Speaker 1: Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo.
Speaker 1: And Lorenzo in.
Speaker 2: This episode, I want to talk about a listener question
Speaker 2: that came through a couple days ago via LinkedIn, and
Speaker 2: I really like this question. This is a listener who's
Speaker 2: been listening to us for quite some time. Her name
Speaker 2: is Nicole, and she reached out because she heard an
Speaker 2: episode from us a while back where we talked about
Speaker 2: vulnerability being a leadership superpower and she was wondering how
Speaker 2: to kind of walk the fine line between being vulnerable
Speaker 2: but also showing composure. And she said that the reason
Speaker 2: why this is coming up right now is that she
Speaker 2: works for an organization where there's there are a lot
Speaker 2: of changes happening and a lot of uncertainty and a
Speaker 2: lot of unknowns, and that's creating some anxiety in a
Speaker 2: lot of the employees. And even from the leadership standpoint,
Speaker 2: there are there are there's information that not even the
Speaker 2: leaders have a lot of a lot of unknowns there,
Speaker 2: and so it's difficult to answer the questions.
Speaker 1: But but she wants to know how.
Speaker 2: To be able to be vulnerable when it comes to
Speaker 2: that and transparent without eroding the trust that the employees
Speaker 2: have in the leadership team. And I thought it's a
Speaker 2: great question, because you know, there there is that fine
Speaker 2: line between you know, how do you you know, we
Speaker 2: talked about it on a recent episode about you know,
Speaker 2: leadership is the ability to hide your panic from others,
Speaker 2: and you know, you can you can be very transparent
Speaker 2: that you feel like things are out of control and
Speaker 2: that you have no confidence and what's going on and
Speaker 2: no information, and that's very vulnerable, but it's also not
Speaker 2: going to do wonders for the level of confidence your
Speaker 2: team has in you.
Speaker 1: And so there is that fine line.
Speaker 2: But I but I think it is absolutely possible to
Speaker 2: do both, to show vulnerability without losing that confidence that
Speaker 2: that your people may have in you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's the what I immediately envision is kind
Speaker 3: of the whole like as a leader, if I just
Speaker 3: throw my hands up and I'd be like, I don't
Speaker 3: know what's going on either, I know, we are not sure,
Speaker 3: like if I give off this vibe or to your
Speaker 3: point we said earlier, like transparently, where like I'm being
Speaker 3: overly transparent with what I do know with what I
Speaker 3: don't know, and then I'm kind of putting that in
Speaker 3: the bucket of vulnerability. I think that's where it gets
Speaker 3: somewhat dangerous. I think in the idea of how people
Speaker 3: will look to you as the leader, I think that
Speaker 3: you can absolutely and I've been in that position before
Speaker 3: where it's like, look, we don't have all the answers.
Speaker 3: There's a lot that's going on. There's changes that are happening, right.
Speaker 3: We all know that, and we all feel the emotion
Speaker 3: of these things as we work through them. And I
Speaker 3: can even share with you maybe a time in my
Speaker 3: career or my life where I've been through something like
Speaker 3: this before and kind of here's what I focused on,
Speaker 3: here's what I did, here's what I believed, and here's
Speaker 3: the best thing that we can do right now for
Speaker 3: one another and for the work that we have in
Speaker 3: front of us, right being conscious not to over promise,
Speaker 3: not to be like everything's gonna be okay, right, because
Speaker 3: that's a very subjective opinion on what's okay to you
Speaker 3: versus what's okay to me. How do I feel about it?
Speaker 3: Did I get impacted? Did you get impacted? Did we
Speaker 3: all get impacted? Like, if you know there's a lot
Speaker 3: of change, and think that's happening around us. It's okay
Speaker 3: to say that that's the facts of the current situation
Speaker 3: that we're all in right now, but it also.
Speaker 1: Has to come across.
