Speaker 1: MHM.
Speaker 2: Welcome Friends podcast Zaki ran about.
Speaker 3: From the producers of Superman, Alexander saul Kind presents Supergirl
Speaker 3: like Superman.
Speaker 1: He's my cousin whoa.
Speaker 3: Supergirl on a secret mission to save her world.
Speaker 2: You've had your fun Selena.
Speaker 3: The Game is Finished, starring Faye Dunaway, Peter O'Toole, and
Speaker 3: Helen Slater as Supergirl Rated PG now playing at a
Speaker 3: theater near you.
Speaker 2: Welcome to a movie film commentary track. My name is
Speaker 2: Zachison and I'm here with Brian Hall.
Speaker 1: Hey, how's it going, Zachie?
Speaker 2: Brian, I gotta say when when I when I committed
Speaker 2: us to doing this comitary track, I assumed that we're
Speaker 2: talking about Supergirl, by the way, the nineteen eighty four Supergirl.
Speaker 2: And you know there are many release lengths of this film, yes,
Speaker 2: and so you know, I assumed it would be the
Speaker 2: one I had seen when I was a little lad,
Speaker 2: which is about about a little under one hundred minutes,
Speaker 2: not realizing that in fact, the international releases is the
Speaker 2: coin of the realm these days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I look forward to talking about this because there
Speaker 1: are multiple versions of this out there, just different releases,
Speaker 1: different lengths.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Actually, as I was watching this in my mind began
Speaker 1: to wander a little bit. I went on IMDb only
Speaker 1: a little bit. Well, I don't want to lead with that,
Speaker 1: because for people who are tuning into this, who have
Speaker 1: a fondness for this, like a nostalgia for it, I
Speaker 1: can completely understand that. But I should say up top,
Speaker 1: this is the first time I ever saw this movie,
Speaker 1: which is.
Speaker 2: Now likely be the last time you ever see that.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, actually, I thought that last night
Speaker 1: today with you will probably be the last time I
Speaker 1: ever watched this movie. But I went on IMDb. So
Speaker 1: I checked my watch quite a bit, and I went
Speaker 1: on IMDb, and it lists the movie as an hour
Speaker 1: forty five Yeah, And I was like, liar that version.
Speaker 1: I did not see that version anywhere. So I'm really
Speaker 1: curious for you to talk about your memories of this
Speaker 1: movie and if you've noticed what's different in this version
Speaker 1: we're about to watch.
Speaker 2: Uh yeah, well we'll talk about it. Yeah all right. Well,
Speaker 2: I figure, hey, we have two hours and four minutes
Speaker 2: to fill, so yes, yes, let's get going. Let's let's
Speaker 2: just knock this bad boy out. So you know, the
Speaker 2: timing certainly could not be more apropos.
Speaker 3: We are.
Speaker 2: We are in the lead up to the release of
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty six model Supergirl coming out, and I figure, well,
Speaker 2: when else would we ever talk through this movie? Right, Like,
Speaker 2: this is as good a time as any. It is
Speaker 2: the only time, if any, So let's do it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I gotta say, I don't regret watching it.
Speaker 1: It's always been a curiosity for me. I remember this
Speaker 1: video like VHS box at the video store growing up, Right,
Speaker 1: So there's a super movie out there from the eighties
Speaker 1: that I've never seen. I'm curious about it, and now
Speaker 1: we get to discuss it.
Speaker 2: We do, indeed, and yes, I fully acknowledged that. Obviously
Speaker 2: people do have a lot of nostalgic affinity for this film.
Speaker 2: I have no doubt, you know. I think it's appropriate
Speaker 2: that we are talking. This is our commentary track that
Speaker 2: we were recording after having just done Masters of the Universe. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty seven film, and certainly that is the
Speaker 2: nostalgic sweet spot for me. Written by the way, by
Speaker 2: the same guy, No, no kidding, David. He wrote Masters
Speaker 2: of the Universe and this interesting, okay, just just by
Speaker 2: weird by weird happens stance, the universe is telling us
Speaker 2: something and just a reminder if you want to hear
Speaker 2: this episode ad free, which is the best way to
Speaker 2: enjoy our commentary tracks, I would recommend checking out our
Speaker 2: Patreon page, right, Brian, Yeah, if you head over to
Speaker 2: patreon dot com slash Movie Film Podcast for only five
Speaker 2: dollars a month, you'll find this commentary and every commentary
Speaker 2: we've ever done ad free without any ads or interruptions
Speaker 2: butting in, which is especially important if you're trying to
Speaker 2: watch along and you don't want to have to keep
Speaker 2: pausing the movie every time an AD pops up. So
Speaker 2: definitely the most enjoyable way to enjoy the show. So
Speaker 2: if you're ready to lock in with us and seek
Speaker 2: out the Omega head drawn alongside us, now's the time. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we are watching the International cut, which is the only
Speaker 2: cut that's available widely, So it's two hours and four minutes.
Speaker 2: That's the one we're watching and the one we're talking through.
Speaker 2: And if need be, I will be comforting Brian as
Speaker 2: he sobs through having to watch this again within the
Speaker 2: span of like twelve.
Speaker 1: Hours, and and I look forward to getting into why
Speaker 1: yeah you need to hold my hand through this there there, Well,
Speaker 1: we'll get into it.
Speaker 2: There's a lot. Yeah, all right, here we go, Brian,
Speaker 2: you're ready, I'm ready. All right, we're gonna do the
Speaker 2: usual thing. We will hit play on three one two
Speaker 2: three play and one two three play. All right, So
Speaker 2: right up top. You will note that there is no
Speaker 2: like studio logo or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Yes, which I read about later. I did not notice
Speaker 1: that on first viewing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we just get dropped right into this one million
Speaker 2: dollar title sequence.
Speaker 1: So I read that fact and I was like, no way,
Speaker 1: and so I started googling to confirm it, and yep,
Speaker 1: like you said, yeah, a million dollars. This opening sequence
Speaker 1: and the visual effects in this movie are atrocious. So
Speaker 1: you think, why would you not put that million dollars
Speaker 1: towards your movie?
Speaker 2: Well, and it's really weird because it's clearly trying to
Speaker 2: do something adjacent to you know that that that zoom
Speaker 2: thing that we see with the titles and Superman the
Speaker 2: first Superman, right, but it's it's just it's just wishy,
Speaker 2: washy and worse.
Speaker 1: You know what. I will actually say I thought they
Speaker 1: were impressive. I'll actually say that.
Speaker 2: I I I think it's I think I think the
Speaker 2: the typeface is interesting to me, but other than that,
Speaker 2: I'm like, this goes on forever.
Speaker 1: Oh well, certainly that I think. What I mean is
Speaker 1: for nineteen eighty four. They look nice, sure, but but
Speaker 1: it reminds me of the HBO logo, like the old
Speaker 1: eighties HBO thing. It doesn't right because it's this metallic lettering.
Speaker 2: No, that's all fine, but but like cut to the chase, guys,
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, argument's there, no arguments there. But I
Speaker 1: mean this colorful sort of you know, pink and red
Speaker 1: and whatever, cloudy background and these I was actually impressed
Speaker 1: that this was from such an old movie that I
Speaker 1: had seen images from before.
Speaker 2: Like in this sense that this is pre CGI exactly.
Speaker 2: So these are like real things that you had to
Speaker 2: That's what I.
Speaker 1: Mean with the HBO thing, because I think now it
Speaker 1: comes up in my algorithm all the time, the making
Speaker 1: of that HBO opening where you're like, no, they actually
Speaker 1: built those letters out of metal and filmed them and
Speaker 1: it looks incredible, And so this reminded me of that,
Speaker 1: and I assumed it was the same sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I I guess, yeah, and even like I mean the
Speaker 1: way that the light is playing off of it. I
Speaker 1: mean again, for its time, that's pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: You know what, if this was the end titles, mmm,
Speaker 2: I would have been like, cool, Yes, it's very very long. Yes,
Speaker 2: so Jeno Swark, we should say he directed Jaws two
Speaker 2: with you and I both were like, well, that that's
Speaker 2: better than it might have been. I think that's our
Speaker 2: takeaway from that movie.
Speaker 1: You know what is fascinating, because yes, I think this
Speaker 1: movie looks okay, yeah, I think it's at the script
Speaker 1: level where this thing is a complete disaster.
Speaker 2: The script is catastrophic. But but to your point about
Speaker 2: the special effect, okay, actually you know okay, So yes,
Speaker 2: is like it was like Pristjugi's syndrome. I got like
Speaker 2: fifty thoughts altered the Yeah, okay, so we're in Argo
Speaker 2: City right now. This is a chunk of Krypton that
Speaker 2: survived the explosion. Now, it would have been nice if
Speaker 2: they even a little bit explained what this is in
Speaker 2: relation to what we've already seen in those other movies.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I just recently read the graphic novels Supergirl, Woman
Speaker 1: of Tomorrow and Tom King. I think, yes, wonderful, and
Speaker 1: they do explain what happened. How you know, Supergirl survived
Speaker 1: and this this floating chunk and you know how they've
Speaker 1: like put a little protective bubble over it, like makes
Speaker 1: complete sense and is a wonderful tragedy even and in
Speaker 1: this one, I was waiting to see, oh is this
Speaker 1: the same set up? And I don't know that I
Speaker 1: understood this at all. They're in some other dimension.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I mean there's no they they don't they
Speaker 2: don't contextualize it at all, like anything. It could have
Speaker 2: been a crawl, sure, anything, right, because because the problem
Speaker 2: is that these people are the same people that Marlon
Speaker 2: Brando was chilling with a couple of years ago. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but this is like some weird hippie commune with like
Speaker 2: a it's the city is like a whole we works building.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no sense of tragedy or exactly you know,
Speaker 1: displacement or anything. Yeah, hippie commune. That's perfect. Yeah, they're
Speaker 1: all barefoot walking around in these robes and.
Speaker 2: Right and and okay, so two things I want to say.
Speaker 2: First of all, uh, Helen Slater is very good in
Speaker 2: this movie.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree. I wasn't sure at first.
Speaker 2: Like I think she is. She gives more than the
Speaker 2: movie allows her to give.
Speaker 1: I actually thought that Titanic quote where I was like,
Speaker 1: I wish they had built you a better movie absdred percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh. And I will also say Peter o'tool has
Speaker 2: like two scenes in this and he's clearly like you
Speaker 2: can smell the alcohol.
Speaker 1: Yes, I didn't want to be like disrespectful, but I
Speaker 1: was like, it almost feels like they found him like
Speaker 1: tipsy somewhere and they're like, hey, we're shooting this movie.
Speaker 1: Do you want like and they put a little cheesy
Speaker 1: wand in his hand, and like, you know what would
Speaker 1: this guy like he'd be.
Speaker 2: As little like this, you know, like but I would
Speaker 2: even still I think he shows.
Speaker 1: Up, you know what, He's playing a character.
Speaker 2: Absolutely and any so I would say he gives a
Speaker 2: comparable level of investment as Brando did in the first film,
Speaker 2: because by all accounts, Brando could not be bothered to
Speaker 2: care about the first Superman. But my man showed up.
Speaker 1: He came to play without a doubt whether or not
Speaker 1: it works for you, that's a whole other thing. Yes,
Speaker 1: Like he was making me chuckle a little bit, but
Speaker 1: I was also his commitment. I completely admire.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, because he has like two scenes in this movie, right,
Speaker 2: So it's actually it's actually very brando asque. Now, but
Speaker 2: here's the thing. Okay, so that's Mia Farrow as who
Speaker 2: just is here like this is the only part of
Speaker 2: the movie she's in. And then we see Simon Ward
Speaker 2: in like a second as Kara's dad, Sorel, who is
Speaker 2: Jorel's brother. Now, my thought is that that guy, I'm
Speaker 2: sure he's a fine actor, but I'm like, you got
Speaker 2: Peter O'Toole right here?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, why wouldn't you have him as as.
Speaker 2: Kara's dad? Right?
Speaker 1: Like? Yeah, that's interesting, it's weird.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just an odd choice, right because because
Speaker 2: I think that I don't, you know, I think the
Speaker 2: fact that that's Joryl's brother is kind of a big deal.
Speaker 2: But you wouldn't know that from what we see here,
Speaker 2: right right?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Oh no.
Speaker 2: Also, also based on this scene right here, Carl is
Speaker 2: kind of an idiot, right, Like.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, Well, this is this is where
Speaker 1: the problems for the entire movie begin and never recover, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, she's essentially responsible for dooming the last remaining
Speaker 1: survivors of Krypton.
Speaker 2: Well, and her and Drunkie McGee over there because.
Speaker 1: He was possibly took like one all important power source
Speaker 1: for this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like, we have two power sources, yeah, Cara, Yes,
Speaker 2: And then he just kind of kicks it over to
Speaker 2: her and she brings this goddamn horror show Dragonfly to life. Yeah,
Speaker 2: as it dooms them all. Yes, and we're supposed to
Speaker 2: be like, and there's our hero well and or could
Speaker 2: be could be right if her first order of business
Speaker 2: is to fix things, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 2: what have I done?
Speaker 1: I'm youthful, I made a mistake, but I've got to
Speaker 1: save my people. But from the moment she gets in
Speaker 1: that little pod, she's like, wow, space is wonderful, isn't
Speaker 1: it not like banging on the glass looking back like
Speaker 1: that is no ticking clock, no ticking clock. And the
Speaker 1: second she gets to Earth, she's like, oh, look an
Speaker 1: old girl academy. That looks like fun. And then she's
Speaker 1: like playing lacrosse like minutes later, like as if her
Speaker 1: people aren't in peril right now, that never gets brought
Speaker 1: back up.
Speaker 2: This is so weird, so so to me, this is
Speaker 2: very See there's Joel's brother, not that you would know
Speaker 2: or care. They never meant they mentioned, oh, by the way,
Speaker 2: my cousin went to Earth. Anyway, proceed with your tree
Speaker 2: or whatever. Right this, Structurally, what you do is you
Speaker 2: make Zaltar the guy who is directly responsible for what
Speaker 2: has happened, and Kara is like, I need to save
Speaker 2: my Yeah, I need to save my people, I need
Speaker 2: to save my friend. Yes, and I'm gonna do this.
Speaker 2: That's that's right. So it's a it's a weird because
Speaker 2: because either way you have to end up with Zaltar
Speaker 2: in the Phantom zone. So why why either way you're
Speaker 2: gonna get there. But like right away we're like, well,
Speaker 2: she's she's she's a dummy. Yeah yeah, And so it's
Speaker 2: it's it's very weird. And and it's weird because and
Speaker 2: admittedly I'm not I'm not an expert on on the
Speaker 2: Supergirl comic continuity of this era, but I mean it
Speaker 2: wasn't really even reflective of what was what was there
Speaker 2: in the comics, you know.
Speaker 1: That's what I was wondering, if this is how close
Speaker 1: at all this is this story has anything to do
Speaker 1: with the comics, So not not much.
Speaker 2: Not much like my understanding is that it's similar in
Speaker 2: that you have this chunk of Krypton that was flung
Speaker 2: into space when when the planet exploded. And so so
Speaker 2: Kara grows up there and and he her again. Her
Speaker 2: her father is is Zrel. And then and then the
Speaker 2: the the land that they're on itself transmutes into kryptonite.
Speaker 2: M hm, right, so right, so the people begin to die,
Speaker 2: and so they send Kara to Earth to save her life.
Speaker 2: And that's that's the com And then and then you know,
Speaker 2: Superman finds her on Earth. They in recent like in
Speaker 2: the last twenty years or so, they changed they changed
Speaker 2: it to say that Kara is actually older than kal
Speaker 2: el Okay, but because of the time dilation, he ended
Speaker 2: up arriving on Earth before her and growing to adulthood
Speaker 2: before she did. So she is currently physically younger, but
Speaker 2: she's actually older.
Speaker 1: Is that to give her some sort of mental maturity
Speaker 1: or why even go through those extra steps?
Speaker 2: I think I think partly it's it's just to just
Speaker 2: to add some some something different to her, the idea
Speaker 2: that her experience with Krypton would be very different from
Speaker 2: from Superman's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh sure, sure, sure, sure, sure sure that makes sense.
