Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is
not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Same to realize I need to step up and be
a better mom.
Speaker 3: I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,
but you're not going to get the opportunity for a
long long time.
Speaker 4: Not only is the steak and to have custy of
your children.
Speaker 5: You're going to.
Speaker 3: Jail today, if I have my way, You're going as
an accomplished to murder.
Speaker 6: Some knights start with laughter and with sirens. No one
sees it coming until it's too late. Some knights are
simply born under a bad sign. You likely won't even
feel it at first. The music's loud, the drinks are flowing,
and it all feels harmless enough. But violence rarely announces itself.
It rarely sends an R s v P with a
self addressed, stamped envelope. Often it builds quietly, bubbling beneath
the surface until it does what all bubbles do, and
it bursts without warning. And when it does, the people
who pay the price are rarely the ones looking for trouble.
They're the ones standing too close when the world suddenly
tilts towards chaos.
Speaker 7: Okay, how many times have been stabbed?
Speaker 5: I watched it happen.
Speaker 8: The guy had been He stabbed him in the shoulder.
Speaker 7: Say that he has.
Speaker 6: On April twenty third, twenty twenty three, at about three am,
deputies from the Hawking County Sheriff's Office were dispatched to
a remote cabin talked deep in the woods of Sugar Growth,
a lovely village in the wonderful state of Ohio, which
we love so much on this program, namely because of
all the wonderful and colorful people that lived there, had
all of the wonderful content they bring us. When deputies
finally arrived to their destination, they found a group of
young adults gathered near the front porch of the cabin.
They were visibly shaken and clustered around a young man
sprawled on the ground. The young man was covered in blood.
He had been stabbed several times, and time was running out.
Speaker 5: Charlie, yes he is.
Speaker 9: Billion, I was back.
Speaker 6: Deputies learned that the young man's name was Charlie. While
waiting for paramedics to arrive, his friends hovered close, supplying
makeshift bandages and holding pressure on his stab wounds. They
urged Charlie to hang on and keep fighting.
Speaker 5: You got it, You're so tough.
Speaker 4: Come on, Charlie, Yeah, you got it.
Speaker 2: On, Charlie, so good, Come on, you're so strong about.
Speaker 10: How strong you're gonna be.
Speaker 4: You're the strongest person I know.
Speaker 11: Anybody can make this like this, it's huge.
Speaker 3: There we goes squats here.
Speaker 12: Yeah, come on, Charlie.
Speaker 5: I'm so proud.
Speaker 13: I'm so proud.
Speaker 14: You're knowing so good.
Speaker 15: Keep pushing for us, all right, model to the neck,
you guys, I'm not quite sure he has seals.
Speaker 6: After several agonizing minutes, paramedics arrived on scene and Charlie
was gurneyed into an ambulance.
Speaker 4: How don't you shout?
Speaker 9: Nine sty went one two thirty four five one on
his back, next six.
Speaker 16: Six thats two to the right, john slash year, one
of the neck, one of the.
Speaker 7: Top part of his like his trap, one of the
boys said, and one on the back.
Speaker 6: Charlie was in critical condition, and he was soon airlifted
to the nearest trauma center, where doctors and surgeons would
attempt to save his life. Back at the cabin, deputies
began the grim task of piecing together what had gone
so violently wrong?
Speaker 7: A wait us the stabbing.
Speaker 4: I saw everything you saying.
Speaker 7: So who else it? You? Two?
Speaker 17: Just you two?
Speaker 16: Okay, all right, I got some detectives coming.
Speaker 6: Roughly fifteen to twenty potential witnesses remained at the scene,
all of them in their early twenties. Deputies corralled the
group around a nearby fire pit and waited for detectives
to arrive. When the inside of the cabin was searched,
deputies found all the markings of a fun college like party.
Decorations hung from the ceiling, beer bottles littered every surface,
The kitchen sink overflowed with dishes, and a table in
the living room showed signs of a recently played drinking game.
Back outside, the first detectives pulled up and questioning began.
Speaker 18: So, first of all, what time did you get here?
Speaker 19: I got here yesterday, okay, so.
Speaker 18: It's now almost six o'clock on Sunday mornings.
Speaker 10: I got here on Friday Friday. I helped decorate and
set up.
Speaker 18: Okay, So when you say, it's a great setip, but
what was this?
Speaker 19: Uh his twenty first, twenty thirty birthday?
Speaker 18: Okay, so this is Dalton's twenty third birthday.
Speaker 6: The two story wood cabin had been rented for the
weekend by twenty three year old Dalton Flag as part
of his birthday celebration.
Speaker 10: All right, so this is your birthday party? Yes, okay,
so walk me. How long have you been here this year?
Speaker 18: The whole weekend? Yeah, we got here Friday like four pm,
I think it was.
Speaker 6: Dalton arrived at the cabin that Friday evening with his
girlfriend and roommate. The three of them started setting up,
decorating the space and anticipation of what they hoped would
be a carefree weekend of partying with friends. Naturally, Dalton
had sent out the invites, including one to twenty two
year old Charles Starner, known to most as Charlie or Chuck.
Charlie was a manager at a small pizzeria where he
employed several of the friends, He was engaged and the
father of a nine month old son. That night, Charlie
showed up to a party with his fiance and two
close friends.
Speaker 3: So you get here tonight around seven pm?
Speaker 10: Okay, you wrote down with Charlie, Caleb and Rachel. Okay,
what happens when you guys get here? Everything is fine
and dandy.
Speaker 18: Everything was fine.
Speaker 20: That kid wasn't even here when I first got at
your ead inchuke for the kids. That step Charlie wasn't
here for hours when I was here, and everything was.
Speaker 10: Fine, okay.
Speaker 6: The atmosphere at the cabin was everything you'd expect from
a typical college aged party. People were drinking heavily, some
smoking weed, and a few others were openly using cocaine.
The hot tub was in use, drinking games were underway,
and everyone seemed to be having a great time until
suddenly they weren't.
Speaker 18: It was pretty chill. Then, how did we get to this? Honestly,
I don't know where were you at.
Speaker 21: I was inside and I just heard people screaming, so
I ran out to look because obviously I'm nowsing, but
me and Ryan like heard them yelling, so we ran
out to check it out. And he was just fighting, which, uh,
it was just a bunch of the guys.
Speaker 18: So there's more than two people fighting.
Speaker 21: It wasn't really fighting. Everyone was just yelling at each other.
Speaker 17: And then.
Speaker 21: We went inside because we didn't really think anything of it.
Then we heard a bunch of screaming and I came
out and that's when I saw, like the guy.
Speaker 18: I don't even know who he was, So the guy
you're talking about, the person who was hurt.
Speaker 21: Or the person that was hurt. I see him where
I think his neck, I don't know. I just seemed
blood like dripping down him and that freaked me out
and I took off running into the woods because I
was scared.
Speaker 6: One of the first challenges detective's face was that not
everyone at the party had witnessed the stabbing. To make
matters worse, many of the attendees were strangers to one another,
having met for the first time that night. When questioned,
several had trouble recalling names, making the investigation difficult to untangle.
Speaker 18: Do you know who did this or were you told?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 19: I know his name, okay, Isaac Pince, Isaac Paince, I
don't know how to spell it.
Speaker 18: He's the one. Everyone said it. He was the one
that drove the car, pulled the car out of here.
I don't know what kind of car. Will see him leave.
I'll see him peel out with the car. Who's anybody
with him?
Speaker 7: I think it's fiance.
Speaker 6: Despite the challenges, detectives managed to determine who had been stabbed,
and perhaps more importantly, who had done the stabbing. Over
and over, the partygoers pointed to one person, a young
man named Isaac Pence.
Speaker 10: So you guys are hanging out. When does Isaac arrive?
Speaker 20: I couldn't tell you, like an exact time.
Speaker 22: And if I didn't guess, i'd.
Speaker 10: Say the weaven who's he arrived with?
Speaker 18: And is that his fiance?
Speaker 10: I think I think their may engaged.
Speaker 7: Maybe I'm non positive on that work, Okay, I.
Speaker 18: Know the data for sure.
