Speaker 1: Hello, it is Ryan and I was on a flight
Speaker 1: the other day playing one of my favorite social spin
Speaker 1: slot games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over at
Speaker 1: the person sitting next to me, and you know what
Speaker 1: they were doing. They were also playing Chumba Casino. Coincidence,
Speaker 1: I think not everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa
Speaker 1: Casino's home to hundreds at casino style games you can
Speaker 1: play for free anytime anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet.
Speaker 1: So sign up now at Chumbuckcasino dot com to claim
Speaker 1: you're free. Welcome bonus, that's Chumbu Casino dot com and
Speaker 1: live the Chumba Lane.
Speaker 2: No pursinesses, every d void where, every by lost in
Speaker 2: terms conditions of eating.
Speaker 1: Plus, Hello, it is Ryan, and we could all use
Speaker 1: an extra bright spot in our day, couldn't we? Just
Speaker 1: to make up for things like sitting in traffic, doing
Speaker 1: the dishes, counting or steps, you know, all the mundane stuff.
Speaker 1: That is why I'm such a big fan of Chumba Casino.
Speaker 1: Chumbuck Casino has all your favorite social casino style games
Speaker 1: you can play for free anytime anywhere, with daily bonuses
Speaker 1: that ship brighten your day. Low actually a lot, So
Speaker 1: sign up now at Chumbuck Casino dot com. That's Chumbu
Speaker 1: Casino dot com. No personesses every d void over every
Speaker 1: by Lost Eaters Conditions eighteen plus.
Speaker 3: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 3: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 3: written about them Geese, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK every
Speaker 3: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 3: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 3: host journalist and author Dan Zupanski, Good Evening.
Speaker 4: Murder is the most vile crime known to man. It
Speaker 4: can be triggered by love, or money, or sex. Those
Speaker 4: are the three big ticket items for homicide. But people
Speaker 4: are strange. They will kill for the most obscure and
Speaker 4: ridiculous of reasons. In thirty years covering murder, Brad Hunter
Speaker 4: has discovered each one has its own flavor. Cops and
Speaker 4: friends can be stunned by the evil lurking within a
Speaker 4: seemingly ordinary man or woman. In this collection of some
Speaker 4: of the most memorable cases Brad has reported on, there
Speaker 4: are serial killers, rich kid monsters, football stars, and wives
Speaker 4: in pursuit of hormone charge hijinks, the very rich and
Speaker 4: the very poor. Successful lawyers and hotel executives, Southern bells
Speaker 4: who could melt butter with a come hither wink and
Speaker 4: a sexy drawl, daddy's girls with gleaming smiles, good marks,
Speaker 4: and possessed by the devil. These are stories of American
Speaker 4: crimes and they stretch from coast to coast. You will
Speaker 4: find cheating husbands and wives so desperate for love that
Speaker 4: they'll kill for it. When the mob kills, it's never personal,
Speaker 4: it's strictly business. With the murderers. In Cold Blooded Murder,
Speaker 4: it's always personal. The book that we're featuring this evening
Speaker 4: is Cold Blooded Murder, Shocking true stories of killers and psychopaths,
Speaker 4: with my special guest journalist and author Brad Hunter. Welcome
Speaker 4: back to the program and thank you for this interview.
Speaker 4: Brad Hunter.
Speaker 2: Great to be here, Dan, how are you today?
Speaker 5: Fine?
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so much for joining me and
Speaker 4: our audience with this Cold Blooded Murder. Let's start off
Speaker 4: with just a brief outline of the stories that are
Speaker 4: in this book, starting with Arsenic in the Bowling Alley.
Speaker 4: But before I start, just give us the criteria that
Speaker 4: you used to this collection of twenty five stories.
Speaker 2: I was looking for stories I'd done over the years
Speaker 2: that were more memorable, that had more of a dramatic
Speaker 2: arc to them than two guys shooting and in a
Speaker 2: parking lot at three o'clock in the murning. A lot
Speaker 2: of these are tangled tales of love, gonna rye, sex
Speaker 2: and money are frequently players and them bad kids. It's
Speaker 2: almost like, sort of like an element of watching forensic
Speaker 2: files where you can tell within five minutes whether it's
Speaker 2: the father, the mother, the son, or the daughter.
Speaker 6: Or some combination thereof. But yeah, those are the ones
Speaker 6: I looked for, and I looked for.
Speaker 2: Another element I looked at, too, is geography in place.
Speaker 2: But I like doing stories that have strong sense of place,
Speaker 2: what's going on, whether it's a rust belt town in
Speaker 2: the Midwest in the late nineteen seventies or early nineteen eighties,
Speaker 2: or Los Angeles at any time, or small towns in Texas,
Speaker 2: that sort of thing. Those are some of the criteria.
Speaker 2: Those are the ones that kind of jump out at me.
Speaker 2: I mean when I was on the road of the
Speaker 2: New York Post, I mean they used to send me
Speaker 2: to do the flyover stories as it were, and part
Speaker 2: of the reason was their logic was.
Speaker 6: That I was from a small town myself.
Speaker 2: Brand knows how to talk to the farmers and folks,
Speaker 2: so we'll send him right rather than some guy with
Speaker 2: a heavy New York accent.
Speaker 5: So interesting.
Speaker 4: The other common element of this collection is the truly
Speaker 4: horrifying crimes that are contained. Let's start with just and
Speaker 4: give us an outline of these stories as I mentioned them,
Speaker 4: and then we'll go more in depth to particular stories
Speaker 4: that warrant even more exploration. Let's talk about Arsenic in
Speaker 4: the Bowling Alley November two thousand.
Speaker 2: Arsenic in the Bowling Alley concerns the matter of Ann
Speaker 2: and Eric Miller, who were a high flying couple in
Speaker 2: rally Durham, North Carolina, r a big part of the
Speaker 2: high tech scene there. She was working for a computer
Speaker 2: company and he was a pediatric AIDS researcher. She decided
Speaker 2: to play outside the marriage, and he slowly got sicker
Speaker 2: and sicker and sicker, and until finally whenn ambulance came
Speaker 2: and got him at the Bowling Alley on his last night,
Speaker 2: and he died. It was later determined that he'd been
Speaker 2: slowly poisoned with arsenic and that was so Anne could
Speaker 2: go be with another fellow, Eric Miller's best friend, and
Speaker 2: then he was her accomplice, and he proceeded to go
Speaker 2: into a garage and shoot himself in the head two
Speaker 2: days two days after Eric died. He is now a
Speaker 2: guest of the State of North Carolina.
Speaker 5: For ever interesting.
Speaker 4: Your next story is Angel Faced Monster and this is
Speaker 4: in a place called Alba, Texas. And this is March
Speaker 4: two thousand and eight. In the Kathy family.
Speaker 6: Yeah, this one.
