WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.039 --> 00:00:15.880 Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 2 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:19.679 this edition is US Army Private first Class Hilbert Margol. 3 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:22.600 He served on a one hundred five millimeter Howards her 4 00:00:22.600 --> 00:00:26.120 team in B Company, three hundred ninety second Field Artillery 5 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:29.879 Battalion in the forty second Infantry Division in World War Two. 6 00:00:30.640 --> 00:00:33.960 He was also among the liberators of Dachau concentration Camp 7 00:00:34.320 --> 00:00:38.079 in late April nineteen forty five. Hilbert Margol was born 8 00:00:38.119 --> 00:00:41.799 on February twenty second, nineteen twenty four. He shared his 9 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:45.960 birthday with his slightly younger twin brother, Howard, and both 10 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.399 of them shared a birthday with our first President. Margol 11 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:52.039 says the boys were frequently reminded of that for a 12 00:00:52.159 --> 00:00:53.320 very specific reason. 13 00:00:53.600 --> 00:00:56.920 Well, she always told us every year on our birthday 14 00:00:57.000 --> 00:01:01.600 for many years, since we were born on George Washington's birthday. 15 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:05.319 We could never tell a lie, and we tried to 16 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:07.040 honor her statement. 17 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:09.959 Margol was just a few months shy of his eighteenth 18 00:01:10.040 --> 00:01:13.879 birthday when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on December seventh, 19 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:15.040 nineteen forty one. 20 00:01:15.400 --> 00:01:19.480 Well, we were seniors in high school. That was December seventh, 21 00:01:20.079 --> 00:01:25.200 nineteen forty one. We graduated high school a little over 22 00:01:25.280 --> 00:01:30.879 a month later, January of forty two, And what I 23 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:35.519 remember about that attack, of course, was the announcement and 24 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:42.239 then President Franklin Delano Roosevelt's statement be a radio to 25 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:47.879 the entire country what had happened, and the US was 26 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:49.439 now at war with Japan. 27 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:52.680 The attack on Pearl Harbor brought the US into World 28 00:01:52.680 --> 00:01:55.760 War II. A few days later, the country would also 29 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:59.280 be at war with Italy and Germany. But the Margol family, 30 00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:02.879 which is Jewish, had already been paying close attention to 31 00:02:02.920 --> 00:02:06.920 the worsening situation in Europe out of concern for family 32 00:02:07.159 --> 00:02:08.319 living in Lithuania. 33 00:02:08.759 --> 00:02:14.039 Our father had his youngest sister with her husband and 34 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:20.080 two or three young children living in Lithuania. He tried 35 00:02:20.759 --> 00:02:25.479 talking her into relocating to the United States. He would 36 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:30.439 sponsor her and her husband and children, but she felt 37 00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:34.840 at that time Lithuania was safe and they just wanted 38 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.560 to stay there. They used to correspond back and forth 39 00:02:39.080 --> 00:02:45.439 with letters, and finally, when the letters stopped coming from her, 40 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:51.400 he knew something that was not right, but never really 41 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:52.560 knew what happened. 42 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:57.479 Decades later they finally found out what happened. Margle's brother, Howard, 43 00:02:57.520 --> 00:03:01.280 became a professor and took students to Lithuania. On one 44 00:03:01.280 --> 00:03:04.319 of those visits, he found an elderly man who remembered 45 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:06.360 what happened to Jewish families. 46 00:03:06.560 --> 00:03:11.039 He told that before the Germans ever arrived in Lithuania, 47 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.639 there was a group called the Lithuanian Bandits. They were 48 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:21.000 Nazi sympathizers. They rounded up all the Jews in the 49 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:25.560 town took them out in the woods. First, they took 50 00:03:25.639 --> 00:03:31.400 the young babies by their ankles, swung them around and 51 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:35.439 hit their heads against trees in the woods while their 52 00:03:35.919 --> 00:03:40.240 parents and other children in the same family had to 53 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:44.759 stand there and watch. And then they turned around, had 54 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.360 them dig a trench, and they ended up shooting them 55 00:03:48.360 --> 00:03:52.840 all and just burying them in that trench. And that's 56 00:03:52.879 --> 00:03:58.280 when he got the real story and he learned, and 57 00:03:58.360 --> 00:04:02.879 we know all those years, even today, the Lithuanian government 58 00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:07.840 has never wanted the world to know that some of 59 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:12.599 their own citizens killed a lot of Jewish families before 60 00:04:12.639 --> 00:04:16.839 the German army ever even came into Lithuania, and to 61 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:20.199 a certain extent, a lot of something similar to that 62 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:24.560 happened in Poland. The government just more or less suppressed 63 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:25.399 the information. 