WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Dan Pfeifer. You're about

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<v Speaker 1>to hear a great conversation I just had with Leah Littman,

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<v Speaker 1>a law professor, co host of Perkymedia, Strict Scrutiny, an

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<v Speaker 1>author of Lawless, how the Supreme Court runs on conservative rievances,

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<v Speaker 1>fringe theories, and bad vibes. We talked about this week's

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<v Speaker 1>monumental Supreme Court decisions on the Trump administration's immigration policy,

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<v Speaker 1>what's making Leah anxious about the upcoming decision on birthright citizenship,

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<v Speaker 1>and the legacy of Roe v. Wade, including how it's

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<v Speaker 1>playing in the race to unseat Susan Collins in Maine.

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<v Speaker 1>We also talked about some of the other decisions we're

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<v Speaker 1>expecting to come out of the Court soon, including decisions

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<v Speaker 1>on mail ballots, trans participation in sports, and the independence

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<v Speaker 1>of the Federal Reserve. It was a great conversation and

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<v Speaker 1>we'll get to in a minute, but before we do,

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<v Speaker 1>please consider becoming a paid subscribe to Friends of the Pod.

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<v Speaker 1>That's crooked dot com slash Yes we Dan. All right,

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<v Speaker 1>here's my conversation with Leah Litman. Leah Littman, welcome back

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<v Speaker 1>to pot Save America.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Under these great circumstances. So originally when we schede visually

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<v Speaker 1>we schedule this, we thought there was a chance the

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court would have released all of its big monumental

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<v Speaker 1>decisions at the end of this quarter per usual, Sam Malito,

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<v Speaker 1>John Roberts has screwed up our best laid plans. But

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<v Speaker 1>they have released a number of very important decisions that

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to you about it. And then

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<v Speaker 1>I want to talk about the decisions that are looming

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<v Speaker 1>that are doomed to possibly ruined many people's Fourth of

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<v Speaker 1>July break. Let us start with the case that I

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<v Speaker 1>think has the most impact for the most people.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I just start with the timing point?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh please, please do please.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because it's not just that you thought they would

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<v Speaker 2>finish by the end of this week. It's that traditionally

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<v Speaker 2>and historically, the Court has finished releasing opinions and argued

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<v Speaker 2>cases before the holiday week. And these guys have one

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<v Speaker 2>fucking job and they're not even doing that right, Like,

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<v Speaker 2>they cannot bother to do law, and yet they can't

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<v Speaker 2>finish according to schedule. Despite loving history and tradition, they

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<v Speaker 2>cannot conform to this most basic tradition about how the

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 1>Works, which is important for many reasons, but primarily for

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<v Speaker 1>podcast recording.

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<v Speaker 2>Schill exactly, yes, exactly, super inconvenient.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So this is important point to make. I'm glad

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<v Speaker 1>you made that point. I want to start with the

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<v Speaker 1>case that I think has the most impact on the

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<v Speaker 1>most people. This is the sixth to three decision. Everyone

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<v Speaker 1>listening and guess who the six and who the three

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<v Speaker 1>there are that will allow the Trump administration to rescind

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<v Speaker 1>temporary protective status for three hundred fifty thousand Haitian immigrants.

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<v Speaker 1>This case is about a lot of things. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>big deal. Talk to me about what was at stake

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<v Speaker 1>in this case and what the ruling says.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, this case is so maddening. I have

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<v Speaker 2>just become angrier about it with every passing hour. So

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<v Speaker 2>the case involved actually two different revocations of the Temporary

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<v Speaker 2>Protected Status program, and TPS is a method where the

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<v Speaker 2>executive branch can offer immigration relief to individuals who undergo

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<v Speaker 2>a rigorous vetting process who are from certain countries when

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<v Speaker 2>returning them to those countries would be horrific because of

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<v Speaker 2>conditions in those countries. And so Haiti was one such country.

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<v Speaker 2>After devastating natural disasters coupled with, you know, the basic

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<v Speaker 2>failure of the government, it's super dangerous to be in Haiti,

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<v Speaker 2>and so temporary protective status was offered, so too with

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<v Speaker 2>respect to Syrian nationals, and so early on in the

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<v Speaker 2>Trump administration Fall twenty twenty five, Christin Nomes says we're

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<v Speaker 2>just going to end these TPS programs for individuals from

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<v Speaker 2>several different countries, and those decisions to end the program

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<v Speaker 2>were challenged and these cases involved challenges to the end

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<v Speaker 2>of TPS for Haitian nationals and Syria nationals by Statute Congress.

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<v Speaker 2>Because of the importance of the TPS program to people's lives,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they structured their lives around being able to

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<v Speaker 2>live and work in the United States required the Executive

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<v Speaker 2>Branch to undergo a fairly rigorous process before deciding to

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<v Speaker 2>end TPS, and specifically, the Executive Branch had to consult

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<v Speaker 2>among different agencies to determine that conditions in that country

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<v Speaker 2>were indeed sufficiently different that ending TPS was justified. And

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<v Speaker 2>there's almost no question that the Trump administration didn't do

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<v Speaker 2>that with the back to Haiti. In particular, emails suggest

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<v Speaker 2>that the Department of Homeland Security asked the State Department

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<v Speaker 2>to weigh in about conditions in Haiti and then went

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<v Speaker 2>ahead and canceled TBS before State Department even weighed in.

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<v Speaker 2>That's not actually consultation, and I don't think there's any

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<v Speaker 2>argument on that point. You add to that the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that the President said vile, horrible, grotesque things about Haitian nationals,

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<v Speaker 2>and it sure looks like they decided to NTBs not

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<v Speaker 2>because conditions in Haiti had changed, but because the President

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<v Speaker 2>just wanted to fulfill Steven Miller's white supremacist immigration dreams.

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<v Speaker 2>And so those were the challenges that the Trump administration

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<v Speaker 2>violated statutes by not following the required processes and violated

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<v Speaker 2>the Constitution by implementing this policy out of racial animus,

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<v Speaker 2>discriminating on the basis of race. And in the six

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<v Speaker 2>to three opinion, sam Alito was like, I don't care,

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<v Speaker 2>do you know? On the statutory arguments? He said, who

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<v Speaker 2>cares whether or not they complied with statute? Courts can't

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<v Speaker 2>review whether they violated the statute or not.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's a new finding right.

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<v Speaker 2>That is a new, entirely new rule. For decades, it

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<v Speaker 2>has been understood that even though the statutes don't allow

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<v Speaker 2>courts to second guess the secretary's determination ultimate determination about

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<v Speaker 2>whether to end TPS, they do allow courts to ensure

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<v Speaker 2>that the Secretary followed the required process to ensure sound

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<v Speaker 2>decision making. And sam Alito and co. Wipe away all

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<v Speaker 2>of those rules and render all of these statutes unenforceable.

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<v Speaker 2>They're basically guidelines at this point. The executive branch faces

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<v Speaker 2>no consequences for openly flouting them. Donald Trump Mark Wayne

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<v Speaker 2>Mullen could stand up tomorrow and say we're not going

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<v Speaker 2>to follow these statutes and there's not a thing that

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<v Speaker 2>courts could do about it.

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<v Speaker 1>In the rule I want to get to the comments

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<v Speaker 1>in a minute. In the racial I think that's very

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<v Speaker 1>important and really plays a big role in why the

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<v Speaker 1>decision is so mending. In the opinion about lead US amending.

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<v Speaker 1>But what is the reason? You know, it seems like

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty basic thing. Congress rights laws. The executive must

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<v Speaker 1>follow said laws. If the executive does not follow those laws,

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<v Speaker 1>someone who has standing sues and the courts come in

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<v Speaker 1>and say you did not follow those laws, you must

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<v Speaker 1>do something different. Is there something that they find an

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<v Speaker 1>inherent authority of the president immigration? What is the basis

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<v Speaker 1>for saying the laws don't apply on this particular issue.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so wild to hear you say that, because this,

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunately was a theme of almost all of the court's

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<v Speaker 2>decisions from this last week, saying that people whose rights

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<v Speaker 2>were violated can't do a thing about it, can't sue

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<v Speaker 2>a challenge in federal court. So here their rationale was

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<v Speaker 2>Congress had actually decided to impose these rules on the

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<v Speaker 2>executive branch and to foreclose the possibility that courts could

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<v Speaker 2>review whether the executive branch complied with those rules, So

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<v Speaker 2>they put the decision at Congress's feet rather than saying

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<v Speaker 2>the Constitution doesn't allow courts to review those determinations.

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<v Speaker 1>So now let's get to the racial animis point and

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<v Speaker 1>why that matters here, because I think for people who

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<v Speaker 1>have been following this saga for a long time, the

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<v Speaker 1>Haitian immigrants are the ones that Trump and Jade Vance

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<v Speaker 1>and the entire MAGA media accused during the twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four campaign of eating the pets in Ohio. Right, That's

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<v Speaker 1>what we're talking about here, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and it wasn't just that it is. The President

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<v Speaker 2>said people from Haiti have aids. He called it a

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<v Speaker 2>shithole country. He said they were Haitian nationals poisoning the

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<v Speaker 2>blood of the country. A bunch of racist, vile remarks.

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<v Speaker 2>And sam Alido does not even have the backbone to

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<v Speaker 2>recite those remarks in his opinion, he just declares they're

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<v Speaker 2>not overtly racial. I have no idea what that means.

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<v Speaker 2>Given that the President also said he wanted to admit

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<v Speaker 2>more people from Sweden and Norway. Again, he tried to say,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess there's xenophobic and really about opposition to immigration policy,

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<v Speaker 2>which makes no sense. And also in any case, I

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand why that would be constitutional. And if he

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<v Speaker 2>cannot bring himself to recite the remarks of the person

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<v Speaker 2>who he's saying isn't racist, I think that's a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>big indication that maybe the person is racist and saying

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<v Speaker 2>racist things. But he just kind of said nothing to

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<v Speaker 2>see here and legalized what the president did and said.

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<v Speaker 1>And so this means for patients that they're three and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty thousand out them, I believe many of them is

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<v Speaker 1>this country for quite a while now. I think TV

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<v Speaker 1>has been run for.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost a decade, right, yea, yeah, more than a decade.

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<v Speaker 1>And so these people can all be deported now either

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<v Speaker 1>in there when they go to the because you have

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<v Speaker 1>to go to a regular check in, right, and so

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<v Speaker 1>they go to the next time they encounter a nice

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<v Speaker 1>officer or CVP officer, they could be deported. Same is

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<v Speaker 1>true of Syrians. Now. I know Stephen Miller was on

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<v Speaker 1>Fox News minimiz the dangers in Haiti and comparing it

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<v Speaker 1>to Chicago, Saint Louis, Los Angeles, but Syria seems like

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<v Speaker 1>a harder case to make that this is a totally

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<v Speaker 1>safe and fine place to go back to.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think Haiti is a really maybe even

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<v Speaker 2>tougher than Syria.

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<v Speaker 3>Action.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, exactly, and so this would be the largest delegalization

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<v Speaker 2>in United States history. So, while these cases specifically are

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<v Speaker 2>about Haitian nationals and Syrian nationals, the Trump administration has

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<v Speaker 2>attempted to end temporary protected status for individuals from other countries,

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<v Speaker 2>including Venezuela, Nicaragua, El Salvador, and Moore. You know, when

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<v Speaker 2>Trump took office, there were more than a million people

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<v Speaker 2>living in the United States with temporary protected status, and

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly all of those people potentially lose their legal authorization

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<v Speaker 2>to remain in the United States. And your point about

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<v Speaker 2>check ins just drives home. The people they are penalizing

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<v Speaker 2>are the people who followed the immigration rules. They underwent

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<v Speaker 2>this vetting process, They do check ins with immigration officers,

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<v Speaker 2>and so now the federal government knows who they are,

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<v Speaker 2>where they are, and could be poised to effectuate these

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<v Speaker 2>mass deportations. In her descent, Justics Kagan says, as a

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<v Speaker 2>result of the court's order, they're basically telling the executive branch.

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<v Speaker 2>You can put these people on the next plane and

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<v Speaker 2>send them off. And it's just cruel what the Supreme

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<v Speaker 2>Court is potentially allowing and inviting the Trump administration to

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<v Speaker 2>do so.

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<v Speaker 1>For the non Syrians, non Haitians who have protected that

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<v Speaker 1>its like you mentioned Venezuelan's or we're also talking about

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<v Speaker 1>people from Afghanistan, many of whom fled after the fall

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<v Speaker 1>of the Afghani government, people who helped the American military

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<v Speaker 1>and diplomats there, talking about Ukrainian refugees, all these other groups.

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<v Speaker 1>Can the Trump administration now just sign a piece of

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<v Speaker 1>paper and remove their tps or go through the fake

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<v Speaker 1>process and even they don't even have to go through anymore, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>are we just like one Stephen Miller email away from

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<v Speaker 1>all from one point two million or whatever it is

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<v Speaker 1>people potentially being deported potentially?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, And there have been cases challenging the recissions of

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<v Speaker 2>the other temporary protected status programs as well. But in

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<v Speaker 2>light of this decision telling courts they can't review any

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<v Speaker 2>of the statutory claims and excusing the president's gut or racism,

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to be really hard for any court to

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<v Speaker 2>pause those recisions.

