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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to hide behind the map, talk about it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's all programmed to create chaos.

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<v Speaker 1>Fifty five KRZ eighth six fifty five KRCD talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>You heard the voice of my guest in studio empower

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<v Speaker 1>You sevenar to night, seven pm. You can either log

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<v Speaker 1>on empower Youoamerica dot org or show up in person.

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<v Speaker 1>Two twenty five Northland Boulevard formerly Framed, USA, where the

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<v Speaker 1>empower You America's seminar, or rather studio still exists. Thank

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<v Speaker 1>you as always to Dan Ragnell for the original concept

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<v Speaker 1>for these wonderful learning opportunities and educational opportunities and dedication

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<v Speaker 1>of the space to have these in studio. Mark Burrell,

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<v Speaker 1>he is an author, talked to him before his book

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<v Speaker 1>Rediscovering the American Covenant Roadmap to Restore America, which was

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<v Speaker 1>published a couple of years ago, argues that American Declaration

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<v Speaker 1>of Independence functions as our national founding covenant, following a

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<v Speaker 1>Biblical template for establishing community or nation. It's aimed at

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<v Speaker 1>pastors and church leaders, although you can feel free to

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<v Speaker 1>enjoy it yourself. Today and tonight we'll be diving in

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit to his new book, The Duty Is Ours.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a concise overview of what God desires for nations,

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<v Speaker 1>at least as he perceives it, including how to establish

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<v Speaker 1>a governation that in a way that honors God. Discusses

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<v Speaker 1>biblical responses for Christians out there who when governed justly

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<v Speaker 1>or unjustly, offering a framework for guiding a wayward nation

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<v Speaker 1>back to God. He has a podcast, check it out

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<v Speaker 1>Liberty Talk Podcast, where he analyzes curve events through the

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<v Speaker 1>biblical lens. He also cool enjoys restoring antique cars. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's an awesome hobby. Welcome and thanks for coming

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<v Speaker 1>to the studio. Mark Barrell, it's great to see you again.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, thanks for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Brian. How did you get involved with this? I know

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<v Speaker 1>you have an engineering backworn you were a background you

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<v Speaker 1>worked at Procter and Gamble and a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 1>different roles in manufacturing, engineering, et cetera. But how did

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<v Speaker 1>you get involved in your biblical analysis, not only in

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<v Speaker 1>rediscovering the American Covenant, but The Duty is Ours? The

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<v Speaker 1>book we have I have in my hand here and

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<v Speaker 1>thanks for the copy.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so it started about thirty years ago. I really

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<v Speaker 3>had a lot of questions about my faith and having

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<v Speaker 3>an engineering and a science background, I felt like there

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<v Speaker 3>ought to be some reasonable answers to a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the questions that I had, and so I started trying

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<v Speaker 3>to find people get answered those questions. And I was

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<v Speaker 3>fortunate enough to find a mentor who was strong in theology,

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<v Speaker 3>and when I started sharing some of the questions I had,

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<v Speaker 3>he said, well, you just need systematic theology. I'll take

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<v Speaker 3>you through it. And so systematic theology is essentially applying

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<v Speaker 3>the scientific method to the Bible. So if you have

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<v Speaker 3>a question on what does God say about prayer? Or

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<v Speaker 3>who is God? What is he like? What are his

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<v Speaker 3>nature and attributes? Basically the approaches just go through the Bible,

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<v Speaker 3>pull out all the verses that seem to talk about that,

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<v Speaker 3>arrange them, and figure out what the interpretation is that

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<v Speaker 3>seems to answer that question. And if you do that faithfully,

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<v Speaker 3>you'll find that the Bible does provide a pretty coherent

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<v Speaker 3>answer to most of the questions of life. So that's

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<v Speaker 3>how I got started in really understanding the Bible.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, now walk me through how this works. Because my

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<v Speaker 1>approach to the Morning Show is now and has always been.

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<v Speaker 1>I have never said out loud what religion. I am,

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<v Speaker 1>Everything I utter, my principles are based purely on logic

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<v Speaker 1>and reason and are supported regardless of what religion you

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<v Speaker 1>follow Islam, Judaism, Christianity. You know, there's a bottom line principle,

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<v Speaker 1>government's going to work or it's not. Two and two

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<v Speaker 1>is always four. It doesn't matter what you believe in.

