Speaker 1: Most of us, when looking at a character like Buffalo
Speaker 1: Bill from the movie The Silence of the Lambs, probably
Speaker 1: find him more than a bit creepy. But we also
Speaker 1: go to sleep at night thinking there's no one in
Speaker 1: the real world who do the horrible and terrible things
Speaker 1: that Buffalo Bill did. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and
Speaker 1: we're about to prove yet again that sometimes life is
Speaker 1: more brutal and horrible than fiction.
Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, I'm Ben, and this is Wicked and Grim,
Speaker 2: a true crime podcast. Good morning. The following podcasts.
Speaker 1: Semi audience listener, just question, is that much? Are you
Speaker 1: really just drinking water?
Speaker 2: I am, But I have a straw, so it's okay.
Speaker 1: So that makes it better. Hey, it's like the equivalent
Speaker 1: of beer.
Speaker 2: Well not quite, but it makes me feel a little
Speaker 2: bit happier because there's a straw.
Speaker 1: You love your straws.
Speaker 2: I do. Straws are dope. Although I broke this one,
Speaker 2: I think, oh seriously, I was chewing it slightly earlier.
Speaker 1: Cracked stress chewing.
Speaker 2: Not really. It was more like there's a straw, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna bite it, and I heard a crack. Oh it's
Speaker 2: as simple as that.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, welcome. This is literally our last episode before
Speaker 1: we're celebrating our second annivers.
Speaker 2: A ring two years Wick and and Grim podcasting. That
Speaker 2: is wild.
Speaker 1: You would have thought like I honestly don't think I
Speaker 1: would have thought that. Well, No, I would have. I
Speaker 1: don't think I would have thought we would be here
Speaker 1: by now, though.
Speaker 2: Like you thought, we would have given.
Speaker 1: Up possibly bucket we're done. Yeah, but no, this has
Speaker 1: been like fun and enjoyable, and the connections that we've
Speaker 1: made and the people that we have in our corner
Speaker 1: is unbelievable. It is.
Speaker 2: We've turned into a pretty successful indie podcast as far. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm concerned so and it's been a blast this whole time.
Speaker 2: And I still feel like we still don't know what
Speaker 2: the fuck we're doing.
Speaker 1: No, I feel like, yes, sometimes I'm even like I
Speaker 1: know less what I'm doing.
Speaker 2: You know less, just question everything everything.
Speaker 1: I do, actually question more things.
Speaker 2: So well, I'm glad we're still rolling. And thanks to
Speaker 2: you guys for the support this entire time.
Speaker 1: And you guys are awesome.
Speaker 2: Speaking of thanking people, we have patrons to thank this week.
Speaker 2: Signed up so I have not pre prepared reading the
Speaker 2: names this time. I just realized Oh, so I'm gonna
Speaker 2: fly by the seat of my pants and who luck
Speaker 2: that I do get names correct?
Speaker 1: You got this?
Speaker 2: Okay? Fingers crossed. This week we had Emily Mueller sign up, nice,
Speaker 2: Eric Ordway, Christina Branson, Kelseina Cole, and Jenna Neutral right on.
Speaker 2: I really hope I got your names right.
Speaker 1: It sounded like you fucking knew them right, like that
Speaker 1: they were all your friends.
Speaker 2: The key is confidence there you go. Key is just
Speaker 2: fake it till you make it right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Actually I need to learn that sometimes a bit better.
Speaker 2: But yeah, thank you so much for signing up. Over
Speaker 2: on Patreon, you guys are going to be getting a
Speaker 2: little extra coming in the next week or so, maybe
Speaker 2: because we are doing a Wicked Box giveaway.
Speaker 1: We are for our second anniversary. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it's just kind of coinciding because we've been
Speaker 2: wanting to do it so long.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it kind of all lined up at the same time.
Speaker 1: We're like, this is perfect. It was meant to be.
Speaker 2: It got delayed with stuff being shipped in, but now
Speaker 2: we have it all. It's coming in this week. We're
Speaker 2: going to do one public over on Instagram and facebooks.
Speaker 2: You can go over there and have a chance to
Speaker 2: win with some cool stuff inside this box and then
Speaker 2: one specifically on Patreon.
Speaker 1: So, and then we got some new merch drop in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, to celebrate two years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, are you going to share what it is? Of
Speaker 1: course it's all drawn by Ben and done by Ben.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well we're doing we're taking the one Wicked year
Speaker 2: design revamping that. So it's just going to say, uh,
Speaker 2: we haven't decided just yet. That's the last one we
Speaker 2: got to design. It's either stay Wicked or Wicked and
Speaker 2: Graham or Wicked and Graham. And then we've got one
Speaker 2: that says stay with like thirty thousand y's on it,
Speaker 2: and then at the end it says Wicked Wicked and
Speaker 2: then not Cool Carl.
Speaker 1: Not Cool Carl. I'm humped for that one.
Speaker 2: Actually, finally dropping that one, and finally to go along
Speaker 2: with mister Bones, we have Missus Bones. Yeah, so head
Speaker 2: on over to our red Bubble to check them out.
Speaker 2: Coming tomorrow the.
Speaker 1: Eighth, Yeah, Wednesday, right, yes, February eighth. And just like
Speaker 1: backtracked slightly. So the Not Cool Carl is like we
Speaker 1: had anything two or three episodes in a row or something.
Speaker 1: We're literally like the freaking Douche Canoe was Carl or one.
Speaker 2: I remember it was around Carl Tansler was one of them.
Speaker 2: So it was in those episodes somewhereere we actually talked
Speaker 2: about not cool.
Speaker 1: Carl, Yeah, because there was quite a few Carls that
Speaker 1: are like, yes city. Yeah, so that's where that kind
Speaker 1: of came from. So yeah, yeah, that's exciting. Okay, and
Speaker 1: then really really quickly, we'll post a photo on Instagram.
Speaker 1: But we rescued a peppers.
Speaker 2: We did.
Speaker 1: Her name is Honey, Honey. She is like the sweetest
Speaker 1: fucking thing in the whole world.
