Speaker 1: Hello again, Welcome back.
Speaker 2: My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 2: and Grim, a.
Speaker 1: True crime podcast morning. The following podcast material in more
Speaker 1: mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. Dun d. We're back, yes, micube, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it happens, says uh, says you. Every episode you're bumping
Speaker 1: your mic.
Speaker 2: Yeah. But also people can't even hear it.
Speaker 1: That's true. So that's because I put noise reduction in there.
Speaker 2: Good work.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying. Good job, trying. I'm trying. In
Speaker 1: the Podcas guest in Daily Life. You know, the spring
Speaker 1: cleaning's coming out, and I've been trying to get things
Speaker 1: together around the house, but it's hard.
Speaker 2: We're trying to get our shit together. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 2: not really very successful.
Speaker 1: I mean we're trying. That's what counts, right, because.
Speaker 2: We have a big move coming up. I don't know
Speaker 2: if these people know that, but where are I think
Speaker 2: we've kind of like we've touched on it slightly, but
Speaker 2: we're moving into a tiny home in the summer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we're going like full on, like on wheels
Speaker 1: and everything. We have a piece of land selected right
Speaker 1: now currently and this house that we're in is going
Speaker 1: to be going up for sales soon Full.
Speaker 2: Glass Lifestyle Change, my friends Lass Lifestyle Change. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well this house is too big for us because
Speaker 1: it's just you and me and it's what three bedrooms up.
Speaker 1: We got another bedroom going in downstairs with potential more
Speaker 1: that could be made the three bathrooms double garage.
Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't think it was too big at
Speaker 2: one point, but then it's a lot of cleaning and
Speaker 2: we rather just like travel and live life than need
Speaker 2: a big house.
Speaker 1: Really sit in our little tiny home cottage off in
Speaker 1: the country talking about murderers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Podcast, Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be so fun, our first podcast that we
Speaker 2: record in there.
Speaker 1: Oh, we should like see if we can have something
Speaker 1: that really pertains to like an RV or like a
Speaker 1: small cabin.
Speaker 2: Does anyone have any suggestion.
Speaker 1: Oh that that'd be good. There's like a cabin in
Speaker 1: the Is there something that's like really spawn like horror
Speaker 1: movies like Cabin in the Woods.
Speaker 2: Actually, that's a terrible idea. You want to traumatize me?
Speaker 1: I think great, it would be a great way to
Speaker 1: break in our first episode in the tiny home.
Speaker 2: It would. Yeah, we're starting to buy things for it,
Speaker 2: like at a little dot handheld dice in a little
Speaker 2: mosquito stuff because the mosquito's out there are horrific.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're looking into a lot of things like
Speaker 1: water tanks and hauling in gravels for the lot and
Speaker 1: power those sort of things, and of course getting rid
Speaker 1: of all of our excess stuff that we don't need.
Speaker 1: So we're doing a lot of donations and selling on Facebook,
Speaker 1: which is a horrific experience because people do not ever
Speaker 1: ever like follow the listing at all. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 2: I bet you there's a true crime thing for selling
Speaker 2: shit on Facebook. Oh I bet, because I think people
Speaker 2: like have set people up and ship I should find one.
Speaker 1: Well, I do know that people like they'll they'll definitely
Speaker 1: like set someone up and be like, oh you know,
Speaker 1: I'll buy this off you or I've got this for sale,
Speaker 1: and then when people get money, they just like remove
Speaker 1: off Facebook block and they just go completely a wall
Speaker 1: and just steal the money. So that's the thing that
Speaker 1: happens I know a lot. I see it on Facebook
Speaker 1: all the time where people get scammed.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because people are kind of a whole sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's got to.
Speaker 2: Be our people. Our people are good.
Speaker 1: What do you mean our people?
Speaker 2: Our listeners?
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, I was like, I don't know family or
Speaker 1: is that a racist comment? No, I know you want
Speaker 1: to be racist.
Speaker 2: That was the opposite of what I was being.
Speaker 1: I would just like, we mean by our people, like
Speaker 1: who are the listener?
Speaker 2: I just see like our listeners are good people.
Speaker 1: Well so far anyways, we definitely have some cool listeners
Speaker 1: out there, so a plus, you guys are being super
Speaker 1: cool and awesome.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, yeah, So what do you got in
Speaker 2: store for us today? Man?
Speaker 1: I have a crazy case. Okay, but this one's not
Speaker 1: like crazy as in what we've done recently, our last
Speaker 1: few episodes, we've done a lot of like murders, a
Speaker 1: lot of gruesome stuff. So I kind of wanted to
Speaker 1: take a bit of a left turn and not go
Speaker 1: quite so gruesome and horrific, more of just like, how
Speaker 1: is this possible? What the f happened? So we got
Speaker 1: an unsolved case. There is no deaths that we know
Speaker 1: of in this case, but it's a big old mystery,
Speaker 1: a major crime.
Speaker 2: I know you do. I'm surprised you have done more.
Speaker 1: So this is very much so kind of like the
Speaker 1: Mad Trapper of Rat River, where we just don't know
Speaker 1: who this guy is very similar because this is the
Speaker 1: case of the infamous dB Cooper. Have you heard of
Speaker 1: dB Cooper prior to me talking about it?
Speaker 2: No idea? No, is that bad?
Speaker 1: Probably because this is one of the greatest unsolved mysteries
Speaker 1: in FBI.
Speaker 2: His huh, it's drinking.
Speaker 1: It's it's pretty intense. Okay, So you're ready.
Speaker 2: I'm ready for you to entertain us.
Speaker 1: I'm you ready for the entertainment.
Speaker 2: I need some entertainment.
