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Speaker 1: M h.

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Speaker 2: A wall Street line, shackle change, Oh do someome gird

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it's calling my name. There is no mercy and it's

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been a tentery juice as the hill Stream game Wrangle three.

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Speaker 3: Come in by me to die inside these walls, inside

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the wild.

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Speaker 1: Hadn't went no girl as I'm hey everyone, and welcome

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back to Bloody and Gola, a podcast one hundred and

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forty two years in the making, the complete story of

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America's bloodiest present. I'm Jim Chapman, and we have a

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little surprise for you today. Look and Gola. One of

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the most intriguing things about Louisiana State Ben and Gentry

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are the people that have worked there or have worked

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there in the past. I have a guest with me today.

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You're very familiar with her. She's done multiple episodes of

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Bloody and Gola in the past. She also has her

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own podcast, Unspeakable, a true crime podcast by Kelly Jennings.

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And today I'm going to go over a little bit

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with her of her experience getting introduced in Gola, working

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in Gola, the things she did there. It's gonna be

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a really interesting podcast. But first of all, welcome to

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Bloody and Gola.

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Speaker 4: Kelly, thank you. I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 1: It's weird calling you Kelly. I usually call you kJ yeah,

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which I invented, and it's incidentally.

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Speaker 4: Someone called me kJ a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 5: We were somewhere and I just kept looking because I

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didn't hear it, because keep you know, in real life,

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you don't call me kJ.

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Speaker 4: Some some people do. Now some people do. But my

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daughter tapped me on the shoulder and she's like, Mom,

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you're being rude. And I was like, oh, I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 1: Well, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 2: I know you.

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Speaker 1: I know you've done this show several times in the past,

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and I want to talk about today your personal experience

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with Louisiana State Penitentiary. And I guess we'll start off

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with how the interest got in your brain. Now, for

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those of you lestening that maybe have not met Kelly,

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it's hard for people to wrap their brain around anyone

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saying I want to go work at the largest prison

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in the United States of America, one of the most historic,

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but also a reputation for a lot of danger. There's

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primarily lifers at Louisiana State Bendentiary. You don't get locked

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up there for running red lights. And so you were

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a young female when you started correct.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I was twenty No, yeah, I was

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in my early twenties, early very early twenties, twenties.

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Speaker 1: And at some point you made a decision and you said,

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I think I want to go work in prison.

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Speaker 4: I did, okay, and I'm so excited.

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Speaker 1: How does this happen?

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Speaker 4: Okay, So I'll let me back up real quick.

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Speaker 5: So I went to college at LSU, and I did

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not know what I wanted to do. I had resigned

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myself that I was gonna have to be a kindergarten teacher,

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because that my logic then was, hey, you know, more

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than a kindergartener, you probably could teach him.

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Speaker 4: I'm serious. That's give you that maybe I could do that. Well.

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Speaker 5: I took a my very first criminal justice class, criminology

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class with a professor named Yoshinori Como.

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Speaker 4: And I was enamored.

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Speaker 5: I did not know that that was such a class.

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Every word he said, I hung on. I literally read

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the textbook, which makes me a total nerve. But anyone's

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gone to college knows you're not going to sit down

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and actually read the textbook. You're real like hit some

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highlight moments. If you'ven buy the book. Yeah this, Mama.

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I sat down and I ate it up.

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Speaker 1: Was it was it the teaching style of that. It was.

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Speaker 4: It was his teaching style along with just the content.

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Speaker 5: I was very very he knew what he was talking about.

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As matter of fact, he this kind of off topic. But

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he told me he was he was from Korea. I

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think if I had that wrong, don't don't come at me.

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But he said, y'all, y'all need to get your minds right.

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And you had this accent, you know, and he said,

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because y'all talk on the phone. Soon the years are

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coming this text text text, You'll only be texting people

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you don't know in America yet, you will only be texting.

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Speaker 4: And I laughed at him. I'm like, I'm not texting.

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Look at us now. The man was cool. Ast crap.

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Speaker 5: But anyway, shout out to him if he's still a professor.

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But he Once I took that class, that was it.

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Speaker 4: It was on. All I did was watch forensic files

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and court TV.

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Speaker 5: So my mom one day told me, she said, why

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are you in school taking all these education classes when

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all you do is love crime? I said, well, what

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am I gonna do, mamma, get a degree in crime?

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And she said, yes, it's stupid, and I was like, oh,

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my bad, mama. So she really got me into these,

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you know, into the mix of criminal justice. My senior year,

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I was sitting in a juvenile justice class and a

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warden came in from Angola. Her name is Kathy Fontnau

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and she is tiny but mighty, and she just started

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talking and I was fixated. I looked around the classroom too,

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I'll never forget this, and the other students, some of

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them were kind of like just looking down, looking at

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their phone, whatever, and I'm like hanging on.

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Speaker 4: Every word that she said.

