WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.399 --> 00:00:06.240 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on WBS Boston's news. 2 00:00:06.080 --> 00:00:22.960 Video Christina Rex, do you know that theme song? 3 00:00:25.000 --> 00:00:26.320 I don't. I'm embarrassed. 4 00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:28.600 You shouldn't be because you're too young to know that. 5 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:30.519 What is it? 6 00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:32.759 That is the theme song from La Law? 7 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:37.200 Oh? Okay, no, I don't know it. 8 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:38.479 Did you have a watcher? 9 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:39.960 No? 10 00:00:41.479 --> 00:00:43.399 I might be too young. I think you're right. 11 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:46.600 Sorry, yourself an attorney. I just want to say that, 12 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:49.000 I'm very proud. I think it's great. Congratulate. We're going 13 00:00:49.039 --> 00:00:52.200 to talk about the case. Of course, that is driving 14 00:00:52.240 --> 00:00:55.000 us crazy, but you know, I think I think it's 15 00:00:55.079 --> 00:00:57.960 really amazing, and I think it's it's great quality that 16 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:01.200 not only are a terrific journalist, you've also been going 17 00:01:01.200 --> 00:01:04.159 to law school and you've got your degree here an attorney, 18 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:07.120 just like Dan Ray. I worked with Dan at Channel 19 00:01:07.159 --> 00:01:09.840 four and I never I never knew the guy was 20 00:01:09.840 --> 00:01:13.560 an attorney as well. So I mean, it's one thing 21 00:01:14.519 --> 00:01:17.239 to be a journalist, it's another thing to also go 22 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:22.400 to law school and become an attorney. Yeah, congratulations, thank. 23 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:23.760 You so much. I still have to pass the bar, 24 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:26.280 so we can't can't count our chickens before they hatch 25 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:28.640 but look, hopefully the. 26 00:01:28.599 --> 00:01:32.280 Bar in July JFK Junior, God rest his soul. It 27 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:34.359 took him three times. You'll be fine. 28 00:01:35.599 --> 00:01:37.159 Yeah, hopefully it only takes one. 29 00:01:37.200 --> 00:01:42.879 Hopefully you'll be fine. You'll be fine. So, you know, 30 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.400 I see big things happening Court TV. That that's okay. 31 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:47.879 People at Channel four are going to get mad at 32 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.159 me for saying that. So I feel the need to 33 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:53.599 talk about the Karen Reed trial. I have to be 34 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:58.239 honest with you. I'm fatigued. I'm like, let's make a call, folks, 35 00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.159 yay or nay. I'm done. 36 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:02.959 I think a lot of people feel that way. 37 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:05.239 Yeah. I mean it's got to be even. I mean, 38 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:07.359 you're into it. You're an attorney, you find it interesting. 39 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.080 So yeah, but I don't know who to believe because 40 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:13.960 today they say that the prosecution had a good day. 41 00:02:14.719 --> 00:02:15.719 Is that the case. 42 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:19.400 Who said that? Well, I was really I mean Court TV? 43 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:25.719 Yeah, Court TV. But the the crash reconstruction expert Welcher 44 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:30.080 said that. Welcher, yeah, that the cut was consistent with 45 00:02:30.199 --> 00:02:33.400 being hit by the Lexus Fillason correct. 46 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:33.759 He says. 47 00:02:34.000 --> 00:02:34.159 So. 48 00:02:34.800 --> 00:02:38.560 He is a private, independent crash reconstruction expert who is 49 00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:40.680 hired by the State, by the way, which we found 50 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.879 out today according to the defense for three hundred and 51 00:02:42.919 --> 00:02:45.400 twenty five thousand dollars is what his company has been paid, 52 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:51.120 and that's taxpayer money. So he according to his research 53 00:02:51.159 --> 00:02:55.240 and testing he did. He says that John O'Keefe's arm 54 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:59.039 injuries are consistent with being hit by the Lexus tail light. 55 00:03:00.080 --> 00:03:02.319 He also says that the information in the car is 56 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:06.319 consistent with a collision occurring, so it's the damage to 57 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.840 the car. So in that regard, that might be why 58 00:03:08.840 --> 00:03:10.919 people are saying it's a good day for the Commonwealth. 