Speaker 1: This is a podcast from Minute Media.
Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Shirley You Can't
Be Serious podcast. We have talked about Batman eighty nine.
We have talked about The Dark Night. We have talked
about some of the other stories. But my question is
where is the Batman.
Speaker 3: I can't wait to see that movie in theaters. It's
coming out very soon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, teaser now. We will be coming to you
next week. Barring the end of civilization by Bain and
his Army Legion, we will be here telling you about
the Batman.
Speaker 3: I can't wait. It's gonna be amazing. Okay, d you
look fine.
Speaker 2: I didn't ask. That was pretty good for you. I
was like, okay, good job.
Speaker 3: We are not home watching our tights. We are talking
about Batman eighty nine and The Dark Night. We're gonna
finish up today with part three and then have our
supplemental some point after this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's jump in now.
Speaker 3: I want to kick off a little bit, if you
don't mind, with a lot of interesting things happening behind
the scenes here.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm at your feet, ready to listen.
Speaker 3: Okay, one of the cool things about Batman eighty nine.
Let's just start with Batman eighty nine. Okay, when the
trailer for Batman eighty nine hit theaters.
Speaker 2: I have given a name to my pain.
Speaker 4: What are you?
Speaker 2: I'm Batman.
Speaker 3: It's one of the few trailers where people would pay
good money to sit in a crappy movie.
Speaker 2: I didn't have reclining seats back then, and.
Speaker 3: They would sit and watch the trailer for Batman, get
totally jazzed, and they'd be like, that's it, I'm out
of here.
Speaker 2: I don't have time for crap after this. There's something
about seeing that in the theater, right, and you get
your best previews in the theater.
Speaker 3: You're exactly right. I'm a huge believer in experience on
the big screen, and there was something amazing about seeing
that logo splashed across the screen.
Speaker 2: And Jack Nicholson's painted face at the very end, coming
out of the darkness, and the way till they get
a load of me.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that very beginning shot of the introduction
of Jack Nicholson's Joker, when he says Jack is dead
my friend yea, but you can call me Joker. It's chilling.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I can remember seeing Batman eighty nine in
the theater in California, in the same theater that what
seven years earlier, I had snuck into and watched National Lampoon, Vacation,
Risky Business, and Trading Places. I had gone back to
California years later, stayed with my aunt, stayed with my cousins.
That summer, we went and watched UHF and Batman.
Speaker 3: We're going to talk about a bit. The summer of
eighty nine is one of the great movie summers of
all time. You had Batman, you had Leath the Weapon two,
James Bond and Indiana Jones. You had the return of
the Ghostbusters, you had a Roadhouse, you had Honeye Shrunk
the Kids just week after week, great movie, fun movie
after fun movie. So that was an amazing summer. So
one of the interesting things about the batsuit that Michael
Keaton had to.
Speaker 2: Wear yep, that fit.
Speaker 3: He couldn't hear and he couldn't hear Jack.
Speaker 2: Okay, And when I say Jack, he couldn't hear Jack
Nichols right. He also couldn't turn his head right. That's
been a problem with the batsuit for a long time.
The cowl just you can't turn your head or you're
twisting that cap Pall where that happened, even with Adam West,
even when it was just you know, like a cloth cowls.
It's always been a problem, I think until The Dark
Knight Rises. I think with The Dark Knight Rises, they
did some sort of disconnect with a mask and the
neck piece so that he could finally move his head around.
Speaker 3: They actually talk about it, and Christian Bale's character Bruce
Wayne says, hey, can you make the neck move? And
he's like, you want to be able to turn your neck?
And he's like, well it'd sure be a lot easier
back in the car out of the driveway, right, Yeah,
that's right. They address that in the movie. Yeah again,
Christopher Nolan plausibility, Okay, love it. So Michael Keaton couldn't hear,
couldn't turn his head, and so if you watch the movie,
he's real stiff. Every time he looks up at the helicopter,
he does what they call the heroes lean, right.
Speaker 2: He turns with his shoulders hold back in the crane up.
Speaker 3: Michael Keaton also came up with the low, gravelly voice
that Batman speaks.
Speaker 2: In, and Christian Bale obviously intensified. Right, I mean, if
anything to poke fun of on the Dark Knight and
that Batman trilogy. There is pants. Yeah it is. It
is a bit extreme, but hey, it goes back to
that you don't want to be identified as, you know,
an eccentric playboy billionaire when you're the Batman. So not
only do you cover your face, you also disguise your voice.
Speaker 3: Right, another tidbit, When Timberton saw the Batmobile for the
first time, yeah, he was blown away. He thought, man,
this is really cool.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: But he's like, that's awesome. Where's the door? And they're like,
somen of them. They forgot to include the doors and
the Batmobile.
Speaker 2: So that's that's where the top comes up and off.
Speaker 3: That's right, That's why they had to address that. So
they had to slide up.
Speaker 2: I thought it all this time. I thought it was
like an airplane deal, like that's because that's how you
get into as fighter jet.
Speaker 3: No, they realized they did not put freaking doorcross the door.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: All right, do you remember the contest where you could
win the Batmobile? I want to talk about that.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, So in nineteen eighty nine, this kid
named Patrick McGlenn, who is a college student.
Speaker 2: Steal a Batmobile. Watch MTV all day this Sunday for
the MTV bat signal, then called the special nine hundred
number on your screen. One of you was going to
walk away on winter.
Speaker 3: He won the actual Batmobile. I remember Robert wool actually
came on and he was the one who pitched it.
Speaker 2: They took out the engine, I remember he's talking about that,
but the jet engine in the back or yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. When he won it, he actually signed a
contract that prevented him from profiting off its exhibition. So
he went to one museum and they somebody stole the
shift lever. The car was also taxable, so he had all.
Speaker 2: This you're telling me that the Batmobile was a manual transmission, Yes, exactly.
Can you imagine grinding the gears?
Speaker 3: So anyway, after all of this, he couldn't really make
any money off of it, and he had to insure it,
and so we had all this IRS problems and insurance problems,
and so he had to sell it at a basically
a loss. So it's nothing but a pain in the butt.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. One of the scenes that.
Speaker 3: Was cut that I wanted to talk about at the
very end of the movie. During the parade. The joker
is like.
Speaker 2: Who do you trust? Right? Right, I'm giving away free money.
Speaker 3: Well, the money that he is giving he mentions earlier
in the movie, Vicky Ville says, what is it that
you want? He's like my face on the one dollar bill? Right,
the money that he is giving away at the parade
was counterfeit and it had jokers face on it. Nice,
Nice saw a big trick. We mentioned that Peter Goober
and John Peters and Tim Burton went to see The
Fan of the Opera right right before they were getting
ready to shoot the bell towers at Bell Tower.
Speaker 2: See, there's this awesome scene in the movie where the
crowd is chasing him and he holds up this hand
like he's got a grenade or dynamite or something that
he's about to throw at him, and the crowd like
pulls back in total fear, and he opens his hand
and there's nothing in it and it just it's all
laugh moment right before they murder him.
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so they went to see this play and
they realized this is our act.
Speaker 2: Three, this is what we're gonna do.
Speaker 3: Right, And once again we talked about how this movie
developed for ten years and they still have had Act
three nailed down. In fact, when they were filming it,
Jack Nicholson's like, now where am I going? Like, what's
going on here?
