1
00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,719
Speaker 1: Come, what up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's

2
00:00:34,759 --> 00:00:37,439
Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me

3
00:00:37,679 --> 00:00:42,520
Paul Abernathy anything you want about the National Electrical Code

4
00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:44,840
and all things electrically related. All you got to do

5
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,719
is go to Paul Abernathy dot com. It's free, doesn't

6
00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:51,600
cost you a dime, and you just go there, put

7
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,119
in your information, click the button and guess what It

8
00:00:54,159 --> 00:00:56,880
comes to me and I will answer your question, either

9
00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,640
in an email back to you or in a podcast,

10
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,079
So be aware of that. If you'd like me to

11
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,120
use your name in the podcast, give you a shout out,

12
00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,040
please let me know. Otherwise I will not share your name.

13
00:01:09,359 --> 00:01:12,239
But either way, I do my best to answer questions

14
00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,079
for you. Again, we do get a backlog of these

15
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,079
because I, as you can imagine, as an educator and

16
00:01:18,159 --> 00:01:20,640
somebody who puts themselves out there all the time, I

17
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,200
get a lot of requests and so I try to

18
00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,560
pick what I can and what I think will be educational.

19
00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,439
But I do try to respond to all emails. Now,

20
00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,000
you may not get it because it goes in your

21
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,079
junk mail. So if you did send something in and

22
00:01:34,079 --> 00:01:36,920
you haven't gotten response within a week or two, then

23
00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:39,680
maybe you've better reach back out because it's a high

24
00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,920
probability that I sent it and you just didn't get it. Okay,

25
00:01:43,079 --> 00:01:47,879
just kind of making that clear, right, all right, So everybody,

26
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,799
thanks for joining us here on the podcast again. You

27
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:52,719
can listen to all of our podcasts if you weren't

28
00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,519
aware of this. By the way, we have over a

29
00:01:55,599 --> 00:02:00,000
thousand plus podcast episodes available, and we have three different

30
00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:03,359
podcast shows if you didn't know this, So we have

31
00:02:03,519 --> 00:02:07,719
Master the ANYCA podcast, we have Let's Ask Paul podcast,

32
00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,319
and we also have a podcast called Electrify, but that's

33
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,520
just a rebroadcast, so it shares all of these episodes

34
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:17,000
together in one location. So the main podcasts are the

35
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:22,960
Let's Ask Paul podcast and the Master the ANYC podcast.

36
00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:25,240
That's the main one that we've been doing for a

37
00:02:25,319 --> 00:02:29,439
long time. It's over a thousand episodes and there's still

38
00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,520
most of them are still relevant, all types of topics.

39
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,039
You just kind of gotta gotta weed through them and

40
00:02:35,159 --> 00:02:37,080
kind of listen to them and see what the titles

41
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,400
are and things like that. And of course our newest podcast,

42
00:02:41,039 --> 00:02:45,400
which is the Bond and Ground podcast, and so that

43
00:02:45,599 --> 00:02:48,879
is up to I think seven episodes. Now we just

44
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,879
started that podcast. Ruffled some feathers with that podcast already.

45
00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,800
You know, people that don't like when I call things out,

46
00:02:56,879 --> 00:02:58,919
but you know, it is what it is. That's my job.

47
00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:02,360
I'm here to uh just spill myths. I'm not here

48
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,159
to personally contact an author of something that they may

49
00:03:05,199 --> 00:03:07,240
publish and try to correct them because you know what,

50
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,439
that's their piece of work. They may be offended by it.

51
00:03:09,759 --> 00:03:11,960
So if I'm going to offend them, then I'm just

52
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,479
gonna offend them the way I know how to offend them,

53
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,919
and that's through my body of work. Whether they like

54
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,919
it or not, it is what it is, Okay, anyway,

55
00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:26,879
check out those podcasts podcasts. Dude, I'm tongue tied today.

56
00:03:27,039 --> 00:03:28,680
This could be a tough one folks, So I could.

57
00:03:28,879 --> 00:03:31,400
I might not make it through this podcast today. I

58
00:03:31,439 --> 00:03:33,439
don't know what man tongue tied. You know, I don't

59
00:03:33,479 --> 00:03:36,039
do repeats, so we were gonna make it through it anyway.

60
00:03:37,159 --> 00:03:40,520
So check those podcasts out. They're also available. If you

61
00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,240
didn't know this, and you you had to. If you've

62
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,919
listened to my podcast before, you've had to know this

63
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:51,120
that all of my podcasts are available, on our mobile app.

