WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

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<v Speaker 1>not intended for all audiences.

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<v Speaker 2>Listener discretion is advised. Madison Small, I mean i'd take off.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, if I would have killed her, I would

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<v Speaker 2>have been gone. You guys have never found me, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I would never even went back to my apartment.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's I'm glad you go right there.

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<v Speaker 1>This is season thirteen, episode three hundred and fifty six

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<v Speaker 1>of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the

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<v Speaker 1>worst monsters are real. It's an overcast day in March

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen. The winter snow is finally giving way as

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<v Speaker 1>the weather warms. Kevin and Jean Zimmerman sit in their

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<v Speaker 1>living room with lights, a camera, and a local reporter

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<v Speaker 1>staring back at them.

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<v Speaker 4>Does time sort of stop for you on that day

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<v Speaker 4>on April second? Absolutely in two thousand and eight, Like,

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<v Speaker 4>do you feel like you can you know that it

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<v Speaker 4>is ten years later?

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<v Speaker 2>No?

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<v Speaker 5>I don't.

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<v Speaker 6>Oh no, it's quite unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 7>That is ten years already.

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<v Speaker 6>It's, you know, completely unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>They've done countless interviews over the years, and they're willing

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<v Speaker 1>to do thousands more, anything to keep their daughter's case alive.

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<v Speaker 8>How often do you think about that day?

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<v Speaker 7>Every day, every single day.

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<v Speaker 6>We thought it was going to be solved right away.

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<v Speaker 6>We didn't even consider that this that we'd be here

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<v Speaker 6>ten years later.

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<v Speaker 1>Three days after this interview would mark ten years since

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<v Speaker 1>their daughter, Brittany was killed. In that decade, the case

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<v Speaker 1>had passed through three police chiefs and four lead detectives,

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<v Speaker 1>years of work, with little to show for it. Only

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<v Speaker 1>once did they think they were close.

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<v Speaker 8>Why do you think there hasn't been unarrest or even

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<v Speaker 8>seemingly like a person of interest or a major break

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<v Speaker 8>in the case.

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<v Speaker 9>I mean that we thought there was.

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<v Speaker 6>You know, it was two and a half years ago.

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<v Speaker 6>Chief Cobalt came to our door on my husband's birthday

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<v Speaker 6>and said, we believe we have the person responsible for

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<v Speaker 6>killing your daughter the summer ninth.

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<v Speaker 1>That moment came in twenty sixteen, but two years later

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<v Speaker 1>there was still no arrest. All the Zimmerman's could do

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<v Speaker 1>was hold on to hope.

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<v Speaker 7>That's all we have is hope.

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<v Speaker 10>We can hope.

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<v Speaker 11>Yeah, but.

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<v Speaker 7>Realistically, I'm not really sure that they're ever going to

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<v Speaker 7>solve this, at least not the way it's being handled

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<v Speaker 7>right now. I just don't believe it.

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<v Speaker 1>When parents lose a child, they're powerless to do anything

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<v Speaker 1>but wait. Justice moves on its own timeline, and in

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<v Speaker 1>the Zimmerman's case, that timeline stretched endlessly. These interviews, these

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<v Speaker 1>small acts of advocacy, were all they had control over.

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<v Speaker 1>If speaking publicly could help or speed up catching Brittany's killer,

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<v Speaker 1>they'd do it every day for the rest of their

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<v Speaker 1>lives to make that happen.

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<v Speaker 8>What would you really tell people about why they should

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<v Speaker 8>rack their brains.

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<v Speaker 7>Because if it was your child, you'd want everybody in

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<v Speaker 7>the world to rack their brains for you.

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<v Speaker 6>Put yourself in our shoes just for a second.

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<v Speaker 7>Just for a second, put yourself in our shoes.

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<v Speaker 12>And what.

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<v Speaker 7>This little girl meant everything to us? And you know

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<v Speaker 7>she was never there to hurt anybody. She was always

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<v Speaker 7>there to help people.

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<v Speaker 1>Photos of Brittany still aligned every wall of their home,

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<v Speaker 1>a family scarred by tragedy, frozen in time, clinging to

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<v Speaker 1>whatever hope remained, and wondering whether the case would ever

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<v Speaker 1>be solved. Meanwhile, the police department continued to work on

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<v Speaker 1>their decade old investigation.

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<v Speaker 13>This is not what I would consider been relegated to

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<v Speaker 13>a case. This still has active leads that are worthy.

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<v Speaker 1>The Zimmermans knew little about the leads detectives were chasing.

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<v Speaker 1>They only knew that two years earlier, the police chief

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<v Speaker 1>had told him they had the guy, but there had

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<v Speaker 1>been no arrests. They were completely in the dark.

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<v Speaker 13>If I had the probable cause, based on the totality

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<v Speaker 13>of the evidence I had, don't you think I would

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<v Speaker 13>have made an arrest.

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<v Speaker 1>It turned out that the chief had spoken too soon.

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<v Speaker 1>It was one of many missteps in an investigation that

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<v Speaker 1>had been plagued by setbacks from the start. One of

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<v Speaker 1>the biggest was losing the longtime lead investigator. The emotional

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<v Speaker 1>toll of the case eventually became too heavy to bear.

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<v Speaker 14>He was convulsing at one point, and then I was convulsed,

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<v Speaker 14>and I realized, we can't continue to sign cases this way.

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<v Speaker 1>The chiefs wore that moving forward, a team of investigators

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<v Speaker 1>would carry the case. He was confident they would solve

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<v Speaker 1>it eventually.

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<v Speaker 14>The old school cop and me still hopes now that

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<v Speaker 14>slips will sink ships.

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<v Speaker 13>Someone's going to say something to somebody about this case in.

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<v Speaker 12>A bar or overheard.

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<v Speaker 1>But even if they did, even if the killer was

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<v Speaker 1>finally behind bars, the Zimmerman's knew it would bring them

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<v Speaker 1>little comfort. What they wanted most was the one thing

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<v Speaker 1>that no investigation could return.

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<v Speaker 7>She would be a doctor right now that she wanted

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<v Speaker 7>to be, and we would be proud of her, and

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<v Speaker 7>we could go visit her on her animal farm and

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<v Speaker 7>everything she wanted because she loved animals. That's what we wish,

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<v Speaker 7>you know, that she could live her life the way

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<v Speaker 7>she wanted to.

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<v Speaker 1>They had thought the case would be solved quickly by

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen. They simply hoped it would be solved at all.

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<v Speaker 1>Their nightmare started on April second, two thousand and eight,

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<v Speaker 1>when their daughter was attacked inside her apartment in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of the day. The mistake started almost immediately. And

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<v Speaker 1>to understand how this case remained open for a decade,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to go back to the start.

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<v Speaker 6>Monday will mark ten years as a brutal murder that

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<v Speaker 6>rocked downtown Madison.

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<v Speaker 5>It's been five years since Britty Zimmerman was killed here

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<v Speaker 5>on a Jonas Street.

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<v Speaker 1>Friday will mark the two year anniversary of the Madison

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<v Speaker 1>murder of Brittany Zimmerman. It's April second, two thousand and eight.

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<v Speaker 1>Jordan Gonnering hops on his moped and heads towards the

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<v Speaker 1>University of Wisconsin Madison campus. This Beyonce. Brittany is already

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<v Speaker 1>in class. She had a big test that morning. He

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<v Speaker 1>rides a short distance to campus from their apartment and

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<v Speaker 1>joining the sun. It wouldn't feel so cold if it

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<v Speaker 1>weren't for the wind, he thinks to himself. He gets

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<v Speaker 1>back to campus at around eleven thirty. He goes out

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<v Speaker 1>on one of the balconies of the Van Hies Building

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<v Speaker 1>and scans the quad for Brittany. She turns her phone

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<v Speaker 1>off in class, but he knows she'll be coming out

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<v Speaker 1>of the Bacteriology building. Then he spots her. She stands

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<v Speaker 1>out with her golden hair and the collar of her

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<v Speaker 1>lime green pea coat pulled up around her neck. He

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<v Speaker 1>calls her name. She looks around for a moment before

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<v Speaker 1>looking up to the balcony. A smile spreads across her

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<v Speaker 1>face when she sees Jordan. He points to his phone

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<v Speaker 1>and she remembers her phone is off. She turns it

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<v Speaker 1>on and it rings instantly. Jordan asks her how her

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<v Speaker 1>parasitology test went. She sighs, but says it went fine.

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<v Speaker 1>They have a quick conversation just touching base before their

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<v Speaker 1>dinner plans that night. Finish their phone call, and Jordan

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<v Speaker 1>starts heading to his Russian literature class, which starts at

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<v Speaker 1>twelve oh five. After class ends at twelve fifty five,

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<v Speaker 1>Jordan walks back to his moped and hops on. He

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<v Speaker 1>weaves through the campus and onto his street. He gets home,

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<v Speaker 1>parks his bike on the side of the house, and

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<v Speaker 1>walks to the front door like he always does. Then

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<v Speaker 1>he stops. The lock on the outside security door is busted.

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<v Speaker 1>It looks like somebody kicked it in. He can't remember

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<v Speaker 1>if it was always like this. He stares at it

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<v Speaker 1>for a moment, thinking, but dismisses it and starts to

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<v Speaker 1>go inside. He reaches to open the closed door and

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<v Speaker 1>notices it's unlocked. He thinks that's weird, but he also

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<v Speaker 1>knows their landlord was supposed to show the apartment that day,

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<v Speaker 1>so he assumes that's why. He walks in saide and

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<v Speaker 1>takes off his backpack, his jacket, and his shoes. Usually

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<v Speaker 1>their three cats would greet him at the door, but

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<v Speaker 1>today they were nowhere to be found. Jordan takes a

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<v Speaker 1>few steps towards the back of the small apartment and

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<v Speaker 1>freezes on the floor in the bedroom. Is Brittany. Just

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<v Speaker 1>for a second he thinks she's pranking him, But as

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<v Speaker 1>soon as he inches close, he sees blood. Jordan would

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<v Speaker 1>call nine one one at one eight pm nine one.

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<v Speaker 15>One with the adders of the emergency. Nine one with

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<v Speaker 15>the address of the emergency. Hello, nine one one with

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<v Speaker 15>the EDIR for the emergency.

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<v Speaker 1>His phone barely holds a connection. He manages to give

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<v Speaker 1>the address on West Doty Street before the call cuts out.

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<v Speaker 9>Class it's what you're cutting out? Can hear me?

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<v Speaker 15>Hello?

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<v Speaker 11>Hello?

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<v Speaker 15>Okay, your phone's cut now? Did you say upper or

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<v Speaker 15>lower flags?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes?

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<v Speaker 1>The dispatcher tries again. Their voices break in and out,

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<v Speaker 1>tangled and static?

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<v Speaker 12>Okay, ambulance and needed.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay. What is your name?

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<v Speaker 12>Jordan Garing?

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<v Speaker 15>Okay, come exactly what happened?

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<v Speaker 16>I just came home.

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<v Speaker 12>The door was bumped in and my girlfriend's been shot.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay, stand the phone with me. Okay, are you with

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<v Speaker 9>her right now? Yes?

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<v Speaker 12>I am?

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<v Speaker 9>How old is she she is?

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<v Speaker 12>Thanks?

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<v Speaker 9>Miss twenty one twenty one? Is she conscious? No, she's not.

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<v Speaker 9>Is she breathing?

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<v Speaker 17>No, she's not.

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<v Speaker 1>Up to this point in his life, the most serious

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<v Speaker 1>thing Jordan has faced was final exams. Now he's kneeling

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<v Speaker 1>beside the woman he planned to marry, trying to save

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<v Speaker 1>her life. The dispatcher checks to make sure the attacker

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<v Speaker 1>is no longer there. Oh, while relaying information to officers

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<v Speaker 1>already in round.

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<v Speaker 5>The color has no idea.

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<v Speaker 9>He just walked in and found his girlfriend like this.

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<v Speaker 5>Color has no idea who would have done it?

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<v Speaker 9>Is there any serious bleeding? Okay? There is serious bleeding? Yes, okay.

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<v Speaker 15>I'm sending an ambulance to help you. I want you

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<v Speaker 15>to stand the line that needs to incite what to

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<v Speaker 15>do next.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay, Okay, did you say she is or she is

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<v Speaker 9>not breathing?

