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Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

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not intended for all audiences.

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Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. Madison Small, I mean i'd take off.

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I mean, if I would have killed her, I would

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have been gone. You guys have never found me, right,

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I would never even went back to my apartment.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's I'm glad you go right there.

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Speaker 1: This is season thirteen, episode three hundred and fifty six

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of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the

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worst monsters are real. It's an overcast day in March

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twenty eighteen. The winter snow is finally giving way as

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the weather warms. Kevin and Jean Zimmerman sit in their

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living room with lights, a camera, and a local reporter

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staring back at them.

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Speaker 4: Does time sort of stop for you on that day

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on April second? Absolutely in two thousand and eight, Like,

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do you feel like you can you know that it

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is ten years later?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 5: I don't.

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Speaker 6: Oh no, it's quite unbelievable.

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Speaker 7: That is ten years already.

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Speaker 6: It's, you know, completely unbelievable.

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Speaker 1: They've done countless interviews over the years, and they're willing

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to do thousands more, anything to keep their daughter's case alive.

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Speaker 8: How often do you think about that day?

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Speaker 7: Every day, every single day.

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Speaker 6: We thought it was going to be solved right away.

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We didn't even consider that this that we'd be here

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ten years later.

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Speaker 1: Three days after this interview would mark ten years since

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their daughter, Brittany was killed. In that decade, the case

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had passed through three police chiefs and four lead detectives,

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years of work, with little to show for it. Only

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once did they think they were close.

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Speaker 8: Why do you think there hasn't been unarrest or even

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seemingly like a person of interest or a major break

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in the case.

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Speaker 9: I mean that we thought there was.

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Speaker 6: You know, it was two and a half years ago.

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Chief Cobalt came to our door on my husband's birthday

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and said, we believe we have the person responsible for

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killing your daughter the summer ninth.

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Speaker 1: That moment came in twenty sixteen, but two years later

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there was still no arrest. All the Zimmerman's could do

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was hold on to hope.

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Speaker 7: That's all we have is hope.

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Speaker 10: We can hope.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, but.

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Speaker 7: Realistically, I'm not really sure that they're ever going to

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solve this, at least not the way it's being handled

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right now. I just don't believe it.

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Speaker 1: When parents lose a child, they're powerless to do anything

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but wait. Justice moves on its own timeline, and in

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the Zimmerman's case, that timeline stretched endlessly. These interviews, these

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small acts of advocacy, were all they had control over.

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If speaking publicly could help or speed up catching Brittany's killer,

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they'd do it every day for the rest of their

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lives to make that happen.

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Speaker 8: What would you really tell people about why they should

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rack their brains.

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Speaker 7: Because if it was your child, you'd want everybody in

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the world to rack their brains for you.

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Speaker 6: Put yourself in our shoes just for a second.

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Speaker 7: Just for a second, put yourself in our shoes.

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Speaker 12: And what.

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Speaker 7: This little girl meant everything to us? And you know

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she was never there to hurt anybody. She was always

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there to help people.

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Speaker 1: Photos of Brittany still aligned every wall of their home,

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a family scarred by tragedy, frozen in time, clinging to

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whatever hope remained, and wondering whether the case would ever

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be solved. Meanwhile, the police department continued to work on

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their decade old investigation.

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Speaker 13: This is not what I would consider been relegated to

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a case. This still has active leads that are worthy.

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Speaker 1: The Zimmermans knew little about the leads detectives were chasing.

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They only knew that two years earlier, the police chief

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had told him they had the guy, but there had

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been no arrests. They were completely in the dark.

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Speaker 13: If I had the probable cause, based on the totality

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of the evidence I had, don't you think I would

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have made an arrest.

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Speaker 1: It turned out that the chief had spoken too soon.

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It was one of many missteps in an investigation that

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had been plagued by setbacks from the start. One of

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the biggest was losing the longtime lead investigator. The emotional

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toll of the case eventually became too heavy to bear.

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Speaker 14: He was convulsing at one point, and then I was convulsed,

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and I realized, we can't continue to sign cases this way.

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Speaker 1: The chiefs wore that moving forward, a team of investigators

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would carry the case. He was confident they would solve

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it eventually.

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Speaker 14: The old school cop and me still hopes now that

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slips will sink ships.

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Speaker 13: Someone's going to say something to somebody about this case in.

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Speaker 12: A bar or overheard.

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Speaker 1: But even if they did, even if the killer was

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finally behind bars, the Zimmerman's knew it would bring them

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little comfort. What they wanted most was the one thing

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that no investigation could return.

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Speaker 7: She would be a doctor right now that she wanted

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to be, and we would be proud of her, and

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we could go visit her on her animal farm and

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everything she wanted because she loved animals. That's what we wish,

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you know, that she could live her life the way

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she wanted to.

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Speaker 1: They had thought the case would be solved quickly by

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twenty eighteen. They simply hoped it would be solved at all.

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Their nightmare started on April second, two thousand and eight,

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when their daughter was attacked inside her apartment in the

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middle of the day. The mistake started almost immediately. And

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to understand how this case remained open for a decade,

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you have to go back to the start.

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Speaker 6: Monday will mark ten years as a brutal murder that

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rocked downtown Madison.

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Speaker 5: It's been five years since Britty Zimmerman was killed here

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on a Jonas Street.

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Speaker 1: Friday will mark the two year anniversary of the Madison

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murder of Brittany Zimmerman. It's April second, two thousand and eight.

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Jordan Gonnering hops on his moped and heads towards the

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University of Wisconsin Madison campus. This Beyonce. Brittany is already

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in class. She had a big test that morning. He

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rides a short distance to campus from their apartment and

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joining the sun. It wouldn't feel so cold if it

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weren't for the wind, he thinks to himself. He gets

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back to campus at around eleven thirty. He goes out

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on one of the balconies of the Van Hies Building

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and scans the quad for Brittany. She turns her phone

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off in class, but he knows she'll be coming out

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of the Bacteriology building. Then he spots her. She stands

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out with her golden hair and the collar of her

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lime green pea coat pulled up around her neck. He

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calls her name. She looks around for a moment before

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looking up to the balcony. A smile spreads across her

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face when she sees Jordan. He points to his phone

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and she remembers her phone is off. She turns it

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on and it rings instantly. Jordan asks her how her

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parasitology test went. She sighs, but says it went fine.

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They have a quick conversation just touching base before their

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dinner plans that night. Finish their phone call, and Jordan

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starts heading to his Russian literature class, which starts at

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twelve oh five. After class ends at twelve fifty five,

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Jordan walks back to his moped and hops on. He

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weaves through the campus and onto his street. He gets home,

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parks his bike on the side of the house, and

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walks to the front door like he always does. Then

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he stops. The lock on the outside security door is busted.

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It looks like somebody kicked it in. He can't remember

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if it was always like this. He stares at it

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for a moment, thinking, but dismisses it and starts to

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go inside. He reaches to open the closed door and

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notices it's unlocked. He thinks that's weird, but he also

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knows their landlord was supposed to show the apartment that day,

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so he assumes that's why. He walks in saide and

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takes off his backpack, his jacket, and his shoes. Usually

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their three cats would greet him at the door, but

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today they were nowhere to be found. Jordan takes a

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few steps towards the back of the small apartment and

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freezes on the floor in the bedroom. Is Brittany. Just

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for a second he thinks she's pranking him, But as

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soon as he inches close, he sees blood. Jordan would

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call nine one one at one eight pm nine one.

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Speaker 15: One with the adders of the emergency. Nine one with

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the address of the emergency. Hello, nine one one with

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the EDIR for the emergency.

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Speaker 1: His phone barely holds a connection. He manages to give

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the address on West Doty Street before the call cuts out.

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Speaker 9: Class it's what you're cutting out? Can hear me?

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Speaker 15: Hello?

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Speaker 11: Hello?

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Speaker 15: Okay, your phone's cut now? Did you say upper or

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lower flags?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 1: The dispatcher tries again. Their voices break in and out,

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tangled and static?

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Speaker 12: Okay, ambulance and needed.

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Speaker 9: Okay. What is your name?

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Speaker 12: Jordan Garing?

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Speaker 15: Okay, come exactly what happened?

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Speaker 16: I just came home.

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Speaker 12: The door was bumped in and my girlfriend's been shot.

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Speaker 9: Okay, stand the phone with me. Okay, are you with

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her right now? Yes?

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Speaker 12: I am?

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Speaker 9: How old is she she is?

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Speaker 12: Thanks?

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Speaker 9: Miss twenty one twenty one? Is she conscious? No, she's not.

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Is she breathing?

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Speaker 17: No, she's not.

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Speaker 1: Up to this point in his life, the most serious

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thing Jordan has faced was final exams. Now he's kneeling

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beside the woman he planned to marry, trying to save

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her life. The dispatcher checks to make sure the attacker

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is no longer there. Oh, while relaying information to officers

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already in round.

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Speaker 5: The color has no idea.

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Speaker 9: He just walked in and found his girlfriend like this.

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Speaker 5: Color has no idea who would have done it?

