WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:03.919 In August of nineteen ninety six, twenty year old Michael 2 00:00:03.919 --> 00:00:07.400 Madden packed his car early, left a note for his family, 3 00:00:07.839 --> 00:00:10.519 and he and his dog set off towards the forest. 4 00:00:11.080 --> 00:00:14.919 Only one of them would return. I'm Danielle, I'm Megan, 5 00:00:15.400 --> 00:00:28.079 and this is off the trails. 6 00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:29.800 I woke up this morning. 7 00:00:29.879 --> 00:00:33.560 Everything was icy, and it's April twentieth, cut and done 8 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:33.759 with that. 9 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:36.439 Oh I bet I just. 10 00:00:36.520 --> 00:00:40.960 Brought out blankets to cover the bees, cover the plants, 11 00:00:41.119 --> 00:00:41.679 all those things. 12 00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:44.039 It's going to be in the twenties again tonight. So 13 00:00:44.560 --> 00:00:48.119 you got a nice little taste of spring weather. And 14 00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:51.280 then it said, oh, hold on, we're not completely done 15 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:52.039 with winter yet. 16 00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:56.159 I truly fell for false spring this year because maybe 17 00:00:56.159 --> 00:00:58.560 we can happen ago. I turned back on the outside 18 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:00.719 water so that I could use it to fill the 19 00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:01.880 duck pool and all that. 20 00:01:02.359 --> 00:01:05.000 Well, I didn't realize it was going to be freezing. 21 00:01:05.519 --> 00:01:08.239 And now, of course I have a little crack in 22 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.640 my outside pipe with little leaks. Now it's been turned 23 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:14.280 off again, looking forward to fixing that plumbing issue. 24 00:01:15.200 --> 00:01:17.519 That's not great. Frozen all right. 25 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:22.079 So before we get into today's story, if you want 26 00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:27.040 to do like a little location profile. The Stantuslast National Forests, 27 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:31.560 which I think we have traveled here before, covers nearly 28 00:01:31.599 --> 00:01:36.040 a million acres of the central Sierra Nevada Mountains in California. 29 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.480 Areas in this forest can be very remote, with dense 30 00:01:40.560 --> 00:01:44.719 pine forest, granite outcroppings, and rivers cold enough to make 31 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:46.560 you suver any time of year. 32 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:52.159 I mean, if waters below like eighty five degrees or shivering, 33 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:54.640 You're like, if it is not a hot shower, it 34 00:01:54.760 --> 00:01:58.959 is too cold. We have obviously the springs here that'll 35 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:02.560 always stay around like seventy two degrees year round, and 36 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:05.480 I mean granted on a very very hot day it 37 00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:09.560 is refreshing, but it still bites because it's just cold. 38 00:02:09.599 --> 00:02:11.199 It's crisp and cold. 39 00:02:11.879 --> 00:02:12.599 Over the winter. 40 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.879 Again, going back to frozen pipes, my shower had the 41 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:20.919 hot water pipe frozen, and I like felt the cold 42 00:02:20.960 --> 00:02:23.280 water and I was like, yeah, that's cold, but I 43 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:26.639 could take a real quick shower in that until you 44 00:02:26.639 --> 00:02:28.080 put your body in it. And I was like, this 45 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:30.800 is the worst decision I've ever made. But now I 46 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:33.280 got to commit to it because I got. 47 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:35.240 To my hair is partially wet. I just got to 48 00:02:36.159 --> 00:02:36.879 get through it. 49 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:40.560 Yeah, I mean I commend those people who take cold 50 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:43.479 showers or turn their shower cold at the end of 51 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:45.719 it before they get out. I've tried it before, but 52 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:47.840 I don't think I'm keeping it cold long enough. But 53 00:02:48.599 --> 00:02:50.639 you know, a for effort. 54 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.599 Maybe next year. No, I don't even want to try. 55 00:02:54.599 --> 00:02:56.319 It's not even worth it to me. I don't want 56 00:02:56.319 --> 00:02:58.280 to be that person. All right, But we're going to 57 00:02:58.319 --> 00:03:02.080 be going to sand Bar Flat, which is a campground 58 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:05.240 in this forest that sits along the Santa Slaus River. 59 00:03:05.439 --> 00:03:09.759 This campground is remote, but it's not totally inaccessible. 