WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Hollywood, a city aptly named Tinseltown because of all the

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<v Speaker 1>bright lights, shiny buildings, and of course, who can forget

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<v Speaker 1>the movie stars. Among these stars was one who was

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<v Speaker 1>beginning to shine brighter than most, ten year old Judith Barci. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you know her name or not, she was very

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<v Speaker 1>likely a part of your childhood, as she had significant

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<v Speaker 1>roles in the Land Before Time and all Dogs Go

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<v Speaker 1>to Heaven. But her light would soon be snuffed out

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<v Speaker 1>by the likes of her own father, simultaneously bringing a

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<v Speaker 1>bright future to a halt and two innocent lives to

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<v Speaker 1>an end.

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<v Speaker 2>Warning.

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<v Speaker 1>The following podcast contains graphic content and material intended for

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<v Speaker 1>a mature audience.

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<v Speaker 2>Listener discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back.

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<v Speaker 2>My name's Ben and I'm Nicole, and you're listening to

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<v Speaker 2>Wicket and Grim, a true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>You're gonna do it?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I wasn't ready. Way to fail.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go.

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<v Speaker 2>She's pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>That wasn't bad. That wasn't bad. Usually it's me making

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<v Speaker 1>that sound, but this time it's Nicole and I'm drinking

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<v Speaker 1>the waters.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I needed an alcoholic beverage of sorts.

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<v Speaker 1>Why is that stressed to the max or what oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been busy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's been busy fair enough.

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<v Speaker 1>But luckily you're going on vacation here next week, so

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<v Speaker 1>that's cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think that's what's stressing me out, that you're

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<v Speaker 2>going on vacation, well, because there's always so much done

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<v Speaker 2>before you go on vacation, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean you're not wrong, that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 2>But I suppose with that being said, so our next

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<v Speaker 2>Tuesday episode is actually going to be a special Q

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<v Speaker 2>and A edition yeap.

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<v Speaker 1>So we rather than Nicole going on vacation and we're

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<v Speaker 1>just like struggling and rushing an episode, we thought, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, we're going to take the week not have

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<v Speaker 1>an episode, but you know, instead of not delivering, we

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<v Speaker 1>thought Q and A option.

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<v Speaker 2>So so we already put posts up asking We got

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<v Speaker 2>over sixty questions. You guys are your answer? You to

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<v Speaker 2>know some things?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and that was only in like what twelve hours.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we'll see. I think a lot of them

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<v Speaker 2>are a little bit similar, so we'll try our best

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<v Speaker 2>to get through all of them. But yeah, gonna learn

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<v Speaker 2>a thing or two about us, I think definitely.

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<v Speaker 1>So we will be here next week. It'll just be

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a different episode for you guys,

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<v Speaker 1>so stay tuned for that. Also also highlight on the

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<v Speaker 1>Also also something dropped this morning, same time this episode

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<v Speaker 1>was released.

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<v Speaker 2>What was that?

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<v Speaker 1>The next stage of the Wicked giveaway?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my goodness.

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<v Speaker 1>So we're not sure if you're aware of it, or

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<v Speaker 1>if you've been participating or not, but we have talked

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<v Speaker 1>about doing a Wicked giveaway.

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<v Speaker 2>We've talked a lot about it. Actually, have we quite

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<v Speaker 2>a bit, Okay, throughout the last few months.

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<v Speaker 1>I think so, I think so. Well, it's as of

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<v Speaker 1>right now it's happening. I mean, weeks down the road,

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<v Speaker 1>months down the road, if you're listening in retrospect this episode,

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<v Speaker 1>it's probably over with then, But as of right now,

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<v Speaker 1>as this dropping, it's happening. So over on our website,

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<v Speaker 1>if you're curious about joining, you want to take part,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe win this epic giveaway prize, go to our website,

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<v Speaker 1>click the three question marks on the buttons. Do that,

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<v Speaker 1>follow the instructions, follow the riddles, the clues, the hints,

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<v Speaker 1>and you could win the first Wicked Box ever.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we also, are you going to release when?

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<v Speaker 2>Or when are we releasing What's in that Wicked Box?

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<v Speaker 1>Whenever I get the time to put the material together

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<v Speaker 1>to show it off.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because we did a little reel or something of sorts.

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<v Speaker 2>It's gonna be and yeah, we'd like to show off

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<v Speaker 2>what's in there. There's some pretty cool stuff. It's definitely

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<v Speaker 2>worth playing the game.

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<v Speaker 1>Hundred percent a part of it we already talked about.

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<v Speaker 1>You get the very first number one out of thirty.

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<v Speaker 1>It's marked because we did a batch of thirty artistsan

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<v Speaker 1>handmade mugs that say stay wicked. Holy heck, we found

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<v Speaker 1>her toy these dogs. We'll just leave her. It might

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<v Speaker 1>squeak here for a minute. We'll just leave her first

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<v Speaker 1>love her toys. But yeah, you'll get that epic mug,

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<v Speaker 1>the number one, the first ever one, among other things.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, yeah, hold on, Okay, I think Ripley's going

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<v Speaker 1>to just nap, So I think we're good.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, got the squeaky toys out of the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so all right, So yeah, join that giveaway over

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<v Speaker 1>on the website. We're on to stage four. There's not

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<v Speaker 1>a whole lot of stages left, so join up. See

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<v Speaker 1>if you can figure it out, go through it. It's

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be epic.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, very soon, someone's gonna walk away some some sweet things, some.

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<v Speaker 1>Sweet things indeed awesome. What else do you have to

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<v Speaker 1>talk with? Oh? The patrons, Oh my gosh.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it was a busy week for our patrons.

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<v Speaker 1>No kidding. So this past week we had a slew

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<v Speaker 1>of patrons join us over on Patreon. So a big

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<v Speaker 1>shout out too. We got b I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>that's a nickname or not, but I love it regardless.

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<v Speaker 1>Shiria McCrae. Hope I pronounced your name right, Sorry if

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't. Sarah frad Brie and John Cobb shout out

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<v Speaker 1>to you too. We actually go way back, those two

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<v Speaker 1>just saying I was there when they met.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew you were going to have to make a

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<v Speaker 2>comment on that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Elena Maine, Savannah Purdue, Isabelle and Letitia So thank you

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<v Speaker 1>so much, you guys for joining us over on Patreon.

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<v Speaker 1>If you want to show your support over there, you

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<v Speaker 1>can join us too, link down below. If not, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to just listen, totally cool, love that too.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so good. Thank you so much everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>Well you ready to get into today's episode.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Your intro has me very very intrigued.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's the point of the introduction.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, but I was just like two innocent lives. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm stuck on that line very much.

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<v Speaker 1>So you'll figure it out pretty quick, I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, good, good, good. You're not gonna leave us hanging

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<v Speaker 2>too long here.

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<v Speaker 1>No, there's not a lot of mystery in this case.

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<v Speaker 1>It is very straightforward. You pretty much know what's going

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<v Speaker 1>to happen. You're gonna call it. But it's a tragic,

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<v Speaker 1>tragic tale that I think needs to be out there.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well, I was just going to say not that this.

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to be like, this is not a

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<v Speaker 2>very ben episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Then it's not.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually you leave us hanging until the very end, or

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<v Speaker 2>you don't even freaking tell us anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I will say this that it's a very ben episode.

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<v Speaker 1>In regards to childhood, cartoons and stuff are very much

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<v Speaker 1>big part of my life. I have childhood cartoons tattooed

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<v Speaker 1>on my arms. For example, you don't say one of

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<v Speaker 1>the cartoons we're discussing in this episode, Land before Time.

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<v Speaker 1>I even have plans for future Land before Time tattoos.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh so it's been okay, I would actually like to

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<v Speaker 2>watch that again. It's been too long.

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<v Speaker 1>We watched it last year before we left her other house.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, okay, well that's apparently I don't remember that clearly.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm totally up for watching it again, doing

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<v Speaker 1>it me wrong.

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<v Speaker 2>I can watch it like, well, there's numerous ones of

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<v Speaker 2>that one, right, Oh, there's like ten, and watch them

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<v Speaker 2>all though. No, okay, so there are you.

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<v Speaker 1>The first one is the only one that matters.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh gosh, okay, of course you'd think that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, it goes downhill from there. Well not. It's very

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<v Speaker 1>much more kid orient. It's I don't know, new age cartoon.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it's different. It's very different.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyways, that aside, let's get into this. So on the outside,

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<v Speaker 1>Judith Barci seemed to have it all. She was a

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<v Speaker 1>ten year old girl, but yet she was a rising

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<v Speaker 1>name in the Hollywood industry. She had an impressive resume

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<v Speaker 1>with multiple movie and TV roles. She made an appearance

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<v Speaker 1>on the memorable TV show Cheers, the cult classic film

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<v Speaker 1>series Jaws The Revenge. She was in that movie most notably,

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<v Speaker 1>as we were just talking about, she would lend her

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<v Speaker 1>voice to start in animated movies and become Ducky from

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<v Speaker 1>the Land Before Time and the beloved orphan girl Anne

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<v Speaker 1>Marie from All Dogs Go to Heaven.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, we just watched that show.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually we did watch it aunt too long ago. But

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<v Speaker 1>as we know, things are often not always as they seem.

