1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,000
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best

2
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,919
in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world.

3
00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:37,079
Hi everyone, welcome back to trans Dimensional Realities here on

4
00:00:37,119 --> 00:00:40,719
the Paranormal UK Radio Network. I'm your host, Melissa Le

5
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,399
and we're really excited to do our second show so

6
00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,960
far of the year. And with this show, as I

7
00:00:50,079 --> 00:00:52,640
mentioned previously, we're going to talk about all sorts of

8
00:00:52,679 --> 00:00:56,560
subject matters in not exactly the paranormal, but in the

9
00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,640
way we view the world, our reality. How there are

10
00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,200
so many different things going on in reality that a

11
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:07,439
lot of people just don't pay attention to or ignore.

12
00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,560
So we're going to be exploring that. And we got

13
00:01:11,599 --> 00:01:15,920
a great guest tonight, a good friend, Neil Ward. Neil

14
00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:18,840
is the co host of the Paranormal Peep Show here

15
00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,799
on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, as well as being

16
00:01:23,519 --> 00:01:27,200
an author and researcher. We're going to be discussing his

17
00:01:27,359 --> 00:01:32,920
new book entitled Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained the most

18
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:38,840
Perplexing Events of Recent Times. So I'm thrilled to introduce

19
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,319
my friend Neil Ward. Him Neil, Welcome to the program.

20
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,799
Speaker 2: Thank you very much. It's great to be on your

21
00:01:45,879 --> 00:01:47,840
news show, and I wish you a great success.

22
00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:53,439
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you, thank you. You know, we've talked many

23
00:01:53,519 --> 00:01:57,879
times in the past, and you've always had some really

24
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,239
interesting material in your book, and we're here to talk

25
00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,519
about the newest book, the Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained.

26
00:02:09,159 --> 00:02:13,280
So how did you come by writing this book? And

27
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,000
let's talk about some of the things that you were

28
00:02:17,039 --> 00:02:17,639
able to cover.

29
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, good question. The book actually kind of

30
00:02:22,159 --> 00:02:24,879
pretty much started straight off as the other one was

31
00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,639
being put to put to in the final stages of

32
00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:31,120
the editor the last one, which was True Tales of

33
00:02:31,199 --> 00:02:36,319
the Unexpected, which came out in November twenty twenty four,

34
00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,599
I think, And so literally three weeks after that was released,

35
00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:43,240
I suddenly got an email from the publisher and they said, look,

36
00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,240
we've got a new book that we've lined up called

37
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,759
Modern Mysteries. Would you be interested in doing it because

38
00:02:50,759 --> 00:02:53,199
we think this is your kind of bag, as it were.

39
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,800
So I said, yeah, sure, and they actually gave me

40
00:02:57,319 --> 00:03:00,719
four mysteries that they had already predecided on because they

41
00:03:00,719 --> 00:03:03,199
said that's going to be mentioned somewhere on the book

42
00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:07,800
on the on the back description, which some of the

43
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:09,960
mistress I was familiar with some of the weren't, so

44
00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,159
I had to check those out. So they had chosen

45
00:03:13,479 --> 00:03:18,919
the Diatloft Pass incident, something called the Somerton Man and

46
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:24,840
the Oakville Blobs and theme three seventy flight, which was

47
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,719
a Malaysian flight. I think I've got the number right. Oh, yes,

48
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,840
the one that went missing about.

49
00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 1: Very familiar with that, very yeah.

50
00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,319
Speaker 2: That interesting, interesting story, that one.

51
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:41,639
Speaker 1: Well, I'm very familiar with the Dayatlov Path, Yeah, correctly,

52
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,680
and what happened there. And I know a lot of

53
00:03:44,719 --> 00:03:47,120
people have looked into that. There's been a lot of

54
00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:50,719
different theories. Most people seem to think that it was

55
00:03:50,759 --> 00:03:53,360
a type of bigfoot or YETI they did it. Other

56
00:03:53,439 --> 00:03:58,599
people think that maybe in the call they got delusional

57
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,360
and ran out and rose to death. But although there

58
00:04:02,439 --> 00:04:07,240
was evidence I believe of at least one of the

59
00:04:07,319 --> 00:04:12,840
hikers was beaten brutally and had their skull crushed.

60
00:04:13,639 --> 00:04:16,839
Speaker 2: I believe, yeah, I mean, it depends on which way

61
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,920
you interpret the evidence. And the thing is, the trouble

62
00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:22,879
is because it has taken place in the Soviet Union,

63
00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,000
and we'll kind of go into the details to explain

64
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,120
to people what the Diatloft pass is for. I mean,

65
00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:29,360
we're talking because we know it, but there's people thinking,

66
00:04:29,399 --> 00:04:31,680
what the hell are we talking about. So this was

67
00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,800
a case that happened in the nineteen fifties. I think

68
00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,240
it's nineteen fifty nine, and it concerned something like nine

69
00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:44,199
young Russian students that were doing a kind of ski

70
00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:48,600
hike exercise to achieve a certain grade of achievement, kind

71
00:04:48,639 --> 00:04:51,839
of medals and certificates and things like that. And they

72
00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,879
were all experienced skiers, and they were going out in

73
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,639
January out into the Ural mountains, which is going to

74
00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,759
be pretty damn cold out there at that time of year,

75
00:05:00,759 --> 00:05:04,319
to be honest, But they were all experienced skiers. They're

76
00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:08,000
led by a young guy who's twenty three. I might

77
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,480
have got his Christian name wrong, but it could be Yury,

78
00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,480
but I may be wrong. I know that one of

79
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,439
them is called Yury Diatloff, who was I think he

80
00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:20,439
was studying to be an engineer, but the ski thing

81
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,040
was another kind of string to his bow, as it were.

82
00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,319
And they all kind of went out there on trains

83
00:05:28,399 --> 00:05:31,639
and trucks and things like that, you know, like hop

84
00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,959
in from one location to another, staying overnight at one location,

85
00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,680
meeting school kids, telling them about their adventures that were

86
00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,519
to come, and they retrieved a lot of the information

87
00:05:41,639 --> 00:05:43,759
from a daily diary that one of the young girls

88
00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:46,319
that was part of this party was keeping on a

89
00:05:46,399 --> 00:05:48,560
daily basis, and they also took lots of cameras, so

90
00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,199
there was a lot of evidence that they could look

91
00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:53,720
back on to try and work out what may have happened.

92
00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:58,560
And so when it came to the kind of third

93
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,920
or fourth day in one other party had to turn

94
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,000
back because he had got injuries from a previous expedition

95
00:06:06,079 --> 00:06:08,439
somewhere and they weren't kind of there was causing him

96
00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:12,920
grief basically, so he had to abandon the party and said,

97
00:06:13,079 --> 00:06:16,120
I've got to go back. So because of that decision,

98
00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,279
it was a faithful decision because he was the only

99
00:06:18,319 --> 00:06:20,839
one out of that group that survived by going back.

100
00:06:21,639 --> 00:06:24,519
And the group proceeded on for another ten days or so,

101
00:06:25,439 --> 00:06:29,079
and again the diary was being written on a daily basis,

102
00:06:29,959 --> 00:06:32,720
and then they heard no more from them after a

103
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:37,000
certain period of time. They couldn't obviously communicate with radios

104
00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,439
or they were meant to kind of send a message

105
00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:42,879
by I think it was telegram in those days. If

106
00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:44,839
they got to a certain town. They said, when we

107
00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,240
get to this town, we'll send you a telegram to

108
00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,600
their headquarters back at the college and we'll let you

109
00:06:50,639 --> 00:06:53,319
know how we are now. The college didn't receive a

110
00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,759
telegram on the day in question, and they just assumed

111
00:06:56,759 --> 00:06:59,439
way it must be bad whether they've been slightly delayed

112
00:06:59,639 --> 00:07:04,040
in in there. But no word was reached for many days,

113
00:07:04,079 --> 00:07:06,759
and eventually they decided to call out a search party,

114
00:07:07,439 --> 00:07:10,600
and because of the bad weather, they couldn't find them

115
00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:14,519
until at least February. They found some of the party

116
00:07:15,639 --> 00:07:18,759
out in this area which has now been named Diatlov Pass,

117
00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,319
named after the leader of this group. And there's actually

118
00:07:22,319 --> 00:07:24,480
a great, big kind of monument that marks their death

119
00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,160
and it's called their pips on it. And they found

120
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,639
them on this kind of mountain side it's actually called

121
00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,439
Death Mountain. They believe they was trekking up this mountain

122
00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,120
which is known locally as Death Mountain. So you couldn't

123
00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,639
get a more onymous kind of setting, really, And they

124
00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,319
found some were faced down in the snow by a tree,

125
00:07:43,319 --> 00:07:45,720
a cedar tree that had just been frozen. Some of

126
00:07:45,759 --> 00:07:48,399
their clothes were missing. They found the tent that they

127
00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:51,759
were all staying in completely torn and cut from the inside.

