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Speaker 1: If you want to get the show early and ad free,

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head on over to the peak Kinyonas show dot com.

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There you can choose from where you wish to support me.

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Now listen very carefully. I've had some people ask me

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about this, even though I think on the last ad

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I stated it pretty clearly. If you want an RSS feed,

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You can also subscribe on my website which is right there,

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if you do that, you will get access to the

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audio file. So head on over to the pekan Yonashow

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dot com. You'll see all the ways that you can

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support me there. And I just want to thank everyone.

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It's because of you that I can put out the

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amount of material that I do. I can do what

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I'm doing with doctor Johnson on two hundred Years Together

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and everything else, the things that Thomas and I are

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doing together on kindinal philosophy, it's all because of you.

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And yeah, I mean, I'll never be able to thank

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you enough, So thank you. The Pekanyonashow dot com. Everything's there. Well,

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it sounds like someone's making tea or stirring sugar in

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a coffee cup. That's that's nice. I have two professionals

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here with me, car Doll and Jay Burden, and we're

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going to talk about exactly what kind of guns and

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equipment you need to survive, like, you know, when the

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shit hits the fan? Right, Am I talking to the

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right guys.

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Speaker 2: For this, Yes? And if he use my affiliate links

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down in the description below, you too, it can be

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safe from whatever may come.

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Speaker 1: My patriots.

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Speaker 3: Supply there's a war for your mind.

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Speaker 1: You know what I was thinking about before, you know,

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right before we connected on this was.

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Speaker 3: Just how I mean.

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Speaker 1: I shoit on boomers all the time, but if you're

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in quote unquote the gun community or you go to

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gun shows, there's just a warm place in your heart

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for these guys because you cannot help but experience them.

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I know it has to be the same way with Burden,

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because I know Burden lives in the South. Doll doesn't

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look in the South. But I'm assuming it's the same thing.

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Oh it is. Yeah, And some of these are the

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most base, I mean some of the best. I mean, really,

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the only World War Two memorabilia I've ever found at

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gun shows was boomer was boomers who were just like

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knew more than knew, way more than I knew. And

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it's just amazing. Is that is that your experience?

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Speaker 2: Well, there's a scene and it might be my favorite

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scene unrelated to the plot in Carl Doll's book, where

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the main character, after the plot is kind of wrapped up,

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brings his you know, war trophies back to this whole

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town and Pacific Northwest and goes to a gun store

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to sell it, you know, just to get some cash

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to you know, start his family or whatever. And that

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scene where you know, it's it's the guy's having and

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hauling and offering him just horribly undervalued prices, you know,

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really obsessing about markings. When I read that, I was like, Carl,

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you have been to a lot of gun shows, because

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I have heard or been a part of this conversation

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for decades, just over and over again.

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Speaker 3: I and used to work tables. Yep.

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Speaker 2: When I read that, I was like, yes, Carl has

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been to a gun show. You couldn't have written it otherwise.

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Speaker 3: And there's always the jovial, the jovial boomer like outdoorsman

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who works at the gun shop just because he loves

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talking about guns and trading. And then you have the

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hard nosed, like money oriented guys who also have like

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an obsession and something that they want to get. So yeah, absolutely, yeah,

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no that's my that's my uh, that's my scene and

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uh yes those there are many fans of the era

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among that cohort, and they're very they're very generous with

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with their knowledge and you know, letting you shoot crazy

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stuff like if you go to if you go to

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a range, if you belong to a range that has

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like specialty shoots that that are regular scheduled and maybe

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you're like, I don't care about black powder cartridge rifles.

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I don't care, doesn't matter. Go to the range and

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shoot like right before that. And then as all the

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guys come, you'll get to see all their cool stuff

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and they'll be like, hey, do you want to shoot

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like a five thousand dollars rifle in forty five seventy

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You know, here you go. So it's it's really cool.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're very open and you know, ready to have

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a conversation and you're not. You're not a serious gun

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guy until you've heard a boomer utterer. The most famous

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words you've ever heard, I know what I got.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's like there's there's that, and then there's also

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various Internet or various like pre internet tall tales about

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the vaunted stopping powder of forty five ACP. And when

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I say this, I mean literally the last time I

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was at a gun store, I had a man who's

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probably eighty uh miss explained to me or misremember the

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entire story of John Moses Browning's life. And look, I'm

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there for the ride, you know, It's like I'm having fun,

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but he was. At one point we got to well,

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they needed something to kill, like Maori tribesmen. I'm like,

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I think those guys are from New Zealand, but like.

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Speaker 3: Whatever, what was it I endorsed?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, all right, sure I would want to

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kill them too, I guess.

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Speaker 1: I mean, anyone who's ever seen anyone who's ever seen

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a hakka dance endorses this idea.

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Speaker 2: It's that exact lineup you've seen of the rugby team,

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and then some guy with a Vietnam VET hat and

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tall white sox just pulls up on a mobility scooter

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and guns them down.

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Speaker 3: Two World Wars. They all fall to hardball.

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Speaker 1: Nine millimeter may kill the body. But the forty five

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kills the soul.

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Speaker 3: That's all right.

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Speaker 2: I've been reliably informed by a recent US president that

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nine millimeter will blow the lungs out of your body.

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So lungs are slightly, I guess lower on the list

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than the soul.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I mean, I just feel like gun shows,

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especially gun shows in the South, is that's just America.

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When people are like, I wish we could go back

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go to a gun show in the South, go.

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Speaker 3: To a gun show. Yeah, it used to beg Yeah, yeah,

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it used to be like that here too. It's just

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the regulations have spiraled. But I'll never forget the first

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time you bring someone to like a classic gun show

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and they just they get the vibe and they look

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at you and they just smile and they're like I

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get it, Like I get I get why you do this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go into there's a classic gun collectors organization down

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here in Alabama. In order to become a member, you

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have to have like two of them sign off for you,

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two existing members sign off for you. It's real, you know,

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secret stuff. It's not like you could just go to

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a table at one of their shows to be like, hey,

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can you sign this off for me. Sure, man, you

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look like a good guy. Okay, yeah, sure, you feel

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real important after that. But yeah, I've never really taken

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anyone to a gun show who is like not in

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the gun community. But for some reason Alabama, when you

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go to a gun when you go to a classic

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gun show, there are weapons from a particular mid century

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European regime that are abundant here. And I would love

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to see, like, you know, you take some normy there,

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you know, some like left of center, no normy, you know,

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not some like real shit lib or libtard, but some

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like left of center Normian. See you know, the first

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time they pick up, like, you know, a PO eight

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and they see the markings on it and just to

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see their face like what they would do.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's it's that's a definite part of it.

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The other thing I love, which I mean, there's certainly

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that like you are in a specific culture, you must

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conform to it. But is the other part of that,

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which is the extreme like schizo boomer like political paraphernalia,

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some of which you can just get for free, like

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I've got it on my desk, like right below my

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bike stand that I got at the last gun show

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I went to, I guess in twenty twenty four, so

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this was before the election, and there's just a guy

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palming them, just handing them out to anyone. And it's

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a fake gold coin in one of those little like

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you know, I guess, commemorative sleeves and it just says

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Donald Trump twenty twenty four, the Revenge Tour, and it's

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got a photo of Donald Trump with his fist stuff

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in the air. I love it. I think it's hilarious.

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I've kept it ever since. And like, especially if you're

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I mean, if you are not a baby boomer, they

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are so happy to have you there, Like the young

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people care about.

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Speaker 3: Guns, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: And if you know enough just to talk a little bit,

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or you care about you know, anything that isn't you know,

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brand new and plastic enough to ask questions, you could

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be someone's best friend in like an hour. I highly

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recommend it.

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Speaker 3: So you mentioned you mentioned the paraphernalia guys I had.

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One of my best friends is he He worked for

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a guy who was like the Pacific Northwest edgy book

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salesman at guns at gun shows, and he his he

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made a living just doing the circuit in a multi

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state area. And so when he retired from the business,

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he gave my buddy like crates of nineties, eighties and

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nineties books and then you know, half of it was

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kind of worthless. But you know, what he ended up

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doing is just putting together packages of you can have

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one hundred manuals and I'll sell it to you for

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twenty bucks. And so that he did that to clear

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out the junk and then the really good stuff like

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the palette and press stuff, or the the inter war

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memoirs and things of that nature, or like the uh

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Savatry Deva and that kind of tier of stuff. Like

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he had a market for that, and it took him years,

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but he ended up successfully doing it to where it

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was kind of like worth his while. But he was

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just at one point, like, you know, the gas of

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driving this crap around forever probably you know, was barely

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breaking even. And so it was clearly a sign of

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love of the game.