Speaker 2: She needed a new home. We went to the SPCA
Speaker 2: and she fit right in at home with Ripley. Ripley
Speaker 2: needed a new friend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we fought. We fostered her for a bit,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it was unbelievable. It was like it was
Speaker 1: meant to be, because yeah, Ripley hasn't been like thriving
Speaker 1: being a solo dog. So yeah, this is gonna be
Speaker 1: good for good for everyone involved. I think everyone's hearts and.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so far, so good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, so we'll post a photo.
Speaker 2: She's really sweet, one hundred percent. Go check it out.
Speaker 2: Links right down below for those social media's, by the way,
Speaker 2: on Instagram, all of it.
Speaker 1: So are you ready to roll?
Speaker 2: I am, what do you got for us?
Speaker 1: Okay? So today we're going across to Poland and back
Speaker 1: to the year of nineteen nine and nine, I mean
Speaker 1: ninety eight. I wanted to say ninety nine so bad,
Speaker 1: but it's actually ninety eight.
Speaker 2: But the button okay, But why did you want to
Speaker 2: say ninety nine?
Speaker 1: I don't know if better in my brain flows better flows?
Speaker 2: Okay. Quick side note here. One of my favorite numbers
Speaker 2: of all time is nineteen ninety seven. Really, not because
Speaker 2: it was a good year or anything. I just remember
Speaker 2: as a kid being in like I think it was
Speaker 2: like fourth grade or something. I don't know, but we
Speaker 2: had to write the date at the top of our
Speaker 2: assignments and stuff. Okay, and I remember when the new
Speaker 2: year came in and it was writing nineteen ninety eight.
Speaker 2: It just looked weird to me. I was like, and
Speaker 2: then I wrote nineteen ninety seven right below it, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, that number just looks satisfying.
Speaker 1: So you want to be stuck in nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2: I just like the look of the number nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 2: There's something there that's just I don't know, appealing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually feel like there's clothing brands that I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about, or maybe it's nineteen seventy seven. I don't know. Anyway,
Speaker 1: the seventy seven is too many.
Speaker 2: Sevens ninety nine is okay because it's in the middle
Speaker 2: and you have the one in the seven on either side, okay,
Speaker 2: and the seven and one are similar, so a balance
Speaker 2: is nice.
Speaker 1: There you go. Now you got in weird fact.
Speaker 2: I like the number in nineteen ninety seven, no specific
Speaker 2: reason other than it's just looks it's satisfying.
Speaker 1: Well, that was why I was like nineteen nine and nine.
Speaker 1: That flows good. Okay. So we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the murder of Katasina Zawata. You ready, I'm ready? Do
Speaker 1: you know about this?
Speaker 2: I a little bit barely, Like I could give you
Speaker 2: an elevator pitch and that's about it, Okay, not even hardly.
Speaker 1: We're going a little deeper than an elevator pitch, I hope.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: So, at the time, Katasina was twenty three years old,
Speaker 1: she was a university student and right at the start
Speaker 1: of her life. But her start had already been a
Speaker 1: bit rough around the edges. Her father died just two
Speaker 1: years before she started university, and his death had a
Speaker 1: huge impact on her. Her friends and classmates described her
Speaker 1: as someone who was nice, but also someone who always
Speaker 1: seems sad and a bit withdrawn. It sucks, I know,
Speaker 1: isn't that just like, oh.
Speaker 2: Those people are usually thinking of other people more than themselves.
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah, she just like has a lot of
Speaker 1: big feelings. Probably m h. Actually, since the death of
Speaker 1: her father, Katasina had been suffering from depression, and it
Speaker 1: was pretty clear that she was feeling the side effects
Speaker 1: of that rippling through the rest of her life as well. Socially,
Speaker 1: she was shutting down and academically she just couldn't seem
Speaker 1: to pick a direction. She was attending university in Krackow,
Speaker 1: but in the short time she'd been there, she'd already
Speaker 1: changed her field of study three times. Honestly, Okay, I
Speaker 1: just like saying something quick here. It is incredibly hard
Speaker 1: to like at a young age because that's in your
Speaker 1: early twenties. It's pretty young, and people are even making
Speaker 1: those decisions in their late teens. To choose what you
Speaker 1: want to do for the rest of your life.
Speaker 2: Oh, one hundred percent, especially like you think of parents
Speaker 2: asking little kids like, oh, you're twelve years old, what
Speaker 2: do you want to do for the next I don't know,
Speaker 2: seventy fucking years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So her changing because I think lots of times
Speaker 1: people they get there and then they're attending some classes.
Speaker 1: Oh it doesn't like feel that right, So I think
Speaker 1: it's totally fine to just change how to kind of explore.
Speaker 2: I have totally respect that.
Speaker 1: So where was I here?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: Did I disuse my spot?
Speaker 2: You did, didn't you?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh yeah. She spent her first semester studying psychology.
Speaker 1: Then she dabbled in history for a little while before
Speaker 1: she found her feet and decided to study religious studies instead. Okay,
Speaker 1: and that was a good first steps towards getting her
Speaker 1: life back on track and settled. But it wasn't the
Speaker 1: only thing that Katasino was doing to try to get
Speaker 1: her life together. She was also in psychiatric treatment for
Speaker 1: her depression.
Speaker 2: Okay, well that's good. Seeking help is a really good thing.
Speaker 1: Absolutely no one should be afraid of seeking help or
Speaker 1: like feel shameful.
Speaker 2: Agreed.
Speaker 1: So she'd been going to a clinic for a while
Speaker 1: and she was sticking with it, just pushing through. What
Speaker 1: the end goal of getting better, right goal, And that
Speaker 1: was what she was doing on November twelfth, nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: or supposed to be doing.
Speaker 2: Oh no, whenever there's a date, some shits about to
Speaker 2: go down.
Speaker 1: Whenever date you dropped the dates, it's going down. We're
Speaker 1: sure she had an appointment at the clinic and the
Speaker 1: plan was to meet her mother there, but unfortunately, Katazina
Speaker 1: never showed up. Her mother waited the clinic, hoping that
Speaker 1: her daughter would show up or at least try to
Speaker 1: get in contact with her right But a few hours
Speaker 1: later it became painfully obvious that she wasn't coming.