Speaker 1: By the way, I think these effects remind me very
Speaker 1: like Douglas Trumbull two thousand, which I kind of dig.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we saw something similar in both the first
Speaker 2: and second Superman films. Yeah, where it's like putting oil
Speaker 2: in water or whatever and.
Speaker 1: Totally but it kind of kind of cool, kind of works.
Speaker 1: But see she's she's all like, wow, it's so gorgeous. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like there's no which I can I can understand to
Speaker 1: a point, but we never saw her freaking out. That's
Speaker 1: right about what she's left behind.
Speaker 2: Okay, so here we go. So now I have to
Speaker 2: say it, so Fade done Away as Selena. Now I
Speaker 2: think the character is garbage. Yeah, uh okay, it makes
Speaker 2: not even a lick of sense, And I'll get into why. However,
Speaker 2: I have to give credit. I think Faith done Away
Speaker 2: she's doing something interesting.
Speaker 1: Oh she's no, absolutely like she's playing this character the
Speaker 1: way that the movie wants this character to be. But yes,
Speaker 1: you know, you can get into what's wrong with the character,
Speaker 1: and then we can also get into this plot, which
Speaker 1: is basically just her and Supergirl fighting over a boy
Speaker 1: they don't even know for two hours while her planet
Speaker 1: apparently is power down and everyone's dying.
Speaker 2: At no point do we cut back to Argo and
Speaker 2: see them gasping for air or any right, Like.
Speaker 1: I literally I wrote down in my notes. I thought
Speaker 1: it would be funny when it's like he's cute, It's like, no,
Speaker 1: I saw him first. And then we cut back to
Speaker 1: the planet and like we're dying. The children's lungs are
Speaker 1: even smaller, they're dying faster, you know, Like, just how
Speaker 1: horrifying what's happening that she has just completely forgotten about?
Speaker 1: The movie has forgotten about. I couldn't believe two thirds in,
Speaker 1: I was like, this is the plot. This is the plot.
Speaker 1: They're just fighting over a boy that they don't even know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're just a cute guy they saw. I can't believe
Speaker 1: this is the plot.
Speaker 2: It doesn't it feel it's like a middle aged man
Speaker 2: writing what he thinks teenage girls want to see.
Speaker 1: That occurred to me too, because I thought this is
Speaker 1: especially in the eighties, you know, I'll speak for myself,
Speaker 1: like I really did feel like there were boy things
Speaker 1: and there were girl things. Absolutely, that was definitely what
Speaker 1: theulture was like then. You didn't boys didn't play with
Speaker 1: girl toys or watch girl shows and vice versa. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so I can imagine as a boy this movie
Speaker 1: coming out and me thinking, oh, this, I guess this
Speaker 1: is for girls, And if I were to watch it,
Speaker 1: I'd be proven kind of well, no, I don't want
Speaker 1: to like put women down saying that this is for them,
Speaker 1: because it isn't. But it is about girls and boys
Speaker 1: and whatever, and just it would not have appealed to me.
Speaker 1: And then I was like, why would they reduce, like
Speaker 1: almost insult this character for having her be so you know,
Speaker 1: wrapped up in this silly nonsense. But then and then
Speaker 1: it occurred to me if my train of thought, wait,
Speaker 1: a man wrote this, like probably exactly like you said,
Speaker 1: A middle aged man is like, well, it's about girls
Speaker 1: and they're fighting over a boy, super.
Speaker 2: Like boys and field hockey, don't.
Speaker 1: They exactly exactly? So it begins to make a little
Speaker 1: bit more sense.
Speaker 2: So we get the little thing like, by the way,
Speaker 2: Superman is off in space, yes, over the radio, like
Speaker 2: a news report on a special piece seeking mission to
Speaker 2: a galaxy scientists maybe yes to maybe several hundred trillion
Speaker 2: light years away, which that's a convenient, but be also
Speaker 2: like what you know, what have the other films shown
Speaker 2: us that would lead us to believe that's congruous, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he was apparently in earlier drafts, right he was, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And Chris Reeve noped out. So right there, what we
Speaker 2: just saw of Kara flying out of the water, that
Speaker 2: was a cardboard standy that they just pulled on a wire,
Speaker 2: which I thought.
Speaker 1: Was I read that and I think that is fascinating
Speaker 1: and it looks great.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. So, so before we move past the
Speaker 2: thing with Selena, the villain character played by Faye Dunaway,
Speaker 2: this is the type of thing that kind of drives
Speaker 2: me nuts in terms of story construction. She's sitting there
Speaker 2: in her picnic. We know she's bad because her picnic
Speaker 2: blanket is like a stuffed tiger, right, yes, yes, And
Speaker 2: she's like, oh, if only I could rule the world
Speaker 2: up as this omega hedron just drops in her soup, right,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, wow, that's convenient, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Right? Somehow this all powerful device lands within spitting distance
Speaker 2: of the worst person on Earth? Sure, right, And I
Speaker 2: was thinking, I was like, it would have taken no
Speaker 2: effort at all to say the omega hedron pops into
Speaker 2: our plane and she senses it because she's a witch,
Speaker 2: and now she and Supergirl are both drawn to it. Yes,
Speaker 2: and you eliminate the coincidence entirely. Sure, sure, right, this
Speaker 2: is the type of man. This drives me nuts, you know.
Speaker 1: By the way, I really like this sequence.
Speaker 2: Oh it's great we're talking about the flying ballet. Yeah,
Speaker 2: because again Brian girls love ballet.
Speaker 1: But it's someone on a new planet and they're discovering
Speaker 1: they have different abilities, and it's it's kind of drawn out,
Speaker 1: but in a way that I actually think works. Like
Speaker 1: I agree, you know, her realizing she can squish a
Speaker 1: rock and she can fly. And I do love that
Speaker 1: this is all shot through, like we're like peeping Tom's
Speaker 1: almost hiding in a bush like looking through branches, which
Speaker 1: is kind of weird if you think of it that way,
Speaker 1: But obviously it's to obscure the wires.
Speaker 2: That's right. So Helen Slater, she's nineteen, she makes this movie.
Speaker 2: She brings like maturity to the like I I I
Speaker 2: feel like she's she's older, you know. Yeah, yeah, very
Speaker 2: to me, very much. Christopher Reeve esque where you have
Speaker 2: this unknown who really does make a strong mark, right,
Speaker 2: And I think the fact that she had a pretty
Speaker 2: solid career after this film speaks to that, right, because
Speaker 2: she was you know, I don't know if you've seen
Speaker 2: the Legend of Billy Jean. I think that's what she's
Speaker 2: most known for. But I mean she's a love interest
Speaker 2: in Secret of My Success.
Speaker 1: And oh wow, I have not seen that movie in
Speaker 1: a long time. But yeah, okay, interesting and I've never
Speaker 1: seen a Legend of Billy Jean. And that just came
Speaker 1: up in a group hangout recently and they.
Speaker 2: Were wow, there you go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they were talking. They really liked that movie.
Speaker 2: So the universe is telling me something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's plopping into my soup right now that I
Speaker 1: should catch up on Ellen Slater's filmography.
Speaker 2: Now I have to say someone else who showed up
Speaker 2: for this movie was Jerry Goldsmith. Yeah, because man, this
Speaker 2: score is like twenty percent more than this movie is
Speaker 2: giving at any given time. Sure, yeah, like, hey, girls
Speaker 2: love ponies, right, Brian. But you know what again, I.
Speaker 1: Will say real fast. I mean, obviously this looks a
Speaker 1: little janky to our eyes in twenty twenty six, but
Speaker 1: I love the spirit of this just her this so
Speaker 1: to be fair, like any criticism of this movie isn't
Speaker 1: anything to do with its lack of budget or you know,
Speaker 1: not so great visual effects. Like I love this. I
Speaker 1: love her learning she can fly and then you know,
Speaker 1: flying over these racing horses and the countryside, picking up
Speaker 1: a flower and letting it bloom. I think this is
Speaker 1: really lovely.
Speaker 2: I think all of that stuff works and it and
Speaker 2: it shapes the character in a way that we didn't
Speaker 2: get to see the Chris Reeve Superman do because if
Speaker 2: you remember in the first film, you know, he discovers
Speaker 2: the Fortress of Solitude and then he kind of goes
Speaker 2: off and learns what joerel and then we see him,
Speaker 2: you know, montage one, montage later he is Superman, right, Yeah, Or.
Speaker 1: I guess in a way it reminds me of the
Speaker 1: scene when Clark is running alongside the train. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: was that good that giddy sense of discovery.
Speaker 2: That's good call. Yeah, And I think that that that
Speaker 2: aspect of the characters what makes her different from Superman, Right,
Speaker 2: She's she's an immigrant in a way that that Superman
Speaker 2: is not. Right sure, and that's certainly something Tom King,
Speaker 2: you know, really plugged into in that run that you're
Speaker 2: talking about, that recent run where you're wrestling with this
Speaker 2: this cultural clash. I think this film gives it lip service,
Speaker 2: but I think fundamentally, I love Brenda Vacar has a
Speaker 2: lot of fun in this, and I'm just like, she's
Speaker 2: kind of playing like the Carrie Fisher character. Dude.
Speaker 1: I thought the exact same thing. I was thinking. If
Speaker 1: Kerrie Fisher in nineteen eighty four could see this, it'd
Speaker 1: be like, you are glimpsing into the future. This is
Speaker 1: who you become actually, And I also wrote down the
Speaker 1: pitch what if the villains were Patty and Selma Vibes.
Speaker 1: That's really later, you know, I shoot out know the
Speaker 1: character's name, but Bianca, Yeah, she's always got a cigarette
Speaker 1: and like, I don't know, girl, like, eh, it's a
Speaker 1: lot of that. She's wonderful though. By the way, she
Speaker 1: has much needed color.
Speaker 2: I think, well, it's great because she's basically the ned baby,
Speaker 2: you know, totally yeah, less stupid.
Speaker 1: But I was gonna say, yeah, yeah, yeah, more a
Speaker 1: little more Carrie Fisher, Yeah, little sardonic.
Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. Yeah, she's like a she's like a sassy
Speaker 2: nineteen fifties secretary. You know, Well, you don't see that
Speaker 2: every day, do you as she like, you know, tips
Speaker 2: her cigarette ash off in.
Speaker 1: It, totally like unaffected by everything.
Speaker 2: It's so funny.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no, good please, Well real quick, we.
Speaker 2: Were talking about the special effects and some interesting stuff
Speaker 2: here with like front projection stuff, and I say this often,
Speaker 2: I appreciate the swing sometimes more than the execution because
Speaker 2: I don't think some of this projection work is as
Speaker 2: effective as what we saw in the earlier Chris Reeve films.
Speaker 1: I agree, and I think a lot of that can
Speaker 1: have to do with taking away the idea of you know,
Speaker 1: like the grain structure of the background just not matching
Speaker 1: you know, what we're seeing with her. Forget forgetting all that.
Speaker 1: I think you have to take into account the camera
Speaker 1: movement of the background. Yeah, and the camera movement of
Speaker 1: your hero.
Speaker 2: That's great, yeah.
Speaker 1: Right, because they're not in sync with one another, so
Speaker 1: it creates a jarring effects.
Speaker 2: That's exactly it. So they were clearly they were trying
Speaker 2: a new process. It wasn't the same flying effect technology
Speaker 2: that they used for the earlier films, and I don't
Speaker 2: think it worked as well as it might have. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I gotta say I didn't love this scene.
Speaker 2: I was just I was what I had written down
Speaker 2: was this scene. What the hell?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, look, there's part of me that understands this.
Speaker 1: You know, you got these two gross truck driver guys
Speaker 1: coming up and basically sexually harassing her, and I get it,
Speaker 1: and I can even understand a version of this scene
Speaker 1: in a Supergirl movie. But it's just kind of not
Speaker 1: what I want. It's very icky, it's very ikey, and
Speaker 1: they're very they're not really being cartoonish as cartoonish as
Speaker 1: some of the other kids. They're really grotesque and upsetting,
Speaker 1: and like it's it's like the real world seeping into
Speaker 1: a fantasy film in a way that's really upsetting.
Speaker 2: So the guy in the denim jacket, that's Matt Frewer, Yes,
Speaker 2: Max Headroom, Max Headroom himself, and.
Speaker 1: The dad from the neighbor, Dad from Honeys Shrunk.
Speaker 2: The Kids, Honey Sunk Kids. That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so we'll see more of him, by the way.
Speaker 1: He's good, he's yeah character.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well he was in gosh, what's the last thing I
Speaker 2: saw him? And he was in Zack Snyder's Watchman. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's molloy. Okay, he's been in a few things here
Speaker 2: and there. I met him at a con a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago, and it was it was cool just
Speaker 2: to talk to him. He's just a cool guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So so this right here, obviously there they're being
Speaker 2: as you said, it's not cartoonish. Yeah, it's it's gross
Speaker 2: and and I think Helen Slater plays the vulnerability, like
Speaker 2: the initial what the hell coupled with her resistance very well.
Speaker 2: But this right here where she's like, why are you
Speaker 2: doing this? And he's like, it's just the way we are.
Speaker 1: Yeah the hell, I know it's so dark now that
Speaker 1: bit right there where she kicks him.
Speaker 2: Legs, his ball should have just like exploded.
Speaker 1: Dude, I had I know, I saw this in something recently,
Speaker 1: but I did have the thought like it'd be kind
Speaker 1: of funny as she was discovering her laser vision if
Speaker 1: she just like blew one of their faces through the
Speaker 1: back of their hea heads. And then one of the
Speaker 1: friends is like, whoa, you know, now here's the thing
Speaker 1: about this, Okay, yeah right there his he right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: If she's got a super kick, yeah, his balls would
Speaker 1: have come out like.
Speaker 2: Shut through the top of his head. But here's the thing.
Speaker 2: They're like, so you lack Superman. Huh. They live in
Speaker 2: a world with Superman. Superman is a fact of existence.
Speaker 1: Mmmm.
Speaker 2: And so the first instant when she lifts this dude
Speaker 2: up by his chin, it doesn't occur to them like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe you're a super person and we should stop this.
Speaker 2: But no, dude pulls his knife out and then she
Speaker 2: does like her heat vision on it. Yeah, and he's
Speaker 2: still coming at her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, that's the way they are, Zachi say, it's
Speaker 1: the way we are.
Speaker 2: So this scene here will not surprise you. I don't
Speaker 2: think to know that it was cut out of the
Speaker 2: American theatrical release.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay, okay, that makes when we Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like this weird. I don't even know how to describe it,
Speaker 1: like this weird, campy bad guy convention party.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's it's this is the prelude to
Speaker 2: a key party. That was my thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally totally. But then you have like a guy
Speaker 1: coming in on a toy train carrying on a tray,
Speaker 1: and oh that makes so much. I actually wrote down
Speaker 1: because I didn't know there were different versions. First I
Speaker 1: wrote down, this movie is desperately in need of an editor.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because.
Speaker 1: If I think you could even if I was never
Speaker 1: going to enjoy the plot, it could move better and
Speaker 1: I could think of it as not a terrible campy time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but this movie is just way too long. And oh
Speaker 1: that makes so much sense that this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was the realization I had.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I The last time I saw this movie was sometime
Speaker 2: in the early part of the nineteen nineties. WGN in
Speaker 2: Chicago had some kind of a Superman marathon. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: that's that was the one and only time I've seen
Speaker 2: the movie the whole way through, And and my recollection
Speaker 2: was always like it was about an hour and a
Speaker 2: half ish, So I hit play on this. I'm like
Speaker 2: two hours in four minute? What the hell? You know?
