Speaker 1: What is up? Fela Siko's I'm Dana Valley coming at
you with another twenty twenty five twenty twenty six NBA
season look ahead. They're rolling out fast and furious, so
subscribe if you have not already. We're onto the Milwaukee Bucks,
which means I have the distinct pleasure of being joined
by the one, the only, mister Ty Windish of the
Eurostep podcast. They do a fantastic job covering all things
Bucks and Wisconsin sports over there. We've sided them on
this podcast many times throughout the season. Go check him
to his co host Rohan Katti out. Follow him on
the social machines at Tywindish. That's at T I W
I N D I s c h TYE. How the
heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: Doing great? I'm so glad to be back. I tell
you every time my favorite podcast I do every single year.
How many years? I mean, I don't want to put
you on the spot. It feels like this is I mean,
we've done this for a while.
Speaker 1: I yeah, I think this is like year seven of
look Aheads. It might be year six for you, feels right.
I said year five when I was talking to Justin
Rowan the other day, and then I realized I was like,
oh no, this is like his seventh year doing it
after we got off, which is which is a little
insane when you actually think about.
Speaker 2: It, Rogers, I've been doing I've been doing this stuff
out and off since like twenty fifteen, so it's like
year ten over all. That to me is like absolutely insane.
Speaker 1: I started in twenty eleven. Feel ancient. Nice, Yes, Like
coming fresh out of when everyone was planning around Lebron's
free agency is like kind of when I like I
entered right after that. We're obviously here to talk about
nothing except be honest, attend to Koupo trade packages.
Speaker 2: Because that's thirty five of them, yep.
Speaker 1: Thirty five packages, one for each team, and then doubling
up on some No, we're here talking about the box
you ended up having. If you had told me they
didn't trade Giannis this offseason, I would have won believed you.
But if you would have also have told me that
they ended up having one of the most fascinating off seasons,
I wouldn't have believed you. They went ahead and they
did that. So we have to start there is before
digging into just like fits individual moves, what did you
just make of everything that happened this summer?
Speaker 2: It was, it was insane. I certainly didn't see it coming.
And actually the funniest thing was somebody, somebody who follows
me asked me like a month before free agency, like, oh,
couldn't they wave and stretch Dame and f cap space?
And I was like, no, that's that's ludicrous, Like they
they certainly wouldn't do that, I think, you know whatever,
And then of course they did, and they end up
signing Miles Turner. So I had to go apologize and
give that person a shout out because like, what a call?
What a call? Right there? Uh? And I we trod
ourselves on like really annoying the Bucks and their options
and being creative and like they could do sign and trades,
they could do, you know, be over the cap and
then have the full MLLE. That was our big excitement
of this summer, was like, oh my god, full MLLE.
But they'll probably have to split it and use a
lot on Gary Trent and then a lot, but whatever,
maybe they can add like one more nice role player
and then they go ahead and wave and stretch Damian Lillard,
which I think the skepticism of that move long term
is obviously fair and thinking it wasn't worth it to
add Miles Turner. I understand where folks are coming from
with that. I do, and I've always been a team
never stretch guys. So maybe I'm just a bootlicker here.
I just think it was gonna be dead money on
their books this year no matter what, because he wasn't
going to play. Damian Lillard and Jannis just turned thirty
in December about half a year ago, and they I
just don't think they were ever interested in this concept
of a gap year of like, oh well, trade Dame
if he gets healthy toward the end of the year
and you know, accumulate our picks and reset the books
a little bit. And I just don't think. I don't
think it's even necessarily about like, oh, Yiannis wouldn't tolerate that.
I think John Horace has been pretty fanatical trying to
win no matter the cost of assets, of salary cap whatever,
every single year since the Honest became that level of player.
And he said as much at the Miles Turner press conference.
It was pretty funny, actually, he was asked like, oh,
the East is open, so is that why you did
this dame thing, and he's like, no, we just do
this stuff like this is just what we do, Like
we just really want to win right now with the honest,
and they're clearly going to pay for it in the
latter years of it. But I admire that fanaticism. I think,
you know what, you have a guy like this, You're
probably not gonna have another guy like this for fifty
eight years ish, that's what it took the last time
till now you might as well. So we can talk
about the individual moves and everything. But I like that
they just continue to be like, you know what, let's
just in for a penny, in for a pound. We
want to win with the honest on our basketball team.
I think it's a good a good general approach, even
if you disagree with how they go about it.
Speaker 1: So I definitely think the approach is debatable. But I've
seen like too many just trying to correlate what Phoenix
did versus what Milwaukee did. And what Milwaukee did wasn't
just to cut its payroll so that it could lessen
its tax bill. It was to get someone who's actually
a perfect fit alongside their best player. And you don't
get to frame it as Phoenix will like they needed
to do this so Devin Booker would stay. Devin Booker
signed the contract, while the Suns actively got worse when
you think about it, because Bradley Buhle is I guess
you could say addition by subtraction. They have Jalen Green,
Dillan Brooks, now whatever you traded Kevin Durant, So in theory,
you're worse, and he signed the extension. Anyway. What I
also think that you mentioned that's really important. I think
sometimes people miss is the concept of a gap year
in Milwaukee never really made any sense. They don't own
their own first round picks. I like some of their
young guys, but like, is aj Green gonna make an
All Star Game in two years because he went through
a gap year during the twenty five twenty six season.
Probably not. And you bring it back to Giannis the
dead money in this situation, if you don't have Giannis,
it doesn't fucking matter. If we might, I think reasonable
minds will disagree with how good are the Bucks after this?
It seems to me that they very still need another
move or two if they want, even as wide open
as the East is. But what you did, I would argue,
and this was my reading. You could tell me if
I'm wrong. At the bare minimum was you bought yourself
this season with Yiannis attent to Kumpo, so you can
turn around next summer. You'll have three first round picks
to trade. Maybe someone shakes loose and becomes available, and
if it doesn't work out, you still got another year
with one of the greatest players in NBA history, who,
as you just said, is not going to come around
for another three, four or five generations, however long it takes.
So I look, they can quibble over it and be
like they should have done something. No, this wasn't. I
totally get it. But like, if you think a Yani's
trade is inevitable, that actually makes this dead money matter
less because where were the bucks going without Gianna's. Okay,
we just set twenty two point five million dollars on
cap space on fire per year. It's gonna take you
three years at least to recover from losing you honest,
if you don't own your own pick. So I understand
what they did. My level of support has waxed and waned,
but as we've gotten into we haven't done our offseason
grades around on this podcast yet, and I've started to
think more about it, I land closer to where you
are where it's just I respect it. They didn't necessarily
have all these other options on the table, and you
have Giannis now, as you mentioned, he turned thirty, so
unless Miles Turners do for a downturn, and I think
some people are just assigning too much value to the
way he played in the finals and the team that
he was going to do. Kluma Saint Thunder are one team.
There's no other team like them in the NBA. So
I think I support what they did. And I've just
been the hashtag. You mentioned this before, we helped on
the hashtag discourse around it. I just I think it
misses too many of the marks. It's not just a
misunderstanding here and there. It feels like a fundamental misinterpretation
of where the Bucks actually were at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think to your point of and I
don't understand why the concept is like, oh, and you know,
they added Miles Turner and that's all they're ever gonna
do in this iteration of the team. Like, I think
they're very aggressive in trade talks. I think they've been
linked to like everyone from Kaminga to like other players
on the market. I don't think they're gonna go get
Kaminga like they it's.
Speaker 1: A terrible peace, don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, terrible fit frankly, but I think they just always
pop up everywhere. They have two picks currently, or they
have a pick and a swap. Excuse me, they could
trade right now thirty one and thirty two, and as
we saw like with Denver doing that, like one future
Denver pick turned Michael Porter Junior into Cam Johnson, which
I think people think is a relative upgrade at least,
you know, in the in the near term. I think
Milwaukee has that Kusma contract and a first in a
swap to trade as well. I don't think. I don't.
I don't know if that's a minute, but I think
they're always exploring, Like I don't. I don't think they're done.
I think you look at it from the idea of
trying to compete with the Honest, even if you're not.
It's always framed as like, oh, this is desperation to
try and keep him, which maybe it is. I also
just think they really want to be as good as
they can, and the Honest's early thirties, because as well
as he's aged so far, you just never know. And
I think about Embiid and Darryl Moriy a lot, and
like they did the gap year, and I don't think
he ended up being particularly healthy that year anyway, But like, Okay, great,
you signed Paul George. That doesn't age well, and now
we don't know if MB's gonna have another healthy season.
Obviously you can't really compare those two in terms of availability.
