WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.000 You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more 2 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.679 amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. 3 00:00:12.839 --> 00:00:16.480 Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, Episode number four forty eight. 4 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:19.559 Your dream doesn't have an expiration date, Take a deep 5 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:25.640 breath and try again. Kat You Whitten broadcasting from a dark, windowless. 6 00:00:25.120 --> 00:00:27.559 Room in Hollywood when we really should be working on 7 00:00:27.559 --> 00:00:31.960 that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing you 8 00:00:32.079 --> 00:00:34.719 the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how 9 00:00:34.719 --> 00:00:36.600 to make your screenplay bulletproof. 10 00:00:36.920 --> 00:00:42.119 And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another 11 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:44.039 episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. 12 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:45.960 I am your humble host Alex Ferrari. 13 00:00:46.479 --> 00:00:46.679 Now. 14 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:50.719 Today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof Script Coverage. 15 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:51.119 Now. 16 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:56.119 Unlike other script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses 17 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:59.159 on the kind of project you are in the goals 18 00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:01.560 of the project you are, so we actually break it 19 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:05.120 down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market, and 20 00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:07.879 studio film. There's no reason to get coverage from a 21 00:01:07.920 --> 00:01:10.560 reader that's used to reading tempole movies when your movie 22 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:13.239 is gonna be done for one hundred thousand dollars and 23 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:16.040 we wanted to focus on that At Bulletproof Script Coverage, 24 00:01:16.280 --> 00:01:21.760 our readers have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, w MEE, NBC, HBO, Disney, 25 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:25.599 Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more. 26 00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:29.120 So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered 27 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:34.560 by professional readers, head on over to covermiscreenplay dot Com. 28 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.159 Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis. 29 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.879 My next guest is actually a forty five time award 30 00:01:42.959 --> 00:01:46.120 winning screenwriter and he's the founder of the popular Facebook 31 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.400 group Screenwriters Who Could Actually write. We're gonna talk about 32 00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.120 a lot of this stuff, including templates, and we're gonna 33 00:01:52.120 --> 00:01:54.560 talk about his process of writing. We're gonna talk about 34 00:01:54.719 --> 00:01:57.239 Save the Cat and all that other good stuff. What 35 00:01:57.280 --> 00:01:59.120 does he think about all of it? Well, why don't 36 00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.439 we all give it a listen with my guest Mike Bierman. Hey, Mike, 37 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:04.879 thanks off for coming on the podcast. 38 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.159 Oh my pleasure. Thanks for having me. 39 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:08.639 Oh it's great to have you. 40 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:08.879 Mike. 41 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:10.759 You know, you're somebody that's been on my radar for 42 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.439 a while. You're you're the host of the Screenwriters Who 43 00:02:13.439 --> 00:02:16.719 Can Actually write. Facebook group you're a forty five time 44 00:02:16.759 --> 00:02:20.240 award winning screenwriter, so you know, obviously you're somebody that 45 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.639 I've wanted to talk to, and you know, just to 46 00:02:22.639 --> 00:02:24.560 get started, Mike, I wanted to ask you. You're a 47 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.439 trial attorney, you know by day, and I wanted to 48 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:30.000 ask you, when did you get bit by the screenwriting bug. 49 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:32.159 I'm actually not. 50 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:36.240 I don't. I hardly ever practice anymore because between managing 51 00:02:36.319 --> 00:02:40.280 my daughter and doing the group actually takes an enormous 52 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.199 amount of time. Given the number of posts I do, 53 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:46.360 which you've seen, I'm sure you can understand that I 54 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:51.599 rarely practice law anymore. I'm licensed, I can practice, you know, 55 00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.000 do all the things I used to do. I just 56 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:57.680 don't do it anymore because what happens is I end 57 00:02:57.759 --> 00:02:59.719 up with a bunch of court dates that I can't 58 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:03.400 contryle scheduled out at infinitum, you know, out into the future, 59 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:09.039 and cases can drag on for years. So rather than 60 00:03:09.039 --> 00:03:11.039 commit to those types of things, I'm doing something else. 61 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:15.159 I try to avoid trial work, although I do still 62 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.199 practice some entertainment law behind the scenes, including recently I've 63 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:22.520 done some of that, but generally I don't practice that anymore. 64 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:27.759 And the way I got started in screenwriting is my daughter, 65 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:32.719 Erica Bierman. She's in Hunger Games, Catching Fire, Hunger Games, 66 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:35.759 Mocking J one. Her scene was cut from Mocking J 67 00:03:35.879 --> 00:03:37.719 two it revealed too much too early, But she was 68 00:03:37.759 --> 00:03:42.560 also in Dumb and Dumber two. She was when she started. 69 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:45.919 She was getting auditions, even very high level stuff. And 70 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:47.680 I'd read the scripts and I'd say, Wow, you know, 71 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:49.680 I just don't think this is written very well. 72 00:03:49.719 --> 00:03:51.759 I think I can do better. And so. 73 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:56.879 I bought The Screenwriter's Bible by David Trotier, which is 74 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:59.520 one of three or four books that I recommend everybody 75 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.280 should have. I skimmed through it, I didn't read it. 76 00:04:03.439 --> 00:04:08.039 Wrote a nineteen page short script submitted to Page Awards, 77 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:12.800 which is top three contests in the world, and took 78 00:04:12.800 --> 00:04:16.399 top twenty five scripts out of something like seven thousand scripts. 79 00:04:16.480 --> 00:04:21.319 So just self taught and started off with a bang. 80 00:04:22.399 --> 00:04:24.480 So the first screenwriting book that you ever bought was 81 00:04:24.519 --> 00:04:27.120 actually David Tardier's book. Is that was that correct? 82 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:29.839 Yes? And it's a great book. 83 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.040 It's a really good overview to. 84 00:04:33.600 --> 00:04:38.560 Screenwriting. There are other books that I like for different purposes, 85 00:04:38.600 --> 00:04:41.120 but that's a great first book. It's hard to imagine 86 00:04:41.519 --> 00:04:44.639 a better first book to start with, and Dave Trider 87 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:49.480 is actually a member of the group, so I highly 88 00:04:49.519 --> 00:04:52.720 recommend that book. And while we're on books, I also 89 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:59.079 highly recommend Linda Aronson's The Twenty first Century Screenplay, which 90 00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:05.759 is all about different structures non three acts, all types 91 00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:11.720 of different jumping time structures and very complex structures, and. 92 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:12.920 It's a great book piece. 93 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:16.680 You can actually figure out what structure would best suit 94 00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:19.079 your story idea. If you know what you're doing when 95 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:22.800 you start writing, you can custom pick a structure that 96 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:27.480 would be the best skeleton to flesh out for your story. 97 00:05:28.000 --> 00:05:34.079 So that's that's an incredible book, very very complicated. She's 98 00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:37.879 a very high level writer, she's from Oxford University. A 99 00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:42.839 very meaty book and it's one you can spend a 100 00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:48.920 lot of time with for formatting. I like Your Cut. 101 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:52.800 Two is Showing by kJ Alex, which is a pen name. 102 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:56.360 I know people who know who that is. I haven't 103 00:05:56.360 --> 00:06:02.040 bothered to ask, but that's the best book for formatting. 104 00:06:02.120 --> 00:06:05.759 It goes into the most depth any given situation. There 105 00:06:05.759 --> 00:06:10.199 are typically three to five professional acceptable ways you can 106 00:06:10.279 --> 00:06:13.800 choose from him to do it, and that is an 107 00:06:13.959 --> 00:06:20.879 essential book for screenwriters. Rick Toscan also Richard Toskin also 108 00:06:22.079 --> 00:06:25.800 wrote Playwriting Seminars two point zero, which is mostly a 109 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:30.839 playwriting because he was dean of theater at USC for 110 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:35.199 I think about thirty years, a very long time. But 111 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.879 that book also crosses into screenwriting and it's an excellent 112 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:42.600 book that breaks down the analysis of story, whether it's 113 00:06:42.879 --> 00:06:46.279 playwriting or screenwriting. And so are Those are four books 114 00:06:46.279 --> 00:06:47.639 that I highly recommend. 115 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:51.040 It's funny, Mike, because the first book I ever read 116 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.560 about screenwriting was also David Chardier's book about formatting. I 117 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.839 went into a borders and remember them when they were 118 00:06:57.879 --> 00:06:59.399 still around, but I wentn't. 119 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:01.639 I was sad when they went away. 120 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:04.319 Yeah, because now all that's left is Barnes and Nobles 121 00:07:04.360 --> 00:07:06.839 and maybe a few independent stores here and there. But 122 00:07:07.519 --> 00:07:09.279 you know, it's sad to see that that part of 123 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:09.519 it go. 124 00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:12.560 You know. Yeah, the brick and mortar bookstores are deaf. 125 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:15.639 They're they're really enjoyable because you can you can browse 126 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.879 and there's a certain atmosphere and you can you can 127 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:20.720 kill a few hours and find things you have no 128 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:22.319 idea exist. 129 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:23.160 The end of the internet. 130 00:07:23.319 --> 00:07:27.560 Internet squad, but there's a certain allure to a brick 131 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:30.120 and mortar bookstore, and hopefully those will come back. I 132 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.560 should have mentioned also that Rick Toscan that I just 133 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:38.199 spoke of, who I think recently got a Lifetime Achievment 134 00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:40.439 award from the I guess National Damone of the Arts. 135 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:43.959 He's actually in the screenwriting group as well, So we 136 00:07:44.000 --> 00:07:47.879 have some really high end gurus in there, lots of pros. 137 00:07:49.000 --> 00:07:51.319 Well over one hundred produced films, films you've heard of 138 00:07:52.160 --> 00:07:54.680 written by members of the group. So I thought i'd. 139 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:57.759 Mentioned that, Yeah, the there are some you know, members 140 00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:59.959 of the group that i've you know, I've seen their 141 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:02.920 hosts about, you know, different things that they've they've written 142 00:08:02.959 --> 00:08:05.600 that have you know, been produced. For instance, I know 143 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.240 somebody just wrote a the the the screenplay for the 144 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:12.040 latest Steven Sagal movie, and I remember he was in 145 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:13.879 the group and I was talking to him briefly. I 146 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:16.120 think that's is that Charles or Chuck I think his. 147 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.800 Name is Chuck Meyer this End of the End, the 148 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:23.720 End of the Gun, and he has I think he 149 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:29.680 actually has another film coming out on that same deal 150 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:34.240 with the same producer, not starring Steven Stagall. I know 151 00:08:34.320 --> 00:08:37.639 more about it, but I can't. I can't say at 152 00:08:37.639 --> 00:08:40.600 this point got infos under wraps. But what I what 153 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:43.320 I just told you is fine. He does have another 154 00:08:43.759 --> 00:08:47.519 film under that deal, and I think he's either optioning 155 00:08:47.639 --> 00:08:51.120 or about to fell another script imminently. So we have 156 00:08:51.120 --> 00:08:54.440 a lot of activity. I have. I have two feature 157 00:08:54.480 --> 00:08:56.960 films in production myself right now. 158 00:08:57.120 --> 00:08:58.039 So you know, there are a. 159 00:08:58.039 --> 00:09:01.200 Lot of There are a lot of people in the 160 00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.000 group with a lot of things going on, some really 161 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:04.639 great stuff. 162 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:06.960 So that's why the name fits so well. Screwrits who 163 00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:10.039 can actually write it, not just not just talk about 164 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:11.039 theory right. 165 00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:15.679 Right, Well, you know there's a certain haughtiness and snottiness 166 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:17.120 to it. I'm the first to admit it, and I 167 00:09:17.120 --> 00:09:21.440 actually did it on purpose because in reviewing screenwriting groups, 168 00:09:21.480 --> 00:09:25.120 there's one group in particular it's just enormous. I won't 169 00:09:25.159 --> 00:09:27.799 name it, but it has nearly twenty thousand members, and 170 00:09:27.840 --> 00:09:32.639 the type of questions asked in that group are just 171 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:33.639 mind boggling. 172 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:37.279 The lack of. 173 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.320 Thought going into you know, posting a question with your 174 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.120 name on it before you put it up, it's just incredible. 175 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:47.080 I think when I started the group, in my in 176 00:09:47.159 --> 00:09:50.600 my group description, I named it kind of sarcastically. 177 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.879 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 178 00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:00.000 and now back to the show. 179 00:10:01.519 --> 00:10:04.120 Because I was leaving the other group just in disgust 180 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.799 and wanted to try and get people who were, if 181 00:10:07.840 --> 00:10:11.120 not more experienced, a little bit more thoughtful about what 182 00:10:11.159 --> 00:10:13.879 they were writing and what they were saying, a little 183 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:16.360 more educated people in the in the craft. 184 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:19.200 And so I think I posted, you. 185 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:24.559 Know, screenwriting screenwriting forum, hopefully without questions like is water wet? 186 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:26.360 And is it okay to kill my character? 187 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:30.360 So the whole thing kind of started out as a 188 00:10:31.960 --> 00:10:36.320 sarcastic announcement of a departure from kind of like the 189 00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.200 Great Unwashed, with people saying, you know, I'm a screenwriter 190 00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:43.039 because they you know, wrote something on a nap and 191 00:10:43.080 --> 00:10:47.440 wants to try to attract people, even beginners, but people 192 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:49.639 who are more serious about learning the craft, who are 193 00:10:49.639 --> 00:10:52.559 looking at it as a profession rather than as a hobby. 194 00:10:53.799 --> 00:10:56.320 Yeah, it's you know, I've joined other groups in the 195 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.840 past as well, and a lot some of these questions. 196 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:02.600 There was way too many questions about formatting, and for instance, 197 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:04.919 there was actually a group that meant physically here in 198 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:08.919 Philadelphia and these the beginners who would showup, woul always 199 00:11:08.919 --> 00:11:09.919 ask about formatting. 200 00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.840 And when I said the book, buy a book, read 201 00:11:14.879 --> 00:11:17.120 a script, buy a book, it's it's just not that. 202 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:20.679 It's not that tough. And unfortunately, sorry to cut you 203 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:26.759 off there, but you know, unfortunately that is all too 204 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:29.120 common in a lot of screenwriting groups. 205 00:11:29.200 --> 00:11:30.519 And one of the rules. 206 00:11:30.559 --> 00:11:34.000 I have a rules driven group for this purpose to 207 00:11:34.039 --> 00:11:36.519 try and keep the group on focus. And you know, 208 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:38.879 no political posts, and there are a bunch of other 209 00:11:39.480 --> 00:11:43.480 a bunch of other rules, but you know, one of 210 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:45.879 the one of the basic tenets of the group is 211 00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:50.120 search the group itself before you ask a question, because 212 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:52.600 there've been in people been in there for over a year, 213 00:11:53.159 --> 00:11:55.399 answering in depth almost anything you can think of. 214 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:56.480 And also. 215 00:11:58.919 --> 00:12:02.159 Search the internet before you ask a simple formatting question. 216 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:04.879 Buy a book. It's just not that tough. And so 217 00:12:05.440 --> 00:12:08.399 all you're going to do by by asking that type 218 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:11.600 of question in an open form is attract ridicule, show 219 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:13.440 you have no idea what you're doing, and get a 220 00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:16.360 bunch of troll responses, so you actually never get the 221 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.519 right answer because even the people giving you the right 222 00:12:19.519 --> 00:12:23.240 answer will be deluded by all the trolls. So and 223 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:24.440 that's very common as you know. 224 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:27.440 Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. You know, when when people would 225 00:12:27.440 --> 00:12:29.600 ask that in the group, in the physical group, I'd 226 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:32.559 always say to the other person that was running it 227 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:34.799 with me, I'd say, why don't we take these people, 228 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:36.720 put them in their own group and we can go 229 00:12:36.759 --> 00:12:39.039 over like formatting, and then the other half of the group, 230 00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.639 you know, we'll work on actual you know, writing and 231 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.799 get into the structures and you and you know, we 232 00:12:44.879 --> 00:12:46.360 kept going back and forth on this, and I said, 233 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.720 because every meeting, we're sacrificing our strongest for our weakest. 234 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:50.960 And what I mean by that is. 235 00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:52.440 You know, we'll know exactly. 236 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:54.679 Yeah, just just you know, spending all this time on 237 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:57.600 formatting when you either buy fade in or final draft 238 00:12:57.639 --> 00:12:59.840 the writer's duet or whatever, and it takes care of 239 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.080 their all for you or you know, like you said. 240 00:13:01.919 --> 00:13:04.720 No, there's a myth, a little bit of a misconception. 241 00:13:05.240 --> 00:13:08.320 It takes it takes care of the Uh. There's a 242 00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:12.639 difference between formatting and element placement on the page. And 243 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:19.240 this is a common uh misunderstanding or or people misstate this. 244 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:24.120 The screenwriting software. There isn't any screenwriting software that actually 245 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.279 formats per se for you. What the screenwriting software does 246 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:32.120 is it actually puts the elements in place on the 247 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:33.840 page so that you don't have to. 248 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.559 Work in word counting spaces. 