Speaker 2: What's my motivation?
Speaker 3: Where am I doting?
Speaker 2: Ninety million dollars? Jack, ninety million dollars your motivation?
Speaker 3: And they were like, just go, we'll figure it out later.
It's insane to me that this was not nailed down.
And then also Kim Basinger, who is sleeping with John
Peters right and what I presume is pillow talk, was like,
you know, Vicky Vale rually needs to be there too, Yeah,
And so they're like, yeah, whatever you say, honey, you know.
Speaker 2: Vicky Vale needs to be there as well, right, And
it really doesn't make any sense. It doesn't make any sense.
Speaker 3: Why is she limp dancing?
Speaker 2: Right? We're definitely going to talk about the problems that
we can see as you know, full minded adults. Now,
as a kid, I was just I was in for
the right. It's like, it's like the end of Jaws,
the tank blowing up is absurd. But if you've bought
in for the first two acts, you don't care anymore.
Just you know, show me what happens, and a fight
in a big old bell tower. Is that's something I
want to watch?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: I went for it, right, I definitely went for in
eighty nine.
Speaker 2: So let's real quick, while you're in the midst of this,
let's talk about the difference in style that Batman eighty
nine has from The Dark Knight. We've already talked about
the fact that The Dark Knight is based in realism, right,
and we have real cities, realistic landscapes, and Tim Burton's
Batman is not that at all. It is definitely different
than anything before it, and anything non Tim Burton after
it is so unique. But I think it is a
throwback to the German expressionist styles that were going on
in the Silent movies, you know, before him and all
of that came out, some of that Fritz Lang stuff
that we talked about before, some of the other German filmmakers.
Back then, we're doing kind of these big gothic kind
of sets that were not realistic but engaging. You know.
It's an amazing look that this movie has, even though
it's not any city anybody's ever really been.
Speaker 3: To, right well, and they did that on purpose. They
wanted it to feel noir. But you have I mean,
you have cars and sort of modern vehicles. You have
the bat wing, right, is.
Speaker 2: That a normal vehicle?
Speaker 3: IM absolutely, people flying all the time.
Speaker 2: Okay, but they wanted it to be usually when the
when the moon is full.
Speaker 3: We're going to get the problems here in a second.
But yeah, so they wanted it to be out of time,
you know. And and I think that's one of the
reasons why it does stand up is it's timeless.
Speaker 2: It is timeless.
Speaker 3: One of the tidbits I want to talk to you
about now is Jack Nicholson had specific requirements for his
filming day. Okay, so number one, you want to have
approven on all the latex makeup, joker stuff.
Speaker 2: Crap, crap, crap.
Speaker 3: Oh, he actually said that he is allergic to the
stuff that they apply the latex to, so that do
something creative with that. He also had a very strict
scheduling policy that he got to watch all the Laker games.
Speaker 2: And we know what a big Laker fan was, Yeah,
and I guess, I mean he had to watch him
on TV. He's usually court sided if he can be,
but he must, I mean, he's they.
Speaker 3: Had to work around a Lakers schedule, yes, right, Okay,
I know we're going to talk about problems later. Kim
Basinger screams twenty three times during Batman.
Speaker 2: It is a bit much. It's it's a bit munch.
Speaker 3: It's every time you turn around she sees the Joker,
she screams.
Speaker 2: She got a good scream. But I get it. You know,
we heard it.
Speaker 3: We heard it again and again.
Speaker 2: See Okay.
Speaker 3: I want to point out that our buddy William Hootkins
played Lieutenant Eckhart.
Speaker 2: So this is an important note because this came up
in our one of our very first episodes when we
talked about Raiders of the Lost Arc versus Back in
the Future, and we talked about the fact that the
government man in Raiders of the Lost Arc had also
been in Star Wars, and I was like, Wow, this
guy has been in like two of the biggest blockbusters
of all time. And at that moment you said, well
three if you include Batman, and I was like, oh
my gosh, he is the detective.
Speaker 3: How about this guy's career. Huh, yeah, he plays Porkins.
Speaker 2: Porkins and Star.
Speaker 3: Wars unfortunate name for him.
Speaker 2: Sure, he was a heavier guy, so he.
Speaker 3: Flew one of the X Wings and was killed in
the Battle of the Death Star.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he trimmed up a little bit by the time
Raiders came around. Yeah, and then he gained it all back.
By the time came.
Speaker 3: He was one of the top Men government Agent guys
and Raiders Luster top Men. He was also with Flash Gordon,
he was Munson.
Speaker 2: That's right, he was an assistant. They got smashed. Yes,
I forgot all about that. That is right.
Speaker 3: He's also in Superman four.
Speaker 2: Oh well, which, guys, I forgot about that, But we
are going to be talking about that this summer. Yeah. Well,
I think that's the fourth time we've plugged that in
the series.
Speaker 3: So our buddy William Hookins.
Speaker 2: Get it up. Yeah, from down in Texas, but moved
over to England and became an actor out there.
Speaker 3: Interestingly, Wow, good for him.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, here's some Hollywood dirt for you that I thought
was really interesting. Okay, So there was this love triangle
going on okay on set Batman Okay, okay, Yeah, we
talked about how Michael Keaton was dating Michelle Pfeiffer at
the time, right, But you know, you can be with
the one you love, or you can love the one
you're with right.
Speaker 2: So we still doesn't that.
Speaker 3: So Michael Keaton started to pursue kimbasing her huh, And
there was a bit of a power struggle over Kimbasinger's affections. Sure,
she ended up landing in John Peters bed. We talked
about that, right, Okay, that made Michael Keaton mad because
I mean, of course he's Batman. Yeah, but John Peters
is the producer, right, Okay, right now. Then it doesn't
stop there though.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: She ended up in a whirlwind fanatical romance with the
Purple One himself. Prince Stop the Princes. The song bat
Dance apparently gets her rolling. She moved to Minneapolis to
be with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, what wait a minute, she's on the rise to
start them. She's just done the biggest blockbuster ever in history,
and she moved away from Hollywood.
Speaker 3: She moves to Minneapolis to freaking Pisley Park.
Speaker 2: Paisley Park.
Speaker 3: She moves to Paisley Park. Her family gets so concerned
that she's joined a colt. They show up, Purple that's it,
that's it, So Princess whisked her away. They show up
when they know he's not there to rescue her from
the Purple one himself.
Speaker 2: Did they rescue her?
Speaker 3: I guess so, because she married married Alec Baldwin one
year later.
Speaker 2: Right, it's crazy to me who is also in the
running to be Batman? I think you mentioned that's exactly right.
Speaker 3: One of the things I want to discuss one more time.
And we talked about this, I think in episode one,
the amount of money that Jack Nicholson.
Speaker 2: Made ninety million dollars.
Speaker 3: Ninety million dollars, so he got six million dollars from
the movie, and he got a cut of the profits,
and he got a cut of the.
Speaker 2: Toy action merchandising. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't just for Batman, it was for Batman,
Batman Returns and Batman Forever. Do you remember the McDonald's
Batman Returns glasses?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I do. Did you have the whole set?
Speaker 3: I think so. I don't have it anymore. But the
lid to those glasses was a bat disc, a glow
in the dark bad disc.
