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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two

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<v Speaker 1>of our series about the disappearance of Connie Smith. Robin,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up on what we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the victim of this Connie Smith, she went missing

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<v Speaker 2>in Salisbury, Connecticut in July of nineteen fifty two. She

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<v Speaker 2>was only ten years old and hailed from a very

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<v Speaker 2>prominent family, as her paternal grandfather had once been the

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<v Speaker 2>governor of Wyoming, and this was her first time at

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<v Speaker 2>summer camp away from her family, because she mostly used

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<v Speaker 2>to spend time on their family's ranch, and this was

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<v Speaker 2>her first time hanging out with other kids. And while

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<v Speaker 2>this has never been confirmed, there have been rumors that

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<v Speaker 2>maybe she was bullied or tormented because she suffered a

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<v Speaker 2>few injuries before she went missing, and while the cover

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<v Speaker 2>stories that they were accidents, there's been speculation that she

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<v Speaker 2>was not getting along well with the other kids at

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<v Speaker 2>camp and maybe got so upset that she wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>go home and contact her parents. Because the morning she

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<v Speaker 2>went missing, while all the other campers were going to breakfast,

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<v Speaker 2>Connie just decided to leave the campground and a whole

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<v Speaker 2>bunch of witnesses saw her walking alone down a road

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<v Speaker 2>towards the nearest town, but before she arrived there, she

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<v Speaker 2>just vanished without a trace, and the most logical explanation

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<v Speaker 2>is that she may have been picked up with someone

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<v Speaker 2>who harmed her. But she has not been seen since,

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<v Speaker 2>and while they have looked at a number of potential

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<v Speaker 2>suspects over the years, they haven't found any evidence implicating anyone.

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<v Speaker 2>Many years later, there would be a promising lead when

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<v Speaker 2>the authorities got an anonymous letter that Connie was a

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<v Speaker 2>unidentified child known only as Little Miss X, whose skeleton

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<v Speaker 2>remains have been found in Arizona in nineteen fifty eight.

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<v Speaker 2>They compared dental records at the time and were inclined

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<v Speaker 2>to believe that it wasn't Connie, but there's been speculation

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<v Speaker 2>that the dental testing back then was flawed, so they

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to do DNA testing, But unfortunately, little Miss X

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<v Speaker 2>is buried somewhere, and because records weren't kept, they don't

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<v Speaker 2>know the exact spot she's buried at, so they've been

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<v Speaker 2>unable to exhume her to do the DNA comparison. So unfortunately,

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<v Speaker 2>after over seventy years, Connie is still a missing person

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<v Speaker 2>that we don't know what happened to her. So this

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<v Speaker 2>is one of those missing persons cases where the explanation

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<v Speaker 2>for what actually happened in the victim seems fairly obvious.

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<v Speaker 2>Since Connie was last seen attempting a hitchhike on Route

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<v Speaker 2>forty four, it's likely that she was picked up by

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<v Speaker 2>an unknown person who did her harm, and unfortunately, this

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<v Speaker 2>happened to take place during a narrow window of time

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<v Speaker 2>when no one else was around. If Connie was taken

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<v Speaker 2>away in a vehicle, then she could have been murdered

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<v Speaker 2>at an entirely different location outside the search area, which

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<v Speaker 2>is why no one ever found her. But even so,

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<v Speaker 2>there are still a lot of unanswered questions about the

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<v Speaker 2>circumstances of why Connie wound up in this situation to

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<v Speaker 2>begin with, and the case also has a number of

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<v Speaker 2>interesting side stories which may or may not be connected.

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<v Speaker 2>In missing children's cases, it's always frustrating when the victim

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<v Speaker 2>is last seen at a location they had no reason

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<v Speaker 2>to be at. One of the most famous examples of

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<v Speaker 2>this is the disappearance of Asia Degree, which we briefly

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<v Speaker 2>talked about on our last episode, as she inexplicably left

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<v Speaker 2>her home in the middle of the night and was

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<v Speaker 2>last seen walking down the road by motorists before she vanished.

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<v Speaker 2>The circumstances here are a bit similar, except that it's

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<v Speaker 2>not hard to dream up a logical reason for why

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<v Speaker 2>Connie may have wanted to walk away from Camp Sloane.

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<v Speaker 2>In the preceding twelve hours or so, she suffered a

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<v Speaker 2>bruised tip, a bloody nose, and broken eyeglasses, and while

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<v Speaker 2>the cover story is that these incidents were purely accidental,

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<v Speaker 2>a number of people suspect that Connie was being violently

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<v Speaker 2>bullied and just decided that enough was enough. It's really

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<v Speaker 2>hard to get a handle on what exactly happened to

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<v Speaker 2>Connie before she left the camp, as almost no details

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<v Speaker 2>have ever been released publicly about the other girls she

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<v Speaker 2>was sharing a tent with, and that's understandable since they

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<v Speaker 2>were all miners and deserved to have their names kept private.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's easy to come up with reasons why there

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<v Speaker 2>might have been some friction, especially when you consider that

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<v Speaker 2>this was the first time Connie had ever attended summer camp,

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<v Speaker 2>and she had probably never spent this much time away

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<v Speaker 2>from her family before. All of these other girls came

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<v Speaker 2>from the big city, whereas Connie came from a wealthy,

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<v Speaker 2>privileged family who lived on her large ranch, and she

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<v Speaker 2>had a more tom boyish personality. You also have to

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<v Speaker 2>factor in that Conyie was quite tall for her age

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<v Speaker 2>and had developed earlier than normal at age ten, So

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<v Speaker 2>you can see why she might have been an ideal

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<v Speaker 2>target for a group of bullying mean girls.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh yeah, I could absolutely see that.

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<v Speaker 4>And I could see where as a young girl who's

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<v Speaker 4>never been really a from your family and you're with

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<v Speaker 4>kiddos that don't have a whole lot of similarities with you,

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<v Speaker 4>feeling like the odd one out. You're more tomboyish, you

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<v Speaker 4>come from a different ranching style, not the big city,

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<v Speaker 4>And so I could see that kind of mean girl

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<v Speaker 4>mentality where she might be the target of kid's abuse.

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<v Speaker 4>I also could see where there's a chance that maybe

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<v Speaker 4>there's a young counselor or something there who gets into

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<v Speaker 4>an altercation with her. You know, they always have things

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<v Speaker 4>like junior counselors and kids that are fifteen sixteen helping

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<v Speaker 4>to lead a troop, and so who knows if there

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<v Speaker 4>was an issue like that, or even worse, an adult

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<v Speaker 4>who could have been targeting.

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<v Speaker 3>Connie as well.

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<v Speaker 4>But it's it's really interesting because if you remember us talking,

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<v Speaker 4>she had had visit from family members and talked about

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<v Speaker 4>actually wanting to stay longer.

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<v Speaker 3>So what's really.

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<v Speaker 4>Sad is it it sounds like this almost took a

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<v Speaker 4>really sudden turn for her where I feel like, had

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<v Speaker 4>she been a target, had she been bullied, especially physically hurt,

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<v Speaker 4>when her family visited, I don't think she'd be asking

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<v Speaker 4>to stay longer. I think she'd be like you to

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<v Speaker 4>get me out of here. But she wanted to stay.

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<v Speaker 2>More, yeah, exactly, which makes me wonder if something bad

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<v Speaker 2>didn't happen until after her visit from her family. And

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<v Speaker 2>it is kind of a shame that none of these

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<v Speaker 2>other kids have spoken out publicly about their experiences with Connie.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, at the time, obviously, because they were miners,

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to keep their identity secret. But I've kind

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<v Speaker 2>of hoped that as the years went on and they

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<v Speaker 2>became adults, more of them would have opened up and

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<v Speaker 2>confirmed that, yes, Connie was being treated badly or so

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<v Speaker 2>and so did this to her. But surprisingly they'd been

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<v Speaker 2>silent about it. So that's why I'm not willing to

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<v Speaker 2>rule out the possibility that maybe she was being tormented

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<v Speaker 2>by an adult, that maybe someone who worked for the

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<v Speaker 2>camp may have been molesting her or something, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>what caused her to run away. And because the predator

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<v Speaker 2>was the only one who knew about this, that's why

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<v Speaker 2>no one has ever found out about it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's interesting how Connie gave her mother and grandmother the

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<v Speaker 1>impression that she was having such a great time at camp.

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<v Speaker 1>It is possible that she was just putting on a

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<v Speaker 1>happy face to worrying them, particularly since Connie was reportedly

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<v Speaker 1>seen crying right after they left during their last visit.

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<v Speaker 1>And of course, Alice Walsh, one of the last witnesses

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<v Speaker 1>to see Connie on the morning she disappeared, would report

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<v Speaker 1>that Connie appeared to have been crying when she gave

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<v Speaker 1>her directions to Lakeville. If Connie's eyeglasses were broken intentionally

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<v Speaker 1>by her tent mates, then I'm guessing this was her

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<v Speaker 1>breaking point, since it sounds like she could barely see

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<v Speaker 1>anything at all without them. Since the kids were discouraged

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<v Speaker 1>from using the telephone at camp, it seems pretty believable

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<v Speaker 1>that Connie was heading into Lakeville in order to find

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<v Speaker 1>a payphone to call her mother and planned to ask

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<v Speaker 1>her to come pick her up and take her home.

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<v Speaker 1>But I also could not overlook the fact that Connie

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<v Speaker 1>was only about a half mile outside of Lakeville when

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<v Speaker 1>she was seen sticking out her thumb, and given that

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<v Speaker 1>she had already walked nearly a mile and a half

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<v Speaker 1>by this point, it's a bit odd that she would

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<v Speaker 1>elect a hitchhike when she was such a short distance away. Furthermore,

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<v Speaker 1>she knocked on Alice Walsh's front door to ask for

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<v Speaker 1>directions to Lakeville, So if Connie was planning to call

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<v Speaker 1>her mother, she could have conceivably asked whal she used

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<v Speaker 1>her phone, rather than finding a payphone in town. This

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<v Speaker 1>is what makes me wonder if perhaps Connie was hitchhiking

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<v Speaker 1>in hopes that somebody would give her a ride to

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<v Speaker 1>her grandmother's house in Greenwich, as it was located about

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<v Speaker 1>eighty miles south and her mother was spending the summer there.

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<v Speaker 1>But on the other hand, Connie did leave all her

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<v Speaker 1>extra clothing and belongings behind the camp, which seems to

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<v Speaker 1>indicate that she was planning to return at some point.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, that's the part that's really sad, because you think

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<v Speaker 4>about her trip to Alice Walsh's house. And so, like

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<v Speaker 4>you said, why not just ask to use her home phone?