Speaker 6: Twenty year old Isaac Pence arrived at the cabin with
his fiance, Sabra Flag, who was the sister of the
birthday host, Dalton Flag. Sabra was the only reason Isaac
had been invited in the first place, and it didn't
take long for detectives to learn that Isaac and Dalton
had a rocky history.
Speaker 18: How he and Isaac been together like four years? So
do you know Isaac?
Speaker 19: Yeah?
Speaker 7: Who is he?
Speaker 18: What do you mean? Play good person? I'm a good person.
Speaker 19: When he's not drinking.
Speaker 18: Yes, when he's drinking Isaac was drinking.
Speaker 19: Yes, and time he drinks.
Speaker 18: He's very violent, has Isaac and never had bad blood before?
Speaker 5: Yes?
Speaker 19: Because he just he doesn't treat Saber well at all. Yeah,
but they never got along.
Speaker 23: And I told like, I like Saber wanted to come,
and Dalon's like, Isaac would only allow her to come
if he came with her, And Dalton was like, not
okay with it, but he said, as long as he's
not drinking.
Speaker 19: But as soon as he came to the house he
was drinking.
Speaker 18: In trouble before for drinking for one.
Speaker 19: I know he's on probation for something he's not supposed
to be drinking, and he is.
Speaker 6: By nearly all accounts, Isaac Pence had a reputation for
being a violet drunk. He had only just recently been
released from jail for assaulting Sabra and Dalton's mother. Dalton
knew Isaac was trouble. He didn't want him at the party,
especially not in a secluded cabin in the woods, but
to keep peace with his sister stir, Dalton gave in
and allowed Isaac to attend. That would turn out to
be a grave mistake.
Speaker 10: Who was Isaac West? Who did he sleep with?
Speaker 16: My sister?
Speaker 24: Sabrify She stays with Isaac and his parents, So she
lives with Isaac and his parents and Isaac's had issues
in the past. He's put his hands on my sister,
and he's just literally went to jail three months ago
for putting his hands on my mom.
Speaker 10: How old was Isaac?
Speaker 12: Twenty twenty one?
Speaker 6: By this point, detectives had started to piece together the
key relationships and some of the night's events, but this
information hadn't come quickly. Hours had passed and partygoers were
now sobering up. Many were growing restless and increasingly impatient
with the process.
Speaker 5: I wanted to fucking go home. I've been sitting here
for fucking hours. I'm freezing. We're not I get it.
I am fucking old as fun.
Speaker 7: You understand it, bro?
Speaker 5: Why are you? Why are you choking?
Speaker 12: Why are you choking?
Speaker 5: Why do you get your record recordish? Hey, records that
have a fuck?
Speaker 4: You're choking?
Speaker 7: Now?
Speaker 6: That guy was taking a jail for disrupting the scene
of an emergency. And the interviews continued. As detectives continue
to ask questions, they eventually learned how the party was
turned into a scene of chaos and violence.
Speaker 10: All right, so what started this whole argument?
Speaker 24: So everyone, like most people were leaving, Isaac was beyond
drugging and he was calling everyone like names. I don't
even like, I don't even know why he was acting
where he was because everybody was leaving and everything, like.
Speaker 18: Everything we roll done.
Speaker 24: He started acting, pushing other people, me and my o
over there and say heyboy, like just see he's like
you're fine, You're good, like just you're good.
Speaker 25: Just leave.
Speaker 20: Like from the leave he got super mad and they
started to raise their voices at each other.
Speaker 18: For some reason, he pushed a rising really hard, like into.
Speaker 20: A table, okay, And then that was when things like
really escalated because now Dalton was super mad because his
girlfriend got pushed and they.
Speaker 10: Were just like screaming at each other.
Speaker 19: He didn't want to leave.
Speaker 12: He came charging, pushed me.
Speaker 13: On the ground and charged at Dalton, and then that's
when Dalton came back at him, and everyone pulled him off,
and then he started coming at everyone else in the house,
and then that's when.
Speaker 19: It went outside.
Speaker 6: Several witnesses explained that the violence started when Dalton asked
Isaac to leave. In response, Isaac shoved Dalton's girlfriend, arising,
sending her crashing to the ground. The moment people saw
Isaac put his hands on a woman, the atmosphere snapped,
voices exploded in anger, and the confrontation spilled outside onto
the driveway of the cabin.
Speaker 10: What happens when they get outside?
Speaker 13: There was a group of people telling him to leave.
We told him we were about to call nine one
one if he didn't leave. Everyone say no, no, his or
his baby arms say.
Speaker 7: No, no't call nine one one.
Speaker 11: He's on probation.
Speaker 12: He's gonna get in trouble.
Speaker 6: A crowd quickly formed. A large group surrounded Isaac, telling
him to leave. At the same time, a smaller group
held Dalton back, trying to stop him from launching into
a fistfight with Isaac like I was trying to.
Speaker 18: Come out and Cray and all them me like it's
not worth it. Just he's leaving. Cray Yeah, crazy right?
Speaker 10: There is that real name?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 18: I think it's like c One.
Speaker 6: Sorry to interrupt the flow of the story here, but
I have a question, ask what the hell's going on
with the names at this party? Cray, Sabra, Horizon, Teca,
and Cinnamon, just to name a few.
Speaker 1: What the hell?
Speaker 6: What kind of dope smoking bead wearing crystal charging music festival,
attending double wide living minimum wage earning ANTIFA supporting wannabe
hippie parents named these dumbass children, we gotta set up
your kin for success with a name like Cinnamon. By
the way, Sure that'll keep her off the pole. Next
up on stage, Cinneamon. Anyway, Dalton was being held back
by his friends who were telling him not to fight Isaac,
while several others were shouting at Isaac, telling him to
get into his car and pedal is a little lass
out of there?
Speaker 10: What did you see or observe from that time forward?
Speaker 13: A whole bunch of pushing okay, shouting, yelling, pushing, yelling,
shoving okay, And then what happened?
Speaker 18: He was essentially carried to his car by life three.
Speaker 22: Or four people trying to get him to like there
wasn't no him wanting to leave like he was.
Speaker 10: Definitely, it was more like a forceful.
Speaker 22: Like he had the yeah, like there was multiple guys
grabbing him and trying to shove him in his own car,
trying to get him to just be gone.
Speaker 10: Okay, and where.
Speaker 20: Is yes in the car.
Speaker 10: With him into the passenger seat okay.
Speaker 6: Several guys dragged Isaac to the driver's side of his
car at about the same time, Isaac's fiance Sabra, hopped
in the passenger seat of the same car.
Speaker 26: So at this point they're in the car and there's
a couple of people like banging on the windows. He
gets mad and opens and he opened the door, and
Charlie was one of the people that were.
Speaker 18: Trying to get him in the car and get him
to leave, and he.
Speaker 20: Just happened to be the guy in front of the
driver's door, just grabbing him for whatever reason and started
stabbing him.
Speaker 18: Like it was like six times too. I saw Charlie
fall to the ground.
Speaker 10: Does he immediately get back in the car and leave?
Speaker 18: What?
Speaker 10: What's the next course of action?
Speaker 20: Just gets in his car, slams the door and spends tires,
drags up the drop one d was.
Speaker 18: Just so crazy.
Speaker 13: I walk inside and then I think, like ten minutes after,
they come out and he.
Speaker 12: Said he just stabbed him. He just stabbed him. What
is going on? What are you looking for? She's like,
Charlie just got stabbed.
Speaker 6: When Isaac was forced into his car, he reached into
the center console, pulled out a small work knife, grabbed
the nearest person and just started stabbing. I mean, that's
what I always do when I'm frustrated. His unlucky victim
was Charlie Starner. With no warning, Charlie was struck multiple times,
including potentially fatal stabs to his back and neck. He
collapsed to the ground, bleeding heavily, while Isaac slammed his
car door shut and sped off with Sabra, you know,
like the hummus.
Speaker 8: I was standing up for a porch, and I watched
him get stabbed right there next to my truck, and uh,
Jimmy and the guy who's covered in blood. He carried
him over here to the other side of my truck.
Speaker 12: Where the big pull of blood is.
Speaker 8: And I opened up the back of my truck and
started rummaging through and grabbing my mid kids.
