Speaker 1: Saint Helen's have lost yet another match, wigging their neighbors
Speaker 1: have a talented batch leads set the pace. Huddersfield win again.
Speaker 1: Who left Ce's coach change looks like it was in vain.
Speaker 1: Okr are going through their usual gears, Wakier having one
Speaker 1: of their best ever years. Welcome to the thirty first
Speaker 1: episode of Super League three sixty, a podcast primarily about
Speaker 1: the top tier of British rugby league.
Speaker 2: My name is Lee.
Speaker 1: Addison and my name is John Davidson. I'm a coach
Speaker 1: in Australia, John a journal in the UK. We are
Speaker 1: on the Ashes Rugby League Rugby League Coach platforms as well,
Speaker 1: and we're on the Rugby League Coach YouTube too if
Speaker 1: you want to look at us.
Speaker 2: And thanks to.
Speaker 1: Rugby League dot com who are taking us and using
Speaker 1: our episodes each week. I do want to say about
Speaker 1: the Ashes Rugby League podcast platform. You've got to the
Speaker 1: end of August to switch, so switch please to Super
Speaker 1: League three sixty podcast or Rugby Coach Podcast or both
Speaker 1: please by the end of August, just so we can
Speaker 1: free up some space for things that we'll be doing
Speaker 1: a bit later in the year. John, have you been
Speaker 1: out and about at games this weekend.
Speaker 3: I haven't been at a game, but I have consumed
Speaker 3: many on the television.
Speaker 1: Okay, so when we get to the television segment of
Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm sure you're gonna have plenty of things
Speaker 1: to say. On Thursday, we had Huddersfield win again against
Speaker 1: Hull LEFC. Your first thoughts before I go through the
Speaker 1: try scorers and whatnot, John, about that that outcome if
Speaker 1: nothing else.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean there was a few sort of staying
Speaker 3: out things I think from that game. Obviously, Haddersfield back
Speaker 3: to back wins is a big result for them when
Speaker 3: you consider how diet the season has been. But I
Speaker 3: think jim And is starting to make some in rides
Speaker 3: there and getting a win is just more of the same.
Speaker 3: One thing that really struck me in that game watching
Speaker 3: it was like one of the Haddersfield tries, just a
Speaker 3: lack of urgency from Halle of ce, like they didn't
Speaker 3: really wanted to chase, didn't really want to put their
Speaker 3: bodies on the line. Yeah, there's just big, big problems
Speaker 3: at that club and this season. I mean they're in
Speaker 3: real danger now finishing last, which you know, considering themselves
Speaker 3: on Haddersfield to spend the full cap. That's that's pretty damning,
Speaker 3: and that there's three teams that have come up from
Speaker 3: the championship. So yeah, you can't run out of things
Speaker 3: to say about HOLLFC because it's just an absolute shit shot.
Speaker 1: We'll talk a bit more about them and Busfield Giants
Speaker 1: after we've gone through the scorers of the game. Wadersfield
Speaker 1: Giants twenty two, HALLFC sixteen Patolo Wrench, Flannagan and Jagger scored.
Speaker 1: He showed moves like Jagger and Flannagan kicked three goals.
Speaker 1: Halef C sixteen came from Bachelor too from Lytton and
Speaker 1: too from Hardacre. Four wins for Huddersfield this year one
Speaker 1: above them now is all left c. I can't begin
Speaker 1: to tell you how happy I am for for Huddersfield
Speaker 1: that they've finally got some victories on the board because
Speaker 1: contrary to many people's belief, because they seem to have
Speaker 1: featured every week on this podcast for various reasons that
Speaker 1: aren't good, it's because we actually want them to succeed,
Speaker 1: isn't it.
Speaker 2: Well, you don't.
Speaker 3: We don't revelent seeing any club struggle, but you certain
Speaker 3: clubs perhaps handle it better than others and don't make
Speaker 3: certain statements about being unleashed and everything else, or they
Speaker 3: continue to make the same mistakes. But yeah, Huddersfield, you know,
Speaker 3: a spirited wind for them and the match needing and
Speaker 3: I think, look, if they didn't get the wooden spoon
Speaker 3: this year, considering the year, if they managed to kind
Speaker 3: of on a bit of a run now, that would
Speaker 3: be you know, big boost for them and for the
Speaker 3: for the squad.
Speaker 2: And for wat Jim, you know, confidence for Jim, he's
Speaker 2: doing it. HULLFC.
Speaker 1: They they shouldn't be anywhere near this position. I mean,
Speaker 1: we're going to go talk about the running soon, so
Speaker 1: we'll be able to analyze whether we're sinkle FC are
Speaker 1: in danger of finishing in the bottom position.
Speaker 2: Again. You said there's not much more to say. I think.
Speaker 1: There's there's a lot more to analyze though, in terms
Speaker 1: of John Cartwright ended up not being there for the
Speaker 1: rest of this year, the way that was handled and
Speaker 1: there's enough. There's there was enough Hull FC people online
Speaker 1: who were willing to support how that was done and
Speaker 1: explained quite well how it had gone about. But part
Speaker 1: of me thinks, sorry, a big chunk of me thinks
Speaker 1: that it was handled poorly, particularly with hindsight now when
Speaker 1: you see how they've u.
Speaker 2: Fallen through a floor.
Speaker 1: It's pretty clear to me that John cart Right wasn't
Speaker 1: the problem. It's pretty clear to me that Tony Smith
Speaker 1: wasn't the problem. Tony Smith, who had done well at Leeds,
Speaker 1: who'd done well at Warrington, who'd done well at whole KR,
Speaker 1: who'd even managed to do good things at Huddersfield right
Speaker 1: at the start so that he could get all these
Speaker 1: other Super League jobs, had a problem at or Left Sea.
Speaker 1: So there's deeper issues there isn't there that that that
Speaker 1: speak to the way all left s are traveling, not
Speaker 1: just right now in the last few years.
Speaker 2: Definitely.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no doubt that they handled the John
Speaker 3: Cartwright situation very very poorly. Whether he was their coach
Speaker 3: next year or not, they should have handled that in
Speaker 3: a way that he.
Speaker 2: Saw out is he They kept the squad intact.
Speaker 3: That's sort of you know, driven a bit of a
Speaker 3: you could say, a bit of a went through the squad,
Speaker 3: particularly the likes of you know, Aiden sees Are, he's
Speaker 3: Sam Jed obviously he's gone after But they handled that Paulie.
Speaker 2: They didn't really explain it to their fans.
Speaker 3: Or to the wider rugby league community, and they've just
Speaker 3: made some some poor recruitment decisions as well.
Speaker 2: So it's just a bit of a cycle that repeats itself.
Speaker 3: I mean, when you've got people running a club who've
Speaker 3: got no experience running clubs, I mean, and no transparency,
Speaker 3: no accountability, there's you know, it's a recipe for disaster.
Speaker 3: And that's that's what we're that's what we're seeing dished
Speaker 3: up at HALFC. Yeah, you know, I think Steve McMahon
Speaker 3: is a good coach and I think he you know,
Speaker 3: is a good appointment, and hopefully he can turn that around.
Speaker 3: But as you said, the issues definitely run deeper than
Speaker 3: just the head coach.
Speaker 1: I felt so sorry for Early Bird, who's a regular
Speaker 1: contributor to this podcast and a listener, and he tweeted,
Speaker 1: I don't know if he tagged you in he basically
Speaker 1: said he can't bear to listen towards this week and
Speaker 1: for once, it's actually nothing to do with you and
Speaker 1: I John, it's because of his whole and he's so
Speaker 1: devastated by by what he's witnessing his club going through
Speaker 1: right now. And I tell you what must be making
Speaker 1: it a hell of a lot worse. It's that they're
Speaker 1: the neighbors. Hulkingston Rovers are having a bad season by
Speaker 1: their recent standards, if you like. And when I say recent,
Speaker 1: I mean compared to last year. However, Hulls he could
Speaker 1: only dream of having this kind of this kind of season.
Speaker 1: Uk I got back on the winning train this week.
Speaker 1: They beat Bradford Bulls forty to sixteen. Burgers scored two,
Speaker 1: clocking up his two hundred career tries in the process.
Speaker 1: Broadbent may Lytton Davis Minchella scored the rest of the tries.
Speaker 1: The goals were from Hampshire, who kicked three and Martin
Speaker 1: that kicked three, who kicked three Bradford Bulls. Sixteen came
Speaker 1: from Amoritage win Ackers and two goals from Hooley. One
Speaker 1: thing that strikes me, John is how many times there's
Speaker 1: more than one goalkicker when there's a lot of points
Speaker 1: scored in the Super League after I don't know if
Speaker 1: it happens as much in the NRL. I don't think
Speaker 1: anybody goes up to Nathan Clear who goes step aside somehow,
Speaker 1: But but it just seems to be a common thing.
Speaker 1: That's just a little diversion there from what we're here
Speaker 1: to talk about, which is that Joe Burgess reached two
Speaker 1: hundred tries and whole k are pretty easily i think
Speaker 1: dispatched of Bradford Bulls.
Speaker 2: Yeah they did.
Speaker 3: I mean I think you know that was the flashes
Speaker 3: of the whole hour of old. You know, they gifted
Speaker 3: Bradford to try to sort of level it up early
Speaker 3: and then you know, basically stepped up a gear and
Speaker 3: I left Bradford in their dust. I think the highlights
Speaker 3: for me from that game was Tara May scored a
Speaker 3: try where he but he'd beat I think about thirteen players.
Speaker 2: I was like he had spiders on him, that one
Speaker 2: could touch him.
Speaker 3: And then soon after Connor Winns scored a similar one
Speaker 3: to try. I think he went about ninety five meters
Speaker 3: and even Fender off right, I'm sure at the end.
Speaker 3: So that was a pretty special effort. But yeah, Bradford
Speaker 3: well beaten, and for KR who were in that top
Speaker 3: six battle at a very important win and they've got
Speaker 3: a big showdown coming up with with Warrington.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Actually it might be the week after
Speaker 2: the midweek after.
Speaker 3: But yeah, a couple of results now, a couple of
Speaker 3: wins in arewn now for.
Speaker 1: KR and in a irony the journalist on the BBC
Speaker 1: who completed the story and where I read the triscorers
Speaker 1: from their the BBC website it's called Phil cart Right.
Speaker 1: So cart rights are everywhere in whole or were at
Speaker 1: least anyway.
Speaker 2: To lose.
Speaker 1: Went to Leeds and got absolutely how much leads forty
Speaker 1: six to lose zero zilch, nada. Two tries from Connor,
Speaker 1: one to a ledski Holroyd McDonald, Newman, Croft and Lum
Speaker 1: with the other try scorers, and Connor kicked seven goals
Speaker 1: and nobody took him off the job. Very easy to
Speaker 1: read to lose his try scorers today because yes they
Speaker 1: didn't score anything. Apparently their side was quite depleted though.
Speaker 2: Job.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was an Academy debut on in the halves
Speaker 3: and you know, I'm not sure if whether it was
Speaker 3: injuries or just rotation, but you know, leads at home
Speaker 3: on a Friday night at top of the table was
Speaker 3: always going to be a tough ass. And I think
Speaker 3: it was aiding nil to leads at half time and
Speaker 3: they you know, lifted you could say in poland even
Speaker 3: more try a second half. It was pretty much one
Speaker 3: way traffic all game. Yeah, you know, typical kind of
Speaker 3: even with leads with you know, Civo out and a
Speaker 3: few other injuries.
Speaker 2: They've got some pretty good depth that they've built there.
Speaker 3: So very we're going to talk about the top six more,
Speaker 3: particularly the league leaders chase and so a very important
Speaker 3: win for Leeds to stay two points ahead of the
Speaker 3: chasing pack.