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<v Speaker 12>She's not breathing.

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<v Speaker 9>She's not breathing. Okay, stand the pool. I can tell

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<v Speaker 9>you how to help her. Okay, you're right by her now,

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<v Speaker 9>all right. I want you to lay her flat on

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<v Speaker 9>her back on the ground. Yep.

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<v Speaker 15>Remove any collows.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay, okay.

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<v Speaker 15>I need you to kneel next to her and her

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<v Speaker 15>mom look in her mouth for any food or vomits.

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<v Speaker 9>Is there anything?

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<v Speaker 12>Is there anything in your blood?

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<v Speaker 9>Just blood?

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<v Speaker 1>Brittany isn't breathing. Her airway is filled with blood, and

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<v Speaker 1>she has no pulse. The dispatcher talks Jordan through CPR,

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<v Speaker 1>but she knows it might already be too late, and

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<v Speaker 1>when Jordan rolls Brittany on her back, he notices something

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<v Speaker 1>he cannot make sense of.

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<v Speaker 9>Did you think she did this herself?

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<v Speaker 12>No, she couldn't go.

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<v Speaker 15>She couldn't have done it herself. And there's no weapon.

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<v Speaker 12>Nearby, No no shot woo here.

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<v Speaker 9>You're inside with her, you're inside with her, Yes, I am.

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<v Speaker 9>It might be a stam mood.

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<v Speaker 12>Yes, I'm not sure. There's piercing, there's swall piercing.

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<v Speaker 1>The dispatcher stays with him, guiding him, reassuring him, while

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<v Speaker 1>also coordinating the incoming police units. She switches between comforting

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<v Speaker 1>Jordan and delivering updates to officers racing towards the scene.

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<v Speaker 5>The address is five to one seven West Doughty five

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<v Speaker 5>one seven West Doty Streets. It's apartment number one.

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<v Speaker 9>The lower flat.

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<v Speaker 5>The female is he and B and he's now saying

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<v Speaker 5>that it could he has a stabbing wound rather than

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<v Speaker 5>a gunsight.

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<v Speaker 1>Then she has to jump right back into the fray

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<v Speaker 1>with Jordan.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay, no idea? Who might have done this?

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<v Speaker 12>Jow right, I have no idea I have no idea.

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<v Speaker 15>Okay, with no idea.

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<v Speaker 9>Can you feel or hear any breathing?

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<v Speaker 16>H No, I can't.

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<v Speaker 12>I chucked for a pulse and I can't see anything.

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<v Speaker 15>Okay, okay, just so you know, there's there's an ambulance

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<v Speaker 15>on the way and the officers are on the way

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<v Speaker 15>as well.

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<v Speaker 9>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>She tells him help is coming, but in moments like this,

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00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:39.679
<v Speaker 1>seconds stretch into hours. Finally, officers arrive and usher Jordan

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<v Speaker 1>inside thirty.

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<v Speaker 12>Fourteen hours and are inside.

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<v Speaker 15>The building isn't clear.

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<v Speaker 1>And she sends The police reach the apartment at one

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<v Speaker 1>ten pm, less than two minutes after dispatch. They check

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<v Speaker 1>on Jordan, then clear the house room by room upstairs

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00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:04.879
<v Speaker 1>and danced, making sure the attacker is still inside. Only

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00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:08.840
<v Speaker 1>then do they move toward Brittany. It was too late

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00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>to help her. The officers informed dispatch that the victim

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<v Speaker 1>was deceased and the call became a homicide investigation. When

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<v Speaker 1>detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused. There was

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00:15:21.720 --> 00:15:25.759
<v Speaker 1>forced entry, but nothing was stolen. Brittany most likely was

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<v Speaker 1>working on her computer filing out federal grant forms when

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<v Speaker 1>someone interrupted her. Her desk was messy with tax documents

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<v Speaker 1>from the doorway of their bedroom. Detectives saw blood on

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<v Speaker 1>the bed and the floor. Further checking revealed her cell phone.

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<v Speaker 1>The battery was missing and it looked like someone had

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<v Speaker 1>deliberately damaged it. They found it hidden under other garbage

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<v Speaker 1>in the trash can. Who would want a twenty one

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<v Speaker 1>year old microbiology student dead?

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<v Speaker 15>And why?

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<v Speaker 1>It was a broad daylight murder with no clear motive,

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<v Speaker 1>and it would take twelve years for Madison police to

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<v Speaker 1>uncover the truth. The midday murder of their only daughter

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<v Speaker 1>had a devastating effect on the Zimmermans. They wouldn't see

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00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:50.600
<v Speaker 1>her graduate or get married. She would never have a career,

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00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:54.759
<v Speaker 1>a family, or a life. The date of her death

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00:16:54.759 --> 00:16:59.000
<v Speaker 1>would replace her birthday for her parents, and they would

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00:16:59.000 --> 00:17:04.079
<v Speaker 1>spend the next twelve telve years fighting for justice for Brittany.

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<v Speaker 1>Her fiance Jordan, found her lifeless body on their bedroom

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00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:11.119
<v Speaker 1>floor and called nine one one. The police made a

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00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.200
<v Speaker 1>mad dash to the crime scene. When it was determined

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00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:19.240
<v Speaker 1>that Brittany was deceased, the investigation started. The entire street

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00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:24.839
<v Speaker 1>from intersection to intersection was cordoned off. Officers secured the scene.

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00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.759
<v Speaker 1>They started to make contact with the neighbors and left

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<v Speaker 1>dash cams running to capture anyone walking in the area.

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00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Jordan had just seen her at eleven thirty. What could

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00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:39.079
<v Speaker 1>have happened in the last hour and a half. They

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00:17:39.119 --> 00:17:41.839
<v Speaker 1>hoped whoever killed her was still in the area, so

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00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.960
<v Speaker 1>they started canvassing quickly. Dispatch uncovered some investigation that might

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00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:50.559
<v Speaker 1>have been related.

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<v Speaker 9>Police inspire.

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00:17:52.920 --> 00:17:57.240
<v Speaker 16>I had been calling to report a suspicious incident that

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00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.799
<v Speaker 16>just happened at my house because I thought I should

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00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:01.960
<v Speaker 16>someone just in case something happened.

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00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:03.799
<v Speaker 9>What was the incident?

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00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:09.240
<v Speaker 16>Some guy walked into my house and was just opened

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00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:12.880
<v Speaker 16>our door and came in and was asking me for money,

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00:18:13.359 --> 00:18:15.519
<v Speaker 16>and he came up our stairs.

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00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:17.319
<v Speaker 9>Okay, and one how long ago?

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00:18:17.359 --> 00:18:21.759
<v Speaker 16>This is about maybe ten minutes top.

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00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:26.279
<v Speaker 1>The caller lived on West Washington Avenue, two blocks away

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00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:29.880
<v Speaker 1>and a straight shot down an alley from Britney's apartment

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00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:31.319
<v Speaker 1>at Dodie Street.

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00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:33.839
<v Speaker 9>Okay, and you don't know whose person was, No, I

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00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:34.279
<v Speaker 9>have no idea.

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00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:35.799
<v Speaker 16>He said that him and his wife had a flat

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00:18:35.839 --> 00:18:38.799
<v Speaker 16>tire on East Washington ab and that he needed forty

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00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.799
<v Speaker 16>dollars to buy a tire. Okay, did he walk into

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00:18:41.839 --> 00:18:44.599
<v Speaker 16>your apartment? Because he walked into our house and came

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00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:45.200
<v Speaker 16>up this Sperry.

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00:18:45.279 --> 00:18:49.039
<v Speaker 1>Okay, the possibility that this man with a flat tire

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00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.839
<v Speaker 1>could be involved couldn't be overlooked with no idea who

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00:18:52.960 --> 00:18:57.640
<v Speaker 1>killed Britney. Anyone was a possible suspect, especially a middle

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00:18:57.680 --> 00:19:00.400
<v Speaker 1>aged man going from door to door asking for money

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00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:01.599
<v Speaker 1>for unison.

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00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:04.839
<v Speaker 5>This channel, this is really just information for you. I

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00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:06.400
<v Speaker 5>don't know if it has anything to do with your

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00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:10.200
<v Speaker 5>call or not. Five to five West Washington Avenue, five

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00:19:10.279 --> 00:19:14.359
<v Speaker 5>to five Westwah or Collar there says that about ten

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00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:18.200
<v Speaker 5>minutes ago, a bleep stranger washed under her house without

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00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.039
<v Speaker 5>any permission, answer for money for a plant fire, white male, fifties,

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00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.559
<v Speaker 5>gray hair, gray t shirts, red sweatshirt tied around his waist.

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00:19:27.799 --> 00:19:31.039
<v Speaker 1>That call would give a new theory on who killed Brittany.

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00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.680
<v Speaker 1>While she was an extraordinary person, her life was otherwise

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00:19:35.759 --> 00:19:41.039
<v Speaker 1>rather unremarkable. Aside from her academic achievements, she didn't have

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00:19:41.160 --> 00:19:45.400
<v Speaker 1>enemies wanting revenge or jealous friends. She didn't know anyone

330
00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:50.440
<v Speaker 1>money and didn't have any to steal. She hadn't wronged

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00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:54.559
<v Speaker 1>anyone in any serious way. But considering the other nine

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00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.359
<v Speaker 1>to one one calls in the area, the idea that

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00:19:57.400 --> 00:20:00.240
<v Speaker 1>the murderer was committed by a stranger at rain them

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00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:05.920
<v Speaker 1>became very likely. Then there was another nine one one call.

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00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:11.039
<v Speaker 12>Nine one one was the interesting emergency, Sorry an emergency.

336
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:13.279
<v Speaker 12>I don't know if you can transfer me to a

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00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.839
<v Speaker 12>non emergency liner if I should.

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00:20:15.559 --> 00:20:17.640
<v Speaker 9>Tell you it's just fine. What's the problem.

339
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.079
<v Speaker 12>My neighbors directed me across the street. There are some

340
00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:23.279
<v Speaker 12>kind of old men I think, drinking from a bag,

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00:20:23.400 --> 00:20:26.160
<v Speaker 12>sitting on the porch and looking in the windows, and

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00:20:26.359 --> 00:20:29.920
<v Speaker 12>I was just worried that there may be a ventilia,

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00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:32.880
<v Speaker 12>burglary or something that among those lines.

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00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:36.440
<v Speaker 1>This caller was a college student like Brittany and Jordan.

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00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.000
<v Speaker 1>He was waiting for the bus to take him to

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00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.880
<v Speaker 1>school when he noticed some suspicious activity.

347
00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:44.160
<v Speaker 9>How many of how many people were there?

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00:20:45.079 --> 00:20:48.960
<v Speaker 12>Just two older men. I figure they're just taking a

349
00:20:48.640 --> 00:20:51.200
<v Speaker 12>break or something, but it was the word They were

350
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:53.559
<v Speaker 12>looking at the mailbox or something like that too.

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00:20:54.880 --> 00:20:57.519
<v Speaker 1>To be clear, this call was about two other men,

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00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:00.920
<v Speaker 1>not the man with the flat tire begging for money.

353
00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 1>These two men were sharing a drink from a paper

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00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.720
<v Speaker 1>bag while looking through windows and rifling through mailboxes. It

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00:21:08.839 --> 00:21:12.480
<v Speaker 1>was certainly suspicious, and with the early theory that a

356
00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.359
<v Speaker 1>stranger murdered Brittany. It was even more so. But to

357
00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:20.880
<v Speaker 1>understand the obstacles in the investigation into Brittany's death, you

358
00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.440
<v Speaker 1>have to know about the neighborhood she lived in. She

359
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:28.000
<v Speaker 1>lived on West Dote Street, just off South Bassett Street,

360
00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:33.720
<v Speaker 1>in the Bassett neighborhood. Is it Bassett or Bassett? I

361
00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:37.039
<v Speaker 1>guess it's the same difference between Boudet and Buddett. Who

362
00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:40.920
<v Speaker 1>gives a shit? This area was sometimes called the student

363
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:44.559
<v Speaker 1>Triangle because of the proximity to the university campus only

364
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.799
<v Speaker 1>six blocks away. The neighborhood was a mix of students

365
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.480
<v Speaker 1>and apartments, families and small houses, and a few long term,

366
00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:59.759
<v Speaker 1>low income tenants oh in transient foot traffic. The downtown

367
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:04.440
<v Speaker 1>air had homeless shelters, dropping shelters, and a bus depot

368
00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.319
<v Speaker 1>with a mix of college students and transients. The area

369
00:22:08.359 --> 00:22:11.759
<v Speaker 1>had a high call volume, so the police were there

370
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:16.000
<v Speaker 1>often at the same time. There were roughly fourteen hundred

371
00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 1>service calls a year, and one third of those were

372
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.160
<v Speaker 1>for panhandling and other loitering complaints. So when all the

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00:22:24.200 --> 00:22:26.640
<v Speaker 1>evidence at the scene of the crime pointed to a

374
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:30.480
<v Speaker 1>random person murdering Brittany, the police knew they had a

375
00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:35.000
<v Speaker 1>difficult investigation on their hands, but the man with the

376
00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:39.240
<v Speaker 1>flats hire entering people's homes and invited was their first

377
00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.319
<v Speaker 1>possible lead.

