1 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,519 Speaker 1: By the time the nineteen seventies rolled around, the land 2 00:00:13,839 --> 00:00:18,199 was loud again. Children ran across the pasture from early 3 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:23,199 morning until the sun slipped behind the ridge line. Dogs 4 00:00:23,399 --> 00:00:28,039 barked at nothing in particular. Screen doors slammed and bounced 5 00:00:28,079 --> 00:00:32,399 back open. The old farm felt alive in a way 6 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,759 it hadn't felt in years, full of movement and voices 7 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:39,840 and the kind of noise that comes from people who 8 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,759 believe they are safe. Will watched it all from the porch. 9 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,600 He was an old man by then, now not helpless, 10 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:56,560 just worn down the honest way, the way time and 11 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:02,000 mountain weather wear a man. His back bent more than 12 00:01:02,039 --> 00:01:07,239 it used to. His steps were careful now and deliberate, 13 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,359 but his eyes were still sharp, and they drifted to 14 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:19,959 the same place they always had the woods. The land 15 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,400 had been in Will's family for more than a hundred years. 16 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,920 He knew every fence line, every low place where water 17 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:33,480 pooled after heavy rain, every section of pasture where the 18 00:01:33,519 --> 00:01:37,359 grass grew darker because the soil had more than it should. 19 00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:41,480 He also knew which parts of the property were better 20 00:01:41,519 --> 00:01:46,799 respected from a distance. That knowledge didn't come from guesswork. 21 00:01:48,159 --> 00:01:52,959 There were other living things on the land, not neighbors, 22 00:01:53,760 --> 00:02:01,799 not livestock, another family altogether. The parents had a word 23 00:02:01,799 --> 00:02:07,159 for them. They called them the bushmen. That name came later, 24 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:15,520 long after Will first understood that he wasn't alone. When 25 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,319 Will was a teenager, there was only one a presence 26 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:24,759 in the woods behind the farm, one figure, one watcher, 27 00:02:26,319 --> 00:02:30,400 jet black from head to toe, so dark he didn't 28 00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:34,000 stand out against the trees, but seemed to absorb the 29 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:40,639 light around him. Will called him Zeke. There was no introduction, 30 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:46,039 no exchange. Will simply needed something to call him in 31 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:50,879 his own mind. Naming him something makes it easier to 32 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:56,400 live alongside it. Will's father wasn't much of an outdoorsman. 33 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,240 He didn't hunt and didn't spend time in the woods. 34 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,639 His interests were elsewhere, oil business dealings that took him 35 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:12,639 away from the farm more often than not. Compared to 36 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:17,039 many families in the area, they were comfortably well off, 37 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,159 but Will never thought of himself as wealthy. He liked 38 00:03:24,199 --> 00:03:28,879 dirt under his nails, He liked physical work. He liked 39 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,879 waking up sore and going to bed tired. Hunting interested him, 40 00:03:35,599 --> 00:03:40,319 even though he wasn't especially good at it. Some seasons 41 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:45,360 he brought home dear other seasons he didn't. Living off 42 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,479 the land wasn't about winning. Every time Will was an 43 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,199 only son, his parents indulged him in ways they didn't 44 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:00,319 always understand. When he pushed to bring livestock on to 45 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:06,919 the property, chickens first, then goats, then cattle, they went 46 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:11,240 along with it. They didn't need to, but they loved 47 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,199 their boy, and the family was tight knit. Zeke appeared 48 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:22,839 during those years, not suddenly, not dramatically. Will noticed him 49 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,759 the way you notice weather moving in tree breaks that 50 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:33,600 didn't sound like wind, sounds that stopped when Will stopped, 51 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:40,160 a heavy presence and pressure between the shoulders that told 52 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,879 him he was being watched. At first, Will tested it. 53 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,800 He'd stop suddenly when walking the fence line, the woods 54 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:56,240 would go quiet. He'd turned back toward the house and 55 00:04:56,319 --> 00:05:01,519 feel the tension ease. Over time, he learned where not 56 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:07,279 to go, where paths were tolerated, and which places were 57 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:14,519 best left alone. Then one evening, just before dusk, Will 58 00:05:14,639 --> 00:05:21,000 saw him clearly. Zike stood just inside the trees, broad 59 00:05:21,399 --> 00:05:29,800 and motionless, watching Will froze. Zik didn't move. They stayed 60 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,480 that way long enough for Will's legs to start shaking. 61 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:39,759 Then Zik turned and stepped back into the woods, and 62 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:45,560 that was it. Once you see something like that, really 63 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:48,879 see it, you don't spend the rest of your life 64 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:55,720 pretending it didn't happen. You adjust, you learn, you survive. 65 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:03,879 Will met Louise not long after. She was a woman 66 00:06:04,639 --> 00:06:10,639 of humble means, practical, grounded, strong in a way that 67 00:06:10,759 --> 00:06:18,279 didn't announce itself. Will nearly fought Cecil the Vagrant for 68 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:23,279 her honor once, long before the axe ever came into play. 69 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:29,360 Cecil had put his hands where they didn't belong, and 70 00:06:29,519 --> 00:06:36,879 Will stepped in without hesitation. Louise noticed that they married 71 00:06:37,079 --> 00:06:42,120 when Will was barely out of his teens. Louise moved 72 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,040 into the large farmhouse with Will and his parents. That 73 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,680 wasn't unusual at the time. It made sense. The land 74 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:55,079 was big and the family was close. Everyone had a roll. 75 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:01,279 Louise took to farm life easily. She learned the rhythm 76 00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:08,560 of the place, morning chores, evening quiet, which animals spooked easily, 77 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,759 which parts of the property felt heavy even in daylight. 78 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:20,720 She noticed things before Will ever spoke of them, sounds 79 00:07:20,759 --> 00:07:25,199 at night that didn't match the wind, dogs that refused 80 00:07:25,199 --> 00:07:30,279 to cross certain spots the way. Will paused before entering 81 00:07:30,279 --> 00:07:35,639 the woods. Even when he didn't say why, she didn't 82 00:07:35,639 --> 00:07:40,839 press him. She learned, like Will, had to pay attention. 83 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,800 Cecil drifted into the nearby town like a bad habit, 84 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:55,199 a vagrant, a drunk, a thief, a man who treated 85 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:59,600 women like they didn't matter, and acted confused when people 86 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:05,439 got angry about it. He was accused of plenty, but 87 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:11,040 nothing ever stuck. There wasn't much law round and what 88 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:17,600 there was. Arrived late and left early one afternoon. Will 89 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,759 saw Cecil grab a woman in a way that crossed 90 00:08:20,759 --> 00:08:28,040 a line. Will confronted him. The argument escalated quickly. Cecil 91 00:08:28,079 --> 00:08:33,879 thrived on chaos, but Will surprised him and himself by 92 00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:38,120 stopping it before it turned violent. He backed off and 93 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,759 walked away, not because he was afraid, but because he 94 00:08:42,879 --> 00:08:48,679 believed trouble multiplied when you fed it. Less than an 95 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:55,200 hour later, near dusk, Cecil followed Will Hulm. Will heard 96 00:08:55,279 --> 00:09:02,039 him first, heavy footsteps behind him, muttering, then shouting, then 97 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:09,080 the unmistakable sound of a metal cutting air. Cecil had 98 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:10,519 an axe. 99 00:09:10,759 --> 00:09:11,519 Speaker 2: Will ran. 100 00:09:13,039 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: Down the hill away from the house, away from help. 101 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:24,360 Cecil chased him into the woods, swinging wildly, missing Will 102 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:29,879 by inches. Screaming like a man who already decided nothing 103 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:35,399 mattered any more. Will crossed a line he never crossed. 