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<v Speaker 1>Great, So this is not this is on us is

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<v Speaker 1>truly terrible, and so then we have been sec We

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<v Speaker 1>had a second immigration decision that came down. Now, this

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<v Speaker 1>one is less immediate in its consequences and hinges as

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<v Speaker 1>I understand it, on the meeting of the word arrive

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<v Speaker 1>in immigration law. Can you explain this is another six

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<v Speaker 1>to three with the typical six and the typical three decision.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you explain what's going on in this case?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So this case is about the meaning of asylum

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<v Speaker 2>law under international law and statues of Congress has passed.

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<v Speaker 2>Individuals who arrive in the United States are entitled to

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<v Speaker 2>claim asylum, and they are entitled to have their asylum

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<v Speaker 2>claim assessed in a legitimate process and procedure. What the

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court said is an individual doesn't arrive in the

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<v Speaker 2>United States, and therefore they aren't entitled to claim asylum

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<v Speaker 2>or have their asylum claim assessed if they are stopped

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<v Speaker 2>outside of the physical borders of the United States. As

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<v Speaker 2>Justice Sotomayora pointed out in her dissent, this creates a

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<v Speaker 2>giant loophole. It tells the executive branch, so long as

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<v Speaker 2>you physically block people from entering the United States, you

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<v Speaker 2>do not have to consider their asylum applications. You can

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<v Speaker 2>just turn them away wholesale. And that decision was entirely unnecessary.

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<v Speaker 2>Part of what is so I think heinous both about

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<v Speaker 2>the asylum case and the TPS case, is that the

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<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court did not have to reach them on this

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<v Speaker 2>asylum case. The case originated as a challenge to a

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<v Speaker 2>policy that isn't in existence. It was a challenge to

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<v Speaker 2>the so called metering policy that began almost a decade ago,

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<v Speaker 2>and under that policy, immigration officials would turn away people

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<v Speaker 2>and say we can't process your asylum applications if the

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<v Speaker 2>quota for the number of individuals who could be processed

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<v Speaker 2>at the border had been met. That policy was ended.

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<v Speaker 2>There was not, in effect any policy that presented this

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<v Speaker 2>question about whether the Trump administration could refuse to process

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<v Speaker 2>asylum applications from people who they stopped outside the border. Instead,

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<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court went ahead and just told them, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we've decided you could do this thing that you may

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<v Speaker 2>want to do, and therefore paved the way for them

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<v Speaker 2>to implement another callous immigration policy.

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<v Speaker 1>And so in the original meeting policy, which began at

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the Obama administration, YEP you would show

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<v Speaker 1>up and they would say, we just had there are

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<v Speaker 1>too many people today, We're not going to be able

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<v Speaker 1>to get to your case. Come back tomorrow, yes, and

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<v Speaker 1>we will look at your case. And so at that

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<v Speaker 1>point it wasn't an attempt to deny them. It was

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<v Speaker 1>essentially recognizing, you've shown up at the door. We can't

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<v Speaker 1>let you in the door. We're acknowledging you have the

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<v Speaker 1>right to make your assalud case and we are going

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<v Speaker 1>to or we're going to allow you to do that

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<v Speaker 1>on a different day when there is an actual someone

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<v Speaker 1>who can hear it. Basically right, Yes, that was the

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<v Speaker 1>And so now this seems like such an insanely stupid

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<v Speaker 1>decision on so many levels, because it doesn't it seem

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<v Speaker 1>to argue that if you are someone who has a

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<v Speaker 1>you believe you have a legitimate asylum case, you're a

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<v Speaker 1>company's United States to avail yourself off your human right

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<v Speaker 1>to seek asylum consistent with our laws and traditions. You

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<v Speaker 1>are better off sneaking across the border exactly and getting

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<v Speaker 1>caught and then claiming in a solumn case, then showing

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<v Speaker 1>up at the front door and asking to present your case.

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<v Speaker 2>This decision is unhinged as Just as Sotamawyer wrote in

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<v Speaker 2>her dissent, the consequences are predictable. More people will die,

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<v Speaker 2>and among the reasons is it creates this incentive for

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<v Speaker 2>people to try to sneak across the border, because only

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<v Speaker 2>if they manage to get into the United States borders

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<v Speaker 2>would they be able to claim asylum. This is another

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<v Speaker 2>example of the Supreme Court adopting a rule that penalizes

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<v Speaker 2>people who are trying to comply with immigration law by

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<v Speaker 2>presenting themselves at the border and trying to assert an

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<v Speaker 2>asylum claim.

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<v Speaker 1>It's basically funneling them into these trafficking organizations that are

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<v Speaker 1>making money to get them into the country as a tho.

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<v Speaker 1>Just it's so to me, that's what it seems so

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<v Speaker 1>insane about it. And so the net result of this,

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<v Speaker 1>other than the consequence of the people who then now

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<v Speaker 1>get injured, get hurt, get killed, are trafficked. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>young women and children who go to these groups end

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<v Speaker 1>up in very bad places, often in an attempt to

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<v Speaker 1>get the United States. What is going to happen is

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<v Speaker 1>the Steven Miller could just tell the CVP don't let

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<v Speaker 1>anyone like exact, no one, no one gets in, so

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<v Speaker 1>we will not recognize any legitimate asylum claims that come

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<v Speaker 1>in through the normal process.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it does not matter if someone could prove beyond

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<v Speaker 2>a reasonable doubt that they would be persecuted, tortured, killed

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00:16:59.799 --> 00:17:03.080
<v Speaker 2>in their home country, the administration can just refuse to

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<v Speaker 2>consider that.

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<v Speaker 1>Now. In this I learned from your very the very

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<v Speaker 1>excellent Emergency Strict Scrutiny podcast. You guys that did that

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<v Speaker 1>came out today yesterday?

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<v Speaker 2>What is today? Time doesn't mean anymore, it's June Friday.

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<v Speaker 1>I listened to it this morning. But that during the

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<v Speaker 1>release of this decision, that's something very dramatic and quite

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<v Speaker 1>and perhaps unprecedented the history of the Supreme Court happening.

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<v Speaker 1>You could you lay that out for.

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<v Speaker 2>Us, So it's not entirely unprecedented, although it's deeply rare.

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<v Speaker 2>By tradition, what happens is when the Supreme Court releases

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<v Speaker 2>an opinion, the author of the majority opinion will provide

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<v Speaker 2>some remarks and offer a brief summary of their case. Occasionally,

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<v Speaker 2>but only in rare circumstances, will the author of the

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<v Speaker 2>descent then proceed to summarize their descent and reading portions

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<v Speaker 2>of your descent from the bench is reserved for very

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<v Speaker 2>strongly held descents where you want to signal of very obvious,

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<v Speaker 2>strong objection to what the majority has done. So in

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<v Speaker 2>the asylum case, Justice So Too Mayor read portions of

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<v Speaker 2>her descent and then sam Alito proceeded to respond and

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<v Speaker 2>having the author of the majority opinion respond after the

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<v Speaker 2>author of the descent summarizes their descent has happened maybe

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<v Speaker 2>once or twice before. And Alito also intimated that well,

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<v Speaker 2>had he known Justice So Too Mayor would have summarized

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<v Speaker 2>more of her descent, he definitely had additional things he

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<v Speaker 2>would have said because he could totally rebut all of

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<v Speaker 2>her arguments, and it's just so petulant and yeah, unbefitting

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<v Speaker 2>a justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, this is a long pattern of behavior

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<v Speaker 1>for Samuel Aledo, going back to the twenty ten Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>State of the Union, where he was so set that

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<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama deigned disagree with the decision to allow corporations

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<v Speaker 1>billionaires to buy our political system that he had to

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<v Speaker 1>react viscerally and loudly during the he had basically had

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<v Speaker 1>to hackle the present United States.

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<v Speaker 2>Exactly exactly you think, right, The Tea party or whoever

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<v Speaker 2>else invented hackling at the State.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the Union.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, no, no, Sweet.

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<v Speaker 2>Summer Child, it was sam Alito.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, a man who clearly has infulse control problems. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly when criticized, perhaps by.

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<v Speaker 2>Coins definition of a judicial temperament.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, when criticized by people who buy quins as having

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<v Speaker 1>to be people of color the box in particularly.

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<v Speaker 4>This podcast is sponsored by Squarespace. Squarespace is the on

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<v Speaker 3>Podtavemeric has brought you by sleep me quick question. When

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<v Speaker 3>was the last time you went to bed before midnight

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<v Speaker 3>without your phone beaming blue lighted into your weary little eyes? Lastday, night,

382
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:54.680
<v Speaker 3>last night? Nothing, you go to sleep early.

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<v Speaker 1>Nothing.

384
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:56.960
<v Speaker 3>Beer is worse with trying to fall asleep than having

385
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:58.839
<v Speaker 3>a full breakdown of the latest news cycle running on

386
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:01.440
<v Speaker 3>a loop in your head. Here's what's happening. The stress,

387
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.799
<v Speaker 3>the screen time, it all raises your core body temperature,

388
00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:06.160
<v Speaker 3>and a body that's too warm cannot get into deep sleep.

389
00:21:06.480 --> 00:21:08.759
<v Speaker 3>You're not just tired because the news is exhausting. You're

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00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.039
<v Speaker 3>tired because your body never actually recovered from the day.

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00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:12.519
<v Speaker 3>The good news is that you can do something about it,

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00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.160
<v Speaker 3>and it's simpler than you think. Lower your bed temperature.

393
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<v Speaker 3>Sure you could develop better habits of mind and your

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00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.240
<v Speaker 3>Chilibad two point oh, the water based mattress topper that

395
00:21:21.279 --> 00:21:23.400
<v Speaker 3>actively controls your bed temperature from fifty five to one

396
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:27.039
<v Speaker 3>hundred and fifteen degrees all night long, all night. No

397
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.359
<v Speaker 3>new mattress, no renovation, It fits over what you already have.

398
00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Chili Bad two point zero actively cools or warms your

399
00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:35.119
<v Speaker 3>bed using water, and water is key here. Chilibad uses

400
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:38.279
<v Speaker 3>actively chilled water to cool your bed, actually pulling heat

401
00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:40.200
<v Speaker 3>away from your body. It's like the difference between standing

402
00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:42.119
<v Speaker 3>in front of a fan and jumping into a cold pool.

403
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:44.359
<v Speaker 3>The new two point oh comes with a redesigned dock,

404
00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:47.519
<v Speaker 3>quieter than ever, with a larger internal tank. The topper

405
00:21:47.559 --> 00:21:50.160
<v Speaker 3>itself is now a premium performance grade cover that unzips

406
00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:52.640
<v Speaker 3>for easy washing and has built in waterproof protection. And

407
00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:54.559
<v Speaker 3>unlike a lot of tech out there, there's no subscription.

408
00:21:54.599 --> 00:21:56.359
<v Speaker 3>You buy it, you own it. Two year warranty designed

409
00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.799
<v Speaker 3>and assembled in the USA, just north of Charlotte. The

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00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.039
<v Speaker 3>Chili pad I have the one point I'm an upgrade

411
00:22:03.039 --> 00:22:05.559
<v Speaker 3>to the two point zero, and basically you bet has

412
00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:08.559
<v Speaker 3>an air conditioner on it. You can make it warm

413
00:22:08.559 --> 00:22:10.599
<v Speaker 3>when you're cold. You can make it cold when you're warm.

414
00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:11.119
<v Speaker 1>You can.

415
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:12.759
<v Speaker 3>You know what I'd like to do is I set

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00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:14.799
<v Speaker 3>it really cold before I go to sleep and I'm

417
00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.000
<v Speaker 3>watching TV, and then right before bed I raise the temperature.

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00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:21.039
<v Speaker 3>Interesting because then as I'm falling to sleep, it's cool,

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00:22:21.279 --> 00:22:22.680
<v Speaker 3>but then I'm not cold in the night.

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00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:25.559
<v Speaker 4>Oh okay, that's interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>Visit www dot sleep, dot me slash crookeet to get

422
00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:31.200
<v Speaker 3>up to two hundred and fifty five dollars off your

423
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:34.519
<v Speaker 3>Chili Pad two point zero with code crooked. That's www

424
00:22:34.599 --> 00:22:39.119
<v Speaker 3>dot sleep s l e E P dot m slash crooked,

425
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:41.160
<v Speaker 3>free shipping and free returns in a thirty night trial

426
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:42.839
<v Speaker 3>so you can test it out, dream big, and wake

427
00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 3>up better. The headlines will still be there in the morning,

428
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:47.039
<v Speaker 3>boy will they. You might as well wake up ready

429
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.519
<v Speaker 3>for them.

430
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Another big case happened here, and this one caused

431
00:22:54.480 --> 00:22:56.279
<v Speaker 1>a different corner of the Internet to be a flame.

