WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

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<v Speaker 2>These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and

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<v Speaker 2>raid it five star me grates on us today.

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<v Speaker 1>And listening watching lim always keep its watching. And now

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<v Speaker 1>you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How you doing Man?

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<v Speaker 3>Good? Good? How's going with you?

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<v Speaker 2>It's going right. You think it's December to be better

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<v Speaker 2>at the museum, but it's just a slow season. But

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<v Speaker 2>that doesn't mean that we're at the sandstill because there's

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<v Speaker 2>lots of stuff going on. I mean, I think I

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<v Speaker 2>turned in two new displays this past week for printing,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think that brings it up to one, two, three,

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<v Speaker 2>four of I This is six or seven new displays

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be putting up in January, and I'm not even

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<v Speaker 2>done yet. There's a few more that I have to do.

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<v Speaker 2>We're getting a new digital display in which is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of cool. It's gonna be a first for us, like

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<v Speaker 2>an interactive touchscreen sort of display. I'll tell you about

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<v Speaker 2>when it's done. We've got some cooperation from other Bigfooters

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<v Speaker 2>out there on that one. We got some new stuff

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<v Speaker 2>about the history and nomenclature of Sasquatch and Bigfoot. We've

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<v Speaker 2>got some new Peter Burn artifacts that are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be displayed. Of course, the Meldrum stuff is being integrated

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<v Speaker 2>pretty effectively as well. Lots of stuff going on at

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<v Speaker 2>the NABC as always, so we don't sit still.

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<v Speaker 3>Well yeah that's great. Yeah, I mean it'd be really

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<v Speaker 3>easy to breshing your laws. Like man, I was paining

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<v Speaker 3>the butt putting that. I'm just gonna that's good enough.

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<v Speaker 3>People will see it, you know, like whatever, if you

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<v Speaker 3>want to, if you want to keep people coming back,

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<v Speaker 3>you got to change stuff up. Because I'm sure what

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<v Speaker 3>percentage do you think is repeat customers?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I don't I don't if I if

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<v Speaker 2>I had to take a guess, which I guess I do?

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<v Speaker 3>We see?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know what some people come in and says, oh, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we've been here before, or like when they come in

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<v Speaker 2>the door. I always ask my employees and I do

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<v Speaker 2>the same to greet the customer. Say, everybody who comes

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<v Speaker 2>in gets a hello from us and a thank you

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<v Speaker 2>when they leave, right, And it's just good business practice,

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<v Speaker 2>I think. And when they come in and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to check out the museum today and some

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<v Speaker 2>people say, oh, I've already seen it. They go, okay, great,

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<v Speaker 2>well when did you see it? Oh, I saw it

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<v Speaker 2>right after you opened. Say, well, then you haven't seen it,

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<v Speaker 2>but they think they have. We're a little bit different now,

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<v Speaker 2>let to say the least. So as far as that goes, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>we do get a lot of repeat customers, but regular

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<v Speaker 2>customers are fewer. I don't know what percentage. It'd be

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<v Speaker 2>hard to venture that. Guess what people are dropping by

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<v Speaker 2>like every two or three months, but a fair number,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't know. There's probably at least a

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<v Speaker 2>few dozen or maybe fifty people or so that do that, right,

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<v Speaker 2>But I don't know what percentage that would be. But

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<v Speaker 2>that's the whole point, you know. We try to keep

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<v Speaker 2>people coming back because we have a small facility, and

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<v Speaker 2>luckily we can we have we're nimble enough being a

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<v Speaker 2>small facility that we can change things out. But it's

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<v Speaker 2>almost to the point where a good percentage, probably a

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<v Speaker 2>third or half of the stuff we have in there,

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<v Speaker 2>I think should be permanently exhibited, you know, like the

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<v Speaker 2>Ape Canyon stuff, right, Like I don't want to pull that.

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<v Speaker 2>That's cool, totally. Well, yeah, so yeah, there's certain things

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<v Speaker 2>that I want to keep up all the time, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, being a small facility, we have to

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<v Speaker 2>use whatever wall space we have or floor space or

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<v Speaker 2>even ceiling space as display places. You know, we have

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<v Speaker 2>some stuff on the ground that replicates the Patterson Gidwin

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<v Speaker 2>step length. Yeah, we're kind of building up a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, trying to go above head level, like we're

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<v Speaker 2>doing a tree break a tree twist display, because I

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<v Speaker 2>have some historical stuff from the Freeman collection via doctor Meldrum,

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<v Speaker 2>and of course we have a number of tree twists

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<v Speaker 2>in the woods that are just sitting there that are astonishing,

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<v Speaker 2>just astonishing, amazing things that nobody would argue is done naturally,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like that's not wind for example.

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<v Speaker 3>Or not elm harvests.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, well, that's just it. I applied for the permit

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<v Speaker 2>back in October, but then these people who think they're

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<v Speaker 2>running the country shut everything down for a little bit,

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<v Speaker 2>so that delayed everything. And I went into the office

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<v Speaker 2>about a week and a half two weeks ago and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 2>remember me that guy up the street the big Foot

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<v Speaker 2>Museum and just haven't heard anything. And they say, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 2>here's an here's the email address for the and I

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<v Speaker 2>wrote that person that the next day and it's been

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<v Speaker 2>about two weeks now, no reply yet. So I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>I can't go harvest these individual trees, these twisted trees,

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<v Speaker 2>until I get the permit, of course, just kind of waiting.

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<v Speaker 2>And until we get the trees, I can't really design

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<v Speaker 2>the display. But those are going to go above the

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<v Speaker 2>head of everybody, so they're out of the reach of

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<v Speaker 2>you know, various people who come into the museum, like

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<v Speaker 2>kids mostly, And then so yeah, we're new stuff is happening,

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<v Speaker 2>New stuff is happening, more stuff in January. So if

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<v Speaker 2>you are coming out to anywhere, if for our listeners

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<v Speaker 2>are coming out to squatch Fest or whatever, they're intergalactic,

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<v Speaker 2>they've gone UFO now whatever UFO's are real at least,

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<v Speaker 2>but that again, you know how I feel about the

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<v Speaker 2>paranormalill being introduced to this so watch thing. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it's unfortunate, but I guess there's more money in it.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, I guess that's the way the Chamber of

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<v Speaker 2>Commerce might do this. So anyway, at the end of January,

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<v Speaker 2>now they're not all money grifters.

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<v Speaker 3>That are like, there's no times you guys have legit

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<v Speaker 3>things that happening that is not explained conventionally that got

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<v Speaker 3>into that because of what they experienced themselves.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, I get. But I have been

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<v Speaker 2>told that the UFO community has more money than the

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<v Speaker 2>bigfoot community. Well obviously, yeah, by people who went that direction, So.

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<v Speaker 3>Of course I got. What it's not even close. Yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>there's a thousand like PhD and genius level guys like

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<v Speaker 3>that are way recognizing their fields internationally that you know,

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<v Speaker 3>are interested and involved in that whole you know, UFO phenomena.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and yeah, if various festivals want to go that direction,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess it's okay. But they're trying to make a

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<v Speaker 2>big tent where everybody fits underneath it. That's the driving

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<v Speaker 2>force now for me, like trying to prove the species,

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<v Speaker 2>it's just a let's keep this thing real for a change,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, let this do the big foot stuff for real.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think UFOs and big foot blong in the

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<v Speaker 2>same bucket.

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<v Speaker 3>It might it could be part of the whole idea

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<v Speaker 3>of the grand unification of the weird hogwash balder dash.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of people smarter than all of us.

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<v Speaker 3>I think there's something to it.

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<v Speaker 1>Who a lot name three?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh dude, yeah, next episode, next next, I'll have a

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<v Speaker 3>list of twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>You said there's a lot name three?

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<v Speaker 3>Three?

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<v Speaker 1>Is not that many to name.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, I'm not get off the top of my

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<v Speaker 3>head through it. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of people that it should like the whole overlapping of

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<v Speaker 3>like you know, like potentially like parallel universes. Although I

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<v Speaker 3>just listened to a podcast with these, like it's way

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<v Speaker 3>over my head most of it. But this guy's explain

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<v Speaker 3>how the there is like people CITs evidence for parallel universes,

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<v Speaker 3>there's really no evidence. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I just think any sort of like grand unification of

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<v Speaker 1>the weird just falls short. It's just using the gaps,

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<v Speaker 1>which there are many gaps, and that's why these are

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<v Speaker 1>all mysterious phenomena because they're as yet unproven, and trying

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<v Speaker 1>to fill those gaps with other mysterious phenomena where it's

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<v Speaker 1>like there is obviously something too, like the apparitional phenomena

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<v Speaker 1>because it's been reported worldwide forever, and there's obviously something

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<v Speaker 1>to the UFO phenomenon, and there's in our opinion something

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<v Speaker 1>to the mystery a phenomenon, but to think that they

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<v Speaker 1>all have a common source, like, to me, the things

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<v Speaker 1>that are common across them are the human experience, because

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<v Speaker 1>what all those things have in common are they're all

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<v Speaker 1>experienced by human observers and they're being filtered through the

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<v Speaker 1>human psyche. And so yes, people describe those experiences in

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<v Speaker 1>many of the same ways their reactions, their perceptions, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 1>But that doesn't mean that they have a common source.

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<v Speaker 1>Like as far as I can tell, Like I've said before,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm no more willing to assume that they're connected than

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<v Speaker 1>anything else that occurs in the natural world, because yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's mysterious phenomena out there, but that mean that they're

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<v Speaker 1>associated with possums or elk or deer, like no one

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<v Speaker 1>thinks that.

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<v Speaker 3>Extra like either extra traustial or ultratreustrial sources like in

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<v Speaker 3>DNA manipulations. Think if they're if they really are here

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<v Speaker 3>for genetic material, although I could argue against that in

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<v Speaker 3>some ways too, But if they're here like and they're

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<v Speaker 3>doing experiments like with humans and human type creatures, I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>who knows. I mean, who knows if all this UFO stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, that's because the UFO phenomenon to mean is

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<v Speaker 3>wide open. So like, what what's the cause? What if

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<v Speaker 3>they are whatever, if they are extra ultraterrestrial, what's their purpose?

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<v Speaker 3>How long do you know all this? And that like

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<v Speaker 3>it's we don't know. It's wide open.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh certainly, But then to say that like it's definitely

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<v Speaker 1>connected to this one particular animal again, why not possums.

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<v Speaker 3>Because they don't want possum gena, they want human DNA.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know?

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<v Speaker 3>Because I know, I know feel have been on those

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<v Speaker 3>ships for it, They've talked to these people.

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<v Speaker 2>May they say that it's at least a possibility.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my point though, is like people see people are

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<v Speaker 1>in forced areas and they have UFO sidings or aparitional experiences,

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<v Speaker 1>and no one ever attributes them to animals that are

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<v Speaker 1>like much more abundant in those places.

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<v Speaker 3>Jeremy to start a vimit through it?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I think we should. I think we should

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<v Speaker 1>have like possum and beyond.

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<v Speaker 3>You think I won't. You think I won't.

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<v Speaker 1>Because I am very interested in I've read a lot

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<v Speaker 1>about the UFO phenomenon. I've read a lot about the

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<v Speaker 1>apparitional or like consciousness, surviving beyond death, like all those

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<v Speaker 1>things fascinate me. I just I don't think necessarily they're

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<v Speaker 1>all associated with the sasquatch, you know.

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<v Speaker 3>Right, I mean, yeah, I don't think. I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>sasquatches are piloting UFOs or anything like that. But if

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<v Speaker 3>they are taking up people, and I guess to take

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<v Speaker 3>cows too, like you know, cattle and other I guess

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<v Speaker 3>other animals they do those they find with those weird

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<v Speaker 3>like like autopsy like it was basically how autopsy and

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<v Speaker 3>the organs or movie like with lasers. It looks like

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<v Speaker 3>the majority is cattle, but they also you know, other

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<v Speaker 3>livestock they get it just as well, but not as much.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I think everybody knows my stance. You know. It's like,

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<v Speaker 2>if they are associated with all these paranormal things, if

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<v Speaker 2>they can turn invisible, if they can transfer people back

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<v Speaker 2>in time, if they can speak to you inside your head,

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<v Speaker 2>if they can do any of these things. Once they

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<v Speaker 2>are discovered, they're not going to hide that from us,

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<v Speaker 2>And some people are probably going to say, oh, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>they're going to hide that. Then we have to assume,

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<v Speaker 2>just like Krantz points out in his book, then we

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<v Speaker 2>have to assume wolves are also hiding that stuff from

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<v Speaker 2>us as well, and that doesn't really get us anywhere, right,

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<v Speaker 2>So let's get over the first home. Let's tell everybody

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<v Speaker 2>that they're there, and in the meantime, let's just use

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<v Speaker 2>the objective stuff that seems to be most real, that

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<v Speaker 2>aren't outliers in order to keep the scientists involved.

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<v Speaker 3>I get that, I get all that. I'm just saying

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<v Speaker 3>that I think we can't definitively say anything yet all

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<v Speaker 3>on those things now.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think if you were making a prediction and

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<v Speaker 1>you were to look at like this host of beliefs

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<v Speaker 1>that people have about sasquatches, and that most people, because

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<v Speaker 1>they're so interested in this subject, like most of the

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<v Speaker 1>people who you know would be in our audience, have

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<v Speaker 1>only ever encountered those beliefs via sasquatch books, podcast, movies, documentaries, testimony,

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<v Speaker 1>on and on and on. And then to step outside

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<v Speaker 1>of that, which is, you know, I've been beating this

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<v Speaker 1>drum forever, but to try to say, well, no, look

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<v Speaker 1>at these other animals that are analogous in many ways,

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<v Speaker 1>that had the exact same beliefs associated with them the

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<v Speaker 1>same you got one.

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<v Speaker 3>Of the examples of all those in zoos and museums,

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<v Speaker 3>like they've all been documented, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but there was a time when they weren't. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>there were centuries and centuries where they weren't.

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<v Speaker 3>But my point is, like those before they had thermal imergy,

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<v Speaker 3>before they had camera traps, before they had firearms, before

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<v Speaker 3>they had all these things that we've had access to

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<v Speaker 3>you now for like one hundred years or more in

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<v Speaker 3>those thereas and some stuff obviously newer. But dude, it's

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<v Speaker 3>weird that we don't have one known sample.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't think that it's weird that you can see

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<v Speaker 1>the exact same suite of beliefs, like the same collection,

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<v Speaker 1>in the same context, the same mystical powers attributed to them,

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<v Speaker 1>like point for point, almost verbatim, in this slew of

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<v Speaker 1>other analogous animals that we now understand to be like

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<v Speaker 1>perfectly normal.

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<v Speaker 3>That you could easily say, like, well, this is the

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<v Speaker 3>way that normal. We have samples of mobil we don't

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<v Speaker 3>have we don't have sasquats.

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<v Speaker 1>Due so, but you would have to then concede that like, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>well we just somehow, you know, devoid of our own psyches,

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<v Speaker 1>just randomly came up with the same suite of beliefs

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<v Speaker 1>of all these animals, and it happened that none of

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<v Speaker 1>them were They were metaphorically true, but not literally true,

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<v Speaker 1>except in the case of this one animal that like.