59 00:03:11.199 --> 00:03:15.159 The other thing is that ninety plus percent of the 60 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:20.879 day was cross examination of the same guy, and it 61 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:23.199 was we now learned at the end of the day 62 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:26.120 that that cross examination is only halfway done, so four 63 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.879 hours in, it's only halfway done. And it was just 64 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.439 kind of one of the more prolonged cross examinations that 65 00:03:33.520 --> 00:03:39.120 didn't necessarily have like really punchy gotcha moments like other 66 00:03:39.159 --> 00:03:42.960 cross examinations have had so far. But we got to 67 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:45.199 see how tomorrow goes too, especially since this is only 68 00:03:45.240 --> 00:03:45.879 halfway through. 69 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.520 I know, as a reporter, you're not going to give 70 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:52.960 me an opinion, so I mean just answer this question, 71 00:03:53.039 --> 00:03:59.919 especially can yep. Could it be that he was struck 72 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:03.719 by the vehicle but he was already dead, or he 73 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:07.479 was on his way to you know, he was injured, 74 00:04:07.879 --> 00:04:10.520 he was lying in the snow. I mean, it always 75 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.879 seems to me the truth always lies somewhere in the middle. 76 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:15.800 Is that a possibility? 77 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.279 So, honestly, I don't even if us as an opinion, 78 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:22.800 I think anybody in the case, involved in the case 79 00:04:22.839 --> 00:04:26.439 would agree the scenarios you're putting out there. I don't 80 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:30.399 think there are a possibility because based on the timing 81 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.519 of when John o'keef and Karen Ree left the bar 82 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:38.480 and got to thirty four fair View, there's the state 83 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.480 is alleging that this crash, and then this expert is 84 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.560 saying that according to the car data, it happened. We're 85 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:48.480 talking within minutes to seconds of them arriving in front 86 00:04:48.480 --> 00:04:53.160 of the house. So the times wouldn't line up for 87 00:04:53.480 --> 00:04:56.720 John O'Keefe to already have been injured in some way 88 00:04:57.319 --> 00:04:59.759 before that crash happened, Which is why I think the 89 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.920 art between both sides is the crash happened or it didn't. 90 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.680 Okay, all right, I understand that I got you, now, 91 00:05:07.800 --> 00:05:11.800 so when do you think this thing? How much longer 92 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:12.279 do we have? 93 00:05:13.800 --> 00:05:16.079 So I have some insight on this. So it's our 94 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:20.000 belief based on various information, that this guy, Judson Welcher 95 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:25.879 is the final Commonwealth witness. So however, he might be 96 00:05:25.879 --> 00:05:28.720 on the stand through Friday at this rate, given how 97 00:05:28.759 --> 00:05:32.879 long his testimony is taking. But when he's done, we 98 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:36.319 expect that the Commonwealth will rest and then the defense 99 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:37.959 says that their case will be about a week and 100 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:42.040 a half. And then there's a potential that prosecutors will 101 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:45.680 call some rebuttal witnesses which did not happen last trial, 102 00:05:46.959 --> 00:05:50.120 because they have some of their own experts this time 103 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:52.399 to talk about whether or not John o'kee's injuries or 104 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.839 dog bites. So if the defense presents a case about 105 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:59.120 dog bites, the state might want to rebut that and 106 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.560 so that could be few more days, so like two 107 00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.600 more weeks of testimony ish, if that makes sense. 108 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:08.839 Is there a concern with jury fatigue? 109 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:15.439 Yes, except I will say, well, so there's eighteen jurors, 110 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.360 and I would say generally speaking, I got to give 111 00:06:18.360 --> 00:06:22.439 them credit because during the last trial, it started with 112 00:06:22.560 --> 00:06:25.360 nineteen and by the last day we were down to fourteen. 113 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:29.399 I think not one juror has dropped out, so kudos 114 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:32.279 to them because they've all been there for six weeks straight. However, 115 00:06:32.959 --> 00:06:35.759 if we're talking about juror fatigue, like on a daily basis, 116 00:06:35.879 --> 00:06:38.279 there are certainly some jurors. There are some who are 117 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:40.560 diligent note takers who are locked in all the time, 118 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:44.279 and others who at times look like they have completely 119 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:47.399 zoned out, depending on kind of what point we're at 120 00:06:47.399 --> 00:06:48.040 in testimony. 