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Speaker 8: You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking
Speaker 8: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 8: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 8: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 8: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 8: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. Good evening, the sound
Speaker 8: of snagging, snapping twigs closed in on the five teenagers
Speaker 8: enjoying an evening around the blowing campfire at Gitchee Manitou
Speaker 8: State Park. The night of music and laughter had taken
Speaker 8: a dark turn. Evil loomed just beyond the tree line,
Speaker 8: and before the night was over, one of the Midwest's
Speaker 8: most horrific mass murders had left its blood stained spewed
Speaker 8: across the campsite. One managed to survive and would come
Speaker 8: to be known as the Gitchee Girl. Harrowing memories of
Speaker 8: the testifying crime sent her spiraling out of control, and
Speaker 8: she grasps at every avenue to rebuild her life. Can
Speaker 8: one man, a rescue dog, and a glimmer of faith
Speaker 8: salvage a broken soul? This true story will touch your
Speaker 8: heart and leave you cheering that a good can prevail
Speaker 8: over the depravity of mankind. Through extensive extensive research, interviews,
Speaker 8: and personal insight, the authors bring a riveting look at
Speaker 8: the heinous crime that shook the Midwest in the early
Speaker 8: nineteen seventies. Written from rare inside interviews with the lone
Speaker 8: survivor who broke really nearly four decades of silence, this
Speaker 8: shocking yet moving story will not soon be forgotten. The
Speaker 8: book that we're featuring this evening is The Getchy Girl,
Speaker 8: the survivor's inside story of the mass murders that shock
Speaker 8: the Heartland, with my special guest, journalist and author Phil Hamman.
Speaker 8: Welcome to the program, and thank you for a green
Speaker 8: this interview. Phil Hamman.
Speaker 10: How you doing, Dan, very good, Thank you for joining
Speaker 10: me on the program tonight. And I hope I didn't
Speaker 10: mispronounce your last name.
Speaker 4: Phil Hammon, like kind of like the Hammond Oregon Hammon.
Speaker 10: There we go. Sorry, Thank you very much for clarifying
Speaker 10: that Haman Hammond, Phil Hammond. Get okay, Thanks, thank you.
Speaker 10: Let's start off with setting these stage for where this
Speaker 10: incredible crime occurs, and this is Sue Falls, South Dakota.
Speaker 10: So tell us where Sioux Falls South Dakota is in proximity.
Speaker 10: We talk about Iowa in this in this case, in
Speaker 10: this story predominantly. So let's talk about Sioux Falls, South Dakota. First.
Speaker 10: What's it like. Where is it located?
Speaker 4: Well, Soup Falls, South Dakota is the largest city in
Speaker 4: the state of South Dakota, dan And it's located in
Speaker 4: the very eastern southern part of South Dakota. And it
Speaker 4: butts Sooux Falls butts right up, you know, just a
Speaker 4: few miles away from the Iowa border, Okay. And get
Speaker 4: Chi Manitu is a state park. Well, it's a state
Speaker 4: preserved now it's been turned into a wildlife preserve, but
Speaker 4: at the time it was a state park. And it's
Speaker 4: located about twelve miles east of Sioux Falls, South Dakota.
Speaker 4: And Getchi Manitu. In fact, when I was a kid
Speaker 4: growing up, I'm from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, I always
Speaker 4: thought Getchi Manitude, you know, with the whole park was
Speaker 4: in the state of Iowa. But I found out during
Speaker 4: the research for this book that a small portion of
Speaker 4: it does lie in South Dakota. So that's how close
Speaker 4: it is.
Speaker 10: Now. This is also the land of a nihian Nabi
Speaker 10: Indians and and plays quite a prenominant part in this
Speaker 10: story as well. So tell us a little bit about
Speaker 10: the history of Anisian Abi Indians and the reserve and
Speaker 10: that area.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, there are some Indian burial mounds out there.
Speaker 4: Getchi Manitou actually means great spirit. So around this area
Speaker 4: in the Midwest, you know, you have a lot of
Speaker 4: Native American names, and getchi Manitou is Native American for
Speaker 4: great spirit. And there are burial mounds out there. That's
Speaker 4: actually a very beautiful park, a lot of pink outcrop cropping, rocks,
Speaker 4: you know, a lot of trails. The Big Sioux River
Speaker 4: winds through there. It's kind of a kind of a
Speaker 4: beautiful park. But you know, now it's got such a
Speaker 4: sinister background that you know, it's it's got a very uh,
Speaker 4: you know, you know, heinous reputation.
Speaker 10: Now, now let's go back to Now this crime occurs
Speaker 10: in the early seventy seventy three, but let's go back
Speaker 10: to Sandra Chesky and describe her life with her siblings.
Speaker 10: And it's very important some of the things that do
Speaker 10: happen in her life, and so we'll have to talk
Speaker 10: about that because it really makes a big difference on
Speaker 10: the night in question as well. So let's go back to.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, yeah, this girl is a huge survivor
Speaker 4: throughout so many different things of her life. Dan, you
Speaker 4: know she she does have a little Native American in her,
Speaker 4: uh you know the you know her her mom and
Speaker 4: dad end up stay stayed together. She was raised pretty
Speaker 4: much in a single mom home, three older brothers. She's
Speaker 4: the youngest. She was. Actually, she was born in the
Speaker 4: backseat of a car. Her mom was trying to get
Speaker 4: to the hospital. They had an inexperienced driver when her
Speaker 4: mother went into labor, and Sam made her arrival in
Speaker 4: the back seat of a car. It's kind of an
Speaker 4: interesting story. In fact, after the book came out, we
Speaker 4: didn't know this, but one of a lady contacted her
Speaker 4: and said, Sandra, I was actually in the back seat
Speaker 4: I delivered you. I was a young girl. My mother
Speaker 4: was the driver, and when we got to the to
Speaker 4: the rural hospital, you'd already been born. I wrapped you
Speaker 4: in a towel and took you in. By the time
Speaker 4: we got back home, you know, you know what the
Speaker 4: seats probably looked like after giving birth back there, they
Speaker 4: were bloody. They took the seat out of the back
Speaker 4: seat of the car. They set it up against a barn,
Speaker 4: and a nosy neighbor thought somebody had been murdered, so
Speaker 4: they called the sheriffs who came and investigated and Sandra.
Speaker 4: So Sandra made her arrival in the backseat of a car,
Speaker 4: and so some other things that happened to her. Dan
Speaker 4: there was a man in her mom's life that didn't
Speaker 4: really want the kids around. She was shipped off to
Speaker 4: a foster family, had real bad experience there. Then when
Speaker 4: she did come home, she was shipped off to a mission,
Speaker 4: a Native American boarding school. And back in those it
Speaker 4: was a pretty harsh environment, uh, you know, and she
Speaker 4: was considered too white by a lot of the Native
Speaker 4: American kids, so she was discriminated against and bullied, and
Speaker 4: so she had she had a pretty hard life. And
Speaker 4: you know, and then of course to get umanitu incident
Speaker 4: takes place in her life. So this girl has had
Speaker 4: to overcome a lot.
Speaker 10: Now, just not to explain that, to clarify that her
Speaker 10: it's not like her mother doesn't want her. It's we
Speaker 10: talk about the man in her life not really wanting her.
Speaker 10: And that's how she ended up in foster home and
Speaker 10: that's how she ended up in this boarding house is
Speaker 10: boarding school as well. But the thing was that she
Speaker 10: always implored to her mother and appeal to her mother,
Speaker 10: and her mother would try to get her back at home.
Speaker 10: So eventually Sandra is reunited with her mother. Lola, isn't she?
Speaker 4: Yes, and and and again her mother was a good gal.
Speaker 4: You know how I can go, and you know, the
Speaker 4: mom isn't always calling the shots. And you know, her
Speaker 4: mother did always come back. I can take care of her.
Speaker 4: But then, of course she was a single mom, not
Speaker 4: making very much money, trying to raise four children, and
Speaker 4: so she has gone working a lot too. But Sandra
Speaker 4: always had a good relationship with her mother. Speaks highly
Speaker 4: of her mother, and you know, there's just circumstances of life,
Speaker 4: you know, dan as you know how it can go.
Speaker 10: Now, what type of girl was she we're talking about
Speaker 10: Now we'll get closer to this summer before the incident
Speaker 10: in nineteen seventy three, but describe Sandra in terms of
Speaker 10: her you know, with her other playmates and other people
Speaker 10: at school. She has survived again some adverse situations already
Speaker 10: in her life, and she's back with her mother and
Speaker 10: has a brother. She has a good relationship in her family.
Speaker 10: So just tell us where she's at in terms of
Speaker 10: sort of relationships with other people and sort of what
Speaker 10: kind of time is it in her life that summer.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, she's a very she makes friends very easily.
Speaker 4: She's a very bubbly person, very upbeat, very mature, young lady.
Speaker 4: She had a lot of friends. Okay, she was very outgoing.
Speaker 4: She was very naive young girl. You know, when a
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff comes down, you'll find out that
Speaker 4: a lot of her experiences came from watching The Brady
Speaker 4: Bunch on TV or Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. You know,
Speaker 4: she was pretty, you know, pretty naive about a lot
Speaker 4: of things in the world. But she was a good kid.
Speaker 4: You know, she had a lot of friends. She was
Speaker 4: very outgoing, very bubbly, very happy. She hung out with
Speaker 4: her brothers who were older. Some of her friends were
Speaker 4: a few years older when Sandra. This incident that gets
Speaker 4: you took place when Sandra was thirteen. Now I've known
Speaker 4: this girl personally since we've been teenagers. You know, she
Speaker 4: was a very beautiful young lady. She didn't look like
Speaker 4: she was thirteen. She was thirteen, looking like she was seventeen,
Speaker 4: but she was still thirteen at the time this took place.
Speaker 10: And we're talking about not only talking we're talking about
Speaker 10: an innocent time. We're talking about a pretty inno and
Speaker 10: young girl as well, not very experienced in terms of
Speaker 10: it's really odd reading it because now we're talking about
Speaker 10: that many years, forty years as a big time spence
Speaker 10: in terms of how people view things. But she was
Speaker 10: a pretty innocent girl in a pretty innocent time in
Speaker 10: a small town, wasn't she.
Speaker 4: Yeah? And you know she lived in a small town
Speaker 4: just outside of Sioux Falls now Sue Falls. South Dakota
Speaker 4: at that time was about eighty thousand people, but it
Speaker 4: was a Midwest dan We were a sheltered environment. I mean,
Speaker 4: there was not a lot of crime that took place.