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<v Speaker 1>She may be a rising star, but behind closed doors

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<v Speaker 1>of her home she lived with a monster. Her father.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez.

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<v Speaker 1>So. Judith Barzi was born in sunny Los Angeles, California,

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<v Speaker 1>on June sixth of nineteen seventy eight. She was the

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<v Speaker 1>daughter of Joseph Barcie and Maria Barsie. Now, unlike their daughter,

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<v Speaker 1>though they were not born in North America, they were

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<v Speaker 1>not born in the United States. The two were born

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<v Speaker 1>and immigrated to the US. They were born in Hungary, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So as they fled from Hungary, they fled from the

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<v Speaker 1>Hungarians Republic, which was under the influence of the Soviet

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<v Speaker 1>Union in the nineteen fifties. Now they fled following the

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty six countrywide revolution against the Hungarian government in

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<v Speaker 1>the nineteen fifties. Now, as terrible of a situation this is,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a picture perfect image I think we may all

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<v Speaker 1>have in her head at this moment, a husband and

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<v Speaker 1>wife fleeing from the country together with nothing but each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Now they didn't even actually have each other. The two

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<v Speaker 1>immigrated separately. They escaped their country on their own.

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<v Speaker 2>So the two but did they know each other prior

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<v Speaker 2>to escaping?

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<v Speaker 1>Then no, they did not. Okay, so they immigrated completely

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<v Speaker 1>separately different times. But once they were both in the US,

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<v Speaker 1>they would eventually meet up and meet each other at

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<v Speaker 1>a restaurant in California where Maria was working as a waitress.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's kind of cool.

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<v Speaker 1>It is here the new couple began their new life together,

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<v Speaker 1>chasing the fabled American dream. And we all know what

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<v Speaker 1>the American dream is, right. I don't think many of

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<v Speaker 1>us can really put it into words, but we know

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<v Speaker 1>what it is exactly. It's owning your own peace of land.

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<v Speaker 1>It's having your dream job, it's having your dream car,

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<v Speaker 1>it's raising the right family, all these stipulations that are

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<v Speaker 1>different for everybody, but it's that same feeling, that same

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<v Speaker 1>burning desire desire for these successes in your life. And

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<v Speaker 1>success can be measured differently from everybody, but we all

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<v Speaker 1>have that idea what the American dream is, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>what they were yearning for now. Maria in particular was

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<v Speaker 1>dazzled by the stars in nearby Hollywood and as a

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<v Speaker 1>years past Judith would be born. Now, Maria was determined

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<v Speaker 1>to help guide her daughter towards stardom and a career

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<v Speaker 1>in acting. She taught Judith everything she could as at

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<v Speaker 1>a very young age. Her teaching would begin at the

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<v Speaker 1>age of five, and her teaching would include things like

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<v Speaker 1>proper posture, emploise, how to speak and articulate things that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, a bright young movie star would meet in

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<v Speaker 1>her career.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, kind of sounds awful though, but okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Kind of sounds awful.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't know. That just sounds like not like

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<v Speaker 2>them running around having fun making mud pies.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, to be fair, this wasn't a scenario where we

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<v Speaker 1>see in like reality TV shows today with like the

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<v Speaker 1>mother who's forcing these things on their daughter so they

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<v Speaker 1>can live vi curiously through their daughter. It was like

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<v Speaker 1>out of love and compassion.

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<v Speaker 2>So it was like a hobby they shared together. Potentially.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they both enjoyed it. They both loved it, and

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't like a pushy thing. You know. She wanted

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<v Speaker 1>the best for her daughter, so she guided her in

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<v Speaker 1>a loving and caring and motherly way.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay, yeah, so it.

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<v Speaker 1>Wasn't in any sort of negative context as far as

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<v Speaker 1>I could find anyways.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yeah, because they literally just like went to the pageant. No,

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<v Speaker 2>well definitely not say moms, but they're not all like that.

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<v Speaker 2>But just like the ones you see on TV's that's.

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<v Speaker 1>What I mean. Yeah, it's not that stereotypical reality TV

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<v Speaker 1>show things. It's not that. Okay, No, and even if

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<v Speaker 1>that's what it's like in the real world, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know that's what we just see on TV could be

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<v Speaker 1>painted that way.

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<v Speaker 2>Who's Oh my gosh, those shows they do they do

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<v Speaker 2>things for a reason, right, to get those viewers.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. But I'm just trying to give them the

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<v Speaker 1>benefit of the doubt. But no, yeah, you're right anyways,

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<v Speaker 1>even though those around them would like scoff them off

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<v Speaker 1>and say, like the odds of success are literally one

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<v Speaker 1>in ten thousand. Yeah, they pursued, they pushed forward, and

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<v Speaker 1>they still went for it, which I do like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I do too, And I do want to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>this for a brief second. Why is it always that

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<v Speaker 1>those who are closest to you knock your.

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<v Speaker 2>Dream Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you shouldn't do this because it's the odds of

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<v Speaker 1>success are one in ten thousands, so don't waste your.

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<v Speaker 2>Fucking It's not even always the people that are closest

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<v Speaker 2>to you though. It can be anyone though, too, that

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't even know you.

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<v Speaker 1>That's true. But also I find the most support generally

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<v Speaker 1>comes from people you don't know very well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Usually they don't well yeah, everyone just seems like

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<v Speaker 2>who knows you? Potentially is I don't know, but they

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<v Speaker 2>question your they know your history, I suppose right, so

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<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, they can't do that kind of thing,

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<v Speaker 2>or or they remember how you were and you possibly

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<v Speaker 2>can't change, right, A person cannot possibly change.

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<v Speaker 1>People can change.

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<v Speaker 2>But they very much so can and they should.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyways, I hate when people say you can't do this.

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<v Speaker 1>It's it almost makes me want to do it, just

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<v Speaker 1>to tell them like, fuck you, I did it.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, just like a super side story because when I

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<v Speaker 2>said strangers do that too, Because remember when I had

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<v Speaker 2>phoned a certain person about tiny home living. Oh yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>ask some questions and they are basically like you watch

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<v Speaker 2>too much HGTV.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, shout out to that cunt.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And it was just like, wow, how can you

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<v Speaker 2>just be like so rude and smash on someone's dreams.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, it's unbelievable. Let's just like not be like that,

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<v Speaker 2>No kidding.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyways, moving on from that. Luckily, though, Judith's luck, or

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<v Speaker 1>perhaps destiny, was on her side. As it often happens

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<v Speaker 1>in Los Angeles, someone just so happened to be filming

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<v Speaker 1>a TV commercial at the San Fernando Valley skating rink

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<v Speaker 1>where Judith just so happened to be ice skating that day.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh wow.

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<v Speaker 1>So the film crew was doing their thing, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they're setting up, getting shots and all this, and they

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<v Speaker 1>just so happened to spot the small, cute Judith gliding

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<v Speaker 1>effortly across the ice, and they quickly jumped in and

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<v Speaker 1>offered her to be a part of the commercial.

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<v Speaker 2>Seriously, just like that, Okay, that seems a little bit lucky.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, It's like picture perfect. It's like, that's like what

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<v Speaker 1>you see in movies.

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<v Speaker 2>Hollywood's like totally, that's exactly the right time.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's exactly how her spark of her career ignited.

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<v Speaker 1>That's how she got going in the in the film industry,

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<v Speaker 1>was from this skating incident into a TV commercial.

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<v Speaker 2>And was she just there skating for fun, like it

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<v Speaker 2>was just a fun thing, I believe sh yeah, yeah, wow, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So from there, of course, her career, like I said,

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00:15:05.559 --> 00:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>it sparked and it grew. She quickly signed her first

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<v Speaker 1>contract at an acting agency, the Harry Gold and Associates

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<v Speaker 1>talent Agency. She starred in a total of over seventy

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<v Speaker 1>commercials in her career. Casting directors couldn't get enough of

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<v Speaker 1>this cute little girl. She was adorable, a brilliant actor,

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<v Speaker 1>took direction very easily, she was easy to work with,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were most of all enchanted by her small size.

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<v Speaker 1>She was just so cute and adorable, t very.

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<v Speaker 2>Petite and sorry you said, sixty commercials.

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<v Speaker 1>Over seventy commercials, oh oh yeah, oh yeah, right on.

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<v Speaker 1>Good for her. So, being so petite and small, she

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<v Speaker 1>was able to fill roles of much younger kids. So

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<v Speaker 1>Ruth Hansen, who is Judith's agent, explained that this meant

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<v Speaker 1>the director didn't need to work with children who were

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<v Speaker 1>easily distracted, or were younger or didn't understand what was

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<v Speaker 1>being asked of them. So at the age of ten,

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<v Speaker 1>Judith was able to easily pass for being like seven

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<v Speaker 1>or eight years old. So rather than having to work

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<v Speaker 1>with a seven year old actor, they can work with

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<v Speaker 1>an experienced ten year old actor.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, that actually makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>So the directors ate this up now. Ruth, who was

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<v Speaker 1>Judith's agent, also described Judith as I quote, happy, bubbly

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<v Speaker 1>little girl.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, sounds just Adorable's heck, I want to

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<v Speaker 2>look up a picture of her.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, she's absolutely adorable. And if, like I say, if

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<v Speaker 1>you watch her acting or if you hear her voice

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<v Speaker 1>acting like it's it's a part of my childhood. Like

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<v Speaker 1>I can hear that voice at any time if I want,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's just it's so adorable. Yeah, it melts my

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<v Speaker 1>fucking heart. I should note, though, that Judith only stood

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00:16:50.399 --> 00:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>three foot eight inches tall, so being very petite now

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<v Speaker 1>at the age of ten, that's how tall she was. Comparatively,

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<v Speaker 1>The average ten year old girl, according to a quick

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00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Google search anyways, is approximately four foot five inches tall.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, thank you for that, beuse. I was like, I

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<v Speaker 2>have no idea if that's remotely normal.