Speaker 2: And then like you I did digging enough.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry this woman, I'm like, why are we what
Speaker 1: is happening? And why are we spending time on this? Yeah,
Speaker 1: where she's spinning around? Sorry?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yeah, it's it's a chance for Peter Cook
Speaker 2: to vamp and you know, he's kind of a fun
Speaker 2: comic actor. And and I'm assuming it was one of
Speaker 2: those things that they shot, uh, not expecting to make
Speaker 2: it into the final cut. What's what's weird is that Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's gross right there, It's it's so weird. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: Selena is using her witch powers to like make her
Speaker 2: spin around after she ate like a scorpion. I think
Speaker 2: that oftentimes you'll have a movie that's short and you'll
Speaker 2: be like, you know, this is just a wet part
Speaker 2: of a thing. But it's because they cut all this
Speaker 2: stuff out right, right, And so that's like the legend
Speaker 2: that springs up, you know. So you know, whether we're
Speaker 2: talking about Joel Schumacher's Batman Forever or even you know
Speaker 2: Superman four, which famously they cut like forty minutes out
Speaker 2: of that. Well, what we're seeing now is I suppose
Speaker 2: close to a director's cut, and it's like, no, this
Speaker 2: movie desperately needed to not have all of this stuff
Speaker 2: in it. Yeah yeah, right, But then you see the
Speaker 2: theatrical cut also is a mess, and so you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: well this is just a mess no matter what. Yeah. Interesting, right,
Speaker 2: And and the thing is that you know we were
Speaker 2: talking about the budget. I mean they had a million
Speaker 2: dollars to spend on that opening title season. It's because
Speaker 2: they had thirty five million dollars.
Speaker 1: That is, there's no excuse, there's no excuse thirty five
Speaker 1: million dollars.
Speaker 2: That's that is a substantial chunk of change in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty four. And so on the one hand, you're like, well,
Speaker 2: they weren't. They weren't low balling this thing. They weren't like, oh,
Speaker 2: it's a girl movie, let's spend less. No.
Speaker 1: No, they they put the money into it. By the way,
Speaker 1: I just out of curiosity. Because Back to the Future
Speaker 1: came out a year later. That budget was fourteen million.
Speaker 2: There you go. Anyway, No, And I think that's that's
Speaker 2: relevant because clearly they were trying to spend Superman esque money. Sure,
Speaker 2: and so good, right, Like that's you know, but yet
Speaker 2: you have you have a movie that manages to neatly
Speaker 2: evade all of the stuff that people tended to enjoy
Speaker 2: about those Superman movies. So here to your point, she
Speaker 2: is on the clock, Carra, but she's like, let me
Speaker 2: just blame in with these school girls and just like
Speaker 2: see how how things are here.
Speaker 1: I just wish, you know, that moment when she's looking
Speaker 1: at the lake earlier, that sort of golden shot she
Speaker 1: puts her hands on her hips. I almost wish they
Speaker 1: had even eighty yards something like I will get back
Speaker 1: to you, I promise or something, you know. So we
Speaker 1: know that that is her goal and first act. So
Speaker 1: but there's like a lack a daisical feel to all,
Speaker 1: even just this shot of her slowly going upstairs, like
Speaker 1: just it almost feels like, Okay, I got a blend
Speaker 1: in because I've got to exist here somehow before I
Speaker 1: figure out how I can go back. There's no urgency,
Speaker 1: you know, I I think.
Speaker 2: So as originally written, a Superman meets her when she
Speaker 2: arrives on Earth. By the way, is we talked right
Speaker 2: past this. But when she arrives on Earth, she emerges
Speaker 2: from that cocoon wearing a Superman costume.
Speaker 1: Actually, I yeah, I have and down and I was
Speaker 1: like whatever, I just yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's you know, my daughter who's nine, she's like, wait,
Speaker 2: how does she have a costume?
Speaker 1: Right? So, well it happens she's in the pod wearing
Speaker 1: her robes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then we cut back to her and she's
Speaker 2: got a Superman cost Immediately, yes, all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: she and I don't even think she reacts to it. Right.
Speaker 2: So now now this right here, this like usual suspects
Speaker 2: thing where she like pulls the name. Yes, I I
Speaker 2: My only thought is, first of all, she should have
Speaker 2: been like, my name is Robert Lee, you know, because
Speaker 2: I'm like Linda, Like where did she get Linda from?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: That's true, Yeah, But the.
Speaker 2: Other thing she's she's either like completely unfamiliar with our
Speaker 2: ways and customs or she knows enough to like type
Speaker 2: up a recommendation letter and slip it into his his
Speaker 2: file under the proper like alphabetically organized.
Speaker 1: That's what I loved is when he reads it out loud,
Speaker 1: thinking about her typing that out like about herself.
Speaker 2: Right, So so as written, uh, Superman is there, and
Speaker 2: I don't I've seen like the page of when Superman
Speaker 2: meets her, so I don't know how he would have
Speaker 2: found out she was coming or whatever. But but I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, you have Superman basically saying you know, you
Speaker 2: have to be careful how you use your powers, and
Speaker 2: he says something to the effect of like don't fall
Speaker 2: in love because you know it's not going to be
Speaker 2: fair to you or the other person, and and the
Speaker 2: the writing it was very like boilerplate. But I've I
Speaker 2: was like, well, Chris Reeve could have made this into
Speaker 2: something interesting. Chris Reeve was coming off of Superman three,
Speaker 2: and I think he wanted nothing more to do with
Speaker 2: Superman at that point. That's that's so sad. It really is,
Speaker 2: because because I think I think he would have elevated
Speaker 2: this movie. But I also think if he shows up
Speaker 2: at the beginning when she's arrives and then he's like
Speaker 2: got to go and then comes back at the end,
Speaker 2: I think people might have been like, well, we're Superman,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh totally. Wait. By the way, did you see
Speaker 1: that A and W soda machine that Yeah, one of
Speaker 1: the truck drivers was wearing an A and W T shirt.
Speaker 2: There there you go. There, there, there's the kind of
Speaker 2: product placement ANW I'm sure I was hoping for.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, let's put it on the gross
Speaker 1: guy who feels up Kara. Yes, she's super gross.
Speaker 2: And so so my point is, I think by not
Speaker 2: having Superman be like, listen while you're here, you got
Speaker 2: to blend in or something like, just give her that
Speaker 2: little nudge her and the audience the nudge in that
Speaker 2: direction to make this make sense. Yeah, but otherwise it's like, Wow,
Speaker 2: she's Clark Kent's cousin, and look, it's Lois Lane's sister
Speaker 2: who's dating Jimmy Olsen. I'm like, what are there like
Speaker 2: eight people in this universe? I know, I know, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's got she's doing the alternate ego thing. She
Speaker 1: looks up wide eyed and sweet and yeah she does
Speaker 1: do that really well, she does. I did write down
Speaker 1: though she does a unlike some of the other actors,
Speaker 1: she is doing kind of an old school acting style
Speaker 1: interest a little bit, even as Supergirl, where it's like
Speaker 1: a well that be swell real swell, you know, that
Speaker 1: kind of older school, sort of fifties kind of thing.
Speaker 1: I thought that was interesting. I don't know if that
Speaker 1: dress that was to convey innocence or something. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: the director thought.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but.
Speaker 1: She makes it endearing. I'll say yes later. So, wait,
Speaker 1: is this a college or a high school, like a
Speaker 1: boarding school.
Speaker 2: Kind of stuff. It's a high school, okay, which that okay,
Speaker 2: So there's a whole separate conversation we're about to have
Speaker 2: about the ground keeper. Yeah, exactly, like which the movie
Speaker 2: doesn't want to address at all. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I did look it up out of curiosity. He was
Speaker 1: twenty seven Heartbox. Yeah, okay, which, by the way, I
Speaker 1: didn't even realize it was him until he I think
Speaker 1: when he opened his mouth and of course you see
Speaker 1: that and he's like Selena Booby yea, but yeah, because
Speaker 1: I mean he does look kind of like generic eighties
Speaker 1: hunk guy. Yeah, and then when he opens his mouth
Speaker 1: and he's got the smile, I was.
Speaker 2: Like, wait a minute, the smile. Yeah, I know, that
Speaker 2: shit eating grin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's kind of interesting.
Speaker 2: See.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he plays such a wormy guy die Hard. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and here he's like the stud.
Speaker 2: It is just four years later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he is studeley in this though. Got to give
Speaker 1: him that.
Speaker 2: It's what I read is that Elias Hall kind of
Speaker 2: wanted Peter Gallagher for that part. Interesting and and I
Speaker 2: can certainly see that. I think I don't think any
Speaker 2: any actor could have made that role really work. Real quick,
Speaker 2: I want to mention here. So so this poster is
Speaker 2: obviously all we we get of Chris Reeve explicitly in
Speaker 2: this film. I love how Jerry Goldsmith brings in the
Speaker 2: John Williams Superman music. And you know, famously, initially Richard
Speaker 2: Donner wanted Jerry Goldsmith to do the music for the
Speaker 2: for the first film. Oh interesting, right, because he had
Speaker 2: worked with him on the Omen and what happened is
Speaker 2: that just the movie, just the schedule kept getting pushed
Speaker 2: and pushed. So Goldsmith was available, then he wasn't available,
Speaker 2: so they had to settle for John Williams.
Speaker 1: Post Star Wars. Yeah you didn't they know?
Speaker 2: And Jaws. Yeah, no, I mean it was it was
Speaker 2: one of those things where it was like, well, we
Speaker 2: lost this guy, but we got this guy too, so
Speaker 2: it worked out well either way. Sure. Sure, but Goldsmith's
Speaker 2: Supergirl theme, I think you sort of get maybe a
Speaker 2: window into what his Superman music might have been. Like,
Speaker 2: you know, I think, as I said earlier, he gives
Speaker 2: more than the movie deserves, just in terms of the
Speaker 2: energy of his of his score. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 2: we're talking about coincidence real quick, but I know, to
Speaker 2: mention Peter Cook, Nigel also so happens to be the
Speaker 2: math teacher at this school, so he is a Warlock
Speaker 2: slash math teacher.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. Yeah, you think you'd be working
Speaker 1: in science or something and he'd be yeah, off crazy
Speaker 1: chemical reactions or that's really funny.
Speaker 2: Now, this, by the way, part of the reason we
Speaker 2: have Beyonca like shuttling Selena around is that, uh, fade
Speaker 2: done Away would just kind of show up whenever, and
Speaker 2: so out of frustration, they basically just shot them separately,
Speaker 2: so that like there were times when she's just fade
Speaker 2: done Away hasn't shown up. Okay, well let's just get
Speaker 2: get Beyonca's coverage.
Speaker 1: Well that's good directing. I'll say that. By the way,
Speaker 1: this bothered me last night, but I didn't rewind it.
Speaker 1: So when Backner is sawing it that tree, he's sawing
Speaker 1: between like a y intersection in the tree, but then
Speaker 1: he pulls a branch off that's behind the tree, I
Speaker 1: was like, what why is he sawing that tree in half?
Speaker 1: And then anyway, never mind, it doesn't matter, It doesn't matter.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing. So Selena, she sees Ethan Hart Backner,
Speaker 2: you know, the grounds keeper, and she's like, I have
Speaker 2: to create a spell to make him fall in love
Speaker 2: with me. And I'm like, well, I mean your fate
Speaker 2: done away, You're you're like a sexy older lady, right
Speaker 2: like right, like like just seduce him. Try that first,
Speaker 2: and maybe she's you know, offended. Before we jump to
Speaker 2: Eye of Newt and all that shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, right, which, by the way, I
Speaker 1: always find that stuff kind of annoying in superhero movies,
Speaker 1: where it's just like, yeah, she's like a witch, like
Speaker 1: a witch that's so like generic, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: and like earth Bound sort of like yeah, I know
Speaker 1: what a witch is that they're in fairy tales and
Speaker 1: things like. You couldn't come up with something more specific
Speaker 1: to this that feels otherworldly and sci fi and fun,
Speaker 1: Like it just feels so right off the bat when
Speaker 1: I saw she was a witch, I was like, oh really,
Speaker 1: Like well, it.
Speaker 2: Really does to me. Feel like the people make in
Speaker 2: the movie were like, oh, what's something girly?
Speaker 1: Sure? Oh interesting, okay, you know interesting? Yeah, you're probably right, yeah, because.
Speaker 2: The opportunity, honestly, is to make this Omegahedron something that
Speaker 2: you know, the evil Kryptonians are after, or evil space
Speaker 2: aliens or something, and so once it's free and clear
Speaker 2: from Argo, it's being tracked to Earth by somebody else
Speaker 2: mm hmm. Or again, if you want to do this
Speaker 2: this this character, then have it be something that they
Speaker 2: become aware of and everybody's going after it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, excuse me, like where she Yeah, yeah, make her
Speaker 1: like an ordinary person who has you know, bad instincts
Speaker 1: exactly and suddenly comes into this other worldly power that
Speaker 1: feels less silly to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that's that's the problem. Is there's this
Speaker 2: this happenstance of oh it happened to land, you know,
Speaker 2: just a few feet from from the most evil person
Speaker 2: on Earth, and all these people just happen to all
Speaker 2: be you know, in this this suburb of Chicago, this.
Speaker 1: Warlock math teacher.
Speaker 2: Right. Yeah. But of these two bullies here there, I
Speaker 2: call them Bulk and Skull from Power Rangers.
Speaker 1: And all those two. Yes, yes, they're.
Speaker 2: Just going around being horrible for like no reason. Yeah.
Speaker 2: At one point, like later, when they're they're messing with
Speaker 2: the the shower, they're like I want to burn the
Speaker 2: flesh off their bones or some freaking psych I know.
Speaker 2: I was like, that's strange, and it's a weird because
Speaker 2: we we didn't get something earlier. Like Lucy Lane is
Speaker 2: defending somebody that they're picking on her like some reason
Speaker 2: that they would have it out for her.
Speaker 1: On Yep, yep. It's just yeah, no motivations. They just
Speaker 1: know there needs to be a bully so she can
Speaker 1: have this moment.
Speaker 2: Like you have the scene where they're picking on Kara
Speaker 2: for some reason and Lucy is like, hey, back off,
Speaker 2: that's your setup. And then you get to the you
Speaker 2: know whatever, like oh, I get her with the with
Speaker 2: the ball, the the hockey ball, which like if it shattered,
Speaker 2: like if it turned to dust on Carra's back, like
Speaker 2: how did you hit that?
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but you know what's bothering me
Speaker 1: about that? I wrote it down. I was like, why
Speaker 1: are you playing lacrosse? Your world is dying because everybody.
Speaker 2: Needs a break occasionally, okay.
Speaker 1: But I was like, you could fix that, where she's like, okay,
Speaker 1: I've got to like get all right, I've blended in.
Speaker 1: I've got a cover story. I've got to get down.
Speaker 1: I need to leave this campus and go try to
Speaker 1: find that power ball thing, right, And someone's like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: come on, like we're late. She's like for what the
Speaker 1: game and no, no, no, you don't have time. And then
Speaker 1: you push her into the game so you get some
Speaker 1: sense of urgency and then you can still have the
Speaker 1: fun of her playing the game and the ball blowing
Speaker 1: up on her back and all.
Speaker 2: You know, okay, so now do that with her absent
Speaker 2: mandedly putting on a bra over her clothes.
Speaker 1: George Lucas was right, there are no bras in space.
Speaker 1: I could just picture him at a screening room watching this,
Speaker 1: like see it to hold you.
Speaker 2: It's really funny. So Jenno Swark, as we said, who
Speaker 2: directed this film. He he had previously had had success
Speaker 2: with Jaws two, and he before this, he did Somewhere
Speaker 2: in Time, which starred h Christopher Reeve and Jane Seymour. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I think Christopher Reeve recommended him to the Saul Kinds. Okay, uh,
Speaker 2: stuffing her p yeah, which again, you know, I'm glad
Speaker 2: Kara doesn't have anything pressing in her life to worry about. See,
Speaker 2: this whole human identity sequence only works if she has
Speaker 2: Superman being like you need to blend in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because otherwise, yeah, why would she do that at all?
Speaker 1: She would just if she's as naive as she comes
Speaker 1: across initially, she would just go straight to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and and this is the thing, right, Like
Speaker 2: because the movie starts with her. That's the other thing, right,
Speaker 2: Like she knows that Superman is on Earth because she
Speaker 2: talks to his altar. She's like, oh, yeah, the Earth
Speaker 2: where my cousin is right, and so I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: what how much knowledge does she have, like because she
Speaker 2: knows he's Clark Kent and all that. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: is he sending is he like mister Belvidere, like writing
Speaker 2: letters to Argo? You know what I mean? The Ewans family.
