WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:32.600 Welcome back to the Path Went Chile for part two 2 00:00:32.719 --> 00:00:35.679 of our three part series on the unsolved disappearance of 3 00:00:35.759 --> 00:00:38.600 Ray Greecar. Robin, do you want to catch everyone up 4 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.719 on what we talked about in our previous episode. 5 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:43.479 Well, this is one of the more famous missing person's 6 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:46.079 cases the modern era. It took place in two thousand 7 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:48.679 and five and the victim was fifty nine year old 8 00:00:48.759 --> 00:00:51.719 Ray Griecar, who had a very long and storied career 9 00:00:51.840 --> 00:00:55.280 as the District Attorney of Center County, Pennsylvania, and was 10 00:00:55.320 --> 00:00:57.320 planning to retire at the end of the year, but 11 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:01.600 he would vanish under very strange circumstances. He lived in Bellefonte, 12 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:03.840 and he decided to take the day off from work 13 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:06.719 and told his girlfriend that he was going on a 14 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:10.280 road trip to go antique shopping, but he never turned home, 15 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:13.040 and then the following day, his abandoned car was discovered 16 00:01:13.079 --> 00:01:16.400 sixty miles away in the town of Leuisbourg, parked across 17 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:18.840 the street from an antique small but there was no 18 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:22.480 sign of Ray, and there was cigarette ash outside his car, 19 00:01:22.680 --> 00:01:26.159 even though Ray detested smoking and would never let anyone 20 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.159 smoke near him, suggesting that someone else may have been 21 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.280 driving the vehicle, and there were also unconfirmed sightings of 22 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:34.959 Ray in the presence of another woman, but she was 23 00:01:35.000 --> 00:01:37.959 never identified and they never confirmed that she actually existed. 24 00:01:38.719 --> 00:01:42.200 They discovered that Ray's work issued laptop was missing, and 25 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:44.519 it would not be until several months later when they 26 00:01:44.560 --> 00:01:47.879 found the laptop in a nearby river which was near 27 00:01:47.920 --> 00:01:51.239 a bridge, and sometime after that they found the hard drive, 28 00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.760 which had been screwed from the laptop, but they were 29 00:01:53.840 --> 00:01:56.439 unable to figure out what was on it and if 30 00:01:56.519 --> 00:01:59.200 perhaps Ray or someone else tossed it into the river 31 00:01:59.280 --> 00:02:01.840 because there was something on there they didn't want to find. 32 00:02:02.000 --> 00:02:04.959 Because it turned out that Ray had made some Google 33 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:08.240 searches on his home computer about how to erase a 34 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:12.400 laptop and stuff like water damage to a laptop, there 35 00:02:12.439 --> 00:02:16.960 was speculation that Ray could have disappeared voluntarily, so speculation 36 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:19.039 that he could have been the victim of foul play. 37 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:23.120 He had several years earlier looked into a sexual assault 38 00:02:23.199 --> 00:02:27.960 charge against Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, but 39 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:30.960 decided not to press charges. But it was a couple 40 00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:33.800 of years after Ray's disappearance when the whole Penn State 41 00:02:33.879 --> 00:02:36.879 scandal broke out where it turned out that Sandusky had 42 00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:39.800 been sexually abusing a number of boys and that the 43 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:42.599 college had helped cover it up. So people wondered maybe 44 00:02:42.680 --> 00:02:44.960 Ray found out something about that and may have been 45 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:47.680 murdered to keep him silent. And they also looked at 46 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.879 the possibility that raised disappearance might have been a suicide, 47 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.520 because years earlier, his brother had actually taken his own 48 00:02:54.520 --> 00:02:57.280 life by jumping off a bridge into a river, So 49 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.479 they looked at the possibility perhaps the Raising he wasn't 50 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:02.719 found is because he did jump off the bridge into 51 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:05.319 the same river where they found the laptop and just 52 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.360 have not found his body. But we recently passed the 53 00:03:08.360 --> 00:03:11.960 twenty year anniversary of raised disappearance, and unfortunately, we don't 54 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:14.199 seem to be any closer to solving now than we 55 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:15.560 were back in two thousand and five. 56 00:03:17.120 --> 00:03:19.520 Over the past several years, there have been at least 57 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:23.000 two accounts of an informant coming forward and sharing his 58 00:03:23.080 --> 00:03:27.560 story about Ray being murdered. In September twenty thirteen, the 59 00:03:27.599 --> 