Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.
Hi everyone, welcome back to trans Dimensional Realities here on
the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I'm your host, Melissa Le
and we're really excited to do our second show so
far of the year. And with this show, as I
mentioned previously, we're going to talk about all sorts of
subject matters in not exactly the paranormal, but in the
way we view the world, our reality. How there are
so many different things going on in reality that a
lot of people just don't pay attention to or ignore.
So we're going to be exploring that. And we got
a great guest tonight, a good friend, Neil Ward. Neil
is the co host of the Paranormal Peep Show here
on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, as well as being
an author and researcher. We're going to be discussing his
new book entitled Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained the most
Perplexing Events of Recent Times. So I'm thrilled to introduce
my friend Neil Ward. Him Neil, Welcome to the program.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. It's great to be on your
news show, and I wish you a great success.
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, thank you. You know, we've talked many
times in the past, and you've always had some really
interesting material in your book, and we're here to talk
about the newest book, the Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained.
So how did you come by writing this book? And
let's talk about some of the things that you were
able to cover.
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, good question. The book actually kind of
pretty much started straight off as the other one was
being put to put to in the final stages of
the editor the last one, which was True Tales of
the Unexpected, which came out in November twenty twenty four,
I think, And so literally three weeks after that was released,
I suddenly got an email from the publisher and they said, look,
we've got a new book that we've lined up called
Modern Mysteries. Would you be interested in doing it because
we think this is your kind of bag, as it were.
So I said, yeah, sure, and they actually gave me
four mysteries that they had already predecided on because they
said that's going to be mentioned somewhere on the book
on the on the back description, which some of the
mistress I was familiar with some of the weren't, so
I had to check those out. So they had chosen
the Diatloft Pass incident, something called the Somerton Man and
the Oakville Blobs and theme three seventy flight, which was
a Malaysian flight. I think I've got the number right. Oh, yes,
the one that went missing about.
Speaker 1: Very familiar with that, very yeah.
Speaker 2: That interesting, interesting story, that one.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very familiar with the Dayatlov Path, Yeah, correctly,
and what happened there. And I know a lot of
people have looked into that. There's been a lot of
different theories. Most people seem to think that it was
a type of bigfoot or YETI they did it. Other
people think that maybe in the call they got delusional
and ran out and rose to death. But although there
was evidence I believe of at least one of the
hikers was beaten brutally and had their skull crushed.
Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, I mean, it depends on which way
you interpret the evidence. And the thing is, the trouble
is because it has taken place in the Soviet Union,
and we'll kind of go into the details to explain
to people what the Diatloft pass is for. I mean,
we're talking because we know it, but there's people thinking,
what the hell are we talking about. So this was
a case that happened in the nineteen fifties. I think
it's nineteen fifty nine, and it concerned something like nine
young Russian students that were doing a kind of ski
hike exercise to achieve a certain grade of achievement, kind
of medals and certificates and things like that. And they
were all experienced skiers, and they were going out in
January out into the Ural mountains, which is going to
be pretty damn cold out there at that time of year,
to be honest, But they were all experienced skiers. They're
led by a young guy who's twenty three. I might
have got his Christian name wrong, but it could be Yury,
but I may be wrong. I know that one of
them is called Yury Diatloff, who was I think he
was studying to be an engineer, but the ski thing
was another kind of string to his bow, as it were.
And they all kind of went out there on trains
and trucks and things like that, you know, like hop
in from one location to another, staying overnight at one location,
meeting school kids, telling them about their adventures that were
to come, and they retrieved a lot of the information
from a daily diary that one of the young girls
that was part of this party was keeping on a
daily basis, and they also took lots of cameras, so
there was a lot of evidence that they could look
back on to try and work out what may have happened.
And so when it came to the kind of third
or fourth day in one other party had to turn
back because he had got injuries from a previous expedition
somewhere and they weren't kind of there was causing him
grief basically, so he had to abandon the party and said,
I've got to go back. So because of that decision,
it was a faithful decision because he was the only
one out of that group that survived by going back.
And the group proceeded on for another ten days or so,
and again the diary was being written on a daily basis,
and then they heard no more from them after a
certain period of time. They couldn't obviously communicate with radios
or they were meant to kind of send a message
by I think it was telegram in those days. If
they got to a certain town. They said, when we
get to this town, we'll send you a telegram to
their headquarters back at the college and we'll let you
know how we are now. The college didn't receive a
telegram on the day in question, and they just assumed
way it must be bad whether they've been slightly delayed
in in there. But no word was reached for many days,
and eventually they decided to call out a search party,
and because of the bad weather, they couldn't find them
until at least February. They found some of the party
out in this area which has now been named Diatlov Pass,
named after the leader of this group. And there's actually
a great, big kind of monument that marks their death
and it's called their pips on it. And they found
them on this kind of mountain side it's actually called
Death Mountain. They believe they was trekking up this mountain
which is known locally as Death Mountain. So you couldn't
get a more onymous kind of setting, really, And they
found some were faced down in the snow by a tree,
a cedar tree that had just been frozen. Some of
their clothes were missing. They found the tent that they
were all staying in completely torn and cut from the inside.