Speaker 1: Ready, spaghetti, Let's dive in and do something that runs
Speaker 1: with spaghetti. I don't know, okay. On the afternoon of
Speaker 1: November twenty fourth in nineteen seventy one, a middle aged
Speaker 1: man carrying a briefcase entered the Northwest Orient Airlines Airport
Speaker 1: in Portland, Oregon. He identified himself as Dan Cooper. He
Speaker 1: cashed buy a one way ticket bound for Seattle, Washington, and,
Speaker 1: along with thirty six other passengers and a flight crew
Speaker 1: of six, he boarded flight number three oh five.
Speaker 2: That's not those Portland and Seattle are not far from
Speaker 2: each other at all, are they?
Speaker 1: No? No, none at all? Oh okay, but I mean
Speaker 1: there's there's connecting flights all over the place, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love Portland and Seattle.
Speaker 1: Actually they're nice areas. I've got lots of beer and
Speaker 1: the coffee. They're really known for the coffee there too, So.
Speaker 2: You should love that place hundred percent.
Speaker 1: Definitely. Well, we've been there once.
Speaker 2: Portland once, Seattle. I've been a few times.
Speaker 1: I've been to Seattle once and it was only for
Speaker 1: Emerald City Comic Con because I'm a big nerdy.
Speaker 2: You went with me too.
Speaker 1: Did we go through Seattle?
Speaker 2: He did. We stopped there for an afternoon and like
Speaker 2: stopped at crab Pot and went to that's right right.
Speaker 1: For some reason, I was thinking that was in Portland still,
Speaker 1: But no, you're right, yeah, because we were right on
Speaker 1: the I don't what you call it, but like the
Speaker 1: coast there with all the like the ferris wheel and stuff.
Speaker 2: I know, I don't know what it's called. I should
Speaker 2: know what it's called. But it's an awesome area.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gorgeous. Okay, So I've been there twice. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 1: but so far, Dan Cooper doesn't sound like a terrible dude.
Speaker 1: He's just a regular dude going on an airplane right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So on board the flight, Cooper sat in the middle
Speaker 1: seat in the very last row on the right hand
Speaker 1: side of the cabin. Cooper was a quiet man who
Speaker 1: appeared to be in his mid forties, wearing a business suit,
Speaker 1: a black tie, white shirt, and once he boarded the plane,
Speaker 1: he wore a pair of black horn rim sunglasses.
Speaker 2: Wow, he sounds like a badass.
Speaker 1: I mean he's definitely looking like it right now. Definitely
Speaker 1: kind of like got that men in black vibe going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: So before takeoff, he ordered himself a drink because I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, we're in the seventies here, right, So he
Speaker 1: ordered it himself ordered He ordered himself a bourbon and soda,
Speaker 1: and then lit a cigarette.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, on the airplane.
Speaker 1: On the airplane is that shit allowed in the seventies yet?
Speaker 2: Holy shit. I couldn't imagine being on an airplane someone's smoking.
Speaker 1: That's nice total. I believe he smoked eight cigarettes. Gosh,
Speaker 1: so a short time after a short time after three pm. Sorry.
Speaker 1: During takeoff, he handed a stewardess by the name of Florence.
Speaker 1: I'm terrible with names, but I'm gonna try this here.
Speaker 1: Florence Schaeffer a note. The note read quote, and I can't.
Speaker 1: I could never find confirmed quotes. So this is a
Speaker 1: quote I think is proper. Okay, miss I have a
Speaker 1: bomb here. I would like you to sit by me.
Speaker 2: Some pump thing going off again. Maybe that's like the
Speaker 2: drum roll.
Speaker 1: Right, Maybe that denoising dropped there. So she was stunned
Speaker 1: and she did what she was told.
Speaker 2: Okay, so sorry. The note said, miss I have a bomb.
Speaker 1: Miss I have a bomb here, and I would like
Speaker 1: you to sit by me.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, So like I.
Speaker 1: Said, she stunned and she did what she was told.
Speaker 1: She sat next to Cooper and the briefcase he was
Speaker 1: carrying was opened and Cooper showed her a glimpse of
Speaker 1: a massive wires and eight red sticks of dynamite. He
Speaker 1: then demanded that she write down what he told her.
Speaker 1: As a plane gained altitude. She soon was walking to
Speaker 1: the cabin or sorry, the cockpit of the plane with
Speaker 1: a note that said, I want two hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: by five pm in cash. Put it in a knapsack.
Speaker 1: I want two backpack parachutes and two front parachutes when
Speaker 1: we land. I want a fuel truck ready to refuel
Speaker 1: no funny stuff, or I'll do the job. So that's
Speaker 1: what she delivered to the pilot.
Speaker 2: So does he want that fricking money by the time
Speaker 2: they land?
Speaker 1: Pray much, you're getting a little bit ahead here, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what he wants prepared by the time they land.
Speaker 2: That's quite the fucking demand, right, So.
Speaker 1: This is it's pretty intense what's going on. And during
Speaker 1: the flight, the flight attendant by the name of Tina
Speaker 1: Mucklow took her place beside beside Cooper as the other
Speaker 1: stewardess made her way to the front right, and she
Speaker 1: was now Cooper's point person, relaying messages over the phones
Speaker 1: the plane's inner phone back and forth between him and
Speaker 1: the cockpit for the next hour and a half, because,
Speaker 1: like you said, Seattle and Portland are very close, right, yeah,
Speaker 1: so when need to arrive to its destination. Over the
Speaker 1: next hour and a half, the plane maintained a holding
Speaker 1: pattern above Seattle while ground crews arranged the fueling truck
Speaker 1: and authorities produced a ransom and four parachutes.
