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Speaker 1: Hm, hey, we are live. What's up, guys, Welcome to

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Freshing podcast Man. I've got a special so for you

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guys today We're going to be having a great debate

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on religion, Islam versus Christianity. Let's get into a guys.

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Speaker 2: Ras ship.

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Speaker 3: Don't look down you're doing.

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Speaker 2: I'm falling out of the state.

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Speaker 1: The battle hells and we all have with you guys.

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Welcome to the fresh Year Podcast Man. We got a

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special one today for you guys. We're gonna have a

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religion debate Islam versus Christianity for quicking house. We get

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into a show though, first and foremost, Roma dot com

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slash Fresh Fit Cousclub dot tv. As you guys know,

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that's where you support free speech and support the team.

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Couseclub dot tv is the main place of support. So

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join up guys where we have a bunch of exclusive

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content find the scenes for you guys over there. And

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uh yeah, guys, we got four guys in the house.

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Four special guests in the house matter of fact, which

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I'll have real quickly go through. We got e Jazz

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from Uh. We got Daniel Koka jew uh, and then

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we got Sam Shamun and we got Jay Dyer as well.

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I apologize if I my lash if I butchered the name

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a little bit there. But we're gonna be doing a

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debate here on religion, guys, Islam versus Christianity. But I'm

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gonna have you guys personally introduce yourselves. I mean, I

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know who you guys are, but I guys want you

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guys to introduce yourselves to my audience. We can start

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with Ejazz from e F.

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Speaker 4: YEP, Hijazz from e F Dawa, and the I three Institute.

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I hope that you can follow all other accounts. I'm

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join us on Twitter. I'm a big fun and followed

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by the Daniel and I look forward to seeing how

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this debate goes.

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Speaker 1: Daniels on you sure.

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Speaker 2: My name is Daniel Hairachu. I am a debater. I

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have a channel Muslim Skeptic on YouTube. You can also

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find me on Rumble and I found it muslim skeptic

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dot com, where we dedicate a lot of time to

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defending Islam against intellectual challenges Christianity included. So check that out.

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Speaker 1: Happy to be here, awesome, And then can you tell

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them real quick about Jake because I know some of

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them were expecting Jake to come in, but you could

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plan it probably explain the best.

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Speaker 2: Sure, Yeah, Jake had a last minute issue that came

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up and he's not in the country, so he couldn't

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make it, unfortunately. But yeah, that's the we have brother

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he Jazz here to replace him, and you just stepped

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up at the last minute. So appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for coming brother. And then Sam, well.

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Speaker 5: Sam Shimun. I used to write for Answering Islam dot info,

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but they stopped publishing new articles years ago, so I

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started a blog, Answering Islam Blog dot WordPress dot com.

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You'll find me on Shimunion. That's my YouTube channel. Hopefully

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it stays up, but I'm also on Rumble Answering Islam.

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So that's pretty much my introduction. Not much to say

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besides that, anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're coming on, man. You were highly requested by

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a lot of the people, so like me, Yeah, what

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was that.

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Speaker 5: I said, A bald beast like me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of my Christian supporters definitely asked me

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to bring you on. So I'm glad that you're here.

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And then Jay, just introduce yourself to the people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks, glad to be here. I do a lot

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of debates. That's just part of what I do host

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the fourth hour of Alex Jones every Friday. I've been

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doing that for the last four years. I've written several

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books on Hollywood symbolism, philosophy, theology. So we do all

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of that and you can find me at my website,

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Jay's Analysis and then on all the social media's under

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jayder All.

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Speaker 1: Right, awesome, thank you so much. Guys. So real quick,

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we're going to have Mo read a quick word from

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our sponsor, and then we're going to get right into

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the debate. Watch. I'll explain the breakdown of debate for

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the audience real quick. Go ahead, we'll take it away,

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make it quick, and then we'll get right to it.

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Speaker 5: That moment I walk by.

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Speaker 4: You, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: All right, awesome, so thank you very much. So guys,

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the way it's gonna go is this, I'll explain it

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real quick for you. We're gonna have five minute opening

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between both parties. Team Islam is gonna go first. Then

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we're gonna go into topic one, which is theology the

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Trinity versus the dar Weed then we're gonna go into

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authenticity of scripture, which is round two, and then we're

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gonna do morality Bible versus the Quran on human rights. Okay,

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we're gonna be doing three four minute rounds. Okay, so

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twelve rounds total, So three four minutes or sorry, yeah,

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three four minute rounds. Is that what we're gonna do, guys. So,

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and each team has four minutes per argument, they're gonna

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be able to go ahead and make the argument uninterrupted

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for four minutes. If one party decides to go two

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minutes or take three minutes, or take the full four minutes,

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it's fine, but it's gonna be between the team. But

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the first round is opening statements, where a Team Islam

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is gonna take it first and they're gonna go for

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five minutes. Then Team Christian is going to go. They're

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gonna go to the first topic, which again is theology

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Trinity versus the da Weed. Second round is going to

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be authenticative scripture, and then third round is going to

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be morality Bible versus of Quran on human rights. And

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we agreed upon all this beforehand. Want to make sure

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that this is even down the middle. I'll be keeping

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time for the squad. I'll be saying thirty seconds and

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then ten seconds when they're running into last thirty and

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ten seconds respectively. And other than that, Team Islam, Team Christiani.

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Are you guys good?

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Speaker 2: Yep?

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Speaker 1: All right, awesome, So I got five minutes on the clock.

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I'm gonna go ahead and turn it to Team Islam

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for opening statements and uh give me one secle to me. Okay,

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all right, Team Islam. You guys ready, yes, scaring, Yeah,

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I got you, We got you, loud and clear. I

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don't assuming Dan, you're gonna take it first? Yes, all right, man,

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timer is on. Go ahead.

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Speaker 2: It's been a lo. Islam is monotheistic. There is only

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one God. This is known as toheed. Christianity is polytheistic

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because Christians worship three separate gods known as the Trinity.

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Christians claim that this is false. The Trinity is not

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three separate gods. The Trinity is three in one. But

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this does this claim make sense? First of all, there's

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a logical contradiction in the Trinity. How can the Father, Son,

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and the Holy Spirit all be one God? But they

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also not be identical beings? The Father is God, the

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Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God. It's all

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one God. But the Father is not the Son, the

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Son is not the Father, and neither of them are

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the Holy Spirits. This is a logical contradiction. The only

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way to solve the contradiction is to admit that the Father, Son,

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and Holy Spirit are three separate Gods, not just one God.

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This is of course polytheism. As Muslims, we challenge Sam

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and Jay to resolve this logical contradiction for the audience.

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Explain to us how the Father, Son and Spirit are

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all one God, but they're not identical with each other,

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and explain it in a way that the average layperson

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can understand it. A layperson can understand that God is one,

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He is one God, and he can have multiple attributes.

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That's Islamic monotheism. I can explain it in one sentence.

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Can Sam and Jay explain the Trinity without resorting to

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a bunch of convoluted gobbledegoup we'll see. What Sam and

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Jay want to do is to try to claim that

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Islam's conception of God is actually just as complicated as

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the Trinity. This is a cheap debate tactic. As we'll see,

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they can't address the logical problem of the Trinity. So

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they want to make it seem like we have the

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same problem in Islam, but we don't. There is nothing

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analogous to the logical problem of the trinity in Islam.

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For example, they might claim that Allah's attributes in Islam

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are incoherent. No they're not. We can all understand how

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a person can have multiple attributes, how God can be

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all knowing, all powerful, merciful, loving, etc. This is not

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hard to understand. Those attributes of God are not seid

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separate people with their own minds. But according to the Bible,

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Jesus and the Father have separate knowledge. They have separate wills.

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For example, in Mark thirteen thirty two in the Bible,

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we read but about that day I ei the day

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of judgment. No one knows, neither the angels in heaven

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nor the Son, but only the Father. So the Son

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doesn't know when the day of judgment is, but the

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Father does know. So this indicates two separate minds. This

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is polytheism. There are more examples that we can cite

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in the rebuttal sections, but keep in mind that in

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the seventh century, the official position of the Church in

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the Third Council of Constantinople. They held the position that

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Jesus has two wills. The Church defined Jesus as having

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two energies and two wills, one divine and one human.

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Two separate wills means two separate minds. This means that

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Jesus and the Father have two separate minds and are

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therefore two separate entities. You either explain this by admitting

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it is polytheism, or you have to give us some

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convoluted explanation of how two minds or three minds are

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still one God. There's nothing analogous to this in Islamic theology.

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Islam says there's one God, he has knowledge, he has will,

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one will, one knowledge. These things are not divided between

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multiple persons or energies or anything like that. And all

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of this Islamic monotheism is clearly expressed in the Quran.

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By the way, contrast this with the Bible. Jesus is

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meant to be God, all knowing and the only teacher

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to the disciples, but the Jesus of the Gospels doesn't

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describe the doctrines of the Trinity. We have to rely

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on Paul and the Church fathers to explain what the

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Trinity is. That's strange. If God wants us to know him,

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believe in him, lay the foundation for a general understanding

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of him, why would he leave that to different authors

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at different times, in different places, over several centuries, such

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that when God is finally described in scripture, it results

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in a mystery, and we need all these church councils

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to figure it out. The way that Christians have come

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to us understand the Trinity is what we'd expect if

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God did not reveal the doctrines of the Trinity. On

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the other hand, that God in the Qur'an revealed four

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short lines that any human being can read and instantly

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understand who God is and what his attributes are. This

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is exactly what we would expect from an all knowing, wise, just,

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merciful and loving God who cares about his creation. The

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four lines are the one hundred and twelfth chapter of

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the Quran. Say he is God, one God, a Llah,

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the completely self sufficient. He neither begets, nor is born,

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nor is there to him any equivalents.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, all right, still got a roughly thirty seconds

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on the clock. But I'll end it there. I will

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turn it to Team Christianity. We'll put another five minutes

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on the clock for you guys.

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Speaker 3: Let me first, Jay, you want me to go, you

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go either way, go ahead.

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Speaker 5: So okay, let me go.

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Speaker 1: Okay, alright, timers, already, all right.

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Speaker 5: Praise be the Father suddenly Spirit to one True God,

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and glory to the Son of God who became flesh

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for our salvation. May the Lord Jesus be magnified and

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the falsehood of Toheed exposed. Now, notice what Daniel did,

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instead of focusing on what it means for all it

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to be one, spent the bulk of his time criticizing

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the trinity. But we will answer his objections in a

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rebuttal period. But I'm now going to turn against him

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because not so fast. When he says he believes in Toheed,

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what exactly does it mean for all it to be one?

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Because I'm aware that Daniel does believe the fact that

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Kron is uncreated, and therefore we now have two distinct

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eternal entities that are not identical. Why Because I'm going

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to show Daniel from his authentic sources sahe narrations that

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the Churn and the chapters of the Koran actually one.

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To recede and debate with a law. So now we

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have a paradox because if the Koran is the speech

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of a law and that's all us speaking, is all

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us speaking to himself? So is Daniel actually a mobilist

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or is the apolotheist? Or does he have a phone

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with Trinity? But his is even worse because it's not

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three persons, because each chapter of the Koran has the

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potentiality of speaking with a law. So that means his

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God consists of at least one hundred and fifteen divine

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persons or divine beings who can interact with one another

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and appear separately. And this is all from his authentic narrations. Secondly,

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the second problem he has is that according to the Koran,

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the spirit of Allah is not Gabriel. So I'm going

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to now press him in rebuttal period to prove otherwise.

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There's not a single verse in the chron that says

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the spirit to Ruh is Jibidean. He's now dependent on

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the very scholars of Islam that comes centuries later to

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bail out Alana's messenger, because that's what he accused the

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Lord Jesus, that Jesus wasn't clear enough to articulate to Trinity.

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But he did make an admission which is now going

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to come and bite him. He admitted Paul taught the Trinity.

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It's now recorded. I want everyone to hear it. Paul

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taught the Trinity, because when we come to the scriptures,

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I'm going to show that even the Koran acknowledges that

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Paul was used by Allah to spread the truth of

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the Gospel of Jesus Christ. More to come. The Spirit,

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according to the Koran, is the sinc from a Lah.

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He appears as a man, he speaks and creates. So

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now if we add the spirit to the Koran and

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a law, he's got about one hundred and sixteen divine

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persons or beings, and he doesn't have a singular person

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called a law, then we can go a little further

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and adjust the issue of the fact that, according to

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our friend here this is his belief. Allah has well,

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he wouldn't use the term body parts. I don't want

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to misrepresent him. Allah has a foot, he has a shin,

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He even has loins, and he has at least two eyes,

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if not more, and two right hands. Now, for the

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life of me, if All is the creator of the

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heavens and the earth, how does he exist as an

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embodied being without him dwelling in space, because if he's

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a temporal and he's timeless, that means his God supposedly

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exists when there was no time space in place. But

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if you have a foot, then you have a shin

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and you have two right hands. I don't know what

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happened to the left one, but we'll get into that.

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Two right hands at least two eyes. In fact, the

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Arabic says three or more. We'll get into that. Then

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that means his God is an embodied being who is

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temporal and finite, which means that his God didn't not

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create all space or place in time because there's a

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space that his body parts need to occupy in order

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for him to be his God. So the problem is

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actually worse for Daniel than for us. So he's going

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to have to explain how is it that he's a

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polytheist pagan masquerading as a monotheist because what he just

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told you is not anchoring the kron or the authentic

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son of Muhammad. So good luck in chin to defend

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your rational selfie anthropomorphism. And last time I checked, his

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partner doesn't share his selfie anthropomorphism, So we're going to

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have a field day. Now how much nimee?

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Speaker 1: Do I have one minute to go?

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Speaker 5: You want to take last minute ahead?

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Speaker 4: Brother?

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I'd like to point out that in Daniel's opening statement

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they also committed a fallacy, which is a form of

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Ockham's razor fallacy. He kept appealing to the fact that

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because it's simple, that it must be obvious. It must

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be the case. It's just to go something scenes or

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appears to be simpler or more obvious, or because it

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was only four short and simple sentences, has nothing to

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do with whether it's for awesome. In fact, as we're

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gonna see the Muslims amongst themselves and their various schools

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all compete and disagree and fight not only over the

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attributes but also over jurisprudence.

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Speaker 1: Okay, great, so this is a little bit at a time.

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But so that concludes opening statements. Obviously, that segues perfectly

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into our first thing. What I'll do is, do we

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have any chests with it to read or you know,

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we'll just go right into the first one. Guys, get

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your chats in now and I'll read them after the

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first round. After opening statements. So segues perfectly into round one,

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which is theology Trinity versus the weed. I'm gonna turn

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it back to team Islam. You guys are gonna I'm

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gonna put four minutes on a clock for you guys,

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and we will. Are you guys ready, all right, Bills,

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do you have the clock or do you want to

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do here? Yeah? Four minutes for this one yea, and

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from this point for it's gonna be four minuts. Just

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opening statements that we're five. So once you guys start talking,

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hit the clock. Just we'll do that, Bills, to make

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it easier, once they start talking, hit the clock.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I guess I'll go first. Here This Milo hundred barsla.

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To notice that for this debate, some Shamun had to

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create a religion in mockery, something which does not actually exist,

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in order to argue against the Muslims. No Muslim believes

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that Aloys one hundred and fifteen persons, not even the

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Christians who didn't understand Islam like Johnath Damascus, could come

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up with something so ridiculous. When we will find that

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this is the case in Christian theology, that God is

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another being, I mean I do believe that day, I

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do think that they believe in what's his name, justin

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matter saying that there's another entity. Of course they would

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like to revise that, but that's what he literally what

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he says. When it comes to New Testament, Jesus says

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it's a person cannot have two masters, or rather that

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he cannot save two lords. We look at the Jesus

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of Teen Testament, he is at odds with the Christian

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understanding of the doctrine of the Trinity. We could even

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go a step further than this. For us Muslims, yes,

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the Koran describes our law in a simple thing, so class.

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But from this we get a comprehensive understanding. We say

359
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that this is a joam yo kalam, or speech which

360
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is extensive. You can ask us almost any question about

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the nature of all law, and in those fort Shore

362
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passages we can understand it to the point that if

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I were to compare this with the Bible, I would

364
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not be able to find four verses that simply and

365
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reasonably explain the nature of God. If God loved us,

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we cared for us, and he was merciful for us,

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then there's a duty there, a justice where he would

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want us to understand him, But our Christian colleagues fundamentally

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cannot and do not understand God. I'll give one simple

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example here. The God of the Koran was able to

371
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describe it self as one, absolutely one, needing nothing. The

372
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God of the Bible allegedly describes himself as begotten, a

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word of which the meaning we cannot know, and which

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we know. What's actually changed for those who don't know

375
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the God of the Bible when he says that he

376
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has begotten. This come from the Greek word monogenist. Unfortunately,

377
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that word today is not translated as unique. So if

378
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you're a Christian, does it matter to you that the

379
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Bible does not teach what you actually believe? My friend

380
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here Sam actually teaches that if a thing and I

381
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your belief cannot stand being tested by the Bible, then

382
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it is false. So I would like to ask him,

383
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where is the belief that Jesus is begotten? Using the

384
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Greek of the New Testaments for the Daniel, Yeah.

385
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Speaker 2: I just want to say that they did exactly what

386
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I predicted in the opening statement. They wouldn't address the

387
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trinity at all, and the clear logical contradiction of the

388
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Trinity that everyone is aware of they had to bring

389
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up these unrelated issues like the uncreatedness of the Qur'an

390
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or that that God a law has hands, for example,

391
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This has nothing to do with monotheism. Maybe they don't

392
00:23:06,559 --> 00:23:09,559
understand what tohid means. To Haid means one God, it

393
00:23:09,599 --> 00:23:12,200
means monotheism. And this is the claim that we're making

394
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that polytheism is the Trinity. The Trinity is polytheism. So

395
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tell me how I want them to explain. Since their

396
00:23:18,759 --> 00:23:21,480
whole opening statement was bringing up the issue of the

397
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uncreatedness of the Qur'an and the hand of Allah, how

398
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does that contradict monotheism? How does God having a hand?

399
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,480
However you want to explain that hand, it has nothing

400
00:23:33,519 --> 00:23:35,559
to do by the way o it cele Fi or

401
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:39,359
the other theological schools of Klam and Islam thirty All

402
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,960
of the schools are united on this. All Muslims are

403
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,079
united on this. God having a hand does not mean

404
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,039
that the hand has its own mind, that the hand

405
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,799
is its own entity, its own God, its own person.

406
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,400
No theologian has ever said that there's no challenge to

407
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monotheism of Islam by bringing up the hand or the

408
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,720
on or anything like that, or the shin yeah, and

409
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:06,640
that again, like you just said perfectly one hundred and

410
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,359
fifteen got like separate gods minds. The Quran doesn't have

411
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its own mind.

412
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Speaker 1: That is time, okay, I will turn to a team Christianity.

413
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Speaker 3: Here.

414
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Speaker 1: This is the bottom of the first round. Here you billsie.

415
00:24:22,839 --> 00:24:24,359
We got the timer for them four minutes again on

416
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the clock. And you guys start speaking, Well, we'll see

417
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at the clock. Once you start speaking, do.

418
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Speaker 5: You ask SKay Jay, do you want to go? Do

419
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you want me to go?

420
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Speaker 3: Let me have a one or two minutes and now

421
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I'll go it to you. So I did. I did

422
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want to address what Daniel said, because of course he

423
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misstated several things about what our position is. First of all,

424
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the argument about attributes was not that you believe that

425
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their persons. Sam was making an analogy to show that

426
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you have the exact same problem in your position, and

427
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you have a double standard when you try to say

428
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that we have to solve this trinitarian dilemma. It's a contradiction.

429
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But your view of the attributes is is not subject

430
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to that problem. That's just a double standard, was the point.

431
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,799
Nobody said that you believe that the attributes are person,

432
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So that's a misdirection. First of all, didn't he keeps

433
00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:11,160
you already admit that Paul taught the trinity, and I

434
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,519
think it Jaws disagreed with that. So which one is it?

435
00:25:14,559 --> 00:25:16,720
Did Paultae a trinity or did he not? And then

436
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,240
I would also add that Christ does not have a

437
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,440
human person, and that's why the notion about divine mind

438
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is a two minds scenario where he shares a divine

439
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:29,880
mind with the Father and he has limitations in his

440
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:31,960
human mind. That's why it's two minds. So you tried

441
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,759
to say that he had one mind and it was

442
00:25:33,839 --> 00:25:37,799
separate knowledge. The expression where he says that he's limited

443
00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:40,799
in knowledge is a reference to rhetoric, and if you

444
00:25:40,839 --> 00:25:43,359
can read Saint Basil letter two thirty four, five and six,

445
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,799
he talks about these issues and explains that just as

446
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,640
Jesus says in other places that there's no one good

447
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:50,920
but God, he's not literally saying that there's no one

448
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else good, because in other passages he calls himself good,

449
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he calls the Holy Spirit good as well, And so

450
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it's a feature of rhetoric. You have the same types

451
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:02,519
of expressions in your own chronic exegesis where you try

452
00:26:02,519 --> 00:26:05,039
to solve these dilemmas, but you don't want us to

453
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:06,720
have that right, Sam will throw it to you.

454
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, Notice how Daniel conveniently wants to evade what the

455
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,039
topic is. The topic is Trinity versus Toheed, but I

456
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know he can't defend tohate because it's irrational, so he

457
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just wants attack to Trinity, thinking that Toheed wins by default. Daniel,

458
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,240
you're the one who set up the topic Trinity versus Toheed.

459
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,400
You didn't want to do it separately, so stop whining

460
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about it. Now coming back to the issue, Maybe you

461
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,880
didn't hear what I said. The Koran must have a

462
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mind independent from your God if the chron is going

463
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,200
to argue with your God and the individual individual chapters

464
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:40,240
here Sahei Muslim book four, number seventeen fifty seven. Abumama

465
00:26:40,319 --> 00:26:42,640
said he heard all his messengers say, recite the korn,

466
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for on the day of resurrection, it will come as

467
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an intercessor for those who recited. How does the speech

468
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of a law and recede with a law? If it's

469
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,759
a speech of a law, is all us speaking to

470
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himself in a different mode, then you are a modalist.

471
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So your to heed is modalism, but then it gets worse.

472
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For you recite the two bright ones el Bakara and

473
00:27:00,079 --> 00:27:02,759
to Deman chapters two and three from the Day of Resurrection,

474
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:04,519
they will come as two clouds or two shades, or

475
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:06,759
two flocks of birds in ranks, pleading for those who

476
00:27:06,799 --> 00:27:10,000
recite them, pleading with who with themselves. If the serves

477
00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:13,319
of the chron can appear independently, separately and appear in

478
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,960
visible form and argue with the Law, that's either your

479
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,160
God being schizophrenic arguing with himself in different modes, so

480
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,599
you're modalists, or you have now separate gods argue with

481
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,440
one another, so you're a polytheist. Or you have to

482
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,559
believe that toheed encompasses a plurality of distinct entities who

483
00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:32,440
can then interact and argue with one another. So don't

484
00:27:32,519 --> 00:27:35,400
run and evade with your smoke and merit tactics. Deal

485
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,880
with the issue. You didn't understand what I meant about

486
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,200
your God's body parts, even though you don't like to

487
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:42,640
use the term body parts and know not all the

488
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,720
Sunnieds define the hand of a law as meaning what

489
00:27:46,839 --> 00:27:49,240
you mean. Because you have those that say that it's

490
00:27:49,279 --> 00:27:52,119
a metaphor for his power. You do not believe this,

491
00:27:52,599 --> 00:27:54,440
So I'm still trying to figure out do you believe

492
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,519
in a finite god who assumes time and space? Because

493
00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:00,240
if he has a hand two right hand, that's what

494
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,559
happened to his left. Maybe you can explain he has

495
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:06,680
a shin, he has loins. That means he's an embodied being.

496
00:28:06,759 --> 00:28:09,440
If he's an embodied being, he requires space unless you

497
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,440
want to create another contradiction with your irrational Celfie anthropomorphism.

498
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,319
Speaker 1: Still twenty on the clock, Okay.

499
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,039
Speaker 5: Sorry, Yeah, I don't know because I'm trying to speak

500
00:28:19,039 --> 00:28:22,200
past making time. So yeah, Daniel, remember what the topic is.

501
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,039
I know, maybe sometimes being a little intimidated you forget

502
00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,880
trinity versus the heat on from shouldering the burden of

503
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,119
proof proof.

504
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,559
Speaker 1: All right, so I will turn it back. That completes

505
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,599
round one on Well, yeah, the first set of rounds.

506
00:28:39,759 --> 00:28:42,839
We're going to go into round two of this. For Tim,

507
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:44,400
I'm going to turn it back to Team Islam here

508
00:28:45,839 --> 00:28:50,400
again with weed versus the Trinity. Daniel, turn it back

509
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:53,599
to you or EF or either one of you that

510
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,720
wants to take it for four minutes on the clock.

511
00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 4: Because this is quite simple. How is it possible that

512
00:29:01,519 --> 00:29:05,319
they don't understand that the Kuran also uses rhetoric. In fact,

513
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:08,640
in the Koran always says he uses examples of every kind.

514
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:11,200
So it's not that hard to understand it. But there

515
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:13,799
is a problem here for j because Ja seems to

516
00:29:13,799 --> 00:29:18,000
think that in Mark thirteen thirty two, this is simple rhetoric. Unfortunately,

517
00:29:18,119 --> 00:29:20,119
describes of the Bible they don't see it that way,

518
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:23,119
which is why they had to repeatedly change the words

519
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,680
over several centuries. They clearly saw a problem with it.

520
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,359
If there was no problem, why the describes change it. Unfortunately,

521
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,279
Ja describes factually disagree with you. I'm sorry, but someone

522
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,400
later like Saint Basil, trying to allegorize it is not

523
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,440
going to solve the physical problem of your scribes change

524
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:45,759
in the Bible. Secondly, some seems to not understand basic Islam.

525
00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:48,400
He begins by asking what is the heat? Good question?

526
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,079
Let me teach you. Allah is absolutely one. Allah has

527
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:56,200
distinct attributes, and Allah does not need anything. He's not

528
00:29:56,319 --> 00:30:00,440
multiple persons. He doesn't rely on anyone or anything other

529
00:30:00,559 --> 00:30:04,720
than himself. He is beginning less and bless me. He's

530
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:07,400
the first and the last. If I were to ask

531
00:30:07,839 --> 00:30:09,880
the God of the Bible, is he the first on

532
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,480
the last? We know that very recently the scholars at

533
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,920
the ECM have decided that God the Father in Revelation

534
00:30:17,079 --> 00:30:20,400
twenty one six actually became the first on the last.

535
00:30:20,599 --> 00:30:22,680
That's the problem for the Trinity. Do you believe that

536
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,319
God had to become the first on the last? Who

537
00:30:25,359 --> 00:30:27,440
made him the first on the last? For us? That

538
00:30:27,519 --> 00:30:29,880
just seems unvisible nonsense? Danielle.

539
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,599
Speaker 2: Yeah. So Sam wants to make a big deal about

540
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:41,160
the Oran speaking, so he read that hadith. Sam is

541
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:44,359
not familiar with the Quran. So in chapter thirty six,

542
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,799
verse sixty five, we read in the Quran, on that

543
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,799
day we shall seal up their mouths, but their hands

544
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:52,240
will speak to us, and their feet their witness to

545
00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:55,599
everything they have done. Does that mean that our hands

546
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,559
and feet have minds? Did any Muslim in history ever

547
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,720
interpret that verse that the hands and feet of our

548
00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:06,119
own bodies have minds? Yet they will speak for or

549
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:09,400
against us on the day of judgment. So this is

550
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,880
an interpretation that he has that no one has ever

551
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,799
made in the history of Islam. But many Christians and

552
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:21,480
theologians and Church fathers have debated and discussed the knowledge

553
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,960
of the of Jesus being different from the knowledge of

554
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,400
the Father and the will of Jesus being different from

555
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,720
the will of the Father. Jesus has a separate human

556
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,000
will and this is what they will not explain. Also,

557
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:42,960
so yeah, explain that problem. That contradiction God having a hand.

558
00:31:43,079 --> 00:31:47,000
Guess what, that's a problem for the Trinity as well,

559
00:31:47,079 --> 00:31:51,759
because the New Testament in Acts seven fifty five describes

560
00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:55,440
Jesus as standing at the right hand of the Father.

561
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,480
So what is the right hand of the Father? Is

562
00:31:58,519 --> 00:32:01,359
that in space? Does the Father have a body? Can

563
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,599
you explain that? What is the hand the right hand

564
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,000
of the Father? Does he have a left hand? Does

565
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:09,720
the Father have a body? Like does the Father have

566
00:32:09,799 --> 00:32:14,839
two sides? Explain that verse within Acts and that's in

567
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,160
the New Testament. So I'm very interested to understand if

568
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,720
this is a corporeal, physical Father or not, or what

569
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:24,079
does the Bible mean? Do we have an explanation of that?

570
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:27,240
So this it doesn't matter if you take the hand

571
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,640
of God to be metaphorical, if you take it to

572
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,680
be be la caf meaning without modality, that doesn't contradict

573
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:37,920
O hate it doesn't contradict monotheism. Explain how having a

574
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,920
hand God having a hand means that it's not monotheism.

575
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:42,240
That's what you can't do.

576
00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 4: Right.

577
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 5: You want me to go time?

578
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 1: Yeah? Ten seconds, but it's swizzling down now? Yeah?

579
00:32:55,279 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 5: Do you want you want me to let me ask

580
00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:58,839
ja though, because we don't know, you havet me to

581
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:00,559
split the time with you. You're me to take four minutes.

582
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 3: I've got I need about one or two minutes. You

583
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:03,039
can go ahead.

584
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 5: Why don't you go with your one two minutes.

585
00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:06,559
Speaker 1: Before you guys go Dan? Did you get everything out

586
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:08,119
that you needed to get there? Because I think there

587
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:09,480
might have been a confusion on the time.

588
00:33:10,519 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got everything out, thinks okay, all.

589
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 1: Right, cool, I just want to make sure it's all good.

590
00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:15,240
All right, Jay, you're getting to kick it off on

591
00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:15,799
this one.

592
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 3: Right, So going back to the text about uh are

593
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:21,039
you ready?

594
00:33:21,599 --> 00:33:22,519
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, go ahead.

595
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: Well, going back to the text about the limitation of

596
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:28,200
Jesus knowledge, he said the scribes changed it. If the

597
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,359
scribes changed it, why is it still in the text

598
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,839
talking about the exaggeration of the limitation of his knowledge?

599
00:33:35,039 --> 00:33:38,200
When I said exaggeration rhetoric, I didn't say allegory. So

600
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,839
I don't think you as knows the difference between the

601
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,440
grammatical terms of exaggeration and allegory. I did not say

602
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:47,480
it's an allegory. It's similar to other passages where Jesus

603
00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:50,759
talks about straining in that swallowing camels. This is called

604
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,759
it's called exaggeration. And so in the same way he

605
00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:56,839
can say no one is good but God. Okay, nobody

606
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,680
believes that that literally means that there's literally no one good.

607
00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:03,279
Like the prophets weren't good, Jesus isn't good, the Spirit

608
00:34:03,279 --> 00:34:05,440
doesn't good. Out he's talking about no one is good

609
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,000
but God the Father in a specific sense of God

610
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:10,400
being the Father, being the archae the principle of the

611
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,360
fount and the cause. The last thing I'll say is

612
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:15,719
that we're not subject to the same problems as you guys, well,

613
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,519
particularly Daniel, because we don't have the anthropomorphic error about

614
00:34:19,519 --> 00:34:22,920
God the Father. So what we believe about the mode

615
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,519
of the Son coming into time and space. You have

616
00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,960
that same issue with Allah himself. You're saying that Allah

617
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,760
has these parts which you say or attributes. And by

618
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,800
the way, don't you two disagree on the status of

619
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:36,400
those attributes between yourselves.

620
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 5: Go ahead, Sam, Yeah, let me piggyback off the what

621
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,360
he just said. Now, he was talking about that the

622
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,400
Krown talks about hands and in speaking, they don't have minds.

623
00:34:46,559 --> 00:34:48,519
How do you know that? Where did the text tell

624
00:34:48,519 --> 00:34:51,840
you that? Notice his appeal to a forty He says, well, normals,

625
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,039
some scholar, Yes, I know you live in denial, just

626
00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:56,119
like you live in denial that your pagans and polity

627
00:34:56,199 --> 00:34:59,360
is for a variety of issues, especially kissing the black Stone.

628
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,480
It doesn't matter what your scholar says. What you can prove.

629
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:04,800
So prove to me that when hands and feet are speak,

630
00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:07,880
they're mindless. So now let's take your analogy with the kron.

631
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,679
So mindless Koran will be engaging a law. So you're

632
00:35:11,679 --> 00:35:14,280
going to have the chron engaging with a law even

633
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,840
though it doesn't have a mind of its own. So

634
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,119
now we're back to square one. If the chron is

635
00:35:18,119 --> 00:35:20,679
the speech of a law, how does Allah's speech speak

636
00:35:20,679 --> 00:35:23,119
to himself? Is Allah speaking to himself but in a

637
00:35:23,159 --> 00:35:25,840
different mode. You didn't answer that dilemma. Now, coming back

638
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:29,039
to the issue of God in the right hand, unlike you,

639
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,320
according to the scriptures, unlike your position as a selfie anthropomorphist.

640
00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:37,960
The Bible says God is spirit. So I'm going to

641
00:35:38,079 --> 00:35:39,559
challenge you to show me your chrown and sone where

642
00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:41,679
it says you're alla a spirit and in the context

643
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:43,840
of John four twenty four, God a spirit, meaning that

644
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,280
he is bodyless in corporeal because he's the creator of

645
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,400
heavens and earth, but that God can appear visibly. God

646
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,400
the Father appears visibly in heaven. That's Daniel seven nine,

647
00:35:54,639 --> 00:35:57,920
verses ten, Chapter seven, verse nine to ten, Revelation chapter four.

648
00:35:58,199 --> 00:36:00,199
So when it says that Jesus and his glora fight,

649
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,039
physical body enters this heavenly realm where angels dwell, Heaven

650
00:36:05,199 --> 00:36:09,000
itself is created, and God can manifest in heaven and

651
00:36:09,119 --> 00:36:13,239
Jesus physically being seen by the heavens of heaven, sitting

652
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,280
at the right hand of the Father who appears visibly.

653
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,159
But you don't believe that about the body parts of

654
00:36:17,199 --> 00:36:21,480
your God. You're not like Ijaza Maturidi. You believe your

655
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,880
God has two right hands. Where's the left one? I'm

656
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,079
still waiting for the answer. He has loins, he has

657
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:29,119
his shin, and he's going to put his foot overhead,

658
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,840
and then you have the womb yanking on his loins

659
00:36:32,039 --> 00:36:33,880
that's inside bukati. How many seconds do I have?

660
00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: You got fifty seconds? You're good, keep going fifty fifty seconds.

661
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:44,559
Speaker 5: Yes, So now come back and address your polytheistic pagan beliefs.

662
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,119
Since the chapters of the Koran can appear separately invisible form,

663
00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,480
and they are interceding with the law, they're disputing with

664
00:36:53,519 --> 00:36:56,239
the law. How if the Koran is a speech of

665
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:56,719
a law?

666
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: Time on, no, No, thirty thirty. I'm just saying, how is.

667
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,559
Speaker 5: The how is the Koran? How are the individual serves

668
00:37:03,559 --> 00:37:06,559
of the Koran disputing with the law? According to you,

669
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,480
no one thinks they have a mind, So mindless surahs

670
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:14,480
have the mind enough to know who recites them? Who

671
00:37:14,519 --> 00:37:17,639
would defend an argue on behalf of and argue with

672
00:37:17,639 --> 00:37:19,480
a law? Well, this is supposedly speech of a law.

673
00:37:19,559 --> 00:37:23,079
So is you're all law speaking to himself schizophrenic deity? Anyway,

674
00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:23,800
I think my time is up.

675
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Okay, that is that is time now, So

676
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,000
we're gonna go into round three now. This is the

677
00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:34,599
final round of Tawied versus Trinity. This is the top

678
00:37:34,599 --> 00:37:37,880
of the last round four minutes on the clock. I'll

679
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,800
turn into Team Islam here. Whenever you guys go, we'll

680
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,519
start the timer.

681
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:49,199
Speaker 4: You John go, Yeah, this is quite easy. So none

682
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,199
of these points defeat us for Islam, nor do they

683
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,400
change or attack with Muslims actually believe. Notice the struw

684
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,880
men that they have to create. They have to think

685
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,719
that these are parts of all lot. Even some admitted,

686
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,280
you don't use this language. So if we don't use

687
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,639
that language, we don't describe it that way, we don't

688
00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:08,039
teach it that way. Why is your opinion of how

689
00:38:08,119 --> 00:38:10,559
you read it? In a very Christian way? I would

690
00:38:10,559 --> 00:38:13,440
say it's very natural for you to create different persons

691
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,960
for God. That's the very definition of schizophrenia. Let's get

692
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,960
something straight here. Jay is incorrect. He made the statement, Well,

693
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,159
if it's so there in the Bible for market in

694
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,639
Jty two that Jesus does don't know the day or

695
00:38:25,679 --> 00:38:29,280
the hour, what does that mean that describes changed it? Yes,

696
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,039
the scribes actually changed the meaning of the term. And

697
00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:36,440
what the academics have gone and done is translate and

698
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,599
they've tried to fix under just what diverse means, because

699
00:38:39,639 --> 00:38:41,960
it occurs twice in the Bible and in the two

700
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,719
places where Jesus has no knowledge of the day or

701
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,840
the hour described, try to amend it. There is no

702
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,480
text to a critical life today. Who will not testify

703
00:38:50,559 --> 00:38:52,960
to that? So I put it back to j Let's

704
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:56,119
look at the manuscripts. Sam says that your manuscripts are

705
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:58,880
from the fourth century and Verberton. He says that the

706
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,960
problem because the further they go back, the more that

707
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:09,639
they disagree. And this refers to cordectxcited, curs, Vardicanus, alexandrenas, fremi, rescriptors,

708
00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:12,599
et cetera. He says that it's a problem, So peace

709
00:39:12,679 --> 00:39:16,480
address the problem. Please answer how God can be ignorant?