Speaker 2: The lid to the number that remember that, I do. Wow,
that's awesome, by the way, thirty years ago this year, right, yes,
n ninety two. Yeah, because I told you I watched
The Birdman before and it talks about the fact that
the last movie he did, he didn't do Birdman for
the last time he was the Birdman was in nineteen
ninety two, which is the last time he was the
Batman too.
Speaker 3: I did like how those lined up a little bit.
Speaker 2: Until this year. And if you haven't seen the preview
for the Flash, you need to go watch it, and
you need to listen to who's talking. It's exciting.
Speaker 3: We're going to compare the Batman here in just a second. Yeah, okay,
a couple more tidbits for you before we move on.
The original line where the guy's.
Speaker 2: Like, who are you?
Speaker 3: Yes, and he says I'm Batman.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 3: The script line was apparently originally I'm Batman m efor.
Speaker 2: Okay. I was like, who is he going to say?
He is? I want Samuel L. Jackson apparently.
Speaker 3: And last night here Christopher Nolan was a fan of
Batman eighty nine.
Speaker 2: That's because he was born in nineteen seventy man. He
grew up with it, just like we did. Good for him.
This is and that's the great thing about him. He
is a guy who loves artistic, beautiful films, but he
also is a guy who loves action packed thrillers. He
grew up with Back to the Future, he grew up
with Raiders of the Lost Art, he grew up with Batman,
which is how he takes an action movie and turns
it into a film. We need to talk about that.
Speaker 3: Let's go and dive into that right now.
Speaker 2: Okay, So whenever they came to him, they start talking
to him. Michael Uslan, who we've talked about, is the guy, right,
He's that guy who's taught the college course. He's the
guy who started Batfilms, inc. He's the guy who's been
a producer on every single one of these. He says,
at that moment, he realized that Batman could be more
than a movie. It could be a film, and it
was Yeah, Batman begins a film, The Dark Knight a film,
The Dark Knight rises, still a film, just a film
that also is filled with action and adventure. I like
how I mean.
Speaker 3: I've seen interviews with Christopher Nolan. He's talking about how
important the Spielberg and Lucas Zamecha is back in the Future,
all of those movies. He talks about how they had
such high quality and that's what he wanted to make.
All Right, I've got a few tidbits from the Dark
Knight I want.
Speaker 2: To bring up.
Speaker 3: Okay, okay, yep, let's talk about Heath Ledger's voice for
a second. Okay, we talked about how Heath Ledger is Australian.
There's no hint of an accent, and he's got that
low kind of it's really odd voice, yeah, disturbing right right.
You know what else he did the prosthetic Glasgow smile. Yes,
would cause him to kind of lick his lips a
little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if it would break easily, and so he had
to lick his lips to keep it from coming off,
which then became a character trait of the Joker.
Speaker 3: It's really cool, yeah, and it fits his whole absolutely.
It's just really neat.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. I'll throw something in here, okay, okay.
Speaker 3: The bat cycle, that pod, the one that jets out
of the Yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that again was a product of Nathan Crowley,
the guy who had thrown together the Humvey and the
seventies Lamborghini. Uh huh. He did that, but he built
six of them because they're going to crash.
Speaker 3: I don't know if we talked about this or not,
but Aaron Eckart based his performance on Bobby Kennedy. Harvey
Dent is supposed to be more or less Bobby Kennedy, Okay,
very much in the law, very much the American.
Speaker 2: Hero refusing to be corrupted.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's exactly right. Yeah, I thought that was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The skyhook that they used to extract the guy in
Hong Kong and Batman, yeah, is an actual thing.
Speaker 2: That was a military technology that they decided not to
really use.
Speaker 3: They do use it at the end of Thunderball in
James Bond. Oh nice, if you'll flash back to our
James Bond Thunderball and never say Never again Octopus to
the episode.
Speaker 2: As I understand if the film scenes that they shot
in Hong Kong were more difficult than they anticipated. Basically,
they said it was an absolute nightmare to try to
deal with the government there because they thought there would
be too much noise. They put all kinds of restrictions
on them. They even asked the residents one night, hey,
will you just leave your lights on tonight? It'll create
a better picture on the film. And they were like,
now you're causing us to waste energy, okay, And so
they had to see gi some stuff that they wouldn't
have normally done. But like that dive that he does,
the bat dive and when he's in Hong Kong, that
one had to be CGID because they just couldn't. They
wouldn't let them have the helicopters over because it would
create too much noise.
Speaker 3: People were up.
Speaker 2: Tied over there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I want to talk to you about. Have
you ever been to Turkey, the country Turkey?
Speaker 2: I have not.
Speaker 3: There's a city over there called Buttman Okay, not Buttman, Buttman,
but it's it's yes, yes, And they sued Warner Brothers yep,
because they were like, that's.
Speaker 2: The name of our city. You can't use that copyright.
Come on, yeah, they yeah, they not only sue them,
they like they blamed this increase in suicide rates and
crime on the movie and the fact that the movie
used the name of the city. It's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, here's something I want to point out. Keith
Ledger and Joaquin Phoenix both won Oscars for performing the same.
Speaker 2: Character, right joker.
Speaker 3: Yes, can you name the other time in history that happened?
Speaker 2: Two people one an oscar for playing the same character. Gosh,
I feel like I should know this, but I don't
give it to me.
Speaker 3: It is Marlon Brando and Robert de Niro playing Fido Corleone.
Speaker 2: Oh god, how was it as a bit of a cheat?
There's no reboot. There was no reboot there that was okay.
But that's that's that's good. I go, all right, good, Well,
you are.
Speaker 3: Going to be covering The Godfather versus Godfather Too versus Goodfellas, right,
which I think is perfect.
Speaker 2: Once again, we have this divine thing watching out for
us and how we do these episodes. The next three
movies that we're going to cover are The Godfather, Happy
fiftieth Anniversary, The Godfather Too, and Goodfellas. But as it
turns out, Batman when he began was at the time
of organized crime also rising to power, and so a
lot of the guys that Batman fought were these mobsters. Gangsters, yeah, mafia, right,
That's who Batman was fighting in the early comic books.
And looking at the Batman, I think they're going to
throw back to that. Oswald Copperpot has a definite gangster
feel about him, and it really looks like a story
about the corruption of government, which you see all over
the place in the Godfather, the corruption of government officials
by organized crime.
Speaker 3: Okay, Batman versus Michael Corleone discuss musk yourselves, all right,
So a couple other tidbits I don't want to forget. Yeah,
there is actually very little blood in.
Speaker 2: The Dark Night, right, you get one.
Speaker 3: I think Commissioner Gordon get shot in the back when
he saves the Mayor's life.
Speaker 2: I don't think you see any blood there, but yes,
I think there's a squib squib one sip one squib predator.
Speaker 3: Not not predator, that's right. So yeah, very little blood.
But it's still a very tense movie. Yeah, and violent
at times. Right we saw, you know, the pencil and
the eyeball trick da No blood, no blood, but still
very disturbing.
Speaker 2: It's intense. You can you can create the empathetic feeling
of pain without having to use blood. For sure.
Speaker 3: When Christian Bale and Heath Ledger were together in that
interrogation scene, yeah, Heath Ledger is like, I really want
you to hit me.
Speaker 2: Uh huh, I want you to hit me as hard
as you can. Ah, you hit me in the ear.
