WEBVTT 1 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.239 This episode maintain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions 2 00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:20.839 of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. 3 00:00:21.399 --> 00:00:37.039 Listener discretion is advised. Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this 4 00:00:37.159 --> 00:00:40.880 is Shannon, and we are Crimes and Consequences, a hardcore 5 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:47.240 true crime podcast. Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya, how are you? 6 00:00:47.560 --> 00:00:48.880 I'm doing great? How are you? 7 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:56.240 I am doing fucking fabulous because it's Saturday, Saturday, the weekend, 8 00:00:56.280 --> 00:01:00.399 and here we are recording on a weekend. We love 9 00:01:00.399 --> 00:01:03.840 you guys so much. Yes, of course, gosh, I have 10 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:06.040 to tell you. I'm gonna put it on there. Maybe 11 00:01:06.120 --> 00:01:09.920 I'll just have a little post on the Patreon. I 12 00:01:09.959 --> 00:01:13.920 have the best incense, Like I'm an incense girl. I 13 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.760 like to have my house smelling like a holy Indian 14 00:01:17.840 --> 00:01:21.799 temple at all times, you know, between pachuli and sage 15 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:26.200 and frankincense. I found this box of the stick and 16 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:29.319 it's the good sticks. It's not the bad sticks brand. 17 00:01:29.519 --> 00:01:34.560 I think Satya and they have nineteen sixties pechuli. That's 18 00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:39.439 what it's called. Nineteen or sixties pachuli. Tanya. I can't 19 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:43.120 help but I feel like my ankles get wings and 20 00:01:43.159 --> 00:01:46.280 I'm just like happily like, oh, my gosh, I can 21 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:50.359 hear Mama's in the papas. I'm like, oh, my previous 22 00:01:50.439 --> 00:01:55.920 life is just coming through. So that's what I got 23 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:57.519 going on. What about you? Nice? 24 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:02.799 Nice? I have done jack shit today. I'm happy about 25 00:02:02.799 --> 00:02:08.199 that preach. I like, I think that my daughter and 26 00:02:08.199 --> 00:02:10.840 I are gonna go get some ramen for dinner. My 27 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:14.120 husband is working tonight, so I think we're gonna go 28 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:16.400 get some ramen for dinner. So that's what I have 29 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.479 in store. So nice. Last week I told the story 30 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:24.599 of Stephen Stainer, Yes, and I alluded that that was 31 00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:27.199 like part one. It was part one of a two 32 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:31.280 part series about the Stainer brothers, because Stephen not only 33 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:36.360 had a crazy story, but his brother Carrie also had 34 00:02:36.360 --> 00:02:38.919 a crazy story. And Carrie is a little bit younger 35 00:02:38.960 --> 00:02:43.319 than Stephen, but they both went in very different directions. 36 00:02:43.400 --> 00:02:45.800 So before I get started, I would just like to 37 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:49.120 remind everyone to hit the subscriber follow button on whatever 38 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.759 AF you're listening to. And my story begins. In February 39 00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:56.120 of nineteen ninety nine, forty two year old Carol's son 40 00:02:56.319 --> 00:03:00.000 and her fifteen year old daughter, Julie Taken, family friend 41 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:05.080 and sixteen year old Sylvina Palazzo to a vacation at 42 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:09.599 Yosemite National Park. Sylvina had come from Argentina as a 43 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:13.960 foreign exchange student. Carol had participated in a student exchange 44 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.919 program when she was young, and she met Sylvina's mother 45 00:03:17.080 --> 00:03:20.919 during her time there. She rented a red Pontiert Grand 46 00:03:20.960 --> 00:03:23.919 Prix for three to four hour drive to Yosemite National Park, 47 00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:27.960 wanting to share the beautiful scenery and activities with the teenagers. 48 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:30.120 They were going to stay the night and make the 49 00:03:30.199 --> 00:03:32.479 drive back the next day, where they planned to meet 50 00:03:32.520 --> 00:03:39.639 Carol's husband Gens. Well it's actually YenS, but it's spelled Gens. 51 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:41.879 You know, Jay sounds like a why. They were going 52 00:03:41.960 --> 00:03:44.360 to meet him at the San Francisco airport to return 53 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:47.800 the rental car, but they never showed up. YenS made 54 00:03:48.080 --> 00:03:52.199 frantic calls to the airport, the hotel, and their neighbors. 55 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.879 No one had seed them or had any information on 56 00:03:55.919 --> 00:03:58.759 where they could be. Eventually he called the sheriff and 57 00:03:58.800 --> 00:04:02.080 the police. He thought they possibly had gotten maybe into 58 00:04:02.159 --> 00:04:06.039 a car wreck while driving back. It was February and 59 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:08.240 there was still a good amount of snow and ice 60 00:04:08.479 --> 00:04:11.960 lingering in Yosemite Park. He said, the thought of violence 61 00:04:12.039 --> 00:04:14.680 or other criminal activities hadn't really crossed his mind at 62 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.279 that point. Days turned into weeks with no new leads. 