128
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,759
When they analyzed the tent, they flew off the tent

129
00:07:53,839 --> 00:07:57,399
to get forensic analysis on it, and it wasn't until

130
00:07:57,439 --> 00:08:00,879
about three months later, as the snow began to thaw,

131
00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:05,160
that the locals managed to find what they believed could

132
00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,800
be disturbances in the snow as it melted. And sure enough,

133
00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,240
when they began digging with the special police and the

134
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:15,079
military that was looking for them, they did find two

135
00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,160
bodies or was it four, three or four that had

136
00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:22,240
fallen down in sis ravine in a river. One of

137
00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,480
them they detected radioactive materials on their clothing, which was interesting,

138
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,399
and the others they had like a crushed rib cage.

139
00:08:33,919 --> 00:08:36,919
Their eyes had been pulled out, tongues have been removed.

140
00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,799
Yet the things they buried, they were buried under like

141
00:08:40,879 --> 00:08:44,600
ten feet of snow at this point. So their speculation

142
00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,600
of what caused all those injuries was it animals like

143
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,960
scavenger animals that were eating the corpses. But how could

144
00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,200
they do that they're under ten feet of snow. Maybe

145
00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,360
they ate the eyes and the tongue before the thing

146
00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,039
clapsed into the ravine, but it looked like they were

147
00:08:59,039 --> 00:09:00,879
trying to build a camp or something. In this film,

148
00:09:01,039 --> 00:09:03,600
thing had just clapped, but it could be that snow

149
00:09:03,639 --> 00:09:08,080
had fallen on them as well, causing their chest to

150
00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,279
get crushed and things. But some of them had their

151
00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,679
whole skin removed off their skull. If I mean, if

152
00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,240
you've got on the internet, you can find these pictures.

153
00:09:14,279 --> 00:09:17,519
They are quite disturbing. So I'd recommend that those of

154
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,960
a nervous disposition maybe not to venture too closely into that.

155
00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,440
But it was the fact that the deaths were covered

156
00:09:24,519 --> 00:09:26,679
up by the Soviet authorities at the time, and it's

157
00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:29,080
only when the Berlin Wall collapsed in nineteen eighty nine

158
00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,639
did this story of these nine missing skiers sort of

159
00:09:32,639 --> 00:09:37,120
come to light. And the prosecutor involved in the case,

160
00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,759
who was a guy that was essentially he was the

161
00:09:39,879 --> 00:09:43,440
lead policeman on the case. He was told to keep

162
00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:45,440
quiet about a lot of that sort of stuff, and

163
00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:50,000
he was pretty sure that it could have been involved

164
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,960
with the UFO. He think that they a lot of

165
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,279
them have been shot by what he termed a death

166
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,720
ray from a UFO because their cameras revealed photographs. Certainly

167
00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:05,159
the last shots revealed range lights in the sky. Yeah,

168
00:10:05,399 --> 00:10:09,360
I mean they did admit some years later the Soviet

169
00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:14,159
military were testing out what they call parachute mines, which

170
00:10:14,159 --> 00:10:17,159
are these mines that get launched from aeroplanes or fired

171
00:10:17,159 --> 00:10:20,039
from rockets or something. They come down on a parachute

172
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,559
and they explode near the enemy or something as they're

173
00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,600
coming down on a parachute. So that could explain potentially

174
00:10:27,639 --> 00:10:30,679
the lights that they had photographed. They didn't want to

175
00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,080
admit that they were maybe dropping these bombs in their

176
00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,879
area because they shouldn't have been doing it. But obviously,

177
00:10:35,879 --> 00:10:38,480
if this group of hikers had gone off course anyway,

178
00:10:38,879 --> 00:10:41,679
they were probably in the wrong place at the wrong time.

179
00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,799
So that was one potential explanation. But then the other

180
00:10:46,879 --> 00:10:50,240
explanation is, well, what's causing this radiation on some of

181
00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,720
the clothes you see. Now, it did turn out one

182
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:58,399
of the explanations given to kind of explain that was

183
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,399
that one of the party did work or had some

184
00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:09,840
association with a Russian atomic kind of factory or place

185
00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,039
where they were dealing with atomic and nuclear stuff, so

186
00:11:14,159 --> 00:11:17,919
that might explain some of the radiation. The important thing

187
00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,240
to note is that a lot of the clothes were

188
00:11:21,279 --> 00:11:23,759
found on these bodies were not actually their clothes, but

189
00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:27,000
they've taken from the other dead bodies, so as some

190
00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,639
died of frostbite, they would take their clothes off to

191
00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:33,320
keep for themselves to keep them warm. So they were

192
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,240
really a lot of them are freezing to death basically.

193
00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:40,080
But when they held the funerals of these people, lots

194
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,480
of eyewitnesses said that the color of the skin of

195
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,600
the corpses when they were allowed to view them, didn't

196
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:48,799
look right. They just didn't look like proper corpses. And

197
00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:53,279
so again that raised an anonymy with people about what

198
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,759
possibly could have caused that. So and again you mentioned

199
00:11:57,759 --> 00:12:00,679
a yeti or a big foot. They did site a

200
00:12:01,039 --> 00:12:04,639
kind of creature or some shadowy figure through the trees,

201
00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,960
which they did take a photograph of, but you can't

202
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,519
rediscern who it is or what it is exactly. It

203
00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,399
does look humanoid from a distance of maybe one hundred

204
00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:15,600
meters a well or so. And one of the young

205
00:12:15,639 --> 00:12:18,440
girls in a diary had written a kind of a

206
00:12:18,519 --> 00:12:21,480
jokey thing to say that we might even encounter the

207
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:23,600
yetti out here. Who knows kind of thing, you know,

208
00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,080
So there's lots of things there to kind of chew

209
00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:28,720
over and sort of think, well, what did kill these people?

210
00:12:28,919 --> 00:12:33,559
Speaker 1: You see, see, I am unfamiliar with the parts of

211
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:37,960
the story about the bodies found in the razine, in

212
00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,080
the ravine missing eyes and tongue, or the switching of clothes.

213
00:12:42,159 --> 00:12:46,919
Radiation that's all news to me. Shows you how I

214
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:51,279
should have researched it more. But it's a fascinating case

215
00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:58,200
either way, because there's so many different elements from different explanations.

216
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:04,080
I had always just assumed it was a yetty bigfoot attack,

217
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,200
but now I'm starting to change that opinion. Seems like

218
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:11,480
there is a lot more going on.

219
00:13:12,159 --> 00:13:15,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I mean, they did find some bodies that

220
00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:19,000
died they think earlier than the others. And the best

221
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:22,519
explanation is that some died and when they died, they

222
00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:25,279
stole their clothes or took them respectfully off them to

223
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,279
help them survive. But the thing is what caused them

224
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:31,440
to suddenly cut their way out of the tent. So

225
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:34,799
one of the other explanations, one of the more mundane explanations,

226
00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:40,200
is what they call a slab ice avalanche, where they

227
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,039
think that an avalanche of literally slab ice is slid

228
00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:46,480
down the mountain toward them. They could probably hear it

229
00:13:46,519 --> 00:13:48,639
coming down the mountain towards them before it it actually

230
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,960
struck the tent because they found the tent half buried

231
00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,519
in snow anyway, and so to find their way out quickly,

232
00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:58,559
can we get the zip open or the buttons undone

233
00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,080
of our tent or whatever is that holds it together,

234
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,519
And they just took a knife and cut their way

235
00:14:03,519 --> 00:14:06,200
out quickly and then ran out the tent to get

236
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:10,240
out the way of this oncoming slab ice. Really that

237
00:14:10,399 --> 00:14:13,039
may have killed a few of them, or they may

238
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,240
have buried a few up to their necks in snow,

239
00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:17,759
and they may have dug their way out. But then

240
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,360
some of them seem to have like a burn marks

241
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,200
on their hands and arms, which could have been caused

242
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,360
by campfires. Others seem to have bruises on their face,

243
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,279
looked like someone had punched them up or something like that.

