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<v Speaker 1>I get to go to the KWA Commas Barrel hotline

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome.

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<v Speaker 2>Up on to the show. Peter King.

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<v Speaker 1>Peter, longtime NFL journalist, multiple awards and obviously the pride

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<v Speaker 1>as Grant Smith made me put down of Ohio University's E. W.

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<v Speaker 2>Script School of Journalism. Peter, how you doing this evening.

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<v Speaker 3>Benjamin, I'm great. Thanks for talking to a forgotten old man.

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<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it, well, not forgotten by me personally. I

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<v Speaker 1>remember the first time that I met you was it

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<v Speaker 1>was Ram's training camp. I believe it was twenty ten,

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<v Speaker 1>and I was a lowly nobody and still not that

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<v Speaker 1>I'm anybody now, but.

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<v Speaker 2>A lowly nobody.

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<v Speaker 1>You took time out to answer every question I asked

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<v Speaker 1>you humbly and graciously. It's stuck with me. It has

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<v Speaker 1>stuck with me over the last fifteen years. And as

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<v Speaker 1>I was sitting there thinking about the end of this season,

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<v Speaker 1>the state of football, the state of sports journalism, I thought,

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<v Speaker 1>what better person to talk to than the guy who

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<v Speaker 1>pioneered a lot of it in Peter King.

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<v Speaker 2>So I appreciate you taking some time tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>Sure I'd start with the way that football has has

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<v Speaker 1>evolved over the years, and it is such an absolute

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<v Speaker 1>money machine now as far as it goes, But we're

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<v Speaker 1>we're on to seventeen game seasons and I think we

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<v Speaker 1>all see an eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Game season down down the line.

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<v Speaker 1>The playoffs have expanded now we've got multiple wildcards, seven teams,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, as far as that goes. Over the years,

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<v Speaker 1>as you've watched the game of professional football evolve, what

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<v Speaker 1>has stuck with you as being, hey, that was a

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<v Speaker 1>great advancement, and what has stuck with you is as

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<v Speaker 1>maybe then an ill conceived choice by the game.

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<v Speaker 3>What a good question, Benjamin, Thank you, And I'll tell

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<v Speaker 3>you there's two things that occurred to me when you

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<v Speaker 3>start talking about that. One is that as you talk

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<v Speaker 3>about increasing the number of games in a season, we

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<v Speaker 3>just watched the end of the season where the San

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<v Speaker 3>Francisco forty nine ers went from prime Super Bowl content

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<v Speaker 3>under to having almost every one of their prime offensive

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<v Speaker 3>weapons with the exception of the quarterback, go down with

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<v Speaker 3>an injury for much, if not all, of the season.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, if you look at the guys who

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<v Speaker 3>were playing for them at the end of the year,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, when Ayuk is gone, when McCaffrey is gone.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, when Kittle is banged up, it just you

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<v Speaker 3>look at it and you just say, this is something

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<v Speaker 3>that you know. You're going to kill the Golden Goose

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<v Speaker 3>if you try to keep doing this. And it's not

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<v Speaker 3>only them. If you look at the Green Bay Packers

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<v Speaker 3>on Sunday, the green Bay Packers look like Alan Alda

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<v Speaker 3>in mash for crying out loud. It was, it was absurd.

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<v Speaker 3>They didn't have anybody left. And yet the NFL wants

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<v Speaker 3>to say, okay, seventeen games, no problem, We're going to

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<v Speaker 3>go eighteen. And you've got the new executive director of

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<v Speaker 3>the NFLPA who comes out and tells Mike Jones of

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<v Speaker 3>the athletic Hey, I want to see more football. Everybody

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<v Speaker 3>wants to see more football. And I'm saying to myself,

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<v Speaker 3>what is wrong with this picture? So that really bothers me.

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<v Speaker 3>The way the NFL talks about health and safety all

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<v Speaker 3>the time and then they say, oh, well, we'll just

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<v Speaker 3>add another game. That bothers me. But I think the

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<v Speaker 3>one other thing that's going on in the game right

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<v Speaker 3>now is that, at least to me. I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>am not one of those guys. Look, I covered the

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<v Speaker 3>NFL for forty years. The first year I ever covered

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<v Speaker 3>the NFL was nineteen eighty four and I worked in Cincinnati.

