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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the nonprofits. For today, we cover two stories

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<v Speaker 1>where pastors claim that voting for the wrong person can

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<v Speaker 1>be hazardous to your health. In a bizarre twist, a

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<v Speaker 1>pastor Robert Henderson claims he healed a man who had

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<v Speaker 1>been hospitalized for voting Democrat, suggesting that spiritual ailments were

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<v Speaker 1>merely a side effect of poor political choices. Repent and

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be cured, he proclaimed, as the switching parties could

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<v Speaker 1>remedy everything from the sniffles to serious health issues. The

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<v Speaker 1>second pastor proclaims of fulfilling their divine assignment will protect

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<v Speaker 1>them from death. These spectacles of faith us a partisan

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<v Speaker 1>politics showcase how some religious leaders are reinterpreting a political

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<v Speaker 1>affiliation as a matter of spiritual life and death, prompting

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<v Speaker 1>laughter and concern and equal measures. After all, who knew

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<v Speaker 1>a vote could be so hazardous to your health. These

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<v Speaker 1>articles are from The Friendly Atheist by Him and Meta

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<v Speaker 1>on September twenty six, twenty twenty four, and Slave Magazine

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<v Speaker 1>by Molly Olmsted on September twenty fifth, twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 1>I have to admit, when I first read this little

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<v Speaker 1>bit of trouble, even taking as serious but Jonathan, I

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<v Speaker 1>was curious, what do you think is this a story

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<v Speaker 1>about this dying democrat? Is this just some made up

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<v Speaker 1>story to excite and work up a crowd. Well, what

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<v Speaker 1>do you think it seemed.

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<v Speaker 2>To be eating. So yeah, they're eating it up because

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of anecdotal evidence is something they eat up

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<v Speaker 2>to justify their positions on a lot of things. But

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<v Speaker 2>one of the things that makes me kind of interesting

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<v Speaker 2>is that, you know, the preacher prayed for him, right

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<v Speaker 2>and five minutes later a congress a congregationalist who was

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<v Speaker 2>aware of that was somehow related to the to the

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<v Speaker 2>gentleman involved, got a phone call saying he just came

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<v Speaker 2>out of his fever broke, he's fine. You know. That

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<v Speaker 2>was about five minutes after that. And I'm sitting here

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<v Speaker 2>thinking to myself, I've been in a lot of hospitals,

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<v Speaker 2>but that word when somebody's feaver breaks or something like that,

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<v Speaker 2>will go to the doctor right away and then go

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<v Speaker 2>no place for ten or fifteen minutes, sometimes an hour,

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<v Speaker 2>and then it will finally get out like family and

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<v Speaker 2>friends and things, you know, because they've got a lot

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<v Speaker 2>going on, you know, especially in ICU, you know, so

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<v Speaker 2>it's like I was supposed to get released, and it

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<v Speaker 2>took at least three hours to just get my release

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<v Speaker 2>papers up there and then you know, and that was

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<v Speaker 2>like hours after I actually responded to the medication I

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<v Speaker 2>was on. So it was like, yeah, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>that his prayer happened when, you know, before his fever broke.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it happened somewhat after the fact. So it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense to me, But it does make sense

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<v Speaker 2>to me that the preacher Henderson stoked the correlation with

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<v Speaker 2>the timing of the prayer, because why wouldn't he. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>he's trying to get his congregationalists to believe every word

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<v Speaker 2>he says, and so naturally he cured the guy. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think so.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, hey, I have to say you're you're

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<v Speaker 1>a lot nicer than I am, because I question whether

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<v Speaker 1>any of the story ever occurred at all. And this

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<v Speaker 1>is not a complete fabrication to work up a crowd.

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<v Speaker 1>But as you said, nothing happens fast in the hospital,

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<v Speaker 1>So if the word just came down that the patient's

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<v Speaker 1>fever had broken, it seems like odd terminology. The way

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<v Speaker 1>he talks about this fever all around, very not medical.