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Speaker 2: Well, and I don't operate a ton at stores anymore

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because up until for like a four year period it

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seems to have just been struck down. My state had

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really draconian and confusing laws on private sales from around

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I guess like twenty nineteen through like just a few

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days ago, so it just wasn't really worth it, and

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so I did most of the stuff online and sort

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of buying and selling and wheeling and dealing is one

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of the only ways you can continually own cool things

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without driving yourself into the poorhouse. Because if you're just

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straight buying new and keeping stuff, you can burn money

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really really fast. But if you as you know, I

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and others do sort of tweet it like a rental

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system where it's like, would I own this for a

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year for you know, one hundred dollars out of my

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pocket or you know, maybe make a hundred dollars back,

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you know, not crazy margins. You can kind of float

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and continually try things out, and that doesn't mean the

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collection doesn't grow over time, but you know that ability

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to sort of you know, buy and trade is one

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really fun lets you try stuff you wouldn't be able

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to otherwise. And also it keeps it from being a

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just a normally expensive instead of show we say, a

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ruinously expensive hobby. I'm curious if you guys had the

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same experience.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, so that I think one of the

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ways that you do that is like someone's selling you know,

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they have fifteen or sixteen guns on the table, and

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you're like kind of interested in two. That's a really

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good way to wheel and deal. And then you know,

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using the doctor Mister J. Burden approach, you take the

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optics off of it, or you take some accessory off

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of it, and you either keep it and put it

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on one of your other weapons, or you sell that

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to kind of help finance the thing. Like I'll never forget.

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A friend of mine was like, I got a guy

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who's selling a glock twenty three which is forty caliber

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and it has one of those I forget who made it,

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but it was a fairly high end like laser grip

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module that you pin in, you know, you you replace

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two pins on the on the glock frame with slightly

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longer pins. And I was like, what am I gonna

239
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,519
do with a stupid laser sight? And he's like, you

240
00:14:18,559 --> 00:14:20,480
can get a hundred bucks for the laser site, and

241
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I was like, oh, oh okay, so I can get

242
00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:26,799
this you know, fairly decent gun for about you know,

243
00:14:26,879 --> 00:14:30,679
two hundred and thirty five dollars and then I can

244
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,039
either convert it to nine or just have a forty

245
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,000
blaster for when that's all you can get, and so

246
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you know that kind of you get into this logic,

247
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and yes, you end up spending more money that way,

248
00:14:42,559 --> 00:14:44,720
like upfront, but then it gives you a lot of

249
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flexibility and it's really great for wheeling and dealing then

250
00:14:47,759 --> 00:14:51,120
because you know a guy who's all in on forty

251
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right just from going to these things, you know he'll

252
00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,519
he has tons of forty Like I have a friend

253
00:14:57,519 --> 00:15:00,879
who has thirty five thousand rounds of forty coups ammunition

254
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:04,039
and he's just like I bought I bought it when

255
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,960
it was like fifteen cents around and just was like,

256
00:15:08,279 --> 00:15:10,159
I'm just going to go all in on this and

257
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,480
I'm just gonna have forty caliber pistols. You know, he

258
00:15:13,519 --> 00:15:15,720
has a bigger collection now, he's in the industry now.

259
00:15:15,759 --> 00:15:19,320
But you know there's a you'll meet a lot of

260
00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,679
interesting people like that who are cool guys, and then

261
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,720
you always have someone that you can go to to

262
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,080
unload the stuff where you're like, eh, I don't want

263
00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:32,039
to spend you know, by by the time doing this,

264
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I'm spending more money than it's worth to me personally.

265
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I'd rather have a nice you know, thousand dollars pistol

266
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than like three of these, you know, three hundred and

267
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fifty dollars pistols.

268
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Speaker 1: So well, the good thing about like the gun show

269
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circuit especially, you know a lot of people would be like, well,

270
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you know, I don't really want to see the same

271
00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,200
people the same tables at the gun show over and

272
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over again. But the good thing about that is you

273
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,960
get their phone numbers. They find stuff, I'll call you first.

274
00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,759
If you know you have something that they want, you know,

275
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you you can negotiate with them. And it's just really

276
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having being able to, like if you're looking for something

277
00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:18,440
very specific, you know, something that may be antique or

278
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:23,519
something like that, having that kind of network and knowing

279
00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:26,840
who likes what you know, Like there's this one table

280
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,919
where I know this guy just wants like made in

281
00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:34,360
West Germany SIGs. So if I come across and made

282
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:38,600
in West Germany sig, I know he's going to be

283
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:42,759
willing to deal, you know, give me a higher trade

284
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:45,080
value on something that you know, if he has an

285
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,960
H and K or something I want, you know, we

286
00:16:47,039 --> 00:16:49,720
may just be able to swap it evenly. Even though

287
00:16:49,799 --> 00:16:52,320
he's he's going to turn around and sell that. So

288
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,720
it really is networking and you know, and then there

289
00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,279
are stores you can get to know that where you know,

290
00:17:00,759 --> 00:17:04,359
there's a pawn shop locally to me where I if

291
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,119
I want to get rid of something, I won't mind

292
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,160
losing a couple hundred dollars on it just because I

293
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:11,279
like him and he like does transfers for me for

294
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,319
literally nothing. Oh that's so yeah.

295
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 3: So it's just.

296
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Speaker 1: You know what it really when it comes down to it,

297
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:24,079
anybody in the gun community, you know's if you're really

298
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,599
into guns and you you like to trade in and

299
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,759
out of stuff, it's who you know and who you're

300
00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:29,559
willing to deal with.

301
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:32,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean to that point, I was sort

302
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,079
of joking with my grandpa about this because you know,

303
00:17:35,079 --> 00:17:36,839
he's the guy who got me and the guns, but

304
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,920
he's been doing the same thing for decades at this point,

305
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,559
and we were kind of joking about, you know, back

306
00:17:42,559 --> 00:17:44,440
in the old forum days or now there's you know,

307
00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:49,119
groups on Telegram or other places, and he's like, yeah,

308
00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:52,319
you do enough deals with a guy and it's like,

309
00:17:52,319 --> 00:17:54,519
I don't even think I know his first name, but

310
00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,319
we've done like thousands of dollars worth of business. He

311
00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,359
told me when his mom was six, So I sent

312
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,640
him a message. You know, it's like you develop these

313
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,200
weird connections, and it's super helpful because it sort of

314
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,680
provides a It provides a level of assurance that you

315
00:18:12,039 --> 00:18:14,599
can't always get because it's like, well, even if I

316
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,000
don't know this seller, oh you know this guy from

317
00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:20,920
this group, I know he vouches for it. So you

318
00:18:21,279 --> 00:18:23,759
really do build a sort of social network in a

319
00:18:23,839 --> 00:18:28,440
very kind of organic way. And look like I was

320
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,559
gonna say, even if you're not interested in guns, but

321
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:32,599
I think the people who are not interested in guns

322
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:35,759
turned off like fifteen minutes ago. But it is an

323
00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:39,160
interesting model for a couple reasons, because one, you have

324
00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:42,079
a group of people who are doing something the regime

325
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,440
doesn't really want you to do, Like there are a

326
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,000
lot of there's a lot of friction to doing this.

327
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,240
So you're sort of finding people who are operating at

328
00:18:52,279 --> 00:18:55,160
the kind of edges of polite society but are still

329
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,960
good people. And you're learning how to right How do

330
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,960
you establish trust, how do you understand you know, okay,

331
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:03,920
what's someone interested in? How can we make a deal,

332
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,319
how can we do something you know mutually beneficiary because

333
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,720
the other thing you realize is that and this goes

334
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:12,960
to your point, Pete, they're often there are always times

335
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,160
where it's like, well I could maybe get five percent

336
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,440
more or five you know, I could get a little

337
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,240
bit extra, but I won't because I want to keep

338
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:25,559
this relationship. And comparing that to the kind of raw

339
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,640
open market, you know, just up on a listing, anyone

340
00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,359
gets it, who gets it, it's a very different thing.

341
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,240
And I think if we're looking at a model of

342
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,599
you know, high trust society, that's an interesting way to

343
00:19:36,599 --> 00:19:38,799
look at it because it's a group of people united

344
00:19:38,839 --> 00:19:43,000
by a common purpose. But it depends on it depends

345
00:19:43,039 --> 00:19:45,319
on a relatively high level of trust.

346
00:19:46,799 --> 00:19:47,160
Speaker 3: I don't know.

347
00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:49,359
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm overextended there, but I think there's something to it.

348
00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 3: No, there definitely is. And there's the other thing too

349
00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:56,799
with doing everything online is that you're paying fees like

350
00:19:57,039 --> 00:20:00,599
crazy because everything has sales tax. If you're in a

351
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,279
sales tax state or they're in a sales tax state,

352
00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:09,880
you have, you know, commissions for the brokers. If it's

353
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,759
an auction, you have to do all this math in

354
00:20:12,799 --> 00:20:17,400
your head at all times, and you know, sometimes it

355
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,079
works and it's really convenient, and then you have to

356
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,000
do a transfer. And so, as Pete pointed out, if

357
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,759
you do business with the same people a lot, like

358
00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:29,119
you can get deals there or they'll do like two

359
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:34,480
transfers for you know, you know, thirty bucks instead of

360
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:38,599
you know, thirty each or something like that. Like you

361
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,279
work on it, you get these deals. You let them

362
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:45,400
profit off you and basically let them know that you

363
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:49,079
know that they're profiting off of you, and then they'll

364
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,119
meet you halfway unless they're just a complete mercenary. And

365
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:55,319
you just shouldn't do business with people like that. You

366
00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:58,720
should do business with people who see it as a

367
00:20:58,720 --> 00:20:59,880
as a social thing.

