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Speaker 1: What is up, Fellasicicos.

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Speaker 2: I am jan Valley coming at you with the one,

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the only, my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes.

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We are gathered here today to do something no other podcast,

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no other.

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Speaker 1: Content creator had done. That's some NBA awards checked in

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check ins.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna do it around the quarter pole. Stuff happens

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we did other episodes, so we're gonna check in slightly

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at We're not at the we're not one third of

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the way through the season yet, Grant, but we're past

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the quarter pole. So these are our quarter check ins.

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These these are our December ahead of trade season NBA

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award check ins. So that's how we're gonna frame it.

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Our biggest question of the episode, though, Grant, how the

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heck are you? Uh?

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Speaker 3: I feel satisfied because we're proving that we don't. You know,

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there's like a rush to be first, right, and that's

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that's poisoned news and sports media, not us.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 3: We're not trying to be first with first quarter awards

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are way past the first quarter, so these will all

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be I don't know, like better right because we've taken

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more time to think about them. It's not because we

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just couldn't find time to get around to them, So

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disabuse yourself of that notion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I hate, I don't hate is a strong word,

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but the discourse around so many of the wards just

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gets out of control sometimes, and so I almost dread

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doing them because I know that we're going to make

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some people super unhappy with it, especially especially when it

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comes to the NBA's MVP race. And have you been

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has your mind been polluted at all by all the

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other takes out there? Did you find yourself swayed one

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way or the other before we really dig in because

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of what's out in the ether at the moment.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's uh, First of all, your contact with the

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ether is far greater than mine, so I'm I'm peripherally

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aware of the MVP discussion, But maybe let's just get

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into it because that's I think that's the most I

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don't feel like anxiety about it or be like, don't

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you think that the MVP discussion at the top, which

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is between Shay gilg Just Alexander and Nicole Jokic is

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exactly the same discussion we had last year, except both

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of them are playing better, So it's just like it's

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the same. It's it's a good point to like, oh

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my god, Yokic is on off and like look at

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the counting stats and it's like, yeah, those are way better.

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So is he the MV Well not necessarily, because Shay

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is averaging thirty two and six and five and is

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making forty five percent of it. It's just like there.

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Speaker 1: Hits pull up threes now in high volume.

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Speaker 3: All of a sudden, all of the same elements are there,

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and we can get into them too as we look

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at the ballot.

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Speaker 2: Right, and so we can get to the ball I

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actually have a more fat like I guess it's related

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to the ballot, but I have a bigger question that

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I just find more instructive than the entire MVP process.

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But let's throw the ballots up there. They are entirely

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the same for us, which is, so do you want.

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Speaker 3: To which is really disappointing in a lot of ways.

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Speaker 1: Right, Uh, do you want to take us through what

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our ballots are?

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Speaker 3: Our joint Yeah, we don't have to say this is

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my ballot, this is our collective ballot. We both have

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Jokic won Shay two. To me, there's a pretty substantial

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drop off after that, like, I don't really care what

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order the rest, you know, the next like three to

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seven players you have are you should have all these

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guys in some order. But Luca third, Kid, Cunningham fourth,

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Jannis fifth. The calf injury is a factor, Like he's

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you know, he's probably all for awards. This is his

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last appearance on the NBA, right right, Sure, But that's

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the other thing. This is the first quarter, so it's

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like he's good because you can't play sixty five games

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in the first quarter.

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Speaker 1: We should have said that at the top.

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Speaker 2: These are who were These are the players we are

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picking based off everything we've seen so far.

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Speaker 1: We're not doing any projecting.

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Speaker 3: Right, not a prediction of who will win the award.

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I mean obviously like this is who it is now,

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so good chance a bigger picture, but yeah, this is

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based on the games that have occurred to this point.

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I wonder if we have well, we probably don't have

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the same kind of like bigger picture question about the MVP,

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So I'll defer to you what what's the sort of

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macro you wanted to talk about.

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Speaker 2: I've seen a lot of people use two differentiations when

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it seems like they're going shay over Jokic, which I

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think at least one of them is legitimate. If you

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want to look at this and say the thunder or

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scoring opponents by nineteen points per one hundred posessions, which

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say on the floor they're probably gonna win more than

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seventy three games. They are a legendary defense of which

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he is an active participant.

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Speaker 1: I would say he's not one of the.

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Speaker 2: Five reasons they're as good as they are defensively, but

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he's an active participant in it.

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Speaker 1: If you want to look at all that, see what

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he's added to his.

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Speaker 2: Game from a three point volume and creation perspective there,

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and then what he doesn't take away from you. If

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you want to say that on defense or the disruption

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he creates there in the role that he's able to hold,

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I think that's fine.

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Speaker 1: This is truly it can be either or for me.

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Speaker 2: But I look at Jokic and this is what a

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lot of people have said as the differentiator.

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Speaker 1: But I should make the case for Jokic. First.

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Speaker 2: The Nuggets are a plus thirteen with him on the court,

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plus five point eight when he's playing without Jamal Murray.

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Their offensive rating is one hundred and thirty when he's

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on the floor, which is just stupid. You get into

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the I've become a big fan of true usage, which

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incorporates traditional usage as well as assists and potential assists.

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He does have a slightly higher true usage than Shay, Gilgers, Alexander,

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But I just look at the burden he shoulders as

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both scorer and playmaker in some as larger and more

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valuable slightly than what Shay is doing. And to date,

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Jokic has generated one than three hundred and seven points

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off his own scoring and from assists. That is forty

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five point four percent grant of Denver's entire scoring. He

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is first in the league in high value assists per

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one hundred possessions. Now, just to compare this to Shay,

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since he's the most direct competition in terms of points

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and points off assists, he's thirty nine point four percent

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of Okase's offense, which is kind of insane of itself

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when you realize how deep that team is. But when

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I look at Jokic through that prism and the decisions

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he makes, which are by and large they can be

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a lot quicker than what Shay is doing on the

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ball because he's reading all these other things that the

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defense is doing and trying to find his teammates, and

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he does so so quickly. You dig into some of

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the shot quality metrics, Jokich's three point shot quality is

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lower than Shay's. They're about comparable when you're looking at

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their shot quality around the rim. These are two megastars

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in ultra difficult roles, and you could pick whoever and

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the other justification for se you want to say j

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dubb has barely played this season, Dude, I agree with you.

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He has the edge in EPM, Jokic has the edge

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in Darko the biggest separation or well, I've just seen

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this come up a few times now, and so I'm

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very curious to get your take what a lot of

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people have done, rather than if they think it's a tie,

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defaulting to well, who's better or the thunder better than

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the Nuggets, I'm gonna pick Shee. I've seen more of

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who is easier to build a title contender around, and

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it's Shay, and so I'm going to gravitate towards Shy. Now,

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I one fundamentally disagree with that premise. I don't know

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what it has to do in terms of being a

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tiebreaker for this discussion, even if you do lean the

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other way.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I guess, like if if you're trying to

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determine value because it is most valuable, I guess like

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you sort the idea of who is easier to build

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a title winner or contender around is like relevant to

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answering or to divining value, I guess in some way,

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But like that actually is. But that's not like I

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don't feel like that's a reasonable basis to to Like,

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that's not the same thing as asking who the MVP is.

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I don't think, do you.

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Speaker 2: I I want it, you should get into your case

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of the MVP. But I actually want to have that

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discussion of is it actually easier to build a great

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team around Shay than it is around Jokic? Or have

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the Thunder just done a better job of building around Shaye?

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, so the fact that they have suggests

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that maybe it is easier, right, Like, So there's so

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many different like kind of tentacles of this conversation. So

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I'm I'm fixated again on how you're defining valuable because

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and again this is to some extent, this is rehashing

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what we've discussed in past MVP discussions and last year

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in particular, you know, take Yo Kitch off, then there's

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another way to to to like try to figure it out.

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Take Yo catch off the Nuggets. They're way worse with

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and they're a bad team full stop. They're not They're

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not a break They're bad. Take Shay off the Thunder.

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They're probably one of the four best teams in the West.

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It's still like, you know it, maybe it's not his fault.

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I'm just saying, like, okay, well, so then if if value,

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if we're talking about value to your team in particular,

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Yokic is more valuable. Now that's true because his supporting

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cast is worse, and what does that shouldn't have anything

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to do with like how objectively good a player.

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Speaker 1: Is, and it doesn't.

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Speaker 3: But we're talking about valuable. So I think a lot

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of people and me to some extent, I just think

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of it in those terms. Again, it's it's just the

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hazy definition of valuable and like what's allowed to be

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considered is part of the reason that this discussion is

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interesting because if if that weren't a factor, we would

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just go by like higher DARKO, higher EPM. What are

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the counting stats like and maybe you talk about strength

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to schedule or something like that to to evaluate these things.

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That the beauty of it is their teams are different

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and so different in so many ways, like historically different

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in the Thunders case, that it's like just difficult. It's

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more difficult to split hairs here. Who is it easier

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to build around? I mean, I think if you took

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there's and here's the best part about this argument, there's

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no way to disprove this because it'll never happen. It's impossible. Well,

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if you took a like definitionally average supporting cast and

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put it around Yokic, I believe that team would be

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better than Shay surrounded by a definitionally average supporting cast.

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And I think that's because I just view the Thunder

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as so dominant in so many ways that Shay is

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set up to succeed in ways that Jokic isn't. And

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that's again, it's like I'm not taking anything away from him.

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It's just if you have perhaps the best defense of

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all time around you, like your lift on that end

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of the floors is not that heavy, and if if

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like you can, your team's gonna score off turnovers all

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the time because your defense is so good, like, you know,

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there's just ways to succeed, Like the Nuggets don't have

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a way to succeed that doesn't involve Jokic like that,

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you know, So I'm more comfortable saying if you put

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just average dudes around both of them, Jokic's team will

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be better, and good luck proving that he sort of can't.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean you could do the flip too, where

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you said take them off their teams and what happens

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if you put Jokic on the Thunder and Shae on

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the Nuggets? Are the Thunder as good as they are

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right now with Jokic instead of Shay? I would say, yes,

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it's not that Yeah, right win the Nuggets? Are they

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as good as they are right now with Jokic? The

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answer to me is probably Shay is great offensively and

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he is going to do more things defensively, but what

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Jokic does And look, there's been a lot of people

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commenting on Yokic's defense this year.

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Speaker 1: I've seen the low lights.

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Speaker 2: There does feel like more moments where he's just getting

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absolutely toasted. The defense of rebounding itself is still gonna

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be valuable because it the way it ends possessions.

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Speaker 1: He does have good hands.

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Speaker 2: When he's super locked in, who becomes the base of

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your defense without like there's just no there's no fallback,

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Like in Denver if you're adding another if you're adding

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Shay to the mix, you're still I think they're still

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a great team. But it's just him and Jamal Murray.

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Like the way that Jokic plays, he is intuitively an

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excellent fit alongside everyone.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if you could say the same.

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This isn't a Shae conversation.

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Speaker 2: It's about literally anyone else in the NBA, maybe with

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the exception of Steph. When you're talking about scalable stardom,

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so the and I I I do ultimately hate having

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the discussion like this because Shay everyone's seen the number's

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lowest turnover eate in history among a thirty point per

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game score. The level like the burden that he shoulders

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on offense for a team that does have Steph, does

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have j Dubb, does have AJ Mitchell, like does have

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all these good players on the team, It's it is

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kind of insane. I guess where I struggle not picking

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Shae over Jokic, but maybe even picking Jokic over Shay

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like we did. Does it get to like, how do

259
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you evow like it's not Shay's fault that he's on

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the thunder and so you are. We just like we're

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getting into things that cannot be disproven, as you said

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to where it's well, I dm Jokic more valuable because

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the Nuggets can't function without him, or is it the

264
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Nuggets have helped him win this award or this discussion

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by being the inferior team around him.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know the answer to that.

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I think, and I think like this is why if

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if if you have Shay as your MVP, and you're

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like I believe this with every fiber of my being,

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it's like got it? No? Not really don't have a

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counter really like that's that's totally cool by me. Didn't

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really have I think I would have to look back.

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But like I think Shaye winning it last year over

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Jokic was I have no problem with that, except I

275
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still would say that Jokic is the best player in

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the world. Like, I don't know how you square those

277
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two things. I just I don't know how I can

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believe be okay with Shae winning and still thinking that

279
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part of it is just like, statistically it's stupidly close.

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I think the only the only absolute certainty is is

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that right now it's these two guys and a yawning

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chasm and then Luca, and Luca's great, but like he's

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just not. He's not where these two guys are right now.

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And if you've got him in a different order, I

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don't know. So this is okay, this is what We've

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got A comment here that I would like to note

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here on the break pod, the historic nature of what

288
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Okaysee is doing has to mean Shae wins MVP. And

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I was gonna say earlier, like if they win seventy

290
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four games, like I don't you think, like it doesn't

291
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matter what Jokic does, Like Shay will win MVP if

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the Thunder wins seventy four games and he plays it

293
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stays healthy, right, like it.

294
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Speaker 2: Continues to have the highest true shooting percentage of anyone

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to average over twenty points per game, which, by the way,

296
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do you know who has previously the highest true shooting

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percentage of anyone else?

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Speaker 3: I have a strong suspicion basically we've been talking.

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Speaker 2: About Yeah, so would you even predict right now if

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we were predicting, which we're not.

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Speaker 1: We're making our own ballots.

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Speaker 2: I think Shay's going to win the MVP Awards, that

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would be my prediction.

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Speaker 3: I think I agree with you because it's not like, like,

305
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,600
what would the thunder are gonna finish ahead of Denver

306
00:14:50,679 --> 00:14:56,320
in the standings barring just something crazy Shay home or something.

307
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Jokic can't play better. It's not possible for a player

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to play better based on what we've seen in the

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history of the sport. So it's like he doesn't have

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another gear to hit, right like that, So those are

311
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the two ways that you would imagine Jokic overtaking him. Yeah,

312
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,480
the argument that, look, it's a team sport, right, so

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like the team that does the best, there's something happening

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with respect to their best player's value like that those

315
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,440
two things are related, right, Like even if you can

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see that Shay is the fifth most important defender on

317
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the team, and maybe even that's generous, it's like, well,

318
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I don't know, he's clearly like the alpha, he's the

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tone setter, he's the best player on this team, and

320
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,360
he's certainly not acting in a way that like allows

321
00:15:41,399 --> 00:15:44,919
for slacking on defense, like whatever whatever lead the rest

322
00:15:44,919 --> 00:15:47,360
of the Thunder are following from him, that's working, like

323
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he's he's you know, there's all these like unquantifiable things

324
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that go into team success that like you probably got

325
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to credit the best player for a lot of right,

326
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Like your team is defined by that guy, Like the

327
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Spurs were defined by Tim Duncan, like that kind of

328
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that kind of thing. So if the Thunder are just

329
00:16:04,159 --> 00:16:07,799
leaps and bounds better as a team than the Nuggets, yeah,

330
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,960
it's the supporting cast is better. But like I don't know,

331
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somewhere in there, there's credit for for Forresga, right, like

332
00:16:13,639 --> 00:16:17,159
just for being the most important guy and having some

333
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,039
outsize level of influence on everything the Thunder do. Well,

334
00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,279
that's not a crazy argument to me, But I don't

335
00:16:22,279 --> 00:16:24,919
know how you like throw that into the mix and

336
00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,799
use it against similar ones you could make for Jokic. So,

337
00:16:28,159 --> 00:16:30,559
I don't know, we've said enough. Probably he would probably.

338
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Speaker 2: Be shocked if we're not having the same discussion a

339
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couple of months from now when we when we do

340
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this again. And that's me three, I think clearly became

341
00:16:37,519 --> 00:16:39,399
Dauncic for me. When you look at how much time,

342
00:16:39,399 --> 00:16:40,559
you're honest, has now.

343
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Speaker 3: Missed Wemby missing time, Wemby would have been a factor

344
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for me top five, oh.

345
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Speaker 1: For sure, So Wemby as well.

346
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Speaker 2: It's just Wenby is like, well, now you've missed more

347
00:16:48,519 --> 00:16:49,759
than half your team's games, so.

348
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Speaker 3: We're not going to be a factor for me later.

349
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Speaker 1: Just uh what.

350
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Speaker 2: I still there's something about the Lakers that just doesn't

351
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,600
feel legitimate. But Luca has been spectacular, and that's with

352
00:17:03,679 --> 00:17:06,359
him not even being by and large as efficient as

353
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he could be from three yet, which is a little terrifying.

354
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Speaker 1: But you just you look at the numbers.

355
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Speaker 2: I think he's the easy third choice here where you

356
00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,200
get to four and five, where we both had Kid

357
00:17:16,279 --> 00:17:18,960
and Yannis. For me, some of the things that stood

358
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,640
out were the minutes at this point, Caid's like three

359
00:17:21,799 --> 00:17:25,519
hundred plus minutes ahead of Yannis. That just matters one

360
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:28,119
quarter of the way through the season. I also think

361
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,359
that the Pistons having just an eight point eight net

362
00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:34,000
rating with Cad Cunningham on the floor and an offense

363
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:38,240
that verges on elite statistically, that's kind of bonkers itself.

364
00:17:39,599 --> 00:17:41,599
The other thing, too, is he has the third highest

365
00:17:41,599 --> 00:17:44,400
true usage in the league among anyone to log at

366
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:47,240
least two hundred and fifty minutes. He's third in high

367
00:17:47,319 --> 00:17:50,720
value assists per one hundred possessions. He only trails Jokic

368
00:17:50,799 --> 00:17:53,240
and Grant. You want to know who's number two in

369
00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,160
that category, Please tell me it's LaMelo ball.

370
00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:00,079
Speaker 3: Oh that's not who I was expecting to hear the

371
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:00,400
break pot.

372
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,000
Speaker 1: I'm not sure Giannis makes it given the games. No

373
00:18:02,039 --> 00:18:02,400
he won't.

374
00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 2: But again, this is just what's happened so far. So

375
00:18:04,519 --> 00:18:06,480
he's played enough games for me to put him on

376
00:18:06,559 --> 00:18:09,920
top five. I'm just what I think Caid's the breadth

377
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:12,079
of his role just isn't appreciated because he's a part

378
00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:15,000
of their defense as well. It's not necessarily the same

379
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:17,160
as what Shaye is. Like, he's probably more important to

380
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,160
Detroit's defense than.

381
00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:20,640
Speaker 3: Sh Yeah, I thought you were going the other way.