Speaker 3: You have to come across as leaders, having that confidence
Speaker 3: and capability of continuing to lead your team, to be
Speaker 3: able to answer questions, to be able to you know,
Speaker 3: provide perspective, or even just create spaces to talk about it,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean. Like, I think that sometimes
Speaker 3: having conversations around the fact that this is what's happening,
Speaker 3: even if we don't have answers, it feels good to
Speaker 3: know that other people may be feeling this way as well.
Speaker 3: And it may feel good to hear other people's thoughts
Speaker 3: or opinions or what they think could be done, should
Speaker 3: be done, what they're considering. That can be very helpful
Speaker 3: in those types of times in.
Speaker 2: Spaces right right when I the people who I know
Speaker 2: who seem to have this kind of confidence superpower in
Speaker 2: the in the face of uncertainty. It is typically rooted
Speaker 2: in a history of experiences of other similar things where
Speaker 2: things worked out okay, And so it's you know that,
Speaker 2: you know, we we as people tend to create monsters
Speaker 2: out of unknowns when we don't have anything to relate
Speaker 2: it to. And and the longer you're in the workforce
Speaker 2: and the more roles you have, and you know, maybe
Speaker 2: the number of times that you've gone through reorganization of
Speaker 2: a company that you're with, maybe you've been laid off before,
Speaker 2: maybe you whatever it was that led you to where
Speaker 2: you are right now, the breadth and depth of experience
Speaker 2: that you have in weathering these storms tends to give
Speaker 2: you the the the grit and the kind of inner
Speaker 2: confidence to just understand that that things will work out,
Speaker 2: and and and and things working out doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you know how they're going to work out. Things working
Speaker 2: out doesn't mean that you know what's going to happen.
Speaker 2: Things working out just means that you know, even though
Speaker 2: I don't know how things are going to go, I'm
Speaker 2: confident that however it goes, I have the skills necessary
Speaker 2: to whether this storm. Meaning my resume is up to date,
Speaker 2: my network is strong, I've I've talked to people who
Speaker 2: at other organizations, and I have a safe place to
Speaker 2: land if necessary. It's the the way you've it's it's
Speaker 2: no different than you know you used to live in Florida,
Speaker 2: and sometimes there's hurricanes in Florida and you know, you
Speaker 2: may not know whether the hurricane is going to be
Speaker 2: a category three or four or five when it, you know,
Speaker 2: hits land. But the level of confidence that a person
Speaker 2: has as you or your neighbors or the community is
Speaker 2: less rooted in Oh, we we know it's going to
Speaker 2: drop down to a category three or two because you
Speaker 2: don't know whether or not you have confidence that you'll
Speaker 2: get through it is whether or not you have hurricane
Speaker 2: proof windows or a go bag to get out of
Speaker 2: you know, get out of the area if you have to,
Speaker 2: that you have a plan in place for your loved
Speaker 2: ones and your pets and the and the things that
Speaker 2: are important, and you know, the photo albums are already
Speaker 2: in the car, like you know. Those are the things
Speaker 2: that that let you have more confidence, not a kind
Speaker 2: of a blind hope that something is going to work out,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: A certain way.
Speaker 2: And so I think that the more you've been through
Speaker 2: these things, the more likely it is that you have
Speaker 2: confidence because you've learned from mistakes and you and you
Speaker 2: you plan better and you just don't you're less likely
Speaker 2: to have your mind create these monsters out of things
Speaker 2: just because you don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think it's a it's a great point
Speaker 3: in an analogy because similarly, it's like if you as
Speaker 3: a leader, if you ignore the storm, right, you want
Speaker 3: to pretend like, ah, you know, yeah, maybe maybe not.
Speaker 3: I mean, these things have gone off course before. I'm
Speaker 3: not too Like, if you don't create the space to
Speaker 3: have conversations about the storm and at least acknowledge the storm,
Speaker 3: that's where I think we said earlier kind of it
Speaker 3: erodes the confidence in the leader right in those moments,
Speaker 3: in these times. As a leader, if you want to
Speaker 3: be vulnerable and kind of as the question is like
Speaker 3: composed to a degree, I think you have to be
Speaker 3: able to walk in there with confidence and say, let's
Speaker 3: talk about the reality of what's going on right now,
Speaker 3: and let's talk about the fact that, like many of you,
Speaker 3: I'm also feeling this right. This is how I'm feeling,
Speaker 3: this is what I'm seeing. You know, we don't all
Speaker 3: have the answers. We don't all know where this is going.