710
00:39:16,679 --> 00:39:19,719
Please answer how God can not move things? That is

711
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,960
a God who is fundamentally agile. Lastly, on this point

712
00:39:23,679 --> 00:39:27,119
of all not having parts, Muslims don't believe that Muslims

713
00:39:27,119 --> 00:39:29,480
do not see as well that when the day of

714
00:39:29,559 --> 00:39:33,719
judgment comes and things testify, parts testify, that these mean

715
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,719
that they are the mind of all that No one

716
00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:37,360
says that, Daniel.

717
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 2: Yes, there's a lot to say here. They keep saying

718
00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,239
that I'm sell a fie this and sell a fee

719
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,159
that me and Ijaz are on the same page. On

720
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,239
all of these issues. You don't have to be a

721
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:51,039
particular school of Islamic thought to defend or heat. So

722
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:54,280
you keep projecting this onto us because you have no

723
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,679
way to respond to our argument. And it's interesting that

724
00:39:57,719 --> 00:40:01,880
you're bringing up sects because he has claimed that Catholics

725
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:06,039
are modalists, that they're heretics, and that basically they are deviant.

726
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,960
So what does Jay have to say about Catholics. He

727
00:40:09,039 --> 00:40:11,400
thinks that you're a deviant and a heretic, Sam, and

728
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,840
maybe that you're going to hell. So did you clarify

729
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,079
that with Jay before you even agree to this debate?

730
00:40:17,559 --> 00:40:20,519
Second of all, for Sam, look at what Luke nineteen

731
00:40:20,599 --> 00:40:23,599
forty says, I tell you, he replied, If they keep quiet,

732
00:40:23,599 --> 00:40:26,519
the stones will cry out, stones will cry out. According

733
00:40:26,559 --> 00:40:29,800
to the New Testament, do the stones have mines? Isaiah

734
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:31,960
fifty five twelve, You will go out in joy and

735
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,159
be led forth in peace. The mountains and the hills

736
00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:37,079
will burst into song before you, and all the trees

737
00:40:37,079 --> 00:40:40,000
of the field will clap their hands. Does that mean

738
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:43,480
that the hills and the trees have mines? Sam explained that,

739
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:46,960
Or how about Psalm ninety eight eight, Let the rivers

740
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,119
clap their hands. Let the mountains sing together for joy.

741
00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:52,719
Does that mean that the rivers have hands and they're

742
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,920
clapping for joy? Do they have mines? Sam Please explain

743
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,440
all of those verses. You want to have that kind

744
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,599
of understanding of mountains, rivers and whatever, and you say that,

745
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,559
you'll say that these are not minds. But the problem

746
00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:08,360
with the trinity is that Jesus has a separate mind

747
00:41:08,519 --> 00:41:11,559
than the Father. The Father has a separate mind from Jesus.

748
00:41:12,119 --> 00:41:14,280
They both have a separate mind from the Holy Spirit.

749
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,880
That means they're three separate entities and therefore three separate gods.

750
00:41:19,079 --> 00:41:22,440
This is polytheism. We don't have that problem in Islam.

751
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:25,360
The Quran doesn't have its own mind. There's no one

752
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:28,559
who ever has thought the Quran has its own mind

753
00:41:28,639 --> 00:41:31,119
that is separate from God. But this is what you're

754
00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:33,559
trying to claim, not based on any text, not based

755
00:41:33,559 --> 00:41:37,920
on any hadith. This is just your assertion based on nothing.

756
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,119
So address the trinity. Why can't you address the trinity?

757
00:41:41,159 --> 00:41:43,960
You have to raise these straw men against Islam. It

758
00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:45,559
sounds kind of ridiculous.

759
00:41:45,559 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 3: Frankly, Jae, you want me to take it? Uh?

760
00:41:49,599 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 1: You guys still got Muslims. You guys are done. You've

761
00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:53,760
only got one forty two left. You still got one

762
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:54,199
forty two that.

763
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just want to emphasize that they did

764
00:41:58,039 --> 00:42:01,239
not address the Trinity at all. We addressed all of

765
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,159
their complaints against the Quran, against Monotheism, against to heat.

766
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,239
They haven't even started to defend the Trinity. So this

767
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,960
is a fail. What we can do and Sam proof

768
00:42:11,039 --> 00:42:12,559
for Christians? Okay, go ahead?

769
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 3: Yeah?

770
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 4: Could I point out as well, they didn't address the

771
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,360
problem of Jesus' status has been begotten being changed in

772
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:23,239
the actual text. Okay, seems you've missing the point that

773
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,280
some admitted was a problem. Sam says that the manuscripts

774
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,119
from the fourth century are a problem. He says, critics

775
00:42:30,119 --> 00:42:37,000
and because it's and heresies, real quick, defend this year.

776
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: So this will do, This will do, This will do.

777
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:41,159
Since you guys still have some time on the clock

778
00:42:41,159 --> 00:42:42,800
and it seems like this is you guys kind of

779
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,199
want to have a little bit of a dialogue here.

780
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:46,960
If you guys want, I'm going to have Team Christianity

781
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,199
go right now. I'm going to give them their full

782
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,039
four minutes, and then what we can do is if

783
00:42:50,079 --> 00:42:52,039
you guys want. I could put another three or four

784
00:42:52,039 --> 00:42:54,400
minutes on the clock where we'll finish off this round

785
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,840
with Tweed versus Trinity, where you guys have open dialogue

786
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:58,280
with each other and.

787
00:42:58,239 --> 00:43:01,159
Speaker 5: I could perform better and I can corner them they

788
00:43:01,199 --> 00:43:01,719
can't run.

789
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: Okay, So that's what I'll do. So I'll give you

790
00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,719
four minutes on a clock. Are well, Team Aslam? Are

791
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:07,079
you guys okay with that? Do you guys want that?

792
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,679
Because it seems like you guys want open dialogue here.

793
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's what we want.

794
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 1: You guys, what you want? Okay? Cool? So to give

795
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,000
to people what they want, this is what you guys want. Awesome.

796
00:43:16,159 --> 00:43:17,960
So Tim Christiana will put four minutes on a clock

797
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,239
for you guys, and then after this we'll do either

798
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,639
three between three to five minutes. What do you guys decide?

799
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,599
I'll just open dialog between the four of you. So

800
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,320
I'll perform minutes on the clock here. Whenever you guys

801
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,880
are ready, go ahead and we'll start the clock.

802
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,239
Speaker 5: Lad Jay, you want to go first?

803
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 1: Suh?

804
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:38,199
Speaker 3: Yeah? So again, Jesus doesn't have a separate divine mind.

805
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,559
He shares the same divine mind as the Father, and

806
00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:43,639
when he assumed human nature. He assumed a human mind.

807
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:46,559
That's part of the fullness of human nature. So we

808
00:43:46,599 --> 00:43:49,239
don't say that he's separate, just like the persons of

809
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,400
the Trinity are distinct but not separate, just like you

810
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:55,559
believe attributes are distinct, not separate. Now, I know that

811
00:43:55,599 --> 00:43:58,199
you can't seem to follow the fact that we're not

812
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,599
saying you believe the attributes actually have minds. We're just

813
00:44:01,639 --> 00:44:04,880
pointing out that you have the same metaphysical problem that

814
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,880
you have a double standard for saying I'm not liable

815
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,519
to explain that, you have to explain it. And then

816
00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:13,800
when we bring that up, every one of your responses

817
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,199
on that is a two quote way. Well, doesn't the

818
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:18,960
Bible talk about body parts? Doesn't the Bible? Yeah, but

819
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,400
we don't have the same metaphysical problems as you because

820
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:23,800
we don't have the same metaphysics. So but you don't

821
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:25,400
seem to be able to follow that. So that's a

822
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,599
two quot way. But other than that, the other thing

823
00:44:28,599 --> 00:44:30,960
I would just reply to is that you jas kept

824
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:32,960
saying that all of the scholars and in the world

825
00:44:33,039 --> 00:44:35,400
believe this, so there's not a single one that would disagree.

826
00:44:35,559 --> 00:44:37,880
Has he read all of the scholars. He asserted all

827
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,559
of these things. He says, the scribes changed it, yet

828
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:43,840
it's still there in the text. So he's just asserting

829
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,119
these things. We don't know where he's where this is

830
00:44:46,159 --> 00:44:48,440
coming from. These are all assertions. Go ahead, So.

831
00:44:49,039 --> 00:44:52,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, we will get into scripture authenticity the second part.

832
00:44:52,039 --> 00:44:53,719
But he wants to change a topic because it's too

833
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,960
hot for him. And in the second part he just

834
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,000
proved Mohammed as a false prophet, and he is, but

835
00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:00,280
for other reasons. But let me come and address guys.

836
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,280
You see how desperate Daniel is. And he's talking about

837
00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:05,840
we're evading the topic. Read Luke nineteen three eight to forty.

838
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:08,159
Let me show you the context as my time is fleeding. There,

839
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,360
Jesus is being praised by children and the scholars are

840
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:13,280
saying rebuke them. He goes, well, if they were silent,

841
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,039
even the stones were cry out anyone with any common sense,

842
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:19,119
but understand it's hard for them to read a text

843
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,800
in its literary context. He's using hyperbole that even if

844
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,880
they don't praise me, creation will praise me. That's exactly

845
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:30,159
the context of the Psalms. The Psalmist, which is politic literature,

846
00:45:30,559 --> 00:45:34,840
is personifying creation to show that all creation glorifies God

847
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:38,199
because creation is a testimony to the greatness and existence

848
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:41,559
of God. Nice try with that false analogy, But I

849
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:43,960
want him now when I engage you, I'm when I

850
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:47,519
ask you, so, are you saying to me that when

851
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,679
the Hadeed not your Quran says that thesaurus will intercede

852
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,960
with the law that's not literal. Are you saying to

853
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:57,639
me when the Koran will intercede with the law that's

854
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:00,199
not literal? I hope you say that. And on top

855
00:46:00,199 --> 00:46:02,159
of that, what do you do with the Hadiz where

856
00:46:02,159 --> 00:46:05,840
it says the trees greeted your profit, stones greeted your

857
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,000
profit and at the last day a stone will crowd saying, Hey,

858
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,159
there's a Yahoo behind me, come and kill him. Are

859
00:46:11,159 --> 00:46:14,920
you going to allegorize those statements, Daniel hakika Chu, I

860
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:16,719
hope not, because I'm going to have a field day

861
00:46:17,159 --> 00:46:19,039
at your expense. And what are you going to do

862
00:46:19,119 --> 00:46:22,199
with chapter forty seven, verse twenty two of the Koran

863
00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:25,239
When you go to Bukhati, your prophet says there's a

864
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:31,039
primordial rachem womb that yanked on your God's gonads, and

865
00:46:31,079 --> 00:46:35,079
he said stop stop. Are you going to allegorize that too,

866
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,760
the fact that your God has loins, the fact that

867
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,320
there is a womb yanking on his gonads, which is

868
00:46:43,559 --> 00:46:48,079
actually in BUKHATI cited even in Imocathar. You're comparing apples

869
00:46:48,119 --> 00:46:50,760
and pineapples. Because the debate is over, you can't defend

870
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:55,559
your irrational, incoherent sell a feebabbel. And yes, I know

871
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,920
you don't want to say the hand is literal in

872
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:01,119
the sense that it's a hand, my hand. But I

873
00:47:01,199 --> 00:47:04,039
want to hear you from your own mouth, Daniel, Are

874
00:47:04,039 --> 00:47:07,079
you telling me that almost hand is a metaphor for power?

875
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:09,599
I want to hear it. Are you gonna say, build

876
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,480
a cave? It's a hand. We know it's a hand.

877
00:47:12,519 --> 00:47:15,599
It's unlike anything. We don't know how, but it's a hand.

878
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:18,920
Because your God is not the true god. Your God

879
00:47:19,119 --> 00:47:21,559
is the figment of Muhammed's imagination. How much time I have?

880
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:23,599
Speaker 1: Thirteen seconds?

881
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 5: So now an interaction. Get ready, boys, I know you

882
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:28,840
want to change the subject. We're gonna say you're gonnadjust

883
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:29,880
these issues, so let's it go.

884
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 1: All right? Okay, So do you guys want three minutes,

885
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,960
four minutes or five minutes for open dialogue between the

886
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:41,480
four of you. Five minutes. Okay, can we put five

887
00:47:41,519 --> 00:47:45,360
minutes on the clock please, Bills. So what we're gonna

888
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,960
do here, guys, is we're gonna have it just open dialogue.

889
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:50,519
We're on the topic of Trinity versus dot Weed, and

890
00:47:50,519 --> 00:47:53,239
then we're gonna go into scripture next to authenticity for

891
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,199
the next round. So I will go ahead. Who wants

892
00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:00,159
to kick it off first? I guess we want to

893
00:48:00,199 --> 00:48:02,760
do that, Jay for me or our team.

894
00:48:02,599 --> 00:48:05,599
Speaker 3: Is like, I mean, the textual stuff is round two.

895
00:48:05,599 --> 00:48:07,039
I don't know why he just but the whole time

896
00:48:07,199 --> 00:48:07,960
because you can't.

897
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:08,119
Speaker 2: Deal with the.

898
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 4: Bible. The Bible.

899
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, Okay, so I want to know, I want

900
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,840
to know, hold on, hold on. What I'm going to

901
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:24,719
do is I'll just have someone who wants to kick

902
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,519
off the first question of this open dialog, and I'm

903
00:48:26,519 --> 00:48:31,199
going to start the timer. Who wants to do it? Nobody?

904
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,159
Speaker 5: Okay, Well let me know, I'll do it, Okay, Sam, I'm.

905
00:48:34,079 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: Going to turn the clock on once you go, uh,

906
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,079
and then this open downlogue between the four of you, guys,

907
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:39,679
try please not to interrupt each other so they can

908
00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:41,320
hear you because of zoom. So they really won't be

909
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:43,480
able to hear you if you guys interrupt each other. So, uh,

910
00:48:43,519 --> 00:48:44,960
go ahead, Samuell kick it off with you God.

911
00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, Daniel, I want to hear from your own mouth

912
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,760
the yaha a law? Is it a metaphor for his power?

913
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: It can be a metaphor for his power. It can

914
00:48:54,079 --> 00:48:57,719
be interpreted in many different ways. It does not contradict.

915
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,840
It does not contradict, so hate. It does not contrad monotheism.

916
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,920
You can have an shary position and interpret it as

917
00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:07,039
a metaphor, or you can have a thirty position and

918
00:49:07,599 --> 00:49:10,320
differently that explained to me? How it contradicts?

919
00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:10,880
Speaker 5: You?

920
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:11,599
Speaker 1: Can?

921
00:49:11,639 --> 00:49:13,880
Speaker 2: You? Can you explain to me? I answered your question?

922
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,800
How does how does a hand? How does God having

923
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:21,880
a hand? However it's interpreted contradict monotheism? Can you explain this?

924
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:22,599
Speaker 4: How?

925
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:26,119
Speaker 2: How does how does having a hand? How does a hand? Contradict?

926
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,599
Tell me monotheism? Explain it? No, you asked me questions

927
00:49:29,639 --> 00:49:32,519
open dialogue. You asked me a question and I answered you.

928
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,760
Now answer my question? Are you I answered your question?

929
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:38,239
I answered your question. Now you answer my question?

930
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:39,519
Speaker 3: Your position?

931
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 2: What what you I've studied.

932
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: You've studied it. You won't say your position?

933
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 5: Are you what?

934
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,880
Speaker 2: I have studied all of them. It's irrelevant debates.

935
00:49:54,039 --> 00:49:55,519
Speaker 3: Study to the.

936
00:49:55,480 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 2: Topic, Stick to the topic. Explained to me, moderator operator.

937
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,960
He doesn't let me answer the question. Doesn't let me

938
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:03,719
answer the question.

939
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,320
Speaker 5: No, because you're not. You're you're doing a dodgeball.

940
00:50:06,639 --> 00:50:09,599
Speaker 2: Let me answer. This is not this is not you

941
00:50:09,599 --> 00:50:12,159
don't have to like my answer. This is not interrogation.

942
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:15,519
This is not cross examination. You already asked me one question.

943
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:20,360
Let me ask you a question, now, Jay, is Catholicism modalism?

944
00:50:20,639 --> 00:50:21,400
Is it a heresy?

945
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:22,400
Speaker 1: Yes?

946
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:22,679
Speaker 2: Or no?

947
00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:25,639
Speaker 3: It can lead to that if they're consistent whether it.

948
00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 2: Yes, no, no? Is it is it or not?

949
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 3: Well, it's a false either or because not everybody who's

950
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,320
wrong is necessarily a heretic. They're not necessarily formal heretics.

951
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:36,840
You can have a material heresy.

952
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:41,079
Speaker 2: So the Catholic position, now, is it a Harris You're not.

953
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:44,519
Speaker 3: It depends on the person whether they're hardened in that heresy.

954
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:46,199
Speaker 2: No, No, it doesn't depend on a person.

955
00:50:46,199 --> 00:50:49,119
Speaker 3: There's I mean, you're asking you're asking me my Yeah,

956
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,199
I'm telling you my position. Tell you what my position is.

957
00:50:53,559 --> 00:50:55,599
Speaker 5: Let me help you the Catholic is we don't let

958
00:50:55,639 --> 00:50:57,559
him full of buster because he wants the time. Now,

959
00:50:57,599 --> 00:50:59,679
let me ask you the question, because I know that's

960
00:50:59,679 --> 00:51:00,239
what you're to do.

961
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,639
Speaker 2: What do you think about that Jay just called your church.

962
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 5: I'm a heretic, I deserve help. Jay pray for me

963
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:07,559
and asked the decission of the saints. Now let's come

964
00:51:07,559 --> 00:51:08,119
back to the Koran.

965
00:51:08,519 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 2: That's ironic that you're trying to pit me ask the question.

966
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:15,800
Speaker 4: Jazz scared when you went him believed the same thing.

967
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 2: You don't believe in the same god. You and Jay

968
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:20,280
don't believe in the same god. That's what the point

969
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:21,760
that we're trying to make me moderator.

970
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,559
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to do a better job, and I'm

971
00:51:25,559 --> 00:51:28,079
trying to have it. You know how about this? Can you?

972
00:51:28,159 --> 00:51:29,199
Lets say im asked this question?

973
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:30,880
Speaker 2: Dan, please go ahead.

974
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 5: And are you scared? Daniel? Ticket easy? All right? Now

975
00:51:33,039 --> 00:51:36,360
here's your Can you let me make my comment?

976
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:36,679
Speaker 1: Dude?

977
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 5: Well your Koran you'll never get here we go, all right,

978
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:47,920
I'm going to have created right Daniel? Yes, okay, So

979
00:51:48,079 --> 00:51:52,159
the headis that I cited when it says will appear

980
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,320
as flocks of birds interceeding for those that recited them.

981
00:51:57,400 --> 00:51:59,840
Do you take that metaphorically or do you take it actually.

982
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 2: This is a personification of the Quran, just like the

983
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,400
Bible versus that I mentioned about rivers flopping their hands

984
00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:11,199
their stones speaking in the psalms. I'll read them again.

985
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:15,760
And yeah, So you're making the claim that if the

986
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,840
Qoran is personified, that means it has a separate mind.

987
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,559
And I find the point to And see now you're interrupting.

988
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:23,920
Can I answer? Can I answer the question?

989
00:52:24,119 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 5: Good?

990
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:29,239
Speaker 2: So I pointed out that just because there's personification, that

991
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,719
doesn't imply that there is a separate mind, and I

992
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:36,119
cited versus the Bible. Your response, Your response was that no,

993
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:39,360
this is just personification in the Bible. So personification is

994
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,039
okay in the Bible. That doesn't imply that the Bible

995
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,800
stones have mines and that rivers have mines. That's fine.

996
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,599
But if the Quran does it, or if I do it.

997
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:52,880
Speaker 3: Your position is that question?

998
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,000
Speaker 5: You ask your position? Are you going to rant and

999
00:52:56,079 --> 00:52:58,760
rate because you want to eat up time when I'm

1000
00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:59,719
answering you.

1001
00:52:59,719 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 4: You want to ask the question shouldn't we be able

1002
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,840
to ask? No, you just asked a question we should

1003
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:10,440
be able to answer you. So no, no ask the question.

1004
00:53:10,519 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 5: I ask you a question.

1005
00:53:11,559 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 4: I'm asking you a question. Some answer the question.

1006
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:21,679
Speaker 5: Never get to get We're going to keep running moderations.

1007
00:53:21,880 --> 00:53:26,559
Speaker 4: I'll be able to ask questions.

1008
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:30,199
Speaker 1: Okay, at thirty seconds of o'clock, we're gonna let say

1009
00:53:30,199 --> 00:53:32,039
I finished this point, and then we'll go ahead and

1010
00:53:32,079 --> 00:53:33,199
let you ask your question.

1011
00:53:33,039 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 4: Making points, asking questions.

1012
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:37,639
Speaker 5: So no, Daniel, Daniel, let him make his stop attacking

1013
00:53:37,840 --> 00:53:41,719
straw man. Because the Psalm you will not find where

1014
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,000
it says, and the moon will come and intercede for

1015
00:53:45,119 --> 00:53:49,320
those that look to it and venerated it. The head

1016
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,119
dates I cited is about the day of resurrection. It's

1017
00:53:52,159 --> 00:53:55,400
about intercession. So I want to know what do you

1018
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,400
mean by personification when in those head dates it's talking

1019
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:03,159
about the Surrahs interceding with a law. Will there be intercession?

1020
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:07,000
Is that true? Will people need intercession before a law?

1021
00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:07,719
Is that true?

1022
00:54:08,039 --> 00:54:08,159
Speaker 4: So?

1023
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 5: What exactly do you mean by personification? Because your appeal

1024
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,760
to the psalms shows that you don't understand what a

1025
00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:15,760
personification is.

1026
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:22,280
Speaker 2: Answer without interruption. Answer, We'll see without interruption. Great answer.

1027
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:24,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'll give you j just some time as well,

1028
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,559
because he didn't get a chance. So go ahead.

1029
00:54:26,679 --> 00:54:27,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, sound didn't come to me here.

1030
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:32,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just dictating the question. So I cited verse

1031
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,400
of the Quran in chapter thirty six that even your hands,

1032
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:40,480
even your feet will intercede. There are many things that

1033
00:54:40,559 --> 00:54:43,960
will intercede on the day of judgment. That doesn't mean

1034
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,159
that those things have minds. Those things don't. Those things

1035
00:54:47,159 --> 00:54:50,119
don't imply that those things are God, that those are

1036
00:54:50,159 --> 00:54:53,360
God's minds. That's the thing. The point that we made

1037
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,360
against the Trinity is that Jesus has a separate mind,

1038
00:54:56,719 --> 00:54:59,639
a human mind, and the Father has a separate mind. Now,

1039
00:54:59,719 --> 00:55:03,320
Jason says that the mind of Jesus is a fully

1040
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:06,039
human mind, But does that mean the Father has a

1041
00:55:06,079 --> 00:55:09,079
fully human mind as well? If not, those are two

1042
00:55:09,079 --> 00:55:13,039
separate minds of God. So those are two separate minds,

1043
00:55:13,039 --> 00:55:16,320
two separate entities, to two separate beings. That's not analogous

1044
00:55:16,360 --> 00:55:20,079
to your hands interceding on your behalf on the day

1045
00:55:20,119 --> 00:55:23,920
of judgment, or the or on or your feet or

1046
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,239
anything else that will intercede on your behalf on the

1047
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:31,159
day of judgment. Explain how Jesus can have a separate

1048
00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:34,400
mind from the Father and they be the same mind.

1049
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:38,840
Speaker 5: So I did interrupt, So you want to answer Jay

1050
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:40,599
because he just wants to ask questions.

1051
00:55:40,639 --> 00:55:43,039
Speaker 3: So the separation comes in the fact that he has

1052
00:55:43,079 --> 00:55:46,039
a human mind that he assumed, but he retains the

1053
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,480
divine mind that he shares with the Father because he's

1054
00:55:48,519 --> 00:55:51,239
a divine person. He's not a human person. This is

1055
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,199
an important distinction in Christian theology that we don't accept

1056
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:58,119
the Nestorian teaching that Jesus is a human person. He's

1057
00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:01,119
a divine subject. That is, assume the human mind, a

1058
00:56:01,199 --> 00:56:04,400
human nature, human will, human energy. So he shared It's

1059
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,199
a both and and on either or. So your whole

1060
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:08,719
question is predicated on false either or.

1061
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: All right, so that the Father has a human mind.

1062
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:13,679
So so real quick, this has a time that the

1063
00:56:13,679 --> 00:56:14,280
Father doesn't have.

1064
00:56:14,639 --> 00:56:16,639
Speaker 1: That is time. But did you guys want to ask

1065
00:56:16,639 --> 00:56:18,280
you Jazz a question or did you guys have a

1066
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:18,960
question for you guys?

1067
00:56:19,079 --> 00:56:20,920
Speaker 4: There was I want.

1068
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 5: To answer that, go ahead of Jess. What's your question?

1069
00:56:22,559 --> 00:56:26,199
Speaker 4: Simple question? Why did those scribes omits uh for the

1070
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,519
in the Vulgate that Jesus is more today or the

1071
00:56:28,760 --> 00:56:31,079
well when it addresses him as the son speaking of

1072
00:56:31,159 --> 00:56:32,960
the person, not speaking of natures.

1073
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:36,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, ask me that in the scriptural debates, because I

1074
00:56:36,199 --> 00:56:36,400
want to.

1075
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:42,199
Speaker 4: Use this is theological? Is theological? I'm asking you theologically?

1076
00:56:42,639 --> 00:56:46,159
Is this son the person? They want to son?

1077
00:56:47,400 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 5: Excuse me?

1078
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:50,519
Speaker 4: Can you answer the question? Okay, answer it?

1079
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:53,280
Speaker 5: Talk over again one more time.

1080
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 4: I asked the question. Quite simple, you know one it

1081
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,320
says this son. Listen to my question.

1082
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 1: Jest.

1083
00:57:04,199 --> 00:57:06,159
Speaker 4: You don't have to change my question for me.

1084
00:57:06,559 --> 00:57:09,239
Speaker 5: You just my question about changing.

1085
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 4: Listen to what I said, matter asked.

1086
00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 5: Question.

1087
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,159
Speaker 1: He heard your question, Just let him answer. He heard

1088
00:57:16,199 --> 00:57:16,599
your question.

1089
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:21,199
Speaker 5: You said about scribes changing the text, so that is

1090
00:57:21,639 --> 00:57:24,559
referring to the veracity of the scriptures. But even if

1091
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:29,280
we go with your very imbalanced approach to textual criticism,

1092
00:57:29,920 --> 00:57:32,880
they must have done a very poor job because they

1093
00:57:33,039 --> 00:57:36,599
left intact the father loan. So even your argument buries

1094
00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:38,840
you because whatever the scribes did, if they inserted the

1095
00:57:38,880 --> 00:57:41,639
word son or omitted it, because there's a debate among

1096
00:57:41,719 --> 00:57:45,559
textual critics, that passage still has the father loan, So

1097
00:57:45,679 --> 00:57:47,559
they must have done a very poor job because they

1098
00:57:47,599 --> 00:57:49,960
didn't remove the word alone, and they left Mark thirteen

1099
00:57:50,039 --> 00:57:51,880
thirty two intact. Because I know what you're referring to

1100
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:53,760
Matthew twenty four to thirty six.

1101
00:57:54,280 --> 00:57:55,199
Speaker 4: So I wasn't my question?

1102
00:57:56,079 --> 00:57:59,000
Speaker 5: Okay, can you ask me about textual criticism?

1103
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 4: Doug used was not about textual criticism as you's this son.

1104
00:58:04,719 --> 00:58:08,039
Listen one more time, listen one more time. I'm asking

1105
00:58:08,159 --> 00:58:11,760
you describes me to change to omit all this son,

1106
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,519
and I'm asking you why is it specific for the

1107
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:16,840
son to be omitted? If the son is the same

1108
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:19,360
person you have the same knowledge as the father. Just

1109
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,719
a simple question, as the same knowledge as the father,

1110
00:58:24,039 --> 00:58:26,239
why does it ignorant.

1111
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:27,480
Speaker 5: Of it take?

1112
00:58:27,559 --> 00:58:29,519
Speaker 2: You can't answer the question? They can't answer it.

1113
00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 5: Actually, I move on.

1114
00:58:31,119 --> 00:58:33,599
Speaker 2: Okay, you didn't understand understand.

1115
00:58:35,199 --> 00:58:39,400
Speaker 1: Question? Chance, give me chance to answer this that we're

1116
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:40,719
going to move on to the scripture because we have

1117
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:41,920
went on a little bit longer here.

1118
00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:44,079
Speaker 5: Could I make a final point to Daniel one final point?

1119
00:58:44,159 --> 00:58:46,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, go ahead, if you can answer their question as well.

1120
00:58:46,159 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 5: Please all brought this debate. He shows that he's a

1121
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:50,880
very poor debater because he's attacking straw man. Unlike the

1122
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,679
examples of your hands and feet, the serves are supposed

1123
00:58:53,719 --> 00:58:56,519
to be uncreated and eternal. So you still live with

1124
00:58:56,559 --> 00:58:59,880
the dilemma that the chapters of the Crown uncreated a

1125
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:03,280
eternal we'll be speaking with God, So you have uncreated

1126
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:05,480
entities unlike your hands and feet. So I'm gonna now

1127
00:59:05,639 --> 00:59:09,840
agree with you. Your Kuran is a mindless entity who

1128
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:11,880
will appear to a law with out of mind argue

1129
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:14,119
with the law. So you're left with a mindless entity

1130
00:59:14,159 --> 00:59:17,320
interacting with your God. So either that means your God

1131
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,239
is speaking through different modes, or you have a set

1132
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,679
of one hundred and fourteen uncreated eternal divine objects who

1133
00:59:23,679 --> 00:59:27,000
are mindless and you have the audacity attack to Trinity.

1134
00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:28,039
So this is.

1135
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:31,079
Speaker 2: Answer is okay.

1136
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:34,159
Speaker 1: What we'll do guys next time is I'm going to

1137
00:59:34,199 --> 00:59:35,960
have a question answer for each person and when we

1138
00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:37,760
do this open dialoguecause I can see that this can

1139
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:40,039
easily spiral, and we'll fix that on the next one.

1140
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:43,599
Let's just move to scripture because we're getting there anyway,

1141
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:47,239
so we'll move on to the scripture apart. So team

1142
00:59:47,360 --> 00:59:48,719
isam you guys are going to take kick it off

1143
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,920
again unless you walk Team Christianity kick it off on

1144
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:52,280
this one.

1145
00:59:53,559 --> 00:59:56,519
Speaker 2: I let them go first. Sorry, Now do you want

1146
00:59:56,559 --> 00:59:56,880
to go first?

1147
00:59:57,800 --> 00:59:59,599
Speaker 4: I would like I would like some to hung himself

1148
00:59:59,639 --> 01:00:00,360
so he can go for this.

1149
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:03,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going first.

1150
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:06,159
Speaker 5: I'll use that or hang your religion, by the grace

1151
01:00:06,199 --> 01:00:09,199
of Jesus Christ and barrier. But now let's start time.

1152
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:11,039
By the way, Jay, you want me to take the entirefinment.

1153
01:00:11,159 --> 01:00:13,599
Speaker 1: So so just for the audience knows, this is going

1154
01:00:13,639 --> 01:00:17,079
to be round two. Now same thing, guys, three rounds,

1155
01:00:17,920 --> 01:00:20,679
four minutes each. Now we're going to talk about scripture

1156
01:00:20,679 --> 01:00:25,599
authenticity between the Quran and the and the Bible. So

1157
01:00:26,119 --> 01:00:28,400
I'll turn over to you, say im go ahead, all right.

1158
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, by the grace of Lord Jesus Christ, Muhammed's God

1159
01:00:30,519 --> 01:00:33,639
in judge. I'm now going to show the Muslims the

1160
01:00:33,719 --> 01:00:36,599
dilimma they're in because I'm not debating a bark Erman

1161
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,119
who doesn't care about Mohammad. I'm debating Muslims or supposedly

1162
01:00:40,159 --> 01:00:42,960
take the position of Muhammad. So i'mppeeling to Muhammad because

1163
01:00:42,960 --> 01:00:44,920
they believe in them. I pray they repent and turn

1164
01:00:44,960 --> 01:00:47,440
away from him because he's under the feet of Jesus Christ.

1165
01:00:47,519 --> 01:00:50,800
But coming to that point, any time a Jazz attacks

1166
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:54,320
the Bible, he shows that he's smarter than Mohammad better

1167
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,280
than Muhammad, knows more than Mohammad. Why because the consistent

1168
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,440
teaching of the Qoran and the sound narration. So we're

1169
01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:02,119
going to get into is that Muhammad confirmed the very

1170
01:01:02,239 --> 01:01:04,880
scriptures that the Jews and Christians had in their possession

1171
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,960
at his time. And the Koran says that Jesus confirmed

1172
01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,000
the very scriptures between his hands at his time. Unless

1173
01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:13,159
now he just wants to come up with some new

1174
01:01:13,239 --> 01:01:16,679
set of scriptures, the only scriptures that would have been

1175
01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:18,840
in existence time of Jesus up to Muhammad are the

1176
01:01:18,960 --> 01:01:21,840
very scriptures that have variations, just like the Koran does.

1177
01:01:22,280 --> 01:01:24,239
Let me just go through a slew of versus for

1178
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:27,079
the sake of time. Chapter two, Verses forty to forty four,

1179
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:30,880
Chapter two, verse eighty nine, Chapter two vers ninety one,

1180
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,679
Chapter two verses one oh one, Chapter two, verse one thirteen,

1181
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:37,559
Chapter two verse one twenty one, Chapter two verse one

1182
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:41,079
thirty six, Chapter three, verses three to four, Chapter three,

1183
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:45,639
verse fifty, Chapter three vers sorry not Chapter three, Chapter four,

1184
01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:48,000
verse forty seven. And then we go to chapter five

1185
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,199
and we read verses forty three to forty eight, sixty six, six,

1186
01:01:51,239 --> 01:01:53,760
sixty eight, and on and on. It goes and then

1187
01:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,920
the sound narrations. So hey, jas, make my day, help

1188
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,400
me to hang. You attack the Bible for variations because

1189
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,559
you show that you know more than Muhammad. That means

1190
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:04,360
you expose him as a false prophet. But if you

1191
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:06,719
believe in Muhammad, you have to accept the Bible. And

1192
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:09,039
he's still a false prophet because Muhammad was an Umi.

1193
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:12,320
He did not know that his kron contradicts the Bible. Now,

1194
01:02:13,039 --> 01:02:15,519
the same arguments that they're gonna level against Scripture, I

1195
01:02:15,559 --> 01:02:18,519
will use to bury their belief in scripture because Hejazz

1196
01:02:18,599 --> 01:02:21,599
is going to have to complete and talk about the aharuf?

1197
01:02:22,199 --> 01:02:25,480
What are they exactly? What are the seven aharruf? Over

1198
01:02:25,639 --> 01:02:28,280
thirty five opinions given by scholars? And we know it

1199
01:02:28,320 --> 01:02:30,920
cannot be dialectal because I'm going to show from a

1200
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:35,400
hadith in Bukhati that Olmar heard Hasham recite chapter twenty

1201
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,519
five of the Koran so differently. He dragged him to

1202
01:02:38,679 --> 01:02:41,400
Muhammad and Mahmad said, yes, I taught it to him

1203
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:45,239
this way, and Olmar recited, I taught the chapter two

1204
01:02:45,360 --> 01:02:48,679
this way. But they were both Croatians, spoke the same dialects,

1205
01:02:48,719 --> 01:02:51,519
So it cannot be dialectal differences. And then we're going

1206
01:02:51,599 --> 01:02:54,920
to add to the problem the missing versus and surahs

1207
01:02:55,079 --> 01:02:57,960
found in the codeses of Abullah ibn Masud uh By

1208
01:02:58,000 --> 01:03:00,000
bin Kab, two of the four men that Muhammed said

1209
01:03:00,159 --> 01:03:02,800
learned the Koran from, He didn't say, say it mun Tabit.

1210
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,639
He said, learn the Korn from Abbit Massoud, who vibin

1211
01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:09,400
cop And yet they contradicted each other and your othmonic

1212
01:03:09,599 --> 01:03:13,280
codex Mosaf because they are missing versus and missing service.

1213
01:03:13,519 --> 01:03:16,199
So much for the perfectly preserved chron. But then add

1214
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:20,480
to insult injury, your oathman decided to burn copies of

1215
01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:22,920
the Koran that were in conflict to the point that

1216
01:03:23,079 --> 01:03:25,880
Muslims are about to come to blows. You don't come

1217
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:30,119
to blows over minor differences. And he had the korans burn,

1218
01:03:30,519 --> 01:03:33,559
and yet Abdilivan Masoud refused, to the point that your

1219
01:03:33,639 --> 01:03:39,719
sources say that Othman instigated a mob reaction against Abdolivered Masud,

1220
01:03:40,159 --> 01:03:43,199
who got beat and his bones broken because he thought

1221
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:45,400
his knowledge of the chron was superior to your Saiah

1222
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:51,000
ibn Tabit, who was an Ansadi. Then we add insult

1223
01:03:51,079 --> 01:03:53,400
and injury. What do you do with the different pairod.

1224
01:03:53,719 --> 01:03:57,440
According to your Muslim sources, there were twenty five paiad

1225
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:01,760
by the time. Ifn Rijah had came centuries later, three

1226
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:04,639
hundred years later after the death of your prophet, he's

1227
01:04:04,679 --> 01:04:07,920
the one who standardized seven. By who's the forty? So

1228
01:04:08,079 --> 01:04:10,639
my challenge you is show me anywhere in your Quran

1229
01:04:11,199 --> 01:04:15,159
or your authentic tradition where your God sanctioned all these

1230
01:04:15,239 --> 01:04:20,519
paidot and authorized ib Mujahit to standardize seventh pia and

1231
01:04:20,639 --> 01:04:23,360
these paidot are not identical. And then I want you

1232
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,800
to explain to me what the ahuf are. And then

1233
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:27,840
we're gonna go into the missing verses and we're gonna

1234
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:31,440
go into the missing time. Okay, so let's have a

1235
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:32,079
found all right.

