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<v Speaker 1>Oh better there m hm. Trigger warn This podcast may

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<v Speaker 1>include explicit content that will take you out of your

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<v Speaker 1>comfort zone and make you question reality.

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<v Speaker 2>Listener's discretion is advised.

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<v Speaker 1>Hello, and welcome back to the show. This is part

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<v Speaker 1>one of the brand new mini series into the Culti Verse,

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<v Speaker 1>and we're gonna be talking about some of the most

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<v Speaker 1>obscure cults of all time. I have my ride or

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<v Speaker 1>die with me, Colby, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm hoping this is a ride.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a die but you never know. With the

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<v Speaker 1>cosmic Peach, I like to talk about the die bart

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<v Speaker 1>of law.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, with the Colts, I'm sure there'll be no shortage of.

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<v Speaker 1>Carnage, lots of death, lots of mayhem, and so we're

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<v Speaker 1>kicking it old school. And I have prepared a list

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<v Speaker 1>of cults to present to you. You have prepared some

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<v Speaker 1>cults to present to me, but we don't know anything

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<v Speaker 1>about the other one's cults, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't even remember which ones you picked as far

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<v Speaker 2>as this episode goes good, I have not heard of

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<v Speaker 2>the Solar Sunshine Flair cult.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not what it's called. What is it, Well, it's

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<v Speaker 1>called the the I'll get into it in a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>But that I mean, so, I tried to like find

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<v Speaker 1>interesting ones that I don't feel like a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people talk about, but that are they should be because

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<v Speaker 1>they got like super weirdness and like high death counts

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<v Speaker 1>and like whyatt aren't they like somebody needs to make

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<v Speaker 1>a documentary on this first one I got it's cray Cray.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe you should make the documentary.

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<v Speaker 1>I just don't have the time or the patients. I

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<v Speaker 1>hope you enjoy it, though.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe you should make a podcast episode about it.

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<v Speaker 1>That I'm in the process of doing right now.

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<v Speaker 2>So, how you been splendid?

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<v Speaker 1>Any major changes in your life that you want to

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<v Speaker 1>show here with the class?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I just passed my first kidney stone one kilo.

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<v Speaker 1>One? Yeah? Is that why you haven't been wanting to

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<v Speaker 1>get frisky? No? Well, I guess if you're not gonna

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<v Speaker 1>say it, I will.

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<v Speaker 2>What are you gonna say?

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<v Speaker 1>I was just gonna tell everyone that we are mister

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<v Speaker 1>and missus cosmic peach.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the first time hearing of that we would you.

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<v Speaker 1>Like it to be the other way around? Mister and

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<v Speaker 1>missus conspiracy play time?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I'm a tad husband, take my name.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, but in all seriousness, though you've agreed to

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<v Speaker 1>sign on to a lifetime of craziness.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Divorce is pretty easy these days, so

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<v Speaker 2>we'll see.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, thanks, Ton, Well, I'm glad you have such a

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<v Speaker 1>positive outlook for us.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, I told you when we got married that if

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<v Speaker 2>you wanted to get divorced, I'm not because I don't

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<v Speaker 2>believe in divorce.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you believe in? So if you're ready for this

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<v Speaker 1>transaction to end, you'll just, you know, till death do

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<v Speaker 1>us part me?

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<v Speaker 2>No? Okay, good, you can just go give with someone

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<v Speaker 2>else and I'll give with someone else and we'll still

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<v Speaker 2>be married and we'll have to explain it to people

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<v Speaker 2>of parties.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow. Okay, Well, anyways, though, I think mister missus cosmic playtime.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Am I the mister?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Okay, yeah, let's I mean, it's twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>You can be the missus if you want. Isn't it

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<v Speaker 1>that how things go these days?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Get a niptuck, Sure you can.

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<v Speaker 1>It'll go along with your kidney stone, and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll actually make passing kidney stones easier, that's what you think,

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<v Speaker 2>because you have a badge hole now instead of a ween.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>But the kidney stone ain't gonna come.

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<v Speaker 2>Out your badge hole, your man badge.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, are you ready to learn about some fucking cults

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<v Speaker 1>and shit dazzle me? All right, Well, I want to

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<v Speaker 1>take you on a little journey to Geneva, Switzerland circa

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen eighty four.

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<v Speaker 2>I say, hell sinky, you hear Geneva? I know you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know what that's from.

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<v Speaker 1>No, I don't enlighten me.

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<v Speaker 2>Pretty got fingered?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, maybe somebody else got it. You ever been to Geneva, Switzerland?

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<v Speaker 2>Not since breakfast? No, I've never left the country except

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<v Speaker 2>for one.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, not even on a cruise. You never went to Mexico.

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<v Speaker 2>I will not go on cruises.

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<v Speaker 1>Get your hair braided for five dollars? No? All right,

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<v Speaker 1>well we are going there tonight. Have you ever heard

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<v Speaker 1>a two men named Joseph de Mambro and Luke Gerret.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't believe so.

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<v Speaker 1>So they formed a secret society called the Order of

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<v Speaker 1>the Solar Temple. But it's not to be confused with

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<v Speaker 1>the Solar Lodge of the Ordo templey whatever orientis. This

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<v Speaker 1>isn't an oto thing. They started their own shit, and

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<v Speaker 1>it was called the Order of the Solar Temple, and

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<v Speaker 1>they were claiming to be a continuation of the Knight's

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<v Speaker 1>Templar and incorporated an eclectic range of beliefs with aspects

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<v Speaker 1>of Rosicrucianism, theosophy, and New Age ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>So is it what was the called again?

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<v Speaker 1>See the Order of the Solar Temple. Okay, are you

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<v Speaker 1>familiar with like Rosicrucianism and stuff like that, and like okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so they basically hodgepodged a bunch of stuff together, but

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<v Speaker 1>really they essentially just preached about other worlds and planets

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<v Speaker 1>and they were obsessed with extraterrestrials and the Knights Templar.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you can imagine combining the Knights Templar with

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<v Speaker 1>like some fucking et shit, that's what it was. It

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<v Speaker 1>was like this new ag there's life on other plane.

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<v Speaker 1>It's kind of like Heaven's Gate, Like they're coming for us,

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<v Speaker 1>and they inspired all of the ancient cultures, and they

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<v Speaker 1>inspired all of the ancient civilizations and now they're coming

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<v Speaker 1>back for us talking about extraterrestrials.

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<v Speaker 2>So like a pan Spermia doomsday.

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<v Speaker 1>Cult kind of. So they were also obsessed with the

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<v Speaker 1>Dog Star serious they got all of their inspiration from

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<v Speaker 1>ancient civilizations, like ancient Egyptians, the civilization on Malta, who

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<v Speaker 1>built jig and tea? Have you ever heard of that

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<v Speaker 1>jig and tea. It's one of those places that Graham

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<v Speaker 1>Hancock talks about a lot. Okay, So they were talking

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<v Speaker 1>about the civilization on Malta. They were talking about the

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<v Speaker 1>civilization in ancient Turkey that built go Beckley Tepe.

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<v Speaker 2>That's the one I always hear in Tucker. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And then they were talking about the ancient Egyptians because

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<v Speaker 1>they all built structures in alignment with the dog Star Serious,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they had like the super hard on for

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<v Speaker 1>like these extraterrestrials that are gonna come from Serious and

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna come get them and they're gonna enlighten them

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<v Speaker 1>with all this wisdom and stuff because they were our

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<v Speaker 1>ancient past masters. Does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so far it's kind of a common thought process

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<v Speaker 2>that we see a lot of today.

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<v Speaker 1>But this is in the eighties, right, So it's like

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<v Speaker 1>one of the first ones to kind of catch on

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<v Speaker 1>to that idea, right besides Heaven's Gate, but heaven Skate

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think was as steeped in like culture as

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<v Speaker 1>these guys were, do you, because I feel like they

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<v Speaker 1>just made up a bunch of shit.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they were convinced that they had to hop on

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<v Speaker 2>the craft that was hiding and is it Haley's common

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<v Speaker 2>or hell bop, I always forget Haley's. So they weren't

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<v Speaker 2>really talking.

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<v Speaker 1>About civilizations and shit or theosophy. Yeah, they were kind

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<v Speaker 1>of making their own rules anyways, like we gotta castrate ourselves,

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<v Speaker 1>we gotta shave our heads, we gotta wear nikes, like

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<v Speaker 1>just weird shit like that, you know. But these guys

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<v Speaker 1>were kind of on a whole upper echelon type shit.

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<v Speaker 1>So Joseph Demambro was a French jeweler and an esotericist

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<v Speaker 1>with a history of fraud, and Luke Garret was a

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<v Speaker 1>Belgian homeopath known for lecturing on alternative medicine and spirituality.

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<v Speaker 2>So these two guys, if they were alive today, they

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<v Speaker 2>would both definitely have.

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<v Speaker 1>Podcasts, right yeah, no shit, they would be co hosts.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know. There's not a lot of information about

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<v Speaker 1>how these two met though, because it seems like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>this French jeweler with a history of fraud, why is

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<v Speaker 1>he in the circles with this this Belgian homeopathic guy

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<v Speaker 1>lecturing on alternative medicine and spirituality.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know a lot of the occult, he said.

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<v Speaker 2>The first guy, the French.

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<v Speaker 1>Dude, Joseph de Mambro, they're both friends.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was into the occult and the other guys

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<v Speaker 2>into alternative living and spiritualities. So I could see where

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<v Speaker 2>those pasts could cross.

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<v Speaker 1>They travel in small circe.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe they met at a conference or something.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, here's the thing about Joseph de Mambro. He actually

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<v Speaker 1>before he started the Order of the Solar Temple, he

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<v Speaker 1>had founded several past esoteric groups, and he had previous

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<v Speaker 1>affiliation with a number of other organizations, and some of

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<v Speaker 1>them included the Pyramid Organization and a new age group

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<v Speaker 1>founded by Dimambro that was later replaced by the Temple

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<v Speaker 1>was the Golden Way Foundation. So he was involved with

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<v Speaker 1>the Pyramid in and then he started another foundation called

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<v Speaker 1>Golden Way that he replaced with the Solar Temple after

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<v Speaker 1>he met Luke Jerai.

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<v Speaker 2>This kind of sounds like musicians, like you have maybe

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<v Speaker 2>two or three bands you're kind of experimenting, and then

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<v Speaker 2>you find the one that hits right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Shit, the Pyramids not that top charts. Yeah, gold So

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<v Speaker 2>the Solar Solar Temple that's his third band.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's his third band.

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<v Speaker 2>This is the one that sells autarinas.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think it didn't I think he didn't have like,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you have to have the other Kouk in

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<v Speaker 1>the crew to really get people on board. Like he

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<v Speaker 1>started the Pyramid and he started the Golden Way Foundation,

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<v Speaker 1>but he wasn't really gaining any traction in until he

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<v Speaker 1>involved Luke Jerra, who's like this homeopath guy. And so

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<v Speaker 1>it's like you get you two to.

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<v Speaker 2>Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham.

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<v Speaker 1>Yet right, Yeah, you have to have your your like us,

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<v Speaker 1>you needed me. So if you were to guess the

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<v Speaker 1>type of members that they recruited, who would just say that.

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<v Speaker 2>They were, oh, probably some freaks, some people that like

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<v Speaker 2>to you know, maybe ten years before they joined this cult,

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<v Speaker 2>they were following the Grateful Dead around.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you think they would like rub ointments on each

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<v Speaker 1>other holes?

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<v Speaker 2>And like it sounds like from the two mixes of

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<v Speaker 2>thoughts that these guys brought to the I assume they

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<v Speaker 2>call it a cult, but probably not they brought to

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<v Speaker 2>the group. It seems like there's a wide range of

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<v Speaker 2>people that could be into that stuff. You could get

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<v Speaker 2>your philosophers, you're you're you know, magic practitioners, h you're Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>the people that were gyps and oil on each other's bumholes.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's what I thought too. But you know what

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<v Speaker 1>the crazy thing is, they somehow managed like ninety percent

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<v Speaker 1>of their members were affluent former Catholics.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you said Rosicrucianism was.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So when you actually look at their mid Catholics, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>they converted them from Catholicism over to their brand of

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<v Speaker 1>like religiosity, I guess because they incorporated aspects of the Freemasons, Occultism, Christianity,

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<v Speaker 1>and Catholicism and they made this new religion I guess.

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<v Speaker 1>So most of the members were former Catholics, and most

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<v Speaker 1>of the members were actually drawn from the elite of society,

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<v Speaker 1>which also struck me as odd because members of the

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<v Speaker 1>Solar Temple were wealthy and socially successful, and it's kind

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<v Speaker 1>of in contrast to other cults who would pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>take any piece of shit that was willing to accept

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<v Speaker 1>their message or whatever. The Solar Temple members were described

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<v Speaker 1>as middle aged professionals who were highly cultured. Does that

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<v Speaker 1>seem odd to.

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<v Speaker 2>You, not necessarily, And when we get into Mike Colt

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<v Speaker 2>in the second half of this episode, you're going to

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<v Speaker 2>see a lot of that similar like you'll see. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't surprise me. When you look at a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of the people who join cults. It's a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>times people who have lived lives that were unfulfilled and

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<v Speaker 2>they're having a crisis and they need some kind of

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<v Speaker 2>new identity or new path and instead of finding religion

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<v Speaker 2>or joining a book club, they they go extreme with it.

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<v Speaker 2>It doesn't surprise me. It seems to be common. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>you even brought up Heaven's Gates. I think there's a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people in there. They already had kids and stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, it just you know, when people think of colts

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<v Speaker 1>and cult members, you think of like the Manson family,

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<v Speaker 1>like a bunch of long hairs with fucking Harry Pitts

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<v Speaker 1>and shit that are just like peace and love and

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<v Speaker 1>all like having sex with each other and rebind ointment

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<v Speaker 1>on each other's be holes.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know, there's a lot of different elements to

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<v Speaker 2>Colts and I I don't know. I'm I don't automatically

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<v Speaker 2>think of the Manson family with Colts.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, do you think of like Mormon colts.

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<v Speaker 2>Like you know, I think of like Jonestown.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Sure Jonestown wasn't picky on their members either though.

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<v Speaker 1>But so anyways, this guy, Joseph de Moombro, managed to

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<v Speaker 1>convince his followers that his baby daughter, who he named Emmanuel,

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<v Speaker 1>was possessed by an alien and that alien was communicating

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<v Speaker 1>to him through her and giving him all this inside

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<v Speaker 1>info on how the aliens were going to take him

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<v Speaker 1>and the followers to another planet near Sirius, and all

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<v Speaker 1>they had to do was believe so hard and devoutly

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<v Speaker 1>that they would be willing to give up their lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Sounds like most religions. So how old was this little girl?

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<v Speaker 2>An infant when he was receiving the message from her?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, and the cult went on for several years, so

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<v Speaker 1>I think she was like three by the time everything ended.

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<v Speaker 2>Well just spoiler alert, but only last three years.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, they had started it before she was ever born,

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<v Speaker 1>and then she was born. He names her Emmanuel. He

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<v Speaker 1>says he's getting these messages.

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<v Speaker 2>So they had already been together for a while. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he has this daughter.

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<v Speaker 1>That's where things start to go to crazy town. And

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<v Speaker 1>they were already so established at that point that they

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<v Speaker 1>the members were like, ooh, this is just the new

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<v Speaker 1>part of the fucking ascension.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were getting a message.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, And so basically these two yahoos went around telling

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<v Speaker 1>their follow they're all of their followers that the apocalypse

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<v Speaker 1>was coming, and they were getting these messages from the

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<v Speaker 1>baby girl.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, did you say how many like roughly people

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<v Speaker 2>were in there?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I can't tell you yet because I'm when I

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<v Speaker 1>reveal it, you'll be surprised at the end.

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<v Speaker 2>That's like the big twist is there is only three people,

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<v Speaker 2>all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So the this a little backstory. The Solar Temple was

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<v Speaker 1>heavily influenced by theosophus Alice Bailey. Have you heard of her?

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<v Speaker 2>This sounds familiar. That's theosophy, that's the Blevotsky I don't

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<v Speaker 2>know if I've heard of her.

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<v Speaker 1>So I just put a little bit about her in

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<v Speaker 1>my notes because I feel like it's important because she

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<v Speaker 1>was Alice Bailey was inspired by Blovotsky. But she was

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<v Speaker 1>a British and American writer and she wrote about twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five books on theosophy, and one of she was one

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<v Speaker 1>of the first writers to ever use the term new age.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is I think I heard of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Alice Bailey was actually one of the first ever

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<v Speaker 1>to use that term new age. And then she inspired

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<v Speaker 1>douchebags like this and they started cults and shit. But

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<v Speaker 1>Alice Bailey's works, written between nineteen nineteen and nineteen forty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>describe a wide ranging neo theosophical system of esoteric thought,

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<v Speaker 1>covering topics like how spirituality relates to the solar system, meditation, healing,

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual psychology, and the destiny of nations. She described the

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<v Speaker 1>majority of her work as having been telepathically dictated to

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<v Speaker 1>her by a master of wisdom, who she referred to

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<v Speaker 1>only as the Tibetan or by the initials d K.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's no surprise Alice Bailey was initially inspired by

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<v Speaker 1>Madam Blovotsky, who also channeled a Tibetan spirit to write

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<v Speaker 1>all of her theosophical works, and Aleister Crowley also channeled

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<v Speaker 1>a Tibetan entity that he called Lom. And so all

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<v Speaker 1>three of them have Tibetan entity inspired theosophical work, and

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<v Speaker 1>they all three have inspired some real fucked up shit.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is it about Tibet?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, do you remember an episode I did where I

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<v Speaker 1>covered Tibetan weirdness and like all the dead bodies and

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00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.960
<v Speaker 1>shit that turn up by that mountain because they're searching

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<v Speaker 1>for that hidden kingdom.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 1>So I actually did this presentation on the cult of Conspiracy,

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<v Speaker 1>and anybody who's listening to this right now can go

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<v Speaker 1>back and find that episode. But a lot of Theosophists

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<v Speaker 1>and Hitler have been obsessed with tibet for the longest

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<v Speaker 1>and they think there's like this hidden civilization there and

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<v Speaker 1>if you get high enough on the mountain you can

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<v Speaker 1>find it, or like these entities can be channeled there. Bolvotsky, Crowley,

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<v Speaker 1>Alice Bailey, Hitler, they were all really really interested in Tibetan.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't want to call it folklore, but it's that's

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<v Speaker 1>kind of what it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, they did bring us the best form of Buddhism

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<v Speaker 2>and the best book of the dead.

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<v Speaker 1>What are they called.

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<v Speaker 2>The Tibetan Book of the Dead and Tibetan Buddhism.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, there's no fancy name.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe another languages.

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<v Speaker 1>So are you a big tibet fan.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. I really do like the Tibetan Book

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<v Speaker 2>of the Dead. I tried to read the Egyptian Book

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<v Speaker 2>of the Dead and I couldn't.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you want to start a cult behind it?

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<v Speaker 2>I already did. It only lasted about three years.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, listen, before I did that presentation, you know what

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<v Speaker 1>the extent of my knowledge on Tibet was the Dali

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<v Speaker 1>Lama watching the Golden Child with Eddie Murphy.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I mean that pretty much covers it all.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what else do you need to know? So because

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<v Speaker 1>of this inspiration, like they took from Alice Bailey to

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<v Speaker 1>and Rosicrucianism and the Freemasons and all this stuff. Night's

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<v Speaker 1>Temple our stuff, and it's, like I said before, they

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<v Speaker 1>hodgepodged it into one religion. So bustin if you have

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<v Speaker 1>any questions, Okay, I have.