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Speaker 5: So I started asking her questions about the rodeo because

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I had been to it and I wanted to know

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things about it. She looked at me, she said, what's

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your name? I said Kelly. She said I want to

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talk to you after class. I said okay, and I

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kind of took that as like be quiet, so I

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was like, all, dang, you know, well after class, sure enough,

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she said, you're really interested, aren't you. I said, Oh,

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I'm like, I'm like sickly interested. I've always loved prison

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and crime and all that she said, how about you

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come out to Angola and I will give you a

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personal tour. And I thought I had just been invited

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to the White House. I just you know, this is

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the greatest thing. And she made good on her word

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a few days late, because I graduated just a few

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weeks like two weeks later, three weeks later, and she

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took me up on it, and I showed up. She

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got me in her car, took me on a personal

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tour the facility for someone. She brought me in the

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dorms and she told me, she said, if you want

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a job, you've got one. Really yeah, And I said,

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I'll be here tomorrow or whenever you want me to

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be here.

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Speaker 4: My mama cried, oh my god.

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Speaker 1: Wow. Interesting.

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Speaker 4: She said, you're good to my mom.

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Speaker 5: You're gonna die, I said, Mama, I mean everyone can't

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die every day.

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Speaker 1: Well, but look and looking back now, you're a parent.

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I'm a parent. I get that. I get it. I

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would be freaking the f out if my kid was like, yeah,

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I want to go working and go I mean, I

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think it'd be cool, and I would accept it, obviously,

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I was. I first thought was they'll kill you.

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Speaker 4: That's what I want.

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Speaker 5: Free.

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Speaker 1: You think you are some kind of a badass.

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Speaker 4: When I was, uh, you know, I'm twenty.

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Speaker 5: I was five foot four, maybe one hundred and ten pounds,

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but a ball of dynamite, you know, rolled up in there,

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and I'm.

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Speaker 4: Glad it did. I loved it.

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Speaker 1: So that first day, let's talk about that. So you

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get hired eventually, and you get hired for what.

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Speaker 5: So my job was what's called an ARDC specialist one.

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So you have to have a degree to I guess

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qualify classification.

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Speaker 4: That's what the job was that I got. So classification

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is going to be.

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Speaker 5: Someone that has a little bit more education than the

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average SAT.

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Speaker 4: Bit you have to have a college degree.

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Speaker 5: Yeah too, And so you know it's a little bit.

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I have a higher pay grade. I'm not acting like

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it's a warden or anything, obviously, it's it's it's still

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I would consider it entry level, but a little bit

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higher than that. And so my job was that when

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inmates would come in, I had to determine housing custody.

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Speaker 4: And quarters of the inmates do that.

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Speaker 5: So I was young, A lot of it was watching

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other people and trying to figure out what the hell

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they were doing. But this would be so you would

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have to look at what's called their jacket. Their jacket

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is their file. Basically you flip it open.

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Speaker 4: They do.

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Speaker 5: It's called aun and then you're looking and you're trying

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to determine what type of crime do they have, where

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are they from, how old are they?

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Speaker 4: You know, everything is taken.

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Speaker 5: Totality of circumstances taken in Now, obviously, if you're a

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death row inmate, you're.

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Speaker 1: Going to death row su Hell, yeah, that's easy.

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Speaker 5: But if you were really young, if you were under

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five foot seven and you're white, and you're a non

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violent offender, maybe you're three times in, you're out three

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strikes and you're out type thing or drug dealing or

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something like that, you're gonna be in a bind behind

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prism walls because you are going to be a target

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for sexual aggression and so things like that. You would

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look at them and say, all right, Padna, I'm gonna

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put you. So you have options. You We have dorms

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that are open. We have I say we I'm in

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no way affiliated with Angola, just to be fair, but anymore,

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we have working cell blocks wcb's how it would be written,

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working cell blocks. We have cell blocks there's lockdown, there's

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admin seg, there's all these different options. Majority of your inmates,

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if they're not really young, if they weren't seventeen something

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like eighteen, they're gonna go to a working cell block scenario.

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And so what that is is where you're in a

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cell block to sleep, to eat your lunch. But other

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than that, they wake you up at the buck crack

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of dawn. Get on your clothes. You're gonna walk out.

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They're gonna do count, which is taking attendance. They're gonna

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make you do what it's called dousen it up, which

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means you get into two lines that are right next

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to each other. You're gonna walk out the gate. There's

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going to be officers on horseback and they're going to

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escort you to the field. It's a working cell block,

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and so you're going to walk out with your tool

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whatever it's a hoe or whatever it is that you

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might need, swing blade or whatever. They walk you out

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to the field. You're going to pick your crops, work

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the fields. They'll march you back and you go into

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your cell to eat your lunch, and then they march

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you back out. Yeah, do your more work. The rest

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of your work and then they march you back in.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, and so you basically classified these individuals and it

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was in an effort to maybe keep them safe as

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well to an extent. I mean, you know you don't

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want to put let me give you an example. If

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you're a if you're a guy, you got a goala,

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you're fifty five years old to get you don't necessarily

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look like a threw, right, although anybody in there, yeah right,

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it looks to some Yeah, to some extent, But do

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you take aging the consideration.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and you would also take okay, maybe not on paper,

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so I know there's someone who's gonna jump on my

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throomly no out of it. But if I'm looking at

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you and let's say, let's say you murdered somebody, Okay,

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anybody's capable of anything on any day. We have people

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that are in wheelchairs, that are very sickly that can

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still pull a trigger and kill somebody. However, the constitution

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still provides that I need to Once you're in our custody,

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we still have an obligation to protect you from obvious.