64 00:04:25.839 --> 00:04:29.959 After graduating high school in January nineteen forty two, Margol 65 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.279 and his brother joined the Army. They entered the ROTC 66 00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:37.639 program and began training on one hundred five millimeter howitzers 67 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:40.720 while stationed in Florida. However, they agreed to switch to 68 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:43.519 the Army reserves when told it might allow them to 69 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:46.519 go to college before heading to war, and they did 70 00:04:46.519 --> 00:04:49.439 go to multiple schools before the Army decided they needed 71 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:52.120 to send a lot more young men to win the war. 72 00:04:52.560 --> 00:04:56.480 Margo eventually returned to working with one hundred five millimeter howitzers, 73 00:04:56.920 --> 00:04:59.360 but he had to fight to get back there after 74 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.879 The Army and n initially had other plans for him. 75 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:04.879 And of course when I got to the forty second 76 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:09.879 Infantry Division, for about the first two maybe three months, 77 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.439 they put me in the infantry until finally they saw 78 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:17.879 my mo and realized I belonged in the artillery. So 79 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:22.439 then they after they qualified me on a M one 80 00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:27.199 rifle which was infantry and I got the sharpshoot of 81 00:05:27.279 --> 00:05:31.920 metal and the instructor told me the reason why I 82 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:35.680 was so good because I never held a gun before 83 00:05:35.680 --> 00:05:39.399 in my life. I didn't have any bad habits he 84 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.120 had to try and break. So it got back to 85 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:43.920 the artillery. 86 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:47.319 The howitzer units were very effective in the war. In fact, 87 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.399 Margol says Germans later told him how surprised they were 88 00:05:50.480 --> 00:05:54.000 by the speed of the US artillery. So what made 89 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:56.360 American artillery so devastating? 90 00:05:56.759 --> 00:06:02.319 We had tremendous training. We could do everything in our sleep. 91 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:06.399 We were so highly trained by the time we shipped 92 00:06:06.399 --> 00:06:11.000 over there was second We could do whatever we had 93 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:17.199 to do without really thinking a lot. What are the components, Well, 94 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:22.839 we didn't carry them one rifles. We carried carbine rifles smaller, 95 00:06:24.240 --> 00:06:29.439 same thirty calibers but smaller, lighter, smaller and wouldn't shoot 96 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:35.759 as far. And UH learned how to be uh uh 97 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.079 handled them one o fives each. We had four one 98 00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:44.040 oh five million horses in our gun battery. Howard was 99 00:06:44.040 --> 00:06:46.879 a gunner on number two. I was a gunner on 100 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:51.519 number three, and uh we had a sorry. Each gun 101 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:55.639 had a sergeant, a corporal, and then the gunner was 102 00:06:55.800 --> 00:07:00.240 third in command. And each howard had contained a total 103 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:06.519 of ten men sergeant, corporal, gunner, truck driver and the 104 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:13.120 balance for ammunition preparers. And that was a setup, and 105 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:17.439 we were so highly trained. Once we got the first 106 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.360 fire missions. After a few fire missions, we knew what 107 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:24.839 the commands were going to follow. So they were preparing 108 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:28.879 the ammunition even before we got the information because they 109 00:07:29.360 --> 00:07:30.879 knew what was coming next. 110 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.000 After pulling them out of college, the army had also 111 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:38.079 split up Margol and his brother Howard into different units 112 00:07:38.120 --> 00:07:41.680 in different parts of the country, and after repeated attempts 113 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:45.639 to serve together failed, it took some higher authorities to 114 00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:46.360 make it happen. 