Speaker 2: Damn.
Speaker 1: Something about this didn't sit right with Katasina's mother, and
Speaker 1: she went straight to the police station to try to
Speaker 1: file a missing person's report.
Speaker 2: Well that's good, I like. I like that she actually
Speaker 2: went forward with it right away, I know, rather than
Speaker 2: thinking and it's.
Speaker 1: Just making up shit in your head that actually went down.
Speaker 2: It's very natural for everyone to make excuses, being like, oh, no,
Speaker 2: it's probably this, or it's probably that. So I like
Speaker 2: that she actually said, no, something's probably wrong. I should
Speaker 2: go and report this right away.
Speaker 1: And we said, we've mentioned this so many times, but
Speaker 1: especially like in all these cases, a lot of times
Speaker 1: shit does go so too when people don't listen to
Speaker 1: their gout feelings. Right, So that her daughter was an
Speaker 1: adult and she'd only been missing for a few hours,
Speaker 1: the police didn't take Katsina's mother very seriously, and they
Speaker 1: told her that she would have to wait a bit
Speaker 1: longer to file the missing person's report.
Speaker 2: I understand. I mean, it makes sense you can't just
Speaker 2: be running after everything right away. But also in the
Speaker 2: same context, it's like you should probably be listening to
Speaker 2: the person filing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, and I was. I honestly wanted to
Speaker 1: touch on this because we get that there's protocol, right,
Speaker 1: and then a lot of people too that I'll go missing,
Speaker 1: they do end up turning up, right, Yeah, But I
Speaker 1: do feel like there's extenuating circumstances where maybe they do
Speaker 1: need to take it seriously right away. For sure, Katsina
Speaker 1: she was suffering from depression, right.
Speaker 2: But the problem is, how do you differentiate I know,
Speaker 2: those cases from the other ones, right, yeah, because those
Speaker 2: are gonna be like the one percent I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but lots of times too, if it's out of
Speaker 1: character too, like she I thought her and her mom
Speaker 1: were close and she'd never really gone. Singer would have
Speaker 1: always checked in with her mom.
Speaker 2: So I just I don't know that out of character
Speaker 2: is a big one.
Speaker 1: And because especially in like a missing person's case, those
Speaker 1: first few hours are pretty like crucial. Oh yeah, like
Speaker 1: very crucial.
Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't it like the most like the first twenty
Speaker 2: four hours is basically if you don't find him after.
Speaker 1: That, every hour chances just decreased.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a statistical chance that every hour after
Speaker 2: those first twenty four hours is like eventually it's a zero.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So nonetheless, who really knows if anything was lost
Speaker 1: during that time that the police refused the mother's report.
Speaker 1: Things would, however, become a bit clearer on January sixth
Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety nine, only unfortunately for Katasina and her mother,
Speaker 1: it was not the good kind of news.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: A pusher tug boat called the Elk was out on
Speaker 1: the Vistula that day when the captain noticed that something
Speaker 1: was wrong. It sounded like something was jammed or caught
Speaker 1: in the propeller, so he notified the crew and waited
Speaker 1: for it to be cleared. All right, your look on
Speaker 1: your face, this wasn't really anything that would alarm anyone.
Speaker 1: It was all pretty routine. Things like that happened all
Speaker 1: the time, and it was usually only some sort of
Speaker 1: debris like tree branch, which the crew could clear in
Speaker 1: the matter of a few minutes and everyone would be
Speaker 1: on their mosy way. But today would be different. When
Speaker 1: the crew opened the latch to go down to work
Speaker 1: on the propeller, they were hit with a horrible stench.
Speaker 1: Still not really knowing what they were about to get into,
Speaker 1: they started untangling what looked like a large strip of
Speaker 1: rubbery material out from around the propeller, but it wasn't rubber,
Speaker 1: and it didn't take them long to realize what it
Speaker 1: actually was. Once the crew had it free from the propeller,
Speaker 1: a human ear was spotted, and it became all too
Speaker 1: obvious that what they were looking at was a piece
Speaker 1: of human flesh.
Speaker 2: God, can you imagine going to work that day and
Speaker 2: just being like, oh, lotti dootty dot wait, there's a body, well, just.
Speaker 1: Being that shocked that you're like, oh, I gotta go,
Speaker 1: like get these fucking tree branches out from the propeller
Speaker 1: like every other day, and then boom, like you can't
Speaker 1: expect shit, no, like you never know when something's just
Speaker 1: going to go astray.
Speaker 2: Well, how many people do you hear about going for
Speaker 2: a walk in a park and discovering that shit?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Oh, I actually really hope that would never happen
Speaker 1: to me. I would freak, Yeah, I'd freak. So the head, arms,
Speaker 1: and legs were gone, leaving behind what looked like the
Speaker 1: skin of a woman's torso sewn together. Initially, all the
Speaker 1: authorities had to go with was this piece of skin,
Speaker 1: but they were able to collect a DNA sample and
Speaker 1: trace it back to Katasina. Katasina was still a missing person,
Speaker 1: and now with that particular part of her remains recovered,
Speaker 1: it was safe to say she was dead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was coming home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but the question remained how had she died and
Speaker 1: who had done this horrible act to her. A week later,
Speaker 1: and from that same river, her right leg was found,
Speaker 1: and that was all anybody ever found of her. That
Speaker 1: was all that was found left of the body. No head, like,
Speaker 1: just basically this skin thing and her leg. That leg
Speaker 1: did create a few more theories, though The investigators believed
Speaker 1: that Katazina's body had been in the water when it
Speaker 1: had been struck by the Elk's propeller, splitting her body
Speaker 1: into many pieces and leaving a piece of her skin behind.
Speaker 1: But upon or beyond further examination the remains of the
Speaker 1: remains that theory easily went out the window.
Speaker 2: They were able to tell some pre striking propeller.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, if that's.
Speaker 2: A scientific word, pre striking propeller.
Speaker 1: Bumpy stuff. Is that what you said, bumpy?
Speaker 2: I don't know what I said. What did I say?
Speaker 1: I don't even know.
Speaker 2: He was very signed.
