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Speaker 1: Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence, and is

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not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 2: Same to realize I need to step up and be

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a better mom.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,

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but you're not going to get the opportunity for a

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long long time.

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Speaker 4: Not only is the steak and to have custy of

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your children.

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Speaker 5: You're going to.

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Speaker 3: Jail today, if I have my way, You're going as

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an accomplished to murder.

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Speaker 6: Some knights start with laughter and with sirens. No one

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sees it coming until it's too late. Some knights are

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simply born under a bad sign. You likely won't even

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feel it at first. The music's loud, the drinks are flowing,

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and it all feels harmless enough. But violence rarely announces itself.

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It rarely sends an R s v P with a

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self addressed, stamped envelope. Often it builds quietly, bubbling beneath

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the surface until it does what all bubbles do, and

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it bursts without warning. And when it does, the people

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who pay the price are rarely the ones looking for trouble.

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They're the ones standing too close when the world suddenly

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tilts towards chaos.

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Speaker 7: Okay, how many times have been stabbed?

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Speaker 5: I watched it happen.

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Speaker 8: The guy had been He stabbed him in the shoulder.

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Speaker 7: Say that he has.

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Speaker 6: On April twenty third, twenty twenty three, at about three am,

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deputies from the Hawking County Sheriff's Office were dispatched to

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a remote cabin talked deep in the woods of Sugar Growth,

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a lovely village in the wonderful state of Ohio, which

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we love so much on this program, namely because of

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all the wonderful and colorful people that lived there, had

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all of the wonderful content they bring us. When deputies

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finally arrived to their destination, they found a group of

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young adults gathered near the front porch of the cabin.

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They were visibly shaken and clustered around a young man

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sprawled on the ground. The young man was covered in blood.

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He had been stabbed several times, and time was running out.

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Speaker 5: Charlie, yes he is.

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Speaker 9: Billion, I was back.

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Speaker 6: Deputies learned that the young man's name was Charlie. While

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waiting for paramedics to arrive, his friends hovered close, supplying

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makeshift bandages and holding pressure on his stab wounds. They

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urged Charlie to hang on and keep fighting.

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Speaker 5: You got it, You're so tough.

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Speaker 4: Come on, Charlie, Yeah, you got it.

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Speaker 2: On, Charlie, so good, Come on, you're so strong about.

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Speaker 10: How strong you're gonna be.

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Speaker 4: You're the strongest person I know.

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Speaker 11: Anybody can make this like this, it's huge.

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Speaker 3: There we goes squats here.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, come on, Charlie.

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Speaker 5: I'm so proud.

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Speaker 13: I'm so proud.

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Speaker 14: You're knowing so good.

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Speaker 15: Keep pushing for us, all right, model to the neck,

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you guys, I'm not quite sure he has seals.

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Speaker 6: After several agonizing minutes, paramedics arrived on scene and Charlie

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was gurneyed into an ambulance.

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Speaker 4: How don't you shout?

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Speaker 9: Nine sty went one two thirty four five one on

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his back, next six.

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Speaker 16: Six thats two to the right, john slash year, one

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of the neck, one of the.

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Speaker 7: Top part of his like his trap, one of the

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boys said, and one on the back.

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Speaker 6: Charlie was in critical condition, and he was soon airlifted

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to the nearest trauma center, where doctors and surgeons would

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attempt to save his life. Back at the cabin, deputies

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began the grim task of piecing together what had gone

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so violently wrong?

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Speaker 7: A wait us the stabbing.

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Speaker 4: I saw everything you saying.

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Speaker 7: So who else it? You? Two?

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Speaker 17: Just you two?

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Speaker 16: Okay, all right, I got some detectives coming.

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Speaker 6: Roughly fifteen to twenty potential witnesses remained at the scene,

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all of them in their early twenties. Deputies corralled the

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group around a nearby fire pit and waited for detectives

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to arrive. When the inside of the cabin was searched,

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deputies found all the markings of a fun college like party.

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Decorations hung from the ceiling, beer bottles littered every surface,

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The kitchen sink overflowed with dishes, and a table in

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the living room showed signs of a recently played drinking game.

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Back outside, the first detectives pulled up and questioning began.

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Speaker 18: So, first of all, what time did you get here?

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Speaker 19: I got here yesterday, okay, so.

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Speaker 18: It's now almost six o'clock on Sunday mornings.

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Speaker 10: I got here on Friday Friday. I helped decorate and

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set up.

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Speaker 18: Okay, So when you say, it's a great setip, but

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what was this?

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Speaker 19: Uh his twenty first, twenty thirty birthday?

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Speaker 18: Okay, so this is Dalton's twenty third birthday.

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Speaker 6: The two story wood cabin had been rented for the

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weekend by twenty three year old Dalton Flag as part

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of his birthday celebration.

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Speaker 10: All right, so this is your birthday party? Yes, okay,

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so walk me. How long have you been here this year?

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Speaker 18: The whole weekend? Yeah, we got here Friday like four pm,

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I think it was.

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Speaker 6: Dalton arrived at the cabin that Friday evening with his

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girlfriend and roommate. The three of them started setting up,

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decorating the space and anticipation of what they hoped would

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be a carefree weekend of partying with friends. Naturally, Dalton

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had sent out the invites, including one to twenty two

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year old Charles Starner, known to most as Charlie or Chuck.

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Charlie was a manager at a small pizzeria where he

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employed several of the friends, He was engaged and the

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father of a nine month old son. That night, Charlie

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showed up to a party with his fiance and two

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close friends.

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Speaker 3: So you get here tonight around seven pm?

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Speaker 10: Okay, you wrote down with Charlie, Caleb and Rachel. Okay,

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what happens when you guys get here? Everything is fine

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and dandy.

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Speaker 18: Everything was fine.

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Speaker 20: That kid wasn't even here when I first got at

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your ead inchuke for the kids. That step Charlie wasn't

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here for hours when I was here, and everything was.

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Speaker 10: Fine, okay.

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Speaker 6: The atmosphere at the cabin was everything you'd expect from

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a typical college aged party. People were drinking heavily, some

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smoking weed, and a few others were openly using cocaine.

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The hot tub was in use, drinking games were underway,

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and everyone seemed to be having a great time until

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suddenly they weren't.

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Speaker 18: It was pretty chill. Then, how did we get to this? Honestly,

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I don't know where were you at.

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Speaker 21: I was inside and I just heard people screaming, so

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I ran out to look because obviously I'm nowsing, but

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me and Ryan like heard them yelling, so we ran

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out to check it out. And he was just fighting, which, uh,

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it was just a bunch of the guys.

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Speaker 18: So there's more than two people fighting.

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Speaker 21: It wasn't really fighting. Everyone was just yelling at each other.

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Speaker 17: And then.

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Speaker 21: We went inside because we didn't really think anything of it.

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Then we heard a bunch of screaming and I came

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out and that's when I saw, like the guy.

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Speaker 18: I don't even know who he was, So the guy

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you're talking about, the person who was hurt.

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Speaker 21: Or the person that was hurt. I see him where

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I think his neck, I don't know. I just seemed

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blood like dripping down him and that freaked me out

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and I took off running into the woods because I

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was scared.

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Speaker 6: One of the first challenges detective's face was that not

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everyone at the party had witnessed the stabbing. To make

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matters worse, many of the attendees were strangers to one another,

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having met for the first time that night. When questioned,

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several had trouble recalling names, making the investigation difficult to untangle.

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Speaker 18: Do you know who did this or were you told?

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Speaker 7: No?

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Speaker 19: I know his name, okay, Isaac Pince, Isaac Paince, I

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don't know how to spell it.

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Speaker 18: He's the one. Everyone said it. He was the one

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that drove the car, pulled the car out of here.

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I don't know what kind of car. Will see him leave.

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I'll see him peel out with the car. Who's anybody

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with him?

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Speaker 7: I think it's fiance.

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Speaker 6: Despite the challenges, detectives managed to determine who had been stabbed,

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and perhaps more importantly, who had done the stabbing. Over

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and over, the partygoers pointed to one person, a young

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man named Isaac Pence.

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Speaker 10: So you guys are hanging out. When does Isaac arrive?

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Speaker 20: I couldn't tell you, like an exact time.

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Speaker 22: And if I didn't guess, i'd.

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Speaker 10: Say the weaven who's he arrived with?

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Speaker 18: And is that his fiance?

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Speaker 10: I think I think their may engaged.

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Speaker 7: Maybe I'm non positive on that work, Okay, I.

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Speaker 18: Know the data for sure.

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Speaker 6: Twenty year old Isaac Pence arrived at the cabin with

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his fiance, Sabra Flag, who was the sister of the

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birthday host, Dalton Flag. Sabra was the only reason Isaac

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had been invited in the first place, and it didn't

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take long for detectives to learn that Isaac and Dalton

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had a rocky history.

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Speaker 18: How he and Isaac been together like four years? So

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do you know Isaac?

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Speaker 19: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Who is he?

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Speaker 18: What do you mean? Play good person? I'm a good person.

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Speaker 19: When he's not drinking.

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Speaker 18: Yes, when he's drinking Isaac was drinking.

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Speaker 19: Yes, and time he drinks.

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Speaker 18: He's very violent, has Isaac and never had bad blood before?

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Speaker 5: Yes?

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Speaker 19: Because he just he doesn't treat Saber well at all. Yeah,

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but they never got along.

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Speaker 23: And I told like, I like Saber wanted to come,

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and Dalon's like, Isaac would only allow her to come

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if he came with her, And Dalton was like, not

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okay with it, but he said, as long as he's

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not drinking.

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Speaker 19: But as soon as he came to the house he

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was drinking.

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Speaker 18: In trouble before for drinking for one.

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Speaker 19: I know he's on probation for something he's not supposed

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to be drinking, and he is.

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Speaker 6: By nearly all accounts, Isaac Pence had a reputation for

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being a violet drunk. He had only just recently been

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released from jail for assaulting Sabra and Dalton's mother. Dalton

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knew Isaac was trouble. He didn't want him at the party,

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especially not in a secluded cabin in the woods, but

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to keep peace with his sister stir, Dalton gave in

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and allowed Isaac to attend. That would turn out to

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be a grave mistake.

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Speaker 10: Who was Isaac West? Who did he sleep with?

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Speaker 16: My sister?

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Speaker 24: Sabrify She stays with Isaac and his parents, So she

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lives with Isaac and his parents and Isaac's had issues

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in the past. He's put his hands on my sister,

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and he's just literally went to jail three months ago

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for putting his hands on my mom.

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Speaker 10: How old was Isaac?

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Speaker 12: Twenty twenty one?

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Speaker 6: By this point, detectives had started to piece together the

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key relationships and some of the night's events, but this

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information hadn't come quickly. Hours had passed and partygoers were

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now sobering up. Many were growing restless and increasingly impatient

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with the process.

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Speaker 5: I wanted to fucking go home. I've been sitting here

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for fucking hours. I'm freezing. We're not I get it.

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I am fucking old as fun.

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Speaker 7: You understand it, bro?

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Speaker 5: Why are you? Why are you choking?

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Speaker 12: Why are you choking?

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Speaker 5: Why do you get your record recordish? Hey, records that

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have a fuck?

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Speaker 4: You're choking?

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Speaker 7: Now?

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Speaker 6: That guy was taking a jail for disrupting the scene

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of an emergency. And the interviews continued. As detectives continue

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to ask questions, they eventually learned how the party was

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turned into a scene of chaos and violence.

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Speaker 10: All right, so what started this whole argument?

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Speaker 24: So everyone, like most people were leaving, Isaac was beyond

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drugging and he was calling everyone like names. I don't

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even like, I don't even know why he was acting

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where he was because everybody was leaving and everything, like.

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Speaker 18: Everything we roll done.

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Speaker 24: He started acting, pushing other people, me and my o

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over there and say heyboy, like just see he's like

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you're fine, You're good, like just you're good.

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Speaker 25: Just leave.

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Speaker 20: Like from the leave he got super mad and they

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started to raise their voices at each other.

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Speaker 18: For some reason, he pushed a rising really hard, like into.

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Speaker 20: A table, okay, And then that was when things like

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really escalated because now Dalton was super mad because his

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girlfriend got pushed and they.