244
00:14:29,679 --> 00:14:32,720
So there was other people that sort of said, well,

245
00:14:32,759 --> 00:14:35,799
maybe they've been beaten up by the Russian military or something,

246
00:14:35,919 --> 00:14:40,919
you know, keep quiet about whatever we're doing here, and

247
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,039
threatened them, or they may have been killed by the

248
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,759
local populace, which is the people that lived out in

249
00:14:45,759 --> 00:14:50,519
those areas that herd it reindeer. So lots of people

250
00:14:50,559 --> 00:14:54,879
came under suspicion. But the guy that was the prosecutor

251
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,120
found that his hands were tied to a certain extent

252
00:14:58,159 --> 00:15:01,879
because he felt that he couldn't proceed too much digging

253
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:04,399
further into it because it was rough aled a few

254
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,360
feathers higher up the chain, and so a lot of

255
00:15:07,399 --> 00:15:10,679
it is a mystery simply because people are not willing

256
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:15,279
to divulge the nature of what's happened within the Russian

257
00:15:15,279 --> 00:15:18,559
government at that time and what happened out in the mountains,

258
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:21,159
and basically lots of people lost their jobs are allowing

259
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:25,159
them to go out there, and they forbid people to

260
00:15:25,159 --> 00:15:26,960
go into their air i for another three or four

261
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,320
years after the event happened. I guess they just wanted

262
00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,159
to make sure that things weren't going to go or

263
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,159
it gave them time to clear away evidence that they

264
00:15:34,159 --> 00:15:36,279
didn't want people to find. Maybe I don't know, but

265
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:39,879
it's a very hard to get to place anyway. People

266
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,799
obviously still go there, but only they're very determined, you know,

267
00:15:42,919 --> 00:15:46,039
those that are perhaps experienced hikers with people that know

268
00:15:46,080 --> 00:15:50,519
the way around there. But it's a very strange case.

269
00:15:50,519 --> 00:15:53,399
I mean, some people speculated it could be UFOs that

270
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:57,000
are doing what they call human mutilations and things. Can't

271
00:15:57,039 --> 00:16:01,759
prove it, but it's one sort of like possibility, considering

272
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,840
that the head guy that was investigating it did think

273
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,360
it was UFOs, and certainly there was reports from other

274
00:16:09,440 --> 00:16:12,080
people that believed they'd seen UFOs and lights in the

275
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:16,320
sky as well, which may not be those parachute bombs.

276
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:20,120
They could have been genuine UFOs, but who knows. Who knows.

277
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 1: Fascinating case. I mean, I don't think we're ever going

278
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,200
to give the full answers for it because it happened

279
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:31,320
so long ago under the Soviet Union. So but it's

280
00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,159
a fascinating mystery.

281
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:37,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those ones that every few years

282
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:41,360
people seem to like have another crack at it, basically,

283
00:16:41,559 --> 00:16:44,879
And I know that in about twenty eighteen or nineteen

284
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:47,240
they sent a team out there to come up with

285
00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:50,759
some various theories, and then more recently about twenty twenty

286
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,080
three twenty four, another team went out there to try

287
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,320
and come up with some theories. And the only explanation

288
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:03,519
the Offishy came up with they were by some powerful force,

289
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,519
but they didn't really explain what that powerful force was

290
00:17:06,759 --> 00:17:11,240
whether it's of nature or of man or or something offworldly.

291
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:13,319
They didn't really go into detail, so it was a

292
00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,440
very abstract kind of explanation of what killed them.

293
00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 1: There's something that I've been really interested in studying lately,

294
00:17:23,279 --> 00:17:25,680
which may or may not have anything to do with

295
00:17:25,759 --> 00:17:30,240
this case. But it's all the stories out of in

296
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,319
the US, out of Appalachia, and there's stories where the

297
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:42,200
locals have rules because there's so many incidents of high strangeness,

298
00:17:43,079 --> 00:17:48,960
different creatures, Bigfoot especially, but like a big Gallin like creature,

299
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:56,119
which is it's crazy as hell. But some of the

300
00:17:56,160 --> 00:18:00,720
things that you're mentioning from this story to fit in

301
00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:06,359
with this unexplainable high strangeness that's happening in the Appalachian Mountains.

302
00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:11,960
People hearing their names being called in the woods. The

303
00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:16,720
rules of Appalachia are at night, you close all your

304
00:18:16,759 --> 00:18:19,839
windows lines, you know, so you nothing can look in.

305
00:18:20,039 --> 00:18:23,480
You can't look out. If you're outside and you hear

306
00:18:23,519 --> 00:18:27,640
your name called, no you didn't. If you hear whistling,

307
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:32,839
no you didn't. If you see anything, you turntail and

308
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,279
walk away. Don't run because that, you know, kicks in

309
00:18:37,319 --> 00:18:41,359
a predator response. If you run, yes, but there's so

310
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:45,319
many strange stories and there are places in the world

311
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,839
that are just like this. I mean, you have the

312
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:54,720
Bridgewater Triangle up in Massachusetts. You have what's that forest

313
00:18:54,799 --> 00:18:59,400
in Romania with the big open circle area, and people

314
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,400
have had a lot of experiences in that. It's been

315
00:19:01,519 --> 00:19:03,160
years since I've talked about that. That's why I can't

316
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,759
remember the name of it. Just certain places of high

317
00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:12,400
strangeness around the world that it really, you know, twists

318
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,680
reality or what we think of as reality.

319
00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, we mentioned Bigfoot there, and obviously we talked about

320
00:19:18,799 --> 00:19:22,039
Bigfoot in the Atloft Pass incident. Could there be a

321
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,880
yetti or something involved in that one. But one of

322
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,279
the other mysteries I cover in the book is the

323
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:33,119
Bigfoot mystery. Because the dictator of the book is that

324
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,880
I had to cover mysteries from the twentieth century to

325
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,960
present day. I couldn't go way back into the past

326
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,240
and say, well, who built the pyramids? That's a mystery

327
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,319
that wasn't part of the remit on the book. So,

328
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:47,880
I mean, one of the very first mysteries I picked

329
00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,759
up on was about a lighthouse where three of the

330
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,960
lighthouse keepers in nineteen oh one literally just at the

331
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,440
turn of the twentieth century went missing, possibly caused by

332
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,519
a freak way that pulled them all out to sea.

333
00:20:04,279 --> 00:20:07,039
But one of the later ministries I covered was the Bigfoot,

334
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:12,759
and that began around in the nineteen fifties, but people

335
00:20:12,839 --> 00:20:16,079
had already heard of something similar because when people started

336
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,640
to go up Mount Everest and in the Himalayas, there

337
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:24,240
was talk of seeing strange, large, ape like hairy creatures

338
00:20:24,319 --> 00:20:26,799
up there. They certainly found footprints in the snow, and

339
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,359
they even measured them with their pickaxes to kind of

340
00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,440
get a rough gauge of how big these footprints were.

341
00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,799
And usually when these mountaineers were up the mountains, they

342
00:20:37,799 --> 00:20:40,039
could look down into the valley and they could see

343
00:20:40,039 --> 00:20:42,400
these figures. They'd stand out a mile, these great, big,

344
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,400
dark figures against the snow. And it was believed that

345
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:50,000
these creatures YETI or the Bigfoot, were walking from one

346
00:20:50,079 --> 00:20:54,720
mountain range to another to find food, you know, sourcing

347
00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:59,000
food in the valley or something. And the name of

348
00:20:59,039 --> 00:21:02,279
the Abominable Snowmen and became known about around that time.

349
00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:07,119
That was actually a mistranslation from the Nepalese people. So

350
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,240
because they smelled rather like bigfoot in the US and Canada,

351
00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:15,200
they got this skuncake kind of description of smelling. I

352
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,519
think it the same applies to all these bigfoot creatures

353
00:21:17,559 --> 00:21:21,119
around the world. And what they were trying to describe

354
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:26,240
was the bad smelling creature man hairy man. But the

355
00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:29,039
translation came out wrong, and the guy who translated it

356
00:21:29,039 --> 00:21:33,200
can only come up with the word abominable snowman because

357
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,160
he couldn't come up with smelly old hairy man or

358
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,839
something whichever this translation might become to. So I guess

359
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,200
he maybe made it more palatable for the Western Ears

360
00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:43,480
or something, but he called it the abominable snowman. And

361
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:45,359
it's a strange thing. Why was it called a bonninable?

362
00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:47,720
But I think that kind of explains it really. But

363
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:50,599
it was later on when loggers were kind of like

364
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:55,119
making roads in various forests in the US and Canada

365
00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:58,799
that they discovered lots of their equipment went missing or

366
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,839
was messed around with, and then they started to find footprints.

367
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,319
And what was happening as people become more industrialised, they're

368
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:07,720
digging their way into these forests and that's where these

369
00:22:07,759 --> 00:22:11,519
creatures are allegedly living, and so they're kind of defending

370
00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:14,039
their territory or trying to warn them off or something,

371
00:22:14,279 --> 00:22:17,880
or just curious, and that's when they're finding evidence of them.

372
00:22:18,279 --> 00:22:21,279
And so the mystery the Bigfoot really started from there.