Speaker 4: It was like a small town cety, even though Falls
Speaker 4: was the largest town in the state of South Dakota.
Speaker 4: But she was a good kid, naive, but she was
Speaker 4: a very bubbly, happy, outgoing person at this time.
Speaker 10: To talk about and not to give anything away, but
Speaker 10: I just want to elaborate on that point. We're talking
Speaker 10: about a sheriff and the one deputy, aren't.
Speaker 4: We Yes, well yes, because the murder took place actually
Speaker 4: in Iowa, Lyon County, just outside of Rock Rapids, Iowa,
Speaker 4: which is a very small community. And so the jurisdiction
Speaker 4: fell under the local sheriff there and his one deputy. Okay,
Speaker 4: so yeah, and that's where the jurisdiction of this murder
Speaker 4: took place. So they were heavily involved in this investigation.
Speaker 10: Now, Sandra is a normal, you know, normal young lady,
Speaker 10: and she's thirteen years old in this summer, and so
Speaker 10: tell us the circumstances where she meets a young man
Speaker 10: that she's been smitten by. Is this Roger?
Speaker 4: Roger Ye knew him well, lived right by me. Actually,
Speaker 4: you know, for the listeners, Dan, I do have a
Speaker 4: personal connection to this murder. My former best friend was
Speaker 4: one of the boys murdered out there. I knew all
Speaker 4: the other teenagers that were murdered. And again I've known
Speaker 4: Sandra Chesky since we were teenagers. How she met Sandra's thirteen,
Speaker 4: Roger Ressem is seventeen. They met at the drive in
Speaker 4: movie theater, which was a big place for kids to go.
Speaker 4: Sandra came into town with a friend of hers who
Speaker 4: was three years older than her. Sandra's looking like she's seventeen.
Speaker 4: She happens to run into Roger Wresseam, who is seventeen,
Speaker 4: who went to sux Falls, Washington High School, same high
Speaker 4: school that I attended, And they just happened to running
Speaker 4: into each other at the concession stand of the drive
Speaker 4: in movie theater. They spark up a conversation, they kind
Speaker 4: of hit it off. Roger gets her phone number and
Speaker 4: he calls her up and they start dating. Sandra never
Speaker 4: did tell him her real age. She kind of just
Speaker 4: kind of avoided that topic and just said that she
Speaker 4: went to Harrisburg High School, which was outside of the
Speaker 4: city of Soux Falls. And you know, that plays itself
Speaker 4: out in the book. We talk about that a little more.
Speaker 10: Now. I talked about experience. So in terms of this
Speaker 10: thirteen year old, how experience is is she in this
Speaker 10: type of relationship and what does she think this relationship is?
Speaker 10: How serious the you take it? And in terms of
Speaker 10: expressing it with her friend, like her best friend Debbie.
Speaker 4: Well, you know right away, of course she's all I mean,
Speaker 4: Roger was a very good looking guy, very outgoing, very
Speaker 4: well liked young man. I mean, she was just elated, bubbly,
Speaker 4: I mean, and they had, they dated, they went on dates,
Speaker 4: and but it was very innocent. Uh And I will say,
Speaker 4: I'll tell the reader or your listeners right up front.
Speaker 4: Obviously there's going to be a sexual assault that takes
Speaker 4: place on this young lady later on during this crime.
Speaker 4: She was a virgin at the time. They had a
Speaker 4: very innocent relationship. You know, they kissed, held hands. It
Speaker 4: was it was a typical first love kind of a
Speaker 4: situation for Sandracewski.
Speaker 10: Right. How much did her mother, even though she was busy,
Speaker 10: you know, going to school, she got a nursing degree,
Speaker 10: so she was a very busy woman, tried to take
Speaker 10: care of her her children, but she was away from
Speaker 10: the home a little bit. How much did she know
Speaker 10: about out her merging interest in boys and this Roger
Speaker 10: in particular. Do she know anything about that at all?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, I you know, I don't believe that
Speaker 4: her mom. I think her mom knew that she you know,
Speaker 4: went on some dates with some boys, and you know,
Speaker 4: but it was kind of a time when I don't
Speaker 4: think her mom hovered over her. She was always a
Speaker 4: good kid. She was responsible, you know, she had her
Speaker 4: older brothers looking after her. Now, when her and Roger
Speaker 4: were on dates. Stuart Baby, which he was Roger's friend,
Speaker 4: was generally always with him because he drove. Stuart had
Speaker 4: a van and Roger didn't, you know, so there was
Speaker 4: always it was kind of like dates with two three
Speaker 4: four people all the time. They were always off doing
Speaker 4: something with a group. Was that kind of a thing, Dan,
Speaker 4: And so, yeah, her mom and again that night. You know,
Speaker 4: people will ask, what's the thirteen year old girl doing
Speaker 4: now with those boys. Well, it was nine o'clock. Her
Speaker 4: mom was working when they headed out there. You know,
Speaker 4: of course, she had a little more liberal freedoms than
Speaker 4: some girls her age because her mom was gone working
Speaker 4: late at night. You know, her brothers were you know, older,
Speaker 4: and so of course she went off with their boyfriend
Speaker 4: for a date. That night, they went out to get
Speaker 4: you Manitud State Park with a group of friends and
Speaker 4: they were going to build a fire and hang out.
Speaker 4: Two of the boys were aspires. They brought a guitar along.
Speaker 4: They were going to play and sing and you know,
Speaker 4: hang out for a few hours. It was get you
Speaker 4: Manitud was a very popular hangout for teenagers. They'd go
Speaker 4: there and build a fire and hang out.
Speaker 10: You know, Now these guys are pretty innocent guys. But
Speaker 10: you know, like anybody thirteen, you know, I totally can
Speaker 10: relate thirteen years old somebody at that point when they're partying.
Speaker 10: Is there any alcohol involved, there's any drugs involved?
Speaker 4: They had no alcohol. Somebody had a marijuana joint. One
Speaker 4: of the older boys pulled out a marijuana joint and
Speaker 4: they had it and they and you know, and Vietnam
Speaker 4: was still playing itself out at that time, Dan, I
Speaker 4: can't hardly remember going to a get together party as
Speaker 4: I was grown up during that area where somebody somewhere
Speaker 4: didn't have a little marijuana. They were out on a
Speaker 4: back cack or they were down in a basement. A
Speaker 4: couple of these old boys did have one did have
Speaker 4: some marijuana, and I'm assuming it might be one of
Speaker 4: the aspiring musicians, you know. And again you know, they
Speaker 4: had a marijuana joint and so but they had no alcohol.
Speaker 10: Pardon me, now, when they first went to this area,
Speaker 10: did they notice anything out of the the usual or
Speaker 10: anything unusual? I would say? And did they do anything
Speaker 10: as a result of what they had seen?
Speaker 4: When you come into give the listeners a little visual
Speaker 4: and you plenty gets you manitud Park, it was like
Speaker 4: a dirt road, okay, and it was kind of like
Speaker 4: grass in the center. It was like the two tire
Speaker 4: tire had worn a groove on each side, and you
Speaker 4: drove back in. And after you went in about a
Speaker 4: quarter of a mile, there was an old block camp
Speaker 4: shelter where you could build a fireplace in there. There
Speaker 4: was like a picnic table in there. That's where the
Speaker 4: kids first stopped. They were going to build a fire there.
Speaker 4: When they went over there, they found the fire. There
Speaker 4: was still hot coals in the fire, and so they
Speaker 4: you know, they just assumed that maybe somebody was just
Speaker 4: there or going to come back, and so they went
Speaker 4: down along the river always about another seventy five hundred
Speaker 4: yards to another little area where there was a the
Speaker 4: ability to build a fire. So they were down closer
Speaker 4: to the river, up away from this block camp shelter,
Speaker 4: and that's an old rustic pink stone camp shelter, kind
Speaker 4: of a neat looking thing. And then the big Siou
Speaker 4: River kind of winds through there. It's kind of a
Speaker 4: it's not really a stream, but it's not a real
Speaker 4: huge river. It's just kind of a medium sized river.
Speaker 4: And so a lot of trees are on there, and
Speaker 4: so that's where they went to build their fire.
Speaker 10: Okay, they were they had picked up Sandra at about
Speaker 10: eight o'clock. She thought they might have picked up earlier.
Speaker 10: But they had some side tracks or some detours that
Speaker 10: the young man was driving said he had had to do.
Speaker 10: So they were there. I don't know what time, So
Speaker 10: maybe you can tell us around what time this was
Speaker 10: and what they started to do. What was the They
Speaker 10: had a couple of guitars. Did they start singing? Drink?
Speaker 10: Of course, they didn't have any alcohol. Yeah.
Speaker 4: When they Yeah, they got down, they got to get
Speaker 4: you manity. They got down to the campsite shelter. It
Speaker 4: was about probably about ten o'clock by the time they
Speaker 4: gathered their wood, you know, got it set in there,
Speaker 4: got the fire started. You know, they pulled some logs
Speaker 4: up around the fire. You know, you can kind of
Speaker 4: visualize the singer's trees all around out croppings of rocks,
Speaker 4: and so it's probably about ten o'clock at night, but
Speaker 4: the fog rolls in and out's starting to get foggy,
Speaker 4: and and so here they're setting around this glowing campfire.
Speaker 4: You know, they're talking, they're playing, singing some songs. You know,
Speaker 4: and this is when they start hearing some strange sounds,
Speaker 4: often in the tree line around them. You know, they're
Speaker 4: hearing snapping of twigs and like brushing sounds, kind of
Speaker 4: like a cold against a tree lamb, crumbling of leaves.
Speaker 4: And every time the kids would go quiet to listen,
Speaker 4: and the kind of the the sounds would go quiet started
Speaker 4: spooking them, is what happened.
Speaker 10: Right, And as a result, what did they what did
Speaker 10: they do?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, they at first they you know, they
Speaker 4: you know, Sandra was getting a little worried. But then
Speaker 4: you know, the older boys they said it was probably
Speaker 4: just raccoons or just again you've got to remember their
Speaker 4: their teenage kids are out for the Nay, this is
Speaker 4: the Midwest. It's pretty sheltered, you know. They they get spooked,
Speaker 4: but yet they blow it off. They think, Okay, it's
Speaker 4: a raccoon. One of them jokes and says, maybe it's
Speaker 4: a bear. Well, there's no bearers in this area, so
Speaker 4: they knew it was, you know, so they just kind
Speaker 4: of laughed it off, okay, and so they just you know,
Speaker 4: continued their singing and talking and they just went about
Speaker 4: their business. Okay, now we know we know what happened.