368
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even like you know, some of the stores,

369
00:21:04,079 --> 00:21:06,359
a couple of the stores I deal with, it's it

370
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,319
really is a social thing. I mean, look, they're making

371
00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:11,039
they're looking to make money, sure, but if you hang

372
00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:13,079
out in there. You know, there's one pawn shop that

373
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,240
I go to all the time. There's couch couches and

374
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:21,160
and chairs in there, and yeah, the owner, the owner

375
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:22,960
has his dad in there, and I mean they're just

376
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,920
telling stories and I'm just shutting up. I'm just listening

377
00:21:27,279 --> 00:21:29,440
because you never know what kind of great story you're

378
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:30,119
going to listen to you.

379
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 3: You know.

380
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,559
Speaker 1: So like the guy I was talking about who is

381
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,559
like really into made in made in West Germany SIGs.

382
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,559
This guy used to work for Homeland Security and he's

383
00:21:39,599 --> 00:21:41,079
like got he's got stories.

384
00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: He's telling me stories.

385
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,039
Speaker 1: He's begging to come on the podcast to tell stories.

386
00:21:46,519 --> 00:21:50,640
He's just like, you know, just a cool old dude.

387
00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:55,599
And yeah, he puts together like he'll buy like like

388
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,079
polish sport eight k's and then fix them up with like,

389
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,559
you know, like furniture. He'll find rare furniture and stuff.

390
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,480
I mean, he's just having a good time. Sure he's

391
00:22:04,519 --> 00:22:06,880
making money, but he really is having a good time.

392
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,400
And you know, I also have to feel for these

393
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,039
guys and love these guys a lot because also when

394
00:22:14,039 --> 00:22:16,960
it comes to gun community, not everybody's like us. Not

395
00:22:17,039 --> 00:22:21,079
everybody's respectful. They have to deal with some really crappy

396
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:25,759
people too, you know. And you can imagine I'm in

397
00:22:25,799 --> 00:22:28,119
the South, and you know, you show up at a

398
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:32,960
gun show and you know, it can get multicultural, and

399
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:39,039
not everybody is going to have the same etiquette. Let's

400
00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:42,000
put it that way. When it comes to weapons, or

401
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:45,599
when it comes to even you know, talking about price

402
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,440
or haggling price that we do. And yeah, I have

403
00:22:49,519 --> 00:22:51,279
to give it to a lot of these guys because

404
00:22:51,319 --> 00:22:54,640
they are putting up with some really shitty, really shitty

405
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,519
people all the time. And it really is a high

406
00:22:58,519 --> 00:23:04,000
trust It is a a miniature version, like a microcosm

407
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,519
of a high trust society. And yeah, I've it's rare,

408
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,039
very rare that I've met someone at a gun show

409
00:23:12,039 --> 00:23:15,599
who's selling, especially somebody boomerage, that I'm like, I just

410
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:17,599
got to get away from this guy, unless it's one

411
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,640
of those guys who will not stop talking unless you

412
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,599
cut them off, and you're like, dude, I gotta go

413
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,640
to the bathroom. Man, I'm sorry, I'll be back.

414
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well it's maybe there's an article in here

415
00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:35,079
how to talk to people for the criminally online, But

416
00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,599
one of the best tactics is to just like, you know,

417
00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:39,960
have a couple openers that you throw out right. This

418
00:23:40,079 --> 00:23:44,119
works with everyone, but with gun stores like Far and Away,

419
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,480
the easiest way to break the ice is look around

420
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:51,279
for some sign like print it off, handwritten whatever that

421
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,720
explains a basic concept of human etiquette, like we won't

422
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:58,079
sell you a gun if you smell like alcohol or

423
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,799
weed something like that, and just ask the guy at

424
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:03,720
the counter. So what's the story with that sign? And

425
00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:08,039
to your point, Pete, is in every case what you

426
00:24:08,079 --> 00:24:12,359
and I would consider the bare minimum of just human decency.

427
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,839
You know that it is just too too high a hurdle.

428
00:24:16,039 --> 00:24:20,079
So for example, right, I one of the my NFA dealer,

429
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,480
the guy I go to and I get a suppressor.

430
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,920
There's a pawn shop in the same strip, mall right,

431
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,440
they almost share a wall, and there's a big sign

432
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:32,519
that says if X y Z pawn shop denies you,

433
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,039
we will too. And he's like, yeah, I have the

434
00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:37,640
sign up because twice a week some guy comes in,

435
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,319
goes to one store, comes back, he's a felon, decides

436
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,519
to go next door and acts surprised what I tell him,

437
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,640
it's the same system. It doesn't work, and so like

438
00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:52,240
that's a stupid example, right, But the that lowest common

439
00:24:52,279 --> 00:24:56,880
denominator is it is both worrying and a good way

440
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,759
to break the ice with other normal people who have

441
00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,319
this same reaction that you know we do, just to

442
00:25:02,319 --> 00:25:05,200
say wow, that's uh, that's not great. I don't think

443
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,359
people should act like that.

444
00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:12,559
Speaker 3: As you can imagine my conversation starter is always like

445
00:25:12,839 --> 00:25:15,400
I'm looking at stuff that other people aren't looking at,

446
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:17,799
like that the average guy my age is not looking

447
00:25:17,839 --> 00:25:18,920
at or young.

448
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 2: You come in sweaty and tweaking. You're like, hey, did

449
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,680
you have any thirty two ACP like.

450
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 3: Scratching my neck?

451
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 2: Yeah?

452
00:25:27,759 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 3: No, I but yeah, so I look at I always

453
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,039
come in and I'll look at like new revolvers, but

454
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,599
it's always carrier revolvers, and then I like migrate through

455
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,519
the used or I just ask him where's your used section?

456
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,839
And then they're like, what are you looking for? And

457
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,400
then there's always a million conversations going to be ready there,

458
00:25:46,519 --> 00:25:49,480
and inevitably I'm going to see something that I didn't

459
00:25:49,519 --> 00:25:52,039
go in there thinking that I was gonna, you know,

460
00:25:52,759 --> 00:25:56,519
obsess over for the next couple months. But but I do.

461
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,559
Speaker 1: I love that I started this off by saying that

462
00:25:59,599 --> 00:26:02,359
we're to talk about one subject, and we're probably not

463
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,079
going to get to that subject. Anyone who uh heard

464
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,920
me and Tom Lawongo do almost two hours on hockey

465
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,319
probably knows, uh probably knows what I'm talking about.

466
00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 3: Well, let's actually let's get to it.

467
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:17,440
Speaker 1: I mean, we can talk about, you know, the the

468
00:26:17,519 --> 00:26:21,000
high trust society and you know how this is its

469
00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:26,640
own little culture and everything. But I don't know, is

470
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,720
is it? I know with Carl, but does it seem

471
00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,519
to you? Do you ever meet anybody there who's like

472
00:26:34,519 --> 00:26:36,920
like me or Carl? And maybe not so much like

473
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,160
JJ's a little more of it normy that you're looking for,

474
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,039
like really weird shit that everybody's like.

475
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,759
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? Well?

476
00:26:45,799 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: Why why are you looking for a Walter pp Everybody

477
00:26:49,519 --> 00:26:52,359
wants a Walther p p K. Why are you you know,

478
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,240
what are you doing here? Why would you expect to

479
00:26:56,319 --> 00:27:00,599
find that here? But you know, gunshow those are the

480
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:04,240
are the place to go for weird stuff. It's very

481
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:07,359
rare that you'll go into a gun shop and find

482
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,960
something completely odd and out of the ordinary because they

483
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,640
just don't want that because it's not going to move.

484
00:27:13,599 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 3: Unless it's an old shop and they have like a

485
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,279
cache of ammunition or something, or they buy a collection.

486
00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:24,920
That's about the only only time you're definitely not going

487
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,200
to go into a shop that specializes or focuses on

488
00:27:28,319 --> 00:27:32,279
new stuff and find anything cool and obscure, unless it's

489
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,839
like they're selling the surplus stuff from like century or

490
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,119
whatever and they just kind of have to get a

491
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,400
bash of random shit and see what sells.

492
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is why neither you were. Neither Carl

493
00:27:44,319 --> 00:27:46,920
or I or like Jay who goes in looking for

494
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,720
like an ati polymer ar and.

495
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:55,079
Speaker 2: A glock, I own neither one of those things. I'm

496
00:27:55,079 --> 00:27:59,000
afflicted with them. See, And this is the thing Lee

497
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,799
makes fun of me for not just being normal and

498
00:28:01,839 --> 00:28:04,960
buying glock. You guys make fun of me for being

499
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,920
too normal. I really can't win for losing here. But

500
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,240
to your point, I think one of the best resources,

501
00:28:12,319 --> 00:28:15,119
not necessarily for buying, because again the fees are pretty bad,

502
00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,480
but is proxy bid, right, which is one of those

503
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,960
like auction house aggregators. And to me it's fascinating because

504
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,720
it is you know, obviously you have you know, the

505
00:28:26,759 --> 00:28:29,759
big ones like you know Rock Island, you know, a

506
00:28:29,759 --> 00:28:32,839
couple of the other like major auction houses, but then

507
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,359
some very small ones. So if you just scroll by,

508
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,559
like okay, what what auctions are going up today, you'll

509
00:28:39,559 --> 00:28:42,440
see all kinds of crazy stuff, like a big shipment

510
00:28:42,599 --> 00:28:45,440
of which is relevant to a conversation you guys had

511
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,640
about a year and a half ago. A big shipment

512
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,799
of Warlord era Chinese mousers like fake just went up

513
00:28:53,119 --> 00:28:55,039
and it's like, Okay, I don't really want to drop

514
00:28:55,079 --> 00:28:57,880
five grand on this, but but I will one hundred percent.