Speaker 1: Leads ten matches at home, leads ten wins at home
Speaker 1: this year Lee eight Wigan twenty. I saw some of
Speaker 1: this game tries to senior, well, I try to senior
Speaker 1: from Lee and Cook kick two goals. Wiggans twenty came
Speaker 1: from field French Eckersley, Hodgkinson. Smith kicked two goals. Ten
Speaker 1: wins in a row and all competitions for Wigan. It
Speaker 1: has been described as playoff intensity. I don't know how
Speaker 1: you can call it playoff intensity when Lee just basically
Speaker 1: managed to give Wigan so many opportunities to win the game.
Speaker 1: Playoff intensity is about staying with your opposition for most
Speaker 1: of it, at least so well. I think I think
Speaker 1: they were trying to. I think in terms of intensity.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: There were some really big hits and some you know,
Speaker 3: it was quite fast game. I thought this was a
Speaker 3: really entertaining game. Actually, I did feel a little bit
Speaker 3: for Lee because I think they played quite well in patches,
Speaker 3: but they'd make an error and Wigan would just pick
Speaker 3: up the ball immediately counterattack.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: It was like one of those old football games where
Speaker 3: you know, someone parks the bus and then long ball
Speaker 3: and you get ahead of or a second you know,
Speaker 3: a second ball and someone scores, like hit them on
Speaker 3: the brake that that joy field try, you know, the
Speaker 3: quick tap that was from the lead perspective.
Speaker 2: That was a nightmare. But yeah, great performance from Wigan.
Speaker 3: I think Lee would put everything into it and then
Speaker 3: they'd forced a couple of passes and made a couple
Speaker 3: of errors and Wigan just counter punch them and stole
Speaker 3: stole the victory like a thief in the night. So yeah,
Speaker 3: a big result for them over their local rivals.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from what I saw Lee, Lee were just doing
Speaker 1: silly things. I saw off in goalie try and do
Speaker 1: it a tip on and honestly, sometimes all you need
Speaker 1: to do in Super League is hold the ball and
Speaker 1: just turn the ball over. At the other end of
Speaker 1: the field. Lee struggled to do that, and I think
Speaker 1: people need to look at how Wigan do this, because
Speaker 1: they literally are very good at just turning the ball
Speaker 1: over at the other end of the field, and you
Speaker 1: could almost argue they were waited for Lee to make
Speaker 1: those errors and then they had they had the potency
Speaker 1: to pounce. So it's it's not rocket science. Lee and
Speaker 1: Adrian Lamb and I think that's just where you need
Speaker 1: to get your team too, and tell tell players to
Speaker 1: be a bit more patient with the football. Castleford eighteen
Speaker 1: Warrington forty eight. I saw a bit of this game too.
Speaker 1: Castleford's eighteen came from Artie Sharp laolow to to Gangaia
Speaker 1: and Weaver kicked three. Go on, go on, help me
Speaker 1: Lulu to guy Tonga Guy, Yes, Tongua guy.
Speaker 2: Because there's apostrophe in there, so it's just just calling PLT.
Speaker 2: I think that's PLT Weave three.
Speaker 1: Warrington's forty eight holroyd Ashton got to King Sipy, Harrison,
Speaker 1: Hayes and Curry Irwin kick take gold and I can't
Speaker 1: help but think that Castleford must I don't know how
Speaker 1: much hair their coach has got left because for a
Speaker 1: while there it was again and Castleford just laid down.
Speaker 3: There was sixteen six ahead cast yes you know, yeah
Speaker 3: schizophrenic Castleford again. Times I gifted Warrington at least two
Speaker 3: tries with Theirs at the back, but let' scored some
Speaker 3: nice tries and then some really soft defense again. You know,
Speaker 3: there was a dumb play when someone played the ball
Speaker 3: from Cats and there was no dammy half and then
Speaker 3: Alex Paul again simbind Yeah, soft trial that I considered
Speaker 3: for ben carry right at the end, just yeah, their
Speaker 3: own worst enemy again. You just with cash you never
Speaker 3: know what you're going to get. Low and Hayesport, I
Speaker 3: thought for Warrington was very very good. Well, dere's a
Speaker 3: victory for Warrington, but just some really stupid play from
Speaker 3: the Tigers.
Speaker 1: When I read out this next result and scorers focus
Speaker 1: on praising the winners first and then I've got plenty
Speaker 1: for the for the vanquished in this game. York thirty four,
Speaker 1: Saint Helen's thirty two. York's thirty four came from Benison too.
Speaker 1: From field Bamford Vaughn. I can't believe the former England
Speaker 1: cricket captain is performing now for York and Williams scored
Speaker 1: another and Benison. I hope this isn't less better Benson
Speaker 1: or wrong there Benison. That was Bettinson kick five goals.
Speaker 1: St Helen's thirty two came from Davis right Wellsby got
Speaker 1: to Robertson. Douglas Hastings kicked four goals. Like I said,
Speaker 1: let's focus on York winning great results for them at home.
Speaker 1: They're a hard team to beat at home. That's the
Speaker 1: first win over Saint Helens in eighty years.
Speaker 3: I was going to bring that I'm stet up for you,
Speaker 3: but you're already over. I mean, yeah, first first time
Speaker 3: I've been to announced its nineteen forty six. I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously they're not played a lot, I think each other,
Speaker 3: and that at least for quite a few decades, because
Speaker 3: I haven't been in Super League and not the first Division.
Speaker 3: But as a as a massive result, isn't it first
Speaker 3: victory over the years?
Speaker 1: Okay, Saint Helen's Look.
Speaker 2: Let's let's just I'll just say overall, that is a
Speaker 2: thrilling game.
Speaker 3: Went down to the last minute with a kick from
Speaker 3: the sideline to tie up, and there was some fantastic
Speaker 3: rugby leagues and some great tries in this game.
Speaker 2: But yeah, Saint Helen's another loss.
Speaker 1: There's a reason Saint Helen's haven't lost to York for
Speaker 1: eighty years. I think it shouldn't really be happening. If
Speaker 1: Saint Helen's are performing like they should, let's give them
Speaker 1: something to look forward to. There's some new coach news
Speaker 1: potentially well.
Speaker 3: I heard, yeah, I broake the story during last week
Speaker 3: that Todd Lowry is definitely someone they are looking at.
Speaker 3: There's been a lot of talk about Saint Helens after
Speaker 3: they sat poor Rollie that they're going to look in Australia.
Speaker 3: Ben Holby's pretty much ruled himself out and it is
Speaker 3: interesting obviously with the Lorrie Daily News stepping energy so
Speaker 3: well as coach because you think that would likely to
Speaker 3: be Making or Boyd Corner. So they potential were potential
Speaker 3: candidates as well for Els. But yeah, Todd Lowry's on
Speaker 3: the coaching staff at Melbourne under Craig Bellamy minus n.
Speaker 3: He's pretty highly regarded, had a pretty handy career back
Speaker 3: you know, I think twos twousand and three till till
Speaker 3: maybe about twenty sixteen as.
Speaker 1: A Newcastle paramatterials Melbourne Storm Warriors Warrior. Yeah, so yeah,
Speaker 1: I've heard he's quite highly regarded. So a bit of
Speaker 1: a surprise name when when I first heard that. But
Speaker 1: he's in the mix. But yeah, Officer Allen's sorry, yeah again.
Speaker 1: I mean I always critique the coaching appointments. In March
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Lowry was named as the coach for the
Speaker 1: Skulne Thoroughbred. So that's not far from Newcastle, is it? Scone?
Speaker 1: So that's from Scone as well. Yeah, yeah, that'll be
Speaker 1: in groups something or other in the in.
Speaker 2: The Country Rugby League.
Speaker 1: And then in November twenty two he returned to the
Speaker 1: Storm as the development coach for the Storm's feeder side.
Speaker 1: Now my understanding of development coaches is that they sort
Speaker 1: of hang on the periphery of teams.
Speaker 2: So I one of the worst things Saint Helen's can do.
Speaker 1: I don't know enough about Todd Lowry's job description at Melbourne, okay, so,
Speaker 1: but one of the worst things Saint Helen's can do
Speaker 1: is a pointer coach just because he's from Australia and
Speaker 1: says the right things. So they need to look at background,
Speaker 1: they need to look at actual genuine qualities of what
Speaker 1: a coach requires who comes into Saint Helens will almost
Speaker 1: have to rebuild the club and rebuild the club in
Speaker 1: a new image with a relatively new CEO. And based
Speaker 1: on the information we've got, it's not like with the
Speaker 1: It's not like Todd Lowry is being described as the
Speaker 1: head coach of Melbourne's feed aside. I would imagine he's
Speaker 1: somebody who's on the periphery of that, helping with some skills,
Speaker 1: et cetera.
Speaker 2: There, I'll just cut in there.
Speaker 3: So my understanding is that he works with the first
Speaker 3: team in terms of mentoring players, and he is part
Speaker 3: of Prey Blingy staff, so he's very involved with the
Speaker 3: with the first cred tape first grade team and has
Speaker 3: is quite highly regarded by the.
Speaker 1: I get that, But again the job description. If we
Speaker 1: think about what Saint Helen's need right now, they need
Speaker 1: somebody who can change a culture it seems like a
Speaker 1: broken dressing room. They need somebody who can manage upwards
Speaker 1: with a new CEO and a chairman that have chopped
Speaker 1: through coaches in the last couple of years. They need
Speaker 1: somebody who who can recruit and has some recruiting Paul.
Speaker 1: They need somebody who can probably oversee some youth development
Speaker 1: initiatives as well, but they also need to have a
Speaker 1: rough idea of what they're going to get tactically. Now
Speaker 1: this coach the only team has been head coach obviously
Speaker 1: gone Thoroughbreds.
Speaker 3: Also the Newcastle Knights under twenties I think in twenty sixteen,
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2: Yeah around then.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that wasn't listed. So let's forget. Let's not
Speaker 1: forget the history of Saint Helen's coaches. Who are the
Speaker 1: two best recent coaches they've had in the last ten years.
Speaker 3: I think, just to jump back, I think Tod There
Speaker 3: coached West Newcastle and the Newcastle comp as well, so
Speaker 3: he has got a bit of shall we say head
Speaker 3: coaching experience. But yeah, you're talking about Justin Hallbrok and
Speaker 3: Christian wolf Christian Wolfe sorry, and I think the mold
Speaker 3: for their ice that is an n RL assistant coach
Speaker 3: who's up and coming, who's kind of viewed to be
Speaker 3: as one of the next NRL head coaches.
Speaker 2: He's not even an n r L assistant John Well.
Speaker 3: I think I think he is on the I think
Speaker 3: it fills an assistant role, a fourth in charge by
Speaker 3: fifth in charge.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's his right hand man, is he? That's my
Speaker 2: point and.
Speaker 3: It's not but I think I think my point is
Speaker 3: I think that's what the mold that they're looking for.
Speaker 3: But much like ole k Are, remember wholek Are, I
Speaker 3: think Kalas was their fourth choice. You know, Ben Gardner
Speaker 3: knocked them back. I think Matt King knocked them back
Speaker 3: and Nathan Chalos wasn't even someone who was kind of talked.
Speaker 1: About why are these clubs getting knocked back? Hault Kingston
Speaker 1: Rovers and Alan, you know are two big clubs in
Speaker 1: the you know Wiley, you know cash not just cash.