Speaker 4: It was those the murderers were sneaking up and spying
Speaker 4: on them, and then backing off and talking about what
Speaker 4: they wanted to do and coming back up again. That's
Speaker 4: where the sound were coming from, is what was happening.
Speaker 10: What prompts the intruders to make an appearance? What happens?
Speaker 10: What do the there's more noise in these in these
Speaker 10: woods as they approach, So what happens?
Speaker 4: Okay, so the kids are setting around, Roger stands up.
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Speaker 4: Okay, and they hear some more sound and Roger steps
Speaker 4: away from the fire. Her boyfriend, Roger has some steps
Speaker 4: away from the fire, and they see some shadowy figures
Speaker 4: starting to come at them out of the trees, and
Speaker 4: he yells, who are you? What do you want? And
Speaker 4: at that point, the explosion of a shotgun goes off,
Speaker 4: and then now the chaos starts. Okay, immediately, there's you know, fear,
Speaker 4: there's you know, all this confusion. My former best friend
Speaker 4: Mike Hadraf, he's fifteen at the time. By the way,
Speaker 4: he was a tremendous athlete, played with him on basketball
Speaker 4: and baseball teams, multiple President's Physical Fitness Award winner. He
Speaker 4: grabs Sandra and drags her back away from the shooting
Speaker 4: into the trees. And they're back next to the river
Speaker 4: and the trees, hiding, and they can hear, you know,
Speaker 4: there's more shots. They can hear wailing and screaming, and
Speaker 4: they're back. They're just fright and confused. They don't know
Speaker 4: what's going on. Sandra's thirteen, my best friend is fifteen.
Speaker 4: And they're hiding.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: Now, Sandras said she did see Roger crumple and fall,
Speaker 4: and she looked up and saw one of the assailants
Speaker 4: with the shotgun up to his shoulder. Okay, and so
Speaker 4: now they're back in the trees hiding.
Speaker 10: Now the screams that you're talking about, is that related
Speaker 10: to and they do they believe this to be Stu
Speaker 10: and his brother is fourteen year orother fourteen year old brother, Dana.
Speaker 4: It turned out to be Stuart, the one who drove,
Speaker 4: who had the van. Roger's friend. He was, you know,
Speaker 4: he was severely wounded and he was the one that
Speaker 4: was yelling. But they're back in the trees. They don't
Speaker 4: know if it's Roger yelling. They don't know if it's
Speaker 4: Stuart baby yelling. They don't know if it's Dana Baty,
Speaker 4: Stuart's younger brother who is fourteen. They're just confused or frightened.
Speaker 4: It's just chaos.
Speaker 10: So are they in a spot where they are hidden
Speaker 10: from these potentially from these and these assailants looking for them?
Speaker 10: And in that moment when they're together, what's the plan?
Speaker 10: Do they say anything to each other? What do they well?
Speaker 4: Again again, Sandra's going, what's going on? And my buddy
Speaker 4: Mike is saying, I don't know. I don't know what's
Speaker 4: going on. Just stay down, stay still, don't move. You know,
Speaker 4: they're staying hidden behind a big tree. Don't run, you know,
Speaker 4: just stay hidden for right now. You know they can't see.
Speaker 4: They're up against the river. It's dark during the tree line.
Speaker 4: And then Dan, these killers are not only ruthless, but
Speaker 4: they're cunning. Now they start yelling where the place where
Speaker 4: with the police department? Come out with your hands up,
Speaker 4: Come out right now with your hands up? Where the police?
Speaker 4: Well you got a thirteen year old and a fifteen
Speaker 4: year old right away? Sandras says, why what are these
Speaker 4: cops doing? And my friend Mike says, I don't know,
Speaker 4: but these police have already shot as whatever you do
Speaker 4: don't run, okay, come out like they said. So they
Speaker 4: duped them, They fooled them, Dan, they came out of hiding.
Speaker 10: Now were they dressed in police uniforms? What was it
Speaker 10: about them that looked like police to them even remotely?
Speaker 4: Absolutely nothing? And that's where the confusion starts. In here's
Speaker 4: where the confusion starts. Okay. They Now as soon as
Speaker 4: my friend and Sandra come walking out, they come walking
Speaker 4: out of the trees with their hands up towards the assailants.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 4: When they start getting closer, my friend says, what are
Speaker 4: you shooting at us?
Speaker 2: For?
Speaker 4: One of the perpetrators raises a shotgun and shoots him,
Speaker 4: drops him to the ground. Sandra, not hid herself, instinctively
Speaker 4: drops next to him and tries to play dead. Well,
Speaker 4: my friend is pretty severely wounded and his shoulder on
Speaker 4: the arm, but he tries to playing dead too. Now,
Speaker 4: as they're trying to play dead, they can see these
Speaker 4: shadowy figures moving around the campsite, walking back and forth, whispering, talking,
Speaker 4: and then they come over and kick them and make
Speaker 4: them get up. Okay. Now they start rounding the kids
Speaker 4: up that are wounded. Okay, and nothing looks like police officers.
Speaker 4: They're not dressed like police officers. So even though they
Speaker 4: say they're police officers, they say, you had some marijuana.
Speaker 4: We saw it, we could smell it. You're under arrest.
Speaker 4: While they're teenagers. They think we're under arrest. We did
Speaker 4: have some marijuana. But it's confusing. They're very frightened or confused.
Speaker 4: They're whispering to each other. You know, are they cops?
Speaker 4: Are they really cops? Should you know? Should we run?
Speaker 4: What should we do? Confusing to these kids.
Speaker 10: Now, where is the where's Dana?
Speaker 4: At this point, Ana had made it into hiding himself,
Speaker 4: just like my friend Mike and Sandra went off by himself.
Speaker 4: He got into the trees by himself, and and he
Speaker 4: had but he came walking out with his hands up too,
Speaker 4: as he was instructed by the phony police.
Speaker 10: Now, as much as these teens are and children are intimidated,
Speaker 10: they're still very vicious. Like you, you've noted in the
Speaker 10: book that they're very suspicious that these aren't police and
Speaker 10: this is not the actions of police officers. So do
Speaker 10: they do do they challenge them at all?
Speaker 4: You know, my friend Mike during the course of this thing.
Speaker 4: Now a lot of people from even from that Sioux
Speaker 4: Falls area. I mean, they're learning a lot about this murder.
Speaker 4: A lot of people thought it was a quick kill.
Speaker 4: They thought they came in and killed the boys and
Speaker 4: took the girl. Well it's not. It goes on and on,
Speaker 4: and you know, there's a lot more in the book.
Speaker 4: Obviously you know that. But they march these kids around
Speaker 4: and at one point, my friend, you know, who's wounded
Speaker 4: during while he's severely wounded, he's trying to talk to
Speaker 4: one of these perpetrators and asking him if he knows
Speaker 4: mister Jensen, who Sandra believes it was a police officer
Speaker 4: at the time. And we think that Mike was probably
Speaker 4: trying to see are they really police officers? Does he
Speaker 4: know mister Jensen? And you know, one of the murderer says, no,
Speaker 4: I don't know him. Just shut up, keep your mouth shut.
Speaker 4: You're under arrest. And so they're marching around, they go out,
Speaker 4: they whisper. I think these perpetrators are trying to decide
Speaker 4: what they're going to do. I think they believed that
Speaker 4: Dana Baby was a female two from a distance at
Speaker 4: that time, Dana had kind of long hair. It was
Speaker 4: early seventies and he had a jacket on. He was young,
Speaker 4: he was fourteen. You obviously could tell Sandra was a girl.
Speaker 4: I think they believed there were two girls because then
Speaker 4: they wanted toy asked the question how many girls are here?
Speaker 4: And they made them bring out IDs and show them.
Speaker 4: They took the perpetrators took it over by the headlamps
Speaker 4: of the pickup that they came to get umanitu in
Speaker 4: and looked at the IDs. So then they keep They
Speaker 4: make the kids sit down, you know, they go off,
Speaker 4: they talk, they converse. I think these killers are deciding
Speaker 4: what they're going to do with these kids. Okay, now,
Speaker 4: what a terribly horrible thing for these kids.
Speaker 10: Of course, Now what is the answer to their question
Speaker 10: in terms of the police sort of pacifying them that
Speaker 10: that their friends are not killed. But they tell us
Speaker 10: about this, Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4: They here's what they told they told Sandra. Sandra is
Speaker 4: asking where her boyfriend is, and they tell her he's
Speaker 4: been shot with a tranquilizer gun. He'll be okay, he'll
Speaker 4: come to in a little bit. Well, again, she's naive.
Speaker 4: She watched she grew up watching Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom,
Speaker 4: where they darted animals and things. She's naive. She she
Speaker 4: wants to believe that her boyfriend's been shot with a
Speaker 4: tranquilizer gun. You know, it's dark. She said, she didn't
Speaker 4: see the blood all over. My friend, Mike, just knew
Speaker 4: that he was you know, hit. And then she's you know,
Speaker 4: he's asking her to help him. Obviously, my friend knows
Speaker 4: he's severely wounded. He's kind of trying to keep it quiet.
Speaker 4: I don't think he's trying to you know, startle or
Speaker 4: panic this young girl. But he's severely wounded. He's asking
Speaker 4: her to help him walk as they march these kids
Speaker 4: around through the trees and things. Uh, you know, he
Speaker 4: can't feel his arm. He asked Sandra to lay his
Speaker 4: arm up against his stomach so he can hold on
Speaker 4: to it. You know, he'd been shot with a shot
Speaker 4: twelve gey shotgun. He's really wounded. Missandra is believing, you know,
Speaker 4: she they're telling her one thing and then she's seen
Speaker 4: another thing, and she wants to believe it's a tranquilizer gun.
Speaker 4: Are they cops? They don't act like cops. This is
Speaker 4: also scary and confusing.
Speaker 10: The rationale that the police give to pacify these child,
Speaker 10: this child and teenagers. For the motive for all of this.
Speaker 10: You talked on it about marijuana, but tell us the
Speaker 10: whole thing that the entire motive or logic behind why
Speaker 10: these they've been shot and why they're being arrested and
Speaker 10: kind of the conversation they give to them in terms
Speaker 10: of well, we'll get to that a little bit later.
Speaker 10: About him talking to Sandra about giving her a break.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and they keep just saying, you're under arrest,
Speaker 4: this is a drug bust. Keep your mouth shut, do
Speaker 4: as you're told, you know, walk with your hands in
Speaker 4: the air, sit down. Yeah, they're gonna go to jail,
Speaker 4: you know, this one, this one is that wound is
Speaker 4: going to go to the police, the jail, hospital, and
Speaker 4: the rest of them are going to be going to
Speaker 4: worst places. You're going to be locked up for who
Speaker 4: knows how long you're in Iowa. Iowa's harder on marijuana.