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<v Speaker 1>And I can make my arguments to any person of

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<v Speaker 1>any faith. Now from that approach, does your scientific approach

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<v Speaker 1>to looking at the Bible apply logically and reasonably to

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<v Speaker 1>people who may not carry a faith or maybe of

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<v Speaker 1>a different faith than Christianity To understand where I'm coming

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<v Speaker 1>from on that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So I think the question is if you look

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<v Speaker 3>at all the facts, I mean, you can look at

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<v Speaker 3>how does what does the Bible say about all these things?

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<v Speaker 3>And then you can look at life and say what

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<v Speaker 3>can I observe about all these things? And if you

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<v Speaker 3>look at the two my experience has been that you

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<v Speaker 3>can see a match, but everyone's going on their own

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<v Speaker 3>personal faith journey. And that's really the key behind the

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<v Speaker 3>phrase pursuit of happiness and a declaration of independence that

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<v Speaker 3>Framers actually meant that they wanted to respect everyone's liberty

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<v Speaker 3>to go through their own personal faith journey up to

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<v Speaker 3>an including choosing not to follow God.

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<v Speaker 1>That's why we don't have a theocracy. They lived through

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<v Speaker 1>the Church of England. They saw what happened when you

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<v Speaker 1>have a religion that is well governments supported or mandated

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<v Speaker 1>taxes are paid to support the English Church. You may

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<v Speaker 1>be getting a message by the way, right, you may

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<v Speaker 1>be getting a message you don't believe in, but you're

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<v Speaker 1>stuck with it because your government is ed to a

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<v Speaker 1>specific religion. Our framers knew that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yep, they did. In fact, one of the things Jefferson

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<v Speaker 3>is accused of is being anti church. But one of

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<v Speaker 3>the things he was pushing when they were disestablishing the church,

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<v Speaker 3>for instance in Virginia in the seventeen seventies, is he

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<v Speaker 3>was arguing that the state should not be paying for

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<v Speaker 3>the churches. The churches should be on their own right,

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<v Speaker 3>which is the model we adopted in America. Which is

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<v Speaker 3>the right model.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the capitalist method for you got to do. You

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<v Speaker 1>have to proselytize, You have to convince people why they

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<v Speaker 1>should be following your specific faith. You have to weigh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, other faiths against the one that you're pushing

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<v Speaker 1>and show why your faith is the right way to go.

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<v Speaker 1>It's better for you as a human being. It'll help

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<v Speaker 1>you grow and thrive and survive. And as I go

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<v Speaker 1>to prayer, you know, I'm a prayerful man, and the

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<v Speaker 1>reason is it because it helps me be introspective. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't believe that I'm praying to a God that is

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<v Speaker 1>going to help me win the lottery. I believe I

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<v Speaker 1>am speaking to someone who is all seeing, all knowing being,

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<v Speaker 1>so I can't lie. If I got a problem in

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<v Speaker 1>my life, I have to understand that that problem may

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<v Speaker 1>be my responsibility. And the point of prayer for me

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<v Speaker 1>is to walk through that I'm having this problem. God,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, can you help me find a solution? Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>let's walk through why I am where I am with

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<v Speaker 1>any given problem. Maybe it is my fault. Maybe it's

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<v Speaker 1>the fault of something completely out of my hands. But

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I'm thinking. I'm never ever saying God, can

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<v Speaker 1>you please help me win the lottery? Or God, can

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<v Speaker 1>you help the Bengals win this weekend. I believe God

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<v Speaker 1>has a hands off approach about that. Otherwise we would

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<v Speaker 1>have plague, pestilence, war, famine, et cetera, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean the whole intent of prayer

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<v Speaker 3>is to communicate with God and listen and try and

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<v Speaker 3>be introspective about the things that are going on in

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<v Speaker 3>your life and what can you do about those?

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, absolutely, And you get that's very helpful to

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<v Speaker 1>someone as long as they're willing to put down that

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<v Speaker 1>idea that you know, God is the hand or out

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<v Speaker 1>of holiday treats. That's the importance of prayer for me.

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<v Speaker 1>Now walking through your scientific approach, is there any can

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<v Speaker 1>you give an illustration of how that works on any

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<v Speaker 1>given area of government for me this morning for my list,

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm going to talk about that, I know in depth.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to click overview.

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<v Speaker 3>Would be So, for instance, does God care about the nations?

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<v Speaker 3>If you look around the world today, I mean, the

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<v Speaker 3>nations are in a mess. It would be easy for

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<v Speaker 3>someone to conclude that God doesn't care about the nations.

