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Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peakingana Show.

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I'm here with Carl Doll. How are you doing, Carl

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doing all?

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Speaker 2: Thanks?

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Speaker 1: Pete? Is I assume doll is properly the proper pronunciation, right.

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Speaker 2: That is correct?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yep, okay, yeah it doesn't. It's not specifically d

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o l L, but it's going to sound that way

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to people anyway. So all right, tell everybody a little

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bit about yourself.

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Speaker 2: Sure. I am an author and ship poster. I'm the

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author of Faction and Faction with the Crusaders, the latter

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being my most recent novel that came out a couple

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of months ago, which is about, uh, you know, fictional

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events within the reality of the Spanish Civil War from

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an American perspective, because as as an American, Uh, it's

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much easier to tell stories, uh that are informative and

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interesting from a point of view that you yourself can

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can relate to.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting because I think the first book I

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read about the Spanish Civil War was mine wre of Trouble. Yeah,

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and that's yeah, that's coming from a British standpoint. And

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then there's really the the most famous books out there

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are pretty much from British standpoints, the ones that are

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in English, the ones that are Spanish.

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Speaker 2: The most challenging thing with this topic is just the

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lack of material in English or it's super super laser

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focused on, you know, certain aspects of it. You have,

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you know, you have good old George Orwell, who frankly,

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in homage to Catalonia, explains that he knows nothing about

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Spain and nothing about what's going on there, and nothing

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about the political parties. But he's a you know, a

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lib tard. So he stumbles in and manages to uh

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not die when a Carlo Strekete shoots him in the

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throat and stumbles out and you know, escapes from the

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n k VD in Barcelona. So yeah, it's a it's

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it's kind of fraught with that, and the the material

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is also very limited that we're exposed to a lot

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of the good stuff I heard, I've heard your whole

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series that you did with Thomas seven seven seven, and

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you make references to some really good source material that's

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a little bit older, you know, beyond the kind of

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Hugh Thomas, Hugh Thomases of the world. And and that's

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where it's really important to kind of you know, expand

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and and not just take what the current like supposed

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authoritative material is off of the the shelf, so that

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you can get some insights into a topic that's a

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lot more complicated. Stanley Paine specifically, I know that you've mentioned,

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and he's like the English language specialist on this topic,

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and very few people have read Stanley Paine, which is

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a shame.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, bevar, even though he has obvious leanings towards the

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left and especially the libertarian left in Spain, he does

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a really good job of laying out the facts of

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what happened, and then obviously pain is the pain is

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the guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's funny. Have you ever seen any of

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the the interviews that are online from students of his,

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you know, especially as time went by later into the

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into the aughts. They're really funny because you have these,

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you know, basically libtards who know nothing, who are college age,

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who assumed that because he is a professor in good

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standing at University of Chicago, and you know, it's talking

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about he's like one of the biggest experts on twentieth

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century fascism, right as well as the Spanish Civil War,

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And they're just befuddled because he's like correcting them on no,

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I don't really think that, you know, Franco was a

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you know, according to Hoyle fascist, And they just lose

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their minds when people who are actually informed on these

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things talk, and you know, what does the average person

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know about the Spanish Civil War? They're like, Franco worked

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with scary mustache man and they got rid of a

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republic which is bad and something something George Orwell and

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they haven't actually read George.

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Speaker 1: Orwell, yeah, or Ernest Hemingway and everything based comes out

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of the left. And if you want to try to

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find a copy of Kemp's book, and you know, if

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it wasn't for Mystery Grove in places like that republishing,

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we wouldn't. You know, you're paying two three four hundred

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dollars for him.

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Speaker 2: So the nice thing is a fair bit of the

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old Spanish material is becoming available online or you can

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order it for pretty cheap. The problem is most people

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don't speak Spanish or read Spanish. I do not, super well.

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I'm a lot better at it than I was, you know,

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five years ago. Because little timeline for how I ended

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up writing this, I've been working on I've been writing

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for a long time, but I had to kind of

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go through the crucible as it were, personally and grow

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up so that I could write anything that meant, anything

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that I felt was you know, worth putting out there.

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And I had a project that been there forever, which

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is my first book, Faction, which is it takes place

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in the nineties. It's about essentially a family involved in

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the peripheral world of espionage, you know, semi unofficial you know,

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CIA cut out type, the people that are you know

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x x CIA who administer the things from like private

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companies and stuff like that, you know, the all the

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dirty tricks and in black black off books things, and

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the kind of the scion of the family who started

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this whole deal got a start in the Spanish Civil

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War and I kind of came up with that a

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long time ago, and I don't know why, And in reality,

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I didn't know that much about the Spanish Civil War

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other than like one or two general histories and you know,

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or Well and that BBC documentary series, which is very good.

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I definitely recommend that people watch that. It's out on

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YouTube as a as a you know, initial toe wedding

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or if they're just not familiar with it at all.

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And then after I published that book and I was

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thinking about what I was going to do next, I

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was like, I really want to do a prequel, but

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I and I think it'll be about you know, Joseph

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Shea in the Spanish Civil War, and so I had

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to get to you know, get to work researching, and

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Minor of Trouble was just re released by mister Grove

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in twenty nineteen. I think I got the book in

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twenty nineteen and it was pretty new, and when I

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read it, it helped me connect emotionally with the story,

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or personally rather with characters and you know, lowal color

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and people, whereas most of the material is pretty you know,

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pretty dry when you're looking at histories and everything like that.

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And it's interesting to people like us, But how do

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you create a story, a compelling story out of that?

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And what I figured out for myself is if I

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don't have something compelling behind what I'm writing, if there

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isn't some big things that I'm trying to convey, I'm

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just not going to be successful at doing so. And

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so that's what I really needed that helped me connect

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and what it really did is get me diving into

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the carlist recutees who I feel like, we're the most

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interesting faction of the war and their history and most

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importantly how they kind of survived as as a movement

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over time. You know, failures and let's try it again,

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Let's try another you know another war failure, Well, let's

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try it again, you know, partial success, and then everyone

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goes into the twentieth century and it's kind of stumbling around,

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and it's just so analogous for our current situation, very

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different in a lot of ways, and part of what

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I ended up doing when I was writing this is

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leaning into those elements where, you know, unfortunately, as it

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is right now, you know, people on the right, especially online,

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say oh, well, we would just automatically win a civil

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war because we have all the guns, because Franco won.

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And it's like, well, the right was extremely organized and

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they had been trying for they had been doing this

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for a really long time by the time the Civil

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War kicked off, and you know, it's anathema for the

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right to organize in America now, Like in their DNA,

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you look at libertarians and such and like you, I'm

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a former libertarian, although I was former earlier than you were,

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and yeah, it's just like they're completely allergic to it

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in a fundamental fashion. And even the anarchists of Spain,

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there's any successes that they had in Catalonia, which they

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were very successful in my opinion at least in getting

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going before their beliefs kind of put the brakes on

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any success they might have. They basically said, let's throw

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elements of our ideology out the window, and let's organize

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and let's have a hierarchy, because the basically they used

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to always try to do the old you know, well,

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we'll start a general revolt and then the people will

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rise up and then will win, and that just didn't work.

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And they finally kind of admitted that to themselves and

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put into work a very serious effort. And so I

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have a couple of articles about that actually that are

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on my substack as well as in the appendix of

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this book. One is about how they created the five bomb,

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the Fai hand grenade that shows up a lot in

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Orwell's work. They had like thirty five thousand of them.

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When the anarchists the Drudi column went up to defend

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Madrid from from Franco's you know, oncoming forces, because they

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had spent so much time and effort and money into

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building as many of these as they could for their

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pending revolution, which uh they used the military uprising to

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kick that off. There's also information about their organizational structure

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because I found some really good books on the subject

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that are very obscure because they're you know, anarchist books,

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and people on the write don't read their enemies works,

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and it would behoove people to do so, because there's

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some really great information in there that would be particularly

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relevant to the current age. And that's all.

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Speaker 1: I'll say. A question the interest in the Carlos. Are

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you Catholic?

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Speaker 2: I am? I am Christian, but I am not Catholic.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, I was just wondering.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's just say this awakens some interest in things,

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and I was when I looked my German side of

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the family, I found we're Catholic right up into the

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eighteen hundreds and then became prats along with so much

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of America in the mid eighteen hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The for those who are Catholic a really good

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book on I don't know, did you read The Last

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Crusade by Carol?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's in my bibliography. That's that's on my substack,

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as well as in the appendix. An amazing book of

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so moving.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it just because it was Yeah, I was. There

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were there were times when I was reading it where

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I got emotional.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to put it down quite a bit.

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I lent it to my mother, which wasn't probably the

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greatest idea, because she just said it made me so sad,

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and I was like, well, that's you know. The reason

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I gave it to you is because she had the

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whole Well, they overthrew a republic and that's bad, and

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I'm like, nope. They killed ten thousand, you know, clergy, nuns,

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monks and lay people in the first three months of

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the war, and that was what they were all about.

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The La Revolucion social and the social revolution. That's that

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was the anarchists. That was the communists. You know, when

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you when you read the Why We Failed, that the anarchists.

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Actually there's a huge body of work of the Spanish

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anarchists who went into exile afterwards, the people that were

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involved in all kinds of levels of leadership, and it's

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really interesting stuff and they talk about why they failed

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and other times they'll refer to it as the necessary

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defeat of May nineteen thirty seven, or is it possibly

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July thirty seven, when the basically the communist central government,

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the army especially took over Catalonia from the the anarchists

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and the CNTFAI decided that they would purge all the

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all the various you know, socialist and anarchist groups that

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weren't going to cooperate with the central focus of the war.

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They've written ream of material on this, and it's never

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the problem that the ideology is never the problem. It's always, well,

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we wanted the social revolution, which was what it was

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really all about, and it was overthrown by those means Stalinists,

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whereas the Stalinists were like, we needed to actually win

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the war or it wasn't going to go anywhere, and

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both of those things are true. But they were also horrible,

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evil people and deserved everything they got and more.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one thing that people don't want to hear

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is when you know. One of the reasons why I

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believe that the so much propaganda around making the Republicans

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and their faction into the victims of all of this

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is really to just cover up their crimes, because yeah,

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on the right, there were some, really, there were some,

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there were crimes that definitely needed to be dealt with,

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especially from some of the folks from Morocco and Northern Africa. Yeah. Yeah,

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but when you came, but when you really compare, I mean,

240
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right from the beginning. I mean, I think we talked

241
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about this in our series that in the span of

242
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three months they killed three times more just Catholic clergy

243
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:31,799
and laity and seminarians than were killed and were executed

244
00:16:31,799 --> 00:16:34,559
in the Inquisition over the span of three hundred and

245
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fifty years.

246
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know they're the counter to that is

247
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because they talk about the Red terror, right, and then

248
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,440
there's and I show some of the Red terror in

249
00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:48,360
the book, Like one of the main characters before everyone

250
00:16:48,399 --> 00:16:52,000
knows what's up with him, he has to make a

251
00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,399
choice when he's on the front with the anarchists in

252
00:16:56,600 --> 00:17:02,840
Oregon and they they're basically going to execute a American

253
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:07,519
volunteer who ended up on the line because he went

254
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:13,119
to Barcelona for the People's Olympiad, which was scheduled to

255
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:17,559
start the day of the military uprising. It was the

256
00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,880
you know, there's this whole thing where you know, the

257
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nineteen thirty six Olympics, you know, that was when you know,

258
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:31,119
Jesse Owens like defeated Hitler according to television, which is

259
00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,720
silly because that you know, Hitler didn't disrespect him or

260
00:17:34,759 --> 00:17:38,680
anything like that. It's all this this post post war hope.

261
00:17:38,759 --> 00:17:43,440
But anyway, there was an alternative because the USSR boycotted

262
00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:52,319
the Olympics and they hosted a communist international you know

263
00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:59,799
alternative in Barcelona that and there was instantly like a

264
00:17:59,799 --> 00:18:03,000
whole whole bunch of international fighters that were anarchists and

265
00:18:03,039 --> 00:18:08,119
socialists and communists in Barcelona because of this event, and

266
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,240
a whole bunch of them ended up on the line,

267
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:17,839
you know, because after capturing Barcelona and Catalonia around it,

268
00:18:18,319 --> 00:18:23,720
they started pushing north to Aragon because they wanted to

269
00:18:23,759 --> 00:18:26,680
fight the Carlists out in the countryside as well as

270
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,039
to just terrorize, you know, all the all the locals

271
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,400
wherever they could, and the Carlists stopped them in kind

272
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of southern Aragon. And so this volunt this American volunteer

273
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:47,319
who goes there and because it's an adventure and you know,

274
00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:50,240
doesn't really know much and as kind of a political

275
00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:55,359
is going to get executed because some of the the

276
00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,240
communists taking over the front. You know, they have the army,

277
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,440
they don't have the numbers because at the time all

278
00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:11,200
the little local militias were running things, but the central

279
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,480
government's army was being communized. They had the red star

280
00:19:14,559 --> 00:19:17,960
on their uniforms for officers, and they had commissars and

281
00:19:18,039 --> 00:19:24,200
everything like that, and it was being basically managed by

282
00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:30,759
the NKVD as well as a huge Soviet international group.

283
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:34,160
This is independent of the international brigades, but there were

284
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:37,759
a whole bunch of internationals involved as quote unquote advisors

285
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:41,400
with the Spanish army. And so they're going to execute

286
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,920
this guy because he wears his grandfather's crucifix and he's

287
00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,119
an American and he doesn't really understand what's going on

288
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,000
because they're like, oh, well, we're fighting fascists. So I

289
00:19:49,079 --> 00:19:53,440
made him kind of a naive college student, right, And

290
00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,200
so the main character has to make a decision because

291
00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,240
he's going to get executed. There's a sham t The

292
00:20:01,319 --> 00:20:03,960
anarchists support him because they were with him, you know,

293
00:20:04,039 --> 00:20:06,440
he he came to the front with them and they

294
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,720
like him and everything like that. But the hardliners want

295
00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:14,119
to kill him and so during a carlist attack on

296
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:19,960
their on their mostly crappy positions, he he dips out

297
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,920
with the guy, he rescues him in a in a fun,

298
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:30,400
little violent bloodbath, and ends up tries to like go

299
00:20:30,599 --> 00:20:34,240
back to being a reporter, you know, which is kind

300
00:20:34,279 --> 00:20:37,880
of his cover. Ends up in Madrid and is taken

301
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,200
to a cheka as soon as the de Rudi column

302
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,599
gets up into that area and starts spreading information about,

303
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,599
you know, their various suspects in all these areas, and

304
00:20:49,799 --> 00:20:53,240
so at that point he has to make a make

305
00:20:53,279 --> 00:20:55,920
a choice, like I can't be undercover anymore. I have

306
00:20:55,960 --> 00:21:00,480
to do something different. And it's crazy because and when

307
00:21:00,519 --> 00:21:03,119
you look into the realities of what was going on,

308
00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,480
the Red Terror was horrific, and it was going on

309
00:21:07,559 --> 00:21:09,960
for a very long time. In the cope is always

310
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,480
oh well, it was at the very beginning, and all

311
00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:16,519
these disparate groups got out of hand, and then the

312
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:19,880
central government tried to rein it in and get control

313
00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,000
of it. And the truth is there was a fair

314
00:21:24,039 --> 00:21:26,400
bit of that on the right as well, but it

315
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,640
wasn't nearly as bad. And the big numbers that they

316
00:21:30,759 --> 00:21:35,240
bring to the table from the rightist groups committing atrocities

317
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,599
are like you said, the Moroccan Army of Africa troops.

318
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,440
So there's some atrocities, but that was nipped in the bud.

319
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,440
And you'll notice that there isn't a great deal of

320
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,799
information about how it was nipped in the bud. Essentially

321
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:56,359
when you dig into it, some examples were high profile

322
00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,079
examples were made that this was not going to be tolerated.

323
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,240
They did a lot of looting also, and so that

324
00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:07,359
got rained in and basically after the drive to Madrid

325
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:11,720
and that the front's kind of stabilized and Franco, you know,

326
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:15,279
things really centralized, and Franco really got control over everyone

327
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,400
because beforehand it was you know, you were under your

328
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,079
general and that was it. And because they didn't really

329
00:22:21,559 --> 00:22:24,759
know exactly who was going to be running things at

330
00:22:24,759 --> 00:22:29,400
any given point, it was just a rampage. And then

331
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:33,880
as they consolidated the the you know, Franco side of things,

332
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,599
they had actual standards of behavior that people would be

333
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:43,920
held to and they you know, they had trials for

334
00:22:44,039 --> 00:22:47,680
these people. Now in fairness, and I show this in

335
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,119
the book as well. The general rule was when they

336
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,240
captured the internationals, they would just execute them, whereas the

337
00:22:56,279 --> 00:23:00,559
Spaniards would be triaged, put into camps where maybe they

338
00:23:00,559 --> 00:23:03,640
were going to go into a labor battalion, maybe they

339
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,119
were going to stay in a prison camp. Because of

340
00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,720
atrocities that they committed, they would be investigated. A decent

341
00:23:11,799 --> 00:23:15,880
number of them were executed, like rightfully so, but the

342
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,279
vast majority of the people that were captured as POWs

343
00:23:20,799 --> 00:23:25,759
by the nationalists spent actually spent very little time in

344
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:28,880
prison camps and in labor battalions. By the end of

345
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,839
World War Two, they were pretty much all out, and

346
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,720
in fact, the vast majority of them were out by

347
00:23:33,759 --> 00:23:37,559
the early forties because the general policy was if you

348
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,440
were if you were just a volunteer or you were

349
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,680
just a libtard, but you didn't commit atrocities, you know

350
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,519
you your service was over in a couple of years.

351
00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:56,440
You were basically they guaranteed that you didn't by investigation,

352
00:23:56,759 --> 00:24:01,400
that you didn't involve yourself in atrocities, and they just

353
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,279
put you to work because they needed to bring the

354
00:24:03,279 --> 00:24:05,680
country back, they needed to dig themselves out of the

355
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:09,519
huge hole that they were in, and they weren't. You know,

356
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,400
there's plenty of people now who will criticize that and

357
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:15,599
say that you know, Franco didn't do enough because look

358
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,720
at Spain now, But he wasn't really in a position

359
00:24:17,799 --> 00:24:23,039
to do that because of the nature of the types

360
00:24:23,079 --> 00:24:27,799
of diplomatic conversations that were taking place with the Americans

361
00:24:27,799 --> 00:24:31,079
and the British. There's a there's actually a really good

362
00:24:31,079 --> 00:24:35,720
book on the subject that's mostly focused on World War

363
00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:44,279
Two and the British kind of maneuvering. Oh here it is.

364
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,720
It's called a balancing act British intelligence in Spain during

365
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:50,880
the Second World War. But one of the things that

366
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,079
comes out of that is a lot of these conversations

367
00:24:53,160 --> 00:25:00,279
happened early in the actual Spanish Civil War because people

368
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:06,440
might forget this, but the nationalists were receiving American trucks

369
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:13,319
and fuel from American and British companies on credit, and

370
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:15,400
so there was a there was a wink and a

371
00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:20,119
nod by the governments of the UK and the US

372
00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:27,039
because the British essentially figured out very early that, you know,

373
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:31,559
it would be better to have the nationalists in charge

374
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:39,799
than communist country, you know, in Western Europe. And the

375
00:25:39,839 --> 00:25:44,079
other aspect of that is that American intelligence operations were

376
00:25:44,279 --> 00:25:47,000
joined at the hip with the British for a very

377
00:25:47,039 --> 00:25:52,480
long time, as shown by Bill Donovan, who created the OSS,

378
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:57,599
who shows up in this story because coincidentally he was

379
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,519
in the same town for conferences as my character when

380
00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:04,079
I was doing some research and I was like, holy shit,

381
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,599
so I may I make I make some things happen there,

382
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:16,920
because uh, Bill Donovan was. I wouldn't say that basically,

383
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,359
the OSS as it came to be would not have

384
00:26:19,519 --> 00:26:23,880
existed if it wasn't for uh, British intelligence people that

385
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,640
he had been working with for years and years, because

386
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,480
there was no American civilian intelligence organization. The Secret Service

387
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:37,599
did a fair bit of foreign intelligence, but Bill Donovan

388
00:26:38,519 --> 00:26:44,160
worked with FDR because they had both they were class

389
00:26:44,319 --> 00:26:49,839
college classmates, and uh, you know, he trusted him, and

390
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,359
he was a World War One vet, he was an

391
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:57,759
international business He had gone to gone to Russia during

392
00:26:57,839 --> 00:27:02,160
the Russian Revolution, uh to do intelligence and had been

393
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,359
traveling around and in fact, Mussolini liked him and respected

394
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:10,640
him and allowed him to go to Ethiopia to check

395
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,200
out what the Italians were up to there. And so

396
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:16,920
he was literally just like filing these reports for you know,

397
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:24,000
the US government with you know, Mussolini's blessing essentially because

398
00:27:24,039 --> 00:27:27,000
he thought he was, you know, a cool guy with

399
00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,319
a firm grip and who looked you in the eyes.

400
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:35,079
And it's it's it's all very interesting how how personality

401
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,200
driven that stuff was. But yeah, that they had been

402
00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:42,680
negotiating with Franco's people forever and so there was gonna

403
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:46,359
be no situation where there was some you know, insane

404
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,400
blood bath. It was, and I don't think that that

405
00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:52,119
was like in the character of Franco either, when you

406
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:55,279
look at what they actually did. I think you mentioned

407
00:27:55,279 --> 00:28:00,119
Bevor's book where he has a lot of great number

408
00:28:01,599 --> 00:28:07,319
and he has the updated kind of Spanish academic official

409
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,319
position on a lot of things where they've gone back

410
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,839
and they've said, oh, well, we figured out that Aguernica,

411
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,640
it wasn't twelve hundred who died. There were maybe like

412
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,799
one hundred and some and you know, but it was

413
00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:23,000
also really bad, but it wasn't as bad as we

414
00:28:23,039 --> 00:28:25,359
think it was, because now we know that there was

415
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:30,240
a combat operations taking place, and so you know, it's

416
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:35,000
it's all this really interesting stuff where every time you

417
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:37,960
look at something that the right does that is vilified

418
00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:41,839
and you examine it, there's all these qualifiers that make

419
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,640
it look like stuff that's well this you know, yeah, sure,

420
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:50,200
there were some situations where you know, they a phalangeist

421
00:28:50,319 --> 00:28:55,599
executed a poet who was a communist, a gay communist

422
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,799
or something like that. But does that make up for

423
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,799
the fact that they were slaughtering people over here or yeah,

424
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:06,599
we know that there was this atrocity in literal combat

425
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:12,920
situation where they shot like the nationalists shot like thirteen

426
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,240
hundred people in a bull ring over time because they

427
00:29:16,279 --> 00:29:18,920
didn't know what to do with all these POWs. And

428
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,880
it's like, that's bad. But is that worse than going

429
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640
around and murdering priests and destroying a third of the

430
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:30,039
churches in Spain and you know, starving people out and

431
00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:34,200
you know, raping nuns and stuff like that. So it's

432
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:35,240
it's crazy.

433
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: I was just I was just recorded the other night

434
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,559
with Jay out O pol. I don't know if you

435
00:29:39,759 --> 00:29:44,559
if you're familiar with Jonathan with Otto and he's his

436
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:51,880
specialty is on basically persecution of Germans in Soviet Russia.

437
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:58,000
Ah interesting, And I mean you don't have to be

438
00:29:58,039 --> 00:30:00,720
in wartime. I mean, oh yea, this is stuff that

439
00:30:00,759 --> 00:30:04,079
happens in wartime. I mean during the terror they were

440
00:30:04,519 --> 00:30:08,400
like forty thousand Germans who just were diaspora Germans who

441
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,119
were in the Soviet Union. They just put bullets in

442
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,960
the back of their head. Oh yeah, yeah, so it's yeah,

443
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,279
and you know, reminder, you know what side, what side

444
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,079
was the Soviet Union on in in this in this

445
00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:28,240
fight in Spain. And obviously, you know, one thing I

446
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:30,839
like to talk about is I call this I call

447
00:30:31,039 --> 00:30:34,000
the Spanish Civil War World War one and a half. Yeah,

448
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,599
because yeah, it's just so obvious that if if Spain,

449
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,119
if the if the nationalists lose that war, basically the

450
00:30:44,799 --> 00:30:48,440
bottom half of the peninsula belongs to Soviet Russia.

451
00:30:48,759 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, So I.

452
00:30:51,359 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: Mean you're going to do anything you can to win.

453
00:30:56,559 --> 00:31:00,680
And yeah, it's it's always the.

454
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:02,799
Speaker 2: You know.

455
00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: I mean we can call this, oh imagine if the

456
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,000
roles were reversed or you know, pointing out hypocrisy, But

457
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,279
it's because of who controls the press exactly exactly, who

458
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:20,720
whose crimes are whose crimes are magnified more than any other.

459
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:21,559
You know.

460
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,559
Speaker 2: It's it's interesting that you mentioned that because you're reading

461
00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:29,279
Blockade right now, which is outstanding, and I just want

462
00:31:29,279 --> 00:31:32,400
to I want to compliment you on on what you're

463
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,039
doing reading all these old works that address things that

464
00:31:37,079 --> 00:31:40,160
people just don't think about. Millions of people died of

465
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,680
starvation for no reason. Well not for no reason. We

466
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:48,079
know why they died of starvation. It was because they

467
00:31:48,119 --> 00:31:51,119
had been targeted for death because of who they were,

468
00:31:51,839 --> 00:31:57,000
not anything that they did. And you know, that's that's

469
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:04,599
not cool. Man. The I mentioned Guernica. I mentioned Guernica,

470
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,359
and this plays out in the book a little bit.

471
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,559
Kemp talks about it. I take a I take a

472
00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:17,400
different position than Kemp. My position on Guernica was that

473
00:32:17,519 --> 00:32:23,240
it was a combat operation that you know, yeah, there

474
00:32:23,279 --> 00:32:26,920
was a lot of confusion, but it was a combat

475
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:31,039
operation that was exploited for propaganda. And it was literally

476
00:32:31,559 --> 00:32:38,559
just the very first time something that became basically old

477
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,680
hat to the whole world was employed, which was the

478
00:32:42,799 --> 00:32:47,640
bombing of a civilian population in wartime. And in fact,

479
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:52,279
it's far more justifiable because of the nature of what

480
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:58,440
actually happened. You know, Yes, there's evidence, there was evidence

481
00:32:58,519 --> 00:33:06,519
in testimony from eyewitnesses that the retreating Republican forces, particularly

482
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:12,240
the more far left ones who were not Basque, were

483
00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:15,359
involved in you know, doing what they do, which is

484
00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:21,680
demolishing buildings and stuff on the approach to you know,

485
00:33:21,799 --> 00:33:26,319
leave rubble to slow the nationalist advance because they were

486
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,319
moving towards that position and were on the ground within

487
00:33:29,599 --> 00:33:33,720
a couple of days, and so yeah, it was exploited.

488
00:33:34,839 --> 00:33:39,720
It was it was actual combat. Yes, it's bad when

489
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,160
aviation is used to you know, bomb an area where

490
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,759
there's a civilian population. But it was literally just the

491
00:33:47,799 --> 00:33:52,319
first time something that became totally normal happened, and so

492
00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:57,960
by vilifying someone for it and then you just World

493
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:03,640
War two firebomb you know, capitals that it only serves

494
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,200
to wipe out the and terrorize the civilian population of

495
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,119
a place. It's just that whole you know, accuse the

496
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,880
enemy of doing what you're doing kind of a situation.

497
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,119
And in fact, there's another aspect of this that you

498
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:22,760
don't see talked about in English language material. There's a

499
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:27,480
great website called recataz dot com. It's all Spanish language,

500
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:36,559
but it's basically hardcore traditionalist Catholic guys in I think

501
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:42,119
Navarre is that the main guy was in Navarre. And

502
00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:44,639
I've archived it because it's been up for a long

503
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,119
time and there isn't that much new stuff that happens

504
00:34:47,119 --> 00:34:51,000
to it, so I'm concerned that it'll go away. But

505
00:34:51,119 --> 00:34:58,960
it has thousands and thousands of pages of personal testimonies

506
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,519
of people who are involved in the Carlist, Recitees, and

507
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:04,360
the war in general. And I found a couple of

508
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,599
books through there that I was able to track down,

509
00:35:07,599 --> 00:35:11,599
and one of them was from the guy that was

510
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:18,400
essentially the founder of the the recite militias and the

511
00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:24,000
Navarre Brigades UH. He created the essentially their secret army,

512
00:35:24,039 --> 00:35:29,079
their their first militia that was built out in the

513
00:35:29,119 --> 00:35:37,519
early thirties because during the Primo de Rivera dictatorship, you

514
00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:40,920
absolutely were not going to be getting away with nor

515
00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:45,599
was there need to get away with creating an illegal

516
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:50,840
mass militia for a right winger. But that was something

517
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,199
that was reactivated under the Republic because the Republic was

518
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:59,960
so sometimes they'll use the term openly secular and which

519
00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:03,039
is really anti religious right because they were they were

520
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:07,679
passing laws that were that outlawed the church, essentially that

521
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:11,360
nationalized all church buildings and then they had to start

522
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,079
paying taxes to the state and rent to the state.

523
00:36:14,599 --> 00:36:21,360
They banned religious education in a country where pretty much

524
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,679
all of the education for the masses was religious in nature,

525
00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:29,239
so you would have to basically shut down every school,

526
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,400
and if you got a school after that, you would

527
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:39,360
have communist teachers. Looks familiar and the other aspect of

528
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:45,199
it also is no public expression of religion. No, you know,

529
00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:49,239
no parades. They're doing something similar in Poland. Didn't they

530
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,119
ban public display of the cross or something like that recently,

531
00:36:54,159 --> 00:36:55,119
which is insane?

532
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:59,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, what is it Catholic?

533
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So, so the you know, they they spun

534
00:37:04,679 --> 00:37:07,360
up up in the north. And one of the things

535
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:11,239
that hasn't talked about that much is that the it

536
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:18,719
was easy for the the Carlist Recutees to recruit conservative

537
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:23,400
Basques to join the nationalist forces. There were quite a

538
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:26,880
few that were under arms, you know, in the in

539
00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:31,840
the Republican militias, well the Basque militias, not the super

540
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,400
hardcore lefty basques like the Ascutee and then I'm probably

541
00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,360
mispronouncing that, but but a whole bunch of the people

542
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:44,440
that were essentially conscripted went over to to the nationalists,

543
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:50,119
including the guys who designed the the iron belt, the

544
00:37:50,159 --> 00:37:54,599
defenses of Bilbao. They just went right over to the

545
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,000
nationalists and handed the plans over here you go. But

546
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:01,920
one of the one of the decisions that was made

547
00:38:02,079 --> 00:38:12,119
after the bombing was that because of the fact that

548
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:16,559
not only civilian populations, but a lot of their Basque

549
00:38:16,559 --> 00:38:22,920
heritage was being destroyed in the war, the Navarre Brigades

550
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:31,920
essentially established a policy where they would not tolerate aerial

551
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:37,800
bombing of populated areas, and so they made themselves shock

552
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:44,559
troops and they essentially sacrificed themselves to save the civilian

553
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,360
to reduce the casualties against the civilian population. They took massive,

554
00:38:49,679 --> 00:38:54,519
massive casualties in the war in the north, and yeah,

555
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,639
sure there was still aviation bombing, but.

556
00:38:59,079 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: It was.

557
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 2: It was much more coordinated to where they were essentially

558
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:10,039
only approving certain kinds of targets. And there's actually a

559
00:39:10,079 --> 00:39:13,320
decent amount of evidence for this, and in the testimony

560
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:21,079
in these books. The Navarre Brigade Carlists went into Guernica

561
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,719
and established a line around the what do they call

562
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,719
it the Tree of Guernica, which was outside of their

563
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,440
their hall and was very important to them. They had

564
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,079
been essentially giving the law and they the the kings

565
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,280
of the Basque regions would be crowned under the tree,

566
00:39:43,639 --> 00:39:47,639
and any time their legislature which had been went back

567
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:52,679
a very very long time under their their old fueros,

568
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:56,880
their old rights and privileges, and that the legal code

569
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,239
that that they had in place for themselves, which is

570
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,920
the whole reason that they had a kind of separatist movement. Anyway,

571
00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:08,079
they they guarded it with their lives, and there was

572
00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:12,400
there's a story of some some philogists from other parts

573
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,760
of the country going up there with it with axes

574
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,079
to cut down the Tree of Guernica and the basically

575
00:40:20,159 --> 00:40:24,119
the colonel from the No Barbara Gate had a fistfight

576
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,800
with another officer in front of it after calling his

577
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,599
mother a whore and just like beating each other in

578
00:40:32,639 --> 00:40:36,239
front of this, uh this tree to stop them from

579
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,039
destroying Basque heritage. And you know, it's it's just not

580
00:40:41,159 --> 00:40:44,280
something that's talked about because it was supposedly this thing

581
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,840
where well the Basque were, you know, with the Republic,

582
00:40:48,599 --> 00:40:52,159
and it's like, no that the the Basque were hugely

583
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,679
carlists that the North Going Republic is because they thought

584
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,639
that they would get some autonomy out of it, and

585
00:40:59,679 --> 00:41:03,159
they had had some element of limited autonomy under the

586
00:41:03,199 --> 00:41:07,559
Republic after the war started, but most of the people

587
00:41:07,639 --> 00:41:12,719
pushing this were were local libtard politicians. And in fact,

588
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:18,559
there is a there's a fellow and let's see if

589
00:41:18,559 --> 00:41:21,840
I can instead of stumbling over my words, I'm gonna

590
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,639
I'm gonna pull it up myself. But essentially there was

591
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:35,079
a Republican politician, a ka communist who had always opposed

592
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:39,760
any of the autonomy movements that were going on there,

593
00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:45,239
and there was so his name was Preeto so Indarethio Prieto.

594
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:46,559
Speaker 1: He was the.

595
00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:49,599
Speaker 2: Finance minister and a and a Basque member of the

596
00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:55,360
Socialist Workers Party, and his position was and I quote,

597
00:41:55,679 --> 00:42:00,639
well I quote a translation is that the bass Nevarre

598
00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:06,599
country autonomy campaign underway in the early thirties was merely

599
00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:11,639
a front for sedition by Alphonsists, Hymists, which is the Carlists,

600
00:42:12,079 --> 00:42:17,760
Nationalists and Jesuits against the republic. And then he essentially

601
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,320
dictated that they shut down almost every single Catholic newspaper

602
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:27,760
in northern Spain, and any right winger who was you know,

603
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:32,440
had ever written a quote unquote intemperate editorial. So it's

604
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:35,960
like this was a clash of it was a fight

605
00:42:36,039 --> 00:42:42,880
for their civilization and uh, you know, it wasn't some

606
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:48,679
you know dictatorship, you know with a capital D that

607
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,280
was imposed. The dictatorship happened because it was a fight

608
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:59,079
to the death and then it immediately you know what

609
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,960
happened meately at the end of the war, World War

610
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:06,679
two happened. So a lot of the things that you know,

611
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:11,440
when they're bad jacketing Franco and and you know, the

612
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,320
Spanish nationalists, they say, oh, well, look at the fact

613
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,519
that they had food rationing, you know, well into the

614
00:43:18,639 --> 00:43:23,400
nineteen forties. And it's like Britain had food rationing until

615
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,920
nineteen fifty four, Are you kidding me? Like, look at

616
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:30,320
what the rest of Europe looked like. So it was

617
00:43:30,599 --> 00:43:32,760
you know, it's just one of those things where you

618
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:37,239
put your time into researching it and it's so obvious

619
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:40,880
what the truth is. And so here I was thinking,

620
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,239
I'm going to write something fictional, it has to be

621
00:43:44,559 --> 00:43:49,320
focused on Yeah, sure there's adventure and there's interesting historical

622
00:43:49,519 --> 00:43:53,360
elements to it, but there's a greater capital T truth.

623
00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:58,360
And so if I'm not addressing that in a way

624
00:43:58,519 --> 00:44:02,400
that you know, not necessarily a polemic, you don't want

625
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,039
to be people over the head with it. But you

626
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,880
want them to come to the same conclusion as you

627
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,480
as if it was their thing that they arrived at themselves. Right,

628
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:17,719
it's propaganda, let's be honest. But you know, I feel

629
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,920
like that's that's what we have to be doing. There's

630
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:26,960
this great The earliest reference to Recuteze to reference a

631
00:44:27,119 --> 00:44:33,679
Carlist militia is in the early nineteen hundreds and they

632
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:40,280
wrote fame propaganda, which is caught Alan for let's do propaganda.

633
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,039
And I just love that so much. I'm like, if

634
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:46,280
I say fem propaganda, it looks like fem right, So

635
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:48,559
English speakers are going to be like, what the hell

636
00:44:48,639 --> 00:44:50,920
is that? But I'll talk about it, but I'm not

637
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:53,599
writing it because people immediately say that sounds gay.

638
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,800
Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to go back to

639
00:44:57,079 --> 00:45:01,360
is you talked about Prieto and talk about the the

640
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:06,079
autonomous zones. I've always had this this idea about Spanish

641
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:16,039
history that one of the main reasons why you having

642
00:45:16,079 --> 00:45:20,280
autonomous zones and not centralizing power always just seem like

643
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,599
a really bad idea and make it easy for subversives

644
00:45:24,639 --> 00:45:28,519
to go to go in there, easy for subversives to

645
00:45:28,559 --> 00:45:33,039
start working in different areas. And you know, I just

646
00:45:33,159 --> 00:45:38,679
don't after and still you you know, you look at

647
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:41,760
Spain and it's like, Okay, this is still autonomous over here,

648
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:42,840
autonomous over there.

649
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:43,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

650
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I just as much as I would

651
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:51,119
love to see, like, as much as the idea of

652
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,559
decentralization sounds good to me, when I look at someplace

653
00:45:55,719 --> 00:46:00,079
like Spain, I'm just like, they should have centralized the

654
00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:06,119
power there centuries ago, and a lot of this could

655
00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,239
have been avoided. Do you agree with me on that?

656
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,079
Speaker 2: You know, it's I think it's more. I think it's

657
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:19,280
it's complicated because there's this really cool book from the

658
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:25,559
sixties called A Society Organized for War Medieval Spain, and

659
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,760
I think you can I think I had downloaded it

660
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:38,559
for free online. But it's, uh. What it addresses is

661
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:45,760
the fact that medieval Spain, because of the Reconquista, and

662
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,599
and Thomas talked about this a little bit in one

663
00:46:48,639 --> 00:46:51,360
of the episodes that you were you guys were discussing.

664
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,559
Their overall thing was that they it was a it

665
00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:02,239
was a coalition, right of all these different you know,

666
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:08,800
Visigothic lords frankly who were feeding the whole system, got

667
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:14,320
organized into fighting against the Moslems, right and so when

668
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:18,400
when you look at the history of Spain, it's hard

669
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,639
to talk about this topic without putting on your putin

670
00:47:20,679 --> 00:47:23,639
hat and saying, you know, we have to go back

671
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:26,719
to the time before the oceans drank Atlantis and the

672
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,119
rise of the Sons of Arius. Right, it's you have

673
00:47:30,199 --> 00:47:32,360
to go back. And if you look at the settlement

674
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:40,320
of Spain, you'll see essentially that there was a then

675
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:45,480
under it was a bunch of different ethnic groups right

676
00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:52,719
in different areas, and under the Romans and the Romans.

677
00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:56,920
It took some time for the Romans to conquer all

678
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:04,159
of the Iberian peninsula. I here it is. I. I

679
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,239
have some maps that that I've found that are super

680
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:12,599
interesting about this topic. But essentially what happened was there

681
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:17,679
was this old kind of Carthaginian area along the you know,

682
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:22,840
Mediterranean coast. That was the first area that the Romans

683
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,159
took over, and it was a it was a much

684
00:48:26,199 --> 00:48:34,199
more cohesive kind of frankly slave plantation area without mincing words,

685
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:42,960
the the Romans directed all kinds of Visigothic groups, the Swebbyes,

686
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:46,639
the and brought them in as federati to to govern

687
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,840
Hispania right and also to get them out of the

688
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:56,519
areas where they were causing trouble, so by kind of

689
00:48:56,559 --> 00:49:03,000
the the collapse of you know, the Western Roman Empire.

690
00:49:03,880 --> 00:49:09,280
There there were, uh there was a Swebian region, there

691
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,960
was the Basque region. In the north, there was a

692
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,840
big Visigothic region that there was a huge sweep of

693
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:18,559
like the central part of the country from east from

694
00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:22,159
west to east, and then down in the southern areas

695
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:26,960
which is like Kadiz and Malaga and Cartagena and out

696
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:34,440
into the Balaric islands that remained part of the east

697
00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:39,920
that was controlled by the Eastern Empire. And down in

698
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:47,480
that area there they had the basically slave plantations and

699
00:49:47,519 --> 00:49:50,639
one of the one of the biggest problems, one of

700
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:55,800
the biggest social problems, was that in the north they

701
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,920
they ruled under kind of Germanic legal structure governing theory

702
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:06,840
that was codified in the Fueros, you know, during the

703
00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:13,559
you know, the first millennia AD, which has no bless

704
00:50:13,559 --> 00:50:18,599
oblieves right not down in the far southern areas which

705
00:50:18,639 --> 00:50:21,679
were then conquered by the Moors and stayed under the

706
00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:26,920
Moors for seven hundred almost eight hundred years. In some

707
00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:31,719
places they never had no bless obliege down there, and

708
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:38,159
so you had this huge propaganda issue in the nineteenth

709
00:50:38,199 --> 00:50:42,159
and twentieth century of the landless peasants, you know down

710
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,400
in the southern areas, who were essentially treated as slaves.

711
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:51,440
Let's not kid ourselves. It was not very pleasant for them.

712
00:50:51,559 --> 00:50:55,000
And the thing is, the rest of the country could

713
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:58,480
be traditionalists, like the Carlos could be traditionalists because they

714
00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:02,920
had the old rights and privileges that their lords had

715
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:08,119
going back, you know, fifteen hundred years because and they

716
00:51:08,119 --> 00:51:12,320
could all kind of be semi independent because for conquering

717
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,719
the whole country, you didn't want to alienate your allies.

718
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,679
And if the lord from the northwestern you know, old

719
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:26,920
Swebby provinces, you know, holds his line against the moors

720
00:51:27,079 --> 00:51:32,239
and sends you treasure and troops for your incursions to

721
00:51:32,599 --> 00:51:35,480
you know, move the conquest farther south, you don't really

722
00:51:35,559 --> 00:51:39,880
care that they have these old ways of doing things. So,

723
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,280
you know, it did shift a little bit over time,

724
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:47,239
but you had these different traditions and they didn't really

725
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,199
care as long as they were accomplishing their main goal.

726
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:53,920
Like the central government, well even before they had a

727
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:58,639
full central government under you know, oh my brain is

728
00:51:58,679 --> 00:52:07,320
blanking out right, now, what's her name? Fourteen ninety two people,

729
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:09,719
you know what I'm talking about my brain about, thank

730
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:14,360
you very much. They didn't really care, and so there

731
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,960
was a certain level of independence. And then after fourteen

732
00:52:18,039 --> 00:52:22,079
ninety two they kick the moors out, they start going overseas,

733
00:52:23,599 --> 00:52:28,159
they start spreading, and because of you know, the nature

734
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,519
of who they you know, the royal family married into

735
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,119
and the various holdings that they had, they had people

736
00:52:37,159 --> 00:52:40,559
all over the whole world. They were very influential in Europe.

737
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:43,800
So you have this heat sink at this point where

738
00:52:44,119 --> 00:52:48,360
you're not too worried about public uprisings in Spain for

739
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:52,119
a couple hundred years. If people have issues, they can

740
00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:55,880
go overseas. So it's this big heat sink where people

741
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,360
can raise themselves up. You don't really worry about social

742
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:04,880
problems so much because you can just send people to

743
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:08,400
the New World. They can engage in wars in Europe,

744
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:14,400
they can go to Asia. There's all kinds of outlets

745
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:17,960
for these sorts of things, and tell the empire collapses.

746
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,000
And then when the empire collapses, to your point, you

747
00:53:22,119 --> 00:53:26,639
have this precedent that everyone really likes, right that you know,

748
00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:29,280
they like to have their own independence and their own

749
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:32,360
way of doing things, and you don't have a tradition

750
00:53:32,639 --> 00:53:35,559
of anything else, so that when you go to the

751
00:53:35,599 --> 00:53:40,360
nobles and you try to, you know, impose a little

752
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:43,480
bit of some restrictions on them, they fall back on

753
00:53:43,519 --> 00:53:46,079
tradition and say that there's no precedent for that, and

754
00:53:46,159 --> 00:53:50,000
I've always been loyal and et cetera. You know, you

755
00:53:50,039 --> 00:53:55,000
get to the nineteenth century and the central government is

756
00:53:55,440 --> 00:54:00,639
becomes liberal, right that you have that whole s Session

757
00:54:01,079 --> 00:54:08,039
crisis because of the fact that they put Queen Isabella

758
00:54:08,119 --> 00:54:13,719
on the throne instead of Infante Carlos, and the people

759
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:18,199
who had supported Infante Carlos did it because they were traditionalists.

760
00:54:18,679 --> 00:54:22,920
They see France next door and they say, if we liberalize,

761
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,119
if we move towards atheism, if we move away from

762
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,800
like the system we have, our heads are on the

763
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:34,360
chopping block. They're destroying our religion. They're slaughtering anyone who

764
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,599
goes against them. So of course they're going to have

765
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:42,559
uprisings against the central government. It's one of those things

766
00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:46,239
where you know, when you look at what would have

767
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:51,039
been better, the problem is, as you go back, you

768
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:54,119
understand how it arrived at that point and almost how

769
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:59,760
it would have been impossible, or it makes sense why

770
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:02,599
why it ended up that way, and it almost to

771
00:55:02,679 --> 00:55:06,519
me almost seems like an inevitability, like Spain becoming a

772
00:55:06,559 --> 00:55:13,440
disaster makes sense to me because of the nature of

773
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:18,039
what was going on, Like look at America, there's been

774
00:55:18,079 --> 00:55:23,400
no attention paid to domestic the domestic situation. You know,

775
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,719
they'll talk about a little bit in political campaigns, but

776
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:31,199
it's to their like client groups, right and mass immigration,

777
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,800
et cetera. So they they just undermine, you know, the

778
00:55:37,199 --> 00:55:40,320
the native stock to the point where they have no

779
00:55:40,519 --> 00:55:43,840
standing with us anymore. They can't get us to do anything.

780
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,360
Even if they, you know, decide that they're going to

781
00:55:47,360 --> 00:55:50,400
allow Trump to be president, to have a big digression

782
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,800
in this conversation, that's not going to change people's minds.

783
00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:55,320
He's not going to be able to be like, oh, yeah,

784
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,599
we're gonna have a war and it's going to be great. Like,

785
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,039
I just don't think that's going to happen. For the

786
00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:02,760
people that are the target demographic for that kind of

787
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:07,039
a talk, you know, in their teens and twenties. It's

788
00:56:07,079 --> 00:56:10,639
just it's just not going to happen. Even even if

789
00:56:10,679 --> 00:56:13,079
on paper it would make sense to do it and

790
00:56:13,119 --> 00:56:15,719
it would have been better to do it, It's easy

791
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,760
to understand the easiest choice is always the path of

792
00:56:20,039 --> 00:56:22,679
least resistance at any given point in time, right.

793
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's it's something I think about

794
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:34,800
because in settying this, you know, I really go back

795
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:38,719
all the way to to seven eleven and just see

796
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:41,760
the progression and see how things work. Oh yeah, then

797
00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:45,039
you have you have the Golden Age. Golden Ages are

798
00:56:45,079 --> 00:56:47,440
going to end, and you know they're going to end,

799
00:56:47,559 --> 00:56:49,599
So what do you do? How do you set it up?

800
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:53,440
Everything seems to be working perfectly fun. They get rid

801
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,639
of the Inquisition. As soon as they get rid of

802
00:56:55,639 --> 00:56:58,159
the Inquisition, you have three you have the three Carlist

803
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,960
wars almost in a row, and it's it just built

804
00:57:02,199 --> 00:57:04,679
and built up to it and built up to it,

805
00:57:05,199 --> 00:57:09,039
and it's just yeah. You try to look and you're like, okay,

806
00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:10,920
so what could they have done? I don't know if

807
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,239
there's anything they could have done, because it just it

808
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,360
seemed like an inevitability, especially when like in eighteen sixty eight,

809
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:23,280
Finelle shows up, you know, bringing Bakunin, and yeah, bringing

810
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,920
Bacon and Bacuon and Marxism with him, and you know

811
00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:35,199
it and Andalucia, see, you know, just open arms, just

812
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:40,320
adopts absolutely, you're just like, okay, well, we know what's

813
00:57:40,360 --> 00:57:44,039
going to happen, and within what from sixty eight you're

814
00:57:44,039 --> 00:57:47,840
looking at there's a sixty years.

815
00:57:47,679 --> 00:57:52,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Astorias, Like Astorias, the Austorian miners were some

816
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,119
of the best paid people, you know, who were non nobles, right,

817
00:57:56,599 --> 00:57:59,679
there were some of the best paid working people in

818
00:58:00,039 --> 00:58:08,199
Europe for quite a long time. And they completely embraced anarchism.

819
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:13,800
They were the most feared sappers and forces in general

820
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,840
in the on the Republican side in the Civil War

821
00:58:17,199 --> 00:58:21,119
because they understood explosives and tunneling and everything like that.

822
00:58:21,360 --> 00:58:26,280
They were organized and they would organize to accomplish things.

823
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:30,559
And they had just they had shed religion and gone

824
00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:36,280
all in on this seething anarchism in the nineteenth century.

825
00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:39,760
And they just kept at it and kept at it

826
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:43,440
and kept at it. And that's where that nineteen thirty

827
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,239
was it thirty two? Was the failed uprising there? Or

828
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,519
was it thirty four? I'm trying to remember. I think

829
00:58:48,519 --> 00:58:50,880
it might have been thirty four. But or there were

830
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:56,199
multiple ones. Actually, yeah, just just it plants the seeds

831
00:58:56,519 --> 00:59:01,719
and they go bananas. It's another element is like in

832
00:59:01,719 --> 00:59:07,760
in Basque Country, the people in the countryside and the

833
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,440
small towns were in the wealthier people of course, we're

834
00:59:12,519 --> 00:59:15,199
going to be more conservative, and there was a huge

835
00:59:15,199 --> 00:59:19,440
amount like that. The big push for anarchists and socialists

836
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:23,400
in Basque Country were from people who emigrated from other

837
00:59:23,559 --> 00:59:26,960
provinces into the cities to work in the cities, to

838
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,840
work in industry. Because people say, you know that Spain

839
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,960
never industrialized, and it's like, no, they were. They just

840
00:59:34,039 --> 00:59:39,079
industrialized in pockets like Barcelona and coastal Catalonia had a

841
00:59:39,079 --> 00:59:42,960
fair bit of industry, and up in the Basque Country

842
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,840
there was a great deal and then Austurias there was

843
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:47,599
a lot because of the mines up there and the

844
00:59:47,679 --> 00:59:52,760
in the iron works in Oviedo and Guiehone. Yeah, it's

845
00:59:53,039 --> 00:59:55,000
it's one of these things where you see that, you

846
00:59:55,079 --> 00:59:57,760
see the patterns that show up elsewhere.

847
00:59:58,599 --> 01:00:02,079
Speaker 3: And it's it's just so tough because it's kind of

848
01:00:02,679 --> 01:00:07,800
they had to go through it themselves, just like everyone else,

849
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,519
and sometimes you just end up in a situation where

850
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:15,079
this it just explodes because of the it was.

851
01:00:16,679 --> 01:00:22,079
Speaker 2: Just unreconcilable at a certain point. There's this great I

852
01:00:22,119 --> 01:00:25,400
can't remember what book I read it in, but there

853
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:30,119
was a great observation by a guy after the war

854
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,360
who he was either on a train or a tram,

855
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:37,840
or he was a tram conductor, I can't remember. And

856
01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:43,239
he said that it was springtime in like nineteen thirty five,

857
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,920
and he said, this absolutely beautiful, like twenty year old

858
01:00:49,519 --> 01:00:53,239
upper middle class gal gets on the tram and he

859
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:57,320
said she was just drapp jaw droppingly beautiful. And this

860
01:00:57,519 --> 01:01:01,280
worker sitting next to him was just seeing looking at

861
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:05,679
her as saying that disgusting, rich pig. And he said,

862
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:10,519
if a guy cannot like just sit back and appreciate,

863
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,239
you know, a beautiful woman like that, it means you

864
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:18,599
have major, major social problems.

865
01:01:19,199 --> 01:01:23,239
Speaker 1: Well, you know, people don't want to hear this because

866
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:30,000
you know, people in Europe knew what these communists did

867
01:01:30,159 --> 01:01:35,039
during the Spanish Civil War, yep. People in Europe knew

868
01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:39,280
about the Red Terror, knew what was going on there,

869
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:43,119
knew that Germans were being killed, a Latvians were being killed,

870
01:01:43,119 --> 01:01:46,119
that Poles were being killed by the tens of thousands.