00:03:32.199 Altuna Mirror newspaper reported that the authorities were investigating claims 60 00:03:32.199 --> 00:03:35.080 from an informant that a former member of the Health 61 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:39.680 Angels motorcycle club had killed Ray as revenge for prosecuting 62 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:44.039 and convicting this guy on an aggravated assault conviction, which 63 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:47.919 led to him receiving a multiple year prison sentence. The 64 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.919 story goes that the biker damaged to raise kneecaps and 65 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:54.080 slid his throat before dumping his body into a mine 66 00:03:54.080 --> 00:03:57.639 shaft in rural Pennsylvania, which had since been capped and 67 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:01.759 covered with several feet of dirt. The informant reportedly decided 68 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:04.439 to come forward because he was under the impression that 69 00:04:04.439 --> 00:04:07.159 the biker was dead, but soon learned that he was 70 00:04:07.199 --> 00:04:11.360 actually still alive and living in another state. As a result, 71 00:04:11.400 --> 00:04:14.360 the informant was reluctant to lead authorities to the location 72 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:17.879 of the mind shaft since it supposedly contained four other 73 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:21.800 bodies and some guns, and since this evidence could have 74 00:04:21.839 --> 00:04:25.600 implicated the informant in other crimes, he wanted to arrange 75 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:29.920 full immunity from prosecution. It's unclear how exactly this part 76 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.759 of the investigation turned out, but it sounds like this 77 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:34.959 man's story was never substantiated. 78 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:38.800 Here's what's interesting about that one is that we've talked 79 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.399 about Sandusky and the fact that you know that he 80 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.120 was looking into that case and decided not to prosecute. 81 00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:48.319 But then you bring in the Hells Angels motorcycle club 82 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:51.240 and saying, hey, is it possible that he was linked 83 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:55.160 to a prosecution of one of those members and therefore 84 00:04:55.240 --> 00:04:58.560 became a target as well. But this person who came 85 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.839 forward one what would they have to gain by coming 86 00:05:01.879 --> 00:05:06.079 forward against such a dangerous organization If he was scared 87 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:09.600 that this person was alive and then said, wait, I 88 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:11.639 think he's dead, I'm going to come forward with information, 89 00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.759 then finds out he's alive again and withdraws that story, 90 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:19.439 or maybe doesn't follow through with any of the leads 91 00:05:19.480 --> 00:05:22.600 that he had. It could be out of fear. It 92 00:05:22.639 --> 00:05:26.160 could also be that he has potential involvement right and 93 00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:29.319 brought it forward just to get attention back on it 94 00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:31.279 and push the blame on someone he thought was dead, 95 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:34.720 or like you said, could he have also just been 96 00:05:34.759 --> 00:05:39.680 involved in nefarious things that maybe then Ray was prosecuting 97 00:05:40.000 --> 00:05:43.160 or should have been prosecuting, and was worried about getting 98 00:05:43.160 --> 00:05:45.199 in trouble and so just completely drops all of it. 99 00:05:46.639 --> 00:05:49.040 That's what's so frustrating is because this made the news 100 00:05:49.040 --> 00:05:51.959 back in twenty thirteen, and then they talked about how 101 00:05:51.959 --> 00:05:54.560 he was trying to arrange full immunity to share everything 102 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.360 he knew, and then this part of the story just disappeared. 103 00:05:57.439 --> 00:05:59.720 We never heard any follow up, which makes me think 104 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.519 they find out this guy's story wasn't credible. I mean, 105 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:05.720 the idea that right because he was a prosecutor may 106 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:08.480 have angered someone, that's someone he sent to prison, may 107 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.959 have wanted to get revenge, is not that far fetched, 108 00:06:11.319 --> 00:06:13.639 but it just doesn't sound like there was any evidence 109 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.759 to corroborate it, and also doesn't explain why Ray would 110 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:19.639 travel sixty miles to another town and then just happened 111 00:06:19.639 --> 00:06:22.160 across paths with this biker who would kill him. 112 00:06:22.639 --> 00:06:25.319 And I also question how many mine shafts are in 113 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:28.079 the area. It seems like quite a risk if you're 114 00:06:28.120 --> 00:06:30.800 going to dump a body somewhere to keep that mind 115 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:34.399 shaft open, and just to dump three other bodies and 116 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:37.879 then some guns there because it's there found in that 117 00:06:37.959 --> 00:06:41.199 one place, it's like jackpot for authorities, and if they 118 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.959 can trace it back to you, then your goose is cooked. 