WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:02.799 What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the 2 00:00:02.799 --> 00:00:06.000 Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to get right 3 00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:11.560 back to the Sarah Kellen interview with Congress. Question. On 4 00:00:11.560 --> 00:00:14.839 October twentieth, two thousand and five, police executed a search 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.600 warrant for mister Epstein's pom Beach, Florida home. Were you 6 00:00:17.679 --> 00:00:21.239 present for the search? Answer? No? Question When did you 7 00:00:21.359 --> 00:00:24.120 learn that home had been raided? Answer? I don't recall 8 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.079 how I found out. It may have been one of 9 00:00:27.079 --> 00:00:29.559 the house staff members. I don't really have a recollection. 10 00:00:30.359 --> 00:00:34.119 Question did anyone tip mister Epstein off to the search warrant? Answer? 11 00:00:34.119 --> 00:00:37.119 I don't know. Question are you aware of any items 12 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:40.439 being removed from Jeffrey Epstein's pom Beach residents prior to 13 00:00:40.479 --> 00:00:44.280 the raid? Answer? Yes, he called another assistant and told 14 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:46.840 her to go to the house and remove the computers 15 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:51.079 from the house. Question who was that assistant? Answer redacted? 16 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:54.320 Question what did he tell her? Answer? I just overheard 17 00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:56.359 him on the phone with her, so I vaguely the 18 00:00:56.399 --> 00:00:59.280 gist was like, go to the house and take the computers, 19 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:01.439 and it was my understanding she was to give them 20 00:01:01.560 --> 00:01:05.239 to his attorney. Question do you know how mister Epstein 21 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.239 became aware of the search warrant? Answer I don't. Question 22 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.439 can you describe what he instructed her to remove from 23 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:14.159 the property? Answer, as far as I can remember, just 24 00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:17.519 the computers. Question did you witness her remove these items 25 00:01:17.680 --> 00:01:20.480 from the property? Answer? No, I was on the island 26 00:01:20.519 --> 00:01:23.359 with them when he called her. Question how did you 27 00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:26.000 overhear the phone call? Answer? I was in front of them. 28 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:29.159 Question did you learn that the items had in fact 29 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:32.439 been removed from the property? Answer? I assume they did, 30 00:01:32.760 --> 00:01:35.599 and I've read articles about it, so I assumed it happened. 31 00:01:36.319 --> 00:01:39.239 Question do you have any firsthand knowledge that the assistant 32 00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:42.359 was complicit in removing the items from the property. Did 33 00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:45.400 the assistant ever tell you? Ham jumps in, did you 34 00:01:45.480 --> 00:01:48.640 know that? Do you know if she did that? Brignac 35 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:50.920 And I'm going to ask that one more time so 36 00:01:50.959 --> 00:01:53.599 it's clear on the record. Did the assistant or anyone 37 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:56.239 else ever tell you that she had in fact remove 38 00:01:56.319 --> 00:01:59.640 the items from the property. Answer? I don't remember. Question 39 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.920 did you hear if anyone else removed the items from 40 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:06.040 the property? Ham like at the time, not what you've 41 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:09.319 heard since then, Kellen, It's hard to remember exactly what 42 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:13.120 I knew at the time versus what I've read. Brignac. Question, 43 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.280 what's your understanding of why he wanted those contents removed 44 00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:20.080 from the property? Answer? I don't know. Question were items 45 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.719 or records intentionally destroyed or withheld from the police as 46 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.879 part of the investigation? Answer? I don't know. I remember 47 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.080 I think it was Valentine's Day because I was having 48 00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:33.400 dinner with my then boyfriend and Jeffrey called me and 49 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.599 had me come leave the dinner to meet him at 50 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:37.840 his house in New York and he had lawyers there. 