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Speaker 4: Concerns.

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Speaker 5: And so maybe you come in and you're elderly and

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you're frail, and you're in a wheelchair. Well, I'm not

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going to be inclined to put you with some young

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buck who's going to be able to manipulate, harass, and

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hurt you for obvious reasons because you can't defend yourself.

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Now you know, that's worst case type scenario I'm talking.

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I mean, most people are going to just have to

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bucket out.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you're in prison.

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Speaker 4: You're in prison. You better learn to But I can

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tell you too.

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Speaker 5: And again, things have changed a lot since I've been there,

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and so like camp see I believe is now like

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a release camp type thing where we have people that

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come in.

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Speaker 4: That used to be that if you.

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Speaker 5: Weren't doing twenty years or more, you weren't really coming

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at angle. It's not that way anymore. But we used

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to have the main prison and then there's camps all

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around it. The main prison is divided into the east

247
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yard and the west yard, and we used to call

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the west yard the wild side. The east yard was

249
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more of like your old timer's been down there for

250
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a while. They're not necessarily old, but they've been there

251
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long enough to know the rules. They've calmed down a

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little bit. They don't want as much drama and all that.

253
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So we'd put those young bucks that they all, I'm

254
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coming to peruse them a fight. Okay, well you're going

255
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on the west side, the wild side, yeah, and then

256
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the other ones we kind of segregated off to the Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Ones just wanted to do their time.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I like to think of it kind of like freshmen

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in high school versus seniors. There's a distinct difference between them.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, So you start that first day, Tell me, do

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you remember what your first day was like? Do you

263
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remember nerves?

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Speaker 5: Do you remember I did not have any nerves. I

265
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think it was maybe young and dumb.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: I was more nervous about I didn't know what I

268
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was doing. Yeah, and I don't like that. Yeah, but

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I've quickly figured out that, you know, an inmate can

270
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and they will help you if you don't if you

271
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need information, But sometimes that can come at a cost,

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and so you have to just kind of learn how

273
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to navigate that. You know, you don't want to put

274
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all your trust into this inmate who's going to be

275
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very kind and very helpful and tell you all these

276
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nice things and blah blah blah when you're young. Okay,

277
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today I would tell someone to just get somewhere. But

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when you're very young and you're I'm twenty years old

279
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and I've got these sixty year old In all honesty,

280
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I've got these fifty and sixty year old men that

281
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are coming to me, and I'm running likes, you know,

282
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doing disciplinary boards and things like that. There was an

283
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element of these are my elders. And if you're not

284
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from the South, maybe it doesn't hit you that way.

285
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But I had to consciously remember I cannot say yes

286
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sir to you, and that that's been ingrained in me

287
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since I was a kid. Yes, sir and no, sir,

288
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But you can't do that in prison. I mean, you're

289
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the authority there. That was a learning curve, and I

290
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think that that was not necessarily addressed as it probably

291
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should be for young people coming into prison settings. They

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tell you about the games that are gonna be played,

293
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and you don't trust inmates, you know, blah blah blah blah.

294
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But there's a learning curve with your manners and yes sir,

295
00:14:08,639 --> 00:14:09,960
no sir. Let me tell you a little story. I

296
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,679
think've told it before, but I'll tell I'll make it brief.

297
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But we do these these boards periodically where the inmates

298
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you do call outs. They come line up and then

299
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you call them in and you do it like in

300
00:14:19,279 --> 00:14:21,399
a quick assessment on them. It's required, and it's like,

301
00:14:21,519 --> 00:14:23,159
did you have a job on the street, what was

302
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:23,759
your conviction?

303
00:14:23,879 --> 00:14:25,279
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah blah, that kind of stuff.

304
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Speaker 5: Well this I walked out on the walk and I

305
00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:30,799
had my paperwork and I said, mister Brown, mister Brown,

306
00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:35,559
and no inmate came up, but a lieutenant did on

307
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the tier and he snatched me in the room and

308
00:14:37,159 --> 00:14:39,720
he said, don't you ever call an inmate mister Brown.

309
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Speaker 4: They you are the authority.

310
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Speaker 5: And I was like, well, and he's like, no, no,

311
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:45,480
you need to learn this and someone should have taught

312
00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,919
you this. Did you ever call an inmate mister that compromises,

313
00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:50,120
you know, the authority complict?

314
00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:51,279
Speaker 4: I said, hold on.

315
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Speaker 5: No, hear me. Now, you're not gonna be on my

316
00:14:53,919 --> 00:14:55,960
you know, blah blah. I said, his name is mister.

317
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Speaker 4: He said what?

318
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Speaker 5: And I turned the paperwork around. I said his first

319
00:14:59,519 --> 00:15:03,039
name is miss. He's like, oh shit, oh that's wild,

320
00:15:03,159 --> 00:15:03,639
it's weird.