Speaker 1: It was very It was like it showed that you
Speaker 1: were very educated on the Yes.
Speaker 2: Very articulate edumacation.
Speaker 1: Yes, showing through it was found. So what was found
Speaker 1: was that her skin was removed from her torso on purpose,
Speaker 1: and her limbs and head had been cut off. So
Speaker 1: this was not shit that the propeller did.
Speaker 2: Okay, so this was literally just skin they pulled from
Speaker 2: the propellers.
Speaker 1: Yes, God, Yes, her skin had been cut and sewn
Speaker 1: back together to make a body suit. It was almost
Speaker 1: like a vest, perhaps meaning that it was more than
Speaker 1: likely that her killer had made this to wear themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so here comes that buffalo bill portion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so treating it and sewing it back together just
Speaker 1: didn't make any sense otherwise, like this fucker.
Speaker 2: Was fucked fucked. Yeah, that's for sure.
Speaker 1: Like I don't even know else to explain that. It
Speaker 1: is so disgusting it is.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm gonna be honest, I might be a little
Speaker 2: bit desensitized to.
Speaker 1: This case because of that movie.
Speaker 2: Because of that movie, because I'm just having images of
Speaker 2: like I'm having cinema images pop in my head.
Speaker 1: Relevan than like you know, yeah, I'm not saying you're terrible,
Speaker 1: but it's like it's terrible that these like terrible movies
Speaker 1: do that to us.
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, no, I agree, yeah, but it's like
Speaker 2: thinking about I can't really think of this as a
Speaker 2: real case almost right.
Speaker 1: Now, really, hey, oh well, there'll be a point where
Speaker 1: I think you can.
Speaker 2: I do hope I can, because I don't want to
Speaker 2: just brush over Katasina. No, but yeah, right now, I
Speaker 2: just I'm picturing Buffalo Bill the whole nine yards.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So Katazina's case quickly turned into a case
Speaker 1: on like any other in Poland, But that also meant
Speaker 1: that the investigators had no idea where to start looking
Speaker 1: for the person who'd done this to her. They interviewed
Speaker 1: suspect after suspect, but it looked like they were all
Speaker 1: out of luck when the most unbelievable thing happened in
Speaker 1: May of nineteen ninety nine, just a few months after
Speaker 1: Katizina's remains were discovered.
Speaker 2: You got to say nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: I know, I actually noted that in my head, but
Speaker 1: I was like, just keep going, just keep reading your notes,
Speaker 1: don't get distracted.
Speaker 2: Sorry.
Speaker 1: So almost the exact same thing happened again. Really, this
Speaker 1: time the victim was a man, and this time the
Speaker 1: authorities already had somebody in custody. And I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is how you're going to pronounce this name,
Speaker 1: but I'm it's like Valdimir, Like I just can't. It's
Speaker 1: spelled exactly the Harry Potter name. So I'm just Voldemort Valdimir.
Speaker 1: It was Valdemart.
Speaker 2: Valdemort isn't Harry Potter.
Speaker 1: Okay, I think this is Valdemir. Then I'm getting their
Speaker 1: names mixed up.
Speaker 2: Yeah you are.
Speaker 1: He's like the evil one though, right, Yeah, he.
Speaker 2: Has no nose, right, that's him.
Speaker 1: So this valdem I think Valdemir w was the son
Speaker 1: of the murder victim, and he killed and scalped his
Speaker 1: own vall. He then pulled the skin off his father's face,
Speaker 1: made a mask and had been seen wearing Holy shit, Yes,
Speaker 1: that is so he does have like evil Harry Potter
Speaker 1: dude vibes.
Speaker 2: No kidding, I'm looking at this though. So he did
Speaker 2: this to his father, his father, and he did this too,
Speaker 2: I mean as of right now. If he did do
Speaker 2: it Katazina, they probably didn't know each other, probably a
Speaker 2: random act, or he saw her and scoped her out
Speaker 2: for something. So I don't see a connection for him
Speaker 2: doing this to just women. I think it's just he's
Speaker 2: just a sick individual and picks targets at random sort
Speaker 2: of thing for who knows what reason. Yeah, it's not
Speaker 2: a sex thing, I don't think, especially if he's doing
Speaker 2: it to his.
Speaker 1: Father, right well, yeah exactly. Oh gosh, yeah, he must
Speaker 1: have just like despised his father.
Speaker 2: Hey yeah, unless it's something that he did do and
Speaker 2: his father figured out, or he just got mad at
Speaker 2: his father and he just like, well I'm going to
Speaker 2: do it to him too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like that is some ra age and a half.
Speaker 1: No shit, that is about as much rage I think
Speaker 1: as someone could have on someone else. So for the investigators.
Speaker 1: All this was too many similarities for the cases not
Speaker 1: to be related, right, Yeah, of course, so Voldemir became
Speaker 1: the main suspect in Katazina's case as well. But incredibly,
Speaker 1: the investigators found no evidence to back that theory up,
Speaker 1: and it turned out that it was just a coincidence.
Speaker 2: What what really?
Speaker 1: Yes? And it is it is just a coincidence? Yes?
Speaker 2: Yes, wow, Okay.
Speaker 1: Within the year, Katazina's case was out of suspects, which
Speaker 1: meant which meant it was essentially dropped. Investigators continued to
Speaker 1: work on the case in their own time, but not
Speaker 1: with the same numbers of resources that had been dedicated
Speaker 1: to it before, and it didn't look like anyone expected
Speaker 1: to make any headway on it. But many years later,
Speaker 1: many many years later, in twenty twelve, oh, they caught
Speaker 1: a break when advances in technology gave new hope and
Speaker 1: new life to the investigation. I fucking love when that happens,
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Honest, so do I. But I'm really curious on what
Speaker 2: sort of advances in technology would be able to dig
Speaker 2: up mangled skin evidence from like ten year, twenty years
Speaker 2: ago or whatever.
Speaker 1: Well no, because yeah, it was like nineteen ninety eight,
Speaker 1: so it's not really that.