63 00:04:18.839 --> 00:04:23.000 The Palazzos family came from Argentina to join the search 64 00:04:23.040 --> 00:04:25.480 for their daughter. It was the largest search that had 65 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:30.120 taken place in Yosemite history. Carol, Julie and Sylvina planned 66 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:32.839 to stay near Yosemite at a rustic lodge in a 67 00:04:32.879 --> 00:04:37.199 prime location just seven miles outside the main entrance gate 68 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:40.560 of the park called Cedar Lodge. The lodge was made 69 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:44.240 of several buildings, an outdoor pool and hot tub, and 70 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:48.040 detached restaurant. When law enforcement arrived at Cedar Lodge to 71 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:52.879 conduct interviews, you know, gathering information, they toured around the 72 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.439 grounds and had all the rooms opened up for them 73 00:04:55.480 --> 00:04:59.519 to search by the properties maintenance man. Flyers with the 74 00:04:59.519 --> 00:05:02.199 women's pictures and a photo of the car were in 75 00:05:02.240 --> 00:05:05.480 the news and hung up in the surrounding areas. On 76 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:09.560 March eighteenth, nineteen ninety nine, so this is maybe like 77 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.879 five weeks, a man named James Power stumbled upon a car, 78 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:17.319 a Pontiac Grand Prix, while on a hike in Yosemite, 79 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:20.040 about one hundred miles from the Cedar lodge in a 80 00:05:20.079 --> 00:05:22.839 secluded area about one hundred yards north of Highway one 81 00:05:22.839 --> 00:05:25.639 oh eight. The vehicle had been set on fire and 82 00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:30.360 had been burnt so thoroughly that there was no paint, rubber, plastic, 83 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:34.000 or upholstery left. The hiker called, yeah, I know, it's 84 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:34.920 quite a thorough. 85 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:38.399 Job and right in the middle of nowhere in Yosemite. 86 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:42.279 Right right. Hiker called the California Highway Patrol to report 87 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:46.399 the location. When they arrived the following day, investigators opened 88 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.439 the trunk and found the remains of two bodies burnt 89 00:05:49.639 --> 00:05:54.920 beyond identification. Evidence surround the car was collected. They had 90 00:05:54.959 --> 00:05:58.800 found the keys to the car, shoes, a personal CD player, 91 00:05:58.959 --> 00:06:03.199 and a camera. Within the pictures that had been taken 92 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:07.079 with the camera, there were shots of Carol, Julie, and Sylvina. 93 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.959 Photos of the ladies hiking through Yosemite ice, skating, and 94 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.480 in their room at the lodge doing handstands and relaxing 95 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:17.480 like those were all on the camera. When the bodies 96 00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.079 that were found in the trunk were eventually identified, they 97 00:06:20.079 --> 00:06:24.360 were found to be Carol's sunnd and Sylvina Palasso. Reports 98 00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.560 of the discovery of two of the three women being 99 00:06:27.600 --> 00:06:31.319 found spread across the country with one big question remaining, 100 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:36.079 where was Julie. With so many unanswered questions and a 101 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:40.839 killer on the loose, everyone was afraid. Tourism at Yosemite dropped, 102 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:45.439 with even locals no longer visiting the park, resort, and restaurant. 103 00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:49.560 While spring had always been a time when Yosemite began 104 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:52.920 blooming with greenery and new life, the spring of nineteen 105 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:57.879 ninety nine was different. Searchers were combing through the countryside roads, 106 00:06:58.279 --> 00:07:01.959 ditches and the rivers round where the vehicle had been found, 107 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:04.920 with no sign of Julie. It was in late March 108 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:08.240 when the authorities finally received another clue. This one was 109 00:07:08.279 --> 00:07:11.720 in the form of a taunting letter. When it was opened, 110 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.560 it showed a note that said, quote we had fun 111 00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:18.639 with this one end quote, with a crudely drawn map underneath. 