871
01:01:47,239 --> 01:01:49,320
They knew this was happening. When I say, people, I'm

872
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:53,639
talking about leadership. Yeah, yes, How do you react to that?

873
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:57,320
How do you react? You know, how do you react

874
01:01:57,360 --> 01:02:00,280
to that when you know it's coming for you? What

875
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:03,639
do you do? What do you what do you do?

876
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,320
Speaker 2: Well? The you know, conservative elements within the army had

877
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:16,159
been organizing for a long time since before the establishment

878
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:22,719
of the the Republic, because there had been coups, quite

879
01:02:22,719 --> 01:02:25,320
a few coups in Spanish history, as you know, nineteenth

880
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:32,920
century was just like war coup, war coup and military dictatorship,

881
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:39,400
you know, in the twenties, you know, Primo Primo de

882
01:02:39,519 --> 01:02:44,039
Rivera is essentially appointed dictator with the blessing of the

883
01:02:44,159 --> 01:02:49,119
king because the you know, the Cortesse and everything are

884
01:02:49,199 --> 01:02:52,599
just a disaster, just they just needed. There was street

885
01:02:52,639 --> 01:02:57,119
fighting all the time between socialists, anarchists, and especially the Flange,

886
01:02:57,320 --> 01:03:00,239
but also the Carlists and a lot of these kind

887
01:03:00,280 --> 01:03:05,320
of like Carlist youth groups ended up serving as essentially

888
01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:12,320
self defense forces for you know, Catholic traditionalist events. They

889
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:18,400
would be patrolling the areas around you know, traditionalist events

890
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,719
to protect them from attacks from anarchists and communists. Sounds

891
01:03:21,719 --> 01:03:28,480
familiar and the in the I forget exactly. But as

892
01:03:28,519 --> 01:03:33,119
soon as the republic became a thing, which is kind

893
01:03:33,119 --> 01:03:36,360
of it's pretty illegitimate, the way that it was arrived

894
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:41,159
at essentially there there was there were local elections where

895
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:45,119
that it was framed as a mandate in the press

896
01:03:45,159 --> 01:03:49,360
for the establishment of a republican the tossing out of

897
01:03:49,840 --> 01:03:53,280
the old system, and so it just kind of happened,

898
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:57,440
and it and there's there's sort of a parallel when

899
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,960
you look at what happened in Russia, where people just

900
01:04:00,079 --> 01:04:04,880
lost confidence in the old system and so they waited

901
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,719
too long before the White Army like asserted itself again.

902
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:14,280
The advances of the Reds were massive because a lot

903
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,679
of people kind of bought the propaganda that they were

904
01:04:16,719 --> 01:04:19,679
going against the failure of the old system instead of

905
01:04:19,719 --> 01:04:24,079
it actually having a very clear goal. Right when you

906
01:04:24,280 --> 01:04:27,760
look at the memoirs of the people in the republic,

907
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:32,639
the people in most of the political parties they didn't

908
01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:36,440
believe in a republic. The Conservatives certainly did not, the

909
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:43,840
Traditionalist Commune or however you want to translate it, the

910
01:04:44,599 --> 01:04:48,639
Carlist political party and parties, because there were a bunch

911
01:04:48,719 --> 01:04:52,239
that kind of fell under that bucket. They never ever

912
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:58,480
communion Traditionalista, They never ever believed in the Republic because

913
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:01,119
they felt that it was a race to the bottom.

914
01:05:01,320 --> 01:05:06,960
Right like most people's opinions, they don't belong in determining

915
01:05:06,960 --> 01:05:09,559
how you how you govern, and you can be manipulated

916
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:14,199
too easily, and so they only ever like in their

917
01:05:14,239 --> 01:05:19,599
own language in terms is they always say, oh, well,

918
01:05:21,119 --> 01:05:26,559
we're participating in parliament as a means of political mobilization

919
01:05:27,239 --> 01:05:32,000
and to maintain momentum and visibility and to organize ourselves,

920
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:35,320
to prepare ourselves for when there's going to be violence,

921
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:39,519
whether we start it or someone else starts it. That

922
01:05:40,079 --> 01:05:43,679
the Carlis. There was a Carlist politician who said, the

923
01:05:43,760 --> 01:05:47,239
principal Carlos tool when striving for political power has always

924
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:51,199
been a rifle and not a ballot paper. And it's just,

925
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,159
you know, it's just charming with with how direct it is.

926
01:05:54,559 --> 01:05:58,079
But the socialists and communists that talk about the republic,

927
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:03,599
they were insane. They were bloodthirsty lunatics, and it shows

928
01:06:03,639 --> 01:06:08,039
through and everything. And like you said, the leadership of

929
01:06:08,079 --> 01:06:11,840
Europe knew what was going on. And for quite a while,

930
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:15,000
like the very beginning of the War especially, that was

931
01:06:15,039 --> 01:06:17,519
the message even in the American press. I mean, there was,

932
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:20,920
of course, you know, there was a big sea change

933
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:24,639
as we went into World War two, and and you know,

934
01:06:24,960 --> 01:06:29,440
essentially what happened there where a huge falling away of

935
01:06:29,559 --> 01:06:35,000
kind of traditionalist right wing viewpoints because of just the

936
01:06:35,119 --> 01:06:38,639
nature of the coup that happened during World War two

937
01:06:38,679 --> 01:06:43,719
and the quiet overthrow. But there was a lot of

938
01:06:44,159 --> 01:06:47,760
very canid talk about what was going on there. And

939
01:06:48,639 --> 01:06:52,599
even you know, the British government knew that they were

940
01:06:52,599 --> 01:06:59,639
better off working with the nationalists than the republic, although

941
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:05,280
they would later use you know, the whole Hitler thing,

942
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:09,000
you know, to their advantage when talking about, you know,

943
01:07:09,039 --> 01:07:14,760
and negotiating with Spain for their own purposes. But yeah,

944
01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:18,360
it was absolutely people, plenty of people knew what was

945
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:23,280
going to happen. There was no scenario where had they won,

946
01:07:23,599 --> 01:07:27,199
it wouldn't have been Russia all over again and establishing

947
01:07:27,400 --> 01:07:31,679
a strong foothold in Western Europe. And might I add,

948
01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:36,000
might I add that at the time of the Civil War,

949
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:42,079
the French government was under Bloom and his Socialists, and

950
01:07:42,159 --> 01:07:47,039
they too achieved their electoral quote unquote victory by using

951
01:07:47,079 --> 01:07:52,119
the Popular Front model, which is exactly what the so

952
01:07:52,159 --> 01:07:59,239
called Republicans did in thirty six early thirty six before

953
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:03,239
they went nuts and just started, you know, rounding up

954
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:07,199
politicians and having government officials execute them and stuff like that,

955
01:08:07,639 --> 01:08:12,239
which caused you know, the jump off of the of

956
01:08:12,280 --> 01:08:14,039
the army revolt to happen.

957
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:19,560
Speaker 1: Well, let's cut it right there, and I invite you

958
01:08:19,600 --> 01:08:23,039
to come back anytime. Let's continue this conversation because this

959
01:08:23,199 --> 01:08:27,880
needs to go on. This is am I wrong in

960
01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:32,399
saying that what we see happening in the United States

961
01:08:32,439 --> 01:08:38,279
could be, especially in certain regions, would be closer to

962
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,399
the Spanish Civil War than anything else.

963
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:44,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you with that. I know that

964
01:08:44,119 --> 01:08:48,920
Matt Bracken, who who I respect, has has said Yugoslavia

965
01:08:49,000 --> 01:08:55,720
times Rwanda, but and there's a lot to say about that,

966
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,800
but I honestly think that the Spanish Civil War model

967
01:08:59,239 --> 01:09:04,319
is closest to it. And again, uh, everything that I

968
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:08,840
write an article about either on my substack or that's

969
01:09:08,840 --> 01:09:12,600
in the appendix of the book, and any story that

970
01:09:12,760 --> 01:09:17,520
happens in the book, you know, even though it's a

971
01:09:17,600 --> 01:09:21,199
fictional a fictional telling in a real setting, is there

972
01:09:21,319 --> 01:09:24,439
for a reason. And that main reason is. I think

973
01:09:24,439 --> 01:09:26,479
that this is coming and we have to be ready

974
01:09:26,520 --> 01:09:30,640
for it, and we have to stop fooling ourselves because

975
01:09:30,840 --> 01:09:35,600
I honestly think that this is happening sooner rather than later.

976
01:09:37,239 --> 01:09:40,479
Speaker 1: Well that's a good warning, all right. Tell everybody where

977
01:09:40,520 --> 01:09:43,079
they can get the book. You got your substack and everything,

978
01:09:43,159 --> 01:09:44,840
and we'll end this great.

979
01:09:46,359 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 2: Faction with the Crusaders. Available at Amazon. You can check

980
01:09:51,920 --> 01:09:56,600
out my substack at Carl Doll k A R L

981
01:09:56,920 --> 01:10:02,960
D A h L dot substack dot com. I sell

982
01:10:03,039 --> 01:10:06,079
silly t shirts like I have a Franco Franco Franco

983
01:10:06,239 --> 01:10:09,159
t shirt on there that I just dropped last week.

984
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:13,800
Trying to do some more cheeky stuff, but it keeps

985
01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:18,479
getting banned by producers, so trying to work through that,

986
01:10:18,600 --> 01:10:24,920
but thus far, Franco Franco Franco's staying up. I'm on Twitter.

987
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:28,560
I do a very bad job of engaging with Twitter

988
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:33,079
because frankly, I don't like Twitter. Tired of shadow banning

989
01:10:33,119 --> 01:10:33,760
and stuff like that.

990
01:10:33,800 --> 01:10:35,479
Speaker 1: But nobody likes Twitter.

991
01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you look for Carl Doll there, I won't

992
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,600
give you the name because I had cowdo doll and

993
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:46,960
then it got scrambled by Twitter's account name setup, so

994
01:10:47,079 --> 01:10:48,720
just look for me there also.

995
01:10:50,159 --> 01:10:52,159
Speaker 1: All right, Carl, I'll talk to you against soim.

996
01:10:52,199 --> 01:10:54,439
Speaker 2: Thank you, all right, thanks a lot.

997
01:10:55,319 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Pecingana show.

998
01:10:58,399 --> 01:11:00,800
He is back and we're gonna talk about the Spanish

999
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:03,119
Civil War. Carl Dahl, you don't.

1000
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 2: Call doing well, Pete. Thanks?

1001
01:11:04,760 --> 01:11:08,239
Speaker 1: How are you doing doing good? Man? You reached out,

1002
01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:12,359
you said, I even have materials to share with people

1003
01:11:12,960 --> 01:11:16,000
talking about the I guess we talked the last time,

1004
01:11:16,039 --> 01:11:18,640
and I guess one of the biggest points you tried

1005
01:11:18,680 --> 01:11:22,720
to make was that this is what was happening before

1006
01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,960
the war closely resembles the kind of tensions, the kind

1007
01:11:27,039 --> 01:11:30,680
of situation we have now. And then you said, well,

1008
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:35,119
maybe it's a good idea to talk about how how

1009
01:11:35,159 --> 01:11:39,479
the right factions came together, because just as in this country,

1010
01:11:40,319 --> 01:11:44,239
right factions are split, some hate each other. You know,

1011
01:11:44,399 --> 01:11:46,960
I have that. I have. People are quoting me now

1012
01:11:47,039 --> 01:11:51,640
saying the left gets their radicals elected, the right gets

1013
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:57,399
the the right cancels their radicals. Yeah. So yeah, where

1014
01:11:57,399 --> 01:11:58,359
do you want to start?

1015
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,960
Speaker 2: You know, I think we can take it from the

1016
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,479
top with my little slideshow, so it's not just a

1017
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:11,479
little speech, Thank you, sir. Yeah, just to reiterate, I

1018
01:12:11,560 --> 01:12:13,319
have a lot of material that I'm going to be

1019
01:12:13,399 --> 01:12:15,880
talking about a referring to out of my substack, which

1020
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,479
is Carldall dot substack dot com. You can see me

1021
01:12:19,560 --> 01:12:23,520
on Twitter. Also, I have two books that are published.

1022
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,600
One is Faction, which is adventure story in the nineties

1023
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:32,760
that pertains to the prequel which I released this year,

1024
01:12:32,760 --> 01:12:36,840
which is Faction with the Crusaders, where the elder statesman

1025
01:12:37,119 --> 01:12:41,800
of the Shay family gets involved in the espionage business

1026
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:50,079
during the Spanish Civil War. So the you know, I

1027
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:52,600
was working in my elevator pitch for why we talk

1028
01:12:52,640 --> 01:12:55,880
about the Spanish Civil War, right, and you already alluded

1029
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:59,880
to a couple of these details here. One is that

1030
01:13:00,039 --> 01:13:02,920
it's the conflict you know. Again, as they say, history

1031
01:13:03,319 --> 01:13:06,640
doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes. It rhymes the

1032
01:13:06,680 --> 01:13:09,319
closest I think to what we're likely to face here

1033
01:13:09,319 --> 01:13:14,119
in the United States. I'm also fond of Matt Brackens

1034
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:20,399
Yugoslavia Times Rwanda. Although external intervention is a big detail there.

1035
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,520
It's a big detail in the Spanish Civil War, but

1036
01:13:23,479 --> 01:13:26,079
I think in terms of the way things play out,

1037
01:13:26,119 --> 01:13:29,840
it's pretty similar, and let's be honest, one of the reasons,

1038
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,960
one of the key reasons why it's the Spanish Civil

1039
01:13:34,039 --> 01:13:36,840
War and not, for example, the Bolshevik Revolution. And it

1040
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,960
could be wishful thinking, but I don't think that that's

1041
01:13:41,000 --> 01:13:46,560
the case. I believe pretty strongly in you know, a

1042
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:52,880
lot of the population here acting and reacting instead of

1043
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:57,920
just passively watching the communists get all the you know,

1044
01:13:58,079 --> 01:13:59,600
get get the ball rolling.

1045
01:14:00,720 --> 01:14:00,920
Speaker 1: You know.

1046
01:14:01,000 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 2: In the Bolshevik Revolution, the one of the biggest problems

1047
01:14:05,159 --> 01:14:11,119
was that the establishment were so much like the Gope

1048
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:14,840
in terms of like just letting everything happen, and they

1049
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:18,960
were completely just controlled opposition. That was absolutely not the

1050
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:21,199
case in the in the lead up to the Spanish

1051
01:14:21,199 --> 01:14:24,560
Civil War. And we'll talk in detailed fashion about that

1052
01:14:24,640 --> 01:14:27,680
here in just a minute, and the final point being,

1053
01:14:27,720 --> 01:14:30,600
you know, we've heard the death rattle of the myth

1054
01:14:30,640 --> 01:14:36,520
of the twentieth century deliberate you know, illusion there. But

1055
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,399
the lesser known battles of the Inner War period are

1056
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:45,600
back on the table for study. People have not studied

1057
01:14:45,640 --> 01:14:52,319
the Spanish Civil War in English hardly at all. They

1058
01:14:52,359 --> 01:14:57,960
typically have like a very basic meme level understanding of it.

1059
01:14:58,279 --> 01:15:02,000
You know, the English I've talked about incessantly. You've talked

1060
01:15:02,039 --> 01:15:05,640
about it, Thomas has talked about it. The English language material.

1061
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,119
There aren't that many good sources for it, but there

1062
01:15:10,159 --> 01:15:13,439
are good sources, and we want to point you guys

1063
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:19,079
towards that. So when we talk about why the Spanish

1064
01:15:19,119 --> 01:15:23,279
Civil War in the United States, you know, stuff happening

1065
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:31,000
rhymes or could rhyme what those parallels are. So in

1066
01:15:31,079 --> 01:15:37,600
Spain the empire collapsed. America we're still, you know, in

1067
01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,600
that kind of height of empire as things are crumbling

1068
01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:47,960
around us, right, So like that the empire is seems invincible,

1069
01:15:48,119 --> 01:15:52,000
or has seemed invincible, but the cracks are everywhere. And

1070
01:15:52,039 --> 01:15:55,039
in fact, I would say the past two years we've

1071
01:15:55,079 --> 01:15:59,079
seen the cracks more than to the point that it's undeniable,

1072
01:15:59,159 --> 01:16:03,399
especially when you overseas. People were really really worried in

1073
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:08,000
twenty twenty, like we're in this like invincible empire, our

1074
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:11,920
enemies are implacable. We're going to have to, you know,

1075
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:16,279
just go underground. You know, every fight is generational. You know,

1076
01:16:16,359 --> 01:16:24,439
there's there's no final victory except in christ but politically

1077
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:28,439
in the world, there's no final victory. It's a constant effort,

1078
01:16:30,279 --> 01:16:34,840
but I think we're seeing that the empire is much weaker,

1079
01:16:35,439 --> 01:16:39,399
and in fact, the consensus has broken. I think you've

1080
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,600
talked about it a lot twenty twenty twenty twenty one.

1081
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:49,800
A huge percentage of the population sees our system as

1082
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:54,800
completely illegitimate at this point, So I have this bullet

1083
01:16:54,800 --> 01:16:59,039
point down below, delegitimize political systems. We'll talk about the

1084
01:16:59,079 --> 01:17:02,920
Spanish experience here in a few minutes, because it's different.

1085
01:17:03,039 --> 01:17:09,199
It's different than ours, but it relates to the deep

1086
01:17:09,239 --> 01:17:13,239
divisions inherent to the population, which we'll touch on shortly,

1087
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:16,199
and we've talked about extensively. Like one of your key

1088
01:17:16,239 --> 01:17:21,600
points is Spain was so decentralized, and it was just

1089
01:17:21,680 --> 01:17:25,720
because of the nature of what was needed during the

1090
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,199
Reconquista and then post Reconquista, that was the tradition. You know,

1091
01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,119
the easiest thing to do is to do nothing. There

1092
01:17:34,199 --> 01:17:38,199
was there were attempts at centralization in the nineteenth century

1093
01:17:38,239 --> 01:17:44,760
that were really more clashes between liberalism and tradition than

1094
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:49,439
a centralization of people who were on common ground. So

1095
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:54,760
you know, the centralization based on common ground is a

1096
01:17:54,800 --> 01:17:58,880
big struggle. But we will talk about that in more

1097
01:17:58,960 --> 01:18:01,359
detail here. Shortly, because that's a really important thing to

1098
01:18:01,479 --> 01:18:05,600
understand about how the Spanish dealt with it, because again

1099
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:07,560
that's the main thing I want to talk about here,

1100
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:14,239
the Spanish right united constantly at every turn, and I

1101
01:18:14,239 --> 01:18:17,119
think we'll see some very clear parallels. I will be

1102
01:18:17,279 --> 01:18:20,680
specific about parallels in observations that I have about like

1103
01:18:21,159 --> 01:18:25,960
current discourse as it relates to that. You know, Pete

1104
01:18:26,000 --> 01:18:29,800
hop in it at any time to share your thoughts

1105
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:35,159
on that as well. And then finally, a tradition of violence, yes, sir, yeah, I.

1106
01:18:35,079 --> 01:18:39,279
Speaker 1: Think it's interesting that Paul Fahrenheit and I are doing

1107
01:18:39,319 --> 01:18:43,359
a a Spain Golden Asi of Spain, and we were

1108
01:18:43,399 --> 01:18:45,840
recording last night, and is one of the things that

1109
01:18:45,840 --> 01:18:51,199
we brought up last night was that the decentralized nature

1110
01:18:51,239 --> 01:18:57,039
of Spain during the Reconquista, it was almost necessary because

1111
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,399
then you could build up in areas and then you

1112
01:19:01,439 --> 01:19:04,279
can come together finally, and really it was only really

1113
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:07,920
Castile and Aragon that came together to do it. But

1114
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:12,119
then after the Golden Age, after everything starts to fall

1115
01:19:12,159 --> 01:19:15,520
apart in the late sixteen hundreds, then you have the

1116
01:19:15,560 --> 01:19:20,920
divisions again, and you have the autonomous zones. And I've

1117
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:24,680
come to the conclusion that the only way that Spain

1118
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,960
can survive as the Catholic nation it's supposed to be

1119
01:19:28,159 --> 01:19:32,880
as an imperium, it can't be these autonomous areas.

1120
01:19:33,079 --> 01:19:39,840
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, absolutely. And I you know, one of the

1121
01:19:39,840 --> 01:19:42,880
big themes in America that we talk about and you,

1122
01:19:43,039 --> 01:19:45,479
I mean I heard you talking about it yesterday when

1123
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:48,600
I was listening to Oh gosh, it's been so many

1124
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:54,800
episodes lately, is there's the decentralization, there's the independence movements,

1125
01:19:56,439 --> 01:20:01,680
there's or just kind of a soft breaking away, you know,

1126
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:05,840
if the if the state is weakened, or if the

1127
01:20:05,880 --> 01:20:10,439
state is hostile to you, you create parallel institutions and

1128
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,159
so that's how you deal with it. We will talk

1129
01:20:13,199 --> 01:20:17,640
about that here as well. And because the Spanish did

1130
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:22,159
exactly that. And again this is about not just a

1131
01:20:22,399 --> 01:20:26,159
historical a thing of historical interest. We all love history,

1132
01:20:26,279 --> 01:20:29,680
but we are talking about history because it's so relevant

1133
01:20:30,239 --> 01:20:35,000
to our current experience. Whether it's in America, it's in

1134
01:20:35,039 --> 01:20:39,399
the UK, it's an Ireland. You know, our cousins are

1135
01:20:39,479 --> 01:20:43,960
are fighting it out. And I will have some editorials

1136
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:49,560
about the not very accurate observations people are making about

1137
01:20:49,560 --> 01:20:53,279
what's going on over there and its implications. So the

1138
01:20:53,319 --> 01:20:56,439
final point, you know, talking about violence, is that Spain

1139
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,119
and the US have they're founded on ruggle and conquest.

1140
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:12,279
The the niceties of political debate, there's there's I would say,

1141
01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:14,840
for example, if you if you were to talk about

1142
01:21:14,880 --> 01:21:18,760
the Netherlands right now, the people and this isn't an

1143
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,720
insult and it could be inaccurate. This is me observing

1144
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:27,680
as a dumb American who's been there. But the Netherlands

1145
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:31,239
is a nice country based on you know that that

1146
01:21:31,600 --> 01:21:38,520
has a very vibrant military history, but there's a cooperative,

1147
01:21:38,720 --> 01:21:43,600
monocultural element to it that makes it a little less

1148
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:48,800
inherently dedicated to you know, violence. That's not the case

1149
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,640
with America, that's not the case with Spain. Things are

1150
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:56,680
more likely to go hot in places that don't have

1151
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,560
hundreds of years of peace, like the UK. For example,

1152
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:04,119
there was a battle fought on the British Isles for

1153
01:22:04,319 --> 01:22:08,079
hundreds of years. If you really think about it, it's

1154
01:22:08,119 --> 01:22:10,720
been a very very long time since there were actual

1155
01:22:11,239 --> 01:22:14,520
battles fought there. And you can talk about you know,

1156
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,439
the IRA doing bombings in London and stuff like that.

1157
01:22:17,600 --> 01:22:21,279
I think that's a little different it's still important to

1158
01:22:21,359 --> 01:22:24,720
think about. But that's a big thing in America is

1159
01:22:24,760 --> 01:22:27,680
that we had a civil war war not that long ago.

1160
01:22:28,439 --> 01:22:32,159
Are you know, anything that happens now is going to

1161
01:22:32,159 --> 01:22:37,600
be different than that. But we also have you know,

1162
01:22:38,000 --> 01:22:43,600
we're filled with veterans of the global War on terror, Vietnam,

1163
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:48,079
et cetera, and so and as well as just general

1164
01:22:48,159 --> 01:22:51,399
crime has been at the point where there's a huge

1165
01:22:51,439 --> 01:22:56,239
percentage of the population that is just completely assuming that

1166
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:59,399
they're probably going to have to kill people to survive,

1167
01:22:59,560 --> 01:23:03,079
especially now as things are ramping up, So very very

1168
01:23:03,079 --> 01:23:08,199
important to understand. So again we're here to talk about

1169
01:23:08,319 --> 01:23:12,079
three keys to the Spanish Rite's success. This is a

1170
01:23:12,079 --> 01:23:15,359
big one and it's really important. And I think a

1171
01:23:15,399 --> 01:23:17,800
lot of people when they talk about getting red pilled

1172
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,920
is you have to understand your situation and you have

1173
01:23:21,960 --> 01:23:25,319
to become resolved to how to deal with it. We

1174
01:23:25,399 --> 01:23:27,239
talk about the red pill, and we talk about the

1175
01:23:27,279 --> 01:23:32,840
black pill. We don't want people black pilling. My opinion,

1176
01:23:33,439 --> 01:23:35,520
having gone through it, is that you have to get

1177
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:39,520
black pilled on the current system and then come through it,

1178
01:23:39,640 --> 01:23:42,039
kind of like the Litany against Fear. You have to

1179
01:23:42,119 --> 01:23:46,960
emerge from the fear and the black pill to be like, Okay,

1180
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,880
what are the ramifications of the situation. And then there's

1181
01:23:50,920 --> 01:23:55,119
people who just dwell in the hopelessness, nothing ever happens,

1182
01:23:55,279 --> 01:23:59,439
et cetera. Other people are like, well, actually, now that

1183
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:03,920
I understand the situation that we're all in, what do

1184
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:07,399
I have to do in my life to make my

1185
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:11,640
situation better? And then build on top of that. And

1186
01:24:11,680 --> 01:24:15,560
you have to start at your house and your household

1187
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:17,920
before you can go to your street, before you can

1188
01:24:17,960 --> 01:24:20,159
go to your neighborhood, before you can go to your

1189
01:24:20,199 --> 01:24:25,000
town or city or county and go up from there.

1190
01:24:25,159 --> 01:24:27,720
So you have to understand your situation and then you

1191
01:24:27,760 --> 01:24:30,520
have to be resolved to deal with it. And the

1192
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:34,439
Spanish Right was always ready for that because they were

1193
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:39,039
anti Republican. We'll talk more about that shortly. They were

1194
01:24:39,039 --> 01:24:42,840
opposed to the system that was being forced on them.

1195
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,159
They prepared for war with the same degree of commitment

1196
01:24:47,239 --> 01:24:51,720
and effort as the left did. This is different than

1197
01:24:52,119 --> 01:24:56,359
individuals having lots of guns. Individuals are and their own

1198
01:24:56,399 --> 01:25:01,640
guns are important, but it's less important than a massive

1199
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:07,000
individuals who are friends working together and having guns and

1200
01:25:07,479 --> 01:25:15,319
logistics and a plan and training and discipline and leadership,

1201
01:25:17,119 --> 01:25:20,319
and then finally, which is the key focus here. Although

1202
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:24,680
the above pieces will be talked about pretty extensively, the

1203
01:25:24,800 --> 01:25:30,239
Spanish right set aside their factional differences before the war

1204
01:25:30,279 --> 01:25:33,239
had even begun, and unified at every turn. I started

1205
01:25:33,239 --> 01:25:37,960
to say, the Spanish left, the Spanish left was fragmenting

1206
01:25:38,079 --> 01:25:43,399
pretty much right away between the anarchists and the other groups.

1207
01:25:44,640 --> 01:25:48,760
And then the communists asserted in themselves and became dominant

1208
01:25:49,079 --> 01:25:53,439
and started snuffing out anyone who opposed them. So you

1209
01:25:53,479 --> 01:25:58,520
were always afraid of the people that you were associated

1210
01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:01,479
with on the left, whereas the right that was not

1211
01:26:01,720 --> 01:26:06,359
literally not a problem beyond people who were you know,

1212
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:11,520
huge problems that had to be dealt with. We'll talk

1213
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:12,640
about that here shortly.

1214
01:26:12,800 --> 01:26:16,680
Speaker 1: So, yeah, I hope people get that from the reading

1215
01:26:16,720 --> 01:26:20,199
of Last Crusade that yes, the left, the left was

1216
01:26:21,279 --> 01:26:25,520
they were not unified. The anarchists, the anarchists wouldn't obviously

1217
01:26:25,520 --> 01:26:28,800
want to do their own thing. The communists, the Republicans,

1218
01:26:28,840 --> 01:26:33,239
the ones who were basically statists, I mean, they all

1219
01:26:33,319 --> 01:26:37,880
three of them were constantly constantly in battle against each other.

1220
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:42,640
And yeah, I mean the right they figured it out

1221
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,199
right away. If if we're going to beat this evil,

1222
01:26:45,439 --> 01:26:47,840
we're going to have to come together and just put

1223
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:49,800
all this crap aside.

1224
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:51,920
Speaker 2: And one of the things that makes it a little

1225
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:56,039
challenging in retrospect for people is that these groups seem

1226
01:26:56,119 --> 01:27:01,039
really different. Uh, you know, the the Carlists. It seems

1227
01:27:01,079 --> 01:27:05,600
really weird because there's this whole royal succession argument and

1228
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,159
it seems so quaint and weird to people in the

1229
01:27:09,199 --> 01:27:15,840
current age. That almost doesn't matter. The Carlists, that line

1230
01:27:15,880 --> 01:27:21,800
of the Bourbon's the House of Bourbon. They were the leadership.

1231
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:28,600
They were a symbol for the hardcore traditionalists who preferred

1232
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:34,159
the old deal, which was basically pre medieval about you

1233
01:27:34,279 --> 01:27:38,720
had duties and privileges in this stated charter, and there

1234
01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:44,279
were defined class relations, and the church and the local

1235
01:27:44,399 --> 01:27:48,920
legal system were joined at the hip, and any issues

1236
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:52,720
that you had, you had support from your class, from

1237
01:27:52,720 --> 01:27:58,000
your family, from your community, from the church to negotiate

1238
01:27:58,079 --> 01:28:04,640
these things. Under democracy, you're on your own right. And

1239
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:09,840
again democracy versus republic. It was a republic through which

1240
01:28:09,920 --> 01:28:14,039
democracy was enacted. That whole with opposed to be a republic,

1241
01:28:14,079 --> 01:28:21,600
and the democracy is bullshit, stop all right? Okay, So

1242
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:31,119
key point. This is a image from Navarre in nineteen

1243
01:28:31,159 --> 01:28:35,239
thirty six in Pomplona, which was the heart of the

1244
01:28:35,399 --> 01:28:44,520
Carlist Uprising, an organization. This is a scene where if

1245
01:28:44,520 --> 01:28:47,600
you look closely, and it's going to be hard for

1246
01:28:47,640 --> 01:28:50,199
a lot of people, but if you kind of squint,

1247
01:28:50,520 --> 01:28:52,119
you'll be able to see what I'm talking about. You'll

1248
01:28:52,159 --> 01:28:55,479
notice over here that these guys have flags that appear black.

1249
01:28:55,960 --> 01:28:59,920
These guys have white flags that have a it's a

1250
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:04,439
actually a red bars, kind of like the stars and bars,

1251
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:07,880
but it's just a solid, kind of a jagged red

1252
01:29:08,319 --> 01:29:13,720
that is the Carlist flag of the House of Bourbon Burbon.

1253
01:29:15,239 --> 01:29:24,000
Over here, these are the Falange, the Spanish Phalanx, and

1254
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:29,239
they're typically referred to as fascist. And these guys are

1255
01:29:29,319 --> 01:29:33,920
traditionalist royalists who are also called fascists by the Spanish

1256
01:29:34,039 --> 01:29:38,640
left and lib herds everywhere. And you will notice there

1257
01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,000
aren't that many of these guys, but they're sure are

1258
01:29:41,039 --> 01:29:45,359
a heck of a lot of these guys. They didn't

1259
01:29:45,399 --> 01:29:50,319
care that they were mustering under these separate units. They

1260
01:29:50,640 --> 01:29:57,199
mustered side by side. They were plugged into the military

1261
01:29:57,319 --> 01:30:04,159
uprising and the logistics by the army barracks in Pamplona

1262
01:30:04,720 --> 01:30:08,960
under General Mola. They didn't really care because they had

1263
01:30:09,000 --> 01:30:11,760
all been talking to each other for a while and

1264
01:30:11,800 --> 01:30:15,760
they were fighting the same enemy. So heck, why would

1265
01:30:15,760 --> 01:30:19,119
I care if this guy likes slightly different optics and

1266
01:30:19,199 --> 01:30:27,079
talking points than me. Very key understanding here. They unified.

1267
01:30:27,199 --> 01:30:31,079
They set aside their differences. People make so much of

1268
01:30:31,159 --> 01:30:36,279
their differences, and they unified. Didn't matter. Now, they did

1269
01:30:36,319 --> 01:30:42,439
have some challenges and some struggles for power later, who cares.

1270
01:30:42,880 --> 01:30:51,119
Let's talk about before the war, so this will be

1271
01:30:51,199 --> 01:30:55,680
really familiar to people who especially people who are around

1272
01:30:55,800 --> 01:31:00,520
you know mine and Pete's ages. If you we're ever

1273
01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:04,960
observing anything related to the Irish Republican Army in Shinfin

1274
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:08,760
or however they pronounce it. I'm not Irish, I don't

1275
01:31:08,800 --> 01:31:16,680
speak Gaelic. Every political party when you study this period,

1276
01:31:17,720 --> 01:31:24,279
if they survived, they had multiple elements and structures, and

1277
01:31:24,439 --> 01:31:26,880
I've written some articles about this. I have an article

1278
01:31:26,880 --> 01:31:31,760
about the cnt FAI and their structure and the way

1279
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:35,000
they organize. We'll talk about that a little more detail later.

1280
01:31:35,239 --> 01:31:38,239
But the long story made short is there's an electoral party.

1281
01:31:39,399 --> 01:31:43,520
They have newspapers that are associated with that party or faction.

1282
01:31:44,079 --> 01:31:47,000
There's they're tied into labor unions because again this is

1283
01:31:47,039 --> 01:31:52,800
about organizing and mobilizing people socially and on the ground,

1284
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:59,199
and also that feeds into financing them. There's also student

1285
01:31:59,279 --> 01:32:01,680
and youth organizations and that's where a lot of the

1286
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:06,880
energy comes from these groups. One thing that will be

1287
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:12,199
very interesting is anyone who was in Boy Scouts of

1288
01:32:12,239 --> 01:32:17,359
America is going to be familiar with this concept. The

1289
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:23,000
Boy Scouts of America. When you achieved the rank of

1290
01:32:23,079 --> 01:32:26,319
Eagle Scout. If you join the military, you automatically became

1291
01:32:26,359 --> 01:32:30,359
a corporal when you finish boot camp because you already

1292
01:32:30,399 --> 01:32:37,039
had this paramilitary training and leadership training. And typically what

1293
01:32:37,079 --> 01:32:39,920
would happen is like in boot camp you would assert

1294
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:42,680
that right like, you have these organizational skills and this

1295
01:32:43,079 --> 01:32:47,119
basic knowledge of you know, rucking and all this stuff,

1296
01:32:47,640 --> 01:32:54,880
and so this is where you get the energy. Old guys,

1297
01:32:55,199 --> 01:32:59,119
you know, with beer bellies at the range shooting their

1298
01:32:59,560 --> 01:33:03,439
seventeen hundred dollars twenty two's are not the core of

1299
01:33:03,479 --> 01:33:06,199
a militia, and they won't they won't make up the

1300
01:33:06,199 --> 01:33:09,840
core of a militia, but they can train the like

1301
01:33:10,239 --> 01:33:14,840
seventeen year olds your you're Kyle rittenhouses of the world,

1302
01:33:15,479 --> 01:33:21,159
to become radicalized and become the militant underground, so to

1303
01:33:21,239 --> 01:33:24,720
become a paramilitary or a street fighting force, or a

1304
01:33:24,720 --> 01:33:28,520
self defense force that will go out and defend your

1305
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:31,720
faction when you're attacked by these other groups. I will

1306
01:33:31,720 --> 01:33:34,760
talk more about who all these parties are in a second,

1307
01:33:35,199 --> 01:33:39,920
but I want you to kind of familiarize with these.

1308
01:33:41,239 --> 01:33:46,319
With the optics on display here, it's pretty obvious what's

1309
01:33:46,359 --> 01:33:47,359
going on here.

1310
01:33:47,279 --> 01:33:47,439
Speaker 1: So.

1311
01:33:51,439 --> 01:33:57,119
Speaker 2: There's it's really important to understand that. I oh, my goodness,

1312
01:33:57,199 --> 01:34:00,439
I corrected the content of the slide, but not the title.

1313
01:34:00,560 --> 01:34:04,199
It's the Second Spanish Republic. My apologies. Everyone Spain is

1314
01:34:04,239 --> 01:34:07,840
now in the current. In the Third Spanish Republic. There

1315
01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:14,159
were attempts at republics, only one sixth succeeded officially in

1316
01:34:14,279 --> 01:34:19,640
the nineteenth century for not very long period of time,

1317
01:34:20,479 --> 01:34:24,079
So nineteen thirty one was when the Second Spanish Republic

1318
01:34:24,239 --> 01:34:28,840
was proclaimed. Essentially, they had been trying really hard, the

1319
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:31,800
Libtards had been trying really hard and pushing really hard

1320
01:34:32,399 --> 01:34:37,640
in the nineteenth century to establish a republic in Spain,

1321
01:34:39,119 --> 01:34:45,359
and there were three wars by the traditionalist groups against

1322
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,520
the various factions that were involved, one of the key

1323
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:57,960
factions being a liberalized like constitutional monarchy and a parliament

1324
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:07,239
that was representing the public political orderly fight between the

1325
01:35:07,359 --> 01:35:15,399
traditionalist royalists and the everyone else, the basically liberals, whatever

1326
01:35:15,439 --> 01:35:19,600
you might want to try to call them, the street

1327
01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:25,359
fighting in and general uprisings. Because of the failures of

1328
01:35:25,399 --> 01:35:28,439
all these things, because of all the social turmoil that

1329
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:32,479
took place in the early twentieth century, it got to

1330
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:37,239
the point where there was a dictatorship that was a

1331
01:35:37,319 --> 01:35:41,199
military dictatorship that was established with the blessing of the king,

1332
01:35:42,319 --> 01:35:47,520
in which a military general, Miguel Primo de Rivera was

1333
01:35:47,640 --> 01:35:53,119
appointed dictator for a period of seven years, and a

1334
01:35:53,119 --> 01:35:56,439
bunch of the kind of right wing factions or what

1335
01:35:56,520 --> 01:36:00,520
would eventually become the right wing factions in the Spanish War,

1336
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:08,840
were working with the establishment to tamp things down through

1337
01:36:09,079 --> 01:36:15,720
officially or through local militias that were semi legal, et cetera.

1338
01:36:17,119 --> 01:36:22,960
The essentially there, the but the overall mood got to

1339
01:36:23,000 --> 01:36:26,840
the point where there were elections in nineteen thirty one

1340
01:36:27,479 --> 01:36:34,720
where the the Republican elements, which was where these vast

1341
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:43,399
coalitions of communists anarchists, socialists, and various types of supposedly

1342
01:36:43,479 --> 01:36:49,960
moderate republican anti anti monarchists won so much in these

1343
01:36:50,000 --> 01:36:56,439
local elections, and the most importantly, the press had been saying,

1344
01:36:57,239 --> 01:37:01,279
and again the presses associated with political parties and people

1345
01:37:01,319 --> 01:37:05,760
with lots of money. The press declared, oh, well, this

1346
01:37:06,000 --> 01:37:11,680
is a essentially a peaceful, legal uprising against the monarchy.

1347
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:17,920
We all want the republic. The king fled the country

1348
01:37:19,840 --> 01:37:25,119
and the Second Spanish Republic was proclaimed. I am handwaving slightly.

1349
01:37:25,159 --> 01:37:29,880
It's not really worth diving into extreme levels of detail here.

1350
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:35,560
So you're like, oh, republic, that's great, just like America.

1351
01:37:36,359 --> 01:37:41,159
It's more like the quote unquote Republic of France. And

1352
01:37:41,159 --> 01:37:44,439
that's not even quote unquote. I should say, think of

1353
01:37:44,520 --> 01:37:49,399
the murderous uprisings in you know, the French Revolution and

1354
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:53,960
the republic that was proclaimed there. It was anti monarchist,

1355
01:37:54,119 --> 01:37:59,920
it was anti church, it was anti tradition. Basically, longstre

1356
01:38:00,279 --> 01:38:06,800
short is, the leftists went wild, burning churches, murdering right

1357
01:38:06,800 --> 01:38:11,560
wingers like crazy. When you see again, this is the

1358
01:38:11,720 --> 01:38:15,159
according to the libtards, that there was religious and land reform.

1359
01:38:15,279 --> 01:38:20,239
Well what that meant was they essentially overnight said well,

1360
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,960
you don't own more more than like thirty two acres

1361
01:38:24,000 --> 01:38:29,239
of land. And so the idea there was like small holders,

1362
01:38:30,319 --> 01:38:35,399
you know, like the middle classes and peasants theoretically wouldn't

1363
01:38:35,399 --> 01:38:40,520
be impacted by this, and only the large landholders in fairness.

1364
01:38:40,840 --> 01:38:44,319
And I always add this caveat because I agree with

1365
01:38:44,680 --> 01:38:49,720
the Phalangay and the a lot of the carlists, which

1366
01:38:49,760 --> 01:38:54,760
is that there was a system, especially in Andalusia, where

1367
01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:59,359
there was essentially a landless peasants slave labor situation on

1368
01:38:59,439 --> 01:39:03,279
the lat to India, which was a system of vast

1369
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,640
estates that went all the way back to at least

1370
01:39:07,760 --> 01:39:12,079
the Romans and probably predated the Romans that had never

1371
01:39:12,159 --> 01:39:17,199
really been reformed even after the reconquista. There was never

1372
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:21,880
a route of no bless oblige. There was never the

1373
01:39:22,000 --> 01:39:25,439
fueros as you saw in the North, where all the

1374
01:39:25,479 --> 01:39:29,319
different classes had these clearly defined rights. It was this

1375
01:39:29,520 --> 01:39:35,439
kind of tragic situation that wasn't addressed after the reconquista.

1376
01:39:36,039 --> 01:39:38,079
Call me a libtard if you want, I don't care.

1377
01:39:38,279 --> 01:39:42,479
I'm in good standing with some of the hardestcore motherfuckers

1378
01:39:42,479 --> 01:39:46,800
out there, including Francisco Franco. On the subject Francisco Franco

1379
01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:51,880
did away with this system. They removed that because it

1380
01:39:51,960 --> 01:39:55,000
was not morally cool, and it also took away a

1381
01:39:55,000 --> 01:40:00,479
weapon from the future left. So as you can imagine,

1382
01:40:00,520 --> 01:40:03,399
people don't like having their land taken away, they don't

1383
01:40:03,479 --> 01:40:07,279
like having the chaos that comes with that. And keep

1384
01:40:07,279 --> 01:40:11,800
in mind, it didn't mean that this happened overnight, because

1385
01:40:11,840 --> 01:40:14,199
people would still have to go out take the land,

1386
01:40:15,239 --> 01:40:19,199
take over it, start running, running it, kick people off, whatever.

1387
01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:24,239
It was a lot of conflict. The religious one was

1388
01:40:24,279 --> 01:40:27,960
even worse. And the religious one is what really radicalized

1389
01:40:28,079 --> 01:40:31,960
quote unquote or made people wake up on the right,

1390
01:40:32,680 --> 01:40:37,119
and that's where they basically banned the church. And Spain

1391
01:40:37,800 --> 01:40:46,640
is Catholic Spain. There were no schools, or almost no

1392
01:40:46,760 --> 01:40:50,920
schools that weren't given to people by the church. There

1393
01:40:50,960 --> 01:40:55,359
was almost no education, There was almost no charity. There

1394
01:40:55,439 --> 01:41:00,399
was almost no distribution of resources for the poor. Wasn't

1395
01:41:00,399 --> 01:41:06,199
associated with the church doing it. The church is very important.

1396
01:41:06,359 --> 01:41:09,600
They didn't have counselors at the time, they didn't have

1397
01:41:09,920 --> 01:41:13,920
psychology and psychiatry outside of the cities. You talked to

1398
01:41:13,960 --> 01:41:19,119
your priest. The priest helped with everything. Remember me talking

1399
01:41:19,119 --> 01:41:23,159
about the fueros and how the church intervened in legal

1400
01:41:23,199 --> 01:41:28,720
disputes and helping settle on what's appropriate punishment for people

1401
01:41:28,760 --> 01:41:35,319
and sentences, and you know, resolving local situations between great

1402
01:41:35,439 --> 01:41:40,640
landholders and poor people and working people. The church and

1403
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:45,760
the libtard said no, no more church, bye bye. You

1404
01:41:45,800 --> 01:41:49,800
couldn't even have a religious procession in public. In fact,

1405
01:41:50,560 --> 01:41:53,920
in many cases it was interpreted you couldn't even have

1406
01:41:54,000 --> 01:42:01,600
the cross displayed outside. The churches were nationalized. The beautiful

1407
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:04,239
cathedrals of Spain, of which there are many and they

1408
01:42:04,279 --> 01:42:11,239
are awe inspiring and moving, were nationalized and had to

1409
01:42:11,279 --> 01:42:18,039
start paying rent to the state. They started killing people.

1410
01:42:19,920 --> 01:42:24,239
You couldn't have a school unless you had an approved

1411
01:42:24,439 --> 01:42:29,520
libtard teaching you, which meant that you had a communist. Yeah.

1412
01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:33,520
People did not like this at all. So in nineteen

1413
01:42:33,600 --> 01:42:43,880
thirty three, loffully legally the right wing one electorally like crazy.

1414
01:42:44,439 --> 01:42:47,079
Now here's the important thing to keep in mind. The

1415
01:42:47,159 --> 01:42:53,920
Republic would not appoint they would not follow their own

1416
01:42:54,119 --> 01:42:58,800
rules as it related to the way that they should

1417
01:42:58,800 --> 01:43:08,520
have behaved during this election. Because the Conservative Catholic Party

1418
01:43:09,399 --> 01:43:19,119
Seeda Ceda, won a majority of House seats or parliamentary seats.

1419
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:25,439
But the President of the republic Asagnya refused to appoint

1420
01:43:25,600 --> 01:43:30,319
the head of SEEDA, Jose Maria guil Roblis, or anyone

1421
01:43:30,439 --> 01:43:36,439
from SEEDA as a prime minister. You know, they they

1422
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:39,920
they had a majority, refused to do it. So he

1423
01:43:40,000 --> 01:43:45,199
appointed this guy, Alejandro Leroue, who was a old school

1424
01:43:46,039 --> 01:43:49,079
political operator from this party all the way over here

1425
01:43:49,119 --> 01:43:52,760
at the right. That's in a box. The Radical Republicans.

1426
01:43:54,479 --> 01:43:57,039
They're important to understand because they were a thing for

1427
01:43:57,119 --> 01:44:01,119
quite a long time and they essentially disappear by nineteen

1428
01:44:01,239 --> 01:44:05,359
thirty five. End of nineteen thirty five, I should say, So,

1429
01:44:06,199 --> 01:44:13,920
here's the head of the government, essentially whose own party

1430
01:44:15,039 --> 01:44:20,800
is and who is assembling, you know, a coalition government

1431
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:25,479
with as many leftists and quote unquote moderists and centrist

1432
01:44:25,520 --> 01:44:30,520
conservatives of as he can trying to deny the right wingers,

1433
01:44:31,119 --> 01:44:37,600
say the Communion Tradicionalista, et cetera, from having actual party

1434
01:44:38,159 --> 01:44:42,880
party power. Excuse me. So the one of the concessions

1435
01:44:42,960 --> 01:44:46,680
is that the head of say that gil Roebliss was

1436
01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:49,880
Minister of War, so he was connected to the military,

1437
01:44:50,239 --> 01:44:54,399
which was actually convenient. They kind of thought that that

1438
01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:56,199
was a joke because they're like, well, we're going to

1439
01:44:56,239 --> 01:45:00,199
be doing the social revolution and all these other other parties,

1440
01:45:01,079 --> 01:45:03,880
So who cares what the military does because the military

1441
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,960
is this decrepit organization in mainland Spain and all the

1442
01:45:08,039 --> 01:45:14,359
hardcore right wing fighters are across the water in Morocco

1443
01:45:14,840 --> 01:45:19,039
and the Canary Islands, so who cares? Right, Pretty funny

1444
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:25,039
that bites them because they're arrogant liptards. So anyway, nineteen

1445
01:45:25,119 --> 01:45:28,880
thirty four there is a quote unquote response, a reaction

1446
01:45:29,199 --> 01:45:32,880
to the reactionaries getting all this oppressive power, and they're

1447
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:37,640
so worried that fascism is rising, right, so there are

1448
01:45:37,760 --> 01:45:43,239
general strikes and uprisings. There's a big revolt in Austurias

1449
01:45:43,239 --> 01:45:46,600
with the miners where the army has to go in,

1450
01:45:46,600 --> 01:45:52,560
including Francisco Franco. The Republic sends the army in to

1451
01:45:52,600 --> 01:45:55,600
deal with this stuff because these guys are out of control,

1452
01:45:56,039 --> 01:45:58,800
and then they're like, oh crap, we gotta send the

1453
01:45:59,000 --> 01:46:02,960
army like militants off somewhere, So they send Franco to

1454
01:46:03,000 --> 01:46:05,680
the Canary Islands where you can't bother anyone, they think,

1455
01:46:07,119 --> 01:46:12,319
and then they send Mola to Pamplona, because they're like,

1456
01:46:12,359 --> 01:46:16,960
that's a backwater. No one cares about Pomplona, the Carlist

1457
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:21,600
heartland anyway. So you'll see that I have the words

1458
01:46:21,640 --> 01:46:24,119
at the polls and in the streets. Here. So the

1459
01:46:24,159 --> 01:46:30,720
parties at bottom, there's the Republican Left, which is a

1460
01:46:30,880 --> 01:46:36,760
Zagna's party, and they are basically like the Democrats now

1461
01:46:37,199 --> 01:46:41,279
where they are very radical, but they have all these

1462
01:46:41,359 --> 01:46:44,880
trappings of the processes and everything. And then you'll see

1463
01:46:44,880 --> 01:46:49,079
there's a Republican Left of Catalonia which is associated with them,

1464
01:46:49,159 --> 01:46:54,319
kind of like DSA types, but Catalonians so separatist in Catalan.

1465
01:46:55,399 --> 01:46:59,720
The Republican Union is their national group. It's a it's

1466
01:46:59,760 --> 01:47:06,399
a again a bunch of libtards. The POUM are Trotskyist communists,

1467
01:47:06,720 --> 01:47:12,880
so less international or at least not Soviet aligned. And

1468
01:47:12,920 --> 01:47:15,800
then there's the PCEE, which is the Communist Party of Spain,

1469
01:47:16,479 --> 01:47:20,840
which is one hundred percent aligned slash controlled by the

1470
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:26,279
Soviet Union. They're rising in the streets, they're getting people

1471
01:47:26,399 --> 01:47:35,479
riled up. End of nineteen thirty five, Laruez coalition government

1472
01:47:35,760 --> 01:47:42,319
coalition collapses, new elections are called for Asagna still the president.

1473
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:48,319
What happens all these parties on the left, the Republican Left,

1474
01:47:48,359 --> 01:47:52,920
the Republican Left of Catalonia, the Republican Union POUM PCE,

1475
01:47:53,399 --> 01:47:56,439
and a bunch of other parties. Not the anarchists, though

1476
01:47:56,760 --> 01:47:58,760
I will point out the anarchists are like, we don't

1477
01:47:58,760 --> 01:48:01,319
want to have anything to do with the electoral process.

1478
01:48:01,399 --> 01:48:05,800
We don't want to give our consent to the suppressive system.

1479
01:48:06,359 --> 01:48:09,600
They unify in a Popular Front. The Popular Front is

1480
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:19,159
a electoral strategy that was created by the Communist International

1481
01:48:19,279 --> 01:48:23,920
as a tactic in the nineteen thirties and saw pretty

1482
01:48:23,920 --> 01:48:30,479
great success in Spain and in France. France had a

1483
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:39,279
Jewish left wing socialist president, Leon Bloom right about this time.

1484
01:48:40,039 --> 01:48:43,680
So the Popular Front fortifies the election, which means they

1485
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:47,880
stole the election, just like in twenty twenty. The radical

1486
01:48:47,920 --> 01:48:51,199
Republicans aren't radical enough, so they go away, they cease

1487
01:48:51,279 --> 01:48:56,920
to be a power. This is not taken well by

1488
01:48:57,119 --> 01:49:02,520
the right wingers who see this continuous escalation. They see

1489
01:49:02,840 --> 01:49:06,119
the republic is attacking them and their way of life

1490
01:49:06,119 --> 01:49:08,800
and their religion and everything that they believe, and when

1491
01:49:08,800 --> 01:49:12,399
they go out to vote, they are suppressed ruthlessly at

1492
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:17,920
the polls, ballot stuffing, ballot harvesting all the tricks, and

1493
01:49:18,000 --> 01:49:23,239
so they're like, this system is illegitimate. So let me

1494
01:49:23,279 --> 01:49:26,840
step back a touch and talk about how we got

1495
01:49:26,840 --> 01:49:34,000
to this point. This here is the say, the symbol,

1496
01:49:34,720 --> 01:49:41,239
and again this is the mainstream right wing mostly monarchist

1497
01:49:42,279 --> 01:49:49,640
political party. This is the Carlist. They were represented by

1498
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:56,279
the Communion Tradis Traditionionalista, which was their electoral party, but

1499
01:49:56,680 --> 01:49:59,920
they were never about voting. Their whole thing was we

1500
01:50:00,199 --> 01:50:04,359
participate in elections to improve our position for the inevitable

1501
01:50:04,399 --> 01:50:07,079
war to come, because we know what's coming. And then

1502
01:50:07,159 --> 01:50:13,279
right here is the symbol of the Phalange. And the

1503
01:50:13,720 --> 01:50:18,439
important thing to understand is the creator of the phalange

1504
01:50:19,159 --> 01:50:28,920
was General Miguel Primo de Rivera's son. And when from

1505
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:31,880
the moment the Second Spanish Republic is proclaimed, you need

1506
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:34,640
to understand that the right wing parties were not pro

1507
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:41,800
republic because they saw democracy as a deterioration of authority.