249 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:37.960 For example, Uh, you know, if you're going to do 250 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:43.360 a parenthetical under dialogue, the screenwriting software will put the 251 00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:46.200 position the cursor in the right place for you know, 252 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:51.080 a play format or screenwriting format for character or shot 253 00:13:51.320 --> 00:13:57.840 or transition or dialogue, action note, special, whatever it is 254 00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:00.440 that you're trying to do, it'll actually sit up on 255 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:04.039 the page for you with the right number of preceding, 256 00:14:04.159 --> 00:14:09.080 following and intervening carriage space is in intervening carriage returns. 257 00:14:09.320 --> 00:14:12.080 But what it actually doesn't do is format And so 258 00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:15.279 that's one of the things that happens in beginning groups 259 00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:19.759 a lot. And I've seen it. I've seen professional scripts 260 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:25.399 where people actually said when I was script doctoring or 261 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:28.679 rewriting a script, I'd say, hey, you know this is 262 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:29.360 going to be a lot. 263 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.759 More work than you thought. Well, why is that is 264 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:32.399 the story? Dad? 265 00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:36.120 Well, the story's okay, the problem is the formatting. Everything's off. Well, 266 00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:40.360 that's impossible. I used final draft. Well that's a very 267 00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.679 naive comment. That shows how many screenwriting formatting errors they're 268 00:14:44.720 --> 00:14:48.080 going to be because the software doesn't actually format, it 269 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:51.799 just puts things in the right place. The formatting is 270 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:57.879 the understanding of how to how to direct the camera 271 00:14:58.120 --> 00:15:02.120 without using shot direction, for example in the specscript, and 272 00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:08.440 how to properly write down the entire skeleton of a 273 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:12.519 visual film in writing using as few words as possible, 274 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.159 leaving as much white space on the on the page 275 00:15:17.200 --> 00:15:21.720 as possible. And screenwriting software is just the beginning. It's 276 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:24.960 kind of like saying I have a Ferrari, so now 277 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.000 I'm going to be a you know, a champion driver. 278 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.240 There's an enormous difference between having the car and being 279 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:33.039 able to drive it. 280 00:15:33.039 --> 00:15:34.080 Does that kind of make sense? 281 00:15:34.519 --> 00:15:34.720 Yeah? 282 00:15:34.759 --> 00:15:37.960 Yeah, it does well because you actually touched upon what 283 00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:39.960 I was gonna was. Actually I was going to say, 284 00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:42.600 was there were people who had Microsoft Word open and 285 00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:45.039 they were using like four tabs for a character, three 286 00:15:45.080 --> 00:15:48.200 tabs of this. That is yeah, because they would turn 287 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:50.000 in a script and I would look at this and 288 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:51.919 I'd go, it's all off, and I said, what did 289 00:15:51.960 --> 00:15:54.360 you write this in? And and that's why I'm saying, 290 00:15:54.399 --> 00:15:56.440 you know, the screen because they would always say, well, 291 00:15:56.480 --> 00:15:58.080 Dave you know, how do we write this blah blah blah. 292 00:15:58.120 --> 00:15:59.960 I'd say, no, no, you just use you know, drive this soft. 293 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:02.799 That's what I mean about, you know, buying final draft 294 00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:03.840 or whatever and. 295 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:06.120 The positions the elements correct. 296 00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.279 Yeah, that and then the other. 297 00:16:08.159 --> 00:16:11.080 The other thing beginners don't understand is, you know, they'll 298 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.000 go out and pick Helvetica or you know, I don't 299 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:16.080 even know the names of all the fonts, the crazy fonts, 300 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:20.919 swirls and you know, HP Lovecraft fonts, And Okay, that's great, 301 00:16:21.519 --> 00:16:24.519 h if you're if you're writing a free verse poem 302 00:16:24.639 --> 00:16:28.360 or something. But screenwriting is designed for every page to 303 00:16:28.399 --> 00:16:32.720 be one minute of screen time. Now, obviously, depending on action, uh, 304 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:39.879 depending on on dialogue, the level of vocabulary, the the 305 00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:43.279 way the script's written, each page is going to vary. Obviously, 306 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:48.840 you have an enormous amount of action, tightly written action 307 00:16:49.279 --> 00:16:54.600 a page to go conceivably several minutes. But if you 308 00:16:54.600 --> 00:16:57.080 you know, okay that if you write there's a two 309 00:16:57.080 --> 00:16:59.320 mile car chase down the dirt road, that's not gonna 310 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:03.720 happen in one minute, Okay, so it the page length 311 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.799 for filming can vary. But the whole idea is on average, 312 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.119 one page is one minute of film. Now, the only 313 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:14.440 way you can do that, if you think about it, 314 00:17:14.480 --> 00:17:18.440 is if you have a particular font style, which is 315 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:22.119 called a fixed pitch font. And the standard for that 316 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:25.400 is Courier, which is an old news font. It's I 317 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.039 find it fairly ugly font. But they've developed all kinds 318 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:35.200 of variant Courier fonts. There's you know, Courier Final Draft. 319 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:39.559 They've patented their own Courier New Courier Dark, which is 320 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:42.960 one I really like, and there there are a bunch 321 00:17:43.000 --> 00:17:46.880 of other variants of Courier. And and what it comes 322 00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:49.880 down to is, no matter what character you type, whether 323 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.519 it's a special character, dollar sign, hashtag or pound sign, 324 00:17:54.880 --> 00:18:00.880 exclamation point, period, comma, capital, p small acts, it doesn't 325 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.799 matter whatever character you type, they all take up exactly 326 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.559 the same amount of space on the page. And that's 327 00:18:08.599 --> 00:18:11.200 why you have to use a fixed pitch font. And 328 00:18:11.440 --> 00:18:13.440 some people will try to cheat. Let's say you're a 329 00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:17.880 novelist and you're overwriting your script and you want to 330 00:18:17.920 --> 00:18:20.240 get it down from one hundred and sixty five pages 331 00:18:20.279 --> 00:18:23.279 to one hundred and twenty where somebody might actually read it, 332 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:26.480 and you can't figure out any way to do it, 333 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.559 because you're overwriting everything. 334 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:32.000 You're too green to rewrite your script properly. 335 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:33.720 So what you do is you get the bite of 336 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.319 THEA to go in and change the font to some 337 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:39.880 font other than final draft. Go ahead and add a 338 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:43.160 couple of lines one top, one bottom, cheat the margins 339 00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:46.079 left and right, and all of a sudden, your page 340 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.119 count drops down to one hundred and thirty pages and 341 00:18:48.160 --> 00:18:49.400 you're within striking. 342 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:50.000 Distance of your goal. 343 00:18:50.279 --> 00:18:53.400 The problem is, any professional looking at a single page 344 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.319 of your script will immediately throw in the trash. H. 345 00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:00.640 Yeah, and you know again that's something that also seen two, 346 00:19:00.680 --> 00:19:03.119 especially on the cover page, like they'll use like a 347 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:06.240 different font for the title and uh, you know, like 348 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:09.200 like in all those specialized fonts and. 349 00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:13.799 Some artwork, artworks thrown down the margins and yeah, in 350 00:19:13.799 --> 00:19:14.920 in spec scripts. You know. 351 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:16.920 I have actually have a book coming out. 352 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:23.240 Being published by dose Blant Publishing, and it's, uh, it's 353 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:26.400 gonna be called It's it's coming out fairly shortly. I'm 354 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:29.039 essentially finished with the manuscript, the body of it. I'm 355 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.359 working on the uh some of the pictures, clearing copyrights 356 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:34.839 things like that, but the uh, the book's going to 357 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:39.079 be called Secrets of Screenwriting, with the subtitle of uh 358 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:41.799 Collected Essays. I don't want anyone to think that this 359 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:47.160 is like any of the other screenwriting books. It really isn't. 360 00:19:47.720 --> 00:19:50.720 It's a collection of my long essay posts from the 361 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:52.279 group over the last year. 362 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.720 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 363 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:01.640 and now back to the show. 364 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.880 And it's kind of a rambling, disordered. 365 00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:12.599 Volume full of all. 366 00:20:12.480 --> 00:20:15.640 Kinds of prolls of wisdom that just occurred to me 367 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:17.920 from a post or someone's comment or something. 368 00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:19.200 I would pull out. 369 00:20:19.119 --> 00:20:23.160 My phone and write these gigantic, sometimes five and six 370 00:20:23.240 --> 00:20:25.920 page posts. They probably have a mental problem. I don't 371 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:30.319 know why I do it, but I do. And a 372 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.839 lot of people asked me to collect those, or they 373 00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.599 wanted me to archive them somehow so they could reference them. 374 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:40.559 Several pros have have used my rewriting post, which is 375 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:41.119 very popular. 376 00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:42.480 It's about six pages long. 377 00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:45.839 They one pro actually printed it out and glued it 378 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.480 onto the wall above his computer messaged me to tell 379 00:20:49.480 --> 00:20:52.359 me how useful it was. And I have a copyright post. 380 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:56.720 People tend to like screencraft. Publish part of that copyright post, 381 00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.839 and I'm going to publish the whole thing in the 382 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:00.559 book with Screencraft's permission. 383 00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:04.960 They've already given me permission to republish the whole but. 384 00:21:06.920 --> 00:21:09.559 That that should be useful. I've kind of lost track 385 00:21:09.559 --> 00:21:11.640 of where I was. But there's there's a plug for 386 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:12.079 the book. 387 00:21:13.519 --> 00:21:14.559 Do you know when that book's coming out? 388 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:18.119 Like, I'm with their contract to get it out in 389 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:22.359 the next Uh. I think I've got sixty days or 390 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:24.200 so to get the manuscript and that's not a problem 391 00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:29.200 because the manuscript's essentially finished and then the publisher has 392 00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.200 to publish it within six months. So, and we're shooting 393 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:37.400 for Barnes and Noble, you know, the brick and mortar stores. 394 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:40.880 I guess there'll probably be a hard hard copy hardcover 395 00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.000 version and the you know, standard. 396 00:21:46.200 --> 00:21:47.960 Paperback type version. 397 00:21:48.039 --> 00:21:51.319 We suspect it'll be oversized, probably a fight by eight 398 00:21:51.400 --> 00:21:52.960 or five y nine. It is probably gonna be out 399 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.720 two hundred and sixty pages, and it won't be like 400 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.039 any other It won't be like Trottier's Guide or anything 401 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:01.720 like that. That'll be fully index where you can go 402 00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:05.319 in and anthy you know, gee, I have this particular question. 403 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.160 I'm gonna look this is this is more of. 404 00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:17.480 Different subjects, the philosophies behind different ways of writing story, 405 00:22:17.559 --> 00:22:22.440 things like that. It's it's more s a forum rather 406 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.599 than subject driven like a lot of books, so it'll 407 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:28.599 be very different. It's more of the kind of the 408 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:32.680 book you sit down in a in a coffee shop 409 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:36.240 and and read it to get It's kind of like 410 00:22:36.279 --> 00:22:39.400 a mixture of opinion and method and things like that. 411 00:22:39.480 --> 00:22:40.400 So it'll be very different. 412 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.359 Oh, very cool, because you know, I have a ton 413 00:22:42.359 --> 00:22:44.880 of screenwriting books and this does sound very different than 414 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:47.160 than all the rest that I have. Obviously, because this 415 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:48.880 is a podcast, you can't see it, but next to 416 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:51.559 me is is my library of screenwriting books. 417 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.960 But yeah, that sound you know, that's just smart. 418 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:58.319 I mean, this is a is a very estheteric craft. 419 00:22:58.400 --> 00:23:03.440 It's a very closed industry. A lot of the really 420 00:23:03.440 --> 00:23:07.000 good screenwriters either don't have the time to help or 421 00:23:08.160 --> 00:23:10.559 don't want to help. And I've actually seen sabotage in 422 00:23:10.599 --> 00:23:13.119 groups I've seen. I won't name any of them, but 423 00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:17.440 I've seen professional or advanced writers who actually get paid 424 00:23:17.440 --> 00:23:20.480 all the time to write giving wrong answers on purpose 425 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:26.119 to spoil off either someone they don't like or somebody 426 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:30.880 that you know, they just decided to screw with And 427 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:34.359 of course that doesn't help anybody except the pro who's 428 00:23:34.440 --> 00:23:38.160 keeping down the competition. So opinions are going to vary 429 00:23:38.160 --> 00:23:41.640 in screenwriting books, and I have my own very strong opinions. 430 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:43.799 My book is going to be full of them. It's 431 00:23:43.799 --> 00:23:46.880 going to be full of cursing. It's not edited. It 432 00:23:47.599 --> 00:23:51.200 will be edited, but the language won't be edited out. 433 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:54.440 Sometimes if I'm angry about something, you know, I'll flavor 434 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:57.559 the post with a sprinkling of cursing, because that's just 435 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.119 how it came out. To keep the book genuine, and 436 00:24:00.240 --> 00:24:03.920 it's the posts are actually going in as the original essays. 437 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.319 They're not being edited down to make it politically correct 438 00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:11.000 or anything like that. So the book will offend some, 439 00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:13.799 it will amuse some, and it should help everyone that 440 00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:14.279 reads it. 441 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:17.160 And that's fantastic. You know, sometimes we need it. We 442 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:18.519 need a little tough love, Mike. 443 00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:22.119 And that's and that's what the book is. I'll yell 444 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:26.000 at you, I'll prop you up, I'll beat you down. 445 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:28.839 Then i'll i'll lift you up again, and and i'll 446 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:33.240 i'll inspire you to write better and to keep going. 447 00:24:33.839 --> 00:24:36.319 And then I'll i'll beat on you a while for 448 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.640 doing something a certain way that's that's not a very 449 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:42.599 effective or good or or or smart way, and then 450 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:43.319 I'll build. 451 00:24:43.079 --> 00:24:43.599 You up again. 452 00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:46.720 So it's it's it's kind of a tough ride, but 453 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:50.400 enough people approached me to write it and said, geez, 454 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.079 you need to put all these things in a book. 455 00:24:52.119 --> 00:24:56.240 These are terrific that a publisher actually approached me to 456 00:24:56.279 --> 00:25:01.400 publish the book. So, you know, situation, Yeah. 457 00:25:01.279 --> 00:25:03.960 It is an amazing situation. And you know, sometimes we 458 00:25:04.000 --> 00:25:06.640 need that tough love, you know, just a funny anecdote, Mike, 459 00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.680 I think that you'll really enjoy, you know. I one 460 00:25:09.680 --> 00:25:11.680 time had a beginner approached me with a script and 461 00:25:11.720 --> 00:25:13.200 they came into one of our group, but one of 462 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:18.119 my groups I was running, and their script had several 463 00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:21.880 pages within within the in the script with design drawings 464 00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:24.200 on them of what they were talking about inside the script. 465 00:25:24.599 --> 00:25:28.200 It's not good and it doesn't you know, it's it 466 00:25:28.880 --> 00:25:32.319 doesn't matter if they're Picasso, and it doesn't matter if 467 00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.799 they're Hemingway. Those things are not a good combination for 468 00:25:35.839 --> 00:25:38.680 a spec script. If you're if you were hired by 469 00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.640 somebody at dream Works who's absolutely visually driven and you've 470 00:25:42.640 --> 00:25:45.119 already got the job, and they see you doodle in 471 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:47.640 the margins and say, jeez, what a great drawing. I 472 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:49.640 short like to see some of those in your script. 473 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:52.880 By all means stores some artwork in the script, But 474 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:57.160 in a regular SPECS script you don't do that. You 475 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:01.359 don't put art work in. Every rule is made to 476 00:26:01.359 --> 00:26:04.319 be broken. One of my most award winning scripts, it 477 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.880 doesn't have artwork in it per se, but I do 478 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:10.759 some interesting things with a couple of different fonts that 479 00:26:10.799 --> 00:26:13.640 are cut in as JPEGs. One of the languages that 480 00:26:13.680 --> 00:26:16.279 the script is written in is Galileean Aramaic, which was 481 00:26:16.279 --> 00:26:22.440 the language spoken in the early Middle East which ended 482 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:25.880 not too long after Jesus' time. That's one of seven 483 00:26:25.960 --> 00:26:28.519 languages in the script. Well, there's no font for that, 484 00:26:28.599 --> 00:26:30.920 so I actually had to cut JPEGs into the script 485 00:26:31.319 --> 00:26:34.920 to put in the original Galilean Aramic, which actually mattered 486 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.920 because at one point the language actually appears on the screen. 487 00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:40.839 As a special effect. 488 00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.799 So to save producers the four months it took me 489 00:26:46.000 --> 00:26:48.960 to get four or five words, let me see, we 490 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:53.640 have a four words to four months to get translated 491 00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:57.640 by one of the world's experts in this language, so 492 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:00.359 to say, producers to time, if anyone picked up the script, 493 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.400 I went ahead and had the translation already done and 494 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:05.720 put in a script. So you know, rules are made 495 00:27:05.759 --> 00:27:07.920 to be broken, but you need to learn the rules 496 00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:11.279 and get good so you can decide when you need 497 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:14.160 to break them. I've never put our work, per say, 498 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.400 in a script, and I'm up to I don't know, 499 00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:22.279 thirteen features, with eight solely written and then others co 500 00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:26.079 written with best selling authors and people like that. And 501 00:27:27.000 --> 00:27:29.480 I had one person that wanted to put artwork in 502 00:27:29.519 --> 00:27:33.079 the script, and had a very frank talk with him, 503 00:27:33.079 --> 00:27:35.079 and I said, look, you came to me, you want 504 00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:37.160 me to write this with you. I like the idea, 505 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.319 I like the story. If you insist on putting artwork 506 00:27:40.319 --> 00:27:42.640 in the script, you're going to write it along. And 507 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:43.240 that was it. 508 00:27:43.599 --> 00:27:44.440 And no artwork. 