Speaker 6: Among the guests at the party was a young woman
named Amanda Chapman who had a background in ems. When
Charlie went down, Amanda rushed to her truck, grabbed a
medical kit, and began doing everything she could to help.
Speaker 10: Tonight was a story, and that was terrifying.
Speaker 26: I understand completely well, the two that were out here,
can you identify both of them?
Speaker 12: So Charlie is the one that I was of a
sternal reb on.
Speaker 10: I don't know the guy that was in the car of.
Speaker 12: That stabbed him. I guess his girls lost with him.
Speaker 8: Okay, everybody that's here right now, I really don't think
anything was malicious, but the dude who fled.
Speaker 10: Like was out to kill.
Speaker 6: Multiple people at the party called nine one one. As
they waited, they hovered helplessly around Charlie, watching Amanda and
a few others render what little aid they could. As
Charlie was bleeding out on the ground. Everyone hoped that
help would get there in time.
Speaker 18: Did Charlie say anything?
Speaker 7: I have.
Speaker 18: I heard no words come out of that man's mouth.
And that's what I think.
Speaker 7: That's what the most.
Speaker 18: Charlie conscious or unconscious for while he was conscious, I
couldn't be outside for the rest of it.
Speaker 7: I couldn't see to call his mom, let him, let.
Speaker 18: Him know what's going on. When Charlie was conscious, he
didn't say nothing.
Speaker 7: He didn't say nothing.
Speaker 18: He didn't say what happened.
Speaker 7: No, he couldn't, He couldn't, he couldn't. He was please No.
Speaker 6: While first responders were en route and throughout the rest
of the morning, Dalton's girlfriend exchanged text messages with Sabra,
who was presumably still sitting in the passenger seat next
to Isaac.
Speaker 26: Did you have any contact with the suspect or Saber
after they left here?
Speaker 12: She texted me, and I texted her back.
Speaker 10: Okay, what did the text me to say?
Speaker 13: She started two fifty six. I'm going to need my
shoes and my purse back.
Speaker 12: Hello. I need you to answer right now.
Speaker 10: Hello.
Speaker 12: I said, we have your shit. You'll get it tomorrow.
She said, I have to have it. What the hell
was that?
Speaker 7: Hah?
Speaker 13: His friends jumped him. I said, you're not getting it
till tomorrow. I said, you show up with you and Isaac.
It's all going to be bad.
Speaker 6: What stood out most about this text exchange is what
wasn't said. At no point did Saber ask how Charlie
was doing. Her only concern was retrieving her purse and
a few other meaningless belongings she'd left behind at the cabin.
Speaker 13: She said, I'm going to need my glasses, shoes, and
purse or 'all going to prison. She said, the key
to my goddamn work and if I don't get it back,
I'll call the fucking cops. And then she texts me
out four point thirty two. I need my shit, what's
going on.
Speaker 6: Once paramedics arrived, Charlie was quickly rushed to a trauma
center and prepared for emergency surgery. Back at the cabin,
detectives got to work interviewing witnesses, searching the scene, and
trying to understand exactly what had gone down. While doing this,
they got some interesting news.
Speaker 4: Right yeah, allegedly suspects on his way back here.
Speaker 7: It's awesome.
Speaker 4: So they went to the hotel room where sabers mam
is sang.
Speaker 10: She told him to get their shit and get out.
Speaker 5: And I don't know if she doesn't know if he's
coming back.
Speaker 10: To Tennis when he started or what.
Speaker 6: The detectives learned that Isaac Pence was still furious and
it was headed back to the cabin. Apparently stabbing someone
several times hadn't been enough for him. He wanted more blood.
He wanted to finish what he had started. In the
early morning hours of April twenty third, twenty twenty three,
twenty two year old Charlie Starner was clinging to his
life after being stabbed multiple times at a party at
a secluded rental cabin in the woods of Sugar Grove, Ohio.
And I mentioned how nice Ohio is at this time
of year. Ohio really is the heart of it all
when the heart isn't being stabbed, that is. As detectives
scrambled to make sense of this chaos, witness after witness
identified the attacker as twenty year old Isaac Pence. They
also warned police that Isaac wasn't done. Apparently he planned
a return to the cabin to finish what he started.
To prevent another wave of violence. Officers were posted at
the end of the cabin's driveway where they braced for
Isaac's return, but he never showed. By morning, police shifted
gears and went looking for him. They found Isaac fast
asleep at the home that he shared with his mother, stepfather,
two younger siblings, and his fiance, the infamous Sabra Flag.
Officers took both Isaac and Sabra into custody and began
questioning Isaac's mom.
Speaker 4: Do you normally keep their children on a regular Basela?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 5: And they go out and do whatever?
Speaker 4: Any history of drug us in abouse?
Speaker 22: No?
Speaker 4: How about alcohol, yes, between both of them or one of.
Speaker 7: Them her so much.
Speaker 4: But you know Isaac drinks just about every weekend.
Speaker 5: Would you say has anger issues?
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, totally, okay.
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes he does get really mad when he's drinking.
Speaker 6: When detectives arrived at Isaac's home, they were met with
a few surprises. First, they discovered that Isaac and Sabra
had two young children, a one year old and a
four month old. Neither of them seemed to be carrying
themselves like parents, are you surprised or are you starting
to recognize patterns yet? The day to day care of
the children fell mostly to Isaac's mother, who also informed
investigators that her son struggled with alcoholism and a history
of violent behavior.
Speaker 7: Nuh duh.
Speaker 5: How long have they lived here?
Speaker 4: Isaac's been here his whole life.
Speaker 5: Sabra has been here on and off for the last
two years. Three years.
Speaker 4: Is that about how long they've been together. They've been
together four years, four years?
Speaker 19: Okay.
Speaker 6: Once they gathered enough background information on Isaac and Sabra,
detectives turned their focus to the night of the stabbing.
They asked Isaac's parents what they knew about the party
at the cabin.
Speaker 12: Do you know where.
Speaker 4: Isaac and Sabra were at last night?
Speaker 3: There's no clue, Okay, do you know what time they
arrived back at the home.
Speaker 4: They showed up about five o'clock because they're working me
up beating on the door. Okay, so they were beaten
on the door. Arrived back here at about five am.
Did they say anything when they came in? Not really,
did you notice anything out of the norm. It just
seemed like they were like irritated and like mad.
Speaker 5: Okay.
Speaker 6: Another thing that took detectives by surprise was the state
of the home. You see, it was completely filthy. There
was trash thrown about everywhere, and the stench of urine
and dogshit was just oh overwhelming. Then again this was Ohio,
how long has your house.
Speaker 17: Been like this?
Speaker 18: So the scores, you know, a hole here there at
the wall, and trash and the order what I'm talking
trash in the house.
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, yeah, we've we've had a health time trying
to keep everything cleaned up since you know, we don't
have any health at all, and like I'm recuperating from
a heart attack. So we just had a heart attack
and I was the one that had I had a
tester erical and it's pemonia level in your house is ridiculous.
Speaker 6: Concerned by the smell detectives tested for ammonia levels inside
the home. The results were off the charts, which is
an extreme health risk, especially for children. When asked about it,
Isaac's parents pointed the finger squarely at Isaac and Sabra.
Speaker 9: But the whole doll thing that they've had that bed
roude the whole time that they've had that doll here.
They don't take it out to use the bathroom for
an elfandles just she's the bathroom everywhere.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 6: After removing Isaac and Sabra from their disgusting home, officers
transported both of them to the Sheriff's office. Once there,
Sabra was the first to be interviewed.
Speaker 2: My brother's the one who's through the party for his birthday, right, yes.
Speaker 5: For his birthday.
Speaker 2: Darlon's black and he I already talked it with him,
and I was like, you because they've you, my brother
Isaac have had some issues in the past, but they
were trying to get over.
Speaker 11: It because my brother wanted to be more involved in
my life. He wanted to be more involved in his
nephew's life.
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, he's.
Speaker 11: Part of my life, you know.
Speaker 7: I love them.
Speaker 11: I want to work things out with him. He's to
bothering both of my kids. So he was like, yeah,
this fine, you guys can come, you know, just no drama.