But I just think the Bucks and Giannis look at
that and go, yeah, we don't want to miss them.
We don't want to miss the last healthy, honest season
without knowing it by saying like, oh, we're going to
gear up for the next three I just don't think
that's how they want to approach it. Whereas like Tatum
and Halliburton are so young and the injuries are so
severe to them, those teams I think are fine doing that,
and it makes a lot of sense. I don't think
it did for Milwaukee, but they kind of squeeze an
extra player acquisition out of this, because you could say, oh,
why not like dump Dame's contract via trade, and then
you know you don't have all this dead money and
it's like, well, great, that's obviously going to cost a lot.
And if it costs to your picks to do that
or turn them into like a mediocre player, I mean
you send him back for like Jeremy Grant, Like okay,
so now you have no picks and you have Jeremy
Grant versus this way. You take the dead money hit
for five years, which is going to be difficult for them,
but you get Miles Turner and you still have your
picks and you can still go then do something else.
So I think it's kind of them squeezing the most
possible asset acquisition out of this in terms of we
can make our trade later if we want to or
if we have the availability to, and we add Turner
in the short term for you know, basically just exchanging
dead money for Miles Turner. Not a big contract, but
I don't think they have an issue with that one.
Speaker 1: So Miles Turner, aside from the age difference between him
and Rolo, let's let's start with offense. Where do you
see him making the biggest difference? Upgrade change however you
want to frame.
Speaker 2: It, Yeah, I think just I think both ends it's
gonna be the mobility right like as great as Brook
Lopez as a Buck has been, certainly no one would
watch him play from Milwaukee and just go like, oh, yeah,
that guy is. You know, you can't if you're too slow,
He's gonna punish you. He he was the too slow guy,
and I think has not become super like appreciably slower
versus his early Bucks days, but that half step here
or there has really added up. And I think even
even when he's been able to be in drop and
around the rim on defense, Lopez like not quite the
same impact this last year as years passed, not quite
getting over quick enough, whereas Turner I think is just
so fast. So I think offensively, I'm excited to see,
you know, of course the pick and pop is there.
I think he's probably got a more comfortable mid range
game than Lopez, so I think that makes some exciting combos.
I think we'll see more of Janni's ball handling and
pick and roll, which was secretly always very devastating when
Lopez would roll for him. So I think Turner, there's
a bunch of options there, and the more comfortable mid
range should present some opportunities for that as well. But
also just like, you know, being able to like cut
and dunk or get to the rim a little bit
more than Lopez was in the later years. I think
kind of fits with their whole ethos of like we
still want the stretch big, like that's still very important
to go with Yannis, of course, but the whole team
is like we don't want the old guys, we don't
want the non athletes. We're gonna have athletes and shooting
around Giannis. Turner checks both boxes while bringing you a
lot of what Brooke did and to your point from earlier,
like you said, kind of a perfect front court fit
with Yannis going forward in that sense, do.
Speaker 1: You have any concerns about So he was very dependent
on the playmaking in Indiana around him, and you zero
it to just Tyre's Haliburt, and over the last three
years playoffs in regular season his three point percentage dipped
by basically eight points without Haliburt on the court. I
know Jannis has improved as a passer, and we'll get
into that, but do you have any level of concern about, well,
what does this look like in Milwauwaukee when you're going
from Tyre's Haliburton as your best pass or even let's
say Pascal Siakam or one of their TJ McConnell's your
second best passer versus Milwaukee where it's Yannis and then
like now we're getting into like a bunch of dudes
after that, not as.
Speaker 2: Much, because I think he's gonna be Yannis a lot
in terms of their minutes, if I had to guess,
And Haliburton's obviously a better passer than the Honest, but
Yannis a affects floor gravity in a way that nobody
on Indiana can. And I just think we've seen it's
been pretty rare that a shooter comes to Milwaukee and
dips in how well they hit their threes. It was
kind of a running joke that players would in the
playoffs earlier in the Honest tenure. But these days, most
of the time when they bring someone in, especially in
the regular season, they're able to feast on those looks
because you just even without the second star, so to speak,
you just can't only send one player at the Honest,
and usually that help is going to come from the big,
especially if it's a stretch big, or maybe you know
someone else on the floor who's not as capable of
a shooter, although again they don't They're not going to
roll out many of those this season. So I think
Giannis is good at setting up players as great at
setting up players as a playmaker, and there's just the
gravity opening continue to knock them down. Will see, of course,
but I'm a pretty big believer that Yannis is fit
next to a player like that should compensate for losing
the like excellent playmaking of Halibert.
Speaker 1: You kind of mentioned already that Turner would be suited
to play either different styles defensively or more aggressive styles defensively.
Do you believe that Doc Rivers is going to like
kind of test the limits of that additional layer of
versatility from him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think Doc has been a
pretty funky defensive coach as the Bucks since he took
over Milwaukee. I think most people's issues with him are
more lineup based than like schematically what they're running on offense.
We wanted more Dame and Giannis pick and roll, but
that dated back before Doc as well. I don't know, really,
I think there was a lot going on in that
particular subject matter. But I think they've they've used more
zone than we ever saw under Bud and I think
Turner could play. Like they can do a pretty devastating
around the basket zone with Turner and Yannis manning at
those areas, although they often do it with the all
their lineups too. But I think, uh, they'll be able
to switch more as well. Which the last season, like
they were zero and four against the Knicks or oh
and three or four and oh and four against the Calves,
And I think especially against the Knicks, they just had
nothing for Towns outside of Giannis, like they Brooke just
couldn't do it. And you know, if brook is on
the court, you kind of need to regard Towns like
they I think they tried maybe Bridges for a little bit.
It didn't go very well, trying to just kind of
leave him open. But Towns was too quick for Lopez
and too strong for Portous when they would try him
as well. And I just think Turner being able to
move so like you can switch if there's a switch
big there, I think their default will still be dropped
and that's fine. Even if he's a little less effective
than Lopez, He'll be able to recover out more. I
think they will do probably more switching, probably more zone, uh,
and even just like hedging and stuff like that, where
it just became more and more difficult for Lopez to
do anything but the traditional drop.
Speaker 1: On the front. What are your impressions of them going
like by the end of last year, like in a
full on point Honis experience.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like it a lot. I think I'm glad
that they balance it with the unproven point guards with him,
so it's not totally just like he brings the ball
up every time and initiates every offensive set. I think
there's a lot of that, of course, but they do
have almost the release valves of whether it's going to
be Kevin Porter, Junior, Ryan Rollins, or Cole Anthony out
there with him. I think they'll always be at least
one of those players and pretty much every lineup if
I had to guess who can do a little bit
of slashing, a little bit of playmaking or even KP
Jay's case ended up he had a really nice lob
chemistry with the Honest, and that was a play they
ran a lot down the stretch. I think he probably
gets to start we probably see some more of that
as well. But I'm a fan of the point Honest,
and I think crucially he is too. He talked about
after the Pacers series seeing that as kind of his
next evolution of a player, kind of being more of
the all handler or at least like the heliocentric kind
of option, And I think it makes a lot of sense.
I think they're kind of forced into it, so it
has to make sense. But also Giannis was an incredibly
effective player in that role, and I think he's learned
ways to do it that aren't quite as taxing as
early career. Honest. So if you're thinking about like twenty twenty,
like he's just gonna run straight downhill every time, that
would not be sustainable. I think he's become a much
better post playmaker and feeling out the defense and then
making the read versus you know, running full speed at
the rim and then passing it the last second. I
don't think that would be sustainable. But I think he
has developed, and the mid range development has helped here
more of an in between game where he can really
feel out the floor and then just it becomes easier
for him to see who's the cutter, who's the open shooter,
or should I take this myself.
Speaker 1: Looking at it through the lens of like the entire
season perspective, Do you think that they have surrounded him
now with then enough supplementary shooters who can also kind
of play with pace, because that is the pathway to
like also optimizing point you honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think they have a lot
of spacing. The roster is set up that there's always
going to be the stretch big out there with him,
whether it's Turner or Bobby Portis, and they're always going
to have the one probably playmaker, the guards we talked about,
and then the mix of AJ Green, Gary Trent Junior,
a mere coffee who's on a camp deal but I
would guess is going to make the team. And Torrian Prince,
who was like kind of the forgotten led the NBA
in three point shooting for like three quarters of the
season and kind of fell off down the stretch, had
a bad playoffs, but still a very effective kind of
catch and shoot player on a ve minimum. So those
four guys, I think the big question mark, of course,
is Kyle Kuzma. How much does he play, how well
does he shoot the ball? I don't know if we're
going to see Gary Harris very much. He's got been
a guy who's been streaky and I think kind of
falling off entirely in the last two years in Orlando.