Speaker 2: You know that's Clark pan over woman in a bikini.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like every episode of Mister Belvidere. I
Speaker 2: forgot of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I on the other hand, I'm doing other things. You know,
Speaker 2: he like lights a cigar and then that's my broad
Speaker 2: recollection of every Mister Belvidere episode.
Speaker 1: By the way, I thought about that baseball stadium, I
Speaker 1: was like, well, that's not rigly because they didn't have
Speaker 1: lights till eighty eight. We look at that could be kamisky.
Speaker 1: But oh and then, by the way, I was curious
Speaker 1: what was playing on that drive in screen, and it's
Speaker 1: Psycho two. Psycho Too, just a relatively recent film, and
Speaker 1: I wonder if that was just something, you know, the
Speaker 1: b Roll helicopter picked up, like just to drive through
Speaker 1: playing Psycho Too because it was nineteen eighty three or whatever.
Speaker 1: It is cool to see the Chicago Skyline circa nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty two three. Very cool. Yeah, and so I remember
Speaker 1: this VHX VHS box from when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: and I remember her flying past the Statue of Liberty.
Speaker 1: So when I saw her flying over Chicago in this movie,
Speaker 1: I thought, huh. So, I don't know if they just thought,
Speaker 1: you know, it's more maybe creates more of a link
Speaker 1: to Superman to see her in Metropolis slash New York.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I know the poster has her in
Speaker 2: front of the New York Skyline. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so just just to put a pin on
Speaker 2: my thought. Yeah, so I'm just like, is Clark just
Speaker 2: sending you know, or like, what was that? I remember
Speaker 2: on Fragle Rock uncle travelin Matt he would like send
Speaker 2: letters back. You know what. I never have seen Frago Rock. Well,
Speaker 2: there you go, Fragle Rock. You know you have the
Speaker 2: main character Gobo and his uncle traveling Matt would be
Speaker 2: out in the world and he would send letters back
Speaker 2: about all the things he had seen. So I'm like,
Speaker 2: is he doing that? Is he sending letters to Argo City? Right?
Speaker 2: Because because this is I'm like, if Clark knows that
Speaker 2: there are other Kryptonians out there, He's not just gonna
Speaker 2: be like, all right, well y'all keep me posted, let
Speaker 2: me know write.
Speaker 1: Like that's true. It's his people, Yeah, so his home.
Speaker 2: And maybe I'm overthinking, but I can't help it. I'm like,
Speaker 2: how much knowledge do the argo people have about Superman?
Speaker 1: I don't think that's overthinking. I would just call that
Speaker 1: thinking frankly. But yeah, then when he gets in this
Speaker 1: whole thing put a spider in a chestnuts shell, I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, what are we doing?
Speaker 2: See, like, why not just have the omegahedron? Do that.
Speaker 1: Exactly?
Speaker 2: Exactly? Like you're creating this extra.
Speaker 1: Step one hundred percent. And maybe she has these great
Speaker 1: and ambitions and thinks of herself higher than she actually is,
Speaker 1: her status or something, and now that corrupt person mentally
Speaker 1: has the power she did not have before to actually
Speaker 1: carry those things out exactly. That's way more interesting.
Speaker 2: I was thinking about heart Backner, how like, like again,
Speaker 2: four years later, he's Ellis yeah and die Hard right
Speaker 2: and and heart Backner. I think he's had a decent career.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, a good character actor thing, but
Speaker 2: like he had the fortune slash misfortune of playing such
Speaker 2: an indelible character in this movie that just lives on
Speaker 2: and on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that like he is trapped as Harry Ellis. Yeah right, yeah, sure.
Speaker 2: Because you look at him in this and he's like
Speaker 2: a traditionally handsome you know, you could see him as
Speaker 2: like a nineteen eighties or nineties leading man and like
Speaker 2: a television show or something.
Speaker 1: Totally Yeah, you know, it's funny. I actually got to
Speaker 1: meet him because he had a small part in the
Speaker 1: Christopher Guest movie For Your consideration. Oh nice, And so
Speaker 1: I don't remember why I saw him shoot, but then
Speaker 1: I had to go to he was directing something. Then
Speaker 1: I had to go to the editing offices where he was,
Speaker 1: you know, with his editor, and he could not have
Speaker 1: been nicer. And he had no beard, and I was like, whoa.
Speaker 1: It was just weird for me because I didn't know
Speaker 1: him from a lot of other things. It was so
Speaker 1: seeing him here, Yeah, I was like, you know, you
Speaker 1: take the beard away, and I don't know, obviously it's
Speaker 1: the character he's playing too and diehardy, I mean over here.
Speaker 2: He's doing like a Tony danzas slash Nick from Family
Speaker 2: Ties thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a himbo sort of.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the first scene where I realized who
Speaker 1: he was, because I mean, it's a mistake.
Speaker 2: Once he smiles, you're like, oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but he's just yeah, I wasn't used to
Speaker 1: him looking any other way. When I saw him without
Speaker 1: the beard and everything, Like you said, he got really
Speaker 1: locked into that character, I guess, unfortunately or.
Speaker 2: Fortunately either way. Apropos of nothing. But speaking of Nick
Speaker 2: from Family Ties, Yeah, I forget that guy's name. I
Speaker 2: forget his name, but anyway, he played the Superman villain
Speaker 2: Metallo on Lewis and Clark. Oh, good friend, because I
Speaker 2: like my friend Michael Bailey, I can find a way
Speaker 2: to connect most things back to Superman in some way shape.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So wait, did she summon him here?
Speaker 2: Yes? Now, because Bianca says I saw his number on
Speaker 2: his truck.
Speaker 1: Oh that's right, yeah, yeah, yeah, and she came out
Speaker 1: on that little toy choo choo train.
Speaker 2: See this is the part I don't understand. Right, you
Speaker 2: have Fade done Away, and I think most men at
Speaker 2: this time, if Fade Dunaway starts seducing them, they would
Speaker 2: probably be at least amenable, right right, right, right right.
Speaker 2: So I'm kind of like, what you do is you
Speaker 2: bake in something like you know, she only looks pretty,
Speaker 2: you know, when she's in her lair. If she leaves,
Speaker 2: she looks like a horrible witch or something. You know,
Speaker 2: some limitation that says, well, I can only use magic
Speaker 2: to seduce.
Speaker 1: This man or like not exactly this, but Uma Thurman
Speaker 1: and Batman for her, Batman and Robin where she's just
Speaker 1: kind of frumpy and like, doesn't she has these ambitions,
Speaker 1: but she doesn't take care of herself outwards. Yes, the
Speaker 1: projectile out of confidence. Then once she comes into this
Speaker 1: new ability, whatever confidence she had inside now shows on
Speaker 1: inside you there.
Speaker 2: You know, as we're talking about that, I'm like, man,
Speaker 2: what a trope, right, Like we have seen so many
Speaker 2: versions of that, sure, right, like like Kristen wigg and
Speaker 2: Wonder Woman too. Oh that's right, yeah right, and even
Speaker 2: I mean like that's Jamie Fox and Spider Man.
Speaker 1: That's Jim Carrey, you know, yeah, and the previous Batman movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's right.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's still.
Speaker 2: Scott Valentine. By the way, that's the actor's name, Nick
Speaker 2: from from Family Ties.
Speaker 1: Okay, Oh strangely that rings a bell. Yeah, yeah, he's.
Speaker 2: Great, is Nick?
Speaker 1: By the way, he was.
Speaker 2: He was doing like a like a Tony Danza slash
Speaker 2: Sylvester still own.
Speaker 1: Thing, right, Yeah, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm an artist or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like Heart of Gold, you couldn't Heart of
Speaker 1: Gold exactly help but love him. But he was like
Speaker 1: a great foil for Alex.
Speaker 2: That's the funny thing is when you watch that show,
Speaker 2: when you watch it now, you're like, well, Alex is
Speaker 2: like being really cruel to this guy who he's like
Speaker 2: an artist, Like he's not even like, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: some some blue collar guy that like, uh, Alex would
Speaker 2: necessarily look down his nose on you know. It's like
Speaker 2: he's just he seems like a sensitive soul who wants
Speaker 2: to create art. Right. But the show kind of makes
Speaker 2: you like be like, I don't know by I like
Speaker 2: Alex and his and his uh you know, three piece
Speaker 2: suits or whatever. Look at that she gives Nigel Acney
Speaker 2: so strange.
Speaker 3: I know.
Speaker 2: His reaction to this is very funny because it feels
Speaker 2: like something she's done before. M you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: He's like, oh that bitch right the way he says it,
Speaker 2: it's like again with this, you know, which, by the
Speaker 2: way I read that, apparently they wanted Dudley more for
Speaker 2: that role and more suggested Cook because they used to
Speaker 2: be like a comedic duo. Yeah, and Peter Cook was
Speaker 2: in uh, What's the God damn it, What's the Devil movie?
Speaker 1: Max Devlin?
Speaker 2: No, no, no, I remember they remade it with Brandon
Speaker 2: Fraser The Dazzle. Yeah yeah, yeah, So in the remake
Speaker 2: it's Elizabeth Hurley, but in the original it was Peter
Speaker 2: Cook as the Devil.
Speaker 1: Oh quite the glow up. Yeah, it's lucky our generation.
Speaker 1: I never saw that. I wonder if I'm sure it's
Speaker 1: not great, but I wonder if it'd be like a good,
Speaker 1: dopey late nineties movie.
Speaker 2: Or something, the Brandon Fraser one. Yeah, Harold Reimis directed that.
Speaker 1: Really, I remembered existing, and that's I just.
Speaker 2: Never saw it. I'm with you. I saw the trailers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, same.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also, as long as we're talking about casting, I
Speaker 1: read that they wanted Dolly Parton really badly for Selene.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for Selena, which.
Speaker 1: I kind of see. I mean, like her fun she
Speaker 1: would bring a fun camp to.
Speaker 2: It for sure. Yeah. I think I think Dolly was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything Witchcraft related. Yeah, yeah, which kind
Speaker 2: of given her brand, that makes sense. Totally. And again
Speaker 2: like I I think, I think, I think Faye Dunaway
Speaker 2: was a solid choice in terms of what they were
Speaker 2: trying to do.
Speaker 1: Mm mmm, yeah, she's not doing anything wrong. I think
Speaker 1: everything we've said, like if we could just tweak this
Speaker 1: character a little bit, this it it comes down to
Speaker 1: the script.
Speaker 2: The character as conceived is is a problem. But you know,
Speaker 2: in terms of if you're trying to emulate the Superman template,
Speaker 2: then Faye Dunaway is at least as value added as
Speaker 2: you know Gene Hackman, right right, you know.
Speaker 1: Who were both in Bonnie and Clyde.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, This poor guy Backner just like he's like a
Speaker 1: pawn in this game. He doesn't understand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I get it. I've been there. Man.
Speaker 1: I actually felt really bad for him in this scene where
Speaker 1: everyone's just driving around him.
Speaker 2: Like hey, idiot, idiot. Nobody's like, hey, man, are you okay?
Speaker 2: Like like him to the curb, you know.
Speaker 1: I was like, doesn't that just sum up humanity? And
Speaker 1: later too, when cars with her friends and they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's probably on drugs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so funny because because they see him wandering
Speaker 2: around almost getting hit by cars and then they and
Speaker 2: then the next time we see them, they're just in
Speaker 2: here again in the Popeye is eating.
Speaker 1: I think we actually see them turn around and go
Speaker 1: back in the restaurant and he's like, they're the good guys.
Speaker 2: The good guys.
Speaker 1: So so, how old was Mark McClure in this twenty seven?
Speaker 2: Twenty seven? And he's just about to shoot back to
Speaker 2: the Future and that's crazy. He's in between Superman three
Speaker 2: and Back to the Future one, And he said himself
Speaker 2: like he I mean, basically, they're like, hey, you want
Speaker 2: to do this? He's like, okay, you know sure, And
Speaker 2: even he was like, I don't know what I'm doing here?
Speaker 1: Oh really?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because like at one point he even said to
Speaker 2: his work he's like, hey, should shouldn't I like mention Superman?
Speaker 2: And they're like, no, no, this is like super Girl's movie.
Speaker 2: This is some thing. And he's like, well, why am
Speaker 2: I here that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 1: Right? Right?
Speaker 2: So he's dating this that's me. That's what I'm not understanding.
Speaker 2: I'm like, how old is Jimmy Olsen supposed to be?
Speaker 2: Because it feels like Lucy is like sixteen by.
Speaker 1: The way, she's in her thirties.
Speaker 2: The actor, well, she she shows it well.
Speaker 1: But no, she looks great. I just I you know,
Speaker 1: me in my session with googling everyone's ages, So I
Speaker 1: just I love how it's all over the place. It
Speaker 1: is because she's yeah, she's I want to say, like
Speaker 1: early thirties, and then Kara is eighteen or something when
Speaker 1: she's shooting this, and yeah, it's yeah. But there he
Speaker 1: looks like he looks like he's twenty seven to me,
Speaker 1: like absolutely, And I'm sure he's supposed to be twenty
Speaker 1: one or something sight yeah, I I.
Speaker 2: Mean is he is he supposed to be a teenager?
Speaker 2: Here at this point, I don't even wait.
Speaker 1: By the way, I have to call this out. Sorry.
Speaker 1: I noticed there was so much tailand All product placement
Speaker 1: in this. There's a big billboard for tailand All and
Speaker 1: earlier we see the headmaster or whatever, the principal of
Speaker 1: the school, like, you know, holding a Tailan All bottle
Speaker 1: directly at camera, you know. And I was like, and
Speaker 1: then I thought, wasn't like the tailand All murders in
Speaker 1: the eighties, Like when was that? And I looked it
Speaker 1: up and it was two years before this, when in
Speaker 1: the Chicago Land area there was someone who was putting cyanide,
Speaker 1: cracking open tail and all bottles and putting cyanide inside,
Speaker 1: and people were dying taking tail and al. So I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that makes so much sense. Thailand All
Speaker 1: needed some brand rehabilitation, so apparently. But yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: maybe that's why they're so prominently featured in this movie, Like,
Speaker 1: please put Thailand All everywhere. Everyone takes Tilan All in
Speaker 1: the Superman universe.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which, by the way, if people don't know that story,
Speaker 1: that's what led to the protective packaging we have now
Speaker 1: on Thailan All with like the little cotton and the
Speaker 1: foil seal on top. It's because of the poisoning that happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Really, I remember the Russell Crowe character and the
Speaker 2: Insider talks about that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: I love the POV from the tractor as it's going
Speaker 2: after Ethan. It's it's just for some reason, it's it's
Speaker 2: very film student e to me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's one of those shots that you get and you're
Speaker 2: so excited about that's.
Speaker 1: A really great yeah, yeah example now, and it looks
Speaker 1: a little silly, you know, yeah.
Speaker 2: See, but again, it's like the way in which this
Speaker 2: is all happening is very funny to me because he
Speaker 2: should run a lot faster. I mean, I know he's
Speaker 2: like under a spell. Yeah, but also like people are
Speaker 2: just standing around. Nobody's doing anything. I know, they're just like, hey,
Speaker 2: there's a tractor that's just driving itself.
Speaker 1: Anyway, Yeah, I my brain. So I did have a
Speaker 1: thought where I was like, Okay, so the whole reason
Speaker 1: this town is getting destroyed is because this woman wants
Speaker 1: this guy, yeah that she doesn't know because he's cute,
Speaker 1: That's right. And then I also wrote down this set
Speaker 1: piece should be ten minutes instead it's thirty. And then
Speaker 1: I looked it up and it took twenty two days
Speaker 1: to shoot just the sequence, just the sequence.
Speaker 2: Good lord.
Speaker 1: I was like, wow, I don't know, although I would
Speaker 1: say this is the big set piece of the movie.
Speaker 2: Really I was just thinking. I was like, I was like,
Speaker 2: this is like the big the big action highlight quote unquote.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this whole city was built on a backlot,
Speaker 1: which I did think about, Oh wow, they're destroying some buildings.
Speaker 1: Was that a building that they the city had planned
Speaker 1: to tear down? But this is all backlot looks pretty good.
Speaker 2: It's impressive.
Speaker 1: Its looks like a real you know, small town city
Speaker 1: strip and props for that. Yeah, here we But now
Speaker 1: she's finally doing something.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I look at this and I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: it's cool to give Lucy Lane kind of the same
Speaker 2: spunk as her sister.
