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Low actually a lot, So 22 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.840 sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbu 23 00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.479 Casino dot com. No personesses every d void over every 24 00:00:59.520 --> 00:01:00.920 by Lost Eaters Conditions eighteen plus. 25 00:01:08.040 --> 00:01:11.439 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 26 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.560 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:21.920 written about them Geese, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every 28 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:25.640 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.920 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:29.959 --> 00:01:42.760 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening. 31 00:01:43.359 --> 00:01:46.319 Murder is the most vile crime known to man. It 32 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.920 can be triggered by love, or money, or sex. Those 33 00:01:49.959 --> 00:01:53.159 are the three big ticket items for homicide. But people 34 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:56.120 are strange. They will kill for the most obscure and 35 00:01:56.239 --> 00:02:00.319 ridiculous of reasons. In thirty years covering murder, Brad Hunter 36 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:04.079 has discovered each one has its own flavor. Cops and 37 00:02:04.159 --> 00:02:07.079 friends can be stunned by the evil lurking within a 38 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.719 seemingly ordinary man or woman. In this collection of some 39 00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:13.879 of the most memorable cases Brad has reported on, there 40 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:18.240 are serial killers, rich kid monsters, football stars, and wives 41 00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:21.879 in pursuit of hormone charge hijinks, the very rich and 42 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:26.800 the very poor. Successful lawyers and hotel executives, Southern bells 43 00:02:26.800 --> 00:02:29.120 who could melt butter with a come hither wink and 44 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:33.719 a sexy drawl, daddy's girls with gleaming smiles, good marks, 45 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:37.159 and possessed by the devil. These are stories of American 46 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.240 crimes and they stretch from coast to coast. You will 47 00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:43.639 find cheating husbands and wives so desperate for love that 48 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.400 they'll kill for it. When the mob kills, it's never personal, 49 00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:51.840 it's strictly business. With the murderers. In Cold Blooded Murder, 50 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.199 it's always personal. The book that we're featuring this evening 51 00:02:55.319 --> 00:02:59.840 is Cold Blooded Murder, Shocking true stories of killers and psychopaths, 52 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:04.080 with my special guest journalist and author Brad Hunter. Welcome 53 00:03:04.120 --> 00:03:06.240 back to the program and thank you for this interview. 54 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:06.919 Brad Hunter. 55 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:08.919 Great to be here, Dan, how are you today? 56 00:03:09.080 --> 00:03:09.400 Fine? 57 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:11.599 Thank you, Thank you so much for joining me and 58 00:03:11.800 --> 00:03:16.080 our audience with this Cold Blooded Murder. Let's start off 59 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:20.639 with just a brief outline of the stories that are 60 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:24.159 in this book, starting with Arsenic in the Bowling Alley. 61 00:03:24.439 --> 00:03:28.680 But before I start, just give us the criteria that 62 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:31.879 you used to this collection of twenty five stories. 63 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:35.080 I was looking for stories I'd done over the years 64 00:03:35.120 --> 00:03:39.199 that were more memorable, that had more of a dramatic 65 00:03:39.560 --> 00:03:42.560 arc to them than two guys shooting and in a 66 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:45.479 parking lot at three o'clock in the murning. A lot 67 00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:50.199 of these are tangled tales of love, gonna rye, sex 68 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:54.199 and money are frequently players and them bad kids. It's 69 00:03:54.240 --> 00:03:57.599 almost like, sort of like an element of watching forensic 70 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.520 files where you can tell within five minutes whether it's 71 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:04.879 the father, the mother, the son, or the daughter. 72 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.680 Or some combination thereof. But yeah, those are the ones 73 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:11.000 I looked for, and I looked for. 74 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.240 Another element I looked at, too, is geography in place. 75 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:20.040 But I like doing stories that have strong sense of place, 76 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:23.560 what's going on, whether it's a rust belt town in 77 00:04:23.600 --> 00:04:27.639 the Midwest in the late nineteen seventies or early nineteen eighties, 78 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:32.959 or Los Angeles at any time, or small towns in Texas, 79 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:35.480 that sort of thing. Those are some of the criteria. 80 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:38.079 Those are the ones that kind of jump out at me. 81 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:39.680 I mean when I was on the road of the 82 00:04:39.720 --> 00:04:42.040 New York Post, I mean they used to send me 83 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:45.319 to do the flyover stories as it were, and part 84 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:47.360 of the reason was their logic was. 85 00:04:47.240 --> 00:04:49.639 That I was from a small town myself. 