104 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:41,000 He ran into the deep woods, the place he respected 105 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:48,120 enough to leave alone. Unbeknownst to either man, Zeke saw everything. 106 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:54,440 Two humans crashing into his woods at dusk, one acting 107 00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:59,879 like a predator, was a problem. When Cecil swung again 108 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:07,679 and missed, Zeke decided a stump root ball still attached, 109 00:10:08,399 --> 00:10:11,679 came through the air with a force that didn't belong 110 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,919 in a human world. Cecil never got up. There was 111 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:23,799 no struggle, no second chance. Zeke didn't posture, he didn't 112 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:31,600 threaten Will. He watched him, and Will, young, shaking alive, 113 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:37,159 did the only thing that made sense. He buried Cecil 114 00:10:37,519 --> 00:10:41,759 under the root ball, deep enough that the woods swallowed 115 00:10:41,759 --> 00:10:48,480 the truth he never told anyone. That night created something 116 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:58,480 that lasted, not friendship, not trust, an understanding. Years passed. 117 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:05,279 Will left food quietly. Zeke left deer legs, sometimes a 118 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:11,919 hole deer. Over time, they learned small signals, a raised hand, 119 00:11:12,639 --> 00:11:20,000 a pause, a direction pointed and then avoided. Zeke protected 120 00:11:20,039 --> 00:11:24,679 livestock when he could. Will repaired fences where he knew 121 00:11:24,799 --> 00:11:31,399 they mattered. They didn't share a language they didn't need one. 122 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,480 Zeke wasn't alone forever. That was when Will started using 123 00:11:36,519 --> 00:11:41,399 the word bushman. The land around the farm was thick 124 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,440 with low brush and tangled growth, and the way the 125 00:11:45,519 --> 00:11:52,759 younger ones moved low, fast, weaving through foliage reminded Will 126 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:57,519 of something he'd read years earlier about a tribe in 127 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:02,879 South Africa, people who moved through bush country in ways 128 00:12:03,159 --> 00:12:11,200 outsiders couldn't follow. Bushman. The name stuck once Zeke had 129 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:16,720 sons of his own. By the nineteen seventies, Zeke had 130 00:12:16,759 --> 00:12:23,879 a family, sons, and a female who appeared only occasionally. 131 00:12:25,399 --> 00:12:29,799 She was smaller than the male's, muscular but not bulky. 132 00:12:30,879 --> 00:12:36,840 She kept her distance from Will, almost meek around him. 133 00:12:37,039 --> 00:12:43,279 Zeke's face held an unsettling balance, an almost perfect blend 134 00:12:43,919 --> 00:12:48,559 of man and ape that lingered in Will's mind long 135 00:12:49,159 --> 00:12:55,559 after first sight. A heavy, protruding brow shadowed deep set 136 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:02,360 eyes that carried an intelligence impossible to his lips were 137 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:08,120 wider than a man's, thick and expressive, pulling back at 138 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,960 times to reveal large, blocky teeth that looked built for 139 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:18,200 crushing rather than chewing. Yet beneath the brute structure sat 140 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:24,080 a very human nose framed by coarse facial hair. A 141 00:13:24,159 --> 00:13:29,480 full beard covered his jaw and cheeks, stopping short beneath 142 00:13:29,519 --> 00:13:34,480 the nostrils, leaving no true mustache to soften his expression. 143 00:13:35,919 --> 00:13:42,159 His skin was strikingly dark, deep rich, almost jet black, 144 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:49,200 darker than any of his offspring. The children bore similar features, 145 00:13:49,279 --> 00:13:55,240 but their skin tones ranged wildly, from nearly pale to 146 00:13:55,360 --> 00:14:00,679 shades far lighter than Zeke's own. The female stood apart. 147 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:07,600 Her hair carried a cinnamon hue, her complexion lighter, her 148 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:13,799 face marked with unmistakable human qualities, though covered in hair. 149 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:22,720 Her femininity was undeniable, curved, proportionate, with breasts and a grace. 150 00:14:22,919 --> 00:14:28,440 The males lacked. Their bodies were built differently, the males 151 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:34,679 with long, bulging arms, massive chests, no visible necks, heads 152 00:14:34,759 --> 00:14:40,639 that rested directly on their shoulders. Will wondered briefly and 153 00:14:40,759 --> 00:14:47,120 uncomfortably if the female was more evolved, but such thoughts 154 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:52,480 drifted far beyond his understanding, and yet Will understood to 155 00:14:52,600 --> 00:15:00,399 them he wasn't prey or threat. He was alien. The 156 00:15:00,519 --> 00:15:06,320 oldest son was cinnamon haired, massive, over seven and a 157 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:10,480 half feet tall, but still a full foot shorter than Zeke. 158 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:18,879 But dangerous in ways the others weren't. Will called him Red. 159 00:15:19,799 --> 00:15:23,399 Red blended into the woods like nothing Will had ever seen. 160 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:28,519 If the light hit just right, he could stand still 161 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:38,759 and vanish completely. Red was bloodthirsty. He killed chickens, goats, deer, 162 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:45,360 left to rot where they fell. It wasn't hunger. It 163 00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:52,960 was pleasure, wasteful, hateful. Once Will came home after being 164 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:56,639 gone most of the day and found a goat slaughtered, 165 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:03,240 Its blood smeared across the barn. Windows inside, blood streaked 166 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:11,320 one wall. Louise had been inside. She was terrified. Red 167 00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:16,919 was in his prime, then acting out, perhaps looking for 168 00:16:17,039 --> 00:16:22,159 a mate, perhaps trying to intimidate the only human female 169 00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:27,919 he knew. Will and Zeke argued through gesture and broken words, 170 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:34,080 and a fight followed between Red and Zeke. It wasn't quiet. 171 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,559 Red was cast out. As far as anyone knows, he 172 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:47,600 never returned. Will was relieved. The other son, the darker one, 173 00:16:48,159 --> 00:16:55,559 was quieter, more like Zeke, a watcher. By the nineteen seventies, 174 00:16:55,919 --> 00:17:04,480 Bigfoot was no longer unheard of movies television in search 175 00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:11,000 of aired episodes about sasquatch, the public was becoming aware. 176 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,640 So when a little girl came running through the pasture 177 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:19,519 one early morning, screaming that something tall and dark had 178 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:25,640 chased her. The family was terrified. She never went outside 179 00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:34,440 alone again. Doors locked earlier, windows checked twice, voices dropped 180 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:41,440 at night. They didn't know. The particular group on Will's 181 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:49,519 farm was harmless except for Red, and Red was gone. 182 00:17:49,799 --> 00:17:55,319 Then the deer appeared, one on the porch, another beside 183 00:17:55,319 --> 00:18:04,200 the house. Carefully placed. Will understood an apology. Will, in 184 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:09,920 his elderly state, went down the hill one morning carrying melons. 185 00:18:10,279 --> 00:18:15,799 Zeke met him and carried Will back. No one's ever 186 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:22,079 gonna believe this, Will muttered. Louise believed she was Will's wife. 187 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:28,079 One snowy morning, she watched Zeke push the car free 188 00:18:28,279 --> 00:18:34,039 out of a snowbank. She cried, then nearly laughed at dinner. 189 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:43,400 Louise died the following year. Zeke visited her grave. Will 190 00:18:43,519 --> 00:18:50,119 lived five more years Before he passed. He told his 191 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:58,559 son everything. His son had grown up privileged, educated, uncomfortable 192 00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:03,160 with dirt and work, but happy to enjoy the benefits 193 00:19:03,839 --> 00:19:13,519 money inheritance status. His wife wanted out. One daughter had 194 00:19:13,559 --> 00:19:19,160 been chased. That was enough. Once Will was gone, the 195 00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:25,400 land was sold one hundred and ten years gone, the 196 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:32,079 woods remained. The new owner says, A tall, dark visitor 197 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:39,240 comes to the graves at dawn or dusk, and sometimes 198 00:19:39,279 --> 00:19:44,720 a deer appears on the porch. Maybe one day he'll 199 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,759 walk down the hill just to pay attention, because the 200 00:19:49,799 --> 00:20:03,079 bushman never left. Thanks for listening to Bigfoots Wilderness. I 201 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,599 hope you enjoyed tonight's story about the bushmen that never left, 202 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,720 one of those quiet, unsettling encounters that stays with you 203 00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:17,160 long after the fire dies down. Stick around, because right 204 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,519 after this, we're going to play a short interview with 205 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,359 Kurt Bradford where he talks about his book, Sasquatch Way 206 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:30,640 Off the Beaten Path, a grounded, first hand look at 207 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:35,799 the phenomenon that cuts through the noise. The book is 208 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,799 available now on Amazon. Just look through the search bar 209 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,759 for the title Sasquatch Way Off the Beaten Path, or 210 00:20:45,319 --> 00:20:49,559 through Kurt Bradford. I'll also leave a link in the description. 