112 00:07:19.319 --> 00:07:22.920 The map showed Highway one twenty, the Don Pedro Reservoir, 113 00:07:23.480 --> 00:07:26.680 and a place called Vista Point with an X marked 114 00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:30.839 close by. Searchers began feeling hope that with this clue 115 00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:34.439 they might find Julie alive. The investigation moved to the 116 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:36.639 area shown on the map and a cadaver dog was 117 00:07:36.639 --> 00:07:39.439 brought in. It was about forty miles from where the 118 00:07:39.439 --> 00:07:42.600 car was found. The dog only needed ten seconds to 119 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:45.959 find Julie's body. Oh my gosh, she had been raped 120 00:07:46.000 --> 00:07:49.839 and her throat was slit. Over the course of several weeks, 121 00:07:49.879 --> 00:07:52.800 a task force made of FBI agents and other law 122 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:56.839 enforcement officers was created to begin rounding up suspects consisting 123 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:00.959 of sex offenders, drug users, and next convicts with a 124 00:08:01.040 --> 00:08:04.839 history of violent offenses, focusing on people that would have 125 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:09.680 been familiar with the area. It was stated in Newsweek quote, 126 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.600 the FBI believes that the killer knows the area of 127 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:17.040 abandoned gold mines well enough to hide the car off 128 00:08:17.079 --> 00:08:20.319 a spur road where locals dump old refrigerators, cars, and 129 00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:23.519 washing machines, and well enough to know that the smell 130 00:08:23.519 --> 00:08:26.759 of a burning car would likely not attract attention because 131 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:30.279 the air often reeks from people burning their garbage end quote. 132 00:08:31.120 --> 00:08:33.919 It was mid April when the FBI announced the key 133 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:37.440 players in the Sightseer slings had been arrested and were 134 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:41.879 in jail on unrelated charges. Forty two year old Michael 135 00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:46.120 mick Larwick had been a longtime matthewser who grew up 136 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:49.000 near the area where the bodies of Carol and Sylvina 137 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.759 had been found arrested on March sixteenth after he'd allegedly 138 00:08:54.159 --> 00:08:57.679 shot a Modesto police officer, which led to a fourteen 139 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:01.200 hour standoff. His long criminal rine didn't vode well for 140 00:09:01.320 --> 00:09:06.360 him during his lengthy FBI interview. Larwick's half brother, thirty 141 00:09:06.399 --> 00:09:10.600 two year old Eugene Rufus Dykes, had also been taken 142 00:09:10.639 --> 00:09:14.759 into custody due to an unrelated parole violation connected to 143 00:09:14.879 --> 00:09:19.120 one of his previous charges. Those previous charges included sex 144 00:09:19.200 --> 00:09:23.120 and weapons convictions. He was presumed to also have been 145 00:09:23.159 --> 00:09:28.240 involved in the women's disappearances. Other ex convicts the FBI 146 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:32.519 presumed to be key players included Billy Joe Strange, a 147 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:35.360 thirty nine year old parole working at the Cedar Lodge 148 00:09:35.360 --> 00:09:38.600 restaurant who'd been arrested when his parole officer went to 149 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:43.279 visit him and allegedly smelled alcohol on his breath. Many 150 00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:47.559 people actually rushed to his defense, calling the FBI's suspicion 151 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:51.440 a travesty. So just to put that in there. 152 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:55.039 They're so desperate to to try to find somebody to 153 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:56.360 pin it on, Yet to. 154 00:09:56.360 --> 00:09:59.840 Pin it on. Also taken into custody was Darryl Grace 155 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:05.240 Stephens at fifty five years old. Stranger's roommate mister Stevens 156 00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:10.080 had been convicted in nineteen seventy eight for rape and robbery. 157 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:13.039 He was jailed on March fourteenth for failing to register 158 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:16.840 as a sex offender. By the summer of nineteen ninety nine, 159 00:10:17.000 --> 00:10:20.720 after the announcement of the arrests, tourists began returning to 160 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:23.720 the park and things were beginning to go back to normal. 161 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.200 Five months had passed with no other murders. People were 162 00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:31.519 feeling safe, believing that the predators were in custody. About 163 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.279 nineteen miles from the Cedar Lodge on the western side 164 00:10:34.279 --> 00:10:37.879 of the park is an area called Foresta. Looking from 165 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:40.919 some of the mountainous ridges above, you will see a 166 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:44.200 place the locals called Big Meadow, where an old house 167 00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:48.759 referred to as the Grand Cabin sits. At the time, 168 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:51.240 the cabin was owned by the Park Service and leased 169 00:10:51.279 --> 00:10:53.919 for a dollar a year to the Yosemite Institute, which 170 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:57.360 runs educational programs throughout the park. During the summer of 171 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.000 nineteen ninety nine, the cabin was occupied by twenty five 172 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.360 six year old Joey Armstrong, employed as a naturalist at 173 