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That's Chumbuck Casino dot com and 19 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:51.240 live the Chumba Laan. 20 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:53.960 No processary dwod wherever I lost the terms conditions eighteen 21 00:00:53.960 --> 00:00:55.359 plus love. 22 00:01:05.400 --> 00:01:08.840 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 23 00:01:08.920 --> 00:01:11.959 Killers in true crime History and the authors that have 24 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:19.599 written about them. Gasey Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker Bck. Every week, 25 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:23.599 another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and infamous 26 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:27.599 killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host, 27 00:01:28.040 --> 00:01:30.519 journalist and author Dan Zupansky. 28 00:01:40.239 --> 00:01:42.760 Good Evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the 29 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:46.120 program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime 30 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:50.120 History and the authors that have written about them. Serial 31 00:01:50.280 --> 00:01:55.719 Killer couples Bonded by sexual depravity. Abduction and Murder chronicles 32 00:01:55.760 --> 00:01:59.480 the true crimes of sexually motivated serial killers who are intimate. 33 00:02:00.280 --> 00:02:03.840 In this latest true crime book from award winning best 34 00:02:03.879 --> 00:02:09.080 selling criminologist R. Barry Flowers, nine gripping tales examined killer 35 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:13.000 couples from America, England and Canada whose murderous reign of 36 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.879 terror knows no end till they are brought to justice. 37 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:20.120 Chapter one, we have Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck. Chapter two, 38 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:24.639 Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Chapter three, Fred West and 39 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:29.560 Rosemary West. Chapter four, Gerald Galago and Charlene Galago. Chapter five, 40 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:34.280 Douglas Clark and Carol Mary Bundy. In chapter six Alvin 41 00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:38.439 Neely and Judith an Neely, Chapter seven, Alton Coleman and 42 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:43.840 Deborah Denise Brown, Chapter eight James Gregory Marlow and Cynthia Kaufman, 43 00:02:44.199 --> 00:02:47.879 and in chapter nine Paul Bernardo and Carla Jmalka. The 44 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:50.599 book that we are featuring this evening is Serial Killer 45 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:55.560 Couples by journalist and author Are Barry Flowers. Welcome back 46 00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:58.639 to the program. Are Barry Flowers? And thank you to 47 00:02:58.680 --> 00:02:59.319 this interview. 48 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:02.120 It's my pleasure, Dan, I'm glad to be here. 49 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:04.840 Oh, thank you very much, Barry. This is going to 50 00:03:04.879 --> 00:03:08.520 be a great show, great book for a big true 51 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:11.039 crime fan like myself, and I know the audience is 52 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:14.280 a devout group of true crime fans. Here are some 53 00:03:14.360 --> 00:03:18.120 ones that we are not so familiar with, so let's 54 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:21.719 get right to it. You are an award winning true 55 00:03:21.759 --> 00:03:26.879 crime author. Exactly what compelled you to write about these 56 00:03:26.919 --> 00:03:32.240 particular couples? Why write about serial killer couples? Tell our audience. 57 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:39.560 Please, okay, Well, I wanted to write about couples who 58 00:03:39.599 --> 00:03:44.080 were intimately involved and serial killers at the same time, 59 00:03:44.199 --> 00:03:50.199 because they're unusual. You have a lot of well, most 60 00:03:50.199 --> 00:03:54.800 of the killers that are serial killers are solo killers. 61 00:03:55.240 --> 00:04:03.000 One they operate alone and all across the country. And 62 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:10.000 then you have killers who are pairs or even in 63 00:04:10.039 --> 00:04:14.159 a group, but they're not romantically involved, so you know, 64 00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:17.959 they don't have the same type invested interest in the relationships. 65 00:04:18.040 --> 00:04:24.399 So with serial killer couples, I wanted to examine killers 66 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:30.480 who are involved in their romantic lives as well as 67 00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:35.399 this uh desire to kill Right. 68 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.519 Now, now, you could have picked there are you know, 69 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:44.439 even though it's fairly unusual to have serial killer couples, 70 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:49.000 it's amazing that you've had even these nine incredible examples. 71 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:53.680 But please tell us what was the criteria used to 72 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:57.120 sort of whittle that list down to these nine extraordinary 73 00:04:57.160 --> 00:05:00.360 serial killer couples. What criteria did you use used to 74 00:05:00.399 --> 00:05:03.759 pick from the you know, numerous ones that you could 75 00:05:03.759 --> 00:05:05.879 have picked from in you know, the course of history, 76 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:08.399 because you have some older cases here and some more 77 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:10.480 recent cases. So tell us what were you what was 78 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.879 your criteria used to pick these particular serial killer couples. 