Speaker 2: Good lord, so they're actually like listening to him.
Speaker 1: Well, he's got a plane full of thirty six passengers
Speaker 1: and six crew members and a.
Speaker 2: Bomb, I guess, but like, how do they know for
Speaker 2: sure that's a legit bomb?
Speaker 1: Well better than rolling the dice.
Speaker 2: Right, touche toche.
Speaker 1: So what the authorities got together was ten thousand dollars
Speaker 1: in sorry, ten twenty dollars bills. They were collected from
Speaker 1: a nearby bank, and four shoots were supplied by a
Speaker 1: skydiving school. Now, the money collected from the bank was
Speaker 1: like a previously collected thing that was already set aside
Speaker 1: just in case of a scenario just like this. Oh okay,
Speaker 1: So the bank had already recorded the serial numbers and
Speaker 1: they were documented. Every single bill was able to be traced.
Speaker 2: That's smart, yep.
Speaker 1: So they were on the ball ready just in case.
Speaker 1: Right now, the four shoots is actually pretty significant here,
Speaker 1: because why would one dude need four parishies?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was kind of wondering that actually, So.
Speaker 1: What it is here is the front parachute and a
Speaker 1: back parachute. One is a primary and one is a secondary,
Speaker 1: So one person will wear two shutes. Okay, okay, Now
Speaker 1: him asking for four led the FBI to believe he's
Speaker 1: planning on taking a hostage. Ah, so they never tampered
Speaker 1: with the parachutes at all. They didn't want to risk
Speaker 1: the life of a civilian, so they supplied what they
Speaker 1: thought were four adequate, untampered with parachutes. This is a
Speaker 1: little bit of information that's kind of not necessary, but
Speaker 1: I'll say it now. One of these shots they actually
Speaker 1: did supply, one of the backup ones, was actually a
Speaker 1: dummy shoote. They didn't even realize it.
Speaker 2: But oh so it wouldn't go off, then it wouldn't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a dummy hute Ooh, it's kind of irrelevant.
Speaker 2: But huh.
Speaker 1: Okay. So by five forty five, Flight three oh five
Speaker 1: finally made its landing in Seattle the hijacker exchange of
Speaker 1: flight passengers hijacker being Cooper. Yeah, so those thirty six passengers,
Speaker 1: most of which didn't even know that there was a
Speaker 1: hijacking that happened.
Speaker 2: Okay, seriously, that was one question I had, like, do
Speaker 2: these people know that something's up?
Speaker 1: No, most of them didn't even know. Of course, they
Speaker 1: would know that they're.
Speaker 2: Circling well and that they're latest. Heck, like you think, Okay,
Speaker 2: but I'm sure that.
Speaker 1: The pilot was able to keep things under control. Cooper
Speaker 1: was being very discreet about the whole thing most didn't even,
Speaker 1: which is no good. Oh, definitely, So he exchanged the
Speaker 1: thirty six passengers and two flight attendants for the money
Speaker 1: in parachutes. So he did keep four of the crew members. Okay,
Speaker 1: So once refueled, they were on ground for a little
Speaker 1: while here because it was apparently complication with refueling. But
Speaker 1: once refueled, the plane took off again at seven thirty
Speaker 1: six PM. Cooper then ordered a non stop course from
Speaker 1: Mexico City.
Speaker 2: Oh, he knew where he wanted to go.
Speaker 1: He had an exact destination. He instructed they were to
Speaker 1: fly the plane with the landing gear down, the wing
Speaker 1: flaps at fifteen degrees, and that they were to stay
Speaker 1: below ten thousand feet altitude. He also instructed that the
Speaker 1: lights in the cabin were to remain off and the
Speaker 1: stairway for the plane to be left open.
Speaker 2: Shit.
Speaker 1: So this is also important here to notify that the
Speaker 1: stairway for the plane on this model a Boeing. I
Speaker 1: can't remember the model. I have it later here in
Speaker 1: the notes. Give it a quick search Boeing three thirty
Speaker 1: seven or something like that. We'll run into the exact
Speaker 1: model a little little later here. So on this specific
Speaker 1: model of plane. The stairs were located on the underside
Speaker 1: of the plane, facing backwards, so facing the back of
Speaker 1: the plane.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Okay, so yeah, we'll get into them to visualize that.
Speaker 2: That's different, right, yeah, it's not normal. Yeah, sure, Okay, Now.
Speaker 1: There are two issues with his requests. A NonStop flight
Speaker 1: to Mexico City just wasn't possible.
Speaker 2: They have to refuel, right, Oh okay, that's quite a distance.
Speaker 1: Oh, definitely, because you're going from like Northern States to Mexico.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the journey.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and on this side of the plane and everything.
Speaker 1: Just yeah. So anyways, there was some debate about where
Speaker 1: they were going to land for refuel. Cooper suggested a
Speaker 1: few spots, but they eventually decided to refuel in Reno, Nevada. Okay,
Speaker 1: second takeoff wasn't possible with the staircase in the open position,
Speaker 1: so the flight crew taught Cooper how to operate the
Speaker 1: stairs so he could open them himself once the plane
Speaker 1: was airborne.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, he's got a bomb, he's controlling everything.
Speaker 2: Gosh. I just feel like there would have been an
Speaker 2: opportunity for these people like run the fuck away or
Speaker 2: like kake him down.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but who knows what specifically he had. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, if he lets go of that briefcase, for
Speaker 1: all they know, it could have blow up, and if
Speaker 1: they try and tackle them, he lets go boom.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true.
Speaker 1: So who knows what the situation really was?
Speaker 2: Like, they're in quite the pickle.