1236
01:04:32,679 --> 01:04:35,719
Speaker 1: Okay, we will turn it over to team Azad for

1237
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,599
round one. And this is authenticity of scripture one sect.

1238
01:04:39,639 --> 01:04:43,159
Speaker 4: Let me just reset my time there, we go.

1239
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:47,199
Speaker 1: Stop, We'll start on our side once you start speaking.

1240
01:04:48,039 --> 01:04:53,360
Speaker 4: Okay, sounds good, Yeah, you can stop. So here's the thing.

1241
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:57,880
Revelation comes with the expectation of validation. Scriptural texts and

1242
01:04:58,000 --> 01:05:01,639
doctrines are authentic. We traced back to the figures to

1243
01:05:01,800 --> 01:05:04,639
whom they were revealed in the way that they were revealed,

1244
01:05:05,079 --> 01:05:09,079
otherwise they are inauthentic. Christians believe that the Testament can

1245
01:05:09,159 --> 01:05:12,159
go back to Jesus Christ and his apostles. However, some

1246
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:16,519
disagrees because Sam said in his live stream with Crisco

1247
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,159
that the disasterment comes after the time of Christ, probably

1248
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,800
the second century. So I guess it's not really that

1249
01:05:22,960 --> 01:05:25,559
early good that he omitted the first century. Well done,

1250
01:05:25,639 --> 01:05:28,400
some to continue with this. The books of the Bible

1251
01:05:28,440 --> 01:05:32,599
as we have them today, we can't authenticate them. We

1252
01:05:32,679 --> 01:05:36,760
can't trace their lineage back. We call the stematics or genealogy.

1253
01:05:37,119 --> 01:05:40,119
You have different manuscripts at different times. Are we're trying

1254
01:05:40,159 --> 01:05:43,320
to understand are they written, why they're known with whom.

1255
01:05:44,159 --> 01:05:45,559
The thing that we have to keep in mind is

1256
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:49,199
that describes who've written these things, and the authors do

1257
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,800
not identify themselves as having been inspired whatsoever. And we're

1258
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:56,199
very little knowledge as to where and when these things

1259
01:05:56,239 --> 01:05:59,039
were written. For example, if I were to give the

1260
01:05:59,119 --> 01:06:03,320
most famous risks the Bible, John three sixteen, academic scholars

1261
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,039
don't know if Jesus actually said those words. We think

1262
01:06:07,199 --> 01:06:10,440
it could be the author or a later scribe. In fact,

1263
01:06:10,679 --> 01:06:13,440
even the words of that very verse the most famous,

1264
01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:16,599
the most popular, has a difference in it. They've changed

1265
01:06:16,639 --> 01:06:19,480
it to say that Jesus is no longer begotten. The

1266
01:06:19,599 --> 01:06:22,320
thing is, if they can't get their most famous verse right,

1267
01:06:22,599 --> 01:06:25,679
what else can they get wrong? What about the shamai Israel?

1268
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,519
When Moses in the Book of Deuteronomy has to explain

1269
01:06:30,639 --> 01:06:33,960
who God is? That differs to the Greeks of triagents

1270
01:06:34,119 --> 01:06:36,440
and a difference with what Jesus says in the in

1271
01:06:36,559 --> 01:06:39,559
the Testament, in each gostel. So if Jesus can't get

1272
01:06:39,559 --> 01:06:43,400
his basic beliefs rights in the Testaments, Moses makes mistakes

1273
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:46,000
in the Old Testament, then these are scriptures I can't

1274
01:06:46,039 --> 01:06:48,360
believe in. And these prophets seem to have done a

1275
01:06:48,519 --> 01:06:50,840
very bad job, especially if one of them were meant

1276
01:06:50,840 --> 01:06:54,320
to be Psalm's God. Let's continue here we have that.

1277
01:06:56,239 --> 01:06:59,159
Let's consider Isaiah chapter forty, verse eight. It says that

1278
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,400
the word of God will stand forever. Jesus says something

1279
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,760
similar in Matthew five eighteen, that not the smallest letter,

1280
01:07:06,239 --> 01:07:11,039
not the least stroke of a pen, will disappear from scripture. Unfortunately,

1281
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:14,760
this prophecy is false. How do we know this? They

1282
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,079
admit that don't know too. Manuscripts are the same, down

1283
01:07:18,159 --> 01:07:20,559
to the letters and the strokes. And I want you

1284
01:07:20,639 --> 01:07:24,079
to notice here, Jay cannot identify for me which biblical

1285
01:07:24,159 --> 01:07:27,679
tradition you holds to textually, and neither can Sam. Sam says,

1286
01:07:27,719 --> 01:07:30,159
the only textual tradition you would accept if it's from

1287
01:07:30,199 --> 01:07:33,239
a Trinitarian. You don't know what the early Christians believed

1288
01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:35,480
in the first century, so how can you make that

1289
01:07:35,559 --> 01:07:38,679
distinction and determination. I would add one more thing here

1290
01:07:39,440 --> 01:07:43,119
that it's actually a list kept by the Jews, but

1291
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,519
the changes that they made the scripture. This isn't a

1292
01:07:46,599 --> 01:07:51,360
Muslim invention. Historically there's a list called the changes by

1293
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:56,880
the scribes tikun sofam describes changed words in the toler

1294
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,639
We find that in the Christian version of the of

1295
01:08:00,719 --> 01:08:04,000
the Old Testament that those changers are also present there.

1296
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:07,559
So we ask ruling over the fact that changes when

1297
01:08:07,599 --> 01:08:09,960
we ad vice scribes, did Jews say yes? And the

1298
01:08:10,039 --> 01:08:12,480
Christians have it in their Bible? And these are not

1299
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:17,000
menial changes? We continue here. Christian scholars believe that the

1300
01:08:17,079 --> 01:08:20,560
Bible could be reliable for two reasons. One that it's

1301
01:08:20,720 --> 01:08:23,560
early enough in time to the time of Jesus and

1302
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,600
two the vast amount of manuscripts that they have. The

1303
01:08:26,720 --> 01:08:30,560
problem here, however, is if some appeals to those scholars

1304
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:33,319
and their reason, and then the same metrics when used

1305
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,000
for the Koran completely authenticated. We know exactly what the

1306
01:08:37,079 --> 01:08:40,159
Koran is. We can recreate its prototype text, we have

1307
01:08:40,239 --> 01:08:42,279
a stammard that we can develop for it, and we

1308
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:44,279
have the manuscripts from the lifetime of the profits of

1309
01:08:44,359 --> 01:08:46,000
one novel. All he was solid.

1310
01:08:46,199 --> 01:08:49,760
Speaker 1: Sorry we will no no, no, I just say I

1311
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,319
was giving you the last ten seconds A sorry, that's

1312
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:58,039
time right there. No, it's fine. Okay, So that completes

1313
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,880
round one of topic two, which is authenticity of scripture.

1314
01:09:03,159 --> 01:09:05,319
We're gonna do. Go ahead, mo, we're gonna turn it

1315
01:09:05,319 --> 01:09:07,600
real quick, quick work from our sponsor, guys that we're

1316
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:13,800
gonna get right back into it. Go mo, this batters.

1317
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:15,159
If you guys gotta use the bathroom or whatever, go

1318
01:09:15,199 --> 01:09:16,800
ahead and go real quick this episode.

1319
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:18,439
Speaker 5: You want me to take this for if you want

1320
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:19,000
what do you want to do?

1321
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:22,359
Speaker 3: Yeah you can. I'll have maybe one or two points

1322
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:23,640
I can do briefly on that.

1323
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:26,079
Speaker 1: Okay, go ahead, more read through it and then yeah, guys,

1324
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:28,600
and we'll get right back into it after this episode

1325
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:31,079
is sponsored by The Kid's Guide.

1326
01:09:31,720 --> 01:09:35,479
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Speaker 1: Thank you so much more appreciate that the show bringing

1346
01:10:53,399 --> 01:10:57,319
on a round two guys of authenticity of the scripture

1347
01:10:57,680 --> 01:11:00,640
is going to be on team Christianity. I believe you wanted.

1348
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:01,680
We're going to take this one right.

1349
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just have one brief point, then I'll hand

1350
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:07,079
it back over to Sam. Yeah. I think that he

1351
01:11:07,199 --> 01:11:09,880
jaws unknowingly sort of shot himself on the foot there,

1352
01:11:09,960 --> 01:11:17,640
because the text that Sam listed presupposed that you could

1353
01:11:17,680 --> 01:11:21,199
go and confirm the new revelation with the old. So

1354
01:11:21,319 --> 01:11:23,560
if I were to set up a hypothetical scenario of

1355
01:11:23,640 --> 01:11:27,600
a sixth seventh century Jew are Christian hearing this message,

1356
01:11:28,039 --> 01:11:30,520
hearing it for the first time, it's being revealed seventh century,

1357
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,319
I should say, and we're told that we can go

1358
01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:36,239
to check it against the prior revelation. If the prior

1359
01:11:36,319 --> 01:11:39,199
revelation is corrupt, how foolish then that we're checking it

1360
01:11:39,239 --> 01:11:42,279
against something corrupted. And in fact, the texts actually don't

1361
01:11:42,279 --> 01:11:44,840
say that the prior revelation is corrupted. That's a made

1362
01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:49,359
up thing that he's attacking on. Later on, go ahead, Sam, Yeah, Now,

1363
01:11:49,640 --> 01:11:50,239
I want.

1364
01:11:50,079 --> 01:11:53,279
Speaker 5: To congratulate a jazz for now doing what I said,

1365
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:55,960
and he pretty much destroyed his religion because I appeal

1366
01:11:56,000 --> 01:11:58,319
to mom. But he'll be able to biblical scholars. Isn't

1367
01:11:58,359 --> 01:12:01,279
an ironic a Christians? Mamma is a false prophet? An

1368
01:12:01,279 --> 01:12:07,520
antichrist is appealing to Muhammad. He's appealing to uninspired textual critics,

1369
01:12:07,560 --> 01:12:11,000
which means he just proved these scholars know better than

1370
01:12:11,039 --> 01:12:13,399
his prophet. Good job he does. Why are you still

1371
01:12:13,439 --> 01:12:16,399
a Muslim? You need to repent. So if these textual

1372
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:19,960
critics that you are selectively slighting and misquoting because you

1373
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,640
don't quote in context, all right, Muhammad is wrong. Allah

1374
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,520
is wrong because Mohammad had no problem with the variations

1375
01:12:27,560 --> 01:12:29,880
and the manuscripts that existed amongst the Jews and Christians,

1376
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,159
unless you're saying he was that much of an umi,

1377
01:12:32,279 --> 01:12:35,439
that much ignorant. He didn't know that the Christians their

1378
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:39,399
Old Testament would have variations with the Jewish scriptures because

1379
01:12:39,439 --> 01:12:42,720
he confirmed them. You'll find that in chapter three, verses

1380
01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:46,079
three to four, five, verse forty eight, Chapter two versus

1381
01:12:46,159 --> 01:12:48,439
forty forty four. But then Tad insult an injury to

1382
01:12:48,520 --> 01:12:52,279
your case in chapter three, verse fifty. In chapter five,

1383
01:12:52,399 --> 01:12:55,119
verse forty six. In chapter sixty one, verse six, it

1384
01:12:55,159 --> 01:13:00,000
says Jesus confirmed Musseddep and Limabina Yadeh confirm the scripture

1385
01:13:00,159 --> 01:13:03,520
between his hands. Well, did Allah not know that at

1386
01:13:03,560 --> 01:13:06,600
the time of Jesus there were different textual traditions of

1387
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,119
the Old Testament that were not uniformed. They had variations.

1388
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:12,119
So is he deceiving Jesus? Did your God deceive Jesus

1389
01:13:12,159 --> 01:13:14,640
to confirm all the scriptures? Not a word about the

1390
01:13:14,720 --> 01:13:18,560
variations proving textual corruption? So you know more than your

1391
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:21,079
God and your prophet. Why are you a Muslim? But

1392
01:13:21,199 --> 01:13:24,000
now let's talk about the variant readings in your Qoran

1393
01:13:24,199 --> 01:13:28,199
that are significant that you don't find in the Othmonic codecs.

1394
01:13:28,239 --> 01:13:30,800
For example, chapter thirty seven, verse twelve of the Churn.

1395
01:13:30,880 --> 01:13:32,840
When you read it today, it says, in fact, you

1396
01:13:33,000 --> 01:13:36,560
are astonished by their denial while they ridicule you. But

1397
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:40,439
Imantamia uses a variant to prove that your God gets

1398
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:43,760
shocked and amazed. And here's how he quotes it, In fact,

1399
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:48,159
I was astonished by their denial while they ridicule you. So, now, Ijaz,

1400
01:13:49,359 --> 01:13:52,800
who's getting astonished? Does your God get astonished a jeptu

1401
01:13:53,359 --> 01:13:56,520
or you were astonished? That's not the same and it

1402
01:13:56,600 --> 01:14:00,640
doesn't affect theology because shows that your God is affected

1403
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:03,199
by your actions in time, which means he was caught

1404
01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:06,560
by surprise. So this is a meaningful variant. But wait,

1405
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,119
we got another variant chapter thirty three, verse six, according

1406
01:14:10,199 --> 01:14:13,840
to the Ubai bin Kapp as well as Abdullah Ebin

1407
01:14:13,880 --> 01:14:18,439
Masud and others, a host of them Mujahid Katl Hassan.

1408
01:14:19,199 --> 01:14:23,279
There was an additional line in thirty three sixty for

1409
01:14:23,399 --> 01:14:27,279
thirty three verse six where it says, and he is

1410
01:14:28,039 --> 01:14:31,680
a father to you and his wives are your mothers.

1411
01:14:32,000 --> 01:14:34,920
A father to you and his wives are your mothers.

1412
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,520
Where is that phrase a father to you? And this

1413
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,439
is confirmed by Muhammad Asad ab Yusefali, which is why

1414
01:14:41,760 --> 01:14:44,760
Muhammad Asad includes the words a father to them a

1415
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:48,279
father to you in brackets. That's significant, don't you think?

1416
01:14:48,399 --> 01:14:50,279
But where is it now? How much time I have?

1417
01:14:50,399 --> 01:14:52,720
Because I got a lot of these fifty seconds shows

1418
01:14:52,760 --> 01:14:53,520
Kron is corrupted?

1419
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:55,399
Speaker 1: How many twelve seconds?

1420
01:14:55,960 --> 01:14:58,960
Speaker 5: Twelve second? Anyway, the point is your own standard berries

1421
01:14:59,039 --> 01:15:02,039
or Kron. Because there are no two chronic manuscripts that

1422
01:15:02,079 --> 01:15:05,279
are one hundred percent identical. Point to the two chronic

1423
01:15:05,319 --> 01:15:07,560
manuscripts that are time identical.

1424
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,399
Speaker 1: Let's see, all right, turn it back to the team.

1425
01:15:10,520 --> 01:15:12,600
Is love bottom of the second round?

1426
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:15,840
Speaker 4: Yep, So let me just wrench through this quickly.

1427
01:15:16,079 --> 01:15:17,399
Speaker 2: Wait, can I make some points first?

1428
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:17,640
Speaker 3: Yes?

1429
01:15:19,159 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 2: So what the audience should know, like all that gobbledy

1430
01:15:22,039 --> 01:15:25,199
group that we just heard from the Christian side. When

1431
01:15:25,279 --> 01:15:28,239
it comes to the textual preservation of the Quran, we

1432
01:15:28,359 --> 01:15:33,760
have manuscripts, physical manuscripts that archaeological archaeologists have found that

1433
01:15:34,039 --> 01:15:36,399
date are radio carbon dated to the time of the

1434
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:41,640
prophet Peace be upon Him, that match with what Muslims read, memorize,

1435
01:15:41,680 --> 01:15:44,920
and recite today. There is nothing like that. When it

1436
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:48,319
comes to the Bible, the earliest complete manuscript of the

1437
01:15:48,399 --> 01:15:52,159
New Testament is from the fourth century, over three hundred

1438
01:15:52,239 --> 01:15:55,600
years after Jesus. So the audience needs to remember this

1439
01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,199
is a huge difference. How can we tell that between

1440
01:15:58,319 --> 01:16:01,880
the three hundred years that Jesus alive to the first manuscript,

1441
01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:05,159
complete manuscript of the New Testament being found, so many

1442
01:16:05,199 --> 01:16:08,119
of the teachings of Jesus haven't been distorted, have n't

1443
01:16:08,119 --> 01:16:10,680
been changed, haven't been altered for the sake of political

1444
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:14,560
expedience or whatever theological experience, whatever it may be. So

1445
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,840
this is a huge difference between the or on in

1446
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:20,479
the Bible. Let's look at apocryphal text. Let's look at

1447
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:25,680
the fact that the Catholic Old Testament has more books

1448
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:30,319
than the masoretic text of the Hebrew Bible. You have

1449
01:16:31,119 --> 01:16:33,920
entire books we're not talking about. Like all Stam can

1450
01:16:34,039 --> 01:16:36,960
bring up are like difference in pronoun usage, like yah

1451
01:16:37,039 --> 01:16:40,119
malun versus tam malun in Arabic. He doesn't even know Arabic.

1452
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:43,159
That's like pronouns, Like a difference in pronouns, and he

1453
01:16:43,319 --> 01:16:46,079
wants to make it a big Oh, this is so significant. Yeah,

1454
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:49,880
Muslims know about the ad Muslims memorize the different modes

1455
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,680
of recitation. So what even people, many people that I

1456
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:55,600
know have memorized them. But how about the Catholic Bible

1457
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:59,119
having the Book of Judith, having first and second Maccabees,

1458
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:02,520
having additions to the Book of Daniel, the additions to

1459
01:17:02,560 --> 01:17:04,920
the Book of Esther, the Book of Susannah, all of

1460
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,119
these editions that are not found in the Masoretic text.

1461
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,079
Then you have another variation of the Old Testament with

1462
01:17:11,279 --> 01:17:15,760
the Dead Sea Scrolls, the septuagen is the Catholic version.

1463
01:17:16,039 --> 01:17:19,199
You have all of these different manuscripts that are not

1464
01:17:19,479 --> 01:17:23,520
small little differences. There are entire books that are not found.

1465
01:17:23,920 --> 01:17:27,600
Now he wants to mention the suras from Obeban cap.

1466
01:17:28,199 --> 01:17:30,600
One thing that Muslims also know is that there is

1467
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:33,399
disagreement about whether certain verses are part of the Koran

1468
01:17:33,560 --> 01:17:36,359
or not. A very well known disagreement is on the

1469
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:40,800
besmla bis mila is that part of every sura of

1470
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:44,520
the Quran? Is it only part of There is a

1471
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:47,079
well known disagreement among the schools of thought on this.

1472
01:17:47,359 --> 01:17:49,279
But that's not some mind blown It's not like a

1473
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:53,199
completely different book that's not found in the Catholic version

1474
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:56,359
or the Orthodox version of the Bible. It's just one

1475
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,840
word bis mila. Or if you're looking at the the

1476
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:05,079
the different suras that you're claiming are missing. Any Muslim

1477
01:18:05,119 --> 01:18:07,439
who reads these, I can even read you the translation

1478
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:10,760
of these suras. They're just the d'a, the prayer that

1479
01:18:10,920 --> 01:18:14,720
is read in Khunut, in the pri in the Khunut prayer.

1480
01:18:15,279 --> 01:18:17,720
And there was a different disagreement among some of the

1481
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,560
companions on whether this is part of the Koran, just

1482
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:22,840
like there's a disagreement on the best mela, on the

1483
01:18:22,880 --> 01:18:26,520
bismula being part of every single verse or not. This

1484
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,720
is not like some missing book that we don't know about, Like,

1485
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:33,239
this is what Muslims are reciting in prayer every day

1486
01:18:33,520 --> 01:18:36,479
or every week on a regular basis. So you're trying

1487
01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:39,119
to make a big deal out of the Qoranic variation

1488
01:18:39,399 --> 01:18:42,840
to hide the fact that the text of the Bible

1489
01:18:43,039 --> 01:18:46,560
is not preserved. You can't find authentic manuscript within three

1490
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,680
hundred years of Jesus' life, let alone Moses. You have

1491
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,600
all of these variations with the Old Testament. The sects,

1492
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:57,000
the Christian denominations do not agree on what the books

1493
01:18:57,000 --> 01:18:59,760
of the Bible are. What is the canonical books of

1494
01:18:59,760 --> 01:19:02,720
the You have all of these disagreements, but we should

1495
01:19:02,760 --> 01:19:04,960
ignore all that. And you want to bring up yeah,

1496
01:19:05,039 --> 01:19:07,960
malun versus tom Adlon or edgip to it like this

1497
01:19:08,119 --> 01:19:11,760
is a joke. So your audience is ignorant of Arabic.

1498
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,760
That's why this seems like a big revelation to them.

1499
01:19:14,840 --> 01:19:16,560
But for Muslims it's laugh of time.

1500
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,479
Speaker 1: Go ahead, okay, thak for four minutes.

1501
01:19:20,439 --> 01:19:22,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just have two points, Sarah. First of all,

1502
01:19:22,319 --> 01:19:26,000
Daniel said the sub tuagent is the Catholic version, which

1503
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:29,399
is not true. It's that's the Orthodox Old Testament. This

1504
01:19:29,520 --> 01:19:32,479
really has nothing to do with the topic that we're discussing.

1505
01:19:32,640 --> 01:19:36,640
Because the Masoretic text was used by some of the Jews.

1506
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:39,079
There were other groups of Jews that also use the

1507
01:19:39,119 --> 01:19:41,439
subtu agent. So you seem to be totally unaware of

1508
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:43,680
any of that, which has nothing to do with which

1509
01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:47,039
ones are the correct canon. And Sam and I agree

1510
01:19:47,079 --> 01:19:48,920
on that point. So Sam will let you go.

1511
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, now, guys, noticed the deceit in the Smoke and Mirrors.

1512
01:19:52,439 --> 01:19:54,439
You see the deception on part of Daniel. He appealed

1513
01:19:54,479 --> 01:19:57,239
to the Birmingham Kuran, and then he compared that to

1514
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:00,720
the later codices, which were more complete, not to the

1515
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,880
papyri that appears from the second, third, fourth centuries. Now,

1516
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:07,680
when a challenge Daniel the Birmingham Koran that you say

1517
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,039
is from the time Muhammed, how many surahs are contained?

1518
01:20:11,159 --> 01:20:13,319
You have all one hundred and fourteen surahs. You have

1519
01:20:13,399 --> 01:20:16,359
every verse of every sur in the Birmingham Koran. See again,

1520
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:20,720
this kind of deceit and dishonesty is unbecoming someone who

1521
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:23,039
claims to follow the God of Truth. Now let's come

1522
01:20:23,079 --> 01:20:25,680
back to how we try to brush aside the variant readings.

1523
01:20:26,039 --> 01:20:28,159
Notice what I said about thirty seven to twelve. One

1524
01:20:28,239 --> 01:20:31,239
says you were astonished. The one has is God saying

1525
01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:34,279
I was astonished. Oh, but that's no big deal, that's

1526
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:36,680
something minor. We can brush it aside. Oh really, So

1527
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:40,399
are you acknowledging that the variant reading affects whether your

1528
01:20:40,479 --> 01:20:44,600
God can be impacted by the actions of his creatures

1529
01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:47,399
in time and space. Because I was astonished and you

1530
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:49,520
are astonished is not the same unless you think Muhammad

1531
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:52,399
is a lah and what Muhammad feels Allah feels. Thirdly,

1532
01:20:52,840 --> 01:20:56,880
notice again he compares apples and pineapples. He's comparing a

1533
01:20:57,000 --> 01:21:00,760
collection of different books the Bible, written by different authors

1534
01:21:01,239 --> 01:21:05,479
at different times and comparing it with one Koran that

1535
01:21:05,560 --> 01:21:09,359
supposedly came through one medium, and yet the companion's Muhammad

1536
01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:12,439
cannot agree on the content of that one Koran. You

1537
01:21:12,600 --> 01:21:16,319
just buried yourself, Daniel, because that argument works more forcefully

1538
01:21:16,319 --> 01:21:19,920
against your Koran, because you're comparing the work of one

1539
01:21:20,000 --> 01:21:23,760
author and his companions can't figure out how many sort us,

1540
01:21:23,880 --> 01:21:26,960
how many chapters with a collection of books written by

1541
01:21:27,039 --> 01:21:30,359
different people at different times, so there'll be some natural

1542
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:33,359
confusion whether this book really comes from an inspired author.

1543
01:21:33,840 --> 01:21:36,520
But we shouldn't find that problem with your Koran if

1544
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,720
there's only one medium and they all memorize the Koran perfectly,

1545
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:43,319
which is a lie from the pitavel. Moreover, deal with

1546
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,840
the actual argument I brought up. Abdullah ibn Masud is

1547
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:50,520
no Joshmo Obi bin Kab no Joshmo. They are two

1548
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:53,840
of the four men that your prophets said learn the

1549
01:21:53,920 --> 01:21:57,560
Koran from, and I have here traditions Sahi. That's an

1550
01:21:57,560 --> 01:22:01,079
Abdillah bent Massud recite it the Koran in front of

1551
01:22:01,359 --> 01:22:04,720
compantits Muhammad, and they agreed that his recitation is fresh

1552
01:22:05,159 --> 01:22:07,960
and the way it was revealed by Gabriel through Muhammad.

1553
01:22:08,000 --> 01:22:11,239
And yet your Othmanic Koran doesn't agree to the point

1554
01:22:11,319 --> 01:22:15,159
that your uthman wanted to burn Abdillah eben Masuit's khan.

1555
01:22:15,359 --> 01:22:19,199
Why if they are slight variations, you don't go to war.

1556
01:22:19,560 --> 01:22:21,920
You don't accuse each other of corrupting the Koran over

1557
01:22:22,039 --> 01:22:26,239
slight durations. Stop with the lies sailed Bukhati, volume six,

1558
01:22:26,399 --> 01:22:28,880
five oh nine, five ten. So again we're gonna ask you,

1559
01:22:29,239 --> 01:22:31,359
how come the competitis of Muhammad could not figure out

1560
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:34,600
how many chapters abdulah Ban Wassud said only one hundred

1561
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:37,079
and eleven, Obi bin Kopp said one sixteen, which you

1562
01:22:37,159 --> 01:22:39,680
tried to pass off as dua. Are you saying, Obi

1563
01:22:39,760 --> 01:22:42,119
bin Kapp, the master of the chronic reciters did not

1564
01:22:42,279 --> 01:22:44,920
know those two chapters were not suris but prayers. So

1565
01:22:45,079 --> 01:22:47,479
you know more than Ubai, which means that your prophet

1566
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,079
made a pathetic judgment call because he mentioned him as

1567
01:22:51,119 --> 01:22:54,479
one of the four. Not you, Daniel Hakikachu. Thank you

1568
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:57,319
for bearing your Koran and thank you for showing the

1569
01:22:57,399 --> 01:22:59,920
Mahma didn't know what he's talking about. Muhammad confirmed the Bible,

1570
01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,960
and you're saying, no, he's wrong. Why are you a Muslim? Repent?

1571
01:23:03,199 --> 01:23:06,039
Come to Jesus Mohammed's God and judge. Think my time

1572
01:23:06,159 --> 01:23:06,359
is up?

1573
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 1: All right? Now? You still got fifteen seconds, but if

1574
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:09,000
that are.

1575
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:12,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm saying, now stop what the paganism. Come to

1576
01:23:12,600 --> 01:23:15,159
Jesus moments God. But thank you, Daniel, you helped me

1577
01:23:15,279 --> 01:23:17,800
show that you don't believe Muhammad. You think Muhammad didn't

1578
01:23:17,800 --> 01:23:19,479
know what he's talking about, and I agree, and the

1579
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:21,279
scholars know more than Muhammad. Stop being a.

1580
01:23:21,359 --> 01:23:26,199
Speaker 1: Muslim, all right, and that is time So this is

1581
01:23:26,239 --> 01:23:27,920
going to be the bottom of the third round again

1582
01:23:28,000 --> 01:23:30,760
Authenticity of Scripture. So I'm going to turn into team

1583
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:32,560
as I'm to finish this up and then if you

1584
01:23:32,640 --> 01:23:36,079
guys want, we will go ahead and have another open

1585
01:23:36,159 --> 01:23:36,760
dialogue round.

1586
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:39,640
Speaker 5: You can tolerate it good, yeah, yeah, But what I'm.

1587
01:23:39,520 --> 01:23:41,199
Speaker 1: Gonna have to do is for this open dialogue round,

1588
01:23:41,199 --> 01:23:42,840
it's going to be a question answered. So both parties

1589
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:44,479
will be able to ask a question to the other party.

1590
01:23:44,560 --> 01:23:46,680
Other party answers and then they ask a question in return,

1591
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:48,680
but you have to answer the question. So that's how

1592
01:23:48,720 --> 01:23:50,600
we'll have to do a question answer for each each

1593
01:23:50,680 --> 01:23:52,920
party goes ahead and gets a question. We'll start with

1594
01:23:53,159 --> 01:23:55,960
U with Dan, he could just ask a question to

1595
01:23:56,000 --> 01:23:58,039
the team or to a particular person and then that

1596
01:23:58,119 --> 01:23:59,920
person answer that question. They can go ahead and ask

1597
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:01,720
another member of the team. That will keep a fair

1598
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:04,960
for five minutes on o'clock. So teamsam, are you guys ready?

1599
01:24:06,760 --> 01:24:09,000
But again this is your guys four minutes uninterrupted. Notes

1600
01:24:09,000 --> 01:24:11,880
to you guys for the last round of Authenticity in Scripture.

1601
01:24:12,720 --> 01:24:14,880
Whenever you guys start speaking, we'll turn the clock on.

1602
01:24:14,920 --> 01:24:18,880
Speaker 2: Go ahead, this is the last round, or do they

1603
01:24:19,039 --> 01:24:20,439
get a response after.

1604
01:24:20,560 --> 01:24:22,119
Speaker 1: No, this is the last round, and then it's opened

1605
01:24:22,119 --> 01:24:24,000
to all log after this go ahead.

1606
01:24:24,039 --> 01:24:32,319
Speaker 2: You just you're on mute. You're still on mute, he jes.

1607
01:24:34,760 --> 01:24:37,600
Speaker 4: Yeap, so I'll just starting the time out. So I

1608
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:40,159
think that's some to spent most of his time reading

1609
01:24:40,359 --> 01:24:43,840
lists of verses that he does not understand Jeff's consensus

1610
01:24:43,920 --> 01:24:46,600
among the early Muslims as to what the is and

1611
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:50,079
in fact what he's appealing to. Visit the codec from

1612
01:24:50,119 --> 01:24:52,760
some of the companions. These are only found in a

1613
01:24:53,279 --> 01:24:56,960
tradition that are to Jeffrey translated I think in the

1614
01:24:57,039 --> 01:25:00,039
nineteenth or twentieth century. It does not refer to the

1615
01:25:00,199 --> 01:25:04,319
actual physical manuscript that is actually known and dated and seen.

1616
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:08,039
So there's a difference between a tradition being said in

1617
01:25:08,279 --> 01:25:11,960
past as oppose the physical manuscript in existence. And the

1618
01:25:12,119 --> 01:25:15,239
same people that transmit to kdid the same people that

1619
01:25:15,359 --> 01:25:19,159
transmit the Koran, they transmitted to Masud. They transmitted through

1620
01:25:19,199 --> 01:25:21,920
the companions, and at least three of the seven chains

1621
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:24,800
that are well known, so there's no difference among the

1622
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:28,000
companions as the number of sewers in the Quran. Please

1623
01:25:28,039 --> 01:25:31,560
don't bring me something at art Jeffrey randomly translated that

1624
01:25:31,800 --> 01:25:35,279
no academical life accepts. And by academic here we refer

1625
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:38,199
to the Muslims who transmitted the Koran because they would

1626
01:25:38,239 --> 01:25:41,920
counted letter by letter, line by line psychometry. So we

1627
01:25:42,079 --> 01:25:45,199
actually have a way that we can mathematically know how

1628
01:25:45,279 --> 01:25:49,039
many a yats were written in manuscripts. It isn't done randomly.

1629
01:25:49,279 --> 01:25:51,359
So I'm not going to be like Sam and pretend

1630
01:25:51,439 --> 01:25:54,479
to know what the Quran says. There is consensus that

1631
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,680
the Muslims never took the Bible descripture. How do we

1632
01:25:57,800 --> 01:25:59,760
know that because a lot of commands is to Suo

1633
01:25:59,760 --> 01:26:02,680
Buck to testify and believe in the scriptures that he

1634
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,479
has revealed. And when we find us in the Quran,

1635
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:09,000
we find no companion saying that it is required as

1636
01:26:09,079 --> 01:26:12,000
a mission to believe in the Bible as it exists today.

1637
01:26:12,239 --> 01:26:15,359
There is no such compulsion, whereas we have been are

1638
01:26:15,439 --> 01:26:19,119
composed to believe that the revelations were given to profits

1639
01:26:19,159 --> 01:26:22,199
in the past. When he mentioned Jesus in the Kuran,

1640
01:26:22,640 --> 01:26:25,600
Jesus affirms the Revelation revealed it to him. This is

1641
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,640
what a lot mentions in the Kuran. He is not

1642
01:26:27,800 --> 01:26:30,439
testified to a book that came after him, which is

1643
01:26:30,479 --> 01:26:32,640
what some believes in. And let's be clear here we

1644
01:26:32,760 --> 01:26:36,640
have call forty seven sonariotop copy top copy survi Medino

1645
01:26:36,720 --> 01:26:40,279
one A. We have so many manuscripts after Kuran within

1646
01:26:40,359 --> 01:26:42,520
the first one hundred years of the prophet Muhammad, p

1647
01:26:42,600 --> 01:26:46,079
spe upon him that complete the Kuran. This is complete

1648
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:49,039
in distinction to the Bible, where you don't have anything

1649
01:26:49,079 --> 01:26:52,239
even similar to it. You have no second century manuscripts,

1650
01:26:52,600 --> 01:26:56,960
no third century manuscripts. How do we notice Elijah Hickson text,

1651
01:26:57,039 --> 01:27:00,720
your critic, he dates manuscripts, dates an entire institutes at

1652
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:03,600
the University of Moans, so that determines the propriety under

1653
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:06,840
manuscripts after New Testament. And they don't determine that there's

1654
01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:09,840
a single manuscript in the second century. And when it

1655
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,880
comes to the third century, as Sam has admitted, he

1656
01:27:13,039 --> 01:27:16,640
believes that Credets Nyaks in the fourth century is full

1657
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:20,159
of errors. Here seasoned lies, that's your most reliable manuscript,

1658
01:27:20,359 --> 01:27:23,680
if the most reliable physically, if still with lies, don't

1659
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,960
pretend to tell me what the Kuran says, because you

1660
01:27:26,039 --> 01:27:28,560
simply don't know it. And I'll end with this, The

1661
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:32,119
God of the New Testament you said, I don't think

1662
01:27:32,159 --> 01:27:36,359
he's intelligent, or how do I say this? Understand scripture?

1663
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:38,520
How could the God of the Old Testament and the

1664
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,560
New Testament forget his name in Exodus three fourteen in

1665
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:45,439
the Greek subtulogen the name that he's supposed to give

1666
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:49,479
is our own women. The being Jesus in New Testament

1667
01:27:49,600 --> 01:27:53,239
gives the wrong frise ego. He misquotes his own sacred name.

1668
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:57,560
That generation for generation must be mean. It's ridiculous. Titus

1669
01:27:57,640 --> 01:27:59,880
three nine. God has to tell you that don't be

1670
01:28:00,359 --> 01:28:03,880
genealogies because they're glad to foolish arguments. Two of your

1671
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:09,479
gospels use genealogies as a basis the messianic place of Christ.

1672
01:28:09,600 --> 01:28:12,560
It's ridiculous. I'm sorry. Address the questions under claims on

1673
01:28:12,640 --> 01:28:16,079
the manuscripts. Don't bring me random things that you don't understand.

1674
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:20,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, I mean, there's twenty seconds one of the

1675
01:28:20,479 --> 01:28:24,039
things about the Houronic manuscript. It seems like Sam only

1676
01:28:24,079 --> 01:28:27,560
knows about the Birmingham manuscript. There are many manuscripts if

1677
01:28:27,600 --> 01:28:30,079
you take attention. When he was speaking in the opening,

1678
01:28:30,199 --> 01:28:33,159
he listed the different code of Sees, the different manuscripts.

1679
01:28:33,439 --> 01:28:36,880
All of those together are the or on that we

1680
01:28:37,039 --> 01:28:39,880
read today. It's not just contained to one manuscript.

1681
01:28:40,239 --> 01:28:43,399
Speaker 1: All right, So what I'll do is, so, do you

1682
01:28:43,479 --> 01:28:45,000
guys want to do the open dialog or do you

1683
01:28:45,039 --> 01:28:46,720
guys want to move on to the third way?

1684
01:28:46,920 --> 01:28:48,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, if it doesn't go into like a free focus.

1685
01:28:49,399 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 1: So this is how we're going to do it, guys,

1686
01:28:51,239 --> 01:28:54,239
five minutes on o'clock. I will go ahead and kick

1687
01:28:54,279 --> 01:28:56,680
it off with whoever wants asked for a question. Let's say,

1688
01:28:56,680 --> 01:28:58,399
for example, who was asking Dan?

1689
01:28:58,840 --> 01:28:59,039
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1690
01:28:59,199 --> 01:29:00,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so Dan, when you ask your question, you can

1691
01:29:01,039 --> 01:29:04,479
direct to either to Sam or Jay. Once answer the question,

1692
01:29:04,560 --> 01:29:06,159
now they get to go ahead and direct the question

1693
01:29:06,279 --> 01:29:08,840
back to a member of whether it be you or

1694
01:29:09,319 --> 01:29:12,039
to Ejazz. So, and then you got to answer the question,

1695
01:29:12,199 --> 01:29:14,439
and then you get the ability to ask a counter

1696
01:29:14,560 --> 01:29:17,079
question back after you answer it. Okay, fair enough. That

1697
01:29:17,199 --> 01:29:19,560
way we're able to keep this thing moving. Everyone's able

1698
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,960
to be involved and to get their questions asked and answered,

1699
01:29:22,199 --> 01:29:24,399
and we can still have open dialogue here to some degree.