51 00:02:38.039 --> 00:02:41.560 Darren Endyke was there and a few of his other attorneys, 52 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:44.000 and he told me to gather various things from the 53 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.840 house and give it to his attorneys. Question, can you 54 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:50.400 list those items for me? And to that, Missham jumps 55 00:02:50.400 --> 00:02:53.560 in again. One second, can we go off record? Now 56 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:56.520 they're back on the record. Ham, We're just confirming on 57 00:02:56.560 --> 00:02:59.240 the victim piece of it. Brignac, I'm going to ask 58 00:02:59.240 --> 00:03:01.159 the question once more or for clarity on the record, 59 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:05.879 were items or records ever intentionally destroyed or withheld from 60 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:08.960 the police as part of the investigation. You said yes, 61 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:11.639 that items you were called and asked to turn over 62 00:03:11.680 --> 00:03:15.639 items to attorneys. I asked you to list those items. Ham. 63 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:18.719 Can we just clarify in terms of intentionally withheld from police. 64 00:03:18.960 --> 00:03:21.039 I'm not sure at the time you understood why you 65 00:03:21.039 --> 00:03:24.719 were collecting the information. Kellen correct. Ham, you were asked 66 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:27.000 to go I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, 67 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:30.080 but Kellen correct, I was just asked to go around 68 00:03:30.080 --> 00:03:32.840 the house and collect to give to the attorneys. I 69 00:03:32.879 --> 00:03:34.719 didn't know the purpose of what they were going to 70 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:38.759 do with the items. I didn't understand it. That was it. 71 00:03:39.039 --> 00:03:42.599 That's intentionally trying to get cut off by Brignac. Understood 72 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.919 you received an instruction from your boss to remove items 73 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:49.759 from the property. Answer. I didn't remove it. I was 74 00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:51.800 just gathering it from the floors in the house and 75 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.039 putting it in the dining room for the attorneys. I 76 00:03:54.039 --> 00:03:56.840 don't know what they did with it. Question Okay, can 77 00:03:56.840 --> 00:03:59.960 you list the items that you gathered into the dining room? Answered? 78 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:05.360 Directories and printed photographs? Question which directories? Answer all the 79 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:08.759 ones Glen's directory that she had printed and we're all 80 00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:12.960 around the houses. Question in which photographs? Ham, We're going 81 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:14.879 to ask her not to get into the specifics of 82 00:04:14.879 --> 00:04:17.600 photographs because I think that, based on the allegations that 83 00:04:17.639 --> 00:04:21.600 we've heard, could implicate other victims. Brignac, for the record, 84 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.199 are you refusing to answer the question? Answer? I would 85 00:04:25.279 --> 00:04:27.199 like to answer that question, but I need to listen 86 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.399 to my counsel Timmins. And again, for the record, if 87 00:04:30.399 --> 00:04:35.879 she had immunity, would you be able to answer that question? Ham? Yes, Brignac, 88 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:39.079 who instructed you? Ham jumps in again. Oh, I'm sorry 89 00:04:39.120 --> 00:04:40.639 if I can jump in, And I want to be 90 00:04:40.680 --> 00:04:43.720 clear because I think sometimes when people talk about immunity 91 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:47.959 there are some confusion. This would be use immunity. I mean, 92 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.319 I know that you know this, Congressman, but this would 93 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:56.040 be use immunity. It's not transactional immunity. She would be 94 00:04:56.040 --> 00:04:59.079 able to speak about items, you know, speak about issues 95 00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:02.839 to this committee, but it's not transactional immunity. Kellen, I 96 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:05.240 don't know what any of that means. Ham. I know 97 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.519 you don't, but it's fine. Go ahead. Brignac, who instructed 98 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:11.319 you to gather these items for the dining room? Answer 99 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:14.680 Jeffrey question? And what was your understanding of why these 100 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:17.720 items were being gathered? Answer to give it to the 101 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.240 attorneys that were working on the case. Question how long 102 00:05:21.279 --> 00:05:24.439 after the instruction did the ray take place? Answer? I 