Speaker 2: You have what you have, and I mean some of
Speaker 2: the rebel without a cause element. It's the Kafes were
Speaker 2: very religious people and whatnot, and their daughter Aaron wasn't
Speaker 2: particularly keen on that and wanted more independence and like
Speaker 2: a lot of teens, wanted to do what she wanted
Speaker 2: to do. And standing in the way were her religious
Speaker 2: parents who didn't like her boyfriend and didn't like much
Speaker 2: about the scene she was in. She was cute and
Speaker 2: everything like that. And on the night that the family
Speaker 2: was murdered, except for Terry Caffey, her father, who miraculously survived,
Speaker 2: she you know, they found her in a trailer, in
Speaker 2: a dingy trailer. Her boyfriends. She was you know, quivering
Speaker 2: and what happened. But she was naked in bed. So
Speaker 2: but as it unfolded, she had orchestrated this sinister plot
Speaker 2: to murder her family, get the money, but more importantly,
Speaker 2: to get from under that religious yoke and whatnot. Now
Speaker 2: she was at her folk. Conspirators were found guilty. Her
Speaker 2: father has said in the last number of years that
Speaker 2: he forgives her for address.
Speaker 4: It's very interesting you you write that he became an
Speaker 4: ordained minister and this idea forgiving his daughter. He went
Speaker 4: to visit her twice a week and they just avoided
Speaker 4: the entire murderous subject when he was visiting it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's kind of the bizarre thing that there
Speaker 2: might be an elephant in the room sort of thing.
Speaker 2: But people take comfort and religion and sort of I
Speaker 2: guess difficulty with that level of faith.
Speaker 6: That you know, you can let a lot.
Speaker 2: Of elephants be in the room and not really say
Speaker 2: too much. And that's that's what happened there. I mean,
Speaker 2: only her age saved her from the death penalty.
Speaker 6: And believe it or not, I know it seems like
Speaker 6: they give it like candy.
Speaker 5: It does.
Speaker 2: But that sort of thing you would probably die for that.
Speaker 4: Interestingly too, he was shot eleven times, and as you
Speaker 4: write and you describe, there are times when they just
Speaker 4: make sure he's dead, or they believe they're making sure
Speaker 4: he's dead, shooting him in the back and shooting him
Speaker 4: at numerous times. And yet he drags himself three hundred
Speaker 4: yards to a neighbor's home and is able to survive,
Speaker 4: and then of course give the police this tip that
Speaker 4: they probably would have got around to soon enough. But
Speaker 4: immediately they were right at this Charlie Wilkinson's trailer, and
Speaker 4: as you say, they searched the trailer and lo and
Speaker 4: behold they found a naked family member and she pretended
Speaker 4: that she how well, what am I doing here? And
Speaker 4: so it was a fascinating story of survival. And like
Speaker 4: I say, it's rare people talk about this forgiveness, but
Speaker 4: the father going to visit the daughter twice a week
Speaker 4: and not talking about the subject this extraordinary count.
Speaker 2: They were hard core religious people and it was that
Speaker 2: religosity ran headlong into teenage hormones.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: The next story you have is the I five killer,
Speaker 4: and you write that in October nineteen eighty, this horror show,
Speaker 4: and that truly is an understatement.
Speaker 5: Began.
Speaker 4: This first victim was Cherry Ares, and she's a twenty
Speaker 4: nine year old X ray technician and she had earlier
Speaker 4: ran into her ex classmate, Randy Woodfield. You write by
Speaker 4: sundown she was dead. But in October ninth they found
Speaker 4: in an apartment they found other victims as well. And
Speaker 4: this Woodfield character, you right, Randy Woodfield, You right about
Speaker 4: his background? Who is this Randy Woodfield? And tell us
Speaker 4: more about his this murderous rampage.
Speaker 2: Sure, Randy Woodfield was grew up in Oregon, but he
Speaker 2: was a good football player. He played high school football
Speaker 2: and then he got drafted by Oregon State and at
Speaker 2: least several of the coaches thought that he could make
Speaker 2: it in the NFL. He had the size and the
Speaker 2: ability to get the job done. So, but his problem
Speaker 2: in high school that there's some flashing incidents in high
Speaker 2: school and there are more incidents in college, including a
Speaker 2: rape beef. But he manages with help of football people,
Speaker 2: to slither out of it. He goes east. He does
Speaker 2: get drafted by the Green Bay Packers and whatnot, and
Speaker 2: they had in their minor league team not far ways
Speaker 2: away in wiscon in Wisconsin, and he what happened there
Speaker 2: was he had his problem with flashing again. And there's
Speaker 2: like numerous incidents of flashing. Now you can only cover
Speaker 2: up that sort of nonsense so many times. And that's
Speaker 2: and then the packers hung him out to dry and
Speaker 2: he traveled tail betwixt legs back to the West coast where.
Speaker 6: He kicked off his killing spree there.
Speaker 2: Now they asked to me, he was only convicted of
Speaker 2: one murder, and they suspect these good for probably about
Speaker 2: forty homicides right up and down the I five. The five.
Speaker 6: The I five runs from Canadian border.
Speaker 2: To Mexico, and that's the northwest. That was also noting
Speaker 2: the hunting grounds of Ted Bundy and the Green River Killer.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of remote areas and whatnot spectatullar scenery,
Speaker 2: but a lot of remote areas and perfect for somebody
Speaker 2: who wants to kill.
Speaker 4: There was numerous victims that were racked up in this
Speaker 4: murderous rampage, and the crimes were horrific, sodomizing children and.
Speaker 5: Raping and murdering in brutal manner.
Speaker 4: The question you say is that and the question they
Speaker 4: had at that time is what they thought was such
Speaker 4: a seemingly normal person. What could tournament to such a
Speaker 4: savage killer.
Speaker 2: Well, you always look at the upbringing, and his brother
Speaker 2: avoided him, and they were on the same football teams
Speaker 2: in high school and college, and his brother wanted nothing
Speaker 2: to do with him. And there's no scientific explanation for it.
Speaker 2: But it's sort of the bad seed argument, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, He's just a bad guy.
Speaker 4: The tally that you write, though is final count is
Speaker 4: twenty five and about one hundred and forty other crimes,
Speaker 4: including robbery and sodomy and various crimes related to assault
Speaker 4: in this nineteen eighty one trial here. Now, the next
Speaker 4: story you have is the vile mister Winger and his
Speaker 4: wife Deborah Winger tell us about this vile mister Winger
Speaker 4: in this diabolical plot that he almost pulls off.
Speaker 2: Well Mark Winger, he's in the Midwest. He what he
Speaker 2: wants to do is he, like a lot of these
Speaker 2: guys and were women, wants to start a new wants
Speaker 2: to start fresh.
Speaker 6: So he decides he's going to kill his wife.