321
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Speaker 4: But his first name was mister, I said. So I

322
00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:07,759
walked out there. I was like inmate Brown, you know,

323
00:15:07,879 --> 00:15:11,200
because I but everybody you know, Brown's a common name.

324
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That's how I was called the first name.

325
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Speaker 1: But shit, wow, yeah, that lieutenant felt like an ass.

326
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Speaker 4: He's like, oh my bad, my bad. I was like, yeah,

327
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your bad.

328
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So what were the Okay, let me ask

329
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:32,600
you this. You're you're young female, you know pretty thanks?

330
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:40,080
What in that situation? What was the danger for you? Like,

331
00:15:40,159 --> 00:15:42,720
did they tell you you can't wear perfume? You can't.

332
00:15:43,559 --> 00:15:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so part of the rule book.

333
00:15:45,159 --> 00:15:47,600
Speaker 5: You get a rule book, and they're very clear, there's

334
00:15:47,639 --> 00:15:50,279
no reason to be wearing perfume. There's no reason to

335
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,960
have a ton of makeup on. There's no reason to

336
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,000
have flashy jewelry.

337
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Speaker 4: There you ought.

338
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Speaker 5: Classification too, is not a uniformed position. It's like more

339
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,360
of a professional level. Not that I don't want to

340
00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,039
say they're not profession We don't saying they don't issue

341
00:16:01,039 --> 00:16:01,720
a uniform to me.

342
00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:04,960
Speaker 4: I wore slacks, I wore dress shirts.

343
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Speaker 1: And things like business attire.

344
00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:09,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, you start wearing really tight clothing, we have an issue.

345
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Speaker 1: Did they have people that did not tell it?

346
00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:15,039
Speaker 5: Yeah, they had a few people that I couldn't understand,

347
00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:17,440
like they would wear stiletto heels, and I'm thinking the

348
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:18,759
fun like I have.

349
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,000
Speaker 1: To walk over the made on crazy girl I wear.

350
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Speaker 5: I know, I wore boots like I had these le

351
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,639
I had these leather boots.

352
00:16:26,679 --> 00:16:28,840
Speaker 1: They were tall to wearing like barking stocks.

353
00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:31,159
Speaker 5: Well, I had to have good walking shoes. You don't

354
00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,639
know how much walking that is. That's eighteen thousand acres,

355
00:16:33,639 --> 00:16:37,240
you know. So I wore these same boots almost every day.

356
00:16:37,279 --> 00:16:39,399
They were nice, professional looking, but I wore slacks, so

357
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,840
you didn't know how tall they were or anything.

358
00:16:40,879 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 4: And I walked the sole off of those shoes.

359
00:16:43,519 --> 00:16:46,200
Speaker 5: I had to have them replaced. I did not understand

360
00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,000
the stiletto heels. I think you're asking and there's going

361
00:16:49,039 --> 00:16:51,759
to be people. How your dressed does not indicate, Okay,

362
00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:52,480
you're in prison.

363
00:16:52,559 --> 00:16:55,279
Speaker 1: You're in prison men who ain't been with women in

364
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,039
some of them in twenty years.

365
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:01,480
Speaker 5: Yes, so no, behind prison bars look nice, look professional.

366
00:17:01,799 --> 00:17:08,039
Speaker 4: But there's a difference between you know, looking professionally looking free.

367
00:17:07,759 --> 00:17:09,000
Speaker 1: Looking professional look.

368
00:17:10,079 --> 00:17:12,480
Speaker 5: So yeah, I don't think I knew that I was

369
00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:15,640
pretty that enough that it affected my day in day out.

370
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,359
Speaker 4: I mean, I just was me. I got dressing on

371
00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:17,880
with the work.

372
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:22,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, well luck and these guys are thirsty in there.

373
00:17:22,759 --> 00:17:25,720
Right there, there's wild buck Wilde. Ain't a lot of

374
00:17:25,799 --> 00:17:28,519
minks been around that shit. As a matter of fact,

375
00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:32,920
I've interviewed some former inmates who had spent many years

376
00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,079
behind bars, and one of the things that they said

377
00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:38,559
blew their mind when they got out of prison. One

378
00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:40,440
of the first things ain't notice was a smell of

379
00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,960
a woman. They said, you know, you go with Walmart.

380
00:17:43,279 --> 00:17:45,559
One of them described to me he went in Walmart,

381
00:17:46,079 --> 00:17:48,400
a woman walked past him and she had perfume on.

382
00:17:48,519 --> 00:17:51,799
He said, it blew me away. And he said the

383
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,400
reason it did is because I hadn't smelled perfume in

384
00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:57,519
thirty years. Yeah, and this woman walks by me smelling

385
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,039
so good. I mean, it's a little weird. But but

386
00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,319
for these guys, they aren't used to that, So I

387
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,480
get it. You could have a major problem in prisons

388
00:18:07,519 --> 00:18:10,519
if you're you know, springing on Georgie.