211 00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:56,200 Have a great night, everyone. I have not gotten your 212 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,279 book yet, but I was looking at it on Amazon. 213 00:21:00,279 --> 00:21:03,400 You know, it's really interesting. Finding you on Amazon is 214 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,799 so much easier than finding like a cable for an iPhone. 215 00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:13,720 I typed in Kurt Bradford Sasquatch book Boom two books 216 00:21:13,759 --> 00:21:20,319 came right up. That was funny. Yeah, so it's called 217 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,400 Sasquatch Way Off the Beaten Path, Is that right? 218 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? 219 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,920 Speaker 3: It kind of you know, the title my kind of 220 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,920 dovetails with what you and I talked about it last 221 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,400 time you interviewed me. It's that, you know, it's not 222 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,319 really it's you know, the the the bigger mystery is 223 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,440 not you know, does it exist. The bigger you know question, 224 00:21:38,519 --> 00:21:41,160 the bigger ministry is like, why hasn't it been you know, 225 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:43,880 brought out in the open to scientists and you know, 226 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,960 scientific perusal and everything. That's that's the real that's the 227 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,720 really big question that people are trying to get answers to. 228 00:21:50,839 --> 00:21:52,319 Speaker 2: I think, and I think it's. 229 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,000 Speaker 3: A little uh, you kind of go af to go 230 00:21:54,079 --> 00:21:55,880 off the beaten path a little bit, you know, in 231 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,519 terms of you know, what you. 232 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 2: Think is real versus what is actually going on. 233 00:22:02,319 --> 00:22:02,519 Speaker 3: Yeah. 234 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:07,079 Speaker 1: Yeah, so let me ask you this because I'll get 235 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,079 got a couple of questions for you. And and I 236 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,680 know that when people read a book, you got to 237 00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:14,400 kind of break down at least, So I'm writing a 238 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,240 book too. But it has nothing to do with Bigfoot. 239 00:22:16,279 --> 00:22:20,599 It's about it's about my younger life and how my 240 00:22:21,519 --> 00:22:25,359 how I lived you know, among different family members and 241 00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,880 you know, grew up in in one neighborhood but lived 242 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,839 in another neighborhood and had friends and just kind of 243 00:22:31,839 --> 00:22:33,960 a gen x type thing. But it's really uh, it's 244 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:38,240 really fun putting it together. And everybody asks me. Family 245 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,640 members asked me questions about my book, and it's very 246 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:46,000 helpful to me. I think to to uh to understand 247 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,680 more about your book by getting questions about your book. 248 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,519 And this this one, Uh, I've got a few questions here. 249 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:53,920 I just wanted to ask you. And one of the 250 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,359 questions was I thought was a good question I wrote 251 00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:01,319 this down, was how has your approach to sasquatch research 252 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,759 changed since your earlier work, since your first book. 253 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 3: Well, one of the one of the big things was 254 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,960 there was a change of venue. And I talk about 255 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,079 it early in the book, and that is I was 256 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:17,880 exploring a national forest, uh well, Lammette National Forest in 257 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,759 central Oregon. So that was where this this ancient forest 258 00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:24,680 had Opal Creek center was It was one of the 259 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:27,440 biggest you know, stands of old growth that left in 260 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:32,000 the Central Cascades, Central Cascade Mountains of Oregon, and I 261 00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:34,440 went out there and that's when you know, I had 262 00:23:34,839 --> 00:23:36,759 you know, I heard things that I couldn't explain. I 263 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:38,880 was out in the middle of nowhere, you know, and 264 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,880 so I'm out there by myself, uga in. 265 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,839 Speaker 2: So that was that was an interesting area. I loved it. 266 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 3: I could have spent the rest of my life exploring 267 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,680 that area and going camping. 268 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,799 Speaker 2: In these huge trees, you know, I mean, which is 269 00:23:50,079 --> 00:23:52,720 that's my favorite type of habitats, the old growth forest. 270 00:23:53,279 --> 00:23:55,519 Speaker 3: But what happened a couple of years ago is there 271 00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:59,359 was there was some forest fires. One one of those 272 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,680 forest fires had started up and then it went down 273 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,359 and it was controlled, and then it came back again 274 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,599 and the Beechy Creek fire, there's a Beechy Creek that 275 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,400 runs through there. There's a Beechy Creek fire came in 276 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,200 and just gutted the entire old growth valley. I mean, 277 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:16,599 it's it was such I mean, just devastating loss. You 278 00:24:16,599 --> 00:24:19,279 you're gonna have to wait four hundred years for the 279 00:24:19,319 --> 00:24:22,000 forest to be or more, you know, before the forest 280 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,000 gets to the way it was. 281 00:24:23,599 --> 00:24:25,880 Speaker 2: So that was that was really hard. Because that is 282 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,799 one of the most beautiful places on Earth. 283 00:24:28,759 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 3: I was at an area called Sawmill Falls, and I 284 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,680 didn't really reveal that just for privacy, for you know, 285 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,240 whatever bigfoots were in there and myself and everything. 286 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 2: But but now I can tell everyone. 287 00:24:39,319 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I was near that that those false Sawmill Falls 288 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,759 there and just a beautiful area and that's where things 289 00:24:46,759 --> 00:24:49,240 would go on at night. But when that burned out, 290 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,480 I mean there's nothing left. I mean there's a few 291 00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:54,119 big trees left, and you got other you know, but 292 00:24:54,799 --> 00:24:57,039 until it burned out. So I said, Okay, I've got 293 00:24:57,079 --> 00:24:59,839 to go someplace else here. So the question was where 294 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,640 I co And my buddy Tony Tamberella, who I wrote 295 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,400 about in the first book and in this one, he 296 00:25:05,519 --> 00:25:08,559 was already very, very familiar with the Coast Range. He 297 00:25:08,599 --> 00:25:12,880 spent probably forty years in the Coast Range exploring, and 298 00:25:13,559 --> 00:25:15,799 one of the things he was looking for was this 299 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,519 lost Indian gold mine. 300 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,039 Speaker 2: So you know, he was very motive motivated to be 301 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:21,480 out there. 