So I would seriously question the wisdom in asking Christian
Bale to hit you as hard as he can, because
number one, we know how much muscle he put on
for this movie. But number two, he also trained in
the Kisi fighting method to perform all of the stunts.
So he's not only big and strong, he's a be
a fighter now because of his training. But it does
look like it hurts when he slams his head into
the table. Some get all fuzzy killing you. What would
I do without you? You complete me? So good man,
it's spot off. And that's another thing, another thing just
about movies. A great movie has a villain that is
one that with just a little bit of twisting, the
hero could become the villain, just like Raiders of the
Lost Stark, with a little push, you two could step
into the dark. Right now, you're getting nasty. But as
it turns out, that becomes a trope that everybody uses.
So you you're just a reflection of me, is just
a thing that you hear all the time. But to
say to take a line from Jerry Maguire of all
places and say you complete me as a way to
say the same thing, was a stroke of brilliance.
Speaker 3: Okay, I want to talk about the boats with the
you know, regular people going to work and the boat
with the prisoners. And that's the final test of Gotham City. Right,
both boats are rigged to explode, and all they have
to do is push the switch, right, and ultimately the
people of Gotham defeat the Joker themselves because nobody pushes
the button. Now, then, Christopher Nolan has said that whoever
pushed the button would have actually detonated their own boat.
Of course, because the joker, it's the joker, right, that's
what he does, right, He's a two faced if you will.
But I thought that was interesting because I was one
of those people that was like, I don't know, how
do I feel about this? When I push the button?
Speaker 2: Everybody did. Everybody in that scene asked themselves the question
and answered it what would I do in the situation?
Speaker 3: By the way, Michael Keaton huge fan of The Dark Knight.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Now I heard Jack Nicholson talk about it,
and he was not a huge fan.
Speaker 3: Oh really what he's saying, Well.
Speaker 2: He said that he didn't think that they got it right.
He was like Tim Burton had the right idea, But
he also sounded like a guy whose financial welfare was
tied to the original movies.
Speaker 3: He's a little bit married to Tim Burton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, let's talk about the scores, the soundtracks, the
amazing bands and artists of the eighties who are involved
in both of these movies. Okay, So first, obviously we
have Batman eighty nine, we have a young film composer,
and we have prints two different people. Yeah right, yep.
Now that young film composer, his name has become prominent
since then. Oh yeah, And at the time, he was
just coming into film production out of a band that
you might have heard of called Oingo Boingo. Yeah, he
had started off with his brother. They did weird, avant
garde stuff. They The rule of that his brother made,
and this was back when it was called the Mystic
Knights of the Oingo Boingo was we are not going
to play anything contemporary. They did not play rock and roll,
they did not play disco. They were playing like circus
music and stuff from the forties and fifties. Right.
Speaker 5: It's weird, it's really weird.
Speaker 2: I really enjoy it, but it is not something that
you're going to rock your head to. It's just kind
of fun, goofy music, which I say, Danny elfman, you think. Okay, yeah,
he was big adventure right, it's fun kind of circus
like music. So he has this band and his brother
decides to leave. He becomes the lead member of the band.
He gets he said, they had so much stuff that
it required a semitruck just to move all of their
stuff because it was this big, you know, theater like production.
So he whittled down their stuff, and he whittled down
the band, and it just became Oingo Boingo and they
started having music in quite a few different movies. Okay,
so starting in nineteen eighty, who had left the band
did this really really weird and very inappropriate movie called
Forbidden Zone, and so he had a hand in the
music for that. But then Oingo Boingo had songs in
Chips Chips, this TV series, Yes, the Last American Virgin,
Fast Times at Ridgemont High, sixteen Candles, Bachelor Party, Beverly
Hills Cop and the one that we all know and
you mentioned back to School earlier. But before that, he
had weird science.
Speaker 1: From my heart and from my hand.
Speaker 4: Why don't people understand my intentions?
Speaker 2: Title? Right? John Hughes said, Hey, I'm doing this movie
love for you to do a song for what's it
called Weird Science. He wrote the lyrics on the way home,
had the melody by the time he got home to
make that song.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic.
Speaker 2: Yes, so Texas Chainsaw Masker two by the way, and
something Wild, which we've mentioned a few times, Summer School,
which you love. I did, and then he it's asked
to compose with Tim Burton in his movies, and so
we get Peevey's Big Adventure, fantastic movie, fantastic score, but
it's comedy, right, it's goofy beetlejuice, very wacky, fantastic score,
but again dark comedy. Right, that's it. Right now, we're
going to give you a superhero movie based on a
character who's been around at that point for fifty years.
That's a big that's a big as. It's just a
big ask. Right. Do you think he delivered?
Speaker 3: Absolutely?
Speaker 2: I think he delivered. What do you think of this
sound dragon?
Speaker 3: Well, so I know that when he sat down with
John Peters, Danny Elfman really didn't know how to do
this where he present to the producer and so they're
sitting there and Danny Elfman's like, well, here's what I
think about when they're having to shootout you and he's
playing this, He's like, well, here's what I think about
when the joker walks out of the room, and Tim
Burn's like, play the march. Play the march. Yeah.
Speaker 2: John Peters is not thinking he's going to make it.
Speaker 3: Not impressed at all now, So he plays the wonderful,
full on Batman theme, and John Peters is life, that's it.
Speaker 2: You nailed it.
Speaker 3: I'm fully on board. Once he heard the Batman march, yeah,
he was like, let's do this.
Speaker 2: You're hired. Okay. So his the Batman theme by Danny
Elfman is really just five notes. It's five notes, okay.
It is B C sharp d g F sharp, and
you get that over and over from different instruments, in
different speeds, in different styles, but you get that theme
all over the place. And then a lot of times
he goes and he goes in to reach kind of
a period point. He'll end it with this C sharp
major chord and it's it kind of puts an exclamation
point at the end of that theme that you've had
over and over again. But there is a definite Batman
theme that means just those five notes. But it's something
that he took and molded in so many different ways
that it played perfectly no matter whether the Batman was
in a huge fight with the Joker or he's retrospective
about his life as the Batman and his relationship with
Vicky Vale. It was all those same five notes in
different ways.
Speaker 3: You ready to talk about Prince?
Speaker 2: Oh? I got a live one here, Oh.
Speaker 3: I got a live one here.
Speaker 2: Stop the presence.
Speaker 3: This town needs an anemo. Let's talk about Prince for
a second.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So Warner Brothers went to John Peters and said, listen,
there's a lot of money in music right now. We
need some contemporary music to go along with this soundtrack.
John Peters is like, okay. They talked about Michael Jackson,
they talked about George Michael, they kicked it around. Well
who they settle on?
Speaker 2: Prince?
Speaker 3: Sure. So Tim Burton's like, I don't really think we
need Prince. He's like, no, you don't understand. We're having Prince.
Speaker 2: This is not an ask, this is a tell.
Speaker 3: I'm telling you Prince is going to be produced some
songs for the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So Tim Burton was not a fan, but Prince delivered,
mostly for The Joker. You have the Party Man song
that he plays at the museum where Joker is, you know,
messing up all the art and painting stuff, which Jack
Nicholson's a big art fan. He felt kind of uncomfortable
with that scene.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And then Prince actually produced the song Trust that Joker
plays during the parade.