When they analyzed the tent, they flew off the tent
to get forensic analysis on it, and it wasn't until
about three months later, as the snow began to thaw,
that the locals managed to find what they believed could
be disturbances in the snow as it melted. And sure enough,
when they began digging with the special police and the
military that was looking for them, they did find two
bodies or was it four, three or four that had
fallen down in sis ravine in a river. One of
them they detected radioactive materials on their clothing, which was interesting,
and the others they had like a crushed rib cage.
Their eyes had been pulled out, tongues have been removed.
Yet the things they buried, they were buried under like
ten feet of snow at this point. So their speculation
of what caused all those injuries was it animals like
scavenger animals that were eating the corpses. But how could
they do that they're under ten feet of snow. Maybe
they ate the eyes and the tongue before the thing
clapsed into the ravine, but it looked like they were
trying to build a camp or something. In this film,
thing had just clapped, but it could be that snow
had fallen on them as well, causing their chest to
get crushed and things. But some of them had their
whole skin removed off their skull. If I mean, if
you've got on the internet, you can find these pictures.
They are quite disturbing. So I'd recommend that those of
a nervous disposition maybe not to venture too closely into that.
But it was the fact that the deaths were covered
up by the Soviet authorities at the time, and it's
only when the Berlin Wall collapsed in nineteen eighty nine
did this story of these nine missing skiers sort of
come to light. And the prosecutor involved in the case,
who was a guy that was essentially he was the
lead policeman on the case. He was told to keep
quiet about a lot of that sort of stuff, and
he was pretty sure that it could have been involved
with the UFO. He think that they a lot of
them have been shot by what he termed a death
ray from a UFO because their cameras revealed photographs. Certainly
the last shots revealed range lights in the sky. Yeah,
I mean they did admit some years later the Soviet
military were testing out what they call parachute mines, which
are these mines that get launched from aeroplanes or fired
from rockets or something. They come down on a parachute
and they explode near the enemy or something as they're
coming down on a parachute. So that could explain potentially
the lights that they had photographed. They didn't want to
admit that they were maybe dropping these bombs in their
area because they shouldn't have been doing it. But obviously,
if this group of hikers had gone off course anyway,
they were probably in the wrong place at the wrong time.
So that was one potential explanation. But then the other
explanation is, well, what's causing this radiation on some of
the clothes you see. Now, it did turn out one
of the explanations given to kind of explain that was
that one of the party did work or had some
association with a Russian atomic kind of factory or place
where they were dealing with atomic and nuclear stuff, so
that might explain some of the radiation. The important thing
to note is that a lot of the clothes were
found on these bodies were not actually their clothes, but
they've taken from the other dead bodies, so as some
died of frostbite, they would take their clothes off to
keep for themselves to keep them warm. So they were
really a lot of them are freezing to death basically.
But when they held the funerals of these people, lots
of eyewitnesses said that the color of the skin of
the corpses when they were allowed to view them, didn't
look right. They just didn't look like proper corpses. And
so again that raised an anonymy with people about what
possibly could have caused that. So and again you mentioned
a yeti or a big foot. They did site a
kind of creature or some shadowy figure through the trees,
which they did take a photograph of, but you can't
rediscern who it is or what it is exactly. It
does look humanoid from a distance of maybe one hundred
meters a well or so. And one of the young
girls in a diary had written a kind of a
jokey thing to say that we might even encounter the
yetti out here. Who knows kind of thing, you know,
So there's lots of things there to kind of chew
over and sort of think, well, what did kill these people?
Speaker 1: You see, see, I am unfamiliar with the parts of
the story about the bodies found in the razine, in
the ravine missing eyes and tongue, or the switching of clothes.
Radiation that's all news to me. Shows you how I
should have researched it more. But it's a fascinating case
either way, because there's so many different elements from different explanations.
I had always just assumed it was a yetty bigfoot attack,
but now I'm starting to change that opinion. Seems like
there is a lot more going on.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean, they did find some bodies that
died they think earlier than the others. And the best
explanation is that some died and when they died, they
stole their clothes or took them respectfully off them to
help them survive. But the thing is what caused them
to suddenly cut their way out of the tent. So
one of the other explanations, one of the more mundane explanations,
is what they call a slab ice avalanche, where they
think that an avalanche of literally slab ice is slid
down the mountain toward them. They could probably hear it
coming down the mountain towards them before it it actually
struck the tent because they found the tent half buried
in snow anyway, and so to find their way out quickly,
can we get the zip open or the buttons undone
of our tent or whatever is that holds it together,
And they just took a knife and cut their way
out quickly and then ran out the tent to get
out the way of this oncoming slab ice. Really that
may have killed a few of them, or they may
have buried a few up to their necks in snow,
and they may have dug their way out. But then
some of them seem to have like a burn marks
on their hands and arms, which could have been caused
by campfires. Others seem to have bruises on their face,
looked like someone had punched them up or something like that.
So there was other people that sort of said, well,
maybe they've been beaten up by the Russian military or something,
you know, keep quiet about whatever we're doing here, and
threatened them, or they may have been killed by the
local populace, which is the people that lived out in
those areas that herd it reindeer. So lots of people
came under suspicion. But the guy that was the prosecutor
found that his hands were tied to a certain extent
because he felt that he couldn't proceed too much digging
further into it because it was rough aled a few
feathers higher up the chain, and so a lot of
it is a mystery simply because people are not willing
to divulge the nature of what's happened within the Russian
government at that time and what happened out in the mountains,
and basically lots of people lost their jobs are allowing
them to go out there, and they forbid people to
go into their air i for another three or four
years after the event happened. I guess they just wanted
to make sure that things weren't going to go or
it gave them time to clear away evidence that they
didn't want people to find. Maybe I don't know, but
it's a very hard to get to place anyway. People
obviously still go there, but only they're very determined, you know,
those that are perhaps experienced hikers with people that know
the way around there. But it's a very strange case.