But maybe he can contribute there as well. But I
think I think playmaking is a little bit of an issue.
I think the actual three is a little bit of
an issue. But in terms of like shooting, I think
they've done a very good job of putting enough of
that to space the floor around gian Us.
Speaker 1: There will be like a if he plays like a
twenty something game stretch where it feels like a Gary
Harrison renaissance. He's good for one of those, like I
think every other year, so he might be due for
one after the season he had last year.
Speaker 2: If we could tap into whatever Bucks Wesley Matthews tapped
into for his tenure, I mean, that was one of
the great random role player but was so indispensable two
different tenures on the Bucks. So if Harris has any
of that, by all means, please like uncork it and
be a bench option. But they just have so many
like twos who kindamascueradus threes that I'm not sure if
the role is even gonna be there for him. But
Doc does love his vets, so we'll see.
Speaker 1: Do you think they have enough. When you're kind of
moving beyond Giannis and creation there, who is there? I
don't know what you wanted. Their second best ball handler,
their second best creator, their second most important offensive player,
and if it's Turner, then their third most important offensive player.
That's the when I look at their rotation, their depth chart,
this is where I start to run into it. Not
that I can't see the vision, but it's okay. I
don't really know who to identify here as that player.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like they took dual dart throws on
Kevin Porter Junior and Ryan Rollins and they're just like,
we think, at least one of these guys will be
a plus point guard kind of player, and let's see
which one. I would assume that Porter Junior gets the start.
He was very effective on the stretch. He shot the
three ball and the mid ranger very well. As a buck,
he dunked a lot, which Giannis was reacting in these
games like wait, I'm allowed to have a point guard.
He drives to the basket and dunks like he wasn't
really used to seeing that. And I do think again
that combat with Giannis really did work when they would
have actions together. Rollins more of a less flashy player. Obviously, again,
like KPJ, off court reasons to certainly not be a
fan of him, which I emphasize and agree with a
player who had a fifty point game against the Bucks
in the past, who's average nineteen per game five and five, like,
there is some level of production there that he tapped
kind of back into as a Buck. I think he
was like fifteen four and four in the regular season
for Milwaukee and had an up and down playoffs, but
was not totally ineffective, so there's more of a production
track record. Rollins is like the mystery box kind of
the underlying metrics are insane. How effective he was defensively.
He shot the three ball really well. He played that
year almost entirely with a separated shoulder that he got
surgery to fix this offseason, but that was most of
his season and still kind of performed and shot the
ball well. His first real game in the rotation he
had five steals against the Raptors and then hurt the
shoulder in that game and then missed some time and
then basically played through it. So I don't want to
get too optimistic about Ryan Rollins. But there's someone there's
something there for sure, at least like a low key,
off ball kind of two combo guard player, but maybe more.
And then Cole Anthony to me is just kind of steady,
probably more of a bench player. I don't think he
would start, but I think their idea is, let's see
if we can continue getting this level of play out
of Porter Junior, Let's see what Rollins is. Hopefully one
of them works, and if not, then probably shift some
more shots to Trent, who's been a nearly twenty point
game scorer in the past, Like not really a shot creator,
but can help you get some points on the board
at least, And then that's maybe where if all that
stuff isn't adding up to enough, I'd assume they'd go shopping.
But I'm fairly confident they'll get enough point guard play.
Those guys stepped up admirably at the end of the
year with Dame out and kind of combined to basically
mirror Dame's production. Of course, that's less valuable across two
spots and it is one, but they ended up getting
there in kind of tandem.
Speaker 1: You've mentioned Gary Trent Junior, I feel like him coming back.
You meant you mentioned the top of the podcast over
and who's part of our mid level on Gary Trent Junior.
Them getting him back how they did is just low key.
I tend to over romanticize that archetype of player, and
we've kind of seen now, oh, these guys play well,
but there's never that big contract waiting for them. But
to just go into the offseason, you only have his
non bird rights to come out with that contract and
we'll see what happens next summer. Like what was the
wink wing that was going on here? Yeah, stroke of
brilliance in the moment though by Milwaukee that's another off
season thing they did. How that deserves a shout out?
How what do you view as like whether it's a
full lineup or maybe like two or three guys that
you you want to make sure on the court during
those non ya Honest minutes to keep the offense humming.
I think Rollins and or like KPJ seemed like easy ones,
like I'm sure we'll see I would assume just my
guess would be like we'll see plenty of KPJ, like
Stacker from Be Honest, because he's probably their best combo
of self creator and also passer aside from you, I think, yeah,
I don't know, I have no answers.
Speaker 2: I think Cole Anthony's going to be important for that
because I think KPJ there's at least a shooting upside
that we really haven't seen from Anthony. And you know, granted,
he is played in like the Thunderdome of bad spacing,
so maybe being on the Bucks could maybe help him
a little bit, Like I think just a lot of
shooters have struggled there, including.
Speaker 1: He's gonna get lost in all that space. I hope
he doesn't.
Speaker 2: He's not gonna know what to do with it. And
I forgot his dad, Greg Anthony played for the Bucks.
He's got his old Bucks number, so that's a cool
like subplot as well. But this is random. I think
you'll appreciate this. I'm guessing you didn't, because there's no
reason for you too. Did you see the video of
Cole Anthony signing with the Bucks, no actually signing the deal.
So they they gave him a pen, a Bucks pen
that had his name like engraved on it or something,
and he reacted like he had never seen anything like
this before. And I just wonder, like what goes on
in Orlando because he signed like what like a fifty
million dollar four year deal and they didn't They just
gave him like a BIC. I don't know, but I
don't know. If we know, maybe he needs to spice
up the pen games what I learned.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well the Devout family's in charge of that, so yeah,
that does not surprise me.
Speaker 2: That was my takeaway too. But I think Anthony just
to come in and like I've comped him to, like
are the Bucks trying to find their own TJ McConnell
kind of player, like just come in, score for himself,
kind of just keep things moving. I don't think he's
as good as as TJ. I don't think anyone's as
good as you know, NBA playoffs TJ, who became like
one of the best players in the league for a
month plus there. But I think he'll be important. And
then Portis, of course is their standard, Like we need
someone to get shots up, Bobby Port is comfortable doing it.
He actually played a lot more with the Honest and
was more of an off ball player, but on this team,
pretty confident he'll continue to get his diet of like
mid range looks, especially when he's not playing with the
honest It'll be interesting to see if Simms is in
the rotation. Not for offense by any means, but they
love when he gave them defensively down the stretch, and
like they would just have these runs where he would
come out and they would not score at all, but
they wouldn't give up the lead in the yet nam
and the honest minutes because the other team wouldn't score either.
So maybe their approach will just be like, send Sims
out there and see if we can just play like
a two to zero game for five minutes. But I
think Kevin Porter, Junior Cole Anthony, Bobby Portis will be
big players to just like kind of keep offense moving
to some extent in the non be honest minutes.
Speaker 1: There was a lot made about Giannie's quote unquote defensive
slippage last year. I think part of that was something
took hold earlier in the season and people never moved
off it. Just my view of it. I also think
there probably was some defensive slippage there. When you're looking
at some of like the ball containment stuff, maybe where
do you land on that whole thing? Where do you
land on Gianni's defensive value right now. And I think
we should also just couch this by saying, I think
people get too caught up still after all these years
of Giannis is not supposed to be defending the other
team's best player. That has never been peak. Gianni's on
the defensive end, like that's never been his like primary job,
And it just amazes me how much it still gets
talked about as like a void.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's a little
bit of slippage in the sense of I think he's
begun doing the Lebron thing to a certain extent of
just like I no, thankfully, not that, thankfully, none of that,
not a big Actually he's back on he does TikTok
now and they call him he just like does every
filter and he's clearly not native to this world of
like being digital. But it's very funny stuff.
Speaker 1: Well he's like is he trying to just like be
part of the new generator? He did that. I don't
even know who the content person was, but I saw
the boat. Yeah, okay, I saw the How does that
collab even happen? Why is it on a boat?
Speaker 2: Like I just know, Well, the funny thing about that
was he So he was on a street he did
a live TikTok or whatever with his wife like us
two weeks before that, and he goes, I'm going to
be a streamer because I think it was because he
saw how much money the streamers were making and Giannis
loves money, and she's like, you shouldn't be a stream
He's like, I'm going to be a streamer, and he
goes with this kay snawders like the number one streamer
right now through like the streets of Greece, and so
many people came up in surrounded them, and the honest
were just like horrified, like what is this? Like this
doesn't happen to me and Greece like and the guy's
telling them all these stories about oh yeah, people run
up to me, someone pulled out my hair and be honest,
is just like Giannis left early. I don't think Giannics
is gonna be a stream runing. I think that I didad.
