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<v Speaker 1>Bill Cunningham, The Great America. Welcome to Pete Rose Day

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<v Speaker 1>in the city of Cincinnati. It is May fourteenth, and

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to celebrate the life and times of Pete

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<v Speaker 1>Rose tonight at the ballpark. And of course he was

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<v Speaker 1>admitted back into baseball taking off the ineligible list a

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<v Speaker 1>day or two ago by the Commissioner. My view, that

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<v Speaker 1>is pathetic. It's cool to have a guy die about

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<v Speaker 1>six months ago, and now the memories light the corners

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<v Speaker 1>of my mind, and let's face it, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>get the perspective of the great Hall of Famer Marty Brenneman.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, tonight the first pitch is seven fourteen PM tonight,

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<v Speaker 1>White Sox, a little Dollo on the Mount, and Marty's

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<v Speaker 1>going to be the MC starting I think about six

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<v Speaker 1>thirty and Marty Brownman and welcome again to the Bill

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<v Speaker 1>Cunningham Show. Can you tell the American people, the forty

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<v Speaker 1>thousand fans accumulating and congregating to go to the Great

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<v Speaker 1>American Ballpark? What time to get there? I would think

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit early. And then secondly, what's going to

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<v Speaker 1>happen in between six thirty and seven fourteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they're going to the gates are open at five

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<v Speaker 2>point fifteen Bill, and that's a good move.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's a.

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<v Speaker 2>Way ahead of when the actual Rose memory ceremonies will

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<v Speaker 2>begin around six thirty. And I think in a early

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<v Speaker 2>class move, the club is giving to everybody who attends tonight.

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<v Speaker 2>Oftentimes it's the first twenty thousand or the first fifteen thousand,

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever the case might be, the club is going

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<v Speaker 2>to give out a facsimile jersey like the one Pete

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<v Speaker 2>wore during the seventy five seventy six Big Red Machine

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<v Speaker 2>World Championship years. At six thirty or thereabouts, I will

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<v Speaker 2>oversee Q and A with Barry Larkin, with Ken Griffy Senior,

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<v Speaker 2>with Eric Davis, and with George Foster, and basically the

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<v Speaker 2>questions are going to deal with Pete Rose the player,

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Rose the teammate, and Pete Rose the manager. And

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<v Speaker 2>those four guys really present a great cross section because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Larkin, Larkin grew up watching Rose in the

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<v Speaker 2>Big Red Machine teams play, and then eventually Pete became

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<v Speaker 2>Berry's first manager in the Big leagues, and then Griffy

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<v Speaker 2>was a teammate of his and later a coach, and

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<v Speaker 2>then Foster, of course, is one of the main stays

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<v Speaker 2>of those great clubs in the middle seventies and playing

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<v Speaker 2>with Pete and Eric Davis was both a teammate and

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<v Speaker 2>a guy who Pete managed when Pete was player manager

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<v Speaker 2>of the ball club. So that's a good that's a

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<v Speaker 2>good mix. Then they're going to have I know, the

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<v Speaker 2>Western Hills I don't know, it's lee club or a

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<v Speaker 2>singing group from Western Hills High School where Pete went.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll sing the national anthem. Members of the family will

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<v Speaker 2>throw out the first stitch. There will be a fourteen second,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, a fourteen second memory to commemorate or to

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<v Speaker 2>think about your own personal thought of what Pete meant

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<v Speaker 2>to the city and what he meant to this game.

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<v Speaker 2>And then of course seven fourteen again the fourteen comes

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<v Speaker 2>up his number to kick off the ballgame.

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<v Speaker 1>When was the last time you saw Pete rose.

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<v Speaker 2>Bill. I'm tried to remember when the last time it

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<v Speaker 2>was that I saw him. He passed away in September.

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<v Speaker 2>I saw him, No, I saw him on New Year's

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<v Speaker 2>Eve of twenty and twenty four, because he and I

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<v Speaker 2>were together for the second straight year at the Hard

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<v Speaker 2>Rock Casino to make an appearance on New Year's Eve

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<v Speaker 2>that might have been. That might have been. I talked

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<v Speaker 2>to him a lot on the phone, but I rarely

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<v Speaker 2>ever got a chance to see him other than when

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<v Speaker 2>we were thrown together to deal with a function.