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00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:41.680
<v Speaker 12>What were the.

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00:22:41.680 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 18>Time frames of when we called and when we had

380
00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:46.599
<v Speaker 18>done then called the by one Fellar.

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00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:50.799
<v Speaker 5>It was about a five minute last between nicolls, so

382
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:54.720
<v Speaker 5>it checks be about fifteen al together, about fifteen altogether.

383
00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.400
<v Speaker 18>Yeah, that description for second detailers. I want you at

384
00:22:58.480 --> 00:22:59.920
<v Speaker 18>check in the area. I want to accompany you to

385
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:02.599
<v Speaker 18>it on the day's tree to check around that area

386
00:23:02.759 --> 00:23:05.880
<v Speaker 18>and manage it in a three, four or five block area.

387
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.119
<v Speaker 18>Circle the area looking for that party. Once he's done

388
00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:11.720
<v Speaker 18>doing that, and that I need Holth to respond down

389
00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:13.039
<v Speaker 18>to Masters.

390
00:23:12.839 --> 00:23:18.920
<v Speaker 1>And Dy's creations and police work coincidences are rare, so

391
00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:21.519
<v Speaker 1>the idea of a man walking into someone's home within

392
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 1>fifteen minutes of a home invasion and murder set off

393
00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:29.359
<v Speaker 1>alarm belts. The police would quickly locate the man with

394
00:23:29.400 --> 00:23:32.599
<v Speaker 1>the flat tire. He was known to the department as

395
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:38.599
<v Speaker 1>an active panhandler. David Call would walk around the neighborhood

396
00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:42.480
<v Speaker 1>asking people for money at random, with some made up

397
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:47.440
<v Speaker 1>story to illicit sympathy. Turns out this homeless guy had

398
00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:53.559
<v Speaker 1>exhausted his entire friends and family list for help. They

399
00:23:53.599 --> 00:23:57.279
<v Speaker 1>had all had enough of them and said no thanks,

400
00:23:57.319 --> 00:24:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and now society was left to deal with them. By

401
00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:05.000
<v Speaker 1>the time they had an official interview, he was already

402
00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:07.960
<v Speaker 1>in jail on a probation violation.

403
00:24:09.200 --> 00:24:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Fifth on WI failure to register because I was homeless

404
00:24:12.680 --> 00:24:16.000
<v Speaker 2>at the time, address and borrow money or.

405
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.200
<v Speaker 3>Falls free Johnsons.

406
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.359
<v Speaker 19>Okay, all right, and that was good to have to

407
00:24:19.400 --> 00:24:20.640
<v Speaker 19>do with the houses downtown.

408
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:21.480
<v Speaker 3>That's kind of thing.

409
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:23.759
<v Speaker 9>No, that was.

410
00:24:26.400 --> 00:24:29.559
<v Speaker 3>That was borrowed money from businesses and stuff. Okay, that's

411
00:24:29.680 --> 00:24:32.400
<v Speaker 3>him the same thing paying him. Oh okay, all right,

412
00:24:32.920 --> 00:24:33.359
<v Speaker 3>all right.

413
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Cal had a lengthy criminal record, stretching over sixteen years.

414
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.279
<v Speaker 1>At this point, he had a couple of counts of

415
00:24:41.400 --> 00:24:45.920
<v Speaker 1>manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance in ninety two. In

416
00:24:46.039 --> 00:24:48.839
<v Speaker 1>ninety three, he was charged with theft and second degree

417
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:52.519
<v Speaker 1>sexual assault. In two thousand and two, he was charged

418
00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.039
<v Speaker 1>with possession of THHC. In two thousand and six, he

419
00:24:56.119 --> 00:24:58.880
<v Speaker 1>was charged with failure to register as a sex offender.

420
00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>Are you aust yet because it's getting old anyway. A

421
00:25:04.240 --> 00:25:06.880
<v Speaker 1>few days after that, he was charged with his fifth

422
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:13.160
<v Speaker 1>ow I or operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. That

423
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:17.440
<v Speaker 1>kills people, you know. But after learning about his history

424
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and talking to his parole officer, they didn't see him

425
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.680
<v Speaker 1>as a suspect. They saw him as a source for

426
00:25:25.720 --> 00:25:26.240
<v Speaker 1>some reason.

427
00:25:27.240 --> 00:25:29.359
<v Speaker 19>Second, Wisa and I are investigated in a number of

428
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:32.400
<v Speaker 19>different things, okay, and we're not We're not here to

429
00:25:32.599 --> 00:25:35.559
<v Speaker 19>jamming up any further than the thing which you already are.

430
00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:36.039
<v Speaker 15>Okay.

431
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.720
<v Speaker 3>That's not our that's not our purpose in any life.

432
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.519
<v Speaker 3>And with this interview, okay, I already know you know,

433
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.279
<v Speaker 3>I know about all the downtown stuff, you know, going

434
00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:46.359
<v Speaker 3>to the houses.

435
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:50.319
<v Speaker 19>And that kind of thing, as well as like I said,

436
00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:52.880
<v Speaker 19>I talk to your pels morning says you've always been decent,

437
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:54.559
<v Speaker 19>you know, with him, and that he didn't expect and

438
00:25:54.680 --> 00:25:56.680
<v Speaker 19>he would have any difficulties talking to you today.

439
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:59.119
<v Speaker 3>And I don't have any reason to believe you know

440
00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:01.200
<v Speaker 3>that you're involved than anything. Right now, I think that

441
00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:03.480
<v Speaker 3>maybe you might be a witness to some things that

442
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:04.359
<v Speaker 3>you can help us out with.

443
00:26:05.680 --> 00:26:08.400
<v Speaker 1>David Call shifted in a seat with a blank expression.

444
00:26:09.240 --> 00:26:13.279
<v Speaker 1>He was forty two, but his white stubble beard and

445
00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.200
<v Speaker 1>quickly graying hair made him look older than he was.

446
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:21.039
<v Speaker 1>His receding hairline didn't help matters either. He was of

447
00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:24.519
<v Speaker 1>average height, but a little on the thin side. He

448
00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:27.519
<v Speaker 1>grew up on his parents dairy farm and considered himself

449
00:26:27.559 --> 00:26:31.920
<v Speaker 1>a farmer, but he never graduated high school, and since

450
00:26:32.000 --> 00:26:35.279
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety two, when he was twenty six, he'd been

451
00:26:35.319 --> 00:26:38.079
<v Speaker 1>in trouble with the law and spent several stints in prison.

452
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:41.319
<v Speaker 1>It didn't sound like he was much of a farmer,

453
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:45.559
<v Speaker 1>but he was a perfect informant.

454
00:26:46.480 --> 00:26:48.119
<v Speaker 19>What I'd like to do, if it's okay with you,

455
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:50.079
<v Speaker 19>just use some photographs and you tell me if you

456
00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:53.119
<v Speaker 19>know these people and how you know them. About that, okay,

457
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:57.119
<v Speaker 19>we're talking about we're talking about the people that were

458
00:26:57.160 --> 00:26:59.359
<v Speaker 19>doing you know, we're all in the street like you were,

459
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.720
<v Speaker 19>you know, maybe with some scams, maybe going into houses

460
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:03.559
<v Speaker 19>and things like that.

461
00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:07.359
<v Speaker 1>Over the course of time, he looked at each picture

462
00:27:07.480 --> 00:27:10.799
<v Speaker 1>the officers showed him. They were all people who frequented

463
00:27:10.880 --> 00:27:15.359
<v Speaker 1>the area around Brittany's home. Some he recognized but didn't

464
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:19.359
<v Speaker 1>know or couldn't place. Most he didn't know at all.

465
00:27:20.440 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 3>Next quarographing number nine zero zero.

466
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:29.359
<v Speaker 19>Nine six again, nine zero zero six ninety six.

467
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:36.799
<v Speaker 3>That's don I know I heard, Yeah, where did you where?

468
00:27:36.880 --> 00:27:37.000
<v Speaker 12>You know?

469
00:27:37.119 --> 00:27:40.279
<v Speaker 3>Don from All was walking around the other day, right

470
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:46.240
<v Speaker 3>when when the police contacted you, or before before the

471
00:27:46.319 --> 00:27:49.400
<v Speaker 3>police attacked you. Okay, where he probably from? Mike eleven?

472
00:27:49.839 --> 00:27:51.359
<v Speaker 3>Tell about three o'clock I was.

473
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.880
<v Speaker 1>Finally he recognized some He said that the day Brittany

474
00:27:58.000 --> 00:28:01.759
<v Speaker 1>was murdered, he was with a woman named Down. Together,

475
00:28:01.839 --> 00:28:04.279
<v Speaker 1>they teamed up and started going door to door asking

476
00:28:04.359 --> 00:28:07.640
<v Speaker 1>for money. The police had already talked to Don, but

477
00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:12.759
<v Speaker 1>she couldn't or wouldn't cooperate, which was fine because police

478
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:14.839
<v Speaker 1>were more interested in the other two men they crossed

479
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:16.799
<v Speaker 1>paths with that day.

480
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:20.039
<v Speaker 3>Can you describe me a couple of guys that were

481
00:28:20.079 --> 00:28:25.599
<v Speaker 3>with her? Those were supposedly Mitchell or Michael and then Hank.

482
00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.599
<v Speaker 19>So Mitchell or Michael and Hank, and those are the

483
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:34.440
<v Speaker 19>guys that gave him the scription. Okay, Yeah, can you

484
00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:37.160
<v Speaker 19>just in one more time for us? Can you describe

485
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:38.319
<v Speaker 19>Mitchell or Michael for us?

486
00:28:40.000 --> 00:28:43.559
<v Speaker 2>Mitchell has long gone hair, ponytail is tied back, He's

487
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:44.240
<v Speaker 2>got a scot.

488
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.599
<v Speaker 3>On her right cheek, and Kurt Douglass dimple right here.

489
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.759
<v Speaker 19>Okay, And so then can you describe Hank to us?

490
00:28:52.920 --> 00:28:58.720
<v Speaker 19>Hank is black Okay, short, real short.

491
00:28:58.559 --> 00:29:01.319
<v Speaker 2>Curly hairs either. Guy, Like, it's not even like an

492
00:29:01.359 --> 00:29:05.279
<v Speaker 2>afrom me. It's you know, short and curly, but it's

493
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:06.480
<v Speaker 2>like spaces in between it.

494
00:29:06.799 --> 00:29:12.400
<v Speaker 3>Okay. I think it's all Finnan or brilliant. Okay.

495
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.960
<v Speaker 1>The reason they were so interested in these two men

496
00:29:16.279 --> 00:29:19.119
<v Speaker 1>was that while calls m O was to ask for

497
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:23.279
<v Speaker 1>money for a flat tire, they had other methods.

498
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.200
<v Speaker 3>Those guys, I'm for open windows, climbing too, and stuff

499
00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:29.440
<v Speaker 3>like that. It's like in an alley they're walking between

500
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:32.359
<v Speaker 3>two houses of their windows open and behind them as

501
00:29:32.359 --> 00:29:36.200
<v Speaker 3>they're kind of scam okay, so just looking for open windows, open.

502
00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:38.160
<v Speaker 2>Windows, knocking on doors and I don't know what there

503
00:29:38.240 --> 00:29:40.720
<v Speaker 2>Also was mine was, like I say, for a flat tire.