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<v Speaker 2>Been and I will continue to do so.

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<v Speaker 1>So there were a number of initiation rituals of a

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<v Speaker 1>Masonic nature. The members also moved up in degrees like Masons,

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<v Speaker 1>but they only had three degrees first degree, p second degree,

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<v Speaker 1>third degree, and they practiced, like I said, Masonic rituals,

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<v Speaker 1>but they also practiced a number of magical rituals. They

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<v Speaker 1>used to leucinogens and invoked sex magic in which sexual

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<v Speaker 1>activities were performed in order to acquire some type of

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<v Speaker 1>spiritual gain.

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<v Speaker 2>This sounds like my kind of cult. Fucking unpsychedelics. Yeah,

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00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.359
<v Speaker 2>fucking on psychoedegic ald me is the easiest thing to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, you told me you didn't want no part

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<v Speaker 1>of it when you on psychedelics.

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<v Speaker 2>Mushroom sex is the weirdest thing you'll ever do.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you would you give it one out of five mushrooms?

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<v Speaker 2>Or it's just I don't know how to explain it.

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<v Speaker 2>Just the concept of it is hard to wrap your

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<v Speaker 2>mind around when you're tripping. I do know that certain

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<v Speaker 2>people do have sex on psychedelics, and certain psychedelics are

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<v Speaker 2>different than others. But yeah, I don't know. To me

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<v Speaker 2>those two whenever they mix it is in a cult

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<v Speaker 2>like ex setting.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems you want to do DMT and half sex.

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<v Speaker 2>That'd be impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>You want to do acid in half sex?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I'm not a fan of it.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, that's they had to be doing something in these

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00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:55.480
<v Speaker 1>sex rituals, hallucinogens and invoked sex magic. So they're just

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<v Speaker 1>all tripping balls and just like netting all over each

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<v Speaker 1>other out in the woods somewhere France.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you never said where they're really really like practicing out.

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<v Speaker 1>Of Geneva, Switzerland.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's the headquarters.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, But so this Colt did as Colt stew

384
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<v Speaker 1>and it came down to transit time, as they called it,

385
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.920
<v Speaker 1>and Joseph de Mambro and Luke Jerra came up with

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<v Speaker 1>a list of how their members were going to die,

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00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:28.079
<v Speaker 1>and it went a little something like this. There was

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<v Speaker 1>three categories.

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<v Speaker 2>There's so many threes in this. There's three degrees. You

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00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.920
<v Speaker 2>said the chick was three when the cult, right, yeah, banded,

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<v Speaker 2>and I said, there's only three members that.

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<v Speaker 1>Listen, all right, there's three categories. The traders who had

393
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:53.119
<v Speaker 1>to be murdered, the immortals who were going to be

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00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.680
<v Speaker 1>helped in death, which essentially just means they're going to

395
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<v Speaker 1>be killed by other members, and then the awakened ones

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00:26:01.279 --> 00:26:05.440
<v Speaker 1>who were going to commit voluntary suicide. And that was

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00:26:05.480 --> 00:26:06.599
<v Speaker 1>the three categories.

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00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:09.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, if it's involuntary, it's not suicide.

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00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:15.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but that's the I guess that's the traders category

400
00:26:16.119 --> 00:26:20.480
<v Speaker 1>because they're just going to get straight up murdered. So

401
00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:22.759
<v Speaker 1>you still want to be a part of this cult.

402
00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.039
<v Speaker 2>So you will be killed in one of those three ways.

403
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:27.880
<v Speaker 2>No matter like.

404
00:26:28.359 --> 00:26:32.240
<v Speaker 1>What, no matter what. Yes, as part of the transit,

405
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the transit is leaving this yeah vessel. Yes, the great transitioning.

406
00:26:39.920 --> 00:26:41.880
<v Speaker 2>And some fucking baby told them this.

407
00:26:42.759 --> 00:26:44.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that fucking bitch tit.

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00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:49.400
<v Speaker 2>Of a baby, alien possessed baby. Yes, so far this

409
00:26:49.519 --> 00:26:51.079
<v Speaker 2>shit tracks.

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00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:57.599
<v Speaker 1>So on September thirtieth, nineteen ninety four, I should have

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00:26:57.640 --> 00:27:02.279
<v Speaker 1>put this in the nineties. Fucking well, you didn't know

412
00:27:02.279 --> 00:27:03.759
<v Speaker 1>about it? Yeah, I didn't.

413
00:27:05.359 --> 00:27:05.440
<v Speaker 3>So.

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00:27:05.599 --> 00:27:10.559
<v Speaker 1>On September thirtieth, nineteen ninety four, the Duteaux family was

415
00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the first to get it. They were lured into an

416
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:18.039
<v Speaker 1>underground tunnel of some sorts by two other members and

417
00:27:18.119 --> 00:27:22.759
<v Speaker 1>repeatedly stabbed to death, including their three month old baby.

418
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:29.240
<v Speaker 2>They stabbed the baby, Yeah, dude, damn what the baby?

419
00:27:29.279 --> 00:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you think?

420
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:31.279
<v Speaker 2>They stabbed it three times?

421
00:27:32.799 --> 00:27:34.720
<v Speaker 1>But don't you think that's crazy though?

422
00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:37.880
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's hard to do anything crazy when you're

423
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:40.440
<v Speaker 2>in a could just trying to out crazy the last guy.

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00:27:40.559 --> 00:27:43.720
<v Speaker 1>But I guess they would fall into the immortals category

425
00:27:43.839 --> 00:27:47.759
<v Speaker 1>who had to be helped in their death, because there

426
00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:49.759
<v Speaker 1>was the ones who were going to get murdered, the

427
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:53.200
<v Speaker 1>ones that were going to get helped. Quote unquote, and

428
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:56.160
<v Speaker 1>then the awakened ones who were going to murder themselves.

429
00:27:56.319 --> 00:27:58.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so what the fuck's the difference between being murdered

430
00:27:58.599 --> 00:28:06.880
<v Speaker 2>and being helped die the same thing? Sounds like they

431
00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:08.559
<v Speaker 2>murdered those fuckers in the cave.

432
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:11.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like doctor Kovorkian type shit.

433
00:28:11.200 --> 00:28:16.960
<v Speaker 2>They just wasn't that this was murdered. This is their traders, right.

434
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:19.240
<v Speaker 1>I guess they must have been traders.

435
00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.279
<v Speaker 2>They had some Syrian summon them to a cave to

436
00:28:22.319 --> 00:28:26.440
<v Speaker 2>get stabbed repeatedly. That is being helped to die. I

437
00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:31.559
<v Speaker 2>suppose you know, that should be the one of the

438
00:28:31.559 --> 00:28:35.160
<v Speaker 2>things you can plead in court murder in the first

439
00:28:35.359 --> 00:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>second manslaughter And I just helped him.

440
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:43.440
<v Speaker 1>Die assisted in a cave repeatedly.

441
00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Step he was gonna die anyway.

442
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:52.839
<v Speaker 1>But so, as the list suggests, all the members got

443
00:28:52.880 --> 00:29:01.759
<v Speaker 1>different outcomes, and so their cult expanded from Switzer to France,

444
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:06.960
<v Speaker 1>and there was kind of like two camps, if you will.

445
00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 1>And in France they find twenty dead bodies that had

446
00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:21.160
<v Speaker 1>been shot point blank in the head with one gun.

447
00:29:22.680 --> 00:29:27.039
<v Speaker 1>They find twenty one dead bodies who had died from

448
00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:31.759
<v Speaker 1>gunshot wounds but were previously drugged with sleeping pills. They

449
00:29:31.759 --> 00:29:36.839
<v Speaker 1>were helped, they were hoped, and they find another two

450
00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:44.880
<v Speaker 1>that died of suffocation from plastic bags. Now in Switzerland,

451
00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:51.799
<v Speaker 1>so oka in Switzerland. The dead bodies they found had

452
00:29:51.839 --> 00:29:55.480
<v Speaker 1>been injected with poison and or acid.

453
00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:03.799
<v Speaker 2>Acid not like the driver Hoffmann, No.

454
00:30:03.880 --> 00:30:07.599
<v Speaker 1>Like like the kind that'll kill you if you get it.

455
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Intervenious fuck that would sing. Oh, I think about it.

456
00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.440
<v Speaker 1>I bet that kidney stone doesn't.

457
00:30:18.920 --> 00:30:25.240
<v Speaker 2>Just traveling up? Did it? All?

458
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:30.359
<v Speaker 1>Right? So but basically in the end, they found all

459
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:35.960
<v Speaker 1>these bodies arranged in a network of chalets in both

460
00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:41.200
<v Speaker 1>France and Switzerland with timed explosives that went off and

461
00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 1>set these chalets on fire because they were basically trying

462
00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 1>to dispose of the bodies. But it didn't work because

463
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:50.640
<v Speaker 1>they were able to put the fire out and they

464
00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:52.799
<v Speaker 1>found all these dead people.

465
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:55.599
<v Speaker 2>No, I apologize if you already said this. But did

466
00:30:55.640 --> 00:30:57.839
<v Speaker 2>the two leader dudes have to do it too?

467
00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they also died, but they didn't they weren't counted

468
00:31:00.960 --> 00:31:02.920
<v Speaker 1>as a part of the.

469
00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:09.079
<v Speaker 2>Victims victimsly slash members. So what about the baby?

470
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:10.640
<v Speaker 1>She died too?

471
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.720
<v Speaker 2>How did she die? I will have to have help because.

472
00:31:15.519 --> 00:31:17.359
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well I'll have to look it up. Because there's

473
00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:19.559
<v Speaker 1>not a lot of information on what happened with the

474
00:31:19.640 --> 00:31:22.200
<v Speaker 1>little girl, so she was other than the fact that

475
00:31:22.240 --> 00:31:24.960
<v Speaker 1>they all committed suicide, so I would assume they gave

476
00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:26.079
<v Speaker 1>her pills or something.

477
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:31.200
<v Speaker 2>So was there any way to like leave some of

478
00:31:31.240 --> 00:31:33.559
<v Speaker 2>them alive so they would burn alive or they all

479
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:34.880
<v Speaker 2>died before they were burned.

480
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:38.319
<v Speaker 1>It looked like they had all died before they were burned.

481
00:31:39.279 --> 00:31:44.559
<v Speaker 1>And total fifty two members were counted that day, apart

482
00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.599
<v Speaker 1>from the leaders and their children, and it was later

483
00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:52.519
<v Speaker 1>determined that out of the fifty two, only fifteen were

484
00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:53.880
<v Speaker 1>genuine suicides.

485
00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>So these guys had wives that were on board with

486
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:01.599
<v Speaker 2>this shit. Sure advanced me.

487
00:32:02.319 --> 00:32:06.319
<v Speaker 1>What's crazy about this is the year that this went

488
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:10.680
<v Speaker 1>down with all the mass murder slash suicide. It's the

489
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.880
<v Speaker 1>same year that the Heaven's Gate cult poisoned themselves to death.

490
00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.839
<v Speaker 2>And it's the same year you were born. Well, fuck you,

491
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:18.440
<v Speaker 2>it was.

492
00:32:18.559 --> 00:32:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Do you think I'm Joseph the mom brow crazy?

493
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:22.960
<v Speaker 2>This was two months before your birthday?

494
00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:27.160
<v Speaker 1>It was. But I'm just saying, they have the Heaven's

495
00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:30.279
<v Speaker 1>Gate cult in this cult have so many similarities and

496
00:32:30.319 --> 00:32:32.400
<v Speaker 1>they both killed themselves in the same year.

497
00:32:33.279 --> 00:32:35.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, why didn't this one get any press?

498
00:32:36.079 --> 00:32:40.079
<v Speaker 1>It makes you wonder, Well, it was a European ordeal

499
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:43.680
<v Speaker 1>where but we hear about stuff like that all the time.

500
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Was this before or after I don't remember.

501
00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:52.680
<v Speaker 1>I think this Heaven This was after Heaven's Skates, Yes.

502
00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:58.240
<v Speaker 2>Spring, So yeah, these days, that's plenty of time for

503
00:32:58.319 --> 00:33:00.079
<v Speaker 2>that ship to die out for the next one to

504
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:01.839
<v Speaker 2>be big in the news. I don't know. Back then,

505
00:33:01.880 --> 00:33:05.839
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember seeing this. No Heaven's Gate shit, that's

506
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:06.839
<v Speaker 2>seared into my memory.

507
00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.200
<v Speaker 1>But if those two happened in the same year, you

508
00:33:09.240 --> 00:33:12.680
<v Speaker 1>would think that they would have gotten equal coverage, especially

509
00:33:12.720 --> 00:33:14.480
<v Speaker 1>since they had such similar beliefs.

510
00:33:15.559 --> 00:33:19.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there's gotta be some dateline episode out there about this.

511
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.799
<v Speaker 1>But you know, it's crazy. It doesn't even stop there,

512
00:33:25.119 --> 00:33:30.000
<v Speaker 1>because apparently there were surviving members of the Solar.

513
00:33:29.680 --> 00:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Temple they like boogied before the death ritual.

514
00:33:36.000 --> 00:33:39.839
<v Speaker 1>Well, they backed out last minute, and some were not

515
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:43.079
<v Speaker 1>chosen for the transit as they were told.

516
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:47.160
<v Speaker 2>So some backed out and some were told you're not coming. Yeah,

517
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:50.880
<v Speaker 2>you don't need to die by murder.

518
00:33:51.039 --> 00:33:55.400
<v Speaker 1>Help or they wantide they wanted it.

519
00:33:55.599 --> 00:33:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so it was like getting cut from the varsity team.

520
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:02.559
<v Speaker 1>Right, so on dissembled twenty third, nineteen ninety five. A

521
00:34:02.640 --> 00:34:08.760
<v Speaker 1>year later, fourteen more members surviving members of the Solar Temple,

522
00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:14.320
<v Speaker 1>including three children, were found in a circular star formation

523
00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and an isolated clearing of some park in France.

524
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:21.400
<v Speaker 2>So the JV squad finally got to travel, right, they

525
00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:23.480
<v Speaker 2>made the transit. I wonder if they were just like,

526
00:34:23.559 --> 00:34:27.440
<v Speaker 2>let's just try, and I know they said we couldn't come.

527
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:29.559
<v Speaker 1>Peter, dude, they thought about it.

528
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:32.079
<v Speaker 2>Part Maybe they were getting messages. Did any of them

529
00:34:32.119 --> 00:34:32.840
<v Speaker 2>have a baby?

530
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:34.920
<v Speaker 1>They had? There was three children there.

531
00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:37.840
<v Speaker 2>Who are like, hey, no, could come now.

532
00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:42.280
<v Speaker 1>So there were two other bodies that were found near

533
00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:47.719
<v Speaker 1>the fourteen, right, and so the investigation hypothesized that the

534
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.880
<v Speaker 1>fourteen people, including the three children, had taken sedative pills.

535
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:56.840
<v Speaker 1>Then the two others that they found near the fourteen,

536
00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:02.679
<v Speaker 1>they were identified as Jean Pierre and Andre Friedel, shot

537
00:35:02.760 --> 00:35:05.840
<v Speaker 1>each member in the head one by one with two

538
00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:10.440
<v Speaker 1>twenty two caliber rifles. After that, they poured gasoline on

539
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:14.800
<v Speaker 1>the bodies and set them ablaze before they both shot

540
00:35:14.840 --> 00:35:17.320
<v Speaker 1>themselves in the head with a revolver.

541
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:18.639
<v Speaker 2>So that they would fall into the fire.

542
00:35:19.000 --> 00:35:22.199
<v Speaker 1>Nope, the two the bodies of the two perpetrators were

543
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:26.719
<v Speaker 1>found alongside the burned ones, but they were not themselves burned.

544
00:35:28.000 --> 00:35:32.559
<v Speaker 1>So that's I said fifty two before. Yeah, but you

545
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:34.880
<v Speaker 1>was fourteen fifteen, sixteen.

546
00:35:35.000 --> 00:35:38.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but that number fifty two you said didn't include

547
00:35:38.599 --> 00:35:39.599
<v Speaker 2>the family members.

548
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.239
<v Speaker 1>It didn't include the members, the founder, the founders, So

549
00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:46.960
<v Speaker 1>we're talking just cult members right now, that'd be fifty

550
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:47.920
<v Speaker 1>two plus sixteen.

551
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, why don't the families of this founders.

552
00:35:49.880 --> 00:35:54.079
<v Speaker 1>Count because they're not technically cult members? Right? Would you

553
00:35:54.159 --> 00:35:57.840
<v Speaker 1>count Jones in with the Jonestown?

554
00:35:58.000 --> 00:36:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, there's cult leaders and there's cult members, and it

555
00:36:01.679 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 2>just seems to me that it's weird that they differentiate

556
00:36:04.079 --> 00:36:05.400
<v Speaker 2>the death total.

557
00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Well, to look into this, which I tried to find,

558
00:36:09.880 --> 00:36:12.480
<v Speaker 1>they make no mention of wives, and they make no

559
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.880
<v Speaker 1>mention of other children except for Emmanuel. And it's almost

560
00:36:16.880 --> 00:36:23.719
<v Speaker 1>impossible to find information on how they uh ended up

561
00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:24.920
<v Speaker 1>killing themselves.

562
00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:25.920
<v Speaker 2>I wonder why.

563
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:27.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's interesting.

564
00:36:27.599 --> 00:36:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Check Reddit.

565
00:36:29.159 --> 00:36:32.840
<v Speaker 1>It's almost as if they maybe didn't go through with

566
00:36:32.920 --> 00:36:35.800
<v Speaker 1>it and skip town or something.

567
00:36:35.519 --> 00:36:38.239
<v Speaker 2>Or like, but it did say they did die or

568
00:36:38.280 --> 00:36:39.280
<v Speaker 2>did I just assume that?

569
00:36:39.639 --> 00:36:41.679
<v Speaker 1>But you know how they'll say like, oh, yeah, and

570
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:44.639
<v Speaker 1>the members were or in the cult leaders were found

571
00:36:44.719 --> 00:36:46.920
<v Speaker 1>in there in a house nearby, and they had all

572
00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:49.079
<v Speaker 1>committed suicide. But it's like, how do we know that,

573
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Like I like, we didn't see their bodies.

574
00:36:53.480 --> 00:36:55.199
<v Speaker 2>Well that's what I always say, how do we know

575
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:55.960
<v Speaker 2>any of it's real?

576
00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:01.679
<v Speaker 1>But so anyways, there goes another sixteen but it doesn't

577
00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:07.840
<v Speaker 1>even stop there because on March twenty second, nineteen ninety seven,

578
00:37:08.679 --> 00:37:14.039
<v Speaker 1>two five more surviving members of the Solar Temple died

579
00:37:14.079 --> 00:37:18.920
<v Speaker 1>in a mass suicide in Saint Casimir, Ca, Quebec.

580
00:37:19.280 --> 00:37:21.880
<v Speaker 2>So at this time you could just off a bunch

581
00:37:21.880 --> 00:37:25.320
<v Speaker 2>of motherfuckers and make it look like they were Solar

582
00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:31.719
<v Speaker 2>Temple members. Yeah, I guess, because seems like there's not

583
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of there's not like a roster you can

584
00:37:34.679 --> 00:37:36.519
<v Speaker 2>go check for membership of this thing.

