WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.560 --> 00:00:04.200 Pat Trip Cast listeners. A couple of weeks ago, we 2 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:09.119 brought you my conversation with Comptroller candidate Don Huffin's a Republican. Now, 3 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:11.679 for a special episode, I bring you my conversation with 4 00:00:11.720 --> 00:00:14.599 the Democratic candidate Sarah Eckhard. I hope you enjoy it. 5 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:17.559 This episode of the trip Cast is sponsored by Texas 6 00:00:17.600 --> 00:00:27.000 Matters and members of the Texas Tribune. Senator, good morning, 7 00:00:27.000 --> 00:00:27.679 thanks for being here. 8 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:30.000 Thank you for having me, Matthew. Thank you to Texas 9 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:31.280 Tribune family for having me. 10 00:00:31.559 --> 00:00:34.039 Absolutely we are very happy to have you here. I'm 11 00:00:34.039 --> 00:00:36.520 going to start the conversation with some hot off the 12 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:39.119 presses polling news. I don't know if you saw this. 13 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:43.039 This morning, the University of Texas Politics Project put out 14 00:00:43.079 --> 00:00:50.159 its regular poll and raising some eyebrows at the very 15 00:00:50.200 --> 00:00:56.399 top of the ticket, Senator Representative Taller Rico leading John 16 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.240 Cornyan forty percentage points to thirty three percentage points in 17 00:01:00.280 --> 00:01:04.480 a hypothetical matchup in a hypothetical matchup against Ken Paxton 18 00:01:04.840 --> 00:01:08.040 tell Rico leading forty two percent to thirty four percent. 19 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:12.359 That comes off of some polling that just was released yesterday, 20 00:01:12.840 --> 00:01:15.400 also suggesting a tall Rica lead at the top forty 21 00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.159 four to forty one over Cornan forty six to forty 22 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:22.560 one over Paxton. Neither of those polls poled the controllers race, 23 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:27.079 to my great disappointment heading into this conversation. But I'm curious, 24 00:01:27.200 --> 00:01:31.079 I mean, it is not common in Texas to be 25 00:01:31.280 --> 00:01:35.079 seeing polls like that for Democrats. I'm curious how you 26 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:38.000 see this and what you think that this means, you know, 27 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.879 politically for the state right now, and then particularly for 28 00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:41.719 your race as well. 29 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.719 Well, clearly this is a wave election. I've been traveling 30 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:50.920 all over the state and talking to people Republicans and Democrats. 31 00:01:51.480 --> 00:01:54.400 Folks are really fed up with thirty years of one 32 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:58.200 party rule, and people really do get it that one 33 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:00.480 party rule is not good for us, whether it's Republican 34 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:04.319 or Democrat, that it has a tendency to be wasteful, 35 00:02:04.439 --> 00:02:09.879 and also it tends toward abuse, and folks retired of 36 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:12.520 being abused. So we're going to see a wave of 37 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:15.439 election this year. People feel that they have a choice 38 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:18.000 for the first time in literally decades, and they are 39 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:20.800 going to make that choice. And so I'm proud to 40 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.280 be on a ticket with James and other great Democrats 41 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:28.680 in order for us to restore balance and get out 42 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:29.719 of this abusive cycle. 43 00:02:30.159 --> 00:02:35.039 How much do y'all see this as a slate of candidates, 44 00:02:35.039 --> 00:02:37.360 how much of that, how much do you envision? And 45 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.280 how much of y'all y'all already sort of working together 46 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.240 as you look forward these next few months. 47 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:45.759 We have a lot of coordination. I mean, I've known 48 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:50.400 James and Gina and Vicki and John and of course 49 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:54.599 Nathan for years, and we've worked together for years for 50 00:02:54.719 --> 00:02:59.800 better policy for everyday Texans. So this is a naturally 51 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.960 coordinated group of people. And the Democratic Party is producing 52 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:09.840 candidates that are truly capable of providing good government to 53 00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:13.879 regular Texans. It is unfortunate that the Republican Party is 54 00:03:13.879 --> 00:03:16.840 producing some of the worst candidates that we've seen in years. 55 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.719 And what I tell my Republican friends who are disappointed 56 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:24.800 in their choices over on the Republican side is you 57 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:28.000 won't get better choices on the Republican side until you 58 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:30.639 vote for a Democrat. You can always go back to 59 00:03:30.719 --> 00:03:33.960 voting Republican when your party starts producing good candidates again. 