382
00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:22,400
I think I yeah, I would make that argument. I

383
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,880
think Caid matters more defensively than Shaye does. And like,

384
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,279
so I looked this up the other day just trying

385
00:18:30,279 --> 00:18:32,680
not related to this, but was looking for just like

386
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,759
what's wrong with the Pistons. If I had to pick something,

387
00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,880
there's a few things caid. This was yesterday, so I

388
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,480
think this or maybe two days ago. He's shooting fifteen

389
00:18:41,519 --> 00:18:46,119
percent on catch and shoot Threeskate Cunningham, So I suspect

390
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,400
that's coming up. If we're talking about Luca, it needs

391
00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,160
to hit some threes like that's and he was at

392
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,119
thirty nine percent last year, which is like, yeah, forever

393
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,440
it's been well. The form looks good. Tho they're gonna

394
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,200
fall and they did buy and large last season. But

395
00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:03,359
but yeah, like, I think there's room for kid to

396
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,680
get better too. So I don't think three is sewn up,

397
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:07,799
but I agree with you that Luca obviously my ballots

398
00:19:07,839 --> 00:19:10,559
right there. I think Luca has pretty clearly been number three,

399
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,359
but there's some flexibility there, There's some movement there. I

400
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:14,440
think that's possible. Still.

401
00:19:14,519 --> 00:19:17,079
Speaker 2: I think after two there's still three feels closed off

402
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,079
right now, but it's not.

403
00:19:18,759 --> 00:19:20,160
Speaker 1: It'd be hard for me to imagine.

404
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,799
Speaker 2: I could imagine someone else usurping Luca at three then

405
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:27,920
easier than oh yeah, Luca usurping Shay or Yokich and two.

406
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 3: One and two are done. It's it'll be those two

407
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,359
in some order. The longer list, guys, I don't know

408
00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,720
if you have similar to me, but like not serious

409
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:38,480
considerations at all really for top five, but like Donovan

410
00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:41,480
Mitchell Steph before he missed the time. Even with that,

411
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,720
Anthony Edwards, Alprin, Shangoun, Jalen Brown, Tyrese MAXI, I didn't

412
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,960
go any farther than that. But there's a lot of

413
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:52,200
guys that could come into the top five, especially assuming

414
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,440
Giannis is going to fall out.

415
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: The other name, I'm both obligated to mention it and

416
00:19:56,559 --> 00:20:00,559
I believe it. Jalen Brunson was someone else obviously, Yeah,

417
00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:02,000
and sort of looking.

418
00:20:01,799 --> 00:20:02,799
Speaker 1: At the curve balls at play.

419
00:20:02,799 --> 00:20:04,240
Speaker 2: And it is a question from on the breakpod is

420
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,119
if the Celtics take the number one seed in the East,

421
00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:06,920
does Jalen Brown.

422
00:20:06,759 --> 00:20:09,039
Speaker 1: Get consideration over Kaid. He's absolutely.

423
00:20:09,039 --> 00:20:11,400
Speaker 2: I mean, if we're gonna if you right off Jannis

424
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,119
and Wemby from being in the final ballot, I don't.

425
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,440
There's at least two spots in the top five that

426
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,279
are up for grabs, so it could be. I'm trying

427
00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:21,039
to think if there's anyone we glossed over that just

428
00:20:21,079 --> 00:20:22,640
comes out of left field. It's oh, it's like just

429
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,039
Jalen Johnson the Hawks end up being like the freeze

430
00:20:25,279 --> 00:20:25,640
or something.

431
00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,440
Speaker 1: Does he end up being on those ballots?

432
00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 3: No, there's there's This is an illustration of how early

433
00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,480
it is because there's there's a dozen names. It could

434
00:20:32,519 --> 00:20:34,200
be fourth, you know, or better.

435
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,799
Speaker 2: Are you able to take us through your Defensive Player

436
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:41,000
of the Year ballot controversy, Frank.

437
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,440
Speaker 3: Oh, you gave me first of all. So I have

438
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:49,079
Wemby at number one. I don't care about the game's played,

439
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,599
Like he hasn't been disqualified from the full season award

440
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:56,000
yet that's not really here, neither here nor there. He

441
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,319
just is transformative and everything he does on defense is

442
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:03,319
there's just never been anybody like this guy. So until

443
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:05,559
I can't pick him, I'm gonna pick him chet number two.

444
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,480
I have Bam number three on my ballot, which the

445
00:21:10,519 --> 00:21:13,359
picture is on which hey, maybe at the end of

446
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,480
the year I will have a Men Thompson up there

447
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,880
at three. But and Bam was the like the third

448
00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,319
spot was was tricky. I really thought about Rudy Gobert

449
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:25,480
there just because the numbers are again just sort of

450
00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:28,519
undeniable in terms of this impact on the defense.

451
00:21:28,599 --> 00:21:32,279
Speaker 2: They're a team like in recent vintage that you look

452
00:21:32,319 --> 00:21:35,759
at the numbers on paper and it's all right, top

453
00:21:35,799 --> 00:21:38,160
ten at offensive defense that you watch them and you're like,

454
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,640
is this the team that like, this just doesn't align

455
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:41,680
with what I'm seeing on paper.

456
00:21:41,799 --> 00:21:43,839
Speaker 3: You know what's wild too with the with the Wolves

457
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,319
and this is not really go beart centric, although maybe

458
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,279
there's something to it. You know, their late game execution

459
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,119
is just shit. It's bad. They you know, they had

460
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,599
a Son's loss, a King's loss in November. They just

461
00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,279
gave one away and I watched it and I can't

462
00:21:59,319 --> 00:22:01,880
remember who the other team was now, but they shouldn't

463
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,039
have lost that one. And it's just like, yeah, so

464
00:22:06,079 --> 00:22:09,880
they're they're underlying numbers like overall their offenses whatever six,

465
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,039
then their defenses not or whatever it is. They're top

466
00:22:12,079 --> 00:22:16,440
ten on both ends, but like they're they're fundamentally flawed

467
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:19,000
and like how they try to score at the end

468
00:22:19,079 --> 00:22:21,480
of games, and that's the thing we've known for a

469
00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:22,839
long time and.

470
00:22:22,759 --> 00:22:24,559
Speaker 2: Maybe like I don't know what that is, but I've

471
00:22:24,599 --> 00:22:26,960
only I agree, created some first round picks for like

472
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:29,759
a top seven or a top eight. Yeah, for like

473
00:22:29,799 --> 00:22:32,400
a development a water you have to use the word

474
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,759
water bug because that was just always in the description.

475
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,039
Just a water bug scoring guard that could come in

476
00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:41,200
and play right away. Right, maybe he isn't able to

477
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:45,039
be rob or something the look. I can't contest you

478
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:46,799
putting Wemby at one other than to say that I

479
00:22:46,799 --> 00:22:48,599
don't think he's going to qualify for and he's played

480
00:22:48,599 --> 00:22:50,160
in less than half his team's games, which is why

481
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,279
I left him off so far. But if he's if

482
00:22:52,319 --> 00:22:54,839
you think he's playing enough games, there is nobody that's

483
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,279
Defensive Player of the Year, Rudy Gobert, you mentioned it.

484
00:22:57,599 --> 00:23:02,400
The numbers for me are just too insane. He's fifth

485
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:05,359
in RIM points saved per seventy five possessions and the

486
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,200
Wolves are fourteen point five points better per one hundred

487
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,319
possessions with him on the floor. Defensively, that's the difference

488
00:23:11,559 --> 00:23:15,119
between basically being the Wizards on defense and then having

489
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:17,319
the second but being not the Thunder on defense and

490
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:22,079
in number two opponent. Rim frequency declines by twelve percentage

491
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,839
points when he's on the floor, and teams take a

492
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:27,759
lot of those bailout floaters against him or when he's

493
00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:30,599
on the court, which they're missing because he's doing less.

494
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:32,519
When you look at the percentage of his shots contested

495
00:23:32,559 --> 00:23:34,640
at the rim, and it doesn't feel like he's covering

496
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,799
both sides of the pick.

497
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:37,039
Speaker 3: And roll as well.

498
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, at the same time, like he's still forcing dudes

499
00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:43,640
to miss those type of floater shots. There's seven points

500
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:46,559
percentage worse teams are when he's on the court. I

501
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:48,680
just if you're gonna be your team's lifeline. We went

502
00:23:48,759 --> 00:23:51,240
through this kind of with Jokis for MVP Rudy Gobert.

503
00:23:51,279 --> 00:23:53,960
Is that defensively to Minnesota still?

504
00:23:54,279 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 1: Now? Is that a feature or a bug of the Timberwolves?

505
00:23:58,759 --> 00:24:00,759
Speaker 2: You could decide, But I think I don't know if

506
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:04,359
he'll stay here for me. But he is a one

507
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,200
man system still or a fringe one man system, which

508
00:24:07,759 --> 00:24:09,759
this late into his career is pretty wild.

509
00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 3: We both have chet too. Did you watch any of

510
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,880
the of the I'll just I don't have to phrase

511
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,599
it that way. In the first half, which was the

512
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,119
was not really relevant. Pretty quickly again in the in

513
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:24,519
the Cup game against Phoenix, which is playing without Devin Booker,

514
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:27,440
the Thunder were up fifty at one point in that game.

515
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,319
Maybe they want it by fifty. I checked out at halftime.

516
00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,880
I'll just admit that I was thinking that it's really

517
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:38,920
hard to apportion credit in the thunders defense, except I

518
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:43,000
think Chet just by himself does things that nobody on

519
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:45,599
that defense can do. Like, well, okay, so it's it's

520
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,039
Caruso and Cason Wallace and Shake and Guard and Dork

521
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,279
and guard. Obviously they have all these just just like

522
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,160
savages on the perimeter that just like you can't dribble

523
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,039
around right, and they're super athletic and fast and they

524
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,000
play hard. You can interchange all those guys. You could

525
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:00,799
take Caruso out for two months, the Thunder is still

526
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:02,960
gonna have the best defense in the league. I think

527
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:06,000
Chet the way he changes shots, like he had a

528
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,960
bunch of highlight blocks right where he just like got

529
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,319
there and the guy was on the way down and

530
00:25:09,319 --> 00:25:11,519
he swats it out of bounds. But he made Royce

531
00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:13,920
O'Neill miss a layup that he should have made. He

532
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:15,960
made Dylan Brooks miss layups that he should have made

533
00:25:16,079 --> 00:25:18,839
just by kind of being there, and like his mobility

534
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,279
at that side, like Chet. Really we've talked about this before.

535
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:24,920
If not for Wemby, I think Chet would be a

536
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,279
great bet to win like three or four dpo Wie

537
00:25:27,599 --> 00:25:30,240
over the course of his career, like he's he's he's

538
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:32,400
a wrong place, wrong time guy in terms of like

539
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,119
generational defenders.

540
00:25:34,039 --> 00:25:36,319
Speaker 2: And even during you mentioned the ground that he could cover.

541
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,640
So even when you like when Isaiah Hartenstein's healthy him

542
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:41,519
they're playing together, like his ability to not be the

543
00:25:41,559 --> 00:25:44,559
primary paint protector, but he's still their primary rim protector

544
00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:45,240
while doing so.

545
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,279
Speaker 1: That's insanity. So he he was number two for me.

546
00:25:49,319 --> 00:25:51,279
Speaker 2: It's like you said, it's hard to apportion credit for

547
00:25:51,319 --> 00:25:54,799
the Thunder defense, but I think he's the singular most

548
00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:58,079
important that it almost feels, you know, shout out to

549
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,079
Mike Sheer of Basketball Poetry, who does his own Interior

550
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,759
Defensive Player of the Year and then Perimeter Defensive Player

551
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:05,359
of the Year. I'm wondering if the league should start

552
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,279
to separate that. But then it's then it's also Chet

553
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:09,200
does both.

554
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:12,880
Speaker 3: Right, right right, and you would not. I mean, that's

555
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,759
why Bam is on my ballot. It's like the rim

556
00:26:14,799 --> 00:26:17,000
protection has always been less than you want from him,

557
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,200
but it's it's ok. It's enough, like the Heat have

558
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,880
had good defenses built around him long enough that it works.

559
00:26:23,319 --> 00:26:25,839
Speaker 2: Do you know what I found fascinating about BAM's case, though, is,

560
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:29,160
so the Heat's defense is significantly better with him on

561
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,240
the floor, and yet opponent effective field goal percentage is

562
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,640
noticeably higher when he's on the court.

563
00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:36,880
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do with that.

564
00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: That I looked into it, and I don't really know

565
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,799
what to do with it either, other than when I

566
00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:42,240
watch him, it feels like he snuffs out like eight

567
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,279
things on every single possession, and yeah, a lot of

568
00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:46,799
the time it has nothing to do with protecting the basket.

569
00:26:46,839 --> 00:26:48,319
Speaker 1: And I'm okay, I think he.

570
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: Is just like is he is Bam the league's most

571
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:53,160
versatile defender.

572
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 3: I mean, he's always on the short list. I don't

573
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,880
know who you'd throw up there, Like Ojiananoba used to

574
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,519
always be someone you'd position there, but Bam is just

575
00:27:02,519 --> 00:27:04,799
a little bigger. Like I feel better with Bam on

576
00:27:04,839 --> 00:27:07,480
a center than I do with OG and maybe even

577
00:27:07,519 --> 00:27:09,200
I almost feel better with Bam on a point guard

578
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:09,519
than I.

579
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: Do with oj, you know, I feel better about that.

580
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I don't know who else I would nominate for.

581
00:27:15,319 --> 00:27:17,279
I mean, Wemby, I guess, because it's not like guards

582
00:27:17,319 --> 00:27:19,400
are going to victimize him ever. But that's kind of

583
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,720
like like he could block a three pointer from rights. Yeah,

584
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:25,920
he can get beat by three steps and still pin

585
00:27:26,039 --> 00:27:29,079
it on the glass, like just from because of reach. Yeah,

586
00:27:29,079 --> 00:27:31,599
I don't know. Yeah, Bam BAM's great. I'm always gonna

587
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:33,319
have Bam on these Do you have any Were there

588
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:36,160
any like tougher tough emissions since we kind of stopped

589
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,440
the ballot at three.

590
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,519
Speaker 2: Every single player on the thunder basically, I mean there

591
00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,279
is that you know who's also tough to a port

592
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:45,559
like Detroit's defense.

593
00:27:45,799 --> 00:27:47,799
Speaker 1: Who do you apportion credit for that? Is it Durant?

594
00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 2: It feels like it's Isaiah Stewart, but it's also oh

595
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,039
it's r Thompson and Kay Cunningham?

596
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:52,799
Speaker 1: Are there?

597
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 3: Ron Holland like that? That's they're very thunder East in

598
00:27:56,799 --> 00:27:59,160
terms of like a somebody's They're all kind of doing it.

599
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,079
I don't know who you single out.

600
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: I thought I was like, I'm and Thompson would have

601
00:28:04,319 --> 00:28:06,039
to be the guy from Houston if he wanted to

602
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:09,200
go that route. I think Draymond has not been as good,

603
00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:10,960
but it's still really good.

604
00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:14,319
Speaker 1: I'm marvel had he played more minutes this year.

605
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 2: I mean, like Jealen Suggs might seek his way into

606
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,839
that discussion yes, I gave some consideration to Scotty Barnes too.

607
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,880
I think he's been The Raptors are kind of free falling,

608
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,359
but Scotty Barnes has been spectacular defensively.

609
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,599
Speaker 1: I ultimately, did you have a tough cut? Though it

610
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:28,559
wasn't like I felt.

611
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 3: I mean, it was Gobert For me. Gobert was could

612
00:28:32,279 --> 00:28:34,640
easily have been a top three. I'm trying to I'm

613
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,519
looking at my list. Yeah, so I go right to

614
00:28:36,559 --> 00:28:39,720
the guards after those four my ballot plus Gobert, and

615
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:43,000
it's like, I'm not gonna pick Wallace or Suggs for

616
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:48,720
a top three. So Zach Edy has played eleven games

617
00:28:48,759 --> 00:28:52,319
as we record this, if he had twice that many games,

618
00:28:52,319 --> 00:28:54,640
he would be on the ballot, just because the numbers

619
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,720
are preposterous. Like he leads the league in defensive estimated

620
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,039
plus minus, like right now he's the league leader. And

621
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,519
like the yeah, right, opponent shooting at the rim just

622
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,680
withers when he's in the game, like the defensive rebounding he.

623
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 2: I mean, their shooting opponents are shooting sixteen point nine

624
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,440
points worse at the basket with with him.

625
00:29:18,279 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 3: And you can cite the small sample and you should,

626
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,920
But like, how bad would he have to be for

627
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,640
the next eleven games for those numbers to still not

628
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,000
be incredible? Like he's been so good since coming back

629
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,680
that like he could be objectively terrible for a week

630
00:29:34,799 --> 00:29:38,000
or two and he would still have a statistical case

631
00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:41,319
I think for for being among the best defensive players

632
00:29:41,319 --> 00:29:41,920
in the league.

633
00:29:42,119 --> 00:29:45,319
Speaker 2: Do you think, well, how many games has he missed

634
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:46,000
this season?

635
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,799
Speaker 3: He's played eleven out of twenty four as I'm looking

636
00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:49,400
at it right.

637
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,519
Speaker 1: Now, so his margin for error is four games.

638
00:29:51,759 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, he so, I mean he's gonna miss form more.

639
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:55,400
It's just he's going to happen.

640
00:29:55,759 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: I was about saying, do you think he'll make all defense? Wait?

641
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,960
Is there is there a minimum for all defense?

642
00:30:01,559 --> 00:30:04,079
Speaker 3: Is that you know? I can never remember? There must be?

643
00:30:04,079 --> 00:30:05,559
Because did Wemby win it last year?

644
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 2: Oh? You're right, it's all Rookie is the one that

645
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,559
you can kind of throw it out the wad? Yeah,

646
00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:10,039
Because I was going to ask, do you think he

647
00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:11,920
could make all Yeah?

648
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: But at the games play, he's just knocking.

649
00:30:13,319 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 3: If he plays fifty games at anything close to this,

650
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:21,480
I'm gonna think real hard about about giving it. Like, yeah,

651
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,799
I don't care. Can we talk about, so like maybe

652
00:30:25,839 --> 00:30:28,200
this isn't necessary. Most Improved is kind of the place

653
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:30,880
to talk about it. I don't know where we're going next, uh,

654
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,680
but like I think this the sixty five game limit,

655
00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:36,680
Like why are we imposing additional rule? Like you know,

656
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,640
you hear people like I think you should outlaw second

657
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,680
year players winning Most Improved, and like if you don't

658
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:43,200
want to vote for a second year player, there's lots

659
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,200
of good reasons to do that, laying out of like

660
00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:47,599
some kind of hard and fast rule that says you

661
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,440
cannot that they're ineligible. It is like so ridiculous, And

662
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,319
that got me thinking about the sixty five game rule.