1508
01:50:42,439 --> 01:50:48,399
They felt that their old deal was better. There was

1509
01:50:48,479 --> 01:50:55,079
the situation, particularly in the cities, where as the cities grew,

1510
01:50:55,239 --> 01:50:59,119
an industry developed, especially in Catalonia and up in the

1511
01:50:59,159 --> 01:51:04,399
north and Basque Country, and you had these deracinated elements

1512
01:51:04,840 --> 01:51:08,039
leaving you know where they were from to work in

1513
01:51:08,079 --> 01:51:11,119
the cities, and they became deracinated because they were in

1514
01:51:11,159 --> 01:51:14,880
an alien environment. You had in the north non Basque

1515
01:51:15,600 --> 01:51:20,800
from you know, all over kind of the areas, ringing, ringing,

1516
01:51:20,880 --> 01:51:26,880
Basque country, who would feel alienated in the cities working

1517
01:51:27,039 --> 01:51:29,520
in industry. Very similar story to what you see in

1518
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:33,159
the US in the in the nineteenth century, with like

1519
01:51:33,319 --> 01:51:37,199
how the Irish responded, you know, the perfidious Irish who

1520
01:51:37,239 --> 01:51:41,039
became left wingers. That's me slightly teasing. I love my

1521
01:51:41,159 --> 01:51:44,279
Irish brothers and sisters, but you know what I'm talking about,

1522
01:51:44,840 --> 01:51:47,840
the left wingers because you live in the fucking cities,

1523
01:51:48,880 --> 01:51:52,520
so they fall for all the tricks. But you can

1524
01:51:52,720 --> 01:52:00,960
also understand it because you're essentially deracinated and weakened. You're

1525
01:52:01,000 --> 01:52:06,279
a weak individual serving as labor for the capitalist classes.

1526
01:52:06,920 --> 01:52:13,800
So the Falling Gay was an attempt to mitigate that

1527
01:52:14,199 --> 01:52:18,760
in the kind of in the tradition of the fascists

1528
01:52:18,920 --> 01:52:22,760
and the national socialists, which is like, we need to

1529
01:52:22,800 --> 01:52:27,560
have a system that considers like all classes and brings

1530
01:52:27,640 --> 01:52:30,840
them together. Whereas the traditionalists are like, we have that system,

1531
01:52:30,920 --> 01:52:36,319
it's the old system. It didn't really work out that

1532
01:52:36,359 --> 01:52:39,359
way though, because these aliens would pop in and they

1533
01:52:39,399 --> 01:52:45,159
were like almost classless labor class. So anyway, November nineteen

1534
01:52:45,239 --> 01:52:50,319
thirty one, it doesn't take long for the anarchists and

1535
01:52:50,359 --> 01:52:54,960
the communists to say, hey, under this supposed Spanish Republic,

1536
01:52:55,000 --> 01:52:57,560
there's not a lot of authority. There's no one putting

1537
01:52:57,600 --> 01:53:01,159
their boot in our face as we so rightly deserve.

1538
01:53:01,520 --> 01:53:06,920
Let's have general strikes and attack our political enemies. Violence

1539
01:53:06,960 --> 01:53:13,119
skyrockets just from this point on. It's completely bananas. December

1540
01:53:13,600 --> 01:53:17,600
nineteen thirty one, the Spanish Republic passes the radical anti

1541
01:53:17,640 --> 01:53:21,960
Catholic Constitution as I was talking about before, essentially banning

1542
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:28,640
the church as much as they could, and the right

1543
01:53:28,680 --> 01:53:32,279
wing says forget it. The Carlists form their own political party.

1544
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:37,680
Speaker 1: Yes, even though it was pretty much written down, it

1545
01:53:37,720 --> 01:53:38,840
was more of a.

1546
01:53:39,039 --> 01:53:42,119
Speaker 2: De facto Yes, that's a very good point.

1547
01:53:42,399 --> 01:53:44,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't dejure, it was it was to facto.

1548
01:53:44,960 --> 01:53:48,199
It was like, wait, you know, are you still going

1549
01:53:48,239 --> 01:53:51,199
to church? You know, And they probably wouldn't say anything

1550
01:53:51,239 --> 01:53:55,760
to grandmothers. Yeah, grandmothers, it's fine. They're they're not a

1551
01:53:55,840 --> 01:53:59,000
dangerous to anyone. Let them go and do their thing. Yeah. Yeah,

1552
01:53:59,039 --> 01:54:02,079
they're going to die soon anyway. But you're going to

1553
01:54:02,119 --> 01:54:05,600
get pressure at this point upon the youth. Yes, And

1554
01:54:05,840 --> 01:54:08,399
that's that's the most important thing to take away from

1555
01:54:08,399 --> 01:54:13,159
this anci Catholic constitution. Not only that is well, you

1556
01:54:13,199 --> 01:54:18,159
can see five years before nineteen thirty six, July to

1557
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:24,319
December of nineteen thirty six, that this this Catholic hate

1558
01:54:24,399 --> 01:54:28,640
and the murder, the murder of clergy, and the burning

1559
01:54:28,680 --> 01:54:32,119
down of churches. This wasn't something that just came up.

1560
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:35,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, very good way to put it. Let me read

1561
01:54:36,000 --> 01:54:40,239
something very briefly, that is from the at the time

1562
01:54:40,279 --> 01:54:45,920
a moderate Republican when LaRue in nineteen oh six, he

1563
01:54:46,279 --> 01:54:49,560
remember at this point in the nineteen thirty four he

1564
01:54:49,640 --> 01:54:56,399
becomes the kind of reactionary coalition creator for the republic

1565
01:54:56,560 --> 01:55:01,720
to tamper the say, the victory. So this is the

1566
01:55:01,720 --> 01:55:07,199
moderate the future. Moderate LaRue speaking in nineteen oh six, quote,

1567
01:55:07,399 --> 01:55:11,359
young barbarians of today enter and sack the decadent civilization

1568
01:55:11,479 --> 01:55:15,760
of this unhappy country, destroy its temples, finish off its gods,

1569
01:55:16,239 --> 01:55:19,399
tear the veil from its novices, raise them up to

1570
01:55:19,439 --> 01:55:22,920
be mothers, to virilize the species. Think about what that means,

1571
01:55:23,760 --> 01:55:27,319
break into the records of property, make bonfires of its papers.

1572
01:55:27,640 --> 01:55:31,880
The fire may purify the infamous social organization, enter its

1573
01:55:31,960 --> 01:55:35,840
humble hearts, and raise the lesions of proletarians that the

1574
01:55:35,880 --> 01:55:39,399
world may tremble before they're awakened. Judges do not be

1575
01:55:39,520 --> 01:55:45,119
stopped by altars nor by tombs. Fight, kill, die. That's

1576
01:55:45,159 --> 01:55:51,720
the republic. So the conservatives are like, we don't want

1577
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:52,840
anything to do with this.

1578
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:55,800
Speaker 1: Do you know the fascists in nineteen thirty six, they

1579
01:55:55,960 --> 01:55:57,720
all they did was overthrow a republic.

1580
01:55:57,840 --> 01:56:03,239
Speaker 2: I know exactly. So here's a really important thing to

1581
01:56:03,359 --> 01:56:07,960
understand that happens at this point. So think about it.

1582
01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:14,760
Unlike this is very unlike today. Unlike today, there aren't people.

1583
01:56:15,039 --> 01:56:20,159
There aren't old people remembering fondly a republic and the

1584
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:23,960
orderly nature of things. That is something that is very different.

1585
01:56:24,960 --> 01:56:30,439
So the the olds were always they were either super

1586
01:56:30,520 --> 01:56:34,479
libtards who had been like you know, think of the

1587
01:56:34,520 --> 01:56:38,000
old libtards that you know who are seething with hatred.

1588
01:56:38,079 --> 01:56:42,039
I'm not talking about the grandma in Iowa who's like

1589
01:56:42,239 --> 01:56:46,840
nice and votes Democrat because that's what our famili's always done,

1590
01:56:47,319 --> 01:56:49,720
you know, I'm not talking about that I'm talking about

1591
01:56:49,840 --> 01:56:54,600
the seething, gross old communists that you knew. I mean

1592
01:56:54,640 --> 01:56:56,920
I knew them. I had some teachers that were like that.

1593
01:56:58,359 --> 01:57:01,439
The other like normal people, were not like that at all.

1594
01:57:01,479 --> 01:57:04,520
They were always opposed to this. So when their sons

1595
01:57:05,640 --> 01:57:08,279
would say, you know, I really hate this system. I

1596
01:57:08,319 --> 01:57:11,520
want to oppose it, they they would be much more

1597
01:57:11,560 --> 01:57:14,159
inclined to be like, I think it's a wonderful idea

1598
01:57:14,199 --> 01:57:19,520
that you're joining the Recuitae militia, my son. So what

1599
01:57:19,640 --> 01:57:23,199
happened at this point is that the political like the

1600
01:57:23,399 --> 01:57:29,680
electoral political parties especially, say that they start having a

1601
01:57:29,760 --> 01:57:34,680
lot of their energy go into these underground militias that

1602
01:57:34,720 --> 01:57:40,680
they're associated with. Seeda and they had a youth movement

1603
01:57:40,720 --> 01:57:43,680
that was very radical. They used a lot of very

1604
01:57:43,720 --> 01:57:51,159
aggressive language. The Carlists had their Recutees which they started

1605
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:55,560
like or really seriously arming and organizing at this point

1606
01:57:55,600 --> 01:57:58,359
in time, although they don't really go fully ham with

1607
01:57:58,479 --> 01:58:03,399
the weaponry until nineteenth thirty four and then the Falonge appear.

1608
01:58:04,119 --> 01:58:10,159
So in August nineteen thirty two, General sun Juro, which

1609
01:58:10,199 --> 01:58:13,439
is a wonderful name to pronounce when you look at

1610
01:58:13,479 --> 01:58:17,199
it and don't speak Spanish the sun Horjada coup. I

1611
01:58:17,319 --> 01:58:22,119
like it. He attempts kind of a quiet coup where

1612
01:58:22,359 --> 01:58:25,239
the military is like some of the military goes in

1613
01:58:25,600 --> 01:58:28,319
and says, ah, we're not cool with this. They get

1614
01:58:28,359 --> 01:58:32,359
sentenced to death and then it gets commuted to like

1615
01:58:32,479 --> 01:58:36,399
life in prison, and then sun Juro just gets exiled

1616
01:58:36,439 --> 01:58:40,479
and he goes to Portugal because the Republic is kind

1617
01:58:40,520 --> 01:58:43,520
of like, we want to like neutralize this and we

1618
01:58:43,560 --> 01:58:45,600
don't want him to be able to do another coup,

1619
01:58:46,079 --> 01:58:48,880
but we don't want to kill him and have like

1620
01:58:48,960 --> 01:58:52,079
half the country rise up, So we're gonna we're going

1621
01:58:52,159 --> 01:58:55,159
to moderate. Like they were willing to moderate. They weren't

1622
01:58:56,560 --> 01:58:59,199
that there. There were still they were still allowing like

1623
01:58:59,239 --> 01:59:04,840
their street fights, like their Antifa troops to go crazy

1624
01:59:04,880 --> 01:59:07,720
in the streets, but they weren't going to publicly do

1625
01:59:07,960 --> 01:59:14,119
something that would radicalize their opponents. They wanted to take

1626
01:59:14,159 --> 01:59:19,439
their time. So in nineteen thirty four, remember I mentioned that, say,

1627
01:59:19,479 --> 01:59:22,920
the electoral victory, but I call it here pyic because

1628
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:26,000
it's like it was the end of their party. They

1629
01:59:26,159 --> 01:59:30,520
won and then they were completely ignored, And maybe that's

1630
01:59:30,520 --> 01:59:34,960
not like the most appropriate use of the term pyic.

1631
01:59:35,079 --> 01:59:38,840
But I still feel like spiritually it is because they

1632
01:59:38,880 --> 01:59:43,600
win this electoral victory, they get nothing, and then they're

1633
01:59:43,800 --> 01:59:48,000
especially their youth movement and their future growth just ends

1634
01:59:48,600 --> 01:59:52,399
because all those people who actually believed in it radicalized,

1635
01:59:53,600 --> 01:59:58,479
and their youth movement in particular starts going over to

1636
02:00:00,520 --> 02:00:08,079
Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera and his Spanish phalanx. And

1637
02:00:08,119 --> 02:00:13,079
then the with the uprisings among the historians and the

1638
02:00:13,159 --> 02:00:16,079
general strikes across the country by the anarchists, those don't

1639
02:00:16,119 --> 02:00:19,520
do very well, and that leads the anarchists to learn

1640
02:00:19,800 --> 02:00:22,840
that they need to actually organize. They also begin to

1641
02:00:22,840 --> 02:00:28,680
see themselves as somewhat as more at odds with the Republic,

1642
02:00:29,319 --> 02:00:33,600
and they're like, let's not cooperate as much as we

1643
02:00:33,760 --> 02:00:40,079
thought might be tactically sound early, especially pre Republic, the

1644
02:00:40,159 --> 02:00:43,920
Carlists basically and say the both say, all right, it's

1645
02:00:44,000 --> 02:00:46,920
time to put most of the money that we collect

1646
02:00:46,960 --> 02:00:50,880
for dues and memberships and donations and everything into arming

1647
02:00:50,920 --> 02:00:57,239
and training the recutees and arranging a real to prepare

1648
02:00:57,279 --> 02:01:02,119
for real military coup. So the canard of electoral parties

1649
02:01:02,800 --> 02:01:06,560
are basically you have people hanging out in parliament, but

1650
02:01:06,840 --> 02:01:10,800
at this point, they're like, only violence is gonna be

1651
02:01:10,920 --> 02:01:13,319
the way forward. So that's where we need to focus.

1652
02:01:14,079 --> 02:01:17,439
So in nineteen thirty five, the Carlists and the Falange

1653
02:01:17,800 --> 02:01:24,279
start training militarily in Italy. They start doing a lot

1654
02:01:24,399 --> 02:01:31,199
more stuff that again it's underground, but they start taking

1655
02:01:31,239 --> 02:01:35,600
a lot of risks, acquiring like thousands and thousands of weapons.

1656
02:01:35,640 --> 02:01:39,439
The street violence goes parabolic. As I say here, there's

1657
02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:44,840
way more street violence of leftists attacking right wingers, and

1658
02:01:45,000 --> 02:01:49,439
the Falange start like assassinating people and stuff like that.

1659
02:01:50,279 --> 02:01:54,840
So there's that February nineteen thirty six election that the

1660
02:01:54,880 --> 02:02:00,720
libtards just blatantly steal. And then July thirteenth, nineteen thirty six,

1661
02:02:02,039 --> 02:02:08,600
Dolores Iberuri announces in the Cortes, well, Jose Calvos Sotelo

1662
02:02:08,760 --> 02:02:14,800
is giving a speech. This is your last speech, officials

1663
02:02:14,840 --> 02:02:21,279
from the republics. My brain is blinking. Sorry that basically,

1664
02:02:21,319 --> 02:02:26,119
their assault guards excuse me, go out arrest Jose Calvos Sotelo.

1665
02:02:26,199 --> 02:02:30,600
They attempted to arrest a phalongist who wasn't there, and

1666
02:02:30,640 --> 02:02:36,520
then they also attempted to arrest another politician. Jose Calvo

1667
02:02:36,560 --> 02:02:39,279
Sotelo was at home they take him for a ride.

1668
02:02:39,520 --> 02:02:41,840
He basically tells his wife that he knows he's going

1669
02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:45,880
to his death. They kill him. That is the thing

1670
02:02:45,960 --> 02:02:55,720
that clinches the nationalist uprising. So this is a view

1671
02:02:56,199 --> 02:02:59,560
of the three key right wing factions that are left over.

1672
02:03:00,279 --> 02:03:06,319
I was talking about those political organizations. The Falling Gay

1673
02:03:06,640 --> 02:03:11,920
is small but grows like crazy during the war. They

1674
02:03:12,000 --> 02:03:15,199
kind of represent that fusion where they're trying to get

1675
02:03:15,239 --> 02:03:19,079
people whose sympathies might be more left wing, that are

1676
02:03:19,119 --> 02:03:24,039
more working class. They're popular with the urban middle class.

1677
02:03:24,840 --> 02:03:28,600
On the other hand, in the middle are the Carlists.

1678
02:03:29,520 --> 02:03:31,720
We'll look at them in detail here in a second.

1679
02:03:32,279 --> 02:03:40,800
They're hardcore Catholic traditionalists, mostly rural, but of all classes.

1680
02:03:41,159 --> 02:03:44,720
And then at the right there's the army, and this

1681
02:03:45,039 --> 02:03:50,960
is the organizer of the coup that one of the

1682
02:03:51,039 --> 02:03:54,600
chief planners, which is General Mola. Noticed that it is

1683
02:03:54,640 --> 02:03:59,920
not Francisco Franco. So again, let's talk about the Carla

1684
02:04:00,079 --> 02:04:04,239
directas a little bit. They are my favorite. They are

1685
02:04:04,279 --> 02:04:07,520
the heirs to the Carlist uprisings of the nineteenth century,

1686
02:04:07,640 --> 02:04:10,039
which mostly took place in the north. In the east,

1687
02:04:10,399 --> 02:04:17,479
that's Catalonia, that's Navarre, that's Basque country, that's Aragon. They're

1688
02:04:17,520 --> 02:04:23,560
anti liberal, anti democratic, Catholic traditionalists. They prefer those old

1689
02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:28,119
class relations. Their terminology was the fueros. You had duties

1690
02:04:28,119 --> 02:04:32,119
and privileges. It's a lot like the Magna Carta. Read

1691
02:04:32,279 --> 02:04:36,760
the Magna Carta. It is a totally different deal. It's

1692
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:40,439
a better deal in so many ways than Geish. It

1693
02:04:40,600 --> 02:04:47,319
like the constitution. Their electoral representation was in the Communion

1694
02:04:47,439 --> 02:04:51,560
tradision Nista. But they never believed that this was their

1695
02:04:51,640 --> 02:04:53,920
path to getting what they wanted. They always knew that

1696
02:04:53,960 --> 02:04:57,640
it would be war. They're spread all over the country,

1697
02:04:57,680 --> 02:05:00,279
Like I said, they're really focused kind of in the

1698
02:05:00,319 --> 02:05:03,520
north and more and more rural areas. But they also

1699
02:05:04,319 --> 02:05:09,000
were very important in Cordoba, Sevilla and Kadiz. And what

1700
02:05:09,039 --> 02:05:12,840
they did is they were able to help the army

1701
02:05:12,880 --> 02:05:16,880
and working with Falanjas, also secure these cities so that

1702
02:05:16,880 --> 02:05:20,239
there were toe holds when the army came. We'll talk

1703
02:05:20,239 --> 02:05:27,399
about that more later. Their preparation resulted in having a

1704
02:05:28,520 --> 02:05:34,119
front line ten thousand men, well armed, well trained citizen militia.

1705
02:05:34,159 --> 02:05:37,640
By spring nineteen thirty six, they had twenty thousand auxiliaries,

1706
02:05:37,960 --> 02:05:42,399
which meant that like July nineteen thirty six, they had

1707
02:05:42,439 --> 02:05:47,039
thirty thousand men ready to go. They were at eighty

1708
02:05:47,119 --> 02:05:50,479
five thousand recruits by the end of nineteen thirty six.

1709
02:05:51,439 --> 02:05:56,720
This uprising never would have happened if the Carlist Recutas

1710
02:05:56,800 --> 02:06:00,760
did not organize their militia. If it was just the army,

1711
02:06:00,760 --> 02:06:05,800
it would not have happened. Take that as you choose

1712
02:06:05,920 --> 02:06:13,920
to organizing and training. In nineteen thirty two, the Carlist

1713
02:06:13,920 --> 02:06:17,079
said had these like youth and social organizations that they

1714
02:06:17,399 --> 02:06:20,479
named in various terms. I have an article about it

1715
02:06:20,520 --> 02:06:26,199
on my sub stack. Highly recommend it. But the youth

1716
02:06:26,279 --> 02:06:30,640
auxiliary using the old name for an old military unit,

1717
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:33,119
I have to revise an article because I found the

1718
02:06:33,159 --> 02:06:41,159
real origin of the term Recutee the juventud Haimita. They

1719
02:06:41,880 --> 02:06:47,359
were organized community defense and street fighting against leftists when

1720
02:06:47,760 --> 02:06:51,399
they would have their religious marches, when they would have

1721
02:06:51,600 --> 02:06:55,920
funerals for their people, when they would have church and

1722
02:06:55,960 --> 02:07:00,640
they were getting people were getting harassed. Like you said, Pete,

1723
02:07:00,960 --> 02:07:05,680
to not participate in church events. The huven who Hymista

1724
02:07:06,079 --> 02:07:11,960
were the ones killing people or beating them. They were flyering,

1725
02:07:12,239 --> 02:07:19,560
they were postering, they were doing marches in uniforms. Wearing masks.

1726
02:07:21,720 --> 02:07:26,399
Nineteen thirty three nineteen thirty four, an army officer who

1727
02:07:26,439 --> 02:07:29,159
had been a Mustang, a very accomplished guy who is

1728
02:07:29,239 --> 02:07:35,560
basically a specop's dude, Jose Enrique Varela, gets the alias

1729
02:07:35,680 --> 02:07:41,439
Don Pepe, hence Pepe. There he was sneaking around in

1730
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:47,880
the north organizing training and arming the Recutes into ten

1731
02:07:47,960 --> 02:07:54,760
man decurias. So that's a non military like local defense organization.

1732
02:07:55,000 --> 02:07:58,359
Because again it's they were thinking defensively at that point

1733
02:07:58,840 --> 02:08:03,079
late nineteen thirty one, for they shift after the historian

1734
02:08:03,159 --> 02:08:06,079
uprisings and all the violence to say, we're going to

1735
02:08:06,199 --> 02:08:10,680
become a military unit. We're going to be trained militarily,

1736
02:08:10,760 --> 02:08:13,560
we're going to have military rank, we're going to think militarily.

1737
02:08:13,640 --> 02:08:16,119
We're going to send people to Italy to learn to

1738
02:08:16,279 --> 02:08:22,079
use automatic weapons and mortars and grenades and not just rifles.

1739
02:08:23,439 --> 02:08:28,239
They are heavily armed. By July nineteen thirty six, the

1740
02:08:29,439 --> 02:08:36,079
Spanish militaries conspirators the coup planners, described the Recutes as

1741
02:08:36,159 --> 02:08:41,039
the only genuine citizen army that's capable of coordinated tactical

1742
02:08:41,119 --> 02:08:45,640
military operations. Everyone else. Their militant wings were street fighters

1743
02:08:45,760 --> 02:08:51,239
and assassins. We still need street fighters and assassins. So

1744
02:08:52,000 --> 02:08:59,600
the Falange Espanola de Lasons is that's jose Antonio up

1745
02:08:59,640 --> 02:09:03,439
there on the corner. It's really hard to talk about

1746
02:09:03,479 --> 02:09:08,000
them because they went through so many iterations in a

1747
02:09:08,079 --> 02:09:12,399
couple of years. They had so many writers, they incorporated

1748
02:09:12,479 --> 02:09:16,079
other groups. A lot of them were way more radical.

1749
02:09:16,520 --> 02:09:20,319
You'll notice I have anti clericalism strike through down there.

1750
02:09:21,319 --> 02:09:23,560
One of the first things that they did is when

1751
02:09:24,600 --> 02:09:29,880
Josey Antonio went to work with monarchists and other people,

1752
02:09:30,119 --> 02:09:31,920
is they said, you got to get rid of some

1753
02:09:32,079 --> 02:09:34,560
of these guys, or we're not going to work with you,

1754
02:09:34,720 --> 02:09:38,199
We're not going to finance you anymore. So that was

1755
02:09:38,239 --> 02:09:41,680
a constant struggle. Is a lot of their like modernist

1756
02:09:41,800 --> 02:09:49,119
futurist people were anti Christian from that whole, Like it's

1757
02:09:49,479 --> 02:09:52,399
exactly what you would expect these days, where they're like, oh,

1758
02:09:52,479 --> 02:09:56,760
Christians are weak, and like we need to you know whatever.

1759
02:09:58,159 --> 02:10:01,239
They had to get rid of those people because of

1760
02:10:02,079 --> 02:10:04,119
or at least those people had to shut up and

1761
02:10:04,239 --> 02:10:06,520
it had to not be part of their core platform.

1762
02:10:08,159 --> 02:10:12,840
So that took place. Their goal, though was not to

1763
02:10:13,000 --> 02:10:16,039
just be reactionaries, and they wanted to appeal to the

1764
02:10:16,520 --> 02:10:18,680
They wanted to appeal to the people that the left

1765
02:10:18,720 --> 02:10:21,399
were appealing to. They wanted the communists and the anarchists

1766
02:10:22,119 --> 02:10:28,560
to be in a nationalist, pro family, pro future, non

1767
02:10:28,760 --> 02:10:37,600
Bolshevist system, and that actually attracted the urban middle class,

1768
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:43,119
the people that were right wingers, that were voters who

1769
02:10:43,159 --> 02:10:48,840
were radicalized by the republican leftist violence. People get bogged

1770
02:10:48,880 --> 02:10:51,920
down in the details. You'll see people blogging about how

1771
02:10:52,560 --> 02:10:58,479
Jose Antonio betrayed the the Revolution and all this stuff,

1772
02:10:58,520 --> 02:11:01,720
but it's a bunch of crap. They were guys who

1773
02:11:02,000 --> 02:11:06,000
wanted to find a spot, and they became a fusion

1774
02:11:07,239 --> 02:11:09,079
of a bunch of different things, and they had all

1775
02:11:09,199 --> 02:11:12,680
kinds of people writing for them, and none of those

1776
02:11:12,840 --> 02:11:16,000
visions were going to win out in Spain because Spain

1777
02:11:16,439 --> 02:11:22,680
is Catholic. Say Tho's youth wing, the juven who they

1778
02:11:22,760 --> 02:11:29,800
axion popular. They funneled into the Foilongate in nineteen thirty

1779
02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:34,359
six like crazy after the elections. So they were never

1780
02:11:34,640 --> 02:11:38,720
very big. They were like maybe ten thousand of them

1781
02:11:39,319 --> 02:11:42,760
up to nineteen thirty five. They exploded in growth in

1782
02:11:42,880 --> 02:11:46,479
nineteen thirty six. They were outlawed in early nineteen thirty six,

1783
02:11:47,000 --> 02:11:50,159
most of the leaders were rounded up and arrested. Most

1784
02:11:50,199 --> 02:11:54,439
of them were martyred, like within a couple months. One

1785
02:11:54,479 --> 02:11:58,520
of the really interesting things is that one of their

1786
02:11:59,039 --> 02:12:05,159
kind of nerdier writers and theorists, Rafael Sanchez Amadas, the

1787
02:12:05,239 --> 02:12:08,399
guy who wrote Kara Alsol Facing the Sun their song,

1788
02:12:08,560 --> 02:12:12,840
which is an absolute banger. He actually is one of

1789
02:12:12,880 --> 02:12:15,399
the only members of the Old Shirts who survived the

1790
02:12:15,479 --> 02:12:23,520
war through all kinds of luck and blessings from on high.

1791
02:12:23,720 --> 02:12:29,119
So one of the more tricky groups to talk about

1792
02:12:29,279 --> 02:12:34,199
because they were let's be honest, they were incorporated and

1793
02:12:34,880 --> 02:12:40,279
used for their optics and their ideas. But we're not

1794
02:12:40,720 --> 02:12:46,640
as influential as some nerds like who cares, That's not

1795
02:12:46,760 --> 02:12:49,039
the point. The point is that they survived and they

1796
02:12:49,159 --> 02:12:56,920
saved their country. So last faction to talk about nationalist army.

1797
02:12:57,000 --> 02:12:59,800
And again this isn't the whole nationalist army. This is

1798
02:13:00,039 --> 02:13:08,399
primarily officers of the army. Some people in the Navy,

1799
02:13:08,520 --> 02:13:15,479
of course, immediately start having informal, casual discussions about, hey,

1800
02:13:15,640 --> 02:13:19,000
what if we had a coup, like what are the

1801
02:13:19,079 --> 02:13:23,239
conditions of that? Who would be involved? So remember I

1802
02:13:23,359 --> 02:13:26,520
pointed out in nineteen thirty two, there was a coup

1803
02:13:27,279 --> 02:13:30,079
in the twenties, there was a very successful coup that

1804
02:13:30,239 --> 02:13:34,119
had Primo de Rivera in charge. So this is not

1805
02:13:34,359 --> 02:13:37,239
like a new thing. Like in Spanish speaking countries. Coups

1806
02:13:37,279 --> 02:13:45,000
are not a shocking development. So the key thing in

1807
02:13:45,159 --> 02:13:48,680
bold right there in the middle is that General Francisco Franco,

1808
02:13:48,840 --> 02:13:51,560
who was cooling his heels down in the Canary Islands.

1809
02:13:52,119 --> 02:13:56,479
He did not join that conspiracy until after Jose Calvos

1810
02:13:56,520 --> 02:14:01,600
Othello was assassinated by the Republics Soul Guards. He was

1811
02:14:01,760 --> 02:14:06,119
also reassured of how many people were ready to roll

1812
02:14:07,000 --> 02:14:11,600
all over the country. If the militias had not been organized,

1813
02:14:11,760 --> 02:14:15,319
Franco almost certainly would not have joined the rising and

1814
02:14:15,399 --> 02:14:19,760
it would have failed, like the nineteen thirty two attempt.

1815
02:14:20,880 --> 02:14:25,960
Very important Franco does not show up as a savior.

1816
02:14:27,079 --> 02:14:33,119
He becomes the natural leader several months into the war

1817
02:14:33,760 --> 02:14:40,760
because he's an elite, hardcore guy who trained an awful

1818
02:14:40,840 --> 02:14:45,319
lot of the younger officers who were hardcore who are

1819
02:14:45,399 --> 02:14:49,600
involved in the conspiracy. People trusted him and he was

1820
02:14:49,760 --> 02:14:57,039
a incredibly shrewd guy. He was not elected, he was

1821
02:14:57,159 --> 02:15:00,880
not chosen in advance. There wasn't an uprise under FRONTCO.

1822
02:15:01,000 --> 02:15:05,840
There was a general uprising under people's individual factions.

1823
02:15:07,319 --> 02:15:10,760
Speaker 1: Well, and let's let's face, let's face the fact that

1824
02:15:11,000 --> 02:15:18,199
he is the archetype Spanish Catholic. Yes, yes, me. There's

1825
02:15:18,279 --> 02:15:20,159
reports that he would go to Mass every day.

1826
02:15:20,600 --> 02:15:25,199
Speaker 2: He was intensely devout and I did not mean to

1827
02:15:25,239 --> 02:15:25,880
stop sharing.

1828
02:15:28,000 --> 02:15:29,039
Speaker 1: Go right ahead and share it again.

1829
02:15:29,079 --> 02:15:37,279
Speaker 2: I'll get it at my bad. So yeah, devout, devout Catholic.

1830
02:15:37,840 --> 02:15:41,119
So here we go.

1831
02:15:41,640 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 1: Also, he had the he was well known in the army.

1832
02:15:47,079 --> 02:15:47,479
Speaker 2: He was.

1833
02:15:50,479 --> 02:15:55,600
Speaker 1: He had the respect of many many. Yeah, so it's

1834
02:15:57,520 --> 02:15:59,239
it was going to come down to him. It was

1835
02:15:59,279 --> 02:16:01,640
going to come down to him. I don't think there

1836
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:05,560
was I don't think there was anybody else. And I

1837
02:16:05,640 --> 02:16:08,760
think anybody else who would have been chosen, we would

1838
02:16:08,760 --> 02:16:09,800
have seen a different outcome.

1839
02:16:10,039 --> 02:16:16,479
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree completely, I agree completely. So we have

1840
02:16:16,680 --> 02:16:21,720
all these factions. What happens in war? What's one of

1841
02:16:21,760 --> 02:16:24,880
the what is the important thing that people always talk

1842
02:16:24,920 --> 02:16:29,600
about in who are military veterans? Well, their shoot move

1843
02:16:29,680 --> 02:16:34,360
communicate with communicat being very very, very very important. But

1844
02:16:34,520 --> 02:16:38,239
then there's also an old term or old saying, if

1845
02:16:38,280 --> 02:16:45,159
you don't have logistics you don't have nothing, and so

1846
02:16:46,159 --> 02:16:50,040
these various factions who rise up that are part of

1847
02:16:50,120 --> 02:16:56,559
this general conspiracy. Logistics are a challenge. You can capture weapons,

1848
02:16:57,239 --> 02:17:02,920
but the army has control of all of the logistics.

1849
02:17:03,319 --> 02:17:09,559
So the militias plug into the army logistical chain. The

1850
02:17:09,920 --> 02:17:13,920
Carlists had a slight advantage in some ways because they

1851
02:17:13,959 --> 02:17:16,680
were associated or many of them were associated with the

1852
02:17:16,799 --> 02:17:21,479
Navar brigades up in the North under Mola, So they're

1853
02:17:21,520 --> 02:17:26,520
plugged into that military chain of command through that channel

1854
02:17:26,559 --> 02:17:32,440
in the Army of the North. But it's a little chaotic.

1855
02:17:32,559 --> 02:17:35,559
They all have their own officers and things like that,

1856
02:17:36,520 --> 02:17:41,000
and that is a challenge in and of itself. But

1857
02:17:43,680 --> 02:17:49,799
what happened was, you know, shrewd old General Franco basically says,

1858
02:17:50,440 --> 02:17:55,200
here's what we're gonna do. All of these various parties,

1859
02:17:55,360 --> 02:18:03,239
all of these various groups are you know, plugged, and

1860
02:18:03,840 --> 02:18:07,479
they're now consolidated down to where you're in the army already.

1861
02:18:08,440 --> 02:18:12,280
You couldn't like join the army January nineteen thirty six

1862
02:18:12,559 --> 02:18:14,520
and go to boot camp like it took them a

1863
02:18:14,600 --> 02:18:20,079
while to one have control over military bases on the peninsula,

1864
02:18:20,879 --> 02:18:25,920
But you could join the militias immediately like that and

1865
02:18:26,760 --> 02:18:31,479
good luck, you know, learn on the job, right. So

1866
02:18:33,399 --> 02:18:39,239
what Franco and the State did was they said, well,

1867
02:18:39,319 --> 02:18:43,639
we have two political parties that are part of this

1868
02:18:43,879 --> 02:18:50,399
fighting force, and they're already plugged into the military logistical system,

1869
02:18:50,520 --> 02:18:55,239
and we're going to unify them under our command. What

1870
02:18:55,440 --> 02:19:00,719
we'll do is we'll make allowances for their symbols and

1871
02:19:01,639 --> 02:19:04,520
you know, so they're flags and some of their rank stuff.

1872
02:19:04,600 --> 02:19:07,520
Although what they did is they incorporated elements of both

1873
02:19:08,280 --> 02:19:12,280
into the army. But like the Carlists could keep their berets,

1874
02:19:12,959 --> 02:19:16,920
they could keep their flags, you know, the Foalonga could

1875
02:19:17,040 --> 02:19:22,639
keep their blue shirts. And then we'll make sure that

1876
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:28,280
you have, you know, your seven millimeter Spanish Mouser rifles

1877
02:19:29,440 --> 02:19:32,280
instead of a hodgepodge of stuff that you acquired before

1878
02:19:32,399 --> 02:19:35,760
the war, and you know, we'll plug you into this

1879
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:39,000
whole system. Another thing I like to point out is

1880
02:19:39,079 --> 02:19:46,719
that the Nationalists had American trucks and fuel and tires

1881
02:19:47,600 --> 02:19:53,200
from American companies on credit, and the British had signed

1882
02:19:53,239 --> 02:19:59,799
off on this huge advantage. And you don't get that

1883
02:20:00,120 --> 02:20:03,440
if you're in the militia, you know, on your own

1884
02:20:03,639 --> 02:20:07,840
and not plugged into the army. So because the state

1885
02:20:08,360 --> 02:20:13,680
spoke for Spain and the Carlists or the Falloay were

1886
02:20:13,760 --> 02:20:19,680
not the state. So April nineteenth, interesting date, nineteen thirty seven,

1887
02:20:19,959 --> 02:20:23,680
one party, one army, one state. So there's one official

1888
02:20:24,239 --> 02:20:27,680
political party left in it is the Falling Gay Espanola

1889
02:20:27,799 --> 02:20:34,399
Tradicionalista e de las Junta State Fenciva Calista. So that

1890
02:20:34,639 --> 02:20:37,440
is a mouthful, but what that does is it combines

1891
02:20:39,319 --> 02:20:44,479
the Falling Gay and the Carlists into the one political party.

1892
02:20:45,399 --> 02:20:48,760
The head of it was Franco. You know, he had

1893
02:20:48,840 --> 02:20:51,959
people in the state, he had people in the Junta

1894
02:20:54,479 --> 02:20:59,879
who were from both parties. These units still fought on

1895
02:21:00,120 --> 02:21:02,840
or the command of their own officers. They generally maintained

1896
02:21:02,879 --> 02:21:07,600
their pre existing like organizational structure, but they were always

1897
02:21:07,879 --> 02:21:13,239
under the primary leaders of the army and under the

1898
02:21:13,440 --> 02:21:16,120
authority of the army from this point in time. So

1899
02:21:17,879 --> 02:21:23,440
why slash, How did the consolidation work? And, like I said,

1900
02:21:23,479 --> 02:21:27,520
post war struggles are excluded from this commentary. Ideology is excluded.

1901
02:21:28,360 --> 02:21:33,000
The time for politics, talk with the enemies and petty

1902
02:21:33,040 --> 02:21:37,239
differences between factions was completely over and everyone believed that

1903
02:21:37,719 --> 02:21:41,399
they believed that it was time for war. They joined

1904
02:21:41,719 --> 02:21:44,319
the units that they could join if they wanted to

1905
02:21:44,399 --> 02:21:48,399
fight or if they felt they had to fight. The

1906
02:21:48,520 --> 02:21:54,520
most extreme parties established large, well organized and relatively well

1907
02:21:54,559 --> 02:21:59,440
equipped parallel institutions, so they could not count on the

1908
02:21:59,520 --> 02:22:03,000
Institute of the Republic. So they created their own. They

1909
02:22:03,079 --> 02:22:08,959
had their own political and local organizational groups, and they

1910
02:22:09,360 --> 02:22:13,200
created militias to defend themselves and to prepare to fight.

1911
02:22:14,040 --> 02:22:17,879
The future belongs to those who show up the other

1912
02:22:18,079 --> 02:22:23,000
rightist faction, which is the nationalist officers. They were either

1913
02:22:23,079 --> 02:22:26,760
already associated with one of those factions like the say

1914
02:22:26,840 --> 02:22:34,239
that went away, so you were either Fologae or you know,

1915
02:22:34,399 --> 02:22:37,360
part of the Carlists, or you didn't care. You're like,

1916
02:22:37,440 --> 02:22:39,600
I'm part of the state. I'm part of this operation.

1917
02:22:39,760 --> 02:22:45,840
This is a non political thing, so who cares. I

1918
02:22:46,159 --> 02:22:49,360
feel like that is going to be one of those

1919
02:22:49,399 --> 02:22:52,000
things that's going to catch people by surprise. And when

1920
02:22:52,040 --> 02:22:55,799
you look at the debates that take place now in

1921
02:22:56,120 --> 02:22:59,639
our space, that's one of the hardest things for people

1922
02:22:59,719 --> 02:23:02,040
to say is they want to hold on to their

1923
02:23:02,159 --> 02:23:06,840
old beliefs, and a lot of those are legitimate. I'm

1924
02:23:06,879 --> 02:23:09,000
not going to tell anyone to vote or not to vote.

1925
02:23:09,079 --> 02:23:10,879
I'm not going to tell anyone who to support or

1926
02:23:10,959 --> 02:23:14,360
not to support, but my general thinking is, like the

1927
02:23:14,479 --> 02:23:19,559
time for like differences are over, and if you're essentially

1928
02:23:19,760 --> 02:23:24,319
allied allied with one another, like why not just become

1929
02:23:26,600 --> 02:23:29,159
a one bundle of sticks with an axe head sticking

1930
02:23:29,200 --> 02:23:29,959
out of the top of it.

1931
02:23:30,239 --> 02:23:37,799
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, yeah, you're know, you know, people.

1932
02:23:37,559 --> 02:23:42,120
Speaker 2: Are yeah, exactly, but you know, when bullets start flying,

1933
02:23:42,760 --> 02:23:51,120
you know, the talking stops. So anyway, a couple of

1934
02:23:51,200 --> 02:23:53,200
quick slides here, and I'm not going to spend a

1935
02:23:53,280 --> 02:23:58,239
ton of time talking about like the political and you know,

1936
02:23:58,479 --> 02:24:03,239
tactical and strategic system here. But I'm showing this because

1937
02:24:03,360 --> 02:24:05,600
I want to show you the territory that was held

1938
02:24:06,520 --> 02:24:13,959
primarily by the militias. Everyone's militias, including the leftists, KADIV

1939
02:24:14,520 --> 02:24:22,159
and Sevilla, especially in Cordova. Yeah, army barracks were important,

1940
02:24:22,559 --> 02:24:31,600
but the militias, the Volangay and the Carlist militias helped

1941
02:24:31,639 --> 02:24:35,040
secure these areas, all that swath of territory up in

1942
02:24:35,120 --> 02:24:41,360
the north, that is because of the militias, the citizen militias.

1943
02:24:42,719 --> 02:24:47,760
Another element to this is that the military uprising the

1944
02:24:47,840 --> 02:24:52,799
success of the military uprising in specific units and barracks

1945
02:24:53,280 --> 02:24:56,920
often came up to the individual courage of an individual

1946
02:24:57,040 --> 02:25:01,280
officer who would walk in and basically say you're under

1947
02:25:01,399 --> 02:25:05,799
arrest to you know, or he'd say you're joining us,

1948
02:25:06,360 --> 02:25:15,159
or you're under arrest. That is ballsy, and that's how

1949
02:25:15,239 --> 02:25:25,479
that happened. Way less official, you know, involvement in in

1950
02:25:25,680 --> 02:25:28,360
claiming the land and the land that's being controlled here,

1951
02:25:28,719 --> 02:25:32,639
so very important thing to understand. The rising is most

1952
02:25:32,680 --> 02:25:35,440
successful in the conservative parts of Spain and a couple

1953
02:25:35,440 --> 02:25:39,840
of military strongholds and often squashed in street fighting by

1954
02:25:40,000 --> 02:25:47,360
leftist militias, as in Barcelona, Santander, Toledo and Madrid Toledo

1955
02:25:47,479 --> 02:25:51,319
with a big asterisk except for the Alkazar, the heroic Alkazar,

1956
02:25:52,559 --> 02:25:57,000
and so with those holdings this is March nineteen thirty seven,

1957
02:25:57,079 --> 02:26:00,639
but an awful lot of this was like by more

1958
02:26:00,760 --> 02:26:06,159
like October November of nineteen thirty six because of the

1959
02:26:06,319 --> 02:26:10,239
land held by the militias or by these individual garrisons

1960
02:26:10,319 --> 02:26:16,479
or whatever, especially the containment around Madrid by the Carlist

1961
02:26:16,559 --> 02:26:24,040
militias largely the Army of Africa and the you know,

1962
02:26:24,120 --> 02:26:29,159
the Spanish legion coming across the med was able to

1963
02:26:30,040 --> 02:26:35,559
expand these territorial holdings again because of the militias. Another

1964
02:26:35,719 --> 02:26:40,000
key thing is that the Republicans had quote unquote secured

1965
02:26:40,079 --> 02:26:45,920
military support from the Soviet Union. The Soviets had huge

1966
02:26:46,319 --> 02:26:52,319
shipments of weapons going to Spain within days. And the

1967
02:26:54,200 --> 02:27:01,079
the international volunteers under the International Brigades that was arranged

1968
02:27:01,280 --> 02:27:06,879
by the Soviet International, which meant that those were Communists.

1969
02:27:08,319 --> 02:27:11,920
The vast majority of them were Communists, something like forty

1970
02:27:11,959 --> 02:27:16,600
percent Jewish. Just as a note up to I should say,

1971
02:27:17,719 --> 02:27:22,040
there's in my appendix of my book, and then I

1972
02:27:22,159 --> 02:27:27,920
have a note an article with the source material. There's

1973
02:27:28,239 --> 02:27:31,600
a very interesting article in there about the legwork a

1974
02:27:32,520 --> 02:27:39,239
Jewish communist did improving how important that Jews were to

1975
02:27:39,440 --> 02:27:43,959
the International Brigades. At the very least, it was like

1976
02:27:44,040 --> 02:27:46,440
the majority of their officers were Jewish.

1977
02:27:46,840 --> 02:27:53,079
Speaker 1: Big surprise, almost all of the there was three thousand

1978
02:27:53,760 --> 02:27:57,879
volunteers from the United States, and almost to a man

1979
02:27:58,200 --> 02:28:01,559
and woman, they were all yes. Yeah.

1980
02:28:02,239 --> 02:28:05,120
Speaker 2: In my book, one of the first things is they

1981
02:28:06,479 --> 02:28:12,319
in the first chapter they take out a a couple

1982
02:28:12,479 --> 02:28:18,200
positions of International Brigades, and our guy who's an intelligence

1983
02:28:18,239 --> 02:28:20,520
officer is going through all their documents and it's like

1984
02:28:20,600 --> 02:28:24,879
little David from Brooklyn and stuff like that. It's it

1985
02:28:25,040 --> 02:28:29,079
is what it is, man, it's if someone writes this down,

1986
02:28:29,360 --> 02:28:37,239
I believe it. So yeah, all right, so very brief

1987
02:28:37,360 --> 02:28:45,440
notes on a successful leftist organization, which is the cnt FAI,

1988
02:28:47,520 --> 02:28:51,520
and I am sharing this because it's educational. There's an

1989
02:28:51,639 --> 02:28:56,000
article about it on my substack. I got this material

1990
02:28:56,600 --> 02:28:59,879
from by reading a first I read it in Spanish

1991
02:29:00,520 --> 02:29:04,840
and then I found an English translation. Anarchist sites have

1992
02:29:05,959 --> 02:29:09,559
they're one of the anarchist websites are a key source

1993
02:29:09,920 --> 02:29:16,280
of really good information, especially about the the the real

1994
02:29:16,520 --> 02:29:22,840
anarchist stuff, what was actually going on in Catalonia. They

1995
02:29:22,920 --> 02:29:26,760
have translations of all of these books written by these

1996
02:29:27,319 --> 02:29:32,559
anarchist leaders who ran away after the war, talking about

1997
02:29:32,600 --> 02:29:35,600
what they were actually doing and a lot of their organization.

1998
02:29:36,799 --> 02:29:43,159
But Spanish, other Spanish folks have helped crack the code,

1999
02:29:43,280 --> 02:29:47,520
like some weapons collectors cracked the code on where the

2000
02:29:48,799 --> 02:29:53,239
five bomb, the grenade that the FAI created, where that

2001
02:29:53,399 --> 02:30:00,639
came from through a untranslated memoir of a Spanish slash

2002
02:30:00,799 --> 02:30:05,319
Argentinian anarchist who was involved. I think we talked about

2003
02:30:05,360 --> 02:30:09,440
him a little bit last time, but there's all kinds

2004
02:30:09,479 --> 02:30:13,079
of material that's that's coming to light. When you read

2005
02:30:13,239 --> 02:30:17,079
the libtard summary of this stuff, they always leave out

2006
02:30:17,280 --> 02:30:21,280
what the true believers will tell you completely openly. So

2007
02:30:21,440 --> 02:30:27,200
I completely advocate reading communist and anarchist material on any

2008
02:30:27,319 --> 02:30:29,680
subject touching on them, because they will just tell you

2009
02:30:30,239 --> 02:30:33,319
what their goals were, whereas if you read a summary,

2010
02:30:33,959 --> 02:30:39,920
you read a you know, a academic analysis of something,

2011
02:30:40,000 --> 02:30:46,559
they will not do that. So the FAI was the

2012
02:30:46,680 --> 02:30:52,319
militant wing of the CNT. The CNT was an anarchist

2013
02:30:52,440 --> 02:30:57,799
labor union slash political party. I mean they're anarchists obviously.

2014
02:30:58,559 --> 02:31:01,079
You know, you're going to have a labor union that

2015
02:31:01,200 --> 02:31:04,760
people join because they kind of feel like they have

2016
02:31:04,920 --> 02:31:08,120
to or you know, social pressure or whatever. But then

2017
02:31:08,159 --> 02:31:13,760
the true believers are ripe for joining, you know, more

2018
02:31:13,840 --> 02:31:18,239
militant organizations who actually want to see anarchism, you know,

2019
02:31:18,559 --> 02:31:22,280
in in their lifetime. And after the nineteen thirty four

2020
02:31:22,440 --> 02:31:27,799
Storian Uprising, and when the Spanish Republic cracked down on

2021
02:31:27,959 --> 02:31:30,399
that uprising because you have to when people are just

2022
02:31:30,479 --> 02:31:37,479
being murdered in the streets like aggressively, the the FAI

2023
02:31:38,000 --> 02:31:41,440
organized and they said, you know what, and I don't

2024
02:31:41,440 --> 02:31:43,760
have the quote, handy, there's a quote in this article,

2025
02:31:43,959 --> 02:31:51,120
but it's basically the same thing that an anarchist ANTIFA

2026
02:31:51,200 --> 02:31:56,680
guy told me in a I will not be specific

2027
02:31:56,719 --> 02:31:58,920
about what city it was in, in a in a

2028
02:31:59,079 --> 02:32:01,920
thing they were doing in a city when I happened

2029
02:32:02,000 --> 02:32:07,120
to be working downtown and kind of naive and considering

2030
02:32:07,200 --> 02:32:12,559
myself a libertarian with theoretical anarchist leanings that if they

2031
02:32:12,719 --> 02:32:17,399
start smashing windows and then the cops attack peaceful protesters,

2032
02:32:17,959 --> 02:32:21,399
that the people will rise up and overthrow the government,

2033
02:32:22,719 --> 02:32:28,040
just like spontaneously. And the FAI said, you know what,

2034
02:32:28,959 --> 02:32:33,120
you can't spontaneously be competent. It's like anything else. You

2035
02:32:33,280 --> 02:32:36,000
rise to the level of training that you have, so

2036
02:32:36,159 --> 02:32:40,520
you don't rise to the occasion right and be good.

2037
02:32:40,719 --> 02:32:43,000
So anyway, so what they did is they created a

2038
02:32:43,120 --> 02:32:47,399
cellular structure because they were illegal and outlawed, and for

2039
02:32:47,479 --> 02:32:51,760
their own protection, they operated and cells. And the idea

2040
02:32:51,959 --> 02:32:54,399
was that they would have a six man team, a

2041
02:32:54,479 --> 02:33:00,360
six man cell founded by and led by, not really led,

2042
02:33:00,399 --> 02:33:04,399
but organized and coordinated by the secretary. So the secretary

2043
02:33:05,840 --> 02:33:10,520
works with other people in the hierarchy, he organizes the

2044
02:33:10,600 --> 02:33:15,840
cadre he communicates and coordinates their training and their operations

2045
02:33:15,920 --> 02:33:20,399
and the intelligence that they gather. And the secretaries try

2046
02:33:20,440 --> 02:33:23,159
to create as many cadres as they can eventually once

2047
02:33:23,200 --> 02:33:24,120
they're up to the task.

2048
02:33:24,760 --> 02:33:24,879
Speaker 1: Uh.

