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<v Speaker 1>All right, Hi, this is William Ramsey. Welcome to William

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<v Speaker 1>Ramsey Investigates on today's show. I'm a very special guest,

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<v Speaker 1>a returning guest. We spoke back in August about his

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<v Speaker 1>book titled Crime Quick and Easy Ways to Avoid Becoming

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<v Speaker 1>a Victim. His name is Robert L. Brian. But today

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about another book. The title of

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<v Speaker 1>that book is Sea Case, An Unlikely Journey from transit

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<v Speaker 1>cop to Internal Affairs Bureau squad Commander. And again the

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<v Speaker 1>author's name is Robert L. Brian. Really interesting book traces

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<v Speaker 1>his career and some of the really interesting things he

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<v Speaker 1>did for the IAB or the Internal Affairs Bureaus. So

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<v Speaker 1>I'm delighted to have them back. So Robert Brian, welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the show.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you very good? Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 1>Aweimer, thanks for returning. For people who may not have

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<v Speaker 1>heard our earlier interview. Can you talk kind of a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about your career and what led you to

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<v Speaker 1>write this book Sea Case.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I've spent my entire adult life in law enforcement

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<v Speaker 2>and security. I had started off after leaving college. After

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<v Speaker 2>graduating college, I spent a couple of years on the

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<v Speaker 2>Mexican Border as a Border patrol agent. And then I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a lifelong New Yorker, so that was the only time

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<v Speaker 2>I was out of New York City. And when I returned,

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<v Speaker 2>I joined the New York City Transit Police Department. I

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<v Speaker 2>did twenty years there, retiring at the rank of captain.

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<v Speaker 2>And it's during the time after I become a lieutenant

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<v Speaker 2>is when I went into two years with the Internal

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<v Speaker 2>Affairs Bureau.

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<v Speaker 1>Gotcha, and they kind of had this assignment where they

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<v Speaker 1>make you become an IAB member, right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was that was an interesting thing at the

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<v Speaker 2>time because this was right after. As I said, I

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<v Speaker 2>was a member of the New York City Transit Police.

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<v Speaker 2>New York City for most of the twentieth century, before

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<v Speaker 2>until when the other departments began to exist, had three

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<v Speaker 2>separate police departments. You always had since the middle of

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<v Speaker 2>the eighteen hundreds had the New York City Police Department.

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<v Speaker 2>But in the nineteen thirties and then shortly thereafter, the

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<v Speaker 2>New York City Transit Police and the New York City

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<v Speaker 2>Housing Police came into existence. So Transit dealt with policing

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<v Speaker 2>the subways, while housing was the New York City housing projects.

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<v Speaker 2>So in nineteen ninety five, however, there was a merger

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<v Speaker 2>which brought all three departments together under the New York

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<v Speaker 2>City Police Department. So in nineteen ninety five when its

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<v Speaker 2>merger occurred, I was a lieutenant. So at that time

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<v Speaker 2>I was working in what became a patrol command in

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<v Speaker 2>the Transit Bureau, and I had learned that the New

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<v Speaker 2>York City Police Department had a career path or sergeant's lieutenants,

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<v Speaker 2>where you would apply for an investigative position. With the

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<v Speaker 2>caveat that was known, I went into this with my

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<v Speaker 2>eyes wide open. This wasn't a surprise, was that anybody

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<v Speaker 2>who was accepted into this, Before you could get into

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<v Speaker 2>either the Organized Crime Control Bureau or the Detective Bureau,

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<v Speaker 2>you would have to do two years drafted into the

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<v Speaker 2>Internal Affairs Bureau.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So had you had to go into the separate

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<v Speaker 1>bureau that investigates the other police. Can you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>what it was like just beginning in that. I think

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<v Speaker 1>you went in as a in an authoritative position, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you had to kind of manage other people who were

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<v Speaker 1>already there.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, when it is a lieutenant and the basic

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<v Speaker 2>the basic formation of an IAB group, they're called groups.