86 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:52.920 Brand knows how to talk to the farmers and folks, 87 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.319 so we'll send him right rather than some guy with 88 00:04:55.360 --> 00:04:56.680 a heavy New York accent. 89 00:04:56.839 --> 00:04:58.079 So interesting. 90 00:04:58.439 --> 00:05:02.040 The other common element of this collection is the truly 91 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:06.319 horrifying crimes that are contained. Let's start with just and 92 00:05:06.319 --> 00:05:10.839 give us an outline of these stories as I mentioned them, 93 00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:14.759 and then we'll go more in depth to particular stories 94 00:05:14.800 --> 00:05:19.319 that warrant even more exploration. Let's talk about Arsenic in 95 00:05:19.399 --> 00:05:21.759 the Bowling Alley November two thousand. 96 00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:25.560 Arsenic in the Bowling Alley concerns the matter of Ann 97 00:05:25.759 --> 00:05:29.600 and Eric Miller, who were a high flying couple in 98 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:33.040 rally Durham, North Carolina, r a big part of the 99 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.639 high tech scene there. She was working for a computer 100 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:42.800 company and he was a pediatric AIDS researcher. She decided 101 00:05:43.079 --> 00:05:47.879 to play outside the marriage, and he slowly got sicker 102 00:05:48.040 --> 00:05:52.399 and sicker and sicker, and until finally whenn ambulance came 103 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:55.040 and got him at the Bowling Alley on his last night, 104 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:58.319 and he died. It was later determined that he'd been 105 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:04.639 slowly poisoned with arsenic and that was so Anne could 106 00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:08.439 go be with another fellow, Eric Miller's best friend, and 107 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:11.720 then he was her accomplice, and he proceeded to go 108 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:14.800 into a garage and shoot himself in the head two 109 00:06:14.879 --> 00:06:18.959 days two days after Eric died. He is now a 110 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.519 guest of the State of North Carolina. 111 00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:23.399 For ever interesting. 112 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:27.399 Your next story is Angel Faced Monster and this is 113 00:06:27.439 --> 00:06:30.800 in a place called Alba, Texas. And this is March 114 00:06:30.839 --> 00:06:33.360 two thousand and eight. In the Kathy family. 115 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:34.759 Yeah, this one. 116 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:36.800 You have what you have, and I mean some of 117 00:06:36.839 --> 00:06:40.959 the rebel without a cause element. It's the Kafes were 118 00:06:41.079 --> 00:06:47.279 very religious people and whatnot, and their daughter Aaron wasn't 119 00:06:47.319 --> 00:06:51.360 particularly keen on that and wanted more independence and like 120 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:53.680 a lot of teens, wanted to do what she wanted 121 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:56.759 to do. And standing in the way were her religious 122 00:06:56.800 --> 00:07:00.399 parents who didn't like her boyfriend and didn't like much 123 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:02.959 about the scene she was in. She was cute and 124 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:07.759 everything like that. And on the night that the family 125 00:07:08.439 --> 00:07:14.920 was murdered, except for Terry Caffey, her father, who miraculously survived, 126 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:17.920 she you know, they found her in a trailer, in 127 00:07:17.959 --> 00:07:21.920 a dingy trailer. Her boyfriends. She was you know, quivering 128 00:07:22.079 --> 00:07:25.759 and what happened. But she was naked in bed. So 129 00:07:26.040 --> 00:07:31.120 but as it unfolded, she had orchestrated this sinister plot 130 00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.439 to murder her family, get the money, but more importantly, 131 00:07:34.560 --> 00:07:39.399 to get from under that religious yoke and whatnot. Now 132 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:43.800 she was at her folk. Conspirators were found guilty. Her 133 00:07:43.839 --> 00:07:46.680 father has said in the last number of years that 134 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:48.879 he forgives her for address. 135 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:52.560 It's very interesting you you write that he became an 136 00:07:52.680 --> 00:07:56.839 ordained minister and this idea forgiving his daughter. He went 137 00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:59.920 to visit her twice a week and they just avoided 138 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:04.639 the entire murderous subject when he was visiting it. 139 00:08:04.839 --> 00:08:07.519 Yeah, and that's kind of the bizarre thing that there 140 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:10.680 might be an elephant in the room sort of thing. 141 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:14.360 But people take comfort and religion and sort of I 142 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:18.120 guess difficulty with that level of faith. 143 00:08:18.240 --> 00:08:20.920 That you know, you can let a lot. 144 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:23.360 Of elephants be in the room and not really say 145 00:08:23.399 --> 00:08:26.120 too much. And that's that's what happened there. I mean, 146 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:30.160 only her age saved her from the death penalty. 147 00:08:30.759 --> 00:08:32.600 And believe it or not, I know it seems like 148 00:08:32.639 --> 00:08:34.039 they give it like candy. 