Speaker 1: With me today. It's Andro Young. Andro is chief Commercial
Officer at Bacha Aqua Farms Group. Hi Andre, and welcome
to Seafood Matters. Thanks for coming.
Speaker 2: On, Thanks Jim, thanks for inviting me.
Speaker 1: Thank you very much. My later, Andre, can you explain
to our listeners your role within Bacha Aqua Farms Group.
Speaker 2: Sure, I joined Baja Aqua Firms in August of two
thousand and twenty four, and my role is the chief
commercial officer. So what does that mean. I look after
all of our sales around the globe. Also look also
take care of all of our marketing efforts as we
try to build out our Blue Fena brand. And we
have a sales operations team as well that manages the
sales from the farm to the customer. So those are
my primary roles within the company.
Speaker 1: Excellent. If I could just maybe divert a wee bit
for a second. What I find not strange, But obviously
our farms are in Mexico and that area. I'm talking
to Andrew Young. M h a name like Andrew Young.
I feel I'm talking to our fellow Scott.
Speaker 2: Well. I grew up in I grew up on the
furthest the farthest eastern part of Canada island called Newfoundland,
which is famous for its fishing. And so yeah, my
family heritage is probably a mix of English, Irish and Scottish.
So so you're you're you're right in your in your
sense of the name.
Speaker 1: Wonderful, wonderful. How what is your career path that led
you to join in the company?
Speaker 2: Sure, well, my first job out of NBA school was
the company called McCain Foods, who you're probably familiar with
that brand because it's it's throughout the UK and Europe.
It's actually it's a global brand. It's a frozen food company,
mostly known as the world's largest French fry producer. And
they so they recruited me out of school. I worked
for them for twenty us years in both sales and
marketing roles. And I was recruited by a company called
Cook Seafood, who's also a Canadian based company. That was
my first foray into the seafood side of the business,
and I worked for them for a number of years
and left Cook to join Bahi Aqua Firms in like
I said, August of twenty twenty four. So most of
my career was the first half of my career was
in consumer packaged goods and then the last ten plus
years have been on the seafood side of the business.
Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, can you explain what modern ocean farming actually
means in practical terms?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, as you know, we have a unique
go to market strategy with our product, so it's a
mix of both a wild fishery and then an aquaculture piece. Obviously,
to your question, we play in what I feel is
a is a very very modern part of the industry.
And what do I mean by that? Our farms are
offshore farms, so there are nowhere near land. Our farm
today is almost ten miles sort of triangulate from Tijuana,
Mexico or San Diego, USA, so we're about ten miles out.
So as I'm sure, as I'm sure you and your
listeners know, a lot of the new technology and new
frontiers around the aquaculture side of of seafood is trying
to push firms away from the shore. We're already doing that.
So we are what I would say is on the
cutting edge of the aguaculture side of the business. We're
also unique in the sense that we combined both the
wild fishery and aquaculture in how in how we raise
our fish and bring them to market. So what we're
doing at Baha Aqua Firms is is like I said,
leading edge and is really from from an aguaculture perspective,
the future of where aquaculture is going.
Speaker 1: When you talk about ten mile roughly out to see,
the first thing that comes the first thing that comes
to my mind is that have you any sheltered or
is it completely exposed?
Speaker 2: No, we are farm is next to a group of
islands called Coronado Islands. Now there's two sets of Coronado
Islands's one on the US but this is this is
the Coronado Islands on the in Mexican waters. So we
do have shelter, but again it's it's shelter on one
side of the farm. The farm is largely exposed to
the open ocean waters and that, of course uh provides
many challenges to to raising our fish. But while blue
fin wild bluefin and in and where we have our
farm set up today, we've found waters that a have
shelter as you've as you've as you've mentioned, but also
have excellent tide structure. So the tides there are very
favorable to farming blue fin.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: The oxygen levels of the water are very favorable to
farming blue fin, the depth of the water very favorable.
So again you really have to try to find that
perfect spot when you are that far out, uh, in
order to in order to have an environment where the
fish thrive while they're living on that farm.
Speaker 1: You mentioned before earlier had been you've been in our
Shedland aisles and Orkney Ales. Do you see some a
lot of the when you talk about the current tides
and that, would you see there's a some a lot
of the the it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, of course, I think any any aquaculture business
you're you're you're trying to find that perfect environment, whether
it's salmon farming or whether it's cod farming or in
our case blue fin tuna farming. You do have to
find that that that perfect environment where you can where
the fish can can thrive, and any one of those
elements that don't work, whether it be like I said,
oxygen levels or whether it's tides, or whether it's in
some cases you know there there are there are there
are places that have licenses as an example in Scotland
on the salmon side that are that are absolutely perfect
in terms of some of those elements, but the weather
is just so bad that you can't you can't physically
firm there. So whether water temperature, oxygen, oxygen levels, depth,
all of those things are elements that you need to
be working together in order to provide a viable aquaculture site.
Speaker 1: And a ticket does it my regency in the tides
and the currents, and that helped form the muscle, and
that's a benefit.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. You really want the fish to be living in
as natural of an environments as you can provide, and
so trying to emulate that is the key. But within
that you also certainly you know, a topic that everyone
talks about and seafood today is is El Nino and
what effect that will have on various wild and agricultural
fisheries around the world. And you know, water temperature is
the one variable that can really make or break a
farm or a wild fishery, of course, and so this
year will be especially challenging, I think for many fisheries
around the world, whether it be wildcought or whether it
be aquaculture based, in terms of what that water temperature
does and what the impact is on the fish and
the metabolism of the fish and mortalities, or how fast
they grow, or in our case, we are the only
I call it a farm, other people call it a ranch.
We're the only ranching operation in the entire world that
only feeds our blue fin tuna fresh. We feed our
fish fresh gardians. So the migratory pattern of blue Pacific
bluefin tuna when they are in the Baja California, Mexican waters,
they are there to catch and eat sardines. That's what
they're there for in their migratory pattern. So we emulate
that on the ranch or on the farm. We have
our own sardine fleet. We have fourteen vessels and we
fish fresh sardines every day and we deliver those back
to the farm. But as I said when I started
talking about this, we're the only ranching business in the
world that does that. And I not only think, but
I know that that leads to probably the best blue
fin tuna that you can eat anywhere, because that comes
out in the quality of the fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it sounds to me under Lake, if you had
a problem and some of the keyes were damaged the
tuna and said, are going to say, doesn't matter if
we can go we're not good anywhere.
Speaker 4: This is too good, This is too good to leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And also I wonder when you see close to their
natural environment, the fact that you're going as far away
as you're talking about, away from the coast, and that
you would almost be in that position that you're farming
them in their natural environment.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely absolutely, I mean when we so you know,
when you think about our business, we're both a wild
fishery business and an agriculture business. As I said before,
when we catch our bluefin tuna in many cases, actually
we just finished the latest tranche of our fishing season.
The tuna that we cought in the last couple of
weeks were no more than ten miles from the farm itself.
So that is very much their natural habitat. That's our
farm is right, is part of the migratory pattern that
they go through, so they so the wild blue fin
actually swim by our farm. So again it is it
is very much a natural environment for them, not only
the waters and the water temperature, but most importantly the
feed that they're that they're after.
Speaker 1: It's amazing incredible. See we'll see if the environment obviously
it's evolved enormously over the last two decads. Well, certainly
here it has. What change have what changes have unplaced
you most.
Speaker 2: In terms of sorry, just just.