2049
02:33:25,040 --> 02:33:27,280
Speaker 2: And then they also have a person and again this

2050
02:33:27,440 --> 02:33:30,159
is just a group of people who decide they want

2051
02:33:30,200 --> 02:33:33,639
to be part of an organization and to do something,

2052
02:33:33,760 --> 02:33:38,600
so like maybe lawfully legally, Let's say you have a

2053
02:33:39,920 --> 02:33:43,600
community watch, you know, in your in your neighborhood. Just

2054
02:33:43,639 --> 02:33:47,040
think about how this might be helpful for so you

2055
02:33:47,079 --> 02:33:49,760
can call the police about stuff. And then you have

2056
02:33:49,840 --> 02:33:53,040
a person who's what they call the police, the people investigator,

2057
02:33:53,760 --> 02:33:59,239
and so he identifies and documents basically enemies and what

2058
02:33:59,360 --> 02:34:02,360
you can find out about them. So the people in

2059
02:34:02,559 --> 02:34:12,319
their assigned precinct names, addresses, ideological affiliations, personal habits, details

2060
02:34:12,719 --> 02:34:20,680
their danger level. This would apply to military, police, clergy officials, capitalists, politicians,

2061
02:34:21,159 --> 02:34:24,719
you know, et cetera. And then there's a person who's

2062
02:34:24,760 --> 02:34:28,760
a building investigator. And so their job is to go

2063
02:34:29,120 --> 02:34:32,680
check out and learn about buildings that are in their zone.

2064
02:34:33,840 --> 02:34:38,719
And that's for tactical purposes, that's for well, the people

2065
02:34:38,799 --> 02:34:41,840
investigator determines that someone lives in this building, the building

2066
02:34:41,920 --> 02:34:45,959
investigator will go check the building out because maybe the

2067
02:34:46,159 --> 02:34:49,920
people investigator will have been seen following the guy or whatever. Right,

2068
02:34:50,399 --> 02:34:52,399
So what they then do is they write up like

2069
02:34:52,479 --> 02:34:56,879
who lives there, what stuff is in there, where's a

2070
02:34:56,920 --> 02:35:00,200
military barracks, where's a police station, where jails which is

2071
02:35:00,280 --> 02:35:05,479
and monasteries where you know, employers, wears, fortifications, things of

2072
02:35:05,520 --> 02:35:08,280
that nature. And then they have a team member who

2073
02:35:08,559 --> 02:35:15,920
gets trained in identifying and developing basically strategic areas in

2074
02:35:16,000 --> 02:35:17,959
the zone and how you would fight there if you

2075
02:35:18,079 --> 02:35:24,639
had to bridges, street intersections, underground passages, drain sewers, which

2076
02:35:24,719 --> 02:35:28,079
of these houses have flat roofs according to the building investigator,

2077
02:35:28,920 --> 02:35:30,639
how do you get from place to place to place

2078
02:35:30,760 --> 02:35:35,559
without being you know, on the street, etc. And then

2079
02:35:35,600 --> 02:35:38,120
you have a team member who checks out public works

2080
02:35:38,440 --> 02:35:44,440
like electricity, water where garages, you know, wears, tram depots,

2081
02:35:44,799 --> 02:35:48,719
wears the metro like check out the metro transport routes,

2082
02:35:48,920 --> 02:35:52,399
vulnerability to sabotage or seizure. And then finally you have

2083
02:35:52,440 --> 02:35:55,639
a team member whose main job is money, weapons and equipment,

2084
02:35:57,479 --> 02:36:01,479
stealing it, buying it, trading for it. Private homes with

2085
02:36:01,600 --> 02:36:05,959
weapons banks, loan offices, food and clothing, warehouses, et cetera.

2086
02:36:06,200 --> 02:36:08,680
And again this is from the point of view of

2087
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:14,680
anarchists in Spain in the nineteen thirties, but at the

2088
02:36:14,719 --> 02:36:19,159
same time it's interesting. So the idea is these people

2089
02:36:19,280 --> 02:36:25,959
get together and they train. They get trained by other

2090
02:36:26,040 --> 02:36:28,879
people in the organization who are specialists in these areas,

2091
02:36:29,280 --> 02:36:32,280
who will they will never interact with again in person,

2092
02:36:32,360 --> 02:36:36,399
because that's a security, you know, risk. And then they

2093
02:36:36,479 --> 02:36:38,200
get together with their group to train in hand to

2094
02:36:38,280 --> 02:36:42,799
hand combat, group tactics, weapons, propaganda, learning about special equipment,

2095
02:36:42,959 --> 02:36:47,120
learning medicine. When they start out, they learn about the

2096
02:36:47,200 --> 02:36:50,399
basic strategies and priorities for how they do their jobs

2097
02:36:50,479 --> 02:36:54,079
and how they work together. And then moving forward, they

2098
02:36:54,159 --> 02:36:58,719
share the information that they discover. Sometimes they'll work together

2099
02:36:59,120 --> 02:37:03,879
on certain and then they collect all that intelligence, they

2100
02:37:04,000 --> 02:37:08,040
send it up the chain. You don't leave it lying around,

2101
02:37:08,479 --> 02:37:11,000
you know, written in maps. You have to stash all

2102
02:37:11,079 --> 02:37:15,959
that stuff. And their job is to gather that intelligence

2103
02:37:16,399 --> 02:37:19,360
to help grow the organization with people who are reliable

2104
02:37:20,079 --> 02:37:24,159
that they can recommend to the secretary, who will then

2105
02:37:24,280 --> 02:37:26,879
arrange it for everyone. And then then they won't be

2106
02:37:26,959 --> 02:37:30,200
a part of it. So that there's less security risk there.

2107
02:37:30,639 --> 02:37:34,280
And then their real job is that when something kicks off,

2108
02:37:35,000 --> 02:37:39,360
they control their assigned district and the uprising. And that

2109
02:37:39,639 --> 02:37:43,479
is how they secured Barcelona, that is how they secured Valencia.

2110
02:37:43,879 --> 02:37:46,600
That's how they secured so many areas. Is that they

2111
02:37:46,680 --> 02:37:52,920
had trained and planned in advance. The Carlists who were

2112
02:37:52,959 --> 02:37:58,600
in those hardcore, heavily trained units did essentially the same thing,

2113
02:37:59,479 --> 02:38:05,120
but there was less of We don't have documented evidence

2114
02:38:05,200 --> 02:38:07,920
of exactly how they thought about it, but yes, they

2115
02:38:08,440 --> 02:38:13,600
secured their immediate areas first. They dealt with anarchists and

2116
02:38:13,680 --> 02:38:17,360
communists and their immediate areas first in the same fashion.

2117
02:38:17,879 --> 02:38:21,559
And I guarantee you, especially if you live in a

2118
02:38:21,719 --> 02:38:27,159
heavily leftist area, there are people thinking this way right now,

2119
02:38:27,440 --> 02:38:32,239
especially if you're in an unfortunate situation and you have

2120
02:38:32,559 --> 02:38:35,920
like a bunch of Antifa around you because you're near

2121
02:38:36,000 --> 02:38:40,440
a college or something like that, so be aware of that.

2122
02:38:42,840 --> 02:38:44,840
That completes my ted talk.

2123
02:38:49,639 --> 02:38:53,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh. I love that you ended on this

2124
02:38:53,399 --> 02:38:56,920
because it really goes to show that there there were

2125
02:38:57,000 --> 02:38:59,920
people on the left who were who were planning, who

2126
02:39:00,120 --> 02:39:05,879
were who were organized. It's and because most of the

2127
02:39:05,959 --> 02:39:09,120
anarchists were. I mean you could see it through the

2128
02:39:09,159 --> 02:39:13,280
books you read, yep, I mean they're anarchists they called.

2129
02:39:13,360 --> 02:39:17,440
I mean, I mean they really lean into that, didn't they.

2130
02:39:18,239 --> 02:39:19,840
Speaker 2: They very much did. Yes.

2131
02:39:20,559 --> 02:39:25,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like okay, well it's like and it's like Larbert,

2132
02:39:25,559 --> 02:39:28,559
it's like so Lalbert where it's like, okay, can't you

2133
02:39:28,639 --> 02:39:32,760
guys just realize what's going on here. You have to organize.

2134
02:39:32,879 --> 02:39:36,719
You have to if if we do this, we can

2135
02:39:36,799 --> 02:39:40,200
have you know, we can have this. But no, no,

2136
02:39:40,399 --> 02:39:43,879
they have to they have to hold to their principles.

2137
02:39:44,600 --> 02:39:46,040
And thank god they did.

2138
02:39:46,639 --> 02:39:50,040
Speaker 2: Yes exactly because they were extreme. Like I said, they

2139
02:39:50,040 --> 02:39:53,200
were extremely successful because this was a compromise that they

2140
02:39:53,319 --> 02:39:56,719
made in the uprising. And then the next compromise that

2141
02:39:56,920 --> 02:40:01,120
was made is that like the d Rudy column, who

2142
02:40:01,159 --> 02:40:06,440
were the the they came up out of this FAI group. Uh,

2143
02:40:06,520 --> 02:40:10,000
they were the hardened killers. They were the shock troops

2144
02:40:10,360 --> 02:40:15,719
who went up to Oregon to confront the carlist recutees.

2145
02:40:17,079 --> 02:40:20,799
Because up by like Zaragoza and stuff, where there were

2146
02:40:21,200 --> 02:40:26,399
there were a fair amount of anarchists CNT and cn

2147
02:40:26,399 --> 02:40:29,200
T f AI guys up in some of these like

2148
02:40:29,719 --> 02:40:34,200
slightly industrial areas and some of these larger cities and

2149
02:40:34,360 --> 02:40:38,600
Aragon in the in the interior, and they were rushing

2150
02:40:38,719 --> 02:40:42,840
up there because the Carlists were cracking down and taking

2151
02:40:42,879 --> 02:40:47,959
out because they knew who everybody was, right, So they

2152
02:40:48,719 --> 02:40:54,159
the Druti column were the first group of the anarchists

2153
02:40:54,479 --> 02:40:59,200
to say and their terminology is always interesting, is that

2154
02:40:59,600 --> 02:41:02,520
they would say, we have to put the revolution on hold.

2155
02:41:03,799 --> 02:41:06,680
And that was their thinking, is that you think that

2156
02:41:07,079 --> 02:41:10,760
the fighting would be the revolution. To them, the revolution

2157
02:41:11,600 --> 02:41:15,600
was going around and murdering the like regular people and

2158
02:41:15,719 --> 02:41:21,120
destroying the churches and like restructuring the way you know,

2159
02:41:21,719 --> 02:41:24,479
work happens and stuff like that. To them, that was

2160
02:41:24,559 --> 02:41:28,159
the revolution. But they put the revolution on hold to

2161
02:41:28,360 --> 02:41:33,200
fight the war, and they allied with the communists and

2162
02:41:33,399 --> 02:41:39,600
ultimately came under the leadership of the communists. They most

2163
02:41:39,680 --> 02:41:44,440
of them. So Deruti actually got killed in the defense

2164
02:41:44,559 --> 02:41:50,360
of Madrid in nineteen thirty six because they went up

2165
02:41:50,360 --> 02:41:54,440
to Oregon. That front stabilized and after like two months,

2166
02:41:54,799 --> 02:41:59,280
when the Army of Africa and the Legion you know,

2167
02:41:59,440 --> 02:42:04,879
Franco were headed that way, they made a mad dash

2168
02:42:05,520 --> 02:42:10,200
to get to Madrid to defend it, and Derudy got killed.

2169
02:42:11,159 --> 02:42:14,079
They have these conspiracies about it. But the long and

2170
02:42:14,159 --> 02:42:16,719
the short is is he said, we're gonna work with

2171
02:42:16,799 --> 02:42:20,639
the communists until the war is over. And what did

2172
02:42:20,639 --> 02:42:24,360
the communists do is they killed the hardcore political the

2173
02:42:24,440 --> 02:42:29,719
best leaders from among the anarchists, so that they could

2174
02:42:29,760 --> 02:42:34,440
consolidate their own control over the republics.

2175
02:42:34,520 --> 02:42:40,000
Speaker 1: So but wow, what a shot learned that. Yeah, they

2176
02:42:40,000 --> 02:42:42,520
couldn't have learned that from nineteen seventeen, right now, Yeah,

2177
02:42:42,840 --> 02:42:45,799
that's exactly what they did. That's exactly what they did.

2178
02:42:46,879 --> 02:42:54,760
Speaker 2: And these quote unquote people, you can't allie with someone

2179
02:42:55,520 --> 02:42:58,559
who wants to kill you. And that's the difference the

2180
02:42:58,760 --> 02:43:03,879
right wingers. They had ideas that were different, but they

2181
02:43:04,000 --> 02:43:06,479
didn't hate each other. And this is something you have

2182
02:43:06,639 --> 02:43:10,159
talked about a lot, which I think is probably like

2183
02:43:10,399 --> 02:43:12,799
one of the most important points that you have made

2184
02:43:13,559 --> 02:43:17,200
is Okay, you don't have to agree with someone in

2185
02:43:17,360 --> 02:43:21,680
power about everything, but if they don't hate you, they're

2186
02:43:21,879 --> 02:43:24,959
much better than someone who hates you. And so to

2187
02:43:26,120 --> 02:43:31,760
to not look at the landscape and say, here's my choices,

2188
02:43:32,920 --> 02:43:37,440
and if I go with group A, I have a

2189
02:43:37,600 --> 02:43:42,200
chance to have a say. And in fact, as things radicalize,

2190
02:43:42,920 --> 02:43:48,719
as everybody gets, as everything gets crazier, I'm going to

2191
02:43:48,760 --> 02:43:55,079
seem pretty reasonable to people who right now like they

2192
02:43:55,840 --> 02:43:58,680
they certainly wouldn't agree with me on these things, but

2193
02:43:58,799 --> 02:44:03,680
they don't hate me fund mentally. You have options there.

2194
02:44:03,840 --> 02:44:07,360
You don't have options with people who want to destroy you,

2195
02:44:08,200 --> 02:44:11,920
who want to torture you, who want you to suffer,

2196
02:44:13,079 --> 02:44:17,120
who want you to be humiliated. You cannot negotiate with

2197
02:44:17,239 --> 02:44:20,239
those people, and you can't work with them. Yeah, and

2198
02:44:20,319 --> 02:44:24,399
there's nothing that you get, like you don't get like

2199
02:44:24,840 --> 02:44:31,239
Hitler doesn't come back. If you support the guy who

2200
02:44:32,360 --> 02:44:36,079
blows horses or whatever his name is, I can't think

2201
02:44:36,079 --> 02:44:38,159
of his name. He's going to be gone in a

2202
02:44:38,239 --> 02:44:40,559
couple of weeks anyway, I can't. I mean, I don't

2203
02:44:40,600 --> 02:44:43,079
know that they might just be throwing in the towel

2204
02:44:43,120 --> 02:44:45,239
on this one, but like this is going to be

2205
02:44:45,360 --> 02:44:47,000
hilarious when they go to Chicago.

2206
02:44:49,079 --> 02:44:52,600
Speaker 1: That's wild. You know. Charles Haywood said something the other

2207
02:44:52,799 --> 02:44:56,040
night on he was on with Buck Johnson. He was

2208
02:44:56,079 --> 02:45:00,840
on Buck Johnson's show, and Uck was talking to him

2209
02:45:00,840 --> 02:45:03,520
about the PayPal mafia and everything stuff that I've been

2210
02:45:03,559 --> 02:45:06,959
talking about, you know, and I've said and I've said,

2211
02:45:06,959 --> 02:45:09,840
you know, they're not our guys, and you know, but

2212
02:45:09,959 --> 02:45:16,040
they don't hate us. And I really like a lot

2213
02:45:16,319 --> 02:45:18,559
a lot of what Heywood says. I've met him. He's

2214
02:45:18,600 --> 02:45:22,239
a good I think he's a good man. He said,

2215
02:45:23,040 --> 02:45:27,440
if they are serious about defeating this enemy that they

2216
02:45:27,479 --> 02:45:29,680
want to take on, yeah, they're gonna have to They're

2217
02:45:29,680 --> 02:45:33,280
gonna have to become our guys. Yes, yes, If they

2218
02:45:33,280 --> 02:45:35,399
don't become our guys, they're going to lose. And then

2219
02:45:36,079 --> 02:45:38,120
and then what does that mean about me, you know,

2220
02:45:38,399 --> 02:45:40,799
saying that, hey, maybe we should look at these guys

2221
02:45:40,879 --> 02:45:44,360
and maybe we shouldn't counter signal them. I'll just say

2222
02:45:44,399 --> 02:45:47,200
I was wrong. I was wrong. Yeah, they you know,

2223
02:45:47,280 --> 02:45:48,840
they tried. They didn't know what they were in for.

2224
02:45:50,040 --> 02:45:53,120
I was wrong. I still told you to build locally.

2225
02:45:53,319 --> 02:45:56,040
I still told you to you know, make your income mobile.

2226
02:45:56,079 --> 02:45:59,200
I still told you to plant a garden. I never

2227
02:45:59,280 --> 02:46:01,520
told you that they were coming to save us. But

2228
02:46:02,520 --> 02:46:05,200
if they are, if they want to defeat the enemy

2229
02:46:05,920 --> 02:46:09,000
that that they're talking about defeating, they're going to have

2230
02:46:09,079 --> 02:46:09,840
to become our guys.

2231
02:46:10,120 --> 02:46:12,360
Speaker 2: If you want to, Yeah, you have to go to

2232
02:46:12,479 --> 02:46:15,399
war with the army. You have to defeat an enemy.

2233
02:46:18,479 --> 02:46:23,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, someone said a long time ago, may

2234
02:46:23,479 --> 02:46:28,799
you live in interesting times? And yes, we unfortunately certainly do,

2235
02:46:29,440 --> 02:46:33,040
but we know what comes after interesting times. So yes,

2236
02:46:35,680 --> 02:46:39,239
let's let's cut this and uh, you know, to come

2237
02:46:39,319 --> 02:46:42,600
back soon and we'll talk about something new. But remind,

2238
02:46:43,239 --> 02:46:45,479
remind people where they can find everything, including I had

2239
02:46:45,520 --> 02:46:47,719
somebody on Facebook who was asking for your merchant the

2240
02:46:47,760 --> 02:46:49,440
other day. So if you had any merch sales, it

2241
02:46:49,479 --> 02:46:52,200
may have been coming from Facebook and you sharing your links. Cool?

2242
02:46:52,319 --> 02:46:57,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, Carl Doll dot substack dot com is

2243
02:46:57,360 --> 02:46:59,760
where you can see most of my writing. I have

2244
02:46:59,840 --> 02:47:04,639
a sample the first chapter of my newest book, Faction

2245
02:47:04,760 --> 02:47:09,479
with the Crusaders. I'm gonna to appease my friends in

2246
02:47:09,600 --> 02:47:13,040
the firearms autist community. I'm going to do an article

2247
02:47:13,040 --> 02:47:15,799
pretty soon about the books, excuse me, the guns of

2248
02:47:16,920 --> 02:47:19,959
the weapons of my first book, Faction. And I think

2249
02:47:20,479 --> 02:47:25,360
I owe Twitter a thread on that. My old social

2250
02:47:25,479 --> 02:47:31,639
media manager got his account banned in January of twenty

2251
02:47:31,760 --> 02:47:35,520
twenty one for some reason, so I have to put

2252
02:47:35,520 --> 02:47:38,280
a fresh thing up there now that I myself am

2253
02:47:38,319 --> 02:47:43,719
in control of my own account. Yeah, books are on Amazon,

2254
02:47:44,399 --> 02:47:49,280
but I also have links to those extensively from all

2255
02:47:49,360 --> 02:47:53,280
those articles and everything in my sub stack, and then

2256
02:47:53,319 --> 02:47:56,440
also to my merch, my spicy shirts and stuff like that.

2257
02:47:56,920 --> 02:47:59,799
Main thing is I the only way that this is

2258
02:48:00,040 --> 02:48:03,520
only monetized for me is through book sales and the

2259
02:48:03,680 --> 02:48:07,360
and the shirts and stuff. I was thinking of monetizing

2260
02:48:07,440 --> 02:48:10,840
my substack. I've had like six or seven people offer

2261
02:48:11,200 --> 02:48:13,920
to pay for that, and I'm like, just just by book,

2262
02:48:14,079 --> 02:48:18,719
give book two friend, things like that. That's my main thing.

2263
02:48:18,840 --> 02:48:21,559
Maybe I should expand it, but that's that's how I'm

2264
02:48:21,600 --> 02:48:23,600
doing it. And thanks again.

2265
02:48:24,360 --> 02:48:26,280
Speaker 1: I'll include all the links like I did last time.

2266
02:48:26,719 --> 02:48:28,000
Thanks a lot, Carl appreciate it.

2267
02:48:28,319 --> 02:48:28,799
Speaker 2: Thanks Pete.

2268
02:48:30,000 --> 02:48:33,280
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone back to the Peak cononas show.

2269
02:48:34,239 --> 02:48:37,280
Carl Dolls back. We're going to keep talking about the

2270
02:48:37,319 --> 02:48:40,399
Spanish Civil War. Hey doing, Carl doing well?

2271
02:48:40,440 --> 02:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Thanks Pete.

2272
02:48:43,159 --> 02:48:46,360
Speaker 1: All right, So I thought we should follow up the

2273
02:48:46,440 --> 02:48:51,399
last episode we did, which was much talked about how

2274
02:48:51,440 --> 02:48:56,159
the right wing factions came together, but maybe a little

2275
02:48:56,280 --> 02:48:59,959
less serious this time and like something that I really

2276
02:49:00,479 --> 02:49:04,680
enjoyed talking about. So I reached out to you and said, hey,

2277
02:49:05,559 --> 02:49:08,719
I know that you're obsessed with the guns of the

2278
02:49:08,799 --> 02:49:12,799
Spanish Civil War, So why don't we talk, well, why

2279
02:49:12,840 --> 02:49:16,760
don't we talk about them? So yeah, when you, uh,

2280
02:49:17,040 --> 02:49:19,559
when you started going down the Spanish Civil War route,

2281
02:49:19,680 --> 02:49:23,079
where you had you already looked into the guns or

2282
02:49:23,200 --> 02:49:24,920
was this just stuff you picked up as you went along.

2283
02:49:25,799 --> 02:49:30,239
Speaker 2: I'd looked into it a fair bit. I'm an old

2284
02:49:30,600 --> 02:49:34,840
and so in the nineties there were Astra four hundreds

2285
02:49:34,840 --> 02:49:39,040
all over the place, and you know, Spanish firearms were

2286
02:49:39,280 --> 02:49:42,440
very affordable well into the nineties, and then all the

2287
02:49:42,559 --> 02:49:46,120
companies folded, all the I should say, all the commercial

2288
02:49:46,840 --> 02:49:50,879
manufacturers that were exporting to the US, which were generally

2289
02:49:51,000 --> 02:49:54,760
high quality, although there was some you know, cheap, you know,

2290
02:49:55,200 --> 02:49:59,440
minim minimal quality required stuff as well. And so I

2291
02:49:59,559 --> 02:50:04,920
was always interested in guns and small arms, and so

2292
02:50:05,079 --> 02:50:08,440
I was well aware of that without having you know,

2293
02:50:09,479 --> 02:50:12,479
really gotten into the meat and potatoes of the war,

2294
02:50:12,719 --> 02:50:16,520
and you know, other stuff would percolate up. So a

2295
02:50:16,600 --> 02:50:18,920
lot of it comes through in the work that I've

2296
02:50:19,000 --> 02:50:23,159
done and that I've published. But I also enjoy writing

2297
02:50:23,239 --> 02:50:28,760
little articles and threads on the topic as well. So yeah,

2298
02:50:28,760 --> 02:50:32,360
I put my you know, thinking cap on and said,

2299
02:50:32,559 --> 02:50:36,159
let's focus as much as we can on small arms

2300
02:50:36,920 --> 02:50:42,719
of the Spanish Civil War and really talking about you know,

2301
02:50:42,840 --> 02:50:47,000
really focusing on the Spanish like domestic weapons, but also

2302
02:50:47,120 --> 02:50:50,079
the fact that like how the militias got weapons, and

2303
02:50:50,200 --> 02:50:54,760
then the post July nineteen thirty six arm packages of

2304
02:50:54,879 --> 02:50:57,840
the left, so the stuff that came from the Soviet

2305
02:50:57,959 --> 02:51:02,159
Union in France, and then their commercial commercial areas mostly

2306
02:51:02,239 --> 02:51:06,399
focusing like almost entirely on individual weapons. But I did

2307
02:51:06,440 --> 02:51:08,399
throw on some notes about some game changers.

2308
02:51:08,520 --> 02:51:13,159
Speaker 1: So cool. All right, you have something on the screen

2309
02:51:13,200 --> 02:51:15,559
you want me to share or do you want to

2310
02:51:16,120 --> 02:51:20,000
It's ready, It's ready to go both there you go. Boom,

2311
02:51:20,200 --> 02:51:20,760
Thank you, sir.

2312
02:51:21,040 --> 02:51:26,840
Speaker 2: So just reiterating Carl dol uh sub Stack two, book

2313
02:51:27,520 --> 02:51:31,879
by book middle one. I had some people notice and say, hey,

2314
02:51:32,399 --> 02:51:35,879
is that Owen Broadcast, And yes, Owen Broadcast did do

2315
02:51:36,040 --> 02:51:38,639
the the cover of my first novel, Faction. And then

2316
02:51:39,000 --> 02:51:42,360
Bradley Burris is a very talented painter who did the

2317
02:51:43,040 --> 02:51:46,200
portrait of the main character on the right hand side,

2318
02:51:46,399 --> 02:51:50,520
a looking war weary by the time he's with the

2319
02:51:50,680 --> 02:51:57,319
Spanish Legion in faction with the Crusaders. So uh, I'm

2320
02:51:57,440 --> 02:52:03,280
gonna kind of take this from a couple angles. First

2321
02:52:03,319 --> 02:52:06,760
of all, this is an overview of the basic presentation.

2322
02:52:07,079 --> 02:52:10,239
So the weaponry of the Spanish Civil War falls into

2323
02:52:10,959 --> 02:52:15,920
a couple of buckets, and those buckets are Spanish military

2324
02:52:16,040 --> 02:52:22,799
or national law enforcement arms, militia acquisitions, and then post

2325
02:52:23,239 --> 02:52:26,719
July nineteen thirty six arms packages, and again, like I said,

2326
02:52:27,200 --> 02:52:29,840
we'll focus on what came in via the Soviet Union

2327
02:52:29,920 --> 02:52:38,239
in France and which includes kind of like commercial transfer

2328
02:52:38,360 --> 02:52:45,200
from arms dealers. I'm kind of light on text in

2329
02:52:45,319 --> 02:52:48,000
this one, and I'm gonna be referring to some notes

2330
02:52:48,079 --> 02:52:50,840
off screen because if we tried to cover everything would

2331
02:52:50,879 --> 02:52:56,319
be just exhausting. So in the background is a beautiful

2332
02:52:56,760 --> 02:53:03,600
Astra nine hundred handle copy made to an extremely high

2333
02:53:05,360 --> 02:53:08,760
standard of finish, so we'll be able to talk a

2334
02:53:08,799 --> 02:53:13,600
little more about that weapon. There weren't tons in the war,

2335
02:53:13,760 --> 02:53:18,440
but there were there were thousands of them utilized, but

2336
02:53:18,600 --> 02:53:22,200
it wasn't like a primary issue weapon. We'll get into

2337
02:53:22,239 --> 02:53:26,239
some of the details on that here shortly. So I'm

2338
02:53:26,239 --> 02:53:28,920
going to start out with a very very very simple,

2339
02:53:29,079 --> 02:53:34,360
high level overview of the Spanish domestic arms industry, specifically

2340
02:53:34,479 --> 02:53:36,200
excluding military arsenals.

2341
02:53:36,239 --> 02:53:36,399
Speaker 1: Here.

2342
02:53:36,440 --> 02:53:40,799
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the military issue weapons later, and the

2343
02:53:40,920 --> 02:53:46,760
government also you know, including law enforcement weapons as well.

2344
02:53:47,239 --> 02:53:50,000
But we're really going to dive into like the Basque

2345
02:53:50,159 --> 02:53:55,399
Country arms manufacturers because they were a huge player in

2346
02:53:55,559 --> 02:54:02,000
this war, and then the artisanal weapons. So again this

2347
02:54:02,200 --> 02:54:06,239
is fairly high level. There's a ton of information online

2348
02:54:06,319 --> 02:54:10,760
on this stuff, but it's dispersed. I talk a lot

2349
02:54:10,840 --> 02:54:13,879
about it in faction with the Crusaders as part of

2350
02:54:13,959 --> 02:54:17,360
the narrative, the way that it flows nicely. But there's

2351
02:54:17,399 --> 02:54:20,520
some good material. I'll put some I'll do a thread

2352
02:54:20,600 --> 02:54:27,040
today with with some links to interesting information. So the sorry,

2353
02:54:28,239 --> 02:54:32,799
that's that cool? Oh okay, cool. So the Spanish arms

2354
02:54:32,840 --> 02:54:39,840
industry is very interesting. This is a photograph from Vestigui Edmanos,

2355
02:54:41,000 --> 02:54:46,319
which was a manufacturer and Eyebar and if you look

2356
02:54:46,399 --> 02:54:50,319
closely you'll see that these all look like broom handle mousers.

2357
02:54:51,040 --> 02:54:55,120
So the Spanish arms industry has been around for a

2358
02:54:55,280 --> 02:55:01,799
very long time, especially up in the Basque Country, centered

2359
02:55:01,840 --> 02:55:08,000
in Ibar and Wernica. For many centuries they were largely

2360
02:55:08,200 --> 02:55:12,360
export focused. Of course, there's a domestic industry, you know,

2361
02:55:13,159 --> 02:55:18,399
arming people locally. The the Carlists got a lot of

2362
02:55:18,440 --> 02:55:24,159
their arms through like sneaky diversions of weapons coming out

2363
02:55:24,200 --> 02:55:26,680
of these factories for a long time and right before

2364
02:55:26,719 --> 02:55:32,600
the Spanish Civil War, but largely export focused, so it's

2365
02:55:32,719 --> 02:55:38,799
really common for late nineteenth century, especially in the United States.

2366
02:55:38,879 --> 02:55:41,360
There's some older stuff. Most of it went to Europe

2367
02:55:42,079 --> 02:55:46,200
and over in like Asia and Central America. But in

2368
02:55:46,319 --> 02:55:50,760
America and Canada and the UK you will find a

2369
02:55:50,840 --> 02:55:58,200
lot of Spanish copies of different weapons, and a lot

2370
02:55:58,280 --> 02:56:00,799
of times they were made on car on tract for

2371
02:56:01,200 --> 02:56:06,319
say the British government or the French government. There's also

2372
02:56:06,479 --> 02:56:10,200
just straight commercial stuff, and so the idea is all

2373
02:56:10,520 --> 02:56:13,600
this kind of like a cottage industry model, where a

2374
02:56:13,680 --> 02:56:19,399
whole bunch of different suppliers and manufactures all over Basque Country,

2375
02:56:19,479 --> 02:56:23,600
but mostly concentrated in these river valleys where they had

2376
02:56:23,639 --> 02:56:27,319
a lot of power and steel was coming out of

2377
02:56:27,879 --> 02:56:32,920
the mines, or it was being brought over from the

2378
02:56:33,079 --> 02:56:42,120
northwest of Spain like Asturias, over into Basque Country for manufacturing,

2379
02:56:42,799 --> 02:56:46,040
and so huge industry for a really long time. I'll

2380
02:56:46,079 --> 02:56:52,200
throw out some names, Yama and Star Astra. Those are separate.

2381
02:56:52,319 --> 02:56:55,639
One company named Star, one called Astra. I know, go figure.

2382
02:56:56,000 --> 02:57:01,000
Astra means Star in Spanish, but anyway, and lots of

2383
02:57:01,079 --> 02:57:07,040
little family companies that would just be building weapons, copying weapons,

2384
02:57:07,120 --> 02:57:11,000
doing some original designs, some of it very innovative, and

2385
02:57:11,200 --> 02:57:16,040
just putting them out there. And generally their commercial stuff

2386
02:57:16,159 --> 02:57:20,879
would be available for offer for less than you know,

2387
02:57:21,000 --> 02:57:25,360
the commonly manufactured stuff from like say FN or you

2388
02:57:25,440 --> 02:57:28,159
know American manufacturers or what have you. So that was

2389
02:57:28,239 --> 02:57:31,920
their niche. They would also make whatever was popular and

2390
02:57:31,959 --> 02:57:34,280
they would be able to turn it around really quickly.

2391
02:57:34,399 --> 02:57:38,280
We'll get into some examples of that here shortly. But

2392
02:57:39,600 --> 02:57:44,159
one of the really kind of big influences on the

2393
02:57:44,360 --> 02:57:49,000
relevance of the Basque country manufacturers in Spain as it

2394
02:57:49,079 --> 02:57:52,399
came to arms was a deal that went down in

2395
02:57:52,559 --> 02:57:58,079
nineteen fifty between the French government and an Eyebar arms company,

2396
02:57:58,239 --> 02:58:06,920
Gabilondo e Uresti, which became Yama or Lama, to produce

2397
02:58:07,000 --> 02:58:11,639
a thirty two acp pistol for trench warfare. So there's

2398
02:58:11,680 --> 02:58:14,440
an image of it behind here, and you'll notice that

2399
02:58:15,200 --> 02:58:19,040
proportionally it looks more like something that you're starting to

2400
02:58:19,120 --> 02:58:22,959
see now with modern weapons, where you'll have a full

2401
02:58:23,040 --> 02:58:27,280
sized grip and a slightly shorter muzzle for concealed carry

2402
02:58:27,360 --> 02:58:32,600
purposes or just ease of carry while giving a full grip, right,

2403
02:58:32,840 --> 02:58:36,040
So a lot of times these thirty two automatics will,

2404
02:58:36,280 --> 02:58:39,319
you know, you'll have two fingers on it, and your

2405
02:58:39,360 --> 02:58:41,360
pinky will be kind of hanging off, and you'll have

2406
02:58:41,479 --> 02:58:45,959
a little pinky extension on a magazine or something like that.

2407
02:58:47,479 --> 02:58:53,159
These guys, these brothers and friends, who only employed a

2408
02:58:53,200 --> 02:58:57,520
couple dozen people at the time, made this design that

2409
02:58:57,920 --> 02:59:04,799
the French government, who were desperately needing handguns for World

2410
02:59:04,840 --> 02:59:09,559
War One, because in trench warfare, the old model where

2411
02:59:09,959 --> 02:59:14,959
you would have your armies and officers and maybe NCOs

2412
02:59:15,000 --> 02:59:17,200
would have handguns, and it was mostly a symbol of

2413
02:59:17,399 --> 02:59:20,680
rank and authority as well as to enforce discipline. Right,

2414
02:59:20,799 --> 02:59:25,040
the handgun was as much for using it on your

2415
02:59:25,079 --> 02:59:29,319
own troops or like putting down horses and stuff as

2416
02:59:29,399 --> 02:59:34,479
it was for actual combat. So they really needed everything

2417
02:59:34,559 --> 02:59:38,440
that they could get their hands on for World War One,

2418
02:59:38,719 --> 02:59:43,319
and so the French began ordering in mass numbers. So

2419
02:59:44,200 --> 02:59:50,319
the first deal with Gabelando e Ust was ten thousand

2420
02:59:50,440 --> 02:59:54,200
pistols a month, and then it became twenty thousand, and

2421
02:59:54,280 --> 02:59:58,920
then it became fifty thousand, and so they kind of

2422
02:59:59,280 --> 03:00:02,000
threw their hands up and came back with an amendment

2423
03:00:02,120 --> 03:00:05,719
to this deal and said, as long as we are

2424
03:00:06,000 --> 03:00:11,639
doing quality control, and you know, our plan is to

2425
03:00:11,799 --> 03:00:17,360
meet this is to farm out the manufacture of these

2426
03:00:17,440 --> 03:00:22,239
weapons to subcontractors. Okay. So they started out, you know,

2427
03:00:22,399 --> 03:00:27,159
with this acceptance, with like five subcontractors, and it eventually

2428
03:00:27,280 --> 03:00:33,840
became dozens because what happened was these individual subcontractors would

2429
03:00:33,959 --> 03:00:39,440
sub out like you know, trigger action components, you know,

2430
03:00:39,520 --> 03:00:41,840
while they focused on the slide in the frame, or

2431
03:00:41,920 --> 03:00:44,319
they would have different people doing the barrels, or they

2432
03:00:44,360 --> 03:00:46,719
would do the barrels and then do the rest. So

2433
03:00:46,879 --> 03:00:50,319
it became dozens and dozens and dozens of variants of

2434
03:00:50,440 --> 03:00:53,600
these weapons. These were all in the days of hand

2435
03:00:53,719 --> 03:00:58,760
fitted weapons, and one of the problems with that is

2436
03:00:58,920 --> 03:01:04,040
that a pistol be perfectly reliable with its issue magazine,

2437
03:01:04,159 --> 03:01:07,000
or at least the magazine that was made for it,

2438
03:01:07,399 --> 03:01:11,520
but once it gets into the military system, you have

2439
03:01:11,680 --> 03:01:16,319
all these different pieces. And one of the old issues

2440
03:01:16,360 --> 03:01:21,520
with reliability of semi auomatic handguns as well as semi

2441
03:01:21,959 --> 03:01:25,840
automatics in general, was the magazine. Right, Like, the number

2442
03:01:25,879 --> 03:01:28,239
one thing that you'll find with older guns is that

2443
03:01:29,040 --> 03:01:31,879
the gun might be great, but like you have issues

2444
03:01:31,920 --> 03:01:35,520
with magazines and like aftermarket magazines don't really work, or

2445
03:01:35,559 --> 03:01:39,360
you have to handfit every magazine, you adjust the feed lips,

2446
03:01:39,399 --> 03:01:44,840
all this stuff to get it to be completely reliable.

2447
03:01:45,159 --> 03:01:50,920
So that's where some of the reputation issues came with

2448
03:01:51,079 --> 03:01:53,920
these pistols. And then there were also some things like

2449
03:01:54,040 --> 03:01:58,479
problems with the steel, you know, specifically around the metallurgy.

2450
03:01:58,520 --> 03:02:01,559
They wouldn't be hardened properly. They were using cheap materials

2451
03:02:01,760 --> 03:02:04,079
because they're just like, hey, these are all going overseas

2452
03:02:05,040 --> 03:02:08,040
and we get paid the same, so let's see what

2453
03:02:08,159 --> 03:02:11,879
we can get away with. So anyway, they eventually, you know,

2454
03:02:12,079 --> 03:02:16,239
through this system, over seven hundred and fifty thousand of

2455
03:02:16,360 --> 03:02:22,040
these were made specifically to this ruby format and shipped

2456
03:02:22,120 --> 03:02:24,600
to France. Some of them went to Finland too, and

2457
03:02:24,680 --> 03:02:27,639
I think the Russian the Russians got some as well.

2458
03:02:29,600 --> 03:02:32,479
And at this point Spain is like flooded with not

2459
03:02:32,639 --> 03:02:37,079
only thirty two ACP handguns seven sixty five millimeter, but

2460
03:02:37,479 --> 03:02:41,639
also people who can make these. So when the war ends,

2461
03:02:43,239 --> 03:02:46,239
you know, this boom kind of comes to an end,

2462
03:02:46,479 --> 03:02:48,840
and then all these manufacturers are like, what are we

2463
03:02:48,959 --> 03:02:52,760
going to do? We have all these now highly skilled

2464
03:02:53,920 --> 03:02:59,079
and let you know makers, and then you know these factories.

2465
03:02:59,120 --> 03:03:01,719
So like let's this picture again, that's a lot of guys.

2466
03:03:02,399 --> 03:03:06,079
They're making stuff to a very high standard. They have

2467
03:03:06,200 --> 03:03:10,760
all this equipment for making stocks and doing barrels and

2468
03:03:10,840 --> 03:03:14,920
all the subcomponents and all that. They need jobs, they

2469
03:03:15,000 --> 03:03:22,280
need market, right, the market will find a way. So China,

2470
03:03:24,399 --> 03:03:29,239
China is in its warlord era in the nineteen twenties, right,

2471
03:03:29,559 --> 03:03:33,600
So I'm not gonna do charts and graphs of the

2472
03:03:33,719 --> 03:03:39,719
whole story behind this, but China is entering this period

2473
03:03:39,920 --> 03:03:45,879
of you know struggle where between the their nationalists and

2474
03:03:46,879 --> 03:03:51,239
all the kind of countryside little warlords and and a

2475
03:03:51,319 --> 03:03:56,639
lot of it is it's not only regional, but it's

2476
03:03:56,719 --> 03:03:59,319
kind of ethnic. If you really know anything about China,

2477
03:03:59,559 --> 03:04:02,120
they'll have this big bucket where they call everyone han.

2478
03:04:02,319 --> 03:04:05,639
But when you drink excuse me, when you speak different languages,

2479
03:04:06,239 --> 03:04:09,840
when you're scattered all over this vast country, you come

2480
03:04:09,959 --> 03:04:15,000
from different kind of ethnic stuff because of history, and

2481
03:04:15,120 --> 03:04:18,559
you have these supposed ethnic minorities. But it's like literally,

2482
03:04:19,200 --> 03:04:23,959
you know, thirty million people, they're sub nations, right, they're

2483
03:04:24,000 --> 03:04:28,920
all kind of vying for autonomy. You know, there's there's

2484
03:04:29,000 --> 03:04:33,559
that whole autonomy discussion again Pete, as well as just

2485
03:04:33,639 --> 03:04:37,040
kind of control over their areas and you know, really

2486
03:04:37,079 --> 03:04:42,959
they're they're futures. So this is a huge market for

2487
03:04:43,239 --> 03:04:46,920
the Spanish arms manufacturers as well as you know, the

2488
03:04:47,000 --> 03:04:47,959
rest of the world.

2489
03:04:48,159 --> 03:04:48,280
Speaker 1: Right.

2490
03:04:48,719 --> 03:04:51,600
Speaker 2: So in this picture you'll see in the bottom left

2491
03:04:52,000 --> 03:04:57,280
you'll see these guys they have these pouches that are

2492
03:04:57,440 --> 03:05:03,079
for mouser broom handles for stripper clips or magazines. At

2493
03:05:03,120 --> 03:05:04,959
this point it's going to be stripper clips. You'll see

2494
03:05:05,000 --> 03:05:08,399
almost all these guys have a mouser broom handle in

2495
03:05:08,520 --> 03:05:13,239
it's wooden holster on their belt. And then down here

2496
03:05:13,399 --> 03:05:16,159
this is really interesting. You'll notice these light machine guns.

2497
03:05:16,239 --> 03:05:21,079
These are Swiss light machine guns that were very very

2498
03:05:21,159 --> 03:05:25,920
advanced for the time they make the baar, you know,

2499
03:05:26,040 --> 03:05:30,040
the American bar light machine gun or automatic rifle rather

2500
03:05:30,479 --> 03:05:35,639
look kind of simple and not not super robust. So

2501
03:05:37,440 --> 03:05:41,799
the industry of the world is cranking out advanced weapons

2502
03:05:42,079 --> 03:05:45,959
in this lull after World War One, where you know,

2503
03:05:46,479 --> 03:05:50,879
some European countries are starting to arm up, and European

2504
03:05:50,920 --> 03:05:54,280
countries are starting to think in terms of having like

2505
03:05:54,520 --> 03:06:01,159
next generation weapons after World War One, and basically China

2506
03:06:01,520 --> 03:06:06,120
and its insatiable appetite for advanced weapons are giving them

2507
03:06:06,159 --> 03:06:09,520
a huge market as well as you know, an area

2508
03:06:09,639 --> 03:06:13,200
to try all these out and see see what works.

2509
03:06:14,000 --> 03:06:17,000
You'll also notice here on the right hand side, this

2510
03:06:17,159 --> 03:06:19,840
is actually from World War two, but you'll see all

2511
03:06:19,920 --> 03:06:25,879
these Chinese fellows with broom handle mousers. Some of them

2512
03:06:25,920 --> 03:06:28,440
are semi ato, some of them are machine pistols. We

2513
03:06:28,520 --> 03:06:31,479
don't really have a way of knowing, but looking at

2514
03:06:31,520 --> 03:06:36,079
their gear in the pouches, those appear to be removable

2515
03:06:36,200 --> 03:06:41,239
magazines of twenty rounds plus some other stuff. They can

2516
03:06:41,360 --> 03:06:44,319
top off their one or two magazines they have with

2517
03:06:44,440 --> 03:06:47,760
stripper clips through the stripper clip guide in the bolt,

2518
03:06:48,239 --> 03:06:52,680
you know, on top of the weapon. They're guarding these

2519
03:06:53,360 --> 03:06:57,920
Japanese fellows who have surrendered and at this point, so

2520
03:06:58,079 --> 03:07:04,079
that's decades of familiarity with the broom handle pistols and

2521
03:07:04,239 --> 03:07:09,680
machine pistols. Up here you'll see an astra with Chinese

2522
03:07:09,799 --> 03:07:16,079
markings on it on a machine pistol copy of the

2523
03:07:16,159 --> 03:07:20,399
broom handle that was that was made in Spain. So

2524
03:07:21,280 --> 03:07:24,760
the Spanish are sending because here's here's the key thing

2525
03:07:24,840 --> 03:07:26,760
to keep in mind you're seeing a lot of advanced

2526
03:07:26,840 --> 03:07:33,159
weapons down here. Japan is controlling access to the Chinese market,

2527
03:07:34,120 --> 03:07:36,799
and so they're trying to keep you know, on paper,

2528
03:07:36,920 --> 03:07:41,719
military weapons away from the country. But there's a loophole

2529
03:07:43,680 --> 03:07:48,079
and this this was also something that Germany exploited. Germany

2530
03:07:48,239 --> 03:07:54,879
was restricted due to the Versailles Treaty to certain like

2531
03:07:55,159 --> 03:07:59,360
sizes of weapons and types of weapons, which is where

2532
03:07:59,360 --> 03:08:02,559
you get the bowld low Mauser, the broom handle with

2533
03:08:02,639 --> 03:08:07,639
a slightly shortened grip and barrel that was extremely popular

2534
03:08:08,000 --> 03:08:11,680
with the Russians and communists in general, as well as

2535
03:08:12,479 --> 03:08:17,200
in China, et cetera, because it would it was compliant

2536
03:08:17,280 --> 03:08:21,120
with the Treaty of Versailles, but still a very capable weapon.

2537
03:08:21,719 --> 03:08:26,319
And then not in you know, nine millimeter because of

2538
03:08:26,440 --> 03:08:33,760
caliber restrictions. It was seven sixty two by twenty five Mauser,

2539
03:08:34,280 --> 03:08:38,520
or maybe it was seven sixty three, excuse me, and anyway,

2540
03:08:38,680 --> 03:08:41,959
so the same thing is happening in China. The Japanese

2541
03:08:42,000 --> 03:08:47,000
are not letting or restricting you know, arms of specific

2542
03:08:47,040 --> 03:08:53,280
types automatic rifles, heavy machine guns, bolt action rifles, et cetera,

2543
03:08:54,559 --> 03:09:01,719
to restrict them to only certain government organs. But handguns

2544
03:09:01,719 --> 03:09:05,159
are okay. So there's tons of thirty two caliber handguns

2545
03:09:05,680 --> 03:09:11,120
flooding from the Spanish factories into China, and also these

2546
03:09:11,200 --> 03:09:18,680
broom handles. Astra and some other folks went out because

2547
03:09:18,840 --> 03:09:22,479
China's consuming all these weapons. They went on a trade

2548
03:09:22,520 --> 03:09:26,600
mission and saw that the broom handle mousers were incredibly

2549
03:09:26,680 --> 03:09:29,879
popular there because it was a light carbing, semi automatic

2550
03:09:30,040 --> 03:09:32,120
light carbing pretty good out to like one hundred and

2551
03:09:32,159 --> 03:09:35,440
fifty yards or so, and they were just gobbling them up.

2552
03:09:35,680 --> 03:09:42,520
So the copies began fast and furious, and almost immediately,

2553
03:09:43,280 --> 03:09:48,159
within like a year, Astra had developed a copy, and

2554
03:09:48,239 --> 03:09:53,079
then other people in the Eyebar area were copying them.

2555
03:09:53,760 --> 03:09:56,719
Speaker 1: So so thirty two acp out to one hundred and fifty.

2556
03:09:56,600 --> 03:10:02,159
Speaker 2: Yards, thirty two acp as a handgun, seven sixty three

2557
03:10:03,000 --> 03:10:06,520
a mouser in the broom handle out to one hundred

2558
03:10:06,559 --> 03:10:11,399
and fifty yards, and they often had very very confident

2559
03:10:11,680 --> 03:10:13,719
site markings on these things, you know, going out to

2560
03:10:13,840 --> 03:10:15,920
like five hundred yards. So it's like you have a

2561
03:10:16,000 --> 03:10:19,200
woodstock on a pistol with like a seven inch barrel,

2562
03:10:19,360 --> 03:10:22,399
but it's a pretty hot cartridge. Seven sixty three Mauser

2563
03:10:22,719 --> 03:10:26,719
right it's like the Tokhrev cartridge. Pretty good submachine gun

2564
03:10:26,799 --> 03:10:29,680
cartridge out to i'd say one hundred and fifty to

2565
03:10:29,760 --> 03:10:32,319
two hundred. You can do it. It starts losing energy

2566
03:10:32,479 --> 03:10:36,079
and stuff at that point, but short range it's incredible,

2567
03:10:36,200 --> 03:10:37,879
great for street fighting and stuff.

2568
03:10:38,600 --> 03:10:42,840
Speaker 1: Hm cool, keep going, yeah, all.

2569
03:10:42,799 --> 03:10:46,959
Speaker 2: Right, So Soma tennis e sinte calistas.

2570
03:10:47,200 --> 03:10:48,760
Speaker 1: So the.

2571
03:10:50,840 --> 03:10:57,360
Speaker 2: The Basque arms manufacturers start doing their own thing and

2572
03:10:57,879 --> 03:11:02,000
copying different designs and trying to again still trying to

2573
03:11:02,040 --> 03:11:04,479
find markets because you have all these people that are

2574
03:11:04,520 --> 03:11:07,879
really skilled, and they're like, we have a domestic industry,

2575
03:11:08,559 --> 03:11:13,840
although there's you know, gun control or regulations for access

2576
03:11:14,360 --> 03:11:19,159
in Spain, a lot of stuff going to China, but

2577
03:11:19,200 --> 03:11:25,600
they're also trying to capture contracts in Spain and then

2578
03:11:25,920 --> 03:11:32,799
you know in Europe elsewhere, et cetera. And so all

2579
03:11:32,920 --> 03:11:37,079
these thirty two automatics become really popular with the Sindacalistas,

2580
03:11:37,200 --> 03:11:43,360
the kind of the communist and anarchist extremists who are

2581
03:11:43,399 --> 03:11:52,840
assassinating people in Spain, and that results under the the

2582
03:11:53,000 --> 03:11:58,559
nineteen twenties dictatorship of General Primo de Rivera of some

2583
03:11:59,600 --> 03:12:04,159
harsh restrictions on access. So all the way. Here on

2584
03:12:04,239 --> 03:12:08,200
the right hand side, there's an advertisement for Soma Tennis.

2585
03:12:08,440 --> 03:12:11,639
And you might remember this. The Soma ten was a

2586
03:12:13,000 --> 03:12:20,479
essentially a citizen militia that was under the control or

2587
03:12:20,639 --> 03:12:26,879
guidance of the dictatorship of Primo de Rivera, the military

2588
03:12:27,520 --> 03:12:33,159
dictatorship and the military government that allowed citizens who were

2589
03:12:34,639 --> 03:12:38,959
you know, vetted and like politically reliable, usually people who

2590
03:12:39,000 --> 03:12:43,360
were you know, established parts of their communities to own

2591
03:12:43,719 --> 03:12:48,440
certain kinds of firearms bullt action rifles, shotguns and handguns.

2592
03:12:49,200 --> 03:12:53,000
And so this is an ad for an Astra model

2593
03:12:53,079 --> 03:12:57,959
four hundred pistol. And this ad is from the nineteen twenties,

2594
03:12:58,079 --> 03:13:04,000
appealing to the Soma ten militiamen in one of their

2595
03:13:04,079 --> 03:13:09,319
own you know, magazines or newspapers and talking about how

2596
03:13:09,399 --> 03:13:12,239
hey in nineteen twenty one, in nineteen twenty two, in

2597
03:13:12,319 --> 03:13:19,200
nineteen twenty three, the you know, the army, the Carbonary,

2598
03:13:20,120 --> 03:13:25,639
the prison Corps, the Civil Guard, and the Navy adopted

2599
03:13:25,719 --> 03:13:31,799
this pistol or accepted it right as as one of

2600
03:13:31,840 --> 03:13:33,600
the weapons that you can own, because a lot of

2601
03:13:33,680 --> 03:13:38,600
times the officers would haven't approved weapons that they would

2602
03:13:38,600 --> 03:13:44,120
acquire privately. As kind of a traditional European thing. So anyway,

2603
03:13:44,159 --> 03:13:48,399
so they were advertising this specific nine milimeter largo pistol.

2604
03:13:48,440 --> 03:13:53,319
We'll look at it a little more details soon. Commercially

2605
03:13:53,479 --> 03:13:58,879
again to this kind of restricted population.

2606
03:14:00,159 --> 03:14:03,360
Speaker 1: I saw I wanted a gun show recently. Yeah, they're

2607
03:14:03,840 --> 03:14:06,799
they're great. Actually had the old boxes. He had the

2608
03:14:06,879 --> 03:14:09,280
old boxes too, the ones that are stamped on the bottom.