121 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.759 Yeah, so is there now we're talking strategy here or 122 00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:56.920 second guessing strategy. Is there a benefit to maybe for 123 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:01.319 the defense expediting the process, or does it benefit them 124 00:07:01.360 --> 00:07:03.360 to drag it out, because it seems to me they're 125 00:07:03.439 --> 00:07:04.279 dragging it out. 126 00:07:05.839 --> 00:07:08.240 I think it depends. That was such a lawyer answer. 127 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:12.240 I'm sorry, but during the last trial, the Commonwealth called 128 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:15.839 sixty eight witnesses and then the defense only called six, 129 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:19.480 and it was like two days quick, punchy to the point, 130 00:07:19.560 --> 00:07:21.759 you know, and I think that that was a strategy. 131 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:23.959 That's not going to be the case here the defense 132 00:07:23.959 --> 00:07:25.439 that's going to take a week and a half. It 133 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:28.600 has a much longer witness list than it did in 134 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:31.879 the previous trial. On the flip side, the Commonwealth's witness 135 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:34.959 list is practically cut in half. They've called thirty eight witnesses, 136 00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:38.480 not sixty eight. So we're certainly seeing things kind of 137 00:07:38.480 --> 00:07:40.759 meet in the middle in that regard. But you do 138 00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.399 notice almost that slip of that technique. For example, Robert Lessi, 139 00:07:45.519 --> 00:07:47.920 the defense attorney who I told you is up right now. 140 00:07:48.199 --> 00:07:51.279 He's really methodical and he's like really into the data, 141 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:55.600 and so his questions are really data focused, and at 142 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:58.920 times it can take you know, a dozen questions to 143 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:02.720 get to the answer looking for. And then on the 144 00:08:02.759 --> 00:08:06.000 flip side, on redirect examination, you see Hank Brennan get 145 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.279 up there after him and he asks like three or 146 00:08:08.279 --> 00:08:10.759 four questions really fast, and then the witness gets off 147 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:13.600 the stand, and you have to imagine that's a strategy. 148 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:16.680 It's hard to envision that it's anything but a strategy 149 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:19.040 when somebody has been on cross the gamination for hours 150 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:22.199 and hours and hours to then come up and kind 151 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.199 of be zippy and get them off the stand quickly. 152 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:29.040 So we certainly are seeing My point is each side 153 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.720 kind of do the opposite of whatever the other side 154 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:35.080 is doing at any given point, so it'll be interesting 155 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:37.799 Robert Alessi has played a huge role for the defense 156 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:43.360 and cross examination during the commonwealths case. I imagine I 157 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:45.840 don't know this, but I imagine that during the defense's 158 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:49.600 case in chief, perhaps Alan Jackson, David Yannetti, the attorneys 159 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:51.360 who played a bigger role last trial will be the 160 00:08:51.399 --> 00:08:52.600 ones kind of leading the charge. 161 00:08:52.679 --> 00:08:55.399 Christina retches, our guest esquire. 162 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:02.080 Not yet, not yet, bar bar pending bard bar pending 163 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:05.159 when I was in college or your age bar pending 164 00:09:05.159 --> 00:09:06.600 at a completely different meaning. 165 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:08.679 Yes, we have. 166 00:09:09.159 --> 00:09:10.879 But the big question that we're going to ask is 167 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:14.320 should we expect to change in the outcome versus last time. 168 00:09:14.360 --> 00:09:16.720 That's coming up in our next segment with Christina right 169 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:17.960 here on WBZ. 170 00:09:18.759 --> 00:09:23.440 It's Night Side with Dan Ray on wb Boston's news Radio. 171 00:09:23.639 --> 00:09:27.120 Great book Blood in the Water, Casey Sherman writes about 172 00:09:27.159 --> 00:09:29.039 it or wrote that book, and he's coming up at 173 00:09:29.080 --> 00:09:32.600 nine thirty. We all know about that case, dead mother, 174 00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:35.559 that grandfather who plus tic on that one in Casey 175 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.080 is a very unique, very unique opinion on that. Okay, 176 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:41.879 let's get back to another very unique case. The Karen Retrala. 