Speaker 1: The ginges over the last two decads or the tainment
you've been involved. Have you seen a lot of ginges?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, absolutely, I think you think one of
the biggest changes. I'm sure you've taught to previous guests
about this, but is the change in the sustainability practices
of the business overall, not only the wild fishery, but
most importantly the aquaculture side of the business. So you know,
and sustainability is a big word and it means many things,
but you know, fish welfare is very important, so stocking
densities of farms that you have. We have very low
stocking density on our firms, which of course allows the
fish to thrive. In terms of feed, as I mentioned earlier,
we only feed one hundred percent natural. So that's that's uh,
you know that that's something that I talked to customers
a lot about. But the rest of the agriculture business
around the world is obviously made tremendous strides in terms
of what they're feeding their fish, and you know, things
like we don't have any disease on our firm because
again it's in a natural environment and we only feed
natural feed. But again, if you expand out to whether
it be the shrimp business or the salmon business, obviously
many of those businesses have made tremendous progress in terms
of the quality of the fish from a sustainability perspective,
and that's driven by you know, two main factors. One
is NGOs and their pressure UH to ensure that the
aquaculture businesses around the world are sustainable. But but the
the the other side is quite frankly just from the consumer.
So from the consumer side, they obviously demand more sustainable products.
That's not just specific to seafood, of course, you know,
you see it across beef for chicken or poultry, what whatever.
The industry will. Seafood has had to make many changes
so that they are that they are selling products to
consumers that consumers want. So I would say more than anything,
it's just it's just the the incredible change in sustainability
practices overall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: And that and there's still you know, there's still a
lot of work to be done on that. And you know,
they're the seafood business. I think in general is a
little behind the times when it comes to certifications. There's
too many certifications in our business. But certification bodies like
the like MSc and a SC have done like a
really good job in trying to consolidate that and and
make sure that everybody is is uh, you know, leaning
into those certifications as a way to create a sustainable
product for consumers.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's maybe not the same lateness, but I often
think even with the way effecialty in Scotland, I feel
do you feel you're said that taking ownership and the
industry does a certification.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, listen, it's sown important, you know. On the
tuna side, you've got to remember that there's there's there's
really two main blue fin tuna fisheries around the world.
Right There's the Pacific bluefin tuna, which is the largest
part of that fishery is in Japan, and the largest
market for bluefin in the world is in Japan. So
there's the Pacific blue fin which is caught either in
Japan wildcought, but a very small percentage of it is
wildcought in North American waters. And then we have our
own Mexican bluefin operation. But same species as as as
is being farmed or wildcot in Japan. And then you
have the Atlantic bluefin, which their migratory pattern is is
again the fish are very more in terms of their
in terms of their scientific structure, but there there are
some some differences. And then you have the Atlantic bluefin,
which is mostly caught in the Mediterranean area, so Spain, UH, Croatia, Turkey,
Malta play those would be the main players, and they
have they've also developed a ranching style business in those countries, Spain, Turkey,
Malta being the largest. So but again uh, you know,
the sustainable both of those both of those fisheries are
monitored by UH, the by an international tribunal, and that
tribunal is made up of scientists, government officials, and industry.
And that that that tribunal or that group, they're the
ones that set the quota for the for the fishery
and both the Pacific side and the Atlantic side. And
you know went y plus years ago both the both
both fisheries, both the Pacific bluefin tuna fishery and the
Atlantic bluefin tuna fishery. From a quota setting perspective, we're
not sustainable and so a lot of work has been
done over the last twenty years to ensure that the
stock of both Pacific bluefin tuna and Atlantic bluefin tuna
are in good shape. And today that you know that
all that work that's been done over twenty years and
all of that monitoring has paid dividends because we're at
a stage now where the stock of both both of
those fisheries are in such good shape that it allows
for quota increases as as we move forward. And so
uh that that's that's a sign of a of a
well managed fishery, definitely, Yeah. And uh and and and
the work that's been done by the by the International
Tuna Tribunal is UH has has been fantastic. But again
it's a it's a collective effort. But even even when
we do our own wild fishery, which usually takes place
between February and May, we have observers on our boats
uh from UH the you know, from both the tribunal
and or and the Mexican government. So you know, it's
it's come a long way from where it used to be.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not talking about the turn of the others.
Just you mentioned just no under a bet and my
main I would say, well, you've talked about the sites
that your farms are. You must be males ahead of
some of the other countries you mentioned as far as water,
the environment that you know, no pollution.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I never like to speak negatively about
anyone else, so only speak positively about our operation. And
I think I would say that I think we have
the most sustainable, most advanced firm in the world. I
think we brought a lot of technology into the site itself.
As an example, all of our pens. We have thirty
pens on our site. Each pen is you know, roughly
the size of a football pitch, think about that way.
And the each of those pens have automatic feeders that
go into the pens with cameras so that we can
ensure that obviously we're getting efficiency out of the feed
but also to make sure that fish are fed enough
during the day. Uh. And we obviously want that because
we want them to put on weight and we want
them to put on fat, because that's what we're really
after in terms of the ranching part of the business.
But we have you know, again from a technology perspective,
we have cameras on each of the pens. We have
automatic cleaners that go and it's you think of it
in terms of you know, the the robot vacuums that
you have that you see in people's houses, Well, we
have those on thin think of those, but in a
much larger scale, we have those on the farm. And
that's how we clean our pens.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And why do we do it that way. Well, it's
put way less stress on the fish itself when they're
in their pens. So a traditional way of cleaning pens
is you send divers down and you have to lift
the pens out of the water and you have to
spray them. Tremendous amount of stress on the fish while
you're doing that, but you have to clean the pens, right,
you have to keep them clean so that the fish
are in a good environment. Well, we've brought technology like
that to the farm. It's it's there's an economic benefit
because obviously it's more efficient to clean that way, but
it's also there's a huge benefit in terms of the
quality of the farm and the quality of life that
the fish have when they're there.
Speaker 1: It's fantastic. But the one thing that it might mean
when you mentioned that, and it's just making me think
you have. No, it's not like a farm in a
field with cattle or sheep or whatever, and you can
see they're gaining with does the combat as all you
need to actually can you see that they're gaining with? Oh?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, yeah, I mean the cameras use artificial intelligence
that uh, and you think about the farm. So there's
the thirty pens that are that are in the ocean,
but we have cameras that a we use for the
feeding side of the business. But obviously but most importantly,
we use that information to monitor what is their weight gain,
how many fish are in each pen. So you know,
you we want to you want to have an accurate,
accurate account for that. You want you want to monitor
their health overall, and so that all gets fed into
a computer system which is at the firm. So we
have a we have a main vessel that houses the
people that work at the farm. So uh, there's about
around thirty people that live at the farm. Those are
both you know, anyone anyone and some of those people
are the people that manage the artificial intelligence and computer
systems that monitor all of those things, fish health, feeding,
how much weight that they're putting on, when is the
right time to harvest them all of those things.
Speaker 1: That's really impressive. Yeah, I take it with the old
comment when people would talk about farmed seafood is infeedy
or quality, I would take that's a perception who dated now,
is it?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely? I mean, well, first of all, I think people,
I think the average consumer. You know, you and I
are not the average seafood consumer because we're in the business.