Speaker 3: We we don't know what's the impact of the storm, right,
Speaker 3: but there is a storm and it's here and we're
Speaker 3: working through it. So let's talk through some of that, right,
Speaker 3: let's allow a space where we can talk through the work.
Speaker 3: Let's let's let's share maybe some of the things that
Speaker 3: we're thinking. Let's know that we're going to do our
Speaker 3: best to work through this together, and then we're going
Speaker 3: to take this as it goes, and as the storm
Speaker 3: gets closer and closer and closer, right, then we'll be
Speaker 3: able to have more and more of these conversations to
Speaker 3: to to talk through and to work through the you know,
Speaker 3: the the issues and the situations that are happening around us.
Speaker 3: And I think that, to me is how you balance
Speaker 3: that ability of being composed and vulnerable and transparent enough
Speaker 3: to be able to share the things that that you
Speaker 3: can share. And I think also sometimes in leadership, you know,
Speaker 3: you may you may know more than you're allowed to share, sure,
Speaker 3: and so like yeah, yes, so you have to also
Speaker 3: be conscious of that there's a responsibility there of having
Speaker 3: information that is not right for for everyone for a
Speaker 3: lot of different types of reasons. That doesn't take away
Speaker 3: your ability to be vulnerable. It doesn't take away your ability.
Speaker 3: And I was, you know, I was in a conversation
Speaker 3: not too long ago where I had to say, like, actually,
Speaker 3: like I I do know the answer, but I'm not
Speaker 3: able to share it right now, right right, like I
Speaker 3: because I'm not gonna lie and say I don't know.
Speaker 3: But I also have a responsibility that I can't share.
Speaker 3: But I do know the answer, I can't share it
Speaker 3: right now, but know that as I'm able to do that,
Speaker 3: we'll have conversations. I think it will make a lot
Speaker 3: more sense to you as we have that conversation and
Speaker 3: then as I'm able to share it with you the
Speaker 3: information that I have.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's that's important because because saying you
Speaker 2: don't know the answer, you know, first of all, it's
Speaker 2: a it's not true, but B they know it's not true,
Speaker 2: like they know that you know the answer and that
Speaker 2: you're just not sharing it. And so yeah, that that
Speaker 2: transparency is really important. But on the on the other
Speaker 2: side of it too, you know, if even if you
Speaker 2: have the confidence that something's gonna work out because you
Speaker 2: have information, I think it is it helps to speak
Speaker 2: to the person with the empathy of kind of putting
Speaker 2: yourself in their shoes with the information that they have,
Speaker 2: and I think you're a lot more likely to come
Speaker 2: off the right way. So you start with the transparency
Speaker 2: of yea, let's get let's get the let's get the.
Speaker 1: Housekeeping out of the way here.
Speaker 2: Yes, I may know the answer to this, and I
Speaker 2: can't share it right now, but I understand where what
Speaker 2: you're going through, and I understand from from the perspective
Speaker 2: that you're processing this with the information that you have.
Speaker 2: And it's not just oh, trust me blindly, this will
Speaker 2: be okay. It's what can we do to make sure
Speaker 2: that this impacts you the.
Speaker 1: Least amount no matter what the outcome is.
Speaker 2: And so I think this is where leadership, as a
Speaker 2: responsibility of leaders have. You can work with employees on
Speaker 2: building up their network, building up their resume, you know,
Speaker 2: the things that you can do that say hey, you're
Speaker 2: not just an employee to me on my team and
Speaker 2: for what you can do for me. My job as
Speaker 2: a leader is to help you whatever the next stage
Speaker 2: of your career is, even if it's not under me,
Speaker 2: or even in this organization as a whole, and so
Speaker 2: helping employees do the things they need to do to
Speaker 2: be able to land safely wherever it is.