I mean, some people speculated it could be UFOs that
are doing what they call human mutilations and things. Can't
prove it, but it's one sort of like possibility, considering
that the head guy that was investigating it did think
it was UFOs, and certainly there was reports from other
people that believed they'd seen UFOs and lights in the
sky as well, which may not be those parachute bombs.
They could have been genuine UFOs, but who knows. Who knows.
Speaker 1: Fascinating case. I mean, I don't think we're ever going
to give the full answers for it because it happened
so long ago under the Soviet Union. So but it's
a fascinating mystery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those ones that every few years
people seem to like have another crack at it, basically,
And I know that in about twenty eighteen or nineteen
they sent a team out there to come up with
some various theories, and then more recently about twenty twenty
three twenty four, another team went out there to try
and come up with some theories. And the only explanation
the Offishy came up with they were by some powerful force,
but they didn't really explain what that powerful force was
whether it's of nature or of man or or something offworldly.
They didn't really go into detail, so it was a
very abstract kind of explanation of what killed them.
Speaker 1: There's something that I've been really interested in studying lately,
which may or may not have anything to do with
this case. But it's all the stories out of in
the US, out of Appalachia, and there's stories where the
locals have rules because there's so many incidents of high strangeness,
different creatures, Bigfoot especially, but like a big Gallin like creature,
which is it's crazy as hell. But some of the
things that you're mentioning from this story to fit in
with this unexplainable high strangeness that's happening in the Appalachian Mountains.
People hearing their names being called in the woods. The
rules of Appalachia are at night, you close all your
windows lines, you know, so you nothing can look in.
You can't look out. If you're outside and you hear
your name called, no you didn't. If you hear whistling,
no you didn't. If you see anything, you turntail and
walk away. Don't run because that, you know, kicks in
a predator response. If you run, yes, but there's so
many strange stories and there are places in the world
that are just like this. I mean, you have the
Bridgewater Triangle up in Massachusetts. You have what's that forest
in Romania with the big open circle area, and people
have had a lot of experiences in that. It's been
years since I've talked about that. That's why I can't
remember the name of it. Just certain places of high
strangeness around the world that it really, you know, twists
reality or what we think of as reality.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we mentioned Bigfoot there, and obviously we talked about
Bigfoot in the Atloft Pass incident. Could there be a
yetti or something involved in that one. But one of
the other mysteries I cover in the book is the
Bigfoot mystery. Because the dictator of the book is that
I had to cover mysteries from the twentieth century to
present day. I couldn't go way back into the past
and say, well, who built the pyramids? That's a mystery
that wasn't part of the remit on the book. So,
I mean, one of the very first mysteries I picked
up on was about a lighthouse where three of the
lighthouse keepers in nineteen oh one literally just at the
turn of the twentieth century went missing, possibly caused by
a freak way that pulled them all out to sea.
But one of the later ministries I covered was the Bigfoot,
and that began around in the nineteen fifties, but people
had already heard of something similar because when people started
to go up Mount Everest and in the Himalayas, there
was talk of seeing strange, large, ape like hairy creatures
up there. They certainly found footprints in the snow, and
they even measured them with their pickaxes to kind of
get a rough gauge of how big these footprints were.
And usually when these mountaineers were up the mountains, they
could look down into the valley and they could see
these figures. They'd stand out a mile, these great, big,
dark figures against the snow. And it was believed that
these creatures YETI or the Bigfoot, were walking from one
mountain range to another to find food, you know, sourcing
food in the valley or something. And the name of
the Abominable Snowmen and became known about around that time.
That was actually a mistranslation from the Nepalese people. So
because they smelled rather like bigfoot in the US and Canada,
they got this skuncake kind of description of smelling. I
think it the same applies to all these bigfoot creatures
around the world. And what they were trying to describe
was the bad smelling creature man hairy man. But the
translation came out wrong, and the guy who translated it
can only come up with the word abominable snowman because
he couldn't come up with smelly old hairy man or
something whichever this translation might become to. So I guess
he maybe made it more palatable for the Western Ears
or something, but he called it the abominable snowman. And
it's a strange thing. Why was it called a bonninable?
But I think that kind of explains it really. But
it was later on when loggers were kind of like
making roads in various forests in the US and Canada
that they discovered lots of their equipment went missing or
was messed around with, and then they started to find footprints.
And what was happening as people become more industrialised, they're
digging their way into these forests and that's where these
creatures are allegedly living, and so they're kind of defending
their territory or trying to warn them off or something,
or just curious, and that's when they're finding evidence of them.
And so the mystery the Bigfoot really started from there.