585
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:44.960
<v Speaker 1>If you looked hard, well there were they were members

586
00:37:45.159 --> 00:37:48.159
<v Speaker 1>that had been So this cult did a lot of

587
00:37:48.239 --> 00:37:52.400
<v Speaker 1>like video ritualism where they'd film it, and a lot

588
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 1>of these surviving members were on like the videos and stuff,

589
00:37:56.079 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 1>and they knew who they were and had been identified

590
00:37:58.760 --> 00:38:01.519
<v Speaker 1>in like the You remember how was his fuck from

591
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Heaven's Gate used to film himself and his members all

592
00:38:03.920 --> 00:38:07.760
<v Speaker 1>the time. So these mass suicides that they kept finding

593
00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:12.360
<v Speaker 1>were confirmed members. But it just seems odd to me

594
00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.960
<v Speaker 1>that it was like they were not chosen for the

595
00:38:16.039 --> 00:38:19.440
<v Speaker 1>transit or whatever, and then still ended up years later

596
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>doing this mass suicide business, like nineteen ninety five, flash forward,

597
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:26.679
<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety seven, five more.

598
00:38:27.039 --> 00:38:29.679
<v Speaker 2>Maybe the transit comes in waves, I don't know.

599
00:38:29.760 --> 00:38:33.119
<v Speaker 1>But so they basically burnt their house down with them

600
00:38:33.159 --> 00:38:33.920
<v Speaker 1>inside of it.

601
00:38:35.679 --> 00:38:38.440
<v Speaker 2>And Marie, did you say how many there were.

602
00:38:38.880 --> 00:38:44.239
<v Speaker 1>Five more the family? It was two couples and one

603
00:38:44.280 --> 00:38:49.719
<v Speaker 1>of the people their dad, So it was two couples

604
00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:54.239
<v Speaker 1>and a dad of one of the people apparent, so

605
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:59.679
<v Speaker 1>five total. And then the responding officers found three teenage

606
00:38:59.679 --> 00:39:03.280
<v Speaker 1>survives at the scene, the children of one of the

607
00:39:03.320 --> 00:39:06.480
<v Speaker 1>couples who were found to be completely drugged out of

608
00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.440
<v Speaker 1>their mind, and the teenagers burned the house down at

609
00:39:10.480 --> 00:39:15.079
<v Speaker 1>their parents' request after being drugged and begging for their lives,

610
00:39:15.719 --> 00:39:19.719
<v Speaker 1>and they managed to survive the ordeal. But that brings

611
00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:23.679
<v Speaker 1>the death toll, not including Joseph de mambro and Luke Gerrei,

612
00:39:24.400 --> 00:39:34.760
<v Speaker 1>to seventy four. That's crazy, isn't it. And over the

613
00:39:34.840 --> 00:39:40.599
<v Speaker 1>course of what ninety four to ninety seven, it's.

614
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:44.320
<v Speaker 2>Kind of quick really well as far as cult stories go.

615
00:39:44.960 --> 00:39:50.079
<v Speaker 1>In the aftermath, many conspiracy theories quote unquote quote revolved

616
00:39:50.119 --> 00:39:55.079
<v Speaker 1>around the event's most allegend government and organized crime involvement.

617
00:39:55.719 --> 00:39:59.239
<v Speaker 2>See I was looking for like somewhere to go with that,

618
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:02.760
<v Speaker 2>and you didn't really see anything. But so what was

619
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:04.400
<v Speaker 2>the speculation on that?

620
00:40:05.119 --> 00:40:09.360
<v Speaker 1>So Luke JARREI there's not much to find on him,

621
00:40:09.599 --> 00:40:12.239
<v Speaker 1>but Joseph de Mombro had been caught up in a

622
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:17.559
<v Speaker 1>bunch of fraudulent schemes where he was like transporting illegal

623
00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:20.480
<v Speaker 1>weapons and stuff like that. And there was a lot

624
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.320
<v Speaker 1>of money laundering going on with the Red Cross in

625
00:40:23.400 --> 00:40:30.440
<v Speaker 1>the Solar Temple, and with the members being so affluent

626
00:40:31.760 --> 00:40:37.079
<v Speaker 1>and wealthy, and they kind of were picky and choosy

627
00:40:37.119 --> 00:40:44.519
<v Speaker 1>on who they would let in. They kind of were

628
00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:46.559
<v Speaker 1>starting to put the pieces together and they thought that

629
00:40:46.559 --> 00:40:48.960
<v Speaker 1>they could be involved in like some kind of governmental

630
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.880
<v Speaker 1>or organized crime business. So, I mean, how do you

631
00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:57.719
<v Speaker 1>feel about that? How many would you give it? One

632
00:40:58.199 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 1>out of ten Solar Temples?

633
00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 2>I think I need more information. It just seems like

634
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:09.039
<v Speaker 2>it's a pretty There had to be so many details

635
00:41:09.079 --> 00:41:10.599
<v Speaker 2>in there that we need to.

636
00:41:10.559 --> 00:41:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Know, Like just on what I gave you, I would

637
00:41:15.239 --> 00:41:20.880
<v Speaker 1>give it six solar temples. Six Yeah, m.

638
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:27.800
<v Speaker 2>I'd go five. It's like your average cult story. It's

639
00:41:27.840 --> 00:41:30.039
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting. I mean, it seems like it's got a

640
00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:30.800
<v Speaker 2>lot of foundation.

641
00:41:31.239 --> 00:41:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Do you not find it so interesting though? That it's

642
00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.480
<v Speaker 1>one It was one of the first New Age cults,

643
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:39.599
<v Speaker 1>and it had so many connections back to Heaven's Skate

644
00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:43.199
<v Speaker 1>who we know. Seems like there was more going on there.

645
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:48.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that part's intriguing too, that they were kind of

646
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.199
<v Speaker 2>going on at the same time. There was some alien

647
00:41:52.800 --> 00:41:59.719
<v Speaker 2>aspect to both of their belief systems. And I mean,

648
00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:05.880
<v Speaker 2>suicide's pretty common in these these big cult stories, so yeah,

649
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:09.719
<v Speaker 2>I mean there's probably a lot more in there that

650
00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:10.519
<v Speaker 2>we could uncover.

651
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I also just think it's interesting how like a lot

652
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:18.480
<v Speaker 1>of these things that get started on these like new

653
00:42:18.559 --> 00:42:22.760
<v Speaker 1>ag weird theosophical principles, they always end up in like

654
00:42:22.920 --> 00:42:24.239
<v Speaker 1>just skill your just die.

655
00:42:26.400 --> 00:42:30.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, if the Tibetan Buddhists are ray, they're gonna come

656
00:42:30.239 --> 00:42:34.320
<v Speaker 2>back as Ambas on dog shit do it all over again.

657
00:42:35.119 --> 00:42:38.320
<v Speaker 2>They just lost like five karma points, maybe even three.

658
00:42:39.639 --> 00:42:42.239
<v Speaker 1>So did you find it interesting at least?

659
00:42:42.320 --> 00:42:44.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? It was? It was a good one to hear

660
00:42:44.119 --> 00:42:46.360
<v Speaker 2>about that I like I said, I'd never heard of

661
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:52.400
<v Speaker 2>this one. Well, thanks for listening, Thanks for sharing.

662
00:42:54.719 --> 00:42:58.119
<v Speaker 4>On October the fifth, nineteen ninety four, five people were

663
00:42:58.159 --> 00:43:01.760
<v Speaker 4>found dead in this house in Canada. Ten hours later,

664
00:43:01.800 --> 00:43:05.119
<v Speaker 4>in Switzerland, twenty five bodies were discovered in a chalet

665
00:43:05.320 --> 00:43:08.360
<v Speaker 4>in the small town of Salva, and twenty three more

666
00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:12.000
<v Speaker 4>in a nearby village. In less than twenty four hours,

667
00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:16.000
<v Speaker 4>fifty three people had died there remained set alight by

668
00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:21.920
<v Speaker 4>identical incendiary devices. Among the dead eight children, several senior

669
00:43:21.960 --> 00:43:26.639
<v Speaker 4>civil servants, and two millionaires. But they had something else

670
00:43:26.679 --> 00:43:31.199
<v Speaker 4>in common. All were members of a secretive sect, the

671
00:43:31.360 --> 00:43:32.920
<v Speaker 4>Order of the Solar Temple.

672
00:43:41.639 --> 00:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>Do you have something for me? I do I feel

673
00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:47.760
<v Speaker 1>like yours is going to be better than mine?

674
00:43:48.599 --> 00:43:49.960
<v Speaker 2>You feel like mine's going to be better?

675
00:43:50.320 --> 00:43:53.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? No, I don't know, because it doesn't seem like

676
00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:55.599
<v Speaker 1>you were very impressed by the Solar Temple.

677
00:43:55.760 --> 00:43:59.840
<v Speaker 2>Well you didn't start to fucking think if you want

678
00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:02.679
<v Speaker 2>me to be impressed, if you want to impress me,

679
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:03.880
<v Speaker 2>start a real cult.

680
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.599
<v Speaker 1>I want. But I was trying to go for these

681
00:44:06.639 --> 00:44:09.280
<v Speaker 1>ones that nobody's heard about. So I mean the ones

682
00:44:09.320 --> 00:44:13.159
<v Speaker 1>that have like all the obvious cult or like government

683
00:44:13.199 --> 00:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>connections or like weird CIA stuff. Everybody knows about those ones,

684
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, but these lesser known ones that are not

685
00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:23.039
<v Speaker 1>as researched are harder to dig stuff up on.

686
00:44:23.559 --> 00:44:27.559
<v Speaker 2>Actually, yeah, I was surprised that you looked and couldn't

687
00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.679
<v Speaker 2>find like details on the guy's families and that kind

688
00:44:31.760 --> 00:44:35.519
<v Speaker 2>of stuff, because seems like that was almost deliberately left out.

689
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:39.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, there's more information on Alice Bailey than either Luke

690
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.159
<v Speaker 1>Gree or Joseph Demambro. I mean, it's hard to find

691
00:44:43.199 --> 00:44:48.920
<v Speaker 1>fucking dogshit on them, and a lot of the not Wikipedia,

692
00:44:49.000 --> 00:44:50.920
<v Speaker 1>but like a lot of the other sites you can

693
00:44:50.960 --> 00:44:53.800
<v Speaker 1>go to if you google the Solar Temple, they have

694
00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:57.400
<v Speaker 1>the death count wrong. They say only sixteen died, So

695
00:44:57.440 --> 00:44:59.880
<v Speaker 1>it's like they purposely manipulate the numbers too.

696
00:45:02.559 --> 00:45:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, which time were they talking.

697
00:45:04.519 --> 00:45:07.559
<v Speaker 1>About, right, that's because it was over a span of

698
00:45:07.599 --> 00:45:08.119
<v Speaker 1>a few years.

699
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:14.159
<v Speaker 2>There, you go, maybe that's the missing number because you

700
00:45:14.280 --> 00:45:16.920
<v Speaker 2>said there was. I did the math when you were

701
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:23.400
<v Speaker 2>talking about the deaths in France forty three and then

702
00:45:23.400 --> 00:45:30.039
<v Speaker 2>in Geneva. Yeah, you said fifty two in total, forty

703
00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:36.199
<v Speaker 2>three plus sixteen is fifty nine, So maybe that extra

704
00:45:36.440 --> 00:45:40.760
<v Speaker 2>five is luxure right the families? Yeah, who knows that

705
00:45:42.679 --> 00:45:45.119
<v Speaker 2>they need to make a documentary on Netflix about it?

706
00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:46.239
<v Speaker 1>That's what I said.

707
00:45:46.639 --> 00:45:50.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, I was being facetious, but it'd be a good one.

708
00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:52.639
<v Speaker 1>If they could find more info.

709
00:45:52.280 --> 00:45:55.880
<v Speaker 2>On it, Well they would netflixify it. Yeah, they sure won,

710
00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and then Tom O'Neill.

711
00:45:57.079 --> 00:45:59.760
<v Speaker 1>Would cry, So what cold do you have for me?

712
00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:07.239
<v Speaker 2>Yes, for my cult? On this edition of Inside the

713
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:13.320
<v Speaker 2>CULTI Verse, I chose I probably way more well known

714
00:46:13.400 --> 00:46:15.639
<v Speaker 2>one than the one you talked about. In fact, definitely

715
00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:19.719
<v Speaker 2>more well known. And it's called Synanon any.

716
00:46:19.559 --> 00:46:24.199
<v Speaker 1>Relation to the nutmeg or pumpkin spice cult?

717
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:24.920
<v Speaker 2>What's that.

718
00:46:27.679 --> 00:46:28.199
<v Speaker 1>Cinnamon?

719
00:46:36.480 --> 00:46:42.039
<v Speaker 2>Some reason? I don't think you're gonna edit that one. Well,

720
00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.280
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of funny why they named it Synanon. Why, Oh,

721
00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:48.760
<v Speaker 2>we will get to that. But so Cynanon is kind

722
00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:52.280
<v Speaker 2>of something that maybe older people would know about because

723
00:46:52.360 --> 00:46:55.519
<v Speaker 2>it was kind of a phenomenon when it was taking place,

724
00:46:55.559 --> 00:46:59.280
<v Speaker 2>and it did get a lot of attention and coverage,

725
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:02.920
<v Speaker 2>especially as it like progressed. And this thing ran from

726
00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:08.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen fifty eight to nineteen ninety one, where it officially disbanded,

727
00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:13.480
<v Speaker 2>but as we'll see, there is still remnants of it

728
00:47:13.559 --> 00:47:17.719
<v Speaker 2>in the culture, and I think they just did some

729
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:20.800
<v Speaker 2>documentaries in the last couple of years. Both of them

730
00:47:21.199 --> 00:47:26.039
<v Speaker 2>stream on like I think Paramount Plus and HBO oh, so.

731
00:47:26.000 --> 00:47:28.000
<v Speaker 1>This one is probably more well known.

732
00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:30.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it is, and I just I.

733
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:32.079
<v Speaker 1>Started to actually haven't heard of it though.

734
00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:37.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I hadn't either. When Brandy Renee came on Conspiracy

735
00:47:37.639 --> 00:47:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Playtime to talk about Matthew North, we ended up going

736
00:47:40.519 --> 00:47:43.679
<v Speaker 2>down a lot of different rabbit holes, and se Do

737
00:47:44.639 --> 00:47:49.639
<v Speaker 2>is one of them, and we ended up mentioning c

738
00:47:49.960 --> 00:47:54.480
<v Speaker 2>do ce do. It's all caps ce edu. It's one

739
00:47:54.480 --> 00:47:58.800
<v Speaker 2>of those wilderness programs where you send troubled teens. Anyway,

740
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:02.599
<v Speaker 2>we're getting to end, so at the beginning of this thing,

741
00:48:03.280 --> 00:48:07.079
<v Speaker 2>it revolves around a guy named Charles D. Dric, who

742
00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:11.480
<v Speaker 2>we might refer to at certain points as Chuck or

743
00:48:11.719 --> 00:48:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Daddy because he was big Daddy.

744
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:17.719
<v Speaker 1>Was he a good looking guy.

745
00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:22.280
<v Speaker 2>He should sue Sam Tripoli for copyright infringement. He was

746
00:48:22.440 --> 00:48:24.400
<v Speaker 2>not a good looking guy. In fact, he was kind

747
00:48:24.440 --> 00:48:27.519
<v Speaker 2>of weird looking. He was kind of a heavy set dude.

748
00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:32.960
<v Speaker 2>He'd had about with meningitis when he was a young kid,

749
00:48:33.039 --> 00:48:35.719
<v Speaker 2>and so like half his face was kind of.

750
00:48:37.159 --> 00:48:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Almost paralyzed Bell's palsy.

751
00:48:40.199 --> 00:48:42.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, yeah, here, I'll show you a picture of him

752
00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:43.960
<v Speaker 2>and you could even clip it in.

753
00:48:44.599 --> 00:48:50.400
<v Speaker 1>But oh let's see. Oh no, no, no, I mean

754
00:48:50.440 --> 00:48:52.199
<v Speaker 1>he looks like he could be a He looks like

755
00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:54.440
<v Speaker 1>John Wayne Gacy with Bell's palsy.

756
00:48:56.480 --> 00:49:00.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, tell me he doesn't. I mean all fa why

757
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:00.960
<v Speaker 2>guys look alike?

758
00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:06.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, So he's big daddy.

759
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So Chuck's story is he was born in Ohio,

760
00:49:13.559 --> 00:49:16.960
<v Speaker 2>one of the least good states out there. Fuck you, no,

761
00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:20.239
<v Speaker 2>I've never been about to go right, but he was

762
00:49:20.280 --> 00:49:23.840
<v Speaker 2>born in Ohio. No hate, I'll check it out, report back.

763
00:49:24.960 --> 00:49:32.039
<v Speaker 2>But he had a father who was kind of a raging, drunk,

764
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:37.639
<v Speaker 2>not very nice guy, and he ended up dying in

765
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:42.320
<v Speaker 2>a car accident with another woman who he'd been running

766
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.960
<v Speaker 2>around town with. And I think Chuck was four at

767
00:49:45.960 --> 00:49:48.639
<v Speaker 2>the time, and he had two little brothers. He was

768
00:49:48.639 --> 00:49:52.079
<v Speaker 2>the oldest of three, and he kind of took on

769
00:49:52.239 --> 00:49:56.599
<v Speaker 2>the father role and was very close with his mother,

770
00:49:57.039 --> 00:50:00.840
<v Speaker 2>some would say almost inappropriately. So I think there was

771
00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:05.239
<v Speaker 2>some interview footage where he was talking about how when

772
00:50:05.280 --> 00:50:08.440
<v Speaker 2>she married. I think he was in his early teens.

773
00:50:08.639 --> 00:50:12.159
<v Speaker 2>It kind of tore their relationship apart, and he said

774
00:50:12.199 --> 00:50:15.880
<v Speaker 2>that his woman or his girl had been stolen.

775
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:18.280
<v Speaker 1>From him talking about his mom.

776
00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:25.679
<v Speaker 2>Yes, So anyway, one of Chuck's brothers died from complications

777
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:29.440
<v Speaker 2>of the flu, and he kind of always blamed himself

778
00:50:29.480 --> 00:50:33.079
<v Speaker 2>for that. He kind of was aimless. But somehow he

779
00:50:33.199 --> 00:50:36.719
<v Speaker 2>managed to get into Notre Dame and he got real

780
00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:40.360
<v Speaker 2>close with one of the I don't know the title,

781
00:50:40.480 --> 00:50:44.159
<v Speaker 2>but one of the Catholic guys there. Spent a lot

782
00:50:44.199 --> 00:50:46.760
<v Speaker 2>of time with him, said to have had a lot

783
00:50:46.800 --> 00:50:51.159
<v Speaker 2>of influence on his life. And then he returned home

784
00:50:52.599 --> 00:50:56.480
<v Speaker 2>and because he flunked out of school, returned home, he

785
00:50:56.559 --> 00:50:59.239
<v Speaker 2>was just a royal fuck up, just drunk all the time.

