WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:01.879 Oh hey, it's the lady next to you at the 2 00:00:01.919 --> 00:00:05.400 salad bar covering up her iceberg lettuce with spring greens. 3 00:00:05.480 --> 00:00:08.720 Ali Ward and this is Ologies, this is big squirrels. 4 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.160 We got marmots, we got groundhogs, we got facts, figures, 5 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:14.960 tongue twisters and scandals. But first, thank you so much 6 00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:17.039 to patrons of the show and make it possible. And 7 00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:19.679 you too can submit your questions before we record, and 8 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:21.960 you can join Patreon for a dollar a month at 9 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:24.440 patreon dot com slash ologies. Thank you to everyone out 10 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:27.359 there in ologies merch fromologies meerch dot com and for 11 00:00:27.519 --> 00:00:30.199 zero dollars you can support us just by leaving a review. 12 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:32.840 And to prove that I read them all, here's one 13 00:00:33.039 --> 00:00:35.799 from the scheming Rat who wrote this show is the best, 14 00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:36.840 not an opinion. 15 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:37.520 Ps. 16 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:39.759 If you hate the swears and stuff, guess what they 17 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.560 write in all caps. She made another podcast just for you. 18 00:00:42.560 --> 00:00:45.840 Go to Smologies. Thank you the scheming Rat for screaming that. 19 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.560 And yes we have devised a classroom save version of Ologies. 20 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:51.079 It's available in its own feed wherever you got podcasts. 21 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:55.399 It's called Smologies Smologies. Also, thank you all the sponsors 22 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:55.560 of the. 23 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:57.159 Show who make it possible for us to donate to 24 00:00:57.159 --> 00:01:00.719 a cause of theologists choosing each week. How are you? 25 00:01:01.399 --> 00:01:05.239 I'm not great a sore throat. I think I'm coming 26 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:06.040 down with cold. 27 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:09.359 Oh no, you should try a vogel sore throat spray. 28 00:01:09.599 --> 00:01:12.280 It's a natural remedy. With ecination and sage, I can 29 00:01:12.319 --> 00:01:15.079 treat symptoms of coals and flus, including sore throats. 30 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:15.719 Perfect. 31 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:17.079 I'd give that a try. 32 00:01:17.120 --> 00:01:19.959 So we leave sore throats symptoms with a vogel, A 33 00:01:20.040 --> 00:01:23.280 keen of four sore throat spray made from echinasia and 34 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:26.959 sage herbs and designed to reach irritated parts of the throat, 35 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:30.239 available from health stores and pharmacies nationwide. 36 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:32.239 Always read the leaflet. 37 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.359 Okay, so marmatology. The word marmot goes back to the 38 00:01:35.439 --> 00:01:38.799 Latin root meaning mountain mouse. And this week we have 39 00:01:38.879 --> 00:01:41.079 a true expert. They did their undergrad at the University 40 00:01:41.079 --> 00:01:43.280 of Colorado Boulder and then went to U See Davis 41 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:46.159 for a master's and a PhD in animal behavior. They 42 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.079 are now a researcher and a professor at UCLA's Department 43 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:52.239 of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology. They've spent years and years 44 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.120 and years studying a complex communication of marmots and integrating 45 00:01:56.159 --> 00:01:59.719 that into conservation efforts to influence environmental policy. And on 46 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.840 a rainy January day here in La a few weeks ago, 47 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:06.920 I got over to the university to lobso questions. First, 48 00:02:08.080 --> 00:02:11.479 just got to UCLA. I'm here to interview the groundhog expert. 49 00:02:11.560 --> 00:02:14.319 I got out of my car and I spilled twenty 50 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:22.840 ounces of cold iced tea onto my crotch. It's so soaked, 51 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:25.879 like it's not a little wet, it's soaked like I 52 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:27.439 had hosed myself off. 53 00:02:28.159 --> 00:02:30.039 This is what happens when you do interviews in person. 54 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.199 Really never know what you're gonna get. Hey, I'm Alie, 55 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.360 you waiting for me? Sorry about my pants. 56 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:41.599 We're already off to a memorable start. But clearly our 57 00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:45.319 ologist and the lovely hollyob in UCLA Media Relations, they 58 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:45.800 were chill. 59 00:02:45.960 --> 00:02:46.840 They were down to clown. 