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<v Speaker 3>O, how long of those are solved? You're talking a

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<v Speaker 3>long time ago? The amount of fire like just do

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<v Speaker 3>the upgrade and firearms alone? I mean, did you not

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<v Speaker 3>have one body or part even like a finger that

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<v Speaker 3>we can show or is pretty do that's I don't

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<v Speaker 3>care how rare and that and that like every other

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<v Speaker 3>things documented pretty you know, well pretty well documented, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>like especially if you're now all that you're talking, dont

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<v Speaker 3>all that size to not have any evidence at all,

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<v Speaker 3>like you know, like physical that we can point out,

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<v Speaker 3>like remains, like you know, specimen type things. It's like that, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>that's bizarre.

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<v Speaker 1>But you don't think it's more likely that we perceive

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<v Speaker 1>nature a certain way, given the nature of human perception

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<v Speaker 1>in the human psyche, and that these exact beliefs we

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<v Speaker 1>have ascribed to all these other animals, and they fell

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<v Speaker 1>away one by one, you know, over the centuries upon discovery.

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<v Speaker 1>But this one that has not yet been officially recognized,

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<v Speaker 1>is indeed the holdout that actually does have all those abilities,

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<v Speaker 1>you can very well argue that, Yeah, but if you

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<v Speaker 1>were trying to make a prediction and going, well, we

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<v Speaker 1>thought that about this, but then we learned that, and

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<v Speaker 1>we thought that about this, but then we learned that,

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<v Speaker 1>and you know, after a couple dozen examples, you'd go, well,

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<v Speaker 1>if I were a betting man, I'd think, yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>think this, but one day we're going to learn earn

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<v Speaker 1>that instead.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I get that. I mean that's a pretty

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<v Speaker 3>easy concept of grass. I'm just saying that. But we

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<v Speaker 3>haven't there is it hasn't happened. Like that's freaking weird, dude,

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<v Speaker 3>like that, there's nothing that we can't put to anything.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, you're talking about it, dude. I've seen one

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<v Speaker 3>that was like fifteen hundred pounds. It's huge, and like

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<v Speaker 3>how that thing stays hidden? I mean I can see

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<v Speaker 3>like people see them, Yeah, people see them, but for

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00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:27.519
<v Speaker 3>nothing to come in like concrete, we have just the

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<v Speaker 3>powers and film that's think maybe the Freeman's you know

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00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.840
<v Speaker 3>that not that quality, but there's very there's so little

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00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.360
<v Speaker 3>quality footage. I mean, it's like it's pretty bizarre to

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00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:38.960
<v Speaker 3>like that we just don't have more.

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<v Speaker 1>I really don't think it is, though, because you know

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00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:45.639
<v Speaker 1>there there are so many other examples that fit that model.

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<v Speaker 1>Until people really get involved and invested.

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<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

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00:14:53.320 --> 00:15:01.480
<v Speaker 2>Bobo will be right back after these messages. Boba, are

305
00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:03.279
<v Speaker 2>you starting to notice thinning hair?

306
00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:04.320
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307
00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:10.159
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308
00:15:10.159 --> 00:15:13.320
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00:15:13.360 --> 00:15:17.360
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311
00:15:19.799 --> 00:15:22.440
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312
00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:24.159
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00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:27.240
<v Speaker 4>That'd be nice having a fresh fall crop to harvest.

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315
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316
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<v Speaker 3>Yep, doctors trust this stuff. It's been clinically proven.

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00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:44.720
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319
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.519
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320
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321
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322
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323
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328
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329
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335
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338
00:16:44.080 --> 00:16:46.159
<v Speaker 1>restrictions and important safety information.

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00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:52.519
<v Speaker 3>Show me the last large, large, huge mammal apex type

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00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.879
<v Speaker 3>animal that we a's global distribution that has not been

341
00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:58.279
<v Speaker 3>anything like nothing concrete on.

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00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:01.679
<v Speaker 1>If you pick a category like you mentioned images like well.

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00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.000
<v Speaker 1>When so Young Park got involved pursuing the Siberian tiger

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<v Speaker 1>in the nineties, there was less than one hour of

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00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.200
<v Speaker 1>footage of Siberian tigers in the wild that had been

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00:17:11.200 --> 00:17:13.480
<v Speaker 1>collected before he got involved. I mean, so there's an

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00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.519
<v Speaker 1>example of very really, how do people with cameras were equipped?

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<v Speaker 1>And you're talking like as soon as the Civil Union.

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<v Speaker 3>Fell and like there's like Western stuff coming into more

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00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:24.039
<v Speaker 3>technology and this and that and more money if people haven't,

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00:17:24.359 --> 00:17:26.200
<v Speaker 3>but prior to that, dude, like who who is going

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<v Speaker 3>to document photographically where those leopards were? I mean, very

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<v Speaker 3>like there's some nomadic herdsman and you know, like mountaineering folks,

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<v Speaker 3>Like there's hardly compared to like where sasquatches and Yawie's

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<v Speaker 3>and other things just sting with all the cell phones.

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<v Speaker 3>I know, cell phones sucked for cameras, but there's still

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<v Speaker 3>so I mean, it's it's really hard to explain that

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<v Speaker 3>there's nothing.

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<v Speaker 1>But even your own experiences should give you those answers,

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00:17:53.079 --> 00:17:55.440
<v Speaker 1>because like you you did see one with a thermal

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<v Speaker 1>imager and you didn't find it any easier to record

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<v Speaker 1>than la person would.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, yeah, I didn't have a recording capability, But.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactly like or you you mentioned like, oh, look at

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<v Speaker 1>all the guns, Well what would you have used to

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<v Speaker 1>bring down a fifteen hundred pound animal on a camping trip.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure a shot prod. I could use the

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<v Speaker 3>twenty two and.

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<v Speaker 2>Work to get back to my original point squatch Fest

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<v Speaker 2>being intergalactic. Now it makes as much sense to me

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<v Speaker 2>as having like a bear conference and UFO conference combined

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<v Speaker 2>into one.

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<v Speaker 3>I think sasquattions come from Earth and all that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 3>they're they've evolved, But I just wonder how much genetic

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<v Speaker 3>genetic manipulation's happened to humans over the years, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>I mean by then, I'm like, are whatever I mean,

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00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.039
<v Speaker 3>I don't know about manipulation, but yeah, I guess manipulation.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I listen to a lot of I listen

379
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<v Speaker 3>to a lot of weird podcasts and interviews and stuff,

380
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<v Speaker 3>so like, yeah, I obviously get some some bad info

381
00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:51.400
<v Speaker 3>getting mixed in there, or a lot of bad info

382
00:18:51.559 --> 00:18:55.599
<v Speaker 3>or confused or half ached info or partially true, partially

383
00:18:55.640 --> 00:18:57.759
<v Speaker 3>not or whatever. I mean. But it's just I've heard

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00:18:57.759 --> 00:19:00.839
<v Speaker 3>some of like people that are pretty well spoken and like, well,

385
00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:02.759
<v Speaker 3>this doesn't make sense here, this doesn't make sense their

386
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:07.200
<v Speaker 3>evolutionary like brain size and how fast certain things developed,

387
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:12.440
<v Speaker 3>and like historical texts with you know, referring to like well,

388
00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.759
<v Speaker 3>like whether it be angels or demons or like a

389
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:17.640
<v Speaker 3>lot of it apply. It seems like it's applying to

390
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:21.920
<v Speaker 3>like that whole ancient alien sector, like you know, like

391
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:24.160
<v Speaker 3>this seems like these whatever these entities are like and

392
00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.079
<v Speaker 3>these ships they've been around for a long time, thousands

393
00:19:27.119 --> 00:19:29.319
<v Speaker 3>of years before we did nuclear tests.

394
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:31.759
<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess we'll see. But in the meantime, I

395
00:19:31.799 --> 00:19:33.759
<v Speaker 2>think that the best way to approach the sasquatch thing

396
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.680
<v Speaker 2>is through amateur wildlife biologists, like from Lens an amateur

397
00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.160
<v Speaker 2>wildlife biologists Lens. I think we will learn the most

398
00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:42.920
<v Speaker 2>about the animals that way.

399
00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:44.920
<v Speaker 3>I agree with that one hundred per cent. I don't

400
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:47.200
<v Speaker 3>think we could. I just don't think it's like approach

401
00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.839
<v Speaker 3>to people that like go like, well, there's some weird

402
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.279
<v Speaker 3>stuff about these things. I've seen this in that it's

403
00:19:53.319 --> 00:19:55.400
<v Speaker 3>like Tyler Dude's seen the ones seen a small one

404
00:19:55.400 --> 00:19:58.079
<v Speaker 3>and a big one holding white orbs in their hands.

405
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Don't know anything about it. I've I haven't, And I

406
00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:04.359
<v Speaker 2>think that's where the last hold it is. If other

407
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:09.079
<v Speaker 2>people can be convinced of seemingly ridiculous things being real,

408
00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.599
<v Speaker 2>And I must say and mind you, my life is

409
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:16.240
<v Speaker 2>full of ridiculous things like chock full. But if other people,

410
00:20:16.359 --> 00:20:19.279
<v Speaker 2>if that's what it took for other people to believe

411
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:21.640
<v Speaker 2>that stuff, then I think it's fair to say that

412
00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:24.720
<v Speaker 2>I need that to You know, I've seen enough, I've

413
00:20:24.759 --> 00:20:27.920
<v Speaker 2>done enough to be completely confident sasquatches are real animals,

414
00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:32.200
<v Speaker 2>and I've never once, never once have seen or heard

415
00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:35.480
<v Speaker 2>or anything like that, anything that would make me think

416
00:20:35.519 --> 00:20:37.920
<v Speaker 2>that they're anything else but perfectly normal animals. And to

417
00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:40.720
<v Speaker 2>have other people say that, you know, I've been I've

418
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:42.559
<v Speaker 2>told you lots of times. I've been accused of being

419
00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:46.039
<v Speaker 2>closed minded. I've been accused of being spiritually constipated, which

420
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:49.559
<v Speaker 2>is an odd thing. I've been accused of all sorts

421
00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:53.319
<v Speaker 2>of ridiculous things by people. And that's why that the

422
00:20:53.319 --> 00:20:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot people have not reached out to me and or

423
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.400
<v Speaker 2>I've ignored their pleads and all that sort of stuff.

424
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:05.279
<v Speaker 2>But if their experience is what turned them, then why

425
00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.480
<v Speaker 2>do not Why do I not get that same courtesy

426
00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:12.039
<v Speaker 2>about my own experience? Is my thought. You know, I

427
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:14.920
<v Speaker 2>am advocating for the discovery of the species in order

428
00:21:14.920 --> 00:21:17.079
<v Speaker 2>to find out what's really going on, and I strongly

429
00:21:17.119 --> 00:21:20.960
<v Speaker 2>suspect that I'm right, just like everybody else strongly suspects

430
00:21:20.960 --> 00:21:24.599
<v Speaker 2>that they're right. Again, same courtesy is being it should

431
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 2>be extended to me as what they expect me to

432
00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:31.079
<v Speaker 2>extend to them. You know, of course, I think I'm right,

433
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.240
<v Speaker 2>just like everybody thinks they're right. And there's a whole

434
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.039
<v Speaker 2>lot that I don't know, and I'm right about that too.

435
00:21:36.039 --> 00:21:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I also don't.

436
00:21:36.559 --> 00:21:39.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't think i'm right. I just I'm still wide open.

437
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:42.640
<v Speaker 2>I'm just saying that it makes it. I don't think

438
00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:46.079
<v Speaker 2>that the UFO thing is necessary, because it's not necessary

439
00:21:46.119 --> 00:21:49.519
<v Speaker 2>for a bare biology convention either. But then whatever, but

440
00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:51.519
<v Speaker 2>more people are coming in, more weird people. It's gonna

441
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>be great. It's gonna be great. I'm looking forward to

442
00:21:53.240 --> 00:21:55.079
<v Speaker 2>the job. I just I'm looking forward to the day

443
00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:57.000
<v Speaker 2>when we can separate those two things.

444
00:21:57.559 --> 00:21:59.279
<v Speaker 3>I don't want to complain. I wouldn't want to combine

445
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:00.960
<v Speaker 3>the two, and comp's.

446
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.119
<v Speaker 2>Part of the quandary that we're in right now is

447
00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:05.720
<v Speaker 2>because of things like in search of and stuff piling

448
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:09.200
<v Speaker 2>off like crystal skulls in Atlantis and Bigfoot. Well, I

449
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:12.319
<v Speaker 2>guess at that point it belonged in that realm, but No,

450
00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:13.279
<v Speaker 2>it didn't even belonging there.

451
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:15.079
<v Speaker 3>Then about provin mummies.

452
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:17.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know anything about them, and I know that

453
00:22:17.240 --> 00:22:19.279
<v Speaker 2>some of the work that's been done has been pretty misleading,

454
00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:21.640
<v Speaker 2>but I just don't don't know. I don't care. I

455
00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:24.599
<v Speaker 2>don't look into it, but I do care about soundsquatch stuff,

456
00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:26.119
<v Speaker 2>and I spent a lot of time looking into that.

457
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.160
<v Speaker 3>What do you think about that? The proven mummies? I mean,

458
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:32.119
<v Speaker 3>there's some pretty people. I was shocked to hear like

459
00:22:32.359 --> 00:22:34.880
<v Speaker 3>legit people saying like, well, that these things are real.

460
00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Like did you watch Jesse Michael's documentary about it?

461
00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.640
<v Speaker 3>No, but I heard him talk about it. Yeah, listen,

462
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:42.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm listening to him talk about it a few times.

463
00:22:42.759 --> 00:22:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's his documentary was fascinating. But it's funny because

464
00:22:46.200 --> 00:22:48.920
<v Speaker 1>he came to mind. I've heard him many times. He's like, no,

465
00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:51.319
<v Speaker 1>this is real. It's not some nonsense like Bigfoot.

466
00:22:51.920 --> 00:22:53.839
<v Speaker 3>He said that. I was pissed exactly.

467
00:22:53.960 --> 00:22:57.160
<v Speaker 1>Well, so, in the same way that there's plenty of

468
00:22:57.240 --> 00:23:00.519
<v Speaker 1>us who think like there should not be a cross pollination,

469
00:23:01.119 --> 00:23:03.680
<v Speaker 1>there's no shortage of UFO people who are like, oh God,

470
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.160
<v Speaker 1>don't cross pollinate with this, with that Bigfoot nonsense, you know.

471
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:09.640
<v Speaker 3>And I think that's I think that's like, that's wrong.

472
00:23:09.720 --> 00:23:13.759
<v Speaker 3>I mean yeah, I mean I don't know, it's like,

473
00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:16.640
<v Speaker 3>what's his name? I loved I loved this series until

474
00:23:16.640 --> 00:23:18.400
<v Speaker 3>he did the big Foot one, and I still like

475
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:18.799
<v Speaker 3>it a lot.

476
00:23:19.160 --> 00:23:20.079
<v Speaker 1>The Wi Files.

477
00:23:20.400 --> 00:23:23.720
<v Speaker 3>Yes, there's on big Foot. I was like, now after

478
00:23:23.799 --> 00:23:25.160
<v Speaker 3>everything else they said in a question.

479
00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:28.359
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I've had that experience many times where I'll, you know,

480
00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:32.440
<v Speaker 1>for entertainment purposes, watch or listen to some like catch

481
00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:36.039
<v Speaker 1>all podcast or YouTube channel, and it is mostly talking

482
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:39.359
<v Speaker 1>about things that I'm unfamiliar with, right, Oh, that's really interesting.