509 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:47.359 Yeah, and that's something I want to get into. 510 00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:47.880 Mike. 511 00:27:48.039 --> 00:27:52.359 Is you your screenwriting? You know your methods and you 512 00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:54.079 know so when you were starting out, you know, you 513 00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:57.440 had David Tardier's book and you obviously you're reading, you know, 514 00:27:57.480 --> 00:27:59.160 you say to skin through that, and you were writing 515 00:27:59.200 --> 00:28:03.960 down ideas, and so I wanted to ask, did you 516 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:06.640 ever adhere to any sort of like method, you know, 517 00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:08.799 whether it be three acts, five acts, any of that 518 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:11.240 when you were writing, or did you just simply just 519 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:13.119 sort of had you had a starting point and you just. 520 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:23.519 Went, okay, so three acts and basically didn't read the book, 521 00:28:23.799 --> 00:28:27.799 just looked at the book for formatting, hadn't read any 522 00:28:28.359 --> 00:28:31.480 any professional script that you like, of any movie that 523 00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:34.240 I liked. Just had seen a bunch of scripts that 524 00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:37.079 I didn't think were written well, had been sent to 525 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:39.880 my daughter. There were some that were written well. They 526 00:28:39.880 --> 00:28:42.279 were you know by all means that someone researches this. 527 00:28:42.559 --> 00:28:45.200 Oh she auditioned for that. Mike said, the script is crap. Now, 528 00:28:45.559 --> 00:28:48.000 some of some of the scripts were crap. A lot 529 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:53.680 of them were just mediocre. So, and I'm unusual in 530 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:58.960 that I don't outline, and most writers do outline. There 531 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:02.319 are just a few, I would say, maybe less than 532 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:08.160 four percent. Probably closer to two percent don't outline. I 533 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:09.839 don't know if I want to call it a gift 534 00:29:09.960 --> 00:29:15.519 or if it's a curse. Most writers will actually execute 535 00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.240 a complete, fleshed out outline that maybe thirty forty to 536 00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.480 fifty sixty pages before they write the screenplay and they'll 537 00:29:22.480 --> 00:29:24.839 actually write it from the outline. I have never done that, 538 00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:31.960 and I write natively. But I also have developed my 539 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:36.759 own trademark writing method that a lot of even pros 540 00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:39.920 have commented publicly. They said that it's helped them a lot, 541 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:41.960 and a number of them are adopting. And I call 542 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:48.440 it BAM, which is the Beerman asynchronous method. And with BAM, 543 00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:51.799 what I do is I write the almost always write 544 00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:57.440 the end first, and sometimes I write the beginning first, 545 00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.079 but it's always either the beginning or the end, and 546 00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:02.000 then I wrote write the other. 547 00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:04.519 We'll be right. 548 00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:10.599 Back after a word from our sponsor, and now back 549 00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:11.400 to the show. 550 00:30:13.480 --> 00:30:15.440 End of it, whether it's the beginning or the end. 551 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.759 So I always start with the beginning and end when 552 00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:22.079 I start a script, and frequently the very first thing 553 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.559 that I will do is write the end and write 554 00:30:25.680 --> 00:30:27.960 fade out the end, and it'll be the first scene 555 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:28.400 I write. 556 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.319 That's very common for me. 557 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.920 Then I'll go back and write the beginning, and then 558 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:36.759 typically what I do is I will tie scenes into 559 00:30:37.480 --> 00:30:41.119 the beginning and end scene the first and last by definition, 560 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:46.000 and I will work backward from the outside end, which 561 00:30:46.039 --> 00:30:48.480 sounds strange until you try and see what it does. 562 00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.079 I will tie you know, I might write the end, 563 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:56.200 then I'll write the beginning. Then i'll write the second 564 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:59.720 scene of the screenplay. Then i'll go write three scenes 565 00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:03.319 back from the end. I'll jump back and write, you know, 566 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:06.359 the third scene at the beginning. And then I'll know 567 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.480 that I need a particular second act scene or a break, 568 00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.000 and I'll go in and i'll write that, and I'll 569 00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:17.240 just float it in the middle of final draft a 570 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:19.160 writer duet, which is what I use now. 571 00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:21.319 I'll just float it. 572 00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:27.279 In there and I will then write whatever scene occurs 573 00:31:27.319 --> 00:31:29.160 to me that I'm inspired to write that I know 574 00:31:29.279 --> 00:31:31.400 needs to be written at the time, and I fit 575 00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:34.799 them all together like a jigsaw puzzle, and I attach 576 00:31:34.920 --> 00:31:39.240 them to the anchors, which are both ends, and as 577 00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:43.640 I develop scenes in the middle, I'll when I know 578 00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:46.240 I have two scenes, sorry is a long answer. When 579 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:47.599 I know I have two scenes that are going to 580 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.279 stick together, I won't put any asterisks between them. I 581 00:31:51.400 --> 00:31:54.480 use like three asterisks when i'm floating a scene, and 582 00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:57.640 I'll pull the asterisks out when I tie two scenes 583 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.480 together and I know that nothing will go between them scenes, 584 00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:04.000 and then they may still be floating somewhere in the 585 00:32:04.079 --> 00:32:06.119 in the second or third act, somewhere in the middle 586 00:32:06.440 --> 00:32:09.359 of the script, and I just build the whole script 587 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.319 that way. When I write the last scene, it's it's 588 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.839 almost always a second act scene somewhere in the middle 589 00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:20.440 of the script, and I write it, rewrite that scene, 590 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.160 and I'm done, because I also rewrite as I go, 591 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:25.839 so then the whole thing only needs to be skimmed 592 00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:32.920 for continuity and for proofing errors. That method is a 593 00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:36.519 method that I developed on my own and gave a 594 00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:38.920 name to because people wanted to know how it was writing. 595 00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:42.599 A lot of people who said it sounds crazy tried 596 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:44.680 it and they absolutely love it. What it does is 597 00:32:44.680 --> 00:32:48.599 it prevents writer's block. If you're writing from the beginning 598 00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.799 of a script, scene by scene, and you know where 599 00:32:52.799 --> 00:32:54.319 you're going, you may have a bunch of things you 600 00:32:54.359 --> 00:32:57.200 already know you want to write, but you can't link 601 00:32:57.240 --> 00:33:01.160 it up because you get stuck earlier on on. With 602 00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.240 my method, you never get stuck if you if you 603 00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:06.200 don't know what you're gonna do next for a second, 604 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:08.480 you just jump ahead and write the next thing you 605 00:33:08.519 --> 00:33:10.480 know you're going to put in, even though I may 606 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:12.160 not be connected to what you just wrote. 607 00:33:12.319 --> 00:33:13.160 Does that make sense? 608 00:33:13.640 --> 00:33:13.759 Oh? 609 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:14.720 Yeah, it makes sense. 610 00:33:14.799 --> 00:33:20.119 But and so I've had I've had several protos, you know, 611 00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:23.599 one guy eighteen produced movies, another guy twenty produced movies, 612 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:26.599 another guy six produced movies. They've actually all used it 613 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:30.240 come back and said, my god, this this method is wonderful. 614 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:35.079 I don't know, I don't know why. I haven't, you know, 615 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:37.599 used this before. I never thought of it. I've never 616 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:40.720 seen it before. David Silverman, who is the creator of 617 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:47.319 the Wild Thornberrys, actually just recommended and endorsed this method 618 00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:51.319 and said it was genius. So that's kind of nice that. 619 00:33:51.839 --> 00:33:55.599 The interesting thing is, I haven't had anybody given an 620 00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:59.680 honest try after understanding the method which I described in 621 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.119 my in my upcoming book. I haven't had anybody give 622 00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:05.319 it an honest try and say that it didn't work 623 00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:06.039 for them. 624 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:07.240 I've had a number of. 625 00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:11.239 People who've refused to try it, you know, geez, that's scary. 626 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:12.159 I can't imagine it. 627 00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.199 But I've never had anybody who actually sat down and 628 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:18.039 gave it a good try who didn't benefit from it. 629 00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:23.760 So and that just developed again from learning to write 630 00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:26.599 my own way. I didn't go to film school I 631 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:29.239 didn't go to. I wasn't a film major. I wasn't 632 00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.920 a screenwriting major. I don't have an MFA in screenwriting. 633 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:34.480 I just did it on my own, and it works 634 00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:35.840 for me, it works for a lot of other people, 635 00:34:36.159 --> 00:34:39.079 and interestingly, it works for people who outline and for 636 00:34:39.159 --> 00:34:43.320 people who don't outline, because all of the writers that 637 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.679 I just mentioned, with the twenty and eighteen and six 638 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:53.840 movies and the Thornberry's creater, they all outline extensively. One 639 00:34:53.920 --> 00:34:59.679 of them is just an absolutely encyclopedic outliner and the 640 00:34:59.719 --> 00:35:05.039 math that still worked for him. So just kind of 641 00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.440 made sense to me, and I started writing that way. 642 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.280 You know, you mentioned, you know, beating writer's block. You know, 643 00:35:11.519 --> 00:35:13.800 I think that is. You know, that's something that I've 644 00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.880 dealt with too, Mike Is. At first I thought it 645 00:35:16.960 --> 00:35:19.119 was writer's block, and I realized, you know, what I 646 00:35:19.159 --> 00:35:22.000 think it was was decision fatigue. And what I mean 647 00:35:22.039 --> 00:35:24.320 by that is, you know, you start your screenplay from 648 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.760 the beginning, so here we are, you know, Act one, 649 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:29.400 page one, and you know, we start to sort of 650 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:30.039 write this. 651 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:36.679 The dangerous and deadly scary blank white page. 652 00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:41.000 Fade in interior. But but you know it was a. 653 00:35:41.079 --> 00:35:42.119 Dark and stormy night. 654 00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:43.239 Oh damn, I'm stuck. 655 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:46.400 It's kind of like that movie Throw Mama from the 656 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:49.840 Train and Billy Christal keeps writing that same sentence and 657 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.039 you can't figure out what to go next, and and 658 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.800 so you know, and it's basically, you know, a decision 659 00:35:55.880 --> 00:35:58.639 fatigue where you realize, oh my god, this screenplay could 660 00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:01.880 go in like ten thousand directions. And there was actually 661 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:04.480 a book I was reading about this, uh, the same 662 00:36:04.519 --> 00:36:06.440 sort of like you know, principle of you know, decision 663 00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:08.519 fatigue and you know, what're you know, obviously it could 664 00:36:08.559 --> 00:36:12.159 go in ten thousand different directions. And his argument was, 665 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.079 if you actually, you know, go back to the theme 666 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.119 and the and the the whole you know, the main 667 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:21.960 tension and everything of your screenplay, there really probably isn't 668 00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:25.199 ten thousand ways it could go. Really, it has to 669 00:36:25.239 --> 00:36:27.800 all tie in together. So that way, you know, see one, 670 00:36:28.320 --> 00:36:30.840 you know we're not you know, we're on an island, 671 00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:33.519 and then seeing two, you know, all these other different 672 00:36:33.559 --> 00:36:35.639 things are happening that have never been established. If you know, 673 00:36:35.639 --> 00:36:36.920 if you get what I'm trying to say. 674 00:36:37.519 --> 00:36:43.519 I do, and what the the decision fatigue problem that 675 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:46.079 that you've labeled and that you've designated is a very 676 00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:46.880 common problem. 677 00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:49.920 And uh, the band mess said what I just said. 678 00:36:50.519 --> 00:36:54.079 You can see immediately how that prevents it from happening. 679 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:58.039 If you know the end, you know where you're going. So, 680 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:02.920 by definition, everything scene you write is going to do 681 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.960 one of three things. It's either going to develop character, 682 00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.679 or it gets thrown out, or it's going to advance 683 00:37:11.719 --> 00:37:14.920 the plot, or it gets thrown out or the holy 684 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:20.280 grail of a scene is that it develops character, reveals character, 685 00:37:20.360 --> 00:37:24.480 deepens character, and advances the plot. That's what you should 686 00:37:24.519 --> 00:37:27.519 name for in every single scene. If you write a 687 00:37:27.559 --> 00:37:30.360 scene that doesn't do any of those things, throw it 688 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.400 out your you know, kill your baby, because it's not 689 00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.440 getting you to where you need to be. And because 690 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:44.760 budgets are determined by page count, and whether your screenplay 691 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.079 is picked up and produced or not may very well 692 00:37:48.880 --> 00:37:51.719 depend on what your page count is. If you can 693 00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:58.480 tell story A in ninety pages, or you can tell 694 00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:00.920 story A in one hundred and ten, and you can't 695 00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.239 get it down from one hundred and ten, story A 696 00:38:04.559 --> 00:38:07.400 ninety pages is much more likely to get made than 697 00:38:07.440 --> 00:38:11.599 one ten. Because line producers and people who determine how 698 00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:14.320 much a movie's gonna cost to make. They will assign, 699 00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:19.840 depending on genre, style, a bunch setting, you know, costume requirements, 700 00:38:19.960 --> 00:38:25.480 things like that, locations, they'll figure out special effects CGI. 701 00:38:25.239 --> 00:38:27.840 Goes on and on. They'll figure out a per cost 702 00:38:27.960 --> 00:38:29.639 page on average of the screenplay. 703 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:32.920 They'll multiply that out and they'll say, Okay, your spring 704 00:38:33.079 --> 00:38:34.599 to make this movie is going to cost us one 705 00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:40.280 hundred and ten times whatever that page cost is. That's 706 00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:43.679 gonnad up being a lot higher than what ninety times 707 00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:47.760 whatever the page cost is, right, Yeah, So if you 708 00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:50.840 can write the same story, tell the same story more 709 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:54.159 efficiently in fewer pages, even if nothing changes. 710 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:55.840 I've rewritten scripts for people. 711 00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:59.559 I did a reway for creative Artists and untitled Entertainment 712 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:05.039 Package project, and the original script was I think, oh, 713 00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:06.679 I've been looked at this in a long time. 714 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:09.719 Was a couple of years ago. The original script. 715 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:13.480 Was somewhere around It was one hundred and twelve pages, 716 00:39:13.800 --> 00:39:16.760 and they wanted it to be one hundred pages before 717 00:39:16.800 --> 00:39:19.760 it went to budgeting. They wanted one hundred. They did 718 00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:23.599 one hundred and twelve. So first thing, one of the 719 00:39:23.599 --> 00:39:25.400 first things I was asked to do was reduce the 720 00:39:25.440 --> 00:39:29.719 page count. So when I rewrote the script, not only 721 00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.719 did I I told them I said I think I 722 00:39:31.719 --> 00:39:34.159 can hit one hundred pages. They said that would be great, 723 00:39:34.239 --> 00:39:36.360 that's what we had in mind. We'd love that. So 724 00:39:36.960 --> 00:39:39.519 I actually hit ninety nine and a half pages, which 725 00:39:39.559 --> 00:39:42.280 is one hundred pages. Okay, you know ninety nine go 726 00:39:42.360 --> 00:39:44.719 to the one hundredth page halfway down. So I hit 727 00:39:44.800 --> 00:39:47.199 the goal. But not only did I do that, I 728 00:39:47.280 --> 00:39:49.840 filled five major plot holes and I added a whole 729 00:39:49.840 --> 00:39:50.599 new story. 730 00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:54.400 Arc we'll be right back after a word from our 731 00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:59.840 sponsor and now back to the show. 732 00:40:01.719 --> 00:40:05.440 So I was able to make the story more complex, 733 00:40:05.559 --> 00:40:09.320 more complete, get rid of problems, and still knock twelve 734 00:40:09.400 --> 00:40:12.239 pages out of the out of the thing. And so 735 00:40:13.079 --> 00:40:15.519 that's a successful rewrite, and they were. They were very 736 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:21.480 happy with it. So I kind of forgot how we 737 00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:24.320 got here. But it is again why you have a 738 00:40:24.400 --> 00:40:28.159 goal post in mind. You don't wander off and get lost. 739 00:40:28.239 --> 00:40:30.119 That's the how I found I found my way again. 740 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:33.039 If you know the end, everything that you write is 741 00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:38.599 going to be advancing your characters, your plot, moving all 742 00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:41.800 of the things you've created toward that end. If you 743 00:40:41.960 --> 00:40:45.079 know where you're going. You don't stumble and get lost. 744 00:40:45.440 --> 00:40:48.760 You always move toward that goal tost There are going 745 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:50.920 to be a lot of choices on the way that 746 00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:53.239 you're going to have to make, but those choices are 747 00:40:53.239 --> 00:40:54.199 now narrowed. 748 00:40:53.880 --> 00:40:56.679 And focused by the fact that you know where you're going. 749 00:40:57.079 --> 00:41:00.519 A lot of people who overwrite I don't have an 750 00:41:00.599 --> 00:41:03.880 ending in mind, and they'll wander this way and that way, 751 00:41:03.960 --> 00:41:06.559 and they'll end up having, you know, five or eight 752 00:41:06.639 --> 00:41:10.000 or ten scenes that don't contribute to where they eventually 753 00:41:10.079 --> 00:41:10.480 end up. 754 00:41:10.960 --> 00:41:13.239 And you know, it happens all the time. 755 00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:16.079 I read somebody wrote a comment yesterday, Gee, I just 756 00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:20.079 finished my screenplay. I hate it. I hate my own screenplay. 