2609
03:14:09,600 --> 03:14:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really cool. Uh, there's a lot of these

2610
03:14:12,920 --> 03:14:16,520
in the United States, And like I was saying before,

2611
03:14:16,600 --> 03:14:19,120
a lot of them came in in the eighties and nineties.

2612
03:14:19,559 --> 03:14:22,520
They were really cheap at the time. A lot of

2613
03:14:22,600 --> 03:14:27,040
times there there wasn't the ammunition wasn't that common. Nine

2614
03:14:27,079 --> 03:14:30,000
millimeters largo. It's nine by twenty three, but it's like

2615
03:14:30,120 --> 03:14:33,879
a it's not like a nine x twenty three Winchester,

2616
03:14:33,959 --> 03:14:35,959
which is pretty hot. It's like which is it's like

2617
03:14:36,040 --> 03:14:40,280
a thirty eight Super, a rimless thirty eight Super. It's

2618
03:14:40,479 --> 03:14:44,000
not that pressure. It's like the old thirty eight ACP

2619
03:14:45,040 --> 03:14:48,319
lower pressure. And so people thought they were unreliable because

2620
03:14:48,360 --> 03:14:51,639
they didn't have the correct cartridges for it. They would

2621
03:14:51,639 --> 03:14:54,680
try to shoot nine by nineteen in it, which is

2622
03:14:54,840 --> 03:14:58,000
a little too hot and it's short. You know that

2623
03:14:58,120 --> 03:15:03,639
it wasn't calibrated for the right springs spring tension. There

2624
03:15:03,760 --> 03:15:06,959
was a nine x nineteen parabellum version made for the

2625
03:15:07,399 --> 03:15:11,000
Germans and the Bulgarians during World War Two. They sold

2626
03:15:11,040 --> 03:15:14,120
a lot of those. That's the Model six hundred. Perfectly

2627
03:15:14,239 --> 03:15:20,399
reliable pistols, straight blowback, really really heavy spring, and they

2628
03:15:20,440 --> 03:15:24,159
have a really low bore axis, so they shoot really nicely. Again,

2629
03:15:24,239 --> 03:15:26,040
if you have the right cartridges for it, you could

2630
03:15:26,079 --> 03:15:30,159
get conversion barrels for a nine milimeter luger feeds out

2631
03:15:30,200 --> 03:15:34,479
of the same magazines just fine, although the German ones

2632
03:15:34,520 --> 03:15:37,879
had a spacer, and I should say that the nine

2633
03:15:38,159 --> 03:15:43,000
millimeter luger proper ones had a spacer in the magazine

2634
03:15:43,120 --> 03:15:47,440
just for optimal feeding. But really nice pistols made to

2635
03:15:47,520 --> 03:15:52,079
a very high standard. Kind of weird ergonomically, but there's

2636
03:15:52,120 --> 03:15:55,200
some really neat ergonomics as well, like the grip angle's great.

2637
03:15:56,200 --> 03:16:08,040
So the middle commercial reflects a under the Spanish Republic.

2638
03:16:09,000 --> 03:16:12,000
Uh It makes reference to the second Decree of the

2639
03:16:12,120 --> 03:16:22,760
thirteenth of July nineteen thirty four, which restricted people from

2640
03:16:22,840 --> 03:16:26,079
being able to buy pistols of any kind of any

2641
03:16:26,159 --> 03:16:31,520
caliber under the Republic because things were getting out of control.

2642
03:16:33,520 --> 03:16:36,559
So it's a little more modern star pistol. It has

2643
03:16:37,000 --> 03:16:40,200
a barrel length restriction. It has to be a little longer.

2644
03:16:40,399 --> 03:16:43,239
You see this in like Canada and Europe a lot.

2645
03:16:44,879 --> 03:16:51,760
And the specific it's the specific information about the arms

2646
03:16:51,879 --> 03:16:57,760
restriction is that you have to have authority, you know,

2647
03:16:57,959 --> 03:17:03,000
for for self defense. Weapons is issued by a competent authority,

2648
03:17:04,159 --> 03:17:07,959
so like a chauffeur for people in government can have

2649
03:17:08,040 --> 03:17:15,319
a pistol. City like municipal agents. It sounds like New

2650
03:17:15,399 --> 03:17:23,840
York City exactly exactly. Guards and people transporting prisoners and stuff,

2651
03:17:25,120 --> 03:17:29,479
commercial guards so like, or like guarding a store or

2652
03:17:29,559 --> 03:17:37,799
a bank or industry. So it's restricted to individuals who

2653
03:17:37,920 --> 03:17:41,520
go through you know, screening or these individuals are screened,

2654
03:17:41,520 --> 03:17:44,680
and then like a company can have a certain amount

2655
03:17:44,719 --> 03:17:48,680
of pistols you know that only certain people have access to.

2656
03:17:49,360 --> 03:17:53,840
So there's still this kind of industry for these these

2657
03:17:53,920 --> 03:17:57,000
weapons in here, but it's like more restricted. But what's

2658
03:17:57,040 --> 03:18:00,319
important is that while a lot of this is for

2659
03:18:00,399 --> 03:18:05,680
overseas use, the factories are still there, so that'll come

2660
03:18:05,760 --> 03:18:14,760
into play yep, during the war, all right. And then

2661
03:18:14,840 --> 03:18:18,360
the other category of the weapons in the small arms

2662
03:18:18,399 --> 03:18:22,719
in the Spanish Civil war are arteasonal weapons and arteasonal

2663
03:18:23,399 --> 03:18:28,159
means in Spanish and French use the same as the

2664
03:18:28,200 --> 03:18:34,040
way we use it, which is boutique, small batch, locally sourced,

2665
03:18:34,319 --> 03:18:41,399
hand crafted items made by highly skilled artisans with love

2666
03:18:42,319 --> 03:18:46,040
and so these there's some great example of like a

2667
03:18:46,319 --> 03:18:50,879
very sophisticated version of this is in this picture here.

2668
03:18:51,879 --> 03:18:54,000
This is where you get grenades and stuff. So when

2669
03:18:54,000 --> 03:18:58,680
you read about the extremist attacks in the teens and

2670
03:18:58,760 --> 03:19:02,639
the twenties and the thirties in Spain with grenades, they're

2671
03:19:02,799 --> 03:19:06,000
making these themselves. And a lot of them are literally

2672
03:19:06,239 --> 03:19:10,040
just like a tin you know, a tin can filled

2673
03:19:10,079 --> 03:19:12,959
with explosives and maybe some nails in it, with like

2674
03:19:13,239 --> 03:19:16,040
a wick that you light. But some of them are

2675
03:19:16,159 --> 03:19:20,159
very sophisticated. This is the five bomb. We talked about

2676
03:19:20,200 --> 03:19:23,719
this a little bit the last time we chit chatted.

2677
03:19:24,799 --> 03:19:28,520
This is what Orwell talks about. So the c n

2678
03:19:28,600 --> 03:19:32,479
t FAI militia and in the bottom right corner, uh,

2679
03:19:32,600 --> 03:19:37,760
these fellows here are the some of the hardcore guys

2680
03:19:37,840 --> 03:19:45,600
in the de Rudy column. They're just terrorists and assassins. Basically,

2681
03:19:46,280 --> 03:19:50,000
they're a they're a strike force heavily armed with these

2682
03:19:50,079 --> 03:19:54,559
grenades and then small arms. When we were talking about

2683
03:19:54,639 --> 03:20:02,000
the FAI cellular organization structure, do you remember me talking

2684
03:20:02,040 --> 03:20:06,760
about the people who were responsible for sourcing equipment, Yes,

2685
03:20:07,120 --> 03:20:11,239
including weapons. Well, they had whole groups of these cells

2686
03:20:11,799 --> 03:20:15,399
that were just making these grenades, so they had a

2687
03:20:16,280 --> 03:20:19,319
it was first built. I have an article on my

2688
03:20:19,399 --> 03:20:24,239
substack about it. It's really interesting. It was first designed. Well,

2689
03:20:24,280 --> 03:20:32,079
they got the outline of the design from Ramone Franco.

2690
03:20:33,159 --> 03:20:36,639
Is it Ramona Raoul? I think it's Ramone Franco, who

2691
03:20:36,760 --> 03:20:40,719
was a pilot and an anti monarchist, but not like

2692
03:20:40,879 --> 03:20:44,639
an anarchist, but he was He felt like, we need

2693
03:20:44,760 --> 03:20:48,760
to move forward in the in the twenties when they

2694
03:20:48,799 --> 03:20:54,079
were when these anarchists and other people were plotting a

2695
03:20:54,159 --> 03:20:58,079
lot of this. One guy went undercover and claimed to

2696
03:20:58,159 --> 03:21:02,200
be kind of like a kind of a semi conservative

2697
03:21:02,280 --> 03:21:07,200
like middle of the road anti monarchist, and he was saying,

2698
03:21:07,559 --> 03:21:10,760
you know, he goes to Ramon and he's like, hey,

2699
03:21:11,360 --> 03:21:15,239
you're an aviation. You know, I know that you're an

2700
03:21:15,239 --> 03:21:19,440
anti monarchist. So and so, you know, made the introduction

2701
03:21:19,680 --> 03:21:24,040
for us to chat. Could you help us, like using

2702
03:21:24,200 --> 03:21:28,399
your knowledge about like aerial bombs and stuff to create

2703
03:21:28,520 --> 03:21:32,680
a they call it a hand bomb bolmus de mono

2704
03:21:33,799 --> 03:21:38,719
aka a grenade, and based on you know what you

2705
03:21:38,840 --> 03:21:43,879
know about aerial bombs, so he created an impact fuse

2706
03:21:44,120 --> 03:21:48,520
detonated hand grenade. He kind of sketched the the basics out.

2707
03:21:48,559 --> 03:21:52,719
He let these guys inspect an aerial bomb and a

2708
03:21:52,840 --> 03:21:56,920
design for an aerial bomb, and then this anarchist organizer

2709
03:21:58,239 --> 03:22:04,520
who what the publisher of this Tierra e Liberta libert

2710
03:22:04,600 --> 03:22:13,440
a you know, Land and Freedom, anarchist magazine, to design

2711
03:22:13,520 --> 03:22:17,360
this weapon. He got an Asturian miner who was an

2712
03:22:17,440 --> 03:22:22,399
explosives expert who was a member of the the FAI

2713
03:22:22,600 --> 03:22:29,760
c nt FAI like extremist group to do the actual

2714
03:22:30,799 --> 03:22:36,879
converting this kind of bomb aerial bomb into like something

2715
03:22:36,959 --> 03:22:41,280
that they could actually produce that would be useful. Now

2716
03:22:41,600 --> 03:22:44,319
you can see in this picture it doesn't look huge,

2717
03:22:44,440 --> 03:22:46,959
but it's it's on the big side for like what

2718
03:22:47,079 --> 03:22:49,959
a hand grenade would be now. And it's blocky because

2719
03:22:50,000 --> 03:22:54,079
it's it's a it's cylindrical and although it has these

2720
03:22:54,799 --> 03:23:01,840
cast kind of cells in it, that wasn't originally intended

2721
03:23:02,079 --> 03:23:06,479
necessarily because they thought that it would fragment like a

2722
03:23:06,559 --> 03:23:11,879
pineapple grenade. Design that was actually to make it easy

2723
03:23:11,959 --> 03:23:17,319
to grip. We know from analysis and the reason you

2724
03:23:17,399 --> 03:23:24,120
see the smooth looking fragmentation grenades now that those perforations

2725
03:23:24,159 --> 03:23:27,079
are on the inside the way the explosive works like,

2726
03:23:27,159 --> 03:23:30,920
it actually fragments better that way. They didn't know that

2727
03:23:31,120 --> 03:23:33,159
at the time, and part of it was just to

2728
03:23:33,280 --> 03:23:37,959
make it easier to grip because it's big. So anyway,

2729
03:23:38,520 --> 03:23:41,399
this puppy weighed a ki low and they were like,

2730
03:23:41,680 --> 03:23:44,520
this will be a good compromise. And what they found

2731
03:23:44,760 --> 03:23:47,840
was the problem with a big, fat hand grenade like

2732
03:23:47,920 --> 03:23:50,559
this is that you know, a kilo is two point

2733
03:23:50,600 --> 03:23:54,600
two pounds and it's really hard to throw this the

2734
03:23:54,719 --> 03:23:57,040
kind of distances that you need to throw where you

2735
03:23:57,079 --> 03:24:01,479
don't have fragments going through your head. Also has this

2736
03:24:01,920 --> 03:24:08,799
spring loaded impact fuse that if you know anything about

2737
03:24:08,920 --> 03:24:15,360
like springs and inertia and inertially activated items, the act

2738
03:24:15,440 --> 03:24:19,360
of throwing it alone can cause enough inertia for the

2739
03:24:19,479 --> 03:24:25,520
firing pin to hit the detonator. So this became known

2740
03:24:25,559 --> 03:24:30,799
as parsial because it was like impartial as far as

2741
03:24:30,840 --> 03:24:33,479
who it would kill. It would maybe kill the thrower

2742
03:24:34,440 --> 03:24:37,159
it would maybe kill the people and his crew because

2743
03:24:37,200 --> 03:24:40,040
he couldn't throw it far enough to be outside of

2744
03:24:40,079 --> 03:24:44,559
the lethal range of the shrapnel. This is what we

2745
03:24:44,639 --> 03:24:48,719
call a defensive style of grenade in military terminology, which

2746
03:24:48,840 --> 03:24:51,520
means that like you throw it from behind cover and

2747
03:24:51,680 --> 03:24:55,280
take cover because the fragments are gonna get you if

2748
03:24:55,319 --> 03:24:59,680
you don't do that. Still hell on wheels in straight

2749
03:24:59,760 --> 03:25:05,200
fire and for assassinations like incredibly effective weapon. One thing

2750
03:25:05,239 --> 03:25:07,479
I'll also point out, Pete is that you'll see this

2751
03:25:07,719 --> 03:25:11,520
band here that's wrapped around it. They would wrap a

2752
03:25:11,719 --> 03:25:14,920
cloth streamer around it, and the idea was that it

2753
03:25:15,040 --> 03:25:19,040
was an extra form of safety to hold down the lever.

2754
03:25:19,319 --> 03:25:21,200
And you'll see that this is like a pin, like

2755
03:25:21,280 --> 03:25:24,399
a cotter pin like you have in like an American

2756
03:25:24,440 --> 03:25:30,079
style hand grenade. This would make sure that the safety

2757
03:25:30,159 --> 03:25:34,120
lever didn't fly off accidentally because like a pin got

2758
03:25:34,200 --> 03:25:38,159
worked loose or whatever. And so that was an extra

2759
03:25:38,280 --> 03:25:43,239
safety measure that came from their Lafitte hand grenade, which

2760
03:25:43,239 --> 03:25:46,559
I'll show you later. But it would also have this

2761
03:25:46,879 --> 03:25:49,799
streamer effect so that when you threw it, it would

2762
03:25:49,920 --> 03:25:55,399
orient this this firing pin in kind of inertial system.

2763
03:25:56,319 --> 03:25:57,920
So that it would when it hit the ground, it

2764
03:25:57,920 --> 03:26:01,440
would land on the firing mechanism. It didn't always work

2765
03:26:01,479 --> 03:26:05,239
out that way, but it was a It was a

2766
03:26:05,479 --> 03:26:09,719
very effective weapon, especially at the beginning when they needed

2767
03:26:09,760 --> 03:26:12,600
anything that they could get, and they made tens of

2768
03:26:12,799 --> 03:26:16,760
thousands of these things, like even before the war kicked off,

2769
03:26:17,680 --> 03:26:21,280
and then they were manufacturing them in factories that the

2770
03:26:21,639 --> 03:26:26,920
anarchist like local council took over in Catalonia, and I

2771
03:26:27,000 --> 03:26:30,799
think I told you this, they had thirty five thousand

2772
03:26:30,879 --> 03:26:35,719
of them in trucks when the Drudi column went up

2773
03:26:36,000 --> 03:26:43,479
from Aragon the Aragon Front as well as Catalonia up

2774
03:26:43,559 --> 03:26:50,200
to Madrid to defend the city against Franco's oncoming Army

2775
03:26:50,280 --> 03:26:58,840
of Africa. So very very interesting and effective weapon, although

2776
03:26:58,920 --> 03:27:04,399
again not something that lasted. They phased it out in

2777
03:27:05,000 --> 03:27:09,479
spring or summer ish nineteen thirty seven with a more

2778
03:27:09,879 --> 03:27:14,760
kind of traditional style of grenade that I actually didn't

2779
03:27:14,799 --> 03:27:17,799
do much dive into. I'll just show the kind of

2780
03:27:17,879 --> 03:27:20,639
military issue once, but you get the idea. It's a

2781
03:27:21,399 --> 03:27:30,159
crazy but pretty sophisticated shot made weapon that was very influential,

2782
03:27:30,360 --> 03:27:33,399
especially at the beginning of the war, especially right at

2783
03:27:33,440 --> 03:27:37,879
the uprising, because if you have you know, hundreds of

2784
03:27:37,959 --> 03:27:42,680
hand grenades in your crew of you know, fifty guys,

2785
03:27:42,959 --> 03:27:46,559
you can do a lot in street fighting even if

2786
03:27:46,600 --> 03:27:48,440
you're not super well equipped otherwise.

2787
03:27:50,239 --> 03:27:54,719
Speaker 1: Imagine knowing how sensitive those are and being the guy

2788
03:27:54,799 --> 03:27:57,079
that they're like, hey, climb in the truck and drive that,

2789
03:27:57,879 --> 03:27:59,920
you know, two hundred miles up to Madrid.

2790
03:28:00,799 --> 03:28:04,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's there's design elements in the lafitte that like

2791
03:28:04,200 --> 03:28:06,399
take that into account that I'll cover in a second.

2792
03:28:06,479 --> 03:28:10,239
But yeah, I think I mentioned this too. So this

2793
03:28:10,559 --> 03:28:18,440
was first like refined in Argentina. So a crew of

2794
03:28:18,559 --> 03:28:21,520
anarchists in Argentina were building them and they were working,

2795
03:28:22,600 --> 03:28:26,280
they were going back and forth between Argentina and Uruguay

2796
03:28:27,000 --> 03:28:32,239
and they were they were involved in local shenanigans in Argentina,

2797
03:28:32,879 --> 03:28:36,600
attempted uprisings there. So there was a bomb factory there

2798
03:28:36,920 --> 03:28:44,200
and the main manufacturer crippled himself and of course, you know,

2799
03:28:44,840 --> 03:28:48,360
because a bomb went off basically or he was testing

2800
03:28:48,440 --> 03:28:52,639
it and got hit by it. He wasn't killed, but

2801
03:28:52,840 --> 03:28:55,399
he had to sit there. Because again, you can't take

2802
03:28:55,399 --> 03:29:01,719
a guy during a military government, you know, dealing with

2803
03:29:01,879 --> 03:29:07,040
anarchist uprising who has like grenade injuries, you can't take

2804
03:29:07,120 --> 03:29:10,159
him to the hospital. So this poor guy is just lying,

2805
03:29:10,200 --> 03:29:13,840
you know, scumbag. But still, you know, my my Christian

2806
03:29:13,959 --> 03:29:17,600
love is feeling compassion for all living things. This scumbag

2807
03:29:17,760 --> 03:29:23,000
is lying there like wrapped up, you know, uh, explaining

2808
03:29:23,399 --> 03:29:26,399
people to people who are less experienced, how to make

2809
03:29:26,520 --> 03:29:31,079
these things, these incredibly dangerous grenades with with injuries from it.

2810
03:29:31,600 --> 03:29:34,840
That's that's dedication. You have to you have to you know,

2811
03:29:34,959 --> 03:29:36,760
tip your hat to that level of dedication.

2812
03:29:39,159 --> 03:29:43,440
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's yeah, that's I immediately think to myself,

2813
03:29:43,520 --> 03:29:46,920
well he's an anarchist. Yes, too bad he didn't get

2814
03:29:47,000 --> 03:29:52,479
taken out. Yeah, yeah, that's my that's my Catholic side

2815
03:29:52,520 --> 03:29:54,120
saying die fucking commy scum.

2816
03:29:54,319 --> 03:29:58,879
Speaker 2: Yes, of course. The the other the other famous self

2817
03:29:59,000 --> 03:30:04,079
own with La on Parsil was this guy named Braulio,

2818
03:30:04,760 --> 03:30:09,719
who was again when they went back to Barcelona and

2819
03:30:09,799 --> 03:30:13,079
they were manufacturing these in earnest because again, you have

2820
03:30:13,200 --> 03:30:15,120
to get out of you have to get out of

2821
03:30:15,600 --> 03:30:18,920
South America when they're on to you, and you know

2822
03:30:19,840 --> 03:30:22,440
that all these weapons there. I believe there was a

2823
03:30:22,520 --> 03:30:27,280
failed uprising. A bunch of the weapons got captured and

2824
03:30:27,399 --> 03:30:31,479
then the the factory got captured. I found the original

2825
03:30:31,639 --> 03:30:36,879
article in Spanish, of course, and so it got captured

2826
03:30:36,920 --> 03:30:39,120
along with the main bomb maker who was all crippled,

2827
03:30:39,200 --> 03:30:41,920
and they're describing the scene, you know, these low level people.

2828
03:30:42,000 --> 03:30:43,879
But then the masterminds got out of there and went

2829
03:30:43,959 --> 03:30:48,079
back to Spain. So they're in Barcelona making these things,

2830
03:30:48,239 --> 03:30:51,079
and one of the main manufacturers, one of the main

2831
03:30:51,159 --> 03:30:55,239
makers of this, blew himself up during during testing when

2832
03:30:55,239 --> 03:30:59,680
they're out in the mountains northwest of Barcelona. If you've

2833
03:30:59,719 --> 03:31:04,079
been to Barcelona, it's like coastline, and then it immediately

2834
03:31:04,159 --> 03:31:08,360
becomes mountainous, you know, low mountains, like high hills. But

2835
03:31:08,959 --> 03:31:11,520
they're back in the forest there, and so they just

2836
03:31:11,680 --> 03:31:16,120
buried him there. And yeah, this fellow brow Leo. So yeah,

2837
03:31:16,120 --> 03:31:20,520
it was very famous for killing the people making and

2838
03:31:20,719 --> 03:31:23,040
using them. Good times.

2839
03:31:24,040 --> 03:31:26,600
Speaker 1: So who's the who's the tall drink of water next

2840
03:31:26,639 --> 03:31:27,079
to Franco?

2841
03:31:27,479 --> 03:31:34,040
Speaker 2: Oh that's oh my gosh, why is my brain not working? General? Uh?

2842
03:31:36,120 --> 03:31:43,239
The crippled guy. General, crippled guy? Uh? Areol?

2843
03:31:44,200 --> 03:31:46,840
Speaker 1: Is it? Yeah? Yeah, I believe it's Ore.

2844
03:31:47,399 --> 03:31:51,239
Speaker 2: I think I think it's Arioll. Yeah. So he's in

2845
03:31:51,360 --> 03:31:56,479
a he's in a movie about like right when the

2846
03:31:56,600 --> 03:32:01,760
uprising happens, and they gosh, i'll have to I had

2847
03:32:01,840 --> 03:32:05,040
someone ask me about movies about the Spanish Civil War,

2848
03:32:06,120 --> 03:32:11,000
and it was a very unsympathetic portrayal because he was

2849
03:32:11,079 --> 03:32:13,920
really just a military man who was all about order,

2850
03:32:14,040 --> 03:32:19,200
Like he co founded the Spanish Legion with Franco. They

2851
03:32:19,239 --> 03:32:24,600
were best pals, and yeah, very very interesting fellow, but

2852
03:32:24,760 --> 03:32:28,799
a key ring leader in the in the in the uprising.

2853
03:32:31,600 --> 03:32:34,479
So we're gonna look at it.

2854
03:32:34,559 --> 03:32:36,719
Speaker 1: Wasn't it wasn't j Milan AUSTRAI was it?

2855
03:32:36,920 --> 03:32:41,319
Speaker 2: It was Austra. Yes, I'm sorry, Yeah, Austra. Yeah, okay,

2856
03:32:41,399 --> 03:32:48,360
no problem, Yeah, thank you for that. So the superlative

2857
03:32:48,479 --> 03:32:52,280
Spanish Mauser seven millimeter Mauser is such a nice little

2858
03:32:52,399 --> 03:32:56,440
sweet spot and a lot of like heavier weapons are

2859
03:32:57,799 --> 03:33:00,840
coming back to this kind of six point five millimeter

2860
03:33:00,959 --> 03:33:05,719
to seven millimeter sweet spot that was figured out like

2861
03:33:05,799 --> 03:33:08,639
at the end of the nineteenth century with the first

2862
03:33:09,040 --> 03:33:13,760
This is a first generation smokeless cartridge and it's a

2863
03:33:14,280 --> 03:33:18,479
very very nice cartridge. The rim size is the same

2864
03:33:18,559 --> 03:33:23,200
as thirty odd six and three h eight. It's you know, dimensionally,

2865
03:33:23,319 --> 03:33:28,120
it fits right into that you know, nice, you know,

2866
03:33:28,319 --> 03:33:34,360
nice middle range cartridge, high velocity, modesty, coil flat trajectory.

2867
03:33:34,840 --> 03:33:38,159
They started out with kind of the long round bullet

2868
03:33:38,280 --> 03:33:43,840
of like one hundred and seventy ish grains no metrics sorry,

2869
03:33:44,000 --> 03:33:47,959
euros one hundred and thirty nine grains spitzer bullet at

2870
03:33:48,000 --> 03:33:52,280
twenty one hundred fps, about twenty four hundred foot pounds

2871
03:33:52,280 --> 03:33:58,639
of energy, plenty plenty, powerful flat shooting. This is the

2872
03:33:58,760 --> 03:34:03,440
nineteen sixteen short model which became their standard carving like

2873
03:34:03,559 --> 03:34:07,760
twenty three inch barrel ish twenty twenty three inch about

2874
03:34:07,799 --> 03:34:12,719
six inches less tube out front than the original longer variants,

2875
03:34:13,159 --> 03:34:17,399
which were still used very heavily in the war that

2876
03:34:17,600 --> 03:34:25,559
during the Boer War, the Boer Republic employed similar mousers

2877
03:34:25,760 --> 03:34:29,159
eighteen ninety threes and eighteen ninety fives and seven millimeter mouser.

2878
03:34:30,399 --> 03:34:34,040
They rocked the British so well that the British in

2879
03:34:34,159 --> 03:34:36,840
the in the eighteen late eighteen nineties that the British

2880
03:34:37,319 --> 03:34:42,719
military like reevaluated their small arms theory and you know,

2881
03:34:43,239 --> 03:34:48,479
really amped up next generation iteration of the three h

2882
03:34:48,600 --> 03:34:53,399
three UH to meet that kind of capability because it

2883
03:34:53,559 --> 03:34:56,360
was so flat shooting and so easy to hit and

2884
03:34:56,479 --> 03:35:00,319
so easy to operate that they figured out, like we're

2885
03:35:00,440 --> 03:35:02,680
behind the times, like we need to we need to

2886
03:35:02,760 --> 03:35:05,680
get with it. The US military also went toe to

2887
03:35:05,760 --> 03:35:12,600
toe against the Spanish in Cuba and in the Philippines

2888
03:35:13,600 --> 03:35:18,159
and then later in the war in Mexico nineteen fourteen,

2889
03:35:18,239 --> 03:35:21,319
So in the Mexican Civil War, the US intervened a

2890
03:35:21,360 --> 03:35:23,360
little bit. And if I recall, they called it the

2891
03:35:23,440 --> 03:35:27,399
Spanish hornet because it was high velocity and would just

2892
03:35:27,559 --> 03:35:34,120
rock you. They were using the eighteen seventy three Remington's

2893
03:35:34,440 --> 03:35:37,639
in forty five seventy as well as like the thirty

2894
03:35:37,719 --> 03:35:42,440
forty Crag, And after they went up against the Spanish

2895
03:35:42,680 --> 03:35:45,000
with the Crag, they were like, yeah, we gotta we

2896
03:35:45,159 --> 03:35:48,040
gotta do something different here, which is why we went

2897
03:35:48,120 --> 03:35:53,079
to the nineteen oh three Springfield, which, if I recall correctly,

2898
03:35:53,200 --> 03:35:57,760
is a Mauser pattern action or am I thinking to

2899
03:35:57,799 --> 03:36:00,559
the end field, But I'm pretty I'm pretty oftident it's

2900
03:36:00,600 --> 03:36:05,040
it's very Mauser action esque in thirty odd six, so

2901
03:36:07,840 --> 03:36:10,920
very this was the main weapon. There were like five

2902
03:36:11,040 --> 03:36:13,559
hundred thousand of them in Spain at the time of

2903
03:36:13,680 --> 03:36:19,440
the war. You know, when they were first when Mauser

2904
03:36:19,760 --> 03:36:23,520
Paul Mauser developed this rifle and he actually got a

2905
03:36:24,200 --> 03:36:31,639
military Spanish military Medal of Merit right and Medal award

2906
03:36:31,799 --> 03:36:35,639
for for developing this weapon because the Spanish felt that

2907
03:36:35,680 --> 03:36:39,239
it was such a like a next generation piece of

2908
03:36:39,319 --> 03:36:40,719
equipment for their military.

2909
03:36:41,799 --> 03:36:42,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2910
03:36:42,079 --> 03:36:48,879
Speaker 2: So they were actually manufactured in Oviedo up in Asturias

2911
03:36:51,040 --> 03:36:56,479
for decades and that was like the main arsenal that

2912
03:36:56,639 --> 03:37:01,479
was producing these rifles, although during the war or that

2913
03:37:01,680 --> 03:37:06,079
was kind of redistributed as needed based on you know,

2914
03:37:06,159 --> 03:37:13,840
what was under control. Uh, the La Coruna also far

2915
03:37:13,959 --> 03:37:18,600
up in the northwest of Spain, the La Coruna Arsenal

2916
03:37:19,079 --> 03:37:24,319
became a weapons manufacturer as well because the nationalists controlled it.

2917
03:37:25,799 --> 03:37:31,440
Funny story. Funny story. So in Asturias, you know, I

2918
03:37:31,600 --> 03:37:35,399
was just talking about the Austurian Austurian miner that made

2919
03:37:35,440 --> 03:37:41,479
this grenade design, right. So, Uh, Asturias was the center

2920
03:37:41,760 --> 03:37:47,520
of the the militant anarchist miners who were sappers and

2921
03:37:48,879 --> 03:37:56,079
you know, dynamiters dinam Intero's and so they were really

2922
03:37:56,239 --> 03:38:01,000
crucial shock troops for the the the anarchists in all

2923
03:38:01,079 --> 03:38:05,559
of their attempted uprisings et cetera. Well as well as

2924
03:38:05,639 --> 03:38:11,239
resistance to the Army uprising in nineteen thirty six. So

2925
03:38:12,200 --> 03:38:15,879
funny story. I'll right about it sometime soon. But funny

2926
03:38:15,920 --> 03:38:21,680
story is that the military governor in the area, again

2927
03:38:21,879 --> 03:38:25,079
under the Republic, but still a military governor because of

2928
03:38:25,360 --> 03:38:30,920
the Oviedo Factory and everything like that, swore up and

2929
03:38:31,000 --> 03:38:35,040
down that he was loyal to the Republic. And you know,

2930
03:38:35,159 --> 03:38:39,000
so when the uprising happened, this this colonel said to

2931
03:38:39,719 --> 03:38:44,360
these Austurian miners, Hey, guys, here's you know, you can

2932
03:38:44,440 --> 03:38:47,079
take some weapons, but I think you need to go

2933
03:38:47,399 --> 03:38:53,159
to Madrid because the government needs to be protected if

2934
03:38:53,200 --> 03:38:56,360
the city falls, like you know, we lose to these

2935
03:38:56,760 --> 03:39:01,680
these horrible fascists. So like four thousand and Austrurian miners,

2936
03:39:01,760 --> 03:39:07,079
like most of the the left militants in and around Ovielo,

2937
03:39:07,680 --> 03:39:12,120
left and headed southeast. They got they got blocked at

2938
03:39:12,200 --> 03:39:20,479
the passes, like going into Castilli Leon and got steimied there.

2939
03:39:21,239 --> 03:39:26,399
And then the colonel said, psych we're with the We're

2940
03:39:26,479 --> 03:39:29,079
with the nationalist uprising. And so they were able to

2941
03:39:29,120 --> 03:39:32,680
hold the city and keep the factory, even though most

2942
03:39:32,760 --> 03:39:37,440
of the areas around them were captured by Republicans and anarchists,

2943
03:39:37,600 --> 03:39:38,959
So good times.

2944
03:39:43,559 --> 03:39:47,120
Speaker 1: All right, So that looks like yeah, I've seen Yeah,

2945
03:39:47,680 --> 03:39:50,319
those are the exact boxes that this guy had at

2946
03:39:50,479 --> 03:39:51,479
UH at a show.

2947
03:39:52,000 --> 03:39:56,319
Speaker 2: That's awesome because it was that was the that was

2948
03:39:56,399 --> 03:40:00,639
the main way you could get this cartridge intel like

2949
03:40:00,760 --> 03:40:04,319
the I know there was some commercial manufacture, but it

2950
03:40:04,479 --> 03:40:08,760
was it was like well into the two thousands, I think,

2951
03:40:08,840 --> 03:40:12,840
before you could find anything other than this, you know,

2952
03:40:13,000 --> 03:40:18,600
Spanish flag. You know, military arsenal produced ammunition, which is

2953
03:40:18,680 --> 03:40:23,399
great ammunition. So Astra four hundred and nine millimeters largo.

2954
03:40:23,959 --> 03:40:32,280
Astra is a Basque country arms manufacturer. They won this

2955
03:40:32,440 --> 03:40:37,239
contract to make the pistol for the Army, for the Navy,

2956
03:40:37,680 --> 03:40:41,440
for a bunch of you know, government law enforcement organizations,

2957
03:40:41,520 --> 03:40:47,239
you know Carbinari equivalents, et cetera. Straight blowback, extremely heavy spring,

2958
03:40:47,559 --> 03:40:52,159
long barrel, very low bore axis, very nice shooting pistol,

2959
03:40:52,319 --> 03:40:58,239
very accurate because it the barrel, it's not fixed like

2960
03:40:58,319 --> 03:41:01,879
where it's pinned into the frame like on like an

2961
03:41:02,159 --> 03:41:08,520
FN nineteen twenty two, but it fits in with grooves

2962
03:41:09,799 --> 03:41:13,120
into the receiver and so you can pop it out

2963
03:41:13,159 --> 03:41:15,680
and clean it really easily, but it's like fixed in place.

2964
03:41:15,920 --> 03:41:19,760
So very very accurate pistol with a nice recoil operation.

2965
03:41:19,879 --> 03:41:24,319
It's kind of weird because it's this long, heavy spring thing.

2966
03:41:24,959 --> 03:41:27,959
Really interesting ergonomics. It has this kind of like raised

2967
03:41:29,280 --> 03:41:37,799
here on the the grooves for the cocking grooves. It

2968
03:41:38,000 --> 03:41:40,360
kind of swells out so that it fits your finger

2969
03:41:40,520 --> 03:41:43,120
for like a pinch grip. It's really really neat pistol.

2970
03:41:43,600 --> 03:41:45,600
I'm down here on the right hand side, there's a

2971
03:41:45,639 --> 03:41:49,280
comparison shot. This is nine millimeter largo, so it's twenty

2972
03:41:49,360 --> 03:41:54,159
three millimeters long. It uses it's basically the equivalent of

2973
03:41:54,239 --> 03:41:58,159
a nine by nineteen millimeter in pressure. Maybe it's slightly

2974
03:41:58,360 --> 03:42:02,639
lower pressure because it's an older cartridge. It has this crazy,

2975
03:42:03,799 --> 03:42:09,239
crazy like long groove. Some things I've read about it

2976
03:42:09,520 --> 03:42:12,040
is that some of this is based on a theory

2977
03:42:12,959 --> 03:42:17,920
of cartridge layout to work with a blowback pistol and

2978
03:42:18,000 --> 03:42:21,360
again lower pressure than like nine by nineteen which requires

2979
03:42:21,440 --> 03:42:24,280
a locked breach, although they were able to adapt this

2980
03:42:24,440 --> 03:42:28,040
pistol just fine to use nine by nineteen. Over on

2981
03:42:28,079 --> 03:42:30,799
the right hand side is we have more modern cartridges.

2982
03:42:31,639 --> 03:42:35,000
I believe the one right here is nine x twenty

2983
03:42:35,120 --> 03:42:39,719
three Winchester, which is very high pressure and very modern,

2984
03:42:39,799 --> 03:42:44,079
and I believe that this is a thirty eight Super Rimless,

2985
03:42:44,719 --> 03:42:47,200
which is basically the thirty eight Super but with a

2986
03:42:48,200 --> 03:42:52,520
recessed rim. So these are very hot, way hotter than

2987
03:42:52,639 --> 03:42:55,879
nine x twenty three largo, which is an early twentieth

2988
03:42:55,959 --> 03:43:00,680
century you know, standard pressure kind of pistol. So very

2989
03:43:00,760 --> 03:43:04,479
cool pistol, very basic, And it was the primary handgun

2990
03:43:04,959 --> 03:43:08,120
just because again they made so many of them for

2991
03:43:08,239 --> 03:43:12,360
government use. They were also available commercially, so plenty were

2992
03:43:12,399 --> 03:43:15,600
privately owned commercially, et cetera. And it was the main

2993
03:43:16,280 --> 03:43:20,440
it was the standard military issue handgun. The Republic made

2994
03:43:20,520 --> 03:43:26,360
copies of them in Valencia and Barcelona. Was it Valencia?

2995
03:43:26,440 --> 03:43:31,920
Yea Valencia in Barcelona, I think Valencia. Again, at these

2996
03:43:32,559 --> 03:43:35,639
old arsenals, they were able to government arsenals, they were

2997
03:43:35,680 --> 03:43:43,159
able to reproduce them using the factories there. So I'm

2998
03:43:43,280 --> 03:43:48,920
keeping this like platoon slash company level in terms of

2999
03:43:49,000 --> 03:43:55,440
the weaponry. So these are very interesting and strange looking

3000
03:43:55,559 --> 03:44:04,079
to us. But this is a lette hand grenade. It is.

3001
03:44:04,200 --> 03:44:08,280
It was a Spanish army issue hand grenade. They had

3002
03:44:08,319 --> 03:44:11,239
a little wire loop for sliding it into your belt

3003
03:44:11,399 --> 03:44:15,639
or mounting it on a on a belt or hanging

3004
03:44:15,719 --> 03:44:19,600
it on a bandelier or something like that. It was

3005
03:44:19,680 --> 03:44:26,440
a cast iron, very small, like very throwable hand grenade.

3006
03:44:26,840 --> 03:44:30,360
They had a rubber cap over the top and you

3007
03:44:30,399 --> 03:44:33,959
would pop the the rubber cap off and there was

3008
03:44:34,000 --> 03:44:37,760
a little recessed area in this kind of whole top

3009
03:44:37,920 --> 03:44:40,200
end here because there was essentially like a wall here.

3010
03:44:40,840 --> 03:44:44,079
It was black powder, so it was a very old

3011
03:44:44,239 --> 03:44:47,159
basic design that had rosen in it, i think, to

3012
03:44:48,000 --> 03:44:52,440
to make it a little more weather proof and less

3013
03:44:52,479 --> 03:44:56,000
shock proof. So it was essentially a casting. It was

3014
03:44:56,120 --> 03:44:58,639
liquid and then they would pour it in and it

3015
03:44:58,680 --> 03:45:03,399
would harden while still maintaining its explosiveness, so like a

3016
03:45:03,680 --> 03:45:07,920
low order explosive because it's black powder based. But it

3017
03:45:08,079 --> 03:45:12,159
actually worked very well. It was a defensive grenade, but

3018
03:45:12,280 --> 03:45:15,440
it had a small blast radius because it was black powder,

3019
03:45:15,799 --> 03:45:18,600
and so it was actually very popular for that reason.

3020
03:45:19,079 --> 03:45:23,840
They made this like through the Civil War and there

3021
03:45:23,879 --> 03:45:26,680
were so there were copies of it, and it was

3022
03:45:26,799 --> 03:45:30,760
lit with a wick. So it was a a wire

3023
03:45:31,280 --> 03:45:34,200
so if you if you've ever seen like like on

3024
03:45:34,319 --> 03:45:44,920
a on a Zippo lighter, there's like wire structure together

3025
03:45:46,280 --> 03:45:48,319
so so that it can it can kind of hold

3026
03:45:48,559 --> 03:45:51,479
and be a little more robust. And then there was

3027
03:45:51,639 --> 03:45:56,680
a piece of a like a little shard of like

3028
03:45:56,920 --> 03:45:59,840
flint or something like that to be used as a striker,

3029
03:46:00,319 --> 03:46:02,959
so flint and steel, right, so you would strike it

3030
03:46:03,159 --> 03:46:06,479
on the body of the grenade itself to light it.

3031
03:46:06,879 --> 03:46:09,920
And it was actually very popular because it was very

3032
03:46:10,120 --> 03:46:14,159
safe and it was reliable, like it would light in

3033
03:46:14,719 --> 03:46:17,799
rain and stuff like that if you didn't like soak

3034
03:46:17,879 --> 03:46:20,479
it in puddles and stuff like that, and it was

3035
03:46:20,799 --> 03:46:25,120
not super dangerous for the user. Now it's slow, like

3036
03:46:25,360 --> 03:46:30,920
obviously that became very obsolete, but this design was copied

3037
03:46:31,600 --> 03:46:35,399
extensively throughout the whole country, and all these little small

3038
03:46:35,600 --> 03:46:41,399
again artisanal shops or like naval arsenals were a big

3039
03:46:42,000 --> 03:46:46,360
builder of this kind of weaponry all throughout the country.

3040
03:46:46,559 --> 03:46:50,200
They would retool to copy these weapons. And this one

3041
03:46:50,879 --> 03:46:56,879
is actually a variant that was made in Madrid. Again

3042
03:46:57,280 --> 03:47:00,959
during the Siege of Madrid, it became you know, they

3043
03:47:01,040 --> 03:47:04,000
started making these in there in their particular style. So

3044
03:47:05,000 --> 03:47:08,000
you saw these with militias, and you saw it with

3045
03:47:08,239 --> 03:47:13,959
the republic and with the nationalists. This here is a

3046
03:47:14,040 --> 03:47:19,600
really weird looking grenade called a lafitte. It was originally

3047
03:47:19,680 --> 03:47:23,760
a French design, but it was a Spanish issue offensive grenade,

3048
03:47:24,280 --> 03:47:29,079
meaning that it has a cast, not a cast, but

3049
03:47:29,280 --> 03:47:34,479
like a sheet metal body so that it doesn't fragment

3050
03:47:34,680 --> 03:47:37,559
that much like of course when it explodes the mech

3051
03:47:37,600 --> 03:47:40,479
and all the pieces will go flying. But the idea

3052
03:47:40,799 --> 03:47:43,239
is an offensive grenade as you can throw it and

3053
03:47:43,399 --> 03:47:48,159
assault into it, so like the German potato masher is

3054
03:47:48,159 --> 03:47:51,639
an offensive grenade. They made them later where you could

3055
03:47:51,920 --> 03:47:55,440
put a sleeve, like a fragmenting sleeve over it. But

3056
03:47:55,520 --> 03:48:00,200
the idea was that this one also has it's a

3057
03:48:00,280 --> 03:48:03,479
really weird fire control mechanism, and it had a streamer

3058
03:48:03,600 --> 03:48:07,879
to orient because it was also an impact fuse, but

3059
03:48:08,000 --> 03:48:12,840
it was more like inertial. So there's this percussion system

3060
03:48:12,920 --> 03:48:17,239
in here and then the debtonator and this safety like

3061
03:48:17,399 --> 03:48:22,559
it had to be jostled with enough pressure with the

3062
03:48:22,680 --> 03:48:27,120
safety mechanism removed that the spring would be able to

3063
03:48:27,479 --> 03:48:30,239
hit the debtonator and then it was filled with like

3064
03:48:30,319 --> 03:48:35,040
a liquid, a liquid or sludgy plastic explosives, so a

3065
03:48:36,000 --> 03:48:40,799
high explosive. So again offensive grenade used for you know,

3066
03:48:40,920 --> 03:48:42,920
you can throw it and it'll have like a three

3067
03:48:43,000 --> 03:48:46,239
to four meter blast radius so you can charge into it.

3068
03:48:46,760 --> 03:48:51,079
Like It's great for trench warfare and urban fighting, but

3069
03:48:51,280 --> 03:48:54,239
kind of odd. It also had that streamer effect. And

3070
03:48:54,280 --> 03:49:00,000
again the streamer would retain this weird sheet metal pressure

3071
03:49:00,280 --> 03:49:04,120
plate that held down that like safety mechanism, and you

3072
03:49:04,159 --> 03:49:09,280
would pull you would pull this pin system and it

3073
03:49:09,319 --> 03:49:11,639
would have to pull all the way out, so like

3074
03:49:11,799 --> 03:49:14,920
three and a half four inches before this plate would

3075
03:49:14,959 --> 03:49:18,079
be loose so that it could you could then throw it,

3076
03:49:18,479 --> 03:49:20,639
and so like you would have it still be partially

3077
03:49:20,760 --> 03:49:23,479
wrapped with a streamer so that you threw it before

3078
03:49:23,520 --> 03:49:27,079
the whole thing fell off, So you couldn't cook it

3079
03:49:27,360 --> 03:49:32,840
like a percussion style grenade with a spoon like the

3080
03:49:32,879 --> 03:49:35,600
American style. You couldn't cook it off because there's no timer.

3081
03:49:35,719 --> 03:49:36,399
Speaker 1: You just threw it.

3082
03:49:36,639 --> 03:49:41,399
Speaker 2: So and then over here is a fifty millimeter trench

3083
03:49:41,520 --> 03:49:49,239
mortar called the Valero that was manufactured by Esperantha Ethea

3084
03:49:49,799 --> 03:49:55,200
so Esperanza and company up in Basque Country in a

3085
03:49:55,600 --> 03:50:00,360
smaller town. But they've been making these based on like

3086
03:50:00,520 --> 03:50:08,079
World War One, like little like platoon level mortars and stuff.

3087
03:50:08,159 --> 03:50:12,680
This is the precursor to like grenade launchers and stuff.

3088
03:50:12,959 --> 03:50:15,959
So this was something that you saw, Like the Japanese

3089
03:50:16,040 --> 03:50:19,600
knee mortar is really well known. It's basically most of

3090
03:50:19,680 --> 03:50:21,799
the time you see it with just the body and

3091
03:50:21,920 --> 03:50:23,879
you put it down on the ground and you don't

3092
03:50:23,959 --> 03:50:27,159
fire it off your knee. You kneel and you lay

3093
03:50:27,200 --> 03:50:29,719
it down and then aim it. But this one was done.

3094
03:50:30,639 --> 03:50:33,399
You would lay this. One of the heaviest parts was

3095
03:50:33,479 --> 03:50:35,799
the base. You'd put it into the ground and then

3096
03:50:35,879 --> 03:50:38,639
aim with it lying down on your stomach while someone

3097
03:50:38,719 --> 03:50:42,559
else loaded it and stuff like that. So very interesting

3098
03:50:42,639 --> 03:50:47,840
and typical of the interwar period. That kind of weapon

3099
03:50:47,959 --> 03:50:51,040
stuck around into World War Two, but then it very

3100
03:50:51,159 --> 03:50:55,559
rapidly went away with kind of miniaturization, like you could

3101
03:50:55,600 --> 03:50:58,360
move up to a sixty millimeter mortar or have grenade

3102
03:50:58,399 --> 03:51:06,440
launchers and rifle grenades stuff. All right, speaking of rifle grenades,

3103
03:51:06,840 --> 03:51:11,120
I don't have anything in this here, but by nineteen

3104
03:51:11,239 --> 03:51:15,200
thirty eight there were there was some use of rifle

3105
03:51:15,239 --> 03:51:22,399
grenades by the nationalists, using German rifles in eight millimeters,

3106
03:51:22,479 --> 03:51:26,120
using rifle grenades because the you know, the Germans had

3107
03:51:26,200 --> 03:51:28,200
used those in World War One and then they kind

3108
03:51:28,239 --> 03:51:31,920
of redid them for World War Two, and so some

3109
03:51:32,120 --> 03:51:34,959
of the testing of the of these weapons was done

3110
03:51:35,079 --> 03:51:38,479
in Spain, so it is not me making stuff up

3111
03:51:38,639 --> 03:51:42,639
when I have people using those in my book. Again

3112
03:51:42,680 --> 03:51:45,680
at the very end of the war. All right, So

3113
03:51:46,600 --> 03:51:49,399
again keeping this mostly small arms, but I'm about to

3114
03:51:49,920 --> 03:51:54,399
diverge from that in a second, just because it's interesting.

3115
03:51:54,639 --> 03:51:59,600
But Spanish medium and light machine guns. The Spanish had

3116
03:52:00,959 --> 03:52:09,000
military liked the Hotchkiss so French design, and they used

3117
03:52:09,319 --> 03:52:18,319
these stripper clips to feed from, so not belt fired.

3118
03:52:19,120 --> 03:52:24,600
They went towards belt fed weapons later, but in the

3119
03:52:24,719 --> 03:52:29,239
war they really modernized. You'll see this slash thirty eight.

3120
03:52:30,040 --> 03:52:33,040
They really modernized as the war went on because they

3121
03:52:33,079 --> 03:52:37,239
had to ramp up the manufacturer because they didn't have

3122
03:52:37,559 --> 03:52:42,520
that many machine guns. They had the medium Hotchkiss over here,

3123
03:52:42,680 --> 03:52:47,000
the nineteen fourteen that had proved itself in the Riff War.

3124
03:52:48,200 --> 03:52:52,479
They used the nineteen twenty two, which they adopted and

3125
03:52:52,600 --> 03:52:57,000
made themselves under license beginning in nineteen twenty five. That

3126
03:52:57,120 --> 03:53:01,600
one also used these stripper clips. So here's the thing

3127
03:53:01,680 --> 03:53:05,799
to keep in mind. You know, World War One to

3128
03:53:05,920 --> 03:53:08,879
World War Two, there was still a lot of these

3129
03:53:09,120 --> 03:53:15,840
kind of old style of weapons that phased out because

3130
03:53:16,959 --> 03:53:21,840
we found things that worked better. Militaries tend to be

3131
03:53:21,959 --> 03:53:25,600
really conservative, and so if you think about it as

3132
03:53:25,680 --> 03:53:28,879
particularly like a good example is the Spanish Riff War.

3133
03:53:29,399 --> 03:53:33,559
So they're running around in North Africa in horrible conditions,

3134
03:53:34,319 --> 03:53:38,360
and the supply lines are really long, and these stripper

3135
03:53:38,399 --> 03:53:45,959
clips are easy to keep clean and dry, and you know,

3136
03:53:46,280 --> 03:53:49,200
you don't have cloth getting wet and rotting, and you

3137
03:53:49,280 --> 03:53:52,680
don't have these super complex links that get all clogged

3138
03:53:52,799 --> 03:53:56,479
up and everything like that. Like logistically, like you can

3139
03:53:56,559 --> 03:54:00,639
carry these stripper clips in bags and boxes and everything

3140
03:54:00,760 --> 03:54:03,680
like that. And these are crew served weapons. They would

3141
03:54:03,719 --> 03:54:10,000
have a sex session of six men, right, that's like

3142
03:54:10,159 --> 03:54:14,760
your fire team level, but it's also in like half

3143
03:54:14,840 --> 03:54:17,040
of them to make a you know, they make a

3144
03:54:17,079 --> 03:54:23,200
full squad esquadra of twelve men, but you would have

3145
03:54:23,440 --> 03:54:28,040
six men supporting each of these weapons. Later in the war,

3146
03:54:28,200 --> 03:54:31,079
the light machine guns, they reduced the number guys supporting

3147
03:54:31,120 --> 03:54:33,360
it a little bit. And part of that was in

3148
03:54:33,479 --> 03:54:36,639
nineteen thirty eight when they started building this weapon at

3149
03:54:37,319 --> 03:54:42,440
La Coruna, they went towards the top magazine fed style.

3150
03:54:43,559 --> 03:54:48,479
Only the Spanish and the British acquired the hotch Kiss

3151
03:54:49,399 --> 03:54:53,280
and license for elements of the design of the Hotchkiss

3152
03:54:53,680 --> 03:54:57,120
with a top magazine feed that the British used it

3153
03:54:59,079 --> 03:55:03,760
for their where they ultimately adopted the bren gun, which

3154
03:55:03,840 --> 03:55:10,040
is a CZ right, so it's a it's a check design.