Speaker 4: You guys never should have had that marijuana. You're in
Speaker 4: big trouble. You know. They're they're doing this kind of
Speaker 4: thing to these kids. For the boys who are a
Speaker 4: little older, they're whispering, are they really cops? They don't,
Speaker 4: they don't They don't act like cops, even under cover cops.
Speaker 4: Would they use this kind of force on us, you know,
Speaker 4: and Sanders going, but they are cops who you know,
Speaker 4: you know, we have to listen to what they say.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 4: It's they keep duping these kids while they're marching around
Speaker 4: deciding what they're going to do with them. And of
Speaker 4: course we're going to talk about that. We know what
Speaker 4: ends up happening to these kids.
Speaker 10: Well, let's talk about the villains here just before we
Speaker 10: get to the actual details.
Speaker 4: Okay, let's talk.
Speaker 10: About what names that the the kids actually hear them
Speaker 10: being referred to before we get Alan.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there're three brothers, end up being three brothers, Dan
Speaker 4: Alan Fryar, James Fryar, and David Fryar. Alan Fryar is
Speaker 4: the oldest, twenty nine years old, but they kept referring
Speaker 4: to him as the boss. He called himself the boss. Okay,
Speaker 4: so Sandra refers to him as the boss. That's uh.
Speaker 4: James Fryar, the twenty four year old, he's referred to
Speaker 4: as Jr. Now his real name is James Fryer. And
Speaker 4: then the other one, the youngest one who's twenty one
Speaker 4: years old, David fryar during the during the time of
Speaker 4: this scary session that's going on with these kids, he's
Speaker 4: referred to his hatchet face. So these kids are only
Speaker 4: hearing these guys being called by nicknames. Okay, so they're
Speaker 4: trying to think, is that because they're undercover, they don't
Speaker 4: want anybody to know their real names, you know. Well,
Speaker 4: so it's the Boss Jr. And hatchet Face while these
Speaker 4: kids are being at gunpoint.
Speaker 10: Now what happens? What's the what? What precipitates them being separated?
Speaker 10: Sandra being separated from the other two boys and and
Speaker 10: has dealings with the boss. Tell us about this incident
Speaker 10: and when without giving anything away.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, these friars have come to get you.
Speaker 4: Manitud State Park in a pickup truck. The three brothers
Speaker 4: have been or together in a pickup truck. When they
Speaker 4: came out there, they heard the guitar plan, they heard
Speaker 4: the kids talk, and that's they parked their pickup truck
Speaker 4: and came and snuck up and spied on these kids
Speaker 4: and conversed about what they were going to do. Okay,
Speaker 4: So hatchet Face comes driving up into the thickets of
Speaker 4: the trees with the pickup truck. They take Sander. They
Speaker 4: wire her hands behind her back. Okay, these three brothers
Speaker 4: had gotten together, and so Hatchet Face drives a pickup truck.
Speaker 4: They put Sander's hands behind her back, they wire them
Speaker 4: with wire. They tell her they forgot handcuffs, so they're
Speaker 4: going to use this wire. They put her in the
Speaker 4: pickup truck. Okay, and the boss, James Fryar, is going
Speaker 4: to put a gunnysack over her head. Now here's where
Speaker 4: I I think this girl one of the reasons she
Speaker 4: saved herself in a sense. You know, when you're in
Speaker 4: a hosting situations, they say you're trying to always try
Speaker 4: to humanize yourself to your you know, to your perpetrator.
Speaker 4: When she was gonna put that gunnysack on her head,
Speaker 4: she kind of twisted her headway and said, no, no,
Speaker 4: don't put that over my head. No, please don't. And
Speaker 4: for whatever reason, he stopped and he didn't put it
Speaker 4: on her head. I think that kept her more human
Speaker 4: at that point. Okay, now the other boys are made
Speaker 4: to stay, setting down and the wounded boys and Dana.
Speaker 4: Now Roger didn't appear. I'll just say right up front
Speaker 4: that Roger was killed instantly at the campfire. So you've
Speaker 4: got my friend who's wounded, You've got Dana who's unwounded,
Speaker 4: and you've got Steward who's pretty severely wounded. Okay, those
Speaker 4: boys are made to sit down while they put Sandra
Speaker 4: in the pickup truck. Okay. The boss the boss and
Speaker 4: gets in the pickup with Sandra and puts the vehicle
Speaker 4: and drive and starts slowly driving away. Sandra looks back,
Speaker 4: makes eye contact with the boys and she said it
Speaker 4: was the most mournful things she's ever seen. She could
Speaker 4: just see it in their eyes. And the boss takes
Speaker 4: off with Sandra. Okay, and the other the wounded boys
Speaker 4: and danear left back with Jr. And hatchet Face.
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Speaker 10: Let's get back to as Sandra drove away with the boss.
Speaker 10: What happened next?
Speaker 4: Well, the Boss takes off with Sandra. They drive off
Speaker 4: into the dark. They leave the boys, the other two perpetrators.
Speaker 4: They go get Stuart's ban, they bring it up. They
Speaker 4: make the boys stand on the side of the road,
Speaker 4: They turn the vehicle around, put the headlights on them,
Speaker 4: and the boys are executed. They're finished off with shotgun blasts.
Speaker 4: And I think one of the one of the things
Speaker 4: these these brothers had been out to that park to
Speaker 4: try to poach a deer. So those twelve gate shotguns,
Speaker 4: at least one of them was loaded with double lot
Speaker 4: buck shot. Anybody that knows anything about shotguns knows what
Speaker 4: they were using those. It's not small beasts, you know,
Speaker 4: you know, almost like small ball bearings, you know, something
Speaker 4: that will kill a dear. So it was pretty horrific crime.
Speaker 10: So we're talking about some of the boys were shot,
Speaker 10: like you say, in the shoulder and the arm, but
Speaker 10: there was some there was some shotgun blast to the
Speaker 10: face of one or two of the boys, wasn't there.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, I mean they were. They were shot up
Speaker 4: pretty good.
Speaker 9: You know.
Speaker 4: There was you know, the standing and he got two
Speaker 4: guys with shotguns executing them. You know, those shotguns spread out,
Speaker 4: you know, and again double lot buck shot and at
Speaker 4: least one of those shotguns. You know, it does quite
Speaker 4: a number. So it's you know, pretty heinous rhyme, and
Speaker 4: you know, like Leroy Greasy, the deputy who was involved,
Speaker 4: the sheriff and the deputy he told us, you know,
Speaker 4: I just hope those autopsy photographs are nobody ever sees
Speaker 4: them and just give them nightmarriages and you never forget them.
Speaker 10: You know.
Speaker 4: Of course they were used at the trials, you know,
Speaker 4: to show the the jury just what these these guys did.
Speaker 4: But nobody ever needs to see those autopsy photos. And
Speaker 4: that was his That was from Deputy Greasy, who is
Speaker 4: part of the investigation and part of that law enforcement team.
Speaker 10: Well, let's get back to the main person in this story,
Speaker 10: and that's Sandra. She does not hear the gunshots, does
Speaker 10: she does? She does not know the fate of her
Speaker 10: friends whatsoever. And she's with the boss. Now we alluded
Speaker 10: to it. What is the boss supposed to do with
Speaker 10: Sandra and what's their ride like and what do they
Speaker 10: talk about?
Speaker 4: Well, he continues to tell her, you know, work police,
Speaker 4: we're going to go to an abandoned farmer where we
Speaker 4: think drugs are stored. Well, we know why she's being
Speaker 4: taken to the abandoned farm. Okay, she's gonna be sexually
Speaker 4: assaulted and she's gonna be finished off. Okay, Well, he's
Speaker 4: telling her that they have to stop. He has to
Speaker 4: meet up with you know, his partners at this abandoned
Speaker 4: farm where they think drugs are stored. They have some
Speaker 4: other police business to do, and so he starts heading
Speaker 4: to a pre predetermined spot where after they killed the boys,
Speaker 4: back to park. The other brothers are going to take
Speaker 4: Stuart's van and they're going to meet up with Actually,
Speaker 4: what they did was they took Stuart's van and they
Speaker 4: drove it into sous Fall, South Dakota, dropped it off
Speaker 4: and picked up a small car that was one of
Speaker 4: the perpetrator's cars, and then then proceeded to this abandoned
Speaker 4: farm and met up with the boss and Sandra out there.
Speaker 10: So they did have some kind of maybe it wasn't
Speaker 10: a great plan, but they thought they had some kind
Speaker 10: of plan to elude police and fool the police, didn't.
Speaker 4: They Yeah, well, you know, dysfunction as their plan is,
Speaker 4: they had a plan. There was a mission. They were
Speaker 4: on a mission obviously, and so they they all met up.
Speaker 10: Yeah go ahead, okay, go ahead, sir.
Speaker 4: Sorry, well I'm just saying, and they all meet up
Speaker 4: at the farm, at this abandoned farm, and this is
Speaker 4: where the sexual assault of Sandra takes place.
Speaker 10: Okay, who sexually assaults Sandra and tell us the tell
Speaker 10: us the conditions.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, here she is, she's sitting in the
Speaker 4: in the pickup truck that the boss, James Fryar U
Speaker 4: took her away in. And the three perpetrators have now
Speaker 4: met up there standing out in front of the pickup
Speaker 4: truck and it's it's Jr. It's James fryar that all
Speaker 4: of a sudden comes over to the pickup, gets in
Speaker 4: and rapes her on the on the seat of the pickup. Okay,
Speaker 4: the other two do not rape her. Okay, one of
Speaker 4: them rapes her. And so you know, we've always found
Speaker 4: that kind of strange. We wonder what that all is
Speaker 4: all about. You know, there's there's obviously there's going to
Speaker 4: be more details and things in the book, you know,
Speaker 4: and you know, so we're not giving everything away, but
Speaker 4: you know, the readers would have to, you know, like
Speaker 4: like me and a lot of people, you're trying to
Speaker 4: figure this whole thing out. And just like the detectives
Speaker 4: here the next day, we're going to talk about that
Speaker 4: in a minute. You know, we're trying to figure this
Speaker 4: all out, but one of them rapes her.
Speaker 10: What she up to that point, whether she is skeptical
Speaker 10: or not, she is believing that this guy is a
Speaker 10: police officer and and that she is going to arrive
Speaker 10: home safely and this will be all over with and
Speaker 10: her friends are safe and this nightmare will be over.