Speaker 1: Yep. So once they were in the air, the crew
Speaker 1: were to stay in the cockpit and leave Cooper alone.
Speaker 2: Interesting. He didn't want any more.
Speaker 1: Drinks, I guess not. Maybe one final drink. Maybe he did.
Speaker 1: I don't know, not too sure, but I doubt it. So.
Speaker 1: Tina Mucklow was one of the stewardess who was still
Speaker 1: on board. She was the last to see Cooper. She
Speaker 1: was closing the cockpit door behind her, and he was
Speaker 1: standing in the middle of the aisle looking as if
Speaker 1: he was preparing to jump.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 1: Now, after completing the journey to Reno, the plane made
Speaker 1: its landing safely, and they found Cooper was no longer
Speaker 1: aboard the airplane.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so they didn't even make that final Mexico
Speaker 2: City destination.
Speaker 1: Nope, they didn't even make it to refueling and Reno.
Speaker 2: Oh. Interesting.
Speaker 1: So, after completing the journey to Reno. The plane made
Speaker 1: it safe landing, and he was not aboard. It seems
Speaker 1: that he jumped somewhere between Seattle and Reno, and he
Speaker 1: lowered the stairs himself, you know, and just gone.
Speaker 2: And he left.
Speaker 1: And once it was But of course some people might
Speaker 1: be like, well, how do you know he jumped. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's hiding on the plane.
Speaker 2: Well I thought that already.
Speaker 1: They searched the plane. He was not him. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: he wasn't on board the plane. And once they figured
Speaker 1: that out, they began to actually search the plane for evidence.
Speaker 1: And what he left behind was this. He left a
Speaker 1: black clip on tie, eight cigarette butts and two of
Speaker 1: the four parachutes. Okay, the note that he left behind
Speaker 1: for the stewardess. He was actually smart enough to take
Speaker 1: that with him.
Speaker 2: Then, okay, why would they It's a handwritten note, handwriting,
Speaker 2: that's true. Yeah, I wonder why you need four parachutes
Speaker 2: and he only used two.
Speaker 1: It could have been employee for the FBI to make them.
Speaker 2: Not oh could smart actually because of the FBI.
Speaker 1: Why does he need four parachutes? He's planning on taking
Speaker 1: a hostage, and if.
Speaker 2: They would have, if he would have disasked like two,
Speaker 2: they would have made them both not work exactly.
Speaker 1: I'm with you, he's on this, he's thinking ahead. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's smart.
Speaker 2: It totally is.
Speaker 1: The description that was given to investigators led to a
Speaker 1: many famous sketches. There's several different renditions of the sketches
Speaker 1: out there. They mostly all look the same. That's just
Speaker 1: some are a little more refined than others. Some have
Speaker 1: the sunglasses on or off.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see a sketch.
Speaker 1: Well, it's going to be up on her Instagram, I know.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: The description was he was a Caucasian male between the
Speaker 1: age of thirty five to fifty. He was five foot
Speaker 1: nine to six feet tall, medium build, black, dark brown hair,
Speaker 1: and brown eyes. Okay, and of course with the clothing
Speaker 1: and his disposition that we mentioned at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the podcast here as well.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's such an age span. Sorry, I
Speaker 2: just have to put that out there.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: I'm like, if I'm fifty verse thirty five, I hope
Speaker 2: people tell like I want them to tell him thirty
Speaker 2: five and not fifty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, But I mean maybe some people look thirty
Speaker 1: five when they are fifty.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 1: Kind of hope for.
Speaker 2: That, right, Yeah, that's very true.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's like this. It's got a lot of gray hair,
Speaker 1: his hair is receding. But he looked young as fuck.
Speaker 1: He could have been thirty five, four fifty. I don't
Speaker 1: fucking know. He's getting ida at the liquor stores. It's
Speaker 1: all we know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So to try and locate Cooper, investigators needed to try
Speaker 1: and identify when and where the plane was when he jumped,
Speaker 1: and to narrow down the search to find him. This
Speaker 1: was key. This was difficult, though, since no one ever
Speaker 1: saw Cooper jump or leave the plane exactly, couldn't exactly
Speaker 1: identified it. And this when I say no one saw him,
Speaker 1: this also includes two fighter jets that followed the plane
Speaker 1: that night on the way to Reno.
Speaker 2: Oh really, yep? Did he? I wonder if he knew
Speaker 2: they were there.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I doubt it.
Speaker 2: Huh. That's snaky, right.
Speaker 1: The only thing they had to go on, though, was
Speaker 1: something the flight crew had reported. The last communication with
Speaker 1: Cooper was over the inner phone or whatever at about
Speaker 1: eight oh five PM, and approximately ten minutes after that call,
Speaker 1: the crew experienced some oscillation or vibrations, which is now
Speaker 1: thought to be from the stairs lowering and his jump.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so that's the.
Speaker 1: Only thing they have to go on when he jumped, right,
Speaker 1: So we're looking at about eight fifteen pm here around
Speaker 1: them in like November. So it's like pitch black cold weather.
Speaker 2: Right, that's terrifying, but.
Speaker 1: It's something to go on. It's something, and it's better
Speaker 1: than nothing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just feel like that'd be so terrifying
Speaker 2: I actually jump aha.
Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So they have an idea on when he jumped, right,
Speaker 3: and now they haven't approximately time, and they can identify the.
Speaker 1: Area because Cooper was not specific on a flight path.
Speaker 1: He was specific on destination, but not how to get there, right,
Speaker 1: So they determined Reno was where they were going to refuel.
