Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
Speaker 1: not intended for all audiences.
Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. Madison Small, I mean i'd take off.
Speaker 2: I mean, if I would have killed her, I would
Speaker 2: have been gone. You guys have never found me, right,
Speaker 2: I would never even went back to my apartment.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's I'm glad you go right there.
Speaker 1: This is season thirteen, episode three hundred and fifty six
Speaker 1: of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the
Speaker 1: worst monsters are real. It's an overcast day in March
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. The winter snow is finally giving way as
Speaker 1: the weather warms. Kevin and Jean Zimmerman sit in their
Speaker 1: living room with lights, a camera, and a local reporter
Speaker 1: staring back at them.
Speaker 4: Does time sort of stop for you on that day
Speaker 4: on April second? Absolutely in two thousand and eight, Like,
Speaker 4: do you feel like you can you know that it
Speaker 4: is ten years later?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 5: I don't.
Speaker 6: Oh no, it's quite unbelievable.
Speaker 7: That is ten years already.
Speaker 6: It's, you know, completely unbelievable.
Speaker 1: They've done countless interviews over the years, and they're willing
Speaker 1: to do thousands more, anything to keep their daughter's case alive.
Speaker 8: How often do you think about that day?
Speaker 7: Every day, every single day.
Speaker 6: We thought it was going to be solved right away.
Speaker 6: We didn't even consider that this that we'd be here
Speaker 6: ten years later.
Speaker 1: Three days after this interview would mark ten years since
Speaker 1: their daughter, Brittany was killed. In that decade, the case
Speaker 1: had passed through three police chiefs and four lead detectives,
Speaker 1: years of work, with little to show for it. Only
Speaker 1: once did they think they were close.
Speaker 8: Why do you think there hasn't been unarrest or even
Speaker 8: seemingly like a person of interest or a major break
Speaker 8: in the case.
Speaker 9: I mean that we thought there was.
Speaker 6: You know, it was two and a half years ago.
Speaker 6: Chief Cobalt came to our door on my husband's birthday
Speaker 6: and said, we believe we have the person responsible for
Speaker 6: killing your daughter the summer ninth.
Speaker 1: That moment came in twenty sixteen, but two years later
Speaker 1: there was still no arrest. All the Zimmerman's could do
Speaker 1: was hold on to hope.
Speaker 7: That's all we have is hope.
Speaker 10: We can hope.
Speaker 11: Yeah, but.
Speaker 7: Realistically, I'm not really sure that they're ever going to
Speaker 7: solve this, at least not the way it's being handled
Speaker 7: right now. I just don't believe it.
Speaker 1: When parents lose a child, they're powerless to do anything
Speaker 1: but wait. Justice moves on its own timeline, and in
Speaker 1: the Zimmerman's case, that timeline stretched endlessly. These interviews, these
Speaker 1: small acts of advocacy, were all they had control over.
Speaker 1: If speaking publicly could help or speed up catching Brittany's killer,
Speaker 1: they'd do it every day for the rest of their
Speaker 1: lives to make that happen.
Speaker 8: What would you really tell people about why they should
Speaker 8: rack their brains.
Speaker 7: Because if it was your child, you'd want everybody in
Speaker 7: the world to rack their brains for you.
Speaker 6: Put yourself in our shoes just for a second.
Speaker 7: Just for a second, put yourself in our shoes.
Speaker 12: And what.
Speaker 7: This little girl meant everything to us? And you know
Speaker 7: she was never there to hurt anybody. She was always
Speaker 7: there to help people.
Speaker 1: Photos of Brittany still aligned every wall of their home,
Speaker 1: a family scarred by tragedy, frozen in time, clinging to
Speaker 1: whatever hope remained, and wondering whether the case would ever
Speaker 1: be solved. Meanwhile, the police department continued to work on
Speaker 1: their decade old investigation.
Speaker 13: This is not what I would consider been relegated to
Speaker 13: a case. This still has active leads that are worthy.
Speaker 1: The Zimmermans knew little about the leads detectives were chasing.
Speaker 1: They only knew that two years earlier, the police chief
Speaker 1: had told him they had the guy, but there had
Speaker 1: been no arrests. They were completely in the dark.
Speaker 13: If I had the probable cause, based on the totality
Speaker 13: of the evidence I had, don't you think I would
Speaker 13: have made an arrest.
Speaker 1: It turned out that the chief had spoken too soon.
Speaker 1: It was one of many missteps in an investigation that
Speaker 1: had been plagued by setbacks from the start. One of
Speaker 1: the biggest was losing the longtime lead investigator. The emotional
Speaker 1: toll of the case eventually became too heavy to bear.
Speaker 14: He was convulsing at one point, and then I was convulsed,
Speaker 14: and I realized, we can't continue to sign cases this way.
Speaker 1: The chiefs wore that moving forward, a team of investigators
Speaker 1: would carry the case. He was confident they would solve
Speaker 1: it eventually.
Speaker 14: The old school cop and me still hopes now that
Speaker 14: slips will sink ships.
Speaker 13: Someone's going to say something to somebody about this case in.
Speaker 12: A bar or overheard.
Speaker 1: But even if they did, even if the killer was
Speaker 1: finally behind bars, the Zimmerman's knew it would bring them
Speaker 1: little comfort. What they wanted most was the one thing
Speaker 1: that no investigation could return.
Speaker 7: She would be a doctor right now that she wanted
Speaker 7: to be, and we would be proud of her, and
Speaker 7: we could go visit her on her animal farm and
Speaker 7: everything she wanted because she loved animals. That's what we wish,
Speaker 7: you know, that she could live her life the way
Speaker 7: she wanted to.
Speaker 1: They had thought the case would be solved quickly by
Speaker 1: twenty eighteen. They simply hoped it would be solved at all.
Speaker 1: Their nightmare started on April second, two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: when their daughter was attacked inside her apartment in the
Speaker 1: middle of the day. The mistake started almost immediately. And
Speaker 1: to understand how this case remained open for a decade,
Speaker 1: you have to go back to the start.
Speaker 6: Monday will mark ten years as a brutal murder that
Speaker 6: rocked downtown Madison.
Speaker 5: It's been five years since Britty Zimmerman was killed here
Speaker 5: on a Jonas Street.
Speaker 1: Friday will mark the two year anniversary of the Madison
Speaker 1: murder of Brittany Zimmerman. It's April second, two thousand and eight.
Speaker 1: Jordan Gonnering hops on his moped and heads towards the
Speaker 1: University of Wisconsin Madison campus. This Beyonce. Brittany is already
Speaker 1: in class. She had a big test that morning. He
Speaker 1: rides a short distance to campus from their apartment and
Speaker 1: joining the sun. It wouldn't feel so cold if it
Speaker 1: weren't for the wind, he thinks to himself. He gets
Speaker 1: back to campus at around eleven thirty. He goes out
Speaker 1: on one of the balconies of the Van Hies Building
Speaker 1: and scans the quad for Brittany. She turns her phone
Speaker 1: off in class, but he knows she'll be coming out
Speaker 1: of the Bacteriology building. Then he spots her. She stands
Speaker 1: out with her golden hair and the collar of her
Speaker 1: lime green pea coat pulled up around her neck. He
Speaker 1: calls her name. She looks around for a moment before
Speaker 1: looking up to the balcony. A smile spreads across her
Speaker 1: face when she sees Jordan. He points to his phone
Speaker 1: and she remembers her phone is off. She turns it
Speaker 1: on and it rings instantly. Jordan asks her how her
Speaker 1: parasitology test went. She sighs, but says it went fine.
Speaker 1: They have a quick conversation just touching base before their
Speaker 1: dinner plans that night. Finish their phone call, and Jordan
Speaker 1: starts heading to his Russian literature class, which starts at
Speaker 1: twelve oh five. After class ends at twelve fifty five,
Speaker 1: Jordan walks back to his moped and hops on. He
Speaker 1: weaves through the campus and onto his street. He gets home,
Speaker 1: parks his bike on the side of the house, and
Speaker 1: walks to the front door like he always does. Then
Speaker 1: he stops. The lock on the outside security door is busted.