60 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:49.000 We went up to his office where he has all 61 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:52.599 sorts of skulls and marmot art, even a roadkill groundhog 62 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:56.000 that he and his wife, Janice taxidermied themselves, and we 63 00:02:56.080 --> 00:02:59.759 chatted all about the rodent de jour, including how and 64 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:04.039 why we celebrate Groundhog's Day. The Buddhism and paganism of 65 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:07.560 the midwinter slump, Romantic advice you should not take from 66 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.400 a marmot what they are singing into the wind. How 67 00:03:10.400 --> 00:03:13.120 to coexist with one in your garden. Why they don't 68 00:03:13.120 --> 00:03:16.479 get stressed about holiday binging, The real estate layout of 69 00:03:16.520 --> 00:03:18.960 a groundhog layer. What to do if you want a 70 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:22.599 marmot as a pet, Why they're blood boggled. Science and 71 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:26.919 the wandering etymology behind their aliases with animal behaviorist, conservationist, 72 00:03:27.000 --> 00:03:52.000 field biologist, professor and marmatologist doctor Daniel Blumstein, and Blumstein 73 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:56.000 hee him right, Okay, this is news to me as 74 00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:57.360 of about fifteen minutes ago. 75 00:03:58.120 --> 00:03:59.479 A groundhog is a woodchuck. 76 00:04:01.159 --> 00:04:05.159 There are fifteen species of Marmotsky groundhogs are one of 77 00:04:05.199 --> 00:04:08.439 those species. An other name for groundhogs or woodchucks. 78 00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:10.759 I had no idea. I thought they were different animals. 79 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.919 We have a holiday named after them, and it said 80 00:04:12.919 --> 00:04:17.519 about behavior and climate and weather and what's not to 81 00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:18.600 love about woodchucks. 82 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.160 The fact that they are a ven diagram that is 83 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:24.240 just one circle is astounding me. What about whistle pig? 84 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.319 What's up with that? Whistle pig is a common name 85 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:30.920 for some marmots. Okay, people call yellow bellied mormentus whistle pigs, 86 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:34.480 but in general, woodchucks are the least social of the 87 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:39.199 fifteen species of marmots. Babies emerge and then disperse. In 88 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:42.160 their first year of life, they may settle around their mom. 89 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:45.439 And my friend and colleague Chris Mayer at the University 90 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.399 of Maine is studying woodchuck behavior in detail, and it's 91 00:04:48.439 --> 00:04:50.920 shown that there's a little more sociality than most people 92 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:53.319 think about when they look at woodchucks. But the other 93 00:04:53.360 --> 00:04:56.680 species are more social. So I study yellow bellied marmots, 94 00:04:56.800 --> 00:05:00.040 which are socially plastic. And what's really interesting about that 95 00:05:00.199 --> 00:05:03.160 allows us to understand the dynamics of you know, what's 96 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.480 good about being social? Not a lot of things for marmots. 97 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:08.000 We can get into that. The rest of the species 98 00:05:08.199 --> 00:05:10.720 are much more social, and the kids stick around for 99 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.240 a couple of years, and in some cases there's mothers 100 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:17.639 are mating with sons to keep them around and alpine marmots. 101 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.000 You know, you should not use marmots as a model 102 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:24.560 for our behavior. There's all sorts of sort of stuff 103 00:05:24.600 --> 00:05:27.160 going down with marmots. You really want to know I'm. 104 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:31.279 Doing so a groundhog is the type of marmot. Yes, 105 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:34.879 not all marmots are groundhogs. The cactus succulent. Correct, Right, 106 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.959 what's the range of size? Because I picture a groundhog, 107 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:40.079 I picture it like a beefy cat. 108 00:05:40.319 --> 00:05:41.480 They're all about cat size. 109 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:41.920 Okay. 110 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:47.000 The Himalayan marmot Marmoda Himalaniana robusta. I think the robusta 111 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.160 it's not like a beer or a coffee. It's because 112 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:51.720 it's big. But most of them are sort of cat 113 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:54.519 sized animals. But what's the size? I mean they double 114 00:05:54.560 --> 00:05:55.360 their mass every. 115 00:05:55.199 --> 00:05:57.480 Year, right, every year they double. 116 00:05:57.240 --> 00:06:00.759 They hibernate marmots are the biggest of the true hybrid bears. 