But I think the latest overall is somewhere around seventy
to seventy five of all seafood consumed around the world
is aquaculture based, uh, and that and that percentage is
growing because of course there's growing population and there's more,
there's there's a lot of pressure on the wildstock, wild
fisheries around the world, changing water temperatures, everything else. So
agaculture is is going to be very important. It's going
to continue to grow in terms of its percentage of
the overall amount of seafood that gets that gets brought
to consumers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. How important is culinary innovation and changing public attitudes
towards responsible farm seafood.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's I think it's I mean chefs so on
the food service side of the business, chefs in general,
in a growing way are demanding more sustainable seafood. So
there's that pressure from the chef's side of the business
or the culinary side of the business. And then on
the retail side. We only service today. We're almost exclusively
a food service business, so all of our fish end
up in restaurants. None of what we produce today goes
to retail. And that's not to say that that's not
a white space for our business. I think it is.
But so in our business, when we talk to chefs,
they's some of the first questions they ask. You know,
they can make decisions on the quality or your fish
by cutting it and cooking it and eating it. But
whether we talk to a national chain or whether we
talk to a chef at a Michelin star restaurant or
a white tablecloth restaurant, they want to know about our
farm and what we're doing and how we're raising our fish.
That's a big factor in them determining whether or not
they buy our fish or somebody else's. Uh so so, yeah, No,
it's the The culinary side of the business is very
focused on the the what what you're doing to raise
those fish or catch those fish?
Speaker 1: Yeah, and from a culinary perspective. Again, what defines truly
high quality seafood today?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean beyond sustainability, I think one of the
you know, one of the big elements, especially when it
comes to aguaculture is freshness. Obviously, you know where our
business is. One of the big benefits of our business.
The largest market for our fish is in the US,
So I'll answer your question this way. And so we
have the benefit of being very close to the US,
and so our supply chain into the US market is
very There's a very short timeframe. We can harvest fish
on a Saturday and it's in somebody's restaurant on a
Monday or Tuesday. But that's important because the freshness of
the fish from a culinary's perspective is very important, especially
with a species like bluefin tuna who and that fish
has a shorter shelf life as it relates to freshness.
So freshness is a big one. I think. Obviously the
sustainability piece which we talked about, and within the sustainability piece,
what are the fish being fed? From an actical culture perspective,
your supply chain is very important. So in our case,
from the time the fish has harvested to the time
that it shows up in a box to a distributor.
How is that fish being treated along the way? So
are you icing it as soon as it comes out
of the water, which of course we are. Are you
keeping the fish chilled throughout the supply chain process because
that you know that data course is leads to leads
to quality. And so chefs, distributors, customers, they want to
know about your supply chain. Also they want to know
about traceability. And again in our case, we trace as
soon as our fish land at the farm all the
way to the customer. We trace every single one of
those fish. And we actually have QR attach that's attached
to the head of our fish where the customer can
go on and just scan the QR code and they
can see when the fish landed at the farm, how
long it was there, when it was harvested. We grade
each of our fish, so we each one of our
fish is grade for fat content, so they can see
the grading of that fish and then they can also
see the temperature as it as it goes along the
supply chain route. So traceability, sustainability, supply chain all really
important from a differentiation point.
Speaker 1: When you talk about the fat content. Can you control that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean that's what branching is all about. It
quite frankly, is is managing both the size of the fish,
but most importantly in our business and the blue fish
tuna business, is trying to create fat content, which is
sought after by chips. That's really what they're after. And
that's one of our big points of differentiation is that
we have we have probably the best fat content of
any blue fin tuna in the world. And again it
goes back to that's not that's not by accident, that's
that's because of our farming operations. It goes back to
the fat that we're feeding them, high fat sardines, which
is what they what they eat in the wild, and
so through our farming and feeding operations, we're able to
provide that fat content. But absolutely, it's it's very prescriptive
in terms of how we go about it. And uh, now,
the the we when we catch blue fin the arab
I'll give you an average size, like a trailing three
year average size, and I'll do it in CAGs if
that's okay. So we the average size of a fish
that lands on our farm is around between seventy and
eighty kgs. So uh, Now, they do have a certain
amount of fat content because they're they're grown fish. They're
you know, they're not juveniles. They're they're they're they're well
into their Jewish maturity cycle, so they do have some fat.
What we do so now, the average sized fish that
we harvest is uh somewhere around one hundred and thirty
one hundred and forty kgs. So that growth is both
fat content, uh and also and also obviously just size
of the fish.
Speaker 1: So uh.
Speaker 2: And they typically stay on the farm somewhere around a year,
so it takes it takes you know, some depending on
what size they were going in, you know, anywhere between
eight and twelve months before they get harvested.
Speaker 1: From what the way it described that, Andrew, it sort
of got me thinking on the so called health experts
who are trying to you hear them talking about as
losing weight and being healthier, and they'll tell us to
cut fat and they'll be taking the fat off meat
and things, and yeah, they're just losing the flavor it.
Speaker 2: Well, like I said, the the the toro piece of
the blue fin tuna is what what chefs really go after,
because that is uh, that's for both flavor and texture.
And that's and that's and that's that's the most Also,
it's a lot different than salmon. As an example, you know,
on the salmon side, the belly side of the salmon,
which is the fat piece, is the cheaper part of
the fish, whereas in bluefin that's actually the most expensive
part of the fish.
Speaker 1: Well that not just speak volumes. And you know you
said salmon, that's bluefin and salmon our whales. Whitefish is
mostly whitefish. Our whale fish here we cord. Yeah, if
I in fact the way I'll describe it slightly, definitely,
and I would just say I had a restaurant here
at a project he'd run it for twenty years, seafood
only sea rest. If I had just say I got
cord of a fishing board that just landed, I would
be cut in it and portion in it for the restaurant. Yeah,
the bailey, I took it home.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, exactly delicious, delicious or the cheeks or the
or the tongue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly definitely. Yeah, confirmed seafood no genuinely compete with
premium whales seafood for flavor and texture.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean in our business. There's no comparison really.
I mean the ranching side or the aquaculture side of
the business is UH is the vast majority of what
what UH high end chefs want and this, you know,
this is a this is a it's a very expensive
fish to buy. So UH we are in sort of
the very high value part of the chain. And so
we are dealing with you know, Oma Kassie style restaurants,
high end Japanese style restaurants, or high end white tablecloth
or steakhouse restaurants, and they they absolutely want firmed bluefin
because of the consistency. They know what they're going to
be able to get. It's consistent year round, which is
very important to them. And again it goes back to
they know that the farming practices can deliver the better quality, taste,
and texture than what they can get in the wild.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And what role do you feed, water quality
and farming methods play in the final eating experience?
Speaker 2: Oh, it's it's it's everything. Like I said, I mean,
how the fish is caught, how the fish is taken
care of and fed at the farm, what does the
supply chain look like out of that? Those are all
elements that you know we were able to sell our fish.
We have high demand for our fish at a very
high cost. And why is that we never have to
discount our fish. All the fish that we that we
raise and then harvest are all graded Superior A, so
we have almost no defects, almost no B graded fish.
And then we have that consistency three hundred and sixty
five days a year. So if you're a restaurant owner,
if you're a seafood distributor, you know that you're going
to get the same quality three hundred and sixty five
days a year, and you know that that fish is
going to be available and you know that.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: It's again one of one of my biggest selling points
when I talked to either current customers or prospective customers
is our farming practices as it relates to emulating their
environment as much as we can in a farming in
a ranching environment, UH leads to just the highest quality fish.