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<v Speaker 1>Any day with Pete Rose was a good day, correct,

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<v Speaker 1>whether it was on the phone in person, bubbling, incredible personality,

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<v Speaker 1>fun to be with. What was your reaction when Rob

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<v Speaker 1>Manford finally said, I guess about six seven months after

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<v Speaker 1>Pete's death, Okay, we'll take him off the ineligible list

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<v Speaker 1>along with the other fifteen. What was your initial reaction.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not a big Rob Manford fan. I think

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<v Speaker 2>there's an incredible level of hypocrisy involving this whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've made the comment over years and years and

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<v Speaker 2>years that you can hardly turn around at the Hall

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<v Speaker 2>of Fame in Cooperstown without seeing something that Pete did

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<v Speaker 2>on the field as a player that enhanced the interest

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<v Speaker 2>of the game of baseball. So they didn't hesitate using

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<v Speaker 2>Rows as a player to uplift the image of the

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<v Speaker 2>game and the eyes of the fans and many thousands

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<v Speaker 2>that went through the Hall of Fame in Cooperstown every

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<v Speaker 2>year and every day, but yet he was not a

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<v Speaker 2>lot good enough to be in. And I believe me

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<v Speaker 2>when I tell you, going back to the day that

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<v Speaker 2>he was suspended from the game, I agreed one hundred

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<v Speaker 2>percent with it. I went full circle over on the

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<v Speaker 2>on the ensuing years. But I agreed with it because

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<v Speaker 2>that's the only rule in baseball that's on the wall

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<v Speaker 2>of every clubhouse in Major League Baseball, all thirty all

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<v Speaker 2>thirty franchises. And he broke that rule, and he should

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<v Speaker 2>have been suspended, but not to the extent that he

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<v Speaker 2>ended up being suspended. And the hypocrisy of it now

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<v Speaker 2>is that within a matter of months. I mean, this

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<v Speaker 2>is the most transparent thing I've ever seen. There's no

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<v Speaker 2>element of cloak and dagger here trying to hide something,

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<v Speaker 2>because as you said, it was a matter of months

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<v Speaker 2>he passes, and now they announced that he's off the

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<v Speaker 2>ineligible list. I'm I'm just not a big fan. Granted,

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<v Speaker 2>he should have been suspended. Secondly, and quite honestly, I

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<v Speaker 2>do believe this, And I told the Bill the day

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<v Speaker 2>he was called the Voice Palm Beach in nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 2>nine to meet with Peter you Barrot and Bart your

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<v Speaker 2>Moody Commissioner nationally President, and they laid out all the

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<v Speaker 2>evidence they had, and the evidence was irrefutable. You couldn't

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<v Speaker 2>there was And I think that had he laid his

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<v Speaker 2>he fell on the mercy of the court and said,

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<v Speaker 2>everything you got is true, I am guilty as hell.

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<v Speaker 2>He would have been suspended for a period of time

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<v Speaker 2>and we wouldn't even be talking about the possibility of

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<v Speaker 2>him going into Hall of Fame today because he would

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<v Speaker 2>have been in it years ago. But I think Pete

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<v Speaker 2>made him mad because in face of overwhelming evidence that

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<v Speaker 2>he did do it and his continued insistence that he didn't,

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<v Speaker 2>they finally said somewhat vindictively. And I know they would

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<v Speaker 2>never admit this because there's no not an ounce of

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<v Speaker 2>vindictiveness in Rob Manfred's body. Okay, you're going to continually

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<v Speaker 2>lie to us. We're going to show you why you shouldn't.

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<v Speaker 2>And I really believe that's the way that whole thing.

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<v Speaker 2>I told him, I said, had you admitted it the

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<v Speaker 2>first day they confronted you with, you know, it's unfortunate

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<v Speaker 2>the way things played out.

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<v Speaker 1>I had on Keith O'Brien and wrote the book Charlie hustle,

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<v Speaker 1>the Golden Age of baseball. Friend of mine, Yeah, good.

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<v Speaker 1>About a week ago and I said to him, what

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<v Speaker 1>was the lowest point of Pete Rose's life? And he

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<v Speaker 1>related to me a conversation he had with Pete in

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<v Speaker 1>which in October of nineteen ninety the last glory run

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<v Speaker 1>of the Reds hopefully they'll be one soon, but it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't look like it, in which the Reds were just

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<v Speaker 1>taking apart the Oakland A's and Pete was in a

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<v Speaker 1>prison and a little bit of an area where other

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<v Speaker 1>federal inmates were in Marion, and Pete was saying, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I would have done this, I would have done that.