Speaker 2: Many years, okay, so it's like fourteen years ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't honestly specifically know. So Katasina's case
Speaker 1: was formally reopened, her remains were actually exhumed, and a
Speaker 1: second autopsy was conducted, all with the hopes of catching
Speaker 1: her killer. So I don't really know the exact technology
Speaker 1: that improved or what happened, but something.
Speaker 2: There must have been some other DNA discovered on it
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean kind of around then and recently too,
Speaker 1: a lot of advances have been made kind of in
Speaker 1: science in that way too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well if you look at the last well
Speaker 2: since we'll say two thousands, since the year two thousand, yeah,
Speaker 2: to now, look how far technology has come. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: only just in like crime scene investigation sort of stuff
Speaker 2: and like DNA analysis, literally just technology all around.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, how fast.
Speaker 2: We can process information is so much more advanced that
Speaker 2: it's like, okay, maybe it would be like let's get
Speaker 2: a DNA test and it's going to take us ten
Speaker 2: months to do this, whereas now it's like, yeah, I'll
Speaker 2: have it done to you this afternoon, yeah, tomorrow. Not
Speaker 2: to say if they are that fast, but we had
Speaker 2: the capability to be that much faster.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Yes, And this time around, the autopsy was able
Speaker 1: to get a better idea of exactly what had happened
Speaker 1: to Katasina before she died, and Noah gave the investigators
Speaker 1: a better idea of who they were looking for. None
Speaker 1: of it painted a pretty picture of her last moments
Speaker 1: on earth. No I do actually find it weird, like
Speaker 1: maybe I should have tried to dig deeper into that.
Speaker 1: That's so much changed in those years, But I know
Speaker 1: in that time a lot of shit did change. So
Speaker 1: investigators described how the murder occurred in their official report,
Speaker 1: and I'll read it. It's not very long. So it
Speaker 1: is known that Katasina was tortured before her death. The
Speaker 1: right limb over the ankle joint had been strapped to
Speaker 1: something until finally, between December seventh and fourteenth of nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty eight, the perpetrator chalked the victim or sorry, choked chalked,
Speaker 1: choked the victim with a chain.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight. Sorry, yeah, okay, you said eighty.
Speaker 1: Eight oh, nineteen ninety eight. Before that, he had given
Speaker 1: her drugs. He also broke her her femur and pelvis
Speaker 1: by punching a barbell and bodybuilding plate into her. Stab wounds,
Speaker 1: chop wounds, and lacerations were all discovered. He probably also
Speaker 1: sexually abused her when she was alive and dead.
Speaker 2: Wow what a piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So now remember too, she went missing on November twelfth,
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, and I'm all fucked up with my dates,
Speaker 1: and they don't believe she was killed until December seventh,
Speaker 1: or between December seventh and fourteenth, Like they're not even sure.
Speaker 1: So that's like a month.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine if she was actually still alive for
Speaker 2: that time and enduring all that. Well, I think she was,
Speaker 2: but like, yeah, that's what I'm saying. If she was,
Speaker 2: can you imagine what she was going through?
Speaker 1: I know, fuck like hell on earth.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Her official cause of death was blood loss. But this
Speaker 1: pot I literally have it here. But this poor woman
Speaker 1: went through absolute hell during the time she was held captive.
Speaker 1: Along with being tortured during the possible month that the
Speaker 1: killer had had her, and the traces of sexual abuse
Speaker 1: both before and after her death, it was highly likely
Speaker 1: that the skin from Catazina's torso had been removed while
Speaker 1: she was still alive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking. If her
Speaker 2: death was blood loss, I was thinking either she was
Speaker 2: probably a skinned alive or be she was being delimbed alive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is almost too much to fathom, Like, that's
Speaker 1: too much.
Speaker 2: That would probably be one of the most excruciating oh
Speaker 2: anyone could ever feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't even imagine. In the following years, people
Speaker 1: from all over the world, including the FBI and UN
Speaker 1: would send experts and consultants in hopes of helping the
Speaker 1: Polish authorities catch the man who'd done this to Katazina.
Speaker 1: By twenty sixteen, everyone was on the lookout for a
Speaker 1: man with sadistic tendencies, with a prior history with abuse
Speaker 1: towards women, and someone trained in martial arts.
Speaker 2: Well, whoa, whoa, whoa.
Speaker 1: I'll explain this is that.
Speaker 2: Because of the barbelle punching.
Speaker 1: Thing, possibly the way in which she had been so
Speaker 1: badly beaten and with such force led investigators to believe
Speaker 1: that the killer was trained in mixed martial arts.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that was literally like on their sheet of
Speaker 1: what they look for. Fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes this person even more disgusting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very disturbing.
Speaker 2: Cool, Okay, generally along with martial arts, there is a
Speaker 2: very big thing about you use this for self defense only.
Speaker 2: There's a big respect factor in it. I mean a
Speaker 2: lot of martial arts comes from like Japan or China,
Speaker 2: right where honor and such is a huge part of it.
Speaker 1: I knew you'd have to speak on this because for
Speaker 1: people that don't know Ben, you was like in karate
Speaker 1: for a long time. Yeah, I think a very long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a national level competitor and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so I feel that one a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so in many ways I knew that you think
Speaker 1: that's very disturbing.
Speaker 2: That's very very disturbing.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So in some ways it was an almost expected profile,
Speaker 1: but when it comes to potential murder suspect, sorry, it
Speaker 1: was an expected profile. But then in other ways, there
Speaker 1: was many things in there that were a bit out
Speaker 1: of the ordinary, but not out of the ordinary enough
Speaker 1: that investigators could use it to really narrow down the
Speaker 1: list of suspects. But it was a profile that would
Speaker 1: come together and make sense a year later.
Speaker 2: A year later, Hey, I feel so.
Speaker 1: Bad with these time gaps, Like the family just must
Speaker 1: be in like freaking agony.
Speaker 2: But the nice thing is is that they're not still
Speaker 2: in a time gap. When a time gap comes to
Speaker 2: an end, that means someone eventually got closure.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, but still they hadn't waited long down time
Speaker 1: for all this.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, I get don't get me wrong, Like
Speaker 2: that's fucking horrendous that they had to go through that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but at least it ended exactly. And I wonder
Speaker 1: if the mom, hopefully a mom was even alive to
Speaker 1: have received that. In twenty seventeen, the investigators received a letter.