663
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:54,880
Why are we doing this? And like how how stupid

664
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,519
does that rule look now when all the conversations are

665
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:00,160
about it's impossible to play NBA basketball for eighty two games,

666
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,359
like the physical the human body can't stand it because

667
00:31:02,359 --> 00:31:04,519
it's so fast. Now it's so difficult to play, and

668
00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:07,559
yet there's this rule that we have that eliminates guys

669
00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:11,279
that Like the rule was stupid at the outset, and

670
00:31:11,319 --> 00:31:14,799
it looks even dumber now because it was designed because

671
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,960
through we want TV revenue or whatever to coax these

672
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:21,759
guys to play more. It's just like how miss it's

673
00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:24,319
misguided on every level. We don't need a sixty five

674
00:31:24,359 --> 00:31:27,799
game qualifier to determine who the MVP is or who's

675
00:31:27,799 --> 00:31:31,160
all NBA. Like, let us decide if fifty five games

676
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,519
at level X, what that means against seventy one at

677
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:36,880
level Y, Like we can. We can do that, It's

678
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,319
not hard. I just sorry that the awards putting these

679
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,039
artificial the constraints on award voting is so stupid to me.

680
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 2: I think if you have personal constraint because I fall

681
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,880
into that MIP camp that I reach.

682
00:31:48,759 --> 00:31:51,279
Speaker 3: That's fine, But that's your rule. It's not like it's

683
00:31:51,279 --> 00:31:53,079
not like the sixty five game rules. Just like you

684
00:31:53,119 --> 00:31:54,519
can't this guy is ineligible.

685
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,799
Speaker 2: Do you think that there should be a threshold all

686
00:31:56,799 --> 00:31:59,480
to where it's fifty games no or something no.

687
00:31:59,559 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 3: I can just if I can decide if forty eight

688
00:32:02,759 --> 00:32:05,119
games played at this level or more valuable or is

689
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,039
more worthy of an award than seventy five, I'll probably

690
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:10,559
pick seventy five games, all things being equal, of course,

691
00:32:10,599 --> 00:32:12,400
but like let me decide that.

692
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:13,319
Speaker 1: Now.

693
00:32:13,799 --> 00:32:15,839
Speaker 2: I'm just playing Devil's Advocate because I agree with everything

694
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:19,119
you said. I wonder if you is there the risk

695
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:21,680
of veering too far in the territory of is the

696
00:32:21,839 --> 00:32:25,920
NBA admitting what is true that eighty two games is

697
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,119
too long at that point by getting rid of the threshold,

698
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,160
and then it dilutes the meaning of the regular season.

699
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,240
I don't know how much that actually matters, because I'm

700
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,000
not sure guys aren't.

701
00:32:35,279 --> 00:32:36,519
Speaker 1: We've seen it a couple of times.

702
00:32:36,599 --> 00:32:38,839
Speaker 2: You could get into the haliburt and stuff the other year,

703
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:42,720
But how many guys are actually pushing themselves past their

704
00:32:42,759 --> 00:32:47,160
limitations that like safely to meet that sixty five game threshold.

705
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,759
It's to be, It's happened, But I don't know that.

706
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,079
Like players even look at this, I almost feel like

707
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:57,640
by implementing that threshold, you're accomplishing the opposite to where

708
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,319
you're making the awards mean less because you're trying to

709
00:33:00,319 --> 00:33:02,799
make it seem like the regular season means more.

710
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 3: I think I think, if uh, well, one, it's like

711
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,920
impossible to know, like who's who would or wouldn't have

712
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,480
played if not for the rule with like backspasms or

713
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:11,759
what like whatever, Like my.

714
00:33:11,799 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: Captain would have come back already.

715
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 3: Well, it's just like but but no, I agree with

716
00:33:17,039 --> 00:33:20,599
you and the idea. What really that argument makes a

717
00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:22,440
case for Is it, like, well, his rules of failure

718
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,759
on on yet another level, right If it's if in

719
00:33:25,799 --> 00:33:28,720
fact it's not actually forcing players to cut through stuff,

720
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,799
if they're just saying like, okay, I don't need all NBA,

721
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,480
then I guess then it's then it has failed in

722
00:33:33,519 --> 00:33:35,920
its in its main purpose, which is to get guys

723
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,960
to play more. Just get rid of it.

724
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:41,839
Speaker 2: Our next award. Can you take us through your Rookie

725
00:33:41,839 --> 00:33:42,799
of the Year ballot?

726
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: Yes? Uh konk Nipple one, uh Cooper Flag two, Cedric

727
00:33:48,559 --> 00:33:50,720
Coward three. Three was the hard part. One and two

728
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:56,279
were pretty easy for me. Canipple just like arrived with

729
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,119
all of the strengths that everyone saw in him, and

730
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,240
the concerns just haven't really materialized and or have been

731
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,279
outweighed by the strength of shot making. The catch and

732
00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:08,599
shoot just lights out catch and shoot. Guy is really

733
00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:11,880
strong and smart, has great balance control, like understands how

734
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,960
to use his frame to be successful as as an

735
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:19,480
offensive player outside of just spot shooting. I don't know

736
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:21,840
what what kind of ceiling we're talking about with him.

737
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,840
It would be silly to like really get into it

738
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:28,519
because he's so young, but I like, you can't rule

739
00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:31,000
out like all Star, but you know, and maybe more

740
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:34,840
than that, just just because like I do think based

741
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:37,079
on some of the passing and just the general feel

742
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,599
that he's shown in addition to making forty percent of

743
00:34:40,599 --> 00:34:43,280
his threes, like I think he's someone that you can

744
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:46,400
definitely give the ball to more and expect good results

745
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,840
as he develops. He's going to be athletically limited, but

746
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,960
like I don't know, isn't Luca, isn't kid to some extent,

747
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,679
like these guys just these these bulkier guard slash forwards

748
00:34:56,679 --> 00:34:58,519
that know how to use their size and get to

749
00:34:58,599 --> 00:35:01,840
spots and hold those spots. Like that's a real skill

750
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,199
in the modern NBA, and like everyone wants it and

751
00:35:04,199 --> 00:35:06,639
not everyone has the frame to pull it off. So

752
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,760
do I think Canipple is gonna win Rookie of the Year. No,

753
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,239
I think he's been the best rookie so far. Uh

754
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,480
And that's kind of a story in itself because Flag

755
00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:18,800
has I mean just hasn't made a three it seems

756
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:20,559
like all year, and he's still so good at so

757
00:35:20,599 --> 00:35:22,199
many other things that he's just gonnat.

758
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:25,199
Speaker 2: He's looked a lot better since they've kind of veered

759
00:35:25,199 --> 00:35:27,519
away from the whole Cooper flag.

760
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,280
Speaker 3: Is weird, hard, how strange.

761
00:35:31,599 --> 00:35:34,079
Speaker 2: There's what have been optimizing him, to be clear, but

762
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:36,519
he's just more he's closer to optimize now than he was,

763
00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:38,599
and he's just it bleeds through very easily.

764
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:41,079
Speaker 3: What would Carnipple's Rookie of the Year case look like

765
00:35:41,119 --> 00:35:43,320
if they just if the Hornets had just decided you're

766
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,440
a center. Now you play center. It's just probably not

767
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:47,039
not that great.

768
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:49,559
Speaker 1: So you know about Ryan Kalkbrenner, maybe.

769
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,320
Speaker 3: He's on my long list, go ahead, I would say

770
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,480
eighty just as a rookie.

771
00:35:56,679 --> 00:35:57,599
Speaker 1: This is insane to me.

772
00:35:58,159 --> 00:36:03,079
Speaker 2: Eighty second percentile in self created shot making efficiency. He's

773
00:36:03,159 --> 00:36:06,039
hitting forty eight point seven percent grant of his self

774
00:36:06,079 --> 00:36:10,000
created threes my one qualm, and it's not with him.

775
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,920
I want to see more of that. Let's have him

776
00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:14,920
run picking rolls, especially if a Melo is going to

777
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,039
be injured. Maybe that's something they get to more of

778
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:20,440
post All Star or post whatever, post trade deadline, whatever

779
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,480
it ends up being. But when you're talking about his ceiling,

780
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,880
I feel like part of the reason we might not

781
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,119
know where to pegg it is there's still more things

782
00:36:29,119 --> 00:36:31,039
that I think they could explore with him on the

783
00:36:31,119 --> 00:36:31,920
offensive end.

784
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:34,079
Speaker 3: Well, and you're talking about more pick and roll stuff.

785
00:36:34,079 --> 00:36:37,599
I mean, I think I imagine him in an offense like

786
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,639
the Heat run and he's such an intuitive cutter and

787
00:36:40,679 --> 00:36:43,559
he sees the floor so well that, like, I think

788
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:46,400
he would be hugely successful in that kind of system too,

789
00:36:46,519 --> 00:36:50,039
where it's just like the Heat kind of operate on

790
00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,519
like if the guy's open in the right place and

791
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:54,800
the passes on time, he scores, it doesn't matter who

792
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,360
it is. I think can Nipple would be phenomenal as

793
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,599
both like the setup guy, the decision maker, and the

794
00:36:59,599 --> 00:37:02,800
finish or a in a scheme like that. So like,

795
00:37:03,119 --> 00:37:06,760
I agree, like there's a lot of ways conventionally and

796
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,559
maybe unconventionally tactically speaking, for him to be much more

797
00:37:10,599 --> 00:37:11,760
successful going forward.

798
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 1: What's the case for Coward over Clean for.

799
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:19,679
Speaker 3: You early season moment, It's no, It's really hard. I

800
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,719
struggled with it. I get I think I think I

801
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,840
like it. It's easier for me to understand like what

802
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,920
Coward is maybe is like because statistically they're fairly comparable.

803
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,480
Queen had the triple double recently and has been just

804
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,039
playing better lately than Coward. Like, if we'd gone another

805
00:37:37,079 --> 00:37:40,400
week or two, maybe my ballot would would be identical

806
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,760
to yours and I'd have Queen there. I think the

807
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,239
size at the position, the potential for shooting, it's cooled

808
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,400
off a ton. He's under thirty two percent from deep

809
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,679
right now, the defensive upside. Just like I look at

810
00:37:53,679 --> 00:37:55,239
Coward and I'm like, oh, I know, I think I

811
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:58,920
know what that is, and that's very, very valuable, especially

812
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,920
if he becomes even more of like an on ball option.

813
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,400
Queen is like, I mean, I maybe we know what

814
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,840
he is, and maybe it's like the Jokic stuff and

815
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,880
that Shengoon stuff like that's I don't know if that

816
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:14,280
becomes a player type cool, But it's just like those

817
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,920
guys seem more like anomalies. But Queen's been really good.

818
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,719
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna knock what he's done

819
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:20,159
so far.

820
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just look at him already being the foundation

821
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,559
for so much of the offense himself having to run.

822
00:38:26,599 --> 00:38:28,960
He's in the seventy six percent tile of true usage,

823
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:30,280
just as a rookie.

824
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,360
Speaker 1: Big man is kind of bonkers.

825
00:38:33,159 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 2: The fit in New Orleans also hasn't been like him

826
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:37,320
and Zion when Zion was healthy was not.

827
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:39,519
Speaker 1: They made it work, but it wasn't super intuitive.

828
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: You have defensive concerns, I think, because you don't have

829
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:45,239
that with Coward, who has taken on Remember we talked

830
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,800
a lot about with jaellen Wells last year the difficulty

831
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,920
of his role on defense. Cowhard has taken on a

832
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,960
lot of that this year too.

833
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:53,079
Speaker 1: From the wings.

834
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 2: I just with the recent like not being able to

835
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,280
hit a three basically over the last ten games. It

836
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,199
was and with Queen because Queen kind of had the

837
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,400
slower start that he was working through an injury at

838
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,159
the beginning of the season. But I look at Queen

839
00:39:03,199 --> 00:39:06,280
as someone who can actively run your entire offense, and

840
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,079
I look people have shit on his defense, and I

841
00:39:09,119 --> 00:39:10,880
think a lot of the times rightfully. So he's just

842
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,360
got better hands and more playmaking potential on defense than

843
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:15,440
I had thought.

844
00:39:15,679 --> 00:39:19,199
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm over indexing on that, but I this one.

845
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,119
It was for me.

846
00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:21,679
Speaker 2: It was Coward or Queen, and I didn't really there

847
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:23,800
were other names you could throw in there. Jeremiah Fears,

848
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:27,440
Queen's teammate Ryan Calkbrenner, and Charlotte as well. Conkorin Nipple's

849
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,840
teammate VJ. Edgecombe cooled off a ton after a hot start.

850
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,599
I've still been pretty impressed with his defensive activity.

851
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:34,679
Speaker 1: There are other names that you.

852
00:39:34,679 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 2: Could throw out, too, but I thought that there was

853
00:39:36,519 --> 00:39:38,360
For me, there was a pretty hard and fast four.

854
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,639
Speaker 3: I agree. A couple other names to maybe mention here,

855
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,239
James cooled off, Ryan Nemhard that's another one, like if

856
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,079
we've done this, if he keeps us up and there's

857
00:39:50,119 --> 00:39:52,519
another week or two, like Nemhart feels like an All

858
00:39:52,599 --> 00:39:55,960
Rookie team guy potentially if this persists, it's just like

859
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,280
he hasn't been doing this all season. So the samples

860
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,760
a little small there for giving just the award based

861
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,199
on what's happened to this point. Will Richard, Uh, there

862
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:05,480
it is.

863
00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: I was waiting's Bailey?

864
00:40:07,679 --> 00:40:09,559
Speaker 3: Are we are we still thinking about him at all?

865
00:40:09,639 --> 00:40:12,920
Like it it's mostly just kind of theoretical. But you said,

866
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:13,960
Carl Printer, that was when.

867
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,639
Speaker 2: We can't forget he's not This wouldn't be a wild card,

868
00:40:16,639 --> 00:40:18,719
but you know who could still I think still has

869
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,119
time to get in there. Dylan Harper looks fantastic. Yeah,

870
00:40:22,159 --> 00:40:23,679
there's no games played minimum here.

871
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 3: So if you're asking me who the five best rookies are,

872
00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:30,840
Harper's on the list, but it's just he hasn't he

873
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:31,679
hasn't played enough.

874
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:34,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this one seemed pretty straightforward. Is the next

875
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,239
one grant as straightforward? Your most improved player? Well, sir,

876
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,480
which is also my most improved player ballot?

877
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, we seem to think it's pretty straightforward. I'll just

878
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:48,119
run through it. Danny Avdia takes it second, Jalen Duran third,

879
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:53,119
Ryan Rawlins three very good illustrations of the different types

880
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:57,679
of improvement that get you mentioned, and most improved Well, perfectly.

881
00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:58,079
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it.

882
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, so Avdia, like the bucket you put ada

883
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,239
in is very good player. Who I mean, I don't

884
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:07,639
know what you do with this aspect of it, but

885
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:10,199
like kind of showed this was in there late last season,

886
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,039
but you couldn't trust it because it was not a

887
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:16,440
large sample and the Blazers weren't playing meaningful games. And

888
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:20,840
kind of good player that Oh god, he's an All

889
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,159
NBA pick right now if we had to, like, he's

890
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:27,679
he's a on there, a superstar two way now. A

891
00:41:27,679 --> 00:41:29,559
lot of people pointing out the defense has slipped a

892
00:41:29,559 --> 00:41:31,079
little bit that used to be kind of his like

893
00:41:31,159 --> 00:41:34,400
calling card. I'm going to allow it because he averaging

894
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,000
twenty five and five. When you lead the league in

895
00:41:37,119 --> 00:41:40,440
drives and yet you're you're taking on it.

896
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:43,599
Speaker 2: He needs even draw like assists off drives too. He's

897
00:41:43,639 --> 00:41:45,559
passing fifty percent of the time. About it, Like, this

898
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:48,760
guy is the everything to Portland's offense.

899
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,800
Speaker 3: Right, and it's a bad offense. But that's because they

900
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:54,039
don't have guards. Like you wonder if they'd had guards,

901
00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:56,599
what he would look what would he be allowed to

902
00:41:56,599 --> 00:41:56,960
do this?

903
00:41:57,159 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 1: Like?

904
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,079
Speaker 3: And what does it look like if and when they

905
00:41:59,079 --> 00:42:01,800
do have guards? Again, I think I don't take the

906
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:02,719
ball out of his hands.

907
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:05,320
Speaker 2: Right, But the other thing too is that they're in

908
00:42:05,559 --> 00:42:08,559
the seventieth percent of offensive efficiency when he's on the floor.

909
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,000
Pretty good, right, That's that's a huge lift for him, Like, yeah,

910
00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:12,639
for sure.

911
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 3: He's a superstar, Like it has played like a superstar so far.

912
00:42:16,519 --> 00:42:19,519
So like you're talking about like the level of leap,

913
00:42:19,639 --> 00:42:21,840
Like it's kind of like it's really hard to go

914
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,039
from forty five wins to fifty five, and it's even

915
00:42:25,079 --> 00:42:26,920
harder to go fifty five to sixty five as a

916
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,480
team like you can. The only higher leap is if

917
00:42:29,519 --> 00:42:31,880
he were to become a player like him, would be

918
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:35,199
would join the MVP discussion like in a year, right,

919
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,920
Like that's that's the only higher level leap. What's the DURAN?

920
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,079
What's the duran archetype like for improvement that is different

921
00:42:43,079 --> 00:42:43,639
from obdia?

922
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,519
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, it's well, it's sort of like the

923
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,960
initial leap that Tenny Avvia made. Where's we think this

924
00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:52,000
player might be good, We're not sure of his value,

925
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,840
but then you watch him in Portland for after a

926
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,960
slow start last season, and it's, oh, he's gotten better

927
00:42:57,280 --> 00:43:01,199
incrementally on defense. The offense he shoulders more of a

928
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,039
self creation burden. He's never been more efficient on self

929
00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:07,920
created shots. The Pistons offense when Cad plays without him

930
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,400
is really really bad. So like just the gravity, like

931
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,199
the the utility he provides is a screener with the

932
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,039
vertical gravity, he's not his assist numbers don't pop. But

933
00:43:17,079 --> 00:43:19,519
because he's a threat of making plays in space for

934
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:21,360
in the short role and just I don't want to

935
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,840
see this all the time. I think they've done a

936
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,599
better job of blending it than they did two years

937
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:27,480
ago or whatever, Like, yeah, this is a big man.