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Speaker 9: Is there any serious bleeding? Okay? There is serious bleeding? Yes, okay.

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Speaker 15: I'm sending an ambulance to help you. I want you

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to stand the line that needs to incite what to

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do next.

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Speaker 9: Okay, Okay, did you say she is or she is

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not breathing?

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Speaker 12: She's not breathing.

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Speaker 9: She's not breathing. Okay, stand the pool. I can tell

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you how to help her. Okay, you're right by her now,

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all right. I want you to lay her flat on

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her back on the ground. Yep.

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Speaker 15: Remove any collows.

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Speaker 9: Okay, okay.

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Speaker 15: I need you to kneel next to her and her

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mom look in her mouth for any food or vomits.

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Speaker 9: Is there anything?

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Speaker 12: Is there anything in your blood?

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Speaker 9: Just blood?

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Speaker 1: Brittany isn't breathing. Her airway is filled with blood, and

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she has no pulse. The dispatcher talks Jordan through CPR,

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but she knows it might already be too late, and

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when Jordan rolls Brittany on her back, he notices something

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he cannot make sense of.

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Speaker 9: Did you think she did this herself?

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Speaker 12: No, she couldn't go.

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Speaker 15: She couldn't have done it herself. And there's no weapon.

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Speaker 12: Nearby, No no shot woo here.

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Speaker 9: You're inside with her, you're inside with her, Yes, I am.

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It might be a stam mood.

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Speaker 12: Yes, I'm not sure. There's piercing, there's swall piercing.

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Speaker 1: The dispatcher stays with him, guiding him, reassuring him, while

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also coordinating the incoming police units. She switches between comforting

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Jordan and delivering updates to officers racing towards the scene.

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Speaker 5: The address is five to one seven West Doughty five

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one seven West Doty Streets. It's apartment number one.

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Speaker 9: The lower flat.

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Speaker 5: The female is he and B and he's now saying

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that it could he has a stabbing wound rather than

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a gunsight.

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Speaker 1: Then she has to jump right back into the fray

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with Jordan.

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Speaker 9: Okay, no idea? Who might have done this?

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Speaker 12: Jow right, I have no idea I have no idea.

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Speaker 15: Okay, with no idea.

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Speaker 9: Can you feel or hear any breathing?

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Speaker 16: H No, I can't.

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Speaker 12: I chucked for a pulse and I can't see anything.

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Speaker 15: Okay, okay, just so you know, there's there's an ambulance

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on the way and the officers are on the way

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as well.

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Speaker 9: Okay.

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Speaker 1: She tells him help is coming, but in moments like this,

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seconds stretch into hours. Finally, officers arrive and usher Jordan

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inside thirty.

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Speaker 12: Fourteen hours and are inside.

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Speaker 15: The building isn't clear.

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Speaker 1: And she sends The police reach the apartment at one

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ten pm, less than two minutes after dispatch. They check

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on Jordan, then clear the house room by room upstairs

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and danced, making sure the attacker is still inside. Only

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then do they move toward Brittany. It was too late

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to help her. The officers informed dispatch that the victim

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was deceased and the call became a homicide investigation. When

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detectives arrived at the scene, they were confused. There was

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forced entry, but nothing was stolen. Brittany most likely was

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working on her computer filing out federal grant forms when

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someone interrupted her. Her desk was messy with tax documents

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from the doorway of their bedroom. Detectives saw blood on

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the bed and the floor. Further checking revealed her cell phone.

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The battery was missing and it looked like someone had

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deliberately damaged it. They found it hidden under other garbage

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in the trash can. Who would want a twenty one

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year old microbiology student dead?

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Speaker 15: And why?

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Speaker 1: It was a broad daylight murder with no clear motive,

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and it would take twelve years for Madison police to

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uncover the truth. The midday murder of their only daughter

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had a devastating effect on the Zimmermans. They wouldn't see

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her graduate or get married. She would never have a career,

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a family, or a life. The date of her death

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would replace her birthday for her parents, and they would

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spend the next twelve telve years fighting for justice for Brittany.

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Her fiance Jordan, found her lifeless body on their bedroom

283
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floor and called nine one one. The police made a

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mad dash to the crime scene. When it was determined

285
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that Brittany was deceased, the investigation started. The entire street

286
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from intersection to intersection was cordoned off. Officers secured the scene.

287
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They started to make contact with the neighbors and left

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dash cams running to capture anyone walking in the area.

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Jordan had just seen her at eleven thirty. What could

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have happened in the last hour and a half. They

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hoped whoever killed her was still in the area, so

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they started canvassing quickly. Dispatch uncovered some investigation that might

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have been related.

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Speaker 9: Police inspire.

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Speaker 16: I had been calling to report a suspicious incident that

296
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just happened at my house because I thought I should

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00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:01,960
someone just in case something happened.

298
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Speaker 9: What was the incident?

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Speaker 16: Some guy walked into my house and was just opened

300
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our door and came in and was asking me for money,

301
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and he came up our stairs.

302
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Speaker 9: Okay, and one how long ago?

303
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Speaker 16: This is about maybe ten minutes top.

304
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Speaker 1: The caller lived on West Washington Avenue, two blocks away

305
00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:29,880
and a straight shot down an alley from Britney's apartment

306
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at Dodie Street.

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Speaker 9: Okay, and you don't know whose person was, No, I

308
00:18:33,839 --> 00:18:34,279
have no idea.

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00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:35,799
Speaker 16: He said that him and his wife had a flat

310
00:18:35,839 --> 00:18:38,799
tire on East Washington ab and that he needed forty

311
00:18:38,799 --> 00:18:41,799
dollars to buy a tire. Okay, did he walk into

312
00:18:41,839 --> 00:18:44,599
your apartment? Because he walked into our house and came

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00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:45,200
up this Sperry.

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Speaker 1: Okay, the possibility that this man with a flat tire

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00:18:49,039 --> 00:18:52,839
could be involved couldn't be overlooked with no idea who

316
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,640
killed Britney. Anyone was a possible suspect, especially a middle

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00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,400
aged man going from door to door asking for money

318
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:01,599
for unison.

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Speaker 5: This channel, this is really just information for you. I

320
00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:06,400
don't know if it has anything to do with your

321
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,200
call or not. Five to five West Washington Avenue, five

322
00:19:10,279 --> 00:19:14,359
to five Westwah or Collar there says that about ten

323
00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:18,200
minutes ago, a bleep stranger washed under her house without

324
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,039
any permission, answer for money for a plant fire, white male, fifties,

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00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,559
gray hair, gray t shirts, red sweatshirt tied around his waist.

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00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:31,039
Speaker 1: That call would give a new theory on who killed Brittany.

327
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:35,680
While she was an extraordinary person, her life was otherwise

328
00:19:35,759 --> 00:19:41,039
rather unremarkable. Aside from her academic achievements, she didn't have

329
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,400
enemies wanting revenge or jealous friends. She didn't know anyone

330
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:50,440
money and didn't have any to steal. She hadn't wronged

331
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anyone in any serious way. But considering the other nine

332
00:19:54,559 --> 00:19:57,359
to one one calls in the area, the idea that

333
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,240
the murderer was committed by a stranger at rain them

334
00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:05,920
became very likely. Then there was another nine one one call.

335
00:20:06,839 --> 00:20:11,039
Speaker 12: Nine one one was the interesting emergency, Sorry an emergency.

336
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,279
I don't know if you can transfer me to a

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00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,839
non emergency liner if I should.

338
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Speaker 9: Tell you it's just fine. What's the problem.

339
00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:21,079
Speaker 12: My neighbors directed me across the street. There are some

340
00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,279
kind of old men I think, drinking from a bag,

341
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,160
sitting on the porch and looking in the windows, and

342
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:29,920
I was just worried that there may be a ventilia,

343
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,880
burglary or something that among those lines.

344
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,440
Speaker 1: This caller was a college student like Brittany and Jordan.

345
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He was waiting for the bus to take him to

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school when he noticed some suspicious activity.

347
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Speaker 9: How many of how many people were there?

348
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Speaker 12: Just two older men. I figure they're just taking a

349
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break or something, but it was the word They were

350
00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,559
looking at the mailbox or something like that too.

351
00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,519
Speaker 1: To be clear, this call was about two other men,

352
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not the man with the flat tire begging for money.