Speaker 3: I think I think you look at the NRLs bringing
Speaker 3: two new clubs. So you know, Anthony Sewell, Luke Bird
Speaker 3: have gone to PNG with Willie Peters, melmon Inger's got
Speaker 3: Ben Gardner. It isn't necessarily you know, it's still a pathway.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there is more money in the RL for
Speaker 3: coaches and there's more profile and you know there's always
Speaker 3: jobs coming up in Australia, isn't it. You look obviously
Speaker 3: mainly sacked their coach, the Sadai East and St.
Speaker 2: Georgia, the Warriors sacked their coach.
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think if there's any other coaches who've
Speaker 3: been sacked, but you know there's always there's always movement around,
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think Super League's probably not getting necessarily
Speaker 3: the cream of the young or up and coming coaches
Speaker 3: in Australia that it has more recently.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm sure money is one of the factors.
Speaker 1: Catland's twelve Wakefield thirty two. Catland's twelve from Sexton lug
Speaker 1: Ware and two goals from must bar Ol Biche. Wakefield
Speaker 1: thirty two came from Truman, two from Scott Hamlin U
Speaker 1: La Vangna got to on Simpfield kick four Doggie Catalans
Speaker 1: and Wakey is still second in the table, which I'm
Speaker 1: starting to hear it could be one of the best
Speaker 1: ever returns.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean at Wakefield have not got a good
Speaker 3: record over in France that in Perpignon, so a great
Speaker 3: result for them and this game was I think it
Speaker 3: was six The score was sixteen to two with fifty
Speaker 3: six minutes left, so Wakefield just piled on the point.
Speaker 3: I mean Catlands again just quite soft and defensively in
Speaker 3: a lot of elements. I think there was one try
Speaker 3: that the Camp's scored from abat seven in rees out
Speaker 3: you're watching that Lewis Dodge just doesn't advance. You just
Speaker 3: sort of stand for the line, waits with him in
Speaker 3: terrible attempt to contact. So yeah, I think I think
Speaker 3: Catlands had a bit of a dig early on, well
Speaker 3: probably for three quarters of the match, and then just
Speaker 3: basically imploded again. But yeah, all the credit goes to
Speaker 3: Wakefield im and they're having a fantastic season and they've
Speaker 3: got the leads that Iron next up this Friday. I'm
Speaker 3: very much looking forward to that one. First to be
Speaker 3: second local Derby. I think it's going to be a
Speaker 3: sellout at the diy Kitchen Stadium or Bellevue as.
Speaker 2: I'd like to call it.
Speaker 1: Hopefully in the kitchen they can cook up something special. Now, John,
Speaker 1: I believe you've prepared something about the run in. We'll
Speaker 1: go through the table. Have you just looked at the
Speaker 1: top six or if you've done the Wooden Spoon race
Speaker 1: as well?
Speaker 3: I've done the well, I've done the top six, I've
Speaker 3: done the top seven teams.
Speaker 1: Okay, can you quickly look at the Wooden Spoon scenario
Speaker 1: as well while I read out the table?
Speaker 2: Please? Is that okay?
Speaker 1: Because I've got I think, yeah, so no, you just
Speaker 1: do that and I'll read out the table. Yep, so
Speaker 1: Lea Rhino's the top of the table. They've played twenty one,
Speaker 1: they've got thirty four points. Wakefield are second. And that's
Speaker 1: why John is so interested in the game and I
Speaker 1: am too, to be fair, and that's why so many
Speaker 1: people want to go to the DIY Kitchen Stadium to
Speaker 1: see if Wakefield, who've also played twenty one games, can
Speaker 1: get level with Leads in the top position by beating
Speaker 1: them next week. And they will only stay second because
Speaker 1: their points difference is quite significantly, well, it's almost less
Speaker 1: half less of what half of what Leeds have. Wigan
Speaker 1: Warriors are in third. They've played twenty one they're on
Speaker 1: thirty two points with Wakefield, so they're keeping the pressure
Speaker 1: on Wakefield. Warrington drop off because they're in fourth, but
Speaker 1: they've only played twenty remember and they're on twenty eight points,
Speaker 1: so there's a four point gap between them and Wigan,
Speaker 1: and if they win their game in hand, they will
Speaker 1: go within two points, but they'd play Hokyton Rovers who
Speaker 1: were in fifth just below them, who've only played twenty
Speaker 1: games and they're on twenty six so when that game
Speaker 1: is played sometime in twenty ninety nine, Warrington could go
Speaker 1: two points behind Wigan and Hooking or Hunkingston Rovers could
Speaker 1: go level with Warrington and they would overtake Warrington if
Speaker 1: that happens, because they've got a better forum against Lee.
Speaker 1: Leopards are in six. They've played the full compliment and
Speaker 1: are on twenty six as well, so they're another team
Speaker 1: breeding down the neck of Warrington. Saint Helens are outside
Speaker 1: the playoff spot still, their twenty one games has seen
Speaker 1: them get twenty four points. Catalans are in eighth and
Speaker 1: they've got eighteen points from the full complement of games
Speaker 1: to lose. Their French neighbors are in ninth and are
Speaker 1: four points below them, having played the full compliment like
Speaker 1: everyone else has. Now they've got fourteen points. York Knights
Speaker 1: on fourteen, Castleford on fourteen, so tightly contesting ninth, tenth
Speaker 1: and eleventh at the moment. Bradford Bulls in twelfth with
Speaker 1: twelve points, all left c in thirteenth with ten and
Speaker 1: because of Huldersfield's back to back wins, they are still
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the ladder, but they're only two
Speaker 1: points behind Hull FC, although it must be said their
Speaker 1: points difference is going to cause them some issues. So
Speaker 1: John have never taken that long to read out a ladder,
Speaker 1: so hopefully you've got some some some research done in
Speaker 1: that time. You tell me what you want to start
Speaker 1: about talking about whether you want to do the top
Speaker 1: bottom first?
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll start. We'll start at the top. Obviously, as
Speaker 3: you mentioned, leads top there by two points and then
Speaker 3: it's Wakefield and Wigan both on is that thirty how many.
Speaker 2: Points of thirty two? Thirty two? Yeah?
Speaker 3: So I mean I think key Elman here is what
Speaker 3: Leeds point difference over both We're going to Wakefield is
Speaker 3: two hundred and still buy Yeah, so I mean yeah,
Speaker 3: a lot of it I think is going to boil, well,
Speaker 3: not all of it, but a lot of it is
Speaker 3: going to build them. This result of their next game
Speaker 3: this Friday night actually.
Speaker 1: Left for all teams twenty one how many How many
Speaker 1: games did he play at the end it's.
Speaker 3: Twenty seven, so there's six games for most teams. But
Speaker 3: obviously this is also key. You've got Warrington and who
Speaker 3: kW with seven games, so they've obviously got that game
Speaker 3: against but well Leeds have got Wakefield at home, Lee, sorry,
Speaker 3: Wakefield away, Lee at home, York away, Saint Helen's away,
Speaker 3: Wigan at home, which is also I think a massive,
Speaker 3: massive game our second last game of regular season, and
Speaker 3: then Hull of C at home. So look, I think Wakefield,
Speaker 3: Lee and Wigan and they're all very tough games and
Speaker 3: can go either way. I think you know they're going
Speaker 3: to beat Saint Helens away. I think they're going to
Speaker 3: be a home. I think they probably beat York away
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 1: One of the dangers for Leeds, John is that they
Speaker 1: have lost a couple of games this year to teams
Speaker 1: where we've gone, how the hell did that happen? I
Speaker 1: e two weeks ago when we sat on here and
Speaker 1: said there's no chance Castle beat them. So they have
Speaker 1: got that in them and I think one of the
Speaker 1: reasons is that their defense isn't unpenetrable and not know,
Speaker 1: it's very hard to make an unpenetrable and unpenetrable I'll
Speaker 1: put unpenetrated defense in in rugby league full stop because
Speaker 1: of the rules et cetera. But they do have some
Speaker 1: achilles heels there that some teams are found. So whereas
Speaker 1: we'll see of those six games is two that we
Speaker 1: think are in the balance. It's not beyond the realms
Speaker 1: that a third one could be in the balance somewhere too.
Speaker 3: I think I think there's three games there, Wakefield, Lee
Speaker 3: and Wigan. Games are all very tough games, but I
Speaker 3: think in a Fortnite they've got Wakefield and the league
Speaker 3: if they win both of those games, and they do
Speaker 3: have that that second last one against Wigan which could
Speaker 3: be a title illegal leader Shield decided. But I think
Speaker 3: they win those the next Fortnite back to back, they'll
Speaker 3: be breathing a lot easier. They've got a couple of
Speaker 3: injuries by it, and they've still got you know, they've
Speaker 3: been very lucky with injuries all this year, and they've
Speaker 3: got a few you know, likes of Cevo out but.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, they are still a very good shout too.
Speaker 1: And the other thing to John, the the playoff system.
Speaker 1: You get a massive advantage if your top two, don't
Speaker 1: you especially the same.
Speaker 3: You want to finish top two, So Wigan I think
Speaker 3: at third at the moment, the same with Wakefield, like
Speaker 3: you know, you want you want to finished top to
Speaker 3: get another trophy, and there's a bit of I think
Speaker 3: it might be one hundred grand or there's a bit
Speaker 3: of money involved, but it is really one or two.
Speaker 2: Is it's what you want now.
Speaker 1: It's a bit more significant this year because everybody's played
Speaker 1: each other home and away. The only variable is that
Speaker 1: there was that magic round. But ultimately, if you finish
Speaker 1: top this year, you can actually crow and say, look,
Speaker 1: we've played everybody, it's fair and we've finished top of
Speaker 1: the tree. We are literally the best team over the
Speaker 1: course of the year. Let's let's let's go in with
Speaker 1: confidence to the finals. So I do think the league
Speaker 1: leaders shield aside from the one hundred grand, aside from
Speaker 1: the fact that you finished top, I do think it
Speaker 1: holds a little bit more weight this year, but I
Speaker 1: wouldn't stress too much about it at the same time,
Speaker 1: So if if if they need to rest some players,
Speaker 1: if they need to get through this period, Leeds fans
Speaker 1: should expect that they might not finish top as well.
Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, I think that'll make that decision
Speaker 3: closer too, because obviously with Wigans second last game, yeah
Speaker 3: that's that's a really big game at home.
Speaker 2: But then they've got hol of seat in the last game.
Speaker 3: So you think, you know, if they've signed up before
Speaker 3: the last round our resting players. But you look at
Speaker 3: Wakefield's lineup, so I think this is a really tough
Speaker 3: run home. They've obviously got Leeds at home, they've got
Speaker 3: some helens at home, and they've got Wigan away, who've
Speaker 3: beaten them a couple of times this season. They've got
Speaker 3: York at home, they've got Warrington at home, and they've
Speaker 3: got Lee away in the last round. So you know,
Speaker 3: I think in the current form they beat some hellmon's,
Speaker 3: they beat York, they probably beat Warrington Lee. That's a
Speaker 3: tough game. But you know, again Warrington, I don't think
Speaker 3: it will be an easy game. We're going away and yeah,
Speaker 3: this this Leeds game, so you know what, Wakefield can
Speaker 3: make history with the best finish in Donkeys years. So
Speaker 3: it's a really you know, they've won I'm not sure
Speaker 3: exactly how many games in a road they've won now,
Speaker 3: but it's seven or eight or they've you know, they've
Speaker 3: been on a great run for a while. And then
Speaker 3: we look at Wigan. So they've got to loose at home,
Speaker 3: which I think, you know, should be two points. They've
Speaker 3: got Bradford away which should be two points. They've got
Speaker 3: Wakefield at home, which will be a hard game. They've
Speaker 3: got KR at home, which looking at form, i'd probably
Speaker 3: you know we're going to be favorites in that game.
Speaker 2: And they've got Leads.