389
00:18:11,039 --> 00:18:16,119
Speaker 5: There's a way to be professional and also firm, firm

390
00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:19,440
but fair, you know, And and looks. My looks should

391
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,119
have no in part on my job. And I you know,

392
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,880
I guess I didn't think of it that way. Yeah,

393
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,119
I just I went to work.

394
00:18:27,279 --> 00:18:30,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get it. Uh, what was the Can you

395
00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:32,720
think of a mistake you made that was like a

396
00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,640
big mistake when you were there, something that looking back

397
00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,880
on it, you're like, wow, I'm lucky that Yeah.

398
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:44,079
Speaker 5: Well no, no, I do remember one time I accidentally

399
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,759
walked in the camp with my cell phone in my pocket.

400
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,880
You're not allowed to bring or then. I don't know

401
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,119
what the rules are now, but the wardens have theirs.

402
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,000
But I mean I should not have had my phone.

403
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,400
And when I tell you, I felt like I had

404
00:18:55,519 --> 00:18:58,200
just committed the biggest a truck.

405
00:18:58,279 --> 00:18:59,160
Speaker 4: I could not wait to get out.

406
00:18:59,200 --> 00:18:59,799
Speaker 1: I turned around.

407
00:18:59,799 --> 00:19:01,440
Speaker 5: Really, I was like, hi, you know, I was like

408
00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:02,839
trying to run to get out of the gates and

409
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,039
go put my phone up.

410
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,559
Speaker 1: That I mean, that's interesting.

411
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:07,359
Speaker 4: Yeah that didn't.

412
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,000
Speaker 5: But I can tell you too that even when you

413
00:19:09,039 --> 00:19:12,920
do everything right, bad things happen. So I tried to

414
00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:15,359
help out. One time there was a woman that worked

415
00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,920
with me, and the inmates had been complaining that she

416
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,519
wasn't making her rounds like she was supposed to. So like,

417
00:19:21,519 --> 00:19:23,720
if you're in a cell block, you know you can't

418
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,000
get out to go get help from classification so classification

419
00:19:27,039 --> 00:19:30,640
does things like helps with your visitation list, or if

420
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,759
you need to add an attorney to your phone list,

421
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:35,960
or a friend or a family, or if they need

422
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:39,279
a special visit. Maybe grandma's dying and they would like

423
00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,200
to see grandma on it and there's not enough time

424
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,160
for them to come on the special or maybe grandma

425
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:46,640
or mom, sister whatever it is from out of state,

426
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,359
and they're only here for these days, and so those

427
00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:51,480
aren't visitation days. But please, can we work something out.

428
00:19:51,519 --> 00:19:53,680
I haven't seen my sister in twenty years, and so

429
00:19:53,839 --> 00:19:56,880
again their inmates. But they're people, and that's my job.

430
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,680
My job is not to judge them behind bars. My

431
00:19:58,759 --> 00:20:00,920
job is to do my job. So there was some

432
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,440
complaints that this woman wasn't making her rounds, and now

433
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,640
that I don't work there, I'll say it's probably true.

434
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:09,279
She was not a very nice woman either, So I said,

435
00:20:09,279 --> 00:20:11,400
you know what I feel like getting out.

436
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:12,480
Speaker 4: It's nice outside.

437
00:20:12,599 --> 00:20:14,640
Speaker 5: I went and made my rounds on my tears that

438
00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:16,480
I was supposed to, and then I decided I would

439
00:20:16,519 --> 00:20:18,960
just go clean up and go make it extra rounds

440
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,599
on her tears for her. So I went in, Hey,

441
00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:24,599
what you need hand? It out paperwork whatever. Well, shortly

442
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,279
after that, I got a lawsuit filed against me and

443
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,920
buy an inmate. It's called an arp and ARAPA administrative

444
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,440
remedy procedure, but they it never made it to QUART

445
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,240
or anything because it was so ludicrous.

446
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I was so young. It stressed me out.

447
00:20:38,759 --> 00:20:41,400
He sued me. He was like for millions of dollars

448
00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:42,720
what because he.

449
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 5: Said that I was not making my rounds consistently and

450
00:20:46,039 --> 00:20:48,319
I only showed up once that month. Well, bitch, the

451
00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:50,000
reason I was down there once that month is I'm

452
00:20:50,039 --> 00:20:53,599
not your damn officer. I was doing extra so things

453
00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:55,359
like that would often.

454
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,160
Speaker 1: And they've got nothing but time, and they called lost

455
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,880
them nothing to file a lawsuit because there are indigent

456
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,799
laws in place that pay for them to file lawsuits.

457
00:21:08,839 --> 00:21:11,319
So they can file one hundred and a month and

458
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,119
they really could care less. It's funny to them that

459
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,519
you would have to take five minutes to actually deal

460
00:21:16,559 --> 00:21:16,759
with it.

461
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:17,519
Speaker 4: Yeah.

462
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 5: Now, if I would have been walking that prison day,

463
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:21,559
I'd be like, cool, lawsuit bro, have a nice day.

464
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, I got to be like, get out of my face.