302 00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 3: But back in the mid nineties, when he saw a 303 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,039 set of tracks in the early morning, snow that he 304 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,960 was out there. You know, he and a buddy were 305 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,759 out there in the middle of nowhere. It really changed 306 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:34,000 his perspective, and I said, hey, Tony, I was like, 307 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:34,920 you know, we've. 308 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 2: Been checking the lamb att for us. 309 00:25:36,039 --> 00:25:37,839 Speaker 3: Now I think we're gonna need to start looking over 310 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,799 at the Coast Range, where a buddy of his on 311 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,039 numerous occasion had seen sasquatches in the Coast Range and 312 00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:47,279 some of the things that I don't know if I 313 00:25:47,279 --> 00:25:49,000 don't know if this story has ever been you know, 314 00:25:49,039 --> 00:25:53,240 witnessed by someone, but there was there was an elk 315 00:25:53,519 --> 00:25:55,799 that had been killed, that was up in this tree, 316 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,200 and it had been hoisted up there like eight feet 317 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,079 you know, off the round into the you know this 318 00:26:01,279 --> 00:26:04,640 why this tree, and it's like holy moly, you know, 319 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,359 it's like a cougar cannot lift, you know, cannot carry 320 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,000 an adult elk up a tree that high and keep 321 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,880 it there. Smaller animals. Yeah. So anyway, I knew for 322 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,200 a long time that the Coast Range there's not a 323 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,839 lot of people who go there other than the forest. 324 00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:25,480 The forest, you know, the folks who look, you know, 325 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,599 tould get the timber out of there. So the forest 326 00:26:27,599 --> 00:26:29,880 industry is there, but in terms of just people to 327 00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,400 explore that area, it doesn't not many people go back. 328 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,759 Speaker 1: There, I can imagine. So, so it's been quite a 329 00:26:36,839 --> 00:26:40,519 few years now that you've been in the field. What 330 00:26:40,559 --> 00:26:45,319 do you think that people misunderstand mostly about the subject. 331 00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 2: Well, I think one of the things is like, I 332 00:26:47,759 --> 00:26:49,920 think people are like, why don't you just. 333 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,519 Speaker 3: You know, did you find some footprints in the snow? 334 00:26:53,759 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 2: Follow the footprints, will take it to the bigfoot shoot 335 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:57,279 want to bring it back. 336 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 3: While things are a little more complicated than that, you know, 337 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,000 one of the things you got to consider is in 338 00:27:03,039 --> 00:27:06,599 the coast range where the Pacific Ocean moderates the temperature, 339 00:27:07,039 --> 00:27:09,279 a lot of times at the lower elevations there as 340 00:27:09,279 --> 00:27:11,039 snow snow at all during the year, it's all going 341 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,839 to be rain precipitation. So I think what a lot 342 00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:16,359 of the Bigfoots do in part of the season, at 343 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,440 least Mike in the in the wintertime is they would 344 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:24,160 descend to like areas of elevation. But it's just not 345 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,440 as simple as like finding tracks and following them. There 346 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:28,039 was there was a famous set of tracks I don't 347 00:27:28,039 --> 00:27:31,599 know if you're probably familiar with outside of Spokane, Washington 348 00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,400 that went through the mountains there and they found these 349 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,440 tracks and this guy followed it for miles and finally 350 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:40,079 he got to this place where he just couldn't climb 351 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,079 anymore up on this mountain ridge. And it's like it's 352 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:45,480 not as easy as it sounds to try and just oh, 353 00:27:45,559 --> 00:27:46,880 let's track one down right now. 354 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,519 Speaker 2: I mean it's it's a little more than that. It's 355 00:27:49,519 --> 00:27:50,599 a little more involved than that. 356 00:27:50,759 --> 00:27:53,559 Speaker 1: You know, wasn't that that, wasn't that the tracks that 357 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,079 he let He walked for so long that the weather 358 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,039 began to change, and actually he had to give up because, 359 00:27:59,079 --> 00:28:01,799 like you said, it was he went into terrain that 360 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,400 was too too difficult for him to traverse. But the 361 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,799 weather also changed, so he had to just kind of stop. 362 00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:10,519 I mean, he followed this thing like you said, for Miles. 363 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and and Mike too, Like you know, like 364 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,039 the Olympic project out there in the Olympic Natural Forest, 365 00:28:17,079 --> 00:28:20,640 Olympic National Park where those where those folks found, you know, 366 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,240 over twenty sasquatch nests out there. 367 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: You are you familiar with that as well? 368 00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,599 Speaker 1: I have heard bits and pieces of that. It seems 369 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,039 like everybody's jumping in on that one, or had been 370 00:28:31,079 --> 00:28:33,599 for a couple of years. And and I guess since 371 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,440 doctor Meldrum's death. I kind of stopped following that that 372 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:41,839 little story, but it can it continues. It's still ongoing. 373 00:28:42,359 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. You know. 374 00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 3: The one point I wanted to make about that is like, 375 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:49,680 like they had, it was very difficult to get back 376 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:52,000 to where they found those nets. It's not something that 377 00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,240 the average hiker is, no, you know, let's climb up 378 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,319 this rock face, let's go through this, you know this, 379 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,319 you know this, follow this trail. 380 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,519 Speaker 2: It was very difficult going to get back in there. 381 00:29:01,599 --> 00:29:02,160 And it's like. 382 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 3: That's that's like a good That's a perfect example of 383 00:29:05,759 --> 00:29:08,160 way off the beaten path. I mean Olympic National Park, 384 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:13,039 the Olympic Peninsula, the Olympic National Forest, all all that 385 00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:16,319 federal land plus private land. I mean it is it's 386 00:29:16,359 --> 00:29:19,079 a huge area and not all of it's easy to 387 00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:21,920 get to. So there, you know, they were on a 388 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,640 path that most people don't take, and then they went 389 00:29:24,839 --> 00:29:27,400 way off that path where no one even goes. They 390 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,720 got off the path and went back in to a 391 00:29:29,759 --> 00:29:32,400 remote area and found that. So sometimes I guess you know, 392 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:33,720 that's what I'm saying is a new book, you have 393 00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:35,480 to go way off the beaten path. You're going to 394 00:29:35,519 --> 00:29:38,759 find something. So not always, not always, but sometimes you know. 395 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely. So let me ask you this because you know, 396 00:29:42,079 --> 00:29:46,640 I do a podcast that and I do basically individual 397 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:54,400 stories encounters. So do individual encounters matter less to you 398 00:29:54,559 --> 00:29:57,960 now than say, in the long term patterns? Like do 399 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:02,720 you think that individual encounter are you know? I mean, 400 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,359 do you do you actually go off of individual encounters? 401 00:30:05,359 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 2: Do you do? 402 00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:08,079 Speaker 1: You do you take stories as you're as you're going 403 00:30:08,079 --> 00:30:10,839 through your your journey? 404 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I definitely. You know. 405 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 3: The funny thing, Mike is that's a good question because initially, 406 00:30:17,519 --> 00:30:19,160 you know, when I was a kid and start reading 407 00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:23,319 about these encounters that people had had, you know, I read, 408 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,279 I read, you know, hundreds of hundreds of them, and 409 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,279 the people are all, you know, staying, you know, basically 410 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:30,440 the same thing. 411 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 2: And so to me, it's like, you know, I mean, 412 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,519 the way the way science. 