757 00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:22.840 It's not what I set out to write. I don't 758 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:25.760 know how I got here. I don't like the ending, 759 00:41:25.880 --> 00:41:29.239 I don't like the story, and it's not what I intended. 760 00:41:29.599 --> 00:41:31.559 So now I've got to do a page one rewrite. 761 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:33.440 That's because you didn't know where you were going. 762 00:41:35.440 --> 00:41:37.840 Yeah, you know one piece of advice you're years ago 763 00:41:37.840 --> 00:41:40.119 that I heard from the writer of Fight Club, Chuck 764 00:41:40.119 --> 00:41:40.679 Paul Knook. 765 00:41:41.159 --> 00:41:43.239 He actually terrific writer. 766 00:41:43.480 --> 00:41:47.679 Yeah, he's phenomenal. He gave me the advice that he's like, right, right, 767 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:49.920 your beginning. He goes, literally he goes, right, you know, 768 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.199 whatever opening, what do you want to do? And then 769 00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:54.079 he says, go to the go to your last page, 770 00:41:54.079 --> 00:41:57.000 whatever that might be. And he goes, just write the end. 771 00:41:57.320 --> 00:41:59.440 And he said, you're gonna do is because he's going 772 00:41:59.480 --> 00:42:02.199 to feel comple if you do it this way. He said, 773 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:04.000 then what you're gonna write? So that way? Again, like 774 00:42:04.039 --> 00:42:06.119 you just said, it was a goal, and that's what 775 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:08.400 he also, you know, told me a couple of years ago, 776 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:10.840 was it it's a goal and that way you know 777 00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:13.519 at least you know what you're going towards, and that 778 00:42:13.559 --> 00:42:14.280 way you correct. 779 00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:16.960 So he has a similar uh that I didn't know 780 00:42:17.000 --> 00:42:19.519 he said that, but he has a similar philosophy to 781 00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.360 to what I do. And it sounds like he starts 782 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:25.960 off writing the same way. And by the way, you 783 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:29.360 should note I do that whether my screenplay is linear 784 00:42:29.519 --> 00:42:34.639 or nonlinear. Uh, it doesn't matter. I write the screenplay nonlinearly, 785 00:42:35.239 --> 00:42:37.199 even if it's going to be a linear form. 786 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:40.800 So let's say it's a straight three act you know. 787 00:42:42.519 --> 00:42:45.159 First the second act break, you know, page twenty three, 788 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:47.280 what you know, if it's going to be a straight 789 00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:55.360 three act screenplay and it has a linear plot, without flashbacks, 790 00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:59.320 without jumping around, nothing fancy, just a simple straight story. 791 00:42:59.679 --> 00:43:01.760 And that could be anything from a family film to 792 00:43:01.840 --> 00:43:04.000 a military film. You know, you can do anything that way. 793 00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:07.880 The subject matter doesn't matter, it's just how you choose 794 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:13.679 to write it. Time wise, you can use my form, 795 00:43:13.679 --> 00:43:16.320 and I do use the form to write linear screenplays. 796 00:43:16.679 --> 00:43:18.719 I just don't write them in order. I write the 797 00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:21.480 whole screenplay out of order, but when you end up 798 00:43:21.480 --> 00:43:26.639 reading the screenplay, it's in order. And it also works 799 00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:30.000 for nonlinear methods. If you're writing something like fight clubs nonlinear. 800 00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:33.440 If you're writing something that jumps around, and you have 801 00:43:33.440 --> 00:43:36.440 an unreliable narrator and he may or may not be crazy, 802 00:43:36.519 --> 00:43:38.159 and he may may not be who you even think 803 00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:41.880 he is, you can still use that method and jump 804 00:43:41.960 --> 00:43:46.440 all over the place and write the screenplay that's going 805 00:43:46.480 --> 00:43:49.519 to be nonlinear, and write it in a nonlinear fashion, 806 00:43:49.840 --> 00:43:52.519 which sounds very chaotic but actually makes sense when you're 807 00:43:52.519 --> 00:43:52.960 doing it. 808 00:43:53.400 --> 00:43:57.039 So, as I always say, if. 809 00:43:56.960 --> 00:43:59.119 You know where you're going, and you know where you're 810 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:02.400 coming from, a nice to find world that you're working 811 00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:05.159 with in you're not going to start writing, you know, 812 00:44:05.280 --> 00:44:10.559 crazy stuff about Mars in your story about you know, 813 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:13.280 the kids starting school in new school district because the 814 00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.559 parents got divorced. You know, all of a sudden, you're 815 00:44:15.559 --> 00:44:17.920 writing about Martians on Mars, right, and you're having a 816 00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:20.920 space shootout because you had no idea where you were 817 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:23.880 going with your screenplay. And I've actually came crazy stuff 818 00:44:23.920 --> 00:44:24.280 like that. 819 00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:26.400 I'm sure you have too. 820 00:44:26.519 --> 00:44:29.960 People end up with like three different stories in one screenplay. 821 00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.679 They get horribly lost, and then they get right or 822 00:44:33.679 --> 00:44:36.679 back to writer's block. Oh you know, I don't want 823 00:44:36.679 --> 00:44:39.079 to write next. Yeah, because you jacked the whole thing up. 824 00:44:39.639 --> 00:44:42.239 You got yourself in a jackpot. You've written yourself into 825 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:44.760 a corner and nobody would know what to write next 826 00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:49.840 because none of it makes any sense. So you know, 827 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:52.280 learn and writing method and stick to it. Like I said, 828 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.559 my method works for me. It's worked for everyone I 829 00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:57.480 know that's trying to who's gotten back to me on it. 830 00:44:59.159 --> 00:45:01.639 But you you need to learn to write in. 831 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:04.559 A consistent method that works for you however you write 832 00:45:05.000 --> 00:45:07.760 and stick to that, develop that method and make. 833 00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:11.119 It work for you. 834 00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:14.119 You know, Chuck has his own method that's apparently similar 835 00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:16.760 to mine, and I think that's a very smart method. 836 00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:19.039 It's funny. I admire that writer. Maybe that's why I 837 00:45:19.119 --> 00:45:22.679 like him so much, because we write in a similar convention. 838 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:23.360 I don't know. 839 00:45:24.880 --> 00:45:26.159 Yeah, you know, great mindstick, I like. 840 00:45:26.239 --> 00:45:29.400 Right, So well that's what that's what they say. 841 00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:32.119 You know, because you know, just to continue with what 842 00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:34.039 you were just saying about, you know, no no writer 843 00:45:34.119 --> 00:45:36.440 could fix, you know, a screenplay that has all those 844 00:45:36.480 --> 00:45:38.960 problems because you know, there's no goal, there's no sort 845 00:45:38.960 --> 00:45:41.920 of central narrative to it. You know. I remember when 846 00:45:41.920 --> 00:45:45.719 I read a screenplay years ago and it was this 847 00:45:45.719 --> 00:45:48.800 this guy had this idea for the this like anthology, 848 00:45:49.719 --> 00:45:52.280 i'm sorry, a horror movie trilogy, and I read the 849 00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.119 first part of it, the first screenplay. I read all 850 00:45:55.159 --> 00:45:58.320 one hundred and some odd pages, and literally it was 851 00:45:58.360 --> 00:46:02.159 about these two vamp hires who live in like this 852 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:05.119 old mansion or something has all these catacombs underneath it, 853 00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.039 and it's just about like it's almost like. 854 00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:09.840 We haven't seen that one before. 855 00:46:10.039 --> 00:46:12.960 And it's just all these different people, like groups of 856 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:15.599 people go in there and they're getting killed. There's no 857 00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.480 there's no goal, there's nothing. 858 00:46:17.639 --> 00:46:22.760 Literally, there's no story exactly. And unfortunately, I'm hearing a 859 00:46:22.800 --> 00:46:28.880 lot of reports of this from screenplay contest screenwriting contest 860 00:46:28.960 --> 00:46:32.719 judges that they're seeing a lot of screenplays that have 861 00:46:33.000 --> 00:46:37.159 essentially no purpose. There's no story being told. You know, Okay, 862 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.119 I get it. It's slash or genre, and we're going 863 00:46:40.159 --> 00:46:41.599 to see a whole bunch of blood, a whole bunch 864 00:46:41.639 --> 00:46:43.840 of people killed, and then all of a sudden we 865 00:46:43.920 --> 00:46:46.039 decide that's enough and we stop the movie. But it 866 00:46:46.119 --> 00:46:52.679 never tells a story. That's that's not uh, that's not screenwriting. 867 00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:57.840 That's just dribbling out garbage. And this is what happens 868 00:46:57.840 --> 00:47:01.400 when you have an unfocused person writing that doesn't know 869 00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:04.400 why they're writing or where they're going. You end up 870 00:47:04.440 --> 00:47:07.760 with something like that. You know, a lot of writer's block. Also, 871 00:47:08.119 --> 00:47:11.079 jumping quickly back to that as it ties in here, 872 00:47:11.559 --> 00:47:13.880 is if you have problems in your in your opening, 873 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.360 in your first act, and the first act is unfocused, 874 00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:23.239 not set upright, not structured right, you really don't have 875 00:47:23.320 --> 00:47:26.079 any idea why you're writing. And that'll be very apparent 876 00:47:26.119 --> 00:47:29.159 to the reader very quickly. By the way, you don't 877 00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:31.039 know why you're sitting down and writing to tell this 878 00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:34.559 story that is going to cause you massive writer's block, 879 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:39.280 because if the first act is poorly structured and poorly 880 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:43.280 set up everything that comes after. It's like Domino's, It's 881 00:47:43.400 --> 00:47:47.639 like Jenga or Jackstraws or any of these things. If 882 00:47:47.679 --> 00:47:51.440 you if you've set the foundation badly, there's no way 883 00:47:51.480 --> 00:47:54.239 the house will stand. I even have a post written 884 00:47:54.239 --> 00:47:57.679 on this, so right about making an analogy to you know, 885 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:00.639 building a house. You know, don't build a a house 886 00:48:00.679 --> 00:48:04.559 on sand, Okay, building on rock. I have a whole 887 00:48:04.639 --> 00:48:07.760 essay on this, and that's it's all about first act 888 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:12.800 structure and knowing what you're doing in the first act 889 00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:15.079 because that sets up the entire story, doesn't it. 890 00:48:15.679 --> 00:48:17.440 Yeah, it really does. Like they say, if you have 891 00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:19.960 the second or third act problems, you have first act problems. 892 00:48:20.000 --> 00:48:26.440 Really correct, and again, most of those problems can be 893 00:48:26.519 --> 00:48:31.519 solved by knowing the beginning and the ending right when 894 00:48:31.519 --> 00:48:34.320 you start. But David Silverman I just mentioned that while 895 00:48:34.360 --> 00:48:37.800 Thornberry's creator wrote a it was very gracious and he 896 00:48:37.840 --> 00:48:40.119 wrote a recommendation for my book that'll be on the 897 00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:42.079 you know, fronting. 898 00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:42.840 Side or back cover. 899 00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:44.480 I don't know where it's going there are a bunch 900 00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:49.360 of recommendations to fit. And he said that using this 901 00:48:49.400 --> 00:48:54.639 particular method, you end up with a much twistier, surprising plot, 902 00:48:54.800 --> 00:48:59.519 with all kinds of fresh takes on things that isn't 903 00:48:59.599 --> 00:49:07.559 stale that may even surprise the writer. By writing using 904 00:49:07.639 --> 00:49:11.159 a different method, you end up with something that may 905 00:49:11.199 --> 00:49:12.159 even surprise you. 906 00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:13.760 It doesn't surprise you. 907 00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:15.320 In that you at the beginning in the end, but 908 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:18.000 how you get there can vary, as I said, and 909 00:49:18.039 --> 00:49:21.800 so you may discover some ingenious twists and things along 910 00:49:21.840 --> 00:49:24.360 the way, but you always know where you're going. So 911 00:49:24.400 --> 00:49:26.440 there are a bunch of different ways to tell the story, 912 00:49:26.880 --> 00:49:30.079 and the details may vary of what is going in 913 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:34.559 the story, the different moral lessons, and the different challenges 914 00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:38.840 that characters face, the internal and external challenges. You know, 915 00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:44.719 no stories, no story works if the protagonist is perfect. Okay, 916 00:49:44.760 --> 00:49:48.239 we work with flawed characters, and some of the best 917 00:49:48.760 --> 00:49:52.760 stories are told from the most damaged flawed characters. 918 00:49:54.000 --> 00:49:56.480 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 919 00:50:00.159 --> 00:50:03.119 and now back to the show. 920 00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:04.880 And the story. 921 00:50:05.599 --> 00:50:10.400 As they get the external challenges, you look at how 922 00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:14.800 their character, their internal character reacts to that, and you 923 00:50:14.960 --> 00:50:19.119 see the character's character arc, which can be you know, 924 00:50:19.360 --> 00:50:24.639 learning improvement, change changes the mechanism that drives the character arc, 925 00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:29.239 or you can have you know, some characters will go 926 00:50:29.360 --> 00:50:34.519 through some things in as sociopathic characters, other damaged characters, 927 00:50:34.599 --> 00:50:38.199 and they may actually not have a character arc. The secario, 928 00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:43.639 which I really like, evokes strong reactions. Some people don't 929 00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:48.960 like the film because they think Emily Blunt's character, the Agent, 930 00:50:49.079 --> 00:50:52.639 the FBI agent she plays, doesn't have a character arc. 931 00:50:52.760 --> 00:50:56.119 I argue that she does have a character arc without 932 00:50:56.119 --> 00:51:00.199 getting too far into spoiler. She's completely by the the 933 00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:03.800 book and incorruptible at first, and then at the end 934 00:51:03.880 --> 00:51:06.719 when faced with her own death, because she's going to 935 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:12.000 go forward and reveal by the book, reveal all the 936 00:51:12.159 --> 00:51:17.239 criminal and sketchy things that were done that Josh Bolan's 937 00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:20.639 character very much, the CIA guy wants her to say 938 00:51:20.679 --> 00:51:23.760 everything went by the book, to cover up all the 939 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:24.480 things they did. 940 00:51:25.280 --> 00:51:26.360 In the end, to save. 941 00:51:26.159 --> 00:51:30.519 Herself, she falsifies the document to save her own life. 942 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:33.440 So my argument has always been she does have a 943 00:51:33.519 --> 00:51:39.199 character arc. She changes from the incorruptible you know, perfect 944 00:51:39.239 --> 00:51:44.679 if you will agent, the idealized agent, and she changes 945 00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:47.559 to somebody who to save. 946 00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:50.480 Herself, falsifies the report of what happened. 947 00:51:50.800 --> 00:51:55.159 So but anyway, you know, you start with with damaged 948 00:51:55.239 --> 00:51:58.400 characters and you move them through the story, and that's 949 00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:02.239 that's the story arc. That's why we're entertained, is because 950 00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:03.920 we get to see change. 951 00:52:03.599 --> 00:52:04.239 In a character. 952 00:52:04.760 --> 00:52:08.840 If you have a character that you know is waterproof 953 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:11.719 and bulletproof and you know, nothing ever happens to them, 954 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.599 which I've always felt was a big danger with Superman, 955 00:52:14.719 --> 00:52:19.679 by the way, you know, that's why there's Kryptonite, right, yeah, 956 00:52:20.119 --> 00:52:22.960 because if he has no fault, he has no weakness. 957 00:52:24.639 --> 00:52:26.320 What are we going to do for a story? 958 00:52:27.480 --> 00:52:28.840 You developed the the. 959 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:34.639 Ultimate badass Marvel superhero that can't be touched, that nothing 960 00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:38.119 can ever happen to them, Like the Silver Surfer. There's 961 00:52:38.280 --> 00:52:40.239 there's really not a whole lot you can do with 962 00:52:40.320 --> 00:52:43.480 that character. And that's why The Surfer had limited appearances 963 00:52:43.480 --> 00:52:45.760 and things. You look at somebody like Deadpool, who's in 964 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:49.719 a very very damaged character who may or may not 965 00:52:49.960 --> 00:52:54.239 even be sane and Marvel finally, you know, Ryan Reynolds 966 00:52:54.280 --> 00:52:58.360 fought ten years to make Deadpool, and they insisted on 967 00:52:58.960 --> 00:53:03.599 you know, the script being genuine to the source material, 968 00:53:04.000 --> 00:53:06.679 and Marvel is very worried because you know, totally not 969 00:53:06.800 --> 00:53:11.159 PC and it's dirty and filthy, and he curses and 970 00:53:11.199 --> 00:53:14.320 he has sex, and he does all kinds of bad 971 00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:18.800 things that heroes shouldn't do, and that makes him fascinating. 972 00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:21.599 And that's why Deadpool killed it at the box office. 973 00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.360 I honestly believe it was. It was probably my favorite 974 00:53:25.400 --> 00:53:28.840 movie of the year. So probably not gonna win any Oscars, 975 00:53:29.719 --> 00:53:34.719 maybe special effects, who knows, but entertainment wise, you know. 976 00:53:34.719 --> 00:53:35.400 I thought it was. 977 00:53:36.480 --> 00:53:38.719 I thought it was a terrific film because you had 978 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:41.559 such a flawed character and it was just so entertaining 979 00:53:41.599 --> 00:53:42.719 to watch him go through all that. 980 00:53:43.239 --> 00:53:46.280 So yeah, and I also agree with that. The reason 981 00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:48.079 I liked it was because it was so different than 982 00:53:48.119 --> 00:53:50.880 all the other superhero movies that are coming out. Obviously, 983 00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:54.039 you know, it didn't take itself too seriously. It was 984 00:53:54.159 --> 00:53:56.519 completely different. It was a complete one eighty from all 985 00:53:56.559 --> 00:53:59.960 the other superhero movies that were coming out, and it's 986 00:54:00.280 --> 00:54:02.119 I think that's why I enjoyed it so much. 987 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:05.000 Yeah, he break they break the fourth wall the time, 988 00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:06.639 you know, he turns and looks at the camera and 989 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:09.360 goes you know, you know, gee would a superhero really 990 00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:12.199 do this, and you know, there's a fourth wall break 991 00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:13.800 within a fourth wall break. 992 00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:17.440 And they they constantly pull the audience in. And those 993 00:54:17.440 --> 00:54:17.960 are things. 994 00:54:18.519 --> 00:54:22.159 Those are things that were pretty much although you know, 995 00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.480 even in Greek theater and Roman theater, those are things 996 00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:29.440 the aside where the actor turns and talks to the audience. Okay, 997 00:54:30.199 --> 00:54:32.840 those are things that have always been in storytelling. In 998 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:37.880 modern screenwriting, they were pioneered by Shane Black, of course, 999 00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:41.360 with the with the Shane blackisms, you know, one of 1000 00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:45.039 the most famous being and he's describing a mansion and 1001 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.880 I'm paraphrasing, I don't remember exactly, but he'll say, you 1002 00:54:47.920 --> 00:54:50.519 know that he's describing the place, and he stops and 1003 00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:53.599 he says, you know, look guys, basically, and he's writing 1004 00:54:53.719 --> 00:54:56.760 like this in the script. Look, guys, basically, this is 1005 00:54:56.920 --> 00:54:59.639 exactly the kind of place that you would buy if 1006 00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:02.159 you hit the lottery and you had millions and millions 1007 00:55:02.199 --> 00:55:04.199 of dollars and you wanted two great parties for all 1008 00:55:04.239 --> 00:55:07.360 your friends. This is this is the shit you would buy. 1009 00:55:07.480 --> 00:55:10.960 And he puts that in the script. So Deadpool did 1010 00:55:11.039 --> 00:55:14.400 much the same kind of thing. You know, when I 1011 00:55:14.400 --> 00:55:16.559 set through the opening of dead Pool by the time 1012 00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:19.679 they finished writing the credits, you know, calling the director 1013 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:22.960 an overpaid tool and the writers. 1014 00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.239 You know, the real heroes. General, I was fully. 1015 00:55:24.960 --> 00:55:27.320 Satisfied with the price that paid for the movie, just 1016 00:55:27.360 --> 00:55:30.880 getting through the opening credits. You know. 1017 00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.360 Also, like you mentioned Shane Black, I saw that you 1018 00:55:33.400 --> 00:55:35.880 actually were able to meet Shane Black. Was that a 1019 00:55:35.880 --> 00:55:37.079 writer's conference. 