Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: These guys are your favorites, so like say subscribe and
Speaker 2: raid it five star me grates on us today.
Speaker 1: And listening watching lim always keep its watching. And now
Speaker 1: you're hosts Cliff Berrickman and James Bubo Fay.
Speaker 2: Hello Cliff, Hello Bobo. How you doing Man?
Speaker 3: Good? Good? How's going with you?
Speaker 2: It's going right. You think it's December to be better
Speaker 2: at the museum, but it's just a slow season. But
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that we're at the sandstill because there's
Speaker 2: lots of stuff going on. I mean, I think I
Speaker 2: turned in two new displays this past week for printing,
Speaker 2: and I think that brings it up to one, two, three,
Speaker 2: four of I This is six or seven new displays
Speaker 2: we'll be putting up in January, and I'm not even
Speaker 2: done yet. There's a few more that I have to do.
Speaker 2: We're getting a new digital display in which is kind
Speaker 2: of cool. It's gonna be a first for us, like
Speaker 2: an interactive touchscreen sort of display. I'll tell you about
Speaker 2: when it's done. We've got some cooperation from other Bigfooters
Speaker 2: out there on that one. We got some new stuff
Speaker 2: about the history and nomenclature of Sasquatch and Bigfoot. We've
Speaker 2: got some new Peter Burn artifacts that are going to
Speaker 2: be displayed. Of course, the Meldrum stuff is being integrated
Speaker 2: pretty effectively as well. Lots of stuff going on at
Speaker 2: the NABC as always, so we don't sit still.
Speaker 3: Well yeah that's great. Yeah, I mean it'd be really
Speaker 3: easy to breshing your laws. Like man, I was paining
Speaker 3: the butt putting that. I'm just gonna that's good enough.
Speaker 3: People will see it, you know, like whatever, if you
Speaker 3: want to, if you want to keep people coming back,
Speaker 3: you got to change stuff up. Because I'm sure what
Speaker 3: percentage do you think is repeat customers?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't I don't if I if
Speaker 2: I had to take a guess, which I guess I do?
Speaker 3: We see?
Speaker 2: I don't know what some people come in and says, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: we've been here before, or like when they come in
Speaker 2: the door. I always ask my employees and I do
Speaker 2: the same to greet the customer. Say, everybody who comes
Speaker 2: in gets a hello from us and a thank you
Speaker 2: when they leave, right, And it's just good business practice,
Speaker 2: I think. And when they come in and say, hey,
Speaker 2: you're going to check out the museum today and some
Speaker 2: people say, oh, I've already seen it. They go, okay, great,
Speaker 2: well when did you see it? Oh, I saw it
Speaker 2: right after you opened. Say, well, then you haven't seen it,
Speaker 2: but they think they have. We're a little bit different now,
Speaker 2: let to say the least. So as far as that goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: we do get a lot of repeat customers, but regular
Speaker 2: customers are fewer. I don't know what percentage. It'd be
Speaker 2: hard to venture that. Guess what people are dropping by
Speaker 2: like every two or three months, but a fair number,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. There's probably at least a
Speaker 2: few dozen or maybe fifty people or so that do that, right,
Speaker 2: But I don't know what percentage that would be. But
Speaker 2: that's the whole point, you know. We try to keep
Speaker 2: people coming back because we have a small facility, and
Speaker 2: luckily we can we have we're nimble enough being a
Speaker 2: small facility that we can change things out. But it's
Speaker 2: almost to the point where a good percentage, probably a
Speaker 2: third or half of the stuff we have in there,
Speaker 2: I think should be permanently exhibited, you know, like the
Speaker 2: Ape Canyon stuff, right, Like I don't want to pull that.
Speaker 2: That's cool, totally. Well, yeah, so yeah, there's certain things
Speaker 2: that I want to keep up all the time, of course,
Speaker 2: but you know, being a small facility, we have to
Speaker 2: use whatever wall space we have or floor space or
Speaker 2: even ceiling space as display places. You know, we have
Speaker 2: some stuff on the ground that replicates the Patterson Gidwin
Speaker 2: step length. Yeah, we're kind of building up a little bit,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to go above head level, like we're
Speaker 2: doing a tree break a tree twist display, because I
Speaker 2: have some historical stuff from the Freeman collection via doctor Meldrum,
Speaker 2: and of course we have a number of tree twists
Speaker 2: in the woods that are just sitting there that are astonishing,
Speaker 2: just astonishing, amazing things that nobody would argue is done naturally,
Speaker 2: you know, like that's not wind for example.
Speaker 3: Or not elm harvests.
Speaker 2: Right, well, that's just it. I applied for the permit
Speaker 2: back in October, but then these people who think they're
Speaker 2: running the country shut everything down for a little bit,
Speaker 2: so that delayed everything. And I went into the office
Speaker 2: about a week and a half two weeks ago and said, hey,
Speaker 2: remember me that guy up the street the big Foot
Speaker 2: Museum and just haven't heard anything. And they say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: here's an here's the email address for the and I
Speaker 2: wrote that person that the next day and it's been
Speaker 2: about two weeks now, no reply yet. So I'm not
Speaker 2: I can't go harvest these individual trees, these twisted trees,
Speaker 2: until I get the permit, of course, just kind of waiting.
Speaker 2: And until we get the trees, I can't really design
Speaker 2: the display. But those are going to go above the
Speaker 2: head of everybody, so they're out of the reach of
Speaker 2: you know, various people who come into the museum, like
Speaker 2: kids mostly, And then so yeah, we're new stuff is happening,
Speaker 2: New stuff is happening, more stuff in January. So if
Speaker 2: you are coming out to anywhere, if for our listeners
Speaker 2: are coming out to squatch Fest or whatever, they're intergalactic,
Speaker 2: they've gone UFO now whatever UFO's are real at least,
Speaker 2: but that again, you know how I feel about the
Speaker 2: paranormalill being introduced to this so watch thing. I think
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate, but I guess there's more money in it.
Speaker 2: But anyway, I guess that's the way the Chamber of
Speaker 2: Commerce might do this. So anyway, at the end of January,
Speaker 2: now they're not all money grifters.
Speaker 3: That are like, there's no times you guys have legit
Speaker 3: things that happening that is not explained conventionally that got
Speaker 3: into that because of what they experienced themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah, I get. But I have been
Speaker 2: told that the UFO community has more money than the
Speaker 2: bigfoot community. Well obviously, yeah, by people who went that direction, So.
Speaker 3: Of course I got. What it's not even close. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: there's a thousand like PhD and genius level guys like
Speaker 3: that are way recognizing their fields internationally that you know,
Speaker 3: are interested and involved in that whole you know, UFO phenomena.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, if various festivals want to go that direction,
Speaker 2: I guess it's okay. But they're trying to make a
Speaker 2: big tent where everybody fits underneath it. That's the driving
Speaker 2: force now for me, like trying to prove the species,
Speaker 2: it's just a let's keep this thing real for a change,
Speaker 2: you know, let this do the big foot stuff for real.
Speaker 2: I don't think UFOs and big foot blong in the
Speaker 2: same bucket.
Speaker 3: It might it could be part of the whole idea
Speaker 3: of the grand unification of the weird hogwash balder dash.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of people smarter than all of us.
Speaker 3: I think there's something to it.
Speaker 1: Who a lot name three?
Speaker 3: Oh dude, yeah, next episode, next next, I'll have a
Speaker 3: list of twenty.
Speaker 1: You said there's a lot name three?
Speaker 3: Three?
Speaker 1: Is not that many to name.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm not get off the top of my
Speaker 3: head through it. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot
Speaker 3: of people that it should like the whole overlapping of
Speaker 3: like you know, like potentially like parallel universes. Although I
Speaker 3: just listened to a podcast with these, like it's way
Speaker 3: over my head most of it. But this guy's explain
Speaker 3: how the there is like people CITs evidence for parallel universes,
Speaker 3: there's really no evidence. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just think any sort of like grand unification of
Speaker 1: the weird just falls short. It's just using the gaps,
Speaker 1: which there are many gaps, and that's why these are
Speaker 1: all mysterious phenomena because they're as yet unproven, and trying
Speaker 1: to fill those gaps with other mysterious phenomena where it's
Speaker 1: like there is obviously something too, like the apparitional phenomena
Speaker 1: because it's been reported worldwide forever, and there's obviously something
Speaker 1: to the UFO phenomenon, and there's in our opinion something
Speaker 1: to the mystery a phenomenon, but to think that they
Speaker 1: all have a common source, like, to me, the things
Speaker 1: that are common across them are the human experience, because
Speaker 1: what all those things have in common are they're all
Speaker 1: experienced by human observers and they're being filtered through the
Speaker 1: human psyche. And so yes, people describe those experiences in
Speaker 1: many of the same ways their reactions, their perceptions, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean that they have a common source.
Speaker 1: Like as far as I can tell, Like I've said before,
Speaker 1: I'm no more willing to assume that they're connected than
Speaker 1: anything else that occurs in the natural world, because yeah,
Speaker 1: there's mysterious phenomena out there, but that mean that they're
Speaker 1: associated with possums or elk or deer, like no one
Speaker 1: thinks that.
Speaker 3: Extra like either extra traustial or ultratreustrial sources like in
Speaker 3: DNA manipulations. Think if they're if they really are here
Speaker 3: for genetic material, although I could argue against that in
Speaker 3: some ways too, But if they're here like and they're
Speaker 3: doing experiments like with humans and human type creatures, I mean,
Speaker 3: who knows. I mean, who knows if all this UFO stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's because the UFO phenomenon to mean is
Speaker 3: wide open. So like, what what's the cause? What if
Speaker 3: they are whatever, if they are extra ultraterrestrial, what's their purpose?