465
00:21:23,279 --> 00:21:25,920
But yeah, I can't think of any big you know, huge.

466
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: Well, the SELFI thing's interesting. Let me ask you this.

467
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,240
Did you ever meet an inmate and you're thinking, I

468
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:36,519
can't believe this guy's in here. Yes, yeah, a lot

469
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:36,799
of them.

470
00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:37,480
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

471
00:21:37,559 --> 00:21:39,599
Speaker 5: One that sticks out to me and will always stick

472
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,200
out to me he's out now, though, is an inmate

473
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:48,839
named Joseph Greco. And he was so kind and his

474
00:21:49,039 --> 00:21:53,559
kindness did not strike the way other manipulative kindness struck.

475
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,279
I met his mama at the rodeo. Yeah, he had

476
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,640
he made furniture and he was a big guy, skiller

477
00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:02,880
at the time. He had a big must I think

478
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,079
he had a big mustache, just a big guy. And

479
00:22:06,119 --> 00:22:07,799
I remember him saying, oh, he had kind of a

480
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,400
coon ass accent, you know.

481
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,359
Speaker 4: Oh, miss Kelly, I want you to meet my mom.

482
00:22:11,799 --> 00:22:13,359
And I was like, okay, cool, whatever.

483
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 5: So I walk over and there's this little old lady

484
00:22:15,519 --> 00:22:18,720
and my family's Boudreau's. Okay, we got the coon ass

485
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,799
of all up in our family. And she was one too,

486
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:23,200
and she said, oh, can I hug you?

487
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 4: Please? Can I hugg you? Take such good care of

488
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:25,319
my son.

489
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,279
Speaker 5: You just so kind and kind. People don't come along

490
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,240
often like this, and blah blah blah blah, blah, And

491
00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:32,799
it just touched my heart because you know, I didn't

492
00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:34,680
know this lady from Adam, and then I got to

493
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:36,319
meet him, and some people are gonna go, well, oh,

494
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,279
you were kind of close. No, it just so happened

495
00:22:38,279 --> 00:22:40,160
at the rodeo that the family gets to be there,

496
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,119
and he got locked up before his daughter was even born.

497
00:22:43,559 --> 00:22:45,440
And I got to meet his daughter that day too,

498
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,119
and she was an adult and pregnant with her grandbaby

499
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:53,079
or with his grandbaby yea. And so he I don't

500
00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:54,920
know the true story one hundred percent. I'd have to

501
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,799
go look it up. From what I understand, I think

502
00:22:56,799 --> 00:23:00,160
he got in a bar fight and killed somebody. And

503
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,799
the Joe Greco I knew was calm. He was older though,

504
00:23:04,839 --> 00:23:06,440
think about it, he'd been down a long time.

505
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 1: Yeah.

506
00:23:07,319 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 5: You know now looking back on it, it's like him

507
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:12,200
being me now, yeah, versus when I was twenty.

508
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:13,759
Speaker 4: You're a different person.

509
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:17,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, some people are, one hundred percent. I mean you,

510
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,039
even your hardest people. You know, you're different at forty

511
00:23:22,039 --> 00:23:23,039
than you were at twenty.

512
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,440
Speaker 4: But I'll tell you too, I met.

513
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:25,839
Speaker 1: Sixty than you were at forty.

514
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,559
Speaker 4: I met some at sixty who had the same mentality

515
00:23:28,799 --> 00:23:30,799
that they did when they were twenty, and it was

516
00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,039
like arrested development. I'm like, what the fuck are you doing?

517
00:23:33,079 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 2: Bro?

518
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,240
Speaker 5: Like you're sixty years old and I'm having a discipline.

519
00:23:35,319 --> 00:23:36,079
You get your life to go?

520
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, good point. Well, at some point you decide to leave,

521
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,319
and Gola tell me about that. What made that decision?

522
00:23:46,559 --> 00:23:48,319
Speaker 5: So it was a hard one because I really liked

523
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,599
my job. I loved my job. But I got a

524
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:52,720
phone call randomly. I was outside of Main Prison eating

525
00:23:52,759 --> 00:23:54,880
lunch in my car and I got a phone call

526
00:23:55,079 --> 00:23:59,599
from someone or a message to call someone in Livingston

527
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,000
Parish from the school board, and I was like.

528
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 4: What in the hell?

529
00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 5: So I called, and they were looking for somebody that

530
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,440
would be interested in starting a pilot program out in

531
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:10,680
Livingston Paris. They wanted to do a criminal justice program,

532
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,960
and so they had called Angola to ask did they

533
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,480
have anybody, but they needed someone who had a master's degree. Well,

534
00:24:16,559 --> 00:24:19,000
I think I was the only at that time. I

535
00:24:19,079 --> 00:24:24,119
was the only non I guess administrative level person that

536
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,400
had one. And so they took the number and sent

537
00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,720
it to me and I called, and it just so happened.

538
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 4: I lived in Livingston Parish.