And that's when people that had actually gone into the
forests years before as a single gold prospectors who have
encountered as they would read about these articles in these
magazines some thirty or forty years later and said, well,
I've seen these things, but thirty or forty years ago,
you know, in nineteen fifteen or nineteen twenty. Albert Osman
being a case point of that's what brought him for
because he saw a magazine article about the Bigfoot, and
so he stepped forward and says, well, I've seen one too,
but it was in nineteen twenty six, and that's where
he encountered a family of bigfoot and he stayed with
them for like six days, not voluntary, other dad he
was kept prisoner and he managed to escape after he
managed to persuade the old man Bigfoot to try some
of his snuff, and once he was distracted by the
powerful smell of snuff up his nostrils, that's when he
grabbed his gun and ran the hell out there.
Speaker 1: He said, well, that's a very famous case. I remember
reading about that many years ago. And the same year
there was the other case up around Mount Saint Helens
in an area what would later be called Ape Canyon,
where these miners were working and they had a little
cabin and one day one of them saw what was
probably a bigfoot type creature and they shot it and
the creature fell into the canyon dead, and that's how
it got the name Ape Canyon. But then that night
they were attacked all night long by several of these
creatures trying to break again to get at them in
this cabin. They were bounding at the door, which they barricaded,
They were trying to come through the roof. They were
kept shooting at them. It was a really hairy bar
in the pun experience. And the next morning they finally
were able to get out of there. The creatures retreated,
but there's all these big boulders and rocks all around
the cabin and they got out of there. So but yeah,
that happened the same year as Albert Osmand's experience.
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you mentioned Mountain Helens because they believe
that when Mountain Helen's the volcano that was there went
off in nineteen eighty. I think it was a massive,
ferocious eruption. They believed that a lot of the possible
sasquatches maybe had to move out the area because of that,
and so they ended up taking up new territories and
more sightings increased because of that, and possibly some were
killed in the lava flow, perhaps if they didn't get
away or died of ash inhalation maybe or something. So yeah,
with the Bigfoot chapter, I also cover the story of
a guy that actually claimed, similar to your log cabin story,
would claimed to have shot one, but he didn't want
to admit to shooting it because someone like a lawyer
pointed out to him saying, look, if if we managed
to identify this creature and may prove that it's at
least half human, because you've shot it, you could be
had up for murder and your name's on the block
sort of thing. So he would kind of allude to
it being shot, but he would not admit to actually
shooting it. So he came up with the whole kind
of varied stories. Oh, it was found in Japan, or
it was brought across by the Russians on an old
boat or something like that, and then eventually he did
say that he shot it, and it was known as
a Minnesota Iceman. And then there was this guy who
was out hunting with his friends looking for deer to shoot,
and he came across I think it was three big
foot that possibly they might have actually been eating his
kill that he had shot, and he went up to them,
and then one of them leapt up in the air
towards him or something, and so he just shot, I
presume instinctively for defense, and the others they must have
run off, because he doesn't really mention them, but he
shot it, and he was shocked. He didn't know what
to do with it, so he left it. It was
about five or six days later he decided they preyed
on his mind too much. He's got to go back
there and find his creature. And he found it there,
buried in the snow by this point, and he put
it in his pickup truck and he brought it back
to his wife and says, oh, by the way, we
need the freezer now for this thing, So get your
peas and beef out. We're going to put this thing
in the freezer. And they got this great big chest
freezer or something. They put it down in this freezer
and basically they toured this around the United States. It's
a carnivals fairs, shopping malls as the Minnesota Riceman, charging people,
you know, fifty cents or whatever at that time to
go in there between nineteen sixty seven to about nineteen
seventy eight or something like that. And Frank Hanson I think,
was the guy that did this. Now there was some
people he called in, some experts to come and kind
of give it some authority. What was the kind of
science and the biology of this creature that he had found.
And they these two guys that were top bilagist of
the day. One was Belgium, I can't remember the names now,
and one was English. I think they were invited to
go in during the winter months when this thing wasn't
on tour, and they spent three days examining this corpse
of this big foot for want of a bet of
a word, this hairy creature that had been shot and
they said it was buried under this ice with a
glass cover, and at first they thought it was fake.
They was very suspicious, but they said, let me to you.
After three days of examine this thing close up. We
came to the conclusion and this was once a real, living,
breathing creature. And they said one of its eyes was missing,
and the other eye had popped out and was hanging
sort of down on its cheek. They said, that's possibly
because of the force of the other eye popping out,
may have popped the other one out. Its hand was
up like that. And now you think, oh, that's because
it's trying to stop itself getting shot. But if you
actually think about it, this creature has never encountered a
man before, likely never understood what a gun was, so
it wouldn't even understand that a bullet is coming out
towards it at twice a speed of sound. So there's
no way that it would even want to put its
hand up instinctively. It may have put its hand up
instinctly as it fell forward, perhaps to stop the fall.
That's my explanation anyway, But its hand is found frozen
in that position just above its head, and they reckoned
it was a young male, possibly about twelve thirteen years
of age, but it was at least six foot something.
But it was a hairy, hairy person, and you could
see where the blood had oozed out of it, and
it all kind of bubbled in the water that had
now become ice, And they basically gave it the thumbs
up and said, this is definitely a real creature, and
they wrote a book about it. And sometime after that,
the Minnesota Iceman disappeared off the tour circuit thing and
it was supposedly replaced by some sort of dummy that
was there instead. Now, I looked at photoglass on the
Internet of this creature and it didn't have the ice
on or the glass on. So I suspected the pictures
I was looking at was the dummy, because this looked
kind of there's no ice there or blood or anything
like that.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the pictures of it in ice.