Speaker 10: So what's her reaction and what does she conclude after
Speaker 10: this sexual assault suddenly.
Speaker 4: Well, you know, she's demoralized. But in Sandry and talking
Speaker 4: to Sandra now again, you know, she kept the a
Speaker 4: lot of this stuff in for so many years. But
Speaker 4: to her, and that's what authorities did. You know, she
Speaker 4: didn't have a good experience with some of the authorities
Speaker 4: at that Native American boarding school she was shipped off
Speaker 4: to when she was younger. She thought these were adults
Speaker 4: that were abusing their power. She still wanted to believe
Speaker 4: they were a cop. And this is what she was
Speaker 4: going to have to live through to not be put
Speaker 4: locked up or put in a detention center. This guy
Speaker 4: is going to just get by with what he wants
Speaker 4: to do with me. You know, she's just demoralized, she's confused,
Speaker 4: she's degraded and in her mind, she's still trying to
Speaker 4: process this whole thing.
Speaker 10: Now, the boss's job, Allen's job, is to kill her.
Speaker 10: So what does he do?
Speaker 4: Okay, So hatchet Face in JR. Your listeners will find
Speaker 4: this interesting and we talked a little more about it
Speaker 4: in the book Jr. The rapist was actually locked up
Speaker 4: in the Sioux Falls County jail when he pulled this
Speaker 4: rape and murder. Jill had a checkout program that perpetrators
Speaker 4: based on whatever crime they were locked up for, and
Speaker 4: James Fryar was locked up for stolen goods and transporting
Speaker 4: stolen goods. He could check out or sign out of
Speaker 4: the jail, go work a job site, and then come
Speaker 4: back and check back into jail. Okay, So hatchet Face
Speaker 4: David Fryar. After the rape, he drives James Fryar back
Speaker 4: to the Sioux Falls jail so he can sign back
Speaker 4: in and lock up. But there was a many hours.
Speaker 4: James Fryar was a tow truck driver. That was his job,
Speaker 4: which gave him liberal hours. You know, he could sign
Speaker 4: out at night. Tow trucks operate, you know, twenty four
Speaker 4: hours a day. But there was a lag somebody at
Speaker 4: the jail was not checking. Why was there this big
Speaker 4: several hour lag in between when you punched out of
Speaker 4: your job as a tow truck driver and you don't
Speaker 4: return to the jail until you know, three o'clock in
Speaker 4: the morning. See what I'm saying, two o'clock in the morning,
Speaker 4: whatever time he checks back in. There was a lot
Speaker 4: of backlash in that in that community when when the
Speaker 4: community found out about this. So the two brothers take off.
Speaker 4: They leave Sandra with the boss, James Fryar, who is
Speaker 4: supposed to finish her off tape or excuse me, Alan
Speaker 4: Fryer is supposed to finish her off back at the
Speaker 4: abandoned farm, and the other two head to Sue falls
Speaker 4: hatch of face, drops James off, he goes into the jail,
Speaker 4: checks himself back in, and David goes to wherever he goes.
Speaker 4: So now we've gotten We've got the boss, Alan Fryar,
Speaker 4: and Sandra back at the abandoned farm.
Speaker 10: And what happens you talked you, you alluded to this
Speaker 10: that her survival instincts kick in, So why do you
Speaker 10: believe that he didn't kill her?
Speaker 4: Again, she continues to talk to him. She continues conversing
Speaker 4: with him. You know, are you gonna let me go?
Speaker 4: Like you said? You know, I don't want to get
Speaker 4: in any more trouble. You know. You know he has
Speaker 4: a low IQ too. You know, he scored pretty low
Speaker 4: on his intelligence scale Dan okay, and so I don't
Speaker 4: think this guy is functioning as high as he possibly should.
Speaker 4: She's humanized herself to him. He takes her up to
Speaker 4: the abandoned farm. He pulls out a wooden axe handle
Speaker 4: out of the back of his pickup, and he takes
Speaker 4: her up there, and he says that they're going to
Speaker 4: go inside see if there's any critters to kill inside
Speaker 4: that well, her instincts are saying, no, this isn't good.
Speaker 4: When they get up to the abandoned farm, she stepped back.
Speaker 4: She goes, no, I'm not going in there. It's too
Speaker 4: spooky and creepy. And then it's like he doesn't know
Speaker 4: how to respond. Okay. He looks at her and she
Speaker 4: starts back, and when he says, I'm not going in
Speaker 4: that abandoned house, and she starts walking towards a pickup. Well,
Speaker 4: at this point, you know, you're wondering, you know, why
Speaker 4: isn't he doing his job. Why isn't he finishing this
Speaker 4: girl up? Maybe somewhat she's humanized herself to him, been
Speaker 4: a little forceful. He's not functioning it with a real
Speaker 4: high IQ, you know, But he doesn't. He lets her
Speaker 4: go walk back and get in the pickup truck. He
Speaker 4: walks back and gets in. Then he just starts driving.
Speaker 4: And then he tells her where do you live? And
Speaker 4: I'm going to take you home and so lo and behold.
Speaker 4: He drives her to the small town of outside of
Speaker 4: Sioux Falls called te South Dakota, where she's living with
Speaker 4: her mom and brothers, and he drops her off very
Speaker 4: close to her house, lets her go.
Speaker 10: What does he tell her though?
Speaker 4: He tells her Yeah. He tells her that I'm still
Speaker 4: a cop. You don't tell anybody who we are. You know,
Speaker 4: we could get in trouble for what we did tonight,
Speaker 4: but we don't listen for cops. We'd only go to
Speaker 4: jail at prison for a little while. Then we'd come
Speaker 4: back and get you. And he says, by the way,
Speaker 4: I have a little black book that I keeps everybody's name.
Speaker 4: Give me your phone number, and I want to keep
Speaker 4: track of everybody that we've been dealing with and with
Speaker 4: his police matter. I need your phone number, and I'm
Speaker 4: gonna drop you off at home, and he goes, by
Speaker 4: the way, I'll give you a call sometime when I'm
Speaker 4: in the area. So did he get a weird obsession
Speaker 4: with this girl too? You know, you read the whole book,
Speaker 4: you start getting these different ideas. It's just, you know,
Speaker 4: so many so bizarre twists to this thing, Dan, you know,
Speaker 4: And so he just gets the phone number. Yeah.
Speaker 10: This lack of logic though, really again adds another twist
Speaker 10: to this story. Tell us what happens when she gets
Speaker 10: dropped off. What does she do?
Speaker 4: Well, she immediately goes in the house now her mom.
Speaker 4: It's now it's about four or after in the morning.
Speaker 4: She's she's confused. You know, we I was out there.
Speaker 4: We're kind of in trouble. I've been raped. She's confused,
Speaker 4: she doesn't know what she should do. She doesn't want
Speaker 4: to tell her mom right away, So she goes upstairs
Speaker 4: and wakes up one of her older brothers and starts
Speaker 4: spewing out this story to him, and he says, Sandra,
Speaker 4: they do not sound like real cops. You've got to
Speaker 4: you need to go to the police, and she says,
Speaker 4: but what if they are. I gave them my phone number.
Speaker 4: They know where we live, and he says, Sandra, I
Speaker 4: don't know, but they don't sound like real cops. You're
Speaker 4: going to have to just think about this and tomorrow
Speaker 4: morning we something's got to happen. This is just think
Speaker 4: about it. So she goes to her room to think
Speaker 4: about this. What does she want to do. She's still
Speaker 4: so confused, traumatized what's going on, and so I think
Speaker 4: she kind of slightly dozes off. She's kind of half
Speaker 4: in a stupor. By the time she realizes it's like
Speaker 4: eight thirty in the morning. She gets up. She goes
Speaker 4: and her mom has already left for work. So she
Speaker 4: gets on the phone and tries to call her her boyfriend, Roger,
Speaker 4: who's been hit with a tranquilizer gun. She thinks she
Speaker 4: is he home. No, she keeps calling and he's not home.
Speaker 4: Her mom says he must have spent the night at
Speaker 4: one of his friend's house. He's not here. So she's
Speaker 4: desperate to try to find, you know, find her boyfriend.
Speaker 4: She calls a friend, tells her friend to come over.
Speaker 4: The friend does come over, they don't know what to do.
Speaker 4: She wants to talk to Roger or one of the boys.
Speaker 4: So they go to the Interstate and she's going to
Speaker 4: hitch hike back out to Get You Manitude Park to
Speaker 4: see if the boys are out there. And then on
Speaker 4: the way through Sue Falls hitch hiking out to Get
Speaker 4: You Manitude, they stop at a payphone and call her boyfriend,
Speaker 4: Roger Essam's house one more time, and by this time
Speaker 4: the family has been informed that Roger is dead, and
Speaker 4: one of Roger's older brothers said, Sandra, stay where you are.
Speaker 4: I'm coming to get you right now, and he goes
Speaker 4: down to pick her up at the payphone and her
Speaker 4: and her friend and takes him downtown to the Soue
Speaker 4: Falls Police station the detective bureau.
Speaker 10: How were the bodies discovered so that by the time
Speaker 10: she called back to Roger's home that they had been informed.
Speaker 10: Tell us a little bit about that little story.
Speaker 4: There was a couple that were test driving a car
Speaker 4: that morning, a car that they were going to buy,
Speaker 4: maybe from a private party, but they were test driving
Speaker 4: a car and they just happened to want to try
Speaker 4: to drive through Get You Manitude because it was pretty
Speaker 4: They thought they'd try to look at the fall colors. Now,
Speaker 4: remember this was November seventeenth that these murders took place.
Speaker 4: They were going to drive to the park and they
Speaker 4: found they saw the dead bodies laying a long off,
Speaker 4: just off the road. So of course they raced back
Speaker 4: and called the authorities right away. That's how the bodies
Speaker 4: were discovered. The boys still had money and identification right
Speaker 4: on them, so it didn't take the cops very long
Speaker 4: to get a hold of the families.
Speaker 10: Now, like you say, by the time she called, Sandra
Speaker 10: calls Rogers family, they've been notified and that Rogers is killed.
Speaker 10: So what happens in terms of the police and how
Speaker 10: do they proceed with the investigation and the questioning of Sandra.
Speaker 4: Well, so Roger's brother takes this girl down to the
Speaker 4: police department and takes her to a detective, and right
Speaker 4: away the detective says, young later, there's been a homicide.
Speaker 10: Do you know what that is?