Speaker 1: It looks like somebody kicked it in. He can't remember
Speaker 1: if it was always like this. He stares at it
Speaker 1: for a moment, thinking, but dismisses it and starts to
Speaker 1: go inside. He reaches to open the closed door and
Speaker 1: notices it's unlocked. He thinks that's weird, but he also
Speaker 1: knows their landlord was supposed to show the apartment that day,
Speaker 1: so he assumes that's why. He walks in saide and
Speaker 1: takes off his backpack, his jacket, and his shoes. Usually
Speaker 1: their three cats would greet him at the door, but
Speaker 1: today they were nowhere to be found. Jordan takes a
Speaker 1: few steps towards the back of the small apartment and
Speaker 1: freezes on the floor in the bedroom. Is Brittany. Just
Speaker 1: for a second he thinks she's pranking him, But as
Speaker 1: soon as he inches close, he sees blood. Jordan would
Speaker 1: call nine one one at one eight pm nine one.
Speaker 15: One with the adders of the emergency. Nine one with
Speaker 15: the address of the emergency. Hello, nine one one with
Speaker 15: the EDIR for the emergency.
Speaker 1: His phone barely holds a connection. He manages to give
Speaker 1: the address on West Doty Street before the call cuts out.
Speaker 9: Class it's what you're cutting out? Can hear me?
Speaker 15: Hello?
Speaker 11: Hello?
Speaker 15: Okay, your phone's cut now? Did you say upper or
Speaker 15: lower flags?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: The dispatcher tries again. Their voices break in and out,
Speaker 1: tangled and static?
Speaker 12: Okay, ambulance and needed.
Speaker 9: Okay. What is your name?
Speaker 12: Jordan Garing?
Speaker 15: Okay, come exactly what happened?
Speaker 16: I just came home.
Speaker 12: The door was bumped in and my girlfriend's been shot.
Speaker 9: Okay, stand the phone with me. Okay, are you with
Speaker 9: her right now? Yes?
Speaker 12: I am?
Speaker 9: How old is she she is?
Speaker 12: Thanks?
Speaker 9: Miss twenty one twenty one? Is she conscious? No, she's not.
Speaker 9: Is she breathing?
Speaker 17: No, she's not.
Speaker 1: Up to this point in his life, the most serious
Speaker 1: thing Jordan has faced was final exams. Now he's kneeling
Speaker 1: beside the woman he planned to marry, trying to save
Speaker 1: her life. The dispatcher checks to make sure the attacker
Speaker 1: is no longer there. Oh, while relaying information to officers
Speaker 1: already in round.
Speaker 5: The color has no idea.
Speaker 9: He just walked in and found his girlfriend like this.
Speaker 5: Color has no idea who would have done it?
Speaker 9: Is there any serious bleeding? Okay? There is serious bleeding? Yes, okay.
Speaker 15: I'm sending an ambulance to help you. I want you
Speaker 15: to stand the line that needs to incite what to
Speaker 15: do next.
Speaker 9: Okay, Okay, did you say she is or she is
Speaker 9: not breathing?
Speaker 12: She's not breathing.
Speaker 9: She's not breathing. Okay, stand the pool. I can tell
Speaker 9: you how to help her. Okay, you're right by her now,
Speaker 9: all right. I want you to lay her flat on
Speaker 9: her back on the ground. Yep.
Speaker 15: Remove any collows.
Speaker 9: Okay, okay.
Speaker 15: I need you to kneel next to her and her
Speaker 15: mom look in her mouth for any food or vomits.
Speaker 9: Is there anything?
Speaker 12: Is there anything in your blood?
Speaker 9: Just blood?
Speaker 1: Brittany isn't breathing. Her airway is filled with blood, and
Speaker 1: she has no pulse. The dispatcher talks Jordan through CPR,
Speaker 1: but she knows it might already be too late, and
Speaker 1: when Jordan rolls Brittany on her back, he notices something
Speaker 1: he cannot make sense of.
Speaker 9: Did you think she did this herself?
Speaker 12: No, she couldn't go.
Speaker 15: She couldn't have done it herself. And there's no weapon.
Speaker 12: Nearby, No no shot woo here.
Speaker 9: You're inside with her, you're inside with her, Yes, I am.
Speaker 9: It might be a stam mood.
Speaker 12: Yes, I'm not sure. There's piercing, there's swall piercing.
Speaker 1: The dispatcher stays with him, guiding him, reassuring him, while
Speaker 1: also coordinating the incoming police units. She switches between comforting
Speaker 1: Jordan and delivering updates to officers racing towards the scene.
Speaker 5: The address is five to one seven West Doughty five
Speaker 5: one seven West Doty Streets. It's apartment number one.
Speaker 9: The lower flat.
Speaker 5: The female is he and B and he's now saying
Speaker 5: that it could he has a stabbing wound rather than
Speaker 5: a gunsight.
Speaker 1: Then she has to jump right back into the fray
Speaker 1: with Jordan.
Speaker 9: Okay, no idea? Who might have done this?
Speaker 12: Jow right, I have no idea I have no idea.
Speaker 15: Okay, with no idea.
Speaker 9: Can you feel or hear any breathing?
Speaker 16: H No, I can't.
Speaker 12: I chucked for a pulse and I can't see anything.
Speaker 15: Okay, okay, just so you know, there's there's an ambulance
Speaker 15: on the way and the officers are on the way
Speaker 15: as well.
Speaker 9: Okay.
Speaker 1: She tells him help is coming, but in moments like this,
Speaker 1: seconds stretch into hours. Finally, officers arrive and usher Jordan
Speaker 1: inside thirty.
Speaker 12: Fourteen hours and are inside.
Speaker 15: The building isn't clear.
Speaker 1: And she sends The police reach the apartment at one
Speaker 1: ten pm, less than two minutes after dispatch. They check
Speaker 1: on Jordan, then clear the house room by room upstairs
Speaker 1: and danced, making sure the attacker is still inside. Only
Speaker 1: then do they move toward Brittany. It was too late
Speaker 1: to help her. The officers informed dispatch that the victim
Speaker 1: was deceased and the call became a homicide investigation. When
Speaker 1: detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused. There was
Speaker 1: forced entry, but nothing was stolen. Brittany most likely was
Speaker 1: working on her computer filing out federal grant forms when
Speaker 1: someone interrupted her. Her desk was messy with tax documents
Speaker 1: from the doorway of their bedroom. Detectives saw blood on
Speaker 1: the bed and the floor. Further checking revealed her cell phone.
Speaker 1: The battery was missing and it looked like someone had
Speaker 1: deliberately damaged it. They found it hidden under other garbage
Speaker 1: in the trash can. Who would want a twenty one
Speaker 1: year old microbiology student dead?
Speaker 15: And why?
Speaker 1: It was a broad daylight murder with no clear motive,
Speaker 1: and it would take twelve years for Madison police to
Speaker 1: uncover the truth. The midday murder of their only daughter
Speaker 1: had a devastating effect on the Zimmermans. They wouldn't see
Speaker 1: her graduate or get married. She would never have a career,
Speaker 1: a family, or a life. The date of her death
Speaker 1: would replace her birthday for her parents, and they would
Speaker 1: spend the next twelve telve years fighting for justice for Brittany.
Speaker 1: Her fiance Jordan, found her lifeless body on their bedroom
Speaker 1: floor and called nine one one. The police made a
Speaker 1: mad dash to the crime scene. When it was determined
Speaker 1: that Brittany was deceased, the investigation started. The entire street
Speaker 1: from intersection to intersection was cordoned off. Officers secured the scene.
Speaker 1: They started to make contact with the neighbors and left
Speaker 1: dash cams running to capture anyone walking in the area.