Speaker 3: Away and they've got Catalans at home, so I think
Speaker 3: that's an easier potentially run home, but by no means
Speaker 3: are given either. And then Warrington with the extra game,
Speaker 3: they've got Braadford at home, York at home, Whole car
Speaker 3: Away on that Tuesday night, hardest Field at home, half
Speaker 3: c away, Wakefield, Trinity away and to Loose at home.
Speaker 3: So look, I think you know we'll go through a
Speaker 3: whole car Leans and Alan's. But I think the six
Speaker 3: isn't going to change. I think that maybe the I
Speaker 3: think the order will change, but I don't think St
Speaker 3: Helens will will get back into six.
Speaker 2: I could be wrong, But.
Speaker 1: So to summarize that top three, I think each team
Speaker 1: has two or three pivotal fixtures. If what was on
Speaker 1: the rest goal we form, they played each other. All
Speaker 1: we're trying to work out there is what the order
Speaker 1: of those top three will be. I don't think Warrington,
Speaker 1: I don't think okay, I don't think Lee will penetrate
Speaker 1: that so I think I think the top three is secured.
Speaker 3: It's that running of Warrington, Whole Care and Lee. So
Speaker 3: who plays you know, who plays third and who gets
Speaker 3: the home which is obviously crucial because you'd want to
Speaker 3: it's third, or play sixth and fourth or played fifth,
Speaker 3: but you'd want to finish either a third or forced
Speaker 3: to get the home tie. So that's right, that was
Speaker 3: Warrington Whole Car. I've got cast Away Catlans at home,
Speaker 3: Warrington at home to loose at home, we're going away,
Speaker 3: how to s Field at home in St Helens away,
Speaker 3: So you think, okay, are big cast big callans Warranton.
Speaker 2: They've already just played cast not Whole Care. Not for all.
Speaker 2: I thought you said Warrington them. I thought you said Warrington. Sorry.
Speaker 2: So they've got Warranton at home, which would be a
Speaker 2: difficult game. They've got to lose at home.
Speaker 3: You think they'd be We're going away, very tough game,
Speaker 3: hard to spield at home. I know, hardest field the improving,
Speaker 3: but you think the Robins get that. And then Saint
Speaker 3: Helen's away, which I'd be back on this year. I'd
Speaker 3: be back in Car, but you know, could improve. And
Speaker 3: then you've got Lee, who've got York at home, Leeds away,
Speaker 3: Bradford at home, Field how to Spield away, Sat Helen's
Speaker 3: at home, and Wakefield at home. So fairly there's some
Speaker 3: difficult games in their Leeds Wakefield yeah, I mean we'll
Speaker 3: they have been on an amazing run up until last
Speaker 3: Friday night, but I think, you know, I don't think
Speaker 3: that'll dent them too much. And then Saint Helen's it's
Speaker 3: a big game for them this Thursday. They've got all
Speaker 3: left Ce at home and I think they probably NEEDFC.
Speaker 3: They've got Wakefield away, which is that's the Harry Roberts
Speaker 3: and Derby that's going to be spicy. They've got Cast
Speaker 3: at home, which he'd probably backed them to beat Cast.
Speaker 3: They got Leeds at home, which wouldn't be backing them
Speaker 3: the beat Leeds. They've got Lee away, which again I'd
Speaker 3: probably be leaning towards Lee that game, excuse me. And
Speaker 3: then you've got a whole k R at home, which
Speaker 3: is also a tough game. So Saint Helen's what are
Speaker 3: they going to need to win? Probably four of that six,
Speaker 3: maybe five, I don't know, it really will depend obviously
Speaker 3: what leean Okay, I do as well, so.
Speaker 1: You mentioned Harry Robertson Darby. For those who don't know,
Speaker 1: including myself, what does that mean.
Speaker 3: I'm alluding to the brew hah of a couple of
Speaker 3: months ago when there was a story that Wakefield had
Speaker 3: a been rejected for Harry Robertson, and then Wakefield confirmed that,
Speaker 3: and then Saint Helens that's right, Yeah, got quite shitty
Speaker 3: and reported them to the RFL. So there had been
Speaker 3: no contact, and then Darryl Powell said why they so touchy?
Speaker 2: So will be the first time they've played since.
Speaker 3: Then, and obviously Saint Allen's I did a feature on
Speaker 3: them in the Eye on Saturday's paper. Yeah, it just
Speaker 3: sort of looked at what's happened on and off the
Speaker 3: field basically in the last four years and how historically
Speaker 3: the most successful club and super League is now on
Speaker 3: the brink of.
Speaker 1: Missing the playoffs for the first time. And you know
Speaker 1: they're trending downwards. Shane Helens, I mean they've just your
Speaker 1: lost to York.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, they've been trending down. I think, well,
Speaker 3: you can look at the table. They've been trending down
Speaker 3: for several years. They've beat Penrith in Penrith in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty three, which was a great result that season Paul
Speaker 3: Wellans first year, they were one win from the Grand
Speaker 3: Final James Roby retired, and then the following year, trying
Speaker 3: to think we we're twenty twenty four, I think they
Speaker 3: lost to Warrington by a point or it was a
Speaker 3: very close game, so there.
Speaker 2: Were two wins from the Grand Final.
Speaker 3: And then last year they were beaten by whole Kr
Speaker 3: so they were one win from the Grand finals again
Speaker 3: and obviously Paul Wells was sacked. But the thing is
Speaker 3: all right, this and the piece. It's not just all
Speaker 3: about the on field, it's what's gone off the field.
Speaker 3: And I think a key point is they won four
Speaker 3: titles in a row between twenty nineteen and twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: which was amazing achievement, but they didn't capitalize on that achievement.
Speaker 2: They've never really they're quite an insuller club.
Speaker 3: They're never really in the way that we can have,
Speaker 3: or Leeds have and even Warrington have without the the
Speaker 3: ultimate success. They've tried to build their profile and make
Speaker 3: themselves more relevant nationally. Sinne Allan's have never done that
Speaker 3: for whatever reason, and I think that's why their crowds
Speaker 3: have remained stagnant or even dropped off a little bit.
Speaker 3: And I think this is what people some people don't realize.
Speaker 3: In the modern sporting world, it's more than just the
Speaker 3: on the field. It's the match day experience. It's the merch,
Speaker 3: it's the it's the way you market your club. It's
Speaker 3: it's being more transparent and can hearts and minds. It
Speaker 3: is hard some minds to use the Vietnam War American
Speaker 3: expression it's and that works well for the Yanks. But no,
Speaker 3: I mean, you can look at Vegas, you can look
Speaker 3: at you know, Wigan. We're playing in Barcelona, in Vegas
Speaker 3: and in Paris and they're going to Dublin and St.
Speaker 3: Helens are not back playing in Vegas twice because it
Speaker 3: costs too much money. Now is that a lack of ambition?
Speaker 3: Is it a lack of I don't know, but I
Speaker 3: think there's a lot of St Allans fans aren't happy
Speaker 3: with what's been going on at the club. And you know,
Speaker 3: you look at you can look at Paul Rolie signing,
Speaker 3: you can look at a lot of the recruitment decisions.
Speaker 3: You know the fact that all of the best juniors
Speaker 3: in the area have been snapped up by Wigan and Warrington. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it's a tough period for for Sint Hellens.
Speaker 3: They're looking to pay some players out now. I know
Speaker 3: I broke the story the other day with the winger
Speaker 3: Lewis Murphy. They've given him a three year extension and
Speaker 3: they're looking to offload him to another club. So I
Speaker 3: think that's another sign of some decisions that they've made,
Speaker 3: which they're probably I think.
Speaker 1: I think the contrast just over the billing hill in
Speaker 1: terms of a pathway for juniors in the Wigan district,
Speaker 1: but also in terms of a scouting network. I mean
Speaker 1: there's players who come through the Wigan system who didn't
Speaker 1: grow up in Wigans. So the difference in the way
Speaker 1: they're doing things at the moment is like chalk and cheese.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think sirt Ellen's in recent years
Speaker 3: have done well getting you know, the best kids out
Speaker 3: of Witness to come and play for them. But I think,
Speaker 3: you know, they're losing many leads to Pingji, they lost
Speaker 3: Morganoles to the Dolphins at the end of the last year,
Speaker 3: the James Roby retirement. I think you know they've they
Speaker 3: just don't seem to have brought through the next generation
Speaker 3: as well or as quickly as they could. And you
Speaker 3: know the Tristan Sailor signing, the Jackson Haysten signing, you know,
Speaker 3: the players that they're brought in from Salford that hasn't
Speaker 3: really worked McDonald right shoreks. Yeah, there's there's there's lots
Speaker 3: of things at that club, and I think, yeah, it
Speaker 3: is a very insular club the way it's run. I
Speaker 3: think the point that was made to me and which
Speaker 3: I closed my piece was there's no windows in the
Speaker 3: boardroom at Saint Helen's. Now you can read it too
Speaker 3: that you can read into that in many ways, but
Speaker 3: I'm told that is a fact, there is no windows.
Speaker 3: So I think they need to evolve as a club
Speaker 3: and as a as a sporting institution. So you think
Speaker 3: they need to get windows at the directors in the
Speaker 3: windows find out that it's twenty twenty six and you
Speaker 3: don't run a club N nine eighty six.
Speaker 2: Yeah, those kind of things. Yeah, maybe the any of
Speaker 2: the time machine in there too, Yeah, the tartlets that helped.
Speaker 2: What else have we got? So that was the top six.
Speaker 2: We can go through the Wooden Spoon.
Speaker 3: So first we've got hr left C's fixtures, so they've
Speaker 3: got Senate this Thursday, which is quite an important game.
Speaker 2: They go away to Saint Helens and I think, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I'm sure the book is will be putting their
Speaker 3: money on Saint Helens, and I'll be putting you.
Speaker 1: Put your money on say Ellen's and the Mini. You
Speaker 1: definitely wouldn't. You definitely wouldn't put it on whole KR.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be putting on a half of C. I
Speaker 1: think they've lost.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how many in a row, or it's
Speaker 3: something like they've they've won one of their last thirteen
Speaker 3: or twelve their last Thurday like it's it's a horrendous
Speaker 3: run and they were pretty poor against Hosfield. Then they've
Speaker 3: then got cast at home, which you don't know if
Speaker 3: cassipate their meds before the game, but I'll probably be
Speaker 3: back cast in that. Then they go away to cat Lands,
Speaker 3: which haven't been great, but it's an away trip and
Speaker 3: it's it's never usually an easy place to play in
Speaker 3: the South of France.
Speaker 2: And if.
Speaker 1: There's an unhappy dressing room for whatever reason, it's probably
Speaker 1: best not to stick them on an iron bird to
Speaker 1: the South of France and give them a few days.
Speaker 2: Joe, maybe we'll be pretty fired up.
Speaker 1: Get unless the players all get together on lapis in
Speaker 1: Catalans and fly over there a bit early, that might help,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then they've got Warrington at home obviously Warranton looking
Speaker 3: to cement their six spot, so be back in Warrington.
Speaker 3: And then they go away again to Friends to lose,
Speaker 3: which to loose beat them did nail in the season,
Speaker 3: so I then you can right off Olympic. And then
Speaker 3: they're away to Headingly at Leeds. Yeah, I mean Leeds
Speaker 3: might need to win that game to cement the lay
Speaker 3: leader shield, so that's a pretty tough run. And then
Speaker 3: we look at Haddersfield. They've got Catalans at home this Saturday,
Speaker 3: which I think feel a big, big chance. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 3: Then they got away to to lose, which you know,
Speaker 3: not the hardest game, but not an easy game either.