Speaker 2: But he sets it up with this guy who drives
Speaker 2: her from the airport in the Springfield in Missouri, home
Speaker 2: that the guy calls and he comes over and he
Speaker 2: basically frames this guy. He kills him, he kills his wife,
Speaker 2: and then he kills this guy and he frames the
Speaker 2: dead man for murder and took police quite a while
Speaker 2: to sort it out and some of the other details
Speaker 2: emerging that he's pretty horrific individual.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is all thanks to there's a skeptical cop,
Speaker 4: but he has a partner that has a hunch on this,
Speaker 4: and so the skeptical is senior partner doesn't think much
Speaker 4: of it, but keeps it in his mind, and sure
Speaker 4: enough he listens to him eventually, and so they because
Speaker 4: he would have likely gotten away with this without a
Speaker 4: little bit of that a dedicated cop looking at this
Speaker 4: a little bit differently, Let's talk about the next story,
Speaker 4: which is Orgy of Death.
Speaker 5: And I mentioned in the beforehand when.
Speaker 4: We spoke that this is something I like to discuss
Speaker 4: because this is such a unique case. I'd never heard
Speaker 4: of it obviously, but it just has some very very
Speaker 4: unique and horrifying elements. Let's talk about Orgy of Death.
Speaker 6: Sure, this is kind of sort of back to tim
Speaker 6: in place.
Speaker 2: It's the late nineteen seventies in a place called Holland, Michigan,
Speaker 2: which is on the shores of the Lake Michigan. And
Speaker 2: it's a story book town that even the creator of
Speaker 2: Wizard the Wizard of Oz l Frank Baum with summer
Speaker 2: in sort of thing, but at this time there was
Speaker 2: It's also known for its huge pickle pact. But at
Speaker 2: this time the local paint company was on strike and
Speaker 2: they brought in scabs and security to keep the paint
Speaker 2: flowing as it were, into this mix. Now, a lot
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 6: Were kept at stay at this place called.
Speaker 2: The Blue Mill Hotel, and that's where this woman named
Speaker 2: Janet Chandler. She was I think twenty at the time.
Speaker 2: She was a church girl in the choir. Shy didn't
Speaker 2: say too much, but what all these guys, these people
Speaker 2: brought in to the Blue Mill was drugs, boozing, loads
Speaker 2: of sex, lots of partying all the time. And effectively
Speaker 2: Janet Chandler was was leading a double life on one
Speaker 2: and mom and dad sire as the church going Janet
Speaker 2: and whatnot. And at the hotel she was going wild
Speaker 2: and including I mean she greeted one of the security
Speaker 2: guards at the hotel in the lobby wearing nothing but
Speaker 2: a cowboy hat and cowboy boots, so that was quite
Speaker 2: a change from a religious Janet. But in that fire
Speaker 2: ball sort of environment, there was a lot of women
Speaker 2: and men, and a lot of them having sex with
Speaker 2: each other. Inevitably there would be some jealous aspects of
Speaker 2: as to what was going on. And one of the women,
Speaker 2: her roommate, in fact, a woman named Laurie Swink, decided
Speaker 2: that Janet Chandler had to be taught a lessons so
Speaker 2: she wasn't there, and there was five hundred bucks missing
Speaker 2: from the till cops think that it might have been
Speaker 2: a robbery gone awry and been grabbed on the night
Speaker 2: in question. Well, instead, she'd been taken to a home
Speaker 2: and she had been gang raped multiple times, and people
Speaker 2: were partying as she lay dying. But they found her
Speaker 2: body quite a bit later, and she had been strangled.
Speaker 6: To death at rape.
Speaker 2: But there was a wall of silence over what had happened.
Speaker 2: In fact, the wall of silence remained in place for
Speaker 2: twenty five years until some student filmmakers did a movie
Speaker 2: about it, did a documentary about it, and that kind
Speaker 2: of was a bit of a kick in the ass
Speaker 2: for local cops, and then they began looking at it again,
Speaker 2: and they started getting They started with her, and they
Speaker 2: started getting the picture of what happened, and they discovered
Speaker 2: that she was living a double life. And they had
Speaker 2: determined that there were people that were there at the.
Speaker 6: Time she was murdered.
Speaker 2: And many years later they rested six and they arrested
Speaker 2: it was twenty four present at this Yang rape men
Speaker 2: and women, and some of them are dead now and
Speaker 2: some of them are still in prison. Laurie Swank was
Speaker 2: released from prison. But yeah, I fairly sorted the story
Speaker 2: quite tragedy.
Speaker 4: It's a horrifying description that you do in the book
Speaker 4: with these people present partying. You say that when she
Speaker 4: was actually tortured to death, or while she was being tortured,
Speaker 4: there was applause. This Laurie was really upset that this
Speaker 4: Janet had sex with this Arthur Carl Peva. But this
Speaker 4: the betrayal of her friend, this older man named Lynch
Speaker 4: that she had dated, helped crack this case as well
Speaker 4: in terms of the information that was provided. The horrifying
Speaker 4: information that he said he saw her after she had
Speaker 4: been raped, looked like she had been drugged with a
Speaker 4: belt around her neck already, and then later she was
Speaker 4: finally killed. And again with this, all these people complicit
Speaker 4: and nobody said anything, and it took that many years,
Speaker 4: thirty years to solve this extraordinary case.
Speaker 2: Well, Lynch was Lynch was a wreck by the you know,
Speaker 2: by that time, and he had he had lived with
Speaker 2: the guilt of this for decades, and over time he eventually,
Speaker 2: you know, he came to trust the detectives involved in
Speaker 2: and from the Michigan State Police and told them the
Speaker 2: whole story of that terrible night. Now, I mean, I
Speaker 2: think probably he got a load off of his conscience,
Speaker 2: but I mean he ended up dying I think of
Speaker 2: alcohol induced dementia. So it wasn't a pretty end for them,
Speaker 2: and it doesn't it doesn't sound like there was a
Speaker 2: happy ending for anyone involved in that tragedy.
Speaker 5: Absolutely not.
Speaker 4: Your next story is called Daddy's Girl, and this is
Speaker 4: in San Diego, in a community called Rolando. There's a
Speaker 4: nine to one to one call my stepdad's been shot,
Speaker 4: and again kind of alluded to it some of these stories.
Speaker 4: You it's like a forensic files in that Oh yeah,
Speaker 4: pretty well, have a grasp of what's going to go
Speaker 4: on with this story. So this this is called daddy's girl.
Speaker 4: Just tell us what happens in this almost obvious tale.
Speaker 4: From the beginning, Well.