Speaker 1: He's had some good like I mean, we all know
the championship stuff like Bob video at that, but also
him and his wife, was there a bug or something
in their room? Yeah, posted that one too.
Speaker 2: That was hysterical a funny guy man. But the defensive side,
I think the Lebron but by what I meant by
the Lebron thing was coasting more, especially regular season. On
the defensive end. I think obviously the season ends with
the low light of Halliburton getting by him in the playoffs.
I just think that one was maybe a little more exhaustion,
but still not the best player in the world. I
do wonder if maybe some more of that will be
tapped into this year because these last two years they've
kind of had to buy necessity become an offense first
team because you know you're building around Damian Lillard. I
don't think that's really honest his comfort zone. I don't
think he likes winning like one thirty to one twenty games.
I think prefer winning defensively if possible, like margin aside.
I just think the way he came up with the
Bucks and when they won, that's really what they were.
So I do wonder, like, will we see more from
him on the defensive end. It's gonna be hard. Obviously
he's gonna have to carry more offensive load than ever,
but with Turner with more options, like maybe they can
lean more into defense. We'll see though I just think
it may look even like there's more slippage this year
because of his offensive load. But I would imagine we'll
see better going forward than we did in that they'll
clip against tyres in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a chance that I'm not saying
he'll be friskier, but that if it gets easier, just
because if you have a full season of kind of
the guards that are in front of you now, it
should make everything easier on him. And I would like
even turn Or, even though Turner wasn't there last year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they're like this new philosophy of like
the weak link defense in the NBA. I do think
that could lead to Bucks team defense that's a little better,
and then maybe that helps Giannis's job too, because obviously
Dame would fight and he had some nice defensive moments.
I think he had like more blocks than threes in
the playoffs last year, which is obviously sad with the injury,
but just a weird kind of fighting through injuries and
stuff for him. But they it's just clearly like every
team was going to target him, and I don't think
they really have many players who are as targetable on
that end on this year's team.
Speaker 1: Any other Yiannis related things you'd like to get off
your chest before we move on.
Speaker 2: I'm really excited to see how the mid range does
again this year, because, like quietly, it was just like
a top ten high volume mid range shooter last season
and really changed the way that teams defend him. And
I think that evolution plus the team. You know, there's
not the second star who's there, but I think it's
a team that probably fits better around Giannis in totality
in terms of like just the player's skill sets and everything.
I think he's probably gonna have a pretty good shot
to win MVP. I know some Bucks fans like that's
the point of this season. I don't really ascribe to that,
Like I think they should just try to be the
best team they can be. But I think he will
be set up to again score thirty, again, shoot sixty
percent from the field, and really be like the driving
force of the Bucks the way that Nikola Jokic has
for the Nuggets for the last several years.
Speaker 1: I will say him shooting some of his mid range
slashes from this past year, including I think he was
at like forty four percent on long tunes. Yeah, I
just want the free throw percentage in the seventies.
Speaker 2: That would be great. The sixties, high sixties would be great.
Seventies would be like suddenly he's scoring thirty six points
a game, I think, or it'd probably be a pretty
drastic jump just from that alone.
Speaker 1: So the Bucks have a handful of just returning wild
cards or projects, whatever bucket you want to classify them
under some whonever. You just go through them and get
your thoughts on whatever it is, what you'll be watching,
what you think their role might be next season with
this team.
Speaker 2: I love it. Let's do it.
Speaker 1: Let's begin with aj Green and well, let's start here quickly.
Do you think there's because this is the part of
the podcast that could be most dated even before it's released.
Do you think he gets an extension?
Speaker 2: I think he does. I am side eyeing the hold
up here because I wonder are is I remember I
mentioned they could be looking at trade possibilities and stuff like.
That's the only reason I could see it not getting done.
John Horse said, like the day he became eligible, it
was right during the Turner stuff. But like touch base
with his agent and everything, and talks are going good.
I can't imagine they're that far apart salvy wise, although
it was a summer where very few Bucks players ended
up getting paid, so I don't know if that factors
in or out, but I think it gets done unless
there's just like something larger than that looming. But I
can't imagine there's not interest on both sides the Bucks.
Obviously he's played so well, and I mean aj Green,
I think lock in a spot where maybe you're starting
this year and you're one of the team's most important players.
And again, a shooter on a honest team tends to
be a pretty good place to be for these kind
of players.
Speaker 1: So if he doesn't get an ext time, you think
that might mean there would be something afoot mid the
season in terms of a trade.
Speaker 2: Uh, that's that's the only thing I would be looking
at because he's going to be an unrestricted free agent.
So it's not like the Bucks can just say, like,
we'll figure it out, like you don't want to you
don't want to let him potentially walk. I mean, they've
been able to retain players like Gary Trent, Ryan Rollins
was unrestricted after they pulled his QO, like Bobby Portois. Again,
they kind of had their own deal done, so it's
not like they've they've historically been unable to keep unrestricted
free agents. But you know, when you look at the
shooting percentages of aj Green over the career, like, there's
going to be a ton of interest, So I can't
imagine they'd prefer to go there. So yeah, I don't.
I don't see what else would hold it up.
Speaker 1: So what are you looking at with him this year?
What type of role do you expect him to have,
like off rip for this team?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think right now, the way the roster is,
he should be either starting or like the first player
coming off of the bench. I think personally I would
have him and Trent starting together as the undersized two
and three. And just you know, you look around the East,
I don't think there's a ton of teams that will
punish you for being a little small at the three.
With the injuries to Manly Tatum, I think Boston's the
one where you're like, oh, that's really hard to do.
The Knicks, I guess, but I'm not as worried about it. Frankly,
We'll see how they end up playing. But just the
the lineup data with Jannis Trenton Green on the floor
last season was just pretty outrageous, And I just think
it's it's simple right, like shooters, and it's not just
a three point percentage. Both of those guys will put
it up fast and they're not going to hesitate, whereas
I think that's where Prince had fallen off, where he
takes them a little longer, like teams would stop him
from actually getting the shot up. But Yiannis and like
quick twitch shooters, it's just extremely difficult to guard. So
I think those two players and Giannis are going to
play a lot together, and I think the Bucks something's
wrong if they're not winning those minutes by a pretty
large portion. So I think Green is actually going to
be one of their most important players. I think he's
not talked about as such because like it's not gonna
be because he develops like some insane new part of
his game. It's just his limited skill set is a
very very important one with.
Speaker 1: Yaps, assuming we can buy into the jumper. What's the
next frontier for mister Ryan Rollins.
Speaker 2: Playmaking? I think he as he gets downhill, he's had
some nice dunks. He's a good defender, He's six to two,
but he has like a six to nine wings band,
so he can really guard a lot of different players.
He generates steals if the jumper is real, then it's
playmaking and obviously he's never gonna be Chris Paul, but
just being able to make quicker decisions when he's driving.
I think that's probably what he's worse at as a
point guard in the NBA right now, which is a
big thing to be worse at, which is why I
wonder you bring in Anthony and then maybe play rollins
with those guards a little bit more.
Speaker 1: Chris Livingston surprised. I'm kind of surprised that he's back.
Not gonna lie, but I guess after summer league makes sense.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's interesting. We kind of debated this on
our show. I'll say in August not doing win this drafts,
but it still feels odd that they did it. He's
had a good summer league for two years in a row.
His good summer league last year and twenty four resulted
in zero opportunities to play at any point throughout the season,
and with all the players we're talking about, I'm not
sure that's going to change. Frankly, he is a three
sized player. They do need more of those, But do
I really see him earning brun over Torrian Prince, Kyle Kuzma.
Maybe a mere coffee, Not really, but he needs to
hit the shot consistently. He guarded full court in Summer League,
which is interesting because I've always thought of him as
kind of a foot speed limited player. It seems like
he's working on that tenacious rebounder, can really slam it,
but needs to hit that shot more. That had kind
of fallen off last year. It looked good in Summer League.
We'll see, but yeah, it is a little The full
one year deal was a little surprising to me, but
he did play well in Summer League.
Speaker 1: Andre Jackson Junior. I want to like him, but I
don't know what he's going to bring offensively.
Speaker 2: He's just he's one of the most interesting Bucks players
I can remember, because the big question coming in was like, oh,
he's not going to be able to shoot, and that's
an issue, and his two years of shooting like has
knocked down shots at a very high level. I'm without
looking up for thirty eight thirty nine percent this last year.