Speaker 1: If they've won three straight and then go to to lose,
Speaker 1: that could be perfect, yeah, exactly, exactly a lot of
Speaker 1: confidence going over there. And then they're away at Warrington,
Speaker 1: which I think is a difficult game. They're at home
Speaker 1: against Lee, which won't be an easy game obviously, LIAH
Speaker 1: fighting for their best finals position. They go away to
Speaker 1: whole KR as well on Friday of September, which that'll
Speaker 1: be a tough game, and then they're at home in
Speaker 1: the last game of season against cass which I think
Speaker 1: is a is a winnable game. So I think the
Speaker 1: Hottest Field have gotten slightly easier run home, but of
Speaker 1: course they do have to well, they probably have to
Speaker 1: get two more wins, don't know, as you mentioned the
Speaker 1: points difference, so they only have to get one more
Speaker 1: win and then they have to get two. So no,
Speaker 1: they only need one more win than they need to,
Speaker 1: but they need to get two more wins themselves.
Speaker 2: I think, what's the point of difference. I'm just looking
Speaker 2: at the table.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, they need to get they need to
Speaker 1: finish ahead of a LEFC one points. So but based
Speaker 1: on the running, I'd be confident. If I was a
Speaker 1: Huddersfield person, I'd go, yeah, they're there. Their their club,
Speaker 1: the inner walls of their club have now been unleashed.
Speaker 1: They are they are going to be Antenna's up basically,
Speaker 1: and a season that just felt like it was going
Speaker 1: through the motions ready to get to twenty twenty seven,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden could have come back to life
Speaker 1: six Grand Finals for Huddersfield.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the pressure is is massive because you look at
Speaker 3: Hole they are a big club, big fan base, and
Speaker 3: that fan base is very unhappy. Now they go to
Speaker 3: the Hands and lose and then Haddersfield, you know their
Speaker 3: tails are up. Well we win against cat Lanes at
Speaker 3: home and we're tired on points and then that just
Speaker 3: ramps up the pressure even more on Holle. So this round,
Speaker 3: this next game I think is huge for both those
Speaker 3: two clubs.
Speaker 2: Are results.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the hart oft See can go to Saint
Speaker 3: Helen's and get a win. Then the before hard To
Speaker 3: still play their four points out and that gives them.
Speaker 3: That turns the table a little bit. So yeah, it's juicy.
Speaker 3: It's a juicy game.
Speaker 2: Rugby League tweet of the of the week.
Speaker 1: Rugby League on TV dot Com roll seventy five days
Speaker 1: to the Rugby League World Cup, so I assume it's
Speaker 1: seventy two or something now, Still no idea who'll show
Speaker 1: it here and there? I think Rugby League on TV
Speaker 1: dot com means the UK. But Andrew Voss looks set
Speaker 1: to be the league commentator for Holks broadcaster Channel seven
Speaker 1: in Australia. Let's talk about the World Cup, John and
Speaker 1: the fact no desiems to know about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a bit worrying.
Speaker 3: And we had a question about the World Cup which
Speaker 3: will come back to or come to our question section
Speaker 3: a bit.
Speaker 2: It's a bit worrying.
Speaker 3: So we've got basically almost two months to the World
Speaker 3: Cup kicks off, and are we hearing anything about it?
Speaker 3: I mean, I know there's the occasional story and the
Speaker 3: occasional tweet and whatever, and I know that earlier this
Speaker 3: week there was the I'm not sure did you see
Speaker 3: the Channel seven ad to with Daniel McPherson the foremost Yes, yes, yeah,
Speaker 3: And did you see the drama over because they used
Speaker 3: a lot of sort of footage of soccer Roose fans,
Speaker 3: which I thought was I mean, I didn't like that
Speaker 3: personally because I think I think the World Cup we've
Speaker 3: got enough World Cup history.
Speaker 2: The Rugul League.
Speaker 3: World Cup's been going for almost one hundred years, you know,
Speaker 3: and we've had fantastic moments, whether it be Clive Sullivan
Speaker 3: scoring the winning try for GB in was a seventy
Speaker 3: I think it was seventy seventy two seventy two and
Speaker 3: it was seventy or seventy two. The first World was
Speaker 3: nineteen fifty four. Yeah, you know, we've got there's plenty
Speaker 3: of moments, whether it be you know, Tonga in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 3: you know, the ninety four, the eighty eight, you know
Speaker 3: World Cups with GB and.
Speaker 1: Ninety two World Cup final at Wembley eight ten to
Speaker 1: four I think it was or ten six. Ninety five
Speaker 1: Centennary World Cup New Zealand n will be Australia in
Speaker 1: the semi final.
Speaker 3: New Zealand winning in two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Two thousands Wales really troubled Australia. Yeah, I mean there's plenty. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I didn't really like that using other sports to
Speaker 1: kind of but apart from that, at least from the
Speaker 1: UK side, there's hardly been anything and that for me,
Speaker 1: we don't have a broadcaster yet for this part of
Speaker 1: the world. It's great the Channel seven is picking up
Speaker 1: in Australia, though I remember in twenty seventeen they weren't
Speaker 1: necessarily the greatest broadcaster, but I think it's better to
Speaker 1: have another broadcast who doesn't who isn't into the sport
Speaker 1: to get involved because you obviously Channel nine and Fox.
Speaker 3: Have the the dominance.
Speaker 1: There's so much to analyze here, right, and I think
Speaker 1: we need to separate the two countries because the Australian
Speaker 1: market is very different to the British market.
Speaker 2: There's yes, there's there's.
Speaker 1: We tend to clump them together because we think about
Speaker 1: rugby league, but they're actually very different markets. And this
Speaker 1: is going to be the danger of anybody from Australia
Speaker 1: going to UK and vice versa. So let's look at
Speaker 1: the UK side of things first, because there's probably no
Speaker 1: broadcaster locked in yet, there's actually nobody who's probably that
Speaker 1: bothered about promoting it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well promote what you don't have a right
Speaker 2: do you? That's right? That's right.
Speaker 1: So Channel seven, even though they've made a wholics of it,
Speaker 1: they have a vested interest in a lot of people
Speaker 1: looking at Channel seven in October when nobody else is
Speaker 1: thinking about rugby league, right, So they have a vested
Speaker 1: interest and this is what gets missed quite often when
Speaker 1: we talk about TV rights things in Australia. They've just
Speaker 1: announced a record rights deal, but part of that deal
Speaker 1: will be contra for Fox advertising rugby league via a
Speaker 1: twenty four hour new Rugby League channel via social media
Speaker 1: channels etc. And Channel nine the same Channel nine's YouTube,
Speaker 1: for example, is excellent and some of their content, their
Speaker 1: peripheral content is excellent. So in the UK right now,
Speaker 1: there's nobody who's got that interest. Secondly, we've had a
Speaker 1: pathetic attempt at winning the Ashes not that long ago,
Speaker 1: so I would argue that interest in the UK in general.
Speaker 1: For England traveling to Australia, England haven't won anything in Australia.
Speaker 1: Saying no will have won one game. They we won
Speaker 1: one game full stop in the last twenty years. They
Speaker 1: haven't won a series in Australia since nineteen seventy, so
Speaker 1: you can understand why it's a bit hard to generate
Speaker 1: that in Australia. I dare say not many people know
Speaker 1: about the World Cup. I wrote an article for Zero
Speaker 1: Tackle last week and said if one hundred people were
Speaker 1: stopped on the Trust Street and said do you know
Speaker 1: there's a World Cup on this year, a lot of
Speaker 1: people probably wouldn't know.
Speaker 2: And that's just in Brisbane and Sydney and which are
Speaker 2: rugby league heartlands.
Speaker 1: And that again, if you look at the other side
Speaker 1: of the coin, apathy towards international rugby league from Australia.
Speaker 2: They've won.
Speaker 1: I think there's been soeventeen World Cups and they've won
Speaker 1: fifteen of them or fourteen of them. They won every
Speaker 1: World Cup between nineteen seventy five and two thousand and
Speaker 1: eight a night.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they won every World Cup after they Asnyah.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, you can understand it. Okay.
Speaker 1: Now they've got sixty seven thousand followers on Instagram for
Speaker 1: the Rugby League World Cup, so there is an interest,
Speaker 1: and I think a lot of the interest over here
Speaker 1: comes from Samoan and Tongan fans and people who want
Speaker 1: to watch that fixture and brag about that rivalry. So
Speaker 1: when Salmoa did so well at the last World Cup,
Speaker 1: the airport was packed when they got back. I think
Speaker 1: it was to Sydney and even Brisbane fans were parading
Speaker 1: on the streets and whatnot. Also, Australia is more of
Speaker 1: a rusted on rugby league market. They could do no
Speaker 1: marketing at all and the stadiums will still get relatively
Speaker 1: good crowds. The play game in Townsville for exams, they'll
Speaker 1: turn up, play the game in Wollongong, they'll turn up.
Speaker 1: Perth is a little bit of a different Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think that's forgiven. I don't think that's a given
Speaker 1: because I think a lot of rugby league people when
Speaker 1: it comes to November November, you know, they turn on
Speaker 1: the cricket or they switch off. So I think this
Speaker 1: is there's not many some Owen and Tongum fans turn
Speaker 1: on cricket, John and that's the difference and the fundamental
Speaker 1: There's not a million of them in Australia either there
Speaker 1: but the but a lot of them are focused on
Speaker 1: rugby league.
Speaker 3: They're not going to go and see England VP and Gene.
Speaker 3: They're not going to go and see FIJIV cook Lands.
Speaker 3: We need we need to have a proper strategy that
Speaker 3: goes on, not just at the end of the NRL season.
Speaker 3: We actually need to get our house and gee because
Speaker 3: this happens. I mean, I think the last World Cup
Speaker 3: they did actually in England, they did start marketing a
Speaker 3: lot earlier and things and up. But I think we
Speaker 3: need to, you know, we really really need to lift
Speaker 3: our gang if we want the international game to be
Speaker 3: s and I think it is. I think there's going
Speaker 3: to be some great Games of the World Cup like England,
Speaker 3: p and G England, tong Are, Australia, New Zealand, Tonga, Samoa,
Speaker 3: you know, the feed Gene team.
Speaker 2: I think there's going to be some some fantastic games,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I think Lebanon could be quite strong, depending on who
Speaker 3: makes them self available. You know, is it is it
Speaker 3: Moses is a Dewey, et cetera twelve. But you know,
Speaker 3: we've got we've got to promote it properly, and particularly
Speaker 3: in the UK. You know, I use the analogy with
Speaker 3: the Comwealth Games and you're in Australia, so I don't know.
Speaker 3: Probably because Australia is winning more medals than anyone else,
Speaker 3: it's probably getting a lot of media coverage in the UK.
Speaker 2: I don't even know. I think it maybe it's on
Speaker 2: tn T, but I've not seen a second of it.
Speaker 3: Like all I've seen, I think is that Madelon McCain's
Speaker 3: brother is swimming for for gb or for Scotland or something.
Speaker 3: I've not seen a second of it. Like I think
Speaker 3: it's it's completely niche. And that's the worry with the
Speaker 3: World Cup. Is that written in to push it out?
Speaker 3: We know from our ashes Rugby League Podcast. Last year
Speaker 3: we started that I think in March leading up to
Speaker 3: the and our numbers were steady and there you die hard.
Speaker 3: They're the ones who were watching the old YouTube, just
Speaker 3: like you and I. But as soon as the ashes
Speaker 3: started the numbers tripled. And it was literally after the
Speaker 3: first fixture the numbers of listeners to our podcast tripled.