60 00:03:09.879 --> 00:03:12.280 You can get there by road. 61 00:03:12.439 --> 00:03:16.439 It sounds like there's a lot of switchbacks, and clearly 62 00:03:16.439 --> 00:03:17.560 it's not paved. 63 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:19.680 I read some reviews and people were. 64 00:03:19.560 --> 00:03:22.360 Like, yeah, I wouldn't take just any old vehicle out 65 00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:25.639 there unless you want your suspension wrecked and scratches and 66 00:03:25.759 --> 00:03:28.000 dents and all kinds of mayhem. 67 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:30.319 But you can drive out there if you choose to. 68 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:34.280 Okay, it's nice because people who want to go out 69 00:03:34.280 --> 00:03:37.319 there can get out there without having to be dropped 70 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:40.639 by a bush plane. But it still is off the 71 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.400 veient path and definitely remote, and of course self service 72 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.560 is essentially non existent. What you're out there. Today's story 73 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:52.000 takes place in nineteen ninety six. I don't think anybody 74 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.719 probably had cell phones, so kind of a moot point, 75 00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:58.840 but that's okay. In the summer of nineteen ninety six, 76 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:03.039 this was a place that you would expect to find 77 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:08.360 Michael Madden. He was a student at Humboldt State University, 78 00:04:09.080 --> 00:04:13.039 and I saw that he was studying something in the 79 00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:19.279 biology field, and he was hoping to go on to 80 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:21.160 become a forest ranger at some point. 81 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:22.600 That was his ultimate goal. 82 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.480 The woods and the outdoors weren't just an interest for him. 83 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.040 I bet they were his home away from home, if 84 00:04:31.079 --> 00:04:35.439 not his real first home. Right on the morning of 85 00:04:35.439 --> 00:04:40.120 August tenth, he left his family's home, likely around five am. 86 00:04:40.360 --> 00:04:42.720 He didn't wake anybody up. He left a note for 87 00:04:42.759 --> 00:04:46.600 his mom telling her where he was going. I would 88 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:52.319 assume that if he was living or staying with his family, 89 00:04:53.519 --> 00:04:56.120 they probably already knew that he was going away. I 90 00:04:56.120 --> 00:04:58.360 would hope not just like, oh, here's a note, I'm 91 00:04:58.399 --> 00:04:59.680 be gone the next seven days. 92 00:05:00.480 --> 00:05:02.879 Well, especially if it sounds like he took a dog 93 00:05:02.959 --> 00:05:05.199 with him, if it's a family dog or even just 94 00:05:05.240 --> 00:05:07.600 a dog that's living at that house, you're like, Okay, 95 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:10.439 is that dog also going to be gone for seven? 96 00:05:10.519 --> 00:05:10.560 No? 97 00:05:10.839 --> 00:05:11.720 Right, right? 98 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:14.560 I just thought it was funny that all the sources 99 00:05:14.560 --> 00:05:16.079 were like, he left a note, but I was like, 100 00:05:16.600 --> 00:05:16.920 I don't know. 101 00:05:16.959 --> 00:05:20.839 His mom probably knew. Note was maybe like just a 102 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:21.879 follow up. I don't know. 103 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:22.800 Yep. 104 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.439 He tossed his gear into his Chevy Cavalier, which I 105 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.439 looked that car up because I don't really know what 106 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:34.360 that looks like, and that is the quintessential nineties vehicle 107 00:05:34.879 --> 00:05:37.000 for like teenagers in early twenties. 108 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.800 I had one, did you? Yeah? I had one two 109 00:05:41.839 --> 00:05:48.519 thousand and five. It was my first Carkay. 110 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:48.519 But was it an older one? 111 00:05:49.160 --> 00:05:51.160 Yes? Yeah, I loved her. 112 00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:52.360 What was her name? 113 00:05:52.439 --> 00:05:58.120 I don't know, Oh, all right, some people name their cars, 114 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.800 but like that car through it and she took it. 115 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:06.639 So yeah, that's why I'm sure he felt comfortable taking 116 00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:10.319 his and going out to this location. 