WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:10.960 What started as an intense relationship between two young parents 2 00:00:11.199 --> 00:00:14.439 quickly spiraled into one of the most disturbing murder cases 3 00:00:14.560 --> 00:00:19.000 the UK has seen in recent years. Shay Groves watched 4 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:23.839 true crime obsessively, studied killers like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer, 5 00:00:24.440 --> 00:00:29.039 and turned her bedroom into a shrine of murder. Then 6 00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:33.560 one night, she became the very thing she idolized, brutally 7 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:37.240 stabbing her boyfriend to death as he lay asleep in bed. 8 00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:43.920 This is the story of Shay Groves and Frankie Fitzgerald. 9 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.159 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked 10 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.880 and Grim, a true crime podcast. 11 00:00:51.920 --> 00:01:20.879 The following podcast material intended for a mature audiences. I 12 00:01:20.879 --> 00:01:23.439 don't know why, but the coffee's hitting extra good this morning. 13 00:01:24.359 --> 00:01:26.200 It does every morning for you, doesn't it. 14 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:30.840 But it's extra good, extra good, extra good. 15 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:33.159 I got my green tea steam in a way I 16 00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:34.120 haven't even taken a sip. 17 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.159 Theres some serious steam billowing off that story. For interrupting, it's. 18 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:39.799 Gonna burn my tongue, so yeah. 19 00:01:39.680 --> 00:01:44.480 That is cooking. Holy shit, Wow, it's calling my name though. 20 00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.439 You're gonna melt that foam all right? Off the microphone 21 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:52.480 if you're not careful, maybe maybe this is an interesting case. 22 00:01:52.480 --> 00:01:58.640 We got some more true crime obsessed persons going to 23 00:01:58.719 --> 00:01:59.920 the dark side. 24 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.200 Yeah, you know, usually I ask, well, what are we covering? 25 00:02:02.480 --> 00:02:05.719 And I have your intro like when everyone else is 26 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:07.640 hearing the intro is when I heard what we were 27 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:08.960 covering for the first time too. 28 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:11.400 Yeah, typically I give you like an elevator pitch of 29 00:02:11.439 --> 00:02:13.560 the story. Yeah, like I'll give you like like what 30 00:02:13.639 --> 00:02:15.879 you guys heard on the intro. I'll usually give Nicole 31 00:02:16.039 --> 00:02:19.599 like that, or maybe once or two sentences more like 32 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.599 a day before we actually record. 33 00:02:23.039 --> 00:02:25.240 Well, I think sometimes you also have to get it 34 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:26.199 off your chest lately. 35 00:02:26.520 --> 00:02:29.439 Sometimes I do. Sometimes I do. I'm like, holy shit, 36 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:31.360 this is gonna be quite the case. Guess what we're doing. 37 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:34.240 And then yeah, I need like someone to vent to 38 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:35.919 for a moment. But I try to keep it like 39 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:38.159 to a minimum when I talk to you about still. 40 00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:41.719 Yeah, this is gonna be fascinating though, because I don't know, 41 00:02:41.759 --> 00:02:46.199 we like our world is pretty pretty true crime heavy. 42 00:02:46.199 --> 00:02:49.199 You don't say, and yeah, I haven't really. I can't 43 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.080 say that I've ever felt the need to replicate anything. 44 00:02:53.879 --> 00:02:59.439 I agree. I we'll talk all about that post show 45 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:01.319 near the end, Like at the end of the episode, 46 00:03:01.639 --> 00:03:03.319 we'll go through some of that sort of stuff with 47 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:07.520 the true crime world and the boundaries, I guess is 48 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:10.520 a good way to put it. But I can tell 49 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.680 you that there is one one line that a lot 50 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:18.520 of people do cross that I'm completely, actually okay with, 51 00:03:19.520 --> 00:03:21.719 and that's stepping into the world of signing up over 52 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:22.560 in our patreons. 53 00:03:22.719 --> 00:03:25.599 Gosh, I'm like, is he actually segueing that way? 54 00:03:25.960 --> 00:03:26.599 Yes? I am. 55 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:28.759 Oh, that was good, but also cringe. 