WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.080 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK. Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.879 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 6 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:39.840 journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening. 7 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:46.520 On October one, twenty and seventeen, Mary Joe Vontillo's world 8 00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:51.280 changed forever. Her husband Kurt was killed in the Route 9 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:55.399 ninety one Harvest Festival mass shooting in Las Vegas, the 10 00:00:55.479 --> 00:01:00.799 deadliest in US history in just eleven minutes, and the 11 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:05.599 lives of thousands of others were shattered. But what followed 12 00:01:05.719 --> 00:01:10.400 was more than grief. Out of devastation came unexpected bonds 13 00:01:10.439 --> 00:01:14.560 with other survivors, advocates, and families who knew the same 14 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:18.640 kind of loss. From a nine to eleven firefighter who 15 00:01:18.760 --> 00:01:22.439 turned his pain into kindness, to a victim's rights attorney 16 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:27.280 who changed national law, to fellow widows and survivors who 17 00:01:27.359 --> 00:01:31.159 refused to give up. Mary Joe discovered what it means 18 00:01:31.480 --> 00:01:37.519 to carry tragedy together. The Las Vegas massacre connections is 19 00:01:37.560 --> 00:01:42.200 both a deeply personal account and a collective portrait of resilience. 20 00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.799 Through Mark Gray's in depth reporting and Marry Joe's courage 21 00:01:46.840 --> 00:01:50.799 to share her story, this book captures the enduring impact 22 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:54.120 of Route ninety one and the human strength that rises 23 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:58.920 after unimaginable loss. The book that were featuring this evening 24 00:01:59.680 --> 00:02:04.079 is them The Las Vegas Massacre Connections, Finding Strength through 25 00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:09.560 Tragedy after America's deadliest mass shooting with my special guest, 26 00:02:10.000 --> 00:02:15.240 journalist and author, Mark Gray. Welcome to the program, and 27 00:02:15.400 --> 00:02:18.199 thank you very much for this interview, Mark Gray. 28 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:21.080 Hewy you doing, Dan, Thanks for having me on. 29 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.080 Thank you so much, and congratulations on this extraordinary book, 30 00:02:25.159 --> 00:02:28.039 The Las Vegas Massacre Connections. 31 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:30.879 Thank you so much. It was a labor of love 32 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:31.719 a long time coming. 33 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:37.759 You right that you've been published probably thousands of times 34 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:42.639 via your work and entertainment journalism, writing for People Magazine, 35 00:02:42.719 --> 00:02:46.159 Rolling Stone, Entertainment Weekly, and many others. Tell us about 36 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:48.919 the origins of this book project and your relationship you 37 00:02:49.000 --> 00:02:51.360 developed with Mary Joe von Tilo. 38 00:02:52.639 --> 00:02:55.560 Yeah, so it all started, I was, I guess I 39 00:02:55.560 --> 00:02:59.439 could start from even prior to that was in twenty seventeen, 40 00:02:59.639 --> 00:03:03.719 I was hired by Rolling Stone to cover the Root ninety. 41 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:04.599 One Harvest Festival. 42 00:03:04.719 --> 00:03:08.639 It was a three day festival, and the initial story 43 00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:12.199 was supposed to be the ten best things I saw 44 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.800 this weekend at Route ninety one, and Jason Alden was 45 00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:20.439 the last act of the last day, so nine of 46 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:23.439 those items were written. Of the ten best things I saw, 47 00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:27.479 of course, one space was being earmarked for a Jason 48 00:03:27.520 --> 00:03:31.360 Alden set, and of course the story drastically changed when 49 00:03:31.479 --> 00:03:34.479 we were you know, all twenty two thousands were shot at. 50 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:37.800 So I went home that night and I didn't really 51 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:40.280 know what I was supposed to do. There was no 52 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:43.759 handbook for this kind of thing, and so I just 53 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:49.120 decided to write my personal experience, which I rarely have 54 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.719 ever done. I'm usually a pretty prototypical reporter, you know, 55 00:03:52.759 --> 00:03:55.680 you let the sources do the talking and things like that, 56 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.360 and then let the interviews do the talking. But for 57 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:01.759 this particular thing, I just did it from perspective and 58 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.120 I sent it in. I didn't really know if it 59 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:05.000 was any good