177 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:44.879 Joining us is Christina Rex. Christina who done a great 178 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:45.720 job covering this. 179 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:47.200 Thank you. 180 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.720 Why do you Why is it allowed that people can 181 00:09:51.720 --> 00:09:53.759 pay witnesses. I don't understand it. 182 00:09:56.279 --> 00:09:57.000 In general. 183 00:09:57.399 --> 00:10:02.879 Yes, this is I mean expert witnesses. That's a field 184 00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:05.919 of that's a career. I mean, you can be an 185 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.720 expert witness in like you can be a doctor and 186 00:10:09.799 --> 00:10:15.320 one who does expert testimony. On the side. There are 187 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.120 expert witnesses who are government employees, for example, like the 188 00:10:20.120 --> 00:10:25.360 state medical examiner or a state trooper who does a 189 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.159 very specific line of work. Those are the kinds of 190 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:30.960 people who are expert witnesses to do it for a living, 191 00:10:31.000 --> 00:10:33.080 and they always testify on behalf of the case. But 192 00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:35.919 it's the tale as old as time that you can 193 00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:37.200 pay an expert witness. 194 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.360 But to me, and again, I mean, but you just 195 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.799 brought it up. And I understand there are people that 196 00:10:43.879 --> 00:10:45.960 should be paid for their expertise, but you just brought 197 00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:48.919 it up. As soon as I say, I'm the prosecution, 198 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:50.440 I have a defense witness. I have to pay him 199 00:10:50.519 --> 00:10:53.919 three hundred thousand dollars. The defense says they just bought 200 00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:55.879 this guy for three hundred grand. I'm on the jury 201 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.519 and I'm just a regular citizen, you know. Working a 202 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:01.039 regular job and in my mind thinking, Okay, they paid 203 00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:05.919 this guy off to tell their story. 204 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:07.360 Right, and the jury can be instructed often to not 205 00:11:08.759 --> 00:11:11.399 come to that conclusion, like jury instructions are a thing 206 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:14.120 that the judge can give. On the flip side, the 207 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.960 defense also has crash reconstruction experts that it has paid. 208 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.799 I don't know what the total is, but it has 209 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:25.200 paid as well. And I can guarantee on cross examination 210 00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:27.679 of those witnesses that the prosecutor will lack how much 211 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:33.039 they were paid for their testimony. So just exactly that's 212 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.879 the exact point I'm trying to make. As normal as 213 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:39.279 it is to have an expert witness, it's like a 214 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:42.279 guaranteed throwaway question almost that a lawyer is going to ask, 215 00:11:42.320 --> 00:11:43.840 weren't you paid to be here today? And how much 216 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:46.320 were you paid to be here? I think for this 217 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.200 witness who's on the stand today and tomorrow and yesterday, 218 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:53.679 the interesting part about him being paid is that allegedly 219 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:55.919 it's three hundred and twenty five thousand dollars, and that's 220 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:02.240 taxpayer money. So typically the state has government employees who 221 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:04.679 do this work, Like during the last case, it was 222 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:07.360 a state trooper who did that work right, So the 223 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.879 taxpayers weren't paying extra. Now that taxpayer money going to 224 00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:17.840 an independent company for the prosecution's case. So that's what 225 00:12:17.960 --> 00:12:19.399 made it a little more interesting. 