Speaker 1: If there's going to be.
Speaker 2: A problem that the impacts their role or their career,
Speaker 2: I think it's really important and it will go a
Speaker 2: long way in terms of building a relationship. And hey,
Speaker 2: if it ended up not being needed, you'll still get
Speaker 2: the points as a leader for showing that that's what
Speaker 2: you cared about, was not just what they could do
Speaker 2: for you in the moment. It's like, it's like when
Speaker 2: an organization is going to go out of business and
Speaker 2: they don't tell the employees that they're going out of
Speaker 2: business until an hour before closing time because they're worried
Speaker 2: about the employees stealing from them or not showing up
Speaker 2: to work whatnot. It's like, no, it almost works out
Speaker 2: better if you are transparent with them and you tell
Speaker 2: them what's going on, and then you say, hey, for
Speaker 2: the people who stick around and help us get through
Speaker 2: the closing, this is what we're going to give you
Speaker 2: for helping us do this because we understand how difficult
Speaker 2: this is. That's the right way to do it, not
Speaker 2: hiding it from them and then hoping you know that
Speaker 2: things are going to work out. There's going to keep
Speaker 2: you know, keep their head down and focus until you
Speaker 2: walk in at the last minute and lock the doors. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And with that it brings us to this episode
Speaker 3: is one minute hack, but first, a few words from
Speaker 3: our sponsors.
Speaker 1: All right, for this episode is one minute hack.
Speaker 2: What I want you to do is understand that leadership
Speaker 2: in moments like these constitute's kind of a two tier approach.
Speaker 2: On the one side, there has to be a space
Speaker 2: for people to kind of talk about these things that
Speaker 2: they're worried about. From an emotional standpoint, there has to
Speaker 2: be a safe space where they can come to you
Speaker 2: and talk to you and be able to kind of
Speaker 2: air their emotions around the situation, which could be rooted
Speaker 2: in fear and anxiety, lack of knowledge of what's going on,
Speaker 2: and that while you have to be as transparent as
Speaker 2: you can, even even if it comes to saying I
Speaker 2: can't I can't tell you this thing, but i'll but
Speaker 2: I'll help you get through whatever it is together, go
Speaker 2: through that process with them, have the empathy, let them
Speaker 2: kind of figure that out. But then also understand that
Speaker 2: the second tier is making sure they know that that
Speaker 2: decisions made from that standpoint will likely be less helpful
Speaker 2: to them in the long term. So whether that's you know,
Speaker 2: putting their head in the sand and just hoping things
Speaker 2: work out, or you know, leaving their organization preemptively without
Speaker 2: knowing whether or not their position is going to be impacted.
Speaker 2: Neither of those are necessarily smart decisions. But the right
Speaker 2: thing to do is to say, let's figure out what
Speaker 2: we can do to make sure that this impacts you
Speaker 2: the least negatively regardless of what happens, and that could
Speaker 2: be helping somebody figure out who their strong network connections are,
Speaker 2: making sure that their resume is up to date, making
Speaker 2: sure that their LinkedIn profile is up to date, you know, offering,
Speaker 2: you know, being being well versed in whatever programs or
Speaker 2: or benefits or perks the organization has to help with,
Speaker 2: you know, job placement if needed, or you know, Cobra
Speaker 2: health insurance if that's if that's possible, or whatever things
Speaker 2: there are that make this less of an impact on
Speaker 2: their life. Knowing about those things and how to communicate
Speaker 2: them in a way that lets the employee feel like, hey,
Speaker 2: whatever happens, I have a plan. There might be four
Speaker 2: different plans because I don't know how this is going
Speaker 2: to go, but whatever whatever happens, I'm not reacting in
Speaker 2: the moment and hoping it goes well. I know what
Speaker 2: the next step is and I know how to move forward.