1020 00:55:37.960 --> 00:55:44.039 That was at Austin Film Festival. So I script called Needles, 1021 00:55:44.039 --> 00:55:47.360 which is an allegorical diabolical, diabolical thriller that I found 1022 00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:49.840 myself talking about a lot because people are curious about it, 1023 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.800 and that's how I went to Austin. I wasn't going 1024 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:56.320 to go, and the director of Austin, Matt Matt Dee 1025 00:55:56.360 --> 00:55:59.679 called me, I think, a couple times, convincing me to 1026 00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:03.519 go because apparently my script was going to finish pretty high. 1027 00:56:03.559 --> 00:56:10.320 Frank Airbahn, director Showshank Redemption, Walking Dead creator, and you know, 1028 00:56:10.440 --> 00:56:14.199 a bunch of other stuff. He'd picked Needles top ten. 1029 00:56:14.239 --> 00:56:16.079 Of course I didn't know this at the time, but 1030 00:56:16.159 --> 00:56:20.280 he'd picked it top ten scripts for the Science Fiction 1031 00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:25.639 Award and top ten scripts for the Horror Prize out 1032 00:56:25.639 --> 00:56:28.840 of eighty six hundred and twenty seven scripts. So when 1033 00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:31.719 you do really well at some of these film festivals 1034 00:56:31.719 --> 00:56:36.239 like Austin, I made the top group where I got 1035 00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:40.039 to have, you know, secret meetings in special places with 1036 00:56:40.320 --> 00:56:43.599 great people that nobody else could go to. And those 1037 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:47.679 meetings often had you know, twenty thirty forty people that's 1038 00:56:47.719 --> 00:56:52.639 it from the whole film festival, whereas people who wrote 1039 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:56.360 scripts that did decently but finished lower, they'd be in 1040 00:56:56.400 --> 00:56:59.159 a room full of you know, hundreds of people. And 1041 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:03.599 so I ended up in a room, a very small room, 1042 00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:06.920 you know, size of a small dining room, maybe a 1043 00:57:06.960 --> 00:57:10.679 little bigger, with Shane Black and a whole bunch of 1044 00:57:11.400 --> 00:57:17.920 high finishers, and he was taking questions. So everybody was 1045 00:57:18.079 --> 00:57:20.000 kind of shy, and I think I asked the first question. 1046 00:57:20.079 --> 00:57:21.840 I'm not shy. I jumped up and I asked him 1047 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:25.440 about It was something about working with Robert Downey Junior 1048 00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:29.719 and Val Kilmer. Their methods are very different, and what 1049 00:57:29.920 --> 00:57:33.599 was going on in Robert Downey Junior's life, which I 1050 00:57:33.599 --> 00:57:36.679 won't rehash here at the time, and you know, got 1051 00:57:36.679 --> 00:57:39.360 to ask him one on one questions right there, which 1052 00:57:39.360 --> 00:57:41.880 I think they actually put on a podcaster on the radio, 1053 00:57:41.920 --> 00:57:45.639 which is kind of cool. But he had actually auditioned 1054 00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:50.000 my daughter for a film, and her audition went straight 1055 00:57:50.039 --> 00:57:53.079 to him, and he really liked her. And we went 1056 00:57:53.119 --> 00:57:55.480 back and forth in a couple roles on that. Ultimately 1057 00:57:55.519 --> 00:57:59.400 we didn't we didn't finish one of the auditions. We 1058 00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:02.119 chose not to do. But I was a terrific guy, 1059 00:58:03.480 --> 00:58:07.519 very very generous guy with his with his time, and 1060 00:58:08.519 --> 00:58:13.000 just extremely gracious to other writers. So you know, I 1061 00:58:13.000 --> 00:58:17.639 got some great pictures with him. I can prove it happened. 1062 00:58:18.400 --> 00:58:20.239 Well, that's how I actually saw it too. I saw 1063 00:58:20.280 --> 00:58:24.239 you met him because when you were on John Fallon's podcast, 1064 00:58:24.519 --> 00:58:26.800 I actually saw That's one of the photos he added 1065 00:58:26.840 --> 00:58:28.679 was you and Shane Black. And I wanted to make 1066 00:58:28.679 --> 00:58:31.239 sure I asked you that, Mike, because Shane Black is uh. 1067 00:58:31.440 --> 00:58:36.119 I don't think there's a screenwriter alive right now who 1068 00:58:36.239 --> 00:58:40.679 hasn't who doesn't envy or you know, look at Shane 1069 00:58:40.679 --> 00:58:42.519 Black as sort of like a guide in one way 1070 00:58:42.599 --> 00:58:43.000 or another. 1071 00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:46.639 Well, I mean he's you know, he's he's a pioneer. 1072 00:58:46.760 --> 00:58:49.159 He's the guy that did something that you know, in 1073 00:58:49.360 --> 00:58:52.719 modern times in screenwriting, nobody had done, and he did 1074 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:57.519 it with he did it with dash and and and bravado, 1075 00:58:57.800 --> 00:59:01.639 and he nailed it. So he he's a guy much 1076 00:59:01.639 --> 00:59:02.280 to be admired. 1077 00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:02.639 You know. 1078 00:59:02.679 --> 00:59:07.159 I also met Terry Rossio, who was just absolutely incredible guy, 1079 00:59:07.239 --> 00:59:09.599 and he was very, very funny, and we were standing 1080 00:59:09.599 --> 00:59:13.119 outside in front of the hotel and I asked him 1081 00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:14.800 for I asked him if I could get a picture, 1082 00:59:14.800 --> 00:59:16.199 and you know, a lot of people are walking by him. 1083 00:59:16.199 --> 00:59:19.159 Had no idea who he was, and so he went 1084 00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:21.199 walking by me, and my you know, ears pricked up, 1085 00:59:21.199 --> 00:59:22.199 and I said, holy. 1086 00:59:22.199 --> 00:59:23.280 Smokes, there he goes. 1087 00:59:23.320 --> 00:59:26.400 And so I went out politely introduced myself and he said, 1088 00:59:26.880 --> 00:59:29.239 he said to I don't know if it was his 1089 00:59:29.360 --> 00:59:31.840 driver or somebody that was hanging out with him. He said, 1090 00:59:32.440 --> 00:59:34.159 he said, I like this guy. Let's take about a 1091 00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:36.400 dozen pictures. And he turns to me and he starts 1092 00:59:36.440 --> 00:59:40.360 to direct to see. He says, Okay, we're just a 1093 00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:42.920 couple guys hanging out talking here. There's a there's a 1094 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:46.239 strange accident or happening in the distance, and all kinds 1095 00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:48.159 of weird stuff is going on, so we start acting 1096 00:59:48.199 --> 00:59:49.800 like we're watching this. Of course, he was much better 1097 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:50.519 at it than I was. 1098 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.559 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 1099 00:59:58.159 --> 00:59:59.440 and now back to the show. 1100 01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:05.039 And I got like a dozen pictures of us making 1101 01:00:05.079 --> 01:00:08.119 stupid faces and kind of grabbing onto each other and 1102 01:00:08.239 --> 01:00:12.119 going ooh, went on, He's just hilarious, just a terrific guy. 1103 01:00:12.440 --> 01:00:19.920 And I met uh uh uh John Lee Hincock, and 1104 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:23.360 I met uh with the blind sigh, I wrote, I 1105 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:28.559 met Andrew Kevin Walker, who that was great to meet him. 1106 01:00:29.039 --> 01:00:32.000 Yes in the game, and yeah, I those there are 1107 01:00:32.000 --> 01:00:35.159 a couple of my favorite movies. So uh, you know, 1108 01:00:35.199 --> 01:00:38.599 the Evolution of Seven. Any anyone who aspires to be 1109 01:00:38.599 --> 01:00:42.320 a screenwriter really needs to read the story of Seven. 1110 01:00:42.440 --> 01:00:44.800 And what he went through, you know, is a towered 1111 01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:46.599 record tower, records clerk. 1112 01:00:47.079 --> 01:00:49.119 Trying to get anybody interested in this thing. 1113 01:00:49.239 --> 01:00:52.719 He finally gets an agent on the phone, starts talking 1114 01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:54.800 as fast as he can and spitting stuff out, and 1115 01:00:54.800 --> 01:00:58.840 the agent doesn't hang up on him, actually is interested, 1116 01:00:59.159 --> 01:01:01.679 starts asking qui lessians, agrees to read the script, and 1117 01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:05.239 then boom, all of a sudden, it takes off from there. 1118 01:01:05.320 --> 01:01:06.960 But you know, all the time to get to that 1119 01:01:07.079 --> 01:01:11.840 lucky break, and then you know, director after director had 1120 01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:15.960 him rewrite the script. The original script had the Head 1121 01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:20.880 in the Box ending, which was, you know, shocking. 1122 01:01:20.880 --> 01:01:21.719 To the studios. 1123 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:28.199 There's absolutely amazing ending, and you know, oh that's too much, 1124 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:29.719 we need to rewrite it. So they kept having him 1125 01:01:29.719 --> 01:01:31.920 rewrite the script, and then that director would go off 1126 01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:34.559 the project. The next guy would come in, Oh, I 1127 01:01:34.559 --> 01:01:38.000 love this project, Let's rewrite the script. So he kept 1128 01:01:38.039 --> 01:01:41.400 doing that, and then finally David Fincher came in and 1129 01:01:42.400 --> 01:01:46.519 apparently I read an interview recently, I wasn't clear on 1130 01:01:46.519 --> 01:01:49.280 how to tappened. Apparently Andrew Kevin Walker sent him the 1131 01:01:49.280 --> 01:01:54.119 wrong script. He sent him the earliest, the first version 1132 01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:59.400 with the head in the box, and Fincher loved it, 1133 01:01:59.840 --> 01:02:03.960 and they went together and fought with the producers in 1134 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:06.400 the studio to get it made. And my understanding, if 1135 01:02:06.440 --> 01:02:09.280 I recall, is Morgan Freeman is actually the reason why 1136 01:02:09.360 --> 01:02:12.159 the movie got made the way it did, because at 1137 01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:14.840 some point Morgan Freeman came forward and said, look, if 1138 01:02:14.880 --> 01:02:16.760 you don't make it with that ending with the head 1139 01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:19.679 in the box, I'm gone, I'm walking. And so that 1140 01:02:19.800 --> 01:02:22.800 did it. But I got to meet him, I got 1141 01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:27.880 to meet his brother. They were very nice, and I 1142 01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:30.199 just heard him talk and I waited around, and you know, 1143 01:02:30.519 --> 01:02:34.039 these people are normal people. I mean, they're not gods, 1144 01:02:34.079 --> 01:02:36.239 and people idealize them and oh, I know who that 1145 01:02:36.239 --> 01:02:36.559 guy is. 1146 01:02:36.599 --> 01:02:37.159 I know his name. 1147 01:02:37.159 --> 01:02:39.880 I've seen that actor on TV. Well when you really 1148 01:02:39.920 --> 01:02:43.199 need him, they're just regular people. Some of them act 1149 01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:45.960 like they're not regular people. Some of them act like 1150 01:02:46.000 --> 01:02:48.639 regular people. Most of them want to be treated like 1151 01:02:48.679 --> 01:02:50.559 anybody else. They don't want to be you know, they've 1152 01:02:50.559 --> 01:02:53.119 had enough of that. Some of them aren't that way, 1153 01:02:53.239 --> 01:02:55.519 you know, some of them have viewed egos. A lot 1154 01:02:55.639 --> 01:02:57.800 of them just want to be left alone and treated 1155 01:02:57.880 --> 01:03:00.760 like anybody else. So I waited in a very short 1156 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:03.159 line because people were afraid to approach them, and went 1157 01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:04.719 up and got to talk with him for you know, 1158 01:03:04.719 --> 01:03:08.000 it wasn't long, maybe five minutes. But I've got pictures 1159 01:03:08.000 --> 01:03:13.199 with them too. So, so is there what's the what's 1160 01:03:13.239 --> 01:03:15.679 the saying the essay fortune favors the bowls? 1161 01:03:15.760 --> 01:03:22.079 Right, yeah, it's yeah, there's also, uh, what's the essays saying? 1162 01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:24.159 Yeah, that's what I was going for. 1163 01:03:24.199 --> 01:03:24.840 The essays? 1164 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:27.400 I don't remember if it's Fortune favors the Bold it's 1165 01:03:27.440 --> 01:03:28.159 something like that. 1166 01:03:28.559 --> 01:03:30.559 Yeah, it's I forget what that actually is. But I think, 1167 01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:33.239 but it's very similar to that. I think. But is 1168 01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:36.119 there any screenwriters you haven't met yet, Mike that you 1169 01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:37.760 really wanted to meet? 1170 01:03:39.800 --> 01:03:40.000 Oh? 1171 01:03:40.159 --> 01:03:41.760 I mean, I suppose there are a lot of there. 1172 01:03:41.920 --> 01:03:43.679 There are a lot of great There are a lot 1173 01:03:43.679 --> 01:03:45.920 of great writers and a lot of great screenplays out there. 1174 01:03:45.960 --> 01:03:50.000 I mean, my my favorites just you know, like you, 1175 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:53.519 Shane Black and and Andrew, Kevin Walker, Terry Ross you. 1176 01:03:53.639 --> 01:03:55.920 I mean, it's just amazing to meet them all in 1177 01:03:55.960 --> 01:04:03.480 one trip. Just just amazing. But you know, I don't 1178 01:04:03.480 --> 01:04:05.760 know if I really have an answer to that. One 1179 01:04:05.920 --> 01:04:08.440 the one of the shocking movies for me of the 1180 01:04:08.519 --> 01:04:13.000 year that didn't get a lot of press and play expensive. 1181 01:04:13.159 --> 01:04:16.280 I don't know if you've seen it, yes, Yeah, the 1182 01:04:16.320 --> 01:04:19.480 acting is terrific, that the dialogue is wonderful. It's just 1183 01:04:19.599 --> 01:04:23.239 it's a beautifully made film. It's a very simple film, 1184 01:04:24.159 --> 01:04:26.920 but the acting, the quality of the acting and the 1185 01:04:26.920 --> 01:04:31.079 writing the dialogue will just draw you in. I couldn't 1186 01:04:31.119 --> 01:04:33.119 turn the damn thing off. I sat down and started 1187 01:04:33.159 --> 01:04:35.519 watching it. I had places to go, people to see, 1188 01:04:35.519 --> 01:04:38.199 had things to do. I had no intention of watching 1189 01:04:38.199 --> 01:04:39.679 the movie. And I mean, I've fat there with my 1190 01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:44.719 jaw dropped. Found that I've been standing there fifteen minutes 1191 01:04:44.719 --> 01:04:48.119 with the remote my hand watching this thing. You know, 1192 01:04:48.199 --> 01:04:52.639 my daughter got it as a sag screener and came in. 1193 01:04:52.719 --> 01:04:56.960 And that's probably I would say that's probably acting wise 1194 01:04:57.079 --> 01:05:01.760 and script wise, probably the best film I've seen this year. 1195 01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:03.559 I don't know what it's going to do with the Oscars. 1196 01:05:03.760 --> 01:05:07.360 I suspect Denzel Washington will probably win a Best Actor. 1197 01:05:07.880 --> 01:05:11.760 Biola Davis certainly should be in the running for Best Actors. 1198 01:05:11.960 --> 01:05:14.239 I know that she had enough screen time for it, 1199 01:05:14.320 --> 01:05:17.159 but Denzel certainly should went. 1200 01:05:17.400 --> 01:05:18.159 And you know, that. 1201 01:05:18.079 --> 01:05:20.559 Movie, as they said with Deadpool, with the opening, that 1202 01:05:20.639 --> 01:05:23.559 movie is worth the price of admission if you only 1203 01:05:23.599 --> 01:05:29.039 watch the first scene where Denzel Washington is talking about death. 1204 01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:36.079 The scene is so mind blowingly great that the whole 1205 01:05:36.119 --> 01:05:38.960 movie is worth watching just for that one scene. And 1206 01:05:40.039 --> 01:05:43.880 you know, it doesn't stop there. So I can't really say, 1207 01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:48.599 you know, any one particular writer, A number of the 1208 01:05:48.639 --> 01:05:51.800 writers that I'd like to meet her dead, So you know, 1209 01:05:51.800 --> 01:05:53.840 that's kind of a kind of a bummer. 1210 01:05:53.880 --> 01:05:59.159 But as you're talking about, you know, Defences, I thought 1211 01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:01.440 it was phenomenal as well. I think you know, Denzel 1212 01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:04.039 Sole the show in that movie. You know, he just 1213 01:06:04.079 --> 01:06:10.199 plays that charismatic, tragic hero obviously because there's a lot 1214 01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:12.960 of regret in him in that man's life, in that 1215 01:06:13.039 --> 01:06:15.679 character's life. And you know, as he's sort of talking 1216 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:19.119 to everybody, everybody in one way or another, sees him 1217 01:06:19.119 --> 01:06:21.280 at his best, sees him at his worst, and it's 1218 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:23.159 sort of you know, one way or another also at 1219 01:06:23.199 --> 01:06:26.159 the butt end of his worst. And you know, his son, 1220 01:06:26.239 --> 01:06:29.199 he talks to his one son the one way his 1221 01:06:29.280 --> 01:06:31.920 other son. You know, he constantly wants more from him, 1222 01:06:31.960 --> 01:06:34.079 and he's he doesn't go about it the right way. 1223 01:06:34.199 --> 01:06:36.960 And you know, it's just a phenomenal movie. 1224 01:06:37.079 --> 01:06:40.559 Yeah, because he wants to, you know, he wants to 1225 01:06:40.599 --> 01:06:43.280 make the changes he couldn't make himself in his own 1226 01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:47.000 life in his have his son live those and and 1227 01:06:47.159 --> 01:06:52.039 also you know, excel as he did the way he did, 1228 01:06:52.920 --> 01:06:56.920 because he's getting older and he sees you know, his 1229 01:06:56.960 --> 01:06:59.639 own mortality, which we we know from telling you about that, 1230 01:07:00.079 --> 01:07:03.599 so he he you know, wants to live vicariously through 1231 01:07:03.639 --> 01:07:07.360 his son. Also, it's just an absolutely phenomenal movie. I'll 1232 01:07:07.400 --> 01:07:10.480 probably watch it again when we get off the phone. Wonderful, 1233 01:07:11.000 --> 01:07:13.440 wonderful film. I don't know if it if it kind 1234 01:07:13.480 --> 01:07:17.719 enough circulation buzz the box office to uh to win Oscars. 1235 01:07:17.719 --> 01:07:20.840 You know, the what the Oscars people pick frequently isn't 1236 01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:22.920 anything near what I think is the best. 1237 01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:27.519 And other people agree with that. But that's terrific writing. 1238 01:07:27.599 --> 01:07:29.599 The dialogue is phenomenal. Yeah. 1239 01:07:29.599 --> 01:07:33.480 So, And it's almost a self contained movie because a 1240 01:07:33.480 --> 01:07:36.719 lot of it happens in that one house. And you know, 1241 01:07:36.760 --> 01:07:38.599 I wanted to ask you too about about you know, 1242 01:07:38.639 --> 01:07:42.039 your screenplay for The Grocer, because that's completely containing self 1243 01:07:42.280 --> 01:07:44.760 you know, self contained screenplay. And that won third place 1244 01:07:44.800 --> 01:07:45.800 in the London Film Awards. 1245 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:49.440 Correct, Yeah, it won, it won third. It's won a 1246 01:07:49.440 --> 01:07:52.679 bunch of awards. It just took third at London. It's uh, 1247 01:07:52.800 --> 01:07:56.400 it's in the running in in another contest. That just 1248 01:07:56.400 --> 01:08:00.199 made another cut. The Grocer is completely contained, if one 1249 01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:04.360 hundred percent contained. It is one location the entire screenplay. 1250 01:08:06.880 --> 01:08:09.119 There there are some movies that try to do that. 1251 01:08:09.159 --> 01:08:11.880 It's very difficult to do it and carry it off 1252 01:08:11.960 --> 01:08:16.800 with a with a very entertaining movie, because a one 1253 01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:20.159 location screenplay is going to be very dialogue heavy. 1254 01:08:20.439 --> 01:08:21.239 It has to be. 1255 01:08:23.079 --> 01:08:26.079 Unless you know, you do something completely avant garde and 1256 01:08:26.119 --> 01:08:28.319 have a bunch of people sitting in a room watching 1257 01:08:28.359 --> 01:08:31.880 paint dryer ants crawl around, you know, some experimental thing. 1258 01:08:32.760 --> 01:08:36.279 You know, I'll eraserhead meet Salvador Dali or something like that. 1259 01:08:37.439 --> 01:08:39.720 You're you're gonna tend to be dialogue heavy. 1260 01:08:40.600 --> 01:08:45.000 Needles is ninety seven percent one location, which is a 1261 01:08:45.039 --> 01:08:49.039 desert saloon, which may or may not be in Needles, California, 1262 01:08:49.039 --> 01:08:56.000 in the Mojave Desert. It's it's actually purgatory, but appears otherwise. 1263 01:08:56.560 --> 01:08:57.800 And it is. 1264 01:08:59.279 --> 01:09:02.720 Only two other locations that occur as flashbacks. One is 1265 01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:09.880 a very brief flashback to gold Gotha and it's I 1266 01:09:09.920 --> 01:09:13.800 think a quarter page. And the other flashback is is 1267 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:20.279 like a Pacific Northwest, rainy mountain, rainy mountain, winding road. 1268 01:09:20.880 --> 01:09:21.680 And that's it. 1269 01:09:21.760 --> 01:09:25.680 So you know, ninety seven percent contained grocers, one hundred 1270 01:09:25.680 --> 01:09:31.159 percent contained The entire story happens at a grocery store 1271 01:09:31.159 --> 01:09:32.359 in its parking lot. 1272 01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:35.840 That's it. The one location for the whole thing. 1273 01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:37.960 And of course, you know, you hear all the time, 1274 01:09:38.000 --> 01:09:40.600 that's what everybody's looking for, is one location. You bring 1275 01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:43.159 the you bring the cats and crew in, you set 1276 01:09:43.159 --> 01:09:45.319 the date, you get everything set up and you never 1277 01:09:45.399 --> 01:09:46.319 have to move anywhere. 1278 01:09:47.920 --> 01:09:48.159 Right. 1279 01:09:48.399 --> 01:09:50.479 You look at a movie like Spy Game, for example, 1280 01:09:50.479 --> 01:09:54.960 which I love, they have, you know, Hong Kong, they 1281 01:09:55.000 --> 01:09:58.600 have you know, settings in Vietnam. 1282 01:10:00.279 --> 01:10:01.079 We'll be right. 1283 01:10:00.920 --> 01:10:07.159 Back after a word from our sponsor, and now back 1284 01:10:07.199 --> 01:10:07.680 to the show. 1285 01:10:09.600 --> 01:10:19.640 Langley, Virginia, China, Coastal China. You know it to Tony Scott, 1286 01:10:19.760 --> 01:10:23.520 you know, big, big bang, big budget, big stars, and 1287 01:10:23.560 --> 01:10:24.760 it goes all over the world. 1288 01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:28.560 The Born films do that too. Those are very expensive 1289 01:10:28.560 --> 01:10:28.880 to make. 1290 01:10:30.760 --> 01:10:33.600 And a lot of the places where films like that 1291 01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:35.720 want a film, like the Middle East, these are not 1292 01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:38.680 stable places where you can just go set up a 1293 01:10:38.680 --> 01:10:39.279 camera crew. 1294 01:10:39.359 --> 01:10:42.680 This is covered in Argo. You know, it's no secret. 1295 01:10:43.399 --> 01:10:46.159 There are a lot of places you can't film and 1296 01:10:46.279 --> 01:10:49.439 you have to try and mimic, you. 1297 01:10:49.399 --> 01:10:51.079 Know, find an other location that works. 