Speaker 1: But he never told the pilot what how to fly
Speaker 1: or where to go or anything. So the pilot took
Speaker 1: a route that was familiar to him, the route being
Speaker 1: Victor twenty three Airway. So they have a common, well
Speaker 1: known route and they have a time window. So you
Speaker 1: do an estimation, you can pretty much figure out exactly
Speaker 1: where the plane was when Dbie Cooper jumped, if.
Speaker 2: That's if that's actually when he jumped.
Speaker 1: If that's actually when he jumped. So yeah, huh interesting,
Speaker 1: and that location was approximately forty kilometers north of Portland.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, it's not even that. Yeah, they didn't make
Speaker 2: it far at all.
Speaker 1: No, by morning's light, the FBI had the ground and
Speaker 1: air covered in search crew looking for Cooper. However, remember
Speaker 1: this is the Pacific Northwest. Yeah, you're outside of large cities,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of mountains. There's a lot of
Speaker 1: dense forest.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So you have a vast area and you're talking about
Speaker 1: ten thousand feet up approximately in a window where he
Speaker 1: might have jumped. You have a vast landing area.
Speaker 2: When were they so they were overlap So at that time, yes,
Speaker 2: they were Okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So unfortunately, throughout persistent searching, the investigators never found any
Speaker 1: trace of Cooper or his items.
Speaker 2: Did he take the bomb with him?
Speaker 1: Yep, okay, took the bomb. He had a main parachute.
Speaker 1: I didn't put this in here because it's not important,
Speaker 1: but I brought up that dummy parachute. Yeah, we get
Speaker 1: into a little bit about the main parachute. But the
Speaker 1: dummy parachute they theorized because he took that with him
Speaker 1: rather than the backup parachute. They think he may have
Speaker 1: took that dummy one on purpose because he used it
Speaker 1: to still money, because the other backup parachute was actually
Speaker 1: opened and pulled out as if he was trying to
Speaker 1: stuff the money in that one.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so.
Speaker 1: They think he wore a parachute and the other backup
Speaker 1: one was actually for the money.
Speaker 2: Huh. Gotta keep that money safe. Yeah, yeah, those dollar bills.
Speaker 1: So during the search, remember, like I said, the serial
Speaker 1: numbers on the cash. You know, it was all collected,
Speaker 1: it was all documented.
Speaker 2: So much smartness going on through this case.
Speaker 1: Oh there is. It's very meticulous.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So as soon as this was like happening, as soon
Speaker 1: as this was secured that he's got the money and everything,
Speaker 1: these numbers were made public immediately. They were looking for
Speaker 1: anyone who came across a bill matching one of these
Speaker 1: serial numbers. And there was even newspaper articles and rewards
Speaker 1: of up to twenty five thousand dollars for anyone who
Speaker 1: could find a bill that matched one of those numbers.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, no one was ever able to find one of
Speaker 1: these bills and match it to a serial number. No one,
Speaker 1: no one.
Speaker 2: Oh, I was expecting you to have like a big
Speaker 2: list of reports.
Speaker 1: Nope, that is that's wild. Not until February tenth of
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine years later.
Speaker 2: Huh So.
Speaker 1: The person to find a matching serial number bill was
Speaker 1: an eight year old boy named Brian Ingram. He was
Speaker 1: on a small beach called Tina Bar on the Columbus River,
Speaker 1: about nine miles downstream of Vancouver, Washington. He was digging
Speaker 1: in the sand and unearthed three stacks of cash totaling
Speaker 1: five tho eight hundred and eighty dollars.
Speaker 2: Seriously, he was.
Speaker 1: Like, school right, start the car. I mean, that's probably
Speaker 1: going to be my reaction when I find stacks of cash.
Speaker 2: No kidding, that's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Oh definitely. I couldn't find if they got reward money
Speaker 1: or not find hope.
Speaker 2: So because he could have just kept that shit.
Speaker 1: Well, it's going to be identified as soon as I
Speaker 1: try and use it. And the money was quite deteriorated
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so anyway, resting.
Speaker 1: I kind of already alluded to it, but Brian's parents
Speaker 1: gave the money to FBI, who then investigated money. The
Speaker 1: two packs each contained one hundred twenty dollars bills, and
Speaker 1: a third pack contained ninety It was a match. These
Speaker 1: bills had the same serial numbers, and they were still
Speaker 1: in the same order as when they were given to
Speaker 1: Cooper nine years earlier, because they recorded the bill stacked
Speaker 1: all in chronological order even and it was still in
Speaker 1: that specific order. So there's raised some questions.
Speaker 2: Clearly, Well, yeah, like was it buried there or was
Speaker 2: it had it fallen or well, I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get you're almost ahead of me a little bit.
Speaker 1: We're right on that, like did it fall, Like what happened?
Speaker 1: How did it get there? The area though, in which
Speaker 1: they estimated Cooper would have landed and where the money
Speaker 1: was found was over approximately twenty seven kilometers apart, and
Speaker 1: not to mention, the beach where the money was found
Speaker 1: wasn't even near the flight path that they took that
Speaker 1: Victor twenty three or whatever, so they weren't even close
Speaker 1: to each other.
Speaker 2: I feel like that's kind of close twenty seven kilometers for.
Speaker 1: Ten thousand kilometers up and approximately where he landed, and
Speaker 1: it's not even in the flight path, I guess.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the.
Speaker 1: First theory that comes up is the money could it
Speaker 1: have been lost by Cooper and maybe float floating down
Speaker 1: a river because there's a lot of rivers connect to
Speaker 1: an area, right, Yeah, So would it have floated down
Speaker 1: the river and made its way onto Tina Bar there?
Speaker 1: Not so much, because the Columbus River on the side
Speaker 1: the bar the where it was found actually flows in
Speaker 1: the opposite direction.