483
00:23:39.400 --> 00:23:41.519
<v Speaker 1>And then they will get to something like the Sasquatch,

484
00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:43.960
<v Speaker 1>and they'll get so many things factually wrong. And it

485
00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:46.920
<v Speaker 1>can be several things like, you know, the date of

486
00:23:47.000 --> 00:23:49.759
<v Speaker 1>the Patterson film, like things that are easily googleable that

487
00:23:49.799 --> 00:23:53.839
<v Speaker 1>are not really something that requires interpretation or a background

488
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 1>in a particular you know, discipline, and they'll get that

489
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.720
<v Speaker 1>stuff wrong, and I'm like, oh, so they're probably equally

490
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:03.279
<v Speaker 1>lacks about all these other subjects that I just didn't

491
00:24:03.359 --> 00:24:04.160
<v Speaker 1>know anything about.

492
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:07.079
<v Speaker 3>That's exactly That's why I was like, I s so

493
00:24:07.200 --> 00:24:08.839
<v Speaker 3>disappointed when I heard that. I was like when Rugg

494
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:11.240
<v Speaker 3>and flipped on Bigfoot. I was like, oh, man, like

495
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:15.240
<v Speaker 3>they keeps talking smack on a NonStop. It's like, Dade,

496
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.839
<v Speaker 3>it just makes you, you know, like, if you're that

497
00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:21.319
<v Speaker 3>wrong on that, like and like and you know so

498
00:24:21.519 --> 00:24:23.960
<v Speaker 3>out and about it, that's a whole different thing saying

499
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:26.079
<v Speaker 3>like I don't think that's I don't think that's correct.

500
00:24:26.079 --> 00:24:27.400
<v Speaker 3>But you know, we'll see.

501
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:30.000
<v Speaker 1>To Cliff's point, I think a big part of the

502
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.680
<v Speaker 1>problem is that for anybody who wades into this subject,

503
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:34.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, there was a point in time when they

504
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:36.160
<v Speaker 1>would wade into it and they would be met with

505
00:24:36.359 --> 00:24:42.279
<v Speaker 1>mostly very grounded information because it was being presented aggregated

506
00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:45.480
<v Speaker 1>sort of like curated by grounded people like John Green,

507
00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and you know, the few talking heads that would be

508
00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.200
<v Speaker 1>on an episode of In Search of would be you know,

509
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.160
<v Speaker 1>John Green, Grover Krantz, and then a handful of witnesses

510
00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:56.319
<v Speaker 1>that they probably provide, you know, I'm sure Green was

511
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.279
<v Speaker 1>the one who was providing witnesses for those things, And

512
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:02.880
<v Speaker 1>so mostly what you'd be met with was, like, you know,

513
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.920
<v Speaker 1>outside of the fact that there's supposedly an undiscovered ape

514
00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:08.880
<v Speaker 1>in North America, like, it's all fairly grounded and believable.

515
00:25:09.319 --> 00:25:12.359
<v Speaker 1>But now it is that grand unified theory of weirdness

516
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 1>where the sasquatch is like anything and everything under the sun,

517
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.160
<v Speaker 1>and it has every metaphysical power and supernatural ability you

518
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.720
<v Speaker 1>can throw at it, and it's associated with you know,

519
00:25:21.799 --> 00:25:24.960
<v Speaker 1>ancient civilizations and aliens and and so it's no wonder

520
00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:28.480
<v Speaker 1>that when people do dip a toe into it, like

521
00:25:28.839 --> 00:25:30.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, I know Joe Rogan's been looking into it

522
00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.680
<v Speaker 1>for years, but people of that sort, you know, they're like,

523
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:35.759
<v Speaker 1>oh yeah, man, I looked at that for five minutes,

524
00:25:35.799 --> 00:25:39.359
<v Speaker 1>and it's insane. It's all nonsense because they can't be

525
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.440
<v Speaker 1>expected to have the time or discernment to go, Hey,

526
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:44.440
<v Speaker 1>just trust me, if you weed through the ninety nine

527
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:48.319
<v Speaker 1>percent of bullshit, you'll find good stuff. Just trust me, bro,

528
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:51.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, right. We try to do our best, or

529
00:25:51.480 --> 00:25:53.160
<v Speaker 1>I try to do my best in like writing a

530
00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 1>book or what I say on podcast, but it's like,

531
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:58.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're a drop and a bucket of insane

532
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:00.359
<v Speaker 1>or we're dropping an ocean of insaneanity.

533
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:03.680
<v Speaker 2>For the most part, the tact I take, like the

534
00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:06.960
<v Speaker 2>direction I go is that I can only who has

535
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.319
<v Speaker 2>time for more than one thing? Right, Really, at the

536
00:26:09.400 --> 00:26:10.440
<v Speaker 2>end of the day, I know, I'm kind of a

537
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.240
<v Speaker 2>generalist and a lot for a lot of different things.

538
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:14.839
<v Speaker 2>But Sasquatch is my gig, you know, like that's the

539
00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:17.319
<v Speaker 2>one thing that I kind of know something about, you know,

540
00:26:17.960 --> 00:26:20.839
<v Speaker 2>besides you know, playing guitar or something like that. Right,

541
00:26:21.079 --> 00:26:23.640
<v Speaker 2>But I don't have time for UFOs and ghosts. I

542
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:27.359
<v Speaker 2>don't have time for all that the demonology or you know,

543
00:26:27.519 --> 00:26:30.359
<v Speaker 2>Crystal skulls in Atlantis, and I haven't spent any time

544
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.200
<v Speaker 2>on it because I don't care. And I'm assuming most

545
00:26:33.200 --> 00:26:36.359
<v Speaker 2>other people are kind of like that. But some people

546
00:26:36.440 --> 00:26:38.920
<v Speaker 2>make a living and there's a market for the people

547
00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.799
<v Speaker 2>who are who act like they know something about everything.

548
00:26:42.279 --> 00:26:44.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's the one I do like when I those

549
00:26:44.680 --> 00:26:47.240
<v Speaker 3>guys that are generalists and they using this big Foot

550
00:26:47.279 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 3>excerpts from Like, there's some guys that know their stuff,

551
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:50.400
<v Speaker 3>like Ken Gearhart.

552
00:26:50.720 --> 00:26:54.039
<v Speaker 2>Ken Gearhart is a great example of a generalist who

553
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:56.160
<v Speaker 2>knows a lot about a lot of different things.

554
00:26:56.599 --> 00:26:58.599
<v Speaker 3>Right. There's a lot of other.

555
00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 2>Generalists that are just uh, especially the paranormal generalists who

556
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:07.200
<v Speaker 2>are trying like the Grand unification theory of paranormality or whatever.

557
00:27:07.519 --> 00:27:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Like those people they're coming from a very different place,

558
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:13.319
<v Speaker 2>very and of course they're there. I think that their

559
00:27:13.359 --> 00:27:18.200
<v Speaker 2>information pools are are kind of vustly poisoned, essentially that

560
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:21.279
<v Speaker 2>I don't think they are familiar with the John Green books.

561
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:23.039
<v Speaker 2>For example. They might they might know who John Green

562
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:25.599
<v Speaker 2>is and feel like they've done their homework, but I

563
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:28.240
<v Speaker 2>doubt they've read them. You know, I read them very thoroughly,

564
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:31.519
<v Speaker 2>or certainly not multiple times. Because they're getting their sources

565
00:27:31.519 --> 00:27:35.160
<v Speaker 2>from other places like Lapsterritis or somewhere like that, because

566
00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:38.920
<v Speaker 2>that's what they're drawn towards. They're drawn that direction, so

567
00:27:38.960 --> 00:27:42.160
<v Speaker 2>that's their primary sources. Instead of going to the actual

568
00:27:42.160 --> 00:27:45.200
<v Speaker 2>primary sources of the field, they're going for the places

569
00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:50.079
<v Speaker 2>that overlap and then they can access those kinds of resources.

570
00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:53.200
<v Speaker 2>I can't blame somebody for being so wrong about the

571
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.400
<v Speaker 2>Patterson Gimblin film date. If their whole gig is I

572
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:58.480
<v Speaker 2>don't know what pruvi and mummies or whatever you said earlier,

573
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:00.720
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter, Like that's not what they do. I

574
00:28:00.759 --> 00:28:04.759
<v Speaker 2>don't expect them to be insanely accurate, you know. Where

575
00:28:04.799 --> 00:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>Whereas if you know, somebody has a bigfoot blog or

576
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.640
<v Speaker 2>a podcast or something, I do expect a little bit

577
00:28:09.640 --> 00:28:11.880
<v Speaker 2>more out of them, I think, But I don't know.

578
00:28:12.119 --> 00:28:14.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't know because I don't might I might be

579
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.279
<v Speaker 2>interested slightly in UFOs, I might have seen a couple

580
00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:18.680
<v Speaker 2>of them or something, but I don't care. At the

581
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.119
<v Speaker 2>end of the day, it's cool, it's neat, but I

582
00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:23.119
<v Speaker 2>don't care. I'm not an expert on I'm not going

583
00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:23.680
<v Speaker 2>to pretend to be.

584
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:24.480
<v Speaker 3>But I don't know.

585
00:28:24.480 --> 00:28:27.240
<v Speaker 2>I just don't see. I just don't see the overlap. Certainly,

586
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:29.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of different conferences that I speak at have

587
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:33.400
<v Speaker 2>the paranormal element represented, and I'm looking forward to the

588
00:28:33.440 --> 00:28:36.319
<v Speaker 2>day that we can go to a Bigfoot conference and

589
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:39.160
<v Speaker 2>learn about the wildlife biology behind it, just like one

590
00:28:39.160 --> 00:28:41.799
<v Speaker 2>would expect by going to a wolf conference or a

591
00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:45.920
<v Speaker 2>wolverine conference, or a bear conference or any of those

592
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.359
<v Speaker 2>other perfectly normal animals. So I think that's my whole thing.

593
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:55.039
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.

594
00:28:55.279 --> 00:29:04.480
<v Speaker 2>Will be right back after these messages. As doctor Meldrem

595
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.160
<v Speaker 2>and I spoke about back in June, it's like, if

596
00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 2>not us who you know, like, if our voices in

597
00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:14.200
<v Speaker 2>the field are not present, all they're going to get

598
00:29:14.240 --> 00:29:17.599
<v Speaker 2>is the wacky stuff and then does that do any

599
00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:20.119
<v Speaker 2>damage to the subject And the answer is probably yes.

600
00:29:20.400 --> 00:29:23.279
<v Speaker 2>But at the same time, maybe my time is best

601
00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.039
<v Speaker 2>spent elsewhere, you know, like on the podcast for example.

602
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:28.160
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what I was going to say, is that

603
00:29:28.200 --> 00:29:31.119
<v Speaker 1>it is a different time I think because I used

604
00:29:31.160 --> 00:29:32.920
<v Speaker 1>to think that too. It's like, well, if I don't

605
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.480
<v Speaker 1>go speak there, then an ecologically or biologically grounded point

606
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:38.119
<v Speaker 1>of view is not going to be on the table.

607
00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:40.720
<v Speaker 1>And so am I obligated to do that. But then

608
00:29:40.759 --> 00:29:43.319
<v Speaker 1>at the same time, while in this world of interconnectivity,

609
00:29:43.359 --> 00:29:46.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like, well, we can talk on this podcast every

610
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:48.799
<v Speaker 1>week twice a week, you know, for regular listeners and

611
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 1>our members, and then you know, I wrote a book

612
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:54.279
<v Speaker 1>and put that out there that's accessible, you know, and

613
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:57.799
<v Speaker 1>so it's like, well, that's that's me putting that perspective

614
00:29:57.799 --> 00:30:00.200
<v Speaker 1>out into the world. It doesn't necessarily mean I have

615
00:30:00.240 --> 00:30:04.079
<v Speaker 1>to participate in every single event that extends an invite

616
00:30:04.119 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 1>if it doesn't make sense, because you know, I'm not

617
00:30:07.200 --> 00:30:10.079
<v Speaker 1>I don't necessarily think that it reaches as many people.

618
00:30:10.279 --> 00:30:12.720
<v Speaker 1>And you know, the great thing about this podcast or

619
00:30:12.759 --> 00:30:16.160
<v Speaker 1>other podcast, it's like, if you're a regular listener like

620
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:18.640
<v Speaker 1>it's free, you know. Yeah, you have to skip through

621
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:22.240
<v Speaker 1>some ads. That's the only price of admission, you know,

622
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:23.880
<v Speaker 1>And you can listen to it on your own time

623
00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and those kind of things. And it's permanent. It's on

624
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:28.799
<v Speaker 1>the internet forever for as long as the Internet shall

625
00:30:28.839 --> 00:30:31.680
<v Speaker 1>exist in this form or other forms that carry into

626
00:30:31.680 --> 00:30:32.079
<v Speaker 1>the future.

627
00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:33.599
<v Speaker 2>Versus like a.

628
00:30:33.640 --> 00:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Lot of times at an event, you know, there's ten speakers.

629
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm somewhere in the middle, and I just know that, like,

630
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.480
<v Speaker 1>these people are exhausted because they've heard a lot of

631
00:30:42.839 --> 00:30:44.640
<v Speaker 1>They've had a lot of information thrown at them, and

632
00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:48.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, this room full of people, that's a limited number.

633
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:50.440
<v Speaker 1>They're going to forget eighty five percent of what I

634
00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.319
<v Speaker 1>said by the time their butts get out of the

635
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:55.279
<v Speaker 1>seats to take a break between me and the next speaker,

636
00:30:55.799 --> 00:30:58.519
<v Speaker 1>and they can't re access it because it's not online

637
00:30:58.519 --> 00:31:00.759
<v Speaker 1>and accessible. So I do think that, you know, this

638
00:31:00.839 --> 00:31:03.240
<v Speaker 1>has definitely supplanted that and taken the place of that

639
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:06.079
<v Speaker 1>and serves that purpose. And this is more like a

640
00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:08.920
<v Speaker 1>retail store in the sense that like, if you're interested,

641
00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:10.720
<v Speaker 1>you can walk in the front door. We've got a

642
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 1>sign out front, you know what we offer if you're

643
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>interested in that perspective, come on in, hang out. You know,

644
00:31:16.440 --> 00:31:19.359
<v Speaker 1>at an event, very often you are being sort of

645
00:31:19.400 --> 00:31:22.119
<v Speaker 1>like thrust in front of people that might not be

646
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>there to hear. They might be there to hear someone

647
00:31:24.480 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>with a totally diametrically opposed perspective, and that's totally fine,

648
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 1>that's great, But at the same time, it's like, well,

649
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>how much does that benefit you or them? You know,

650
00:31:33.759 --> 00:31:36.240
<v Speaker 1>that makes you sort of like the salesman now, Like

651
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:39.039
<v Speaker 1>now you're going door to door, knocking and saying, hey,

652
00:31:39.039 --> 00:31:41.279
<v Speaker 1>can I interest you in what I got? You know,

653
00:31:41.519 --> 00:31:43.960
<v Speaker 1>at most I don't like that. I don't like when

654
00:31:43.960 --> 00:31:46.000
<v Speaker 1>people do that to me. I've had jobs where I

655
00:31:46.039 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>was in outbound sales and I hated it. Whereas like

656
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.599
<v Speaker 1>if you worked in retail, like if I worked in

657
00:31:50.640 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 1>a guitar store, I love guitars, I'll just hang out

658
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:55.440
<v Speaker 1>here if you're interested in one, you can walk in

659
00:31:55.759 --> 00:31:57.200
<v Speaker 1>if you go, hey, man, what do you think about

660
00:31:57.240 --> 00:31:59.480
<v Speaker 1>this piece of gear? Like, oh, I'm happy to talk

661
00:31:59.519 --> 00:32:02.240
<v Speaker 1>about what I like or what might work for you,

662
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:04.240
<v Speaker 1>but I'm not going to go knock on your door

663
00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 1>and say, hey, can I interest you in picking up

664
00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:08.519
<v Speaker 1>a guitar. You know it's and that can be what

665
00:32:08.559 --> 00:32:10.039
<v Speaker 1>those big conferences are.