Speaker 3: How long do you know all this? And that like
Speaker 3: it's we don't know. It's wide open.
Speaker 1: Oh certainly, But then to say that like it's definitely
Speaker 1: connected to this one particular animal again, why not possums.
Speaker 3: Because they don't want possum gena, they want human DNA.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 3: Because I know, I know feel have been on those
Speaker 3: ships for it, They've talked to these people.
Speaker 2: May they say that it's at least a possibility.
Speaker 1: That's my point though, is like people see people are
Speaker 1: in forced areas and they have UFO sidings or aparitional experiences,
Speaker 1: and no one ever attributes them to animals that are
Speaker 1: like much more abundant in those places.
Speaker 3: Jeremy to start a vimit through it?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I think we should. I think we should
Speaker 1: have like possum and beyond.
Speaker 3: You think I won't. You think I won't.
Speaker 1: Because I am very interested in I've read a lot
Speaker 1: about the UFO phenomenon. I've read a lot about the
Speaker 1: apparitional or like consciousness, surviving beyond death, like all those
Speaker 1: things fascinate me. I just I don't think necessarily they're
Speaker 1: all associated with the sasquatch, you know.
Speaker 3: Right, I mean, yeah, I don't think. I don't think
Speaker 3: sasquatches are piloting UFOs or anything like that. But if
Speaker 3: they are taking up people, and I guess to take
Speaker 3: cows too, like you know, cattle and other I guess
Speaker 3: other animals they do those they find with those weird
Speaker 3: like like autopsy like it was basically how autopsy and
Speaker 3: the organs or movie like with lasers. It looks like
Speaker 3: the majority is cattle, but they also you know, other
Speaker 3: livestock they get it just as well, but not as much.
Speaker 2: Well, I think everybody knows my stance. You know. It's like,
Speaker 2: if they are associated with all these paranormal things, if
Speaker 2: they can turn invisible, if they can transfer people back
Speaker 2: in time, if they can speak to you inside your head,
Speaker 2: if they can do any of these things. Once they
Speaker 2: are discovered, they're not going to hide that from us,
Speaker 2: And some people are probably going to say, oh, sure,
Speaker 2: they're going to hide that. Then we have to assume,
Speaker 2: just like Krantz points out in his book, then we
Speaker 2: have to assume wolves are also hiding that stuff from
Speaker 2: us as well, and that doesn't really get us anywhere, right,
Speaker 2: So let's get over the first home. Let's tell everybody
Speaker 2: that they're there, and in the meantime, let's just use
Speaker 2: the objective stuff that seems to be most real, that
Speaker 2: aren't outliers in order to keep the scientists involved.
Speaker 3: I get that, I get all that. I'm just saying
Speaker 3: that I think we can't definitively say anything yet all
Speaker 3: on those things now.
Speaker 1: But I think if you were making a prediction and
Speaker 1: you were to look at like this host of beliefs
Speaker 1: that people have about sasquatches, and that most people, because
Speaker 1: they're so interested in this subject, like most of the
Speaker 1: people who you know would be in our audience, have
Speaker 1: only ever encountered those beliefs via sasquatch books, podcast, movies, documentaries, testimony,
Speaker 1: on and on and on. And then to step outside
Speaker 1: of that, which is, you know, I've been beating this
Speaker 1: drum forever, but to try to say, well, no, look
Speaker 1: at these other animals that are analogous in many ways,
Speaker 1: that had the exact same beliefs associated with them the
Speaker 1: same you got one.
Speaker 3: Of the examples of all those in zoos and museums,
Speaker 3: like they've all been documented, Like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but there was a time when they weren't. You know,
Speaker 1: there were centuries and centuries where they weren't.
Speaker 3: But my point is, like those before they had thermal imergy,
Speaker 3: before they had camera traps, before they had firearms, before
Speaker 3: they had all these things that we've had access to
Speaker 3: you now for like one hundred years or more in
Speaker 3: those thereas and some stuff obviously newer. But dude, it's
Speaker 3: weird that we don't have one known sample.
Speaker 1: You don't think that it's weird that you can see
Speaker 1: the exact same suite of beliefs, like the same collection,
Speaker 1: in the same context, the same mystical powers attributed to them,
Speaker 1: like point for point, almost verbatim, in this slew of
Speaker 1: other analogous animals that we now understand to be like
Speaker 1: perfectly normal.
Speaker 3: That you could easily say, like, well, this is the
Speaker 3: way that normal. We have samples of mobil we don't
Speaker 3: have we don't have sasquats.
Speaker 1: Due so, but you would have to then concede that like, okay,
Speaker 1: well we just somehow, you know, devoid of our own psyches,
Speaker 1: just randomly came up with the same suite of beliefs
Speaker 1: of all these animals, and it happened that none of
Speaker 1: them were They were metaphorically true, but not literally true,
Speaker 1: except in the case of this one animal that like.
Speaker 3: O, how long of those are solved? You're talking a
Speaker 3: long time ago? The amount of fire like just do
Speaker 3: the upgrade and firearms alone? I mean, did you not
Speaker 3: have one body or part even like a finger that
Speaker 3: we can show or is pretty do that's I don't
Speaker 3: care how rare and that and that like every other
Speaker 3: things documented pretty you know, well pretty well documented, you know,
Speaker 3: like especially if you're now all that you're talking, dont
Speaker 3: all that size to not have any evidence at all,
Speaker 3: like you know, like physical that we can point out,
Speaker 3: like remains, like you know, specimen type things. It's like that, dude,
Speaker 3: that's bizarre.
Speaker 1: But you don't think it's more likely that we perceive
Speaker 1: nature a certain way, given the nature of human perception
Speaker 1: in the human psyche, and that these exact beliefs we
Speaker 1: have ascribed to all these other animals, and they fell
Speaker 1: away one by one, you know, over the centuries upon discovery.
Speaker 1: But this one that has not yet been officially recognized,
Speaker 1: is indeed the holdout that actually does have all those abilities,
Speaker 1: you can very well argue that, Yeah, but if you
Speaker 1: were trying to make a prediction and going, well, we
Speaker 1: thought that about this, but then we learned that, and
Speaker 1: we thought that about this, but then we learned that,
Speaker 1: and you know, after a couple dozen examples, you'd go, well,
Speaker 1: if I were a betting man, I'd think, yeah, we
Speaker 1: think this, but one day we're going to learn earn
Speaker 1: that instead.
Speaker 3: I mean, I get that. I mean that's a pretty
Speaker 3: easy concept of grass. I'm just saying that. But we
Speaker 3: haven't there is it hasn't happened. Like that's freaking weird, dude,
Speaker 3: like that, there's nothing that we can't put to anything.
Speaker 3: I mean, you're talking about it, dude. I've seen one
Speaker 3: that was like fifteen hundred pounds. It's huge, and like
Speaker 3: how that thing stays hidden? I mean I can see
Speaker 3: like people see them, Yeah, people see them, but for
Speaker 3: nothing to come in like concrete, we have just the
Speaker 3: powers and film that's think maybe the Freeman's you know
Speaker 3: that not that quality, but there's very there's so little
Speaker 3: quality footage. I mean, it's like it's pretty bizarre to
Speaker 3: like that we just don't have more.
Speaker 1: I really don't think it is, though, because you know
Speaker 1: there there are so many other examples that fit that model.
Speaker 1: Until people really get involved and invested.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
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Speaker 3: Show me the last large, large, huge mammal apex type
Speaker 3: animal that we a's global distribution that has not been
Speaker 3: anything like nothing concrete on.
Speaker 1: If you pick a category like you mentioned images like well.
Speaker 1: When so Young Park got involved pursuing the Siberian tiger
Speaker 1: in the nineties, there was less than one hour of
Speaker 1: footage of Siberian tigers in the wild that had been
Speaker 1: collected before he got involved. I mean, so there's an
Speaker 1: example of very really, how do people with cameras were equipped?
Speaker 1: And you're talking like as soon as the Civil Union.
Speaker 3: Fell and like there's like Western stuff coming into more
Speaker 3: technology and this and that and more money if people haven't,
Speaker 3: but prior to that, dude, like who who is going
Speaker 3: to document photographically where those leopards were? I mean, very
Speaker 3: like there's some nomadic herdsman and you know, like mountaineering folks,
Speaker 3: Like there's hardly compared to like where sasquatches and Yawie's
Speaker 3: and other things just sting with all the cell phones.
Speaker 3: I know, cell phones sucked for cameras, but there's still
Speaker 3: so I mean, it's it's really hard to explain that
Speaker 3: there's nothing.
Speaker 1: But even your own experiences should give you those answers,
Speaker 1: because like you you did see one with a thermal
Speaker 1: imager and you didn't find it any easier to record
Speaker 1: than la person would.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I didn't have a recording capability, But.
Speaker 1: Exactly like or you you mentioned like, oh, look at
Speaker 1: all the guns, Well what would you have used to
Speaker 1: bring down a fifteen hundred pound animal on a camping trip.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure a shot prod. I could use the
Speaker 3: twenty two and.
Speaker 2: Work to get back to my original point squatch Fest
Speaker 2: being intergalactic. Now it makes as much sense to me
Speaker 2: as having like a bear conference and UFO conference combined
Speaker 2: into one.
Speaker 3: I think sasquattions come from Earth and all that. I mean,
Speaker 3: they're they've evolved, But I just wonder how much genetic
Speaker 3: genetic manipulation's happened to humans over the years, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean by then, I'm like, are whatever I mean,
Speaker 3: I don't know about manipulation, but yeah, I guess manipulation.