56 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.159 I know, but I did it. So over on Patreon, 57 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:33.840 we have a few people who signed up and they're 58 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:36.639 getting that behind the scenes access and the exclusive episode 59 00:03:36.639 --> 00:03:38.800 that comes out at the end of every month. Not 60 00:03:38.879 --> 00:03:40.520 to mention, we're actually going to be doing a live 61 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:43.800 here soon to get some input from our patrons in 62 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:46.479 you know, how we can restructure our Patreon and what 63 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:49.120 sort of things they want to see. So shout out 64 00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:53.479 to Kay's, Holly Herdier and Angel Marie who all signed 65 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:56.080 up this week and they're getting that access to all 66 00:03:56.120 --> 00:03:56.719 those things. 67 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:59.039 Awesome right on. Thank you very much. 68 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.520 I hadn't be doing this without you, guys, so thank 69 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:06.680 you so so much. But let's get into the show, 70 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:07.039 shall we. 71 00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:07.560 Yeah? 72 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:10.840 Okay. So it started like any other Sunday morning in 73 00:04:10.879 --> 00:04:15.840 the quiet English town of Havante, but only July seventeenth, 74 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:20.439 twenty twenty two, something deeply unsettling was unfolding behind closed 75 00:04:20.480 --> 00:04:25.000 doors on Botley Drive. That morning, a woman named Vicky 76 00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:29.319 made a panicked call to police see her friend Shay 77 00:04:29.439 --> 00:04:33.000 had just shown her something on a FaceTime call, something 78 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:37.040 Vicky couldn't quite process until it was too clear to deny. 79 00:04:38.160 --> 00:04:42.800 Shay had confessed to her about killing her boyfriend, and 80 00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:46.279 not just that, she actually showed Vicki his body over 81 00:04:46.319 --> 00:04:51.759 the FaceTime call. That man was her boyfriend, Fanky Frankie Fitzgerald, 82 00:04:51.800 --> 00:04:54.879 a twenty five year old father of two from Portsmouth. 83 00:04:55.439 --> 00:04:58.879 He'd been stabbed repeatedly, and his lifeless body was lying 84 00:04:58.879 --> 00:05:02.079 on the floor of Shay's bedroom, partially wrapped in a duvet, 85 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:05.040 with cleaning supplies nearby and the scent of bleach already 86 00:05:05.079 --> 00:05:05.800 filling the house. 87 00:05:06.120 --> 00:05:09.040 Holy shit, and she's just phone in her friend. Yeh, 88 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:11.199 look what I did last night. Now. 89 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:13.480 When police knocked on the door a short time later, 90 00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:16.319 Shay answered in her dressing gown with cigarette in hand. 91 00:05:17.079 --> 00:05:21.480 Eerily calm over the situation. Frankie's murder would soon dominate 92 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:24.319 headlines across the UK, not just because the brutality of 93 00:05:24.360 --> 00:05:28.040 the crime, but because of the strange and unsettling backdrop 94 00:05:28.120 --> 00:05:31.480 behind it all. Cichet wasn't just another woman accused of 95 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:34.279 a violent act. She was something. She was someone who 96 00:05:34.360 --> 00:05:38.040 was deeply obsessed with serial killers, with true crime as 97 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:43.720 a personal passion. Her bedroom walls were decorated with framed 98 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:47.399 art of infamous murders like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer and 99 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:52.199 Rose West. She collected knives, weapons, boasted about studying how 100 00:05:52.199 --> 00:05:56.839 criminals covered their tracks, and even installed CCTV cameras in 101 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:01.160 her own bedroom, partially for her own interest and partially, 102 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.759 as we'd learned, for something much more manipulative. 103 00:06:06.600 --> 00:06:06.759 Now. 104 00:06:06.759 --> 00:06:08.560 To anyone who'd been in the circle, Shay was a 105 00:06:08.560 --> 00:06:11.480 bit of an outsider, someone with a rough pass, a 106 00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:15.040 dark esthetic, if you will, and a growing fixation on 107 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:18.800 violence and control. But no one could imagine that she 108 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.519 would actually go this far. Over the next several months, 109 00:06:22.519 --> 00:06:25.079 the investigation into Frankie's death peeled back the layers of 110 00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:29.319 the toxic and disturbing relationship between the two. It started 111 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:31.959 as a whole whirlwind romance, and it turned quickly into 112 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.920 something much darker, filled with jealousy, powerful games, sexual domination 113 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:41.879 and manipulation on both sides, and eventually it turned to 114 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:46.839 a fatal turning point. So before we get into who 115 00:06:46.879 --> 00:06:50.079 Shay and Frankie were and how everything went so horribly 116 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:53.160 wrong in this story, it helps to understand where this 117 00:06:53.199 --> 00:06:56.079 all took place. So let's backtrack a little bit and 118 00:06:56.160 --> 00:06:59.480 start before they even met each other. Havant is a 119 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.720 small town in Hampshire, down in the southern coast of England. 