226 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:23.200 Yeah, that it's just a bad look. I mean, yeah, And. 227 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:27.120 I'll tell you we have I put a public records 228 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:29.919 request in yesterday to get an itemized receipt of the 229 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:32.879 money paid to this company, because again this is just 230 00:12:32.879 --> 00:12:36.279 coming out on cross examination, so I just have to say, 231 00:12:36.279 --> 00:12:38.360 you know, the defense says the bill was this much, 232 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.960 but hopefully I'll get an actual copy of the bill 233 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:42.679 from the state. At some point I. 234 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:44.600 Lost track of this. Wasn't there a witness from the 235 00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.799 last trial that was on Read's defense team. 236 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:48.919 Who got paid? 237 00:12:48.960 --> 00:12:51.200 You mean or it was. I don't know if they 238 00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.120 got paid, but I remember when the trial began that 239 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.240 there was They said there was a witness that they 240 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:59.879 from the previous trial that they were using for her call. 241 00:13:00.360 --> 00:13:01.159 Did I get that right? 242 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:08.879 I assume you're referencing the crash reconstruction experts. So there 243 00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:11.120 was like a lot of drama about this in between 244 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:15.360 the two cases. Basically, in the first trial, these crash 245 00:13:15.399 --> 00:13:18.559 reconstruction experts who had been privately hired by the Department 246 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.159 of Justice as part of a federal investigation. They testified 247 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.480 for the defense, and then it was revealed in about 248 00:13:26.600 --> 00:13:30.919 February of this year that the defense had paid for 249 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.399 their services and that had not been revealed to the court. 250 00:13:34.559 --> 00:13:37.360 And so that was like a big yeah, that was 251 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:39.879 like a big kind of dramatic situation. The judge had 252 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:43.240 like considered sanctions on one of the defense attorneys, and 253 00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:46.840 there were several hearings about it. So I think that 254 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:49.000 I assume that's what you're thinking about. But those same 255 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:52.559 experts are now coming back to testify in this case 256 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.240 and they do work for the defense. Now in this case, 257 00:13:55.240 --> 00:13:57.039 their witnesses on behalf of the defense. 258 00:13:57.120 --> 00:13:59.039 You know, I'm confusing it with an episode of All 259 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:00.399 Law from nineteen eight. 260 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:03.200 That's what I'm doing before my time. 261 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.080 Yeah, okay, you just gotta, you gotta go. You gotta 262 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.720 watch it on two B or something, just to look 263 00:14:08.720 --> 00:14:11.200 at the clothes and the hair cells. You gotta oh, 264 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:14.519 I will you got it? Okay. So Karen Reid seemed 265 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:18.440 to be this cult figure. Is some of her shine 266 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.279 off her star been dulled. 267 00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:28.200 In person, no, so in person at the courthouse every 268 00:14:28.279 --> 00:14:31.360 day there is. There's a whole new system compared to 269 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:33.440 the last trial, but there's still a crowd of dozens 270 00:14:33.440 --> 00:14:36.360 of people every single day. They gather out there in 271 00:14:36.399 --> 00:14:39.200 their you know, shirts that say free Karen Reid or 272 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.559 their pink outfits. They cheer for Karen and her team 273 00:14:42.639 --> 00:14:45.559 as they drive in. Karen usually flows down as she 274 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.440 unrolls the window and she talks to them for a 275 00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:51.120 couple of minutes before she goes in. Some a lady 276 00:14:51.120 --> 00:14:53.879 from Toronto I think it was the other day, came 277 00:14:53.919 --> 00:14:55.399 and was like, can I please get a selfie with you? 278 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.159 I came from Canada to be here, so in person, 279 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:04.600 no on social media. I get the impression that there's 280 00:15:04.639 --> 00:15:08.759 a lot a much bigger range of opinions this time around, 281 00:15:09.240 --> 00:15:12.879 and people who are into the case posting about it 282 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:16.000 more so than there was last trial. 283 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.639 I just know, if you hang around too long, you're screwed, 284 00:15:21.159 --> 00:15:23.600 you know, with public perception. I mean seriously, you know, 285 00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.200 like it gets people go okay, go away. And I'm 286 00:15:26.240 --> 00:15:28.639 not even talking about whether she's guilty or not. I 287 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.919 think that's just how people think. I mean, in this 288 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:32.759 day and age, you know, people. 