60 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:41.439 So you mentioned James, Gina, Vicky, you all of those folks, 61 00:03:41.800 --> 00:03:46.319 are you know Travis County politicians what's going on there? 62 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:49.800 Why are we seeing so many Travis County candidates for 63 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:50.960 state white office this year? 64 00:03:51.039 --> 00:03:53.280 And you know, there must be something in the water, 65 00:03:55.280 --> 00:04:00.159 what we have left of it. I think that we 66 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:08.560 have seen through redistricting, this condensing of talent into our 67 00:04:08.680 --> 00:04:14.080 urbanized areas, and redistricting has has forced all of the 68 00:04:14.159 --> 00:04:17.600 Democratic talent into a smaller and smaller pool. And so 69 00:04:17.920 --> 00:04:21.600 we're seeing we're seeing some of us fish jump in 70 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:25.199 the pond, frankly, and I think that that is exactly 71 00:04:25.240 --> 00:04:28.040 what's needed. I think that we need to have good 72 00:04:28.079 --> 00:04:31.160 candidates running in every single election all across the state 73 00:04:31.160 --> 00:04:33.399 of Texas, including statewide races. 74 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.360 Okay, so I talked about the reasons for optimism for Democrats. 75 00:04:37.360 --> 00:04:40.680 This time, let's talk about some of the reasons for skepticism. 76 00:04:40.879 --> 00:04:43.079 I mean, the first one is just you talk about 77 00:04:43.079 --> 00:04:47.360 Texans being tired of you know, one party rule. That 78 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:50.480 being said, they have continued to choose one party rule 79 00:04:50.560 --> 00:04:54.959 for basically every election this this century. Why do you 80 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:58.360 think it is that that is the case. Why do 81 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:00.519 you think it? You know, Democrats have been able to 82 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:02.000 break through so far. 83 00:05:02.519 --> 00:05:04.720 I think part of it is the patronage system that 84 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:07.959 grows up inside of a one party system. When you 85 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:11.680 have one party rule, there's significant patronage in corporate tax 86 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.519 breaks and no bid contracts and whatnot. And so you 87 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:18.279 start to see, particularly in Texas where there is tragically 88 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:22.879 no campaign finance limit, you see these huge war chests 89 00:05:23.639 --> 00:05:28.160 which scare off competition and also drown out any competition. 90 00:05:28.360 --> 00:05:31.399 But I think in a wave election like this, grassroots 91 00:05:31.439 --> 00:05:36.319 campaigns actually are more effective than huge billboards on every 92 00:05:36.399 --> 00:05:41.120 highway and major major media advertising that nobody watches anymore, 93 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:42.759 and nobody trusts when they do see it. 94 00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.759 Yeah, so let's let's talk about that. You know, another 95 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.240 thing that was in this poll. They didn't pull your 96 00:05:48.319 --> 00:05:53.600 race ut. They did pull favorability, right, don Haffein's your 97 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:58.800 opponent twenty two percent favorable, nineteen percent unfavorable, fifty eight 98 00:05:58.879 --> 00:06:04.240 percent don't know enough to have an opinion you particularly, 99 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:09.480 sixteen percent favorable, eleven percent unfavorable, seventy three percent don't know. 100 00:06:11.079 --> 00:06:14.480 You know. You may point out right that that's a 101 00:06:14.560 --> 00:06:18.480 higher net positive for you than your opponent, but to me, 102 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:21.600 the big takeaway, the biggest two numbers on those lists 103 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:25.879 are don't know. The comptroller obviously there's you know, let's 104 00:06:25.920 --> 00:06:27.439 be honest, there's a lot of people who don't know 105 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.240 even that we have a comptrolleror what that job does. 106 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:33.360 There's a lot of work to be done in terms 107 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:37.160 of defining who you are to a state wide audience, 108 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:41.560 to defining who your opponent is state wide audience. And 109 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:43.839 it's going to be hard to get attention in this 110 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:45.680 race when there's so much at the top of the 111 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.399 ballot and other things going on. Reflect for me a 112 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:51.079 little bit on that. What's the strategy. How can you 113 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:55.279 get the word out? You know, particularly when, as you mentioned, 114 00:06:55.279 --> 00:06:57.279 you're likely to be going up against someone who's going 115 00:06:57.279 --> 00:06:58.600 to spend a lot of money in this race. 116 00:06:59.399 --> 00:07:04.040 You know, the challenge is letting people know what the hell, 117 00:07:04.240 --> 00:07:07.319 what the heck is a comptroller and who are these 118 00:07:07.360 --> 00:07:10.959 two people vying for it. That's absolutely the challenge getting 119 00:07:11.000 --> 00:07:13.800 across the entire state, where most people think the comptroller 120 00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.680 just writes checks, when in fact, the comptroller is the 121 00:07:17.160 --> 00:07:21.199 check on the abuse of power. And you've got two 122 00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:25.199 candidates in this race, one who is a robber baron 123 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:29.639 himself and another who has actually been the check and 124 00:07:29.680 --> 00:07:37.600 balance on budgets and on misuse misappropriation of government funds. 