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Speaker 10: Were just like screaming at each other.

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Speaker 19: He didn't want to leave.

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Speaker 12: He came charging, pushed me.

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Speaker 13: On the ground and charged at Dalton, and then that's

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when Dalton came back at him, and everyone pulled him off,

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and then he started coming at everyone else in the house,

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and then that's when.

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Speaker 19: It went outside.

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Speaker 6: Several witnesses explained that the violence started when Dalton asked

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Isaac to leave. In response, Isaac shoved Dalton's girlfriend, arising,

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sending her crashing to the ground. The moment people saw

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Isaac put his hands on a woman, the atmosphere snapped,

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voices exploded in anger, and the confrontation spilled outside onto

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the driveway of the cabin.

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Speaker 10: What happens when they get outside?

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Speaker 13: There was a group of people telling him to leave.

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We told him we were about to call nine one

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one if he didn't leave. Everyone say no, no, his or

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his baby arms say.

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Speaker 7: No, no't call nine one one.

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Speaker 11: He's on probation.

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Speaker 12: He's gonna get in trouble.

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Speaker 6: A crowd quickly formed. A large group surrounded Isaac, telling

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him to leave. At the same time, a smaller group

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held Dalton back, trying to stop him from launching into

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a fistfight with Isaac like I was trying to.

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Speaker 18: Come out and Cray and all them me like it's

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not worth it. Just he's leaving. Cray Yeah, crazy right?

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Speaker 10: There is that real name?

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00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:39,399
Speaker 7: Yeah?

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Speaker 18: I think it's like c One.

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Speaker 6: Sorry to interrupt the flow of the story here, but

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I have a question, ask what the hell's going on

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with the names at this party? Cray, Sabra, Horizon, Teca,

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00:15:53,799 --> 00:15:55,919
and Cinnamon, just to name a few.

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Speaker 1: What the hell?

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Speaker 6: What kind of dope smoking bead wearing crystal charging music festival,

294
00:16:02,919 --> 00:16:07,080
attending double wide living minimum wage earning ANTIFA supporting wannabe

295
00:16:07,159 --> 00:16:11,120
hippie parents named these dumbass children, we gotta set up

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00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,279
your kin for success with a name like Cinnamon. By

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00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:18,279
the way, Sure that'll keep her off the pole. Next

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00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:24,639
up on stage, Cinneamon. Anyway, Dalton was being held back

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00:16:24,919 --> 00:16:27,720
by his friends who were telling him not to fight Isaac,

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00:16:28,399 --> 00:16:31,799
while several others were shouting at Isaac, telling him to

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00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:34,679
get into his car and pedal is a little lass

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00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:35,120
out of there?

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00:16:35,639 --> 00:16:38,919
Speaker 10: What did you see or observe from that time forward?

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00:16:39,679 --> 00:16:44,240
Speaker 13: A whole bunch of pushing okay, shouting, yelling, pushing, yelling,

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00:16:44,279 --> 00:16:46,559
shoving okay, And then what happened?

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00:16:47,279 --> 00:16:50,120
Speaker 18: He was essentially carried to his car by life three.

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00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,080
Speaker 22: Or four people trying to get him to like there

308
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,200
wasn't no him wanting to leave like he was.

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Speaker 10: Definitely, it was more like a forceful.

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Speaker 22: Like he had the yeah, like there was multiple guys

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00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,200
grabbing him and trying to shove him in his own car,

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trying to get him to just be gone.

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Speaker 10: Okay, and where.

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Speaker 20: Is yes in the car.

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00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 10: With him into the passenger seat okay.

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00:17:14,519 --> 00:17:17,079
Speaker 6: Several guys dragged Isaac to the driver's side of his

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00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:22,119
car at about the same time, Isaac's fiance Sabra, hopped

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00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,519
in the passenger seat of the same car.

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Speaker 26: So at this point they're in the car and there's

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00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,359
a couple of people like banging on the windows. He

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00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,720
gets mad and opens and he opened the door, and

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Charlie was one of the people that were.

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Speaker 18: Trying to get him in the car and get him

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to leave, and he.

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Speaker 20: Just happened to be the guy in front of the

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driver's door, just grabbing him for whatever reason and started

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stabbing him.

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Speaker 18: Like it was like six times too. I saw Charlie

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00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:52,799
fall to the ground.

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Speaker 10: Does he immediately get back in the car and leave?

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Speaker 18: What?

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00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:58,240
Speaker 10: What's the next course of action?

333
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,440
Speaker 20: Just gets in his car, slams the door and spends tires,

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00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,880
drags up the drop one d was.

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Speaker 18: Just so crazy.

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Speaker 13: I walk inside and then I think, like ten minutes after,

337
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:12,640
they come out and he.

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00:18:12,599 --> 00:18:15,920
Speaker 12: Said he just stabbed him. He just stabbed him. What

339
00:18:16,039 --> 00:18:17,599
is going on? What are you looking for? She's like,

340
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:19,240
Charlie just got stabbed.

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00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,559
Speaker 6: When Isaac was forced into his car, he reached into

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00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:27,519
the center console, pulled out a small work knife, grabbed

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00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:30,880
the nearest person and just started stabbing. I mean, that's

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00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,559
what I always do when I'm frustrated. His unlucky victim

345
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,559
was Charlie Starner. With no warning, Charlie was struck multiple times,

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including potentially fatal stabs to his back and neck. He

347
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:48,759
collapsed to the ground, bleeding heavily, while Isaac slammed his

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00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:52,920
car door shut and sped off with Sabra, you know,

349
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:54,599
like the hummus.

350
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:56,799
Speaker 8: I was standing up for a porch, and I watched

351
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him get stabbed right there next to my truck, and uh,

352
00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,279
Jimmy and the guy who's covered in blood. He carried

353
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,000
him over here to the other side of my truck.

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Speaker 12: Where the big pull of blood is.

355
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Speaker 8: And I opened up the back of my truck and

356
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started rummaging through and grabbing my mid kids.

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Speaker 6: Among the guests at the party was a young woman

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named Amanda Chapman who had a background in ems. When

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00:19:24,279 --> 00:19:27,279
Charlie went down, Amanda rushed to her truck, grabbed a

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medical kit, and began doing everything she could to help.

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00:19:30,839 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 10: Tonight was a story, and that was terrifying.

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Speaker 26: I understand completely well, the two that were out here,

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can you identify both of them?

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00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:42,720
Speaker 12: So Charlie is the one that I was of a

365
00:19:42,799 --> 00:19:43,559
sternal reb on.

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Speaker 10: I don't know the guy that was in the car of.

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Speaker 12: That stabbed him. I guess his girls lost with him.

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Speaker 8: Okay, everybody that's here right now, I really don't think

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00:19:55,519 --> 00:19:59,039
anything was malicious, but the dude who fled.

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00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:00,640
Speaker 10: Like was out to kill.

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00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:05,119
Speaker 6: Multiple people at the party called nine one one. As

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00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,720
they waited, they hovered helplessly around Charlie, watching Amanda and

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00:20:09,759 --> 00:20:13,240
a few others render what little aid they could. As

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Charlie was bleeding out on the ground. Everyone hoped that

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help would get there in time.

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Speaker 18: Did Charlie say anything?

377
00:20:21,519 --> 00:20:22,000
Speaker 7: I have.

378
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Speaker 18: I heard no words come out of that man's mouth.

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00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:25,119
And that's what I think.

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Speaker 7: That's what the most.

381
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Speaker 18: Charlie conscious or unconscious for while he was conscious, I

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00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:30,920
couldn't be outside for the rest of it.

383
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Speaker 7: I couldn't see to call his mom, let him, let.

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Speaker 18: Him know what's going on. When Charlie was conscious, he

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00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:36,440
didn't say nothing.

386
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Speaker 7: He didn't say nothing.

387
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Speaker 18: He didn't say what happened.

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00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 7: No, he couldn't, He couldn't, he couldn't. He was please No.

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00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,039
Speaker 6: While first responders were en route and throughout the rest

390
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:49,000
of the morning, Dalton's girlfriend exchanged text messages with Sabra,

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00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:53,400
who was presumably still sitting in the passenger seat next

392
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:53,920
to Isaac.

393
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Speaker 26: Did you have any contact with the suspect or Saber

394
00:20:57,559 --> 00:20:58,519
after they left here?

395
00:20:59,319 --> 00:21:02,279
Speaker 12: She texted me, and I texted her back.

396
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 10: Okay, what did the text me to say?

397
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,799
Speaker 13: She started two fifty six. I'm going to need my

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00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,319
shoes and my purse back.

399
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,440
Speaker 12: Hello. I need you to answer right now.

400
00:21:13,839 --> 00:21:14,160
Speaker 10: Hello.

401
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,319
Speaker 12: I said, we have your shit. You'll get it tomorrow.

402
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,000
She said, I have to have it. What the hell

403
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:20,359
was that?

404
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:21,079
Speaker 7: Hah?

405
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:24,559
Speaker 13: His friends jumped him. I said, you're not getting it

406
00:21:24,599 --> 00:21:27,839
till tomorrow. I said, you show up with you and Isaac.

407
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,000
It's all going to be bad.

408
00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:33,880
Speaker 6: What stood out most about this text exchange is what

409
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,759
wasn't said. At no point did Saber ask how Charlie

410
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,640
was doing. Her only concern was retrieving her purse and

411
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,000
a few other meaningless belongings she'd left behind at the cabin.

412
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Speaker 13: She said, I'm going to need my glasses, shoes, and

413
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:52,440
purse or 'all going to prison. She said, the key

414
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,000
to my goddamn work and if I don't get it back,

415
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,440
I'll call the fucking cops. And then she texts me

416
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,480
out four point thirty two. I need my shit, what's

417
00:22:00,519 --> 00:22:02,079
going on.

418
00:22:02,079 --> 00:22:05,480
Speaker 6: Once paramedics arrived, Charlie was quickly rushed to a trauma

419
00:22:05,559 --> 00:22:09,799
center and prepared for emergency surgery. Back at the cabin,

420
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,359
detectives got to work interviewing witnesses, searching the scene, and

421
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,400
trying to understand exactly what had gone down. While doing this,

422
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,240
they got some interesting news.

423
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,200
Speaker 4: Right yeah, allegedly suspects on his way back here.

424
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:24,920
Speaker 7: It's awesome.

425
00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 4: So they went to the hotel room where sabers mam

426
00:22:27,759 --> 00:22:28,160
is sang.

427
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 10: She told him to get their shit and get out.

428
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:32,279
Speaker 5: And I don't know if she doesn't know if he's

429
00:22:32,319 --> 00:22:32,839
coming back.

430
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,039
Speaker 10: To Tennis when he started or what.

431
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 6: The detectives learned that Isaac Pence was still furious and

432
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,480
it was headed back to the cabin. Apparently stabbing someone

433
00:22:44,559 --> 00:22:48,480
several times hadn't been enough for him. He wanted more blood.

434
00:22:49,599 --> 00:23:26,319
He wanted to finish what he had started. In the

435
00:23:26,319 --> 00:23:29,960
early morning hours of April twenty third, twenty twenty three,

436
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,200
twenty two year old Charlie Starner was clinging to his

437
00:23:33,279 --> 00:23:37,839
life after being stabbed multiple times at a party at

438
00:23:37,839 --> 00:23:41,559
a secluded rental cabin in the woods of Sugar Grove, Ohio.

439
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,200
And I mentioned how nice Ohio is at this time

440
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,720
of year. Ohio really is the heart of it all

441
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,319
when the heart isn't being stabbed, that is. As detectives

442
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,759
scrambled to make sense of this chaos, witness after witness

443
00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:02,160
identified the attacker as twenty year old Isaac Pence. They

444
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,319
also warned police that Isaac wasn't done. Apparently he planned

445
00:24:07,319 --> 00:24:10,880
a return to the cabin to finish what he started.

446
00:24:12,039 --> 00:24:15,680
To prevent another wave of violence. Officers were posted at

447
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,000
the end of the cabin's driveway where they braced for

448
00:24:19,279 --> 00:24:25,599
Isaac's return, but he never showed. By morning, police shifted

449
00:24:25,599 --> 00:24:29,599
gears and went looking for him. They found Isaac fast

450
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,480
asleep at the home that he shared with his mother, stepfather,

451
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,279
two younger siblings, and his fiance, the infamous Sabra Flag.