103 00:05:24.439 --> 00:05:26.800 don't believe his New York home was ever rated until 104 00:05:26.800 --> 00:05:30.560 twenty nineteen, which would have been some time probably two 105 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.240 thousand and six. Question were you aware of security cameras 106 00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:38.079 on mister Epstein's properties? Answer? He had cameras in the 107 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:40.279 New York house that were directed out to the street, 108 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:43.279 but I don't recall any cameras being inside at the 109 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:45.800 New York house. They were all at different angles on 110 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.600 the street. In Palm Beach, he had noticed someone was 111 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:50.759 stealing cash out of his bag a few times, and 112 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.079 he had pom Beach police come help put like two 113 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:56.560 hidden cameras by his like one by his desk and 114 00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.279 one I think in the garage to try and catch 115 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:01.399 whoever it was like breaking in and stealing his money. 116 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:03.759 And they caught the old house man that was fired 117 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:08.199 sneaking in and stealing It was actually Larry Vasoski who 118 00:06:08.240 --> 00:06:11.839 put cameras in a clean xbox. Hell of a job 119 00:06:11.879 --> 00:06:15.560 for a pilot, huh. Question was the camera footage ever 120 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:18.399 turned over to the police or FBI? Answer? I don't 121 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:21.439 recall exactly what happened with the footage or yeah, question 122 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.720 do you have access to the camera footage or did 123 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:26.720 you have access to the camera footage? Answer? I don't remember, 124 00:06:27.120 --> 00:06:29.600 but I think it had gone to one of the computers. 125 00:06:29.959 --> 00:06:32.519 There's an office in the kitchen. There was a desktop, 126 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.279 and I'm fairly certain it somehow was connected to the computer. 127 00:06:36.439 --> 00:06:38.560 Tion im miss Kellen, there have been allegations at the 128 00:06:38.560 --> 00:06:41.680 camera footage has been used for black mail purposes. How 129 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:44.879 do you respond to that allegation? Answer? I'm not aware 130 00:06:44.879 --> 00:06:47.240 of any black mailing yet. Tell that to Bill Gates. 131 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:51.639 Question and are you aware of whether the computer hard 132 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:54.639 drives were removed from the Palm Beach residence prior to 133 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:57.120 the raid of the Palm Beach residence in October two 134 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:00.079 thousand and five? Answer only what I just discribed VI 135 00:07:00.519 --> 00:07:03.519 as him telling his other assistant to remove them. Timmins, 136 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:07.560 you have described physical violence, choking, and other physical interactions. 137 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:13.000 Did any of those interactions result in visible bruising abrasions? Kellen? 138 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:18.399 Nonverbal response? Timmins, No, Kellen, no Brignac. You reference gifts 139 00:07:18.399 --> 00:07:21.759 that mister Epstein received while he was imprisoned. Who provided 140 00:07:21.800 --> 00:07:25.000 these gifts to Epstein? Ham? I don't think she mentioned 141 00:07:25.000 --> 00:07:27.120 that sort of but she interpreted to be sort of 142 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:30.519 special favors like Skype, and that you understand that at 143 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.160 his direction gifts were being given to people, not to 144 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:38.240 mister Epstein, but given gifts to others, Miss Kellen, Right, Brignac, question, 145 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:41.279 the cash and the Disney tickets were someone else from 146 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:45.399 mister Epstein? Is that correct? Answer? Correct question? Okay? Were 147 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:49.279 massages a part of Epstein's routine day? Ham? Yeah, I 148 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:51.959 think we're going to avoid massages. Just again. I know 149 00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:54.199 that the allegations are in this case, and I don't 150 00:07:54.240 --> 00:07:56.920 want to get her into the other victims. Brignac And 151 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.920 for the record, are you refusing to answer the question, Kellen? 