125 00:07:37.879 --> 00:07:40.959 So you're absolutely right. The challenge is letting people know 126 00:07:41.079 --> 00:07:44.920 how important this office is and also that you have 127 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:48.680 a real choice in who controls this office. Somebody who 128 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:51.360 is going to throw wide the door to robber barons, 129 00:07:51.680 --> 00:07:53.800 or someone who's going to stand at the door and 130 00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:56.519 follow the money and follow the law for the people 131 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:57.439 of the state of Texas. 132 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:06.000 Yeah, I mean the you know, Senator Huffines has he 133 00:08:06.040 --> 00:08:08.560 poured a lot of money into the primary, right And 134 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:09.959 one of the things we learned, at least on the 135 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:13.040 Republican side of the primary, is a lot of times 136 00:08:13.079 --> 00:08:16.040 we see, you know, the right wing of the party 137 00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:18.720 or the left you know, or the more centrist wing 138 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:24.279 of the party can often you know, win or have 139 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.199 more success in a particular election. This year, in the 140 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:31.680 Republican primary in particular, what you saw was that the 141 00:08:31.759 --> 00:08:36.240 campaigns that had the resources turned out pretty well. John 142 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:38.519 Cornan at the top of the ticket, spent you know, 143 00:08:38.600 --> 00:08:41.639 his supporter, spent a ton of money supporting him, surprised 144 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:43.399 a lot of people by being the top vote kitterer 145 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:47.639 in that race. Mays Middleton for the the AG's race, 146 00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:51.519 and then Senator Huffines again, fifteen million dollars of his 147 00:08:51.600 --> 00:08:55.320 own funds going into that campaign seemed to really make 148 00:08:55.360 --> 00:09:00.240 a difference. He shocked a lot of people buy winning 149 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:05.120 that race outright, not getting to a runoff. I mean, 150 00:09:07.240 --> 00:09:09.600 is there are you going to be able to compete 151 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:11.639 with that? What is your how do you kind of 152 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:15.480 go about getting the resources necessary to pull this off? 153 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:18.960 Well, I'll raise the money necessary and then we're going 154 00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:22.799 to do a lot of outreach. This is definitely a 155 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.639 grassroots campaign. And every campaign I've ever run has been 156 00:09:26.679 --> 00:09:30.679 a grassroots campaign with a lot of outreach voter to 157 00:09:30.759 --> 00:09:33.600 voter saying hey, I heard about this race and you 158 00:09:33.639 --> 00:09:37.399 should pay attention to it. And I've won every race 159 00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.360 that way. Mister Haffines has only ever purchased political power 160 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.960 or tried to. He spent considerably on one term in 161 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:48.080 the Texas Senate, and then he lost that race he 162 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:52.440 was beat. And then he spent considerably on trying to 163 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:55.879 buy the governor's mansion and he was beat. And then 164 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:59.879 of course he's recently purchased the Epstein ranch in New Mexico. 165 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.840 So I think that this is indicative and he's spending 166 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:07.320 a tremendous amount of his own money in this race, 167 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:13.840 But I think people are tired of seeing very wealthy 168 00:10:14.159 --> 00:10:19.879 men purchase power and then continue to be rich and 169 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.519 powerful on the dime of the public. 170 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:25.559 There, I think is an ongoing debate within the Texas 171 00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:29.039 Democratic Party about how in a state that has traditionally 172 00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:35.240 voted Republican during our you know, uh, during this modern era. 173 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.000 You know, do you, as a Democrat try to appeal 174 00:10:40.039 --> 00:10:42.480 to the middle. Do you try to appeal to those undecided, 175 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.480 more moderate voters, or do you try to ignite the 176 00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:47.919 base and get you know, young people and get a 177 00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.799 movement excited and on that I'm curious, like, what do 178 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:55.279 you think where do you fall on that equation? How 179 00:10:55.279 --> 00:10:57.720 do you think you know you should be running these races, 180 00:10:57.799 --> 00:11:00.240 this race and your your colleagues up and down the 181 00:11:00.240 --> 00:11:01.600 ticket should be running these races. 