786
00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:03.760
<v Speaker 2>And he ended up having some friends talk him into

787
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:08.480
<v Speaker 2>and this is after he'd moved to California. So he

788
00:51:08.519 --> 00:51:11.119
<v Speaker 2>moved to California and made some friends. A couple of

789
00:51:11.159 --> 00:51:17.599
<v Speaker 2>them talked him into going to an AA meeting, and

790
00:51:18.960 --> 00:51:23.800
<v Speaker 2>this was like groundbreaking for Chuck. He saw these drunks

791
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:26.199
<v Speaker 2>in one room telling stories, and as soon as he

792
00:51:26.239 --> 00:51:28.639
<v Speaker 2>saw anybody could talk, he rushed to the stage and

793
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:33.239
<v Speaker 2>he talked for over an hour, and his style was

794
00:51:33.360 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of like, you know, he didn't hold any punches,

795
00:51:37.239 --> 00:51:41.519
<v Speaker 2>and he found like, wow, I can really connect, I

796
00:51:41.519 --> 00:51:44.719
<v Speaker 2>can get through with these people. And he started having

797
00:51:44.719 --> 00:51:48.239
<v Speaker 2>little meetings on his own, you know, with members of AA,

798
00:51:48.679 --> 00:51:50.639
<v Speaker 2>and he would do it at his house and it

799
00:51:50.760 --> 00:51:54.599
<v Speaker 2>just kind of started snowballing, and before he knew it,

800
00:51:55.480 --> 00:51:58.199
<v Speaker 2>they all couldn't fit in his house anymore. So he

801
00:51:58.280 --> 00:52:00.559
<v Speaker 2>ended up getting some donations from few of them, and

802
00:52:00.599 --> 00:52:03.639
<v Speaker 2>they rented this kind of a shitty building in Santa

803
00:52:03.679 --> 00:52:10.000
<v Speaker 2>Monica and moved in there. And at this point there's

804
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:13.119
<v Speaker 2>like heroin addicts. They're also starting to gravitate towards this.

805
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:16.519
<v Speaker 2>At the time, in the late fifties, heroin was big

806
00:52:16.559 --> 00:52:18.800
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of people were doing it, but there

807
00:52:18.880 --> 00:52:21.320
<v Speaker 2>was no treatment centers.

808
00:52:21.000 --> 00:52:22.960
<v Speaker 1>For it, so they were trying to get help.

809
00:52:23.440 --> 00:52:28.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they were okay, it was like AA, so people

810
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:28.760
<v Speaker 2>trying to quit.

811
00:52:28.679 --> 00:52:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Drinking and also heroin a.

812
00:52:31.840 --> 00:52:35.719
<v Speaker 2>Well, Heroin kind of started coming into this into the circle.

813
00:52:36.000 --> 00:52:38.880
<v Speaker 2>These these heroin addicts that wanted help, like you said,

814
00:52:38.960 --> 00:52:43.320
<v Speaker 2>and they kind of rubbed the alcoholics the wrong way.

815
00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:45.360
<v Speaker 2>They thought they were like a lower class of people.

816
00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:49.360
<v Speaker 2>And a couple of the alcoholics ALKI.

817
00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.280
<v Speaker 1>Thought the heroin addicts were a lesser class of people.

818
00:52:52.000 --> 00:52:54.119
<v Speaker 2>That's what they said. A few of them had some

819
00:52:54.159 --> 00:52:57.519
<v Speaker 2>concerns with the people that they were starting to let in.

820
00:52:58.519 --> 00:53:01.719
<v Speaker 2>And at this point it was called TLC for Tender

821
00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:05.199
<v Speaker 2>Loving Care. That's what he had on the building. But

822
00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:08.480
<v Speaker 2>so to kind of get into like why the heroin

823
00:53:08.559 --> 00:53:13.880
<v Speaker 2>guys liked it and gals was because he it's called

824
00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:20.440
<v Speaker 2>attack therapy. He incorporated this technique into these sessions and

825
00:53:20.480 --> 00:53:21.719
<v Speaker 2>they called it the game.

826
00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:24.760
<v Speaker 1>What was fun about it?

827
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so the game, I'm going to read a little

828
00:53:30.280 --> 00:53:36.519
<v Speaker 2>excerpt from an article from Cabinet that talks quite a

829
00:53:36.599 --> 00:53:41.679
<v Speaker 2>bit about this Synanon group. The game consisted of a

830
00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:45.079
<v Speaker 2>dozen or so addicts sitting in a circle. One player

831
00:53:45.119 --> 00:53:48.239
<v Speaker 2>would start talking about the appearance or behavior of another,

832
00:53:48.400 --> 00:53:52.239
<v Speaker 2>picking out their defects and criticizing their character. But as

833
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:55.159
<v Speaker 2>soon as the subject of the attack tried to defend

834
00:53:55.239 --> 00:53:58.679
<v Speaker 2>him or herself, other players would join the barrage, unleashing

835
00:53:58.719 --> 00:54:04.199
<v Speaker 2>no holds barred, verbal onslaught. Bulgarity was encouraged, talk dirty

836
00:54:04.280 --> 00:54:07.440
<v Speaker 2>and live clean, said Deidrich, and so the other members

837
00:54:07.440 --> 00:54:11.559
<v Speaker 2>would accuse the defendant of real and imagined crimes. Of

838
00:54:11.559 --> 00:54:15.079
<v Speaker 2>being selfish, unthinking, of being a no good, ugly diseased

839
00:54:15.119 --> 00:54:17.559
<v Speaker 2>cocksucker who was too weak to go straight and was

840
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.599
<v Speaker 2>much too much of an asshole junkie, cry baby motherfucker

841
00:54:20.639 --> 00:54:21.239
<v Speaker 2>to admit it.

842
00:54:22.239 --> 00:54:22.639
<v Speaker 1>Damn.

843
00:54:23.320 --> 00:54:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Faced with this unrelenting group assault, the recipient would eventually

844
00:54:27.000 --> 00:54:29.639
<v Speaker 2>have a little choice but to admit their wrongdoing and

845
00:54:29.679 --> 00:54:32.239
<v Speaker 2>promise to him in their ways. Then the group would

846
00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:34.920
<v Speaker 2>turn to the next person and begin all over again.

847
00:54:35.960 --> 00:54:40.000
<v Speaker 1>So they got braided until they got clean. Yeah, that's

848
00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:41.280
<v Speaker 1>the thought behind it.

849
00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:44.559
<v Speaker 2>And to go back a little bit with these sessions

850
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:48.079
<v Speaker 2>that he was having and when it was like an

851
00:54:48.079 --> 00:54:50.800
<v Speaker 2>official meeting place and it was in that brick building.

852
00:54:50.880 --> 00:54:54.679
<v Speaker 2>His only rules there was two was of course no

853
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:58.519
<v Speaker 2>drugs or alcohol and no violence. And so in the

854
00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.599
<v Speaker 2>in the game, the rule was you were encouraged to

855
00:55:02.639 --> 00:55:05.519
<v Speaker 2>stay seated while you did it, but you could say

856
00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:08.119
<v Speaker 2>anything you wanted as long as it wasn't like threatening

857
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:08.480
<v Speaker 2>vio it.

858
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:10.840
<v Speaker 1>But they took turns, right, everybody got berated.

859
00:55:11.079 --> 00:55:15.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And well, that's the funny thing is Chuck was

860
00:55:16.599 --> 00:55:19.719
<v Speaker 2>not a participate part of the game unless he was

861
00:55:19.800 --> 00:55:24.400
<v Speaker 2>helping Barid somebody else. And you're going to see was

862
00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:28.719
<v Speaker 2>he still ALKI No, he took his last drink the

863
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:32.440
<v Speaker 2>day before he went to the AA. Mab at hypocrite

864
00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:35.599
<v Speaker 2>until later in the story. But no, he's a hypocrite.

865
00:55:35.760 --> 00:55:37.760
<v Speaker 2>You're going to see like the rules of this thing

866
00:55:37.800 --> 00:55:41.519
<v Speaker 2>as it grows, it all kind of suits Chuck, Sure,

867
00:55:41.679 --> 00:55:49.000
<v Speaker 2>big daddy. So this thing started to kind of like

868
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:55.400
<v Speaker 2>gain some following after these heroin addicts, many of who

869
00:55:55.400 --> 00:56:00.360
<v Speaker 2>attributed their success in staying clean to participating in the game,

870
00:56:01.440 --> 00:56:05.039
<v Speaker 2>and the alcoholics didn't really like it. So pretty much

871
00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:08.519
<v Speaker 2>around the time that this thing was taking off, it

872
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:14.519
<v Speaker 2>pretty much switched from alcoholics to strictly heroin addicts. And

873
00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:17.920
<v Speaker 2>he kind of went along with this. He thought, you know,

874
00:56:18.000 --> 00:56:20.760
<v Speaker 2>there's not you know, NA wasn't a thing yet, it

875
00:56:20.880 --> 00:56:24.679
<v Speaker 2>was just AA, and so he took it upon himself

876
00:56:24.760 --> 00:56:27.639
<v Speaker 2>to kind of just build this thing that he saw working.

877
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:33.840
<v Speaker 2>And so one of the junkies or as Chuck I mean,

878
00:56:33.880 --> 00:56:38.000
<v Speaker 2>he demanded that they call themselves dope fiends. So one

879
00:56:38.039 --> 00:56:43.480
<v Speaker 2>of the dope fiends slurred the words symposium and seminar

880
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:47.679
<v Speaker 2>together just kind of on accident, and it came out

881
00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Cininar and Chuck sat there and went sennin On, like

882
00:56:54.719 --> 00:57:00.480
<v Speaker 2>you get Zion, you get the a Noon, you know,

883
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:03.199
<v Speaker 2>and he just thought it kind of rang, and so

884
00:57:04.039 --> 00:57:06.679
<v Speaker 2>they officially became Synanon. And I think there was even

885
00:57:06.719 --> 00:57:10.880
<v Speaker 2>some issues with him calling his center TLC Tender Loving Care,

886
00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:15.239
<v Speaker 2>because that already existed. So Synanon is what it officially

887
00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:19.559
<v Speaker 2>became known as. And he kind of started seeing that

888
00:57:19.679 --> 00:57:24.119
<v Speaker 2>he could build something bigger, like an alternative lifestyle, almost utopian,

889
00:57:24.599 --> 00:57:29.320
<v Speaker 2>and so members started moving in and staying there. And

890
00:57:29.400 --> 00:57:31.920
<v Speaker 2>at first you could graduate from the program, but he

891
00:57:32.000 --> 00:57:35.440
<v Speaker 2>saw that so many of them that left kind of

892
00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:40.000
<v Speaker 2>relapsed and came right back. So as this thing continued

893
00:57:40.039 --> 00:57:45.119
<v Speaker 2>to grow, he decided that, yeah, you stay here even

894
00:57:45.159 --> 00:57:47.760
<v Speaker 2>after you're sober, and it kind of became a like

895
00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:52.320
<v Speaker 2>intentional community where there was work, there was chores, and

896
00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:53.280
<v Speaker 2>they would all split.

897
00:57:53.599 --> 00:57:55.920
<v Speaker 1>So do you think this started out as like something

898
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:57.440
<v Speaker 1>that was actually helping.

899
00:57:57.239 --> 00:57:59.800
<v Speaker 2>People for sure? Yeah, because in the beginning, I was

900
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:03.480
<v Speaker 2>to say, this thing goes from like addiction treatment to

901
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:07.960
<v Speaker 2>a societal experiment to eventually almost like a terrorist organization.

902
00:58:08.159 --> 00:58:11.639
<v Speaker 2>Oh god, And I mean all along you're starting even now,

903
00:58:11.719 --> 00:58:16.320
<v Speaker 2>you're starting to see like cult undertones with the thing

904
00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:19.920
<v Speaker 2>about alcoholics Anonymous was there was no leader, and that's

905
00:58:19.960 --> 00:58:23.159
<v Speaker 2>why so many people love it to this day. It's just,

906
00:58:24.039 --> 00:58:28.039
<v Speaker 2>you know, a group of people and this was not that.

907
00:58:28.800 --> 00:58:33.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's almost like I thought, as I was

908
00:58:33.079 --> 00:58:37.840
<v Speaker 2>researching this, it's like if you mixed alcoholics Anonymous with

909
00:58:38.880 --> 00:58:43.400
<v Speaker 2>scientology and Waco oh Ricky would get the story of Synanon.

910
00:58:44.119 --> 00:58:48.840
<v Speaker 2>Really Yeah, so yeah, they had twenty four hour day

911
00:58:49.400 --> 00:58:52.480
<v Speaker 2>split into two twelve hour shifts, and some people would

912
00:58:52.519 --> 00:58:54.599
<v Speaker 2>work the days and some people would work the nights,

913
00:58:54.920 --> 00:58:57.920
<v Speaker 2>and you would show up. And a lot of the

914
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:01.440
<v Speaker 2>heroin addicts said that it was obvious that Chuck, big

915
00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:05.320
<v Speaker 2>daddy guy, he did not know shit about like what

916
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:09.239
<v Speaker 2>heroin withdrawal was. I mean, he would just make sure

917
00:59:09.280 --> 00:59:13.840
<v Speaker 2>people were in a room and they would come down,

918
00:59:14.000 --> 00:59:16.320
<v Speaker 2>and then once they were weren't feeling so shitty, he

919
00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:19.719
<v Speaker 2>would put him into the groups and they would participate

920
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:25.599
<v Speaker 2>in this community. And it really started to kind of

921
00:59:25.679 --> 00:59:29.079
<v Speaker 2>drawing some attention. A lot of people loved the game.

922
00:59:29.400 --> 00:59:35.760
<v Speaker 2>I guess Lennard Nimoy went, Barry Seal from the Black Panthers.

923
00:59:35.880 --> 00:59:37.639
<v Speaker 1>They were all heroin addicts.

924
00:59:37.800 --> 00:59:41.440
<v Speaker 2>No, but they liked the game, and they.

925
00:59:41.079 --> 00:59:43.559
<v Speaker 1>Like they just liked telling people what pieces of shit

926
00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:43.920
<v Speaker 1>they were.

927
00:59:44.039 --> 00:59:46.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess Lennard Nimoy loved to go just fucking

928
00:59:46.920 --> 00:59:49.880
<v Speaker 2>scream at people. He was probably like Chuck, I doubt

929
00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:55.320
<v Speaker 2>anybody would fucking start talking shit to Spock. So this

930
00:59:55.400 --> 00:59:56.000
<v Speaker 2>thing out.

931
00:59:56.119 --> 00:59:59.000
<v Speaker 1>So another star Trek involved in a cult.

932
01:00:00.239 --> 01:00:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Weird And there was a movie in nineteen sixty one

933
01:00:05.760 --> 01:00:11.679
<v Speaker 2>made about this Synanon and there was like a motown

934
01:00:12.280 --> 01:00:15.079
<v Speaker 2>jazzy song that was because I guess they would just

935
01:00:15.159 --> 01:00:18.079
<v Speaker 2>have parties. And I guess the heroin addicts really knew

936
01:00:18.119 --> 01:00:20.920
<v Speaker 2>how to dance. That's what a lot of them were saying.

937
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:23.519
<v Speaker 1>Just throw them out there and let them few call

938
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:24.320
<v Speaker 1>over everybody.

939
01:00:24.400 --> 01:00:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Well they're not on heroin at that time, they're recovered.

940
01:00:28.400 --> 01:00:31.599
<v Speaker 1>So can I ask you something? This is working just

941
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:34.039
<v Speaker 1>based on pure humiliation alone.

942
01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:41.199
<v Speaker 2>Well that apparently people needed to like be shamed in

943
01:00:41.320 --> 01:00:46.039
<v Speaker 2>order to look at themselves. This attack therapy model wasn't unique.

944
01:00:46.360 --> 01:00:51.119
<v Speaker 2>He made it big, and I mean there's elements of

945
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:53.400
<v Speaker 2>that stuff that I've seen in other cults.

946
01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, you sure don't like it when I use it

947
01:00:55.800 --> 01:00:56.199
<v Speaker 1>on you?

948
01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:00.679
<v Speaker 2>What do you mean? It's like a nat there, It's

949
01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:03.800
<v Speaker 2>like a nightly ritual, I'm not allowed to turn it

950
01:01:03.840 --> 01:01:15.360
<v Speaker 2>on you. So around the time that like he's taken

951
01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:20.360
<v Speaker 2>in all these heroin addicts, this one thing is this

952
01:01:20.480 --> 01:01:25.440
<v Speaker 2>thing was always like egalitarian he had. I mean in

953
01:01:25.480 --> 01:01:29.360
<v Speaker 2>the days that this was going on in the late fifties,

954
01:01:29.800 --> 01:01:35.400
<v Speaker 2>it was still pretty integrated. But yeah, so a woman

955
01:01:35.519 --> 01:01:39.360
<v Speaker 2>named Betty she ended up joining, and.

956
01:01:39.320 --> 01:01:41.760
<v Speaker 1>She was they were they calling them in's and.

957
01:01:42.039 --> 01:01:44.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm sure in other parts of the world.

958
01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:46.199
<v Speaker 1>But that was part of the attack therapy.

959
01:01:46.559 --> 01:01:50.360
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't in all these game sessions. It's so curious,

960
01:01:50.440 --> 01:01:54.440
<v Speaker 2>but you could call anybody anything, who knows. But there

961
01:01:54.519 --> 01:01:57.679
<v Speaker 2>was a guy who was a football player. I don't

962
01:01:57.719 --> 01:01:59.960
<v Speaker 2>remember what school it was. It was a big college

963
01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:03.760
<v Speaker 2>in California, somewhere where John Madden was like the defensive coach.

964
01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:07.400
<v Speaker 2>And this black guy he ended up joining. And the

965
01:02:07.440 --> 01:02:09.599
<v Speaker 2>thing he said he loved about it was like he

966
01:02:09.639 --> 01:02:14.320
<v Speaker 2>walked in there and he saw a bunch of people

967
01:02:14.679 --> 01:02:17.079
<v Speaker 2>just kind of co mingling, and so him and his

968
01:02:17.119 --> 01:02:20.639
<v Speaker 2>wife joined and he kind of ended up being a

969
01:02:20.679 --> 01:02:23.559
<v Speaker 2>bigger part of it too as this story progresses. But

970
01:02:24.159 --> 01:02:26.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember his last name. His name was Buddy.

971
01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:32.599
<v Speaker 2>But he liked that and then Chuck ended up marrying Betty,

972
01:02:33.199 --> 01:02:36.320
<v Speaker 2>and so you had an interracial marriage there. And that's

973
01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:39.719
<v Speaker 2>another thing he would like arrange marriages. He would say, oh,

974
01:02:39.760 --> 01:02:43.480
<v Speaker 2>you guys have been dating. You know, you've been together

975
01:02:43.519 --> 01:02:47.400
<v Speaker 2>for six months. In my opinion, you either hit six

976
01:02:47.480 --> 01:02:49.639
<v Speaker 2>months and you either break up or you marry. So

977
01:02:49.679 --> 01:02:52.599
<v Speaker 2>a lot of these people he was making them get married. Well,

978
01:02:53.119 --> 01:02:56.079
<v Speaker 2>and there was kids born into this thing, and that

979
01:02:56.159 --> 01:02:59.960
<v Speaker 2>becomes a big part of this story. So it was

980
01:03:00.280 --> 01:03:04.360
<v Speaker 2>kind of a commune. As it grew even more, I was.

981
01:03:04.360 --> 01:03:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Gonna say, you can at some point they just start

982
01:03:07.119 --> 01:03:07.920
<v Speaker 1>fucking each other.