But if you don't do if you don't do all
of those all the things that you mentioned, whether it's
how you catch them, how you how you treat them
at the farm, UH, stocking density, Uh, are they are
they living in a in a water temperature and environment
that allows them to thrive. What are they eating while
they're there? What are your harvest methods? Uh? You know,
we just we just got certified what's called the Ikogimi
certification method, which essentially means that you are humanely taking
care of your fish, but you're also humanely harvesting them
so when you bring them, when you're about to bring
them to market, that you're doing it in a way
that it doesn't cause any stress on the fish.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And Uh, they they go from swimming in the ocean
to the harvest boat in a very short period of time.
Speaker 1: Seconds from the weird describing it, Andro, what's coming to
my mind is I think your stalk are living a
happy lafe.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's boned, boned to come out in the flavored. Oh,
they're not stressed.
Speaker 2: They're not they're not mutually exclusive, they're they're they're tied
at the hip. You how how you treat your fish
and how you feed your fish is one hundred percent
link to the quality of the fish that you're able
to sell. And so my job in some in some
ways is easy because of our firming operation and and
and what a great job that they do. Because I
know that when when our fish go to market, I'm
not going to have any pushback from customers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is amazing. Yeah, it's one of the things
that really it's completely my qualified mind, but one of
the things that I find surprising. And you'll probably say, well,
there's no reason or need to feel surprised that when
you mentioned your obviously your product is juna, bluep and tuna. Yeah,
I was really surprised earlier when Japan's not your market.
If you asked me, I would have said it was
the only market. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that used to be the case. So the
Japanese market is the largest in the world. I'll just
give you like rough figures to give you a reference point.
So the consumption of bluefin tuna in Japan is in
and around seventy five thousand metric tons a year. The
consumption of bluefin tuna in the United States, obviously a
much bigger country, is about seventy five hundred metric tons
a year, so it's ten percent. So the consumption in
the US is only ten percent of what the consumption
is in Japan. Now, having said that, the consumption in
Japan is declining because it's a declining population and therefore
the consumption. And there's other and there's there are other
alternatives that have been introduced over the years, but the
consumption in Japan is flat to declining, whereas the US
the consumption has ramped up considerably in the last five
to ten years. And the reason for that is that
there's been a real explosion of two things. Oh, makazi
style restaurants, so those are traditional Japanese restaurants. There's been
a lot of growth on that side of the business.
And then just overall consumption of sushi in the US
has grown significantly, so that's grown the consumer base, and
the US bluefin tuna business today is growing at around
fifteen to twenty percent a year. So to your point,
when Baja first started twenty years ago, one hundred percent
of that product was being shipped to Japan. Today, only
about twenty percent of our business is in Japan, and
Japan is a again, it's it's a much bigger market,
it's a much more complicated market because the other driver
of the Japanese business is that about sixty percent of
that consumption is super frozen tuna. And what do I
mean by that? So they they catch they catch the tuna,
immediately freeze them whole at minus eighty and then they
stay at minus eighty celsius minus eighty celsius until they're
until they're sold. That that super frozen business doesn't exist
anywhere else in the world because you need the infrastructure
in placement in order to allow that supply chain to exist.
So in Japan there's super frozen storage from a on
a mass storage level, and then they're super frozen trucks
that transport it, and then there's super frozen freezers in
in seafood distribution outlets. That that infrastructure doesn't doesn't exist
anywhere else in the world. So the so the the
seventy five hundred metric tons that I told you about
in the US that is one hundred percent so fresh.
So there is no froze. There is no frozen bluefin
tuna business. Not to say that there won't be at
some stage, but right now the business is one hundred
percent fresh, where as Japan is ten times as big.
And there's also a large portion of that which is
which is the super frozen side of the business. And
of course they have the auction in Japan and in
in in Tokyo. And again it's a it's a it's
it's a way more mature business than it is in
the US or in Europe for that matter.
Speaker 1: I mean sometimes here to fish or or put it
the other way, from the catcher's point of view, they
would sell a fish to Japan and the word mid
per life.
Speaker 2: Yeah there there. I think some of that is a
little exaggerated. But but but no, you're you're it is
true that there the market, uh the Toyosa market, which
is where the where the auction is which takes place.
I think it's five days a week. So you know,
a lot of the wild caught bluefin around the world
is sold through that market.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 2: And so prize catches of blue fin with the right
UH fat content can fetch you know, you know, you
could get in some cases you can get you know,
forty fifty dollars for a fish. But but but in general,
the market is is supplied by a mix of UH farms.
So there's a number, there's thousands of blue fin tuna
farms in Japan and and wildcot.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, understeps becoming more open minded about responsibly
farm seafood.
Speaker 4: Japan.
Speaker 2: You talking about Japan no, so these chefs, oh chefs, No, absolutely, Well,
they're not only more open minded, but I think they're
demanding it because they want to be able to put
on their menus that they're seafood, that the seafood that
they're serving consumers is responsibly sourced. So yeah, no, it's
it's not just open minded. Again, they're demanding. If you
there's a certification in the in the US, it's called
Monterey Bay Aquarium. I don't know if you've ever heard
of that, but it's it's a it's an NGO certification.
Many chefs in the US use that as a as
a sort of barometer as to what fish that they're
going to buy, but they look at things like MSc
and ASC and BAP and all of those certifications. Those
those are definitely more meaningful to the chef community than
they ever have been before.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I know you're not dealing direct with consumer retail,
But have consumers become more educated about the quality or
they're still very much sort of driven by price.
Speaker 2: I think that I think there's there's a shift that's
taking place, and that shift is driven by younger consumers.
So as they enter into you know, buying their own
food going to restaurants, they demand more sustainable products because
that's how they that's how they grew up. And obviously
the whereas you know, ten fifteen years ago, you really
just sort of relied on what either a retailer or
a restaurant told you. Well, you and I both know
how quick it is just to check on your phone
and get a reference as to hey, what am I
eating here, where is it from? Is it truly sustainably sourced?
So the demands of the newer consumer, I think are
going to put more pressure on the seafood industry to
continue to ensure that the products that they're bringing to
market are sustainable, more responsible, and otherwise people are going
to walk away from the category. And you know, in
the seafood world, we've all been talking about the same
things for a long time, which is how do you
grow seafood? It's a healthy protein, and quite frankly, there
hasn't been any growth than seafood for a long time.
I think one of the ways that seafood can grow
in the future is really owning that sustainability piece to
the to the end consumer and demonstrating to them no,
no different than what poultry has done or no different
than what the beef industry has done.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: To continue to attract consumers to that space, seafood really
needs to kind of get their act together when it
comes to that.
Speaker 1: I know you've already said that you don't like be
negative about others, and I don't either, but I have
to say, my heart of hearts, when I you know,
lovely seafood that you're talking about and all the work
you're doing on it and putting end to it, why
I check it? Would want to have a check it
before some of your lovely sepood.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, again that's you know, the responsibility lies with
the industry when it comes to that. And so that's
obvious to me or you, but it's not obvious to
everyday consumers. You see that in seafood sales, which have
been stagnant for a long time.
Speaker 1: UH.
Speaker 2: And so you know, it's about creating the right story
for future consumers so that they do gravitate more towards
seafood because, as you said, it does have such a
great foundational story. It is a healthy protein. There's so
many seafoods that provide you know, whether it be Omega
three or the protein side of it in itself, which
is obviously a which is obviously a huge trend with consumers.
So we're well positioned from from an industry perspective, we're
just not taking advantage of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, I was gonna is there any trends that
you're seeing emerging globally right now? But I think you've
already mentioned that. The fact that the American market is
growing so much compared to the Japanese market.