353
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These two men were sharing a drink from a paper

354
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bag while looking through windows and rifling through mailboxes. It

355
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:12,480
was certainly suspicious, and with the early theory that a

356
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,359
stranger murdered Brittany. It was even more so. But to

357
00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,880
understand the obstacles in the investigation into Brittany's death, you

358
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,440
have to know about the neighborhood she lived in. She

359
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:28,000
lived on West Dote Street, just off South Bassett Street,

360
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:33,720
in the Bassett neighborhood. Is it Bassett or Bassett? I

361
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,039
guess it's the same difference between Boudet and Buddett. Who

362
00:21:37,039 --> 00:21:40,920
gives a shit? This area was sometimes called the student

363
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,559
Triangle because of the proximity to the university campus only

364
00:21:45,079 --> 00:21:48,799
six blocks away. The neighborhood was a mix of students

365
00:21:48,799 --> 00:21:53,480
and apartments, families and small houses, and a few long term,

366
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:59,759
low income tenants oh in transient foot traffic. The downtown

367
00:21:59,799 --> 00:22:04,440
air had homeless shelters, dropping shelters, and a bus depot

368
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with a mix of college students and transients. The area

369
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,759
had a high call volume, so the police were there

370
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:16,000
often at the same time. There were roughly fourteen hundred

371
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,279
service calls a year, and one third of those were

372
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for panhandling and other loitering complaints. So when all the

373
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,640
evidence at the scene of the crime pointed to a

374
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,480
random person murdering Brittany, the police knew they had a

375
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difficult investigation on their hands, but the man with the

376
00:22:35,039 --> 00:22:39,240
flats hire entering people's homes and invited was their first

377
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:40,319
possible lead.

378
00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:41,680
Speaker 12: What were the.

379
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,079
Speaker 18: Time frames of when we called and when we had

380
00:22:45,079 --> 00:22:46,599
done then called the by one Fellar.

381
00:22:47,799 --> 00:22:50,799
Speaker 5: It was about a five minute last between nicolls, so

382
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,720
it checks be about fifteen al together, about fifteen altogether.

383
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 18: Yeah, that description for second detailers. I want you at

384
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,920
check in the area. I want to accompany you to

385
00:23:00,039 --> 00:23:02,599
it on the day's tree to check around that area

386
00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:05,880
and manage it in a three, four or five block area.

387
00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:09,119
Circle the area looking for that party. Once he's done

388
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,720
doing that, and that I need Holth to respond down

389
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:13,039
to Masters.

390
00:23:12,839 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: And Dy's creations and police work coincidences are rare, so

391
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,519
the idea of a man walking into someone's home within

392
00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:25,160
fifteen minutes of a home invasion and murder set off

393
00:23:25,319 --> 00:23:29,359
alarm belts. The police would quickly locate the man with

394
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,599
the flat tire. He was known to the department as

395
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:38,599
an active panhandler. David Call would walk around the neighborhood

396
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,480
asking people for money at random, with some made up

397
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:47,440
story to illicit sympathy. Turns out this homeless guy had

398
00:23:47,519 --> 00:23:53,559
exhausted his entire friends and family list for help. They

399
00:23:53,599 --> 00:23:57,279
had all had enough of them and said no thanks,

400
00:23:57,319 --> 00:24:01,119
and now society was left to deal with them. By

401
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:05,000
the time they had an official interview, he was already

402
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,960
in jail on a probation violation.

403
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: Fifth on WI failure to register because I was homeless

404
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,000
at the time, address and borrow money or.

405
00:24:16,079 --> 00:24:17,200
Speaker 3: Falls free Johnsons.

406
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 19: Okay, all right, and that was good to have to

407
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,640
do with the houses downtown.

408
00:24:20,759 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 3: That's kind of thing.

409
00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:23,759
Speaker 9: No, that was.

410
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,559
Speaker 3: That was borrowed money from businesses and stuff. Okay, that's

411
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,400
him the same thing paying him. Oh okay, all right,

412
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:33,359
all right.

413
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 1: Cal had a lengthy criminal record, stretching over sixteen years.

414
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,279
At this point, he had a couple of counts of

415
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,920
manufacturing and delivering a controlled substance in ninety two. In

416
00:24:46,039 --> 00:24:48,839
ninety three, he was charged with theft and second degree

417
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,519
sexual assault. In two thousand and two, he was charged

418
00:24:52,559 --> 00:24:56,039
with possession of THHC. In two thousand and six, he

419
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,880
was charged with failure to register as a sex offender.

420
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,240
Are you aust yet because it's getting old anyway. A

421
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,880
few days after that, he was charged with his fifth

422
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:13,160
ow I or operating a motor vehicle while intoxicated. That

423
00:25:13,319 --> 00:25:17,440
kills people, you know. But after learning about his history

424
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,920
and talking to his parole officer, they didn't see him

425
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,680
as a suspect. They saw him as a source for

426
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:26,240
some reason.

427
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 19: Second, Wisa and I are investigated in a number of

428
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,400
different things, okay, and we're not We're not here to

429
00:25:32,599 --> 00:25:35,559
jamming up any further than the thing which you already are.

430
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:36,039
Speaker 15: Okay.

431
00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 3: That's not our that's not our purpose in any life.

432
00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:42,519
And with this interview, okay, I already know you know,

433
00:25:42,559 --> 00:25:45,279
I know about all the downtown stuff, you know, going

434
00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:46,359
to the houses.

435
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,319
Speaker 19: And that kind of thing, as well as like I said,

436
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:52,880
I talk to your pels morning says you've always been decent,

437
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,559
you know, with him, and that he didn't expect and

438
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,680
he would have any difficulties talking to you today.

439
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 3: And I don't have any reason to believe you know

440
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:01,200
that you're involved than anything. Right now, I think that

441
00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:03,480
maybe you might be a witness to some things that

442
00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:04,359
you can help us out with.

443
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: David Call shifted in a seat with a blank expression.

444
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,279
He was forty two, but his white stubble beard and

445
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,200
quickly graying hair made him look older than he was.

446
00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,039
His receding hairline didn't help matters either. He was of

447
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,519
average height, but a little on the thin side. He

448
00:26:24,599 --> 00:26:27,519
grew up on his parents dairy farm and considered himself

449
00:26:27,559 --> 00:26:31,920
a farmer, but he never graduated high school, and since

450
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:35,279
nineteen ninety two, when he was twenty six, he'd been

451
00:26:35,319 --> 00:26:38,079
in trouble with the law and spent several stints in prison.

452
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:41,319
It didn't sound like he was much of a farmer,

453
00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:45,559
but he was a perfect informant.

454
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 19: What I'd like to do, if it's okay with you,

455
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,079
just use some photographs and you tell me if you

456
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,119
know these people and how you know them. About that, okay,

457
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,119
we're talking about we're talking about the people that were

458
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:59,359
doing you know, we're all in the street like you were,

459
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,720
you know, maybe with some scams, maybe going into houses

460
00:27:02,799 --> 00:27:03,559
and things like that.

461
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: Over the course of time, he looked at each picture

462
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,799
the officers showed him. They were all people who frequented

463
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:15,359
the area around Brittany's home. Some he recognized but didn't

464
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,359
know or couldn't place. Most he didn't know at all.

465
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,039
Speaker 3: Next quarographing number nine zero zero.

466
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 19: Nine six again, nine zero zero six ninety six.

467
00:27:32,559 --> 00:27:36,799
Speaker 3: That's don I know I heard, Yeah, where did you where?

468
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 12: You know?

469
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,279
Speaker 3: Don from All was walking around the other day, right

470
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,240
when when the police contacted you, or before before the

471
00:27:46,319 --> 00:27:49,400
police attacked you. Okay, where he probably from? Mike eleven?

472
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:51,359
Tell about three o'clock I was.

473
00:27:53,799 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: Finally he recognized some He said that the day Brittany

474
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,759
was murdered, he was with a woman named Down. Together,

475
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,279
they teamed up and started going door to door asking

476
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,640
for money. The police had already talked to Don, but

477
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,759
she couldn't or wouldn't cooperate, which was fine because police

478
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:14,839
were more interested in the other two men they crossed

479
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:16,799
paths with that day.

480
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,039
Speaker 3: Can you describe me a couple of guys that were

481
00:28:20,079 --> 00:28:25,599
with her? Those were supposedly Mitchell or Michael and then Hank.

482
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,599
Speaker 19: So Mitchell or Michael and Hank, and those are the

483
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,440
guys that gave him the scription. Okay, Yeah, can you

484
00:28:35,039 --> 00:28:37,160
just in one more time for us? Can you describe

485
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:38,319
Mitchell or Michael for us?

486
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,559
Speaker 2: Mitchell has long gone hair, ponytail is tied back, He's

487
00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:44,240
got a scot.

488
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,599
Speaker 3: On her right cheek, and Kurt Douglass dimple right here.

489
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,759
Speaker 19: Okay, And so then can you describe Hank to us?

490
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:58,720
Hank is black Okay, short, real short.

491
00:28:58,559 --> 00:29:01,319
Speaker 2: Curly hairs either. Guy, Like, it's not even like an

492
00:29:01,359 --> 00:29:05,279
afrom me. It's you know, short and curly, but it's

493
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:06,480
like spaces in between it.

494
00:29:06,799 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 3: Okay. I think it's all Finnan or brilliant. Okay.

495
00:29:13,519 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 1: The reason they were so interested in these two men

496
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:19,119
was that while calls m O was to ask for

497
00:29:19,279 --> 00:29:23,279
money for a flat tire, they had other methods.

498
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,200
Speaker 3: Those guys, I'm for open windows, climbing too, and stuff

499
00:29:27,319 --> 00:29:29,440
like that. It's like in an alley they're walking between

500
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,359
two houses of their windows open and behind them as

501
00:29:32,359 --> 00:29:36,200
they're kind of scam okay, so just looking for open windows, open.