1700
01:29:25,039 --> 01:29:26,439
I'll turn it over to you, Dan. We got five

1701
01:29:26,479 --> 01:29:28,279
minutes on a clock, guys, let's be strict on the time.

1702
01:29:28,520 --> 01:29:32,079
Speaker 2: Go ahead, please, okay, can you either of you. Explain

1703
01:29:32,119 --> 01:29:36,000
to me how many Western scholars of the Bible believe

1704
01:29:36,119 --> 01:29:39,520
that the Old Testament can be traced back to Moses

1705
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:42,840
versus how many believe that the Qoran can be traced

1706
01:29:42,920 --> 01:29:44,640
to the life of the prophet Muhammad.

1707
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:48,720
Speaker 5: Do you want an answer that, jay, Sure? Yeah, Well

1708
01:29:49,279 --> 01:29:53,760
I have one better for you than Muslim scholar Western scholars.

1709
01:29:53,800 --> 01:29:56,079
I have your profit, so I keep appealing to your profit.

1710
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:59,039
So if what's the scholars are right, then join me

1711
01:29:59,119 --> 01:30:01,640
in saying Muhammed is an antichrist, a false prophet. I

1712
01:30:01,720 --> 01:30:04,319
appeal to your prophet. You appeal to Western scholars. And

1713
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:06,680
it depends on which Western scholars you want to appeal to,

1714
01:30:07,119 --> 01:30:10,520
because not all we scholars believe the same thing and

1715
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:13,520
hold the same presuppositions. But I can also appeal to

1716
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,960
Western scholars that don't think that your Qur'an as you

1717
01:30:16,079 --> 01:30:21,359
have it, it's even from Othman. It's actually from Abdolmatic

1718
01:30:21,680 --> 01:30:24,279
from the eighth centuries. But I did you better. I

1719
01:30:24,359 --> 01:30:26,399
went to Muhammad. Why do you have a problem Muhammad?

1720
01:30:26,479 --> 01:30:28,319
Why are you ashamed of Muhammad? He's your prophet, right,

1721
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:32,920
Your prophet tells me that the scriptures that Jesus had

1722
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,239
that Torah is the uncorrupt revelation of God, perfectly preserved,

1723
01:30:37,279 --> 01:30:39,960
and Jesus confirmed it. And since you believe that Torah

1724
01:30:40,359 --> 01:30:42,720
was given to Moses, your prophet did it for me.

1725
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:45,680
So if you give me ninety nine percent of uston scholarship,

1726
01:30:46,560 --> 01:30:50,039
then either your prophet is wrong and admit he is

1727
01:30:50,119 --> 01:30:52,640
and I agree is but for other reasons right, or

1728
01:30:52,680 --> 01:30:54,760
the scholars are wrong. You can't have your cake and

1729
01:30:54,840 --> 01:30:57,720
eat it too. Why do you keep doing jihad against

1730
01:30:57,720 --> 01:31:00,760
your prophet? Fisa bi la lah? Should I agree with them?

1731
01:31:01,079 --> 01:31:03,600
Speaker 4: Now? Yeah, this is a false dilemma because we have

1732
01:31:03,680 --> 01:31:04,560
the physical monugs.

1733
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:09,439
Speaker 1: Well, so now Sam, guests answer that I ask a

1734
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:11,920
question back in return, Let's put twenty seconds on the clock,

1735
01:31:11,960 --> 01:31:15,159
real quick. Go ahead, Sam, ask the question, and then

1736
01:31:15,159 --> 01:31:17,079
they get to respond answer your question to respond to you.

1737
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:21,079
Speaker 5: Okay, Now, you guys have been straw manning the arguments

1738
01:31:21,079 --> 01:31:24,079
I've been presenting. So now I'm going to ask both

1739
01:31:24,119 --> 01:31:27,560
of you give me the date of the oldest extent

1740
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:31,520
Mosaf that has all one hundred and fourteen chapters, the

1741
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:35,359
oldest copy that has one hundred and fourteen chapters, and

1742
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:38,680
point out to two chronic manuscripts that are one hundred

1743
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:39,520
percent identical.

1744
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:43,640
Speaker 2: Go ahead, So we address the question by saying there

1745
01:31:43,720 --> 01:31:46,920
is not one manuscript, there are several that date to

1746
01:31:47,039 --> 01:31:49,560
within the lifetime of the profit piece to be upon him.

1747
01:31:49,600 --> 01:31:52,399
You can go to Ejazz's opening statement. He lists them.

1748
01:31:52,479 --> 01:31:54,399
You didn't pay attention to what he said, so you're

1749
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:57,000
asking the same question over and over again. The answer

1750
01:31:57,079 --> 01:32:00,079
to how many Western scholars think that the pentitude the

1751
01:32:00,119 --> 01:32:03,800
Old Testament goes back to Moses is zero zero Western scholars.

1752
01:32:04,079 --> 01:32:07,520
How many Western scholars scholars of the Bible think that

1753
01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,960
the New Testament goes to the time of Jesus zero

1754
01:32:11,439 --> 01:32:15,159
zero Western scholars. How many academics of Quronic studies who

1755
01:32:15,159 --> 01:32:17,560
are non Muslim, by the way, they don't necessarily even

1756
01:32:17,880 --> 01:32:21,640
like Islam, believe that the Quran can be dated radiocarbon

1757
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:25,039
dated scientifically to the time of the prophet. That is

1758
01:32:25,079 --> 01:32:27,720
the academic consensus, and you can read about that in

1759
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,680
books like the Kurana Historical Critical Introduction by Nikolai Sinai

1760
01:32:32,199 --> 01:32:34,720
Sana and the Origins of the Quran by behn Am

1761
01:32:34,800 --> 01:32:38,039
Sadafy and Mossa and Godharzi and Islam and the Empires

1762
01:32:38,039 --> 01:32:40,800
of Faith by Sean Anthony. These are non Muslim, many

1763
01:32:40,840 --> 01:32:43,279
of them, and they believe that the Qur'an not just

1764
01:32:43,359 --> 01:32:47,359
one manuscript, but multiple manuscripts that are aligned and aligned

1765
01:32:47,399 --> 01:32:49,600
with what we as Muslims read and recite today. Of

1766
01:32:49,640 --> 01:32:53,640
the Quran is dated scientifically to the time of the prophet,

1767
01:32:53,720 --> 01:32:55,760
Peace be upon him. You can't say that about the

1768
01:32:55,800 --> 01:32:58,239
Old Testament going back to Moses. You can't say that

1769
01:32:58,319 --> 01:33:01,479
about the New Testament going back to Jesus. The earliest

1770
01:33:01,600 --> 01:33:04,600
full manuscript of the New Testament only goes to the

1771
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:09,039
fourth century, over three hundred years after Jesus lived. Why

1772
01:33:09,079 --> 01:33:09,880
don't you address that?

1773
01:33:10,319 --> 01:33:15,279
Speaker 4: But Doniel just says, but that manuscript is belongs in

1774
01:33:15,319 --> 01:33:18,399
the trash. Si says this strip.

1775
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:19,399
Speaker 5: I asked you question.

1776
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:25,640
Speaker 1: Okay, pause clock real quicker pause, pause, clock real fast.

1777
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:27,560
Did answer that question?

1778
01:33:28,159 --> 01:33:28,439
Speaker 2: It will?

1779
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:30,840
Speaker 5: Sammy'll ask you a question matter you I'm asking you

1780
01:33:31,079 --> 01:33:33,439
for me. Do you want to answer the question he

1781
01:33:33,520 --> 01:33:36,760
asked me? When I asked him the question? He then

1782
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:38,840
answered my answer to his question. Do I have a

1783
01:33:38,920 --> 01:33:40,000
right not to refute his lies?

1784
01:33:41,159 --> 01:33:42,840
Speaker 2: You can wait till we ask a question and then

1785
01:33:42,920 --> 01:33:43,560
refute the life.

1786
01:33:43,560 --> 01:33:45,800
Speaker 5: Okay, I'm just saying because he didn't stay on topic.

1787
01:33:46,199 --> 01:33:47,119
He didn't answer my question.

1788
01:33:47,199 --> 01:33:49,359
Speaker 2: You haven't stayed on topic whole debate.

1789
01:33:50,039 --> 01:33:51,960
Speaker 1: Okay, So this this is what this what we'll do.

1790
01:33:52,479 --> 01:33:54,560
Let me go ahead and uh. Let we'll let you

1791
01:33:54,600 --> 01:33:56,560
Jazz ask the question because they did answer the question

1792
01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:58,640
just now and then and then you can go and

1793
01:33:58,720 --> 01:34:00,479
then that will probably it'll probably go to you to

1794
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:01,960
answer and then you can go ahead and address what

1795
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:02,119
you have.

1796
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:03,680
Speaker 5: Let me know if you want to say something to brother.

1797
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:04,439
I don't want to have out.

1798
01:34:04,439 --> 01:34:08,039
Speaker 4: Okay, So my question is to Jay dial when Sam Chumun,

1799
01:34:08,159 --> 01:34:10,119
let me just quote this so I don't get it wrong.

1800
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:13,880
When Sam Shumun says, and he agrees with the statement,

1801
01:34:14,800 --> 01:34:19,319
the siniatical documents is full of errors and heretical statements,

1802
01:34:19,680 --> 01:34:23,640
struggles and hopefully someday in the near future should be

1803
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:26,880
discarded to the trash. Can is the alignment with your

1804
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:27,520
beliefs or not?

1805
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:31,119
Speaker 5: Well? Your article I said that, Jay, I just want

1806
01:34:31,119 --> 01:34:32,399
to ask him. Give me the link to the article

1807
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:34,159
I said those exact words. Give me the It's on

1808
01:34:34,279 --> 01:34:34,640
my Twitter.

1809
01:34:34,760 --> 01:34:38,399
Speaker 4: It's on my Twitter right now. What's on my twitter?

1810
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:40,800
You can go to it on my Twitter you can

1811
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:42,760
go to it, and I can actually quote from you

1812
01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:48,119
from chrisco that the New Testament comes in the second century,

1813
01:34:48,359 --> 01:34:50,439
not even the first to my twitter.

1814
01:34:50,840 --> 01:34:54,520
Speaker 3: So the whole of this argument supposing that something has

1815
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:56,880
to be immediately recorded at the time of the event,

1816
01:34:57,159 --> 01:35:01,279
and you're just using your own positions, uh standards to

1817
01:35:01,359 --> 01:35:03,840
judge our position. We don't believe that. We believe in

1818
01:35:04,000 --> 01:35:07,640
the ability of oral tradition to transmit just as well

1819
01:35:07,680 --> 01:35:10,600
as something written. So you have an artificial standard that

1820
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:13,680
you expect of us that is not our standard. So

1821
01:35:13,880 --> 01:35:16,039
I don't believe. We don't worship a book. We're not

1822
01:35:16,119 --> 01:35:17,680
a book based religion like you are.

1823
01:35:18,279 --> 01:35:21,760
Speaker 5: So that was my question, your question.

1824
01:35:24,319 --> 01:35:26,800
Speaker 4: I read. Just to be clear, you didn't answer my question.

1825
01:35:27,239 --> 01:35:30,159
Speaker 3: We don't follow on codesy, I don't have your suppositions,

1826
01:35:30,279 --> 01:35:34,840
so we're not Protestants at the.

1827
01:35:38,640 --> 01:35:41,640
Speaker 4: Answer my questions questions.

1828
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:42,680
Speaker 3: That it's basically.

1829
01:35:44,319 --> 01:35:45,239
Speaker 4: Do you agree.

1830
01:35:47,439 --> 01:35:51,159
Speaker 3: It doesn't matter, trust, it won't matter which text.

1831
01:35:51,399 --> 01:35:54,920
Speaker 4: A million of trash, As you said, it doesn't, it

1832
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:56,920
doesn't match. It belongs in the trash.

1833
01:35:57,760 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 1: That's bess.

1834
01:36:00,399 --> 01:36:02,319
Speaker 3: The codex sign I, I guess, is not what the

1835
01:36:02,359 --> 01:36:04,760
tradition hinges on that's what your argument hinges on.

1836
01:36:05,199 --> 01:36:08,560
Speaker 4: It's the earliest complete does matter, it doesn't.

1837
01:36:09,960 --> 01:36:15,039
Speaker 1: Here, I'll say that's okay. So I'm gonna let Sam

1838
01:36:15,119 --> 01:36:17,920
go ahead and come in. Because there were some allegations

1839
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:20,760
made about something he said or whatever. Maybe and he

1840
01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:22,520
did answer your question. He says, I know that you don't.

1841
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:25,680
You don't like to answer, but he did answer it.

1842
01:36:26,159 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 4: No, I asked if he agreed, but snup, I answer it.

1843
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:31,680
Speaker 1: And now we'll go ahead and go what Sam said

1844
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:32,439
on those comments.

1845
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,640
Speaker 5: Notice notice neither of them answered my specific question. He

1846
01:36:35,680 --> 01:36:40,199
says that Jazz rattle off some manuscripts, Tobak tesch Can

1847
01:36:40,279 --> 01:36:42,279
whatever it is. That wasn't my question. Let me try

1848
01:36:42,279 --> 01:36:45,760
it again. But you can't answer guys. Remember, they failed miserably.

1849
01:36:46,159 --> 01:36:50,960
I said, point to the earliest Mussaf codex that has

1850
01:36:51,119 --> 01:36:55,159
all one hundred fourteen surahs of the Koran with all

1851
01:36:55,199 --> 01:36:58,560
the verses that they accept today, and they're in nineteen

1852
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:01,600
twenty four Cairo edition. They couldn't do that. Then I asked,

1853
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:07,000
show me any two chronic manuscripts that are identical one

1854
01:37:07,079 --> 01:37:09,920
hundred percent. You didn't answer the question, Daniel, neither did

1855
01:37:10,000 --> 01:37:13,000
your friend. And again, if Western scholars are right. Your

1856
01:37:13,079 --> 01:37:16,279
prophet is a fraud and you're wrong. There are many

1857
01:37:16,359 --> 01:37:18,960
Western scholars. You may not like them because they're conservative.

1858
01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:22,199
They do believe that Moses wrote the Torah, and they

1859
01:37:22,279 --> 01:37:25,000
believe there's enough evidence for it, not only because Jesus

1860
01:37:25,079 --> 01:37:27,800
confirmed it, but if Western scholars are right, I don't

1861
01:37:27,840 --> 01:37:29,760
know what you guys don't get. You just proved Muhammed

1862
01:37:29,840 --> 01:37:32,720
is a false prophet antichrist because he doesn't agree with

1863
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:34,840
Western scholars. He agrees with me, and here I am

1864
01:37:34,880 --> 01:37:37,239
defending your false prophet glory to Jesus.

1865
01:37:37,840 --> 01:37:40,039
Speaker 1: Okay, did you have something else that you wanted to

1866
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:41,399
and then we'll finish off with that. I just want

1867
01:37:41,399 --> 01:37:43,880
to make sure everybody got their question off that they

1868
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:44,600
wanted to get off.

1869
01:37:46,319 --> 01:37:50,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, he gave us a question about the prophet upon

1870
01:37:50,359 --> 01:37:55,079
him confirming the Torah, and we didn't address that question.

1871
01:37:55,239 --> 01:37:56,880
So I can address it right now during the.

1872
01:37:57,279 --> 01:37:59,119
Speaker 5: Four minutes you never addressed. You want ads it out,

1873
01:37:59,159 --> 01:38:00,239
then I need a response.

1874
01:38:03,000 --> 01:38:04,920
Speaker 1: On the Q and a session. Okay, so let me

1875
01:38:05,079 --> 01:38:08,359
let me respond to one and then we'll go to

1876
01:38:08,479 --> 01:38:10,640
Bible versus crowd for the last topic.

1877
01:38:11,439 --> 01:38:15,079
Speaker 2: Okay, that's fine. First of all, the Quran says that

1878
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:19,920
the Torah and the Engeal, the scripture of the past

1879
01:38:20,000 --> 01:38:23,159
has been distorted. They change it with their hands. This

1880
01:38:23,359 --> 01:38:26,479
is something that we read in the Quran. So that's

1881
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:31,960
point number one. Point number two is that he doesn't

1882
01:38:32,039 --> 01:38:36,479
understand the difference between i'm versus hass In Arabic means

1883
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:41,399
general general statement versus hass a specific statement. So if

1884
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:43,680
I point to a book and I say this is

1885
01:38:43,760 --> 01:38:48,319
a reliable book or this book confirms what I'm saying,

1886
01:38:48,800 --> 01:38:51,800
I don't necessarily mean that there every single line of

1887
01:38:51,880 --> 01:38:54,399
that book I agree with, or every single line of

1888
01:38:54,479 --> 01:38:57,439
that book is true. I'm making that making an i'm

1889
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:01,279
statement a general statement that the book is true. Sam

1890
01:39:01,399 --> 01:39:05,359
can only have an uncharitable reading or an uncharitable interpretation

1891
01:39:05,640 --> 01:39:08,520
of the prophet's words in that hadith. If we assume

1892
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:11,279
that that hadith is authentic. So there is a difference

1893
01:39:11,319 --> 01:39:13,640
of opinion on the authenticity of that hadith and he

1894
01:39:13,760 --> 01:39:16,479
knows it second of all, or the third point, actually,

1895
01:39:16,920 --> 01:39:20,000
what Torah is the prophet or telrat is the prophet

1896
01:39:20,079 --> 01:39:22,920
sola la jaya Sam referring to is he referring to

1897
01:39:23,119 --> 01:39:26,199
the Mazaretic text is he referring to the Dead Sea scrolls?

1898
01:39:26,399 --> 01:39:29,520
Is he referring to the Subtuagen? Like which version of

1899
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:32,000
the Old Testament is he referring to? And why do

1900
01:39:32,079 --> 01:39:35,159
you incorrectly assume that the Old Testament that you have,

1901
01:39:35,399 --> 01:39:38,720
your particular sect or denomination has is the same thing

1902
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:41,159
that the profit piece be upon Him is referring to.

1903
01:39:41,359 --> 01:39:43,600
Like this is a very flawed logic that you have

1904
01:39:44,119 --> 01:39:46,359
sam to take this Hadith and think that the profit

1905
01:39:46,399 --> 01:39:49,479
piece be upon him is confirming the book that you

1906
01:39:49,640 --> 01:39:51,800
have in your hand today. By the way, there are

1907
01:39:51,880 --> 01:39:54,880
all these different variations. And the fourth point is that

1908
01:39:55,000 --> 01:39:59,720
if Muslims believed that the Bible was uncorrupted because of this,

1909
01:40:00,640 --> 01:40:02,880
why didn't they canonize the Bible? And the way that

1910
01:40:02,960 --> 01:40:07,439
the Christians canonized the Old Testament. Christians canonize the Old Testament.

1911
01:40:07,640 --> 01:40:10,319
Muslims never did that because they never saw the Bible

1912
01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:13,399
as fully reliable. They never saw the Old Testament as

1913
01:40:13,439 --> 01:40:17,039
fully reliable. And the actual academic evidence shows that the

1914
01:40:17,079 --> 01:40:19,840
Bible is not reliable because there's all these different variations

1915
01:40:19,880 --> 01:40:21,960
and they change, like the differences between the Dead Sea

1916
01:40:22,000 --> 01:40:24,880
Scroll and the Mastertitexts and the super Septuogen These are

1917
01:40:25,039 --> 01:40:29,159
major theological differences because of changes and wording in the

1918
01:40:29,319 --> 01:40:31,760
original manuscripts. Why don't you deal with that?

1919
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:33,079
Speaker 1: Now?

1920
01:40:33,079 --> 01:40:34,760
Speaker 5: I have the same time to respond to his wives

1921
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:35,159
and bluster.

1922
01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 1: Okay, and then I'll have your.

1923
01:40:39,399 --> 01:40:41,119
Speaker 5: Go to let me Let me go, because I want

1924
01:40:41,159 --> 01:40:45,600
to destory that, all right. Number one, Chapter two versus

1925
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:47,720
seventy seventy nine shows again what you've been doing with

1926
01:40:47,760 --> 01:40:49,560
the Bible. You're doing to your own korng and you

1927
01:40:49,640 --> 01:40:52,079
fall under the condemnation of three seventy eight. You not

1928
01:40:52,239 --> 01:40:56,119
only have the audacity twist the scriptures, you have theudacity

1929
01:40:56,159 --> 01:40:59,760
twist the kron anyone I'm challenging here, Let's do it

1930
01:41:00,319 --> 01:41:03,279
on two seventy five cent and your proof text, Mano Imano,

1931
01:41:03,359 --> 01:41:06,920
Let's debate it. Go read the context. I've done an

1932
01:41:06,960 --> 01:41:10,920
extensive study and the Muslim commentators. It's talking about a

1933
01:41:11,079 --> 01:41:13,960
particular group identified as Jews, who wrote the book with

1934
01:41:14,039 --> 01:41:18,199
their own hands. It doesn't say all Jews everywhere, let

1935
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:21,920
alone mentioned the Christians. You just butchered the Qoran like

1936
01:41:22,000 --> 01:41:23,920
you've been butchering the Bible. But I come back to

1937
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:27,119
butcher you. That's number one. Number two. You said that

1938
01:41:27,279 --> 01:41:30,119
the hadith where Mohammed confirmed the Torah that there are

1939
01:41:30,199 --> 01:41:33,079
differences of opinion. Well, you probably didn't hear my recent

1940
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:38,039
responses to your friend Jake ibin KM L Josiah, which

1941
01:41:38,119 --> 01:41:39,880
I have quoted. And if you want to read Arabic

1942
01:41:39,920 --> 01:41:42,119
because you think your votes about reading Arabic, I'll let

1943
01:41:42,159 --> 01:41:46,000
you read Arabic and parse it. Ib and L Josiah said,

1944
01:41:46,199 --> 01:41:50,640
a group of scholars believe the Torah is uncorrupt. One

1945
01:41:50,680 --> 01:41:53,640
of the evidences they gave is the headith of Abu

1946
01:41:53,760 --> 01:41:57,319
Dao Wud. They quoted it, they didn't question its authenticity,

1947
01:41:57,439 --> 01:42:00,760
and even El Albani said it's Hassan. But put Albani

1948
01:42:00,800 --> 01:42:03,159
asai I K. L. Josiah for those of you who

1949
01:42:03,159 --> 01:42:06,680
don't know. He's the disciple of Schekhalistam ibn Tamia, his

1950
01:42:06,840 --> 01:42:10,479
granddaddy when it comes to celifie anthropomorphism, and he says

1951
01:42:10,600 --> 01:42:13,359
these scholars quoted this said, I guess they didn't know

1952
01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:16,560
about the science of Adeid classification. Thank God, I'll have

1953
01:42:16,640 --> 01:42:19,239
sent you to correct them, because they said that when

1954
01:42:19,319 --> 01:42:22,600
Muhammad saw virek Tora, he put it on the cushion.

1955
01:42:22,640 --> 01:42:24,680
He goes. I believe in you and him who revealed you.

1956
01:42:25,119 --> 01:42:27,159
And then the scholars say he would not have said

1957
01:42:27,199 --> 01:42:30,159
it if he thought that Toro was corrupted. And among

1958
01:42:30,319 --> 01:42:33,720
the people that I El Josiah lists as saying that

1959
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:38,960
tour and the Gospel are incruptible are El Buchhari and Razi,

1960
01:42:39,039 --> 01:42:42,119
which you probably don't care much about. Razzi, but Imam

1961
01:42:42,239 --> 01:42:45,880
El Bukhari, the one who collected third almost said some technicians.

1962
01:42:45,880 --> 01:42:48,159
According to you, dadis no, my time's on.

1963
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:50,600
Speaker 1: No, No, you got twenty vis on guess okay.

1964
01:42:50,720 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 5: The final thing is if variant readings in validate the Bible,

1965
01:42:54,000 --> 01:42:56,600
it buries your Quran because you have thousands of variant readings.

1966
01:42:56,640 --> 01:42:59,760
But then you explained kat but who authorized the karate?

1967
01:43:00,159 --> 01:43:02,600
Show me one verse from your law that said that

1968
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:05,640
Mujahad would come and stand verse seven readings of the Koran.

1969
01:43:05,960 --> 01:43:07,960
You make it up as you go along. The gig

1970
01:43:08,119 --> 01:43:09,520
is up, game over for your religion.

1971
01:43:09,800 --> 01:43:12,399
Speaker 4: How could I answer, my son? Could I could I

1972
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:18,319
answer this? We don't have to make up anything because

1973
01:43:18,399 --> 01:43:21,039
we actually have the genealogical trees of the manuscripts of

1974
01:43:21,119 --> 01:43:24,840
the Quran, the stammer of the Koran, and there's so exhaustive.

1975
01:43:25,079 --> 01:43:28,199
There is not a single textual critic of the Koran

1976
01:43:28,520 --> 01:43:31,479
that would say that we can't identify the Koran. There

1977
01:43:31,600 --> 01:43:34,880
was at the time of Muhammed that they would say

1978
01:43:34,920 --> 01:43:36,760
that we don't know what it is. This is in

1979
01:43:37,359 --> 01:43:40,319
contradiction to what you said just now that they don't

1980
01:43:40,439 --> 01:43:42,319
know what it is. And secondly, when it comes to

1981
01:43:42,399 --> 01:43:45,359
the tour with the perfect piece perpon him, never authenticated

1982
01:43:45,720 --> 01:43:49,159
your torah. You never authenticated the tour that you believe

1983
01:43:49,199 --> 01:43:52,119
in today, there's no one, there's multiple The perfect piece

1984
01:43:52,159 --> 01:43:55,520
of him authenticated a judgment from that tour, which is

1985
01:43:55,560 --> 01:43:58,720
a word Jim, so read the hedits in context. And lastly,

1986
01:43:58,960 --> 01:44:02,760
there is no disagreement upon this with about the scholars

1987
01:44:03,159 --> 01:44:06,239
on the tradition of the Koran, what it includes one

1988
01:44:06,319 --> 01:44:09,920
hundred and fourteen sewers, no distinction, nothing. This is a

1989
01:44:10,079 --> 01:44:13,239
difference to you and your scholars who leave books, who

1990
01:44:13,359 --> 01:44:17,399
leave chapters, who leave the wizard Jesus out and change them.

1991
01:44:17,760 --> 01:44:19,560
They're not the same. So why do you try to

1992
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:23,159
focus on a false Islamic dilemma of virtual false dilemma?

1993
01:44:23,399 --> 01:44:26,159
You don't answer the question of how the Bible could

1994
01:44:26,159 --> 01:44:29,199
be authentic, unreliable. And I'm shocked that as a Christian

1995
01:44:29,439 --> 01:44:32,119
you allowed Ja to say that it's fine, it's okay

1996
01:44:32,399 --> 01:44:35,399
if Correctinaticus's me thrown into the trash. I mean, as

1997
01:44:35,439 --> 01:44:37,359
I musdam, I have no respect for the Bible than

1998
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:40,439
Jay and some to put together. But it's ridiculous that

1999
01:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,720
he allowed that statement to go unchallenged. Jay, why would

2000
01:44:43,760 --> 01:44:45,840
you do that through the Bible, not under the bus,

2001
01:44:46,079 --> 01:44:47,680
but in the trash. I'm shocked at that.

2002
01:44:48,039 --> 01:44:50,439
Speaker 3: Well, you're just too silly to think that the Bible

2003
01:44:50,520 --> 01:44:53,279
is reducible to one textual tradition. That's your whole argument.

2004
01:44:53,800 --> 01:44:56,800
I didn't I didn't say that what you just said,

2005
01:44:57,079 --> 01:44:59,479
I asked one claims. So by the way, I don't

2006
01:44:59,479 --> 01:45:00,880
want to I want I've got other things i want

2007
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:02,760
to talk about. So we've got multiple scholars. By the

2008
01:45:02,800 --> 01:45:06,560
way that both of you said to him, I'm replying

2009
01:45:06,600 --> 01:45:09,720
to him. You said that there are no modern scholars

2010
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:12,479
that believe in the veracity of the text the whole

2011
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,159
New Testament. I've got three here for you, lightheart, F

2012
01:45:15,279 --> 01:45:16,920
F Young.

2013
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:20,439
Speaker 4: What's the texting well known? What's the text?

2014
01:45:20,960 --> 01:45:22,119
Speaker 2: Which text? Which text?

2015
01:45:22,680 --> 01:45:27,279
Speaker 3: There cons variants, which variant of them, which variant of

2016
01:45:28,279 --> 01:45:28,640
we don't.

2017
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:29,399
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter.

2018
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:31,479
Speaker 3: You don't even know argument. You don't even know the

2019
01:45:31,920 --> 01:45:36,680
your argument, don't open the book and the book argument

2020
01:45:36,760 --> 01:45:41,159
is tradition, and that's not our position, your.

2021
01:45:42,840 --> 01:45:47,680
Speaker 5: From We're going to move down.

2022
01:45:50,520 --> 01:45:51,119
Speaker 3: In our position.

2023
01:45:51,800 --> 01:45:59,000
Speaker 4: Textual edition, guys, texturexedition. You can't because they're doing.

2024
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:01,079
Speaker 1: Because they don't follows going to top three.

2025
01:46:01,159 --> 01:46:02,239
Speaker 3: You understand I could tell.

2026
01:46:02,079 --> 01:46:05,279
Speaker 1: You, guys, Guys, guys, guys, guys.

2027
01:46:08,960 --> 01:46:11,399
Speaker 3: Orthodox. Let me give an example, the Orthodox study Bible.

2028
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:15,239
Speaker 1: Guys, guys, guys. All right, I'm meeting everybody, Okay. I

2029
01:46:15,359 --> 01:46:16,920
knew that this was going to go crazy. Anytime we

2030
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:18,520
open up the dialogue, it's going to go crazy. I

2031
01:46:18,560 --> 01:46:19,920
understand you guys are not going to agree on this

2032
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:24,359
with with the text in the scripture. But yeah, yeah,

2033
01:46:24,399 --> 01:46:27,479
but here's the thing. He's getting frustrated because he's he

2034
01:46:27,720 --> 01:46:30,079
answered your question and you know, you made some personal

2035
01:46:30,079 --> 01:46:31,760
attacks about throwing things in the trash or whatever. So

2036
01:46:31,760 --> 01:46:32,439
obviously he's going to.

2037
01:46:32,439 --> 01:46:41,000
Speaker 3: Respond position, what's Sam's view of cup.

2038
01:46:40,960 --> 01:46:44,239
Speaker 1: Let's just move on to the third topic, guys. All right,

2039
01:46:44,359 --> 01:46:46,319
So the third topic here, guys, is going to be

2040
01:46:48,079 --> 01:46:50,920
morality bibble versus Kuran on human rights which you guys

2041
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:52,680
can go ahead and talk about this a bit, because

2042
01:46:52,680 --> 01:46:56,439
I see that there's some personal differences. Who wants to

2043
01:46:56,439 --> 01:46:58,199
take this one first team Christianity or a team?

2044
01:46:58,319 --> 01:47:01,520
Speaker 2: Is they can go first?

2045
01:47:02,479 --> 01:47:04,920
Speaker 1: TEAMSM wants to go to the first on this one. Okay, no, no, no,

2046
01:47:05,039 --> 01:47:07,560
they can go oh cheep Christianity. You guys, Okay, we'll

2047
01:47:07,560 --> 01:47:09,159
go first. Jay.

2048
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:15,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that if we think about this idea,

2049
01:47:15,600 --> 01:47:18,039
the transition from the previous topic to the next topic.

2050
01:47:18,399 --> 01:47:21,560
Speaker 1: I quick, sorry, sorry, real quick, Jay, We're going to

2051
01:47:21,600 --> 01:47:23,000
put four minutes on o'clock so that you can go,

2052
01:47:23,079 --> 01:47:26,359
so that we don't uh and five minutes.

2053
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:28,399
Speaker 2: He gets five minutes, right, not four.

2054
01:47:29,119 --> 01:47:31,520
Speaker 1: No, it's it's four because now we're on the new topic. Three.

2055
01:47:31,880 --> 01:47:32,479
It's per round.

2056
01:47:32,560 --> 01:47:35,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. So the opening statement, Yeah, the openings are five,

2057
01:47:35,199 --> 01:47:35,560
aren't they.

2058
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:37,560
Speaker 1: No, it's opening statement from the very beginning, and then

2059
01:47:37,600 --> 01:47:39,600
once we get into the debate rounds is four. If

2060
01:47:39,600 --> 01:47:41,000
you guys want, if this is the topic that you

2061
01:47:41,039 --> 01:47:42,520
guys want to expand on more, we can go ahead

2062
01:47:42,560 --> 01:47:43,840
and give you guys five minutes, but we do it

2063
01:47:43,920 --> 01:47:46,079
four minutes for all the rounds. But if you guys

2064
01:47:46,119 --> 01:47:47,680
want five minutes for this particular topic.

2065
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:51,600
Speaker 2: That's fine, that's fine, whatever, just five minutes. We need

2066
01:47:51,680 --> 01:47:53,119
five minutes for our opening.

2067
01:47:53,199 --> 01:47:55,079
Speaker 1: That's fine. Well, you know what for this whole route,

2068
01:47:55,119 --> 01:47:56,560
for this this is the last one to go five

2069
01:47:56,600 --> 01:48:01,720
minutes for each round three times, no problem. So Jag

2070
01:48:01,760 --> 01:48:04,399
got five minison o'clock for you. Whenever you're ready, will

2071
01:48:04,399 --> 01:48:04,800
turn the calo.

2072
01:48:04,960 --> 01:48:06,199
Speaker 3: I'll go one or two, and then I'll pass it

2073
01:48:06,239 --> 01:48:08,600
over to Sam because I don't know what his arguments

2074
01:48:08,600 --> 01:48:10,439
are going to be, but I would say that, you know,

2075
01:48:10,520 --> 01:48:14,159
if we think about this previous topic, it relates to

2076
01:48:14,279 --> 01:48:16,600
the new topic, which is that there needs to be

2077
01:48:16,680 --> 01:48:20,399
a consistency of continuity between what was expected and what

2078
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:23,640
was later revealed or given. Now, in the Old Testament

2079
01:48:23,720 --> 01:48:26,800
we have a pretty consistent pattern, not of wrath or

2080
01:48:26,880 --> 01:48:30,359
of anything extreme, but rather Jesus confirms in many places

2081
01:48:30,479 --> 01:48:33,960
the morality of the Old Testament. For example, in Matthew five,

2082
01:48:34,039 --> 01:48:37,479
people think that the beatitudes are contrary to the law.

2083
01:48:37,520 --> 01:48:39,720
In fact, Leviticus says that you have to love your neighbor.

2084
01:48:40,119 --> 01:48:43,000
Jesus says that you can't exact personal revenge, and that

2085
01:48:43,159 --> 01:48:45,560
was actually part of the Old Testament law. So for us,

2086
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:49,439
Christ's exposition of the Old Testament is a consistent, true

2087
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:53,600
exposition of what the Torah always meant. Jesus isn't contradicting it.

2088
01:48:53,680 --> 01:48:55,880
In fact, he gave it. He's the one that fulfills it.

2089
01:48:56,600 --> 01:48:58,600
When we get to the time of this law, we

2090
01:48:58,720 --> 01:49:02,039
have a totally different expectation. For example, many of these

2091
01:49:02,159 --> 01:49:06,680
ceremonial ideas that are borrowed from Judaism and Christianity actually

2092
01:49:06,760 --> 01:49:09,920
have no meaning and no significance. They're not clear as

2093
01:49:10,000 --> 01:49:12,199
to why we do them. It's just what Allah wills. Well,

2094
01:49:12,239 --> 01:49:16,159
in Christianity, there's a specific meaning for things like an alter,

2095
01:49:16,520 --> 01:49:19,720
things like cleansing, baptisms that are washings. And when I

2096
01:49:19,800 --> 01:49:22,520
debated Daniel, we talked about this issue of continuity, how

2097
01:49:22,600 --> 01:49:26,840
God always had an alter, a temple, a priesthood. Islam

2098
01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:28,960
has none of that. So there's no continuity there in

2099
01:49:29,079 --> 01:49:32,399
terms of morality or in terms of the theology. Islam

2100
01:49:32,520 --> 01:49:36,159
has a totally different set of standards that are completely arbitrary.

2101
01:49:36,199 --> 01:49:38,239
Sam will pass it over to you, all.

2102
01:49:38,199 --> 01:49:41,279
Speaker 5: Right, yes, now, remember why I had asked to do

2103
01:49:41,560 --> 01:49:44,880
the previous debate before this one, Guys, Remember they failed

2104
01:49:44,920 --> 01:49:47,880
miserably to show that their profit did not confirm the scriptures.

2105
01:49:48,000 --> 01:49:50,279
Any attack on the scriptures. Again, prus e. Muhammad is

2106
01:49:50,319 --> 01:49:53,000
a false prophet Antichrist. He is, but for other reasons.

2107
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:56,960
And Mohammad confirmed all the scriptures in circulation. He didn't

2108
01:49:57,000 --> 01:50:01,279
make any difference between the variation or diversions to him.

2109
01:50:01,439 --> 01:50:04,520
They're all God's work. Now, with that said, that means

2110
01:50:04,600 --> 01:50:09,119
Mohammad's morality must live up to the biblical morality. Otherwise

2111
01:50:09,680 --> 01:50:12,520
he is a false prophet. And so when we look

2112
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:15,479
at even the Torah, even though Jesus is the consummation,

2113
01:50:15,560 --> 01:50:18,399
and we are told clearly in the Old Testament and

2114
01:50:18,680 --> 01:50:21,920
in the teachings of Christ, that God in his love

2115
01:50:22,319 --> 01:50:25,279
condescended to the Israelites and allow things.

2116
01:50:25,159 --> 01:50:25,800
Speaker 4: He did not like.