1298 01:10:51.079 --> 01:10:53.359 Then you have to you know, if you're not filming 1299 01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:56.359 where they are, you have to build sets that make 1300 01:10:56.399 --> 01:10:57.840 it look like you're really there, and. 1301 01:10:58.279 --> 01:11:00.920 Things like that, you know, bridges, buys, they had to 1302 01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:01.760 had to. 1303 01:11:02.119 --> 01:11:06.439 Uh, they're showing Berlin being divided east and West, the 1304 01:11:06.479 --> 01:11:11.479 communists and the and the democracy and they've got the 1305 01:11:11.479 --> 01:11:13.479 they've got the wall being built right down the middle 1306 01:11:13.479 --> 01:11:16.600 of the city. I mean, that fall an incredibly expensive 1307 01:11:16.640 --> 01:11:18.960 scene to film. I turned to my wife. You know, 1308 01:11:19.039 --> 01:11:21.760 I've seen it many times. She hadn't. I turned to her. 1309 01:11:22.039 --> 01:11:24.920 Last night, we watched again. I watched it again. She 1310 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:27.079 watched it, and I said, I said, imagine the cost 1311 01:11:27.159 --> 01:11:29.399 of the scene. How many people are there, all the 1312 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:32.119 soldiers in uniforms, you know, as far as the eye 1313 01:11:32.119 --> 01:11:34.680 can see, and it's just very, very expensive. Well, it 1314 01:11:34.720 --> 01:11:40.720 contained screenplay does the exact opposite of that. It minimizes 1315 01:11:40.760 --> 01:11:47.079 your your actors. It minimizes your locations to minimalist as 1316 01:11:47.119 --> 01:11:49.840 low as you can get one location. Now that there's 1317 01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:52.319 even an extreme un contained screenplays. If you look at 1318 01:11:52.560 --> 01:11:57.039 Ryan Reynolds buried, essentially the whole movie happens with him 1319 01:11:57.039 --> 01:12:01.720 in a coffin. H That's that's as contained as you 1320 01:12:01.760 --> 01:12:06.960 can get. You're in a coffin. Okay. So but anyway, 1321 01:12:07.000 --> 01:12:11.000 that that's considered a very desirable thing these days. Hopefully 1322 01:12:11.039 --> 01:12:12.840 somebody will hear this and ask to read the script 1323 01:12:12.840 --> 01:12:15.720 and buy one of those those scripts. 1324 01:12:15.760 --> 01:12:19.199 I keep having people rave, man, this need to get made. Well, 1325 01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:20.000 I agree, with you. 1326 01:12:20.119 --> 01:12:24.439 Let's let's sell the screen, you know, contact my manager, 1327 01:12:24.479 --> 01:12:27.920 we can make a deal. But that's that's also a 1328 01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:33.560 smart way to start off for writers that want to 1329 01:12:33.760 --> 01:12:37.760 learn to develop character and get kind of be fuddled 1330 01:12:37.880 --> 01:12:40.159 or thrown off by changing locations. 1331 01:12:40.199 --> 01:12:41.479 They'll always posting my group. 1332 01:12:41.520 --> 01:12:43.000 You know, what do I do? 1333 01:12:43.439 --> 01:12:44.880 You know, how do I move the camera? 1334 01:12:45.319 --> 01:12:47.640 I have a camera, you know, in a bedroom shooting 1335 01:12:47.720 --> 01:12:49.840 out the window at stuff happening outside. 1336 01:12:49.880 --> 01:12:50.720 How do I write that? 1337 01:12:51.199 --> 01:12:53.199 You know, a lot of people get hung up on 1338 01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:55.159 all that, And that's all formatting. A lot of people 1339 01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:57.399 get hung up on that stuff. If you have a 1340 01:12:57.439 --> 01:13:01.000 single location, you can concentrate much more character, can't you. 1341 01:13:02.119 --> 01:13:05.319 Yeah, that's very true. And then with like. 1342 01:13:05.359 --> 01:13:10.039 Fences, you mentioned Fences was a play, okay, and the 1343 01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:13.039 movie the movie feels like a play when you watch 1344 01:13:13.079 --> 01:13:17.039 it very much. You know, Samuel Beckett Theater of the Absurd, 1345 01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:20.960 he has he had a play that was I think 1346 01:13:21.000 --> 01:13:22.760 half a page or a quarter of a page. 1347 01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:24.279 He has plays. 1348 01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:29.840 Where the entire play there are two people in trash 1349 01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:33.159 cans talking to each other. You talk about dialogue heavy, 1350 01:13:33.520 --> 01:13:37.479 you talk about illusions. You need to get encyclopedia out 1351 01:13:37.479 --> 01:13:39.800 and people said this about Needles. You need to get 1352 01:13:39.800 --> 01:13:43.119 an encyclopedia to understand everything going on because it's so 1353 01:13:43.760 --> 01:13:47.199 deep with illusions, because you know, they've got a talk, 1354 01:13:47.399 --> 01:13:50.000 or it's gonna just be two people with their heads 1355 01:13:50.039 --> 01:13:52.239 sticking out of trash cans. The whole thing. You know, 1356 01:13:52.279 --> 01:13:54.880 Beckett has somebody buried up to their neck and fans. 1357 01:13:54.960 --> 01:13:58.760 The whole play is one character buried up to their 1358 01:13:58.800 --> 01:13:59.399 neck and fan. 1359 01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:01.800 All you see is their head. 1360 01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:07.720 That's minimalist. Okay, well, that's what you shoot for. Maybe 1361 01:14:07.720 --> 01:14:10.560 not that extreme, because it's very hard for something like 1362 01:14:10.600 --> 01:14:11.560 that to be entertaining. 1363 01:14:11.560 --> 01:14:13.239 You have to be a master to pull that off. 1364 01:14:13.520 --> 01:14:15.920 But what you want to do if you're starting out 1365 01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:20.199 is pick a setting that you don't move from. Work 1366 01:14:20.199 --> 01:14:24.439 on developing and deepening and broadening your characters and examining 1367 01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:28.800 the moral challenges, the philosophical ideals they have as they 1368 01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:34.039 deal with whatever situation you're creating, and go ahead and 1369 01:14:35.680 --> 01:14:38.399 develop the characters and worry more about that than jumping 1370 01:14:38.399 --> 01:14:40.199 all around in like a borne. There's nothing wrong with 1371 01:14:40.239 --> 01:14:43.439 the born fields, but you know, jumping around, you know, 1372 01:14:43.520 --> 01:14:47.039 elevators and trams and planes and going all over the 1373 01:14:47.079 --> 01:14:50.760 place concentrated on the character and building develop the character. 1374 01:14:51.399 --> 01:14:54.760 There was a there's a play on Broadway called Blackbird 1375 01:14:56.159 --> 01:14:59.720 and Sandasty subject matters, say Cha, Mall Station and stuff 1376 01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:04.119 like that, but it basically has a Erica was up 1377 01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:05.920 for a role in that. I was playing I think 1378 01:15:05.920 --> 01:15:08.239 one hundred and fifty five shows at the Belasco Theaterre 1379 01:15:08.319 --> 01:15:12.239 with Michelle Williams and Jeff Daniels, and they were gonna 1380 01:15:12.239 --> 01:15:15.720 make it three Erica Bierman, and she actually got the 1381 01:15:15.720 --> 01:15:19.359 preliminary offer on that. We were waiting for the final 1382 01:15:19.359 --> 01:15:22.720 contract to come through, and the director wrote the little 1383 01:15:22.760 --> 01:15:27.640 tiny part out at the end, so they went with 1384 01:15:27.680 --> 01:15:31.600 a cast of two. The whole play is a cast 1385 01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:34.920 of two for whatever the length of a full length 1386 01:15:34.960 --> 01:15:41.560 Broadway play is. And it is a woman grown too. 1387 01:15:41.560 --> 01:15:43.159 I don't need to go into this too much, but 1388 01:15:43.399 --> 01:15:47.680 basically it's a woman grown to womanhood who was basically 1389 01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:52.359 a child, young adolescent when she was entered into a 1390 01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:57.039 sexual relationship with a guy. It's not like forcible rape, 1391 01:15:57.039 --> 01:16:00.399 but it's statutory rape. And he and up, you know, 1392 01:16:00.439 --> 01:16:02.880 living his life and having a family and the business, 1393 01:16:03.399 --> 01:16:05.880 and she actually shows up at his business years later 1394 01:16:05.880 --> 01:16:12.560 and confronts him. Oh wow, yeah, and so very very intense, 1395 01:16:13.000 --> 01:16:17.119 very dialogue driven, character driven, and very contained. 1396 01:16:17.920 --> 01:16:20.159 You've got something that is more than one location. 1397 01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:23.279 It does have more than one location, but the vast 1398 01:16:23.359 --> 01:16:26.840 majority of it is one location. And so that's the 1399 01:16:26.920 --> 01:16:31.479 kind of thing that for a play or for a film, 1400 01:16:32.039 --> 01:16:35.600 cuts your costs down dramatically. And that is what has 1401 01:16:35.640 --> 01:16:37.239 has recently of. 1402 01:16:37.279 --> 01:16:38.359 Late been in demand. 1403 01:16:39.000 --> 01:16:41.199 And you hear people screaming all the time, I want 1404 01:16:41.239 --> 01:16:42.560 contained screenplays. 1405 01:16:42.640 --> 01:16:43.880 So that's what they're talking about. 1406 01:16:44.840 --> 01:16:46.560 Yeah, you know that, that's something that I try to 1407 01:16:46.560 --> 01:16:48.760 do as well, Mike. And what the way I tried 1408 01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:51.720 to do it was, I wrote I wrote three films, 1409 01:16:51.880 --> 01:16:55.119 three screenplays out of Summer Camp. I called him my 1410 01:16:55.159 --> 01:16:58.000 Camp trilogy, and in great and so that way, you know, 1411 01:16:58.039 --> 01:16:59.720 it's kind of sort of like Finding the Thirteenth in 1412 01:16:59.720 --> 01:17:01.760 a way, you know, because always gonna be at this camp, 1413 01:17:01.800 --> 01:17:05.039 We're not really there's no big set pieces. 1414 01:17:05.000 --> 01:17:05.479 You know what I mean. 1415 01:17:05.520 --> 01:17:07.520 And it can be done, you know, where horror is 1416 01:17:07.560 --> 01:17:09.199 the sort of the main character, and you don't have 1417 01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:10.640 to you know, go out and get you know, a 1418 01:17:10.720 --> 01:17:12.359 list actors. You could just you know. 1419 01:17:12.439 --> 01:17:15.279 Happen that horror is very profitable. They can be made 1420 01:17:15.279 --> 01:17:16.840 for not a lot of money. And if you're getting 1421 01:17:16.840 --> 01:17:20.199 into contained horror where you got very few locations, that 1422 01:17:20.199 --> 01:17:21.640 should be very desirable material. 1423 01:17:21.680 --> 01:17:23.399 If it's written well, should be very marketable. 1424 01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:27.760 Yeah. So I've actually pitched a few of them, and 1425 01:17:28.520 --> 01:17:31.279 well that's a whole nother story del Thegether. But but 1426 01:17:31.319 --> 01:17:32.800 you know, but, you know, just going back to Buried, 1427 01:17:33.079 --> 01:17:35.840 you know, I agree. You know, I actually knew what 1428 01:17:35.880 --> 01:17:38.079 the whole concept was going in and I always wondered, 1429 01:17:38.159 --> 01:17:40.079 how are they going to carry this for the whole movie. 1430 01:17:40.159 --> 01:17:42.520 I was pleasantly surprised at how they carried that throughout 1431 01:17:42.520 --> 01:17:43.880 the whole movie and adding different things. 1432 01:17:43.880 --> 01:17:48.760 Well, he's acting, you know, in Deadpool, it's full of 1433 01:17:48.800 --> 01:17:51.560 all kinds of self deprecating humor, of course, and Ryan 1434 01:17:51.600 --> 01:17:54.079 Reynolds says at one point, Oh, Ryan Reynolds made it 1435 01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:56.079 this far, and it's superior acting method. You know I'm 1436 01:17:56.079 --> 01:17:59.399 talking about he's a good looking guy. Okay, Well, in 1437 01:17:59.399 --> 01:18:01.560 in Barry, he acted the hell out of it. 1438 01:18:02.560 --> 01:18:04.560 You know, you're not. You're not the best looking guy 1439 01:18:04.600 --> 01:18:05.039 in the world. 1440 01:18:05.119 --> 01:18:09.199 With a blue light, a little you know, low wattage 1441 01:18:09.319 --> 01:18:13.439 blue light in a coffin the whole screenplay that was 1442 01:18:13.520 --> 01:18:17.399 carried by his acting. He killed it. He did a 1443 01:18:17.439 --> 01:18:22.640 beautiful job acting, so you know he needed a strong 1444 01:18:22.680 --> 01:18:26.159 actor to pull off. You you put somebody who's just 1445 01:18:26.199 --> 01:18:28.199 a pretty faith in the box who can't act, and 1446 01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:28.960 you got a flop. 1447 01:18:29.079 --> 01:18:31.000 Right, Yeah, it's very true. 1448 01:18:31.920 --> 01:18:34.239 But you know, Ryan Reynolds happens to be a pretty 1449 01:18:34.319 --> 01:18:37.920 face and he also can't act, and he ended up 1450 01:18:38.000 --> 01:18:38.680 nailing that. 1451 01:18:39.199 --> 01:18:40.520 And yes, it was. 1452 01:18:40.479 --> 01:18:45.439 Engrossing from beginning to end, another film that I expected. 1453 01:18:46.000 --> 01:18:48.600 I watched it for the novelty, which I suspect you 1454 01:18:48.640 --> 01:18:51.479 did too, knowing what it was going in saying you know, 1455 01:18:51.520 --> 01:18:54.279 there's there's no way they can pull this off, and 1456 01:18:54.319 --> 01:18:57.920 then found myself via very entertained in watching the whole movie. 1457 01:18:58.520 --> 01:19:03.079 And that's that's a great example of a successful contained 1458 01:19:04.079 --> 01:19:08.079 almost completely contained. There are some other locations, but not much. 1459 01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:11.159 I think maybe three locations the whole thing. 1460 01:19:11.720 --> 01:19:14.079 Yeah, it's just Also, I made sure to go out 1461 01:19:14.079 --> 01:19:17.199 and get the screenplay because you know Scott Myers from 1462 01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:20.039 Goldenstory dot com, he was always mentioning it, and I 1463 01:19:20.079 --> 01:19:21.680 made sure to coach you got his posts about it 1464 01:19:21.680 --> 01:19:23.960 where he dissected the whole movie. I was, you know, 1465 01:19:24.000 --> 01:19:26.399 I was blown away again. You know how they were 1466 01:19:26.399 --> 01:19:27.840 able to do that, and they always The way they 1467 01:19:27.840 --> 01:19:29.960 did it obviously is they raised the stakes, you know, 1468 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:33.760 constantly adding in new twists and turns. Okay, you know 1469 01:19:33.840 --> 01:19:37.840 he has you know, well, I probably shouldn't go into 1470 01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:39.720 it because in case, everybody hasn't seen it yet. But 1471 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:40.800 but you know, it always reason. 1472 01:19:41.520 --> 01:19:43.680 It's kind of old to worry about spoilers now, but 1473 01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:47.920 I mean, yeah, you know, the one thing goes wrong 1474 01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:50.119 and then the next thing goes wrong. You know, his 1475 01:19:50.199 --> 01:19:52.439 light starts running out. I mean, you know, it just 1476 01:19:52.479 --> 01:19:56.119 goes from one thing to the next. 1477 01:19:57.319 --> 01:19:59.840 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor 1478 01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:04.720 and now back to the show. 1479 01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:11.600 And that's what you have to do in a screenplay. 1480 01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:14.119 You need to keep raising the tension. You know. 1481 01:20:14.319 --> 01:20:20.159 One of my criticisms of Manchester by the Sea is 1482 01:20:20.279 --> 01:20:23.319 I just never felt the stakes were that high, and 1483 01:20:23.439 --> 01:20:27.720 I never it just didn't feel like it was increasing tension. 1484 01:20:28.039 --> 01:20:33.800 It's a very stately paced piece. Yeah, Case the Afflet 1485 01:20:33.800 --> 01:20:37.520 did a fine job acting, so did the others, but 1486 01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:42.560 it's not a short movie and it just moves along 1487 01:20:42.640 --> 01:20:46.920 at a very very stately pace. I like the film. 1488 01:20:47.079 --> 01:20:49.600 It wasn't my favorite film of the year by far. 1489 01:20:49.680 --> 01:20:52.039 I suspect the Academy'll like it as kind of a 1490 01:20:52.079 --> 01:20:58.920 downer ending for them, but it's a film that's a 1491 01:20:58.960 --> 01:21:01.600 good example of one I didn't feel that they kept 1492 01:21:02.159 --> 01:21:04.800 raising the days they didn't have sufficient stakes. 1493 01:21:05.039 --> 01:21:08.279 Now to give you an idea of what the effect. 1494 01:21:07.880 --> 01:21:10.159 Of that is, my wife fell asleep four or five 1495 01:21:10.239 --> 01:21:13.399 times trying to watch the movie. We got a huge 1496 01:21:13.399 --> 01:21:17.319 fight because I said, I said, now's the time, let's 1497 01:21:17.319 --> 01:21:18.039 watch man Chester. 1498 01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:20.279 I said, no, I'm not watching that thing. You know, 1499 01:21:20.640 --> 01:21:21.479 I can't stay awake. 1500 01:21:21.479 --> 01:21:24.199 I said, no, No, like you, you really will get 1501 01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:24.439 in it. 1502 01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:27.159 You know, it'll have an interesting emotional. 1503 01:21:28.239 --> 01:21:32.439 Impact on you and you'll you'll get, you know, very 1504 01:21:32.439 --> 01:21:34.840 particular feeling, and I want to talk to you about it. 1505 01:21:34.920 --> 01:21:38.000 So you know, let's, you know, drink some coffee and 1506 01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:40.520 let's let's set up and watch this thing. And I've 1507 01:21:40.520 --> 01:21:42.479 watched it four times. I like it more each time 1508 01:21:42.520 --> 01:21:45.000 I watch it. And you know, let's tell one of 1509 01:21:45.039 --> 01:21:47.319 the ways that I learned to write well is by 1510 01:21:47.319 --> 01:21:51.840 watching movies. Okay, I don't it'll probably surprise you, and 1511 01:21:51.920 --> 01:21:54.640 I do not recommend this for most people. I read 1512 01:21:54.760 --> 01:21:59.000 very few screenplays by other writers. I don't go read 1513 01:21:59.039 --> 01:22:02.800 all the Oscar winning screenplays that are depending. I don't 1514 01:22:02.800 --> 01:22:04.680 do it. I watched the movies and I absorb it 1515 01:22:04.720 --> 01:22:10.720 that way. Is there a reason to read the screenplayce 1516 01:22:10.760 --> 01:22:14.680 Absolutely most screenwriters do, and I strongly recommend that people 1517 01:22:14.760 --> 01:22:17.800 start out that way. I don't think I've read more 1518 01:22:17.840 --> 01:22:23.920 than five pro scripts on produced movies. I just don't. 1519 01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:26.359 I just don't read them. I'll watch the movie. There 1520 01:22:26.479 --> 01:22:29.960 is a reason, if only to see the differences in 1521 01:22:30.039 --> 01:22:33.359 execution and planning, there's a great reason, you know, looking 1522 01:22:33.399 --> 01:22:35.720 at the spec or the shooting script and then what 1523 01:22:35.760 --> 01:22:41.119 they actually got can be a very rewarding and instructive experience. 1524 01:22:41.399 --> 01:22:42.680 It's just not something I do. 1525 01:22:42.920 --> 01:22:47.359 That's me personally, which again shows you that you know 1526 01:22:47.479 --> 01:22:50.239 there are different ways to do things and still do 1527 01:22:50.359 --> 01:22:52.960 well and get to the endpoint where you want to be. 1528 01:22:54.680 --> 01:22:57.960 There are pro writers I know that read every single 1529 01:22:58.560 --> 01:23:02.000 script for Academy Word scripts. They read every single script 1530 01:23:02.039 --> 01:23:05.880 for every blockbuster that comes out. I don't do that. 1531 01:23:06.039 --> 01:23:11.000 I would rather write natively without I'm not gonna say copying, 1532 01:23:11.079 --> 01:23:14.279 but you know, just my own way. Does that make sense? 1533 01:23:14.760 --> 01:23:18.039 Yeah, it makes perfect sense, Mike. I. You know, I 1534 01:23:18.319 --> 01:23:21.039 like to I have a whole collection of screenplays, and 1535 01:23:21.079 --> 01:23:24.079 you know, I always find that my favorite person to 1536 01:23:24.119 --> 01:23:26.760 write screenplays and my favorite author is Quentin Tarantino. I 1537 01:23:26.800 --> 01:23:29.560 just love the way he writes. I think it's entertaining. 1538 01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:33.359 And I also feel though that I also can pull 1539 01:23:33.399 --> 01:23:35.640 from the movie so if I like, for instance, I 1540 01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:38.439 have the screenplay for Hell or High Water, but I 1541 01:23:38.479 --> 01:23:41.640 actually saw the movie about three days ago before I 1542 01:23:41.680 --> 01:23:45.359 actually heard the screenplay, and I like the movie, you know, 1543 01:23:45.479 --> 01:23:48.119 just as well. And I will probably probably end up 1544 01:23:48.159 --> 01:23:49.640 reading the screenplay as well, just to see what the 1545 01:23:49.640 --> 01:23:53.399 differences are. But I really enjoyed the Hell or High Water? 1546 01:23:53.399 --> 01:23:54.079 Have you seen that yet? 1547 01:23:55.359 --> 01:23:59.359 Yes? And for you know, I don't want to say 1548 01:23:59.359 --> 01:24:00.640 anything bad about Quentin. 1549 01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:01.840 He has movies that I. 1550 01:24:01.800 --> 01:24:05.920 Absolutely love that are wonderful films, and he's a groundbreaking guy. 1551 01:24:06.840 --> 01:24:11.479 I will say, he overwrites. And you know, if you 1552 01:24:11.520 --> 01:24:18.079 look at the screenplay for Hateful eight, is I don't 1553 01:24:18.119 --> 01:24:21.560 like the film, And you know, the screenplay's one hundred 1554 01:24:21.560 --> 01:24:27.840 and eighty nine pages or somewhere thereabouts, and a lot 1555 01:24:27.880 --> 01:24:29.560 of people I talk with think he could have cut 1556 01:24:29.600 --> 01:24:35.319 an hour out of that movie. But he's also written 1557 01:24:35.359 --> 01:24:39.079 some just you know, some phenomenal stuff, you know in 1558 01:24:39.119 --> 01:24:44.840 Glorious Bastard's Reservoir Dogs, pulp fiction. I mean, he's great stuff. 1559 01:24:45.880 --> 01:24:49.359 He's another one though he's an outlier. He's he's very 1560 01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:52.520 very smart, he's very gifted. He you know, he still 1561 01:24:52.640 --> 01:24:56.960 likes screenplays out long handed, a square deal notebook. Okay, 1562 01:24:57.520 --> 01:25:01.239 So he's a different kind a guy, and he's made 1563 01:25:01.279 --> 01:25:05.439 his own path. He's not somebody that I would emulate writing, 1564 01:25:06.600 --> 01:25:09.319 because there aren't. There are a lot of people that 1565 01:25:09.399 --> 01:25:10.479 try and they just don't get. 1566 01:25:10.359 --> 01:25:11.680 Away with it. They can't pull it off. 1567 01:25:12.079 --> 01:25:15.439 He's a very difficult guy to try and copy, not 1568 01:25:15.640 --> 01:25:18.560 copy like rip off, but to try and emulate his style. 1569 01:25:19.399 --> 01:25:21.720 He's a he's a really difficult guy to do that 1570 01:25:21.880 --> 01:25:25.000 on you know there are it'd be like it'd be 1571 01:25:25.039 --> 01:25:26.880 like trying to write poetry like E. 1572 01:25:27.039 --> 01:25:27.520 Cummings. 1573 01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:29.800 You know me up it does out of the floor quietly, 1574 01:25:29.880 --> 01:25:33.560 stare a poisoned mouse, And now I lose it? 1575 01:25:33.600 --> 01:25:36.439 Who asks, you know, what have I done? You wouldn't have? 1576 01:25:36.720 --> 01:25:41.199 Okay, all in lowercase, no punctuation. You know, Cormack McCarthy, 1577 01:25:41.239 --> 01:25:45.239 same thing. Go read James Joyce, you know, go read 1578 01:25:45.279 --> 01:25:49.840 one of the Cormack McCarthy books. Where's the punctuation? Did 1579 01:25:49.880 --> 01:25:53.159 the printer lose all the period that gavas that you know, 1580 01:25:53.399 --> 01:25:55.840 there isn't any So why can he do that? 1581 01:25:55.960 --> 01:25:58.760 Well, he blazed his own way and he's phenomenal. 1582 01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:03.359 Okay, so you know, do you want to go be 1583 01:26:03.439 --> 01:26:05.399 the next corner at McCarthy and go turn a book 1584 01:26:05.399 --> 01:26:08.760 into your publisher that has no punctuation marks? Probably not 1585 01:26:08.840 --> 01:26:12.760 a good idea. It's just like copying Shane Black. There's 1586 01:26:12.800 --> 01:26:15.920 a conversation in my screenwriting group brought up by a 1587 01:26:16.000 --> 01:26:21.119 pro today this morning about how a producer wanted him 1588 01:26:21.159 --> 01:26:27.239 to add back a bunch of unshootable commentary into the 1589 01:26:27.279 --> 01:26:30.560 script that didn't have any well, traditional wisdom says, And 1590 01:26:30.640 --> 01:26:32.680 I wrote a post going to my book, you know, 1591 01:26:32.680 --> 01:26:36.600 on Sally Bigfoot. I wate this big scenario about Sally 1592 01:26:36.640 --> 01:26:40.880 Bigfoot and her family, okay, about unshootable garbage in somebody's 1593 01:26:40.920 --> 01:26:43.439 head that you can read on the page, and then 1594 01:26:43.439 --> 01:26:46.119 when ends up there, so I write this big, long 1595 01:26:46.199 --> 01:26:48.359 thing about Sally Bigfoot and it's like a page and 1596 01:26:48.359 --> 01:26:51.159 a half long, and then what somebody could actually shoot 1597 01:26:51.159 --> 01:26:55.439 from that script is like five words one line long, 1598 01:26:56.159 --> 01:26:57.760 because none of the rest is shootable. 