983
01:03:08.519 --> 01:03:14.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, it gets weird with that, and so he would

984
01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:19.159
<v Speaker 2>make the kids go to this Synanon school and instead

985
01:03:19.199 --> 01:03:24.360
<v Speaker 2>of teachers, they had people who were nowhere near being

986
01:03:24.719 --> 01:03:29.400
<v Speaker 2>certified to teach. They were called demonstrators, and they would

987
01:03:29.679 --> 01:03:33.039
<v Speaker 2>they're just ex heroin addicts who would I guess always

988
01:03:33.079 --> 01:03:35.199
<v Speaker 2>an addict or once an addict, always an addict. So

989
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:37.280
<v Speaker 2>they were heroin addicts in recovery, and they were in

990
01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:40.920
<v Speaker 2>charge of these kids. And if you had kids, or

991
01:03:41.000 --> 01:03:45.079
<v Speaker 2>you came in there with kids, you thought of everybody

992
01:03:45.159 --> 01:03:47.920
<v Speaker 2>as your parents. And so some of these kids would

993
01:03:47.960 --> 01:03:51.920
<v Speaker 2>go like weeks at a time without seeing their moms,

994
01:03:52.320 --> 01:03:55.239
<v Speaker 2>and they weren't allowed to call their moms anything but

995
01:03:55.360 --> 01:03:58.480
<v Speaker 2>their names because it's kind of like, yeah, we're all

996
01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:03.559
<v Speaker 2>your mom and dad in here. And so people stuck

997
01:04:03.559 --> 01:04:06.480
<v Speaker 2>around for it, and a lot of them thought it

998
01:04:06.519 --> 01:04:09.000
<v Speaker 2>was a good idea to raise kids communally instead of

999
01:04:09.079 --> 01:04:17.679
<v Speaker 2>like the family unit. At some point the government stepped

1000
01:04:17.719 --> 01:04:21.159
<v Speaker 2>in and said, you have to shut this thing down.

1001
01:04:21.280 --> 01:04:22.840
<v Speaker 1>Where was it taking place at?

1002
01:04:23.119 --> 01:04:28.119
<v Speaker 2>So it started in Santa Monica and California. Yeah, and

1003
01:04:28.159 --> 01:04:30.760
<v Speaker 2>it started in a seedy neighborhood when he was in

1004
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:34.280
<v Speaker 2>that brick building. And once he starts getting like some

1005
01:04:34.440 --> 01:04:38.800
<v Speaker 2>donations from members, he kind of moves into I think

1006
01:04:38.480 --> 01:04:40.639
<v Speaker 2>it's called the del Mar Club, and it was a

1007
01:04:40.719 --> 01:04:41.679
<v Speaker 2>kind of ritzy thing.

1008
01:04:42.119 --> 01:04:45.239
<v Speaker 1>And how was he able to move into some ritzy thing.

1009
01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:49.280
<v Speaker 1>It's not like heroin attics are huge contributors to shit.

1010
01:04:49.840 --> 01:04:54.280
<v Speaker 2>No, But he actually at one point started getting people

1011
01:04:54.320 --> 01:04:58.199
<v Speaker 2>who were just entranced by the thing he was building

1012
01:04:58.280 --> 01:04:59.559
<v Speaker 2>and they wanted to be a part of.

1013
01:04:59.519 --> 01:05:01.760
<v Speaker 1>It, and they would just give him money.

1014
01:05:02.440 --> 01:05:06.039
<v Speaker 2>Well, they joined, and he said, you can join, but

1015
01:05:06.199 --> 01:05:09.159
<v Speaker 2>you have to sign stuff over to me. I mean,

1016
01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:12.079
<v Speaker 2>he had one guy sign over an entire mortgage company.

1017
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:15.920
<v Speaker 2>He had one woman donate a what a million dollars?

1018
01:05:17.519 --> 01:05:18.639
<v Speaker 1>Shut the fuck up.

1019
01:05:18.760 --> 01:05:23.079
<v Speaker 2>So in his mind he starts seeing this and he's.

1020
01:05:23.280 --> 01:05:24.760
<v Speaker 1>He sounds like a TV preacher.

1021
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Well his mind he goes from like wanting to help

1022
01:05:28.920 --> 01:05:31.679
<v Speaker 2>people into I can turn this into a business, and

1023
01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:36.920
<v Speaker 2>he actually starts like buying properties and building more like

1024
01:05:37.000 --> 01:05:41.840
<v Speaker 2>little communes. And at one point he had this nice

1025
01:05:41.920 --> 01:05:44.280
<v Speaker 2>house that he bought and it was called home Place,

1026
01:05:44.639 --> 01:05:47.320
<v Speaker 2>and everybody knew home Place was where Chuck lived, and

1027
01:05:47.360 --> 01:05:49.360
<v Speaker 2>if you were lucky enough to be in his inner circle,

1028
01:05:49.400 --> 01:05:51.840
<v Speaker 2>you could also go up there and like to be

1029
01:05:51.920 --> 01:05:55.920
<v Speaker 2>called to home Place was like the highest honor.

1030
01:05:57.159 --> 01:06:00.960
<v Speaker 1>And this fat guy with Bell's Paul, see that screams

1031
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:02.400
<v Speaker 1>in people's faces.

1032
01:06:02.800 --> 01:06:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he.

1033
01:06:04.880 --> 01:06:08.039
<v Speaker 1>Did not see like how mentally unstable we are as

1034
01:06:08.039 --> 01:06:10.480
<v Speaker 1>a nation when you hear stuff like this.

1035
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:13.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, the guy had a talent, Like you said, he

1036
01:06:13.119 --> 01:06:16.159
<v Speaker 2>was like a TV preacher. That's what he did in

1037
01:06:16.199 --> 01:06:16.800
<v Speaker 2>these earthies.

1038
01:06:16.840 --> 01:06:20.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but when I see people signing stuff over to

1039
01:06:20.119 --> 01:06:23.320
<v Speaker 1>TV preachers, I get just as mad. It's still the same,

1040
01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:25.400
<v Speaker 1>it's still the same mental illness.

1041
01:06:25.639 --> 01:06:29.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, at least these people had a personal relationship. They

1042
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:32.840
<v Speaker 2>weren't just like going to a megachurch and signing away

1043
01:06:32.920 --> 01:06:38.639
<v Speaker 2>their livelihoods. But it is very similar. But this thing

1044
01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:42.559
<v Speaker 2>was getting so much attention and being like prage.

1045
01:06:42.719 --> 01:06:45.199
<v Speaker 1>After they got clean, they just go out and do

1046
01:06:45.320 --> 01:06:49.360
<v Speaker 1>more drugs and come right back and get more screamed at.

1047
01:06:49.440 --> 01:06:53.199
<v Speaker 2>And well, that's when he decided to not let them graduate.

1048
01:06:53.679 --> 01:06:57.719
<v Speaker 2>He once you graduated, you were still part of the community.

1049
01:06:58.159 --> 01:07:00.960
<v Speaker 2>You didn't really leave this thing at a certain point.

1050
01:07:01.119 --> 01:07:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Oh, you were just enslaved.

1051
01:07:03.960 --> 01:07:07.079
<v Speaker 2>It's not even enslaved. You could leave in the early days.

1052
01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:10.719
<v Speaker 2>It kind of became a problem later on. But at first, anyway,

1053
01:07:10.800 --> 01:07:15.119
<v Speaker 2>this was all voluntary, and I would say it was

1054
01:07:15.239 --> 01:07:19.760
<v Speaker 2>voluntary except for these kids, and that shit gets dark

1055
01:07:20.000 --> 01:07:22.519
<v Speaker 2>with the kids. But we're not quite there yet. So

1056
01:07:22.960 --> 01:07:25.840
<v Speaker 2>I started to mention that the government stepped in and

1057
01:07:25.880 --> 01:07:31.280
<v Speaker 2>said you're not certified to be doing this, and rather

1058
01:07:31.320 --> 01:07:34.159
<v Speaker 2>than to fight it, he pled guilty and he ended

1059
01:07:34.199 --> 01:07:36.559
<v Speaker 2>up serving the thirty days in jail. And when he

1060
01:07:36.639 --> 01:07:40.119
<v Speaker 2>did that, it was just it was like a big

1061
01:07:40.159 --> 01:07:44.840
<v Speaker 2>boom because people saw this guy as someone who's willing

1062
01:07:44.920 --> 01:07:48.480
<v Speaker 2>to like go down for his cause. And I don't

1063
01:07:48.519 --> 01:07:52.320
<v Speaker 2>remember it wasn't Jerry Brown, who was the governor in

1064
01:07:52.360 --> 01:07:54.599
<v Speaker 2>the sixties, like he's mentioned in the World Canyon Book

1065
01:07:54.639 --> 01:07:57.679
<v Speaker 2>a lot, But it was somebody Brown, probably a family

1066
01:07:57.679 --> 01:08:00.800
<v Speaker 2>member or even the dad of him. But this governor

1067
01:08:01.880 --> 01:08:05.480
<v Speaker 2>came in and said and gave him like free reign.

1068
01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:08.440
<v Speaker 2>He said, all right, we'll get the certification worked out.

1069
01:08:08.960 --> 01:08:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Never happened, so he's kind of just allowed now to

1070
01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:17.359
<v Speaker 2>operate however he wants to. And a lot of people

1071
01:08:17.600 --> 01:08:22.520
<v Speaker 2>in surrounding states even were like, Hey, look at what

1072
01:08:22.560 --> 01:08:24.479
<v Speaker 2>they're doing over there. This seems like something I want

1073
01:08:24.520 --> 01:08:26.560
<v Speaker 2>to be a part of. And he called the straits

1074
01:08:27.039 --> 01:08:30.520
<v Speaker 2>the people who didn't have addictions. He called them lifestylers.

1075
01:08:31.199 --> 01:08:34.640
<v Speaker 2>They came in just enamored with what was going on,

1076
01:08:35.199 --> 01:08:39.359
<v Speaker 2>and that's when the money started pouring in. He'd get

1077
01:08:39.399 --> 01:08:42.720
<v Speaker 2>these people who some of them had kids. I listened

1078
01:08:42.760 --> 01:08:44.920
<v Speaker 2>to one guy in an interview and he was like

1079
01:08:45.960 --> 01:08:49.159
<v Speaker 2>fifteen or sixteen, and this was like in the early seventies,

1080
01:08:49.359 --> 01:08:51.439
<v Speaker 2>when this thing really had been rolling for a while,

1081
01:08:51.880 --> 01:08:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and he joined and he was just kind of like,

1082
01:08:56.880 --> 01:08:58.920
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck is this that I'm a part of.

1083
01:08:58.960 --> 01:09:02.479
<v Speaker 2>He thought the school was really weird, and he just

1084
01:09:03.000 --> 01:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>he didn't want to be there, but he also was

1085
01:09:06.079 --> 01:09:10.520
<v Speaker 2>kind of fascinated by it. And so at one point

1086
01:09:11.760 --> 01:09:18.039
<v Speaker 2>they got to the spot where some of these kids

1087
01:09:18.079 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 2>were acting rather unruly and he didn't know what to

1088
01:09:23.079 --> 01:09:25.119
<v Speaker 2>do with it. And I was talking about that ex

1089
01:09:25.199 --> 01:09:30.439
<v Speaker 2>collegiate football player he start. He made that guy start

1090
01:09:30.520 --> 01:09:34.039
<v Speaker 2>this program called the Punk Squad, and they would take

1091
01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:38.119
<v Speaker 2>these kids that didn't listen, didn't follow rules, and this

1092
01:09:38.159 --> 01:09:41.039
<v Speaker 2>is when he decided to break his first rule of

1093
01:09:41.079 --> 01:09:44.319
<v Speaker 2>no violence, and if these kids acted out of order,

1094
01:09:44.439 --> 01:09:46.720
<v Speaker 2>you could just kick the shit out of them. I mean,

1095
01:09:47.399 --> 01:09:52.880
<v Speaker 2>there was one girl who said that she got caught

1096
01:09:53.239 --> 01:09:56.039
<v Speaker 2>lying about cheating on some homework or something, and they

1097
01:09:56.039 --> 01:09:58.680
<v Speaker 2>made her go stand in the middle of the gymnasium,

1098
01:09:59.000 --> 01:10:01.000
<v Speaker 2>told her to take her glass off, and they just

1099
01:10:01.039 --> 01:10:01.960
<v Speaker 2>decked her in the face.

1100
01:10:03.159 --> 01:10:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Took turns.

1101
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:07.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, i mean, I'm sure just one punch. I'm sure

1102
01:10:07.880 --> 01:10:11.520
<v Speaker 2>with this particular instance, it only took one punch.

1103
01:10:11.800 --> 01:10:16.399
<v Speaker 1>So his solution to unruly teenagers was just kicked the

1104
01:10:16.439 --> 01:10:17.199
<v Speaker 1>shit out of them.

1105
01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:21.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and he was quoted as saying, there's a difference

1106
01:10:21.279 --> 01:10:26.520
<v Speaker 2>between child abuse and corporal punishment. And so the Punk

1107
01:10:26.560 --> 01:10:28.960
<v Speaker 2>Squad kids, you know, they were kept in line by

1108
01:10:29.199 --> 01:10:32.319
<v Speaker 2>having the shit kicked out of them if they didn't listen.

1109
01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:36.760
<v Speaker 2>And they straight up started this like military program for

1110
01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:39.199
<v Speaker 2>kids who wouldn't listen, and that was called the Punk Squad,

1111
01:10:39.279 --> 01:10:45.640
<v Speaker 2>like I said, And these kids were kind of beaten

1112
01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:48.479
<v Speaker 2>into shape, and some of them.

1113
01:10:48.399 --> 01:10:50.800
<v Speaker 1>So it worked well, they didn't rebel.

1114
01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:54.600
<v Speaker 2>Some of them did not like it. And we'll step

1115
01:10:54.600 --> 01:10:57.680
<v Speaker 2>ahead to the next part of the story where they

1116
01:10:57.720 --> 01:11:04.479
<v Speaker 2>had this property next to you, a few ranches, and

1117
01:11:04.520 --> 01:11:07.960
<v Speaker 2>the kids would run away and there wasn't a lot

1118
01:11:08.000 --> 01:11:11.279
<v Speaker 2>of places to go. So there was this family I've

1119
01:11:11.319 --> 01:11:13.840
<v Speaker 2>got I want to say they were called the Gambaninis,

1120
01:11:14.760 --> 01:11:19.760
<v Speaker 2>and they had a ranch and they ended up helping

1121
01:11:19.800 --> 01:11:23.960
<v Speaker 2>a run away and so to nip that in the bud,

1122
01:11:24.439 --> 01:11:26.520
<v Speaker 2>Chuck and some of the other people told the kids

1123
01:11:26.680 --> 01:11:30.720
<v Speaker 2>that that ranch over there, if you even go onto

1124
01:11:30.720 --> 01:11:35.079
<v Speaker 2>their property, they'll shoot you. But it kind of spread

1125
01:11:35.079 --> 01:11:38.239
<v Speaker 2>within the circles of the kids that yeah, this is

1126
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:42.399
<v Speaker 2>a safe place to go. And one of the kids

1127
01:11:42.520 --> 01:11:44.680
<v Speaker 2>gave an interview one of the kids of the ranchers

1128
01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:48.119
<v Speaker 2>and said that they'd watch these kids just come and

1129
01:11:48.159 --> 01:11:51.800
<v Speaker 2>some of them had like been visibly abused, and they

1130
01:11:51.840 --> 01:11:56.079
<v Speaker 2>would call the cops, and then the cops would take

1131
01:11:56.079 --> 01:11:57.199
<v Speaker 2>them right back to senan On.

1132
01:11:57.960 --> 01:12:00.760
<v Speaker 1>What that's like, Jeffrey, don't type shit.

1133
01:12:01.119 --> 01:12:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, one of the or two of the debt pops.

1134
01:12:04.439 --> 01:12:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Take the kids back to the abusers.

1135
01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:11.640
<v Speaker 2>It was alleged that the sheriff of this area was in,

1136
01:12:11.840 --> 01:12:12.199
<v Speaker 2>you know.

1137
01:12:12.960 --> 01:12:14.199
<v Speaker 1>Just in and on group No.

1138
01:12:14.319 --> 01:12:17.119
<v Speaker 2>The two deputies were members and the sheriff was getting

1139
01:12:17.119 --> 01:12:17.640
<v Speaker 2>paid off.

1140
01:12:18.560 --> 01:12:20.159
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

1141
01:12:20.439 --> 01:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>And then in one instance, this girl escaped. It was

1142
01:12:23.720 --> 01:12:25.760
<v Speaker 2>the girl I told you about that they decked in

1143
01:12:25.800 --> 01:12:29.119
<v Speaker 2>the face, rade her take her glasses off. She escaped

1144
01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:33.319
<v Speaker 2>and her mom came and picked her up and took

1145
01:12:33.359 --> 01:12:36.399
<v Speaker 2>her right back to senning On, and she ended up

1146
01:12:36.560 --> 01:12:40.680
<v Speaker 2>eventually getting away. She her dad ended up finding out

1147
01:12:40.640 --> 01:12:42.520
<v Speaker 2>what was going on. She went and lived with him.

1148
01:12:42.560 --> 01:12:44.199
<v Speaker 2>So she was one of the lucky ones who was

1149
01:12:44.239 --> 01:12:49.600
<v Speaker 2>able to get out. And at one point Chuck was

1150
01:12:49.680 --> 01:12:53.439
<v Speaker 2>just kind of like, you know, he's business oriented, and

1151
01:12:53.479 --> 01:12:55.399
<v Speaker 2>he was like, why are we even fucking around with

1152
01:12:55.479 --> 01:13:00.119
<v Speaker 2>these kids, Like, obviously we're losing a lot of money.

1153
01:13:00.600 --> 01:13:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Each kid is like one hundred and two hundred grand

1154
01:13:02.920 --> 01:13:09.119
<v Speaker 2>a year, And he decided that they were gonna stop

1155
01:13:09.159 --> 01:13:16.680
<v Speaker 2>having their own kids within and so he uh. He

1156
01:13:16.800 --> 01:13:22.960
<v Speaker 2>made the men get vasectomies, and some of them were

1157
01:13:23.239 --> 01:13:26.600
<v Speaker 2>as young as eighteen, and they would have these doctors

1158
01:13:26.600 --> 01:13:28.760
<v Speaker 2>show up and they would have them all they were

1159
01:13:28.760 --> 01:13:31.239
<v Speaker 2>they were basically I heard them at one point referred

1160
01:13:31.279 --> 01:13:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to as vasectomy parties. What And so one of the

1161
01:13:35.960 --> 01:13:38.960
<v Speaker 2>main dudes who was like ride or.

1162
01:13:38.960 --> 01:13:42.359
<v Speaker 1>Dies it always come to like cutting the dicks and stuff.

1163
01:13:43.600 --> 01:13:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's another thing I failed to mention. So they

1164
01:13:48.159 --> 01:13:50.920
<v Speaker 2>if you broke a ruler, you got caught lying, or

1165
01:13:50.960 --> 01:13:54.239
<v Speaker 2>if you got caught using, they would shave your head

1166
01:13:55.199 --> 01:13:57.640
<v Speaker 2>and it was kind.

1167
01:13:57.399 --> 01:13:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Of not another humiliation.

1168
01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:02.800
<v Speaker 2>And if you were a woman and you were caught

1169
01:14:02.880 --> 01:14:04.399
<v Speaker 2>doing one of those things, you had to wear a

1170
01:14:04.399 --> 01:14:07.039
<v Speaker 2>baseball cap, and.

1171
01:14:07.760 --> 01:14:09.479
<v Speaker 1>That doesn't seem nearly as bad.