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<v Speaker 3>Why would you continue to walk?

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<v Speaker 4>You had the confidence to go and knock on Alice

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<v Speaker 4>Walsh's front door, why not just say can you help me?

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<v Speaker 3>Can you help me? Call my mom?

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<v Speaker 4>I'm wondering, I'm wondering why why was she so set

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<v Speaker 4>on this location that she needed to go to that

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<v Speaker 4>was not convenient? It was not something we know her

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<v Speaker 4>to be familiar with, and it was such a determined

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<v Speaker 4>point it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's

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<v Speaker 4>almost like, if it was not a modern case, I'd

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<v Speaker 4>say it had someone connected with her own technology and

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<v Speaker 4>said meet me there. But this is an older case

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<v Speaker 4>that didn't happen in this one. So why why was

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<v Speaker 4>it that she needed to get to Lakesville?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is a big mystery. I mean, I have

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<v Speaker 2>thought about the possibility that if she was being groomed

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<v Speaker 2>by an adult, perhaps this person said leave the campgrounds

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<v Speaker 2>and meet me in Lakeville. But they checked with all

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<v Speaker 2>the witnesses there and no one recalled seeing her in

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<v Speaker 2>the town that morning, So it does seem clear that

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<v Speaker 2>something happened before she arrived. So you're thinking, if there

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<v Speaker 2>was some predator who was grooming her, why would they

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<v Speaker 2>pick her up before she even arrived in town unless

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<v Speaker 2>they wanted to do something to her before she was

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<v Speaker 2>seen by any more witnesses.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes a lot of sense. If you're going to

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<v Speaker 1>pick her up on the side of the road with

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<v Speaker 1>the least amount of eyeballs on her, you've got less

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<v Speaker 1>chance than any eye with seeing her once you go to town.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how big the town was, but it

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<v Speaker 1>sounds like you could then interact with a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these people. They could see your face, and then your

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<v Speaker 1>chance of being identified as being the last person with

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<v Speaker 1>her would kind of go up exponentially.

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<v Speaker 2>Now I should mention that there's been speculation that Camp

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<v Speaker 2>Sloane orchestrated some sort of cover up, especially since the

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<v Speaker 2>camp director, Ernest Roberts, had a bit of a shady history.

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<v Speaker 2>The camp was once implicated in a scandal when an

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<v Speaker 2>eleven year old boy died there in nineteen forty after

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<v Speaker 2>contracting septocemia. It turned out the camp's doctor at the

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<v Speaker 2>time was not licensed to practice medicine, and since Roberts

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<v Speaker 2>knew about this, he was arrested and received a fine

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<v Speaker 2>in spite of this. Roberts was still working against the

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<v Speaker 2>camp's director in nineteen fifty two and known for being

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<v Speaker 2>very protective of his camp's image. Since Connie was first

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<v Speaker 2>noticed to be missing at around eight forty five and

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<v Speaker 2>Roberts did not notify the police for nearly three hours,

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen presented is that Connie's bullying at the hands

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<v Speaker 2>of her tent mates escalated so out of control that

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<v Speaker 2>she wound up dead and everyone involved covered the whole

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<v Speaker 2>thing up by hiding her body. But I don't find

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<v Speaker 2>this likely at all. We have no fewer than nine

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<v Speaker 2>eye witnesses placing Knnie outside Camp Sloan on Indian Mountain

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<v Speaker 2>Road and Route forty four at the exact same time

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<v Speaker 2>the other campers would have been at the mess hall

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<v Speaker 2>having breakfast, so she clearly left of her own volition.

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<v Speaker 2>While Connie's tentmates may have done something to compel her

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<v Speaker 2>to walk away from the campground, they clearly had no

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<v Speaker 2>involvement in her actual disappearance. Another theory I've seen pushed

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<v Speaker 2>forward is that Connie was being molested by someone who

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<v Speaker 2>worked at the camp, which is why she appeared to

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<v Speaker 2>be so upset. That morning. Of course, that's certainly not impossible,

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<v Speaker 2>but no evidence was ever found to support this theory.

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<v Speaker 4>I've mentioned that already. I think it is a possibility.

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<v Speaker 4>I think again, it could be an older camper. I

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<v Speaker 4>think it could be an older youth helper because I

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<v Speaker 4>remember I remember being fish teen in charge of kids

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<v Speaker 4>at a summer camp, right, And it could be also.

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<v Speaker 4>And remember she looks older than she is, So if

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<v Speaker 4>a fifteen year old camp counselor thought she was thirteen,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, is that is that something that could have

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<v Speaker 4>been happening? And then you have the chance that maybe

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<v Speaker 4>there's an adult employee at the camp.

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<v Speaker 3>Now. To get away again, all you got to do is.

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<v Speaker 4>Get off that campground and get to somebody, and she

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<v Speaker 4>did that multiple times she was seen.

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<v Speaker 3>But again, this is a ten year old.

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<v Speaker 4>So I'm thinking, Okay, kiddo, get off the property, get

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<v Speaker 4>to someone who's safe, who's not related to the camp,

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<v Speaker 4>and ask for help. But at ten, does she have

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<v Speaker 4>a safe person in Lakesville? Does she have a place

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<v Speaker 4>they went on a field trip with camp, and she

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<v Speaker 4>knows if I could just get back to that ice

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<v Speaker 4>cream shop, if I could just get back to this place,

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<v Speaker 4>I could call my mom. You know, I got to

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<v Speaker 4>remind myself, this is a ten year old, so all

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<v Speaker 4>of the times I go, why didn't you just tell

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<v Speaker 4>someone or ask for help? We don't know what she

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<v Speaker 4>was thinking in the of a child.

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<v Speaker 1>I wish we knew more about the staff too. Like

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<v Speaker 1>I can think back to I went to Bible camp

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<v Speaker 1>when I was a little kid till from like I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know, maybe six until the age of ten, and

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<v Speaker 1>the last year that I went there, so I would

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<v Speaker 1>have been the same age. I remember being in love

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<v Speaker 1>with this camp counselor all the girls were. He was

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<v Speaker 1>about sixteen, and everybody called him mister Jeff. And so

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<v Speaker 1>I could see a situation or a scenario where somebody

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<v Speaker 1>who all these young girls think is super attractive, but

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<v Speaker 1>their children and that older individual could potentially groom them.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it's a scenario like that. So I can totally

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<v Speaker 1>see what you're saying, Ash, that makes complete sense. And

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<v Speaker 1>I could see a scenario where something happened and she

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<v Speaker 1>wasn't happy about it, and so she needed to get

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<v Speaker 1>off the grounds of the camp in order to seek help.

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<v Speaker 1>But she didn't feel safe calling from there, and she

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<v Speaker 1>needed to get that physical distance in order to feel safe.

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<v Speaker 2>That would make sense, Like it's never been specified if

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<v Speaker 2>she had ever been to Lake Phill before. I know,

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<v Speaker 2>ashe mentioned the possibility of a field trip, but I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know if they ever did that. So since she

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<v Speaker 2>had to stop past for directions, she probably was not

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with the area and maybe didn't know anyone was there.

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<v Speaker 2>But it could be, like you said, a thing where

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<v Speaker 2>she was upset because this older tamp counselor she had

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<v Speaker 2>a crush on was not interested in her. So she

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<v Speaker 2>just decided she had to leave the campground and go anywhere,

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<v Speaker 2>and it didn't really matter where.

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<v Speaker 3>It was, yeah, or was he interested in her?

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<v Speaker 4>And it went, it went, you know, quickly became a

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<v Speaker 4>physical thing, and she became uncomfortable and said, what just happened?

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<v Speaker 3>You know?

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<v Speaker 4>And again think about the time. This is back in

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<v Speaker 4>the fifties, and so they're not going to be able

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<v Speaker 4>to understand, no talk about any kind of inappropriate behavior

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<v Speaker 4>because it was very hush hush, you didn't talk about it,

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<v Speaker 4>and if you did talk about it, it was your fault.

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<v Speaker 4>And so I could see here if she was like, oh,

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<v Speaker 4>I love mister Jeff, he's so cute, and then mister

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<v Speaker 4>Jeff says, ooh, I think you're cute too, Connie, And

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<v Speaker 4>all of a sudden it goes from sweet to scary

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<v Speaker 4>and then too dangerous and then to hurtful. I could

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<v Speaker 4>see her really not knowing what else to do. I

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<v Speaker 4>just have to get away. And so back then, remember

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<v Speaker 4>she couldn't say, hey, this man just hurt me. This

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<v Speaker 4>man made me feel uncomfortable. She would have never even

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<v Speaker 4>heard what it means to be hurt by an adult. Right,

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00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:23.639
<v Speaker 4>all adults were trusted. You listen to your elders, You

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00:15:23.679 --> 00:15:26.519
<v Speaker 4>didn't talk back, you didn't talk bad about adults. So

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<v Speaker 4>very very different times she was living in too.

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<v Speaker 1>I totally get that. And I'm gonna share a story

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<v Speaker 1>with you guys. That is like the creepiest story about

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<v Speaker 1>my former neighbor who I was in love with. I

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<v Speaker 1>was twelve years old, if he lived next door to

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<v Speaker 1>my parents. He was in his last year of university,

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought he was so smart and so hot.

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<v Speaker 1>And I remember I would sit out in the summer

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<v Speaker 1>and I would read books on the patio so that

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<v Speaker 1>I could see him. He would lend me his books

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<v Speaker 1>and we would talk about books because something we were

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<v Speaker 1>both interested in. And then one day he invited me

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<v Speaker 1>over to go like look at his library or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was this I think he was twenty one

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<v Speaker 1>at the time. I was twelve. He tried to hook

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<v Speaker 1>up with me, and I remember just being like, oh

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<v Speaker 1>my god, I'm in love with him, but like, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not ready for this. What is happening. This is wrong,

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00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:18.480
<v Speaker 1>and I ran away and I never thought out on

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<v Speaker 1>my patio again. But you can see how a scenario

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<v Speaker 1>with somebody who's older, they can manipulate a situation and

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<v Speaker 1>they could potentially have put Connie in a situation that

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<v Speaker 1>she just wasn't ready for and that no child should

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<v Speaker 1>have been put in in the first place.

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<v Speaker 2>That's very creepy. Do you know whatever happened to that guy?

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<v Speaker 2>Did he ever get in trouble with the law?

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea. But the funny thing is his

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<v Speaker 1>mom used to be my second grade teacher, and she

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<v Speaker 1>used to be the mayor of where I grew up.