Speaker 3: I mean I listen to a lot of I listen
Speaker 3: to a lot of weird podcasts and interviews and stuff,
Speaker 3: so like, yeah, I obviously get some some bad info
Speaker 3: getting mixed in there, or a lot of bad info
Speaker 3: or confused or half ached info or partially true, partially
Speaker 3: not or whatever. I mean. But it's just I've heard
Speaker 3: some of like people that are pretty well spoken and like, well,
Speaker 3: this doesn't make sense here, this doesn't make sense their
Speaker 3: evolutionary like brain size and how fast certain things developed,
Speaker 3: and like historical texts with you know, referring to like well,
Speaker 3: like whether it be angels or demons or like a
Speaker 3: lot of it apply. It seems like it's applying to
Speaker 3: like that whole ancient alien sector, like you know, like
Speaker 3: this seems like these whatever these entities are like and
Speaker 3: these ships they've been around for a long time, thousands
Speaker 3: of years before we did nuclear tests.
Speaker 2: Well, I guess we'll see. But in the meantime, I
Speaker 2: think that the best way to approach the sasquatch thing
Speaker 2: is through amateur wildlife biologists, like from Lens an amateur
Speaker 2: wildlife biologists Lens. I think we will learn the most
Speaker 2: about the animals that way.
Speaker 3: I agree with that one hundred per cent. I don't
Speaker 3: think we could. I just don't think it's like approach
Speaker 3: to people that like go like, well, there's some weird
Speaker 3: stuff about these things. I've seen this in that it's
Speaker 3: like Tyler Dude's seen the ones seen a small one
Speaker 3: and a big one holding white orbs in their hands.
Speaker 2: Don't know anything about it. I've I haven't, And I
Speaker 2: think that's where the last hold it is. If other
Speaker 2: people can be convinced of seemingly ridiculous things being real,
Speaker 2: And I must say and mind you, my life is
Speaker 2: full of ridiculous things like chock full. But if other people,
Speaker 2: if that's what it took for other people to believe
Speaker 2: that stuff, then I think it's fair to say that
Speaker 2: I need that to You know, I've seen enough, I've
Speaker 2: done enough to be completely confident sasquatches are real animals,
Speaker 2: and I've never once, never once have seen or heard
Speaker 2: or anything like that, anything that would make me think
Speaker 2: that they're anything else but perfectly normal animals. And to
Speaker 2: have other people say that, you know, I've been I've
Speaker 2: told you lots of times. I've been accused of being
Speaker 2: closed minded. I've been accused of being spiritually constipated, which
Speaker 2: is an odd thing. I've been accused of all sorts
Speaker 2: of ridiculous things by people. And that's why that the
Speaker 2: Bigfoot people have not reached out to me and or
Speaker 2: I've ignored their pleads and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: But if their experience is what turned them, then why
Speaker 2: do not Why do I not get that same courtesy
Speaker 2: about my own experience? Is my thought. You know, I
Speaker 2: am advocating for the discovery of the species in order
Speaker 2: to find out what's really going on, and I strongly
Speaker 2: suspect that I'm right, just like everybody else strongly suspects
Speaker 2: that they're right. Again, same courtesy is being it should
Speaker 2: be extended to me as what they expect me to
Speaker 2: extend to them. You know, of course, I think I'm right,
Speaker 2: just like everybody thinks they're right. And there's a whole
Speaker 2: lot that I don't know, and I'm right about that too.
Speaker 2: I also don't.
Speaker 3: I don't think i'm right. I just I'm still wide open.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying that it makes it. I don't think
Speaker 2: that the UFO thing is necessary, because it's not necessary
Speaker 2: for a bare biology convention either. But then whatever, but
Speaker 2: more people are coming in, more weird people. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be great. It's gonna be great. I'm looking forward to
Speaker 2: the job. I just I'm looking forward to the day
Speaker 2: when we can separate those two things.
Speaker 3: I don't want to complain. I wouldn't want to combine
Speaker 3: the two, and comp's.
Speaker 2: Part of the quandary that we're in right now is
Speaker 2: because of things like in search of and stuff piling
Speaker 2: off like crystal skulls in Atlantis and Bigfoot. Well, I
Speaker 2: guess at that point it belonged in that realm, but No,
Speaker 2: it didn't even belonging there.
Speaker 3: Then about provin mummies.
Speaker 2: I don't know anything about them, and I know that
Speaker 2: some of the work that's been done has been pretty misleading,
Speaker 2: but I just don't don't know. I don't care. I
Speaker 2: don't look into it, but I do care about soundsquatch stuff,
Speaker 2: and I spent a lot of time looking into that.
Speaker 3: What do you think about that? The proven mummies? I mean,
Speaker 3: there's some pretty people. I was shocked to hear like
Speaker 3: legit people saying like, well, that these things are real.
Speaker 1: Like did you watch Jesse Michael's documentary about it?
Speaker 3: No, but I heard him talk about it. Yeah, listen,
Speaker 3: I'm listening to him talk about it a few times.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's his documentary was fascinating. But it's funny because
Speaker 1: he came to mind. I've heard him many times. He's like, no,
Speaker 1: this is real. It's not some nonsense like Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: He said that. I was pissed exactly.
Speaker 1: Well, so, in the same way that there's plenty of
Speaker 1: us who think like there should not be a cross pollination,
Speaker 1: there's no shortage of UFO people who are like, oh God,
Speaker 1: don't cross pollinate with this, with that Bigfoot nonsense, you know.
Speaker 3: And I think that's I think that's like, that's wrong.
Speaker 3: I mean yeah, I mean I don't know, it's like,
Speaker 3: what's his name? I loved I loved this series until
Speaker 3: he did the big Foot one, and I still like
Speaker 3: it a lot.
Speaker 1: The Wi Files.
Speaker 3: Yes, there's on big Foot. I was like, now after
Speaker 3: everything else they said in a question.
Speaker 1: Yes, I've had that experience many times where I'll, you know,
Speaker 1: for entertainment purposes, watch or listen to some like catch
Speaker 1: all podcast or YouTube channel, and it is mostly talking
Speaker 1: about things that I'm unfamiliar with, right, Oh, that's really interesting.
Speaker 1: And then they will get to something like the Sasquatch,
Speaker 1: and they'll get so many things factually wrong. And it
Speaker 1: can be several things like, you know, the date of
Speaker 1: the Patterson film, like things that are easily googleable that
Speaker 1: are not really something that requires interpretation or a background
Speaker 1: in a particular you know, discipline, and they'll get that
Speaker 1: stuff wrong, and I'm like, oh, so they're probably equally
Speaker 1: lacks about all these other subjects that I just didn't
Speaker 1: know anything about.
Speaker 3: That's exactly That's why I was like, I s so
Speaker 3: disappointed when I heard that. I was like when Rugg
Speaker 3: and flipped on Bigfoot. I was like, oh, man, like
Speaker 3: they keeps talking smack on a NonStop. It's like, Dade,
Speaker 3: it just makes you, you know, like, if you're that
Speaker 3: wrong on that, like and like and you know so
Speaker 3: out and about it, that's a whole different thing saying
Speaker 3: like I don't think that's I don't think that's correct.
Speaker 3: But you know, we'll see.
Speaker 1: To Cliff's point, I think a big part of the
Speaker 1: problem is that for anybody who wades into this subject,
Speaker 1: you know, there was a point in time when they
Speaker 1: would wade into it and they would be met with
Speaker 1: mostly very grounded information because it was being presented aggregated
Speaker 1: sort of like curated by grounded people like John Green,
Speaker 1: and you know, the few talking heads that would be
Speaker 1: on an episode of In Search of would be you know,
Speaker 1: John Green, Grover Krantz, and then a handful of witnesses
Speaker 1: that they probably provide, you know, I'm sure Green was
Speaker 1: the one who was providing witnesses for those things, And
Speaker 1: so mostly what you'd be met with was, like, you know,
Speaker 1: outside of the fact that there's supposedly an undiscovered ape
Speaker 1: in North America, like, it's all fairly grounded and believable.
Speaker 1: But now it is that grand unified theory of weirdness
Speaker 1: where the sasquatch is like anything and everything under the sun,
Speaker 1: and it has every metaphysical power and supernatural ability you
Speaker 1: can throw at it, and it's associated with you know,
Speaker 1: ancient civilizations and aliens and and so it's no wonder
Speaker 1: that when people do dip a toe into it, like
Speaker 1: you know, I know Joe Rogan's been looking into it
Speaker 1: for years, but people of that sort, you know, they're like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, man, I looked at that for five minutes,
Speaker 1: and it's insane. It's all nonsense because they can't be
Speaker 1: expected to have the time or discernment to go, Hey,
Speaker 1: just trust me, if you weed through the ninety nine
Speaker 1: percent of bullshit, you'll find good stuff. Just trust me, bro,
Speaker 1: you know, right. We try to do our best, or
Speaker 1: I try to do my best in like writing a
Speaker 1: book or what I say on podcast, but it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, we're a drop and a bucket of insane
Speaker 1: or we're dropping an ocean of insaneanity.
Speaker 2: For the most part, the tact I take, like the
Speaker 2: direction I go is that I can only who has
Speaker 2: time for more than one thing? Right, Really, at the
Speaker 2: end of the day, I know, I'm kind of a
Speaker 2: generalist and a lot for a lot of different things.
Speaker 2: But Sasquatch is my gig, you know, like that's the
Speaker 2: one thing that I kind of know something about, you know,
Speaker 2: besides you know, playing guitar or something like that. Right,
Speaker 2: But I don't have time for UFOs and ghosts. I
Speaker 2: don't have time for all that the demonology or you know,
Speaker 2: Crystal skulls in Atlantis, and I haven't spent any time
Speaker 2: on it because I don't care. And I'm assuming most
Speaker 2: other people are kind of like that. But some people
Speaker 2: make a living and there's a market for the people
Speaker 2: who are who act like they know something about everything.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the one I do like when I those
Speaker 3: guys that are generalists and they using this big Foot
Speaker 3: excerpts from Like, there's some guys that know their stuff,
Speaker 3: like Ken Gearhart.