Speaker 2: Okay, so that theory is out the window.
Speaker 1: That theory is pretty much out the window. But it
Speaker 1: does kind of draw another question to the flight path
Speaker 1: because if it was further east in a different drop zone,
Speaker 1: it could have led to rivers that could have been
Speaker 1: going down and then connect to the Columbus River and
Speaker 1: connect to that bar. Or if it was further west,
Speaker 1: it could have been a lot closer or maybe even
Speaker 1: have dropped right near there. So it draws that flight
Speaker 1: path into question. Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like that pilot knew what he
Speaker 2: was doing.
Speaker 1: I think so. But even though these things are still questions.
Speaker 1: Maybe a little more east, a little more west, that
Speaker 1: doesn't really explain everything. How would three bundles of cash
Speaker 1: separate bundles make a twenty seven kilometer journey plus or
Speaker 1: even falling one hundred thousand feet or whatever, fall side
Speaker 1: by side on a river bank buried in the same spot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it was buried. I'm team buried, team buried.
Speaker 1: So although the cash was significantly deteriorated, they were held
Speaker 1: together by rubber bands, and Cooper made away with his
Speaker 1: cash nine years ago. Rubber bands don't last that long,
Speaker 1: especially out in weather. Oh, they're going to deteriorate like snap.
Speaker 2: For the amount that the money had deteriorated, the rubber
Speaker 2: bands would have by far basically, Well.
Speaker 1: There's actually an experiment that was done in two thousand
Speaker 1: and nine on this specific brand of rubber bands, and
Speaker 1: it shows that they could not withstand exposure to open
Speaker 1: air or water for more than a year. So someone, Wow,
Speaker 1: that money there within a year.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: So that's eight years after dB Cooper that money was
Speaker 1: placed there.
Speaker 2: That's wild. And there was ten set ten bills missing, yes,
Speaker 2: two who.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of like, what the fuck happened? And
Speaker 1: the only real way to explain it is human intervention.
Speaker 1: Anyway else doesn't make sense.
Speaker 2: It might not even have been him. So yeah, someone
Speaker 2: else could have maybe found this money and just like
Speaker 2: hiding it.
Speaker 1: Right, I'm not saying it's Cooper, Yeah, but the only
Speaker 1: way it could have gotten there was a person.
Speaker 2: Yeah who cool?
Speaker 1: Cool cool?
Speaker 2: I like this.
Speaker 1: So with that, the only evidence we have left on
Speaker 1: Cooper is very little. He took the note from the plane,
Speaker 1: like I said, I wrote to the stewardess. It's nowhere
Speaker 1: to be found. So the only sample of handwriting they
Speaker 1: have from him is on his plane ticket, where he
Speaker 1: wrote his pseudonym or supposed name.
Speaker 2: Okay, now, if.
Speaker 1: You remember, Cooper was also smoking on the plane. There
Speaker 1: was eight cigarette butts left behind, and with modern technology
Speaker 1: we should be able to pull DNA samples and compare
Speaker 1: them to possible suspects.
Speaker 2: Right right right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: That is if we still had the cigarette butts.
Speaker 2: Oh they didn't keep them.
Speaker 1: Uh, they went missing. They're they're just gone.
Speaker 2: Oh he took them too.
Speaker 1: No, they were on the plane. They were found by investigators.
Speaker 1: What the heck, But now they just don't know where
Speaker 1: they are. Cool, good job, So those are gone. We
Speaker 1: had them, but they're gone now.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was later in the early twenty tens, DNA
Speaker 1: taken from the tie he had left behind. However, that's
Speaker 1: kind of moot because they don't know if it's actually
Speaker 1: his DNA because it could have been contaminant DNA from
Speaker 1: someone else, or it could have been like maybe he
Speaker 1: just stole that time from someone at the airport, or
Speaker 1: maybe he borrowed it from a friend. That's true, whose
Speaker 1: DNA is it?
Speaker 2: Or he just picked it up like a thrift store
Speaker 2: or something like.
Speaker 1: You have no idea, right, so if he had, if
Speaker 1: we had those cigarettes, we could say these cigarettes were
Speaker 1: on his lips, he smoked them, this is his DNA
Speaker 1: or like.
Speaker 2: A cup or something. I can't believe they didn't have anything.
Speaker 1: They didn't have anything.
Speaker 2: That's actually bad because I was like, this guy's kind
Speaker 2: of smart. But for him to leave the cup and
Speaker 2: the cigarettes.
Speaker 1: And stuff, well in the seventies though, DNA's wasn't really
Speaker 1: a thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you got me there.
Speaker 1: So what happened to Cooper to this day is a
Speaker 1: mystery from here. While we're still got some facts to explore,
Speaker 1: most only suggest minimal to help support theories. Unfortunately. So
Speaker 1: for example, like the four shoots, two were left behind.
Speaker 1: Primary shoot was a the primary shoot of one left
Speaker 1: behind There we go when was a quote unquote luxury
Speaker 1: civilian shoot, while the one he took was an older
Speaker 1: military model which had no steering. So some people say
Speaker 1: he like just made a bad choice, he didn't know
Speaker 1: what he was doing, or there's the argument it could
Speaker 1: possibly suggest he was comfortable with this model that had
Speaker 1: and had a military background. Oh okay, and not only that,
Speaker 1: the airplane model. Here's the model, the Boeing seven twenty seven.
Speaker 1: It was used by the CIA to drop military personnel
Speaker 1: in Vietnam War due to its design with the staircase
Speaker 1: located under the plane facing backwards.
Speaker 2: Ohs okay. So they're thinking that he might have been
Speaker 2: military military sounds like it or seems like it.