666
00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:12.319
<v Speaker 2>Like, you know what I don't like is that the

667
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:16.079
<v Speaker 2>being sharing the same stage with that kind of like

668
00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:20.519
<v Speaker 2>such a variety of perspectives I find is confusing to

669
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:24.079
<v Speaker 2>the audience and to delay people. That's like, Oh, I

670
00:32:24.440 --> 00:32:25.960
<v Speaker 2>like that TV show. I'm going to come in and

671
00:32:26.000 --> 00:32:27.400
<v Speaker 2>listen to what they have to say. I want to

672
00:32:27.480 --> 00:32:29.559
<v Speaker 2>learn a little bit about bigfoot, what the experts have

673
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:31.599
<v Speaker 2>to say about them, right and they And I had

674
00:32:31.599 --> 00:32:33.240
<v Speaker 2>one lady come up to my table at a job

675
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:36.480
<v Speaker 2>this year and she said, but you're saying that there

676
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:39.720
<v Speaker 2>is an animal. This other person is saying that they're this,

677
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:42.200
<v Speaker 2>and and that's another person said that they're this, And like,

678
00:32:42.240 --> 00:32:43.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what to think. I don't know what

679
00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:46.279
<v Speaker 2>And I just said, hey, you know what, look at

680
00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:49.200
<v Speaker 2>the evidence of what everybody's putting forth. What seems to

681
00:32:49.240 --> 00:32:52.799
<v Speaker 2>be the most logical to you? What what is making

682
00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the fewest assumptions, what jibes with your worldview? And you

683
00:32:56.920 --> 00:32:58.480
<v Speaker 2>decide I'm not going to tell you what to think.

684
00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:00.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm just I'm just I'm telling you what i'm finding

685
00:33:01.240 --> 00:33:04.920
<v Speaker 2>and the other people are doing maybe something similar, or

686
00:33:04.960 --> 00:33:06.640
<v Speaker 2>maybe they're telling you what to think. You would make

687
00:33:06.680 --> 00:33:09.720
<v Speaker 2>the decision way way what we've all shared and you

688
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:11.960
<v Speaker 2>come to the decision of what you think is going on.

689
00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.359
<v Speaker 2>Because all my presentations, I'm just saying, well, this is

690
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:18.160
<v Speaker 2>what i'm finding, Look what I found, Look at this,

691
00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:21.000
<v Speaker 2>and this is what I'm how and I'm interpreting it.

692
00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:23.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm not telling you what these things are, what they're doing,

693
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:25.880
<v Speaker 2>or you know that kind of stuff. I'm just saying that, like,

694
00:33:25.920 --> 00:33:28.279
<v Speaker 2>this is what I find. But this poor lady, I remember,

695
00:33:28.279 --> 00:33:30.559
<v Speaker 2>she was very distraught because she had two or three

696
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:33.720
<v Speaker 2>different views on sasquatch presented to her by what she

697
00:33:33.839 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 2>thought were experts, and what are you supposed to do

698
00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:36.400
<v Speaker 2>with that?

699
00:33:36.559 --> 00:33:36.720
<v Speaker 3>Right?

700
00:33:36.839 --> 00:33:39.519
<v Speaker 2>And I felt bad for her. So and if I

701
00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:42.000
<v Speaker 2>don't know, I'm feeling this time to shift gears a

702
00:33:42.039 --> 00:33:44.880
<v Speaker 2>little bit in my own professional life, I think, and

703
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:48.160
<v Speaker 2>I feel like I've been saddled with a certain level

704
00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:50.759
<v Speaker 2>of responsibility by doctor Jeff Meldrum, of course, you know,

705
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:53.440
<v Speaker 2>with him leaving me an entire collection, and I think

706
00:33:53.480 --> 00:33:55.799
<v Speaker 2>it's time to up my game a little bit. Maybe,

707
00:33:55.839 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 2>And because I think that, I think Darby's going to

708
00:33:58.359 --> 00:33:59.680
<v Speaker 2>do it in the next couple of years. I think

709
00:33:59.720 --> 00:34:01.559
<v Speaker 2>I think the mystery is going to be done in

710
00:34:01.599 --> 00:34:04.599
<v Speaker 2>the next five or eight years probably, and then what

711
00:34:05.319 --> 00:34:07.720
<v Speaker 2>well I want to be a part of it, still, right,

712
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:11.079
<v Speaker 2>the better I present myself, the higher the chance is

713
00:34:11.079 --> 00:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>going to be that I can continue participating and learning

714
00:34:13.480 --> 00:34:14.119
<v Speaker 2>about the animals.

715
00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm not saying that you should be like I'm just

716
00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:20.519
<v Speaker 3>saying like you should be like so contemptuous sounding when

717
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:23.400
<v Speaker 3>you when you condemn the people that think there's more

718
00:34:23.440 --> 00:34:28.840
<v Speaker 3>to Bigfoot than just straight up this undiscovered primate. Maybe

719
00:34:29.280 --> 00:34:31.119
<v Speaker 3>I don't think we're contemptuous as much.

720
00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, at least from my perspective. I'm just trying to

721
00:34:33.840 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 1>offer an alternative perspective that is generous.

722
00:34:38.280 --> 00:34:40.199
<v Speaker 3>Well, that sounds more contemptuous for sure.

723
00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:43.280
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well I am, I absolutely am. Matt has always

724
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.199
<v Speaker 2>been more generous to ridiculous points of view than I am.

725
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:50.679
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely there you go again, Cliff, Well, you.

726
00:34:50.639 --> 00:34:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Know, to beat this example to death, but maybe there's

727
00:34:53.119 --> 00:34:55.360
<v Speaker 1>new listeners that haven't heard it. Like, you know, the

728
00:34:55.400 --> 00:34:58.000
<v Speaker 1>way that you experience the world, there is a validity

729
00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:00.599
<v Speaker 1>to that experience. And so the simplest example that I

730
00:35:00.719 --> 00:35:04.400
<v Speaker 1>always use in presentations and public talks is to say, like,

731
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:08.320
<v Speaker 1>you experience the Sun as it moves around you from

732
00:35:08.400 --> 00:35:13.679
<v Speaker 1>your perspective. So any description from across time that you

733
00:35:13.719 --> 00:35:16.519
<v Speaker 1>know the Earth is the center of the Solar system,

734
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:20.199
<v Speaker 1>of the galaxy or the universe is completely defensible, because

735
00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 1>if you were to go outside and stand and watch

736
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:25.119
<v Speaker 1>the movement of the Sun, it would come up one

737
00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:27.000
<v Speaker 1>side of you and go up above and around and

738
00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:29.360
<v Speaker 1>down the other side of you. And so that is

739
00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:34.840
<v Speaker 1>a phenomenologically authentic description of the movement of heavenly bodies.

740
00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:39.760
<v Speaker 1>And so there's nothing inaccurate about that worldview, although it

741
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:42.480
<v Speaker 1>is not It does not have a one to one

742
00:35:42.559 --> 00:35:45.360
<v Speaker 1>relationship with objective reality. And it took us a very

743
00:35:45.400 --> 00:35:47.719
<v Speaker 1>long time to figure out that we're on a sphere,

744
00:35:48.239 --> 00:35:52.440
<v Speaker 1>a spinning sphere that rotates around orbits around the Sun.

745
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:54.800
<v Speaker 1>And so I think you can apply that same logic

746
00:35:54.880 --> 00:35:57.320
<v Speaker 1>to so many of these cases to say, like, I

747
00:35:57.400 --> 00:36:00.880
<v Speaker 1>understand that your experience was authentic. I do think that

748
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:03.039
<v Speaker 1>there's another way to look at the cause of that

749
00:36:03.119 --> 00:36:07.599
<v Speaker 1>experience or where that experience is being generated from, rather

750
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:10.880
<v Speaker 1>than saying that you know, a sasquatch with some supernatural

751
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.039
<v Speaker 1>abilities did that to you, that you had an authentic experience.

752
00:36:14.039 --> 00:36:20.440
<v Speaker 1>You're experiencing real psychological, physiological, neurological responses that are common

753
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 1>and universal, which is why people describe the same experience

754
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:28.159
<v Speaker 1>with other animals and in UFO encounters and during aparitional experiences,

755
00:36:28.199 --> 00:36:30.440
<v Speaker 1>on and on and on. But to say like that's

756
00:36:30.719 --> 00:36:33.559
<v Speaker 1>the most likely explanation is that that's common to the

757
00:36:33.599 --> 00:36:36.559
<v Speaker 1>human experience because it's happening within the human observer. And

758
00:36:36.639 --> 00:36:39.239
<v Speaker 1>so I'm not saying like those people are lying or

759
00:36:39.280 --> 00:36:41.559
<v Speaker 1>that they're wrong, or that they made up the story,

760
00:36:41.679 --> 00:36:44.079
<v Speaker 1>or that they're crazy or delusional, just trying to say, like,

761
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:46.840
<v Speaker 1>there is a reality to the experience, but maybe you're

762
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:50.119
<v Speaker 1>putting the onus in the wrong place, And here's another

763
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:53.000
<v Speaker 1>way to look at it, to reframe. Just like, no

764
00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:55.400
<v Speaker 1>one's lying when they say the sun revolves around them.

765
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.480
<v Speaker 1>You know they're not misleading anyone, and they're not crazy

766
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:03.079
<v Speaker 1>and delusional. It's like two shades of truth, experiential truth

767
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:07.079
<v Speaker 1>and objective truth, and they're both very very important, but

768
00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:10.119
<v Speaker 1>they do need to be sort of categorized as such

769
00:37:10.760 --> 00:37:12.840
<v Speaker 1>to say, like, well, what's going on here from an

770
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:16.480
<v Speaker 1>objective standpoint, because that matters to us in one part

771
00:37:16.519 --> 00:37:19.679
<v Speaker 1>of our endeavor and what's happening from an experiential standpoint,

772
00:37:19.719 --> 00:37:23.280
<v Speaker 1>because that's just as important, you know, because we're not objects,

773
00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:26.559
<v Speaker 1>we're subjects, so the subjective is important, but it has

774
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:29.360
<v Speaker 1>to be delineated. And I just think that that's an

775
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:31.440
<v Speaker 1>important thing to do with these cases too, rather than

776
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:33.719
<v Speaker 1>to go, yeah, well we've explained it with everything else.

777
00:37:33.760 --> 00:37:38.119
<v Speaker 1>But the sasquatch really is the shape shifting, mind reading,

778
00:37:38.679 --> 00:37:42.199
<v Speaker 1>moral judge that can mediate between the physical realm and

779
00:37:42.239 --> 00:37:43.119
<v Speaker 1>the other realm.

780
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:43.400
<v Speaker 3>You know.

781
00:37:44.280 --> 00:37:46.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and ridiculous points of view doesn't mean the person

782
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:51.880
<v Speaker 2>is lying or even wrong about what you know. Their interpretation,

783
00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.719
<v Speaker 2>I think is incorrect, but their observations may be valid,

784
00:37:54.760 --> 00:37:57.159
<v Speaker 2>and then there's nothing wrong with that. And I know

785
00:37:57.199 --> 00:37:59.360
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who think that way, and there's

786
00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:01.800
<v Speaker 2>nothing wrong with think in that way other than it's

787
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:06.920
<v Speaker 2>probably incorrect, you know. But when I hear, because I mean,

788
00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:09.320
<v Speaker 2>you've been told the same things. I'm sure I think

789
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:11.760
<v Speaker 2>all the listeners have who have dabbled in this at all.

790
00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I've been told that sasquatches are from outer space. I've

791
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:17.239
<v Speaker 2>been told that they're from inner space, whatever that means.

792
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:19.760
<v Speaker 2>I've been told that they're from other dimensions. I have

793
00:38:19.880 --> 00:38:23.280
<v Speaker 2>been told that they're from inside the hollow Earth. I

794
00:38:23.400 --> 00:38:26.159
<v Speaker 2>have been told that they're time travelers. I have been

795
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:29.840
<v Speaker 2>told that they that they're gods. I have been told

796
00:38:29.840 --> 00:38:32.239
<v Speaker 2>that they're devils. I have been told that they're angels.

797
00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:35.719
<v Speaker 2>I have been told that they're they're neutral beings. I've

798
00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:38.679
<v Speaker 2>been told that they're here to take away the glory

799
00:38:38.719 --> 00:38:42.800
<v Speaker 2>of Jesus. I have been told that, I mean, I

800
00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:44.920
<v Speaker 2>could go down, I can go on and on. And

801
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:47.199
<v Speaker 2>all of those things are under the umbrella of paranormal.

802
00:38:47.800 --> 00:38:51.119
<v Speaker 2>I don't believe any of them, certainly don't believe all

803
00:38:51.159 --> 00:38:56.000
<v Speaker 2>of them. But the model, the paranormal model, is not

804
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:00.679
<v Speaker 2>self congruent, you know. It's it's not something that you

805
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:02.599
<v Speaker 2>can hang your hat on. It's not even a thing.

806
00:39:03.039 --> 00:39:06.880
<v Speaker 2>It's all these different beliefs. I've been told that, oh,

807
00:39:06.880 --> 00:39:10.519
<v Speaker 2>they're earth spirits. There's another one that the yea, I

808
00:39:10.559 --> 00:39:13.119
<v Speaker 2>don't know. It goes on and on and on. Why

809
00:39:13.159 --> 00:39:15.760
<v Speaker 2>would I believe that they're paranormal when the paranormal doesn't

810
00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:18.159
<v Speaker 2>even agree with themselves. It seems that the only thing

811
00:39:18.159 --> 00:39:21.679
<v Speaker 2>that the paranormal people can agree on is that the

812
00:39:21.719 --> 00:39:26.000
<v Speaker 2>ape hypothesis is ridiculous and stupid, yes, and I don't

813
00:39:26.039 --> 00:39:27.719
<v Speaker 2>it seems to be the only one that like holds

814
00:39:27.719 --> 00:39:31.800
<v Speaker 2>together with any sort of cohesion. So I'm just going

815
00:39:31.800 --> 00:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>where my brain tells me to go and and not

816
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:40.199
<v Speaker 2>where a huge variety of people have told me that

817
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.760
<v Speaker 2>is true, you know. So I don't know. It just

818
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:46.239
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense to me because very few of those

819
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:49.639
<v Speaker 2>things sound logical to me, and none of them literally

820
00:39:49.679 --> 00:39:52.840
<v Speaker 2>none of them seems to be supported by what I

821
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:54.840
<v Speaker 2>see personally out in the woods.