120 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:05.279 It's not the kind of place you'd expect to see 121 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:09.279 in headlines about a murder. It's more known for being quiet, 122 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.959 a bit tucked away with green space and family neighborhoods. 123 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.000 Nothing fancy, but not the kind of town where people 124 00:07:15.000 --> 00:07:18.040 lock their doors out of fear either. Now, the specific 125 00:07:18.079 --> 00:07:21.120 area where this story unfolds is lay Park, a large 126 00:07:21.160 --> 00:07:24.879 residential suburb built after World War II. It was originally 127 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:28.120 developed to provide homes for people whose houses were destroyed 128 00:07:28.160 --> 00:07:31.399 during the war. Over time, it's grown into a community 129 00:07:31.439 --> 00:07:34.879 of its own, filled with a mix of council estates, 130 00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:39.079 privately owned homes, schools and parks, a quintessential, nice little town. 131 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:43.040 One of those parks was Stouton County Park, a big 132 00:07:43.199 --> 00:07:46.040 draw for locals, with walking trails, gardens, and a farm 133 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:50.519 that's popular with families. It's a place to go to 134 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.360 clear their heads, not just think about not to think 135 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:55.160 about any sort of violence, let's put it that way. 136 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:58.560 But just a few streets away from those peaceful woods 137 00:07:58.560 --> 00:08:03.360 and lakes, one of these houses would host this unsettling crime. 138 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:09.120 Shay Groves lived on Bontley Drive that house. It was 139 00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:11.000 a house that she shared with her daughter and her 140 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:14.439 longtime friend Lauren. Now, to outsiders, it probably looked like 141 00:08:14.480 --> 00:08:17.319 a typical home for a single mom, messy at times 142 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:21.279 and busy, but you know, nothing out of the ordinary. Inside, though, 143 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:24.399 the house reflected something a little bit different. The walls 144 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:29.920 were covered in dark decor. There were also weapons on display, daggers, axes, 145 00:08:29.959 --> 00:08:33.120 and even a coffin shaped bookshelf. Now, there's nothing wrong 146 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:34.840 with this decor by any means, if you ask me, 147 00:08:34.960 --> 00:08:38.200 but in this story, it was clearly a sign of 148 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:42.559 things to come. However, that's not always the case. For example, 149 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.639 I'm sitting just a couple feet away from a it's 150 00:08:45.639 --> 00:08:48.759 not ceramic but a plaster gold skull on our shelf. 151 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:50.080 So I get it. 152 00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:53.279 Well, but the weapons is maybe not the best if 153 00:08:53.320 --> 00:08:56.039 she has like Kitto's running around and stuff. Right, it 154 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:59.720 depends how if they're not in arms reach and stuff. 155 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:02.879 I guess, yes, definitely, it depends on how you store it. 156 00:09:02.960 --> 00:09:04.840 You can have it displayed, but you know you need 157 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:08.720 to have it safely displayed. Yeah, right, exactly. Now, to 158 00:09:08.759 --> 00:09:11.720 say that she wasn't displaying these or having them out 159 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.240 of reach of her kid and stuff like that, like 160 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:15.360 to say that she wasn't doing it in a safe manner, 161 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:18.159 I have no idea. So I'm not going to disregard 162 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:23.000 her parenting skills in that aspect. I know a few 163 00:09:23.000 --> 00:09:25.960 of my friends who have homes just like this, completely 164 00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:29.399 great people. They're raising kids as well, and it's a 165 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:33.600 completely great safe environment for you know, raising those kids. Yeah. 166 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.200 So in this case though, yeah, it might have been 167 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:38.200 a bit of a precursor. 168 00:09:38.919 --> 00:09:41.639 Okay, so we can't judge, but for this one we can. 169 00:09:42.159 --> 00:09:44.480 Well, we can't judge, and I'm not going to judge 170 00:09:44.480 --> 00:09:48.519 on it, But in hindsight, it's like, Okay, there was 171 00:09:48.559 --> 00:09:51.360 something else going on, maybe I don't know. It's for 172 00:09:51.639 --> 00:09:54.879 most people ninety nine percent of the time, this has 173 00:09:55.080 --> 00:09:59.120 not a concern. It's not a concern. Yeah. Her bedroom, though, 174 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:02.039 was having a bunch of pictures on the walls, had 175 00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.519 many pictures framed with illustrations of famous serial killers, and 176 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:09.320 she kept a Celtic style dagger stowed away under her 177 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:13.480 pillow where she slept, Whether for protection, ritual or esthetic, 178 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:15.840 that dagger would soon be a centerpiece of this story. 