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<v Speaker 3>I was covering the Bengals and Sam White's the rookie coach.

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<v Speaker 3>My second on the job. He called me into the

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<v Speaker 3>office and he says, you want to know who we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to draft? And I said, yeah, I'd love to know.

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<v Speaker 3>And I thought he was kidding. He wasn't kidding. He

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<v Speaker 3>told me who they were going to draft, and he

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<v Speaker 3>told me almost every guy in like the first four

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<v Speaker 3>or five rounds. And I wrote about it the next

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<v Speaker 3>day and I looked like Noster Damis. But in those

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<v Speaker 3>days you could get away with things like that. There

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<v Speaker 3>was no Internet, there was no anything. And yet to me,

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<v Speaker 3>I think the game is absolutely fantastic. I can't wait

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<v Speaker 3>for these four games this weekend. Do I think that

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<v Speaker 3>Kansas City is going to get much of a game

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<v Speaker 3>from Houston? I don't, But you know what, who knows

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<v Speaker 3>the edge rushers in Kansas City could take advantage of

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<v Speaker 3>the weakness of the Chiefs, which is their edge protection,

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<v Speaker 3>you know. And every game I think has a chance

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<v Speaker 3>to be a really good game, the best of which

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<v Speaker 3>is the last one. Look I went into last weekend,

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<v Speaker 3>I was positive the Broncos had a good chance to

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<v Speaker 3>give Buffalo a game, and they didn't. But that doesn't

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<v Speaker 3>mean that I don't like the Broncos. I like the

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<v Speaker 3>Broncos a lot, so I am not one of these

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<v Speaker 3>a game with so much better in the old days.

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<v Speaker 3>I love this modern game. I love everything about the game,

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<v Speaker 3>but I don't love the powers that be trying to

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<v Speaker 3>make it an eighteen game season. It's just you can't

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<v Speaker 3>ask this much of the human body.

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<v Speaker 2>I wholeheartedly agree.

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<v Speaker 1>And once again we're talking with the great Peter King,

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<v Speaker 1>whose Football Morning in America was one of my most

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<v Speaker 1>absolute must reads at all time. I believe, if I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not mistaken, Yeah you were. You were in Cincinnati, mentioned

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<v Speaker 1>that that was where you started and covering the Bengals.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe your first game against the Broncos, was it not?

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<v Speaker 3>The first game that I ever covered in the NFL

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<v Speaker 3>was Cincinnati at Denver. That was the That was the

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<v Speaker 3>first game of the of the new era of the

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<v Speaker 3>of the Bengals. So yeah, I remember it very well.

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<v Speaker 3>And they had a first draft pick that year, Ricky Hunley,

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<v Speaker 3>who they could never sign, who ended up going to Denver.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know what's funny, when I retired, I was

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<v Speaker 3>looking back at some old stories and right before the draft,

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<v Speaker 3>I said, well, it's going to come down for the Bengals.

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<v Speaker 3>The first pick, seventh overall is going to come down

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<v Speaker 3>to two linebackers, one Ricky Hunley two Ron Rivera. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>how much do you think the Bengals regret that pick now?

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<v Speaker 3>Because obviously Ron Rivera was a centerpiece on a Super

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<v Speaker 3>Bowl team in Chicago. But you know, look, that was

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<v Speaker 3>that was a really, really fun time to cover Pro

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<v Speaker 3>Football Day.

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<v Speaker 1>I can't imagine you were You're mentioning the anecdote about

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<v Speaker 1>why you're sitting you down and telling you who they

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<v Speaker 1>were going to draft, and I can't imagine anybody doing

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<v Speaker 1>that now. I mean, we have to we have to

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<v Speaker 1>beg borrow and steel just to get the bread crumbs.

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<v Speaker 1>Over the years, I've been fortunate enough, you know, to

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<v Speaker 1>be able to get a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Here or there.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's it's it's pulling tea. Those relationships don't exist anymore.