Speaker 1: It's it's a very probable explanation, but still that doesn't
Speaker 1: lead us anywhere. It could explain some things, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't really give us much to go on. One of
Speaker 1: another one of the most common theories actually is that
Speaker 1: Cooper didn't actually in fact survive the jump. It was
Speaker 1: nighttime in November, freezing temperatures, it was freezing rain and
Speaker 1: strong winds. He jumped blindly with a shoot. He couldn't
Speaker 1: steer into the Pacific Northwest Forest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I feel like by now Small would have
Speaker 2: found him, or the parachute or something exactly. That's the case.
Speaker 1: That's true, But maybe someone did and didn't know what
Speaker 1: it was, or it's just deteriorated so far. Who knows.
Speaker 2: I'm going to believe that he's he's didn't I I
Speaker 2: don't like that one.
Speaker 1: Something that supports what you're saying, though, is there was
Speaker 1: never a missing person's report matching Cooper's description or the
Speaker 1: sketch that was ever filed afterwards, which might suggest he's
Speaker 1: still alive. Oh so no family has reported someone looking
Speaker 1: like him to be missing, or.
Speaker 2: He just didn't really have family. That could be too.
Speaker 1: It could be it too.
Speaker 2: I feel like lots of people just like I bet
Speaker 2: there's people go missing and no one's there are There
Speaker 2: are lots of cases, which it's actually sad, Yeah, real sad.
Speaker 1: One of the first aspects whose initials were dB Cooper
Speaker 1: was quickly eliminated, though, and due to a news paper
Speaker 1: mix up they printed the initials dB Cooper in the
Speaker 1: newspaper rather than Dan Cooper, the name that was the
Speaker 1: pseudonym name of this guy who was on the airplane. Okay,
Speaker 1: and well now it's history. Dan Cooper, the pseudonym name
Speaker 1: is now become dB Cooper because of that print. So
Speaker 1: that's where the name D. B. Cooper comes in, even
Speaker 1: though he's referred to as Dan Cooper.
Speaker 2: Interesting, okay, So yeah, huh.
Speaker 1: There's another theory that suggests Cooper was actually Canadian. There's
Speaker 1: a French comic series with a protagonist pilot by the
Speaker 1: name of Dan Cooper. It's never been translated to English.
Speaker 1: I mean maybe it has by modern day, but at
Speaker 1: the time it definitely wasn't nor sold outside of Canada,
Speaker 1: and this could be an inspiration for his name.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: Also, when Cooper was talking with the pilot on board
Speaker 1: the plane about his demands, there were some communication between
Speaker 1: between ground control and the plane and then the plane
Speaker 1: and dB Cooper, right, okay, between the plane and ground control. Posedly,
Speaker 1: they quoted him to say he was asking for American currency,
Speaker 1: which could mean that he's another nationality, because why would
Speaker 1: an Americans specify American currency?
Speaker 2: That's true, you would just say what you want, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I just.
Speaker 1: Want the dollars, motherfucker.
Speaker 2: Huh.
Speaker 1: So that's another theory that he's actually Canadian.
Speaker 2: So he's up in our parts of the.
Speaker 1: Woods maybe, but again it's just a theory. Yeah, there's
Speaker 1: there's a lot of theories out there on who dB
Speaker 1: Cooper is. Uh, there's several suspects out there and thousands
Speaker 1: of people actually who claim to know who he is.
Speaker 1: I'm talking like uncles, husbands, grandparents, neighbors, like the list
Speaker 1: goes on, and of course many people to actually be
Speaker 1: claiming to be dB Cooper himself, but with no definitive
Speaker 1: evidence to support any of these claims there there's no
Speaker 1: nothing to grasp onto. There's people literally on their deathbed
Speaker 1: saying like, I have something to confess, I'm dB Coop.
Speaker 1: But of course there's more than one person doing that.
Speaker 2: Why though, that's so interesting? Why do people I don't know.
Speaker 1: Some people could just be so enthralled with the story
Speaker 1: or enthralled with the tale, or maybe they want to
Speaker 1: it's some way of them to be remembered forever. They're
Speaker 1: trying to be dB Cooper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean he kind of seems like a
Speaker 2: bad ass.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's definitely some suspects still out there, some
Speaker 1: people who are like there's some pretty big coincidences going on.
Speaker 2: Ex.
Speaker 1: Military personnel for example, or people with named Dan Cooper,
Speaker 1: or people who have found their grandparents' possessions, and it's like, Oh,
Speaker 1: he's got this model parachute up in the attic that
Speaker 1: was exactly the same as the one used, but it's
Speaker 1: more than one. And I was trying to go through
Speaker 1: some of them, and I'm like, if I start going
Speaker 1: on this route of this guy, this guy, this guy,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be this is gonna be like a week
Speaker 1: long podcast. Yeah, So what I'm gonna do is I
Speaker 1: am going to drop a link down below with a
Speaker 1: YouTube documentary that helped me out significantly, significantly with my
Speaker 1: research actually, and they cover I believe, five different individuals,
Speaker 1: some of the more high profile people. Okay, so if
Speaker 1: you want to check out some of the higher suspects,
Speaker 1: go check them out. There's also an HBO documentary that
Speaker 1: I haven't watched yet. I want to watch with more
Speaker 1: people claiming their grandparents or whoever are dB Cooper.
Speaker 2: Because but it also would be scary to admit it
Speaker 2: at this point. You'd still have to like go to
Speaker 2: court and stuff. I imagine, like they wouldn't just drop it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, some of the suspects too, on their deathbed, who
Speaker 1: they're like, you're dying, like let it, Like we think
Speaker 1: you're dB Cooper? Are you? And they're like, might be.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Some people are not confirming or denying, and some people
Speaker 1: are trying to say I am. Some people are saying
Speaker 1: I know who it is. It's just there's no evidence.