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<v Speaker 1>So she was almost an entire foot shorter than the

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<v Speaker 1>average girl.

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<v Speaker 2>Coach.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, Judith was definitely small, small enough in fact, that

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00:17:17.440 --> 00:17:20.519
<v Speaker 1>she was actually receiving hormone injections in her personal life

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<v Speaker 1>to help her grow and develop properly. So just a

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<v Speaker 1>little side note to show exactly, you know how small

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<v Speaker 1>she was for her age.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, like that was like a normal thing there, trying.

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<v Speaker 1>To yeah, okay, yeah, it was just kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>she needs some hormones like help get her body developing

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<v Speaker 1>normally as a normal ten year old.

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<v Speaker 2>Medication of sorts, exactly. Now.

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<v Speaker 1>Judith's first a big role was in Fatal Vision. It

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<v Speaker 1>was a nineteen eighty four TV mini series, and this

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<v Speaker 1>role may very well have been a very haunting foreshadowing

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<v Speaker 1>of what was to come for Judith. You see, Judith

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00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:59.839
<v Speaker 1>played a daughter in the show who was murdered by

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<v Speaker 1>her father. Oh gosh, a fate that would become all

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<v Speaker 1>too real in Judith's future.

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<v Speaker 2>Shit, And I actually think I figured something from the intro,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm keeping I'll keep it to myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's hear your theory, let's hear it. I won't I

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<v Speaker 1>won't say a word. I'll just you say your theory well,

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<v Speaker 1>and then I'll just can I don't know, you're.

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<v Speaker 2>Just talking about the mom so much. So like when

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<v Speaker 2>I had to reask about how many commercials she was

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<v Speaker 2>in is because my mind was somewhere else about Holy shit,

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<v Speaker 2>like two innocent victims? Is the mom the other victim?

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<v Speaker 2>That's my thought.

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<v Speaker 1>Now well, like I said, I'm not gonna respond to that.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna just keep reading.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, we'll overhead.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, after this role, she began booking more and more

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<v Speaker 1>gigs where she would be most notably paid part as

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<v Speaker 1>like I said, Lamb before time, all dogs go to

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<v Speaker 1>Heaven and Jaws the Revenge. Now. Wow, all this was

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<v Speaker 1>going on, Judith was making a very good living, especially

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<v Speaker 1>for the likes of a little girl. Well I could

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<v Speaker 1>imagine she was earning an estimated one hundred thousand US

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<v Speaker 1>dollars per year, which is equivalent to approximately two hundred

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00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:08.559
<v Speaker 1>and thirty thousand dollars today. Wow, which is much more

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<v Speaker 1>than I make. So I'm jealous of that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's incredible.

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00:19:11.759 --> 00:19:15.640
<v Speaker 1>That's absolutely incredible, especially for someone in their single digit agent.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, absolutely, like that could just set you up for

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<v Speaker 2>your whole life.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, oh one hundred percent. So this helped their family

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<v Speaker 1>buy a nice, modest, three bedroom house at twenty two

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred Michael Street in the Canogna, Canaga Canaga Park

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<v Speaker 1>neighborhood at the western edge of the San Fernando Valley

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<v Speaker 1>in the western hills of Los Angeles.

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<v Speaker 2>So wow, that's a mulful.

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<v Speaker 1>It is well done, thank you. Beautiful neighborhood, beautiful home,

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00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:45.440
<v Speaker 1>but like not too like show body, Just a nice

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00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:48.759
<v Speaker 1>modest home and a nice gorgeous neighborhood, right Okay. So

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<v Speaker 1>I do also want to mention this, Things are not

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<v Speaker 1>always as they appear. I already said that, but I

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00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.480
<v Speaker 1>want to just highlight that because on the outside, her

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00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.200
<v Speaker 1>life just seemed to picture perfect. She was making great income,

403
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:06.160
<v Speaker 1>she's providing for her own family, great career ahead of her,

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00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.240
<v Speaker 1>She's a gorgeous little girl, and everyone loves her. But

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00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.880
<v Speaker 1>not everything's perfect. So this wasn't the case.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm getting uncomfortable now.

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00:20:17.359 --> 00:20:20.039
<v Speaker 1>While her career in future were getting brighter and brighter,

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00:20:20.119 --> 00:20:24.160
<v Speaker 1>her home life was getting darker and darker. Behind the

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00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.839
<v Speaker 1>closed doors, both Judith and her mother Maria suffered at

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00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:33.839
<v Speaker 1>the hands of Judath's father, Joseph. Now, Joseph was struggling himself.

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00:20:34.400 --> 00:20:36.480
<v Speaker 1>He was having trouble finding a job, and when he

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<v Speaker 1>did find a job, he was having trouble keeping that job.

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<v Speaker 1>In his frustrations, he turned to alcohol and would become

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00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:50.119
<v Speaker 1>an alcoholic and was very quick to anger. Allegedly, Joseph

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00:20:50.200 --> 00:20:52.880
<v Speaker 1>claimed to have served time in New York for killing

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00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:56.119
<v Speaker 1>a man. However, no such records of this crime or

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00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:00.720
<v Speaker 1>jail time were ever found. But regardless of that, his

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00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:03.319
<v Speaker 1>drinking did get out of hand and did lead to

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<v Speaker 1>three different arrests for drunk driving. Joseph drinking was becoming

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<v Speaker 1>a major problem. He had become increasingly aggressive and would

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<v Speaker 1>routinely threaten to kill himself, kill his wife, and kill

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<v Speaker 1>his daughter.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh no, no, no, yes, yes no. Don't like this, Well,

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00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:27.319
<v Speaker 2>of course you don't like it.

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00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:29.920
<v Speaker 1>This is a true crime podcast, I know, but.

426
00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.960
<v Speaker 2>This is shitty. I just hate this already.

427
00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Where it's going, it's not fun.

428
00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.359
<v Speaker 2>I want okay, I'm just gonna say something really quick.

429
00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:42.720
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if like him not having you may even

430
00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:45.359
<v Speaker 2>get to this, but him not having any success and

431
00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.160
<v Speaker 2>his ten year old daughter having all the success pissed

432
00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:49.640
<v Speaker 2>him off.

433
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.960
<v Speaker 1>That is a very large theory. And if I'm going

434
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.720
<v Speaker 1>to be honest, I had that information in the back

435
00:21:54.759 --> 00:21:56.319
<v Speaker 1>of my head. I wasn't sure where I was going

436
00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:58.000
<v Speaker 1>to fit it in here. So since you brought it up,

437
00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 1>let's talk about it.

438
00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.559
<v Speaker 2>Now, because I could have that would not go over

439
00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.720
<v Speaker 2>well for the person you just described exactly.

440
00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:09.440
<v Speaker 1>So he was having very much so difficulties finding a

441
00:22:09.519 --> 00:22:12.519
<v Speaker 1>job holding a job. However, his daughter was having very

442
00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:18.200
<v Speaker 1>much so extreme success, like one in ten thousand success,

443
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:21.880
<v Speaker 1>but he couldn't even find anything. So now not only

444
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:24.759
<v Speaker 1>is his daughter successful and he's not, but his daughter

445
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:28.000
<v Speaker 1>is supporting him. He's not supporting his daughter, he's not

446
00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.559
<v Speaker 1>supporting his wife. Everything is being supported off their daughter's income.

447
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:36.599
<v Speaker 2>So, which isn't that like every parent's dream?

448
00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:40.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, hell yeah, But I think there's a certain

449
00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:42.880
<v Speaker 1>amount of dignity that goes with oh yeah, especially in

450
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.839
<v Speaker 1>that day and age. You know, we're talking like the

451
00:22:44.880 --> 00:22:48.799
<v Speaker 1>mid eighties right now, So there's that you know, working class,

452
00:22:48.839 --> 00:22:51.279
<v Speaker 1>that blue collar the man provides sort of thing.

453
00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:51.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

454
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.279
<v Speaker 1>So if you are supposed to be the man of

455
00:22:54.319 --> 00:22:56.440
<v Speaker 1>the house and you're supposed to be the one providing

456
00:22:57.119 --> 00:23:00.079
<v Speaker 1>and you can't, but yet a little girl is doing

457
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:00.680
<v Speaker 1>it for you.

458
00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like if she was an adult, it probably wouldn't

459
00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:04.680
<v Speaker 2>have been quite as.

460
00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:06.079
<v Speaker 1>It probably would have been bad too.