Speaker 2: Ken Gearhart is a great example of a generalist who
Speaker 2: knows a lot about a lot of different things.
Speaker 3: Right. There's a lot of other.
Speaker 2: Generalists that are just uh, especially the paranormal generalists who
Speaker 2: are trying like the Grand unification theory of paranormality or whatever.
Speaker 2: Like those people they're coming from a very different place,
Speaker 2: very and of course they're there. I think that their
Speaker 2: information pools are are kind of vustly poisoned, essentially that
Speaker 2: I don't think they are familiar with the John Green books.
Speaker 2: For example. They might they might know who John Green
Speaker 2: is and feel like they've done their homework, but I
Speaker 2: doubt they've read them. You know, I read them very thoroughly,
Speaker 2: or certainly not multiple times. Because they're getting their sources
Speaker 2: from other places like Lapsterritis or somewhere like that, because
Speaker 2: that's what they're drawn towards. They're drawn that direction, so
Speaker 2: that's their primary sources. Instead of going to the actual
Speaker 2: primary sources of the field, they're going for the places
Speaker 2: that overlap and then they can access those kinds of resources.
Speaker 2: I can't blame somebody for being so wrong about the
Speaker 2: Patterson Gimblin film date. If their whole gig is I
Speaker 2: don't know what pruvi and mummies or whatever you said earlier,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter, Like that's not what they do. I
Speaker 2: don't expect them to be insanely accurate, you know. Where
Speaker 2: Whereas if you know, somebody has a bigfoot blog or
Speaker 2: a podcast or something, I do expect a little bit
Speaker 2: more out of them, I think, But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know because I don't might I might be
Speaker 2: interested slightly in UFOs, I might have seen a couple
Speaker 2: of them or something, but I don't care. At the
Speaker 2: end of the day, it's cool, it's neat, but I
Speaker 2: don't care. I'm not an expert on I'm not going
Speaker 2: to pretend to be.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just don't see. I just don't see the overlap. Certainly,
Speaker 2: a lot of different conferences that I speak at have
Speaker 2: the paranormal element represented, and I'm looking forward to the
Speaker 2: day that we can go to a Bigfoot conference and
Speaker 2: learn about the wildlife biology behind it, just like one
Speaker 2: would expect by going to a wolf conference or a
Speaker 2: wolverine conference, or a bear conference or any of those
Speaker 2: other perfectly normal animals. So I think that's my whole thing.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo.
Speaker 2: Will be right back after these messages. As doctor Meldrem
Speaker 2: and I spoke about back in June, it's like, if
Speaker 2: not us who you know, like, if our voices in
Speaker 2: the field are not present, all they're going to get
Speaker 2: is the wacky stuff and then does that do any
Speaker 2: damage to the subject And the answer is probably yes.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, maybe my time is best
Speaker 2: spent elsewhere, you know, like on the podcast for example.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was going to say, is that
Speaker 1: it is a different time I think because I used
Speaker 1: to think that too. It's like, well, if I don't
Speaker 1: go speak there, then an ecologically or biologically grounded point
Speaker 1: of view is not going to be on the table.
Speaker 1: And so am I obligated to do that. But then
Speaker 1: at the same time, while in this world of interconnectivity,
Speaker 1: it's like, well, we can talk on this podcast every
Speaker 1: week twice a week, you know, for regular listeners and
Speaker 1: our members, and then you know, I wrote a book
Speaker 1: and put that out there that's accessible, you know, and
Speaker 1: so it's like, well, that's that's me putting that perspective
Speaker 1: out into the world. It doesn't necessarily mean I have
Speaker 1: to participate in every single event that extends an invite
Speaker 1: if it doesn't make sense, because you know, I'm not
Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think that it reaches as many people.
Speaker 1: And you know, the great thing about this podcast or
Speaker 1: other podcast, it's like, if you're a regular listener like
Speaker 1: it's free, you know. Yeah, you have to skip through
Speaker 1: some ads. That's the only price of admission, you know,
Speaker 1: And you can listen to it on your own time
Speaker 1: and those kind of things. And it's permanent. It's on
Speaker 1: the internet forever for as long as the Internet shall
Speaker 1: exist in this form or other forms that carry into
Speaker 1: the future.
Speaker 2: Versus like a.
Speaker 1: Lot of times at an event, you know, there's ten speakers.
Speaker 1: I'm somewhere in the middle, and I just know that, like,
Speaker 1: these people are exhausted because they've heard a lot of
Speaker 1: They've had a lot of information thrown at them, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, this room full of people, that's a limited number.
Speaker 1: They're going to forget eighty five percent of what I
Speaker 1: said by the time their butts get out of the
Speaker 1: seats to take a break between me and the next speaker,
Speaker 1: and they can't re access it because it's not online
Speaker 1: and accessible. So I do think that, you know, this
Speaker 1: has definitely supplanted that and taken the place of that
Speaker 1: and serves that purpose. And this is more like a
Speaker 1: retail store in the sense that like, if you're interested,
Speaker 1: you can walk in the front door. We've got a
Speaker 1: sign out front, you know what we offer if you're
Speaker 1: interested in that perspective, come on in, hang out. You know,
Speaker 1: at an event, very often you are being sort of
Speaker 1: like thrust in front of people that might not be
Speaker 1: there to hear. They might be there to hear someone
Speaker 1: with a totally diametrically opposed perspective, and that's totally fine,
Speaker 1: that's great, But at the same time, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: how much does that benefit you or them? You know,
Speaker 1: that makes you sort of like the salesman now, Like
Speaker 1: now you're going door to door, knocking and saying, hey,
Speaker 1: can I interest you in what I got? You know,
Speaker 1: at most I don't like that. I don't like when
Speaker 1: people do that to me. I've had jobs where I
Speaker 1: was in outbound sales and I hated it. Whereas like
Speaker 1: if you worked in retail, like if I worked in
Speaker 1: a guitar store, I love guitars, I'll just hang out
Speaker 1: here if you're interested in one, you can walk in
Speaker 1: if you go, hey, man, what do you think about
Speaker 1: this piece of gear? Like, oh, I'm happy to talk
Speaker 1: about what I like or what might work for you,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to go knock on your door
Speaker 1: and say, hey, can I interest you in picking up
Speaker 1: a guitar. You know it's and that can be what
Speaker 1: those big conferences are.
Speaker 2: Like, you know what I don't like is that the
Speaker 2: being sharing the same stage with that kind of like
Speaker 2: such a variety of perspectives I find is confusing to
Speaker 2: the audience and to delay people. That's like, Oh, I
Speaker 2: like that TV show. I'm going to come in and
Speaker 2: listen to what they have to say. I want to
Speaker 2: learn a little bit about bigfoot, what the experts have
Speaker 2: to say about them, right and they And I had
Speaker 2: one lady come up to my table at a job
Speaker 2: this year and she said, but you're saying that there
Speaker 2: is an animal. This other person is saying that they're this,
Speaker 2: and and that's another person said that they're this, And like,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to think. I don't know what
Speaker 2: And I just said, hey, you know what, look at
Speaker 2: the evidence of what everybody's putting forth. What seems to
Speaker 2: be the most logical to you? What what is making
Speaker 2: the fewest assumptions, what jibes with your worldview? And you
Speaker 2: decide I'm not going to tell you what to think.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm just I'm telling you what i'm finding
Speaker 2: and the other people are doing maybe something similar, or
Speaker 2: maybe they're telling you what to think. You would make
Speaker 2: the decision way way what we've all shared and you
Speaker 2: come to the decision of what you think is going on.
Speaker 2: Because all my presentations, I'm just saying, well, this is
Speaker 2: what i'm finding, Look what I found, Look at this,
Speaker 2: and this is what I'm how and I'm interpreting it.
Speaker 2: I'm not telling you what these things are, what they're doing,
Speaker 2: or you know that kind of stuff. I'm just saying that, like,
Speaker 2: this is what I find. But this poor lady, I remember,
Speaker 2: she was very distraught because she had two or three
Speaker 2: different views on sasquatch presented to her by what she
Speaker 2: thought were experts, and what are you supposed to do
Speaker 2: with that?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: And I felt bad for her. So and if I
Speaker 2: don't know, I'm feeling this time to shift gears a
Speaker 2: little bit in my own professional life, I think, and
Speaker 2: I feel like I've been saddled with a certain level
Speaker 2: of responsibility by doctor Jeff Meldrum, of course, you know,
Speaker 2: with him leaving me an entire collection, and I think
Speaker 2: it's time to up my game a little bit. Maybe,
Speaker 2: And because I think that, I think Darby's going to
Speaker 2: do it in the next couple of years. I think
Speaker 2: I think the mystery is going to be done in
Speaker 2: the next five or eight years probably, and then what
Speaker 2: well I want to be a part of it, still, right,
Speaker 2: the better I present myself, the higher the chance is
Speaker 2: going to be that I can continue participating and learning
Speaker 2: about the animals.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that you should be like I'm just
Speaker 3: saying like you should be like so contemptuous sounding when
Speaker 3: you when you condemn the people that think there's more
Speaker 3: to Bigfoot than just straight up this undiscovered primate. Maybe
Speaker 3: I don't think we're contemptuous as much.
Speaker 1: Well, at least from my perspective. I'm just trying to
Speaker 1: offer an alternative perspective that is generous.
Speaker 3: Well, that sounds more contemptuous for sure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well I am, I absolutely am. Matt has always
Speaker 2: been more generous to ridiculous points of view than I am.
Speaker 2: Absolutely there you go again, Cliff, Well, you.