Speaker 2: And I've seen some of the in case in ice pictures. Yes,
so you can kind of sense that what they've got
in ice was was real. Because he also the guy
that was studying it, He said, as they leant across
the glass to study it, their weight cracked the glass
below them and there was a breakage, and then they
could start to smell the smell of rotten flesh coming
up through this cracked ice, which to them said that's
definitely something real in this box, you know. So, yeah,
it was definitely given the seal of approval, as it were,
by these two biologists zoologists. But of course if you
go to Wikipedia, it's a different kettle fish you're going
to be presented with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the problem.
Speaker 2: Don't go to Wikipedia. No, go to that at all.
Speaker 1: Well, there's another story similar to that. I don't know
if over there, if you remember Art Bell, Yeah, yeah, okay,
when he was still doing Coast to Coast many years ago,
he had a he got a fax from a guy
who claimed to have killed two bigfoots. Oh, and he
was very paranoid about coming out. He didn't want to
be found out out for the exact reason of he
didn't know if these things were human or not, and
he was afraid of getting charged with murder. But then
he eventually came forward on the air and told his story.
I think, I mean by the name of Buzz. But
he and a buddy were out hunting and they came
across one of the creatures, a big male, and they
shot it and it struggled, fell back into the bushes
or whatnot, And Buzz, I guess was brave enough to
go back in and look for it, and it was dead.
But then all of a sudden, a female attacked them
and they wound up shooting it too.
Speaker 2: Wow, so it killed.
Speaker 1: Both of them. And then when they realized they took
a good look at what these creatures were, they started panicking.
It's like, I think we murdered someone. And so they
wound up burying the two corpses and then vowing never
to speak of it again. So it took him about
thirty years later to come out on Art Bell's show.
And when you listen to this gentleman speak, he sounds
very sincere, sounds very scared, paranoid of being found out
who he is because he doesn't.
Speaker 2: Want to go to jail.
Speaker 1: And he came on a couple of times. But it
was a really interesting and very believable story. Now I
feel bad that they had to kill two bigfoot just
because they didn't know what they were, but yeah, it's
just another story of human encounters with Bigfoot that didn't
turn out so well.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the thing is, given the number of
signs of Bigfoot over the years, it doesn't surprise me
that there are people that have come across them and
killed them, and you think, well, surely we should be
hearing about this, but you're hearing bits of it. People
are very reluctant to tell you about it. They've done it,
you know, because of this thing of getting into trouble,
and you know, it would be amazing if they could
bring one forward, but I think in today's world it'd
be a very hot potato to deal with. And this
is possibly why they don't want to admit to it,
because it throws up all these questions about our evolution.
Where did we come from? You know, were we created
by God as Adam and Eve or did we come
from apes? Or is there some other genetic connection there
that we don't want to explain, you know, And that
could lead into the whole alien thing where our DNA's
allegedly being tampered with, and you know, maybe we've been
mixed with the Neanderthal man and that's what the big
Foot is, et cetera, et cetera, And it opens up
a whole kind of keg of problems for people.
Speaker 1: I think, well, there are also stories, two different types
of stories. Some people who have seen Bigfoot or or
these these creatures receive men in black visits to shut
up and don't tell their stories. But there are also
a lot of stories surrounding these creatures that go beyond
our version of reality. They seem to be able to
appear and disappear at will, footsteps that go or down
a path and then just stop, they're no longer there.
People see one and then all of a sudden it's gone,
peeking out from behind a tree. Some researchers who've caught
some on thermal you'll see a head and shoulders and
arm peeking up from behind a tree. It goes back
behind the tree and they walk up to it and
there's nothing there. So there's a lot of you know,
there's also stories of bigfoots being seen with UFOs and
things like that. But yeah, there's a very interdimensional quality
that seems to be surrounding these creatures, at least from
a lot of the stories that people have told.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. It seems there's lots of people that
are into the zoology sort of stuff, the cryptozoology. They
won't entertain the idea of Bigfoot coming out of a
UFO or anything like that, whereas I'm open to the
whole idea if they come out of UFOs. I mean
there could be two types. There's the natural ones that
we have on our earth and then the one that
could be domesticated that are then put to use by
et or whoever. There was an encounter. I never mentioned
this in the book, but I've done this in a presentation.
There was an encounter by an Italian guy that was
traveling late at night through the mountains of Italy. He
was on his way to stay at his aunt's house,
who owned a hotel, I think, and he was on
his way to her, but because of the snowy weather
to pull over and just weighe it out during the night.
But he saw this glowing disc craft down in the valleys,
so he walked down towards to take a closer look,
and a robot type creature was outside the craft. And
then down this shaft of light or a lift or
something appeared a alien with catlike eyes, and he started
to speak to him, and he spoke to him about
many many things. But one of the things he mentioned
was that on their planet, or where he came from,
they have ape like creatures that do their menial tasks
for them. And I thought that was interesting because that
might explain a lot about these bigfoot that come out
of these craft. It's almost like you get if you
think back to the film The Day of the Earth
Stood Still, you got the nine foot tall gore I
think his name is Robot that aids Michael Rennie. He
could be a sort of the Bigfoot, could be a
more gorilla type version of that as an aid for
the aliens in some way. But yeah, it's an interesting connection.