179 00:10:16.360 --> 00:10:18.919 I do have to think, say, like the bedroom, though, 180 00:10:18.960 --> 00:10:20.960 if I went to someone's house and they had like 181 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:25.000 posters of serial killers and shit on display, that would 182 00:10:25.120 --> 00:10:27.240 I would probably be like slightly alarmed with that. 183 00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:30.600 Well, I have no problem with people being like, oh 184 00:10:30.639 --> 00:10:32.960 my god, you know, obsession with the occult obsession with 185 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.240 true crime. But I do personally draw the line at 186 00:10:36.279 --> 00:10:39.919 having pictures of serial killers. Yeah, because you're no longer 187 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:43.360 just like obsessing over true crime in the genre, you're 188 00:10:43.399 --> 00:10:46.759 obsessing over the killers themselves. I draw the line at that. 189 00:10:46.960 --> 00:10:48.679 I mean, okay, like maybe if it was just like 190 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:51.799 one and it was just like one simple little thing, 191 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.320 I might be able to just pass by that. But yeah, 192 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.559 there was like numerous and shit along with everything else, 193 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:03.399 it would probably it would flag something for me. 194 00:11:03.679 --> 00:11:08.759 Fair enough, totally agree. Where am I here now? Right? So, 195 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:10.960 if you met Shae Groves on a good day, you 196 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:14.639 might not have guessed that she was, you know, something 197 00:11:15.399 --> 00:11:18.120 out of the ordinary, that there was something different going 198 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.360 on underneath the surface. She was a mom, She had 199 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:24.000 a loud laugh, She dressed in all black, and you know, 200 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.559 leaned hard into the alternative esthetic tattoos, piercings, have a eyeliner, 201 00:11:28.679 --> 00:11:31.039 the works. I mean, I've got tattoos all over me. 202 00:11:31.240 --> 00:11:34.120 I understand. To some she was just a goth girl 203 00:11:34.120 --> 00:11:36.600 who never really outgrew the style like her parents said 204 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:39.120 she would one day. But the truth was a lot 205 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:43.080 more complicated. Shay grew up with a rough hand in life. 206 00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:45.960 She was born in nineteen ninety six, and from a 207 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:49.720 young age things were far from stable. She experienced physical 208 00:11:49.759 --> 00:11:52.759 and sexual abuse as a child, trauma that's struck stuck 209 00:11:52.759 --> 00:11:56.279 with her well into adulthood. By the time she was 210 00:11:56.320 --> 00:11:59.720 a teenager, she was already struggling with serious mental health issues. 211 00:12:00.279 --> 00:12:02.679 In fact, she even started self harming at just thirteen 212 00:12:02.759 --> 00:12:06.480 years old, and around the same time she was diagnosed 213 00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:11.519 with bipolar disorder. Later doctors would also identify complex PTSD, 214 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:14.240 likely connected to everything she went through growing up. 215 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:15.519 Now. 216 00:12:15.559 --> 00:12:18.799 At school, Shye didn't exactly fit in. She was partially 217 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:21.000 deaf and wore a hearing aid, which made her an 218 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:22.240 easy target for bullies. 219 00:12:22.480 --> 00:12:24.320 Oh, which is so wrong it is. 220 00:12:24.720 --> 00:12:27.000 On top of that, she leaned into a dark, horror 221 00:12:27.000 --> 00:12:29.960 inspired style. As I mentioned already, that made her stand 222 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:33.159 out even more. People called her weird, so I'm even 223 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:36.960 nicknamed her Chucky, after the possessed killer doll from Child's Play. 224 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:40.360 You know that horror movie. Yeah? Yeah, and it wasn't 225 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.360 said kindly of course either. Well kids are the worst, 226 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:46.000 though they can. They can be pretty brutal when it 227 00:12:46.000 --> 00:12:47.120 comes to bullying and such. 228 00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.480 Yet, yeah, if you're any sort of different, it doesn't 229 00:12:50.519 --> 00:12:53.919 always go well in like elementary, middle school, high school. 