515
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,440
Look at, you know, thirty five high definition photos that

516
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,160
some guy took with white gloves.

517
00:29:02,799 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 3: And which fascinated right now.

518
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,279
Speaker 2: This was a while ago, but that's an example. I mean,

519
00:29:08,599 --> 00:29:09,960
I think I may have sent you one or two

520
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,920
of them, Carl a few weeks ago. But things like

521
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,240
that where it's like those still go for sale, just

522
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,279
it seems to be not in brick and mortar as

523
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,039
at least much an There.

524
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: Was an old kitchen table FFL guy that I knew

525
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:30,119
who was like eighty three, who he passed away like

526
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,799
two months after I did a transfer for a styre

527
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:37,960
pistol in like the early Oughts, and he let me

528
00:29:38,079 --> 00:29:41,400
just like check out all this stuff. He had eleven

529
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:45,960
different guns that went through China. He had an Astra

530
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:51,279
nine hundred with Chinese markings like the broomy copy he had.

531
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,599
I don't think it was a Bestigui Ermanos, but it

532
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,680
was some other Spanish one that just at the time

533
00:29:57,759 --> 00:30:01,559
I didn't know as much about that stuff. A bunch

534
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,440
of like thirty two's, and then he had a bunch

535
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,079
of the weird Chinese manufactured ones that are handmade, including

536
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,400
one of those is it Taku Naval Yard forty five

537
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,359
acp broomies. He had two of those actually, and he

538
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,880
had a huge Webley collection. And this is all stuff

539
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,559
that like he bought it when it was like dirt

540
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,279
cheap and like traded for it within a couple of years.

541
00:30:28,799 --> 00:30:32,559
And then as soon as that first batch, which totally

542
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:36,480
shifts the landscape is gone, like the price of skyrocket,

543
00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:41,039
because like people find out about him through these literally

544
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,920
couple hundred to couple thousand guns that come in and

545
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,039
then want them. So yeah, it's wild stuff.

546
00:30:48,079 --> 00:30:51,279
Speaker 1: The only Chinese gun I have, right, I used to

547
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:55,599
have an SKS, obviously, I think every probably everyone's had

548
00:30:54,920 --> 00:31:02,000
a Chinese SKS, but have the tokr off oh.

549
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 2: Way to rub it in. By the time I was

550
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,759
old enough to buy them, they were like five hundred dollars.

551
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 3: Totally not by the way, just for everyone who's out there.

552
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't buy don't buy a Like I'm looking on

553
00:31:14,319 --> 00:31:17,920
gun broker right now, there's an Arinko matching serial number

554
00:31:18,079 --> 00:31:23,839
Polytech SKS that they want fifteen hundred bucks. What yeah, yeah,

555
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,039
and my uh my buddy, the one I was talking

556
00:31:26,039 --> 00:31:29,920
about who wants SIGs in with made in West Germany

557
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,720
on him, he has a he has a Polytech underfolder

558
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,480
new in box matching magazines. The magazines are in the

559
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,240
plastic and he asked like, I think he wants fifty

560
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,240
five hundred for it, And I told him, dude, I

561
00:31:44,319 --> 00:31:47,440
paid less for my truck. I'm not doing There's no

562
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,720
way I would ever do that, but I have I

563
00:31:50,759 --> 00:31:55,200
have a Chinese Tokera off in new inbox with matching magazines,

564
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,200
and I think I paid their injured bucks for it.

565
00:31:57,599 --> 00:32:00,519
But in nine millimeter in my nine millimeters a luger

566
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,599
and it's a really smooth shooting U smooth shooting pistol.

567
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:11,319
But so, yeah, I mean we're we're about halfway into this.

568
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,319
Well let's talk about that, Like, so what are we

569
00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:15,839
talking about?

570
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 3: Like what is it?

571
00:32:17,039 --> 00:32:22,119
Speaker 1: You're an AR fifteen, maybe a Delton and a Glock

572
00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:23,720
nineteen for shit, hit Stefan?

573
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,039
Speaker 3: Is that?

574
00:32:24,039 --> 00:32:25,319
Speaker 1: Where is that where you guys are going?

575
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:26,759
Speaker 3: So?

576
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 2: And look here's maybe I have too much of an

577
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:36,480
economics brain when we talk about this, but here here's

578
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,079
the thing, right, You've got to understand that our guns tools, yes,

579
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,240
and we're dealing fundamentally with a relatively low probability event

580
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,039
that you are going to be in a reasonable fear

581
00:32:51,079 --> 00:32:55,559
for your life and in a shooting. Right now, there's

582
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:58,400
there's context to this, which is, you know, what are

583
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,319
your assumptions about the future, you know, is your mind? Well,

584
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,680
you know, if I go out to my car and

585
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:06,720
the parking garage, you know, meth head Steve pops up

586
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:08,400
with a shive, am I going to be able to

587
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:09,119
defend myself?

588
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:09,559
Speaker 3: Okay?

589
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 2: That's one thing? Are you thinking? Hey, look, you know

590
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,799
if Hurricane Katrina two happens, you know, I don't want

591
00:33:15,799 --> 00:33:17,359
to be in a FEMA camp. You know, I want

592
00:33:17,359 --> 00:33:19,079
to be able to, you know, kind of hunker down.

593
00:33:19,759 --> 00:33:21,680
Or are you preparing for some kind of you know,

594
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:26,119
Mad max X esque situation, you know, or the poles swap,

595
00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:29,359
you know, the seas rise five thousand feet and it's

596
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,799
you know, a major shakeup. Well one, those are completely

597
00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:39,240
different situations. And also, like, depending on your level of prepping,

598
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,240
weapons are a relatively small part of that. Like, if

599
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,319
you're really prepping for the end, Like we've got to

600
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:49,519
talk about water and food production in medicine, and yeah, sure,

601
00:33:49,599 --> 00:33:52,920
like weapons are part of it, but it's a relatively

602
00:33:53,119 --> 00:33:56,079
small part of it, so I think that's that's relevant.

603
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,160
So let's assume that you are, you know, a guy

604
00:33:59,319 --> 00:34:02,440
like us. You know, you're primarily interested in immediate physical

605
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,720
security and kind of light unrest like a Summer of

606
00:34:05,759 --> 00:34:08,679
Floyd type of thing where you know, even in Milwaukee,

607
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,480
if you if you speed down you know, the main

608
00:34:11,559 --> 00:34:14,800
drag during the day, you'll get arrested. So a slight

609
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,320
loss of you know, control, but nothing crazy. Well, to

610
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:21,519
be honest, man like, yeah, sure, maybe a Delton plastic

611
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,119
ar and a you know, one hundred and eighty dollars

612
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,960
high point with you know sits on both sides. Okay,

613
00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:32,519
it's not great, you know, you can certainly do better,

614
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,440
but you really don't need to go much further than that.

615
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:39,360
And I say this as an enthusiast who spent quite

616
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,719
a lot more than that on guns. The floor of

617
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:46,559
acceptable you know, has never been easier to achieve. Like

618
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,360
you can get a perfectly serviceable AR and compact nine

619
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,440
millimeters strike or fired handgun all in for less than

620
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,519
a grand both and both of them will work fine.

621
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:58,960
Will they be the nicest thing, will they be the

622
00:34:58,960 --> 00:34:59,679
most capable?

623
00:35:00,159 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: No?

624
00:35:00,599 --> 00:35:03,199
Speaker 2: But will they clear you over that if I am

625
00:35:03,199 --> 00:35:05,199
an immediate fear of my life, I have something to

626
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,880
remedy that situation. Yes, And so I don't know that's

627
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,199
a very boring answer, but I think from a pure

628
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:13,639
functionality standpoint, that is the correct one.

629
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:17,599
Speaker 1: Would you like any more boring answer, Well, let me

630
00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:21,079
just let me just throw this out there. So yeah,

631
00:35:21,119 --> 00:35:24,239
I mean there's a lot of people I've been around

632
00:35:24,239 --> 00:35:30,199
a lot of boomers who have like really really expensive

633
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:34,960
like nineteen eleven barbecue guns, and these are people that

634
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:37,519
just have too much money to deal with. But if

635
00:35:37,559 --> 00:35:41,280
you don't have that much money, don't be looking for

636
00:35:41,559 --> 00:35:43,960
If you have, like say you have three grand that

637
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,719
you want to put towards this literally get proficient on

638
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,519
one rifle and one handgun and put the rest into AMMO.

639
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:58,480
That's what's most important. And AMMO in the worst of situations,

640
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:00,320
which I don't think is going to happen. And but

641
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,559
who the hell knows in this world AMMO can be

642
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:09,400
it will be currency, so you know, but also that

643
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:15,760
AMMO in a situation like we're describing, will just become

644
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,360
somebody else's if you're not networking and you don't have

645
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,559
people that you're working with, and you're just out there

646
00:36:21,599 --> 00:36:24,159
on an island thinking that you're going to get up

647
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:28,559
on your roof with your you know, Century threeh eight

648
00:36:28,639 --> 00:36:31,760
whatever it is that you paid six hundred bucks for

649
00:36:32,159 --> 00:36:36,639
and hold off, you know thirty guys who have some

650
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:41,360
training and are basically getting you just bought Ammo for them,

651
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:42,239
ding ding.