504
00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:44.519
<v Speaker 2>But I remember earlier that day, me and Don walked on.

505
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:46.400
<v Speaker 3>You know, it was door here the street over there

506
00:29:46.519 --> 00:29:47.000
<v Speaker 3>was like two.

507
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Different girls down there, and I remember her telling them

508
00:29:50.079 --> 00:29:52.359
<v Speaker 2>guys because I got my forty.

509
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:55.000
<v Speaker 3>Dollars either girl, but the girl had a lot of money.

510
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.400
<v Speaker 3>And I remember she's telling them, guys such and such

511
00:29:58.599 --> 00:29:59.279
<v Speaker 3>dress down there.

512
00:29:59.359 --> 00:29:59.799
<v Speaker 9>They got more.

513
00:30:01.319 --> 00:30:04.319
<v Speaker 1>Remember, Carl said. The other two men were in the

514
00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>habit of burgling people. They would knock on the door

515
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:13.160
<v Speaker 1>and if no one answered, look for open windows. Once inside,

516
00:30:13.200 --> 00:30:18.839
<v Speaker 1>they would steal everything worth money, laptops, cameras, cash, anything.

517
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:22.160
<v Speaker 1>The police started to wonder if these two men entered

518
00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:26.599
<v Speaker 1>Brittany's home without realizing she was inside, and then the

519
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:27.519
<v Speaker 1>worst happened.

520
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:30.640
<v Speaker 2>Don told him on the guys and right away, let's

521
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.119
<v Speaker 2>go back and rob I ain't in and rob nobody

522
00:30:33.200 --> 00:30:36.279
<v Speaker 2>else and scamming. I mean, they wanted to go back

523
00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.599
<v Speaker 2>to rob somebo. I was like, I ain't in that

524
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.720
<v Speaker 2>ship there. You Don's like, man, she had like two

525
00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>three hundred dollars more.

526
00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:45.920
<v Speaker 3>You know, let mean, let's try to do this.

527
00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.079
<v Speaker 2>But I know when I left, the dumb guys you're

528
00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 2>gonna go back down and see if they can get

529
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:53.359
<v Speaker 2>some money. Okay, well that's when I knew I better

530
00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:55.319
<v Speaker 2>hear it because they were being stupid to go back

531
00:30:55.359 --> 00:30:55.759
<v Speaker 2>in the same.

532
00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:01.000
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, he was incredibly forthcoming, sharing everything he did and

533
00:31:01.200 --> 00:31:04.759
<v Speaker 1>everywhere he went that day. He even openly admitted to

534
00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:06.480
<v Speaker 1>any petty crimes he committed.

535
00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:11.160
<v Speaker 3>Now I'm being charged to this, No, not not the

536
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:12.839
<v Speaker 3>things that we're talking about here today.

537
00:31:12.880 --> 00:31:15.000
<v Speaker 19>Okay, what I'm trying to do is place you in

538
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.880
<v Speaker 19>particular locations at particular times and trying to help your

539
00:31:18.920 --> 00:31:21.720
<v Speaker 19>memory so that we can try to find out who

540
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:26.400
<v Speaker 19>was in certain areas in that downtown area at different times. Okay, No,

541
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:28.640
<v Speaker 19>I'm not like I said, I didn't come here to data,

542
00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:29.119
<v Speaker 19>you know.

543
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:30.200
<v Speaker 3>To hanging out with that.

544
00:31:31.319 --> 00:31:33.680
<v Speaker 19>And certainly you've never done anything in a violent way

545
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:36.640
<v Speaker 19>and said to these people, there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

546
00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:39.119
<v Speaker 19>And that's what that's sort of why we're here talking

547
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.319
<v Speaker 19>to you today, because we know that violence is not

548
00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:44.720
<v Speaker 19>your Violence isn't your way to go ahead and get money.

549
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:46.720
<v Speaker 19>You're being successful enough on your own.

550
00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:53.720
<v Speaker 1>Carl had an easy going demeanor with detectives. He was

551
00:31:53.960 --> 00:31:57.559
<v Speaker 1>extremely polite, and even all the people he panhandled from

552
00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:01.680
<v Speaker 1>described them as such. He reviewed all the pictures the

553
00:32:01.799 --> 00:32:05.920
<v Speaker 1>police provided and helped create a timeline of his movements

554
00:32:06.039 --> 00:32:08.880
<v Speaker 1>that day to determine where other transients were.

555
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:12.119
<v Speaker 19>And when you know you've been honest, honest with us

556
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 19>here today, I mean you're certainly not you're certainly.

557
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Not not a suspect in any of those cases.

558
00:32:17.799 --> 00:32:21.200
<v Speaker 19>Well, we'll we'll try to drum up Mitchell and Hank

559
00:32:21.400 --> 00:32:24.279
<v Speaker 19>and if you hear anything in here when you get

560
00:32:24.319 --> 00:32:27.240
<v Speaker 19>back into population, about other people that might know them

561
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 19>or whatever, and you could give us give us a

562
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:29.640
<v Speaker 19>sip on that.

563
00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:34.039
<v Speaker 1>The interview ended with Call providing a buckle swap for

564
00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:39.119
<v Speaker 1>DNA testing. The detectives left with a new direction, finding

565
00:32:39.279 --> 00:32:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Mitchell or Mark the man with the ponytail, and the

566
00:32:43.799 --> 00:32:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Kurt Douglas dimple and Hank the black guy with thinning hair.

567
00:32:49.400 --> 00:32:53.319
<v Speaker 1>They would search for months with no luck. If these

568
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:58.440
<v Speaker 1>guys were responsible, they were lying low. April faded and

569
00:32:58.599 --> 00:33:03.039
<v Speaker 1>May turned into June before detectives realized it was July.

570
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:08.480
<v Speaker 1>In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother

571
00:33:08.839 --> 00:33:11.440
<v Speaker 1>even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii

572
00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:16.240
<v Speaker 1>to help fund a reward. During that time, a crime

573
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:20.680
<v Speaker 1>lab was processing DNA from the scene. Now, this is

574
00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:23.640
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight, when DNA testing wasn't as advanced

575
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:27.240
<v Speaker 1>as it is today. The samples taken from Brittany's crime

576
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:31.400
<v Speaker 1>scene were mixed, meaning they included two or more DNA profiles.

577
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:36.039
<v Speaker 1>Even so, they quickly found a match. The bad news

578
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:39.079
<v Speaker 1>was that it matched a DNA profile from an unsolved

579
00:33:39.119 --> 00:33:42.880
<v Speaker 1>burglary at the Blue Moon Bar and Grill back in June.

580
00:33:44.039 --> 00:33:47.200
<v Speaker 1>A link to another unsolved crime didn't help, and it

581
00:33:47.319 --> 00:33:49.920
<v Speaker 1>only made the theory of a transient stranger committing the

582
00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:55.319
<v Speaker 1>murder even stronger. So they went back to talk to

583
00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:56.799
<v Speaker 1>Call again.

584
00:33:57.519 --> 00:34:00.039
<v Speaker 20>Nothing has changed to I can't be I can't be

585
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:03.759
<v Speaker 20>more explicit with you, Okay, We're we are not considering

586
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:06.079
<v Speaker 20>any other charges against you, no matter what you'd tell me,

587
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:08.000
<v Speaker 20>tell me and Sam today in this interview.

588
00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:10.679
<v Speaker 3>Regarding the personal stuff about what you were doing, you

589
00:34:10.719 --> 00:34:14.480
<v Speaker 3>don't care about that, okay. Our focus is who killed Britney.

590
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.199
<v Speaker 9>I thought she caught again that was on that Marina one.

591
00:34:19.360 --> 00:34:22.639
<v Speaker 9>The guy that was I'm sure that got killed.

592
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:25.480
<v Speaker 2>Like in January, we did catch somebody was saying something

593
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 2>on the news or something already caught.

594
00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:29.719
<v Speaker 9>The guy or something that guy this is the girl

595
00:34:30.159 --> 00:34:32.039
<v Speaker 9>and I thought they had DNA.

596
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:35.360
<v Speaker 3>Too, or something on a knife or something that was

597
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:37.679
<v Speaker 3>from the marine O case. The guy they got killed

598
00:34:37.719 --> 00:34:39.400
<v Speaker 3>back in January, a couple of months before the.

599
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>One we're working out, okay, because they said they also

600
00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:44.960
<v Speaker 2>fall on DNA or whatever and supposedly arrested somebody.

601
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:46.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there was curt in the cases.

602
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:51.360
<v Speaker 1>Carl seemed even more eager to talk with detectives than

603
00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.639
<v Speaker 1>last time. He casually talked about the case, even cracking jokes.

604
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.840
<v Speaker 1>He'd been in jail for a few months by now.

605
00:34:59.800 --> 00:35:01.400
<v Speaker 1>He we had plenty of time to think about that

606
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:03.239
<v Speaker 1>day to remember.

607
00:35:03.960 --> 00:35:04.920
<v Speaker 3>You were the bid contains.

608
00:35:04.920 --> 00:35:07.360
<v Speaker 20>Do you remember, with help me telling you, Marty, do

609
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:09.719
<v Speaker 20>you remember seeing the house that when you lived in?

610
00:35:10.119 --> 00:35:13.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, on TV at some point earlier that day or

611
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:14.800
<v Speaker 3>any of the time that he knocked at that door.

612
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 20>I have no idea, Okay, no recolection because I was

613
00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:21.920
<v Speaker 20>bouncing from the street to street, house to house. Do

614
00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.440
<v Speaker 20>you remember how many houses on her street that day

615
00:35:24.559 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 20>day you might have made contact, probably almost all of

616
00:35:27.400 --> 00:35:30.199
<v Speaker 20>them out of all of them, do you have any

617
00:35:30.239 --> 00:35:33.159
<v Speaker 20>recollection how many you might have had people hold that

618
00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:34.840
<v Speaker 20>came to the door when you knocked or ran.

619
00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:37.079
<v Speaker 3>There wasn't a whole lot of people home.

620
00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:42.239
<v Speaker 1>The conversation turned to Hank and the other guy. Detectives

621
00:35:42.360 --> 00:35:44.119
<v Speaker 1>brought in a new set of photos to see if

622
00:35:44.199 --> 00:35:49.159
<v Speaker 1>Carl recognized any of them. He didn't. Then the conversation

623
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:50.119
<v Speaker 1>turned to Dawn.

624
00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:52.320
<v Speaker 3>Is she an't help at all?

625
00:35:54.559 --> 00:35:56.800
<v Speaker 9>I mean, it's dizzy, I know that, but I mean,

626
00:35:56.920 --> 00:35:58.840
<v Speaker 9>what can we use it against her to get her

627
00:35:58.880 --> 00:35:59.639
<v Speaker 9>to be more corporate.

628
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.360
<v Speaker 3>If she wasn't, I don't know anything that you have

629
00:36:04.480 --> 00:36:09.760
<v Speaker 3>to have something charges or something on the car. There's

630
00:36:09.800 --> 00:36:11.559
<v Speaker 3>no chance that hank him into learn that book.

631
00:36:11.719 --> 00:36:18.079
<v Speaker 2>No, No, I know their faces yet. Sure I tell

632
00:36:18.119 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 2>you because I'd rather have you talk to him. That

633
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:25.119
<v Speaker 2>they did do so much that, Like I say, they

634
00:36:25.159 --> 00:36:27.679
<v Speaker 2>did mention about Robin a few people at night.

635
00:36:27.679 --> 00:36:33.599
<v Speaker 1>Point strangely engaged Paul was asking more questions than the detectives.

636
00:36:34.559 --> 00:36:35.440
<v Speaker 9>Was she raped at all?

637
00:36:36.760 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 3>I can't tell you that I want to. I just

638
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:45.719
<v Speaker 3>wondered any instincts on that, and I just was wondering

639
00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:48.559
<v Speaker 3>if she was raped or not. Just something we can't

640
00:36:48.559 --> 00:36:52.079
<v Speaker 3>think about. But you understand, we keep a lot, try

641
00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:53.559
<v Speaker 3>to keep a lot of information.

642
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:56.280
<v Speaker 2>Because I figured that's another reason why they picked me

643
00:36:56.400 --> 00:36:58.079
<v Speaker 2>up too, because I had a sexual assault.