182 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.279 I think that I would like to be able to 183 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:11.039 run strictly on capabilities. I'm a lawyer. I have a 184 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:14.600 master's in public affairs, including public finance and tax policy. 185 00:11:14.679 --> 00:11:17.919 I've been a prosecutor, a county commissioner, a county judge, 186 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.159 which is the chief executive of the county. It's not 187 00:11:20.279 --> 00:11:23.440 actually a judge, and a black robe, and I've been 188 00:11:23.440 --> 00:11:26.320 a state senator for the last almost six years staring 189 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:30.480 into the heart of darkness. So I am prepared to 190 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:37.440 do the revenue estimate and review the budget for its balance. 191 00:11:38.399 --> 00:11:41.240 I am prepared to do the analysis of what our 192 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:44.759 investments are in Texas, whether they're working for us, and 193 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:47.000 whether they're not, and if they're not working for us, 194 00:11:47.200 --> 00:11:50.039 who they're working for. I would love to run on 195 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.879 just that, But to your point, capturing people's attention really 196 00:11:54.919 --> 00:11:59.120 requires going out there and telling the larger narrative about 197 00:11:59.120 --> 00:12:03.559 what's happening in politics today, what's wrong with state and 198 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.360 federal politics, which is that we have thrown open the 199 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:10.919 gates to robber barons who stay rich and powerful on 200 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:15.519 your dime. And people don't like that, and they do 201 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:18.600 want a watchdog. My opponent a couple of weeks ago, 202 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:22.000 I was very flattered that he is matching my language 203 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.399 saying that he wants to be a watchdog. But let's 204 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:27.799 talk about what a watchdog actually is. A watch dog 205 00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:34.120 guards the house from robbers. Mister Huffines is a robber. 206 00:12:34.200 --> 00:12:37.080 He will throw the door open for what he calls 207 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:42.399 monetized solutions to other robber barons. Like himself, and when 208 00:12:42.399 --> 00:12:45.879 he talks about cleaning out the garage, he means letting 209 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.559 our car get taken and then burning the garage down 210 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:53.039 to hide the evidence of the theft. 211 00:12:54.519 --> 00:13:01.679 Okay, so it's November of this year, and I keep 212 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:04.000 wanting to say twenty twenty five. You know, I know 213 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:10.000 that November twenty twenty six you have been elected controller. 214 00:13:10.039 --> 00:13:13.679 It's a major, massive moment in Texas politics because a 215 00:13:13.720 --> 00:13:18.399 Democrat has been elected statewide this century. What has happened 216 00:13:18.440 --> 00:13:22.080 between then and now to have allowed that to happen 217 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.159 is what is your path? 218 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.360 First? My path is to get the word out that 219 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:32.000 people actually have a choice. They do not have to 220 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:37.919 just sit back and allow this this theft. Basically, they 221 00:13:38.000 --> 00:13:40.639 have choices in this election, and they have choices that 222 00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:47.000 can win. Also, it's important to speak with every voter, 223 00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:51.639 Republicans and Democrats, because I can tell you from experience 224 00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:56.960 inside the Texas Senate that my Republican colleagues are also 225 00:13:57.200 --> 00:14:00.440 a lot of them very dissatisfied with one party rule. 226 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:02.519 They feel the boot on their neck more keenly than 227 00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:06.000 I do, because I can still speak my mind. But 228 00:14:06.279 --> 00:14:11.279 my Republican colleagues know that if they question the current leadership, 229 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:17.720 the retribution will be swift. That's deeply concerning to them. 230 00:14:17.759 --> 00:14:21.320 And frankly, if I'm Greg Abbott right now, if I'm 231 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:23.519 standing on the deck of the ship and I look 232 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:28.799 to my right and my shipmates are Dan Patrick, Ken Paxton, 233 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:34.240 May's Middleton and Don Huffines, I'm sleeping with one eye open, 234 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:35.799 or I might not survive the night. 235 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:41.720 Okay, let's talk a little bit about the Controller's office. 