938
00:43:27,519 --> 00:43:29,199
I can grab a rebound and dribble up the floor

939
00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:31,280
or just attack in space put the ball on the deck.

940
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:36,920
He's going from like that play like that role player

941
00:43:37,119 --> 00:43:40,079
to fringe All Star candidate type, which feels like the

942
00:43:40,079 --> 00:43:44,000
more is that the more traditional most improved player case

943
00:43:44,039 --> 00:43:47,360
with Denny avvia the conventional one where his is is

944
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:51,480
his similar to when MAXI won or when Larry marketing

945
00:43:51,639 --> 00:43:53,360
even one, especially because it's a little bit later in

946
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:54,039
their careers.

947
00:43:54,880 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe I feel like so during I think I

948
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,679
think he gets a little bit of the oh that's

949
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,559
a new skill, like that wasn't there before, kind of

950
00:44:06,679 --> 00:44:11,320
kind of most improved classification because and you mentioned it,

951
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,719
like he now just can take his man off the

952
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,519
dribble from a standstill and and lay the ball up

953
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,000
or get fouled like he's drawing way more foul.

954
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,559
Speaker 1: Like that just percentages up too.

955
00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 3: That's he just couldn't do that right, Like so that

956
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:25,480
is just I don't know if like he was not

957
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,320
encouraged to do it or my suspicion is like he

958
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,159
just wasn't good at it, and now he's good at it.

959
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:33,519
That's like the definition of improvement the other thing, and

960
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:36,559
maybe this it's hard to say whether this matters more,

961
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,199
it matters at least as much is I never really

962
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,480
felt good about him as well. He's the ank he's

963
00:44:43,519 --> 00:44:46,360
the anchor of a very good defense. I don't know

964
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,360
that I'd go that far yet. I think we've talked

965
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,920
about the Pistons have a million good defenders, and and

966
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,119
I think during just frankly as the second best defensive

967
00:44:54,159 --> 00:44:57,800
center on this team, I think Stewart is better. He's

968
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,400
a he's a key part of a very good defense.

969
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,800
Like he's not hurting the Pistons defense. I think he

970
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,960
is a plus defender. And that was just like I

971
00:45:06,039 --> 00:45:08,480
don't think we knew we've I didn't feel confident that

972
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:10,119
that was ever going to be the case with him,

973
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,760
just because of some of the lapses that he would show.

974
00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:15,599
Some of the rim protection numbers were like not as

975
00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:17,679
good as you'd like them to be. Yeah, So the

976
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:19,960
new skill is an offensive just like I can score

977
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:22,679
now on my guy that that's a valuable thing on

978
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:24,840
an offense that it's kind of kate or nothing a

979
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,880
lot of the time. And then he he is a

980
00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:32,119
major contributor to one of the best defense. Like the

981
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,360
level he's at is not He's not at Avvidya's level.

982
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,719
But I think, you know, I really like the new

983
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,840
the like this is a new thing that he's doing.

984
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,440
Avidia is just doing like everything more and better. You know,

985
00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:47,840
it's not like Avdya. I don't know what Avidiya would

986
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:49,440
have had to do to add a new skill. Maybe

987
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,440
it's just like the drive frequency or something. Let's talk

988
00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:54,400
about Ryan Rowlins though, because this is a very yet

989
00:45:54,440 --> 00:46:01,079
another very different type of candidacy. Like basically like if

990
00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:03,199
you hadn't there was a shot you were never going

991
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,519
to hear his name again in an NBA scenario eighteen

992
00:46:07,519 --> 00:46:10,639
months ago, maybe even less than that, and now he

993
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,719
is the second best player on the bucks for my money,

994
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,519
So yeah, what have you seen from him?

995
00:46:16,159 --> 00:46:19,119
Speaker 2: It's just I mean, look, everything he's doing, we saw

996
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,800
maybe hints of it last year, and he's just turned

997
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,599
the dials up to eleven on it. There's still a

998
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:26,800
lot of the three point efficiency that's being carried. As

999
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:30,159
he's shooting forty six percent on catch and shoot threes. Fine,

1000
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:32,920
like that's okay, Like if he's gonna shoot thirty three

1001
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,480
percent on self created threes, then kind of so be

1002
00:46:35,559 --> 00:46:38,400
it someone who could put like get the ball inside

1003
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:40,639
the arc and force defenses into rotation. We've seen that

1004
00:46:40,679 --> 00:46:43,440
from him. The six sister per game have been huge

1005
00:46:43,679 --> 00:46:45,760
for the Bucks this season. And then just someone who

1006
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,480
is it's not even that he is not going to

1007
00:46:48,559 --> 00:46:49,440
hurt your defense.

1008
00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 1: If your defense is going to be.

1009
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,920
Speaker 2: Good, he can be a critical part of it because

1010
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,480
of the level of assignments he's able to handle in

1011
00:46:55,519 --> 00:46:56,199
the back court.

1012
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 1: And he's just super like words, not aggressive.

1013
00:47:00,039 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: It's just like active and steadfast on that where it's

1014
00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:05,000
just like he's not going to get thrown off by

1015
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:07,039
screens or he's not gonna lose his guy off the ball.

1016
00:47:07,079 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: He's just hyper aware might be might be the way

1017
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:10,159
to describe it.

1018
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,360
Speaker 2: And he's he's also the guy where it's you mentioned

1019
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:14,559
if you thought he was gonna be out of the

1020
00:47:14,599 --> 00:47:17,360
league eighteen months ago, whatever, It's okay, he has this

1021
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,840
low baseline, but it's we're in year four for him,

1022
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,679
and he showed something last year and now it's clearly

1023
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,239
that it's been sustainable. And did you ever look at

1024
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,239
him as someone who it's, oh, like he can kind

1025
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:31,880
of be you don't want to call him the captain

1026
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,840
of an offense, but like, no, he can be the

1027
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,800
point guard in your offense, and you can it doesn't

1028
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:40,760
matter which star he's around, because he fits alongside everybody.

1029
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,039
Speaker 1: It's a it's one heck of a case.

1030
00:47:43,039 --> 00:47:44,880
Speaker 2: And if he keeps this up for the entire season,

1031
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:47,880
and honestly wouldn't shock me if he won the award.

1032
00:47:48,119 --> 00:47:52,880
It's just such disparate legs of this entire discussion to

1033
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:54,639
where it's what do you ve because you could throw

1034
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,280
like a Jaimihawki's junior would be a good example here

1035
00:47:57,320 --> 00:47:59,880
to where it's someone who is so bad last year

1036
00:48:00,079 --> 00:48:02,599
he showed promise as a rookie. Do you how much

1037
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,920
credence do you give that massive bump right now? I

1038
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:09,760
always struggle with the Ryan Rollins types to where they're

1039
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,280
working off this lower base line. They just don't have

1040
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:13,840
a ton of evidence that they were a good player

1041
00:48:14,159 --> 00:48:17,360
and then they just sort of skyrocket. But this is

1042
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:20,719
this is insanity. You said he's the second best player

1043
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,760
on the Bucks that have Miles Turner. You're not wrong.

1044
00:48:25,159 --> 00:48:28,159
So I think he absolutely belongs here right now.

1045
00:48:28,159 --> 00:48:28,559
Speaker 1: For sure.

1046
00:48:29,079 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 3: I think his case feels like the purest to me

1047
00:48:32,039 --> 00:48:34,280
because there's it's not like you don't need like a

1048
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:38,360
redemptive story arc or anything like to qualify for Most Improved,

1049
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,719
but like it is really like again I can't get

1050
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,039
over because he was a Warriors draft pick and so

1051
00:48:44,119 --> 00:48:46,079
like I remember the book on him and I remember

1052
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,440
seeing him in his early days as like I don't know, man,

1053
00:48:48,519 --> 00:48:51,360
like not sure, I'm not sure what this is, like

1054
00:48:51,599 --> 00:48:55,519
what's the selling point here? And then like has the

1055
00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:58,280
shoplifting thing. I don't know if you remember that with Washington,

1056
00:48:58,320 --> 00:48:59,760
I think where that was part of the reason, like

1057
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:03,280
he just washed out there that I don't not remember. Yeah,

1058
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,119
And it was always just always what's with this guy?

1059
00:49:05,159 --> 00:49:08,599
Like why is an NBA player getting arrested for shoplifting?

1060
00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:11,559
That's like, look, I mean you don't get points for

1061
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:14,320
like maybe like making stupid decisions that hurts your career

1062
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:16,840
and then becoming good. But like just on the court,

1063
00:49:17,599 --> 00:49:20,519
this wasn't so like coming into this season, he was

1064
00:49:20,599 --> 00:49:23,159
kind of like a hipster pick. And I raised my

1065
00:49:23,199 --> 00:49:27,039
hand because like, I think he's gonna really be able

1066
00:49:27,079 --> 00:49:29,639
to guard and the Bucks need point of attack defenders

1067
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:32,559
for this whole thing to work. I mean, offensively, who knows,

1068
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:34,480
and then he's just the three level scorer that you

1069
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,119
can run the offense there. It's just like I don't

1070
00:49:37,119 --> 00:49:39,079
know where maybe I was in there all along. Man.

1071
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:41,639
I mean he's and he plays like he belongs like

1072
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:44,239
so the the sort of like something out of nothing

1073
00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:48,400
quality of his candidacy is really appealing to me. I

1074
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:51,199
just I guess it depends on the circumstances. But like

1075
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,480
you also can't really argue that it's as meaningful as

1076
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:56,920
someone becoming an All NBA player, you know, which is

1077
00:49:56,960 --> 00:50:00,679
the odia case. So it's it's very much like apples oranges.

1078
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,880
But that's why I like this award because there's there's

1079
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,960
no no parameters. It's more fun to talk about.

1080
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:10,119
Speaker 1: Can you guess? I'll just read it to you.

1081
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:13,559
Speaker 2: The top five players and assists on drives this year

1082
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,039
Denny at one, Hamy hawk is Junior at two, Russell

1083
00:50:17,079 --> 00:50:21,360
Westbrook at three, Dyson Daniels at four, Ryan Rollins at five.

1084
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,360
Speaker 1: That's just that's a hell I would not have gotten.

1085
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,519
Speaker 2: Maybe I would have gotten Denny afia preseason, maybe, and

1086
00:50:28,639 --> 00:50:29,639
honestly probably not.

1087
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have predicted that more than the quarterway through.

1088
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 2: I never would have predicted this not very close did

1089
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:37,920
you consider to put on the ballot?

1090
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 3: So Austin Reeves was someone because I think you could

1091
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:45,559
cut and paste a lot of what we've discussed with

1092
00:50:45,599 --> 00:50:49,239
Ovdia and just apply it to him, right, Like, I mean,

1093
00:50:49,559 --> 00:50:54,199
he just has shown in prolonged stretches this year that

1094
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,840
he can be the best player on a really good offense,

1095
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:00,880
and I just I didn't think that was in there

1096
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,960
for him. I think you know, his his career trajectory

1097
00:51:04,039 --> 00:51:07,000
has been I mean angled steadily upward. Like just look

1098
00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:08,800
at points per game, it's going up every year, Like

1099
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,320
that's one way to do it. But like the things

1100
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:14,880
that he's asked to do have increased year over year,

1101
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:17,599
and he's just getting better as he's been tasked with

1102
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:21,039
more important stuff and higher usage and surrounded by like

1103
00:51:21,159 --> 00:51:23,239
less help in a lot of cases earlier this year.

1104
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:28,559
So he was a hard hard omission, especially if it's like,

1105
00:51:28,599 --> 00:51:31,239
are you comparing him to Ryan Rolins, like who actually

1106
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:35,239
has made the I don't know, bigger strides after that.

1107
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,280
It's kind of like, I don't know in some order

1108
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:42,880
i'd throw just jump in whenever I would throw Hawkes in.

1109
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,639
There a lot of that seems pretty system dependent. But

1110
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:47,360
like you said, like he was pretty easy to leave

1111
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:51,079
for dead after last year the kil Alexander Walker and

1112
00:51:51,159 --> 00:51:54,519
Jalen Johnson. I think could be the third year he's

1113
00:51:54,519 --> 00:51:57,679
being mentioned in this discussion Reed Shepherd, like, I don't

1114
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:03,719
know like that nobody, Sorry, I will consider him. You

1115
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:04,679
don't have to do.

1116
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 2: You know who has an interesting case and we're actually

1117
00:52:06,519 --> 00:52:08,280
I will be forcing us to talk about him in

1118
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,599
the next second con Gillespie.

1119
00:52:11,079 --> 00:52:14,639
Speaker 3: Yeah, another like just didn't really have a career.

1120
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, right too, Yeah, two prior this is his third season.

1121
00:52:18,519 --> 00:52:20,480
His first one was with the Nuggets. They man, he'd

1122
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,639
be what he's doing in Phoenix right now. That was

1123
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:24,199
on the Nuggets kind of and say, but yeah, there's

1124
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,480
and there's some of those cases. But like you go,

1125
00:52:26,599 --> 00:52:29,119
Josh might not in Boston if you wanted to go

1126
00:52:29,199 --> 00:52:31,199
the kind of out of nowhere from left field types.

1127
00:52:31,239 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: Guys, this I'd be curious to know.

1128
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 2: There doesn't feel like a polarized doesn't every year it

1129
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:41,119
seems as if there's this polarizing selection or somebody that

1130
00:52:41,159 --> 00:52:45,039
creates division. The MIP ballot so far, at least, does

1131
00:52:45,079 --> 00:52:47,840
not seem to be following that same calculus.

1132
00:52:48,119 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 3: I wonder if Giddy would be that guy if he had,

1133
00:52:51,159 --> 00:52:53,360
like I think, because a lot of people would say, like,

1134
00:52:53,559 --> 00:52:55,360
I don't know. The bottom line is still the same

1135
00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,519
for his team. The triple double stuff is cool, but

1136
00:52:58,559 --> 00:53:01,039
he's not really different other than like he's continuing to

1137
00:53:01,039 --> 00:53:05,960
show he can shoot if he's open. Yeah, I feel like,

1138
00:53:06,159 --> 00:53:08,159
what do you what are your thoughts on Keyante George

1139
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,480
h third year guy?

1140
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 1: I mean, is he efficient enough?

1141
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 3: No, that's the thing, Like so he to me because

1142
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:20,519
just look at the counting numbers right up seventeen a

1143
00:53:20,559 --> 00:53:23,440
game last year up to twenty two, just under seven

1144
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,199
assists after five and a half last year, way bigger role.

1145
00:53:28,719 --> 00:53:30,760
He's making over forty percent of his shots from the

1146
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,400
field overall, which is new thirty nine percent his first

1147
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:33,880
two years.

1148
00:53:34,760 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 2: He on Tuesday's credit and getting over of the he.

1149
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,079
Speaker 3: Seems, yeah, and if you've done this two weeks ago,

1150
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:44,239
you wouldn't We wouldn't be like dismissive, or I wouldn't

1151
00:53:44,239 --> 00:53:46,840
be quite a dismissive, But like he seems like someone

1152
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,800
that is the wrong kind of most improved candidate in

1153
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:51,599
a lot of ways. Right, Like points per game is

1154
00:53:51,679 --> 00:53:55,920
up he's just playing more. Uh, the game's not super different.

1155
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:57,840
A lot of people that have been close to the

1156
00:53:57,880 --> 00:53:59,639
Jazz have talked about how like he just kind of

1157
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:03,159
seems like a more mature, like less chucky, kind of

1158
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:07,360
like real NBA player, But like so he's down ballot

1159
00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:09,559
for me. But I just that's the kind of candidate

1160
00:54:09,559 --> 00:54:10,920
that I'm like, I don't know, is he like he

1161
00:54:11,039 --> 00:54:15,719
just is? It's more, isn't better? Necessarily trying to think

1162
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,920
who else we should discuss. I mean, Tyre's Maxie can't

1163
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:24,119
win it, but like Tyr's MAXI is way better. I

1164
00:54:24,159 --> 00:54:28,039
love the two time MP idea. That that's fun.

1165
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:30,920
Speaker 2: We've never there's never been a two time m I

1166
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:33,199
P right, especially two time MVP, which.

1167
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 3: Is as I said it. I was like, I think

1168
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:37,480
there has been, but I I don't know. I can

1169
00:54:37,559 --> 00:54:39,000
I can look it up. As as we move on.

1170
00:54:39,079 --> 00:54:41,760
Last name, since we mentioned him already, Zach Edy, if

1171
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:43,920
this is at all real, Zach Edy, and it's a

1172
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:45,320
second year player, so I know you're out.

1173
00:54:45,559 --> 00:54:47,519
Speaker 1: You love your year two guys, huhh.

1174
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 3: I mean when you become the best defender in the

1175
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,719
NBA overnight, that's that's pretty good.

1176
00:54:52,079 --> 00:54:53,199
Speaker 1: Down ballot stuff.

1177
00:54:53,239 --> 00:54:57,480
Speaker 2: Anthony Black would be a good yeah in Orlando starting

1178
00:54:57,559 --> 00:55:00,719
out right, so I can't win six man. Apparently he

1179
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,000
was on my long list of that. Speaking of which, grant,

1180
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,360
we are on to sixth Man of the year. I'll

1181
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,480
go through mine first. This time, I have Reaepherd at one.

1182
00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:11,599
This is just I feel like my entire life has

1183
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:12,960
been building towards this moment.

1184
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,000
Speaker 3: Victory, lab sweet victory.

1185
00:55:18,239 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 1: I've congo Espiat two.

1186
00:55:20,559 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 2: I assume that he'll go like he won't end up

1187
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,199
starting in enough games, but whatever. Then Aj Mitchell at three,

1188
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,719
who I was convinced going into this blindly that I

1189
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:28,400
was gonna pick.

1190
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:30,599
Speaker 1: I'm making the Reed Shepherd case.

1191
00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:33,800
Speaker 2: The Rockets have a one to twenty three point eight

1192
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:35,760
offensive rating with him on the court, a one to

1193
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:38,800
twenty three point four offensive rating when he plays without Shangoon,

1194
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,119
a one twenty four point two offensive rating when he

1195
00:55:41,159 --> 00:55:44,079
plays without Durant, and a one hundred and thirty point

1196
00:55:44,159 --> 00:55:47,079
six offensive rating when he plays without Kevin Durant and

1197
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:48,719
Alprin Shangoun.

1198
00:55:49,079 --> 00:55:51,039
Speaker 1: He's shooting forty one percent on.

1199
00:55:51,039 --> 00:55:54,880
Speaker 2: Self created threes, forty six percent on spot up threes.

1200
00:55:54,920 --> 00:55:56,199
Speaker 1: He's in the eighty ninth.