3155
03:55:10,280 --> 03:55:14,479
But they really liked this style and that the Spanish

3156
03:55:14,639 --> 03:55:21,120
nationalists moved towards this top magazine fed version eventually, all right,

3157
03:55:21,360 --> 03:55:24,559
So those were reusable. You know, link systems are an

3158
03:55:24,600 --> 03:55:28,799
issue because you you know, the links are everywhere. This way,

3159
03:55:28,959 --> 03:55:32,680
it's really easy to keep things like logistically simple, they

3160
03:55:32,799 --> 03:55:37,879
last longer, et cetera. So very conservative thinking it. But

3161
03:55:38,079 --> 03:55:42,000
it also kept the rate of fire down, which meant

3162
03:55:42,360 --> 03:55:47,120
the barrels lasted longer. You know, you kept your ammunition

3163
03:55:47,239 --> 03:55:51,360
around more, et cetera. So anyway, just just a basic philosophy.

3164
03:55:52,360 --> 03:55:54,719
This was the beginning of the end for this these

3165
03:55:54,799 --> 03:55:57,159
kinds of designs. That this was one of the last

3166
03:55:57,280 --> 03:56:05,159
usages of them anywhere, all right. And my only departure

3167
03:56:05,239 --> 03:56:11,920
from small arms here is around armor. So the Spanish

3168
03:56:12,399 --> 03:56:18,239
army had a handful of these Renol light tanks, which

3169
03:56:18,319 --> 03:56:21,680
were from nineteen seventeen or nineteen eighteen, I think was

3170
03:56:21,840 --> 03:56:25,000
the design. They liked them. They you know, it took

3171
03:56:25,120 --> 03:56:28,000
like two men to operate them, plus you know your

3172
03:56:28,040 --> 03:56:31,280
support team. You have the driver and the gunner. And

3173
03:56:32,719 --> 03:56:35,000
they had variants with a light gun like a thirty

3174
03:56:35,079 --> 03:56:38,360
seven millimeter and then another one with you know, the

3175
03:56:38,520 --> 03:56:41,479
same light machine gun we were just looking at. The

3176
03:56:41,600 --> 03:56:44,120
idea was is that it would be fairly fast to

3177
03:56:44,200 --> 03:56:48,360
get around but be protected from small arms fire. It

3178
03:56:48,479 --> 03:56:52,280
was completely obsolete by the time the war started, but

3179
03:56:52,479 --> 03:56:56,000
it did. The reason I bring it up is because

3180
03:56:56,040 --> 03:56:58,200
we're going to look at some stuff that they got.

3181
03:56:58,639 --> 03:57:04,360
That the Republic gun from the Soviets, that's just super

3182
03:57:04,440 --> 03:57:09,520
next generation. So anyway, wrapping it up there, they only

3183
03:57:09,600 --> 03:57:12,040
had a handful of these things. They were imported. They

3184
03:57:12,159 --> 03:57:16,959
had factories that were making some types of armored cars

3185
03:57:17,040 --> 03:57:20,239
and stuff like that, and tanks and repairing these, but

3186
03:57:20,440 --> 03:57:24,639
there weren't that many. It was pretty new. So when

3187
03:57:24,680 --> 03:57:27,719
you hear people talk about how Spain was the testing

3188
03:57:27,840 --> 03:57:30,319
ground for a lot of the weapons used in World

3189
03:57:30,360 --> 03:57:33,639
War Two, it's kind of true. But in a lot

3190
03:57:33,719 --> 03:57:36,639
of ways it was just because Spain didn't have much

3191
03:57:37,360 --> 03:57:39,760
of this sort of thing, so when the Italians and

3192
03:57:39,840 --> 03:57:45,479
Germans and Soviets brought them in, they would use them,

3193
03:57:45,879 --> 03:57:53,000
but to be candid. The Nationalists captured and used a

3194
03:57:53,159 --> 03:57:57,799
huge amount of the Soviet weapons as well, just because

3195
03:57:57,959 --> 03:58:00,559
they never had many of these rentals and they didn't

3196
03:58:00,639 --> 03:58:07,600
last long in the war, all right, So I mentioned

3197
03:58:07,840 --> 03:58:09,399
So that was the army, and now I'm going to

3198
03:58:09,479 --> 03:58:12,479
talk about like the Guardia Seville and then like one

3199
03:58:12,520 --> 03:58:16,399
of their subgroups, which is the Querpo de Segurida, the

3200
03:58:16,479 --> 03:58:20,479
eas Aalto, which is the Assault Guards. The Assault Guards

3201
03:58:20,639 --> 03:58:27,799
were a specialist crew that were selected because they were

3202
03:58:28,479 --> 03:58:34,239
very hardcore pro republic zelots that were very loyal to

3203
03:58:34,319 --> 03:58:38,079
the government. When the war kicked off, the Guardia Seville

3204
03:58:38,120 --> 03:58:42,040
as a whole split almost fifty to fifty between the

3205
03:58:42,159 --> 03:58:44,360
Nationalists and the Republicans. A lot of it depended on

3206
03:58:44,479 --> 03:58:49,000
where you were at where it come down to individual officers,

3207
03:58:49,479 --> 03:58:54,120
but also like as things split up, they tended to

3208
03:58:54,600 --> 03:58:58,959
stick with whoever the local authorities were. So but again

3209
03:58:59,159 --> 03:59:05,079
the Assault Guards were arch libtards, so they a very

3210
03:59:05,200 --> 03:59:09,639
long time ago they started acquiring forty four forty Winchester

3211
03:59:09,840 --> 03:59:13,719
eighteen seventy threes and seventy six is that were copied

3212
03:59:14,280 --> 03:59:17,120
up in Basque country, and then they had this very

3213
03:59:17,319 --> 03:59:21,440
popular copy of the eighteen ninety two that was adopted

3214
03:59:21,479 --> 03:59:25,879
in nineteen fifteen for the Guardia Seville and some like

3215
03:59:26,040 --> 03:59:29,680
forestry officers and stuff, and they were very popular in

3216
03:59:29,799 --> 03:59:34,159
civilian use. Over a million of them were made by

3217
03:59:34,239 --> 03:59:38,120
the time the war started. A lot of those were

3218
03:59:38,200 --> 03:59:42,680
shipped to like Central and South America, but there were

3219
03:59:42,719 --> 03:59:44,319
a lot of them in the war. So you'll see,

3220
03:59:44,479 --> 03:59:47,159
especially at the beginning of the war, you'll see a

3221
03:59:47,200 --> 03:59:51,479
lot of pictures of militiamen with this rifle or carbing.

3222
03:59:54,399 --> 04:00:00,440
They also used, you know, the Hotchkiss nineteen fourteen, nineteen

3223
04:00:00,479 --> 04:00:03,639
twenty two. Again this is military style police. They have

3224
04:00:03,760 --> 04:00:11,120
heavy weapons. They also used the Mouser rifles. They had

3225
04:00:11,200 --> 04:00:16,079
approved the Astra four hundred, but they also adopted the

3226
04:00:16,239 --> 04:00:20,239
Model A, which was very nineteen eleven style in layout

3227
04:00:20,719 --> 04:00:26,399
and look and feel in nine milimeters largo, so they

3228
04:00:26,479 --> 04:00:33,159
didn't they authorized usage and purchase of the four hundred,

3229
04:00:33,200 --> 04:00:36,920
but they issued the Model A in large numbers. And

3230
04:00:37,040 --> 04:00:43,440
then in nineteen thirty four the Assault Guards needed a

3231
04:00:43,559 --> 04:00:48,399
new weapon. They had trials for machine pistols because they

3232
04:00:48,479 --> 04:00:53,200
wanted to take advantage of this big industry up in

3233
04:00:53,280 --> 04:00:55,840
the north where they were making copies of the mouser

3234
04:00:55,879 --> 04:01:00,760
broom handle with automatic fire and removable magazine, and so

3235
04:01:00,879 --> 04:01:04,479
they had nine millimeter. They adopted the Astra model F

3236
04:01:04,600 --> 04:01:14,079
in nine millimeter Largo. In nineteen thirty four. The arms

3237
04:01:14,440 --> 04:01:19,840
factories up in the north were captured by the Basque

3238
04:01:20,000 --> 04:01:26,319
authorities who were aligned with the Republic, and Astra alone

3239
04:01:26,440 --> 04:01:35,200
contributed several thousand machine pistols and semi automatic broom handles

3240
04:01:36,440 --> 04:01:38,200
to the war. A lot of them were in seven

3241
04:01:38,280 --> 04:01:43,600
sixty three, and so they ran into logistics issues the

3242
04:01:44,000 --> 04:01:47,719
Nationalists as they captured them. They were trying to stay

3243
04:01:47,760 --> 04:01:54,520
on top of and stay resupplied through commercial arms dealers

3244
04:01:55,000 --> 04:01:57,680
bringing ammunition and stuff like that, and they had some

3245
04:01:57,879 --> 04:02:01,719
of that, but the the Nationalists actually used a whole

3246
04:02:01,760 --> 04:02:04,920
bunch of them in seven sixty three because they would

3247
04:02:04,959 --> 04:02:07,639
just order from they would get the ammo from the Germans,

3248
04:02:07,920 --> 04:02:14,719
so right, it makes sense, all right, So that covers

3249
04:02:15,879 --> 04:02:19,440
the official government. Most of those weapons that you saw

3250
04:02:19,520 --> 04:02:25,040
were the core weapons used during the war. Militia acquisitions

3251
04:02:25,079 --> 04:02:30,719
were different. This is a picture of Carlist militia in

3252
04:02:31,040 --> 04:02:35,399
late December nineteen thirty six, kind of in that Aragon

3253
04:02:35,600 --> 04:02:39,680
front up in the mountains. There you'll see some interesting

3254
04:02:39,760 --> 04:02:43,440
weapons they have. They have Spanish mausers, but then this

3255
04:02:43,879 --> 04:02:51,520
is a Solothorn light machine gun and they acquired a

3256
04:02:51,639 --> 04:02:56,840
couple hundred of these before the war started, specifically financed

3257
04:02:56,920 --> 04:03:03,440
by their own acquisition group in Broaden in Europe or

3258
04:03:03,559 --> 04:03:07,239
from Europe, i should say. So they had some decent

3259
04:03:07,360 --> 04:03:10,159
weapons and this was kind of the model for all

3260
04:03:10,200 --> 04:03:18,520
the different militious so the key focus, like pre war

3261
04:03:19,040 --> 04:03:25,559
jump off, they would typically have commercially available weapons and

3262
04:03:26,079 --> 04:03:30,600
that would mean either they purchase it legally, it came

3263
04:03:30,760 --> 04:03:35,639
from seizure of weapons that were purchased legally from individual

3264
04:03:35,760 --> 04:03:42,079
owners or rating depots or gun shops, you know, warehouses,

3265
04:03:42,760 --> 04:03:44,600
or another thing that they would do is they would

3266
04:03:44,639 --> 04:03:52,280
be redirected from exports. So again the commercial manufacturer was

3267
04:03:52,479 --> 04:03:55,440
mostly focused for the export market and there were a

3268
04:03:55,479 --> 04:03:58,440
lot of shenanigans where they would like do the old

3269
04:03:58,520 --> 04:04:01,520
switcheroo with shipping man manifests again with a wink and

3270
04:04:01,600 --> 04:04:05,600
a nod from from people who were sympathetic to this

3271
04:04:07,200 --> 04:04:11,120
and or you know, they would these big industrial concern

3272
04:04:11,280 --> 04:04:16,559
guys would arrange a or order through an arms dealer

3273
04:04:16,799 --> 04:04:23,280
in like Belgium of Mauser broom Handle copies and then

3274
04:04:23,319 --> 04:04:26,760
at the same time they would order a shipment from

3275
04:04:26,840 --> 04:04:32,799
Eyebar of like hardware to you know, Navar or something

3276
04:04:32,920 --> 04:04:36,280
like that. This is a specific example that happened. They

3277
04:04:36,360 --> 04:04:40,360
shipped switched around the shipping manifests and then shipped all

3278
04:04:40,440 --> 04:04:43,959
the mouser broom handles to Navarre and all the hardware

3279
04:04:44,040 --> 04:04:53,000
went to their complicit arms dealer in Belgium, clandestine purchased

3280
04:04:53,000 --> 04:04:55,639
overseas and smuggled in. But the very top is an

3281
04:04:56,040 --> 04:05:00,600
Arisaka rifle that was captured by the Russians in Russo

3282
04:05:00,760 --> 04:05:06,319
Japanese War, and the a bunch of them got dumped

3283
04:05:06,440 --> 04:05:13,000
onto the commercial market by the the Soviet Union selling

3284
04:05:13,079 --> 04:05:15,760
them after the Civil war kind of settled out because

3285
04:05:15,799 --> 04:05:19,639
they were kind of useless to them. They didn't always

3286
04:05:19,760 --> 04:05:25,120
keep everything that they acquired for redistribution of their own,

3287
04:05:25,200 --> 04:05:28,600
but they they tended to use these obsolete weapons to

3288
04:05:29,319 --> 04:05:33,719
to arm armed different groups that they wanted to support.

3289
04:05:33,920 --> 04:05:37,559
But a lot of that stuff was smuggled in in

3290
04:05:37,719 --> 04:05:42,559
various ways, again through various trickery or just brought over

3291
04:05:42,600 --> 04:05:49,959
the borders. Okay, so I'm not gonna I was thinking

3292
04:05:50,000 --> 04:05:52,200
about this, and this could have gotten too broad we

3293
04:05:52,239 --> 04:05:56,159
would have been looking at like, you know, German and

3294
04:05:56,319 --> 04:05:59,799
Italian small arms and tanks and everything like that, until

3295
04:05:59,840 --> 04:06:00,719
our eyes bled.

3296
04:06:02,120 --> 04:06:03,680
Speaker 1: There's tons, there's two.

3297
04:06:04,920 --> 04:06:08,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I decided to focus on what the Republic

3298
04:06:08,280 --> 04:06:14,319
was getting. The the shorthand of it is the Soviet

3299
04:06:14,479 --> 04:06:20,040
Union supplied a large force of modern vehicles and advisors

3300
04:06:20,719 --> 04:06:24,040
along with small arms, and the small arms were a

3301
04:06:24,120 --> 04:06:25,959
mixed bag. We're gonna we're gonna look at that in

3302
04:06:26,000 --> 04:06:27,879
a little more detail. Those began.

3303
04:06:29,600 --> 04:06:31,559
Speaker 1: Have you ever looked at have you ever looked into

3304
04:06:31,600 --> 04:06:35,079
the list of the names of the advisors? Yes? Have

3305
04:06:35,200 --> 04:06:38,600
you ever gone to their Wikipedia? Yes? Did I ever

3306
04:06:38,680 --> 04:06:43,440
look at their early life how like almost every single

3307
04:06:43,520 --> 04:06:46,879
one of them? Yes? Yes? And also, isn't isn't it

3308
04:06:47,000 --> 04:06:50,559
interesting how when most of them got back home they

3309
04:06:50,600 --> 04:06:52,399
were no longer Soviets or alive.

3310
04:06:53,079 --> 04:06:58,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's very strange. It's it. I think it's it.

3311
04:06:58,479 --> 04:07:01,399
I should do a deep dive on this object, because

3312
04:07:01,399 --> 04:07:05,600
it's I think it's very important to understand that. Like

3313
04:07:05,920 --> 04:07:12,159
Stalin was, I'm not going to do the whole gosh,

3314
04:07:12,280 --> 04:07:15,479
what's the what's the term the nickname that people have

3315
04:07:17,360 --> 04:07:20,239
nas ball. I'm not going to do the whole nationalist,

3316
04:07:21,200 --> 04:07:26,360
national socialist Bolshevik thing like it's retarded. But it is

3317
04:07:26,559 --> 04:07:34,799
really interesting how these kind of internationalist shock troops very

3318
04:07:35,760 --> 04:07:42,239
much were sent out to agitate elsewhere and not, you know,

3319
04:07:42,600 --> 04:07:46,520
not be around the Soviet Union as much as possible, right,

3320
04:07:47,079 --> 04:07:50,719
I think that's the briefest way to describe it. Yeah.

3321
04:07:50,760 --> 04:07:54,000
Speaker 1: And one thing that I didn't realize until I had

3322
04:07:55,319 --> 04:08:00,399
jol out of paul On was that he was Stalin

3323
04:08:00,520 --> 04:08:06,159
really wasn't extremely He really didn't care about that one

3324
04:08:06,319 --> 04:08:13,399
certain group too much. He cared more about groups that

3325
04:08:13,559 --> 04:08:18,520
were like diaspora groups like Poles or Germans, who were

3326
04:08:18,799 --> 04:08:21,639
who were in there, who could who could collude with

3327
04:08:21,719 --> 04:08:23,959
their home countries. Yes, those are the ones he went

3328
04:08:24,000 --> 04:08:28,639
and executed. It wasn't until Israel became starting to exist

3329
04:08:28,760 --> 04:08:31,639
that he was that there was a certain focus because

3330
04:08:32,079 --> 04:08:35,479
what is it now, this is the di Ospar group yep,

3331
04:08:35,600 --> 04:08:38,360
that that can be a threat to the Soviet Union.

3332
04:08:38,639 --> 04:08:42,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he could he could control or direct their energy. Again,

3333
04:08:42,719 --> 04:08:46,280
just like you said, send them in the international brigades

3334
04:08:46,559 --> 04:08:51,040
or as quote unquote advisors out into the world to

3335
04:08:51,159 --> 04:08:56,040
do their thing. Again. They're they're their own kind of group,

3336
04:08:56,719 --> 04:08:58,479
But as long as they're doing the work that he

3337
04:08:58,600 --> 04:09:00,879
wants them to do, they're like not a threat, right.

3338
04:09:03,559 --> 04:09:07,680
But at the same time, the whole cleanup that took

3339
04:09:07,760 --> 04:09:11,479
place is very interesting and it seems very nuanced, like

3340
04:09:12,040 --> 04:09:15,200
could could these people these people kind of having a

3341
04:09:15,239 --> 04:09:20,000
spree de corps and it's it's its own thing, and

3342
04:09:20,079 --> 04:09:22,479
then they come back and they could be a separate faction,

3343
04:09:22,719 --> 04:09:26,159
and I don't want a separate faction going on in

3344
04:09:26,719 --> 04:09:27,280
my country.

3345
04:09:28,600 --> 04:09:32,840
Speaker 1: So it's interesting, or there could be you know, the

3346
04:09:32,920 --> 04:09:34,479
thing of well you're lost.

3347
04:09:35,200 --> 04:09:36,760
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true. That's true.

3348
04:09:37,840 --> 04:09:39,559
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm not saying that what you were

3349
04:09:39,639 --> 04:09:42,559
talking about was, I'm saying all of it. You know,

3350
04:09:42,719 --> 04:09:43,360
why not both?

3351
04:09:43,680 --> 04:09:47,959
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes? Why not? Yeah? Yeah, why not both porque nolostos.

3352
04:09:49,600 --> 04:09:55,920
So it's really interesting because so when in July nineteen

3353
04:09:56,000 --> 04:09:59,600
thirty six, when the military uprising happens and it takes

3354
04:09:59,639 --> 04:10:03,239
a little you know, it has its fits and starts.

3355
04:10:03,680 --> 04:10:03,760
Speaker 1: The.

3356
04:10:05,600 --> 04:10:14,760
Speaker 2: Soviet Union already had international like internationals lined up and organizing,

3357
04:10:15,239 --> 04:10:18,280
and they had all these weapons ready to go, and

3358
04:10:18,680 --> 04:10:24,280
they were arriving almost instantly, and so you know, for

3359
04:10:24,760 --> 04:10:29,120
there to be a reaction and for something to spin

3360
04:10:29,239 --> 04:10:32,959
up from nothing like it really shows and goes to

3361
04:10:33,040 --> 04:10:40,239
emphasize the fact that they the Soviet International, had plans

3362
04:10:40,559 --> 04:10:43,520
and had connections with all of these different you know,

3363
04:10:44,760 --> 04:10:47,840
people in government and all these other countries, and they

3364
04:10:48,639 --> 04:10:52,520
expected this to happen at any point because they had

3365
04:10:53,559 --> 04:10:59,520
ships loaded with weapons and ammunition and vehicles and fuel

3366
04:11:00,040 --> 04:11:04,520
headed straight to Spain, like right away they were they

3367
04:11:04,600 --> 04:11:08,159
were landing the turnaround time for this like you never

3368
04:11:08,239 --> 04:11:12,040
would have for you to believe that this they just

3369
04:11:12,239 --> 04:11:16,040
reacted to. This is hilarious. And you see this all

3370
04:11:16,120 --> 04:11:19,239
the time in the in the lefty right ups on

3371
04:11:19,360 --> 04:11:22,319
the subject. It's so obvious that they were ready to

3372
04:11:22,399 --> 04:11:27,319
go that now in fairness to get the international volunteers

3373
04:11:27,600 --> 04:11:30,559
spun up logistically that took a while, but they were

3374
04:11:30,719 --> 04:11:34,879
arriving at the same time, so you know, there were

3375
04:11:34,879 --> 04:11:39,000
a lot of people that didn't volunteer until like a

3376
04:11:39,120 --> 04:11:43,040
couple of weeks after the uprising happened. In this in

3377
04:11:43,120 --> 04:11:47,600
the Civil War began and they already had systems to

3378
04:11:47,680 --> 04:11:51,840
plug into to get to Spain, how coincidental, and a

3379
04:11:51,920 --> 04:11:56,360
lot of that came through France. Paris was the headquarters

3380
04:11:56,479 --> 04:12:02,360
for the the Soviet International that was managing the international

3381
04:12:02,440 --> 04:12:07,639
brigades officially, like most of the brigades were going through France.

3382
04:12:08,159 --> 04:12:16,799
So France was France down and played its participation. Their

3383
04:12:16,959 --> 04:12:23,239
big thing was administering arm shipments and people and aircraft

3384
04:12:23,360 --> 04:12:26,360
and fuel. They were providing a lot of their air

3385
04:12:26,440 --> 04:12:30,079
force's aircraft and fuel and bombs and ammunition and stuff

3386
04:12:30,159 --> 04:12:34,319
like that. But their most important role was just facilitating

3387
04:12:34,399 --> 04:12:36,920
the flow through. They would open it up and close

3388
04:12:36,959 --> 04:12:41,000
it off, and there's all this stuff in you know,

3389
04:12:42,200 --> 04:12:48,079
Libtard and you know, even Bevor talks a lot about

3390
04:12:48,200 --> 04:12:51,520
like the party line of like, oh, France, you should

3391
04:12:51,520 --> 04:12:54,000
have helped the republic more. But they were getting a

3392
04:12:54,079 --> 04:12:57,000
huge amount of pressure. There was this whole non intervention

3393
04:12:57,239 --> 04:13:01,079
packed element and stuff like that. France is breaking the rules.

3394
04:13:02,000 --> 04:13:04,680
You know that everyone had agreed on Soviets where the

3395
04:13:04,760 --> 04:13:08,719
Germans and Italians were right, like the Americans and British

3396
04:13:08,760 --> 04:13:12,479
were allowing you know, trucks and tires and fuel to

3397
04:13:12,600 --> 04:13:16,840
go to the nationalists. So it's everyone lying and pretending

3398
04:13:16,959 --> 04:13:20,399
that they're following the rules, just like happened so often

3399
04:13:20,479 --> 04:13:27,520
in the twentieth century. So let's talk very briefly Soviet armor,

3400
04:13:27,920 --> 04:13:31,719
huge game changer happens, and like a lot of firsts

3401
04:13:31,879 --> 04:13:35,719
happen in nineteen thirty six in Spain, or at least

3402
04:13:35,719 --> 04:13:41,520
supposed firsts. So the up at the top is b

3403
04:13:41,840 --> 04:13:47,479
A three slash six. It's a it's a Soviet armored

3404
04:13:47,559 --> 04:13:50,879
car that has a turret, the same turret as the

3405
04:13:51,040 --> 04:13:53,920
T twenty six tank turret and gun, I should say,

3406
04:13:54,680 --> 04:13:59,120
and the same turret as the BT five down below,

3407
04:14:00,040 --> 04:14:06,040
which is a light tank. So if if everyone remembers correctly, so,

3408
04:14:06,360 --> 04:14:11,680
under the Treaty of Versailles, Germany couldn't develop certain kinds

3409
04:14:11,760 --> 04:14:19,079
of vehicles and military weapons or build them. And so

3410
04:14:20,319 --> 04:14:22,520
you may or may not know that they were doing

3411
04:14:22,559 --> 04:14:25,639
a lot of development work in the Soviet Union because

3412
04:14:25,680 --> 04:14:30,440
the Soviet Union was also under certain types of sanctions

3413
04:14:30,479 --> 04:14:35,559
and restrictions at the same time. So the funny mustache

3414
04:14:35,639 --> 04:14:39,360
Man and even people before Funny Mustache Man in their

3415
04:14:39,440 --> 04:14:43,719
military were doing these secret the secret work in a

3416
04:14:43,879 --> 04:14:48,200
quote unquote tractor factory in the Soviet Union. So a

3417
04:14:48,319 --> 04:14:53,440
lot of the development of these weapons was kind of

3418
04:14:53,520 --> 04:14:56,319
collaborative between those countries, but they ended up going in

3419
04:14:57,799 --> 04:15:02,959
some pretty different directions. The armored car up at the

3420
04:15:03,040 --> 04:15:05,840
top was based on I believe it was a Ford

3421
04:15:07,239 --> 04:15:13,840
a Ford design that was being manufactured. They provided it

3422
04:15:13,920 --> 04:15:16,760
as aid and then they then it turned was turned

3423
04:15:16,799 --> 04:15:20,719
into an armored car. Anyway, the Soviets built a lot

3424
04:15:20,840 --> 04:15:24,200
of these things, and so between the two, it's like

3425
04:15:25,000 --> 04:15:27,239
the the tank is the most flexible in terms of

3426
04:15:27,319 --> 04:15:30,319
the terrain. It can go over uh. The armored car

3427
04:15:30,719 --> 04:15:33,760
is best on roads, but it can go a lot faster,

3428
04:15:34,440 --> 04:15:37,959
lighter armor, while still having a fair bit of firepower.

3429
04:15:38,360 --> 04:15:43,959
So these in the battle like right before they got

3430
04:15:44,000 --> 04:15:50,559
to Madrid, so north of north of you know, the

3431
04:15:50,639 --> 04:15:54,200
Battle of the al Kazar, they start that the Army

3432
04:15:54,239 --> 04:15:59,719
of Africa starts running into these these tanks and armored cars. Uh,

3433
04:16:00,200 --> 04:16:05,159
the kind of the southern periphery of the plane that

3434
04:16:05,360 --> 04:16:08,239
Madrid sits on in the very middle of the country.

3435
04:16:08,879 --> 04:16:13,440
And so you get the first, supposedly the first Molotov

3436
04:16:13,559 --> 04:16:20,079
cocktail deployment by nationalists, you know, fire bottle style. I'm

3437
04:16:20,200 --> 04:16:22,799
skeptical that that was the first time, but the name

3438
04:16:23,399 --> 04:16:27,040
Molotov cocktail came out because General Molotov was what you know,

3439
04:16:27,600 --> 04:16:29,879
said hey, we need to have this be like kind

3440
04:16:29,879 --> 04:16:34,360
of a standard plan for urban warfare and anti tank stuff.

3441
04:16:34,440 --> 04:16:39,319
The general idea was that the if you throw burning

3442
04:16:39,479 --> 04:16:43,479
fuel on top of the kind of the air intakes

3443
04:16:43,559 --> 04:16:46,440
for the engines for these tanks, you can slow them

3444
04:16:46,520 --> 04:16:50,680
down or disable them. So lots of crazy tank battles.

3445
04:16:51,239 --> 04:16:54,440
They don't have good anti armor weapons. They eventually get

3446
04:16:55,040 --> 04:16:58,440
the Germans and the Soviets make them available, and it's

3447
04:16:58,520 --> 04:17:02,280
literally just these like hank guns thirty seven and forty

3448
04:17:02,760 --> 04:17:06,120
forty five millimeter I think on the German one. But

3449
04:17:06,879 --> 04:17:09,559
and then the Germans of course go full retard with

3450
04:17:09,719 --> 04:17:13,879
like exotic optics, and the Soviets just use basic iron

3451
04:17:13,959 --> 04:17:16,399
sights that are fine for the ranges that are involved.

3452
04:17:16,520 --> 04:17:22,239
So the general decision that the nationalists came to was

3453
04:17:22,360 --> 04:17:26,159
that in general the Soviet ones were better because they

3454
04:17:26,200 --> 04:17:33,479
were simpler and they were just as good. So important

3455
04:17:33,479 --> 04:17:35,600
thing to think about, I think. So anyway, that was

3456
04:17:35,639 --> 04:17:37,799
the only departure that I really wanted to have with

3457
04:17:37,959 --> 04:17:45,559
small arms. The other thing that the Republic gets is

3458
04:17:46,319 --> 04:17:49,319
cast offs from the Red Army. So the Red Army

3459
04:17:50,680 --> 04:17:54,520
if we go back to World War One again, I'm

3460
04:17:54,559 --> 04:17:56,399
not going to put on the Putin hat, but if

3461
04:17:56,440 --> 04:17:57,959
we go back to World War one, there were a

3462
04:17:58,000 --> 04:18:01,479
couple of things that were going on that as the Russians,

3463
04:18:01,879 --> 04:18:06,079
the Imperial Russian Army was gearing up again massive army,

3464
04:18:06,319 --> 04:18:09,600
they were going all over the place to acquire as

3465
04:18:10,120 --> 04:18:14,680
much as they could get in terms of firearms for

3466
04:18:14,840 --> 04:18:19,120
their army and any equipment as was as could be had.

3467
04:18:20,239 --> 04:18:23,680
This is an interesting picture because we have here a

3468
04:18:23,959 --> 04:18:29,600
modern check or Polish egg style fragmentation grenade that this

3469
04:18:29,799 --> 04:18:36,959
guy's throwing, and he's using a French like, really crappy,

3470
04:18:37,319 --> 04:18:43,000
obsolete single shot eight millimeters rifle from the previous century,

3471
04:18:45,559 --> 04:18:51,159
and I think that's a Polish helmet. So that the

3472
04:18:51,399 --> 04:18:55,559
Red Army had this thing. Where as they went through

3473
04:18:55,920 --> 04:18:59,239
all this World War One weapon weaponry, some of it

3474
04:18:59,360 --> 04:19:02,239
was stuff they had captured, Some of it was stuff

3475
04:19:02,280 --> 04:19:06,159
that they captured the in the twenties, right in the

3476
04:19:06,280 --> 04:19:09,120
late teens in the twenties as they were running around

3477
04:19:09,159 --> 04:19:14,079
Eastern Europe. Others were were these old weapons that the

3478
04:19:14,360 --> 04:19:19,799
Imperial Russian Army acquired to gear up just to have anything.

3479
04:19:20,920 --> 04:19:24,040
The left hand side here is one of my favorites,

3480
04:19:24,079 --> 04:19:27,559
and one of my characters uses this rifle. So this

3481
04:19:27,680 --> 04:19:31,760
is a Winchester eighteen ninety five. The Imperial Russian Army

3482
04:19:31,840 --> 04:19:37,760
went to America, like went up into like Connecticut in

3483
04:19:38,360 --> 04:19:42,559
during the war and said we need seven sixty two

3484
04:19:42,639 --> 04:19:50,799
by fifty four rifles, like Westinghouse and Remington were building

3485
04:19:51,079 --> 04:19:56,120
the Mosa Negant for them to their standard. A whole

3486
04:19:56,159 --> 04:19:59,680
bunch of those got surplused because they were rejected by

3487
04:19:59,719 --> 04:20:04,360
the and Imperial Inspectors because like the wood wasn't pretty

3488
04:20:04,479 --> 04:20:07,399
enough and stuff like that. It's totally bizarre, but they

3489
04:20:07,440 --> 04:20:10,879
got several hundred thousand of these eighteen ninety five lever

3490
04:20:11,040 --> 04:20:15,000
actions in seven sixty by fifty four. They're fed by

3491
04:20:15,079 --> 04:20:20,719
a stripper clip through the top. Beautiful, long, cool rifles,

3492
04:20:22,200 --> 04:20:27,280
very nice. But the Soviet Army was focused on standardization

3493
04:20:27,440 --> 04:20:30,120
and modernizing. They didn't want to use old, worn out rifles.

3494
04:20:30,479 --> 04:20:34,040
So what happened was kind of people on the outskirts

3495
04:20:34,399 --> 04:20:37,239
of the Soviet Union were getting these rifles. So they

3496
04:20:37,239 --> 04:20:44,479
were using them in uprisings in in Finland and in

3497
04:20:44,600 --> 04:20:50,680
the Balkans and the Baltics especially, and they sent like

3498
04:20:51,000 --> 04:20:54,159
thirty four thousand of them to Spain. And there's a

3499
04:20:54,200 --> 04:21:00,719
whole bunch that the Spanish government were least in like

3500
04:21:00,879 --> 04:21:04,399
the sixties and seventies, I want to say, onto the

3501
04:21:04,600 --> 04:21:09,280
US market through inter arms. So some of the best

3502
04:21:09,680 --> 04:21:13,280
we have intelligence documents in photographs that are available online

3503
04:21:13,319 --> 04:21:17,639
that I'll put a link to that the nationalists did

3504
04:21:17,760 --> 04:21:20,399
during and especially after the war, where they were accounting

3505
04:21:20,479 --> 04:21:24,360
for like everywhere all these weapons came from, because that

3506
04:21:24,479 --> 04:21:26,239
what they wanted to do is figure out where these

3507
04:21:26,319 --> 04:21:28,959
weapons were coming from, who was supplying them, because they

3508
04:21:29,000 --> 04:21:33,399
were appealing to like the British and Americans and plus

3509
04:21:33,520 --> 04:21:38,719
these non intervention groups, you know, these governmental organizations that

3510
04:21:38,879 --> 04:21:43,680
are multinational organizations to monitor this stuff because they wanted

3511
04:21:43,680 --> 04:21:45,479
to cut down on the amount of weapons that were

3512
04:21:45,520 --> 04:21:49,879
coming in so anyway, so they were documenting where all

3513
04:21:49,920 --> 04:21:52,360
this stuff was coming from. So we know that this

3514
04:21:52,479 --> 04:21:55,120
came from the Soviets. We know these LaBelle rifles and

3515
04:21:55,159 --> 04:21:59,360
stuff were coming from the Soviets from again these old

3516
04:21:59,719 --> 04:22:08,639
war World War One stockpiles. They also had arms dealers

3517
04:22:09,040 --> 04:22:15,680
who were sending Polish baars to the Republic. In nineteen

3518
04:22:15,760 --> 04:22:20,000
thirty six Enfield rifles that had been captured by the

3519
04:22:20,159 --> 04:22:26,040
Germans that had ended up like in weird in weird

3520
04:22:26,239 --> 04:22:30,360
spots with arms dealers somehow, like the Germans and maybe

3521
04:22:30,520 --> 04:22:33,040
unloaded them or put them in warehouses and they weren't

3522
04:22:33,079 --> 04:22:37,719
found until later. Like Ross rifles from Canada from World

3523
04:22:37,760 --> 04:22:41,040
War two or excuse me, world War one that somehow

3524
04:22:41,239 --> 04:22:47,399
ended up in Belgium or in France. They had LaBelle rifles.

3525
04:22:47,520 --> 04:22:52,479
They had Bergmann light machine guns coming in in seven

3526
04:22:52,639 --> 04:22:56,520
ninety two. They had eight millimeter manlature like all this

3527
04:22:56,719 --> 04:23:01,520
Austrio Hungarian stuff was floating around, and so they were

3528
04:23:01,559 --> 04:23:07,200
shipping it there like all kinds of crazy calibers. And

3529
04:23:07,360 --> 04:23:13,079
then so the Berth the a eight millimeter Lebel's all

3530
04:23:13,280 --> 04:23:16,399
this crap that no one wants, and they're getting ammunition

3531
04:23:16,600 --> 04:23:20,079
with it. But that's like all the ammunition that's available.

3532
04:23:20,120 --> 04:23:24,520
So you know, Pete, when you know, there isn't much

3533
04:23:24,840 --> 04:23:27,040
like World War one and World War two stuff that

3534
04:23:27,200 --> 04:23:30,200
still shows up on the market commercially. But when it

3535
04:23:30,319 --> 04:23:33,600
comes in like it usually comes in with like all

3536
04:23:33,719 --> 04:23:36,000
the ammunition they have in that caliber, and then it

3537
04:23:36,159 --> 04:23:38,760
stops like you never see it again. So you have

3538
04:23:38,879 --> 04:23:43,959
to order it from you know, these European small manufacturers

3539
04:23:44,079 --> 04:23:46,879
for like thirty dollars a box for twenty rounds and

3540
04:23:46,920 --> 04:23:51,520
stuff like that. That was what logistically was taking place

3541
04:23:52,159 --> 04:23:56,239
with all these old random weapons except seven sixty two

3542
04:23:56,280 --> 04:24:06,079
by fifty four Mosa Negant and Maxim machine guns. Like

3543
04:24:06,239 --> 04:24:09,760
this old worn out stuff. It was obsolescent, but still

3544
04:24:09,799 --> 04:24:12,959
good quality stuff. The Red Army had moved on. They

3545
04:24:13,000 --> 04:24:17,159
were focusing on building new stuff and going in different directions,

3546
04:24:17,200 --> 04:24:21,280
so the old stuff was going to Spain. These pictures

3547
04:24:21,319 --> 04:24:23,959
are from the Battle of the Ebro, or around the

3548
04:24:24,000 --> 04:24:26,760
time of the Battle of the Ebro, and at this

3549
04:24:26,920 --> 04:24:30,559
point all those old weapons had in all their ammunition,

3550
04:24:30,840 --> 04:24:33,879
like all the weird French stuff, all the weird Austrian stuff,

3551
04:24:34,239 --> 04:24:37,280
like most of that stuff had been used up by

3552
04:24:37,360 --> 04:24:39,479
the time of this battle or it was being held

3553
04:24:39,600 --> 04:24:45,399
in reserves. They were really logistically like the seven sixty

3554
04:24:45,399 --> 04:24:48,879
two x fifty four Soviet stuff was the big focus

3555
04:24:49,040 --> 04:24:52,159
in that war or that part of the war. Additionally,

3556
04:24:53,159 --> 04:24:57,440
with that commercial acquisition and aid. So this is a

3557
04:24:58,280 --> 04:25:05,440
check a check Mauser in eight millimeter. There was a

3558
04:25:05,479 --> 04:25:09,360
bunch of that too, and then our friend the FN

3559
04:25:09,520 --> 04:25:14,840
nineteen twenty two thirty two automatic. The International Brigades and

3560
04:25:16,040 --> 04:25:20,719
a lot of the Republican forces that you'll see in

3561
04:25:20,840 --> 04:25:24,639
this Battle of Ebro, they have eight millimeter for the

3562
04:25:25,000 --> 04:25:28,319
main guys on the offensive. They have eight millimeter Mausers

3563
04:25:28,680 --> 04:25:35,719
and eight millimeter bars and eight millimeter brend guns, you know,

3564
04:25:35,840 --> 04:25:42,920
the check ones, the you know, all this kind of

3565
04:25:43,000 --> 04:25:45,600
like random stuff where they have the logistics for it.

3566
04:25:46,120 --> 04:25:50,479
They kind of dial it in to where they're by unit.

3567
04:25:50,840 --> 04:25:54,479
The units are using the same weapons and they're is

3568
04:25:54,600 --> 04:25:56,680
standardized as much as they can, but they have to

3569
04:25:56,799 --> 04:25:59,680
use what they have. And you'll see tons and tons

3570
04:25:59,760 --> 04:26:05,120
and of the officers, whether they're international units or they're

3571
04:26:06,040 --> 04:26:12,440
the uh, the Republic's officers with f N nineteen twenty

3572
04:26:12,479 --> 04:26:16,680
two pistols because of huge acquisitions of those that were

3573
04:26:16,719 --> 04:26:21,559
all down there hanging out in like Catalonia ready to go.

3574
04:26:22,520 --> 04:26:28,200
So again, another weird thing that happened is like Mexico,

3575
04:26:28,319 --> 04:26:31,200
which had a socialist government at the time, sent a

3576
04:26:31,239 --> 04:26:34,760
whole bunch of Mozen negants that they had acquired. They

3577
04:26:34,799 --> 04:26:39,959
had bought a bunch of those the American made Mosa

3578
04:26:40,040 --> 04:26:43,959
negants and used it themselves like during their civil war

3579
04:26:45,159 --> 04:26:48,520
and you know, in the twenties, and then they shipped

3580
04:26:48,520 --> 04:26:51,000
a ton of them over. They sent a whole bunch

3581
04:26:51,040 --> 04:26:54,600
of seven millimeter Mauser rifles because they were kind of

3582
04:26:54,639 --> 04:26:59,200
going in a different direction, there were sanitized Polish mausers.

3583
04:26:59,239 --> 04:27:02,239
So the Poles, we're selling them just from money and

3584
04:27:02,399 --> 04:27:05,440
sanitizing them by like milling out the markings and the

3585
04:27:05,559 --> 04:27:09,319
crests that showed that they were Polish. And then again,

3586
04:27:09,440 --> 04:27:12,360
like I said, those Czech commercial weapons and stuff like that.

3587
04:27:12,719 --> 04:27:15,600
So it's this crazy time. There's all this World War

3588
04:27:15,719 --> 04:27:21,600
One surplus, there's all this other even pre World War

3589
04:27:21,680 --> 04:27:25,399
one surplus. All this stuff captured in World War One

3590
04:27:26,040 --> 04:27:31,399
flows through different arms dealers, and a lot of it

3591
04:27:31,639 --> 04:27:35,040
is the Russians are doing. The Soviets are doing an

3592
04:27:35,120 --> 04:27:39,680
awful lot of that. Like the real bulk, huge orders

3593
04:27:39,719 --> 04:27:42,079
of stuff we're coming from the Soviets. But there was

3594
04:27:42,159 --> 04:27:46,319
some interesting, like pretty high end new stuff coming from

3595
04:27:46,760 --> 04:27:52,959
from Poland and the Czech Republic as well. So that

3596
04:27:53,319 --> 04:27:57,840
brings us to you know, like, let's cement this in time.

3597
04:27:58,479 --> 04:28:03,319
We're done with my gun on autism. And you've seen

3598
04:28:03,440 --> 04:28:06,360
me share this map before, but here I have a

3599
04:28:06,440 --> 04:28:12,840
slightly different talk track. So as you'll remember, the military uprising,

3600
04:28:12,920 --> 04:28:17,159
So the nationalist uprising is most successful in the conservative

3601
04:28:17,239 --> 04:28:21,280
parts of Spain and as well as like military certain

3602
04:28:21,360 --> 04:28:27,559
military strongholds, it was often Squashington street fighting by leftist militias.

3603
04:28:28,200 --> 04:28:33,719
So like Barcelonas and Tander, Toledo and Madrid, control of

3604
04:28:33,799 --> 04:28:39,239
the arsenals and factories absolutely critical. So if you have

3605
04:28:39,680 --> 04:28:43,920
control of those domestic sources of those weapons, that makes

3606
04:28:43,959 --> 04:28:46,760
the difference between being able to field people for actual

3607
04:28:46,879 --> 04:28:52,159
fighting as well as continued production. So that logistical nightmare

3608
04:28:52,280 --> 04:28:57,440
that the Nationalists did a much better job of securing

3609
04:28:57,520 --> 04:29:00,440
the arsenals and the factories, and so there were public

3610
04:29:00,600 --> 04:29:03,399
was left on the back foot where they ended up.

3611
04:29:03,639 --> 04:29:06,559
You know, like I showed they had like small and

3612
04:29:06,719 --> 04:29:11,799
local manufacturer stuff, but like Barcelona, like two million cartridges

3613
04:29:11,920 --> 04:29:15,159
being produced was this big deal. Like two million cartridges

3614
04:29:15,280 --> 04:29:18,959
is nothing in a real war. That was like the

3615
04:29:19,079 --> 04:29:22,879
best they could do. So they were super dependent on imports.

3616
04:29:24,680 --> 04:29:29,840
And again so that's why I emphasized the Republic's imported weapons.

3617
04:29:30,840 --> 04:29:34,319
So again the left militias were largely equipped by what

3618
04:29:34,479 --> 04:29:38,079
they brought, what they could bring to the fight. All

3619
04:29:38,120 --> 04:29:41,079
those random like small weapons or stuff that was smuggled

3620
04:29:41,120 --> 04:29:45,280
over handguns, grenades they made unless they could capture arsenals

3621
04:29:45,360 --> 04:29:48,799
or persuade the Republic for release weapons Like in Madrid,

3622
04:29:49,360 --> 04:29:52,399
there's this whole drama of the back and forth for

3623
04:29:52,719 --> 04:29:58,399
like months before the at least a month before Asagna

3624
04:29:58,840 --> 04:30:06,639
releases the arsenal to the leftist militias, and then they're

3625
04:30:06,799 --> 04:30:11,399
able to actually fight at that point. So, yeah, that

3626
04:30:11,719 --> 04:30:17,360
wraps up what I had prepared. Hail Franco, haile victory.

3627
04:30:19,920 --> 04:30:27,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's uh, I think the most the Carlists having

3628
04:30:28,000 --> 04:30:32,399
been so organized before the war even kicked off, Yes,

3629
04:30:32,879 --> 04:30:38,680
really stands out. And then the Republicans having everything ready

3630
04:30:38,760 --> 04:30:41,799
to go. You know, it's almost like the It's almost

3631
04:30:41,840 --> 04:30:47,000
like the Carliss The Carlists knew before and were better

3632
04:30:47,079 --> 04:30:50,200
equipped for what was coming than any of the other

3633
04:30:50,319 --> 04:30:51,040
groups on the right.

3634
04:30:52,399 --> 04:30:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, even the military in a lot of places, like

3635
04:30:54,959 --> 04:31:01,639
the military's weaponry, it was so dispersed, and the Carlists

3636
04:31:02,200 --> 04:31:05,239
just came loaded for bear with. Do you remember me

3637
04:31:05,360 --> 04:31:09,360
talking about their military advisor, Don Pepe, who was running

3638
04:31:09,399 --> 04:31:12,719
around and equipping them. He had been He was basically

3639
04:31:12,799 --> 04:31:19,440
a spec ops guy who was running around Europe for

3640
04:31:20,399 --> 04:31:25,200
during the twenties and in the thirties, even under the Republic,

3641
04:31:25,840 --> 04:31:33,479
learning about state of the art military organization, structured employment,

3642
04:31:33,760 --> 04:31:38,399
and then advanced weaponry. So he was advising and helping

3643
04:31:38,520 --> 04:31:42,920
direct that, which is why the Carlists had the latest stuff.

3644
04:31:43,280 --> 04:31:45,639
They had old stuff too, like they have art in

3645
04:31:45,719 --> 04:31:48,920
a lot of cases like arisakas and stuff. But they

3646
04:31:48,959 --> 04:31:53,399
also had tons of light machine guns to start off,

3647
04:31:53,840 --> 04:31:56,879
you know, relative relative to everyone else. So yeah, they

3648
04:31:56,920 --> 04:32:00,840
were ready to go. And again going back to that map,

3649
04:32:02,200 --> 04:32:05,559
which I will go back to here, that's how they

3650
04:32:05,680 --> 04:32:10,879
secured this huge swath. They split the key republican zones

3651
04:32:11,639 --> 04:32:15,000
because this is where so many of the weapons were manufactured.

3652
04:32:15,360 --> 04:32:20,399
You'll see a Karunya and then Oviedo is is an exception.

3653
04:32:20,559 --> 04:32:27,760
It's in blue because it's nationalist. Yeah, so very very important,

3654
04:32:29,639 --> 04:32:33,600
important thing to think about again, as we look at

3655
04:32:33,680 --> 04:32:38,520
the theoretical like nothing ever happens type people like you

3656
04:32:38,680 --> 04:32:40,959
have to have plans and you and you have to

3657
04:32:41,079 --> 04:32:44,239
think at what's been done in the past and what's

3658
04:32:44,319 --> 04:32:49,440
worked in the past, and and think think about logistics.

3659
04:32:51,799 --> 04:32:55,159
It's not just it's not just fun with autism, although

3660
04:32:55,200 --> 04:32:57,959
I love that stuff. I would also say again I

3661
04:32:58,120 --> 04:33:00,920
highly recommend that people check out my article on the

3662
04:33:02,680 --> 04:33:07,959
the commercial or military and artisanal hand grenades of the

3663
04:33:08,040 --> 04:33:12,159
Spanish Civil War on my substack. It goes into detail

3664
04:33:12,400 --> 04:33:15,639
about the the c nt f AI production and that

3665
04:33:15,720 --> 04:33:19,799
whole history there. There's almost nothing in English on that

3666
04:33:19,919 --> 04:33:24,799
subject until like very recently, I've seen some translations of

3667
04:33:25,560 --> 04:33:30,560
Spanish stuff go into like wikis, like little tiny blurbs.

3668
04:33:31,080 --> 04:33:35,919
But that's another thing to think about when you're thinking

3669
04:33:36,000 --> 04:33:40,159
of lowfully legal, fun theoretical educational activities.

3670
04:33:42,799 --> 04:33:48,000
Speaker 1: Well awesome, Carl, of course, I'm going to include the links,

3671
04:33:48,080 --> 04:33:51,200
but remind everybody else where they can find. You've already

3672
04:33:51,240 --> 04:33:53,759
mentioned the substack. Give them the address and everything.

3673
04:33:54,200 --> 04:33:58,400
Speaker 2: Yes, Carl Dahl k A R L d A h

3674
04:33:58,799 --> 04:34:02,799
L dot s stack dot com. I'm also on Twitter,

3675
04:34:04,040 --> 04:34:05,799
but just look for Carl Dahl and you'll be able

3676
04:34:05,799 --> 04:34:07,520
to find me that way. I have one of those

3677
04:34:07,880 --> 04:34:11,200
unfortunate names because Twitter is evil, so.

3678
04:34:13,599 --> 04:34:14,319
Speaker 1: I appreciate it.

3679
04:34:14,479 --> 04:34:15,919
Speaker 2: Thank you, Thanks Pete.

3680
04:34:17,880 --> 04:34:20,720
Speaker 1: I want to welcome everyone to part seven of my

3681
04:34:20,959 --> 04:34:27,680
reading of Warren H. Carroll's The Last Crusade, and for

3682
04:34:27,799 --> 04:34:30,759
the first reading of this series that I've been doing,

3683
04:34:31,360 --> 04:34:34,919
my sixth book, I have a guest, Carl Dahl. How

3684
04:34:35,040 --> 04:34:36,759
you doing? Call doing well, Pete.

3685
04:34:36,799 --> 04:34:37,000
Speaker 2: Thank you.

3686
04:34:37,959 --> 04:34:41,319
Speaker 1: When I had John recently, your knowledge of the war,

3687
04:34:42,080 --> 04:34:44,759
the fact that you learned a lot of Spanish, so

3688
04:34:44,840 --> 04:34:48,919
you can read books that aren't available in English. I

3689
04:34:49,000 --> 04:34:52,200
think that that impresses me. It's impressing a lot of people.

3690
04:34:52,759 --> 04:34:55,040
And as I said in a subject that I did

3691
04:34:55,119 --> 04:34:58,000
this week, I think that we really need to study

3692
04:34:58,080 --> 04:35:04,159
this this topic for numerous reasons. One that I will

3693
04:35:04,240 --> 04:35:06,479
just throw out there right off is that the good

3694
04:35:06,520 --> 04:35:10,799
guys won, and the good guys really only one twice

3695
04:35:10,880 --> 04:35:13,439
in the twentieth century, and the other one you don't

3696
04:35:13,520 --> 04:35:15,720
hear about because it happened in Finland.

3697
04:35:16,560 --> 04:35:19,599
Speaker 2: Yes, well that's a really good point, and you're talking

3698
04:35:19,680 --> 04:35:25,319
about the first time around. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Yeah, So

3699
04:35:25,919 --> 04:35:29,159
all right, yeah, let's get this going. You've if you've

3700
04:35:29,240 --> 04:35:31,479
heard any of my read alongs with other people, you

3701
04:35:31,639 --> 04:35:35,279
know that jump in and stop me anytime you got it.

3702
04:35:36,599 --> 04:35:38,639
Speaker 1: See, we're going to spoil people with this one. I

3703
04:35:38,720 --> 04:35:43,720
want people to know my readings, the readings I've been

3704
04:35:43,799 --> 04:35:49,799
doing are literally me just because I have I have

3705
04:35:49,919 --> 04:35:52,599
an hour somewhere and I have nothing and I have

3706
04:35:52,720 --> 04:35:55,520
nothing to do, and it's me jumping in and saying, hey,

3707
04:35:55,560 --> 04:35:59,000
let's read this, let's get this done. I don't plan

3708
04:35:59,200 --> 04:36:01,639
these at all. This is actually the first, one of

3709
04:36:01,680 --> 04:36:04,680
these six books that I've read in a row that

3710
04:36:04,799 --> 04:36:08,639
I planned, and I wanted to have someone on because well,

3711
04:36:08,759 --> 04:36:12,119
first of all, like I said, your your your knowledge

3712
04:36:12,200 --> 04:36:17,119
of the is as far beyond mine. And it's just

3713
04:36:18,279 --> 04:36:20,080
I think it would help a lot of people. I

3714
04:36:20,119 --> 04:36:23,479
think it's it's that important that people other people could

3715
04:36:23,520 --> 04:36:27,840
come on and comment. But right up front, Carl knows

3716
04:36:28,000 --> 04:36:30,119
more about this than I do. Right now, I'm going

3717
04:36:30,200 --> 04:36:33,040
to ask him to give some background on Largo Caballero.