432
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:59.759
<v Speaker 1>The Maha corner of the Internet is very upset about

433
00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:04.400
<v Speaker 1>a case where the Supreme Court tossed out a suit

434
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:09.440
<v Speaker 1>against Monsanto's parent company involving claims that the weed killer

435
00:23:09.519 --> 00:23:13.240
<v Speaker 1>round up caused cancer. And this one is interesting because

436
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.880
<v Speaker 1>this is not our traditional six to three group of

437
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:18.799
<v Speaker 1>the sixth, the three we know and love, and the

438
00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:23.279
<v Speaker 1>sixth we have come to detest in many cases. This

439
00:23:23.359 --> 00:23:25.440
<v Speaker 1>is a seven to two decision where Kagan and Soda

440
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:29.519
<v Speaker 1>Mayor actually were with the majority and Katachi Brown Jackson

441
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:31.799
<v Speaker 1>and of course which I believe we're with. We're the

442
00:23:31.839 --> 00:23:34.359
<v Speaker 1>ones who dissented. Talk to me about this case and

443
00:23:34.680 --> 00:23:36.559
<v Speaker 1>did the majority get it right in this one?

444
00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:41.359
<v Speaker 2>So the case is about the Federal Insecticide, Fungicide and

445
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:48.119
<v Speaker 2>Redenticide Act, or FIFFRA.

446
00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:47.160
<v Speaker 1>As as we call it.

447
00:23:47.240 --> 00:23:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes, Shaw has called this one of her favorite statutes.

448
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:53.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but it's a federal law that

449
00:23:54.039 --> 00:23:58.440
<v Speaker 2>gives the EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, the authority to

450
00:23:58.480 --> 00:24:03.920
<v Speaker 2>regulate pesticides. And what happens is companies submit their proposed

451
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:06.400
<v Speaker 2>label for their pesticide to the EPA and then the

452
00:24:06.440 --> 00:24:08.960
<v Speaker 2>EPA signs off on them. And the question in this

453
00:24:09.079 --> 00:24:13.960
<v Speaker 2>case is whether an individual could sue a pesticide manufacturer

454
00:24:14.480 --> 00:24:18.880
<v Speaker 2>saying that the label that the EPA had approved did

455
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:23.920
<v Speaker 2>not contain enough information to adequately warn them about the

456
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.359
<v Speaker 2>danger of the product. And so here the allegation was

457
00:24:27.920 --> 00:24:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Monsantos product roundup contains an ingredient that causes cancer and

458
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:36.799
<v Speaker 2>that's not disclosed on the EPA warning label. And so

459
00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.599
<v Speaker 2>what the Supreme Court said here is this statute gives

460
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:44.720
<v Speaker 2>the EPA and the EPA alone the authority to determine

461
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.559
<v Speaker 2>what goes on a label, and the label can only

462
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.920
<v Speaker 2>be changed if the EPA orders a change or if

463
00:24:51.960 --> 00:24:57.240
<v Speaker 2>the EPA approves a change. Private parties states they can't

464
00:24:57.359 --> 00:25:03.799
<v Speaker 2>impose additional requirements beyond what the EPA has decided is warranted.

465
00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:06.759
<v Speaker 1>And so where do you come down on this as

466
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:09.119
<v Speaker 1>as a law professor, legals call yourself.

467
00:25:09.599 --> 00:25:13.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think the Court probably got it right here,

468
00:25:14.240 --> 00:25:18.319
<v Speaker 2>in part because the agency has a lot of authority

469
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:23.119
<v Speaker 2>over how these labels are made and what goes on them.

470
00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:28.440
<v Speaker 2>And I think there was a congressional choice to prioritize

471
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:32.880
<v Speaker 2>uniformity over other considerations and wanting a single process, a

472
00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:35.720
<v Speaker 2>single decision maker to determine what goes on these labels

473
00:25:35.759 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and valuing the EPA's expertise over the expertise of say,

474
00:25:39.759 --> 00:25:43.960
<v Speaker 2>state juries or state decision makers. And that's a choice.

475
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.400
<v Speaker 2>Congress considered the pluses and minuses, and I think the

476
00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:51.200
<v Speaker 2>Court was probably right to say, we need to respect

477
00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:55.000
<v Speaker 2>the choice that Congress has made. Now, I have other

478
00:25:55.319 --> 00:25:59.680
<v Speaker 2>issues with the Manzanto decision, just considered it in light

479
00:25:59.720 --> 00:26:01.440
<v Speaker 2>of some the other cases that the Court made, but

480
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:03.640
<v Speaker 2>I think standing alone, the Court probably got it right.

481
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:06.039
<v Speaker 1>And now this was about one specific case in misery,

482
00:26:06.079 --> 00:26:08.599
<v Speaker 1>but there are other suits against Monsanto out there that

483
00:26:08.640 --> 00:26:09.799
<v Speaker 1>will be tossed out because of this.

484
00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Exactly yes, yep.

485
00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:15.240
<v Speaker 1>And does this have an impact on broadly on corporate

486
00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:20.799
<v Speaker 1>liability or the ability of individuals to sue companies along

487
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:23.359
<v Speaker 1>lines or is it pretty specific to this one Fiffra

488
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.000
<v Speaker 1>If I'm exactly Fiffer related ruling.

489
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty specific to the Fiffra Statute itself, because the

490
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 2>Court focused on the fact that Congress, in that statute,

491
00:26:33.559 --> 00:26:36.799
<v Speaker 2>has a provision labeled uniformity, and in the statute gave

492
00:26:36.920 --> 00:26:40.640
<v Speaker 2>the EPA a bunch of authority over all stages of

493
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:43.319
<v Speaker 2>the labeling process. And that's not necessarily going to be

494
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:46.200
<v Speaker 2>true in other statutes. And so yes, it's going to

495
00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>insulate this set of corporations from this particular type of lawsuit,

496
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:51.599
<v Speaker 2>but not beyond that.

497
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 1>And could these individuals sue the EPA for the for

498
00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.319
<v Speaker 1>the label not being you know, fully fulsome enough to

499
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:02.000
<v Speaker 1>give them what they needed to know to make the

500
00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.160
<v Speaker 1>right decisions here or these people just kind of screwed.

501
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So they can file Administrative Procedure Act lawsuits against

502
00:27:07.839 --> 00:27:11.279
<v Speaker 2>the EPA and challenge the agency's actions with respect to

503
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.119
<v Speaker 2>these labels. That is not going to get them damages,

504
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, for any harm that they might have experienced

505
00:27:19.359 --> 00:27:21.559
<v Speaker 2>because of a failure of these warning labels. But they

506
00:27:21.599 --> 00:27:24.119
<v Speaker 2>could try to get the EPA to change them going forward.

507
00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:28.119
<v Speaker 1>And you said that you while this in a vacuum,

508
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:30.640
<v Speaker 1>maybe was the right decision, you have concerns more broadly,

509
00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.960
<v Speaker 1>I take it that is the fact that corporations are

510
00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:35.200
<v Speaker 1>like one million in oh in the Roberts Court over

511
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>the last twenty two years or whatever it is.

512
00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:42.599
<v Speaker 2>That would be the general labor of the objection. And

513
00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 2>even if you just look at the decisions from this

514
00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 2>past week, so Montando Corporations can't be sued for labels

515
00:27:50.400 --> 00:27:56.000
<v Speaker 2>that allegedly contain insufficient warnings that cause people to get cancer.

516
00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.359
<v Speaker 2>Earlier this week, the court said you can't sue corporations

517
00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:07.319
<v Speaker 2>for abetting human rights abuses that foreign governments commit. They said, corporations, however,

518
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 2>can sue foreign governments, namely Cuba, for taking their oil.

519
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:16.640
<v Speaker 2>They said individuals who are incarcerated, they cannot sue state

520
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:20.599
<v Speaker 2>officials who violate their religious freedom rights. They said TPS

521
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:23.799
<v Speaker 2>recipients can't suit a challenge the executive branch for violating

522
00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:29.359
<v Speaker 2>their rights under the statute. In another immigration case, they said, effectively,

523
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:34.559
<v Speaker 2>lawful permanent residents can't enforce this statute protecting their right

524
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:36.880
<v Speaker 2>to re enter the United States at the border. So

525
00:28:36.920 --> 00:28:40.480
<v Speaker 2>who gets to sue to enforce their rights? Corporations. You

526
00:28:40.559 --> 00:28:44.359
<v Speaker 2>can't sue corporations for violating international law, for potentially violating

527
00:28:44.400 --> 00:28:48.119
<v Speaker 2>state tort law. You can't sue state officials for violating

528
00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:51.599
<v Speaker 2>federal law. You can't sue federal officials for violating federal law.

529
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.599
<v Speaker 2>And so if you just aggregate all of these decisions together,

530
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.839
<v Speaker 2>it's like, Okay, who has rights, who doesn't? Corporations, everyone else.

531
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:01.640
<v Speaker 1>Bringing the TPS, And what's going to go back to

532
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.400
<v Speaker 1>something I meant to ask you before given this decision.

533
00:29:04.680 --> 00:29:10.640
<v Speaker 1>What would stop a president AOC, Gavin Newsome, Kamala Harris,

534
00:29:10.640 --> 00:29:14.440
<v Speaker 1>whoever else, from just deciding on day one that they

535
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:18.440
<v Speaker 1>wanted to grant tps to everyone from say Mexico.

536
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.200
<v Speaker 2>It's so funny you say that, Dan, because that was

537
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:24.799
<v Speaker 2>actually an argument in the case that the challengers said, Look,

538
00:29:24.799 --> 00:29:27.440
<v Speaker 2>if you completely insulate these decisions from review, they can

539
00:29:27.480 --> 00:29:30.240
<v Speaker 2>be abused in either direction. So in one of the

540
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:34.319
<v Speaker 2>final passages of the opinion, sam Alito suggests, well, look,

541
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.519
<v Speaker 2>the plaintiffs in these cases they throw out these hypotheticals,

542
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:43.519
<v Speaker 2>were not going to necessarily say those would be unreviewable,

543
00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:47.680
<v Speaker 2>but maybe Congress could fix them. And so there was

544
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.640
<v Speaker 2>this narrow potential caveat that the court reserved for itself

545
00:29:51.680 --> 00:29:55.720
<v Speaker 2>because they view themselves as the ultimate decision maker to

546
00:29:55.799 --> 00:30:00.680
<v Speaker 2>potentially say, maybe some wholesale abdugations might be reviewable.

547
00:30:01.559 --> 00:30:05.279
<v Speaker 1>So just per if, perchance, say a Democratic president wanted

548
00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:07.880
<v Speaker 1>to unveil themselves of the executive authority that they found

549
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:10.880
<v Speaker 1>inherited Donald Trump's actions, there was a way for them

550
00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:12.039
<v Speaker 1>to stop that from happening.

551
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Ding ding ding ding ding Perfect perfect, perfect.

552
00:30:15.160 --> 00:30:16.440
<v Speaker 1>Perfect goodness. Make sure you know I didn't go to

553
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:18.440
<v Speaker 1>law stable, but I'm sort of I'm picking up what's

554
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>happening here.

555
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:21.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, from these decisions, it's not clear sam Alito

556
00:30:21.359 --> 00:30:21.720
<v Speaker 2>did either.

557
00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:24.960
<v Speaker 1>That's fair enough, fair enough, Okay, Let's get to the

558
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:27.759
<v Speaker 1>cases that have not yet been released and will maybe

559
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.200
<v Speaker 1>release Monday or Tuesday of next week. We think, we hope,

560
00:30:30.200 --> 00:30:30.720
<v Speaker 1>who knows?

561
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Do we hope honestly? Like they're bad things?

562
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:37.119
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I hope, I hope for you, as someone

563
00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.160
<v Speaker 1>who has a podcast schedule, you have to get to

564
00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:42.000
<v Speaker 1>that that happens earlier in the week. Routh better, I

565
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:46.960
<v Speaker 1>would say for everyone Monday and Tuesday than Thursday, perhaps, Okay,

566
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:49.920
<v Speaker 1>all right. The biggest one is that everyone's waiting for

567
00:30:50.039 --> 00:30:56.759
<v Speaker 1>is the one on birthright citizenship. Everyone seems to think that,

568
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:00.440
<v Speaker 1>since the Constitution is quite explicit on this, it would

569
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>be seemingly impossible for the Supreme Court to do this.

570
00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:04.880
<v Speaker 1>You hit a piece of the contrarian where you raise

571
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:07.160
<v Speaker 1>some real question, you have some worries about this, or

572
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.640
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to hear what those worries are. And I

573
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:11.680
<v Speaker 1>think it also raises some measure of concern that they've

574
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:13.279
<v Speaker 1>been sitting on this, like this is something they could

575
00:31:13.279 --> 00:31:15.440
<v Speaker 1>have done in a one sentence order a year ago,

576
00:31:15.799 --> 00:31:19.319
<v Speaker 1>and we've been waiting and waiting and waiting, And just

577
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.920
<v Speaker 1>based on what I've read in Reserve, the fact that

578
00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:23.680
<v Speaker 1>they're waiting so long on this at least suggest that

579
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 1>there's something going on. So what is going on here?