Speaker 2: Right, which we mentioned they had a song from Purple
Rain in that spot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was Baby I'm a Star exactly.
Speaker 2: And if you listen to those two songs next to
each other, you go, oh, yeah, well it's the same rhythm.
It's the exact same rhythm. They sound very similar even, huh.
Speaker 3: That summer we had the number one song bat Dance,
which is maybe the most ludicrous number one song of
all time. But I was swept.
Speaker 2: Away in it.
Speaker 3: Of course, they don't play it in the movie at all.
Speaker 2: No, it's not in the movie. They actually take the
movie and play it in the song. It's all these
clips and sound fights and quotes from Vicky Vale's scream
even shows up in the song. And then you've got
the video where he's dressed up as both the Joker
and Batman, as though he is two face. Now, that
was a brilliant.
Speaker 3: Decision, was That probably is what sealed the deal with
Kim Basinger.
Speaker 2: That song is both ways.
Speaker 3: That song is so ridiculous. But I had the KA single.
Speaker 2: I had the KA single, You had the K single.
Speaker 3: Yes awesome. I'm just gonna throw this out there. One
more song on that soundtrack that I really like is
called the Arms of Oryan. It's a very soft song,
but it's him and Sheena Easton flashback to our Sign
of the Times episode where they sang you got.
Speaker 2: To look together. Yep.
Speaker 3: But I think that that's the best song on the soundtrack.
Speaker 2: To get the little all the world, I've listened to
that soundtrack, I really enjoyed it. It's a great if
your Prince fan, it is a great bunch of songs.
But you're right, they only really used to ish maybe
three songs in the whole movie of off of that soundtrack.
He just kind of made the He took a couple
of songs and made an album out of the rest
of it. Right. But as it turned out, everybody who
were very familiar with Prince knew he was doing the soundtrack,
and they thought he had composed all of the score
as well, and so then they started doing news stories
where they're interviewing Danny Elfman and he's like, yet, that's me,
that's not Prince. And they told me that Prince was
going to be involved and do songs, which I don't
have any problem with that. I'm excited. I love Prince's music.
But when he starts getting credit for my music, then
I that's where I kind of draw the line. I'm
not really comfortable with that.
Speaker 3: One more thing about Prince's music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a.
Speaker 3: Song on that soundtrack called Scandalous. They have an extended
version of Scandalous where Kim Basinger and Prince can be
heard tristing in the studio, tristing, tristing, tristing.
Speaker 2: Is that what Axel roast?
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what is a trist Yes, when Axel
rose nail dead girl in the studio in Rock and Queen, you.
Speaker 2: Have the same thing. Oh my gosh. Yes, Okay, So
where can you hear? This scandalous version of scandalis on
the internet and Kim Basinger is singing on she's rapping,
She's rapping, She's rapping. Kim Basinger is rapping. Yeah, this
is something I get it, all right, So shall we
move on to the Dark Knight. Yes, okay, so I
said three artists and bands of the eighties. We've mentioned Prince,
We've mentioned Olingo Boingo, and you know who. The third
artist that we of the eighties that we should bring
up is the Buggles. The Buggles, yes, video killed the
Radio Star. And why is that involved in what we're
talking about? Because Hans Zimmer used to be a member
of the Bugle. He played the keyboards for the Buggles. Yes,
I'm not sure if you can see him in the
video or not, but yes, he was a member of
the Buggles. So both the composer for Batman eight nine
and the composer for the Dark Knight trilogy came from
bands at the eighties.
Speaker 3: That's unbelievable.
Speaker 2: So Hans Zimmer, I mean, he's one of the most
prolific composers in existence. I mean it's he's probably number two,
right under John Williams. Right. I mean, you can you
can throw some other names around that are close, but
I don't think that anybody has had his hands on
as much stuff in the last twenty years as Hans
Zimmer has. Starting with Gladdie, I mean he did plenty
before that, but there, I mean movie.
Speaker 3: The Gladiator soundtrack is phenomenal.
Speaker 2: It is, it's fantastic, and I love Hans Zimmer's music,
but it is not anything not anything like Danny Alfhon's music,
right you you literally this is I know this is
gonna sound crazy. There's basically a two note theme for
Batman in The Dark Night. You hear it twice in
the whole movie. Okay, for the I mean twice at
the end of the movie, like when they roll the credits,
you'll hear it again. But as the action goes on
in the movie, you only hear the Batman theme twice.
The rest of it is all orchestration with and I'm
gonna throw a you know, the soundtrack an ostinato, which
is a repeating phrase, and that's what Hans Zimmer is
an expert at is this repeating, repeating phrase and still
just a couple of notes, just a couple of notes.
But the other composer on this movie is a guy
named James Newton Howard, who is also hugely prolific. Okay,
so James Newton Howard also has a huge prolific history.
He has done basically all of The m Night Sheymalan movies,
did the sixth sense signs all of those. He did Unbreakable,
he did Batman Begins, he did King Kong, he did
Freedom Land. He's a very prolific composer as well. And
he and Hans Zimmer worked together on the score for
the Dark Knight trilogy, right, And they had initially composed
a very intricate and multi note theme for Batman and
for the Dark Knight, but they decided to scrap it.
They decided to take it away and make it a
two note project. And if you listen to what James
Newton Howard does and what Hans Zimmer does, you can
tell that Hans Zimmer is really kind of the driving
force behind most of the music in this movie. But
they divided up work as you do, right, and so
a couple of other ways that you can tell the
difference on the way that they write. As you listen
to the two different songs, Hans Zimmer said, Hey, I'll
handle the Joker's music. Why don't you handle Harvey dent
Slash Two Faces music? Right, Let's start with the Joker.
His theme is the beginning theme, which is why so serious?
Speaker 3: Why so serious?
Speaker 2: So let's listen to that. This is the beginning of
the movie, and you can hear that beginning sound where
it's I mean, it reminds me of Pink Floyd and
the Hey you kind of the worms in your brain.
I think it's like a razor blade on some strings
and a kind of rising. We talked about how Christopher
Nolan likes to do that Shepherd tone where it just
continues to rise and rise and build that tension, and
that's what he's doing with this, and then there's the
Joker has this definite Hans Zimmer style on all of
his music, right, yeah, okay, So now, in.
Speaker 3: Fact, I think even Christopher Nolan said the theme, the
one word theme for The Dark Knight Rises is escalation.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so you can hear how James Howard Newton
has a completely different style than Hans Zimmer has. James
Howard Newton is more of that neoclassical stuff we loved
from the eighties, like John Williams is, whereas Hans Zimmer
definitely has his own style. He does that Austinato repeating
phrase that just builds and builds, Whereas James Newton Howard's
style is more pretty, more like we expect in a
standard score from the twentieth century. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's some of the best composers working in the
business today.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk Batman eighty nine problems first.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I've.
Speaker 3: Got a few that I want to discuss. I'm glad
to get these off my chest. I've been dealing with
these for thirty some odd years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I love Batman eighty nine. I don't want
to get into my judgment just yet, but let's talk
about these problems.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 3: So number one, Alfred betrays Bruce Wayne by letting his
girlfriend in the batcave.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, his whole emotional struggle that we are
hoping to have him solve is whether to tell her
that he's Batman or not. And Alfred comes along and
completely lets the air out of his tanks. I mean, what,
what what?