But no one ever thinks they're going to go in
and no one guards him. His big issue is like
he is a god given athlete who got an invite
to the dunk contest, and he will not dunk the
ball unassisted in any circumstance. He will catch the ball
by the paint or in the paint and just immediately
pass it back out like he is like one of
the weirdest, most contradictory, hardest to define players. He's a
good defender because of the athleticism, He's not a great
like tools defender, if that makes sense. Like again, someone
like a Wesley Matthews late stage, I think was a
better defender even though he couldn't do anything that Ajax
can athletically, just like that knowing like how to get
the ball and everything like shut down Shaye Gilds Alexander
in the NBA Cup, which was like the seminal moment
for the Bucks this last year, and then they acquired
Kuzma and his role disappeared. The hardest player to define
they push back is guarantee date he may be packing
the bags for a mere coffee or for the Nasistetakumbo
TVD on that, but right now he's still on the
team and one of their better perimeter defenders. But I'm
not sure there's really gonna be a role for him this.
Speaker 1: Year, which is bizarre because I think him coming in
and was that twenty twenty three, if you had said, okay,
fast forward two years, he will shoot almost thirty nine
threes to those two seasons, you'd be like shit, like
he's gonna start.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he starts half the games both years and he
ends up not playing by the end. I just I
don't think they feel like they can trust him offensively
because he's just like the decision making isn't really there,
and you know, he just wants to pass everything, and
he'll also do like you know, driving with yanis two
on one and he's like trying to throw behind the
back pass and it goes out of bounds. Just like,
just don't do that. We don't need Magic Johnson. Just
give it to be honest and get out of the way,
and that's almost always the right call. And things like
that too, I think kind of probably drive Doc crazy.
Speaker 1: Where are we at on Tyler Smith?
Speaker 2: Yeah, a really bad summer league for him. I'm still
optimistic that he's going to become some sort of an
NBA bench player. I just think I think the shot
is real. He couldn't make any of them in Summer League.
But that summer league you look at last year the NBA,
he was okay in the G League at higher volume.
It was like, I want to say, thirty seven ish percent,
So he can tighten it up. He was working on
his mechanics. I got to talk to him a couple
of times in Oshkosh, where the Bucks G League team plays.
But he's actually I think he's more athletic than people think.
He has some nice rebounds and dunks I've seen. He
had a nice block that Doc challenged because they called
it a foul, but it wasn't, which was a cool
moment for him when he got, you know, kind of
end of gameplay with the Bucks. So I think they're
just kind of holding on and seeing how he develops.
But like a six' nine guy six' ten who's athletic and,
CAN shoot i just feel like THERE'S an nba. PLAYER
there i don't know if there's going to be a
role for him this, year YET but i. WOULD like
i like that they're holding Stock and i'm going to do.
Speaker 1: The same now You Have Portis, turner yannis so the
big man rotation's effectively sat but he Did Mention jericho.
Sims before is this a breaking case of emergency, type
thing or do you think that maybe they'll play Him in.
Portus together if they want to Really tether yannis and turn,
her together then do you try and by Time with
Portis and sims on.
Speaker 2: The, court yeah we really have been proponents of having
those two be a, unit together Just because portis can
do so, much offensively, but defensively he just can't play
the true big role like he's an okay actually. Switch
defender obviously you don't want Him On, luka donsich but
you know on bigger wings like. Average players he does
find there you ask him to drop and it goes,
really Bad like zone hasn't been, Very Good whereas sims
is A really i think strong defensive player at, the
five sometimes gets a little bullied on, the Glass but
portis is a, good REBOUNDER so i think there's some real.
SYNERGY there i just think there's probably we already talked
about some of the smalls playing up a. Little bit
then you can't really also play a ton. OF bigs
i think it's most likely to at least to start
the Year that sims is ready there for when one
of those three players, misses time which that's the one
thing that was under explored probably About losing lopez is
outside of the back, surgery year he plays eighty games every.
Single year that's really RARE for. NBA centers i think
they feel Good about sims coming In when turner misses,
a Game when gatus misses, some time and just giving
them some more, big Minutes especially turner if he plays sixty,
FIVE games i Would assume sims is getting like twenty
minutes per game in those. Other Seventeen.
Speaker 1: The kyle kluzma social media caption hype train has left.
Speaker 2: The station he's got, a newsletter he's got a. YouTube
series he's been crushing on the content. Front.
Speaker 1: Man yeah Him And Michael porter Junior both and that
is sarcasm tone from Me And Michael. Porter junior what
were your early impressions of the fit post trade and
like kind of having to untether That, from, okay well
look at what they gave up to.
Speaker 2: Get, him, YEAH yeah I mean i think they equally
wanted the future cap Flexibility And, KYLE kuzma i think
it was like those were neck and neck in them
and making. The move the cap piece clearly helped them
do some other things. This Summer the kuzma piece started. Out,
GREAT actually i think it has been forgotten and how
bad the, playoffs were but he came in to be
like the defender who scores a bit, for them and
he really. Did it like he had some ok. Offensive
games he, had actually Ironically against luca was like probably
as defensive top moment as, a buck we had some
really good possessions. GUARDING him I don't i think he
struggled to guards any players smaller, than that which was
an issue for them as. A whole but as a
wing defender he had some. Okay moments AND then i
thought in the playoffs they did a good job of
putting him in a role that, made sense which is
like you're gonna come in and like we're gonna give
you a, couple touches you're gonna be, a slasher you're
gonna be, a cutter and they need a six to
nine guy who does all, Those things like even if
the shot was like thirty five five percent thirty, four
percent he was like a good wing defender at the
three who could slash AND cut i think that. Would
work he couldn't make. A layup it's, just like, all,
right well then there's a lot of things now where
there's no. Things left he Couldn't guard siakam. That well
he clearly could Not guard haliburton, at all and there
was just nothing left for him to do in his
role vanished entirely by the end of. The series so
you'd hope he can be better. Than that i'm not
sure he could be any worse than he was in.
THE playoffs i still think it's hard to look at like,
asset wise, this team whether it's, this year this, trade deadline,
next summer he's going to be expiring then and not,
say like ultimately they're going to turn this money into
a player who fits better unless he comes out and,
you know thirty seven percent from three and doesn't miss layups,
or something which is. CERTAINLY possible i think they're going
to give him, an Opportunity but i'm not real high,
on IT and I think i had him ninth In
my bucks rotations rankings in terms, of like WHO do
i think are the best players in. THE team i
the way he played in whole Is. A buck i
just couldn't put.
Speaker 1: Him, ANYHOT yeah i probably would like to, see HIM
and i know it dipped like a little bit when
he Went from Washington to milwaukee for. Obvious reasons i'd
like to see him take fewer mid rangers and be
nice if he shot or if his corner threes. Went
in that could feel like it could be pretty useful
on this. Theme, massive yeah what's your level of, hope
though because there's value in them rebooting his value.
Speaker 2: If they want to move him in. A, trade, yeah
YEAH so i think they're gonna. TRY to i think
they'd be smartest to bring him off the, bench still
just because obviously when you try to reboot a, player's
value it can. Go poorly, you know it's not. Always
automatic upside, in THAT and i do think they should
probably try and limit his minutes with the honest just because,
you know the spacing impact. Is real they kind of
operate in similar spaces on. The floor the three the
jumbo Lineup With Kuzma janis lopez. Didn't work, Maybe again
turner's a lot. More mobile maybe it, could Work but
i'm not high. ON that I hope i could.
Speaker 1: Rather See Portois turner yiannis at this point then who's?
Speaker 2: The, street, yeah absolutely like and? WHY not i think
we probably will see that at. Some point doc loves.
Big lineups you Cannot.
Speaker 1: The east is. BIG man.
Speaker 2: I think, we're like we're done with. Small ball it's
like just functional big guys who can shoot. And.
Speaker 1: MOVE now i, will, say Though the Rockets unless, I'm
like i'm probably am like forgetting. Another team Like the
rockets have done the pivot to where, it's, like oh
you're not even worried about one of your bigs being.
A shooter you're just gonna play and then you're gonna
have wings around them that aren't necessarily shooters if you
look Like. A thompson, SO yeah i mean there's like stuff,
is changing and it's not just it's like bigs with
skill and size who. Could shoot but it's not even
Bigs because. Turner is it's the other THING that i
couldn't not to bring it Back, to Turner but pacers
fans that kind of remembered what he did in, the
finals and then they look at the numbers With that
haliburt and it's there are like five guys IN the
nba who actually fit the floor spacing rim. Protector model
he is one of them and has been the longest tenured,
ONE probably i mean like LONGER. Than kp lopez was
like a late career. Renaissance there so you see like
Something the rockets. Are doing i'm now wondering if It.