152 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:02.759 I would like to answer the question, I really would, 153 00:08:02.920 --> 00:08:06.279 but I need to listen to my counsel. Brignac. How 154 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:10.120 was contact information for the messuses procured? Ham? This is 155 00:08:10.160 --> 00:08:12.920 the same issue, Brignac. And for the record, are you 156 00:08:12.959 --> 00:08:16.759 refusing to answer the question? Ham? I'm asking her just 157 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:18.680 based on the scope that we lay it out, and 158 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:21.879 given that this is a voluntary interview to avoid certain topics, 159 00:08:22.279 --> 00:08:24.360 and I hope that people do not infer anything by 160 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:29.040 her silence. Sorry, we do, okay, we do. This is 161 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:33.360 just another sham voluntary interview, no teeth. Nothing happens if 162 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.679 she lies, and I hope that people do not infer 163 00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:41.080 anything by her silence. She wishes, as she mentioned many times, 164 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:44.279 that she could talk on these subjects, but this is 165 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:46.960 not unfortunately, has not been presented to her in a 166 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:50.960 format in which that is possible. Timmins. But should the 167 00:08:50.960 --> 00:08:55.759 committee provide immunity, she would be able to answer the questions. Ham, Yeah, Timmins, Okay, 168 00:08:56.000 --> 00:08:58.480 And that's because she's guilty. I hate to say of folks, 169 00:08:58.559 --> 00:09:01.159 but she's guilty. Now two things can be true at 170 00:09:01.159 --> 00:09:04.120 the same time. Sure, she was victimized by Epstein, but 171 00:09:04.200 --> 00:09:07.080 she's also guilty. Brignac. Can you provide the committee with 172 00:09:07.120 --> 00:09:10.279 an age range of the messuses that came to the house, Pam, 173 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:13.879 this is the same issue. Thank you, Brignac for the record. 174 00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:16.840 Are you refusing to answer the question? Pam, for the record. 175 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:19.399 I've asked her, based on the scope that she's prepared 176 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:23.039 to discuss today, to not answer these questions, but as 177 00:09:23.039 --> 00:09:25.159 she mentioned many times, she would have preferred to be 178 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.720 answering them, Miss Brignac, is that a yes, Kellen. I 179 00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:31.639 need to listen to my counsel's advice. Question, Miss Kellen, 180 00:09:32.039 --> 00:09:34.399 are you familiar with the birthday book that was compiled 181 00:09:34.440 --> 00:09:37.559 for mister Epstein's fiftieth birthday in January of two thousand 182 00:09:37.559 --> 00:09:40.639 and three? Answer yes. Question what was your role with 183 00:09:40.759 --> 00:09:43.399 the birthday book? Answer? I helped put it together, kind 184 00:09:43.399 --> 00:09:45.639 of scan the entries and take it to a binder 185 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:48.759 so that it's bound into a leather bound. I think 186 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:51.480 there were two or three books that it entelled. Question 187 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.120 did you make a submission to the birthday book? Answer? 188 00:09:54.200 --> 00:10:00.000 I did, Kellen. Majority Exhibit number one was marked for identification. Briniant, 189 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:03.080 I would like to introduce majority Exhibit one. This is 190 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.200 the letter from a book that was compiled as a 191 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:09.200 gift for Jeffrey Epstein's fiftieth birthday in January two thousand 192 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:12.159 and three by Glenn Maxwell. I'll give you a moment 193 00:10:12.200 --> 00:10:16.399 to review, and please let me know when you're ready. Ham, 194 00:10:16.639 --> 00:10:18.320 Is there a certain page you wanted to look at? Her? 195 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:22.600 The whole thing? Brignac, the whole thing? Question ready? Answer? 196 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:25.440 Uh huh. Question. The Committee is aware that these letters 197 00:10:25.440 --> 00:10:29.600 and pictures contain redactions. However, the unredacted version of that 198 00:10:29.639 --> 00:10:32.919 photo on page four has been made publicly available and 199 00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:35.639 therefore the committee believes a submission to be made by you. 200 00:10:35.759 --> 00:10:38.960 Is that correct? Answer? It's not my submission, but this 201 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.039 is a photo of me and him. Question who submitted 202 00:10:42.039 --> 00:10:45.559 this compilation of letters and photographs? Answer? It was another 203 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:49.200 assistant Ham. It's fine, We'll ask four redactions at the end. 204 00:10:49.720 --> 00:10:53.720 Brignac redacted. Did miss Maxwell provide or redacted provide you 205 00:10:53.960 --> 00:10:56.919 with any instructions or suggestions for what you should write 206 00:10:56.919 --> 00:10:59.360 in the birthday book? Kellen? I mean, she's the one 207 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:01.960 that asked for us give submissions. I didn't remember what 208 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.360 I submitted until I saw it in the files. I 209 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:06.240 think she did help with the kind of the reference 210 00:11:06.240 --> 00:11:10.200 of what I submitted, Tolan, And what was your submission, Kellen? 