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, well, I mean that's specific to Bluefin and
so we So I'm I'm thankfully in the Bluefin tuna
business these days. But you know, it's it's can't You
can't really rest on your laurels or on your heels
when it comes to that those growth rates will level
off at some stage. So what do you do today,
whether it be from an innovation perspective, how do we
bring Bluefin into the retail environment or into different restaurant sectors.
So that's a lot of the work that I'm doing
today to try to prepare their business for the future
so that we do continue to grow the consumer base
for Bluefin. You know, again, we're we have the luxury
of being in a business that's growing today, but you
can always assume that those growth rates are going to
go on forever. So you got to you really got
to carve out more innovative options for the consumer going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You mentioned earlier about younger consumers change in seafood
market with their sustainability expectations very very much the case,
is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's the case overall. It doesn't really
impact per se my business today, but again, as we
try to expand the customer and consumer base for this business,
the sustainability side of it is going to be important
as we build out that story and build out those products.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: How important is traceability becoming in the premier seafood market.
Speaker 2: No, it's it's extremely important. I speak, you know, look customer.
When I say customers, I mean seafood distributors are national chains.
They demand traceability when it comes to products that you're
that you're selling to them. So it's not it's not
a trend, it's it's it's not a nice to have,
it's a must have really as as you move forward.
So if you want sophisticated customers that are going to
pay premium for your product, trace ability is a must have, Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: And as well as that with with your site and
your runch in, does seasonality play apart.
Speaker 2: No, not really. I mean there is some seasonality with
it on the consumer side, but for bluefin tuna, there's
there's It would just fall under the regular seasonality of
when win restaurants you know, sell sell more so holidays
that sort of thing. But from a from a farming
and perspective, there is there is no seasonality. And that's
one of the benefits of where our farm is is
that we have very moderate changes in our water temperature
and so therefore it allows us to really deranch and
harvest fish three hundred and sixty five days a year.
And on top of that, we have I think in
the last two years we might have had one day
where we weren't able to harvest because of weather, So
that which is pretty incredible. Whether it's wild fishery or
whether it's even aquaculture businesses, you know, harvesting schedules can
be changed pretty significantly by weather events. But we're just
in the in in such a great place when it
comes to not only the farming side of it, but
the weather as well, so we don't have any season
seasonality in our business, but obviously seasonality or or weather
patterns are significant when it comes to other seafood producers.
Speaker 1: Would you now have a spawning cycle?
Speaker 2: They would, but where we catch them and the size
that we catch them at, we we don't have. We
don't have to, We don't have to deal with spawning cycle.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Our tuna don't spawn when they're when they're
in at our firms. So it's not it's not it's
not part. It's not an issue that we have to
deal with.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Could technology eventually allow consumers to know the exact
origin and an environmental foodprint of the first that buy.
I think you've maybe answered that, but.
Speaker 3: You yeah, I mean, look, you know, well for us today,
it's it is happening because now I'm not speaking to
the end consumer.
Speaker 2: I'm speaking to our main customers, which are seafood distributors
who buy our fish and then value at it and
deliver it. But if we if we were to ever,
as an example, enter retail, we could use our traceability
system to allow for basically blockchain technology, that consumer could
just go on and scan the QR code of the
package that they buy and they'll be able to see
the whole story about the fish that they're about to buy,
so that that that technology exists today, and I think
it's going to be important for seafood players to adopt
that as part of their selling strategy because I do
think that the future consumer is going to demand that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, which of the of I'll give you
a list which innovation excites you most. Offloor farming, EI monitoring,
alternative FIBs, genetics, and low impact systems.
Speaker 2: I think offshore farming is the way of the future,
I think to me, I mean, all of the other
things that you mentioned are obviously important, but the breakthrough
for aquaculture in general is going to be the formulas
where you can successfully And when I say successfully, I
mean from a financial perspective. I think many of the
species that are in agriculture today are proven viable from
a farming perspective when it comes to offshore farming, but
they're not viable from a financial perspective. The costs associated
with offshore farming are so significant that people can't make
any money doing it. Obviously, there's a tremendous amount of
capital being deployed against innovations that will allow for offshore farming. So,
like I said earlier, we're already doing that. We have
a species that allows for that and allows for it
to be done in a way where you can make
money when you look at other species. It's not there yet,
but obviously farms are going to have to leave near
shore and go offshore if they want to survive long terms.
So that to me, I think is the place where
I think there can be the most growth in the
in the business overall. I think on the AI side,
you know, we're using AI today in a lot of
our in a lot of our farming practices, so you know,
just from the sorting of the fish when it comes
to the firm, to monitoring the fish health and fish
size when it's at the firm. But obviously you know
AI is going to be explosive as relates to farming
practices going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fantastic because maybe at an advantage in
a way from I can fully get what you say, Andrew,
because my age, I can remember the early days of
the of fitch farming starting in Scotland and we have
possibly been in some of them sea lock we call
them sea locks, which in Scandinavia countries they would call
them fiords.
Speaker 2: Yea.
Speaker 1: You know they have their sea seawater there and there's
a good water displacement, there's good depth, and they would
have the cages right down at the in this in
the sea locks because they had sheltered and like you say,
now you'll hardly ever see that in Scotland now they're
all offshore, yeah, or maybe offshore to the extent that
you are, but they're certainly out the.
Speaker 2: Laws, oh absolutely. And you know you look at Norway,
which is the largest producer of salmon around the world,
or Chile for that matter, which is the second largest,
and you know there's the government is really pressuring companies
there to advanced technology to get firms away from the
shore and out to sea. And so you know, again
that's the reason why all that capital is being deployed
in innovation to try to drive that. Again, if I
go back to our own business, yes we're off shore.
Yes we have a fabulous farm, but you know our
operations team and our farm team are always looking for
ways to either use technology or new innovation and to
improve our firm. So you know, it's perpetual innovation to
try to drive efficiencies and to try to try to
get a better product at the firm. I think that
we have the best bluefintuna product in the world, but
I also know that I've got it that there's a
team behind the business that is always trying to make
it better. So that's that's the magic.
Speaker 1: Can ocean farming scaled globally without compromising the ecosystem?
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's where the offshore farming comes in,
and I think you know that that needs to happen
in order to be able to scale the business. I
hate to keep going back to salmon farming, but it's
it's the largest. Well, that and shrimp are the two
largest agriculture businesses. But as salmon continues to grow, there
are no more sites traditional sites available, they just don't
exist anymore. So if they want to grow, to have
to create sites offshore. In our business in bluefin as
we continue to grow, even in our own business, we
are you know, we look out five ten years from now,
and we know that we've got to start now working
with governments, start now, working with stakeholders to ensure that
we have future sites available that we can continue to
grow our business on. So you know, our site today
is not at capacity, but it will be at some stage.
So you have to work with the stakeholders to get
new concessions. But that work's got to be done now
for five ten years from now.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Our regulations keeping peace with the speed of innovations.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's to be honest with you, I
think that regulations is what's driving innovation. Really, the regulatory
environment around agriculture is forcing more innovation in terms of
farming practices. And I I just keep going back to
the offshore piece. But the reason that the offshore farming
is the future is because the availability to do it
near shores just won't be there. And that's that's riven
by regulatory So the governments around the world are saying, hey,
if you want to continue to farm, or if you
want to continue to grow, we're not going to create
new sites near shore. You're going to have to create
technologies that allows you to do it offshore. Now, in
many cases, part of the industry's response is to try
to do land based so using land based technology to
emulate what you can do in the ocean. The problem
with that is that hasn't proven to be an economically
viable model today some of the largest land based aquaculture
businesses around the world to have been failures. And so
the technology is in the capital is being driven towards
trying to find a land based model that works. But
in the event that that doesn't work, then obviously you
have to you have to continue to do it in
the ocean. And to do that, you have to you
have to have innovation and technologies that allows you to
do it offshore.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have to work at avoiding and just
for the lake industrial efficiencies coming at the expense of
the equality.