Becomes cleveland was that for a, little bit But now
mobiley can just shoot threes and he'll probably develop a
mid range game for all we know at. This Point
so i'm like kind of Looking, at, houston, is well
what's the next team that's gonna try to just be
really big and not care about the Floor spacing as,
a Result.
Speaker 2: The, houston offense this is totally out of. Left field
justly just, feel like is it gonna? Be good because we've, seen,
like oh JUST drop kd on teams and the offense
will because it hasn't always. Been good I'm just i'm
interested to SEE how i.
Speaker 1: Think if they're able to retain their offensive, rebounding element
especially during the Minutes that KDE's not on, the court
because like there's gonna be fewer misses available to GRAB
with kd on, the floor you. Would Think and, i'm,
also uh you probably don't, know THIS but i will
like Die For reed shepherd's stock IN. The NBA so
i think that he's going to have like a material
imprint on how their offense is. This year that was.
A tangent we didn't take.
Speaker 2: That, play yeah. It wasn't what, were, We oh kuzma
thirty three percent confident that he'll be like A helpful buck,
this year like a third of. THE time i could,
See it and then.
Speaker 1: That could be layp percentage in.
Speaker 2: Certain games so there in lies the, is sho.
Speaker 1: Didn't you shoot like seventy percent at the rim while
he Was in milwaukee. Though too we're sitting here making
fun of.
Speaker 2: His, layoffs yeah but then seven percent probably in. The,
Playoffs yeah it's like it's Like the, turner thing the
last thing sticks in your mind and a.
Speaker 1: Thirty one pert the room four thirteen in. THE playoffs
i did not know it was. That low, my god over.
Speaker 2: AND over i think he had a he had an.
Over game, it's like ohver a lot of shots and
they were almost all at. The rim it's. Really Bad
the turner thing to like your finals thing that you
mentioned a couple. Of times If the bucks get to
the finals and then, he's bad the best move they
could have. Ever made they have not won a playoff
series since twenty, twenty two so by, All Means miles
turner have three good playoff series and then one. Bad
one that that that would work for us at.
Speaker 1: This, point well having their two best players available for
an entire playoff series would be like quite.
Speaker 2: The, accomplishment also that does not Happen since bulls twenty,
twenty two so that would.
Speaker 1: Be great that, Was though was That the yanna's? Back,
year no that was and that was.
Speaker 2: The Next year jis got hurt Against.
Speaker 1: The, heat yeah they've entered they're like REMEMBER the, okc
era they made the finals and like every year, after
that someone was, just critical was injured in. The playoffs
they've entered that phase of, their development except the personnel's
now Shifting around giannis.
Speaker 2: Of course, BUT yeah i think they're, just like let's
get a lot of young guys who play a lot,
and hopefully, you know they're All hopefully yannas, is available
because if, he's not, nothing matters and then hopefully all
these guys are young and they can make it through the,
season unscathed which just they kept having problems with their
key players.
Speaker 1: Doing THAT so i was listening to an episode Of
the eurostep podcast you might have heard, of it and
one of the co hosts said that he believes this
team has a much higher defensive ceiling than. OFFENSIVE ceiling
i found, that interesting not because, it's outlandish BUT because
i actually hadn't given it, much thought and so that
prompted me to give. It THOUGHT and I think. I
agree and so what goes into that? Specific you it.
Was you for anyone who's listening and didn't catch, that
bit what goes into that line of thinking?
Speaker 2: For, YOU yeah, i, think, well first they don't have
a second guy who raises your water, level offensively like.
BY default i think they're gonna be an okay offense
because it's spacing plusy. Honest works, of Course the nney
honest minutes will, be difficult but, YOU know i THINK
they'll i think they'll, manage ENOUGH but i think that
will drag down their overall offense to, You know i'd
say middle of the pack league wide IS what i. Would,
EXPECT defensively i think their ceiling is a top five
defense uh, in there JUST because i think they have
a lot of solid at. WORST defenders i think someone
Like A ryan rollins is, you know maybe league wide
underrated had a big impact. On them as a, PERIMETER
defender I thought trent. WAS solid i thought their point guards,
were GOOD like kpj was a pretty, good defender kind
of off and on would have like these dramatic steals
and dunks and then would get totally long the. Next
POSSESSION but i think the net result was OKAY and
i but really it's about the. FRONT court i Think
The yannis turner. FRONT court i am not as EXCITED
as i was about The yannest, dame offense but like
eighty percent as excited About The turner yanni's DEFENSE as
i was, for that JUST because i Remember when lopez
was A defensive player Of the year caliber player and
you Miss A drew Holliday Or, eric bledsoe, of course
but those guys anchored. That defense really it was, the
paint and, you know trying to chase guys into it.
Was important they're going to need to be able to.
Navigate screens we'll see how their players do with that overall.
This YEAR green i think is a good, defender too by,
the way but those guys can really eat up the
paint and they've never had two mobile shot, blockers BEFORE
and i just can't wait to see what it. Looks
LIKE and i think it's just going to be extremely
hard to score around. The basket and as, we know
you know the games and teams don't shoot, lights out
it's generally very difficult to win if you can't score
around the basket. At all that's like the number one
defensive thing where if you can protect, the rim you'll
be at, least solid and if, you can't it's very
hard to.
Speaker 1: Be good who is like their best you want to
call them wing stopper or primary wing checker on? This team?
Speaker 3: IS it.
Speaker 2: I wonder if they'll be honest to it more depending
on the player they'd like to have him off ball
and as, The, roamer uh it'd Probably be and people are,
Gonna laugh I'd say Rollins. ARE green I think green
actually was a tremendous defender for most of. Last season
had like a couple of tough weeks, in there but
he's just sturdy and solid and he moves his. Feet
well the big thing will be does he get called?
FOR fouls i think he got in his head a
little bit because he's a young player and you just
don't get that whistle benefit of the doubt against good.
Offensive players then he kind of started reaching and being
too aggressive and then really would get in a foul,
of trouble but then clear it up down, THE stretch
i think in a. Nice Way, BUT rollins i think
one of the few good moments of the playoff Run.
Against indiana he really had stymied their fast break offense
when they played him because he would Pick up haliburt in,
full court, kind of, you know reversing What the pacers did,
to teams and it had a big impact on what
they were able to do Offensively. Against Milwaukee so I'd
say rollins is. Their best AND then I think green is.
Up there and then it's like a lot of guys
who are, just okay.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to enter the cookie cutter portion of?
The podcast let's. Cut cookies what is your primary concern
for this team entering This is we've talked about a couple,
of them but what is your what's your biggest?
Speaker 3: Single, ONE yeah i just think it's the fact that
there's not a clear three that, makes SENSE and i
think that could, Be Okay but i'm a little worried
About how doc handles that problem VIS.
Speaker 2: A vi do you Just play Trent and green at
the two three and figure it, out out WHICH is
i think the, optimal answer or do, you, Say Well
kyle Kuzma And torrian prince are, our three so they're
gonna play a combined forty minutes, per NIGHT which i
think would really lower the ceiling and floor of what
the team. Could DO so i think it's that and
that if they, added someone even if it wasn't an,
Amazing player but just like if You turn KUZMA Into rj, barrett,
somehow somehow then the team makes more sense and you lose,
That DOWNSIDE and i JUST think i would believe in
them more as a week to, week product whereas RIGHT
now i think that's a problem that they can solve with.
This Roster but i'm just not Sure how doc's gonna.
Speaker 1: Approach it what's an underrated strength or something about this
team that you don't think is receiving.
Speaker 2: ENOUGH attention i think the point guard room is. ACTUALLY
good i don't think. IT'S great i think there's just
so many really good point guards in. The LEAGUE but
i see it discussed as though they just HAVE no
nba players in, that room and even if you ACKNOWLEDGE
that kpj is, a risk which certainly is a huge
to not be, GOOD again I think rollins will be
at least like a MODERATELY good, nba PLAYER and I
Think cole anthony is like a very solid backup, Point
GUARD so i don't see that as the big hole.
Many do it's clearly they Don't Have damian Lillard Or drew,
holliday ANYMORE but i think some of those players are
better than, people THINK and i think they have enough
production there to get through. Games with janis also kind
of being a point guard in, some sense.
Speaker 1: So stuff changes all, the time but at, full strength
what do you think the top ten rotation looks like for?
This team when you're trying to isolate the start feels
like most of the starters are set, In stone, but
like who do you think it up being the top
ten most?