117 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:05.600 Don't hibernate bears. Estivate bears can't lose enough body heat 118 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:09.160 to properly hibernate, so marmots lose their body heat. Not 119 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:11.040 only that, we did a study where we borrowed animals 120 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:13.800 from the wild, brought them back to the lab, hibernated them, 121 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:15.600 put them back to the wild when we're done with them, 122 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:19.600 and it turns out they actively suppress their metabolism and temperature, 123 00:06:19.720 --> 00:06:23.920 which is super interesting. Yellow bellied marmots are incredibly efficient 124 00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:27.839 hibernators in big ones and the end of the year 125 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:30.560 are about five kilos, which is pretty big. That's a 126 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.160 big cat. They burn when they're in deep torpor. A 127 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:36.519 gram of fata day, a gram. 128 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:38.120 Of fata day, so they got to get chunk up 129 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:39.120 before they hibernate. 130 00:06:39.319 --> 00:06:43.319 Yeah, they So basically, biomedical researchers study mormits in part 131 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:46.879 to understand how you can be obese without having health consequences. 132 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:49.759 So they don't get all the things that we get 133 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:52.720 if we eat like a marmot. Actually marmots are vegetarians, 134 00:06:52.720 --> 00:06:54.360 so maybe we should eat like is. 135 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:56.160 It a difference between white fat and brown fat? 136 00:06:56.399 --> 00:06:58.480 Well, they have both. And my friend who did the 137 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:01.439 researcher on this walter aren't old formally in Germany. It 138 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:03.279 said no, it got more complex than that. But I'll 139 00:07:03.319 --> 00:07:06.000 say the sort of dumb down version that I can understand, 140 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:08.759 and that is that if you're a hibernator, you have 141 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:10.480 to put on two types of fat. You have to 142 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:13.720 put on heating oil and you have to put on insulation. 143 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:17.800 So one of them is easier to burn during the 144 00:07:17.839 --> 00:07:21.959 winter for heating oil, and the other provides that insulation. 145 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:25.399 So what's really interesting is you know, you might think 146 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.600 it's easy to study what an animal eats, It's actually 147 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:30.439 really hard to study when an animal eats. When you 148 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.240 begin thinking about that, these guys are looking for specific 149 00:07:33.360 --> 00:07:37.319 fatty acids, so they eat plants. But plants aren't plants 150 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:40.120 aren't plants, and different parts of the same plant have 151 00:07:40.160 --> 00:07:44.199 different fatty acid compositions. So what they're eating, the specific 152 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:47.879 fatty acids they're eating in a particular ratios are important 153 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:49.920 for putting on these different sorts of body fat. 154 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.199 And walk me back to what exactly is a marmot? 155 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:57.079 Is it a rodent? Is it a what is. 156 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:59.319 A market Well, I would say that the king of rodents, 157 00:07:59.319 --> 00:08:03.160 but copy are the kings of rodents. I love copy bara, 158 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:06.399 But marmots are the kings of the ground squirrels. So 159 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.519 they're related to prairie dogs and ground squirrels a little 160 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.800 less related to tree squirrels. There are lots of species 161 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:16.680 of ground squirrels around the northern hemisphere and some in 162 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.160 the southern hemisphere. Prairie dogs are only in North America, 163 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:23.240 and marmots have a whole Arctic distribution. They're found around 164 00:08:23.279 --> 00:08:25.959 the northern hemisphere but not in the southern hemisphere, so heads. 165 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:26.639 Up a marmot. 166 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:29.519 In general, it's a big, huge ground squirrel that can 167 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:32.639 weigh up to fifteen pounds or seven kilograms. It can 168 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:35.600 be up to two feet long, and there's about fifteen 169 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:36.480 or so species. 