502
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: Windows, knocking on doors and I don't know what there

503
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:40,720
Also was mine was, like I say, for a flat tire.

504
00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:44,519
But I remember earlier that day, me and Don walked on.

505
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: You know, it was door here the street over there

506
00:29:46,519 --> 00:29:47,000
was like two.

507
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,039
Speaker 2: Different girls down there, and I remember her telling them

508
00:29:50,079 --> 00:29:52,359
guys because I got my forty.

509
00:29:52,079 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: Dollars either girl, but the girl had a lot of money.

510
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,400
And I remember she's telling them, guys such and such

511
00:29:58,599 --> 00:29:59,279
dress down there.

512
00:29:59,359 --> 00:29:59,799
Speaker 9: They got more.

513
00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:04,319
Speaker 1: Remember, Carl said. The other two men were in the

514
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,680
habit of burgling people. They would knock on the door

515
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,160
and if no one answered, look for open windows. Once inside,

516
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:18,839
they would steal everything worth money, laptops, cameras, cash, anything.

517
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,160
The police started to wonder if these two men entered

518
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,599
Brittany's home without realizing she was inside, and then the

519
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:27,519
worst happened.

520
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 2: Don told him on the guys and right away, let's

521
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,119
go back and rob I ain't in and rob nobody

522
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,279
else and scamming. I mean, they wanted to go back

523
00:30:36,319 --> 00:30:38,599
to rob somebo. I was like, I ain't in that

524
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:41,720
ship there. You Don's like, man, she had like two

525
00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:42,880
three hundred dollars more.

526
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 3: You know, let mean, let's try to do this.

527
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:48,079
Speaker 2: But I know when I left, the dumb guys you're

528
00:30:48,119 --> 00:30:50,000
gonna go back down and see if they can get

529
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:53,359
some money. Okay, well that's when I knew I better

530
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,319
hear it because they were being stupid to go back

531
00:30:55,359 --> 00:30:55,759
in the same.

532
00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: Absolutely, he was incredibly forthcoming, sharing everything he did and

533
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,759
everywhere he went that day. He even openly admitted to

534
00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:06,480
any petty crimes he committed.

535
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 3: Now I'm being charged to this, No, not not the

536
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:12,839
things that we're talking about here today.

537
00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 19: Okay, what I'm trying to do is place you in

538
00:31:15,119 --> 00:31:18,880
particular locations at particular times and trying to help your

539
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,720
memory so that we can try to find out who

540
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:26,400
was in certain areas in that downtown area at different times. Okay, No,

541
00:31:26,559 --> 00:31:28,640
I'm not like I said, I didn't come here to data,

542
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:29,119
you know.

543
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: To hanging out with that.

544
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 19: And certainly you've never done anything in a violent way

545
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,640
and said to these people, there's no evidence of that whatsoever.

546
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:39,119
And that's what that's sort of why we're here talking

547
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,319
to you today, because we know that violence is not

548
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,720
your Violence isn't your way to go ahead and get money.

549
00:31:44,759 --> 00:31:46,720
You're being successful enough on your own.

550
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: Carl had an easy going demeanor with detectives. He was

551
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,559
extremely polite, and even all the people he panhandled from

552
00:31:57,759 --> 00:32:01,680
described them as such. He reviewed all the pictures the

553
00:32:01,799 --> 00:32:05,920
police provided and helped create a timeline of his movements

554
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:08,880
that day to determine where other transients were.

555
00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:12,119
Speaker 19: And when you know you've been honest, honest with us

556
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,640
here today, I mean you're certainly not you're certainly.

557
00:32:14,359 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: Not not a suspect in any of those cases.

558
00:32:17,799 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 19: Well, we'll we'll try to drum up Mitchell and Hank

559
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,279
and if you hear anything in here when you get

560
00:32:24,319 --> 00:32:27,240
back into population, about other people that might know them

561
00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:29,119
or whatever, and you could give us give us a

562
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:29,640
sip on that.

563
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,039
Speaker 1: The interview ended with Call providing a buckle swap for

564
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:39,119
DNA testing. The detectives left with a new direction, finding

565
00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:43,680
Mitchell or Mark the man with the ponytail, and the

566
00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:48,240
Kurt Douglas dimple and Hank the black guy with thinning hair.

567
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,319
They would search for months with no luck. If these

568
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:58,440
guys were responsible, they were lying low. April faded and

569
00:32:58,599 --> 00:33:03,039
May turned into June before detectives realized it was July.

570
00:33:04,359 --> 00:33:08,480
In September, when there was still no arrest, Brittany's mother

571
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:11,440
even used money set aside for her wedding in Hawaii

572
00:33:12,319 --> 00:33:16,240
to help fund a reward. During that time, a crime

573
00:33:16,359 --> 00:33:20,680
lab was processing DNA from the scene. Now, this is

574
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:23,640
two thousand and eight, when DNA testing wasn't as advanced

575
00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,240
as it is today. The samples taken from Brittany's crime

576
00:33:27,279 --> 00:33:31,400
scene were mixed, meaning they included two or more DNA profiles.

577
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,039
Even so, they quickly found a match. The bad news

578
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,079
was that it matched a DNA profile from an unsolved

579
00:33:39,119 --> 00:33:42,880
burglary at the Blue Moon Bar and Grill back in June.

580
00:33:44,039 --> 00:33:47,200
A link to another unsolved crime didn't help, and it

581
00:33:47,319 --> 00:33:49,920
only made the theory of a transient stranger committing the

582
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,319
murder even stronger. So they went back to talk to

583
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:56,799
Call again.

584
00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:00,039
Speaker 20: Nothing has changed to I can't be I can't be

585
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,759
more explicit with you, Okay, We're we are not considering

586
00:34:03,799 --> 00:34:06,079
any other charges against you, no matter what you'd tell me,

587
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,000
tell me and Sam today in this interview.

588
00:34:08,039 --> 00:34:10,679
Speaker 3: Regarding the personal stuff about what you were doing, you

589
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,480
don't care about that, okay. Our focus is who killed Britney.

590
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:19,199
Speaker 9: I thought she caught again that was on that Marina one.

591
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,639
The guy that was I'm sure that got killed.

592
00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: Like in January, we did catch somebody was saying something

593
00:34:25,519 --> 00:34:27,440
on the news or something already caught.

594
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 9: The guy or something that guy this is the girl

595
00:34:30,159 --> 00:34:32,039
and I thought they had DNA.

596
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 3: Too, or something on a knife or something that was

597
00:34:35,519 --> 00:34:37,679
from the marine O case. The guy they got killed

598
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:39,400
back in January, a couple of months before the.

599
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 2: One we're working out, okay, because they said they also

600
00:34:41,519 --> 00:34:44,960
fall on DNA or whatever and supposedly arrested somebody.

601
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was curt in the cases.

602
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 1: Carl seemed even more eager to talk with detectives than

603
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,639
last time. He casually talked about the case, even cracking jokes.

604
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:58,840
He'd been in jail for a few months by now.

605
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,400
He we had plenty of time to think about that

606
00:35:01,559 --> 00:35:03,239
day to remember.

607
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 3: You were the bid contains.

608
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 20: Do you remember, with help me telling you, Marty, do

609
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,719
you remember seeing the house that when you lived in?

610
00:35:10,119 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, on TV at some point earlier that day or

611
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,800
any of the time that he knocked at that door.

612
00:35:15,559 --> 00:35:19,079
Speaker 20: I have no idea, Okay, no recolection because I was

613
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:21,920
bouncing from the street to street, house to house. Do

614
00:35:22,039 --> 00:35:24,440
you remember how many houses on her street that day

615
00:35:24,559 --> 00:35:27,320
day you might have made contact, probably almost all of

616
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,199
them out of all of them, do you have any

617
00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,159
recollection how many you might have had people hold that

618
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:34,840
came to the door when you knocked or ran.

619
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,079
Speaker 3: There wasn't a whole lot of people home.

620
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: The conversation turned to Hank and the other guy. Detectives

621
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,119
brought in a new set of photos to see if

622
00:35:44,199 --> 00:35:49,159
Carl recognized any of them. He didn't. Then the conversation

623
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:50,119
turned to Dawn.

624
00:35:51,039 --> 00:35:52,320
Speaker 3: Is she an't help at all?

625
00:35:54,559 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 9: I mean, it's dizzy, I know that, but I mean,

626
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:58,840
what can we use it against her to get her

627
00:35:58,880 --> 00:35:59,639
to be more corporate.

628
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 3: If she wasn't, I don't know anything that you have

629
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:09,760
to have something charges or something on the car. There's

630
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:11,559
no chance that hank him into learn that book.

631
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:18,079
Speaker 2: No, No, I know their faces yet. Sure I tell

632
00:36:18,119 --> 00:36:23,079
you because I'd rather have you talk to him. That

633
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,119
they did do so much that, Like I say, they

634
00:36:25,159 --> 00:36:27,679
did mention about Robin a few people at night.

635
00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:33,599
Speaker 1: Point strangely engaged Paul was asking more questions than the detectives.