Speaker 1: Know, to beat this example to death, but maybe there's
Speaker 1: new listeners that haven't heard it. Like, you know, the
Speaker 1: way that you experience the world, there is a validity
Speaker 1: to that experience. And so the simplest example that I
Speaker 1: always use in presentations and public talks is to say, like,
Speaker 1: you experience the Sun as it moves around you from
Speaker 1: your perspective. So any description from across time that you
Speaker 1: know the Earth is the center of the Solar system,
Speaker 1: of the galaxy or the universe is completely defensible, because
Speaker 1: if you were to go outside and stand and watch
Speaker 1: the movement of the Sun, it would come up one
Speaker 1: side of you and go up above and around and
Speaker 1: down the other side of you. And so that is
Speaker 1: a phenomenologically authentic description of the movement of heavenly bodies.
Speaker 1: And so there's nothing inaccurate about that worldview, although it
Speaker 1: is not It does not have a one to one
Speaker 1: relationship with objective reality. And it took us a very
Speaker 1: long time to figure out that we're on a sphere,
Speaker 1: a spinning sphere that rotates around orbits around the Sun.
Speaker 1: And so I think you can apply that same logic
Speaker 1: to so many of these cases to say, like, I
Speaker 1: understand that your experience was authentic. I do think that
Speaker 1: there's another way to look at the cause of that
Speaker 1: experience or where that experience is being generated from, rather
Speaker 1: than saying that you know, a sasquatch with some supernatural
Speaker 1: abilities did that to you, that you had an authentic experience.
Speaker 1: You're experiencing real psychological, physiological, neurological responses that are common
Speaker 1: and universal, which is why people describe the same experience
Speaker 1: with other animals and in UFO encounters and during aparitional experiences,
Speaker 1: on and on and on. But to say like that's
Speaker 1: the most likely explanation is that that's common to the
Speaker 1: human experience because it's happening within the human observer. And
Speaker 1: so I'm not saying like those people are lying or
Speaker 1: that they're wrong, or that they made up the story,
Speaker 1: or that they're crazy or delusional, just trying to say, like,
Speaker 1: there is a reality to the experience, but maybe you're
Speaker 1: putting the onus in the wrong place, And here's another
Speaker 1: way to look at it, to reframe. Just like, no
Speaker 1: one's lying when they say the sun revolves around them.
Speaker 1: You know they're not misleading anyone, and they're not crazy
Speaker 1: and delusional. It's like two shades of truth, experiential truth
Speaker 1: and objective truth, and they're both very very important, but
Speaker 1: they do need to be sort of categorized as such
Speaker 1: to say, like, well, what's going on here from an
Speaker 1: objective standpoint, because that matters to us in one part
Speaker 1: of our endeavor and what's happening from an experiential standpoint,
Speaker 1: because that's just as important, you know, because we're not objects,
Speaker 1: we're subjects, so the subjective is important, but it has
Speaker 1: to be delineated. And I just think that that's an
Speaker 1: important thing to do with these cases too, rather than
Speaker 1: to go, yeah, well we've explained it with everything else.
Speaker 1: But the sasquatch really is the shape shifting, mind reading,
Speaker 1: moral judge that can mediate between the physical realm and
Speaker 1: the other realm.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and ridiculous points of view doesn't mean the person
Speaker 2: is lying or even wrong about what you know. Their interpretation,
Speaker 2: I think is incorrect, but their observations may be valid,
Speaker 2: and then there's nothing wrong with that. And I know
Speaker 2: a lot of people who think that way, and there's
Speaker 2: nothing wrong with think in that way other than it's
Speaker 2: probably incorrect, you know. But when I hear, because I mean,
Speaker 2: you've been told the same things. I'm sure I think
Speaker 2: all the listeners have who have dabbled in this at all.
Speaker 2: I've been told that sasquatches are from outer space. I've
Speaker 2: been told that they're from inner space, whatever that means.
Speaker 2: I've been told that they're from other dimensions. I have
Speaker 2: been told that they're from inside the hollow Earth. I
Speaker 2: have been told that they're time travelers. I have been
Speaker 2: told that they that they're gods. I have been told
Speaker 2: that they're devils. I have been told that they're angels.
Speaker 2: I have been told that they're they're neutral beings. I've
Speaker 2: been told that they're here to take away the glory
Speaker 2: of Jesus. I have been told that, I mean, I
Speaker 2: could go down, I can go on and on. And
Speaker 2: all of those things are under the umbrella of paranormal.
Speaker 2: I don't believe any of them, certainly don't believe all
Speaker 2: of them. But the model, the paranormal model, is not
Speaker 2: self congruent, you know. It's it's not something that you
Speaker 2: can hang your hat on. It's not even a thing.
Speaker 2: It's all these different beliefs. I've been told that, oh,
Speaker 2: they're earth spirits. There's another one that the yea, I
Speaker 2: don't know. It goes on and on and on. Why
Speaker 2: would I believe that they're paranormal when the paranormal doesn't
Speaker 2: even agree with themselves. It seems that the only thing
Speaker 2: that the paranormal people can agree on is that the
Speaker 2: ape hypothesis is ridiculous and stupid, yes, and I don't
Speaker 2: it seems to be the only one that like holds
Speaker 2: together with any sort of cohesion. So I'm just going
Speaker 2: where my brain tells me to go and and not
Speaker 2: where a huge variety of people have told me that
Speaker 2: is true, you know. So I don't know. It just
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense to me because very few of those
Speaker 2: things sound logical to me, and none of them literally
Speaker 2: none of them seems to be supported by what I
Speaker 2: see personally out in the woods.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that people that I find very trustworthy
Speaker 3: and good character and judgment have had these experiences that
Speaker 3: are freaking bizarre, and I don't know what the cause was,
Speaker 3: and some of it in conjunction with you know, Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: with other weird stuff like the orbs or whatnot. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's just the fact that there's no physical evidence, like
Speaker 3: remains that we know of that we can point to
Speaker 3: from anywhere in the world. Is you know, just it's
Speaker 3: it's bizarre, and I know you gotta say it's not,
Speaker 3: but it is.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's explainable, But I honestly think, like
Speaker 1: if it came down to a decision tree where I was,
Speaker 1: you know, like a gun to head decision. If it
Speaker 1: was like, how do you explain the lack of any
Speaker 1: physical remains in spite of all these claimed experiences. To me,
Speaker 1: the most likely answer would be like, well, they don't exist,
Speaker 1: and we're having like a slew of psychological experiences. We're
Speaker 1: having a slew of misidentifications and misinterpretations of the natural world.
Speaker 1: There's a slew of liars and fabricators. But despite all that,
Speaker 1: you know, there's real stimuli out in the woods. I
Speaker 1: know that because I've heard it. You know, I've heard vocalizations.
Speaker 1: I've had seemingly like projectiles, stone at me rocks. I've
Speaker 1: had this host of experiences that are consistent with the
Speaker 1: sasquatch phenomenon. But I think if all that continue to fail,
Speaker 1: I got, well, maybe they just don't exist and I've
Speaker 1: just been misinterpreting all this. I think that would be
Speaker 1: more likely than going, yeah, well, they're just the shape
Speaker 1: shifting UFO writing metaphysical portal hoppers who can read my
Speaker 1: mind and they know I'm looking for them, and so
Speaker 1: they'll never let me find Like, to me, if I
Speaker 1: had to choose that, I just think that, you know,
Speaker 1: one thing I think is important to point out is
Speaker 1: that when you're interacting with people, we're playing a game
Speaker 1: of sorts, but we're not playing the same game.
Speaker 3: We're not playing by the same.
Speaker 1: Rules, because I think the rules that Cliff follows that
Speaker 1: I follow are like, I'm trying to put more constraints
Speaker 1: on myself and more restrictions on myself than any of
Speaker 1: the detractors would put on me. And so for starters,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to violate any of the axioms of
Speaker 1: any given field for this purpose. Let's say it's biology, zoology, ecology,
Speaker 1: et cetera. So that's a set of constraints. I'm not
Speaker 1: going to invoke things beyond the known if I can
Speaker 1: help it. I mean, obviously we're in the realm of
Speaker 1: the unknown, but I'm not going to reach for an
Speaker 1: equally mysterious phenomena as an explanation. So within that set
Speaker 1: of constraints, it's like, could there be an ape from
Speaker 1: one of these lineages that made it to North America
Speaker 1: that are very rare, that have long lives, that are
Speaker 1: being experienced by the human psyche in such a way
Speaker 1: that leaves them with the impression, the phenomenological impression that
Speaker 1: they were A, B, and C. And so that's the
Speaker 1: premise of the whole book to say, like, within all
Speaker 1: these extreme constraints that I put on myself, can I
Speaker 1: explain the entirety of the phenomenon? Yes, here's my argument.
Speaker 1: Do you take it or leave it. It doesn't mean anyone's going.
Speaker 3: To agree with it.