373
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:25,039
And that's when people that had actually gone into the

374
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:31,000
forests years before as a single gold prospectors who have

375
00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:33,319
encountered as they would read about these articles in these

376
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,680
magazines some thirty or forty years later and said, well,

377
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,079
I've seen these things, but thirty or forty years ago,

378
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,920
you know, in nineteen fifteen or nineteen twenty. Albert Osman

379
00:22:43,039 --> 00:22:46,079
being a case point of that's what brought him for

380
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,440
because he saw a magazine article about the Bigfoot, and

381
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:51,920
so he stepped forward and says, well, I've seen one too,

382
00:22:52,039 --> 00:22:54,319
but it was in nineteen twenty six, and that's where

383
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,279
he encountered a family of bigfoot and he stayed with

384
00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:00,160
them for like six days, not voluntary, other dad he

385
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,279
was kept prisoner and he managed to escape after he

386
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,880
managed to persuade the old man Bigfoot to try some

387
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,839
of his snuff, and once he was distracted by the

388
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,839
powerful smell of snuff up his nostrils, that's when he

389
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:13,880
grabbed his gun and ran the hell out there.

390
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,720
Speaker 1: He said, well, that's a very famous case. I remember

391
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:21,480
reading about that many years ago. And the same year

392
00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:26,319
there was the other case up around Mount Saint Helens

393
00:23:27,319 --> 00:23:30,960
in an area what would later be called Ape Canyon,

394
00:23:31,039 --> 00:23:35,720
where these miners were working and they had a little

395
00:23:35,759 --> 00:23:40,680
cabin and one day one of them saw what was

396
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:46,240
probably a bigfoot type creature and they shot it and

397
00:23:46,599 --> 00:23:51,039
the creature fell into the canyon dead, and that's how

398
00:23:51,039 --> 00:23:53,759
it got the name Ape Canyon. But then that night

399
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,160
they were attacked all night long by several of these

400
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,680
creatures trying to break again to get at them in

401
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,440
this cabin. They were bounding at the door, which they barricaded,

402
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:07,279
They were trying to come through the roof. They were

403
00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:11,640
kept shooting at them. It was a really hairy bar

404
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,160
in the pun experience. And the next morning they finally

405
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,599
were able to get out of there. The creatures retreated,

406
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,839
but there's all these big boulders and rocks all around

407
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,799
the cabin and they got out of there. So but yeah,

408
00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:31,400
that happened the same year as Albert Osmand's experience.

409
00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 2: It's interesting that you mentioned Mountain Helens because they believe

410
00:24:35,039 --> 00:24:39,079
that when Mountain Helen's the volcano that was there went

411
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,599
off in nineteen eighty. I think it was a massive,

412
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,160
ferocious eruption. They believed that a lot of the possible

413
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:53,039
sasquatches maybe had to move out the area because of that,

414
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,359
and so they ended up taking up new territories and

415
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,359
more sightings increased because of that, and possibly some were

416
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:01,480
killed in the lava flow, perhaps if they didn't get

417
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:08,000
away or died of ash inhalation maybe or something. So yeah,

418
00:25:08,039 --> 00:25:12,359
with the Bigfoot chapter, I also cover the story of

419
00:25:12,559 --> 00:25:16,440
a guy that actually claimed, similar to your log cabin story,

420
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,759
would claimed to have shot one, but he didn't want

421
00:25:18,759 --> 00:25:22,000
to admit to shooting it because someone like a lawyer

422
00:25:22,039 --> 00:25:24,400
pointed out to him saying, look, if if we managed

423
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,720
to identify this creature and may prove that it's at

424
00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:31,519
least half human, because you've shot it, you could be

425
00:25:31,559 --> 00:25:35,359
had up for murder and your name's on the block

426
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,799
sort of thing. So he would kind of allude to

427
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,640
it being shot, but he would not admit to actually

428
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,720
shooting it. So he came up with the whole kind

429
00:25:45,799 --> 00:25:51,240
of varied stories. Oh, it was found in Japan, or

430
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,480
it was brought across by the Russians on an old

431
00:25:54,519 --> 00:25:56,880
boat or something like that, and then eventually he did

432
00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:58,680
say that he shot it, and it was known as

433
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:02,240
a Minnesota Iceman. And then there was this guy who

434
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,480
was out hunting with his friends looking for deer to shoot,

435
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,240
and he came across I think it was three big

436
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:11,279
foot that possibly they might have actually been eating his

437
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:14,519
kill that he had shot, and he went up to them,

438
00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:17,400
and then one of them leapt up in the air

439
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,119
towards him or something, and so he just shot, I

440
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,039
presume instinctively for defense, and the others they must have

441
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,799
run off, because he doesn't really mention them, but he

442
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,680
shot it, and he was shocked. He didn't know what

443
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,119
to do with it, so he left it. It was

444
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,880
about five or six days later he decided they preyed

445
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:35,440
on his mind too much. He's got to go back

446
00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:37,200
there and find his creature. And he found it there,

447
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:39,920
buried in the snow by this point, and he put

448
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,200
it in his pickup truck and he brought it back

449
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,759
to his wife and says, oh, by the way, we

450
00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:47,440
need the freezer now for this thing, So get your

451
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,119
peas and beef out. We're going to put this thing

452
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:53,680
in the freezer. And they got this great big chest

453
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,759
freezer or something. They put it down in this freezer

454
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,200
and basically they toured this around the United States. It's

455
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,680
a carnivals fairs, shopping malls as the Minnesota Riceman, charging people,

456
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:07,640
you know, fifty cents or whatever at that time to

457
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,039
go in there between nineteen sixty seven to about nineteen

458
00:27:11,799 --> 00:27:16,200
seventy eight or something like that. And Frank Hanson I think,

459
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:20,640
was the guy that did this. Now there was some

460
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,200
people he called in, some experts to come and kind

461
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,559
of give it some authority. What was the kind of

462
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,000
science and the biology of this creature that he had found.

463
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,240
And they these two guys that were top bilagist of

464
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,400
the day. One was Belgium, I can't remember the names now,

465
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,240
and one was English. I think they were invited to

466
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:41,680
go in during the winter months when this thing wasn't

467
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,200
on tour, and they spent three days examining this corpse

468
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,880
of this big foot for want of a bet of

469
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,400
a word, this hairy creature that had been shot and

470
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,240
they said it was buried under this ice with a

471
00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,079
glass cover, and at first they thought it was fake.

472
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:00,160
They was very suspicious, but they said, let me to you.

473
00:28:00,279 --> 00:28:02,440
After three days of examine this thing close up. We

474
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,200
came to the conclusion and this was once a real, living,

475
00:28:05,279 --> 00:28:09,000
breathing creature. And they said one of its eyes was missing,

476
00:28:09,319 --> 00:28:11,240
and the other eye had popped out and was hanging

477
00:28:11,559 --> 00:28:13,680
sort of down on its cheek. They said, that's possibly

478
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,680
because of the force of the other eye popping out,

479
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,000
may have popped the other one out. Its hand was

480
00:28:19,079 --> 00:28:20,599
up like that. And now you think, oh, that's because

481
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,480
it's trying to stop itself getting shot. But if you

482
00:28:22,519 --> 00:28:25,799
actually think about it, this creature has never encountered a

483
00:28:25,799 --> 00:28:29,039
man before, likely never understood what a gun was, so

484
00:28:29,079 --> 00:28:31,160
it wouldn't even understand that a bullet is coming out

485
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,119
towards it at twice a speed of sound. So there's

486
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:35,680
no way that it would even want to put its

487
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,559
hand up instinctively. It may have put its hand up

488
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:41,440
instinctly as it fell forward, perhaps to stop the fall.

489
00:28:41,559 --> 00:28:44,680
That's my explanation anyway, But its hand is found frozen

490
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,279
in that position just above its head, and they reckoned

491
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,480
it was a young male, possibly about twelve thirteen years

492
00:28:51,519 --> 00:28:53,880
of age, but it was at least six foot something.

493
00:28:54,839 --> 00:28:59,000
But it was a hairy, hairy person, and you could

494
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,920
see where the blood had oozed out of it, and

495
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:03,960
it all kind of bubbled in the water that had

496
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,920
now become ice, And they basically gave it the thumbs

497
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,039
up and said, this is definitely a real creature, and

498
00:29:12,079 --> 00:29:15,759
they wrote a book about it. And sometime after that,

499
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:22,920
the Minnesota Iceman disappeared off the tour circuit thing and

500
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,200
it was supposedly replaced by some sort of dummy that

501
00:29:26,359 --> 00:29:29,039
was there instead. Now, I looked at photoglass on the

502
00:29:29,079 --> 00:29:31,240
Internet of this creature and it didn't have the ice

503
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,799
on or the glass on. So I suspected the pictures

504
00:29:33,839 --> 00:29:36,880
I was looking at was the dummy, because this looked

505
00:29:37,079 --> 00:29:39,319
kind of there's no ice there or blood or anything

506
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:39,759
like that.

507
00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:43,519
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the pictures of it in ice.