413 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,039 Speaker 3: Is and the way the public is is like, we're 414 00:30:38,079 --> 00:30:41,079 not gonna believe you know, you guys just don't even 415 00:30:41,119 --> 00:30:44,079 talk to me. You you find me some bones, your teeth, evidence, 416 00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:46,200 and then come talk to me, you know. And it's like, 417 00:30:46,319 --> 00:30:49,680 you know, science now, the scientists or in the public, 418 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:52,920 I mean, well especially the scientists. But they don't care 419 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,640 about video, they don't care about photographs, they don't care 420 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,880 about tracks, they don't care about individual encounters, they don't 421 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,480 care about the noises these things make, you know, So 422 00:31:01,519 --> 00:31:03,640 it's like all this stuff. 423 00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:06,599 Speaker 2: To try and you know, affect change in this whole. 424 00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:09,839 You know, in this whole, you know this mortgage board. 425 00:31:10,119 --> 00:31:12,839 Speaker 3: I mean, if you the only thing that matters, you know, 426 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,839 to science is like you bring a jaw bone or 427 00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,680 teeth or a skull or you know, a body bones 428 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,880 from the body of this thing and then. 429 00:31:20,799 --> 00:31:24,079 Speaker 2: We'll talk, you know. So it's very frustrating because I 430 00:31:24,119 --> 00:31:24,400 mean I. 431 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 3: Knew from an early age when I started reading these encounters, say, hey, 432 00:31:28,519 --> 00:31:32,160 these people are seeing something real. The psychological component of 433 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,599 how they react to what they see is one of 434 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,680 shock a lot of times. So you know, all those 435 00:31:39,759 --> 00:31:42,160 encounters are fascinating, but I've read so many of them, 436 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:43,319 I don't really care. 437 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 2: You are right, I don't really care about them as much. 438 00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:48,000 Speaker 3: When I went out into the coast range the last time, 439 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:50,440 I don't don't care about seeing one. I don't care 440 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,559 about tracks, and I did find tracks for the first 441 00:31:52,599 --> 00:31:55,400 time in my life. But you know, if I don't 442 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,920 come back with bones or teeth, forget it. And so 443 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:00,960 to me, it's like, you know, it's it's a losing battle. 444 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,480 But okay, all right, if you want proof, let me 445 00:32:03,519 --> 00:32:05,079 try and get some proof and then we'll talk. 446 00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:08,319 Speaker 2: So it's not you. 447 00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:11,559 Speaker 3: Know, all the other things that are now kind of discounted. 448 00:32:11,599 --> 00:32:14,920 And you know too, the thing about the artificial intelligence you've. 449 00:32:14,759 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 2: Probably seen online where. 450 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 3: Like one YouTube where the number of these different you know, 451 00:32:21,519 --> 00:32:24,960 sightings and pictures and whatnot and video clips or car 452 00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:27,839 you know, are surfacing and it's like, you know, ten 453 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,079 times as much stuff was there when before the. 454 00:32:31,079 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 2: AI, So now you can't even tell what's real or fake. 455 00:32:33,759 --> 00:32:36,079 Speaker 3: You can have some of these, you know, trail cameras 456 00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:39,160 they're actually recording a Bigfoot, but it's like now with 457 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,319 the AI, you can't tell the difference between a real 458 00:32:41,359 --> 00:32:44,000 clip and something that's made up. So that's really muddying 459 00:32:44,039 --> 00:32:44,720 the war, you know. 460 00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: I agree. Actually, the only thing I find artificial intelligence 461 00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,880 good for is helping me create an image for a 462 00:32:53,039 --> 00:32:56,319 story that I'm telling. I can't draw that well, I 463 00:32:56,359 --> 00:32:59,400 can't paint. I don't have that capability. In the past, 464 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,440 I used to have to google to death just to 465 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:03,599 find an image to go with my story now and 466 00:33:03,599 --> 00:33:06,839 can use AI to make an image for me. But 467 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,720 everything else about AI to me is wrong. Just like 468 00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:16,279 you said, there's there, it's doctoring videos, it's it's creating videos. 469 00:33:16,519 --> 00:33:20,319 People are quoting them as lost footage. It's completely a 470 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,240 hoax and it's being used in the wrong way. But 471 00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:26,200 everybody's you know, they're they're trying to have fun with it, 472 00:33:26,279 --> 00:33:28,960 and they're also trying to get clicks, and they're trying 473 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,480 to make money off it. And that's to me, I 474 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,880 think AI is going the wrong way. And I think 475 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,440 opening opening it up to the public might might have 476 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:40,400 been a semi bad idea so quickly, because people are 477 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,079 just finding a way to profit from it, and I 478 00:33:42,079 --> 00:33:42,680 don't like that. 479 00:33:43,359 --> 00:33:45,559 Speaker 3: And it makes it hard on people who want to 480 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:49,799 be legitimately you know, taking you know, taking legitimately as 481 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,400 talking you know, the truth as they've experienced it. I mean, 482 00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:55,240 it just yeah, it just muddies the water. It's really 483 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,960 a shame. I mean, I think we're gonna have some 484 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,240 real challenges. 485 00:33:58,839 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: With this AI stuff. I don't I think I think. 486 00:34:01,559 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 3: There's already just uh in terms of fraud online and 487 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:08,320 you know, and it impinges on the big Foot story 488 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,679 too with like you said, people are out there just 489 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,199 trying to get advertising dollars by showing these different clips. 490 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:14,480 Speaker 2: You know. 491 00:34:14,519 --> 00:34:16,039 Speaker 3: The thing that makes me laugh a lot of times 492 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:18,000 is some of these clips are not just you know, 493 00:34:18,079 --> 00:34:20,400 like a you know, like a thirty second clip. I 494 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,840 mean it's like a twenty minute clip on YouTube where 495 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,519 they're talking about stuff and the whole thing is fake, 496 00:34:25,599 --> 00:34:28,599 you know, so you know, they blend the AI in 497 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:31,119 when they want to, they'll they'll give their commentary, and 498 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:33,400 it just it kind of undermines the people that are 499 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,360 you know, trying to be legitimated. 500 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,079 Speaker 1: But here's the thing. You're writing a book. You've written 501 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:40,280 a book, you've written, this is your second book. You're 502 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:45,320 telling us fresh new information and there's nothing doctored about it. 503 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,840 You know, there's no crazy uh hoaxed video or stuff 504 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:52,840 that you know people are trying to analyze to see 505 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,639 if it's real or fake. You're telling us, you know 506 00:34:56,159 --> 00:34:59,519 what you've encountered. You're giving us your information. You've you've 507 00:34:59,559 --> 00:35:01,639 put all it together in a book and a nice, 508 00:35:01,679 --> 00:35:04,559 neat book, and you're telling us a story about what 509 00:35:04,599 --> 00:35:08,199 you encountered and that's real. You know, all that other 510 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:11,840 stuff is not. And many people will fall for the 511 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:16,320 hoax stuff because they know that there is something out 512 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,280 there and they feel like this is an alibi, Like 513 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,519 look at that. You know, they don't maybe know it's 514 00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:23,000 a hoaxed video at first, but they'll they'll try to 515 00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:24,760 back it up and see that that's what I saw, 516 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:28,199 that's what that's what happened to me. And people will 517 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,199 take things out of perspective and and you know, they 518 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:35,639 get crazy about it, and we do have a kind 519 00:35:35,639 --> 00:35:39,400 of a nutty community sometimes. I think there are people 520 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,119 that believe that Bigfoot is an alien and Bigfoot is 521 00:35:43,119 --> 00:35:46,360 a this and a that, and you know, I don't 522 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,920 believe that to be true, and that people try to 523 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:52,440 do this correlation between