289 00:15:32.519 --> 00:15:34.360 Get yeah, kind of the celebrity of it all. 290 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.919 Oh my god, it's like here today, gone tomorrow. Do you, 291 00:15:39.840 --> 00:15:42.159 as I look at this from one hundred miles away, 292 00:15:42.919 --> 00:15:44.720 I don't see how there's a change in the outcome 293 00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.639 versus last time. Am I wrong? 294 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:50.879 No? I think you might be right. It's certainly a 295 00:15:50.919 --> 00:15:54.159 different case this time around. I mean, there is new 296 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:58.159 evidence the prosecution has put on a very different case. 297 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:04.080 And the biggest mom maybe I shouldn't say biggest, but 298 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.440 one big thing that they have used that they didn't 299 00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.919 use the last trial is that they have an entireative 300 00:16:09.120 --> 00:16:12.320 hours and hours of unedited raw interview footage with Karen 301 00:16:12.399 --> 00:16:16.440 Reid that they've played twenty five plus clips of on 302 00:16:16.480 --> 00:16:21.159 the screen for the jury where the defendant herself admits 303 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:24.559 to how much she drank, whether or not she should 304 00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:29.000 have been driving, etc. And so that's certainly new information 305 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:31.200 that could make a jury feel one way or the other. 306 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.759 At the same time, a lawyer said this to me 307 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:36.399 during the last trial, and I think of it all 308 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:38.039 the time, which is that if you get ten people 309 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:39.960 in a room and you bring up the Karen Reid trial, 310 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:44.279 you cannot get all ten people to agree. And I 311 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.759 think that's still true, and I think that that could 312 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:48.559 very well be true for a jury as well. 313 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:52.320 I don't expect you to give an answer on this 314 00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:56.440 on which way you think it'll go. But in your mind, 315 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:00.919 do you think you know what happened? Because I don't. 316 00:17:01.159 --> 00:17:05.319 No, no, no, and actually no, thank you for this question. 317 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:11.039 Can I tell you yes? Because one very strange aspect 318 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.440 of kind of the social media of this case is 319 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:16.519 that so I do these social media recaps the end 320 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:20.200 of every day after I'm on TV, and yeah, one 321 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:22.960 of the top comments I get is like, whose side 322 00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:24.799 are you on? Why don't you tell us what you 323 00:17:24.920 --> 00:17:27.720 think you know? I can't tell which team you're on. 324 00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:31.519 And I tell people this in person often and they 325 00:17:31.519 --> 00:17:36.079 don't believe me, Like I truly, as a journalist and 326 00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:41.240 as a person, do not have a strong opinion about 327 00:17:42.039 --> 00:17:46.680 what happened in any direction. I think the reason this 328 00:17:46.799 --> 00:17:48.880 case has taken off so much is because there is 329 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:52.720 so much gray area, generally speaking, and people have so 330 00:17:52.960 --> 00:17:55.640 many different opinions about what might have happened. And I'm 331 00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:58.400 someone whose job it is to know all of those 332 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.319 theories and all of the other sink court and all 333 00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.279 of the witnesses and so every day. I'm just inundated 334 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:08.720 with more information that I'm always fascinated by the people 335 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:11.440 who claim that they know exactly what happened. 336 00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.200 There's no way that you can be objective and say that. 337 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:20.519 I just you know, way you can be objective and say, oh, 338 00:18:20.559 --> 00:18:22.960 it's so obvious that this is what happened, or it's 339 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:25.960 clear that this is what happened, because the only thing 340 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:28.599 that objective people could agree upon in this case is 341 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:29.599 that it's not clear. 