230 00:12:54.159 --> 00:12:56.960 Yeah. Now, she wasn't one to follow rules or play 231 00:12:57.039 --> 00:12:59.799 nice just to fit in, though. If anything, Shaye seemed 232 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.759 to embrace her role as an outsider. She was into 233 00:13:02.759 --> 00:13:06.080 horror movies, serial killer documentaries, heavy metal, and anything that 234 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:10.879 made people uncomfortable. A lot of this was probably armor 235 00:13:10.960 --> 00:13:13.720 in retrospect, a way to protect herself after being hurt 236 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:15.799 so many times. You know if people are calling her 237 00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.360 chucky and making fun of her for looking different, why 238 00:13:19.399 --> 00:13:24.200 not be different and own it right? It makes total sense. Yeah, 239 00:13:24.320 --> 00:13:27.000 now enterteens. In early twenty Sha bounced around a lot. 240 00:13:27.320 --> 00:13:29.159 She even ran away from home at one point and 241 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:32.759 ended up CouchSurfing, staying with friends or boyfriends, mostly of 242 00:13:32.799 --> 00:13:36.639 whom sadly were reportedly abusive too. It was a cycle 243 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:40.799 she just couldn't seem to break. Unstable living, toxic relationships, 244 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:45.000 drug use, and repeat. Then at twenty, she met a 245 00:13:45.000 --> 00:13:47.879 guy named Ashley, and for a little while things looked 246 00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:51.360 like they might turn around. She got pregnant. She had 247 00:13:51.399 --> 00:13:54.679 a daughter in twenty seventeen, and for a short time 248 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:58.000 she really tried to clean her life up. She stopped 249 00:13:58.080 --> 00:14:00.919 using drugs and started getting help for her mental health. 250 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:05.879 She seemed almost happy at this point, but the stability 251 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:09.039 didn't last. Shay and Ashley eventually broke up, and she 252 00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:11.840 found herself a single mom without a steady place to go. 253 00:14:12.720 --> 00:14:16.080 That's when she connected with Lauren, a childhood friend who 254 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:19.159 had also become a single mother. The two decided to 255 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.039 move in together and try to support each other while 256 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:23.840 raising their daughters under one roof. 257 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:27.240 Okay, I kind of like that plan, so do I. 258 00:14:27.279 --> 00:14:29.000 From the outside, it might have looked like things were 259 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:31.080 getting back on track for Shae. She had a home, 260 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:34.240 a best friend, and a daughter she adored. She even 261 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:37.759 posted proud mom updates on social media. But underneath it all, 262 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:42.000 the darkness hadn't gone away. If anything, it was actually growing. 263 00:14:43.759 --> 00:14:47.759 Now everyone has their thing for sure, for whether it's baking, 264 00:14:47.960 --> 00:14:50.960 or for others it's hiking or fashion reality TV. And 265 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.000 for Shae, as I mentioned, true crime was a center 266 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.919 point in her life. And honestly, we kind of already 267 00:14:56.919 --> 00:14:58.960 touched on it, like we live in the true crime 268 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:02.399 world quite a bit with this p so hey hashtag relatable, right, 269 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.879 But this for her was not just in the passing. 270 00:15:06.080 --> 00:15:08.080 She had Netflix on the ground, on the on in 271 00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:14.759 the background, constantly playing true crime documentaries, consistently consuming every 272 00:15:14.879 --> 00:15:17.960 free moment of her life kind of thing. It was different. 273 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:23.639 It became her aesthetic, her identity and yeah obsession as 274 00:15:23.639 --> 00:15:26.200 someone who is you know, constantly diving into the true 275 00:15:26.200 --> 00:15:30.320 crime all the time. I honestly, I can get very 276 00:15:31.840 --> 00:15:33.720 I can get behind it to a degree that it 277 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:38.440 can get very, very heavy and overwhelming and breaks from 278 00:15:38.519 --> 00:15:41.159 it are very welcome. So to say that it's on 279 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:43.519 all the time in the background and it's what you're 280 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:47.639 diving into consistently and constantly, that's a lot. 281 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:50.200 Well, I think I've mentioned this before. I've I've done 282 00:15:50.240 --> 00:15:52.399 an eight hour road trip before where I just listened 283 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:55.639 to true crime in the whole time, and when I arrived, 284 00:15:55.679 --> 00:15:58.559 I was like kind of fucked up, like kind of 285 00:15:58.679 --> 00:16:02.200 suspicious of everyone, and I don't know, my anxiety was 286 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.320 a little bit over the top, Like it didn't do 287 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.279 and it didn't do well for me. 288 00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:09.320 It weighs on a person heavily at times. Yeah, So 289 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:12.600 the fact that she's going through, like through all this 290 00:16:14.039 --> 00:16:17.440 content of true crime and the amount that she's going through. 