1172
01:14:10.520 --> 01:14:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, then they made Betty actually was kind of like,

1173
01:14:15.920 --> 01:14:20.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, first wave feminist, and she decided that this

1174
01:14:21.119 --> 01:14:25.159
<v Speaker 2>isn't equality. So they had this thing called the Wire

1175
01:14:25.560 --> 01:14:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and it was an FM radio feed that was wired

1176
01:14:28.640 --> 01:14:32.359
<v Speaker 2>directly into all the Synanon buildings and you could broadcast

1177
01:14:32.479 --> 01:14:36.119
<v Speaker 2>a video on it too, And she shaved her head

1178
01:14:36.560 --> 01:14:38.479
<v Speaker 2>and then a bunch of the other women started doing

1179
01:14:38.520 --> 01:14:42.000
<v Speaker 2>it too. And so when you're into like the seventies.

1180
01:14:42.680 --> 01:14:46.439
<v Speaker 2>They're all bald. Every member in there has.

1181
01:14:45.960 --> 01:14:47.399
<v Speaker 1>A shaved like Heaven's skate.

1182
01:14:47.720 --> 01:14:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Well, this is before Heaven's Gate.

1183
01:14:49.479 --> 01:14:52.600
<v Speaker 1>Well I'm just saying, look at the patterns, just the.

1184
01:14:52.840 --> 01:14:55.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, this is before Heaven's Gate.

1185
01:14:55.399 --> 01:14:58.439
<v Speaker 1>Gate also made the members cash straight themselves.

1186
01:14:58.960 --> 01:15:01.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but this was just a sect me, babe.

1187
01:15:01.680 --> 01:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>But why does it always go go to like the

1188
01:15:05.159 --> 01:15:11.680
<v Speaker 1>outer limits of like humiliation, cutting dicks, shaving heads, killing

1189
01:15:11.720 --> 01:15:13.880
<v Speaker 1>each other, sucking each other.

1190
01:15:14.359 --> 01:15:17.279
<v Speaker 2>You're gonna have to do whatever it takes to uh,

1191
01:15:17.359 --> 01:15:21.119
<v Speaker 2>getting rid of your kids, show your loyalty. And so

1192
01:15:24.159 --> 01:15:29.640
<v Speaker 2>you see all of these cults in pop culture. It's

1193
01:15:29.680 --> 01:15:33.239
<v Speaker 2>it's shaved heads that started with these guys.

1194
01:15:33.920 --> 01:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>But didn't the Mansons shave their heads?

1195
01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:43.840
<v Speaker 2>Uh maybe after the fact, not at first, but they did.

1196
01:15:44.359 --> 01:15:48.479
<v Speaker 2>They did like after, like after during the trial if

1197
01:15:48.479 --> 01:15:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I remember correctly, because he did right, So anyway, I

1198
01:15:53.920 --> 01:15:55.000
<v Speaker 2>don't remember where it was.

1199
01:15:55.039 --> 01:15:59.119
<v Speaker 1>Now you were saying they had vasectomy parties.

1200
01:15:59.600 --> 01:16:03.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so this is a darker element. And I

1201
01:16:03.279 --> 01:16:05.039
<v Speaker 2>had to kind of dig for this one because I

1202
01:16:05.039 --> 01:16:08.039
<v Speaker 2>looked through a lot of these stories and this didn't

1203
01:16:08.079 --> 01:16:11.479
<v Speaker 2>come up. But once there was, when he decided no

1204
01:16:11.600 --> 01:16:19.079
<v Speaker 2>more kids, there was five women who were pregnant, and

1205
01:16:19.199 --> 01:16:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Chuck decided that they should all get abortions.

1206
01:16:22.439 --> 01:16:23.239
<v Speaker 1>Oh pregnant.

1207
01:16:23.439 --> 01:16:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, one woman said fuck this and she ended up leaving.

1208
01:16:27.840 --> 01:16:29.680
<v Speaker 2>Another woman was eight months.

1209
01:16:29.479 --> 01:16:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Pregnant, Oh my god, stop it.

1210
01:16:32.159 --> 01:16:34.600
<v Speaker 2>And she was one of the four that had an abortion.

1211
01:16:35.319 --> 01:16:37.399
<v Speaker 1>That's not an abortion at that point.

1212
01:16:37.479 --> 01:16:39.479
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of people left over this. So there's,

1213
01:16:39.640 --> 01:16:41.880
<v Speaker 2>like I said, we'll hop back a little bit, probably

1214
01:16:41.880 --> 01:16:45.439
<v Speaker 2>go back and forth in time, but you know, the

1215
01:16:45.560 --> 01:16:49.159
<v Speaker 2>rules kind of always revolved around either what Chuck's doing

1216
01:16:49.199 --> 01:16:51.359
<v Speaker 2>in his own life or what he wants. So at

1217
01:16:51.359 --> 01:16:54.600
<v Speaker 2>one point, you know, it was like any recovery group,

1218
01:16:54.640 --> 01:16:57.640
<v Speaker 2>you could drink coffee and smoke cigarettes. Chuck decided he

1219
01:16:57.680 --> 01:17:00.000
<v Speaker 2>was a smoker that he was going to quit smoking,

1220
01:17:00.720 --> 01:17:03.479
<v Speaker 2>so he decided no more smoking. A lot of people

1221
01:17:03.560 --> 01:17:07.000
<v Speaker 2>left over that, they're like, fuck this. I like cigarettes

1222
01:17:07.039 --> 01:17:11.439
<v Speaker 2>way more than being in a cult. And at another

1223
01:17:11.520 --> 01:17:14.039
<v Speaker 2>point he had some health issues and he had a

1224
01:17:14.079 --> 01:17:16.760
<v Speaker 2>doctor tell him that he needed to cut grain and

1225
01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:19.880
<v Speaker 2>sugar out of his diet. So he made it across

1226
01:17:19.880 --> 01:17:21.880
<v Speaker 2>the board rule no sugar.

1227
01:17:22.039 --> 01:17:23.479
<v Speaker 1>So what's good for the goose?

1228
01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Basically, it's good for big Daddy. Yeah, And so oh

1229
01:17:29.880 --> 01:17:33.199
<v Speaker 2>with Yeah, so the vasectomy. Oh so this guy who

1230
01:17:33.319 --> 01:17:35.159
<v Speaker 2>was I don't remember his name off the top of

1231
01:17:35.159 --> 01:17:38.760
<v Speaker 2>my head, but he was a writer die with Bill

1232
01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:43.159
<v Speaker 2>up into the point with the vasectomies. He just saw

1233
01:17:43.199 --> 01:17:47.319
<v Speaker 2>it as like these some of these kids are as

1234
01:17:47.359 --> 01:17:49.520
<v Speaker 2>young or some of these men are as young as eighteen,

1235
01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:54.479
<v Speaker 2>and they don't have, you know, the faculty to decide

1236
01:17:54.800 --> 01:17:57.720
<v Speaker 2>this is what they want to do. And so he

1237
01:17:57.720 --> 01:18:00.640
<v Speaker 2>he kind of spoke out against it, and he was silenced.

1238
01:18:01.600 --> 01:18:05.720
<v Speaker 2>So he went to the sheriff, and the sheriff basically said,

1239
01:18:06.359 --> 01:18:10.000
<v Speaker 2>so you're telling me there's a bunch of drug addicts,

1240
01:18:10.239 --> 01:18:12.800
<v Speaker 2>all of them over eighteen, and they all want to

1241
01:18:12.800 --> 01:18:15.760
<v Speaker 2>give the sectomies, and you think I want to stop this.

1242
01:18:16.880 --> 01:18:19.520
<v Speaker 2>And then when the dude was sitting right there, he

1243
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:21.600
<v Speaker 2>called and told on him.

1244
01:18:22.640 --> 01:18:26.840
<v Speaker 1>And so really, yeah, so they had he had like

1245
01:18:26.920 --> 01:18:29.319
<v Speaker 1>people on the inside all over the damn place.

1246
01:18:29.479 --> 01:18:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, the two of the deputies remembers, and the sheriff

1247
01:18:32.079 --> 01:18:32.920
<v Speaker 2>was on the payroll.

1248
01:18:33.680 --> 01:18:37.079
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, so how does this like come to a

1249
01:18:37.880 --> 01:18:38.680
<v Speaker 1>boiling pole?

1250
01:18:38.680 --> 01:18:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Oh, we'll get there. So when all this was going down,

1251
01:18:45.359 --> 01:18:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Betty was diagnosed with cancer and she ended up slowly dying,

1252
01:18:52.880 --> 01:18:57.279
<v Speaker 2>and he was pretty grief stricken. Everybody said, you know

1253
01:18:57.399 --> 01:19:02.119
<v Speaker 2>that he kind of changed permanently after that, but that

1254
01:19:02.199 --> 01:19:05.319
<v Speaker 2>didn't stop him. He ended up not very long after

1255
01:19:05.399 --> 01:19:11.079
<v Speaker 2>she died, he said, I'm taking applications, probably over the wire,

1256
01:19:11.800 --> 01:19:16.119
<v Speaker 2>I'm taking applications for a new wife. Oh boy, and

1257
01:19:16.239 --> 01:19:21.079
<v Speaker 2>six women. I don't know if they've filled out applications,

1258
01:19:21.079 --> 01:19:27.199
<v Speaker 2>but six women raised their hands proverbally, and he ended

1259
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:31.359
<v Speaker 2>up picking someone half his age. She's one of the demonstrators.

1260
01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:35.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh and she was I think she was thirty. Yeah,

1261
01:19:35.920 --> 01:19:37.800
<v Speaker 2>he probably just which one's the hottest.

1262
01:19:37.920 --> 01:19:38.159
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1263
01:19:38.199 --> 01:19:41.760
<v Speaker 2>He picked this thirty one year old demonstrator slash what

1264
01:19:41.760 --> 01:19:46.000
<v Speaker 2>we would call a teacher, and they got married, and

1265
01:19:46.039 --> 01:19:48.520
<v Speaker 2>he was so happy with this. He decided, you know,

1266
01:19:50.520 --> 01:19:55.399
<v Speaker 2>what is marriage really? It's kind of confining, Like why

1267
01:19:55.439 --> 01:19:58.479
<v Speaker 2>don't we all do this? And so he decided that

1268
01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:01.399
<v Speaker 2>if you were married, you had to take place in

1269
01:20:01.479 --> 01:20:08.159
<v Speaker 2>this ceremony and you and your spouse would say all

1270
01:20:08.199 --> 01:20:11.039
<v Speaker 2>the things you loved about each other and then part ways.

1271
01:20:11.479 --> 01:20:13.479
<v Speaker 2>And a lot of the married couples were like what,

1272
01:20:14.640 --> 01:20:18.439
<v Speaker 2>and he said, well, it's it's more symbolic. This is

1273
01:20:18.520 --> 01:20:22.039
<v Speaker 2>just a ritual. This is an exercise, and so they

1274
01:20:22.039 --> 01:20:24.479
<v Speaker 2>all did it. And then right after they did it,

1275
01:20:24.520 --> 01:20:28.960
<v Speaker 2>he said, actually, this is real. And there were a

1276
01:20:29.000 --> 01:20:31.840
<v Speaker 2>few couples that said fuck this and left.

1277
01:20:31.960 --> 01:20:34.239
<v Speaker 1>But a lot of them wanted them to split up.

1278
01:20:34.439 --> 01:20:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and a lot of them stayed. He didn't only

1279
01:20:36.560 --> 01:20:39.239
<v Speaker 2>want them to split up, he wanted them all to

1280
01:20:39.720 --> 01:20:40.920
<v Speaker 2>remarry somebody else.

1281
01:20:41.079 --> 01:20:41.760
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

1282
01:20:41.960 --> 01:20:43.840
<v Speaker 2>And so there was a lot of people that did this,

1283
01:20:44.199 --> 01:20:46.680
<v Speaker 2>and a lot of people, from what I can tell,

1284
01:20:46.800 --> 01:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>remained in love. Some of them ended up reconciling and

1285
01:20:49.960 --> 01:20:52.439
<v Speaker 2>getting back together after this all kind of went down.

1286
01:20:53.520 --> 01:20:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Can you imagine? I mean, what do you think would

1287
01:20:58.239 --> 01:21:03.239
<v Speaker 1>have been the straw that broke the cam for you? Like,

1288
01:21:03.319 --> 01:21:05.840
<v Speaker 1>out of the series of events because you said, oh,

1289
01:21:05.920 --> 01:21:09.199
<v Speaker 1>some said fucking and last some said fucking left. Like

1290
01:21:09.279 --> 01:21:12.079
<v Speaker 1>where would you where do you? Where do you think

1291
01:21:12.119 --> 01:21:13.119
<v Speaker 1>you draw the line at?

1292
01:21:13.279 --> 01:21:15.039
<v Speaker 2>I probably would have set in on the first game

1293
01:21:15.079 --> 01:21:16.960
<v Speaker 2>and then went and did Heroin that night and never

1294
01:21:17.000 --> 01:21:19.279
<v Speaker 2>came back. That's just me.

1295
01:21:20.199 --> 01:21:23.279
<v Speaker 1>It definitely would have been where they took away my SIGs,

1296
01:21:24.880 --> 01:21:26.119
<v Speaker 1>because if you were like.

1297
01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:27.680
<v Speaker 2>So, you would have stayed through a lot of that

1298
01:21:27.720 --> 01:21:28.279
<v Speaker 2>other stuff.

1299
01:21:28.319 --> 01:21:30.560
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you were a legit Heroin.

1300
01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:32.880
<v Speaker 2>At what about when you give birth to your baby

1301
01:21:32.880 --> 01:21:35.800
<v Speaker 2>and they take it to the the what did they

1302
01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:39.159
<v Speaker 2>call it. It wasn't a nursery, so you can't even

1303
01:21:39.159 --> 01:21:41.239
<v Speaker 2>be that the hatchery is what they called it.

1304
01:21:41.359 --> 01:21:42.760
<v Speaker 1>You can't even be with your baby.

1305
01:21:43.000 --> 01:21:48.520
<v Speaker 2>Well that's another detail I omitted. But you would take

1306
01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:51.199
<v Speaker 2>turns breastfeeding each other's babies.

1307
01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:52.640
<v Speaker 1>So you couldn't just have your baby.

1308
01:21:52.720 --> 01:21:55.399
<v Speaker 2>No, yeah, no, fuck that was against the rules.

1309
01:21:55.600 --> 01:21:58.039
<v Speaker 1>But in the beginning days, if he was really just

1310
01:21:58.119 --> 01:22:00.800
<v Speaker 1>trying to help heroin addicts, like have a place to

1311
01:22:00.840 --> 01:22:04.560
<v Speaker 1>stay and maybe some food and get off drugs, I mean,

1312
01:22:05.439 --> 01:22:07.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I could get behind something like that,

1313
01:22:07.680 --> 01:22:13.760
<v Speaker 1>but it just has spiraled into like a complete mayhem. Yeah,

1314
01:22:13.800 --> 01:22:17.319
<v Speaker 1>how does I want to help people get off drugs

1315
01:22:17.319 --> 01:22:25.159
<v Speaker 1>and alcohol? Turn into abortions, bisectomies, You can't smoke, You

1316
01:22:25.199 --> 01:22:27.319
<v Speaker 1>gotta give your kids up. You put your babies in

1317
01:22:27.359 --> 01:22:30.640
<v Speaker 1>a hatchery, or let us beat the crap out of them,

1318
01:22:30.920 --> 01:22:33.199
<v Speaker 1>Let me have sex with whoever I want. Oh, by

1319
01:22:33.239 --> 01:22:35.680
<v Speaker 1>the way, get rid of your husband and wife.

1320
01:22:35.880 --> 01:22:38.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh and in the early days before any of this,

1321
01:22:38.479 --> 01:22:42.439
<v Speaker 2>like changing partner stuff went down, when we were recording

1322
01:22:42.560 --> 01:22:46.680
<v Speaker 2>somebody you had to like fill out paperwork and go

1323
01:22:46.800 --> 01:22:50.279
<v Speaker 2>to this specific building to have sex. So it was

1324
01:22:50.319 --> 01:22:54.800
<v Speaker 2>like conjugal life Fay, because he's controlling everything.

1325
01:22:54.880 --> 01:22:58.159
<v Speaker 1>This is just when you give it, you know, you

1326
01:22:58.159 --> 01:23:00.920
<v Speaker 1>give them an inch and they take them My oh

1327
01:23:01.039 --> 01:23:02.760
<v Speaker 1>just wait this this shit.

1328
01:23:03.079 --> 01:23:07.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we're getting close. Say that he dies, doesn't everybody?

1329
01:23:07.680 --> 01:23:09.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this guy when this thing started, he was

1330
01:23:09.960 --> 01:23:13.039
<v Speaker 2>like I think he was like in his fifties when

1331
01:23:13.079 --> 01:23:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Sinnanan started.

1332
01:23:14.600 --> 01:23:17.239
<v Speaker 1>So he's just an old cragley fu with the thirty

1333
01:23:17.279 --> 01:23:18.039
<v Speaker 1>year old wife.

1334
01:23:18.079 --> 01:23:21.279
<v Speaker 2>Now you're gonna have to just be patient and wait

1335
01:23:21.399 --> 01:23:25.079
<v Speaker 2>to the end, like everybody else. Well, I want to know, Well,

1336
01:23:25.159 --> 01:23:31.199
<v Speaker 2>we'll get there. So a lot of people when they

1337
01:23:31.399 --> 01:23:35.239
<v Speaker 2>I think that the changing partners thing really drove some

1338
01:23:35.399 --> 01:23:38.479
<v Speaker 2>of the people that he considered like real close to

1339
01:23:38.560 --> 01:23:43.279
<v Speaker 2>him away. And so that's when some shit went down

1340
01:23:43.359 --> 01:23:49.279
<v Speaker 2>because like one of the couples left and they found

1341
01:23:49.359 --> 01:23:52.399
<v Speaker 2>out that or they didn't find out they still had

1342
01:23:52.479 --> 01:23:56.239
<v Speaker 2>kids in there. Like so like one couple that ended

1343
01:23:56.279 --> 01:24:00.600
<v Speaker 2>up leaving his old wife from when they first got

1344
01:24:00.640 --> 01:24:04.720
<v Speaker 2>there had the kids and she wanted to stay, and

1345
01:24:04.840 --> 01:24:08.600
<v Speaker 2>so he ended up there was like a custody battle.

1346
01:24:08.680 --> 01:24:12.399
<v Speaker 2>And at this point I think it was Time Life

1347
01:24:12.439 --> 01:24:17.439
<v Speaker 2>magazine wrote how Synanon. It was an article and I'm paraphrasing,

1348
01:24:17.479 --> 01:24:20.640
<v Speaker 2>but it was entitled something like how Synanon went from

1349
01:24:20.720 --> 01:24:24.439
<v Speaker 2>a helpful recovery group to a kooky colt and he

1350
01:24:24.520 --> 01:24:30.560
<v Speaker 2>got pissed and he sued them for slander. And one

1351
01:24:30.600 --> 01:24:33.399
<v Speaker 2>of the things about Chuck was he hated lawyers, but

1352
01:24:33.479 --> 01:24:36.560
<v Speaker 2>there were lawyers in his group that he used when

1353
01:24:36.560 --> 01:24:41.319
<v Speaker 2>he needed them. And he ended up getting settlements from

1354
01:24:41.880 --> 01:24:44.840
<v Speaker 2>Time Life magazine, and he ended up getting a settlement

1355
01:24:44.880 --> 01:24:47.920
<v Speaker 2>from I think ABC, And at the time these were

1356
01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:50.640
<v Speaker 2>like record numbers, I think two point six million from

1357
01:24:50.680 --> 01:24:54.680
<v Speaker 2>Time Life. They ended up they settled out a court.