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:07.480 the park, Joey was responsible for educating children about the 174 00:11:07.559 --> 00:11:12.720 nature in Yosemite. Described as sensitive, loving, kind, and smart, 175 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:15.639 she claimed to have not been afraid while she was 176 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.639 employed there, while law enforcement was hunting for the killer 177 00:11:18.679 --> 00:11:22.919 that spring. Her diary celebrated the day the FBI announced 178 00:11:22.919 --> 00:11:27.000 that they had detained the suspects, stating quote the monsters 179 00:11:27.080 --> 00:11:31.039 are gone end quote. On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, 180 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:34.159 Joey was picking up her Toyota Tacoma for a trip 181 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:38.159 with friends. She never arrived at their meeting spot. Her 182 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:40.559 friends knew Joey well, so they knew something had to 183 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:44.320 be wrong. When her friends called Yosemite, the search for 184 00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.799 the young woman started immediately. Beginning in the cabin, investigators 185 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:51.559 found debris on the floor of the bedroom, including broken 186 00:11:51.600 --> 00:11:55.360 sunglasses and a red mechanics hat. It wasn't until the 187 00:11:55.399 --> 00:11:57.320 next day, when the search of the grounds around the 188 00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:00.600 cabin began, that someone spotted what they thought was an 189 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.720 inanimate object bobbing in the water. When they walked over 190 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:08.600 for a closer look, they found Joey's decapitated body. 191 00:12:08.960 --> 00:12:10.519 Oh my gosh, I know. 192 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.519 Initially, investigators did not believe the two incidents were related. 193 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:20.759 When Carol, Julie and Sylvina were killed, everything was cleanly done. 194 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:23.840 There was no evidence to speak of. The scene of 195 00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:28.440 Joey's murder included a mountain of evidence. The events didn't compare, 196 00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.360 and the authorities didn't want to cause panic without knowing 197 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.360 all the facts. Eyewitnesses had spotted a blue and white 198 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:40.399 International Scout off road suv on the same road Joey 199 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:44.399 lived on around the time she was murdered. Following the trail, 200 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:48.000 investigators began searching for the owner to interview as a 201 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.159 possible witness. The man they were looking for was the 202 00:12:51.279 --> 00:12:54.879 helpful maintenance man that had toured law enforcement around the 203 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.279 Cedar Ridge when Carol, Julie and Sylvina had gone missing, 204 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:03.039 a man by the name of Carrie Stainer, the star 205 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:07.679 of our show Yes. Unfortunately, the FBI arrived at the 206 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:10.559 restaurant of the Cedar Lodge announcing they were looking for 207 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:14.039 the handyman, but he wasn't found a beyond the lookout. 208 00:13:14.120 --> 00:13:17.399 A BOLO alert was put out on the news for him, 209 00:13:17.480 --> 00:13:20.559 and they received a call from a woman named Janet DeMont. 210 00:13:21.200 --> 00:13:24.720 She informed them that she'd seen and had a conversation 211 00:13:24.799 --> 00:13:27.120 with the man they were looking for. When asked where, 212 00:13:27.240 --> 00:13:29.840 she told them he was at a resort called Laguna 213 00:13:29.960 --> 00:13:33.600 dal Soul. Laguna Del Soul is around a two hour 214 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.759 drive north of Yosemite, just like any other resort with 215 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:41.799 camping cabins, shuffle board, volleyball, a restaurant and bar. What 216 00:13:42.080 --> 00:13:45.039 sets this resort apart is the fact that it's also 217 00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:46.159 a nudist colony. 218 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:48.720 Oh, hiding among the nids. 219 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:54.360 Yeah, the nids. When the FBI arrived to question the witness, 220 00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.679 the manager welcomed them inside, saying, quote, you'll be able 221 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:01.200 to recognize him because he's the only one in clothes. 222 00:14:02.840 --> 00:14:04.159 I guess clothing was optional. 223 00:14:04.600 --> 00:14:07.879 Yeah, you don't blend, Carrie. You're gonna want to blend. 