64
00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:53,400
It's a free app. I mean, I'm not going to

65
00:03:53,479 --> 00:03:56,280
push any products down your throat. You just go to

66
00:03:56,879 --> 00:04:01,639
a fast tracks system and that is FA S T

67
00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:07,639
T R A X S Y S T E M

68
00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:12,280
dot com. But it's all one word fast trackssystem dot com.

69
00:04:12,919 --> 00:04:16,399
And if you go there in the navigational structure, however,

70
00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:18,519
you know how you maneuver around a website, you'll see

71
00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,240
a link in there for the mobile app. Just go

72
00:04:20,319 --> 00:04:22,959
there and download the mobile app. Say yes, it's not

73
00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,240
gonna put any firmware in your phone, it's not going

74
00:04:25,319 --> 00:04:28,480
to put any bloat. Twere all it is is basically

75
00:04:28,519 --> 00:04:31,160
giving permission for us to be able to share the

76
00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:36,199
information with you through a mobile type of web based app.

77
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,399
So you're not going to be putting junk on your phone.

78
00:04:38,439 --> 00:04:39,920
You're not going to go to the app store, the

79
00:04:39,959 --> 00:04:42,319
Google Store, You're not gonna do that crap. So we'll

80
00:04:42,399 --> 00:04:45,720
update it ad things, ad features, and you don't even

81
00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:48,040
know it. It just happens naturally because it's in the cloud.

82
00:04:48,519 --> 00:04:50,480
That's the more modern way to do it, and that's

83
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:53,279
how we do our apps. That way, they're always up

84
00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:56,120
to date. So anyway, make sure you check that out.

85
00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,639
That's a great way. Plus you can look at you

86
00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:59,800
can read blogs on there. You can even come to

87
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:03,399
the coffee hour we do every morning Monday through Friday.

88
00:05:03,439 --> 00:05:06,079
We do a coffee hour and we talk about all

89
00:05:06,199 --> 00:05:09,319
kinds of things. We give shout outs to folks that

90
00:05:09,399 --> 00:05:11,360
join us. We have a great bunch of people that

91
00:05:11,439 --> 00:05:14,120
follow us every morning. It's a great way to get

92
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,959
your day started. And I don't know of anybody else

93
00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,199
that's doing a live show every day, five days a week.

94
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:21,959
We've been doing it now since the first of the

95
00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:24,759
year and here we are in June, so we're six

96
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,680
months in. We have quite a few podcast episode, I

97
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:33,639
mean video episodes and things like that, so AnyWho, if

98
00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,399
you're interested in checking that out, please do check that out.

99
00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,480
You can also see any of the replays of those episodes,

100
00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:44,360
by the way, and it will say replay. Typically happens

101
00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:47,639
every day at five o'clock we play the replay. But

102
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,839
you can go to our YouTube channel as well. Slowly

103
00:05:50,879 --> 00:05:53,959
they will be moved over to our fast tracks tube platform.

104
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,040
But again by popular demand. People like them on YouTube,

105
00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:00,959
so they are on YouTube to watch and they will

106
00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:03,560
say replay. Just make sure you read the description to

107
00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,759
make sure it's the content that you're interested in, and

108
00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:08,959
we do our best to try to explain that a

109
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,720
little bit. But at the end of the day, the

110
00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:13,959
title is going to say the most right. The title

111
00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:15,759
is going to be really the thing that you're going

112
00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:18,439
to hone in on. Okay, anyway, so today we have

113
00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,560
a question that was submitted and I'm want to make

114
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,639
sure I answer this question. I did for The Gentleman

115
00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,519
by the Way in an email. But the reason I'm

116
00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,759
answering this question is because it got me thinking about

117
00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:32,800
rule of thumbs. It got me thinking about when we

118
00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,560
say something to somebody in the electrical industry, that we

119
00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,439
assume that they know what we're talking about. And that

120
00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:43,680
is not always the case, even for me, when people

121
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,519
will send me something like a question and I will

122
00:06:46,519 --> 00:06:49,680
look at it and they may use an acronym or

123
00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,399
something that I'm just not familiar with, and so when

124
00:06:53,439 --> 00:06:55,000
I look at it and I'm like, Okay, what the hell

125
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,879
are they talking about? And I have to think about it. Well.