or not. 60 00:04:05.479 --> 00:04:08.560 It was what. It was, very very raw, and it 61 00:04:08.639 --> 00:04:11.919 took off like a rocket ship. So did that. 62 00:04:12.680 --> 00:04:15.599 About four and a half years later, I was chatting 63 00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:19.279 with my editor at Rolling Stone and he had said, 64 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.079 it's the five year anniversary coming up of Route ninety one. 65 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.120 We want you to go out there and talk to 66 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:27.560 a bunch of these victims and these survivors. Every single year, 67 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.759 there was one. It sounds kind of crazy, but there's 68 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:35.600 one Angels baseball game in Anaheim, California. There's one Angels 69 00:04:35.639 --> 00:04:39.439 game that a bunch of survivors go to, and they 70 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:43.279 sent me out there. I was just tailgating basically with 71 00:04:43.319 --> 00:04:46.800 a bunch of these survivors and chatting and getting their stories. 72 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:49.720 I ended up sitting right behind a woman named Mary Joe. 73 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.160 Vontillo at the actual baseball game, who had no interest 74 00:04:53.199 --> 00:04:56.920 in speaking to me whatsoever. Initially, Thankfully, baseball is a 75 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.519 very long game, and I wore her down, I think, 76 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.240 is what happened, and I started speaking to her about 77 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.399 her experience. Fast forward a year later and she calls 78 00:05:07.399 --> 00:05:09.399 me out of the blue and she says, Hey, you know, 79 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:11.240 I read that story you wrote in Rolling Stone on 80 00:05:11.279 --> 00:05:14.360 the Fiber anniversary. I had this idea for a book, 81 00:05:14.480 --> 00:05:16.120 and I really want to talk to you about it. 82 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:18.920 So I flew to her home in at the time 83 00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.560 southern California and we just got to talk and we 84 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:26.399 spent all day with each other, and the dialogue continued for, 85 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:29.079 you know, another two years or so between her and 86 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:29.319 some of. 87 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:33.399 These other victims. And that's kind of where it all started. 88 00:05:33.480 --> 00:05:37.120 So it's not really a it's not a Root ninety 89 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:41.319 one book per se, but that is sort of the 90 00:05:41.720 --> 00:05:44.040 centerpiece of it. That's where it all sort of begins, 91 00:05:44.839 --> 00:05:48.639 is on October one, twenty seventeen, with the murder of 92 00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:49.639 her husband. 93 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:55.399 You start this book with the von Tillo family and 94 00:05:55.839 --> 00:05:59.120 their annual pilgrimage to the Root ninety one Harvest Festival. 95 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:01.199 Tell us a little bit about what you found out 96 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:04.360 about the family and the importance of this Route ninety 97 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:05.720 one Harvest Festival. 98 00:06:06.839 --> 00:06:10.759 Yeah, the festival was on its fourth year when the 99 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.000 shooting happened in twenty seventeen, and the Vontilla family had 100 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.959 come every single year. Mom and Dad, Mary, Joe, and 101 00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.759 Kurt lived in at the time in Cameron Park, which 102 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:25.079 is near Sacramento, California. Their son at the time lived 103 00:06:25.160 --> 00:06:28.399 in lives in South Carolina now, but he lived in 104 00:06:28.439 --> 00:06:29.120 the East Coast. 105 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:31.360 Daughter lived in the East Coast as well. 106 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:34.800 She lived in Connecticut at that point, and so they 107 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:37.160 would all kind of come together in Vegas as a 108 00:06:37.199 --> 00:06:40.199 family and meet there. Just something they always look forward 109 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:43.319 to every single year. They would book their tickets pretty much, 110 00:06:43.519 --> 00:06:45.920 you know, after the one would end that they would 111 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:48.120 book for the next year already, and it was something 112 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:50.279 they look forward to every single year. And they had 113 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:53.480 their same exact spot they would stand in every single year. 114 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:55.000 They knew exactly where they were going. 