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Speaker 1: What's going on in the world of Cougar athletics.

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Speaker 2: Here from players, coaches and experts on all the latest

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happenings with the Cougars.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back Cougar Sports.

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Speaker 2: One of three nine ninety ports three is being the

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band I've been little broadcasting from.

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Speaker 1: Our Vanderwealth Studios Vanderwealth dot Com.

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Speaker 2: It is time for a little Cougar in Sadurport going

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to be brought to you by Big O Tires.

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Speaker 1: In American Fork.

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mechanic who's also a big b YU fan, let's get

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your quest for having the best mechanical uh mechanical uh

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job done that that money can buy. My good friend

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Ryan Elders going to earn your business. No WEFs answer

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bunch about it. Let him know I sent you VP products,

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Speaker 1: They're at Big O' tires in American four.

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Speaker 2: A couple of things I want to tell the into

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BYU Football excited to announce Doug Peterson as their keynote

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speaker at the up and Coming Coaches Clinic. All you

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coaches out there looking to learn something from this Cougar

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coaching staff, you can sign up save the date March eighteenth.

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Registration is available BYU sportscamps dot com. That's BYU sportscamps

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dot com. Doug Peterson played thirteen played thirteen NFL seasons

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as a quarterback for the Eagles, Packers, Dolphins, and Browns.

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He's the head coach of the He was the head

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coach of the Philadelphia Eagles from two thousand sixteen to

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twenty twenty in the Jacksonville Jaguars from twenty twenty two

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to twenty twenty four, Super Bowl winning head coach in

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twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: That's who they got signed to.

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Speaker 2: Talk some Brigham football and just coaching in general. There

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on March eighteenth, in the middle of spring ball, in

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the middle of March madness. So Doug Peterson coming to

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Provo Ladies and gentlemen, to teach all you coaches what's

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up during the during the camp. There's so much to do,

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so much to learn, So why don't you take advantage

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of it and come on in and learn a thing

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or two from some of these high level coaches at

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Brigham Young University. A couple of other things here as

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it relates to BYU football've been able to confirm that

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Daniel Talmo we pay you, the brother of new c

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Talmoy Pay officially transferred to BYU from Eastern Washington. Welcome

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to the family, Daniel Tamo, we pay you. What is

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Daniel tamwoy pay you bring to the Cougar football team

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and the Cougar the Cougar family. You know he's a

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good football player, There's no doubt about it. He's I

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believe he comes in as a sophomore, if I'm not mistaken.

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He remember he played high school football at Westlake's six foot,

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two hundred and twenty pounds can play linebacker for the Cougs.

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We'll see how it all plays out. But let's get

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out to the hotline. We got our special guests for

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this Segment's going to be brought to you by Orthroprosio

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Utah Orthroposofutah dot com.

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Speaker 1: Let's welcome at.

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Speaker 2: Jeff Fuller ESPN, the fan contributor, man of metrics, and

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our favorite Vitrio retinal surgeon.

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Speaker 1: How the heck are you? Jeff?

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Speaker 3: Hey doing great? Ben?

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Speaker 4: How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I'm doing awesome as well. Appreciate you joining us to

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talk some metrics today. And I want to lean into

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some of the data you've been pulling recently. And you've

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posted it on x the ten most overrated team since

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twenty twenty AP preseason versus whose final poll figures who

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are the most overrated teams in college football during that

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time span? And what was the reason for deligan to

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the data this time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so you know, with the final A People coming out,

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I have a running tally of sort of did you

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start ranked, did you finish ranked? In the A People

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and sort of tracking that ever since they started doing

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preseason rankings back in nineteen fifty in the A People.

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And you know that's one of the things that you

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know BYU's pops at the top of the list. I

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guess we're really good at people underestimating us. I guess

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is the best way to sort of phrase that that

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Uyu is consistently over pretty much every time period that

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you look at seventy five years, fifty years, ten years,

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twenty years, UI's the most underrated. You know, we end

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up ranked more often than we start ring, more than

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any other team. But this analysis was a little different

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because I didn't just look at you know, the sort

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of binary are are you ranked or not?

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Speaker 4: Yes or no?

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Speaker 3: This was you know, where did you start in the

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rankings and where did you end? And it wasn't you know,

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a perfect, super clean way to do it, because if

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you either started, rinked, or ended ranked, I just automatically

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gave everyone a rank of thirtieth in the nation. You know.