580
00:31:26.039 --> 00:31:27.920
<v Speaker 1>Tell me about the case, Tell me about tell me

581
00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:30.720
<v Speaker 1>about why specifically you have worries about what this decision might say.

582
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:32.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So, the case is a challenge to the president's

583
00:31:32.920 --> 00:31:36.559
<v Speaker 2>executive order that purports to deny birthright citizenship to some

584
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:38.799
<v Speaker 2>people who are born in the United States, even though

585
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:41.440
<v Speaker 2>the first sentence of the fourteenth Amendment says all persons

586
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:43.880
<v Speaker 2>born and naturalized in the United States and subject to

587
00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 2>the jurisdiction thereof, shall be citizens. So it's a wildly

588
00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.599
<v Speaker 2>illegal executive order. And I think most people, even after

589
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:55.400
<v Speaker 2>the oral argument and even now, think it's more likely

590
00:31:55.480 --> 00:31:57.720
<v Speaker 2>than not that the Supreme Court will say that order

591
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:02.319
<v Speaker 2>can't be enforced and it's unconstitutional. But and this is

592
00:32:02.359 --> 00:32:06.839
<v Speaker 2>a big butt. The recent immigration decisions are really concerning

593
00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:11.920
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the Court adopted such broad reasoning in

594
00:32:11.960 --> 00:32:14.799
<v Speaker 2>cases where they didn't have to do so at all.

595
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I think is causing some people to rethink their confidence

596
00:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.759
<v Speaker 2>and what the Court might do on birthright. I think

597
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.319
<v Speaker 2>the delay could also signal that the decision isn't going

598
00:32:23.359 --> 00:32:26.240
<v Speaker 2>to be unanimous, and if it's not unanimous, that's going

599
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 2>to meaningfully alter the Overton window as far as what

600
00:32:29.200 --> 00:32:33.559
<v Speaker 2>people's understanding of our constitutional multiracial democracy is. You know,

601
00:32:33.599 --> 00:32:36.799
<v Speaker 2>if you have dissents by Justice Thomas and Alito, is

602
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:39.680
<v Speaker 2>birthright citizenship going to become a new litmus test for

603
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.960
<v Speaker 2>Republican appointees where the expectation is you will only be

604
00:32:44.000 --> 00:32:48.359
<v Speaker 2>selected for a judicial seat if you would overrule birthright citizenship,

605
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:51.119
<v Speaker 2>just like you could only be selected for a judicial

606
00:32:51.119 --> 00:32:55.160
<v Speaker 2>seat if you would overrule Roe versus Wade. It would

607
00:32:55.160 --> 00:32:57.799
<v Speaker 2>also invite, you know, future challenges to birthright down the road.

608
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:00.960
<v Speaker 2>So I think those are some of the things that

609
00:33:01.000 --> 00:33:05.680
<v Speaker 2>are on people's mind. But then there's this additional consideration

610
00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:08.000
<v Speaker 2>for me, which is, even if the Court does the

611
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:11.400
<v Speaker 2>right thing, I mean, they just cannot get all of

612
00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:13.799
<v Speaker 2>the credit and all of the plaudits that are inevitably

613
00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:16.440
<v Speaker 2>going to be heaped on them for standing up to

614
00:33:16.480 --> 00:33:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the president when as we were just talking about. They

615
00:33:18.920 --> 00:33:23.160
<v Speaker 2>bent over backwards to greenlight some of the more xenophobic,

616
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 2>white nationalist elements of his immigration agenda when they didn't

617
00:33:26.599 --> 00:33:29.640
<v Speaker 2>have to do so. They are the ones that created

618
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.559
<v Speaker 2>the need for this case on birthright citizenship and indeed

619
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:37.039
<v Speaker 2>demanded that the federal government bring the case to them

620
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.880
<v Speaker 2>when last year in the nationwide injunction case, they refuse

621
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>to just come out and say, even if lower courts

622
00:33:43.559 --> 00:33:46.680
<v Speaker 2>can't block this policy on a nationwide basis, we Supreme

623
00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.519
<v Speaker 2>Court kent because it's wildly unconstitutional. And instead they made

624
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:55.039
<v Speaker 2>the Solicitor General promise that he would appeal any unfavorable

625
00:33:55.119 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 2>ruling back to them to give them the opportunity to

626
00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:00.599
<v Speaker 2>be the hero. And so they were the ones that

627
00:34:00.759 --> 00:34:05.640
<v Speaker 2>created this potential opportunity for great pr for themselves that

628
00:34:05.680 --> 00:34:08.360
<v Speaker 2>will give them cover for who knows what else they

629
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 2>might do in addition to all of the terrible things

630
00:34:10.599 --> 00:34:11.480
<v Speaker 2>they've already done.

631
00:34:12.199 --> 00:34:16.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting because John Roberts is a very political individual,

632
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:19.480
<v Speaker 1>and he tries and he's not a very good political individual,

633
00:34:19.519 --> 00:34:20.760
<v Speaker 1>but he tries to be one. And so I can

634
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.960
<v Speaker 1>see in his simple minded view where he's like, we're

635
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:25.679
<v Speaker 1>gonna do all these terrible things, and then we're going

636
00:34:25.719 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 1>to head into fourth of July break with this decision.

637
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.280
<v Speaker 1>That will cause everyone to say, see, all those liberals

638
00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:34.000
<v Speaker 1>who want to expand the court and do term limits

639
00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:36.679
<v Speaker 1>and say we're a bunch of MAGA shills are wrong.

640
00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:39.960
<v Speaker 1>And then there will be a series of legal pundits

641
00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:42.039
<v Speaker 1>who will then applaud John Roberts, and he will write

642
00:34:42.039 --> 00:34:43.239
<v Speaker 1>off into the sunset is a hero.

643
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:43.559
<v Speaker 3>Right.

644
00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:46.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you say he's simple minded and not that great,

645
00:34:46.280 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 2>but the end of your sentence, I just think is correct.

646
00:34:48.960 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 2>When the Court, if and when the Court rules against

647
00:34:51.840 --> 00:34:55.920
<v Speaker 2>birthright citizenship, there will be all of those takes and

648
00:34:56.039 --> 00:34:59.280
<v Speaker 2>people talking about how the Court has stood up to

649
00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.159
<v Speaker 2>the president and isn't just in the bag for MAGA

650
00:35:02.280 --> 00:35:06.159
<v Speaker 2>and isn't on board with all of Trump's agenda. And therefore,

651
00:35:06.239 --> 00:35:09.320
<v Speaker 2>you libs and you progressives who want to reform the court,

652
00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:12.400
<v Speaker 2>what would you do if Donald Trump could reform the

653
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.039
<v Speaker 2>Court when he disagreed with it like that? There's going

654
00:35:15.079 --> 00:35:16.320
<v Speaker 2>to be so much of that.

655
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:20.320
<v Speaker 1>But those takes are why America's most popular and influential

656
00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:25.239
<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court podcast exists. Right, you will be you, You

657
00:35:25.360 --> 00:35:28.360
<v Speaker 1>Kate Mussel will be on that wall back against that.

658
00:35:28.519 --> 00:35:29.039
<v Speaker 1>I know that.

659
00:35:29.159 --> 00:35:31.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I mean we have been screaming about this for

660
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:32.639
<v Speaker 2>over a year.

661
00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:34.360
<v Speaker 1>At all, and trust to the Supreme Court is at

662
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.280
<v Speaker 1>an all time low. So don't think you're not You

663
00:35:36.280 --> 00:35:38.199
<v Speaker 1>have not put your wheel to the your shoulders to

664
00:35:38.199 --> 00:35:38.920
<v Speaker 1>the wheel of history.

665
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:44.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, yes, send strict scrutiny to more friends, challenge, but no,

666
00:35:44.440 --> 00:35:47.280
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's not to say it's going to work,

667
00:35:47.320 --> 00:35:50.199
<v Speaker 2>but it is going to generate some of the coverage

668
00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:54.840
<v Speaker 2>that they want, and it's just going to be annoying

669
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:56.000
<v Speaker 2>as fuck when it does.

670
00:35:56.320 --> 00:35:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Yes, So let's say hypothetically this is a seven to

671
00:35:59.400 --> 00:36:02.119
<v Speaker 1>two decisions and in you know, Alito and Thomas or

672
00:36:02.159 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 1>whoever else they are against it. Can you fathom in

673
00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>your brain what that argument would be like? It is

674
00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.719
<v Speaker 1>hard to find something as plain text as this in

675
00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 1>the with as with as a simple and specific application

676
00:36:19.239 --> 00:36:20.920
<v Speaker 1>as this. You know, It's like, obviously freedom of speech

677
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:22.119
<v Speaker 1>is in there, but then they are all kinds of

678
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:24.559
<v Speaker 1>different applications you can take on it. This is basically like,

679
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:27.519
<v Speaker 1>if this happens, you are a citizen and Trump and

680
00:36:27.880 --> 00:36:31.519
<v Speaker 1>administration is arguing if this happens you are not a citizen, Like,

681
00:36:31.559 --> 00:36:34.480
<v Speaker 1>what is the what is the the legal argument someone

682
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:37.079
<v Speaker 1>could muster as bullshit and fake as it would be

683
00:36:37.639 --> 00:36:40.559
<v Speaker 1>that would say that birthright citizen is not a lot kid.

684
00:36:40.559 --> 00:36:43.760
<v Speaker 1>They could be curtailed or stopped by it by an administration.

685
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:44.360
<v Speaker 5>Ah.

686
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So, having ventured into the dark recesses of right

687
00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:50.360
<v Speaker 2>wing legal circles, I can offer you at least two.

688
00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:55.559
<v Speaker 2>So one would be to say that there is a

689
00:36:55.599 --> 00:37:00.280
<v Speaker 2>recognized exception for birthright citizenship, that birthright citizenship do not

690
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.800
<v Speaker 2>extend to the children of invading armies. You know, if,

691
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:09.039
<v Speaker 2>for example, Canada decided to invade the United States, and

692
00:37:09.239 --> 00:37:12.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, officers who participated in that invasion had children

693
00:37:12.960 --> 00:37:15.880
<v Speaker 2>born in the United States while they did so, then

694
00:37:16.039 --> 00:37:18.639
<v Speaker 2>those children would not be citizens of the United States.

695
00:37:18.880 --> 00:37:23.119
<v Speaker 2>And some on the right have argued that unauthorized immigration

696
00:37:23.519 --> 00:37:27.199
<v Speaker 2>is the equivalent of an invasion of the United States,

697
00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:29.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, borrowing on great replacement theory and other white

698
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:33.559
<v Speaker 2>nationalist tropes. And so one possible legal theory is the

699
00:37:33.679 --> 00:37:39.519
<v Speaker 2>justices could equate unlawful unauthorized immigration with an invasion and

700
00:37:39.559 --> 00:37:42.159
<v Speaker 2>say children who were born to individuals without legal status

701
00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:44.280
<v Speaker 2>in the United States are the equivalent of the children

702
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:48.800
<v Speaker 2>of invading armies. That's one possibility. Another possibility is the

703
00:37:48.840 --> 00:37:52.760
<v Speaker 2>court basically reads the exceptions to be the rule. So

704
00:37:53.079 --> 00:37:56.360
<v Speaker 2>the phrase, as we were talking about in the fourteenth

705
00:37:56.400 --> 00:37:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Amendment is all persons born and naturalized in the United

706
00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:03.599
<v Speaker 2>States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof are citizens. And

707
00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.320
<v Speaker 2>part of that exception recognizes that children of foreign diplomats,

708
00:38:09.440 --> 00:38:12.400
<v Speaker 2>for example, you know, they are not born as United

709
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:15.840
<v Speaker 2>States citizens, just like children of invading armies aren't United

710
00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:18.840
<v Speaker 2>States citizens. And so part of the federal government's argument

711
00:38:19.239 --> 00:38:24.760
<v Speaker 2>is to basically take those quite narrow exceptions and generalize

712
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:29.599
<v Speaker 2>them into a rule that basically swallows the rule of birthright.

713
00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:33.920
<v Speaker 2>That says, well, individuals whose parents don't have an allegiance

714
00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:39.719
<v Speaker 2>to the United States, their children can't be citizens. And

715
00:38:39.760 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Speaker 2>so those are two possible avenues. Both are ridiculous, and

716
00:38:46.199 --> 00:38:49.880
<v Speaker 2>I think rest on underlying racist tropes about who is

717
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:54.960
<v Speaker 2>sufficiently American that birthright citizenship was intended to Rebut that's

718
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:58.039
<v Speaker 2>exactly what dreads God versus Sandford did when it concluded

719
00:38:58.079 --> 00:39:00.800
<v Speaker 2>that individuals who are descendants of its slaves persons couldn't

720
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:03.719
<v Speaker 2>be citizens because they too weren't American enough and didn't

721
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:06.079
<v Speaker 2>have allegiance to the United States, et cetera, et cetera.

722
00:39:06.800 --> 00:39:09.920
<v Speaker 2>But I think that those are two of the theories

723
00:39:10.000 --> 00:39:10.880
<v Speaker 2>that are on hand.