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<v Speaker 1>So I was one of those weird things where like

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<v Speaker 1>I literally never told anybody, because I don't think I've

337
00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:55.399
<v Speaker 1>ever told anybody this story so weird that I just

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00:16:55.440 --> 00:16:59.159
<v Speaker 1>said it. This podcast yeah, it just it just triggered

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00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:02.639
<v Speaker 1>that memory for me. It wasn't like he was forceful

340
00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:05.480
<v Speaker 1>or like whatever, But it's just the whole idea that

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<v Speaker 1>a twenty one year old is going to try to

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00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:11.319
<v Speaker 1>make a move sexually on a child is just creepy

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<v Speaker 1>enough as it is without any force being applied.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm so thankful as a mother because Jewels, you're not alone.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you for sharing that. That's scary, but I mean,

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<v Speaker 4>it happened, and so you're not alone. I mean I

347
00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.880
<v Speaker 4>can think back to many inappropriate age gap relationships that

348
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:29.039
<v Speaker 4>I had. They didn't go anywhere, right, there was no

349
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.200
<v Speaker 4>physical movement, but there was definitely emotional grooming. And so

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<v Speaker 4>I talk so openly with Reagan and my other baby.

351
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<v Speaker 4>I talk so openly about hey, this is what is real, right,

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00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:44.079
<v Speaker 4>this is what is safe conversation with an adult. You

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00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.400
<v Speaker 4>are never to be viewed as super special where you

354
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.240
<v Speaker 4>need alone time with them, right, There's no reason that

355
00:17:50.920 --> 00:17:53.480
<v Speaker 4>you need extra training with them alone, none of this.

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<v Speaker 4>Because you know you're special, but no adult needs to

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<v Speaker 4>single you out as so special that other students couldn't

358
00:18:01.200 --> 00:18:03.400
<v Speaker 4>be around you, right, or other people couldn't be with you,

359
00:18:03.599 --> 00:18:06.799
<v Speaker 4>or an older boy. As much as as cute as

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<v Speaker 4>he is, there's no reason you need to be alone

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<v Speaker 4>with him.

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<v Speaker 3>And here's why.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's sad we have to have those conversations. But again,

364
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<v Speaker 4>in Connie's day, they weren't having those conversations.

365
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<v Speaker 1>And I think it's so important that you're having those

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<v Speaker 1>conversations with Reagan and that you're letting her know that

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<v Speaker 1>that is not okay, because I could see a scenario

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<v Speaker 1>where if that went down differently for me, and pressure

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00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:31.720
<v Speaker 1>was applied and force was used, that there would be

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<v Speaker 1>that guilt and that shame and you wouldn't feel comfortable.

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<v Speaker 1>It would be like I was in love with him.

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<v Speaker 1>I did ABC and D, so maybe I was asking

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<v Speaker 1>for it would have been the way that my twelve

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<v Speaker 1>year old brain likely would have processed that. So I'm

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<v Speaker 1>glad that nothing happened, but I'm so happy that today

376
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<v Speaker 1>these conversations are being had with young girls and young women,

377
00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>that there are these people out here who will try

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00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.519
<v Speaker 1>to take advantage of you, and it can look like love,

379
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:05.079
<v Speaker 1>but it definitely isn't that. The fact of the matter

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00:19:05.279 --> 00:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>is that the last confirmed sighting of Connie occurred on

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<v Speaker 1>Route forty four, a half mile outside of Lakeville at

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<v Speaker 1>eight forty five am. Even though the village was a

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<v Speaker 1>pretty busy place at that time of the morning because

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<v Speaker 1>a number of people were opening up their businesses, none

385
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:23.599
<v Speaker 1>of them remembered seeing Connie, so it's very likely that

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00:19:23.640 --> 00:19:26.559
<v Speaker 1>an unknown motorist picked up Connie before she made it

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00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:30.400
<v Speaker 1>to Lakeville. Another sad detail about this case is that

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<v Speaker 1>many of the witnesses who saw or interacted with Connie

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00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.880
<v Speaker 1>after she left the camp that morning have expressed regret

390
00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:39.799
<v Speaker 1>that they didn't do more to assist her. They pretty

391
00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:42.839
<v Speaker 1>much all mistakenly assumed that Connie was a teenager and

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<v Speaker 1>were genuinely surprised to learn that she was only ten

393
00:19:45.799 --> 00:19:49.559
<v Speaker 1>years old. It probably should have been a major warning

394
00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>sign to see a ten year old hitchhiking, but from

395
00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:54.960
<v Speaker 1>a brief glance at her, the witnesses probably thought she

396
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.359
<v Speaker 1>was old enough to fend for herself. You also have

397
00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.039
<v Speaker 1>to remember that nineteen fift was simply a much different time,

398
00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.400
<v Speaker 1>and a young girl being abducted or murdered while walking

399
00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:08.640
<v Speaker 1>alone down a country road on a sunny morning was

400
00:20:08.799 --> 00:20:11.160
<v Speaker 1>just not a thought which popped into most people's heads

401
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:15.039
<v Speaker 1>back then. Whatever happened, it sounds like there is no

402
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.359
<v Speaker 1>lack of effort to find Connie, and I imagine that

403
00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:21.519
<v Speaker 1>if a disappearance like this took place today involving a

404
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:25.160
<v Speaker 1>girl from an affluent family whose grandfather was a former governor,

405
00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:29.359
<v Speaker 1>it would be all over the media NonStop. Since Connie's

406
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.240
<v Speaker 1>parents were divorced during a time period, but that sort

407
00:20:32.279 --> 00:20:35.240
<v Speaker 1>of thing was a lot more uncommon. There was some

408
00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>initial speculation that one parent may have kidnap Connie to

409
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.559
<v Speaker 1>keep her away from the other, but that theory doesn't

410
00:20:42.559 --> 00:20:45.960
<v Speaker 1>make sense at all, since the Smith's divorce was pretty amicable,

411
00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.880
<v Speaker 1>as both parents got to live on the same property

412
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:53.079
<v Speaker 1>and see Connie whenever they wanted. The ransom kidnapping theory

413
00:20:53.240 --> 00:20:56.680
<v Speaker 1>also doesn't work, as it's very unlikely that anyone could

414
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:59.720
<v Speaker 1>have predicted Connie would leave the camp and be walking

415
00:20:59.759 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 1>down the road alone on that particular morning.

416
00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:04.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I agree.

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00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:06.519
<v Speaker 4>At first, I had asked, is there any chance that

418
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:09.480
<v Speaker 4>someone knew she was the governor's daughter and that you know,

419
00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:12.160
<v Speaker 4>her granddaughter, and that you know, maybe she was going

420
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.240
<v Speaker 4>to be at this camp. But again, how the heck

421
00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:16.240
<v Speaker 4>would they even know she had left the camp? All

422
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:18.720
<v Speaker 4>of these things just don't line up, and so it's

423
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.359
<v Speaker 4>either one of two things. To me. Somebody had told

424
00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:23.680
<v Speaker 4>her you need to meet me in Lakeville, and it's

425
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:26.480
<v Speaker 4>an adult or an older person grooming her. You meet

426
00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:28.400
<v Speaker 4>me there, I'm going to take you away. I'm gonna

427
00:21:28.440 --> 00:21:31.000
<v Speaker 4>rescue you from this right, making her some kind of promise.

428
00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:33.680
<v Speaker 4>I'll help you get home to your family. Whatever it is,

429
00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:36.880
<v Speaker 4>someone's told her to go, or she's just set off

430
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:39.720
<v Speaker 4>ready to go. She doesn't have anyone she's meeting. She

431
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.079
<v Speaker 4>just has a goal to get to Lakeville and then

432
00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.440
<v Speaker 4>has some other plan and she's abducted by an opportunistic

433
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.480
<v Speaker 4>offender and predator. I think the second one I don't know.

434
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:49.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

435
00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm torn between those two. But go back to what

436
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:56.000
<v Speaker 4>you said just a second ago, when you said many

437
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.160
<v Speaker 4>of these people either expressed or surely fell.

438
00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Like they had failed, Connie.

439
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm telling you, oh my lord, even with the information

440
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:09.400
<v Speaker 4>that I have today, there have been times as a woman,

441
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:12.640
<v Speaker 4>a mother, a sister, a daughter, that I've seen things

442
00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.880
<v Speaker 4>and it's eaten me alive that i didn't say something.

443
00:22:16.079 --> 00:22:17.839
<v Speaker 4>And then there's times that I've said something and I've

444
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:21.839
<v Speaker 4>looked like an absolute lunatic and so even today, having

445
00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:25.960
<v Speaker 4>all this knowledge and being someone who's very aware of

446
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:29.720
<v Speaker 4>the realities of criminal behavior and victimization and things like that,

447
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:33.839
<v Speaker 4>I struggle to say, Hey, I'm going to do something

448
00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:37.119
<v Speaker 4>more here, right, I'm going to make an assumption that

449
00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:39.559
<v Speaker 4>something bad is going on here, and I'm going to

450
00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:40.359
<v Speaker 4>say something.

451
00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:42.680
<v Speaker 3>I've lost friends over it.

452
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:47.079
<v Speaker 4>I've separated, you know, Reagan from friends, and it's been heartbreaking.

453
00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 4>And sometimes I'm wrong and I feel like a fool.

454
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:53.480
<v Speaker 4>And then sometimes I don't say anything and I feel heartbroken.

455
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.839
<v Speaker 4>And so it's a hard thing now to navigate, but

456
00:22:57.279 --> 00:22:59.359
<v Speaker 4>I do try to say things like I remember we

457
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:01.599
<v Speaker 4>had a little girl over and she was messaging this

458
00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:05.200
<v Speaker 4>quote seventeen year old boy. She's like thirteen, And I

459
00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 4>called her mom and I said, we don't have a

460
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.720
<v Speaker 4>cell phone here. I don't mind that your baby has

461
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:11.240
<v Speaker 4>a cell phone to check in, but I wanted to

462
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:15.319
<v Speaker 4>know that she's supposedly messaging with an older boy. And

463
00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:17.279
<v Speaker 4>I said, if it was me, I would want her

464
00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:18.680
<v Speaker 4>cell phone and I would want to know who she

465
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:21.640
<v Speaker 4>was communicating with. Sure Enough, when that baby got home

466
00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:23.799
<v Speaker 4>and mom got her phone, it was a twenty two

467
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:26.680
<v Speaker 4>year old boy who was grooming this thirteen year old child.