342 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:36.279 Yes, yeah, well that'll do it for the that's that's 343 00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:38.559 the third act, and we still don't know who did it, 344 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.920 you know, I mean, well, but it's true. 345 00:18:44.119 --> 00:18:47.359 I mean, the thing is that the really really unique 346 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.440 thing about this entire situation, which has made prosecutors job 347 00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:53.279 really tough from the beginning, is that there's not a 348 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:55.920 single eyewitness to what they say happened. Do you know 349 00:18:55.960 --> 00:19:00.160 how rare that is for an event like what the 350 00:19:00.160 --> 00:19:02.480 prosecution says occurred to happen and to not have a 351 00:19:02.480 --> 00:19:05.720 single person witness it. I mean, that's a really tough 352 00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:08.319 case from the start. So you can't say anything's clear 353 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:09.799 if not a single person saw it. 354 00:19:10.920 --> 00:19:13.440 Agreed, there's a cut that looks like it was done 355 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:16.079 by the light. She said I hit him, I hit him. 356 00:19:16.119 --> 00:19:17.680 But then I look at that and I say, she 357 00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:20.279 thought she hit him. She was panicked, she didn't know 358 00:19:20.319 --> 00:19:22.440 what she was talking about. Then they sell the house, 359 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.519 they paint the floor, the dog disappears, ying and Yang, 360 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:27.720 I'm going I'm confused, and I think I. 361 00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:30.640 Think it's you can only imagine how the jury feels, right. 362 00:19:30.880 --> 00:19:33.119 I think it's a really hard thing to do. And 363 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:35.440 I think I think she's going to walk again because 364 00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:38.559 I don't think that there's going to be I just 365 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.480 don't see it changing, you know, I just do not. 366 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.759 I do not see the outcome changing. And I'm not 367 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:47.240 pro either way. I just don't think the evidence is there. 368 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:48.960 I have to ask you a question, what are your 369 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:52.599 plans now? Are you going to continue to do television journalism? 370 00:19:52.680 --> 00:19:53.880 And I don't want to put you in trouble with 371 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:55.559 your bosses. I used to work there with no. 372 00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.039 No, no, I am. I genuinely am going to I 373 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:01.599 feel like, especially given the opportunity to cover this trial 374 00:20:01.640 --> 00:20:04.480 the last two years, I'm just in a really good place. 375 00:20:05.599 --> 00:20:08.720 Any network, any network, would be crazy not to go 376 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.720 get you in regard to this. Yeah, well, no, I 377 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:15.720 mean it's true. I mean, like, you know, look, I 378 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.519 worked at television for a long time. In radio, there 379 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:21.200 could there are some real I've worked with some real 380 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:23.720 morons behind the mic, and there are some people that 381 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:25.640 really know what the hell is going on. Dan Ray is 382 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:27.519 one of them who was an attorney that worked at 383 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.119 Channel four. And you're an attorney that worked at Channel four, 384 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.400 and you know there's a lot of there's a lot 385 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.319 of value in that final question, how has this case 386 00:20:37.319 --> 00:20:42.240 changed your approach to being an attorney or your desire 387 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:43.079 to be an attorney? 388 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.000 I think it's kind of ignited my passion even more. 389 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:50.839 I mean I think, like I told you, I'm in 390 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:53.240 a good place at work. I really feel like I'm 391 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:56.799 where I'm supposed to be right now. I can imagine 392 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.000 that someday, years years down the line, maybe I'll practice 393 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:06.480 law and I find a lot to be so exciting, 394 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:09.559 and this covering this case has been real world experience 395 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.880 that I couldn't have asked for anywhere else. So it's been, 396 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:17.319 you know, maybe even better than the classroom for the 397 00:21:17.359 --> 00:21:22.279 last two years at certain times, and so I don't know, yeah, 398 00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:26.000 in that regard, it's been really just made me more 399 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:29.880 interested in law, and but it's another thing is that 400 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.160 I think that it's brought me a unique perspective when 401 00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:36.559