Speaker 1: Exactly what was in that letter had been kept a secret,
Speaker 1: but we do know that the letter suggested that the
Speaker 1: authorities take a closer look at one man in particular,
Speaker 1: and this man had actually been a person of interest
Speaker 1: in the initial investigation, but not enough evidence was found
Speaker 1: to convict him, Robert Ynchevsky. By then, Robert was a
Speaker 1: fifty two year old man who loved martial arts and
Speaker 1: was living in Crackow. And Robert had a dark background.
Speaker 1: He'd grown up in a devoutly religious household with an
Speaker 1: abusive father, and the side effects of that had started
Speaker 1: to show when Robert was still quite young. As a child,
Speaker 1: Robert was known to abuse cats and dogs, and that
Speaker 1: abuse had only grown into the years that followed.
Speaker 2: Always starts with the animal, not always, but it seems
Speaker 2: like fucking every other case starts with the animals. I know,
Speaker 2: poor fucking helpless animals.
Speaker 1: I just hate that. At one point, Robert had been
Speaker 1: working at the Krakow Institute of Zoology, that was until
Speaker 1: he was fired. Robert had been looking after the rabbits
Speaker 1: in the institute that day, but by the time he
Speaker 1: went to hand over his shift to the next person,
Speaker 1: all the rabbits were dead.
Speaker 2: All of them, every single one.
Speaker 1: Yep. Robert claimed that he had no idea what happened,
Speaker 1: and the institute immediately fired his ass. Wow, okay, could
Speaker 1: you like, what the fuck?
Speaker 2: Hey, It's like being like, oh, I'm going into my
Speaker 2: shift to flip some burgers today and after your shift
Speaker 2: you're just walking out of the restaurant as it burns
Speaker 2: to the ground. Yeah. I don't know what happened, very.
Speaker 1: Much like he had one job of probably keeping the
Speaker 1: rabbits alive and they all died.
Speaker 2: Yeah wow, good job, Robert.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So now for the next piece of information. And
Speaker 1: there are mixed reports here, so some say while at
Speaker 1: the institute, of zoology, Robert could observe and learned how
Speaker 1: to peel away mammal's skin or the process of preparing
Speaker 1: animal skins. And some say that previously to the zoo,
Speaker 1: he had apparently worked in a dissecting lab where he
Speaker 1: dealt with human corpses. So I don't know, take your pick,
Speaker 1: I suppose, but either way it gave him the skill
Speaker 1: to create a human body suit, as he did to Katasina.
Speaker 2: Yeah, either of those sounds like it would be a
Speaker 2: a background story for an evil villain in a comic book.
Speaker 1: Oh, actually, one hundred percent. Yeah, one hundred percent. So
Speaker 1: Robert also had a history of harassing women, spying on
Speaker 1: his neighbors, and was known to war to wear women's clothing.
Speaker 2: Oh so, not only was he an absolute douche Canoe,
Speaker 2: he was an all around douche Canoe, got it?
Speaker 1: Got it? Yeah, for the harassing women and spying on
Speaker 1: the neighbor's part, not for wearing women's clothing.
Speaker 2: I mean, you could wear women's clothing if you want.
Speaker 2: He just sounds like an absolute douche.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, all of the above is.
Speaker 2: Absolute douche who happens to wear women's clothing. Yeah, there's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with you wear whatever you want. I don't
Speaker 2: give a shit. He's just a douche who does that thing.
Speaker 1: And the women's clothing is only in there because like
Speaker 1: that could kind of describe why he would want this
Speaker 1: like women's body suit.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, that's exactly how it played out for Buffalo Bill.
Speaker 1: You're still on the Buffalo, Well, yeah.
Speaker 2: That is literally the plot line of silence and lambs. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Buffalo Bill was transgender. He was a male and he
Speaker 2: felt like he should be a woman. So the reason
Speaker 2: why he went out and skinned women was so he
Speaker 2: could make a skin suit for him to wear. He
Speaker 2: could feel like he was in the skin. He felt
Speaker 2: like he should be in.
Speaker 1: Right, And I do think that one of the reports
Speaker 1: I read said that Robert was bisexual, so and I
Speaker 1: think I forgot to put that in here. So after
Speaker 1: the letter, investigators put eyes on Robert while they waited
Speaker 1: to collect more and more evidence against him, right, and
Speaker 1: what they discovered was pretty fucked up and would seal
Speaker 1: his fate.
Speaker 2: There we go.
Speaker 1: There was one place that Robert, Robert would routinely visit.
Speaker 1: Do you have any guesses? I think you should be
Speaker 1: able to guess.
Speaker 2: This probably the university where she was studying.
Speaker 1: Her grave?
Speaker 2: Her grave, her grave? How the fuck was I going
Speaker 2: to guess that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought you might.
Speaker 2: That's way out of left field.
Speaker 1: She would routinely go and visit her grave site.
Speaker 2: Really whoa? That is fucked up on.
Speaker 1: Another really messed up? Yeah, really mess Wow.
Speaker 2: I wonder why he would be visiting her grave.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't don't know. He was probably like obsessed
Speaker 1: with her, right, maybe I don't know.
Speaker 2: But in which way was he obsessed with her? Was
Speaker 2: he obsessed in mourning what he did to her?
Speaker 1: Oh that could be Actually.
Speaker 2: Was he like sorry for his actions? Was he obsessed
Speaker 2: with her as a person and wished he didn't do that?
Speaker 2: Was he obsessed with the power that he held over
Speaker 2: her now even in life and death, being like, yeah,
Speaker 2: no one fucking knows, I'm the one here standing over
Speaker 2: your grave and still no one knows, Like.
Speaker 1: Why I know, I don't think anyone really knows? That
Speaker 1: is fuck and well I'll touch on that and again
Speaker 1: in a secon in a sec fuck. So, after realizing that,
Speaker 1: the authorities moved in on Robert and he was arrested
Speaker 1: on October fourth of twenty seventeen. They also discovered a
Speaker 1: few more things in his apartment. They found blood in
Speaker 1: his bathroom, and it was never really said if it
Speaker 1: was like Katerina's blood, but I think you can probably
Speaker 1: assume that it was. And they also found his diary,
Speaker 1: where he'd written a detailed account of how he'd murdered her.