644
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:01.480
<v Speaker 3>Do you guys have anything at all?

645
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:03.880
<v Speaker 20>I mean, yeah, we've got.

646
00:37:03.800 --> 00:37:07.239
<v Speaker 3>A bunch of stuff working and every day new stuff

647
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:07.559
<v Speaker 3>comes in.

648
00:37:07.719 --> 00:37:08.599
<v Speaker 21>But still.

649
00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:10.960
<v Speaker 3>Do you think it was Hank?

650
00:37:11.639 --> 00:37:14.840
<v Speaker 9>And until we can find them and talk to them,

651
00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:16.079
<v Speaker 9>you can't eliminatum.

652
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:18.000
<v Speaker 3>So that's what we need to find out where they are.

653
00:37:18.079 --> 00:37:21.880
<v Speaker 2>If you can the almost people on the sketches identified

654
00:37:21.920 --> 00:37:25.480
<v Speaker 2>them and so that they've seen them, because I mean,

655
00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:27.920
<v Speaker 2>if I coummated a murder, I sure get out of Madison,

656
00:37:27.960 --> 00:37:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Madison small. I mean I wouldn't want to stick around

657
00:37:31.639 --> 00:37:36.440
<v Speaker 2>to Madison. Yeah, I mean I'd take off. I mean,

658
00:37:36.480 --> 00:37:37.960
<v Speaker 2>if I would have killed her, I would have been gone.

659
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.559
<v Speaker 2>You guys have never found me, right, I ever went

660
00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:41.400
<v Speaker 2>back to my barment.

661
00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:42.639
<v Speaker 3>I mean that's glad to right.

662
00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

663
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.039
<v Speaker 1>While the police continued their search for the two mystery men,

664
00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:51.519
<v Speaker 1>the public wanted answers. They needed to know that they

665
00:37:51.559 --> 00:37:55.039
<v Speaker 1>were safe in their own homes. That's when the public

666
00:37:55.119 --> 00:37:59.840
<v Speaker 1>backlash started. The news media started requesting public records, but

667
00:38:00.440 --> 00:38:05.280
<v Speaker 1>when the requests were fulfilled, some records were withheld, others delayed,

668
00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:10.199
<v Speaker 1>and most were redacted. The news media smelled something fishy

669
00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:14.639
<v Speaker 1>and pushed back, requesting more and more records. They requested

670
00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:18.320
<v Speaker 1>nine to one one call logs, dispatch records, audio recordings,

671
00:38:18.440 --> 00:38:22.480
<v Speaker 1>dispatcher notes, and even internal reviews or audits related to

672
00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:26.119
<v Speaker 1>the nine to one one call center. When that too, failed,

673
00:38:27.079 --> 00:38:28.000
<v Speaker 1>they filed suit.

674
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:34.639
<v Speaker 22>There were substantial revelations that brought into the public domain

675
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:36.480
<v Speaker 22>as a result of this lawsuit.

676
00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:41.239
<v Speaker 1>The public was in fear and suddenly realized the police

677
00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:45.519
<v Speaker 1>were withholding things from them. What revelations were made public,

678
00:38:45.599 --> 00:38:50.079
<v Speaker 1>you might be asking, well settling. The lawsuit forced the

679
00:38:50.119 --> 00:38:52.760
<v Speaker 1>city to release another nine one one.

680
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:58.440
<v Speaker 22>Call, including the fact that the tape did contain sounds

681
00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:00.239
<v Speaker 22>of a struggle and screen.

682
00:39:01.440 --> 00:39:04.360
<v Speaker 1>The nine when one call had been marked as incomplete

683
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.800
<v Speaker 1>or misdialed. In other words, the operator didn't hear anyone

684
00:39:08.880 --> 00:39:11.840
<v Speaker 1>on the line, but the call in question came from

685
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.920
<v Speaker 1>Brittany's home one.

686
00:39:14.199 --> 00:39:15.679
<v Speaker 9>What's the address to the emergency?

687
00:39:18.519 --> 00:39:18.719
<v Speaker 23>Hello?

688
00:39:18.960 --> 00:39:19.559
<v Speaker 9>Nine one one.

689
00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:24.440
<v Speaker 1>The police were aware of this very early on, but

690
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:27.719
<v Speaker 1>didn't inform the public. They said the state of the

691
00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:30.760
<v Speaker 1>phone systems at the E nine to one one center

692
00:39:30.840 --> 00:39:33.880
<v Speaker 1>made it so that the operator did not hear the screen.

693
00:39:34.920 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 1>It was only after they pulled the recording that they

694
00:39:37.280 --> 00:40:02.039
<v Speaker 1>noticed in the recording it was clearly a woman screaming.

695
00:40:03.119 --> 00:40:06.440
<v Speaker 1>Then they heard what sounded like someone saying stop, along

696
00:40:06.480 --> 00:40:09.599
<v Speaker 1>with the sounds of what could only be an assault.

697
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:16.039
<v Speaker 1>Then the line disconnected per protocol. The operator called the

698
00:40:16.159 --> 00:40:17.079
<v Speaker 1>number back.

699
00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:24.719
<v Speaker 9>Hello, hiding coming in one one calling your phone? Called up?

700
00:40:28.119 --> 00:40:29.360
<v Speaker 9>Were you just using the phone?

701
00:40:30.360 --> 00:40:30.559
<v Speaker 12>Yeah?

702
00:40:31.320 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 15>Okayne?

703
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:38.360
<v Speaker 12>Oh we might have read that's a red button.

704
00:40:40.480 --> 00:40:43.440
<v Speaker 15>Yeah yeah, okay, all right, we just.

705
00:40:43.519 --> 00:40:44.079
<v Speaker 9>Had to check in.

706
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:46.440
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, okay, thanks.

707
00:40:48.920 --> 00:40:54.360
<v Speaker 1>But this forced transparency caused outrage. Not only were two

708
00:40:54.519 --> 00:40:56.960
<v Speaker 1>men on the recording, but Brittany called nine one one

709
00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:02.760
<v Speaker 1>nearly an hour before her fiancee, Jordan Founder. This revelation

710
00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:06.360
<v Speaker 1>would lead to the Zimmermans filing a wrongful death lawsuit

711
00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:10.159
<v Speaker 1>against the city in two thousand and nine. They would

712
00:41:10.199 --> 00:41:12.280
<v Speaker 1>settle the suit the following year and put all the

713
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:16.719
<v Speaker 1>money towards a scholarship fund in Brittany's name. They said

714
00:41:16.719 --> 00:41:19.320
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't about the money, it was about not letting

715
00:41:19.400 --> 00:41:22.559
<v Speaker 1>this happen to any one else. The E nine one

716
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:26.840
<v Speaker 1>one Center would undergo many equipment upgrades and dispatcher training,

717
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:31.360
<v Speaker 1>a lot of covering your ass after the damage is done.

718
00:41:32.760 --> 00:41:36.280
<v Speaker 1>But while the police were dodging the public outrage, they

719
00:41:36.320 --> 00:41:39.079
<v Speaker 1>received an anonymous letter in late two thousand and nine.

720
00:41:40.159 --> 00:41:45.039
<v Speaker 1>The letter was from the Fox Lake Correctional Facility. It

721
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.800
<v Speaker 1>claimed an inmate with the initials of f R and

722
00:41:47.920 --> 00:41:53.119
<v Speaker 1>his friends killed Brittany. The detectives investigated this anonymous tip,

723
00:41:53.239 --> 00:41:57.159
<v Speaker 1>but nothing came out of it. Around this time, the

724
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:01.159
<v Speaker 1>case also lost its first lead detective who transferred out

725
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:05.199
<v Speaker 1>of the department. With his departure, the next detective would

726
00:42:05.199 --> 00:42:10.199
<v Speaker 1>have to start all over again. The new detective revisited

727
00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 1>all the evidence, including the DNA. They resubmitted the samples,

728
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:19.480
<v Speaker 1>and they reprocessed them. By twenty eleven, the mixed samples

729
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:23.880
<v Speaker 1>were degraded, but the technology had improved. When they got

730
00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:27.719
<v Speaker 1>the results back, they knew they needed to speak with

731
00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.000
<v Speaker 1>David call yet again.

732
00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:32.199
<v Speaker 9>You were going door to door.

733
00:42:32.199 --> 00:42:35.239
<v Speaker 24>In Brittany's neighborhood that day, right, yeah, okay, me and

734
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:36.599
<v Speaker 24>Don and then other guys.

735
00:42:37.360 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 3>Other guys meaning these two guys were talking about. Okay,

736
00:42:41.559 --> 00:42:44.159
<v Speaker 3>the something that is I mentioned you some evidence that

737
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:44.719
<v Speaker 3>came up.

738
00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:47.400
<v Speaker 20>As you can.

739
00:42:47.320 --> 00:42:50.679
<v Speaker 3>Imagine the house we had the crimeline process, everything.

740
00:42:52.000 --> 00:43:00.679
<v Speaker 20>DNA was developed, some things that Brittany had at the

741
00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:01.599
<v Speaker 20>time she was killed.

742
00:43:02.719 --> 00:43:07.480
<v Speaker 3>And that's the main reason detect Lukin I.

743
00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:08.920
<v Speaker 15>Wanted to sit on and talk to you today.

744
00:43:09.440 --> 00:43:11.079
<v Speaker 2>That DNA is consistent with.

745
00:43:11.199 --> 00:43:12.000
<v Speaker 9>Your DNA.

746
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.679
<v Speaker 3>And that was just developed recently. Can you explain why

747
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:22.800
<v Speaker 3>your DNA would be on in our house even id no.

748
00:43:23.000 --> 00:43:25.119
<v Speaker 2>Idea unless it was one of the houses that we

749
00:43:25.239 --> 00:43:26.639
<v Speaker 2>were breaking into that day.

750
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:31.039
<v Speaker 20>How many houses did you break into well, I mean.

751
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:33.000
<v Speaker 2>Them guys like I see we go in there, we

752
00:43:33.159 --> 00:43:38.199
<v Speaker 2>break in, you know, I'll go through stuff, ving jury laptops.

753
00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:39.079
<v Speaker 16>Okay.

754
00:43:40.440 --> 00:43:44.039
<v Speaker 1>While Call's story had been consistent for years, this time

755
00:43:44.119 --> 00:43:47.639
<v Speaker 1>he revealed more. He had been with two other men

756
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:52.280
<v Speaker 1>helping him burgle homes for items to sell. He offered

757
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:55.119
<v Speaker 1>this up as a possible explanation to how his DNA

758
00:43:55.239 --> 00:43:57.320
<v Speaker 1>could have even ended up at Brittany's house.

759
00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:59.079
<v Speaker 16>The DNA that we have.

760
00:44:00.039 --> 00:44:02.320
<v Speaker 20>Could not have gotten there by you being in simply

761
00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:03.079
<v Speaker 20>her apartments.

762
00:44:03.159 --> 00:44:04.679
<v Speaker 9>It would have been it's there.

763
00:44:04.599 --> 00:44:07.199
<v Speaker 15>Because he touched her, she touched you.

764
00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:11.280
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's what I'm saying to you. Well, am I

765
00:44:11.400 --> 00:44:13.039
<v Speaker 3>being charge with anything yet?

766
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:13.239
<v Speaker 4>No?

767
00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:14.880
<v Speaker 15>So absolutely not.

768
00:44:15.639 --> 00:44:16.800
<v Speaker 3>Why I mean.

769
00:44:18.519 --> 00:44:19.719
<v Speaker 15>I don't know what's the stadium.

770
00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:23.960
<v Speaker 3>I mean, you know I cooperated all the way to

771
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:26.400
<v Speaker 3>those you guys. Yeah, and we appreciate that, and that's

772
00:44:26.440 --> 00:44:28.320
<v Speaker 3>why that's why we have you.

773
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:28.719
<v Speaker 16>To come back.

774
00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:31.599
<v Speaker 3>No, you say you got being a from me, I mean.

775
00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:33.480
<v Speaker 15>We're trying to figure that out.

776
00:44:33.639 --> 00:44:33.840
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

777
00:44:34.239 --> 00:44:36.719
<v Speaker 16>Yeah, so I best talked to the lawyer.