2117
01:50:25,920 --> 01:50:28,000
Speaker 5: For example, if you go to First Samuel, chapter eight,

2118
01:50:28,359 --> 01:50:30,920
if you go to First Chronicles, chapter twenty two, verse eight,

2119
01:50:31,199 --> 01:50:33,840
First Chronicles twenty eight, verse three, and on and Onigos,

2120
01:50:33,880 --> 01:50:36,720
and then the words of our Lord Matthew nineteen, the

2121
01:50:36,840 --> 01:50:40,720
Lord allowed and tolerate things that he himself was not

2122
01:50:40,880 --> 01:50:44,399
pleased with until Jesus came and perfected the revelation and

2123
01:50:44,439 --> 01:50:47,399
took us to our standard. Muhammad devolves and his ethics

2124
01:50:47,439 --> 01:50:49,560
are even worse than that found in the Old Testament,

2125
01:50:49,600 --> 01:50:52,279
and I can give you several examples. In twenty Deuteronomy

2126
01:50:52,279 --> 01:50:54,760
twenty four, verse one of four, the true God of

2127
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:57,399
Moses says that if I divorce a woman she marries

2128
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:01,239
and either or he dies, I can't take her back.

2129
01:51:01,279 --> 01:51:04,640
It's an abomination. What God says is an abomination. Mohammed

2130
01:51:04,680 --> 01:51:07,359
Zelah says is moheeded the only way you can take

2131
01:51:07,399 --> 01:51:10,359
your spouse back. In chapter two, verses two twenty nine

2132
01:51:10,399 --> 01:51:14,399
to two thirty of the Koran, if Daniel makes the

2133
01:51:14,439 --> 01:51:18,079
mistake of irrevocably divorcing his wife, she has to marry

2134
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:20,279
someone else. He has to have sex with her, and

2135
01:51:20,359 --> 01:51:22,239
then if he divorces her he can take her back,

2136
01:51:22,680 --> 01:51:25,720
adding insult injury. So the God of Moses says, Muhammed's

2137
01:51:25,720 --> 01:51:29,439
God stands condemned. Another aspect Douranmi twenty one ten to fourteen,

2138
01:51:29,560 --> 01:51:31,279
unlike what we find in the chron and the Sunna,

2139
01:51:31,760 --> 01:51:35,000
where Daniel's God says, if you're out in jihad, you

2140
01:51:35,119 --> 01:51:38,079
can take women captive, even married one. You can then

2141
01:51:38,520 --> 01:51:41,960
molest them, even though they won't call it rape, because

2142
01:51:42,479 --> 01:51:45,840
by taking them captive you've numbliflied their marriage, have sex

2143
01:51:45,920 --> 01:51:47,960
with them, and sell them off to your property. Whereas

2144
01:51:48,000 --> 01:51:49,880
the God of Moses says in Douranami twenty one ten

2145
01:51:49,920 --> 01:51:52,560
to fourteen, if you find a captive woman, you make

2146
01:51:52,600 --> 01:51:54,800
her your wife. She's not married, You give her a

2147
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:56,880
month to mourn, shave her head, and you give her

2148
01:51:56,920 --> 01:51:59,039
the full status of a wife and his light wife.

2149
01:51:59,159 --> 01:52:02,039
And if you divorce her, she's free. You don't sell her.

2150
01:52:02,479 --> 01:52:05,399
So even though the Old Testament it's the ideal standard,

2151
01:52:05,560 --> 01:52:08,000
even the Old Testament condemns the kron and the Sunnah

2152
01:52:08,319 --> 01:52:11,960
as being barbaric and Droeconian, beneath even the standard the

2153
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,000
Old Testament, which does not live up to the standard

2154
01:52:14,039 --> 01:52:16,359
of Jesus Christ. And any attack in the Bible, they

2155
01:52:16,399 --> 01:52:18,239
again prove Muhammad as a fraud. And I hope you

2156
01:52:18,279 --> 01:52:20,920
attack the Bible because Muhammad is a fraud, but for

2157
01:52:21,000 --> 01:52:21,439
other reasons.

2158
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:23,880
Speaker 1: Gloryd to Christ forty five seconds.

2159
01:52:23,920 --> 01:52:26,720
Speaker 5: So all right, well, yeah, so keep that in mind.

2160
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:30,159
As Jay said, the Old Testament is fulfilled in Christ.

2161
01:52:30,680 --> 01:52:34,319
Jesus perfects the Old Testament. Mohammed perverts the Old Testament,

2162
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:37,039
let alone the New Testament, so that he doesn't even

2163
01:52:37,079 --> 01:52:38,600
live up to the standard the Old Testament, which is

2164
01:52:38,640 --> 01:52:40,359
an ideal Jesus is a standard.

2165
01:52:40,479 --> 01:52:40,680
Speaker 1: Third.

2166
01:52:40,680 --> 01:52:43,000
Speaker 5: And when you can Muhammad to Jesus, he's many the

2167
01:52:43,039 --> 01:52:43,560
fear of Christ.

2168
01:52:43,760 --> 01:52:47,039
Speaker 1: But you still got twenty five? Still good? Okay?

2169
01:52:47,439 --> 01:52:51,000
Speaker 5: All right, So any attack am mourning you guys, keep

2170
01:52:51,039 --> 01:52:53,960
attacking the Old Testament make my day. Because your prophet

2171
01:52:54,039 --> 01:52:57,079
confirmed that Old Testament in his possession. Make my day.

2172
01:52:57,159 --> 01:52:59,239
And to answer the question, why didn't canonize it? Because

2173
01:52:59,239 --> 01:53:02,239
your Koran said the Tours for the Jews, the Gospels

2174
01:53:02,279 --> 01:53:04,800
for the Christians. The Koran is for you, but all

2175
01:53:04,880 --> 01:53:07,439
of you follow it because then it is guidance, a light,

2176
01:53:07,880 --> 01:53:09,960
very simple. Your chron refute you, Daniel, do a better

2177
01:53:10,000 --> 01:53:10,960
job studying your time.

2178
01:53:11,840 --> 01:53:14,880
Speaker 1: All right, five minutes on o'clock. The topic again is

2179
01:53:15,039 --> 01:53:18,760
morality Quran versus the Bible on human rights. This is

2180
01:53:18,880 --> 01:53:22,000
round one of topic three. This is going to be

2181
01:53:22,159 --> 01:53:24,840
a team opening statement. We haven't done the opening yeah

2182
01:53:24,880 --> 01:53:26,840
of course, yeah, yeah, So five five minutes on o'clock.

2183
01:53:26,880 --> 01:53:31,479
Doory h sure, sir, yeah, yeah, five minutes for everybody

2184
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:34,439
on each round of this is this is last one, okay.

2185
01:53:35,119 --> 01:53:38,680
Speaker 2: Christian Christians often attack the morality of Islam. They say

2186
01:53:38,760 --> 01:53:42,520
Mohammed upon him taught war and taught misogyny, but Jesus

2187
01:53:42,880 --> 01:53:45,720
teaches love and peace. They say, Mohammed so I said

2188
01:53:45,760 --> 01:53:49,520
them promoted child marriage, whereas Jesus believes women should only

2189
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:53,199
be married when they reach eighteen. But this Christian perspective

2190
01:53:53,279 --> 01:53:57,800
is contradicted by the Bible. The Bible promotes far more war, killing,

2191
01:53:57,960 --> 01:54:00,840
and misogyny than anything in the or honor the life

2192
01:54:00,880 --> 01:54:03,800
of the prophet Muhammad. Pist people. Let's go through a list.

2193
01:54:04,000 --> 01:54:06,960
The Bible says in Levidigus chapter twenty to execute a

2194
01:54:07,039 --> 01:54:10,840
woman who engages in adultery. Many Christians will say, oh,

2195
01:54:11,319 --> 01:54:15,159
this is the old Covenant, it's no longer applicable. Fine.

2196
01:54:15,359 --> 01:54:17,720
That may be true, but it doesn't change the fact

2197
01:54:17,760 --> 01:54:22,520
that God commanded executing adulterers at one point in history,

2198
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:26,680
and God, according to the Trinity, is also Jesus. So

2199
01:54:26,960 --> 01:54:31,279
Jesus commanded the Israelites to kill adulterers. Does that sound

2200
01:54:31,399 --> 01:54:36,039
very peaceful? Later in Leviticus, Jesus says homosexuals should be executed.

2201
01:54:36,319 --> 01:54:38,640
If a father sleeps with his daughter in law, they

2202
01:54:38,680 --> 01:54:42,600
should both be executed. Here's a brief list of sins

2203
01:54:42,960 --> 01:54:46,680
that Jesus requires you to be executed for, according to

2204
01:54:46,760 --> 01:54:51,319
the Old Testament, engaging in idolatry, breaking the sabbath. So

2205
01:54:51,439 --> 01:54:54,600
an Israelite three If an Israelite three thousand years ago

2206
01:54:54,720 --> 01:54:58,159
accidentally did some work on Saturday to break the sabbath,

2207
01:54:58,479 --> 01:55:02,279
Jesus wanted that israel Light to be executed. A son

2208
01:55:02,399 --> 01:55:05,760
striking his parents deserve death, or even if he curses

2209
01:55:05,800 --> 01:55:09,399
his parents, Jesus say, kill him. A sorceress, Jesus say,

2210
01:55:09,520 --> 01:55:13,920
kill him. A blasphemer, Jesus says, kill him. A brother, son, daughter, wife,

2211
01:55:14,039 --> 01:55:16,800
or friend who entices you to worship other gods. That

2212
01:55:16,840 --> 01:55:20,800
says in Deuteronomy thirteen, Jesus says, stone them to death

2213
01:55:20,880 --> 01:55:23,760
and have no pity on them. So Jesus is pro

2214
01:55:24,079 --> 01:55:26,640
death penalty for a lot of things. To be fair,

2215
01:55:26,840 --> 01:55:31,159
Islam also has the death penalty for adultery, sorcery, and blasphemy.

2216
01:55:31,439 --> 01:55:34,640
But if we're judging who is more pro death penalty

2217
01:55:35,000 --> 01:55:39,640
Jesus or Muhammad, Jesus wins hands down. According to the Bible,

2218
01:55:40,079 --> 01:55:43,720
Jesus is also pro genocide. In Deuteronomy twenty, Jesus commands

2219
01:55:43,760 --> 01:55:46,800
Moses to attack the Canaanites and other peoples and quote

2220
01:55:46,920 --> 01:55:51,039
leave nothing alive that breathes. In Deuteronomy chapter two, Moses

2221
01:55:51,119 --> 01:55:54,880
requested safe passage for the wandering Hebrew people from Sihon,

2222
01:55:55,000 --> 01:55:58,560
king of Heshman, but the king refused. Jesus then commands

2223
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:02,600
his followers to conquer and possess Sihan's lands. As Moses says,

2224
01:56:02,720 --> 01:56:06,439
quote the Lord our God, meaning Jesus, delivered him before us,

2225
01:56:06,520 --> 01:56:08,960
and we smote him and his sons and all his people.

2226
01:56:09,000 --> 01:56:11,000
And we took all his cities at that time, and

2227
01:56:11,199 --> 01:56:13,760
utterly destroyed the men and the women and the little

2228
01:56:13,800 --> 01:56:17,439
ones of every city. We left none to remain. Now,

2229
01:56:17,520 --> 01:56:19,920
to be fair, Muhammed peace be upon him also commands

2230
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:23,000
war in some contexts, but the difference is Muhammed peace

2231
01:56:23,039 --> 01:56:26,560
behind him doesn't command Muslims to kill women, children, and babies.

2232
01:56:26,960 --> 01:56:29,439
He says the opposite. He says, to spare women and children.

2233
01:56:29,479 --> 01:56:32,560
But Jesus, according to the Bible, is not so merciful.

2234
01:56:32,920 --> 01:56:35,119
Then we go to slavery. The Old and New Testament

2235
01:56:35,199 --> 01:56:39,399
both endoored slavery, including taking girls as slaves for potential brides.

2236
01:56:40,079 --> 01:56:43,560
Numbers thirty one says. In Chapter thirty one says, Moses

2237
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:45,600
said to them, have you let all the women live.

2238
01:56:46,039 --> 01:56:49,000
Now kill every male among the little ones, and kill

2239
01:56:49,039 --> 01:56:51,520
every woman who has known man by lying with him.

2240
01:56:51,800 --> 01:56:54,119
But all the young girls who have not known man

2241
01:56:54,239 --> 01:56:57,880
by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. End quote Again.

2242
01:56:58,199 --> 01:57:02,359
Islam also endorses his slaves and concubinage, but the difference

2243
01:57:02,479 --> 01:57:04,840
is that in the Bible, Jesus says you can sell

2244
01:57:05,039 --> 01:57:09,199
your own daughter into slavery. Exodus, chapter twenty one, verse seven,

2245
01:57:09,319 --> 01:57:12,199
Jesus says when a man sells his daughter as a slave,

2246
01:57:12,359 --> 01:57:14,760
she will not be freed at the end of six years,

2247
01:57:14,880 --> 01:57:19,439
as the men are. Unlike Jesus, Islam doesn't allow parents

2248
01:57:19,479 --> 01:57:22,920
to sell their little girls into slavery. Finally, on the

2249
01:57:22,960 --> 01:57:25,880
topic of age of marriage, nowhere in the Bible does

2250
01:57:26,000 --> 01:57:29,720
Jesus specify a minimum age for marriage. Jesus had no

2251
01:57:29,960 --> 01:57:32,760
problem with child marriage, and if he did, he never

2252
01:57:32,840 --> 01:57:35,479
told anyone, even though as a common practice in his

2253
01:57:35,600 --> 01:57:39,720
time in the Old Testament times. Furthermore, many church authorities

2254
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:43,760
endorse child marriage. For example, Saint Augustine himself was set

2255
01:57:43,840 --> 01:57:46,159
to marry a ten year old when he was thirty

2256
01:57:46,199 --> 01:57:49,439
one before he became a priest. Thomas Aquinas says that

2257
01:57:49,640 --> 01:57:53,000
sex depends on maturity, which he says happens at twelve

2258
01:57:53,079 --> 01:57:55,319
years old for girls, and he says it can even

2259
01:57:55,359 --> 01:57:59,600
happen earlier for some girls. The Catholic Encyclopedia also notes

2260
01:57:59,640 --> 01:58:02,960
that Man was betrothed to Joseph when she was just

2261
01:58:03,119 --> 01:58:05,479
a twelve year old little girl, and in the Canon

2262
01:58:05,560 --> 01:58:09,119
law and Catholicism this minimum age of marriage verse twelve.

2263
01:58:09,359 --> 01:58:11,680
I want the Christian audience to know that the Bible

2264
01:58:11,760 --> 01:58:15,239
and the Catholic Church have fully endorsed Marian girls as

2265
01:58:15,279 --> 01:58:17,560
young as twelve or even younger. So if you want

2266
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:20,039
to attack Islam and the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon

2267
01:58:20,079 --> 01:58:22,960
him and say that they endorse pedophilia, well so does

2268
01:58:23,000 --> 01:58:25,560
your Bible, and so does the Church, and so does Jesus.

2269
01:58:26,039 --> 01:58:28,520
Note that I'm not condemning the Bible or the Church

2270
01:58:28,600 --> 01:58:30,960
for this reason. So this is not a two quote

2271
01:58:31,000 --> 01:58:33,319
quay fallacy, as Jay is sure to say. But I'm

2272
01:58:33,399 --> 01:58:37,000
just pointing out the lack of consistency among many questions.

2273
01:58:37,079 --> 01:58:40,000
Thank you, all right, Okay, So what I'll do real

2274
01:58:40,279 --> 01:58:42,039
I want to a brief responsor.

2275
01:58:44,000 --> 01:58:45,680
Speaker 1: Know that, Yeah, that's that's the rest of the time.

2276
01:58:46,560 --> 01:58:50,000
What I'll do is Okay, So Bill's can we have

2277
01:58:50,079 --> 01:58:51,920
the chats ready? I'm gonna let them go another round.

2278
01:58:51,920 --> 01:58:53,520
Then I'll read the chats after this, because obviously I

2279
01:58:53,600 --> 01:58:56,119
know that they want to really respond to this. Yeah,

2280
01:58:56,199 --> 01:58:57,800
pull the chats up on the side and we'll have it.

2281
01:58:57,880 --> 01:58:59,720
So don't worry. I was going to read the chats,

2282
01:58:59,760 --> 01:59:01,680
but I know that you guys really want to respond.

2283
01:59:01,960 --> 01:59:03,600
So I'm going to have a Jay. You wanted to

2284
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:08,279
go first, right, Okay, you're going to put five minutes

2285
01:59:08,319 --> 01:59:10,880
on a clock. I'll reach out after they finished both

2286
01:59:10,960 --> 01:59:14,520
rounds of this word round two of the Bible versus

2287
01:59:14,520 --> 01:59:16,359
the Kuran, five minutes on a clock, Go ahead, Jay,

2288
01:59:16,359 --> 01:59:16,800
take it away.

2289
01:59:17,479 --> 01:59:19,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the first thing I would say that you'll

2290
01:59:19,039 --> 01:59:22,399
notice the double standard again because Daniel tried to argue

2291
01:59:22,479 --> 01:59:25,079
quite a bit for continuity there. But you'll notice that

2292
01:59:25,279 --> 01:59:27,880
earlier we had heard the Bible was corrupted, but now

2293
01:59:27,960 --> 01:59:30,279
all of these verses from the Old Testament somehow match

2294
01:59:30,359 --> 01:59:32,560
up to a kind of continuity with Islam. Well, wait

2295
01:59:32,560 --> 01:59:35,159
a minute, I thought all the Old Testament, Jesus, all

2296
01:59:35,199 --> 01:59:39,199
this was was corrupted. It's only corrupted when it doesn't

2297
01:59:39,319 --> 01:59:42,840
suit their purpose or their argumentation, that's a double standard. Next,

2298
01:59:42,880 --> 01:59:44,840
I would say that even in the Old Testament, the

2299
01:59:44,920 --> 01:59:48,800
rabbinic tradition, Jews did not always act upon these penalties.

2300
01:59:49,039 --> 01:59:52,520
Many of these penalties that were listed were about ritual impurity,

2301
01:59:52,720 --> 01:59:54,479
not all of them, but many of them were. And

2302
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,720
ritual impurity does carry over into the New Testament when

2303
01:59:57,880 --> 02:00:00,079
in our view what happens is that not so how

2304
02:00:00,159 --> 02:00:03,119
much the state, although Christian states have at times enacted

2305
02:00:03,239 --> 02:00:06,119
some things like that pulpy for the things that were listed,

2306
02:00:06,720 --> 02:00:09,199
it's ritual and purity in terms of coming to the liturgy.

2307
02:00:09,279 --> 02:00:11,000
So in the Orthodox and in the Calviny Church, we

2308
02:00:11,039 --> 02:00:13,960
both share this position. You do confess your sins before

2309
02:00:14,000 --> 02:00:16,399
you come to the Eucharist. That's because if you have

2310
02:00:16,479 --> 02:00:19,680
committed these sins, you are ritually and in a sense morally,

2311
02:00:19,760 --> 02:00:22,479
because the ritual refers to the moral, you're morally impure,

2312
02:00:22,560 --> 02:00:24,680
and so that's the purpose of confession. So many of

2313
02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:26,760
these things do carry over, just not in the way

2314
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:28,920
that they assume. And I would say that that's a

2315
02:00:29,000 --> 02:00:30,720
much better notion of continuity.

2316
02:00:30,960 --> 02:00:34,319
Speaker 5: I'll let you go ahead, Sam, Yeah, I want Daniel

2317
02:00:34,399 --> 02:00:37,039
to think. I want to thank Daniel for proving that

2318
02:00:37,159 --> 02:00:40,439
Jesus has got a law. Why because according to the

2319
02:00:40,560 --> 02:00:43,439
chron in chapter five, verse twenty to twenty six, it

2320
02:00:43,640 --> 02:00:47,199
was his a law that ordered Moses and Israelites tenter

2321
02:00:47,319 --> 02:00:50,479
Kanaan and wipe it out chapter five, verse twenty twenty six.

2322
02:00:51,079 --> 02:00:54,680
Also it was his a law that ordered salt, which

2323
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:59,680
the kron erroneously calls talu, because he fought jalut. And

2324
02:01:00,079 --> 02:01:02,720
I want him to justify tahu as a form of salt.

2325
02:01:03,079 --> 02:01:05,560
In chapter two, verse two forty six to two fifty one,

2326
02:01:06,000 --> 02:01:08,600
where it was his Allah, whom he said was Jesus,

2327
02:01:08,640 --> 02:01:10,920
So he just met Jesus, says Allah Mohammed's god in

2328
02:01:11,039 --> 02:01:13,520
judge in chapter two, verse two forty six to two

2329
02:01:13,600 --> 02:01:16,960
fifty one, who ordered Saul on these expeditions, and there's

2330
02:01:17,039 --> 02:01:20,359
not a word of condemnation by his prophet saying that

2331
02:01:20,720 --> 02:01:23,960
what Sal did to the livestock and children was an

2332
02:01:24,000 --> 02:01:26,359
abomination to a law that means he's better than his

2333
02:01:26,479 --> 02:01:28,960
god and his prophet. And again I want to thank

2334
02:01:29,079 --> 02:01:32,239
Daniel for proving that Jesus is Allah his god because

2335
02:01:32,399 --> 02:01:36,760
in Saihel Buhari, Volume four, number three fifty three asked

2336
02:01:36,800 --> 02:01:37,840
me to read it because I don't want to eat

2337
02:01:37,880 --> 02:01:41,600
up my time. There in an authentic narration, his prophet

2338
02:01:42,000 --> 02:01:45,560
refers to a prophet who went in an expedition jihad

2339
02:01:45,720 --> 02:01:48,840
and the son stood still, and his prophet narrates the

2340
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:53,319
injunctions of Deuran me chapter twenty and also alludes to

2341
02:01:53,920 --> 02:01:57,119
Joshua chapter seventy ten. So that means Jesus is a

2342
02:01:57,239 --> 02:02:01,000
law his god, Mohammad's judge, because of according to your prophet,

2343
02:02:01,239 --> 02:02:04,760
your God sanctioned these marriages. I'm not marriage. I'm sorry

2344
02:02:04,920 --> 02:02:08,239
these wars, so that means you're better than your God. Now, ironically,

2345
02:02:08,319 --> 02:02:10,800
he quoted Exodus twenty one seven, but as he's been

2346
02:02:10,840 --> 02:02:13,520
doing all night, all day, and all night, he didn't

2347
02:02:13,600 --> 02:02:16,960
quote the entire context because if you read the context,

2348
02:02:17,039 --> 02:02:20,000
the reason why she couldn't be let out is because

2349
02:02:20,199 --> 02:02:23,039
a woman that time can't be let go to be

2350
02:02:23,119 --> 02:02:24,680
on her own. She has to be under the protection

2351
02:02:25,159 --> 02:02:27,560
of the master or her father. But then the text

2352
02:02:27,600 --> 02:02:31,359
says that she's to be married, not raped like what

2353
02:02:31,560 --> 02:02:33,920
Mohammad did in chapter four Verus twenty four and the

2354
02:02:34,039 --> 02:02:37,520
Sunna when they took married captives and raped them and

2355
02:02:37,640 --> 02:02:40,439
sold them Exodus twenty one seven to eleven says he's

2356
02:02:40,520 --> 02:02:43,039
to marry her or her son marries her, and if

2357
02:02:43,079 --> 02:02:45,119
he cannot be fair with her, she is to be

2358
02:02:45,239 --> 02:02:49,359
divorced and let go. So conveniently, he doesn't show that

2359
02:02:49,520 --> 02:02:53,520
this context again condemns Mohammad and his morality. And ironically

2360
02:02:53,680 --> 02:02:58,039
he mentions about the age of marriage well in the tullmood,

2361
02:02:58,840 --> 02:03:02,439
because Muhammad quotes Tomud, and I'll show you where even

2362
02:03:02,520 --> 02:03:05,880
his prophet said that according to the Torah. He confused

2363
02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:08,560
the Tumud the Torah, a woman has to be past

2364
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:12,079
the age of twelve and show signs of maturity, and

2365
02:03:12,199 --> 02:03:15,680
he called that injunction in the Tumut the Torah. But

2366
02:03:15,880 --> 02:03:18,680
that means even by that standard his prophet is condemned

2367
02:03:18,720 --> 02:03:20,960
to hell because at the age of fifty four he

2368
02:03:21,079 --> 02:03:24,439
slept with a nine year old minor and sanctioned pedophilia.

2369
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:29,319
Because there is no limit or age in Islamic shetty,

2370
02:03:29,399 --> 02:03:32,000
according to his scholars, that would say a woman has

2371
02:03:32,039 --> 02:03:35,800
to be yahai or this age in order for a

2372
02:03:35,880 --> 02:03:38,399
man to mount her. And in the same tolament it

2373
02:03:38,479 --> 02:03:40,840
says you are not to give a girl who's mature

2374
02:03:40,920 --> 02:03:45,239
enough for marriage to an old man and Muhammad was

2375
02:03:45,319 --> 02:03:47,840
fifty four years old. You don't get any older than that.

2376
02:03:48,000 --> 02:03:50,560
He was old enough to be her great granddaddy. So

2377
02:03:50,600 --> 02:03:53,199
I'm glad you're appealing to the Jewish Christian sources because

2378
02:03:53,239 --> 02:03:55,680
these very sources to say your prophet is a false

2379
02:03:55,720 --> 02:03:58,319
prophet and Antichrist. Under the feet of Jesus.

2380
02:03:58,399 --> 02:03:59,079
Speaker 3: How much time I have?

2381
02:03:59,279 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 1: Twenty seconds?

2382
02:04:01,439 --> 02:04:04,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, ironically you mentioned it. Let me show you where

2383
02:04:04,479 --> 02:04:07,359
it says and the tall mut right here where it

2384
02:04:07,439 --> 02:04:13,239
says that you cannot give a young girl maturnoff for marriage,

2385
02:04:13,279 --> 02:04:15,640
which is past the age of twelfth to an old man. Here,

2386
02:04:15,720 --> 02:04:17,840
let me read this verse is referring to one who

2387
02:04:17,880 --> 02:04:19,399
marries his daughter to best time.

2388
02:04:20,439 --> 02:04:20,920
Speaker 4: Timbs up.

2389
02:04:21,399 --> 02:04:21,840
Speaker 1: That's time.

2390
02:04:22,439 --> 02:04:25,920
Speaker 4: I know you want it to be okay physically.

2391
02:04:26,279 --> 02:04:28,680
Speaker 2: All right, So I'm just showing a picture of Mario

2392
02:04:28,840 --> 02:04:31,920
here because he's a famous plumber and he's with his princess,

2393
02:04:32,119 --> 02:04:36,760
so I think that has significance. Plumbers, for Sam, can.

2394
02:04:36,720 --> 02:04:42,239
Speaker 1: I just ask you a question? You have just ask

2395
02:04:42,319 --> 02:04:44,399
him questions. You have a chance to ask him a

2396
02:04:44,479 --> 02:04:46,840
question when we do the fire round. But I'm going

2397
02:04:46,920 --> 02:04:49,239
to turn it back to Team Islam here. We're going

2398
02:04:49,319 --> 02:04:52,119
to give you guys. One, No, we got one more

2399
02:04:52,199 --> 02:04:55,319
round five minutes for five minutes that you guys got,

2400
02:04:55,600 --> 02:04:58,119
So this is going to be teams now. It's going

2401
02:04:58,159 --> 02:04:59,399
to be on you guys five minutes.

2402
02:05:00,119 --> 02:05:05,199
Speaker 2: Uh. Would you notice Christian audience that your champions here

2403
02:05:05,359 --> 02:05:09,000
did not mention child marriage? Are they dodging that issue?

2404
02:05:09,439 --> 02:05:12,920
Why didn't Jay or Sam mention child marriage? I thought

2405
02:05:13,359 --> 02:05:17,159
that Islam promotes pedophilia. You know why they didn't address

2406
02:05:17,239 --> 02:05:20,359
child marriage because they know that can in law in

2407
02:05:20,479 --> 02:05:25,600
the Catholic Church and Thomas Aquinas endorse child marriage and

2408
02:05:25,640 --> 02:05:29,239
marriage at age twelve twelve years old? Is that pedophilia?

2409
02:05:29,800 --> 02:05:30,039
Speaker 1: Sam?

2410
02:05:30,079 --> 02:05:32,239
Speaker 2: Why don't you answer that question? How about you? Jay?

2411
02:05:32,520 --> 02:05:37,159
You want to condemn the church for endorsing pedophilia, and

2412
02:05:37,279 --> 02:05:39,520
then he makes a big deal about how oh the

2413
02:05:39,640 --> 02:05:43,640
Old Testament you take the captives for marriage, as if

2414
02:05:43,680 --> 02:05:48,800
that's any different. You're taking captives. It's not a consensual relationship, Sam, Like,

2415
02:05:48,880 --> 02:05:52,119
who are you trying to fool? The Bible says take

2416
02:05:52,239 --> 02:05:55,399
these women and then shave their heads and then marry them.

2417
02:05:55,800 --> 02:05:58,319
It's not giving them a humiliate them, it's not giving

2418
02:05:58,359 --> 02:06:03,359
them an option. So I'm not condemning. Notice, get the logic, right,

2419
02:06:03,479 --> 02:06:06,520
Sam and Jay, I'm not condemning the Bible for slavery.

2420
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:10,640
I believe that Islam also endorses slavery. Islam also endorses war,

2421
02:06:10,760 --> 02:06:12,640
but we don't go as far as Jesus in command

2422
02:06:12,720 --> 02:06:16,079
and killing babies like he does in Deuteronomy in numbers.

2423
02:06:16,479 --> 02:06:20,279
I don't condemn Christianity or the Bible or Catholicism for

2424
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:24,399
this minor marriage, marrying girls as young as nine, ten, eleven.

2425
02:06:24,640 --> 02:06:26,640
I don't condemn that because I think that there's nothing

2426
02:06:26,680 --> 02:06:28,880
wrong with that. But I want your audience to know

2427
02:06:29,000 --> 02:06:31,600
that you don't find anything wrong with that. You don't

2428
02:06:31,600 --> 02:06:34,000
find anything wrong with a twelve year old getting married,

2429
02:06:34,119 --> 02:06:37,239
because that's what the Catholic Church, that's their morality, and

2430
02:06:37,319 --> 02:06:39,560
that's what this section of the debate is about. It's

2431
02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:41,640
about morality. So I'm giving it to you.

2432
02:06:41,840 --> 02:06:48,000
Speaker 4: Juzz Yeah, I'm just interested in Sam, just a quick question,

2433
02:06:48,439 --> 02:06:52,359
why didn't you mention anything about abusing wives beaten wives?

2434
02:06:52,399 --> 02:06:55,520
I understand why you mentioned rape. I mean, I can

2435
02:06:55,680 --> 02:06:58,039
understand why you did that. Like what is the god

2436
02:06:58,079 --> 02:07:01,840
of the Bible that I mean? Which one? So just

2437
02:07:01,880 --> 02:07:03,800
to be clear here, Sam, can you let us know

2438
02:07:04,399 --> 02:07:08,399
what does the Bible teach about violence against your wives,

2439
02:07:09,279 --> 02:07:11,960
the limits at which you can umiliate them. Let's keep

2440
02:07:12,000 --> 02:07:15,119
in mind that Jesus in Matchew twenty three commands the

2441
02:07:15,159 --> 02:07:19,960
disciples and Christians to do and believe as the Pharisees believe.

2442
02:07:20,039 --> 02:07:23,000
And if I'm not wrong, they really liked young girls

2443
02:07:23,279 --> 02:07:26,359
three years older than one day. I mean, Jesus seems

2444
02:07:26,359 --> 02:07:28,399
to ocup with it. But are you ok with that?

2445
02:07:28,720 --> 02:07:28,760
Speaker 5: Some?

2446
02:07:29,039 --> 02:07:31,359
Speaker 4: Are you ok with that side of Jesus seems a

2447
02:07:31,479 --> 02:07:32,560
bit haughty for you, isn't it.

2448
02:07:33,760 --> 02:07:36,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're pointing out plumbers because I think Sam has

2449
02:07:36,199 --> 02:07:38,800
a lot of experience with plumbers. He wants to insult. Hey,

2450
02:07:38,880 --> 02:07:44,479
don't interrupt our time, brother, don't interrupt, don't interrupt our time, moderator, moderator.

2451
02:07:44,239 --> 02:07:47,399
Speaker 1: Just let them up. So we want to we want God.

2452
02:07:47,479 --> 02:07:50,479
Speaker 2: We wanted to be courteous and not bring this stuff up.

2453
02:07:50,600 --> 02:07:53,199
But when Sam gets down and dirty and starts insulting

2454
02:07:53,279 --> 02:07:56,520
the prophet Mohammed, then we have to respond in kind.

2455
02:07:56,760 --> 02:07:59,880
We have to insult Sam and point out his vile

2456
02:08:00,079 --> 02:08:01,920
history and the kinds of filth that he puts on

2457
02:08:02,039 --> 02:08:05,239
his channel. So we're just playing fair. You wanted to

2458
02:08:05,319 --> 02:08:08,199
go down and dirty and use filthy language. Then we're

2459
02:08:08,239 --> 02:08:10,479
going to bring up the fact that a plumber basically

2460
02:08:10,560 --> 02:08:13,279
stole your wife and you and you had certain charges

2461
02:08:13,279 --> 02:08:16,600
against you. That's all. That's all. Now, condemned, child condemned. No,

2462
02:08:16,680 --> 02:08:17,359
our time is not up.

2463
02:08:17,439 --> 02:08:18,239
Speaker 1: They got tom.

2464
02:08:19,279 --> 02:08:21,720
Speaker 2: We have some time left. So we want to hear

2465
02:08:21,880 --> 02:08:25,640
you condemn child marriage. I didn't. And to go back

2466
02:08:25,640 --> 02:08:28,600
to what Jay said, I never said anything about continuity.

2467
02:08:28,760 --> 02:08:30,600
I never said that. Oh, what we find in the

2468
02:08:30,680 --> 02:08:34,399
Old Testament is continuous in terms of morality with the Quran.

2469
02:08:34,520 --> 02:08:36,279
I never claimed this. You just pulled this out of

2470
02:08:36,359 --> 02:08:39,600
your back pocket. Jay. We were not talking about rituals.

2471
02:08:39,640 --> 02:08:43,079
We're talking about practice of practices of war. The thing

2472
02:08:43,239 --> 02:08:46,520
is that the Bible says to genocide little babies, to

2473
02:08:46,680 --> 02:08:50,880
leave nothing that breathes alive. The Quran never says this. Yes,

2474
02:08:50,920 --> 02:08:53,560
the Quran commands war. There is the story of Moses

2475
02:08:53,600 --> 02:08:56,279
going to battle, Yeah, that exists, but there's no genocide

2476
02:08:56,800 --> 02:09:00,640
that is mentioned. Because the Quran is correcting the false

2477
02:09:01,520 --> 02:09:03,920
narratives that are found in the Old Testament, all the

2478
02:09:04,039 --> 02:09:07,119
additions that we find in all the different variations of

2479
02:09:07,319 --> 02:09:10,199
the Bible that we've discussed in the previous section. So

2480
02:09:10,319 --> 02:09:14,039
that's the difference. And yes, please, everyone is waiting. Stop

2481
02:09:14,159 --> 02:09:17,479
dodging the issue. Condemn child marriage. Tell us that the

2482
02:09:17,600 --> 02:09:21,600
Catholic Church is really a pedophilia organization over the centuries,

2483
02:09:21,680 --> 02:09:24,439
because canon law not the tal mood. We're not talking

2484
02:09:24,439 --> 02:09:26,840
about the tal mood. We're talking about Canon law says

2485
02:09:26,920 --> 02:09:30,319
that twelve years old is the age of marriage acceptable

2486
02:09:30,359 --> 02:09:33,600
age of marriage. So condemn that, please. We're waiting, Jay

2487
02:09:33,720 --> 02:09:35,720
and Sam, go ahead, you Jess.

2488
02:09:36,680 --> 02:09:39,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean they're going to condemned that because they

2489
02:09:39,239 --> 02:09:42,520
accept it historically. At least. Let's just be clear here.

2490
02:09:42,800 --> 02:09:46,800
We're not saying that this is hypocritical, but you're not consistent.

2491
02:09:46,880 --> 02:09:49,439
Who cares about virtuals in Greece When it comes down

2492
02:09:49,520 --> 02:09:52,720
to the meats and the matter, You guys approve child marriage.

2493
02:09:53,039 --> 02:09:56,119
Jesus approved it, the Pharisee has approved it, and this

2494
02:09:56,279 --> 02:09:58,960
is what you believe. I really want some to speak

2495
02:09:59,319 --> 02:10:02,239
on whether know a person can abuse their wife, whether

2496
02:10:02,359 --> 02:10:06,720
a person can take donation money, spend it incorrectly, maybe

2497
02:10:06,800 --> 02:10:09,399
spend it on young girls. Wouldn't be surprised to find

2498
02:10:09,439 --> 02:10:11,560
you enough Stein's list to be honest. So I just

2499
02:10:11,680 --> 02:10:14,680
really want some to ask and answer the question, do

2500
02:10:14,840 --> 02:10:18,439
you accept Sam do you accept child marriage? Yes or no?

2501
02:10:18,720 --> 02:10:21,479
And based on what we would like to know Jesus

2502
02:10:22,399 --> 02:10:24,239
is Jay condemn it? You condemned it?

2503
02:10:27,239 --> 02:10:27,520
Speaker 1: Okay?

2504
02:10:27,960 --> 02:10:30,920
Speaker 4: Five seconds? Five seconds? He take it back five seconds

2505
02:10:31,279 --> 02:10:32,640
when just reclaimed the five seconds.

2506
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:35,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're gonna don't demand something.

2507
02:10:35,279 --> 02:10:37,600
Speaker 4: From us that you yourself aren't consistent with.

2508
02:10:37,880 --> 02:10:39,600
Speaker 1: Okay, We're gonna add ten seconds to the clock for

2509
02:10:39,640 --> 02:10:42,800
Team Christianity for that. Okay, I'm gonna give you guys

2510
02:10:42,840 --> 02:10:45,319
five minutes on o'clock. This is gonna be the beginning

2511
02:10:45,399 --> 02:10:48,439
of round three. Okay. Uh So this is gonna be

2512
02:10:48,479 --> 02:10:54,960
the final round on Bible versus kron uh morality, human morality.