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<v Speaker 2>I was in Group twenty seven. Is there are several

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<v Speaker 2>teams of investigators that are headed by a lieutenant who's

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<v Speaker 2>the commander of that squad. So when I went in

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<v Speaker 2>as a lieutenant, I became the commander of one of

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<v Speaker 2>the squads within Group twenty seven. And it was something

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<v Speaker 2>that was very, very challenging because I was coming from

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<v Speaker 2>Not only was I coming from just several months earlier

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<v Speaker 2>being with the Transit Police Department, but my time had

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<v Speaker 2>been on patrol, and I had done some time as

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<v Speaker 2>a police Academy instructor also, but I really had no

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<v Speaker 2>real investigative background, and now I was thrown into a

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<v Speaker 2>position where I was managing a squad of seasoned sergeants

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<v Speaker 2>and detectives who had worked many years in detective squads,

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<v Speaker 2>in an arcotics division, in organized crime control. So that

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<v Speaker 2>was a very challenging assignment.

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<v Speaker 1>So they had all these experiences. So some of these

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<v Speaker 1>other people were not on the same career path as you, right,

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<v Speaker 1>they came from other departments or got assigned there from

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<v Speaker 1>other places.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that corupt Well no, pretty much everybody got a

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<v Speaker 2>sign in the same way. But like, for instance, the

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<v Speaker 2>sergeants that I had in my squad. One of them

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<v Speaker 2>had been a detective in what's known as OCID, the

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<v Speaker 2>Organized Crime Investigation Division, which is it's an elite investigative unit. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>when he made sergeant, he is, you know, not going

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<v Speaker 2>back to OCID. He's going out on patrol and he

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<v Speaker 2>has to let anybody else he has to put in

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<v Speaker 2>now for this career path as a sergeant or lieutenant.

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<v Speaker 2>So when he gets selected, he has to do his

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<v Speaker 2>two years and ieb just like anybody else. So the

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<v Speaker 2>thing was, though, I was kind of unique in that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of other people that were going through their

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<v Speaker 2>two years were coming with a background as detectives before

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<v Speaker 2>they got promoted to sergeant.

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<v Speaker 1>I see, so you had done the transit and they

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<v Speaker 1>had come from a different kind of angle. But I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>you've talked to some of these other guys that were

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<v Speaker 1>very experienced interrogators and actives, and so you kind of

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<v Speaker 1>had to make you could basically kind of were thrown

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<v Speaker 1>into it like sinker swim right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that's where I had to write from the start,

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<v Speaker 2>I had to make a decision that if this was

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<v Speaker 2>going to work for me, I certainly couldn't go in

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<v Speaker 2>there and try to fake that. I, you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>knew it all because I knew very little and especially

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<v Speaker 2>compared with the knowledge that was in my team, And

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<v Speaker 2>so I tried to manage the actual logistics of the unit,

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<v Speaker 2>the case assignments, keeping up with you know, how a

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<v Speaker 2>case was going, and assignments and closing cases, while I

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<v Speaker 2>learned from them actually how to run an investigation.

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<v Speaker 1>So you had to do that. And I think you said,

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<v Speaker 1>like each person in your twenty of the squad had

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<v Speaker 1>almost twenty five files that were working on concurret the

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<v Speaker 1>Can you talk about what it was like kind of

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<v Speaker 1>juggling all those different investigations and then working within the group.

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<v Speaker 2>I liked to Maya, my first commanding officer of the group,

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<v Speaker 2>the way he put it in the way that I

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<v Speaker 2>thought about it, because this kind of re you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I kind of grabbed onto this and said it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>He said, this case manage him and is like a

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<v Speaker 2>murray go round. He said, when when cases come in,

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<v Speaker 2>they get assigned, they get thrown onto the murray go round,

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<v Speaker 2>and now your job is to try to pull them

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<v Speaker 2>off the murray go around as quickly as you can

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<v Speaker 2>thoroughly investigate him. But don't keep them on that Murray

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<v Speaker 2>go round for any any minute longer than they have

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<v Speaker 2>to be right.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think you said that when you came in,

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<v Speaker 1>you assigned somebody a case, and he said you should

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<v Speaker 1>take this case because this will give you as some experience. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. The first case that I went out on that

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<v Speaker 2>I was with was that was one of the more

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<v Speaker 2>interesting ones because it actually and again I had to

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<v Speaker 2>learn this also that many times there were cases that

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<v Speaker 2>when you started getting used to it, that you just

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<v Speaker 2>kind of knew by the allegation you had to be

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<v Speaker 2>objective with it, but you kind of knew that it

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<v Speaker 2>was going to go no place either either it was

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<v Speaker 2>obvious that there was nothing there, or even if there

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<v Speaker 2>was something there, there was no way you were going

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<v Speaker 2>to be able to prove it one way or the other.