79 00:05:15.160 --> 00:05:19.879 Well, I wanted to focus on couples who were not 80 00:05:19.920 --> 00:05:25.560 only intimately involved, but uh were sexually motivated in their 81 00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:31.439 killings and right desire to kill, and so that in 82 00:05:31.480 --> 00:05:36.519 and of itself separated them from some killers who may kill, 83 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:41.240 for example, for money, with money being their primary motivation. 84 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.680 Right And the case of all these killers, they were 85 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:51.240 driven largely by the need to sexual depravity, need to 86 00:05:51.319 --> 00:06:01.560 sexually assault, to enslave their victims, to fourth their will 87 00:06:01.720 --> 00:06:05.279 upon them to do what they wanted, sexual slavery. 88 00:06:07.160 --> 00:06:13.519 Right now, let's let's get to the cases in specifically 89 00:06:13.920 --> 00:06:17.279 that you've picked for your incredible book. And let's start 90 00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:22.000 with chapter one with Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck and 91 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:26.439 and tell us a little bit that these are These 92 00:06:26.480 --> 00:06:30.959 were termed the Lonely Hearts Killers. Yes, and so tell 93 00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.000 us first why they were called the Lonely Hearts killers. 94 00:06:34.000 --> 00:06:36.079 Give us a little bit of that background, and then 95 00:06:36.079 --> 00:06:40.319 tell us in what and whereabouts exactly because you said 96 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:43.680 there's cases from England and America and Canada. So tell 97 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:46.920 us where this case was and around what time frame, 98 00:06:47.000 --> 00:06:50.879 what era it was, and please explain why they were 99 00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:54.839 termed or coined the Lonely Hearts Killers. 100 00:06:55.079 --> 00:06:59.199 Okay, I'd be happy to Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck 101 00:06:59.319 --> 00:07:04.560 were killers in the nineteen forties in America. They were 102 00:07:04.639 --> 00:07:09.040 dubbed Lonely Hearts killers. By the press because they were 103 00:07:09.079 --> 00:07:16.160 meeting victims, targeting victims who placed lonely hearts ads in 104 00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:24.040 personal ads in magazines and newspapers. So they preyed upon 105 00:07:24.279 --> 00:07:32.879 lonely women gullible looking for love, and hence the lonely 106 00:07:32.920 --> 00:07:40.879 hearts killers and the Fernandez and Beck. In addition to 107 00:07:41.040 --> 00:07:46.920 wanting to take advantage of these women sexually, they were 108 00:07:46.959 --> 00:07:50.959 interested in building from them anything they could get their 109 00:07:51.000 --> 00:07:57.439 hands on, money, other items of value, and so they 110 00:07:57.480 --> 00:08:04.279 were the consummate con artists as well as assaulting these 111 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:10.759 vulnerable women sexually and then murdering them. I should add 112 00:08:10.759 --> 00:08:16.000 that Martha Beck was around three hundred pounds, so she 113 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:22.879 they had an unusual relationship. Say the least turned Raymond Fernandez, 114 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.480 but they were I mean, he was a good looking 115 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:35.919 guy from born in Hawaii and uh but he and 116 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.799 the two what they had in common was their desire 117 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:45.039 to murder and to con people out of their money. 118 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:52.279 And so a problem arose here in which the three 119 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:59.600 hundred pounds Martha Beck found herself jealous increasingly as they 120 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.960 had an actually been conning women and then moving on 121 00:09:04.080 --> 00:09:09.879 to new victims, letting those previous victims live. But the 122 00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:16.240 more this went on the more. Uh, Raymond Fernandez was 123 00:09:16.240 --> 00:09:20.000 sexually involved with the victims, all this part of the 124 00:09:20.120 --> 00:09:26.360 Khan and sexual motivation, but Marx that grew increasingly jealous 125 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:29.559 and she began to take that jealousy out on the 126 00:09:29.639 --> 00:09:35.039 victim on the victims of the Khan, that she felt 127 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:39.240 that it wasn't enough just to rob them blind. She 128 00:09:39.320 --> 00:09:43.360 wanted them dead because they were sexually active with their men. 129 00:09:44.559 --> 00:09:52.120 And so that's really the impetus for turning from being 130 00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:57.720 con artists and uh, sexually active with these women to 131 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:04.639 murdering them. And uh, they would to keep this. 132 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.399 Sorry, what was the what was the what found interesting 133 00:10:10.519 --> 00:10:13.159 was what was the practice of voodoo? What did that 134 00:10:13.279 --> 00:10:16.120 have to do with this with these murders of anything? 