117 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:15.160 Mike and his dog Matilda were on the road wickiq 118 00:06:15.519 --> 00:06:17.519 Or on the road before the sun was even fully up. 119 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:20.959 He was heading to Sandbar Flat and some friends would 120 00:06:20.959 --> 00:06:23.560 be meeting him there in a day or so. Mike 121 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:26.399 wanted to get a head start to set up camp 122 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.879 spend some quiet time alone and probably try and get 123 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.639 some fishing in This area is said to be a 124 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:36.199 really good fishing spot. Mike and his dad had camped 125 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:38.920 and fished in the area at least several times, if 126 00:06:38.920 --> 00:06:42.040 not lots of times before, and I'm not sure if 127 00:06:42.079 --> 00:06:46.319 they always stayed at that same campground, But either way, 128 00:06:46.399 --> 00:06:50.639 he was going somewhere where he wasn't in unfamiliar terrain, right, 129 00:06:50.720 --> 00:06:55.519 he definitely had experience and familiarity with this place. On 130 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.319 August twelfth, his friends arrived at the campground just after 131 00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:03.839 two in the morning, which is definitely not an ideal 132 00:07:04.000 --> 00:07:07.199 time of night to be driving through the woods. But 133 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:14.040 thinking back to going anywhere with a group in later 134 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:17.759 teens early twenties, I feel like that is just the 135 00:07:17.759 --> 00:07:20.160 way it goes, because somebody always has to work late. 136 00:07:20.759 --> 00:07:23.000 They forgot to ask a Friday night off, so they 137 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:25.560 had to work till ten o'clock, and then you have 138 00:07:25.639 --> 00:07:30.439 to jenga everybody's gear because they probably didn't pack in advance, 139 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.079 so it was like scramble at the end of the night, 140 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:35.399 get in the car, drive a couple hours. 141 00:07:35.680 --> 00:07:37.279 Did you mean Tetris? 142 00:07:37.560 --> 00:07:37.759 Yeah? 143 00:07:37.759 --> 00:07:40.319 When I say Jena, yeah, I mean I still like that, 144 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:43.639 but taking it out is like Jenda. 145 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:48.120 Absolutely, packing it like Tetris, trying to unload it like Jenga. 146 00:07:48.759 --> 00:07:53.160 Yup, and they figured, since Mike had already gotten a 147 00:07:53.199 --> 00:07:57.079 head start, at least the camp would be somewhat situated 148 00:07:57.160 --> 00:07:59.839 and they could roll in and then set up whatever 149 00:07:59.839 --> 00:08:02.360 else need to be done in the morning. They made 150 00:08:02.360 --> 00:08:04.800 their way to the spot, but when they got there, 151 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:09.560 Mike wasn't there. They looked around and it was very 152 00:08:09.560 --> 00:08:12.040 apparent that Matilda wasn't around either. 153 00:08:12.439 --> 00:08:16.079 Which if they had, if they had shown up during 154 00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:19.959 the day or just more reasonable hours, I could see 155 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:22.560 that being less concerning because oh, he could just be 156 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:25.759 venturing out somewhere in the area, but showing up at 157 00:08:25.800 --> 00:08:27.800 two am, he should be there. 158 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.439 And they knew this was the right spot because there 159 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:36.399 was a freshly made fire and they did identify year 160 00:08:36.600 --> 00:08:39.720 at the site as belonging to Mike, and the fire 161 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:43.399 was fresh enough that it seemed like someone had likely 162 00:08:43.480 --> 00:08:46.759 recently been sitting there, not long before they arrived. 163 00:08:46.799 --> 00:08:50.639 Okay, so there was remnants of a freshly put out fire, 164 00:08:51.039 --> 00:08:54.159 there was some gear there, but Mike, Matilda, and the 165 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:56.919 car were currently gone. 166 00:08:57.080 --> 00:08:59.240 So here's the thing. About the car. 167 00:09:00.159 --> 00:09:04.879 None of the sources specifically mention the vehicle detail, which 168 00:09:05.039 --> 00:09:06.960 is huge to me. If the car is still of 169 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:10.039 the campsite when the friends arrive, that would have ruled 170 00:09:10.039 --> 00:09:12.960 out the idea that Mike was nearby. But if it 171 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:17.000 wasn't there, that opens a whole other set of questions. 