452
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:41,240
Officers took both Isaac and Sabra into custody and began

453
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:43,359
questioning Isaac's mom.

454
00:24:44,039 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 4: Do you normally keep their children on a regular Basela?

455
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:47,480
Speaker 3: Okay?

456
00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 5: And they go out and do whatever?

457
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 4: Any history of drug us in abouse?

458
00:24:53,279 --> 00:24:53,440
Speaker 22: No?

459
00:24:54,279 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 4: How about alcohol, yes, between both of them or one of.

460
00:24:58,079 --> 00:25:00,599
Speaker 7: Them her so much.

461
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,039
Speaker 4: But you know Isaac drinks just about every weekend.

462
00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 5: Would you say has anger issues?

463
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,759
Speaker 10: Oh yeah, totally, okay.

464
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: I mean sometimes he does get really mad when he's drinking.

465
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,400
Speaker 6: When detectives arrived at Isaac's home, they were met with

466
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,119
a few surprises. First, they discovered that Isaac and Sabra

467
00:25:20,279 --> 00:25:23,359
had two young children, a one year old and a

468
00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:26,599
four month old. Neither of them seemed to be carrying

469
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:32,160
themselves like parents, are you surprised or are you starting

470
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,000
to recognize patterns yet? The day to day care of

471
00:25:36,079 --> 00:25:40,000
the children fell mostly to Isaac's mother, who also informed

472
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,319
investigators that her son struggled with alcoholism and a history

473
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:45,400
of violent behavior.

474
00:25:46,839 --> 00:25:48,559
Speaker 7: Nuh duh.

475
00:25:48,599 --> 00:25:49,799
Speaker 5: How long have they lived here?

476
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,839
Speaker 4: Isaac's been here his whole life.

477
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 5: Sabra has been here on and off for the last

478
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,000
two years. Three years.

479
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 4: Is that about how long they've been together. They've been

480
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:06,279
together four years, four years?

481
00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 19: Okay.

482
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 6: Once they gathered enough background information on Isaac and Sabra,

483
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,119
detectives turned their focus to the night of the stabbing.

484
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,079
They asked Isaac's parents what they knew about the party

485
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:20,319
at the cabin.

486
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 12: Do you know where.

487
00:26:21,799 --> 00:26:23,559
Speaker 4: Isaac and Sabra were at last night?

488
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,519
Speaker 3: There's no clue, Okay, do you know what time they

489
00:26:26,599 --> 00:26:27,720
arrived back at the home.

490
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:30,559
Speaker 4: They showed up about five o'clock because they're working me

491
00:26:30,599 --> 00:26:32,720
up beating on the door. Okay, so they were beaten

492
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:34,960
on the door. Arrived back here at about five am.

493
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,839
Did they say anything when they came in? Not really,

494
00:26:38,079 --> 00:26:40,799
did you notice anything out of the norm. It just

495
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,960
seemed like they were like irritated and like mad.

496
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 5: Okay.

497
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,680
Speaker 6: Another thing that took detectives by surprise was the state

498
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,039
of the home. You see, it was completely filthy. There

499
00:26:54,079 --> 00:26:57,319
was trash thrown about everywhere, and the stench of urine

500
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:03,119
and dogshit was just oh overwhelming. Then again this was Ohio,

501
00:27:03,599 --> 00:27:04,519
how long has your house.

502
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:04,960
Speaker 17: Been like this?

503
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 18: So the scores, you know, a hole here there at

504
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,839
the wall, and trash and the order what I'm talking

505
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:14,720
trash in the house.

506
00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:17,559
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, yeah, we've we've had a health time trying

507
00:27:17,559 --> 00:27:21,079
to keep everything cleaned up since you know, we don't

508
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:23,960
have any health at all, and like I'm recuperating from

509
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,359
a heart attack. So we just had a heart attack

510
00:27:26,599 --> 00:27:29,279
and I was the one that had I had a

511
00:27:29,319 --> 00:27:34,000
tester erical and it's pemonia level in your house is ridiculous.

512
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,880
Speaker 6: Concerned by the smell detectives tested for ammonia levels inside

513
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:43,640
the home. The results were off the charts, which is

514
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,839
an extreme health risk, especially for children. When asked about it,

515
00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:52,079
Isaac's parents pointed the finger squarely at Isaac and Sabra.

516
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 9: But the whole doll thing that they've had that bed

517
00:27:56,079 --> 00:27:59,480
roude the whole time that they've had that doll here.

518
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:02,480
They don't take it out to use the bathroom for

519
00:28:02,599 --> 00:28:04,559
an elfandles just she's the bathroom everywhere.

520
00:28:04,799 --> 00:28:05,519
Speaker 7: Yeah.

521
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 6: After removing Isaac and Sabra from their disgusting home, officers

522
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,440
transported both of them to the Sheriff's office. Once there,

523
00:28:14,559 --> 00:28:16,680
Sabra was the first to be interviewed.

524
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: My brother's the one who's through the party for his birthday, right, yes.

525
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:21,160
Speaker 5: For his birthday.

526
00:28:22,279 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 2: Darlon's black and he I already talked it with him,

527
00:28:26,279 --> 00:28:28,839
and I was like, you because they've you, my brother

528
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,319
Isaac have had some issues in the past, but they

529
00:28:31,319 --> 00:28:32,400
were trying to get over.

530
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,519
Speaker 11: It because my brother wanted to be more involved in

531
00:28:34,559 --> 00:28:36,400
my life. He wanted to be more involved in his

532
00:28:36,519 --> 00:28:37,440
nephew's life.

533
00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:38,599
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, he's.

534
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:39,359
Speaker 11: Part of my life, you know.

535
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 7: I love them.

536
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 11: I want to work things out with him. He's to

537
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,200
bothering both of my kids. So he was like, yeah,

538
00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,319
this fine, you guys can come, you know, just no drama.

539
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:47,319
I was like, yeah, he's fine.

540
00:28:47,319 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 2: He's probably not even drinking, and if he does, he's

541
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:50,680
all I want to drink a little bit because we.

542
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 4: Have to go home.

543
00:28:51,279 --> 00:28:52,119
Speaker 18: I have to open.

544
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,039
Speaker 6: Saber began her interview by explaining how she and Isaac

545
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,680
ended up at her brother Dalton's birthday party at the cabin.

546
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,559
She admitted Dalton didn't want Isaac there, but she had

547
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:08,119
convinced him that there would be no drama. That promise,

548
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:12,759
of course, was broken. Sabra went on to describe how

549
00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:16,880
the night changed from fun and happy times to horrible,

550
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,920
bloody violence, and all of.

551
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,519
Speaker 2: A sudden, I hear this that, like, you know, arguing,

552
00:29:22,519 --> 00:29:24,559
and I was like, oh my gosh, please, it's not

553
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:25,200
with Isaac.

554
00:29:25,759 --> 00:29:28,640
Speaker 5: I go out and I hear like a bunch.

555
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:29,319
Speaker 7: Of different stories.

556
00:29:29,799 --> 00:29:31,599
Speaker 2: Isaac and a few other people are saying that he

557
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,119
accidentally pushed Horizon, which is.

558
00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:35,039
Speaker 11: My brother's girlfriend.

559
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,839
Speaker 2: Then my brother was sitting here saying he intentionally pushed her.

560
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:41,799
I don't think he intentionally pushed her. He's not the

561
00:29:41,839 --> 00:29:45,559
type of person. He's not violent, especially with girls, so

562
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,759
I know he's not that type of person.

563
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 11: And they're sitting here arguing.

564
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,039
Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk to Isaac to calm down, because

565
00:29:53,279 --> 00:29:55,359
I'm like one of the only people that can coming down.

566
00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 11: I'm like, okay, let's just you.

567
00:29:56,599 --> 00:29:58,759
Speaker 2: Know, if anything, let's just go in your car, sit

568
00:29:58,839 --> 00:30:00,559
for like a couple of hours, and then he can

569
00:30:00,599 --> 00:30:05,680
go home. And then they followed us outside. They all

570
00:30:05,759 --> 00:30:09,079
start like like trying to fight Isaac all at the

571
00:30:09,119 --> 00:30:13,160
same time. I don't know exactly who it was because

572
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,680
there were so many people, but I know that there

573
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:17,839
was like three or four people trying to fight Isaac

574
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:18,559
at the same time.

575
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 6: Sabra's version of events clashed with just about every other witness.

576
00:30:24,319 --> 00:30:28,599
According to her, Isaac wasn't the aggressor. He was the

577
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,559
victim back into a corner and forced to defend himself

578
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:34,960
against a group of guys just looking for a fight

579
00:30:35,079 --> 00:30:38,200
out of nowhere. Oh my gosh.

580
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:42,839
Speaker 2: And it was like ten guys, all my brother's friends,

581
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,960
and this guy I think his name is Clay.

582
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,799
Speaker 11: He pushed Isaac and Isaac got flying back into a

583
00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:53,599
car and Isaac I don't know if he like pushed

584
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,119
him or back or what he did, but I tried.

585
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:58,799
Speaker 2: To intervene and I was like, and he's just trying

586
00:30:58,799 --> 00:31:00,240
to protect himself.

587
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,079
Speaker 12: Like there's like ten guys jumping him.

588
00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:05,079
Speaker 11: And I was like, I was like, it's not his soul.

589
00:31:05,599 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 4: And somehow I.

590
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 2: Fall and they were like trampling all over and I

591
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:13,400
have big bruise on my knee. And then I still

592
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:18,440
hear them fighting over here and Isaac he got in

593
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:19,960
the car and he goes, Saber.

594
00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:21,039
Speaker 1: Come on, come on, come on.

595
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 2: Then I got in the car and he drove off

596
00:31:24,039 --> 00:31:26,519
because I think people were coming back at him.

597
00:31:26,319 --> 00:31:27,839
Speaker 11: And he was like, OK, God, I'm done, and so

598
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:28,920
we just drove off.

599
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 6: There was one glaring omission and Saber's story. Did you

600
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,880
catch it? I'll give you a hint. It has to

601
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:40,519
do with pointy things going stabby stabby. Weird how she

602
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:44,000
missed the most interesting part of the story, huh. Naturally,

603
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,839
detectives pressed her about this.

604
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 2: I didn't even know someone got stabbed until way after

605
00:31:49,559 --> 00:31:51,880
it left, and I was like, I think I sat

606
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:52,279
that dude.

607
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 5: I think I stabbed him.

608
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 11: I was like, what the heck do you mean he's like,

609
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,240
I think I stabbed him.

610
00:31:56,599 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, I like you literally

611
00:31:59,039 --> 00:32:01,319
ran away, like not what you should do.

612
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:05,359
Speaker 6: Saber claimed she hadn't seen anyone get stabbed, and that

613
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,480
she only heard about it afterwards. She wasn't too curious

614
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:11,720
about it either. In fact, she doesn't seem to be

615
00:32:11,759 --> 00:32:16,079
too curious about anything really. When asked where she and

616
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,480
Isaac went after fleeing the cabin, she said they made

617
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,400
a quick stop at a friend's house, someone named Justin,

618
00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:24,000
before heading home.

619
00:32:24,599 --> 00:32:27,119
Speaker 7: So when you were at Justin's house, what did you

620
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:27,680
guys do there?

621
00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:32,160
Speaker 2: So we sed to self there to look at Isaac's car,

622
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200
and then I went in and p our use of

623
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,440
afron and I came out and I was looking at

624
00:32:38,519 --> 00:32:39,880
Isa's car with him and Justin.

625
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:42,519
Speaker 11: They smelled to Sarah and then we left and then

626
00:32:42,559 --> 00:32:43,440
we went straight home.

627
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 6: This brief stop at Justin's would eventually become an important

628
00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:51,119
part of this case, but more on that later. After

629
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,000
questioning Sabra, detectives moved on to Isaac.

630
00:32:54,839 --> 00:32:57,240
Speaker 7: Who you live there with my mom? Instead of do

631
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,720
I get a little brother? Litle's okay?

632
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:06,599
Speaker 16: Then Sabra and my two kids and my fielance.

633
00:33:06,559 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 11: Okay, all right, And how old are your children?