Speaker 2: Shit, I want to know. I want to know.
Speaker 1: We're never gonna know, is the problem?
Speaker 2: Okay? And that the money thing though, that money that
Speaker 2: they like dug up yep was the only money that
Speaker 2: they ever came across.
Speaker 1: Then, correct, Wow, Actually something I did come across weird.
Speaker 1: I can't remember how much it was, but there were
Speaker 1: I think five or ten different bills that were sold
Speaker 1: in auction that were the bills that were found on
Speaker 1: that beach. Right.
Speaker 2: Oh, so some of them.
Speaker 1: Were actually sold in auction as like collectibles and this
Speaker 1: sort of stuff that.
Speaker 2: Were yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 1: And it was like, I can't remember how much it
Speaker 1: was sold for, but it was like I think all
Speaker 1: the bills in total, they were twenty dollars bills, So
Speaker 1: if it was like ten, that's like two hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: I think they sold for like thirty two grand or
Speaker 1: something like.
Speaker 2: Wow, who's making that money?
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I would want one of those bills, I know, I
Speaker 2: actually would do. That's super cool.
Speaker 1: There is one more little piece of evidence here I
Speaker 1: wanted to save to the end. As for Cooper's motive, Okay,
Speaker 1: why would he do this? Tina Mucklow, if you remember,
Speaker 1: was one of the stewardest upon the plane, right and
Speaker 1: while the hijacking and all this was going down, she
Speaker 1: asked him, like, why are you doing This's what's going on?
Speaker 1: And he responded, and this is a quote from Tina, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not because I have a grudge toward you towards
Speaker 1: your airlines. It's just because I have.
Speaker 2: A grudge, just a grudge.
Speaker 1: But against who or why?
Speaker 2: Huh? And like okay, so, like I know what he
Speaker 2: was doing wasn't great and ship, but like no one
Speaker 2: really got harmed.
Speaker 1: Really, yeah, it was harmed. But he stole a shit
Speaker 1: ton of money.
Speaker 2: So what was his What was he you know, getting
Speaker 2: out of this?
Speaker 1: And it's money that he could never spend.
Speaker 2: Exactly because he would have known that too, I saw
Speaker 2: the news and stuff going on.
Speaker 1: That's kind of one of the things that they were
Speaker 1: trying to do, is they were trying to prevent him
Speaker 1: from spending money. And if they did find some money
Speaker 1: that was spent by him, huh, they're going to find him.
Speaker 2: Man, you should have asked more questions. I should have
Speaker 2: been on that airline. I would have asked him a
Speaker 2: million questions.
Speaker 1: Who are you, where do you live.
Speaker 2: What's the grudge? Tell me your background story, can see
Speaker 2: your identification?
Speaker 1: Holy So, of course, like I said, the Internet swarming
Speaker 1: with theories and stories about this case, and you can
Speaker 1: live literally go down a rabbit hole for like years
Speaker 1: trying to figure out just too dB Cooper?
Speaker 2: Oh, I imagine.
Speaker 1: But the fact remains, who is dB Cooper? It remains
Speaker 1: one of the greatest unsolved mysteries in FBI history, and.
Speaker 2: It also sounds like it's one that will never know.
Speaker 1: I don't think we will, because if I'm gonna guess,
Speaker 1: I would say dB Cooper is probably dead dead already,
Speaker 1: and if not, he's probably on his deathbed. And even
Speaker 1: if he does, or he's close to being, like he's
Speaker 1: got only a decade left maybe right, even if he
Speaker 1: comes forward, there's so many people saying it already. The
Speaker 1: only thing that's going to prove a person is dB
Speaker 1: Cooper is if they come forward with the stacks of
Speaker 1: cash and saying I'm dB Cooper.
Speaker 2: Here's the money I stole, and maybe that parachute or the.
Speaker 1: Note, right, maybe I think the money's the key player here.
Speaker 2: All that money comes out there.
Speaker 1: I think the money is the only way of definitively
Speaker 1: proving it. If someone says, my grandpa left this in
Speaker 1: my possession, it's a giant suitcase full of money and
Speaker 1: it's all the serial numbers.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Even still, though, how do we know that her grandpa,
Speaker 1: with all that money he left her.
Speaker 2: A friend didn't give it to him or something.
Speaker 1: So we still don't know who dB Cooper is. Dang,
Speaker 1: I don't think we're ever going to know who dB
Speaker 1: Cooper is. But if that money comes forward, that's the
Speaker 1: best shot we get. And I don't know if it'll
Speaker 1: ever come forward.
Speaker 2: My brain is just going like a mile minute right now.
Speaker 2: I really want to know. But yeah, it's kind of
Speaker 2: neat leaving having it as a mystery, but I want
Speaker 2: to know.
Speaker 1: There's, like I said, there's there's rabbit holes to go down.
Speaker 1: I have because well, you know, I'm on night shift
Speaker 1: half the time. I got to stay up to like
Speaker 1: four am when I'm switching from days to nights. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've sat in front of the YouTube, like the rabbit
Speaker 1: hole going down this video, that video, theories on this,
Speaker 1: like many a times, it's one of my favorite cases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I want to watch this YouTube, yeah, video
Speaker 2: that you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Well, like I said, well linked below and of course
Speaker 1: you'll see it before that.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's the case. There you have, huh wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I appreciate you guys being here and listening
Speaker 1: and talking with us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks so much
Speaker 1: And make sure you guys stay wicked.