lights in the sky and a 524 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,880 Bigfoot encounter. And I've written stories about that from what 525 00:35:58,039 --> 00:36:00,360 witnesses have said to me, and they're put trying to 526 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,239 put it together. But sometimes it just goes off the 527 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,760 deep end. And that's why I can appreciate a book 528 00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:10,159 because I can read a book and I know that 529 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,159 what I'm reading is from a reputable source. I always 530 00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:16,320 try to pick my books. I pick my fictions, and 531 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,719 I pick my nonfictions. And I look at the people 532 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,320 like the John Greens and the William Jevnings and the 533 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,920 Kurt Bradford's and the people out there that actually write 534 00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:29,960 from their research, and I like that because it backs 535 00:36:30,079 --> 00:36:32,920 up what I believe. I had my own encounter years ago, 536 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:37,239 and it was scary, but I wasn't scared at the time, 537 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,400 just because I didn't really the whole impact didn't hit 538 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,239 me at one time. It was little bits and pieces 539 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,880 and it was a lot to It was a lot 540 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,079 to take in. But you know, it's not something I 541 00:36:50,119 --> 00:36:52,159 shout from the rooftops. You know, I don't profess the 542 00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,639 whole Bigfoot thing. I don't sit there and scream Bigfoot 543 00:36:54,679 --> 00:36:57,119 is reel and get in people's faces. But I really 544 00:36:57,159 --> 00:36:59,079 do believe it is real. And if you don't want 545 00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:01,880 to believe, that's fine, But I, you know, have my 546 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,360 right to believe, and you have your right. And we're 547 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,119 all we're all trying to learn more about big football. 548 00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:10,960 We there are people out there that think that, you know, uh, 549 00:37:11,119 --> 00:37:13,360 the aliens are running the country. I mean, it's just 550 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,280 kind of crazy stuff happening right now. So it's nice 551 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,360 to get back and grounded and have a nice book 552 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:22,360 like yours. And you can find it on Amazon, right, Sasquatch, 553 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:23,760 Way Off the Beaten Path. 554 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, just the main the title of it is Sasquatching 555 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,840 and the subtitle is well Off the Beaten Death. 556 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,320 Speaker 2: Got it? 557 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: Got it? There's a there's a couple more questions, and 558 00:37:33,519 --> 00:37:36,239 I know you're you're I know you weren't feeling well, 559 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:42,559 So I'm really appreciative of your time. Has the definition 560 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,519 of evidence changed over time? 561 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:54,960 Speaker 2: I h yeah, you know, that's that's a great question. Yeah, 562 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:55,800 I think it has. 563 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,239 Speaker 3: Excuse me, you know, I think people like like Jeff 564 00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:04,440 Meldrum were like, like, let's say you get it. Let's 565 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,760 say back in the day, you got a footprint. Okay, 566 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,679 so you're in northern California. You're in there at the 567 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:13,079 time that you know, Patterson and Gimblin were down there 568 00:38:13,079 --> 00:38:16,320 in sixty seven, and they find these footprints. Okay, so 569 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,880 the footprints at first were like man. People were like, man, 570 00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:22,519 that can so easily be faked. Look, I'm gonna strap 571 00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:26,119 on some wood cutout feet, I'm gonna prants around in 572 00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:26,639 the woods. 573 00:38:26,639 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you. 574 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 3: Guys how easy it is well, you know a lot 575 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,840 of people just kind of took the naysayers for like, yeah, 576 00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,000 you know what, I guess you could put on you know, 577 00:38:35,119 --> 00:38:37,920 feed and walk around. But then come around people like 578 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,880 Jeff Meldrum, and he'll look at a footprint, you know, 579 00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,039 and he's like noticing like a hundred things I would 580 00:38:45,119 --> 00:38:47,880 never even think of, Mike, you know, and so he 581 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,000 talks about, you know, he's finding you know, and this 582 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,880 chillicut had found those the dermal ridges on the bottom. 583 00:38:53,599 --> 00:38:57,320 Speaker 2: Of the foot, the mid reflection in the middle of 584 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:58,599 the in the middle of the. 585 00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:01,119 Speaker 3: Foot as well when it goes down, as opposed to 586 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,480 pivoting on that ball of our feet like we do, 587 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:06,880 it pivots more on a more centrally located part of 588 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,840 the bottom of its foot. So and then you'll talk 589 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,199 about other things, you know, like the toast playing, you know, 590 00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,079 like the spreading of toes, the longer toes. They see 591 00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:18,719 that even in the video with Patterson. So yeah, I 592 00:39:18,719 --> 00:39:20,840 think that's a great question. And that's the only example 593 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,280 I can't really think of. But like, footprints used to 594 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,039 be ah whatever, and now you get a real scientist 595 00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:28,960 who looked at it, who specialized in anthropology and biology 596 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,320 and anatomy. He looks at it and points out all 597 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,039 these thingess like, wow, you know, why are to other 598 00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:37,039 scientists really not looking at this now? Because why is 599 00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:39,519 it only Meldrum? Why is it only Krantz? 600 00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:44,199 Speaker 2: You know? And so that's a great question, I think, 601 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:44,679 I think. 602 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,039 Speaker 3: And you know what too, Mike is like as they 603 00:39:47,079 --> 00:39:50,440 analyze even the sixty seven footage, you know, the Patterson Gimlin, 604 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,960 they're finding new things and no one you know, that 605 00:39:53,079 --> 00:39:55,840 they couldn't find before, you know, So I think I 606 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,000 think a few more scientists are getting on board, becoming 607 00:39:59,039 --> 00:40:01,320 a little more man stream, but not much. 608 00:40:01,599 --> 00:40:04,079 Speaker 1: Well, the technology has really helped a lot, right, I mean, 609 00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:07,719 we can three D print a footprint now, you can. 610 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,800 You can you can go past just the dermal ridges. 611 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,239 You can, like you said, you can see the flex 612 00:40:13,559 --> 00:40:16,960 in the footprint. You know, there's so much more that 613 00:40:17,079 --> 00:40:20,480 can be analyzed from a footprint than what they could 614 00:40:20,519 --> 00:40:21,559 do in nineteen sixty seven. 615 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 2: Right, exactly exactly what's what's. 616 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: Next for you after this book? 617 00:40:27,639 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 3: I tell you, Mike, I don't know how many expeditions 618 00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:32,000 that have left in me, you know, I know this 619 00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:34,920 late spring, early summer I'm going out to the coast 620 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,519 raging in with Tony. But for me, you know, I mean, 621 00:40:38,599 --> 00:40:40,400 I'm not bragging about this, but I'm I mean, I'm 622 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,159 the real deal, and the real deal sometimes is boring, 623 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,119 you know. It's like going out there and looking and 624 00:40:46,159 --> 00:40:49,280 not finding stuff or and I'm not trying to convince, 625 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:51,079 you know, I'm not trying to convince people in the 626 00:40:51,079 --> 00:40:53,840 book that the Bigfoot's real. I just want to convey 627 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,760 the story. But I think once Bigfoot is proven to 628 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,239 be real, I think people will look back on this 629 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,880 story and see, uh, you know that's pretty interesting. You 630 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:04,960 know what, Well, this is what we were people were 631 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:10,000 thinking ahead of this confirmation. And now yeah, so you know, 632 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,000 some think about. 