634
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 7: One is one and one is four months. How far

635
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,960
did you make it through school? About? I think eleventh grade?

636
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,920
Eleventh grade? Okay, did you get your ged or anything?

637
00:33:22,359 --> 00:33:22,519
Speaker 22: Now?

638
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 16: I went straight into concrete as sin as I turned eighteen,

639
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:30,279
and I wanted to go and get a different career.

640
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,799
Speaker 7: But every time I go, when I started different jobs.

641
00:33:33,559 --> 00:33:36,039
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, well, just pull it off, pull off,

642
00:33:36,039 --> 00:33:36,559
pull it off.

643
00:33:36,759 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 7: Okay, so I'm wanting to at some point.

644
00:33:39,079 --> 00:33:45,279
Speaker 6: Okay, Detective's got more background info from Isaac, this overachiever.

645
00:33:46,279 --> 00:33:50,039
This criminal background wasn't extensive, but it was certainly concerning.

646
00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:52,599
Speaker 7: Have you been in trouble or anything at all?

647
00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:56,359
Speaker 16: Yeah, okay, for what I've got an assault change on

648
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,039
her mom, you know, assault charge on her mom.

649
00:33:59,279 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 7: Yeah, agos out this month.

650
00:34:04,799 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 11: Yeah.

651
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 7: I cannot win with the family.

652
00:34:07,599 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 6: I cannot win with this family, he said, after admitting

653
00:34:10,519 --> 00:34:14,159
to an assault charge on his girlfriend's mom, you know,

654
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:18,840
his kid's grandma. He says this matter of factly and

655
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:23,119
completely un ironically. I swear you'll never convince a retard.

656
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:27,079
They're not a genius. Going forward, You'll start to see

657
00:34:27,079 --> 00:34:29,440
a pattern here with Isaac. If you're smart enough to

658
00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,360
see patterns. Nothing is ever his fault.

659
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,519
Speaker 5: So it sounds like you guys came up here for

660
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:38,280
a birthday party. Is that correct?

661
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 7: Yeah, it was brother's birthday. Me and her brothers never

662
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:45,800
get along.

663
00:34:46,119 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 16: Okay, it was in their whole time, and it's like,

664
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:52,280
this is a b idea I want to make her happy.

665
00:34:53,119 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 7: It sounds like, you know, I will try to put

666
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,480
my PRIs on it. Let's go ahead and go. Okay,

667
00:34:59,039 --> 00:35:00,679
we were there. Thing was good.

668
00:35:02,039 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 16: Well, everything was completely fine, and we're having a good time.

669
00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 6: Isaac claimed that he didn't want to go to Dalton's

670
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,079
birthday party, but out of the goodness of his heart,

671
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,159
he decided that being there would make Saber happy. What

672
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:20,280
a selfless stand up guy he is.

673
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:24,320
Speaker 16: We're all seeing right here in the hallway, and someone

674
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:28,440
did pushing me, so I pushed him back. Well, Dunton

675
00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:32,800
thought that I pushed his girlfriend wise, and so he

676
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,440
got all of his stuff. That's when everyone tried to

677
00:35:35,519 --> 00:35:38,960
jump me. Well, I kind of know what I'm doing

678
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,440
a little bit, so I started throwing them to the side.

679
00:35:44,559 --> 00:35:46,719
I went outside, and that's when they started trying to

680
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,960
him at me. It was all at once and so

681
00:35:50,079 --> 00:35:52,559
I was just tossing to the side and they all

682
00:35:52,679 --> 00:35:53,239
just kept going.

683
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,039
Speaker 7: So I went to my car. I shouldn't do her.

684
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,840
S Hey, if you want to go, then where you want.

685
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,480
Well they came and they got the.

686
00:36:02,599 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 16: Hoss car and they took her sunglasses, I know, her

687
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,239
actual glasses, and her purse out trying to keep her

688
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:11,000
just stay.

689
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,519
Speaker 7: There, and I was like, well, with everything going on,

690
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:15,199
like I'm going to leave.

691
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 6: Much like Sabra Isaac's version of events clashed with every

692
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,480
other witness. That's because absolutely no murder and the history

693
00:36:23,519 --> 00:36:26,880
of mankind has ever started with a completely innocent dude

694
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:31,119
getting pushed and mobbed at a festive gathering for absolutely

695
00:36:31,159 --> 00:36:34,800
no reason. But don't let common sense smack it across

696
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:35,199
the face.

697
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,159
Speaker 16: Once they started sitting there trying to bust the glass

698
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,079
to get to me, that's when I put out a knife.

699
00:36:41,119 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 7: I was like, hey, you need back up, and they

700
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,480
didn't want listen. No one want to listen. So you

701
00:36:47,519 --> 00:36:49,679
were in your car, So what did you do? Did

702
00:36:49,679 --> 00:36:52,000
you open the car a little back up? No, they

703
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,159
ended up opening my car door. They did. Yeah.

704
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:59,079
Speaker 16: It was two or three guys were sitting there and

705
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:01,320
they're just yanking. I was trying to hold it as

706
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,199
good as I could. They want I was like, listen,

707
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:06,400
just start poking.

708
00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 7: Out a little bit, okay.

709
00:37:08,679 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 16: I didn't try to do it to physically hurting body

710
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:14,320
really bad, but I did just like like, hey, I

711
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,639
have a knife, come down. They wouldn't stop. They just

712
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:21,719
kept going. So I tried to step the one guy

713
00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:23,360
in the arm just so they would get it.

714
00:37:24,119 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 7: So he was right there beside you. Yeah, he opened

715
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:29,039
my corriwor and he's coming trying to grab me. He's

716
00:37:29,079 --> 00:37:31,039
coming to try to grab me. Yeah, that's why I

717
00:37:31,119 --> 00:37:32,119
st to have his arm.

718
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:32,519
Speaker 27: Well.

719
00:37:32,559 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 7: As soon as I stepped him in the arm, they left.

720
00:37:36,119 --> 00:37:40,639
Speaker 16: The Let you guys took off completely, okay, And that's

721
00:37:40,639 --> 00:37:41,519
when Saber got.

722
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 7: In the car and I took off.

723
00:37:44,199 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 6: Isaac also claimed that he only stabbed Charlie in the arm,

724
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,159
but the detectives obviously knew better. After all, they weren't

725
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:57,360
retarded like Isaac. They of course knew Charlie had been

726
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,320
stabbed multiple times all over his body. This was a

727
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,079
careless lie on Isaac's part, and one that would make

728
00:38:05,159 --> 00:38:07,599
him look way more guilty.

729
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 7: He stabbed the guy in the yarm one time. I

730
00:38:11,519 --> 00:38:15,239
think it was voice twice. Are you? Are you sure

731
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,840
wasn't more than that, because there's more stab wounds than that.

732
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:19,880
I didn't think I was.

733
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,679
Speaker 16: Because I'd tried to just get him to go with.

734
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,159
I was not trying to hurt him, didn't want he added,

735
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:33,719
I just wanted him to go with because there's fifteen.

736
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:38,079
Speaker 6: Us as a friend, Jean stabbing someone as a preventative measure.

737
00:38:39,119 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, okay.

738
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:45,280
Speaker 6: After giving this bullshit version of the stabbing, Isaac went

739
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:47,599
on to tell two more lies that would later come

740
00:38:47,639 --> 00:38:48,719
back to haunt him.

741
00:38:49,039 --> 00:38:51,679
Speaker 7: So did did you go? Where'd you go after that?

742
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:56,519
I went straight home? Okay, you're knife. You don't know

743
00:38:56,639 --> 00:38:57,639
exactly where you put it.

744
00:38:57,679 --> 00:39:01,400
Speaker 16: They're looking for a new car right now, no clue wordness,

745
00:39:01,559 --> 00:39:05,079
it's in my car or it that was that property.

746
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 6: Not only did Isaac's story contradict at least ten other

747
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,039
witness statements, but it didn't even align with Saber's story.

748
00:39:14,119 --> 00:39:17,519
These two idiots couldn't even get their story straight. He

749
00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:20,559
told detectives that after the stabbing, he went straight home,

750
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:25,599
conveniently leaving out the stop at Justin's house. Naturally, detectives

751
00:39:25,599 --> 00:39:29,400
were curious about why he would lie about that. They

752
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,960
planned to reach out to Justin and question him about

753
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,000
Isaac's early morning visit to his house, but before they

754
00:39:36,119 --> 00:39:40,559
got the chance, Justin called them, Tarry friend.

755
00:39:40,519 --> 00:39:43,679
Speaker 25: Showed up to my house like breath thirty this morning, drunk,

756
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,039
and he was flipping out, like saying that he got

757
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:49,880
jumped at some party that he was at and he

758
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,440
had to use an IF on someone.

759
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,519
Speaker 10: And I told him they didn't want.

760
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 25: To hear antonom he needed to leave and turn himself

761
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,199
in because he can't just make something like that go

762
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:01,719
away for a He threw the knife over there.

763
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 6: Justin told detectives that Isaac tossed a knife into a

764
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:10,679
bush near Justin's driveway. Police then recovered the weapon, which

765
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,559
was still spattered with Charlie's blood. In a follow up interview,

766
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,880
Justin also revealed something else Isaac had talked about returning

767
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,840
to the cabin to do even more damage.

768
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,039
Speaker 7: He did say.

769
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,199
Speaker 25: Stuff like that of your house kind of it was

770
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,360
more of like he just wanted to go back and

771
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:31,719
beat up the other people that were trying to jump him.

772
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 7: Okay, all right.

773
00:40:34,239 --> 00:40:39,679
Speaker 6: As the investigation deepened, more of Isaac's lies unraveled. Detectives

774
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:43,000
learned that after ditching the knife, he and Sabra made

775
00:40:43,079 --> 00:40:47,719
yet another stop, this time to visit Sabro's mother.

776
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 5: So they did end up coming to your place.

777
00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,639
Speaker 11: Yes, they were there fifteen twenty minute.

778
00:40:54,639 --> 00:40:55,800
Speaker 5: I don't even think twenty minutes.

779
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 19: He's just talking about how he was going to get

780
00:40:58,400 --> 00:40:59,159
what he needed.

781
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,000
Speaker 5: And he was going out out there.

782
00:41:02,079 --> 00:41:05,760
Speaker 6: By now, detectives had gathered multiple witness statements that pretty

783
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,320
much proved both Isaac and Sabra had lied about what

784
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,119
led up to the stabbing, the stabbing itself, and what

785
00:41:13,159 --> 00:41:17,039
they did afterwards. But the most damning evidence was still

786
00:41:17,079 --> 00:41:17,519
to come.

787
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,800
Speaker 12: There is a camera on cabin six, Is that correct?

788
00:41:22,519 --> 00:41:22,639
Speaker 11: Yes?

789
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:24,639
Speaker 12: Would it have been.

790
00:41:24,559 --> 00:41:28,440
Speaker 7: Recording at all or doing any kind of recording last.

791
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 9: Night video but on audio audio.

792
00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:38,599
Speaker 22: I need that video preserved, and I need to get

793
00:41:38,639 --> 00:41:41,239
that video here at our office as soon as I

794
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:41,800
can get it.

795
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,760
Speaker 6: Detectives contacted the owner of the rental cabin, who turned

796
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:50,280
over surveillance footage from a motion activated camera mounted on

797
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:54,000
the front porch. Though it didn't capture the stabbing, it

798
00:41:54,039 --> 00:41:57,320
revealed the moments leading up to it. The footage showed

799
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,440
what several witnesses had already described. Near the front porch

800
00:42:01,519 --> 00:42:04,599
of the cabin, Dalton's friends physically held Dalton away from

801
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:07,880
Isaac to keep him from fighting. At the same time,

802
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,880
a group surrounded Isaac gesturing for him to leave. There's

803
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,880
no audio, but the body language is clear they weren't

804
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:19,400
looking for a fight. Then Isaac threw a wild punch

805
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:24,760
at the crowd. It missed. Someone shoved him back against

806
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:29,159
a parked car. A few partygoers then grabbed Isaac and

807
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,960
carried him towards his car, right out of the camera's view.

808
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,480
See how that series of events actually makes sense? Or

809
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,840
are you also from Ohio? Yeah, I'm talking to you.