291 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:19.919 It and assuming it maybe a bit too much. 292 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.399 Yeah, and she's just enjoying it the entire time, Like 293 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:25.679 when I listen to stories when I'm researching, like it 294 00:16:25.759 --> 00:16:28.039 weighs heavy on my heart, my shoulders. There's times where 295 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:29.639 like I need to take a break and absorb this, 296 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:31.159 Like I feel like I'm going to fucking break out 297 00:16:31.200 --> 00:16:33.240 and cry at times, like you know what I mean, 298 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.480 And she's just going and enjoying it, and like, like 299 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.320 you know what, it's different. There's a difference in the 300 00:16:40.320 --> 00:16:41.360 way she consumes it. 301 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:44.559 Yeah, so it's not It doesn't really affect her in 302 00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:47.200 any way, poorly, it. 303 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:51.639 Doesn't seem that way, Okay. Regardless though, things all ramped 304 00:16:51.679 --> 00:16:55.200 up around twenty twenty now during the first COVID lockdown, 305 00:16:55.279 --> 00:16:57.440 like a lot of people, you know, stuck indoors. She 306 00:16:57.679 --> 00:17:00.080 spent a lot of time online and deep diving in 307 00:17:00.080 --> 00:17:03.240 to these documentaries with true crime. Where most people watch 308 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:05.920 out of curiosity or interests, you know, that sort of thing. 309 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:09.440 Shay seemed more fixated on the killers themselves. And that's 310 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.000 where I can no longer relate to her, because she 311 00:17:12.079 --> 00:17:14.880 wasn't just studying the cases. She was admiring the criminals 312 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:19.680 and murderers. Specifically. Her bedroom slowly transformed into what can 313 00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:22.480 only be described as a shrine. And I told you, 314 00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.119 there's these posters a Bundy Dahmer, Rose West, There's Charles Manson, 315 00:17:26.279 --> 00:17:29.240 Eileen Warnos. They're all plastered all over her walls. It's 316 00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:30.559 not just a couple here and there. 317 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:33.880 Holy shit. So she's going to bed and waking up 318 00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:34.759 staring at. 319 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:37.640 These people exactly. And these were like posters she'd buy 320 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:40.640 off Etsy with like blood dripping like art style, kind 321 00:17:40.680 --> 00:17:44.400 of like, oh, graphic type art, and this is this 322 00:17:44.440 --> 00:17:48.839 is her abode, this is her safe place. Now. Yeah, 323 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.880 it didn't stop there. There was also her interest in 324 00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:55.160 how killers got away with murder. She read about crime 325 00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.799 scene cleanup alibis police procedures like she was prepping for 326 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:03.079 an exam. Almost She even installed the cv CCTV cameras 327 00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.039 in her house, reportedly for quote safety and to record 328 00:18:07.079 --> 00:18:10.720 intoment encounters as well, because it was also in her bedroom. 329 00:18:11.319 --> 00:18:12.039 Huh okay. 330 00:18:13.480 --> 00:18:16.240 Now these recordings, though, they would eventually become a tool 331 00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:19.720 for manipulation, but we'll talk about that in a bit now. 332 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:21.920 She claimed all of this was just her style. It 333 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:24.359 was her dark humor, and that you know, the art 334 00:18:24.599 --> 00:18:29.160 wasn't real photos, just creepy looking pieces she liked. And hey, 335 00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.559 she's totally got a point, totally fair enough. But if 336 00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.039 that were true, why did she also spend hours editing 337 00:18:35.160 --> 00:18:40.240 videos of her sex life to reflect this dark style? 338 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:44.160 Oh shit, so it's okay. I was wondering if this 339 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:45.960 was going to go that way, but and it does. 340 00:18:46.359 --> 00:18:50.680 It does. So she'd keep videos of her boyfriends and 341 00:18:51.519 --> 00:18:55.440 you know, from these security cameras in her bedrooms, and 342 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.279 she'd keep them as quote evidence on these boyfriends. She 343 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.920 would edit them certain ways to make them look like 344 00:19:04.039 --> 00:19:07.559 they were forcing themselves on her and such. Really, yes, 345 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.400 and she would threaten to share these videos if they 346 00:19:10.440 --> 00:19:11.759 didn't do what she wanted. 