Speaker 2: Tim McNeil was a very successful lawyer in San Diego,
Speaker 2: and he had married a woman. She had she had
Speaker 2: two children, and he had essentially adopted his children. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was when the mother had mental issues, and when
Speaker 2: they divorced, the children stayed with him and it was
Speaker 2: unrelentingly kind to them. But and his daughter bray Anson
Speaker 2: adored him. But what happened was is that, you know,
Speaker 2: she said that her father had been an intruder and
Speaker 2: her father was shot and then you know, I mean
Speaker 2: it didn't take long. I mean, her own family, his brother,
Speaker 2: they noticed that there were inconsistencies in her story, right,
Speaker 2: and she was taking a glib approach to the death. Well,
Speaker 2: and to make I guess a long story short, she
Speaker 2: had recruited her brother to come from Arizona to help
Speaker 2: Kim kill Timothy McNeil. Now, but what happens is this
Speaker 2: goes back and forth and none of it makes would
Speaker 2: later make any sense. What kind of drove this death
Speaker 2: plot was that Timothy McNeil had started seeing someone new
Speaker 2: and spending more time with her, and maybe canceling lunches
Speaker 2: with bray and whatnot to make time for this woman
Speaker 2: he had begun seeing now she didn't like that, and
Speaker 2: apparently that was her motivation for murder. It wasn't money
Speaker 2: or anything like that. It was the whole thing was revenge.
Speaker 2: And so they murdered him and they both ended up
Speaker 2: very long prison terms.
Speaker 5: Absolutely.
Speaker 4: You have another story called homicide in the Heartland. This
Speaker 4: occurs May two thousand and nine. Another nine one one call,
Speaker 4: Please send a car to check on this man's wife.
Speaker 4: And when they come to police come to this home.
Speaker 4: Very very interesting. There is a message written in paint.
Speaker 4: It says I am always watching. And so the Sherry
Speaker 4: Coleman is dead, her son Garrett eleven years old is dead,
Speaker 4: and Gavin nine and so there's these expleted on the
Speaker 4: sheets even and so they both of these people. Interestingly,
Speaker 4: Chris and Sherry both worked for the Joyce Myers ministries.
Speaker 4: And was interesting too is the video footage didn't show
Speaker 4: anybody coming in and out of this house, so one
Speaker 4: of those were no forced entry. But the video footage
Speaker 4: doesn't reveal who might have been the perpetrator of this.
Speaker 4: So that's what they are starting off. With and it
Speaker 4: ends up where you have this person Chris, he ends
Speaker 4: up with visible scratches on his face like there was
Speaker 4: some altercation. And also he had some excuse. He put
Speaker 4: out that he had been receiving threats for weeks prior
Speaker 4: to this murder, and of course that was traced right
Speaker 4: back to his own hand, right.
Speaker 2: Back to his own hands.
Speaker 6: But yeah, I mean, yeah, Chris Coleman was a piece
Speaker 6: of work.
Speaker 2: And it was interesting again in some of these fair
Speaker 2: number of these stories from the United States that very
Speaker 2: certain participit. You know, that religious aspect, you know, he was.
Speaker 2: He was a bit of a high flyer in that
Speaker 2: he had. What his wife didn't know is that he
Speaker 2: had a girlfriend in Florida who he would see frequently
Speaker 2: and spend all kinds of time.
Speaker 6: Speaking with on the World Wide Web.
Speaker 2: And the police got onto that. And the object his
Speaker 2: thing was is that he wanted to again, as we've
Speaker 2: said about three times, start a new life with this
Speaker 2: woman in Florida. But he got caught and is in
Speaker 2: prison in Missouri forever, with numerous appeals being torpeded.
Speaker 4: Yes, absolutely, you do keep tabs on all of this
Speaker 4: via something called PostScript, and so you talk about where
Speaker 4: these perpetrators what would be in terms of parole eligibility.
Speaker 5: And most of them had the death.
Speaker 4: Penalty spared one way or another, through plea bargaining or
Speaker 4: through moratorium on the death penalty itself. So most of
Speaker 4: them are doing some sort of likely spend the rest
Speaker 4: of their life in prison. But some, as you mentioned,
Speaker 4: have been released and will certainly be released, won't they.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean it's an interesting thing because some of these situations,
Speaker 2: I mean tough a lot of people in the world over.
Speaker 2: The American justice system is very draconian, and it can
Speaker 2: be sure, But because.
Speaker 6: Your sentence to one hundred and fifty years doesn't mean
Speaker 6: you do one hundred and fifty years.
Speaker 2: Mind you, If you're getting one hundred and fifty years,
Speaker 2: chances are that you're going to serve the lion's share
Speaker 2: of your sentence. But yeah, and they will, they will
Speaker 2: release them eventually. I mean, I don't see someone like
Speaker 2: Anne Miller getting out there. Her husband had an agonizing death.
Speaker 2: She shot him in the back of the head. It
Speaker 2: should probably be look at less time. But that's what
Speaker 2: they determine as well, right, I mean, how horrific was it?
Speaker 2: A lot of these cases pretty horrific.
Speaker 4: Yes, speaking of very horrific, you include the dating game
Speaker 4: killer in this collection, and so we won't go into
Speaker 4: that right at this time, but his murderous rampage was
Speaker 4: recorded in this book. In this you talk about you
Speaker 4: included this as well, because there's a commentary on southern
Speaker 4: California being the happy hunting grounds for homicidal meetings of
Speaker 4: all kinds and even serial killers. With the lure of
Speaker 4: California Hollywood not just for aspiring movie stars.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, California is the author James Elroy, who I
Speaker 2: interviewed many years ago and whatnot. He simply put it
Speaker 2: in to a lot of ways for people who are
Speaker 2: you know, true crime fans is James Elroy said to me,
Speaker 2: he said, people come to Los Angeles to be someone else,
Speaker 2: and when you have that little self esteem, terrible things
Speaker 2: are bound to happen.
Speaker 6: And that's that's one of the things I mean.
Speaker 2: In Los Angeles in the nineteen eighties, you know, there
Speaker 2: was the Hillside Strangler, there was the nightstock or there
Speaker 2: was the Freeway Killers. There was like any number serial
Speaker 2: killers happening all at the same time. And if you
Speaker 2: know Los Angeles at all, it's a staggering number of
Speaker 2: different jurisdictions. And you know, communication wasn't quite what it
Speaker 2: was back in the day. Somebody from LAPD robbery homicide
Speaker 2: sees something, he's going to raise an eyebrow, whereas.
Speaker 6: The pop from Newport Beach, he's not getting it.
Speaker 2: He's not seeing it right. So different levels of talent
Speaker 2: and one not. But I mean, there's people tend to
Speaker 2: people with troubles, not always with troubles and whatnot. And
Speaker 2: this was pointed out on Hunter S. Thompson's seven old
Speaker 2: book Hell's Angel. And people sometimes are camp followers, bottom feeders.
Speaker 6: So they keep moving.
Speaker 2: West and have you know, and they have troubles and whatnot,
Speaker 2: social problems or whatever, and they keep moving west until
Speaker 2: there's no place else to go. It's the same as
Speaker 2: southern Florida as well. Right then boom, you're at the
Speaker 2: Pacific Ocean. There is nowhere further for you to go.