149 00:08:34.159 --> 00:08:34.519 It does. 150 00:08:35.320 --> 00:08:38.159 But that sort of thing you would probably die for that. 151 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.279 Interestingly too, he was shot eleven times, and as you 152 00:08:43.360 --> 00:08:46.240 write and you describe, there are times when they just 153 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:49.080 make sure he's dead, or they believe they're making sure 154 00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:51.240 he's dead, shooting him in the back and shooting him 155 00:08:51.240 --> 00:08:55.159 at numerous times. And yet he drags himself three hundred 156 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:58.240 yards to a neighbor's home and is able to survive, 157 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:01.360 and then of course give the police this tip that 158 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:04.200 they probably would have got around to soon enough. But 159 00:09:04.480 --> 00:09:08.720 immediately they were right at this Charlie Wilkinson's trailer, and 160 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.000 as you say, they searched the trailer and lo and 161 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:15.759 behold they found a naked family member and she pretended 162 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.440 that she how well, what am I doing here? And 163 00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:22.399 so it was a fascinating story of survival. And like 164 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:25.559 I say, it's rare people talk about this forgiveness, but 165 00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.159 the father going to visit the daughter twice a week 166 00:09:29.519 --> 00:09:32.639 and not talking about the subject this extraordinary count. 167 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:36.720 They were hard core religious people and it was that 168 00:09:36.919 --> 00:09:41.840 religosity ran headlong into teenage hormones. 169 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:42.639 Absolutely. 170 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.679 The next story you have is the I five killer, 171 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:49.120 and you write that in October nineteen eighty, this horror show, 172 00:09:49.159 --> 00:09:51.159 and that truly is an understatement. 173 00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:51.759 Began. 174 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:55.879 This first victim was Cherry Ares, and she's a twenty 175 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.320 nine year old X ray technician and she had earlier 176 00:09:59.440 --> 00:10:03.759 ran into her ex classmate, Randy Woodfield. You write by 177 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:08.759 sundown she was dead. But in October ninth they found 178 00:10:08.840 --> 00:10:12.519 in an apartment they found other victims as well. And 179 00:10:12.559 --> 00:10:17.200 this Woodfield character, you right, Randy Woodfield, You right about 180 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.080 his background? Who is this Randy Woodfield? And tell us 181 00:10:21.080 --> 00:10:23.399 more about his this murderous rampage. 182 00:10:23.960 --> 00:10:28.279 Sure, Randy Woodfield was grew up in Oregon, but he 183 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.159 was a good football player. He played high school football 184 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.080 and then he got drafted by Oregon State and at 185 00:10:35.159 --> 00:10:38.600 least several of the coaches thought that he could make 186 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:41.600 it in the NFL. He had the size and the 187 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:46.240 ability to get the job done. So, but his problem 188 00:10:46.279 --> 00:10:50.639 in high school that there's some flashing incidents in high 189 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:56.240 school and there are more incidents in college, including a 190 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:01.720 rape beef. But he manages with help of football people, 191 00:11:01.799 --> 00:11:05.159 to slither out of it. He goes east. He does 192 00:11:05.240 --> 00:11:08.720 get drafted by the Green Bay Packers and whatnot, and 193 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:13.679 they had in their minor league team not far ways 194 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.960 away in wiscon in Wisconsin, and he what happened there 195 00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:20.279 was he had his problem with flashing again. And there's 196 00:11:20.360 --> 00:11:24.480 like numerous incidents of flashing. Now you can only cover 197 00:11:24.639 --> 00:11:27.480 up that sort of nonsense so many times. And that's 198 00:11:27.639 --> 00:11:30.559 and then the packers hung him out to dry and 199 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:36.240 he traveled tail betwixt legs back to the West coast where. 200 00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:39.200 He kicked off his killing spree there. 201 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:42.360 Now they asked to me, he was only convicted of 202 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:46.320 one murder, and they suspect these good for probably about 203 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:49.720 forty homicides right up and down the I five. The five. 204 00:11:49.799 --> 00:11:52.559 The I five runs from Canadian border. 205 00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:56.919 To Mexico, and that's the northwest. That was also noting 206 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:01.159 the hunting grounds of Ted Bundy and the Green River Killer. 207 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:05.240 It's a lot of remote areas and whatnot spectatullar scenery, 208 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:09.840 but a lot of remote areas and perfect for somebody 209 00:12:09.919 --> 00:12:10.919 who wants to kill. 210 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:13.840 There was numerous victims that were racked up in this 211 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:20.840 murderous rampage, and the crimes were horrific, sodomizing children and. 212 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:23.679 Raping and murdering in brutal manner. 