Speaker 2: That's how you maintain the confidence your people have in
Speaker 2: you as a leader while also showing that vulnerability to
Speaker 2: meet them where they are, you know, from the emotional
Speaker 2: and the anxiety standpoint.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a great hack. And like the
Speaker 3: reality is that to your point, like many times, if
Speaker 3: we knew what the answers were, if we knew what's
Speaker 3: going to happen, if we knew these things, like it
Speaker 3: wouldn't be in this space that we're currently in when
Speaker 3: it comes to like dealing with ongoing change or not
Speaker 3: having you know, the just just dealing with all things
Speaker 3: that are going on, you know, right now in general
Speaker 3: and then in general with like the work that you're doing.
Speaker 3: Like if anytime there's a lot of changes happen happening,
Speaker 3: we're in this space and you have to accept number one,
Speaker 3: that you're in that space, and you have to create
Speaker 3: spaces to talk about the space that you're in and
Speaker 3: then even talk through and work through potential outcomes good
Speaker 3: and bad. So like I like the fact that you
Speaker 3: kind of talked about like well, yeah, like like what if,
Speaker 3: like like let's talk about if all of this works
Speaker 3: out and nothing changes, and we're kind of like back
Speaker 3: to where we were, All right, what does that look like?
Speaker 3: What did we learn? What would we do for the
Speaker 3: future in cases was to happen again? Okay, now let's
Speaker 3: talk about if this goes the other way. This is
Speaker 3: not what it's always been. There are major changes here.
Speaker 3: Things are going to happen, and there's the potential that
Speaker 3: people would have to do other work, you know, like
Speaker 3: like what are you doing to prepare yourself for that
Speaker 3: opportunity as well? Like it's important that we're ready for
Speaker 3: any types of changes that are happening constantly, to make
Speaker 3: sure that you're prepared for whatever might be down the road.
Speaker 3: And I think they just starting with that conversation, I
Speaker 3: think can be helpful at minimum to just work through
Speaker 3: the emotions of the change curve.
Speaker 1: Right for sure.
Speaker 2: And it's also important that as a leader, your experience
Speaker 2: is going to be different than what the people what
Speaker 2: your people's experience is now, I don't mean the experience
Speaker 2: in the moment for this situation, I mean the past experience.
Speaker 1: And so how an.
Speaker 2: Employee is able to figure out what the way forward
Speaker 2: is or having the confidence to know that it will
Speaker 2: work out is going to be very different. If you're
Speaker 2: talking to a twenty seven year old person who's in
Speaker 2: an entry level position has been with the company two
Speaker 2: years versus somebody who is fifty five and in a
Speaker 2: leadership role and has been with the company for twenty
Speaker 2: five years, because the reality of what they've experienced in
Speaker 2: their life will either make them more or less prepared
Speaker 2: emotionally and practically for what's coming up up. Also, the
Speaker 2: potential fallout will impact one versus the other. You know
Speaker 2: far differently too, so knowing that that that spans you
Speaker 2: know different demographics and ages and experiences, and and you
Speaker 2: know what's on the resume. All those things matter for
Speaker 2: how an employee is going to interpret the potential outcomes.
Speaker 2: And if you try to project what you know because
Speaker 2: of your experience onto them, that's not going to go well.
Speaker 2: You need to meet them where they are and understand
Speaker 2: that what they're going through is a product of their
Speaker 2: history and their resume, and you know the potential outcome
Speaker 2: or the fallout or what they're going to go through.
Speaker 2: And so if you meet them there as opposed to
Speaker 2: expecting them to be where you are, then you're far
Speaker 2: less likely to come off like you know something they
Speaker 2: don't know. And you're keeping it from them or like
Speaker 2: whatever changes are happening are going to impact them but
Speaker 2: not you. But you also won't erode the relationship.
Speaker 1: At the same time.
Speaker 2: So I think it's it's it's very possible to do both,
Speaker 2: but you have to be intentional about.
Speaker 3: Both absolutely, And with that it praxist at the end
Speaker 3: of this episode, this is hacking leadership. I'm Lorenzo and
Speaker 3: I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you all next time.