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<v Speaker 1>Look at this, look at that. He said. Near the end,

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<v Speaker 1>he went back to his to sell and he laid

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<v Speaker 1>in bed trying to get the wrap up of the

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<v Speaker 1>game Benziger's catch on the transistor radio and he couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>quite catch it inside the federal prison, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>Pete Rose looked at the ceiling in October as the

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<v Speaker 1>Reds clinched in Oakland. You had a magnificent call of

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<v Speaker 1>that occurring. And he said Pete's mind was just collapsing

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<v Speaker 1>around the idea that he saw Jethrow he saw Lark,

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<v Speaker 1>and he saw Benziger, he saw it Rio. By the way,

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<v Speaker 1>Jose Rio termed sixty years old yesterday talk about time

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<v Speaker 1>Fly and Pete said, that was the lowest point of

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<v Speaker 1>my life. Can you imagine if you go from September

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<v Speaker 1>the eleventh, nineteen eighty five to about four years later

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<v Speaker 1>August ninth, or maybe October of nineteen ninety think of

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<v Speaker 1>the road that Pete Rose traveled from forty one ninety

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<v Speaker 1>two to federal prison staring at the ceiling in the dark,

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<v Speaker 1>trying to get the call of that game.

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<v Speaker 2>Unbelievable, it really is it, Without the question, it's incredible.

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<v Speaker 2>And by the way, Keith O'Brien's book's the best book

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<v Speaker 2>that's ever been written about Pete.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, for those who were the best down and you

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<v Speaker 1>mentioned what happened in West Palm Beach with you Ba

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<v Speaker 1>Off and I think Fay Vincent was in the room

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<v Speaker 1>and others, and Pete's character was such he could not

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<v Speaker 1>admit to agent that there weren't there. At least two

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<v Speaker 1>other occasions were Joe Morgan while he's doing the ESPN game,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, with John Miller, et cetera. Joe Morgan and

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<v Speaker 1>others had Seilea getting close to saying, okay, do this,

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<v Speaker 1>do that, We'll let you back in, and Pete couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>take the next step.

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<v Speaker 2>Not exactly. There were at least two occasions where Joe

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<v Speaker 2>had set up a meeting between Bud Ceilely and Pete

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<v Speaker 2>Rose that was just a meeting that no one else

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<v Speaker 2>would have been privy to. It would have been Bud

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<v Speaker 2>sitting across the table from Pete. I don't know whether

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<v Speaker 2>Joe would have been involved in it, probably not knowing

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<v Speaker 2>Joe as well as I did, he wanted no part

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<v Speaker 2>of that. He was Bud Seelely's inside guy. Every time

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<v Speaker 2>Sea League had something that was sensitive at any level

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<v Speaker 2>relative to the game, the first person he would confide

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<v Speaker 2>in was Joe Morgan. Joe had incredible power that people

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<v Speaker 2>never even knew about. And he was also the best

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<v Speaker 2>friend that any human being could ever possibly have. And

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<v Speaker 2>I told Pete a million times everybody should be privileged

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<v Speaker 2>to have a friend like you had in Joe Morgan.

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<v Speaker 2>And every time Joe got this meeting almost certain to

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<v Speaker 2>take place, Pete did or said something that killed it all.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, Pete, my beautiful wife, who is a

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<v Speaker 2>very bright girl as a saying, nobody will do more

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<v Speaker 2>damage to you than you'll do to yourself. And Pete

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<v Speaker 2>was probably the foster boy for that, because if you

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<v Speaker 2>stuck a microphone in his face and you talk to

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<v Speaker 2>him live long enough, he's going to say something that

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<v Speaker 2>will hurt him. And those occasions that Joe had set

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<v Speaker 2>up meetings with Bud Seely, on both occasions Pete did

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<v Speaker 2>something that angered the commissioner and he called him off.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you saw last night. I'm watching ESPN.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Tim Kirchin is this fabulous cason almost the

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<v Speaker 1>baseball and he's been on that so called Veterans Committee before,

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<v Speaker 1>and of course people I just said, somebody stop me

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<v Speaker 1>in the hallway and say when's Pete getting in the