1358
01:24:54.760 --> 01:24:57.439
<v Speaker 2>They didn't want to like have a trial, and oh

1359
01:24:57.560 --> 01:24:59.880
<v Speaker 2>my god, they just threw him a big chunk of

1360
01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:08.199
<v Speaker 2>And we're kind of hopping around chronologically here, but there

1361
01:25:08.279 --> 01:25:13.479
<v Speaker 2>is a very important thing that happens. So when people

1362
01:25:13.560 --> 01:25:16.960
<v Speaker 2>start like wherever these guys went, they had run ends

1363
01:25:17.000 --> 01:25:25.600
<v Speaker 2>with like the neighbors, like the Ranchers and like that. God,

1364
01:25:25.800 --> 01:25:28.600
<v Speaker 2>I forgot that weird the weird name of that family?

1365
01:25:29.079 --> 01:25:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Did you say it?

1366
01:25:30.520 --> 01:25:36.520
<v Speaker 2>Like the Gambini. I just remember the Gambinos eating paninis

1367
01:25:37.000 --> 01:25:40.840
<v Speaker 2>to remember that name. But one time after they had

1368
01:25:40.880 --> 01:25:44.800
<v Speaker 2>like helped some kids get away, they kind of started

1369
01:25:44.840 --> 01:25:47.760
<v Speaker 2>like an underground railroad to get kids out of there.

1370
01:25:47.960 --> 01:25:51.119
<v Speaker 2>And imagine, so one of the things they did is

1371
01:25:51.159 --> 01:25:55.720
<v Speaker 2>they used their their punk squad like the older boys,

1372
01:25:56.079 --> 01:25:59.920
<v Speaker 2>and they ended up going to the foothills of the

1373
01:26:00.119 --> 01:26:02.399
<v Speaker 2>Sisku Mountains, which isn't far from us. It was this

1374
01:26:02.520 --> 01:26:05.960
<v Speaker 2>place called Badger and that was where they trained and

1375
01:26:06.000 --> 01:26:10.720
<v Speaker 2>they started calling this group the Imperial Marines. And so

1376
01:26:10.960 --> 01:26:14.560
<v Speaker 2>they always had their own police force on the premises,

1377
01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:17.640
<v Speaker 2>like you could volunteer to be a police officer instead

1378
01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:20.439
<v Speaker 2>of like you know, doing dishes or whatever.

1379
01:26:21.000 --> 01:26:23.640
<v Speaker 1>Probably would rather be on the policequog.

1380
01:26:24.680 --> 01:26:26.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there were some older stories about how.

1381
01:26:26.720 --> 01:26:30.680
<v Speaker 1>They would work in the cafeteria.

1382
01:26:29.720 --> 01:26:32.920
<v Speaker 2>They would police themselves. But Chuck kind of found out that,

1383
01:26:33.439 --> 01:26:37.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, these are addicts. They they lie, and so

1384
01:26:38.000 --> 01:26:40.079
<v Speaker 2>he ended up starting his own police force. That was

1385
01:26:40.159 --> 01:26:43.079
<v Speaker 2>kind of earlier on. But so he just decided to

1386
01:26:43.159 --> 01:26:48.600
<v Speaker 2>have his own marine corps called the Imperial Marines. And they,

1387
01:26:48.680 --> 01:26:52.079
<v Speaker 2>like I said, they trained in Badger, California, in the

1388
01:26:52.119 --> 01:26:54.680
<v Speaker 2>foothills of the Sierra Mountains. They would like make them

1389
01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:56.560
<v Speaker 2>go out and stay the night in the woods, and

1390
01:26:57.079 --> 01:26:59.319
<v Speaker 2>there was just so many rattlesnakes. They learned how to

1391
01:26:59.399 --> 01:27:02.119
<v Speaker 2>hunt rattles snakes and eat them, and that this will

1392
01:27:02.159 --> 01:27:07.960
<v Speaker 2>come back into the story. So what I was starting

1393
01:27:07.960 --> 01:27:11.760
<v Speaker 2>to say is that family, the Gambinini's, one time they

1394
01:27:11.800 --> 01:27:15.640
<v Speaker 2>got home and they were met in their driveway and

1395
01:27:15.680 --> 01:27:19.079
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of shaved head, you know, militant looking guys

1396
01:27:19.159 --> 01:27:23.479
<v Speaker 2>got out and one of the kids, I think there

1397
01:27:23.520 --> 01:27:25.199
<v Speaker 2>was a boy and two girls in the car. One

1398
01:27:25.239 --> 01:27:28.279
<v Speaker 2>of the kids, the boy, he got out and ran away,

1399
01:27:29.159 --> 01:27:32.119
<v Speaker 2>and he from a distant watched them like just punching

1400
01:27:32.159 --> 01:27:34.119
<v Speaker 2>his dad in the face trying to pull him out

1401
01:27:34.119 --> 01:27:36.439
<v Speaker 2>of the car. I mean, they just beat the shit

1402
01:27:36.479 --> 01:27:40.880
<v Speaker 2>out of this guy. But so as this story progresses,

1403
01:27:41.600 --> 01:27:45.039
<v Speaker 2>he kind of decides to arm up even more. He's

1404
01:27:45.079 --> 01:27:49.680
<v Speaker 2>starting to get paranoid from you know, external conflicts. Up

1405
01:27:49.800 --> 01:27:53.000
<v Speaker 2>until this point, it all been kind of internal, but

1406
01:27:53.119 --> 01:27:56.880
<v Speaker 2>with like the media talking shit about him, and he

1407
01:27:57.000 --> 01:27:59.239
<v Speaker 2>kind of started to think that people are out to

1408
01:27:59.279 --> 01:28:01.600
<v Speaker 2>get us. And at this point he had kind of

1409
01:28:01.640 --> 01:28:03.880
<v Speaker 2>gone away from like this is a place to help

1410
01:28:03.960 --> 01:28:06.279
<v Speaker 2>drug addicts to like this is a new way to live,

1411
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:08.560
<v Speaker 2>this is going to save the world. And he looked

1412
01:28:08.560 --> 01:28:11.640
<v Speaker 2>at it as like an US versus them mentality, and

1413
01:28:11.680 --> 01:28:14.720
<v Speaker 2>that trickled down into the members too. But they ended

1414
01:28:14.760 --> 01:28:19.319
<v Speaker 2>up making a purchase of like three hundred thousand dollars

1415
01:28:19.960 --> 01:28:24.439
<v Speaker 2>of weapons, and that kind of put him on a list.

1416
01:28:25.000 --> 01:28:29.960
<v Speaker 2>And they were tax exempt because they called themselves a

1417
01:28:30.000 --> 01:28:33.319
<v Speaker 2>treatment center. Like you could be a kid in California

1418
01:28:33.800 --> 01:28:36.119
<v Speaker 2>got caught with marijuana in your pocket and the judge

1419
01:28:36.119 --> 01:28:39.279
<v Speaker 2>would say, you have to go to Synanon and they

1420
01:28:39.279 --> 01:28:42.039
<v Speaker 2>were forced to take them because they wanted to keep

1421
01:28:42.079 --> 01:28:45.439
<v Speaker 2>their tax exempt status. At one point, he ended up

1422
01:28:45.439 --> 01:28:48.800
<v Speaker 2>trying to get religious exemption because he.

1423
01:28:48.840 --> 01:28:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Said, well, that's how colds go.

1424
01:28:51.279 --> 01:28:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Our members don't leave. You never leave a religion. This

1425
01:28:55.960 --> 01:28:59.119
<v Speaker 2>isn't a treatment facility. And so he started kind of

1426
01:28:59.520 --> 01:29:02.279
<v Speaker 2>drawing attention that he didn't even know about. The Iras

1427
01:29:02.279 --> 01:29:04.239
<v Speaker 2>had already been looking into him, but then the FED

1428
01:29:04.319 --> 01:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>started looking into him. And how he found out was

1429
01:29:08.640 --> 01:29:12.119
<v Speaker 2>Jimmy Carter was president and he decided to go to

1430
01:29:12.199 --> 01:29:14.600
<v Speaker 2>d C with a couple of his other guys and

1431
01:29:14.640 --> 01:29:17.520
<v Speaker 2>they got there and he tried to get in like

1432
01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>on the you know, the floor of the White House,

1433
01:29:20.960 --> 01:29:23.319
<v Speaker 2>and he wanted to be in with the drugs are,

1434
01:29:24.000 --> 01:29:29.840
<v Speaker 2>and they kind of laughed him out. And this is what.

1435
01:29:30.159 --> 01:29:32.279
<v Speaker 2>When he was in DC, he found out that he

1436
01:29:32.399 --> 01:29:36.600
<v Speaker 2>was being investigated because they made that huge watch weapon purchase,

1437
01:29:37.039 --> 01:29:40.600
<v Speaker 2>and in hindsight, he thought that probably wasn't a good

1438
01:29:40.600 --> 01:29:43.239
<v Speaker 2>idea and he should have spread out the purchases of

1439
01:29:43.279 --> 01:29:47.079
<v Speaker 2>the weapons. But then he said, but we weren't doing

1440
01:29:47.079 --> 01:29:52.199
<v Speaker 2>anything wrong. So I mean, he's always contradicting himself like that.

1441
01:29:52.359 --> 01:29:55.800
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, he found out that there was an investigation

1442
01:29:56.239 --> 01:29:59.399
<v Speaker 2>when he was in d C. And he and his

1443
01:29:59.439 --> 01:30:02.920
<v Speaker 2>wife and like two or three other guys fled to

1444
01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:06.239
<v Speaker 2>Italy for a while. And when he was in Italy

1445
01:30:07.399 --> 01:30:11.800
<v Speaker 2>he started drinking again and the guys that were with

1446
01:30:11.880 --> 01:30:15.600
<v Speaker 2>him were like, this is kind of weird. So now

1447
01:30:16.640 --> 01:30:18.920
<v Speaker 2>the first original he just gets to do whatever he

1448
01:30:18.960 --> 01:30:23.159
<v Speaker 2>wanted the first two rules. First the violence thing and

1449
01:30:23.199 --> 01:30:26.520
<v Speaker 2>then oh and that was another thing that happened. I

1450
01:30:26.560 --> 01:30:29.800
<v Speaker 2>think this was after Betty died. They were doing a

1451
01:30:29.840 --> 01:30:34.079
<v Speaker 2>game session and a woman was talking back to him

1452
01:30:34.159 --> 01:30:36.960
<v Speaker 2>just within the like the confines of the game. But

1453
01:30:37.279 --> 01:30:40.279
<v Speaker 2>he did not like that, as we established earlier, and

1454
01:30:40.359 --> 01:30:42.840
<v Speaker 2>he got up, walked over to her and dumped a

1455
01:30:42.880 --> 01:30:45.560
<v Speaker 2>soda on her head. And so a lot of people

1456
01:30:45.640 --> 01:30:48.439
<v Speaker 2>were like, this is just kind of getting out of control.

1457
01:30:48.640 --> 01:30:50.720
<v Speaker 2>You know, some people would call that. I mean, if

1458
01:30:50.760 --> 01:30:53.279
<v Speaker 2>you did that in public, you could get assault charges.

1459
01:30:54.000 --> 01:30:56.159
<v Speaker 2>And so a lot of people were turned off by that.

1460
01:30:57.079 --> 01:30:59.640
<v Speaker 2>And then when he went to Italy, the word got

1461
01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:03.399
<v Speaker 2>back that he had started drinking again, and when he

1462
01:31:03.479 --> 01:31:08.359
<v Speaker 2>came home, he was just full. Like one guy, I

1463
01:31:08.399 --> 01:31:12.640
<v Speaker 2>think it was Buddy, the ex college football player, he

1464
01:31:13.079 --> 01:31:15.880
<v Speaker 2>said when he heard he was drinking again, He's like, well,

1465
01:31:16.079 --> 01:31:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Chuck does everything he does hard. This isn't good, he said,

1466
01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:21.640
<v Speaker 2>like this is the end of sen and on. And

1467
01:31:21.720 --> 01:31:24.000
<v Speaker 2>when he got back, they started throwing the parties like

1468
01:31:24.039 --> 01:31:26.199
<v Speaker 2>they used to where people would dance, but now he

1469
01:31:26.279 --> 01:31:29.479
<v Speaker 2>was like encouraging everybody to drink. And a lot of

1470
01:31:29.479 --> 01:31:32.920
<v Speaker 2>people left over that. And so this thing's kind of

1471
01:31:32.920 --> 01:31:37.319
<v Speaker 2>starting to peter out, and there was some like I

1472
01:31:37.359 --> 01:31:40.119
<v Speaker 2>said earlier, there was starting to be some custody issues,

1473
01:31:40.560 --> 01:31:47.319
<v Speaker 2>and they ended up sending some of the Imperial Marines

1474
01:31:47.680 --> 01:31:49.760
<v Speaker 2>to one of the guy's house. And this guy was

1475
01:31:49.840 --> 01:31:55.279
<v Speaker 2>really good friends with Chuck up until the change partners thing,

1476
01:31:55.279 --> 01:31:58.880
<v Speaker 2>and he ended up leaving over that, and when he

1477
01:31:59.000 --> 01:32:03.159
<v Speaker 2>was suing for custody of his children. He came home

1478
01:32:03.199 --> 01:32:08.039
<v Speaker 2>one day with his wife and three dudes were waiting

1479
01:32:08.079 --> 01:32:11.239
<v Speaker 2>for him and they beat him almost to death. He

1480
01:32:11.319 --> 01:32:12.600
<v Speaker 2>was in coma for like a week.

1481
01:32:12.840 --> 01:32:13.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god.

1482
01:32:14.279 --> 01:32:16.279
<v Speaker 2>And one of the little kids was standing in the

1483
01:32:16.319 --> 01:32:19.640
<v Speaker 2>doorway and saw the whole thing happen and.

1484
01:32:19.880 --> 01:32:20.920
<v Speaker 1>This is horrible.

1485
01:32:22.039 --> 01:32:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Well, most cult stories aren't uplifting, and this one.

1486
01:32:28.319 --> 01:32:31.000
<v Speaker 1>I'd rather be part of this solar temple.

1487
01:32:31.359 --> 01:32:38.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, she'd rather be helped die than this. So there

1488
01:32:38.760 --> 01:32:44.960
<v Speaker 2>was a lawyer and his name was Paul Morantz, and

1489
01:32:45.039 --> 01:32:47.840
<v Speaker 2>he kind of took it upon himself to like shut

1490
01:32:47.840 --> 01:32:51.359
<v Speaker 2>this shit down, and he was helping. I think he

1491
01:32:51.479 --> 01:32:55.880
<v Speaker 2>ended up winning a case where one of the members

1492
01:32:56.439 --> 01:33:01.800
<v Speaker 2>was accusing Sinnanan of brainwashing and he won that. And

1493
01:33:01.840 --> 01:33:04.239
<v Speaker 2>then he was starting to like look at the custody

1494
01:33:04.319 --> 01:33:10.079
<v Speaker 2>stuff and he saw that, you know, the one guy

1495
01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:12.399
<v Speaker 2>got the shit kicked out of him in his driveway

1496
01:33:12.439 --> 01:33:16.159
<v Speaker 2>almost to death, and he was kind of wondering, like, huh,

1497
01:33:16.439 --> 01:33:18.520
<v Speaker 2>I wonder you know, and he was kind of starting

1498
01:33:18.560 --> 01:33:22.720
<v Speaker 2>to think he might be in danger. One day, he

1499
01:33:22.800 --> 01:33:25.479
<v Speaker 2>got home from work and he had like one of

1500
01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:29.560
<v Speaker 2>those mailboxes where there's a slot on the outside and

1501
01:33:29.600 --> 01:33:31.640
<v Speaker 2>you have to reach into a box from the inside

1502
01:33:31.680 --> 01:33:34.680
<v Speaker 2>next to the door. And he was checking his mail

1503
01:33:35.119 --> 01:33:38.119
<v Speaker 2>and he saw a peculiar shape and he thought, what

1504
01:33:38.239 --> 01:33:41.800
<v Speaker 2>is that. It's like a package, maybe it's a scarf

1505
01:33:41.880 --> 01:33:45.760
<v Speaker 2>or something. And he reaches in there and that that

1506
01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:51.920
<v Speaker 2>strain shaped package lunges forward and bites him. And a snake,

1507
01:33:52.199 --> 01:33:55.560
<v Speaker 2>a rattlesnake that had its tail cut off so it

1508
01:33:55.560 --> 01:33:59.840
<v Speaker 2>couldn't rattle, and it bit him. It bit him. He

1509
01:34:00.159 --> 01:34:04.199
<v Speaker 2>ran outside and he chased a neighbor woman down and

1510
01:34:04.239 --> 01:34:07.079
<v Speaker 2>he said, I've been bit by a rattlesnake. Called the ambulance.

1511
01:34:07.239 --> 01:34:09.920
<v Speaker 2>It's Sinninon. I mean he knew right away, of course.

1512
01:34:10.479 --> 01:34:12.600
<v Speaker 2>And you know, like I said earlier, the Marines they

1513
01:34:12.600 --> 01:34:15.439
<v Speaker 2>were always around rattlesnakes and they knew how to kill them.

1514
01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:19.119
<v Speaker 2>So they had caught one cut its tail off, and

1515
01:34:19.520 --> 01:34:22.760
<v Speaker 2>eventually two guys ended up going down for this. One

1516
01:34:22.800 --> 01:34:24.920
<v Speaker 2>of them was an ex heroin addict from New York

1517
01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:26.840
<v Speaker 2>who had been there kind of in the early days,

1518
01:34:26.840 --> 01:34:27.600
<v Speaker 2>and the other one.

1519
01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:30.239
<v Speaker 1>Put a rattlesnake in this man's mailbox.

1520
01:34:30.359 --> 01:34:37.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and right after this happened, guess what goes down

1521
01:34:39.079 --> 01:34:43.640
<v Speaker 2>in South America. I don't fucking know Jonestown.

1522
01:34:43.960 --> 01:34:46.680
<v Speaker 1>Oh, for fox sake, see how they're all related to.

1523
01:34:46.800 --> 01:34:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Kind of get this. So one of the guys was

1524
01:34:49.920 --> 01:34:54.359
<v Speaker 2>watching the news and he's like, Jim Jones, look at

1525
01:34:54.359 --> 01:34:57.439
<v Speaker 2>all those Adidas. So one of their businesses had put

1526
01:34:57.479 --> 01:35:00.159
<v Speaker 2>together a bunch of care packages with the d it

1527
01:35:00.239 --> 01:35:01.279
<v Speaker 2>is in.

1528
01:35:01.119 --> 01:35:06.239
<v Speaker 1>There, the synanos, and they sent care packages to Jonestown. Yes,

1529
01:35:06.800 --> 01:35:10.199
<v Speaker 1>stop it right now. Whah.

1530
01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:14.359
<v Speaker 2>And so Paul Morants, the lawyer, he was like, all right,

1531
01:35:15.520 --> 01:35:17.800
<v Speaker 2>I've got it. I can do this now. And he

1532
01:35:17.920 --> 01:35:24.000
<v Speaker 2>like went hard and he got the law enforcement involved,

1533
01:35:24.079 --> 01:35:26.960
<v Speaker 2>and they went and raided the compound, and.

1534
01:35:28.600 --> 01:35:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Uh did they use the ATF?