1599 01:26:58.079 --> 01:27:00.359 Okay, Well, there was just a. 1600 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:04.800 Conversation that strangely, a producer was asking this professional, multi 1601 01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:08.880 produced guy, novelist. I'm not going to name him here 1602 01:27:09.039 --> 01:27:13.840 now for certain reasons, but this guy has multiple films 1603 01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:17.279 out and he turned in a nice titleing script. He's 1604 01:27:17.319 --> 01:27:20.159 an action writer. And the producer said, you know, this 1605 01:27:20.199 --> 01:27:22.520 is crap. What are you giving me? I'm not saying 1606 01:27:22.560 --> 01:27:24.239 he said, it's crap. Okay, he said, I'm not happy 1607 01:27:24.279 --> 01:27:28.000 with this. What are you doing here? I want a 1608 01:27:28.000 --> 01:27:31.479 bunch of commentary and other stuff you know built around here. 1609 01:27:31.520 --> 01:27:33.239 And he said, you know why you can't film any 1610 01:27:33.279 --> 01:27:33.439 of that. 1611 01:27:33.520 --> 01:27:37.159 He said, yeah, that's great. It's the exact opposite of 1612 01:27:37.239 --> 01:27:38.119 traditional wisdom. 1613 01:27:38.640 --> 01:27:40.560 Okay. 1614 01:27:40.760 --> 01:27:42.199 He think he asked to write. 1615 01:27:41.960 --> 01:27:45.640 Stuff into the script to make it longer, to entertain 1616 01:27:45.720 --> 01:27:48.520 the reader, and to try and get a particular a 1617 01:27:48.600 --> 01:27:51.760 list actor. I can't mention who they think they can 1618 01:27:51.880 --> 01:27:55.640 lure in with this particular technique by writing a bunch 1619 01:27:55.680 --> 01:27:57.640 of stuff that they will never be able to film. 1620 01:27:57.640 --> 01:28:01.640 They will not change the film script one bit, but 1621 01:28:01.760 --> 01:28:04.600 that they want in there. Now. The producer's the boss. 1622 01:28:04.680 --> 01:28:07.199 If your producer tells you to do that, then you 1623 01:28:07.279 --> 01:28:10.359 do it. And that's the right answer for that project. 1624 01:28:10.880 --> 01:28:12.760 This is why you know rules are made to be broken. 1625 01:28:13.199 --> 01:28:16.439 Quentin Tarantino broke the rule. Shane Black broke the rules. 1626 01:28:16.800 --> 01:28:19.640 Cormac McCarthy broke the rules. He Cummings broke the rules. 1627 01:28:19.680 --> 01:28:23.279 James Joyce broke the rules. Uh, there's a guy. There's 1628 01:28:23.279 --> 01:28:25.479 a guy I can't remember his name, which is sad name, 1629 01:28:25.560 --> 01:28:26.800 who wrote a novel. 1630 01:28:26.880 --> 01:28:30.000 It's also in my book called Gadsby. 1631 01:28:30.119 --> 01:28:34.720 I think it's called and this writer Sadly again, I 1632 01:28:34.720 --> 01:28:37.000 can't remember his name, but he wrote an entire novel 1633 01:28:37.039 --> 01:28:39.600 fifty thousand words without using the letter E. 1634 01:28:41.319 --> 01:28:42.159 In the whole book. 1635 01:28:44.239 --> 01:28:46.600 So it's not the Great gas it's just Gatsby. 1636 01:28:47.239 --> 01:28:51.600 No, it's Gadsby. Oh Gadsby, It's like Gadsby. 1637 01:28:52.079 --> 01:28:53.680 So he managed to write. 1638 01:28:54.039 --> 01:28:56.760 He managed to write an entire novel without using the 1639 01:28:56.920 --> 01:29:00.760 letter E in any word inside the covers. It appears 1640 01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:03.920 on the cover as they describe what he's done. Because 1641 01:29:04.000 --> 01:29:06.399 if you use the word novel, it is an e obviously, 1642 01:29:06.479 --> 01:29:08.479 So no, when they say, oh, this guy wrote a 1643 01:29:08.479 --> 01:29:10.760 novel without the letter E. Well, then you've used several 1644 01:29:10.800 --> 01:29:13.800 e's avenue on the cover. But if you go to 1645 01:29:14.000 --> 01:29:18.399 the actual story itself inside, nowhere does the letter HE appear. 1646 01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:21.159 Now you talk about writer's block, and that's that's what 1647 01:29:21.239 --> 01:29:23.439 my essay was about. Next time you think you have 1648 01:29:23.520 --> 01:29:27.680 writer's block. I've written a number of these. You know, 1649 01:29:27.720 --> 01:29:29.319 look at what Lucretius wrote. 1650 01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:30.760 They rare. 1651 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:33.119 I'm not sure on the nature of things, this epic 1652 01:29:33.159 --> 01:29:36.560 poem that this guy wrote, you know, in a toga 1653 01:29:36.600 --> 01:29:39.680 in a cave with a candle, using squid ink in 1654 01:29:39.720 --> 01:29:43.640 a feather pen, and the type of Einsteiny and physics 1655 01:29:43.640 --> 01:29:47.800 and philosophy. You know, the incredible deep thinking this guy 1656 01:29:47.880 --> 01:29:52.359 did under these conditions. Abraham Lincoln studied law by candle. Okay, 1657 01:29:52.399 --> 01:29:56.680 that's that's that's tough. Okay. Uh, this guy did it, 1658 01:29:56.720 --> 01:29:58.199 you know, in like fifty four BC. 1659 01:30:00.079 --> 01:30:02.560 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 1660 01:30:06.159 --> 01:30:07.720 and now back to the show. 1661 01:30:09.000 --> 01:30:11.439 Writing in squid ink and he's talking about where the 1662 01:30:11.520 --> 01:30:14.960 universe ends. I mean, really, so you want to you 1663 01:30:15.000 --> 01:30:18.279 want to talk about writer's block, Uh, do something that's 1664 01:30:18.359 --> 01:30:22.159 that's a remarkable achievement, but certainly less than than that. 1665 01:30:22.800 --> 01:30:26.159 Look at at this Gad Gadspy book and again it's 1666 01:30:26.159 --> 01:30:26.960 going to be in my book. 1667 01:30:27.000 --> 01:30:31.199 But the guy writes the whole novel without the letter. 1668 01:30:31.560 --> 01:30:34.960 Next time you think you have writer's block, imagine writing 1669 01:30:35.039 --> 01:30:37.439 a novel without using one of the letters of the 1670 01:30:37.439 --> 01:30:38.640 alphabet a vowel. 1671 01:30:40.920 --> 01:30:42.119 Yeah, And I want to link to that in the 1672 01:30:42.119 --> 01:30:45.640 show notes as well. Actually, uh, I'm gonna about that 1673 01:30:45.680 --> 01:30:49.159 about that novel too, Mike, because that is uh. 1674 01:30:49.640 --> 01:30:51.520 I don't know if I don't get you the info 1675 01:30:51.640 --> 01:30:51.920 on him. 1676 01:30:52.119 --> 01:30:53.319 Well, I was gonna look it up to when I 1677 01:30:53.319 --> 01:30:54.640 put it in the show notes because I you know, 1678 01:30:55.000 --> 01:30:57.520 I I don't know if that if that's an exercise 1679 01:30:57.560 --> 01:31:02.359 in bravery or or it just admit complete madness. Maybe 1680 01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:04.960 maybe both, right, but uh. 1681 01:31:04.640 --> 01:31:07.760 I think it's the next It's brave and it's also stubborn. 1682 01:31:07.840 --> 01:31:10.840 I mean, you've got to be let me see something 1683 01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:13.000 fine for you. 1684 01:31:12.119 --> 01:31:15.159 You've got to be mentally tough. 1685 01:31:16.680 --> 01:31:20.720 Too. It's gadsby G. A. 1686 01:31:21.000 --> 01:31:26.479 Dsb Y nineteen thirty nine by Ernest Vincent Wright with 1687 01:31:27.119 --> 01:31:28.319 W R I G H T. 1688 01:31:28.880 --> 01:31:29.159 Now. 1689 01:31:30.079 --> 01:31:32.880 The sad thing is, you know nobody remembers this guy's name, 1690 01:31:33.039 --> 01:31:33.920 Ernest Vincent Wright. 1691 01:31:34.000 --> 01:31:35.279 So did he take a gamble? 1692 01:31:35.840 --> 01:31:37.880 You bet he did. He turned a novel into his 1693 01:31:37.920 --> 01:31:41.479 publisher with no ease in it. That's a gamble, okay. 1694 01:31:43.199 --> 01:31:47.000 And did his gamble payoff? I don't know what's the payoff? 1695 01:31:47.079 --> 01:31:50.760 His book got published. You can still read the book today, 1696 01:31:51.079 --> 01:31:53.880 you can. It's it's a novelty item. You can go 1697 01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:56.000 look it up and say, holy smokes, how does this 1698 01:31:56.039 --> 01:31:58.880 guy do this? And go skim the text? And he 1699 01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:01.479 doesn't read like a tradition book because he can't use 1700 01:32:01.600 --> 01:32:05.640 the word e He's got to write very strange, you know, 1701 01:32:06.319 --> 01:32:09.119 circuitous roots to avoid using ease. 1702 01:32:10.600 --> 01:32:11.880 Was he a success? I don't know. 1703 01:32:11.920 --> 01:32:15.319 I couldn't remember his name and I'm a writer. His 1704 01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:22.800 family didn't renew his copyright really, so yeah, I mean, 1705 01:32:23.039 --> 01:32:25.640 none of his heirs after he died, none of his 1706 01:32:25.760 --> 01:32:29.800 copyright ran. None of his heirs cared enough to pay 1707 01:32:29.840 --> 01:32:34.479 the copyright feast to recopyright re up the novel. 1708 01:32:35.199 --> 01:32:40.199 Jesus, I know. So that's amazing. You know, you know, 1709 01:32:40.199 --> 01:32:42.199 we were talking about copyright stuff, and you know one 1710 01:32:42.239 --> 01:32:44.239 of the things that you mentioned too in the group, 1711 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:47.359 you know, as you talked about copyrighting was about you know, 1712 01:32:47.520 --> 01:32:50.560 about the WGA and also about you know, the US 1713 01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.520 Patent Office, the Copyright Office, and I mean, you know, 1714 01:32:53.600 --> 01:32:57.520 all of that is is really good stuff. And when 1715 01:32:57.560 --> 01:33:00.479 I hear stuff like this happening, because I when I 1716 01:33:00.479 --> 01:33:02.720 hear stuff like this happened, or where I hear stuff 1717 01:33:02.720 --> 01:33:04.640 like you know what happened with Georgia Merrow and and 1718 01:33:04.640 --> 01:33:08.560 and the original Living Dead, I mean, you realize just 1719 01:33:08.640 --> 01:33:10.199 how important all this stuff is. 1720 01:33:11.359 --> 01:33:13.840 Yeah, and that's another thing most uh, you know my 1721 01:33:13.880 --> 01:33:16.720 book will help with that. Shamelessly plugging the book yet again, 1722 01:33:16.760 --> 01:33:20.760 but I mean the I I'm I'm involved in the 1723 01:33:20.800 --> 01:33:24.720 project where they had they had some issues because somebody 1724 01:33:24.760 --> 01:33:28.479 tried to steal the project. There are other in my 1725 01:33:28.640 --> 01:33:31.359 in a year or so in my group, there have 1726 01:33:31.439 --> 01:33:33.880 been I used to have them written down something like 1727 01:33:33.920 --> 01:33:37.439 between nine and a dozen stolen scripts where people have 1728 01:33:37.560 --> 01:33:40.319 actually come in and said, you know, my script got 1729 01:33:40.359 --> 01:33:44.560 stolen and actually had some kind of substantial evidence in 1730 01:33:44.560 --> 01:33:48.159 and significant data and. 1731 01:33:48.199 --> 01:33:49.119 Story behind it. 1732 01:33:49.239 --> 01:33:51.800 Not just like oh I wrote a script and don't 1733 01:33:51.960 --> 01:33:54.560 damn that Star Wars they stole my script. No, nothing 1734 01:33:54.640 --> 01:34:00.359 like that, like actual matching dialogue. And I've had a happened. 1735 01:34:00.640 --> 01:34:02.960 I've had happen to me. I won't say who. 1736 01:34:03.000 --> 01:34:05.840 I had another writer take some stuff from one of 1737 01:34:05.840 --> 01:34:06.399 my scripts. 1738 01:34:07.319 --> 01:34:13.359 And there are, you know, in a group of less 1739 01:34:13.359 --> 01:34:16.600 than three thousand people. And it wasn't three thousand the 1740 01:34:16.640 --> 01:34:20.880 whole time the group started at one. Me, it's not advertising. 1741 01:34:20.920 --> 01:34:25.399 I reject about ninety percent of applicants. But in that 1742 01:34:25.560 --> 01:34:30.640 small group, in one year, we've got somewhere approaching a 1743 01:34:30.680 --> 01:34:35.800 dozen stolen scripts where people someone ripped off somebody else's work. 1744 01:34:36.039 --> 01:34:38.840 And there are trolls that go in these groups. That's 1745 01:34:38.840 --> 01:34:41.399 why I've got people very careful about this. They're trolls 1746 01:34:41.399 --> 01:34:43.560 that go in groups and they'll say, you know, producer, 1747 01:34:43.720 --> 01:34:46.680 looking for someone to write our story, and you know, 1748 01:34:46.760 --> 01:34:50.760 we need you to submit ten pages. Well what they 1749 01:34:50.800 --> 01:34:53.520 do is, you know, and then we'll judge and we'll 1750 01:34:53.520 --> 01:34:56.840 pick who's going to get the writing assignment. Well, Dave, 1751 01:34:56.840 --> 01:35:01.199 who gets the writing assignment? Tell me, guests they're running assignment. 1752 01:35:01.840 --> 01:35:06.119 They they assigned the ten pages that say it's the 1753 01:35:06.119 --> 01:35:09.760 one hundred page screenplay, so that's ten ten page divisions. 1754 01:35:10.319 --> 01:35:13.680 They assign it to twenty writers, so they have they 1755 01:35:13.800 --> 01:35:15.880 put up an ad in the group for you know, 1756 01:35:15.920 --> 01:35:17.680 no money. This is year you have to prove to 1757 01:35:17.760 --> 01:35:20.600 us who you are. You're gonna write ten pages. We'll 1758 01:35:20.600 --> 01:35:22.600 tell you what to write, and then we'll get back 1759 01:35:22.720 --> 01:35:25.840 if if we like it. Well, keep holding your breath. 1760 01:35:25.840 --> 01:35:27.560 We'll call you blue boy. You'll be in the corner 1761 01:35:27.680 --> 01:35:30.720 turning blue because they're never gonna call you no matter 1762 01:35:30.760 --> 01:35:33.039 how good you were, because what's gonna happen. They don't 1763 01:35:33.039 --> 01:35:35.720 have any money, and what's gonna happen is they're not 1764 01:35:35.760 --> 01:35:38.520 really looking to hire a writer. They're looking to steal writing. 1765 01:35:39.000 --> 01:35:44.920 So they give each they give ten ten scenes they 1766 01:35:44.920 --> 01:35:47.680 want written ten pages. Kind of a simplistic example, but 1767 01:35:47.720 --> 01:35:50.479 I'm making it easy for the math. One hundred page script, 1768 01:35:50.479 --> 01:35:53.920 they divide it into ten segments, however many scenes each. 1769 01:35:53.960 --> 01:35:57.479 You know, script's typically sixty eighty scenes. But let's stick 1770 01:35:57.520 --> 01:36:00.840 with this example. So you know, you're gonna write these 1771 01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:04.039 ten pages for us, and they give that same pages 1772 01:36:04.079 --> 01:36:07.319 to the same ten pages to two writers. Then they 1773 01:36:07.359 --> 01:36:11.039 take the next you know, eleven to twenty, and they 1774 01:36:11.039 --> 01:36:13.439 give that to two more writers, and they do the 1775 01:36:13.439 --> 01:36:15.640 same thing all the way down the line, so they 1776 01:36:15.680 --> 01:36:21.640 have twenty writers writing their one hundred page script twice, 1777 01:36:22.199 --> 01:36:24.640 so they What they then do is they then. 1778 01:36:24.560 --> 01:36:28.640 Pick through it all. They pick what they like, what 1779 01:36:28.720 --> 01:36:29.319 they don't like. 1780 01:36:29.720 --> 01:36:32.319 They throw it all together and they have maybe even 1781 01:36:32.359 --> 01:36:34.920 that guy rewrite the whole thing, the whole script sitting 1782 01:36:34.960 --> 01:36:37.479 they're written for him. They just rewrite it, pick what 1783 01:36:37.520 --> 01:36:39.159 they like, pick well that was the guy had a 1784 01:36:39.199 --> 01:36:43.119 great idea. Well, you know we'll keep that. We're screwing him, 1785 01:36:43.159 --> 01:36:46.560 so why not keep it. And then they get the 1786 01:36:46.560 --> 01:36:50.359 whole script written for him that only need to rewrite, 1787 01:36:50.560 --> 01:36:54.720 and they pay nothing. And you know, these people aren't scrupulous. 1788 01:36:54.800 --> 01:36:57.880 This happens all the time in writing groups. You know, 1789 01:36:58.000 --> 01:37:03.000 send me a writing sample, send me, send me, you know, 1790 01:37:03.159 --> 01:37:06.439 ten pages of my original script. Here's the story. You 1791 01:37:06.760 --> 01:37:09.640 give me the first ten pages, so you know those 1792 01:37:09.640 --> 01:37:13.720 are those are all pitfalls, not copywriting. You want to 1793 01:37:13.760 --> 01:37:17.399 register with w g A you got an extra twenty bucks. Sure, 1794 01:37:17.840 --> 01:37:22.520 register with WGA. Is your script copyright protected? Absolutely not. 1795 01:37:23.319 --> 01:37:27.479 WGA serves a lot of good functions. The script Registry 1796 01:37:27.760 --> 01:37:31.279 is uh does not take the place of copyright. It's 1797 01:37:31.359 --> 01:37:36.119 it's it's the It works as some evidence of when 1798 01:37:36.199 --> 01:37:39.479 something was created, not a copyright. Don't even get into 1799 01:37:39.560 --> 01:37:43.920 federal court with a WJA registration on a copyright case. So, 1800 01:37:45.119 --> 01:37:48.359 you know, beginning writers need to learn that kind of stuff. 1801 01:37:49.920 --> 01:37:52.159 And a lot of it's counterintuitive, a lot of it. 1802 01:37:52.439 --> 01:37:54.479 You know, people aren't going to tell you. They don't know. 1803 01:37:54.520 --> 01:37:56.760 There's a lot of terrible information. 1804 01:37:56.840 --> 01:37:59.079 I'll do it here. I'll kill the poor man's copyright 1805 01:37:59.119 --> 01:38:02.399 for you. Tell me it's copyright, write your script, fold 1806 01:38:02.399 --> 01:38:04.840 it up, seal it up really well in an envelope, 1807 01:38:04.840 --> 01:38:06.640 and mail it to yourself and there now your a 1808 01:38:06.680 --> 01:38:10.840 year protected right. No, absolutely not does nothing. It's never 1809 01:38:10.880 --> 01:38:13.760 protected anybody in any court that I can I can name, 1810 01:38:14.199 --> 01:38:17.720 or that anyone I know can name. It's absolutely worthless. 1811 01:38:18.000 --> 01:38:20.840 And yet this myth of the poor man's copyright persists. 1812 01:38:21.359 --> 01:38:23.399 These are things that you need to learn, and and 1813 01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:28.720 books like you know, David Trottier, Dave Trottier's Screenwriter's Bible 1814 01:38:28.880 --> 01:38:31.119 and others will address some of this stuff for you. 1815 01:38:31.720 --> 01:38:33.760 So you think you're going to be a screenwriter, spend 1816 01:38:33.840 --> 01:38:38.560 twenty bucks by a book, read it or's something. Yeah, 1817 01:38:38.800 --> 01:38:40.880 And I get into arguments. I get an arguments to 1818 01:38:40.960 --> 01:38:43.680 people in my group. I'm a I'm a lawyer and 1819 01:38:43.720 --> 01:38:46.079 they want to argue with me about the law. Hey, 1820 01:38:46.119 --> 01:38:47.560 tell me I'm wrong. I had somebody do it a 1821 01:38:47.600 --> 01:38:50.560 couple of days ago. She was, she was somebody asked 1822 01:38:51.359 --> 01:38:55.199 a question that ran into legal territory and didn't ask 1823 01:38:55.239 --> 01:38:56.680 it to me, just threw it up in the group. 1824 01:38:56.680 --> 01:38:58.520 And I'm not this person's lawyer, but you know, I 1825 01:38:58.560 --> 01:39:01.920 can give you throughout general advice to writers and stuff. 1826 01:39:02.279 --> 01:39:05.079 So I answered the question and she's like. 1827 01:39:05.159 --> 01:39:08.319 Contradicting my answer with the complete wrong answer. So I 1828 01:39:08.399 --> 01:39:10.840 tried to gently guide her back and now, no, no, 1829 01:39:10.880 --> 01:39:12.479 look at it, it's really this way right, And she 1830 01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:17.000 told me I was wrong. So you know, you really 1831 01:39:17.640 --> 01:39:22.199 writers need to have a basic understanding of certain things 1832 01:39:22.279 --> 01:39:25.039 just to survive and be viable. The writing is a 1833 01:39:25.079 --> 01:39:27.920 strange occupation. You have to be able to actually write stuff. 1834 01:39:28.239 --> 01:39:31.159 But then there's the business end of writing, which is 1835 01:39:31.239 --> 01:39:38.960 completely different from the creation end of writing. And again, 1836 01:39:39.039 --> 01:39:41.239 like David Trottier's book, and you know other books, they 1837 01:39:41.399 --> 01:39:45.880 actually will talk about both, and you Linda Ayrinson's book 1838 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:51.079 talks talks about you know, completely story story theory and 1839 01:39:52.159 --> 01:39:54.760 structure and plotting the whole book. 1840 01:39:54.920 --> 01:39:56.119 Genius genius book. 1841 01:39:56.439 --> 01:39:59.359 Rick Toskin's book talks about playwriting seminars too. 1842 01:40:00.000 --> 01:40:01.600 He talks a lot about the business. 1843 01:40:02.960 --> 01:40:05.479 We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor, 1844 01:40:09.079 --> 01:40:10.640 and now back to the show. 1845 01:40:12.000 --> 01:40:16.119 And his very practical guide. He analyzes plays, he bridges 1846 01:40:16.159 --> 01:40:19.600 the gap between playwriting and screenwriting. And then he talks 1847 01:40:19.640 --> 01:40:23.520 about the business of you know, Okay, you're sitting in 1848 01:40:23.560 --> 01:40:28.079 your in your room over your garage in Kenesaw, Georgia, 1849 01:40:28.199 --> 01:40:31.039 churning out this stuff. Isn't it great? Oh? You love it? 1850 01:40:31.039 --> 01:40:32.960 And what are you gonna do with it? No one's 1851 01:40:33.000 --> 01:40:36.279 ever gonna read it if it doesn't leave the garage, right, Yeah, 1852 01:40:36.720 --> 01:40:39.920 very true. So there's a business set. And if you're 1853 01:40:40.359 --> 01:40:43.000 let's say you're an idiot savat, let's say you're you know, 1854 01:40:43.199 --> 01:40:46.840 a beautiful mind, you're this gifted mathematician, or you know, 1855 01:40:47.119 --> 01:40:49.680 if this guy was in a cave in Afghanistan scribbling 1856 01:40:49.680 --> 01:40:52.760 the most brilliant mathematics anyone had ever seen, all over 1857 01:40:52.800 --> 01:40:58.560 the cave walls, using you know, burnt bone and uh, 1858 01:40:58.960 --> 01:41:02.319 scratching with a and you know, highlighting with a with 1859 01:41:02.399 --> 01:41:07.479 a piece of u ashed out stick and a little 1860 01:41:07.520 --> 01:41:08.880 blood dot here and there. 1861 01:41:09.359 --> 01:41:10.600 No one's ever going to see it. 1862 01:41:10.760 --> 01:41:15.960 Right, So the most brilliant mathematician in the world, no 1863 01:41:16.039 --> 01:41:18.119 one knows who he is, he ends up, you know, 1864 01:41:18.520 --> 01:41:21.960 he he demises, and then you know, three thousand years later, 1865 01:41:22.000 --> 01:41:24.760 someone finds his cave art and recognizes at his high 1866 01:41:24.840 --> 01:41:29.800 level mathematics, which is wonderful. And you know everyone else, 1867 01:41:29.920 --> 01:41:32.960 all the uninformed, think it's cave art. You know, look 1868 01:41:33.000 --> 01:41:36.319 at this, Let that some let add some fags to this. 1869 01:41:36.439 --> 01:41:38.560 Right, and modifying the formulas. 1870 01:41:38.720 --> 01:41:42.800 Okay, so you know there's a business send to this too, 1871 01:41:42.880 --> 01:41:45.560 unless you're going to be a pure hobbyist and just 1872 01:41:45.640 --> 01:41:49.399 write this stuff for your wife or your spouse, your grandma, 1873 01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:52.000 your dad, your mom. Oh look how great this is. 1874 01:41:53.039 --> 01:41:55.760 Give it to your kids. There there needs to be 1875 01:41:55.800 --> 01:42:00.279 a goal, and that's the business end. And so like 1876 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:03.960 the books like I said, Playwriting Seminars to two point 1877 01:42:04.039 --> 01:42:08.960 zero and the Screenwriter's Guide, a Screenwriter's Bible, those are 1878 01:42:08.960 --> 01:42:12.520 books that discuss the business end as well. Okay, books 1879 01:42:12.640 --> 01:42:16.399 like Aaronson's is, you know, focused all on structure and 1880 01:42:16.439 --> 01:42:23.000 plot and story function, character function and all those things 1881 01:42:23.439 --> 01:42:27.920 to an extreme depth, like biblical depth. It's that in depth, 1882 01:42:28.399 --> 01:42:31.039 but it really doesn't. There's some in there, but it 1883 01:42:31.039 --> 01:42:33.760 really doesn't approach the business as much. Your cut too 1884 01:42:33.800 --> 01:42:34.640 is showing by T. 1885 01:42:34.640 --> 01:42:34.920 TJ. 1886 01:42:35.039 --> 01:42:37.439 Alex I recommend. I think there's a little business in 1887 01:42:37.479 --> 01:42:39.319 there too, but that's not why I go to that book. 1888 01:42:39.560 --> 01:42:43.479 So you know, you need to learn you need to 1889 01:42:43.520 --> 01:42:45.119 learn the business stuff too. And that bridge is a 1890 01:42:45.159 --> 01:42:48.239 knife gap to contest, which you mentioned earlier. 1891 01:42:48.319 --> 01:42:48.560 Right. 1892 01:42:49.640 --> 01:42:52.319 Yeah, And one thing I want to ask Mike is 1893 01:42:53.000 --> 01:42:55.000 have you ever I mean I wanted to obviously ask 1894 01:42:55.079 --> 01:42:58.840 this because you know we're talking about books again. Have 1895 01:42:59.000 --> 01:43:00.880 you ever read any of the like the Big three 1896 01:43:01.000 --> 01:43:02.920 or four books that sort of come across you know, 1897 01:43:02.960 --> 01:43:05.880 everyone sort of comes across them, and those books obviously 1898 01:43:05.960 --> 01:43:10.760 screenplay by sid Field, Uh, save the Save the Cat Story? 