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<v Speaker 1>And in the kind of cutthroat world that it is now,

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<v Speaker 1>it's sports shertalism has changed. I mean, so much of

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<v Speaker 1>sports journalism now is aggregation. There's there's very few trustworthy

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<v Speaker 1>on the ground reporters doing what you did back then.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just a major aggregation thing.

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<v Speaker 3>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>It irritates me because a lot of false stuff gets

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<v Speaker 1>put out there, run through the mill, and then everybody

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<v Speaker 1>spreads it.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know how it is. It takes one match

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<v Speaker 2>to burn ten thousand trees.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I would just say that to me. And again,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't say this because I retired, but I believe

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<v Speaker 3>that I'm probably going to be the last person to

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<v Speaker 3>ever do the job the way I did the job,

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<v Speaker 3>which is and it's because of finance. Is quite honestly,

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's, you know, because I was able to

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<v Speaker 3>go to a game for the last i'd say thirty

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<v Speaker 3>five years that I covered the NFL. I was able

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<v Speaker 3>to go to almost any game I wanted to any

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<v Speaker 3>week and report on it and write about it. And

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<v Speaker 3>now that just simply does not happen. I was able

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<v Speaker 3>to spend a month every summer going to NFL training camps,

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<v Speaker 3>which certainly is not going to happen anymore. I'm just

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<v Speaker 3>taking an absolute wild guess that's probably a twenty thousand

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<v Speaker 3>dollars perk now if you want to go go see

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<v Speaker 3>twenty five twenty two to twenty five training camps, which

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<v Speaker 3>I think is absolutely essential if you want to cover

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<v Speaker 3>the NFL the right way. But anyway, I do think

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<v Speaker 3>that aggregation is easy, and I think that, like if

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<v Speaker 3>you look, let's just say, the show Inside the NFL,

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<v Speaker 3>which you know I don't I'm not a regular watcher,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's you know, Chris Long, I think, Chad Johnson,

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<v Speaker 3>and I forget who Ryan Clark, you know, and they're

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<v Speaker 3>on it. They're sitting in a studio and they're talking

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<v Speaker 3>to me. Isn't that what every show is now? A

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<v Speaker 3>bunch of former players sitting around and talking. I like

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<v Speaker 3>all those guys, I truly do. But Inside the NFL

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<v Speaker 3>used to be a story, a show where we would

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<v Speaker 3>go do stories. You know, I worked there for six years,

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<v Speaker 3>where we would go do stories, real deep, well reported

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<v Speaker 3>stories on everybody around the NFL. I mean, I remember

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<v Speaker 3>I went and did Drew Brees when he was breaking

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<v Speaker 3>out in New Orleans, taking a walk with his dog

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<v Speaker 3>and he in Autumn Park in New Orleans. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's just a lot of these things.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so much easier to just sit in the studio now,

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<v Speaker 3>as ESPN does, as NFL Network does. It's just so

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<v Speaker 3>much easier to sit in the studio and less costly

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<v Speaker 3>than to actually go out and report. That bothers me

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<v Speaker 3>a lot about the future of our business, and not

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<v Speaker 3>just in covering the NFL and covering anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Talking with the great Peter King and yeah, I think

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<v Speaker 1>you were probably the first, you know, insider to do it.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's it's funny, that's a title I carry here

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<v Speaker 1>at this station. But I always ask, you know, what

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<v Speaker 1>are we exactly are we inside of I'm certainly we

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<v Speaker 1>certainly don't get the access that you used to you know,

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<v Speaker 1>quite a bit ago, and and and that sort of

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<v Speaker 1>fascinates me, the relationships watching you know, in your career

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<v Speaker 1>that you built up along the way, that you were

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<v Speaker 1>able to have those those moments, those exposures, those conversations,

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<v Speaker 1>and be able to do that. And I must confess

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<v Speaker 1>from my end, there's a there's a whiff of jealousy

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<v Speaker 1>that that does not exist in that measure, you know, anymore,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least very rarely in the in anymore as

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<v Speaker 1>far as that goes, you know, pivoting a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>to football and talking about these playoffs, and you mentioned.