Speaker 1: Jordan had just seen her at eleven thirty. What could
Speaker 1: have happened in the last hour and a half. They
Speaker 1: hoped whoever killed her was still in the area, so
Speaker 1: they started canvassing quickly. Dispatch uncovered some investigation that might
Speaker 1: have been related.
Speaker 9: Police inspire.
Speaker 16: I had been calling to report a suspicious incident that
Speaker 16: just happened at my house because I thought I should
Speaker 16: someone just in case something happened.
Speaker 9: What was the incident?
Speaker 16: Some guy walked into my house and was just opened
Speaker 16: our door and came in and was asking me for money,
Speaker 16: and he came up our stairs.
Speaker 9: Okay, and one how long ago?
Speaker 16: This is about maybe ten minutes top.
Speaker 1: The caller lived on West Washington Avenue, two blocks away
Speaker 1: and a straight shot down an alley from Britney's apartment
Speaker 1: at Dodie Street.
Speaker 9: Okay, and you don't know whose person was, No, I
Speaker 9: have no idea.
Speaker 16: He said that him and his wife had a flat
Speaker 16: tire on East Washington ab and that he needed forty
Speaker 16: dollars to buy a tire. Okay, did he walk into
Speaker 16: your apartment? Because he walked into our house and came
Speaker 16: up this Sperry.
Speaker 1: Okay, the possibility that this man with a flat tire
Speaker 1: could be involved couldn't be overlooked with no idea who
Speaker 1: killed Britney. Anyone was a possible suspect, especially a middle
Speaker 1: aged man going from door to door asking for money
Speaker 1: for unison.
Speaker 5: This channel, this is really just information for you. I
Speaker 5: don't know if it has anything to do with your
Speaker 5: call or not. Five to five West Washington Avenue, five
Speaker 5: to five Westwah or Collar there says that about ten
Speaker 5: minutes ago, a bleep stranger washed under her house without
Speaker 5: any permission, answer for money for a plant fire, white male, fifties,
Speaker 5: gray hair, gray t shirts, red sweatshirt tied around his waist.
Speaker 1: That call would give a new theory on who killed Brittany.
Speaker 1: While she was an extraordinary person, her life was otherwise
Speaker 1: rather unremarkable. Aside from her academic achievements, she didn't have
Speaker 1: enemies wanting revenge or jealous friends. She didn't know anyone
Speaker 1: money and didn't have any to steal. She hadn't wronged
Speaker 1: anyone in any serious way. But considering the other nine
Speaker 1: to one one calls in the area, the idea that
Speaker 1: the murderer was committed by a stranger at rain them
Speaker 1: became very likely. Then there was another nine one one call.
Speaker 12: Nine one one was the interesting emergency, Sorry an emergency.
Speaker 12: I don't know if you can transfer me to a
Speaker 12: non emergency liner if I should.
Speaker 9: Tell you it's just fine. What's the problem.
Speaker 12: My neighbors directed me across the street. There are some
Speaker 12: kind of old men I think, drinking from a bag,
Speaker 12: sitting on the porch and looking in the windows, and
Speaker 12: I was just worried that there may be a ventilia,
Speaker 12: burglary or something that among those lines.
Speaker 1: This caller was a college student like Brittany and Jordan.
Speaker 1: He was waiting for the bus to take him to
Speaker 1: school when he noticed some suspicious activity.
Speaker 9: How many of how many people were there?
Speaker 12: Just two older men. I figure they're just taking a
Speaker 12: break or something, but it was the word They were
Speaker 12: looking at the mailbox or something like that too.
Speaker 1: To be clear, this call was about two other men,
Speaker 1: not the man with the flat tire begging for money.
Speaker 1: These two men were sharing a drink from a paper
Speaker 1: bag while looking through windows and rifling through mailboxes. It
Speaker 1: was certainly suspicious, and with the early theory that a
Speaker 1: stranger murdered Brittany. It was even more so. But to
Speaker 1: understand the obstacles in the investigation into Brittany's death, you
Speaker 1: have to know about the neighborhood she lived in. She
Speaker 1: lived on West Dote Street, just off South Bassett Street,
Speaker 1: in the Bassett neighborhood. Is it Bassett or Bassett? I
Speaker 1: guess it's the same difference between Boudet and Buddett. Who
Speaker 1: gives a shit? This area was sometimes called the student
Speaker 1: Triangle because of the proximity to the university campus only
Speaker 1: six blocks away. The neighborhood was a mix of students
Speaker 1: and apartments, families and small houses, and a few long term,
Speaker 1: low income tenants oh in transient foot traffic. The downtown
Speaker 1: air had homeless shelters, dropping shelters, and a bus depot
Speaker 1: with a mix of college students and transients. The area
Speaker 1: had a high call volume, so the police were there
Speaker 1: often at the same time. There were roughly fourteen hundred
Speaker 1: service calls a year, and one third of those were
Speaker 1: for panhandling and other loitering complaints. So when all the
Speaker 1: evidence at the scene of the crime pointed to a
Speaker 1: random person murdering Brittany, the police knew they had a
Speaker 1: difficult investigation on their hands, but the man with the
Speaker 1: flats hire entering people's homes and invited was their first
Speaker 1: possible lead.
Speaker 12: What were the.
Speaker 18: Time frames of when we called and when we had
Speaker 18: done then called the by one Fellar.
Speaker 5: It was about a five minute last between nicolls, so
Speaker 5: it checks be about fifteen al together, about fifteen altogether.
Speaker 18: Yeah, that description for second detailers. I want you at
Speaker 18: check in the area. I want to accompany you to
Speaker 18: it on the day's tree to check around that area
Speaker 18: and manage it in a three, four or five block area.
Speaker 18: Circle the area looking for that party. Once he's done
Speaker 18: doing that, and that I need Holth to respond down
Speaker 18: to Masters.
Speaker 1: And Dy's creations and police work coincidences are rare, so
Speaker 1: the idea of a man walking into someone's home within
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes of a home invasion and murder set off
Speaker 1: alarm belts. The police would quickly locate the man with
Speaker 1: the flat tire. He was known to the department as
Speaker 1: an active panhandler. David Call would walk around the neighborhood
Speaker 1: asking people for money at random, with some made up
Speaker 1: story to illicit sympathy. Turns out this homeless guy had
Speaker 1: exhausted his entire friends and family list for help. They
Speaker 1: had all had enough of them and said no thanks,
Speaker 1: and now society was left to deal with them. By
Speaker 1: the time they had an official interview, he was already
Speaker 1: in jail on a probation violation.
Speaker 2: Fifth on WI failure to register because I was homeless
Speaker 2: at the time, address and borrow money or.
Speaker 3: Falls free Johnsons.
Speaker 19: Okay, all right, and that was good to have to
Speaker 19: do with the houses downtown.
Speaker 3: That's kind of thing.
Speaker 9: No, that was.
Speaker 3: That was borrowed money from businesses and stuff. Okay, that's
Speaker 3: him the same thing paying him. Oh okay, all right,
Speaker 3: all right.
Speaker 1: Cal had a lengthy criminal record, stretching over sixteen years.
Speaker 1: At this point, he had a couple of counts of
Speaker 1: manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance in ninety two. In
Speaker 1: ninety three, he was charged with theft and second degree
Speaker 1: sexual assault. In two thousand and two, he was charged
Speaker 1: with possession of THHC. In two thousand and six, he
Speaker 1: was charged with failure to register as a sex offender.
Speaker 1: Are you aust yet because it's getting old anyway. A
Speaker 1: few days after that, he was charged with his fifth
Speaker 1: ow I or operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. That
Speaker 1: kills people, you know. But after learning about his history
Speaker 1: and talking to his parole officer, they didn't see him
Speaker 1: as a suspect. They saw him as a source for
Speaker 1: some reason.