508
00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: And I've seen some of the in case in ice pictures. Yes,

509
00:29:47,559 --> 00:29:51,640
so you can kind of sense that what they've got

510
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680
in ice was was real. Because he also the guy

511
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,839
that was studying it, He said, as they leant across

512
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:01,119
the glass to study it, their weight cracked the glass

513
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,079
below them and there was a breakage, and then they

514
00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:07,119
could start to smell the smell of rotten flesh coming

515
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:11,559
up through this cracked ice, which to them said that's

516
00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:16,640
definitely something real in this box, you know. So, yeah,

517
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,039
it was definitely given the seal of approval, as it were,

518
00:30:20,079 --> 00:30:24,319
by these two biologists zoologists. But of course if you

519
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:26,599
go to Wikipedia, it's a different kettle fish you're going

520
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:27,960
to be presented with.

521
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:28,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the problem.

522
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 2: Don't go to Wikipedia. No, go to that at all.

523
00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: Well, there's another story similar to that. I don't know

524
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,440
if over there, if you remember Art Bell, Yeah, yeah, okay,

525
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:47,920
when he was still doing Coast to Coast many years ago,

526
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,119
he had a he got a fax from a guy

527
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:56,640
who claimed to have killed two bigfoots. Oh, and he

528
00:30:56,759 --> 00:30:59,359
was very paranoid about coming out. He didn't want to

529
00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,240
be found out out for the exact reason of he

530
00:31:03,319 --> 00:31:05,680
didn't know if these things were human or not, and

531
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,640
he was afraid of getting charged with murder. But then

532
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,960
he eventually came forward on the air and told his story.

533
00:31:12,279 --> 00:31:15,000
I think, I mean by the name of Buzz. But

534
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:21,519
he and a buddy were out hunting and they came

535
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:26,440
across one of the creatures, a big male, and they

536
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,640
shot it and it struggled, fell back into the bushes

537
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,119
or whatnot, And Buzz, I guess was brave enough to

538
00:31:35,119 --> 00:31:38,920
go back in and look for it, and it was dead.

539
00:31:39,119 --> 00:31:42,240
But then all of a sudden, a female attacked them

540
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,200
and they wound up shooting it too.

541
00:31:45,839 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 2: Wow, so it killed.

542
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:49,920
Speaker 1: Both of them. And then when they realized they took

543
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,920
a good look at what these creatures were, they started panicking.

544
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:59,039
It's like, I think we murdered someone. And so they

545
00:31:59,079 --> 00:32:05,000
wound up burying the two corpses and then vowing never

546
00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:07,640
to speak of it again. So it took him about

547
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,000
thirty years later to come out on Art Bell's show.

548
00:32:11,839 --> 00:32:15,599
And when you listen to this gentleman speak, he sounds

549
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,920
very sincere, sounds very scared, paranoid of being found out

550
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,119
who he is because he doesn't.

551
00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: Want to go to jail.

552
00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:27,759
Speaker 1: And he came on a couple of times. But it

553
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:32,119
was a really interesting and very believable story. Now I

554
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,079
feel bad that they had to kill two bigfoot just

555
00:32:35,119 --> 00:32:39,920
because they didn't know what they were, but yeah, it's

556
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:44,599
just another story of human encounters with Bigfoot that didn't

557
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,200
turn out so well.

558
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, the thing is, given the number of

559
00:32:48,799 --> 00:32:53,920
signs of Bigfoot over the years, it doesn't surprise me

560
00:32:54,119 --> 00:32:56,400
that there are people that have come across them and

561
00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:58,799
killed them, and you think, well, surely we should be

562
00:32:58,839 --> 00:33:02,440
hearing about this, but you're hearing bits of it. People

563
00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,960
are very reluctant to tell you about it. They've done it,

564
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:08,000
you know, because of this thing of getting into trouble,

565
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,720
and you know, it would be amazing if they could

566
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:17,039
bring one forward, but I think in today's world it'd

567
00:33:17,079 --> 00:33:20,720
be a very hot potato to deal with. And this

568
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:22,759
is possibly why they don't want to admit to it,

569
00:33:22,799 --> 00:33:26,039
because it throws up all these questions about our evolution.

570
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,240
Where did we come from? You know, were we created

571
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,920
by God as Adam and Eve or did we come

572
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,559
from apes? Or is there some other genetic connection there

573
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:38,559
that we don't want to explain, you know, And that

574
00:33:38,599 --> 00:33:41,079
could lead into the whole alien thing where our DNA's

575
00:33:41,319 --> 00:33:44,759
allegedly being tampered with, and you know, maybe we've been

576
00:33:44,799 --> 00:33:47,440
mixed with the Neanderthal man and that's what the big

577
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,880
Foot is, et cetera, et cetera, And it opens up

578
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:54,400
a whole kind of keg of problems for people.

579
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: I think, well, there are also stories, two different types

580
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,519
of stories. Some people who have seen Bigfoot or or

581
00:34:03,599 --> 00:34:10,280
these these creatures receive men in black visits to shut

582
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,960
up and don't tell their stories. But there are also

583
00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:21,440
a lot of stories surrounding these creatures that go beyond

584
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:26,119
our version of reality. They seem to be able to

585
00:34:26,159 --> 00:34:30,360
appear and disappear at will, footsteps that go or down

586
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,360
a path and then just stop, they're no longer there.

587
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,440
People see one and then all of a sudden it's gone,

588
00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:41,840
peeking out from behind a tree. Some researchers who've caught

589
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:45,400
some on thermal you'll see a head and shoulders and

590
00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:47,920
arm peeking up from behind a tree. It goes back

591
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,719
behind the tree and they walk up to it and

592
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,880
there's nothing there. So there's a lot of you know,

593
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,920
there's also stories of bigfoots being seen with UFOs and

594
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:04,639
things like that. But yeah, there's a very interdimensional quality

595
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:08,920
that seems to be surrounding these creatures, at least from

596
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,559
a lot of the stories that people have told.

597
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 2: Yes, that's right. It seems there's lots of people that

598
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,360
are into the zoology sort of stuff, the cryptozoology. They

599
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:23,000
won't entertain the idea of Bigfoot coming out of a

600
00:35:23,119 --> 00:35:27,119
UFO or anything like that, whereas I'm open to the

601
00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:29,599
whole idea if they come out of UFOs. I mean

602
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,559
there could be two types. There's the natural ones that

603
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:35,119
we have on our earth and then the one that

604
00:35:35,199 --> 00:35:39,320
could be domesticated that are then put to use by

605
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,639
et or whoever. There was an encounter. I never mentioned

606
00:35:43,679 --> 00:35:45,679
this in the book, but I've done this in a presentation.

607
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,599
There was an encounter by an Italian guy that was

608
00:35:48,639 --> 00:35:53,519
traveling late at night through the mountains of Italy. He

609
00:35:53,599 --> 00:35:55,559
was on his way to stay at his aunt's house,

610
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:57,480
who owned a hotel, I think, and he was on

611
00:35:57,519 --> 00:35:59,360
his way to her, but because of the snowy weather

612
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:02,679
to pull over and just weighe it out during the night.

613
00:36:03,079 --> 00:36:06,400
But he saw this glowing disc craft down in the valleys,

614
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:08,440
so he walked down towards to take a closer look,

615
00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:12,119
and a robot type creature was outside the craft. And

616
00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:14,320
then down this shaft of light or a lift or

617
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,559
something appeared a alien with catlike eyes, and he started

618
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:20,119
to speak to him, and he spoke to him about

619
00:36:20,119 --> 00:36:22,960
many many things. But one of the things he mentioned

620
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,639
was that on their planet, or where he came from,

621
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:30,679
they have ape like creatures that do their menial tasks

622
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:34,280
for them. And I thought that was interesting because that

623
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,079
might explain a lot about these bigfoot that come out

624
00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:41,239
of these craft. It's almost like you get if you

625
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:43,159
think back to the film The Day of the Earth

626
00:36:43,199 --> 00:36:46,400
Stood Still, you got the nine foot tall gore I

627
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,079
think his name is Robot that aids Michael Rennie. He

628
00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:51,960
could be a sort of the Bigfoot, could be a

629
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,880
more gorilla type version of that as an aid for

630
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,159
the aliens in some way. But yeah, it's an interesting connection.

631
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,920
But whether we get to the bottom of it, I

632
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:04,360
don't know.

633
00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 1: Well, there's one incident that was recorded by the KNIDS

634
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,599
team National Institute for Discovery Science, who spent twenty something

635
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:24,920
years investigating the Skinwalker Ranch in Utah, And there was

636
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,760
a book that one of the researchers wrote with George Knapp,

637
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:35,280
who's an investigative journalists, And there was one night two

638
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:40,079
investigators from the team were out using night vision out

639
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:43,320
near one of the old homesteads that were there, Homestead two,

640
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,679
and they started to see only through the night vision,

641
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:53,360
not in with their eyes, a light form near the

642
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,880
ground and then started getting bigger and bigger and formed

643
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,199
like a ring, and then this big what type creature

644
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,760
crawled through it like it was crawling out of a

645
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,079
tunnel came out, stood up and ran into the woods.