Speaker 4: She didn't know what homicide meant. She didn't want to
Speaker 4: act stupid. She never heard the word homicide. She thought
Speaker 4: it had something to do with them having marijuana. She
Speaker 4: thought it was a legal term. She said yes, and
Speaker 4: he said come with me. He read her her rights,
Speaker 4: he fingerprinted her, and right away she was suspect. Okay,
Speaker 4: they didn't believe her. Now let's put ourselves dan in
Speaker 4: the shoes of the detectives. And this is what they're thinking, was,
Speaker 4: why are you the only one of five teenagers to live,
Speaker 4: young lady? And what murderer takes you and drops you
Speaker 4: off by your house when he's done murdering everybody? You
Speaker 4: know who this is, you were either in on it
Speaker 4: or you know who did it with it. A jealous
Speaker 4: ex boyfriend who came out there was mad at you know,
Speaker 4: for those of you being with those boys who did this.
Speaker 4: She's desperately trying to tell them this story, and it's
Speaker 4: Sue falls South Dakota in the early seventies, a sheltered environment,
Speaker 4: and they're not believing this. They're going, come on, this
Speaker 4: is a stranger murder like this is too bizarre, This
Speaker 4: doesn't happen like this. Three perpetrators that don't know anybody
Speaker 4: just walks in and does all this. So you can
Speaker 4: understand from the detective standpoint why they might not have
Speaker 4: believed her at first.
Speaker 10: What is her demeanor though? In when she's questioned you know,
Speaker 10: she's thirteen years old. So some people would be just
Speaker 10: a be crying and that's about all they could they
Speaker 10: could do for themselves. So what was her demeanor.
Speaker 4: She's basically still she's basically still in shock. She writes
Speaker 4: a twelve page She's been up almost all night. She's
Speaker 4: been you know, she's not thinking real clear. She's been
Speaker 4: up all night. She's been sexually assaulted. She'd been confused,
Speaker 4: she's been frightened, she's scared. You know, she her mind
Speaker 4: is not thinking real clear, although she remembers a lot
Speaker 4: of details. She wrote a twelve page handwritten witness statement
Speaker 4: starting from when the boys picked her up to go
Speaker 4: out to getchee. We have that part of our investigation.
Speaker 4: We have a photocopy of that, very detailed and many
Speaker 4: of it, much of it go right through what I'm
Speaker 4: telling you right now for your listeners and you tonight.
Speaker 4: And in her mind, she wants to believe that the
Speaker 4: boys are not dead. You know, she knows her shot.
Speaker 4: There's been all this trauma. You know, she saw, she
Speaker 4: witnesses shooting. You know, she was frighted, she was traumatized,
Speaker 4: but wanted to still believe that they were alive. They
Speaker 4: were hit with a tranquilizer gun. And then when her
Speaker 4: mother's lolo shows up at the police department, Sheriff Craig Vincent,
Speaker 4: who becomes a main player in this thing. Now, remember
Speaker 4: he's the Sheriff of Lyon County and Deputy Leroy Greasy
Speaker 4: were the two jurisdiction law enforcement agents for gets you
Speaker 4: manit to. Sheriff Vincent shows up down there when she
Speaker 4: brings her mom in, and Sheriff Vincent tells the mom
Speaker 4: she's written a detailed thing. We hope we can find
Speaker 4: these murderers of those boys. And then Sanders said, murderers murder?
Speaker 4: Is that what homicide means? And then she completely breaks down.
Speaker 4: Now she realizes the magnitude of what has happened.
Speaker 10: And Vincent, being very receptive, realizes that the demeanor that
Speaker 10: she expressed when she did that twelve page report very detailed,
Speaker 10: was as a result of not knowing what homicide meant.
Speaker 10: That's right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: Craig Vincent was who's just recently passed away, by the way, Dan,
Speaker 4: he was the old time gut instinct lawman. He was
Speaker 4: one of the few people at that time that believed
Speaker 4: this girl when a lot of the detectives from the
Speaker 4: stux Falls Police Department, where you know, they'd get off
Speaker 4: to the side and they say, come on, this is
Speaker 4: this is not jiving. This girl knows more than she's
Speaker 4: telling you. Craig Vincent developed a relationship and she gave
Speaker 4: a lot of respect for Sheriff Craig Vincent. He believed her.
Speaker 4: He kept reassuring her, he gave her more confidence. And
Speaker 4: now this you know, and of course we get into
Speaker 4: more of that relationship in the book. But this relationship
Speaker 4: between Vincent and Sandracewsky starts to flourish in the course
Speaker 4: of this investigation, and it's a you know, it's a
Speaker 4: very un usual way that they use this girl to
Speaker 4: try to apprehend these killers.
Speaker 10: Now she he believes in her so much that they
Speaker 10: gave her they give her a rape kit exam and
Speaker 10: also that they rely on her for a sketch from
Speaker 10: the sketch artist. And they did also put her in
Speaker 10: a protective custody or not protective crustoms. But they were
Speaker 10: trying to keep her safe, wasn't weren't they?
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, they she was put in a safe house
Speaker 4: for her family. We have three perpetrators. She gives the
Speaker 4: composite sketches of what these guys look like. And I
Speaker 4: believe you've you've read the book, right, Dan, So you
Speaker 4: see how accurate that thirteen year old girl, you know,
Speaker 4: you know, describe those people for the sketch artists. Okay,
Speaker 4: we've got the composite sketches right below their actual mugshots,
Speaker 4: and it's pretty pretty good, pretty good likeness of those people.
Speaker 4: So they put her in a safe house for their family.
Speaker 4: There's a man hunt going off with these guys, but
Speaker 4: yet there's still a faction of the detectives going there's
Speaker 4: more to this and meets the eye. This girl's not
Speaker 4: telling the truth. But Vincent believes in this girl.
Speaker 10: Vincent believes in her so much that they also are
Speaker 10: going to look for the abandoned house that she describes
Speaker 10: that they were in, and also that she has seems
Speaker 10: to be peculiar that she has so many details that
Speaker 10: she can remember about the vehicle, like even like a
Speaker 10: registration sticker on the and the color and lots of
Speaker 10: details that she did. So they also went on journeys
Speaker 10: to try to see if she could recollect or remember
Speaker 10: where this abandoned house might be.
Speaker 4: Yeah, now, you know, for your listeners are done, you
Speaker 4: gotta remember, here's a thirteen year old girl who was
Speaker 4: taken by the boss and driven in the dark, okay,
Speaker 4: and driven several miles away from Get you Manitu okay,
Speaker 4: And so she doesn't recognize the road or exactly what
Speaker 4: directions they were. They turned this way, they turned that way.
Speaker 4: They were on gravel roads, and they were on tar roads. Okay.
Speaker 4: So sure if Craig Vincent decides to get this girl
Speaker 4: and a detective in the vehicle each morning and start
Speaker 4: driving a grid, a circular grid around Sioux Falls, getting
Speaker 4: wider and wider, going past every farmhouse they can think of.
Speaker 4: Tell Sandra, maybe we'll see something that she would recognize
Speaker 4: by that abandoned farm.
Speaker 10: And the thing is that she's and she's and they're
Speaker 10: driving one day. She's also taken a polygraph test and passed. Yeah,
Speaker 10: so he's even more confident this Vincent. Now, as they're
Speaker 10: driving one time, there was another detail whether it was
Speaker 10: a red gas tank that she said was at this farmhouse.
Speaker 10: So tell us what happens one day when Vincent and
Speaker 10: her are driving and what do they discuss?
Speaker 4: Well, do you want me to tell you want me
Speaker 4: to be the story spoiler there Dan, which we make
Speaker 4: him by the butcher.
Speaker 10: They'll still buy the book, I'll tell you.
Speaker 4: He says, they'll still buy the buck. Okay, Well, here's
Speaker 4: what happens. They're also looking for a farm that's not
Speaker 4: a band and then has a red gas tank. Okay,
Speaker 4: we didn't we didn't get to this part when when
Speaker 4: Alan Fryar first left to get you manitude, when the
Speaker 4: when the boys were left back there to be executed,
Speaker 4: he into a farm where he had some keys, and
Speaker 4: there was a big red gas tank sitting next to
Speaker 4: a barn, and he gassed up his pickup truck with
Speaker 4: that key, the key to the paddlelock that he had,
Speaker 4: and he and he gassed at vehicleub then he took
Speaker 4: off and left again and drove her to the abandoned farm. Well,
Speaker 4: it turns out that Alan Fryer was a hired hand
Speaker 4: on that farm, so he did have access and keys
Speaker 4: to that gas tank. So they were not only looking
Speaker 4: for the abandoned farm, they were looking for the operational
Speaker 4: farm that had the big red gas tank setting next
Speaker 4: to the barn. But they're driving day after day, we
Speaker 4: goes into weeks. They're just driving and driving and getting frustrated,
Speaker 4: and Sheriff Vincent is trying to keep this girl spirits
Speaker 4: up see anything, and then lo and behold. One day
Speaker 4: they're driving down the road and coming at them as
Speaker 4: a pickup truck and Sandra starts screaming, there he is,
Speaker 4: there's a boss right there, And it was Alan Fryer,
Speaker 4: the boss coming down the road. He had just pulled
Speaker 4: out when they when they drove after they uh the
Speaker 4: detective that was riding Sheriff Vincent dropped Sandra off, and
Speaker 4: the ditch with him turned around and went after Alan Fryer.
Speaker 4: When they got him handcuffed. He had just come out
Speaker 4: of the farm where the big red gas tank was.
Speaker 4: So in a strange twist, this young girl was also
Speaker 4: involved in apprehending one of the murderers. There's a lot
Speaker 4: of other twists too, they go with it two.
Speaker 10: Absolutely, we won't get into all the twist because but
Speaker 10: we will go into just one thing to I guess
Speaker 10: maybe to leave everybody hanging on a cliff, which would
Speaker 10: be that when they put these gentlemen in prison, that's
Speaker 10: not the end of the story. So tell us what
Speaker 10: happens in prison with these criminals.
Speaker 4: Well, you know David Fryar. Before they went to trial,
Speaker 4: the youngest one pleaded guilty. I believe his attorney talked
Speaker 4: him into thinking before he'd have to be sentenced. But
Speaker 4: I think he thought that by pleading guilty and not
Speaker 4: going to trial, he might get a better sentence. Okay,
Speaker 4: Well it turned out he got life without the possibility
Speaker 4: pro And then he turned around, tried to renege and
Speaker 4: pull back his guilty plea, and the judge said, no,
Speaker 4: We're not playing this game. So he shipped off to prison.
Speaker 4: And now for a year and a half the murder
Speaker 4: trials are going on and this young girl is used
Speaker 4: as a prime witness in the course of this. Jr.