636
00:36:34,559 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 9: Was she raped at all?

637
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:41,679
Speaker 3: I can't tell you that I want to. I just

638
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,719
wondered any instincts on that, and I just was wondering

639
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,559
if she was raped or not. Just something we can't

640
00:36:48,559 --> 00:36:52,079
think about. But you understand, we keep a lot, try

641
00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:53,559
to keep a lot of information.

642
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:56,280
Speaker 2: Because I figured that's another reason why they picked me

643
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,079
up too, because I had a sexual assault.

644
00:36:59,519 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 3: Do you guys have anything at all?

645
00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 20: I mean, yeah, we've got.

646
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 3: A bunch of stuff working and every day new stuff

647
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:07,559
comes in.

648
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:08,599
Speaker 21: But still.

649
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 3: Do you think it was Hank?

650
00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 9: And until we can find them and talk to them,

651
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,079
you can't eliminatum.

652
00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: So that's what we need to find out where they are.

653
00:37:18,079 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: If you can the almost people on the sketches identified

654
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,480
them and so that they've seen them, because I mean,

655
00:37:25,519 --> 00:37:27,920
if I coummated a murder, I sure get out of Madison,

656
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,599
Madison small. I mean I wouldn't want to stick around

657
00:37:31,639 --> 00:37:36,440
to Madison. Yeah, I mean I'd take off. I mean,

658
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:37,960
if I would have killed her, I would have been gone.

659
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,559
You guys have never found me, right, I ever went

660
00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:41,400
back to my barment.

661
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:42,639
Speaker 3: I mean that's glad to right.

662
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

663
00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:47,039
Speaker 1: While the police continued their search for the two mystery men,

664
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,519
the public wanted answers. They needed to know that they

665
00:37:51,559 --> 00:37:55,039
were safe in their own homes. That's when the public

666
00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:59,840
backlash started. The news media started requesting public records, but

667
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,280
when the requests were fulfilled, some records were withheld, others delayed,

668
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:10,199
and most were redacted. The news media smelled something fishy

669
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,639
and pushed back, requesting more and more records. They requested

670
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,320
nine to one one call logs, dispatch records, audio recordings,

671
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,480
dispatcher notes, and even internal reviews or audits related to

672
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,119
the nine to one one call center. When that too, failed,

673
00:38:27,079 --> 00:38:28,000
they filed suit.

674
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:34,639
Speaker 22: There were substantial revelations that brought into the public domain

675
00:38:35,039 --> 00:38:36,480
as a result of this lawsuit.

676
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: The public was in fear and suddenly realized the police

677
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:45,519
were withholding things from them. What revelations were made public,

678
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:50,079
you might be asking, well settling. The lawsuit forced the

679
00:38:50,119 --> 00:38:52,760
city to release another nine one one.

680
00:38:52,679 --> 00:38:58,440
Speaker 22: Call, including the fact that the tape did contain sounds

681
00:38:58,519 --> 00:39:00,239
of a struggle and screen.

682
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: The nine when one call had been marked as incomplete

683
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:08,800
or misdialed. In other words, the operator didn't hear anyone

684
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,840
on the line, but the call in question came from

685
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:13,920
Brittany's home one.

686
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:15,679
Speaker 9: What's the address to the emergency?

687
00:39:18,519 --> 00:39:18,719
Speaker 23: Hello?

688
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:19,559
Speaker 9: Nine one one.

689
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: The police were aware of this very early on, but

690
00:39:24,559 --> 00:39:27,719
didn't inform the public. They said the state of the

691
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,760
phone systems at the E nine to one one center

692
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,880
made it so that the operator did not hear the screen.

693
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,159
It was only after they pulled the recording that they

694
00:39:37,280 --> 00:40:02,039
noticed in the recording it was clearly a woman screaming.

695
00:40:03,119 --> 00:40:06,440
Then they heard what sounded like someone saying stop, along

696
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,599
with the sounds of what could only be an assault.

697
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:16,039
Then the line disconnected per protocol. The operator called the

698
00:40:16,159 --> 00:40:17,079
number back.

699
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,719
Speaker 9: Hello, hiding coming in one one calling your phone? Called up?

700
00:40:28,119 --> 00:40:29,360
Were you just using the phone?

701
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:30,559
Speaker 12: Yeah?

702
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,920
Speaker 15: Okayne?

703
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 12: Oh we might have read that's a red button.

704
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 15: Yeah yeah, okay, all right, we just.

705
00:40:43,519 --> 00:40:44,079
Speaker 9: Had to check in.

706
00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 15: Yeah, okay, thanks.

707
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: But this forced transparency caused outrage. Not only were two

708
00:40:54,519 --> 00:40:56,960
men on the recording, but Brittany called nine one one

709
00:40:57,079 --> 00:41:02,760
nearly an hour before her fiancee, Jordan Founder. This revelation

710
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:06,360
would lead to the Zimmermans filing a wrongful death lawsuit

711
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,159
against the city in two thousand and nine. They would

712
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:12,280
settle the suit the following year and put all the

713
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:16,719
money towards a scholarship fund in Brittany's name. They said

714
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,320
it wasn't about the money, it was about not letting

715
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:22,559
this happen to any one else. The E nine one

716
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:26,840
one Center would undergo many equipment upgrades and dispatcher training,

717
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,360
a lot of covering your ass after the damage is done.

718
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,280
But while the police were dodging the public outrage, they

719
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,079
received an anonymous letter in late two thousand and nine.

720
00:41:40,159 --> 00:41:45,039
The letter was from the Fox Lake Correctional Facility. It

721
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:47,800
claimed an inmate with the initials of f R and

722
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:53,119
his friends killed Brittany. The detectives investigated this anonymous tip,

723
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:57,159
but nothing came out of it. Around this time, the

724
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,159
case also lost its first lead detective who transferred out

725
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:05,199
of the department. With his departure, the next detective would

726
00:42:05,199 --> 00:42:10,199
have to start all over again. The new detective revisited

727
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,480
all the evidence, including the DNA. They resubmitted the samples,

728
00:42:14,559 --> 00:42:19,480
and they reprocessed them. By twenty eleven, the mixed samples

729
00:42:19,519 --> 00:42:23,880
were degraded, but the technology had improved. When they got

730
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,719
the results back, they knew they needed to speak with

731
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,000
David call yet again.

732
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,199
Speaker 9: You were going door to door.

733
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 24: In Brittany's neighborhood that day, right, yeah, okay, me and

734
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,599
Don and then other guys.

735
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:40,079
Speaker 3: Other guys meaning these two guys were talking about. Okay,

736
00:42:41,559 --> 00:42:44,159
the something that is I mentioned you some evidence that

737
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:44,719
came up.

738
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 20: As you can.

739
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:50,679
Speaker 3: Imagine the house we had the crimeline process, everything.

740
00:42:52,000 --> 00:43:00,679
Speaker 20: DNA was developed, some things that Brittany had at the

741
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:01,599
time she was killed.

742
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 3: And that's the main reason detect Lukin I.

743
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 15: Wanted to sit on and talk to you today.

744
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:11,079
Speaker 2: That DNA is consistent with.

745
00:43:11,199 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 9: Your DNA.

746
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,679
Speaker 3: And that was just developed recently. Can you explain why

747
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:22,800
your DNA would be on in our house even id no.

748
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,119
Speaker 2: Idea unless it was one of the houses that we

749
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:26,639
were breaking into that day.

750
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:31,039
Speaker 20: How many houses did you break into well, I mean.

751
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 2: Them guys like I see we go in there, we

752
00:43:33,159 --> 00:43:38,199
break in, you know, I'll go through stuff, ving jury laptops.

753
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,079
Speaker 16: Okay.

754
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:44,039
Speaker 1: While Call's story had been consistent for years, this time

755
00:43:44,119 --> 00:43:47,639
he revealed more. He had been with two other men

756
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:52,280
helping him burgle homes for items to sell. He offered

757
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,119
this up as a possible explanation to how his DNA

758
00:43:55,239 --> 00:43:57,320
could have even ended up at Brittany's house.

759
00:43:58,079 --> 00:43:59,079
Speaker 16: The DNA that we have.

760
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 20: Could not have gotten there by you being in simply

761
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:03,079
her apartments.

762
00:44:03,159 --> 00:44:04,679
Speaker 9: It would have been it's there.

763
00:44:04,599 --> 00:44:07,199
Speaker 15: Because he touched her, she touched you.

764
00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 3: Okay, that's what I'm saying to you. Well, am I

765
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:13,039
being charge with anything yet?

766
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 4: No?

767
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:14,880
Speaker 15: So absolutely not.

768
00:44:15,639 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 3: Why I mean.

769
00:44:18,519 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 15: I don't know what's the stadium.

770
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:23,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you know I cooperated all the way to

771
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,400
those you guys. Yeah, and we appreciate that, and that's

772
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,320
why that's why we have you.

773
00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 16: To come back.

774
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,599
Speaker 3: No, you say you got being a from me, I mean.

775
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 15: We're trying to figure that out.

776
00:44:33,639 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 3: Yeah.