Speaker 2: In our business, quality is paramount. And so again, I
know I've said this a couple of times already to you,
but we feed our fish one hundred percent fresh sardines,
and that's that's the foundation of our business. It would
be easy to walk away from that at certain times
of the year, it would be easy to look at
alternative feeds, but again, the foundation of the quality of
the fish that we have starts with that feed. And so, yeah,
are there cheaper ways that we could feed our fish
and drive a higher margin. Yes. Is it more difficult
at certain times of the year to catch fresh feed
and feed our fish, yes, But again, longer term, the
health of the brand, the health of the business, and
the quality of the fish that we produce three hundred
and sixty five days a year is all based on
our quality and so we never walk away from that.
It never gets difficult.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I respect that because you're what you're actually
saying there. I feel, Andrew is you've been a standard
and you won't compromise.
Speaker 2: Absolutely no, And like I said, I don't speak poorly
of others, but that's not the standard that other people have,
even within the bluefin business. So but you know, again,
I can charge higher prices for my fish than my
competitors and the reason for that is they know that
they're going to get the highest quality.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, someone who worked in secret hospitality myself, I
understand the importance of consistency. Is consistency one of the
biggest advantages You're modern farming offers shift.
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I mean that that's it, right, I mean
the consistency is tied to the quality, but consistency not
only in the quality of the fish, but consistency in
availability of the fish. They know that on Monday morning
they can order our fish and it's going to be
in their restaurant. On Wednesday, and they know that it
was just tarvested, you know, within twenty four twenty four
to forty eight hours of that. So uh and we
and we do that, We do that a lot, like
we are constantly bringing our customers out to our farm
so they can experience it. And so we we spend
a lot of time and effort making sure that our
customer base gets to go out and see the firm
and experience it and see our harvest process. Uh, and
then bring them back to our processing facility eight hours
later in the middle of the night and show them
the care and quality that we take in in processing
that fish and boxing it up for them. So that's
an experience that they'll always remember and uh. And that
you know, of course pays dividends in terms of keeping
customers longer term.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And do you feel how much fluence shefs actually
have and shaping sustainable seafood choices?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, ultimately they're determining what goes on
their menu, and so again a sustainability becomes more important
not only do chefs but to the to their patrons
or their customers. Then they're the ultimate decision makers in
in a lot of ways and so yeah, absolutely, I
mean they want to understand where that fish is coming
from and and how is how has it been firmed
or how has it been caught, and so it plays
a big role.
Speaker 1: That's interesting. Yeah, do you think restaurants explain seafood provenance
well enough to their customers?
Speaker 2: Short answer, No, Again, I think that's a that's a
that that's that's another another something else that the industry
has to take on. And so I think provedance, I
think sustainability. I think, you know, even even down to
is this a fresh codfish or is it a frozen fish?
Those are not really well I think. I think a
lot of the traceability rules that are being put in place,
and I think a lot of the work in particular
in the US that the NFI, which is the National
Fisheries Institute is doing as it relates to trace ability
has really pushed that issue quite significantly. But I still
think there's a lot of work to do with like
collaboration between the industry being the seafood industry and restaurants
and restaurant chains to properly market seafood. I think there's
a lot of work to be done there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, I would normally ask this question of
a species because multi speed she fishies like us, what
species do you think are under rated from a calndary perspective?
But I would also like if you could ask you
that and with the different parts of the body of
a tuna, are they very different? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, for bluefin, yes, there's really three distinct there's really
three distinct products that you get from a blue fin tuna.
You get the a commie piece, which is the red
meat part of the fish, so that that's one part.
Then you get what's called the otro part of the fish,
which is kind of a blend between the the the
top loin and the bottom loin of the fish, so
it's kind of a more marbled piece of the fish.
So you get some fat content and some lean part
of the fish. And then you have what I talked
about Royer, which is most valuable and most sought after
part of our fish, which is the touro piece, which
is the belly loin of the fish or the the
the fatty part of the fish. And that's really, you know,
really sought after in particular by oma cossie chefs across
the world because you know, when they when they do it. Uh,
if you go to an Omacassie restaurant, you usually get
all three parts of a blue fin tuna as part
of a as part of a dish or serving, and
they eat completely differently, They taste differently, they have different texture. Uh.
So you really get three distinct products out of one
blue fin tuna. Okay, it's a really cool fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a big thing. No, I don't know
of there's much of it over your way, but there's
been one Anceland. They call it the Ocean cluster. There
there's a Scottish one set up. Now it's about obviously
you trying, you know, I don't suppose you'd ever get there.
But one hundred percent of the fish. Yeah, it's what
what would say a chef buying a whole blue and tuna?
What can they yield? Do you get?
Speaker 2: Oh? They use almost it has almost one hundred percent yield?
Speaker 1: Wow? Probably?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well even the fish itself from as a
it's a very high yielding fish from a processing perspective,
because you got to think of the fish of when
it's harvested. It's really it's all it's all meat. I mean,
it's a there's not much. You know, there's not much
of a skeleton to the fish. It's really all meat.
And so we we sell our fish head on tail
on and it's just uh, you know, gild and gutta
or g fish, but we we leave the head on
the tail on. Chefs used the meat from the head.
They use meat throughout. So it's a very very high
yielding fish.
Speaker 1: That's really belaustic. Yeah, and is that the case, would
that be the same wild.
Speaker 2: Uh, it would still be a high yielding fish, not
as much we but but yeah, bluefin tuna in general
is a very high yielding fish and you can really
use all parts of it in different even you know,
even the spine. And we have a customer that we're
shipping to in the US today that only wants the
bluefin tuna eye. So they use the eyes as a dish,
and so we sell them that. We sell them the
whole head, but they they're they're really after the eye
itself as sort of the the product that they serve
on their menu.
Speaker 1: Sorry I didn't cut when you said the who who
is there any a particular type of customer looking for
the eye?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, there is, Like I said, like it's it's
it's people that you know, like very think a very
high end Michelin Star restaurants, those type of restaurants, and
they use the eye as as as one of the
as one of the dishes because it's so sought after.
Speaker 1: That's funny you should say that because my father used
to tell us when they were young, and obviously cord
there would have cord and though there was a family
my father he had there were seven brothers and two sisters,
big families then, and they would be fighting over whose
turn it was to get the eye of the gold. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1: That's good. It's you feel the seafood sector is getting
better at balancing environmental responsibility with commercial reality.
Speaker 2: Oh that's a big question.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: I think there's been a tremendous work done when it
comes to that balance. But again that goes hand in
hand with what I said earlier, which is being able
to you know, being able to promote yourself as a
sustainable fishery or as a sustainable product also goes hand
in hand with the balancing that that environmental aspect. So
you know, we always like to say in our company
that you know, the first and foremost were stewards of
the ocean, and so we need to take care of
the ocean. We need to take care of where we
farm or fish. Uh And if you don't take care
of that, then you're you're not going to have a
good environment to raise fish longer term. And so I
think that the industry, in particular the aguaculture industry has
figured that out over time that you need to you
need to take care of, uh of where you're raising fish.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is how important is animal welfare becoming an aquaculture.