646
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:08,119
Speaker 2: Wow.

647
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 1: And then that that tunnel or portal whatever it was,

648
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,239
strength back down and then disappeared. The only bad thing

649
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:22,000
about that whole thing is they didn't have any video

650
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,039
on it. They didn't that cameras technology back then did

651
00:38:25,119 --> 00:38:29,679
not have recording capabilities like the newer ones do now.

652
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:35,239
So it's just a story. But it's interesting, and that's

653
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,760
another reason why I love Skinwalker Ranch, like some of

654
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,719
these other places that seemed to be a mecca of

655
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:43,159
high strangeness.

656
00:38:43,519 --> 00:38:46,119
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the thing is, even if you got

657
00:38:46,159 --> 00:38:49,239
footage of that kind of thing happening today, the atization

658
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,840
will be thrown out. Well, that's just you know, CGII

659
00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:56,119
or something like that, you know, And that's the problem

660
00:38:56,159 --> 00:38:58,400
with people face they're going to get. You can give

661
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,639
the best evidence, and it's always to be shot down.

662
00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:02,960
That's being created something on a computer. There must be

663
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,679
a way of identifying what's AI and what's real through

664
00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:08,239
versual is.

665
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:14,519
Speaker 1: Actually you could run any photos or video through AI

666
00:39:15,079 --> 00:39:18,559
like chat, GPT or others, Yeah, and ask it to

667
00:39:18,639 --> 00:39:22,239
look for markers that it was created by AI. I

668
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,960
had a photo that somebody sent me once that looked

669
00:39:26,039 --> 00:39:31,559
suspiciously like like CGI or or an AI creation, and

670
00:39:31,599 --> 00:39:33,760
I ran it through chat GPT and it did all

671
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,039
these checks and he came back and said everything that

672
00:39:37,079 --> 00:39:38,440
it could see it was genuine.

673
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:40,559
Speaker 2: Wow. That's interesting.

674
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: So there are ways to get around it. But I

675
00:39:44,079 --> 00:39:48,760
also warned people who are on social media, whether it's TikTok, YouTube,

676
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,280
any of these channels where these people share footage of

677
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:57,480
supposed bigfoots, there's a lot of AI creations out there now,

678
00:39:57,519 --> 00:39:59,800
and you can't take anything at face value.

679
00:40:00,159 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that reminds me. I talk a lot

680
00:40:03,519 --> 00:40:07,880
about on the Bigfoot chapter about the Patty Film, the

681
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,840
so called Patty Film that was filming Bluff Creek in

682
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:19,400
northern California by Roger Patterson and Bob Gimblin, who two cowboys,

683
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,199
although they were kind of not official cowboys, I guess,

684
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:23,719
I don't know really what the term would be, but

685
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:26,840
they were riding horses. They look like cowboys to me anyway.

686
00:40:27,119 --> 00:40:31,880
But they had spent about three or four days, I think,

687
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,599
going through this part of the area because they had

688
00:40:34,599 --> 00:40:37,920
heard there was footprints of Bigfoot in the area, and

689
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,920
it is known that Roger Patterson was trying to make

690
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,920
a documentary about Bigfoot. He had an interest in it,

691
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,480
and he persuaded Bob Gimblin to accompany him. And they'd

692
00:40:47,519 --> 00:40:51,079
just come around the creek of this small river where

693
00:40:51,119 --> 00:40:53,880
they suddenly, I think, he said, the horses detected at first.

694
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,199
They must have smelt it or something, you know, and

695
00:40:56,199 --> 00:40:59,320
they got a bit itchy and the horse started to

696
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:02,760
rear up. I think Bob Gimman fell off his horse.

697
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:04,880
And that's the point, he said. When he got off

698
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:06,639
the horse, or fell off the horse and he recovered,

699
00:41:06,639 --> 00:41:10,199
he saw the bigfoot stand up and start to walk

700
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:15,719
away from them. So he shouted over to did I say,

701
00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:20,679
Bob g Yeah, he shouted across to Bob Gimlin, cover

702
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,239
me because he had a rifle, and so he was

703
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,079
looking at it through his rifle, and he said he

704
00:41:25,119 --> 00:41:27,000
didn't want to shoot the thing, but he was covered

705
00:41:27,039 --> 00:41:29,840
in just in case. And he said that he managed

706
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,639
to film. Roger Pattinson he managed to film on this

707
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,800
I think of a sixteen milimeter camera that he had hired,

708
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,320
about two or three minutes of this bigfoot walking across

709
00:41:39,639 --> 00:41:42,480
and that has become one of the big favorites of

710
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,559
Bigfoot fans around the world, and in this modern day

711
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:48,880
and age now they've had people analyze it and freeze

712
00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,519
the frame and enhance and everything like that. And they've

713
00:41:51,519 --> 00:41:58,760
had people that were experts in anthropology. Jeff Meldrum, I

714
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,440
think his name Jeff More. Yeah, he just he passed

715
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,880
away a few months ago, didn't he. Yeah, But he

716
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:06,599
was a big fan of it. He had come out

717
00:42:06,599 --> 00:42:09,559
and said, if you just study the muscles on the

718
00:42:09,599 --> 00:42:11,920
back of this creature and its calf muscles and things

719
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,360
like that, you can see these muscles ripple. And he said,

720
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:17,079
now with the aid of this technology, you can see

721
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:19,760
it a lot clearer, and you know, you can see

722
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,280
the way the feet walk and everything. And you know,

723
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:24,800
you get the skeptics saying, oh, you can see the zipper,

724
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,719
but where is the zipper. There's no zipper on this thing.

725
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,199
You point it out, you know, there's no zipper. And

726
00:42:30,519 --> 00:42:32,519
they've even had a guy that claimed that he was

727
00:42:32,519 --> 00:42:35,400
a big foot from the nineteen sixty seven film and

728
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,079
he's been filmed walking in a kind of big foot costume,

729
00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:42,039
but he looks nothing like this Patty at all.

730
00:42:44,079 --> 00:42:46,639
Speaker 1: As the costumes they've tried to use the debunk it

731
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:52,559
or look fake as hell. They're obviously who would come

732
00:42:52,679 --> 00:42:58,599
up with the idea of making this creature a female yes,

733
00:42:58,639 --> 00:43:02,719
with breasts? Yes, yeah, I mean anybody who is going

734
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,400
to try to make a Bigfoot movie, especially back then,

735
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:08,639
put a guy in a suit and just a regular

736
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,760
gorilla suit or whatnot and walk across. I mean we

737
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:16,440
are talking nineteen sixty seven here or sixty eight sixty seven. Yeah, yeah,

738
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:22,039
so the technology didn't exist back then, but to put

739
00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:27,039
that extra detail into the video, you can't tell me

740
00:43:27,119 --> 00:43:29,480
that was fake. Plus, I agree, I've seen the video

741
00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:34,159
examined by multiple anthropologists. They talk about the muscles under

742
00:43:34,199 --> 00:43:38,199
the fur, how the arms are longer down by the knees,

743
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,119
and the gate and the way it walked. I mean,

744
00:43:41,159 --> 00:43:42,440
I totally believe it's real.

745
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, me too. I kind of agree with Dr

746
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,239
Jeff Maldron based upon his expertise that leads me to

747
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:57,159
think that it's definitely a real creature. And the other

748
00:43:57,199 --> 00:44:00,400
thing about it is that he makes a comparison with

749
00:44:00,519 --> 00:44:02,599
the Planet of the Apes films that were coming out

750
00:44:02,639 --> 00:44:05,719
around that time. The original Planet of the Apes films

751
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:09,679
with the latex facial masks or appliance that they'd put

752
00:44:09,679 --> 00:44:12,360
on their faces. And he particularly points out in an

753
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,039
interview that I've seen with him, he says, if you

754
00:44:14,079 --> 00:44:16,719
go to the sequel film, which like nineteen sixty nine,

755
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,960
nineteen seventy Beneath the Planet the Apes, they actually have

756
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:23,239
a shot of these gorillas in a kind of sauna

757
00:44:23,679 --> 00:44:26,719
taking a sauna thing. And he said, these things just

758
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:31,199
like a great, big furry kind of fur coats sitting

759
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,599
on him, and said they look like big furry Pillsbury

760
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:37,159
dough boys. They're terrible costumes, he said, they look really awful.