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<v Speaker 1>Hall of Fame. And I said, well, I told this

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<v Speaker 1>fine sales executive of ours. We'll see about that, because

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<v Speaker 1>Kirchin said the following He said, I've been on that

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<v Speaker 1>Veterans Committee and it meets, by the way, sometime in

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<v Speaker 1>the middle of twenty twenty seven to announce the results

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<v Speaker 1>in twenty in December of twenty twenty seven, which is

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<v Speaker 1>what two and a half years away, and he said,

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<v Speaker 1>there's sixteen of us. He said, and they're all Hall

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<v Speaker 1>of famers or individuals like me or General Manager Tony

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<v Speaker 1>Perez is on the Veterans Committee. I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>he still lives. He was, And Tim said, look, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>inclined to vote yes, but I know that the sentiment

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<v Speaker 1>is against Pete and it takes seventy five percent of

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<v Speaker 1>the vote, twelve of sixteen. I'm inclined to vote yes.

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<v Speaker 1>And then he related a conversation he'd briefly had with

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<v Speaker 1>Frank Robinson. Statue ten years here, fabulous Hall of famer

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<v Speaker 1>and Frank Robinson I said to Tim, this is years

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<v Speaker 1>ago before Frank passed away, that you know, Pete Rose

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<v Speaker 1>should never be in the Hall of Fame. And to me,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought, Frank Robinson veda Pinson, Pete Rose, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>right there together because coming up in sixty three, sixty four,

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<v Speaker 1>sixty five. But for those who say, well this means

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<v Speaker 1>Pete's going to be in the Hall of Fame, they

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<v Speaker 1>meet every three years, and what is your sense, I

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<v Speaker 1>guess as a Hall of Fame or you could be

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<v Speaker 1>on the Veterans Committee. At some point they asked eminent

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<v Speaker 1>individuals of the game. I know what your answer would

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<v Speaker 1>be would be yes. But for those who say, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a short step. We will be announced tonight that

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<v Speaker 1>Pete Rose is in the Hall of no Explain the process,

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<v Speaker 1>the difficulties Pete Rose would have in front of that committee.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, I've felt and Jim knows a whole

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<v Speaker 2>lot more about it than I do, but I felt

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<v Speaker 2>that it is being presented to the Veterans Committee might

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<v Speaker 2>well stand a better chance ants of him being inducted

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<v Speaker 2>now then it would have been back in the day

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<v Speaker 2>because of the anger that a lot of the people

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<v Speaker 2>that were influential in Cooper's town expressed over the fact that,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, it took him all that time to admit

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<v Speaker 2>that he bet on baseball. But you know, maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>not going to be the walk along the Primrose Lane

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<v Speaker 2>that we all thought it was going to be. If

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<v Speaker 2>these people still feel and you know the guys that

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<v Speaker 2>when I went in in two thousand and it's hard

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<v Speaker 2>to believe it's twenty five years ago, but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they were all up in arms because they'd gotten win

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<v Speaker 2>that I was going to say something about Pete and

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<v Speaker 2>betch came to me. Johnny came to me the day

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<v Speaker 2>before the induction ceremony said they don't shoot the messenger.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, okay. He said, Bob Feller and Ralph Kinner

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<v Speaker 2>have both said that if you mentioned Pete, they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to get up the walk off the stage. And I said, Johnny,

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<v Speaker 2>go back and tell them how to give a damn

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<v Speaker 2>what they did. If they wanted to be stripped naked

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<v Speaker 2>in defiance of what I said, than the hell with them.

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<v Speaker 2>And the next day I made a comment about Pete

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<v Speaker 2>very assertively that he should be in the Hall of Fame,

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<v Speaker 2>and moved on. They were concerned over the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>this the year before, when Mike Schmidt went in in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety nine, that he went on for five minutes

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<v Speaker 2>about how Pete should be in the Hall of Fame,

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<v Speaker 2>and that angered the dickens out of them, and so

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<v Speaker 2>but I did what I was going to do, and

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<v Speaker 2>nobody got up and walked off the stage. But those

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<v Speaker 2>were the two guys that were that carried the torch

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<v Speaker 2>of defiance against Pete ever being in. Propeller and Ralph.