Speaker 1: I think that's good, totally oh good call. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Uh. Although I was like, I like Jimmy, I was like,
Speaker 2: this should have been Jimmy's moment to be somewhat heroic, sure,
Speaker 2: or at least try to be heroic, right, because all
Speaker 2: he all you see him doing is taking pictures and
Speaker 2: and I don't know. I was like, all I'm saying
Speaker 2: is if I was Mark McClure, maybe I would have
Speaker 2: pushed the harder, be like, hey, like, give me something
Speaker 2: to do some not just standing around doing this, you know.
Speaker 1: But to your point, I do like that it's Lucy
Speaker 1: who steps up and does something.
Speaker 2: Although the way she gets knocked out there is like
Speaker 2: really friggin stupid. Yeah, I'm like, wait, what happened? That's
Speaker 2: where you get your your your your you know, second
Speaker 2: unit and see a piece of debris fall on her
Speaker 2: head or something, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Yeah, Although a lot I gotta give it like,
Speaker 1: the choreography of all this is pretty impressive.
Speaker 2: I agree, And.
Speaker 1: You got the giant tire rolling down the street.
Speaker 2: Although you know what's interesting is that they they offered
Speaker 2: the directing gig to Richard Lester, who did Superman two
Speaker 2: and three. He turned it down. Uh, they offered it
Speaker 2: to Robert Why is he of You know, he did
Speaker 2: Star Trek the motion picture before that, he did like
Speaker 2: Sound of Music and The Day of the Earth. Still,
Speaker 2: I don't know why they thought he would want to
Speaker 2: do this. But you know, for all of what I've
Speaker 2: said before about about Lester and sort of his the
Speaker 2: comedic way he tended to interpret the Superman universe, I
Speaker 2: couldn't help but watch this and be literally I was like,
Speaker 2: I think Richard Lester would have done a better job
Speaker 2: with this.
Speaker 1: I read that also and thought, oh, he would have
Speaker 1: been perfect, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: The stuff that he brings to two that people don't
Speaker 1: like is what would have made this movie sing a
Speaker 1: little better. I agree, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, because like like that whole sequence at the
Speaker 2: end where the villains are like blowing their super breadth
Speaker 2: at Metropolis and everything's just gone haywire. This needed a
Speaker 2: little bit of.
Speaker 1: That yeah, you know, yeah, I love the way by
Speaker 1: the way that I thought she was going to use
Speaker 1: her laser vision to open up that water tower, and
Speaker 1: I love that she just flies through it. I thought
Speaker 1: that was cool. Yeah, I mean, I can see why
Speaker 1: this took so long to shoot. Look at all this coverage,
Speaker 1: all these But.
Speaker 2: That's what's frustrating is that this sequence really doesn't amount
Speaker 2: to much because the only goal is to have Ethan
Speaker 2: set eyes on Yahara right and fall in love with her,
Speaker 2: And so we've been on this like ten twelve minute
Speaker 2: journey just for that.
Speaker 1: That's a great point, which is a shame, because I
Speaker 1: do think this is an impressive sequence. Yeah, it's too bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't mean more necessarily or.
Speaker 1: For me, it was just striking me how ridiculous it
Speaker 1: was that this woman was destroying the city just over
Speaker 1: this guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And well, and what we see later is like,
Speaker 2: you know, you've got people like protesting her. Yes, So
Speaker 2: I'm like, so do they know about her from before?
Speaker 2: Like they're like, oh, it's that witch I lives down
Speaker 2: the road.
Speaker 1: I wondered if I had missed a few things. I
Speaker 1: actually went on the Wikipedia page afterwards and read the
Speaker 1: plot just to make sure I understood it and I
Speaker 1: didn't remember that she had turned herself into some sort
Speaker 1: of princess or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I love this here where fay Dna is like,
Speaker 2: don't look at her, don't look at her. I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the light on the eyes though. I
Speaker 1: always love that shot. Uh So wait, okay, so he
Speaker 1: it's the first person he lays eyes on, right, and
Speaker 1: so he has stumbled out of that carnival and did
Speaker 1: not make eye contact with Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the idea is that he drinks the potion
Speaker 2: and he's all and then she's once it wears off
Speaker 2: the first person that he.
Speaker 1: Sees, Okay, and that's why she's desperately trying to capture
Speaker 1: him and bring him back.
Speaker 2: So yeah, because the idea was that he would have
Speaker 2: passed out in her home, her you know who, her
Speaker 2: Halloween amusement park home that she lives in.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then he would wake up and he would
Speaker 2: see her right, and he would love her for a day.
Speaker 2: But that's the other thing.
Speaker 1: It's a day that I I was made clear to
Speaker 1: me in the Wikipedia article. I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: I don't I don't remember that.
Speaker 2: All of us for a day. Yeah, one day of
Speaker 2: like the best sex he's ever had or she's ever
Speaker 2: had or somebody, right, I guess.
Speaker 1: And she's got to find another spider and she can
Speaker 1: just do it again. I guess. It's so weird. The
Speaker 1: carnival thing. What is that Joker? What is that graphic
Speaker 1: novel where Joker lives at a carnival?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the killing Joke, Killing Joke? Yeah. Yeah. And also
Speaker 2: in the Mask of the Phantasm.
Speaker 1: Oh you know what, that's what I was actually thinking of.
Speaker 2: Which also features the voice of Hart Backner.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, look at that. Huh. It's kind of funny
Speaker 1: that car. I was like sort of down for the
Speaker 1: kiss though, like, Okay, He's like I love you, and
Speaker 1: she's like, what are you talking about? He kisses her
Speaker 1: and she's like eh.
Speaker 2: This is the other thing is that they keep calling
Speaker 2: Carr the wimp. Yeah, And I'm like, it's just the
Speaker 2: whole construct is just very odd, like like, you know,
Speaker 2: Fade Dunaway is in competition with this high school girl
Speaker 2: and it's just like that wimp. It's a strange thing
Speaker 2: to call, right.
Speaker 1: Like, I.
Speaker 2: Don't know, man, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess Fade Dunaway was a little difficult too. On
Speaker 1: well you mentioned that earlier, but they even thought about
Speaker 1: possibly replacing her at some point with until in Houston
Speaker 1: I read.
Speaker 2: Who would go on to play a witch in The Witches?
Speaker 1: Witches? Yeah, I was like, you know, I kind of
Speaker 1: see it. She played a witch in the one of
Speaker 1: the EU movies.
Speaker 2: Too, Angelica Houston.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, isn't it her? Oh? Wait? Am I confusing?
Speaker 1: You know what I'm conflating. I'm conflating the Witches and
Speaker 1: a similar black haired in Jelica Houston type. I think.
Speaker 2: Okay, God, I mean I haven't the last time I
Speaker 2: saw that UOK movies was the eighties.
Speaker 1: You know what I really am. I think I'm mixing
Speaker 1: up a shot and the poster from the Witches that
Speaker 1: is from like a low angle. Wow, okay, melding together
Speaker 1: in my brain. That's because this is a commentary. I
Speaker 1: can't delete it.
Speaker 2: That's great. You know we're human, hey, trade of thought. See,
Speaker 2: doesn't this feel like this is like a comedy witch movie?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That would actually kind of work then where she
Speaker 1: likes the love spell of it all. Yeah, and just
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know the Hubrists and whatever. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a witch comedy that's so spot on, yes, but for
Speaker 1: a super Girl movie is just like the stakes couldn't
Speaker 1: be lower.
Speaker 2: That's that's the weird thing, right. I think the mistake
Speaker 2: is in having an antagonist that's really not not connected
Speaker 2: to Supergirl or her home, right. And I think again,
Speaker 2: what you needed to do was have the Omegahdron followed
Speaker 2: to Earth by by a malevolent race or person you know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, a space pirate or something. Who's who who?
Speaker 2: Who wants it? And maybe you even say something like
Speaker 2: like when they're on Argo City, like, oh, you know
Speaker 2: this omegahedron, it's our source of power, but it's also
Speaker 2: being sought after by by X person or whatever, you know,
Speaker 2: something like that, you know what I mean. Yeah, totally
Speaker 2: kind of a kind of a brainiac type force.
Speaker 1: Yeah. By the way, I've read that that had mistress
Speaker 1: scene was not in the original version, that's right, And
Speaker 1: I was like, that's exactly it. You don't let's go. Actually,
Speaker 1: I just tapped my iPad and was like where are
Speaker 1: we at? And it's like, let's go, let's go. We
Speaker 1: don't need this. And she's going to kiss herself in
Speaker 1: a mirror. Why, I mean, I get the google eyes
Speaker 1: sort of thing, because it's probably, yeah, she's young, is
Speaker 1: maybe her first kiss. I get, I get that, but
Speaker 1: this just feels so sluggish.
Speaker 2: I think that it's very straightforward. What she needed to
Speaker 2: do before she left Argo was have her little doodad
Speaker 2: on her wrist say you know, I have thirty six hours?
Speaker 2: Yeah yet, right, And then there's your Every so often
Speaker 2: she can glance at her thing and be like, I'm
Speaker 2: running out of time, you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, so I can completely buy that she might be
Speaker 1: a little smitt and kitten here and like a little
Speaker 1: lost in That totally makes sense. But then and that's
Speaker 1: when exactly she looks down and perfect right, yes, yes.
Speaker 2: Right, And you do that without even needing to sort
Speaker 2: of cut back and forth, you know.
Speaker 3: Hm.
Speaker 1: I like all this practical stuff. By the way, we're
Speaker 1: seeing the trees ripped out of the ground and this this,
Speaker 1: I don't even know how they did this. They collapse
Speaker 1: this little hill here.
Speaker 2: That that's cool looking. Yeah, this was all shot on pinewood. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the big double seven stages, which is where they shot
Speaker 2: you know, the first three Superman films. That that type
Speaker 2: of stuff always bugs me when they do that, Like
Speaker 2: instant change. They did that in the first Superman also,
Speaker 2: where he you know, he hears Lex Luthor's sum in him, Yeah,
Speaker 2: and he sneaks away and he jumps out the window
Speaker 2: and then as he's falling, he just becomes Superman. And
Speaker 2: I'm always like, well, why don't you just show like
Speaker 2: just just even if you handwave it, just show him
Speaker 2: changing at super speed or something. You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's funny because movies used to do that
Speaker 1: more and they were like, hey, you get it. But
Speaker 1: audiences have become so much more well, I wouldn't say
Speaker 1: more sophisticated. You were probably wondering it as a kid. So
Speaker 1: but now we can our voices are heard more often,
Speaker 1: and so they do have to explain things a little
Speaker 1: bit more right, less hand.
Speaker 2: Wavy these days, and it's probably easier to depict it now.
Speaker 2: That's a good point technology. So this whole this thing
Speaker 2: about her her fighting the Shadow Demon. As I was
Speaker 2: watching it, I was like, well, this is kind of
Speaker 2: silly how we don't see it, And then we see
Speaker 2: it at the end and I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: I wish we didn't see it.
Speaker 1: It feels very ghostbuster Z. Yeah, like a puppet that's
Speaker 1: someone someone who worked on Ghostbusters. It was like a
Speaker 1: rejected demon dog design or something.
Speaker 2: Now, in the last few months, you've been singing the
Speaker 2: praise of hand drawn lightning animations. Yes, and I gotta
Speaker 2: sing the praise. I love seeing it.
Speaker 1: You know what I gotta say. There was a moment
Speaker 1: last night where I was looking down a little bit
Speaker 1: and I was kind of, you know, on Wikipedia and
Speaker 1: reading interviews and that sort of thing. And it was
Speaker 1: during this moment I was sort of looking down and
Speaker 1: then I looked up again and I saw the lightning.
Speaker 1: I loved this at this It was this shot where
Speaker 1: she holds it up, the thing and she's and I
Speaker 1: was like, whoa, whoa, whoa oah, Brian, you should be
Speaker 1: paying attention, truly, truly, because I just like the way
Speaker 1: this looks. I like the light lighting of the scene.
Speaker 1: I like the lightning of the scene. I like seeing
Speaker 1: her do Supergirl stuff. Yep, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that you know, the character, the Supergirl character
Speaker 2: in the comics up to this point. I think this
Speaker 2: was a problem that DC was dealing with. I'm talking
Speaker 2: about it in the eighties, is that you know, the
Speaker 2: character was first introduced to what nineteen fifty nine, I
Speaker 2: want to say, right, so she's about twenty five years
Speaker 2: old at this point, and I don't think she had
Speaker 2: a take. She didn't have an identity other than being
Speaker 2: the female equivalent of Superman, you know, right, and so
Speaker 2: I think that's to some extent. And this is the
Speaker 2: scene you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Right, Oh, sorry, Yeah, I thought that was earlier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they they hadn't fully defined the character,
Speaker 2: and so you know, she struggled in terms of she
Speaker 2: had her own title for a little while, and then
Speaker 2: that was canceled. And then right maybe about a year
Speaker 2: or so before this movie came out, maybe an anticipation
Speaker 2: of this movie, they started a new monthly series, but
Speaker 2: they didn't really have a take because I think that
Speaker 2: her personality was not very defined. And so to the
Speaker 2: point that we were making earlier about you know, why
Speaker 2: did they change it so that it so that she's
Speaker 2: older than Clark. I think it it allows for something
Speaker 2: more interesting, just in terms of her having a point
Speaker 2: of view that's different from Superman, totally, right. And so obviously,
Speaker 2: as we record this, neither of us have seen the
Speaker 2: new film, but I mean just from the trailers, it
Speaker 2: seems like that's what the story is resting on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean speaking to the graphic novel, which I
Speaker 1: really enjoyed. She's a really interesting character. Yeah, Like she's
Speaker 1: she had a different experience, you know, losing her world
Speaker 1: and her family and everything, and she deals with it
Speaker 1: very differently. But she also has an inherent goodness that
Speaker 1: sometimes gets lost with her you know, outward belligerence from
Speaker 1: time to time, which is right. She's a really I'm
Speaker 1: really looking forward to the movie. After reading it, I
Speaker 1: became way more excited about the movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean, by all accounts, it was that
Speaker 2: graphic novel that was the primary source of inspiration.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a I'm really hoping they stick closely to
Speaker 1: it because it's.
Speaker 2: A great story. Yeah. And you know, she has a
Speaker 2: line in the trailer where she says something to the
Speaker 2: effect in paraphrasing, she's like, my cousin sees the good
Speaker 2: and everybody I see the truth, right, and and so
Speaker 2: you know, there's this this cynicism, right, and I think
Speaker 2: that the version of the character as depicted in this
Speaker 2: film doesn't have that because that was not the character
Speaker 2: in the comics, right. I don't think they had really
Speaker 2: nailed her, you know, the essentials of her world. She
Speaker 2: did not have a supporting cast really, you know. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: And so you know, the fact is this movie comes
Speaker 2: out in nineteen eighty four, nineteen eighty six, that DC
Speaker 2: did a series called Crisis on Infender Earth's and they
Speaker 2: killed off Kara in that series.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: And and she was dead in the comics for twenty years.
Speaker 1: Oh oh wow. Wow.
Speaker 2: You know, I think and I think that just sort
Speaker 2: of speaks to the fact that DC didn't really know
Speaker 2: what to do with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like it.
Speaker 2: So you know, that's kind of where they were at
Speaker 2: when this movie came out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well, and that's maybe a part of the
Speaker 1: problem why this movie didn't connect. I'm sure there were
Speaker 1: a lot of reasons, but, like you said, just no
Speaker 1: distinctive story or even persona for this character for people
Speaker 1: to show up for or look forward to seeing on
Speaker 1: the big screen.
Speaker 2: Like I think it's very telling that, at least with
Speaker 2: the newer film, they certainly have made sure to clarify
Speaker 2: that David corn Sweat is in the movie.
Speaker 3: Mmmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, you know, But I love this Ethan
Speaker 2: now newly shaved and showered Ethan. Yeah, yeah, with like
Speaker 2: just following around like a goddamn psycho.
Speaker 1: But I love he's got the heart shaped box of
Speaker 1: can and roses. But like the way he's holding them too,
Speaker 1: you know, is if he's in a Hallmark commercial or something.