115 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.319 They you know, they was sometimes they would their daughter 116 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.519 might meet them a couple hours later. You knew exactly 117 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:04.319 where to go because again, these people were they were 118 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:07.240 diehards for this festival, and so they would go every 119 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:10.319 single year, and that was it became an important pilgrimage 120 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:13.399 for them because it almost became in a way a 121 00:07:13.399 --> 00:07:16.639 family reunion because just because of the distance that they 122 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:20.120 all had as far as their living arrangements in their situations. 123 00:07:20.800 --> 00:07:24.959 Now you were at this festival as well. But now 124 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.199 you've got the account for von Tillo from Mary Joe, 125 00:07:28.720 --> 00:07:31.519 tell us a little bit about just preceding this concert, 126 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:35.759 what the family did and what happens at the concert. 127 00:07:36.000 --> 00:07:39.480 Like you say, at the fourth song of this performer 128 00:07:39.560 --> 00:07:41.920 named al Dean, Sure, the. 129 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:44.160 Family had like I said that they came, you know, 130 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.240 a few days before the festival, or a day before 131 00:07:46.279 --> 00:07:48.439 the actual festival started as a three day festival again, 132 00:07:49.079 --> 00:07:51.399 and they came and did their Vegas thing, you know, 133 00:07:51.480 --> 00:07:54.800 they they drank, they gambled. Kurt was a big, big, 134 00:07:54.839 --> 00:07:57.519 big beer drink or he loved his cores light. And 135 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.839 in the lead up that day, it was a Sunday, 136 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.160 they just decided, you know, to do a typical fall 137 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:05.000 sun activity. 138 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:08.279 So they woke up a little bit hungover, certainly from. 139 00:08:08.160 --> 00:08:12.120 The night's activities and went the sports book, gambled on 140 00:08:12.160 --> 00:08:13.959 a bunch of football games and things like that, and 141 00:08:14.759 --> 00:08:17.680 they all they all won actually that day. They they've 142 00:08:17.720 --> 00:08:19.680 all been very quick to telling me they won their 143 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:23.480 bets that day. So eventually, you know, around five or so, 144 00:08:23.800 --> 00:08:26.360 they headed out to the Las Vegas Village, which was 145 00:08:26.360 --> 00:08:29.360 the location of the concert, and that was on the 146 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:33.279 south end of the Las Vegas Strip, right across from 147 00:08:33.279 --> 00:08:36.399 Mandalay Bay. So Mandalay Bay is on the west side 148 00:08:36.440 --> 00:08:39.200 of Las Vegas Boulevard, more commonly known as the Strip, 149 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:41.799 and the Las Vegas Village was on the east side 150 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.360 of Las Vegas Boulevard. So they went there in the 151 00:08:44.600 --> 00:08:47.399 you know, around you know, five o'clock or so five thirty. 152 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:50.519 I think the concert started with you know, a lot 153 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:52.440 of the smaller acts, of course, start earlier in the day, 154 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.039 and they worked their way up I remember correctly. I 155 00:08:55.080 --> 00:08:57.639 believe the concert started around three thirty or four o'clock. 156 00:08:57.720 --> 00:08:59.639 So they were there for certainly the good majority of 157 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:03.360 the day. So as the night goes on, the Montilla 158 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:06.679 family was hanging out. They would typically hang out on 159 00:09:06.840 --> 00:09:13.279 the west side of the concert venue, you know, probably 160 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:15.600 around twenty yards from. 161 00:09:15.519 --> 00:09:16.120 The stage or so. 162 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:19.600 Every now and again they'd work their way up get closer. 163 00:09:19.840 --> 00:09:21.399 And this is one of those festivals where you could 164 00:09:21.399 --> 00:09:24.320 do that. This wasn't like a Coachella situation where you're 165 00:09:24.559 --> 00:09:28.240 packed in like sardines. Now, this festival got very very busy. 166 00:09:28.279 --> 00:09:30.960 Certainly it was twenty two thousand people, but you could 167 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.279 move around, and so sometimes they'd move close, sometimes they 168 00:09:34.320 --> 00:09:35.919 move back, but they kind of really settled into their 169 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:38.360 spot more often than not, which would say about twenty 170 00:09:38.440 --> 00:09:40.960 yards from the stage on the west side. It's pretty 171 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:45.240 close to the west side VIP area. There was a 172 00:09:45.279 --> 00:09:48.559 kind of a bunch of risers over there, so they 173 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:53.600 were there. They'd planned to leave early that next morning 174 00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:57.159 at the six am flight. Mary Joe knew this was 175 00:09:57.200 --> 00:10:00.279 never going to happen, but Kurt was adamant that we're 176 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.080 gonna get on that flight. Of course, you know, probably 177 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:06.600 around eight o'clock that night or so, Kurt is having 178 00:10:06.639 --> 00:10:08.399 a good time, The whole family's having a good time, 179 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:10.639 and Kurt says, change our flights. 