652
00:36:44,119 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 2: Well, it's like organization and other guys is a way bigger,

653
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:55,119
like force multiplier than marginal increases to your capability, right, Like,

654
00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:56,920
the difference between a you know, let's just say one

655
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,199
hundred dollars and a five hundred dollars red dot is

656
00:37:00,199 --> 00:37:02,719
not equal to having a second guy or to having

657
00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,039
a fourth or a tenth And look, man like, nice

658
00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:09,440
stuff is nice. I enjoy buying expensive things because I

659
00:37:09,559 --> 00:37:12,320
like it, and that's perfectly okay. But I think it's

660
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,519
important to justify or to clarify why you own something

661
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:19,679
like there's multiple kinds of cool as a you know,

662
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,599
veteran og gun, tu bird nut and fancy told us, right,

663
00:37:23,599 --> 00:37:27,320
there's the the this is for a use cool. I

664
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:30,360
need a gun to shoot geese, Okay, well, I probably

665
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,480
want something with a longer barrel and you know, can

666
00:37:32,519 --> 00:37:35,039
accept you know, double magnum shells or something like that.

667
00:37:35,079 --> 00:37:37,320
I don't know anything about hunting geese, but is what

668
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,360
I see people do. Okay, that's cool, you're doing something

669
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,760
for a job, and then there is I just like it. It's fun.

670
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:48,079
I think it's neat and is it practical? Sure? Like

671
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,239
I own a crappy double barreled side by side shotgun,

672
00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:54,840
just like the one Doc Holiday uses. It's given to me.

673
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,679
Is it technically practical? Yes? I could one hundred percent

674
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:04,039
when presented with a you know, disappearing television, pull both

675
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:07,800
triggers and that guy would stop running away with my television.

676
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,480
That would work. But let's be honest, I like it

677
00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:12,199
because I get to pretend to be a cowboy at

678
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,719
the range. Like that's why it's fun, you know, And

679
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,159
there's nothing wrong with that. But I think it's important

680
00:38:17,199 --> 00:38:21,039
to realize, like why you own something, and following down

681
00:38:21,119 --> 00:38:25,360
the rabbit hole of you know, xyz, additional thing to

682
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,159
buy will be the thing that makes you safe and

683
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,800
okay and take away your anxiety. Is like, I mean,

684
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,719
that's pure consumers. Now, I don't want to say that

685
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,360
to play the just as good game, to say, well,

686
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,000
you know, three eighty is just as good as nine mil.

687
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:46,000
And honestly, three eighty is basically thirty two ACP, which

688
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:48,440
is basically and then you get to the point where

689
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,480
you're like, twenty two is the same as forty five,

690
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,880
you know, because you have just kind of rounded up

691
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,119
in a number of agreeable ways. That's not my point

692
00:38:56,119 --> 00:38:59,400
at all. There is better or worse, and better guns

693
00:38:59,559 --> 00:39:02,840
are easier to use, right, and that's to be honest.

694
00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:06,840
What matters right your effective ability to use the weapon.

695
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,880
But I think a lot of people get wrapped up

696
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,360
in that because it's fun to talk about, because it's

697
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,920
fun to buy things and make them your own. But

698
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:19,519
that is not really prepping. That's gun collecting, which is

699
00:39:19,519 --> 00:39:22,840
a separate, a separate activity and one I engage in,

700
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:23,960
but it is a different thing.

701
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, what I would say the most important thing is

702
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:33,639
is standardize within your group. And then the other aspect

703
00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:36,559
of that is any weapon that you select, it doesn't

704
00:39:36,599 --> 00:39:38,920
matter how good it is. You have to be able

705
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:44,000
to acquire spares, spare parts, those high wear parts. Of course,

706
00:39:44,039 --> 00:39:45,719
obviously you have to be able to get all the

707
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,559
springs for it. Because springs wear out, little parts wear out,

708
00:39:50,519 --> 00:39:52,119
you have to be able to work on it. So

709
00:39:52,199 --> 00:39:55,119
that's one of the advantages of like a glock, for example,

710
00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:59,760
a glock seventeen or a glock nineteen is extremely easy

711
00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:02,719
to learn how to work on it, and parts are

712
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,239
just ubiquitous to the point where there's a lot of

713
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:13,039
aftermarket parts that you should just avoid. Right. People love

714
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:17,159
participating in tolerance stacking, where they, you know, do all

715
00:40:17,199 --> 00:40:19,639
this crazy aftermarket stuff and you can get away with

716
00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:24,320
it until you can't write. So so for example, like

717
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:29,159
J loves cz pistols, I love cz pistols, it requires

718
00:40:29,199 --> 00:40:32,280
a slightly higher level of skill to work on your

719
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:38,320
CZ pistol than a glock, for example, like AR Fifteen's

720
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,199
one of the reasons they're so popular is that anybody

721
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,400
can go through the steps to learn how to work

722
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,400
wrench on them themselves. Like you can do it. I mean,

723
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,079
you're probably going to mess something up if you're not

724
00:40:52,199 --> 00:40:54,559
like super mechanically inclined, or you don't know some of

725
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:59,199
the tricks yet when you're first starting out, but probably

726
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,519
someone in your group or someone nearby can actually work

727
00:41:03,559 --> 00:41:07,400
on it. So like Pete said, you get a good

728
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:11,920
decent pistol, Like a carry gun is different than a

729
00:41:12,079 --> 00:41:17,719
like survival pistol. Maybe, right, Like, you're probably just fine

730
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,880
using the same thing I happen to, like thirty two's

731
00:41:22,079 --> 00:41:25,320
for some of the like small game stuff and for

732
00:41:25,519 --> 00:41:28,440
just planking because I reload them and everything like that.

733
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,800
Like a thirty two caliber revolver light small handy, like

734
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,480
that's different than like a carry gun in an urban

735
00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:42,199
setting or like in like bear country. Right, So you

736
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:48,920
have all these different considerations, but practically you're gonna be

737
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:51,599
better served being like I'm not going to get a scar,

738
00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:56,480
you know, because of my crippling video game addiction in

739
00:41:56,519 --> 00:41:59,639
the aughts and teens. I'm going to get an AR

740
00:41:59,639 --> 00:42:02,960
fifteen because I'm not going to be shooting past three

741
00:42:03,039 --> 00:42:06,199
hundred yards. You know, this is just a four example.

742
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:07,039
Maybe you will.

743
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 2: That's about to say, is this a veiled criticism?

744
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,079
Speaker 3: No, not at all, not at all, even though terrain wise,

745
00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:17,159
I probably well, I don't know, it depends. There's plenty

746
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:19,360
of scenarios where you have long range. I'm just saying

747
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,119
that the average person doesn't have to spend twenty five

748
00:42:22,199 --> 00:42:25,440
hundred dollars on a rifle unless they really want to,

749
00:42:26,119 --> 00:42:28,880
and so that if you have like three grand, you're

750
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,360
going to be fine spending a grand on a good

751
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,360
AR fifteen. Like get a good quality AR fifteen. There's

752
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:39,119
a bunch of guides out there online. Optics are really helpful,

753
00:42:39,199 --> 00:42:43,079
especially as you get older, even if it's non magnified.

754
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,039
You know, being able to focus like a one x

755
00:42:46,119 --> 00:42:49,559
prism will make you be able to shoot way better

756
00:42:51,119 --> 00:42:53,320
versus like a red dot, especially if you have like

757
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,800
an astigmatism. You know, there's all these different things that

758
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,800
are considerations, but like decent quality stuff that you can

759
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:06,199
take care of yourself and that you can feed so

760
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,800
with you know, stockpiling ammo. If you want to learn

761
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,800
to reload, that's just another way of exploring the hobby

762
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,639
aspect of it, or like the hunting aspect of it,

763
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,320
doing specialty rounds for more affordable cost, or just making

764
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,119
it cheaper to shoot so you shoot more and then

765
00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:27,639
you spend the same or more money than you did

766
00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:32,159
before you reloaded. Like it's you can't really fool yourself.

767
00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:36,159
There's like this cycle thing that takes place. Although I

768
00:43:36,199 --> 00:43:45,239
will say that reloading like non bird shot shells like

769
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:51,920
buckshot and slugs is economically feasible to do. You can

770
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,079
do it with really simple equipment and actually save save

771
00:43:56,159 --> 00:43:58,840
money that way while tailoring loads to your gun. But

772
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,119
other than that, like you know, you're going to be

773
00:44:01,159 --> 00:44:04,480
buying stuff over the counter. So yeah, those are the

774
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:08,000
things that you should really worry about. You don't have

775
00:44:08,079 --> 00:44:13,039
to go ham. There's this crazy book Gosh, what's the

776
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,559
name of the guy's name? He wrote like like survival firearms.