Speaker 3: Alfred likes her more than Bruce does. Bruce is ready
to just let her go and ghost her, but freaking
Alfred lets her in. Okay, major problem with that problem. Okay,
I have another problem. The scene where the joker attacks
the mobster on the steps of the courthouse and he
kills him with the quill the pen is truly mightier
than the soul.
Speaker 2: Yes, the quill. Hey Vinnie, it's your uncle Bingo. Once again,
Jack Nicholschusson can take an absolutely ridiculous line and make
it awesome.
Speaker 3: His his makeup is weird, weird and yeah, crazy, that's
slight problem.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but here's the thing.
Speaker 3: So Bruce Wayne is watching all these minds commit murder
right on the steps to the courthouse. Right, Bruce Wayne
gets shot in the shoulder. What he gets shot? He
gets shot in that seat, Yes, he absolutely does. And
in fact, you can see his jacket. There's like a
bullet hole in the side of his arm.
Speaker 2: He's unfazed. Yes, he's unfazed. He's all from Beverly Hill's
cor exactly, exactly. Okay, I'm good.
Speaker 3: Axel fully takes a thirty eight to the shoulder and
it's like ouch, yeah, that's it. Bruce Wayne doesn't even
give that like he he acts like he doesn't even
feel it. And then later Alfred is going through his
clothing and sticks his finger through the bullet hole in
his coat and it's like interesting, weird, and that's it.
Bruce Wayne is human being. Yeah, he's not a superhero.
That's what makes Batman.
Speaker 2: So cool, right, that's weird. Okay, yeah, problem one, problem one,
problem too.
Speaker 3: Problem to the problem that the Joker also imposes on
Batman and also Gotham City is that he's released this
chemical that causes people to die laughing and have these
weird stretch he smiles on their faces.
Speaker 2: Whatever. Yeah, bat Man just shows.
Speaker 3: Up and like like literally two minutes later, he's like,
here's the combination solved it.
Speaker 2: Like, like, I get he's a detective, but let's see
a little let's show your work please. Okay, how did
you solve this problem? I figured it out.
Speaker 3: It's detergent and dealerate.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's a combination of all these various things.
And it only took me five minutes to figure out.
I'm surprised that all of the scientists couldn't figure it
out already.
Speaker 3: It figures it out like five It is ridiculous. Okay.
Speaker 2: It's like it is like Lex Luthor figuring out where
the Kryptonite is in Superman, Like he pulls out it Encyclopedia.
Here's a meteor, let's go get it.
Speaker 3: Problem three the bat Wing in Act three.
Speaker 2: I love the bat Wing.
Speaker 3: The bat Wing is awesome, and it does do that
majestic thing up against the moon, which is super cool.
Speaker 2: I think the audience cheered when that happened. It's really cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the bat Wing comes down and is going
to take out the Joker.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, right, is gonna is gonna The sites are
locked in, and if there's anything we learned from the
movie Top Gun, it's when you've got a gridlock, that
person is dead meat on the gridlock. I'll got a
joke for you, ready, Yeah, Okay, Why couldn't Batman kill
the Joker with the bat Wing? Why because he didn't
use the force.
Speaker 3: He should have turned off his targeting computer.
Speaker 2: He should have.
Speaker 3: Okay, he had him in the sights and he fires
missiles and machine guns.
Speaker 2: And Jack Joker just stands there facing him, balls out.
I'm not scared, and he has no reason to be
because he can't hit the broadside of a barn. Totally
misses everything. And then Jack pulls out this ridiculous circus gun.
I really expected it to shoot out the bang that
comes a little bit later in the movie, but it's absurd.
It's ten feet long, one shot and he takes down
the Okay, wait, a minute.
Speaker 3: Now, is it more absurd that he took down the
bat Wing with one shot or the fact that he
can dance to Prince songs with a four foot gun
in his pants.
Speaker 2: A gun in your pants?
Speaker 3: So one shot takes down the bat wing?
Speaker 2: Uh huh, come on, that's stupid.
Speaker 3: We saw the batmobile take multiple bullets and yeah, no
problems at all, exactly. So then the bat wing crashes
and crashes into the church, right, which is the biggest
church I've ever seen in my life.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, and so crashes into the church. And so
what's the joker solution. Let's go to the top of
the church, because why not? Because why what? What?
Speaker 3: Well, that's where the helicopter guys are, that's where the
ninjas are hiding. That hasn't even He's got men at
the top of the cathedral for some reason.
Speaker 2: And then Vicky Vale. Can we talk about Vicky Vale
and what's going on here? Sure, sure, she is kidnapped,
she is taken against her will, and yet some she
is leading the way, unsurely leading the way. She's she's
the one that's in front and looking behind in a
what's going on manner, but still moving up the stairs
to the top of the bell tower. Bruce Wayne Batman,
who survives a gun shot without even being phased, is
a stuporing, drunk mess. After the Batwing crash, he nudges
a pew and they all come a tum tum, tumbling
down like a bunch of dominoes. My kids are like,
wait a minute, is this Batman? What's going on? What
is he doing? It's ridiculous. Yeah, So he clues in
the Joker that he has lived and that he is
on his way up to catch him. So that the
Joker can walk, He TALKI the Ninja and the gigantic
bodyguard to do his fighting for him. That's right.
Speaker 3: So once they get to the top of the cathedral,
Mickey Vail is going to Raggedy Ann dance with him
for some unknown reason.
Speaker 2: It's limp noodle, what what's going on? It is just
plain absurd.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, she does the exact same thing and
Tom Petty's Mary Jay's last dance, right, So apparently Tom
Petty liked it so and then the distraction tactics.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so she sees the she sees Batman, and
she thinks, oh, okay, I know what to do at
this point. I've been in this situation before.
Speaker 3: If there's one thing I know that men get distracted by,
she's gonna she's gonna go say hi to mister little Jobs.
Speaker 2: No matter where they're actors or producers.
Speaker 3: And Jack Nicholson's face is priceless in that moment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, surprise and pleasure.
Speaker 3: Okay, I was expecting this at this moment, but I'm
gonna go ahead and go with it. The helicopter guys
can wait a few minutes.
Speaker 2: Excuse me, have you ever danced with the devil in
the Pale moonlight? Okay? So yes, all of that. That
whole Act three is a bit absurd, and we we
still have the problem of Batman's killing people. He kills
the ninja, he kills the big bodyguard, and he just
flat out says to the joker, I'm gonna kill you.
Speaker 3: I'm going to kill you. Yeah, yeah, you idiot, you
made me remember. Yeah, that seems cool.
Speaker 2: The writing is a bit forced, but again, nineteen eighty nine,
I was all in. It's like jobs, you know, if
you bought in for the first two acts. In Act three,
it doesn't matter how ridiculous he gets. I'm all in.
My kids weren't. My kids were a little wiser. They're
twenty first century kids. You're like, I'm not buying this. Okay,
what's going on here?
Speaker 3: Well, when he hits the pavement, he cracks the asphalt.
That would not happen.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about I mean, number one batman kills him, right,
I mean, no, he didn't shoot him in the head,
but he's the one that shot the grappling hook around
his ankle and then shot the other one around the
gargoyle that apparently the super glue didn't take on and
take the gargoyle immediately comes off. This thing that's so
incredibly heavy just kind of easily pops off because it's
hooked onto the joker's ankle, and then he shoots. That
scene is a bit terrifying to see him shoot down.