180 00:10:10.679 --> 00:10:11.600 We're not leaving at six. 181 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:14.120 Mary Joe was, of course, she was a little bit 182 00:10:14.360 --> 00:10:16.559 annoyed because she said, Kurt, this always happens. 183 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.200 I knew this is gonna happen. We should have booked 184 00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:19.320 that later flight anyway. 185 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.679 So she's on her phone changing their Southwest flight from 186 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.120 Las Vegas back to Sacramento, you know, and they get 187 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:29.519 that handled and so then around you know, ten o'clock 188 00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:32.600 rolls around, and were waiting for Jason Aldeine to come on, 189 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.000 or he's actually he went on right before ten o'clock, 190 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.679 but you know, waiting around waiting for Alden to come on. 191 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:40.360 He finally gets on stage, performs a couple of songs, 192 00:10:40.960 --> 00:10:44.039 and all was well, everything was great. He was you know, 193 00:10:44.519 --> 00:10:47.759 he'd played I believe the first Route ninety one festival 194 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:50.480 in year one, so everyone kind of had an idea 195 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:52.600 of what they were gonna get with him, and he's 196 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:55.720 a great performer. They were there and by the fourth song, 197 00:10:56.240 --> 00:10:58.600 you know, probably about twenty or thirty seconds into that 198 00:10:58.639 --> 00:11:03.120 fourth song, there are three pops you know, pop pop pop, 199 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.240 and no one thought much about it, you know, myself, 200 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:08.159 I was there. I thought it was I thought someone 201 00:11:08.200 --> 00:11:10.879 brought fireworks into the concert venue. And I kind of 202 00:11:10.879 --> 00:11:13.200 thought to myself, what kind of jerk brings fireworks into 203 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:13.720 a concert? 204 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:14.159 You know. 205 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.759 Now, there was a woman who was probably twenty five 206 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:19.879 feet to my left and I did not know her, 207 00:11:19.960 --> 00:11:24.120 but she started shrieking, just screaming, and I think she 208 00:11:24.240 --> 00:11:26.039 was hit. Now again, I didn't know what it was. 209 00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:28.559 I thought maybe a bottle rocket hitter or something like that. 210 00:11:29.480 --> 00:11:32.440 So there were three pops and then a pause. There 211 00:11:32.440 --> 00:11:36.399 were three pops again, and then another pause, and then 212 00:11:36.559 --> 00:11:41.399 that's when the bombardment of bullets started happening. So, you know, 213 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:44.679 I retreated back to, you know, the area where I 214 00:11:44.679 --> 00:11:47.799 felt was safe. Now marry Joe again, who I did 215 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:49.679 not know at that point in time. They were on 216 00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:51.399 the opposite side of the venue that I was. I 217 00:11:51.480 --> 00:11:53.600 was towards the east side. They were on the west side. 218 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.919 There's no way of knowing this, but Curvontillo may have 219 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:01.399 been the first person fatally shot. If he wasn't, he 220 00:12:01.480 --> 00:12:04.480 was certainly among them. They know this because al Den 221 00:12:04.679 --> 00:12:08.360 was still on stage singing when Kurt went down, so 222 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:12.559 they were there. You know, Kurt gets you know, gets shot. 223 00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:15.000 He got shot in the collarbone, and then the bullet 224 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:19.080 proceeded directly to his heart and he was dead instantly. 225 00:12:19.440 --> 00:12:22.679 He was down, based down on the ground. 226 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:23.240 Turned. 227 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:25.960 In fact, Mary Joe was standing there. She heard these 228 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:28.879 popping noises. She turned to look at Kurt to ask, 229 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:31.279 you know, is that are those gunshots? 