777
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,400
He was a I think he was an author who's

778
00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:22,639
I think he was from California, and then he moved

779
00:44:22,639 --> 00:44:26,360
to like the the Rouge River Valley some might say

780
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:32,840
Rogue River Valley in southern Oregon and he just he

781
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:36,440
wrote like he would give these lists of like here's

782
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:41,119
thirty five survival firearms, and it's just the most absurd

783
00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:44,440
craft you can imagine, because how is that surviving? That's

784
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,039
just gun collecting and like using specialty guns for hunting

785
00:44:48,159 --> 00:44:52,360
instead of like being versatile. So you know, that's that's

786
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:57,000
unnecessary unless you just do it. But remember the group

787
00:44:57,119 --> 00:45:01,079
is what matters. And so when the old I in

788
00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:06,079
your you know, the divorcee who has you know, three

789
00:45:06,159 --> 00:45:09,800
hundred rifles and one hundred and fifty thousand rounds of

790
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,159
ammunition you know in your community is basically arming the militia.

791
00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:20,039
And you know he will he will smile as he

792
00:45:20,119 --> 00:45:21,639
hands those rifles out right.

793
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:30,119
Speaker 1: Well, you're talking about Keith Jacobs. Oh No, published by

794
00:45:30,119 --> 00:45:33,800
Should Hit s h t F Survival Publications.

795
00:45:35,119 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 3: This is older, this is like seventies. Okay, he has

796
00:45:40,039 --> 00:45:42,079
a real here.

797
00:45:42,159 --> 00:45:44,239
Speaker 1: Here's what I was going to say too, is is

798
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:48,519
that really keep it simple for those of us who've

799
00:45:48,679 --> 00:45:52,199
ever been on gun forums, and one of the biggest

800
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,519
gun forums in the in the country is well in

801
00:45:55,559 --> 00:46:00,159
the South is Outdoors Trader. They're out of Georgia.

802
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 3: When you don't always have.

803
00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:10,039
Speaker 1: To tell people exactly what you're building or what you have,

804
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:17,760
unless you are immune to listening to gun autism, that

805
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,519
will drive you mad. Like if you build your fifth

806
00:46:22,599 --> 00:46:26,679
a R and you decide you're going to have a

807
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,519
you know it's the barrel is going to be the

808
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,679
outer barrel is going to be stainless steel. If you

809
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,119
tell somebody that, they're going to tell you that in

810
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:40,480
a shit hits the Fan scenario, the enemy is going

811
00:46:40,519 --> 00:46:43,559
to be able to see the sun glaring off of

812
00:46:43,599 --> 00:46:49,280
that barrel. So you should immediately remove that barrel and

813
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:55,000
cut it into pieces. Just just beware of that because

814
00:46:55,199 --> 00:46:58,199
there are a lot of guys on those forums who,

815
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:03,480
you know, maybe we're in the shit in the military.

816
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,800
There are also a lot of guys who were probably

817
00:47:07,159 --> 00:47:11,480
manning a desk in the military, and they're going to

818
00:47:11,679 --> 00:47:18,599
tell you exactly what you need to basically prepare yourself

819
00:47:18,639 --> 00:47:24,320
if you're living in say the Ozarks, and you're going

820
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:28,800
to end up spending ten thousand dollars on a rifle

821
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:31,760
and have an a cog on top of it and

822
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:40,280
with a magnifier, and you've just been you've been struck

823
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:45,480
by a gun autism guy, and believe me, they are

824
00:47:45,519 --> 00:47:49,000
out there and they're waiting for you. So smooth criminal

825
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,320
as it were. Yeah, that's where I was going with that.

826
00:47:52,679 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: But I mean J knows this.

827
00:47:56,639 --> 00:48:01,559
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, I do. This is I think an interesting

828
00:48:01,639 --> 00:48:07,239
point because I think people need to look at preparedness

829
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,159
sort of in a like a pyramid structure of severity

830
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:16,559
and likelihood. So you know, okay, let's just look, let's

831
00:48:16,599 --> 00:48:21,159
just use the kind of monopoly of violence, right to

832
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:25,039
what degree is there a monopoly of violence? The kind

833
00:48:25,039 --> 00:48:27,599
of George Floyd example is kind of the base of

834
00:48:27,599 --> 00:48:31,079
that pyramid. You know, there is a slight loss of violence,

835
00:48:31,519 --> 00:48:34,360
but if you and your boys go you know, running

836
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,599
around with you know, plate carriers and ars, you're still

837
00:48:37,599 --> 00:48:40,199
going to get arrested. Right, So you can look at

838
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:42,719
that and say, okay, well, I should probably have something

839
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,079
I can conceal on me, you know, whether that's a

840
00:48:45,079 --> 00:48:47,280
handgun or something you stick in a bag, that is

841
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:51,199
more likely to happen than a true full lot apocalypse.

842
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:53,559
We go up, you know, one step to the kind

843
00:48:53,559 --> 00:48:57,519
of Cique Katrina example, where there is you know, very

844
00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:02,159
long I mean relatively long term punctuated loss of monopoly

845
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,760
on violence. Sure, you know, you still live in a

846
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,280
country called America, and there are other places in America

847
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,519
where that you know, it's life is normal, but where

848
00:49:12,559 --> 00:49:15,679
you are is a problem. So okay, maybe that's the

849
00:49:15,719 --> 00:49:18,159
time when you need you know, a rifle or something

850
00:49:18,199 --> 00:49:21,679
like that. But to make the jump of well, you know,

851
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:23,639
I'll go up to the next level to like some

852
00:49:23,679 --> 00:49:26,400
sort of you know, Bosnian Civil war. So I need

853
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,519
to you know, get a belt fed, and you know

854
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:31,679
all that kind of stuff. It's like well and and

855
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,239
food and friends and look, you know, I'm not a

856
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:37,159
huge prepper. You know, I have a sensible amount of stuff.

857
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:41,199
But I think that for many people it is a

858
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,199
mix of you know, justifying personal consumer habits, which is

859
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:49,559
certainly there, but also it is the I know better

860
00:49:49,599 --> 00:49:52,679
than everyone else, you know, I have found the secret formula,

861
00:49:53,159 --> 00:49:56,280
and when the world comes apart, I will be justified.

862
00:49:56,599 --> 00:49:58,880
I will revealed to be right, and I will, you know,

863
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,440
slam the doors on my can asshole while they all,

864
00:50:01,519 --> 00:50:04,639
you know, scrabble and beg for me to help them.

865
00:50:05,039 --> 00:50:06,880
And I don't want to overly psychologize it, but I

866
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,199
think it's important to say, like, yeah, sure it's important

867
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,199
to be prepared, but it is important to be prepared

868
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:15,320
first for the most likely occurrence, the thing that is

869
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,440
most likely to affect you and your family, instead of

870
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:22,199
you know, kind of your niche boutique in theory about

871
00:50:22,199 --> 00:50:26,039
the end. It's just something I've I've observed having been

872
00:50:26,119 --> 00:50:28,639
in this culture for a large portion of my life.

873
00:50:29,519 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 3: So I found it. It's mel Tappin'. He published a book,

874
00:50:34,079 --> 00:50:38,480
this book Survival Guns, in nineteen seventy six. His recommendation

875
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:42,800
is literally twenty nine plus guns to be quote, properly

876
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,599
prepared during a survival situation, but is just nuts and

877
00:50:47,039 --> 00:50:51,000
there's huge amounts of repetition, like you know, m one

878
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:53,960
a rifle. But then he explores all the other thirty

879
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:57,519
calibers because they're real, real calibers and you have to

880
00:50:57,519 --> 00:51:00,440
have a nineteen eleven and forty five ACP you know,

881
00:51:00,639 --> 00:51:03,920
very dated stuff. And it's just like that stuff is

882
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,000
like that's pretty absurd, and what what he's really talking

883
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:11,039
about is like, uh, and it's four hundred and eighty pages.

884
00:51:11,679 --> 00:51:14,280
So what he's doing is he's nerding out about guns

885
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,599
and like gun accessories and making it sound like you

886
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:21,599
need that to like quote unquote survive. That's pretty goofy.

887
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:24,599
Like I I think like you could do you can

888
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,079
easily make the argument that you can get away with

889
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:32,639
like five guns on the on the high end. And

890
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:35,679
the fact that people don't think about this that practical

891
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,880
like moving around having a pistol, uh is is goofy.

892
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,960
So here's an here's an example of that. You know

893
00:51:43,079 --> 00:51:46,440
what I've I've talked about like, uh, you know stuff

894
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:49,719
people I know who did stuff in other countries. And

895
00:51:50,800 --> 00:51:55,559
one of these fellows, for example, was doing work where

896
00:51:55,599 --> 00:51:58,840
he was essentially going in and out of like semi

897
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:05,480
hostile area, and he had a silenced twenty two pistol. Well,

898
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:09,039
you had a twenty two automatic with a removable suppressor,

899
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,599
and then the muzzle thread had an extension for mounting

900
00:52:14,679 --> 00:52:17,840
the suppressor so that when you looked at it, you

901
00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:22,519
didn't see the thread threaded areas sticking out of this

902
00:52:22,639 --> 00:52:26,000
like fairly short twenty two automatic, because you know, that's

903
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:30,320
a big indicator. It's a suppressor. And so he could

904
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:34,360
carry this thing basically in a pocket or stash it anywhere.