But whether we get to the bottom of it, I
don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, there's one incident that was recorded by the KNIDS
team National Institute for Discovery Science, who spent twenty something
years investigating the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, And there was
a book that one of the researchers wrote with George Knapp,
who's an investigative journalists, And there was one night two
investigators from the team were out using night vision out
near one of the old homesteads that were there, Homestead two,
and they started to see only through the night vision,
not in with their eyes, a light form near the
ground and then started getting bigger and bigger and formed
like a ring, and then this big what type creature
crawled through it like it was crawling out of a
tunnel came out, stood up and ran into the woods.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: And then that that tunnel or portal whatever it was,
strength back down and then disappeared. The only bad thing
about that whole thing is they didn't have any video
on it. They didn't that cameras technology back then did
not have recording capabilities like the newer ones do now.
So it's just a story. But it's interesting, and that's
another reason why I love Skinwalker Ranch, like some of
these other places that seemed to be a mecca of
high strangeness.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing is, even if you got
footage of that kind of thing happening today, the atization
will be thrown out. Well, that's just you know, CGII
or something like that, you know, And that's the problem
with people face they're going to get. You can give
the best evidence, and it's always to be shot down.
That's being created something on a computer. There must be
a way of identifying what's AI and what's real through
versual is.
Speaker 1: Actually you could run any photos or video through AI
like chat, GPT or others, Yeah, and ask it to
look for markers that it was created by AI. I
had a photo that somebody sent me once that looked
suspiciously like like CGI or or an AI creation, and
I ran it through chat GPT and it did all
these checks and he came back and said everything that
it could see it was genuine.
Speaker 2: Wow. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: So there are ways to get around it. But I
also warned people who are on social media, whether it's TikTok, YouTube,
any of these channels where these people share footage of
supposed bigfoots, there's a lot of AI creations out there now,
and you can't take anything at face value.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that reminds me. I talk a lot
about on the Bigfoot chapter about the Patty Film, the
so called Patty Film that was filming Bluff Creek in
northern California by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimblin, who two cowboys,
although they were kind of not official cowboys, I guess,
I don't know really what the term would be, but
they were riding horses. They look like cowboys to me anyway.
But they had spent about three or four days, I think,
going through this part of the area because they had
heard there was footprints of Bigfoot in the area, and
it is known that Roger Patterson was trying to make
a documentary about Bigfoot. He had an interest in it,
and he persuaded Bob Gimblin to accompany him. And they'd
just come around the creek of this small river where
they suddenly, I think, he said, the horses detected at first.
They must have smelt it or something, you know, and
they got a bit itchy and the horse started to
rear up. I think Bob Gimman fell off his horse.
And that's the point, he said. When he got off
the horse, or fell off the horse and he recovered,
he saw the bigfoot stand up and start to walk
away from them. So he shouted over to did I say,
Bob g Yeah, he shouted across to Bob Gimlin, cover
me because he had a rifle, and so he was
looking at it through his rifle, and he said he
didn't want to shoot the thing, but he was covered
in just in case. And he said that he managed
to film. Roger Pattinson he managed to film on this
I think of a sixteen milimeter camera that he had hired,
about two or three minutes of this bigfoot walking across
and that has become one of the big favorites of
Bigfoot fans around the world, and in this modern day
and age now they've had people analyze it and freeze
the frame and enhance and everything like that. And they've
had people that were experts in anthropology. Jeff Meldrum, I
think his name Jeff More. Yeah, he just he passed
away a few months ago, didn't he. Yeah, But he
was a big fan of it. He had come out
and said, if you just study the muscles on the
back of this creature and its calf muscles and things
like that, you can see these muscles ripple. And he said,
now with the aid of this technology, you can see
it a lot clearer, and you know, you can see
the way the feet walk and everything. And you know,
you get the skeptics saying, oh, you can see the zipper,
but where is the zipper. There's no zipper on this thing.
You point it out, you know, there's no zipper. And
they've even had a guy that claimed that he was
a big foot from the nineteen sixty seven film and
he's been filmed walking in a kind of big foot costume,
but he looks nothing like this Patty at all.
Speaker 1: As the costumes they've tried to use the debunk it
or look fake as hell. They're obviously who would come
up with the idea of making this creature a female yes,
with breasts? Yes, yeah, I mean anybody who is going
to try to make a Bigfoot movie, especially back then,
put a guy in a suit and just a regular
gorilla suit or whatnot and walk across. I mean we
are talking nineteen sixty seven here or sixty eight sixty seven. Yeah, yeah,
so the technology didn't exist back then, but to put
that extra detail into the video, you can't tell me
that was fake. Plus, I agree, I've seen the video
examined by multiple anthropologists. They talk about the muscles under
the fur, how the arms are longer down by the knees,
and the gate and the way it walked. I mean,
I totally believe it's real.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, me too. I kind of agree with Dr
Jeff Maldron based upon his expertise that leads me to
think that it's definitely a real creature. And the other
thing about it is that he makes a comparison with
the Planet of the Apes films that were coming out
around that time. The original Planet of the Apes films
with the latex facial masks or appliance that they'd put
on their faces. And he particularly points out in an
interview that I've seen with him, he says, if you
go to the sequel film, which like nineteen sixty nine,
nineteen seventy Beneath the Planet the Apes, they actually have
a shot of these gorillas in a kind of sauna
taking a sauna thing. And he said, these things just
like a great, big furry kind of fur coats sitting
on him, and said they look like big furry Pillsbury
dough boys. They're terrible costumes, he said, they look really awful.