1201
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:59,960
Speaker 2: Percentile, mister Grant hughes of self created shot making efficions.

1202
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 1: You could probably hope that the passing would be a

1203
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,840
little bit better than it is.

1204
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,639
Speaker 2: I would argue that defensive activity is a lot better

1205
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:12,280
than people were expecting. The Reed Shepherd emergence, affirmation, breakout,

1206
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:14,800
whatever you want to call it. We're not waiting for it, folks.

1207
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,800
It is actively happening, and it's a game changer for

1208
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,880
the Rockets to have the like we might. I wonder

1209
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,679
if we're gonna have this discussion at some point be oh,

1210
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,320
is he still eligible? Like did they just decide that

1211
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,199
he needs to start in every single game? This is

1212
00:56:29,679 --> 00:56:32,239
if you wanted to argue why the Rockets don't need

1213
00:56:32,320 --> 00:56:34,920
to do anything at the trade deadline. It begins and

1214
00:56:35,119 --> 00:56:37,639
ends with what Reed Shepherd is doing. To me, He's

1215
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:39,880
not the most important player, but he is the mother

1216
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:41,079
of all swing factors.

1217
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 3: He is who we thought he was after like some

1218
00:56:45,519 --> 00:56:50,960
real rough moment, real moments like months last year and

1219
00:56:51,039 --> 00:56:53,039
even early this year. I remember talking about like, hey,

1220
00:56:53,039 --> 00:56:55,280
he's getting targeted on defense. If this is gonna be

1221
00:56:55,320 --> 00:56:56,760
how it is, he's never gonna make it.

1222
00:56:57,079 --> 00:56:59,239
Speaker 2: Hey, do you remember what did we both say though,

1223
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,480
because it was their first game was against the thunder

1224
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:05,079
and we can't this looked terrible, but let's pump the

1225
00:57:05,079 --> 00:57:08,880
brakes because the Oklahoma City's defense is beyond predatory.

1226
00:57:08,679 --> 00:57:12,159
Speaker 3: Right right? Uh? Yeah, he's shooting almost forty five percent

1227
00:57:12,199 --> 00:57:15,199
from three and is like a pest on defense, if

1228
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:18,840
not a great defender, like, and it's playing like I

1229
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,199
don't know, last year, I felt like he was turning

1230
00:57:21,239 --> 00:57:24,159
down shots or just like wasn't letting him rip, you know,

1231
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,920
because the rookie thing or just lack of con whatever.

1232
00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:30,280
Like he's now, it's just like I want him to.

1233
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,840
I still want him to shoot more, just because he's

1234
00:57:32,880 --> 00:57:34,639
in that category of like if he can get the

1235
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,360
get it off, especially like a catch and shoot, like

1236
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:41,360
I believe that he will make it. Uh So I think, yeah,

1237
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:43,960
he's I'm glad we're here, Dan, I'm maybe not as

1238
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,000
glad as you, but I'm glad we're here. I'm glad

1239
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:47,519
that he's in this conversation.

1240
00:57:48,519 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: Uh.

1241
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:55,039
Speaker 2: Cong Gilespie's just been insane this season. One offensive rating,

1242
00:57:55,519 --> 00:57:57,400
Uh and they're a plus six per one hundred when

1243
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,719
he's playing without Devin Booker on catch and shoot threes,

1244
00:58:02,199 --> 00:58:04,719
not creating a ton of them for himself. This is

1245
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:08,800
just someone I can't We said this last year, how

1246
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:11,119
was he just sort of this unknown com and then

1247
00:58:11,159 --> 00:58:15,639
floating around still this past offseason, he is all activity

1248
00:58:15,840 --> 00:58:17,719
on both ends of the floor. And if you need

1249
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,800
just sort of this offensive steward, who's gonna come in

1250
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:23,280
and maybe he's not, you don't want your your offensive

1251
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:26,280
ceiling might be Okay, it's capped here, but we also

1252
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:27,719
know that he's not going to come in and turn

1253
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:30,559
the ball over on eighteen percent of possessions where he's

1254
00:58:30,559 --> 00:58:33,880
able to dribble out in and out of traffic. That's

1255
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,280
just that's a really good find for a second year

1256
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:37,320
in a row from Phoenix.

1257
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean the real mystery here is how was

1258
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,400
he at no point on the Knicks because he's a

1259
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,519
villanova guy and so like just they forgot it. They

1260
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:49,719
he wasn't cool with him.

1261
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:52,280
Speaker 2: Well, I think we honestly know that Jalen Brunson probably

1262
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:54,280
felt threatened by this level of steel.

1263
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:57,239
Speaker 3: That's right, That's why he got rid of Dante.

1264
00:58:57,760 --> 00:58:58,119
Speaker 1: Uh No.

1265
00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,599
Speaker 3: I think that's a great pick. I am glad that

1266
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:03,960
I only have one of the three players you have

1267
00:59:04,039 --> 00:59:04,400
on your.

1268
00:59:04,599 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 2: Actually shocked at the overlap. I would have guessed that

1269
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,840
the overlap we had was aj Mitchell.

1270
00:59:09,599 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean he's he's obviously like among the

1271
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:19,960
tough omissions. But I partly because I don't think it's

1272
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:23,119
gonna last. I put I'm a Hawk as first on

1273
00:59:23,159 --> 00:59:25,760
my six man bolt, like you know you could already.

1274
00:59:26,800 --> 00:59:28,320
I can feel it happening and like some of the

1275
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:30,800
under it, well, I'll get to it, but like sixteen

1276
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,119
and five and just like and part of this again,

1277
00:59:33,559 --> 00:59:35,679
I can't get more than no sentence into it without

1278
00:59:35,679 --> 00:59:37,719
being like, but I think it's a little bit. The

1279
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:41,039
system is kind of perfect for him. Doesn't matter. This

1280
00:59:41,079 --> 00:59:43,159
isn't most improved. We're not, you know, We're just talking

1281
00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:47,599
about impact as a as a bench player. His his

1282
00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:52,239
game is built ideally for how the heat play, which

1283
00:59:52,280 --> 00:59:56,079
is just he'll just run into his defender and spin

1284
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:58,599
or not and just beat him under the basket and

1285
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,840
try and make it two point like that's what he's great.

1286
01:00:01,840 --> 01:00:04,480
And he can pass out of those situations too, so

1287
01:00:05,119 --> 01:00:06,639
and him with a head of steam, which is what

1288
01:00:06,760 --> 01:00:10,599
Miami just wants to create on every possession, great like

1289
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:13,440
it works. The Heat's offense is worse when he's on

1290
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,440
the floor. Their net ratings better, but that's mostly defensive

1291
01:00:16,480 --> 01:00:18,440
and because the offensive rebound the shit out of the

1292
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:21,000
ball when he's out there. Part of that is him.

1293
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,679
He just has been you know, only Bam has a

1294
01:00:24,679 --> 01:00:27,480
better on off split on Miami. So it's like there's

1295
01:00:27,519 --> 01:00:32,199
some you know, not even advanced, but some underlying data

1296
01:00:32,239 --> 01:00:36,000
that's favorable for him. He's just he's just been really good.

1297
01:00:36,119 --> 01:00:37,679
I don't know if it'll continue, so I'm giving it

1298
01:00:37,679 --> 01:00:38,159
to him now.

1299
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:42,199
Speaker 2: Isaiah Stewart, I'm sorry, go ahead, because you mentioned he's

1300
01:00:42,199 --> 01:00:44,280
perfect for what the Heat are doing. I've tried to

1301
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:46,559
think because I've been thinking a lot obviously about trades

1302
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:47,719
because of the season.

1303
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: That tis the season. I don't know, I don't look at.

1304
01:00:51,239 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 2: Another team and be like, wow, he'd be an excellent

1305
01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:54,719
fit right there.

1306
01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 3: Maybe yeah, that's the one, or you could say even

1307
01:00:58,559 --> 01:01:01,960
I mean, Phoenix is more about like defensive pace and hassle.

1308
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:05,800
It's as opposed to spacing it out and running on offense.

1309
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:07,880
But like you just have to find the up tempo

1310
01:01:07,920 --> 01:01:09,920
team that doesn't play a lot of half court possessions

1311
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:11,840
and when they do play half court possessions. It can't

1312
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,719
be conventional screen and role in space around the two

1313
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,039
man action. That's just not going to be what he's

1314
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:21,679
what he's useful for. Stuart Isaiah Stewart's second. For me,

1315
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:24,760
I think he is the best interior defender on the Pistons.

1316
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:28,039
Uh he and the fact that he's taking and making

1317
01:01:28,079 --> 01:01:32,559
threes again, he's like he's I feel like he does

1318
01:01:32,639 --> 01:01:34,559
get a fair amount of credit. I don't know, you

1319
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:37,519
can tell me what you think, but but like, even

1320
01:01:37,599 --> 01:01:40,840
though you know he's a reserve and everyone looks at

1321
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,000
Duran and Cunningham first, and even then Asar Thompson and

1322
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:47,280
Jade and Ivy and Tobias Harris and Harris Lver, I

1323
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:50,239
think he doesn't get enough of the of the share

1324
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:52,840
of his share of credit for how good Detroit has

1325
01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:55,199
been is not high enough because I do think there's

1326
01:01:55,199 --> 01:01:58,079
a tone setting element where like the Pistons play like

1327
01:01:58,159 --> 01:02:01,880
Isaiah Stewart plays more so then they play like anybody else.

1328
01:02:02,039 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 1: Sort of like how you play like Josh Hart plays.

1329
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,039
It sometimes feels like a lot of.

1330
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:10,239
Speaker 3: The time, right. And then Shepherd three, for all the

1331
01:02:10,239 --> 01:02:13,800
reasons you said, he's sort of was an undeniable top

1332
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:14,360
three for me.

1333
01:02:15,239 --> 01:02:18,880
Speaker 2: My down ballot list was pretty long for this what

1334
01:02:18,920 --> 01:02:20,519
I think I said before we were recorded that it

1335
01:02:20,599 --> 01:02:21,599
ended up being the longest.

1336
01:02:21,639 --> 01:02:23,280
Speaker 1: I also had Josh Hart.

1337
01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 2: I think he'll end up starting too many games because

1338
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,199
the Knicks are back to the old starting lineup. Camp

1339
01:02:28,239 --> 01:02:31,679
Spencer been great in Memphis. I had had my hawkys

1340
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,880
Keldon Johnson quietly good for the Spurs this year. Quentin

1341
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:38,320
Grimes nas reed Anthony Black I would as soon move.

1342
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:42,440
I had Isaiah Stewart two, Jeremy Jeremy Grant starting again

1343
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,719
in Portland at the moment, so we'd see, we'll see

1344
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:47,119
if he stays there. And then my out of this

1345
01:02:47,159 --> 01:02:48,599
would be the out of left field. And I mentioned

1346
01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:51,480
him for mi IP but Josh might not might receive

1347
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:53,159
some love in Boston for the word been coming in

1348
01:02:53,199 --> 01:02:54,800
and hitting threes and a part of like just their

1349
01:02:55,159 --> 01:02:57,360
big identity for what everything else he does in the

1350
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:58,440
court fills those gaps.

1351
01:02:59,199 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, this is the six men in the year.

1352
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:03,519
Speaker 2: Ballot was for me was more interesting to put together

1353
01:03:03,559 --> 01:03:04,960
than the most improved player ballot.

1354
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,599
Speaker 3: Oh no, I well, it's interesting. There's a fair amount

1355
01:03:07,639 --> 01:03:11,320
of overlap too, just just because I had him on

1356
01:03:11,360 --> 01:03:14,239
the ballot before he had started too many games on

1357
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:17,400
Yaka kong Wu. I think he was a pretty trendy

1358
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,000
preseason pick two, but there was always the question hanging over, like, well,

1359
01:03:21,719 --> 01:03:23,760
is porzingis gonna miss so many games at a kong

1360
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:25,679
Wu just is the starter all the time, and so

1361
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:27,440
far that's that's been a factor.

1362
01:03:27,719 --> 01:03:29,679
Speaker 1: Is will Richard going to start in too many games?

1363
01:03:30,119 --> 01:03:32,360
Speaker 3: I mean, why isn't Pat Spencer on our six man?

1364
01:03:32,440 --> 01:03:34,360
And most well, he's a starter now Pat's you got

1365
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:38,039
the wrong Spencer. I think it most improved. Pat Spencer's

1366
01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:39,760
running away with it. I forgot to mention him for.

1367
01:03:39,719 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: That coach of the year. Who did you have on

1368
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:45,039
your ballotser?

1369
01:03:45,559 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 3: I had Eric Spulser first. I just think, you know one,

1370
01:03:51,000 --> 01:03:52,920
give him the Lifetime Achievement Coach of the Year if

1371
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:56,360
you want. He's long overdue for that hasn't won it obviously.

1372
01:03:57,639 --> 01:04:01,400
I just I think the thing I've enjoyed most about

1373
01:04:01,400 --> 01:04:04,599
this season is just the whole idea of there's a

1374
01:04:04,599 --> 01:04:06,679
different way to play offense, the heater down to I

1375
01:04:06,679 --> 01:04:09,559
think it just like twelve in offensive efficiency. Now it's

1376
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,320
so like the whole don't screen anymore and drive and

1377
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:16,719
time your cuts and rotate the other guy. I don't

1378
01:04:16,760 --> 01:04:18,880
know how effective that'll be for the rest of the.

1379
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,079
Speaker 2: Years, peppering in more ball screens, Yeah, especially in crunch time.

1380
01:04:23,400 --> 01:04:25,480
Speaker 3: All I know is I love it. I love it.

1381
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:29,039
It's like he had the like, if anything, Eric Spolstra

1382
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:32,199
is a coward because he has so much clout, he

1383
01:04:32,199 --> 01:04:34,880
he could have gotten the green light to be like,

1384
01:04:35,199 --> 01:04:39,039
you know, we're gonna try this year five seven and

1385
01:04:39,119 --> 01:04:42,000
under only that we can't have any players over five.

1386
01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:44,480
Like what happens? I don't know, like everyone has to

1387
01:04:44,559 --> 01:04:47,559
Like there's just like try something even weirder. You have

1388
01:04:47,639 --> 01:04:50,239
to play only left only left handed layups. That that's

1389
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,320
all that's allowed. Just he could have made up like

1390
01:04:52,360 --> 01:04:54,840
a million different things and everyone would have allowed it

1391
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:56,840
because it's Eric s Bolstra and like he's kind of

1392
01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,320
unimpeachable as a coach. So yeah, he's just like when

1393
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:03,599
you revamp an offense in a way that like got

1394
01:05:03,599 --> 01:05:07,119
a coach fired the year before, like it, and it

1395
01:05:07,199 --> 01:05:10,079
basically with that when you go get the guy that

1396
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:13,760
got the head coach, like and you you I and

1397
01:05:13,840 --> 01:05:15,599
I think too. I don't know if this works for

1398
01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:17,119
every team, but I think for the Heat it makes

1399
01:05:17,119 --> 01:05:18,960
a lot of sense because of the personnel that they have,

1400
01:05:19,079 --> 01:05:22,400
So to have that vision, I think is we just

1401
01:05:22,440 --> 01:05:24,840
have to credit that because like if anyone could have

1402
01:05:25,000 --> 01:05:29,119
just retained the status quo jokes aside, it just could have.

1403
01:05:29,159 --> 01:05:31,280
It would could have would have should have been Spolstra

1404
01:05:31,480 --> 01:05:34,159
because like, we're the Heat, we defend, we're gonna play

1405
01:05:34,159 --> 01:05:37,159
slow offensively, we're gonna grind you into dust. And he

1406
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:41,519
just like completely greenlit the changing the way they play.

1407
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:44,719
So there's that, uh dagnall, if you're on pace to

1408
01:05:44,719 --> 01:05:46,880
win more games than any team's ever won, you're gonna

1409
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:50,480
get a Coach of the Year nod. And then JB. Bickerstaff,

1410
01:05:50,800 --> 01:05:53,360
I think I thought the Pistons would maybe stay the

1411
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:55,920
same or take a step back. The way he's got

1412
01:05:55,920 --> 01:05:58,719
them defending, the way he's figured out how to make

1413
01:05:58,719 --> 01:06:01,039
an offense with a lot of imper pieces like work

1414
01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:04,599
well enough. I think deserves some credit. So those are

1415
01:06:04,639 --> 01:06:07,840
those were a pretty There's one guy you have him

1416
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,440
that that other than those three, there's the ballot was

1417
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:14,559
pretty Those three made the ballot pretty easy. There's a

1418
01:06:14,599 --> 01:06:16,639
fourth guy that I'm glad you have because that was

1419
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:17,840
the tough emission.

1420
01:06:18,079 --> 01:06:20,599
Speaker 2: The and the other thing I'll just add for dagnolt

1421
01:06:20,599 --> 01:06:22,280
too is I don't know that his job is as

1422
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,679
easy as everyone just assumes, because you're juggling a lot

1423
01:06:25,679 --> 01:06:29,159
of really good players who probably want to play more,

1424
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:31,599
and so when you're managing the minutes and yeah, injuries

1425
01:06:31,639 --> 01:06:33,159
sometimes take care of it, but when you have to

1426
01:06:33,199 --> 01:06:36,960
manage expectations of veterans younger guys, he does a really

1427
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:39,480
good job of that. And the thunder or just yeah,

1428
01:06:40,199 --> 01:06:42,239
so much critical to the ployees, but they're like always on.