461
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:08.279
<v Speaker 2>But I thought to the extent of it being a

462
00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:09.839
<v Speaker 2>ten year old though, in my opinion.

463
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:12.319
<v Speaker 1>No, you're right, but I would assume that it would

464
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:14.559
<v Speaker 1>still affect him. Maybe not as bad, but I would

465
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:21.079
<v Speaker 1>assume it would. But all around, I'm sure he felt emasculated, guaranteed.

466
00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which is not correct in my opinion.

467
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:27.400
<v Speaker 1>No, No, he shouldn't feel that way, but I can

468
00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.759
<v Speaker 1>understand that the whole societal pressures at that time could

469
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:31.920
<v Speaker 1>make someone feel that way.

470
00:23:32.000 --> 00:23:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, totally.

471
00:23:35.720 --> 00:23:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't mean that you should feel that way, but I

472
00:23:37.240 --> 00:23:38.880
<v Speaker 1>could see that pressure being that way, you know what

473
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:39.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean?

474
00:23:39.240 --> 00:23:42.599
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, yeah, And I mean some people could feel

475
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.720
<v Speaker 2>that pressure more than others. Some in that same situation

476
00:23:45.759 --> 00:23:48.039
<v Speaker 2>would have been just like hell yeah.

477
00:23:48.319 --> 00:23:50.519
<v Speaker 1>I would have been like hell yeah, you go, little girl.

478
00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what could I do? Let's make more money, Let's

479
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 2>just help the situation get even bigger.

480
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I would be like, I'm gonna become an acting

481
00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:00.400
<v Speaker 1>agent or something like that, and I'm going to work

482
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:01.759
<v Speaker 1>for you and like let's do this.

483
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like just awesome. I feel like that's such a dream.

484
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.359
<v Speaker 1>But you need someone on your makeup team. I'm your man.

485
00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:10.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm now make partisans exactly.

486
00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:15.799
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that's that's very much a very large theory

487
00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:20.880
<v Speaker 1>behind his motive with this. So one of Joseph's friends

488
00:24:21.039 --> 00:24:26.119
<v Speaker 1>named Peter Kivlan recalled that Joseph told him hundreds of times,

489
00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.880
<v Speaker 1>and let me repeat that, hundreds of times that he

490
00:24:30.960 --> 00:24:32.200
<v Speaker 1>wanted to kill his wife.

491
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:33.160
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

492
00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Peter would later say, and I quote, I'd try to

493
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:40.440
<v Speaker 1>calm him down. I'd tell him, if you kill her,

494
00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.279
<v Speaker 1>what's going to happen to your little one? Now. However,

495
00:24:44.440 --> 00:24:48.200
<v Speaker 1>this didn't comfort Joseph or stop his evil words that

496
00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:48.759
<v Speaker 1>he was saying.

497
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:50.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because he didn't give a shit about her either.

498
00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.759
<v Speaker 1>Joseph would simply reply, I quote, I got to kill her.

499
00:24:55.640 --> 00:25:01.160
<v Speaker 2>Too, jeezuz okay, that is too many times to not

500
00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:04.400
<v Speaker 2>do anything. Yep, gosh, oh okay.

501
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Speaker 1>And that there's so many things or there's so many

502
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:10.920
<v Speaker 1>patterns throughout true crime, and this is one of the

503
00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:13.799
<v Speaker 1>biggest ones is people don't speak up.

504
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:16.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, they don't believe that the persons actually going to

505
00:25:16.160 --> 00:25:18.039
<v Speaker 2>go through with it. But I mean, like, gosh, maybe

506
00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 2>the fiftieth fucking time that they said that, maybe surt believing,

507
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:25.759
<v Speaker 2>not hundreds or even the freaking tenth time, even the

508
00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:27.519
<v Speaker 2>fifth time, for God's sakes.

509
00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So I mean, we really need to be aware

510
00:25:31.200 --> 00:25:34.279
<v Speaker 1>of other people and what they're discussing. Sure, maybe they

511
00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 1>are joking, but.

512
00:25:35.519 --> 00:25:37.039
<v Speaker 2>Maybe there's some maybe they're not.

513
00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they're not, maybe there is a sliver of truth

514
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:42.319
<v Speaker 1>rooted in it. Maybe they're going through some sort of

515
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.640
<v Speaker 1>mental health thing that you don't know about, and this

516
00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>is speaking from that. We got to try and listen

517
00:25:49.440 --> 00:25:53.000
<v Speaker 1>to people and take those words to heart, because clearly

518
00:25:53.039 --> 00:25:57.440
<v Speaker 1>these are words being spoken truthfully quite more often than

519
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>we realize at times.

520
00:25:58.799 --> 00:25:59.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, for sure.

521
00:26:00.880 --> 00:26:05.440
<v Speaker 1>So Joseph's threats varied, but they were always malicious. They

522
00:26:05.440 --> 00:26:10.279
<v Speaker 1>included killing Judith and letting Maria live so she could

523
00:26:10.319 --> 00:26:13.839
<v Speaker 1>live with the loss of her daughter. Wow, killing them

524
00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:17.319
<v Speaker 1>both by cutting their throats. Wow, okay, and burning down

525
00:26:17.319 --> 00:26:18.079
<v Speaker 1>the house.

526
00:26:19.720 --> 00:26:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Right on.

527
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:25.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's great, very fatherly type words of encouragement.

528
00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that is the last thing that should be coming

529
00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:29.960
<v Speaker 2>out of a father's.

530
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:31.759
<v Speaker 1>Mouth any one's for that matter, anytimes.

531
00:26:31.799 --> 00:26:34.119
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, like this is his wife and daughter. Are

532
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:34.920
<v Speaker 2>you fucking kidding me?

533
00:26:35.079 --> 00:26:36.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's disgusting.

534
00:26:36.559 --> 00:26:38.759
<v Speaker 2>I have to take my jacket off. I'm getting hot now.

535
00:26:39.440 --> 00:26:41.039
<v Speaker 1>Getting pissed off at Joseph.

536
00:26:41.240 --> 00:26:42.079
<v Speaker 2>It's too much.

537
00:26:43.119 --> 00:26:45.920
<v Speaker 1>Ready for a row rolling up your sleeves, gonna bust

538
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:47.000
<v Speaker 1>some fucking knuckles on something.

539
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:49.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hope he gets what's coming to him already.

540
00:26:49.279 --> 00:26:50.160
<v Speaker 2>I feel this way.

541
00:26:50.759 --> 00:26:54.279
<v Speaker 1>Well. Joseph also apparently had a bit of a passive

542
00:26:54.279 --> 00:26:57.920
<v Speaker 1>aggressive side to him as well. Allegedly he hit a

543
00:26:58.039 --> 00:27:01.319
<v Speaker 1>letter from Maria, a letter that she had received from

544
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:07.279
<v Speaker 1>family back in Ukraine. Now, the letter was informing her

545
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:10.680
<v Speaker 1>that a relative of hers had passed away, and he

546
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.480
<v Speaker 1>hid this letter from her to prevent her from leaving

547
00:27:13.519 --> 00:27:16.119
<v Speaker 1>the country and not coming back to him.

548
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:22.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, so he has some oh what self esteem issues?

549
00:27:22.359 --> 00:27:25.279
<v Speaker 1>We've got some serious issues all around. Yeah, and like

550
00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:27.599
<v Speaker 1>you said, self estee, which would probably boil right back

551
00:27:27.640 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 1>down to his daughter providing for him and him not

552
00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:30.519
<v Speaker 1>being able to have a job.

553
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I mean, gosh, she has like why does

554
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:36.160
<v Speaker 2>he just assume she's gonna leave him? Like she has

555
00:27:36.200 --> 00:27:39.279
<v Speaker 2>a relative that she missed the opportunity to go and

556
00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:41.400
<v Speaker 2>say go bye to or put to rest or whatever.

557
00:27:41.559 --> 00:27:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Why the fuck wouldn't she leave him?

558
00:27:44.119 --> 00:27:47.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? I mean she should, but it's just like that's

559
00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:51.039
<v Speaker 2>taking quite an opportunity away from a person in my opinion.

560
00:27:51.279 --> 00:27:57.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, he's clearly a very malicious, controlling monster, honestly monster.

561
00:27:57.519 --> 00:27:58.680
<v Speaker 2>They didn't just leave him.

562
00:27:58.960 --> 00:28:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well we'll get into that, okay. Now, this actually

563
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:06.880
<v Speaker 1>wasn't the first instant Joseph actually had with these issues, though.

564
00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:11.400
<v Speaker 1>Before he moved to the US from Hungary, he had

565
00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:16.279
<v Speaker 1>moved to France where he had another marriage. Now together,

566
00:28:16.359 --> 00:28:18.759
<v Speaker 1>in that marriage, he had two kids with this woman,

567
00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.400
<v Speaker 1>and Joseph began a very similar abuse of alcohol and

568
00:28:22.440 --> 00:28:26.680
<v Speaker 1>spier spiral lying out of control. Eventually, though, this woman

569
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.160
<v Speaker 1>did leave Joseph with her two kids and they moved

570
00:28:29.359 --> 00:28:34.279
<v Speaker 1>to the United States, to Arizona. Now this actually led

571
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:38.200
<v Speaker 1>Joseph to move to the United States as well. He

572
00:28:38.279 --> 00:28:45.000
<v Speaker 1>actually chased down this woman, followed hers and reluctantly she

573
00:28:45.200 --> 00:28:47.160
<v Speaker 1>gave him a second chance in their relationship.