777
00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 16: Yeah, so I best talked to the lawyer.

778
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 19: I mean when you approached me, So the only way

779
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,360
to get there is if I touched her or something.

780
00:44:43,199 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 3: So that's pretty fucked up right there. I mean, whether

781
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:47,960
I ship.

782
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,599
Speaker 2: Her hand that day, Like I say, I remember her

783
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,880
now because of the pictures in the faces, you.

784
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:55,760
Speaker 9: Know what I mean, and then being on the news.

785
00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:01,039
Speaker 25: But at that day when everything happened, I remember that

786
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:03,280
was fun of the people that obed.

787
00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 1: He said, maybe he did ask Brittany for money that day,

788
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:11,199
but he didn't recall it. If he did, maybe he

789
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,719
shook her hand or gave her a hug. But after

790
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:19,840
that he thought it wise to consult a lawyer. The

791
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,679
reason he wasn't being charged then in there is that

792
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,079
police were hoping for a confession. The reprocessing of DNA

793
00:45:27,639 --> 00:45:32,199
didn't provide a match. Call wasn't a perfect match, but

794
00:45:32,599 --> 00:45:37,239
he couldn't be excluded either. Remember DNA samples were mixed

795
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,199
and degraded. This is the best the lab could do.

796
00:45:42,639 --> 00:45:46,280
The District attorney's office wouldn't prosecute with so little evidence

797
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,320
without a confession and call lawyering up. The case started

798
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:55,519
to stall. The next year, in twenty twelve, another detective

799
00:45:55,639 --> 00:46:00,920
took over the case. It continued to drift. In twenty fourteen,

800
00:46:01,519 --> 00:46:05,760
the department got a new chief. With the regime change,

801
00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:11,719
the department underwent restructuring twenty fifteen provided no new leads either.

802
00:46:13,039 --> 00:46:17,519
Then in twenty sixteen, a tip came in. A man

803
00:46:17,679 --> 00:46:21,519
named Skulls said that Call confessed to him while in prison.

804
00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 23: Together.

805
00:46:23,039 --> 00:46:26,199
Speaker 1: This would have cinched the conviction, except that Skulls was

806
00:46:26,280 --> 00:46:31,119
leveraging this information to obtain a pardon. Jail house snitches

807
00:46:31,199 --> 00:46:35,719
with a motive are rarely credible. This claim wasn't immediately

808
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:40,440
considered a reliable lead. It got stuck in internal administrative

809
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:45,320
channels before ever going to detectives. That same year, the

810
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,760
new detective met with Call. The interview lasted only two

811
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,679
and a half minutes before he politely shut it down.

812
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,199
Speaker 24: Day would be having a conversation with you.

813
00:46:57,559 --> 00:46:59,159
Speaker 3: We are now here for any reason that you.

814
00:46:59,159 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 24: Are currently here, but fortunately so we have to make

815
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,719
sure you understand that you have rights. Okay, I know

816
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,400
you had your right spread to you in the past.

817
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:10,920
You know how many times you had your right threads

818
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:13,960
to you in the past, and you had your right

819
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:16,039
spread to you in the basket She's.

820
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,159
Speaker 1: Done at the Sinner ran a few times is an understatement.

821
00:47:21,119 --> 00:47:23,360
Carl had spent the eight years since the death of

822
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,800
Brittany in and out of jail for various charges. He

823
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:32,519
knew the routine and with the lingering fear of DNA

824
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:36,880
and now the claim by Skulls call, wasn't willing to

825
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,800
cooperate having these.

826
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:40,679
Speaker 24: Rights in mind, you wish to talk to us now

827
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,239
rather than not.

828
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 3: But I'm Frey advised me not too.

829
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,679
Speaker 2: Okay, here's up here a week or two ago, and said,

830
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:49,880
don't talk anymore.

831
00:47:50,840 --> 00:47:53,199
Speaker 15: Okay, So there you go.

832
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 2: I've been cooperating, like I say, said the Geregle, just

833
00:47:58,239 --> 00:47:59,599
the ball that reviews and runner.

834
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 10: And then he asked me why and all Andrew's bold

835
00:48:04,599 --> 00:48:05,800
and I sent the letter.

836
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 15: I think it was.

837
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,519
Speaker 3: Detective Miller with Andrew sposed to call me a.

838
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:13,039
Speaker 2: Rat and throwing him out of the boss why he

839
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:13,840
was gonna.

840
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,119
Speaker 25: Try to make a deal with you guys or something?

841
00:48:18,039 --> 00:48:23,039
Football play so I whatever, I have a name talent.

842
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:27,559
He said, you just gotta pan on somebody and anybody

843
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:28,960
that you can get you to FID.

844
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,639
Speaker 3: So I'm done operating. Well, we are only englished in

845
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:39,039
the truth. I'll say that not to you, but in general.

846
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,159
Speaker 20: Yeah, and.

847
00:48:43,159 --> 00:48:47,360
Speaker 3: If you're right, okay, thank you very much, yep, thank you.

848
00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:51,800
Speaker 1: Another attempt at getting a confession from a man who

849
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:56,639
consistently claimed he wasn't involved. They always polite call chose

850
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,840
to remain silent. Twenty sixteen would have in twenty seventeen

851
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:06,760
would start with the new year came yet another new detective.

852
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,920
A full review of the case started yet again. But

853
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:15,679
before the claims of Andrew's skulls could be vetted or verified,

854
00:49:16,519 --> 00:49:21,159
he died in a motorcycle accident. By the time anyone

855
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,280
considered the tip a viable lead, he was already gone.

856
00:49:26,679 --> 00:49:30,599
This brought investigators to the tenth anniversary of Brittany's death

857
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,440
in twenty eighteen. Her family was still waiting for answers.

858
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:42,079
After ten years, the community had largely moved on. The

859
00:49:42,159 --> 00:49:45,239
case had survived longer than the people assigned to it.

860
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,280
What no one realized yet was that the piece of

861
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,239
evidence that would finally break the case had been sitting

862
00:49:53,280 --> 00:50:29,320
in a storage locker for nearly a decade. For years,

863
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,280
police had DNA, but not the kind that gives answers.

864
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:39,159
The samples from Britney's apartment were mixed or DNA was everywhere.

865
00:50:40,119 --> 00:50:43,159
Whatever the attacker left behind was tangled up with it.

866
00:50:44,119 --> 00:50:46,880
The testing could only rule people out, but it couldn't

867
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:53,039
point to exactly one person, David call could not be excluded,

868
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,760
It could not be charged either. As the years passed

869
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,280
and technology improved to actives kept trying, the results stayed

870
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:08,440
the same. Too much doubt, not enough proof, hell of

871
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,719
a system. Until one day in twenty twenty, something finally changed.

872
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,239
But before moving forward, police returned to the one man

873
00:51:20,159 --> 00:51:23,280
they had never been able to rule out. David Kall,

874
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,280
How much do you know about Britney?

875
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,239
Speaker 3: Not anything she said she was murdered.

876
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 10: She was a college kid, she loved animals, and she

877
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,800
wanted to go to med school was her major. She

878
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,639
was a little with the guys she was engaged to.

879
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,000
And I'm not trying to pull out her heart strengths here.

880
00:51:40,119 --> 00:51:43,639
And it's just not explaining to you why this is

881
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,119
a serious case that the massive police department in our

882
00:51:47,159 --> 00:51:48,400
office is kept looking at.

883
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:49,199
Speaker 11: For fourty years.

884
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,599
Speaker 10: Your story, you know, over time is different, okay, And

885
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,719
I think I don't know how much you remember of

886
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,280
different times you've said things, and it's changed a.

887
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 3: Little bit today, coun times I was drum right, and

888
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:07,159
I get that, ye, and your DNA does.

889
00:52:09,039 --> 00:52:12,360
Speaker 10: Based on how today's science books is telling us that

890
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,039
it's very likely that it's your DNA on Britney's sleeves,

891
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:18,920
as well as especially your genes.

892
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:24,119
Speaker 1: Okay, it had been twelve years since Britney's murder, and

893
00:52:24,280 --> 00:52:27,559
Carl had aged quite a bit. He was now fifty

894
00:52:27,599 --> 00:52:30,719
three years old and looked every bit of it. He

895
00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:33,840
had gained weight, and what little hair he had left

896
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:38,159
was even more gray. But he had been confronted with

897
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:42,199
DNA evidence before, so he remained calm as he heard

898
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:44,119
the detective out, do.

899
00:52:44,199 --> 00:52:45,840
Speaker 3: You know more about would happen to her?

900
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,360
Speaker 10: And what you're worried about is that you're the person

901
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,400
all the evidence points out, but you still.

902
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 3: Aren't the most cultorable person the drums would actually happened

903
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:54,480
to her.

904
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,079
Speaker 10: We're just trying to figure out if there are other

905
00:52:58,159 --> 00:53:02,199
people involved. Is there anything else you can think of

906
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:05,079
that you can tell us, or something that you haven't

907
00:53:05,119 --> 00:53:08,280
want to talk about that you feel some important that

908
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,000
we know about what happened, not just for Britney's sake,

909
00:53:11,079 --> 00:53:14,360
but for your own sake in terms of I was

910
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,800
there something happened, but I'm not the person who strangled

911
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,920
her and stamped her, you know, and she basically died

912
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:23,480
a really miserable death.