633 00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:15,760 Speaker 1: An offbeat question that I was talking with my son about. 634 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,639 And again my son is in his teens, right, so 635 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,039 he you know, I was just telling him about talking 636 00:41:22,039 --> 00:41:25,199 to you and and I guess he just likes to 637 00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,719 get under my skin, says, uh so what so, Yeah, 638 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:31,960 he believes in Bigfoot, right, but does he believe in 639 00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:35,559 dog Man? Does he believe in the Locknus Monster? 640 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:36,360 Speaker 2: Like? 641 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,159 Speaker 1: What what does he what else does he believe in? 642 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,119 Or does he only believe in bigfoot. I figured i'd 643 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,960 throw that question back at you. 644 00:41:44,159 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 3: Oh what about what should you you know? 645 00:41:48,840 --> 00:41:49,199 Speaker 2: With me? 646 00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,199 Speaker 3: I mean, we're all jaundice, we're all we all come 647 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,400 from a different background. 648 00:41:55,199 --> 00:41:55,440 Speaker 2: You know. 649 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,159 Speaker 3: I'm a Christian, and I think that affects the way 650 00:41:58,159 --> 00:42:01,079 I look at this. But also, I was a science major, 651 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:06,480 you know, I majored in biology on undergrad and you know, 652 00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:10,360 I think, hmm, I think that you know, this, what's 653 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,079 going on in this country and what's going around the 654 00:42:12,119 --> 00:42:12,800 world now, is. 655 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:14,519 Speaker 2: Like this spiritual warfare, you know. 656 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,880 Speaker 3: Okay, So I'm not I'm not trying to get into 657 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,280 the you know, into a religious discussion here, but I 658 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,400 think I think you have to be open minded to 659 00:42:24,519 --> 00:42:28,360 at least looking at for example, how many people see something, 660 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,760 you know, I mean, like this chupakabra thing. I mean, 661 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,320 I don't know. This is a perfect example. I have 662 00:42:33,519 --> 00:42:36,360 no idea what this chupacabra thing is. I don't know 663 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:39,159 much about it. I haven't researched it, but I think 664 00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:42,400 it does at least warn't looking at it. Because so 665 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,599 many people are saying they're seeing these things and where 666 00:42:45,639 --> 00:42:48,400 they're seeing it. You know, what's the density of sightings? 667 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,719 How reliable are these people? You know? So I would 668 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,039 say to like with the Bigfoot thing, I say in 669 00:42:54,119 --> 00:42:56,159 the book, you know you basically you want to keep 670 00:42:56,159 --> 00:42:59,239 an open mind about it. You want to you know, 671 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:03,800 I'm not here to you know, interrupt with someone's religious beliefs, 672 00:43:04,079 --> 00:43:06,440 but I think you do need you do need science. 673 00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:09,639 I think you do need the understanding that everything was 674 00:43:09,639 --> 00:43:12,800 made by our creators. Have those So I would say, 675 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,840 keep an open mind, but also get it. Find out 676 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:17,719 as much as you can about it if you really 677 00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,400 want to, spend time with it to try and verify 678 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:21,239 in your own mind. 679 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 2: And you know, Mike, I've gone out there. 680 00:43:23,079 --> 00:43:25,679 Speaker 3: I've been looking for this for the big phenomenon for 681 00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:29,079 twenty five years, you know, and you know there's definitely 682 00:43:29,079 --> 00:43:31,079 something to it. But that's why I kind of in 683 00:43:31,079 --> 00:43:33,039 the book say, you know what, we're not just off 684 00:43:33,039 --> 00:43:35,360 the beaten path, well way off the beaten path. Don't 685 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:40,719 be you know, don't be afraid to pursue more information 686 00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,760 on things. Keep an open mind, but also know too 687 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,719 that you know you have to stay you have to 688 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:51,159 stay balanced in your thinking. You just because someone says something, 689 00:43:51,679 --> 00:43:54,440 you know, it depends on a lot of different factors 690 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,280 whether you want to listen to that person, because every 691 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,920 person you talk to is taking you down a different path. 692 00:44:00,079 --> 00:44:02,599 You know, you can't go I can't personally go out 693 00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:05,840 there and have all these sightings out like, Okay, let's 694 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,199 talk to you know, Fred Willis, Okay, let's go out 695 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:08,639 to the side. 696 00:44:08,679 --> 00:44:09,400 Speaker 2: He saw it there. 697 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,480 Speaker 3: No, I mean I've never seen one, but I mean 698 00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,199 everything around it though, points to something being there. So 699 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,519 I would say keep an open mind, but also verify 700 00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:22,519 as much as you can before you spend too much 701 00:44:22,519 --> 00:44:23,280 time with something. 702 00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,159 Speaker 1: And not only that, it's open to interpretation. Like you know, 703 00:44:27,199 --> 00:44:30,599 when you read all these old newspaper clippings about a 704 00:44:30,639 --> 00:44:34,159 hairy man, a wild man of the woods, right there 705 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:40,440 could very well be crazy people that were living in 706 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,599 the woods, half starved to death after or before a war. 707 00:44:47,400 --> 00:44:50,760 And then and you know, you could have interpreted as 708 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:54,719 a man. Some people could interpret it as something more 709 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:58,920 than a man. You know, maybe the physical description didn't 710 00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,239 really match a man, but they didn't know another word 711 00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,840 for a man, so they called it man, you know, 712 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,079 the lockness monster. I was reading something the other day 713 00:45:07,119 --> 00:45:09,119 and I'm not a big like I kind of stick 714 00:45:09,159 --> 00:45:11,480 to the big Foot topic, because I really I don't 715 00:45:11,519 --> 00:45:13,719 know what to think about dog Man, which I think 716 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,719 is you know, kind of its own thing. It's kind 717 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,880 of weird. But you know, the werewolf the dog Man, 718 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:22,119 I don't know. I don't have a real opinion on that. 719 00:45:22,199 --> 00:45:25,800 But the Lockess monster, you know, since I was a kid, 720 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:28,079 I always followed it and I heard someone say the 721 00:45:28,079 --> 00:45:30,639 other day, it's a giant eel, And you know what, 722 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:33,039 it makes sense, it really does. 723 00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 2: I can't think of a. 724 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,880 Speaker 1: Dinosaur living in the lock millions of years ago when 725 00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,000 it was a frozen sheet of ice, Like, how could 726 00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,880 a lizard, you know, a dinosaur live in that type 727 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,119 of environment. And it really does make sense that it 728 00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:54,400 could just be a giant eel. It could be a 729 00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:58,360 fifteen thirty foot giant eel. Sure it could be. It's 730 00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:01,360 it's feasible and it does exist, and it's just like 731 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,400 there there are explanations for some things. But there are 732 00:46:04,639 --> 00:46:09,519 hundreds of years of articles on Bigfoot that you and 733 00:46:09,559 --> 00:46:12,960 I can find, and there's stuff that goes back thousands 734 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,639 of years with UH with American Indians. So so there 735 00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,639 there's there's a lot, and you know, people will interpret it. 736 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,360 Oh it's a spirit. Oh, it's a person. Oh, it's 737 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:27,360 a tribe. Everybody has their own interpretation. But the fact 738 00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,599 that you're spending time looking and you're doing it organically, 739 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,480 I think that to me is is something that most 740 00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:37,320 people don't do. 741 00:46:38,079 --> 00:46:41,639 Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm sorry, No, you're fine, go ahead, Yeah, 742 00:46:41,639 --> 00:46:42,199 I mean you do. 743 00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:45,320 Speaker 3: I mean there is there's there's a lot of things 744 00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:46,719 like when you're out in the field, there's a lot 745 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,480 of things that you can't replicate from you know, being 746 00:46:49,519 --> 00:46:51,880 at home and and you know, looking on your looking 747 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:53,119 up different stuff on the computer. 