115 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.639 Three times, he put in a request for transfer to 116 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:54.639 my outfit in Oklahoma, get back in the artillery, which 117 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:59.000 we were highly trained for as gunners. So after the 118 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:02.519 third time nothing happened, he went to his captain, what's 119 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:07.040 the status of my transfer requests? The captain told him, 120 00:08:07.040 --> 00:08:11.199 my job is to train you, not transfer you. So 121 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.639 with that information he wrote a letter to our mother 122 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:19.720 telling her the situation. She wrote a letter to President 123 00:08:19.839 --> 00:08:24.040 Roosevelt saying that she wanted us to serve together, and 124 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:27.560 we wanted to serve back together. Two weeks later, she 125 00:08:27.639 --> 00:08:31.439 got a letter from the White House signed by the 126 00:08:31.480 --> 00:08:36.240 President's aide some general that as a two star mother, 127 00:08:36.399 --> 00:08:39.759 her request would be granted, didn't say whether I'm going 128 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:44.120 to him or he's coming to me. Two weeks later 129 00:08:44.200 --> 00:08:47.399 she got another letter from the War Department basically saying 130 00:08:47.399 --> 00:08:51.159 the same thing. We still didn't know. Fortunately, she got 131 00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:54.399 the third letter from the one hundred and fourth Division 132 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:58.120 headquarters saying Howard was going to be transferred to my 133 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.840 outfit at oklahom Oh. That was time for celebration. 134 00:09:02.120 --> 00:09:04.919 In late nineteen forty four, the Army quickly prepared the 135 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:08.360 forty second Infantry Division and two others to get to 136 00:09:08.399 --> 00:09:11.039 Europe to fight in the Battle of the Bulge. Not 137 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:14.240 all of the division made it over in time, including Margol, 138 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:17.679 but those that did suffered through intense fighting on the 139 00:09:17.759 --> 00:09:20.759 last couple of days at the Bulge. After a couple 140 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:24.799 of weeks to regroup, the full forty second Division, including Margol, 141 00:09:25.200 --> 00:09:29.120 saw its first action in January nineteen forty five in 142 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:30.000 southern France. 143 00:09:30.399 --> 00:09:33.840 Well, we still thought we were in training in the 144 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.360 French countryside north of Marseille. They told us it's close 145 00:09:38.399 --> 00:09:42.039 to midnight one night to dig in our howarzers. So 146 00:09:42.120 --> 00:09:45.399 we dug the howarzers in. They told us who put 147 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:49.039 our camouflage nets over the guns? We thought well, it's 148 00:09:49.039 --> 00:09:51.840 a sale part of the training until early, very early, 149 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:58.159 the first light next morning shall start flying over our heads. Said, well, 150 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:01.480 this must be the real thing, and we realized we 151 00:10:01.480 --> 00:10:05.039 were at the time in a village called Wingans or Motor, 152 00:10:05.799 --> 00:10:10.679 the village of WinGen, France, on the Motor River. We 153 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.080 would dug in on one side of the river. The Germans. 154 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:16.840 On the other side of the river was what the 155 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:19.960 locals called a mountain. We called it a very high hill. 156 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.440 The Germans were dug in on the other side of 157 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:27.759 that very high hill. Took us about three days to learn, 158 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:32.679 due to the difference in the sound, which shells flying 159 00:10:32.679 --> 00:10:37.440 over our heads were from the Germans going towards targets 160 00:10:37.480 --> 00:10:41.919 behind us, and which shells from the one fifty five 161 00:10:42.000 --> 00:10:46.480 milimeter howartzes and the two hundred and forty milimeter howartzes 162 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:51.399 behind them were firing towards targets behind the German lines 163 00:10:51.440 --> 00:10:53.720 on the other side of the river. You could tell 164 00:10:53.759 --> 00:10:57.360 by the difference in the sound, you learn which shells 165 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:00.399 were going coming from where. 166 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:03.600 And one of the first things Margol learned in combat 167 00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:06.960 was that he was never very far from the howitzers. 168 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:12.320 We had sleeping bags so at nightfall we had to 169 00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:18.039 get in our sleeping bags, and throughout combat we never 170 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:21.399 were more than a few feet or a few yards 171 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:27.519 away from the howitzer because we had to get ready 172 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:31.039 for fire missions morning, noon, night. We could get fire 173 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:35.080 missions at any time because we were in direct support 174 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:39.240 of the two twenty second Infantry guys right in front 175 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.559 of us. We never put our howartzers inside any city, 176 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.159 town or village. We were always on the outskirts because 177 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.759 the infantry guys were in the city towns or villages 178 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:56.320 and whatever was holding them up from advancing, that was 179 00:11:56.360 --> 00:11:58.399 the targets that we were firing at. 180 00:11:58.639 --> 00:12:01.720 That's Hilbert Margol. He's a US Army veteran of World 181 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:05.039 War Two. In just a moment, the forty second Infantry 182 00:12:05.080 --> 00:12:09.240 Division keeps pushing east and eventually helps to liberate Docou 183 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:14.799 Concentration Camp. I'm Greg Corumbus and this is Veterans Chronicles. 