119 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:47.240 Exactly. If you're going to do that, you're better off 120 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:49.160 just sealing the mind so that no one will ever 121 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:53.680 find it to begin with so. In twenty twenty, journalist 122 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:58.040 Wallace McKelvey published a fifteenth anniversary article about Rai's disappearance 123 00:06:58.079 --> 00:07:01.839 for The Patriot News at Penn Live, which detailed his 124 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.959 interactions with a man he only referred to as the informant, 125 00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:08.600 though from my understanding, this is a completely different informant 126 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:10.839 than the man who shared the previous story about the 127 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.800 Hall's Angels. According to this informant, while he was incarcerated 128 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:18.040 at this state correctional institution at Camp Hill, a former 129 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.600 cellmate told him that he and another man have been 130 00:07:20.639 --> 00:07:23.800 contracted to kidnap and murder Ray Greecar because of a 131 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:27.560 drug investigation. Both these men have paid a female acquaintance 132 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.199 to Lurerey to the street of shops in Louisbourg with 133 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.920 the promise of giving him information of about a drug ring. 134 00:07:33.240 --> 00:07:35.439 But after the woman took Ray to a local motel, 135 00:07:35.800 --> 00:07:38.560 the sal MAT's surprise Ray by snapping his neck and 136 00:07:38.600 --> 00:07:41.680 putting his body into the trunk of a car. Afterward, 137 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:44.920 the salve Mat and his accomplice dumped Ray's body down 138 00:07:44.959 --> 00:07:48.480 an abandoned, flooded mind shaft. By the time the informant 139 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.600 shared this story, both the sal mate and the woman 140 00:07:50.639 --> 00:07:54.399 were deceased, though the male accomplice was still alive. Just 141 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.480 over two weeks before his disappearance, Ray did hold a 142 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:00.000 press conference in which he announced that the largest drug 143 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.839 bust and the history of Central County had taken place, 144 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:06.439 as charges were filed against nine suspected dealers who were 145 00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.279 involved in a heroin and cocaine trafficking ring. However, the 146 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:13.519 case was mostly handled by another attorney from Ray's office, 147 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:16.800 and his personal involvement was mostly limited to giving statements 148 00:08:16.839 --> 00:08:19.160 to the media. No evidence has ever been found to 149 00:08:19.199 --> 00:08:22.319 link the drug bust to raise disappearance, and once again, 150 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:25.600 the informant story has never been substantiated. In spite of 151 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.600 all the different theories surrounding this case, we have recently 152 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:31.920 passed the twenty year anniversary when Ray Driecar went missing, 153 00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:35.440 but there's still no conclusive answers about what actually happened 154 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.240 to him. So I guess you could say the path 155 00:08:38.399 --> 00:08:38.879 went Chile. 156 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:43.639 What are the chances though, that there's two informants saying 157 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.720 something about a mind shaft. Are mind shafts peppered all 158 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:48.600 over this place, So it's kind of a logical lego 159 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:51.080 of a body's you know disappears and it's going to 160 00:08:51.080 --> 00:08:54.679 go here. And remember Ray was supposedly seen with a 161 00:08:54.759 --> 00:08:57.559 woman at some point, So is it possible that this 162 00:08:57.679 --> 00:09:00.480 second story is actually more believable than the first one. 163 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:03.799 It could be. I mean, I know that we have 164 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:06.519 all these informants coming forward, but this was a pretty 165 00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:08.960 high profile missing person's case, so I guess it would 166 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:12.559 not be surprising if an informant wanted attention to suddenly 167 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.399 insert himself into the case and give what sounds like 168 00:09:15.440 --> 00:09:18.080 a believable story on the surface, that this former district 169 00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.320 attorney was targeted by a criminal out of revenge for 170 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.720 some sort of investigation. But once again, like I know, 171 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.399 it seems like a coincidence that a drug bust just 172 00:09:27.440 --> 00:09:30.399 happened to take place so shortly before Ray went missing. 