810
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,360
This footage was pretty important as it showed the partygoers

811
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,639
were not trying to hurt Isaac. They just wanted him

812
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:51,719
to leave before things got worse. But this wasn't the

813
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:53,880
only video that detectives recovered.

814
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,280
Speaker 8: Well, I flew off the porch so fast and I

815
00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,360
ended up on record of my truck because I thought

816
00:42:59,400 --> 00:42:59,760
Isaac was.

817
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,519
Speaker 2: Going to in my car, so I started recording the

818
00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:04,719
video in the circumstance.

819
00:43:04,119 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 28: That he hit record, and I captured the entire stabbing.

820
00:43:09,119 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 6: Remember Amanda Chapman, she's the young woman who rushed to

821
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,639
Charlie's side after the stabbing. She had the presence of

822
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:18,840
mind to pull out her phone and hit record when

823
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,800
the fight started. What you're about to hear comes from

824
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,719
Amanda's cell phone. These are the final seconds just before

825
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,639
the stabbing.

826
00:43:34,079 --> 00:43:35,599
Speaker 12: My car Watch It.

827
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:54,159
Speaker 6: Savages. Amanda's footage begins with Isaac halfway sitting in the

828
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,760
driver's seat, his door cracked open, and his one foot

829
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,440
on the ground outside of his Several people are trying

830
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:06,639
to close the door, but Isaac resists, pushing back against them.

831
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,519
People are shouting, get the hell out of here and

832
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:13,760
get in your car. No one is threatening Isaac, no

833
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:18,880
one is swinging. They just want him gone. Charlie Starner

834
00:44:19,119 --> 00:44:23,400
is among the voices the video shows, embracing against the door,

835
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:28,239
trying to keep Isaac in the car. Then, without warning,

836
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,159
Isaac grabs a knife from the center console. He stands,

837
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,960
slips part way out of the car, and opens the blade.

838
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,559
What follows is horrifying. In the audio, you can hear

839
00:44:40,639 --> 00:44:43,800
the metallic click of the knife being opened, right before

840
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:49,599
Isaac swings again and again, plunging the blade into Charlie's back,

841
00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:54,079
neck and anywhere that Isaac can reach. Fair warning, this

842
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,679
next bit of audio is not an easy listen.

843
00:44:59,559 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 11: Car.

844
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,039
Speaker 6: The video cuts off, but witnesses filled in the rest.

845
00:45:09,639 --> 00:45:13,559
After the stabbing, Charlie collapsed, his friends dragged him away,

846
00:45:13,599 --> 00:45:16,239
while Isaac slammed the car door shut and sped off

847
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,199
with Sabra or whatever the fucker name is. Later, more

848
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,960
surveillance footage surface, this time from Justin's house. On it,

849
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,760
Isaac can be seen tossing the knife into a bush

850
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,199
before disappearing into the night. Isaac had already lied to

851
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,280
detectives during his first interview, but now armed with this

852
00:45:36,599 --> 00:45:40,400
overwhelming evidence, they questioned him a second time, and they

853
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,880
had some devastating news.

854
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 3: What you did last night is fucked up. You killed somebody.

855
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:49,199
He's dead and died.

856
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,159
Speaker 5: He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world

857
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,440
lost a father.

858
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 4: He leaves behind a nine and a half month old son.

859
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:01,599
Speaker 5: Named jet Okay. A mother and father lost their son.

860
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 3: A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on

861
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,320
for several minutes waiting.

862
00:46:06,039 --> 00:46:07,679
Speaker 5: For a medic to get there to try and save

863
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:08,320
his life.

864
00:46:09,079 --> 00:46:11,639
Speaker 4: He died at Grant's morning, and you're facing murder charges.

865
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:16,639
Speaker 6: Roughly five and a half hours after the stabbing, Charlie

866
00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:22,440
Starner died at Grant Medical Center in Columbus, Ohio. Despite

867
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:28,159
the doctor's best efforts and emergency surgery, Charlie's heart gave out.

868
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,559
With his death, the case shifted and got a whole

869
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:37,239
lot more serious. Both Isaac Pence and Saber Flagg were

870
00:46:37,239 --> 00:47:12,840
now facing murder charges in a lifetime behind bars. On

871
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,599
April twenty third, twenty twenty three, twenty year old Isaac

872
00:47:16,679 --> 00:47:20,000
Pence and his fiance Sabra Flag were taken into police

873
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,039
custody after a night of violence at a cabin party

874
00:47:23,559 --> 00:47:28,000
that left twenty two year old Charlie Starner dead. Isaac

875
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:31,760
and Sabra lied repeatedly during their first interviews with detectives,

876
00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:36,239
hoping to cover their tracks, but when detectives brought them

877
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:40,880
back for a second round, this time armed with overwhelming evidence,

878
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:46,880
their lies began to unravel. They started with Sabra and

879
00:47:46,960 --> 00:47:50,679
quickly broke the tragic news that Charlie was dead.

880
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 4: So, mother to mother, you.

881
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,119
Speaker 29: Love your children, right, okay, and you want to see

882
00:47:56,159 --> 00:48:00,199
your kids again some day because today somebody.

883
00:48:00,159 --> 00:48:01,039
Speaker 4: Actions made it so.

884
00:48:01,119 --> 00:48:04,159
Speaker 29: A mother lost her son, a father lost his son,

885
00:48:05,159 --> 00:48:10,119
somebody lost their boyfriend. Okay, several friends lost another friend

886
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,800
who bled out at the hands of someone that you care.

887
00:48:13,679 --> 00:48:19,519
Speaker 4: About, and you know something, I really I don't. You

888
00:48:19,559 --> 00:48:21,440
were there, Yeah, but I didn't.

889
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 11: I didn't know he got stabbed.

890
00:48:23,519 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 4: I didn't.

891
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,199
Speaker 11: I didn't know that until after he would left.

892
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 10: I swear, if.

893
00:48:29,119 --> 00:48:31,559
Speaker 3: You're trying to protect this man, you're going to go

894
00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:32,840
down as an accomplished from her.

895
00:48:33,039 --> 00:48:34,639
Speaker 7: I'm not. I promise.

896
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 3: You know something, and your allegiance to this man is

897
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:40,239
going to get you nowhere, because let me tell you,

898
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:40,960
he's going to prison.

899
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 7: I didn't.

900
00:48:42,639 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 17: I didn't.

901
00:48:43,039 --> 00:48:44,119
Speaker 12: I swear on anything.

902
00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 11: I did not know he got subbed until after we left.

903
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,239
I'm not trying to protect him.

904
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,639
Speaker 4: So what did he say after he stabbed him? Because

905
00:48:50,639 --> 00:48:53,519
you guys drove away together, he had to up said something.

906
00:48:54,119 --> 00:48:54,559
Speaker 12: He didn't.

907
00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,639
Speaker 11: He really didn't, he said, I don't want to think

908
00:48:57,639 --> 00:48:59,360
he said anything. He just got in the car. I

909
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:00,199
want the car.

910
00:49:00,599 --> 00:49:04,199
Speaker 2: I didn't know, and I didn't know until ten or

911
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,000
so minutes later that he said, I.

912
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:09,559
Speaker 11: Think I think I stepped someone and someone something along

913
00:49:09,559 --> 00:49:12,039
the lines of that. I didn't know, because if I

914
00:49:12,039 --> 00:49:13,400
would have known, I would have left.

915
00:49:13,400 --> 00:49:18,119
Speaker 6: That promise detectives confronted Sabro with the harsh reality of

916
00:49:18,119 --> 00:49:23,559
her situation, but she continued to resist coming clean. She

917
00:49:23,639 --> 00:49:27,760
maintained her efforts to downplay Isaac's behavior and minimize what

918
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:28,599
he had done.

919
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:32,199
Speaker 7: He died, he's dead, he's gone.

920
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:40,639
Speaker 2: You know, So.

921
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:41,159
Speaker 7: You were honest you today.

922
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:45,039
Speaker 5: See, it's the paramount of what we need now.

923
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 7: Okay, I spoke to your mother on the time.

924
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:53,039
Speaker 5: So did I want you to be honest? I'm not.

925
00:49:54,199 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 7: You know he's against wim correct. He's been violent before

926
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:57,880
against swimming.

927
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 5: Correct. He was violent against your own mama.

928
00:50:00,039 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 11: Talking about he so, yes, he did push my mom?

929
00:50:04,039 --> 00:50:07,239
Speaker 2: Did what he pushed my mom because he went to

930
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:08,000
court for it.

931
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 11: He told me earlier that he would never do that

932
00:50:11,079 --> 00:50:13,440
to a woman. Correctly, I totally forgot about my mom.

933
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:14,039
Speaker 10: I'm so sorry.

934
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 5: I help you get your mom.

935
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:16,519
Speaker 7: How can you forget about your mom?

936
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:17,800
Speaker 5: He trying to protect him.

937
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:20,679
Speaker 3: I'm I'm going to tell you that I talked to

938
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,480
his parents and they said that he's an explosive, angry,

939
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:25,719
violent and drunk.

940
00:50:26,199 --> 00:50:26,559
Speaker 4: He is.

941
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 7: He is.

942
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,159
Speaker 2: He's never been like like aggressive to me. He just

943
00:50:33,679 --> 00:50:37,000
he gets aggressive and he'll like he pushes back when she'll.

944
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:39,679
Speaker 11: He does stupid things when he's drunk. I always the

945
00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:40,559
first swim with thought.

946
00:50:41,119 --> 00:50:45,760
Speaker 6: This was another lie. Out of all the detective interviews,

947
00:50:47,559 --> 00:50:51,360
was the last one, the very last person to admit

948
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:55,000
that Isaac had a habit of becoming violent when he drank.

949
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you right now that my specialty

950
00:50:58,519 --> 00:51:04,079
is domestic violence, sexual assault, and crimes against children and

951
00:51:04,119 --> 00:51:07,119
the living conditions that your children are in.

952
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:12,679
Speaker 30: Our crime a deplorable, sickening crime. I'm thirty five years

953
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:17,079
old and I could barely breathe in that house. I

954
00:51:17,159 --> 00:51:20,880
went to where you sleep, like, do you think that

955
00:51:21,039 --> 00:51:24,760
this is normal, that this is an okay situation? Is

956
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:26,480
this what you want your babies growing up in?

957
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:27,199
Speaker 27: Definitely not.

958
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 11: We were trying to save up for an apartment at

959
00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:30,480
our house.

960
00:51:30,639 --> 00:51:32,800
Speaker 2: We were just trying to find some somewhere to go

961
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:34,000
on our own because we don't.

962
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 5: I vaguely am the mess on Isaac and you.

963
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,280
Speaker 3: There's dog feces everywhere there.

964
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,599
Speaker 4: The ammonia in that house is horrible.

965
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:45,360
Speaker 29: We've made a.

966
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 4: Referral to have your children emergency.

967
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:52,880
Speaker 3: I'm going to tell you that the living conditions, the trash.

968
00:51:52,559 --> 00:51:56,199
Speaker 30: The bugs, the cobwebs, the lack of running water.

969
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 5: That's it's not normal. Your babies are going to get sick.

970
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,000
Speaker 4: And if you care anything about your baby's take to

971
00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:07,400
heart what Lieutenant m Night is telling you. I'm gonna

972
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:08,760
tell you know how. I know you're full of shit.

973
00:52:10,000 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 3: You went to your mom's, you went to Justin's all

974
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:14,159
before you went back to the house.

975
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,719
Speaker 4: I talked to your mom.

976
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:18,039
Speaker 18: I did go to the moms.

977
00:52:18,079 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 11: I'm totally forgot. I'm so sorry.

978
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,079
Speaker 28: Are you forgetting because you were drunk, or you forgetting

979
00:52:23,079 --> 00:52:26,000
because you were high because she doesn't.

980
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:26,239
Speaker 7: Want to tell us?

981
00:52:26,239 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 6: The truth was smacked with more and more evidence that

982
00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:33,920
exposed your bullshit, and it just kept coming.

983
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,360
Speaker 4: You told your mommy you were going.

984
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:36,119
Speaker 5: To come back to the house.

985
00:52:36,159 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 3: Of the matter of fact, you said you were going

986
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,199
to stop by Isaac's house and you guys.