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<v Speaker 2>Obviously both of them are gone now, and maybe they

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<v Speaker 2>are people like Robbie who was also gone, But maybe

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<v Speaker 2>there are more that we don't know about that are

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<v Speaker 2>just as opposed to Pete being in the Hall of

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<v Speaker 2>Fame today as they were back then.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know about a minute remaining, Marty Brenneman, what

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<v Speaker 1>is the reason? What is the sense? Forty thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>tonight and they could have sold another twenty thousand tickets.

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<v Speaker 1>Pete Rose is dead. We had the ceremony at the

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<v Speaker 1>Great American Ballpark in September October when he died. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>what is the hold that Pete Rose has on Cincinnati?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think Bill, and I've said it all the

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<v Speaker 2>years that I've had the privilege of living in this

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<v Speaker 2>town and staying here after countless numbers of opportunities to

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<v Speaker 2>go to other places in Major League Baseball, and ply

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<v Speaker 2>my trade, this is the most provincial city on earth,

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<v Speaker 2>especially if you come from the outside. And if you

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<v Speaker 2>come from the outside like al Michaels did before me

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<v Speaker 2>and like I did, and other people and other walks

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<v Speaker 2>of life, they reserve judgment on you. They don't jump

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<v Speaker 2>on your bandwagon, but they don't get off of it quickly.

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<v Speaker 2>They wait and see how you can induct yourself, and

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<v Speaker 2>once they decide that you are one of them. It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>if you and I were brothers, I can call you anything.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to call you the most vile, but the

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<v Speaker 2>guy who's a friend of ours standing there, he better

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<v Speaker 2>not do it. And so this is kind of off

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<v Speaker 2>the beaten path. But you know, Pete was born and

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<v Speaker 2>raised here, and Pete people prided themselves when this guy

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<v Speaker 2>was when he had proven himself to be an outstanding,

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<v Speaker 2>elite Major League Baseball player, and he continued to knock

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<v Speaker 2>the doors down on records and he ultimately became the

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<v Speaker 2>all time hit king. People loved that, and people loved

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<v Speaker 2>the fact that he went to West Hills High School

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<v Speaker 2>and he was born on that side of town, and

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<v Speaker 2>so there was nothing that he could do that would

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<v Speaker 2>diminish their love and affection for him. All through the

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<v Speaker 2>gambling thing and anything else that had come into play

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<v Speaker 2>that was a negative factor in peace life. People would

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<v Speaker 2>accept the fact and acknowledge the fact, but at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, they would always quick to say, it doesn't

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<v Speaker 2>make any difference. He's one of us, and we love

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Rose, and I think that basically is what it's

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<v Speaker 2>all about here, and they'll continue to love his memory

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<v Speaker 2>as much as they love the person. He was just

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<v Speaker 2>a special individual who had a lot of warts, but

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<v Speaker 2>those warts were accepted by anybody who crossed paths with

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<v Speaker 2>him for the most part.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh tonight, Tim, Marty, thank you so much. We've discussed this.

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<v Speaker 1>I've only been on the radio forty three years. You've

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<v Speaker 1>been on a little bit longer than that. And it's

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<v Speaker 1>a constant theme of Pete Rose. It doesn't change. And

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think because of the formatics of getting into

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<v Speaker 1>the Hall of Fame is going to change for the

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<v Speaker 1>next several years. Maybe three years from now, maybe six,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe nine, maybe twelve, I don't know. But yeah, it's sad,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm angry at Baseball for what they did to

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<v Speaker 1>Pete as far as not letting them in. It's pathetic.

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<v Speaker 1>It's cruel to do this right after he dies. It

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<v Speaker 1>just doesn't sit well. But Marty, thank you. And I

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<v Speaker 1>fear we're going to do this again at some point.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like they probably we will. Bill all right, Marty,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you so much. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, Pal, thank you, thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>So Now let's continue news coming up. And you couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>make it up. But Shakespeare could not write the twist

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<v Speaker 1>and turns of the life and times of Peter Edward Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>the highs of highs and the lowest of low's. And

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<v Speaker 1>now he's dead. And we cannot change what major League

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<v Speaker 1>Baseball did to Pete by being so cruel. What's changed

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<v Speaker 1>the last six or seven months. Nothing, but after he's dead,

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<v Speaker 1>they want to kick him one more time. Let's continue

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<v Speaker 1>with more. Bill Cunningham News Radio seven hundred w ELD