135 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:22.000 Oh? Well, uh, actually the voodoo was something that Raymond 136 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:26.679 Fernandez said. I don't think he actually believed in voodoo, 137 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:29.919 but he used this as a means to convince others 138 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:38.320 that he was a person that was almost invulnerable to harm, right, 139 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:42.679 which is strange in a way considering he was in 140 00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:50.000 an accident on a boat afraider heading to America and 141 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:55.080 he was hit in the head by something on the boat. 142 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:59.399 A still hatch fell and hit him right on the 143 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:01.519 top of his head and he was seriously injured, had 144 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:06.240 a factor's go and damaged to his frontal lobe. Anyway, 145 00:11:06.279 --> 00:11:10.320 this appearance he caused his personality to change, and that's 146 00:11:10.360 --> 00:11:16.639 when he began going into these going after these lonely 147 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:24.360 hearts women and met Martha Beck and turned to murder 148 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:28.039 as part of their to few of their fantasies and 149 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:31.559 their desire to control these women. 150 00:11:33.039 --> 00:11:36.720 It's interesting too that she says that around she had 151 00:11:36.720 --> 00:11:39.519 a glandular problem, so that around ten years old she 152 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:43.480 was fully formed like an adult with the sex drive 153 00:11:43.519 --> 00:11:44.159 of an adult. 154 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:50.440 Yes, yes, that is true, and so that was part 155 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:54.600 of her She actually placed an ad herself, a lonely 156 00:11:54.600 --> 00:11:57.960 heart's ad that Raymond Fernandez answered, and that's how they 157 00:11:58.000 --> 00:12:04.799 got together. So she was definitely sexually charged. She often 158 00:12:06.240 --> 00:12:11.559 betted men in the military before she became involved with Fernandez. 159 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:20.559 This couple were arrested see February twenty ninth, I believe, 160 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.559 nineteen forty nine in Michigan, right after they'd murdered one 161 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:28.240 of their victims, a forty one year old woman and 162 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:35.200 her two year old daughter, and Fernandez and Beck had 163 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:39.360 also murdered a woman in New York prior to that, 164 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:45.360 so they confessed to the murder in Michigan under the 165 00:12:45.399 --> 00:12:47.679 hope that they would not have to go to New 166 00:12:47.759 --> 00:12:50.919 York because there was no death penalty in Michigan, right 167 00:12:51.080 --> 00:12:55.879 that was in New York. So they signed a long confession, 168 00:12:56.679 --> 00:13:01.840 getting assurances of the cuating attorneys that they wouldn't be 169 00:13:02.200 --> 00:13:08.279 extradited to New York. But unfortunately the pressure was put 170 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:11.200 on them by the New York authorities who wanted to 171 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:16.639 see them die fry for their crimes against one of 172 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:23.759 their citizens. So Michigan renigged them the deal and extradited 173 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:29.240 the two to New York, where they trial for murdering 174 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:37.440 a woman and were found guilty sentenced to death in 175 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:44.080 August nineteen forty nine, and on March eighth, nineteen fifty one, 176 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:47.600 Fernandous and Beck were actually executed in the electric chair 177 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.399 at Sing Sing Present for their crimes. 178 00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:56.279 Right now, the let's talk about seventeen women, Do we 179 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.559 know the actual tally of people they did actually did murder? 180 00:14:01.000 --> 00:14:07.000 Because when they were arrested, Raymond Fernandez was quite flamboyant 181 00:14:07.080 --> 00:14:10.759 and was quoted as saying, I'm no average killer and 182 00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:14.159 he talked about his power and in his way with women, 183 00:14:14.360 --> 00:14:18.879 he told investigators. So was there some sort of embellishment 184 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.279 or were they quite sure that tell us what the 185 00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:24.440 tally was officially on how many murders. 186 00:14:24.519 --> 00:14:31.240 The official tally was three victims, but the authorities believe 187 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:34.080 that they may have killed as many as twenty. But 188 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:39.720 because they were moving around, they weren't able to pin 189 00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:42.840 down some of these others that they still strongly suspected 190 00:14:42.879 --> 00:14:43.679 they were guilty of. 191 00:14:44.679 --> 00:14:48.519 Right, and it really captured national attention at this time 192 00:14:48.639 --> 00:14:53.200 because of the shocking nature of the crimes and the 193 00:14:53.519 --> 00:14:57.399 lurid details and the graphics and you know, the horrible details. 194 00:14:57.399 --> 00:15:00.960 They drowned the two year old child just because they 195 00:15:00.960 --> 00:15:01.919 wouldn't stop crying. 