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<v Speaker 2>The Kansas City in the Texans game. You got an interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Matchup here with Buffalo and Baltimore coming up here probably

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<v Speaker 1>the one and two votes for the MVP. I think

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<v Speaker 1>that's what the second time that's happened.

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<v Speaker 2>When you had Peyton Manning Tom Brady do it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's fascinating to me because these are two quarterbacks

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<v Speaker 1>that almost no one believed in when they were coming out.

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<v Speaker 1>Lamar Jackson was a guy that they suggested you convert

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<v Speaker 1>to wide receiver. Josh could throw the ball a mile,

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<v Speaker 1>but you wondered if that'd be within a half mile

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<v Speaker 1>of the target. As we look at this now and

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<v Speaker 1>how this has evolved, what do you take away from

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<v Speaker 1>the way that these young men's careers started to where

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<v Speaker 1>they are now.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I think Lamar Jackson is so interesting because he

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of the you know, the tip of the

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<v Speaker 3>iceberg for really really good quarterbacks who were also and

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<v Speaker 3>everybody would say, well, what about Michael Vick. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think Michael Vick was as good a quarterback as you

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<v Speaker 3>know as Lamar Jackson has turned out to be. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>he clearly was equal as an athlete maybe better, who knows,

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, but they're both incredibly good running the

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<v Speaker 3>ball and all that. But I do think that one

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<v Speaker 3>of the great things that we have seen about Lamar

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<v Speaker 3>Jackson is he's become more of a complete player than

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<v Speaker 3>he was when he came in the game. Now, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>he still does have a little bit of the you know,

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<v Speaker 3>you got to play better in the playoffs residue to him,

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<v Speaker 3>and you know he's done. He obviously did fine in

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<v Speaker 3>his first game this postseason. But you know, this is

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of game this weekend that makes legacies. It

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<v Speaker 3>just does. And at some point Lamark to be a great,

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<v Speaker 3>great player, Lamar ja is going to have to win

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<v Speaker 3>huge games, and a kind of game this weekend is

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<v Speaker 3>a huge game. But I'll tell you the one thing

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<v Speaker 3>I really like about Josh Allen, I mean, I love this.

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<v Speaker 3>I remember Josh Allen's second year in the league, his

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<v Speaker 3>completion percent or a third year in the league, rather,

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<v Speaker 3>his completion percentage went way up. This was I think

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<v Speaker 3>it was twenty twenty. His completion percentage went up like

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<v Speaker 3>ten points. And I remember I ran into Tony Romo,

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<v Speaker 3>and Romo told me that basically he had had a

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<v Speaker 3>conversation with Josh Allen the previous year at the Super Bowl,

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<v Speaker 3>and in essence, you know, talk to him a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit about how, hey, you gotta get better. You gotta

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<v Speaker 3>you know, you got to get better at all aspects

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<v Speaker 3>of your game and all facets of your game. And

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<v Speaker 3>Josh Allen went to work on being a better and

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<v Speaker 3>more accurate pass. Yes. And I think it just goes

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<v Speaker 3>to show you, honestly, that you very rarely find quarterbacks

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<v Speaker 3>who come into the NFL as finished products. It's one

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<v Speaker 3>of the reasons why, quite honestly, if I were a

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<v Speaker 3>Broncos fan, I would be so damn excited about the

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<v Speaker 3>future because look what happened to bo Nicks this year, when,

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<v Speaker 3>first of all, there were a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 3>were kind of negative about him anyway coming in, and

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<v Speaker 3>you know, he had the kind of year you know

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<v Speaker 3>that you just say, oh my gosh, this guy was

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<v Speaker 3>significantly better as a rookie than Peyton Manning was than

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<v Speaker 3>almost all rookie quarterbacks are. And yet and he has

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of attitude you can just tell that he

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<v Speaker 3>is burning to learn, and he's with a coach who

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<v Speaker 3>can teach him so you know. To me, I love

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<v Speaker 3>that game this weekend, but it also reminds me that

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<v Speaker 3>you're never in the first You're never going to be

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<v Speaker 3>a great, great quarterback, a flawless quarterback in your first

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<v Speaker 3>couple of years. It takes time, and both of these

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<v Speaker 3>guys are proving that.