Speaker 19: Second, Wisa and I are investigated in a number of
Speaker 19: different things, okay, and we're not We're not here to
Speaker 19: jamming up any further than the thing which you already are.
Speaker 15: Okay.
Speaker 3: That's not our that's not our purpose in any life.
Speaker 3: And with this interview, okay, I already know you know,
Speaker 3: I know about all the downtown stuff, you know, going
Speaker 3: to the houses.
Speaker 19: And that kind of thing, as well as like I said,
Speaker 19: I talk to your pels morning says you've always been decent,
Speaker 19: you know, with him, and that he didn't expect and
Speaker 19: he would have any difficulties talking to you today.
Speaker 3: And I don't have any reason to believe you know
Speaker 3: that you're involved than anything. Right now, I think that
Speaker 3: maybe you might be a witness to some things that
Speaker 3: you can help us out with.
Speaker 1: David Call shifted in a seat with a blank expression.
Speaker 1: He was forty two, but his white stubble beard and
Speaker 1: quickly graying hair made him look older than he was.
Speaker 1: His receding hairline didn't help matters either. He was of
Speaker 1: average height, but a little on the thin side. He
Speaker 1: grew up on his parents dairy farm and considered himself
Speaker 1: a farmer, but he never graduated high school, and since
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety two, when he was twenty six, he'd been
Speaker 1: in trouble with the law and spent several stints in prison.
Speaker 1: It didn't sound like he was much of a farmer,
Speaker 1: but he was a perfect informant.
Speaker 19: What I'd like to do, if it's okay with you,
Speaker 19: just use some photographs and you tell me if you
Speaker 19: know these people and how you know them. About that, okay,
Speaker 19: we're talking about we're talking about the people that were
Speaker 19: doing you know, we're all in the street like you were,
Speaker 19: you know, maybe with some scams, maybe going into houses
Speaker 19: and things like that.
Speaker 1: Over the course of time, he looked at each picture
Speaker 1: the officers showed him. They were all people who frequented
Speaker 1: the area around Brittany's home. Some he recognized but didn't
Speaker 1: know or couldn't place. Most he didn't know at all.
Speaker 3: Next quarographing number nine zero zero.
Speaker 19: Nine six again, nine zero zero six ninety six.
Speaker 3: That's don I know I heard, Yeah, where did you where?
Speaker 12: You know?
Speaker 3: Don from All was walking around the other day, right
Speaker 3: when when the police contacted you, or before before the
Speaker 3: police attacked you. Okay, where he probably from? Mike eleven?
Speaker 3: Tell about three o'clock I was.
Speaker 1: Finally he recognized some He said that the day Brittany
Speaker 1: was murdered, he was with a woman named Down. Together,
Speaker 1: they teamed up and started going door to door asking
Speaker 1: for money. The police had already talked to Don, but
Speaker 1: she couldn't or wouldn't cooperate, which was fine because police
Speaker 1: were more interested in the other two men they crossed
Speaker 1: paths with that day.
Speaker 3: Can you describe me a couple of guys that were
Speaker 3: with her? Those were supposedly Mitchell or Michael and then Hank.
Speaker 19: So Mitchell or Michael and Hank, and those are the
Speaker 19: guys that gave him the scription. Okay, Yeah, can you
Speaker 19: just in one more time for us? Can you describe
Speaker 19: Mitchell or Michael for us?
Speaker 2: Mitchell has long gone hair, ponytail is tied back, He's
Speaker 2: got a scot.
Speaker 3: On her right cheek, and Kurt Douglass dimple right here.
Speaker 19: Okay, And so then can you describe Hank to us?
Speaker 19: Hank is black Okay, short, real short.
Speaker 2: Curly hairs either. Guy, Like, it's not even like an
Speaker 2: afrom me. It's you know, short and curly, but it's
Speaker 2: like spaces in between it.
Speaker 3: Okay. I think it's all Finnan or brilliant. Okay.
Speaker 1: The reason they were so interested in these two men
Speaker 1: was that while calls m O was to ask for
Speaker 1: money for a flat tire, they had other methods.
Speaker 3: Those guys, I'm for open windows, climbing too, and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. It's like in an alley they're walking between
Speaker 3: two houses of their windows open and behind them as
Speaker 3: they're kind of scam okay, so just looking for open windows, open.
Speaker 2: Windows, knocking on doors and I don't know what there
Speaker 2: Also was mine was, like I say, for a flat tire.
Speaker 2: But I remember earlier that day, me and Don walked on.
Speaker 3: You know, it was door here the street over there
Speaker 3: was like two.
Speaker 2: Different girls down there, and I remember her telling them
Speaker 2: guys because I got my forty.
Speaker 3: Dollars either girl, but the girl had a lot of money.
Speaker 3: And I remember she's telling them, guys such and such
Speaker 3: dress down there.
Speaker 9: They got more.
Speaker 1: Remember, Carl said. The other two men were in the
Speaker 1: habit of burgling people. They would knock on the door
Speaker 1: and if no one answered, look for open windows. Once inside,
Speaker 1: they would steal everything worth money, laptops, cameras, cash, anything.
Speaker 1: The police started to wonder if these two men entered
Speaker 1: Brittany's home without realizing she was inside, and then the
Speaker 1: worst happened.
Speaker 2: Don told him on the guys and right away, let's
Speaker 2: go back and rob I ain't in and rob nobody
Speaker 2: else and scamming. I mean, they wanted to go back
Speaker 2: to rob somebo. I was like, I ain't in that
Speaker 2: ship there. You Don's like, man, she had like two
Speaker 2: three hundred dollars more.
Speaker 3: You know, let mean, let's try to do this.
Speaker 2: But I know when I left, the dumb guys you're
Speaker 2: gonna go back down and see if they can get
Speaker 2: some money. Okay, well that's when I knew I better
Speaker 2: hear it because they were being stupid to go back
Speaker 2: in the same.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, he was incredibly forthcoming, sharing everything he did and
Speaker 1: everywhere he went that day. He even openly admitted to
Speaker 1: any petty crimes he committed.
Speaker 3: Now I'm being charged to this, No, not not the
Speaker 3: things that we're talking about here today.
Speaker 19: Okay, what I'm trying to do is place you in
Speaker 19: particular locations at particular times and trying to help your
Speaker 19: memory so that we can try to find out who
Speaker 19: was in certain areas in that downtown area at different times. Okay, No,
Speaker 19: I'm not like I said, I didn't come here to data,
Speaker 19: you know.
Speaker 3: To hanging out with that.
Speaker 19: And certainly you've never done anything in a violent way
Speaker 19: and said to these people, there's no evidence of that whatsoever.
Speaker 19: And that's what that's sort of why we're here talking
Speaker 19: to you today, because we know that violence is not
Speaker 19: your Violence isn't your way to go ahead and get money.
Speaker 19: You're being successful enough on your own.
Speaker 1: Carl had an easy going demeanor with detectives. He was
Speaker 1: extremely polite, and even all the people he panhandled from
Speaker 1: described them as such. He reviewed all the pictures the
Speaker 1: police provided and helped create a timeline of his movements
Speaker 1: that day to determine where other transients were.
Speaker 19: And when you know you've been honest, honest with us
Speaker 19: here today, I mean you're certainly not you're certainly.
Speaker 3: Not not a suspect in any of those cases.
Speaker 19: Well, we'll we'll try to drum up Mitchell and Hank
Speaker 19: and if you hear anything in here when you get
Speaker 19: back into population, about other people that might know them
Speaker 19: or whatever, and you could give us give us a
Speaker 19: sip on that.
Speaker 1: The interview ended with Call providing a buckle swap for
Speaker 1: DNA testing. The detectives left with a new direction, finding
Speaker 1: Mitchell or Mark the man with the ponytail, and the
Speaker 1: Kurt Douglas dimple and Hank the black guy with thinning hair.