Speaker 2: That's extremely extremely important. I mean, yeah, it's it's one
of the you know, one of the main pillars of
our farming operation is is animal welfare from the from
the catching side of it all the way to the
farming side of it. And as I said to you earlier,
we just got a we just got the highest standard
that you can get around the world, which is called
an IKEJMI standard certification, and that's all about animal welfare.
And you know, we we had to have their team
out to our firm. They spent a couple of days there,
you know, sort of monitoring our activities, monitoring how we
treat the fish when it's there, how we treat it
when when we harvest them, and so absolutely, I mean
animal welfare and especially these days, I mean it only
takes one person with a camera to go out and
film what you're doing, and that can that can damage
your brand for years, and so yeah, I know, it's
it's it's extremely important.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Good back to the previous point. I was just
thinking when you said that, it's a term that's used
here a lot undreu an environmental well, going to the science,
there's a vast there's a vast difference between an environmental
scientists and officiality scientists. Oh.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, big difference. Yeah, but you know, again, you
don't have to look for you can look at other
industries and other industries that have thrived by being seen
as sustainable, seen as being environmental stewards.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: And if you're not on the right side of that,
then you're you know, you're it's going to be very
difficult going forward to build a to build a profitable business.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you feel the seafood industry has a ors
helping feed a growing population?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolutely, I mean, you know, it's one of the
best sources of protein that you can get, and so
it's going to play a really important role in a
growing population. How important is really up to the industry itself,
And like I said, it's the seafood sales in general
have been stagnant for many years, and I think the
industry really needs to ask itself why that is with
a growing population, with the sort of desperate need for
more protein around the world. So that's you know, part
of the response to that has obviously been the growth
in aquaculture. But I think again, all of the things
that we've been talking about for the last hour and
a half, when it comes to sustainability and when it
comes to perception of seafood, still think there's a lot
of work to be done to take a bigger share
of that pie going forward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you confident premium quality seafood still remains accessible unaffordable?
Speaker 2: Yes, I think in general it does. I think again,
if you look, I mean, look all all the cost
of food is going up everywhere, So I don't think
that that's any difference in seafood than it is anywhere else. So,
you know, food affordability is obviously an issue. I think
seafood remains a within the context of overall proteins, whether
it be chicken or bee for pork. It still remains
a very viable product from an affordability perspective.
Speaker 1: Okay, and for the future a seafood, how do you
see your production look in twenty years from there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there's a tremendous amount of
growth for Bluefin, not only in places like Western Europe
and the United States, but you know, one of our
sales strategies is to grow in developing markets, so we've
said up customers in Brazil and Columbia, Chile, We're starting
to service almost all Latin American markets, and we see
that as a as a big growth platform going forward.
I also think innovation is going to come come into play.
And like I said earlier that almost all of the
blue Fen today in the in the US in particular
is fresh and it's mostly mostly high end Japanese style
almakasi restaurants. But I think there's a tremendous opportunity for
to grow out to other customer segments, consumer segments. So
you know, I'm very bullish on where Bluefin can go
as a species, and when you look at our production platform,
you know, I don't see any reason that we won't
be able to double our business in the next four
to five years.
Speaker 1: Okay, well do you see do you see in any
way traditional whale specialties on modern aquaculture could become more
connected or more competitive.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think they're gonna They're gonna have to be
more connected. And you can see that, like look at
cod as an example. You reference cod a couple of times. Well,
what's happened to the cod supply in the last two years.
It's drastically been reduced because the quote is on wildcot
cod are going down, So there are as you know,
there's many cod firming operations that are coming on stream.
And again it's too it's to meet the the the
over demand and undersupply of that business. The same thing
goes with tuna. I mean, we're we're the greatest exact
sample of the we're really the only fishery in the
world that combines pure wild fishery with a with a
aquaculture bolt on basically. And so you know, if you
look at bluefin tuna is the perfect example of the
cooperation ab both the wild fishery and aquaculture. But I
certainly think that as aquaculture becomes more even more prevalent
than it is today than that they're they're not really competitors.
They're just part of a just part of a larger industry.
Speaker 1: And do you feel that farming, sorry ocean farming, could
eventually reduced pleasure on wildfast stops.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. I mean, again I go back to
what I said earlier. I think seventy to seventy five
of production today is aquaculture based. You know, agaculture is
a relatively new way of farming. Uh, it's really only
been around in any sort of significant way for the
last that's called it twenty five years, whereas people have
been fishing wild for thousands of years. So yeah, I
mean you can see that a relatively new technology, which
is aguaculture now is now seventy five percent of what's
produced around the world. That's only going to get larger
as a percentage as as population grows and there's and
there's the need for more protein. So again, I don't
see it as competing elements. I think they're I think
they're just part of an overall seafood industry, and and
and and there in many ways you see much more
cooperation between the two sides of the businesses and the
and the ownership of the businesses. If you look at
a lot of the global seafood companies today, they are both.
They have aquaculture pieces to their business and they have
wildcot fisheries to their business, and so there's not that segmentation.
The consolidation within the industry means that whether you're a
multinational Japanese company or you're a multinational North American company,
your products and your supply is both aquaculture and wild today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a goody putting that, thank you. Is there
anything that excites you about the future of seafood.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's just everything that we've been talking about.
I think you can kind of hear the excitement in
my voice, which is, I think there's a great opportunity
for seafood to take a bigger share of that sort
of need for more protein around the world. And I
think there's every opportunity just just because of the story
behind seafood, and it's it's a healthy protein that's needed
around the world, and how that's presented will be the
key is to you know, how much how much share
of that pie seafood can get longer term?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And is there any misconceptions people have about modern
notion farming.
Speaker 2: I think there's obviously a lot of misperceptions, I mean,
and I think that's mostly based on past practices. I think, again,
the industry needs to do a better job of promoting
itself and all the things that they're doing when it
comes to responsible, environmentally friendly, sustainable practices, and so I think,
you know, I think it's more obviously there's always work
to be done to try to improve on that. But
I do think that the technology and the work that's
being done when it comes to sustainability is probably would,
if properly presented, would dispel a lot of those myths.
Speaker 1: Uh huh yeah. Yeah. And if there is there anything
you would if you had the opportunity to change about
the world the way the world thinks about seafood, what
would it be.
Speaker 2: Well, again, I think it's just it's it's pretty, it's
it's changing perception. I think it's changing perception around how
important aquaculture is as part of the overall seafood business.
There's still some headwinds from consumer acceptance perspective when it
comes to that. I think there's a lot of opportunity
to continue to advance that story and be able to
present that to tomorrow's consumer.
Speaker 1: And something that concerns me which maybe is not relevant
the same we described tuna, but modern seafood consumption is
how heavily the market focuses on only a few premier
cuts of particularly tuna. Is that something that you feel relevant?
Speaker 2: Not really? I mean, I mean, I think you know,
there's been a lot of advancement in terms of equipment
technology that have allowed for more variability in terms of cuts.
So you know, there's there's some really impressive innovations around
equipment manufacturing as it relates to the production of either
fresh or frozen seafood. So I don't see that as
being a barrier to growth. I think that's sort of
helped as it relates to offering consumers different cuts.
Speaker 1: Which under use parts of tuna. Do you believe deserve
greater culinary attention?
Speaker 2: Well, you know, we we do a lot of work
from a marketing perspective to really highlight different parts of
the tuna that that can be used. You know, I reference,
we have customers that are that want tuna eyes. We
you know, we we we do a lot of culinary work.