230 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:31.879 Or what is that? 231 00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.080 And there was no Kurt when she turned around, because 232 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:38.000 he was already on the ground. So it's pretty devastating 233 00:12:38.000 --> 00:12:40.799 obviously to think about, and for her certainly, And so 234 00:12:40.840 --> 00:12:43.720 they knew immediately that was gunn fire. They the whole 235 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:46.519 family got on the ground with Kurt, rolled him over. 236 00:12:47.039 --> 00:12:50.279 His eyes were still open. He certainly wasn't breathing anymore, 237 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:53.240 and they could see blood already starting to trickle out 238 00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:56.000 from his body. And this was so early on in 239 00:12:56.320 --> 00:13:01.600 the shooting lasted eleven minutes, so you know, for you know, 240 00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.360 ten minutes and let's call it thirty five seconds or so. 241 00:13:06.080 --> 00:13:08.879 You know, they know this man is gone, and they 242 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:12.320 are just kind of trying to fight for their lives 243 00:13:12.320 --> 00:13:15.039 and dodge bullets like the rest of us, while also 244 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.879 tending to you know, her fallen husband and Jessica's fallen 245 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:20.399 father and all this kind of thing. 246 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:25.960 Not only was Kurt shot, that Kurt's sister was shot 247 00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:26.600 as well. 248 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:31.480 Correct, Yeah, Kurt's sister and Kurt's niece, they were both shot. 249 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:34.480 One was shot in the ankle or they both had 250 00:13:34.519 --> 00:13:38.159 lower body injuries and both survived. They both went into 251 00:13:38.360 --> 00:13:41.840 they both got transported really quickly. So in the chaos 252 00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:44.320 of all this, what was happening was people were very 253 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:45.720 much fending for themselves. 254 00:13:45.799 --> 00:13:49.879 Among the chaos of this thing. People were taking you know, wheelchairs, 255 00:13:49.879 --> 00:13:53.519 people were taking beer carts to transport victims. There were 256 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.559 there was a a merchandise area towards the back of 257 00:13:57.600 --> 00:14:01.919 this venue, and there were decorative wheelbarrows that had been 258 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:04.200 set up just to sort of showcase a bunch of 259 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.080 the merchandise. People were taking the wheelbarrows and putting people 260 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:09.399 in wheelbarrows and taking them, you know, out of the venue. 261 00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:15.120 To say to say, for places, and so Dianne and Arana, 262 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.240 the niece, and the sister in law, Kurt sister, Mary 263 00:14:19.279 --> 00:14:20.080 Joe's sister in law. 264 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:24.360 They were taken really quickly out now, But. 265 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:26.759 When they were on the ground nursing their injuries, Jessica, 266 00:14:26.840 --> 00:14:31.440 who is Kurt and Mary Joe's daughter, pull a cell 267 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:34.519 phone cord out of her purse and create a tourniquet 268 00:14:34.799 --> 00:14:38.120 for Arania. So there were little acts of heroism that 269 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:41.000 happened all over the place that night, that being certainly 270 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:43.960 one of them. You know, something as simple as you know, 271 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:47.320 telling someone stand over here, or you know, I remember 272 00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:50.600 specifically telling one woman to breathe, and she found me 273 00:14:50.679 --> 00:14:53.879 on Facebook a few about a week or so later 274 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:56.000 and told me how much that meant to her. And 275 00:14:56.039 --> 00:14:57.720 I said, I didn't do anything. All I told you 276 00:14:57.799 --> 00:14:59.759 was to breathe. But there were things like that that 277 00:14:59.799 --> 00:15:02.320 really meant a lot to certain people. And Jessica was 278 00:15:02.360 --> 00:15:06.080 certainly one of those people who they created tourniquet. And 279 00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:08.840 I don't know, she certainly saved her, you know, her 280 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.720 cousin's life, but certainly didn't hurt that's for sure. 281 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:15.960 You have a dramatic and very vivid scene though that 282 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:20.120 Mary Jove does not want to leave Kurt on that asphalt, 283 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.080 but she's convinced that at least she should move and 284 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:27.840 she could still see Kurt. Now, somebody thinking that was 285 00:15:27.879 --> 00:15:32.480 a great idea, thought, maybe I'll drag this husband to 286 00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.759 their family so that they could see him. And meanwhile, 287 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:38.840 maybe you can tell us why this was such a 288 00:15:38.879 --> 00:15:39.480 bad idea. 289 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.399 Yeah, Mary Joe still, she's still to this day haunted 290 00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.879 by that moment. What happened was Kurt was down, and 291 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:47.480 you know, we're in the midst of the shooting, and 292 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:52.440 the whole family is on the ground and they they thought, 293 00:15:52.480 --> 00:15:55.080 like I thought also, that there were multiple gunmen and 294 00:15:55.279 --> 00:15:57.480 they were all in the festival. None of us knew 295 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.440 this person was at Mandela at Bay across the street. 