224 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:09.200 You need to take clothes off, okay. 225 00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:10.440 Real. 226 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.759 As the agents approached him, Carrie stood up and put 227 00:14:13.799 --> 00:14:16.480 his hands in the air. He didn't ask any questions 228 00:14:16.519 --> 00:14:18.919 about why they were looking for him or what the 229 00:14:19.039 --> 00:14:22.320 questions were related to. The agents told him he was 230 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.840 wanted for an interview and convinced the man to ride 231 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:27.600 with one of them back to the FBI field office 232 00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:31.519 in Sacramento, two hours away. The other agent drove behind 233 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.559 in a separate vehicle. During the drive, sitting in the 234 00:14:34.559 --> 00:14:38.399 front seat next to agent Jeffrey Reinick, Carrie was soft 235 00:14:38.399 --> 00:14:42.159 spoken and cooperative, described in much the same way as 236 00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:44.639 he was when he was interviewed for information in the 237 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.200 case from that spring. He was helpful. The drive was 238 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.200 long enough that the two men began to talk. Rhyinick 239 00:14:51.279 --> 00:14:54.639 said about the time he spent with Stainer driving. He 240 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.600 said this, during that time we got to know each other. 241 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:00.279 We were two guys that didn't know each other, that 242 00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:02.519 were stuck doing something that we really didn't want to 243 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:04.679 be doing, and so we were making the best of it. 244 00:15:04.759 --> 00:15:09.360 We were just talking about us. The agent, recognizing Carrie's 245 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.320 last name, asked him if he was related to Stephen Stainer, 246 00:15:12.919 --> 00:15:16.159 the childhood gone missing at seven years old. You know 247 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:18.000 the story that I told you last week. 248 00:15:18.159 --> 00:15:18.399 Yes. 249 00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:22.279 As Carrie opened up about how upsetting it was that 250 00:15:22.879 --> 00:15:26.919 the man Parnell who had kidnapped Stephen, it was upsetting 251 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.879 that he had gotten off so easily, Carrie became emotionally flustered, 252 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:36.639 and he questioned the lenient sentence recounted by Nick. He said, 253 00:15:36.799 --> 00:15:39.360 he went to prison for seven years, and yet they 254 00:15:39.399 --> 00:15:42.480 held Stephen for seven years and he felt that was 255 00:15:42.519 --> 00:15:44.440 really not right, and I agreed with him. I had 256 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.960 no problem. I agree with you, Yes, recalled right, Yeah. 257 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:48.320 Yes. 258 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.000 Carrie was the oldest of delberton Ky's five children, and 259 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.879 he was born on August thirteenth, nineteen sixty one, making 260 00:15:56.960 --> 00:16:01.120 him a leo. Such a leo that right smack dab 261 00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:08.879 in the middle of this middle. Friends said he was nice, quiet, creative, 262 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:12.480 and extremely smart. It was said he looked after his siblings. 263 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:17.919 At three years old, Carrie was diagnosed with trichotillomania, a 264 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.600 condition which causes him to compulsively pull out his hair. 265 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:23.200 Oh. 266 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:25.600 Although he was put on medication for the condition, it 267 00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:29.039 continued to affect him through high school, leading to bald spots, 268 00:16:29.200 --> 00:16:31.960 forcing him to always wear a hat, and caused him 269 00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:36.000 to be subject to severe bullying because kids are dicks. 270 00:16:36.159 --> 00:16:38.960 They are kids are dicks, and God forbid you have 271 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:43.080 something like this, right, No, right, I mean you can't 272 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:45.840 even have a freckle or a mole let alone a 273 00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:49.440 condition that you know, Yeah, you're doing your best to 274 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:51.600 deal with. Sometimes I pull my hair out. 275 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:58.960 Oka he causes noticeable catches. Yes, exactly, It's hard. Despite 276 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:02.080 the teachers. I noticed that Carrie was exhibiting higher than 277 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:05.759 average intelligence. He was moved to accelerated classes in junior 278 00:17:05.839 --> 00:17:09.880 high Also known as a talented cartoonist, being showcased in 279 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:14.039 the school newspaper, he was ultimately voted most creative in 280 00:17:14.119 --> 00:17:19.880 his senior class. After Stephen's disappearance, the entire family dynamic shifted. 281 00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.599 His father became an emotional rock and his mother became 282 00:17:23.839 --> 00:17:28.799 extremely distant, raising her children almost an autopilot. Both parents 283 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:32.079 became colder to the children that they were still raising. 