126
00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,800
I also understand that we as an industry and folks

127
00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,879
that have maybe more knowledge than others may share things

128
00:07:06,199 --> 00:07:10,199
in podcasts and videos and lessons and training and maybe

129
00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:14,199
even use rule of thumbs. And ultimately, at the end

130
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:18,160
of the day, the student or the viewer doesn't understand

131
00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:20,800
what they're talking about, so we have to do better.

132
00:07:20,879 --> 00:07:24,120
I have to do better. I am certainly not perfect.

133
00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,319
I make mistakes all the time. And again, the difference

134
00:07:27,319 --> 00:07:29,560
between me and many others is I'm very vocal, I'm

135
00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:32,600
very out there. I'm in the public. I put things

136
00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,519
out there. I put myself out there, and so I'm

137
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,040
there to be critiqued. I have my content tore up

138
00:07:41,079 --> 00:07:43,680
all the time on various Facebook groups, and that's okay.

139
00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:46,160
I don't have any problem with it. Doesn't does not

140
00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,279
hurt me. I don't need to go defend my honor

141
00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,959
or whatnot. You know, I'll tell people that I will.

142
00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,160
I will debate with anybody if you can prove I'm

143
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,560
wrong and teach me something, dude, I love it. I

144
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,000
won't get offended. But you have to be able to

145
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,399
not give your opinion. You have to be able to

146
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,079
articulate it out, improve your point. And then if I

147
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:09,639
look at it and go, you know, hey, I agree,

148
00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,199
you're right, you're right, I'm wrong, you're right, I'll be

149
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,720
the first to admit it. But I will tell you

150
00:08:14,839 --> 00:08:17,720
that doesn't happen all the time. Most people go hiding

151
00:08:17,759 --> 00:08:20,639
off in a corner somewhere and they give their opinion

152
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:25,079
of something, but they don't they don't want to have

153
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,040
a debate about it. And I get it, and I

154
00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:29,439
don't do that either. If I'm going to critique something,

155
00:08:29,959 --> 00:08:32,440
I'm not here to educate the author of something. I'm

156
00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,759
here to give my commentary, give my opinion. They can

157
00:08:34,879 --> 00:08:37,039
like it or not, they can agree to disagree, and

158
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,440
they can move on. That's just the way I do it.

159
00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:42,240
So again, I understand it. You can agree to disagree

160
00:08:42,279 --> 00:08:43,919
with me. You can say I'm full of shit, the

161
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:46,080
worst educator in the world. You can be a hater.

162
00:08:46,519 --> 00:08:49,080
That's fine too. Doesn't bother me. I do not lose

163
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,000
sleep at night, Trust me, I do not. I've been

164
00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:54,120
blessed in this industry that I don't have to worry

165
00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:57,679
about that now. I am in a good place and

166
00:08:57,799 --> 00:09:00,639
so at the end of the day, don't worry about it.

167
00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:02,639
You say what you want to say. It makes you

168
00:09:02,639 --> 00:09:05,759
feel better. But if you're learning something, that's all that's

169
00:09:05,879 --> 00:09:09,600
that's the motivation to learn something. Now, today's episode not

170
00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:12,960
talking about rule of thumbs. I'm gonna read you this

171
00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:16,559
question that was submitted and I will answer it. And

172
00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:20,240
it's going to be quick. It's not going to be uh,

173
00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,679
you know, this is not going to be a long

174
00:09:21,759 --> 00:09:24,519
podcast today hopefully, and so I'm going to read this

175
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,919
to you. So let me read this. It says, here's

176
00:09:27,919 --> 00:09:30,200
the question. The gentleman sent the question. It says, I'm

177
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:34,279
looking for the two foot four foot rule for receptacle

178
00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:38,559
wall countertop spacing. In two ten fifty two C one.

179
00:09:39,039 --> 00:09:42,919
It says, I see the two foot rule receptacle outlets

180
00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,120
shall be installed so that no point along the wall

181
00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:49,120
line is more than twenty four inches, But I don't

182
00:09:49,159 --> 00:09:53,039
see the four foot rule spacing between each receptacle. Can

183
00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,960
you point me in the right direction? Okay, So that

184
00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,120
is the question. Now this is a pretty easy one

185
00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:01,759
because I can explain that you got it right. It

186
00:10:01,919 --> 00:10:04,000
says that at no point on the walls or I'm

187
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,600
talking of countertop now in a kitchen. Let's just keep

188
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,159
it simple. Take countertop in a kitchen. The wall spacing

189
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,080
where the counter is connected to the wall. The spacing

190
00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:15,960
is at no point along the wall line of the counter.