822
00:39:55.320 --> 00:39:59.320
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that people that I find very trustworthy

823
00:39:59.519 --> 00:40:03.400
<v Speaker 3>and good character and judgment have had these experiences that

824
00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.360
<v Speaker 3>are freaking bizarre, and I don't know what the cause was,

825
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:11.039
<v Speaker 3>and some of it in conjunction with you know, Bigfoot,

826
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:13.559
<v Speaker 3>with other weird stuff like the orbs or whatnot. I mean,

827
00:40:13.960 --> 00:40:16.840
<v Speaker 3>there's just the fact that there's no physical evidence, like

828
00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:19.000
<v Speaker 3>remains that we know of that we can point to

829
00:40:20.639 --> 00:40:24.320
<v Speaker 3>from anywhere in the world. Is you know, just it's

830
00:40:24.559 --> 00:40:27.519
<v Speaker 3>it's bizarre, and I know you gotta say it's not,

831
00:40:27.639 --> 00:40:28.400
<v Speaker 3>but it is.

832
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:31.920
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it's explainable, But I honestly think, like

833
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:35.079
<v Speaker 1>if it came down to a decision tree where I was,

834
00:40:35.199 --> 00:40:37.960
<v Speaker 1>you know, like a gun to head decision. If it

835
00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:41.320
<v Speaker 1>was like, how do you explain the lack of any

836
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:45.960
<v Speaker 1>physical remains in spite of all these claimed experiences. To me,

837
00:40:46.079 --> 00:40:49.119
<v Speaker 1>the most likely answer would be like, well, they don't exist,

838
00:40:49.360 --> 00:40:55.159
<v Speaker 1>and we're having like a slew of psychological experiences. We're

839
00:40:55.159 --> 00:40:59.239
<v Speaker 1>having a slew of misidentifications and misinterpretations of the natural world.

840
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:04.119
<v Speaker 1>There's a slew of liars and fabricators. But despite all that,

841
00:41:04.159 --> 00:41:06.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, there's real stimuli out in the woods. I

842
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:08.920
<v Speaker 1>know that because I've heard it. You know, I've heard vocalizations.

843
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:12.360
<v Speaker 1>I've had seemingly like projectiles, stone at me rocks. I've

844
00:41:12.360 --> 00:41:15.599
<v Speaker 1>had this host of experiences that are consistent with the

845
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:20.440
<v Speaker 1>sasquatch phenomenon. But I think if all that continue to fail,

846
00:41:20.440 --> 00:41:23.840
<v Speaker 1>I got, well, maybe they just don't exist and I've

847
00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:26.199
<v Speaker 1>just been misinterpreting all this. I think that would be

848
00:41:26.239 --> 00:41:28.880
<v Speaker 1>more likely than going, yeah, well, they're just the shape

849
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.559
<v Speaker 1>shifting UFO writing metaphysical portal hoppers who can read my

850
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:34.199
<v Speaker 1>mind and they know I'm looking for them, and so

851
00:41:34.239 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 1>they'll never let me find Like, to me, if I

852
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.639
<v Speaker 1>had to choose that, I just think that, you know,

853
00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:43.159
<v Speaker 1>one thing I think is important to point out is

854
00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:48.079
<v Speaker 1>that when you're interacting with people, we're playing a game

855
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:50.119
<v Speaker 1>of sorts, but we're not playing the same game.

856
00:41:50.159 --> 00:41:51.280
<v Speaker 3>We're not playing by the same.

857
00:41:51.199 --> 00:41:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Rules, because I think the rules that Cliff follows that

858
00:41:53.679 --> 00:41:57.119
<v Speaker 1>I follow are like, I'm trying to put more constraints

859
00:41:57.119 --> 00:41:59.840
<v Speaker 1>on myself and more restrictions on myself than any of

860
00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:03.599
<v Speaker 1>the detractors would put on me. And so for starters,

861
00:42:04.280 --> 00:42:07.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to violate any of the axioms of

862
00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:13.440
<v Speaker 1>any given field for this purpose. Let's say it's biology, zoology, ecology,

863
00:42:13.920 --> 00:42:17.880
<v Speaker 1>et cetera. So that's a set of constraints. I'm not

864
00:42:17.920 --> 00:42:20.719
<v Speaker 1>going to invoke things beyond the known if I can

865
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:22.480
<v Speaker 1>help it. I mean, obviously we're in the realm of

866
00:42:22.519 --> 00:42:24.719
<v Speaker 1>the unknown, but I'm not going to reach for an

867
00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:28.800
<v Speaker 1>equally mysterious phenomena as an explanation. So within that set

868
00:42:28.840 --> 00:42:31.559
<v Speaker 1>of constraints, it's like, could there be an ape from

869
00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:34.039
<v Speaker 1>one of these lineages that made it to North America

870
00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.280
<v Speaker 1>that are very rare, that have long lives, that are

871
00:42:37.320 --> 00:42:39.880
<v Speaker 1>being experienced by the human psyche in such a way

872
00:42:39.880 --> 00:42:42.880
<v Speaker 1>that leaves them with the impression, the phenomenological impression that

873
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:45.880
<v Speaker 1>they were A, B, and C. And so that's the

874
00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:48.960
<v Speaker 1>premise of the whole book to say, like, within all

875
00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:52.079
<v Speaker 1>these extreme constraints that I put on myself, can I

876
00:42:52.119 --> 00:42:55.079
<v Speaker 1>explain the entirety of the phenomenon? Yes, here's my argument.

877
00:42:55.199 --> 00:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you take it or leave it. It doesn't mean anyone's going.

878
00:42:57.440 --> 00:42:58.039
<v Speaker 3>To agree with it.

879
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:00.880
<v Speaker 1>But I think when we're talking about dealing with these

880
00:43:00.880 --> 00:43:04.960
<v Speaker 1>other people, the difference is they have no such constraints. Whatsoever,

881
00:43:05.400 --> 00:43:09.840
<v Speaker 1>anything goes, any explanation is equally valid. It doesn't matter

882
00:43:09.840 --> 00:43:12.719
<v Speaker 1>if it violates any of the principles of any discipline,

883
00:43:12.800 --> 00:43:15.280
<v Speaker 1>any field. It doesn't matter how many unknowns they have

884
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to reach for. And so that's where I think a

885
00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:20.960
<v Speaker 1>lot of that disconnect is where it's like, well, you know,

886
00:43:21.199 --> 00:43:24.280
<v Speaker 1>I wish I could just reach for any explanation and say, oh, yeah, well,

887
00:43:24.719 --> 00:43:26.800
<v Speaker 1>the reason we can't find them is because they're powered

888
00:43:26.840 --> 00:43:30.320
<v Speaker 1>by gamma radiation and can do this. But I don't

889
00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.880
<v Speaker 1>have that ability because I've chosen my own shackles, and

890
00:43:34.960 --> 00:43:38.320
<v Speaker 1>I chose the shackles of that I just described, of

891
00:43:38.360 --> 00:43:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the known and things of that nature. So I think

892
00:43:40.880 --> 00:43:43.159
<v Speaker 1>that's where a lot of that frustration comes from. But

893
00:43:43.239 --> 00:43:47.239
<v Speaker 1>I do think that what I can offer is a

894
00:43:47.480 --> 00:43:50.599
<v Speaker 1>unified theory of sorts that says, like, well, here's how

895
00:43:50.639 --> 00:43:53.960
<v Speaker 1>it could be that these animals could exist and still

896
00:43:53.960 --> 00:43:57.360
<v Speaker 1>be unrecognized. I wouldn't say undiscovered, just like Bin and Nagel,

897
00:43:57.480 --> 00:44:00.199
<v Speaker 1>like many people have discovered them much to their own

898
00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:02.840
<v Speaker 1>you know, if we believe the claims, and here's how

899
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:05.679
<v Speaker 1>it could be that we don't have a substantial portion

900
00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of a specimen yet, on and on and on, and

901
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.719
<v Speaker 1>I think until that explanation, at least for me, this

902
00:44:12.000 --> 00:44:14.599
<v Speaker 1>fails to suffice, then I can widen it a little

903
00:44:14.639 --> 00:44:18.000
<v Speaker 1>bit more to accommodate whatever needs to be accommodated. Rather

904
00:44:18.039 --> 00:44:21.280
<v Speaker 1>than saying, well, we'll just break the whole the whole model,

905
00:44:21.440 --> 00:44:23.920
<v Speaker 1>all the walls and to let anything in. It's like,

906
00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:27.079
<v Speaker 1>now we'll start here, and if that fails to be sufficient,

907
00:44:27.639 --> 00:44:30.400
<v Speaker 1>widen the circle a little bit. And if that fails

908
00:44:30.400 --> 00:44:32.800
<v Speaker 1>to be sufficient. You know, it's the same with any

909
00:44:32.840 --> 00:44:35.400
<v Speaker 1>sort of like hypothesis generation and science. I mean that's

910
00:44:35.400 --> 00:44:38.840
<v Speaker 1>what you do. You try to generate the simplest hypothesis possible,

911
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and if it fails to be an explanation, you modified

912
00:44:41.440 --> 00:44:44.559
<v Speaker 1>a bit and it gets slightly more complex, only as

913
00:44:44.639 --> 00:44:48.800
<v Speaker 1>complex as it needs to be to explain the phenomena observed.

914
00:44:49.639 --> 00:44:51.719
<v Speaker 3>I'm just trying to think of a good.

915
00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Rebuttal and I appreciate that, you know, other people don't

916
00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:00.320
<v Speaker 1>work with those same constraints, And that's that's totally mind

917
00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:01.960
<v Speaker 1>that that is, you.

918
00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:03.800
<v Speaker 3>Know, I get I'm not I'm not bad mouth from that.

919
00:45:03.840 --> 00:45:07.079
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that. And and Cliff should be should

920
00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.400
<v Speaker 3>be taken that. I mean, Cliff should just be focused

921
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:15.039
<v Speaker 3>completely on three dimensional you know species, you know, you

922
00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:19.000
<v Speaker 3>know from the animal kingdom. That's pretty because if we

923
00:45:19.039 --> 00:45:20.679
<v Speaker 3>want to get I want to know, I want to

924
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:23.639
<v Speaker 3>know more about how they live, like, how how do

925
00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:26.119
<v Speaker 3>they like? What's their day to day like I want

926
00:45:26.119 --> 00:45:27.559
<v Speaker 3>to know all that. And that's not going to happen

927
00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 3>by doing conferences and books on UFOs and bigfoots.

928
00:45:34.679 --> 00:45:37.719
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

929
00:45:37.719 --> 00:45:47.159
<v Speaker 2>Bogo will be right back after these messages. And also,

930
00:45:47.360 --> 00:45:50.119
<v Speaker 2>it's so much about interpretation, and I've been saying the

931
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:55.000
<v Speaker 2>interpretation versus observation is a huge soft spot in our world.

932
00:45:55.000 --> 00:45:56.800
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, it's like that witness I think

933
00:45:56.840 --> 00:45:58.239
<v Speaker 2>I talked about it a couple of weeks ago. Like

934
00:45:58.320 --> 00:46:00.239
<v Speaker 2>that guy who saw went out by Heppner when he

935
00:46:00.280 --> 00:46:02.800
<v Speaker 2>was hunting in November, he saw one of these things.

936
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:05.519
<v Speaker 2>He actually saw two. I believe he saw a very

937
00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:08.159
<v Speaker 2>large one go into a clump of bushes, and then

938
00:46:08.199 --> 00:46:10.519
<v Speaker 2>he told me that the thing shape shifted into a

939
00:46:10.639 --> 00:46:14.440
<v Speaker 2>human size thing and walked away. But I think a

940
00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:18.079
<v Speaker 2>simpler explanation is that there were two because from what

941
00:46:18.719 --> 00:46:21.920
<v Speaker 2>I personally find in the woods, I think they travel

942
00:46:21.920 --> 00:46:25.039
<v Speaker 2>in small groups. I don't think that they're clumped together

943
00:46:25.119 --> 00:46:28.000
<v Speaker 2>like fish schooling. I think when I say they travel

944
00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:30.760
<v Speaker 2>together in small groups, that there's one or two or

945
00:46:30.800 --> 00:46:33.239
<v Speaker 2>two or three of these things within a couple hundred

946
00:46:33.320 --> 00:46:36.119
<v Speaker 2>yards of each other as they move through the woods,

947
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:39.679
<v Speaker 2>based on the footprint tracks that I have personally found

948
00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:40.320
<v Speaker 2>and observed.

949
00:46:40.800 --> 00:46:41.000
<v Speaker 3>You know.

950
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:43.440
<v Speaker 2>So again, I'm like I think I said this last

951
00:46:43.480 --> 00:46:45.800
<v Speaker 2>week or a couple of weeks ago, that I'm trying

952
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:49.559
<v Speaker 2>to rely less and less on what other people tell

953
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.639
<v Speaker 2>me and trying to put more stock in what I

954
00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:55.599
<v Speaker 2>find and questioning what I mean I take. Okay, so

955
00:46:55.639 --> 00:46:58.119
<v Speaker 2>somebody says this, I wonder if what I'm finding in

956
00:46:58.159 --> 00:47:00.639
<v Speaker 2>the woods supports this idea or not. You know, I

957
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:03.039
<v Speaker 2>don't take any what anybody else says is truth anymore.

958
00:47:03.079 --> 00:47:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I just take it as an idea, and I kind

959
00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:07.519
<v Speaker 2>of see if my own findings support that, you know,

960
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:09.599
<v Speaker 2>or it doesn't even seem logical, you know, which is

961
00:47:09.599 --> 00:47:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I guess my own findings. But I think the guy

962
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:14.039
<v Speaker 2>probably saw two of them, an eight footer and a

963
00:47:14.079 --> 00:47:16.840
<v Speaker 2>six footer. One went in the bushes, the other one

964
00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:19.000
<v Speaker 2>walked out of the bushes. But I don't think it

965
00:47:19.039 --> 00:47:22.360
<v Speaker 2>was the eight footer shape shifting into a smaller one.

966
00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:27.480
<v Speaker 2>That doesn't seem logical, especially when I my evidence, my

967
00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:30.880
<v Speaker 2>personal experience, which is what I was talking about earlier,

968
00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:33.599
<v Speaker 2>that people should afford me that same courtesy that I have.

969
00:47:33.679 --> 00:47:37.800
<v Speaker 2>My own experiences indicate that they move in groups. There's

970
00:47:37.880 --> 00:47:40.519
<v Speaker 2>very often more than one around, you know, So I

971
00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:40.880
<v Speaker 2>don't know.

972
00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:41.480
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

973
00:47:41.880 --> 00:47:44.119
<v Speaker 2>It's all about interpretation, and I guess what level of

974
00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.719
<v Speaker 2>magical thinking you're used to. And that's what it kind

975
00:47:46.719 --> 00:47:49.159
<v Speaker 2>of comes down to. Magical thinking. I mean, the world,

976
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:52.599
<v Speaker 2>the universe is a magical, magical place. It's astonishing. The

977
00:47:52.639 --> 00:47:56.039
<v Speaker 2>whole that we exist at all is literally a miracle,

978
00:47:56.320 --> 00:47:59.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, like that some sort of cosmic soup made

979
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:04.679
<v Speaker 2>Cliff's dour consciousness. You know, I think that's amazing. Bobo

980
00:48:04.960 --> 00:48:08.159
<v Speaker 2>himself is a miracle, you know, in more ways than

981
00:48:08.159 --> 00:48:12.119
<v Speaker 2>I could possibly express. But it's just about an interpretation,

982
00:48:12.280 --> 00:48:15.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, interpretation and and what your world view is,

983
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:17.599
<v Speaker 2>like those cultural filters that you see the world through.