284 00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:36.680 Carrie felt abandoned and neglected through it all. Carrie said 285 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:38.559 that he would go out for walks at night and 286 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:41.000 look at the stars, wishing on one of them for 287 00:17:41.039 --> 00:17:44.680 Stephen to come home, and then Stephen came back. When 288 00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:48.799 his brother returned, Stephen was practically a stranger, being forced 289 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.000 to share a room. The teens didn't get along. Carrie 290 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:54.440 felt he'd been put on the shelf when Stephen disappeared, 291 00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:58.119 but it was even more pronounced when Stephen returned, confirming 292 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:01.079 his place in the background of his family, making him 293 00:18:01.160 --> 00:18:05.319 even more frustrated by the publicity surrounding his brother. After 294 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:08.400 graduating high school in nineteen seventy nine, Carrie was lost. 295 00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:12.200 When he was overwhelmed or needed space, he would drive 296 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.839 out on Highway one oh four into Yosemite in his 297 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.079 pale blue and white nineteen seventy two International Scout and 298 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:21.079 disappeared into the woods and smoked weed. 299 00:18:23.039 --> 00:18:23.359 Nice. 300 00:18:23.839 --> 00:18:28.559 Yes, Carrie had emotional difficulties, some that people knew about, 301 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:31.160 and some he kept to himself. Beginning as young as 302 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.240 seven years old, Carrie said he had begun fantasizing about 303 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.799 abducting and murdering women. He was also found to have 304 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:41.559 exposed himself to a friend of one of his sisters 305 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:45.039 as a teenager, while the girl was staying over at 306 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:48.039 their house. Carrie had crept under the cot she was 307 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:50.839 sleeping in and reached up to touch her breasts. When 308 00:18:50.880 --> 00:18:52.680 she told him to go away, he left the room, 309 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.480 only to reappear later fully nude, prompting her to tell 310 00:18:56.559 --> 00:18:59.720 him to leave a second time. When other boys age 311 00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:02.880 started dating, Carrie did not. He was believed to be 312 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:07.200 the cliche, quiet, artistic type. Girls want to go out 313 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:11.079 with the tall, dark, athletic boy who had brooding hazel eyes, 314 00:19:11.119 --> 00:19:15.000 but Carrie would never oblige. In nineteen eighty nine, Stephen 315 00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:18.960 passed away and shortly after, in nineteen ninety, Carrie's uncle 316 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:21.119 that he'd been living with was shot and killed in 317 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:24.079 the home they shared together. And the family has. 318 00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.359 Some gosh, that is so much for one family. 319 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:29.440 One family, that's terrible. 320 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:33.920 It's just yeah, it's to take it all in. I 321 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.960 don't even know, like I put it myself in their 322 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.079 mom's place, you know, like with Stephen gone. And then 323 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:43.400 how last week we were talking about, you know, like 324 00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:47.759 the reacclamation into the family after being gone so long, 325 00:19:48.359 --> 00:19:51.240 he came back right before school started and bad a boom, 326 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:54.720 bat a bang right back in school, right, you know. 327 00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.079 So that's just a lot of people going through a 328 00:19:58.079 --> 00:19:59.640 lot of things at the same time. 329 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:05.279 Wow, that is Carrie's emotions began to boil. In the 330 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:08.720 early nineties. Carrie was working as a window installer at 331 00:20:08.759 --> 00:20:12.240 a glass company after graduating high school. He developed a 332 00:20:12.279 --> 00:20:15.240 fantasy that he was going to ram a truck into 333 00:20:15.279 --> 00:20:18.079 the shop, killing everyone there, and then setting the place 334 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:21.799 on fire. He had some crazy, intrusive thoughts. 335 00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.319 That is crazy, the only kind of violent. I remember 336 00:20:24.319 --> 00:20:27.039 when I was married and I didn't want to be 337 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:30.519 married anymore, and I remember being like at this right 338 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:33.319 turn on the street, and I thought, man, if they 339 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.559 someone could just hit the driver's side because he was driving, 340 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:40.240 you know, this would just work out. I would be, 341 00:20:40.599 --> 00:20:44.920 you know, safe from the impact. And she hadn't no 342 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:50.400 longer married. So Steve would like, well, I can kind 343 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:52.759 of relate to violent thoughts like that. But that was 344 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:56.200 many many moons ago, yes, long time ago. But how 345 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:59.039 do you just have these thoughts of just like I'm seven, 346 00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:01.759 what'd you say? He was thinking about killing and raping 347 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:05.400 women already already? I know, what do you watch? I 348 00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:08.160 don't eat. But it's hard what he was going through 349 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.279 at that time. Who knows? 