905
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,280
And then he had this small suppressor for it, and

906
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:42,119
he carried a fragmentation grenade as well as well as

907
00:52:42,159 --> 00:52:45,280
just a utility knife. But that was his like standard

908
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,159
load out. And the idea was, well, it's not perfect,

909
00:52:50,199 --> 00:52:53,719
but I can actually carry it, I can hide it.

910
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:58,920
It might pass a crappy search. I can stuff if

911
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,719
I popped the slide off and disassemble it just right

912
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,079
and put it in with like photography kit, you know,

913
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,920
I can get away with my I work for like

914
00:53:09,039 --> 00:53:14,239
Time magazine as a nature photographer cover right there. There's

915
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,719
all these different ways that you have to think about

916
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,519
this stuff, and like walking around like Jay said, with

917
00:53:19,559 --> 00:53:22,320
a plate carrier or a chest rig and a full

918
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,519
size rifle, like a lot of the time is the

919
00:53:25,559 --> 00:53:28,039
exact opposite of what you want to be doing if

920
00:53:28,079 --> 00:53:31,440
you have to go into town, you know, because if

921
00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:33,679
you think about it, people running around in the woods

922
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:36,639
is a big problem. And frankly, if you live in

923
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:42,599
a rural area and you have a community of organized guys,

924
00:53:42,599 --> 00:53:45,119
one of your biggest problems is going to be randos.

925
00:53:45,159 --> 00:53:48,880
Just like I'm driving into the woods to survive. You know,

926
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,719
It's like that is not a plan and you are

927
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:54,840
not welcome unless like there's someone in this community that

928
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:55,920
can vouch for you.

929
00:53:57,039 --> 00:54:03,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, the uh, the whole idea of oh the this

930
00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:05,800
person from the city. Now this person from the city

931
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,119
may originally have been from from a rural area knows

932
00:54:09,159 --> 00:54:12,119
how to take care of themselves. But yeah, that is

933
00:54:12,159 --> 00:54:15,480
something to consider when you are in a rural area

934
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:19,679
that you know, if if something really bad happens, you're

935
00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:23,320
going to have to deal with people infiltrating. You may

936
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,239
also people, you know, if you live in like I

937
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:30,079
live in an agricultural area, so I'm talking about chicken houses,

938
00:54:30,519 --> 00:54:33,159
cattle things like that. People may get the idea, Oh,

939
00:54:33,199 --> 00:54:35,920
if I need to feed myself, that's where I need

940
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,920
to go. That's something you have to watch for. But

941
00:54:38,519 --> 00:54:41,719
that's another thing about community is you know, who do

942
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:42,440
you have around you?

943
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:43,119
Speaker 3: Who do you know?

944
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:47,880
Speaker 1: Who can you you know, like Mike Shelby talks about

945
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,639
the Area study, doing an area study to know, Like

946
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:54,199
immediately when I heard about the Area Study and I

947
00:54:54,199 --> 00:54:57,280
started looking into it, the first thing I thought was, Okay,

948
00:54:58,039 --> 00:55:00,320
I know what my community is like, and of how

949
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,320
to get into my community. What how many roads are

950
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:09,599
there into my town? And where are the bridges? Because

951
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:11,960
if somebody has to drive over a bridge to get

952
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,159
into my town and that bridge is not functioning, you

953
00:55:16,159 --> 00:55:20,480
know that's I mean, and that sounds like retarded, but

954
00:55:20,679 --> 00:55:23,159
you know that's like your worst case scenario is like

955
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:29,039
you do not want hordes of friggin sub continentals and

956
00:55:29,639 --> 00:55:33,000
you know, subcontinentals that may have been or you know,

957
00:55:33,199 --> 00:55:35,880
people who may have been whose families may have been

958
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,960
imported a few hundred years ago, who are not friendly

959
00:55:40,079 --> 00:55:44,000
to two people whose skin is lighter than theirs, you

960
00:55:44,039 --> 00:55:48,559
may want to be able to prevent them from getting

961
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:49,559
in you.

962
00:55:49,519 --> 00:55:52,519
Speaker 3: Know, bridges and mountain passes are your friend.

963
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:56,119
Speaker 1: And the you know. Then you also have to deal

964
00:55:56,159 --> 00:55:58,199
with the fact that if you live like in the South,

965
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:04,760
there are already people here who maybe you know historically

966
00:56:05,119 --> 00:56:08,280
have have an extra grind. Well, how do you deal

967
00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,280
with them immediately? I mean, these are things that just

968
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,360
take into consideration. And when it comes down to it,

969
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,639
the longer you're I think, the longer you're in the

970
00:56:18,679 --> 00:56:20,559
gun community. And I know we have to cut this

971
00:56:20,599 --> 00:56:23,440
because Carl has to go, but I think the longer

972
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,360
you're in the gun community, you start to realize guns

973
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:29,760
are not your primary concern when it comes to the

974
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:33,679
kind of scenarios we're talking about the people.

975
00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 3: It's the people. It's the people.

976
00:56:35,199 --> 00:56:38,639
Speaker 1: Around you and what you know, what resources you know

977
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,800
you have in your area that you can tap into.

978
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:47,079
Speaker 2: Well, and it's two. You're completely correct, Pete. The point

979
00:56:47,159 --> 00:56:53,639
is you need to be able to affect a localized

980
00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:58,159
monopoly on violence. So you need to have something because otherwise,

981
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:00,679
you know, you are inviting yourself to victimized.

982
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:01,519
Speaker 1: Uh.

983
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:06,119
Speaker 2: But getting from like zero to one is the operative

984
00:57:06,159 --> 00:57:09,440
part there. Having something, you know, something that is you know,

985
00:57:09,519 --> 00:57:12,920
capable and reliable and can be repaired and dependent on

986
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:17,800
is what matters. But as we've said over and over again,

987
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:20,199
going from one to five, going from one to forty,

988
00:57:21,559 --> 00:57:24,199
that pales in comparison with the other you know, kind

989
00:57:24,199 --> 00:57:28,079
of like less sexy, less interesting things. And you know

990
00:57:28,119 --> 00:57:30,800
a large part of that is determining like okay, as

991
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:33,159
you guys have said, you know what, where do you

992
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,880
live or are the things around you? Assuming you're in

993
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,639
an urban place, well, how do you do you think

994
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:42,199
you should leave? If so to where? When is the

995
00:57:42,239 --> 00:57:44,840
time to pull the ripcord? Where are you going? Who

996
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,480
are you going to? Like all of these things are

997
00:57:47,719 --> 00:57:49,519
you know, real and relevant things to mention?

998
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: Are you bugging?

999
00:57:50,679 --> 00:57:52,519
Speaker 1: Are you bugging? Are you bugging out? Or are you

1000
00:57:52,519 --> 00:57:53,159
bugging in?

1001
00:57:53,599 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1002
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, as you used to read on you know, every

1003
00:57:55,599 --> 00:57:58,199
forum ten years ago, right, talking about that. But it's

1004
00:57:58,280 --> 00:58:01,239
it's something to think about because the point of prepping

1005
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:03,679
is to have a plan. And if the plan is

1006
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,039
just well, I've got mine in your you know, one

1007
00:58:07,039 --> 00:58:10,599
point eight acre you know, suburban lot, it's like, well, okay,

1008
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:15,119
like do you really for how long? You know, like

1009
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,199
it's and I say this as someone who's not you know,

1010
00:58:18,559 --> 00:58:20,599
who's not one of these you know, the bombs are

1011
00:58:20,599 --> 00:58:22,559
coming kind of guys. But to say, like, if you are,

1012
00:58:23,039 --> 00:58:26,000
you know, weigh that with appropriate seriousness, I think is

1013
00:58:26,039 --> 00:58:27,719
how I should conclude that thought.

1014
00:58:29,039 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: All right, let's end this with we can do this

1015
00:58:31,519 --> 00:58:33,920
real quick so Carl can get out of here. If

1016
00:58:34,000 --> 00:58:39,880
you're just talking about for purely for safety's sake, recommend

1017
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:45,360
one rifle brand and one handgun brand each of you.

1018
00:58:46,599 --> 00:58:50,519
Speaker 2: Uh, here's what I will recommend. Ar fifteen brands are

1019
00:58:50,599 --> 00:58:52,920
kind of fake, not to say that they don't exist,

1020
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:57,039
but you your best bet if you're poor is to

1021
00:58:57,159 --> 00:59:00,679
buy a separate what they call an upper and lower.

1022
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:03,599
There's some tax reasons for that. You're saving yourself a

1023
00:59:03,599 --> 00:59:06,920
couple hundred bucks. Putting them together is dead nuts easy.

1024
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,719
You just clip them together. So find a fully finished

1025
00:59:10,760 --> 00:59:17,119
lower arrow and Aero Precision is still technically in business.

1026
00:59:17,679 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 3: For how long.

1027
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 2: Who knows. You can get their stuff on fire sale.

1028
00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:25,320
They make very competent, capable lowers. They work, even PSA

1029
00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,239
on the extreme budget end. They make lowers that work.

1030
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,639
You might have to go through it and check everything's tightened,

1031
00:59:31,679 --> 00:59:36,480
but it'll be fine. As far as uppers. You can

1032
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:39,599
go to a company like Ballistic Advantage. They're not fancy.