984
00:48:18.000 --> 00:48:20.760
<v Speaker 2>This guy apparently believes shape shifting is a more logical

985
00:48:20.800 --> 00:48:23.679
<v Speaker 2>explanation there than there were two of them. And when

986
00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:26.559
<v Speaker 2>I asked, well, why would you think that its shape

987
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:29.119
<v Speaker 2>shifted instead of there were two of them there, he goes, Oh,

988
00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.360
<v Speaker 2>I just can't imagine something that large being able to

989
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:32.280
<v Speaker 2>hide effectively.

990
00:48:33.239 --> 00:48:37.800
<v Speaker 3>Well, people will underestimate, like their ability to just see.

991
00:48:38.079 --> 00:48:40.639
<v Speaker 3>I was listening to another podcast catmember who as it was,

992
00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:43.400
<v Speaker 3>But this guy was describing how this thing, like how

993
00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:46.559
<v Speaker 3>these things like hidden playing sight, you know, like some

994
00:48:46.639 --> 00:48:48.639
<v Speaker 3>other people came from another direction of these things just

995
00:48:48.679 --> 00:48:51.159
<v Speaker 3>like you know, pressed up against a tree. And he said,

996
00:48:51.199 --> 00:48:53.039
<v Speaker 3>like it like looked like it was just a part

997
00:48:53.039 --> 00:48:54.920
<v Speaker 3>of the tree, like a like a big chuck of

998
00:48:54.920 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 3>burrow or something, you know, like you know, it was daylight,

999
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:00.280
<v Speaker 3>you know, it was there are some shadows and stuff

1000
00:49:00.320 --> 00:49:03.639
<v Speaker 3>cast across it. So it wasn't like direct slide on

1001
00:49:03.679 --> 00:49:05.840
<v Speaker 3>the whole thing tend to toe, but you know it

1002
00:49:05.920 --> 00:49:08.519
<v Speaker 3>was it was totally visible. And he watched it, you know,

1003
00:49:08.760 --> 00:49:10.039
<v Speaker 3>go up next to the tree and just and the

1004
00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:12.480
<v Speaker 3>like blend in and then there was a second squatch

1005
00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:15.599
<v Speaker 3>and it laid down and it just laid down and froze.

1006
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:18.639
<v Speaker 3>And these people just were walking along takeing a hike

1007
00:49:18.719 --> 00:49:20.320
<v Speaker 3>and just walked right by him and I didn't even notice.

1008
00:49:20.360 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 1>And you know, in daylight, I've had that experience like

1009
00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.480
<v Speaker 1>with other people where a couple of years ago, I

1010
00:49:26.559 --> 00:49:28.599
<v Speaker 1>was with Mike Mays down in North Georgia. We were

1011
00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:31.159
<v Speaker 1>filming something for this thing. So we had this little

1012
00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:33.079
<v Speaker 1>film crew, so there was Mike and I and then

1013
00:49:33.199 --> 00:49:36.360
<v Speaker 1>these three people in this film crew. They had opened

1014
00:49:36.360 --> 00:49:38.039
<v Speaker 1>the gate to this area. It's only opened for a

1015
00:49:38.079 --> 00:49:41.239
<v Speaker 1>little while just for the hunting season, and it was

1016
00:49:41.320 --> 00:49:44.280
<v Speaker 1>prior to the hunting season, so it hadn't officially started yet,

1017
00:49:44.320 --> 00:49:45.840
<v Speaker 1>but the gate was open so people could go in

1018
00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:47.760
<v Speaker 1>there and access it, or I guess, you know, if

1019
00:49:47.760 --> 00:49:50.519
<v Speaker 1>they run dogs or whatever, go in and get their dogs.

1020
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:52.840
<v Speaker 1>So we were back in this place and this truck

1021
00:49:52.880 --> 00:49:54.679
<v Speaker 1>started coming down the road, which I was like, oh,

1022
00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:56.360
<v Speaker 1>that's a bummer. Because it was during the middle of

1023
00:49:56.400 --> 00:49:57.880
<v Speaker 1>the week. I didn't think there'd be anyone out there.

1024
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:00.039
<v Speaker 1>But I was like, wow, the gate is opened. I

1025
00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:02.320
<v Speaker 1>was like, everybody, just step off the road a couple

1026
00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:04.320
<v Speaker 1>of feet, and so we just stepped into the brush.

1027
00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Weren't that obscured. And you know, Mike and I are

1028
00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:11.000
<v Speaker 1>wearing earth tones, but the crews wearing like red and yellow,

1029
00:50:11.079 --> 00:50:14.559
<v Speaker 1>like bright colors. And this car drove right past us

1030
00:50:14.639 --> 00:50:16.960
<v Speaker 1>and then got to the creek and decided not to cross,

1031
00:50:17.440 --> 00:50:20.159
<v Speaker 1>and like looked and backed up and never once looked

1032
00:50:20.159 --> 00:50:22.920
<v Speaker 1>in our direction. And I'm like, I'm ninety nine percent

1033
00:50:22.960 --> 00:50:25.840
<v Speaker 1>sure that person had no idea that there were five

1034
00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:28.960
<v Speaker 1>humans standing ten feet from his truck. That was all

1035
00:50:29.000 --> 00:50:32.000
<v Speaker 1>the time, you know, and it just and I pointed

1036
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:33.000
<v Speaker 1>that out to the crew. I was like, do you

1037
00:50:33.000 --> 00:50:34.800
<v Speaker 1>notice that guy. I don't think he even sauce here.

1038
00:50:35.239 --> 00:50:37.280
<v Speaker 1>We were standing right there, right off the road, and

1039
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:39.760
<v Speaker 1>they were wearing bright colors, you know, and he never

1040
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:41.599
<v Speaker 1>saw it. And a lot of it has to do

1041
00:50:41.639 --> 00:50:44.320
<v Speaker 1>with expectation, you know, he probably didn't expect to see,

1042
00:50:44.559 --> 00:50:46.559
<v Speaker 1>you know, a group of people out there standing around

1043
00:50:46.599 --> 00:50:49.599
<v Speaker 1>or whatever. But because you know, usually you'd wave everybody

1044
00:50:49.639 --> 00:50:51.519
<v Speaker 1>like oh hey, sorry or whatever. The case, may'd be

1045
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:55.239
<v Speaker 1>some some level of acknowledgment. But but yeah, I think

1046
00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:59.320
<v Speaker 1>you can imagine that that's the same reason that people

1047
00:50:59.360 --> 00:51:03.039
<v Speaker 1>thought that tyger could vanish into the spirit realm, you know,

1048
00:51:03.079 --> 00:51:06.360
<v Speaker 1>because they could materialize from nothing and then vanish back

1049
00:51:06.360 --> 00:51:09.079
<v Speaker 1>into thin air. And like, these are animals that are

1050
00:51:09.159 --> 00:51:12.119
<v Speaker 1>very adept at hiding. And then we heard all of

1051
00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Gareth Patterson's descriptions about how hard it was to observe

1052
00:51:14.960 --> 00:51:18.360
<v Speaker 1>these elephants, and those are elephants. Man, They're not small,

1053
00:51:18.679 --> 00:51:21.639
<v Speaker 1>and they're not stealthy, you know, they're not quiet or

1054
00:51:22.440 --> 00:51:24.960
<v Speaker 1>I think that gives rise to beliefs. When Cliff was

1055
00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:28.599
<v Speaker 1>talking about the individual likely seeing a second sasquatch and

1056
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:32.199
<v Speaker 1>assuming it had shape shifted, how many legends have you

1057
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:36.000
<v Speaker 1>heard about that attribute the power of ventriloquism to sasquatches,

1058
00:51:36.559 --> 00:51:38.639
<v Speaker 1>that they can throw their voices and sound like they're

1059
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.920
<v Speaker 1>coming from a different direction. And you think, well, what

1060
00:51:42.000 --> 00:51:44.480
<v Speaker 1>experience would give rise to that belief? Oh, well, if

1061
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you're seeing one, or you see one enter one woodline

1062
00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:51.639
<v Speaker 1>and then you hear a sound from the woodline behind you,

1063
00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:54.039
<v Speaker 1>You would it be easier to assume that the thing

1064
00:51:54.119 --> 00:51:56.719
<v Speaker 1>you saw made that sound from a different direction, or

1065
00:51:57.239 --> 00:51:59.360
<v Speaker 1>should you assume like, oh man, there's two of them

1066
00:51:59.400 --> 00:52:02.280
<v Speaker 1>out here, you know, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I

1067
00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.079
<v Speaker 1>think there's a whole lot of those. That's what I

1068
00:52:04.079 --> 00:52:05.840
<v Speaker 1>try to go into such great linked about. It's like, well,

1069
00:52:05.880 --> 00:52:10.199
<v Speaker 1>let's look at all these legends or folkloric mythological sort

1070
00:52:10.239 --> 00:52:12.800
<v Speaker 1>of elements and say like, oh, there's very reasonable, very

1071
00:52:12.880 --> 00:52:15.360
<v Speaker 1>real explanations for all these and it's no wonder that

1072
00:52:15.760 --> 00:52:18.840
<v Speaker 1>someone would believe that this animal is capable of doing

1073
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:21.679
<v Speaker 1>this because they're having real experiences. I just think there

1074
00:52:21.719 --> 00:52:24.599
<v Speaker 1>are simpler explanations.

1075
00:52:24.039 --> 00:52:26.239
<v Speaker 3>Right yeah, yeah, But I think I don't think it

1076
00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.000
<v Speaker 3>explains everything every time, Like I think there's something the

1077
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.679
<v Speaker 3>experienced things that are just I mean that I think

1078
00:52:31.760 --> 00:52:33.679
<v Speaker 3>as far as I'm disappearing that kind of stuffing, that's

1079
00:52:34.039 --> 00:52:36.559
<v Speaker 3>their ability to I think their ability to hide and

1080
00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:38.559
<v Speaker 3>something that may be able to hide and play site

1081
00:52:39.239 --> 00:52:44.119
<v Speaker 3>is is much much better than people can even fathom.

1082
00:52:44.519 --> 00:52:47.880
<v Speaker 3>But on the same sense, there's plenty of people that

1083
00:52:47.920 --> 00:52:51.000
<v Speaker 3>are good observers that you know, like like, for instance,

1084
00:52:51.519 --> 00:52:55.280
<v Speaker 3>military guys out on training exercises like like infantry and

1085
00:52:55.320 --> 00:52:59.440
<v Speaker 3>special forces type guys, you know, and recon all that,

1086
00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.039
<v Speaker 3>and they they go out there and you know, well,

1087
00:53:02.159 --> 00:53:03.920
<v Speaker 3>I guess they're not armed when they're doing exercises, like

1088
00:53:03.920 --> 00:53:07.199
<v Speaker 3>they don't have live amma, but I don't just yeah,

1089
00:53:07.239 --> 00:53:10.199
<v Speaker 3>they can hide, but and they get seen. But I

1090
00:53:10.199 --> 00:53:12.719
<v Speaker 3>mean just the fact that we don't have anything like

1091
00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.840
<v Speaker 3>concrete from their personage, like their actual physical body like

1092
00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:20.039
<v Speaker 3>that we can poinch is that just seems bizarre, dude,

1093
00:53:20.079 --> 00:53:22.639
<v Speaker 3>Like it's you can say, oh this, this is that.

1094
00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.840
<v Speaker 3>But they Okay, so the panda bear whatever, that's been

1095
00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:27.599
<v Speaker 3>one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty years now,

1096
00:53:27.639 --> 00:53:30.800
<v Speaker 3>we've we've had those or more. Gorilla is the same thing.

1097
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:33.159
<v Speaker 3>It's like one hundred and twenty something years since we've

1098
00:53:33.159 --> 00:53:35.519
<v Speaker 3>got and they were doing that stuff back when they

1099
00:53:35.599 --> 00:53:39.320
<v Speaker 3>before they even have flashlights and walkie talkies or you

1100
00:53:39.400 --> 00:53:42.519
<v Speaker 3>know anything. I mean, like no monitoring equipment. No, you know,

1101
00:53:42.599 --> 00:53:43.000
<v Speaker 3>it's just.

1102
00:53:43.679 --> 00:53:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Who's pursuing a physical specimen in the last since the

1103
00:53:47.039 --> 00:53:49.760
<v Speaker 1>dawn of sasquatchry, let's say, in nineteen fifty eight, when

1104
00:53:49.800 --> 00:53:54.199
<v Speaker 1>when people really started to pursue living sasquatches intentionally.

1105
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:56.599
<v Speaker 2>Not a lot. I've got your pictures of Krantz walking

1106
00:53:56.599 --> 00:53:58.480
<v Speaker 2>around with the gun and the Blues with Freeman.

1107
00:53:58.960 --> 00:53:59.960
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's one guy.

1108
00:54:00.719 --> 00:54:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Seen some stuff down in Bluff Creek in the nineteen sixties,

1109
00:54:03.280 --> 00:54:05.360
<v Speaker 2>those guys like John. I think I had seen John

1110
00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:07.960
<v Speaker 2>Green with a rifle on his back at some point.

1111
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:10.559
<v Speaker 1>What Green described to me when I was with him

1112
00:54:10.719 --> 00:54:12.880
<v Speaker 1>was he was like, oh, I had no business Karen rifle.

1113
00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:14.239
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know what I was doing. We didn't know

1114
00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.679
<v Speaker 1>anything about these animals. We're just walking the roads hoping

1115
00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:17.280
<v Speaker 1>to get lucky.

1116
00:54:17.519 --> 00:54:17.880
<v Speaker 3>He said.

1117
00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:21.400
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't anything like a real hunt. And in terms

1118
00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:25.119
<v Speaker 1>of like finding intentionally looking for or intentionally trying to

1119
00:54:25.119 --> 00:54:28.760
<v Speaker 1>find remains, like you can scour the histories of you know,

1120
00:54:28.800 --> 00:54:31.920
<v Speaker 1>the Bigfoot research project in the BFRO and the NAWAC

1121
00:54:32.119 --> 00:54:34.760
<v Speaker 1>and the Olympic project, like no one's looking for remains.

1122
00:54:35.119 --> 00:54:37.199
<v Speaker 1>Most people are keeping an eye out if they stumble

1123
00:54:37.239 --> 00:54:39.800
<v Speaker 1>across it, they'd pay attention to it or maybe try

1124
00:54:39.840 --> 00:54:42.000
<v Speaker 1>to collect it and turn it in somewhere, But there's

1125
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:45.440
<v Speaker 1>no intent and that most people are trying to encounter

1126
00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:48.679
<v Speaker 1>living sasquatches, either to observe them, with their own eyes,

1127
00:54:48.760 --> 00:54:50.760
<v Speaker 1>or to take photographs or get video, or to put

1128
00:54:50.840 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 1>up game cameras, or to find tracks. And that's about it.