Speaker 2: Of course he fucking did.
Speaker 1: Yep. So Robert was charged with aggorated murder with particular cruelty.
Speaker 1: His entire defense hinged on him saying that he didn't
Speaker 1: know Katerina Katerina, yeah, and had nothing to do with
Speaker 1: her death, Like he didn't fucking know her, but yet
Speaker 1: he's like visiting her grave on a routine basis, which
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 2: Kata Zina, isn't it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think Katazine. Yeah, I'm saying her
Speaker 1: name wrong all of a sudden.
Speaker 2: Sorry, that's okay, it's sometimes it's it's difficult when you
Speaker 2: start talking about another name from another language.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so that doesn't make any sense. No, he
Speaker 1: doesn't know this person, but yet he's like visiting their grave.
Speaker 2: And it's in his diary.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And there's blood in his bathroom.
Speaker 2: Yeah again walking away from your shift at work and
Speaker 2: at the building is burning down, being like that's what happened.
Speaker 1: Such a good comparison there, Oh my gosh. So agencies
Speaker 1: and institutions all over the world, not just in Poland,
Speaker 1: were eager to see what would happen with this case,
Speaker 1: and that tipped the scales. When it did eventually go
Speaker 1: to court in twenty nineteen, an order was issue that
Speaker 1: made the trial closed to the public, meaning that a
Speaker 1: lot of the information and evidence that the prosecution had
Speaker 1: against Robert had remained a mystery, including the actual outcome
Speaker 1: of the case.
Speaker 2: Oh even the outcome.
Speaker 1: Yes, So what we do know is that the case
Speaker 1: had gone to court and Robert remains in custody. From that,
Speaker 1: we can say that he was at least found guilty
Speaker 1: of something, presumingly in relation to Katazina, but we can't
Speaker 1: say for sure or for how long he's expected to
Speaker 1: be in prison for Robert had made several complaints of
Speaker 1: abuse from the guards, but investigators, perhaps unsurprisingly, couldn't find
Speaker 1: anything to back up his claims. For the rest of us,
Speaker 1: who weren't the ones who were allowed in the court room,
Speaker 1: it looks like we'll have to wait until Robert is released,
Speaker 1: if ever, to find out exactly what he was found
Speaker 1: guilty of and if he really did torture, rape, and
Speaker 1: kill Katasina. That's also counting on Robert actually admitting to
Speaker 1: his crimes if he's released, or if he's going to
Speaker 1: continue to claim that he has no idea who she
Speaker 1: was even after he visited her grave on routine basis.
Speaker 1: To date, the case is considered one of the most
Speaker 1: disturbing murders in Polish history.
Speaker 2: Wow, that is very different that the court did not
Speaker 2: issue any details even after deliberation.
Speaker 1: And because he's an adult, right, that almost seems like
Speaker 1: it was like an adolescent adolescence. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Interesting. I mean, I actually honestly don't mind the idea
Speaker 2: of their not being publicized court cases until afterwards, until
Speaker 2: after sentencing and stuff.
Speaker 1: Well, because media can actually, oh it can big time.
Speaker 2: It can definitely. I mean, for example, as much as
Speaker 2: it was entertaining for all of us the whole Johnny
Speaker 2: Depp and Amber Herd case in like he was on
Speaker 2: TV and ever, look how many people had opinions on everything.
Speaker 1: Was that actually that entertaining?
Speaker 2: I mean, it was entertaining for a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, but I mean it was also ridiculous,
Speaker 1: that's all. I mean, if you found it entertaining, that's
Speaker 1: totally fine, but it was also ridiculous.
Speaker 2: Well how above and beyond people were going with it
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Yeah, But I just I don't mind
Speaker 2: that idea on keeping it quiet, not releasing too many details,
Speaker 2: letting the court do its thing, and then after sentencing,
Speaker 2: after finding out what occurred, then releasing things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because is this not going to I mean, maybe
Speaker 1: they're going to release something eventually, but like if he
Speaker 1: just comes out, are they not going to say anything
Speaker 1: and then this day it's just like walk on the streets.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no kidding. I think that there's almost like a
Speaker 2: right for the public to know, you know, yeah, especially
Speaker 2: if he does go walking free. Yeah wow, Okay.
Speaker 1: I know it's a different between mind blowing, but it
Speaker 1: is still like fairly fresh. So I'm I'm almost maybe
Speaker 1: in my brain, I'm like, oh, well, maybe like COVID
Speaker 1: screwed something up and there it's actually not even like
Speaker 1: done yet, Like I don't know, who knows. I don't
Speaker 1: know because this, I mean, he went to court, it
Speaker 1: said in twenty and eighteen, and maybe things didn't finish
Speaker 1: off before COVID hit or something. And I don't know,
Speaker 1: that's just me being like to what's the word, like,
Speaker 1: to overzealous there that it is going to come out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, too hopeful, too hopeful, Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 1: Huh So, yeah, that is the brutal murder Katsina.
Speaker 2: It sounds like he fucking did it.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean it does sound incredibly like he
Speaker 1: did it.
Speaker 2: He wrote detailed accounts in his diary yeah, about committing it.
Speaker 1: And that blood. I mean, it never even released if
Speaker 1: that blood was hers in the bathroom, but I mean
Speaker 1: I'm just assuming.
Speaker 2: Even still if there were, there would be no noteworthy
Speaker 2: reason to note if it was his own blood. So
Speaker 2: it's clearly going to be someone else's blood. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: I mean, how many times if you like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: picked a hangnail and like, oh shit, and you're bleeding
Speaker 2: in your own bathroom or stubbed your toe or who
Speaker 2: knows what.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, I was bleeding buckets the other day
Speaker 1: when I was trying to get an am grown tone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, clear, Yeah.
Speaker 1: It was like a scene and a half in there.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Bleeding in bathrooms is not an abnormal thing.