468
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.200
<v Speaker 4>And so you know, sometimes you say it you're right,

469
00:23:29.279 --> 00:23:31.200
<v Speaker 4>sometimes you say it you're wrong, and sometimes you don't

470
00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:33.880
<v Speaker 4>know how to say it. So back in the fifties,

471
00:23:33.960 --> 00:23:36.559
<v Speaker 4>can you imagine you see this young kid crying walking

472
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:38.000
<v Speaker 4>down the road that you think is a teenager. We

473
00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:41.200
<v Speaker 4>didn't talk about domestic violence, we didn't talk about sexual abuse,

474
00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:43.400
<v Speaker 4>and we just didn't talk about trauma in general. So

475
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:45.839
<v Speaker 4>whatever was going on, I'm sure they said, like, that's

476
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:48.759
<v Speaker 4>their business, she'll figure it out and she's safe. So

477
00:23:49.160 --> 00:23:51.799
<v Speaker 4>I mean, yes, would they feel guilt, but should they

478
00:23:52.279 --> 00:23:55.440
<v Speaker 4>know it's it? They didn't know that something was going on,

479
00:23:55.480 --> 00:23:58.680
<v Speaker 4>Nor did they know that they're likely was an opportunistic

480
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:00.000
<v Speaker 4>predator waiting around the corner.

481
00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, definitely. Like this is not the first case

482
00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:06.680
<v Speaker 2>I've seen involving missing children from like the nineteen forties

483
00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:10.119
<v Speaker 2>or nineteen fifties where people just felt they should have

484
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.480
<v Speaker 2>done more where they saw a child in a situation

485
00:24:12.559 --> 00:24:15.039
<v Speaker 2>that could have been potentially dangerous, but they just didn't

486
00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.000
<v Speaker 2>think that way because it was a much more innocent time.

487
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.519
<v Speaker 2>I recently did a case about three boys who went

488
00:24:20.559 --> 00:24:23.319
<v Speaker 2>missing from the nineteen fifties, and their parents were approached

489
00:24:23.319 --> 00:24:25.960
<v Speaker 2>with the idea that they were allured by the child predator,

490
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:28.400
<v Speaker 2>and they flat out said, we had no idea that

491
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:31.880
<v Speaker 2>child predators or child molesters even existed back then, and

492
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:33.720
<v Speaker 2>the first time when they told us about it, because

493
00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:36.480
<v Speaker 2>you just didn't learn about that stuff back in the fifties.

494
00:24:36.519 --> 00:24:39.079
<v Speaker 2>And it's because of cases where children go missing and

495
00:24:39.079 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 2>are harmed that they've now learned to be more cautious.

496
00:24:42.960 --> 00:24:45.960
<v Speaker 2>This definitely seems like a crime up opportunity from a predator.

497
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:49.279
<v Speaker 2>So let's look at possible suspects. I guess the most

498
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:52.559
<v Speaker 2>prominent one is William Henry Redmond, whom we know already

499
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:55.400
<v Speaker 2>murdered one girl the year before Connie went missing, and

500
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 2>allegedly confessed to killing at least three more girls which

501
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:01.319
<v Speaker 2>were never linked to them. Redman has been looked at

502
00:25:01.319 --> 00:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>as a possible suspect in numerous cold cases from the

503
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:08.480
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifties involving young girls, including the unsolved nineteen fifty

504
00:25:08.519 --> 00:25:11.920
<v Speaker 2>one disappearance of ten year old Beverly Potts, who vanished

505
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.680
<v Speaker 2>while attending a summer festival at a park in Cleveland.

506
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Redmond did have a nomadic lifestyle as a carnival worker

507
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:20.920
<v Speaker 2>during this time period, a profession which allowed him to

508
00:25:20.960 --> 00:25:23.279
<v Speaker 2>travel to different states and be in the company of

509
00:25:23.359 --> 00:25:26.759
<v Speaker 2>numerous potential victims to prey on. However, it's worth noting

510
00:25:26.799 --> 00:25:29.839
<v Speaker 2>that by the time Connie disappeared, Redmond was already a

511
00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.240
<v Speaker 2>wanted fugitive for the murder of Jane Marie Althoff, and

512
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:35.279
<v Speaker 2>no one could find him until he was tracked down

513
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 2>in Nebraska over three decades later, so they'd never been

514
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:41.559
<v Speaker 2>able to determine if Redmond could have been in Connecticut

515
00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.559
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen fifty two. The only reason Redmen even popped

516
00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>up on the radar as a potential suspect was because

517
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.880
<v Speaker 2>of a state trooper, Leo Turkhot, remembering an odd phone

518
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:54.920
<v Speaker 2>call he received from a man named William Dugan who

519
00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.839
<v Speaker 2>said he was a former carnival worker who had information

520
00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:02.200
<v Speaker 2>about Connie's disappearance. It's pretty amazing that Turcott was able

521
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:05.079
<v Speaker 2>to remember this phone call nearly thirty three years later,

522
00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.400
<v Speaker 2>so kudos to him. But other than the former carnival

523
00:26:08.400 --> 00:26:11.359
<v Speaker 2>worker connection, there really isn't much else to suggest that

524
00:26:11.400 --> 00:26:15.079
<v Speaker 2>Redmond might have been the mysterious William Dugan. I would

525
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.000
<v Speaker 2>not be surprised at all if Redmond really was responsible

526
00:26:18.039 --> 00:26:20.519
<v Speaker 2>for the mergers of three other girls. But there really

527
00:26:20.559 --> 00:26:24.279
<v Speaker 2>isn't anything to conclusively prove or disprove that he cross

528
00:26:24.319 --> 00:26:27.279
<v Speaker 2>paths with Connie, and the connection to him is tenuous

529
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:31.160
<v Speaker 2>at best. It is unfortunate that Redmond was already seriously

530
00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:33.720
<v Speaker 2>ill by the time he was arrested, as this may

531
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:37.559
<v Speaker 2>have prevented information about additional crimes he committed from surfcing.

532
00:26:38.880 --> 00:26:39.519
<v Speaker 3>Oh for sure.

533
00:26:39.599 --> 00:26:41.680
<v Speaker 4>I mean, is it possible that he was linked to this.

534
00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:44.759
<v Speaker 4>It's possible, but I think it's a very very loose connection.

535
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:48.920
<v Speaker 4>It's just interesting, right, But what's really intriguing to me

536
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.400
<v Speaker 4>is that you'll hear these cases where Okay, we know

537
00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 4>that there was this known child sex predator writer, there's

538
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.640
<v Speaker 4>this known assailant that has this mo that travels from

539
00:26:59.640 --> 00:27:02.640
<v Speaker 4>here to hear to hear. But what's the scarier reality

540
00:27:03.079 --> 00:27:05.680
<v Speaker 4>is that there's probably ten men just like him in

541
00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.599
<v Speaker 4>that town. So it's like, you know, are they abusing

542
00:27:08.640 --> 00:27:09.799
<v Speaker 4>and then killing the kids?

543
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:10.000
<v Speaker 1>No?

544
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:13.599
<v Speaker 4>Are there people that are predating on our children in

545
00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:14.640
<v Speaker 4>our communities?

546
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:15.039
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

547
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:17.839
<v Speaker 4>And so are there these people that we say, oh,

548
00:27:17.960 --> 00:27:20.440
<v Speaker 4>was there any link to Connecticut? You know, how many

549
00:27:20.519 --> 00:27:26.200
<v Speaker 4>people in Connecticut would have been prone to hurt somebody

550
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:30.160
<v Speaker 4>if given the opportunity. So, yes, it's possible, But my goodness,

551
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:34.480
<v Speaker 4>I bet there were thousands of very questionable men in

552
00:27:34.519 --> 00:27:38.119
<v Speaker 4>that area, right in that state that they could have said, oh,

553
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:40.400
<v Speaker 4>we know this person's record, we know this person's record.

554
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.759
<v Speaker 4>And then I'm even more horrifying, what about the ones

555
00:27:42.759 --> 00:27:45.000
<v Speaker 4>who have never been caught that are doing this to children?

556
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:49.839
<v Speaker 4>So Connie is, let's say taken and possibly killed, But

557
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.200
<v Speaker 4>that doesn't mean there weren't other children before that that

558
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:54.640
<v Speaker 4>were attacked and abused by this person and maybe not

559
00:27:54.799 --> 00:27:57.160
<v Speaker 4>killed or raised such a media fuzz.

560
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:00.559
<v Speaker 1>It feels like Henry le Lucas, Like it isn't always

561
00:28:00.599 --> 00:28:01.039
<v Speaker 1>Henry le.

562
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:04.799
<v Speaker 4>Lucas right right right where they're looking for someone who

563
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:06.160
<v Speaker 4>has this repetitive history.

564
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:08.920
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, we see that a lot in missing children's

565
00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:12.680
<v Speaker 2>cases today, where investigators will check into the nose registered

566
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:14.920
<v Speaker 2>sex offenders living in the same area and then you

567
00:28:14.960 --> 00:28:17.359
<v Speaker 2>find out, wow, that's a lot of sex offenders. I

568
00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:20.400
<v Speaker 2>had no idea there were so many living together, that

569
00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:23.039
<v Speaker 2>so many of them existed, And I can only imagine

570
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:25.079
<v Speaker 2>what it was like back then in the nineteen fifties

571
00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 2>where there was no sex offender registry. So you have

572
00:28:28.559 --> 00:28:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people possibly living in this community who

573
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.000
<v Speaker 2>have harmed and abused children, but nobody knows about it.

574
00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:37.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I challenge everybody to go look up their address.

575
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.200
<v Speaker 3>It's horrifying. I'm like, oh.

576
00:28:39.079 --> 00:28:43.160
<v Speaker 4>Wait, what a level three offender three doors down. That's adorable.

577
00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:47.799
<v Speaker 4>You know, it's really really scary. And sometimes it's people

578
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:50.440
<v Speaker 4>you would not suspect. When we listen to the news

579
00:28:50.480 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 4>and we're watching, you go oh wow, okay, And they're

580
00:28:54.720 --> 00:28:58.319
<v Speaker 4>quite common and now today they're recognized. Back in the fifties,

581
00:28:58.680 --> 00:29:01.079
<v Speaker 4>they didn't even recognize that. You wouldn't have gotten punished

582
00:29:01.079 --> 00:29:03.960
<v Speaker 4>probably if you were caught hurting children. So children were

583
00:29:04.200 --> 00:29:08.279
<v Speaker 4>part property and the myths and misconceptions around abuse of

584
00:29:08.359 --> 00:29:12.720
<v Speaker 4>children was very disturbing back then. So, man, this is

585
00:29:12.759 --> 00:29:16.240
<v Speaker 4>complicated now.