Speaker 1: But I think when we're talking about dealing with these
Speaker 1: other people, the difference is they have no such constraints. Whatsoever,
Speaker 1: anything goes, any explanation is equally valid. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: if it violates any of the principles of any discipline,
Speaker 1: any field. It doesn't matter how many unknowns they have
Speaker 1: to reach for. And so that's where I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that disconnect is where it's like, well, you know,
Speaker 1: I wish I could just reach for any explanation and say, oh, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: the reason we can't find them is because they're powered
Speaker 1: by gamma radiation and can do this. But I don't
Speaker 1: have that ability because I've chosen my own shackles, and
Speaker 1: I chose the shackles of that I just described, of
Speaker 1: the known and things of that nature. So I think
Speaker 1: that's where a lot of that frustration comes from. But
Speaker 1: I do think that what I can offer is a
Speaker 1: unified theory of sorts that says, like, well, here's how
Speaker 1: it could be that these animals could exist and still
Speaker 1: be unrecognized. I wouldn't say undiscovered, just like Bin and Nagel,
Speaker 1: like many people have discovered them much to their own
Speaker 1: you know, if we believe the claims, and here's how
Speaker 1: it could be that we don't have a substantial portion
Speaker 1: of a specimen yet, on and on and on, and
Speaker 1: I think until that explanation, at least for me, this
Speaker 1: fails to suffice, then I can widen it a little
Speaker 1: bit more to accommodate whatever needs to be accommodated. Rather
Speaker 1: than saying, well, we'll just break the whole the whole model,
Speaker 1: all the walls and to let anything in. It's like,
Speaker 1: now we'll start here, and if that fails to be sufficient,
Speaker 1: widen the circle a little bit. And if that fails
Speaker 1: to be sufficient. You know, it's the same with any
Speaker 1: sort of like hypothesis generation and science. I mean that's
Speaker 1: what you do. You try to generate the simplest hypothesis possible,
Speaker 1: and if it fails to be an explanation, you modified
Speaker 1: a bit and it gets slightly more complex, only as
Speaker 1: complex as it needs to be to explain the phenomena observed.
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to think of a good.
Speaker 1: Rebuttal and I appreciate that, you know, other people don't
Speaker 1: work with those same constraints, And that's that's totally mind
Speaker 1: that that is, you.
Speaker 3: Know, I get I'm not I'm not bad mouth from that.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that. And and Cliff should be should
Speaker 3: be taken that. I mean, Cliff should just be focused
Speaker 3: completely on three dimensional you know species, you know, you
Speaker 3: know from the animal kingdom. That's pretty because if we
Speaker 3: want to get I want to know, I want to
Speaker 3: know more about how they live, like, how how do
Speaker 3: they like? What's their day to day like I want
Speaker 3: to know all that. And that's not going to happen
Speaker 3: by doing conferences and books on UFOs and bigfoots.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bogo will be right back after these messages. And also,
Speaker 2: it's so much about interpretation, and I've been saying the
Speaker 2: interpretation versus observation is a huge soft spot in our world.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, it's like that witness I think
Speaker 2: I talked about it a couple of weeks ago. Like
Speaker 2: that guy who saw went out by Heppner when he
Speaker 2: was hunting in November, he saw one of these things.
Speaker 2: He actually saw two. I believe he saw a very
Speaker 2: large one go into a clump of bushes, and then
Speaker 2: he told me that the thing shape shifted into a
Speaker 2: human size thing and walked away. But I think a
Speaker 2: simpler explanation is that there were two because from what
Speaker 2: I personally find in the woods, I think they travel
Speaker 2: in small groups. I don't think that they're clumped together
Speaker 2: like fish schooling. I think when I say they travel
Speaker 2: together in small groups, that there's one or two or
Speaker 2: two or three of these things within a couple hundred
Speaker 2: yards of each other as they move through the woods,
Speaker 2: based on the footprint tracks that I have personally found
Speaker 2: and observed.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: So again, I'm like I think I said this last
Speaker 2: week or a couple of weeks ago, that I'm trying
Speaker 2: to rely less and less on what other people tell
Speaker 2: me and trying to put more stock in what I
Speaker 2: find and questioning what I mean I take. Okay, so
Speaker 2: somebody says this, I wonder if what I'm finding in
Speaker 2: the woods supports this idea or not. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't take any what anybody else says is truth anymore.
Speaker 2: I just take it as an idea, and I kind
Speaker 2: of see if my own findings support that, you know,
Speaker 2: or it doesn't even seem logical, you know, which is
Speaker 2: I guess my own findings. But I think the guy
Speaker 2: probably saw two of them, an eight footer and a
Speaker 2: six footer. One went in the bushes, the other one
Speaker 2: walked out of the bushes. But I don't think it
Speaker 2: was the eight footer shape shifting into a smaller one.
Speaker 2: That doesn't seem logical, especially when I my evidence, my
Speaker 2: personal experience, which is what I was talking about earlier,
Speaker 2: that people should afford me that same courtesy that I have.
Speaker 2: My own experiences indicate that they move in groups. There's
Speaker 2: very often more than one around, you know, So I
Speaker 2: don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's all about interpretation, and I guess what level of
Speaker 2: magical thinking you're used to. And that's what it kind
Speaker 2: of comes down to. Magical thinking. I mean, the world,
Speaker 2: the universe is a magical, magical place. It's astonishing. The
Speaker 2: whole that we exist at all is literally a miracle,
Speaker 2: you know, like that some sort of cosmic soup made
Speaker 2: Cliff's dour consciousness. You know, I think that's amazing. Bobo
Speaker 2: himself is a miracle, you know, in more ways than
Speaker 2: I could possibly express. But it's just about an interpretation,
Speaker 2: you know, interpretation and and what your world view is,
Speaker 2: like those cultural filters that you see the world through.
Speaker 2: This guy apparently believes shape shifting is a more logical
Speaker 2: explanation there than there were two of them. And when
Speaker 2: I asked, well, why would you think that its shape
Speaker 2: shifted instead of there were two of them there, he goes, Oh,
Speaker 2: I just can't imagine something that large being able to
Speaker 2: hide effectively.
Speaker 3: Well, people will underestimate, like their ability to just see.
Speaker 3: I was listening to another podcast catmember who as it was,
Speaker 3: But this guy was describing how this thing, like how
Speaker 3: these things like hidden playing sight, you know, like some
Speaker 3: other people came from another direction of these things just
Speaker 3: like you know, pressed up against a tree. And he said,
Speaker 3: like it like looked like it was just a part
Speaker 3: of the tree, like a like a big chuck of
Speaker 3: burrow or something, you know, like you know, it was daylight,
Speaker 3: you know, it was there are some shadows and stuff
Speaker 3: cast across it. So it wasn't like direct slide on
Speaker 3: the whole thing tend to toe, but you know it
Speaker 3: was it was totally visible. And he watched it, you know,
Speaker 3: go up next to the tree and just and the
Speaker 3: like blend in and then there was a second squatch
Speaker 3: and it laid down and it just laid down and froze.
Speaker 3: And these people just were walking along takeing a hike
Speaker 3: and just walked right by him and I didn't even notice.
Speaker 1: And you know, in daylight, I've had that experience like
Speaker 1: with other people where a couple of years ago, I
Speaker 1: was with Mike Mays down in North Georgia. We were
Speaker 1: filming something for this thing. So we had this little
Speaker 1: film crew, so there was Mike and I and then
Speaker 1: these three people in this film crew. They had opened
Speaker 1: the gate to this area. It's only opened for a
Speaker 1: little while just for the hunting season, and it was
Speaker 1: prior to the hunting season, so it hadn't officially started yet,
Speaker 1: but the gate was open so people could go in
Speaker 1: there and access it, or I guess, you know, if
Speaker 1: they run dogs or whatever, go in and get their dogs.
Speaker 1: So we were back in this place and this truck
Speaker 1: started coming down the road, which I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's a bummer. Because it was during the middle of
Speaker 1: the week. I didn't think there'd be anyone out there.
Speaker 1: But I was like, wow, the gate is opened. I
Speaker 1: was like, everybody, just step off the road a couple
Speaker 1: of feet, and so we just stepped into the brush.
Speaker 1: Weren't that obscured. And you know, Mike and I are
Speaker 1: wearing earth tones, but the crews wearing like red and yellow,
Speaker 1: like bright colors. And this car drove right past us
Speaker 1: and then got to the creek and decided not to cross,
Speaker 1: and like looked and backed up and never once looked
Speaker 1: in our direction. And I'm like, I'm ninety nine percent
Speaker 1: sure that person had no idea that there were five
Speaker 1: humans standing ten feet from his truck. That was all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, and it just and I pointed
Speaker 1: that out to the crew. I was like, do you
Speaker 1: notice that guy. I don't think he even sauce here.
Speaker 1: We were standing right there, right off the road, and
Speaker 1: they were wearing bright colors, you know, and he never
Speaker 1: saw it. And a lot of it has to do
Speaker 1: with expectation, you know, he probably didn't expect to see,
Speaker 1: you know, a group of people out there standing around
Speaker 1: or whatever. But because you know, usually you'd wave everybody
Speaker 1: like oh hey, sorry or whatever. The case, may'd be
Speaker 1: some some level of acknowledgment. But but yeah, I think
Speaker 1: you can imagine that that's the same reason that people
Speaker 1: thought that tyger could vanish into the spirit realm, you know,
Speaker 1: because they could materialize from nothing and then vanish back
Speaker 1: into thin air. And like, these are animals that are
Speaker 1: very adept at hiding. And then we heard all of
Speaker 1: Gareth Patterson's descriptions about how hard it was to observe
Speaker 1: these elephants, and those are elephants. Man, They're not small,
Speaker 1: and they're not stealthy, you know, they're not quiet or
Speaker 1: I think that gives rise to beliefs. When Cliff was
Speaker 1: talking about the individual likely seeing a second sasquatch and
Speaker 1: assuming it had shape shifted, how many legends have you
Speaker 1: heard about that attribute the power of ventriloquism to sasquatches,
Speaker 1: that they can throw their voices and sound like they're
Speaker 1: coming from a different direction. And you think, well, what
Speaker 1: experience would give rise to that belief? Oh, well, if
Speaker 1: you're seeing one, or you see one enter one woodline
Speaker 1: and then you hear a sound from the woodline behind you,
Speaker 1: You would it be easier to assume that the thing
Speaker 1: you saw made that sound from a different direction, or
Speaker 1: should you assume like, oh man, there's two of them
Speaker 1: out here, you know, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So I
Speaker 1: think there's a whole lot of those. That's what I
Speaker 1: try to go into such great linked about. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: let's look at all these legends or folkloric mythological sort
Speaker 1: of elements and say like, oh, there's very reasonable, very
Speaker 1: real explanations for all these and it's no wonder that
Speaker 1: someone would believe that this animal is capable of doing
Speaker 1: this because they're having real experiences. I just think there
Speaker 1: are simpler explanations.