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<v Speaker 1>For the lack of a better way to put it,

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<v Speaker 1>I just think that it just sounds like a good story,

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<v Speaker 1>a good fish story. Now, Eli, I know that the

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<v Speaker 1>leaders of this gnar, this New Apostolic Reformation, they've become

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<v Speaker 1>influential political figures within evangelical Christianity. I know that they

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<v Speaker 1>use symbols like the appeal to Heaven flag. I know

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<v Speaker 1>that that's the same flag also that we've covered here

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<v Speaker 1>on the nonprofits of Samuel Alito's wife actually flying and

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<v Speaker 1>getting into some hot water. Do you think there's a

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<v Speaker 1>trade off between what we're seeing with these evangelical religious

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<v Speaker 1>leaders and political figures like this, Oh?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, because political leaders of a particular persuasion have learned

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<v Speaker 3>that they can get free campaign support, just like from

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<v Speaker 3>church leaders, just by like presenting the right image. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>if they say the right things, they take the right pictures,

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<v Speaker 3>these churches will fill the ballots on your behalf for free.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's what's happening. And I think the idea here

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<v Speaker 3>is kind of disgusting because I'm on the same page

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<v Speaker 3>as you. I don't think that story ever happened. And

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<v Speaker 3>the reason I feel pretty comfort about that, like I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't work in a hospital. But I've worked in the

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<v Speaker 3>medical field and I did some clinicals, and I don't

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<v Speaker 3>remember like a lot of phone calling taking place when

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<v Speaker 3>developments happen. Like the people that are there need to know.

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<v Speaker 3>And then if somebody like the next of kin comes

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<v Speaker 3>in and as they are in the room, they're like, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>what's going on with treatment? But for the most part,

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<v Speaker 3>like if it's an adult with a fever, that adult

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<v Speaker 3>is capable of making their own medical decisions and you're

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<v Speaker 3>not going to call anybody to tell them that the

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<v Speaker 3>fever broke because that just doesn't make any sense. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>the same I agree with you, John that like once

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<v Speaker 3>something does happen, it some time is going to go

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<v Speaker 3>by before like any you know, any reaction, Yeah, any reaction,

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<v Speaker 3>any that's less work.

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<v Speaker 2>On their shoulders at the moment. So exactly, yeahs to

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<v Speaker 2>worry about, Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>One last thing I have to worry about right now. Exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think that the because this is this, Henderson

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<v Speaker 3>isn't the only pastor to do something like this fabricated

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<v Speaker 3>story and be like, well, it's because of this particular reason,

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<v Speaker 3>but it was God that made it better. Just to

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<v Speaker 3>like kind of influence the opinions and the like the

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<v Speaker 3>non religious beliefs of their their congregations, their congregants, and

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<v Speaker 3>he knows that not everybody is going to believe it,

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<v Speaker 3>but some of them are going to and and the

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<v Speaker 3>ones that don't aren't going to speak up because they

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<v Speaker 3>they're they're going to face like alienation from the church.

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<v Speaker 3>People are going to like accuse him of not supporting

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<v Speaker 3>the pastor, and they're going to be like kind of ostracized.

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<v Speaker 3>So they're just kind of psychologically torturing gullible people into

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<v Speaker 3>shaping the world the way that they, the individual pastors

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<v Speaker 3>want it, and I think it's kind of use.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also dangerous in the long term because no two

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<v Speaker 2>of these pastors have the same vision of what they

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<v Speaker 2>want the world to be, and so eventually the religious

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<v Speaker 2>wars happen all the time because you got two people

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<v Speaker 2>in power who don't want to share power, and so

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<v Speaker 2>they have to fight each other and you have really

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<v Speaker 2>nasty things as a result.

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<v Speaker 1>I agree with what you said, Eli, as far as

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<v Speaker 1>the way information goes from a situation like this, the

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<v Speaker 1>way the discussion happened, it almost sounded like they had

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<v Speaker 1>a red line directly into the doctor's bluetooth on his head,

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<v Speaker 1>and so the doctor could give them a play by

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<v Speaker 1>play while he's addressing the situation and the health concerns

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<v Speaker 1>of this patient they're talking about. And that's just not

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<v Speaker 1>how things work.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing I wanted to question you about, is this

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<v Speaker 1>the newest Republican healthcare? I know that the Book of

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<v Speaker 1>Mark was the latter half of the last chapter was

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<v Speaker 1>written much later than the rest of the book. So

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<v Speaker 1>I took it on myself to do a little rewrite

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<v Speaker 1>and figured that whoever believes in vosts GOP will be saved,

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<v Speaker 1>but whoever for lots of Democrats shall be condemned forever.

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<v Speaker 1>That's kind of what it sounds like to me, a

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<v Speaker 1>heavenly hmo. So what did you think about the idea

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<v Speaker 1>about when he's talking about all this evilness coming through

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<v Speaker 1>voting for Democrats? Are we seeing pandemics out there of

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<v Speaker 1>people who've voted in the past, or people other than

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<v Speaker 1>Republicans getting sick? Is that something?