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Obviously some finished in top of others receiving votes and

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should have officially been you know, twenty six or twenty seventh,

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and others, you know, like Clemson, were six and seven

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and didn't get a single vote in the poll, but

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started pre season number two, I think, but so, but

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like Clemson there, they would have started with a ranking

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of three but ended with a ranking of thirtieth because

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they didn't end up ranked. So I'd give him a

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thirty and that would be minus twenty eight points in

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this system, and so looking over the last six years,

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so since since twenty twenty, LSU was the number one

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most overrated team Clemson Penn State. Actually don't have it,

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and I'm driving in my car now, I probably I

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should should I'm not going to look at my phone

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while I'm driving, but I'm able to talk. But do

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you do you have it up there?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Let me let me pull it up really quick. Yeah,

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you mentioned.

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Speaker 4: LSU, USC was on there. I recall was.

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Speaker 2: Like Wisconsin, Texas and Penn State USC, Florida, Oklahoma UNC

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and UH and Oregon.

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Speaker 3: Uh.

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Speaker 1: So out of those teams, what's what stands out to you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I mean the first thing that stands out

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is there's not a single current Big twelve team in there,

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So you know, take that for what it's worth. You know,

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for for whatever reason, most Big twelve teams don't get

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a lot of preseason high but are in their way,

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you know, higher in the rankings as well as we'll

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see on the flip side of that top ten or

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the bottom ten list of of what we what we're

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talking about now, there's a top ten of the most

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underrated teams. But the other things that pop out. I mean,

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you got your blue blood brand bias. And even within

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you know, most of them are obviously SEC and Big

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ten teams, but there's I think, what was there two

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or three ACC teams. We had Clemson, we had u

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n C there, So yeah, there's there's there's for whatever reason,

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teams in the East and in the sort of the

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biggest two conferences tend to you know, the East or

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the Southeast tend to tend to be a little more

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overrated than teams out in the mountain time zones tend

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to be. And then there's Organ in USC, which you

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know they've they've always been on the little overrated side

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and and you know Organ's had great results, you know,

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especially recently, but earlier on in the in the last

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six years, weren't weren't quite meeting their expectations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's, uh, we know, by you severely underrated and

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it's it is what it is, right, the most underrated

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team in the Cottege football But uh, who are some

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of the other teams in basketball and basketball?

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Speaker 1: Huh?

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Speaker 3: What is that?

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Speaker 1: What's your theory? I know we've discussed this before. What's

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your theory? Have you have you? Uh? I mean have

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you gotten into it even deeper recently.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean it's sort of a perfect storm in the

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wrong way. It's it's all kinds of conscious and uh

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or subconscious and real biases that sort of get in there.

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And I'm talking about not just you know, like a

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religious bought by at a brand bias, but I'm talking

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about like population, like the population of your state, the

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time zone. Teams that are in the Mountain time zone

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tend to get underrated quite frequently, and then religious schools

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and private schools in general get a little underrated in

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general compared to public schools. But you know, and then

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BYU is a private religious school, so it's sort of

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double one there. So it's sort of all of them

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together that just sort of form a perfect storm, with

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BYU of being underrated. You know, like Northwestern is one

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of the most underrated teams. TCU is usually one of

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the most underrated teams. So yeah, a lot of times

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the private schools don't get quite the run and the

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laudatory praise of AT voters either, you know, at least

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in the preseason.

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Speaker 2: It's crazy, man, it really is. Uh, you know, you

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have these uh, these teams. It's picking it's picking helmets, right,

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It's picking brands, is what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: When will are we getting into an era?

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Speaker 2: Okay, you look at the top most under right, top

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ten most UNDERTTY teams b YU, Indiana, Ole, Miss, Tulane, TCU, Northwestern,

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you to Boise State, Texas Tech, Houston. All these teams.

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Most of these teams had good seasons. Indiana won a Nattie,

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ole Miss was in the College Football Playoff and won

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a game, right and uh and Tulane got to the CFP,

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TCU Uh, you know, I think finished strong. Boise State

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had their down down year, Texas Tech obviously went to

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the CFP, Houston had a great season. This is what

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makes me optimistic about the future of college football. With

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the leveling, the evening out of the playing field, so

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that the power brokers, the blue bloods, the ones that

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have bought and paid for this power structure, the college

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football cartel and cuball it can all come tumbling down

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before our eyes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would love to see the day.