Speaker 2: And I think that that kind of unleashes the beast
Speaker 2: to an extent. You think it might be, wow, I'm
Speaker 2: finally here, but it doesn't because the problems tend to
Speaker 2: follow them the way their psyche has been formed. The
Speaker 2: camp follower if you were, which is probably the probably
Speaker 2: the incorrect term, but hopefully what I mean they're not
Speaker 2: true pioneers.
Speaker 5: Absolutely, and you're.
Speaker 4: Right in the end of the dating game killer that
Speaker 4: he remains in Corcoran's state prison. But there are one
Speaker 4: hundred and nine photos of this photographer of the unidentified
Speaker 4: women Rodney al Kala took, and they remain online to
Speaker 4: this day. One hundred and nine photos waiting to be identified.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they found them in a storage shed of his
Speaker 2: or storage unit in Seattle, and nobody's able to connect
Speaker 2: these photos, which are you have various levels of disturbing.
Speaker 2: They're troubling, they're snapshots and whatnot, but they've never been
Speaker 2: able to link any of them to him. They know
Speaker 2: they're his, no one has come forward and said that's me.
Speaker 2: No one has come forward and said I know her.
Speaker 2: So that is like the John Wayne gaycy matter. I mean,
Speaker 2: Cala is dead now, he died last year, but they
Speaker 2: while facing the death penalty.
Speaker 6: It's one of those things, like John Gasey, that the
Speaker 6: mystery surrounding the murders continue to go on and on
Speaker 6: and on and on and seemingly without end.
Speaker 4: Let's Jesus Bread as an opportunity to stop for a
Speaker 4: second to hear from our sponsor, which is ZipRecruiter. I
Speaker 4: had some personal goals for twenty twenty three, and one
Speaker 4: of them is to start working out again, and to
Speaker 4: do that, I'm going to hire a personal trainer to
Speaker 4: get me started and motivated. It's hard to find people
Speaker 4: who are so good at what they do. It's like,
Speaker 4: if you're hiring, how can you find the best people
Speaker 4: for all the different roles on your team? Easy ZipRecruiter,
Speaker 4: and right now you can try it for free at
Speaker 4: ZipRecruiter dot com slash murder. Why ZipRecruiter because when you
Speaker 4: see a candidate who'd be perfect for your job, zip
Speaker 4: recruiter makes it easy to send them a personal invite
Speaker 4: and so they're more likely to apply. Let ZipRecruiter help
Speaker 4: you find the best people for.
Speaker 5: All your roles.
Speaker 4: Four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get
Speaker 4: a quality candidate within the first day. See for yourself.
Speaker 4: Go to this exclusive web address to try ZipRecruiter for free.
Speaker 4: ZipRecruiter dot com, slash murder Again, that's ZipRecruiter dot com,
Speaker 4: slash m u r d er. Zip recruiter. The smartest
Speaker 4: way to hire. Now, Brad, we were talking about the
Speaker 4: dating game Killer that many many people are familiar with,
Speaker 4: that horrible story and that incredible character, even seeing the
Speaker 4: video of him on a dating game.
Speaker 5: And that's all over YouTube. Your next story is called
Speaker 5: Murder in Farmville, and.
Speaker 4: You say the crime scene just resembled nothing less than
Speaker 4: a slaughterhouse. Four corpses, people bludgeon to death, the hammer
Speaker 4: and a wood splitting tool. And after that these people
Speaker 4: were disfigured, their faces, disfigured beyond recognition. Incredible story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty wild. It's you know, it's one of
Speaker 2: those one of those situations of careful, be careful about
Speaker 2: the company you keep.
Speaker 6: This young woman, I'm a Niederbrock, was.
Speaker 2: Teenage girl who was into the insane clown posse. They
Speaker 2: would consider themselves jugglers. I don't know a lot about
Speaker 2: that world or necessarily want to. And he had met
Speaker 2: this guy who the Internet, who is also an insane
Speaker 2: clown posse fan. Now the parents, I mean, her dad
Speaker 2: was a Presbyterian minister and they were good, solid middle
Speaker 2: class people.
Speaker 6: They'd recently divorced but were on friendly terms.
Speaker 2: And so mom allows Samuel McCroskey. Here's aka Psiko Sam
Speaker 2: in the world of qure com. He comes to a
Speaker 2: state for a concert and whatnot with these people with
Speaker 2: Emma in Virginia. Well, what happens is he has some
Speaker 2: issues and he freaks out and he murders Emma, her mother,
Speaker 2: her father, and her friend Melany, and then he goes
Speaker 2: on the run. He's picked up at the airport. But
Speaker 2: the thing that's interesting, but that story is going into
Speaker 2: completely different and very odd subculture. These kids were devoted. Now,
Speaker 2: most kids may be in the Black Sabbath back in
Speaker 2: their day, but it didn't mean they were necessarily going
Speaker 2: to get the Satanic Bible or anything.
Speaker 6: It's just these but with Across, this was more than
Speaker 6: a phase.
Speaker 2: He pashed them death with camer gave their heads and
Speaker 2: really wait wait, troubling.
Speaker 4: It was this and again it's it's a reoccurring theme
Speaker 4: in why some people killed. But there was this incredible
Speaker 4: rejection of him. Soon as he came. They had dated
Speaker 4: online in this fantasy world Emma and this psycho Sam,
Speaker 4: and she was impressed by his credibility in this horror
Speaker 4: core wrap business, I guess this culture. But when she
Speaker 4: actually saw him after a year. He was overweight, He
Speaker 4: was a shy, he was a shy loaner.
Speaker 2: But bad hygiene.
Speaker 5: Bad hygiene. Yeah, always seems to.
Speaker 2: Be a common scene here too in some.
Speaker 5: Of these Yeah, incredible.
Speaker 4: You have another story called Nasty Nurse. Just give us
Speaker 4: the background on this extraordinary story.
Speaker 6: Michelle Bachel she was n nurse in West Virginia.
Speaker 2: From her high school prom queen cheerleader and all that.
Speaker 6: And she ended up with a guy named Jimmy Michael.
Speaker 2: But she was always carrying on. She she had a
Speaker 2: multitude of affairs. So he What happens is is that
Speaker 2: she skips out of work and Russia's home, then goes
Speaker 2: back to work, and then she gets a call from
Speaker 2: the cops that her hous is on fire with her
Speaker 2: husband inside. She'd given him some drugs to essentially knock
Speaker 2: him out and or or I guess what's better. The
Speaker 2: knockout is basically render him immobile rather than being knocked out,
Speaker 2: And the house was set of blazed and he died
Speaker 2: in the fire. And what they'd found out was of
Speaker 2: course that old chestnut insurance money and kicking off.
Speaker 6: Of a new life with a new man, and they.
Speaker 2: Had suspected her for quite a long time, but they
Speaker 2: eventually taught her.
Speaker 6: But she was not the one to take home with
Speaker 6: the mom.
Speaker 2: She was like kind of floy kill Billy posh would
Speaker 2: be the best way to describe where she came from.