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<v Speaker 2>Think you didn't hear that eighty two million people who

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<v Speaker 2>voted for Biden all got sick at once. You didn't

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<v Speaker 2>see that it was headline news man, Well at least

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<v Speaker 2>it was in the religious newsletters. But maybe I'm just kidding.

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<v Speaker 2>But you know, the idea is also that these things

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<v Speaker 2>are made up all the time. I mean, lying has

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<v Speaker 2>become the new way to get everybody to get excited,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. And I'm sitting there going, you know, there's

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<v Speaker 2>literally the country is the strongest economically, and otherwise it's

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<v Speaker 2>ever and wages are up all that, and they still

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<v Speaker 2>claim that it's going to to the dogs, right, And

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<v Speaker 2>they claim that because if things are going better under

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<v Speaker 2>their demonic because they'd like to demonize us. But not

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<v Speaker 2>only that, but not just Democrats, but anybody who's not

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<v Speaker 2>a Republican is considered working with literally working with the devil.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's how they present this. They have a black

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<v Speaker 2>and white theology, and that black and white is very

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<v Speaker 2>important to them to maintain, and so they, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they want to make sure that they're on the right

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<v Speaker 2>side of things, you know, that they're on God's side.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, one of the old sayings I heard is,

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<v Speaker 2>and this is a little different than most people are,

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<v Speaker 2>is that the devil's greatest deception was making sure that

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<v Speaker 2>everybody thought he was God in the Bible, and that

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<v Speaker 2>the devil was the real God, so he made everybody

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<v Speaker 2>believe the flip side of things, And if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at it, it kind of looks that way, doesn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>So you know, but it's just like, we're all demons,

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<v Speaker 2>we're not human, so it's okay to hurt us, kill us,

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<v Speaker 2>do whatever they need to get rid of us, getting

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<v Speaker 2>ready for their big rapture.

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<v Speaker 1>I definitely think you're onto something there with the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that we're all demons and we're not good people and

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<v Speaker 1>we're not even human. I think that that dehumanizing factor

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<v Speaker 1>of what they teach really is the most dangerous thing

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<v Speaker 1>they do, because, as you said, it allows people to

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<v Speaker 1>kill and do terrible things that they would never consider

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<v Speaker 1>themselves doing to another human. You mentioned satanic Hank Kooneman.

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<v Speaker 1>He's the one that put on that Second Spectacle where

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<v Speaker 1>the pastor made the really out there claims, but you

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<v Speaker 1>know he made He's he's been on record saying that

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<v Speaker 1>Taylor Swift was satanic and that she did satanic acts

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<v Speaker 1>in her and her performances. And he's also we did

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<v Speaker 1>the show about a three million dollar land scam he

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<v Speaker 1>did one time. But you know, as you said, switching

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<v Speaker 1>over to you though, Eli I noticed that him in

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<v Speaker 1>this article made the comment that they cast a spell

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<v Speaker 1>to heal the guy. Well, what did you think of

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<v Speaker 1>that that terminology when they're talking about you know, magic

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<v Speaker 1>and satanic and all these things and then lumping them

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<v Speaker 1>in with casting a spell.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was just kind of thinking about it when

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<v Speaker 3>you know, John was talking about how like we're all demonic,

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<v Speaker 3>and I'm like, you guys are the ones that believe

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<v Speaker 3>in demons, Like you guys believe in all this crazy

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<v Speaker 3>stuff that you think is so dark and like horrible

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<v Speaker 3>and twisted. Were just like, don't do that. And I

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<v Speaker 3>think it's really fitting that he called it casting a spell,

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<v Speaker 3>because I we call it magic all the time, right,

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<v Speaker 3>whatever their preferred brand of magic is, And it's just

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<v Speaker 3>sort of I think it's really fitting. It's just just

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<v Speaker 3>specifically based on, you know, the way John was kind

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<v Speaker 3>of describing it there a little bit ago. I just

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<v Speaker 3>it as I'm looking at It's just one of those

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<v Speaker 3>stories where you hear it from the outsign and you're like,

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<v Speaker 3>how do people think this really happen? And you realize

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<v Speaker 3>that it has a lot to do with that sort

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<v Speaker 3>of when you get into an environment where everybody is,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, saying the same thing, and everybody is having

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<v Speaker 3>a super good time about it, and they're all excited

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<v Speaker 3>and there's you know, camaraderie and togetherness and community, and

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<v Speaker 3>you start to have like these endorphins and good feelings

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<v Speaker 3>and you associate it's that's a spell in itself, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if if we're talking about it really like, it has

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<v Speaker 3>this effect on you that is going to make you

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<v Speaker 3>think that there's something way more substantial to what is

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<v Speaker 3>going on than there really is. And it's that it's

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<v Speaker 3>so dangerous in this way that it leads people to

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<v Speaker 3>believe things like this and then to believe that like

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<v Speaker 3>the way that you vote like that, that US politics

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<v Speaker 3>specifically is of such a concern to the master and

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<v Speaker 3>creator of the entire universe that the way that you

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<v Speaker 3>vote has you know, uh, determination, determining power and where

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<v Speaker 3>your eternal soul goes forever and the.