Speaker 1: So but I mean, unless it wasn't like her blood,
Speaker 1: unless it was someone else's, like he knows. Maybe, but
Speaker 1: it could have even found more things about him being
Speaker 1: even worse or doing this to other people.
Speaker 2: Could have linked him to other crimes. Yeah, he could
Speaker 2: be a serial killer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, because that what he did was pretty
Speaker 1: messed up, and it doesn't seem like that would be
Speaker 1: the first case, the first thing that you would do.
Speaker 2: To I don't think so. Usually you start off pretty small,
Speaker 2: and he's skinned someone and turned them into a vest.
Speaker 1: Skin them pretty much alive yet, So that's.
Speaker 2: Pretty extreme to start right out from the get go.
Speaker 1: I feel like he has to be a serial I.
Speaker 2: Would assume so, But I mean you can't just assume
Speaker 2: those things. You'd have to find evidence, right I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Wow, that's.
Speaker 2: Wild and it's crazy that there just happened to be
Speaker 2: someone else who skinned their father's face.
Speaker 1: Yeah, at this pretty much the same time.
Speaker 2: And dumped the body in a similar fashion.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they did dump the body. I
Speaker 1: don't think I said they dumped the body.
Speaker 2: Didn't you say that they got caught up in a
Speaker 2: boat propeller the same way or something?
Speaker 1: No, I don't think so. I think you just made
Speaker 1: that up.
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought you did say it.
Speaker 1: Oh. I think it might have been for that case. Oh.
Speaker 1: I didn't look into it too much, but I think
Speaker 1: it might have been like the grandfather or something that
Speaker 1: had turned him in. And I don't know if this
Speaker 1: is legit, Like, I don't know, but there was some
Speaker 1: I didn't research this enough, but there was one report
Speaker 1: that basically said that he wore this mask like in
Speaker 1: front of his grandfather, pretending to be like the dad
Speaker 1: the fuck, which is real fucked no shit. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: we're also hoping that that that Valdemir is also in
Speaker 1: jail for like ever.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because if you can do that to your own dad.
Speaker 2: To your own dad, to your.
Speaker 1: Own grandpa, yeah, I mean his dad might have done
Speaker 1: some ship to him, though we don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that doesn't deserve fucking getting skinned.
Speaker 1: No, it doesn't. But I just mean, like I was saying,
Speaker 1: if you can do that to your dad, what could
Speaker 1: you do to someone else? But then maybe the dad
Speaker 1: actually did bad things and blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe the dad aggravated him to the point that
Speaker 2: he broke doesn't mean it's an excuse to break and
Speaker 2: do those highness things. But yeah, heinous highness.
Speaker 1: Heinous highness is like your highness. Yeah, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: we're we're really winning on this podcast today.
Speaker 2: And I'm only drinking water.
Speaker 1: Both of us are. Okay, maybe alcohol is like our
Speaker 1: special power.
Speaker 2: It's like Popeye in this spinach.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, so like when we're not drinking alcohol, we're
Speaker 1: just like fucking up.
Speaker 2: Clearly. Is there anything we got to talk about before
Speaker 2: we wrap this up? We didn't talk about the Wicked
Speaker 2: Box giveaway, so we did social media sold on. Excuse me,
Speaker 2: there we go social media where you can go check
Speaker 2: it out Facebook and Instagram. There'll be some posts on
Speaker 2: it and an exclusive one as well for patreons. There's
Speaker 2: two available. Patrons have the option to win in both.
Speaker 2: Just just a little heads up on that and what
Speaker 2: else too?
Speaker 1: Yeah, then merch and then we're also going to post
Speaker 1: a photo of our new honey Honey dogo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so check all that stuff out, all those links
Speaker 2: down below. If you feel up to it, you can
Speaker 2: go ahead and rate us as well. I don't know
Speaker 2: if anyone's out there rating us. We got a couple
Speaker 2: of ratings recently and they were super nice, super kind.
Speaker 2: So we really appreciate you guys for that. We read
Speaker 2: every single one.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we absolutely do.
Speaker 2: So thank you so much for that support. That's incredible
Speaker 2: and makes.
Speaker 1: Our day, it really does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good job on that episode, babe.
Speaker 1: Thank you. It was actually at first it's kind of like, oh,
Speaker 1: do I want to research this one? Like sometimes it's
Speaker 1: just like it gets to your head and your I'd
Speaker 1: rather like watch a Sunshine and Rainbow show than like
Speaker 1: research this. But it was actually very It was very interesting,
Speaker 1: and I kind of did a little bit of a
Speaker 1: deeper dive in some spots, and I mean, it's horrible
Speaker 1: what happened to her, just so unnecessary. But yeah, some
Speaker 1: of the things in here are very different and like wow, yeah.
Speaker 2: And thankfully I was actually able to separate the whole
Speaker 2: Buffalo build thing in my head. Initially, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm just just literally fucking picturing this Hollywood movie sitting
Speaker 2: down watching TV. But no, it was very not very
Speaker 2: long after that where I was like, Okay, this is
Speaker 2: this is a real case. It is a real person,
Speaker 2: a real situation, so and.
Speaker 1: Just think about, Okay, this is a tay I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry in events, but she is leaving her mom behind,
Speaker 1: and her mom had already lost the dad. Oh so
Speaker 1: the poor mom is like another real victim in this fuck. Anyway,
Speaker 1: that that, I do apologize.
Speaker 2: You just sprink a little bit of salt into that wound.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, not the good.
Speaker 2: Well, on that note, thank you, we appreciate it for
Speaker 2: sprinkling the assault on your wounds. I got another case
Speaker 2: coming up next time. It's a little less sad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we asked our patrons to give us a case. It's
Speaker 2: a little more light hearted. I mean it is still
Speaker 2: crime based. So yeah, a little more less sad case
Speaker 2: coming next week.
Speaker 1: Here we go, so we have something to look forward to.
Speaker 1: We have our second anniversary you look forward to, and
Speaker 1: a not so sad case. Yes we're winning.
Speaker 2: Yes it'll be a good one all right.
Speaker 1: Well, until then, stay wicked.