574
00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:49.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's shit. I wasn't expecting that.

575
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:51.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But in all honesty, it was probably more of

576
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:53.960
<v Speaker 1>a second chance for their children than it was more

577
00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:56.519
<v Speaker 1>a second chance for him. You know, that's fair, an

578
00:28:56.559 --> 00:28:59.400
<v Speaker 1>opportunity for them to have a father. Yeah, that's that's

579
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.880
<v Speaker 1>my assumption, And I don't know, I can't speak firsthand

580
00:29:01.880 --> 00:29:04.279
<v Speaker 1>on that, but that's what I would assume it is.

581
00:29:04.359 --> 00:29:09.119
<v Speaker 1>More so either way, though, it didn't last long. He

582
00:29:09.240 --> 00:29:11.720
<v Speaker 1>quite literally took this second chance and threw it in

583
00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:14.880
<v Speaker 1>her face. And he did so by in a drunken

584
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:18.039
<v Speaker 1>fit of rage, throwing a cast iron pan in her

585
00:29:18.079 --> 00:29:21.000
<v Speaker 1>face a castle.

586
00:29:21.119 --> 00:29:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Those bitches are heavy.

587
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:24.559
<v Speaker 1>Those bitches are head.

588
00:29:24.599 --> 00:29:27.559
<v Speaker 2>They're really heavy, Yes they are. I just lifted one

589
00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:29.000
<v Speaker 2>the other day. I was like, holy shit, why are

590
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:29.599
<v Speaker 2>we gonna.

591
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Have this, because it's amazing.

592
00:29:31.480 --> 00:29:32.960
<v Speaker 2>It's a murder weapon and a half.

593
00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:37.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, they definitely are. After that, though, it was

594
00:29:37.599 --> 00:29:40.480
<v Speaker 1>no more chances. Divorce was immediately filed and the two

595
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 1>went their own ways.

596
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Good. Okay, she dodged a serious bullet, Yes, she did.

597
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:48.759
<v Speaker 1>So. In December of nineteen eighty six. So we're back

598
00:29:48.799 --> 00:29:51.400
<v Speaker 1>to the relationship with Maria and Joseph here now again.

599
00:29:51.960 --> 00:29:56.480
<v Speaker 1>So Maria was feeling the same as Joseph's previous previous wife.

600
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.640
<v Speaker 1>She was trapped and she was afraid. She fin decided

601
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:03.039
<v Speaker 1>she needs some help and she turned to the police.

602
00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.119
<v Speaker 1>She reported in the threats of him wanting to kill

603
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:10.920
<v Speaker 1>her and their daughter, the physical and mental abuse and violence.

604
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:14.960
<v Speaker 1>She reported it all to the authorities. Now quickly an

605
00:30:15.039 --> 00:30:20.680
<v Speaker 1>investigation was issued. However, police found no signs of any

606
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.519
<v Speaker 1>sort of physical abuse, and they didn't have much of

607
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.319
<v Speaker 1>a case if they don't have evidence, So as it

608
00:30:26.400 --> 00:30:29.480
<v Speaker 1>comes down to it, just like many other cases of abuse,

609
00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.359
<v Speaker 1>it's simply her word against his work.

610
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:33.559
<v Speaker 2>Oh jeez.

611
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:37.200
<v Speaker 1>So Maria decided she wasn't going to press any charges

612
00:30:37.839 --> 00:30:39.279
<v Speaker 1>and the case was dropped.

613
00:30:40.400 --> 00:30:42.880
<v Speaker 2>Wow, Okay, that's devastating.

614
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:47.680
<v Speaker 1>That's absolutely devastating, seriously unfortunate because she's not the only one.

615
00:30:47.759 --> 00:30:50.000
<v Speaker 1>People go through that on a day to day basis,

616
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Like how it's his word against mine, it's her word

617
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.599
<v Speaker 1>against mine, it's their word, Like who's to say, right, Yeah,

618
00:30:56.640 --> 00:31:01.559
<v Speaker 1>And it's so unfortunate. So after the incident with the police,

619
00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:06.119
<v Speaker 1>though Joseph reportedly did stop drinking, it seems he may

620
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 1>have been trying to clean himself up. Maybe he had

621
00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 1>been trying to do better, who knows. However, though his

622
00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:16.519
<v Speaker 1>true colors showed. Even though he wasn't under the influence anymore,

623
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:20.680
<v Speaker 1>he still continued to threaten Maria and Judith. Now, without

624
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:23.279
<v Speaker 1>the crutch of alcohol to blame for his actions, Joseph

625
00:31:23.440 --> 00:31:26.559
<v Speaker 1>was now simply a monster all on his own.

626
00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:30.119
<v Speaker 2>So really, even with him not being drunk or whatever,

627
00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:31.480
<v Speaker 2>he still doesn't complain asshole.

628
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>Right without the influence, he was still a violent monster

629
00:31:36.279 --> 00:31:37.079
<v Speaker 1>towards his family.

630
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:37.680
<v Speaker 2>Awesome.

631
00:31:38.039 --> 00:31:43.079
<v Speaker 1>Yep, maybe it's just now that's just who he'd become.

632
00:31:43.160 --> 00:31:45.400
<v Speaker 1>It was just this is what he does, and he's

633
00:31:45.440 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>just kind of stuck in this rut and he just

634
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:50.759
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but it's what he's used to. Not

635
00:31:50.799 --> 00:31:53.079
<v Speaker 1>an excuse, but maybe that's kind of where his mind led.

636
00:31:53.279 --> 00:31:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Well, it almost seems like he might have needed help.

637
00:31:56.319 --> 00:31:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Oh, I definitely he needed a lot of help, that's

638
00:31:59.359 --> 00:32:04.720
<v Speaker 1>for sure. So Judith was of course terrified of her father,

639
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and rightfully so. She would openly tell her friends about

640
00:32:08.799 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 1>the things she endured at home. One event, for example,

641
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>she would tell a friend that her father threw pots

642
00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:17.680
<v Speaker 1>and pans at her when he was upset, which resulted

643
00:32:17.720 --> 00:32:22.279
<v Speaker 1>in her getting a bloody nose. Judith also told friends

644
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:26.160
<v Speaker 1>that she was afraid to go home, saying, quote, my

645
00:32:26.279 --> 00:32:29.440
<v Speaker 1>daddy is drunk every day and I know he wants

646
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:30.240
<v Speaker 1>to kill my mother.

647
00:32:30.720 --> 00:32:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh.

648
00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:35.559
<v Speaker 1>That's coming from a little girl.

649
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Ah Okay, yeah, that's so sad.

650
00:32:40.279 --> 00:32:42.599
<v Speaker 1>And the worst part is they do go home. They

651
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:43.519
<v Speaker 1>go home every night.

652
00:32:43.599 --> 00:32:45.599
<v Speaker 2>Well they have to. Where else are they going to go?

653
00:32:45.839 --> 00:32:46.039
<v Speaker 1>Right.

654
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Oh, but that home she could afford it on her own.

655
00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Well, that home she did afford on her own. That

656
00:32:53.759 --> 00:32:54.440
<v Speaker 1>was her home.

657
00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:55.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Fuck.

658
00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.119
<v Speaker 1>Now another time, Judith was getting ready to leave the

659
00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:03.279
<v Speaker 1>US and flat to Bahamas to film the Jaws the

660
00:33:03.319 --> 00:33:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Revenge movie. Now, when this was happening, Joseph actually threatened

661
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:11.559
<v Speaker 1>her with a knife that he held up to her neck, saying, quote,

662
00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.400
<v Speaker 1>if you decide not to come back, I will cut

663
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:20.279
<v Speaker 1>your throat. Wow, holy shit, that's what he said to

664
00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:23.319
<v Speaker 1>his ten year old. She's probably a little bit younger

665
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:25.039
<v Speaker 1>at that time. But yeah, who's.

666
00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.559
<v Speaker 2>Literally going away to make money for him to even live?

667
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exist, and he.

668
00:33:32.039 --> 00:33:34.839
<v Speaker 2>Says regardless if she's making money or not, Like what

669
00:33:34.960 --> 00:33:39.119
<v Speaker 2>the fuck? No kidding, why even have kids? Like, oh

670
00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:41.079
<v Speaker 2>my goodness, oh my goodness.

671
00:33:41.640 --> 00:33:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Now, once the filming of Jaws was finished, Judith and

672
00:33:44.799 --> 00:33:49.559
<v Speaker 1>Maria stopped by Maria's brother's house, Joseph Weldon. So just

673
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.960
<v Speaker 1>see know Joseph and Joseph.

674
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:52.519
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, that's confusing.

675
00:33:52.839 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 1>I just that's his name. I'm gonna from here and

676
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:56.240
<v Speaker 1>out refer to it as Maria's brother.