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<v Speaker 2>But sometimes, like with this first case, there was a

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<v Speaker 2>live complainant. There was a gentleman who was an account accountant,

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<v Speaker 2>and he sounded very credible on the phone, and when

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<v Speaker 2>I was interviewing him on the phone, his allegation was

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<v Speaker 2>that there was a NYPD sergeant who had broken into

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<v Speaker 2>his apartment and was stealing possessions property out of his

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<v Speaker 2>apartment that he had done this on more than one occasion.

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<v Speaker 2>Now that's a very bizarre allegation to begin with, but

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<v Speaker 2>he sounded very credible. And it even became more bizarre

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<v Speaker 2>are when I went with a sergeant to interview him

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<v Speaker 2>and he was in a high rise apartment building in Queens.

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<v Speaker 2>It was it was a nice building, a nice building,

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<v Speaker 2>and he was up on one of the like i'll say,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe the fifteen sixteenth or one of the higher flaws.

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<v Speaker 2>And when he led us in again, everything was making sense.

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<v Speaker 2>As far as he was articulate, he was lucid, He

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<v Speaker 2>you know, was very you know, by the numbers and

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<v Speaker 2>talking about what had happened. But as I'm talking to him,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm trying to figure out because it looks like

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<v Speaker 2>this is an apartment, there's only the front door to

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<v Speaker 2>get into the apartment, and there's a balcony, and the

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<v Speaker 2>balcony is fifteen floors up, and I can't grasp how

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<v Speaker 2>this sergeant would be getting in if he wasn't coming

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<v Speaker 2>through the door. So I finally get around to really

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<v Speaker 2>pressing them on. I said, sir, I'm not really grasping

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<v Speaker 2>this if he's not coming in through the door. I said,

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<v Speaker 2>he's coming into that fifteenth floor balcony here, and he just,

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<v Speaker 2>matter of fact he says no. And I said, you're

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<v Speaker 2>really losing me here. If he's not coming into the door,

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<v Speaker 2>he's not coming in through the through the balcony, how

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<v Speaker 2>is he getting in here? And he just very matter

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<v Speaker 2>of factly said, oh no, he comes in my dreams.

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<v Speaker 2>And at that point I was said, okay, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>let's wrap this up. But my partner at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>the sergeant, he was going to begin now because he

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to have some fun with this as far as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, asking him what does he do, what does

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<v Speaker 2>he say? And uh, And the guy was very seriously

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<v Speaker 2>answering all these questions, you know, he h oh, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>He sometimes he curses at me. Sometimes he says, I

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<v Speaker 2>see your underwear, and so it just you know, that's

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<v Speaker 2>that was the opening case where I realized that, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>not everything here is going to be a crime of

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<v Speaker 2>the century, and probably, like most of them, was gonna

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<v Speaker 2>end up being nothing right.

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean, you're kind of in that thing where

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<v Speaker 1>you're in to getting the other police officers, what is

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<v Speaker 1>the opinion of the internal affairs while you were there

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<v Speaker 1>amongst you know, the blue line or so to speak.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's why, that's why, in my opinion, that the

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<v Speaker 2>MYP went to this draft system for for sergeants and

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<v Speaker 2>lieutenants because you know, naturally i AB is not a

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<v Speaker 2>very popular assignment, not a very popular unit within the

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<v Speaker 2>police department because you know, whether it's in police culture

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<v Speaker 2>or any other culture. I mean, let's face it, one

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<v Speaker 2>of the worst things you can be perceived as is

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<v Speaker 2>a rat. And you know, of course, if you have

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<v Speaker 2>any type of logical thought process, you have to understand

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<v Speaker 2>that any police department, especially a department as large as

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<v Speaker 2>the m YPD, needs some kind of an internal investigation

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<v Speaker 2>branch too, because any time, I mean, I'm I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>big fan of cops. I you know, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>there's a more noble profession on the planet. But if

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<v Speaker 2>you put at the time there was forty thousand people

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<v Speaker 2>in the MYPD, you put forty thousand apples in any

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<v Speaker 2>in barrels, you're going to find a whole bunch of

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<v Speaker 2>rotten ones, certainly not going to be near the majority.