184 00:12:14.639 --> 00:12:17.840 Sixty Seconds of Service. This sixty seconds of Service is 185 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:22.080 presented by T Mobile, recognizing these steadfast, edication and sacrifices 186 00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:24.759 made by service members and their families. T Mobile has 187 00:12:24.759 --> 00:12:28.399 committed a supporting active duty veterans and military spouses visit 188 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.080 T mobile dot com slash military to learn more. 189 00:12:31.159 --> 00:12:34.519 Disabled Vet Kyle Cornwell saw a shivering Vietnam vet on 190 00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.639 a Sacramento sidewalk and gave him his coat and meal. 191 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.519 That single act grew into a grassroots movement. Kyle now 192 00:12:42.639 --> 00:12:46.399 leads weekly outreach walks bringing essentials like tense, water and 193 00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:50.840 emotional support to dozens of unhoused veterans. He's partnered with 194 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.879 local shelters and pushes for a systemic change in veteran 195 00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:58.200 housing policy. Kyle, who once felt invisible, has become a 196 00:12:58.279 --> 00:13:01.360 lifeline for so many today. Sixty seconds of Service is 197 00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.200 brought to you by Prevagen. Prevagen is the number one 198 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.480 pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You can find Prevagen in 199 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.600 the vitamin aisle in stores everywhere. For more great veteran stories, 200 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:14.559 just go to National Defense Network dot com. 201 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:18.480 This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in 202 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:21.879 this edition is Hilbert Margol. He's a US Army veteran 203 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:24.399 of World War Two, serving as a one hundred and 204 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:27.960 five millimeter howitzer gunner in the forty second Infantry Division. 205 00:13:28.960 --> 00:13:32.399 After that first combat in southern France, the forty second 206 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:36.639 Division kept pushing east. Margol tells us what the aftermath 207 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.639 of that fighting looked like. As the division moved along 208 00:13:40.240 --> 00:13:42.960 and eventually moved all the way to the Rhine. 209 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:45.799 I guess we were in that position for maybe a 210 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.720 couple of weeks, and then we were ordered to pull 211 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:54.759 out and head north. That's when we went through different towns, villages, 212 00:13:55.799 --> 00:13:59.080 and as each one was captured. Then we would ride 213 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:05.320 through the village of town city and see various damages 214 00:14:06.360 --> 00:14:12.519 bombed out areas we never knew which rubble was from 215 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:17.879 our firing or from aerial bombing or tanks, and then 216 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.360 we would move forward. As the infantry moved to the 217 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:24.639 next village of town, we followed right behind them, but 218 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.159 at some point went to the Hurtkan Forest. I remember 219 00:14:28.639 --> 00:14:33.080 we had a couple of snow days there in the forest, 220 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.720 and then from there we moved forward, crossed over the 221 00:14:37.840 --> 00:14:43.799 Rhine River into Germany, and that would have been late March, 222 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:48.399 I think late March the twenty fourth, nineteen forty five. 223 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.440 Margo also explains how the artillery guys were placed in 224 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.240 one of the safest possible positions during combat, and he 225 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.240 shares some more about where the forty second Infantry division 226 00:14:59.279 --> 00:15:01.399 went as it advanced into Germany. 