Speaker 2: And one noted and there was more stories vouter she
Speaker 2: would she got what she wanted, and apparently what she
Speaker 2: wanted was her husband Jimmy out of the way.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you have this particularly horrifying story that you call
Speaker 4: Hollywood horror, and you mentioned Black Dahia at that time
Speaker 4: in Los Angeles, Elizabeth Betty Short. But then you quickly
Speaker 4: go to the main character in this and this is
Speaker 4: a Blake Libel, a child of one of Canada's wealthiest families.
Speaker 4: Grew up in Toronto in Forest Hill and raised by
Speaker 4: his dad, Lauren Libel, billionaire real estate developer.
Speaker 5: And Blake lived his playboy.
Speaker 4: Lifestyle and drove ferraris and race cars and so, but
Speaker 4: wasn't enough money from dad. So what happens and what
Speaker 4: is his what are his dreams? What are his aspirations?
Speaker 4: What does he try to fancy himself as ideally?
Speaker 2: Well, he's Blake Bibel wants to fashion himself as a
Speaker 2: comic book graphic novelist that Hollywood producer mishmash of pop
Speaker 2: culture thrown into into one pot.
Speaker 7: And he moves out to Los Angeles in two thousand
Speaker 7: and four and helped along with not only a mass
Speaker 7: of inheritance from his mother who's passed away, but he's
Speaker 7: getting eighteen grand a month and a mansion and all
Speaker 7: bills paid for from his father.
Speaker 6: This kid is super, super, super spoiled.
Speaker 2: So he wants to he wants to get into this.
Speaker 6: Sort of world.
Speaker 2: And he ends around with a lot of other Toronto
Speaker 2: Trustafarians hanging out in Los Angeles at the time, including
Speaker 2: his brother Cody, who was famous for being a pigeon
Speaker 2: for card Sharks in Bossi Angeles. But one guy I
Speaker 2: talked to him who knew Blake Libel had dealings with
Speaker 2: Hi mean he was in the movie business, said, even
Speaker 2: by the weird standards of comic book nerds.
Speaker 6: That come in pitching your ideas, his hygiene was worse.
Speaker 2: He was weirder than anybody else in that new You
Speaker 2: and So. But he seemed to settle down at one point,
Speaker 2: and he married a woman named Amanda and they had
Speaker 2: two children. But he was smoking reefer like it was
Speaker 2: going out of style at the time, and not really having.
Speaker 6: A whole bunch of success.
Speaker 2: I mean, he had the one book he did called Syndrome,
Speaker 2: but I don't know how other than a concept, because
Speaker 2: somebody else wrote it, somebody else drew it, somebody else edited,
Speaker 2: and somebody else inked it. So he had actually very
Speaker 2: little to do. But the prosecutors would eventually would call
Speaker 2: it a blueprint for murder and pretty sick book. So
Speaker 2: him and his wife split up, but.
Speaker 6: He ends up moving into a condo.
Speaker 2: And initially, you know, he blows all kinds of money
Speaker 2: on his new girlfriend, Anakassian, who's Ukrainian woman, And initially
Speaker 2: he blows all kinds of money on her on trips
Speaker 2: and eiels and all.
Speaker 6: Sorts of luxury and even buiser and Mercedes.
Speaker 2: But he gets block picked up for sexual assault in California.
Speaker 2: And this is around the time she's decided twenty sixteen,
Speaker 2: she's deciding, despite the financial good, he's it's not worth
Speaker 2: it being with this guy.
Speaker 6: And that's even after she gave birth.
Speaker 2: To their baby girl. So he wants to have a
Speaker 2: meeting with her, and he goes to her house and
Speaker 2: to their home and their shared condo, and he proceeds
Speaker 2: to torture her to death for eight hours and the
Speaker 2: point for draining all her blood and when the cops arrive,
Speaker 2: he's in his underwear and look looks out of his mind.
Speaker 2: Some of a lot of the cops in on this.
Speaker 2: In Southern California, of course, gold standard and murder is
Speaker 2: the nineteen forty slaying of Elizabeth Short aka the Black Dahlia.
Speaker 2: So detectives corners saying because they've seen the Dahlia pitchers
Speaker 2: that it was worse than the Black Dahlia is like
Speaker 2: among the most amous.
Speaker 6: Crimes ever seen in Los Angeles.
Speaker 4: You right, that part of the horror was that her
Speaker 4: scalp was completely removed and part of her face was
Speaker 4: right side of it was torn away, and she had
Speaker 4: been bitten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, we can go add honesty about the
Speaker 2: grewsome details because there are plenty of them. When that
Speaker 2: woman went through absolute hell before she was mercifully released
Speaker 2: from this veil of tears. And at his trial it
Speaker 2: was just like a no hope for and I you know,
Speaker 2: still in Southern California legal circles, there's still a lot
Speaker 2: of belief that he should have got the death penalty.
Speaker 2: That surely it was a death penalty crime. But you
Speaker 2: could also say it's a matter of NCR. But I mean,
Speaker 2: we don't know that. I'm certain that, I'm certain that
Speaker 2: he had the best defense possible, but his brother would
Speaker 2: sometimes fit in on the trial. His father never came.
Speaker 2: So I think he is now the prison in the
Speaker 2: California desert with nothing.
Speaker 4: Let's use this as an opportunity to stop.
Speaker 1: Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've
Speaker 1: gotten lucky?
Speaker 7: Lucky?
Speaker 1: In line at the Delhi I guess ah, in my
Speaker 1: dentist's office more than once. Actually do I have to say?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 2: You do?
Speaker 1: In the car before my kid's PTA meeting? Really, yes,
Speaker 1: excuse me? What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?
Speaker 2: I never win? And tell well, there you have it.
Speaker 1: You can get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landsloughts dot
Speaker 1: com play for free right now?
Speaker 5: Are you feeling lucky?
Speaker 1: No, we're just necessary for my long eighteen plus terms and conditions,
Speaker 1: plus what everytygains.
Speaker 4: For these messages. Now you have some more titles in
Speaker 4: this collection. You have the taptic called Cup of Lies,
Speaker 4: you have one called Comic Book Killer in Macombe County, Michigan.
Speaker 4: And you have a story called Boy Toy Terror. You
Speaker 4: have that you talk about Elvis execution, and so there's
Speaker 4: some stories about Elvis as a perpetrator and Elvis as
Speaker 4: a victim, and these are noted Elvis impersonators. But you
Speaker 4: have a story called Hotel Hair Air Horror, and this
Speaker 4: involves Ben Nowak Junior, a fifty two year old and
Speaker 4: he's a noted world renowned Batman collector. Now they find him.
Speaker 4: He has a stripper wife named Narcy, and he has
Speaker 4: a daughter named May. How do they find him? And
Speaker 4: this is what's one of the most horrifying aspects. How
Speaker 4: do they find him? What do police find him? What's
Speaker 4: his condition in particular?