296 00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:03.399 But the bullets are coming, and these this family decides 297 00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:06.320 our best best chance right now is survival, is to 298 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:06.840 play dead. 299 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:07.840 So they did. 300 00:16:08.039 --> 00:16:09.960 They just played dead, and they were just on the ground, 301 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:13.360 staying for a very long time, and bullets are hitting 302 00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:17.200 the pavement all around them. Mary Joe still speaks about 303 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:20.679 there's a swath of kind of fake grass of fake 304 00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.639 turf there, and she said she could still feel the 305 00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.600 grass hitting her legs from the bullets hitting the grass 306 00:16:26.600 --> 00:16:29.159 and bouncing up onto her. But so she was there 307 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.080 and everyone kept saying, Okay, we got a move, we 308 00:16:32.120 --> 00:16:35.039 gotta move, we gotta move. She kept saying, I'm not leaving. 309 00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:38.440 I'm not leaving Kurt. I'm not going to Eventually, an 310 00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:40.559 off duty police officer runs out to her, and this 311 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:43.639 guy was there just attending the concert. He runs up 312 00:16:43.639 --> 00:16:45.840 to her and he said, you're the only ones alive 313 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:48.200 still out here. You have to move or else you're 314 00:16:48.200 --> 00:16:50.120 going to be shot and you're going to die as well. 315 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:51.600 She refused to move. 316 00:16:51.799 --> 00:16:55.480 He finally convinced her to move just a little bit 317 00:16:56.080 --> 00:16:58.679 to the west and under a couple of bleachers for 318 00:16:58.759 --> 00:17:03.360 some sort of protection. And in that way she was protected, 319 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:05.240 but she could still see Kurt, and that was her 320 00:17:05.880 --> 00:17:07.799 very important to her, was I still want to be 321 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:09.079 able to see my husband. 322 00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:11.960 And she refused to do these. She refused to not. 323 00:17:13.480 --> 00:17:15.440 She had to see him, It just wasn't that wasn't 324 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.240 up for debate, and so she did so. Stefani moved 325 00:17:19.279 --> 00:17:21.680 to this area where she could see the husband and 326 00:17:21.680 --> 00:17:25.440 get a little protection, and she was hysterical, and someone 327 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:28.039 decided I'm going to help this woman out, and I'm 328 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:31.599 going to bring her husband to her. So this person, 329 00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:36.000 who Mary Joe does not know, goes out and brings 330 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.359 this man to her and says, you know, basically a corpse. 331 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:44.160 Essentially brings this corpse to her and says, here you go. Now, 332 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:47.759 this man brought to Mary Joe was not her husband. 333 00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:51.960 So here she was looking another dead man, not her husband, 334 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.759 in the eye, and she is haunted by this moment. 335 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:56.480 She didn't know who it was. She later found out 336 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:00.599 who it was. And there's a side story of this man. 337 00:18:01.680 --> 00:18:06.119 His wife survived. They were there celebrating their wedding anniversary. 338 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:08.839 They were from the East Coast as well. They were 339 00:18:08.839 --> 00:18:11.640 there celebrating the anniversary. This woman, realizing that her husband 340 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.119 was gone, left the venue in the midst of the 341 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.440 shooting and then decided, I need to go back for him. 342 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.599 So she came back and her husband wasn't there, and 343 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.960 she didn't know why, And of course she immediately got hopeful, 344 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.000 thinking maybe he crawled, you know, maybe he wasn't dead, 345 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:30.200 and maybe he crawled the safety because he's definitely not 346 00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:33.799 where he was laying down a minute