227 00:15:01.879 --> 00:15:05.759 Well, we were very lucky because I'd say we were 228 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:11.039 always on the outskirts behind the infantry, so we never 229 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:14.159 saw any German tanks except those that were knocked out 230 00:15:14.679 --> 00:15:17.679 on the side of the road. We saw a number 231 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:24.840 of a lot of German soldiers deceased, some Allied soldiers, 232 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:30.759 also American soldiers deceased, a lot of dead horses because 233 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:35.840 when the German army ran out a fuel, they grabbed 234 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:40.080 whatever horses they could find, hooked them up to pull 235 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:46.799 their vehicles, and they're howarzers, any tank guns, whatever they had, 236 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:53.279 and we moved on different Wurtzburg Schweinfurt was another experience, 237 00:15:54.399 --> 00:16:01.480 then Nuremberg. After Nuremberg, we actually took over a German 238 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.799 air base in a suburb of Nuremberg called firth if 239 00:16:07.919 --> 00:16:11.919 U r THH and then from there the next military 240 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:13.279 objective was Munich. 241 00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:16.200 But it was late April nineteen forty five when Margol 242 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:18.639 and the rest of the forty second Division made their 243 00:16:18.639 --> 00:16:22.279 way through Germany and were overcome by a powerful and 244 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.399 unusual smell that they then investigated. 245 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:31.399 And early Sunday morning, April twenty ninth, nineteen forty five. 246 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.399 We were riding on a two lane country road towards Munich, 247 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:41.320 and I remember seeing road signs. At one point, the 248 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.480 largest sign said dach Haw, meaning the village city of Dachau, Germany. 249 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:53.639 Below that was smaller arrow signs in both directions, and 250 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:57.799 one was pointing in the direction of Munich, and it 251 00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:02.799 had Munchren on it, which in Germany Munich number of kilometers. 252 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.559 We converted it to miles and realized we were eight 253 00:17:07.680 --> 00:17:12.319 nine miles north of Munich, Germany. A short time later 254 00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:15.400 we got orders to pull over on the right side 255 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:19.160 of the road. The smallest cleared area in the wooded 256 00:17:19.200 --> 00:17:22.839 area where our four hours is were the closest together 257 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:27.880 they had ever been. Everybody smelled a very strong holder, 258 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:31.880 and we had a number of fire missions towards Munich. 259 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.640 One of our jeep drivers came by and sat on 260 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:38.880 the woods on the left side of the road. There 261 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:43.480 must be a chemical factory creating this very strong older. 262 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:47.359 My brother Howard came over to me. He said, no, 263 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:51.039 he don't think it's a chemical factory. What it reminds 264 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.720 him of when we were youngsters, our mother would go 265 00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:58.920 to a meat market and buy a freshly killed chicken, 266 00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:02.359 take it home, hold it over the gas flame of 267 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:06.160 the stove in the kitchen to burn off any remaining 268 00:18:06.319 --> 00:18:09.960 pin feathers from the chicken. He said, in so doing 269 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.559 it would burn some of the skin and the fat 270 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:16.240 of the chicken. He said, that's what the older reminds 271 00:18:16.319 --> 00:18:21.599 him of. I asked my gum, Sergeant Tom Rogers' permission 272 00:18:22.079 --> 00:18:25.039 for Howard and I if we could go over through 273 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:28.799 the woods find the source of what causing this very 274 00:18:28.839 --> 00:18:33.240 small odor. He said, okay, go ahead, don't stay long 275 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:35.240 because we don't know. We just had a lull and 276 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:37.799 fire missions. We don't know how long we're going to 277 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.359 be there. So Howard and I took off went through 278 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.039 the woods. It took us about ten minutes to get 279 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.759 through the woods. Some people asked, well, how could you 280 00:18:46.799 --> 00:18:50.240 go that quick? And I said, well, the differences between 281 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:54.440 woods in this country and over there was people that 282 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:58.599 lived around the woods, probably almost daily would go into 283 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:03.839 the woods looking for twigs, branches, limbs to take home 284 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:08.400 to use his firewood. So the floor of the woods 285 00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:12.359 was clear, so you could go pretty quick, different from 286 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:13.079 this country. 