761
00:44:37,639 --> 00:44:39,400
And he said, but that was the best they had

762
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,000
at the time. And there was also a guy that

763
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,079
he was employed by Hollywood, and I think he might

764
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:53,440
have been from Czechoslovakia. And I forget the guy's name,

765
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,440
but he was always the guy that dressed up as

766
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:59,559
the ape or the monster in lots of horror films

767
00:44:59,559 --> 00:45:03,280
of the fifth ffties and the sixties, and he had

768
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:07,239
the best effects applied to him. And even he said,

769
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,079
I think it's a genuine Bigfoot. And yet he would

770
00:45:11,119 --> 00:45:12,960
know the top effects of the day and what they're

771
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,159
capable of. And the guy who did the effects for

772
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:21,440
the Planet the Apes, the makeup effects was John Chambers

773
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:23,840
who he actually received an oscar for his special effects

774
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,719
on Planet the Apes. And when he was in retirement

775
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,480
home after he had not worked for many years, someone

776
00:45:30,519 --> 00:45:34,639
had got into the retirement home like an investigative report

777
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,599
or someone like that, but they dressed up as a

778
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,480
nurse to make out they were part of the retirement

779
00:45:40,519 --> 00:45:43,119
home to get his trust, I think, and then they

780
00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,000
would talk to him and they said to him, so

781
00:45:46,400 --> 00:45:50,559
what do you think about that Bigfoot filmed in northern

782
00:45:50,559 --> 00:45:54,639
California And he said, well, he says, I'm good, but

783
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:58,079
are not that good? Meaning he's not as good as

784
00:45:58,119 --> 00:46:01,079
whoever did the effects if there were effects of this

785
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:06,000
makeup on this patty creature. And so that kind of

786
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:08,519
is a strong statement to make. You've got the top

787
00:46:08,519 --> 00:46:11,880
guy who did all the artistry on the Planet of

788
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,920
the Apes and he's claiming that he can't be as

789
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,719
good as the one that's been seen on this sinny film,

790
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,880
which was amazing. Really, So there's been people that, like

791
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,159
you said, there's many people that trying to emulate it,

792
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,480
and they try and copy it using their footage and

793
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,440
there's very few that come even close to it. It

794
00:46:30,519 --> 00:46:32,559
was just one of those things that they managed to

795
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:34,480
be there on the day and get some really really

796
00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:36,559
strong footage of it. It's amazing. And they even made

797
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:39,199
cast of the footprints because the footprints that it created,

798
00:46:39,199 --> 00:46:41,280
they managed to get castle those later on as well.

799
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,679
You see, so there's that secondary evidence they brought forward

800
00:46:44,679 --> 00:46:45,159
as well.

801
00:46:48,679 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: Well, what are we have enough time for one more story?

802
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:57,079
What's something else from the book that you find personally

803
00:46:57,159 --> 00:46:57,920
very fascinating.

804
00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,559
Speaker 2: I've always been fascinated with the Well, there's two I

805
00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:03,599
can talk about, but you can choose. I can talk

806
00:47:03,639 --> 00:47:08,679
about the ghost of the person writing through Time. I

807
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,719
mentioned this to you before Writing through Time from the

808
00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:15,480
Middle Ages through an early computer, they were receiving messages.

809
00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:19,159
It's called the Dondalston messages. And this guy moved into

810
00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:22,599
a cottage he had borrowed an early BBC micro computer

811
00:47:22,679 --> 00:47:25,880
from nineteen eighty four I think, and he started to

812
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:31,280
receive strange messages written in what he called early modern English,

813
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,639
and they appeared to be a messages from a guy

814
00:47:33,679 --> 00:47:35,880
talking through time who used to live in the house

815
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,239
some four hundred years earlier or something, which was an

816
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,559
interesting one. So he was a teacher. This guy called

817
00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:46,719
Ken Webster and he lived in there with his girlfriend,

818
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:48,800
who was Debbie, and she was nineteen at the time,

819
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,880
and I think Ken was probably about thirty or something.

820
00:47:52,559 --> 00:47:54,920
And because he was a teacher, they were just at

821
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:59,159
that time bringing out the early BBC micro computer, which

822
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,000
had no Internet connection. The Internet was about twelve years

823
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,280
away from being public as it were. It had no modem,

824
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:10,039
of course, it was literally a word processor. And Kenn

825
00:48:10,079 --> 00:48:12,480
had borrowed this computer from the school to practice on

826
00:48:12,519 --> 00:48:14,440
it so that he could then teach those skills to

827
00:48:14,519 --> 00:48:17,199
his students. And there was also a third person that

828
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:19,880
lived in this house for a short while who was

829
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:22,119
writing comedy scripts, and he said, well, why don't you

830
00:48:22,199 --> 00:48:24,440
practice on this computer, and he showed her how to

831
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:25,920
do it, and you have to save it to this

832
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,760
floppy disk, you know, and so that's what she did.

833
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:31,559
But sometimes they go off to the pub and they'd

834
00:48:31,559 --> 00:48:34,920
come back and they'd find messages on there, and it'd

835
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:38,039
be written in old English, so it's hard to even

836
00:48:38,079 --> 00:48:41,280
to understand. We're in the book that I've read called

837
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:44,639
The Vertical Plane. They print some of the messages as

838
00:48:44,679 --> 00:48:47,760
they were, and then they've got a sort of translation

839
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:52,679
of how it's sounded. Today's English. So it says, for instance,

840
00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,159
does the have a horse and he has to write

841
00:48:57,199 --> 00:48:59,920
back says, no, we have horses, but we don't use

842
00:49:00,119 --> 00:49:03,000
them like you do. We have cars. And he has

843
00:49:03,039 --> 00:49:05,079
to try and describe what a car is to this guy.

844
00:49:05,639 --> 00:49:08,519
And at first he thought someone was playing a prank

845
00:49:08,599 --> 00:49:10,639
on him. He kept thinking, what is it my girlfriend?

846
00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:12,960
And they'd leave the computer on, they go to the pub,

847
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:15,599
they come back, they find a message on there, and

848
00:49:15,639 --> 00:49:18,719
he would talk about his time in Oxford and things

849
00:49:18,760 --> 00:49:22,840
like that, and he called himself Lucas, this mysterious writer

850
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,599
who's coming through their computer. But the weird thing was,

851
00:49:25,639 --> 00:49:27,760
he said he could also see them, and he said,

852
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:31,079
what are you doing in my house? So it appeared

853
00:49:31,079 --> 00:49:34,239
to be a case of a poltergeist type of activity,

854
00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:36,840
because they'd find things like all the chairs stacked up

855
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,320
in the corner of the kitchen, or they'd got a

856
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,199
cat and all the tins of cat food were piled

857
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:44,519
one on top of each other, very neatly on the

858
00:49:44,599 --> 00:49:48,800
kitchen table. But he would talk about things they didn't

859
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,400
know about the house. For instance, he had mentioned red

860
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:56,119
flagstone flooring because Ken was trying to renovate the cottage.

861
00:49:56,159 --> 00:49:59,400
It was only some time later that he found traces

862
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:03,679
this red red flagstone flooring underneath the floorboards and things.

863
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,719
But he was observing them from his time. He could

864
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:10,159
see them like ghosts in his house, and he was

865
00:50:10,159 --> 00:50:12,920
frightening them, thinking they were demons or devils or something

866
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:16,559
like that. But eventually he began to trust them. So

867
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:19,599
they said, well, how can you write to us? What

868
00:50:19,639 --> 00:50:22,000
are you using to talk to us from your time?

869
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,800
And he said that there was this person that came

870
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,840
down his chimney in a blaze of green light, who

871
00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,800
he termed as a friend, and he gave.

872
00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 1: Me the.

873
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,280
Speaker 2: Leams boist, which is a modern English word that he

874
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:40,280
gave early modern English word the leams boised. Now the

875
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,559
leam's voice. Someone translated it and they said boised is

876
00:50:43,679 --> 00:50:47,400
box and leams is colorful lights. So basically he was

877
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,320
talking about a box of colorful lights that he was

878
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:55,239
using to speak through to send messages to the future

879
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:59,239
of nineteen eighty four. Fascinating story. Fascinating story.

880
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: I mean that that gets my brain twirling in all

881
00:51:04,519 --> 00:51:09,920
sorts of different directions. Being of light or light comes

882
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:14,159
down the chimney and being gives them basically a computer. Yeah,

883
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:18,719
the tripe things, and it bridges through time. Now, time

884
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,960
itself is a very quote doctor who whibbly wobbly timey

885
00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:28,400
whymy type of thing? And there is the idea that

886
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,599
all time is happening at once. So instead of linearly

887
00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:37,079
looking all the way back hundreds of years for this

888
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:42,159
communication take place, it's possibly it's happening right now, right

889
00:51:42,239 --> 00:51:47,840
in real time. And that device was able to bridge

890
00:51:48,639 --> 00:51:52,719
the gap between those two timelines that we are only

891
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:55,719
able to see and experience one at a time.