172 00:09:17.559 --> 00:09:21.000 All of the sources that I saw, they consistently said 173 00:09:21.440 --> 00:09:25.159 there was a freshly made fire and Mike's gear there, 174 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:29.360 which is just so weird. Yeah, the car and license 175 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:35.320 plate weren't listed on any of the missing Persons sites, 176 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:40.480 so I have to assume based on that the vehicle 177 00:09:40.720 --> 00:09:44.039 was accounted for, whether it was at the campsite that 178 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:49.639 night or found shortly thereafter, because in other cases we've 179 00:09:49.679 --> 00:09:54.080 covered where people have just disappeared, their vehicles are listed 180 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:57.879 along their license plate. So I think if the car 181 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:03.480 wasn't accounted for, it would be mentioned. But yeah, but 182 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:06.159 it's not really spelled out in anything that I saw, 183 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:09.159 whether it was there or not there, which would have 184 00:10:09.159 --> 00:10:12.600 been really helpful to know. If the car was there, 185 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:17.600 I would say their car was still here, versus like, oh, 186 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:22.360 I see they're cooler in their backpacker here, right, So 187 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:24.799 I just thought that was kind of a strange detail 188 00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:28.919 or lack of detail. As the friends were starting to 189 00:10:28.960 --> 00:10:32.440 wonder where Mike, like really wonder where Mike was, and 190 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.799 they were probably unloading some of their gear, just kind 191 00:10:34.840 --> 00:10:39.000 of assessing the situation. A man walks out of the woods, 192 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:42.879 just emerging from the darkness, and if that's not creepy enough, 193 00:10:43.200 --> 00:10:46.879 he was also carrying a forty five automatic pistol. 194 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:48.360 Super suspicious. 195 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:49.879 Mm hmm, yep. 196 00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:52.480 I mean, a stranger lurking at the edge of the 197 00:10:52.519 --> 00:10:56.600 woods in the middle of the night is pretty concerning 198 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:57.320 in its own right. 199 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.799 But then to be like, hey, I also have a gun. 200 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:03.879 Great, and it's right near where your friend is supposed 201 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:06.919 to be set up for camp and they're missing, and 202 00:11:07.240 --> 00:11:10.720 all of that together just probably doesn't sit well. 203 00:11:11.440 --> 00:11:15.720 No, very uncomfortable. The first thing this guy says to 204 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:21.840 Mike's friends was are you looking for Mikey? And that 205 00:11:22.720 --> 00:11:28.000 immediately felt weird to his friends because Mike never went 206 00:11:28.039 --> 00:11:31.159 by Mikey. That wasn't his nickname. His friends had never 207 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:32.799 heard anybody refer. 208 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:36.679 To him as Mikey. He was Michael or Mike. That's it. 209 00:11:37.159 --> 00:11:41.559 Yeah, I call my brother Mikey when I'm trying to 210 00:11:41.559 --> 00:11:44.759 be irritating, but nobody else calls him that. 211 00:11:44.799 --> 00:11:45.480 I don't think. 212 00:11:45.919 --> 00:11:48.399 Well, if I showed up to a campsite that you're 213 00:11:48.399 --> 00:11:50.919 supposed to be at and some man comes out of 214 00:11:50.960 --> 00:11:53.240 the woods with a gun and says you look him 215 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:55.120 for Danny, I'd be like, uh. 216 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:56.799 Who excuse you? 217 00:11:57.399 --> 00:12:01.159 Yeah, this whole situation is so weird. For the next 218 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.759 six hours, while Mike's friends were waiting at the campsite 219 00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:08.399 hoping that Mike was going to return, this guy, who 220 00:12:08.440 --> 00:12:12.440 was later identified as Joseph Tyne, was just hanging out 221 00:12:12.759 --> 00:12:16.159 throughout those six hours. He was just hanging out. He 222 00:12:16.200 --> 00:12:21.200 repeatedly was cocking the gun. He never pointed at anybody, 223 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.600 he never fired it, just casually cocking his gun. 224 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:26.759 Yeah, weird. 225 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:29.440 I don't know any setting where that would be not 226 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:32.559 unsettling because it's like it's like, okay, like if. 227 00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.200 We were sitting around like daylight of the campfire, No, 228 00:12:36.240 --> 00:12:37.000 it's still be weird. 229 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:38.320 Yeah. Absolutely. 230 00:12:38.840 --> 00:12:42.879 Mike's friends also noticed that it looked like this guy 231 00:12:43.120 --> 00:12:45.279 appeared to be wearing Mike's boots. 232 00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:50.840 So many things are just not yeah giving me good 233 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.080 like feelings about this now. 234 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.000 They would later report that detail to the police when 235 00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:59.080 they would ultimately report Mike missing in the daylight hours, 236 00:12:59.679 --> 00:13:03.720 but it was never confirmed if the boots the man 237 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:07.480 was wearing belonged to Mike or not, which okay, what 238 00:13:07.559 --> 00:13:09.360 if they're just tan. 239 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.799 Like kind of like work boot style like Timberlain. 