170 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:40.879 They're among those. There are little guys, but overall they 171 00:08:40.960 --> 00:08:45.279 live mostly in North America and Eurasia. They're a bit 172 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:47.919 docks and like they have cute little legs. They have 173 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:51.840 a furry little tail if you like charismatic rodents. Also 174 00:08:51.919 --> 00:08:55.799 you can enjoy our Scurritiology episode about squirrels and our 175 00:08:55.919 --> 00:08:59.519 Cape Bearra episode in which we discuss the Pope's decision 176 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:01.559 to class by them as a fish. And then what 177 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:02.440 about groundhogs. 178 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.159 Groundhogs have a really interesting distribution. I think they go 179 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:08.720 down into Georgia and they sort of go a swath 180 00:09:08.840 --> 00:09:12.960 across North America and end up in Fairbanks, Alaska. So 181 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.799 this asocial grumpy marmot and they're a little bigger than 182 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.320 other species. Because they're not efficient hibernators. They lose weight 183 00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:22.320 really quickly, so they get really fat and they lose 184 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.360 a lot of weight. And groundhogs areally cue. They have 185 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:26.440 really big ears. You look at them. I'm like, that's 186 00:09:26.440 --> 00:09:27.039 a groundhog. 187 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.759 And a groundhog is one of the larger, chunkier marmots 188 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:34.000 with this briskly brownish fur. It's got a medium length tail. 189 00:09:34.159 --> 00:09:37.240 It looks kind of like a quaka having a bad day, 190 00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:41.639 just pissy. And Dan also studies yellow bellied marmots, which 191 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:44.039 they are not known for their cowardice. I went down 192 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:46.840 some marmot holes and the origin of that phrase is 193 00:09:47.000 --> 00:09:50.480 widely debated, but it may come from like an old 194 00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:55.679 timey imbalance of humors, meaning someone is jaundice, which is which, 195 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:56.600 So that's kind of mean. 196 00:09:56.600 --> 00:09:58.399 It's pretty cold, speaking. 197 00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:01.720 Of marmots, curl up into And when we hibernated the marmits, 198 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:04.279 it was super interesting. And why was it super interesting 199 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:06.720 Because we went in and we had a power outage, 200 00:10:06.799 --> 00:10:08.519 just like, oh, we better weigh them. And we went 201 00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:12.159 into the hibernation room and pulled them out and they're 202 00:10:12.360 --> 00:10:15.279 wound up in a tight little ball and they feel 203 00:10:15.519 --> 00:10:20.600 like a fuzzy rock. They were cold, they were hard 204 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.559 and stiff, and they were fuzzy. And I don't know 205 00:10:23.600 --> 00:10:25.399 if you've been to the Dead Sea, but it's sort 206 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:28.679 of the same. This doesn't fit my view of physics. Yeah, 207 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:30.440 the dead sea. You walk into the dead sea and 208 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.639 you sit down and you're sitting in the water and floating. 209 00:10:33.840 --> 00:10:38.080 That doesn't fit any fit. Picking up a living furry 210 00:10:38.120 --> 00:10:41.360 stone is not in the physics that I've been taught. 211 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.679 How low does their body temperature get? 212 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.000 So there are ground squirrels, artic ground squirrels that can 213 00:10:47.039 --> 00:10:51.000 get their body temperature below zero celsius, below thirty two. 214 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:53.039 They have anti freeze. Pretty cool? 215 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:59.000 Is anyone studying groundhogs for like biomedical applications. 216 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.519 People are doing nasty things to groundhogs to understand, you know, 217 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:07.840 obesity and how you can be obese without having problems 218 00:11:07.840 --> 00:11:10.200 of obesity. Because they get obese every year they double 219 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:12.480 their masks. They have to put on fat and energy 220 00:11:12.559 --> 00:11:14.759 in order to not eat for seven or eight months. 221 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:20.720 Marmots are kings of escape in captivity. So Marmot meetings 222 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.679 you go and you hang out with all these people 223 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:24.720 from all over the former Soviet Union order the Soviet 224 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:27.000 Union at the time, depending upon when you went. And 225 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.320 one guy and they were using him in Russia Soviet 226 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:35.399 Union for bioweapons research because they harbor some diseases. A 227 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:38.240 lot of them have plague in Europe. But then they 228 00:11:38.279 --> 00:11:41.720 have other things as well. So this one guy was like, 229 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:44.679 oh yeah, my KGB colonel