Speaker 2: It's like a high school sophomore, yeah, exactly for prom
Speaker 2: or something. You know. I remember reading the story book
Speaker 2: of this movie in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Like the hardcover storybook or that, remember the one ones
Speaker 1: that would have the little record.
Speaker 2: It was not one of those.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was like a larger size one and like the
Speaker 2: front page has a little square with all the characters
Speaker 2: and their names, okay, and it was just the storybook
Speaker 2: of the movie, you know. Yeah, And it was like
Speaker 2: this time, you know, because I was living in Saide,
Speaker 2: Arabia at the time, and it's like, well, whatever I
Speaker 2: have available, I will read, sure, you know. And I
Speaker 2: very like the beats of the story I knew from
Speaker 2: that story book, and I remember not being able to
Speaker 2: make heads or tails of it.
Speaker 1: Man, those were so cool back in the day. I
Speaker 1: remember that. Yeah, well, because I didn't see Temple of
Speaker 1: Doom till I was older, and that was one of
Speaker 1: those things where I could go to my elementary school
Speaker 1: library and they had the storybook for Raiders of the
Speaker 1: Lost Ark. I remember Return of the Jedi, the hardcover,
Speaker 1: you know, with Luke on Jaba's barge, Like, oh so cool.
Speaker 1: And then and then I saw the Temple of Doom
Speaker 1: story books. I was like wow. So I remember reading
Speaker 1: it and flipping through the pages and in the children's
Speaker 1: storybook they had Mola Ram with the heart on fire
Speaker 1: in his hand.
Speaker 2: Well you can't leave out the heart obviously.
Speaker 1: Well and I remember looking at that like what am
Speaker 1: I looking at? Like this is but you couldn't look away? Right,
Speaker 1: it was and it was horrifying. But that that's my
Speaker 1: first memory of that seeing that in a book, And
Speaker 1: it's a practical effect. So I mean it looked like
Speaker 1: I was looking at a photograph of a real like
Speaker 1: real life horror event.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's crazy. See, So here we've got I don't
Speaker 2: know what we're supposed to feel about this relationship because
Speaker 2: I mean, he is clearly an adult man, yeah, and
Speaker 2: Carra is meant to be a schoolgirl.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So as I was rewatching this, I was like,
Speaker 2: I was like, was this normal? You know, because it
Speaker 2: because it brought to mind all those times on Saved
Speaker 2: by the Bill where Kelly was dating like not men,
Speaker 2: like like for adult men, right.
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: Like at one point she was dating her boss at
Speaker 2: the Max and it was it was Xander. It was
Speaker 2: Patrick Muldoon who played Xander Barclow on Starship Troopers.
Speaker 1: Okay, oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Right, and he just passed away actually in the last
Speaker 2: month or so.
Speaker 1: But I'm like, he was a grown up, yeah.
Speaker 2: And Kelly, like she's a high school junior, you know, yes,
Speaker 2: but it was very common, is my point? Right.
Speaker 1: I wonder if that has a lot to do with
Speaker 1: the writers. It must these like middle aged men writers,
Speaker 1: like if I could date Kelly Kapowski, it's roast.
Speaker 2: But like maybe I don't know, but you realize, like,
Speaker 2: was this just like normalized in our pop culture.
Speaker 1: I think it kind of was, honestly. I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: like to your point, you saw it a lot more often,
Speaker 1: and that was just It's one of these things where
Speaker 1: like now in the social media age, you'll see these
Speaker 1: Instagram posts where people will look back on these older
Speaker 1: shows and be like, was that kind of weird?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And maybe.
Speaker 1: People did think it was weird back then, but they
Speaker 1: didn't have outlets to express it like we do now,
Speaker 1: so you just rolled with it because that's the only
Speaker 1: entertainment we got.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean it wouldn't have taken much to
Speaker 2: make any of this age appropriate.
Speaker 1: Yeah sure, sure.
Speaker 2: Right, like either make Ethan younger or make Kara older. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: just have it be a college exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: And him, Yeah, like maybe he could be a college.
Speaker 1: This is like in the weeds, but like he could
Speaker 1: have been a student there, but he couldn't afford it,
Speaker 1: and so he's like working his way to pay for
Speaker 1: his own school or yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: Put them on equal footing in sort of.
Speaker 2: A way, right, And so that leads me to believe
Speaker 2: that that a lot of this was just culturally normalized. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, but I think that it just sort of
Speaker 2: circling back to the conversation we were having. I think
Speaker 2: I think a jaded, cynical car to me, is just
Speaker 2: more interesting, Yeah sure than sort of this this waife
Speaker 2: as she's portrayed as here, you know, mm hmm.
Speaker 1: You know, I want to call out when when Faye
Speaker 1: Dunaway is doing the spell. Yeah, I thing pointing her
Speaker 1: hand out at the carousel. You know what I really
Speaker 1: miss is really beautifully composed widescreen photography. You know, there
Speaker 1: are people that just came from a certain era, like
Speaker 1: an older school era, or even if the movie wasn't
Speaker 1: very good, they still knew how to compose a shot, right,
Speaker 1: you know, And I feel like we don't see that
Speaker 1: as much these days. It's a little bit more I
Speaker 1: don't called verite, but it's like, yeah, we're just capturing
Speaker 1: what's here, right, kind of a sensibility these days, which
Speaker 1: is not terrible, it's fine. But I do really love
Speaker 1: a well composed, you know, widescreen shot. Yeah, Like people
Speaker 1: of this vintage, that's just what they learned. That's what
Speaker 1: they learned.
Speaker 2: How to do You worked with what was available. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I think we live in such a green
Speaker 2: screen centric era that a lot of filmmakers are conditioned
Speaker 2: to just sort of get what you get and then
Speaker 2: we can fix it and post yeah. Yeah, which isn't
Speaker 2: necessarily a bad thing if the filmmakers in question have
Speaker 2: the skills to follow through on that, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if if it's the story, the style, totally
Speaker 1: that's fine. But I just find sometimes I'll watch these
Speaker 1: older not so great movies, but I'm like, yeah, but man,
Speaker 1: they shot the hell out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, well, I think that is a reflection
Speaker 2: of geno' zwark, who you know, I would not necessarily
Speaker 2: consider him a great director, but I think I think
Speaker 2: he knew his way around a shot, sure, and when
Speaker 2: the script allowed, you know, he was able to exercise
Speaker 2: some skill. You know. It's like I said, right, like
Speaker 2: when you and I talked through Jaws too. That was
Speaker 2: sort of that was my final takeaway as I'm like,
Speaker 2: he didn't embarrass himself. No, totally right, and even somewhere
Speaker 2: in time, which I don't like. I know a lot
Speaker 2: of people love that movie. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: it's badly directed, certainly, And it is a shame because
Speaker 2: because I feel like this this movie sort of detonated
Speaker 2: a grenade in his career because well this immediately after this,
Speaker 2: he worked at the sal Kinds again. He did Santa
Speaker 2: Claus the movie.
Speaker 1: I was literally about to bring that up because I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you, have you ever seen that?
Speaker 2: I have not seen it, but I don't know why,
Speaker 2: but I.
Speaker 1: Remember seeing it everywhere as a kid. I remember seeing
Speaker 1: something in the video store like books, and it seemed
Speaker 1: like sort of compelling because it came out when I
Speaker 1: was five. Sure, so I'm like, well, obviously I have
Speaker 1: a lot of interest in this man Santa Claus. He
Speaker 1: dictates an entire month of my year. But like, and
Speaker 1: it did look like a movie, you know, not like
Speaker 1: a brightly colored, made for kids kind of thing. It
Speaker 1: looked like, I don't know, like anything Steven Spielberg would make.
Speaker 1: And it starts Santa Claus. Like, it looked like a
Speaker 1: movie about Santa Claus. And I remember having interest in it,
Speaker 1: but I never got around to seeing it, and apparently
Speaker 1: it wasn't good, So I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was sort of a legendary flop. And it's
Speaker 2: weird because we can look at it now and be like, well,
Speaker 2: that seems like a terrible thing to spend a lot
Speaker 2: of money on. But you can also weirdly see the
Speaker 2: sol kinds of being like, hey, we got a lot
Speaker 2: of success with this other epic take on this beloved
Speaker 2: flying man in red. Oh sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's
Speaker 2: give it a shot with this, So you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, You can see both sides of it, But yeah,
Speaker 2: that one Jenno Swark directed, which that did have Dudley Moore,
Speaker 2: but yeah, they got him. I'm sure they were all
Speaker 2: very happy. Everybody was happy to Dudley Moore participate. But
Speaker 2: if this was like the the the body blow, that
Speaker 2: was the double tap, you know, I think in terms
Speaker 2: of Zwark's movie career, yeah, he would go and he
Speaker 2: directed a ton of television. In fact, speaking of Superman,
Speaker 2: he did like fifteen sixteen episodes of Small Bill.
Speaker 1: Ah, good friend.
Speaker 2: You know, I remember seeing his name in the credits
Speaker 2: of that and be like, oh from supergol actually, speaking
Speaker 2: of other super connections, Helen Slater on Small Bill, she
Speaker 2: played Laura Uh, Superman's father mother excuse me, and his
Speaker 2: father was played by the guy who just he just
Speaker 2: passed away. Remember he went hiking Julian Sands. Oh really, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah I remember he like he got lost on a hike.
Speaker 2: You remember that, and he just I do? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: So he played Jorel. And then Helen Slater would go
Speaker 2: on to play on the Supergirl television show right which
Speaker 2: was on the c CBS and then the CW. She
Speaker 2: played Eliza Danvers, Kara's human mother. Oh okay, yeah, and
Speaker 2: she In fact, Helen Slater played her human mom and
Speaker 2: Dean Kine played her her foster father.
Speaker 1: Hmm. Interesting.
Speaker 2: And then I think at some point they wrote Dean
Speaker 2: Kane out of the show once, like his his douchery
Speaker 2: became too pronounced right. Just just this past week, as
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, somebody shared a meme of Millie
Speaker 2: Alcock from the new film and they contrasted it with
Speaker 2: like a like the the Neanderthal people from Land of
Speaker 2: the Lost.
Speaker 1: Yes, I saw someone on my own Facebook page post
Speaker 1: this that I used to work with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and and he Dean Kane shared that and goes,
Speaker 2: I laughed, Yeah, And I'm just like, bro, like, what's
Speaker 2: wrong with you?
Speaker 1: You know, like I know, like this is like this.
Speaker 2: Is a human being you're talking about. I know that
Speaker 2: that is a person who is about to get thrust
Speaker 2: into just this freaking cauldron of fanboy rage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're in the family.
Speaker 2: You're in the family. Yeah, Like forget being like, hey,
Speaker 2: let's not talk about somebody like that that. I don't
Speaker 2: I don't even expect that anymore. But I'm like, you
Speaker 2: you could have just not said anything.
Speaker 1: You could have just not say exactly you know, and
Speaker 1: again that's she's like your sister now in a way,
Speaker 1: I mean to your point, Like all these Superman's stories,
Speaker 1: I love the way that they bring all these people
Speaker 1: back and keep it all in the family, and it
Speaker 1: feels like they're this fraternity that they would look out
Speaker 1: for one another and support one another and bring new
Speaker 1: people into the fold and make them feel welcome, and like,
Speaker 1: why the world would you? It's very strange, very strange.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, I think unfortunate. I mean, this is a
Speaker 2: broader conversation, but just sort of that online affirmation when
Speaker 2: somebody hits like on your friggin' bullshit, like whatever endorphin
Speaker 2: rush it sends to your brain, you know, right right,
Speaker 2: that's a it's a broader discussion, but I mean it's
Speaker 2: it is. I feel terrible already for whatever Millie Alcock
Speaker 2: is going through. I know, I know, you know, because
Speaker 2: it's just it's it's it's just who wants to deal
Speaker 2: with this? You know? I know? I know now now
Speaker 2: that said, I met Helen Slater at a convention twenty
Speaker 2: years ago or so, yeah, and I have to admit
Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, oh man, I mean, well I
Speaker 2: thought she was gorgeous when this movie.
Speaker 1: Came out, you know for sure. I mean, yeah, she's beautiful, She's.
Speaker 2: She's luminous even now, you know.
Speaker 1: That's awesome.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a nice got to have a it was
Speaker 2: I was. I was there like before the floor opened up,
Speaker 2: so I was actually able to have like actual conversations
Speaker 2: with people, which is really nice. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. That'll
Speaker 1: be my follow up to this as I'll check out
Speaker 1: the legend of Billy Jean.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, you know, I mean that that's kind of
Speaker 2: the thing for me is I'm always I'm always glad
Speaker 2: when you have somebody make their debut in a film
Speaker 2: like this, and even if the movie underperforms, if they've
Speaker 2: done a good job, like they are rewarded in terms
Speaker 2: of some degree of career longevity. Right. It's a little
Speaker 2: bit like Kyle McLaughlin in Dune. Mmm, sure, right, where
Speaker 2: I'm like that that movie should have just just been
Speaker 2: a nuclear event for his career. Right, But my man
Speaker 2: has never stopped working.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you know yeah, and David Lynch obviously found
Speaker 1: some sort of muse with him, right, I mean the
Speaker 1: velvet and direst of course, I don't know. I just
Speaker 1: actually I was laughing more at the scene earlier where
Speaker 1: I can't even remember these characters' names. Stay down away,
Speaker 1: she like throws a coconut.
Speaker 2: Yeah you know it just with with remarkable precision.
Speaker 1: Yeah, heart Backner's head on a beach. And then Beyonca's
Speaker 1: just sitting there kind of with her legs crossed and
Speaker 1: holding a cigarette, just watching it all go down. And
Speaker 1: I'm like, what, this is such a funny movie.
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing, right, because because getting beamed on
Speaker 2: the melon with a coconut.
Speaker 1: From the sky no less yeah right, not just a tree.
Speaker 2: And it came from out of like it had to
Speaker 2: have achieved escape velocity. Yeah right, And so that's something
Speaker 2: you roll with in a comedy. But if we're living
Speaker 2: in an ostensibly real world, I'm like, he should be dead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd be dead. I mean, isn't one of those
Speaker 1: facts that comes up a lot where a certain number
Speaker 1: of people die a year because coconuts fall in their heads.
Speaker 2: That is fascinating and frightening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so stay away from coconut trees, or at least
Speaker 1: not directly underneath them, ye stand away.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he disappears.
Speaker 1: I kind of want like a, I know, that's what
Speaker 1: we needed, or why not just go?
Speaker 2: You know, whenever you have scenes in movies like what
Speaker 2: we just saw here, where you have characters who are
Speaker 2: like they're able, they're able to see what's happening far away,
Speaker 2: you know, yes, yes, I think I were, and we
Speaker 2: see the image. I'm always like, how how is the
Speaker 2: camera placement dictated on what you see?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Huh yes, right, like yeah, it's very specific, like the
Speaker 2: framing and everything.
Speaker 1: This is yes, Yeah, it's like when people watch home
Speaker 1: movies in movies, but they're like cut, they're they're edited exactly,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's how not how home movies work.
Speaker 1: They're handheld uncut, that's right. Yeah, they look like produced cinema.
Speaker 1: So yeah, her magic mirror effect is kind of funny
Speaker 1: because it's like cinema framing, cinema editing is exactly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this mountain, you know, looks pretty good. Not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: I don't know about the liquid that's coming down the sides,
Speaker 1: but right effect the lighting making it looks like it
Speaker 1: look like it's at the end of the street. That's
Speaker 1: pretty good.
Speaker 2: But I think to the point you were making earlier
Speaker 2: it's I we don't know anything about Selena. Yeah, so
Speaker 2: it's kind of like, why does she want this? Why
Speaker 2: does she want to castle on top of the mountain?
Speaker 1: Right, Like, yeah, it's just a funny sentence. Why does
Speaker 1: she want a castle on top of a mountain? I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: It seems inconvenient to me. I'm just gonna put this
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: I don't disagree, which, by the way, just reminds me
Speaker 1: of one of my favorite things that makes me smile,
Speaker 1: and I wouldn't change or have any other way. But
Speaker 1: I love in Edward Scissorhands how it takes place in
Speaker 1: this like hilarious nineteen fifties suburban neighborhood. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the street there's this giant Gothic castle on
Speaker 1: a mountain that they're like, oh, yeah, that thing.