1429
01:06:42,719 --> 01:06:45,760
It just doesn't feel like they don't take anything they're

1430
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:49,159
they act like idiots, like during the postgame interviews in

1431
01:06:49,199 --> 01:06:51,079
a good way. I mean there's a compliment, but you

1432
01:06:51,159 --> 01:06:54,519
never feel like they're not taking the competition seriously or

1433
01:06:54,559 --> 01:06:57,760
that they're showing up unprepared. I think he deserves a

1434
01:06:57,760 --> 01:06:59,719
ton of credit fat And also you mentioned it with

1435
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:02,000
the win, but they are right now. The distance between

1436
01:07:02,000 --> 01:07:05,719
net rating between them and second place is basically as

1437
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:09,159
Detroit Pistons's net rating, So they are Detroit Piston's better team,

1438
01:07:09,199 --> 01:07:11,039
better than the second and best team in the league,

1439
01:07:11,039 --> 01:07:13,599
which is the Houston Rockets. By net rating, but I

1440
01:07:13,639 --> 01:07:16,280
have Joe Mizula and there might be Celtic chances who

1441
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:18,360
are mad that, like they're even in this discussion. You're

1442
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,199
just contending all of a sudden for top two, top

1443
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:25,559
one spot in the Eastern Conference. Your offense that does

1444
01:07:25,599 --> 01:07:28,920
not have Jason Tatum that traded away Christaps porzingis traded

1445
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:32,039
away Drew Holliday. You could argue maybe that helped the offense,

1446
01:07:32,239 --> 01:07:35,760
but Boston is fifth in offensive efficiency and they just

1447
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:37,440
they don't get to the foul line. They don't have

1448
01:07:37,480 --> 01:07:40,480
guys that are doing that. The performance they've gotten out

1449
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:42,519
of Jalen Brown this year has been great. He'll probably

1450
01:07:42,519 --> 01:07:45,920
receive some down ballot MVP consederation when all said and done,

1451
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:48,960
and he's piecemealed together. A lot of the rotation. Derek

1452
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,400
White has not been the best version of Derek White

1453
01:07:51,519 --> 01:07:53,519
for most of this season. Been playing a little bit

1454
01:07:53,519 --> 01:07:57,480
better recently. Sam Houser kind of having a whatever year

1455
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,239
you're getting by with a lot of prich Simon's hasn't

1456
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:02,840
been great this year and is playing a ton of bents,

1457
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:05,039
name me as Kaita Josh might not. We've mentioned in

1458
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:07,199
a couple times Jordan Walls, Luca Gars are coming and

1459
01:08:07,199 --> 01:08:10,440
giving you minutes. Hugo Gonzales is kind of like low key,

1460
01:08:10,559 --> 01:08:12,559
just a monster to like, just one of those guys

1461
01:08:12,599 --> 01:08:15,760
you don't want to play against. He's Joe Mazul is

1462
01:08:15,760 --> 01:08:18,359
a cycle path, and if you want results, might be

1463
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:19,840
the best kind of cycle path.

1464
01:08:20,239 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: Because the Celtics are The Celtics are.

1465
01:08:22,680 --> 01:08:25,600
Speaker 2: Good and are gonna be asking some weird questions as

1466
01:08:25,600 --> 01:08:27,560
they get to the trade deadline when they're looking at

1467
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,720
the tax bill. Their draft pick status is Jason Tatum

1468
01:08:30,720 --> 01:08:34,119
gonna come back? I have to imagine, in so far

1469
01:08:34,199 --> 01:08:37,920
as a team can adopt a coach's identity, the Celtics

1470
01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,640
have done it, perhaps this season more so than any other.

1471
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 3: Does that mean that the whole Celtics roster cannot define

1472
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:47,760
the word fun or or give an example of something

1473
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:48,720
they do for fun?

1474
01:08:49,199 --> 01:08:52,359
Speaker 2: Right, and they're all gonna give outrageous quotes about just

1475
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:54,760
I was born into darkness or whatever he said?

1476
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,039
Speaker 3: Do they explain everything using war metaphors?

1477
01:09:01,119 --> 01:09:04,479
Speaker 2: Is that they watching the town three times a day?

1478
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:07,319
Speaker 3: Hey, here's I think that I'm glad you had Missouri.

1479
01:09:07,399 --> 01:09:09,319
Speaker 1: You've ever seen the town? I haven't seen the town.

1480
01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:10,279
Speaker 3: You haven't seen the town.

1481
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,239
Speaker 1: Come on, man, I think Joe Mazulla has seen it enough.

1482
01:09:13,279 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 3: For all, it is a good movie. You should watch it. Uh.

1483
01:09:19,119 --> 01:09:22,279
I think he deserves like some extra credit in addition

1484
01:09:22,319 --> 01:09:25,319
to everything you said for like, it's it's obviously really

1485
01:09:25,319 --> 01:09:28,239
hard to evaluate NBA coaches. We always say, like we

1486
01:09:28,279 --> 01:09:31,479
see a fraction of what they actually do and try

1487
01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:34,760
to judge their whole like level of quality on whatether

1488
01:09:34,840 --> 01:09:37,000
they do. How do they manage their timeouts? You know,

1489
01:09:37,079 --> 01:09:39,880
And it's like that's that's like the ten thousandth most

1490
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:41,840
important thing or what coaches.

1491
01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:43,920
Speaker 2: I hear throwing around is where you know their their

1492
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:46,680
game plan is just a little bit weird or wonky,

1493
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:48,800
and then no one needs to elaborate on what that

1494
01:09:48,840 --> 01:09:49,520
game plan.

1495
01:09:49,880 --> 01:09:52,319
Speaker 3: Or it's like, oh, we criticize rotations all the time.

1496
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:54,319
Why isn't he playing this lineup? Doesn't he know the

1497
01:09:54,359 --> 01:09:56,760
net rating? As if like the coaching staff is unaware

1498
01:09:57,000 --> 01:09:59,279
of the concept of like lineup data, Like come on,

1499
01:09:59,520 --> 01:10:03,159
but what I think? So he he gets credit for

1500
01:10:03,479 --> 01:10:08,560
Boston being shockingly successful relative to expectations, obviously, but doing

1501
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:10,640
it in a way that is like they are making

1502
01:10:10,760 --> 01:10:14,079
he they're making tactical choices like that, so like they're

1503
01:10:14,159 --> 01:10:16,800
extreme three point that only the Warriors shoot a higher

1504
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:19,560
share of their shots from three. The Celtics never get

1505
01:10:19,600 --> 01:10:22,279
to the foul line. Ever, they're dead lasting free throw

1506
01:10:22,359 --> 01:10:25,199
rate by like a billion they foul a ton that,

1507
01:10:25,399 --> 01:10:27,880
like they don't get to the rim. They they are

1508
01:10:27,960 --> 01:10:30,800
really like they're deeply flawed in a lot of ways

1509
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,960
that you would use to evaluate a team conventionally, but

1510
01:10:34,000 --> 01:10:36,359
they're like leaning into those and you wouldn't. You can

1511
01:10:36,399 --> 01:10:39,880
imagine it would be easier to for for like a

1512
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:42,039
one size fits all, like we're gonna shoot this many threes,

1513
01:10:42,079 --> 01:10:43,920
We're going to focus on getting to the rim. We're

1514
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:46,119
going to try to draw. Like I think he gets

1515
01:10:46,199 --> 01:10:51,800
credit for Boston having these wild ass like outlier stats

1516
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,960
like by design, you know, like they're they're doing the

1517
01:10:55,000 --> 01:10:57,439
absolute most they can with the personnel they have, which

1518
01:10:57,520 --> 01:11:01,239
is another like credit to the coach. Sou winning in

1519
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,399
a weird way almost like counts double for your Coach

1520
01:11:04,399 --> 01:11:08,319
of the Year status, like just because Bustin can't be

1521
01:11:08,399 --> 01:11:11,000
this good if they play like everybody else does. I

1522
01:11:11,039 --> 01:11:13,520
think I think Missoula has has isolated, Like here's the

1523
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,319
weird stuff, the extreme stuff we gotta do, and they're

1524
01:11:16,319 --> 01:11:17,960
doing it and it works anyway.

1525
01:11:18,079 --> 01:11:22,159
Speaker 2: So the tougher I did have Spoilstraw in my down ballot,

1526
01:11:22,159 --> 01:11:23,920
but a tougher cut for me from all this, the

1527
01:11:23,960 --> 01:11:26,920
two where Jordan not just Phoenix, plays in a different way,

1528
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:28,640
and maybe a lot of it was just refreshing the

1529
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,640
vibes there. But they're competing even when Devin Booker is

1530
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,399
just not I mean, they got slammed by the thunder

1531
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:34,119
like before.

1532
01:11:34,159 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 3: We again not a good evaluative tool.

1533
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,439
Speaker 2: The other name, and I feel like he'll probably lose

1534
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:40,439
traction as.

1535
01:11:40,319 --> 01:11:41,279
Speaker 1: The team gets healthier.

1536
01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:44,520
Speaker 2: The Spurs are ten and four without Victor Webbin Yama

1537
01:11:44,560 --> 01:11:47,760
in seventh in offense, and they haven't had Darren Fox

1538
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:52,399
miss time, Dylan Harper miss time, Steph Castle missed some time.

1539
01:11:52,479 --> 01:11:55,439
And also you're getting Harrison Barnes is just awesome now

1540
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:57,479
and Kelden Johnson is awesome, and so you have to

1541
01:11:57,479 --> 01:12:00,479
credit him with just the way they've even used Luke Hornett.

1542
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:02,760
You have to credit him with the way that he's

1543
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:05,520
just managed the roster and what the offense has turned into.

1544
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:07,640
And I think a big he probably deserves the most

1545
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,359
credit for you and I discussed some of the concerns.

1546
01:12:10,359 --> 01:12:12,840
We ultimately defaulted to we think it'll be fine. But

1547
01:12:12,920 --> 01:12:15,199
the dynamic with the guards who like to get downhill

1548
01:12:15,520 --> 01:12:18,199
the spurs are like they're not not heat, but in

1549
01:12:18,239 --> 01:12:20,159
the half court it's like driving kick Like these guys

1550
01:12:20,199 --> 01:12:22,000
are constantly getting downhill or passing out.

1551
01:12:22,520 --> 01:12:22,840
Speaker 1: Uh.

1552
01:12:23,119 --> 01:12:29,319
Speaker 2: Kudos to Mitchell Robinson, Mitch rob Mitchell Robinson, my god,

1553
01:12:30,159 --> 01:12:33,760
I'm sorry. Uh kudos to Mitch Johnson. Did I call

1554
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:36,279
him Mitch Robinson at the top of the segment too, I.

1555
01:12:36,279 --> 01:12:37,840
Speaker 3: Don't think so. I think you got it right there.

1556
01:12:38,560 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 2: But kudos to him for what they've been able to

1557
01:12:41,000 --> 01:12:43,560
do in San Antonio. Wall Victor Woman misses more than

1558
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:44,159
half the season.

1559
01:12:44,399 --> 01:12:48,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Mitch, Mitch Johnson is a ship compared

1560
01:12:48,680 --> 01:12:52,319
to to Mitchell Robinson. So that's the main thing. No,

1561
01:12:52,359 --> 01:12:54,000
I think I I didn't even think about him, and

1562
01:12:54,039 --> 01:12:56,840
I really should have. Uh. I think the other I

1563
01:12:56,920 --> 01:13:01,039
think Darko Ryakovic. I think Arayokovic ever got it. We

1564
01:13:01,039 --> 01:13:06,159
were just dropping the ball and coach Ryakovic, I don't know.

1565
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:07,720
The raptors are.

1566
01:13:07,720 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: Generally he was stronger two weeks ago.

1567
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 3: I think, yeah, that's the thing. But overall, I think

1568
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:16,399
they've they've outpaced my expectations. And again you can attribute

1569
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:20,039
like some of what has gone well to like their tactically,

1570
01:13:20,039 --> 01:13:22,399
like trying to play a certain ways, Like anytime, it's

1571
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:25,840
like a coaching style seems to be influential on the

1572
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:28,600
team's success. I think that that counts a little extra.

1573
01:13:29,199 --> 01:13:32,000
I don't know, it's just that that team was we

1574
01:13:32,079 --> 01:13:34,760
knew that team was gonna be good. Well, we're talking

1575
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,800
way down ballot. It's just like, yeah, he's he's not

1576
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:40,279
gonna win it. I don't think unless the the rockets

1577
01:13:40,319 --> 01:13:42,560
like somehow catch the thunder.

1578
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:45,520
Speaker 2: I was waiting to see if you're gonna say his name.

1579
01:13:45,840 --> 01:13:48,680
But if we're talking about stylistic shifts, Mike Brown deserves

1580
01:13:48,720 --> 01:13:49,359
to mention here.

1581
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:53,119
Speaker 3: Oh well, three times potential, three time Coach of the Year,

1582
01:13:53,119 --> 01:13:53,960
Mike Brown.

1583
01:13:54,359 --> 01:13:55,359
Speaker 1: No way he wins it.

1584
01:13:57,159 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 2: As we're recording this, New York is their second an offense,

1585
01:14:00,680 --> 01:14:02,920
but they have a borderline top ten defense, and that's

1586
01:14:02,960 --> 01:14:06,239
with Mitchell Robinson being one of the most unreliable players

1587
01:14:06,279 --> 01:14:09,800
in the NBA. It's honestly, their center rotation is filled

1588
01:14:09,840 --> 01:14:12,439
with either bad players or big man rotation. Bad players

1589
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:15,920
right now Gershon Robucelli or just wildly inconsistent players in

1590
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:19,159
Mitch Robinson and you just never Mitch Robinson, Mitchell Johnson

1591
01:14:19,560 --> 01:14:22,560
and Karl Anthony Towns. Are you ready to go on

1592
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,119
to Executive of the Year? Everyone's face yes, right, who

1593
01:14:26,159 --> 01:14:26,479
do you have?

1594
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:27,319
Speaker 1: Uh?

1595
01:14:27,359 --> 01:14:32,199
Speaker 3: So we have anci Salle first me and that trade alone,

1596
01:14:32,560 --> 01:14:36,239
they got Atlanta the number one? In my mind? Have

1597
01:14:36,319 --> 01:14:38,720
I have we talked about this? In my mind, it's

1598
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,720
already the number one overall pick that the Hawks have, like,

1599
01:14:42,119 --> 01:14:47,079
and I think that's because I want my just criticism

1600
01:14:47,359 --> 01:14:49,880
and everybody probably feels this way. It's some extent I

1601
01:14:49,920 --> 01:14:54,560
want my criticism of the Pelicans to be ultimately validated,

1602
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,199
like which is say validated in like the ultimate way,

1603
01:14:57,399 --> 01:14:59,520
which is you didn't just give up a pick that

1604
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:01,279
had a ants to be in the top four. You

1605
01:15:01,319 --> 01:15:03,560
gave up the number what turned into the number one

1606
01:15:03,600 --> 01:15:07,199
overall pick. That's that's so in my mind, that pick

1607
01:15:07,279 --> 01:15:09,760
that Atlanta has is number one overall. It's already given.

1608
01:15:09,920 --> 01:15:11,560
Speaker 2: Well, do you know what's funny is that people are

1609
01:15:11,600 --> 01:15:14,399
trying to backslide on the takes from that because of

1610
01:15:14,399 --> 01:15:17,039
how good Derek Queen is and I don't understand why

1611
01:15:17,199 --> 01:15:20,760
that's a whole the process from it. Yeah, that's I mean,

1612
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:22,840
it's not even a whole podcast. It's just he could

1613
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:26,720
end up being an MVP, and the machinations by which

1614
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:29,159
they acquired him were objectively stupid.

1615
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:33,399
Speaker 3: I think, totally agree, obviously totally agree. The counter to

1616
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:36,399
me is just like you could have had Derek Queen

1617
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:39,960
and this pick it just put top whatever protections on it.

1618
01:15:40,039 --> 01:15:44,000
You think you think Atlanta's walking away if it's top

1619
01:15:44,640 --> 01:15:46,279
five protected whatever.

1620
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,239
Speaker 2: Eight other teams walked away from the exact offer, which

1621
01:15:49,239 --> 01:15:52,079
I you know, and.

1622
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,720
Speaker 3: If and if Atlanta does you know what, there's several

1623
01:15:55,760 --> 01:15:59,239
other teams you could have. It's just, yeah, the process,

1624
01:15:59,600 --> 01:16:02,079
the what are we really talking about this?

1625
01:16:02,199 --> 01:16:03,039
Speaker 1: Like, I'm not going.

1626
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:05,479
Speaker 3: To argue with someone that thinks that Derek Queen being

1627
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,119
a pretty good rookie like changes any of the other

1628
01:16:08,640 --> 01:16:09,359
he to separated.

1629
01:16:09,399 --> 01:16:12,520
Speaker 2: The method by which they got him was terrible, and

1630
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:15,359
he's he also his value should not be tied to

1631
01:16:15,399 --> 01:16:17,680
that trade, like he could be a good player and

1632
01:16:17,720 --> 01:16:19,119
that trade still just be awful.

1633
01:16:19,600 --> 01:16:23,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, my number two, we both agreed there. I guess

1634
01:16:23,399 --> 01:16:25,680
we could we should talk about Niki. Alexander Walker has

1635
01:16:25,720 --> 01:16:27,840
been one of the best like players to change teams

1636
01:16:27,880 --> 01:16:31,960
over the summer. That matters. Porzingis has been predictably unavailable,

1637
01:16:32,039 --> 01:16:40,399
but good enough. It's it's that trade, really honestly, Like

1638
01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,159
I had a hard time picking out Like it's much

1639
01:16:44,199 --> 01:16:47,119
easier to point to executives that had bad off seasons

1640
01:16:47,239 --> 01:16:49,479
or that those results have been really bad than good

1641
01:16:49,479 --> 01:16:51,199
ones so far. I don't know how you felt about that.

1642
01:16:51,600 --> 01:16:53,640
Speaker 2: I honestly I didn't feel strongly one way or the

1643
01:16:53,680 --> 01:16:55,800
other because of what the off season has turned where

1644
01:16:55,800 --> 01:16:57,960
free agency just doesn't matter anymore, and I think that

1645
01:16:57,960 --> 01:17:00,279
makes it harder. But I had Sam Presty number two

1646
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:04,439
just because the J will and AJ Mitchell contracts they're

1647
01:17:04,520 --> 01:17:07,359
just their highway robbery and the AJ Mitchell contract looks

1648
01:17:07,399 --> 01:17:09,680
like actually criminal at this point.

1649
01:17:10,840 --> 01:17:12,039
Speaker 1: The contracts for J.

1650
01:17:12,239 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 2: Dubb like kind of you allowed that they were the escalator.

1651
01:17:15,880 --> 01:17:18,279
Language wasn't quite Oh, you make all NBA third team,

1652
01:17:18,319 --> 01:17:20,199
you automatically get the thirty percent max. But like you

1653
01:17:20,279 --> 01:17:22,039
had all these qualifiers in there and you had a

1654
01:17:22,119 --> 01:17:22,840
know behind.

1655
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: The scenes, like these aren't gonna hit.

1656
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,239
Speaker 2: It's just gonna be the straight twenty five percent max

1657
01:17:26,359 --> 01:17:30,560
no escalators for the chet Holmgren contract. I so it's

1658
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:33,079
but that might speak to it doesn't feel like anyone

1659
01:17:33,119 --> 01:17:35,119
had this great body of work over the offseason. I

1660
01:17:35,119 --> 01:17:37,560
also had Brian Gregory of the Suns. It came down

1661
01:17:37,600 --> 01:17:39,880
to him. I thought about pat Riley, I thought about

1662
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:42,159
Raphael Stone, but the Kevin Durant trade to me was

1663
01:17:42,239 --> 01:17:44,880
just sort of no, you do that, and it's worthing

1664
01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:47,960
perfectly five for that. You could also question, all right, well,

1665
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:49,800
Clint Cappella, Dore and Phiney.