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<v Speaker 2>Higher consequences dire exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>And the idea that they're they're using this and I

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<v Speaker 3>said it earlier, it's psychological torture to convince these people

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<v Speaker 3>that they have to think and behave and believe a

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<v Speaker 3>certain way or else. And it's the most significant. It

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<v Speaker 3>is the ultimate or else.

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<v Speaker 2>I also I'm curious about the you know, cast a

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<v Speaker 2>spell thing. If these ministers and preachers are casting spells,

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<v Speaker 2>can't they be accused of witchcraft and burned at the stake.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, of course they wouldn't consider casting spells, and they

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<v Speaker 1>would just look at that as you trying to equate

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<v Speaker 1>their godly manners with your filthy, sinful, demonic ways and

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<v Speaker 1>equating the two, which makes you even more demonic, because

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<v Speaker 1>my way is the right way, your ways a demonic way.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're okay though until you do something I don't like,

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<v Speaker 1>and then your ways demonic too.

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<v Speaker 2>Because that goes back to which to live.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, absolutely, but they don't consider it. They wouldn't consider

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<v Speaker 1>it a spell. That's the whole thing. But ye, look,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm with you, because you know. One thing that concerns

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<v Speaker 1>me though, seriously, John, is the fact that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you talked about how this dehumanizes people, and one in

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<v Speaker 1>particular on that second wall knows he made the comment

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<v Speaker 1>that the predatory left is going to make children suicidal,

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<v Speaker 1>suicidal by evangelizing them into thinking they're the wrong gender.

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<v Speaker 1>Telling the crowd, and I quote this, you're authorized to

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<v Speaker 1>take the Philistines out of position. Now knowing who the

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<v Speaker 1>Philistines were, a traditional enemy of God's people and the

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<v Speaker 1>Old Testament, do you think he's promoting violence there? Is

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<v Speaker 1>that what he's doing?

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, definitely, he wants to He wants the army of

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<v Speaker 2>God to defeat the minions of Satan. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's an old evangelical trick to try and keep people

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<v Speaker 2>under control and to direct them to commit violence against

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<v Speaker 2>people that are directly threatening their religion or their control

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<v Speaker 2>over the people. And that's just a bite model, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>kind of it's kind of screwed up.

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<v Speaker 1>Very dangerous, you know. And I know that here in

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<v Speaker 1>the ACA and other nonprofits, it's important that we steer

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<v Speaker 1>away from certain topics, especially on election years in particular.

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<v Speaker 1>But I find it absolutely appalling that these people can

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<v Speaker 1>talk about voting democrat. Henderson made the comment that it's

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<v Speaker 1>a spirit of death and all these different things that

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<v Speaker 1>they talk about, or they talk about how important it

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<v Speaker 1>is to literally vote a certain way or you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to burn forever. And you know, going back to you Eli,

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<v Speaker 1>you had mentioned that, you know there are people who

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<v Speaker 1>are going to remain silent because they fear that if

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<v Speaker 1>they don't remain silent, you know, they'll be opstracized and

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<v Speaker 1>they'll be othered as well. And that's one of the

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<v Speaker 1>things that I think that this group counts on is

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that you know, if you don't agree with it, well,

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<v Speaker 1>just shut the hell up and smile anyway, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>what we're that's what we're going with. And the thing

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<v Speaker 1>is is that I feel that when people hear that,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a dangerous of a danger of desensitizing them to

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<v Speaker 1>the behaviors that this can lead to. What do you

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<v Speaker 1>think about that?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And I wanted to add too, because I said

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<v Speaker 3>earlier they'd be accused of, you know, not supporting the

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<v Speaker 3>church or the pastor, but not only that, it would

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<v Speaker 3>go it would go beyond that to be like, oh, no,

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<v Speaker 3>you're doubting God. You're doubting that God is capable of