539
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 5: I was making a hell of a commute every day,

540
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:35,960
A long commute. That's how much I liked to my

541
00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:39,440
job though. I'll tell you something. I loved it, and

542
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:41,319
so I just made the hard decision that that's what

543
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:42,880
I was going to do. Was closer to my house,

544
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,759
it was a better fit. And don't you know that

545
00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:46,880
lasted seventeen years.

546
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: I ain't that something, And you know it's important to

547
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,480
mention during your I guess ten year at Louisiana State

548
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,359
Benetton Tree also helped do the tours.

549
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:58,559
Speaker 4: Yes, I did.

550
00:24:59,039 --> 00:25:01,440
Speaker 1: People that would come in then at one point. And

551
00:25:01,559 --> 00:25:02,519
how was that? You liked that?

552
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:03,039
Speaker 4: I loved it.

553
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 1: Loved it.

554
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 5: Obviously I like talking on this on podcast, So telling

555
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,880
the stories and all of that was just so exciting

556
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:09,200
to me.

557
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,079
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Were they any any escapes or anything while

558
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,480
you were there that you can recall?

559
00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: Not?

560
00:25:16,039 --> 00:25:17,519
Speaker 4: While I was working there.

561
00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 5: There was an escape while I was on a field

562
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:23,359
trip with students there, and they promptly kicked our ass out.

563
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 1: I remember you telling me, Yeah.

564
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:26,599
Speaker 4: That was crazy.

565
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:28,839
Speaker 5: He was a road walker, was his job, and so

566
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,400
basically he walked, you know again, eighteen thousand acres he

567
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:33,960
walked the roads, picked up trash whatever, and he just

568
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,160
walked away. He never made it for count and they

569
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,519
found him like a day or two later, laid up

570
00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:41,319
in the late It been a like a creek bed

571
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:42,640
or a or a ditch or whatever.

572
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:44,839
Speaker 1: And who was your warden when you were there?

573
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,079
Speaker 4: The main warden cap it was Warden Kane.

574
00:25:47,759 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: Wow, probably the most famous of all.

575
00:25:49,799 --> 00:25:51,599
Speaker 5: I liked Warden Kane. I thought he was cool dude.

576
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,839
And uh, he wrote a book called Caine's Redemption. I

577
00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:56,559
used to teach out of it in my class. He's

578
00:25:56,599 --> 00:26:01,160
the only warden that had ever seen the electric chair.

579
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,799
He may have seen a hanging an electric chair, and

580
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,240
you're like, what, he didn't see a hanging.

581
00:26:08,319 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 4: It was something about when he was young. I don't remember.

582
00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:11,519
Speaker 5: But he was the only one that had seen the

583
00:26:11,559 --> 00:26:14,160
electric chair and multiple types of executions.

584
00:26:14,319 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and very heavily credited with bringing religion

585
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,039
to the forefront of Louisiana State Penitentiary, which then in

586
00:26:24,079 --> 00:26:29,279
turn changed a lot of the culture inside of that prison.

587
00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,599
A lot of that credited towards Burl Caine and the

588
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,279
things that he did. Of course, we've done a podcast.

589
00:26:36,319 --> 00:26:39,279
We've got a three part episode way back there somewhere

590
00:26:39,319 --> 00:26:44,039
with all about Burl Caine and his contribution to that prison.

591
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 5: And they send a thing out one day and we're

592
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,480
like to come to the main chapel, Main Prison Chapel

593
00:26:48,519 --> 00:26:49,960
at three o'clock for a treat or something like that.

594
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 4: And I was like, well, let me go check that out.

595
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:53,400
And it was Aaron Neville. Oh yes, I got to

596
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,319
hear eron Nevill sing.

597
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:54,519
Speaker 2: Oh.

598
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:57,119
Speaker 1: I did the I did an episode on him and

599
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,160
the Neville Brothers when they did a concert there. Did

600
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,359
a whole episode on that somewhere back in back in

601
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,640
the archives if you will.

602
00:27:04,799 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 4: That was cool. You know, you don't expect that.

603
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

604
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 5: But also if people know the Ski Mask Rapist, which

605
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,680
was a big ski mask raper, he was an issue

606
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:14,599
for me because I was working. They moved me to

607
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:16,480
Camp Ja, which is no longer a thing, but that

608
00:27:16,559 --> 00:27:19,960
was like the worst camp. It's like the lockdown, bad bad, bad,

609
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,119
bad bad stuff there, and they moved me there. I

610
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,720
think only worked there two days, three days. But the

611
00:27:24,799 --> 00:27:28,920
ski Mask Rapist they said he was being seen too

612
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,599
frequently in my shadow basically like as I was walking,

613
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,440
and so they were like, yeah, they were like, we're

614
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:34,880
moving you.

615
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 4: I said, Okay, so I got moved back.

616
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,559
Speaker 1: An interesting thing I've done an episode on him. And

617
00:27:39,799 --> 00:27:42,160
interesting thing about him is he was kind of a player.

618
00:27:42,599 --> 00:27:44,480
He was kind of a you know, he was not

619
00:27:44,599 --> 00:27:47,680
an uh. He was a good looking guy for sche

620
00:27:47,799 --> 00:27:48,440
mask rapists.