came to me one day 230 00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:48.000 and said, you know, if the marmots break out one 231 00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:51.480 more time, you will be fired. You know. So when 232 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:54.399 we brought these into captivity to borrow them to hibernate them, 233 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:58.360 we put them in stainless steel welded rabbit cages and 234 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.000 the first thing they did was break the stainless steel 235 00:12:01.039 --> 00:12:03.159 wells and break out. So now they're running around this 236 00:12:03.399 --> 00:12:05.799 environmental chamber room and we have to catch them, and 237 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:08.799 they wouldn't hibernate. And my colleague, late Ken Armitage, who 238 00:12:08.799 --> 00:12:11.200 started this long term study that I now try to 239 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.480 keep going. My colleague, basically, we're banging our heads together. 240 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:17.399 Why are they hibernating? We've turned off the lights, we've 241 00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:19.879 turned down the temperature. What's going on? And he came 242 00:12:19.919 --> 00:12:21.480 in one morning and he had an insight, and his 243 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.120 insight was, oh, maybe we need to give them bedding. 244 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:27.120 So they put in some paper towels and the next 245 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:29.240 day they were all curled up and hibernating. They made 246 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:31.799 their little beds, they curled up, they hibernated, and that 247 00:12:31.879 --> 00:12:32.200 was it. 248 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.200 Well, the mattress is soft. Are they getting through steel? 249 00:12:37.080 --> 00:12:39.360 They're rodents. They have teeth and they use them. I'm 250 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:41.799 not putting my fingers into their mouth. Animals bite because 251 00:12:41.799 --> 00:12:43.799 I've been bitten by marmots, yes, you know, and so 252 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:44.879 Marmo's bite. 253 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.320 Have you ever gotten stitches from a marmot? 254 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.440 I'm not gotten stitches, but I'm probably an error what's 255 00:12:51.679 --> 00:12:55.080 probably viewed as an erroneous data point in some CDC database, 256 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:57.559 if there is a CDC anymore. Because I got bitten 257 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:00.320 by a hibernating mormant because we had the power outage 258 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:02.480 and picking them out, and the baby, a pop that 259 00:13:02.559 --> 00:13:04.679 was going through his first hibernation. It was about a 260 00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.240 kiloh and a half. That was very cute, and I 261 00:13:06.279 --> 00:13:08.559 was cuddling it and it had woken up enough that 262 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:10.440 it just took a chunk out of my finger. So 263 00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:11.720 I went to the er for that one. 264 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:14.960 Oh, do you have to worry about any in the 265 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:17.679 US like plague or Rabi's or anything like that. 266 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:23.960 Rabies maybe there's been one groundhog maybe, you know, but 267 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:26.960 they don't really have rabies. Plague is an issue, but 268 00:13:26.960 --> 00:13:30.600 it's not an issue yet, really, so plague came over 269 00:13:30.919 --> 00:13:33.919 from Eurasia. And the reason prey dogs have been so 270 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:36.399 decimated by plague is because they didn't evolve with it. 271 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:39.120 Marmots have evolved with plague, the Eurasian ones have, at least, 272 00:13:39.639 --> 00:13:41.559 so their populations go up and down and they sort 273 00:13:41.600 --> 00:13:43.240 of deal with that. There's a really interesting story about that. 274 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:45.279 I'll tell you in a second. Right now, We're lucky, 275 00:13:45.320 --> 00:13:47.840 but I study them in Gunnison County, Colorado, and Gunnison 276 00:13:47.840 --> 00:13:51.200 County has gunnism pride dogs, and I'm really concerned and 277 00:13:51.240 --> 00:13:53.799 that periodically plague comes and knocks out all the preye dogs. 278 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:59.480 You know, if you're studying prairie dogs, you get plague. Wow, 279 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.080 you people get plague. You study paradogs. But you know that, 280 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:05.679 so you do things to sort of you're aware of 281 00:14:05.720 --> 00:14:09.720 your symptoms. Sometimes you're dousing them with insecticides things like that. 282 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:13.320 Let's just take a quick relaxing break from the horrors 283 00:14:13.320 --> 00:14:15.919 of the news cycle to learn about the plague. So, 284 00:14:16.000 --> 00:14:18.919 marmots have fleas, and fleas can carry plague, which is 285 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:23.639 an illness caused by a bacterium known as your Sinea pestis. 