677
00:33:56.720 --> 00:34:00.119
<v Speaker 2>She probably just loved being away on skits or what

678
00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:04.759
<v Speaker 2>does not skits. What it's called like filming. I can't

679
00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:06.680
<v Speaker 2>think of the right word, but like the little girl

680
00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:11.320
<v Speaker 2>loved on set, yes, away on the set. Wow, that

681
00:34:11.400 --> 00:34:13.719
<v Speaker 2>was a lot. She probably just loved that.

682
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm pretty sure I can hear people listening, like months

683
00:34:17.360 --> 00:34:19.400
<v Speaker 1>from now, it's on set.

684
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:23.000
<v Speaker 2>I know, people yell at us and I'm well, they

685
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:26.519
<v Speaker 2>say it's in I'm sure it's in kindness, in kindness,

686
00:34:26.679 --> 00:34:27.960
<v Speaker 2>probably in kindness.

687
00:34:28.239 --> 00:34:33.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So anyways, they stopped by Maria's brother's house in

688
00:34:33.119 --> 00:34:36.199
<v Speaker 1>New York. They stayed there for a total of two months,

689
00:34:36.280 --> 00:34:37.400
<v Speaker 1>hiding out from Joseph.

690
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:38.000
<v Speaker 2>My goodness.

691
00:34:38.039 --> 00:34:40.400
<v Speaker 1>And this was after the filming of the movie. Right, Okay,

692
00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.119
<v Speaker 1>presumably they're saying, you know, they're still on set, right,

693
00:34:44.559 --> 00:34:47.480
<v Speaker 1>But Joseph figured it out and he tracked them down

694
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:51.159
<v Speaker 1>and he knew where they were. He called them, and

695
00:34:51.199 --> 00:34:54.159
<v Speaker 1>he was talking on the phone to his daughter, and

696
00:34:54.400 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Maria's brother recalled hearing the voice on the other end

697
00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:01.559
<v Speaker 1>of the phone saying, quote, remember what I said before

698
00:35:01.559 --> 00:35:07.599
<v Speaker 1>you left? Wow, And that moment, Judith dropped the phone

699
00:35:07.800 --> 00:35:11.960
<v Speaker 1>and ran into the bedroom crying. The following morning, Judith

700
00:35:11.960 --> 00:35:13.480
<v Speaker 1>and Maria returned home.

701
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Did they have to though, weren't they at a safe

702
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:19.679
<v Speaker 2>place that they could have just stayed? Oh? That it's

703
00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:20.440
<v Speaker 2>so difficult.

704
00:35:20.480 --> 00:35:22.800
<v Speaker 1>I realized we're going to get into a little bit

705
00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:28.840
<v Speaker 1>more reasons of why here. Shortly so, her home life

706
00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and living with a literal monster because that's what he is,

707
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 1>was beginning to take a toll on her. Judith reportedly

708
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:41.480
<v Speaker 1>began gaining weight, and she also developed compulsive behaviors. One

709
00:35:41.519 --> 00:35:46.679
<v Speaker 1>such behavior was a mental disorder called trichotillomania. I nailed that.

710
00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Holy yeah.

711
00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:50.519
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I'm going to fuck this up, and

712
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:56.000
<v Speaker 1>I nailed it. Okay, sorry self? High five, also known

713
00:35:56.079 --> 00:35:58.760
<v Speaker 1>as hair pulling disorder or compulsive hair pulling.

714
00:35:59.239 --> 00:35:59.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh.

715
00:36:00.079 --> 00:36:03.559
<v Speaker 1>Judith was so anxious that she ended up plucking out

716
00:36:03.719 --> 00:36:06.960
<v Speaker 1>all of her eyelashes and also pulled out all of

717
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:08.079
<v Speaker 1>her cat's whiskers.

718
00:36:09.480 --> 00:36:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Okay, that's like really really upsetting.

719
00:36:12.679 --> 00:36:13.119
<v Speaker 1>It is.

720
00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:15.119
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

721
00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:19.079
<v Speaker 1>Shortly before an audition on May of nineteen eighty eight,

722
00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:24.639
<v Speaker 1>Judith became hysterical and she couldn't perform. Now. Seeing this

723
00:36:24.679 --> 00:36:27.599
<v Speaker 1>little girl in such a state seriously alarmed her agent,

724
00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Ruth Hansen, who reported quote, she was crying hysterically. She

725
00:36:32.559 --> 00:36:39.639
<v Speaker 1>couldn't talk. After this Maria brought Judith to a child psychiatrist. There,

726
00:36:39.800 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 1>the identified severe physical and emotional abuse and quickly reported

727
00:36:44.840 --> 00:36:47.800
<v Speaker 1>the findings to the Los Angeles County Department of Children

728
00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:54.639
<v Speaker 1>for Family Services. The investigation was quickly issued, but it

729
00:36:54.679 --> 00:37:01.840
<v Speaker 1>was also quickly dropped. So Marie Maria assured the caseworkers

730
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.440
<v Speaker 1>that she intended to begin divorce proceedings against Joseph as

731
00:37:06.480 --> 00:37:09.880
<v Speaker 1>soon as she could. She told her that she had

732
00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:14.199
<v Speaker 1>already rented an apartment in Panorama City which was closer

733
00:37:14.239 --> 00:37:16.840
<v Speaker 1>to the movie studios where the two girls could escape

734
00:37:16.920 --> 00:37:21.599
<v Speaker 1>while filming auditions or sorry, while filming and doing auditions.

735
00:37:22.599 --> 00:37:25.320
<v Speaker 1>And this was very much so true. Maria and Judith

736
00:37:25.320 --> 00:37:27.840
<v Speaker 1>were already doing this. They had an apartment that was

737
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:30.480
<v Speaker 1>being rented. They were spending time there as much as

738
00:37:30.519 --> 00:37:36.400
<v Speaker 1>they could, in fact, without raising suspicion with Joseph. Right, So,

739
00:37:36.880 --> 00:37:40.079
<v Speaker 1>with all this reassurance from Maria saying she's going to

740
00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:42.599
<v Speaker 1>file the divorce, she's already taking steps to leave them.

741
00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:46.000
<v Speaker 1>She already has this apartment. The investigation into the child

742
00:37:46.039 --> 00:37:50.519
<v Speaker 1>and family welfare was dropped because Maria assured them it

743
00:37:50.559 --> 00:37:51.280
<v Speaker 1>was taken care of.

744
00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:56.119
<v Speaker 2>My gosh, this is hurting my heart so much. I mean,

745
00:37:57.360 --> 00:37:59.239
<v Speaker 2>she felt like she probably needed to do that as

746
00:37:59.239 --> 00:38:01.480
<v Speaker 2>being the mom, right, but she would just literally ask

747
00:38:01.559 --> 00:38:02.000
<v Speaker 2>for help.

748
00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, And learning all this, like learning that this case

749
00:38:06.440 --> 00:38:08.320
<v Speaker 1>was dropped and that Maria was saying, these things are

750
00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:10.639
<v Speaker 1>going to happen and in the past, I mean, they

751
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.280
<v Speaker 1>haven't happened yet, so they need to happen. So learning

752
00:38:13.320 --> 00:38:16.320
<v Speaker 1>all these things, Maria's friends urged her to follow through

753
00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:19.719
<v Speaker 1>with the plant, saying, get the divorce, leave Joseph, forget

754
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:23.639
<v Speaker 1>the house, just take yourself, take Judith, get to safety.

755
00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:28.199
<v Speaker 1>And Maria did want to do these things, but she hesitated.

756
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:32.079
<v Speaker 1>She didn't want to lose the home. She didn't want

757
00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to lose the belongings, all the things that her daughter

758
00:38:35.400 --> 00:38:39.000
<v Speaker 1>had worked so hard for would be in the hands

759
00:38:39.079 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 1>of this monster, and it wouldn't be her daughters anymore

760
00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:46.400
<v Speaker 1>when she earned those things. And of course, not to

761
00:38:46.440 --> 00:38:49.079
<v Speaker 1>mention the fear of how Joseph would react to this.

762
00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:54.519
<v Speaker 1>A quote I have from a neighbor says Maria told

763
00:38:54.519 --> 00:38:59.400
<v Speaker 1>her this, I can't because he'll come after us and

764
00:38:59.480 --> 00:39:02.639
<v Speaker 1>kill us. And he's threatened to burn the house down.

765
00:39:05.079 --> 00:39:11.159
<v Speaker 1>So eventually, the exact thing Maria was afraid what happen

766
00:39:11.800 --> 00:39:16.400
<v Speaker 1>happened at around eight thirty am on July twenty seventh

767
00:39:16.480 --> 00:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen eighty eight. One of the neighbors heard an

768
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:24.039
<v Speaker 1>explosion next door, and a quote from them is my

769
00:39:24.199 --> 00:39:26.760
<v Speaker 1>first thought as I ran to call nine one one,

770
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.239
<v Speaker 1>was he's done it. He's killed them and set fire

771
00:39:30.280 --> 00:39:35.039
<v Speaker 1>to the house, just like he said he would. The

772
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:38.960
<v Speaker 1>scene the first responders found was the family home Judith

773
00:39:38.960 --> 00:39:41.760
<v Speaker 1>had worked so hard for and provided for. Their family

774
00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.639
<v Speaker 1>was up in a blaze of flames, but none of

775
00:39:45.679 --> 00:39:48.280
<v Speaker 1>the family members could be seen safely outside the home.