287 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.519 That's Hilbert Margol, He's a US Army veteran of World 288 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.759 War Two and helped to liberate Docou concentration Camp. Much 289 00:19:20.799 --> 00:19:24.559 more on that straight ahead. I'm Greg Corumbus, and this 290 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:30.640 is Veterans' Chronicles. This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. 291 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:34.160 Our guest in this edition is Hilbert Margol. He's a 292 00:19:34.279 --> 00:19:37.799 US Army veteran of World War Two, serving as a 293 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:40.799 one hundred and five millimeter howitzer gunner in the forty 294 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.119 second Infantry Division. A moment ago, you heard how a 295 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.279 strange and overpowering smell struck the division as it made 296 00:19:48.279 --> 00:19:51.400 its way to Munich. We now pick up that story 297 00:19:51.559 --> 00:19:55.160 as Margol investigates the source of the smell and tells 298 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:56.200 us what he discovered. 299 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.839 The first thing we saw was a wide open area 300 00:19:59.400 --> 00:20:03.039 and we saw a lot of railroad box cars. We 301 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:06.240 crawled over between two box cars in the middle of 302 00:20:06.279 --> 00:20:10.960 the train. First thing box car on our right. About 303 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:14.279 four or five of the box cars, the sliding doors 304 00:20:14.319 --> 00:20:17.759 were wide open, and the first one on our right 305 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:21.680 was unique because it was the only one that had 306 00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:25.880 a deceased prisoner's legs hanging out of the box car. 307 00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.480 We had a little Brownie box camera. We had liberated 308 00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:33.079 a couple of weeks earlier. The only film we had 309 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.519 was what was inside the camera, so we hadn't taken 310 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:40.720 any pictures yet. We didn't know how many films we had, 311 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.640 but we took that picture because that was unique, different 312 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:51.119 from the other box cars. I used that picture and presentations, 313 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:54.880 which I do quite often. Anyhow, we looked at some 314 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.599 of the other box cars. Every one of them was 315 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:03.559 just filled jam filled with seized prisoners. We later learned 316 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:08.160 this train was called the death train. Twenty days earlier, 317 00:21:09.279 --> 00:21:14.400 it left Buchenwald concentration Camp with about twenty five hundred 318 00:21:14.480 --> 00:21:18.599 Jewish prisoners. Took them twenty days to get from there 319 00:21:19.559 --> 00:21:22.160 to where they ended up the day before we arrived, 320 00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.759 because sometimes they had to stop to get cold. Sometimes 321 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:29.640 they had to stop for the trucks to be repaired 322 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.680 so they could move forward. We got there and then 323 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:36.839 we noticed there was a two story building close by. 324 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:40.279 We saw some other soldiers go through a gate in 325 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.079 the middle of that building, so we followed them. The 326 00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:49.400 gate had the words on it our bite mach free 327 00:21:49.759 --> 00:21:53.759 in German, which meant work makes you free. So we 328 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.599 just followed the other soldiers through the gate. We looked 329 00:21:57.599 --> 00:21:59.960 around it was a wide open area, which we left 330 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.400 learned was the area that five point thirty every morning, 331 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:09.079 thirty two thousand prisoners had to fall off a roll 332 00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:13.799 call every early every morning. We didn't see any of 333 00:22:13.799 --> 00:22:16.920 the prisoners because they were told the day before that 334 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:21.400 the SS general in charge. Because next to the concentration 335 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:26.759 camp was a much larger German Army SS training camp 336 00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:33.640 that controlled the concentration camp. So we looked around and 337 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:40.000 in various places we saw stacks of bodies, naked bodies 338 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:46.880 stacked like cordwood here there. We didn't understand what we 339 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:51.039 were seeing because we didn't know what happened, Why were 340 00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:52.759 they doing that, what were they It was like a 341 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:57.119 Hollywood movie set. We later learned after the war that 342 00:22:58.359 --> 00:23:02.599 the Germans had run out of Without cold, they could 343 00:23:02.599 --> 00:23:06.799 not operate the ovens, so that's why these stacks of 344 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:10.440 bodies were there, because they couldn't cremate them. 345 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:15.960 Margo also shared plenty of other memories about what he saw, heard, smelled, 346 00:23:16.000 --> 00:23:20.599 and experienced as the nazis unspeakable treatment of their prisoners 347 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:21.519 became clear. 