Speaker 1: They would search for months with no luck. If these
Speaker 1: guys were responsible, they were lying low. April faded and
Speaker 1: May turned into June before detectives realized it was July.
Speaker 1: In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother
Speaker 1: even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii
Speaker 1: to help fund a reward. During that time, a crime
Speaker 1: lab was processing DNA from the scene. Now, this is
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, when DNA testing wasn't as advanced
Speaker 1: as it is today. The samples taken from Brittany's crime
Speaker 1: scene were mixed, meaning they included two or more DNA profiles.
Speaker 1: Even so, they quickly found a match. The bad news
Speaker 1: was that it matched a DNA profile from an unsolved
Speaker 1: burglary at the Blue Moon Bar and Grill back in June.
Speaker 1: A link to another unsolved crime didn't help, and it
Speaker 1: only made the theory of a transient stranger committing the
Speaker 1: murder even stronger. So they went back to talk to
Speaker 1: Call again.
Speaker 20: Nothing has changed to I can't be I can't be
Speaker 20: more explicit with you, Okay, We're we are not considering
Speaker 20: any other charges against you, no matter what you'd tell me,
Speaker 20: tell me and Sam today in this interview.
Speaker 3: Regarding the personal stuff about what you were doing, you
Speaker 3: don't care about that, okay. Our focus is who killed Britney.
Speaker 9: I thought she caught again that was on that Marina one.
Speaker 9: The guy that was I'm sure that got killed.
Speaker 2: Like in January, we did catch somebody was saying something
Speaker 2: on the news or something already caught.
Speaker 9: The guy or something that guy this is the girl
Speaker 9: and I thought they had DNA.
Speaker 3: Too, or something on a knife or something that was
Speaker 3: from the marine O case. The guy they got killed
Speaker 3: back in January, a couple of months before the.
Speaker 2: One we're working out, okay, because they said they also
Speaker 2: fall on DNA or whatever and supposedly arrested somebody.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was curt in the cases.
Speaker 1: Carl seemed even more eager to talk with detectives than
Speaker 1: last time. He casually talked about the case, even cracking jokes.
Speaker 1: He'd been in jail for a few months by now.
Speaker 1: He we had plenty of time to think about that
Speaker 1: day to remember.
Speaker 3: You were the bid contains.
Speaker 20: Do you remember, with help me telling you, Marty, do
Speaker 20: you remember seeing the house that when you lived in?
Speaker 3: Yeah, on TV at some point earlier that day or
Speaker 3: any of the time that he knocked at that door.
Speaker 20: I have no idea, Okay, no recolection because I was
Speaker 20: bouncing from the street to street, house to house. Do
Speaker 20: you remember how many houses on her street that day
Speaker 20: day you might have made contact, probably almost all of
Speaker 20: them out of all of them, do you have any
Speaker 20: recollection how many you might have had people hold that
Speaker 20: came to the door when you knocked or ran.
Speaker 3: There wasn't a whole lot of people home.
Speaker 1: The conversation turned to Hank and the other guy. Detectives
Speaker 1: brought in a new set of photos to see if
Speaker 1: Carl recognized any of them. He didn't. Then the conversation
Speaker 1: turned to Dawn.
Speaker 3: Is she an't help at all?
Speaker 9: I mean, it's dizzy, I know that, but I mean,
Speaker 9: what can we use it against her to get her
Speaker 9: to be more corporate.
Speaker 3: If she wasn't, I don't know anything that you have
Speaker 3: to have something charges or something on the car. There's
Speaker 3: no chance that hank him into learn that book.
Speaker 2: No, No, I know their faces yet. Sure I tell
Speaker 2: you because I'd rather have you talk to him. That
Speaker 2: they did do so much that, Like I say, they
Speaker 2: did mention about Robin a few people at night.
Speaker 1: Point strangely engaged Paul was asking more questions than the detectives.
Speaker 9: Was she raped at all?
Speaker 3: I can't tell you that I want to. I just
Speaker 3: wondered any instincts on that, and I just was wondering
Speaker 3: if she was raped or not. Just something we can't
Speaker 3: think about. But you understand, we keep a lot, try
Speaker 3: to keep a lot of information.
Speaker 2: Because I figured that's another reason why they picked me
Speaker 2: up too, because I had a sexual assault.
Speaker 3: Do you guys have anything at all?
Speaker 20: I mean, yeah, we've got.
Speaker 3: A bunch of stuff working and every day new stuff
Speaker 3: comes in.
Speaker 21: But still.
Speaker 3: Do you think it was Hank?
Speaker 9: And until we can find them and talk to them,
Speaker 9: you can't eliminatum.
Speaker 3: So that's what we need to find out where they are.
Speaker 2: If you can the almost people on the sketches identified
Speaker 2: them and so that they've seen them, because I mean,
Speaker 2: if I coummated a murder, I sure get out of Madison,
Speaker 2: Madison small. I mean I wouldn't want to stick around
Speaker 2: to Madison. Yeah, I mean I'd take off. I mean,
Speaker 2: if I would have killed her, I would have been gone.
Speaker 2: You guys have never found me, right, I ever went
Speaker 2: back to my barment.
Speaker 3: I mean that's glad to right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: While the police continued their search for the two mystery men,
Speaker 1: the public wanted answers. They needed to know that they
Speaker 1: were safe in their own homes. That's when the public
Speaker 1: backlash started. The news media started requesting public records, but
Speaker 1: when the requests were fulfilled, some records were withheld, others delayed,
Speaker 1: and most were redacted. The news media smelled something fishy
Speaker 1: and pushed back, requesting more and more records. They requested
Speaker 1: nine to one one call logs, dispatch records, audio recordings,
Speaker 1: dispatcher notes, and even internal reviews or audits related to
Speaker 1: the nine to one one call center. When that too, failed,
Speaker 1: they filed suit.
Speaker 22: There were substantial revelations that brought into the public domain
Speaker 22: as a result of this lawsuit.
Speaker 1: The public was in fear and suddenly realized the police
Speaker 1: were withholding things from them. What revelations were made public,
Speaker 1: you might be asking, well settling. The lawsuit forced the
Speaker 1: city to release another nine one one.
Speaker 22: Call, including the fact that the tape did contain sounds
Speaker 22: of a struggle and screen.
Speaker 1: The nine when one call had been marked as incomplete
Speaker 1: or misdialed. In other words, the operator didn't hear anyone
Speaker 1: on the line, but the call in question came from
Speaker 1: Brittany's home one.
Speaker 9: What's the address to the emergency?
Speaker 23: Hello?
Speaker 9: Nine one one.
Speaker 1: The police were aware of this very early on, but
Speaker 1: didn't inform the public. They said the state of the
Speaker 1: phone systems at the E nine to one one center
Speaker 1: made it so that the operator did not hear the screen.
Speaker 1: It was only after they pulled the recording that they
Speaker 1: noticed in the recording it was clearly a woman screaming.
Speaker 1: Then they heard what sounded like someone saying stop, along
Speaker 1: with the sounds of what could only be an assault.
Speaker 1: Then the line disconnected per protocol. The operator called the
Speaker 1: number back.
Speaker 9: Hello, hiding coming in one one calling your phone? Called up?
Speaker 9: Were you just using the phone?
Speaker 12: Yeah?
Speaker 15: Okayne?
Speaker 12: Oh we might have read that's a red button.
Speaker 15: Yeah yeah, okay, all right, we just.
Speaker 9: Had to check in.
Speaker 15: Yeah, okay, thanks.
Speaker 1: But this forced transparency caused outrage. Not only were two
Speaker 1: men on the recording, but Brittany called nine one one
Speaker 1: nearly an hour before her fiancee, Jordan Founder. This revelation
Speaker 1: would lead to the Zimmermans filing a wrongful death lawsuit
Speaker 1: against the city in two thousand and nine. They would
Speaker 1: settle the suit the following year and put all the
Speaker 1: money towards a scholarship fund in Brittany's name. They said
Speaker 1: it wasn't about the money, it was about not letting
Speaker 1: this happen to any one else. The E nine one
Speaker 1: one Center would undergo many equipment upgrades and dispatcher training,
Speaker 1: a lot of covering your ass after the damage is done.