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<v Speaker 2>Same thing. The you know, probably well over ninety five

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<v Speaker 2>ninety eight percent of cops are hard working doing the

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<v Speaker 2>right thing. But you do have the police departments in

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<v Speaker 2>microcosm of society, you know, so just like you have murderers,

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<v Speaker 2>drug abusers, drug sellers, uh, you know, domestic abusers in society,

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<v Speaker 2>you're going to find them in a department with forty

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<v Speaker 2>thousand people. So but still there wasn't will always be

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<v Speaker 2>a stigma attached to working internal affairs. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that draft system helped to fight that stigma a bit

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<v Speaker 2>because you know, people realized after a while that when

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<v Speaker 2>you were in IAB, you were going through that two

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<v Speaker 2>year draft.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, so you weren't in a position of total antagonism.

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<v Speaker 1>You're in a short short you know, kind of doing

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<v Speaker 1>your duty in getting out. And you I mean you

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<v Speaker 1>had so many different cases too, like you had the

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<v Speaker 1>full Swath or a murder, to insurance fraud to criminality

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<v Speaker 1>shot shoplifty. Can you talk about that? I mean one

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<v Speaker 1>of the introductory chapters is the guy who had some

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<v Speaker 1>kind of interesting insurance claims. Can you talk about like

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<v Speaker 1>some of your investigations that one in particular.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that one, you know, and these when I said

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<v Speaker 2>before that I spoke to the claimant on the phone.

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<v Speaker 2>We're not just answering phones that some somebody's got a

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<v Speaker 2>number and calls in a complaint. Everything in IB works

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<v Speaker 2>through what's called the Action desk. Whether it comes in

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<v Speaker 2>because a police officer in the field is given the

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<v Speaker 2>allegation from a member of the public and he or

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<v Speaker 2>she reports it, whether it whether it comes from a

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<v Speaker 2>letter to the Police Commission, however the complaint comes in,

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<v Speaker 2>it works its way to the Action Desk, which was

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<v Speaker 2>a unit in IB headquarters. Then they assess it, They

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<v Speaker 2>assess what the complaint is, and then they send it

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<v Speaker 2>out as they seem appropriate, whether it as they deem appropriate,

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<v Speaker 2>whether it should be sent out as which is the

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<v Speaker 2>title of the book, as a c case, which is

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<v Speaker 2>a corruption case, which is the you know, the bread

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<v Speaker 2>and butter of ID investigations. That's something which if it

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<v Speaker 2>was proven, could be a crime or would be a crime.

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<v Speaker 2>There were less serious ones that were m cases, some

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<v Speaker 2>type of misconduct. There could be complaints from other departments,

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<v Speaker 2>other city agencies that were they never just told, never

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<v Speaker 2>told the complaint, we don't take this. They always took

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<v Speaker 2>the complaint and referred it as necessary. But in this case,

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<v Speaker 2>the the they call them a log. We'd get logs

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<v Speaker 2>that would come in say you know uh C number

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<v Speaker 2>C one four, five to eight, and it says gives

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<v Speaker 2>the information on it. And in this case, there was

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<v Speaker 2>an insurance investigator had called made a complaint to actually

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<v Speaker 2>to i AB direct that this police officer had made

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<v Speaker 2>a really absurd insurance claim. And when you looked into it,

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<v Speaker 2>it really was because it ended up the uh it

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<v Speaker 2>started off with was a fender bender, and all the

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<v Speaker 2>documentation it was an off duty fender bender, by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>and all the documentation from the accident report, and it

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<v Speaker 2>was in Narsau County, not New York City. Everything was

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<v Speaker 2>reflective as an actual just offender vender somebody. It really

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<v Speaker 2>was an accident. This elderly gentleman had just kind of

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<v Speaker 2>rolled into the subject at a when he was stopped

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<v Speaker 2>at a light, and he just rolled into him at

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<v Speaker 2>like maybe two miles an hour. But he must have

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<v Speaker 2>seen some had an opportunity here, and he he went

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<v Speaker 2>to the He didn't go to the hospital with ambulance.