But then as he's down there and the laugh box
is going off and all of the concrete is cracked,
my ten year old daughter goes says to me, would
he really have cracked the concrete like that? And I'm like, no,
it would not. Well why do they do that? Well,
because they probably would have had rather had cracked concrete
than cracked joker. You would have been joker goo all
over the street in reality. But this isn't reality, honey,
this is This is a comic book movie. But it
is an awesome comic book movie.
Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about the problems with the Dark Knight.
Speaker 2: What the problem? There are no problems with The Dark Knight.
Speaker 3: Hear me out on this. Okay, we already discussed. Both
you and I agree that this is one of the
best movies of the twenty first century.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one of the best movies of all time.
Speaker 3: And it may be a near perfect movie.
Speaker 2: It is h Yeah, it is entire I would put
it in the top ten movies of all time.
Speaker 3: Honestly, I don't want to bag on this movie because
I appreciate the character development. I appreciate going for story
rather than selling toys. I don't want to take anything
away from The Dark Knight. Yeah, there are a couple
of problems. Okay, here's my biggest problem. Okay, Okay, when
Harvey Dent gets his face melted off, Yeah, and he
turns to talk to Gordon and Gordon sees the half
of his face, Yep, that's cgi does not look good.
Speaker 2: Okay, So we know that Christopher Nolan wanted to go
reality reality as much as reality could bear a comic
book movie. That's the way he wanted to go. And
they had several masks. I mean, problem number one is
with a burned face, the idea is you have to
remove face, and that's real hard to do on a
real human being. So they did masks to try to
do it. You can't build up, but they tried to anyway,
and they made them very realistic. And the problem was
it was so realistic it took you out, like you
were unsettled. I mean, it's like gory, nasty stuff, and
so you were taking out. And so this is the
one time that he was like, maybe we should make
this less realistic so that people can still live through
the movie.
Speaker 3: Okay, I just didn't think. You know, throughout the entire movie,
they do all these practical effects and everything looks fantastic,
and then they have one shot it's like Princess Leah's
face at the end of Rogue one. You're like, eh, yeah,
that's not rh not quite there, all right. And my
other problem I told you that I think that it
would have been really cool if they'd figured it out
a way for two face to arise at the end
of that movie, rip his bandages off, and ah, I'm
two Face and he's the bad guy for part three, right,
and now it has screwed the whole plot of the
movie up.
Speaker 2: And I get that.
Speaker 3: I just think that would have been a really cool moment,
much like the end of Batman Begins, where we had
that little teaser about the Joker.
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, it could have been. It could have been
a cool ending. And honestly, the first two acts in
the length of the movie, it was strong enough to
end it with him just being the Two Face. But
like with the first movie, they didn't know whether there
was going to be a second movie. Even with the
third movie, they didn't know whether there was going to
be a fourth movie. What they would do is try
to write the movie as a standalone movie. And so
if you limit yourself to, well, we can't go into
two Face and what he does because we're saving that
for the next movie, then you've unnecessarily limited yourself. And
so that's why he's the driving force behind Act three.
Which if there's a problem with the movie, it's that
Act three doesn't finish as strong as Act one and
two build it up to be. Yeah, that's that's the
only but it's still a good I mean if you
took if you took it as a standalone and didn't
even include Act one and X two, it's great. I mean,
the whole flipping of the coin and two face and
the conversion of the White Knight into the Dark Knight,
because that's really what the title is about. It's not
just a reference to Batman. It's a reference to the
takedown of the near perfect character of Harvey Dent. So
that standing alone is great, but it's preceded by so
much incredible Joker and Batman action that it's it's hard
to live up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. Okay, we've done with problems. Yeah, can't
think of anything else. No, nothing other than the fact
that the Joker in nineteen eighty nine had time to
get all of his cars panted purple and get all
the jackets, you know, with the Joker label on it
and stuff like that.
Speaker 6: Right, Okay, guys, we're going to take a quick break
and do our surely showcase. We have a special guest
going to tell us their opinion on who the best
Batman is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is our good friend, Tristan Martin. Tristan's been
with us since day one. One of my best friends
in the entire world, and somebody I can bounce ideas
off of. We appreciate him. Here's what Tristan had to
say about who the best Batman was.
Speaker 4: Hey, this is Shirley Fan Tristan Martin. I've been listening
since day one and I've even re listened. Love what
you guys do. And uh, Jason, you have asked me
to talk about Batman. So in my first thirty minutes,
I'll say just kidding now, I will try to limit
it to my favorite Batman man, and I'm gonna skip
Adam Wesk. I'm gonna skip George Clooney thought Affleck was okay.
What's hard for me is saying who is number one.
I would put Christian Bale at number three. I think
he did a great job in those movies. And I
would say that The Dark Knight is definitely my favorite
Batman movie because it is the best Batman movie. It's hard,
but Keaton is gonna be my second choice. That nostalgia
factor is there. Also. I just think Keaton can really
play anything. I mean, he's great as a villain, he's
great as a good guy. Spider Man, Birdman, whatever it is,
Keaton is awesome, And again, he was my Batman growing up.
I did have the Batman command Sitter, I had the
Michael Keaton toy, all of that stuff, and I still
love Keaton. I loved the eighty nine Batman comic book
series that they're they're putting out right now. But as
far as the best Batman to me, the longest running
quality performance, it's got to be Kevin Conroy. Kevin Conroy
was the Batman the animated series star. His Bruce was great,
and his Batman was great too. And the reason that
I put him above Bail is because Bail added in
and I don't know if this was Nolan's idea or
what making Batman have the scary voice ar Batman Row,
which I get because you want to distinguish Batman from
Bruce Wayne. But I feel like like Kevin Conroy's Bruce
Wayne and Batman were still a bit different, and Batman
still seemed like a detective. He wasn't just a brawny
guy almost like the crime fighting comes second to him
figuring things out, and that's why he can play with
the Riddler and all these other super intelligent people because
he's a detective, and I feel like Kevin Conroy really
filled that role. Well, I think I've gone over time,
so I apologize. Guys. You do a great job. Love it,
love Batman, so keep on keeping on.
Speaker 6: Okay, So that's a good one. Like we didn't approach
the animated series, we didn't talk cartoons. There have obviously
been a ton of actors who have contributed their voice
to Batman. But that's I mean, valid conclusion.
Speaker 3: Valid conclusion, man, I mean Covin strong with the Kevin Conroy.
Speaker 6: That's really cool, and it is detective comics after all.
Appreciate that the detective opinion.
Speaker 3: Tristan's a big comic book fan and so he knows
these stories. Well, Tristan, thanks so much, buddy, appreciate you.
He has been just a valuable person to bounce ideas
off of and get feedback from. Tristan.
Speaker 6: Thanks buddy, Thanks Tristan.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's go to comparisons. Are we ready to dive in?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's go. Let's let's let's do judgment. You know
what to change things up, Let's do judgment this time.
Let's judge Batman to Batman, Joker to Joker. Uh, Batmobile
to Batmobile. Let's let's do that, and then finish off
with movie to movie.