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<v Speaker 3>We're sort of on our own. Yet if you look

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<v Speaker 3>start in Genesis, actually Genesis one twenty eight, he says,

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<v Speaker 3>I want the nations to be fruitful, increase in number,

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<v Speaker 3>and fill the earth. It's very simple. And then after

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<v Speaker 3>the flood he says the same thing. I want the

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<v Speaker 3>nations to be fruitful, increase in number, and phill the earth.

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<v Speaker 3>And then he adds one thing, because remember the question

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<v Speaker 3>after the flood is what's going to be different going forward?

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<v Speaker 3>We just wiped out mankind because of the rampant violence

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<v Speaker 3>and the rampant evil. So what's going to be different?

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<v Speaker 3>And in Genesis nine, verses five and six, he says,

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<v Speaker 3>I demand an accounting for the shedding of innocent blood.

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<v Speaker 3>And he says it three times. And that is where

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<v Speaker 3>the institution of civil government actually comes from in the Bible.

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<v Speaker 3>So you can start to piece together. Okay, God desires

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<v Speaker 3>nations to be fruitful, he wants nations to govern justly.

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<v Speaker 3>Then the next question is, well, how do you start

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<v Speaker 3>a nation? And how do you govern justly? And so

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<v Speaker 3>that's what I'll be talking about tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>I always had this vision along those lines. When you

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<v Speaker 1>think about Moses going up on the mount and bringing

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<v Speaker 1>down the Ten commandments. He went up there, it happened,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, Yeah, he was, he was. He was

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<v Speaker 1>being very contemplative. He's speaking with God. Maybe maybe God

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<v Speaker 1>delivered them physically to him, or maybe he was rebeing

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<v Speaker 1>reflective about the state of the world and analyzing where

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<v Speaker 1>all the problems come from looking down at the masses

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<v Speaker 1>and fighting and sleeping with each other and covetying and

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<v Speaker 1>andret Where are the where what are the core reasons

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<v Speaker 1>for our disfunction and our inability to get along with

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<v Speaker 1>each other? And by analyzing those you come up with

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<v Speaker 1>I think the Ten Commandments are a wonderful, non necessary

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<v Speaker 1>and doesn't even have to be religious based. Even believing

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<v Speaker 1>in a God is important because it's humble to man.

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<v Speaker 1>There is something beyond you which keeps you down a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit in terms of your cockiness. But all the

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<v Speaker 1>other ones simply don't kill anybody, covet if you could

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<v Speaker 1>wipe out any sin and I don't want to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>label them in terms of priority. But if people were

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<v Speaker 1>just no longer envious, covetous and greedy, they wouldn't look

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<v Speaker 1>at someone every day and go, you've got more than me,

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<v Speaker 1>I deserve more? Why how come you got? You know what,

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<v Speaker 1>when somebody has more than me, I'm I'm happy for them,

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<v Speaker 1>bully for you. Right, you did something the right way

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<v Speaker 1>which allowed you to be successful. So anyway we'll possible

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<v Speaker 1>bring we'll bring him back. Mark Burrew gonna be doing

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<v Speaker 1>the seminar tonight again, putting do an RSVP at a

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<v Speaker 1>power you America dot org say they are, You're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>show up either in person or when you log on

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<v Speaker 1>a power you America dot org. Will pause, take a

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<v Speaker 1>quick break and allow me to mention affordable imaging services,

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<v Speaker 1>because imaging can be affordable. Last image, I got my

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<v Speaker 1>CT scan. You know I didn't go to the hospital

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<v Speaker 1>to get it. I went to affordable imaging services and

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, my doctor said, Fine, you can go

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<v Speaker 1>where you want. I know I can go where I went.

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<v Speaker 1>You know why I went there. CT scans can set

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<v Speaker 1>you back five grand at a hospital, and I sure

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<v Speaker 1>as hell didn't want to pay for that kind of nonsense.

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<v Speaker 1>After the processing with insurance, I still would have been

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<v Speaker 1>left with probably one thousand plus dollars out of my pocket.

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<v Speaker 1>Affordable imaging services there for MRI, CT scans, echo cardigrams, ultrasounds,

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<v Speaker 1>all of them come on the board certified radiologists report

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<v Speaker 1>my doctor got. The report looked great. I mean in

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<v Speaker 1>terms of being able to compare it to my prior

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<v Speaker 1>CT scan. It was a fine report, totally acceptable, dotted

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<v Speaker 1>all the eyes and crossed all the t so I

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<v Speaker 1>can vouch for that as well. No hidden costs. They

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<v Speaker 1>use the same high quality equipment as most hospitals. The

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<v Speaker 1>difference is the very very low price, where that CT

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<v Speaker 1>scan will cost you four hundred and fifty dollars. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>a little more with the contrast, but ultrasound average costs

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<v Speaker 1>two grand. At Affordable Imaging Services, it's two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>fifty bucks. Get the idea, you have a choice, exercise

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<v Speaker 1>it like I did. Very very low overhead, Yeah, very

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<v Speaker 1>low overhead. But it's again professionals with the same equipment

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<v Speaker 1>five one three seven, five three eight thousand, five one

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<v Speaker 1>three seven five three eight thousand online Affordable Medimaging dot

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<v Speaker 1>com fifty five KRC.