211 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.600 It was also like photographs of me in a bikini, 212 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.120 and I think it was like showing gratitude, basically saying 213 00:11:17.159 --> 00:11:19.840 that I was like nothing. I don't remember the exact words, 214 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:22.720 like the gist, like you know, I had nothing, I'm 215 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:26.440 grateful for kind of what you've given me sort of thing, Brignac. 216 00:11:27.039 --> 00:11:30.159 Alongside those bikini photos, the entry states and I quote 217 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:34.000 and thought you might like ellipses some bikini shots. Did 218 00:11:34.000 --> 00:11:36.720 you write this, Kellen, no in this submission. No, that's 219 00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:40.720 not me. Ham, that's not you, Kellen, No, Ham, Yeah, 220 00:11:40.759 --> 00:11:45.480 this two twenty four is not her. I think page two. Brignac. 221 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.120 Do you know why this collection of letters and photographs 222 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.000 might have been grouped together for the book? Kellen? I don't. 223 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:53.879 I'm not sure why redacted would have included a photo 224 00:11:53.919 --> 00:11:58.440 of myself in her submission. Brignac. Thank you. All right, folks, 225 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.240 we're gonna wrap up right here and in the next 226 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:02.159 episode dealing with the topic, we're going to pick up 227 00:12:02.200 --> 00:12:05.159 where we left off. All the information that goes with 228 00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:09.879 this episode can be found in the description box. What's up, everyone, 229 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:14.080 and welcome to another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In 230 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:15.919 this episode, we're going to pick up where we left 231 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:21.039 off with the Sarah Helen interview with Congress Ms Toland 232 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:23.679 and then just to go back to something that you 233 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:26.679 mentioned earlier. You had mentioned that mister Dyke helped you 234 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:30.919 get an attorney at some point? Is that correct answer? Yes? Question, 235 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.440 and I apologize if this is repetitive, But at what 236 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:38.080 time frame was that answer? I believe for sure around 237 00:12:38.120 --> 00:12:41.360 twenty fifteen. I'm trying to think if it was sooner 238 00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:43.600 than that. I don't know if he had anything to 239 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.399 do with my very first attorney, Bruce Reinhart, but he 240 00:12:46.399 --> 00:12:49.279 helped higher. I think it was twenty fifteen. It was 241 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:52.679 Scott Link, Justin Chew, and a few others that I 242 00:12:52.720 --> 00:12:55.559 don't remember that. I think it may have been two 243 00:12:55.559 --> 00:12:59.480 different firms. Question that's okay, I'd actually like to talk 244 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:01.799 about Bruce's rein Hart. You said that he was your 245 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.679 first attorney. One was that answer two thousand and eight 246 00:13:05.799 --> 00:13:08.879 or nine? Probably question for the purpose of the non 247 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:14.159 prosecution agreement or something separate? Answer? No, just to represent 248 00:13:14.200 --> 00:13:17.799 me in a deposition for a civil suit. Question okay. 249 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:20.200 And did Jeffrey Epstein help Was he involved in that 250 00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.720 process at all? Answer? Yes, question getting the attorney? Answer 251 00:13:24.879 --> 00:13:27.919 he found them, he hired him, he paid him. He 252 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:32.759 would have discussions with Bruce about my depositions. Question And 253 00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.840 what did you understand his Bruce Reinhardt's relationship to be 254 00:13:36.200 --> 00:13:40.960 with Jeffrey Epstein. Answer Bruce shared an office with Jeffrey's attorney, 255 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.080 Jack Goldberger, so I felt more like he was working 256 00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:47.519 for him and not me. Question And did you know 257 00:13:47.559 --> 00:13:49.519 if mister rein Hart was still working for the US 258 00:13:49.559 --> 00:13:53.399 Attorney's Office at that time. Answer, I don't think I 259 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:55.879 was aware that he worked for the US Attorney's Office 260 00:13:56.080 --> 00:14:01.840 until much later. Question okay, answer yeah, thank you, Miss Brynac. 