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<v Speaker 2>He ended up going by himself. And when they tried

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<v Speaker 2>to kind of throw him out after they said, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll treat you here, but there's nothing wrong with you.

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<v Speaker 2>He then stayed in the waiting room all night. This

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<v Speaker 2>is I got this from interviewing a nurse and emergency

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<v Speaker 2>room nurse. So because he wanted to be able to say,

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<v Speaker 2>he spent the night in the hospital, and then he

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<v Speaker 2>went and with his insurance company, he put in this

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<v Speaker 2>claim that just went on and on that he had

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<v Speaker 2>in the accident, he had broken he was wearing some

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<v Speaker 2>collectible Superman watch that was worth a lot of money,

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<v Speaker 2>he had some rare tea set from Japan, and the

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<v Speaker 2>trunk even when as far as they had a leg

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<v Speaker 2>of lamb that got destroyed that was in the car.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a whole long list. And that was just

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<v Speaker 2>the beginning. Because then he put in a claim that

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<v Speaker 2>he because of his back being injured, he had to

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<v Speaker 2>get permanent in the wall air conditioning unit put in

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<v Speaker 2>his house because he could no longer play take them

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<v Speaker 2>in and out of the window. He needed to get

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00:17:05.720 --> 00:17:09.759
<v Speaker 2>a gardening landscaping services. He couldn't do it himself. He

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00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:12.519
<v Speaker 2>had to get a home health aid to bathe them

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<v Speaker 2>several times a week. And the kude g raw was

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00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.680
<v Speaker 2>that he had claimed and was what was the most

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00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:24.559
<v Speaker 2>monetary damages he was he was or compensation. He was

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00:17:24.599 --> 00:17:27.359
<v Speaker 2>seeking was because he said that he could no longer

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<v Speaker 2>perform sexually, and he had a notarized statement from his

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<v Speaker 2>fiance attesting to that. But then as you as you

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00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.160
<v Speaker 2>just start covering bases on how to handle things, you

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00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.000
<v Speaker 2>start names that are involved in it. You start you're

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00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:46.720
<v Speaker 2>running those names to see if they come up anywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>And two of the names showed up as police department employees.

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<v Speaker 2>The person that he had listed as the home health

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00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:57.759
<v Speaker 2>aid and the person he had listed as his fiance.

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<v Speaker 2>They both, you know, miraculously, both of them also worked

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00:18:04.000 --> 00:18:06.839
<v Speaker 2>in the same unit that he worked in. And it

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00:18:06.880 --> 00:18:10.960
<v Speaker 2>didn't take too long to determine that the home health

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<v Speaker 2>aid who really did have this is why he probably

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00:18:13.680 --> 00:18:15.720
<v Speaker 2>did it. She really did have a New York State

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00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:19.359
<v Speaker 2>home health aid license, but she hadn't gone and done

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<v Speaker 2>any kind of spongebaiting form. He had just she she

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00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:25.480
<v Speaker 2>gave a statement that said that he had just said,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, there's some money in it for you if

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<v Speaker 2>you just say that, you know, a couple of times

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<v Speaker 2>a week, you do have to perform this for me.

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<v Speaker 2>And it turned out that the fiance was not a fiance,

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<v Speaker 2>It was just somebody that worked in the same office

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<v Speaker 2>and the same thing. He had told her, Look, I'll

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00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:45.400
<v Speaker 2>give you X amount of dollars if you say that

325
00:18:45.480 --> 00:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>we were engaged and that I can't perform anymore. And

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<v Speaker 2>they both folded very very quickly. We did what is

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00:18:54.000 --> 00:18:59.160
<v Speaker 2>called in the investigative jog and has offered them clean

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00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.920
<v Speaker 2>for a day. Picked him up on the street and

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<v Speaker 2>just said, look, you don't have to come with us,

330
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<v Speaker 2>you don't have to talk with us, but it'll be

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<v Speaker 2>in your best interest and this is a one time deal.