347 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.319 Holy shit, So were they even aware they were being filmed? 348 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:19.279 I wonder most likely? Okay, and again we'll get into 349 00:19:19.319 --> 00:19:21.400 a little bit more detailed about that too. How about 350 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:25.119 these videos and stuff? Now, this wasn't just a harmless obsession. 351 00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:29.440 It was a mindset one that glorified control, pain, and punishment. 352 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:32.279 And the more she built her world around this aesthetic, 353 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.920 the harder it became to tell where the performance ended 354 00:19:35.559 --> 00:19:40.039 and where the real Shae began. Blurring that line. So 355 00:19:40.039 --> 00:19:42.160 to me, it seems like Shaye was watching true crime 356 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:46.079 to understand wasn't sorry, watching true crime to understand victims 357 00:19:46.359 --> 00:19:50.240 or injustice. She was taking notes more on like how 358 00:19:50.279 --> 00:19:53.599 to become the kind of person that she was reading about. 359 00:19:53.720 --> 00:19:54.920 That's what it seems like to me. 360 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:56.519 Now. 361 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.119 Shaye and a friend, Lauren White, they had known each 362 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:01.440 other since they were ki. Lauren is the one who's 363 00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:05.119 moved in and raising their kids together under the same roof. 364 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:09.559 They weren't casual friends. They had history. They'd grown up together, 365 00:20:09.599 --> 00:20:12.240 They'd bonded over being a bit different even, and stayed 366 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:15.480 connected into adulthood. And then when both women became you know, 367 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:18.440 single moms around the same time, it almost felt like fate. 368 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.720 When they moved in together and you know, helping each 369 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.640 other out. They raised their daughters under this one roof, 370 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:28.480 and from the outside it was a good setup, right. 371 00:20:28.599 --> 00:20:32.240 Their daughters were close, They're co parenting, supporting each other 372 00:20:32.319 --> 00:20:34.640 there for when they need it. They were more like 373 00:20:34.759 --> 00:20:39.680 sisters their daughters more than playmates. Okay, Now, she had 374 00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:43.000 always been the dominant one in this friend relationship. Lauren, 375 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:47.720 according to multiple people who knew them, was more reserved, quiet, accommodating, 376 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.799 and often would let Shade kind of dominate the dynamic 377 00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:54.440 or make decisions between the two of them. Now, over time, though, 378 00:20:54.440 --> 00:20:56.319 that dynamic starts to look a little bit less like 379 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.519 friendship and a lot more like control. Would do things 380 00:21:00.519 --> 00:21:02.680 for Shay that most people wouldn't ask of a roommate, 381 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:06.079 let alone expect. Some were small things, should you know, 382 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:08.640 wash her clothes, roll her cigarettes for her, But it 383 00:21:08.680 --> 00:21:11.720 went a little further. Lauren would even put her socks 384 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:12.279 on for her. 385 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.599 Oh wow, that's gone too far. Yeah yeah. 386 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:18.200 And it wasn't even just helping out. It became routine. 387 00:21:18.839 --> 00:21:21.480 So these things were no longer like hey, could you 388 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:23.759 do my laundry for me today? I'm busy. It was like, hey, 389 00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:27.119 why didn't you do my laundry for me? Like it's 390 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:28.720 sitting there waiting for you go do it. 391 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.839 It's not help like it's not healthy anymore. 392 00:21:31.039 --> 00:21:34.039 No, it's becoming you do my laundry. Yeah, you know 393 00:21:34.079 --> 00:21:36.440 what I mean. Lauren was like a more of a 394 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.599 living assistant, more than an equal partner in this household 395 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:43.880 kind of thing. Now, there were also moments of psychological aggression. 396 00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.759 At least one instant was later brought up in court 397 00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:49.720 when Shay attacked Lauren with a pair of nail clippers, 398 00:21:49.880 --> 00:21:52.759 cutting her badly enough to draw some blood. Now, Shaye 399 00:21:52.759 --> 00:21:55.920 apparently did stop when she realized she'd gone too far. 400 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.119 But again, one of those things is that it's like, okay, 401 00:22:01.640 --> 00:22:05.279