778
00:44:36.880 --> 00:44:39.360
<v Speaker 19>I mean when you approached me, So the only way

779
00:44:39.400 --> 00:44:41.360
<v Speaker 19>to get there is if I touched her or something.

780
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:47.239
<v Speaker 3>So that's pretty fucked up right there. I mean, whether

781
00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:47.960
<v Speaker 3>I ship.

782
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Her hand that day, Like I say, I remember her

783
00:44:50.719 --> 00:44:53.880
<v Speaker 2>now because of the pictures in the faces, you.

784
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:55.760
<v Speaker 9>Know what I mean, and then being on the news.

785
00:44:57.079 --> 00:45:01.039
<v Speaker 25>But at that day when everything happened, I remember that

786
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:03.280
<v Speaker 25>was fun of the people that obed.

787
00:45:04.920 --> 00:45:07.960
<v Speaker 1>He said, maybe he did ask Brittany for money that day,

788
00:45:08.039 --> 00:45:11.199
<v Speaker 1>but he didn't recall it. If he did, maybe he

789
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:14.719
<v Speaker 1>shook her hand or gave her a hug. But after

790
00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:19.840
<v Speaker 1>that he thought it wise to consult a lawyer. The

791
00:45:19.920 --> 00:45:22.679
<v Speaker 1>reason he wasn't being charged then in there is that

792
00:45:22.800 --> 00:45:27.079
<v Speaker 1>police were hoping for a confession. The reprocessing of DNA

793
00:45:27.639 --> 00:45:32.199
<v Speaker 1>didn't provide a match. Call wasn't a perfect match, but

794
00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.239
<v Speaker 1>he couldn't be excluded either. Remember DNA samples were mixed

795
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:41.199
<v Speaker 1>and degraded. This is the best the lab could do.

796
00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:46.280
<v Speaker 1>The District attorney's office wouldn't prosecute with so little evidence

797
00:45:47.280 --> 00:45:51.320
<v Speaker 1>without a confession and call lawyering up. The case started

798
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:55.519
<v Speaker 1>to stall. The next year, in twenty twelve, another detective

799
00:45:55.639 --> 00:46:00.920
<v Speaker 1>took over the case. It continued to drift. In twenty fourteen,

800
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the department got a new chief. With the regime change,

801
00:46:06.199 --> 00:46:11.719
<v Speaker 1>the department underwent restructuring twenty fifteen provided no new leads either.

802
00:46:13.039 --> 00:46:17.519
<v Speaker 1>Then in twenty sixteen, a tip came in. A man

803
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:21.519
<v Speaker 1>named Skulls said that Call confessed to him while in prison.

804
00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:21.880
<v Speaker 23>Together.

805
00:46:23.039 --> 00:46:26.199
<v Speaker 1>This would have cinched the conviction, except that Skulls was

806
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:31.119
<v Speaker 1>leveraging this information to obtain a pardon. Jail house snitches

807
00:46:31.199 --> 00:46:35.719
<v Speaker 1>with a motive are rarely credible. This claim wasn't immediately

808
00:46:35.800 --> 00:46:40.440
<v Speaker 1>considered a reliable lead. It got stuck in internal administrative

809
00:46:40.519 --> 00:46:45.320
<v Speaker 1>channels before ever going to detectives. That same year, the

810
00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:49.760
<v Speaker 1>new detective met with Call. The interview lasted only two

811
00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:52.679
<v Speaker 1>and a half minutes before he politely shut it down.

812
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:56.199
<v Speaker 24>Day would be having a conversation with you.

813
00:46:57.559 --> 00:46:59.159
<v Speaker 3>We are now here for any reason that you.

814
00:46:59.159 --> 00:47:02.719
<v Speaker 24>Are currently here, but fortunately so we have to make

815
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.719
<v Speaker 24>sure you understand that you have rights. Okay, I know

816
00:47:06.840 --> 00:47:08.400
<v Speaker 24>you had your right spread to you in the past.

817
00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:10.920
<v Speaker 24>You know how many times you had your right threads

818
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:13.960
<v Speaker 24>to you in the past, and you had your right

819
00:47:14.000 --> 00:47:16.039
<v Speaker 24>spread to you in the basket She's.

820
00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Done at the Sinner ran a few times is an understatement.

821
00:47:21.119 --> 00:47:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Carl had spent the eight years since the death of

822
00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:27.800
<v Speaker 1>Brittany in and out of jail for various charges. He

823
00:47:27.960 --> 00:47:32.519
<v Speaker 1>knew the routine and with the lingering fear of DNA

824
00:47:32.719 --> 00:47:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and now the claim by Skulls call, wasn't willing to

825
00:47:37.000 --> 00:47:38.800
<v Speaker 1>cooperate having these.

826
00:47:38.800 --> 00:47:40.679
<v Speaker 24>Rights in mind, you wish to talk to us now

827
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:42.239
<v Speaker 24>rather than not.

828
00:47:42.440 --> 00:47:44.000
<v Speaker 3>But I'm Frey advised me not too.

829
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:48.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, here's up here a week or two ago, and said,

830
00:47:48.840 --> 00:47:49.880
<v Speaker 2>don't talk anymore.

831
00:47:50.840 --> 00:47:53.199
<v Speaker 15>Okay, So there you go.

832
00:47:53.880 --> 00:47:58.000
<v Speaker 2>I've been cooperating, like I say, said the Geregle, just

833
00:47:58.239 --> 00:47:59.599
<v Speaker 2>the ball that reviews and runner.

834
00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:03.800
<v Speaker 10>And then he asked me why and all Andrew's bold

835
00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:05.800
<v Speaker 10>and I sent the letter.

836
00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:06.440
<v Speaker 15>I think it was.

837
00:48:06.760 --> 00:48:10.519
<v Speaker 3>Detective Miller with Andrew sposed to call me a.

838
00:48:10.599 --> 00:48:13.039
<v Speaker 2>Rat and throwing him out of the boss why he

839
00:48:13.159 --> 00:48:13.840
<v Speaker 2>was gonna.

840
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:17.119
<v Speaker 25>Try to make a deal with you guys or something?

841
00:48:18.039 --> 00:48:23.039
<v Speaker 25>Football play so I whatever, I have a name talent.

842
00:48:24.360 --> 00:48:27.559
<v Speaker 25>He said, you just gotta pan on somebody and anybody

843
00:48:27.639 --> 00:48:28.960
<v Speaker 25>that you can get you to FID.

844
00:48:31.000 --> 00:48:35.639
<v Speaker 3>So I'm done operating. Well, we are only englished in

845
00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:39.039
<v Speaker 3>the truth. I'll say that not to you, but in general.

846
00:48:39.320 --> 00:48:41.159
<v Speaker 20>Yeah, and.

847
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:47.360
<v Speaker 3>If you're right, okay, thank you very much, yep, thank you.

848
00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:51.800
<v Speaker 1>Another attempt at getting a confession from a man who

849
00:48:51.920 --> 00:48:56.639
<v Speaker 1>consistently claimed he wasn't involved. They always polite call chose

850
00:48:56.719 --> 00:49:01.840
<v Speaker 1>to remain silent. Twenty sixteen would have in twenty seventeen

851
00:49:02.280 --> 00:49:06.760
<v Speaker 1>would start with the new year came yet another new detective.

852
00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:11.920
<v Speaker 1>A full review of the case started yet again. But

853
00:49:12.039 --> 00:49:15.679
<v Speaker 1>before the claims of Andrew's skulls could be vetted or verified,

854
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:21.159
<v Speaker 1>he died in a motorcycle accident. By the time anyone

855
00:49:21.280 --> 00:49:25.280
<v Speaker 1>considered the tip a viable lead, he was already gone.

856
00:49:26.679 --> 00:49:30.599
<v Speaker 1>This brought investigators to the tenth anniversary of Brittany's death

857
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:36.440
<v Speaker 1>in twenty eighteen. Her family was still waiting for answers.

858
00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:42.079
<v Speaker 1>After ten years, the community had largely moved on. The

859
00:49:42.159 --> 00:49:45.239
<v Speaker 1>case had survived longer than the people assigned to it.

860
00:49:46.480 --> 00:49:49.280
<v Speaker 1>What no one realized yet was that the piece of

861
00:49:49.360 --> 00:49:53.239
<v Speaker 1>evidence that would finally break the case had been sitting

862
00:49:53.280 --> 00:50:29.320
<v Speaker 1>in a storage locker for nearly a decade. For years,

863
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:33.280
<v Speaker 1>police had DNA, but not the kind that gives answers.

864
00:50:34.360 --> 00:50:39.159
<v Speaker 1>The samples from Britney's apartment were mixed or DNA was everywhere.

865
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Whatever the attacker left behind was tangled up with it.

866
00:50:44.119 --> 00:50:46.880
<v Speaker 1>The testing could only rule people out, but it couldn't

867
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:53.039
<v Speaker 1>point to exactly one person, David call could not be excluded,

868
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:57.760
<v Speaker 1>It could not be charged either. As the years passed

869
00:50:57.800 --> 00:51:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and technology improved to actives kept trying, the results stayed

870
00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:08.440
<v Speaker 1>the same. Too much doubt, not enough proof, hell of

871
00:51:08.480 --> 00:51:14.719
<v Speaker 1>a system. Until one day in twenty twenty, something finally changed.

872
00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:19.239
<v Speaker 1>But before moving forward, police returned to the one man

873
00:51:20.159 --> 00:51:23.280
<v Speaker 1>they had never been able to rule out. David Kall,

874
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:25.280
<v Speaker 1>How much do you know about Britney?

875
00:51:26.360 --> 00:51:29.239
<v Speaker 3>Not anything she said she was murdered.

876
00:51:29.800 --> 00:51:32.760
<v Speaker 10>She was a college kid, she loved animals, and she

877
00:51:32.840 --> 00:51:35.800
<v Speaker 10>wanted to go to med school was her major. She

878
00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:37.639
<v Speaker 10>was a little with the guys she was engaged to.

879
00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:40.000
<v Speaker 10>And I'm not trying to pull out her heart strengths here.

880
00:51:40.119 --> 00:51:43.639
<v Speaker 10>And it's just not explaining to you why this is

881
00:51:44.000 --> 00:51:47.119
<v Speaker 10>a serious case that the massive police department in our

882
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:48.400
<v Speaker 10>office is kept looking at.

883
00:51:48.400 --> 00:51:49.199
<v Speaker 11>For fourty years.

884
00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:54.599
<v Speaker 10>Your story, you know, over time is different, okay, And

885
00:51:54.719 --> 00:51:56.719
<v Speaker 10>I think I don't know how much you remember of

886
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:59.280
<v Speaker 10>different times you've said things, and it's changed a.

887
00:51:59.280 --> 00:52:02.480
<v Speaker 3>Little bit today, coun times I was drum right, and

888
00:52:03.800 --> 00:52:07.159
<v Speaker 3>I get that, ye, and your DNA does.

889
00:52:09.039 --> 00:52:12.360
<v Speaker 10>Based on how today's science books is telling us that

890
00:52:12.400 --> 00:52:17.039
<v Speaker 10>it's very likely that it's your DNA on Britney's sleeves,

891
00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:18.920
<v Speaker 10>as well as especially your genes.

892
00:52:18.920 --> 00:52:24.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay, it had been twelve years since Britney's murder, and

893
00:52:24.280 --> 00:52:27.559
<v Speaker 1>Carl had aged quite a bit. He was now fifty

894
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.719
<v Speaker 1>three years old and looked every bit of it. He

895
00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:33.840
<v Speaker 1>had gained weight, and what little hair he had left

896
00:52:34.079 --> 00:52:38.159
<v Speaker 1>was even more gray. But he had been confronted with

897
00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:42.199
<v Speaker 1>DNA evidence before, so he remained calm as he heard

898
00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:44.119
<v Speaker 1>the detective out, do.

899
00:52:44.199 --> 00:52:45.840
<v Speaker 3>You know more about would happen to her?

900
00:52:46.840 --> 00:52:49.360
<v Speaker 10>And what you're worried about is that you're the person

901
00:52:49.440 --> 00:52:51.400
<v Speaker 10>all the evidence points out, but you still.

902
00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:54.239
<v Speaker 3>Aren't the most cultorable person the drums would actually happened

903
00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:54.480
<v Speaker 3>to her.