Speaker 4: The rapist and Alan the Boss Friar are locked up
Speaker 4: in the Lion County Jail in Rock Rapids, Iowa. It's
Speaker 4: it's the old time jail. This is like something out
Speaker 4: of Mayberry. The Sheriff Vincent's wife cooked the meals. Uh
Speaker 4: you know, it was the old time jail for you know,
Speaker 4: Barney five is working there and they had you know,
Speaker 4: Sheriff Vincent's kids would play out in the front yard
Speaker 4: and Alan Fryar would yell out to him, and they'd
Speaker 4: have a dog and he would bark like a dog
Speaker 4: and try to yell the and the you know, the
Speaker 4: parents were telling the kids to stay away, don't talk
Speaker 4: to him, and uh. The sheriff and his family lived
Speaker 4: on one side of the wall, the block wall, and
Speaker 4: on the other side with the jail cells and the office.
Speaker 4: So it's just kind of like the old time Maybury
Speaker 4: County Jail.
Speaker 10: Now at the So we we will leave the listener
Speaker 10: for something for them to look into in terms of
Speaker 10: purchasing this book and getting the rest of the story,
Speaker 10: because there's so much material in terms of this about
Speaker 10: half the story. Because when you mentioned that Sandra Takes
Speaker 10: is a very important person in this trial, she's the
Speaker 10: star witness. Obviously, this woman that has endured so much,
Speaker 10: that was such an innocent young girl, is now have
Speaker 10: to somehow mature rapidly to be able to handle this
Speaker 10: vicious basically cross examination at court because it's just not
Speaker 10: as easy as making getting a conviction with the obvious
Speaker 10: people being guilty. And the other part of the most
Speaker 10: important part of your book is the recovery if there
Speaker 10: is anything or or how she tries to recover anyway
Speaker 10: her I guess ongoing recovery from this incredible crime, and
Speaker 10: also the she was considered the Getchy girl. And unbelievably,
Speaker 10: this is one of the most I guess profound things
Speaker 10: and more unbelievable things, is the criticism that she got
Speaker 10: and the isolation that she encountered because of the stigma
Speaker 10: of being the Getchy girl, and people their children weren't
Speaker 10: allowed to hang around with her despite the trial and
Speaker 10: everything else. So I thought that was an amazing story
Speaker 10: of survival and overcoming these incredible odds and events and discrimination.
Speaker 10: So I could say there's at least a half the
Speaker 10: story not to be told here in this interview.
Speaker 4: Well exactly, Dan, And also for the interest of the book,
Speaker 4: there is a jail break too. Before these guys are
Speaker 4: found guilty, these guys break out. There's a lot more
Speaker 4: to this story that we haven't talked about. And then
Speaker 4: the Getchy Girl. There's where the title of the book
Speaker 4: comes about. As you said, Dan, And when Sandra got
Speaker 4: done testifying and finally put these guys away for life,
Speaker 4: she thought people would appreciate what she did for justice
Speaker 4: and for those boys. She you know, she didn't want
Speaker 4: a medal or anything, but She thought people would appreciate
Speaker 4: what she did. She gave up school for a year
Speaker 4: and a half, you know, gone all the time to
Speaker 4: these trials and finally wins the victory of getting these
Speaker 4: guys locked up. And you know how the defense attorneys
Speaker 4: can be, they tried to discredit this girl, trip her up.
Speaker 10: You know, when she was.
Speaker 4: Brought into the into the courtrooms, she was it was
Speaker 4: a media mob. Now you know you're a former, you're
Speaker 4: a journalist. I will tell you that Sandra had a
Speaker 4: very good experience with a couple of journalists and wanted
Speaker 4: particularly and it brought her to the ability to open
Speaker 4: up a little bit on this story after many years.
Speaker 4: But at that time there was also a mob mentality.
Speaker 4: These journalists wanted to mob this girl. You know, she
Speaker 4: had to be snuck into the side door of the courthouse.
Speaker 4: They wanted to get a statement, They want to get
Speaker 4: pictures of her. She was a big celebrity to be
Speaker 4: seen by all the you know, the the gawkers and
Speaker 4: the court spectators, and so she had to go through
Speaker 4: all that as a young girl. And then when it
Speaker 4: was all done, she just thought people would appreciate it.
Speaker 4: But she turned out to be the gitchy girl. That
Speaker 4: was her nickname. And I remember when this happened to
Speaker 4: this girl, people shunned her. It was like she had
Speaker 4: done something wrong. And you know, Dan, it was a
Speaker 4: different day and age back then. Oprah wasn't on TV.
Speaker 4: It was like, you were raped and you were a
Speaker 4: sexual assaulted. What did you do wrong? What were you wearing?
Speaker 10: Well?
Speaker 4: Why did you entice the guy? You know, why were
Speaker 4: you even with those boys? It was like she did
Speaker 4: something wrong. She was the tainted girl for being with
Speaker 4: the boys. When they got murdered, people whispered about her.
Speaker 4: You know, she was alienated at school. She went to
Speaker 4: school dances and nobody would talk to her dance with her.
Speaker 4: She said, I felt like I was one hundred years
Speaker 4: older than everybody else. When those girls were able to
Speaker 4: talk about going to the dance and first dates and kisses,
Speaker 4: I was the gitchy girl. I didn't fit anymore. People
Speaker 4: didn't want to be around me. She dropped out of school,
Speaker 4: her life started spiraling out of control. It's you know,
Speaker 4: you know, she physically survived that night. She was a
Speaker 4: survivor that night physically, but the emotional and spiritual survivor
Speaker 4: survival for that girl took many different paths that we
Speaker 4: talk about and how her life went. And you know, Dan,
Speaker 4: I say, she'll forever be the Getchy Girl. Even to
Speaker 4: this day she's doing. This book has been immensely good
Speaker 4: for this girl. We've gone to book signings where hundreds
Speaker 4: of people have turned out. It's been amazing this book.
Speaker 4: The hugs that she's getting to tears, She's finally opened up.
Speaker 4: The girl physically looks better than when we first started
Speaker 4: interviewing him for this book. She's starting to her emotions
Speaker 4: are starting to surface. She's finally getting to release through
Speaker 4: Getchy Girl and through these books signings, and through going
Speaker 4: and being with me when we do discussions and talks
Speaker 4: and go places and talk to people. She's really starting
Speaker 4: to open up. She's really starting to heal now through
Speaker 4: this book.
Speaker 10: Part of the Too, part of the Ceiling Too, and
Speaker 10: I won't give any more away of this incredible book,
Speaker 10: but she finds it in her heart and her mind
Speaker 10: to go visit the Boss.
Speaker 4: She does. She has a she has a com forty
Speaker 4: years later, she has a set down with UH and
Speaker 4: we revealed that in the book. We talk about that
Speaker 4: confrontation through a victim's advocate. She goes to Fort Madison
Speaker 4: Prison and Alan, the boss friar who was supposed to
Speaker 4: kill her that night, let her go, agrees to meet
Speaker 4: with her and she confronts him on some issues she
Speaker 4: wanted to And you know, up to that meeting, two
Speaker 4: weeks before that, this girl was emotionally and physically sick.
Speaker 4: She almost didn't make it. She was throwing up, she
Speaker 4: had insomnia. Just the courage it took to her to
Speaker 4: go into that maximum security prison and face this guy
Speaker 4: after that many years, and she finally gets to question Dan,
Speaker 4: she gets to question answered why. He tells her why
Speaker 4: he didn't kill her that night. But we're not going
Speaker 4: to tell him that.
Speaker 9: Talk about the.
Speaker 4: Courage of this courage of this young girl through all
Speaker 4: the things she lived through. And here's something else I'll
Speaker 4: tell you about Sandra Cheski, the gidchy girl. To this day, Dan,
Speaker 4: she is still one of the most optimistic people. If
Speaker 4: she would meet you, she would only look at your
Speaker 4: good points, Dan. She only wants to try to see
Speaker 4: the best in people. Here's a girl that could be
Speaker 4: bitter and hateful for what her life has been like
Speaker 4: and how people treated her and what she lived through.
Speaker 4: But she she's you know, she she's got so much
Speaker 4: good in her. I mean, she's an amazing person and
Speaker 4: I'm just so proud of her, and you know, proud
Speaker 4: that she opened up and allowed my wife and I
Speaker 4: to do this story. We thought this book would sell
Speaker 4: around the soup falls ere. We had no idea the
Speaker 4: number one national bestseller. We had no idea of the
Speaker 4: call we're getting, you know, to go speak of the
Speaker 4: book signings. I mean, it's just been incredible. It's just
Speaker 4: the book has gone better than we ever thought it would.
Speaker 4: But I you know, I guess now that people are
Speaker 4: telling us it's got all the right elements.
Speaker 10: So just tell us a little bit about this book
Speaker 10: was not was co authored by your wife, Sandy, So
Speaker 10: tell us about her role with this book. And and
Speaker 10: and really when did you I know that you are
Speaker 10: from this area, but is your wife also? And again,
Speaker 10: tell us a little bit more about your personal stake
Speaker 10: in this story.
Speaker 4: Well, know, Dan, you've got listeners that are writers, and
Speaker 4: they're avid readers. Very difficult and very very difficult to
Speaker 4: land a publishing contract, even when you write a great
Speaker 4: book like Issue Girl. You know, there's great writers that
Speaker 4: you know, they try, and I happened a five years ago,
Speaker 4: write memoirs of my life. I had a very harsh
Speaker 4: child growing up. I kept it all quiet. It just
Speaker 4: kind of came out as a fluke. I'm a high
Speaker 4: school teacher in English, and I wrote these memoirs and
Speaker 4: about overcoming a very impoverished neighborhood, federal housing units, a
Speaker 4: lot of domestic violence, a lot of bullying, having a
Speaker 4: lot and do a lot of fist fighting. You know.
Speaker 4: You know, between me and three of my buddies when
Speaker 4: I was a young man, we accumulated fifty two arrests
Speaker 4: felony charges, two shot to stay, one paralyze. I made
Speaker 4: the road the only one that didn't go to prison
Speaker 4: and jail out of that long term jail out of
Speaker 4: that group of friends of mine, my life got turned around.
Speaker 4: I became this high school teacher, I sidestepped felony charged.