987
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 4: Were coming back to the cabin because you were going

988
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,519
to get your shit. I don't you texted, You texted

989
00:52:44,559 --> 00:52:45,079
a horizon.

990
00:52:45,599 --> 00:52:47,159
Speaker 5: I saw the messages. You said.

991
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,119
Speaker 29: I need my purse, I need my shoes, I need

992
00:52:50,119 --> 00:52:53,119
my glasses. If I don't get those things back, somebody,

993
00:52:53,159 --> 00:52:54,280
I'm calling the cops.

994
00:52:54,760 --> 00:52:56,639
Speaker 4: Those were your priorities.

995
00:52:56,199 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 29: Not hey, my man, sab somebody, how's that kid's condition?

996
00:53:00,119 --> 00:53:03,440
Speaker 7: Not once today have you asked about how he was?

997
00:53:03,920 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 18: I had you have no care?

998
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:11,599
Speaker 4: Oh did you know that he has a ten month

999
00:53:11,599 --> 00:53:12,039
old son.

1000
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 5: I didn't name jet.

1001
00:53:14,199 --> 00:53:15,599
Speaker 11: I honestly had no clue.

1002
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:17,079
Speaker 5: So now you.

1003
00:53:17,159 --> 00:53:20,960
Speaker 4: Left another baby without a parent, just like your kids are.

1004
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 3: Going to be left without their parents because you guys

1005
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,760
are gonna go sit in PRIs for the next twenty.

1006
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:26,039
Speaker 4: Five years to life for murder.

1007
00:53:26,679 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 6: When faced with a lengthy prison sentence, the only thing

1008
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,519
these idiots understand. It seemed like the detectives had finally

1009
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:37,480
broken through to Sabra and she agreed to tell the

1010
00:53:37,519 --> 00:53:40,000
full truth. At least that's what she claimed.

1011
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,639
Speaker 24: His time to stop lying and tell us the truth

1012
00:53:44,679 --> 00:53:45,679
because you're leaving stuff.

1013
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 5: I don't trying to sugarcoat it.

1014
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:49,440
Speaker 7: All we're asking for you to do is the truth.

1015
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,559
The only thing you have is your word, and you're

1016
00:53:51,559 --> 00:53:52,320
not telling us.

1017
00:53:52,199 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 11: The whole truth or a Now, okay, I'll start a promise.

1018
00:53:56,559 --> 00:53:58,599
Speaker 7: What did you see about the stabbing.

1019
00:54:00,079 --> 00:54:00,559
Speaker 5: And see it?

1020
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 2: And I'm being completely trustful on everything. I didn't see

1021
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,280
any or get stabbing and see anyone fall to the floor.

1022
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:08,920
I didn't see anything.

1023
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 6: When someone says they're being completely truthful, that's a sure

1024
00:54:12,039 --> 00:54:16,719
sign there not. Sabra continued to insist that she hadn't

1025
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:20,800
witnessed the stabbing, and the cell phone footage somewhat supports

1026
00:54:20,840 --> 00:54:24,159
her claim. Though the video is dark and grainy, it

1027
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:28,119
seems to show Sabra distracted, focused on something else and

1028
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,440
not looking in Isaac's direction when he attacked Charlie. It's

1029
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:35,719
possible she didn't realize that stabbing had taken place until

1030
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,920
after they fled the scene. That said, there is a

1031
00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:42,519
moment just before the stabbing where Sabra reaches into the

1032
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,760
center console and it looks as though she may be

1033
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:51,679
handing something to Isaac. This raised the question did Sabra

1034
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:56,119
provide the murder weapon? Unfortunately, the view of the center

1035
00:54:56,199 --> 00:54:58,599
console is obstructed, so we're not likely to get an

1036
00:54:58,599 --> 00:55:03,280
answer to that question in truth. Once Saber agreed to

1037
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:07,360
be completely honest, her story didn't change very much. The

1038
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,400
biggest shift was in how she talked about Isaac. Based

1039
00:55:11,639 --> 00:55:14,880
with a looming threat of prison time, she suddenly seemed

1040
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:17,239
far more willing to throw him under the bus.

1041
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 12: Me and Brito on stairs, we were wanting to go

1042
00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:21,360
in the hot tub, and I was like, well.

1043
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:22,840
Speaker 2: I don't know if Isaac will freak out or not,

1044
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:26,400
because he was He's very you know, he doesn't.

1045
00:55:26,199 --> 00:55:29,679
Speaker 11: Like if I'm like in a bathing suit around a

1046
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:30,199
bunch of guys.

1047
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:32,320
Speaker 5: He's very jealous, so controlling.

1048
00:55:32,559 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1049
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 2: Then all of a sudden, I hear people arguing constantly,

1050
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:39,639
and I'm like, what the heck is going on?

1051
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:41,679
Speaker 5: So we all run back into.

1052
00:55:43,119 --> 00:55:46,920
Speaker 2: The house and it's like it's a big huddle with people,

1053
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:49,719
and on time figure out who was arguing.

1054
00:55:49,639 --> 00:55:51,159
Speaker 4: And then I realized it was Isaac.

1055
00:55:52,159 --> 00:55:53,679
Speaker 11: I didn't know who he was arguing with.

1056
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,159
Speaker 2: They were like trying to push him out, and I

1057
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,360
was like, okay, let's just go, Like, let's just go,

1058
00:55:59,159 --> 00:56:01,679
and he was sitting He's like, no, just shut the

1059
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:02,199
fuck up.

1060
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:03,639
Speaker 12: I'm sitting here with people.

1061
00:56:04,199 --> 00:56:06,639
Speaker 11: He was starting cussing out the people. I'm just like,

1062
00:56:06,679 --> 00:56:07,400
come on, let's go.

1063
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 5: And I was crying.

1064
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,039
Speaker 2: I was like, just please, let's go, and he's like, no,

1065
00:56:11,639 --> 00:56:13,639
fuck this, fuck that, fuck everyone.

1066
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,840
Speaker 6: Unlike her first telling, Sabra now admitted that Isaac had

1067
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:22,559
been the aggressor at the party. Surprise, surprise, this version

1068
00:56:22,599 --> 00:56:24,880
of events was far closer to the truth.

1069
00:56:25,480 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 4: Can you tell you where he stabbed him?

1070
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:29,679
Speaker 11: No, he said that he thought he stabbed him in

1071
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:30,039
the arm.

1072
00:56:30,119 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 5: That's what he said.

1073
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 12: And I was like, okay, Like, did you stab.

1074
00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:36,679
Speaker 5: Him anywhere else? I don't think so.

1075
00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:39,840
Speaker 3: Do you know that this gentleman was stabbed six times?

1076
00:56:40,199 --> 00:56:42,480
I did not know that her stab in the jaw

1077
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:45,800
right here, in the side of his neck, around his back,

1078
00:56:46,199 --> 00:56:48,880
twice in his chest, and another one in between his.

1079
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:49,599
Speaker 4: Head and his neck.

1080
00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 7: Oh my god.

1081
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 11: He shouldn't have stabbed anybody. It should have been a calm, cool,

1082
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,320
collected night. This was one night though me and him

1083
00:56:58,320 --> 00:56:59,320
didn't have any kids.

1084
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:03,639
Speaker 3: And I mean, I know that you guys hardly ever

1085
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:06,599
have your kids, because Ginger told me she's raising your kids.

1086
00:57:07,079 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 4: You guys, go and do however you want, whenever you want.

1087
00:57:10,119 --> 00:57:12,559
She's stuck with these kids. She's raised all over her own.

1088
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:15,079
You know, you guys are going out and drinking and

1089
00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:15,840
living your lives.

1090
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 5: I'm like, you don't have kids.

1091
00:57:18,199 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 11: And this made me realize I need to step up

1092
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:21,840
and be a better mom.

1093
00:57:23,519 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 3: I mean, I hate to be the bearer by news,

1094
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:26,800
but you're not going to get the opportunity for a long,

1095
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:27,440
long time.

1096
00:57:29,159 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 4: Not only is the steak and I have custy of

1097
00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:32,639
your children. You're going to jail today.

1098
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:33,599
Speaker 5: Am I really?

1099
00:57:34,039 --> 00:57:34,239
Speaker 7: Yeah?

1100
00:57:34,239 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 11: But it's true I did.

1101
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 4: If I have my way, you're going. As an accomplished

1102
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:40,360
to murder.

1103
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,320
Speaker 6: With her updated story on record, this dumb bitch was

1104
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:47,519
handcuffed and taken to jail. Next to face off with

1105
00:57:47,679 --> 00:57:50,880
detectives was her fiance, Isaac Pence.

1106
00:57:51,519 --> 00:57:52,559
Speaker 5: You were at a house party.

1107
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:54,719
Speaker 4: Kind of walked me through the events of the evening,

1108
00:57:55,079 --> 00:57:56,400
well the rest of night.

1109
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:01,079
Speaker 7: It was all completely fun, and so everyone got way

1110
00:58:01,119 --> 00:58:01,599
too drunk.

1111
00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:03,960
Speaker 16: I was standing in the hallway and someone got in

1112
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,639
my face, so I pushed it on the way and

1113
00:58:06,719 --> 00:58:09,360
then that's when about fifteen of them all wanted to

1114
00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,639
come outside and tried and Joe me and who got.

1115
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:14,760
Speaker 7: In your face? I'm not even sure who it was.

1116
00:58:15,519 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 5: Okay, who did you push out of it?

1117
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:17,679
Speaker 7: Away?

1118
00:58:18,199 --> 00:58:19,679
Speaker 16: I pushed that person out of the way and they

1119
00:58:19,719 --> 00:58:21,360
fell into a rest and they tried to say that

1120
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:24,880
I pushed her rest because as soon as she got touched,

1121
00:58:25,119 --> 00:58:26,440
everyone just flipped.

1122
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 7: Because he just started running at me.

1123
00:58:29,920 --> 00:58:33,079
Speaker 6: At this point, Isaac was completely unaware of the mountain

1124
00:58:33,159 --> 00:58:36,440
of evidence that detectives had gathered against him, and he

1125
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:41,360
didn't know that Charlie Starner had died, so naturally, Isaac

1126
00:58:41,440 --> 00:58:42,400
stuck to his lies.

1127
00:58:43,119 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 16: After I get in my car, they all started trying

1128
00:58:45,400 --> 00:58:48,760
to rip my door open, and once they got the

1129
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,159
door open, I just grabbed myne real quick. I was like,

1130
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:55,519
get get away, and they weren't listening. So when I

1131
00:58:55,639 --> 00:58:56,800
tried to put him in the arm.

1132
00:58:57,559 --> 00:59:01,199
Speaker 5: Okay, he sat him once in the arm, and what

1133
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:02,079
happens after that?

1134
00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:03,960
Speaker 7: He kept coming, so set him again.

1135
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:08,039
Speaker 5: So you stab him a second time, and what happens.

1136
00:59:09,360 --> 00:59:10,920
Speaker 7: I'm pretty sure that you left.

1137
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,199
Speaker 16: I kind of blacked out after I got him at

1138
00:59:14,239 --> 00:59:18,480
the same time because I sat shit and then I

1139
00:59:18,639 --> 00:59:19,639
just kind of blacked out.

1140
00:59:20,039 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 7: I think I just said twice of them left.

1141
00:59:23,159 --> 00:59:27,559
Speaker 6: Conveniently, Isaac slipped into the tired excuse of blacking out.

1142
00:59:28,599 --> 00:59:31,559
Funny how sharp his memory had stayed right up until

1143
00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:33,199
the point where he stabbed someone to death.

1144
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:36,360
Speaker 5: Take off from there, and where do you go? Oh?

1145
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 27: Think, try that again? No, okay, So it's Justin's house

1146
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,400
for a second. Okay, then for Justin's house, went at

1147
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:48,119
her mom's house.

1148
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:53,679
Speaker 5: Then went well, so I'm gonna tell you. The only

1149
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,960
thing you have left in this world is your integrity.

1150
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:57,400
You know what integrity is?

1151
00:59:58,039 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 6: Do you know what integrity he is?

1152
01:00:01,559 --> 01:00:02,000
Speaker 12: I love that.