586
00:29:16.400 --> 00:29:20.039
<v Speaker 1>One lead involving a potential suspect, which turned out to

587
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:23.519
<v Speaker 1>be a hoax, was the confession by Frederick Pope, who

588
00:29:23.519 --> 00:29:27.240
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he ended accomplice Jack Walker, picked up Connie

589
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:31.480
<v Speaker 1>hitchhiking before Walker killed her, They buried her remains, and

590
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:35.359
<v Speaker 1>he killed Walker in retaliation. Well, I see no reason

591
00:29:35.440 --> 00:29:38.680
<v Speaker 1>to believe this story is true, as the red flag

592
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:41.200
<v Speaker 1>was his claim that Connie wanted to ride back home

593
00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.119
<v Speaker 1>to Wyoming. Given that Wyoming is nearly two thousand miles

594
00:29:45.119 --> 00:29:48.039
<v Speaker 1>away from Connecticut, I find it a lot more likely

595
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.319
<v Speaker 1>that if Connie wanted to visit her parents, she would

596
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:53.200
<v Speaker 1>have asked for a ride to see her mother in

597
00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:57.119
<v Speaker 1>Greenwich instead. It became a parent that Pope completely made

598
00:29:57.119 --> 00:30:01.200
<v Speaker 1>the story up and that this Jack Walker never existed.

599
00:30:02.880 --> 00:30:06.000
<v Speaker 1>But the only reason we've mentioned this again is because

600
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.799
<v Speaker 1>of the fact that Pope claimed that Connie's remains were

601
00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:13.240
<v Speaker 1>buried in Arizona. Pope's confession took place in nineteen fifty three.

602
00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:17.640
<v Speaker 1>Little Miss X's remains were discovered in Arizona five years later,

603
00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.480
<v Speaker 1>and the Connecticut State Police received an anonymous letter from

604
00:30:21.559 --> 00:30:25.680
<v Speaker 1>Colorado claiming little Miss X was Connie in nineteen sixty two,

605
00:30:26.920 --> 00:30:28.799
<v Speaker 1>and as far as I know, the writer of the

606
00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>letter has never been identified. The Arizona connection is probably

607
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:36.559
<v Speaker 1>nothing more than a coincidence. And I know that Connie's

608
00:30:36.559 --> 00:30:39.680
<v Speaker 1>case received a whole bunch of false tips, but this

609
00:30:39.799 --> 00:30:43.559
<v Speaker 1>situation is pretty odd. A bunch of ten year anniversary

610
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.519
<v Speaker 1>articles were published about Connie's case during the summer of

611
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:50.240
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty two, so it's probably not surprising that the

612
00:30:50.279 --> 00:30:53.240
<v Speaker 1>police got some new leads. But how did this letter

613
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:57.759
<v Speaker 1>writer know about little Miss X. These days, online sleus

614
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:01.119
<v Speaker 1>try to match up missing people and una identified decedents

615
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:03.799
<v Speaker 1>all the time by looking up their profile pages at

616
00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.880
<v Speaker 1>websites like the Dough Network. But this was the pre

617
00:31:06.960 --> 00:31:10.640
<v Speaker 1>internet world of nineteen sixty two, and Arizona and Connecticut

618
00:31:10.680 --> 00:31:13.960
<v Speaker 1>are a great distance apart. So I wonder who might

619
00:31:13.960 --> 00:31:16.880
<v Speaker 1>have had the knowledge about both of these cases, as

620
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.279
<v Speaker 1>I don't think little Miss X got nearly as much

621
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>publicity as Connie's disappearance did. So now we have to

622
00:31:23.480 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 1>talk more about little Miss X, which is quite an

623
00:31:26.599 --> 00:31:30.319
<v Speaker 1>interesting unsolved mystery in its own right. For starters, I'm

624
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:33.039
<v Speaker 1>going to express my skepticism that little Miss X and

625
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:35.839
<v Speaker 1>CONNYE are one and the same. I know there's been

626
00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.119
<v Speaker 1>a lot of debate about whether the methods used to

627
00:31:38.279 --> 00:31:41.279
<v Speaker 1>rule Kanye out via dental records in nineteen sixty two

628
00:31:41.319 --> 00:31:44.480
<v Speaker 1>were accurate, but even if you ignore all that, the

629
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:47.920
<v Speaker 1>facts just don't fit. Little Miss X was believed to

630
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:50.920
<v Speaker 1>have been dead approximately nine to eighteen months before her

631
00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:54.160
<v Speaker 1>remains were found but kanye had been missing for over

632
00:31:54.279 --> 00:31:57.880
<v Speaker 1>six years by that point. Unless someone abducted Kanyie and

633
00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:00.519
<v Speaker 1>was holding her in captivity for a few years before

634
00:32:00.559 --> 00:32:03.519
<v Speaker 1>she was killed, it doesn't make sense for the remains

635
00:32:03.519 --> 00:32:07.119
<v Speaker 1>to be her, especially when you consider that Arizona is

636
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:10.160
<v Speaker 1>on the opposite side of the country. But the big

637
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:13.400
<v Speaker 1>question is if little Miss X isn't Connie, then.

638
00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:13.839
<v Speaker 3>Who is she?

639
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:18.400
<v Speaker 4>That's exactly right, So little Miss X has a family too,

640
00:32:18.599 --> 00:32:21.680
<v Speaker 4>Little Miss X, no matter what kind of background she had,

641
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.400
<v Speaker 4>she's somebody's person. And so the fact that there was

642
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:29.599
<v Speaker 4>this little unidentified body there and then we're also still

643
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:33.799
<v Speaker 4>missing Connie is incredibly traumatic. I don't think that little

644
00:32:33.799 --> 00:32:36.759
<v Speaker 4>Miss X and Connie are the same person. My what

645
00:32:36.880 --> 00:32:41.000
<v Speaker 4>I would give if we could compare them now, because

646
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.960
<v Speaker 4>we do have relatives who have signed up to have

647
00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:47.839
<v Speaker 4>DNA on file four Connie, and so if little Miss X,

648
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:51.200
<v Speaker 4>if we had any kind of remnants of that that

649
00:32:51.240 --> 00:32:54.000
<v Speaker 4>little girl in her remains, then you'd be able to

650
00:32:54.160 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 4>conclusively say, because when there's that question mark, it's a

651
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.160
<v Speaker 4>lead still. But in my mind, this is not the

652
00:33:00.160 --> 00:33:00.759
<v Speaker 4>same person.

653
00:33:02.519 --> 00:33:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, the most bizarre aspect of this case is that

654
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:07.839
<v Speaker 2>even though little Miss X's remains were unclothed when she

655
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.839
<v Speaker 2>was found. The clothing suddenly appeared when the scene was

656
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 2>searched again a short time later. On the surface, it

657
00:33:14.519 --> 00:33:17.440
<v Speaker 2>appears like the clothing was planted there, and even if

658
00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:20.680
<v Speaker 2>you believe investigators simply missed it during the initial search,

659
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.480
<v Speaker 2>the clothes still appeared to be way too big for

660
00:33:23.559 --> 00:33:26.240
<v Speaker 2>Little Miss X and probably did not belong to her.

661
00:33:26.920 --> 00:33:29.279
<v Speaker 2>So now we have to sag into our third unsolved

662
00:33:29.279 --> 00:33:32.119
<v Speaker 2>cold case on this series of episodes, and that's the

663
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.759
<v Speaker 2>disappearances of Michael Griffin and Donnis Pinky Redman. They went

664
00:33:36.880 --> 00:33:40.279
<v Speaker 2>missing eight months before Little Miss X was found, and man,

665
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:42.920
<v Speaker 2>I really wish there was more information out there about

666
00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:45.920
<v Speaker 2>this one. The only sources I could find were their

667
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:48.839
<v Speaker 2>profile page is at the Charlie Project and the Dough Network,

668
00:33:49.079 --> 00:33:51.759
<v Speaker 2>which only have brief summaries and leave me with so

669
00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 2>many questions. There are good reasons to believe there might

670
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>be a connection to the Little Miss X case. A

671
00:33:57.799 --> 00:34:00.960
<v Speaker 2>nail file case with the initials p R, which possibly

672
00:34:01.000 --> 00:34:04.200
<v Speaker 2>stood for Pinky Redmen, were found near the scene. The

673
00:34:04.279 --> 00:34:07.160
<v Speaker 2>clothing Pinky was last seen wearing seems similar to the

674
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:10.719
<v Speaker 2>clothes that were there and Michael's abandoned car was discovered

675
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:14.519
<v Speaker 2>in the nearby town of Williams. Little Miss X's profile

676
00:34:14.559 --> 00:34:17.480
<v Speaker 2>page of the Dough Network says that Pinky was excluded

677
00:34:17.519 --> 00:34:21.079
<v Speaker 2>as being her, but it doesn't specify how they determined that,

678
00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:23.840
<v Speaker 2>since they've been unable to find little Miss X's remains

679
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:27.320
<v Speaker 2>and extract DNA from her. But I think they probably

680
00:34:27.360 --> 00:34:29.960
<v Speaker 2>came to that conclusion based on the fact that little

681
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Miss X had reddish brown hair and may have been Hispanic,

682
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:37.679
<v Speaker 2>whereas Pinky was pale skinned and had strawberry blonde hair. However,

683
00:34:37.679 --> 00:34:40.199
<v Speaker 2>if the clothing and nail file case found near Little

684
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.519
<v Speaker 2>Miss X's murder scene did belong to Pinky, then I

685
00:34:43.599 --> 00:34:46.599
<v Speaker 2>have to believe the cases are connected, because it would

686
00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:50.480
<v Speaker 2>otherwise be a massive coincidence that evidence from two separate

687
00:34:50.519 --> 00:34:53.559
<v Speaker 2>crimes would be disposed of in that same remote area.

688
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I suppose an alternate explanation is that whoever was responsible

689
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:01.199
<v Speaker 2>for Pinky's disappearance read about the discovery of Little Miss

690
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:04.320
<v Speaker 2>X in the papers and then decided to plant Pinky's

691
00:35:04.320 --> 00:35:08.360
<v Speaker 2>items at the scene, hoping that investigators would automatically assume

692
00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:11.920
<v Speaker 2>they belonged to little Miss X. It's possible that little

693
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Miss X, Pinky Redman, and Michael Griffin were all murdered

694
00:35:15.519 --> 00:35:18.440
<v Speaker 2>by the same person, but since Michael was never found,

695
00:35:18.599 --> 00:35:21.000
<v Speaker 2>for all we know, perhaps he could have killed the

696
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 2>two females and went on the run. But without more

697
00:35:24.159 --> 00:35:28.280
<v Speaker 2>information about Michael and Pinky's cases, I can't make any conclusions.