240 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.679 Like, yeah, like a very like common or popular type 241 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:21.480 of boot, or just a very kind of generic type 242 00:13:21.480 --> 00:13:21.879 of boot. 243 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:26.279 Right, I'm sure you can picture winter ll Bean boots 244 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:30.200 right those look like I mean, tons of other brands 245 00:13:30.279 --> 00:13:32.519 have boots that look just like that, and tons of 246 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:38.879 people have probably even the same brand. But still, it 247 00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:43.080 was unnerving enough that they noted it. I find it 248 00:13:43.120 --> 00:13:46.120 very strange. But there were no additional details about what 249 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:49.879 transpired that night while everyone just sat around in the darkness, 250 00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:55.440 while Mike was Mia and this stranger Joseph played with 251 00:13:55.480 --> 00:14:01.399 his gun and hung around uninvited, Like, I need to 252 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:03.600 know what was going on? Did they ask him to 253 00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:07.759 leave and he didn't? Did they just hope that he 254 00:14:07.799 --> 00:14:11.320 would leave? Did they have campfire chats to get to 255 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:13.720 know each other? Like, what was happening? That's a long time. 256 00:14:14.559 --> 00:14:17.039 It is a long time. And the fact that he 257 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:21.720 referred to him as Mikey I would be grilling him 258 00:14:21.919 --> 00:14:25.879 on other details to be like, was that just did 259 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.080 they meet each other in passing so he just caught 260 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:31.960 his name in that way, or did he actually encounter 261 00:14:32.080 --> 00:14:36.399 my friend and has more information and knows more about him, 262 00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.320 And do I need to get out of here and 263 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:39.919 report this. 264 00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.320 I'm unsure if the friends were just because he had 265 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.240 a gun, just very uncomfortable and they didn't want. 266 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.919 To push this guy, which I think is fair. You know, 267 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:55.879 did somebody like say like, oh, so tired, we should 268 00:14:55.919 --> 00:14:58.679 turn in and he was like, no, We're staying up. 269 00:14:59.000 --> 00:14:59.480 I don't know. 270 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:06.080 I want more information about this whole situation, the social setting. 271 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:11.600 I want to know about the uncomfortable trying to get 272 00:15:11.639 --> 00:15:14.240 somebody to leave without asking them to leave. 273 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.399 Yeah, you want to be a fly on the wall 274 00:15:16.440 --> 00:15:19.039 of this hole of how this all unfolded. 275 00:15:19.399 --> 00:15:21.679 Yeah, what's reported missing? 276 00:15:21.879 --> 00:15:26.000 The Sheriff's apartment responded with a search and rescue team 277 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:29.240 or several search and rescue teams. They brought in divers, 278 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:34.240 they brought in dogs, but despite an extensive search, nothing 279 00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:38.639 was found, not even any footprints that could have told 280 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.360 them which direction Mike could have gone in. 281 00:15:41.759 --> 00:15:44.200 There was nothing to indicate what could have happened. 282 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:49.559 Four days after Mike disappeared, Matilda returned to the campsite. 283 00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:54.440 She was definitely dehydrated, and it sounds like she was 284 00:15:55.320 --> 00:15:59.759 kind of out of sorts. I saw her described as disoriented, 285 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:03.720 which I was trying to decide if a dog can 286 00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:07.200 really be disoriented, But I guess yeah. 287 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:09.360 I mean, it's impressive that she made it back to 288 00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:11.840 this campsite. I mean, we don't know where she was. 289 00:16:12.320 --> 00:16:14.919 I assume we're not privy to that at least yet. 290 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:17.600 But she could only be so disoriented if she was 291 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.840 able to find her way back to where she was. 292 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:27.120 