724
00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:13.840
<v Speaker 1>That's very dark and very disturbment. Thank you for visiting

725
00:39:13.840 --> 00:39:16.079
<v Speaker 1>the dark side to share that, share that with us.

726
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 1>I think it's also notable that maybe the decision will

727
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.639
<v Speaker 1>come out right about the time the United States World

728
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Cup team is playing in the knockout round, where the

729
00:39:25.000 --> 00:39:27.280
<v Speaker 1>leading scroller World Cup team is someone who has their

730
00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:32.039
<v Speaker 1>citizenship through birthright citizenship. Just just just a fact for

731
00:39:32.159 --> 00:39:34.039
<v Speaker 1>that now. Obviously, if they were to rule this just

732
00:39:34.079 --> 00:39:36.000
<v Speaker 1>I know, we're in the dark hypothetical place here, it

733
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be they couldn't make would they make it retroactive

734
00:39:39.039 --> 00:39:39.280
<v Speaker 1>or like?

735
00:39:39.880 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 2>So this is part of the uncertainty. You know, the

736
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:47.280
<v Speaker 2>administration developed guidance about how they would implement the birthright Order,

737
00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:51.239
<v Speaker 2>but courts blocked that before the order would take effect.

738
00:39:51.599 --> 00:39:55.679
<v Speaker 2>So we don't know whether the Supreme Court would say

739
00:39:56.639 --> 00:40:00.039
<v Speaker 2>those injunctions vacated individuals who were born in the the

740
00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:04.639
<v Speaker 2>United States after this executive order was promulgated, they are

741
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.280
<v Speaker 2>not citizens. We don't know whether the court would say no,

742
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:09.880
<v Speaker 2>this just applies perspectively. Now that we have said it

743
00:40:09.880 --> 00:40:15.000
<v Speaker 2>can be enforced. It's all TBD. This new lawless, very

744
00:40:15.119 --> 00:40:18.599
<v Speaker 2>uncertain era, it's all for grabs.

745
00:40:24.920 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 4>Pod Save America is brought to you by Simply Safe.

746
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747
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<v Speaker 1>So looking at the other cases that are out there,

805
00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>and they're still some pretty big one. So there is

806
00:42:57.639 --> 00:43:02.320
<v Speaker 1>one involving a ban on trans participation in youth sports.

807
00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:05.400
<v Speaker 1>There is one about whether the president was able to

808
00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:09.880
<v Speaker 1>fire Lisa Cook from the FED Board. And then there

809
00:43:09.880 --> 00:43:12.679
<v Speaker 1>are two election cases. Am I missing any other big

810
00:43:12.719 --> 00:43:13.960
<v Speaker 1>ones out there? Are those the ones?

811
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:16.320
<v Speaker 2>Those are the ones that I would say are the

812
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:19.000
<v Speaker 2>big ones. Well, so when you said Lisa Cook, it's

813
00:43:19.039 --> 00:43:22.559
<v Speaker 2>not just a case about Lisa Cook. There's also a

814
00:43:22.639 --> 00:43:25.719
<v Speaker 2>case about whether Trump can fire the head of the

815
00:43:25.719 --> 00:43:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Federal Trade Commission.

816
00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:32.360
<v Speaker 1>And all other are They're.

817
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Not jointed, They're two separate cases.

818
00:43:32.440 --> 00:43:34.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, he may maybe explain these two cases for us.

819
00:43:34.840 --> 00:43:38.960
<v Speaker 2>Sure. Yeah, So one case involves whether Donald Trump can

820
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:42.440
<v Speaker 2>fire a commissioner of the Federal Trade Commission and all

821
00:43:42.599 --> 00:43:47.639
<v Speaker 2>other independent agencies that are led by these independent multi

822
00:43:47.719 --> 00:43:50.760
<v Speaker 2>member commissions like the Securities in Exchange Commission or the

823
00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Equal Employment Opportunity Commission or you name it, National Labor

824
00:43:55.599 --> 00:43:57.039
<v Speaker 2>Relations Board, et cetera.

825
00:43:57.519 --> 00:43:59.320
<v Speaker 1>The Federal Reserve verse that's separate.

826
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, the Federal Reserve is that separate case, because what

827
00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:06.920
<v Speaker 2>happened is earlier in the Trump administration. Trump fired a

828
00:44:06.960 --> 00:44:10.199
<v Speaker 2>bunch of these heads of multi member commissions, even though

829
00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:12.920
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court has a case that's nearly a centuries

830
00:44:13.480 --> 00:44:17.119
<v Speaker 2>old that says Congress can limit the president's ability to

831
00:44:17.239 --> 00:44:20.039
<v Speaker 2>fire the heads of these multi member commissions, specifically the

832
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Federal Trade Commission. So Donald Trump fired people in violation

833
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:28.239
<v Speaker 2>of these laws, and the Supreme Court said, actually, we'll

834
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:31.159
<v Speaker 2>let him do that while the litigation is ongoing, because

835
00:44:31.159 --> 00:44:34.000
<v Speaker 2>we Supreme Court have decided to adopt this great new rule.

836
00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:37.119
<v Speaker 2>It's called the unitary executive theory, and it means the

837
00:44:37.159 --> 00:44:41.760
<v Speaker 2>president gets to have near plenary power to fire people

838
00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:46.320
<v Speaker 2>who exercise significant executive power. But then they added descendants

839
00:44:46.679 --> 00:44:49.840
<v Speaker 2>except the Federal Reserve Board, because that has a distinct

840
00:44:49.880 --> 00:44:53.000
<v Speaker 2>historical tradition in the tradition of the Bank of the

841
00:44:53.079 --> 00:44:58.159
<v Speaker 2>United States. That bespoke fed exception, of course, illustrated that

842
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:02.480
<v Speaker 2>their new unitary executive rule was catastrophic immediately once it

843
00:45:02.519 --> 00:45:04.960
<v Speaker 2>would be unleashed onto the world, because it would give

844
00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.519
<v Speaker 2>the president the power to effectively blow up the United

845
00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:11.480
<v Speaker 2>States and global economy. But that didn't give them pause. Instead,

846
00:45:11.519 --> 00:45:13.880
<v Speaker 2>they just created that bespoke exception. And so what did

847
00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Donald Trump do? He went ahead and tried to fire

848
00:45:15.920 --> 00:45:17.840
<v Speaker 2>a governor of the Federal Reserve Board. Because you know,

849
00:45:17.880 --> 00:45:20.159
<v Speaker 2>when you give a fascist a cookie, what happens, right,

850
00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:24.000
<v Speaker 2>They try to take another cookie. So then the Supreme

851
00:45:24.000 --> 00:45:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Court ended up with these pair of cases, and one

852
00:45:26.960 --> 00:45:30.880
<v Speaker 2>set of cases asks is it constitutional for Congress to

853
00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:33.880
<v Speaker 2>attempt to limit the president's ability to fire the heads

854
00:45:33.920 --> 00:45:37.000
<v Speaker 2>of these multi member commissions. That's a hugely important case

855
00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:41.559
<v Speaker 2>because if the Court hands the president that power, they

856
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:43.920
<v Speaker 2>will be giving him the power to control these agencies

857
00:45:43.960 --> 00:45:50.760
<v Speaker 2>that exercise such sweeping powers over our lives, over government contracts,

858
00:45:50.880 --> 00:45:53.840
<v Speaker 2>over what the corporations have to comply with the law.

859
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:57.000
<v Speaker 2>You know, Federal Trade Commission for example, they police Amazon,

860
00:45:57.159 --> 00:45:59.559
<v Speaker 2>you know, they police antitrust law. If you tell the

861
00:45:59.599 --> 00:46:02.199
<v Speaker 2>president and you can fire people who don't enforce anti

862
00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:05.239
<v Speaker 2>trust law the way you want them to, that's allowing

863
00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:10.679
<v Speaker 2>him to give murders to his friends and penalize his enemies.

864
00:46:10.800 --> 00:46:14.400
<v Speaker 2>So that case is super consequential. But they also have

865
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:18.159
<v Speaker 2>that case about Lisa Cook, and that case asks, well,

866
00:46:18.440 --> 00:46:21.880
<v Speaker 2>given that this statute does limit the president's ability to

867
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:25.199
<v Speaker 2>fire Lisa Cook? Did the President comply with those limitations?

868
00:46:26.079 --> 00:46:27.880
<v Speaker 2>So I don't want the Cook case to kind of

869
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:32.960
<v Speaker 2>obscure the significance of the other case will, which will

870
00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:34.840
<v Speaker 2>affect every other independent agency.

871
00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:36.679
<v Speaker 1>Let me ask a question on the independent agency case. Now,

872
00:46:36.679 --> 00:46:39.280
<v Speaker 1>the president gets to a point. The heads of all

873
00:46:39.320 --> 00:46:44.440
<v Speaker 1>of these jobs, right, and they are approved by the Senate.

874
00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:49.119
<v Speaker 1>And the reason the President can't just fire them like

875
00:46:49.159 --> 00:46:51.320
<v Speaker 1>he could fire his Department of Home his Secretary of

876
00:46:51.320 --> 00:46:54.239
<v Speaker 1>Homeland Security or whatever else is because the way the

877
00:46:54.280 --> 00:46:56.119
<v Speaker 1>law is written says they can only fire him for

878
00:46:56.239 --> 00:46:57.920
<v Speaker 1>cause exactly what it is, yep.

879
00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:00.719
<v Speaker 2>Because Congress decided these agencies would just run better if

880
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:05.079
<v Speaker 2>they were somewhat insulated from politics and relied more on expertise.

881
00:47:05.519 --> 00:47:07.400
<v Speaker 1>And then the question before the court is whether the

882
00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:12.360
<v Speaker 1>president's inherent executive authority override that, whether the Congress does

883
00:47:12.360 --> 00:47:16.039
<v Speaker 1>not have the constitutional authority to him in that specific

884
00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:17.320
<v Speaker 1>executive authority.

885
00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Right exactly, whether the Constitution entitles the President to say

886
00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:22.679
<v Speaker 2>you're fired no matter what Congress is okay.

887
00:47:22.440 --> 00:47:24.960
<v Speaker 1>With the And then that the possible exception of the

888
00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:26.920
<v Speaker 1>FED because of its unique.

889
00:47:26.559 --> 00:47:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Tradition, because the justices have stock portfolios.

890
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:34.519
<v Speaker 1>Yes, exactly, they're all they're all quite wealthy. And Clarence

891
00:47:34.559 --> 00:47:39.840
<v Speaker 1>Simma says, several very close friends who who need that

892
00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:41.400
<v Speaker 1>money to send him on vacation.

893
00:47:41.199 --> 00:47:44.559
<v Speaker 2>And exactly, private jet fuel don't pay for itself. Down.

894
00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, sor Ry, Let's get to the transports case. This one,

895
00:47:47.840 --> 00:47:50.760
<v Speaker 1>if I remember correctly from the oral arguments earlier this year,

896
00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:54.599
<v Speaker 1>seemed quite dire in what we thought the Court would read.

897
00:47:54.639 --> 00:47:56.599
<v Speaker 1>But maybe talk about that case and if there's any

898
00:47:56.880 --> 00:47:57.760
<v Speaker 1>c any hope here.

899
00:47:58.119 --> 00:48:01.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So this case is about whether state laws that

900
00:48:01.119 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 2>effectively ban transgender athletes from participating in sports violate either

901
00:48:05.960 --> 00:48:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Title nine, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of sex

902
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:17.239
<v Speaker 2>in educational programs or educational institutions, and also whether these

903
00:48:17.239 --> 00:48:20.920
<v Speaker 2>state laws violate the Federal Constitutions guarantee of equal protection.

904
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:26.199
<v Speaker 2>The oral argument in the cases was awful. The lawyer

905
00:48:26.320 --> 00:48:28.840
<v Speaker 2>for the federal government, who of course was arguing in

906
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:32.719
<v Speaker 2>support of these state law bans and against trans athletes,

907
00:48:33.079 --> 00:48:35.480
<v Speaker 2>said one of the more grotesque things I think that

908
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:37.679
<v Speaker 2>has ever been said at the Supreme Court lectern when

909
00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:41.800
<v Speaker 2>he referred to trans athletes as males who take performance

910
00:48:41.960 --> 00:48:47.679
<v Speaker 2>enhancing drugs, and I just don't think there's any question

911
00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:51.199
<v Speaker 2>that the six Republican appointees are going to say these

912
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:56.599
<v Speaker 2>state laws are consistent with Title nine. The only lingering

913
00:48:56.679 --> 00:48:59.119
<v Speaker 2>question is whether they're also going to say these state

914
00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:03.119
<v Speaker 2>laws are constitutional, or whether they will instead send the

915
00:49:03.159 --> 00:49:07.039
<v Speaker 2>case back to the lower court to decide that constitutional question,

916
00:49:07.239 --> 00:49:10.039
<v Speaker 2>perhaps with some additional fact finding. I honestly think that

917
00:49:10.159 --> 00:49:13.079
<v Speaker 2>is the best we can hope for at this point.