698
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:32.480
<v Speaker 2>This whole story involving Little Miss X, Pinky, and Michael

699
00:35:32.679 --> 00:35:35.800
<v Speaker 2>is a pretty intriguing mystery within a mystery, but I

700
00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 2>ultimately feel it doesn't have any connection to Connie's disappearance.

701
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:43.039
<v Speaker 2>All that being said, it sounds like investigators from the

702
00:35:43.079 --> 00:35:47.000
<v Speaker 2>Coconino County Sheriff's Office were making a concerted effort to

703
00:35:47.079 --> 00:35:50.000
<v Speaker 2>try and find Little Miss X's burial spots and recover

704
00:35:50.039 --> 00:35:53.320
<v Speaker 2>her remains, and I definitely hope they're successful and are

705
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:56.679
<v Speaker 2>able to extract some DNA. Even though I don't believe

706
00:35:56.719 --> 00:35:59.519
<v Speaker 2>she is Connie, little Miss X is still a murdered child,

707
00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 2>was gone unclaim for nearly seventy years, and extracting your

708
00:36:03.159 --> 00:36:05.519
<v Speaker 2>DNA will go a long way at helping her get

709
00:36:05.519 --> 00:36:06.159
<v Speaker 2>her name back.

710
00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:12.199
<v Speaker 4>Oh yeah, absolutely, It's this sad reality that without being claimed,

711
00:36:12.239 --> 00:36:14.840
<v Speaker 4>without having any kind of identity, she was put in

712
00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:18.519
<v Speaker 4>this kind of community burial grave. And so to know

713
00:36:18.559 --> 00:36:21.920
<v Speaker 4>where that exactly is, to know where her little remains

714
00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:25.440
<v Speaker 4>exactly are and not mixed in with other peoples. It's

715
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:28.760
<v Speaker 4>really difficult for people to do. And so my prayer

716
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:30.559
<v Speaker 4>would be that they could find that and then they

717
00:36:30.599 --> 00:36:34.480
<v Speaker 4>could say, hey, listen, we need to run this these

718
00:36:34.519 --> 00:36:37.360
<v Speaker 4>remains through a DNA database and see what we can

719
00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:40.159
<v Speaker 4>find and see. I don't think they're going to match

720
00:36:40.199 --> 00:36:43.239
<v Speaker 4>Connie either, but I do wonder is there any way

721
00:36:43.239 --> 00:36:45.199
<v Speaker 4>it could be linked back to Pinky? Is there any

722
00:36:45.199 --> 00:36:48.159
<v Speaker 4>way we could have a connection or identify who this

723
00:36:48.199 --> 00:36:50.440
<v Speaker 4>little girl is so that she's not in this mass

724
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:53.559
<v Speaker 4>burial grave, that she has her own little headstone, and

725
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:56.519
<v Speaker 4>that she has recognition because she had a life. And

726
00:36:56.559 --> 00:36:58.840
<v Speaker 4>like I said, I don't care what kind of family

727
00:36:58.880 --> 00:37:02.039
<v Speaker 4>life she had or what kind of child she had become,

728
00:37:03.119 --> 00:37:04.679
<v Speaker 4>you know, if she had run away, if she had

729
00:37:04.679 --> 00:37:07.760
<v Speaker 4>become a thrown away child, those kinds of things. It's

730
00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.000
<v Speaker 4>still a human being who had a name, who had

731
00:37:10.039 --> 00:37:13.400
<v Speaker 4>a story, who had a legacy right and so to

732
00:37:13.440 --> 00:37:15.719
<v Speaker 4>have her name would be profound. But at this time

733
00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:18.760
<v Speaker 4>it seems like a really complicated effort to get to that,

734
00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:21.960
<v Speaker 4>And I'm wondering, with all the unsolved more recent cases,

735
00:37:22.239 --> 00:37:26.159
<v Speaker 4>are there still people pushing for that those the case

736
00:37:26.239 --> 00:37:28.519
<v Speaker 4>that had the p on it for maybe linking it

737
00:37:28.559 --> 00:37:32.480
<v Speaker 4>to Pinky. It's really really interesting and when we talk

738
00:37:32.519 --> 00:37:34.719
<v Speaker 4>about this is kind of a remote area, what's the

739
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:37.880
<v Speaker 4>chances that these multiple different murders are having things dumped

740
00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:40.880
<v Speaker 4>in this site if it's the same person. There is

741
00:37:40.920 --> 00:37:44.639
<v Speaker 4>a chance if there's one person who's disposing of all

742
00:37:44.719 --> 00:37:47.519
<v Speaker 4>of these individuals and their things because it's a place

743
00:37:47.559 --> 00:37:50.039
<v Speaker 4>they felt safe, it's a place that they're familiar with,

744
00:37:50.079 --> 00:37:53.360
<v Speaker 4>and they know that it's remote. And so while it

745
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 4>would be odd to go and dump something after another

746
00:37:56.159 --> 00:37:59.000
<v Speaker 4>one of your victims, you know, body has been found,

747
00:37:59.039 --> 00:38:02.760
<v Speaker 4>would be really really risky. But what if they weren't

748
00:38:04.119 --> 00:38:05.599
<v Speaker 4>you know, what if they weren't worried about that. What

749
00:38:05.639 --> 00:38:07.840
<v Speaker 4>if they're to a point where they have no emotional

750
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.280
<v Speaker 4>attachment to what they're doing and they said, who cares,

751
00:38:10.280 --> 00:38:12.000
<v Speaker 4>that's my dumping side, I'm gonna go dump some more

752
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:13.519
<v Speaker 4>and kind of laugh in the face of police.

753
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:16.159
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, And that sort of thing does happen where

754
00:38:16.199 --> 00:38:19.159
<v Speaker 2>sometimes killers are familiar with certain areas, so they decided

755
00:38:19.199 --> 00:38:21.800
<v Speaker 2>to dump all the remains of their victims and all

756
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.519
<v Speaker 2>their evidence there, And it would not surprise me if

757
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:27.920
<v Speaker 2>maybe they killed Little Miss X and then later killed

758
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Pinky and Michael, that they decided to come back to

759
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:34.320
<v Speaker 2>this location and dump the evidence there. But if they

760
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:36.519
<v Speaker 2>can find little Miss X's remains, I don't think it's

761
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.559
<v Speaker 2>impossible she could be identified because a couple of years

762
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 2>ago they actually managed to identify another deceased child who

763
00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.039
<v Speaker 2>was discovered in Arizona all the way back in nineteen

764
00:38:46.119 --> 00:38:49.880
<v Speaker 2>sixty and went by the nickname little Miss Nobody, And

765
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:53.440
<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty two, they used DNA testing to identify

766
00:38:53.519 --> 00:38:56.760
<v Speaker 2>or as a missing child named Sharon Lee Diegos. So

767
00:38:57.039 --> 00:38:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I do truly believe that if they can find little

768
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:02.480
<v Speaker 2>Miss X's remains, then they might have the necessary DNA

769
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:04.519
<v Speaker 2>to give her name back as well.

770
00:39:06.159 --> 00:39:09.800
<v Speaker 1>So let's get back to discussing Connie Sadly, Like we

771
00:39:09.880 --> 00:39:12.239
<v Speaker 1>said before, I think the truth about what happened to

772
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.559
<v Speaker 1>her is very simple. She crossed paths with a motorist

773
00:39:15.639 --> 00:39:17.960
<v Speaker 1>on Route forty four who picked her up before she

774
00:39:18.039 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 1>made it to Lakeville and ultimately harmed her after they

775
00:39:21.239 --> 00:39:24.840
<v Speaker 1>drove away from the scene. I've seen some people push

776
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:27.599
<v Speaker 1>forward the theory that Connie could have accidentally been hit

777
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:30.880
<v Speaker 1>by a car and whoever was responsible took her body

778
00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:33.599
<v Speaker 1>away from the scene and disposed of it before they

779
00:39:33.599 --> 00:39:36.679
<v Speaker 1>were discovered. But I have my doubts this would have

780
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:40.880
<v Speaker 1>occurred without leaving any evidence behind or anyone seeing anything.

781
00:39:41.519 --> 00:39:44.440
<v Speaker 1>So I think Connie voluntarily climbed into a vehicle with

782
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:48.000
<v Speaker 1>someone who pulled over to give her a ride. In

783
00:39:48.079 --> 00:39:51.400
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten, author Michael C. Dooling published a book titled

784
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.079
<v Speaker 1>Clueless in New England, which not only covered Connie's case,

785
00:39:55.519 --> 00:39:58.519
<v Speaker 1>but the nineteen forty six disappearance of eighteen year old

786
00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:02.480
<v Speaker 1>Paula Jeane Weldon from Bennington, Vermont, and the nineteen thirty

787
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:05.519
<v Speaker 1>six disappearance and death of twenty two year old Catherine

788
00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.639
<v Speaker 1>Hall from Lebanon Springs, New York. Since all three victims

789
00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:13.920
<v Speaker 1>disappeared while hitchhiking, Julie explores the possibility that they were

790
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:17.119
<v Speaker 1>all murdered by the same killer, though I personally have

791
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:21.920
<v Speaker 1>my doubts considering the geographical and time differences, but I

792
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:24.920
<v Speaker 1>would not be surprised at all if Connie was specifically

793
00:40:24.960 --> 00:40:28.159
<v Speaker 1>targeted by a predator who was under the mistaken impression

794
00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:31.760
<v Speaker 1>that she was a teenager. That she was a teenager.

795
00:40:32.679 --> 00:40:36.159
<v Speaker 1>Given how extensively the area surrounding Camp's Loan was searched

796
00:40:36.199 --> 00:40:38.760
<v Speaker 1>at the time, it would not surprise me at all

797
00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:42.079
<v Speaker 1>if Connie's body was disposed of at a location which

798
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:46.039
<v Speaker 1>was a great distance away. Sadly, there is no hard

799
00:40:46.119 --> 00:40:50.320
<v Speaker 1>evidence pointing towards a specific suspect, so the person responsible

800
00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:53.119
<v Speaker 1>could have been passing through the area and was long

801
00:40:53.159 --> 00:40:55.320
<v Speaker 1>gone by the time the search for Connie began.