236 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:47.120 Why did you choose this office to run for this office? 237 00:14:47.320 --> 00:14:53.279 You know, this is the most exciting, boring office you'll 238 00:14:53.320 --> 00:15:02.679 ever hear about. This is the boiler room of Texas policy. 239 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.159 It really is the engine. It's checking on the engines 240 00:15:06.159 --> 00:15:09.720 of government. I'm a policy wonk. I love the way 241 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:14.000 government works, and I also really hate the way government 242 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:19.559 doesn't work. Getting inside the machinery of government to see 243 00:15:19.600 --> 00:15:24.679 where we are investing with success and where we are 244 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:31.039 not investing is exciting to me. So a chance to 245 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:36.120 have all of the numbers and three thousand dedicated public 246 00:15:36.200 --> 00:15:40.879 servants who will do the analysis, do the comparisons, and 247 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:45.720 set our investments in the context of federal, state, and 248 00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:51.679 local investment is extremely exciting to me, and gives an 249 00:15:51.720 --> 00:15:57.679 opportunity to more deeply inform Texans but also their representatives 250 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:01.320 when it comes time for the legislature to convene. 251 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:04.240 Okay, let's talk about some of the functions of the job. 252 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:06.159 You know, you mentioned what is a comfortable to do. 253 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:09.000 I'm imagine most people in this room know. But let's 254 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:10.759 let's talk about how it works and how you view 255 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:13.120 some of that work. Of course, one of the newest 256 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:16.559 tasks for the office is the administration of the school 257 00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.919 voucher system. You were in the Senate when this came up. 258 00:16:20.039 --> 00:16:23.240 You voted against the school voucher system or the you know, 259 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:26.279 the proposal to implement vouchers in Texas. First of all, 260 00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:28.840 I guess before we get into how you would manage it, 261 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:30.720 just tell me about that vote. 262 00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.039 Sure, So you know, I have worked for a legislative body, 263 00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:38.200 and I have been in a legislative body as well 264 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.600 as being in an executive function. So I have I've 265 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.919 been staff, I've been a legislative and I've been executive. 266 00:16:46.519 --> 00:16:52.480 It is in my capacity, in my legislative capacity, I 267 00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:58.399 fought tooth and nail against the voucher program. I felt 268 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:03.519 then and I feel now that that billion dollar investment 269 00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:09.359 will not produce a better result for far and away 270 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:13.720 the vast majority of Texas school children. In fact, I 271 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:18.440 believe that much like many corporate tax breaks, this is 272 00:17:18.480 --> 00:17:23.119 a subsidy that is subsidized, that will subsidize activity that's 273 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.880 already occurring and not improve the educational circumstances for most 274 00:17:28.039 --> 00:17:32.480 Texas children. So, yes, I voted against it. As your comptroller, 275 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:36.920 I will be in the executive branch. The executive branch's 276 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:42.359 role is to implement policy. I will implement that policy, 277 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:44.720 and I will do it. I will follow the law, 278 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.200 and I will follow the money. And in following the 279 00:17:47.279 --> 00:17:50.000 law and following the money, I will report out honestly 280 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:52.880 who is benefiting most, least and not at all from 281 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:58.400 that program, and deeply inform the legislature for the next session. 282 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.440 Yeah, you talk on your campaign website about auditing the system. 283 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:04.920 Is that sort of what you're talking about? What does 284 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:06.559 that look like? And auditing of the. 285 00:18:06.599 --> 00:18:11.079 Voucher Auditing the voucher system requires that every August the 286 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.240 Comptroller reports out the demography if who receives those vouchers. 