213 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:26.639 The question you say is that and the question they 214 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:29.039 had at that time is what they thought was such 215 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.159 a seemingly normal person. What could tournament to such a 216 00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:33.000 savage killer. 217 00:12:33.120 --> 00:12:36.679 Well, you always look at the upbringing, and his brother 218 00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:40.600 avoided him, and they were on the same football teams 219 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:45.039 in high school and college, and his brother wanted nothing 220 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:49.120 to do with him. And there's no scientific explanation for it. 221 00:12:49.200 --> 00:12:52.399 But it's sort of the bad seed argument, you know 222 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:54.360 what I mean, He's just a bad guy. 223 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.440 The tally that you write, though is final count is 224 00:12:59.039 --> 00:13:02.960 twenty five and about one hundred and forty other crimes, 225 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.480 including robbery and sodomy and various crimes related to assault 226 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:11.080 in this nineteen eighty one trial here. Now, the next 227 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:14.919 story you have is the vile mister Winger and his 228 00:13:14.960 --> 00:13:18.320 wife Deborah Winger tell us about this vile mister Winger 229 00:13:18.360 --> 00:13:21.799 in this diabolical plot that he almost pulls off. 230 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:26.279 Well Mark Winger, he's in the Midwest. He what he 231 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:29.080 wants to do is he, like a lot of these 232 00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:31.799 guys and were women, wants to start a new wants 233 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:32.759 to start fresh. 234 00:13:32.960 --> 00:13:36.240 So he decides he's going to kill his wife. 235 00:13:36.559 --> 00:13:39.759 But he sets it up with this guy who drives 236 00:13:39.759 --> 00:13:43.759 her from the airport in the Springfield in Missouri, home 237 00:13:44.279 --> 00:13:48.840 that the guy calls and he comes over and he 238 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.440 basically frames this guy. He kills him, he kills his wife, 239 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:55.320 and then he kills this guy and he frames the 240 00:13:55.399 --> 00:13:58.480 dead man for murder and took police quite a while 241 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:02.000 to sort it out and some of the other details 242 00:14:02.039 --> 00:14:05.279 emerging that he's pretty horrific individual. 243 00:14:05.440 --> 00:14:08.679 Yeah, and this is all thanks to there's a skeptical cop, 244 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:11.679 but he has a partner that has a hunch on this, 245 00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:15.840 and so the skeptical is senior partner doesn't think much 246 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:18.279 of it, but keeps it in his mind, and sure 247 00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:22.200 enough he listens to him eventually, and so they because 248 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.919 he would have likely gotten away with this without a 249 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:28.399 little bit of that a dedicated cop looking at this 250 00:14:28.480 --> 00:14:32.200 a little bit differently, Let's talk about the next story, 251 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:34.080 which is Orgy of Death. 252 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.200 And I mentioned in the beforehand when. 253 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:39.039 We spoke that this is something I like to discuss 254 00:14:39.080 --> 00:14:42.600 because this is such a unique case. I'd never heard 255 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.080 of it obviously, but it just has some very very 256 00:14:45.159 --> 00:14:49.320 unique and horrifying elements. Let's talk about Orgy of Death. 257 00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.080 Sure, this is kind of sort of back to tim 258 00:14:53.159 --> 00:14:53.720 in place. 259 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:58.200 It's the late nineteen seventies in a place called Holland, Michigan, 260 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.320 which is on the shores of the Lake Michigan. And 261 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:04.759 it's a story book town that even the creator of 262 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.200 Wizard the Wizard of Oz l Frank Baum with summer 263 00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:11.840 in sort of thing, but at this time there was 264 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:14.960 It's also known for its huge pickle pact. But at 265 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.919 this time the local paint company was on strike and 266 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:23.200 they brought in scabs and security to keep the paint 267 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:26.559 flowing as it were, into this mix. Now, a lot 268 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:26.919 of them. 269 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.120 Were kept at stay at this place called. 