802
00:40:56.840 --> 00:40:59.480
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, so one of two things could happen. This is

803
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:01.639
<v Speaker 4>someone who's local and is familiar with the fact that

804
00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:04.599
<v Speaker 4>there's a summer camp there, and so they kind of

805
00:41:04.679 --> 00:41:07.239
<v Speaker 4>troll that area waiting to see do any of the

806
00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 4>kids sneak off the property? Are there any kids that

807
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:13.199
<v Speaker 4>you know leave and they're walking. It's like someone who

808
00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:15.599
<v Speaker 4>would be close to a school and watching for the

809
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:18.719
<v Speaker 4>kiddo who walks home by themselves, right, you know children

810
00:41:18.800 --> 00:41:22.400
<v Speaker 4>are there, and you know that sometimes children leave the

811
00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:24.920
<v Speaker 4>property because you drive by all the time, or you're

812
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.719
<v Speaker 4>scoping out that area waiting to see if there's a

813
00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:31.079
<v Speaker 4>vulnerable child that leaves, and so it's very possible that's

814
00:41:31.079 --> 00:41:33.880
<v Speaker 4>someone who's very familiar with the area. But again, it's

815
00:41:33.920 --> 00:41:36.679
<v Speaker 4>all so very possible that it's a passerby on that

816
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:40.599
<v Speaker 4>busy route forty four who's they're driving. They see this kiddo,

817
00:41:40.719 --> 00:41:43.400
<v Speaker 4>they thinks about thirteen, fourteen years old, she's all alone.

818
00:41:43.519 --> 00:41:47.039
<v Speaker 4>In fact, if she looks distressed, even more vulnerable, and

819
00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:51.599
<v Speaker 4>they pull over and they either physically apprehend her or

820
00:41:51.639 --> 00:41:53.960
<v Speaker 4>they convince her that they'll help her get where she's going.

821
00:41:54.719 --> 00:41:57.480
<v Speaker 4>Remember there's cases where a husband and wife are doing

822
00:41:57.480 --> 00:42:00.159
<v Speaker 4>a crime together and they convince a child to get

823
00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:03.360
<v Speaker 4>in because they're safe. There's times when you have, you know,

824
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:05.760
<v Speaker 4>a man who's not too much older and he's pulling over.

825
00:42:06.079 --> 00:42:08.960
<v Speaker 4>There's someone who reminds her of her grandfather who pulls over.

826
00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:13.000
<v Speaker 4>So as a ten year old, there's many, many circumstances

827
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:17.239
<v Speaker 4>that you could feel pretty safe, especially back in the fifties. Again,

828
00:42:17.280 --> 00:42:19.760
<v Speaker 4>when we don't have social media telling you every ten

829
00:42:19.800 --> 00:42:23.400
<v Speaker 4>minutes that another baby's been hurt, that you're safe, and

830
00:42:23.440 --> 00:42:25.880
<v Speaker 4>that hey, I don't know where I'm going. I'm overwhelmed

831
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:27.719
<v Speaker 4>someone pulled over and said they would help me. I've

832
00:42:27.719 --> 00:42:29.679
<v Speaker 4>asked so many people and I still don't know where

833
00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 4>I'm going, I'm going to get in this car, they

834
00:42:31.559 --> 00:42:34.920
<v Speaker 4>seem safe, and or she's walking and she gets physically

835
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:37.039
<v Speaker 4>apprehended and simply can't defend herself.

836
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:38.159
<v Speaker 3>It's so sad.

837
00:42:38.519 --> 00:42:41.639
<v Speaker 4>There's so many options that this case becomes one of

838
00:42:41.639 --> 00:42:44.079
<v Speaker 4>those that's so open ended. It almost feels helpless in

839
00:42:44.360 --> 00:42:46.920
<v Speaker 4>the time that's passed in the way that it could

840
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.199
<v Speaker 4>be someone close, it could be someone far away. It

841
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.320
<v Speaker 4>could be someone's first crime, it could be their ninth.

842
00:42:51.599 --> 00:42:53.599
<v Speaker 4>You know, we just don't know. And so this is

843
00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:56.719
<v Speaker 4>one of those cases where, my goodness, I wish that

844
00:42:57.079 --> 00:42:59.400
<v Speaker 4>not as much time had passed so that we were

845
00:42:59.440 --> 00:43:02.159
<v Speaker 4>maybe a to dig deeper and get some more information.

846
00:43:04.320 --> 00:43:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Of course, the big mystery in this case will always

847
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.320
<v Speaker 2>be why Connie walked away from the camp to begin with,

848
00:43:09.519 --> 00:43:11.800
<v Speaker 2>But it was probably just a combination of her being

849
00:43:11.840 --> 00:43:14.639
<v Speaker 2>bullied or feeling homesick, and it was just a tragic

850
00:43:14.679 --> 00:43:17.199
<v Speaker 2>coincidence that this ultimately led to her being in the

851
00:43:17.239 --> 00:43:19.760
<v Speaker 2>wrong place at the wrong time, with the wrong person.

852
00:43:20.519 --> 00:43:22.599
<v Speaker 2>But the good news is that even though over seventy

853
00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.199
<v Speaker 2>years have passed, law enforcement has not given up on

854
00:43:25.280 --> 00:43:27.880
<v Speaker 2>trying to solve this case, as it still gets covered

855
00:43:27.880 --> 00:43:30.760
<v Speaker 2>in the local media from time to time. So if

856
00:43:30.800 --> 00:43:33.079
<v Speaker 2>by chance, you happen to have any information on the

857
00:43:33.079 --> 00:43:36.159
<v Speaker 2>disappearance of Connie Smith, where you happen to know anything

858
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:39.119
<v Speaker 2>about the identity of little Miss X, or the unsolved

859
00:43:39.119 --> 00:43:42.880
<v Speaker 2>disappearances of Donnis, Pinky Redman and Michael Griffin for that matter,

860
00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:47.880
<v Speaker 2>please contact the appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts

861
00:43:47.880 --> 00:43:48.440
<v Speaker 2>in this case.

862
00:43:49.719 --> 00:43:51.760
<v Speaker 4>I think the thing that hits hard about this case

863
00:43:51.840 --> 00:43:53.840
<v Speaker 4>is it could be any of our children. This is

864
00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:56.599
<v Speaker 4>a little girl who's going away to summer camp, and

865
00:43:56.639 --> 00:44:00.000
<v Speaker 4>again it's the first summer that her routine is kind of,

866
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:03.079
<v Speaker 4>you know, not what it's been her whole life. This

867
00:44:03.239 --> 00:44:05.800
<v Speaker 4>is his first summer. She's exploring this idea of being

868
00:44:05.840 --> 00:44:08.440
<v Speaker 4>away at summer camp. And in fact, as a parent,

869
00:44:08.519 --> 00:44:11.320
<v Speaker 4>you go to visit and you hear how exciting it is,

870
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.840
<v Speaker 4>how wonderful it is, and then she even wants to

871
00:44:13.840 --> 00:44:16.760
<v Speaker 4>stay longer, Like I made the right decision sending my

872
00:44:16.840 --> 00:44:21.559
<v Speaker 4>baby there. She's thriving, she's so happy, she's learning new things.

873
00:44:21.559 --> 00:44:23.880
<v Speaker 4>This is good for her social and emotional growth. I'm

874
00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:26.840
<v Speaker 4>so happy, and then the next thing, I know, my

875
00:44:26.920 --> 00:44:31.039
<v Speaker 4>child's missing, and multiple people saw her. No one can

876
00:44:31.079 --> 00:44:33.400
<v Speaker 4>tell me where she is, no one can tell me

877
00:44:33.480 --> 00:44:37.920
<v Speaker 4>what happened. I can't imagine being the family surrounding this

878
00:44:38.039 --> 00:44:41.679
<v Speaker 4>baby and going missing. She walked away from a camp

879
00:44:41.719 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 4>at ten, thinking, Hey, I can get somewhere, I can

880
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.639
<v Speaker 4>get help for whatever I'm trying to do. She even

881
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:50.239
<v Speaker 4>had the guts to go and knock on someone's door

882
00:44:50.280 --> 00:44:52.599
<v Speaker 4>and ask for help, show me how to get to

883
00:44:52.639 --> 00:44:54.639
<v Speaker 4>this place. So she had a little plan in her

884
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:57.440
<v Speaker 4>ten year old mind, and no matter what she was

885
00:44:57.519 --> 00:45:00.840
<v Speaker 4>running from, no matter who she needed, she had a plan.

886
00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:04.519
<v Speaker 4>And somehow she was intercepted at that time. But my

887
00:45:04.679 --> 00:45:07.519
<v Speaker 4>heart is broken for the family who said, we're going

888
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:09.360
<v Speaker 4>to give our baby a memory, We're going to give

889
00:45:09.360 --> 00:45:12.159
<v Speaker 4>her an opportunity. We're going to really push her outside

890
00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:13.920
<v Speaker 4>of her comfort zone and let her grow as a

891
00:45:14.000 --> 00:45:16.599
<v Speaker 4>human being. I can't tell you how many times I

892
00:45:16.679 --> 00:45:18.599
<v Speaker 4>do that and send my child off into the world,

893
00:45:18.679 --> 00:45:21.639
<v Speaker 4>praying that she's safe and sound and so having so

894
00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:25.039
<v Speaker 4>much fun. And I can't imagine getting a phone call

895
00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:28.199
<v Speaker 4>or arriving and having someone say, we have no idea

896
00:45:28.239 --> 00:45:31.119
<v Speaker 4>where she is. And that's exactly what happened here. Connie's

897
00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:34.960
<v Speaker 4>never been found. So the really difficult thing here is

898
00:45:34.960 --> 00:45:40.119
<v Speaker 4>that if she's not found right, yeah, deceased or alive,

899
00:45:40.599 --> 00:45:43.440
<v Speaker 4>then what had been happening to her? How long was

900
00:45:43.440 --> 00:45:48.199
<v Speaker 4>she kept alive? It creates such a tremendous grief journey

901
00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:50.480
<v Speaker 4>that that family had to go on, and friends of

902
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:51.760
<v Speaker 4>Connie's family had to go on.

903
00:45:52.159 --> 00:45:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Is she still alive? Is she being hurt? Is she scared?

904
00:45:54.599 --> 00:45:56.519
<v Speaker 4>Is she calling for me? And I can't hear her?

905
00:45:57.039 --> 00:46:00.880
<v Speaker 4>And by this point I would think that Connie is deceased,

906
00:46:00.920 --> 00:46:02.920
<v Speaker 4>even of old age, even if she had been raised

907
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:06.679
<v Speaker 4>by somebody else. But it's pitiful to think that her

908
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 4>family lived their lives wondering could she still be alive?