191
00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:21,279
Can you be more than two feet from a receptacle outlet. Now,

192
00:10:22,399 --> 00:10:25,559
the thing about that is, if I go for one

193
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,000
receptacle outlet and I go four feet to the next

194
00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:33,559
receptacle outlet on that countertop, if I touch the wall

195
00:10:33,639 --> 00:10:35,919
in the middle of those two, am I not within

196
00:10:36,039 --> 00:10:38,320
twenty four inches or two feet of the receptacle on

197
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,840
the left? Am I not within two feet of the

198
00:10:41,879 --> 00:10:45,960
receptacle on the right. So anywhere on that wall that

199
00:10:46,039 --> 00:10:48,759
I touch between these receptacles, I'm going to be within

200
00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:52,600
twenty four inches of a receptacle outlet. That is the

201
00:10:53,039 --> 00:10:55,759
notion that that is what the code is saying. The

202
00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:58,559
same thing applies to the six foot twelve foot rule

203
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,519
that you hear us talk about when it comes to

204
00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,919
two ten fifty two A, so that no point along

205
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,639
the wall line in a room can be more than

206
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,200
six feet from a receptacle outlet. So the maximum spacing

207
00:11:10,279 --> 00:11:13,879
between receptacles on a wall, if you're doing the wall spacing,

208
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,720
is twelve feet, right, Because if you touch the wall

209
00:11:16,879 --> 00:11:20,159
right in the middle of these two receptacle outlets, then

210
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,240
you need to be within six feet of the receptacle

211
00:11:22,279 --> 00:11:26,120
on the left. In six feet of receptacle on the right. Okay,

212
00:11:26,639 --> 00:11:29,879
so those are rule of thumbs. You hear us say

213
00:11:29,879 --> 00:11:32,320
two foot four foot rule, But basically it's a minimum

214
00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,919
maximum rule. We're saying the maximum between receptacle outlets is

215
00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,600
in a kitchen countertop, for example, is four feet because

216
00:11:39,639 --> 00:11:44,240
if you space them four feet apart, maximum, anywhere in

217
00:11:44,279 --> 00:11:47,720
the wall that you would touch between them would put

218
00:11:47,759 --> 00:11:51,720
you within two feet or twenty four inches of a

219
00:11:51,799 --> 00:11:56,000
receptacle outlet, as demanded per the National Electric Code. So

220
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,200
we call it a two foot four foot rule. But

221
00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,279
at the end of the day, it just talks about

222
00:12:02,639 --> 00:12:05,799
a point on the wall line so that it's not

223
00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,000
more than two feet from a receptacle outlet. So logically,

224
00:12:10,159 --> 00:12:13,320
if you space them four feet apart and you go

225
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:15,960
right dab in the middle, you're gonna be within two

226
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,720
feet of the receptacle on the left two feet of

227
00:12:17,759 --> 00:12:20,000
the receptacle on the right. You're gonna comply with the

228
00:12:20,039 --> 00:12:23,000
fact that there's a receptacle within twenty four inches of

229
00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,240
any point on that wall. It's just a maximum rule,

230
00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:28,159
and we just shortcut it by saying two foot four

231
00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:30,919
foot rule. You're not gonna find that verbage in there.

232
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,360
You have to understand it by how I explained it

233
00:12:35,399 --> 00:12:39,519
and saying, oh, I get it. So the receptacles can't

234
00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,320
be more than four feet apart, otherwise they wouldn't comply

235
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,080
with the twenty four inch rule. That's right. Same with

236
00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:51,000
the wall. Two receptacles twelve feet apart. The midpoint is

237
00:12:51,039 --> 00:12:53,279
going to be six feet from this receptacle. Six feet

238
00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,759
from that receptacle, we meet the rule. And no point

239
00:12:55,799 --> 00:12:58,320
on the wall line am I more than six feet

240
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:04,279
from a receptacle makes sense? So that's the rule of thumb,

241
00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:06,840
and one of the rule of thumbs. We have quite

242
00:13:06,879 --> 00:13:11,000
a few rule of thumbs, but that is the basic one.