348 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.880 No, because they were all in the barracks, we never 349 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:29.079 saw i am. We learned later that of the thirty 350 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:34.200 two thousand prisoners, and some of the barracks were strictly 351 00:23:34.279 --> 00:23:41.160 Jewish prisoners, others were Russian prisoners, Russian soldiers that were prisoners, 352 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:48.440 and people from other parts of Europe, gypsies, whatever they 353 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:53.440 call them, romas. And I've read all kinds of stories 354 00:23:54.079 --> 00:23:58.240 about what happened before we got there, and the one 355 00:23:58.519 --> 00:24:02.400 book that I two books that I paid attention to 356 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:09.480 because I know they're factual based on the authors and contents. 357 00:24:10.599 --> 00:24:15.480 And the Germans for each barracks, they appointed a prisoner 358 00:24:16.480 --> 00:24:20.279 in charge of the barracks because they didn't want to 359 00:24:20.319 --> 00:24:23.279 deal with the prisoners on a twenty four hour basis, 360 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.400 so they appoored them. Like prison system in this country 361 00:24:27.480 --> 00:24:30.839 used to have trustees to be in charge of a 362 00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:34.319 certain number of prisoners, the Germans did the same thing. 363 00:24:34.839 --> 00:24:36.920 I'm trying to think of what they called them. I'll 364 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:39.839 think of it in a minute. They were the ones 365 00:24:40.680 --> 00:24:45.720 in charge of the prisoners, and they were prisoners, and 366 00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:49.240 they were much tougher on the prisoners than the German 367 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.839 soldiers were because they wanted to show the German soldiers 368 00:24:54.319 --> 00:24:58.359 that they were helping them, so they really were tough 369 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:02.960 on the prisoners. And doing so, they got better treatment, 370 00:25:03.160 --> 00:25:08.799 they got better food, or doing that. I've read stories 371 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:14.640 that when our units came in to dock How concentration camp, 372 00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:19.119 some of the prisoners came out of the barracks. Of course, 373 00:25:19.880 --> 00:25:23.200 we were there early Sunday morning, April twenty ninth, nineteen 374 00:25:23.319 --> 00:25:27.599 forty five. The official surrender took place at two point 375 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.200 thirty that afternoon. By that time we were on our 376 00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.640 way to Munich. These stories claimed that some of the 377 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:38.839 prisoners took the rifles from the infantry guys to kill 378 00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:43.839 German soldiers. Not true because inside the prisoner camp there 379 00:25:43.880 --> 00:25:49.519 were no German soldiers. There were these trustees. That's who 380 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:53.559 they killed. They were prisoners, but they didn't like them. 381 00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.720 The other prisoners didn't like them at all, and that's 382 00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:01.759 who they killed. When the forty fifth came in, they 383 00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:07.680 came into the German Army camp SS training camp, which 384 00:26:07.759 --> 00:26:12.039 was much larger and next door the trains. The first 385 00:26:12.119 --> 00:26:17.079 three or four cars of that train railroad cars were 386 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:22.279 open cars filled with dead bodies. And the first forty 387 00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:27.279 fifth Division soldiers that saw all these dead bodies, a 388 00:26:27.279 --> 00:26:31.400 lot of them were wearing these pajama type striped uniforms, 389 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:37.880 and they rounded up. There was about fifty German young 390 00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:43.640 soldiers Wehrmacht. They rounded them up, and they ran and 391 00:26:43.720 --> 00:26:48.119 set them up like a firing squad, and they fired 392 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.880 and they killed all but three of them. Three survived. 393 00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:56.960 And when General Patton heard about that, he ordered all 394 00:26:57.079 --> 00:27:01.640 pictures to be destroyed, which they were not. We have 395 00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:05.720 pictures of that. I have pictures that that I acquired, 396 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.920 and that's what happened. 397 00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:13.119 As we mentioned earlier, Margol is Jewish, and the reality 398 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:16.599 of the Holocaust has impacted him deeply ever since that 399 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.079 day at Dachau, but he says at the time he 400 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.880 and other troops were mostly unaware of who the concentration 401 00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:26.599