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<v Speaker 3>doing that. So it what will happen is they're gonna

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<v Speaker 3>they'll go to church and they'll you know, hear these

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<v Speaker 3>things they don't agree with, but they'll keep their mouths

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<v Speaker 3>shut and they'll interact with these people outside of those

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<v Speaker 3>moments where they're hearing those things. Well, these are good people,

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<v Speaker 3>so maybe it's not that bad of a thing that

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<v Speaker 3>they have these bad ideas, not realizing that even though

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<v Speaker 3>they may be friendly people to people that they consider

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<v Speaker 3>part of their in group or specifically their church, they're

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<v Speaker 3>going to go out and make other decisions to other people,

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<v Speaker 3>to strangers, and they're going to vote based on the

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<v Speaker 3>things that they believe, and that doesn't the fact that

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<v Speaker 3>they're kind doesn't ultimately make them good people. There's more

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<v Speaker 3>to being a good person than just being kind to

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<v Speaker 3>a person's face that you're familiar with. So, yeah, I

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<v Speaker 3>think to say it desensitizes is a really apt way

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<v Speaker 3>to put it, because they're just not gonna they're going

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<v Speaker 3>to assume like, well, you know, my church isn't the problem,

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<v Speaker 3>it's the other churches.

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're right with the fact that what this

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<v Speaker 1>does is it allows them to judge people on other levels,

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<v Speaker 1>as you mentioned, away from church and and seeing and

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<v Speaker 1>interacting and getting that you know, they're all right, they're

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<v Speaker 1>good people, and so giving a buy and a pass

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<v Speaker 1>to absolutely abhorrent behavior because well, you know, they smile,

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<v Speaker 1>they yes, they greet me, they do all these things

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<v Speaker 1>right and nice. Well, the problem is step out of

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<v Speaker 1>line and see what happens, and that fear because they've

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<v Speaker 1>an what happens when you step out of line. That's

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<v Speaker 1>the reminder of whether they're good people or not? Are

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<v Speaker 1>you good people? Until you and I have a disagreement

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<v Speaker 1>and then you know, I dump you and head out,

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<v Speaker 1>or do I go ahead and say all right, let's

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<v Speaker 1>talk this out and see where we are from here

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<v Speaker 1>and then having a conversation like adults rather than you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're of the devil because and that's what it is.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so completely outhering because that's all it does. And John,

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<v Speaker 1>before I wrap this up, is there anything else you

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to add to this?

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<v Speaker 2>No, you know, this kind of speech and bigotry and

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<v Speaker 2>that when they other other people they're they're doing that

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<v Speaker 2>to everybody that they had a bigoted attitude towards beginning

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<v Speaker 2>been with, and this religion just gives them cover to

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<v Speaker 2>be who they really are, and no matter how despicable

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<v Speaker 2>that is. You know, back, you know, not too long ago,

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<v Speaker 2>you wouldn't hear any of this in public. It'll be

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<v Speaker 2>the stuff that wasn't said out loud. But now it's

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<v Speaker 2>been legitimized and normalized to put people down directly, entire

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<v Speaker 2>groups of people, which is just a generalization error.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we've seen a lot of that, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of that starts with leadership who goes and

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<v Speaker 1>detigrates people for their own gain or just for fun,

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<v Speaker 1>or just for political points. And then we see that,

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<v Speaker 1>and we see those sound bites that we hear time

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<v Speaker 1>and time again, and I do think it becomes desensitized

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<v Speaker 1>so that some of the words that we wouldn't allow,

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<v Speaker 1>not on mean you or us in particular, but that

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<v Speaker 1>you wouldn't allow out of your mouth has become normalized

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<v Speaker 1>and become things that it's okay to say now. And

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<v Speaker 1>that is a very dangerous route because what it does,

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<v Speaker 1>as we said earlier, is literally dehumanizes people and tells

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<v Speaker 1>people to get in line or else. And having been

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<v Speaker 1>a person who is raised in a get in line

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<v Speaker 1>or you're going to hell, I know what that's like.

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<v Speaker 1>And I can't help but think that people can do better,

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<v Speaker 1>even if you want to keep your guide. While I

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<v Speaker 1>might disagree with you and your God, people can do

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<v Speaker 1>better than that. I hope that ultimately people see these

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<v Speaker 1>people for what they are. I appreciate both of you

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<v Speaker 1>for this conversation thought. I thought we enlightened, found some

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<v Speaker 1>good things to talk about, and I look forward to

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<v Speaker 1>having another conversation, well except maybe without Jonathan, but