And he said, but that was the best they had
at the time. And there was also a guy that
he was employed by Hollywood, and I think he might
have been from Czechoslovakia. And I forget the guy's name,
but he was always the guy that dressed up as
the ape or the monster in lots of horror films
of the fifth ffties and the sixties, and he had
the best effects applied to him. And even he said,
I think it's a genuine Bigfoot. And yet he would
know the top effects of the day and what they're
capable of. And the guy who did the effects for
the Planet the Apes, the makeup effects was John Chambers
who he actually received an oscar for his special effects
on Planet the Apes. And when he was in retirement
home after he had not worked for many years, someone
had got into the retirement home like an investigative report
or someone like that, but they dressed up as a
nurse to make out they were part of the retirement
home to get his trust, I think, and then they
would talk to him and they said to him, so
what do you think about that Bigfoot filmed in northern
California And he said, well, he says, I'm good, but
are not that good? Meaning he's not as good as
whoever did the effects if there were effects of this
makeup on this patty creature. And so that kind of
is a strong statement to make. You've got the top
guy who did all the artistry on the Planet of
the Apes and he's claiming that he can't be as
good as the one that's been seen on this sinny film,
which was amazing. Really, So there's been people that, like
you said, there's many people that trying to emulate it,
and they try and copy it using their footage and
there's very few that come even close to it. It
was just one of those things that they managed to
be there on the day and get some really really
strong footage of it. It's amazing. And they even made
cast of the footprints because the footprints that it created,
they managed to get castle those later on as well.
You see, so there's that secondary evidence they brought forward
as well.
Speaker 1: Well, what are we have enough time for one more story?
What's something else from the book that you find personally
very fascinating.
Speaker 2: I've always been fascinated with the Well, there's two I
can talk about, but you can choose. I can talk
about the ghost of the person writing through Time. I
mentioned this to you before Writing through Time from the
Middle Ages through an early computer, they were receiving messages.
It's called the Dondalston messages. And this guy moved into
a cottage he had borrowed an early BBC micro computer
from nineteen eighty four I think, and he started to
receive strange messages written in what he called early modern English,
and they appeared to be a messages from a guy
talking through time who used to live in the house
some four hundred years earlier or something, which was an
interesting one. So he was a teacher. This guy called
Ken Webster and he lived in there with his girlfriend,
who was Debbie, and she was nineteen at the time,
and I think Ken was probably about thirty or something.
And because he was a teacher, they were just at
that time bringing out the early BBC micro computer, which
had no Internet connection. The Internet was about twelve years
away from being public as it were. It had no modem,
of course, it was literally a word processor. And Kenn
had borrowed this computer from the school to practice on
it so that he could then teach those skills to
his students. And there was also a third person that
lived in this house for a short while who was
writing comedy scripts, and he said, well, why don't you
practice on this computer, and he showed her how to
do it, and you have to save it to this
floppy disk, you know, and so that's what she did.
But sometimes they go off to the pub and they'd
come back and they'd find messages on there, and it'd
be written in old English, so it's hard to even
to understand. We're in the book that I've read called
The Vertical Plane. They print some of the messages as
they were, and then they've got a sort of translation
of how it's sounded. Today's English. So it says, for instance,
does the have a horse and he has to write
back says, no, we have horses, but we don't use
them like you do. We have cars. And he has
to try and describe what a car is to this guy.
And at first he thought someone was playing a prank
on him. He kept thinking, what is it my girlfriend?
And they'd leave the computer on, they go to the pub,
they come back, they find a message on there, and
he would talk about his time in Oxford and things
like that, and he called himself Lucas, this mysterious writer
who's coming through their computer. But the weird thing was,
he said he could also see them, and he said,
what are you doing in my house? So it appeared
to be a case of a poltergeist type of activity,
because they'd find things like all the chairs stacked up
in the corner of the kitchen, or they'd got a
cat and all the tins of cat food were piled
one on top of each other, very neatly on the
kitchen table. But he would talk about things they didn't
know about the house. For instance, he had mentioned red
flagstone flooring because Ken was trying to renovate the cottage.
It was only some time later that he found traces
this red red flagstone flooring underneath the floorboards and things.
But he was observing them from his time. He could
see them like ghosts in his house, and he was
frightening them, thinking they were demons or devils or something
like that. But eventually he began to trust them. So
they said, well, how can you write to us? What
are you using to talk to us from your time?
And he said that there was this person that came
down his chimney in a blaze of green light, who
he termed as a friend, and he gave.
Speaker 1: Me the.
Speaker 2: Leams boist, which is a modern English word that he
gave early modern English word the leams boised. Now the
leam's voice. Someone translated it and they said boised is
box and leams is colorful lights. So basically he was
talking about a box of colorful lights that he was
using to speak through to send messages to the future
of nineteen eighty four. Fascinating story. Fascinating story.