2513
02:10:55,399 --> 02:10:57,840
Uh So, I'll put five minutes on the clock. What

2514
02:10:58,000 --> 02:11:00,600
I'll do is I don't want to interrupt this. So

2515
02:11:00,640 --> 02:11:02,800
what we'll do is we'll read the chats after they

2516
02:11:02,840 --> 02:11:05,520
complete this round and then before they do the fire

2517
02:11:05,600 --> 02:11:08,560
round where they you know, open dialogue, then we'll do

2518
02:11:08,600 --> 02:11:10,600
the chats. Sorry to you, guys, I don't want to

2519
02:11:10,640 --> 02:11:11,880
interrupt it. You know what I mean, and the flow

2520
02:11:11,880 --> 02:11:13,800
and everything else like that. My job here's to monterie

2521
02:11:13,840 --> 02:11:15,720
give you guys, the best show. Don't want to interrupt

2522
02:11:15,760 --> 02:11:17,279
it with super chats right now. I'll do it after

2523
02:11:17,640 --> 02:11:19,760
we finished this and then we'll do the final thing.

2524
02:11:20,279 --> 02:11:21,680
So round three, five, ten on the clock for a

2525
02:11:21,720 --> 02:11:23,560
team Christianity. I know, Sam, you got a lot to say,

2526
02:11:23,640 --> 02:11:24,159
so go ahead.

2527
02:11:24,880 --> 02:11:26,359
Speaker 5: Well, but Jay, do you want to say something real quick?

2528
02:11:26,399 --> 02:11:29,279
Speaker 3: Yeah? Briefly so, I was referring to the topic that

2529
02:11:29,399 --> 02:11:32,000
Daniel and I debated and the way he's using these

2530
02:11:32,079 --> 02:11:34,840
texts here in this debate. Both of those situations show

2531
02:11:34,920 --> 02:11:37,720
that Daniel only uses the Old Testament when he suits

2532
02:11:37,760 --> 02:11:40,479
his purposes, and he's not consistent with it. In that debate,

2533
02:11:40,560 --> 02:11:43,359
he argued that Islam has more continuity with the Old

2534
02:11:43,399 --> 02:11:46,439
Testament because of whether there's some loose similarities between the

2535
02:11:46,560 --> 02:11:48,960
moms and places where you go and pray in a

2536
02:11:49,039 --> 02:11:51,239
mosque or whatever. That has nothing to do with the

2537
02:11:51,359 --> 02:11:54,399
continuity that the argument and that debate was about. Here,

2538
02:11:54,479 --> 02:11:57,359
he's using it as another way to say, these are

2539
02:11:57,399 --> 02:11:59,039
the texts and the Old Testament that are valid to

2540
02:11:59,119 --> 02:12:02,039
teach this. And my point is that he's arbitrary and

2541
02:12:02,119 --> 02:12:04,880
he has a double standard, and that's an internal critique

2542
02:12:04,920 --> 02:12:07,640
which neither of them have ever never understood. I've made

2543
02:12:07,680 --> 02:12:09,479
this point in every debate we have. They don't know

2544
02:12:09,520 --> 02:12:11,600
what an internal critique is. They think that it means

2545
02:12:11,680 --> 02:12:13,680
that you hold to your position. That's not what an

2546
02:12:13,720 --> 02:12:15,680
internal critique is. It's just showing that you have a

2547
02:12:15,760 --> 02:12:17,680
double standard. I'll let it go to you, Sam.

2548
02:12:18,279 --> 02:12:20,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, Now, let me get back and answer the questions.

2549
02:12:20,399 --> 02:12:21,760
They think that I'm going to run like they've been

2550
02:12:21,800 --> 02:12:24,119
running by the Great of Jesus Christ. Now, as far

2551
02:12:24,199 --> 02:12:28,239
as those accusations, let's assume those accusations are true. All

2552
02:12:28,279 --> 02:12:30,159
you're proving is that I'm a sinner. I'm faithful to

2553
02:12:30,239 --> 02:12:32,520
the teachings of Christ. But I was acting like Muhammad

2554
02:12:32,880 --> 02:12:34,720
because Muhammad did a lot of plumbing with a lot

2555
02:12:34,760 --> 02:12:37,039
of women other than his own wives. Because when he's

2556
02:12:37,039 --> 02:12:41,199
sanctioned the rape of married women, raping them and selling

2557
02:12:41,239 --> 02:12:44,600
them off as channel, that's condemned by the God of

2558
02:12:44,640 --> 02:12:47,039
Moses and Deronomy twenty one ten to fourteen. So Lord,

2559
02:12:47,079 --> 02:12:49,640
forgive me for acting like Muhammad, because I know acting

2560
02:12:49,680 --> 02:12:52,640
like Mohammad leads me to hell, So I may have mercy. Now,

2561
02:12:52,720 --> 02:12:56,800
let's come back to the issue you kept saying that

2562
02:12:57,439 --> 02:13:02,000
will we condemn child marriage absolutely. And here Ezekiel sixteen

2563
02:13:02,079 --> 02:13:05,760
versus sixty eight, first quenteen seventh verse, chapter seven, verse

2564
02:13:05,800 --> 02:13:09,119
thirty six, the dedicate in chapter two, as well as

2565
02:13:09,159 --> 02:13:12,039
a tulmud. The reason why they say twelve if you

2566
02:13:12,079 --> 02:13:15,039
are in context, and I'm going to challenge Daniel, give

2567
02:13:15,119 --> 02:13:18,840
me the full quotation of Thomas and Quinas unedited, because

2568
02:13:18,880 --> 02:13:20,920
you're like your prophet, you like to edit and quote

2569
02:13:20,960 --> 02:13:25,319
out of context. They're placing it at twelve because that's

2570
02:13:25,359 --> 02:13:27,560
when they assume that a woman will reach puberty. And

2571
02:13:27,680 --> 02:13:30,680
even then they say she has to wait a little

2572
02:13:31,199 --> 02:13:35,279
time beyond twelve. For example, here in the Tomat says

2573
02:13:35,600 --> 02:13:38,359
not only twelve, but sometime after that when her breast

2574
02:13:38,359 --> 02:13:41,520
start formed, because they took that as indication that she's

2575
02:13:41,600 --> 02:13:45,239
now pubescent and that she's now knowledgeable enough to choose

2576
02:13:45,279 --> 02:13:48,039
marriage or reject marriage. So even by their standards, you

2577
02:13:48,119 --> 02:13:52,119
condemned Mohammad a hell because according to that very standard,

2578
02:13:52,479 --> 02:13:56,520
Mohammed mounted a nine year old. He was fifty four.

2579
02:13:56,960 --> 02:13:59,560
So Christian and Jewish sources would condemn him as a

2580
02:13:59,640 --> 02:14:02,439
petal file who desired a nine year old and he

2581
02:14:02,640 --> 02:14:05,159
mounted her. And then your Kuran and sixty five ors

2582
02:14:05,159 --> 02:14:08,680
four doesn't even have the age of twelve as the limit.

2583
02:14:09,039 --> 02:14:11,000
So yes, I condemn it, which is why I condemn

2584
02:14:11,039 --> 02:14:13,279
your prophet. And as far as violence, well, it's your

2585
02:14:13,359 --> 02:14:15,840
Kuran that says that you guys can beat your wives.

2586
02:14:15,960 --> 02:14:18,039
So if you want to accuse me of that, more

2587
02:14:18,119 --> 02:14:20,760
power to you. Lord Jesus forgive me. I'm a sinner

2588
02:14:20,960 --> 02:14:21,479
because I was.

2589
02:14:21,479 --> 02:14:23,640
Speaker 3: Acting I at one point, Santa. I want to add,

2590
02:14:23,800 --> 02:14:27,199
just to point out aromic, I'm not Catholic. And as

2591
02:14:27,239 --> 02:14:29,279
a side note, I don't care what Thomas Aquinas says,

2592
02:14:29,359 --> 02:14:32,279
but irregardless of all that, it's not even true in

2593
02:14:32,359 --> 02:14:34,720
Catholic canon law that that's the age. It's sixteen for

2594
02:14:34,840 --> 02:14:37,159
a guy and it's fourteen for a woman, which again

2595
02:14:37,239 --> 02:14:39,319
presupposes that puberty has already happened.

2596
02:14:40,079 --> 02:14:44,079
Speaker 5: Now, how much time we have minute? Yeah, and now

2597
02:14:44,279 --> 02:14:46,560
notice again they just prove that Jesus is a lot

2598
02:14:46,640 --> 02:14:50,680
Mohammed's god because their god Allah, who is Jesus. He's

2599
02:14:50,720 --> 02:14:53,920
the one who sanctioned what Moses did and canaan what

2600
02:14:54,119 --> 02:14:56,039
Joshua did, and I gave him a sources. Now notice

2601
02:14:56,079 --> 02:14:58,520
what they did. Oh yeah, it's just you know, an

2602
02:14:58,720 --> 02:15:02,039
instruction to go go ahead and carry out these expeditions generally.

2603
02:15:02,159 --> 02:15:04,000
But where does it say that in the Koran. And

2604
02:15:04,079 --> 02:15:06,960
here's my challenge to Daniel and Ijaz. Show me in

2605
02:15:07,079 --> 02:15:14,239
your Koran the explicit condemnation prohibition, explicit condemnation prohibition of

2606
02:15:14,439 --> 02:15:17,960
killing children, because I'll show you in your Koran where

2607
02:15:18,039 --> 02:15:22,520
your own God destroyed women, children, cattle, for example, in

2608
02:15:22,600 --> 02:15:25,640
the flood of Moses. I'm sorry, Noah, because the chron

2609
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:28,720
does confuse two floods when a time of Moses and Noah,

2610
02:15:29,159 --> 02:15:31,199
and as well as Sodom tomorrow where he pelt them

2611
02:15:31,239 --> 02:15:34,479
with stones. Can you show me where your God discriminated

2612
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:37,840
and said, oh okay, hey stone, that's a baby, avoid him.

2613
02:15:38,039 --> 02:15:41,720
That's California. But that pagan right there, recommend head show

2614
02:15:41,720 --> 02:15:44,239
it to me. And you're fully aware that your own

2615
02:15:44,439 --> 02:15:49,600
hadith mention where your prophet allowed women and children to

2616
02:15:49,720 --> 02:15:53,920
be killed indiscriminately. That's even in your own Hadith. But again,

2617
02:15:54,079 --> 02:15:56,279
like you've been doing with the Bible, you've been butchering

2618
02:15:56,319 --> 02:15:58,600
your Koran and your son now. And I don't blame

2619
02:15:58,680 --> 02:16:01,680
you because if I I'd have to resort to these

2620
02:16:01,760 --> 02:16:04,720
tactics because you can't define a lie mamma is then,

2621
02:16:04,760 --> 02:16:08,520
and Jesus is alive. End up story thirty seconds, all right,

2622
02:16:08,640 --> 02:16:11,680
So that's it. Anytime they attack the morality, they just

2623
02:16:11,840 --> 02:16:14,800
prove Mammaeda is a false prophet, their god Allaw is

2624
02:16:14,840 --> 02:16:17,239
a false god. And they are for other reasons because

2625
02:16:17,319 --> 02:16:20,880
your prophet confirms the Bible. My Bible doesn't confirm Muhammad,

2626
02:16:21,079 --> 02:16:24,439
and they keep forgetting Jesus is now the standard. And

2627
02:16:24,560 --> 02:16:27,039
even though the Old Testaments not the standard, even the

2628
02:16:27,159 --> 02:16:29,279
laws of the Old Testament are better than your prophet.

2629
02:16:29,359 --> 02:16:31,840
And notice what he said about captives. The reason why

2630
02:16:31,960 --> 02:16:34,120
she's taken captive there was a war, but that shows

2631
02:16:34,159 --> 02:16:36,680
to the humanity of the God of Moses. You don't

2632
02:16:36,760 --> 02:16:39,559
take a captive woman and raper like your prophet did.

2633
02:16:40,120 --> 02:16:43,239
Speaker 1: All right, So what we're gonna do now is I'm

2634
02:16:43,239 --> 02:16:44,719
going to read the chats real quick, and then we're

2635
02:16:44,719 --> 02:16:47,959
going to go ahead and do a What I'll do

2636
02:16:48,000 --> 02:16:49,520
is I'll probably put ten minutes on a clock, says

2637
02:16:49,719 --> 02:16:51,239
it's the last one where you guys can go back

2638
02:16:51,239 --> 02:16:53,920
and forth with your discourse, and we'll do the same thing.

2639
02:16:54,920 --> 02:16:58,040
Question answer, question answer. We'll try to bop it around

2640
02:16:58,079 --> 02:17:00,840
and guys, if you could please answer each other's question please.

2641
02:17:01,239 --> 02:17:03,840
Uh so, I'll read these chats real quick and then

2642
02:17:03,879 --> 02:17:08,120
we'll get right back into it. What do we got here? Bills? Okay,

2643
02:17:08,879 --> 02:17:10,920
Dan Fry says the guy in the top corners opening

2644
02:17:10,959 --> 02:17:13,239
statement with shash water could be solid, liquid, could be gassed.

2645
02:17:13,239 --> 02:17:15,559
But there are some things in different father forms father son,

2646
02:17:15,600 --> 02:17:18,760
holy goes of course, and just you guys know, debaters,

2647
02:17:18,760 --> 02:17:21,079
the chatter is going to be bias towards their religion,

2648
02:17:21,120 --> 02:17:23,079
so it is what it is. Silad Sort says Sam.

2649
02:17:23,440 --> 02:17:26,440
Why would you say the words prove and rational in

2650
02:17:26,520 --> 02:17:28,559
a debate about religion? Why is it left hand such

2651
02:17:28,559 --> 02:17:31,159
an issue? Please mind etiquette when you're in a debate,

2652
02:17:31,280 --> 02:17:34,440
because pointless jab derailed the conversation. Okay, that's what Silace Sword,

2653
02:17:34,760 --> 02:17:37,239
We got h mark you, Matt. I know you're trying

2654
02:17:37,239 --> 02:17:39,159
to be professional timing rounds, but people want to see

2655
02:17:39,159 --> 02:17:41,760
blood blasts, so you should add an actual last round

2656
02:17:41,760 --> 02:17:43,120
where both parties just go at it. We did, we

2657
02:17:43,200 --> 02:17:45,799
got that. Don't worry, we were already on that. Mark you.

2658
02:17:46,799 --> 02:17:50,159
This Sam guy is unseerious. He goes and craatezone understanding

2659
02:17:50,159 --> 02:17:51,719
of his lump shows as integrity. I bet you will

2660
02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:55,600
find many contradictions if his understanding of Christianity is investigated. Okay,

2661
02:17:55,719 --> 02:17:58,840
Odi didan How come Islam was created six thirty five

2662
02:17:59,000 --> 02:18:00,719
and the Gospel John was created one hundred a d.

2663
02:18:01,079 --> 02:18:02,840
John was an eye witness. He saw I lived and

2664
02:18:02,959 --> 02:18:05,239
eat eating with Jesus. Should I believe in a cave

2665
02:18:05,360 --> 02:18:08,399
or a witness of Jesus Christ? Okay, Andrew Wilson, and

2666
02:18:08,440 --> 02:18:12,399
this is from army killo. We got snow, Valentine says,

2667
02:18:12,840 --> 02:18:15,440
just asking aren't we all going to hell under Islam?

2668
02:18:15,520 --> 02:18:18,000
And there's nothing we can do to correct it because

2669
02:18:18,040 --> 02:18:21,959
of our sinful nature? Okay, Snow, Valentine, we got here.

2670
02:18:22,040 --> 02:18:23,879
Mayn thank you for bringing this great debate together in

2671
02:18:23,920 --> 02:18:26,159
respect to all four men who are participating, Can I

2672
02:18:26,239 --> 02:18:28,840
recommend Christian Price to join? The next to me, Sam

2673
02:18:28,920 --> 02:18:30,200
can ask to join if you approved?

2674
02:18:30,239 --> 02:18:32,360
Speaker 5: Thanks again, Yeah, Prince, he means prince.

2675
02:18:32,639 --> 02:18:35,000
Speaker 1: Okay, that's when beings burner and guys. Sorry, my voice

2676
02:18:35,040 --> 02:18:36,840
is like this. I'm a little sick. So that's why

2677
02:18:36,840 --> 02:18:38,600
I've been like meeting myself in coughing on the side,

2678
02:18:38,719 --> 02:18:40,879
trying not to interrupt the debate. Does se Muslims even

2679
02:18:40,920 --> 02:18:43,920
know who Canaanites were they were an abomination, descendants of

2680
02:18:44,120 --> 02:18:48,239
neph frillen, fallen angels, demons, et cetera. Okay, Muslims struggle

2681
02:18:48,280 --> 02:18:51,879
with grasping nuanced concepts and have low cognitive flexibility. That's

2682
02:18:51,879 --> 02:18:54,600
from Saint Craper. This is why Sam's in the kitchen always, man,

2683
02:18:54,680 --> 02:18:58,000
stay cooking us from stone. Yeah t three, See guys,

2684
02:18:58,079 --> 02:19:00,479
You guys got supported on both sides every day. Young

2685
02:19:00,520 --> 02:19:03,120
And says this might be to Skitzo, but Zurka and

2686
02:19:03,280 --> 02:19:06,559
Sicco big spiritual influencers. One thing Sirka said that has

2687
02:19:06,639 --> 02:19:09,559
me learning more Christian is why is Jesus' most mock

2688
02:19:09,680 --> 02:19:14,680
figure if he wasn't God? Okay. Hamza says, Islam translates

2689
02:19:14,680 --> 02:19:16,760
the submission to God in Arabic language, all lot translates

2690
02:19:16,799 --> 02:19:19,639
to God in Arabic and Arabic languages. Christiated comes from

2691
02:19:19,639 --> 02:19:21,920
the word Messia in Greek language refers to Prophet Jesus.

2692
02:19:22,040 --> 02:19:25,479
Judaism comes from the tribe of Judah. Only Islam doesn't

2693
02:19:25,479 --> 02:19:28,079
associate anyone with God. The first human being a prophet,

2694
02:19:28,079 --> 02:19:31,879
Adam submitted himself to God, not the Messiah or Judah tribe. Okay.

2695
02:19:32,159 --> 02:19:34,120
And then the man Matt says, if you follow any

2696
02:19:34,239 --> 02:19:36,680
religion to the tea with fear or just blind faith,

2697
02:19:36,719 --> 02:19:38,319
I'm sorry, but you are a slave and cannot think

2698
02:19:38,360 --> 02:19:40,239
for yourself. There's no separation between us and God. We

2699
02:19:40,319 --> 02:19:41,879
are all a part of God. We all do what

2700
02:19:42,000 --> 02:19:44,000
Jesus did, who was black, by the way, and his

2701
02:19:44,120 --> 02:19:47,719
name was Yeshua. Yeah, yeah, yes Shua. Modern society has

2702
02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:50,280
forced the masses to believe that we all like peasants

2703
02:19:50,360 --> 02:19:53,719
to some omnipresent on the potent being, which couldn't be

2704
02:19:53,879 --> 02:19:56,559
farther from the truth. Everyone here needs to study Neville

2705
02:19:56,680 --> 02:20:00,600
Goddard's cheek teachings. Okay, wfn F, guys for making this

2706
02:20:00,680 --> 02:20:03,040
happen question for Sam and Jay if prova of Jesus,

2707
02:20:03,360 --> 02:20:05,879
peace be upon him, were to come back, which will happen?

2708
02:20:06,159 --> 02:20:08,280
What would happen to the Muslims who believe in him

2709
02:20:08,319 --> 02:20:11,040
as a prophet Banaa's God. Anyways, guys, we have much

2710
02:20:11,079 --> 02:20:13,200
more common than in differences, So he asks this question

2711
02:20:13,319 --> 02:20:18,559
for Team Christianity. Says, here, if Jesus came back, and

2712
02:20:19,120 --> 02:20:21,399
what would happen to the Muslims who believe him as

2713
02:20:21,399 --> 02:20:22,520
a prophet versus as a god?

2714
02:20:23,799 --> 02:20:25,719
Speaker 5: That's question you wantest answered, Jay. Do you want to

2715
02:20:25,719 --> 02:20:26,799
take it first or you want me to take it.

2716
02:20:27,959 --> 02:20:28,159
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2717
02:20:28,239 --> 02:20:30,200
Speaker 5: When you say that the Muslims are reject Jesus, well

2718
02:20:30,280 --> 02:20:35,280
you got to take into consideration when you mean Muslims.

2719
02:20:35,319 --> 02:20:37,840
Not all Muslims know what they're rejecting. Not all Muslims

2720
02:20:37,920 --> 02:20:42,200
know this Islam Islam. Not all Muslims are educated. The

2721
02:20:42,280 --> 02:20:44,879
Lord Jesus is a god of infinite compassion and mercy.

2722
02:20:45,559 --> 02:20:49,600
He sees your situation, he meets you where you're at,

2723
02:20:50,040 --> 02:20:51,719
and if to no fault of your own, you didn't

2724
02:20:51,719 --> 02:20:54,239
know the truth of the Gospel, he extends mercy. So

2725
02:20:54,399 --> 02:20:57,520
this is my belief. Again, I'm speaking from my perspective.

2726
02:20:57,600 --> 02:20:59,879
Jay may have a different perspective. So you can't just

2727
02:21:00,200 --> 02:21:03,680
generalize all Muslims because not all Muslims know Islam. They

2728
02:21:03,719 --> 02:21:06,280
don't even know what Christians believe, just like Christians may

2729
02:21:06,360 --> 02:21:09,399
not know their faith right, let alone what Muslims believe.

2730
02:21:09,879 --> 02:21:11,760
God is a god of infinite mercy. And I don't

2731
02:21:11,760 --> 02:21:13,760
think the Muslims would disagree with me because you take

2732
02:21:13,799 --> 02:21:17,840
into consideration your circumstances, your knowledge, and your status and

2733
02:21:17,879 --> 02:21:19,959
position in life. That's my answer. I don't know if

2734
02:21:20,000 --> 02:21:21,639
Jay wants to answer some add.

2735
02:21:21,440 --> 02:21:27,399
Speaker 1: Something to it. Jay, what do you think? What's yours?

2736
02:21:27,479 --> 02:21:29,120
Speaker 4: Just that with me?

2737
02:21:29,360 --> 02:21:31,879
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I want to add I think, I mean,

2738
02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:33,920
I think I pretty much agree. I think Romans to

2739
02:21:34,399 --> 02:21:36,879
Paul addresses this. He says that those without law will

2740
02:21:36,920 --> 02:21:39,600
be judged on the basis of moral law or the

2741
02:21:39,719 --> 02:21:42,319
natural law that they have within them. So, you know,

2742
02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:45,639
we don't know people's destinies other than God tells us

2743
02:21:45,719 --> 02:21:48,639
to tell them to repent, and then ultimately God is

2744
02:21:48,639 --> 02:21:49,840
their merciful judge.

2745
02:21:50,040 --> 02:21:53,879
Speaker 1: All right, any more chats in there? We all right,

2746
02:21:53,920 --> 02:21:56,879
I'm gonna fly through these. Okay. Victor says wise Man

2747
02:21:56,920 --> 02:21:59,440
once said you can't solve today's problems politically because men's

2748
02:21:59,479 --> 02:22:03,280
problems are spiritual. All agree? Okay. Slavii's uphold this is

2749
02:22:03,319 --> 02:22:08,719
from Gambler, So Lafi's uphold God's transcendence and reject anthrop anthromorphism.

2750
02:22:09,000 --> 02:22:12,200
They interpret chronic descriptions like hand or face as symbolic

2751
02:22:12,280 --> 02:22:15,120
of allows power, not literal human traits, ensuring that his

2752
02:22:15,719 --> 02:22:21,799
attributes remain distinct from human characteristics. Okay. Aristotle Online says

2753
02:22:22,040 --> 02:22:26,159
Islamic tawheed has been proven contradict this from titias. Okay,

2754
02:22:26,200 --> 02:22:29,120
go ahead, we can play. It just came in earlier

2755
02:22:29,159 --> 02:22:31,440
tour if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, it came in a

2756
02:22:31,440 --> 02:22:33,840
way early. I can't even hear.

2757
02:22:34,000 --> 02:22:37,959
Speaker 7: Islamic tom feed has been proven contradictory. But the response

2758
02:22:38,040 --> 02:22:42,280
from Team Islam is askonis, don't think tom feed is contradictory.

2759
02:22:44,799 --> 02:22:51,319
Speaker 1: Okay, says Allah made mercy into one hundred parts and

2760
02:22:51,399 --> 02:22:55,239
that he's sent down one part to the earth. How

2761
02:22:55,319 --> 02:22:59,680
does Allah's divine attribute have parts? How did Allah's attribute,

2762
02:23:00,000 --> 02:23:04,200
which divided on created free from limitation enter into creation? Okay.

2763
02:23:04,280 --> 02:23:10,559
David respond to doctor hythem Sidki, where he has shown

2764
02:23:10,879 --> 02:23:15,120
that the Quran MSS exhibit a stemna due to discrepancies

2765
02:23:15,399 --> 02:23:19,840
medine the first four copies these were codified in today's Quran. Also,

2766
02:23:20,000 --> 02:23:25,120
doctor Eleanor cellard that the Sudden MSS was a separate

2767
02:23:25,200 --> 02:23:30,399
accepted codex. Okay, and then Aristotle says, goobl duke, oh, gooblegook.

2768
02:23:30,639 --> 02:23:36,040
This level of handwaving requires tight titanium risks ok gobledygook okay,

2769
02:23:36,079 --> 02:23:38,879
and acy one says, why are you always quoting quote

2770
02:23:38,879 --> 02:23:41,799
mining Justin Martyr from Jehovah's witness and ignoring the rest

2771
02:23:41,840 --> 02:23:44,079
of the rebuttal, lying your balls up. That's from ac

2772
02:23:44,239 --> 02:23:46,360
one okay. And then David says for Muslims, is it

2773
02:23:46,399 --> 02:23:48,440
true that today's Quran is not based on early chronic

2774
02:23:48,479 --> 02:23:50,520
manage scripts, rather on the work of a man named

2775
02:23:52,040 --> 02:23:55,079
El Danny and his medieval Mussulai.

2776
02:23:55,120 --> 02:23:58,760
Speaker 7: You always quote mining Justin Martyr from Johns witness and

2777
02:23:58,879 --> 02:24:02,600
ignoring the rest and the rebuttal. Okay, line your bulls off.

2778
02:24:03,040 --> 02:24:04,600
Speaker 5: Okay, whose voice is that?

2779
02:24:05,120 --> 02:24:08,360
Speaker 1: It's it's a random person to talk, you know, to

2780
02:24:08,399 --> 02:24:13,040
talk to speech that I liked his voice, it says here, okay,

2781
02:24:13,559 --> 02:24:17,319
So this is what doctor Marjin van Putin and others

2782
02:24:17,360 --> 02:24:20,440
have studied. How can that be trusted? So they're saying

2783
02:24:20,600 --> 02:24:23,399
today's Quran is not based on early chronic manuscripts, rather

2784
02:24:23,799 --> 02:24:26,159
on the work of a man named Abu Ama Danny.

2785
02:24:26,239 --> 02:24:27,920
Is that true, guys or you guys want to answer me?

2786
02:24:28,239 --> 02:24:31,440
Speaker 4: That's not true. Doctor Morin is a friend and colleague.

2787
02:24:31,520 --> 02:24:34,399
This is ridiculous. He doesn't accept that whatsoever. In fact,

2788
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:38,159
he actually attests to the fact that is reliable. It's

2789
02:24:38,200 --> 02:24:39,159
in the lifetime of the prophet.

2790
02:24:40,120 --> 02:24:44,120
Speaker 1: Okay, last few here, I can book. The top renowned

2791
02:24:44,280 --> 02:24:48,360
Israelite official scholars and camp leaders for simulcast debates learned

2792
02:24:48,360 --> 02:24:50,760
the proper interpretation of our sacre detection from the descendants

2793
02:24:50,799 --> 02:24:53,680
of the biblical authors. I g okay, he puts ig

2794
02:24:53,959 --> 02:24:57,120
Alsie says, Jesus said love your enemy. But Muhammad dors

2795
02:24:57,200 --> 02:25:01,239
graping slaves and selling them for ransom. He'll Muslim fourteen

2796
02:25:01,280 --> 02:25:04,680
thirty eight google it. And what world would anyone think

2797
02:25:04,719 --> 02:25:09,479
these two prophets come from the same god. Okay, Aristotle online,

2798
02:25:09,479 --> 02:25:12,520
says gobbledy. Okay, all right, we're crought up. So okay, guys,

2799
02:25:12,559 --> 02:25:14,159
I'm gonna go ahead and put ten minutes on the clock.

2800
02:25:15,479 --> 02:25:17,200
Is that okay with you guys? Because I've noticed that

2801
02:25:17,239 --> 02:25:17,840
we won over time.

2802
02:25:17,959 --> 02:25:19,840
Speaker 5: What we're doing now at this final part just to

2803
02:25:19,879 --> 02:25:20,360
get an idea.

2804
02:25:20,600 --> 02:25:22,479
Speaker 1: This is going to be a question answer, open dialogue

2805
02:25:22,479 --> 02:25:23,760
between you guys, and this is going to be on

2806
02:25:23,840 --> 02:25:27,040
the morality of the Quran versus the Bible. I'm plenty

2807
02:25:27,079 --> 02:25:28,600
ten minutes on a clock because I've noticed that we've

2808
02:25:28,719 --> 02:25:30,239
before you do that. Is this the last?

2809
02:25:30,479 --> 02:25:30,799
Speaker 4: This is it?

2810
02:25:30,959 --> 02:25:31,840
Speaker 1: Yeah? This is the last one.

2811
02:25:31,959 --> 02:25:32,159
Speaker 3: Yep.

2812
02:25:32,680 --> 02:25:33,719
Speaker 5: So this last ten minutes.

2813
02:25:33,799 --> 02:25:35,559
Speaker 1: This is the last ten minutes right here. So it's

2814
02:25:35,559 --> 02:25:37,920
gonna be a question answer. I will and guys please

2815
02:25:37,959 --> 02:25:39,639
try to answer each other question. So the way it

2816
02:25:39,719 --> 02:25:42,040
goes is you asked your question, the answer after the

2817
02:25:42,120 --> 02:25:44,000
person that answers it dictates the next question, and who

2818
02:25:44,239 --> 02:25:44,799
goes too fair?

2819
02:25:45,600 --> 02:25:45,719
Speaker 5: Oh?

2820
02:25:45,879 --> 02:25:47,920
Speaker 1: Yes, awesome? Who wants to kick it off first?

2821
02:25:49,319 --> 02:25:49,719
Speaker 2: Awesome?

2822
02:25:50,040 --> 02:25:50,959
Speaker 5: Okay, Jay, go ahead.

2823
02:25:51,920 --> 02:25:55,079
Speaker 2: Well, I heard Sam condemned child marriage and he asked

2824
02:25:55,120 --> 02:25:57,440
me for a quote from Thomas Aquinas. I can read

2825
02:25:57,520 --> 02:26:00,719
the quote if you want, but he does say, huh,

2826
02:26:00,799 --> 02:26:03,600
you want me to read it? Y, yes, okay, I'll

2827
02:26:03,639 --> 02:26:06,239
read it. But my question for Jay he can think

2828
02:26:06,280 --> 02:26:08,920
about it. In the meantime. Sam condemned child marriage. I

2829
02:26:08,959 --> 02:26:12,920
wonder if Jay will also condemn child marriage despite the tradition,

2830
02:26:13,399 --> 02:26:17,680
the church tradition. Here's the quote. Let me just bring

2831
02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:23,639
it here. I'll read the whole thing since quote. Since

2832
02:26:23,760 --> 02:26:26,520
marriage is affected by way of a contract, it comes

2833
02:26:26,600 --> 02:26:30,200
under the ordinance of positive law like other contracts. Consequently,

2834
02:26:30,239 --> 02:26:32,639
according to law, it's determined that marriage may not be

2835
02:26:32,799 --> 02:26:36,120
contracted before the age of discretion. When each party is

2836
02:26:36,200 --> 02:26:40,040
capable of sufficient deliberation about marriage and of mutual fulfillment

2837
02:26:40,120 --> 02:26:44,639
of the marriage debt, and that marriages otherwise contracted are void. Now,

2838
02:26:44,719 --> 02:26:47,440
for the most part, this age is fourteen years old

2839
02:26:47,559 --> 02:26:51,840
for males and twelve year old twelve year old for women.

2840
02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:56,200
But since the ordinance of positive law are consequent upon

2841
02:26:56,280 --> 02:26:59,159
what happens in the majority of cases, if anyone reached

2842
02:26:59,200 --> 02:27:04,840
the require perfection before the aforesaid age, so that nature

2843
02:27:04,840 --> 02:27:08,319
and reason are sufficiently developed to supply the lack of age,

2844
02:27:08,399 --> 02:27:11,879
the marriage is not annulled. Wherefore, if the parties who

2845
02:27:11,959 --> 02:27:17,159
marry before the age of puberty have marital intercourse before

2846
02:27:17,319 --> 02:27:22,959
the aforesaid age of twelve, their marriage is nonetheless perpetually indissoluble.

2847
02:27:24,280 --> 02:27:27,920
End quote. I stopped fining. So my question now there, Jay,

2848
02:27:28,120 --> 02:27:29,760
is does he condemn child marriage?

2849
02:27:29,959 --> 02:27:31,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I stopped the clock. We can start the clock

2850
02:27:31,879 --> 02:27:33,719
back up again, because you're reading something lengthy and any

2851
02:27:33,760 --> 02:27:34,719
one time you can get eaten by that.

2852
02:27:34,760 --> 02:27:39,000
Speaker 3: Go ahead, Jay, Sorry, so there's ambiguity about quote child.

2853
02:27:39,159 --> 02:27:41,280
I'm not a Catholic, so again, I don't care what

2854
02:27:41,360 --> 02:27:43,680
Thomas Aquinas says. He's not part of my tradition. And

2855
02:27:43,799 --> 02:27:46,959
even Thomas Aquinas's positions on many things are not part

2856
02:27:47,000 --> 02:27:50,559
of the overall Roman Catholic position. Roman Catholic canon law

2857
02:27:50,639 --> 02:27:53,719
in ten eighty three says again that the age is

2858
02:27:54,000 --> 02:27:57,319
sixteen for a guy, fourteen for a girl. Orthodox canon

2859
02:27:57,399 --> 02:27:59,840
law is different. In Greece. For example, the age of

2860
02:28:00,440 --> 02:28:01,440
question for Team.

2861
02:28:01,399 --> 02:28:06,840
Speaker 8: Islam is the Q created created answer without communising shirt

2862
02:28:07,360 --> 02:28:13,079
violating tar feet or violating Tanzy or making the Koran unknowable. Sorry, buddy,

2863
02:28:13,079 --> 02:28:15,879
if you think this question is irrelevant, you have no

2864
02:28:16,040 --> 02:28:17,799
grounds to criticize the Trinity.

2865
02:28:18,319 --> 02:28:21,040
Speaker 1: We'll have a well, well, we'll address that after the fact.

2866
02:28:21,760 --> 02:28:23,920
We'll put that back on the clock and continue.

2867
02:28:23,959 --> 02:28:24,399
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

2868
02:28:24,719 --> 02:28:27,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Orthodox canon law is there's not a one

2869
02:28:27,360 --> 02:28:30,479
size fits all in the sense of being identical to

2870
02:28:30,559 --> 02:28:34,040
like Roman Catholic ideas. So for example, in Greece, the

2871
02:28:34,159 --> 02:28:37,159
parents can be involved and it's under eighteen. If the

2872
02:28:37,239 --> 02:28:39,760
parents agree, it could be it can be fifteen. So

2873
02:28:40,000 --> 02:28:42,399
it's we don't have one size fits all, but for

2874
02:28:42,639 --> 02:28:47,200
us adult or it's not a child marriage because again,

2875
02:28:47,280 --> 02:28:49,719
as Sam was pointing out, the assumption would be either

2876
02:28:49,760 --> 02:28:50,639
their past puberty.

2877
02:28:51,959 --> 02:28:55,399
Speaker 1: All right, Jake, now you question is to you go

2878
02:28:55,440 --> 02:28:58,000
ahead and toss it to anyone from the Teamazon.

2879
02:29:00,920 --> 02:29:03,520
Speaker 3: In terms of morality. What is the purpose of the

2880
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:09,520
rituals in the various postures or cleansings that you might

2881
02:29:09,639 --> 02:29:12,639
do in your religion. If they come out of a

2882
02:29:12,719 --> 02:29:16,159
tradition that has a specific purpose for them, that now

2883
02:29:16,239 --> 02:29:20,120
your religion divorces it from that from that tradition. I'm

2884
02:29:20,159 --> 02:29:22,040
curious what the purpose of those rituals are. Is it

2885
02:29:22,159 --> 02:29:23,360
just because you're told to do.

2886
02:29:23,399 --> 02:29:27,680
Speaker 2: It, Well, that's your assumption that it's coming from the

2887
02:29:27,799 --> 02:29:31,959
Bible or the Christian tradition or a Jewish tradition. That's

2888
02:29:32,040 --> 02:29:35,680
your assumption that we don't share. The ritual purity is

2889
02:29:36,440 --> 02:29:39,440
part of it is what God has commanded and it's

2890
02:29:39,440 --> 02:29:43,280
supposed to be Cleanliness will bring you closer to God.

2891
02:29:43,520 --> 02:29:47,520
Cleanliness is from godliness. This is a principle within Islam.