1535
01:35:31.199 --> 01:35:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Chuck wasn't there. No ATF. Maybe, I mean they were

1536
01:35:37.079 --> 01:35:40.239
<v Speaker 2>stockpiling guns. But they didn't shoot anybody, they didn't shoot

1537
01:35:40.239 --> 01:35:43.319
<v Speaker 2>any dogs. They just went looking for Chuck and he

1538
01:35:43.399 --> 01:35:48.760
<v Speaker 2>wasn't there. He was in Lake Havasu and they ended

1539
01:35:48.840 --> 01:35:52.960
<v Speaker 2>up finding him there and he was just fucking hammered.

1540
01:35:53.199 --> 01:35:55.279
<v Speaker 2>When they found him. They said he could barely function.

1541
01:35:55.359 --> 01:35:58.640
<v Speaker 2>And they said that at that point it was as

1542
01:35:58.680 --> 01:36:02.279
<v Speaker 2>though he had suffered some kind of like severe alcoholic

1543
01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:08.000
<v Speaker 2>brain damage or he had had a stroke and his memory,

1544
01:36:08.159 --> 01:36:11.319
<v Speaker 2>the part of his brain that was in charge of

1545
01:36:11.359 --> 01:36:18.880
<v Speaker 2>memory and emotions was gone, and so they didn't imprison him, they.

1546
01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:21.079
<v Speaker 1>Said, so he gets off scott free.

1547
01:36:21.119 --> 01:36:23.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, the only thing they did was they said he

1548
01:36:23.239 --> 01:36:26.600
<v Speaker 2>had to officially step down as the leader of Synanon. Now,

1549
01:36:26.920 --> 01:36:29.439
<v Speaker 2>this guy I didn't mention when he had started Synanon,

1550
01:36:29.479 --> 01:36:31.000
<v Speaker 2>and he was just kind of I told you, he

1551
01:36:31.039 --> 01:36:34.640
<v Speaker 2>was just kind of a low life drunk in Santa Monica.

1552
01:36:35.159 --> 01:36:37.760
<v Speaker 2>He'd already had two marriages and he had two kids,

1553
01:36:37.920 --> 01:36:40.319
<v Speaker 2>and two of the kids ended up in their later

1554
01:36:40.359 --> 01:36:43.760
<v Speaker 2>life joining Synanon. One of them was Chuck Junior and

1555
01:36:43.800 --> 01:36:45.640
<v Speaker 2>the other I think the daughter's name, but god, I

1556
01:36:45.680 --> 01:36:47.560
<v Speaker 2>want to say it was JD is what they called her.

1557
01:36:47.560 --> 01:36:51.439
<v Speaker 2>But she ended up assuming the role of leader. But

1558
01:36:51.560 --> 01:36:55.319
<v Speaker 2>he was there and he was just fucking chastising everything

1559
01:36:55.399 --> 01:36:57.640
<v Speaker 2>they did. And so he was still kind of leading

1560
01:36:57.680 --> 01:37:02.039
<v Speaker 2>this place. But it wasn't in Winchell anymore. Only the

1561
01:37:02.079 --> 01:37:07.640
<v Speaker 2>diehard members remained, and he ended up I don't know

1562
01:37:07.680 --> 01:37:14.000
<v Speaker 2>when he died, but the official disbandment of Synanon was

1563
01:37:14.000 --> 01:37:17.239
<v Speaker 2>said to have taken place in nineteen ninety one. But

1564
01:37:17.520 --> 01:37:21.039
<v Speaker 2>the troubled teen industry, you know about that. It's the

1565
01:37:21.159 --> 01:37:25.680
<v Speaker 2>thing that has all these like boarding schools, and se

1566
01:37:25.720 --> 01:37:31.640
<v Speaker 2>DO is one of them boarding schools and labor camps

1567
01:37:31.800 --> 01:37:36.359
<v Speaker 2>and wilderness programs. Paris Hilton did a documentary because she

1568
01:37:36.439 --> 01:37:38.920
<v Speaker 2>was sent to one in Utah when she was young

1569
01:37:39.159 --> 01:37:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and she wanted to expose it. Like god, I want

1570
01:37:42.600 --> 01:37:44.760
<v Speaker 2>to say that was like five six years ago.

1571
01:37:44.960 --> 01:37:46.760
<v Speaker 1>It's part of the Synanon group.

1572
01:37:47.520 --> 01:37:52.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, the troubled teen industry. They branched off, and see

1573
01:37:52.359 --> 01:37:55.960
<v Speaker 2>DO was one of the bigger ones, or I think

1574
01:37:56.039 --> 01:37:59.960
<v Speaker 2>it's still going and that was founded by a next

1575
01:38:00.039 --> 01:38:03.800
<v Speaker 2>Synnon member, and so they use all the same tactics.

1576
01:38:04.319 --> 01:38:08.319
<v Speaker 2>I mean, these kids die or they get severely abused

1577
01:38:08.600 --> 01:38:09.640
<v Speaker 2>all the time.

1578
01:38:09.680 --> 01:38:13.520
<v Speaker 1>And so literally nothing ever came of this.

1579
01:38:13.960 --> 01:38:17.000
<v Speaker 2>Well it branched off into other horrible things. Like the

1580
01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:20.039
<v Speaker 2>worst aspects if you ask me of Synanon was what

1581
01:38:20.079 --> 01:38:23.520
<v Speaker 2>they did to the kids. I mean these adults, yeah,

1582
01:38:23.600 --> 01:38:26.600
<v Speaker 2>brainwashed whatever they were choosing to be there.

1583
01:38:27.119 --> 01:38:30.119
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they put somebody in a coma, input a rattlesnake

1584
01:38:30.159 --> 01:38:33.600
<v Speaker 1>in somebody else's mailbox, you don't. I mean they were

1585
01:38:33.640 --> 01:38:38.359
<v Speaker 1>just on the total outskirts of fucking. They should have

1586
01:38:38.439 --> 01:38:39.960
<v Speaker 1>been in jail all of them.

1587
01:38:40.439 --> 01:38:41.279
<v Speaker 2>Well, listen to this.

1588
01:38:41.520 --> 01:38:46.560
<v Speaker 1>They beat that other dude's dad to pieces that was

1589
01:38:46.600 --> 01:38:51.359
<v Speaker 1>trying to help the kids. Nobody goes to jail. He

1590
01:38:51.479 --> 01:38:53.960
<v Speaker 1>just went and got drunk and a drunken stupor, and

1591
01:38:54.000 --> 01:38:59.159
<v Speaker 1>he still got to run the place via his daughter. Like,

1592
01:38:59.199 --> 01:39:01.199
<v Speaker 1>I don't feel like this this is a happy ending.

1593
01:39:01.920 --> 01:39:09.319
<v Speaker 2>This was something he said when I think when the

1594
01:39:09.319 --> 01:39:14.439
<v Speaker 2>the beef with the media and all that was going on,

1595
01:39:17.359 --> 01:39:19.640
<v Speaker 2>he went on the wire and all this shit was recorded.

1596
01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:21.800
<v Speaker 2>You could actually go find some of it today. I

1597
01:39:21.880 --> 01:39:26.520
<v Speaker 2>listened to a bunch of it. He announced the organization's

1598
01:39:26.600 --> 01:39:30.079
<v Speaker 2>new religious posture, and this was in September of seventy seven,

1599
01:39:31.239 --> 01:39:34.920
<v Speaker 2>after he had lost three hundred thousand dollars for abducting

1600
01:39:34.960 --> 01:39:38.039
<v Speaker 2>and brainwashing a member that Paul Morantskuy won that case.

1601
01:39:38.079 --> 01:39:40.079
<v Speaker 2>But after that happened, he went on the wire and

1602
01:39:40.119 --> 01:39:45.000
<v Speaker 2>said this, we're not going to mess with the old

1603
01:39:45.039 --> 01:39:48.960
<v Speaker 2>time turn the other cheek religious posture. Our religious posture

1604
01:39:49.119 --> 01:39:52.159
<v Speaker 2>is don't mess with us. You can get killed dead,

1605
01:39:52.399 --> 01:39:55.600
<v Speaker 2>literally dead. I am quite willing to break some lawyer's

1606
01:39:55.680 --> 01:39:58.680
<v Speaker 2>legs and next break his wife's legs and threaten to

1607
01:39:58.720 --> 01:40:01.560
<v Speaker 2>cut their child's arm off. That is the end of

1608
01:40:01.600 --> 01:40:05.199
<v Speaker 2>that lawyer. That is a very satisfactory human way of

1609
01:40:05.239 --> 01:40:08.279
<v Speaker 2>transmitting information. I really do want an ear and a

1610
01:40:08.319 --> 01:40:11.800
<v Speaker 2>glass of alcohol on my desk. Yes, indeed, And that

1611
01:40:11.920 --> 01:40:14.760
<v Speaker 2>was a month before Palm Morantz was bitten by the rattlesnake.

1612
01:40:15.319 --> 01:40:17.840
<v Speaker 1>But he doesn't go to jail, even though he made

1613
01:40:17.880 --> 01:40:18.760
<v Speaker 1>statements like that.

1614
01:40:19.079 --> 01:40:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Nope, no jail time.

1615
01:40:21.119 --> 01:40:22.800
<v Speaker 1>So this is not a happy ending.

1616
01:40:23.359 --> 01:40:26.720
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if any of these will have happy endings.

1617
01:40:26.720 --> 01:40:30.239
<v Speaker 2>Did you pick some for future episodes? For the people

1618
01:40:30.279 --> 01:40:32.680
<v Speaker 2>listening the proud cult members of.

1619
01:40:32.880 --> 01:40:37.359
<v Speaker 1>You know what I considered a happy ending. The motherfuckers

1620
01:40:37.359 --> 01:40:42.000
<v Speaker 1>who start the thing dies horribly. I mean, like the

1621
01:40:42.039 --> 01:40:46.239
<v Speaker 1>Solar Temple for example, they suicided themselves.

1622
01:40:46.600 --> 01:40:48.479
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of them were either murdered or

1623
01:40:48.520 --> 01:40:49.359
<v Speaker 2>helped to die.

1624
01:40:49.840 --> 01:40:52.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, but good, they're dead. We got rid of them.

1625
01:40:53.319 --> 01:40:57.840
<v Speaker 1>This guy get literally nothing happens to.

1626
01:40:57.840 --> 01:41:00.960
<v Speaker 2>Him and his tactics remakes to this day.

1627
01:41:01.039 --> 01:41:04.279
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, in these they live on, they survive on,

1628
01:41:04.600 --> 01:41:08.479
<v Speaker 1>and they just abuse more and more kids. So my

1629
01:41:08.680 --> 01:41:11.079
<v Speaker 1>happy ending is he would have went to jail or

1630
01:41:11.119 --> 01:41:14.479
<v Speaker 1>he died horribly with like a colostomy bag.

1631
01:41:14.800 --> 01:41:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I don't know why you're getting so bent out of shape.

1632
01:41:16.800 --> 01:41:18.359
<v Speaker 2>I never promised a happy ending.

1633
01:41:18.920 --> 01:41:21.319
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's kind of reminds me of that movie I

1634
01:41:21.319 --> 01:41:23.359
<v Speaker 1>said I wanted to make where the bad guy wins

1635
01:41:23.399 --> 01:41:26.439
<v Speaker 1>in the end, because that's real life shit. The bad

1636
01:41:26.479 --> 01:41:32.399
<v Speaker 1>guy wins in the end, like some pedaphocracy type shit.

1637
01:41:33.159 --> 01:41:38.520
<v Speaker 2>That's the moral of the story. Sleep tight, everyone, So.

1638
01:41:38.560 --> 01:41:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Are you giving it one out of ten? Synanons?

1639
01:41:41.920 --> 01:41:44.399
<v Speaker 2>I give this one ten because I think in Sinana,

1640
01:41:44.520 --> 01:41:48.119
<v Speaker 2>I think it has all the elements of all the

1641
01:41:48.159 --> 01:41:50.680
<v Speaker 2>mainstream cults that we know about. And like I said,

1642
01:41:50.720 --> 01:41:54.399
<v Speaker 2>most people out there have probably at least heard of Cynanon,

1643
01:41:55.079 --> 01:41:58.119
<v Speaker 2>if not even watched one of those documentaries I was

1644
01:41:58.119 --> 01:42:01.680
<v Speaker 2>talking about earlier. So I just think this one needs

1645
01:42:01.720 --> 01:42:02.840
<v Speaker 2>to be known about.

1646
01:42:02.800 --> 01:42:05.439
<v Speaker 1>Because yeah, I didn't know about it.

1647
01:42:05.479 --> 01:42:08.439
<v Speaker 2>I mean, this thing goes from fifty eight to ninety one.

1648
01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:12.479
<v Speaker 2>Remnants of it thrive today in this troubled teen industry

1649
01:42:12.600 --> 01:42:14.920
<v Speaker 2>where you send your kids to get help and sometimes

1650
01:42:14.960 --> 01:42:21.600
<v Speaker 2>they die. Yeah. Joe Rogan's booker for the mother Ship,

1651
01:42:21.600 --> 01:42:23.399
<v Speaker 2>and I think he met this guy at the comedy store.

1652
01:42:23.399 --> 01:42:26.199
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember Adam Eager or something like that. Eagres

1653
01:42:26.960 --> 01:42:31.960
<v Speaker 2>he was someone who went to see do and like

1654
01:42:32.039 --> 01:42:34.800
<v Speaker 2>he tried to expose it. But yeah, these things still

1655
01:42:34.840 --> 01:42:37.600
<v Speaker 2>happened today. I know that one of my ex girlfriends,

1656
01:42:38.079 --> 01:42:39.800
<v Speaker 2>her mom didn't know what to do with her because

1657
01:42:39.840 --> 01:42:42.479
<v Speaker 2>she was just a regular teenage girl rebellion. So she

1658
01:42:42.600 --> 01:42:47.520
<v Speaker 2>sent her to this work camp in Montana. What Yeah,

1659
01:42:48.000 --> 01:42:51.000
<v Speaker 2>how was the She loved it. It turned her into

1660
01:42:51.000 --> 01:42:53.880
<v Speaker 2>a farmer. Really, I mean, she's the one who owns

1661
01:42:53.920 --> 01:42:56.520
<v Speaker 2>the land out in that area we're driving around.

1662
01:42:57.239 --> 01:42:59.960
<v Speaker 1>So she loved it.

1663
01:43:00.119 --> 01:43:03.640
<v Speaker 2>She said it taught her structure and made her a

1664
01:43:03.680 --> 01:43:07.720
<v Speaker 2>good you know, instilled work ethic and well, well don't

1665
01:43:07.920 --> 01:43:10.239
<v Speaker 2>so not all of it's bad, but a lot of

1666
01:43:10.239 --> 01:43:14.600
<v Speaker 2>this shit when you send your kids to these programs

1667
01:43:14.640 --> 01:43:20.000
<v Speaker 2>that are running stuff that was going.

1668
01:43:19.760 --> 01:43:22.560
<v Speaker 1>On, end up helping kids.

1669
01:43:22.600 --> 01:43:25.560
<v Speaker 2>Though for sure, I would say we know about those

1670
01:43:25.640 --> 01:43:27.720
<v Speaker 2>ones more. You don't hear it. You don't watch a

1671
01:43:27.760 --> 01:43:29.920
<v Speaker 2>documentary where they're like, I went to a work camp

1672
01:43:30.000 --> 01:43:34.199
<v Speaker 2>and I learned how to ride donkeys. I'm happy nobody

1673
01:43:34.199 --> 01:43:36.479
<v Speaker 2>wants to watch that shit. But yeah, it's not good.

1674
01:43:36.840 --> 01:43:39.720
<v Speaker 2>I mean to me, it's just like if you're a

1675
01:43:39.800 --> 01:43:42.840
<v Speaker 2>parent and you can't handle your kids so you send

1676
01:43:42.880 --> 01:43:48.359
<v Speaker 2>them away. That's a failure on your part. That's neither

1677
01:43:48.359 --> 01:43:49.119
<v Speaker 2>here nor there.

1678
01:43:49.439 --> 01:43:52.680
<v Speaker 1>Do you know which cult you're covering in our next installment?

1679
01:43:53.000 --> 01:43:58.800
<v Speaker 2>For next episode, I will give you a hint, Anthony

1680
01:43:58.840 --> 01:44:03.760
<v Speaker 2>Fauci with a smile. That's all I'm going to say.

1681
01:44:04.920 --> 01:44:08.239
<v Speaker 1>I am covering one that goes all the way back

1682
01:44:10.640 --> 01:44:17.159
<v Speaker 1>in time. For mine. It's it's one of the og cults,

1683
01:44:17.239 --> 01:44:22.439
<v Speaker 1>if you will, a cult, granddaddy of all cults that

1684
01:44:23.359 --> 01:44:27.119
<v Speaker 1>kind of like sin and on bits and pieces of

1685
01:44:27.159 --> 01:44:30.399
<v Speaker 1>it still remain today.

1686
01:44:30.680 --> 01:44:36.479
<v Speaker 2>Christianity, honey, what you have to leave that in there?

1687
01:44:41.279 --> 01:44:43.359
<v Speaker 1>Any closing thoughts.

1688
01:44:44.640 --> 01:44:48.960
<v Speaker 2>Don't forget to leave your house with an umbrella and

1689
01:44:49.439 --> 01:44:52.279
<v Speaker 2>join a cult. And if you do, you probably won't

1690
01:44:52.319 --> 01:44:53.520
<v Speaker 2>hear the next episode.

1691
01:44:53.840 --> 01:44:58.359
<v Speaker 1>Well, what if it's the Cult of Conspiracy.

1692
01:44:57.920 --> 01:45:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Well they've already joined if they're listening to join another one,

1693
01:45:02.359 --> 01:45:04.800
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to leave this Cult of Conspiracy. But

1694
01:45:05.239 --> 01:45:09.079
<v Speaker 2>that's your homework consignment. Go join a local cult and

1695
01:45:09.119 --> 01:45:10.119
<v Speaker 2>report back to.

1696
01:45:10.079 --> 01:45:13.039
<v Speaker 1>Us, and Cult of Conspiracy doesn't count.

1697
01:45:13.000 --> 01:45:17.119
<v Speaker 2>And maybe we'll cover your cult in the bonus episode

1698
01:45:18.039 --> 01:45:19.039
<v Speaker 2>only on Patreon.

1699
01:45:20.840 --> 01:45:26.199
<v Speaker 1>And with that being said, there is one very important

1700
01:45:26.359 --> 01:45:29.239
<v Speaker 1>vital piece of information I need you to learn, just

1701
01:45:29.359 --> 01:45:32.600
<v Speaker 1>as soon as humanly possible.

1702
01:45:32.520 --> 01:46:11.239
<v Speaker 3>That RASSA shut down on me, sent down on you. No, mad,

1703
01:46:11.319 --> 01:46:11.640
<v Speaker 3>that's what.

1704
01:46:13.159 --> 01:46:13.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm not.

1705
01:46:13.720 --> 01:46:16.920
<v Speaker 3>RASA in town.

1706
01:46:17.399 --> 01:46:18.319
<v Speaker 1>It's a family.

1707
01:46:19.800 --> 01:46:24.920
<v Speaker 3>Let's be bum suits.

1708
01:46:27.079 --> 01:46:32.119
<v Speaker 2>Hey y'all, this is cosmic peach coming on at you. Whoo,

1709
01:46:33.640 --> 01:46:34.119
<v Speaker 2>something like that.