287 00:18:15.960 --> 00:18:21.960 It also requires a detailed line item of how the 288 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:26.079 voucher was the voucher dollars were expended, whether it was 289 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:32.240 on tutoring, transportation, school uniforms, and whatnot. This is important 290 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:35.319 information for the Texas legislature to have to know how 291 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:38.920 that billion dollars or frankly four billion, which is what 292 00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:42.440 it's expected to be by the at least by the 293 00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:46.359 twenty thirty one session, where that money is going, and 294 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:49.720 what you're getting for it. So that's what I mean 295 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:54.519 by auditing. Auditing is an important function of government, both 296 00:18:54.519 --> 00:18:58.720 financial auditing and performance auditing, and that is a function 297 00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.880 of the Comptrollers. 298 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:04.319 So this roll out of this system has been managed 299 00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:07.799 by Acting Controller Kelly Hancock, one of your former colleagues 300 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:11.480 in the Senate. How do you feel about how this 301 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:14.160 has been administered? You know, again setting aside the vote, 302 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:16.039 like you talked about, how do you feel like this 303 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:18.880 has been administered by the office so far. 304 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:22.839 I served with Kelly Hancock in the Senate and I 305 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.799 had great admiration for him in the Texas Senate. He 306 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:30.599 actually was one who questioned the one party rule in 307 00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:34.279 the Texas Senate and the retribution was swift and frankly, 308 00:19:34.759 --> 00:19:39.440 Governor Abbott's protection could not save him, and I was 309 00:19:39.519 --> 00:19:46.039 deeply disappointed that my former colleague, well, I'll just say 310 00:19:46.039 --> 00:19:51.680 it broke the law by refusing to certify Muslim schools. 311 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:58.000 That was frankly illegal, and the courts declared it so, 312 00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:02.599 and so he was forced ultimately to certify Muslim schools. 313 00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:09.400 That was deeply concerning. I have seen some interesting trends 314 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:14.960 in the early numbers. So the families who applied skewed white, 315 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:23.000 skewed toward children already in private school, and also skewed 316 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:29.000 higher income. But interestingly, in the first tier distribution, roughly 317 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.559 half were at two hundred percent of federal poverty line 318 00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:36.160 and below, and roughly half did not have their children 319 00:20:36.240 --> 00:20:39.960 previously in private school. So I'm intrigued by that. I 320 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:46.640 have some theories on why why the distribution fell out 321 00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.160 that way, but we won't know yet until we have 322 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:52.359 the numbers. And that's why it's so important for government 323 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:56.279 to be not only effective, efficient and fair, but transparent 324 00:20:56.559 --> 00:20:59.480 so that we all can double check it and make 325 00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:01.599 sure it is effective, efficient and fair. 326 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:06.440 You mentioned, you know, the possible cost of this going 327 00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.400 up to maybe four billion at some point. The number 328 00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:12.720 of people who applied for this program far outpaced the 329 00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.599 amount who will likely be able to participate due to 330 00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:20.559 the amount of funding that was available. It is written 331 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:25.480 into the law that the Controller shall request in the 332 00:21:25.559 --> 00:21:32.319 upcoming legislative session the amount to fully fund the program. That, 333 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.599 of course, will be the decision of the legislature as 334 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:36.880 to whether to allocate that money. How do you view 335 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:39.839 how would you view your role? What would you be 336 00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:44.519 doing during that legislative session in that conversation of do 337 00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:46.880 we put more money into this? Where does this program 338 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:47.400 go from here? 339 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.359 You know, I quibble with the wording request. It is 340 00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.240 the responsibility of the Comptroller's office under the law as 341 00:21:56.240 --> 00:22:00.599 it was written, to calculate how much which would be 342 00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:05.240 necessary to fund all the children on the wait list 343 00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:10.200 who are eligible for the program. That's different from requesting 344 00:22:10.240 --> 00:22:14.319 the funding, and I think that is an important function 345 00:22:14.400 --> 00:22:20.359 of the comptroller to calculate