Speaker 1: But while the police were dodging the public outrage, they
Speaker 1: received an anonymous letter in late two thousand and nine.
Speaker 1: The letter was from the Fox Lake Correctional Facility. It
Speaker 1: claimed an inmate with the initials of f R and
Speaker 1: his friends killed Brittany. The detectives investigated this anonymous tip,
Speaker 1: but nothing came out of it. Around this time, the
Speaker 1: case also lost its first lead detective who transferred out
Speaker 1: of the department. With his departure, the next detective would
Speaker 1: have to start all over again. The new detective revisited
Speaker 1: all the evidence, including the DNA. They resubmitted the samples,
Speaker 1: and they reprocessed them. By twenty eleven, the mixed samples
Speaker 1: were degraded, but the technology had improved. When they got
Speaker 1: the results back, they knew they needed to speak with
Speaker 1: David call yet again.
Speaker 9: You were going door to door.
Speaker 24: In Brittany's neighborhood that day, right, yeah, okay, me and
Speaker 24: Don and then other guys.
Speaker 3: Other guys meaning these two guys were talking about. Okay,
Speaker 3: the something that is I mentioned you some evidence that
Speaker 3: came up.
Speaker 20: As you can.
Speaker 3: Imagine the house we had the crimeline process, everything.
Speaker 20: DNA was developed, some things that Brittany had at the
Speaker 20: time she was killed.
Speaker 3: And that's the main reason detect Lukin I.
Speaker 15: Wanted to sit on and talk to you today.
Speaker 2: That DNA is consistent with.
Speaker 9: Your DNA.
Speaker 3: And that was just developed recently. Can you explain why
Speaker 3: your DNA would be on in our house even id no.
Speaker 2: Idea unless it was one of the houses that we
Speaker 2: were breaking into that day.
Speaker 20: How many houses did you break into well, I mean.
Speaker 2: Them guys like I see we go in there, we
Speaker 2: break in, you know, I'll go through stuff, ving jury laptops.
Speaker 16: Okay.
Speaker 1: While Call's story had been consistent for years, this time
Speaker 1: he revealed more. He had been with two other men
Speaker 1: helping him burgle homes for items to sell. He offered
Speaker 1: this up as a possible explanation to how his DNA
Speaker 1: could have even ended up at Brittany's house.
Speaker 16: The DNA that we have.
Speaker 20: Could not have gotten there by you being in simply
Speaker 20: her apartments.
Speaker 9: It would have been it's there.
Speaker 15: Because he touched her, she touched you.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I'm saying to you. Well, am I
Speaker 3: being charge with anything yet?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 15: So absolutely not.
Speaker 3: Why I mean.
Speaker 15: I don't know what's the stadium.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know I cooperated all the way to
Speaker 3: those you guys. Yeah, and we appreciate that, and that's
Speaker 3: why that's why we have you.
Speaker 16: To come back.
Speaker 3: No, you say you got being a from me, I mean.
Speaker 15: We're trying to figure that out.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 16: Yeah, so I best talked to the lawyer.
Speaker 19: I mean when you approached me, So the only way
Speaker 19: to get there is if I touched her or something.
Speaker 3: So that's pretty fucked up right there. I mean, whether
Speaker 3: I ship.
Speaker 2: Her hand that day, Like I say, I remember her
Speaker 2: now because of the pictures in the faces, you.
Speaker 9: Know what I mean, and then being on the news.
Speaker 25: But at that day when everything happened, I remember that
Speaker 25: was fun of the people that obed.
Speaker 1: He said, maybe he did ask Brittany for money that day,
Speaker 1: but he didn't recall it. If he did, maybe he
Speaker 1: shook her hand or gave her a hug. But after
Speaker 1: that he thought it wise to consult a lawyer. The
Speaker 1: reason he wasn't being charged then in there is that
Speaker 1: police were hoping for a confession. The reprocessing of DNA
Speaker 1: didn't provide a match. Call wasn't a perfect match, but
Speaker 1: he couldn't be excluded either. Remember DNA samples were mixed
Speaker 1: and degraded. This is the best the lab could do.
Speaker 1: The District attorney's office wouldn't prosecute with so little evidence
Speaker 1: without a confession and call lawyering up. The case started
Speaker 1: to stall. The next year, in twenty twelve, another detective
Speaker 1: took over the case. It continued to drift. In twenty fourteen,
Speaker 1: the department got a new chief. With the regime change,
Speaker 1: the department underwent restructuring twenty fifteen provided no new leads either.
Speaker 1: Then in twenty sixteen, a tip came in. A man
Speaker 1: named Skulls said that Call confessed to him while in prison.
Speaker 23: Together.
Speaker 1: This would have cinched the conviction, except that Skulls was
Speaker 1: leveraging this information to obtain a pardon. Jail house snitches
Speaker 1: with a motive are rarely credible. This claim wasn't immediately
Speaker 1: considered a reliable lead. It got stuck in internal administrative
Speaker 1: channels before ever going to detectives. That same year, the
Speaker 1: new detective met with Call. The interview lasted only two
Speaker 1: and a half minutes before he politely shut it down.
Speaker 24: Day would be having a conversation with you.
Speaker 3: We are now here for any reason that you.
Speaker 24: Are currently here, but fortunately so we have to make
Speaker 24: sure you understand that you have rights. Okay, I know
Speaker 24: you had your right spread to you in the past.
Speaker 24: You know how many times you had your right threads
Speaker 24: to you in the past, and you had your right
Speaker 24: spread to you in the basket She's.
Speaker 1: Done at the Sinner ran a few times is an understatement.
Speaker 1: Carl had spent the eight years since the death of
Speaker 1: Brittany in and out of jail for various charges. He
Speaker 1: knew the routine and with the lingering fear of DNA
Speaker 1: and now the claim by Skulls call, wasn't willing to
Speaker 1: cooperate having these.
Speaker 24: Rights in mind, you wish to talk to us now
Speaker 24: rather than not.
Speaker 3: But I'm Frey advised me not too.
Speaker 2: Okay, here's up here a week or two ago, and said,
Speaker 2: don't talk anymore.
Speaker 15: Okay, So there you go.
Speaker 2: I've been cooperating, like I say, said the Geregle, just
Speaker 2: the ball that reviews and runner.
Speaker 10: And then he asked me why and all Andrew's bold
Speaker 10: and I sent the letter.
Speaker 15: I think it was.
Speaker 3: Detective Miller with Andrew sposed to call me a.
Speaker 2: Rat and throwing him out of the boss why he
Speaker 2: was gonna.
Speaker 25: Try to make a deal with you guys or something?
Speaker 25: Football play so I whatever, I have a name talent.
Speaker 25: He said, you just gotta pan on somebody and anybody
Speaker 25: that you can get you to FID.
Speaker 3: So I'm done operating. Well, we are only englished in
Speaker 3: the truth. I'll say that not to you, but in general.
Speaker 20: Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: If you're right, okay, thank you very much, yep, thank you.
Speaker 1: Another attempt at getting a confession from a man who
Speaker 1: consistently claimed he wasn't involved. They always polite call chose
Speaker 1: to remain silent. Twenty sixteen would have in twenty seventeen
Speaker 1: would start with the new year came yet another new detective.
Speaker 1: A full review of the case started yet again. But
Speaker 1: before the claims of Andrew's skulls could be vetted or verified,
Speaker 1: he died in a motorcycle accident. By the time anyone
Speaker 1: considered the tip a viable lead, he was already gone.
Speaker 1: This brought investigators to the tenth anniversary of Brittany's death
Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen. Her family was still waiting for answers.
Speaker 1: After ten years, the community had largely moved on. The
Speaker 1: case had survived longer than the people assigned to it.