918
00:49:14.440 --> 00:49:17.320
<v Speaker 2>And the other thing to watch for is whether you

919
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:20.360
<v Speaker 2>get separate writings that say, not only does Title nine

920
00:49:20.559 --> 00:49:25.559
<v Speaker 2>permit states to ban trans athletes from participating at sports,

921
00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:30.880
<v Speaker 2>potentially it requires states and schools to ban trans athletes

922
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.360
<v Speaker 2>from participating in sports. So that's kind of the spectrum

923
00:49:34.360 --> 00:49:36.519
<v Speaker 2>of possibilities. It's very bleak.

924
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So we have two sort of major things that

925
00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:45.440
<v Speaker 1>I guess go beyond sports participation. Right. One is suggesting

926
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:49.239
<v Speaker 1>that Title nine would require some measure of discrimination against

927
00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:53.599
<v Speaker 1>trans people, whether that could be in anything involving education, right,

928
00:49:54.599 --> 00:49:59.440
<v Speaker 1>funding scholarships across the board. Right. So that's one that

929
00:49:59.480 --> 00:50:03.199
<v Speaker 1>seems quite bad. And then even worse, I would imagine,

930
00:50:03.400 --> 00:50:07.360
<v Speaker 1>is making some case that I mean, am I overreading

931
00:50:07.360 --> 00:50:10.440
<v Speaker 1>this that the net result of inequal protection finding here

932
00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:14.840
<v Speaker 1>would be that trans people have no equal protection rights.

933
00:50:16.639 --> 00:50:19.199
<v Speaker 1>Being trans would not guarantee equal protection rights in the

934
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:22.039
<v Speaker 1>way that being black, or a woman or of a

935
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:22.960
<v Speaker 1>certain religious group.

936
00:50:23.480 --> 00:50:26.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the danger is the Supreme Court says laws that

937
00:50:26.079 --> 00:50:30.360
<v Speaker 2>discriminate against trans people do not trigger any kind of

938
00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.400
<v Speaker 2>meaningful judicial scrutiny. So courts should just defer to governments

939
00:50:34.400 --> 00:50:37.559
<v Speaker 2>that discriminate on the basis of gender identity and give

940
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:41.039
<v Speaker 2>those laws a pass. Given the extent to which states

941
00:50:41.119 --> 00:50:44.239
<v Speaker 2>and the federal government have been trying to erase trans

942
00:50:44.280 --> 00:50:48.320
<v Speaker 2>people and strip trans people of their rights, that would

943
00:50:48.400 --> 00:50:54.320
<v Speaker 2>be a really concerning development because it would make challenging

944
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:58.719
<v Speaker 2>all of those laws or policies that are anti trans

945
00:50:58.960 --> 00:50:59.400
<v Speaker 2>in court.

946
00:51:00.119 --> 00:51:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Could Congress, then, in a different world, with a different

947
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Congress and a different president, do something to address that

948
00:51:07.199 --> 00:51:10.639
<v Speaker 1>by passing laws that would guarantee like either amending Title

949
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:13.280
<v Speaker 1>nine or like what would a Congress do that would

950
00:51:13.679 --> 00:51:14.880
<v Speaker 1>solve that problem?

951
00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:20.239
<v Speaker 2>Potentially, Yes, so Congress could enact a statute. Maybe the

952
00:51:20.239 --> 00:51:23.880
<v Speaker 2>statute itself just prohibited discrimination on the basis of gender identity,

953
00:51:24.239 --> 00:51:28.639
<v Speaker 2>no matter the context in school and elsewhere. Maybe Congress

954
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:31.760
<v Speaker 2>creates a spending program that says, look, if you receive

955
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:34.800
<v Speaker 2>any federal funds, you have to promise not to discriminate

956
00:51:34.840 --> 00:51:37.760
<v Speaker 2>on the basis of gender identity. Those are two possibilities,

957
00:51:38.840 --> 00:51:41.039
<v Speaker 2>and yet I am left with but the Supreme Court,

958
00:51:41.159 --> 00:51:43.880
<v Speaker 2>I cannot rule out the possibility that this Court would

959
00:51:43.960 --> 00:51:49.199
<v Speaker 2>invalidate those laws, maybe saying well, they exceed Congress's powers.

960
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Maybe the Court would say, well, those laws actually discriminate

961
00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:55.559
<v Speaker 2>on the basis of sex in violation of the Federal Constitution.

962
00:51:56.760 --> 00:51:59.039
<v Speaker 2>You know, maybe the Court would say they had another

963
00:51:59.119 --> 00:52:01.320
<v Speaker 2>spending clause decision, and this is one of the other

964
00:52:01.360 --> 00:52:03.960
<v Speaker 2>awful decisions from this week, where they basically said spending

965
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.480
<v Speaker 2>programs can't be enforced against the state officials who are

966
00:52:07.519 --> 00:52:10.400
<v Speaker 2>carrying them out. So maybe they would make those spending

967
00:52:10.440 --> 00:52:14.760
<v Speaker 2>conditions effectively toothless. But there are things Congress could do.

968
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:20.880
<v Speaker 2>But basically anything Congress could do that is good requires

969
00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:21.920
<v Speaker 2>a different Supreme Court.

970
00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:24.679
<v Speaker 1>Which is that's true of all that is true of

971
00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:28.719
<v Speaker 1>all things, all things, Yes, so stipulated agreed to. We

972
00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:31.039
<v Speaker 1>have to deal with that. The Supreme Court is also

973
00:52:31.079 --> 00:52:34.119
<v Speaker 1>considering a Mississippi law that allows the five day grace

974
00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:36.119
<v Speaker 1>period for mail in ballots rechieved after election day to

975
00:52:36.159 --> 00:52:38.400
<v Speaker 1>be counted. This laws, of course being challenged by the RNC,

976
00:52:38.760 --> 00:52:42.639
<v Speaker 1>and this has implications both for Mississippi and perhaps more

977
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:47.079
<v Speaker 1>broadly like in California now where Spencer Pratt, who is

978
00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:51.239
<v Speaker 1>a MAGA favorite, his chance spot in the runoff went

979
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.960
<v Speaker 1>away as more votes came in. And so talk a

980
00:52:53.960 --> 00:52:55.480
<v Speaker 1>little bit about this case and if it has broader

981
00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:58.599
<v Speaker 1>implications for this grace period for mail in balloting, which

982
00:52:58.639 --> 00:53:02.079
<v Speaker 1>is Trump is to try to write the executive order

983
00:53:02.119 --> 00:53:04.880
<v Speaker 1>to try to stop the Post service and delivery mail

984
00:53:04.880 --> 00:53:07.960
<v Speaker 1>in ballots, although that was stopped by federal court. Just

985
00:53:08.000 --> 00:53:09.159
<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit what's going on there.

986
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So the challenge here, the Republican National Committee says

987
00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:17.840
<v Speaker 2>this federal law that creates election day as this first

988
00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:20.760
<v Speaker 2>Tuesday in November, that prohibits states from counting ballots that

989
00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:23.960
<v Speaker 2>are received after election day, even if they were postmarked

990
00:53:24.000 --> 00:53:26.840
<v Speaker 2>on or by election day. If the Supreme Court adopts

991
00:53:26.840 --> 00:53:30.519
<v Speaker 2>that theory, that would nullify or change how votes are

992
00:53:30.559 --> 00:53:34.400
<v Speaker 2>counted in twenty nine some states. And of course we

993
00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:36.639
<v Speaker 2>are a few months away from the mid terms. I

994
00:53:36.639 --> 00:53:40.159
<v Speaker 2>think there's a real concern that changing the rules of

995
00:53:40.159 --> 00:53:42.599
<v Speaker 2>the election at this point would put state and local

996
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:46.079
<v Speaker 2>election officials in a really tough spot because they have

997
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:50.000
<v Speaker 2>already begun to prepare to administer the election in accordance

998
00:53:50.039 --> 00:53:53.039
<v Speaker 2>with what their state rules are now, and requiring them

999
00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:55.000
<v Speaker 2>to all of a sudden change on a dime because

1000
00:53:55.039 --> 00:53:59.840
<v Speaker 2>the Supreme Court read election day to be this magical

1001
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:04.159
<v Speaker 2>unicorn of a date on which everything but only some

1002
00:54:04.239 --> 00:54:07.840
<v Speaker 2>things have to be completed by, would be hugely destabilizing.

1003
00:54:07.920 --> 00:54:09.559
<v Speaker 2>I also think it would create a lot of voter

1004
00:54:09.719 --> 00:54:13.119
<v Speaker 2>confusion and chaos that could potentially lead to voter suppression

1005
00:54:13.800 --> 00:54:18.079
<v Speaker 2>and people, you know, not actually returning their ballots and whatnot.

1006
00:54:18.440 --> 00:54:24.360
<v Speaker 2>So I am very concerned about that case just because

1007
00:54:24.519 --> 00:54:29.440
<v Speaker 2>of its potential destabilizing and sweeping implications, and also because

1008
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:32.159
<v Speaker 2>of what it might invite next. If the Supreme Court

1009
00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:36.239
<v Speaker 2>says states can't count ballots that are received after election day,

1010
00:54:36.559 --> 00:54:39.800
<v Speaker 2>why can states count ballots that are received before election day?

1011
00:54:40.000 --> 00:54:42.719
<v Speaker 2>If election day is this magical day that everything is

1012
00:54:42.760 --> 00:54:45.159
<v Speaker 2>supposed to happen by, why can they count ballots after

1013
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:48.480
<v Speaker 2>election day even if the ballots were received before election day.

1014
00:54:48.840 --> 00:54:51.360
<v Speaker 2>So part of what is so concerning about this case

1015
00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:54.880
<v Speaker 2>is it could call into question so many established voting

1016
00:54:54.920 --> 00:54:57.639
<v Speaker 2>practices that we have just taken for granted, in addition

1017
00:54:57.719 --> 00:54:58.840
<v Speaker 2>to fucking with him at terms.

1018
00:54:59.159 --> 00:55:04.519
<v Speaker 1>And the change here, potentially is that the courts to

1019
00:55:04.760 --> 00:55:09.000
<v Speaker 1>date have given states, because of the Constitution why latitude

1020
00:55:09.079 --> 00:55:12.920
<v Speaker 1>in how they conduct their elections. And many of the

1021
00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:16.400
<v Speaker 1>cases that have been thrown out, even some Trump cases

1022
00:55:16.440 --> 00:55:19.239
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty, are based on that principle that the

1023
00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:21.039
<v Speaker 1>Constitution grants the states to do it, they have to

1024
00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:23.400
<v Speaker 1>do it in accordinance with the Constitution. But beyond that,

1025
00:55:23.800 --> 00:55:26.119
<v Speaker 1>you want to do your election all by mail, you

1026
00:55:26.159 --> 00:55:28.320
<v Speaker 1>can do that. You want to count them, you want

1027
00:55:28.320 --> 00:55:31.039
<v Speaker 1>to count ones that arrive after election day, but a

1028
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:35.159
<v Speaker 1>postmarket four you can do that. But that it could

1029
00:55:35.159 --> 00:55:36.760
<v Speaker 1>open the door to other things going.

1030
00:55:36.519 --> 00:55:40.280
<v Speaker 2>Forward here potentially, So even those states, of course have

1031
00:55:40.480 --> 00:55:45.159
<v Speaker 2>the general authority to run elections, Congress can establish rules

1032
00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:48.360
<v Speaker 2>regarding federal elections. Now the president can't. So all of

1033
00:55:48.400 --> 00:55:52.239
<v Speaker 2>his unhinged theories about what he can then can't do,

1034
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:54.480
<v Speaker 2>and what he does and doesn't want, right, I think,

1035
00:55:54.519 --> 00:55:57.039
<v Speaker 2>are still wildly illegal no matter what the Supreme Court

1036
00:55:57.079 --> 00:56:02.480
<v Speaker 2>says in this absentee ballot case. But this federal law

1037
00:56:02.559 --> 00:56:05.199
<v Speaker 2>that just again creates an election day in no way

1038
00:56:05.320 --> 00:56:11.760
<v Speaker 2>displaces how states have conducted elections for years, and so

1039
00:56:12.679 --> 00:56:16.679
<v Speaker 2>I think the challenge is what other challenges to other

1040
00:56:16.719 --> 00:56:19.079
<v Speaker 2>state laws. You know, this theory would invite in addition

1041
00:56:19.119 --> 00:56:21.599
<v Speaker 2>to the position that would put state and local election

1042
00:56:21.679 --> 00:56:23.880
<v Speaker 2>officials in the lead up to the midterm elections.

1043
00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:26.360
<v Speaker 1>And it probably is worth noting that the people who

1044
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:29.760
<v Speaker 1>are probably most disinfranchised with this are military members serving overseas,

1045
00:56:30.400 --> 00:56:32.199
<v Speaker 1>which are where a lot of the ballots come from.

1046
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:33.679
<v Speaker 1>They show up after election.

1047
00:56:33.440 --> 00:56:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Day, that is indeed true. Indeed, the practice of you know,

1048
00:56:38.000 --> 00:56:40.960
<v Speaker 2>voting outside of election day partially originated during the Civil

1049
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:44.440
<v Speaker 2>War to ensure that Union soldiers would not be disenfranchised.