2892
02:29:48,280 --> 02:29:51,760
So ritual purity before prayer, like will do or making

2893
02:29:51,799 --> 02:29:57,319
a hustle, after certain actions like intercourse, you have to

2894
02:29:57,479 --> 02:30:01,319
do a ritual wash. These are commands of God. And

2895
02:30:01,520 --> 02:30:05,200
it's understood that water has been created as something to purify,

2896
02:30:06,440 --> 02:30:11,159
but it's not something where Yeah, you'll find other prophets

2897
02:30:11,479 --> 02:30:16,239
in the Bible talking about ritual purity. We acknowledge that

2898
02:30:16,479 --> 02:30:20,360
these religions were originally from God. So you do find

2899
02:30:20,440 --> 02:30:26,000
ritual purity in the Bible or in Christianity, but that

2900
02:30:26,079 --> 02:30:31,079
doesn't mean that Islam copied these traditions. The source is

2901
02:30:31,200 --> 02:30:34,840
the same, it's coming from the same God. So I

2902
02:30:34,920 --> 02:30:37,799
don't see how this is some kind of interrogation of

2903
02:30:38,040 --> 02:30:39,040
Islamic morality.

2904
02:30:39,319 --> 02:30:41,479
Speaker 3: If it's from the same God, then it's continuity.

2905
02:30:42,840 --> 02:30:46,360
Speaker 2: No, there's no no continuity. How is that good from

2906
02:30:46,399 --> 02:30:48,760
the same God. You just said that it's the same source.

2907
02:30:48,840 --> 02:30:49,959
Where did I say continuity?

2908
02:30:50,479 --> 02:30:53,319
Speaker 3: Well, if the relief, the rituals came to our religion

2909
02:30:53,360 --> 02:30:55,479
from the same God to yours, continuity.

2910
02:30:55,680 --> 02:30:59,920
Speaker 2: No God can change God. God can have a ritual

2911
02:31:00,200 --> 02:31:05,200
for specific race, like in Judaism. You can burn calves,

2912
02:31:05,319 --> 02:31:10,000
you can burn certain livestock as a form of ritual practice.

2913
02:31:10,479 --> 02:31:14,440
That doesn't mean God has required that for Christians or Muslims.

2914
02:31:14,719 --> 02:31:17,440
It's still the same God. But there isn't continuity, there's

2915
02:31:17,440 --> 02:31:20,920
not particular practice. Yeah, there's not continuity because I said

2916
02:31:20,959 --> 02:31:23,319
that it's coming from the same source. You're claiming that

2917
02:31:23,399 --> 02:31:24,840
there's continuity.

2918
02:31:24,920 --> 02:31:26,719
Speaker 3: But didn't you argue for continuity and our debate.

2919
02:31:27,959 --> 02:31:30,079
Speaker 2: No, you didn't understand what I argued for an art debate.

2920
02:31:30,120 --> 02:31:31,239
Speaker 3: Well, you argue for continuity.

2921
02:31:32,559 --> 02:31:35,920
Speaker 2: You didn't understand that debate. I don't know why you're

2922
02:31:35,920 --> 02:31:37,840
bringing it up. I don't know why you're bringing it

2923
02:31:37,959 --> 02:31:40,559
up in this debate. You're still living I'm living in,

2924
02:31:42,959 --> 02:31:45,799
living in your head, living in your head, rent free.

2925
02:31:46,120 --> 02:31:48,360
I'm living in your head, rent free. You're still debating

2926
02:31:48,479 --> 02:31:52,479
like a previous debate. We're talking about we're talking about

2927
02:31:52,559 --> 02:31:55,440
child marriage. We're talking about child marriage. And you can't

2928
02:31:55,479 --> 02:31:59,600
even give a condemnation. Neither you, neither you or Sam

2929
02:31:59,639 --> 02:32:02,920
can say Thomas Aquinas. Neither you or or Sam can

2930
02:32:02,959 --> 02:32:06,000
say that Thomas Aquinas, our pedophile is a pedophile.

2931
02:32:06,000 --> 02:32:08,479
Speaker 3: I don't follow Thomas Aquinas. You're bringing irrellab Why can't

2932
02:32:08,479 --> 02:32:09,079
you condemn him?

2933
02:32:09,159 --> 02:32:12,239
Speaker 2: Why can't you condemn him Aquinas? Yeah, why can't you?

2934
02:32:12,719 --> 02:32:13,440
Speaker 3: I don't have a problem.

2935
02:32:14,399 --> 02:32:17,239
Speaker 2: Can you condemn him? Say he's a pedoph? Here, he's

2936
02:32:17,239 --> 02:32:18,920
a pedophile, Then he's a pedophile?

2937
02:32:19,040 --> 02:32:21,159
Speaker 5: Correct that what pedophy? Did he sleep with a girl

2938
02:32:21,200 --> 02:32:21,840
like your prophet did?

2939
02:32:22,280 --> 02:32:24,120
Speaker 2: He said it's fine too, he said, he said that's

2940
02:32:24,159 --> 02:32:25,280
fine for twelve years older.

2941
02:32:25,319 --> 02:32:25,440
Speaker 4: Young.

2942
02:32:25,600 --> 02:32:27,520
Speaker 5: I read the quote, Sam, I read the quote and

2943
02:32:27,600 --> 02:32:28,639
he's dressing a leak.

2944
02:32:28,719 --> 02:32:32,360
Speaker 2: I read the quote child he says you can have

2945
02:32:32,559 --> 02:32:36,559
intercourse with under twelve. The intercourse is that a pedophilia?

2946
02:32:37,639 --> 02:32:38,799
Speaker 1: It's your question.

2947
02:32:38,840 --> 02:32:39,920
Speaker 2: I read the entire pace.

2948
02:32:40,079 --> 02:32:42,360
Speaker 1: You want to turn it to it's it's your question, Dan,

2949
02:32:42,440 --> 02:32:44,239
it's your's your turn asked a question, unless you want

2950
02:32:44,239 --> 02:32:45,399
to turn it to Sam, and you can ask you

2951
02:32:45,479 --> 02:32:45,959
guys something.

2952
02:32:46,760 --> 02:32:49,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my question is that we didn't just talk

2953
02:32:49,159 --> 02:32:52,719
about child marriage. We talked about punishment for blasphemy, punishment

2954
02:32:52,840 --> 02:32:59,000
for adultery, execution, punishment for homosexuality. Do you condemn all

2955
02:32:59,079 --> 02:33:01,360
of these things and the Old Testament? Do you think

2956
02:33:01,479 --> 02:33:04,200
that these are wrong things? When I read the quotes,

2957
02:33:04,600 --> 02:33:07,520
the Bible is saying that you execute one who blasphemes.

2958
02:33:07,600 --> 02:33:09,840
Do you condemn that or do you think that that's

2959
02:33:10,360 --> 02:33:13,520
the morality. You might think that it's not applicable today, fine,

2960
02:33:13,879 --> 02:33:16,639
but Jesus is still commanding that for that time, for

2961
02:33:16,719 --> 02:33:19,559
a previous time. So do you think that is morally justified?

2962
02:33:19,559 --> 02:33:21,200
Speaker 1: All right, that's Sam, Now.

2963
02:33:21,239 --> 02:33:21,680
Speaker 5: Let me answer.

2964
02:33:21,799 --> 02:33:21,959
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2965
02:33:22,040 --> 02:33:26,120
Speaker 5: Now, let me give you a thori answeren Let's see

2966
02:33:26,120 --> 02:33:28,520
if you're going to get it. If you read these

2967
02:33:28,639 --> 02:33:32,040
laws in the context from which you're quoting. Unlike your prophet,

2968
02:33:32,440 --> 02:33:34,799
who didn't give any sign that his God was backing

2969
02:33:34,840 --> 02:33:37,600
him up, why don't you read these statements in context.

2970
02:33:37,799 --> 02:33:40,920
In the context, you're a law who you admitted Jesus.

2971
02:33:41,239 --> 02:33:43,120
According to cron that was a law which you just

2972
02:33:43,159 --> 02:33:45,719
admitted Jesus. So Jesus, as Mohammed z Allah is God.

2973
02:33:46,440 --> 02:33:50,239
In the context of those passages, God appears to the

2974
02:33:50,360 --> 02:33:53,440
nation visibly in a pillar of cloud by day and

2975
02:33:53,559 --> 02:33:56,760
a pillar of fire by night, not only in front

2976
02:33:56,760 --> 02:33:59,920
of the Israelites, but he also appears to the Egyptians,

2977
02:34:00,399 --> 02:34:03,959
leaving them with no excuse to defy his commands. In

2978
02:34:04,079 --> 02:34:07,559
other words, unlike your Ellah, the God of the Bible

2979
02:34:07,760 --> 02:34:10,399
prove his existence. The God of the Bible set up

2980
02:34:10,440 --> 02:34:13,600
a theocracy honor. The God of the Bible gave them

2981
02:34:13,680 --> 02:34:17,360
ample proof not to doubt his existence, so that when

2982
02:34:17,440 --> 02:34:20,079
they see him in the pillar of pillar fire by night,

2983
02:34:20,239 --> 02:34:22,879
hear his voice audibly and see the signs, so that

2984
02:34:22,959 --> 02:34:26,520
even the Egyptians saw the pillar of cloud Exodus fourteen

2985
02:34:27,000 --> 02:34:30,079
nineteen to thirty one, as well as Joshua two eight

2986
02:34:30,120 --> 02:34:33,399
to eleven. He gave the nations no excuse for defying him.

2987
02:34:33,680 --> 02:34:36,399
So when God shows up, then he has every right

2988
02:34:36,600 --> 02:34:38,600
to tell you how to live, and if you defy him,

2989
02:34:38,600 --> 02:34:40,879
he has every right to take away your life because

2990
02:34:40,920 --> 02:34:44,479
he's the God over death and life. This is unlike

2991
02:34:44,559 --> 02:34:48,879
your prophet, who could not provide any proof that God

2992
02:34:49,040 --> 02:34:52,040
was speaking through him, who couldnot provide that his God

2993
02:34:52,120 --> 02:34:55,479
even exists. All he did was he borrowed the collateral

2994
02:34:55,680 --> 02:34:58,719
of the Jews and Christians, claimed to be a prophet

2995
02:34:58,879 --> 02:35:02,040
like the prophet's in the Jewish Christian tradition, but when

2996
02:35:02,079 --> 02:35:06,319
he's challenged to prove that God sent him, failed miserably.

2997
02:35:06,760 --> 02:35:09,559
So you're comparing apples and pineapples. So if God shows

2998
02:35:09,680 --> 02:35:12,040
up and I see and I know that he exists,

2999
02:35:12,200 --> 02:35:13,959
he has every right to tell me what to do

3000
02:35:14,079 --> 02:35:16,840
and every right to inflict any punishment he deems fit,

3001
02:35:17,239 --> 02:35:18,799
unlike your elaw who doesn't exist.

3002
02:35:19,559 --> 02:35:21,440
Speaker 1: All right, Tim, you're going to turn it back to

3003
02:35:21,520 --> 02:35:23,879
them with a question or a team Christianity? Did you

3004
02:35:23,920 --> 02:35:25,680
turn you answered the question? Out's back to you, guys.

3005
02:35:25,719 --> 02:35:26,879
You got two minutes leven o'clock.

3006
02:35:27,399 --> 02:35:28,520
Speaker 5: Now, Jay, do you want to ask you let me

3007
02:35:28,600 --> 02:35:28,840
to ask?

3008
02:35:29,559 --> 02:35:31,600
Speaker 3: Oh, well, I want to address first of all, I'll

3009
02:35:31,639 --> 02:35:33,159
let you ask the question, but I want to reply

3010
02:35:33,280 --> 02:35:36,159
since we have two minutes that you'll notice that when

3011
02:35:36,159 --> 02:35:38,440
I brought up the line of argumentation that Daniel had

3012
02:35:38,479 --> 02:35:40,319
in our debate, he didn't want to go there. He

3013
02:35:40,399 --> 02:35:43,600
immediately said that I was that he was living rent

3014
02:35:43,639 --> 02:35:46,040
free in my head, in other words, deflecting away from

3015
02:35:46,079 --> 02:35:48,079
the fact that I've called him out on an inconsistency

3016
02:35:48,159 --> 02:35:50,920
because in that debate he was arguing for Islam having

3017
02:35:51,000 --> 02:35:53,520
more continuity with the laws of the Old Testament. That

3018
02:35:53,639 --> 02:35:56,360
doesn't suit his purpose here, and so he doesn't want

3019
02:35:56,399 --> 02:35:58,120
to go to that and he has to deflect the way, Oh,

3020
02:35:58,719 --> 02:36:01,360
I live in your head rent free. No, that's because

3021
02:36:01,360 --> 02:36:03,399
I just caught you in a double standard. You're using

3022
02:36:03,479 --> 02:36:07,239
two different standards as usual. So Sam, I'll vote to

3023
02:36:07,239 --> 02:36:10,079
you how many seconds we have to for this minute

3024
02:36:10,079 --> 02:36:10,360
and a half.

3025
02:36:10,399 --> 02:36:12,680
Speaker 1: Have you got a question or something that you want

3026
02:36:12,680 --> 02:36:13,079
to ask the team?

3027
02:36:13,239 --> 02:36:15,319
Speaker 5: Well, I got a question. I'm sorry. Okay, ask these

3028
02:36:15,319 --> 02:36:17,799
guys a question because they have the final right they're

3029
02:36:17,840 --> 02:36:18,280
going to answer.

3030
02:36:18,280 --> 02:36:20,600
Speaker 3: This is the final one, right, yep, okay, okay.

3031
02:36:20,639 --> 02:36:22,680
Speaker 5: Now I want you guys to show me anywhere in

3032
02:36:22,760 --> 02:36:27,200
your Koran explicit not inference anywhere in your Koran explicit

3033
02:36:27,840 --> 02:36:30,799
where it says do not kill women and children. In

3034
02:36:30,920 --> 02:36:33,479
light of all the verses such as the ones I

3035
02:36:33,600 --> 02:36:38,799
mentioned where your God rainstones on Sodom Gomora indiscriminately killing

3036
02:36:38,920 --> 02:36:42,159
children and women in cattle, as well as flooding the

3037
02:36:42,200 --> 02:36:45,360
people of Noah, including women, children, and cattle. Can you

3038
02:36:45,479 --> 02:36:48,200
show me a single verse in the Koran where when

3039
02:36:48,559 --> 02:36:50,959
he orders your prophet to go and performs jihat, not

3040
02:36:51,040 --> 02:36:52,920
to kill women and children when his pattern is he

3041
02:36:52,959 --> 02:36:53,760
destroys everything.

3042
02:36:54,520 --> 02:36:56,840
Speaker 1: All right, no team is leam, go ahead and we'll

3043
02:36:56,879 --> 02:36:58,440
put the clock back on. Just sweak and answer.

3044
02:36:58,440 --> 02:37:01,440
Speaker 2: So, first of all, we don't just go by the Koran.

3045
02:37:01,559 --> 02:37:03,639
We also go by the example of the Prophita be

3046
02:37:03,719 --> 02:37:05,639
upon him. This is the Koran and Sunna. So there

3047
02:37:05,680 --> 02:37:08,520
are explicit hadith that say do not kill women and

3048
02:37:08,639 --> 02:37:10,559
children and the elderly. And we see this in the

3049
02:37:10,600 --> 02:37:13,000
example of the Seller as well. You just go ahead

3050
02:37:13,040 --> 02:37:14,959
and read the hadith for them.

3051
02:37:15,760 --> 02:37:17,959
Speaker 4: Yes, it's pretty simple. The first d is a woman

3052
02:37:18,120 --> 02:37:20,319
was found killed in one of these battles. So the

3053
02:37:20,399 --> 02:37:24,239
messenger of God Sola I forbade the killing of women

3054
02:37:24,360 --> 02:37:28,559
and children, Sahi Muslim and Kitabo Ji had the first halifa.

3055
02:37:28,760 --> 02:37:32,239
Rebecca da Huan gave the following command to his arms.

3056
02:37:32,479 --> 02:37:35,000
So this is other than the prophet, but his followers,

3057
02:37:35,040 --> 02:37:38,520
immediate followers. Do not kill a woman or children, one

3058
02:37:38,680 --> 02:37:42,200
aged infirm person. Do not cut down fruit bearing trees.

3059
02:37:42,399 --> 02:37:45,000
Do not destroy in habits a place. Do not slaughter

3060
02:37:45,159 --> 02:37:47,799
sheep or camels except for food. Do not burn bees

3061
02:37:47,840 --> 02:37:50,200
and do not scatter them. Do not steal from the booty,

3062
02:37:50,280 --> 02:37:52,079
and do not be cowardly. That would be tough. I

3063
02:37:52,120 --> 02:37:55,479
guess you for some Just to be clear here, just

3064
02:37:55,760 --> 02:37:59,639
so we establish this. When you claim that Koran approved

3065
02:37:59,799 --> 02:38:02,879
re this was your claim, and you claimed that the

3066
02:38:02,959 --> 02:38:07,520
Koran approved genocide when you spoke of soul, Why does

3067
02:38:07,559 --> 02:38:10,120
the Kuran do that? Never does that once? And the

3068
02:38:10,200 --> 02:38:12,680
Klan actually says in the same chapter I'm asking the

3069
02:38:12,799 --> 02:38:15,600
question only in a statement. The Klan actually says in

3070
02:38:15,680 --> 02:38:18,879
that chapter, do not transgress beyond the limits which on

3071
02:38:19,040 --> 02:38:21,520
law has established. Are we more what those limits are

3072
02:38:21,559 --> 02:38:23,079
based on the durations we just read.

3073
02:38:23,600 --> 02:38:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

3074
02:38:23,840 --> 02:38:27,399
Speaker 2: Also to answer what Sam said that, oh, there's a

3075
02:38:27,520 --> 02:38:30,360
pillar of cloud that the Israelites saw, so therefore you

3076
02:38:30,399 --> 02:38:34,360
can kill homosexuals. He's ignorant of Mosaic law because the

3077
02:38:34,479 --> 02:38:37,639
Jews who lived after the time of Cyani, they were

3078
02:38:37,719 --> 02:38:40,559
still bound by the Old Testament law. They were still

3079
02:38:40,639 --> 02:38:43,959
bound by the Mosaic law. They were still killing the blasphemers,

3080
02:38:44,079 --> 02:38:49,079
killing the sorcerers, killing the adulters, executing them, executing anyone

3081
02:38:49,159 --> 02:38:52,680
who tempted you to worship idols. You have to execute them.

3082
02:38:52,719 --> 02:38:56,280
That's what Jesus says. Those Jews didn't see pillars of

3083
02:38:56,399 --> 02:38:58,879
clouds and they didn't see any miracles. They were living

3084
02:38:58,920 --> 02:39:02,920
after the time of Sina. So your biblical all or

3085
02:39:03,000 --> 02:39:06,959
your exegesis is completely off base. And also Jay is

3086
02:39:07,159 --> 02:39:12,079
misrepresenting the Catholic Church. He's misrepresenting Canon law. I'll read

3087
02:39:12,200 --> 02:39:14,840
more quotes for you. In the twelfth century Canon law,

3088
02:39:14,959 --> 02:39:18,399
jurist gration stated that consent for marriage could not take

3089
02:39:18,440 --> 02:39:21,319
place before the age of twelve old, twelve years old

3090
02:39:21,360 --> 02:39:24,799
for female than fourteen years old for males. Also, consent

3091
02:39:24,959 --> 02:39:27,600
and betrothal could not take place before the age of

3092
02:39:27,719 --> 02:39:30,639
seven year old from females and males, as that is

3093
02:39:30,719 --> 02:39:33,639
the age of reason. So it's actually seven years old

3094
02:39:33,719 --> 02:39:36,719
and twelve years old. The Church of England after breaking

3095
02:39:36,760 --> 02:39:39,120
away from the Roman Catholic Church, carried with it the

3096
02:39:39,280 --> 02:39:42,639
same minimum age requirements age of consent for marriage of

3097
02:39:42,719 --> 02:39:45,879
twelve years old for girls and fourteen year old for

3098
02:39:46,079 --> 02:39:49,680
boys is written into English law and then the Catholic Church.

3099
02:39:49,799 --> 02:39:53,760
Before the nineteen seventeen Code of Canon Law, the minimum

3100
02:39:53,840 --> 02:39:58,200
age for a dissoluble betrothal was seven years seven years

3101
02:39:58,440 --> 02:40:01,760
in the contractees, minimal age for a valid marriage was

3102
02:40:01,840 --> 02:40:05,680
puberty or nominally fourteen years for males and twelve years

3103
02:40:05,719 --> 02:40:10,600
old for females. This is the nineteen seventeen Code of

3104
02:40:10,719 --> 02:40:14,120
the Church, so this is something that was up until

3105
02:40:14,239 --> 02:40:18,280
very recently. The Catholic doctrine. I reference Thomas Aquinas, I

3106
02:40:18,440 --> 02:40:22,159
reference Gration. Sam is a heretic. He's throwing all of

3107
02:40:22,239 --> 02:40:26,520
the Catholic Church bus. He's throwing Canon law under the bus.

3108
02:40:26,639 --> 02:40:29,399
And Jay refuses to say that these are all pedophiles.

3109
02:40:29,639 --> 02:40:33,479
Jay refuses to condemn Thomas Aquinas as a pedophile. That's shocking.

3110
02:40:33,520 --> 02:40:36,680
I hope all the Christian listeners, especially the Protestants listening,

3111
02:40:37,040 --> 02:40:40,200
note that these heretics, Sam and Jay are down with

3112
02:40:40,280 --> 02:40:41,879
pedophilia all right.

3113
02:40:44,239 --> 02:40:46,639
Speaker 3: So I explicitly said I don't have a problem condemning you, Aquinas,

3114
02:40:46,680 --> 02:40:48,079
so you just BLUETI.

3115
02:40:47,840 --> 02:40:49,159
Speaker 2: As a pedophile. As a pedophile?

3116
02:40:49,200 --> 02:40:51,159
Speaker 1: Answer, Yeah, do we answer?

3117
02:40:51,239 --> 02:40:52,200
Speaker 2: Do we ask a question? Now?

3118
02:40:52,840 --> 02:40:56,159
Speaker 1: Well, he asked you guys a question. You guys gave

3119
02:40:56,200 --> 02:40:57,159
a very lengthy answer.

3120
02:40:58,200 --> 02:40:58,719
Speaker 4: So it is.

3121
02:40:59,280 --> 02:41:01,559
Speaker 1: It is on team Christianity here. I'll let them he

3122
02:41:01,680 --> 02:41:03,159
the last time because we're way over time here, and

3123
02:41:03,239 --> 02:41:04,040
I know you have.

3124
02:41:04,079 --> 02:41:05,760
Speaker 5: To because of the time.

3125
02:41:05,879 --> 02:41:08,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll let you guys, Daniel better.

3126
02:41:08,600 --> 02:41:10,680
Speaker 5: I know you're going to embarrass yourself. You just destroyed

3127
02:41:10,680 --> 02:41:12,959
your prophet again because if you read the Old Testament,

3128
02:41:13,120 --> 02:41:15,719
God didn't stop at Sennai. And you're concusing me and

3129
02:41:15,760 --> 02:41:17,280
not reading the Bible. I think you want to be

3130
02:41:17,319 --> 02:41:20,000
an Umi like your prophet. Continue reading the rest of

3131
02:41:20,000 --> 02:41:23,479
the Old Testament. God kept sending prophets with miracles and

3132
02:41:23,600 --> 02:41:28,399
signs to keep ratifying and confirming his existence and that

3133
02:41:28,559 --> 02:41:30,000
this is his law and he has a right to

3134
02:41:30,079 --> 02:41:32,440
put to death whenever he wants. Because in one King's

3135
02:41:32,479 --> 02:41:36,239
eighteen Elijah had a show down with your spiritual ancestors

3136
02:41:36,280 --> 02:41:39,000
because your God will love the chron is bail and

3137
02:41:39,159 --> 02:41:41,840
there God showed up miraculously that your God is fake

3138
02:41:42,000 --> 02:41:45,559
and Yahweh is true. So no, I am consistent with

3139
02:41:45,600 --> 02:41:49,399
the Old Testament narrative. All throughout God shows up miraculously

3140
02:41:49,559 --> 02:41:52,559
through prophets to confirm I am God. This is my convenant.

3141
02:41:52,600 --> 02:41:54,000
I have a right to do with you as I

3142
02:41:54,079 --> 02:41:57,360
see fit. Nothing for your prophet, the prophet of bail,

3143
02:41:57,879 --> 02:41:59,879
because your God is a fake God, and the God

3144
02:42:00,000 --> 02:42:02,280
revealed in Jesus is the true God. End up story,

3145
02:42:02,719 --> 02:42:04,040
Bye bye, you lost.

3146
02:42:05,399 --> 02:42:08,559
Speaker 2: You saw you saw a miracle, therefore kill the adulter. Oh,

3147
02:42:08,639 --> 02:42:11,040
you saw a miracle, therefore kill the homos. Yeah, that's

3148
02:42:11,079 --> 02:42:13,399
that makes sense. That's real, great morality there.

3149
02:42:14,360 --> 02:42:16,280
Speaker 1: I got two questions for the Muslims here, I think

3150
02:42:16,319 --> 02:42:19,000
from the supporters here real quick, and then we'll close

3151
02:42:19,040 --> 02:42:20,239
this thing out. But then you guy, you guys, that

3152
02:42:20,360 --> 02:42:24,200
was a fantastic debate. By the way, I was taking

3153
02:42:24,200 --> 02:42:26,000
a whole bunch of notes. I learned a bunch of myself.

3154
02:42:27,120 --> 02:42:29,719
I was learning a bunch because I'm not the most

3155
02:42:29,719 --> 02:42:31,719
religious guy. So it was great to see both perspectives here.

3156
02:42:32,920 --> 02:42:37,319
Razor Sharp one thirty five says, uh, it's a tts okay.

3157
02:42:37,360 --> 02:42:38,479
I just came in all right, So we'll let this

3158
02:42:38,559 --> 02:42:39,959
play it's actually talk to speech here.

3159
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:44,079
Speaker 7: It's Sam's just curious here, how is sin defined in

3160
02:42:44,280 --> 02:42:45,719
Islam and in Christianity?

3161
02:42:46,799 --> 02:42:47,680
Speaker 3: To say it this way?

3162
02:42:48,040 --> 02:42:50,959
Speaker 7: Well, she is sin in Islam and in Christianity.

3163
02:42:51,079 --> 02:42:53,239
Speaker 1: All right, so I'll let each team just give their

3164
02:42:53,440 --> 02:42:54,399
quick definition of it.

3165
02:42:55,639 --> 02:42:57,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, you want to answer, Jay or.

3166
02:42:59,159 --> 02:43:01,040
Speaker 3: We would just say that any sin is just simply

3167
02:43:01,120 --> 02:43:03,760
a moral move of the will against the good, away

3168
02:43:03,760 --> 02:43:05,280
from the good against goslaw. That's it.

3169
02:43:05,719 --> 02:43:10,040
Speaker 1: Ain't that for Islam? Or do you guys agree with

3170
02:43:10,120 --> 02:43:10,799
that definition?

3171
02:43:11,840 --> 02:43:14,360
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean that's a similar definition like God sends

3172
02:43:14,440 --> 02:43:17,159
a law and then if you disobey it, it doesn't matter.

3173
02:43:17,319 --> 02:43:19,200
You have to see a miracle to obey the law.

3174
02:43:19,319 --> 02:43:21,360
Like God sends the law. If you disobey it, then

3175
02:43:21,440 --> 02:43:24,719
that's a sin, and then you can ask for forgiveness

3176
02:43:24,799 --> 02:43:26,159
and God will forgive your sins.

3177
02:43:26,559 --> 02:43:30,040
Speaker 1: All right? What else do we got here? Danny Danis says,

3178
02:43:30,319 --> 02:43:34,000
is it soon not to get ridden by naked dark

3179
02:43:34,159 --> 02:43:37,760
gin like Mohammad did? Question for Jiz and Homo and

3180
02:43:37,920 --> 02:43:38,399
Daniel the.

3181
02:43:39,159 --> 02:43:40,239
Speaker 3: Rough all right?

3182
02:43:40,719 --> 02:43:42,920
Speaker 2: Raging, Yeah they're raging. Yeah, I think I got under

3183
02:43:42,959 --> 02:43:43,319
their skin.

3184
02:43:43,639 --> 02:43:47,159
Speaker 1: Islam only says forty two eleven in the Quran makes

3185
02:43:47,200 --> 02:43:49,479
it pretty clear that a lot having body parts is

3186
02:43:49,559 --> 02:43:53,920
to be taken figuratively. Okay, this thing is like split

3187
02:43:54,000 --> 02:43:56,559
down the middle with people that support you know I

3188
02:43:56,799 --> 02:44:01,280
both either or the religious aristotles. Question for our Team Islam,

3189
02:44:01,360 --> 02:44:05,040
is the crowd created or uncreated? Answer without committing shirk,

3190
02:44:05,600 --> 02:44:09,000
violating that weed, or violenting ten Zi, or making the

3191
02:44:09,120 --> 02:44:12,280
crowd unknowable. If you think this question is irrelevant, you

3192
02:44:12,399 --> 02:44:14,040
have no grounds to criticize the Trinity.

3193
02:44:15,200 --> 02:44:16,520
Speaker 4: The Koranas uncreated?

3194
02:44:16,680 --> 02:44:17,719
Speaker 1: We don't question for.

3195
02:44:17,840 --> 02:44:22,559
Speaker 7: Team Islam, is the Quran created or uncreated? Answer without

3196
02:44:22,639 --> 02:44:27,920
commuting shirk, violating tar feed, or violating Tanzi, or making

3197
02:44:27,959 --> 02:44:31,680
the Quran unknowable. If you think this question is irrelevant,

3198
02:44:32,120 --> 02:44:34,520
you have no grounds to criticize the Trinity.

3199
02:44:35,319 --> 02:44:38,319
Speaker 1: Well you were answering her. Sorry, go ahead, brother.

3200
02:44:42,399 --> 02:44:44,399
Speaker 4: The Korana is uncreated. We don't dispute this.

3201
02:44:44,559 --> 02:44:46,479
Speaker 5: We don't doubt claim.

3202
02:44:47,120 --> 02:44:50,799
Speaker 2: The claim was that the Trinity is incoherent because there

3203
02:44:50,840 --> 02:44:53,840
are multiple minds. That was our critique. That's why this

3204
02:44:54,079 --> 02:44:57,280
is either polytheism or it's incoherent. The Quran isn't created,

3205
02:44:57,319 --> 02:45:00,239
but it doesn't The Quran doesn't have a mind. Is

3206
02:45:00,280 --> 02:45:02,680
not a person. No one has claimed this, but people

3207
02:45:02,760 --> 02:45:06,440
do claim. Christian theologians do claim that Jesus has a mind.

3208
02:45:06,520 --> 02:45:09,360
Isn't the same mind as the fathers and the Holy spirits.

3209
02:45:09,399 --> 02:45:12,159
There's a debate. There's not no clarity in the Christian

3210
02:45:12,239 --> 02:45:15,360
tradition because it's a contradiction, that's why. But we don't

3211
02:45:15,399 --> 02:45:18,680
have the same problem in Islam. The Quran doesn't have

3212
02:45:18,760 --> 02:45:21,159
a mind. So how does it contradict monotheism?

3213
02:45:21,360 --> 02:45:22,280
Speaker 3: No one could that.

3214
02:45:22,639 --> 02:45:25,000
Speaker 2: No one could explain that. No one could explain that.

3215
02:45:26,520 --> 02:45:28,959
Speaker 3: Because there's a debate, it's not clear. Would that mean

3216
02:45:29,040 --> 02:45:30,840
that because there's a debate in as long amongst all

3217
02:45:30,840 --> 02:45:32,559
the schools, none of it's clear. About the attributes.

3218
02:45:32,799 --> 02:45:38,360
Speaker 2: No one debates about Islam having multiple gods having attributes,

3219
02:45:39,079 --> 02:45:42,520
that I have multiple attributes. That doesn't mean I'm multiple people.

3220
02:45:42,440 --> 02:45:43,680
Speaker 3: Like is how is that?

3221
02:45:45,360 --> 02:45:46,639
Speaker 2: How does that contradict?

3222
02:45:46,760 --> 02:45:47,000
Speaker 1: Debate?

3223
02:45:48,040 --> 02:45:48,479
Speaker 2: Explain?

3224
02:45:48,920 --> 02:45:50,760
Speaker 3: You know, de blame, you know your debates.

3225
02:45:51,600 --> 02:45:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that there are debates that there are

3226
02:45:53,479 --> 02:45:57,399
no debates in Islam. There are debates in this theology exactly.

3227
02:45:57,520 --> 02:45:59,399
So that was a bad argument. No, No, But there's

3228
02:45:59,479 --> 02:46:02,920
debate in Christianity about the nature of God. There isn't

3229
02:46:02,959 --> 02:46:05,920
that same debate about there's being three and one? What

3230
02:46:06,079 --> 02:46:09,159
is the difference between the Father and do they have

3231
02:46:09,319 --> 02:46:11,760
the same knowledge? Do they have the same will? Do

3232
02:46:11,879 --> 02:46:13,840
they have the same knowledge? Do they have the same will?

3233
02:46:13,920 --> 02:46:16,760
We don't have the same debate, Branson, We don't have

3234
02:46:16,920 --> 02:46:18,920
that same debate in Islam at that.

3235
02:46:21,920 --> 02:46:23,959
Speaker 3: If there's debate that's not clear, that's a fallacy. You're

3236
02:46:23,959 --> 02:46:24,840
a fallacy machine.

3237
02:46:25,360 --> 02:46:28,000
Speaker 2: No, that's not what I said. Actually, so you don't

3238
02:46:28,000 --> 02:46:29,399
follow the argument, that's the problem.

3239
02:46:29,639 --> 02:46:32,079
Speaker 1: All right, I'll fly through these real quick and close out.

3240
02:46:32,360 --> 02:46:35,840
Chris Procession says, Hi, Sam, it's bored, Cody, I have

3241
02:46:35,920 --> 02:46:39,559
a question for a jazz You're citing scholars approve reliability,

3242
02:46:39,920 --> 02:46:45,000
but plenty of scholars met Sir Gerdison Joy to see.

3243
02:46:45,120 --> 02:46:49,239
Rayner Raisner says the anti traces to actual words of Jesus.

3244
02:46:49,280 --> 02:46:51,479
What scholar says, cron traces actual Jesus.

3245
02:46:52,719 --> 02:46:54,760
Speaker 4: Do you want me to answer this? It's quite simple. Sure,

3246
02:46:56,159 --> 02:46:58,079
So scholars do not say it traces back to the

3247
02:46:58,239 --> 02:47:01,239
very words of Jesus said. It goes back to the

3248
02:47:01,399 --> 02:47:04,040
ideas about what Jesus could have said. It's called the

3249
02:47:04,120 --> 02:47:07,360
epistem of Vox. So what Jesus could have said, there

3250
02:47:07,479 --> 02:47:10,200
is no way to determine that Jesus actually said anything

3251
02:47:10,559 --> 02:47:13,000
that is claimed in the New Testament, and between the

3252
02:47:13,079 --> 02:47:16,319
Gospels themselves, they're not datable to the first century, see,

3253
02:47:16,719 --> 02:47:19,360
which is the big problem. We can largely assume that

3254
02:47:19,399 --> 02:47:22,159
they're from the second century onwards, as Sam claimed in

3255
02:47:22,280 --> 02:47:25,959
his interview with Chattiscoa. I think was the name or yeah,

3256
02:47:26,559 --> 02:47:28,840
just to be clear. As for the Quran, however, they

3257
02:47:28,920 --> 02:47:31,760
don't have to guess because the manuscripts of it in

3258
02:47:31,840 --> 02:47:34,120
the light time of the perfect Peace per Oponem. But

3259
02:47:34,280 --> 02:47:38,159
the manuscripts aside, they have inscriptions. But the inscriptions aside,

3260
02:47:38,479 --> 02:47:41,840
we have other geographical data that is widespread enough to

3261
02:47:42,200 --> 02:47:45,040
definitively prove that the Quran as we have it today

3262
02:47:45,399 --> 02:47:47,440
is from the light time of the profect Peace Perponem

3263
02:47:47,639 --> 02:47:50,159
and his companions. We call this, just to be clear,

3264
02:47:50,200 --> 02:47:53,079
and archetypal text. This is what we accept as Muslims.

3265
02:47:53,680 --> 02:47:56,600
But for Christians there is no such thing. I would

3266
02:47:56,760 --> 02:47:58,959
like some or j. Toy really point out that the

3267
02:47:59,040 --> 02:48:01,680
Bible as they have it, the scholars refer to it

3268
02:48:01,799 --> 02:48:06,680
as a voltage or a hypothetical reconstruction. It's not actually

3269
02:48:06,760 --> 02:48:09,600
the word of God when you see it mentions that

3270
02:48:10,239 --> 02:48:13,399
every word, every word in scripture is God readed. They

3271
02:48:13,399 --> 02:48:16,200
should amended to stay. It may be God readed, but

3272
02:48:16,399 --> 02:48:19,200
we can't actually know. I mean, for goodness sake, Jesus

3273
02:48:19,239 --> 02:48:20,040
got God's name wrong.

3274
02:48:20,680 --> 02:48:23,000
Speaker 5: Can I respond to him because he brought a question

3275
02:48:23,040 --> 02:48:23,319
for us?

3276
02:48:24,000 --> 02:48:26,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean he was answering a question from one

3277
02:48:26,200 --> 02:48:26,879
of the chapter.

3278
02:48:27,680 --> 02:48:27,920
Speaker 5: Answer.

3279
02:48:28,799 --> 02:48:30,639
Speaker 1: I want to make sure everybody gets a fair say here,

3280
02:48:30,639 --> 02:48:32,200
because my thing is I want you guys to make it.

3281
02:48:32,239 --> 02:48:34,280
Put your ideas out there and let the Chat decide

3282
02:48:34,319 --> 02:48:36,799
who they thinks went. So go ahead please okay.

3283
02:48:36,879 --> 02:48:39,399
Speaker 5: Now number one again, because he doesn't know much how.

3284
02:48:39,360 --> 02:48:42,200
Speaker 4: We got them to do responses to this chapter. We

3285
02:48:42,280 --> 02:48:43,000
didn't agree on that.

3286
02:48:43,799 --> 02:48:45,399
Speaker 1: Well, I mean you answered the chat and then he

3287
02:48:45,479 --> 02:48:47,159
wants to give his perspectives.