Speaker 4: My life changed immensely when those books land and those
Speaker 4: books landed rare publishing contract. So I had a connection
Speaker 4: with a publishing company out of Texas, Electal Publishing, and
Speaker 4: Sandra I ran into her periodically. I gave her my
Speaker 4: memoirs to read. Her brother said that was kind of
Speaker 4: a turning point for her. She thought maybe she could
Speaker 4: help other people if she shared her story. So we
Speaker 4: knew this book was going to be even though it
Speaker 4: could have been a thousand page book. Now for your
Speaker 4: for your listeners, it's not a very long book. We
Speaker 4: wanted it not to be a real expensive book or
Speaker 4: people to have to sit and read for three weeks.
Speaker 4: So I got my wife on board, who's also teaching
Speaker 4: reading and writing here in the Susiti school district. She
Speaker 4: did lengthy interviews with Sandra Chesky emails, She interviewed law
Speaker 4: enforcement people, she crossed, referenced a lot of things on
Speaker 4: the internet. You know those murderers, the Friar Brothers. They
Speaker 4: would say one thing one time, and then another thing
Speaker 4: another time, and then the court records would say another thing.
Speaker 4: So we had to in order to get it as
Speaker 4: acridate as possible. And then while Sand my wife, Now
Speaker 4: that's the confusing part. Sandra Cheskey is the getchy girl,
Speaker 4: my wife Sandy, they both had the same name. My wife,
Speaker 4: the author goes by Sandy. Sandra is a gitchy girl.
Speaker 4: So while my wife Sandy was doing interviews and cross
Speaker 4: referencing things, I was going to the clerk, of course,
Speaker 4: digging through boxes of investigative records, autopsy reports, doing all
Speaker 4: that kind of stuff. Then we'd bring everything together, lay
Speaker 4: it out. What do we want to keep, what do
Speaker 4: we want to throw out, What is going to appeal
Speaker 4: to the male reader the female reader? Do we want
Speaker 4: it real long? Okay, So we had you know, that's
Speaker 4: kind of how it is, and that's how it went,
Speaker 4: and then of course we worked with Sandra Cheski. Now
Speaker 4: when it was all said and done, you know, on Amazon,
Speaker 4: it's got lots and lots of reviews. It's you know, uh,
Speaker 4: getting very good ratings. And we've had a few law
Speaker 4: enforcement uh people that were actually part of the investigation
Speaker 4: or involved in this thing have actually got on Amazon
Speaker 4: and given reviews and said, this book is very accurate.
Speaker 4: I know for a fact, I was involved in the investigation.
Speaker 4: I know the actual case file. So we did a
Speaker 4: pretty good job of the accuracy. So we've got we've
Speaker 4: got a multi level story. It reads with a little
Speaker 4: bit of flavor of a true crime, which it is.
Speaker 4: We give some investigative stuff, but it's got a deep
Speaker 4: human interest side too, and so it's it's not lots
Speaker 4: of you know, real lengthy kill. On one side, it's
Speaker 4: a pretty balanced book. I think we try to do
Speaker 4: a pretty good job of balancing the book out for
Speaker 4: a variety of readers. I think that's why it's been
Speaker 4: pretty popular.
Speaker 10: Well, I think really you just capture a unique story. Again,
Speaker 10: that's what people were looking for, a different story, and
Speaker 10: this one has those unique elements to it. And mostly
Speaker 10: in that how this woman starts at thirteen and how
Speaker 10: she can evolve, because really she should have been damaged
Speaker 10: beyond repair from this age and what she had seen,
Speaker 10: what she experienced, because like I say, when she thinks
Speaker 10: that her friends aren't killed or killed when she's arrested,
Speaker 10: she's detained, she's used to find these inmates, they escape,
Speaker 10: her family has to be put in isolation. It just
Speaker 10: seems to never end for this woman. But like you say,
Speaker 10: incredible optimism. Once she confronts these people at court and
Speaker 10: at trial, then goes to see them see him in prison.
Speaker 10: This woman does everything in her I mean that I've
Speaker 10: ever heard of in my life to be able to
Speaker 10: heal herself. And unlike many other books where you say, well,
Speaker 10: no one really recovers if there ever is a tale
Speaker 10: of recovery. It's this woman just because she feels it's
Speaker 10: her inherent right to be able to recover from this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, what a strong person, you know. And Dan, she
Speaker 4: never got any counseling, not back then, not ever. You know,
Speaker 4: it was back in the day, you know, back in
Speaker 4: the early seventies. You know, it was just kind of like,
Speaker 4: you don't talk about those things. You don't bring up rape,
Speaker 4: you don't bring up domestic violence incests. Oprah wasn't on TV.
Speaker 4: Those were just taboo things that were kept quiet. And
Speaker 4: even her family, her brothers, who loved her desperately wanted
Speaker 4: to help this girl, but they didn't. It was like,
Speaker 4: you don't talk about it, don't talk about that night
Speaker 4: that night, just don't open those old wounds, and it'll
Speaker 4: just go away on it own. Well, it stayed in.
Speaker 4: This girl infested, and she had to find all these ways,
Speaker 4: like you said, her inherited right to try to survive
Speaker 4: this thing. So she's constantly working on her emotional and
Speaker 4: spiritual survival with all these different methods. And that's kind
Speaker 4: of an interesting part too. How this girl comes around
Speaker 4: And Sandra said herself that she hopes that her story
Speaker 4: will be able to give inspiration to people who have
Speaker 4: gone through hard times and know that they can survive
Speaker 4: and they can find ways and not to give up,
Speaker 4: you know, And that was one of the things. And
Speaker 4: another reason why she opened up this late and told
Speaker 4: this story is that she now has grandchildren who are
Speaker 4: about the age Dan that she was when this Getchy
Speaker 4: situation took place. They're now old enough to become interested
Speaker 4: in this case. And there's lots of untruth out there
Speaker 4: on the internet about this murder. You know, there was
Speaker 4: a lot of controversy, a lot of bad talking about Sandra,
Speaker 4: and there still is. This girl was just bullied on
Speaker 4: social media like two weeks ago for telling this story. Wow,
Speaker 4: I told Sandra, when this thing comes out, Sandra, you're
Speaker 4: gonna you're gonna you're gonna have to go back to
Speaker 4: You're tough, You're a survivor. You know how it's gonna be.
Speaker 4: There's gonna be a lot of people that are gonna
Speaker 4: love the story. But there's always those people like Dan,
Speaker 4: You're you know, blog talk radio is the best show around,
Speaker 4: and there'll always be somebody that's gonna knock it. There's
Speaker 4: always those people that it's about who it's about them.
Speaker 4: It's not really about Sandra, the godge girl. It's about them.
Speaker 4: And I you know, I've had to talk to Sandra
Speaker 4: about this. You know, she's still you know, emotionally fragile.
Speaker 4: And then you'll get these people that will bully her
Speaker 4: on social media. You know, there was a particular relative
Speaker 4: of one of the boys that were murdered that didn't
Speaker 4: want this story told, you know, just don't bring it up.
Speaker 4: And so this person's been you know, mean to this girl,
Speaker 4: and so that's what I'm saying, She'll forever be the
Speaker 4: gidgy girl.
Speaker 10: Yeah, incredible. One last thing before I just talk to
Speaker 10: you about how people might be able to contact you,
Speaker 10: is that a very interesting part of the story is
Speaker 10: that a crucial person in this after the murders is
Speaker 10: the would be boyfriend Roger or the short lived boyfriend Roger.
Speaker 10: His brother and so was a big help in her recover.
Speaker 4: I would say too, yes he was. But then again
Speaker 4: that family grew up and moved off and got married,
Speaker 4: and you know, she lost her support group there. You know,
Speaker 4: this girl. The book is very interesting how this girl's
Speaker 4: life had been a roller coaster, you know, until she
Speaker 4: does finally find stability and how she finds it, and
Speaker 4: you know, and again she'll still gets into a funk Dan,
Speaker 4: she'll uh, you know, there'll be a certain song that
Speaker 4: will come on from that era. You know, this girl
Speaker 4: had classic survivor's guilt. She had post traumatic stress. You know,
Speaker 4: it's just still you know, those terms weren't coined until
Speaker 4: a lot of those guys came back from Vietnam and
Speaker 4: then they started realizing the people that have gone through
Speaker 4: a traumatic situation, you know, they've they've got these symptoms.
Speaker 4: This girl had classic survivor's guilt. You know she uh,
Speaker 4: you know, she didn't think that she should be alive
Speaker 4: when the boys were gone. You know, it's a classic
Speaker 4: survivor's guilt. It's just an amazingly strong girl.
Speaker 10: Yeah. Well, I want to thank you Phil for coming
Speaker 10: on and talking about the get You Girl, the survivors
Speaker 10: inside story of the mass murders that shocked the Heartland.
Speaker 10: For those that might want to contact you. Do you
Speaker 10: do Facebook? Do you have a website?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got I've got an author's Facebook site, Phil
Speaker 4: Hammon or Phil Hammon Author at gmail dot com. You know,
Speaker 4: they can they can private message, you know on Facebook.
Speaker 4: I try to answer everybody, and so, yeah, I try
Speaker 4: to get back to everybody that if they've got a
Speaker 4: private message, it's at Phil Hammond author website, and so
Speaker 4: either the Facebook, there's a Facebook site, you know, if
Speaker 4: they type in Getchy Girl, it'll pop up. There'll be
Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff that'll pop up. If they top
Speaker 4: pop my name in there, Phil Hammond, h it'll pop up,
Speaker 4: and yeah, they can get a hold of me. And
Speaker 4: I'm always interested in, you know, doing other things for
Speaker 4: people or answering people's questions. I try to, you know,
Speaker 4: spend a certain part of the day just answering you know,
Speaker 4: private messages and emails and things like that.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 10: So well, that's great, Bill, Thank you very much for
Speaker 10: coming on and talking about this book, The Getschy Girl.
Speaker 10: It's fascinating story and a very unique story of again
Speaker 10: incredible recovery and a tale that the twists and turns
Speaker 10: and really keeps you on the edge of your seat
Speaker 10: and incredible books. So thank you very much for.
Speaker 4: Say, yeah, one last thing we do give for book
Speaker 4: sales and ebook sales, we do give a percentage of
Speaker 4: that to that girl who lived through that night, and
Speaker 4: we give a percentage of the counsel and sexual assault,
Speaker 4: domestic violence, so it's a you know, we do try
Speaker 4: to take care of some people too with the book sales,
Speaker 4: so just.
Speaker 10: So they know that, well, that's a fantastic addition to
Speaker 10: just a great book too as well a great cause.
Speaker 10: Thank you very much, and again, thank you very much, Phil.
Speaker 4: You have a great v Dan, thanks for having me
Speaker 4: having me on.
Speaker 10: Thank you, good night, good night,