1153
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, you're honesty, and I'm going to tell you that

1154
01:00:05,079 --> 01:00:06,559
I have found about forty one.

1155
01:00:06,519 --> 01:00:09,199
Speaker 3: Holes already in your story. The last thing I want

1156
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:13,039
is your bullshit. Okay, what you did last night is

1157
01:00:13,119 --> 01:00:19,519
fucked up. You killed somebody. He's dead and did Yeah.

1158
01:00:19,559 --> 01:00:22,679
Speaker 5: He died at eight thirty one this morning. The world

1159
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:24,000
lost a father.

1160
01:00:24,519 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 4: He leaves behind a nine and a half month old

1161
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:28,760
son named jet Okay.

1162
01:00:29,679 --> 01:00:31,239
Speaker 5: A mother and father lost their son.

1163
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 3: A girlfriend lost her boyfriend that she held compression on

1164
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:36,639
for several minutes waiting for a medic to get there

1165
01:00:36,719 --> 01:00:37,800
to try and save his life.

1166
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,239
Speaker 4: He died at Grant this morning, and you're facing murder charges.

1167
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:45,119
Speaker 5: He did because you didn't stab him twice.

1168
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 4: You sad him multiple times, way more than twice.

1169
01:00:51,079 --> 01:00:51,960
Speaker 5: I'll talk to your mom.

1170
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:55,800
Speaker 3: I know you were a very violent, explosive person. I

1171
01:00:55,920 --> 01:00:58,119
know you drink almost every weekend. You left her in

1172
01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:01,079
the care and custody of your two children, Draco and Whaleen,

1173
01:01:01,079 --> 01:01:02,840
who are thirteen months and four months old.

1174
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:05,719
Speaker 4: Up been inside your bedroom, up been inside your car.

1175
01:01:06,159 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 5: I've had a very deep conversation with.

1176
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 4: Your girlfriend, your girlfriend's mother, and everyone that was at

1177
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:12,840
that cabin. You get one shot at this with me,

1178
01:01:13,039 --> 01:01:16,719
and that's it. You want to start over, Let's go.

1179
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,519
Speaker 6: Detectives hit Isaac with the same reality check they'd given

1180
01:01:20,639 --> 01:01:24,840
to Sabra. Afterwards, he appeared slightly more willing to tell

1181
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:28,000
the truth, but much like Sabra, he couldn't stop trying

1182
01:01:28,039 --> 01:01:29,880
to minimize his actions.

1183
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:32,039
Speaker 5: How much did you drink that night?

1184
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:37,960
Speaker 16: I think he's drank. It's pol Pagan Miller. I took

1185
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:41,960
a couple of shots of Hennessy and a bottle of cream.

1186
01:01:43,239 --> 01:01:45,039
It's like green cellar apple snops.

1187
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:48,159
Speaker 5: You drank a lot of alcohol.

1188
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 4: No way that you have an explosive personality when you're drunk.

1189
01:01:51,679 --> 01:01:56,760
Speaker 14: And if I tell you that, I have literally witness

1190
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:01,719
statements written witness statements of you ed pushing a horizon.

1191
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:02,800
Speaker 7: That's what they're trying to say.

1192
01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 5: Okay, and you're telling me that that's not true.

1193
01:02:05,639 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 7: I don't think that I pushed her.

1194
01:02:07,519 --> 01:02:09,199
Speaker 4: Is it possible that you could have pushed her and

1195
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:13,159
you blacked out? Given me the copious amounts of alcohol you.

1196
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:15,920
Speaker 7: Drank, I could have, but I really I do not

1197
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:16,679
believe that I did.

1198
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 5: Do you think it's okay to put your hands off

1199
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:23,639
the amounts ever the sisters? Okay? Do you think it'd

1200
01:02:23,639 --> 01:02:26,320
be okay for your sons to do the same? Would

1201
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:27,880
you like it if Dalton shoved sober?

1202
01:02:28,519 --> 01:02:30,320
Speaker 6: Now, I remind you this is the same guy that

1203
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,119
had just recently gotten out of jail for assaulting his

1204
01:02:34,599 --> 01:02:41,000
baby mom's mother, his children's grandmother, So take that with

1205
01:02:41,119 --> 01:02:44,840
a grain of something. Isaac claimed that he didn't or

1206
01:02:45,119 --> 01:02:49,079
couldn't recall shoving Dalton's girlfriend to the ground, which was

1207
01:02:49,159 --> 01:02:53,679
the act that ignited the whole night's chaos. Unfortunately for him,

1208
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:58,039
multiple witnesses, including Dalton's girlfriend, said that he did.

1209
01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:00,800
Speaker 10: He pushed you onto the ground inside the cabin.

1210
01:03:01,079 --> 01:03:04,599
Speaker 13: Yes, right by the door, two open hands, honey, clearly

1211
01:03:04,760 --> 01:03:07,400
shot me okay by your chest or yeah, like my

1212
01:03:07,519 --> 01:03:08,760
shoulders and chest right.

1213
01:03:08,679 --> 01:03:15,159
Speaker 6: Here after Isaac shoved Horizon, Dalton understandably exploded with anger,

1214
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,639
and from there the night spiraled out of control.

1215
01:03:19,320 --> 01:03:20,519
Speaker 4: Dalton comes to you.

1216
01:03:20,960 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 7: And says, what, uh, he was just freaking out. Then

1217
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:25,559
he's gonna be my ass and everything.

1218
01:03:26,000 --> 01:03:28,840
Speaker 16: And then once he did the anyone else jumped in

1219
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:33,559
and there is about five ten people and we went

1220
01:03:33,599 --> 01:03:36,280
outside and they were all.

1221
01:03:36,239 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 7: Trying to hit me.

1222
01:03:37,760 --> 01:03:39,320
Speaker 5: What if I tell you that I have some mail

1223
01:03:39,360 --> 01:03:41,320
on this video of them just saying it's time to leave.

1224
01:03:41,320 --> 01:03:42,039
It's time to leave.

1225
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 7: No, because when we went because that's probably all this

1226
01:03:46,199 --> 01:03:46,960
is where they're hitting me.

1227
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,599
Speaker 3: Well, a scuffle ensues, but they're trying to push you

1228
01:03:50,679 --> 01:03:53,519
out of the cabin and Sober was telling you it's.

1229
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 5: Time to go.

1230
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:57,239
Speaker 7: Oh, I don't remember it, okay.

1231
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 6: Once again, Isaac's selective memory failed him, but the evidence

1232
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:07,159
was clear nobody at the party wanted more violence. Witness

1233
01:04:07,280 --> 01:04:11,559
after witness confirmed that everyone simply wanted Isaac to leave.

1234
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 18: That in the house, I was.

1235
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 22: Trying to like stop him from fighting and screaming at

1236
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:17,960
each other, and we're just trying to get him to

1237
01:04:18,079 --> 01:04:19,880
leave Isaac, Like everybody was.

1238
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 10: Just telling that kid to leave.

1239
01:04:22,159 --> 01:04:25,920
Speaker 6: Surveillance footage from the cabin backed up the witness statements,

1240
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:30,119
showing several people dragged Isaac toward his car, trying to

1241
01:04:30,119 --> 01:04:31,400
get him away from the situation.

1242
01:04:32,119 --> 01:04:34,760
Speaker 5: And when you get your car, what happens.

1243
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:38,239
Speaker 7: A knife he's pulling on the door.

1244
01:04:38,280 --> 01:04:41,480
Speaker 4: I thing I'll tell you that I have a footprint

1245
01:04:41,519 --> 01:04:42,280
that tells me they.

1246
01:04:42,199 --> 01:04:46,000
Speaker 5: Were trying to close Does this Does this sound familiar?

1247
01:04:46,119 --> 01:04:48,639
Now we're trying to get back out of the car,

1248
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,280
you know, one.

1249
01:04:50,159 --> 01:04:53,400
Speaker 3: Foot out and or you're trying to push open the

1250
01:04:53,440 --> 01:04:55,239
door and somebody takes a foot.

1251
01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:57,159
Speaker 5: And closes the door.

1252
01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,199
Speaker 3: I have a footprint to corroborate that, and in the

1253
01:05:00,280 --> 01:05:03,079
side of your equinox that says they were trying to

1254
01:05:03,119 --> 01:05:03,719
get you back.

1255
01:05:03,559 --> 01:05:05,960
Speaker 5: In the car. Okay, do you remember any of that?

1256
01:05:08,159 --> 01:05:10,519
At what point do you reach for the knife?

1257
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:13,800
Speaker 7: I'm not completely sure.

1258
01:05:14,519 --> 01:05:18,559
Speaker 5: Okay, And you what happens when you grabbed this knife?

1259
01:05:20,199 --> 01:05:21,519
Speaker 7: I think just start stabbing him?

1260
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:24,559
Speaker 4: How many times do you think you stabbed him?

1261
01:05:28,159 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 5: Okay? Did you say anything as you were stabbing him?

1262
01:05:31,679 --> 01:05:35,679
Couldn't sell you. Did you say anything after you stabbed him?

1263
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:37,280
Speaker 7: I think it's just left.

1264
01:05:38,559 --> 01:05:42,280
Speaker 6: Not only did the physical evidence contradict Isaac's claims that

1265
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:46,000
he was being attacked but a man the Chapman's cell

1266
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:50,320
phone video clearly showed the exact opposite. People were pushing

1267
01:05:50,719 --> 01:05:54,360
on Isaac's car door trying to shut it. They weren't

1268
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,960
trying to pull him out. Isaac was the only one

1269
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,239
looking for a fight, shoving back, trying to force his

1270
01:06:01,400 --> 01:06:06,280
way out of the car. Tragically, he succeeded with a

1271
01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:08,000
knife in his hand.

1272
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,599
Speaker 5: Because what was your next move when you left that cabin?

1273
01:06:12,239 --> 01:06:15,360
That's nobody's house, And what did you say when you

1274
01:06:15,440 --> 01:06:18,679
got there? I don't know what if I tell you.

1275
01:06:18,719 --> 01:06:21,519
Speaker 3: That I had your surveillance at his house and I

1276
01:06:21,599 --> 01:06:24,679
have all the camera footage, and you literally look at

1277
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,960
Justin and say, I just fucking stab this guy?

1278
01:06:28,039 --> 01:06:32,199
Speaker 5: Is that right about? Okay? What do you do with

1279
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:37,000
the weapon when you're in there? Because certainly it wasn't.

1280
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:38,920
Speaker 4: In the car or at the scene, like you told

1281
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:39,679
the detectives.

1282
01:06:40,960 --> 01:06:42,119
Speaker 5: You know exactly where the.

1283
01:06:42,119 --> 01:06:45,519
Speaker 4: Murder weapon was the whole time, But you told us

1284
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:46,559
the knife.

1285
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:48,719
Speaker 3: Is definitely in the car, It's definitely at the scene

1286
01:06:49,719 --> 01:06:51,639
the whole time. You sat here, knowing that we were

1287
01:06:51,679 --> 01:06:52,800
on a wild goose hunt.

1288
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:55,639
Speaker 5: You just didn't think we'd find a knife, did you?

1289
01:06:58,559 --> 01:07:01,920
No knife, no crime? Is that what you were hoping for?

1290
01:07:02,519 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 7: Okay?

1291
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,559
Speaker 6: The fact that Isaac hid the murder weapon became a

1292
01:07:06,679 --> 01:07:10,400
key piece of the case. It showed a clear consciousness

1293
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,880
of guilt. Isaac could claim memory loss all he wanted,

1294
01:07:13,960 --> 01:07:17,480
but his actions and the lies he told afterwards spoke.

1295
01:07:17,639 --> 01:07:21,119
Volumes are thrown on the bush, quite through it.

1296
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:22,719
Speaker 5: Why would you throw it?

1297
01:07:24,320 --> 01:07:26,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, okay, and we're sober.

1298
01:07:27,719 --> 01:07:31,440
Speaker 7: It's just a silicer. I think she was marching tiktoks

1299
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:32,199
on her phone.

1300
01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 5: Washing tiktoks on her phone. No one, her boyfriend just

1301
01:07:35,400 --> 01:07:40,400
stabbed someone. It's pretty normal behavior, right. I mean, hey,

1302
01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:43,320
you went home and took a nap like it was

1303
01:07:43,400 --> 01:07:44,639
just another day in the park for you.