Speaker 3: Right yeah, yeah, But I think I don't think it
Speaker 3: explains everything every time, Like I think there's something the
Speaker 3: experienced things that are just I mean that I think
Speaker 3: as far as I'm disappearing that kind of stuffing, that's
Speaker 3: their ability to I think their ability to hide and
Speaker 3: something that may be able to hide and play site
Speaker 3: is is much much better than people can even fathom.
Speaker 3: But on the same sense, there's plenty of people that
Speaker 3: are good observers that you know, like like, for instance,
Speaker 3: military guys out on training exercises like like infantry and
Speaker 3: special forces type guys, you know, and recon all that,
Speaker 3: and they they go out there and you know, well,
Speaker 3: I guess they're not armed when they're doing exercises, like
Speaker 3: they don't have live amma, but I don't just yeah,
Speaker 3: they can hide, but and they get seen. But I
Speaker 3: mean just the fact that we don't have anything like
Speaker 3: concrete from their personage, like their actual physical body like
Speaker 3: that we can poinch is that just seems bizarre, dude,
Speaker 3: Like it's you can say, oh this, this is that.
Speaker 3: But they Okay, so the panda bear whatever, that's been
Speaker 3: one hundred and twenty one hundred and thirty years now,
Speaker 3: we've we've had those or more. Gorilla is the same thing.
Speaker 3: It's like one hundred and twenty something years since we've
Speaker 3: got and they were doing that stuff back when they
Speaker 3: before they even have flashlights and walkie talkies or you
Speaker 3: know anything. I mean, like no monitoring equipment. No, you know,
Speaker 3: it's just.
Speaker 1: Who's pursuing a physical specimen in the last since the
Speaker 1: dawn of sasquatchry, let's say, in nineteen fifty eight, when
Speaker 1: when people really started to pursue living sasquatches intentionally.
Speaker 2: Not a lot. I've got your pictures of Krantz walking
Speaker 2: around with the gun and the Blues with Freeman.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one guy.
Speaker 2: Seen some stuff down in Bluff Creek in the nineteen sixties,
Speaker 2: those guys like John. I think I had seen John
Speaker 2: Green with a rifle on his back at some point.
Speaker 1: What Green described to me when I was with him
Speaker 1: was he was like, oh, I had no business Karen rifle.
Speaker 1: I didn't know what I was doing. We didn't know
Speaker 1: anything about these animals. We're just walking the roads hoping
Speaker 1: to get lucky.
Speaker 3: He said.
Speaker 1: It wasn't anything like a real hunt. And in terms
Speaker 1: of like finding intentionally looking for or intentionally trying to
Speaker 1: find remains, like you can scour the histories of you know,
Speaker 1: the Bigfoot research project in the BFRO and the NAWAC
Speaker 1: and the Olympic project, like no one's looking for remains.
Speaker 1: Most people are keeping an eye out if they stumble
Speaker 1: across it, they'd pay attention to it or maybe try
Speaker 1: to collect it and turn it in somewhere, But there's
Speaker 1: no intent and that most people are trying to encounter
Speaker 1: living sasquatches, either to observe them, with their own eyes,
Speaker 1: or to take photographs or get video, or to put
Speaker 1: up game cameras, or to find tracks. And that's about it.
Speaker 1: You know, no one's you can look at that whole
Speaker 1: history of the pursuit and go, like, show me the
Speaker 1: person who's actively you know, searching, really searching for remains again,
Speaker 1: not just hiking and keeping an eye open. It's not there.
Speaker 3: There's tons of like geologists stuff they're doing other things
Speaker 3: that they could come across, or biologists that the remains
Speaker 3: saying yes, that's I mean, there's there's enough guns in
Speaker 3: the world, dude, like around that are capable of bringing
Speaker 3: something down, especially if you keep saying, how you know,
Speaker 3: like a lot of them are man's size. There's definitely
Speaker 3: a lot of firearms you could take those down, like
Speaker 3: a lot to me.
Speaker 1: Like the point I try to make in conversations and
Speaker 1: in the book is like, let's say someone does have
Speaker 1: a sighting and while they're hunting, Well, most game that
Speaker 1: you're hunting is you know, you're you're probably not going
Speaker 1: to be carrying a firearm that's going to generate like
Speaker 1: an immediate lethal wound.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but there's enough guys that bear hunt and moose
Speaker 3: hunt and elk hunt that have way significant enough firepower
Speaker 3: to bring down an animal that's only you know, say
Speaker 3: five hundred or seven hundred whatever pounds. There's lots of
Speaker 3: arm dunners out there like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, But the majority of people hunting, you know,
Speaker 1: just by the numbers you're going to say, are going
Speaker 1: to be like birds, turkeys, deer, you know, a lot
Speaker 1: smaller things and so yes, so now I know. But
Speaker 1: if you restrict that within all hunters to the people
Speaker 1: that have the firepower, that still doesn't mean that a
Speaker 1: shot is going to be immediately lethal. And so the
Speaker 1: way that I break it down is like a sighting
Speaker 1: might not even mean a shot opportunity. You might see one.
Speaker 1: You might be able to, you know, once you get
Speaker 1: past the confusion or shock or what am I looking
Speaker 1: at or whatever the case may be. So let's say
Speaker 1: that you move from siding to shot opportunity. Well, a
Speaker 1: shot opportunity doesn't even mean that a shot will be
Speaker 1: taken because the person might be so shocked or confused again,
Speaker 1: or decide that maybe that's a person or it's certainly
Speaker 1: like a person and I'm not going to shoot, or
Speaker 1: I don't.
Speaker 3: Know what it is.
Speaker 1: So let's say, okay, we'll skip that. Let's say the
Speaker 1: shot is taken. Well, the shot taken does not guarantee
Speaker 1: that that shot will hit the animal. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a whole host of factors that can go into that.
Speaker 1: But let's say it does hit the animal. Okay, A
Speaker 1: shot hitting the animal doesn't even mean it's going to
Speaker 1: be a lethal wound. You know, it might be a
Speaker 1: very sustainable, survivable wound. Let's say, okay, skip that it
Speaker 1: is a lethal wound. Okay, Well, a lethal wound could
Speaker 1: be it dies four days from now, it runs a
Speaker 1: mile and dies, it runs five miles and dies. You know,
Speaker 1: it dies a month later after you know, infection and injury,
Speaker 1: and it's unable to get calories and it basically starves
Speaker 1: to death or something. And so think of all the
Speaker 1: planets that have to align for a hunter with the
Speaker 1: right firepower to see a sasquatch fire or shot that
Speaker 1: makes you know, a lethal wound where the thing drops
Speaker 1: in a place where it's accessible and recoverable. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a whole lot of things that have to line
Speaker 1: up perfectly to equate to a hunter sees a sasquatch
Speaker 1: shoots it and brings it in somewhere.
Speaker 3: Not the biggest thing that I that I point to
Speaker 3: you on that is that because I still say they
Speaker 3: carry they carry off they're wounded or dead, they're not
Speaker 3: going to leave them there for you to grab them.
Speaker 1: Or even if someone dropped one and another one just
Speaker 1: started acting aggressively and like didn't even you know, pick
Speaker 1: it up and carry it off, just scared the person
Speaker 1: out of there. But I think the most likely thing
Speaker 1: is even if you shot one lethally, how far is
Speaker 1: it going to go before it drops dead? Because one
Speaker 1: of the things that I learned from, you know, interviewing
Speaker 1: a lot of people who have a lot of experience
Speaker 1: with big animals, is like, most of the time they
Speaker 1: don't drop dead. You know, there's people that have you know,
Speaker 1: double lung shot deer and had the deer run hundreds
Speaker 1: of yards before it went down. And that's a little
Speaker 1: deer with a big rifle, and so some big animal
Speaker 1: that it's like, yeah, maybe it was a lethal wound
Speaker 1: and you'll never find the thing because wherever it ran
Speaker 1: to like, you're just not gonna you're not gonna find it.
Speaker 1: So to me, I don't have that much problem with
Speaker 1: the proposition that, like there's a lot of hunters out
Speaker 1: there and yet no one's ever bagged. And it's like, well,
Speaker 1: we talk to people who shot at them, and we've
Speaker 1: talked to people who claim to hit them, and then
Speaker 1: we talk to people a tiny number who claim to
Speaker 1: have shot and killed them. But in a lot of
Speaker 1: those cases, like they weren't recoverable, or if they were,
Speaker 1: the person opted and said like I don't want to
Speaker 1: deal with this, and they could see the sort of
Speaker 1: like life flash before their eyes of like what is
Speaker 1: what's going to become of my life if I have
Speaker 1: to deal with this, and they just decide not to
Speaker 1: talk about it for years. You know, if like Paul
Speaker 1: Shabaga or some of these other stories are true, I
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with any of that. So to me,
Speaker 1: the fact that like a hunter's never brought one in,
Speaker 1: I don't see that as being like, oh, there must
Speaker 1: be something more mysterious going on other than that, like
Speaker 1: people rarely see them, most of the people that see
Speaker 1: them are not armed, Most of the hunters that see
Speaker 1: them are not taking shots, and of those that do,
Speaker 1: like a lot of them probably aren't even hitting them.
Speaker 1: And if they do hit them, they're not lethal, and
Speaker 1: if they are lethal wounds, they're not findable or recoverable.