1666
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:52,439
Speaker 1: Smith, now what were we like what was going on here?

1667
01:17:53,159 --> 01:17:54,199
But belongs to the discussion.

1668
01:17:54,239 --> 01:17:57,960
Speaker 2: But Brian Gregory just the vibes have been cleared in Phoenix,

1669
01:17:57,960 --> 01:18:00,279
and he deserves, I guess some credit for like being

1670
01:18:00,319 --> 01:18:01,560
the steward.

1671
01:18:01,159 --> 01:18:02,840
Speaker 1: Of all that. I am with you.

1672
01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:04,600
Speaker 2: I actually didn't feel strongly one way or the other

1673
01:18:04,640 --> 01:18:07,119
where I look at executives a bunch of them and say, oh,

1674
01:18:07,159 --> 01:18:10,279
their off season was terrible versus oh it was really good.

1675
01:18:10,439 --> 01:18:13,000
It just felt like there was a bunch of Vedella

1676
01:18:13,079 --> 01:18:15,479
off seasons into the fold. And so these are the

1677
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,399
these are the front offices that stood out.

1678
01:18:17,319 --> 01:18:17,840
Speaker 1: The most to me.

1679
01:18:18,319 --> 01:18:21,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I's a good one though, I mean I've

1680
01:18:21,439 --> 01:18:24,239
really kind of wrestled with it. But like there were

1681
01:18:24,279 --> 01:18:26,840
hard decisions to make in Boston, and like there was

1682
01:18:26,920 --> 01:18:29,239
it wasn't just like the specifics of who goes, but

1683
01:18:29,319 --> 01:18:32,880
like how far do we go with this, like you know,

1684
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:37,000
money saving enterprise and maybe maybe ownership just said here's

1685
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:39,319
how new ownership said, here's how far you are allowed

1686
01:18:39,359 --> 01:18:42,199
to go. But but like there's a scenario where the

1687
01:18:42,239 --> 01:18:45,560
teardown is much more thorough than it was. There's a

1688
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:48,359
scenario where Jalen Brown's not on this team anymore because

1689
01:18:48,399 --> 01:18:51,680
like it would have been I, had I been in charge,

1690
01:18:51,680 --> 01:18:53,760
I would have looked at it and said, like, well,

1691
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:55,880
he can't be a number one on a decent team.

1692
01:18:55,920 --> 01:18:57,920
That's just not that's that's not gonna end. He is

1693
01:18:58,119 --> 01:19:02,039
and and maybe better than that. So like there's the

1694
01:19:02,119 --> 01:19:05,960
difficulty of like just tearing up a contender, even if

1695
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:08,560
the month, if the financial situation dictated that like this

1696
01:19:08,600 --> 01:19:11,560
is probably what you got to do. That I think

1697
01:19:11,600 --> 01:19:14,840
that under sells how tricky it was to make the

1698
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:19,079
specific moves that Boston made and to I don't know,

1699
01:19:19,079 --> 01:19:21,399
stop where they stopped. And because it's just so easy

1700
01:19:21,479 --> 01:19:23,159
to go all the way or to just do nothing.

1701
01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:24,960
I don't know. I think that was a harder job

1702
01:19:25,000 --> 01:19:27,399
than it maybe seemed like. So he's there, and then

1703
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:29,439
I got pat Riley. It could have been Andy Ellisberg.

1704
01:19:29,479 --> 01:19:31,880
I don't really truly know who's I imagine the buck

1705
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,159
stops at Riley, but one I credited Spolser for this,

1706
01:19:36,239 --> 01:19:39,479
but green lighting an offensive overhaul like that's that had

1707
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:42,439
to have been at least been controversial. I think that

1708
01:19:43,279 --> 01:19:45,840
has turned out to be a good decision. And the

1709
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:48,640
Norman Powell trade, like for what the Heat gave up

1710
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:52,840
to get Norm Powell, I just it's I don't know

1711
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:56,880
what else you call it. He's he's I thought, there's

1712
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:59,119
no way he repeated what he did last he would

1713
01:19:59,159 --> 01:20:01,319
repeat what he did with the a person like he's

1714
01:20:02,279 --> 01:20:05,000
as good or better. So I yeah, and you give

1715
01:20:05,079 --> 01:20:06,760
up what did you give up? Kevin Love and Kyle

1716
01:20:06,840 --> 01:20:07,560
Anderson and.

1717
01:20:08,079 --> 01:20:09,760
Speaker 1: No one was nothing that was going to be an

1718
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:11,119
active part of your team.

1719
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:14,000
Speaker 3: Right, So it just that that's that's one of the

1720
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:17,079
biggest lopsided trades of the season of the summer.

1721
01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:19,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm trying to think of if anybody else brings

1722
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:21,560
to mind, there's obviously I don't know.

1723
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,399
Speaker 1: What do you have New Orleans got, Derek Queen? Do

1724
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:25,000
you think.

1725
01:20:26,960 --> 01:20:30,039
Speaker 3: I really know? I? I mean it, I don't. I

1726
01:20:30,159 --> 01:20:33,840
struggle with I get maybe like, can we outside the

1727
01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,760
box it and go like Zach Cleman for just not

1728
01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:40,279
even starting negotiations with Jahn Morant uh and making the

1729
01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:43,399
Bane trade? I don't know. Probably not. I I really

1730
01:20:43,399 --> 01:20:44,880
don't have another great option.

1731
01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:47,159
Speaker 1: No, I don't. I don't either. I think we hit

1732
01:20:47,239 --> 01:20:48,239
on all the big ones.

1733
01:20:48,279 --> 01:20:53,039
Speaker 2: Do you have any other thoughts on awards?

1734
01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:57,159
Speaker 3: Not? I mean no, not really. I think we we

1735
01:20:57,159 --> 01:21:00,520
we hit it. I'm glad we had our most improved

1736
01:21:01,079 --> 01:21:05,399
criteria discussion. Uh, I don't know what? How about this?

1737
01:21:05,760 --> 01:21:09,119
What award? Let's before we close it? What like number

1738
01:21:09,159 --> 01:21:12,800
one guy in any category do you feel is most

1739
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:17,479
likely to not be there the next time we do this? Ooh,

1740
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:19,880
for me, it's easy. It's probably whenby because he's gonna miss.

1741
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:24,000
It'll be actually officially small below the threshold I could have.

1742
01:21:24,239 --> 01:21:26,600
Speaker 2: I could probably say Rudy Gobert for that too. But

1743
01:21:26,680 --> 01:21:30,239
I do feel like there's gonna be some shifting dynamics

1744
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:32,720
when it comes to sixth man of the year, maybe

1745
01:21:32,760 --> 01:21:35,119
just because, but maybe I might be assigning my own

1746
01:21:35,159 --> 01:21:37,960
thoughts to that because I thought that field was so deep, and.

1747
01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:40,159
Speaker 3: I think most improved could change too, because there's I

1748
01:21:40,199 --> 01:21:42,399
had so many guys like we could come back here

1749
01:21:42,399 --> 01:21:44,239
in Austin. Reeves could be number one, like I think

1750
01:21:44,279 --> 01:21:46,399
that's that's on the table, or like someone further down

1751
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:49,720
ballot could like Recheppard could be number one on my

1752
01:21:49,800 --> 01:21:51,039
ballot at least.

1753
01:21:52,119 --> 01:21:55,840
Speaker 2: Ah, Well, I think folks, since we're done with awards,

1754
01:21:55,880 --> 01:22:05,319
it means it's stat padding time, mini segment from Grant

1755
01:22:05,319 --> 01:22:07,920
and I think we each have something for each other

1756
01:22:08,039 --> 01:22:11,720
if I remember correctly, did you want to start us off?

1757
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:15,119
Speaker 3: All right, I'm gonna try my very best to articulate

1758
01:22:15,159 --> 01:22:17,920
this in a way that is one easy to edit

1759
01:22:18,039 --> 01:22:21,199
and two easy for you to understand. So, Dan, the

1760
01:22:21,239 --> 01:22:24,640
Miami Heat have killed the pick and roll. It's official.

1761
01:22:24,800 --> 01:22:26,560
They took it out back and they shot it. We'll

1762
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,840
never see the pick and roll again. It's gone. So

1763
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:34,560
in memoriam, I have compiled a list of the NBA

1764
01:22:34,640 --> 01:22:37,960
players in the last ten seasons who have logged at

1765
01:22:38,039 --> 01:22:41,880
least nine hundred possessions when credited as the pick and

1766
01:22:41,960 --> 01:22:45,920
roll ball handler generally speaking, that has led the league.

1767
01:22:46,079 --> 01:22:48,680
So what we're talking about is over the last ten years,

1768
01:22:49,119 --> 01:22:51,840
who has come close to or led the league with

1769
01:22:51,880 --> 01:22:55,199
at least nine hundred possessions as a pick and roll

1770
01:22:55,239 --> 01:22:59,960
ball handler. There are one, two, three, four, five, six players.

1771
01:23:01,000 --> 01:23:03,640
I'm gonna give you three strikes. I believe you'll get

1772
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:04,319
one or two.

1773
01:23:04,199 --> 01:23:08,000
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So there are six players who have run

1774
01:23:08,239 --> 01:23:11,840
in a single season in ninney of the last ten years,

1775
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,279
any of the last ten years, in a single season

1776
01:23:15,319 --> 01:23:19,000
have run nine hundred pick. So I'm trying to pick

1777
01:23:19,000 --> 01:23:21,520
a single season, and there's six occurrences of it.

1778
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:23,640
Speaker 3: I just want you to pick a player. Just give

1779
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:26,439
me a name and because and if you give me

1780
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:28,600
that name, it's because you think that player in the

1781
01:23:28,640 --> 01:23:32,199
last ten years has run nine hundred pick and rolls

1782
01:23:32,479 --> 01:23:35,079
as the ball handler. At some point, you don't have

1783
01:23:35,119 --> 01:23:35,720
to pick the season.

1784
01:23:36,119 --> 01:23:37,079
Speaker 1: It's not cubatively.

1785
01:23:38,079 --> 01:23:41,159
Speaker 3: Nope. I'll tell you that someone's done it five times,

1786
01:23:41,239 --> 01:23:43,600
someone's done it twice, and the other four have done

1787
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:43,960
it once.

1788
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,920
Speaker 1: Okay. My first guest would be Chris.

1789
01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:50,520
Speaker 3: Paul incorrect, strike one.

1790
01:23:51,279 --> 01:23:55,720
Speaker 1: Oh this is awful, then all right, one of that's

1791
01:23:55,760 --> 01:23:58,760
so much. James Harden, he is on the list.

1792
01:23:58,800 --> 01:24:01,640
Speaker 3: He did it one time. That was twenty sixteen seventeen.

1793
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:03,760
He ran nine hundred and forty four pick and roll I.

1794
01:24:03,760 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 2: Guess he's always been iso so hours. I would have

1795
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:08,079
shocked that he didn't do it more.

1796
01:24:08,600 --> 01:24:10,159
Speaker 1: I don't uh luka.

1797
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:12,840
Speaker 3: Dacic Nope, hasn't strike two.

1798
01:24:13,600 --> 01:24:16,239
Speaker 1: Oh man, this is gonna be over so quickly.

1799
01:24:16,439 --> 01:24:17,239
Speaker 3: How's it feel?

1800
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: Doesn't feel great? No run? And over the last how

1801
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:22,960
many years?

1802
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:25,840
Speaker 3: Ten seasons? So we go all the the furthest back

1803
01:24:25,880 --> 01:24:29,319
we go is uh sixteen seventeen.

1804
01:24:30,359 --> 01:24:34,199
Speaker 2: Pick and roll heavy player over the last ten seasons?

1805
01:24:34,319 --> 01:24:37,199
How many of these names am I gonna hate myself for?

1806
01:24:37,760 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 3: Uh? There's the one, the guy that has done it

1807
01:24:40,159 --> 01:24:42,399
five times and has led the league in pick and

1808
01:24:42,479 --> 01:24:46,279
roll ball handler possessions. Like more than that in the

1809
01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:48,680
last decade. You'll be upset that you didn't.

1810
01:24:48,439 --> 01:24:52,680
Speaker 1: Get Russell Westbrook.

1811
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:55,920
Speaker 3: Russell Westbrook is on the list. He is not the

1812
01:24:55,960 --> 01:25:00,479
five timer. He also, like Harden, in sixteen seventeen, crested hundred.

1813
01:25:00,520 --> 01:25:02,520
He had nine hundred and sixty seven pick and roll

1814
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:03,600
ball handler possessions.

1815
01:25:05,319 --> 01:25:08,520
Speaker 1: What about he's got.

1816
01:25:08,439 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 3: Lebron no, not Lebron strike three. I want to get

1817
01:25:12,800 --> 01:25:15,600
so the guy, the first guy that should have come

1818
01:25:15,640 --> 01:25:17,560
to mind, Well, I don't know how I would have

1819
01:25:17,560 --> 01:25:21,239
done on this, Probably not any better than you. He

1820
01:25:21,399 --> 01:25:25,039
defines his team's offense. Uh, he's a great passer out

1821
01:25:25,079 --> 01:25:27,199
of the pick and roll, but he will shoot the

1822
01:25:27,199 --> 01:25:31,319
pull up three and that's why it's dangerous.

1823
01:25:31,159 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 2: It's a great passer out of the pick. Steph Curry, No,

1824
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,560
he didn't do it one. That's been the warrior.

1825
01:25:37,600 --> 01:25:40,920
Speaker 3: Smith's criticism over the years been more pick and rolls.

1826
01:25:40,960 --> 01:25:43,880
Please I can, so I can. Let me tell you

1827
01:25:43,920 --> 01:25:48,479
a couple of the other one timers, D'Angelo Russell, which has.

1828
01:25:48,520 --> 01:25:50,159
Speaker 1: Never would have gotten him in a trillion.

1829
01:25:51,399 --> 01:25:54,640
Speaker 3: Uh, you got Russ, you got hardened. Damian Lillard did

1830
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:58,479
it once. He had over nine hundred KEMBA. Walker did

1831
01:25:58,479 --> 01:26:01,359
it twice. So you gotta go like that gives you

1832
01:26:01,399 --> 01:26:03,319
the sense of like when we're talking about because that's

1833
01:26:03,359 --> 01:26:09,079
in like the he did it eighteen nineteen and sixteen seventeen. Oh.

1834
01:26:09,199 --> 01:26:12,000
Jalen Brunson did lead the league once. That was twenty

1835
01:26:12,039 --> 01:26:14,000
three twenty four, but it was only eight hundred and nine,

1836
01:26:14,039 --> 01:26:17,680
so he didn't meet the cutoff. The guy that you

1837
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:22,720
should have known is Trey Young. I had five seasons

1838
01:26:22,760 --> 01:26:26,000
of at least nine hundred pick and roll possessions. In

1839
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:29,199
twenty one twenty two he has the largest share on record,

1840
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:32,640
one thousand and sixty six possessions credited as a pick

1841
01:26:32,680 --> 01:26:34,960
and roll ball a handler. That's the most of any

1842
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:37,520
season of any player in the last ten seasons.

1843
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 2: I'm gonnough. I didn't get Trip. I never would have

1844
01:26:40,800 --> 01:26:42,399
gotten d Lo. I don't even think I would have

1845
01:26:42,399 --> 01:26:43,239
gotten Kemba Walker.

1846
01:26:43,279 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 3: I no chance for me on Delo or Kemba. Yeah,

1847
01:26:45,880 --> 01:26:48,079
no way. I would have said Chris Paul. I would

1848
01:26:48,079 --> 01:26:49,000
have said Chris Paul first.

1849
01:26:49,039 --> 01:26:51,680
Speaker 2: By the way, Also, that was the one I thought

1850
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,479
he when you I almost knew I was giving myself

1851
01:26:54,479 --> 01:26:54,880
a strike.

1852
01:26:55,159 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 1: I felt this is too obvious.

1853
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:59,840
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is, like the best Clippers years were

1854
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:03,119
like fourteen to fifteen, and that's outside the range we're

1855
01:27:03,159 --> 01:27:05,760
talking about, which is just basically we're just old.

1856
01:27:06,600 --> 01:27:08,359
Speaker 1: It was nice to get some of my own medicine

1857
01:27:08,399 --> 01:27:08,960
for a change.

1858
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:12,640
Speaker 2: Now you're gonna get dealt some of your typical amounts

1859
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:14,680
of medicine grant.

1860
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:17,039
Speaker 1: And you will get three I don't know.

1861
01:27:17,079 --> 01:27:19,279
Speaker 2: Maybe three is too many. We might only get one strike,

1862
01:27:19,319 --> 01:27:22,920
but you need to guess. Let's guess, how do I

1863
01:27:22,960 --> 01:27:27,800
want to frame this. Guess which player leads each NBA

1864
01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:33,119
franchise in all time fifty point games. Oh, so, I'm

1865
01:27:33,119 --> 01:27:35,520
gonna give you three strikes per team. We'll get to

1866
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:37,319
work through this, but I'm gonna bounce around the league.

1867
01:27:37,319 --> 01:27:39,560
I've chosen the teams mostly at random, and we're not

1868
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:43,840
gonna do every team. Okay, first team up your they're

1869
01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:46,039
not yours, but shout out to our video editor Andrew

1870
01:27:46,039 --> 01:27:46,960
Boston Celtics.

1871
01:27:47,760 --> 01:27:54,479
Speaker 3: So most fifty point games in Boston Celtics history, correct,

1872
01:27:56,199 --> 01:27:58,840
I'm gonna go recently, I'm gonna go Jason Tatum.

1873
01:27:59,039 --> 01:28:04,399
Speaker 2: That is correct, one for one, who has the most

1874
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:06,840
all time fifty point games in Lakers history?

1875
01:28:07,239 --> 01:28:12,880
Speaker 3: Oh h well, I mean there's an obvious answer, but

1876
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:16,359
I just scoring was not what it used to be,

1877
01:28:18,239 --> 01:28:21,319
or scoring didn't used to be what it is. I'm

1878
01:28:21,359 --> 01:28:24,720
gonna I'm not gonna say Kareem and I'm gonna regret it,

1879
01:28:24,760 --> 01:28:28,039
and I'm gonna say Kobe two for two.

1880
01:28:28,319 --> 01:28:31,840
Speaker 2: Kobe has twenty six fifty point games in a Lakers uniform.