776
00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:55.159
<v Speaker 1>Police eventually found Judith in her bed. Maria was laying

777
00:39:55.199 --> 00:39:58.800
<v Speaker 1>lifeless in the hallway. Both of them had been shot once.

778
00:39:59.159 --> 00:40:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Wow and gasoline holy.

779
00:40:02.199 --> 00:40:07.840
<v Speaker 1>Shit, which Joseph had ignited shortly before dying by suicide

780
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:08.800
<v Speaker 1>in the garage.

781
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, okay, wow, that just yeah, that gets

782
00:40:14.840 --> 00:40:22.159
<v Speaker 2>okay shit. Yeah, that is unbelievable.

783
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:22.719
<v Speaker 1>M hm.

784
00:40:24.199 --> 00:40:26.159
<v Speaker 2>And it honestly made me even more mad that he

785
00:40:26.199 --> 00:40:28.519
<v Speaker 2>was in the garage for some reason, dead as well.

786
00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:30.559
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why, but it did.

787
00:40:30.920 --> 00:40:35.400
<v Speaker 1>Well. It gets a little bit worse here, awesome. Through forensics,

788
00:40:35.400 --> 00:40:39.039
<v Speaker 1>authorities believe the night Judith and Maria lost their lives.

789
00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Was actually two days prior to the fire wow, they believe.

790
00:40:44.400 --> 00:40:48.000
<v Speaker 1>On the night of July twenty fifth, Joseph, most likely

791
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:52.679
<v Speaker 1>in a drunken state, finally snapped in the shadows of

792
00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:56.199
<v Speaker 1>the evening, while Judas quietly slept under the canopy of

793
00:40:56.199 --> 00:41:00.840
<v Speaker 1>her comfy bed, Joseph quietly snuck into her bedroom, pointed

794
00:41:00.880 --> 00:41:03.239
<v Speaker 1>a gun to his daughter's head, and pulled the trigger,

795
00:41:03.719 --> 00:41:06.760
<v Speaker 1>shooting her once and killing his ten year old little

796
00:41:06.760 --> 00:41:07.599
<v Speaker 1>girl instantly.

797
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:09.800
<v Speaker 2>What a complete piece of shit monster.

798
00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:16.159
<v Speaker 1>Hearing the gunshot, Maria panicked and ran towards her daughter's room, yeah,

799
00:41:16.199 --> 00:41:20.880
<v Speaker 1>praying the noise wasn't what she thought it was. Unfortunately

800
00:41:21.039 --> 00:41:24.000
<v Speaker 1>it was, and when she came running down the hallway,

801
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:28.920
<v Speaker 1>she found Joseph standing in Judith's bedroom doorway. He raised

802
00:41:28.920 --> 00:41:34.039
<v Speaker 1>the gun towards her and shot her as well. The

803
00:41:34.079 --> 00:41:37.440
<v Speaker 1>next morning, Judith's agent called the house in a panic,

804
00:41:37.480 --> 00:41:40.840
<v Speaker 1>as Judith was missing from an important audition and meeting

805
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:46.039
<v Speaker 1>with Hannah Barber Productions Incorporated. Joseph picked up and he

806
00:41:46.119 --> 00:41:48.280
<v Speaker 1>told the agent the two had simply taken a car

807
00:41:48.400 --> 00:41:50.920
<v Speaker 1>to San Diego. Then that was the end of the

808
00:41:50.920 --> 00:41:54.880
<v Speaker 1>phone call. He hung up and then for the next

809
00:41:54.960 --> 00:42:00.199
<v Speaker 1>two days did who knows what, but he left his

810
00:42:00.360 --> 00:42:02.599
<v Speaker 1>daughter and his wife lying where he shot.

811
00:42:02.400 --> 00:42:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Them, just like rotting away. Yeap, Wow, this guy's a

812
00:42:08.920 --> 00:42:13.039
<v Speaker 2>piece of work. Yeah, it is almost unbelievable. It's like,

813
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:14.360
<v Speaker 2>you don't even know what to say.

814
00:42:14.480 --> 00:42:15.239
<v Speaker 1>It's disgusting.

815
00:42:16.280 --> 00:42:19.960
<v Speaker 2>It's so I just can't even grasp what's happened here.

816
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, finally, after two days, Joseph would take cans of

817
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:27.239
<v Speaker 1>gasoline and pour it throughout the house and on top

818
00:42:27.280 --> 00:42:31.360
<v Speaker 1>of the bodies of Judith and Maria. Then he lit

819
00:42:31.400 --> 00:42:34.679
<v Speaker 1>the house ablaze. I do want to point this out.

820
00:42:35.480 --> 00:42:38.639
<v Speaker 1>With the fumes and gasoline contained inside the house, when

821
00:42:38.719 --> 00:42:42.639
<v Speaker 1>Joseph lit the fire, there would no doubtedly in my mind,

822
00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:46.199
<v Speaker 1>be an explosion, and that explosion would have been what

823
00:42:46.239 --> 00:42:48.800
<v Speaker 1>the neighborhood. Some people say it could have been the gunshot.

824
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:53.119
<v Speaker 1>My assumption is it's the fumes because that's actually what ignites.

825
00:42:53.400 --> 00:42:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Nine times out of ten, that's what ignites with gasoline.

826
00:42:56.079 --> 00:42:59.159
<v Speaker 1>It's actually the fumes that light. Okay, and with the

827
00:42:59.199 --> 00:43:03.079
<v Speaker 1>fumes billowing in a contained area, you will get pressure

828
00:43:03.079 --> 00:43:05.360
<v Speaker 1>build up with a fireball and a boom. That's how

829
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:10.519
<v Speaker 1>it works, right, So that's probably what the explosion was.

830
00:43:11.920 --> 00:43:14.599
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting I guess that they didn't hear the gunshots. Say,

831
00:43:14.599 --> 00:43:17.960
<v Speaker 2>but we've covered a lot of cases for in like exactly,

832
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:20.119
<v Speaker 2>they can literally go undetected.

833
00:43:20.280 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I believe that in this explosion, in this

834
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:28.079
<v Speaker 1>exact moment, I think that's what sealed Joseph's fate and

835
00:43:28.119 --> 00:43:30.840
<v Speaker 1>said it in Stone. So I don't know if he

836
00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:34.679
<v Speaker 1>planned on escaping. In fact, I doubt he did plan

837
00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:39.639
<v Speaker 1>on escaping. But if he did, the explosion, though I'm

838
00:43:39.679 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 1>sure wasn't very extremely severe, I'm sure it probably would

839
00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:46.639
<v Speaker 1>have caused him some sort of injury, burns, whatever, blew

840
00:43:46.679 --> 00:43:49.559
<v Speaker 1>and back, broke some bones. I don't know. He had

841
00:43:49.559 --> 00:43:52.480
<v Speaker 1>to ignite it somehow. Most likely he's doing it in

842
00:43:52.480 --> 00:43:55.920
<v Speaker 1>a drunken stupor. He's probably just thrown a match on guess,

843
00:43:56.039 --> 00:43:58.280
<v Speaker 1>so he's right there, probably blew up in his.

844
00:43:58.199 --> 00:44:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Face thinking that he's going to get hurt.

845
00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Yes, whether he intended to escape or not, I don't know.

846
00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:07.960
<v Speaker 1>I doubt it, but at least I think he did

847
00:44:07.960 --> 00:44:11.840
<v Speaker 1>get injured from this explosion. Whatever the case. Though, after

848
00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.719
<v Speaker 1>the explosion, it was then that Joseph went to the

849
00:44:14.719 --> 00:44:18.199
<v Speaker 1>garage took out a thirty two caliber pistol and turned

850
00:44:18.199 --> 00:44:22.280
<v Speaker 1>it to himself and pulled the trigger, and from there

851
00:44:22.639 --> 00:44:25.719
<v Speaker 1>the house burnt down around him, with his wife and

852
00:44:25.920 --> 00:44:35.119
<v Speaker 1>daughter in the adjacent rooms. So Judith, Unfortunately, she passed

853
00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:38.880
<v Speaker 1>away before the release of her two breakout iconic roles

854
00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.840
<v Speaker 1>one Ducky in The Lamb Before Time and two and

855
00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 1>Marie in All Dogs Go to Heaven.

856
00:44:44.840 --> 00:44:48.519
<v Speaker 2>She was literally passed away before those even went out.

857
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>She had passed away, but.

858
00:44:50.039 --> 00:44:52.079
<v Speaker 2>She didn't even get to see the success of them.

859
00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:54.239
<v Speaker 1>She did not even get to see the movies.

860
00:44:54.639 --> 00:44:59.559
<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's even worse.

861
00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:05.199
<v Speaker 1>Now. In a cruel twist of fate, in All Dogs

862
00:45:05.239 --> 00:45:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Go to Heaven, Judith performed her final lines ever where

863
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:14.239
<v Speaker 1>her dog Charlie passed away, and the lines go a

864
00:45:14.239 --> 00:45:15.320
<v Speaker 1>little bit something.

865
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Like this, Charlie, will I ever see you again?

866
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:26.280
<v Speaker 1>Sure? Sure you will again? You know? Goodbye Zone forever?