904
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:58.079
<v Speaker 10>We're just trying to figure out if there are other

905
00:52:58.159 --> 00:53:02.199
<v Speaker 10>people involved. Is there anything else you can think of

906
00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:05.079
<v Speaker 10>that you can tell us, or something that you haven't

907
00:53:05.119 --> 00:53:08.280
<v Speaker 10>want to talk about that you feel some important that

908
00:53:08.360 --> 00:53:11.000
<v Speaker 10>we know about what happened, not just for Britney's sake,

909
00:53:11.079 --> 00:53:14.360
<v Speaker 10>but for your own sake in terms of I was

910
00:53:14.400 --> 00:53:17.800
<v Speaker 10>there something happened, but I'm not the person who strangled

911
00:53:17.840 --> 00:53:20.920
<v Speaker 10>her and stamped her, you know, and she basically died

912
00:53:20.960 --> 00:53:23.480
<v Speaker 10>a really miserable death.

913
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:29.199
<v Speaker 1>Detective Nail reminded Call that he had previously admitted he

914
00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:33.440
<v Speaker 1>was involved in burglaries that day. Call said he didn't

915
00:53:33.440 --> 00:53:37.239
<v Speaker 1>remember that at all. Twelve years is a long time

916
00:53:37.360 --> 00:53:41.000
<v Speaker 1>to remember every detail of a story, he gave, especially

917
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:45.280
<v Speaker 1>when it's just a story and not something that actually happened.

918
00:53:46.000 --> 00:53:48.920
<v Speaker 26>If you guys had entered this place and maybe she

919
00:53:49.159 --> 00:53:54.719
<v Speaker 26>came home and found you, or you guys surprised her, again,

920
00:53:54.800 --> 00:53:57.400
<v Speaker 26>I need to I mean, that's what I need to know.

921
00:53:57.960 --> 00:54:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I wasn't in there, old money from her.

922
00:54:01.079 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 3>I used their bathroom. I believe I had a glass

923
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.280
<v Speaker 3>of water, and then I left.

924
00:54:09.480 --> 00:54:11.480
<v Speaker 26>You do remember being in Britney's place?

925
00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:11.719
<v Speaker 14>Then?

926
00:54:11.880 --> 00:54:12.039
<v Speaker 22>Yeah?

927
00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:13.000
<v Speaker 3>Okay.

928
00:54:14.719 --> 00:54:18.400
<v Speaker 1>Suddenly, for the first time, he remembered being in Britney's apartment.

929
00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.559
<v Speaker 1>He even remembered specific details about using the bathroom and

930
00:54:22.920 --> 00:54:26.639
<v Speaker 1>drinking a glass of water. Where was all this recollection

931
00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:28.440
<v Speaker 1>all these years ago?

932
00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:31.599
<v Speaker 3>Well, was that you getting a glass of water and

933
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:36.039
<v Speaker 3>using the bathroom? I'm not sure. I'm not sure how

934
00:54:36.119 --> 00:54:39.320
<v Speaker 3>that gets your DNA on her hants.

935
00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Even with flaws in his claims, pointed out, Call stuck

936
00:54:44.760 --> 00:54:50.079
<v Speaker 1>to it he wasn't involved in Britney's death, but the

937
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:54.280
<v Speaker 1>evidence said otherwise. After all these years, the detectives just

938
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:57.519
<v Speaker 1>wanted to put the Zimmerman's mind at ease.

939
00:54:58.519 --> 00:55:01.239
<v Speaker 3>David, I gotta say, I'm sorry, but do you love

940
00:55:01.320 --> 00:55:01.679
<v Speaker 3>your mom?

941
00:55:01.880 --> 00:55:03.880
<v Speaker 19>That Brittany has a mom out there who loved her

942
00:55:03.960 --> 00:55:07.280
<v Speaker 19>so much, and she deserves to know even just a

943
00:55:07.360 --> 00:55:07.880
<v Speaker 19>little bit.

944
00:55:07.840 --> 00:55:08.960
<v Speaker 3>Of what you can tell us.

945
00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:12.840
<v Speaker 1>The detective told him they believed they had enough evidence

946
00:55:12.920 --> 00:55:16.320
<v Speaker 1>to implicate him, but they wanted to know whether anyone

947
00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:21.679
<v Speaker 1>else was involved. Call, though never cracked. He stuck to

948
00:55:21.800 --> 00:55:26.239
<v Speaker 1>his newest version of events. He never confessed to anything.

949
00:55:26.880 --> 00:55:30.440
<v Speaker 27>On April tewod two thousand and eight, almost twelve years ago,

950
00:55:31.000 --> 00:55:35.559
<v Speaker 27>Britney Zimmerman was killed in her downtown Madison apartment. Today

951
00:55:35.559 --> 00:55:38.239
<v Speaker 27>I can announce that criminal chargers have been filed in

952
00:55:38.360 --> 00:55:38.760
<v Speaker 27>her death.

953
00:55:39.840 --> 00:55:40.920
<v Speaker 9>David Call, a.

954
00:55:40.960 --> 00:55:43.760
<v Speaker 27>Fifty three year old male, has been charged in Dane

955
00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:47.840
<v Speaker 27>County Circuit Court with first degree intentional homicide, as a

956
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:51.559
<v Speaker 27>party to a crime, and with a dangerous weapon. In

957
00:55:51.639 --> 00:55:55.079
<v Speaker 27>the years that have passed, her case never went cold

958
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:59.920
<v Speaker 27>and was never anything but a priority for MPD investigated

959
00:56:00.199 --> 00:56:05.760
<v Speaker 27>work tirelessly over the years, following leads, conducting hundreds of interviews,

960
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:11.639
<v Speaker 27>processing countless pieces of evidence, and producing thousands of pages

961
00:56:11.679 --> 00:56:17.199
<v Speaker 27>of police reports. Britney's parents, Kevin and Jean, have remained

962
00:56:17.239 --> 00:56:20.239
<v Speaker 27>heavily invested in the case over the years. They've met

963
00:56:20.320 --> 00:56:25.920
<v Speaker 27>regularly with MPD investigators and MPD leadership. They're asking for

964
00:56:26.039 --> 00:56:31.280
<v Speaker 27>privacy during this difficult time. Call is currently incarcerated in

965
00:56:31.360 --> 00:56:35.280
<v Speaker 27>the Wisconsin prison system on unrelated charges. At some point

966
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.440
<v Speaker 27>he'll be transported to Dane County for proceedings in connection

967
00:56:39.679 --> 00:56:44.239
<v Speaker 27>with this case. This was truly a senseless crime, taking

968
00:56:44.320 --> 00:56:46.920
<v Speaker 27>the life of a young woman with a bright future.

969
00:56:47.679 --> 00:56:50.639
<v Speaker 27>Nothing we do can change that. But my hope is

970
00:56:50.679 --> 00:56:54.519
<v Speaker 27>that what happens today will be a significant step in

971
00:56:54.599 --> 00:56:55.679
<v Speaker 27>the process.

972
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.760
<v Speaker 9>To do justice for Brittany and for her family.

973
00:56:59.480 --> 00:56:59.800
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

974
00:57:01.239 --> 00:57:06.159
<v Speaker 1>Finally, David Call was charged with first degree murder intentional homicide.

975
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:10.880
<v Speaker 1>When Detective Nail took over Brittany Zimmerman's case in twenty seventeen,

976
00:57:11.679 --> 00:57:17.159
<v Speaker 1>he didn't start with suspects. He started with boxes, evidence bags,

977
00:57:17.719 --> 00:57:23.159
<v Speaker 1>old reports, things that hadn't been touched in years. He

978
00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:27.440
<v Speaker 1>didn't just review it, he reevaluated it. That's when he

979
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:31.199
<v Speaker 1>saw it. The anonymous letter from two thousand and nine

980
00:57:31.400 --> 00:57:37.199
<v Speaker 1>implicating an inmate by the initials f R. The contents

981
00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:40.000
<v Speaker 1>of the letter had been deemed unreliable and it was

982
00:57:40.079 --> 00:57:44.280
<v Speaker 1>filed away in a box, but Detective Nail was thorough

983
00:57:44.960 --> 00:57:48.000
<v Speaker 1>and sent the letter and its envelope for DNA testing.

984
00:57:49.159 --> 00:57:52.920
<v Speaker 1>The test results proved that the letter had been penned, licked,

985
00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:58.719
<v Speaker 1>and sealed by David Kall. The DNA on Brittany and

986
00:57:59.000 --> 00:58:01.719
<v Speaker 1>in her apartment wasn't a perfect match, but the DNA

987
00:58:02.159 --> 00:58:08.360
<v Speaker 1>on the envelope was, without a doubt a match. The

988
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:12.719
<v Speaker 1>Zimmermans were beside themselves with relief and the odd sense

989
00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:15.880
<v Speaker 1>that the emotions they had been dealing with for over

990
00:58:15.960 --> 00:58:18.679
<v Speaker 1>a decade would soon be gone.

991
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:23.920
<v Speaker 28>And along with my parents have become emotionally comm scarred

992
00:58:24.440 --> 00:58:29.079
<v Speaker 28>and numb. My family have been waiting twelve years, eight

993
00:58:29.159 --> 00:58:34.280
<v Speaker 28>months in one day or this decaided for us to

994
00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:35.960
<v Speaker 28>be able to see this individual.

995
00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:41.519
<v Speaker 1>During Kaul's arraignment, he stood silent and a not guilty

996
00:58:41.599 --> 00:58:45.519
<v Speaker 1>plea was entered on his behalf, But two years later,

997
00:58:45.639 --> 00:58:47.960
<v Speaker 1>in twenty twenty two, he would agree to a plea

998
00:58:48.079 --> 00:58:50.840
<v Speaker 1>deal and plead guilty to.

999
00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:54.480
<v Speaker 21>Count one first degree intentional homicide.

1000
00:58:55.320 --> 00:59:00.199
<v Speaker 9>What is your plea guilty your honor are you Are you.

1001
00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:06.599
<v Speaker 21>Cleading guilty because you did intentionally cause the death of

1002
00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:07.679
<v Speaker 21>Britney Zimmermann.

1003
00:59:08.639 --> 00:59:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you are call admitted he killed Brittany. He saw

1004
00:59:13.519 --> 00:59:16.320
<v Speaker 1>her getting home from school and followed her breaking into

1005
00:59:16.400 --> 00:59:20.920
<v Speaker 1>her apartment. He likely gave the usual spiel about needing

1006
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:22.159
<v Speaker 1>money for a flat tire.

1007
00:59:23.400 --> 00:59:23.920
<v Speaker 11>You know the.

1008
00:59:23.960 --> 00:59:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Excuses you hear just outside Panera bread from the homeless

1009
00:59:28.320 --> 00:59:31.280
<v Speaker 1>man who you're going to sign a Disney like storyline to.

1010
00:59:32.280 --> 00:59:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Whereas he's closer to a virus, a plague on society,

1011
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:40.559
<v Speaker 1>something that rots it from within. But you do you,

1012
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:43.280
<v Speaker 1>and you can be as generous as you like with

1013
00:59:43.400 --> 00:59:48.320
<v Speaker 1>your spare change. His family wasn't, his friends aren't if

1014
00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:51.639
<v Speaker 1>he has any. But you can go ahead and think

1015
00:59:51.679 --> 00:59:55.800
<v Speaker 1>the best and and over a couple quarters, go right

1016
00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:00.679
<v Speaker 1>ahead and enjoy. Brittany didn't fall for it, though, She

1017
01:00:01.039 --> 01:00:04.079
<v Speaker 1>refused to give him any money and started to call

1018
01:00:04.360 --> 01:00:08.079
<v Speaker 1>nine to one one. That's when he snapped and attacked her.

1019
01:00:09.360 --> 01:00:13.159
<v Speaker 1>She fought back. Furniture was knocked around in the struggle,

1020
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:17.639
<v Speaker 1>so he wrapped his sweatshirt around her neck and pulled

1021
01:00:17.679 --> 01:00:20.239
<v Speaker 1>it tight. He got up on top of her and

1022
01:00:20.320 --> 01:00:24.519
<v Speaker 1>stabbed her nineteen times in the chest. Then he fled

1023
01:00:24.719 --> 01:00:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and spent the next fourteen years pretending it never happened.