I was like, yeah, he's fine.
Speaker 2: He's probably not even drinking, and if he does, he's
all I want to drink a little bit because we.
Speaker 4: Have to go home.
Speaker 18: I have to open.
Speaker 6: Saber began her interview by explaining how she and Isaac
ended up at her brother Dalton's birthday party at the cabin.
She admitted Dalton didn't want Isaac there, but she had
convinced him that there would be no drama. That promise,
of course, was broken. Sabra went on to describe how
the night changed from fun and happy times to horrible,
bloody violence, and all of.
Speaker 2: A sudden, I hear this that, like, you know, arguing,
and I was like, oh my gosh, please, it's not
with Isaac.
Speaker 5: I go out and I hear like a bunch.
Speaker 7: Of different stories.
Speaker 2: Isaac and a few other people are saying that he
accidentally pushed Horizon, which is.
Speaker 11: My brother's girlfriend.
Speaker 2: Then my brother was sitting here saying he intentionally pushed her.
I don't think he intentionally pushed her. He's not the
type of person. He's not violent, especially with girls, so
I know he's not that type of person.
Speaker 11: And they're sitting here arguing.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk to Isaac to calm down, because
I'm like one of the only people that can coming down.
Speaker 11: I'm like, okay, let's just you.
Speaker 2: Know, if anything, let's just go in your car, sit
for like a couple of hours, and then he can
go home. And then they followed us outside. They all
start like like trying to fight Isaac all at the
same time. I don't know exactly who it was because
there were so many people, but I know that there
was like three or four people trying to fight Isaac
at the same time.
Speaker 6: Sabra's version of events clashed with just about every other witness.
According to her, Isaac wasn't the aggressor. He was the
victim back into a corner and forced to defend himself
against a group of guys just looking for a fight
out of nowhere. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2: And it was like ten guys, all my brother's friends,
and this guy I think his name is Clay.
Speaker 11: He pushed Isaac and Isaac got flying back into a
car and Isaac I don't know if he like pushed
him or back or what he did, but I tried.
Speaker 2: To intervene and I was like, and he's just trying
to protect himself.
Speaker 12: Like there's like ten guys jumping him.
Speaker 11: And I was like, I was like, it's not his soul.
Speaker 4: And somehow I.
Speaker 2: Fall and they were like trampling all over and I
have big bruise on my knee. And then I still
hear them fighting over here and Isaac he got in
the car and he goes, Saber.
Speaker 1: Come on, come on, come on.
Speaker 2: Then I got in the car and he drove off
because I think people were coming back at him.
Speaker 11: And he was like, OK, God, I'm done, and so
we just drove off.
Speaker 6: There was one glaring omission and Saber's story. Did you
catch it? I'll give you a hint. It has to
do with pointy things going stabby stabby. Weird how she
missed the most interesting part of the story, huh. Naturally,
detectives pressed her about this.
Speaker 2: I didn't even know someone got stabbed until way after
it left, and I was like, I think I sat
that dude.
Speaker 5: I think I stabbed him.
Speaker 11: I was like, what the heck do you mean he's like,
I think I stabbed him.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I like you literally
ran away, like not what you should do.
Speaker 6: Saber claimed she hadn't seen anyone get stabbed, and that
she only heard about it afterwards. She wasn't too curious
about it either. In fact, she doesn't seem to be
too curious about anything really. When asked where she and
Isaac went after fleeing the cabin, she said they made
a quick stop at a friend's house, someone named Justin,
before heading home.
Speaker 7: So when you were at Justin's house, what did you
guys do there?
Speaker 2: So we sed to self there to look at Isaac's car,
and then I went in and p our use of
afron and I came out and I was looking at
Isa's car with him and Justin.
Speaker 11: They smelled to Sarah and then we left and then
we went straight home.
Speaker 6: This brief stop at Justin's would eventually become an important
part of this case, but more on that later. After
questioning Sabra, detectives moved on to Isaac.
Speaker 7: Who you live there with my mom? Instead of do
I get a little brother? Litle's okay?
Speaker 16: Then Sabra and my two kids and my fielance.
Speaker 11: Okay, all right, And how old are your children?
Speaker 7: One is one and one is four months. How far
did you make it through school? About? I think eleventh grade?
Eleventh grade? Okay, did you get your ged or anything?
Speaker 22: Now?
Speaker 16: I went straight into concrete as sin as I turned eighteen,
and I wanted to go and get a different career.
Speaker 7: But every time I go, when I started different jobs.
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, well, just pull it off, pull off,
pull it off.
Speaker 7: Okay, so I'm wanting to at some point.
Speaker 6: Okay, Detective's got more background info from Isaac, this overachiever.
This criminal background wasn't extensive, but it was certainly concerning.
Speaker 7: Have you been in trouble or anything at all?
Speaker 16: Yeah, okay, for what I've got an assault change on
her mom, you know, assault charge on her mom.
Speaker 7: Yeah, agos out this month.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I cannot win with the family.
Speaker 6: I cannot win with this family, he said, after admitting
to an assault charge on his girlfriend's mom, you know,
his kid's grandma. He says this matter of factly and
completely un ironically. I swear you'll never convince a retard.
They're not a genius. Going forward, You'll start to see
a pattern here with Isaac. If you're smart enough to
see patterns. Nothing is ever his fault.
Speaker 5: So it sounds like you guys came up here for
a birthday party. Is that correct?
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was brother's birthday. Me and her brothers never
get along.
Speaker 16: Okay, it was in their whole time, and it's like,
this is a b idea I want to make her happy.
Speaker 7: It sounds like, you know, I will try to put
my PRIs on it. Let's go ahead and go. Okay,
we were there. Thing was good.
Speaker 16: Well, everything was completely fine, and we're having a good time.
Speaker 6: Isaac claimed that he didn't want to go to Dalton's
birthday party, but out of the goodness of his heart,
he decided that being there would make Saber happy. What
a selfless stand up guy he is.
Speaker 16: We're all seeing right here in the hallway, and someone
did pushing me, so I pushed him back. Well, Dunton
thought that I pushed his girlfriend wise, and so he
got all of his stuff. That's when everyone tried to
jump me. Well, I kind of know what I'm doing
a little bit, so I started throwing them to the side.
I went outside, and that's when they started trying to
him at me. It was all at once and so
I was just tossing to the side and they all
just kept going.
Speaker 7: So I went to my car. I shouldn't do her.
S Hey, if you want to go, then where you want.
Well they came and they got the.
Speaker 16: Hoss car and they took her sunglasses, I know, her
actual glasses, and her purse out trying to keep her
just stay.
Speaker 7: There, and I was like, well, with everything going on,
like I'm going to leave.
Speaker 6: Much like Sabra Isaac's version of events clashed with every
other witness. That's because absolutely no murder and the history
of mankind has ever started with a completely innocent dude
getting pushed and mobbed at a festive gathering for absolutely
no reason. But don't let common sense smack it across
the face.
Speaker 16: Once they started sitting there trying to bust the glass
to get to me, that's when I put out a knife.
Speaker 7: I was like, hey, you need back up, and they
didn't want listen. No one want to listen. So you
were in your car, So what did you do? Did
you open the car a little back up? No, they
ended up opening my car door. They did. Yeah.
Speaker 16: It was two or three guys were sitting there and
they're just yanking. I was trying to hold it as
good as I could. They want I was like, listen,
just start poking.
Speaker 7: Out a little bit, okay.
Speaker 16: I didn't try to do it to physically hurting body
really bad, but I did just like like, hey, I
have a knife, come down. They wouldn't stop. They just
kept going. So I tried to step the one guy
in the arm just so they would get it.
Speaker 7: So he was right there beside you. Yeah, he opened
my corriwor and he's coming trying to grab me. He's
coming to try to grab me. Yeah, that's why I
st to have his arm.
Speaker 27: Well.
Speaker 7: As soon as I stepped him in the arm, they left.
Speaker 16: The Let you guys took off completely, okay, And that's
when Saber got.
Speaker 7: In the car and I took off.