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<v Speaker 2>If you do not talk to us now, you're not

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<v Speaker 2>going to get this opportunity again. And they both talked,

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00:19:17.559 --> 00:19:21.400
<v Speaker 2>and they both threw him under the bus really really quickly.

335
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<v Speaker 1>And then he was yeah, he was a homosexual too, so.

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<v Speaker 2>Like yes, So the whole idea this was a female

337
00:19:27.640 --> 00:19:29.839
<v Speaker 2>that you know, he was saying, was the That was

338
00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:33.599
<v Speaker 2>the first thing she did. She left and she said, fiance,

339
00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:34.960
<v Speaker 2>he's he's gay.

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<v Speaker 1>And so what I mean in your book you kind

341
00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.160
<v Speaker 1>of show what the outcomes are. So in some of

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00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:45.480
<v Speaker 1>these cases, the DA doesn't always prosecute, but there are

343
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<v Speaker 1>administrative steps that are taken.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, there's really two there's two steps in these

345
00:19:51.960 --> 00:19:56.359
<v Speaker 2>processes that could be criminal, you go to within the

346
00:19:56.400 --> 00:19:59.599
<v Speaker 2>District Attorney's office, and in this case in Queens, there's

347
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:04.839
<v Speaker 2>a publicly called a Public Integrity Department. They're the ones

348
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:07.720
<v Speaker 2>that actually work on cases that have anything to do

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00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:11.000
<v Speaker 2>with whether it's prosecuting a police officer or any other

350
00:20:11.160 --> 00:20:14.279
<v Speaker 2>type of a of a government worker. So you always

351
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.599
<v Speaker 2>have to go through them and keep them abreast and

352
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:20.240
<v Speaker 2>then when you finally get because you can't move administratively

353
00:20:20.480 --> 00:20:23.960
<v Speaker 2>if there could possibly be a criminal aspect of it,

354
00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:26.440
<v Speaker 2>you can't do those at the same time. So what

355
00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:30.279
<v Speaker 2>happens is once if there could be criminal you go

356
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:33.720
<v Speaker 2>there first, and once the DA makes a decision. In

357
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<v Speaker 2>this case, for whatever reason, the DA decided now we

358
00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:38.839
<v Speaker 2>don't want this, We're not going to do it, then

359
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:43.480
<v Speaker 2>we go departmentally, and departmentally he got fired, which is

360
00:20:43.680 --> 00:20:47.279
<v Speaker 2>which is not an easy thing in in the police department.

361
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:49.880
<v Speaker 2>You have to you have to do something pretty heavy

362
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<v Speaker 2>to actually lose your job.

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<v Speaker 1>He got fired, right because there's other things you said,

364
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<v Speaker 1>like there's administer, there's misdemeanor m cases or other things

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00:20:58.799 --> 00:21:02.039
<v Speaker 1>were the police could take other steps, right, So not

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00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:07.200
<v Speaker 1>necessarily environment So unfortunately for him, he crossed that line.

367
00:21:07.319 --> 00:21:09.200
<v Speaker 1>And you had other cases. You talk about the one

368
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<v Speaker 1>guy who's a police officer who was had some suspicious

369
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<v Speaker 1>connections to a chop shop. Can you kind of explain

370
00:21:16.880 --> 00:21:18.440
<v Speaker 1>what that is and what he did and why you

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<v Speaker 1>investigated him.