1304
01:07:45,519 --> 01:07:45,679
Speaker 11: Right.

1305
01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 5: No, I would be able to sleep if I stab somebody.

1306
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:53,599
Speaker 7: I was too drunk and then really remember it when

1307
01:07:53,599 --> 01:07:55,400
I got home, but not too.

1308
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,440
Speaker 4: Drunk to drive, not too drunk to dispose of the

1309
01:07:58,559 --> 01:07:59,159
murder weapon.

1310
01:08:00,679 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 5: Jumped to try and cover up your tracks.

1311
01:08:02,800 --> 01:08:07,760
Speaker 6: Surveillance footage outside Justin's home captured Isaac ditching the knife

1312
01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:12,320
in some nearby bushes. Interestingly, Sabra was inside using the

1313
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:16,159
restroom when he did this, meaning once again it's very

1314
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:21,159
possible Sabra didn't know Isaac had hidden the weapon. This

1315
01:08:21,399 --> 01:08:25,520
was another lucky break for her. As for Isaac, he

1316
01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:28,880
wasn't ready for the night to end. After disposing of

1317
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:32,600
the knife, he planned to return to the cabin, this

1318
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:34,640
time armed with a gun.

1319
01:08:35,039 --> 01:08:37,800
Speaker 7: And then I remember going home me and I said,

1320
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:38,560
they got into it?

1321
01:08:39,439 --> 01:08:40,760
Speaker 5: Why did you guys get into it about?

1322
01:08:41,520 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 7: I think I was trying to get into the gun safe.

1323
01:08:44,199 --> 01:08:45,560
Speaker 5: Why are we trying to hit the gun sick?

1324
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:48,000
Speaker 7: I think to get back there.

1325
01:08:49,359 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 3: And do well?

1326
01:08:51,920 --> 01:08:55,119
Speaker 5: Finished the deal? What else would you do?

1327
01:08:55,920 --> 01:08:58,159
Speaker 7: I think it was just to scare them because they

1328
01:08:58,159 --> 01:08:59,039
wouldn't kill me.

1329
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:02,479
Speaker 28: So you went home and you're rattling the gun safe

1330
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:07,600
trying to get into it. You took a hammer to

1331
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,359
the gun to see, okay.

1332
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:13,720
Speaker 5: And what happens grabby and.

1333
01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 7: And we end up getting in a fight over it?

1334
01:09:18,199 --> 01:09:21,319
Speaker 5: Did she punched him in the face? The black does

1335
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:21,800
left die?

1336
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:23,159
Speaker 3: You know about that?

1337
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,159
Speaker 5: You know that you just had a heart attack, and

1338
01:09:27,239 --> 01:09:32,560
he's raising your kids again. Stabbing somebody wasn't enough. Today

1339
01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:33,920
He went home and.

1340
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:36,880
Speaker 4: Assaulted an old man on top of all the things

1341
01:09:36,920 --> 01:09:37,479
you could have done.

1342
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:42,560
Speaker 6: Finally, after stabbing Charlie, hiding the evidence, and assaulting his stepfather,

1343
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:46,960
this drunken, dangerous ass clown passed out in his own bed.

1344
01:09:48,039 --> 01:09:50,800
He woke later that morning to the sound of police

1345
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:52,119
knocking at his door.

1346
01:09:52,840 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 3: So here's the problem with this whole thing is that now?

1347
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,880
One time today, have you or somebra asked how that kid?

1348
01:10:01,039 --> 01:10:01,199
Speaker 5: Right?

1349
01:10:01,840 --> 01:10:04,920
Speaker 7: I was thinking about it. I just didn't want to ask.

1350
01:10:05,680 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 5: Why not?

1351
01:10:07,199 --> 01:10:10,920
Speaker 7: I didn't want to hear it. Did you have any inclination?

1352
01:10:12,119 --> 01:10:12,960
I have a feeling.

1353
01:10:14,159 --> 01:10:15,359
Speaker 5: Do you know his name was Charlie.

1354
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, Charlie was just an innocent guy at that party.

1355
01:10:20,039 --> 01:10:21,479
You never met Charlie before.

1356
01:10:21,279 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 11: That, did you.

1357
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,359
Speaker 4: He grabbed Charlie by the neck, and he didn't stab

1358
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:26,399
Charlie two times.

1359
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:31,199
Speaker 3: Stab Charlie six times the side of his neck, right here,

1360
01:10:31,279 --> 01:10:34,199
on his face, twice in his side.

1361
01:10:34,319 --> 01:10:36,560
Speaker 5: Once in his back, and somewhere in between his head

1362
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,840
and his neck, and you left.

1363
01:10:40,319 --> 01:10:42,520
Speaker 4: You left Charlie to lay there and bleed out on

1364
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:43,000
the ground.

1365
01:10:43,840 --> 01:10:47,800
Speaker 5: Charlie didn't die right away, but Charlie, he coughed it

1366
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:48,920
out in a trauma bay.

1367
01:10:49,199 --> 01:10:51,680
Speaker 3: He made it in an airplane to a hospital in Columbus,

1368
01:10:52,560 --> 01:10:55,359
made it through the surgery and then he could put

1369
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:59,399
his heart gave out. Ain't know what his kid isn't

1370
01:10:59,399 --> 01:11:02,319
the only one out of dad, because Draco and Whale

1371
01:11:02,319 --> 01:11:02,840
and aren't.

1372
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 5: Going to They're not going to have their mom either.

1373
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,840
Speaker 3: She went to jail today well, she do complicity to

1374
01:11:08,960 --> 01:11:12,319
murder because she knew what she didn't do anything about it.

1375
01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 6: Isaac and Sabra were charged and booked into jail. Initially

1376
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:22,439
both faced murder charges, but eventually Saber's charges were downgraded.

1377
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:25,720
Speaker 17: According to court documents, Isaac Pence has been arrested and

1378
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:30,079
charged with murder. His girlfriend, Sabra Flag, is accused of

1379
01:11:30,239 --> 01:11:33,159
leaving the scene with him and lying to detectives about

1380
01:11:33,239 --> 01:11:37,119
what happened. She charged with obstructing justice. Pens and Flag

1381
01:11:37,199 --> 01:11:39,800
were in court this morning and both pled not guilty,

1382
01:11:40,119 --> 01:11:42,760
the judges keeping them both on a one million dollar

1383
01:11:42,880 --> 01:11:43,560
bond each.

1384
01:11:44,079 --> 01:11:48,319
Speaker 6: Saber later accepted a plea deal. She served just six

1385
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:51,640
months in prison for obstructing justice, and as far as

1386
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:55,439
anyone knows, she's now a free woman. As for Isaac,

1387
01:11:56,119 --> 01:12:00,079
he took his case to trial and he lost. He

1388
01:12:00,159 --> 01:12:03,359
was convicted of murder and a long list of related charges.

1389
01:12:04,439 --> 01:12:08,560
His sentence was eighteen years to life. In my humble

1390
01:12:08,720 --> 01:12:14,039
and ultimately meaningless opinion, that's far too lenient. Isaac could

1391
01:12:14,079 --> 01:12:16,359
be a relatively young man if he walks out of

1392
01:12:16,439 --> 01:12:20,439
prison one day, this time as a felon and a

1393
01:12:20,520 --> 01:12:24,800
convicted murderer. What happens next time he picks up a drink.

1394
01:12:25,760 --> 01:12:29,359
Whose life will he destroy then? And what judge will

1395
01:12:29,399 --> 01:12:34,880
completely skirt responsibility for letting him out. That's frustrating is

1396
01:12:35,000 --> 01:12:39,199
Isaac's sentences. There is another detail that makes this case

1397
01:12:39,239 --> 01:12:43,399
even harder to stomach. Isaac and Charlie didn't even know

1398
01:12:43,520 --> 01:12:48,479
each other. They were complete strangers. Charlie died because he

1399
01:12:48,600 --> 01:12:51,520
happened to be standing in the wrong place at the

1400
01:12:51,600 --> 01:12:54,960
wrong time, at the hands of a violent man that

1401
01:12:55,399 --> 01:12:59,720
he had never met. That's how easy it is, folks.

1402
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:03,439
That's how quickly it can all end.

1403
01:13:04,079 --> 01:13:06,119
Speaker 10: And how did Charlie get involved in this hole?

1404
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,479
Speaker 13: He was literally just standing right there as far as

1405
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:11,920
I know, he was standing right.

1406
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:12,640
Speaker 12: There by the porch.

1407
01:13:13,000 --> 01:13:16,520
Speaker 10: And so Charlie and him had no beasts prior to this.

1408
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 12: You know, I don't even think they talked, Okay, Yeah.

1409
01:13:21,520 --> 01:13:24,520
Speaker 10: So he just kind of was the unlucky, yeah, victim

1410
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:25,079
in all of us.

1411
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:30,359
Speaker 6: Charlie Starter was just twenty two years old. He was

1412
01:13:30,399 --> 01:13:34,359
a young father, soon to be husband, and by every account,

1413
01:13:34,439 --> 01:13:37,159
a good man who loved his family and friends fiercely.

1414
01:13:38,319 --> 01:13:41,600
His future was full of promise, but all of a

1415
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:45,479
sudden it was stolen in an instant when he tried

1416
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:49,680
to do what good people so often do. He stepped in,

1417
01:13:50,079 --> 01:13:54,079
hoping to calm a situation before it got worse. Charlie

1418
01:13:54,279 --> 01:13:57,119
wasn't reckless, he wasn't looking for a fight. He was

1419
01:13:57,159 --> 01:14:01,560
trying to protect and he was trying to help, and

1420
01:14:01,680 --> 01:14:06,920
that one moment of courage cost him everything. The unfortunate

1421
01:14:07,039 --> 01:14:10,399
truth is that sometimes the safest choice and the smartest

1422
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:14,039
way to protect yourself is to step back when danger

1423
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:18,239
bears its teeth. But this case isn't a warning against

1424
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:23,800
being brave or helpful, of being a good Samaritan. It's

1425
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:28,279
simply a brutal reminder that evil doesn't need a reason

1426
01:14:28,640 --> 01:14:32,920
to destroy what's good. And you never know what someone

1427
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,239
else is capable of, or how quickly a night of

1428
01:14:36,319 --> 01:14:42,319
drinking and partying can spiral into something deadly. Sometimes all

1429
01:14:42,359 --> 01:14:46,840
it takes is being in the wrong place, facing the

1430
01:14:46,880 --> 01:15:30,399
wrong person at the wrong time. You know that time

1431
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,720
when you're done recording an episode of swords Gilts, fresh

1432
01:15:33,800 --> 01:15:36,720
off the presses, you're ready to put it out, but

1433
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,840
you just know, you just know, deep down inside, that

1434
01:15:41,039 --> 01:15:44,159
some fat monstrosity with a septum ring and clown hair

1435
01:15:44,279 --> 01:15:47,279
is going to accuse you of being a misogynist simply

1436
01:15:47,359 --> 01:15:52,560
because you called a dumb bitch dumb. Well, you see here,

1437
01:15:54,159 --> 01:15:58,520
maybe I am a misogynist. Maybe I am. Maybe if

1438
01:15:58,640 --> 01:16:02,359
being a feminist means you side with someone just because

1439
01:16:02,359 --> 01:16:04,680
they have a pair of tits like you do despite

1440
01:16:05,079 --> 01:16:09,640
not having a brain, or I don't know, morals means

1441
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:13,119
what you got to stick together? Girls, just remember this

1442
01:16:13,239 --> 01:16:15,720
little lesson we've hammered into your brain over and over

1443
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:22,439
and over again. Beware of the company you keep. If

1444
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:25,000
you side with idiots with loose morals, then maybe that's

1445
01:16:25,079 --> 01:16:28,159
exactly who you are too. But who am I other

1446
01:16:28,279 --> 01:16:31,119
than just a dumb male kind of like the other

1447
01:16:31,199 --> 01:16:33,119
idiot in this story, which I don't side with at

1448
01:16:33,159 --> 01:16:35,520
all because I'm not a maleist or whatever they're called.

1449
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,279
Because having a brain is more important than having a dick.

1450
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:44,920
See how that works, nah, you from Ohio to