261 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:04.639 Can you list for us the associates of mister Epstein 262 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.000 that you interacted with the most frequently in working for 263 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:11.120 mister Epstein? Miss am like other people that work for 264 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:15.120 mister Epstein or provided services to mister Epstein. Yes, staff 265 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:20.360 or outside people, Miss Brynac. Staff. The question is can 266 00:14:20.399 --> 00:14:23.159 you list for me the other associates of mister Epstein 267 00:14:23.559 --> 00:14:26.440 that you work with most frequently in your role as 268 00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:31.080 his assistant? Answer? All the house staff, the pilots, the chefs. 269 00:14:31.759 --> 00:14:34.519 Question is there anyone that we have not yet referenced 270 00:14:34.639 --> 00:14:37.679 today that you work with frequently in your position as 271 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:42.039 his assistant? Answer? I mean all the house staff. Richard Barnett, Lynn, 272 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:48.399 Jojo Fontania, Jani SEUs banisek Luela Rabbeo Bryce and Karen Gordon, 273 00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:51.399 Valdsen Kotrin. I mean those would have been the ones 274 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:53.799 that were around the longest. In the house staff. They 275 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.159 always ended. I mean most of the house staff work 276 00:14:56.240 --> 00:15:00.360 for him for probably twenty years. Question where any of 277 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:04.759 them aware of the abuse by mister Epstein's toward you. Answer. 278 00:15:04.879 --> 00:15:07.159 The house staff would have been aware when I slept 279 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:09.279 in his bed, for sure New York, when he would 280 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.879 call me and have me sleep with him, because they 281 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:13.480 would have to open the door for me when I 282 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.759 came over at night. What extent they knew what was happening, 283 00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:19.679 I don't know, but they would have known that I 284 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:23.279 had spent the night. Question can you name them? Answer 285 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:26.480 Lennon Jojo Fontania. I feel like the island staff would 286 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:30.240 have been aware. Question who would that be? Answer Miles 287 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.399 and Kathy Alexander for the first few years, and then 288 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.720 Bryce and Karen Gordon during the latter part. Question Thank you, 289 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.320 mister Emmer. We've had another member join. Can she please 290 00:15:41.320 --> 00:15:45.559 introduce herself for the record. Miss Stansbury, Good afternoon. I'm 291 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:50.919 Congresswoman Stansbury, New Mexico's first congressional district. Thank you, mister Emmer. 292 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:53.559 Miss Bobert, I believe you had some questions that you 293 00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:57.519 wanted to ask. Miss Bobert. Yeah, in some redacted files, 294 00:15:57.519 --> 00:16:01.480 you're listed as number five as a co conspirator. If 295 00:16:01.519 --> 00:16:03.720 you had immunity, would you be able to give information 296 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:07.960 about the other people that are listed as co conspirators. Kellen, 297 00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:11.440 I don't know that that's a fair representation. Bobert. Did 298 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.159 the DOJ ever interview you and tell you that you 299 00:16:14.200 --> 00:16:17.440 were a co conspirator? Kellen? No, I wasn't aware that 300 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.840 I was being included in his non prosecution agreement. Bobert. 301 00:16:21.879 --> 00:16:25.039 How much time do we have remaining? Tol in five minutes? 