Speaker 6: Isaac also claimed that he only stabbed Charlie in the arm,
but the detectives obviously knew better. After all, they weren't
retarded like Isaac. They of course knew Charlie had been
stabbed multiple times all over his body. This was a
careless lie on Isaac's part, and one that would make
him look way more guilty.
Speaker 7: He stabbed the guy in the yarm one time. I
think it was voice twice. Are you? Are you sure
wasn't more than that, because there's more stab wounds than that.
I didn't think I was.
Speaker 16: Because I'd tried to just get him to go with.
I was not trying to hurt him, didn't want he added,
I just wanted him to go with because there's fifteen.
Speaker 6: Us as a friend, Jean stabbing someone as a preventative measure.
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay.
Speaker 6: After giving this bullshit version of the stabbing, Isaac went
on to tell two more lies that would later come
back to haunt him.
Speaker 7: So did did you go? Where'd you go after that?
I went straight home? Okay, you're knife. You don't know
exactly where you put it.
Speaker 16: They're looking for a new car right now, no clue wordness,
it's in my car or it that was that property.
Speaker 6: Not only did Isaac's story contradict at least ten other
witness statements, but it didn't even align with Saber's story.
These two idiots couldn't even get their story straight. He
told detectives that after the stabbing, he went straight home,
conveniently leaving out the stop at Justin's house. Naturally, detectives
were curious about why he would lie about that. They
planned to reach out to Justin and question him about
Isaac's early morning visit to his house, but before they
got the chance, Justin called them, Tarry friend.
Speaker 25: Showed up to my house like breath thirty this morning, drunk,
and he was flipping out, like saying that he got
jumped at some party that he was at and he
had to use an IF on someone.
Speaker 10: And I told him they didn't want.
Speaker 25: To hear antonom he needed to leave and turn himself
in because he can't just make something like that go
away for a He threw the knife over there.
Speaker 6: Justin told detectives that Isaac tossed a knife into a
bush near Justin's driveway. Police then recovered the weapon, which
was still spattered with Charlie's blood. In a follow up interview,
Justin also revealed something else Isaac had talked about returning
to the cabin to do even more damage.
Speaker 7: He did say.
Speaker 25: Stuff like that of your house kind of it was
more of like he just wanted to go back and
beat up the other people that were trying to jump him.
Speaker 7: Okay, all right.
Speaker 6: As the investigation deepened, more of Isaac's lies unraveled. Detectives
learned that after ditching the knife, he and Sabra made
yet another stop, this time to visit Sabro's mother.
Speaker 5: So they did end up coming to your place.
Speaker 11: Yes, they were there fifteen twenty minute.
Speaker 5: I don't even think twenty minutes.
Speaker 19: He's just talking about how he was going to get
what he needed.
Speaker 5: And he was going out out there.
Speaker 6: By now, detectives had gathered multiple witness statements that pretty
much proved both Isaac and Sabra had lied about what
led up to the stabbing, the stabbing itself, and what
they did afterwards. But the most damning evidence was still
to come.
Speaker 12: There is a camera on cabin six, Is that correct?
Speaker 11: Yes?
Speaker 12: Would it have been.
Speaker 7: Recording at all or doing any kind of recording last.
Speaker 9: Night video but on audio audio.
Speaker 22: I need that video preserved, and I need to get
that video here at our office as soon as I
can get it.
Speaker 6: Detectives contacted the owner of the rental cabin, who turned
over surveillance footage from a motion activated camera mounted on
the front porch. Though it didn't capture the stabbing, it
revealed the moments leading up to it. The footage showed
what several witnesses had already described. Near the front porch
of the cabin, Dalton's friends physically held Dalton away from
Isaac to keep him from fighting. At the same time,
a group surrounded Isaac gesturing for him to leave. There's
no audio, but the body language is clear they weren't
looking for a fight. Then Isaac threw a wild punch
at the crowd. It missed. Someone shoved him back against
a parked car. A few partygoers then grabbed Isaac and
carried him towards his car, right out of the camera's view.
See how that series of events actually makes sense? Or
are you also from Ohio? Yeah, I'm talking to you.
This footage was pretty important as it showed the partygoers
were not trying to hurt Isaac. They just wanted him
to leave before things got worse. But this wasn't the
only video that detectives recovered.
Speaker 8: Well, I flew off the porch so fast and I
ended up on record of my truck because I thought
Isaac was.
Speaker 2: Going to in my car, so I started recording the
video in the circumstance.
Speaker 28: That he hit record, and I captured the entire stabbing.
Speaker 6: Remember Amanda Chapman, she's the young woman who rushed to
Charlie's side after the stabbing. She had the presence of
mind to pull out her phone and hit record when
the fight started. What you're about to hear comes from
Amanda's cell phone. These are the final seconds just before
the stabbing.
Speaker 12: My car Watch It.
Speaker 6: Savages. Amanda's footage begins with Isaac halfway sitting in the
driver's seat, his door cracked open, and his one foot
on the ground outside of his Several people are trying
to close the door, but Isaac resists, pushing back against them.
People are shouting, get the hell out of here and
get in your car. No one is threatening Isaac, no
one is swinging. They just want him gone. Charlie Starner
is among the voices the video shows, embracing against the door,
trying to keep Isaac in the car. Then, without warning,
Isaac grabs a knife from the center console. He stands,
slips part way out of the car, and opens the blade.
What follows is horrifying. In the audio, you can hear
the metallic click of the knife being opened, right before
Isaac swings again and again, plunging the blade into Charlie's back,
neck and anywhere that Isaac can reach. Fair warning, this
next bit of audio is not an easy listen.
Speaker 11: Car.
Speaker 6: The video cuts off, but witnesses filled in the rest.
After the stabbing, Charlie collapsed, his friends dragged him away,
while Isaac slammed the car door shut and sped off
with Sabra or whatever the fucker name is. Later, more
surveillance footage surface, this time from Justin's house. On it,
Isaac can be seen tossing the knife into a bush
before disappearing into the night. Isaac had already lied to
detectives during his first interview, but now armed with this
overwhelming evidence, they questioned him a second time, and they
had some devastating news.
Speaker 3: What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody.
He's dead and died.
Speaker 5: He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world
lost a father.
Speaker 4: He leaves behind a nine and a half month old son.
Speaker 5: Named jet Okay. A mother and father lost their son.
Speaker 3: A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on
for several minutes waiting.
Speaker 5: For a medic to get there to try and save
his life.
Speaker 4: He died at Grant's morning, and you're facing murder charges.
Speaker 6: Roughly five and a half hours after the stabbing, Charlie
Starner died at Grant Medical Center in Columbus, Ohio. Despite
the doctor's best efforts and emergency surgery, Charlie's heart gave out.
With his death, the case shifted and got a whole
lot more serious. Both Isaac Pence and Saber Flagg were
now facing murder charges in a lifetime behind bars. On
April twenty third, twenty twenty three, twenty year old Isaac
Pence and his fiance Sabra Flag were taken into police
custody after a night of violence at a cabin party
that left twenty two year old Charlie Starner dead. Isaac
and Sabra lied repeatedly during their first interviews with detectives,
hoping to cover their tracks, but when detectives brought them
back for a second round, this time armed with overwhelming evidence,
their lies began to unravel. They started with Sabra and
quickly broke the tragic news that Charlie was dead.
Speaker 4: So, mother to mother, you.
Speaker 29: Love your children, right, okay, and you want to see
your kids again some day because today somebody.
Speaker 4: Actions made it so.
Speaker 29: A mother lost her son, a father lost his son,
somebody lost their boyfriend. Okay, several friends lost another friend
who bled out at the hands of someone that you care.
Speaker 4: About, and you know something, I really I don't. You
were there, Yeah, but I didn't.
Speaker 11: I didn't know he got stabbed.
Speaker 4: I didn't.
Speaker 11: I didn't know that until after he would left.
Speaker 10: I swear, if.
Speaker 3: You're trying to protect this man, you're going to go
down as an accomplished from her.
Speaker 7: I'm not. I promise.
Speaker 3: You know something, and your allegiance to this man is
going to get you nowhere, because let me tell you,
he's going to prison.
Speaker 7: I didn't.
Speaker 17: I didn't.
Speaker 12: I swear on anything.