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<v Speaker 2>Just high.

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<v Speaker 1>Time for the weather, uh sunny day for the most parts,

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<v Speaker 1>sixty two for the high clear ofver night down to

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<v Speaker 1>thirty seven. Got a sunny day tomorrow with the highest

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<v Speaker 1>sixty eight clear overy night down to forty and a

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<v Speaker 1>sunny Saturday for the Bengals came or Bearcats game. Rather,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna be a highest seventy two right now thirty

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<v Speaker 1>six traffic time Chuck Ingram.

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<v Speaker 2>From the use of how Tramphing Center mammogram. Say vibes

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<v Speaker 2>called five one three, five to eight four pink to

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<v Speaker 2>schedule your annual mammogram with uc Health SAX pred team.

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<v Speaker 2>That's five one three, five to eight four pink. Cruise

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<v Speaker 2>continue to work. With an accident involving four northbound two

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<v Speaker 2>seventy five at Ohio Pike, only the left lane gets by.

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<v Speaker 2>Tramfik is backing up towards five mile for an extra

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<v Speaker 2>thirty minutes south beound seventy five slows through walk on northbound.

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<v Speaker 2>That's Ereck near Cowbirth backing tramping through Saint Bernard King

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<v Speaker 2>bram On fifty five KRC, The talk station.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey twenty here fifty five KRC, The talk station Brian

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<v Speaker 1>Thomas with Mark Burrell. How are you seminar tonight? You

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<v Speaker 1>should check it out online. You can watch comfortably from

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<v Speaker 1>your own home and the power you America dot org,

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<v Speaker 1>just RSVP and stream the video connection or show up

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<v Speaker 1>at two twenty five Northland Boulevard. Should be a fascinating

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<v Speaker 1>conversation on the biblical connections. Biblical principles to shape and

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<v Speaker 1>how they shape the Declaration of Independence, but how they

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<v Speaker 1>are a guide for well, maybe writing the ship that

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<v Speaker 1>is the current disaster we find ourselves in right now,

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<v Speaker 1>my words, not yours, Mark, before we dive back into it,

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<v Speaker 1>because I know you have an anecdote or two you

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<v Speaker 1>want to pass along. But you also teamed up with

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<v Speaker 1>Building Blocks for Liberty, Jim Lewis's group, and they're doing

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<v Speaker 1>the sixteen nineteen project film.

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<v Speaker 3>They're doing that this Saturday, ten o'clock at the Freedom Church,

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<v Speaker 3>So show up a little early so you can sign.

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<v Speaker 1>Up, but we'd love to see you there ten am,

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<v Speaker 1>ten am the Freedom Church. Wonderful. Now moving over, what

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<v Speaker 1>is the rule of the church insofar as the election

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<v Speaker 1>is concerned or government generally speaking. I'm on record I've

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<v Speaker 1>said a gazillion times. If you're in the congregation and

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<v Speaker 1>the guy or gow in the front of the room

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<v Speaker 1>is telling you to vote for some huge social welfare

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<v Speaker 1>program through government, then they are abdicating the responsibility as

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<v Speaker 1>let's say a Christian, because it's the Christian individual's obligation

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<v Speaker 1>to help out one's fellow man, not the state. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>those are two separate obligations. State got its own, people

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<v Speaker 1>have their own, but off roading that is really removing one.

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<v Speaker 1>Are the points of the church, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the Church is to be the conscience of society

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<v Speaker 3>and Christians are to be adopting a Judeo Christian moral

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<v Speaker 3>and ethical framework. Let me say it that perfect and

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<v Speaker 3>the moral and ethical framework should guide not only your

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<v Speaker 3>personal actions, but also how you live your life with

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<v Speaker 3>your family, but also how you live in community. And

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<v Speaker 3>so when you're governing authorities are governing unjustly or they're

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<v Speaker 3>proposing policies and laws that do not match with moral

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<v Speaker 3>and ethical behavior, this is when Christians need to speak up.