867
00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Then goodbye Charlie. I love you.

868
00:45:34.519 --> 00:45:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Now, Since the movie was released after the passing

869
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:53.960
<v Speaker 1>of Judith, in a chronological order, Anne Marie technically passed

870
00:45:53.960 --> 00:45:59.360
<v Speaker 1>away before Charlie ever could. In the movies, Charlie was

871
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.719
<v Speaker 1>voiced by none other than the legendary Burt Reynolds, who

872
00:46:02.760 --> 00:46:06.960
<v Speaker 1>passed away in September of twenty eighteen. The two actors

873
00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:11.440
<v Speaker 1>had a great relationship behind the scenes, with Bert supporting

874
00:46:11.480 --> 00:46:15.239
<v Speaker 1>and praising Judith and being a great mentor for her

875
00:46:15.400 --> 00:46:18.519
<v Speaker 1>all the way through. Now to fans of the show,

876
00:46:19.079 --> 00:46:22.920
<v Speaker 1>when he passed away, they are sure, just as Charlie

877
00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:25.719
<v Speaker 1>would be waiting for Anne Marie in Heaven, They're sure

878
00:46:25.800 --> 00:46:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Judith was there waiting to greet him. Done.

879
00:46:32.800 --> 00:46:36.239
<v Speaker 2>You just more and more damage here? Eh, I'm like

880
00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:37.719
<v Speaker 2>drawing old Musha together.

881
00:46:38.639 --> 00:46:39.079
<v Speaker 1>You good.

882
00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:43.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Gosh, there's probing on a dry eye

883
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:45.360
<v Speaker 2>listening to this. Huh brutal.

884
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:50.199
<v Speaker 1>So Don Bluth, the director of both The Land Before

885
00:46:50.239 --> 00:46:53.960
<v Speaker 1>Time and All Dogs Go to Heaven, praise Judith for

886
00:46:54.079 --> 00:46:58.920
<v Speaker 1>being quote absolutely astonishing, and he stated he intended to

887
00:46:58.960 --> 00:47:04.239
<v Speaker 1>feature her exclusively in his future productions. The closing credit

888
00:47:04.320 --> 00:47:08.239
<v Speaker 1>songs Love Survives in All Dogs Go to Heaven was

889
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:14.320
<v Speaker 1>dedicated in Judith's memory. Finally, Judith and her mother were

890
00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:18.079
<v Speaker 1>buried together at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Hollywood Hill

891
00:47:18.199 --> 00:47:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Hills in adjoining plots. Judith's gravestone reads in Memory of

892
00:47:24.440 --> 00:47:29.559
<v Speaker 1>the Lovely Judith Eva Barsie nineteen seventy eight to nineteen

893
00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:33.960
<v Speaker 1>eighty eight, our concrete angel and at the very bottom

894
00:47:34.239 --> 00:47:37.119
<v Speaker 1>with her iconic line from Land Before Time as ducky

895
00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:44.519
<v Speaker 1>it says, yep, yep, yep. And that is the case

896
00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:50.679
<v Speaker 1>of Judith Barsie. And with that, I want to make

897
00:47:50.719 --> 00:47:52.079
<v Speaker 1>her our badass of the day.

898
00:47:53.199 --> 00:48:02.159
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Wow, they were both in just such a terrible situation, like, yeah,

899
00:48:02.199 --> 00:48:04.599
<v Speaker 2>it was just a lose lose really, regardless of what

900
00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.800
<v Speaker 2>they did, it probably would have ended this way most.

901
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:12.559
<v Speaker 1>Likely, yeah, which is so unfortunate. And I know this

902
00:48:12.639 --> 00:48:15.440
<v Speaker 1>is the case of Judith Barzi, but I also do

903
00:48:15.559 --> 00:48:18.400
<v Speaker 1>want to highlight her mother as well. Oh absolutely, I

904
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:20.880
<v Speaker 1>can't imagine the hell she went through as well, trying

905
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:24.519
<v Speaker 1>to protect her daughter and herself and trying to do

906
00:48:24.559 --> 00:48:28.360
<v Speaker 1>the right thing but inevitably still succumbing to this monster.

907
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:32.239
<v Speaker 2>Well yeah, she would have known what happened before she

908
00:48:32.360 --> 00:48:36.800
<v Speaker 2>got shot and killed yep, which is pretty devastating that

909
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:40.679
<v Speaker 2>that was her last known thought on earth.

910
00:48:40.719 --> 00:48:46.559
<v Speaker 1>Really, So I don't know if everyone knew of this

911
00:48:46.719 --> 00:48:50.440
<v Speaker 1>case and knew who Judith was, But yeah, I don't

912
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.760
<v Speaker 1>know if you'll be able to watch Land Before Oh.

913
00:48:52.519 --> 00:48:55.519
<v Speaker 2>Thanks God Heaven the same, No one will. That is

914
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:56.320
<v Speaker 2>such a loss.

915
00:48:56.840 --> 00:48:59.760
<v Speaker 1>It is and those two movies honestly hold a very

916
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:03.280
<v Speaker 1>very special place in my heart, and so does Judith

917
00:49:03.480 --> 00:49:06.320
<v Speaker 1>if I'm being honest. She did amazing in those films

918
00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:10.559
<v Speaker 1>and amazing with all her acting. The world lost a

919
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:11.960
<v Speaker 1>lot when she passed the way I can.

920
00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Say that well, yeah, because it's honestly just like incredible

921
00:49:14.719 --> 00:49:17.880
<v Speaker 2>to think what how far she would have gone, you know.

922
00:49:18.079 --> 00:49:22.280
<v Speaker 1>Oh her future was so bright, she was just getting started. Yeah,

923
00:49:22.320 --> 00:49:24.760
<v Speaker 1>so all right, you're good.

924
00:49:25.079 --> 00:49:27.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah you did it again, Ben, But.

925
00:49:27.079 --> 00:49:27.840
<v Speaker 1>I did what again?

926
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, just fucked everyone.

927
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Up, fucked everyone.

928
00:49:34.679 --> 00:49:37.320
<v Speaker 2>I know. You warned me so that I was like,

929
00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.199
<v Speaker 2>you might cry in this and I was like, no, no,

930
00:49:39.239 --> 00:49:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to. There's no way, like nope, But

931
00:49:42.119 --> 00:49:45.360
<v Speaker 2>yeah I lost that bed.

932
00:49:45.519 --> 00:49:46.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah you did.

933
00:49:46.800 --> 00:49:47.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

934
00:49:47.639 --> 00:49:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Well I hope you guys joined enjoyed this episode. If

935
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:52.960
<v Speaker 1>you haven't seen those movies, I do recommend you go

936
00:49:53.079 --> 00:49:56.320
<v Speaker 1>see them. They are absolutely incredible films. Yes they're cartoons,

937
00:49:56.360 --> 00:49:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes they're animated films, but there's a lot behind them.

938
00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:05.360
<v Speaker 1>Highly highly recommended. They're absolutely incredible. We appreciate you guys

939
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:06.840
<v Speaker 1>being here. If you guys want to go give us

940
00:50:06.840 --> 00:50:10.920
<v Speaker 1>some support over on things like Facebook, Instagram, our website, Patreon.

941
00:50:11.039 --> 00:50:13.679
<v Speaker 1>We so appreciate it. It's all down below. But if you

942
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:14.960
<v Speaker 1>just want to sit here and listen to the next

943
00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.320
<v Speaker 1>episode with us or be here in this one, we

944
00:50:17.360 --> 00:50:20.559
<v Speaker 1>appreciate that too. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much.

945
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:23.639
<v Speaker 1>Do you remember next episode it's going to be a

946
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:25.559
<v Speaker 1>Q and A one. We're not here next week because

947
00:50:25.639 --> 00:50:26.840
<v Speaker 1>Nicole's going on vacation.

948
00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:29.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, put all the blame on me, yep.

949
00:50:29.719 --> 00:50:31.760
<v Speaker 1>So we are putting out that Q and A episode

950
00:50:31.760 --> 00:50:32.880
<v Speaker 1>next Tuesday for you though.

951
00:50:32.800 --> 00:50:35.360
<v Speaker 2>In place of it's gonna be fun. It's an awesome

952
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:37.559
<v Speaker 2>way just to dive in deeper and get to know

953
00:50:37.719 --> 00:50:38.400
<v Speaker 2>us a bit better.

954
00:50:38.559 --> 00:50:41.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Nice, relaxed too, kind of chill, like I said,

955
00:50:41.159 --> 00:50:43.079
<v Speaker 1>rather than us just kind of hey, we're on vacation.

956
00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:46.280
<v Speaker 1>We'll come back in a week or two. We're still

957
00:50:46.480 --> 00:50:49.239
<v Speaker 1>doing something for you guys. Yeah, and engaging. We're actually

958
00:50:49.239 --> 00:50:50.800
<v Speaker 1>going to be having some fun with it.

959
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:55.159
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, and honestly, as emotional and terrible as that was,

960
00:50:55.199 --> 00:50:56.519
<v Speaker 2>well done, you did really.

961
00:50:56.280 --> 00:50:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Good, so thank you appreciate it.

962
00:50:58.679 --> 00:51:00.920
<v Speaker 2>So until next time, stay wicked.