1050
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:49.199
<v Speaker 2>There is always a possibility that the Republican appointees announced

1051
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.000
<v Speaker 2>no ballots can be counted after election day if they're

1052
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.360
<v Speaker 2>received after election day, except for overseas uniformed officers. Now,

1053
00:56:57.440 --> 00:57:00.000
<v Speaker 2>that might not protect the families of people who are

1054
00:57:00.079 --> 00:57:03.119
<v Speaker 2>stationed overseas and whatnot, and that would also create its

1055
00:57:03.119 --> 00:57:10.440
<v Speaker 2>own form of chaos. But who knows.

1056
00:57:13.719 --> 00:57:16.000
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<v Speaker 1>The other case is actually one that has gotten very

1079
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:27.119
<v Speaker 1>little attention, but this actually has potentially dramatic impacts. In fact,

1080
00:58:27.119 --> 00:58:31.639
<v Speaker 1>some have said that this case, which involves how whether

1081
00:58:32.079 --> 00:58:35.719
<v Speaker 1>party party committee parties can coordinate with candidates, would be

1082
00:58:35.719 --> 00:58:38.719
<v Speaker 1>the biggest campaign financision since Citizens United, which is saying

1083
00:58:38.719 --> 00:58:40.639
<v Speaker 1>a lot because we've had cases like McCutcheon and others

1084
00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:45.000
<v Speaker 1>in the middle here also in the oral arguments here

1085
00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.639
<v Speaker 1>did not seem particularly encouraging. So maybe try to explain

1086
00:58:49.719 --> 00:58:51.559
<v Speaker 1>this case to people, why, why, why they should care

1087
00:58:51.599 --> 00:58:51.960
<v Speaker 1>about it.

1088
00:58:52.280 --> 00:58:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it sounds technical because it's a challenge to

1089
00:58:55.920 --> 00:58:59.480
<v Speaker 2>what's called a coordination limit, as you were saying, which

1090
00:58:59.519 --> 00:59:03.719
<v Speaker 2>is a political parties ability to coordinate how they spend

1091
00:59:03.800 --> 00:59:08.719
<v Speaker 2>their money with a candidate. It effectively amounts to a

1092
00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:13.800
<v Speaker 2>ban on political parties donating money to a candidate, because

1093
00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:17.679
<v Speaker 2>if they coordinate, they're effectively giving them money to the

1094
00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:23.400
<v Speaker 2>candidate to decide how it could be spent. And there

1095
00:59:23.440 --> 00:59:27.840
<v Speaker 2>is a concern that if you say, while contribution limits,

1096
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:32.039
<v Speaker 2>actually those might be unconstitutional, that is like the last

1097
00:59:32.079 --> 00:59:36.840
<v Speaker 2>remaining vestige of campaign finance law, because even as the

1098
00:59:36.880 --> 00:59:42.360
<v Speaker 2>Supreme Court has opened up these pathways for corporations super

1099
00:59:42.400 --> 00:59:45.880
<v Speaker 2>packs to spend an unlimited amount of their own money

1100
00:59:46.400 --> 00:59:51.159
<v Speaker 2>doing their own advertising, they have not yet struck down

1101
00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:56.320
<v Speaker 2>limitations on billionaires and corporation's ability to give money directly

1102
00:59:56.880 --> 01:00:01.320
<v Speaker 2>to candidates. And once you start saying, actually, contribution limits,

1103
01:00:02.440 --> 01:00:06.719
<v Speaker 2>those are no good either, then that invites individuals giving

1104
01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:10.679
<v Speaker 2>directly money to candidates. And I think that's one of

1105
01:00:10.679 --> 01:00:12.159
<v Speaker 2>the big concerns about this case.

1106
01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, like in practical consideration, right just so, there's two things.

1107
01:00:15.239 --> 01:00:17.800
<v Speaker 1>There's there's what this case would mean right now and

1108
01:00:17.840 --> 01:00:19.519
<v Speaker 1>how elections are conducted today, and then there is the

1109
01:00:19.599 --> 01:00:23.760
<v Speaker 1>larger question about whether contribution limits at all are now

1110
01:00:23.800 --> 01:00:26.960
<v Speaker 1>a violation of free speech, which leads to instead of

1111
01:00:26.960 --> 01:00:29.000
<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk writing one hundred and spend one hundred and

1112
01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>thirty two million dollars or whatever it was too in

1113
01:00:31.760 --> 01:00:33.760
<v Speaker 1>a series of outside groups to like Donald Trump, he

1114
01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:35.639
<v Speaker 1>just gives Donald Trump one hundred three two million dollars.

1115
01:00:35.639 --> 01:00:36.599
<v Speaker 2>Cut out the middlemen.

1116
01:00:36.920 --> 01:00:39.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that's that seems bad, But just like as you

1117
01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:43.960
<v Speaker 1>think about it, now, you can give about seven thousand

1118
01:00:44.000 --> 01:00:46.920
<v Speaker 1>dollars to a candidate, ye person, you know, half in

1119
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:48.679
<v Speaker 1>the primary, half in the general as an indisgdient whether

1120
01:00:48.719 --> 01:00:51.440
<v Speaker 1>you are you or me or Elon Musk. That's the

1121
01:00:51.480 --> 01:00:57.239
<v Speaker 1>most we can give directly to Grand Platner, John asof Recooper,

1122
01:00:57.239 --> 01:01:01.840
<v Speaker 1>whoever else you can give. Ji Visual can give one

1123
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:04.639
<v Speaker 1>hundred and thirty two thousand dollars under thirty thousand, nine

1124
01:01:04.679 --> 01:01:07.639
<v Speaker 1>ndred dollars to the DNC or the RNC. And so

1125
01:01:07.800 --> 01:01:11.400
<v Speaker 1>now instead of giving my seven thousand dollars, my low

1126
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:14.320
<v Speaker 1>over seven thousand dollars to Grand Planner, I just give

1127
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:17.079
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and thirty two thus to the DNC and

1128
01:01:17.119 --> 01:01:19.000
<v Speaker 1>then they spend that on behalf of this matters more

1129
01:01:19.000 --> 01:01:22.000
<v Speaker 1>in presidential campaigns than it does anything else because that's

1130
01:01:22.000 --> 01:01:24.800
<v Speaker 1>where we spent directly. But it does have big implications

1131
01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:27.760
<v Speaker 1>and just once again gives more power to rich people.

1132
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:31.400
<v Speaker 1>This is almost certainly going to the court will proof this.

1133
01:01:31.400 --> 01:01:33.599
<v Speaker 1>This is in line with every other decision they've made

1134
01:01:33.639 --> 01:01:38.559
<v Speaker 1>since John Roberts became the Chief Justice, and the Trump

1135
01:01:38.559 --> 01:01:41.360
<v Speaker 1>administration isn't even defending the law here they are. They

1136
01:01:41.400 --> 01:01:44.320
<v Speaker 1>are on the other side of it because it's the NRSC,

1137
01:01:44.599 --> 01:01:47.320
<v Speaker 1>the National Concentatorial Committee, is the plaintiff in the case.

1138
01:01:47.519 --> 01:01:51.280
<v Speaker 1>So this one is this is a big mass. This

1139
01:01:51.320 --> 01:01:53.440
<v Speaker 1>is one for election. Nerds are paying a lot of

1140
01:01:53.440 --> 01:01:55.880
<v Speaker 1>attention to him, people who work on elections. But they

1141
01:01:55.960 --> 01:01:58.079
<v Speaker 1>got some pretty big implications for what else, what else

1142
01:01:58.119 --> 01:01:59.159
<v Speaker 1>is to come in our politics?

1143
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, completely, because in the short term it would just

1144
01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:04.960
<v Speaker 2>rapidly increase the amount of money that rich individuals can

1145
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:07.280
<v Speaker 2>give directly to candidates. But then in the longer term

1146
01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:11.159
<v Speaker 2>it potentially opens up a pathway for no limits at all.

1147
01:02:11.719 --> 01:02:14.079
<v Speaker 2>There is a small outside chance that the court says

1148
01:02:14.400 --> 01:02:16.440
<v Speaker 2>there's no actual controversy here in the case is moot

1149
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:19.280
<v Speaker 2>and they don't decide it. But that is the best scenario.

1150
01:02:20.159 --> 01:02:22.880
<v Speaker 1>I mean, look, I mean this course, Supreme Court, there's

1151
01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:25.800
<v Speaker 1>always hope, right like, yeah, give them that they have

1152
01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:29.400
<v Speaker 1>one thing. They've earned the benefit all right. Before we go,

1153
01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:31.519
<v Speaker 1>I want to hit on Rovy Wade. This past week

1154
01:02:31.800 --> 01:02:35.559
<v Speaker 1>was the four year anniversary of the Dobbs decision, which

1155
01:02:35.639 --> 01:02:40.480
<v Speaker 1>overturned the Rovy Wade decision. The legacy of that decision

1156
01:02:40.519 --> 01:02:44.559
<v Speaker 1>continues to live in our lives, in our politics everywhere.

1157
01:02:44.679 --> 01:02:48.880
<v Speaker 1>It is coming up in this main Senate race where

1158
01:02:48.920 --> 01:02:51.719
<v Speaker 1>Susan Collins is running against Granmp plant there and she

1159
01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.320
<v Speaker 1>got asked about it on Fox News. I wanted to

1160
01:02:53.320 --> 01:02:55.239
<v Speaker 1>play the clip and get your reaction to it.

1161
01:02:55.320 --> 01:02:57.440
<v Speaker 6>You held out for quite some time on your vote

1162
01:02:57.440 --> 01:03:00.880
<v Speaker 6>of support for just now Justice Kavanaugh. Is this an

1163
01:03:01.000 --> 01:03:03.960
<v Speaker 6>issue that you think is troublesome for you in this

1164
01:03:04.119 --> 01:03:07.360
<v Speaker 6>race now that Roe v. Wade was overturned in Maine

1165
01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:08.519
<v Speaker 6>across the country.

1166
01:03:09.800 --> 01:03:12.480
<v Speaker 5>Well, first of all, let me make clear that I

1167
01:03:12.679 --> 01:03:17.920
<v Speaker 5>disagreed with the Supremes of Courts six to three decision

1168
01:03:18.679 --> 01:03:19.760
<v Speaker 5>overturning Roe v.

1169
01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Wade.

1170
01:03:21.119 --> 01:03:27.400
<v Speaker 5>But the fact is that whether Justice Kevanaugh were confirmed

1171
01:03:27.719 --> 01:03:32.480
<v Speaker 5>or not, Roe v. Wade would have been overturned given

1172
01:03:32.599 --> 01:03:34.239
<v Speaker 5>the six to three votes.

1173
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Not true, Sammlido says.

1174
01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:41.400
<v Speaker 1>Could you maybe explain where Susan Collins has her facts

1175
01:03:41.440 --> 01:03:42.239
<v Speaker 1>wrong on this one?

1176
01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Where to start?

1177
01:03:43.920 --> 01:03:48.920
<v Speaker 1>There's so much about it, you go, okay.

1178
01:03:48.679 --> 01:03:52.519
<v Speaker 2>We'll start with the factual inaccuracies. Had Justice Kavanaugh not

1179
01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.440
<v Speaker 2>been confirmed, there were not five votes to overrule ro

1180
01:03:55.559 --> 01:03:59.559
<v Speaker 2>versus Wade. Chief Justice Roberts did not vote to overrule

1181
01:03:59.639 --> 01:04:04.440
<v Speaker 2>roversas he instead voted to change the legal test in

1182
01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:07.880
<v Speaker 2>a way that would have expanded state's ability to restrict

1183
01:04:07.880 --> 01:04:10.840
<v Speaker 2>abortion more so than they could have done before the decision,

1184
01:04:11.159 --> 01:04:14.000
<v Speaker 2>but not to the point of overruling Roversus Wade. So

1185
01:04:14.000 --> 01:04:16.760
<v Speaker 2>that's just factually inaccurate. There were just five justices who

1186
01:04:16.840 --> 01:04:18.559
<v Speaker 2>voted to overall Row, and to.

1187
01:04:18.400 --> 01:04:21.519
<v Speaker 1>Be clear, she confirmed the fifth justice.

1188
01:04:21.199 --> 01:04:24.000
<v Speaker 2>And she confirmed Brett Kavanaugh exactly who was one of

1189
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:30.159
<v Speaker 2>those five. So facts not so great. Second, I absolutely

1190
01:04:30.400 --> 01:04:34.280
<v Speaker 2>just despise this framing of I disagree with the Court's decision.

1191
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't regret my vote because it just makes me

1192
01:04:36.920 --> 01:04:40.719
<v Speaker 2>wonder what great things has Brett Kavanaugh done that make

1193
01:04:41.840 --> 01:04:46.280
<v Speaker 2>the loss of women's lives, their fertility, their health worth it,

1194
01:04:47.159 --> 01:04:50.079
<v Speaker 2>Like how many women have to lose their lives for

1195
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:55.639
<v Speaker 2>you to conclude that, actually, maybe you do regret your vote.