173 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.480 But Ray's roll, like I said, was just limited strictly 174 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:36.159 to giving press conferences and he did not actively work 175 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.799 on the case, so it seems weird that anyone involved 176 00:09:38.840 --> 00:09:42.960 with this drug organization would decide to target him. So, 177 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:45.399 like I mentioned in the intro to our first episode, 178 00:09:45.559 --> 00:09:48.360 I think a big reason that Ray Greekar's disappearance has 179 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.080 become one of the most high profile missing person's cases 180 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.720 of the modern era is because he was an individual 181 00:09:53.759 --> 00:09:57.080 who devoted his career to closing cases and putting criminals 182 00:09:57.080 --> 00:09:59.799 behind bars, but found himself at the center of his 183 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:04.399 own unsolved mystery right before he was scheduled to retire. Yes, 184 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:06.559 people who work in law enforcement for such a long 185 00:10:06.600 --> 00:10:09.320 period of time are going to receive threats because of 186 00:10:09.320 --> 00:10:12.360 what they do, and sometimes they will even be murdered. 187 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.240 But very rarely will you find a situation where the 188 00:10:15.279 --> 00:10:19.679 victim completely vanishes without a trace. And what further complicates 189 00:10:19.679 --> 00:10:22.279 this story is that there is no definitive evidence that 190 00:10:22.360 --> 00:10:25.360 Ray was murdered or that his disappearance had any connection 191 00:10:25.480 --> 00:10:28.559 to his career, as it's entirely possible he was feeling 192 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:31.399 suicidal and made the decision to take his own life. 193 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:33.720 But to give you an idea of just how out 194 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.120 of the ordinary this situation is, Ray Greecar might be 195 00:10:37.159 --> 00:10:39.639 the only person who has ever been interviewed on an 196 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:42.679 episode of a true crime show for helping solve the case, 197 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:45.759 but then became the subject of an episode of another 198 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:49.279 true crime show over a decade later because he went missing. 199 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:53.440 In October of nineteen ninety nine, the Discovery Channel true 200 00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.080 crime series The FBI Files released an episode titled A 201 00:10:57.120 --> 00:11:00.440 Stranger in Town, which chronicled the murder of a seventeen 202 00:11:00.480 --> 00:11:04.000 year old runaway named Dawn Marie Bernbaum, whose body was 203 00:11:04.039 --> 00:11:08.960 found alongside Interstate eighty near Belfont, Pennsylvania. A truck driver 204 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.159 named James Robert Cruz Junior would be charged and convicted 205 00:11:12.240 --> 00:11:14.799 of the murder, and since Ray Gricar was the Center 206 00:11:14.840 --> 00:11:18.120 County District Attorney at that time and prosecuted Cruise at 207 00:11:18.120 --> 00:11:22.519 his trial, he was extensively interviewed during the FBI Files episode. 208 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.039 You can find this episode on YouTube, and needless to say, 209 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:29.279 it's quite easy to watch this interview with Ray knowing 210 00:11:29.320 --> 00:11:31.840 that he would go missing five and a half years later. 211 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:35.000 I know that I first became familiar with Ray's story 212 00:11:35.039 --> 00:11:37.720 when it was featured on an episode of Disappeared, which 213 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:40.879 aired in February of twenty eleven. It's very rare that 214 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:43.080 you get to see interview footage with a missing person 215 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.679 before they vanished. But during his appearance on the FBI Files, 216 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:49.799 Ray does come across like everyone described him as. He 217 00:11:49.840 --> 00:11:53.279 seems like a decent, straight shooting guy who genuinely cared 218 00:11:53.279 --> 00:11:56.279 about getting justice for his victims, but he's also got 219 00:11:56.279 --> 00:11:59.320 a pretty reserved and low key personality for. 220 00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:02.159 Someone who's so driven and someone who is so close 221 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:04.440 for retirement and kind of has these big plans with 222 00:12:04.519 --> 00:12:08.200 his wife and daughter. And I wonder we had the 223 00:12:08.399 --> 00:12:10.960 idea floated that he simply ran away on his own 224 00:12:11.039 --> 00:12:14.840 or maybe completed suicide right as another explanation, But it 225 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.080 doesn't seem like that fits his personality unless we know 226 00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:21.879 other things that are going on. Of course, I think 227 00:12:21.879 --> 00:12:23.720 we might have even compared him to the Ray rivera 228 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:26.320 case where there were some odd things that occurred. But 229 00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:31.879 for this Ray, it almost seems like he had to 230 00:12:32.000 --> 00:12:35.279 have run into some kind of foul play. It's