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But yeah, I mean, preseason rankings are here to stay.

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You know, we will gnash our teeth and whine and

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moan about them, but you know, we love tonash our

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teeth and wine and moan about them. So that's why

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they exist, and that's why you know they're going for

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something to talk about, something to you know, engagement Sodder.

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I guess we could say, and you know, sometimes you know,

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I don't. I don't think they purposely over rank or

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under rank the team just just for clicks. But you

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know there are these yeah, as you say, you know,

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voting for helmets or logo, you know, logo brand bias.

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That's a that's a real thing.

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Speaker 4: And then it you know, goes into the the.

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Speaker 3: Other biases that are important, the anchoring biases where we

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we have these preseason teams that we picked that we

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think are supposed to be good because as some combination

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of you know, they're always good, or they ended good

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and they're bringing this back, or they got these recruits

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and no boys, they should just be monsters this year.

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Usually your your blue bloods and your bigger brands and

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your SEC teams are gonna sort of dominate with a

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lot of that preseason height from from recruiting rankings, but

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with anchoring bias, I mean, yeah, we expect these teams

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to do good, so we rank them in.

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Speaker 4: The top five.

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Speaker 3: They may have to lose twice before they fall out

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of the rankings. You know, they can be three and

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two and have you know, three pretty unimpressive wins, but

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still be in the rankings because they were expected to

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be a top five team pre season. I mean, and

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sometimes they end up being right, you know, like Notre Dame.

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Weren't they one and two or two and two or

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something early in the season, but still stayed in the

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rankings and of course ended right there on the college

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football bubble, and you know, maybe ABAP voters were right

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to keep them there, you know, with those two relatively

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close losses.

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Speaker 4: But you know, other teams that don't.

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Speaker 3: Have that big brand sort of don't have that luxury

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and really have to sort of fight and claw and

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impress people with either lop sided victories or you know,

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just beating, you know, or upsetting some teams that they

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they're just not supposed to be before they can even

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break into the rankings. So it's you know, it's sort

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of the haves and the have nots and the rich

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get richer with the preseason rankings and the anchoring bias

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that occurs from that.

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Speaker 2: What is to be done? Jeff buller in order to

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make it all right? You know, do we just throw

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the eight people out of it all? Do we get

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rid of it? Did we just say, hey, these guys

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are credible, they never have been, they never will be.

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Let's rid ourselves of this fodder.

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Speaker 3: Ah, that would be great, But again I just explained

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why that never gonna happen. We love it too much.

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Even if we're going to whine and moan, we we love.

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We love something to talk about and to beat our chest.

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If you know, like, hey, we're going to be like, hey,

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do I use preseason number twelve and the eight people?

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You know, that's like maybe close to the highest ever.

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I think by has never been a preseason top ten team.

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I don't believe even after coming off the national championship year.

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I think they were preseason number eleven or twelve or

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something like that. So and again it looks like, you know,

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yet again, b why you won't be in the preseason

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top then even with a pretty you know, we're finishing

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what eleventh or twelfth, and we're bringing back a lot

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with a good recruiting class too. So I think if

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we had a different you know, if we had some

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longhorns on the side of our helmet or a golden helmet. Yeah,

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we'd be you know, with what we're bringing back where

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we finish, we'd be a top you know, three, four

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or five team. Easy.

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Speaker 4: But you know, they just don't expect you want you

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to do.

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Speaker 3: That or be that.

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Speaker 2: So Jeff, but I think we need an article about

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this published on ESPN the fan.

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Speaker 1: That's what we need.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yep, I can.

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Speaker 3: I can flesh out the data and yeah, you know,

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the data goes back, you know, quite a ways. And

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it's I think it's very convincing that you know, and

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you know to some degree this, if you're always ranked

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in the top ten preseason, it's hard to sort of overperform,

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Like say you're ring number one preseason. You can't overperform that, right,

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you have to finish number one to sort of to

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be considered not overrated, And you cannot conceivably be underrated

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when you start number one because you'd have to finish

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number one, so you can only be overrated. So that's

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sort of what the other side of the coin that

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you know, some of these bigger brands or things like

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of course underrated. We're starting you know, we're starting at

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number five. It's hard to overperform.

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Speaker 4: That too much.