302 00:16:25.799 --> 00:16:29.159 Bobert Okay. There's an email that was redacted, and the 303 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.639 email is to Sarah Kay. There are a couple of 304 00:16:31.639 --> 00:16:34.559 Sarah Kays in these files that have been redacted. This 305 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:37.320 would be from Francis Derby and this is you or 306 00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:40.519 excuse me, Sarah Kay, saying that Jeffrey Epstein was going 307 00:16:40.519 --> 00:16:43.480 to start eating regular food again and eating less jerky. 308 00:16:43.879 --> 00:16:47.039 Are you familiar with this email, miss Kellen? Vaguely with 309 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.720 the subject, Bobert okay, So that said he has six 310 00:16:50.759 --> 00:16:53.200 bags of it downstairs in his freezer for his next trip. 311 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:56.320 I know that you've answered some reference to these food questions, 312 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.960 but is this one hundred percent undoubtedly regular normal beef 313 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.160 jerky from an animal that people consume, Kellen, one hundred percent, 314 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.200 Miss Bobert. Where gets cut off by Kellen? The chef 315 00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:10.960 made homemade beef jerky for Jeffrey and he was obsessed 316 00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:15.160 with it. Bolbert. What chef was this? Kellen Francis Derby 317 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.559 was the chef? Bobert Okay, And did you ever order 318 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.480 specific items that were unusual? We saw that there was 319 00:17:21.519 --> 00:17:24.279 a large purchase of sulfuric acid toward the end of 320 00:17:24.319 --> 00:17:27.599 Jeffrey Epstein's stay on Little Saint James Island. Did you 321 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.920 ever see such purchases made? Kellen no, Ham, do you 322 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.240 have the time period for that, just to the extent 323 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:37.240 it might help, Bolbert, I can get that time period. 324 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.599 It was much later. It was probably around twenty nineteen 325 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.559 or so that that happened. Ham. Oh, she wasn't working, 326 00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:49.079 so she would know. Bolbert correct. I'm just asking if 327 00:17:49.079 --> 00:17:52.680 in your time did you see any unusual purchases like 328 00:17:52.680 --> 00:17:58.759 one hundreds of gallons of sulfuric acid being made? Kellen no, Bobert. 329 00:17:58.960 --> 00:18:01.440 In every piece of course respondence you had with Jeffrey 330 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.440 Epstein and his associates, the words you said were the 331 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:07.279 exact words you meant, and there were no coding. There 332 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:11.799 was no coding use whatsoever. Kellen correct, Bobert Okay, that's 333 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:15.000 all I have Brignak, is there anything that I have 334 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:17.319 not asked you today that you believe is relevant to 335 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:20.400 this inquiry? Kellen, I think in general that I would 336 00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:22.880 like to kind of bring awareness to and I said 337 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.319 it in the beginning of just being educated on the 338 00:18:26.359 --> 00:18:29.839 grooming process. I think it's really important because I think 339 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.240 there's been so much sensationalism and so many conspiracy theories 340 00:18:33.279 --> 00:18:36.400 around Jeffrey that it has become. I think the dangers 341 00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.960 are that people think it was such an open thing 342 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.039 and there was so many things happening out in the open, 343 00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.359 and how did nobody know what was going on? But 344 00:18:45.599 --> 00:18:48.519 I think Jeffrey was a true master manipulator, and he 345 00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:51.640 knew how to compartmentalize and what he allowed certain people 346 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:54.480 to see and know. And I think it's because it 347 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:57.319 wasn't so obvious that it's really important part for people 348 00:18:57.359 --> 00:19:00.279 to understand, and it's more important if you want to 349 00:19:00.319 --> 00:19:04.160 have bring awareness to this to other situations, so people 350 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:07.359 it's like the covert nature of it, like the grooming 351 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:10.480 and you know the targeting of vulnerable victims, gaining their 352 00:19:10.519 --> 00:19:14.279 trust kind of essentially trapping them. It's