Speaker 2: Well, normally they're based in Florida, they live in Miami,
Speaker 2: but they find him in the hotel room in Westchester
Speaker 2: County where.
Speaker 6: He was supposed to be an age show.
Speaker 2: They find him with his head essentially caved in and
Speaker 2: believe the murder weapon is a LAYMP and he's it's
Speaker 2: a long way from home, and so the questions start
Speaker 2: rolling already, you know, is the robbery, is this targeted
Speaker 2: and they start looking at his past. Homicide detectives always
Speaker 2: look at the family first and landed squarely on Nursey,
Speaker 2: who Ben had met while while she was still stripping.
Speaker 2: He had a horatious sexual appetite and he had a
Speaker 2: lot of time in strip joints. But Nursey had come
Speaker 2: to the conclusion that Ben had a new girlfriend and
Speaker 2: there was no prema. So her fear was that she
Speaker 2: was going to be kicked to the curb and he
Speaker 2: would take up with a new stripper.
Speaker 6: And she would be left penniless.
Speaker 2: And that was ultimately the motive, and she recruited her
Speaker 2: brother and some other people to kill her husband, Ben Nawak.
Speaker 6: She later tried to blame it on her own daughter,
Speaker 6: who was who was close with Ben. And the other thing.
Speaker 2: Other interesting thing was, as it comes out, is you know,
Speaker 2: the detectives in Florida are investigating this as well. They
Speaker 2: take another look at the death of Ben Novak's elderly
Speaker 2: mother and they conclude that she had died in a
Speaker 2: fall at her home. New evidence they turn up determines
Speaker 2: that she had been she had been pushed and had
Speaker 2: that she had in fact been murdered, and the perpetrator
Speaker 2: was Darcy Noak because the mother always hated her and
Speaker 2: wanted her out of the picture. Anyway. Interestingly enough, Mercy
Speaker 2: is now at the same prison as Guiline Maxwong. They've
Speaker 2: become a good friends apparent.
Speaker 4: While that's fascinating, and you also talk about that this
Speaker 4: crime inspired the Lifetime movie Beautiful and Twisted, a made
Speaker 4: for TV movie starring Rob Lowe as Ben Noak Junior
Speaker 4: and Candice Bergen as as Bernice Noak. So that's fascinating.
Speaker 4: You have another story called Legally Dead, and you have
Speaker 4: another one called Sinister Scrapbooker and take place in Ocean City.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, The Sinister scrap Booker is interesting. Erica Siffrett
Speaker 2: he hooks up with this guy.
Speaker 8: She was like a high school basketball star and she's
Speaker 8: on a basketball scholarship and she meets this guy, Benjamin Sifra, who's.
Speaker 2: A former military man and whatnot, and they hook up
Speaker 2: and they're going to do stuff together. Now, her parents
Speaker 2: are quite wealthy.
Speaker 6: She's an only child, so they invulge her even a.
Speaker 2: Thing for scrap booking, and so they opened the scrap
Speaker 2: booking store. Well, the couple they go down to Ocean city,
Speaker 2: which is a lesser known resort on the eastern spot
Speaker 2: of the United States. Nice beach shs and you know,
Speaker 2: fairly affordable and whatnot. And they run into this other
Speaker 2: couple out of a native drinking. Now the two of
Speaker 2: them have been raising hell and doing all sorts of nonsense,
Speaker 2: but they hooked up with this couple, and obviously there
Speaker 2: is something more going on because they get them back
Speaker 2: to their hotel room and they all get their clothes off,
Speaker 2: and I think the idea was to have a hot tub.
Speaker 2: And these two people were murdered, and this couple was
Speaker 2: found murdered, and so now they're in jail.
Speaker 4: It's interesting that there's a ruse used in this thrill killing,
Speaker 4: very very original. Instead of just killing them, they came
Speaker 4: up with the ruse that they had been stolen from
Speaker 4: or where's my wife's purse and so from there then
Speaker 4: they said this is the game we're going to play.
Speaker 4: You find the purse and you live. So that that's
Speaker 4: such a horrifying fate for these people that think, oh,
Speaker 4: it's some kind of gross misunderstanding. However, it's just the
Speaker 4: diabolical nature of this game.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, evil, if she had met him it's always
Speaker 2: one of those questions. I mean, you can say Paul
Speaker 2: Bernardo never killed until he met Carla Homolka. So I
Speaker 2: mean it's one of those, one of those things which
Speaker 2: came first, the chicken in the egg. I mean, she
Speaker 2: probably settled down with some nice boy from her small town.
Speaker 2: She probably would have been all right, you know this guy,
Speaker 2: and maybe this guy would have been all right too,
Speaker 2: bj would have been all righty themselves, but together they
Speaker 2: were explosive.
Speaker 4: Well then again, she used this innocent scrap booking hobby,
Speaker 4: but she scrapped booked the murders themselves and kept souvenirs
Speaker 4: like at that place from one of the victims. So
Speaker 4: and she documented everything so very much unlike your depiction,
Speaker 4: very much like a psychopathic personality as well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, that's always the question too in these cases is
Speaker 2: what was just somebody over the line to, you know,
Speaker 2: go from being a nut to a psycho, murderous psycho. Right,
Speaker 2: Whether any really help with.
Speaker 4: No, absolutely not. You have a chapter called the Suitcase Killer.
Speaker 4: A couple floating suitcases, blood leaking from them, and of
Speaker 4: course the sickening contents.
Speaker 5: It's amazing. There's two suitcases.
Speaker 4: Found, one with half a body and then another with
Speaker 4: the other half of the body.
Speaker 2: Well that was yeah, that's the case.
Speaker 4: But Melanie McGuire, Melanie was a fertility nurse, so that
Speaker 4: she was eventually arrested. She had access to drugs, this
Speaker 4: chloral hydrate, and she was arrested in two thousand and five. Now, Brad,
Speaker 4: the last story in this book is called Coach Killer,
Speaker 4: and this is David Temple January nineteen ninety nine. His
Speaker 4: wife Belinda, she's eight months pregnant. He says he went
Speaker 4: out to get some sodas. Tell us what they find
Speaker 4: and what is behind this story.
Speaker 2: Well they find. What they find with David Temple is
Speaker 2: David Temple's tells cops and there are those in Texas.
Speaker 6: They're still a lead. He's innocent. But he comes home,
Speaker 6: does he you know? I think he went to the
Speaker 6: store to get some popper, some soda or something like.
Speaker 2: That, snacks, and he came back and his wife, who
Speaker 2: was Linda, was eight months pregnant at the time. She
Speaker 2: was dead of a.
Speaker 6: Apparent self inflicted gunshot.
Speaker 2: At least that's what that's what he was telling cups
Speaker 2: that he didn't understand it.
Speaker 6: And the whole rigmarole of malarkey. He didn't think.