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<v Speaker 1>Going back to my point on being covetous, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>class warfare, brother, right there, that's Marxism.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and you're spot on with the covetous thing. If

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<v Speaker 3>there is one that is like a dark horse on

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<v Speaker 3>the list, it's that one. It is and progressive us

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<v Speaker 3>that in order to get people to get upset and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, storm the gates and get some of these

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<v Speaker 3>laws passed that are really unethical, they shouldn't be passed.

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<v Speaker 3>But the point of the church is that we're supposed

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<v Speaker 3>to be the conscience of society, and the way Christians

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<v Speaker 3>do that is by at a minimum, is by voting.

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<v Speaker 3>And they should be voting their conscience, and their conscience

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<v Speaker 3>should be informed by biblical principles. And this is really

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<v Speaker 3>the target audience that I have for my ministry and

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<v Speaker 3>the books that I've been writing. Because when I started

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<v Speaker 3>this journey about twenty years ago, thirty years ago, I

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<v Speaker 3>had lots of questions. I didn't understand how the revolution

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<v Speaker 3>could have been biblically justifiable if Jesus said you should

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<v Speaker 3>pay her taxes and supposedly it was all about taxation

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<v Speaker 3>without representation. For me, that was a conflict. So I

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<v Speaker 3>understand that there's lots of questions about the founding and

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<v Speaker 3>whether or not it violated Romans thirteen, or it's in

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<v Speaker 3>conflict with evangelism. All those topics I had to work

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<v Speaker 3>through and I put them in. The first book has

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<v Speaker 3>all of it. It's very detailed. The second book is

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<v Speaker 3>a quicker read for the general congregation, and that's really

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<v Speaker 3>my target audience. Brian. I'm trying to get the church

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<v Speaker 3>to realize that they have a citizenship duty and we

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<v Speaker 3>need to step up and we need to get involved

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<v Speaker 3>in politics at a minimum by voting.

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<v Speaker 1>So your first book was for all the pastors, ministers, rabbis.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm mom what I have read this and advance these

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<v Speaker 1>principles to your congregation. This book is when you're in

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<v Speaker 1>church where they're not doing that for the congregation to

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<v Speaker 1>stand up and say, hey, pastor Rabbi, I'm aut whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>this is what we need to do, and you are

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<v Speaker 1>misdirecting the conversation by pushing this, say covetous proposal, or

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<v Speaker 1>however you want to characterize it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the way I would say it is that book

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<v Speaker 3>when you're holding up the duty is ours is a

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<v Speaker 3>cliff note biblical defense for the fact that Christians should

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<v Speaker 3>be engaged and in fact, in America's case, our declaration

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<v Speaker 3>of independence is actually our national founding Covenant. And the

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<v Speaker 3>punchline at the end of the seminar tonight is to

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<v Speaker 3>the biblical roadmap to restore America is that we need

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<v Speaker 3>to revisit our national founding Covenant and recommit like our

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<v Speaker 3>founders did.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I'll tell you what it's going to be a

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<v Speaker 1>fascinating conversation. Mark. I've really enjoyed our conversation this morning,

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<v Speaker 1>Mark Burrell tonight seven PM and Poweroamerica dot org makes

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<v Speaker 1>sure you RSVP is shown up in person or streaming

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<v Speaker 1>it live. Tell your friends about that one too. I

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<v Speaker 1>think everyone will get some great enlightenment at it and

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<v Speaker 1>enlightenment out of it. And you can also get his

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<v Speaker 1>books while you are there at two twenty five Northland Boulevard.

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<v Speaker 1>He's going to have his books right there or Amazon

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. You know what, Mark, I'll have Joe add

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<v Speaker 1>your links to Amazon dot com on my blog page

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<v Speaker 1>fifty five KRC dot com. Folks, stick around, I heart me.

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<v Speaker 1>The aviation expert Jay Rattle's going to join the program

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<v Speaker 1>right after the break. I'll be right back when we

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<v Speaker 1>win this election. Here's what we're going to do about it.

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<v Speaker 1>As months turn two weeks. Day one was fourteen hundred

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<v Speaker 1>days ago. What have you been doing? The countdown is on.

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<v Speaker 3>I fully intend to win this election. She's an extreme

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<v Speaker 3>radical left lunatic.

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<v Speaker 1>And our future is fast approaching.

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<v Speaker 3>He is a fight for our future and a vision

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<v Speaker 3>of our future.

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<v Speaker 1>The twenty twenty four election happens here.

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<v Speaker 2>Her vision Socialist on fifty five KRC