more of the 353 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:17.839 psychological abuse more than anything that allows for the sexual 354 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:21.480 abuse to happen. So I kind of think educating people 355 00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:23.839 on that is really important because a lot of people 356 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:27.839 don't understand how it works from the outside. They kind 357 00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:31.200 of say, like, why didn't you leave, or how didn't 358 00:19:31.240 --> 00:19:33.839 you know this? Or how didn't you know that. It's 359 00:19:33.920 --> 00:19:36.960 kind of like the gas lighting and the control. Brignac, 360 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.440 thank you, miss Ham. Could I just clarify one thing 361 00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:43.680 if we have time, Just mister Berlison asked you about 362 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:46.640 meetings with Ehud Barack, and I know you mentioned New York, 363 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:50.519 but you met with Barack in other countries as well, Kelln, 364 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:54.359 in Israel. Ham, Yeah, I just want to be clear 365 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:57.279 that the meetings weren't just in New York, Kelln. We 366 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:59.319 were in Israel with at w Hood Barrock one time, 367 00:20:00.599 --> 00:20:03.160 and there was never times where he was briefing or 368 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.559 being briefed. Did you see that, Kellen. I wouldn't have 369 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.759 been present like in their private meetings, Berlisten, it was 370 00:20:09.799 --> 00:20:12.880 all just personal, Kellen. I don't know what the subject 371 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:16.440 matters were. They seem to meet each other quite often, 372 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:18.599 but I don't know what the subject matter was in 373 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:23.240 their discussion Brignac, Miss Kellen, there were instances today in 374 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:26.880 which you refuse to answer. We understand that you're here voluntarily, 375 00:20:27.279 --> 00:20:30.759 and we appreciate your testimony for the record. Would you 376 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:34.319 invoke your Fifth Amendment rights against self incrimination in response 377 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:36.960 to any or all of the questions if you were 378 00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.440 compelled to answer them in another setting, Miss Ham, I 379 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.720 think we'd have to go through those questions by question, 380 00:20:44.119 --> 00:20:47.519 and so we've identified what she's able to talk about today. 381 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:50.000 But to go through a question by question in a 382 00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:53.839 voluntary setting, in a non deposition about how she would respond, 383 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:57.000 we're not prepared to do that. You know, as I've mentioned, 384 00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:00.160 I think the record reflects this. She's answered a lot 385 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:03.240 of questions today and she truly is trying to be 386 00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:06.599 helpful to the committee's investigation. But we have to consider 387 00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:09.839 the impact on her, consider the impact on other victims, 388 00:21:10.039 --> 00:21:13.359 and consider you know, her legal rights and her protection. 389 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:16.440 And so we're trying to give as much information as 390 00:21:16.440 --> 00:21:21.279 we can under those parameters. Miss Brignac, thank you, Chairman. 391 00:21:21.359 --> 00:21:25.079 Comer Miss Kellen, We greatly appreciate your willingness to come 392 00:21:25.079 --> 00:21:27.759 in today. I can't imagine how difficult this has been 393 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.559 for you, but this has been very helpful to us, 394 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.039 and we sincerely want to provide justice for the survivors, 395 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:37.400 and I think your testimony today has been very helpful 396 00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:40.920 for us. So just on the behalf of the oversight committee, 397 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:43.640 I want to thank you for being here today. Kellen, 398 00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:47.039 Thank you, Brignac. We'll go off the record now they're 399 00:21:47.039 --> 00:21:52.880 back on the record. Question, Miss Kellen, good afternoon. Answer, Hi, question. 400 00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:55.599 I'm going to start by following up on the conversation 401 00:21:55.759 --> 00:21:58.880