350 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.440 Yeah, who knows. Opening about his potential violent breakdown to 351 00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:18.519 his friends, they noticed his cry for help and took 352 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:21.599 him to a mental health care center and got him checked, 353 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:24.920 but soon after, Carrie checked himself out, preferring to take 354 00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:29.640 refuge in Yosemite. Soon after, Carrie went into work to 355 00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.200 pick up his paycheck and never return there for a shift, 356 00:21:32.319 --> 00:21:36.240 telling the owner he was thinking about moving. Struggling for 357 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:39.480 decades to control his impulses, he ended up taking a 358 00:21:39.559 --> 00:21:42.480 job at the Cedar Lodge in nineteen ninety seven as 359 00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:46.559 a maintenance man. Yosemite had always provided him with serenity 360 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.519 going up there to smoke pot and sun bathed naked. 361 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:53.440 He was a highly regarded employee, to the extent that 362 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:56.680 the owner would send his own kids out to help 363 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.240 Carrie with the hotel maintenance and learn from him. With 364 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.519 all the compliments that he got. Not all the people 365 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.240 he came across had the wold pulled over their eyes. However, 366 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:10.519 Tricia Howtis and her husband ran the restaurant at the lodge. 367 00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.079 Their daughter enjoyed swimming in the pool during the summer months, 368 00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.960 and she described how Carrie would stand and stare at 369 00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:19.960 their daughter while she was swimming, to the point that 370 00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.519 it would freak the girl out. She described him as 371 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:26.839 cold and hateful. Tricia once even confronted Carrie saying, quote, 372 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:29.640 if you go toward my daughter ever, I will destroy you. 373 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:31.160 End quote. 374 00:22:31.519 --> 00:22:33.079 That's mama, bear right there. 375 00:22:33.319 --> 00:22:35.759 Yes, don't you like your kid? 376 00:22:36.240 --> 00:22:37.000 Exact right. 377 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:40.160 None of this was known to the FBI agents at 378 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:43.839 the point they went to collect Carrie at the Nudest Colony. 379 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:47.400 He wasn't suspected of murder. The emotional connection the agent 380 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:49.960 built with the man was genuine, and they built a bond. 381 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:53.799 While talking about his brother, but Carrie was still manipulative. 382 00:22:54.799 --> 00:22:58.160 On the drive, Agent Ryanik kept looking over at Carrie 383 00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:00.880 and would say occasionally, quote, you look just like Billy 384 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.799 Jack end quote, asking him if he ever saw the 385 00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:08.319 nineteen seventy one movie, Carrie would repeatedly deny having seen it. 386 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:11.759 They also connected over a song in it called One 387 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:15.519 Tin Soldier. Eventually, Carrie, Jeff, and the agent that had 388 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.799 been following behind reached the Sacramento office for an interview, 389 00:23:18.839 --> 00:23:21.279 and before they walked in the door, Carrie stopped and 390 00:23:21.319 --> 00:23:24.599 said this line from the movie quote, I'm gonna take 391 00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:27.680 this right foot and I'm gonna whoop you that side 392 00:23:27.680 --> 00:23:29.799 of your face. There's not a damn thing you can 393 00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:30.359 do about it. 394 00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:31.160 End quote. 395 00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:33.720 Both men laughed as they walked in. But the fact 396 00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:36.359 that for the whole two hour car ride Carrie had 397 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:39.079 denied seeing the movie and then could stand there and 398 00:23:39.200 --> 00:23:43.759 quote that line is a small window into the manipulation. Yes, like, 399 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:46.720 why are you lying about it? It's just fucking weird, 400 00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:48.079 it is, But. 401 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.559