3718
04:36:33,639 --> 04:36:36,119
Don't get spoiled. This isn't going to happen all the time,

3719
04:36:36,560 --> 04:36:41,040
all right, people, So Carl, the first two letters of

3720
04:36:41,080 --> 04:36:45,080
this of this chapter, the first two words of this chapter,

3721
04:36:45,520 --> 04:36:48,680
or the name Largo Caballero. What do you know about

3722
04:36:48,720 --> 04:36:49,520
Largo cabaatto.

3723
04:36:50,000 --> 04:36:53,200
Speaker 2: So his name, it's funny, his name translates his long night,

3724
04:36:54,080 --> 04:36:57,080
like Caballero is a is a night, Cabyo is a horse,

3725
04:36:57,360 --> 04:37:00,919
so you know, horseman. And and it's kind of interesting

3726
04:37:01,040 --> 04:37:07,000
because the old culture of Spain was largely rotated around

3727
04:37:07,040 --> 04:37:12,159
the nobility, the kabairos and all all over the Western hemisphere.

3728
04:37:12,439 --> 04:37:16,360
A kabaliro it's a respectful way to refer to a

3729
04:37:16,439 --> 04:37:18,560
friend or something calling him a gentleman or sir or

3730
04:37:18,599 --> 04:37:24,000
something like that. Right, Largo Kaballeiro was a piece of garbage.

3731
04:37:24,840 --> 04:37:34,200
He was a well his party. He was more radical

3732
04:37:34,319 --> 04:37:39,200
than his party position. So so his party and sometimes

3733
04:37:39,279 --> 04:37:41,520
I don't get the all the different kind of like

3734
04:37:41,759 --> 04:37:48,720
sub communist, non Bolshevik, you know, national communist groups. Uh

3735
04:37:49,040 --> 04:37:53,360
nailed perfectly. But he worked very closely with commontern. He

3736
04:37:53,560 --> 04:37:56,759
was essentially a stocking horse for the Communist Party when

3737
04:37:56,799 --> 04:38:01,720
he was in prison. Trying to remember if it was

3738
04:38:01,919 --> 04:38:06,080
under the it may it may have been in the twenties.

3739
04:38:07,639 --> 04:38:13,000
He was imprisoned for a bit under the UH, the

3740
04:38:13,319 --> 04:38:20,159
the excellent dictatorship of Prima der Rivera, and he read

3741
04:38:21,639 --> 04:38:29,000
Lenin and got extremely radicalized. So he he would say

3742
04:38:29,200 --> 04:38:34,000
completely insane things about like wanting to eradicate the religion

3743
04:38:34,080 --> 04:38:37,959
of Christianity and the church. You know. So one of

3744
04:38:38,720 --> 04:38:42,840
it's as you keep reiterating something that I always reiterate,

3745
04:38:43,040 --> 04:38:47,919
which is that the republic was not you know, lowercase

3746
04:38:48,040 --> 04:38:50,959
are well, we're supposed to be a republic, not a democracy.

3747
04:38:51,479 --> 04:38:53,400
That people say in the United States all the time,

3748
04:38:54,200 --> 04:38:56,840
it was a it was a frame up to get

3749
04:38:56,919 --> 04:39:02,959
rid of the old system, the anarchy to basically throughout

3750
04:39:03,000 --> 04:39:07,919
the quartes and have people's revolution in whichever flavor the

3751
04:39:08,040 --> 04:39:12,119
various parties wanted, the various left parties wanted, I should say,

3752
04:39:12,159 --> 04:39:18,439
you know, anarchists, rabbid socialists, you know, all kinds of communists,

3753
04:39:18,439 --> 04:39:24,159
whether they be national or non. Largo Cabierro essentially handed

3754
04:39:24,360 --> 04:39:29,439
over his government to the most insane people, and he

3755
04:39:29,639 --> 04:39:35,919
was one of the most rabid enjoyers of violence that

3756
04:39:36,040 --> 04:39:39,799
there was. So they'll talk about it here in his

3757
04:39:39,959 --> 04:39:44,680
relationship with Asagnya and and all the various flavors of

3758
04:39:44,759 --> 04:39:49,240
things that that they do. And so yeah, he was

3759
04:39:49,319 --> 04:39:53,119
the first to include like literal communists in his cabinet

3760
04:39:53,159 --> 04:39:58,919
because he was technically again not a Bolshevik Communist Party member,

3761
04:39:59,479 --> 04:40:01,119
but that's really what he was.

3762
04:40:02,680 --> 04:40:07,080
Speaker 1: All right, here we go. Lago Cabao set up his

3763
04:40:07,200 --> 04:40:10,759
new government on September fourth, Asagna gave his full consent,

3764
04:40:11,119 --> 04:40:15,080
even after Lago Cabao had set as a non negotiable

3765
04:40:15,119 --> 04:40:18,439
condition of accepting the position of Prime Minister that he'd

3766
04:40:18,479 --> 04:40:21,959
be permitted to include communists in his cabinet, which no

3767
04:40:22,119 --> 04:40:25,360
country other than the Soviet Union and Communist ruled Mongolia

3768
04:40:25,599 --> 04:40:29,759
had ever done. One of the communist ministries was most

3769
04:40:29,799 --> 04:40:34,119
significantly education. The minister was hayeslu Hernandez. The other was

3770
04:40:34,159 --> 04:40:39,360
agriculture under vincente Udibe. But there was also a third

3771
04:40:39,439 --> 04:40:42,919
Communist in Logo Cabedo's government, in the highly important position

3772
04:40:43,040 --> 04:40:49,240
of Foreign Secretary, j al Julio alved excuse me, sargez

3773
04:40:50,479 --> 04:40:54,360
Julio Alvarez Delvallo, a close and obedient collaborator with the

3774
04:40:54,439 --> 04:40:57,759
common tern, though not a listed member of the Communist party.

3775
04:41:00,400 --> 04:41:02,720
Speaker 2: All right, So I want to point something about about

3776
04:41:02,880 --> 04:41:08,040
all these different ministries that were handed directly to the Communists.

3777
04:41:08,200 --> 04:41:11,599
So there are elements when you read the more detailed

3778
04:41:11,720 --> 04:41:14,319
histories where the anarchists are involved in, you know, some

3779
04:41:14,439 --> 04:41:18,279
of the other parties, a lot of times while they're

3780
04:41:18,360 --> 04:41:23,479
they're anti anti Christian and stuff, they're they're a little

3781
04:41:23,560 --> 04:41:27,840
less psychotic. But when you look at the ones that

3782
04:41:27,919 --> 04:41:30,799
the Communists were in charge of, this education, and as

3783
04:41:30,919 --> 04:41:37,639
you pointed out, Pete before this education was basically delivered

3784
04:41:37,799 --> 04:41:42,040
to anybody who wanted it via the church. So if

3785
04:41:42,479 --> 04:41:45,840
kids in remote villages were getting any education, it's because

3786
04:41:45,919 --> 04:41:48,439
the church was providing it to them. If people were

3787
04:41:48,560 --> 04:41:54,240
getting any kind of charity. It was generally through the church.

3788
04:41:54,400 --> 04:41:57,200
There were almost no one else was doing anything of

3789
04:41:57,279 --> 04:42:02,400
that nature. So education handed to the communists. Agriculture, what

3790
04:42:02,520 --> 04:42:06,080
do we know about the Soviet Union collectivization of agriculture,

3791
04:42:06,560 --> 04:42:11,599
the you know, the Kulaks were eliminated. You know, you

3792
04:42:11,799 --> 04:42:16,279
have the Holadamoor in Ukraine. Again, that was all under

3793
04:42:16,360 --> 04:42:21,040
the auspices of agricultural departments. And then finally the Foreign secretary.

3794
04:42:21,400 --> 04:42:25,959
The Foreign Secretary Alvares del Vao is the one who

3795
04:42:26,520 --> 04:42:36,240
handed control of the military essentially to the common tern

3796
04:42:36,680 --> 04:42:39,759
aka the Soviet Union. I'll hand it back to you.

3797
04:42:41,759 --> 04:42:45,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I want to make a point because you know,

3798
04:42:45,439 --> 04:42:50,560
a lot of conservatives and Republicans and libertarians, well talk

3799
04:42:50,599 --> 04:42:54,439
about the failure of communism, how they can't feed their people.

3800
04:42:56,400 --> 04:42:59,720
They don't talk about how that's done on purpose. Yeah, exactly,

3801
04:43:00,400 --> 04:43:03,639
how certain groups are targeted to not get food. All

3802
04:43:03,680 --> 04:43:09,360
these crazy liberals. Yeah, what are they thinking, They're so stupid. No,

3803
04:43:11,360 --> 04:43:13,680
don't you know that if you control prices, you're gonna

3804
04:43:13,680 --> 04:43:14,439
have shortages.

3805
04:43:15,400 --> 04:43:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the idea.

3806
04:43:19,599 --> 04:43:24,040
Speaker 1: Salvador de Mariaga calls his appointment a clear sign of

3807
04:43:24,119 --> 04:43:28,639
the rising power of Moscow in Spanish affairs. Communist Party

3808
04:43:28,680 --> 04:43:33,720
members Hernandez and Ribe accepted their two ministries from Logo

3809
04:43:33,799 --> 04:43:38,000
Caabaetto only after being specifically instructed from Moscow to do so.

3810
04:43:38,759 --> 04:43:42,119
From the time of its establishment, the Logo Caabaedo government

3811
04:43:42,520 --> 04:43:48,919
was committed to quote exaction of revolutionary justice and recognition

3812
04:43:49,080 --> 04:43:54,000
of quote people's courts, in other words, to a continuation

3813
04:43:54,279 --> 04:43:57,360
of the massacres and martyrdoms that had reddened the six

3814
04:43:57,439 --> 04:44:03,119
weeks in Republican Spain since the military uprising. Other important

3815
04:44:03,159 --> 04:44:07,520
cabinet appointments were Prieto as Minister of Navy and Air

3816
04:44:08,240 --> 04:44:12,240
Navy and Air, and Juan Negrin as Minister of Finance.

3817
04:44:13,759 --> 04:44:16,520
Largo Caabierto had tried to persuade the anarchists to join

3818
04:44:16,599 --> 04:44:19,680
his government, also not so absurd in ideas at first

3819
04:44:19,759 --> 04:44:24,400
had as at first as at first it appeared for

3820
04:44:24,479 --> 04:44:28,400
a substantial section of the anarchists, led by Juan Garcia Oliver,

3821
04:44:29,200 --> 04:44:33,639
now advocated such participation. However, contrary to their theoretical position

3822
04:44:34,880 --> 04:44:37,880
at this time, the majority of Spain Spanish anarchists and

3823
04:44:37,959 --> 04:44:41,119
their leaders were not quite ready to do it. But

3824
04:44:41,240 --> 04:44:45,959
on September twenty sixth anarchists led by Garcia Oliver accepted

3825
04:44:46,040 --> 04:44:51,439
the ministries of war, Economics, supply and public health in

3826
04:44:51,560 --> 04:44:54,400
a new local government in Catalonia set up by the

3827
04:44:54,479 --> 04:45:01,520
supple Luis Compinas. You had to pronounce his name properly, companies, Okay.

3828
04:45:01,319 --> 04:45:03,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and sometimes you can put a little spin on

3829
04:45:03,919 --> 04:45:07,240
it because it's a it's a Catalan name, that's what.

3830
04:45:07,400 --> 04:45:10,040
That's one of the things that you'll find is the

3831
04:45:10,159 --> 04:45:13,520
really wacky names are are Cattilean or Basque, generally the

3832
04:45:13,599 --> 04:45:15,639
ones that are hard to pronounce, harder to pronounce.

3833
04:45:16,639 --> 04:45:21,720
Speaker 1: Okay, that's where basque is where you know, when you

3834
04:45:21,840 --> 04:45:24,200
do the DNA test and shows up and they give

3835
04:45:24,279 --> 04:45:27,759
you the first like the first section of the country

3836
04:45:27,840 --> 04:45:31,000
that you're yeah, like that you most yet minus Basque.

3837
04:45:31,520 --> 04:45:35,880
Speaker 2: I'm not I'm not terribly surprised by that. But I've

3838
04:45:36,080 --> 04:45:40,720
I've had too many conversations about racial purity with with

3839
04:45:41,200 --> 04:45:49,040
Latin American huiros. One one super quick thing, Pete that

3840
04:45:49,159 --> 04:45:51,279
I want to point out, and I'll try not to

3841
04:45:51,319 --> 04:45:53,959
doo much because otherwise it'll take us an eternity to

3842
04:45:54,000 --> 04:45:54,599
get through that. No.

3843
04:45:54,759 --> 04:45:57,279
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing about this remember

3844
04:45:57,319 --> 04:46:00,720
what you're gonna say. This can do a lot. This

3845
04:46:00,959 --> 04:46:04,000
one episode can do a lot. We can cover a

3846
04:46:04,080 --> 04:46:05,759
lot of the background of a lot of people, and

3847
04:46:05,840 --> 04:46:07,639
then I can just go on with the reading from here.

3848
04:46:07,759 --> 04:46:13,000
Speaker 2: Awesome. So there's there's really subtle things in here that

3849
04:46:13,119 --> 04:46:14,880
it takes a lot of reading, a lot of it

3850
04:46:15,159 --> 04:46:18,680
not in English, to get like good details on You

3851
04:46:18,759 --> 04:46:22,799
can have a general you can catch it from general

3852
04:46:23,720 --> 04:46:28,840
histories like Bevar. You know, I'll add one more thing.

3853
04:46:28,919 --> 04:46:33,400
If you're reading general histories about the war, ignore Preston.

3854
04:46:33,880 --> 04:46:36,599
He sucks. He's he's a comedy, he's a he's a

3855
04:46:36,680 --> 04:46:39,520
piece of garbage. And everything that he does is he

3856
04:46:39,639 --> 04:46:44,479
makes excuses. He makes excuse after excuse. Here you've just

3857
04:46:44,639 --> 04:46:48,959
read in just a couple of paragraphs the all these

3858
04:46:49,159 --> 04:46:53,680
ministers of the government where they essentially sanctified, you know,

3859
04:46:53,759 --> 04:46:57,799
in a communist sanctification, you know, blasphemous definition of course,

3860
04:46:59,279 --> 04:47:04,639
the check so all of the crazy revolutionary people's courts

3861
04:47:04,680 --> 04:47:09,439
where they're running around Madrid and blasting people that's official policy,

3862
04:47:09,840 --> 04:47:13,200
where they're just executing people in these prisons. I want

3863
04:47:13,240 --> 04:47:15,599
to say it was what was it six thousand in

3864
04:47:15,680 --> 04:47:18,479
the first couple months in Madrid that they just had

3865
04:47:18,560 --> 04:47:25,159
Stummary executions of like minimum that that was official government

3866
04:47:25,279 --> 04:47:30,919
policy of the republic. So when these apologists make excuses

3867
04:47:31,040 --> 04:47:34,759
for these people that, I mean, that's that's what the

3868
04:47:34,919 --> 04:47:36,639
thing is. The last time we talked, we talked about

3869
04:47:36,639 --> 04:47:40,279
Preeto a little bit because he was a I mistakenly

3870
04:47:40,360 --> 04:47:46,040
called him a Basque socialist politician. He was actually his

3871
04:47:46,159 --> 04:47:48,959
family was from a storious and they had settled in

3872
04:47:49,080 --> 04:47:52,400
Basque Country to work in industry there, and so that

3873
04:47:52,599 --> 04:47:54,319
was when I was talking about how most of the

3874
04:47:54,439 --> 04:47:59,119
time the socialists and leftists that were in Basque Country

3875
04:47:59,240 --> 04:48:02,560
had my graded to the cities to be the working

3876
04:48:02,720 --> 04:48:08,200
poor from other parts of Spain, whereas the locals generally

3877
04:48:08,360 --> 04:48:11,919
tended to remain traditionalist Catholics, even if they were like

3878
04:48:12,080 --> 04:48:18,200
pro separatist Basques versus the the nationalist aligned Carlists and

3879
04:48:18,319 --> 04:48:22,799
a lot of the former were incorporated into the Carlist

3880
04:48:22,959 --> 04:48:26,479
units very smoothly. So they had a huge, a huge

3881
04:48:26,479 --> 04:48:30,439
amount of recruiting out of the Basque traditionalists who had

3882
04:48:30,560 --> 04:48:38,200
started out as Republican Republicans under arms so navy and air.

3883
04:48:39,560 --> 04:48:42,560
So again that's that is just a conduit with the

3884
04:48:42,720 --> 04:48:45,639
Soviets and the French to a lesser degree. They always

3885
04:48:45,720 --> 04:48:51,479
downplay the French supplies by their socialist government. One Negreen,

3886
04:48:51,880 --> 04:48:58,759
as Minister of Finance, he shipped all of Spain's gold

3887
04:48:58,840 --> 04:49:03,959
and silver reserves to France and the Soviet Union. Three

3888
04:49:04,040 --> 04:49:06,319
quarters of it I think went to the Soviet Union,

3889
04:49:08,279 --> 04:49:13,040
a quarter went to France, and so very important. So

3890
04:49:13,639 --> 04:49:17,880
they drained the coffers in exchange for a military aid.

3891
04:49:18,799 --> 04:49:21,319
And it was actually one of the worst deals in

3892
04:49:21,439 --> 04:49:28,159
human history because they went from the country they were

3893
04:49:28,200 --> 04:49:31,360
among the top countries in terms of gold reserves held

3894
04:49:31,439 --> 04:49:36,000
by the national banks, to having nothing. So they went

3895
04:49:36,119 --> 04:49:40,720
full fiat currency with no monetary no no, you know,

3896
04:49:40,840 --> 04:49:45,159
hard currency backing it. It's it's only literally whatever the

3897
04:49:45,279 --> 04:49:50,240
republic said that they have and so like immediately became

3898
04:49:50,520 --> 04:49:54,959
valueless currency. Outside of Republican controlled areas where they were

3899
04:49:55,000 --> 04:49:59,119
issuing script and stuff like that, people were still using

3900
04:49:59,200 --> 04:50:01,880
the old current because they had precious metals in them,

3901
04:50:01,919 --> 04:50:04,639
so they were inherently valuable and you could take them

3902
04:50:05,159 --> 04:50:08,000
to foreign countries if you were a refugee or if

3903
04:50:08,000 --> 04:50:12,319
you wanted to buy hard goods, weapons, whatever. That's that

3904
04:50:12,560 --> 04:50:16,200
relationship that happens there. So you've gone through people who

3905
04:50:16,319 --> 04:50:21,240
completely betrayed the country of Spain and handed it over

3906
04:50:21,639 --> 04:50:27,000
to outside forces. Basically immediately, I'll stop.

3907
04:50:28,159 --> 04:50:32,080
Speaker 1: Well and yeah, I'm we're in that situation.

3908
04:50:32,319 --> 04:50:34,319
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, oh of course, yeah.

3909
04:50:34,840 --> 04:50:38,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. A friend had contact to me today and asked

3910
04:50:38,720 --> 04:50:43,520
me about do you have an opinion a quick opinion

3911
04:50:43,599 --> 04:50:48,479
on Jose Maria Gironella, the Cypruses, believe in God, Spain

3912
04:50:48,599 --> 04:50:50,360
and the eve of the Civil War. Are you familiar?

3913
04:50:51,040 --> 04:50:54,720
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I haven't read it. I haven't read it

3914
04:50:54,840 --> 04:50:58,880
because what I do is whenever i'm writing, I don't

3915
04:50:58,919 --> 04:51:03,919
read fiction of any kind. So I haven't read literally

3916
04:51:04,119 --> 04:51:07,119
any fiction about the Spanish Civil War because I don't

3917
04:51:07,119 --> 04:51:09,360
want it in my brain when I'm writing.

3918
04:51:10,040 --> 04:51:12,000
Speaker 1: Because you're writing fiction about spanishil war.

3919
04:51:12,360 --> 04:51:14,400
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, yeah, yeah, yep.

3920
04:51:14,360 --> 04:51:18,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it all right. Onward. Arco Caabaoto called

3921
04:51:18,520 --> 04:51:21,639
his new regime a government of victory and named himself

3922
04:51:21,720 --> 04:51:24,959
a Minister of War as well as Prime Minister. He

3923
04:51:25,080 --> 04:51:29,799
immediately replaced the exhausted and ineffective General rikel Me. I

3924
04:51:29,919 --> 04:51:33,560
believe that's how that's pronounced. Is close enough? Yeah? In command? Yeah,

3925
04:51:34,200 --> 04:51:35,919
I'm the one here with the Spanish last name, and

3926
04:51:35,919 --> 04:51:36,439
I'm asking it.

3927
04:51:37,840 --> 04:51:40,279
Speaker 2: I took it for four years and Latin, so I

3928
04:51:40,360 --> 04:51:41,759
should be better than I am.

3929
04:51:42,639 --> 04:51:49,799
Speaker 1: So did I? I took Latin too, all right. He

3930
04:51:49,880 --> 04:51:53,319
immediately replaced the exhausted and an effective General rikel May

3931
04:51:53,360 --> 04:51:56,639
in command of the Central Front the approaches to Madrid,

3932
04:51:56,959 --> 04:52:01,520
with Jose Asensio just promoted by Largo Caabaoto to general.

3933
04:52:01,799 --> 04:52:04,759
The young forty four brilliant Assensio was one of the

3934
04:52:04,840 --> 04:52:08,200
few regular army officers who had served in Morocco to

3935
04:52:08,279 --> 04:52:12,959
stay with the Republic. Largo Caabaoto sent him to meet

3936
04:52:13,040 --> 04:52:17,599
Yague and his Nationalists striking column in the Tagus Valley

3937
04:52:17,959 --> 04:52:22,720
near Talavera de la Rena, which the Nationalists had just taken.

3938
04:52:23,319 --> 04:52:27,040
Assensio's force was supported by the first foreign volunteers to

3939
04:52:27,119 --> 04:52:30,279
go into the battle for the Republic Italians in French.

3940
04:52:31,200 --> 04:52:34,840
After a hand fought battle, Yague broke Assensio's men and

3941
04:52:34,959 --> 04:52:39,759
the inadequately trained volunteers and they fled the field. But

3942
04:52:39,919 --> 04:52:43,200
Yague's men had suffered significant losses and needed some rest

3943
04:52:43,279 --> 04:52:47,200
to recover from the rigors of their tremendous march. Under

3944
04:52:47,279 --> 04:52:51,479
the summer sun of southern Spain, so the nationalist advance

3945
04:52:51,520 --> 04:52:55,279
halted for the time being. The Yaghue did send a

3946
04:52:55,439 --> 04:52:58,840
detachment north to firm up a link with General Mola's

3947
04:52:58,880 --> 04:53:03,919
men at an an Nst. San Pedro in the Greatos Mountains.

3948
04:53:04,400 --> 04:53:07,159
Over the next two weeks, the main column advanced only

3949
04:53:07,319 --> 04:53:08,360
twenty five miles.

3950
04:53:09,119 --> 04:53:12,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a huge difference compared to their pace before.

3951
04:53:12,599 --> 04:53:14,840
Think how worn out they would be. Think how much

3952
04:53:14,880 --> 04:53:19,000
of a problem water would be, because that those mountains

3953
04:53:19,040 --> 04:53:22,240
in that part of Spain are very arid. In the summer,

3954
04:53:22,479 --> 04:53:25,639
there's just there's very little water. If you've ever seen

3955
04:53:25,720 --> 04:53:29,599
the area around Madrid, it's like nor north of the mountains,

3956
04:53:29,840 --> 04:53:33,040
you know, it can it's greener, you know, it's Espana

3957
04:53:33,159 --> 04:53:36,520
Verde like farther up once you get past the high plains.

3958
04:53:37,720 --> 04:53:41,279
But down in that area it is extremely arid. So

3959
04:53:41,520 --> 04:53:45,759
that's that's not surprising. They they won, but they were

3960
04:53:46,040 --> 04:53:50,319
super worn out, and that's something that kind of shows

3961
04:53:50,439 --> 04:53:55,000
the relevance of the militias who who were able to

3962
04:53:55,119 --> 04:54:00,840
capture and hold territory and and take you know, h casualties.

3963
04:54:01,360 --> 04:54:05,040
You were reading last time about the recutees in the

3964
04:54:05,159 --> 04:54:10,040
advances that they made in capturing territory. But it's it's

3965
04:54:10,119 --> 04:54:15,880
a huge logistical effort to actually make strong advances, especially

3966
04:54:16,560 --> 04:54:19,279
in you know, with this thing called weather. So anyone

3967
04:54:19,319 --> 04:54:22,720
who's been in the mountains knows how much water that

3968
04:54:22,799 --> 04:54:26,479
you drink when you're when you're hiking, and that's that's

3969
04:54:26,599 --> 04:54:30,319
not even like digging in and engaging in combat or anything.

3970
04:54:32,840 --> 04:54:35,240
Speaker 1: On the nationalist side, the crusade was more than ever

3971
04:54:35,319 --> 04:54:38,799
a reality. Just as Communist volunteers from other nations were

3972
04:54:38,840 --> 04:54:42,799
now arriving to fight for the Republic, Catholic Catholic foreign

3973
04:54:42,880 --> 04:54:46,400
volunteers were arriving to fight for the Catholic nationalists. The

3974
04:54:46,520 --> 04:54:48,919
Irish were first in the field on the Catholic side.

3975
04:54:50,119 --> 04:54:53,880
It's funny they said, they sat out so many wars,

3976
04:54:53,959 --> 04:54:57,880
but you know, just yeah, yeah. The leader of the

3977
04:54:57,919 --> 04:55:02,439
first Irish Volunteer Battalion, Francis McCullough, I believe that should

3978
04:55:02,439 --> 04:55:06,599
be pronounced. It looks like mccallough to me wrote during

3979
04:55:06,639 --> 04:55:09,959
September it's a president Amen and de Valera of Ireland,

3980
04:55:10,360 --> 04:55:14,119
quoting I am in Spain. I see Spain all around me.

3981
04:55:14,680 --> 04:55:20,799
Excuse me a second, sorry, I am in Sipain. I

3982
04:55:20,919 --> 04:55:23,439
see Spain all around me. I live and move and

3983
04:55:23,520 --> 04:55:25,560
breathe in the shadow of the greatest horror that has

3984
04:55:25,599 --> 04:55:28,919
befallen Europe. Since Sevisky drove the Turk from the gates

3985
04:55:28,959 --> 04:55:31,720
of Vienna. Not a Spaniard in my company has not

3986
04:55:31,840 --> 04:55:35,479
had a sister outraged, a father murdered under circumstances of

3987
04:55:35,520 --> 04:55:39,040
indescribable barbarity, or a brother butchered because he was a

3988
04:55:39,119 --> 04:55:42,959
priest or a novice in some monastery. A very striking

3989
04:55:43,040 --> 04:55:45,680
feature is a number of religious emblems. The officers and

3990
04:55:45,720 --> 04:55:48,799
soldiers wear. Pins of their breasts are little red cloth

3991
04:55:48,880 --> 04:55:51,759
badges of the Sacred Heart of a kind very common

3992
04:55:51,799 --> 04:55:54,959
in Ireland, and holy medals, while around the necks of

3993
04:55:55,080 --> 04:55:59,880
many of many hang rosary beads scapulars of the Virgin

3994
04:56:00,759 --> 04:56:04,279
Pilar and that cross whereon the Red's delight to trample.

3995
04:56:04,959 --> 04:56:07,639
Never since de Moors were driven from Spain has there

3996
04:56:07,680 --> 04:56:09,959
been such a Catholic army in this country as there

3997
04:56:10,080 --> 04:56:15,200
is today. There is an This is not an army,

3998
04:56:15,720 --> 04:56:18,319
It is the Church militant on the march. It is

3999
04:56:18,439 --> 04:56:21,560
Catholic action personified. This is not a civil war. It

4000
04:56:21,680 --> 04:56:24,599
is a holy war a crusade. These are not soldiers.

4001
04:56:24,680 --> 04:56:28,599
They are fighting monks, knights, templars, and like all good monks,

4002
04:56:28,639 --> 04:56:31,840
they are cheerful. Never was there such a singing army.

4003
04:56:32,119 --> 04:56:34,759
Whenever one wakes up at night, one hears the singing

4004
04:56:34,840 --> 04:56:39,799
soldiers go past. What then, has caused this extraordinary outburst

4005
04:56:39,880 --> 04:56:44,119
of piety? In my opinion, their principle causes the sacrilegious

4006
04:56:44,200 --> 04:56:47,040
fury of the reds and their diabolical hatred of the

4007
04:56:47,080 --> 04:56:50,319
Cross of Christ. That fury and that hatred convinced the

4008
04:56:50,400 --> 04:56:52,840
Catholics of Spain that they had to deal with the

4009
04:56:52,959 --> 04:56:56,240
forces of Hell itself. The Spanish Catholics were not frightened

4010
04:56:56,279 --> 04:57:00,080
by the foul and cruel murders which deprive them of

4011
04:57:00,119 --> 04:57:04,439
their wisest and gentilest counselors. On the contrary, they were strengthened,

4012
04:57:04,639 --> 04:57:07,720
for many of those victims died like veritable saints of God,

4013
04:57:08,159 --> 04:57:10,799
and the Catholic army now sees them standing outside the

4014
04:57:10,880 --> 04:57:15,479
limits of space and time, immortal, invulnerable, far more potent

4015
04:57:15,639 --> 04:57:20,080
than they were on earth, interceding, assisting, encouraging from the

4016
04:57:20,159 --> 04:57:26,080
courts of infinite wisdom and infinite strength. End quote on

4017
04:57:26,200 --> 04:57:29,759
September fourteenth, speaking to a group of several hundred Spanish refugees,

4018
04:57:31,000 --> 04:57:37,560
Pope Pious the eleventh, that Pope Pious the eleventh declared

4019
04:57:37,880 --> 04:57:41,200
that a truly Satanic hatred of God had been displayed

4020
04:57:41,240 --> 04:57:44,159
in the Spanish Republic. What had happened to so many

4021
04:57:44,159 --> 04:57:47,439
of the Spanish clergy was what was? He said, quoting

4022
04:57:48,040 --> 04:57:50,799
martyrdom in the full sacred and glorious meaning in the

4023
04:57:50,840 --> 04:57:55,040
word martyrdoms in which were sacrificed the most innocent lives,

4024
04:57:55,200 --> 04:57:58,200
the lives of old and venerable men, youthful lives still

4025
04:57:58,279 --> 04:58:02,639
in their flower, martyrdoms of which the victims and their

4026
04:58:03,040 --> 04:58:06,040
generous heroism have gone so far as to ask for

4027
04:58:06,119 --> 04:58:08,599
a place in the vehicle along with those whom their

4028
04:58:08,680 --> 04:58:14,599
executioner is taking to their death. But then he went on,

4029
04:58:15,200 --> 04:58:18,080
as it is ever opposed duty to do, to caution,

4030
04:58:18,400 --> 04:58:21,360
to caution the defenders of God in religion in Spain,

4031
04:58:21,919 --> 04:58:24,840
never to forget that their enemies were still their brothers,

4032
04:58:24,919 --> 04:58:27,479
whom they must still try to love, and not to

4033
04:58:27,560 --> 04:58:31,400
give away to vengeful fury. He may already have heard

4034
04:58:31,520 --> 04:58:34,919
of the massacres inflicted on helpless prisoners on the Spanish

4035
04:58:35,000 --> 04:58:39,400
Balaric island of Majorca by the man who curiously emerged

4036
04:58:39,400 --> 04:58:42,000
as its governor after a nationalist force took the island

4037
04:58:42,040 --> 04:58:46,400
from the Republic on September third, an Italian Fascist officer

4038
04:58:46,680 --> 04:58:55,080
officer named Arca Novaldo bona Coursi. That sounds German to me.

4039
04:58:55,599 --> 04:59:01,599
How's that Italian whose bloody reprisals turned the profoundly Catholic

4040
04:59:01,680 --> 04:59:05,680
French writer Bernonos against the Spanish crusade and his sad

4041
04:59:05,759 --> 04:59:08,639
book The Great Cemeteries Under the Moon. He was in

4042
04:59:08,759 --> 04:59:11,759
Majorca at this time and never saw any other part

4043
04:59:11,840 --> 04:59:15,159
of Spain during the Civil war. So the Pope said,

4044
04:59:15,560 --> 04:59:19,040
quoting it is only too easy for the very ardor

4045
04:59:19,360 --> 04:59:23,599
and difficulty of defense to go to excess intentions. Less

4046
04:59:23,680 --> 04:59:28,159
pure selfish interests and mere party feeling may easily enter

4047
04:59:28,319 --> 04:59:32,000
into cloud and change the morality and responsibility for what

4048
04:59:32,119 --> 04:59:35,560
is being done. What is to be said of all

4049
04:59:36,080 --> 04:59:40,000
these others who are, who are so near and never

4050
04:59:40,159 --> 04:59:42,520
cease to be our sons. In spite of the deeds

4051
04:59:42,560 --> 04:59:46,759
and methods of persecution so odious and cruel against persons

4052
04:59:46,799 --> 04:59:49,720
and things to us so dear and sacred, we must

4053
04:59:49,799 --> 04:59:52,680
love them with a special love born of mercy and

4054
04:59:52,840 --> 04:59:57,840
of compassion, and the non compassion Catholics, non Christians will

4055
04:59:58,360 --> 05:00:00,439
fixate on stuff like this, say.

4056
05:00:00,400 --> 05:00:02,799
Speaker 2: Well, you're just creating the conditions for the future. It

4057
05:00:02,840 --> 05:00:09,599
doesn't matter. You cannot there, there's there's no scenario. Well,

4058
05:00:09,840 --> 05:00:15,040
let me rephrase. The path that the Spanish took is

4059
05:00:15,200 --> 05:00:20,959
very understandable given their religion. Unfortunately, you know, but but

4060
05:00:21,080 --> 05:00:23,880
I'll add, but I'll add the unfortunate outcomes that we

4061
05:00:23,959 --> 05:00:28,720
see in the present. Doesn't you know that religious sentiment

4062
05:00:28,840 --> 05:00:34,560
doesn't preclude working harder than they did to establish the

4063
05:00:35,599 --> 05:00:40,439
conditions to maintain what they created. It was a it

4064
05:00:40,560 --> 05:00:44,159
was a failure of imagination and looking to the future

4065
05:00:44,240 --> 05:00:47,639
and still giving people quote unquote choices when they could

4066
05:00:47,680 --> 05:00:52,560
have directed them better. Uh, to make better choices. Just

4067
05:00:53,360 --> 05:00:55,799
just an observation at.

4068
05:00:55,720 --> 05:00:58,439
Speaker 1: The end of the month and a pastoral letter entitled

4069
05:00:58,560 --> 05:01:02,759
the Two Cities, Bishop play Danielle of Salamanca, in the

4070
05:01:02,919 --> 05:01:08,319
heart of the nationalist zone, glorified the recent martyrdoms of bishops, priests, monks,

4071
05:01:08,439 --> 05:01:12,599
virgins and children and declared that Christian civilization and its

4072
05:01:12,639 --> 05:01:18,040
bases religion, fatherhood, fatherland, and family must be defended against

4073
05:01:18,119 --> 05:01:21,639
those without God and against God, and specifically called the

4074
05:01:21,680 --> 05:01:27,680
war a crusade, as Bishop Olechia of Pamplona had done

4075
05:01:27,799 --> 05:01:32,880
the first the previous month. The Carlos above all had

4076
05:01:32,959 --> 05:01:35,200
seen the war from the beginning as a crusade and

4077
05:01:35,360 --> 05:01:39,680
essentially nothing else. Their commitment to it remained so complete

4078
05:01:40,000 --> 05:01:42,200
as to be a marvel to all who observed them,

4079
05:01:43,040 --> 05:01:48,159
not for them the disquiet and even exasperation with which

4080
05:01:48,240 --> 05:01:54,000
some Spanish nationalists greeted Pious the Eleventh's caution against excess

4081
05:01:54,159 --> 05:01:57,520
and hatred of the enemy in his September fourteenth allocution

4082
05:01:58,200 --> 05:02:02,639
to the Spanish refugees. On September tenth, the Carlist nationalist

4083
05:02:02,680 --> 05:02:06,799
War Huntsa issued a statement firmly asserting carlos opposition to

4084
05:02:06,880 --> 05:02:11,520
every form of totalitarianism, including fascism. The new state to

4085
05:02:11,599 --> 05:02:14,080
be established in Spain, they said, should be limited to

4086
05:02:14,279 --> 05:02:17,360
essential functions that would not interfere with the just and

4087
05:02:17,479 --> 05:02:19,240
necessary freedom of the people.

4088
05:02:20,319 --> 05:02:23,400
Speaker 2: And where people get confused about that is that they're

4089
05:02:23,479 --> 05:02:32,599
still talking about essentially a thousand year old system with

4090
05:02:32,759 --> 05:02:35,720
which they were happy, which would be called fascism today,

4091
05:02:35,880 --> 05:02:42,840
which was essentially, you know, the white male patriarchs are

4092
05:02:42,880 --> 05:02:45,159
the only people who have a say you have an

4093
05:02:45,200 --> 05:02:51,400
appeal through your social groups to justice based on their

4094
05:02:51,479 --> 05:02:57,400
old fueros. It's much like you'll find in the Magna

4095
05:02:57,520 --> 05:03:05,520
Carta in terms of just class oriented class oriented rights

4096
05:03:05,560 --> 05:03:09,279
and privileges, duties and privileges. Actually is more like it,

4097
05:03:10,520 --> 05:03:13,959
and so you know you have it. You have arbiters

4098
05:03:14,959 --> 05:03:19,959
of justice through through courts as well as the church

4099
05:03:21,279 --> 05:03:25,000
managing everything. So again that would be fascism. They were

4100
05:03:25,080 --> 05:03:32,599
specifically talking about a secular a secular system, as well

4101
05:03:32,639 --> 05:03:37,040
as any kind of system that was Unspanish and Uncatholic.

4102
05:03:40,080 --> 05:03:42,400
Speaker 1: In the course of the month of September, the Carlos

4103
05:03:42,639 --> 05:03:46,680
Katis secured the Basque border town of Run on the fourth,

4104
05:03:47,279 --> 05:03:52,919
where heroic General Leggy felt mortally wounded in a last

4105
05:03:52,959 --> 05:03:57,720
engagement with French communist machine gunners on International Bridge. On

4106
05:03:57,840 --> 05:04:01,520
the thirteenth, they took nearby San Sebasta, where they learned

4107
05:04:01,520 --> 05:04:05,599
that their leading writer and theoretician, Victor Prideeria, had just

4108
05:04:05,720 --> 05:04:09,680
been murdered by the revolutionary by his revolutionary captors. On

4109
05:04:09,799 --> 05:04:13,319
the sixteenth, and other Riquette force commanded by Luis Rodondo

4110
05:04:13,720 --> 05:04:17,159
took Ronda at the opposite end of Spain in Ando Lucia,

4111
05:04:18,959 --> 05:04:23,119
bringing his victorious Tercio to Sevilla. A few days later,

4112
05:04:23,279 --> 05:04:26,240
Redondo dedicated it to the Blessed Virgin Mary in a

4113
05:04:26,279 --> 05:04:30,919
striking ceremony in the Plaza before the residents of Cardinal Segurda,

4114
05:04:31,240 --> 05:04:33,400
who blessed the men and urged them to carry on

4115
05:04:33,520 --> 05:04:39,520
the crusade. Afterwards, to Cercio entered the Great Cathedral of

4116
05:04:40,159 --> 05:04:43,880
Sevilla to venerate the image of the Blessed Virgin carried

4117
05:04:44,000 --> 05:04:47,639
on the saddle of the canonized crusader King of Castile,

4118
05:04:47,799 --> 05:04:51,599
San Fernando the Third, when he completed the reconquest of

4119
05:04:51,680 --> 05:04:55,080
Sevilla from the Moors in the year twelve forty eight

4120
05:04:56,959 --> 05:05:00,639
at the Alcazard of Tola. Though the relentless bombardment by

4121
05:05:00,680 --> 05:05:03,880
the besiegers one hundred and fifty five millimeters six inch

4122
05:05:04,000 --> 05:05:08,040
guns began to show substantial effort effect by the early

4123
05:05:08,119 --> 05:05:11,520
days of September, with the north wall collapsing into rubble

4124
05:05:11,599 --> 05:05:15,479
the cannon where the cannon were turned in force upon

4125
05:05:15,560 --> 05:05:18,840
the northwest tower on the second. Two days later, it

4126
05:05:18,919 --> 05:05:22,919
came crashing down, with its crowning spire pointing east from

4127
05:05:22,919 --> 05:05:26,000
an enormous heap of stones toward the gorge of the

4128
05:05:26,080 --> 05:05:31,400
Tegas like a giant's spear. Now the cannon. Now the

4129
05:05:31,520 --> 05:05:36,200
cannon were turned on the northwest tower, while attackers from

4130
05:05:36,240 --> 05:05:39,319
the Santa Cruz Museum set fire to the already badly

4131
05:05:39,439 --> 05:05:44,119
damaged Gobierno building, which finally burned down that day. The

4132
05:05:44,240 --> 05:05:48,159
revolutionary militia occupied it, but in small numbers it was

4133
05:05:48,279 --> 05:05:52,240
hardly a safe place to lodge in. Late the following afternoon,

4134
05:05:52,319 --> 05:05:55,439
the fifth, a brilliant counter attack from the Alcazar, led

4135
05:05:55,479 --> 05:05:59,200
by Captain Vela, regained the ruined building, now little more

4136
05:05:59,279 --> 05:06:05,439
than large pile of ash covered debris. On Sunday, the sixth,

4137
05:06:05,479 --> 05:06:10,520
another Nationalist airplane appeared overhead, dropping aluminum containers. Two fell

4138
05:06:10,560 --> 05:06:12,479
into the city and were picked up by the militia,

4139
05:06:12,560 --> 05:06:15,360
but the third reached to Alcazar. It contained a letter

4140
05:06:15,439 --> 05:06:18,880
from General Mola stating that the Nationalists were advancing in

4141
05:06:19,000 --> 05:06:22,360
both the north and south and the Yagus column had

4142
05:06:22,520 --> 05:06:27,400
just taken Talveda de la Rena. But disheartening news soon

4143
05:06:27,639 --> 05:06:30,720
met a grim counterpart. After an hour of listening at

4144
05:06:30,759 --> 05:06:34,360
the floor of the Alcazar's lower cellar with his stethoscope,

4145
05:06:34,439 --> 05:06:39,680
Engineer Lieutenant Barber reported to Muscadero that the enemy was

4146
05:06:39,720 --> 05:06:43,319
digging not one tunnel into the fortress, but two. The

4147
05:06:43,400 --> 05:06:46,680
excavation was making rapid progress, and both tunnels must be

4148
05:06:46,759 --> 05:06:50,240
expected to reach points directly under the Alcazar in about

4149
05:06:50,279 --> 05:06:55,040
eight days. Largo Cabaoto had not lost confidence in his

4150
05:06:55,119 --> 05:07:01,200
newly appointed general Asensio, despite his defeat near Teal. He

4151
05:07:01,319 --> 05:07:03,599
sent him to Toley, though, to take command of the

4152
05:07:03,639 --> 05:07:06,680
siege of Alcazar, with the instruction once and for all

4153
05:07:06,759 --> 05:07:11,040
that Tolay the nightmare must be ended. Asensio's first task

4154
05:07:11,200 --> 05:07:14,319
was to establish better discipline. So far, the siege had

4155
05:07:14,400 --> 05:07:18,880
mostly been conducted by militia, ardent and brutal, but largely untrained.

4156
05:07:19,759 --> 05:07:23,880
The only Republican general involved had been Riguelne for a

4157
05:07:23,959 --> 05:07:26,040
few days at the outset of the siege in July

4158
05:07:26,400 --> 05:07:30,680
before he went up to the Guadama passes, and then

4159
05:07:30,759 --> 05:07:33,119
again for a few days at the beginning of August

4160
05:07:33,959 --> 05:07:37,799
before he went south to fight Yaghue. Ascensio was a

4161
05:07:37,919 --> 05:07:42,400
man of determination and ability, though widely suspected of lack

4162
05:07:42,479 --> 05:07:45,599
of sympathy for the kind of men he mostly had

4163
05:07:45,639 --> 05:07:49,400
to command this war, an attitude he later firmly disavowed,

4164
05:07:49,680 --> 05:07:52,040
though one would wish, for the sake of a brave

4165
05:07:52,119 --> 05:07:55,959
man's reputation that it were true. In any case, Asensio

4166
05:07:56,479 --> 05:07:59,959
was a formidable opponent, resolved to gain victory at last

4167
05:08:00,040 --> 05:08:02,720
asked for the Republic in the last fight at the Alcazar.

4168
05:08:03,680 --> 05:08:06,759
The day after his arrival, the northwest tower fell under

4169
05:08:06,799 --> 05:08:10,279
the incessant cannon fire, leaving only two of the lofty

4170
05:08:10,319 --> 05:08:13,919
structures at each corner of the square fortress still standing.

4171
05:08:14,959 --> 05:08:17,080
Horns brayed in triumph in the city, and the immense

4172
05:08:17,119 --> 05:08:20,279
cloud of dust arising from the ruin covered the sun

4173
05:08:20,720 --> 05:08:26,360
and coated every exposed surface in the fortress. At ten

4174
05:08:26,400 --> 05:08:30,000
point thirty in the evening of the eighth Major Vincente Rojo,

4175
05:08:30,439 --> 05:08:33,240
an officer serving the government of the Republic, who had

4176
05:08:33,279 --> 05:08:36,520
taught military history at the Alcazar Academy and so was

4177
05:08:36,599 --> 05:08:41,919
personally known to Mosca Moscardo, hailed the Alcazar on a

4178
05:08:42,000 --> 05:08:47,400
megaphone from the Plaza de Cappuccinos. It's so funny that

4179
05:08:47,479 --> 05:08:52,080
that's the way that's pronounced. Actually, Blaza de Cappuccinos, on

4180
05:08:52,200 --> 05:08:54,439
the opposite side of the fortress, from the ruins of

4181
05:08:54,479 --> 05:08:57,639
the Gobierno and the two wrecked towers. He asked for

4182
05:08:57,680 --> 05:09:00,240
an hour ceasefire at nine o'clock the following more so

4183
05:09:00,360 --> 05:09:03,040
that he might meet with Muscargo. After five minutes of

4184
05:09:03,119 --> 05:09:07,720
consideration and consultation, Mascargo agreed. And do you guarantee my

4185
05:09:07,799 --> 05:09:13,520
personal safety? Rojo asked. Moscardo's inner fire blazed up. Did

4186
05:09:13,560 --> 05:09:16,840
this man question his word of honor? We are gentlemen here,

4187
05:09:16,880 --> 05:09:20,479
he answered heatedly, not like your Republican trash. You may

4188
05:09:20,560 --> 05:09:26,279
have an hour. Largo Caabaoto had ordered Major Rojo to

4189
05:09:26,439 --> 05:09:29,959
undertake these first negotiations with the defenders since the siege began,

4190
05:09:30,479 --> 05:09:33,360
because the worldwide press attention now being given to the

4191
05:09:33,439 --> 05:09:36,439
siege and the growing admiration for the magnificent courage of

4192
05:09:36,479 --> 05:09:40,000
the defenders, even among many supporters of the Republic, made

4193
05:09:40,040 --> 05:09:43,319
it desirable at least to try to get the women

4194
05:09:43,360 --> 05:09:46,599
and children out before the mines were exploded in the tunnels,

4195
05:09:46,720 --> 05:09:50,880
and as nearly everyone believed they would totally destroy the Alkhazar.

4196
05:09:51,759 --> 05:09:55,319
In the morning of the ninth Major Rojo presented terms

4197
05:09:55,360 --> 05:09:58,479
in writing signed by the Defense Committee of Taledo, but

4198
05:09:59,000 --> 05:10:03,520
obviously author authorized by the Communist premier freedom for the

4199
05:10:03,560 --> 05:10:06,439
women and children, trial by the People's Court, for all

4200
05:10:06,439 --> 05:10:09,560
the fighting men and the garrison. The wives and children

4201
05:10:09,599 --> 05:10:12,040
at the Alcazar were literally to purchase their lives with

4202
05:10:12,119 --> 05:10:14,599
the lives of their husbands and fathers. For at this

4203
05:10:14,680 --> 05:10:17,360
point no reasonable man could doubt for a moment what

4204
05:10:17,479 --> 05:10:19,959
the verdict of the People's Court on its defenders would be.

4205
05:10:21,200 --> 05:10:24,759
The dark eyes burned in Muscado's haggard face as you

4206
05:10:24,880 --> 05:10:29,000
receive this proposal quote. We are willing to let the

4207
05:10:29,040 --> 05:10:32,000
al Kazar become a cemetery, he said between his teeth,

4208
05:10:32,319 --> 05:10:34,959
but not a dung keep. Then he wrote out his

4209
05:10:35,040 --> 05:10:39,119
official answer on a scrap of paper, quoting concerning the

4210
05:10:39,159 --> 05:10:42,599
conditions for the surrender of the Alcazar presented by the committee.

4211
05:10:42,880 --> 05:10:45,479
It gives me great pleasure to inform you that from

4212
05:10:45,520 --> 05:10:48,759
the last soldiers, as a commander, they reject such said

4213
05:10:48,840 --> 05:10:51,840
conditions and will continue to defend the Alcazar and the

4214
05:10:51,919 --> 05:10:53,560
dignity of Spain to the end.

4215
05:10:54,279 --> 05:11:04,159
Speaker 2: How great is it that the basically the medieval style

4216
05:11:05,040 --> 05:11:09,240
honor culture they would they would have never behaved this

4217
05:11:09,400 --> 05:11:12,319
way in the old days, you know, in terms of

4218
05:11:12,840 --> 05:11:17,759
what the way they threatened to treat you know, an

4219
05:11:18,119 --> 05:11:23,279
honorably defeated enemy, you know, even a foreigner that's hated.

4220
05:11:23,599 --> 05:11:27,240
Like there there was always room for you know, a

4221
05:11:27,400 --> 05:11:34,119
gentlemanly uh, you know, surrender and letting people go. But

4222
05:11:35,159 --> 05:11:41,080
in a quote unquote democracy, you know, it's slaughter to

4223
05:11:41,240 --> 05:11:47,400
the last man. And here are these traditionalists saying, you know,

4224
05:11:47,520 --> 05:11:53,560
with great diction and poetic language, that they're that they

4225
05:11:53,599 --> 05:11:57,720
would rather die. I mean, we were, we would prefer

4226
05:11:57,880 --> 05:12:00,400
that it be a cemetery than a dung heap, giving

4227
05:12:00,439 --> 05:12:04,319
you your conditions, Major Rojo, which means red, which was

4228
05:12:04,400 --> 05:12:09,400
their term for the communists. So yeah, great stuff.

4229
05:12:10,240 --> 05:12:15,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Major Roho felt a surge of sympathy and admiration

4230
05:12:15,479 --> 05:12:19,000
for his old comrade in arms, rise up and grip

4231
05:12:19,080 --> 05:12:22,360
his throat. When he entered Muscardo had refused to shake

4232
05:12:22,400 --> 05:12:24,599
his hand. Now he had turned his back on him

4233
05:12:24,639 --> 05:12:26,599
and was walking toward the door of the office of

4234
05:12:26,639 --> 05:12:31,799
the Superintendent Academy where they had met. Suddenly, Roho cried out,

4235
05:12:32,119 --> 05:12:35,000
is there anything I can do for you? Moscardo turned back,

4236
05:12:35,040 --> 05:12:39,959
his expression unchanged, his voice unsoftened, utterly unyielding. He was

4237
05:12:40,040 --> 05:12:42,439
a crusader who had lost his son and watched the

4238
05:12:42,479 --> 05:12:45,040
blood of one hundred martyred priests read in the cobblestones

4239
05:12:45,040 --> 05:12:50,680
at Toil though the city of Saints and the Catholic kings. Yes,

4240
05:12:50,799 --> 05:12:54,360
he said, yes, He said, like steel on iron, you

4241
05:12:54,439 --> 05:12:56,959
can send us a priest. We want nothing else from you.

4242
05:12:57,520 --> 05:12:59,080
And he walked out of the room and closed the

4243
05:12:59,159 --> 05:12:59,919
door behind him.

4244
05:13:00,840 --> 05:13:06,279
Speaker 2: Look at this, This is the kind of competent person

4245
05:13:06,840 --> 05:13:11,840
in the military that will be doing the things in

4246
05:13:12,319 --> 05:13:18,880
a theoretical future event, knowing like feeling shame and knowing

4247
05:13:18,959 --> 05:13:21,360
that he's doing the wrong thing. But he took the

4248
05:13:21,439 --> 05:13:24,799
coward's way of saying, well, you know, because of my

4249
05:13:24,959 --> 05:13:29,360
normalcy bias, I'll stick with the government, and probably cowardice

4250
05:13:29,360 --> 05:13:32,720
as well, because he wasn't willing to stand up and

4251
05:13:33,080 --> 05:13:37,680
assert himself, you know, like a man when the uprising happened,

4252
05:13:37,759 --> 05:13:41,880
because again normalcy bias, he's like, that's not normal. His

4253
05:13:42,200 --> 05:13:45,720
government isn't behaving in a normal fashion. He probably thinks

4254
05:13:45,759 --> 05:13:48,919
of himself as the only sane person there, and then

4255
05:13:49,040 --> 05:13:50,080
this happens.