But if she's dehydrated, if she's emaciated, and if she 293 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.080 saw something happen to her owner, and she's coming back 294 00:16:31.120 --> 00:16:35.360 sort of acting restless or agitated or just something that 295 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:38.480 seems out of character, maybe that's what it's referring to. 296 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:42.799 Yeah, that's kind of how I interpreted it because I'm like, Okay, well, 297 00:16:42.879 --> 00:16:44.960 if she made it back to camp, she was pretty 298 00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:50.559 well oriented in my opinion, but out of sorts or distressed, Yeah, 299 00:16:50.639 --> 00:16:55.039 I think those words probably make more sense. Yeah, of course, 300 00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:58.799 searchers were hoping that she could lead them back to 301 00:16:58.879 --> 00:17:02.360 wherever mic was, and they tried to get her to 302 00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:05.920 do that, but there's no luck. The dog had returned, 303 00:17:06.279 --> 00:17:11.000 but Mike didn't. She had survived whatever happened and made 304 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:13.920 it back to camp on her own. I know a 305 00:17:13.960 --> 00:17:16.440 lot of people would love to be able to communicate 306 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.799 with animals, just to have a chat with them, but 307 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:24.079 I'm sure in these situations it must be so frustrating 308 00:17:24.279 --> 00:17:29.200 to have a witness to whatever happened. Whether it was 309 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.799 an accident or Mike did leave on his own, we 310 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:36.519 have no idea, but it would be great if his 311 00:17:36.680 --> 00:17:38.519 dog could share what happened. 312 00:17:38.920 --> 00:17:39.559 Yeah. 313 00:17:39.599 --> 00:17:43.720 There are also accounts from Mike's brother suggesting that there 314 00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:47.599 was at least one witness who reported that Mike was 315 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:52.599 actually seen at a cabin near Pinecrest, not Sandbar Flat, 316 00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:56.480 on the day he disappeared. That wasn't ever proven, but 317 00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.079 if that is true, it means whatever happened may not 318 00:18:01.119 --> 00:18:05.359 have started at the campsite, which means the point of 319 00:18:05.440 --> 00:18:08.440 origin for the search may have been off. I'm not 320 00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:13.559 really sure what the distance between this cabin and the 321 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:18.160 campsite would have been, but in a search like that, 322 00:18:19.039 --> 00:18:22.359 not having the correct starting point obviously can make a 323 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:26.880 big difference. Right, Nine months after Mike vanished, investigators gave 324 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:31.680 Joseph Tyne a polygraph. The results were never made public, 325 00:18:31.759 --> 00:18:35.039 and he was never charged in connection with Mike's disappearance. 326 00:18:35.920 --> 00:18:41.440 So presumably, I don't know, you can't really get anything 327 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:44.200 just because just because you fail a polygraph doesn't mean 328 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.880 they have any additional they have any evidence against you. 329 00:18:48.519 --> 00:18:51.359 Yeah, And then like I go back to the boots. 330 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.039 Of course, you can't just hijack someone's boots just because 331 00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.839 they look like someone you know, like, but it I'd 332 00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:02.799 be interested if they had been able to DNA test 333 00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.240 those boots that he was wearing, if they would have 334 00:19:05.480 --> 00:19:07.920 had Mike's DNA on them, you. 335 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.599 Know, or even just check the size, right. 336 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:14.079 Like anything to officially be able to rule them out 337 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:16.480 as belonging to him or not. Right. 338 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:21.519 Records indicated that his gun was checked and no shells 339 00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:24.400 had been spent at the time of Mike's disappearance, although 340 00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:27.880 I don't know how that could be proven because couldn't 341 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:28.839 he have just reloaded. 342 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:34.160 I think there's probably more trace evidence with a firearm 343 00:19:34.200 --> 00:19:35.839 where they'd be able to see. 344 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:41.279 They didn't say, there was no mention of them doing 345 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:45.480 any GSR testing, which which I would think would be 346 00:19:45.559 --> 00:19:50.079 more relevant to has this gun been recently fired than 347 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.720 do or all the bullets accounted for, because somebody could reload. 