243
00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:14,039
When you hear somebody talk about two foot four foot rule,

244
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,919
that is what they're talking about. So you're not gonna

245
00:13:18,159 --> 00:13:20,360
see the reference to four feet in there. You just

246
00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,559
have to understand the concept of what we're trying to achieve. Okay,

247
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:26,279
So for now on, if you ever hear that six

248
00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:30,000
foot twelve foot, two foot four foot, you now understand

249
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,559
that the maximum distance between receptacles is four feet on

250
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,519
a counter or kitchen counter, for example, wall space requirement

251
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,960
two ten to fifty two C one. And then when

252
00:13:40,039 --> 00:13:42,360
it comes to the wall space requirement. You have the

253
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,720
six foot twelve foot rule. Twelve foot is the six

254
00:13:44,759 --> 00:13:47,240
foot is the distance from any point on the wall

255
00:13:47,279 --> 00:13:49,720
line two receptacles. I'll let twelve foot is the maximum

256
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,200
distance between receptacles. You could be less than that. Again,

257
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,799
it's all about design. But the maximum distance twelve feet,

258
00:13:55,919 --> 00:13:58,799
so that any point on that wall line is within

259
00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:02,039
six feet of a receptacle. That is the concept. So

260
00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,799
that's why we call them six foot twelve foot two

261
00:14:03,799 --> 00:14:06,639
foot four foot rule makes sense, all right, So that's

262
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,159
what that is. Okay, So hopefully I answered that question.

263
00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:10,879
Let's see if we have another one that we can

264
00:14:10,919 --> 00:14:13,960
answer today. Okay, I don't know if this is a

265
00:14:14,039 --> 00:14:17,279
question or not. A gentlemen sent this in. He says,

266
00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:20,080
this isn't a question. It's a response to your call

267
00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,919
to action at the end of episode five of Your

268
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,720
Bonding Ground podcast. Okay, I like this. I like when

269
00:14:27,759 --> 00:14:30,840
people give comments too. It's not just to ask questions, guys,

270
00:14:30,879 --> 00:14:33,440
I do read them. Okay. Whether you hate me, love me,

271
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:35,519
want to flame me, doesn't matter. If you feel like

272
00:14:35,559 --> 00:14:38,759
you're hurting me personally by saying something shitty, you're not

273
00:14:38,879 --> 00:14:42,399
hurting me. I don't care. I really don't. You don't change,

274
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,159
you don't affect my life. But I do love it

275
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,759
when people do send comments and give thoughts and praise,

276
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,200
or they love something or they give I mean, I look,

277
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:54,879
I read them all. So this one is based on

278
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,320
I guess it was episode five I can't remember of

279
00:14:57,320 --> 00:15:01,000
my New Bonding Ground podcast where I talked about do

280
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,720
you like the long content? I mean, do you like

281
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,519
episodes that are forty five minutes an hour? Because most

282
00:15:07,519 --> 00:15:10,720
people feel like they can't hold their attention span to

283
00:15:10,759 --> 00:15:14,679
more than fifteen minutes to twenty minutes, and so you

284
00:15:14,679 --> 00:15:16,919
know what. I'm not about the clicks. So I'm not

285
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,799
here to worry about whether or not people follow because

286
00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:23,080
I'm too long winded. I don't give a shit about that.

287
00:15:23,639 --> 00:15:25,679
But I want to make sure you're getting content that

288
00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:30,559
you want. So he states that he says, I really

289
00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,279
appreciate the deep dive into article two fifty. It's a

290
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:38,399
large and important topic with a lot of misconceptions about it.

291
00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:43,039
I've been binging the podcast all week since finding it.

292
00:15:43,519 --> 00:15:48,080
I am an apprentice with an hour long commute, so

293
00:15:48,159 --> 00:15:52,919
the longer the better. Cool. Hey, let me tell you, dude,

294
00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:56,159
if you really want to remember, go look for our

295
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,799
other podcasts if you really want to have enough material

296
00:15:58,879 --> 00:16:01,840
for your commute. Dude, I have over a thousand plus

297
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:08,039
episodes Master the NEC podcast or the Let's Ask Paul

298
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,840
podcasts like this one. So that is one of those things.

299
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:17,279
And again just remember that all you've got to do

300
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,840
is get our mobile app and you can actually stream

301
00:16:19,879 --> 00:16:23,320
straight to your vehicles Bluetooth straight from our mobile app.

302
00:16:23,559 --> 00:16:25,440
We have a one click get you right to the

303
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,720
podcast episodes right inside of the mobile app. That's the

304
00:16:28,759 --> 00:16:31,519
easy way to do it. Or you can use Spotify, Spreaker, Deezer,

305
00:16:31,559 --> 00:16:36,919
iHeart Apple podcast, Google Podcasts, whatever platform you want to listen.