913
00:53:24,719 --> 00:53:29,199
Speaker 1: Detective Nail reminded Call that he had previously admitted he

914
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:33,440
was involved in burglaries that day. Call said he didn't

915
00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:37,239
remember that at all. Twelve years is a long time

916
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:41,000
to remember every detail of a story, he gave, especially

917
00:53:41,039 --> 00:53:45,280
when it's just a story and not something that actually happened.

918
00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:48,920
Speaker 26: If you guys had entered this place and maybe she

919
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:54,719
came home and found you, or you guys surprised her, again,

920
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:57,400
I need to I mean, that's what I need to know.

921
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wasn't in there, old money from her.

922
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:04,119
Speaker 3: I used their bathroom. I believe I had a glass

923
00:54:04,159 --> 00:54:07,280
of water, and then I left.

924
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 26: You do remember being in Britney's place?

925
00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:11,719
Speaker 14: Then?

926
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:12,039
Speaker 22: Yeah?

927
00:54:12,679 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

928
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:18,400
Speaker 1: Suddenly, for the first time, he remembered being in Britney's apartment.

929
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:22,559
He even remembered specific details about using the bathroom and

930
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:26,639
drinking a glass of water. Where was all this recollection

931
00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:28,440
all these years ago?

932
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:31,599
Speaker 3: Well, was that you getting a glass of water and

933
00:54:31,719 --> 00:54:36,039
using the bathroom? I'm not sure. I'm not sure how

934
00:54:36,119 --> 00:54:39,320
that gets your DNA on her hants.

935
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,679
Speaker 1: Even with flaws in his claims, pointed out, Call stuck

936
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:50,079
to it he wasn't involved in Britney's death, but the

937
00:54:50,199 --> 00:54:54,280
evidence said otherwise. After all these years, the detectives just

938
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,519
wanted to put the Zimmerman's mind at ease.

939
00:54:58,519 --> 00:55:01,239
Speaker 3: David, I gotta say, I'm sorry, but do you love

940
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:01,679
your mom?

941
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 19: That Brittany has a mom out there who loved her

942
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:07,280
so much, and she deserves to know even just a

943
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:07,880
little bit.

944
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 3: Of what you can tell us.

945
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: The detective told him they believed they had enough evidence

946
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,320
to implicate him, but they wanted to know whether anyone

947
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:21,679
else was involved. Call, though never cracked. He stuck to

948
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,239
his newest version of events. He never confessed to anything.

949
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,440
Speaker 27: On April tewod two thousand and eight, almost twelve years ago,

950
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:35,559
Britney Zimmerman was killed in her downtown Madison apartment. Today

951
00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:38,239
I can announce that criminal chargers have been filed in

952
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:38,760
her death.

953
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:40,920
Speaker 9: David Call, a.

954
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,760
Speaker 27: Fifty three year old male, has been charged in Dane

955
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,840
County Circuit Court with first degree intentional homicide, as a

956
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,559
party to a crime, and with a dangerous weapon. In

957
00:55:51,639 --> 00:55:55,079
the years that have passed, her case never went cold

958
00:55:55,760 --> 00:55:59,920
and was never anything but a priority for MPD investigated

959
00:56:00,199 --> 00:56:05,760
work tirelessly over the years, following leads, conducting hundreds of interviews,

960
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:11,639
processing countless pieces of evidence, and producing thousands of pages

961
00:56:11,679 --> 00:56:17,199
of police reports. Britney's parents, Kevin and Jean, have remained

962
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,239
heavily invested in the case over the years. They've met

963
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:25,920
regularly with MPD investigators and MPD leadership. They're asking for

964
00:56:26,039 --> 00:56:31,280
privacy during this difficult time. Call is currently incarcerated in

965
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,280
the Wisconsin prison system on unrelated charges. At some point

966
00:56:35,559 --> 00:56:39,440
he'll be transported to Dane County for proceedings in connection

967
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:44,239
with this case. This was truly a senseless crime, taking

968
00:56:44,320 --> 00:56:46,920
the life of a young woman with a bright future.

969
00:56:47,679 --> 00:56:50,639
Nothing we do can change that. But my hope is

970
00:56:50,679 --> 00:56:54,519
that what happens today will be a significant step in

971
00:56:54,599 --> 00:56:55,679
the process.

972
00:56:55,599 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 9: To do justice for Brittany and for her family.

973
00:56:59,480 --> 00:56:59,800
Speaker 3: Thank you.

974
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:06,159
Speaker 1: Finally, David Call was charged with first degree murder intentional homicide.

975
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:10,880
When Detective Nail took over Brittany Zimmerman's case in twenty seventeen,

976
00:57:11,679 --> 00:57:17,159
he didn't start with suspects. He started with boxes, evidence bags,

977
00:57:17,719 --> 00:57:23,159
old reports, things that hadn't been touched in years. He

978
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:27,440
didn't just review it, he reevaluated it. That's when he

979
00:57:27,559 --> 00:57:31,199
saw it. The anonymous letter from two thousand and nine

980
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:37,199
implicating an inmate by the initials f R. The contents

981
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:40,000
of the letter had been deemed unreliable and it was

982
00:57:40,079 --> 00:57:44,280
filed away in a box, but Detective Nail was thorough

983
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,000
and sent the letter and its envelope for DNA testing.

984
00:57:49,159 --> 00:57:52,920
The test results proved that the letter had been penned, licked,

985
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:58,719
and sealed by David Kall. The DNA on Brittany and

986
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:01,719
in her apartment wasn't a perfect match, but the DNA

987
00:58:02,159 --> 00:58:08,360
on the envelope was, without a doubt a match. The

988
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:12,719
Zimmermans were beside themselves with relief and the odd sense

989
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:15,880
that the emotions they had been dealing with for over

990
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,679
a decade would soon be gone.

991
00:58:19,239 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 28: And along with my parents have become emotionally comm scarred

992
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:29,079
and numb. My family have been waiting twelve years, eight

993
00:58:29,159 --> 00:58:34,280
months in one day or this decaided for us to

994
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:35,960
be able to see this individual.

995
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:41,519
Speaker 1: During Kaul's arraignment, he stood silent and a not guilty

996
00:58:41,599 --> 00:58:45,519
plea was entered on his behalf, But two years later,

997
00:58:45,639 --> 00:58:47,960
in twenty twenty two, he would agree to a plea

998
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:50,840
deal and plead guilty to.

999
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 21: Count one first degree intentional homicide.

1000
00:58:55,320 --> 00:59:00,199
Speaker 9: What is your plea guilty your honor are you Are you.

1001
00:59:00,599 --> 00:59:06,599
Speaker 21: Cleading guilty because you did intentionally cause the death of

1002
00:59:06,719 --> 00:59:07,679
Britney Zimmermann.

1003
00:59:08,639 --> 00:59:13,440
Speaker 1: Yes, you are call admitted he killed Brittany. He saw

1004
00:59:13,519 --> 00:59:16,320
her getting home from school and followed her breaking into

1005
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:20,920
her apartment. He likely gave the usual spiel about needing

1006
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:22,159
money for a flat tire.

1007
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 11: You know the.

1008
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 1: Excuses you hear just outside Panera bread from the homeless

1009
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,280
man who you're going to sign a Disney like storyline to.

1010
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,880
Whereas he's closer to a virus, a plague on society,

1011
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:40,559
something that rots it from within. But you do you,

1012
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,280
and you can be as generous as you like with

1013
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:48,320
your spare change. His family wasn't, his friends aren't if

1014
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:51,639
he has any. But you can go ahead and think

1015
00:59:51,679 --> 00:59:55,800
the best and and over a couple quarters, go right

1016
00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:00,679
ahead and enjoy. Brittany didn't fall for it, though, She

1017
01:00:01,039 --> 01:00:04,079
refused to give him any money and started to call

1018
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,079
nine to one one. That's when he snapped and attacked her.

1019
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:13,159
She fought back. Furniture was knocked around in the struggle,

1020
01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:17,639
so he wrapped his sweatshirt around her neck and pulled

1021
01:00:17,679 --> 01:00:20,239
it tight. He got up on top of her and

1022
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:24,519
stabbed her nineteen times in the chest. Then he fled

1023
01:00:24,719 --> 01:00:28,480
and spent the next fourteen years pretending it never happened.

1024
01:00:29,719 --> 01:00:33,639
Homeless people don't get homeless by accident. You know, It's

1025
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:40,760
rarely ever the sob story you hear on publicly supported airwaves. Anyway,

1026
01:00:40,840 --> 01:00:43,440
During the sentencing, Brittany's aunt addressed the.