270 00:15:29.919 --> 00:15:34.720 The Blue Mill Hotel, and that's where this woman named 271 00:15:34.879 --> 00:15:38.559 Janet Chandler. She was I think twenty at the time. 272 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:42.519 She was a church girl in the choir. Shy didn't 273 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:45.480 say too much, but what all these guys, these people 274 00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:51.000 brought in to the Blue Mill was drugs, boozing, loads 275 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:55.360 of sex, lots of partying all the time. And effectively 276 00:15:55.480 --> 00:15:59.799 Janet Chandler was was leading a double life on one 277 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.879 and mom and dad sire as the church going Janet 278 00:16:02.919 --> 00:16:06.200 and whatnot. And at the hotel she was going wild 279 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:10.840 and including I mean she greeted one of the security 280 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:15.519 guards at the hotel in the lobby wearing nothing but 281 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:19.840 a cowboy hat and cowboy boots, so that was quite 282 00:16:19.879 --> 00:16:23.759 a change from a religious Janet. But in that fire 283 00:16:23.919 --> 00:16:28.320 ball sort of environment, there was a lot of women 284 00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:31.279 and men, and a lot of them having sex with 285 00:16:31.360 --> 00:16:36.720 each other. Inevitably there would be some jealous aspects of 286 00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:39.679 as to what was going on. And one of the women, 287 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:43.519 her roommate, in fact, a woman named Laurie Swink, decided 288 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:47.360 that Janet Chandler had to be taught a lessons so 289 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:50.279 she wasn't there, and there was five hundred bucks missing 290 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:52.879 from the till cops think that it might have been 291 00:16:52.919 --> 00:16:56.679 a robbery gone awry and been grabbed on the night 292 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:00.240 in question. Well, instead, she'd been taken to a home 293 00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:05.319 and she had been gang raped multiple times, and people 294 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:09.559 were partying as she lay dying. But they found her 295 00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:13.039 body quite a bit later, and she had been strangled. 296 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.880 To death at rape. 297 00:17:14.400 --> 00:17:17.960 But there was a wall of silence over what had happened. 298 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.599 In fact, the wall of silence remained in place for 299 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.279 twenty five years until some student filmmakers did a movie 300 00:17:27.319 --> 00:17:30.440 about it, did a documentary about it, and that kind 301 00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:32.640 of was a bit of a kick in the ass 302 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:36.599 for local cops, and then they began looking at it again, 303 00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:39.720 and they started getting They started with her, and they 304 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.720 started getting the picture of what happened, and they discovered 305 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:47.039 that she was living a double life. And they had 306 00:17:47.079 --> 00:17:50.759 determined that there were people that were there at the. 307 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:51.839 Time she was murdered. 308 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:56.799 And many years later they rested six and they arrested 309 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:01.480 it was twenty four present at this Yang rape men 310 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.920 and women, and some of them are dead now and 311 00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:07.079 some of them are still in prison. Laurie Swank was 312 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.920 released from prison. But yeah, I fairly sorted the story 313 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:13.200 quite tragedy. 314 00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.720 It's a horrifying description that you do in the book 315 00:18:17.119 --> 00:18:20.400 with these people present partying. You say that when she 316 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:24.160 was actually tortured to death, or while she was being tortured, 317 00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:27.960 there was applause. This Laurie was really upset that this 318 00:18:28.359 --> 00:18:32.319 Janet had sex with this Arthur Carl Peva. But this 319 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.079 the betrayal of her friend, this older man named Lynch 320 00:18:36.200 --> 00:18:39.519 that she had dated, helped crack this case as well 321 00:18:39.559 --> 00:18:43.200 in terms of the information that was provided. The horrifying 322 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.400 information that he said he saw her after she had 323 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:48.680 been raped, looked like she had been drugged with a 324 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.640 belt around her neck already, and then later she was 325 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.640 finally killed. And again with this, all these people complicit 326 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.440 and nobody said anything, and it took that many years, 327 00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.839 thirty years to solve this extraordinary case. 328 00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.720 Well, Lynch was Lynch was a wreck by the you know, 329 00:19:05.799 --> 00:19:08.359 by that time, and he had he had lived with 330 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:14.400 the guilt of this for decades, and over time he eventually, 331 00:19:14.440 --> 00:19:16.759 you know, he came to trust the detectives involved in 332 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.000 and from the Michigan State Police and told them the 333 00:19:20.039 --> 00:19:23.759 whole story of that terrible night. Now, I mean, I 334 00:19:23.799 --> 00:19:26.720 think probably he got a load off of his conscience, 335 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:28.960 but I mean he ended up dying I think of 336 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:33.480 alcohol induced dementia. So it wasn't a pretty end for them, 337 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:36.359 and it doesn't it doesn't sound like there was a 338 00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:39.519 happy ending for anyone involved in that tragedy. 