1129
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:56.039
<v Speaker 1>You know, no one's you can look at that whole

1130
00:54:56.119 --> 00:54:58.760
<v Speaker 1>history of the pursuit and go, like, show me the

1131
00:54:58.800 --> 00:55:04.880
<v Speaker 1>person who's actively you know, searching, really searching for remains again,

1132
00:55:04.960 --> 00:55:07.719
<v Speaker 1>not just hiking and keeping an eye open. It's not there.

1133
00:55:08.320 --> 00:55:11.280
<v Speaker 3>There's tons of like geologists stuff they're doing other things

1134
00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:15.480
<v Speaker 3>that they could come across, or biologists that the remains

1135
00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:18.760
<v Speaker 3>saying yes, that's I mean, there's there's enough guns in

1136
00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:22.119
<v Speaker 3>the world, dude, like around that are capable of bringing

1137
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.599
<v Speaker 3>something down, especially if you keep saying, how you know,

1138
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:26.480
<v Speaker 3>like a lot of them are man's size. There's definitely

1139
00:55:26.480 --> 00:55:28.360
<v Speaker 3>a lot of firearms you could take those down, like

1140
00:55:28.440 --> 00:55:29.800
<v Speaker 3>a lot to me.

1141
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:33.119
<v Speaker 1>Like the point I try to make in conversations and

1142
00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.199
<v Speaker 1>in the book is like, let's say someone does have

1143
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.760
<v Speaker 1>a sighting and while they're hunting, Well, most game that

1144
00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:41.079
<v Speaker 1>you're hunting is you know, you're you're probably not going

1145
00:55:41.159 --> 00:55:44.400
<v Speaker 1>to be carrying a firearm that's going to generate like

1146
00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:47.320
<v Speaker 1>an immediate lethal wound.

1147
00:55:47.360 --> 00:55:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, but there's enough guys that bear hunt and moose

1148
00:55:49.559 --> 00:55:53.800
<v Speaker 3>hunt and elk hunt that have way significant enough firepower

1149
00:55:53.880 --> 00:55:57.320
<v Speaker 3>to bring down an animal that's only you know, say

1150
00:55:57.639 --> 00:56:01.400
<v Speaker 3>five hundred or seven hundred whatever pounds. There's lots of

1151
00:56:01.480 --> 00:56:02.719
<v Speaker 3>arm dunners out there like that.

1152
00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:06.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, no, But the majority of people hunting, you know,

1153
00:56:06.360 --> 00:56:08.760
<v Speaker 1>just by the numbers you're going to say, are going

1154
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:12.199
<v Speaker 1>to be like birds, turkeys, deer, you know, a lot

1155
00:56:12.239 --> 00:56:15.519
<v Speaker 1>smaller things and so yes, so now I know. But

1156
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:18.559
<v Speaker 1>if you restrict that within all hunters to the people

1157
00:56:18.599 --> 00:56:23.000
<v Speaker 1>that have the firepower, that still doesn't mean that a

1158
00:56:23.039 --> 00:56:26.719
<v Speaker 1>shot is going to be immediately lethal. And so the

1159
00:56:26.760 --> 00:56:29.199
<v Speaker 1>way that I break it down is like a sighting

1160
00:56:29.360 --> 00:56:32.920
<v Speaker 1>might not even mean a shot opportunity. You might see one.

1161
00:56:33.000 --> 00:56:35.159
<v Speaker 1>You might be able to, you know, once you get

1162
00:56:35.159 --> 00:56:38.159
<v Speaker 1>past the confusion or shock or what am I looking

1163
00:56:38.199 --> 00:56:41.039
<v Speaker 1>at or whatever the case may be. So let's say

1164
00:56:41.079 --> 00:56:43.719
<v Speaker 1>that you move from siding to shot opportunity. Well, a

1165
00:56:43.760 --> 00:56:46.320
<v Speaker 1>shot opportunity doesn't even mean that a shot will be

1166
00:56:46.360 --> 00:56:50.119
<v Speaker 1>taken because the person might be so shocked or confused again,

1167
00:56:50.320 --> 00:56:53.880
<v Speaker 1>or decide that maybe that's a person or it's certainly

1168
00:56:54.039 --> 00:56:55.599
<v Speaker 1>like a person and I'm not going to shoot, or

1169
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:56.119
<v Speaker 1>I don't.

1170
00:56:55.960 --> 00:56:56.519
<v Speaker 3>Know what it is.

1171
00:56:57.119 --> 00:56:59.079
<v Speaker 1>So let's say, okay, we'll skip that. Let's say the

1172
00:56:59.079 --> 00:57:01.480
<v Speaker 1>shot is taken. Well, the shot taken does not guarantee

1173
00:57:01.480 --> 00:57:04.599
<v Speaker 1>that that shot will hit the animal. You know, there's

1174
00:57:04.599 --> 00:57:06.320
<v Speaker 1>a whole host of factors that can go into that.

1175
00:57:06.360 --> 00:57:08.719
<v Speaker 1>But let's say it does hit the animal. Okay, A

1176
00:57:08.760 --> 00:57:10.840
<v Speaker 1>shot hitting the animal doesn't even mean it's going to

1177
00:57:10.840 --> 00:57:13.480
<v Speaker 1>be a lethal wound. You know, it might be a

1178
00:57:13.559 --> 00:57:16.840
<v Speaker 1>very sustainable, survivable wound. Let's say, okay, skip that it

1179
00:57:16.880 --> 00:57:19.880
<v Speaker 1>is a lethal wound. Okay, Well, a lethal wound could

1180
00:57:19.920 --> 00:57:23.199
<v Speaker 1>be it dies four days from now, it runs a

1181
00:57:23.239 --> 00:57:26.519
<v Speaker 1>mile and dies, it runs five miles and dies. You know,

1182
00:57:26.559 --> 00:57:30.559
<v Speaker 1>it dies a month later after you know, infection and injury,

1183
00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:32.960
<v Speaker 1>and it's unable to get calories and it basically starves

1184
00:57:33.000 --> 00:57:35.559
<v Speaker 1>to death or something. And so think of all the

1185
00:57:35.599 --> 00:57:39.119
<v Speaker 1>planets that have to align for a hunter with the

1186
00:57:39.199 --> 00:57:43.239
<v Speaker 1>right firepower to see a sasquatch fire or shot that

1187
00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:47.000
<v Speaker 1>makes you know, a lethal wound where the thing drops

1188
00:57:47.039 --> 00:57:50.519
<v Speaker 1>in a place where it's accessible and recoverable. I mean,

1189
00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:52.960
<v Speaker 1>that's a whole lot of things that have to line

1190
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:56.639
<v Speaker 1>up perfectly to equate to a hunter sees a sasquatch

1191
00:57:56.639 --> 00:57:59.880
<v Speaker 1>shoots it and brings it in somewhere.

1192
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:02.000
<v Speaker 3>Not the biggest thing that I that I point to

1193
00:58:02.000 --> 00:58:06.079
<v Speaker 3>you on that is that because I still say they

1194
00:58:06.159 --> 00:58:09.239
<v Speaker 3>carry they carry off they're wounded or dead, they're not

1195
00:58:09.239 --> 00:58:10.880
<v Speaker 3>going to leave them there for you to grab them.

1196
00:58:11.480 --> 00:58:14.159
<v Speaker 1>Or even if someone dropped one and another one just

1197
00:58:14.199 --> 00:58:17.440
<v Speaker 1>started acting aggressively and like didn't even you know, pick

1198
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:19.199
<v Speaker 1>it up and carry it off, just scared the person

1199
00:58:19.239 --> 00:58:21.239
<v Speaker 1>out of there. But I think the most likely thing

1200
00:58:21.360 --> 00:58:23.880
<v Speaker 1>is even if you shot one lethally, how far is

1201
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:26.199
<v Speaker 1>it going to go before it drops dead? Because one

1202
00:58:26.199 --> 00:58:28.559
<v Speaker 1>of the things that I learned from, you know, interviewing

1203
00:58:28.599 --> 00:58:30.440
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people who have a lot of experience

1204
00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:33.159
<v Speaker 1>with big animals, is like, most of the time they

1205
00:58:33.159 --> 00:58:36.360
<v Speaker 1>don't drop dead. You know, there's people that have you know,

1206
00:58:36.480 --> 00:58:39.320
<v Speaker 1>double lung shot deer and had the deer run hundreds

1207
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:42.079
<v Speaker 1>of yards before it went down. And that's a little

1208
00:58:42.079 --> 00:58:44.360
<v Speaker 1>deer with a big rifle, and so some big animal

1209
00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:46.119
<v Speaker 1>that it's like, yeah, maybe it was a lethal wound

1210
00:58:46.119 --> 00:58:49.480
<v Speaker 1>and you'll never find the thing because wherever it ran

1211
00:58:49.519 --> 00:58:52.199
<v Speaker 1>to like, you're just not gonna you're not gonna find it.

1212
00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.599
<v Speaker 1>So to me, I don't have that much problem with

1213
00:58:55.679 --> 00:58:58.519
<v Speaker 1>the proposition that, like there's a lot of hunters out

1214
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:00.719
<v Speaker 1>there and yet no one's ever bagged. And it's like, well,

1215
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:03.320
<v Speaker 1>we talk to people who shot at them, and we've

1216
00:59:03.320 --> 00:59:05.519
<v Speaker 1>talked to people who claim to hit them, and then

1217
00:59:05.639 --> 00:59:07.880
<v Speaker 1>we talk to people a tiny number who claim to

1218
00:59:07.880 --> 00:59:10.320
<v Speaker 1>have shot and killed them. But in a lot of

1219
00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:12.840
<v Speaker 1>those cases, like they weren't recoverable, or if they were,

1220
00:59:13.000 --> 00:59:14.920
<v Speaker 1>the person opted and said like I don't want to

1221
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:17.199
<v Speaker 1>deal with this, and they could see the sort of

1222
00:59:17.239 --> 00:59:20.000
<v Speaker 1>like life flash before their eyes of like what is

1223
00:59:20.199 --> 00:59:22.039
<v Speaker 1>what's going to become of my life if I have

1224
00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:25.559
<v Speaker 1>to deal with this, and they just decide not to

1225
00:59:25.599 --> 00:59:27.719
<v Speaker 1>talk about it for years. You know, if like Paul

1226
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:31.320
<v Speaker 1>Shabaga or some of these other stories are true, I

1227
00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:33.000
<v Speaker 1>don't have a problem with any of that. So to me,

1228
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:35.719
<v Speaker 1>the fact that like a hunter's never brought one in,

1229
00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:37.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't see that as being like, oh, there must

1230
00:59:37.559 --> 00:59:41.679
<v Speaker 1>be something more mysterious going on other than that, like

1231
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:44.760
<v Speaker 1>people rarely see them, most of the people that see

1232
00:59:44.800 --> 00:59:46.639
<v Speaker 1>them are not armed, Most of the hunters that see

1233
00:59:46.639 --> 00:59:49.079
<v Speaker 1>them are not taking shots, and of those that do,

1234
00:59:49.360 --> 00:59:51.840
<v Speaker 1>like a lot of them probably aren't even hitting them.

1235
00:59:51.920 --> 00:59:53.480
<v Speaker 1>And if they do hit them, they're not lethal, and

1236
00:59:53.519 --> 00:59:56.280
<v Speaker 1>if they are lethal wounds, they're not findable or recoverable.

1237
00:59:58.400 --> 01:00:01.440
<v Speaker 2>Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and

1238
01:00:01.440 --> 01:00:10.360
<v Speaker 2>Bobo will be right back after these messages. You know,

1239
01:00:10.519 --> 01:00:13.599
<v Speaker 2>how I approach the mystery the more mysterious questions that

1240
01:00:13.639 --> 01:00:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Bobo is rightly asking. You know, I think that Bobo

1241
01:00:15.920 --> 01:00:20.480
<v Speaker 2>has a lot of interesting points, and those are good questions,

1242
01:00:20.559 --> 01:00:24.400
<v Speaker 2>and so therefore there are probably some good answers for them.

1243
01:00:24.599 --> 01:00:27.079
<v Speaker 2>And I see a lot of these things as opportunities

1244
01:00:27.079 --> 01:00:30.800
<v Speaker 2>to ask the right kinds of questions. For example, like, okay,

1245
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:33.760
<v Speaker 2>so no one no one finds remains right, Well, that's

1246
01:00:33.760 --> 01:00:35.360
<v Speaker 2>true of bears and Cougar's and we all know that.

1247
01:00:35.360 --> 01:00:37.039
<v Speaker 2>We've talked about it in a million times, right, everybody

1248
01:00:37.039 --> 01:00:40.039
<v Speaker 2>knows those things. But so what does that tell us

1249
01:00:40.039 --> 01:00:42.960
<v Speaker 2>about the kinds of places they do put themselves when

1250
01:00:43.000 --> 01:00:45.400
<v Speaker 2>they die? You know, maybe Bobo is right and they

1251
01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:47.920
<v Speaker 2>bury their dead or something that's that's on the table,

1252
01:00:49.039 --> 01:00:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and if that is, if that is not true, what

1253
01:00:52.360 --> 01:00:57.079
<v Speaker 2>does that teach us about those kinds of places? Okay, So,

1254
01:00:57.079 --> 01:00:59.079
<v Speaker 2>so a lot of people have taken shots of these

1255
01:00:59.079 --> 01:01:02.199
<v Speaker 2>things and probably hit the animal. What does that teach

1256
01:01:02.280 --> 01:01:07.360
<v Speaker 2>us about the animals? Like, I think these these omissions

1257
01:01:07.400 --> 01:01:10.679
<v Speaker 2>of answers, you know, these questions that you ask that

1258
01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:13.719
<v Speaker 2>we don't have good answers instead of going to the

1259
01:01:13.760 --> 01:01:16.519
<v Speaker 2>paranormal realm to explain it, which I think many other

1260
01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:19.679
<v Speaker 2>researchers back in this set, I think that that's the

1261
01:01:19.719 --> 01:01:21.559
<v Speaker 2>quick and easy way to get the answers that you

1262
01:01:21.639 --> 01:01:24.119
<v Speaker 2>might be looking for. But I think there's other possibilities.

1263
01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:28.280
<v Speaker 2>What do those omissions in the information we have about

1264
01:01:28.320 --> 01:01:32.559
<v Speaker 2>the animal teach us about the animal? I think that

1265
01:01:32.840 --> 01:01:36.679
<v Speaker 2>is very interesting and very instructive in a lot of ways.

1266
01:01:37.199 --> 01:01:39.000
<v Speaker 2>So if you shoot one and doesn't bring it down,

1267
01:01:39.039 --> 01:01:41.199
<v Speaker 2>what does that teach us? Does it tell us something

1268
01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:44.480
<v Speaker 2>about the how their muscle mass is so dense? Does

1269
01:01:44.519 --> 01:01:46.800
<v Speaker 2>it teach us something about how I don't know, maybe

1270
01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:49.599
<v Speaker 2>adrenaline kicks in and they run for two miles or

1271
01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:52.519
<v Speaker 2>something and then drop there. I think the answers to

1272
01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:55.400
<v Speaker 2>those questions can teach us a lot about the animals, basically,

1273
01:01:55.559 --> 01:01:56.760
<v Speaker 2>is what it comes down to.