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<v Speaker 4>Hey, Peter Grant Smiths here and as a fellow Bobcat,

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<v Speaker 4>it's an honor to chat with you. I remember reading

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<v Speaker 4>the article last year when they posted it on their

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<v Speaker 4>website about you reflecting.

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<v Speaker 2>On your forty years and the future of sports.

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<v Speaker 4>Journalism, And with your conversation with Ben here tonight, I

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<v Speaker 4>wonder what advice you would have for someone who's up

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<v Speaker 4>and coming in this industry or trying to get into it.

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<v Speaker 4>What would you tell them to really focus on in

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<v Speaker 4>their career.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I've actually talked to doing some teaching at Seaton

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<v Speaker 3>Hall in New Jersey, and one of the things that

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<v Speaker 3>I've said is, you know, I don't care. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>if you really want to do this job, if you

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<v Speaker 3>really want to do this job, you got to be versatile,

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<v Speaker 3>you got to be well read, and I mean you

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<v Speaker 3>got to read some books. Get off your phone, Get

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<v Speaker 3>off your phone. You know, the phone has become a

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<v Speaker 3>crutch for so many people, and it doesn't help you.

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<v Speaker 3>It really doesn't help you. You need to actually learn

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<v Speaker 3>to be a better writer, and you learn to be

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<v Speaker 3>a better writer by reading. So that's one thing I think.

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<v Speaker 3>The second thing I would say in terms of versatility,

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<v Speaker 3>we have no idea in the next five or ten

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<v Speaker 3>years how stories are going to be told. One of

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<v Speaker 3>the things that I was very lucky to do was

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<v Speaker 3>to have the ability to be in this sort of

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<v Speaker 3>golden era of sports writing. I mean, I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>if I came along today, what would I do? Would

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<v Speaker 3>I have to Even though I had a podcast near

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<v Speaker 3>the end, and I did work a lot in TV

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<v Speaker 3>and I did do some radio, you get the feeling

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<v Speaker 3>that you know, you're not really going to make a

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<v Speaker 3>great living long term by just simply writing. You've got

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<v Speaker 3>to do other things. So I would urge people to

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<v Speaker 3>be versatile. But you know the bottom line in this

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<v Speaker 3>whole thing, unless you're curious, you have no chance. You

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<v Speaker 3>got to be curious, and you have to exercise that

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<v Speaker 3>curiosity every day. When you watch the Denver Broncos, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>when you wake up on Monday morning, if you cover

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<v Speaker 3>the Denver Broncos. You have to say, Okay, here's my

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<v Speaker 3>off season project. How is bo Nicks going to get

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<v Speaker 3>better in year two? And I would I mean, I

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<v Speaker 3>don't care if you have access to bow Nicks or

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<v Speaker 3>Peyton or our college coach or maybe his off season

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<v Speaker 3>quarterback coach, whoever it is, but you know the one

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<v Speaker 3>story in Denver that everybody wants to know. I think

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know, it's what I would want to know.

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<v Speaker 3>Tell me about bo Nix in year two? How is

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<v Speaker 3>he going to be better? So, I mean, those are

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<v Speaker 3>the kind of stories that, in my opinion, I think

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<v Speaker 3>you have to be totally focused on. You got to

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<v Speaker 3>be curious about. Peter.

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<v Speaker 1>We vastly appreciate your time. Thank you for being so

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<v Speaker 1>generous and gracious with it, and you made the evening

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe even the year of young grad Smith in there.

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<v Speaker 1>We certainly appreciate you you jumping on here for a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit, and I wish you well in your retirements,

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<v Speaker 1>and I hope that you are living your best life

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<v Speaker 1>right now. You are an inspiration of myself and many others,

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<v Speaker 1>and I again appreciate your time this evening.

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<v Speaker 3>Appreciate it, guys. Thanks a lot for having me all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Take care, Peter King, the Great Peter King,