ago. Couldn't figure 347 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.640 it out, and then it turned out, of course he 348 00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:39.160 was dead, and for weeks she had no idea how 349 00:18:39.200 --> 00:18:43.880 her husband moved. And finally Mary Joe got kind of 350 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:49.200 information about this woman and her confusion, and Mary Joe 351 00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:51.279 reached out to her and told her this is why 352 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:54.640 he was moved, you know, through no fault of her own. 353 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:58.599 But you know you had two grieving widows here. You know, 354 00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:01.079 Mary Joe's certainly trying to trying to see her husband 355 00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:03.680 and sees someone else, and this other woman over here 356 00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:06.519 goes back to her husband who's not there, and then 357 00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:09.039 has this mean can you imagine this moment of hope 358 00:19:09.079 --> 00:19:11.640 where oh my god, he must have made it out 359 00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:14.599 and it turns out he didn't, and find out why 360 00:19:14.599 --> 00:19:16.359 because someone actually moved the body. 361 00:19:17.359 --> 00:19:20.720 That Jesus has an opportunity to stop to hear these messages. 362 00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:26.759 Now you say they marry Joe and her family. Mary 363 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:29.640 Joe's in shock when she's taken to the hospital, so 364 00:19:29.759 --> 00:19:32.839 she's touch and go in a lot of ways. But 365 00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:37.359 later they the whole family watches television, watches the news 366 00:19:37.359 --> 00:19:42.039 coverage on the various television stations. But then they look 367 00:19:42.119 --> 00:19:45.519 to themselves and marry Joe inside to say, what do 368 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:48.839 we do next? They had no practical experience whatsoever. 369 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:52.039 Yeah, no idea. They had no idea. You know. 370 00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.200 Number one, they weren't they were on vacation. They weren't home. 371 00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.200 You know, what do you do when you're on vacation 372 00:19:57.359 --> 00:20:00.839 your husband is murdery or just even dies for that matter, 373 00:20:00.880 --> 00:20:03.519 even of natural causes. Let's say this certainly was not 374 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.880 natural causes. They didn't know what to do. And you're right, 375 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:10.079 they you know, when they went to the hospital, you know, 376 00:20:10.119 --> 00:20:14.480 they had to leave Kurt eventually, and Mary Joe went 377 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:17.200 to the Tropic Cana Hotel, which is no longer there, 378 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.839 but they moved her down there into the base of 379 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:24.160 the Tropic Hana with her. Her daughter was there, at 380 00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.680 which point her niece and sister in law had already 381 00:20:26.680 --> 00:20:31.519 been transported to a local hospital. And so they're all, 382 00:20:31.759 --> 00:20:33.559 you know, she's there with her daughter. They're making their 383 00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:35.279 phone calls, they're trying to figure out what's going on, 384 00:20:35.319 --> 00:20:37.640 and Mary Joe is in shock, so much so that 385 00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:40.759 she actually gets transported to the hospital as well. And 386 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:46.039 they had called family members and very close friends to 387 00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.000 tell them kind of what had happened. And they see, 388 00:20:48.039 --> 00:20:52.759 know Kurt's gone. Mary Joe is certainly alive, but she's 389 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:56.000 not doing well understandably, and. 390 00:20:55.960 --> 00:20:58.920 So yeah, they go to the hospital. Everything. 391 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:02.400 They kind of settle down a little bit and eventually 392 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.319 make their way to Caesar's Palace, which is where they 393 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:08.359 were staying. They got to Caesar's around seven in the morning. 394 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:10.680 They went to their hotel room, and that was the 395 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:14.319 first time they found out they realized the scope of this. 396 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:16.160 It was also the first time they found out the 397 00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.920 shooting was coming from Mandalay Bay. They had up until 398 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:21.559 then they assumed people were on the ground, which of 399 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:25.160 course only fuels the conspiracy theories. But that was where 400 00:21:25.160 --> 00:21:27.720 they found out everything and where a lot of victims 401 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.240