196 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:08.840 Yes, yes, they were certainly pair that stood out during 197 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:12.519 that time, and they weren't afraid to talk about their 198 00:15:12.639 --> 00:15:19.679 sexual excapades in graphic detail during the trial. And they 199 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:26.600 just were unusual couple in the nineteen forties of being 200 00:15:26.679 --> 00:15:35.399 a male female killing team that was motivated as much 201 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:41.320 by sexual conquest as profit. And it caught up to 202 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.639 them and they paid the ultimate price. 203 00:15:44.639 --> 00:15:49.399 Right, A very interesting case. Let's move now to Ian 204 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:53.120 Brady and Myra Hindley, and this is from the UK, 205 00:15:53.240 --> 00:15:58.799 from England, and their murders were called the Moors murders. 206 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:04.639 Interesting case two because there was a witness that was 207 00:16:04.679 --> 00:16:11.360 important that trial, and because this witness not only witnessed 208 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.519 the murder itself by Ian Brady. Watch this guy axe 209 00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:20.679 murder someone that also he's also privy to their confession 210 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:24.080 and they're boasting about other murders. So tell us about 211 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.320 Ian Brady and Myra Hindley, and tell us again about 212 00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:30.919 what year or what era this was, and tell us 213 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:34.200 a little bit about David Smith and Ian Brady and 214 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:35.039 Myra Hindley. 215 00:16:35.720 --> 00:16:39.840 Okay, well, Ian Brady and Myra Hindley were British serial 216 00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:49.120 killers in the nineteen sixties. They were murdered five children, 217 00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.440 sixtually assaulting them as well, and these became known as 218 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:59.440 the More Murders, a reflection of the fact that most 219 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:02.000 of the victims who buried in the saddle Worth More 220 00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.839 which is right now and it's private Greater Manchester, England. 221 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:17.000 So Brady and Hindy were pretty fascinated with phonography and 222 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:22.440 committing the perfect murder. The two were inspired by American 223 00:17:22.519 --> 00:17:28.079 teen killers Richard Loebe and Nathan Leopold who murdered a 224 00:17:28.119 --> 00:17:31.440 fourteen year old named Bobby Frank in Chicago during the 225 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:43.079 nineteen twenties. So anyway, Hindy and Brady were interested in 226 00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:53.079 abducting children, sexually assaulting them, torturing them, and killing them. 227 00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.000 And David Smith. 228 00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:58.680 Was the. 229 00:18:00.400 --> 00:18:04.039 He started off being just a friend of the two, 230 00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:11.759 but he ultimately married Myra, Hindy's sister, so he became 231 00:18:11.799 --> 00:18:17.359 her brother in law right, But he also was hanging 232 00:18:17.400 --> 00:18:19.759 around the two enough to see some of the things 233 00:18:19.759 --> 00:18:25.039 they were doing. And he with one hand deregu it is. 234 00:18:25.039 --> 00:18:27.200 Ryan here, and I have a question for you. What 235 00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:29.960 do you do when you win? Like? Are you a 236 00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:33.279 fist pumper, a woo, a handclapp or a high fiver? 237 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:34.920 I kind of like the high five. 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And 265 00:19:34.240 --> 00:19:38.640 then I and Brady attempted to get David Smith to 266 00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:44.200 help him to dispose of the body, but ultimately he 267 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:48.599 went to the authorities to report what he had witnessed 268 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.559 and his role, which consisted of helping to move the 269 00:19:52.599 --> 00:20:01.319 body from one room to another. So ultimately he pointed 270 00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:09.839 the finger at his friends, his wife's sister and her 271 00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:16.039 man in her life in Brady and they were finally 272 00:20:16.039 --> 00:20:21.960 brought to justice after being able to successfully murder these 273 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:28.920 young children. Uh burying most of them in the moors, 274 00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:38.799 and they were ultimately found guilty of most of the murders. 275 00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:43.480 At least one of the children was never found, UH, 276 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:46.920 but fortunately they were able to locate most of them, 277 00:20:47.000 --> 00:20:50.480 and Brady was convicted on three of the murders in 278 00:20:50.599 --> 00:20:56.480 Hindi two of them, and Uh Brady received three concurrent 279 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.200 life sentences and Hindy got two lifeent. 