Speaker 2: That's right. I love that basically that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's a fairy tale.
Speaker 2: This is trying to be a fairy tale. That's true.
Speaker 2: I think the fact that Okay, I mean, granted, you
Speaker 2: don't have Chris Reeve. Chris Reeves. Chris Reeve made very
Speaker 2: clear he wants something to do with this. Yeah, although
Speaker 2: hopefully he did get a check for them using his
Speaker 2: face on that poster. Right. But I think even still,
Speaker 2: by virtue of Mark McClure being in this movie, you're
Speaker 2: explicitly connecting it to those other movies. So I think
Speaker 2: you have responsibility to make it fit, not just tonally,
Speaker 2: but also in terms of how you how you depict
Speaker 2: the world, right. And I think that's the problem, is
Speaker 2: that there's nothing there's nothing in the prior films that
Speaker 2: talks about magic as a factor, you know, right. And
Speaker 2: I'm not saying magic can't exist, you know, I am
Speaker 2: saying I don't like this wasn't the movie to do it.
Speaker 2: That would have been something that you do in the
Speaker 2: sequel once you have explicitly connected this to that the
Speaker 2: previous films, right right.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's it's like one thing I always say is like audience,
Speaker 2: Like in terms of suspension of disbelief, your audience will
Speaker 2: go with you. But once you establish the rules, you
Speaker 2: you can only gently push those boundaries, you can't break them,
Speaker 2: right right. It's it's like if a cyborg showed up
Speaker 2: in Lord of the Rings, right right, you'd be like,
Speaker 2: come on, even though it's a world of orcs and
Speaker 2: demons and everything else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, Actually that's a that's a great example. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, I like those things, but those things
Speaker 1: don't mesh in my mind.
Speaker 2: Exactly, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the I've always loved the effect, the phantom zone effect.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's cool, the glass or the mirror floating, yeah,
Speaker 1: twirling through space.
Speaker 2: But my question is, so the the thing that you know,
Speaker 2: the glass thing, so is that I always thought that
Speaker 2: is the phantom zone.
Speaker 1: I thought so too. Yeah, but of course what.
Speaker 2: We see here makes it seem like it's a vessel
Speaker 2: that gets you to the phantom zone.
Speaker 1: Right, which is like this desolate planet. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is very confusing, right, I.
Speaker 1: Mean that wasn't the case before. But they needed her
Speaker 1: to meet with the Peter O'Toole again, and that would
Speaker 1: be kind of funny actually if that happened just in
Speaker 1: a floating mirror, Like she's standing like ah and then
Speaker 1: he's like ough and like bumps into her and she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: what are you doing here? It's just you know, as
Speaker 1: they're confined to this small little shard of glass floating
Speaker 1: through space.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, like I wonder if there was a better
Speaker 2: way to visualize it.
Speaker 1: So it doesn't just look like she sent her to Mars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I I yeah, exactly right, because because if
Speaker 2: you remember, you know, in in in Superman the movie,
Speaker 2: we see the three criminals are are are sent to
Speaker 2: the Phantom Zone, and that glass is just spinning in space, right,
Speaker 2: and then in Superman two, the nuclear blasts or the
Speaker 2: atomic bomb it explodes, and then and then they're freed
Speaker 2: from the prison, right, So then by that means they
Speaker 2: have been in the phantom Zone that entire time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I.
Speaker 2: Feel like, what what what might have been more effective
Speaker 2: is you see her enveloped in the in the thing,
Speaker 2: you know, and and it goes off into space, and
Speaker 2: then essentially our perspective shifts, so it's like the camera
Speaker 2: passes through the glass and now we're seeing it from
Speaker 2: the inside out.
Speaker 3: Mmm.
Speaker 2: Does that make sense totally? Yeah, So that way we're
Speaker 2: not doing the thing like it shatters and she's it's
Speaker 2: like that we go through and now we see what
Speaker 2: it's like inside for the people who are there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, which in my mind would be some sort
Speaker 1: of like big haunting house of mirrors or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Or I mean it can even make sense, right or
Speaker 1: it makes a little sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like there's no time there's no space, there's nothing.
Speaker 1: It's just exactly.
Speaker 2: I have to say. I was watching this with my
Speaker 2: daughter and right away she's like, Zaltar is going to
Speaker 2: find her. Really, so she's she's plugged into this stuff.
Speaker 1: I wasn't even thinking about it, but I so this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this I think was a moment again where I like
Speaker 1: looked down for a second and I was like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, why did they have signs against her? How
Speaker 1: do they even know who this person is?
Speaker 2: That's what I'm saying. It's it's like she snapped her
Speaker 2: fingers and now it's it's Biff nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 2: But that's my question is like, is it like she
Speaker 2: was operating in si in in silence this entire time,
Speaker 2: like you know, nobody knew who she was, and then
Speaker 2: suddenly now everybody knows or was it always like oh
Speaker 2: that crazy witch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they know that there's that crazy person in town.
Speaker 2: So this here where Lucy's like my roommate Linda, and
Speaker 2: then they both be on Ka and Selena are like
Speaker 2: the whimp. I'm like, that is the weirdest thing in
Speaker 2: this movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I read something I don't know if this is
Speaker 1: true or not, but that apparently you see some big
Speaker 1: puddle of water that suddenly appears in the scene, okay,
Speaker 1: right there maybe or maybe when they're standing there with
Speaker 1: the signs, and apparently it's from a deleted scene where
Speaker 1: Selena turns a protester into an ice statue and shatters it.
Speaker 2: Cool.
Speaker 1: Cool, cool, that's what I said. I was like, I
Speaker 1: kin see that, right of all the things to not
Speaker 1: cut and the.
Speaker 2: Thing kind of a cut, kind of a moss Man
Speaker 2: in Masters of the Universe. Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, right
Speaker 2: here this is where and I was like, yep, it's
Speaker 2: Altar or actually she was like, it's what's his name, Zaltar?
Speaker 1: She said that yeah, literally wow.
Speaker 2: So she was paying attention.
Speaker 1: She's like, this is when Lawrence of Arabio shows up,
Speaker 1: knowing your daughter. Seriously.
Speaker 2: There's also a funny bit later where where they see her,
Speaker 2: you know, Patty and Selma see you're in the Phantoms yea,
Speaker 2: and they're like, she's with some old guy. And I
Speaker 2: was like, how old was peedo o'tool? And he's like
Speaker 2: early fifties.
Speaker 1: He's fifty one. I looked at him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, okay, come on, yeah. Still he seems
Speaker 2: like a perfectly adequate fifty year old man. Come on, right, right, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: Peter O'Toole is an interesting cat, though. You know, it's
Speaker 2: like it definitely feels like he sort of fell victim
Speaker 2: to his own, you know, predilections.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I remember he had that kind of comeback
Speaker 1: moment with Venus. That's right, maybe like fifteen twenty years ago,
Speaker 1: and I don't remember if he was nominated.
Speaker 2: I think twenty thirteen he died.
Speaker 1: Okay, right, he either was nominated or won an Oscar
Speaker 1: for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had his I'm looking now. He's on the Tutors.
Speaker 2: That's right, he was in the Tutors. I forgot about that.
Speaker 1: I'd ratitituey. He's anton Ego, that's right. Well, I was
Speaker 1: spot on twenty years Venus anyway. Yeah, yeah, but I
Speaker 1: know him best from Lawrence of Arabia.
Speaker 2: Oh not from Supergirl.
Speaker 1: Well now, Zaltar, the guy who sacrifices himself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Tutors, by the way, which also start Henry Cavill.
Speaker 1: Oh really see, Oh, there's.
Speaker 2: So many Superman interconnections at these.
Speaker 1: Things, you know, Yeah, there really is.
Speaker 2: See Jimmy Olsen is so completely useless in this movie.
Speaker 2: That's what I feel bad for Mark McClure, because he's
Speaker 2: entirely right. I'm sure. I'm sure he was happy to
Speaker 2: get that paycheck.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say, I guess it's like you
Speaker 1: know that a pros and cons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because because he he said like he had just
Speaker 2: finished Superman three, which was also in the UK, and
Speaker 2: they're probably like, hey, hang out for another couple of
Speaker 2: weeks and and just do this thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, create a link. I understand it, but they just
Speaker 1: don't make it seem necessary at all.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, I guess what I'm saying is I would
Speaker 2: have liked for this film to show us a little
Speaker 2: bit of a side of him, like, you know, all
Speaker 2: that hanging around Superman has taught him something.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, totally totally. But instead he's just a man
Speaker 1: of inaction, yeah when stuff's going down, and then he
Speaker 1: gets to be like another person in a hanging from
Speaker 1: the ceiling in a cage exactly you know who He
Speaker 1: even comments on like what seriously hanging in a cage
Speaker 1: from the ceiling? How unoriginal?
Speaker 2: Basically that's just Mark McClure.
Speaker 1: I've I was like, do you know that that little
Speaker 1: trivia from the Lego movie where Morgan Freeman's wizard character
Speaker 1: He's is something like, all right, we gotta write all
Speaker 1: that down because I'm not gonna remember any of it, Okay,
Speaker 1: And apparently, and it sounds very random and funny in
Speaker 1: the movie, and it turns out that was Morgan Freeman
Speaker 1: unhappy while they were recording and excited to use it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's hilarious.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: So you gotta wonder you have that's Mark McClure, Like,
Speaker 1: what seriously hanging from a ceiling? Who wrote this stuff? Yeah?
Speaker 2: See, So going back to what I was saying earlier,
Speaker 2: if you make Zaltar Zorel and you make him Kara's.
Speaker 1: Father, oh man, Yeah, doesn't that.
Speaker 2: Make all of this just a lot more emotional? Yeah?
Speaker 1: All of it? All of it like we forgive you.
Speaker 1: I I'm being punished for your mistake, but like I'm
Speaker 1: gonna help you get out here to correct it. You know,
Speaker 1: I'll sacrifice myself absolutely, you know.
Speaker 2: Again, It's just those are those types of choices that
Speaker 2: I look at and I'm like, well, I don't think
Speaker 2: I'm you know, that ahead of the curve, you know,
Speaker 2: And it's not like it's oh well forty years of hindsight.
Speaker 2: I mean, this feels like the type of decision making
Speaker 2: you make it while this is all coming right, because
Speaker 2: ultimately it's like, how how do we connect every character
Speaker 2: to our main character in a way where there's some
Speaker 2: emotional push and pull? And that's a no brainer to me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and you allow because to me, this is
Speaker 2: the equivalent of, you know, when when Superman is able
Speaker 2: to connect with his father through the computer in the
Speaker 2: Fortress Solitude. You know, it's just it's like this thing
Speaker 2: that she thought she had lost, but now she has it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and you know, her final test is that she you know,
Speaker 2: she has to lose her mentor you know. Yep.
Speaker 1: Gotta say, man, the practical sets yeah something to it.
Speaker 2: By the way, she's really good in this scene.
Speaker 1: I was literally thinking that when she takes the squirt
Speaker 1: bottle thing, yeah and kind of does this this smile.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, wow.
Speaker 1: That's really good. Yeah, She's she's experiencing a lot of
Speaker 1: feelings right here, and she's expressing them really well.
Speaker 2: Now the the sal Kinds initially wanted brook Shields.
Speaker 1: For this fal I mean, I can see that especially
Speaker 1: in this moment.
Speaker 2: At this moment, I can see it. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: I think Brooke Shields was in the mix. I know
Speaker 2: Demi Moore read for it interesting and I think ultimately
Speaker 2: I think with Brooke Shields they just decided she was
Speaker 2: too famous. M and and I mean certainly that's true
Speaker 2: in that that was exactly the process they went through
Speaker 2: with with Superman. Right where before Chris Reeve comes in,
Speaker 2: they're looking at gosh, like Sylvester Stallone and Robert Redford
Speaker 2: and you know al Pacino like and and the problem
Speaker 2: is anybody who you know that well is going to
Speaker 2: look like that actor wearing a super Man suit, right right,
Speaker 2: And so they they really did break the mold when
Speaker 2: they found Christopher Reeve, right, I think in terms so
Speaker 2: that thinking of being like, let's find an unknown like
Speaker 2: like Chris Reeve for this, that worked out Lynd Stallmaster,
Speaker 2: same casting director. H And I think, like I was
Speaker 2: saying earlier, I think Helen Slater plays the role in
Speaker 2: the same she's in the same lane as Chris Reeve.
Speaker 2: But I think the movie does let her down rather often.
Speaker 1: Yeah, agreed.
Speaker 2: One thing one thing she did speak about it was
Speaker 2: how generous Peter O'Toole was as a scene partner, and yeah,
Speaker 2: and how much she learned from him, you know, for.
Speaker 1: Someone who's so young and he's already a legend at
Speaker 1: this point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he would have easily been like, man, f this,
Speaker 2: what am I doing here?
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, but treating her like a peer, Yeah, scene partner,
Speaker 1: and that's just only going to make the work better.
Speaker 2: I agree. Yeah, And again I think Peter O'Toole is
Speaker 2: good in this movie. That's the other thing, right, I'm
Speaker 2: watching it type yeah, yeah, you know, I think that
Speaker 2: obviously the movie was leaning into the fact that he
Speaker 2: was a legend, and they were leaning they were trying
Speaker 2: to use that to him and fade down away where
Speaker 2: like the I'll look at all the look at the
Speaker 2: people we got in this movie, you know, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: they showed up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's true. They don't look like they have
Speaker 1: one eye already on how to get out of the studio.
Speaker 2: On the sack of cash with a dollar sign on it,
Speaker 2: except just off camera, you know. See. I think this
Speaker 2: bit here where he sacrifices himself doesn't hit for me.
Speaker 1: Okay, I want to hear why because I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: feeling something similar. But I also didn't quite understand it that.
Speaker 2: So that's my issue is, yeah, I don't I don't
Speaker 2: understand what got him here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, because and I think.
Speaker 2: Just a little bit of dialogue would have done it, right,
Speaker 2: because in the early part of the film, he talks
Speaker 2: about how he wants to leave Argo. He's like, maybe
Speaker 2: I'll go to Earth or whatever, and and here he's
Speaker 2: just like, ah, screw it, you know, I can't weather
Speaker 2: the storm. And and I just think we needed to
Speaker 2: connect one thing to the other, like if it's if
Speaker 2: it's if it's he's so torn apart by despair that
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm not strong enough. Well that's interesting, but
Speaker 2: I think the dialogue should alluded to that, like the
Speaker 2: Phantom zone has just broken.
Speaker 1: Him, right, he's been there for so long.
Speaker 2: Yeah that's yeah, that's interesting. Or he's desperate to get out,
Speaker 2: but but he knows that by sacrificing himself, Kara can
Speaker 2: get out exactly, then that's interesting. But we don't get
Speaker 2: either of those.
Speaker 1: See that's when I went on Wikipedia because I didn't
Speaker 1: understand why he had to sacrifice himself, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a little bit like Jonesy I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be okay, you know.
Speaker 1: Right right from Crystal Skill.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great. I remember, I remember you see it.
Speaker 2: You're like yeah, bye, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm I don't understand he and Indie's relationship. I certainly
Speaker 1: as an audience member, do not care about that character.
Speaker 1: Just like a wink and a just let me go,
Speaker 1: It'll be all right. I'm like fine bye see yeah.
Speaker 2: Jeez, yeah, I think that if this is if this
Speaker 2: is him saying, you know, alone, I can't get out
Speaker 2: of here. But now that the two of us are,
Speaker 2: we can help each other. And then they're this close,
Speaker 2: and it's one of these things where he realizes it's
Speaker 2: either him or her, and so it's got to be her.
Speaker 2: Then that's something totally you know, but he just kind
Speaker 2: of like, no, I can't do it, and he just
Speaker 2: flings himself in right, like yeah. It's very strange.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, sort of like I thought of that moment
Speaker 1: in Titanic when DiCaprio tries to get on the door
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, and then it won't work, and then he
Speaker 1: does this little thing to himself. He's like right, like yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: like that's how it's gotta be. Like it would be
Speaker 1: nice if we got a moment here where he's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: the two of us and then realizes, oh, only one
Speaker 1: of us can make it, and he's like, yep, nope,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, right, that scene in Titanic that
Speaker 2: it pisses me off that to this day, we're coming
Speaker 2: up on thirty years, people like, there's enough room on
Speaker 2: the door for both of them. I'm like, no, there wasn't.