909
00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:13.960
<v Speaker 4>What happened to her? And it's quote our fault because

910
00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:16.239
<v Speaker 4>we sent our baby to this camp and trusted them

911
00:46:16.280 --> 00:46:19.000
<v Speaker 4>to take care of her. It's no one's fault. They

912
00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:22.599
<v Speaker 4>did what every parent does on a daily basis. They thought,

913
00:46:22.920 --> 00:46:25.280
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to do something really exciting or cool or

914
00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:27.639
<v Speaker 4>right for my child, and it just ended in an

915
00:46:27.719 --> 00:46:28.880
<v Speaker 4>absolute tragedy.

916
00:46:28.920 --> 00:46:30.360
<v Speaker 3>It's so so sad.

917
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:33.840
<v Speaker 1>It's literally one of those worst case scenarios that you

918
00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:38.360
<v Speaker 1>hope never happens, but unfortunately, in this situation. It happened

919
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:41.159
<v Speaker 1>to Connie, and so her family is to deal with

920
00:46:41.239 --> 00:46:44.599
<v Speaker 1>this trauma that just cycles around. They maybe get a tip,

921
00:46:44.639 --> 00:46:48.880
<v Speaker 1>they get more information it's potentially connected to little Miss X,

922
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:52.039
<v Speaker 1>and then in the end they're left disappointed because they

923
00:46:52.079 --> 00:46:55.840
<v Speaker 1>really get no new information. I really don't believe that

924
00:46:55.960 --> 00:46:58.199
<v Speaker 1>she is little Miss X. I do think that it's

925
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:02.440
<v Speaker 1>interesting that the caller had that in about both cases,

926
00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:05.440
<v Speaker 1>but I do tend to think that they are not

927
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:09.079
<v Speaker 1>one and the same, and that the forensic identologist or

928
00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:14.719
<v Speaker 1>whomever examined her skull initially was correct. But it's so

929
00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:17.960
<v Speaker 1>frustrating because you think, oh, my gosh, my child is

930
00:47:18.000 --> 00:47:20.280
<v Speaker 1>going to the summer camp, What a wonderful experience they're

931
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:23.639
<v Speaker 1>going to have, And then when all these other parents

932
00:47:23.679 --> 00:47:26.679
<v Speaker 1>get to go pick up their children, you're searching for

933
00:47:26.719 --> 00:47:29.559
<v Speaker 1>your child who's missing, and you feel like they should

934
00:47:29.559 --> 00:47:33.119
<v Speaker 1>have been protected by the camp, by the counselors, that

935
00:47:33.320 --> 00:47:36.920
<v Speaker 1>somebody should have done more. But thinking about the time period,

936
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:39.639
<v Speaker 1>nobody thought that she would walk away from this camp

937
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:44.000
<v Speaker 1>and that some opportunistic offender would end up abducting her

938
00:47:44.119 --> 00:47:47.119
<v Speaker 1>and like the ending her life. It's just such a

939
00:47:47.159 --> 00:47:47.840
<v Speaker 1>sad case.

940
00:47:48.760 --> 00:47:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, We talked in our last episode about Connie's family,

941
00:47:51.400 --> 00:47:53.840
<v Speaker 2>how her mother died at a very young age, which

942
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:56.119
<v Speaker 2>they think was because of a broken heart, and her

943
00:47:56.159 --> 00:47:58.480
<v Speaker 2>father lived to a very old age up to the

944
00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:01.519
<v Speaker 2>age of ninety seven before he passed away, and her

945
00:48:01.559 --> 00:48:04.519
<v Speaker 2>brother went on to have a successful political career, but

946
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.480
<v Speaker 2>just two years ago he and his wife were killed

947
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.360
<v Speaker 2>in a car accident when he was eighty four years old.

948
00:48:10.440 --> 00:48:12.840
<v Speaker 2>So there's just been so much tragedy in the family,

949
00:48:12.960 --> 00:48:15.360
<v Speaker 2>and it is a shame that they never found out

950
00:48:15.800 --> 00:48:18.280
<v Speaker 2>what happened to Connie, because I know that her father

951
00:48:18.360 --> 00:48:21.159
<v Speaker 2>and her brother just never stopped publicizing it for the

952
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:24.000
<v Speaker 2>rest of their lives. I think that if this case

953
00:48:24.039 --> 00:48:26.320
<v Speaker 2>had happened today, we might get more insight in what

954
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:29.960
<v Speaker 2>happened to her, because even though what happened to her

955
00:48:29.960 --> 00:48:32.559
<v Speaker 2>at camp may not have played any role in her disappearance,

956
00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:35.280
<v Speaker 2>I happened to think that in today's days of social

957
00:48:35.360 --> 00:48:38.840
<v Speaker 2>media and people talking, that if she was being bullied,

958
00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:42.639
<v Speaker 2>or if she had been groomed or harassed by anyone

959
00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:45.079
<v Speaker 2>at the camp, then it would have eventually come out.

960
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:47.199
<v Speaker 2>There would have been a lot of gossip, a rumors

961
00:48:47.239 --> 00:48:49.760
<v Speaker 2>at the very least, and we might have gotten more

962
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.800
<v Speaker 2>insight into why Connie left the campground in the first place,

963
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:55.760
<v Speaker 2>which is still a mystery within a mystery that it's

964
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:59.920
<v Speaker 2>very possible she was being sexually harassed or targeted by someone,

965
00:49:00.119 --> 00:49:02.840
<v Speaker 2>but she may have decided to leave and then cross

966
00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 2>paths with an entirely different predator who was the one

967
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.199
<v Speaker 2>who killed her. But it is frustrating because in missing

968
00:49:09.239 --> 00:49:11.480
<v Speaker 2>persons cases, you're often going to find a lot of

969
00:49:11.519 --> 00:49:15.159
<v Speaker 2>mistaken eyewitness sightings, but they're pretty credible. In this case,

970
00:49:15.159 --> 00:49:17.760
<v Speaker 2>we have a number of witnesses who corroborate each other

971
00:49:18.119 --> 00:49:21.360
<v Speaker 2>and provide a timeline of Connie's path when she walked

972
00:49:21.360 --> 00:49:24.400
<v Speaker 2>away from the campground that morning, but before she reached

973
00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:27.159
<v Speaker 2>the town of Lakeville, she just vanished without a trace.

974
00:49:27.239 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 2>So it seems that it's just bad luck that she

975
00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:32.000
<v Speaker 2>may have been picked up in a vehicle by the

976
00:49:32.039 --> 00:49:35.280
<v Speaker 2>wrong person and no one saw or heard anything, and

977
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:37.920
<v Speaker 2>then they managed to get away with it. And I

978
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:40.760
<v Speaker 2>do agree that Connie is unlikely to be little Miss X,

979
00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.280
<v Speaker 2>but I do hope that the efforts are still going

980
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:46.679
<v Speaker 2>underway to try to recover Little Miss X's remains, because

981
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:49.719
<v Speaker 2>she is someone's child who deserves to be identified and

982
00:49:49.760 --> 00:49:52.079
<v Speaker 2>get her name back. So I am glad that there's

983
00:49:52.599 --> 00:49:55.360
<v Speaker 2>these cases are in conjunction to each other, because if

984
00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:58.280
<v Speaker 2>people never mentioned Connie's case, then little miss X may

985
00:49:58.280 --> 00:50:01.639
<v Speaker 2>have been long forgotten about long long time ago. But

986
00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:03.880
<v Speaker 2>who knows. Yeah, maybe one of these days they will

987
00:50:03.880 --> 00:50:07.480
<v Speaker 2>find Connie's remains and we'll finally get some resolution on

988
00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:08.679
<v Speaker 2>what actually happened to her.

989
00:50:10.239 --> 00:50:11.719
<v Speaker 1>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

990
00:50:11.719 --> 00:50:13.199
<v Speaker 1>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

991
00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

992
00:50:16.360 --> 00:50:20.119
<v Speaker 2>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

993
00:50:20.199 --> 00:50:23.559
<v Speaker 2>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

994
00:50:23.599 --> 00:50:26.440
<v Speaker 2>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

995
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:29.039
<v Speaker 2>with us on Patreon. If you join our five dollars

996
00:50:29.079 --> 00:50:33.159
<v Speaker 2>tier tier two, we also offer monthly bonus episodes in

997
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.360
<v Speaker 2>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

998
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon,

999
00:50:40.039 --> 00:50:42.519
<v Speaker 2>and if you join our highest tier tier three, the

1000
00:50:42.559 --> 00:50:45.480
<v Speaker 2>ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer is

1001
00:50:45.559 --> 00:50:49.840
<v Speaker 2>a audio commentary track over classic episodes of unsolved mysteries,

1002
00:50:50.079 --> 00:50:53.079
<v Speaker 2>where you can download an audio file and then boot

1003
00:50:53.159 --> 00:50:56.360
<v Speaker 2>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

1004
00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:59.719
<v Speaker 2>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

1005
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the back, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

1006
00:51:02.920 --> 00:51:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

1007
00:51:06.400 --> 00:51:09.239
<v Speaker 2>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

1008
00:51:09.280 --> 00:51:12.039
<v Speaker 2>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

1009
00:51:12.079 --> 00:51:14.800
<v Speaker 2>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

1010
00:51:14.800 --> 00:51:17.840
<v Speaker 2>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

1011
00:51:17.920 --> 00:51:18.639
<v Speaker 2>Tier three.

1012
00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:20.360
<v Speaker 5>So I want to let you know a little bit

1013
00:51:20.400 --> 00:51:23.320
<v Speaker 5>about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

1014
00:51:23.360 --> 00:51:26.280
<v Speaker 5>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

1015
00:51:26.280 --> 00:51:29.280
<v Speaker 5>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

1016
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:31.440
<v Speaker 5>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

1017
00:51:31.480 --> 00:51:34.360
<v Speaker 5>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those.

1018
00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:37.000
<v Speaker 1>So we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link

1019
00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:38.119
<v Speaker 1>them in the show notes.

1020
00:51:38.599 --> 00:51:40.519
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

1021
00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:43.000
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

1022
00:51:43.039 --> 00:51:46.039
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

1023
00:51:46.159 --> 00:51:49.239
<v Speaker 2>You can email us at The Pathwentchili at gmail dot com.

1024
00:51:49.519 --> 00:51:52.159
<v Speaker 2>You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin So

1025
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:54.880
<v Speaker 2>until next time, be sure to bundle up, because cold

1026
00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:57.360
<v Speaker 2>trails and chili pass call for warm clothing.

1027
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:00.280
<v Speaker 1>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Call, Doller's

1028
00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:00.719
<v Speaker 1>comedy