Speaker 11: I did not know he got subbed until after we left.
I'm not trying to protect him.
Speaker 4: So what did he say after he stabbed him? Because
you guys drove away together, he had to up said something.
Speaker 12: He didn't.
Speaker 11: He really didn't, he said, I don't want to think
he said anything. He just got in the car. I
want the car.
Speaker 2: I didn't know, and I didn't know until ten or
so minutes later that he said, I.
Speaker 11: Think I think I stepped someone and someone something along
the lines of that. I didn't know, because if I
would have known, I would have left.
Speaker 6: That promise detectives confronted Sabro with the harsh reality of
her situation, but she continued to resist coming clean. She
maintained her efforts to downplay Isaac's behavior and minimize what
he had done.
Speaker 7: He died, he's dead, he's gone.
Speaker 2: You know, So.
Speaker 7: You were honest you today.
Speaker 5: See, it's the paramount of what we need now.
Speaker 7: Okay, I spoke to your mother on the time.
Speaker 5: So did I want you to be honest? I'm not.
Speaker 7: You know he's against wim correct. He's been violent before
against swimming.
Speaker 5: Correct. He was violent against your own mama.
Speaker 11: Talking about he so, yes, he did push my mom?
Speaker 2: Did what he pushed my mom because he went to
court for it.
Speaker 11: He told me earlier that he would never do that
to a woman. Correctly, I totally forgot about my mom.
Speaker 10: I'm so sorry.
Speaker 5: I help you get your mom.
Speaker 7: How can you forget about your mom?
Speaker 5: He trying to protect him.
Speaker 3: I'm I'm going to tell you that I talked to
his parents and they said that he's an explosive, angry,
violent and drunk.
Speaker 4: He is.
Speaker 7: He is.
Speaker 2: He's never been like like aggressive to me. He just
he gets aggressive and he'll like he pushes back when she'll.
Speaker 11: He does stupid things when he's drunk. I always the
first swim with thought.
Speaker 6: This was another lie. Out of all the detective interviews,
was the last one, the very last person to admit
that Isaac had a habit of becoming violent when he drank.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you right now that my specialty
is domestic violence, sexual assault, and crimes against children and
the living conditions that your children are in.
Speaker 30: Our crime a deplorable, sickening crime. I'm thirty five years
old and I could barely breathe in that house. I
went to where you sleep, like, do you think that
this is normal, that this is an okay situation? Is
this what you want your babies growing up in?
Speaker 27: Definitely not.
Speaker 11: We were trying to save up for an apartment at
our house.
Speaker 2: We were just trying to find some somewhere to go
on our own because we don't.
Speaker 5: I vaguely am the mess on Isaac and you.
Speaker 3: There's dog feces everywhere there.
Speaker 4: The ammonia in that house is horrible.
Speaker 29: We've made a.
Speaker 4: Referral to have your children emergency.
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that the living conditions, the trash.
Speaker 30: The bugs, the cobwebs, the lack of running water.
Speaker 5: That's it's not normal. Your babies are going to get sick.
Speaker 4: And if you care anything about your baby's take to
heart what Lieutenant m Night is telling you. I'm gonna
tell you know how. I know you're full of shit.
Speaker 3: You went to your mom's, you went to Justin's all
before you went back to the house.
Speaker 4: I talked to your mom.
Speaker 18: I did go to the moms.
Speaker 11: I'm totally forgot. I'm so sorry.
Speaker 28: Are you forgetting because you were drunk, or you forgetting
because you were high because she doesn't.
Speaker 7: Want to tell us?
Speaker 6: The truth was smacked with more and more evidence that
exposed your bullshit, and it just kept coming.
Speaker 4: You told your mommy you were going.
Speaker 5: To come back to the house.
Speaker 3: Of the matter of fact, you said you were going
to stop by Isaac's house and you guys.
Speaker 4: Were coming back to the cabin because you were going
to get your shit. I don't you texted, You texted
a horizon.
Speaker 5: I saw the messages. You said.
Speaker 29: I need my purse, I need my shoes, I need
my glasses. If I don't get those things back, somebody,
I'm calling the cops.
Speaker 4: Those were your priorities.
Speaker 29: Not hey, my man, sab somebody, how's that kid's condition?
Speaker 7: Not once today have you asked about how he was?
Speaker 18: I had you have no care?
Speaker 4: Oh did you know that he has a ten month
old son.
Speaker 5: I didn't name jet.
Speaker 11: I honestly had no clue.
Speaker 5: So now you.
Speaker 4: Left another baby without a parent, just like your kids are.
Speaker 3: Going to be left without their parents because you guys
are gonna go sit in PRIs for the next twenty.
Speaker 4: Five years to life for murder.
Speaker 6: When faced with a lengthy prison sentence, the only thing
these idiots understand. It seemed like the detectives had finally
broken through to Sabra and she agreed to tell the
full truth. At least that's what she claimed.
Speaker 24: His time to stop lying and tell us the truth
because you're leaving stuff.
Speaker 5: I don't trying to sugarcoat it.
Speaker 7: All we're asking for you to do is the truth.
The only thing you have is your word, and you're
not telling us.
Speaker 11: The whole truth or a Now, okay, I'll start a promise.
Speaker 7: What did you see about the stabbing.
Speaker 5: And see it?
Speaker 2: And I'm being completely trustful on everything. I didn't see
any or get stabbing and see anyone fall to the floor.
I didn't see anything.
Speaker 6: When someone says they're being completely truthful, that's a sure
sign there not. Sabra continued to insist that she hadn't
witnessed the stabbing, and the cell phone footage somewhat supports
her claim. Though the video is dark and grainy, it
seems to show Sabra distracted, focused on something else and
not looking in Isaac's direction when he attacked Charlie. It's
possible she didn't realize that stabbing had taken place until
after they fled the scene. That said, there is a
moment just before the stabbing where Sabra reaches into the
center console and it looks as though she may be
handing something to Isaac. This raised the question did Sabra
provide the murder weapon? Unfortunately, the view of the center
console is obstructed, so we're not likely to get an
answer to that question in truth. Once Saber agreed to
be completely honest, her story didn't change very much. The
biggest shift was in how she talked about Isaac. Based
with a looming threat of prison time, she suddenly seemed
far more willing to throw him under the bus.
Speaker 12: Me and Brito on stairs, we were wanting to go
in the hot tub, and I was like, well.
Speaker 2: I don't know if Isaac will freak out or not,
because he was He's very you know, he doesn't.
Speaker 11: Like if I'm like in a bathing suit around a
bunch of guys.
Speaker 5: He's very jealous, so controlling.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, I hear people arguing constantly,
and I'm like, what the heck is going on?
Speaker 5: So we all run back into.
Speaker 2: The house and it's like it's a big huddle with people,
and on time figure out who was arguing.
Speaker 4: And then I realized it was Isaac.
Speaker 11: I didn't know who he was arguing with.
Speaker 2: They were like trying to push him out, and I
was like, okay, let's just go, Like, let's just go,
and he was sitting He's like, no, just shut the
fuck up.
Speaker 12: I'm sitting here with people.
Speaker 11: He was starting cussing out the people. I'm just like,
come on, let's go.
Speaker 5: And I was crying.
Speaker 2: I was like, just please, let's go, and he's like, no,
fuck this, fuck that, fuck everyone.
Speaker 6: Unlike her first telling, Sabra now admitted that Isaac had
been the aggressor at the party. Surprise, surprise, this version
of events was far closer to the truth.
Speaker 4: Can you tell you where he stabbed him?
Speaker 11: No, he said that he thought he stabbed him in
the arm.
Speaker 5: That's what he said.
Speaker 12: And I was like, okay, Like, did you stab.
Speaker 5: Him anywhere else? I don't think so.
Speaker 3: Do you know that this gentleman was stabbed six times?
I did not know that her stab in the jaw
right here, in the side of his neck, around his back,
twice in his chest, and another one in between his.
Speaker 4: Head and his neck.
Speaker 7: Oh my god.
Speaker 11: He shouldn't have stabbed anybody. It should have been a calm, cool,
collected night. This was one night though me and him
didn't have any kids.