3288
02:48:47,280 --> 02:48:51,399
Speaker 2: You asked answer, Let him respond, and then we can

3289
02:48:51,479 --> 02:48:52,040
respond to that.

3290
02:48:52,639 --> 02:48:57,280
Speaker 5: Okay if you response number one, okay, when he talks

3291
02:48:57,280 --> 02:49:00,360
about it, some of oxy some of Verba. Now he

3292
02:49:00,479 --> 02:49:02,920
just destroyed the Koran. Even worse because when we come

3293
02:49:03,040 --> 02:49:05,719
to the case of the Gospels, no Christian denies that

3294
02:49:05,840 --> 02:49:08,479
human authors were used to communicate the words of Jesus

3295
02:49:08,639 --> 02:49:11,159
in translation and Greek and God can do that, so

3296
02:49:11,360 --> 02:49:13,840
they're not going to quote exactly the same way in

3297
02:49:13,879 --> 02:49:16,479
the target language. But what he doesn't tell you, and

3298
02:49:16,559 --> 02:49:19,959
I did series on this, Allah, who's supposedly speaking the Koran,

3299
02:49:20,280 --> 02:49:24,239
will repeat the same story with the same speech, whether

3300
02:49:24,399 --> 02:49:28,840
Moses and the Egyptians or Chapan Ebliez and Allah or

3301
02:49:28,840 --> 02:49:31,399
a lot, and he cannot get the details in the

3302
02:49:31,520 --> 02:49:35,399
exact same way. He'll quote the same speeches and often

3303
02:49:35,840 --> 02:49:40,600
various conflicting, contradictory reporting. So the churn itself is one

3304
02:49:40,719 --> 02:49:44,280
huge ipsissima vox, which is surprising because I thought Allah

3305
02:49:44,319 --> 02:49:47,920
speaking and Allah knows everything and recalls speeches perfectly. So

3306
02:49:48,079 --> 02:49:50,319
much for Allah and him being all knowing. And then

3307
02:49:50,360 --> 02:49:52,639
if we extend that to the Hadith, your own scholars

3308
02:49:52,719 --> 02:49:55,840
admit that when it comes to even your authentic traditions,

3309
02:49:56,200 --> 02:49:59,239
you have i seima vox of your prophet, not ep

3310
02:49:59,319 --> 02:50:04,120
sees some of Verba. Moreover, if the Bible is not preserved,

3311
02:50:04,319 --> 02:50:07,479
you prove Mohammed is an antichrist because he confirmed all

3312
02:50:07,559 --> 02:50:11,360
the scriptures. He didn't make any fuss about the variant readings.

3313
02:50:11,719 --> 02:50:13,639
Because if he did, he would end up bearing your

3314
02:50:13,680 --> 02:50:15,920
Koran because he admit that the Koran did not come

3315
02:50:16,000 --> 02:50:18,719
down in one mode. Aharuf, with your scholars till this

3316
02:50:18,840 --> 02:50:21,399
day don't even know what that means. That's why I

3317
02:50:21,440 --> 02:50:25,000
have over thirty five opinions about what the aharu are,

3318
02:50:25,559 --> 02:50:28,760
which means, if you're consistent, you just destroyed the Koran.

3319
02:50:28,920 --> 02:50:31,520
You destroyed your prophet, you destroyed your God. Stop being

3320
02:50:31,559 --> 02:50:33,000
a Muslim, joined Barber Madam.

3321
02:50:33,159 --> 02:50:35,600
Speaker 4: So I could just respond to this quickly. I mean,

3322
02:50:35,680 --> 02:50:38,120
the Bible affirms that the prophet Muhammad is a true

3323
02:50:38,159 --> 02:50:42,920
prophet in first John I'm reading it. Yes, it falls

3324
02:50:42,959 --> 02:50:46,159
on its fig but it says something's occasionallyvites brooken cluck

3325
02:50:46,200 --> 02:50:49,319
come the rights, brook looking cluck come, he write twice

3326
02:50:49,319 --> 02:50:52,760
a deep right. I don't deny that the Bible God

3327
02:50:52,840 --> 02:50:53,040
is one.

3328
02:50:55,840 --> 02:50:58,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, job.

3329
02:50:59,559 --> 02:51:03,399
Speaker 4: You never say we never made the claim that here.

3330
02:51:04,559 --> 02:51:06,079
Speaker 5: So we can interrupt you.

3331
02:51:06,319 --> 02:51:08,479
Speaker 2: We can interrupt you to you want, because.

3332
02:51:16,440 --> 02:51:18,920
Speaker 4: Neither Daniel or I made the claim that all of

3333
02:51:19,000 --> 02:51:21,239
the Bible is for so wrong. It gets things right

3334
02:51:21,280 --> 02:51:25,879
that men, Jesus, Mother, Jesus, well, it gets advice when

3335
02:51:25,920 --> 02:51:28,719
God's wold agrees with it, not when it's allows genocide

3336
02:51:28,840 --> 02:51:29,440
in your case.

3337
02:51:29,680 --> 02:51:31,319
Speaker 3: So that's what we have.

3338
02:51:32,079 --> 02:51:38,239
Speaker 5: So you Jesus, Jesus, Mom's God.

3339
02:51:38,239 --> 02:51:41,280
Speaker 4: And keep keep interrupting because you don't like the answer.

3340
02:51:41,639 --> 02:51:44,799
But let's be clear here that the Bible first joined

3341
02:51:44,799 --> 02:51:48,680
for two versus two and three. It mentions directly anyone

3342
02:51:48,920 --> 02:51:51,760
who testifies that Jesus is the Christ and that Jesus

3343
02:51:51,879 --> 02:51:54,000
came in the flesh. It's a true spirit from God.

3344
02:51:54,319 --> 02:51:55,760
So you may not have to like it, but your

3345
02:51:55,760 --> 02:52:01,000
Bible of films Muhammad, And secondly, secondly, you know genu Secondly,

3346
02:52:01,159 --> 02:52:04,079
secondly to be good because I it doesn't have to

3347
02:52:04,120 --> 02:52:05,719
be genuine for me as well as you believe in it.

3348
02:52:05,799 --> 02:52:09,280
It's for me to there's that point the Bible against you.

3349
02:52:09,760 --> 02:52:12,200
I can pre the Bible against you. I don't have

3350
02:52:12,319 --> 02:52:16,559
to assume to use it against you. It's not secular

3351
02:52:16,639 --> 02:52:19,319
reasoning because I'm not implying the consequence to becose. So

3352
02:52:19,479 --> 02:52:21,280
one more time, please try not to interrupt. And then

3353
02:52:21,319 --> 02:52:23,760
you don't like the answer. Secondly, you made the claim

3354
02:52:24,040 --> 02:52:26,760
that the prophet Peace be upon him committed rape. We

3355
02:52:26,879 --> 02:52:28,760
asked you to show where he did so, and you

3356
02:52:28,879 --> 02:52:31,200
could not. On the upper hand. On the other hand,

3357
02:52:31,280 --> 02:52:34,559
I showed you were Jesus with Jesus the Christ, the

3358
02:52:34,760 --> 02:52:38,280
firms that whatever the Pharisees tell you, do it, it's

3359
02:52:38,319 --> 02:52:42,639
just not your Chapter twenty three the hypocrites sys the hypocrites.

3360
02:52:42,680 --> 02:52:45,079
But he also says obear them or bear them. We

3361
02:52:45,200 --> 02:52:48,760
know that, and the committed genocide. I don't need to

3362
02:52:48,879 --> 02:52:52,600
I quote exactly what I want. Thirdly, Thirdly, thirdly, you

3363
02:52:52,719 --> 02:52:55,040
made the claim. You made the claim that Jesus never

3364
02:52:55,120 --> 02:52:58,239
affirmed anything extreme. But if you believe he affirmed the

3365
02:52:58,280 --> 02:53:03,000
Old Testament, he affirmed the crimes to rapes, the genie babies.

3366
02:53:04,280 --> 02:53:06,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's killing babies.

3367
02:53:07,479 --> 02:53:07,600
Speaker 1: Them.

3368
02:53:08,440 --> 02:53:10,840
Speaker 5: He's thank Moses to do that, So thank you.

3369
02:53:10,920 --> 02:53:14,159
Speaker 4: Don't believe that and never says that your assumption.

3370
02:53:15,360 --> 02:53:16,280
Speaker 3: Confirm the flood.

3371
02:53:17,479 --> 02:53:20,520
Speaker 4: I said the genocide that some wants to believe in.

3372
02:53:20,840 --> 02:53:23,040
Speaker 2: The difference between the Bible and the difference between the

3373
02:53:23,120 --> 02:53:29,200
Bible and the or on, Yeah, the flood happens. There's

3374
02:53:29,280 --> 02:53:32,479
different than the Bible. The Bible says the soldiers animal,

3375
02:53:32,719 --> 02:53:36,120
Jesus says. Jesus says, the soldiers go kill those babies.

3376
02:53:36,239 --> 02:53:40,079
That's what Jesus says. There's nothing like that Jesus says.

3377
02:53:40,120 --> 02:53:43,840
When Jesus says, Jesus says, go and kill Jesus says,

3378
02:53:43,959 --> 02:53:48,120
go and kill those babies, don't leave anything that. Take

3379
02:53:48,200 --> 02:53:51,799
their women as captives. Go take the the girls with

3380
02:53:51,920 --> 02:53:58,719
any man, the girl the girls who haven't slept with

3381
02:53:58,840 --> 02:54:01,319
any man. Makes them as your captives and shave their

3382
02:54:01,360 --> 02:54:04,879
heads and humiliate though. Okay, we didn't deny the flood.

3383
02:54:04,959 --> 02:54:08,120
We didn't deny that. Just pointing out that's a stupid argument.

3384
02:54:08,719 --> 02:54:11,079
It's a stupid no. It's it is a big difference.

3385
02:54:14,239 --> 02:54:16,440
God want order people.

3386
02:54:16,200 --> 02:54:17,719
Speaker 1: To uncreated things.

3387
02:54:17,879 --> 02:54:22,799
Speaker 7: Nice to be clear, do uncreated things communicable attributes with

3388
02:54:22,920 --> 02:54:25,200
created things? Sich that we can have knowledge of them.

3389
02:54:27,040 --> 02:54:27,239
Speaker 4: Question.

3390
02:54:27,319 --> 02:54:30,639
Speaker 1: So okay, So it's it's I think it was a chat. Okay,

3391
02:54:30,719 --> 02:54:32,440
this on I'm gonna do. I think Dan, you got

3392
02:54:32,479 --> 02:54:34,520
to say what you want to say about talking about

3393
02:54:34,559 --> 02:54:37,639
what Jesus had had done. Sam, I'll let you respond because.

3394
02:54:37,399 --> 02:54:39,479
Speaker 2: You were trying to I didn't get to finish my point.

3395
02:54:39,760 --> 02:54:41,879
Speaker 1: Interrupted finished finish your point, and then it goes to

3396
02:54:41,959 --> 02:54:43,959
Sam and then Jay and then we'll finish off on this.

3397
02:54:44,479 --> 02:54:47,879
Speaker 2: There's a difference between God sending pestilence or God like

3398
02:54:48,000 --> 02:54:51,520
sending a catastrophe to punish a people. That's a that

3399
02:54:51,760 --> 02:54:54,719
is a natural disaster that God commands. That's different from

3400
02:54:54,760 --> 02:54:57,799
what the Bible says. The Bible Jesus is telling Moses

3401
02:54:58,239 --> 02:55:02,200
go and kill the women, children and leave nothing that breathes.

3402
02:55:02,639 --> 02:55:05,760
That is a command to people, to soldiers to yog

3403
02:55:06,040 --> 02:55:08,959
and actually commit that. And the interpreters of the Bible,

3404
02:55:09,040 --> 02:55:13,520
including the Christians, took those verses to justify their genocidal

3405
02:55:13,639 --> 02:55:17,520
programs in the Roman Empire, in the Byzantine Empire, all

3406
02:55:17,559 --> 02:55:20,280
the way to the colonial period. They use these versus

3407
02:55:20,440 --> 02:55:23,520
the Bible. Israel today, they're using these verses of the

3408
02:55:23,600 --> 02:55:26,360
Bible to justify their genocide throughout history.

3409
02:55:26,680 --> 02:55:29,120
Speaker 4: Now you have Orthodox Church as well, the Russian or

3410
02:55:29,200 --> 02:55:32,280
the Church uses the verses to justify the murders and

3411
02:55:32,360 --> 02:55:32,920
Ukraine as well.

3412
02:55:33,000 --> 02:55:35,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, Muslims don't say, oh, we can go chill kill

3413
02:55:36,040 --> 02:55:39,559
babies because there was Noah's flood. Like, no one Muslim

3414
02:55:39,600 --> 02:55:42,399
has had this interpretation. But that's the difference between the

3415
02:55:42,440 --> 02:55:43,239
Bible and the churn.

3416
02:55:43,479 --> 02:55:44,920
Speaker 1: Let me go to Sam and Jay so they can

3417
02:55:45,600 --> 02:55:48,959
respond and then we'll finish this topic. Yeah, go ahead, Sam,

3418
02:55:49,040 --> 02:55:50,120
I know you're trying to say some.

3419
02:55:52,719 --> 02:55:53,319
Speaker 2: Do we lose them?

3420
02:55:53,920 --> 02:55:56,079
Speaker 1: Is he muted? He's muted? Sam?

3421
02:55:56,159 --> 02:55:56,719
Speaker 3: Are you muted?

3422
02:55:57,600 --> 02:55:59,879
Speaker 1: Yeah? You can out mute yourself, Samm. We'll try to. Yeah,

3423
02:56:00,559 --> 02:56:01,239
all right, we'll all go.

3424
02:56:01,319 --> 02:56:03,239
Speaker 5: Well ahead, go ahead, you ready or read me to

3425
02:56:03,239 --> 02:56:05,559
go for you get the last word, Jay, let's go ahead. Okay,

3426
02:56:05,879 --> 02:56:08,559
all right. I know you guys have a hard time hearing,

3427
02:56:08,760 --> 02:56:12,120
because let me repeat again what you fail to address adequately.

3428
02:56:13,159 --> 02:56:15,399
You just prove Jesus as a love Mohammed's God, and judge,

3429
02:56:15,479 --> 02:56:16,719
let me repeat they again.

3430
02:56:16,840 --> 02:56:18,719
Speaker 2: Everything we said proves that apparently so well.

3431
02:56:18,840 --> 02:56:22,879
Speaker 5: Chapter two, verse forty six to fifty one. Read Chapter two,

3432
02:56:22,959 --> 02:56:25,440
verse two forty six two fifty one. Read Chapter five,

3433
02:56:25,520 --> 02:56:29,120
verse twenty to twenty six. Jesus, you're a lah Mohammed's

3434
02:56:29,159 --> 02:56:30,959
God who gave him the Koran, and you corrupted it.

3435
02:56:31,479 --> 02:56:34,079
He's the one who ordered what Moses and Joshua and

3436
02:56:34,280 --> 02:56:37,520
Saul did. And there's nothing in these passages that say

3437
02:56:38,159 --> 02:56:38,600
that when you.

3438
02:56:38,719 --> 02:56:39,559
Speaker 1: Go ahead this.

3439
02:56:41,159 --> 02:56:51,399
Speaker 2: That yours read the Koran.

3440
02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:53,479
Speaker 5: Let me speak, stop following, let me.

3441
02:56:53,479 --> 02:56:59,600
Speaker 1: Read read and I read an.

3442
02:56:58,000 --> 02:56:59,520
Speaker 5: I know you're about to recite the Koran, and from

3443
02:56:59,639 --> 02:57:00,120
let me read.

3444
02:57:04,399 --> 02:57:05,000
Speaker 1: Let him speak.

3445
02:57:05,040 --> 02:57:12,079
Speaker 5: I'll read both. He's they won't let me finish their manifest.

3446
02:57:13,840 --> 02:57:14,920
Speaker 1: You guys, yeah.

3447
02:57:15,200 --> 02:57:20,079
Speaker 5: SIBHATI, Volume four, number three fifty three narrated Abah. The

3448
02:57:20,120 --> 02:57:22,760
prophet said, a prophet amongst the prophets carried out a

3449
02:57:22,879 --> 02:57:26,440
holy military expedition. So he said to his followers, anyone

3450
02:57:26,479 --> 02:57:29,239
who has married a woman wants to consummate the marriage

3451
02:57:29,360 --> 02:57:32,200
and has not done so yet, should not accompany me.

3452
02:57:32,440 --> 02:57:34,760
Nor should a man who has built a house but

3453
02:57:34,959 --> 02:57:38,559
has not completed through, nor a man who is sheep

3454
02:57:38,719 --> 02:57:40,479
or she camels and is waiting for the birth of

3455
02:57:40,520 --> 02:57:43,319
their young ones. So the prophet carried out the expedition,

3456
02:57:43,520 --> 02:57:45,879
and when he reached that town at the time or

3457
02:57:45,959 --> 02:57:48,440
nearly at the time of the act prayer, he said

3458
02:57:48,440 --> 02:57:51,280
to the son, O, son, you're under Allah's order, and

3459
02:57:51,360 --> 02:57:54,879
I'm under Allah's order. Oh Allah, stop the sun from sitting.

3460
02:57:55,120 --> 02:57:58,159
It was stopped till Allah made him victorious. Then he

3461
02:57:58,239 --> 02:58:00,440
collected the booty, and the fire came to burn it,

3462
02:58:00,760 --> 02:58:02,600
but it did not burn it. He said to the men,

3463
02:58:02,719 --> 02:58:05,399
some of you have stolen something from the booty. So

3464
02:58:05,600 --> 02:58:07,680
one man from every tribe should give me a pledge

3465
02:58:07,799 --> 02:58:10,760
of allegiance by shaking hands with me. They did so,

3466
02:58:11,040 --> 02:58:13,600
and the hand of a man got stuck over the

3467
02:58:13,680 --> 02:58:16,399
hand of their profit. Then that prophet said to the man,

3468
02:58:16,879 --> 02:58:19,159
the theft has been committed by your people, so all

3469
02:58:19,200 --> 02:58:21,079
the persons of your tribe should give me the pledge

3470
02:58:21,120 --> 02:58:23,520
of allegiance by shaking hands with him. The hands of

3471
02:58:23,600 --> 02:58:25,399
two or three men got stuck over the hand of

3472
02:58:25,440 --> 02:58:28,040
their prophet. He said, you have committed the theft. Then

3473
02:58:28,040 --> 02:58:30,120
they brought a head of gold, like the head of

3474
02:58:30,159 --> 02:58:31,719
a cow and put it there, and the fire came

3475
02:58:31,760 --> 02:58:34,399
and consume the body. The prophet added, then Allah sorrow,

3476
02:58:34,440 --> 02:58:38,479
weakness and disability, so he made booty legal for us. Here, Sahibukati,

3477
02:58:39,200 --> 02:58:43,079
your profit confirms dur on me twenty verses one to nine,

3478
02:58:43,159 --> 02:58:45,760
which you just attacked earlier, meaning you're better than your prophet.

3479
02:58:46,040 --> 02:58:46,920
Speaker 4: I didn't get the murder.

3480
02:58:47,920 --> 02:58:49,079
Speaker 5: Don't interrupt me, Boddy.

3481
02:58:50,000 --> 02:58:51,120
Speaker 2: Where's the murder of the rape?

3482
02:58:53,239 --> 02:58:53,719
Speaker 3: Where was that?

3483
02:58:54,719 --> 02:59:01,600
Speaker 2: You didn't say any of that yet when he goes, yeah, why.

3484
02:59:04,040 --> 02:59:07,079
Speaker 5: I got to destroyed destroy gad.

3485
02:59:07,280 --> 02:59:09,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Jake, finish, finish up here, and then

3486
02:59:09,559 --> 02:59:12,120
when we want to the next topic, and then Dan,

3487
02:59:12,159 --> 02:59:13,559
I know you said, you have to go right at

3488
02:59:13,639 --> 02:59:14,079
eight thirty.

3489
02:59:14,120 --> 02:59:16,719
Speaker 2: You have to pray. Yeah, I have to pray pre soon.

3490
02:59:16,799 --> 02:59:19,840
So okay, are we finishing up, finishing up? Yeah, we

3491
02:59:19,920 --> 02:59:22,440
are finishing up here. Okay, go ahead, Jay.

3492
02:59:23,760 --> 02:59:25,120
Speaker 3: No, Sam, you can finish that point.

3493
02:59:25,200 --> 02:59:26,639
Speaker 5: You can take the rest of Oh, they're going to

3494
02:59:26,719 --> 02:59:28,879
manifest because it's time for prayer. So let's see if

3495
02:59:28,879 --> 02:59:31,680
they can control themselves. Okay, guys, did you hear me

3496
02:59:31,799 --> 02:59:37,120
read Nothing in the context makes any any exceptions Mohammed's

3497
02:59:37,159 --> 02:59:41,280
confirming these stories as fund in the Bible. Nothing in

3498
02:59:41,360 --> 02:59:45,040
the context says that Joshua was told all but spare

3499
02:59:45,159 --> 02:59:48,440
women and children. They have to read it because they

3500
02:59:48,520 --> 02:59:54,639
got humiliated. So please keep keep manifesto.

3501
02:59:58,879 --> 03:00:01,079
Speaker 2: Just let them finish. Limb finished, and then we'll make

3502
03:00:01,120 --> 03:00:01,600
your points.

3503
03:00:01,840 --> 03:00:04,040
Speaker 5: So now the burnup proof is on Daniel before he

3504
03:00:04,120 --> 03:00:07,360
goes and praise to Bab. Show me in these passages

3505
03:00:07,440 --> 03:00:11,879
and sorted the five twenty to twenty six, two two

3506
03:00:11,959 --> 03:00:13,360
forty six to two fifty.

3507
03:00:13,120 --> 03:00:18,559
Speaker 2: One and this, and I can again let him finish.

3508
03:00:18,760 --> 03:00:21,840
Speaker 5: Just show me man to follow the son of your prophet.

3509
03:00:22,120 --> 03:00:26,719
So now, Jesus, in those passages your prophets said that

3510
03:00:27,040 --> 03:00:31,200
when Allah sent Musa and Joshua that he gave them

3511
03:00:31,319 --> 03:00:34,600
the orders spare the women and children, because he quotes

3512
03:00:34,680 --> 03:00:37,799
them as is, and he confirms the Torah in his possession.

3513
03:00:38,239 --> 03:00:41,280
So now go ahead condemn your prophet. Christ wins, Muhammad

3514
03:00:41,280 --> 03:00:41,799
loses again.

3515
03:00:41,799 --> 03:00:45,879
Speaker 2: Go ahead, are you done so? First of all, First

3516
03:00:45,920 --> 03:00:48,319
of all, you didn't show that the verses of the

3517
03:00:48,520 --> 03:00:52,600
Quran or the hadith are condoning rape and murder. That's

3518
03:00:52,639 --> 03:00:56,360
your first lie from as found in the Bible. We

3519
03:00:56,440 --> 03:00:59,840
read verses the Bible. We'll read it again. Jesus said

3520
03:00:59,840 --> 03:01:02,360
to Moses, have you let the women live? Now kill

3521
03:01:02,440 --> 03:01:05,120
every male among the little ones, and kill every woman,

3522
03:01:06,479 --> 03:01:09,120
every woman who has known man by lying with him.

3523
03:01:09,159 --> 03:01:12,559
So basically, save the virgins for yourself, that's what Jesus says.

3524
03:01:12,920 --> 03:01:15,319
And then you can force them to marry you, shave

3525
03:01:15,360 --> 03:01:17,719
their heads and humiliate them. This is what we're reading

3526
03:01:17,760 --> 03:01:21,159
from numbers. So this is like you didn't mention it

3527
03:01:21,200 --> 03:01:25,079
any rate. The Hadith that Hejazz read earlier says that

3528
03:01:25,200 --> 03:01:28,120
there's no killing of women and children. Why can't you

3529
03:01:28,200 --> 03:01:31,239
deal with that? We don't read one kadith and say that.

3530
03:01:32,760 --> 03:01:33,879
Speaker 1: You let me do it.

3531
03:01:34,120 --> 03:01:36,360
Speaker 5: See we didn't interrupt you, right, okay, good, No, you

3532
03:01:36,399 --> 03:01:37,879
actually had just it, so stop lying.

3533
03:01:38,000 --> 03:01:39,479
Speaker 2: And we told him not to. I told him.

3534
03:01:39,760 --> 03:01:41,799
Speaker 5: He kept doing it. He kept manifesting the moment. Albert,

3535
03:01:41,920 --> 03:01:43,079
you want me to give me a minute, Watch what

3536
03:01:43,120 --> 03:01:44,719
I do with number thirty one. I'll bury.

3537
03:01:46,479 --> 03:01:47,399
Speaker 4: And say that's on my face.

3538
03:01:47,879 --> 03:01:50,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, a little short guy like you, you need

3539
03:01:50,280 --> 03:01:50,879
Daniel to help you.

3540
03:01:52,959 --> 03:01:55,959
Speaker 1: Guys see that this isn't gonna you guys are just

3541
03:01:56,000 --> 03:01:57,840
gonna keep going in a circle. It's fine.

3542
03:01:59,760 --> 03:02:05,120
Speaker 2: Just the point was that there's no passage in the Oran.

3543
03:02:05,200 --> 03:02:08,239
There's no verse that condones genocide. Whereas we read the

3544
03:02:08,319 --> 03:02:11,719
explicit words of Jesus saying to go and kill the babies.

3545
03:02:12,000 --> 03:02:13,920
You can't. How are you coping with this? It's all

3546
03:02:14,040 --> 03:02:17,239
just a coke from Sam and it looks silly. So

3547
03:02:17,520 --> 03:02:19,440
this is you didn't quote anything. We quoted you the

3548
03:02:19,479 --> 03:02:21,680
hadith that says don't kill women and children. We don't

3549
03:02:21,719 --> 03:02:24,079
just take the qorm, we take the So when you

3550
03:02:24,600 --> 03:02:27,559
cite one hadith, you didn't show. You didn't show where

3551
03:02:27,600 --> 03:02:31,639
that hadith says kill women and children. You didn't show that.

3552
03:02:31,840 --> 03:02:34,959
Where does the hadith say kill women and children? Don't

3553
03:02:35,040 --> 03:02:38,120
just fill a buster and pretend we're not going to notice.

3554
03:02:38,479 --> 03:02:40,520
As you don't pretend we're not going to notice that

3555
03:02:40,719 --> 03:02:43,319
nothing that you read says kill women and children. I

3556
03:02:43,360 --> 03:02:45,799
don't where does it say, Where does it say where

3557
03:02:45,879 --> 03:02:47,559
does it say kill women and children?

3558
03:02:47,920 --> 03:02:48,120
Speaker 3: Where?

3559
03:02:48,440 --> 03:02:49,520
Speaker 1: Where does it take kill women?

3560
03:02:49,600 --> 03:02:52,559
Speaker 5: And I answer you their question. I know you don't

3561
03:02:52,600 --> 03:02:54,479
know logic and you want to shift to burn a proof.

3562
03:02:55,120 --> 03:02:57,280
You quoted adith where your prophet said it. But there's

3563
03:02:57,360 --> 03:03:01,399
the same Hadith that says, but if women and children

3564
03:03:01,520 --> 03:03:04,559
are killed, they are of them. It's inside Muslim. I

3565
03:03:04,760 --> 03:03:07,920
mentioned it, but you in the chapter, Read the chapter,

3566
03:03:08,360 --> 03:03:09,680
Read the chapter.

3567
03:03:09,879 --> 03:03:16,079
Speaker 4: Heaven says the chapter prohibition of killing women and children,

3568
03:03:16,200 --> 03:03:18,600
and it was not a permission to killing women and

3569
03:03:18,680 --> 03:03:20,479
child glory.

3570
03:03:21,440 --> 03:03:24,079
Speaker 1: We're going to move on position. We're just gonna move on.

3571
03:03:24,159 --> 03:03:26,200
There's no question here for the for for team as well,

3572
03:03:27,040 --> 03:03:30,520
there's a question follow my team your life. You claim

3573
03:03:30,559 --> 03:03:37,360
the one the one that you assaulted, and let me

3574
03:03:37,479 --> 03:03:38,799
let me just read this. Let me just read this

3575
03:03:39,280 --> 03:03:41,079
a follow for team as loam. You claim the Qoran

3576
03:03:41,200 --> 03:03:43,719
was uncreated and uncreated things noble. To be clear, I

3577
03:03:43,799 --> 03:03:49,040
do uncreated things, share communic communicable attributes. Was created things

3578
03:03:49,239 --> 03:03:52,799
such that we can have knowledge of them. I think

3579
03:03:52,799 --> 03:03:54,959
that's that's a question for team as. I'll turn that

3580
03:03:55,040 --> 03:03:56,000
to a because he answered the.

3581
03:03:56,000 --> 03:04:00,120
Speaker 4: First indicative, it's indicator. We can indicate things, but not

3582
03:04:00,200 --> 03:04:02,600
the exactly but not not the exact essence of them,

3583
03:04:02,840 --> 03:04:07,600
which is why establishes commentary. There is nothing absolutely like him,

3584
03:04:07,760 --> 03:04:10,959
but he can indicate knowledge which is familiar to us. Okay,

3585
03:04:11,040 --> 03:04:11,799
that's pretty much.

3586
03:04:11,719 --> 03:04:13,559
Speaker 1: It fair enough, So what I'm gonna do is I'm

3587
03:04:13,600 --> 03:04:16,440
gonna uh And then last one here one question for Daniel.

3588
03:04:16,479 --> 03:04:18,879
If your prophet is a representation of what you should be,

3589
03:04:19,000 --> 03:04:23,520
why don't all Muslims have intercourse with nine year olds?

3590
03:04:23,520 --> 03:04:25,159
And why don't you allow your daughter to get married

3591
03:04:25,159 --> 03:04:26,879
when she is six? Do you want to address that?

3592
03:04:27,399 --> 03:04:28,040
Because there's this.

3593
03:04:28,760 --> 03:04:32,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, I have an entire debate with a Christian

3594
03:04:32,760 --> 03:04:36,920
on this opiy right, and well what sorry on the

3595
03:04:37,000 --> 03:04:38,719
asia if I'm not mistaken, right? The nine year old

3596
03:04:38,760 --> 03:04:41,280
is aglisha yeah, rug ala, I don't have the wife

3597
03:04:41,360 --> 03:04:43,040
of the prophet peace fee upon him. This is the

3598
03:04:43,159 --> 03:04:46,319
number one thing that Christians want to bring up against Islam.

3599
03:04:46,840 --> 03:04:49,280
And we pointed out in this debate that the Bible

3600
03:04:49,399 --> 03:04:53,399
has no problem with child marriage. The Church actually has

3601
03:04:53,479 --> 03:04:55,920
no problem with child marriage and actually endorses it with

3602
03:04:56,200 --> 03:04:59,719
twelve years old or younger. Canon law, gration endorses it.

3603
03:05:00,079 --> 03:05:03,120
And even Jay could not condemn Thomas Aquinas as a pedophile.

3604
03:05:03,239 --> 03:05:06,200
He condemns him, he condemns him, but he doesn't say

3605
03:05:06,239 --> 03:05:09,159
that he's a pedophile. So actually, within this debate, we've

3606
03:05:09,200 --> 03:05:13,920
seen plenty of resources within Christianity that child marriage is condoned,

3607
03:05:14,040 --> 03:05:16,840
it's accepted, and that's the Christian tradition. Now Christians want

3608
03:05:16,840 --> 03:05:19,799
to throw their entire Bible, their church tradition in the

3609
03:05:19,920 --> 03:05:23,200
trash go ahead. Muslims were consistent. We say that look,

3610
03:05:23,559 --> 03:05:26,200
marriage can happen at the age of puberty. When a

3611
03:05:26,520 --> 03:05:29,360
girl goes through puberty or a boy goes through purity puberty,

3612
03:05:29,399 --> 03:05:32,040
then they can get married. And that is what God

3613
03:05:32,120 --> 03:05:34,440
has allowed, and that's what every culture and religion has

3614
03:05:34,559 --> 03:05:37,479
practiced historically. It's only become a problem in modern times

3615
03:05:37,520 --> 03:05:40,879
because of modern educational system that requires you to go

3616
03:05:41,040 --> 03:05:43,440
through twelve years of education so you can become a

3617
03:05:43,879 --> 03:05:46,760
wage slave, go and work in the factories, go and

3618
03:05:46,840 --> 03:05:49,319
work for the industries. So they want to prevent you

3619
03:05:49,399 --> 03:05:52,440
from getting married younger as a teenager. Instead, they want

3620
03:05:52,479 --> 03:05:55,879
you to fornicate. They want little girls at nine years

3621
03:05:55,920 --> 03:05:57,959
old to fornicate with each other. And a lot of

3622
03:05:58,000 --> 03:06:00,280
these Christians, they don't have problems with their kids having

3623
03:06:00,280 --> 03:06:04,959
a girlfriend or boyfriend or experimenting with sex at age nine, ten, eleven, twelve.

3624
03:06:05,000 --> 03:06:08,319
That's happening rampant within Western society. All we hear is

3625
03:06:08,360 --> 03:06:12,360
about how Islam is pedophilic. Well, look at your own societies.

3626
03:06:12,600 --> 03:06:15,159
Marriage would be the solution to the amount of degeneracy

3627
03:06:15,239 --> 03:06:17,879
that unfortunately we see in the West. And maybe Jay

3628
03:06:17,879 --> 03:06:20,040
would agree with me, Maybe not Sam, but Jay would

3629
03:06:20,520 --> 03:06:23,040
might agree that marriage can be the solution for a

3630
03:06:23,079 --> 03:06:25,200
fifteen year old to get married, a fourteen year old

3631
03:06:25,239 --> 03:06:27,360
to get married. That was certainly the church's position.

3632
03:06:27,920 --> 03:06:32,399
Speaker 1: Okay, anything else, all right, that was the last one.

3633
03:06:32,440 --> 03:06:34,159
So guys, thank you so much for coming on the podcast.

3634
03:06:34,200 --> 03:06:36,520
I want you, guys to all just kind of to

3635
03:06:36,639 --> 03:06:38,680
say where the people can find you, where they can

3636
03:06:38,840 --> 03:06:41,000
you know, get their get your content. If they're interested

3637
03:06:41,000 --> 03:06:43,840
in learning more about you, we'll turn it over to

3638
03:06:43,959 --> 03:06:44,559
we can start with you.

3639
03:06:44,639 --> 03:06:49,520
Speaker 4: Jays go ahead, yeah, yes, Dawa and everywhere you go hes.

3640
03:06:49,319 --> 03:06:51,840
Speaker 1: YouTube channel, guys, go check them out. Ef Dawa Okay,

3641
03:06:52,520 --> 03:06:53,319
what about you, Daniel.

3642
03:06:54,399 --> 03:06:57,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, Muslim Skeptic that's the channel. You google it muslim

3643
03:06:57,200 --> 03:06:58,760
Skeptic with a K, and we have a lot of

3644
03:06:58,840 --> 03:07:03,120
debates playlists where I debate Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists. So

3645
03:07:03,239 --> 03:07:05,120
you can check me out on muslim Skeptic. There's also

3646
03:07:05,200 --> 03:07:07,760
muslim Skeptic dot com with the website with a lot

3647
03:07:07,840 --> 03:07:08,799
of material as well.

3648
03:07:09,200 --> 03:07:12,920
Speaker 1: Awesome, Sam, Oh you're mute it.

3649
03:07:12,959 --> 03:07:13,159
Speaker 3: Sam.

3650
03:07:13,959 --> 03:07:15,479
Speaker 1: You might have to unmute yourself.

3651
03:07:19,239 --> 03:07:19,399
Speaker 2: Here.

3652
03:07:19,520 --> 03:07:21,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to just unmute yourself. Okay.

3653
03:07:22,920 --> 03:07:24,840
Speaker 5: If you go to YouTube, it's shamuonion s h A

3654
03:07:25,200 --> 03:07:27,719
m o U N I A N. And also on

3655
03:07:27,879 --> 03:07:30,360
Rumble it's Answering Islam, and I have answering a Slam

3656
03:07:30,440 --> 03:07:33,399
blog dot org, press dot com. I try to stream daily,

3657
03:07:33,920 --> 03:07:36,159
so Lord Lank, you can find me there and you

3658
03:07:36,200 --> 03:07:38,159
can find the articles and all the material we use

3659
03:07:38,239 --> 03:07:39,959
there as well as an answering is slum dot info,

3660
03:07:40,040 --> 03:07:40,959
so that's where you can find me.

3661
03:07:41,559 --> 03:07:45,680
Speaker 3: Awesome, Jay, Yeah, Jayson alsos dot com. You can find

3662
03:07:45,719 --> 03:07:48,000
me on all the socials under my name Jadi, or

3663
03:07:48,040 --> 03:07:50,399
you can also find me every Friday hosting the Alex

3664
03:07:50,520 --> 03:07:51,120
Jones Show.

3665
03:07:51,600 --> 03:07:54,760
Speaker 1: All Right Awesome on Info Wars. Uh guys, Uh, I

3666
03:07:54,760 --> 03:07:56,600
hope you guys enjoined the debate. Man, we'll probably host

3667
03:07:56,639 --> 03:07:59,159
something like this maybe in the future. You know, got

3668
03:07:59,200 --> 03:08:01,200
a little personal there times, but the guys still remained

3669
03:08:01,239 --> 03:08:03,280
extremely professional, which I thank you guys for that. Thank

3670
03:08:03,280 --> 03:08:05,319
you guys so much. It was great to have you guys. Guys,

3671
03:08:05,360 --> 03:08:07,559
go please go follow them, go check them out. We'll

3672
03:08:07,600 --> 03:08:10,639
be back here with some lovely ladies in about forty

3673
03:08:10,760 --> 03:08:13,200
five minutes. In about an hour, we'll have some after hours.

3674
03:08:13,239 --> 03:08:15,120
It won't be as kosher as this debate was here,

3675
03:08:15,440 --> 03:08:17,920
so we'll catch you guys. Thank you guys so much

3676
03:08:17,920 --> 03:08:19,479
for coming on the podcast. Great to have you guys.

3677
03:08:19,639 --> 03:08:19,879
Speaker 2: Peace.