1196
01:04:56.119 --> 01:05:00.280
<v Speaker 2>So that is just horrifying. And then there there's this

1197
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:06.239
<v Speaker 2>sense that maybe she, you know, made this decision, but

1198
01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:10.119
<v Speaker 2>it didn't really affect manors, which is also wrong because

1199
01:05:10.480 --> 01:05:13.079
<v Speaker 2>you know, people who live in Maine, which still has

1200
01:05:13.119 --> 01:05:17.159
<v Speaker 2>abortion access, might travel and sometimes people experience medical emergencies

1201
01:05:17.239 --> 01:05:19.960
<v Speaker 2>that might require medical care, including abortion care. And if

1202
01:05:20.000 --> 01:05:23.119
<v Speaker 2>you're traveling in a state where after Row abortion is banned,

1203
01:05:23.199 --> 01:05:25.639
<v Speaker 2>you are potentially in a circumstance where you could not

1204
01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:27.920
<v Speaker 2>receive medical care. Add to that the fact that the

1205
01:05:27.920 --> 01:05:32.400
<v Speaker 2>medication abortion rulings potentially jeopardize access to medication abortion even

1206
01:05:32.400 --> 01:05:34.920
<v Speaker 2>in states like Maine that want to protect abortion, and

1207
01:05:35.000 --> 01:05:40.039
<v Speaker 2>I just think she is really papering over so many

1208
01:05:40.119 --> 01:05:43.960
<v Speaker 2>of the horrific consequences that her vote to confirm the

1209
01:05:44.039 --> 01:05:48.119
<v Speaker 2>fifth vote to overrule ROW have had. And it just

1210
01:05:48.920 --> 01:05:51.480
<v Speaker 2>one of the more tragic things about the twenty twenty

1211
01:05:51.519 --> 01:05:54.960
<v Speaker 2>four presidential election is I think people came away from

1212
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.840
<v Speaker 2>it thinking, well, actually, the Republican Party isn't going to

1213
01:05:57.840 --> 01:06:01.400
<v Speaker 2>bear any consequences for overall ROW, and the public has

1214
01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:04.199
<v Speaker 2>just decided not to force them to pay a price

1215
01:06:04.519 --> 01:06:08.760
<v Speaker 2>for again the loss of lives, health, fertility, more that

1216
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:13.199
<v Speaker 2>we have seen in the wake of ROW being overruled.

1217
01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:17.199
<v Speaker 2>And I hope that is not the case. I hope

1218
01:06:17.199 --> 01:06:19.639
<v Speaker 2>that in twenty twenty six, you know, people who enable

1219
01:06:19.800 --> 01:06:25.400
<v Speaker 2>this post Row landscape are held accountable. But it is

1220
01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:31.400
<v Speaker 2>just very depressing I think anytime I think about the

1221
01:06:31.400 --> 01:06:36.039
<v Speaker 2>fact that people just decided to give a bunch of

1222
01:06:36.199 --> 01:06:40.119
<v Speaker 2>politicians a pass for what they have unleashed on people

1223
01:06:40.159 --> 01:06:40.800
<v Speaker 2>in this country.

1224
01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:44.360
<v Speaker 1>So let me can I give the counterpoints of that,

1225
01:06:44.800 --> 01:06:47.800
<v Speaker 1>because let's do it, because I talked this on Polar

1226
01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Coaster this past week because of the anniversary of Dobbs.

1227
01:06:52.039 --> 01:06:54.079
<v Speaker 1>And what is really interesting about the polling on this

1228
01:06:54.440 --> 01:06:57.039
<v Speaker 1>is abortion was a very divisive issue in this country

1229
01:06:57.119 --> 01:07:00.119
<v Speaker 1>up until the moment of Dobbs and the number of

1230
01:07:00.119 --> 01:07:03.000
<v Speaker 1>Americans who consider themselves pro choice. It reached an all

1231
01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:05.639
<v Speaker 1>time high right after Dobbs and four years later has

1232
01:07:05.639 --> 01:07:08.400
<v Speaker 1>stayed the same. It has not gone down as obviously

1233
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:10.840
<v Speaker 1>in that immediate aftermath and in that election in twenty

1234
01:07:10.840 --> 01:07:13.239
<v Speaker 1>twenty two, as these republic states are rushing to pass

1235
01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:17.039
<v Speaker 1>their bills, abortion was the number one issue in politics,

1236
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:19.400
<v Speaker 1>was discussed everywhere. People were dealing with It was just

1237
01:07:19.440 --> 01:07:23.119
<v Speaker 1>a topic of conversation. As it's dropped in salience, it

1238
01:07:23.159 --> 01:07:25.280
<v Speaker 1>has not changed the politics of which I think is very,

1239
01:07:25.480 --> 01:07:30.199
<v Speaker 1>very positive and creates the path for accountability for these people.

1240
01:07:30.239 --> 01:07:33.039
<v Speaker 1>And there are opportunities in twenty twenty six to hold

1241
01:07:33.039 --> 01:07:36.840
<v Speaker 1>these people accountable. You have Susan Collins, you have Ken Paxton,

1242
01:07:37.440 --> 01:07:42.800
<v Speaker 1>you have an array of officials in Ohio right in

1243
01:07:42.840 --> 01:07:45.159
<v Speaker 1>a whole bunch of other states that passed some of

1244
01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:50.519
<v Speaker 1>the most the cruelest and most retrograde reproductive rights laws

1245
01:07:50.519 --> 01:07:52.159
<v Speaker 1>in this country can all pay the price. Everyone should

1246
01:07:52.159 --> 01:07:54.480
<v Speaker 1>go to vote saf America dot com to figure out

1247
01:07:54.519 --> 01:07:56.800
<v Speaker 1>how to do that. But I really do believe Donald

1248
01:07:56.840 --> 01:07:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Trump was this unicorn figure because even though he is

1249
01:07:59.880 --> 01:08:03.880
<v Speaker 1>the person other in Susan Collins, most responsible for Row

1250
01:08:03.920 --> 01:08:07.559
<v Speaker 1>being overturned, no one actually believed that he truly was

1251
01:08:08.159 --> 01:08:11.760
<v Speaker 1>anti choice. Like I remember in focused scripts people would say, people,

1252
01:08:11.840 --> 01:08:14.079
<v Speaker 1>if you asked in a focus group with Donald Trump

1253
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:18.560
<v Speaker 1>was anti abortion or anti choice, they would laugh and

1254
01:08:18.640 --> 01:08:23.560
<v Speaker 1>would say he un yeah, and he probably like, I mean,

1255
01:08:23.560 --> 01:08:26.600
<v Speaker 1>here's a guy who cheated on all his wife, sleeps

1256
01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:30.079
<v Speaker 1>around like this discuss he's a disgusting cad. He's from Manhattan.

1257
01:08:30.119 --> 01:08:32.520
<v Speaker 1>He probably like, obviously he doesn't care about abortion. That

1258
01:08:32.560 --> 01:08:34.000
<v Speaker 1>is not true of the rest of the republic'sertainly not

1259
01:08:34.039 --> 01:08:37.600
<v Speaker 1>sure of Ken Paxton, who is a principal architect of

1260
01:08:37.600 --> 01:08:39.960
<v Speaker 1>that law and the enforcement of that law. And so

1261
01:08:40.000 --> 01:08:43.520
<v Speaker 1>there are opportunities to hold people accountable here and like

1262
01:08:43.560 --> 01:08:45.920
<v Speaker 1>this is I do believe that Dobbs was a it

1263
01:08:46.000 --> 01:08:48.960
<v Speaker 1>did not bear It did not bear fruit in twenty

1264
01:08:49.000 --> 01:08:52.399
<v Speaker 1>twenty four because of a long list of unique circumstances

1265
01:08:52.399 --> 01:08:53.760
<v Speaker 1>that be deviled that election that we don't have to

1266
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:58.159
<v Speaker 1>get into, but was a fundamental signature moment that changed

1267
01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:00.399
<v Speaker 1>politics in this country in ways that will sure those

1268
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:04.399
<v Speaker 1>people are held accountable, and more and more states will

1269
01:09:04.439 --> 01:09:06.960
<v Speaker 1>elect the right people to put in place laws and

1270
01:09:06.960 --> 01:09:08.439
<v Speaker 1>maybe one day we'll have a Supreme Court that can

1271
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:09.840
<v Speaker 1>undo the damage that was done there.

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01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I very much, I very much hope you are correct,

1273
01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:18.479
<v Speaker 2>and I just worry that I have rarely gone wrong

1274
01:09:19.039 --> 01:09:25.359
<v Speaker 2>in estimating the amount of misogyny that Americans will tolerate

1275
01:09:25.520 --> 01:09:30.000
<v Speaker 2>in their politics. And again, I very much hope you

1276
01:09:30.039 --> 01:09:34.439
<v Speaker 2>are right. May it be the case, and we have that.

1277
01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:37.039
<v Speaker 1>We have the ability to impact that ourselves. Yes, right now,

1278
01:09:37.119 --> 01:09:38.800
<v Speaker 1>everyone exact to impact that.

1279
01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.920
<v Speaker 2>In many different ways, whether that is like calling your

1280
01:09:41.920 --> 01:09:44.840
<v Speaker 2>officials to remind them that actually you do care about

1281
01:09:45.159 --> 01:09:48.640
<v Speaker 2>abortion access and reproductive rights. Are your senators confirming nominees

1282
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:51.439
<v Speaker 2>giving blue slips to nominees right who you don't think

1283
01:09:51.479 --> 01:09:55.159
<v Speaker 2>will protect reproductive freedom in for instance, yes, you know,

1284
01:09:55.439 --> 01:09:56.920
<v Speaker 2>not naming names, but.

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01:09:58.159 --> 01:09:59.960
<v Speaker 1>Someone who is on the ballot in twenty twenty eight,

1286
01:10:00.960 --> 01:10:04.520
<v Speaker 1>chase the primary challenge yes, yes or again?

1287
01:10:04.960 --> 01:10:07.520
<v Speaker 2>Electing officials helping to get out the vote, to help

1288
01:10:07.560 --> 01:10:10.159
<v Speaker 2>elect officials you know who will protect reproductive freedom, you know,

1289
01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:12.560
<v Speaker 2>and to vote against people who didn't. All of those

1290
01:10:12.640 --> 01:10:16.439
<v Speaker 2>are ways to make this happen. And I think we

1291
01:10:16.520 --> 01:10:19.960
<v Speaker 2>kind of need to make reproductive freedom a salient issue.

1292
01:10:20.119 --> 01:10:22.560
<v Speaker 2>I think is part of protecting democracy. Like you can't

1293
01:10:22.600 --> 01:10:23.840
<v Speaker 2>really separate these two things.

1294
01:10:25.079 --> 01:10:28.399
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, fingers see. That seems what was perhaps not

1295
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:31.119
<v Speaker 1>the most optimistic and hopeful pod that we've done in

1296
01:10:31.119 --> 01:10:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Patzave America for the last many years, although quite insightful,

1297
01:10:34.159 --> 01:10:37.239
<v Speaker 1>interesting and entertaining, I would say maybe we can end

1298
01:10:37.279 --> 01:10:41.039
<v Speaker 1>on that positive ish note. Leah Liman, thanks so much

1299
01:10:41.039 --> 01:10:43.960
<v Speaker 1>for joining us and everyone check out Strict Scrutiny. You

1300
01:10:43.960 --> 01:10:46.600
<v Speaker 1>guys have another podcast out this week on Monday. Was

1301
01:10:46.640 --> 01:10:48.880
<v Speaker 1>talking with some decisions and then maybe more depending on

1302
01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:50.039
<v Speaker 1>what we hear from the rest of the court. Is

1303
01:10:50.039 --> 01:10:50.399
<v Speaker 1>that right?

1304
01:10:50.520 --> 01:10:53.319
<v Speaker 2>That is all correct? New episode on Monday, and then

1305
01:10:53.560 --> 01:10:57.119
<v Speaker 2>likely additional episodes whenever the Supreme Court does fuck knows what.

1306
01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:00.640
<v Speaker 1>Leah, Thank you so much. Thanks thanks a Leah for

1307
01:11:00.640 --> 01:11:03.000
<v Speaker 1>stopping by. John, John and Tommy will be backing your

1308
01:11:03.000 --> 01:11:04.560
<v Speaker 1>feed with a new episode on Tuesday.

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<v Speaker 4>By everyone Positive America. Is a Crooked Media production. Our

1310
01:11:07.640 --> 01:11:10.279
<v Speaker 4>show is produced by Austin Fisher, Saul Ruben, McKenna Roberts

1311
01:11:10.319 --> 01:11:13.079
<v Speaker 4>and Ferris Safari, with Ree Cherlin, Elijah Cone and Adrian Hill.

1312
01:11:13.199 --> 01:11:15.640
<v Speaker 4>Our team includes Matt de Groate, Ben Hefcot, Jordan Kanter,

1313
01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:18.399
<v Speaker 4>Charlotte Landis Krol pel Avive, David Toles, Mia Kelman, Ryan

1314
01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:20.880
<v Speaker 4>Young and Naomi Single. Our staff is probably unionized with

1315
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<v Speaker 4>the Writers Guild of America East