Speaker 2: I know, he tried. It didn't work. Pablished in the movie.
Speaker 1: I know. I mean, maybe it would have helped if
Speaker 1: the door had looked smaller, just for you know whatever,
Speaker 1: But yes, it is established in the movie that it
Speaker 1: won't work.
Speaker 2: Dude. It it drives me bananas that people say that
Speaker 2: shit right now in the Year of Our Lord twenty
Speaker 2: twenty six, like they have just discovered something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like they have something over it exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's like every few months on social media,
Speaker 2: somebody gonna be like, if Batman really wanted to help
Speaker 2: people instead of beating up the mentally ill, he would
Speaker 2: pay for their treatment.
Speaker 1: Dude. I just saw that recently too, and I was like,
Speaker 1: that's not what he does.
Speaker 2: I know. I'm like, you just thought you came up
Speaker 2: with something, didn't you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so funny.
Speaker 1: I bet her algorithms are pretty similar.
Speaker 2: Would imagine which I'm gonna say, good, Yeah, she looks.
Speaker 1: Great, doesn't she. There put their hands on her hips, Supergirl.
Speaker 2: Like she's got the this gick us up. I know, man,
Speaker 2: that's good. It's got the physicality.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like this is very like comic bookie, right, like
Speaker 1: old school comic bookie. It's like now there's like hot
Speaker 1: spikes on the ground, yeah, or sort of like Indiana Jones,
Speaker 1: like Temple of Doom a little bit like the spikes
Speaker 1: in that room coming down.
Speaker 2: And that's right. This was the same year, is that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, wow, that's weird to think about. So Ghostbusters
Speaker 1: Temple of Doom this eighty four.
Speaker 2: See that's the thing, right, you look at the Temple
Speaker 2: of Doom and you can watch that right now, forty
Speaker 2: plus years later and it feels contemporary, right, dude, totally right.
Speaker 2: And so that's like watching it, Like you say, this
Speaker 2: and Temple of Doom came out within a few months
Speaker 2: of each other. I don't believe it.
Speaker 1: Guess what the budget was on Temple of Doom less
Speaker 1: than this twenty eight million. There you go versus this
Speaker 1: movie's thirty five. So I mean it goes to show
Speaker 1: sometimes throwing more money thing isn't always the right approach. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're so right. Yeah, yeah, that movie does look contemporary.
Speaker 2: Like if if you watch Templa Doom right now, kids
Speaker 2: will be engrossed in it and not have to make
Speaker 2: a lot of excuses.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a few, you know, Matt paintings aside, but sure,
Speaker 1: and the filmmaking, the acting, the yeah, the adventure of
Speaker 1: the peril, the stunts, that stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1: This movie's excuse.
Speaker 2: That's that's the weird thing. You know, it doubly because
Speaker 2: you know, they were coming off of Superman three, which
Speaker 2: was not received well, and so you think they would
Speaker 2: have doubled down more on really locking in the story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, because this movie was announced before Superman three
Speaker 2: mm and I think initially the plan was for her
Speaker 2: to that's a very funny bit from her character. By
Speaker 2: the way, Aca character, I like her very broad. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think she she's she's kind of in the right
Speaker 2: lane for this movie.
Speaker 1: I know Parker Posey already was in a Superman movie,
Speaker 1: but I can see a Parker Posy type now, yep
Speaker 1: doing her.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oddly enough, they didn't let Parker Posey play a
Speaker 2: Parker Posey type.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right. She's just kind of damsel in distress
Speaker 1: really yeah and bored and yeah.
Speaker 2: But what was I saying?
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm sorry I derailed you.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, that was me. Uh yeah. They planned to
Speaker 2: introduce her in Superman three. Uh oh, okay, okay, and
Speaker 2: initially Ilia saul Kind was like, oh, we're writing out
Speaker 2: Lois and Superman's new love interest will be Supergirl. Oh, which, like, bro,
Speaker 2: did you I mean, maybe look into the characters you
Speaker 2: own the rights to just get that all figured out beforehand. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: They decided not to do that, and I think maybe
Speaker 2: that would have been smart. I mean, I wonder if
Speaker 2: the current Superman folks specifically thought of that, And that's
Speaker 2: why they had Supergirl show up at the end of
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty five movie m so that it's like
Speaker 2: it's it's rooted within the world that people already know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is linked they know each other exactly, you know.
Speaker 2: Okay, So so this looks terrible.
Speaker 1: I was about to give this movie a compliment and
Speaker 1: then I was like, wow, yeah, but I just real quick,
Speaker 1: the Faye Dunaway stuff here with their hair blowing and
Speaker 1: the back lighting and the fog, that's all fine. I
Speaker 1: was like, you know, sometimes just great craft can look
Speaker 1: even better than a visual effect. Yes, Like I really
Speaker 1: believe she's harnessing some sort of magic and it's spooky
Speaker 1: looking and dazzling looking. I was like, man, you gotta
Speaker 1: give it to the old school stuff here, like they
Speaker 1: worked with what they had and sometimes it feels even
Speaker 1: more magical to me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you get then you have this yeah, yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're they're doing well. This is right.
Speaker 1: What is happening?
Speaker 2: So the monster has Kara and he's twisting her like taffy.
Speaker 1: I guess, okay, okay, that's what I thought is happening.
Speaker 2: And then zaltar Obi wants this thing, yeah, and so
Speaker 2: that's her way out. But I'm just like, guys, you
Speaker 2: had to have known how stupid this looks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it doesn't look like she's actually there. It's
Speaker 1: she's kind of transparent or something.
Speaker 2: The shadow Demon is a physical presence because she fought
Speaker 2: the invisible version earlier. So I'm like, why don't you
Speaker 2: have her use heat vision or something like something so
Speaker 2: that we don't have to see that where she twisted
Speaker 2: and looks ridiculous.
Speaker 1: You know, this movie costs more than Temple of Doom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, think about that, wild. I mean, it costs more
Speaker 2: than Star Wars, you know, yeah, yeah, I think that
Speaker 2: was seventeen million. Yeah, so I feel like this all
Speaker 2: kinds solution is always just throw money at it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, because they were basically like Return of
Speaker 2: the Jedi cost less than this movie that was thirty
Speaker 2: two and a half million. That was just that was
Speaker 2: just a year earlier.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you know, the sal Kinds were like gold
Speaker 2: and Globus. I feel like kind of you know, they
Speaker 2: would they would get stars on board, they would raise
Speaker 2: a bunch of money from international investors, and then just
Speaker 2: use that like, oh just figure it out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was gonna say, maybe that's a real
Speaker 1: testament to ILM. Also in that story, they were not
Speaker 1: only pioneers, but they were the best of the best.
Speaker 1: Like they were innovating and doing it exceptionally well. And
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to disparage the people who
Speaker 1: worked on this, but like maybe just I don't know,
Speaker 1: they had developed the same sorts of tricks, and they
Speaker 1: were working with whatever they had to work with.
Speaker 2: But see that that's the weird thing, right because because
Speaker 2: Superman three, it was just a year earlier, And say
Speaker 2: what you will about that movie. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: defend it. I will say I probably have the same
Speaker 2: level of nostalgia for Superman three that a lot of
Speaker 2: folks likely have with this one. You know, but I
Speaker 2: mean it's not you know, it's not a well written film.
Speaker 2: But one thing you can say is that the effects
Speaker 2: largely hold up.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's my memory. I've only seen it the one
Speaker 1: time with you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's a few, like you said,
Speaker 2: you know, occasionally there's matt lines that aren't perfect, but
Speaker 2: by and large, the effects work. And many of the
Speaker 2: same people who made those films, those first three Superman's
Speaker 2: were involved in this, which is why the fall off
Speaker 2: effects wise is very odd to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, huh. How do they do that? Get her
Speaker 1: to fly out that door? Huh, that's what you need?
Speaker 1: The mountain disappears. See this is so stupid, but I
Speaker 1: actually thought he's to be like, Wow, our love can
Speaker 1: move mountains.
Speaker 2: So this here, he says goodbye Linda because he figured
Speaker 2: it out. And then he's like hmm okay, and then
Speaker 2: he just walks.
Speaker 1: In the world.
Speaker 2: Right like why would you not have the camera trained
Speaker 2: on his face? He has this look of longing as
Speaker 2: she leaves, and then you.
Speaker 1: Cut like the end of et like yes with Elliott
Speaker 1: looking at the sky wind blowing the hair. Yes, one hundred.
Speaker 2: What are you doing? You know?
Speaker 1: What he should have done is like put his hands
Speaker 1: in his pocket and go oh. And then he sees
Speaker 1: a penny on the ground and picks it up, flips it,
Speaker 1: catches it, puts it in his pocket, walked away, so we.
Speaker 2: Don't get to see her fly back to Argo as
Speaker 2: her entire community is dead.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's what it should have, all of them either, yeah,
Speaker 1: suffocating on the ground like where have you been?
Speaker 2: They could have had like the mist ending you.
Speaker 1: Know, yes, yes, yes, oh man.
Speaker 2: So one thing I should say. You know, they had
Speaker 2: the big premiere in the UK for this, and Christopher
Speaker 2: Reeve was there, you know, and so you know, I
Speaker 2: think during the production, even though he wasn't involved, I
Speaker 2: know that Helen Slater spoke with him just to get
Speaker 2: kind of a lay of the land, and you know
Speaker 2: he gave her good advice and they never got to
Speaker 2: appear on screen together in live action, but they did
Speaker 2: the CGI recreation in the flash.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, just you leading up to that.
Speaker 1: It unlocked a memory.
Speaker 2: Yep. I read that, which I know a lot of
Speaker 2: people have strong negative feelings about that film broadly, and
Speaker 2: you know that sequence in particular. I will say, you know,
Speaker 2: I I certainly appreciated that the intent behind it, and
Speaker 2: I've said all along, if the families are okay with it,
Speaker 2: or in this case sounds later herself, it's okay with it.
Speaker 2: I really don't have a problem with them doing that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Same, I don't know. I felt like we were
Speaker 1: on another planet with that movie. It's very weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I stand by it. I mean I haven't revisited
Speaker 2: a ton, but I enjoyed it then and I have
Speaker 2: enjoyed it when I have revisited it. Yeah.
Speaker 1: By the way, can I just say this movie's credit
Speaker 1: game is on point.
Speaker 2: If you're spending a million dollars per credit sequence, then yeah.
Speaker 1: But like it's sort of different. Yeah, it reminds me
Speaker 1: of the Star Wars crawl, but not exactly. It almost
Speaker 1: looks like a camera up high pointed toward like a
Speaker 1: soldiers marching towards you, or something like a slightly overhead
Speaker 1: and it looks amazing. And look as the credits get
Speaker 1: close to the bottom of the frame, they go out
Speaker 1: of focus. Yeah, like someone put a lot of thought
Speaker 1: into this.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's my takeaway. The credits in this movie are
Speaker 1: just a plus.
Speaker 2: There you go, this is this is like phishing for
Speaker 2: a compliment. What do you think of the movie? Well,
Speaker 2: the credits really blew my hair back.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So this is your second time, second and final time
Speaker 2: watching Supergirl from nineteen eighty four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably probably. I You know, that's the thing, right,
Speaker 1: because there was even as you said that, I know,
Speaker 1: I joked about it earlier, but I thought, well, maybe
Speaker 1: if it was on TV or something, maybe i'd stop
Speaker 1: on it. But then I thought, that's a problem with
Speaker 1: this movie. There's so few scenes I would actually want
Speaker 1: to stop on.
Speaker 2: That's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe the tractor thing in the middle or you know,
Speaker 1: sort of the first half of the movie. But then
Speaker 1: as it's just you know, the witch milling about her
Speaker 1: layer just measure mirror stuff, I'm probably not gonna want
Speaker 1: to stop on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, That's what you realize is you know, you
Speaker 2: said magic mirror, and when they were putting this thing together,
Speaker 2: they basically just they just they they did snow White,
Speaker 2: and they did a fine replace and put you know,
Speaker 2: Supergirl's name in the script wherever snow White appears, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's very much and and that speaks to, I think,
Speaker 2: sort of an unseiousness because you're like, oh, we got
Speaker 2: to make something girls alike, and it's like again, I
Speaker 2: if I were to bet, I would say there were
Speaker 2: plenty of female viewers of those first two Superman movies
Speaker 2: totally totally right, and they plugged into the romance and
Speaker 2: and all that other stuff while in the context of
Speaker 2: an action picture. And so I think it tells you
Speaker 2: something that you had Supergirl and then about twenty years
Speaker 2: later you had Catwoman, and both are awful. I think
Speaker 2: both remain like the lowest rotten Tomato scores, you know,
Speaker 2: for like a DC movie. And and so you have
Speaker 2: these two flops that really oh and then and then
Speaker 2: the Electra you know somewhere oh yeah, right around there.
Speaker 1: I remember it well.
Speaker 2: I I'm sure you do. But those like dissuaded studios
Speaker 2: from taking a swing on female superheroes. Yeah, and it's like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, why don't you just treat it like
Speaker 2: a superhero picture that happens to have a female lead
Speaker 2: instead of exactly, instead of like second guessing yourself.
Speaker 1: You know, it's amazing that we're finally possibly catching up
Speaker 1: to that idea.
Speaker 2: Hopefully, you know. I mean, as we are recording, we
Speaker 2: have no idea what Supergirl twenty twenty six, what the
Speaker 2: prognostications are for it. But I certainly hope it does
Speaker 2: well just to sort of prove the naysayers wrong. Obviously,
Speaker 2: I hope the movie is good more than anything. But yeah, said,
Speaker 2: you know, I think there is this tendency. It's it's
Speaker 2: it's only gotten worse, Like I said, the real polarized,
Speaker 2: weird internet conversations. But I feel like, look, if you
Speaker 2: make a good picture, people show up. Yeah. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: but hey, let us know, let us know your thoughts
Speaker 2: on Supergirl from I For I know that this is
Speaker 2: a movie that a lot of our listeners likely do
Speaker 2: have some nostalgia for, so I definitely want to hear
Speaker 2: your thoughts totally on the film and our thoughts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I completely understand that because there are movies that
Speaker 1: I grew up with that I can look at now
Speaker 1: and be like, Wen, I probably wouldn't show anybody that
Speaker 1: that's what they hadn't seen it before, because it's just
Speaker 1: something I enjoyed when I was a kid. There's a
Speaker 1: nostalgic attachment, and so I completely understand that there are
Speaker 1: people who probably love this movie, you know, because they
Speaker 1: grew up with it, and so I definitely want to
Speaker 1: hear their feelings about that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And if you want to send those to us,
Speaker 2: you can email us at moviefilm podcast at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: You can also hit like on our Facebook page Facebook
Speaker 2: dot com slash movie Film Podcast and message us there.
Speaker 2: As always, please go to Apple Podcasts and leave review,
Speaker 2: leave a star rating. Every little bit helps, And if
Speaker 2: you're listening to this show on YouTube, please hit like,
Speaker 2: hit subscribe, and of course leave a comment there because
Speaker 2: we do read those on the show as well. Brian,
Speaker 2: I know we have a Patreon also, that's right.
Speaker 1: If you head over to Patreon slash moviefilm Podcast, hit
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Speaker 2: We'd be very grateful. And if you're looking for me online,
Speaker 2: you can find me on social media at Zachi's corner.
Speaker 2: That's the Akis Corner. You can also read my reviews
Speaker 2: at the San Francisco Chronicle and also at IGN and
Speaker 2: The Rap What About You, Brian, You.
Speaker 1: Can find episodes I've written of Puppy Dog Pals and
Speaker 1: Young Jedi Adventures streaming on Disney Plus and with that on.
Speaker 2: Behalf of my partner Brian Hall. My name is Zachi Hasan.
Speaker 2: This has been our movie film commentary track for nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty four Supergirl. We'll catch you next time. Thanks everybody,