280 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:06.720 But was it David Smith that actually was told by 281 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:10.920 Ian Brady and Myra Hindley or was it his wife 282 00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:15.079 which was Myra Hindley's sister, which one of them actually 283 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.519 had heard the details of them burying the children and 284 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:22.000 that's when that prompted the police that had enough I 285 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:25.680 guess enough enough warrant to be able to go search 286 00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.839 this area and then they found four the four of 287 00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:32.359 the bodies in those moors there. So which which was 288 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:34.559 it David or was it was it his wife that 289 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:38.920 actually had heard them boasting about that there was other victims? 290 00:21:39.319 --> 00:21:44.400 And was actually David actually David He had a sort 291 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:51.319 of a bond with Ian Brady, and Brady liked to 292 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:55.920 brag about his crimes and he had just the right 293 00:21:55.960 --> 00:22:01.000 person to listen at the time, and Uh of course, 294 00:22:01.039 --> 00:22:04.839 that ended up backfiring on him later as David Smith 295 00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.599 finally did the right thing for himself and his wife 296 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.680 and went to the authorities. 297 00:22:12.599 --> 00:22:12.799 Right. 298 00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:18.279 Ian Brady was ultimately career to be criminally insane, sent 299 00:22:18.359 --> 00:22:21.640 to a psychiatric hospital where he remains to this date. 300 00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:27.240 Interesting. Interesting, And we'll talk about another case that was 301 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:30.640 they were an American case where they talk about that 302 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.240 there were the US counterpart to Ian Brady and Mara Henley. 303 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:36.920 We'll talk about that that couple a little bit later 304 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:40.559 as we go through this. Now the next chapter, you 305 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.559 have a couple that is quite notorious. I just saw 306 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:48.960 a program on Investigation Discovery about these two people, and 307 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:54.519 I've read numerous stuff. Fred and Rosemary West. Please tell 308 00:22:54.599 --> 00:22:57.799 us about this notorious serial killer couple. 309 00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:04.599 Oh, Fred West and Rosemary West about as wicked as 310 00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:08.079 they come, as they were richterial killers during the nineteen 311 00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:14.759 seventies nineteen eighties. They were believed to have murdered at 312 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:18.240 least eleven young females and possibly as many as thirty, 313 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.119 including two of their own children. 314 00:23:21.839 --> 00:23:22.400 Incredible. 315 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:32.000 They were motivated, as were these other serial killer couples 316 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:38.680 covered in this book, by sexual desires, perverse sexual desires 317 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:45.759 and having pleat control over their victims and torturing them 318 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:50.480 and knowing that they could get away with something and 319 00:23:50.599 --> 00:23:53.359 fielding they had to upper hand on society at large, 320 00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:58.119 and unfortunately they did for a while there they would 321 00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:07.839 often target unaways and people looking for vert They would 322 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:12.400 offer them lodging or working as a nanny for them. 323 00:24:12.599 --> 00:24:19.759 They had eight children the West between them, and on 324 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:24.559 top of that, Rosemary was a part time prostitute during 325 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.680 this time and some of those children were actually fathered 326 00:24:27.720 --> 00:24:30.000 by some of her clients. 327 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:30.720 Wow. 328 00:24:31.839 --> 00:24:35.799 But on top of that, she and Fred West were 329 00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:39.440 incestuous with some of their own some of their children, 330 00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:44.480 some of their daughters. This was a sexual deviance that 331 00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:50.079 was passed down from the generations, as Rosemary's father was 332 00:24:50.119 --> 00:24:53.720 incestuous toward her and at least one of her children 333 00:24:54.759 --> 00:25:05.200 his granddaughters. So Fred West and Rosemary West were probably 334 00:25:05.599 --> 00:25:12.799 the most infamous as a couple amongst serial killers in 335 00:25:12.839 --> 00:25:22.440 the UK, and they finally were brought to justice June 336 00:25:23.240 --> 00:25:27.839 nineteen ninety four. They were charged with eleven murders. Fred 337 00:25:27.920 --> 00:25:33.000 was charged with eleven, Rosemary ten, and then shortly after 338 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:36.119 Fred was charged with yet another murders, one of his 339 00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:43.559 victims was unearthed see in nineteen ninety five. January nineteen 340 00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:47.079 ninety five, Fred West hung himself in his jail before 341 00:25:47.119 --> 00:25:52.960 he could go to Trout, so he black Church, who 342 00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:58.559 faced up