348 00:19:55.480 --> 00:20:01.480 Yeah. But also if there was an encounter between him 349 00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:05.680 and Mike and there was foul play involved, he could 350 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:11.559 have even just used that gun as intimidation, yeah, to 351 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.200 get Mike to do what he wanted him to do, 352 00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.960 without needing to actually fire any rounds. 353 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:18.640 After no new. 354 00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:22.039 Information came to light, investigators did ultimately say that they 355 00:20:22.119 --> 00:20:24.240 believed that Mike was the victim of foul play and 356 00:20:24.440 --> 00:20:28.319 likely dead. Investigators have never closed the case, but without 357 00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:33.480 any new information, the case went cold. Since his disappearance, 358 00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:40.559 few distinct theories have emerged online and elsewhere about what 359 00:20:40.640 --> 00:20:44.160 may have happened to Mike. The first one, obviously being 360 00:20:44.400 --> 00:20:49.440 Joseph Tyne, is probably the biggest, most discussed theory for 361 00:20:49.559 --> 00:20:52.400 good reason. A man appears in the middle of the 362 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:55.519 night when your friend happens to be missing from where 363 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:01.319 they should be. This guy has a gun, using a 364 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:05.799 nickname very close to your missing friend's name, and possibly 365 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:10.200 wearing the missing person's boots, and then spend six hours 366 00:21:10.279 --> 00:21:11.559 uncomfortably hanging around. 367 00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:19.839 I do say that's that's a weird situation. Yeah, that's suspicious, 368 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:20.799 and rightfully so. 369 00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:24.079 That's not behavior that would be typical of someone who 370 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.720 just stumbled onto the wrong campsite. 371 00:21:28.079 --> 00:21:31.640 Well, also, if someone just came out of the woodworks 372 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:36.160 like that and your friend is missing, wouldn't you want 373 00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:40.079 to be out looking for him? And would that person 374 00:21:40.160 --> 00:21:41.519 join in and be like, oh, I mean, I can 375 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:44.480 help you look for your friend. I give a little 376 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:47.839 bit of inside like I didn't see him, I've been 377 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:50.599 out here since whatever time, or I did see him, 378 00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.480 but that was like five hours ago and I saw 379 00:21:53.680 --> 00:21:58.119 walking in this direction, or as you said, I'm so 380 00:21:58.279 --> 00:22:01.960 curious what happened in those six hours. 381 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:06.920 Right, because I would likely want to continue looking for 382 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:10.559 my friend or calling for my friend. And I do 383 00:22:10.720 --> 00:22:16.599 wonder if perhaps prior to Joseph emerging from the woods, 384 00:22:16.640 --> 00:22:21.079 if they were calling out for Mike or calling for 385 00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:28.519 Matilda even and did he hear the people calling and 386 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.160 did he misshear Michael or Mike or Matilda and get mikey. 387 00:22:33.880 --> 00:22:34.319 Out of that. 388 00:22:35.079 --> 00:22:38.720 Yeah, but again, like I don't know, there's just there's 389 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:41.400 just not enough information. It's very weird because even if 390 00:22:41.400 --> 00:22:43.599 you were like, oh, hey, you sound like you're distressed. 391 00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:47.200 I hear you calling for someone, Then what are you 392 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:47.799 gonna help them? 393 00:22:47.839 --> 00:22:49.880 Or are you just gonna lurk? 394 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:50.920 Exactly? 395 00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:55.359 Investigators clearly felt that this behavior was suspicious enough to 396 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:01.119 administer a polygraph test, but again there were were never released, 397 00:23:01.200 --> 00:23:04.559 so we really have no idea if that works for 398 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:09.319 or against him, right, and the absence of spent shells 399 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.440 in his gun doesn't. 400 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:11.839 Really clear him. 401 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:14.599