Speaker 3: And I mean, I know that you guys hardly ever
have your kids, because Ginger told me she's raising your kids.
Speaker 4: You guys, go and do however you want, whenever you want.
She's stuck with these kids. She's raised all over her own.
You know, you guys are going out and drinking and
living your lives.
Speaker 5: I'm like, you don't have kids.
Speaker 11: And this made me realize I need to step up
and be a better mom.
Speaker 3: I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,
but you're not going to get the opportunity for a long,
long time.
Speaker 4: Not only is the steak and I have custy of
your children. You're going to jail today.
Speaker 5: Am I really?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 11: But it's true I did.
Speaker 4: If I have my way, you're going. As an accomplished
to murder.
Speaker 6: With her updated story on record, this dumb bitch was
handcuffed and taken to jail. Next to face off with
detectives was her fiance, Isaac Pence.
Speaker 5: You were at a house party.
Speaker 4: Kind of walked me through the events of the evening,
well the rest of night.
Speaker 7: It was all completely fun, and so everyone got way
too drunk.
Speaker 16: I was standing in the hallway and someone got in
my face, so I pushed it on the way and
then that's when about fifteen of them all wanted to
come outside and tried and Joe me and who got.
Speaker 7: In your face? I'm not even sure who it was.
Speaker 5: Okay, who did you push out of it?
Speaker 7: Away?
Speaker 16: I pushed that person out of the way and they
fell into a rest and they tried to say that
I pushed her rest because as soon as she got touched,
everyone just flipped.
Speaker 7: Because he just started running at me.
Speaker 6: At this point, Isaac was completely unaware of the mountain
of evidence that detectives had gathered against him, and he
didn't know that Charlie Starner had died, so naturally, Isaac
stuck to his lies.
Speaker 16: After I get in my car, they all started trying
to rip my door open, and once they got the
door open, I just grabbed myne real quick. I was like,
get get away, and they weren't listening. So when I
tried to put him in the arm.
Speaker 5: Okay, he sat him once in the arm, and what
happens after that?
Speaker 7: He kept coming, so set him again.
Speaker 5: So you stab him a second time, and what happens.
Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure that you left.
Speaker 16: I kind of blacked out after I got him at
the same time because I sat shit and then I
just kind of blacked out.
Speaker 7: I think I just said twice of them left.
Speaker 6: Conveniently, Isaac slipped into the tired excuse of blacking out.
Funny how sharp his memory had stayed right up until
the point where he stabbed someone to death.
Speaker 5: Take off from there, and where do you go? Oh?
Speaker 27: Think, try that again? No, okay, So it's Justin's house
for a second. Okay, then for Justin's house, went at
her mom's house.
Speaker 5: Then went well, so I'm gonna tell you. The only
thing you have left in this world is your integrity.
You know what integrity is?
Speaker 6: Do you know what integrity he is?
Speaker 12: I love that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're honesty, and I'm going to tell you that
I have found about forty one.
Speaker 3: Holes already in your story. The last thing I want
is your bullshit. Okay, what you did last night is
fucked up. You killed somebody. He's dead and did Yeah.
Speaker 5: He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world
lost a father.
Speaker 4: He leaves behind a nine and a half month old
son named jet Okay.
Speaker 5: A mother and father lost their son.
Speaker 3: A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on
for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there
to try and save his life.
Speaker 4: He died at Grant this morning, and you're facing murder charges.
Speaker 5: He did because you didn't stab him twice.
Speaker 4: You sad him multiple times, way more than twice.
Speaker 5: I'll talk to your mom.
Speaker 3: I know you were a very violent, explosive person. I
know you drink almost every weekend. You left her in
the care and custody of your two children, Draco and Whaleen,
who are thirteen months and four months old.
Speaker 4: Up been inside your bedroom, up been inside your car.
Speaker 5: I've had a very deep conversation with.
Speaker 4: Your girlfriend, your girlfriend's mother, and everyone that was at
that cabin. You get one shot at this with me,
and that's it. You want to start over, Let's go.
Speaker 6: Detectives hit Isaac with the same reality check they'd given
to Sabra. Afterwards, he appeared slightly more willing to tell
the truth, but much like Sabra, he couldn't stop trying
to minimize his actions.
Speaker 5: How much did you drink that night?
Speaker 16: I think he's drank. It's pol Pagan Miller. I took
a couple of shots of Hennessy and a bottle of cream.
It's like green cellar apple snops.
Speaker 5: You drank a lot of alcohol.
Speaker 4: No way that you have an explosive personality when you're drunk.
Speaker 14: And if I tell you that, I have literally witness
statements written witness statements of you ed pushing a horizon.
Speaker 7: That's what they're trying to say.
Speaker 5: Okay, and you're telling me that that's not true.
Speaker 7: I don't think that I pushed her.
Speaker 4: Is it possible that you could have pushed her and
you blacked out? Given me the copious amounts of alcohol you.
Speaker 7: Drank, I could have, but I really I do not
believe that I did.
Speaker 5: Do you think it's okay to put your hands off
the amounts ever the sisters? Okay? Do you think it'd
be okay for your sons to do the same? Would
you like it if Dalton shoved sober?
Speaker 6: Now, I remind you this is the same guy that
had just recently gotten out of jail for assaulting his
baby mom's mother, his children's grandmother, So take that with
a grain of something. Isaac claimed that he didn't or
couldn't recall shoving Dalton's girlfriend to the ground, which was
the act that ignited the whole night's chaos. Unfortunately for him,
multiple witnesses, including Dalton's girlfriend, said that he did.
Speaker 10: He pushed you onto the ground inside the cabin.
Speaker 13: Yes, right by the door, two open hands, honey, clearly
shot me okay by your chest or yeah, like my
shoulders and chest right.
Speaker 6: Here after Isaac shoved Horizon, Dalton understandably exploded with anger,
and from there the night spiraled out of control.
Speaker 4: Dalton comes to you.
Speaker 7: And says, what, uh, he was just freaking out. Then
he's gonna be my ass and everything.
Speaker 16: And then once he did the anyone else jumped in
and there is about five ten people and we went
outside and they were all.
Speaker 7: Trying to hit me.
Speaker 5: What if I tell you that I have some mail
on this video of them just saying it's time to leave.
It's time to leave.
Speaker 7: No, because when we went because that's probably all this
is where they're hitting me.
Speaker 3: Well, a scuffle ensues, but they're trying to push you
out of the cabin and Sober was telling you it's.
Speaker 5: Time to go.
Speaker 7: Oh, I don't remember it, okay.
Speaker 6: Once again, Isaac's selective memory failed him, but the evidence
was clear nobody at the party wanted more violence. Witness
after witness confirmed that everyone simply wanted Isaac to leave.
Speaker 18: That in the house, I was.
Speaker 22: Trying to like stop him from fighting and screaming at
each other, and we're just trying to get him to
leave Isaac, Like everybody was.
Speaker 10: Just telling that kid to leave.
Speaker 6: Surveillance footage from the cabin backed up the witness statements,
showing several people dragged Isaac toward his car, trying to
get him away from the situation.
Speaker 5: And when you get your car, what happens.
Speaker 7: A knife he's pulling on the door.
Speaker 4: I thing I'll tell you that I have a footprint
that tells me they.
Speaker 5: Were trying to close Does this Does this sound familiar?
Now we're trying to get back out of the car,
you know, one.
Speaker 3: Foot out and or you're trying to push open the
door and somebody takes a foot.
Speaker 5: And closes the door.
Speaker 3: I have a footprint to corroborate that, and in the
side of your equinox that says they were trying to
get you back.
Speaker 5: In the car. Okay, do you remember any of that?
At what point do you reach for the knife?
Speaker 7: I'm not completely sure.
Speaker 5: Okay, And you what happens when you grabbed this knife?
Speaker 7: I think just start stabbing him?
Speaker 4: How many times do you think you stabbed him?
Speaker 5: Okay? Did you say anything as you were stabbing him?
Couldn't sell you. Did you say anything after you stabbed him?
Speaker 7: I think it's just left.