286 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:28.000 It's named after pestilence and a nineteenth century French Swiss 287 00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:30.679 biologist named Alexandra Eerson. 288 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:31.720 Don't worry. 289 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:35.120 You can get many different types of plaque, such as bubonic, 290 00:14:35.440 --> 00:14:38.360 which produces big, festering lumps in your lymph nodes. You 291 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.240 can get septiscemic, which gets into your blood. You can 292 00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:46.879 even get lung plague called pneumonic plague. You can spread 293 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.639 that to others by coughing and stuff. Symptoms of these 294 00:14:49.720 --> 00:14:55.600 three vary, but overall you'll get headaches, weakness, a fever, chills, pneumonia, 295 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.679 bulbous growths, and your extremities may turn black, gish purple. 296 00:15:01.080 --> 00:15:03.440 And the Black Death taking place in the mid thirteen 297 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:06.559 hundreds wiped out up to fifty million Europeans, or about 298 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:08.360 half the continent's population. 299 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.080 Thanks Flees. It also took five. 300 00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:13.919 Hundred years to figure out what bacterium was responsible, and 301 00:15:14.039 --> 00:15:17.480 our buddy Alexandra finally figured it out by, according to 302 00:15:17.519 --> 00:15:22.759 our other friend Wikipedia, obtaining specimens after bribing English sailors 303 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:26.200 responsible for disposing of the bodies of plague victims. Since 304 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.000 the plague never really left us, so we have antibiotics though, 305 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.159 but we don't always have answers such as why marmots 306 00:15:33.200 --> 00:15:36.559 Why and one twenty twenty four paper title different characteristics 307 00:15:36.559 --> 00:15:38.759 of the soil and marmot habitats might be one of 308 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:42.559 the factors influencing your Cinia pestis. So the preferred soil 309 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:46.559 and the mineral content may make things ripe for fleas 310 00:15:46.639 --> 00:15:51.039 and plague, as is our increasingly venus like atmosphere. And 311 00:15:51.120 --> 00:15:53.120 for more on that you can see the twenty twenty 312 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:57.320 three paper titled Climate driven Marmot Plague Dynamics in Mongolia 313 00:15:57.360 --> 00:16:01.960 and China, which this paper bursts fourth from behind the 314 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:03.200 curtains with jazz hands. 315 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.360 It opens. The incidence of plague has rebounded in the Americas, 316 00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:11.799 Asia and Africa alongside rapid globalization and climate change. And 317 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:15.159 if you're wondering what's the most delicious way to contract 318 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:17.679 the plaque, I'd have to say boodog, which is a 319 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.840 traditional Mongolian barbecue method. It involves tucking hot stones into 320 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:23.840 the carcass of the mammal and then cooking it from 321 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.399 the inside out. It's really just an analog to a 322 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:31.200 microwave hot pocket, but it's got more pure ingredients. Because 323 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.720 we have a treatment for plague, but we don't really 324 00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:37.840 have treatments for ultra processed foods and microplastics. More on 325 00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:41.200 those later actually, but yes, while there may be more 326 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:43.399 than one way to skid a groundhog, a lot of 327 00:16:43.399 --> 00:16:47.200 them might involve fleas looking for a new hot host 328 00:16:47.399 --> 00:16:50.120 like yourself. Also, if you love bloodsuckers, we have a 329 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.039 two part episode on ticks and tickborn illnesses, as well 330 00:16:53.080 --> 00:16:56.039 as a two parter on vampire lore and so do 331 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.080 you have to make sure that the fleas are killed 332 00:16:58.279 --> 00:16:58.600 on them? 333 00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:00.799 If they've got people do with pradog in the planes 334 00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:03.120 where they study them, blacktail preadye dogs in Colorado is 335 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.400 they douse every trap with per marith and I think 336 00:17:05.799 --> 00:17:08.240 that sort of kill the fleas and they still get it. 337 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:10.000 Have you gotten plague? Do you know people that have 338 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:10.640 gotten plague? 339 00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:10.920 Yeah? 340 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:12.920 What do you take antibiotic? 341 00:17:13.039 --> 00:17:14.920 Yeah? Yeah, I mean as long as you know that 342 00:17:15.000 --> 00:17:18.640 you're exposed to it, you're probably gonna be Okay, Like, can. 343 00:17:18.559 --> 00:17:19.799 You imagine just being like. 344 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.160 Hiey, I came home with the plague. 