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Speaker 3: And if we have a horrible year, all of a

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sudden we got this huge negative number. But when the

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same teams keep popping up over every time period and

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by big margins, you know, USC, Notre Dame, Texas, Texas,

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A and M. You know, those teams consistently pop up

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as being hugely overrated over just about every time period.

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You look at Notre Dame less so over the last

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ten or twenty years actually, but some of those other

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teams are just always there. USC USC usc most overrated

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team of all time.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, man.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think BA is in a good spot. BA

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is in a great spot all things considered. Maybe they

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can get over the hump. Maybe they can be you know,

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you look at the national champions you know, the last

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twenty years, it's hard to find a team anywhere near

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the West coast that is competitive in that wincin Natty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's it's been a while trying to think,

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was it Reggie Bush or no, excuse me.

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Speaker 4: A Texas, Texas.

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Speaker 3: And even I think USC's last national championship was uh,

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I think wasn't it right before that year? Or right

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after that year with Matt Leonard or something. But even that,

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I think when there there were some some controversy, some

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vacated wins or something. So some people even contest that

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as you know, a national championship. But yeah, it's it's

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it's tough to do for whatever reason. What's in the

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playoff era CFP area era. It really you know that

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geography shouldn't be a huge issue. But yeah, it may

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just take time. Oregon's knocked on the door quite a

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few times and never punched their way through. But hopefully

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BUYU can get there and do it. It's a I

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don't think we're quite there. I think we're you know,

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I really wish we just do do what Texas Tech

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did and overspend for a couple just elite key linemen.

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You know, even you know, we got some great people

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maturing through the program. But you know, if you get

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one or two game wreckers on the defensive line and

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a and a receiver who's just you know, an NFL

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first round draft pick, you know, those those are a

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couple of key pieces that all the all the top

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teams tend to have, and I just I wish I

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think we're just lacking a couple of pieces to break

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through and really make noise in the playoffs. I'd love

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to be proven wrong though.

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Speaker 1: Well, which what do we miss it? What are you

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what were you hoping for in the portal oh specific edge?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, just just a game wreaking defensive end. I mean,

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we've we've got good deep D tackles, but no one

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who you know, you think of like Domingan Sue or

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elite Lee Hunter last year for for Texas Tech. You know,

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you think of David Bailey for Texas Tech. On the edge,

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you think of Baying for for Miami. You know, these

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players that just couldn't be game changers, you know, and

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sometimes it's just on you know, five or ten plays

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through the game, but you know they're making you know,

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wreaking hav a there. And then these receivers, you know

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Indiana's receivers. You know, he got some first round guys there,

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they're elite receivers with you know, I think we got

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the quarterback who could possibly get us there. I don't

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know if he's the tip top of the nation, but

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he's he's definitely trending in that direction and I wouldn't

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put it past him to take the next step and

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uh yeah, I think we got I think we got

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the skilled players except for maybe one elite receiver, you know,

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just to stretch the field, you know, take it over

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the top and then yeah, and then at defensive end

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and maybe a defensive tackle that are just elite game wreckers.

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Speaker 1: Would love to see it. You know. I think they

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feel pretty stacked right now. But you wonder.

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Speaker 3: I just know that's what I keep hearing, that they're

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just they feel like they're stacked.

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Speaker 4: Again.

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Speaker 3: I think there's lots of good talent and development. I

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just I just don't think there's a first round draft

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pick kind of guy game wrecker there, unfortunately. But I'd

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love for them to prove me wrong.

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Speaker 2: As I said, prove Jeff wrong. Let's go all right, Jeff.

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We'll always appreciate our time. We'll be looking for that article.

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We got to make this thing go viral. The tweet

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is picking up steam. I saw a number of high

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profile Twitter users quote it, talk about it, So we

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got to keep this up. It's the college football offseason,

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this is the time, this is the place.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, sure, we appreciate it. We'll do all right, Ben.

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Speaker 1: All right, thanks, Jeff.

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Speaker 2: I always appreciate our time, our favorite vitrio retinal surgeon,

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our favorite ophthalmologists. He got out of clinic and came

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right over to the phone so we could talk some

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Cougar football. That's what I love about my guy, Jeff Fuller.

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That was a great segment and it was brought to you.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a brief time out. We'll be back.

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Speaker 2: Don't go anywhere more than gets to This is Cougar

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Sports on one A three nine ninety point three E