Speaker 2: No one said that. But what David Temple was doing,
Speaker 2: David Temple was everybody's all American sort of thing, the
Speaker 2: local football coach, which in some parts of Texas bestows
Speaker 2: a godlike massage upon a person. And that's what he was,
Speaker 2: and what he was doing was he was also having
Speaker 2: it in there. And they lived in this place called Katie, Texas,
Speaker 2: just outside of Houston, not far from Houston. And that
Speaker 2: is what he complained in recent days about his wife
Speaker 2: putting on weight. Well, of course, then they met in
Speaker 2: university and decided to spend their life together. He moved
Speaker 2: up the ranks of the coaching and that took them
Speaker 2: to the moment of fate, their moment their destiny. Unfortunately,
Speaker 2: you're his destiny anyway, and herds Unfortunately after.
Speaker 4: This murder, you write that eighteen months after he remarries
Speaker 4: this Heather Scott. So it takes them from ninety nine
Speaker 4: to two thousand and four till they arrest him and
Speaker 4: take him to trial. And of course that trial he
Speaker 4: has the famous Dick to gear In of famed Houston
Speaker 4: attorney who had defended Robert Durst. And but prosecutor Siegler,
Speaker 4: who you right now is the host of the true
Speaker 4: crime show coll Justice. So it's quite the showdown in
Speaker 4: court when you have Dick de gear In defending you,
Speaker 4: so quite a cast of characters.
Speaker 2: I also covered the Robert Durst case when I was
Speaker 2: working for the New York Post. I got sent down
Speaker 2: to Texas to cover that. Island say, one of the
Speaker 2: forgotten parts of the Durst case is he was bizarrely acquitted,
Speaker 2: but he had chopped off as the neighbor's head and
Speaker 2: Austin and Galveston Bay whilst going around Texas Golf Coastmunity
Speaker 2: dressed as a woman. So yeah, lots of back there
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 5: That's incredible.
Speaker 4: You'd see that the what money can buy is a
Speaker 4: defense like that after the fact, with no witnesses whatsoever
Speaker 4: or seeming any evidence to corroborate what he said in
Speaker 4: that it was self defense. So with the best attorneys,
Speaker 4: you get the best defense, and an incredible defense he
Speaker 4: had in that particular case.
Speaker 2: Well, the gharon got him bail as well, and when
Speaker 2: that's when he went on the run before eventually getting
Speaker 2: pulled over in Pennsylvania after stealing a sandwich with three
Speaker 2: dollars and forty.
Speaker 6: Nine cents at a convenience store.
Speaker 2: And was arrested there, and that's when I flew back
Speaker 2: with him in two Texas Rangers back to Texas. Just
Speaker 2: sitting across from observing him for three hours was interesting enough.
Speaker 4: In this collection, it seems that there are many, many
Speaker 4: stories of people that are not content with their relationships
Speaker 4: and whether it be with their parents or be with
Speaker 4: their wife or their husband, which leads to the motive
Speaker 4: of murder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's one aspect that's never I've never been
Speaker 2: able to figure out that planned approach to something like
Speaker 2: that because it seems to me, I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: condoning it, but that heat of the moment, nafan the
Speaker 2: guts or gunshot or whatnot between couple, you know, horrific
Speaker 2: as it is, you can understand that. But the plan
Speaker 2: ad and whatnot, I mean, particularly when we know that
Speaker 2: you're the first person OPS are going to come to.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's there's a you know, a thing they
Speaker 2: invented called divorce, and for me, any of us, it
Speaker 2: works very well. But it's that there seems to be
Speaker 2: something in the American psyche and all or nothing sort
Speaker 2: of pulsion that there's no half measures, there's no well,
Speaker 2: I'll just server with worst paintings, suck up what may come. So,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the thing is you've got combustible combinations
Speaker 2: here of guns and religion and passion and racing hormones,
Speaker 2: and they all all these almost all these cases end
Speaker 2: up being a gumbo of three or four of these
Speaker 2: different elements that become explosive.
Speaker 6: They become like dynamite in some people's hands. Most love
Speaker 6: quarantine boys just sit in mote, right.
Speaker 2: They don't decide to kill their underequited love or family
Speaker 2: and your friend.
Speaker 5: You know what.
Speaker 4: All these stories though very many horrifying aspects as I mentioned,
Speaker 4: but also just the excessiveness of it. You have the
Speaker 4: Terry was shot eleven times and survived and they tried
Speaker 4: to kill him. There is the disfigurement. There's the facial
Speaker 4: disfigurement of some of these victims, the sustained eight hour
Speaker 4: torture in Orgy of Death, the Jackson Pollock crime scene
Speaker 4: inspired with blood everywhere crime scenes, and the man hogtied
Speaker 4: with his eyes cut out. So these are stories that
Speaker 4: have a unique brand of elements of true horror. Throughout
Speaker 4: this collection.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I didn't send out to be the Ghoulmeister,
Speaker 2: but these also happened to be extremely interesting, compelling stories. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: I wasn't jumping into West Craven territory. And that's one
Speaker 2: of the things, because I mean, these murders are just
Speaker 2: extreme examples of what sadly happens every day. They're just
Speaker 2: take to the next level. I mean, if you look
Speaker 2: at the roster of homicides every day in North America,
Speaker 2: most sadly enough, are utterly pedestrian or as a friend
Speaker 2: of mine who used to be a crown attorney in
Speaker 2: Northern Ontarios called them classic Northern Ontario murders where one
Speaker 2: body stabs another buddy to death, or when they start
Speaker 2: arguing over a hockey game on Saturday.
Speaker 6: But like a lot of these are just next level that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's obviously some true psychopaths in there,
Speaker 2: and if you know they're not psychopaths and they certainly
Speaker 2: display a staggering array of psychopathic behavior.
Speaker 4: Yes, well, I just got to say this collection is
Speaker 4: beyond the pale in terms of just fascinating but horrifying,
Speaker 4: and just some of the background to some of these
Speaker 4: stories make them so memorable. I want to thank you
Speaker 4: so much for coming on and talking about your book,
Speaker 4: Cold Blooded Murder, Shocking True Stories of Killers and Psychopaths.
Speaker 4: For those people that might want to take a look
Speaker 4: at your other work or do you do any social media,
Speaker 4: it can.
Speaker 2: Be found on at Hunter T Capital T Capital Capitals
Speaker 2: son so do o Son, that's my Twitter handle. Feel
Speaker 2: free to drop me a line B Hunter at postmedia
Speaker 2: dot com, or you can follow my column pretty much
Speaker 2: every on crime pretty much every day in the Toronto
Speaker 2: Toronto Sun dot com.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Brad Hunter cold Blooded Murder Shocking
Speaker 4: True Stories of Killers and Psychopaths. You have a great evening.
Speaker 4: Thank you for this interview.
Speaker 6: Thanks for having me, Dan, Take care, good night,