Speaker 3: And I think that speaks to the modern fan now
Speaker 3: in terms of the compartmentalized quite a lot. And it's
Speaker 3: an RL obsessed now for example maybe or whatever obsessed
Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden they'll switch to something else.
Speaker 3: So real big challenges for the Rugby League World Cup.
Speaker 3: Next thing, Johnny tweet of the week. I think we're
Speaker 3: going to clash over this a bit. This is the
Speaker 3: beauty of the MRL your role. Last year the top
Speaker 3: four teams were Canberra, Melbourne, Brisbane and Canterbury, Newcastle, Wodwood
Speaker 3: and Spoon. This year the top four is Penrith, Roosters,
Speaker 3: Warriors and Sharks. Newcastle are in six, Brisbane are in fourteenth.
Speaker 3: Turnarounds can be swift and massive. My question to you,
Speaker 3: John is why is that beautiful? I say it's beautiful
Speaker 3: from the neutral standpoint that going into most weeks, most games,
Speaker 3: not all, but the competitive competitiveness is very high and
Speaker 3: you don't know who's going to win and your team.
Speaker 3: If you are a team, say you're a Knights fan,
Speaker 3: you know you've had a pretty well. Knights fans had
Speaker 3: a horrible year the last year. The year before that,
Speaker 3: I think they finished maybe six or seventh. They snuck
Speaker 3: into the Semis. But there are much changed team this
Speaker 3: year and even without you know, two of the better
Speaker 3: players with injury, they one on the weekend.
Speaker 2: And they're going to be back in the finals. And
Speaker 2: I think the beauty for me at the NRL, you know.
Speaker 3: Brisbane Broncos win the comp last year, they're absolutely dogshit
Speaker 3: this year. Melbourne Storm. You know, I've been up there
Speaker 3: for a long long time having their worst year and
Speaker 3: probably twenty thirty years. I think it's good, you know,
Speaker 3: much like the NFL or the NBA, where you get
Speaker 3: these changes around in in performances, in finishes each year,
Speaker 3: because it keeps things interesting, it keeps entertaining, I think,
Speaker 3: and I know the Premier League does have a high
Speaker 3: level of competitiveness and there are a lot of changes,
Speaker 3: but for many, many years, or many decades you had
Speaker 3: a kind of fixed four or five clubs, and obviously
Speaker 3: Man City came in and changed that, and before that
Speaker 3: it was Chelsea. But you know, you had Man you
Speaker 3: you had Arsenal, you had Liverpool and I know lester
Speaker 3: of I know there's changes, but I think because we have,
Speaker 3: much like the American sports, a salary cap, and everyone
Speaker 3: spends the salary cap. I'm lock in Super League. Everyone
Speaker 3: gets the same money and spends it. It's a much
Speaker 3: more even competition, right. My opinion is beauty is very
Speaker 3: much in the eye of the beholder. The I think
Speaker 3: some of the reasons that some of those teams have
Speaker 3: dropped significantly is because we don't have a fair draw,
Speaker 3: so you don't play everybody home and away. So the
Speaker 3: draw has an awful lot to do with it. The
Speaker 3: turnarounds have a lot to do with it. The salary
Speaker 3: cap puts a squeeze on you. If you've been successful
Speaker 3: one year, you're actually forced to offload some players quite often,
Speaker 3: which I like. Like I said, beauty is in the
Speaker 3: eye of the beholder. I'll let you speak and I
Speaker 3: didn't even interrupt you want, so you're now going to
Speaker 3: let me speak and also what happened was the rules
Speaker 3: got changed quite significantly, in fact, very significantly, a matter
Speaker 3: of weeks before the tournament, before the competition started. And
Speaker 3: to put that in some kind of context, if you
Speaker 3: recruit in a certain way for years and then all
Speaker 3: of a sudden the rules changed to the point where
Speaker 3: the fundamental fabric of the game changes quite significantly, that
Speaker 3: can be a real shock to the system. We are
Speaker 3: a salary cap sport, so we manipulate that that's manufactured.
Speaker 3: We're now looking at rules to manufacture to try and
Speaker 3: get the game to stop blowing out as much. And
Speaker 3: that's why we are trialing in the NRL in the
Speaker 3: last three, three or four rounds where there's dead rubber games,
Speaker 3: the kickoff rule. I'm glad you mentioned the English Premier
Speaker 3: League because there's a very big difference between the English
Speaker 3: Premier League and the NRL and the Super League, and
Speaker 3: it's every number associated with it in terms of dollars
Speaker 3: and pounds, in terms of viewing figures, in terms of attendancies.
Speaker 3: Now you might think, or anybody might think, world, there's
Speaker 3: more money in that game and everything else. In nineteen
Speaker 3: ninety two, ninety three, ninety four, they were almost on
Speaker 3: paroity English English football. English rugby league was the second
Speaker 3: most popular sport in terms of viewers and in terms
Speaker 3: of attendance in the country, and the NRL didn't exist.
Speaker 2: It was the ARL. But everything was successful.
Speaker 1: So we've lost in theory in the last thirty five years,
Speaker 1: and we have a competition that's manufactured. So, like I said,
Speaker 1: not everybody plays everybody twice. We have an origin period
Speaker 1: where for about two months now, because of the physical
Speaker 1: impacts of the game, because of those rule changes I've
Speaker 1: discussed as well because of the training methods, two months
Speaker 1: of our competition gets absolutely obliterated, and none more so.
Speaker 1: There's no result that stands out more than the one
Speaker 1: that the Cowboys got last week. And we also have
Speaker 1: a final series where they're even looking at extending that
Speaker 1: to ten, even though there's a century of data that
Speaker 1: suggests that if you don't finish in the top four,
Speaker 1: you don't win the competition. So there's an awful lot
Speaker 1: of manufacturing going on John that personally I don't like.
Speaker 2: So beauty is very.
Speaker 1: Much in the eye of the beholder, but I like
Speaker 1: to peel it back and look at why, why, Why
Speaker 1: have Newcastle gone up so much this year. Well, they've
Speaker 1: got a decent coach and also and also the rules
Speaker 1: probably benefit their team, and they've got a coach who's
Speaker 1: gone these are the qualities of my players, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: let them free. I'm gonna unleash them. And if the
Speaker 1: competition was trending upwards in the sense that to beat
Speaker 1: the best you had to get better as opposed to
Speaker 1: the best getting worse, it'd be a lot harder to
Speaker 1: fly from the bottom to the top. Brisbane Broncos, if
Speaker 1: you look at their last four years, it shouldn't be
Speaker 1: a surprise because they got to the twenty twenty three
Speaker 1: Grand Final, got within a b's appendage of winning that one.
Speaker 1: The year after they tanked and didn't make the finals
Speaker 1: and Kevy Walter's got sacked. Last year they won the
Speaker 1: Grand Final under Madge Approven winning coach. But I've used
Speaker 1: this phrase before, nothing fails like success. And look at
Speaker 1: the state of them this year, and the common denominator
Speaker 1: is the way they've recruited players over the years. So
Speaker 1: I actually don't think the It doesn't appeal to me
Speaker 1: that we get a competitive competition by making the best
Speaker 1: worse it just does not appeal to me. I think
Speaker 1: we need to make the best better and everyone needs
Speaker 1: to trend upward to try and beat those better teams.
Speaker 2: That was a long diatribe. Well it wasn't. How disrespectful
Speaker 2: is that one think? I think the easiest measurement.
Speaker 3: There's not one team that spends one hundred and ninety
Speaker 3: million on players and one that spends forty million. They
Speaker 3: all spent the most, which makes it a lot more
Speaker 3: even competitive. But yeah, so yeah, bring so yeah so so.
Speaker 3: I'll give you an analogy. You live on a street
Speaker 3: and the bloke three doors down owns earns forty grand
Speaker 3: a year. You earn four hundred grand a year. Because
Speaker 3: he earns forty grand a year, You've got to spend
Speaker 3: the same amount of money, and you're not allowed to
Speaker 3: spend your four hundred, You've got to spend forty. That's
Speaker 3: what I'm saying in the Premier League that the difference
Speaker 3: in wage bill makes it, you know, almost an impossible battle.
Speaker 2: That was my point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you've already said Lester did it one year. Also,
Speaker 1: look at the numbers, John, Look at the numbers. Look
Speaker 1: how many people want to watch it? Look how many
Speaker 1: people turn up to watch it.
Speaker 3: Every monk in my in my opinion, has not a
Speaker 3: fair is not a fair fight. But yeah, but as
Speaker 3: you said, is in the eye of beholder.
Speaker 2: Is in the eye of the beholding.
Speaker 1: Really my opinion, and it's my opinion too, And you
Speaker 1: were disrespectful and called it diatribe. Johnny's jab Super League
Speaker 1: TV coverage? What needs to change? I might challenge you here.
Speaker 1: I think it's fantastic.
Speaker 2: There you go. What you're coming up with now is diatribe.
Speaker 2: You didn't.
Speaker 1: You didn't argue back with me. You just said, oh,
Speaker 1: it's diatribe, disrespectful.
Speaker 2: Cool. I couldn't argue back. I'd fall asleep. Yeah, well
Speaker 2: I was again. You've been disrespectful again. What about the
Speaker 2: crap you came up with? Do you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 2: we can be as disrespectful as we want. So.
Speaker 3: I think my point about the TV coverage is I
Speaker 3: was watching again on Thursday night.
Speaker 2: On the other channels on Sky you had.
Speaker 3: I think there was an NBA talk show rerun, there
Speaker 3: was an NFL talk show, There was live tennis, live golf,
Speaker 3: I think it was the hundred, There was golf.
Speaker 2: Whatever else.
Speaker 3: The mode been darts and then obviously we had the
Speaker 3: Huddersfield left game. You had no pregame, you had no
Speaker 3: middle analysis, and then no postgame and it's just really
Speaker 3: poor production. I'm not blaming Sky because yeah, they've had
Speaker 3: their budgets cut and this is the deal that was made.
Speaker 3: But you know, there's talks about a new deal and
Speaker 3: whether it'll be every game, I'm not I'm not convinced
Speaker 3: showing every game live is a bonus, you know, a
Speaker 3: boon for the competition when there's a big difference in
Speaker 3: the full coverage that you get, you know, the two games.
Speaker 1: Also the games happen at the same time, so you
Speaker 1: have to make a choice.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yeah, And you know, I think it's just
Speaker 3: you know, they're not presented particularly well, and I think
Speaker 3: presentation matters. I think you know where they're scheduled, not
Speaker 3: just timing. You are one hundred percent right when you've
Speaker 3: got it against games competing each other, But on which
Speaker 3: channel they showed?
Speaker 2: Are they hidden away? Are they available? You know, are
Speaker 2: they marketed? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I'm just not convinced after a couple of years with
Speaker 3: had every game, tellsed whether what are the viewing figures
Speaker 3: like you don't get the viewing figures, so they Sky
Speaker 3: doesn't publish them.
Speaker 2: Super League the RFL doesn't show them.
Speaker 3: And then you you have to pay for a membership
Speaker 3: to the audience TV ratings things to actually get and
Speaker 3: also on the plus on the red button, you don't
Speaker 3: get particular ratings unless from Sky for those for those.
Speaker 1: Super League money from Sky is in has decreased, doesn't
Speaker 1: it over the last few TV deals basically.
Speaker 3: In about the last five years, it's basically half from
Speaker 3: from forty to about twenty one and a half billion.
Speaker 2: So if this goes up, it might be because more
Speaker 2: people are watching ULL be League. Well, the RFL came
Speaker 2: out with.
Speaker 3: A figure and an annual report that the average ratings
Speaker 3: have got up fifty percent.
Speaker 2: Now I don't know if that's true or not, that's
Speaker 2: what they're claiming.