Speaker 1: What no one realized yet was that the piece of
Speaker 1: evidence that would finally break the case had been sitting
Speaker 1: in a storage locker for nearly a decade. For years,
Speaker 1: police had DNA, but not the kind that gives answers.
Speaker 1: The samples from Britney's apartment were mixed or DNA was everywhere.
Speaker 1: Whatever the attacker left behind was tangled up with it.
Speaker 1: The testing could only rule people out, but it couldn't
Speaker 1: point to exactly one person, David call could not be excluded,
Speaker 1: It could not be charged either. As the years passed
Speaker 1: and technology improved to actives kept trying, the results stayed
Speaker 1: the same. Too much doubt, not enough proof, hell of
Speaker 1: a system. Until one day in twenty twenty, something finally changed.
Speaker 1: But before moving forward, police returned to the one man
Speaker 1: they had never been able to rule out. David Kall,
Speaker 1: How much do you know about Britney?
Speaker 3: Not anything she said she was murdered.
Speaker 10: She was a college kid, she loved animals, and she
Speaker 10: wanted to go to med school was her major. She
Speaker 10: was a little with the guys she was engaged to.
Speaker 10: And I'm not trying to pull out her heart strengths here.
Speaker 10: And it's just not explaining to you why this is
Speaker 10: a serious case that the massive police department in our
Speaker 10: office is kept looking at.
Speaker 11: For fourty years.
Speaker 10: Your story, you know, over time is different, okay, And
Speaker 10: I think I don't know how much you remember of
Speaker 10: different times you've said things, and it's changed a.
Speaker 3: Little bit today, coun times I was drum right, and
Speaker 3: I get that, ye, and your DNA does.
Speaker 10: Based on how today's science books is telling us that
Speaker 10: it's very likely that it's your DNA on Britney's sleeves,
Speaker 10: as well as especially your genes.
Speaker 1: Okay, it had been twelve years since Britney's murder, and
Speaker 1: Carl had aged quite a bit. He was now fifty
Speaker 1: three years old and looked every bit of it. He
Speaker 1: had gained weight, and what little hair he had left
Speaker 1: was even more gray. But he had been confronted with
Speaker 1: DNA evidence before, so he remained calm as he heard
Speaker 1: the detective out, do.
Speaker 3: You know more about would happen to her?
Speaker 10: And what you're worried about is that you're the person
Speaker 10: all the evidence points out, but you still.
Speaker 3: Aren't the most cultorable person the drums would actually happened
Speaker 3: to her.
Speaker 10: We're just trying to figure out if there are other
Speaker 10: people involved. Is there anything else you can think of
Speaker 10: that you can tell us, or something that you haven't
Speaker 10: want to talk about that you feel some important that
Speaker 10: we know about what happened, not just for Britney's sake,
Speaker 10: but for your own sake in terms of I was
Speaker 10: there something happened, but I'm not the person who strangled
Speaker 10: her and stamped her, you know, and she basically died
Speaker 10: a really miserable death.
Speaker 1: Detective Nail reminded Call that he had previously admitted he
Speaker 1: was involved in burglaries that day. Call said he didn't
Speaker 1: remember that at all. Twelve years is a long time
Speaker 1: to remember every detail of a story, he gave, especially
Speaker 1: when it's just a story and not something that actually happened.
Speaker 26: If you guys had entered this place and maybe she
Speaker 26: came home and found you, or you guys surprised her, again,
Speaker 26: I need to I mean, that's what I need to know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't in there, old money from her.
Speaker 3: I used their bathroom. I believe I had a glass
Speaker 3: of water, and then I left.
Speaker 26: You do remember being in Britney's place?
Speaker 14: Then?
Speaker 22: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: Suddenly, for the first time, he remembered being in Britney's apartment.
Speaker 1: He even remembered specific details about using the bathroom and
Speaker 1: drinking a glass of water. Where was all this recollection
Speaker 1: all these years ago?
Speaker 3: Well, was that you getting a glass of water and
Speaker 3: using the bathroom? I'm not sure. I'm not sure how
Speaker 3: that gets your DNA on her hants.
Speaker 1: Even with flaws in his claims, pointed out, Call stuck
Speaker 1: to it he wasn't involved in Britney's death, but the
Speaker 1: evidence said otherwise. After all these years, the detectives just
Speaker 1: wanted to put the Zimmerman's mind at ease.
Speaker 3: David, I gotta say, I'm sorry, but do you love
Speaker 3: your mom?
Speaker 19: That Brittany has a mom out there who loved her
Speaker 19: so much, and she deserves to know even just a
Speaker 19: little bit.
Speaker 3: Of what you can tell us.
Speaker 1: The detective told him they believed they had enough evidence
Speaker 1: to implicate him, but they wanted to know whether anyone
Speaker 1: else was involved. Call, though never cracked. He stuck to
Speaker 1: his newest version of events. He never confessed to anything.
Speaker 27: On April tewod two thousand and eight, almost twelve years ago,
Speaker 27: Britney Zimmerman was killed in her downtown Madison apartment. Today
Speaker 27: I can announce that criminal chargers have been filed in
Speaker 27: her death.
Speaker 9: David Call, a.
Speaker 27: Fifty three year old male, has been charged in Dane
Speaker 27: County Circuit Court with first degree intentional homicide, as a
Speaker 27: party to a crime, and with a dangerous weapon. In
Speaker 27: the years that have passed, her case never went cold
Speaker 27: and was never anything but a priority for MPD investigated
Speaker 27: work tirelessly over the years, following leads, conducting hundreds of interviews,
Speaker 27: processing countless pieces of evidence, and producing thousands of pages
Speaker 27: of police reports. Britney's parents, Kevin and Jean, have remained
Speaker 27: heavily invested in the case over the years. They've met
Speaker 27: regularly with MPD investigators and MPD leadership. They're asking for
Speaker 27: privacy during this difficult time. Call is currently incarcerated in
Speaker 27: the Wisconsin prison system on unrelated charges. At some point
Speaker 27: he'll be transported to Dane County for proceedings in connection
Speaker 27: with this case. This was truly a senseless crime, taking
Speaker 27: the life of a young woman with a bright future.
Speaker 27: Nothing we do can change that. But my hope is
Speaker 27: that what happens today will be a significant step in
Speaker 27: the process.
Speaker 9: To do justice for Brittany and for her family.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Finally, David Call was charged with first degree murder intentional homicide.
Speaker 1: When Detective Nail took over Brittany Zimmerman's case in twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: he didn't start with suspects. He started with boxes, evidence bags,
Speaker 1: old reports, things that hadn't been touched in years. He
Speaker 1: didn't just review it, he reevaluated it. That's when he
Speaker 1: saw it. The anonymous letter from two thousand and nine
Speaker 1: implicating an inmate by the initials f R. The contents
Speaker 1: of the letter had been deemed unreliable and it was
Speaker 1: filed away in a box, but Detective Nail was thorough
Speaker 1: and sent the letter and its envelope for DNA testing.
Speaker 1: The test results proved that the letter had been penned, licked,
Speaker 1: and sealed by David Kall. The DNA on Brittany and
Speaker 1: in her apartment wasn't a perfect match, but the DNA
Speaker 1: on the envelope was, without a doubt a match. The
Speaker 1: Zimmermans were beside themselves with relief and the odd sense
Speaker 1: that the emotions they had been dealing with for over
Speaker 1: a decade would soon be gone.
Speaker 28: And along with my parents have become emotionally comm scarred
Speaker 28: and numb. My family have been waiting twelve years, eight
Speaker 28: months in one day or this decaided for us to
Speaker 28: be able to see this individual.
Speaker 1: During Kaul's arraignment, he stood silent and a not guilty
Speaker 1: plea was entered on his behalf, But two years later,
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, he would agree to a plea
Speaker 1: deal and plead guilty to.