Speaker 3: All right, let's do it. Okay, go batmobile to Batmobile
nineteen eighty nine's top sliding off to the Tumblr?
Speaker 2: What do you think I on this particular scenario have
to go with nostalgia. I can remember in the theater
seeing the Batmobile come out in eighty nine, and you know,
the only Batmobile experience I had that point was watching
the old reruns of the Adam West stuff where they're
in basically the nineteen sixties convertible car. And to see
that thing, that big, long, glorious bat looking, bulletproof, amazing
armed car come out, I was like, I want that.
I want that car. Why don't they make cars like that?
I think it was fantastic. The tumblr is cool, There's
no question the tumblr is cool and more realistic. But
for me, I got to say, Batmobile eighty nine, Okay,
in this case, you're way off base because the tumbler
is way cooler.
Speaker 3: You have the tires and the just the attack vehicle
look of it. I also love the fact that the
motorcycle can break out of the tumbler.
Speaker 2: It's so awesome.
Speaker 3: This case, I'm going all the way in Tumblr over
the old one.
Speaker 2: Okay, And just to throw back to problem with the movie,
the one problem I did have with The Dark Knight
is the tumbler going from rooftop to rooftop when it
hits the church. I'm like, no way that one sink
into the bottom of the church like a stone. There's
no way it's gonna hold up on those shingles. But anyway, yeah, okay,
so you're picking Tumblr. I got Tumblr, all right. So
Batman and Batman go Batman and Batman. Okay.
Speaker 3: Michael Keaton versus Christian Bale, Yeah, what do you call?
It's Michael Keaton. Michael Keaton doesn't necessarily look the part,
but he's got so much charisma. He's such a likable guy.
As Batman, he can play the dark. He's just a
lot more fun. I'm going Michael Keaton all the way again.
Speaker 2: I gotta go with you on this one. This is
nostalgia again. It's I like in Superman, I picked Man
of Steel over Superman one and two. Love them all,
but Christopher Reeves is always going to be Superman to me,
And in the same vein, Michael Keaton is always going
to be Bruce Wayne. To me, Christian Bale looks more
like a superhero. He's tall, he's fit, he's muscular, I mean,
he's he a good jaw line. I mean, he's got
it all. But nostalgia again wins out in this scenario.
Michael Keaton gave us a portrayal that was memorable. He
could go a little bit crazy and we could see it.
Bruce Wayne was troubled and brooding and basically kind of
the same as Batman. Whereas Christian Bale played the you
know where, he was playing a part as Bruce Wayne.
The real guy was Batman and the character the actor
was Bruce Wayne with this playboy nonsense that he was doing.
And as hard as that was to pull off in
a believable way, can't leave Michael Keaton byd He's just
too good.
Speaker 3: By the way, just a side note, the scene where
Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson meet and there's another rooster
in the henhouse at Biggi Vale's apartment and Michael Keaton
slides in the little aluminum tray that's going to stop
a low caliber joker gun.
Speaker 2: It's a good thing he didn't have the circus.
Speaker 3: Gup, think about Dumb and Dumber, where I'm like, what
if he's shut you in the face?
Speaker 2: What if he shot me in there? Yeah, what if
he shot me in the face. That's a risk we
were willing to take it, all right, Joker to Joker
d Europe. Okay, there is no question that Jack Nicholson's
Joker was an icon is still an icon. It was
the reason that nobody wanted to be the Joker when
the Dark Knight was being cast. Every line that he
says is memorable. Yes, Jack Nicholson in any movie that
he's in is going to be Jack, but it's like
he was Jack plus on all of these Joker lines.
But when Heath Ledger takes on that challenge and reinvents
the Joker and doesn't do anything like Jack Nicholson did,
but gives us a guy who you're like, whoa, This
guy has got a bag of cats in his head
until three quarters into the movie, and then all of
a sudden he almost makes sense. That takes some extreme
skill and to do it in a character that's so memorable.
I gotta go, Heath Ledger, God rest his soul, all right?
Speaker 3: I agree with you, Heath Ledger presents some real menace,
particularly for me, in those videos of him with those
victims that we actually talked about. He directed those scenes himself. Yeah,
where he's gonna kill those people, the guy in the
hockey pants, you know, and he has such a great
presence and you believe that he wants the world to burn,
and he's all in crazy but crazy like a fox,
right m h. And then you've got Jack Nicholson, who
may be his most iconic movie role ever and maybe
the most iconic role of the eighties, where he's playing
the Joker and he laughs at that crazy laugh throughout
the entire movie, and it's so much fun. And every
line is memorable, right, I mean, never rub another man's rubarb.
Speaker 2: Right, I could speel him out. He stole my balloons?
What didn't somebody tell me he had one of those things?
Speaker 3: So this town needs Can someone tell me what kind
of a world we live in?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: So every line is memorable. Spike in the Football put
me down. Jack Nicholson as the original iconic Joker.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, all right, I understand. Okay, let's go movie
to movie. Okay, let me go first. You know what
my vote is on this you go ahead, all right.
Speaker 3: So in this case, I love Batman eighty nine. It
hit me at the exact right moment. I talked a
lot about how the summer of nineteen eighty nine is
one of my favorite summers of all time. I was sixteen,
I was going to see every movie in the theater.
My friends and I saw this multiple times. I love
Batman eighty nine. I love Michael Keaton. I've talked about
how Jack Nicholson's Joker is more iconic to me. But
Dark Knight is a way better movie.
Speaker 2: It's not even close.
Speaker 3: Batman is great for what it is, but The Dark
Knight is far and away a better movie. Spike the football,
what do you got?
Speaker 2: I don't need to go into a lot of detail either.
There's no mystery. I haven't tried to fool you during
this episode, these last three episodes at all. There's no
question that The Dark Knight is a better film. Like,
if I want to have fun and eat popcorn with
my family, we're gonna put in Batman eighty nine and
we're just gonna have a silly time. And that's great,
and it's a great movie. It's exciting, it's fun. But
Christopher Nolan took a comic book and made it a
film by itself, even without the character history of eighty
years of the Batman. If you just switched Batman out
for some other made up new superhero and the Joker
with some other made up psychopath, this still would be
a fantastic film. And therefore it beats It beats Batman
eighty nine a question about it.
Speaker 3: We love both of these, love them, but we're both
all in on the dark knight.
Speaker 2: Yep. We want to hear from you, guys. Where are you?
Where are we? What do you think? Weigh in?
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Speaker 2: What do you think? We've got a lot of top
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you again in a week and then next week after
that and what do we got coming up? What's in store?
Speaker 3: We are celebrating The Godfather's fiftieth anniversary next week by
matching it up with The Godfather Part two and Goodfellas.
Godfather Part one has been described as one of the
best movies ever made. Yes, Godfather Too has been described
as maybe the best sequel ever made. Yes, and Goodfellas.
Speaker 2: Martin Scorsese's arguably his Godfather. That's gonna be a tough one.
That is gonna be a tough one. But we might
have a special sneak episode in between now and then,
because hopefully things go according to plan, Jason and I
will have caught the new movie The Batman, and we
will be able to come back and tell you our
thoughts on that. Join us back here next week.
Speaker 3: If you know a Batman fan, have them subscribe, have
them listen rub our rhubarb for us on this deal.
We'll see you next week for The Godfather