Speaker 3: I know previously when we had only a couple of
Speaker 3: games that the ratings, I mean they vary greatly. You
Speaker 3: get games that were like maybe sixty thousand people. You
Speaker 3: get games so we're two hundred thousand. This is quite
Speaker 3: a few years ago, so there was a there was
Speaker 3: a big variation. But yeah, I just the plaid games
Speaker 3: with no pre game no post game, no, you know,
Speaker 3: just a static shot with the same terrible music or whatever.
Speaker 2: I just don't think that's a great look for the
Speaker 2: sport or for super Really, it.
Speaker 1: Happens a lot on KO over here, so they will
Speaker 1: they will take plenty of sports. So for example, the
Speaker 1: Sheffield Shield, they have the Sheffield Shield and the camera's
Speaker 1: basically there's one camera at one end, one camera at
Speaker 1: the other. Sometimes there's only one camera full stop and
Speaker 1: there's not much in terms of different angles. You certainly
Speaker 1: don't get the runout sideways angle or something like that.
Speaker 1: Then you certainly don't get snick or on whatnot. But
Speaker 1: if you want to watch Sheffield Shield you can. And
Speaker 1: in the ad breaks they'll quite often be screens that
Speaker 1: say there should be words the effect of there should
Speaker 1: be an advert here, but there isn't. Just enjoy the
Speaker 1: quiet time or something like that. And that also happened
Speaker 1: on SBS on the app for the World the fee
Speaker 1: for World Cup. And I think a big part of
Speaker 1: that is that advertisers are slowly waking up to the
Speaker 1: fact that these things are happening. But I do think
Speaker 1: I personally again think the future is in screening all
Speaker 1: the games and when there's more money coming in via advertising,
Speaker 1: when there's more money coming in via everything else, they'll
Speaker 1: be able to spend more on these things. And I
Speaker 1: do have a problem with the fact that all games
Speaker 1: are screened in the context of them playing at the
Speaker 1: same time, So that comes down to super League and
Speaker 1: they're scheduling. What can they do? What can they do
Speaker 1: to help that? Talking about super League and it's scheduling
Speaker 1: and whatnot. There is talk now, isn't there from well
Speaker 1: you and I had a chat about something, but also
Speaker 1: another couple of media organizations have hinted that the NRL
Speaker 1: and super League date deal may have moved to a
Speaker 1: significant stage or a.
Speaker 3: More year stage. There's only really rumors at this point.
Speaker 3: I've had nothing concrete. There was talk last week that
Speaker 3: there was going to be an offer presented. I'd heard
Speaker 3: from one source that there maybe a deal had been done,
Speaker 3: but I had no confirmation of that. So I can't
Speaker 3: say anything with any certainly or clarity.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it does.
Speaker 3: Seem like things are moving and happening. Yeah, one source,
Speaker 3: I said, you know that they're optimistic that something will
Speaker 3: be done. But again, I will see that. I will
Speaker 3: believe it when I see it, but yeah, it seemed
Speaker 3: to be keep very quiet in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: very high level talks.
Speaker 2: And it's not to have trickled down, shall we say
Speaker 2: somewhere it was written or said that a deal had.
Speaker 1: Actually been presented finally as well, so we probably need
Speaker 1: to put that on the record, I think if if
Speaker 1: indeed that is true drama in the wheelchair game. Yes,
Speaker 1: so I ran a story last week.
Speaker 3: There wasn't a lot of detas, but essentially Warrington had
Speaker 3: two games abandoned in quick succession, one against Witness, one
Speaker 3: against Salford. I believe in a Witness game there was
Speaker 3: a referee it was allegendly punched in an all in brawl.
Speaker 3: And then in Sulfur game, I believe there was a
Speaker 3: dispute over referee decision and the team walked off and yeah,
Speaker 3: that was also abandoned. And I've been hearing some other
Speaker 3: things about the wheelchair game late from a few people,
Speaker 3: so that it seems like it's not a part of
Speaker 3: rugula to gainst a lot of coverage, or had they
Speaker 3: any coverage, But there does seem to be a few
Speaker 3: issues cropping out behind the scenes, so it's not well
Speaker 3: says that in that sector.
Speaker 1: NRL we've mentioned the Cowboys defeat already, but so that
Speaker 1: was probably the big story this week. I didn't see
Speaker 1: the game because I was out working at a club
Speaker 1: and I had a big drive home and then I
Speaker 1: clicked on the NRL website and I actually refreshed the page,
Speaker 1: thinking that I had clicked on Jersey Flag or something
Speaker 1: or NRLW but I hadn't. Cowboys is lost by eighty
Speaker 1: and the other big news that Melbourne Storm a leader
Speaker 1: in the game of rugby league for the last twenty
Speaker 1: plus years, a market leader, officially out of the titles
Speaker 1: race now out of the finals race, and Brisbane are too,
Speaker 1: So there's probably the big things there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's some big, big results there. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think Brisbane has no surprise Melbourne.
Speaker 3: That was still sort of fighting work, but it's been
Speaker 3: a horrible year for them with the Craig Bellamy news
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 2: But the Cowboys, I've seen some highlights. I didn't watch
Speaker 2: it live, but to conceive that.
Speaker 3: Many points, you just you know, I know, obviously there
Speaker 3: are the new rules, but you just I saw the
Speaker 3: Marky mark try and it just looked like there was
Speaker 3: no effort from the Cowboys defence. Just, yeah, an eyesore
Speaker 3: of a result on my score line, because the Cowboys
Speaker 3: have actually been doing quite well for the last few absolutely,
Speaker 3: absolutely to their fans, one of the best. Yes, the
Speaker 3: fan bases up there in Townsville, and they love their
Speaker 3: rugby league and they love their rugby league team. And
Speaker 3: it's the darkest day in cowboys relatively short history, which
Speaker 3: is getting close to thirty two years I think now, So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty disgusting. Let's go to the questions and take
Speaker 1: your time, John about some good ones.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had one just popped up just before we
Speaker 3: recorded from Nazarenko. Where do you both see the ceiling
Speaker 3: being for Wakefield Trinity. I think that's a really good question.
Speaker 3: Obviously we talked about them a little bit, but I
Speaker 3: think they've come such a long way as a club.
Speaker 2: I don't think I can't really see them winning it
Speaker 2: this year. I think they're probably a player or two
Speaker 2: away from that.
Speaker 3: But obviously they've made some really good signings for next year,
Speaker 3: particularly in RTS. Just it's really shame about his acl
Speaker 3: interest injury and losing Tyson Smith at the end of
Speaker 3: the year is not great. But yeah, I really like
Speaker 3: Wakefield as a club. The ambition their owner shows, the
Speaker 3: way they play. They've just got this big, dominant Ford.
Speaker 1: Pack and I don't think then, I don't think there
Speaker 1: needs to be a ceiling. And I actually look at
Speaker 1: Wakefield as another version of what Hawk Are did a
Speaker 1: few years ago where I were a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So as Pitbull said, shoot for the stars and at
Speaker 1: least you might end up at the top of the world. Nazarenko, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think, I think I think they could be.
Speaker 3: You know, they could be total winners in the next
Speaker 3: couple of years if they if they continue what they're
Speaker 3: doing and build.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Question from Trent Watkins, what are your and Lee's plays
Speaker 3: for the Rugby League World Cup podcast coverage going to
Speaker 3: Games et cetera. And then the second part was England's
Speaker 3: games are mostly in Perth a fact finding mission for
Speaker 3: for Perth piece finding first Players finding a marquee player.
Speaker 1: Question Mark, Well, well, can I answer that one? I
Speaker 1: assume it came from somebody in England, so I don't
Speaker 1: know who would want to do. I don't know if
Speaker 1: anybody would want to help the Perth Bears. That's Perth
Speaker 1: Bears problem and the NRL's problem. I don't know why
Speaker 1: anybody from England want to do that, but in terms
Speaker 1: of content and English people struggle with this sometimes. I
Speaker 1: had a look at the fixtures and I live very
Speaker 1: close to Brisbane and not so far away from the
Speaker 1: Gold Coast, and you'll know exactly what I'm saying, John,
Speaker 1: I'm teaching you to suck eggs here. But there's two
Speaker 1: games in Brisbane. One of them is Australia versus Fiji,
Speaker 1: which i'll politely decline, and the other one is the
Speaker 1: final right, so that's obviously interesting. The Gold Coast game.
Speaker 1: The only game is New Zealand versus Fiji. So personally
Speaker 1: I have no interest in going to those two games.
Speaker 1: No offense to Fiji, but they're going to get hammered
Speaker 1: in both games to watch England. For me, in the
Speaker 1: first two games, it's the equivalent of driving or flying
Speaker 1: from Manchester to Moscow in Russia. So it's quite a
Speaker 1: challenge for me to go to that game. And if
Speaker 1: I want to go to the game in Wongong, which
Speaker 1: is the third game that England play, that's the equivalent
Speaker 1: of maybe flying London to Paris then driving the equivalent
Speaker 1: of Saint Helen's to Hull or Parish to lens Lawns,
Speaker 1: however you say it, or I could drive from Manchester
Speaker 1: to Lawns to get to that game. So it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot more difficult over here.
Speaker 2: Who was a person? Who's the person who sent us
Speaker 2: that question? Who? Sorry?
Speaker 1: Okay, sorry mister Watkins. So I'm just trying to give it,
Speaker 1: give it the picture for you. Six games in Sydney
Speaker 1: there is and to fly to Sydney to matches is
Speaker 1: the equivalent of I don't know, flying London to Paris
Speaker 1: or something and there's a semi final there. So it
Speaker 1: is a bit harder, isn't it, John for Australian people
Speaker 1: to bob around and you're you're going to be over
Speaker 1: here in Australia and it's it's literally quite difficult, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's it's not like driving down the sixty two. You
Speaker 1: can't get to every game or across to a lot
Speaker 1: of them. I know I've sort of mapped up where
Speaker 1: i'll be.
Speaker 3: I'm going to the opener Australia New Zealand in Sydney,
Speaker 3: which I think will be a fantastic game, and then
Speaker 3: the following night in Paramatter samorrowv.
Speaker 2: France and the men's and Australia v.
Speaker 3: Samor and the women's which is a double header, and
Speaker 3: then two days later in Beautiful Newcastle FIGIV the cook
Speaker 3: Lands and the Men's and New Zealand VGI in the
Speaker 3: women's and then I think it's about five days later
Speaker 3: in Paramatta again Tonga v. Eleven on the men's and
Speaker 3: Samow v Wales and the women and then I think
Speaker 3: it's a week later England vpg P and g Sorry
Speaker 3: and the men which is also double header with England v.
Speaker 3: So I think that'll be a and there's a wheelchair
Speaker 3: game actually, which is the first game, so I might
Speaker 3: try and get three in one game. But yeah, England
Speaker 3: v PNG will be a massive game, especially because whoever
Speaker 3: wins their first game the tongue of game England could
Speaker 3: be playing or fighting for a spot in the semifinals.
Speaker 3: Maybe it might be a must win games. So I
Speaker 3: think in terms of playings for the World Cup. In
Speaker 3: terms of podcast coverage, I think we're still working that out.
Speaker 3: But when we're both in the same time zone, recording
Speaker 3: a lot easier, so I think we'll.
Speaker 2: Probably do.
Speaker 3: The preview World Cup or to a preview podcast or
Speaker 3: two maybe two weeks to a week before the World Cup,
Speaker 3: and then we might be able to knock out a
Speaker 3: few bonus ones throughout the won't.
Speaker 2: Be in the same times on John will be an
Speaker 2: hour different. Okay.