to what he'd done, taking what he felt 343 00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.000 was an easy way out. I guess sure. 344 00:26:01.680 --> 00:26:03.880 And they were quite elderly by the time they were 345 00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:06.400 the long arm of the law caught up with them, 346 00:26:06.440 --> 00:26:07.079 weren't they. 347 00:26:07.359 --> 00:26:11.960 Yes, yes, they were older than the typical serial killers, 348 00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:19.440 but still active enough to do what they were doing, 349 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:27.440 to be able to lure these young people runaways others 350 00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:31.880 looking for a place to stay. They could have gone 351 00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:38.480 on indefinitely if the worlds hadn't finally begun to fall 352 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:46.599 off and they were discovered their secret. I mean, they 353 00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:51.599 were burying these victims right on their own property, and 354 00:26:51.799 --> 00:26:56.240 it was just incredible that they were able to get 355 00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:59.640 away with this for really a long time, by the 356 00:26:59.759 --> 00:27:05.119 days of serial killers, spanning parts of two decades. 357 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:11.599 And how were they finally apprehended for those people that 358 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:12.160 don't know. 359 00:27:13.680 --> 00:27:20.839 Oh, well, they were apprehended once one of their daughters 360 00:27:20.920 --> 00:27:29.640 that was missing presumed dead. Eventually Fred West confessed to 361 00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:35.359 killing this child and how he killed her, I mean 362 00:27:35.839 --> 00:27:40.200 they were. He killed her the same way he killed 363 00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:48.880 most of the others, murdering through torture and then mutilating 364 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:53.680 after death. He chopped up most of the bodies and 365 00:27:53.720 --> 00:27:57.680 buried them on the property. So the authorities have been 366 00:27:57.680 --> 00:28:03.319 looking for this daughter, and once they were able to 367 00:28:05.200 --> 00:28:11.480 her remains, they found other children, other young adults, and 368 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:17.119 you know, the whole thing broke wide open as they 369 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.359 both again consessing and blaming one another. Rosemary and Fred, 370 00:28:22.960 --> 00:28:29.559 they are just figurable actions, and the police realized just 371 00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.279 you know what they had on their hands, serial killers 372 00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:38.880 of the worst kind, right, incredible. Rosemary was eventually convicted 373 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.160 of killing ten and was sentenced to life in prison. 374 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:50.799 Now, tell us about this is. This is one that 375 00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:54.119 I know that you're very intimate with, having we already 376 00:28:54.119 --> 00:28:58.960 spoke about the subject of sex slave murders, which was 377 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:04.200 Gerald and Charlene Galago for those people that don't know, 378 00:29:04.240 --> 00:29:08.240 because this is these are not so familiar, these two 379 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:13.559 Gerald and Charline Galego, but incredible, incredibly heinous criminals. These 380 00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:17.039 guys very much like Fred and Rosemary in terms of 381 00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:22.400 just despicable. Tell us about Gerald and Charlene Galago, the 382 00:29:22.519 --> 00:29:27.759 subject of your best selling book, Sex slave Murders. 383 00:29:27.319 --> 00:29:33.400 Yes, okay. Well Gerald and Chauveline Galago were a married 384 00:29:33.480 --> 00:29:41.720 couple living in California. They were serial killers that targeted 385 00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:49.480 mostly girls and young adults females in the late nineteen 386 00:29:49.480 --> 00:29:54.880 seventies and early nineteen eighties. They were fueled by sexa fantasies, 387 00:29:55.759 --> 00:30:04.319 whereas Gerald had visions of finding girls who would fulfill 388 00:30:04.400 --> 00:30:12.279 all his sexual desires, perverse and otherwise, and so he 389 00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:18.720 found a willing partner in Charlene, who served as the 390 00:30:18.839 --> 00:30:27.599 lure most of the times, enticing victims through offers of 391 00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:33.400 smoking marijuana or passing out flyers, and so once she 392 00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:38.079 could get them outside over to their van, Gerald was 393 00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:42.920 always their waiting with one of his many guns. When 394 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:49.200 she forced them into the van and sexually assault, torture, 395 00:30:49.279 --> 00:30:52.599 murdered them, and then dumped them in various places, often 396 00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:56.640 in the desert or some other areas. That was hard 397 00:30:57.720 --> 00:31:04.839 for the authorities to back down, and similar to the West, 398 00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:09.039 the Galagos were able to keep this going for a 399 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:19.279 while because either the victims their acts were considered runaways 400 00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:22.759 or potential runaways, or they were killing them in different 401 00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:26.480