that 231 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:38.840 smoked cigarette in his car that I just can't buy 232 00:12:38.879 --> 00:12:41.159 the idea that he would smoke it as one last 233 00:12:41.200 --> 00:12:43.320 act before he took his own life or ran away. 234 00:12:45.240 --> 00:12:47.600 Yeah, you can go either way. And a lot of 235 00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:50.360 people think that because he was such a reserved and 236 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:53.159 low key guy, that if Ray was experiencing mental health 237 00:12:53.159 --> 00:12:56.679 issues or he was depressed or had something wrong with him, 238 00:12:56.759 --> 00:12:58.919 that he would mask it like he would not tell 239 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.720 anyone about it. So you are correct that on the surface, 240 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:03.879 he doesn't seem like a guy who was suffering and 241 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:07.240 would choose suicide as an option, But his brother had 242 00:13:07.279 --> 00:13:09.559 done the same thing years earlier, so for all we know, 243 00:13:09.639 --> 00:13:12.639 maybe something was going on with Ray which nobody knew about. 244 00:13:14.759 --> 00:13:17.759 Not surprisingly, this case has also been featured on a 245 00:13:17.840 --> 00:13:22.679 number of true crime podcasts such as Generation Why, True Crime, Garage, 246 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.000 and Trace Evidence. But in April of twenty twenty one, 247 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:29.759 a new long form, multi episode podcast was released titled 248 00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:34.679 Final Argument The Disappearance of Ray Greecar. It was created 249 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:38.039 and hosted by a reporter named Rebecca Knight, who managed 250 00:13:38.080 --> 00:13:41.240 to get access to the original case file and revealed 251 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:45.799 some new pieces of information which were never made public before. However, 252 00:13:45.840 --> 00:13:48.039 the podcast has become a bit of a mystery in 253 00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:51.000 its own right, as it had a very erratic release 254 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:54.039 schedule and dropped only six episodes over the course of 255 00:13:54.080 --> 00:13:57.559 one year. At one point, Knight mentioned that she'd received 256 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:00.320 a death threat, and it appeared that she experienced lot 257 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:04.919 of obstacles which caused lengthy delays between episodes. The podcast 258 00:14:05.000 --> 00:14:08.360 last episode was released in May twenty twenty two, and 259 00:14:08.440 --> 00:14:11.519 if you visit the Final Argument Facebook page, you'll see 260 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:15.080 this final post from Night in April twenty twenty three. Quote, 261 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:18.159 I'm going to release the final episodes in a few weeks. 262 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:21.200 My hiatus was due to having a serious surgery and 263 00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:24.320 a long recovery. I'm on the mend and excited about 264 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.279 getting these last episodes out to you. My mission has 265 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:30.919 always been to see a statewide jury convene to investigate 266 00:14:30.919 --> 00:14:34.519 the disappearance of Ray Greekar. As we're all seeing now, 267 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.919 the mighty and powerful are being held accountable. No one 268 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.440 is above the law, and I will be laser focused 269 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.039 on exposing shocking information never released to the public that 270 00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:46.600 I hope will turn the tide so there'll be justice 271 00:14:46.600 --> 00:14:49.919 for Ray Greecar. They murdered him because he was getting 272 00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.399 ready to charge who is they Stay tuned, and I 273 00:14:53.480 --> 00:14:55.639 promise you will be able to connect the dots just 274 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:59.480 as I have done. End quote. While these final episodes 275 00:14:59.600 --> 00:15:02.840 never did get released, and even though numerous comments on 276 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.600 the Facebook post have stated that they've tried to contact 277 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:09.879 Night about this, she's never provided a response. Now, Night 278 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.480 has continued to publish articles for such websites as Business Insider, 279 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:15.799 so it's good to know that she's still active and 280 00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.639 nothing bad happened to her. But it sounds like her 281 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.320 reasons were deciding to abandon The Final Argument podcast are 282 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:24.360 a pretty odd mystery within a mystery. 