Speaker 6: Not only did the physical evidence contradict Isaac's claims that
he was being attacked but a man the Chapman's cell
phone video clearly showed the exact opposite. People were pushing
on Isaac's car door trying to shut it. They weren't
trying to pull him out. Isaac was the only one
looking for a fight, shoving back, trying to force his
way out of the car. Tragically, he succeeded with a
knife in his hand.
Speaker 5: Because what was your next move when you left that cabin?
That's nobody's house, And what did you say when you
got there? I don't know what if I tell you.
Speaker 3: That I had your surveillance at his house and I
have all the camera footage, and you literally look at
Justin and say, I just fucking stab this guy?
Speaker 5: Is that right about? Okay? What do you do with
the weapon when you're in there? Because certainly it wasn't.
Speaker 4: In the car or at the scene, like you told
the detectives.
Speaker 5: You know exactly where the.
Speaker 4: Murder weapon was the whole time, But you told us
the knife.
Speaker 3: Is definitely in the car, It's definitely at the scene
the whole time. You sat here, knowing that we were
on a wild goose hunt.
Speaker 5: You just didn't think we'd find a knife, did you?
No knife, no crime? Is that what you were hoping for?
Speaker 7: Okay?
Speaker 6: The fact that Isaac hid the murder weapon became a
key piece of the case. It showed a clear consciousness
of guilt. Isaac could claim memory loss all he wanted,
but his actions and the lies he told afterwards spoke.
Volumes are thrown on the bush, quite through it.
Speaker 5: Why would you throw it?
Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, and we're sober.
Speaker 7: It's just a silicer. I think she was marching tiktoks
on her phone.
Speaker 5: Washing tiktoks on her phone. No one, her boyfriend just
stabbed someone. It's pretty normal behavior, right. I mean, hey,
you went home and took a nap like it was
just another day in the park for you.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 5: No, I would be able to sleep if I stab somebody.
Speaker 7: I was too drunk and then really remember it when
I got home, but not too.
Speaker 4: Drunk to drive, not too drunk to dispose of the
murder weapon.
Speaker 5: Jumped to try and cover up your tracks.
Speaker 6: Surveillance footage outside Justin's home captured Isaac ditching the knife
in some nearby bushes. Interestingly, Sabra was inside using the
restroom when he did this, meaning once again it's very
possible Sabra didn't know Isaac had hidden the weapon. This
was another lucky break for her. As for Isaac, he
wasn't ready for the night to end. After disposing of
the knife, he planned to return to the cabin, this
time armed with a gun.
Speaker 7: And then I remember going home me and I said,
they got into it?
Speaker 5: Why did you guys get into it about?
Speaker 7: I think I was trying to get into the gun safe.
Speaker 5: Why are we trying to hit the gun sick?
Speaker 7: I think to get back there.
Speaker 3: And do well?
Speaker 5: Finished the deal? What else would you do?
Speaker 7: I think it was just to scare them because they
wouldn't kill me.
Speaker 28: So you went home and you're rattling the gun safe
trying to get into it. You took a hammer to
the gun to see, okay.
Speaker 5: And what happens grabby and.
Speaker 7: And we end up getting in a fight over it?
Speaker 5: Did she punched him in the face? The black does
left die?
Speaker 3: You know about that?
Speaker 5: You know that you just had a heart attack, and
he's raising your kids again. Stabbing somebody wasn't enough. Today
He went home and.
Speaker 4: Assaulted an old man on top of all the things
you could have done.
Speaker 6: Finally, after stabbing Charlie, hiding the evidence, and assaulting his stepfather,
this drunken, dangerous ass clown passed out in his own bed.
He woke later that morning to the sound of police
knocking at his door.
Speaker 3: So here's the problem with this whole thing is that now?
One time today, have you or somebra asked how that kid?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 7: I was thinking about it. I just didn't want to ask.
Speaker 5: Why not?
Speaker 7: I didn't want to hear it. Did you have any inclination?
I have a feeling.
Speaker 5: Do you know his name was Charlie.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Charlie was just an innocent guy at that party.
You never met Charlie before.
Speaker 11: That, did you.
Speaker 4: He grabbed Charlie by the neck, and he didn't stab
Charlie two times.
Speaker 3: Stab Charlie six times the side of his neck, right here,
on his face, twice in his side.
Speaker 5: Once in his back, and somewhere in between his head
and his neck, and you left.
Speaker 4: You left Charlie to lay there and bleed out on
the ground.
Speaker 5: Charlie didn't die right away, but Charlie, he coughed it
out in a trauma bay.
Speaker 3: He made it in an airplane to a hospital in Columbus,
made it through the surgery and then he could put
his heart gave out. Ain't know what his kid isn't
the only one out of dad, because Draco and Whale
and aren't.
Speaker 5: Going to They're not going to have their mom either.
Speaker 3: She went to jail today well, she do complicity to
murder because she knew what she didn't do anything about it.
Speaker 6: Isaac and Sabra were charged and booked into jail. Initially
both faced murder charges, but eventually Saber's charges were downgraded.
Speaker 17: According to court documents, Isaac Pence has been arrested and
charged with murder. His girlfriend, Sabra Flag, is accused of
leaving the scene with him and lying to detectives about
what happened. She charged with obstructing justice. Pens and Flag
were in court this morning and both pled not guilty,
the judges keeping them both on a one million dollar
bond each.
Speaker 6: Saber later accepted a plea deal. She served just six
months in prison for obstructing justice, and as far as
anyone knows, she's now a free woman. As for Isaac,
he took his case to trial and he lost. He
was convicted of murder and a long list of related charges.
His sentence was eighteen years to life. In my humble
and ultimately meaningless opinion, that's far too lenient. Isaac could
be a relatively young man if he walks out of
prison one day, this time as a felon and a
convicted murderer. What happens next time he picks up a drink.
Whose life will he destroy then? And what judge will
completely skirt responsibility for letting him out. That's frustrating is
Isaac's sentences. There is another detail that makes this case
even harder to stomach. Isaac and Charlie didn't even know
each other. They were complete strangers. Charlie died because he
happened to be standing in the wrong place at the
wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that
he had never met. That's how easy it is, folks.
That's how quickly it can all end.
Speaker 10: And how did Charlie get involved in this hole?
Speaker 13: He was literally just standing right there as far as
I know, he was standing right.
Speaker 12: There by the porch.
Speaker 10: And so Charlie and him had no beasts prior to this.
Speaker 12: You know, I don't even think they talked, Okay, Yeah.
Speaker 10: So he just kind of was the unlucky, yeah, victim
in all of us.
Speaker 6: Charlie Starter was just twenty two years old. He was
a young father, soon to be husband, and by every account,
a good man who loved his family and friends fiercely.
His future was full of promise, but all of a
sudden it was stolen in an instant when he tried
to do what good people so often do. He stepped in,
hoping to calm a situation before it got worse. Charlie
wasn't reckless, he wasn't looking for a fight. He was
trying to protect and he was trying to help, and
that one moment of courage cost him everything. The unfortunate
truth is that sometimes the safest choice and the smartest
way to protect yourself is to step back when danger
bears its teeth. But this case isn't a warning against
being brave or helpful, of being a good Samaritan. It's
simply a brutal reminder that evil doesn't need a reason
to destroy what's good. And you never know what someone
else is capable of, or how quickly a night of
drinking and partying can spiral into something deadly. Sometimes all
it takes is being in the wrong place, facing the
wrong person at the wrong time. You know that time
when you're done recording an episode of swords Gilts, fresh
off the presses, you're ready to put it out, but
you just know, you just know, deep down inside, that
some fat monstrosity with a septum ring and clown hair
is going to accuse you of being a misogynist simply
because you called a dumb bitch dumb. Well, you see here,
maybe I am a misogynist. Maybe I am. Maybe if
being a feminist means you side with someone just because
they have a pair of tits like you do despite
not having a brain, or I don't know, morals means
what you got to stick together? Girls, just remember this
little lesson we've hammered into your brain over and over
and over again. Beware of the company you keep. If
you side with idiots with loose morals, then maybe that's
exactly who you are too. But who am I other
than just a dumb male kind of like the other
idiot in this story, which I don't side with at
all because I'm not a maleist or whatever they're called.
Because having a brain is more important than having a dick.
See how that works, nah, you from Ohio to