Speaker 1: I mean that that gets my brain twirling in all
sorts of different directions. Being of light or light comes
down the chimney and being gives them basically a computer. Yeah,
the tripe things, and it bridges through time. Now, time
itself is a very quote doctor who whibbly wobbly timey
whymy type of thing? And there is the idea that
all time is happening at once. So instead of linearly
looking all the way back hundreds of years for this
communication take place, it's possibly it's happening right now, right
in real time. And that device was able to bridge
the gap between those two timelines that we are only
able to see and experience one at a time.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so the the the interesting thing is that
he didn't have a keyboard on it from how we
would understand a keyboard to type things. They said, but
how do you write the words? And he said, well,
I discovered the words would appear in front of me,
like in the air. And he had a housemaid that
used to do his errands for him. She was like fourteen,
and so she used to clean and cook and stuff
like that, and she would sing, and she would sing
little songs apparently, and he would see these words appear
in the air above this leam's voiced. So he took
that as his way that he could maybe send messages.
So he would speak and he would see them. But
he said it was interesting that other people couldn't see
this box. It's only he could see it. So it's
almost like he had to be the medium to make
this thing work, or it gets a bit complicated because
other people start to use it, so I'm not quite
sure how they can see it too. But he had
to be near it or something to make it work.
But eventually he had to move away, and I think
I'm not quite sure what happened to the Lean's books.
I can't remember whether someone took it or whatever. But
he wrote a book on his experiences in thirteen eighty
or whatever the year was that he wrote this book,
and he said it would be found somewhere at some point.
Now they haven't found this book today. But there was
an angle on this story as well as ken Webster
communicating with this being called Lucas, whose real name was Thomas.
He used Lucas an alias because he was worried about
witchcraft accusations, getting into trouble that type of thing, a
bit like our caller about the bigfoot type of thing.
He would use an alias. But he said there was
another person in on this conversation who was from the
year twenty one oh nine, and so when he was
originally talking to Ken Webster, who was in nineteen eighty four,
he said, oh, I am sorry. I apologize. I thought
you was the person from twenty one oh nine, and
he said who is this And he said, well, that's
another person that talks to me from the year twenty
one oh nine. So Ken Webster scratched his head and thought, well,
this is getting really peculiar. So eventually decided that he'll
try and type a message this twenty one oh nine.
So he wrote call in twenty one oh nine, and
maybe an hour later, a message pops up on the
computer and it's from this twenty one oh nine, and
it said it's conducting experiments with time and there's many
of us. We can't tell you too much because it
would interfere with the experiment, but we're trying to answer
your questions as best as we can. But it looked
like some of the messages that were coming from Lucas
were being hacked by this twenty nine because some of
the people raise concerns. They said, well, look there's a
question mark that Lucas has written here. You didn't have
question marks back in that time, so he can't be
using them. But what they believed is that twenty one
oh nine, whoever was in twenty one was adding they
were like correct in the typos as such, you see,
to try and improve the English. It was a very
bizarre case, very bizarre, and they even had people from
the Psychic Investigations of the spr the Society's Cycle Research
too researchers go there and try and work out what
was happening, and they could not fathom it at all.
They had no explanation of what was happening.
Speaker 1: Wow, that is probably one of the most bizarre and
unique cases they've ever heard of.
Speaker 2: It's worth if anyone. I mean, I can read it
in the book that I've got, got Modern Mysteries of
the Unexplained by Neil Ward, But if you want to
deep dive into it and look at the actual write
in and the text and things, I would recommend buying
The Vertical Blane by Ken Webster of Amazon. Now there
are copies out there that are like two hundred pounds,
I would steer away from those. There's a more revised,
updated edition and I would go for that one, which
in UK money is about seventeen pounds. That might be
about twenty five dollars or something your money maybe, so
I would go for the more type in revised edition
of The Vertical Plane if you want to try and
crack down on that one.
Speaker 1: Fascinating, Okay, I'm going to look into that definitely. So
we were coming to the end of the show here.
Now where can people find your book?
Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned, Amazon is probably one of the
most well known places. So it's true Tale, sorry, not
True Tales of the Paranormal. That's our previous book. So
this is Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained, and they can
find it on Amazon. It's published by our Tourist Publishing,
but I guess you can buy and all the other
websites like Barnes and Noble or your local bookstore anywhere
like that. But yeah, go check it out and please
leave a review if anyone does buy it, I'd be
glad to have a review of it.
Speaker 1: And also I want to tell everybody remind them that
you are the co host of the Paranormal Peep Show,
which the latest episode is coming out as we're recording
this tomorrow, Thursday the eighteenth. Ironically, my show will be
coming out at the same time too, so push everybody
to your show. It's always a great one and everyone
loves it. So but again, Neil, thank you so much
for coming on and talking with me today. This has
been a treat.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, and I take this opportunity to
wish you and all your family and friends a great
Christmas holiday and to all the listeners on the Paranormal
UK Radio Network also enjoy yourselves and stay safe. Thanks
for listening.
Speaker 1: Well, that was certainly an interesting interview with Neil. Neil's
a good friend. I've known him a long time and
his show, Paranormal Peep Show is airing the third Thursday
of every month here in the Paranormal UK Radio Network.
So until next time, just fyi, we will not be
having a show next week because of Christmas, but I
am going to have a show ready for New Years,
and so once everybody wakes up and starts getting over
their hangovers, they have a new trans dimensional reality show
to watch which is going to be a show solely
dedicated to ghosts and ghosts investigations. So until then, thank
you for watching and listening here on the Paranormal UK
Radio Network. Be good humans and we'll talk to you
soon bye bye