1033
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:42,519
They work great. If you're looking for something a little

1034
00:59:42,559 --> 00:59:45,320
bit spend year, but you can depend on basically forever

1035
00:59:46,239 --> 00:59:50,960
BCM Bravo Company Manufacturing. They are the goo to This

1036
00:59:51,119 --> 00:59:54,679
exact recipe will be recommended to you on every forum

1037
00:59:54,719 --> 00:59:58,000
on the internet, not because it's interesting, but because it

1038
00:59:58,079 --> 01:00:02,000
is a great place to start. If you like it, great,

1039
01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:04,599
you keep it. If not, you'll know why you don't

1040
01:00:04,679 --> 01:00:07,920
like it. You can change that in the future. As

1041
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,559
far as the operative options to look for, get no options.

1042
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:14,519
Sixteen inch barrel, mid length gas. You will never think

1043
01:00:14,519 --> 01:00:17,079
about it again. It will work great. Do not listen

1044
01:00:17,119 --> 01:00:22,119
to autismos. As far as a handgun, get something in

1045
01:00:22,199 --> 01:00:25,559
kind of the compact range, like fifteen rounds. You can

1046
01:00:26,159 --> 01:00:28,519
use it as a bedside gun. You can conceal carry it.

1047
01:00:28,800 --> 01:00:33,000
As far as brand man, the patents on glocks are

1048
01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:35,440
running out, so you can get not a glock from

1049
01:00:35,519 --> 01:00:39,239
tons of different companies. Literally go to a gun store,

1050
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:42,599
find something that fits your hand, write down what gun

1051
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:44,440
that is, and then go on the internet and find

1052
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:47,360
the best deal you can. Dude, as long as it's

1053
01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:49,880
from a company you've heard of, it's not going to

1054
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,960
be bad. Like really like bad guns don't really exist

1055
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:58,239
anymore from reputable companies. I know there are exceptions, but like, dude,

1056
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,480
it's a boring answer, but like you'll find some then you're.

1057
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 3: Like I, I overall agree there are there are some

1058
01:01:05,199 --> 01:01:12,119
states with now have magazine restrictions and things of that

1059
01:01:12,239 --> 01:01:14,920
nature that will be part of your calculus when when

1060
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:19,199
you're looking at h at guns. Uh. The other the

1061
01:01:19,239 --> 01:01:23,519
one thing I will say regarding that element is that

1062
01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:28,599
you know, magazines can be acquired, uh, you know the glock.

1063
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,519
You know, standard capacity magazine is not something that's hard

1064
01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:37,800
to find. Uh. There there are ways to do that theoretically,

1065
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,239
and you might move in the future, and it'd be

1066
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,760
kind of goofy to dive into a paradigm you know

1067
01:01:44,199 --> 01:01:48,280
that is made irrelevant, you know, by by moving. But

1068
01:01:48,679 --> 01:01:50,880
that is something that you have to consider. Overall, though

1069
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:53,679
I agree completely with Jay on the on the rifle,

1070
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:58,480
uh the rifle argument, like you don't you don't have

1071
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:03,000
to go nuts. I would also say that there I'll

1072
01:02:03,000 --> 01:02:05,519
go out of my way to say that a pump

1073
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:13,519
shotgun as a defensive weapon is vastly overrated unless it's

1074
01:02:14,519 --> 01:02:17,440
you know, not just a sporter that you're chopping down

1075
01:02:17,519 --> 01:02:20,159
like that was like twenty five years ago. That was

1076
01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:23,840
the recommendation. You can get a perfectly good over the counter,

1077
01:02:25,079 --> 01:02:29,559
like decent defensive shotgun. But I honestly think in AR

1078
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:35,719
fifteen is way more, way more relevant and useful and

1079
01:02:35,800 --> 01:02:37,880
easier to shoot for the average person. A lot of

1080
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:41,199
people get twelve gages and find out that oh, like

1081
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:44,000
the stock is too long and it knocks the hell

1082
01:02:44,039 --> 01:02:47,519
out of me, or they don't really understand the ammunition

1083
01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:51,039
and it's extremely expensive and they're not going to actually

1084
01:02:51,079 --> 01:02:55,000
practice with it, so you know, and it isn't a

1085
01:02:55,079 --> 01:03:00,239
magical death ray. It's you still have to aim. So yeah, yeah,

1086
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:05,239
I agree overall with Jay, Like handgun almost almost doesn't matter.

1087
01:03:05,280 --> 01:03:10,480
As long as it's a current make like nine milimeter automatic,

1088
01:03:10,519 --> 01:03:11,880
I think you're probably fine.

1089
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 2: Pretty much. Anything that costs between three hundred and five

1090
01:03:15,559 --> 01:03:19,280
hundred dollars is nine millimeter, is in a compact size,

1091
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,039
is functionally it's the same gun like, not literally, but

1092
01:03:24,079 --> 01:03:27,360
from your for your purposes as a beginner, doesn't matter.

1093
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:30,280
Just find one you think is neat and you want

1094
01:03:30,280 --> 01:03:33,960
to shoot. That'll get you through the wanting to learn

1095
01:03:34,000 --> 01:03:34,920
how to use it. Phase.

1096
01:03:35,719 --> 01:03:37,519
Speaker 3: And if you're a weirdo and you want like a

1097
01:03:38,440 --> 01:03:41,960
VZ sixty one Scorpion semi automatic or something, just go

1098
01:03:42,079 --> 01:03:43,840
for it. That's fine. That's fine too.

1099
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:49,559
Speaker 1: I would say, like if you if you want to

1100
01:03:49,559 --> 01:03:53,039
stay in the budget range of like an AR like

1101
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:55,480
the Smith and West N M and P series is fine.

1102
01:03:55,800 --> 01:03:56,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're fine.

1103
01:03:57,159 --> 01:03:59,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, go up if you want to go you know,

1104
01:04:00,000 --> 01:04:03,559
if you want to double that Cult sixty nine to twenty,

1105
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:08,360
kind of hard to go wrong with that handgun. I mean,

1106
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:13,800
I think, like Jay said, glock knockoffs everywhere. If you

1107
01:04:13,840 --> 01:04:16,880
want to get a glock, I mean that the magazines

1108
01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,000
are cheap as hell. If you want to go a

1109
01:04:19,039 --> 01:04:25,440
little higher end like H and K USP Compact nine

1110
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:28,800
millimeter or the p cz.

1111
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:32,559
Speaker 2: P Tense, they just redid the line. The old ones

1112
01:04:32,599 --> 01:04:36,119
are like three hundred bucks for very very good, brand

1113
01:04:36,199 --> 01:04:37,599
new handguns.

1114
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 3: They have extremely good triggers for a striker fired pistol.

1115
01:04:41,639 --> 01:04:46,280
So yeah, that's a good idea. Also, police surplus is

1116
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:50,400
another consideration if you go online. To Pete's point, like

1117
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,440
I wouldn't buy a cult like a new cult AR,

1118
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,719
I just wouldn't do it, But like a police surplus

1119
01:04:56,719 --> 01:05:00,760
cult ar is probably totally fine, and the prices are

1120
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:03,880
extremely reasonable, Like you can get a nice one for

1121
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,039
six or seven hundred dollars plus fees.

1122
01:05:06,079 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I see, I see.

1123
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 2: It's probably haunted if you get one that's beat up.

1124
01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,239
Speaker 1: I see like used rock rivers for like five hundred

1125
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:21,119
bucks at gun shows now, so oh yeah you can.

1126
01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,119
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these are all ubiquitous now. It's not like

1127
01:05:24,159 --> 01:05:28,119
the old days where like only only cult was making ars,

1128
01:05:28,159 --> 01:05:30,639
plus like Olympic Arms or like one or two other

1129
01:05:30,719 --> 01:05:35,280
weirdo companies. So it's they're just everywhere now. So might

1130
01:05:35,320 --> 01:05:37,079
as well I'll.

1131
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:38,719
Speaker 1: Let you guys go, I know, Carlos to get out

1132
01:05:38,719 --> 01:05:41,639
of here, do plugs real quick, Carl go first.

1133
01:05:41,599 --> 01:05:45,519
Speaker 3: Uh carldall dot substack dot com, k A r L

1134
01:05:46,199 --> 01:05:49,480
d A h L dot substack dot com. That's where

1135
01:05:49,519 --> 01:05:53,559
I put my articles, effort posts linked to my books

1136
01:05:53,840 --> 01:05:59,960
and uh links to podcasts. Thanks man, of course, mister bird.

1137
01:06:01,199 --> 01:06:03,599
Speaker 2: Sure you can find me on the Jay Burden Show.

1138
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:08,000
Carl and I have sort of an informal running live

1139
01:06:08,039 --> 01:06:11,599
show once a week or so. You can check that

1140
01:06:11,639 --> 01:06:13,840
out if you want more gun autism. But Jay Burden

1141
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,079
Show hour long interviews five days a week. You can

1142
01:06:17,079 --> 01:06:19,320
find those. I mean, I'll be honest anywhere you listen

1143
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:21,119
to podcasts. But thanks for having me on PETE.

1144
01:06:21,119 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: I appreciate it, of course, and thanks for doing this

1145
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:26,159
last minute guys. I just thought it would be be

1146
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:29,039
a fun idea, so take care yep.