748 00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:53,400 Speaker 2: You know. 749 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 3: So there's like one of the things too that Tony 750 00:46:57,360 --> 00:46:58,119 and I have really. 751 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,159 Speaker 2: Been interested in was finding a cave. And he did 752 00:47:01,159 --> 00:47:02,320 find this cave out. 753 00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:05,559 Speaker 3: There, and it's it's very it's hard to get to. 754 00:47:05,679 --> 00:47:08,480 My gosh, it's hard to get to. It's it's a 755 00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:11,920 very steep area. But that the next expedition, that's the 756 00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,239 place that I'm going to check out, Mike. And the 757 00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,360 reason I say that is like with caves rather to 758 00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:20,199 be lava tubes or mostly in the Northwest, the caves 759 00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,679 are going to be related to volcanic rock and stuff. 760 00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:24,480 But as you go back in there a lot of 761 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,920 animals a lot of times will pass away and their 762 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,400 bones are somewhat preserved, you know, in that environment. 763 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:31,320 Speaker 2: Like like a. 764 00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:35,400 Speaker 3: Perfect example in south in southwestern Oregon right before you 765 00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:38,679 get to Canada is the Oregon Caves National Monument and 766 00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:42,440 that's where Dave Johnson had that that nearly seven foot 767 00:47:42,559 --> 00:47:47,199 tall clinical psychologists from Alaska had that really big sighting, 768 00:47:47,599 --> 00:47:49,360 you know, when he was in Oregon Caves. 769 00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 2: National Park where he went up above his family. 770 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,320 Speaker 3: They were on this trail and he saw a big, 771 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,719 a huge sasquatch look out from behind this tree and 772 00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,000 look down the trail and his family, and he was 773 00:47:59,079 --> 00:48:02,079 very emotionally moved because here he sees this thing you 774 00:48:02,119 --> 00:48:05,639 know that he I mean obviously couldn't physically beat, you know, 775 00:48:05,639 --> 00:48:07,239 and a really really scared him. 776 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:08,440 Speaker 2: But getting back to the cave thing. 777 00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:11,159 Speaker 3: One of the things they found in Oregon Cave National 778 00:48:11,159 --> 00:48:13,639 Money in the big cave, there was this skeleton and 779 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:15,519 they couldn't there was a predator, but they couldn't tell 780 00:48:15,559 --> 00:48:17,639 where it was what it was. So they sent those 781 00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:20,119 bones Mike back over to to d C and they 782 00:48:20,159 --> 00:48:22,920 analyzed them as they came back. It was a jaguar, 783 00:48:23,159 --> 00:48:25,519 you know, so I was like, huh, that's interesting. In 784 00:48:25,519 --> 00:48:27,519 those bones, I think they estimated they had been there 785 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,159 a few thousand years. But you know, this was obviously 786 00:48:32,199 --> 00:48:34,480 an animal that went into a cave. It passed away 787 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,159 and it's but in its bones remained a long time. 788 00:48:38,119 --> 00:48:38,360 Speaker 2: You know. 789 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,199 Speaker 3: Jeff Meldrum too, when he would when he would talk 790 00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:44,320 about the caves in like in Southeast Asia, that's where 791 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,960 they found the gai canapith his teeth, you know, and 792 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,800 there was there was a pattern to it. 793 00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:49,039 Speaker 2: You know. 794 00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:51,800 Speaker 3: He was telling me personally that, you know, there's a 795 00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,280 pattern to this type of cave, with this type of 796 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,000 you know situation, you know, where the bones would be preserved, 797 00:49:00,159 --> 00:49:02,760 the teeth will be preserved. So that's what I want 798 00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,320 to do, is like, there's this one cave that Tony. 799 00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 2: Has already found that I want to explore. 800 00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 3: And you know, you never know the cave. There are 801 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,679 a lot of caves up there, but they're hard to find. 802 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:17,519 They are hard to find unless you talk to someone 803 00:49:17,519 --> 00:49:20,440 who's uh, you know, no, it is really familiar with 804 00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,280 a certain area that's cave dense, you know, cave rich, 805 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:24,199 rich with caves. 806 00:49:24,599 --> 00:49:27,679 Speaker 2: You know. But but yeah. 807 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,440 Speaker 1: That's that's the kind of stuff that you know, that's 808 00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:33,000 that's pretty in depth investigated. Grant there. I mean, that's 809 00:49:33,039 --> 00:49:35,239 that's not for the week the week of heart to 810 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,280 get in there and try to you know, uh, I mean, 811 00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,039 you've got to prepare for for research like that. That's 812 00:49:41,079 --> 00:49:43,199 just not something you just don't. You go up in 813 00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:45,280 your sneakers and. 814 00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:48,199 Speaker 2: I may, I may, I may have to repel. 815 00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:50,679 Speaker 3: I mean, I wish I didn't have to, but I 816 00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:52,920 mean I did that in younger years, but it's been 817 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:53,639 a while. 818 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:55,320 Speaker 2: So sounds like fun. 819 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,679 Speaker 1: Sounds like fun. Well, Urt, I, I can't thank you 820 00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,599 enough for your time, and I know your book's going 821 00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:03,000 to do great, and I'll of course make sure that 822 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,320 I pick up a copy myself. I'm always up for 823 00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,960 a good read and I love to read about not 824 00:50:10,079 --> 00:50:12,199 just the research part, but the fact that you're out 825 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:17,039 there looking and exploring at the same time. So I 826 00:50:17,039 --> 00:50:19,400 wish you the best of luck, and I hope there's 827 00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:21,800 a third book in you, and I hope you keep 828 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:22,199 in touch. 829 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,079 Speaker 2: Oh, I'll definitely be in touch. 830 00:50:24,519 --> 00:50:25,960 Speaker 3: I was telling someone, I don't know if I've got 831 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,519 a third book in me, but if I found bone evidence, yeah, 832 00:50:28,559 --> 00:50:29,320 I'll find that. 833 00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:30,960 Speaker 1: Would be awesome. That would be great. 834 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:31,559 Speaker 2: Ye. 835 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,280 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Kurt. I really do appreciate your time. 836 00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:40,239 Thank you, Mike Pull one second, okay, and that's going 837 00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,920 to wrap it up for us tonight. Thank you all 838 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:46,480 for listening, and be sure to check out the link 839 00:50:46,599 --> 00:50:51,400 to Kurt's book, Sasquatch Way Off the Beaten Path. As 840 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:53,920 for my own book, if you heard me talking with 841 00:50:54,039 --> 00:50:58,000 Kurt about it a few minutes ago, it still is 842 00:50:58,199 --> 00:51:00,599 very much a work in progress. I'll be sure to 843 00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:07,280 keep everyone posted though as it comes together. Until next time, Oh, 844 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,519 here's my dog. Until next time, thanks again for spending 845 00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:15,639 a little time in Bigfoot's wilderness. Have a great night. 846 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,199 May go see what that dog wants.