1899 01:43:10.920 --> 01:43:12.560 Have you read any of those books? 1900 01:43:14.079 --> 01:43:15.760 Let me be as fair as I can be. I 1901 01:43:16.039 --> 01:43:22.920 I read Save the Cat. Save the Cat is an approach. 1902 01:43:23.000 --> 01:43:27.239 It's extremely formulaic. You need to know it because a 1903 01:43:27.279 --> 01:43:31.039 lot of studio execs will be expecting, you know, Save 1904 01:43:31.079 --> 01:43:33.560 the Cat story beats and they'll go to, you know, 1905 01:43:33.680 --> 01:43:37.760 page sixty seven of your script, page twelve of your script, 1906 01:43:37.840 --> 01:43:42.039 page you know twenty four of your script, page five 1907 01:43:42.079 --> 01:43:44.760 of your script, and they're going to be looking for story. 1908 01:43:44.960 --> 01:43:48.680 Save the cat, story beats that. Blake Snyder, by all, 1909 01:43:48.720 --> 01:43:54.640 by all reports a wonderful guy who died young. It's 1910 01:43:54.640 --> 01:43:56.399 a shame. Supposed to be a great. 1911 01:43:56.239 --> 01:43:58.239 Guy, and he wrote two of the worst movies ever written. 1912 01:43:59.079 --> 01:44:02.159 You know, blank check or shoot a Stop or my 1913 01:44:02.239 --> 01:44:05.920 Mom Will Shoot, which could have torpedoes of uster. Stallone's 1914 01:44:05.960 --> 01:44:08.560 career dodged a bullet on that one. So you know. 1915 01:44:10.439 --> 01:44:14.600 That book was an analysis done by Snyder over a 1916 01:44:14.600 --> 01:44:17.399 great deal of time looking at looking for a formula 1917 01:44:17.520 --> 01:44:20.880 common theme as thread running through the most successful and 1918 01:44:21.039 --> 01:44:24.560 admired movies, and he distilled it down into a formula, 1919 01:44:24.720 --> 01:44:27.600 just like a log line formula distills everything down and 1920 01:44:27.680 --> 01:44:29.600 you start plugging your stuff in to get a good 1921 01:44:29.640 --> 01:44:34.600 log line. Well, at some point, not every film has 1922 01:44:34.640 --> 01:44:36.600 a log line. You can write with a standard log 1923 01:44:36.640 --> 01:44:40.880 line formula. Once you understand what you're trying to accomplish, 1924 01:44:40.880 --> 01:44:43.159 you may want to vary from the formula for a 1925 01:44:43.199 --> 01:44:46.359 particular project because you may not be able to capture 1926 01:44:46.600 --> 01:44:49.119 the log line well in twenty five words written, you 1927 01:44:49.159 --> 01:44:53.199 know so and so must do this, or you know 1928 01:44:53.520 --> 01:44:57.520 and beat such and such villain or this will happen, 1929 01:44:57.880 --> 01:45:00.800 you know, blah blah. Okay, so that may not be 1930 01:45:00.880 --> 01:45:04.920 the best approach for a movie that that you're working on. 1931 01:45:05.439 --> 01:45:08.600 And so yeah, I've read Save the Cat. I think 1932 01:45:08.960 --> 01:45:11.159 Save the Cat tends to put writers in a box 1933 01:45:12.760 --> 01:45:17.399 and it makes you stick to story beats that people 1934 01:45:17.439 --> 01:45:19.399 pull their hair out. Oh my god, I added a 1935 01:45:19.479 --> 01:45:26.159 scene in my Save the Cat moment, my dark Night 1936 01:45:26.199 --> 01:45:29.119 of the Soul moment moved and now it's you know, 1937 01:45:29.199 --> 01:45:30.359 for pages past. 1938 01:45:30.159 --> 01:45:31.000 Where it's supposed to be. 1939 01:45:31.000 --> 01:45:33.279 Oh my god, I'm gonna jump off the roof. No, 1940 01:45:33.960 --> 01:45:39.399 tell your story, Tell your story and learn what Save 1941 01:45:39.479 --> 01:45:41.720 the Cat is. In case you have somebody that really 1942 01:45:41.760 --> 01:45:44.800 wants the beats to line up and you're writing for them, 1943 01:45:44.840 --> 01:45:46.960 well then maybe you've got to break out Save the Cat. 1944 01:45:47.359 --> 01:45:49.640 As far as the other ones, you know, did Field 1945 01:45:49.640 --> 01:45:52.720 and all, I've started to read some of them. I 1946 01:45:52.800 --> 01:45:56.359 find a lot of their stuff. Yes they're acknowledged the experts. 1947 01:45:56.439 --> 01:45:58.399 Yes they're much better known than I am. Of course, 1948 01:45:58.840 --> 01:46:03.000 I'm just a guy. You know, they're famous. Well, a 1949 01:46:03.000 --> 01:46:05.439 lot of their stuff is very philosophical and kind of 1950 01:46:05.439 --> 01:46:07.600 hard to put your finger on exactly what they're saying, 1951 01:46:07.600 --> 01:46:10.199 and how do I apply this to my script? So 1952 01:46:11.079 --> 01:46:12.520 you know, I look at some of the stuff and 1953 01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:16.840 didn't find it immediately helpful, so I ignored it. I 1954 01:46:16.960 --> 01:46:22.720 taught myself, and you know that's you know, there are conventions, 1955 01:46:22.800 --> 01:46:24.880 there are rules, and once you learn them, you can 1956 01:46:24.920 --> 01:46:26.760 also learn to break them and get away with it 1957 01:46:26.800 --> 01:46:27.920 if you know what you're doing. 1958 01:46:29.319 --> 01:46:30.319 And as far as. 1959 01:46:30.159 --> 01:46:35.119 Those guys go, some of the most most well read writers, 1960 01:46:35.159 --> 01:46:38.000 screenwriters I know that have read every single one of 1961 01:46:38.039 --> 01:46:40.760 those books. They can quote you from the books and 1962 01:46:40.800 --> 01:46:43.520 tell you what page number is on They've never written 1963 01:46:43.520 --> 01:46:47.000 a good script. There was there was one guy in 1964 01:46:47.079 --> 01:46:50.199 my group who's no longer a member, who's any social guy. 1965 01:46:50.279 --> 01:46:57.439 Threw him out, But that's an aside, and he just 1966 01:46:57.640 --> 01:47:04.079 incredible knowledge on all these all these writers theories, and 1967 01:47:04.760 --> 01:47:08.520 you know all you know McKee and Fidfield and you 1968 01:47:08.520 --> 01:47:15.439 know every other uh, every other theoretical uh theoretician on storytelling. 1969 01:47:15.880 --> 01:47:18.159 And by the way, Aaronson also. 1970 01:47:18.000 --> 01:47:20.079 Is big on that, except she wrote a book that's 1971 01:47:20.119 --> 01:47:21.920 a very practical nuts and bolts guide. 1972 01:47:21.920 --> 01:47:25.000 That is is it's not all just theory. It's loaded 1973 01:47:25.000 --> 01:47:26.960 with theory, but it gives you. 1974 01:47:28.399 --> 01:47:31.920 Guidelines to actually fix the engine. Okay, they tell you 1975 01:47:31.960 --> 01:47:34.359 how to build the engine, tell you what the engine is, 1976 01:47:34.399 --> 01:47:36.199 and then it'll let you put the engine together. 1977 01:47:36.520 --> 01:47:39.399 A lot of these guys will say, let's talk about. 1978 01:47:39.119 --> 01:47:42.039 An engine, and you know, before long you're sitting there 1979 01:47:42.039 --> 01:47:45.479 in a yoga position, staring out at a little plant 1980 01:47:45.479 --> 01:47:49.479 growing by itself in the desert. Okay, like then in 1981 01:47:49.520 --> 01:47:53.119 the art of motorcycle maintenance, right, yeah, So you know, 1982 01:47:53.439 --> 01:47:56.960 there's practical and there's impractical, and there's there are people 1983 01:47:56.960 --> 01:47:58.760 that write all kinds of great stuff and I can't 1984 01:47:58.800 --> 01:48:01.680 I'm not knocking these these great you know, well known 1985 01:48:01.720 --> 01:48:05.439 philosophical guys like the Key and Field. I haven't read them. 1986 01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:07.680 I've skinned little bits of him and said, you know what, 1987 01:48:09.079 --> 01:48:12.520 this isn't answering my question, or this isn't for me, 1988 01:48:13.159 --> 01:48:15.960 and maybe for you. I'm not saying it isn't for you. 1989 01:48:16.039 --> 01:48:18.439 It could well be for you. My book isn't going 1990 01:48:18.479 --> 01:48:23.600 to be for everybody. That's for damn sure. So you know, 1991 01:48:23.720 --> 01:48:26.560 find your approach that works and stick to it. But 1992 01:48:26.680 --> 01:48:28.439 the guy that I was talking about a minute ago, 1993 01:48:29.000 --> 01:48:32.479 he bloviated endlessly in the group and everything. Oh this 1994 01:48:32.560 --> 01:48:36.600 guy knows everything. Oh my god, he's the best expert anywhere, 1995 01:48:37.199 --> 01:48:38.439 and he really didn't know a lot. 1996 01:48:38.520 --> 01:48:39.840 It was incredibly impressive. 1997 01:48:39.880 --> 01:48:41.199 And then one day he came into the group and 1998 01:48:41.239 --> 01:48:44.000 he said, I've been doing this twenty years and I've 1999 01:48:44.119 --> 01:48:49.319 never finished a script. Can you guys help me. I'm 2000 01:48:49.359 --> 01:48:54.800 not kidding. I could show you the post. I mean, 2001 01:48:56.119 --> 01:48:59.920 so this guy, this guy could quit you chapter and 2002 01:49:00.159 --> 01:49:04.159 verse from Sidfield McKee, from any any but you know, 2003 01:49:04.239 --> 01:49:07.119 the the hero's journey. 2004 01:49:07.159 --> 01:49:08.479 You know all the different. 2005 01:49:10.199 --> 01:49:14.159 Theories and story methods of writing, and there are a 2006 01:49:14.239 --> 01:49:16.399 lot of different people that have you know, the two 2007 01:49:16.479 --> 01:49:18.960 hundred and thirty seven steps of the Hero and all 2008 01:49:19.000 --> 01:49:22.319 these other approaches. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong 2009 01:49:22.359 --> 01:49:24.760 with those. They may be the best thing ever for you, 2010 01:49:24.960 --> 01:49:26.000 but they may not work for me. 2011 01:49:26.439 --> 01:49:27.760 You got to find what works for you. 2012 01:49:28.199 --> 01:49:31.880 And so this guy could tell you what anybody wrote 2013 01:49:31.880 --> 01:49:37.479 about anything, very convincingly. And you know, six months later 2014 01:49:37.560 --> 01:49:39.680 you find out the guy has never finished the script. 2015 01:49:41.880 --> 01:49:45.439 I mean, yeah, that's I wonder. You know, it's almost 2016 01:49:45.520 --> 01:49:47.720 like a fear of failure to start or something. I mean, 2017 01:49:47.720 --> 01:49:51.720 but then again, twenty years I mean, wow, I mean 2018 01:49:52.039 --> 01:49:55.439 that is just maybe he just maybe he's got a 2019 01:49:55.439 --> 01:49:57.399 ton of screenplays started but never actually finished. 2020 01:49:58.720 --> 01:50:05.000 We'll be right back. A word from our sponsor, and 2021 01:50:05.039 --> 01:50:06.119 now back to the show. 2022 01:50:07.720 --> 01:50:08.800 Really, you've never owned sort. 2023 01:50:08.640 --> 01:50:12.720 Of one that's well on, one screenplay worked on over 2024 01:50:12.800 --> 01:50:17.359 ten years, never finished it. You know, I knocked out. 2025 01:50:17.560 --> 01:50:21.159 I knocked out a rewrite in five days that was accepted. 2026 01:50:21.560 --> 01:50:24.680 Ninety nine out of one hundred pages were accepted. First pass. 2027 01:50:25.199 --> 01:50:27.239 I got some notes. They said, we want to change 2028 01:50:27.279 --> 01:50:29.760 a couple of things on this one page that may 2029 01:50:29.840 --> 01:50:32.439 cascadeness something else. Can you do that for us? I 2030 01:50:32.479 --> 01:50:35.359 said sure. I rewrote it in about ten minutes. I 2031 01:50:35.399 --> 01:50:38.840 spent about twelve hours rereading the script, thinking about everything, 2032 01:50:38.880 --> 01:50:42.520 making sure that I wasn't setting myself up for a jackpot, 2033 01:50:42.600 --> 01:50:47.000 a story hoole, a continuity. Ear couldn't figure out anything 2034 01:50:47.039 --> 01:50:50.520 that was affected by this in any way. And when 2035 01:50:50.520 --> 01:50:52.399 ahead and turned it in and they said, oh my god, 2036 01:50:52.439 --> 01:50:54.239 we love it. You're done. 2037 01:50:54.439 --> 01:50:56.039 Yeah, you know, I want to do a guy Mike 2038 01:50:56.800 --> 01:51:01.520 he couldn't write ten pages in three months, and uh yeah, 2039 01:51:02.159 --> 01:51:04.239 I and he wanted to be a screenwriter, And I said, 2040 01:51:04.880 --> 01:51:07.760 you got it. Turn in three or ten pages at 2041 01:51:07.800 --> 01:51:09.520 least ten pages, and I give him three months to 2042 01:51:09.560 --> 01:51:12.119 do it, and because each month I would check back in, 2043 01:51:12.159 --> 01:51:13.720 because that's what you had to do to join the 2044 01:51:13.720 --> 01:51:16.720 one writer's group, was that you had to actually have 2045 01:51:16.760 --> 01:51:19.000 written something. And I said, just show us something. I said, 2046 01:51:19.039 --> 01:51:21.920 write ten pages. And the first month I didn't do it. 2047 01:51:22.479 --> 01:51:24.119 My wife, my wife, and. 2048 01:51:24.039 --> 01:51:26.800 I told you got it. 2049 01:51:26.840 --> 01:51:29.520 And in a second month, another excuse, third month, and 2050 01:51:29.600 --> 01:51:31.800 finally I said, you know, I don't think your heart 2051 01:51:31.880 --> 01:51:34.159 is into this. I think your brain is. I think 2052 01:51:34.199 --> 01:51:37.359 you want that, that notoriety. And then when we want 2053 01:51:37.359 --> 01:51:41.720 that exactly, And I have a whole post on this. 2054 01:51:41.840 --> 01:51:44.199 I have a whole post on you know, staring at 2055 01:51:44.199 --> 01:51:47.680 the blank page and being able to put anything fucking 2056 01:51:47.760 --> 01:51:51.399 commit write something. You're not a writer if you don't write. 2057 01:51:52.159 --> 01:51:54.359 So I have a whole essay on this that people 2058 01:51:54.399 --> 01:51:57.439 found very useful, and with seven or eight different bullet 2059 01:51:57.439 --> 01:52:00.239 points about what what is really going to happen in 2060 01:52:00.279 --> 01:52:02.239 your life? What is going to go wrong if you 2061 01:52:02.279 --> 01:52:04.880 write a piece of shit? What is really going to 2062 01:52:04.960 --> 01:52:07.920 happen to you? If you sit there and you hack 2063 01:52:07.960 --> 01:52:12.640 away at your keyboard and you write just a piece 2064 01:52:12.680 --> 01:52:20.439 of roadkill, a dog wouldn't eat. Guess what, nothing happened. 2065 01:52:21.600 --> 01:52:25.039 You can rewrite it. You could start over three years later, 2066 01:52:25.079 --> 01:52:27.319 after you've written two good ones. You'll laugh at your 2067 01:52:27.319 --> 01:52:29.560 first one, and maybe you'll have ideas to go back 2068 01:52:29.560 --> 01:52:33.600 and fix it. But that fear of writing, Like I said, 2069 01:52:33.600 --> 01:52:35.880 I wrote a whole essay on this. It was very 2070 01:52:35.880 --> 01:52:38.199 well received. If you be in the book fear of writing, 2071 01:52:38.840 --> 01:52:41.000 if you don't put it down on the page. The 2072 01:52:41.039 --> 01:52:45.000 one thing I guarantee you is you will never get anywhere. 2073 01:52:45.479 --> 01:52:48.479 If you don't actually commit to write, You will never 2074 01:52:48.520 --> 01:52:50.960 accomplish anything. Mike. 2075 01:52:51.199 --> 01:52:54.159 That is so true. And you know, Mike, we've been 2076 01:52:54.159 --> 01:52:57.399 talking for about an hour and forty five minutes now, Wow, 2077 01:52:57.520 --> 01:52:59.880 I haven't even Yeah, well I have a timer writing 2078 01:53:00.159 --> 01:53:03.800 to me. How long everything? But but so that's the 2079 01:53:03.880 --> 01:53:07.079 other reason, I know, you know, Mike, I don't want to, 2080 01:53:07.119 --> 01:53:09.000 you know, take up any more of your time. I 2081 01:53:09.039 --> 01:53:11.359 know you know. You know you've got a million things 2082 01:53:11.359 --> 01:53:13.880 going on as well. So you know, Mike. Inclosed, and 2083 01:53:13.920 --> 01:53:16.279 I just want to ask you one one final question. 2084 01:53:16.800 --> 01:53:18.880 Is there anything that we didn't sort of talk about 2085 01:53:18.960 --> 01:53:20.399 that you wanted to get a chance to or is 2086 01:53:20.439 --> 01:53:22.119 there anything that you wanted to say to sort of 2087 01:53:22.159 --> 01:53:23.840 put a period at the end of this whole conversation. 2088 01:53:26.359 --> 01:53:27.840 Yeah, every writer is different. 2089 01:53:27.920 --> 01:53:29.560 What works for me works for me. 2090 01:53:29.760 --> 01:53:32.239 That's a good place to start to look at, but 2091 01:53:32.319 --> 01:53:34.800 it doesn't mean it's going to work for you. If 2092 01:53:34.840 --> 01:53:37.880 you find a method that works for you, no matter 2093 01:53:37.960 --> 01:53:41.920 how many people tell you it's wrong. If your work 2094 01:53:41.960 --> 01:53:44.520 product is good, it doesn't matter how you get there, 2095 01:53:44.520 --> 01:53:48.279 as long as you're not stealing it. Do whatever works 2096 01:53:48.319 --> 01:53:51.520 for you. Learn the rules, the conventions of the trade. 2097 01:53:52.359 --> 01:53:55.560 Some of them people can't even say why it's done 2098 01:53:55.560 --> 01:53:58.319 that way. It's just done that way. Some of the 2099 01:53:58.439 --> 01:54:01.199 rules you're gonna not be able to break, and some 2100 01:54:01.319 --> 01:54:03.720 of the rules you will be able to break. When 2101 01:54:03.720 --> 01:54:06.880 anyone tells you absolutely, oh this is wrong, that's wrong, 2102 01:54:07.439 --> 01:54:11.359 absolutes usually don't work. Learn a way to write that 2103 01:54:11.479 --> 01:54:16.039 works for you, and use that method. It probably won't 2104 01:54:16.039 --> 01:54:19.239 work for me. Mine may not work for you. But 2105 01:54:19.319 --> 01:54:22.359 there isn't necessarily a right way or wrong way you 2106 01:54:22.479 --> 01:54:26.279 need to get a high quality finished product out. If 2107 01:54:26.319 --> 01:54:29.399 you stand on your head and gibber and shriek and 2108 01:54:29.479 --> 01:54:32.439 write upside down left handed, and that gets it done. 2109 01:54:33.199 --> 01:54:33.840 Go for it. 2110 01:54:34.000 --> 01:54:38.760 That's what you need to do, and you need to write. 2111 01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:42.079 A lot of people say, right, every day, you know, 2112 01:54:42.159 --> 01:54:43.640 write three pages every day. 2113 01:54:43.880 --> 01:54:45.680 You have to where you're not a writer, Well, I'm 2114 01:54:45.720 --> 01:54:47.239 not a writer. I don't write every day. 2115 01:54:47.600 --> 01:54:50.399 I write every day in my group, but as far 2116 01:54:50.399 --> 01:54:51.720 as writing content, I don't. 2117 01:54:51.840 --> 01:54:52.960 So that's another rule. 2118 01:54:53.000 --> 01:54:56.039 You know writers write every day, Well, thumb writers write 2119 01:54:56.039 --> 01:54:58.239 every day. There are plenty of writers that don't. I 2120 01:54:58.279 --> 01:55:00.640 write when i'm inspired, when I have great ideas, when 2121 01:55:00.680 --> 01:55:03.640 I'm on an assignment, if I don't have anything going on, 2122 01:55:03.680 --> 01:55:05.560 I don't feel like writing, and I sit down to write, 2123 01:55:05.560 --> 01:55:09.000 I'm going to write crap. Right, I'm not inspired, I'm 2124 01:55:09.000 --> 01:55:12.520 not motivated, I have no direction. Then without a goal, 2125 01:55:13.159 --> 01:55:15.159 I'm just going to meander along and write a bunch 2126 01:55:15.159 --> 01:55:17.279 of forgettable stuff that will end up in a folder 2127 01:55:17.319 --> 01:55:21.079 that I just wasted a day. Instead, focus before you 2128 01:55:21.159 --> 01:55:24.359 start to write. Common writer's errors. A new writer has 2129 01:55:24.399 --> 01:55:26.880 no idea what they have to say, what their voice is, 2130 01:55:26.920 --> 01:55:29.560 why they're writing. You need to try and discover your 2131 01:55:29.560 --> 01:55:31.880 own voice and figure out what you want to say. 2132 01:55:32.319 --> 01:55:34.119 You need to have something to say when you sit 2133 01:55:34.199 --> 01:55:36.600 down to write. I'll close on. 2134 01:55:36.560 --> 01:55:41.000 That I couldn't agree more. Mike, Mike, where people find 2135 01:55:41.039 --> 01:55:42.520 you out online? Sorry, I know I said that was 2136 01:55:42.520 --> 01:55:44.479 the last question, but this is the last question where 2137 01:55:44.479 --> 01:55:45.680 people find you out online? 2138 01:55:46.600 --> 01:55:52.439 No, my information's up on IMDb under Micha Lee Bierman. 2139 01:55:53.159 --> 01:55:55.720 Most of my projects are in development, which means unless 2140 01:55:55.720 --> 01:55:57.359 you have a pro you can't see them. But there's 2141 01:55:57.359 --> 01:56:01.560 plenty there my contact information. I'm also I can also 2142 01:56:01.600 --> 01:56:05.079 be reached through the Facebook group screenwriters who can actually 2143 01:56:05.079 --> 01:56:07.760 write if you're going to apply. 2144 01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:11.039 I do vet people. I do not let people. 2145 01:56:10.960 --> 01:56:13.560 Unless there's celebrities and they contact me separately, which has 2146 01:56:13.560 --> 01:56:14.520 happened a few times. 2147 01:56:14.920 --> 01:56:16.920 I don't let people in using false. 2148 01:56:16.680 --> 01:56:22.600 Names because deals are made in the group contracts form. 2149 01:56:22.680 --> 01:56:25.600 You need to use your real name, and you need 2150 01:56:25.640 --> 01:56:27.880 to show interest in writing. If I pull up your profile, 2151 01:56:27.920 --> 01:56:30.000 it's got a bunch of stuff about playing on the 2152 01:56:30.159 --> 01:56:33.159 Xbox and what's your favorite whiskey and what's your favorite 2153 01:56:33.199 --> 01:56:36.520 color Ferbie, You're probably not getting into the group. So 2154 01:56:38.000 --> 01:56:39.560 those are a couple of ways to find me in 2155 01:56:39.560 --> 01:56:43.279 my emails online at IMDb and everyone. 2156 01:56:43.359 --> 01:56:45.840 I will link to all of that in the show notes. 2157 01:56:46.199 --> 01:56:48.680 And again, I just want to say that Mike's group 2158 01:56:48.800 --> 01:56:53.199 is phenomenal. It is the best screenwriting group that I'm 2159 01:56:53.239 --> 01:56:56.239 aware of on Facebook, and it is just everybody in 2160 01:56:56.279 --> 01:56:58.359 there is always doing awesome things. And that's sort of 2161 01:56:58.359 --> 01:57:01.079 what I want to always want from a a screenwriters group, 2162 01:57:01.079 --> 01:57:03.600 you know, is people actually doing things. There's actually like 2163 01:57:03.680 --> 01:57:06.880 three screenwriting groups I'm a part of on Facebook and 2164 01:57:06.880 --> 01:57:09.039 and finally you know, they're they're great. They're yours. Mike 2165 01:57:09.640 --> 01:57:12.920 Screenwriting You has one, and Scott Myer's going to Stories 2166 01:57:12.960 --> 01:57:14.680 another and those three. 2167 01:57:14.800 --> 01:57:16.720 Sure, he's great. He's a Facebook friend of mine. I 2168 01:57:16.760 --> 01:57:19.560 don't really know him very well, but he's great, no 2169 01:57:19.680 --> 01:57:22.560 question about it. Yeah, what one, go ahead. 2170 01:57:22.800 --> 01:57:24.640 I'm sorry. I was just gonna say those three are 2171 01:57:24.680 --> 01:57:26.960 what actually keep me on Facebook, because otherwise I'd just 2172 01:57:27.000 --> 01:57:28.680 be like, there's nothing really keeping me here. 2173 01:57:30.039 --> 01:57:32.960 Hey, one finals thought, shameless plug. You can look for 2174 01:57:33.039 --> 01:57:36.479 my daughter and uh look for me. I'm I'm finishing 2175 01:57:36.600 --> 01:57:43.960 with co writer co producer Ramsey Stoneburner, exec producer Guy 2176 01:57:44.159 --> 01:57:48.319 Francisco Poland and associate producer Craig Talis. We're working on 2177 01:57:48.319 --> 01:57:52.079 a feature film called The Shoes, which we've finished, uh 2178 01:57:52.800 --> 01:57:55.399 shooting about two thirds of it. We've just added nay 2179 01:57:55.439 --> 01:57:58.840 list person and uh we're going to be finishing that 2180 01:57:58.960 --> 01:58:01.359 up in the next couple of months. So got a 2181 01:58:01.640 --> 01:58:03.680 couple of films in development, but that one is one 2182 01:58:03.680 --> 01:58:08.479 that is directly at least partially under my control. 2183 01:58:09.520 --> 01:58:12.720 Oh awesome, fantastic, Mike. And you know, I looked forward 2184 01:58:12.720 --> 01:58:14.720 to seeing you know everything you're up to, and I 2185 01:58:14.760 --> 01:58:17.880 know we'll be talking in the group. Michael e Berman. There, 2186 01:58:17.920 --> 01:58:19.199 I finally got it out. I have a head cold, 2187 01:58:19.239 --> 01:58:21.119 by the way, that's why I sound so terrible. 2188 01:58:20.840 --> 01:58:23.399 But uh, oh you actually sound great and no idea. 2189 01:58:23.439 --> 01:58:25.760 Oh good. Yeah, that's why I'm having some trouble talking. 2190 01:58:25.800 --> 01:58:28.640 I can't really breathe my nose too well. But it's 2191 01:58:28.680 --> 01:58:30.960 been a pleasure having you on, Mike, and I want 2192 01:58:31.000 --> 01:58:33.399 to say thank you so much, and again I will 2193 01:58:33.439 --> 01:58:34.560 be talking to you very very soon. 2194 01:58:35.600 --> 01:58:36.880 Thank you so much for the opportunity. 2195 01:58:36.920 --> 01:58:37.680 I really enjoyed it. 2196 01:58:37.880 --> 01:58:39.600 I'm glad you did. My friend take care. 2197 01:58:40.159 --> 01:58:41.079 Okay, bye bye. 2198 01:58:41.960 --> 01:58:43.760 I want to thank Dave so much for doing such 2199 01:58:43.800 --> 01:58:45.319 a great job on this episode. If you want to 2200 01:58:45.319 --> 01:58:47.279 get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, 2201 01:58:47.279 --> 01:58:50.399 head over to the show notes at Bulletproof screenwriting dot 2202 01:58:50.479 --> 01:58:53.199 tv for it Slash for forty eight. Thank you so 2203 01:58:53.279 --> 01:58:56.119 much for listening. Guys, as always, keep on writing no 2204 01:58:56.199 --> 01:58:57.760 matter what. I'll talk to you soon. 2205 01:58:58.239 --> 01:59:01.560 Thanks for listening to the bullet Proofs Screenwriting podcast at 2206 01:59:01.600 --> 01:59:03.560 Fullip Group screenwriting dot tv 2207 01:59:08.640 --> 01:59:09.000 MHM