892
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,559
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so the the the interesting thing is that

893
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,760
he didn't have a keyboard on it from how we

894
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,199
would understand a keyboard to type things. They said, but

895
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:08,519
how do you write the words? And he said, well,

896
00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:11,760
I discovered the words would appear in front of me,

897
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,199
like in the air. And he had a housemaid that

898
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:17,400
used to do his errands for him. She was like fourteen,

899
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,000
and so she used to clean and cook and stuff

900
00:52:20,039 --> 00:52:21,679
like that, and she would sing, and she would sing

901
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,199
little songs apparently, and he would see these words appear

902
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,119
in the air above this leam's voiced. So he took

903
00:52:29,159 --> 00:52:31,519
that as his way that he could maybe send messages.

904
00:52:31,559 --> 00:52:33,679
So he would speak and he would see them. But

905
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:36,800
he said it was interesting that other people couldn't see

906
00:52:36,800 --> 00:52:40,760
this box. It's only he could see it. So it's

907
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:42,760
almost like he had to be the medium to make

908
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:46,519
this thing work, or it gets a bit complicated because

909
00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:48,880
other people start to use it, so I'm not quite

910
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,239
sure how they can see it too. But he had

911
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,320
to be near it or something to make it work.

912
00:52:54,599 --> 00:53:00,679
But eventually he had to move away, and I think

913
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:02,679
I'm not quite sure what happened to the Lean's books.

914
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,440
I can't remember whether someone took it or whatever. But

915
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:10,400
he wrote a book on his experiences in thirteen eighty

916
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,199
or whatever the year was that he wrote this book,

917
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,480
and he said it would be found somewhere at some point.

918
00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:18,199
Now they haven't found this book today. But there was

919
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:22,480
an angle on this story as well as ken Webster

920
00:53:22,599 --> 00:53:27,000
communicating with this being called Lucas, whose real name was Thomas.

921
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:30,639
He used Lucas an alias because he was worried about

922
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:33,360
witchcraft accusations, getting into trouble that type of thing, a

923
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,239
bit like our caller about the bigfoot type of thing.

924
00:53:38,639 --> 00:53:41,360
He would use an alias. But he said there was

925
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:45,519
another person in on this conversation who was from the

926
00:53:45,639 --> 00:53:48,519
year twenty one oh nine, and so when he was

927
00:53:48,559 --> 00:53:52,039
originally talking to Ken Webster, who was in nineteen eighty four,

928
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:55,639
he said, oh, I am sorry. I apologize. I thought

929
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:59,480
you was the person from twenty one oh nine, and

930
00:53:59,519 --> 00:54:00,960
he said who is this And he said, well, that's

931
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,800
another person that talks to me from the year twenty

932
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:07,840
one oh nine. So Ken Webster scratched his head and thought, well,

933
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,840
this is getting really peculiar. So eventually decided that he'll

934
00:54:11,840 --> 00:54:14,000
try and type a message this twenty one oh nine.

935
00:54:14,039 --> 00:54:17,400
So he wrote call in twenty one oh nine, and

936
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,079
maybe an hour later, a message pops up on the

937
00:54:20,119 --> 00:54:22,599
computer and it's from this twenty one oh nine, and

938
00:54:22,599 --> 00:54:26,960
it said it's conducting experiments with time and there's many

939
00:54:27,039 --> 00:54:29,360
of us. We can't tell you too much because it

940
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:32,159
would interfere with the experiment, but we're trying to answer

941
00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:37,760
your questions as best as we can. But it looked

942
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:41,199
like some of the messages that were coming from Lucas

943
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,000
were being hacked by this twenty nine because some of

944
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,519
the people raise concerns. They said, well, look there's a

945
00:54:47,599 --> 00:54:50,440
question mark that Lucas has written here. You didn't have

946
00:54:50,519 --> 00:54:54,599
question marks back in that time, so he can't be

947
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:57,719
using them. But what they believed is that twenty one

948
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,719
oh nine, whoever was in twenty one was adding they

949
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,360
were like correct in the typos as such, you see,

950
00:55:04,559 --> 00:55:07,000
to try and improve the English. It was a very

951
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,719
bizarre case, very bizarre, and they even had people from

952
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:15,800
the Psychic Investigations of the spr the Society's Cycle Research

953
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,480
too researchers go there and try and work out what

954
00:55:18,639 --> 00:55:21,800
was happening, and they could not fathom it at all.

955
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:23,760
They had no explanation of what was happening.

956
00:55:24,039 --> 00:55:27,559
Speaker 1: Wow, that is probably one of the most bizarre and

957
00:55:27,639 --> 00:55:29,760
unique cases they've ever heard of.

958
00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: It's worth if anyone. I mean, I can read it

959
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,000
in the book that I've got, got Modern Mysteries of

960
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,880
the Unexplained by Neil Ward, But if you want to

961
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,880
deep dive into it and look at the actual write

962
00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:43,280
in and the text and things, I would recommend buying

963
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:47,400
The Vertical Blane by Ken Webster of Amazon. Now there

964
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:49,920
are copies out there that are like two hundred pounds,

965
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,119
I would steer away from those. There's a more revised,

966
00:55:53,159 --> 00:55:55,840
updated edition and I would go for that one, which

967
00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:58,440
in UK money is about seventeen pounds. That might be

968
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:02,599
about twenty five dollars or something your money maybe, so

969
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:05,719
I would go for the more type in revised edition

970
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:07,880
of The Vertical Plane if you want to try and

971
00:56:08,079 --> 00:56:09,079
crack down on that one.

972
00:56:09,400 --> 00:56:12,599
Speaker 1: Fascinating, Okay, I'm going to look into that definitely. So

973
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,000
we were coming to the end of the show here.

974
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,039
Now where can people find your book?

975
00:56:18,039 --> 00:56:20,360
Speaker 2: So, as I mentioned, Amazon is probably one of the

976
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,199
most well known places. So it's true Tale, sorry, not

977
00:56:23,199 --> 00:56:25,119
True Tales of the Paranormal. That's our previous book. So

978
00:56:25,199 --> 00:56:28,360
this is Modern Mysteries of the Unexplained, and they can

979
00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,480
find it on Amazon. It's published by our Tourist Publishing,

980
00:56:31,880 --> 00:56:33,360
but I guess you can buy and all the other

981
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:37,400
websites like Barnes and Noble or your local bookstore anywhere

982
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:41,239
like that. But yeah, go check it out and please

983
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,079
leave a review if anyone does buy it, I'd be

984
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:44,199
glad to have a review of it.

985
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:47,800
Speaker 1: And also I want to tell everybody remind them that

986
00:56:47,920 --> 00:56:50,760
you are the co host of the Paranormal Peep Show,

987
00:56:51,519 --> 00:56:56,679
which the latest episode is coming out as we're recording

988
00:56:56,719 --> 00:57:01,400
this tomorrow, Thursday the eighteenth. Ironically, my show will be

989
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,400
coming out at the same time too, so push everybody

990
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,320
to your show. It's always a great one and everyone

991
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,559
loves it. So but again, Neil, thank you so much

992
00:57:11,599 --> 00:57:13,599
for coming on and talking with me today. This has

993
00:57:13,639 --> 00:57:14,400
been a treat.

994
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:17,639
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, and I take this opportunity to

995
00:57:17,679 --> 00:57:20,199
wish you and all your family and friends a great

996
00:57:20,280 --> 00:57:23,760
Christmas holiday and to all the listeners on the Paranormal

997
00:57:23,840 --> 00:57:27,039
UK Radio Network also enjoy yourselves and stay safe. Thanks

998
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:27,559
for listening.

999
00:57:28,079 --> 00:57:32,079
Speaker 1: Well, that was certainly an interesting interview with Neil. Neil's

1000
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:34,360
a good friend. I've known him a long time and

1001
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:40,320
his show, Paranormal Peep Show is airing the third Thursday

1002
00:57:40,599 --> 00:57:44,280
of every month here in the Paranormal UK Radio Network.

1003
00:57:45,039 --> 00:57:50,440
So until next time, just fyi, we will not be

1004
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:55,039
having a show next week because of Christmas, but I

1005
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:57,440
am going to have a show ready for New Years,

1006
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,039
and so once everybody wakes up and starts getting over

1007
00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:04,880
their hangovers, they have a new trans dimensional reality show

1008
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:09,119
to watch which is going to be a show solely

1009
00:58:09,119 --> 00:58:14,440
dedicated to ghosts and ghosts investigations. So until then, thank

1010
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:18,800
you for watching and listening here on the Paranormal UK

1011
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:22,599
Radio Network. Be good humans and we'll talk to you

1012
00:58:22,639 --> 00:58:23,400
soon bye bye