306
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,639
That's that's you. That's up to you. I listen to

307
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:40,440
a lot of stuff on Spotify, by the way, so

308
00:16:40,799 --> 00:16:43,639
we're on Spotify as well. Just make sure you search

309
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:49,840
for our podcast name right master the NEC podcast or

310
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:56,039
Let's Ask Paul podcast or the new one, the Bond

311
00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:01,159
and Ground podcast. Okay, so again, welcome, glad to have

312
00:17:01,279 --> 00:17:03,559
you listening. And you bet it, I'm long winded, so

313
00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:06,559
you'll like my approach to teaching because I am redundant

314
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,160
and long winded. See what else we got Okay. The

315
00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,759
next question that we have says, good morning, Paul. In

316
00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:17,799
a dwelling unit with a fire sprinkler system and a

317
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:20,759
fire bell, does the fire bell have to be on

318
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:23,960
a dedicated circuit and does it have to comply with

319
00:17:24,039 --> 00:17:28,759
the National Electrical Code Article seven sixty and NFPA seventy two.

320
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,680
These homes do not have a communications system to the

321
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:35,400
fire department. It's just a fire bell. It appears to

322
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,160
be a lot of confusion with this requirement, and I

323
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,279
would like to hear your opinion. Thanks in advance. Okay, well,

324
00:17:42,319 --> 00:17:46,039
this is going to be my opinion. Okay, so take

325
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:48,680
it for whatever it's worth. Article seven to sixty of

326
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,440
the National Legical Code talks about fire alarm systems. Let's

327
00:17:53,519 --> 00:17:59,039
not confuse a fire alarm system with a possible localized

328
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,160
reporting system. In other words, it may be a standalone

329
00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,160
bell on a circuit that is simply required by the

330
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,920
local jurisdiction and it is not a fire alarm system.

331
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,839
I can't be the one to determine that. So you

332
00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,319
have to determine with them, is what you have a

333
00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:17,960
fire alarm system. If you read seven sixty and you

334
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,960
look at the scope of seven sixty. You have to

335
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:22,960
look at it and say, do I have a fire

336
00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,720
alarm system or do I simply have a sprinkler system,

337
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,880
which may or may not be optional or required by

338
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,799
the jurisdiction. But is the horn is simply a notification

339
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:37,759
and it doesn't actually mean that it is a fire

340
00:18:37,799 --> 00:18:42,160
alarm system, because if it's not a fire alarm system,

341
00:18:42,759 --> 00:18:46,640
it is simply something that may be just a standalone

342
00:18:46,799 --> 00:18:53,000
bell circuit that is to notify, okay when the sprinkler

343
00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,640
system goes off. If it's not, and I can't tell

344
00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:58,880
you it is. I don't know enough about the sprinkler system.

345
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,559
You didn't give me enough detail, You didn't tell me

346
00:19:00,559 --> 00:19:03,359
whether the jurisdiction requires it, if it has a control

347
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,920
panel to really be constituted as a fire alarm system.

348
00:19:08,079 --> 00:19:10,680
So it probably is not a fire alarm system. It's

349
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,920
simply a standalone notification for the sprinkler system, and it

350
00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,920
doesn't qualify as a fire alarm system. Again, looking at NFPA,

351
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,720
looking at NPA seventy two, talking with the AHJA again,

352
00:19:24,759 --> 00:19:29,359
I have seen sprinkler systems which are not fire alarm systems.

353
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,799
They are simply notification systems, So they would not have

354
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,759
to meet the requirements of seven sixty of the National

355
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:41,640
Electrical Code, so they would not require a dedicated circuit. Now,

356
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,400
I strongly recommend it because we want to make sure

357
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:47,240
that people don't turn it off, that it stays on.

358
00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,200
This is a matter of life and death. YadA, YadA, YadA.

359
00:19:50,319 --> 00:19:53,039
But as far as the National Electrical Code, unless something

360
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:58,839
in the instructions from the manufacturer of this whatever the

361
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,799
system is, or this whole or whatever bell, if they

362
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,640
demand it, that's one thing. But I don't think it is.