1881
01:28:31,880 --> 01:28:35,079
This is regular season and playoffs combined. Jason Tatum led

1882
01:28:35,119 --> 01:28:38,039
to Celtics with seven. Boston clearly doesn't have scores, and

1883
01:28:38,079 --> 01:28:43,840
it's our history, historical arsenal. Next franchise, the Chicago Bulls.

1884
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:46,039
Who leads them all time in fifty point games?

1885
01:28:47,399 --> 01:28:50,800
Speaker 3: This feels cuea this that's bait or this feels like

1886
01:28:50,840 --> 01:28:54,680
a trap. I mean, uh, I have to say, Michael Jordan.

1887
01:28:55,039 --> 01:28:58,079
Speaker 2: That is in it's correct, Michael thirty eight. Nobody else

1888
01:28:58,119 --> 01:28:58,920
has more than two.

1889
01:28:59,359 --> 01:29:01,880
Speaker 3: There's nothing scarier than one. That just it has to

1890
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:02,720
be this guy.

1891
01:29:04,119 --> 01:29:07,560
Speaker 2: Who leads the Knicks in all time fifty point games.

1892
01:29:07,600 --> 01:29:09,680
I do think these are gonna get The first few

1893
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:10,520
I thought were.

1894
01:29:10,319 --> 01:29:12,680
Speaker 1: Close to Gimme's. I think these are gonna get harder.

1895
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:17,039
Speaker 3: For that, I struggled with all three of the first ones. Okay,

1896
01:29:17,079 --> 01:29:23,560
the Knicks. Do we go recent again or do we

1897
01:29:23,600 --> 01:29:26,199
go super recent? I'm trying to read your face here

1898
01:29:26,319 --> 01:29:27,159
which way I should get?

1899
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:28,720
Speaker 1: What would be recent?

1900
01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,479
Speaker 3: Well, Jalen Brunson would be super recent. This not not

1901
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,640
my official pick. Carmelo Anthony would be recent, but not

1902
01:29:35,439 --> 01:29:38,479
as recent as Brunson. Or do you go further back?

1903
01:29:39,960 --> 01:29:42,359
It was just harder to get fifty long time ago.

1904
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:47,119
I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say mellow.

1905
01:29:48,159 --> 01:29:51,760
Speaker 1: That is incorrect. Strike one?

1906
01:29:52,359 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 3: Do I get to know who it is?

1907
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,520
Speaker 1: You get three total strikes for this entire.

1908
01:29:57,520 --> 01:29:59,720
Speaker 3: Oh oh, so this could just be over if I

1909
01:29:59,720 --> 01:30:03,119
don't get it for the Knicks. Jalen Brunson, that is incorrect.

1910
01:30:03,119 --> 01:30:03,640
Speaker 1: Strike two.

1911
01:30:03,960 --> 01:30:08,560
Speaker 3: Oh so we're gonna have to go back? How far

1912
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:17,640
back do we go? Oh? Man, I'd like to phone.

1913
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:20,560
I'd like to phone a friend. Can you can you

1914
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,920
tell me? Do I get a hint or hints? Allowed?

1915
01:30:24,560 --> 01:30:26,079
Can you give me a decade.

1916
01:30:26,279 --> 01:30:28,239
Speaker 2: I will give I can give you a decade, or

1917
01:30:28,279 --> 01:30:30,640
I can give you a clue. Would you prefer the

1918
01:30:30,680 --> 01:30:34,239
decade or the or I can give you a like

1919
01:30:34,279 --> 01:30:38,279
a word I can give you both. Think eighties and

1920
01:30:38,399 --> 01:30:44,960
also think royalty. Oh, Bernard King, that is correct. He

1921
01:30:45,079 --> 01:30:47,359
leads the Knicks with five all time fifty point game.

1922
01:30:48,079 --> 01:30:50,880
So you are two strikes deep of your three. Sir,

1923
01:30:51,479 --> 01:30:54,760
who leads the San Antonio Spurs in all time fifty

1924
01:30:54,760 --> 01:30:55,640
point games?

1925
01:30:55,960 --> 01:31:03,159
Speaker 3: Hmmm? Man, well, I know, I know David Robinson has

1926
01:31:03,199 --> 01:31:05,840
at least one because he scored seventy on the last

1927
01:31:05,920 --> 01:31:09,199
day of the season one year. Did anybody else ever

1928
01:31:09,239 --> 01:31:13,199
get fifty? Tim Duncan just seems like he would out

1929
01:31:13,199 --> 01:31:15,000
of respect stop at forty.

1930
01:31:14,760 --> 01:31:17,640
Speaker 1: Nine, out of respect for what.

1931
01:31:17,880 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 3: Respect for the game, Just like no one should score

1932
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,319
this many points. I could. I can imagine him. It's

1933
01:31:22,359 --> 01:31:23,319
like this is too showy.

1934
01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:25,680
Speaker 1: Uh. I don't know.

1935
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:29,439
Speaker 3: Kawhi probably got close, Tony Parker might have gotten close.

1936
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:35,399
George Gervin probably are recounting. Aba. I'll just say David

1937
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:37,239
Robinson because I know he at least had one.

1938
01:31:38,039 --> 01:31:39,199
Speaker 1: That is incorrect.

1939
01:31:39,800 --> 01:31:41,399
Speaker 2: Well, imp, I'm in a rule that you get a

1940
01:31:41,439 --> 01:31:43,600
strike back if you make it past So now.

1941
01:31:43,479 --> 01:31:50,039
Speaker 3: Okay, I love strikes, so now and it's not David Robinson. Uh,

1942
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,239
I'll just go George Gervin, that is correct.

1943
01:31:53,399 --> 01:31:56,640
Speaker 2: Okay, you were he had five, So now you are back.

1944
01:31:56,680 --> 01:31:59,039
We reached that to one strike. If you could one

1945
01:31:59,039 --> 01:32:01,079
shot kill these, you might be down to zero strikes.

1946
01:32:01,600 --> 01:32:02,039
Speaker 1: Look at that.

1947
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,119
Speaker 3: Most importantly, I was right that Tim Duncan wasn't interested

1948
01:32:06,159 --> 01:32:06,960
in fifty points.

1949
01:32:07,439 --> 01:32:10,600
Speaker 2: Who leads the Golden State Warriors all time in fifty

1950
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:11,239
point games?

1951
01:32:12,199 --> 01:32:17,840
Speaker 3: Well, Dan, uh, is this franchise like we can talk

1952
01:32:17,840 --> 01:32:20,840
about the Philadelphia Warriors, and then I have to say, will.

1953
01:32:21,399 --> 01:32:24,279
Speaker 2: That one hundred and nine to fifty point games, which

1954
01:32:24,319 --> 01:32:29,439
is steps in second place with sixteen absolute Willy ketcham

1955
01:32:30,239 --> 01:32:32,439
Well off the Wayne's say, okay, so you're down to

1956
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:37,279
zero strikes. Who leads the Denver Nuggets franchise in all

1957
01:32:37,319 --> 01:32:39,039
time fifty point games?

1958
01:32:39,520 --> 01:32:43,600
Speaker 3: Hmmm? They had some real pace and space stuff going

1959
01:32:43,640 --> 01:32:46,199
on in the eighties. I don't know if I could

1960
01:32:46,319 --> 01:32:49,399
name the pissed the Nuggets leading scorer from that time.

1961
01:32:50,720 --> 01:32:55,279
I mean I will. I will use the benefit of

1962
01:32:55,319 --> 01:32:57,760
having my strikes back and say, Jokich.

1963
01:32:58,640 --> 01:33:01,920
Speaker 1: That is partially correc You have one of two names.

1964
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:05,119
Speaker 3: Who are oh we've got a tie. I'll throw Carmelo

1965
01:33:05,199 --> 01:33:09,800
out there, strike one, okay, yeah, I'm really in trouble here.

1966
01:33:09,880 --> 01:33:13,439
Oh Jamal Murray, that is correct.

1967
01:33:13,720 --> 01:33:16,079
Speaker 2: Back down to zero strikes they both, you'll get Ja

1968
01:33:16,119 --> 01:33:17,359
Murray each have five apiece?

1969
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:18,159
Speaker 3: Okay.

1970
01:33:19,079 --> 01:33:26,359
Speaker 2: Who leads the Houston Rockets all time in fifty point games?

1971
01:33:27,319 --> 01:33:28,520
Speaker 3: I gotta go James Harden.

1972
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:31,880
Speaker 2: He does and it's I mean, quite frankly, it's just

1973
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:36,279
not even close. He is at twenty three. Nobody else

1974
01:33:36,359 --> 01:33:40,239
in Rockets history even has more than two, so it's

1975
01:33:40,239 --> 01:33:45,439
a good job by you. Who leads the Miami Heat

1976
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:50,720
all time in fifty point games.

1977
01:33:51,720 --> 01:33:56,520
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start with Dwayne Wade, that is correct.

1978
01:33:56,840 --> 01:34:00,560
Speaker 2: This is getting progressively uninteresting, right he has three. Lebron

1979
01:34:00,640 --> 01:34:03,640
is in second place with two. They've only had five

1980
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:06,880
players in franchise history who have scored fifty points.

1981
01:34:06,880 --> 01:34:08,600
Speaker 3: I honestly, Jimmy Butler must have had one.

1982
01:34:08,960 --> 01:34:13,079
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler, Lebron, Wade, Zoe, and Glenn Rice.

1983
01:34:13,399 --> 01:34:16,039
Speaker 3: Ohoh, okay.

1984
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:21,520
Speaker 2: Who leads Grant the Portland Trailblazers franchise all time in

1985
01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:25,840
fifty point games? I think that's gotta be Dame with seventeen.

1986
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:27,439
Nobody else has had more than two.

1987
01:34:28,000 --> 01:34:30,439
Speaker 3: Dame had seventeen to fifty point games.

1988
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:35,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, playoffs, regular season. Wow, this one's interesting.

1989
01:34:35,439 --> 01:34:38,840
Speaker 2: Who leads the Minnesota Timberwolves all time in fifty point games?

1990
01:34:39,159 --> 01:34:42,800
Speaker 3: Hmmm? Is it Cat?

1991
01:34:43,319 --> 01:34:46,880
Speaker 2: It is karl anthy Towns with three. I'm actually disappointed

1992
01:34:47,079 --> 01:34:50,199
that you got that one. You're just on a freaking roll.

1993
01:34:50,279 --> 01:34:53,800
Let's even keep going. Who leads the Milwaukee Bucks all

1994
01:34:53,840 --> 01:34:55,800
time in fifty point games?

1995
01:34:56,479 --> 01:35:04,600
Speaker 3: Ooh, well, Kareem's back in the picture. Got some I'm

1996
01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:06,279
gonna I'm gonna say Yannis.

1997
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:07,840
Speaker 1: Still partially correct.

1998
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:13,079
Speaker 3: He is one of the uh is it Michael Red time,

1999
01:35:13,159 --> 01:35:17,279
Let's say Michael Red for Funzies strike one? Okay, Kareem,

2000
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:18,600
that is correct.

2001
01:35:18,680 --> 01:35:21,560
Speaker 2: Both him and Giannis had ten to fifty point games apiece.

2002
01:35:22,039 --> 01:35:26,399
Who leads the Raptors franchise all time in fifty point games?

2003
01:35:27,680 --> 01:35:29,479
Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting, Vince Carter?

2004
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:34,039
Speaker 1: He does with a whopping two? Okay?

2005
01:35:34,960 --> 01:35:39,239
Speaker 2: Who leads the Utah Jazz franchise all time in fifty

2006
01:35:39,279 --> 01:35:40,920
point games?

2007
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:51,279
Speaker 1: I mean Karl Malone incorrect strike one? Man?

2008
01:35:52,600 --> 01:35:55,199
Speaker 3: Uh, Donovan Mitchell.

2009
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:57,319
Speaker 1: Incorrect strike two? Oh?

2010
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:05,000
Speaker 3: Oh oh okay danger, Oh oh, this is a this

2011
01:36:05,039 --> 01:36:08,920
is a franchise thing. He wasn't that good of a

2012
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:09,640
professional score?

2013
01:36:12,800 --> 01:36:13,680
Speaker 1: Who are you thinking of?

2014
01:36:13,960 --> 01:36:16,720
Speaker 3: I was thinking pistol puh, pistol p. But that's like

2015
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:19,640
he just I think he maybe averaged some absurd number

2016
01:36:19,840 --> 01:36:23,880
in college and just wasn't consistently healthy enough to do

2017
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:29,560
that as a pro. Uh, okay, fifty point there's like

2018
01:36:29,600 --> 01:36:33,920
two guys I'm thinking of. Now I'm gonna go Darren Williams.

2019
01:36:34,600 --> 01:36:38,479
Speaker 2: In correct strike three, and that is where our game ends.

2020
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:45,640
Adrian Dantley. Oh yeah, il Karim alone, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2021
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:47,840
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna get there. He's one of those guys

2022
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:49,720
that's like just in my brain. But I'm never gonna

2023
01:36:49,720 --> 01:36:51,079
pick Adrian Dantley for anything.

2024
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,000
Speaker 2: We'll never be able to cut that up. But that

2025
01:36:53,039 --> 01:36:55,159
was a fun exercise because I think you got more

2026
01:36:55,199 --> 01:36:58,319
than half. So let's see, you got through Boston is one,

2027
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:05,840
Chicago is two, Denver three, Golden State four, Houston five, Lakers,

2028
01:37:06,039 --> 01:37:13,640
six Heat, seven Bucks, eight, Timberwolves, nine Nicks ten. You

2029
01:37:13,880 --> 01:37:19,119
got Portland that's eleven. You got the Spurs twelve, Raptors

2030
01:37:19,399 --> 01:37:21,720
their whole. You almost got through half the league.

2031
01:37:21,960 --> 01:37:24,439
Speaker 3: Well do the other do the other half? I did?

2032
01:37:24,520 --> 01:37:26,399
I mean asterisk because I needed you to get me.

2033
01:37:26,399 --> 01:37:28,479
Bernard King, I don't. I don't know if I would

2034
01:37:28,479 --> 01:37:30,119
have gone. I don't know if I would have got

2035
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:30,800
him otherwise.

2036
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:33,079
Speaker 1: I still say that was fairly impression.

2037
01:37:33,079 --> 01:37:35,920
Speaker 2: I don't think I wouldn't have gotten Adrian Dantley for Utah.

2038
01:37:36,119 --> 01:37:38,600
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna no that was that was a tough one.

2039
01:37:39,399 --> 01:37:40,680
Speaker 1: Uh you have anything held to you?

2040
01:37:40,680 --> 01:37:43,479
Speaker 2: That was a good, nice little brisk walk through staffing.

2041
01:37:43,560 --> 01:37:46,680
I would I think we'll be live later this week

2042
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:48,840
without Grant on Saturday, so come check us out. We're

2043
01:37:48,840 --> 01:37:50,720
gonna do our trade questions for every West team. The

2044
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:52,960
Eastern Conference episodes already up. Go check that out, and

2045
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,279
Grant and I are excited to do marking the official

2046
01:37:56,319 --> 01:37:59,800
start of trade season on Monday, December fifteenth.

2047
01:38:00,239 --> 01:38:03,279
Speaker 1: We're doing something. What are we calling it? The Trade

2048
01:38:03,399 --> 01:38:04,319
Value Draft?

2049
01:38:04,479 --> 01:38:10,159
Speaker 3: Trade value Draft? Uh? And all it's gonna be. I

2050
01:38:10,199 --> 01:38:14,239
hope that we have just a complete cluster.

2051
01:38:14,399 --> 01:38:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2052
01:38:14,880 --> 01:38:17,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're already stressing about it. And this is where

2053
01:38:17,920 --> 01:38:19,279
we're not Thursday.

2054
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:22,039
Speaker 3: Not me. I'm just gonna wing it. I'm gonna just

2055
01:38:22,199 --> 01:38:23,079
draft with my heart.

2056
01:38:24,720 --> 01:38:24,920
Speaker 1: You know.

2057
01:38:25,239 --> 01:38:28,199
Speaker 3: It should be interesting. I'll leave it at that. You

2058
01:38:28,199 --> 01:38:29,720
got anything else I.

2059
01:38:29,840 --> 01:38:30,239
Speaker 1: You do not?

2060
01:38:30,399 --> 01:38:30,720
Speaker 3: Thank you?

2061
01:38:30,720 --> 01:38:32,640
Speaker 1: Everyone? Do all that I have to I quote you. Now,

2062
01:38:32,680 --> 01:38:33,399
do all the things.

2063
01:38:33,560 --> 01:38:36,199
Speaker 3: Do all the things. Do the do the rating, reviewing,

2064
01:38:36,239 --> 01:38:39,279
and subscribing. Those are three important things to do. Uh.

2065
01:38:39,479 --> 01:38:41,960
Join our discord links for that in the YouTube podcast description.

2066
01:38:42,039 --> 01:38:44,119
We'll do a mail bag at some point pretty soon,

2067
01:38:44,239 --> 01:38:47,600
so that's a good place to submit, uh if you'd

2068
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:51,239
like us to answer a question or just discuss a topic.

2069
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:54,840
Because we don't speak enough. I'm sure you all think that.

2070
01:38:55,520 --> 01:38:57,880
Tell your friends, Tell your enemies, make sure you comment,

2071
01:38:58,319 --> 01:39:00,239
leave you know, on YouTube, give us thumbs up there,

2072
01:39:00,319 --> 01:39:03,640
like subscribe to all that stuff. Give us hype high points,

2073
01:39:03,720 --> 01:39:05,640
all the hype points. I want so many high points.

2074
01:39:05,680 --> 01:39:06,840
I just don't wan to do with them. What are

2075
01:39:06,840 --> 01:39:08,039
you gonna do with your hype points? Dan?

2076
01:39:10,279 --> 01:39:11,159
Speaker 1: Get all of them.

2077
01:39:11,199 --> 01:39:14,199
Speaker 2: And when we're when we're ranking above mister beast on

2078
01:39:14,319 --> 01:39:15,920
the high point charge because that's when.

2079
01:39:15,800 --> 01:39:17,960
Speaker 3: I'll figure out what I'm gonna do with I'm going

2080
01:39:18,039 --> 01:39:20,359
to redeem them for travel miles. I'm pretty sure that's

2081
01:39:20,439 --> 01:39:22,600
that's like where you want to go so that I

2082
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:27,439
don't know, the hypest place, the hypest place on earth. Yeah,

2083
01:39:27,520 --> 01:39:29,479
tell your friends, tell your enemies, shouts Franklin mckayin an

2084
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:31,239
apologies Ja