339 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:40.240 Absolutely not. 340 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.480 Your next story is called Daddy's Girl, and this is 341 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:46.720 in San Diego, in a community called Rolando. There's a 342 00:19:46.799 --> 00:19:49.839 nine to one to one call my stepdad's been shot, 343 00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:52.960 and again kind of alluded to it some of these stories. 344 00:19:53.039 --> 00:19:56.119 You it's like a forensic files in that Oh yeah, 345 00:19:56.319 --> 00:19:58.359 pretty well, have a grasp of what's going to go 346 00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:01.559 on with this story. So this this is called daddy's girl. 347 00:20:01.759 --> 00:20:04.880 Just tell us what happens in this almost obvious tale. 348 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.240 From the beginning, Well. 349 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.200 Tim McNeil was a very successful lawyer in San Diego, 350 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:13.599 and he had married a woman. She had she had 351 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:18.680 two children, and he had essentially adopted his children. I mean, 352 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:23.119 he was when the mother had mental issues, and when 353 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:27.039 they divorced, the children stayed with him and it was 354 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:34.759 unrelentingly kind to them. But and his daughter bray Anson 355 00:20:35.119 --> 00:20:38.759 adored him. But what happened was is that, you know, 356 00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.279 she said that her father had been an intruder and 357 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.720 her father was shot and then you know, I mean 358 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:48.519 it didn't take long. I mean, her own family, his brother, 359 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:54.440 they noticed that there were inconsistencies in her story, right, 360 00:20:54.759 --> 00:21:00.160 and she was taking a glib approach to the death. Well, 361 00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.039 and to make I guess a long story short, she 362 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:08.599 had recruited her brother to come from Arizona to help 363 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:13.240 Kim kill Timothy McNeil. Now, but what happens is this 364 00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:15.640 goes back and forth and none of it makes would 365 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:18.920 later make any sense. What kind of drove this death 366 00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:23.799 plot was that Timothy McNeil had started seeing someone new 367 00:21:24.079 --> 00:21:28.359 and spending more time with her, and maybe canceling lunches 368 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:31.920 with bray and whatnot to make time for this woman 369 00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:34.720 he had begun seeing now she didn't like that, and 370 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:39.319 apparently that was her motivation for murder. It wasn't money 371 00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:43.359 or anything like that. It was the whole thing was revenge. 372 00:21:43.799 --> 00:21:46.960 And so they murdered him and they both ended up 373 00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:48.640 very long prison terms. 374 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:49.319 Absolutely. 375 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:52.920 You have another story called homicide in the Heartland. This 376 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:56.839 occurs May two thousand and nine. Another nine one one call, 377 00:21:56.960 --> 00:21:59.880 Please send a car to check on this man's wife. 378 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:02.519 And when they come to police come to this home. 379 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:08.039 Very very interesting. There is a message written in paint. 380 00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:11.480 It says I am always watching. And so the Sherry 381 00:22:11.519 --> 00:22:16.319 Coleman is dead, her son Garrett eleven years old is dead, 382 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:20.359 and Gavin nine and so there's these expleted on the 383 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.640 sheets even and so they both of these people. Interestingly, 384 00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:28.799 Chris and Sherry both worked for the Joyce Myers ministries. 385 00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:32.440 And was interesting too is the video footage didn't show 386 00:22:32.480 --> 00:22:34.680 anybody coming in and out of this house, so one 387 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:38.079 of those were no forced entry. But the video footage 388 00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:41.279 doesn't reveal who might have been the perpetrator of this. 389 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.880 So that's what they are starting off. With and it 390 00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:47.599 ends up where you have this person Chris, he ends 391 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.200 up with visible scratches on his face like there was 392 00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:54.240 some altercation. And also he had some excuse. He put 393 00:22:54.279 --> 00:22:57.920 out that he had been receiving threats for weeks prior 394 00:22:57.960 --> 00:23:01.200 to this murder, and of course that was traced right 395 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:03.400 back to his own hand, right. 396 00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:04.559 Back to his own hands. 397 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:07.759 But yeah, I mean, yeah, Chris Coleman was a piece 398 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:08.279 of work. 399 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:11.000 And it was interesting again in some of these fair 400 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:14.079 number of these stories from the United States that very 401 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.960