345 00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:26.400 From a prairie dog. Okay, so it already sounds like 346 00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:32.000 your fieldwork is bananas. How often are you out and 347 00:17:32.039 --> 00:17:34.720 about in the field. I also just out of the 348 00:17:34.759 --> 00:17:36.799 corner of my eye saw that you have a Marmot's 349 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:39.680 license plate from Kansas? Is it was that from your car? 350 00:17:39.839 --> 00:17:42.960 And Colorado and California and California. 351 00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:47.160 The best ologists, I feel like their license plate is 352 00:17:47.319 --> 00:17:51.839 their study species. Like we had a toothologist squids license plate. 353 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.240 There's a guy I've been trying to get on who's 354 00:17:54.279 --> 00:17:57.640 in the remote reaches outside of Albuquerque who studies skunks. 355 00:17:58.119 --> 00:18:01.119 Lisus plate skunks. So so I do feel like that 356 00:18:01.240 --> 00:18:04.559 is the highest, Like that's top tier ologist. 357 00:18:05.119 --> 00:18:07.000 I'm not going in the skunk ologist car. 358 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.519 I know it's this poor subaru outback is probably choking 359 00:18:12.559 --> 00:18:15.400 its way down the road. But when it comes to 360 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.359 your your field work, has it taken you all over? 361 00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:23.119 And is it taken you to Paksatani phil Like have 362 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.279 you been to groundhowk celebrations. 363 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:30.000 Ah, that's a sore point. I have not been to Poksatani. 364 00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:31.920 Shocking. 365 00:18:32.279 --> 00:18:34.880 Yeah, I know it is, I, you know, wants to 366 00:18:34.880 --> 00:18:36.759 hang out with a bunch of drunk people in top 367 00:18:36.759 --> 00:18:39.440 hats or whatever. But the good but well it's cold. 368 00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:41.480 But ye, with climate change, maybe I will go to 369 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.759 Pusatani because it'll be warmer soon in the winter the 370 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:47.960 last Yeah, I've worked all over the world. I'm been 371 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:51.799 incredibly blessed to work pretty much everywhere, and I've worked 372 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.519 with eight of the you know, fifteen species of marmots 373 00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:55.880 all around the Northern hemisphere. 374 00:18:56.680 --> 00:18:58.200 What do you think of grand hok kay? 375 00:18:58.559 --> 00:19:03.279 I think it's an opportunity to celebrate animal behavior and 376 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:07.640 educate people about animals and have a good time. 377 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:10.839 So for years, Dan's lab has hosted, of course, Groundhog 378 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.720 Day parties at the university and at one point has 379 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.599 been interviewed by the La Times on how to celebrate it. 380 00:19:16.839 --> 00:19:20.200 He told one newspaper outlet that his souarees involve science 381 00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:23.960 geeks at his UCLA lab gathered to nibble, schmooze and 382 00:19:24.039 --> 00:19:28.480 revel in groundhoggery in all its magnificent splendor. Okay, so 383 00:19:28.640 --> 00:19:33.799 what is happening in Groundhog's Day? They are hibernating? Are 384 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:34.799 they in a burrow? 385 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:35.000 Like? 386 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:37.839 How deep are these groundhogs chilling out? 387 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.920 So Groundhog Day? So, I mean, you know, culturally, we 388 00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.880 build holidays on previous holidays, and Groundhog Days half the 389 00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:50.799 way between winter solstice and spring equinox, and the Pagans 390 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.720 had a holiday to sort of celebrate the coming of spring. 391 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.119 And I guess in you know, northern Europe, they realized 392 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:03.720 their hibernators around there, and they were living close to hedgehogs, 393 00:20:04.160 --> 00:20:07.119 and hedgehogs hibernate, so you know, they were using hedgehogs 394 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.039 as this idea of predicting how long the rest of 395 00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.640 the winter would be. So when the Pennsylvania Deutsch the 396 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:18.599 Germans came to Pittsburgh area, they were looking for an 397 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:23.720 analogy and they realized that woodshogs groundhogs were hibernating and 398 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:27.079 maybe they could be predict the winter. But the idea 399 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:31.200 is that if it's sunny, then there must be a 400 00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:34.920 high pressure system. So if the groundhog sees its shadow, 401 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:38.440