283 00:15:25.320 --> 00:15:27.120 I wonder what it could have been. There could have 284 00:15:27.159 --> 00:15:30.879 been legal ramifications, right, someone saying, hey, listen, I heard 285 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:33.240 that you know you interviewed somebody. I know we're gonna 286 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:36.759 come after you civilly if you won't if you mentioned 287 00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:39.480 us on this podcast. I always wonder when you have 288 00:15:39.799 --> 00:15:42.840 suspects that end up not actually being the person who 289 00:15:42.840 --> 00:15:46.440 commits the crime, right, and they've been on on hours 290 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:50.320 and hours of a show about Hey, this was the 291 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:53.039 first suspect, and then all of a sudden it pivots 292 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:55.559 and it's like, oh, it wasn't him, though that person's 293 00:15:55.600 --> 00:15:58.480 still living a life somewhere. So could it have been 294 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:01.559 something as simple as someone saying, and if you're going 295 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:03.720 to mention me in this podcast, I've already been clear 296 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:06.759 to this and I'm going to sue you. Or could 297 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:09.200 it have been something way more sinister of someone saying 298 00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:11.679 you're getting too close, you need to back off, or 299 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:13.039 maybe a combination of both. 300 00:16:13.559 --> 00:16:15.919 But don't you think that if it was the case 301 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:19.039 of somebody saying I could sue you, then that would 302 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.840 be potentially predicated on the fact that she would have 303 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:25.200 mentioned that person in previous episodes, and if that was 304 00:16:25.240 --> 00:16:27.840 the case, then those episodes would be scrubbed because you 305 00:16:27.840 --> 00:16:31.200 could just use a pseudonym going forward and say allegedly 306 00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:32.879 and be covering your bases legally. 307 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:35.240 That's true, That's very true. 308 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.840 I did listen to the entire podcast, and no one 309 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.519 was ever pushed forward as a potential suspect, like she 310 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:43.600 was hinting that there was some cover up and that 311 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:47.159 perhaps his disappearance was related to the Penn State scandal. 312 00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:51.039 But even though, like most other podcasters, seem to be 313 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:53.120 fifty to fifty and in big you us about whether 314 00:16:53.159 --> 00:16:55.919 this was a suicide or foul play, it really does 315 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.600 seem clear that Rebecca and I believes that Ray was 316 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.559 murdered and that there was some sort of cover up. 317 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.720 But she was always very uh on the down low 318 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:06.319 about what she really thought was happened. And unfortunately we 319 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:08.640 may never know, and I do have to wonder did 320 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.079 she feel threatened or did she find that she was 321 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.039 going down the wrong track and potentially pointing the finger 322 00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.480 at suspects who were innocent. We just may never know. 323 00:17:18.079 --> 00:17:20.920 Well, and if she found out information that she believed 324 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:23.720 could be somehow maybe tied to Penn State or like 325 00:17:23.759 --> 00:17:28.279 the institution itself, then maybe she was fearful that if 326 00:17:28.279 --> 00:17:30.400 she was going to put information out there, it would 327 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.680 be considered libelous, and like Ashley had said earlier, maybe 328 00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:35.680 they would be taking her to court. So she just 329 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:36.920 abandoned it completely. 330 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:40.200 Yeah, I can definitely understand why, Like, obviously, do you 331 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:43.759 accuse someone like Jerry Sandusky who's already in prison, it's 332 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:45.240 probably not going to be a big deal. But if 333 00:17:45.240 --> 00:17:47.680 there's an implication that people who are still out there 334 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:50.240 and walking free might have had something to do with 335 00:17:50.279 --> 00:17:52.559 what happened to Ray, I can understand the fear of 336 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:54.079 making that information public. 337 00:17:54.519 --> 00:17:56.200 Yeah, And thinking about it, if she was talking about a 338 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:58.319 cover up, you know, is it someone in the prosecutor's 339 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.000 office that's trying to quote cover up but murdered. Did 340 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:03.519 they have loose ends that they didn't want Ray to 341 00:18:03.839 --> 00:18:06.359 share or things like that. So, I mean, it's not 342 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.359 even necessarily a suspect in the criminal world, right, like 343 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.920 the Hell's Angels or something like that. Think about if 344 00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:15.240 it was professional people that she was heading at, and 345 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:18.880 the kind of power and control and money that could 346 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:20.799 be behind someone saying hey, you need to back off 347 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:21.640 of this story. 