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 2: Bobo will be right back after these messages. You know,
Speaker 2: how I approach the mystery the more mysterious questions that
Speaker 2: Bobo is rightly asking. You know, I think that Bobo
Speaker 2: has a lot of interesting points, and those are good questions,
Speaker 2: and so therefore there are probably some good answers for them.
Speaker 2: And I see a lot of these things as opportunities
Speaker 2: to ask the right kinds of questions. For example, like, okay,
Speaker 2: so no one no one finds remains right, Well, that's
Speaker 2: true of bears and Cougar's and we all know that.
Speaker 2: We've talked about it in a million times, right, everybody
Speaker 2: knows those things. But so what does that tell us
Speaker 2: about the kinds of places they do put themselves when
Speaker 2: they die? You know, maybe Bobo is right and they
Speaker 2: bury their dead or something that's that's on the table,
Speaker 2: and if that is, if that is not true, what
Speaker 2: does that teach us about those kinds of places? Okay, So,
Speaker 2: so a lot of people have taken shots of these
Speaker 2: things and probably hit the animal. What does that teach
Speaker 2: us about the animals? Like, I think these these omissions
Speaker 2: of answers, you know, these questions that you ask that
Speaker 2: we don't have good answers instead of going to the
Speaker 2: paranormal realm to explain it, which I think many other
Speaker 2: researchers back in this set, I think that that's the
Speaker 2: quick and easy way to get the answers that you
Speaker 2: might be looking for. But I think there's other possibilities.
Speaker 2: What do those omissions in the information we have about
Speaker 2: the animal teach us about the animal? I think that
Speaker 2: is very interesting and very instructive in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: So if you shoot one and doesn't bring it down,
Speaker 2: what does that teach us? Does it tell us something
Speaker 2: about the how their muscle mass is so dense? Does
Speaker 2: it teach us something about how I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: adrenaline kicks in and they run for two miles or
Speaker 2: something and then drop there. I think the answers to
Speaker 2: those questions can teach us a lot about the animals, basically,
Speaker 2: is what it comes down to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I agree with that. Yeah, And I'm just
Speaker 3: saying I'm not saying like I think, I'm not saying
Speaker 3: I think all the paranormal guys are totally right. Instead,
Speaker 3: I'm just saying that you can't write off all of it.
Speaker 1: One of these days I'll tell the story. I'll probably
Speaker 1: tell it on the member section because it might be
Speaker 1: too graphic for the main audience. But I know someone
Speaker 1: who worked in law enforcement who had a partner who
Speaker 1: had to shoot a gorilla that had gotten out of
Speaker 1: an enclosure and was causing a lot of problems. To
Speaker 1: make a very long story short, this was not a
Speaker 1: very large male gorilla. It was a thirteen year old
Speaker 1: Lowland gorilla that was in captivity. But he shot it
Speaker 1: with two It took two rounds of a three seventy
Speaker 1: five h and h to put it down, and neither
Speaker 1: round had an exit wound. And this was at close range,
Speaker 1: you know, I think sixty feet with a three seventy
Speaker 1: five h and h. Actually it was three rounds. It
Speaker 1: was two rounds to the front and one round to
Speaker 1: the back. He didn't neutralize the animal until the third round,
Speaker 1: and there were no exit wounds from any of those.
Speaker 1: And so, as my friend related that story to me, okay,
Speaker 1: he had said, hey, man, if if you or anybody
Speaker 1: thinks that someone's going to bring down a sasquatch with
Speaker 1: a shot, It's like, it ain't gonna happen. You know,
Speaker 1: that thing is going to run and who knows how
Speaker 1: far it's going to get. You might, you might wound
Speaker 1: it with a leath a wound, but it is not
Speaker 1: going to drop dead. That's not going to happen. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so when you're encountered with like these other real world
Speaker 1: examples and stuff like that, and you realize, like, man,
Speaker 1: I don't have a problem with why hasn't a hunter
Speaker 1: just dropped one and turned it in again? A lot
Speaker 1: of planets have to align to go from hunter c
Speaker 1: sasquatch to sasquatches delivered to some institution that we all
Speaker 1: find out about it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, I think that these these mysteries offer us
Speaker 2: learning opportunities if approached the right way. And I'm I'm
Speaker 2: going to venture a bet that what we learn is
Speaker 2: all very very very down to earth. I think the
Speaker 2: quick and easy way is to ascribe it to something
Speaker 2: that nobody understands, but to you know, paraphrase John Green
Speaker 2: explaining one unknown thing with another, It gets us nowhere.
Speaker 2: So I just choose not to go that route. If
Speaker 2: I sound like I'm full of contempt, maybe on my
Speaker 2: bad days, I am, you know, and I'm human. I'm
Speaker 2: certainly subject to tons of faults. You know, Boba, you
Speaker 2: probably know my faults better than most people. We spent
Speaker 2: so much time together. We'll do that on the Members episode.
Speaker 2: But nonetheless, I think that the more we as a
Speaker 2: Bigfoot community speak about the subject in sober, down to
Speaker 2: earth mundane terms, the more acceptable this mystery is going
Speaker 2: to be too. The very scientists that we need to
Speaker 2: be involved and who will eventually be involved, no matter
Speaker 2: or what. And I think the sooner we get there
Speaker 2: the better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I want to get there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, if they can turn invisible in shape shift,
Speaker 2: we'll find that out pretty quick, unless they're hiding it
Speaker 2: from us, in which case we have to assume wolves
Speaker 2: are as well.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Speaking of plans and goals and places we want to go, we.
Speaker 2: Never achieved anything for this what we plan today, as
Speaker 2: often happens when we jump into something, you know.
Speaker 1: Well, should we go to our member section and talk
Speaker 1: about highlights of twenty twenty five and our New Year's
Speaker 1: resolutions for twenty three.
Speaker 3: We're going to put this discussion, you're not going to
Speaker 3: have edit it and put in some more stuff for it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, pre paraphrase like the you know the old adage
Speaker 5: like man plans God laughs. Yeah, our podcast is like
Speaker 5: prove it plans, Cliff and Bobo laugh.
Speaker 2: You never know what we're going to talk about. And
Speaker 2: you know, we didn't know we're going to talk about this,
Speaker 2: And how how great is that that somebody can tune
Speaker 2: into a podcast that we've been doing for years and
Speaker 2: years and years and they realized that we had good plans.
Speaker 2: I mean, I made a list, I've got a word doc,
Speaker 2: you know, all ready to go, and we didn't use
Speaker 2: any of it. I spent like half hour while I
Speaker 2: was waiting on hold today with those tax people I
Speaker 2: was dealing with, which is why it was late, And
Speaker 2: I made this long list and I'm not even using it,
Speaker 2: you know, And I think that's kind of cool that
Speaker 2: even we, even the hosts, don't know what we're going
Speaker 2: to be doing sometimes. And I think there's something cool
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: Well, if we were around the campfire or you know,
Speaker 1: a picnic table or something, this is the conversation we
Speaker 1: would have had.
Speaker 3: You know, I didn't even have it. And subject, all
Speaker 3: the listeners have to listen to it.
Speaker 1: But no, this is the kind of stuff we talk
Speaker 1: about all the time. So this is very you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's authentic. It's not like we plan to have
Speaker 1: this conversation. So but anyway, I guess we can close
Speaker 1: up shop here and we'll roll over to the pigeon
Speaker 1: side and recap the year and talk about our hopes
Speaker 1: and dreams.
Speaker 2: Well, now that we've settled the debate about paranormal and
Speaker 2: real bigfoot stuff, you know. But but maybe you want
Speaker 2: to take it so and so. But I think it's
Speaker 2: a done deal now. I think we pretty much put
Speaker 2: that one to bed. There's no more arguments left.
Speaker 3: I didn't stay at my position. I was not clear
Speaker 3: of thought. I wasn't planning on talking about that at
Speaker 3: all today.
Speaker 2: No, no, I think you did, because if you look,
Speaker 2: if you read between the lines, what you really said.
Speaker 2: You didn't say you believe in that or this. You
Speaker 2: know you said that, keep your mind open, keep your
Speaker 2: mind open. Nobody really knows what's going on. And I
Speaker 2: can agree with that as well. I think I know
Speaker 2: what's going on because I'm trapped in my own perception,
Speaker 2: just like all these other people who think that they're
Speaker 2: shape shifting or UFO writers. Right, and you're just saying
Speaker 2: let's not let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 3: I offer us to Srea apology. I ever had to
Speaker 3: listen to this today. It's my fault. Sorry about that.
Speaker 3: We'll make up for it the new year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know pro he polishes turns for a
Speaker 2: living man. This will be great. Yeah, this is coming
Speaker 2: out post Christmas, right.
Speaker 1: Br Yes, this will be the last episode of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five.
Speaker 3: All right, well twenty twenty six, we're gonna ring in
Speaker 3: with a great one approve. Okay, hey for sure? All right, folks, Hey,
Speaker 3: well thanks for joining us. Yeah, it's been an interesting year.
Speaker 3: We were supposed to recap it today, but we didn't.
Speaker 3: Just go back and listen to every episode. It'll be
Speaker 3: like the same thing or bekum.
Speaker 2: A number and hear what we're going to talk about
Speaker 2: on the membership episode.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, everyone that belongs to the membership say they
Speaker 3: liked those way better, so check it out. Well. Anyways,
Speaker 3: thanks for your support everyone. We hope you had a
Speaker 3: good year, and we hope you had a great year
Speaker 3: coming up. I hope you had a good holiday season
Speaker 3: and just we appreciate your support and hit like hit share,
Speaker 3: we appreciate it all right, keep it squatchy.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond.
Speaker 2: If you liked what you heard, please rate and review
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