363
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,640
In my opinion, I don't know that this is a

364
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:13,400
fire alarm system. They think it's a notification, standalone notification

365
00:20:13,599 --> 00:20:16,759
for the sprinkler, and so again you'll have to check

366
00:20:16,799 --> 00:20:21,240
with the HJ. Now, if it was a fire alarm system,

367
00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,000
and this is typically going to be let's say, a

368
00:20:24,039 --> 00:20:26,160
hornets applied by one hundred and twenty vold circuit, so

369
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:31,119
that's considered what's called non power limited fire alarm. If

370
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,480
it was. If I'm saying if it was, and if

371
00:20:33,519 --> 00:20:36,359
that's the case, you have to follow seven sixty dot

372
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,160
forty one B. Okay, so seven sixty forty one B

373
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:44,720
would tell you that you have to have the individual

374
00:20:44,759 --> 00:20:47,240
brand circuit. It's going to tell you how to identify

375
00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:51,200
it and fire fire alarm circuit and red letters and

376
00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,440
all this, YadA, YadA, YadA. But the language says that

377
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,400
it has a fire alarm control unit. If there isn't one,

378
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,279
then you don't have a fire alarm control unit. It

379
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:08,119
may be simply a local alerting appliance. And so if

380
00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:10,839
that's the case, it is not a fire alarm system

381
00:21:11,039 --> 00:21:14,400
per the NEC or an FPA seventy two. So that's

382
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:16,920
why it so important to work with the HJA and

383
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,559
see what it is. Now if you do have a

384
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,079
fire alarm system and they quantify this as a fire

385
00:21:23,079 --> 00:21:25,319
alarm system and you get clarity from them if they

386
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:27,759
tell you they're the HJ. If they say, yes, this

387
00:21:27,839 --> 00:21:30,880
is a fire alarm system, then your question to them is, well,

388
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,720
where's the fire alarm control unit to require the dedicated

389
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:37,160
circuit in accordance with seven to sixty forty one B

390
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:39,680
so that I can market accordingly. They say, well, just

391
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,079
do it at the breaker in a panel. And you're like, well,

392
00:21:42,079 --> 00:21:44,200
wait a minute, are you telling me that the breaker

393
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,079
in the panel is the fire alarm control unit, because

394
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:49,640
that's not the definition of a fire alarm control unit.

395
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,640
When we look at n FPA seventy two, that's not

396
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,880
what it is. And so I don't know how the

397
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,559
systems interact. I don't know how the sprinklers interact with

398
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,039
the horn and do it does it go through a

399
00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,839
fire alarm control unit or is it just a power

400
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,640
to the horn and the horn has some kind of

401
00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:10,200
power limiting controls that go over to the actual sprinkler

402
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,160
system or the flow switch. And this is basically just

403
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,279
a localized alerting system. If that's what it is, then

404
00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:20,960
that does not Again, that does not make it a

405
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,240
fire alarm system, okay, because a fire alarm system involves

406
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:32,079
initiating devices, control equipment, and notification appliances installed per NFPA

407
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,160
seventy two. If you have that, if this is what

408
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,160
you have, and you have a fire alarm control unit

409
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:43,519
that is going to control all these functions, okay, then

410
00:22:43,559 --> 00:22:46,519
in that scenario, then you do have requirements for a

411
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,440
individual circuit that's not going to have anything on it,

412
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,039
but that fire alarm system that's going to all be

413
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:56,039
covered under seven sixty forty one B and you're going

414
00:22:56,079 --> 00:22:58,799
to follow those rules. But you have to follow what

415
00:22:58,839 --> 00:23:01,640
the manufacturers say, and again the manufacture of the bill,

416
00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:05,759
they may be able to give you way more insight

417
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,319
on what this is and whether this is actually a

418
00:23:08,319 --> 00:23:12,039
fire alarm system. And if it is, then yes, you'd

419
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,799
have to have that dedicated circuit. You would have to

420
00:23:14,839 --> 00:23:17,680
have the red markings and the labeling and all for

421
00:23:17,799 --> 00:23:22,839
restricted access, right and all those type of things. So again,

422
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,200
definitely double check with the HJ. Don't get in a

423
00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:34,400
pissing match. Determine first whether you have a fire alarm system.

424
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:39,319
Is that sprinkler going to control to a flow, goes

425
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:43,240
to a fire alarm control unit and you're just supplying

426
00:23:43,319 --> 00:23:48,440
power to the horn from the actual pound Okay, then

427
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,480
you know in that case if it is part of

428
00:23:51,839 --> 00:23:54,640
that horn alone, if that's supplied by the one twenty

429
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,039
for example, that alone does not constitute that it is

430
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:04,160
a fire alarm system. Okay. So again it's going to

431
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,920
be so important for you to dissect it down. Okay.