1024
01:00:29.719 --> 01:00:33.639
<v Speaker 1>Homeless people don't get homeless by accident. You know, It's

1025
01:00:33.880 --> 01:00:40.760
<v Speaker 1>rarely ever the sob story you hear on publicly supported airwaves. Anyway,

1026
01:00:40.840 --> 01:00:43.440
<v Speaker 1>During the sentencing, Brittany's aunt addressed the.

1027
01:00:43.519 --> 01:00:49.119
<v Speaker 23>Court, we as a family have nothing but pain, We

1028
01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.639
<v Speaker 23>have nothing but daily reminders, and we've had nothing but

1029
01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:56.119
<v Speaker 23>torture for fourteen and a half years while he did

1030
01:00:56.199 --> 01:01:00.800
<v Speaker 23>his soul searching to decide to come clean. I think

1031
01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:06.199
<v Speaker 23>it takes a lot of audacity for someone in custody

1032
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:09.719
<v Speaker 23>to request a transfer from the county jail to the

1033
01:01:09.800 --> 01:01:13.639
<v Speaker 23>state prison because he thinks he will get better medical

1034
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:22.840
<v Speaker 23>care after he has stripped my family of an incredibly loved,

1035
01:01:23.559 --> 01:01:28.320
<v Speaker 23>an amazing human who wanted to do nothing but good

1036
01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:29.239
<v Speaker 23>things in this world.

1037
01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Then David Call addressed the court and the family with

1038
01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:36.679
<v Speaker 1>an apology that was anything but sincere.

1039
01:01:37.639 --> 01:01:44.079
<v Speaker 2>I would like to apologize to everybody, specially Roman families.

1040
01:01:45.960 --> 01:01:50.280
<v Speaker 2>I took away Brittany's twenty one year old life.

1041
01:01:52.039 --> 01:01:53.320
<v Speaker 3>Family that she could have had.

1042
01:01:54.559 --> 01:01:55.599
<v Speaker 9>I just feel horrible.

1043
01:01:57.559 --> 01:01:57.840
<v Speaker 3>I was.

1044
01:01:59.480 --> 01:02:03.679
<v Speaker 9>I was just I feel horrible, and I make scept

1045
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:05.840
<v Speaker 9>some halishments coma.

1046
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:10.039
<v Speaker 1>The apology fell short of giving the Zimmermans any comfort.

1047
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:14.320
<v Speaker 1>David Call just seemed like an old man at the

1048
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:18.719
<v Speaker 1>end of a rope. At the time, Call was seriously ill,

1049
01:02:19.719 --> 01:02:22.320
<v Speaker 1>his years of hard living had finally caught up with him.

1050
01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:26.280
<v Speaker 1>His plea agreement seemed to be more self serving than

1051
01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:31.199
<v Speaker 1>anything else. In prison, he would get better medical care,

1052
01:02:31.559 --> 01:02:33.480
<v Speaker 1>being the parasite he was.

1053
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:37.679
<v Speaker 17>You did finally take responsibility for you did, and you

1054
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:42.440
<v Speaker 17>did plead guilty, and as I say that, you did

1055
01:02:42.800 --> 01:02:44.679
<v Speaker 17>spare her family and friends.

1056
01:02:44.719 --> 01:02:45.639
<v Speaker 9>The agony is going.

1057
01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:49.440
<v Speaker 21>Through a public trial, but it does not negate the

1058
01:02:49.519 --> 01:02:51.840
<v Speaker 21>years of your off uscation.

1059
01:02:52.840 --> 01:02:55.559
<v Speaker 9>And obstruction regarding the investigation.

1060
01:02:55.639 --> 01:03:00.280
<v Speaker 21>In this case, there is such a sense of us

1061
01:03:00.719 --> 01:03:05.000
<v Speaker 21>and sadness and pain there, and the weed of almost

1062
01:03:05.079 --> 01:03:08.159
<v Speaker 21>fifteen years to get to this moment was excruciating.

1063
01:03:09.079 --> 01:03:10.360
<v Speaker 9>It just was excruciating.

1064
01:03:11.679 --> 01:03:16.440
<v Speaker 21>So many lives have been tragically altered by your actions,

1065
01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:20.800
<v Speaker 21>mister Call. I do conclude, mister Call, that you must

1066
01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:24.840
<v Speaker 21>be removed from society for the rest of your life.

1067
01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:31.320
<v Speaker 21>The magnitude of your crime demands it, your character demands it,

1068
01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:34.280
<v Speaker 21>and the protection of the public demands it.

1069
01:03:34.800 --> 01:03:38.079
<v Speaker 17>It is the just and right thing to do.

1070
01:03:39.960 --> 01:03:42.360
<v Speaker 1>David Call was sentenced to life in prison without the

1071
01:03:42.519 --> 01:03:48.400
<v Speaker 1>possibility of release. After sentencing, the Zimmerman family held a

1072
01:03:48.440 --> 01:03:49.199
<v Speaker 1>press conference.

1073
01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:52.960
<v Speaker 11>We knew in between basically that he was going, that

1074
01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:57.559
<v Speaker 11>he had asked to stay there forever. Our thoughts on

1075
01:03:57.679 --> 01:04:00.679
<v Speaker 11>that were it was self serving. As Kim had said,

1076
01:04:01.280 --> 01:04:04.559
<v Speaker 11>he only did it so that his family and his

1077
01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:09.039
<v Speaker 11>mother specifically would not have to hear the gruesome details

1078
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:11.760
<v Speaker 11>of what he did to our daughter. That is our belief.

1079
01:04:12.039 --> 01:04:15.000
<v Speaker 11>I guess I can't talk for him, but that is

1080
01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:17.599
<v Speaker 11>my belief and why he did what he did. I

1081
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:21.079
<v Speaker 11>don't think he, you know, had a come to Jesus moment.

1082
01:04:21.440 --> 01:04:23.719
<v Speaker 11>Why he confessed all of a sudden fourteen and a

1083
01:04:23.719 --> 01:04:26.159
<v Speaker 11>half year later and he had to get it off

1084
01:04:26.199 --> 01:04:28.880
<v Speaker 11>his chest. I think he was scared to death. He knew,

1085
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:31.559
<v Speaker 11>like you know, it was said, the walls were closing in.

1086
01:04:32.039 --> 01:04:33.000
<v Speaker 11>He had no choice.

1087
01:04:34.559 --> 01:04:37.280
<v Speaker 1>After years of suffering and wondering if their daughter's killer

1088
01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:41.800
<v Speaker 1>would ever be brought to justice, the Zimmermans could finally relax,

1089
01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:47.960
<v Speaker 1>but in Brittany's death, they found their voice, a voice

1090
01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:50.599
<v Speaker 1>to fight against injustice.

1091
01:04:50.840 --> 01:04:52.760
<v Speaker 4>What he did was.

1092
01:04:54.840 --> 01:04:59.719
<v Speaker 11>Unspeakable and to not have the person responsible for that

1093
01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:03.639
<v Speaker 11>hind mars it was unacceptable to us. So we were

1094
01:05:03.679 --> 01:05:07.599
<v Speaker 11>willing and we did whatever we had to do. Our

1095
01:05:07.639 --> 01:05:11.519
<v Speaker 11>family has been our number one supporters. I mean, my

1096
01:05:11.639 --> 01:05:14.159
<v Speaker 11>sister's been it every single solitary thing with us.

1097
01:05:14.920 --> 01:05:18.880
<v Speaker 23>She is our speaker. This was every step the loss

1098
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:21.079
<v Speaker 23>from to the nine one one center, etc. It was

1099
01:05:21.280 --> 01:05:25.400
<v Speaker 23>never about money. It was about doing the right thing

1100
01:05:26.039 --> 01:05:29.360
<v Speaker 23>for everyone else. So it was to make sure that

1101
01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:32.000
<v Speaker 23>there wasn't another parent who was going to lose their.

1102
01:05:32.000 --> 01:05:33.239
<v Speaker 11>Child to a dropped call.

1103
01:05:33.480 --> 01:05:36.800
<v Speaker 23>It was it was always about trying to do the

1104
01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:40.320
<v Speaker 23>right thing, which was what Forney's entire life was about,

1105
01:05:40.599 --> 01:05:43.519
<v Speaker 23>was doing the right thing. And that's in part what

1106
01:05:43.719 --> 01:05:46.719
<v Speaker 23>is so heartbreaking about the events of her murder is

1107
01:05:46.800 --> 01:05:50.880
<v Speaker 23>that she did everything right and that wasn't met by

1108
01:05:50.920 --> 01:05:53.000
<v Speaker 23>people doing the right thing for her. And so that's

1109
01:05:53.079 --> 01:05:56.039
<v Speaker 23>been it's been the irony.

1110
01:05:55.840 --> 01:05:56.880
<v Speaker 11>And the heartbreak of all of it.

1111
01:05:58.599 --> 01:06:02.119
<v Speaker 1>Justice didn't give the Zimmermans their daughter back. It didn't

1112
01:06:02.119 --> 01:06:05.360
<v Speaker 1>give them the years they spent waiting or the milestones

1113
01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:09.480
<v Speaker 1>they'll never get to see. What it did give them

1114
01:06:09.639 --> 01:06:13.320
<v Speaker 1>was an ending and the knowledge that they never stopped

1115
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:17.840
<v Speaker 1>doing the right thing. Over the years, that choice has

1116
01:06:17.960 --> 01:06:22.280
<v Speaker 1>cost them more than time. Britney's mother used the money

1117
01:06:22.559 --> 01:06:24.599
<v Speaker 1>that had been set aside for her wedding to help

1118
01:06:24.679 --> 01:06:29.760
<v Speaker 1>fund the reward for information about her killer. They gave interviews,

1119
01:06:29.920 --> 01:06:34.039
<v Speaker 1>They relived the worst day of their lives over and

1120
01:06:34.239 --> 01:06:39.440
<v Speaker 1>over again and again. They refuse to let the case

1121
01:06:40.280 --> 01:06:46.719
<v Speaker 1>and Britney's voice go quiet. And because of cases like Brittany,

1122
01:06:46.840 --> 01:06:52.880
<v Speaker 1>something did change. Wisconsin law was updated to expand the

1123
01:06:52.960 --> 01:06:56.760
<v Speaker 1>circumstances under which DNA is collected from people in the

1124
01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:01.599
<v Speaker 1>criminal justice system, a shift to prevent evidence from sitting

1125
01:07:01.719 --> 01:07:06.000
<v Speaker 1>in limbo, as it did in this case. It didn't

1126
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:10.039
<v Speaker 1>come soon enough for Brittany, but it may mean answers

1127
01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:15.880
<v Speaker 1>come sooner for someone else. And isn't that all we

1128
01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:20.480
<v Speaker 1>can do on this rock, on this spin around the sun,

1129
01:07:22.000 --> 01:07:28.119
<v Speaker 1>Just make it slightly better for the next person. If

1130
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:31.320
<v Speaker 1>you're homeless, you may not give a fuck, But if

1131
01:07:31.360 --> 01:07:36.840
<v Speaker 1>you care about the future of this thing we are humanity,

1132
01:07:37.960 --> 01:08:22.479
<v Speaker 1>then you might want to do just that. That's gonna

1133
01:08:22.479 --> 01:08:24.760
<v Speaker 1>do it for another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank

1134
01:08:24.800 --> 01:08:28.000
<v Speaker 1>you for joining us. If you have a technical issue,

1135
01:08:28.039 --> 01:08:30.520
<v Speaker 1>you can reach us at Support at swordinscale dot com

1136
01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:34.279
<v Speaker 1>and UH, if you have a complaint about our content

1137
01:08:34.399 --> 01:08:36.239
<v Speaker 1>and what I say, you can send that to our

1138
01:08:36.239 --> 01:08:40.399
<v Speaker 1>complaints department and your local trash bin. Otherwise, UH, you

1139
01:08:40.479 --> 01:08:44.119
<v Speaker 1>can find everything else you'll want on our website and app.

1140
01:08:44.680 --> 01:08:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Go to swordscale dot com for more info and we'll

1141
01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:50.920
<v Speaker 1>see you next week. Why don't you go ahead stay

1142
01:08:51.000 --> 01:08:52.000
<v Speaker 1>safe until that.

1143
01:10:13.000 --> 01:10:18.239
<v Speaker 15>Hoping people scouting about abating textu