Speaker 21: Count one first degree intentional homicide.
Speaker 9: What is your plea guilty your honor are you Are you.
Speaker 21: Cleading guilty because you did intentionally cause the death of
Speaker 21: Britney Zimmermann.
Speaker 1: Yes, you are call admitted he killed Brittany. He saw
Speaker 1: her getting home from school and followed her breaking into
Speaker 1: her apartment. He likely gave the usual spiel about needing
Speaker 1: money for a flat tire.
Speaker 11: You know the.
Speaker 1: Excuses you hear just outside Panera bread from the homeless
Speaker 1: man who you're going to sign a Disney like storyline to.
Speaker 1: Whereas he's closer to a virus, a plague on society,
Speaker 1: something that rots it from within. But you do you,
Speaker 1: and you can be as generous as you like with
Speaker 1: your spare change. His family wasn't, his friends aren't if
Speaker 1: he has any. But you can go ahead and think
Speaker 1: the best and and over a couple quarters, go right
Speaker 1: ahead and enjoy. Brittany didn't fall for it, though, She
Speaker 1: refused to give him any money and started to call
Speaker 1: nine to one one. That's when he snapped and attacked her.
Speaker 1: She fought back. Furniture was knocked around in the struggle,
Speaker 1: so he wrapped his sweatshirt around her neck and pulled
Speaker 1: it tight. He got up on top of her and
Speaker 1: stabbed her nineteen times in the chest. Then he fled
Speaker 1: and spent the next fourteen years pretending it never happened.
Speaker 1: Homeless people don't get homeless by accident. You know, It's
Speaker 1: rarely ever the sob story you hear on publicly supported airwaves. Anyway,
Speaker 1: During the sentencing, Brittany's aunt addressed the.
Speaker 23: Court, we as a family have nothing but pain, We
Speaker 23: have nothing but daily reminders, and we've had nothing but
Speaker 23: torture for fourteen and a half years while he did
Speaker 23: his soul searching to decide to come clean. I think
Speaker 23: it takes a lot of audacity for someone in custody
Speaker 23: to request a transfer from the county jail to the
Speaker 23: state prison because he thinks he will get better medical
Speaker 23: care after he has stripped my family of an incredibly loved,
Speaker 23: an amazing human who wanted to do nothing but good
Speaker 23: things in this world.
Speaker 1: Then David Call addressed the court and the family with
Speaker 1: an apology that was anything but sincere.
Speaker 2: I would like to apologize to everybody, specially Roman families.
Speaker 2: I took away Brittany's twenty one year old life.
Speaker 3: Family that she could have had.
Speaker 9: I just feel horrible.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 9: I was just I feel horrible, and I make scept
Speaker 9: some halishments coma.
Speaker 1: The apology fell short of giving the Zimmermans any comfort.
Speaker 1: David Call just seemed like an old man at the
Speaker 1: end of a rope. At the time, Call was seriously ill,
Speaker 1: his years of hard living had finally caught up with him.
Speaker 1: His plea agreement seemed to be more self serving than
Speaker 1: anything else. In prison, he would get better medical care,
Speaker 1: being the parasite he was.
Speaker 17: You did finally take responsibility for you did, and you
Speaker 17: did plead guilty, and as I say that, you did
Speaker 17: spare her family and friends.
Speaker 9: The agony is going.
Speaker 21: Through a public trial, but it does not negate the
Speaker 21: years of your off uscation.
Speaker 9: And obstruction regarding the investigation.
Speaker 21: In this case, there is such a sense of us
Speaker 21: and sadness and pain there, and the weed of almost
Speaker 21: fifteen years to get to this moment was excruciating.
Speaker 9: It just was excruciating.
Speaker 21: So many lives have been tragically altered by your actions,
Speaker 21: mister Call. I do conclude, mister Call, that you must
Speaker 21: be removed from society for the rest of your life.
Speaker 21: The magnitude of your crime demands it, your character demands it,
Speaker 21: and the protection of the public demands it.
Speaker 17: It is the just and right thing to do.
Speaker 1: David Call was sentenced to life in prison without the
Speaker 1: possibility of release. After sentencing, the Zimmerman family held a
Speaker 1: press conference.
Speaker 11: We knew in between basically that he was going, that
Speaker 11: he had asked to stay there forever. Our thoughts on
Speaker 11: that were it was self serving. As Kim had said,
Speaker 11: he only did it so that his family and his
Speaker 11: mother specifically would not have to hear the gruesome details
Speaker 11: of what he did to our daughter. That is our belief.
Speaker 11: I guess I can't talk for him, but that is
Speaker 11: my belief and why he did what he did. I
Speaker 11: don't think he, you know, had a come to Jesus moment.
Speaker 11: Why he confessed all of a sudden fourteen and a
Speaker 11: half year later and he had to get it off
Speaker 11: his chest. I think he was scared to death. He knew,
Speaker 11: like you know, it was said, the walls were closing in.
Speaker 11: He had no choice.
Speaker 1: After years of suffering and wondering if their daughter's killer
Speaker 1: would ever be brought to justice, the Zimmermans could finally relax,
Speaker 1: but in Brittany's death, they found their voice, a voice
Speaker 1: to fight against injustice.
Speaker 4: What he did was.
Speaker 11: Unspeakable and to not have the person responsible for that
Speaker 11: hind mars it was unacceptable to us. So we were
Speaker 11: willing and we did whatever we had to do. Our
Speaker 11: family has been our number one supporters. I mean, my
Speaker 11: sister's been it every single solitary thing with us.
Speaker 23: She is our speaker. This was every step the loss
Speaker 23: from to the nine one one center, etc. It was
Speaker 23: never about money. It was about doing the right thing
Speaker 23: for everyone else. So it was to make sure that
Speaker 23: there wasn't another parent who was going to lose their.
Speaker 11: Child to a dropped call.
Speaker 23: It was it was always about trying to do the
Speaker 23: right thing, which was what Forney's entire life was about,
Speaker 23: was doing the right thing. And that's in part what
Speaker 23: is so heartbreaking about the events of her murder is
Speaker 23: that she did everything right and that wasn't met by
Speaker 23: people doing the right thing for her. And so that's
Speaker 23: been it's been the irony.
Speaker 11: And the heartbreak of all of it.
Speaker 1: Justice didn't give the Zimmermans their daughter back. It didn't
Speaker 1: give them the years they spent waiting or the milestones
Speaker 1: they'll never get to see. What it did give them
Speaker 1: was an ending and the knowledge that they never stopped
Speaker 1: doing the right thing. Over the years, that choice has
Speaker 1: cost them more than time. Britney's mother used the money
Speaker 1: that had been set aside for her wedding to help
Speaker 1: fund the reward for information about her killer. They gave interviews,
Speaker 1: They relived the worst day of their lives over and
Speaker 1: over again and again. They refuse to let the case
Speaker 1: and Britney's voice go quiet. And because of cases like Brittany,
Speaker 1: something did change. Wisconsin law was updated to expand the
Speaker 1: circumstances under which DNA is collected from people in the
Speaker 1: criminal justice system, a shift to prevent evidence from sitting
Speaker 1: in limbo, as it did in this case. It didn't
Speaker 1: come soon enough for Brittany, but it may mean answers
Speaker 1: come sooner for someone else. And isn't that all we
Speaker 1: can do on this rock, on this spin around the sun,
Speaker 1: Just make it slightly better for the next person. If
Speaker 1: you're homeless, you may not give a fuck, But if
Speaker 1: you care about the future of this thing we are humanity,
Speaker 1: then you might want to do just that. That's gonna
Speaker 1: do it for another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank
Speaker 1: you for joining us. If you have a technical issue,
Speaker 1: you can reach us at Support at swordinscale dot com
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Speaker 1: Go to swordscale dot com for more info and we'll
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Speaker 1: safe until that.
Speaker 15: Hoping people scouting about abating textu