4256
05:13:51,520 --> 05:13:54,159
Speaker 1: Some men who are in leadership position or just followers.

4257
05:13:54,560 --> 05:13:58,080
Speaker 2: These are the choices that we have to make, will

4258
05:13:58,200 --> 05:14:00,479
have to make, and we do every day. You make

4259
05:14:00,560 --> 05:14:06,919
small compromises. The earlier you stopped making small compromises, the

4260
05:14:07,040 --> 05:14:09,759
better your chances of not making big compromises.

4261
05:14:12,400 --> 05:14:15,400
Speaker 1: Some of the officers of the garrison now crowded around Rojo,

4262
05:14:15,840 --> 05:14:19,720
with whom most of them knew because he had taught there,

4263
05:14:20,040 --> 05:14:22,439
trying to draw information from him about the plans of

4264
05:14:22,479 --> 05:14:26,040
the procedures and the prospects for relief. He told them little,

4265
05:14:26,360 --> 05:14:32,479
but he sensed, but they sensed his sympathy. Finally, one

4266
05:14:32,520 --> 05:14:35,159
of them asked him to join them. Rojo cast down

4267
05:14:35,240 --> 05:14:37,919
his eyes and did not answer. Immediately, he made no

4268
05:14:38,119 --> 05:14:41,840
indignant repudiation of the suggestion, no declaration of loyalties for

4269
05:14:41,880 --> 05:14:45,680
the republic. Eventually, he said, if I did this very night,

4270
05:14:45,799 --> 05:14:47,799
my wife and children in Madrid would be killed.

4271
05:14:48,000 --> 05:14:51,479
Speaker 2: And he probably just realized that. Yeah.

4272
05:14:53,000 --> 05:14:55,400
Speaker 1: He left his pouch full of fine tobacco for them,

4273
05:14:55,680 --> 05:15:01,040
and as he blindfolded, and as he was blindfolded preparatory

4274
05:15:01,119 --> 05:15:05,479
to be led out, he suddenly cried Viva Espagna. When

4275
05:15:05,520 --> 05:15:07,840
he reached the outer gate and the blindfold was removed,

4276
05:15:07,880 --> 05:15:10,799
his escorts saw that there were tears in his eyes.

4277
05:15:11,159 --> 05:15:13,720
At that last moment before his departure, he bent over

4278
05:15:13,799 --> 05:15:17,360
and murmured to Captain Alamann standing beside him, for the

4279
05:15:17,439 --> 05:15:22,240
love of God, keep hunting for the entrance to the mines. Inside,

4280
05:15:22,319 --> 05:15:26,319
Muscardo was pacing a corridor an aisle at an aid

4281
05:15:26,479 --> 05:15:29,439
at his side. For a long time, he was silent.

4282
05:15:29,520 --> 05:15:31,880
Then he said, I just can't understand why a man

4283
05:15:32,000 --> 05:15:35,360
of Major Rojo's integrity did not remain with us. The

4284
05:15:35,479 --> 05:15:39,000
aid said nothing. Minutes later Muscolo burst out again. Do

4285
05:15:39,119 --> 05:15:40,680
you think it would have been proper if I had

4286
05:15:40,680 --> 05:15:43,520
shaken his hand? I wanted to do it, but I couldn't.

4287
05:15:45,439 --> 05:15:49,799
At the post office, Rojo handed over to Major Luis Barcelo,

4288
05:15:50,639 --> 05:15:53,319
head of the Defense Committee, the scrap of paper containing

4289
05:15:53,400 --> 05:15:57,959
Muscardo's defiant replied to the surrender terms. Barcello was a

4290
05:15:58,479 --> 05:16:02,080
maximal revolutionary. He had been in charge of the execution

4291
05:16:02,240 --> 05:16:05,959
of the Nationalists officers captured at the Carabanco barracks in

4292
05:16:06,080 --> 05:16:08,240
Madrid in July, and at the end of the war

4293
05:16:08,720 --> 05:16:14,119
was to fight his own commander, Colonel Sigis sigis Mundo Casado,

4294
05:16:14,360 --> 05:16:18,279
for days when ordered to surrender Madrid, until Cassado captured

4295
05:16:18,319 --> 05:16:22,599
and shot him. Flushing with anger as he read Muscado's words,

4296
05:16:22,919 --> 05:16:27,840
Barcelo lunge for the nearest telephone artillery batteries. Good, this

4297
05:16:28,040 --> 05:16:31,599
is Major Barcelo. Fire night and day on the Alcazar.

4298
05:16:32,200 --> 05:16:35,240
Erase it leave no stone longer than my little finger.

4299
05:16:36,759 --> 05:16:39,479
At ten forty five in the morning, the artillery fire resumed.

4300
05:16:40,000 --> 05:16:42,240
At almost that very moment, the wife of one of

4301
05:16:42,279 --> 05:16:45,080
the soldiers of the garrison named Valero gave berts to

4302
05:16:45,200 --> 05:16:47,680
his first child on a table in the electricians who

4303
05:16:47,880 --> 05:16:53,200
workshop in the north cellar. He was named Restituto Alcazar Valero.

4304
05:16:53,680 --> 05:17:02,159
The castle restored. How great is that? Yeah. The next evening,

4305
05:17:02,279 --> 05:17:05,119
at ten o'clock, the besiegers of the Alcazar sent another

4306
05:17:05,159 --> 05:17:09,200
message by megaphone to the defenders. Major Rojo had arranged

4307
05:17:09,439 --> 05:17:14,119
to honor Colonel Muscado's one request. The next morning a

4308
05:17:14,159 --> 05:17:17,240
priest would visit them, as they had asked. Canon and

4309
05:17:17,319 --> 05:17:22,000
Adique Vasquez Camarasa was no ordinary priest, formally attached to

4310
05:17:22,040 --> 05:17:25,040
the cathedral in Madrid. Once the title of Canon, his

4311
05:17:25,200 --> 05:17:28,439
reputation as one of the most progressive clergymen in Spain

4312
05:17:29,159 --> 05:17:31,680
had saved him from the fate of hundreds of his

4313
05:17:31,799 --> 05:17:36,040
brother priests, from the fate of hundreds of his brother

4314
05:17:36,159 --> 05:17:39,319
priests in the capital city. If he ever helped or

4315
05:17:39,439 --> 05:17:42,119
interceded for any of them, or expressed any regret for

4316
05:17:42,200 --> 05:17:46,439
their fate, history has not recorded it. Approaching the Alcazar,

4317
05:17:46,799 --> 05:17:50,520
where he was met by Major Barcelo, he exchanged a

4318
05:17:50,599 --> 05:17:54,599
revolutionary clenched fist salute with the militia on the battle lines.

4319
05:17:55,080 --> 05:17:57,240
Speaker 2: I prefer the open hand personally.

4320
05:18:00,000 --> 05:18:03,200
Speaker 1: Instructions were to take advantage of every possible opportunity to

4321
05:18:03,840 --> 05:18:08,959
persuade the garrison to surrender. At the Bizagara gate of

4322
05:18:09,080 --> 05:18:13,959
the fortress, Canon Kamarasa was met by Captain Sons de Diego,

4323
05:18:14,599 --> 05:18:16,479
who had been acting in the place of a priest

4324
05:18:16,560 --> 05:18:19,240
for the garrison since they had none. He had lost

4325
05:18:19,240 --> 05:18:21,520
an eye to a shop and a wound suffered while

4326
05:18:21,560 --> 05:18:25,639
conducting a funeral service. He conveyed Colonel Muscardo's word that

4327
05:18:25,720 --> 05:18:28,639
Kamadasso would not be harmed and would be allowed to

4328
05:18:28,720 --> 05:18:31,799
leave within three hours. Then he blindfolded him and let

4329
05:18:31,880 --> 05:18:34,279
him inside the building, where he took him roughly by

4330
05:18:34,319 --> 05:18:36,759
the shoulders, shook him a little and said, can you

4331
05:18:36,880 --> 05:18:41,080
say mass Frightened by the physical contact, Cammarasso muttered, all right,

4332
05:18:41,200 --> 05:18:44,080
if you wish, sensing his fear. One of the men

4333
05:18:44,200 --> 05:18:47,159
standing nearby said, with a twist of his lips, don't worry.

4334
05:18:47,479 --> 05:18:51,880
It's only the crowd out there that murders priests. He's

4335
05:18:51,919 --> 05:18:52,479
not a priest.

4336
05:18:53,439 --> 05:18:59,880
Speaker 2: Since I rainbow flag outside, I'm not allowed to say,

4337
05:19:00,400 --> 05:19:01,799
Oh I am, I'm a prat.

4338
05:19:04,319 --> 05:19:09,319
Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to say that officially, since Camarasa had

4339
05:19:09,439 --> 05:19:12,520
just hailed, had just been hailed by that crowd out

4340
05:19:12,599 --> 05:19:17,279
thereruck that thrust struck home. The defenders of the Alcazar

4341
05:19:17,319 --> 05:19:20,000
of Toledo were not fools. They knew very well what

4342
05:19:20,119 --> 05:19:22,119
kind of priests would be the only priests allowed by

4343
05:19:22,159 --> 05:19:25,759
the besiegers to visit them. Some of them, surely recalled

4344
05:19:25,840 --> 05:19:30,479
for Spaniards knew not their own extraordinary history. Vividly how

4345
05:19:30,560 --> 05:19:33,799
more than a thousand years before, King Paleo, standing at

4346
05:19:33,880 --> 05:19:38,279
Covendonga with his back literally to the wall, a giant

4347
05:19:38,400 --> 05:19:41,599
rock wall hundreds of feet high, ruling a realm twenty

4348
05:19:41,680 --> 05:19:44,639
miles by twenty, facing an empire the stretch from his

4349
05:19:44,840 --> 05:19:47,799
valley to the borders of China, was urged by a

4350
05:19:47,880 --> 05:19:51,880
bishop named Opas to surrender because his prospects were hopeless

4351
05:19:51,880 --> 05:19:55,000
and he would enjoy many benefits alongside the Moors, and

4352
05:19:55,080 --> 05:19:58,599
how Paleo had answered him, Our hope is in Christ

4353
05:20:00,000 --> 05:20:02,959
little mountain will be the salvation of Spain, which it was.

4354
05:20:03,119 --> 05:20:09,439
Here was yeah, yeah, here was the new bishop Opas,

4355
05:20:09,759 --> 05:20:12,200
and they intended to give him the same name Palo

4356
05:20:12,360 --> 05:20:17,080
had given Opus, the same answer Palo had given Opus.

4357
05:20:17,400 --> 05:20:19,479
But it was not for this that they had brought

4358
05:20:19,520 --> 05:20:24,000
a priest into their stronghold. Tamaraso was taken to meet

4359
05:20:24,040 --> 05:20:27,520
Colonel Muscardo in his office. Major Rojo had known what

4360
05:20:27,759 --> 05:20:30,520
manner of man he was dealing with. Camarasa did not.

4361
05:20:31,240 --> 05:20:34,319
He began a monologue about the happy life in Madrid. Yes,

4362
05:20:34,400 --> 05:20:36,720
it was true that all the churches were closed, but

4363
05:20:36,759 --> 05:20:40,319
at least they were no longer being burnt down. Priests

4364
05:20:40,439 --> 05:20:43,240
loyal to the government were quite safe. Why his own

4365
05:20:43,319 --> 05:20:48,840
house was protected by an anarchist guard. There was plenty

4366
05:20:48,880 --> 05:20:52,639
of food and water. It's hilarious that he thinks that

4367
05:20:52,799 --> 05:20:56,200
this is going to appeal to it. I know, I mean,

4368
05:20:58,759 --> 05:21:01,880
this is the this is just how clueless leftists are

4369
05:21:02,119 --> 05:21:04,759
always have been. Oh yeah, it comes to when it

4370
05:21:04,799 --> 05:21:05,599
comes to partisans.

4371
05:21:05,880 --> 05:21:07,279
Speaker 2: I'm not affected by it.

4372
05:21:10,840 --> 05:21:15,880
Speaker 1: The contempt Muscardo felt must have been almost tangible. But

4373
05:21:16,000 --> 05:21:18,560
it was contempt for the man, combined as only a

4374
05:21:18,639 --> 05:21:21,439
true Catholic can combine it with reverence for the office

4375
05:21:21,479 --> 05:21:24,080
and the powers he held from Christ. Despite collaborating with

4376
05:21:24,159 --> 05:21:27,439
his enemies. Soon the Crusader commander had had more than

4377
05:21:27,560 --> 05:21:31,080
enough of Camadasa's talk. Did you come prepared to confess

4378
05:21:31,200 --> 05:21:34,680
us and celebrate Holy Mass? Muscardo demanded, that's all we want.

4379
05:21:35,400 --> 05:21:40,080
Camarasa nodded dumbly. At the southeast corner of the cellar,

4380
05:21:40,240 --> 05:21:43,000
an altar had been prepared, its platform covered with a

4381
05:21:43,119 --> 05:21:45,639
rich carpet upon which the royal arms were stitched in

4382
05:21:45,720 --> 05:21:48,400
purple and gold. The only light came from the dim

4383
05:21:48,520 --> 05:21:52,720
and flickering animal fat lamps. The homili was Comados's opportunity.

4384
05:21:53,159 --> 05:21:55,799
He expounded at length on the hopelessness of their struggle.

4385
05:22:00,080 --> 05:22:02,880
In a few days, if they did not surrender, the

4386
05:22:02,919 --> 05:22:05,240
alcazar would be blown to bits, and all of them

4387
05:22:05,319 --> 05:22:07,799
with it. God would judge the men who allowed this

4388
05:22:07,919 --> 05:22:10,240
to happen as the murderers of women and children who

4389
05:22:10,279 --> 05:22:15,479
would die in the explosion. You hear this, I mean,

4390
05:22:16,080 --> 05:22:20,680
this is just but this right here, I mean right

4391
05:22:20,720 --> 05:22:24,599
wingers pick up on this, Yes, like this.

4392
05:22:26,279 --> 05:22:28,319
Speaker 2: Because there, because they're libtards for Trump.

4393
05:22:29,639 --> 05:22:31,759
Speaker 1: He went on and on in this vein. Some of

4394
05:22:31,799 --> 05:22:34,479
the women began to sob, some of the men were shaken.

4395
05:22:34,680 --> 05:22:36,599
He talked so long that he had no time to

4396
05:22:36,639 --> 05:22:39,840
hear individual confessions, but could only give a general absolution.

4397
05:22:40,639 --> 05:22:45,759
But he did finally say the mass, baptized as Tuto

4398
05:22:46,200 --> 05:22:49,919
Alcazar Valerro, and brought holy communions to the seriously wounded

4399
05:22:50,040 --> 05:22:53,520
lying in the infirmary. Then he went again to Moscado's office,

4400
05:22:53,599 --> 05:22:56,599
asking to speak with him privately. He pressed the argument

4401
05:22:56,680 --> 05:22:58,799
that he was sacrificing the women and children to his

4402
05:22:58,880 --> 05:23:03,080
own stubbornness and vanity. Even if he would not surrender himself,

4403
05:23:03,200 --> 05:23:05,680
he should let the women and children go. Surely they

4404
05:23:05,759 --> 05:23:09,560
wanted to No signor, Moscado said, then, his voice rising

4405
05:23:09,599 --> 05:23:14,119
as Camaraso went on, no signor, no signor. Unable to

4406
05:23:14,200 --> 05:23:18,560
penetrate the crusader's armor, Camadasa now began implying that he

4407
05:23:18,720 --> 05:23:21,479
was keeping the women and children in the alcazar by force.

4408
05:23:22,439 --> 05:23:26,479
Moscardo called in Carmen Romero de Salamanca, daughter of one

4409
05:23:26,520 --> 05:23:29,919
of the principal officers, and wives of a civil guard

4410
05:23:30,000 --> 05:23:33,840
lieutenant of the and wife of a civil guard lieutenant

4411
05:23:33,919 --> 05:23:36,599
of the garrison, and told her this priest was saying

4412
05:23:36,639 --> 05:23:39,439
that women of the Alcazar were being held there against

4413
05:23:39,479 --> 05:23:42,479
their will, all the fires of the mothers and wives

4414
05:23:42,919 --> 05:23:45,599
of men who fought seven hundred and twenty two years

4415
05:23:45,680 --> 05:23:49,200
to reconquer Spain for the infidel. Was her answer, held here,

4416
05:23:49,520 --> 05:23:52,319
that's a lie. I've talked with every woman in the Alcazar,

4417
05:23:52,400 --> 05:23:54,400
and all of them think as I do. Either we

4418
05:23:54,479 --> 05:23:57,279
will leave here free with our men and children, or

4419
05:23:57,319 --> 05:23:59,279
else we will die here with them into ruins.

4420
05:24:03,840 --> 05:24:11,279
Speaker 2: She's more manly than the priest, the libtard priest. Yeah.

4421
05:24:12,639 --> 05:24:15,279
Speaker 1: After that there was nothing more to be said. Moscardo

4422
05:24:15,400 --> 05:24:21,919
coldly ordered Camadausa escorted out. Two weeks later, Canon Vasquez

4423
05:24:22,000 --> 05:24:25,159
Comdasa left Spain forever and shut up in France, where

4424
05:24:25,159 --> 05:24:27,880
he told the newspaper reporter that he had played no

4425
05:24:28,000 --> 05:24:31,680
part in Spanish politics. Six months later, in Paris, he

4426
05:24:31,720 --> 05:24:34,520
wrote an article stating that his proposal to Muscardo to

4427
05:24:34,599 --> 05:24:38,000
evacuate the women and children from the Arcazar was totally

4428
05:24:38,319 --> 05:24:42,279
was entirely his own idea. Since Largo Capieto was known

4429
05:24:42,360 --> 05:24:44,439
to have been trying hard to get the women and

4430
05:24:44,520 --> 05:24:48,000
children out. This self serving declaration was, to say the least,

4431
05:24:48,240 --> 05:24:52,560
opens a serious doubt. Commadasa also said he admired the

4432
05:24:52,599 --> 05:24:56,080
heroism of the defenders of the Alcazar. He survived the

4433
05:24:56,119 --> 05:24:59,040
war and Nazi occupied France and died in nineteen forty six,

4434
05:24:59,279 --> 05:25:06,400
despised by both sides. The ancient fate of traders. But

4435
05:25:06,520 --> 05:25:09,080
he had said, the only mass celebrated in the Alcazar

4436
05:25:09,119 --> 05:25:12,200
of Toledo during all the days of its siege, and

4437
05:25:12,360 --> 05:25:16,639
that is what men remembered for many years. Yeah, yeah,

4438
05:25:16,919 --> 05:25:25,919
I mean people have a lot to say, Like people Catholics,

4439
05:25:25,959 --> 05:25:31,720
look at your pope. You don't think we know? Oh yeah,

4440
05:25:31,720 --> 05:25:32,200
I'm sure.

4441
05:25:32,959 --> 05:25:37,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, look at the history.

4442
05:25:37,959 --> 05:25:40,959
Speaker 1: I mean, there have been bad popes.

4443
05:25:41,479 --> 05:25:41,680
Speaker 2: We know.

4444
05:25:42,959 --> 05:25:43,599
Speaker 1: That's not the point.

4445
05:25:44,720 --> 05:25:48,200
Speaker 2: Let's see where was I and will be remembered for

4446
05:25:48,279 --> 05:25:49,119
a thousand years?

4447
05:25:50,319 --> 05:25:55,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me see. But he said the only mass celebrated.

4448
05:25:57,080 --> 05:25:59,159
But he said, the only mass celebrated in the Alcazar

4449
05:25:59,200 --> 05:26:01,240
of today though, during all the days of its siege,

4450
05:26:01,720 --> 05:26:04,759
and that is what men remembered for many years. So

4451
05:26:04,919 --> 05:26:07,599
long as General Franco lived and ruled, the site was

4452
05:26:07,680 --> 05:26:09,919
marked by a plaque in the cellar corner where the

4453
05:26:10,040 --> 05:26:13,720
mass was said, reading here the Divine King visited our heroes.

4454
05:26:15,000 --> 05:26:18,439
On September thirteenth, the Chilean ambassador obtained permission from the

4455
05:26:18,520 --> 05:26:21,240
government to make a last attempt to persuade the defenders

4456
05:26:21,279 --> 05:26:24,680
of the Alcazar to surrender. After five hours of argument,

4457
05:26:24,759 --> 05:26:29,200
he induced Major Barcelo and his defense committee to guarantee

4458
05:26:29,240 --> 05:26:31,959
the lives of all the garrison if they surrendered, for

4459
05:26:32,119 --> 05:26:35,880
whatever their reluctant promise was worth. For whatever their reluctant

4460
05:26:35,919 --> 05:26:39,119
promise was worth, it did not matter because Colonel Muscardo

4461
05:26:39,479 --> 05:26:42,520
refused to receive the ambassador, believing that any further peace

4462
05:26:42,599 --> 05:26:46,319
negotiations at this critical moment would break. The morale of

4463
05:26:46,360 --> 05:26:49,560
the garrison shaken by the steady approach of the tunnels,

4464
05:26:49,880 --> 05:26:53,119
which they had no way to stop. The next day,

4465
05:26:53,159 --> 05:26:55,720
the two tunnels reached the walls of the Alcazar, and

4466
05:26:55,799 --> 05:26:57,840
the sounds of the miners could be heard by everyone

4467
05:26:57,959 --> 05:27:00,959
beneath the cellar floor. No longer did Lieutenant Barbarer need

4468
05:27:01,000 --> 05:27:05,439
his stethoscope. Muscardo moved everything away from this part of

4469
05:27:05,479 --> 05:27:08,680
the cellar, strung barbed wire around it, and set up

4470
05:27:08,720 --> 05:27:11,159
a small chapel with the statue of the Blessed Virgin

4471
05:27:11,159 --> 05:27:13,720
Mary at the edge of the wire. Outside, the militia

4472
05:27:13,799 --> 05:27:16,599
chanted over and over, send out the women. It will

4473
05:27:16,680 --> 05:27:18,799
soon be too late. Send out the women. It will

4474
05:27:18,840 --> 05:27:24,240
soon be too late. On the fifteenth, a four hour

4475
05:27:24,319 --> 05:27:27,279
bombardment of the Alcazar produced a long vertical split in

4476
05:27:27,319 --> 05:27:30,040
the east wall. Five of the garrison were killed and

4477
05:27:30,159 --> 05:27:33,759
four wounded, bringing its total casualties to more than forty

4478
05:27:33,919 --> 05:27:37,279
killed and over two hundred wounded. During the bombardment, the

4479
05:27:37,360 --> 05:27:40,720
defenders could clearly hear the miners enlarging the tunnels below them.

4480
05:27:41,080 --> 05:27:44,360
Lieutenant Barber tried to make a countermine, but his men

4481
05:27:44,639 --> 05:27:46,959
were too debilitated by the poor food and lack of

4482
05:27:47,040 --> 05:27:49,560
sleep for neurably two months to be able to make

4483
05:27:49,639 --> 05:27:53,240
significant progress into the hard rock. With no miner's explosive

4484
05:27:53,319 --> 05:27:57,400
charges available. Through the day of the sixteenth, small detonations

4485
05:27:57,439 --> 05:27:59,919
continued in one of the mines, but none were heard

4486
05:28:00,080 --> 05:28:03,159
from the other, causing Lieutenant Barbara to conclude that it

4487
05:28:03,279 --> 05:28:07,119
had been completed. About new nationalist bombers struck the city,

4488
05:28:07,720 --> 05:28:11,439
showing the defenders they were not forgotten. That night, under

4489
05:28:11,479 --> 05:28:14,400
the shadow of the impending detonation of the mines, Lieutenant

4490
05:28:14,479 --> 05:28:19,720
Fernando Badiantos deserted. He was the only officer to desert

4491
05:28:19,759 --> 05:28:22,520
the Alcazar during the siege. It did him no good.

4492
05:28:22,919 --> 05:28:25,360
A militia patrol in the city picked him up, tried

4493
05:28:25,400 --> 05:28:29,560
him on the spot, and shot him good. By sundown

4494
05:28:29,639 --> 05:28:33,919
September seventeenth, all sounds of movement and activity the Alcazar

4495
05:28:34,000 --> 05:28:36,520
had ceased. The mines were ready, each of the two

4496
05:28:36,599 --> 05:28:39,560
tunnels packed at its head with two and a half

4497
05:28:39,680 --> 05:28:43,840
tons of TNT. Newsmen from all over the world encouraged

4498
05:28:43,840 --> 05:28:46,799
to come by Largo. Cabajiro's government had gathered to see

4499
05:28:46,840 --> 05:28:49,360
the explosion which would bring down the battered fortress.

4500
05:28:49,639 --> 05:28:49,959
Speaker 2: Isn't that.

4501
05:28:51,439 --> 05:28:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

4502
05:28:52,040 --> 05:28:57,880
Speaker 2: Good, think about it. There's no strategic value in capturing

4503
05:28:58,119 --> 05:29:02,720
the Alcazar for the Republican government. It's strictly to just

4504
05:29:02,959 --> 05:29:08,560
impose their will on them. They bring in media from

4505
05:29:08,639 --> 05:29:10,959
around the world to watch it get destroyed.

4506
05:29:12,880 --> 05:29:20,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just a symbol, Yeah, exactly. That's what communists do,

4507
05:29:21,159 --> 05:29:24,000
That's what radicals do. They have to destroy all your symbols.

4508
05:29:24,360 --> 05:29:26,560
Speaker 2: This is your symbol. We're going to destroy it and

4509
05:29:26,720 --> 05:29:31,360
destroy you. And this is what you get for defying us. Yeah.

4510
05:29:32,799 --> 05:29:35,080
Speaker 1: Major of Barcelo, fearing that a large part of the

4511
05:29:35,119 --> 05:29:37,479
city might be damaged when the Alcazar was destroyed, was

4512
05:29:37,520 --> 05:29:40,720
trying to evacuate all the remainding inhabitants, but many refused

4513
05:29:40,759 --> 05:29:43,680
to go to attack. Columns were designated to strike the

4514
05:29:43,720 --> 05:29:48,200
Alcazar ten minutes after the explosion and overwhelm any surviving defenders.

4515
05:29:48,959 --> 05:29:50,880
It was still somewhere on the high plains of Castile,

4516
05:29:51,200 --> 05:29:53,439
and the night was warm, especially in the cellars of

4517
05:29:53,479 --> 05:29:56,520
the Alcazar, into which the day's heat had penetrated through

4518
05:29:56,560 --> 05:30:00,799
the gaping holes left by the constant shell fire. In

4519
05:30:00,919 --> 05:30:03,959
his windowless room in the center, Colonel Muscardo bent over

4520
05:30:04,080 --> 05:30:07,000
his daily log of the siege, barely able to see

4521
05:30:07,360 --> 05:30:11,479
it by the faint, flickering light of the little lamp,

4522
05:30:11,599 --> 05:30:14,040
fed only by the stinking fat of the horse they

4523
05:30:14,080 --> 05:30:18,439
had killed that day from meat. Mouscardo's tall, gaunt bearded

4524
05:30:18,520 --> 05:30:21,759
figure could have sat for one of the world famous

4525
05:30:21,840 --> 05:30:27,080
portraits of Toledo's supreme artist, El Greco, with his strange

4526
05:30:27,159 --> 05:30:33,680
elongated faces and forms. The guttering light through the shadow

4527
05:30:33,680 --> 05:30:36,119
of Muscardo's head and shoulders on the wall, like some

4528
05:30:36,360 --> 05:30:40,080
dying giant. He was totally alone. The Alcazar was deathly

4529
05:30:40,159 --> 05:30:43,439
as silent. Beneath his feet five tons of high explosive

4530
05:30:43,520 --> 05:30:47,000
waited for detonation. Muscardo had finished his entry in the log.

4531
05:30:47,240 --> 05:30:50,040
His pen hovered above over the paper, and he lowered

4532
05:30:50,080 --> 05:30:53,880
it to write one last sentence, all things possible having

4533
05:30:53,959 --> 05:30:58,040
been done, we now commend ourselves to God. It was

4534
05:30:58,119 --> 05:31:00,360
what he had told his son Louise to do in

4535
05:31:00,439 --> 05:31:02,880
the face of certain death. Under the word he drew

4536
05:31:03,119 --> 05:31:05,279
a thick black line and it.

4537
05:31:05,799 --> 05:31:09,840
Speaker 2: Carol is such an excellent writer. But all this stuff

4538
05:31:09,959 --> 05:31:14,119
is extremely well documented as having taken place. I just

4539
05:31:14,200 --> 05:31:15,080
can't point that out.

4540
05:31:15,959 --> 05:31:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, having done all to Stan, Saint Paul had written

4541
05:31:20,080 --> 05:31:23,639
to the Ephesians eight hundred and thirty years before the

4542
05:31:23,680 --> 05:31:27,880
siege of the Alcazars Toledo in nineteen thirty six. Raymond

4543
05:31:27,919 --> 05:31:31,080
of Toulouse, the supreme crusader, who led his men to

4544
05:31:31,200 --> 05:31:34,119
Jerusalem when all others had given up and took the

4545
05:31:34,200 --> 05:31:37,439
Holy City for Christ, his Lord and King by storm

4546
05:31:37,560 --> 05:31:40,319
in the year ten ninety nine, had suffered mortal wounds

4547
05:31:40,759 --> 05:31:44,240
when a burning roof fell on him in Castile in

4548
05:31:44,400 --> 05:31:47,840
Castle Pilgrim, which he had built under siege by the Muslims.

4549
05:31:48,119 --> 05:31:52,040
Presuming he reached the heaven he sought. Perhaps Raymond of

4550
05:31:52,080 --> 05:31:54,919
Toulouse asked God that night for the lives of Jose

4551
05:31:55,119 --> 05:32:01,400
Muscardo and his crusaders. Seen in the morning, all firing

4552
05:32:01,479 --> 05:32:06,000
on the Alcazar stopped everyone inside and outside it knew

4553
05:32:06,119 --> 05:32:10,319
what that meant. The next thirteen minutes crawled by unleaden feet.

4554
05:32:11,759 --> 05:32:14,040
At six point thirty one, the mine on the southwest

4555
05:32:14,040 --> 05:32:17,319
side of the Alcazar exploded, with a thunderous roar heard

4556
05:32:17,479 --> 05:32:22,439
in Madrid forty miles away. The southwest tower, one hundred

4557
05:32:22,479 --> 05:32:25,319
feet high, rose up toward the sky like a rocket,

4558
05:32:25,680 --> 05:32:29,400
then crashed to earth in a gigantic stone avalanche. A

4559
05:32:29,520 --> 05:32:32,240
nearby truck was hurled five hundred feet into the air.

4560
05:32:32,439 --> 05:32:35,200
Its engine tore loose from the truck body and fell

4561
05:32:35,279 --> 05:32:37,479
through the roof of a house half a mile away.

4562
05:32:38,240 --> 05:32:41,319
The whole city of Taledo disappeared from view in an

4563
05:32:41,479 --> 05:32:46,639
enormous rolling cloud of black smoke. At six forty five,

4564
05:32:46,720 --> 05:32:51,360
the main attack column, headed by six hundred picked assault guards,

4565
05:32:51,840 --> 05:32:57,240
charged from Zokodovar Square, shouting, We've killed the dogs. At them,

4566
05:32:58,119 --> 05:33:00,919
where the long defended walls had been, they found great

4567
05:33:01,000 --> 05:33:04,200
mounds and masses of rubble, looking for ways through them,

4568
05:33:04,439 --> 05:33:08,680
sure of their victory, suddenly they heard, suddenly, they heard

4569
05:33:08,759 --> 05:33:12,240
a totally unexpected sound ahead of them, the high, clear

4570
05:33:12,360 --> 05:33:15,400
notes of a bugle. The fifteen year old trumpeter of

4571
05:33:15,439 --> 05:33:19,200
the Algazar was sounding the call to arms. Within the

4572
05:33:19,279 --> 05:33:22,360
shock and deafening roar must have been for the first

4573
05:33:22,439 --> 05:33:25,799
minute or two totally paralyzing. But then in every part

4574
05:33:25,840 --> 05:33:28,560
of the cellars where the defenders had stayed that terrible night,

4575
05:33:28,880 --> 05:33:30,959
they opened their eyes, looked around them, and saw that

4576
05:33:31,040 --> 05:33:34,080
they were still alive, and so were almost all of

4577
05:33:34,119 --> 05:33:37,799
their campagnatos, and even a newcomer, a baby girl, delivered

4578
05:33:37,799 --> 05:33:43,040
immediately after the explosion and named hose Josefa de Milagra,

4579
05:33:43,880 --> 05:33:50,959
Josefa of the Miracle. The enormous adamantine crag upon which

4580
05:33:51,000 --> 05:33:54,479
Salaedo was built had proved tougher than anyone had imagined,

4581
05:33:54,759 --> 05:33:57,799
confining the effects of the explosion to the area immediately

4582
05:33:57,919 --> 05:34:01,000
above the mine. A later count showed that only five

4583
05:34:01,080 --> 05:34:04,040
of the garrison died in the explosion, and the second

4584
05:34:04,119 --> 05:34:09,360
mine in the northeast quadrant never did go off. First scattered,

4585
05:34:09,560 --> 05:34:13,040
then growing to a crescendo, came shouts of Viva Cristoree,

4586
05:34:13,560 --> 05:34:20,400
Hail Christ the King. The officers, knowing an attack must come,

4587
05:34:20,479 --> 05:34:23,080
quickly ordered the bugler to blow and sent them into

4588
05:34:23,159 --> 05:34:25,880
their posts, or to where their posts had been, since

4589
05:34:26,000 --> 05:34:29,319
no one yet knew what was left outside. Rushing through

4590
05:34:29,360 --> 05:34:31,560
the courtyard, some of the defenders stopped in shock and

4591
05:34:31,639 --> 05:34:33,759
horror at the sight of what appeared to be two

4592
05:34:33,880 --> 05:34:36,119
severed heads in the middle of it. But they were

4593
05:34:36,159 --> 05:34:39,080
not severed. They belonged to Teresa Gonzalez, to meat dresser

4594
05:34:39,200 --> 05:34:42,880
and her husband, buried up to their necks in rebel, rebbel,

4595
05:34:43,080 --> 05:34:47,840
but miraculously only slightly injured. Teresa cried heroically to them,

4596
05:34:48,159 --> 05:34:50,759
don't bother with me. The reds are attacking, and so

4597
05:34:51,759 --> 05:34:56,599
that's I mean, this is all footnoted. Yeah, And so

4598
05:34:56,759 --> 05:35:01,159
the defenders ran past her to their posts cellars next

4599
05:35:01,200 --> 05:35:04,040
to the smoking crater where the mine had exploded. Several

4600
05:35:04,040 --> 05:35:05,799
of the women hurried to the shrine of the Blessed

4601
05:35:05,880 --> 05:35:09,880
Virgin Mary, where Colonel Muscardo had which Colonel Muscardo had

4602
05:35:09,919 --> 05:35:12,360
put there. Her statue had been blown over, but was

4603
05:35:12,400 --> 05:35:14,919
only slightly chipped. They knelt in prayer to thank her

4604
05:35:14,959 --> 05:35:19,759
for their deliverance. Soon Muscardo himself joined them there. Above,

4605
05:35:19,840 --> 05:35:23,360
the Revolutionary assault force, still struggling to penetrate the piles

4606
05:35:23,400 --> 05:35:26,439
of rubble, saw the defenders appear above them, sighting and

4607
05:35:26,520 --> 05:35:30,080
firing their rifles with deadly accuracy, curling grenades down the

4608
05:35:30,159 --> 05:35:33,959
jumbled slope of stone. Amazed by their survival, the attackers

4609
05:35:34,000 --> 05:35:37,639
hesitated and fell back, waiting for reinforcements, while the defender

4610
05:35:37,720 --> 05:35:42,240
swiftly began building barricades. Nothing was easier with rock fragments

4611
05:35:42,279 --> 05:35:45,119
everywhere to cover the openings in the rubble. When a

4612
05:35:45,200 --> 05:35:48,880
tank emerged from behind the Santa Cruz Museum, rumbled across

4613
05:35:49,040 --> 05:35:52,319
zuccadov Or Square and smashed the iron gate of the Alcazar,

4614
05:35:52,439 --> 05:35:56,360
knocking over a truck beyond loaded with stones. The defenders

4615
05:35:56,439 --> 05:35:59,639
responded with one of their few bombs. The tank was

4616
05:35:59,720 --> 05:36:03,080
undone dmage started, but it startled crew backed it away.

4617
05:36:03,520 --> 05:36:05,880
In any case, it was not clear that there was

4618
05:36:06,000 --> 05:36:09,080
room for it to get through the rubble. Meanwhile, the

4619
05:36:09,159 --> 05:36:12,119
other column of attackers was ambushed by three defenders with

4620
05:36:12,200 --> 05:36:15,400
a machine gun and stopped in its tracks. But a

4621
05:36:15,439 --> 05:36:17,919
group of about a dozen men found a blind spot,

4622
05:36:18,159 --> 05:36:21,159
entered the alcazar on the second floor from outside and

4623
05:36:21,279 --> 05:36:24,599
open fire on the defenders below, raising a red banner

4624
05:36:24,680 --> 05:36:27,599
on a girder. The effects of the explosion had left

4625
05:36:27,639 --> 05:36:30,599
the defenders no access to the second floor, but if

4626
05:36:30,599 --> 05:36:34,159
they could somehow dislodge these men from their apparently impregnable position,

4627
05:36:34,639 --> 05:36:40,400
the Alcazar was doomed. Lieutenant Benito Gomez Olivares, commanding in

4628
05:36:40,439 --> 05:36:44,680
the room below, took charge its ceiling, which which was

4629
05:36:44,759 --> 05:36:48,360
the floor of the second story, had several large holes

4630
05:36:48,360 --> 05:36:50,840
in it due to shell fire and the mine explosion,

4631
05:36:50,919 --> 05:36:53,799
but they were twenty five feet above him. The longest

4632
05:36:53,880 --> 05:36:56,880
ladders in the alcazar were barely half that length. Gomez

4633
05:36:56,919 --> 05:37:03,599
Alverde a Lavaras a Lavares lashed sets of two ladders together,

4634
05:37:03,759 --> 05:37:05,840
set them against several of the holes, and led his

4635
05:37:06,000 --> 05:37:09,119
men in climbing them. The ladders never designed for such use,

4636
05:37:09,200 --> 05:37:12,240
twisting and bending under their weight, but they stayed up.

4637
05:37:12,680 --> 05:37:16,479
Gomez Alvades and his men emerged shooting on the second floor,

4638
05:37:16,880 --> 05:37:19,040
killed all but two of the attackers and tore down

4639
05:37:19,119 --> 05:37:22,279
the red flag from the girder. It was ten to

4640
05:37:22,319 --> 05:37:25,080
twenty in the morning of September eighteenth, and the Alcazar

4641
05:37:25,119 --> 05:37:29,360
of Toledo still held out. In their fury, the besiegers

4642
05:37:29,400 --> 05:37:32,240
fired two hundred and seventy two shells during the rest

4643
05:37:32,279 --> 05:37:34,919
of that day, the most of any day in the siege.

4644
05:37:35,279 --> 05:37:39,360
The cannonade continued on into the night. Muscardo and Lieutenant

4645
05:37:39,439 --> 05:37:42,599
Barber surveyed the damage. The explosion had been concentrated in

4646
05:37:42,720 --> 05:37:44,720
one place, and most of the fall of stones had

4647
05:37:44,759 --> 05:37:47,759
been in the west, away from the interior. There was

4648
05:37:47,799 --> 05:37:52,240
little damage underground outside the area directly over the end

4649
05:37:52,279 --> 05:37:54,880
of the tunnel, which Muscardo had been closed in barbed wire.

4650
05:37:55,520 --> 05:37:58,200
That night, the defenders were served a special festive meal

4651
05:37:58,599 --> 05:38:02,840
luxurious for them, beans and sausage. It was much cooler,

4652
05:38:03,040 --> 05:38:07,240
there was a touch of autumn in the air. Maybe

4653
05:38:07,240 --> 05:38:08,200
we should stop right there.

4654
05:38:08,919 --> 05:38:13,200
Speaker 2: What a crazy story, huh. It's it's when you read

4655
05:38:13,439 --> 05:38:16,080
when you read the general histories and they talk about it,

4656
05:38:16,639 --> 05:38:19,680
they kind of a lot of times they kind of

4657
05:38:21,240 --> 05:38:25,840
make light of how legendary the all Khazar is to

4658
05:38:25,959 --> 05:38:28,560
the right, and how much of a big deal they

4659
05:38:28,680 --> 05:38:30,919
make about it. But when you actually go and tell

4660
05:38:30,959 --> 05:38:34,240
the story, you see how heroic it was, and you

4661
05:38:34,400 --> 05:38:38,720
see it's the perfect illustration of what the struggle is over.

4662
05:38:39,000 --> 05:38:44,080
It's it's people who one hundred percent believe in what

4663
05:38:44,200 --> 05:38:49,639
they're doing from a faith perspective, and people who one

4664
05:38:49,720 --> 05:38:53,479
hundred percent believe in what they're doing from a hatred perspective.

4665
05:38:55,400 --> 05:39:02,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, and you know it's it's like

4666
05:39:02,720 --> 05:39:11,639
historians have said, there's no way you survive a reconquista.

4667
05:39:13,520 --> 05:39:15,759
You don't fight it for seven hundred years unless something

4668
05:39:15,840 --> 05:39:18,759
holds you together. Yeah, and what holds you together is

4669
05:39:18,840 --> 05:39:22,319
your Catholicism and you know, your faith in your you know,

4670
05:39:22,479 --> 05:39:24,159
and your family and your people.

4671
05:39:24,479 --> 05:39:29,759
Speaker 2: And willingness to die like a martyr to move that

4672
05:39:30,000 --> 05:39:34,840
line three feet to the south so that in twenty

4673
05:39:34,959 --> 05:39:39,840
years your children can move it three miles to the

4674
05:39:39,919 --> 05:39:41,400
south and so on.

4675
05:39:43,200 --> 05:39:47,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, people just don't think about that anymore.

4676
05:39:47,520 --> 05:39:49,159
Speaker 2: And that's how we need to start thinking.

4677
05:39:50,360 --> 05:40:00,319
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's when you talk about like localism, people

4678
05:40:00,439 --> 05:40:05,560
just don't get it. Yeah, people don't get what you're

4679
05:40:05,599 --> 05:40:08,639
saying when you start what you're talking about that. Yeah,

4680
05:40:08,720 --> 05:40:11,840
they didn't try to take back the country all at once.

4681
05:40:12,759 --> 05:40:19,159
It was little by little. Yeah, province by province.

4682
05:40:19,680 --> 05:40:23,560
Speaker 2: You have to secure those toll holds or you have nothing,

4683
05:40:25,080 --> 05:40:28,639
you know, and it's great to network with people around

4684
05:40:28,680 --> 05:40:33,799
the country. It's great to have those connections while you

4685
05:40:33,959 --> 05:40:37,919
have them, but it doesn't really mean anything unless you

4686
05:40:38,360 --> 05:40:42,119
secure your local area. And you do that by being

4687
05:40:42,240 --> 05:40:47,319
pro social, being in a place where you can move

4688
05:40:47,439 --> 05:40:52,439
the needle networking with people like you and even times

4689
05:40:52,520 --> 05:40:55,400
that's people that don't think they're like you, or you

4690
05:40:55,560 --> 05:40:58,040
might think they're not like you, but they're like enough.

4691
05:40:58,560 --> 05:41:00,919
You don't have to be a sperg and tell them

4692
05:41:01,000 --> 05:41:06,279
all your wildest fantasies, you know, just it. You can.

4693
05:41:06,439 --> 05:41:08,759
You can get a lot done by just being a

4694
05:41:08,799 --> 05:41:11,840
good neighbor and building from there and turning it into

4695
05:41:11,959 --> 05:41:12,520
real things.

4696
05:41:14,040 --> 05:41:23,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, well social capital, concern and civil civilizational capital really quick. Yeah,

4697
05:41:23,360 --> 05:41:25,479
and at this point, at this point, it has to

4698
05:41:26,799 --> 05:41:28,799
all right, well, I appreciate you doing this with me.

4699
05:41:29,680 --> 05:41:31,599
Let people know where they can find your stuff. I

4700
05:41:31,680 --> 05:41:33,840
hear you have a really nice, like cool T shirt

4701
05:41:34,000 --> 05:41:34,919
that you just can't.

4702
05:41:34,799 --> 05:41:39,919
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So Carl Doll dot substack dot com

4703
05:41:40,119 --> 05:41:44,840
is my main headquarters, even though I post in various areas.

4704
05:41:44,880 --> 05:41:46,919
I'm on I'm on Twitter. You know what I think

4705
05:41:46,959 --> 05:41:50,880
I need to reconnect my Twitter account to my substack

4706
05:41:50,959 --> 05:41:54,200
so people can see that there, because that's for ship posting.

4707
05:41:54,319 --> 05:41:57,360
But the substack is where I do most of my

4708
05:41:57,720 --> 05:42:02,400
my real, my real writing. I'm trying to put articles

4709
05:42:02,479 --> 05:42:06,479
of interest, mostly still focused on the Spanish Civil War. Up.

4710
05:42:07,040 --> 05:42:11,880
I have a link to my little shirt spread store

4711
05:42:12,240 --> 05:42:15,840
from there via an article. I have a nice there's this,

4712
05:42:16,119 --> 05:42:20,520
there's this famous quote that General Francisco Franco repeated several

4713
05:42:20,599 --> 05:42:25,560
times in various forms, but I was I was puzzling

4714
05:42:25,639 --> 05:42:28,520
on how to how to describe it, and it's you've

4715
05:42:28,639 --> 05:42:31,279
seen the meme where it says there will be no communism,

4716
05:42:32,159 --> 05:42:36,040
and the real quote is all I know is wherever

4717
05:42:36,479 --> 05:42:39,200
I am, there will be no communism. So I have

4718
05:42:39,520 --> 05:42:44,599
the original I'm basically made like a fash wave edit

4719
05:42:45,000 --> 05:42:50,400
where he's wearing you know, razor sunglasses or whatever they

4720
05:42:50,479 --> 05:42:56,000
call them, pit vipers, generic non branded, non patent and

4721
05:42:56,599 --> 05:43:04,639
trademark violating images with the original Spanish quote with a nice,

4722
05:43:06,040 --> 05:43:09,400
nice logo there, and it's it's already people are already

4723
05:43:09,400 --> 05:43:11,040
buying it. And I'm like, I got to order some

4724
05:43:11,200 --> 05:43:14,680
for myself, so and my sons. So yeah, it's pretty spicy,

4725
05:43:14,759 --> 05:43:17,799
but yeah, that's the main thing. Author of Faction with

4726
05:43:17,919 --> 05:43:22,840
the Crusaders. I have a sample the first chapter of

4727
05:43:22,919 --> 05:43:26,599
the book pinned on my substack. Also you can get

4728
05:43:26,639 --> 05:43:30,560
it on Amazon. It's as you as you can tell.

4729
05:43:30,680 --> 05:43:35,040
The the autism required to write a nearly five hundred

4730
05:43:35,240 --> 05:43:40,000
page novel, a large, you know, pretty big, pretty big book,

4731
05:43:40,799 --> 05:43:43,720
with to the level of detail required to be accurate

4732
05:43:43,880 --> 05:43:48,680
historically and such two years of research. Last Crusade, the

4733
05:43:48,759 --> 05:43:52,240
way I always put it, is what unlocked the door

4734
05:43:52,400 --> 05:43:57,000
for me for having a personal connection to the Spanish

4735
05:43:57,000 --> 05:44:01,439
Civil War so that I could write about characters was

4736
05:44:01,560 --> 05:44:05,520
Peter Kemp's mind were of trouble. But the Last Crusade

4737
05:44:05,599 --> 05:44:09,400
by Warren Carroll is where I took the most like

4738
05:44:09,599 --> 05:44:13,240
spiritual inspiration from it and told as many of those

4739
05:44:13,360 --> 05:44:16,159
kinds of stories as I could, because to me, that's

4740
05:44:16,200 --> 05:44:19,560
where everything is. It's you know, you go in as

4741
05:44:19,599 --> 05:44:23,599
a naive adventurer. You become a crusader when you see

4742
05:44:23,840 --> 05:44:27,720
the crusaders around you and what motivates them. So the

4743
05:44:28,119 --> 05:44:31,319
Sacred Heart of Jesus patches on mine and my son's

4744
05:44:31,360 --> 05:44:34,200
plate carriers for a good reason, because that's what the

4745
05:44:35,159 --> 05:44:40,799
recatas would do their mothers and sweethearts and grandmothers and

4746
05:44:41,000 --> 05:44:45,959
sisters would embroider them on their shirts that they bought

4747
05:44:46,000 --> 05:44:53,000
themselves to prepare for war and marched into almost certain

4748
05:44:53,080 --> 05:44:57,680
death because of this spirit which animated them. So I

4749
05:44:57,720 --> 05:45:01,439
would just urge everyone here. You know, like Pete said,

4750
05:45:01,959 --> 05:45:07,880
the Spanish Civil War is the real story of the

4751
05:45:07,959 --> 05:45:13,520
twentieth century. It is also, you know, elevator pitch wise,

4752
05:45:14,240 --> 05:45:20,799
probably the most analogous situation to what we face, at

4753
05:45:20,880 --> 05:45:22,720
least in a way that you can wrap your head around.

4754
05:45:23,119 --> 05:45:27,959
Yugoslavia times Rwanda is very scary, but honestly, I feel

4755
05:45:28,040 --> 05:45:31,680
like that's the Spanish Civil War is where it's at.

4756
05:45:31,759 --> 05:45:33,919
And like Pete said, the good guys won. So you

4757
05:45:34,040 --> 05:45:38,799
have to understand that to understand the twentieth century, and

4758
05:45:39,319 --> 05:45:42,799
you know all the lies that we're told about that,

4759
05:45:43,159 --> 05:45:47,240
or the misunderstandings or the spins, and you know, really

4760
05:45:47,279 --> 05:45:49,720
what's going on as people are awakening to these things.

4761
05:45:50,080 --> 05:45:52,959
You need to know these real histories and you need

4762
05:45:53,040 --> 05:45:56,479
to realize what we're facing. And then my final point

4763
05:45:56,599 --> 05:45:59,119
in my elevator pitch for why the Spanish Civil War

4764
05:45:59,319 --> 05:46:03,200
is important is because it tells you about how the

4765
05:46:03,319 --> 05:46:08,799
right actually won. It was no individual, monolithic thing that

4766
05:46:08,959 --> 05:46:16,240
did it. It was the fallen Gay. They played an

4767
05:46:16,279 --> 05:46:18,799
important part, but not nearly as big a one as

4768
05:46:18,799 --> 05:46:24,400
they're credited with. The Carlist Recortees played a massive.

4769
05:46:24,799 --> 05:46:25,279
Speaker 1: Role in it.

4770
05:46:25,439 --> 05:46:29,680
Speaker 2: And that was literally a civilian militia spun up in

4771
05:46:29,840 --> 05:46:33,000
just a couple of years, and then of course the

4772
05:46:33,319 --> 05:46:39,080
the military elements in their uprising, you know. And what

4773
05:46:39,240 --> 05:46:41,720
it was was it was a coalition of people who

4774
05:46:43,439 --> 05:46:50,040
really focused on what connected them more than what differentiated

4775
05:46:50,119 --> 05:46:52,479
them from other people, in terms of what they wanted

4776
05:46:52,560 --> 05:46:56,080
for a future for their country and their people. And

4777
05:46:56,520 --> 05:46:58,880
it's really important that we think that way instead of

4778
05:46:58,959 --> 05:47:02,200
spurging out. It's important to be accurate. It's important to

4779
05:47:02,319 --> 05:47:05,279
have correct information and to make sure that people have

4780
05:47:05,520 --> 05:47:09,319
that correct information. But there's a certain time when you

4781
05:47:09,959 --> 05:47:14,520
have to let bygones, be got bygones and focus on

4782
05:47:15,240 --> 05:47:19,959
what you have in common and unite. So thanks a lot, Pete,

4783
05:47:20,200 --> 05:47:25,159
Thanks for what you're doing here. It's it's a great series. Folks,

4784
05:47:25,599 --> 05:47:28,799
listen to all of them, share it with friends. It's

4785
05:47:29,639 --> 05:47:33,439
the way Pete is doing this is very accessible for people,

4786
05:47:34,680 --> 05:47:37,479
and I think it's really important, so thanks for what

4787
05:47:37,560 --> 05:47:38,520
you're doing Pete.

4788
05:47:39,279 --> 05:47:42,159
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Carl, thank you, and yeah till the

4789
05:47:42,240 --> 05:47:42,599
next time.

4790
05:47:43,119 --> 05:47:43,560
Speaker 2: Thanks man,