348 00:18:22.759 --> 00:18:24.759 So, like I just said, I did listen to all 349 00:18:24.759 --> 00:18:27.799 the episodes of Final Arguments, and while Rebecca Knight never 350 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.039 explicitly said what she believes happened, it seemed clear that 351 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.160 she suspected foul play in a cover up, even though 352 00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:36.640 the podcast was never finished. I do want to share 353 00:18:36.680 --> 00:18:39.119 a couple of new pieces of information that I learned 354 00:18:39.160 --> 00:18:42.119 from listening to it. Now the three main theories which 355 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:43.880 have always been pushed forward in this case or that 356 00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.160 Ray's disappearance was a homicide, suicide, or intentional walk away, 357 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:50.480 though most people would agree that the third theory is 358 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:53.880 far less likely than the first two. One detail which 359 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.720 has always been cited as evidence that Ray was murdered 360 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:58.759 and had another person with him at the time he 361 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.680 went missing is the presence of cigarette ash on the 362 00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:05.039 floor of as Mini Cooper. As Ray detested smoking and 363 00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:08.279 would not allow people to smoke inside his car. Since 364 00:19:08.319 --> 00:19:10.319 there were two cigarette butts on the ground near the 365 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.359 passenger side of the vehicle, it's possible the ash could 366 00:19:13.359 --> 00:19:15.960 have been caused by someone smoking while leaning in through 367 00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.960 the side window to speak with Ray. But even so, 368 00:19:19.240 --> 00:19:21.440 who could this person have been and why were they 369 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:25.160 chatting with Ray and Louisbourg. Well, according tonight, there was 370 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:27.880 no mention of the ash or a cigarette smell or 371 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:31.680 anything cigarette related in the original police reports, even though 372 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.599 many accounts state that the police detected the strong scent 373 00:19:34.680 --> 00:19:38.079 of cigarette smoke when they first entered the vehicle. I'm 374 00:19:38.119 --> 00:19:40.920 not saying that the detail about the cigarette ash is false, 375 00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.200 as it's been reported many times by many different sources, 376 00:19:44.519 --> 00:19:47.680 and was even specifically mentioned by one of the investigators 377 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.119 during an interview on Disappeared. But perhaps the story about 378 00:19:51.119 --> 00:19:54.759 the cigarette smell has been greatly exaggerated for dramatic purposes, 379 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:56.279 you know, and or. 380 00:19:56.279 --> 00:19:59.200 Someone at some point said there was a cigarette ash 381 00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:02.640 or cigarette app you know, cigarette ashes found in the car, 382 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:05.920 and maybe the cigarettes were outside the car, right, And 383 00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:08.319 so they're going, hey, is it linked? And then it 384 00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:10.240 was like a game of telephone where all of a 385 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:13.240 sudden it takes on its own life of its own 386 00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:16.240 and they're saying, oh, remember there were cigarette ash found 387 00:20:16.279 --> 00:20:18.200 in the car. I mean, if it's on the original 388 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.200 police report, it's possible it went from there's two cigarette 389 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.160 butts outside the car to then somehow there's evidence of 390 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.359 that inside the car, when maybe that wasn't even the case. 391 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.400 I would definitely believe that, And if that is the case, 392 00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:35.039 then it's possible that the cigarette butts were smoked by 393 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:37.799 someone completely unrelated who had nothing to do with Ray 394 00:20:37.880 --> 00:20:39.839 and just happened to put their butts out in that 395 00:20:39.880 --> 00:20:40.559 parking lot. 396 00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:44.640 It's been confirmed that latent fingerprints were found on the 397 00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:49.119 exterior drive side passenger window and door handle, which matched Ray, 398 00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:52.319 his girlfriend, Patty, and a receptionist to work to the 399 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.440 Center County Courthouse and will raised. DNA and a fingerprint 400 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:59.119 were on the label of the water bottle inside the car. 401 00:20:59.559 --> 00:21:02.799