Speaker 2: Used, players Yeah so i'll say my preferred would BE
and i think this is Quasi Realistic, Porter Junior, Trent Green,
giannis turner and then the back line Is Basically Cole
anthony rollins as the combo guard will say two and
then probably then prints kuzma yanis With like simms is
the in case of, emergency GUY and i Guess A
mere coffee. There too if he's there Along With.
Speaker 1: GARY harris i still can't Believe A mere coffee only
got a. Camp deal, it's, like.
Speaker 2: YEAH well I think i think they're gonna find a spot,
for him but uh not yet they.
Speaker 1: Have not what do You think doc is gonna wind
up favoring the smaller looks or let's just say the
looks that maybe don't have a, true wing or do
you think he'll veer in the other direction because you
said he likes, big lineup so where it's maybe we
see the, three bigs Or it's kuzma's just playing a
ton of like a shit ton of Three.
Speaker 2: HIGH probably i. Don't know it's really interesting last year
he during the regular season he wanted. The bigs during
the playoffs he did get, one over and he eventually
ended up just going with like the one young Point
Guard Green trent Jannis and lopez or Even Smaller portis
janis ended up being their their stretching, front court and
those two actually played really well together down the stretch.
Last year And all doc, loves media so he's done
like five things he keeps talking about like we need to,
be fast we need to, be stretchy like, you know
we saw this is how we played with the honest at,
point guard and that is how he got in. The
playoffs eventually took him, too long but he GOT so
i want to believe that he will go with. SMALLER
groups i think they have to to. Be good i'm
a little worried it'll be the. Bigger groups but you
do look At like Game. Five indiana, You know Kuzma
and prince barely played and they Basically Ran trenton green into.
The ground so that is where. They got they have
given that. Lip service they have built a roster that
makes sense to.
Speaker 3: Do that.
Speaker 2: We'll see i'm not. Totally sold we call It doc
holm syndrome of like buying Into what doc says versus
how he.
Speaker 1: ACTUALLY coaches i missed The The bleacher report. Quote graphic
we need to get to the season so we Get
more doc. QUOTE graphics i gotta call my.
Speaker 2: Throat guy nobody should ask for. THIS job i think
was a.
Speaker 1: GOOD one i thought it WAS a i was a.
GOOD one i thought it was a was That the.
Luca trade was That The. LUCA traders i.
Speaker 2: Think that Was the. Luca trade he had another one
where just like we were halfway To can kun when
they lost right Before The. All, stars yeah that was
one of. My favorites that was a.
Speaker 1: Good, one look people have a lot of valid Criticisms.
ABOUT doc i actually wonder if this is the type
of roster because the thing that's tattooed into. My memory
do you Remember that clippers team where Was Either danilo
Gallinari Or tobias harris was their. Best player he seems
more wired for that type. Of TEAM and I know
yannis as your tent pole guy is so much different
than a team that has no. Traditional star but, after
that it feels, Like, more oh this Could be doc's vibe,
this Year so i'll make sure. With that and if,
nothing else like he's just gonna, say shit so other.
Coaches wouldn't so you have to.
Speaker 2: APPRECIATE that i learned to divorce and just Enjoy the
Doc as order experience because. It's great he is one
of our nation's. Great orders he Goes On bill simmons
and just sticks up For the bucks and. It's awesome
but then you watch him coach Just Like jesus christ,
but yeah like they when they didn't have any players
The first, indiana series he had gallop out there as
like a five playing zone and it worked for a couple,
of games, and like remember They pushed indiana to six
With no Johannest and dame getting hurt as Well and
chris on half, a leg, and yeah those are the
moments he tends to. Do well so we'll see how.
It goes but it is kind of h honest and cobble.
THINGS together, I mean i'll say it's, it's yeah it's
like a good, front court and then cobble the. Rest
together so that's kind of, His challenges like how do
we figure out the, right, one, two THREE because i
think the four or five is relatively firm at.
Speaker 1: This point this question is to a large extent. Matchup
dependent but what do you think winds up being their
go to? Closing unit.
Speaker 2: GOOD question i think they'll probably be able to stay
bigger than they were in. YEARS past i would usually
say a small, ball GROUP but i think they probably will. Be,
TURNERY honest i think he's just too good and flexible
enough that he probably won't get played off the floor,
very often or at Least the bucks will try and
not let. That happen i'm gonna say. THOSE two I
think Green. AND trent i just think what they've proven
a shooters and the chemistry with the honest is just.
TOO strong i looked. It Up gary trent, really bad
like first, eight games didn't shoot under forty percent in a.
Single Month after october it was just. Remarkably Consistent and
green only dipped like. Thirty SEVEN so i think those
two will be, out there AND then i think it'll
Be Probably Kevin. PORTER junior i would like To see
rollins for, the DEFENSE but i would. WE'LL see i
think it'll be one of, those TWO but i think
the other. FOUR players i feel pretty confident in which
four will be.
Speaker 1: Out there what's, a weirdo quirky or off the beaten
path lineup you'd like to see doc try out? THIS year.
Speaker 2: I think there almost. All are that's the difficulty of
it is like the team is kind of so strange
that there's there's. No choice we got a small Sample
Of sims yannis lineups and they the spacing is. So
bad but maybe like those two and then Like a
rollins and two shooters and, just see like does it.
Work enough they were. PRETTY good, i mean most Guys
with giannis had a pretty good net rating, last year
But Some sims giannis just, to, see like let's just
have some, two big switchable guys, out there and, You
know rex stuff Defensively and sims tries really hard and,
runs around really loves to. Set screens one of my
favorite things about. A player he will sprint across the
floor just had a screen For like Tory. And prince
takes a special kind of guy to. Do That so, I'll,
SAY sims i WANT to i want to Talk about sims.
Speaker 1: A LITTLE so i want to see a three, big
UNIT but i want it to be. AND put, i
Mean Have aj Green And Gary trent junior, out there
it's just like the. Back court then Give Me turner
giannis and get let's See Some tyler smith. Minutes, THERE
oh i would just like to see what that lineup.
Looks like and, you're right BECAUSE when i was trying
to come up with a quirky lineup for, THIS team
i try to pick one, that's, Like oh doc won't
like the coach probably won't. Try this and it's JUST
when i was putting together combinations, like well NO like
i could see that making. THE court i could see
that one making.
Speaker 2: The, court SERIOUSLY like i was expecting you, to Say
Like Yannis turner portis and those, two SHOOTERS like i
could see him running that, out there and like.
Speaker 1: Fuck it Let's Go tyler smith and then we'll Throw
a torrian prince at. THE one i don't need to see,
kuz there so let's see what.
Speaker 2: That looks you lost me with, Prince too, but yeah
you were cooking for a.
Speaker 1: Second there you could get you could get to some
really funky but it's kind of lame To say yannis
is the big but you get some really Nifty. Like
yannis plus like all these guard type lineups would be
a lot of.
Speaker 2: Fun, TOO yeah i could see, them experimenting especially if
someone was out or something like the other team was,
really small but Like A Rollin's, Trent Green, prince yannis
and it's just like everyone's a forty percent catch and
shoot guy And then yannis just wrecking stuff in. The.
MIDDLE uh i wouldn't be shocked if we see a
little bit. Of THAT but i think there's gonna be
a Lot Of yannis Portis And. JANNEST turner i think
they like to be big but, also shooting but the
small stuff is.
Speaker 1: Fun too before we get, into predictions is there anything
else we haven't talked about with this team that you
think needs to. BE discussed.
Speaker 2: I think we've hit most all.
Speaker 1: Of it.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to think if there's. LIKE any i think
we've done a pretty, good, job honestly of going. ALL
over i do think there's always the chance they just
like they're better than, we THINK but i think we'll
cover that. In predictions, But overall i'm excited about their.
FRONT court i guess there's their front court. IN general
i think it's probably gotten underrated how good that, unit
IS and i, get it like the lack of a
three in the point guard room kind of stand out
on the, Other END but i do think there's not,
many teams, if any who have a better like front
court Group, Than Jannis, Miles Turner, bobby porters And then
simms is like the depth.
Speaker 1: GUY there i guess the one thing we could have,
talked about especially because you mentioned it earlier in, the
podcast is them having the pick the swap. To trade
do you actually think they would move, this, year BECAUSE
as i mentioned at, the top like, MY head i
viewed it as they're getting through, this year so they
can dangle up, to three like outright first round picks.