432
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,359
So now, just as a bottom line to a dedicated breaker,

433
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,920
dedicated circuit, I'd probably recommend it just because of the

434
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,039
nature of it, but it's not required if it's not

435
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,680
a fire alarm system. The markings fire alarm circuit markings

436
00:24:22,759 --> 00:24:26,119
not required, unless, of course, it is a fire alarm system,

437
00:24:27,079 --> 00:24:30,680
those those type of things, and you do not have

438
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:35,000
to meet Article seven sixty. If it's a standalone bell,

439
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:41,599
it's not a system, then seven sixty doesn't apply. That's it.

440
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,920
If the bell just gets actuated and this applies power

441
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,000
to it, and it just gets actuated when there's a flow,

442
00:24:48,279 --> 00:24:51,119
and there's no fire alarm control unit anywhere, then I

443
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,440
would argue that it's not a fire alarm system. But

444
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:55,160
you're gonna have to work with your local age j

445
00:24:55,599 --> 00:24:58,119
So again, I'm pretty sure that I'm not going to

446
00:24:58,119 --> 00:25:01,519
be the one that that answers question for you, because

447
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:05,319
I don't know enough about your system. And it makes

448
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:07,559
me believe that since the only thing that you have

449
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,920
in there there's no integrated fire control unit, there's a

450
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:16,240
fire alarm control unit, there is no smoke detectors that

451
00:25:16,319 --> 00:25:19,400
interconnect with it. You may have smoke alarms that we

452
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,759
talked about in the dwelling units, they do not constitute

453
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,079
a need for any dedicated circuit. Okay, they're just you know,

454
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:31,160
smoke alarms, and they're interconnected just like you would in

455
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:35,400
the dwelling So you're just talking about the sprinkler in

456
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,119
a notification bell, So I think that personally, I think

457
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,039
I would say that that's a standalone notification system and

458
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,599
I would not be a full fledged fire alarm system

459
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:49,039
to comply with seven point sixty. But remember if the

460
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:53,200
AHJ says it is, then it's simple. If it's supplied

461
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,799
by one hundred and twenty volt circuits, then you're just

462
00:25:55,839 --> 00:25:58,160
going to go to the panel and you're going to

463
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:03,160
follow the rules and seven to sixty one follow those rules,

464
00:26:04,279 --> 00:26:08,240
and that would be for your normal non power limited. Now,

465
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,200
when it comes to power limited, by the way, since

466
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,599
i'll touch on it, for those that have fire alarm systems,

467
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,160
if the panel itself, fire alarm control unit and any

468
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,720
power supply or any transformers in there is going to

469
00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:23,400
limit the amount of current that we get supplied to

470
00:26:23,519 --> 00:26:28,200
these circuits, to these notification devices or whatnot, those are

471
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,519
called power limited firearm circuits. Means their power is literally

472
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:36,200
limited by the controller and the power supply, so that's

473
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:39,160
why we call them. Whereas the non power limited is

474
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:41,920
not limited, so they can be up to six hundred volts.

475
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,359
Typically they're one twenty. So just remember non power limited

476
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,400
is regular one twenty volte like brand circuits. Power limited

477
00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:52,279
are going to be those that are supplied through a

478
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,240
fire alarm control unit, which is going to limit the

479
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,640
amount of power that's going to be on those circuits.

480
00:26:57,799 --> 00:26:59,599
That's an easy way to remember it. You have to

481
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,079
identify if I would system you have work with your

482
00:27:02,079 --> 00:27:05,359
age J And again, if you identify it's just a

483
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:09,599
standalone sprinkler notification system, then that is not a fire

484
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,400
alarm system, and then seven pot sixty would not apply

485
00:27:12,559 --> 00:27:14,640
at all, and it would not be required for any

486
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,640
dedicated circuit, any marketing or anything like that. Does that

487
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:19,799
make sense? All right? Hopefully it's helped you out a

488
00:27:19,839 --> 00:27:22,480
little bit. I don't know that that did, but it

489
00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:24,759
is the best that I got for you. So until

490
00:27:24,759 --> 00:27:26,960
next time, folks, stay safe, God bless them. We'll catch

491
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:54,519
you on the next episode of Let's Ask Paul