Speaker 1: Now the other thing, John's got an advantage over me
Speaker 1: because John will fly into Sydney and all the fixtures
Speaker 1: had just spoken about a maximum. I mean the biggest
Speaker 1: drive John will have it's probably two hours, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Because you're either going to go from Newcastle to Sydney,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're staying in Sydney to go
Speaker 1: to Wong or whatever. That will be a four hour
Speaker 1: three to four hour drive for you. But it's a
Speaker 1: bit more palatable, isn't it. That's a bit like the
Speaker 1: M sixty two in a way. That's like going from
Speaker 1: Liverpool to Hall or something basically. So so you're you've
Speaker 1: got an advantage, whereas me being in Brisbane, I've got
Speaker 1: to jump on the plane most of the time if
Speaker 1: we want.
Speaker 2: To see some of these fixtures.
Speaker 1: So it's going to be a bit harder for me,
Speaker 1: and it's but we're hoping we can do one in
Speaker 1: person aren't we we can sit in the same room.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I believe you'll be in Newcastle around the seventeenth,
Speaker 3: so yeah, possibly it could potentially get to that Fiji
Speaker 3: Cook Islands game at McDonald Jones if you're in Newcastle
Speaker 3: that weekend.
Speaker 2: But yeah, we will. We'll have some firm We've got
Speaker 2: a bit more playing to do, but we'll have some well. Thing.
Speaker 1: The thing is, having been here for twenty two years,
Speaker 1: have become a bit more Australian than I like to
Speaker 1: admit sometimes. And Ozzie is a very last minute and
Speaker 1: and and you're you're getting the English disease of you
Speaker 1: have to plan everything like a military commander for six
Speaker 1: months before it happens. So and it's something I noticed
Speaker 1: when I go back and do and do seminars and
Speaker 1: whatnot in England, they're asking me three months out for
Speaker 1: things that you know, what you need, what you need,
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking to myself, I sort of think about
Speaker 1: that the week before I get there, kind of thing.
Speaker 3: I've got a fly fifteen other mile so I've been
Speaker 3: planning it mostly since.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, It's it's like a holiday for you, isn't it.
Speaker 1: That's the difference it's it's it's yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. The second part of trans question about the birth
Speaker 3: day is I think, look, I think they've signed four
Speaker 3: English players Perth. I think they won't be making any
Speaker 3: more signings from the World Cup. I think they'll have
Speaker 3: this squad, but I mean they've obviously quite busy in
Speaker 3: the last week or two and quite a few players,
Speaker 3: so I don't think they'll be calling anyone from the
Speaker 3: England team strutting to their pre season and then their debut.
Speaker 3: But we've got some other questions as well. Question from
Speaker 3: Brian Davies, So loose went with your very young Teamate
Speaker 3: leads nine French lads in the side academy laid lad
Speaker 3: deboot and the halves expected team at home Josh next
Speaker 3: week to feel very different. Is that disrespectful to the
Speaker 3: comp or of t O earned the right with the
Speaker 3: wins they already have. I don't think it's disrespectful to them. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think I think they have heard the right when
Speaker 3: they're you know, they're fighting with what once one point
Speaker 3: six million behind everyone else, and they've got a look
Speaker 3: long term. I think, you know, to lose finish twelfth
Speaker 3: or eleventh, they should be shouting from the rooftops. Even
Speaker 3: if they finished thirteenth, I think that's a result. So yeah, no, agreed.
Speaker 3: I think fair play to them. Yeah, you're tately agreed.
Speaker 3: And I've got a question from JJ Smith. Would love
Speaker 3: to hear your two thoughts onstead of the international game,
Speaker 3: especially with the recent and a nineteen tournament in France
Speaker 3: and the neumerous international women's matches for example Freds, the England, Canada,
Speaker 3: the Wales and Scotland. What needs to change for internationals
Speaker 3: to be a priority? I think international league is an
Speaker 3: absolute mess. And the reason I think it's an absolute
Speaker 3: mess is that.
Speaker 1: There's no long term plan and if they do have
Speaker 1: a long term plant changes. I mean, this particular World
Speaker 1: Cup was meant to take place in twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1: It was first meant to take place in the USA
Speaker 1: and Canada. That was scrapped, and then it became France,
Speaker 1: and then that was scrapped and we've ended up going
Speaker 1: a year later in one of the two places that
Speaker 1: we always have the World Cup, one of them being
Speaker 1: the Southern Hemisphere Australia, New Zealand and PNG, the other
Speaker 1: being the UK and a bit of France. Also, what
Speaker 1: happened is they brought the competition down to ten teams,
Speaker 1: which is something they do all the time when they
Speaker 1: have a competition in Australia, and that's obviously because of
Speaker 1: costs of many players getting over to Australia. What that
Speaker 1: does for an international rugby league. I've done a lot
Speaker 1: of work in the emerging nations realm culminating if you like.
Speaker 1: In twenty eighteen and twenty nineteen when I had Poland,
Speaker 1: I put in lots of long term plans, which is
Speaker 1: very very hard when you are dealing with something built
Speaker 1: on sand, on foundations of sand. And when the emerging
Speaker 1: Nations woke up happened in twenty eighteen, that was the
Speaker 1: first time that had happened for eighteen years, and there'd
Speaker 1: been one five years before that one, so that was
Speaker 1: a very inconsistent thing to put into context. Also, all
Speaker 1: we wanted to do at Poland and I also had
Speaker 1: this at the USA, and I also had this with Ireland,
Speaker 1: put in long term strategies, but for some reason, for
Speaker 1: some political reason, that wasn't allowed to happen. I've seen
Speaker 1: numerous times the game not helping certain nations, and the
Speaker 1: final nail for me for all this was when they
Speaker 1: scrapped the sixteen World Cup sixteen teen World Cup for
Speaker 1: the ten team World Cup, and it meant nations like
Speaker 1: Greece for example, who could have built on the last one,
Speaker 1: didn't have a chance. Jamaica, who could have built on
Speaker 1: the last one, didn't have a chance. And I think
Speaker 1: the worrying thing is and something that Andy Burnham needs
Speaker 1: to get hold of, is the absolute state of Scotland,
Speaker 1: Ireland and Wales and England when it comes to performance
Speaker 1: in these things. So my opinion on international rugby league
Speaker 1: has possibly never been lower.
Speaker 2: Quite frankly, Yeah, I agree with a lot of what
Speaker 2: you said there. I think.
Speaker 3: We need consistency. There is so much chopping and changing
Speaker 3: and the goal pert's being moved. I think, you know,
Speaker 3: getting rid of the Emerging Nation Swore Cup was a
Speaker 3: big mistake. I can understand what I cut it from
Speaker 3: sixteen to ten because the sixteen World Cup lost money.
Speaker 2: And I think you need you need to kind of
Speaker 2: go out.
Speaker 3: We need to be able to wash around face, so
Speaker 3: we need to be making money from tournaments so then
Speaker 3: you can give more development money out. But yeah, I
Speaker 3: think there's there's so much needs to be down in
Speaker 3: an international game.
Speaker 1: If you look at the history of World Cups, John,
Speaker 1: it's changed from nineteen fifty four round robin with a final,
Speaker 1: few years later round robin without a final. One year
Speaker 1: it was a round robin and they went, oh shit,
Speaker 1: we better put a challenge final in and decided that
Speaker 1: last minute. Then they went to a league system over
Speaker 1: the course of a year. Then they went to a
Speaker 1: league system over the course of four years and just
Speaker 1: threw in a final. And then since we've gone back
Speaker 1: to tournament formats, we've gone ten teams, sixteen teams, variations
Speaker 1: of that. We've had quarter finals, we've not had quarter finals,
Speaker 1: we've had equal pools, we've had super pools. It's a mess.
Speaker 1: It's an absolute mess. We ever managed to get the
Speaker 1: trophy Nicks for twenty year.
Speaker 3: Is one thing I think that is positive is that
Speaker 3: the NRL is looking more at the international game now.
Speaker 3: Obviously with the Pacific Championships that paid for that, and
Speaker 3: they are funding obviously money into PNG and the Pacific region.
Speaker 3: Now I know the NRL is also interested in Wales,
Speaker 3: so I think obviously if a deal is done with
Speaker 3: Super leg and the RFL, then they would look to
Speaker 3: develop England, the World, Great Britain and France. I think
Speaker 3: they realized that those are pivot areas for the for
Speaker 3: the world. But I think we need more money directed,
Speaker 3: you know, whether it be from the NRL TV deal, directed,
Speaker 3: siphoned over rin fenced for the international.
Speaker 2: Help us all be one the land is you're our
Speaker 2: only hope.
Speaker 3: Yes, but don't criticize anyone because there's a new media
Speaker 3: reticular leader and you'll be kicked out.
Speaker 2: And Blacks I've criticized everybody today. Well in the same
Speaker 2: morning Herald, You're you're going to be in big trouble
Speaker 2: in the future. They can they can kiss me. And
Speaker 2: on that note, for questions, it is, yes, it is yeah. Previews.
Speaker 1: Not many questions this week on previews are should I
Speaker 1: say John's tips I should have kept a score? Next
Speaker 1: week Thursday, Saint Helen's versus Hull Left C.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean we've talked to because we went through
Speaker 3: the fixtures, We've talked about a few of those games.
Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, Saint Helen's back and then.
Speaker 1: Friday three games of take o'clock casts at home to
Speaker 1: Whole k R.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The schizophrenic targets, I think I think whole k
Speaker 2: are for me. You're not scarred by the other week. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm not put my life on it, but
Speaker 2: I think I think who are starting hit a bit
Speaker 2: of form now? Lee at home to York.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think Leo bounce back New York, you know,
Speaker 3: struggle for consistency week a week. But I think Lee
Speaker 3: know how important that game is. That now they'll put
Speaker 3: a good performance at home and get a win.
Speaker 1: And the top two are playing each other at the
Speaker 1: IY Kitchens. Wakefield against Leeds.
Speaker 3: I mean Wakefield have already beaten Leeds in the cap,
Speaker 3: knock the man a couple in this year. I think
Speaker 3: you could flip a coin for this. I'll probably just
Speaker 3: edged with Lee, sorry with Leeds. But Wakefield at home
Speaker 3: a massive winning round. They're a real chance to win
Speaker 3: that game as well.
Speaker 1: Saturday three games kicking off at different times. Huddersfield Giants
Speaker 1: at home to Catalans at two o'clock on a Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 2: Right, they're un least I'm all behind them. Wigan play
Speaker 2: to lose at five point thirty on Saturday. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: think the worries. Bradford at home to Warrington an hour later.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think Redford with so many injuries,
Speaker 3: you know, throwing debutantes and getting in Alan players every
Speaker 3: which way, I think Warranton for that one.
Speaker 2: And once again no fixtures on Sunday in the Bedford
Speaker 2: super League.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't I don't really know this this strategy,
Speaker 3: but I think it's a real disappoint particularly with we're
Speaker 3: in the midst of the well. It's not a heat wave,
Speaker 3: but it's like a nameless summer in the UK, so
Speaker 3: you know it's good. I think, you know, Sunday for
Speaker 3: a quockick off would be a big winner. I think
Speaker 3: there's nothing better than the afternoon for they on a
Speaker 3: nice one day. So yeah, an opportunity list.
Speaker 1: And I think because of the run in, the run
Speaker 1: in that we did for the Super League, I think
Speaker 1: our episode has been a bumper edition. It's gone very
Speaker 1: long today, so hopefully people can it maybe consume the
Speaker 1: first half on the way to work on the second
Speaker 1: half after but spirited off work and listen to it all.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, that's right. Have a good week, John,
Speaker 2: and we'll catch each other next week.
Speaker 3: Mhm.