And when I say culinary work, like coming up with
recipe ideas for chefs around you know, different parts of
the head meat, but in general, as I said before,
tuna is a really high yielding fish. So a lot
of what we put in that box at the end
of the day gets gets used in one way or
the other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, could better utilization of tuna improve both sustainability and
profitability at the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and that's that's why we work on
that yielding side of the of the the business. That obviously,
the more of that fish that you can use, the
more profitable it is. That goes for really any species.
So yeah, I know we're we're constantly looking at ways too,
and we've got some new product development underway that we're
trying to utilize some other parts of the fish that
aren't being used in a big way today. So I
think that's where innovation and culinary innovation comes into play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as part of the challengeational to explain both chefs
on consumers who do appreciate different textures and flavors.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. I mean, our our core customer base today
are very well versed in bluefin tuna, but as we
try to expand into other restaurant concepts other segments of
the restaurant market. There's definitely an educational piece as to
I think there's there's two pieces. There's an educational piece,
but there's also an innovation piece. So you need to
develop products that make it easier for chefs to put
or consumers in a retail setting for them to consume
your fish. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in your view, do high end restaurants have a
responsibility to lead the way in full utilization a seafood?
Speaker 2: You mean, just in terms of the utilization of the fish.
I mean, I think ultimately they're what's that that's what's
driving the utilization of the fish. I mean, their economics
are so thin when it comes to running a restaurant,
so they want to get as much out of that
fish as they possibly can, and their food costs is
the ultimate driver of profitability within a restaurant setting. But
all restaurants operate on very thin margins. And so if
you can present them products that they know that they
can get almost full utilization of that fish, that's just
going to help your story and it's just going to
help you get on the menu.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you know, I feel quite strongly a bit
that I know I had the as I said, the
restaurant myself, but I feel they should utilize more and
more parts of everty face because EYE class that as
part of sustainability, because the restaurant has to survive so
that it continues to be a customer to the farm.
But yeah, you know, offer the seafood to their customers.
Speaker 2: Yep, No, I see what you're saying. I think I
think it. It definitely would be helpful. I do. I
also think though that it's it's an industry solution and
it's a you know, in my case or in our case.
You know, when we go to speak to new customers
to potentially get the product on the menu, one of
the parts of the sales presentation is exactly that, which is,
this is a product that is going to be very
expensive to buy, but here's how you can utilize all
of the fish, and here's what you can sell it
for to your consumer. So it becomes a very profitable
active proposition for chefs. So you know, I never go
into a customer presentation with hey, here's our fish and
it's the best. You had to bring way more to
the table than that. And so you know, coming with
yielding analysis, coming with profitability analysis showing different ways that
they can put our fish on their menu to make
it exciting for their patrons or their their consumers. Is
you know, it's part of what you need to bring
to the table to stand out versus everybody else.
Speaker 1: The only thing that I think, Andrew, when I hear
you saying that, is you're good to somebody. What a
what a position? That power you have and confidence because
you're the way what you said there is you're going
to tell people that it yours is the.
Speaker 4: Best m and you know in your heart or hearts
it is the best. Yep, that's a strong division it is.
That's why well, I love this business. But it's not again,
it's not by accident. It's it's because of all of
the pieces behind the business. Where I can you know,
I can take those fifteen slides that I want to
present to a new customer and I can speak very
confidently on every aspect of what we're doing, the quality
of the fish, the coal chain, the work that we're
doing behind trying to build build a brand, the farm operation,
the fishing operation, and then and the sustainability, Like here
are all the things today we probably are Rodrigo whom
you spoke with before, who's our sustainability officer. He's got
projects underway today that you know won't bear any fruit
until two or three years from now. So he's looking
out two or three years from now as ways to
make our product and our brand, uh, you know, top
of the list when it comes to sustainability. We have
fishery improvement projects underway on the on the sardines that
we catch. We're looking for MSc certification on sardines and
on the wildcot fishery. There's five or six projects at
the firm to reduce waste. All all of those things,
they all add up to a great story.
Speaker 1: It is a great story. I think it's a fantastic story,
and I think it's been helped by Jims Sibley with
some of the videos he's done on your site. It's
just done stunning, stunning.
Speaker 2: We've had a couple of James was one. I've never
met James. I'd like to meet him. I know that
you're going to speak to him at some stage, so
feel free to pass on my info. But I know
he's been. He's been to our firm. We've had a
number of other social media influencers that have come to
our firm recently, But again, we don't pay anybody. When
it comes to that, we're not paying people. It's not
an advertisement. We invite people to come and say, hey, look,
if you want to do a series on what we're doing,
we'll take you out there and we'll show you around.
But we don't have any like even with James as
an example, I know, we didn't have any editorial. Weren't
able to change his story. It was his story.
Speaker 1: I described them from these videos as a you may
I don't know if you'll know there was a toy here,
action many kid's toy, and I described them as a
real life action man see helicopters and diving.
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh exactly. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: Are there are cultures or countries that already do this
particularly well with the I could each the rest of
the world.
Speaker 2: Well, I think again, you know, in our business, it
all sort of flows from what's been built in Japan,
and so that's kind of unique in our business. But
part of the reason why I love that we still
do business in Japan is because it's really kind of
a badge of honor when it comes to as we
bring the product to other places in the world, and
to be able to say that we supply fresh blue
fin tuna to the Japanese market, which you can say
is the most discerning market from a consumer standpoint. That
that really helps us as we try to develop other
markets and as we build out our brand globally and
so you know we have an office in Japan. Well,
it's still a very important market for us, even though
it's a smaller percentage of our overall sales, but that's
really been more driven by growth elsewhere as opposed to
anything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, under where can our listeners follow you? On Lane?
Are active and social media platforms.
Speaker 2: Well, don't follow me because that's that would be boring,
but you could follow Blue but Blue. Our brand is
Blue is Blue Fena. So it's uh, we're on Instagram.
You just looked under the Blue Fena b l U
E f I n A. And so that's really where
we concentrate most of our efforts is through our Instagram account.
And uh, then that's again that's the brand that we
that we sell under today. Bob Aqua Firms is the
holding company, but our brand and the one that we
that we're really putting a push when it comes to
our marketing efforts is the is the Blue Fena Blue
Fena Instagram account.
Speaker 1: Brilliant, brilliant. Before we pulled up, I was just gonna
see it. We mentioned we earlier. I couldn't believe it.
I was going to be I'm talking to Andrew Young
and he's not Scottish. That the one thing I can
say the saving grace for you. If you were, they
would be calling you.
Speaker 2: Andy, Yes exactly, No, I would. No one ever called
me Andy. I think maybe a couple of teachers, but
that's about Actually when I was when I was in Scotland,
everybody called.
Speaker 1: Me and yeah I can imagine that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1: That okay, good, excellent. Well, I would just thank you
so much. And they look forward to actually believe it
or not. When you were saying that people come into
the site Manuel in the previous on our last recording,
he's actually invited me.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you gotta come. I'll make sure that I'm
there when you're there.
Speaker 1: Great, Well, thank you. Anytime I'm not going to say Andy,
I'm gonna say Andrew you, thank you, thank you so much.
That's been fascinating, and they will be in touched shortly
to tell because it will not belong till it's released,
and we'll be releasing the three together Rodrigo, Manuel, yourself
and James simply, we're going to tie that awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks Jem. I appreciate it having the day