1274
01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:01.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, well I agree with that. Yeah, And I'm just

1275
01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.119
<v Speaker 3>saying I'm not saying like I think, I'm not saying

1276
01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:06.920
<v Speaker 3>I think all the paranormal guys are totally right. Instead,

1277
01:02:06.960 --> 01:02:09.880
<v Speaker 3>I'm just saying that you can't write off all of it.

1278
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:12.119
<v Speaker 1>One of these days I'll tell the story. I'll probably

1279
01:02:12.159 --> 01:02:13.920
<v Speaker 1>tell it on the member section because it might be

1280
01:02:14.000 --> 01:02:17.239
<v Speaker 1>too graphic for the main audience. But I know someone

1281
01:02:17.239 --> 01:02:20.960
<v Speaker 1>who worked in law enforcement who had a partner who

1282
01:02:21.199 --> 01:02:24.800
<v Speaker 1>had to shoot a gorilla that had gotten out of

1283
01:02:24.800 --> 01:02:28.000
<v Speaker 1>an enclosure and was causing a lot of problems. To

1284
01:02:28.079 --> 01:02:29.960
<v Speaker 1>make a very long story short, this was not a

1285
01:02:30.039 --> 01:02:33.519
<v Speaker 1>very large male gorilla. It was a thirteen year old

1286
01:02:33.880 --> 01:02:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Lowland gorilla that was in captivity. But he shot it

1287
01:02:37.360 --> 01:02:40.480
<v Speaker 1>with two It took two rounds of a three seventy

1288
01:02:40.480 --> 01:02:42.800
<v Speaker 1>five h and h to put it down, and neither

1289
01:02:42.880 --> 01:02:47.039
<v Speaker 1>round had an exit wound. And this was at close range,

1290
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:50.159
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think sixty feet with a three seventy

1291
01:02:50.199 --> 01:02:54.840
<v Speaker 1>five h and h. Actually it was three rounds. It

1292
01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:57.119
<v Speaker 1>was two rounds to the front and one round to

1293
01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:00.719
<v Speaker 1>the back. He didn't neutralize the animal until the third round,

1294
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:02.719
<v Speaker 1>and there were no exit wounds from any of those.

1295
01:03:02.760 --> 01:03:06.800
<v Speaker 1>And so, as my friend related that story to me, okay,

1296
01:03:07.000 --> 01:03:10.119
<v Speaker 1>he had said, hey, man, if if you or anybody

1297
01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:12.840
<v Speaker 1>thinks that someone's going to bring down a sasquatch with

1298
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:15.519
<v Speaker 1>a shot, It's like, it ain't gonna happen. You know,

1299
01:03:16.039 --> 01:03:18.199
<v Speaker 1>that thing is going to run and who knows how

1300
01:03:18.199 --> 01:03:20.920
<v Speaker 1>far it's going to get. You might, you might wound

1301
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:22.519
<v Speaker 1>it with a leath a wound, but it is not

1302
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:25.400
<v Speaker 1>going to drop dead. That's not going to happen. But anyway,

1303
01:03:25.480 --> 01:03:27.719
<v Speaker 1>so when you're encountered with like these other real world

1304
01:03:27.760 --> 01:03:30.400
<v Speaker 1>examples and stuff like that, and you realize, like, man,

1305
01:03:30.960 --> 01:03:33.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a problem with why hasn't a hunter

1306
01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:36.079
<v Speaker 1>just dropped one and turned it in again? A lot

1307
01:03:36.079 --> 01:03:38.639
<v Speaker 1>of planets have to align to go from hunter c

1308
01:03:38.880 --> 01:03:43.719
<v Speaker 1>sasquatch to sasquatches delivered to some institution that we all

1309
01:03:43.840 --> 01:03:44.760
<v Speaker 1>find out about it.

1310
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:45.000
<v Speaker 3>You know.

1311
01:03:45.880 --> 01:03:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Well, I think that these these mysteries offer us

1312
01:03:51.119 --> 01:03:56.800
<v Speaker 2>learning opportunities if approached the right way. And I'm I'm

1313
01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:59.360
<v Speaker 2>going to venture a bet that what we learn is

1314
01:03:59.400 --> 01:04:02.559
<v Speaker 2>all very very very down to earth. I think the

1315
01:04:02.639 --> 01:04:04.960
<v Speaker 2>quick and easy way is to ascribe it to something

1316
01:04:04.960 --> 01:04:08.719
<v Speaker 2>that nobody understands, but to you know, paraphrase John Green

1317
01:04:08.920 --> 01:04:11.960
<v Speaker 2>explaining one unknown thing with another, It gets us nowhere.

1318
01:04:12.719 --> 01:04:16.280
<v Speaker 2>So I just choose not to go that route. If

1319
01:04:16.360 --> 01:04:18.960
<v Speaker 2>I sound like I'm full of contempt, maybe on my

1320
01:04:19.000 --> 01:04:22.599
<v Speaker 2>bad days, I am, you know, and I'm human. I'm

1321
01:04:22.800 --> 01:04:27.320
<v Speaker 2>certainly subject to tons of faults. You know, Boba, you

1322
01:04:27.360 --> 01:04:29.079
<v Speaker 2>probably know my faults better than most people. We spent

1323
01:04:29.199 --> 01:04:35.320
<v Speaker 2>so much time together. We'll do that on the Members episode.

1324
01:04:36.239 --> 01:04:40.199
<v Speaker 2>But nonetheless, I think that the more we as a

1325
01:04:40.199 --> 01:04:45.719
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot community speak about the subject in sober, down to

1326
01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:51.719
<v Speaker 2>earth mundane terms, the more acceptable this mystery is going

1327
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:55.760
<v Speaker 2>to be too. The very scientists that we need to

1328
01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:59.960
<v Speaker 2>be involved and who will eventually be involved, no matter

1329
01:05:00.039 --> 01:05:02.360
<v Speaker 2>or what. And I think the sooner we get there

1330
01:05:02.400 --> 01:05:02.800
<v Speaker 2>the better.

1331
01:05:03.519 --> 01:05:06.719
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Yeah, I want to get there. Yeah.

1332
01:05:06.800 --> 01:05:09.119
<v Speaker 2>And you know, if they can turn invisible in shape shift,

1333
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:11.719
<v Speaker 2>we'll find that out pretty quick, unless they're hiding it

1334
01:05:11.719 --> 01:05:13.639
<v Speaker 2>from us, in which case we have to assume wolves

1335
01:05:13.639 --> 01:05:14.199
<v Speaker 2>are as well.

1336
01:05:14.840 --> 01:05:15.000
<v Speaker 3>Well.

1337
01:05:15.039 --> 01:05:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of plans and goals and places we want to go, we.

1338
01:05:18.320 --> 01:05:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Never achieved anything for this what we plan today, as

1339
01:05:22.800 --> 01:05:24.760
<v Speaker 2>often happens when we jump into something, you know.

1340
01:05:25.239 --> 01:05:27.239
<v Speaker 1>Well, should we go to our member section and talk

1341
01:05:27.239 --> 01:05:30.440
<v Speaker 1>about highlights of twenty twenty five and our New Year's

1342
01:05:30.480 --> 01:05:31.679
<v Speaker 1>resolutions for twenty three.

1343
01:05:31.559 --> 01:05:34.239
<v Speaker 3>We're going to put this discussion, you're not going to

1344
01:05:34.280 --> 01:05:36.760
<v Speaker 3>have edit it and put in some more stuff for it.

1345
01:05:37.400 --> 01:05:42.480
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, pre paraphrase like the you know the old adage

1346
01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:46.159
<v Speaker 5>like man plans God laughs. Yeah, our podcast is like

1347
01:05:46.400 --> 01:05:48.159
<v Speaker 5>prove it plans, Cliff and Bobo laugh.

1348
01:05:51.400 --> 01:05:52.800
<v Speaker 2>You never know what we're going to talk about. And

1349
01:05:53.000 --> 01:05:54.519
<v Speaker 2>you know, we didn't know we're going to talk about this,

1350
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:56.760
<v Speaker 2>And how how great is that that somebody can tune

1351
01:05:56.760 --> 01:05:59.159
<v Speaker 2>into a podcast that we've been doing for years and

1352
01:05:59.239 --> 01:06:03.079
<v Speaker 2>years and years and they realized that we had good plans.

1353
01:06:03.119 --> 01:06:05.199
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I made a list, I've got a word doc,

1354
01:06:05.440 --> 01:06:08.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, all ready to go, and we didn't use

1355
01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:10.400
<v Speaker 2>any of it. I spent like half hour while I

1356
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:13.360
<v Speaker 2>was waiting on hold today with those tax people I

1357
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.440
<v Speaker 2>was dealing with, which is why it was late, And

1358
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.119
<v Speaker 2>I made this long list and I'm not even using it,

1359
01:06:18.159 --> 01:06:20.199
<v Speaker 2>you know, And I think that's kind of cool that

1360
01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:24.280
<v Speaker 2>even we, even the hosts, don't know what we're going

1361
01:06:24.360 --> 01:06:26.519
<v Speaker 2>to be doing sometimes. And I think there's something cool

1362
01:06:26.519 --> 01:06:26.880
<v Speaker 2>about that.

1363
01:06:27.320 --> 01:06:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, if we were around the campfire or you know,

1364
01:06:29.599 --> 01:06:32.159
<v Speaker 1>a picnic table or something, this is the conversation we

1365
01:06:32.199 --> 01:06:32.800
<v Speaker 1>would have had.

1366
01:06:33.320 --> 01:06:35.880
<v Speaker 3>You know, I didn't even have it. And subject, all

1367
01:06:35.920 --> 01:06:37.400
<v Speaker 3>the listeners have to listen to it.

1368
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:39.840
<v Speaker 1>But no, this is the kind of stuff we talk

1369
01:06:39.880 --> 01:06:42.039
<v Speaker 1>about all the time. So this is very you know,

1370
01:06:42.159 --> 01:06:44.400
<v Speaker 1>it's it's authentic. It's not like we plan to have

1371
01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:48.079
<v Speaker 1>this conversation. So but anyway, I guess we can close

1372
01:06:48.159 --> 01:06:51.400
<v Speaker 1>up shop here and we'll roll over to the pigeon

1373
01:06:51.480 --> 01:06:54.159
<v Speaker 1>side and recap the year and talk about our hopes

1374
01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:54.840
<v Speaker 1>and dreams.

1375
01:06:55.599 --> 01:06:57.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, now that we've settled the debate about paranormal and

1376
01:06:58.000 --> 01:07:00.599
<v Speaker 2>real bigfoot stuff, you know. But but maybe you want

1377
01:07:00.639 --> 01:07:02.920
<v Speaker 2>to take it so and so. But I think it's

1378
01:07:02.920 --> 01:07:04.920
<v Speaker 2>a done deal now. I think we pretty much put

1379
01:07:04.920 --> 01:07:08.760
<v Speaker 2>that one to bed. There's no more arguments left.

1380
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.079
<v Speaker 3>I didn't stay at my position. I was not clear

1381
01:07:11.079 --> 01:07:13.440
<v Speaker 3>of thought. I wasn't planning on talking about that at

1382
01:07:13.440 --> 01:07:13.920
<v Speaker 3>all today.

1383
01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:16.960
<v Speaker 2>No, no, I think you did, because if you look,

1384
01:07:17.000 --> 01:07:19.360
<v Speaker 2>if you read between the lines, what you really said.

1385
01:07:20.039 --> 01:07:22.119
<v Speaker 2>You didn't say you believe in that or this. You

1386
01:07:22.159 --> 01:07:24.679
<v Speaker 2>know you said that, keep your mind open, keep your

1387
01:07:24.679 --> 01:07:27.519
<v Speaker 2>mind open. Nobody really knows what's going on. And I

1388
01:07:27.559 --> 01:07:30.480
<v Speaker 2>can agree with that as well. I think I know

1389
01:07:30.599 --> 01:07:32.880
<v Speaker 2>what's going on because I'm trapped in my own perception,

1390
01:07:33.119 --> 01:07:34.800
<v Speaker 2>just like all these other people who think that they're

1391
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:37.719
<v Speaker 2>shape shifting or UFO writers. Right, and you're just saying

1392
01:07:38.440 --> 01:07:41.000
<v Speaker 2>let's not let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

1393
01:07:41.960 --> 01:07:43.800
<v Speaker 3>I offer us to Srea apology. I ever had to

1394
01:07:43.920 --> 01:07:46.760
<v Speaker 3>listen to this today. It's my fault. Sorry about that.

1395
01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:48.679
<v Speaker 3>We'll make up for it the new year.

1396
01:07:49.519 --> 01:07:52.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you know pro he polishes turns for a

1397
01:07:52.280 --> 01:07:54.519
<v Speaker 2>living man. This will be great. Yeah, this is coming

1398
01:07:54.559 --> 01:07:55.800
<v Speaker 2>out post Christmas, right.

1399
01:07:55.719 --> 01:07:58.360
<v Speaker 1>Br Yes, this will be the last episode of twenty

1400
01:07:58.400 --> 01:07:58.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty five.

1401
01:08:00.039 --> 01:08:02.400
<v Speaker 3>All right, well twenty twenty six, we're gonna ring in

1402
01:08:02.400 --> 01:08:09.800
<v Speaker 3>with a great one approve. Okay, hey for sure? All right, folks, Hey,

1403
01:08:09.840 --> 01:08:12.960
<v Speaker 3>well thanks for joining us. Yeah, it's been an interesting year.

1404
01:08:13.320 --> 01:08:15.559
<v Speaker 3>We were supposed to recap it today, but we didn't.

1405
01:08:15.960 --> 01:08:18.119
<v Speaker 3>Just go back and listen to every episode. It'll be

1406
01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:20.159
<v Speaker 3>like the same thing or bekum.

1407
01:08:19.920 --> 01:08:21.439
<v Speaker 2>A number and hear what we're going to talk about

1408
01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:22.640
<v Speaker 2>on the membership episode.

1409
01:08:22.840 --> 01:08:26.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah yeah, everyone that belongs to the membership say they

1410
01:08:26.600 --> 01:08:30.079
<v Speaker 3>liked those way better, so check it out. Well. Anyways,

1411
01:08:30.159 --> 01:08:31.840
<v Speaker 3>thanks for your support everyone. We hope you had a

1412
01:08:31.960 --> 01:08:33.479
<v Speaker 3>good year, and we hope you had a great year

1413
01:08:33.560 --> 01:08:35.920
<v Speaker 3>coming up. I hope you had a good holiday season

1414
01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:40.319
<v Speaker 3>and just we appreciate your support and hit like hit share,

1415
01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:48.119
<v Speaker 3>we appreciate it all right, keep it squatchy.

1416
01:08:48.439 --> 01:08:51.720
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.

1417
01:08:52.119 --> 01:08:54.399
<v Speaker 2>If you liked what you heard, please rate and review

1418
01:08:54.479 --> 01:08:57.800
<v Speaker 2>us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you

1419
01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:01.000
<v Speaker 2>get your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram

1420
01:09:01.079 --> 01:09:04.640
<v Speaker 2>at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. You can find us on

1421
01:09:04.680 --> 01:09:08.319
<v Speaker 2>Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond. That's an N in the middle,

1422
01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:11.760
<v Speaker 2>and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag

1423
01:09:12.000 --> 01:09:13.760
<v Speaker 2>Bigfoot and Beyond.