1027
01:00:43,519 --> 01:00:49,119
Speaker 23: Court, we as a family have nothing but pain, We

1028
01:00:49,360 --> 01:00:52,639
have nothing but daily reminders, and we've had nothing but

1029
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:56,119
torture for fourteen and a half years while he did

1030
01:00:56,199 --> 01:01:00,800
his soul searching to decide to come clean. I think

1031
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:06,199
it takes a lot of audacity for someone in custody

1032
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,719
to request a transfer from the county jail to the

1033
01:01:09,800 --> 01:01:13,639
state prison because he thinks he will get better medical

1034
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:22,840
care after he has stripped my family of an incredibly loved,

1035
01:01:23,559 --> 01:01:28,320
an amazing human who wanted to do nothing but good

1036
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:29,239
things in this world.

1037
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:33,800
Speaker 1: Then David Call addressed the court and the family with

1038
01:01:33,920 --> 01:01:36,679
an apology that was anything but sincere.

1039
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:44,079
Speaker 2: I would like to apologize to everybody, specially Roman families.

1040
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:50,280
I took away Brittany's twenty one year old life.

1041
01:01:52,039 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 3: Family that she could have had.

1042
01:01:54,559 --> 01:01:55,599
Speaker 9: I just feel horrible.

1043
01:01:57,559 --> 01:01:57,840
Speaker 3: I was.

1044
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,679
Speaker 9: I was just I feel horrible, and I make scept

1045
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:05,840
some halishments coma.

1046
01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:10,039
Speaker 1: The apology fell short of giving the Zimmermans any comfort.

1047
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:14,320
David Call just seemed like an old man at the

1048
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:18,719
end of a rope. At the time, Call was seriously ill,

1049
01:02:19,719 --> 01:02:22,320
his years of hard living had finally caught up with him.

1050
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,280
His plea agreement seemed to be more self serving than

1051
01:02:26,280 --> 01:02:31,199
anything else. In prison, he would get better medical care,

1052
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:33,480
being the parasite he was.

1053
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,679
Speaker 17: You did finally take responsibility for you did, and you

1054
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:42,440
did plead guilty, and as I say that, you did

1055
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:44,679
spare her family and friends.

1056
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:45,639
Speaker 9: The agony is going.

1057
01:02:45,519 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 21: Through a public trial, but it does not negate the

1058
01:02:49,519 --> 01:02:51,840
years of your off uscation.

1059
01:02:52,840 --> 01:02:55,559
Speaker 9: And obstruction regarding the investigation.

1060
01:02:55,639 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 21: In this case, there is such a sense of us

1061
01:03:00,719 --> 01:03:05,000
and sadness and pain there, and the weed of almost

1062
01:03:05,079 --> 01:03:08,159
fifteen years to get to this moment was excruciating.

1063
01:03:09,079 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 9: It just was excruciating.

1064
01:03:11,679 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 21: So many lives have been tragically altered by your actions,

1065
01:03:16,639 --> 01:03:20,800
mister Call. I do conclude, mister Call, that you must

1066
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,840
be removed from society for the rest of your life.

1067
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:31,320
The magnitude of your crime demands it, your character demands it,

1068
01:03:31,480 --> 01:03:34,280
and the protection of the public demands it.

1069
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:38,079
Speaker 17: It is the just and right thing to do.

1070
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: David Call was sentenced to life in prison without the

1071
01:03:42,519 --> 01:03:48,400
possibility of release. After sentencing, the Zimmerman family held a

1072
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:49,199
press conference.

1073
01:03:50,280 --> 01:03:52,960
Speaker 11: We knew in between basically that he was going, that

1074
01:03:53,079 --> 01:03:57,559
he had asked to stay there forever. Our thoughts on

1075
01:03:57,679 --> 01:04:00,679
that were it was self serving. As Kim had said,

1076
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:04,559
he only did it so that his family and his

1077
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:09,039
mother specifically would not have to hear the gruesome details

1078
01:04:09,079 --> 01:04:11,760
of what he did to our daughter. That is our belief.

1079
01:04:12,039 --> 01:04:15,000
I guess I can't talk for him, but that is

1080
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:17,599
my belief and why he did what he did. I

1081
01:04:17,719 --> 01:04:21,079
don't think he, you know, had a come to Jesus moment.

1082
01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:23,719
Why he confessed all of a sudden fourteen and a

1083
01:04:23,719 --> 01:04:26,159
half year later and he had to get it off

1084
01:04:26,199 --> 01:04:28,880
his chest. I think he was scared to death. He knew,

1085
01:04:29,159 --> 01:04:31,559
like you know, it was said, the walls were closing in.

1086
01:04:32,039 --> 01:04:33,000
He had no choice.

1087
01:04:34,559 --> 01:04:37,280
Speaker 1: After years of suffering and wondering if their daughter's killer

1088
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:41,800
would ever be brought to justice, the Zimmermans could finally relax,

1089
01:04:43,119 --> 01:04:47,960
but in Brittany's death, they found their voice, a voice

1090
01:04:48,039 --> 01:04:50,599
to fight against injustice.

1091
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 4: What he did was.

1092
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:59,719
Speaker 11: Unspeakable and to not have the person responsible for that

1093
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:03,639
hind mars it was unacceptable to us. So we were

1094
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:07,599
willing and we did whatever we had to do. Our

1095
01:05:07,639 --> 01:05:11,519
family has been our number one supporters. I mean, my

1096
01:05:11,639 --> 01:05:14,159
sister's been it every single solitary thing with us.

1097
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 23: She is our speaker. This was every step the loss

1098
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:21,079
from to the nine one one center, etc. It was

1099
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:25,400
never about money. It was about doing the right thing

1100
01:05:26,039 --> 01:05:29,360
for everyone else. So it was to make sure that

1101
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:32,000
there wasn't another parent who was going to lose their.

1102
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,239
Speaker 11: Child to a dropped call.

1103
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,800
Speaker 23: It was it was always about trying to do the

1104
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:40,320
right thing, which was what Forney's entire life was about,

1105
01:05:40,599 --> 01:05:43,519
was doing the right thing. And that's in part what

1106
01:05:43,719 --> 01:05:46,719
is so heartbreaking about the events of her murder is

1107
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:50,880
that she did everything right and that wasn't met by

1108
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:53,000
people doing the right thing for her. And so that's

1109
01:05:53,079 --> 01:05:56,039
been it's been the irony.

1110
01:05:55,840 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 11: And the heartbreak of all of it.

1111
01:05:58,599 --> 01:06:02,119
Speaker 1: Justice didn't give the Zimmermans their daughter back. It didn't

1112
01:06:02,119 --> 01:06:05,360
give them the years they spent waiting or the milestones

1113
01:06:05,639 --> 01:06:09,480
they'll never get to see. What it did give them

1114
01:06:09,639 --> 01:06:13,320
was an ending and the knowledge that they never stopped

1115
01:06:13,400 --> 01:06:17,840
doing the right thing. Over the years, that choice has

1116
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:22,280
cost them more than time. Britney's mother used the money

1117
01:06:22,559 --> 01:06:24,599
that had been set aside for her wedding to help

1118
01:06:24,679 --> 01:06:29,760
fund the reward for information about her killer. They gave interviews,

1119
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:34,039
They relived the worst day of their lives over and

1120
01:06:34,239 --> 01:06:39,440
over again and again. They refuse to let the case

1121
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:46,719
and Britney's voice go quiet. And because of cases like Brittany,

1122
01:06:46,840 --> 01:06:52,880
something did change. Wisconsin law was updated to expand the

1123
01:06:52,960 --> 01:06:56,760
circumstances under which DNA is collected from people in the

1124
01:06:56,840 --> 01:07:01,599
criminal justice system, a shift to prevent evidence from sitting

1125
01:07:01,719 --> 01:07:06,000
in limbo, as it did in this case. It didn't

1126
01:07:06,000 --> 01:07:10,039
come soon enough for Brittany, but it may mean answers

1127
01:07:10,119 --> 01:07:15,880
come sooner for someone else. And isn't that all we

1128
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:20,480
can do on this rock, on this spin around the sun,

1129
01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:28,119
Just make it slightly better for the next person. If

1130
01:07:28,159 --> 01:07:31,320
you're homeless, you may not give a fuck, But if

1131
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:36,840
you care about the future of this thing we are humanity,

1132
01:07:37,960 --> 01:08:22,479
then you might want to do just that. That's gonna

1133
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:24,760
do it for another episode of Sword and Scale. Thank

1134
01:08:24,800 --> 01:08:28,000
you for joining us. If you have a technical issue,

1135
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:30,520
you can reach us at Support at swordinscale dot com

1136
01:08:31,520 --> 01:08:34,279
and UH, if you have a complaint about our content

1137
01:08:34,399 --> 01:08:36,239
and what I say, you can send that to our

1138
01:08:36,239 --> 01:08:40,399
complaints department and your local trash bin. Otherwise, UH, you

1139
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:44,119
can find everything else you'll want on our website and app.

1140
01:08:44,680 --> 01:08:49,119
Go to swordscale dot com for more info and we'll

1141
01:08:49,119 --> 01:08:50,920
see you next week. Why don't you go ahead stay

1142
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:52,000
safe until that.

1143
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:18,239
Speaker 15: Hoping people scouting about abating textu