how quickly this program could 346 00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:27.960 escalate in the amount of money it is. It's soaking 347 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:32.640 up in a very low tax state. I think that 348 00:22:32.759 --> 00:22:39.119 the Tax Institute, which is a nonpartisan think tank federal 349 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.039 think tank. It calculates the state and local tax burden 350 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:45.759 and compares it against all states, and Texas has the 351 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:50.720 sixth lowest tax burden in the United States, that's combined 352 00:22:50.759 --> 00:22:54.720 state and local tax burden. So when you're looking at 353 00:22:54.720 --> 00:22:59.200 a program that is quadrupling in as many years in 354 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:04.799 a very low tax environment, it is taking up space fungible. 355 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:11.160 You know, money being fungible for other needs. Is subsidizing 356 00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:18.519 private schools a higher priority than water, infrastructure or some 357 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:23.119 of our other needs like healthcare. That is a question 358 00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:25.799 for the legislature to answer, but it is a job 359 00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:31.319 of the comptroller to calculate how much more money this 360 00:23:31.400 --> 00:23:36.960 particular program is occupying of what is a limited tax revenue. 361 00:23:38.440 --> 00:23:41.680 You mentioned you know your intention to follow the law. 362 00:23:43.440 --> 00:23:49.119 Do you see any room within the law to change 363 00:23:49.880 --> 00:23:54.000 aspects of this program or how it's administrated, any opportunities, 364 00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.519 any things you would like to do, You know, in 365 00:23:57.559 --> 00:24:00.799 this position of power with regard to. 366 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:03.839 The program, the rule setting function of any agency is 367 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.880 extremely important and it's often overlooked. The legislature when they 368 00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:14.680 set policy, can't know every nuance of the implementation of 369 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.519 that policy, and agencies fill those gaps with rule making. 370 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:23.759 So there may be opportunities to make this particular program 371 00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:28.319 more effective, efficient, fair, and transparent that are in line 372 00:24:28.920 --> 00:24:33.720 with the legislative intent. And I would certainly want to 373 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:36.960 explore those to make it the most effective, efficient, fair 374 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:39.559 and transparent program within the law. 375 00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:45.039 Another important aspect of the controller's job, of course, is 376 00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:52.400 supplying the biennial revenue estimate that essentially sets the amount 377 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.039 of money that the legislature can spend every two years 378 00:24:56.039 --> 00:25:00.480 and put in the budget. You have witnessed this process 379 00:25:01.000 --> 00:25:04.079 several times as a state senator. How do you feel 380 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.599 like that process goes right now? Is this system working? 381 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:11.920 Has the previous controller done a good job of estimating 382 00:25:12.319 --> 00:25:16.319 and you know, declaring how much the legislature has to spend. 383 00:25:16.599 --> 00:25:19.680 I think Glenn Hager did an excellent job of estimating 384 00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:25.839 the revenue. Of course, toward the end of his last term, 385 00:25:26.200 --> 00:25:32.839 he had the pleasure of his historic budget surpluses, and 386 00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:36.319 I think that his revenue estimate was was very accurate. 387 00:25:38.480 --> 00:25:45.359 I also am mindful that part of the revenue estimate is, 388 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:48.599 and we may get to this is the property valuation study. 389 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:54.240 The property valuation study is important to that revenue estimate 390 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:59.599 because of the amount of property tax that is transferred 391 00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:04.000 to this state for redistribution for public education purposes. In 392 00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:08.000 public education is the largest of our investments at the state. 393 00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:14.880 So this is a this is a this is an 394 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:21.640 uncomfortable circumstance where the Comptroller's property valuation study requires, in 395 00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:26.359 some cases for central appraisal districts or appraisal districts to 396 00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:33.359 appraise your property higher to meet market and meet the 397 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:35.000 revenue requirements of the state. 398 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:43.880 So do you see that work going on largely pretty 399 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.240 similarly to the way it has gone on, you know 400 00:26:46.440 --> 00:26:47.000 in the past. 401 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:49.759