Speaker 2: Next, YEAR yeah i think, they WOULD like i think
they'd be okay, doing that but they're they're. There again
they're just not a team that like plans out, stuff,
like oh we'll do something in. A year if there's
something available now that, THEY like i don't think they'll
just throw it for. LIKE anything i don't think they're
gonna go give a pick and a swap to get
Like A zach lavigne kind. Of player they couldn't anyway
with the, salaries NOW but i think if the, right
opportunity the one that they felt, was right they would
they would trade. IT now i DON'T think i had
a similar plan for them to have, three total and
then they Traded For damian lillard like a few months
before they could. Do THAT so i don't think they're
gonna find A. DAM september.
Speaker 1: I would probably bet against them trading the first round pick.
Or swap they aren't in an interesting POSITION because i
think we talked about this before, the podcast is like
basically they're in higher roster Except For kyle kuzma And
aj Green and giannis can't, be traded so once the trade,
Eligibility lifts i'm not su you're doing something now That
involves Kuzma and GREEN and i, just Again given, KUZMA'S
value i don't know what the deal is that would
excite Me If, i'm milwaukee or that would excite, me
Frankly if i'm another team with him. In it so
you could Then, be Okay it's december fifteenth Or in january,
like it are we good enough? To justify so there
won't be that. Immediate pressure not that teams ever, feel
IT but i think, last, year look we saw some
teams Act the Lakers, getting Smith the warriors going out And.
Getting shrewter we saw a couple of, things happen like.
Earlier on they're kind of in they can, play though
like we really can't do anything, right now card like
we need to wait until all these trade.
Speaker 4: Restrictions, lift yeah but then even when they, lift though
like unless You're trading Horters, or turner they just signed
a bunch of guys to minimums mostly so they don't
they don't have.
Speaker 2: THAT much i guess The Part porter junior is like
five million rollins is like, four million but they're not
gonna have a bunch of like super tradable salaries, come
up and so it. Still matters it still obviously opens
up a lot more flexibility for like lumping, salaries together
but it is it's hard for me to even like
reframe of they could bring in so many more PLAYERS
than i, would think not, value wise but salary wise
now that they're out of all, the aprons because the
trade windows just feel so so loose now versus where
they had to play the last. Two years so.
Speaker 1: As we're looking ahead to, next season as the roster,
currently stands and we're recording this in the dead smack
in the Middle, of august how many games do you
Have these bucks winning and where do you see them
landing Inside the east for the.
Speaker 2: REGULAR season i think they're going to be a top.
FOUR team i think they'll win probably around when they did.
Last year they won forty eight games, last YEAR which
i think kind of went under reported just with like
everything going on with their team and the injuries and
always losing To. The PACERS but i think they're going
to kind of be. There AGAIN so I think Cleveland
and knicks will definitely be better in the regular season
and probably in the playoffs two pending some sort of a.
Roster move but there's so much talent on, THOSE teams
i think they're gonna be in. The mix Then, With, Orlando,
ATLANTA detroit i think that's kind of the NEXT tier.
I have i Think the bucks will be probably like
the second or third best of that, group overall even
though they clearly don't have the, you know, the best
second best guy versus any of. THOSE teams i think
their advantage with the first best guy and their level
of depth overall will get. Them there and they're just
suited to play modern basketball in a way they really
haven't been quite. A.
Speaker 1: While now THE more, i think THE more I think
I like Orlando and atlanta better, than them but Nothing, after,
cleveland frankly but we have to Put the knicks in there.
After That the east does fit like because If the sixers,
are healthy like, you, could Yeah the sixers got the.
THREE seed i don't think it's going. To Happen joelle
beid's basically been eliminated from awards ballots based on the
number back to backs that they have, this year where they.
Had sixteen so it's so wide open, after THAT and
i think that you, could say if you had to pick,
A number I think i would would, probably SAY like
i would guarantee that three teams will, be better which
feels like Then the bucks could land four. Or five
six feels like the range when you look At, the Pistons,
the hawks what happens with. THE sixers i don't think
there's a team like Maybe the raptors could come out of.
Left field but In, the east it doesn't feel like
there's a healthy amount of, wild Cards like philly is
the wild card For.
Speaker 2: THE east, i mean you could Even say, milwaukee IS
and i. WOULDN'T like i don't think, it's DISRESPECTFUL like
i think there's like if, you're, honest missus like, you
know a, long period they're going to be hard pressed
to go five hundred than. THOSE games i. DON'T know
i know some people are really high in. THE heat
i personally can't, get THERE and i like the norm,
pol THING but i can't get there with them being
actually good and most of the BAD teams i think
kind of want to. BE bad i. Don't Know does
charlotte do anything.
Speaker 1: For you depending on. THE day, i mean like they
have they all of a sudden got very. GUARD heavy
I like Musa, dia batte but don't like their center.
Situation Overall but i'm excited.
Speaker 2: To, see yeah they need them to Be but.
Speaker 1: LaMelo And brandon miller plus, Actual, Shooting yeah i'm interested.
To see but YOU could i talked Myself into charlotte,
last year like there's a LOT of nba bodies and
intriguing players on, the ROSTER but i don't think they
call ace into, YOU know i don't, HAVE like I
don't they're not on the same Level as Brooklyn, and
WASHINGTON where i think they're gonna be just. Regiously bad
but they're More, like chicago except there they are playing
LIKE a i think they're playing a better end game
than whatever The hell chicago continues.
Speaker 2: To, DO yeah, i yeah that don't don't really know
what's going, on there, BUT yeah i think the Interesting
conversation i've seen, is like who's gonna Be, Better indiana Boston.
Or milwaukee i've seen that put out there AND THAT
i i don't mean to be disrespectful to, those TEAMS
but i just can't get there with their front. Court
situations and Then obviously indiana to, you Know no Halibert
and notatum, of course but those injuries plus some of
the guys they're rolling out at the four. OR FIVE
i i Just think milwaukee has a, higher floor, you
know pending something dramatic with, be honest than those teams.
Speaker 1: Like that i'm not going to, predict IT but i
think you could talk me into a scenario in Which
the pacers are better Than the bucks when you look
at all the pieces in place and how driven they
will still be to. WIN games I think boston is
very clearly telegraphed that at some point this season that
is not going to be like even on their top
five list. Of priorities so.
Speaker 2: They Don't the bucks don't see Them, until February and,
i'm like one of the chances that one or Both
of White and brown are not playing in games, By them,
We'll see we'll.
Speaker 1: See against those like extended absences where it sounds like
a made up injury to a made up like fictitious. Body,
part yeah those are definitely coming down. The pipeline is there,
a team whether it's a contender or just a team
In the east that you are particularly interested in as,
a matchup Like haw milwaukee matches Up with whether it's
from a point, Of oh, i'm CONCERNED or i Think
the bucks actually match up with this team better than other.
PEOPLE think.
Speaker 2: I think they. MATCH uh i think the top two
they match up with. BETTER now, i think both In
targeting dame and in Kind of lopez's lack, of athleticism
they had some really built in difficult Things with Cleveland And,
New York and i'm NOT saying i think those are
like great matchups For the, bucks NOW but i think
they'll actually be more live, and hey they can have
a worst record against those teams this year than they did,
last YEAR but I think i think they'll be more
live in those matchups than. THEY were I think giannis
missed one or two Against the cavs like it wasn't
there was some things that went, into it but they
were kind of dead on arrival against. Those teams for the.
MOST part i THINK they'll i think they'll be a
little better Against THOSE but i think everyone's excited to
see how their team matches up Against, the HAWKS and i.
Am too that's a fun team that's going to be
a challenging one, to play and that they've Given. The
buck they've Given the bucks some problems with like some of,
the Athleticisms so i'm really excited to see those. Matchups,
too ty this was great.
Speaker 1: As always thank you for giving me so much of.
Your time thank you for. Coming back are you able
just to tell, our listeners our viewers where they can
find you and all the fantastic that you?
Speaker 2: Put out absolutely wherever you get this great pod which you, should, subscribe,
rate review, five stars share, notification bill all. That stuff
you can Find the eurostep there those places, as well
and as you, said earlier Very graciously Dan at Tiwindish,
On Twitter, Blue. SKY instagram i think those are pretty
much the. Main ONES but i, Where, else no none of,
those those none of. Those yet yeah we'll, see you,
but no not. Right now so just those Family those.
Speaker 1: The links to his social media handle And the eurostep
podcast will be in the YouTube. PODCAST description i would
just like to echo once Again the eurostep does a,
fantastic job one of my favorite podcasts. Out, There ty
thank you so much. As always as you know, By
now i'll be pestering you again in, the future and until,
NEXT time i leave everybody with a shout out to
the One the Only Mister, Frank, nila keena