621
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 4: I never I don't remember.

622
00:27:49,799 --> 00:27:52,599
Speaker 1: I don't know how to say it, but well, he

623
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,440
was a reputation very charming guy and someone that liked

624
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,839
to drive flashy cars when he was on the loose.

625
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,279
So go back and listen to that facts if you,

626
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,880
if you get the opportunity. I got one last question

627
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,839
for you. So you mentioned that you ate lunch in

628
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,599
your car, but did you ever was that your thing?

629
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:15,440
Or did you ever eat in the cafeteria that the

630
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,599
prisoners cooked the feed?

631
00:28:17,279 --> 00:28:19,640
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, oh yeah, I mean I just happened to

632
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,119
be in my car because I was doing something.

633
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,559
Speaker 4: I didn't go out to my CARDI lunch, but they

634
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,000
but they also used to have a place you could

635
00:28:25,039 --> 00:28:25,359
go eat.

636
00:28:25,319 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 5: Lunch there that was cooked by free people too, at

637
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,119
the when they had the.

638
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 4: Golf course there.

639
00:28:31,519 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 5: But yes, I did eat the food from the camp

640
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,359
so at Camp D when I was there, they always

641
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,119
had chocolate chip cookies and then every now and then

642
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,200
they had these crab cakes. I know that sounds crazy,

643
00:28:42,279 --> 00:28:44,960
but they did, and I freaking I know right, I

644
00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:48,119
freaking loved it. And so I would call the I'd

645
00:28:48,119 --> 00:28:49,720
call down there and I'd be like, hey, get me

646
00:28:49,759 --> 00:28:52,000
a tray, and they say, what you want? I almost

647
00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:54,400
some cookies and I want some crab cakes. And they'd

648
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,319
be like, you got it. And I'd be sitting there

649
00:28:56,319 --> 00:28:58,119
like a little fat ass cookies.

650
00:28:57,759 --> 00:28:59,759
Speaker 1: And crab And I was going to ask you what

651
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:04,000
your favorite meal to get? Well, you answered that I

652
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:04,359
can tell you.

653
00:29:04,599 --> 00:29:06,319
Speaker 5: I can tell you this too, that them boys could

654
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:09,079
cook those greens. Now, I'm telling you, and I did.

655
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:10,279
I never liked greens, but.

656
00:29:10,279 --> 00:29:12,599
Speaker 1: I turned right there and yeah.

657
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so I'm not gonna lie. I mean, I

658
00:29:15,319 --> 00:29:16,759
ain't scared. I'll try me some food.

659
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:18,559
Speaker 5: Look, one time, one time I went in in the

660
00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:22,400
in the cafeteria and so you know my personalities, I'm

661
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,319
a goober whatever. And so I walk in there and

662
00:29:24,359 --> 00:29:27,119
I can hear them singing. The inmates are cooking. I

663
00:29:27,119 --> 00:29:29,319
can hear them singing some old blues or something in.

664
00:29:29,319 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: The in the back. And I was like, hey, hey,

665
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,839
y'all know who sings that?

666
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,359
Speaker 5: And they were like, oh yeah, man, yeah, and they

667
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,000
turned into like punching each other, like what what was

668
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:37,279
his name?

669
00:29:37,319 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 4: What was his name?

670
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,559
Speaker 5: And they go back and forth and I'm just sitting

671
00:29:39,599 --> 00:29:41,440
there waiting and then he said the dame and I said, yeah, well,

672
00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:43,599
let's let him do it. And I was just and

673
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,400
thens were like they started like ragging on the guy,

674
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,319
and I'm looking back on I probably would have don those.

675
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for coming on. I just

676
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,319
want to you know, people are really intrigued about life

677
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,799
inside of that prison, not only from the the eight standpoint,

678
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,440
but people that have worked there at some point in

679
00:30:03,519 --> 00:30:06,160
their lives. And we've had several people on. Thank you

680
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,680
for coming on sharing some of your experience. Everyone. Check

681
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,160
out Unspeakable with True Crime podcast by Kelly Jennings. If

682
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,240
you have not had the pleasure to do so, you

683
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,680
can find out wherever you listen to podcasts, just search

684
00:30:18,839 --> 00:30:25,079
Unspeakable Kelly Jennings. And until next time for Bloody and Gola,

685
00:30:25,319 --> 00:30:28,640
I'm your host, Jim Chapman, a podcast one hundred and

686
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,920
forty two years of making the complete story of America's

687
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:33,960
bloodiest prison, Peace.

688
00:30:50,319 --> 00:31:02,079
Speaker 2: A Wall Street line, Shackle Chain. It's calling by name.

689
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:11,039
There is no mercy, and it's been a tentery Jess,

690
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:15,920
as the Hillstream game rangold three.

691
00:31:17,519 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 3: I'm in be by me to die inside these walls,

692
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:31,119
inside the wise, And.

693
00:31:31,359 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 1: When nose I know it's so.

694
00:31:41,039 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 2: Bloody.

695
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 3: Anglebody, angle

696
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:01,839
Speaker 1: And b