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00:21:19.839 --> 00:21:23.559
<v Speaker 2>Okay, The allegation that came in was that this particular

373
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<v Speaker 2>police officer had ties with an auto body shop that

374
00:21:29.279 --> 00:21:33.640
<v Speaker 2>had organized crime connections and it was in looking at

375
00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:38.000
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't known chop shop that it had several complaints

376
00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.559
<v Speaker 2>in auto crime. Now, a chop shop is a on

377
00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.079
<v Speaker 2>face value, it's in autobody shop, but in reality it's

378
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:51.759
<v Speaker 2>actually taking in stolen cars, chopping them up for parts,

379
00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:54.440
<v Speaker 2>and then they're getting rid of the parts and it

380
00:21:54.519 --> 00:21:57.319
<v Speaker 2>makes it appear as if the car never existed and

381
00:21:57.359 --> 00:22:00.400
<v Speaker 2>they have some kind of an avenue to actually dispose

382
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:03.839
<v Speaker 2>of or sell these parts, you know in the black

383
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.160
<v Speaker 2>market of auto parts.

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<v Speaker 1>And some of those parts are super expensive. They need

385
00:22:08.480 --> 00:22:12.920
<v Speaker 1>some care. They were just taking rear view mirrors from

386
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:16.079
<v Speaker 1>Mercedes Benzes, and each one of those mirrors is like

387
00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:19.920
<v Speaker 1>on the street, my value was like crazy three hundred

388
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>and fifty bucks or something like that.

389
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:24.960
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, in my area right now, I don't know

390
00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:27.920
<v Speaker 2>if there's just nationwide or just New York wise, there's

391
00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:31.279
<v Speaker 2>a big thing now with catalytic converters getting taken out

392
00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:36.119
<v Speaker 2>of cars. You know, it's always going to be the

393
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:38.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, the auto parts industry is always going to

394
00:22:38.839 --> 00:22:42.119
<v Speaker 2>have this criminal aspect to it. But in this case,

395
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:44.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's one of these things where you kind

396
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:45.599
<v Speaker 2>of hope you can get this off the murray go

397
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:49.200
<v Speaker 2>around quickly, and because it's very vague as far as

398
00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.599
<v Speaker 2>that allegation goes, so the easy way to do this

399
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:54.599
<v Speaker 2>is to just watch that that shop for a little

400
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.920
<v Speaker 2>while and see if this guy ever shows up there.

401
00:22:57.480 --> 00:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>And the problem was, after a couple of days, sure enough,

402
00:22:59.880 --> 00:23:02.039
<v Speaker 2>he does show up there, and he does spend several

403
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:05.799
<v Speaker 2>hours in there and actually with sending. So actually I

404
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>was the one that went inside and made like I

405
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:10.640
<v Speaker 2>was looking for some kind of servicing for my car

406
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:13.400
<v Speaker 2>or repair work, and it did appear that he was

407
00:23:13.480 --> 00:23:16.240
<v Speaker 2>actually more than just some kind of a customer in there.

408
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:19.000
<v Speaker 2>So now you know, we have to do this full

409
00:23:19.039 --> 00:23:24.319
<v Speaker 2>blown with surveillance and seeing what he does. And that's

410
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:27.759
<v Speaker 2>where it got a little more complicated because what didn't

411
00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.519
<v Speaker 2>make sense and still today day doesn't make sense is

412
00:23:30.599 --> 00:23:34.000
<v Speaker 2>in doing the surveillance of him, it turned out that

413
00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.640
<v Speaker 2>he was going to Laguardier Airport a lot, a lot,

414
00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 2>to the point that and we would always lose him

415
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:43.519
<v Speaker 2>in there and we're wondering where he was going, And

416
00:23:43.559 --> 00:23:45.839
<v Speaker 2>it turned out he was actually working for one of

417
00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.119
<v Speaker 2>the airlines in there. It's working as a baggage handler.

418
00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:52.799
<v Speaker 2>And so now you have the question, if you know,

419
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.519
<v Speaker 2>if this guy is hooked up with OC, what's he

420
00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:01.480
<v Speaker 2>doing hauling bags at the airport. But we ended up

421
00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:07.240
<v Speaker 2>in all the surveillance of this guy, he was, you know,

422
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.920
<v Speaker 2>on face Valley who was a happily married family man.

423
00:24:11.279 --> 00:24:16.119
<v Speaker 2>But everything that we saw during our surveillances you do

424
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>is call a lifestyle and you see where he goes,

425
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.839
<v Speaker 2>what he does, who he associates with. One of the

426
00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:24.519
<v Speaker 2>profiles that was coming through loud and clear is that

427
00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:28.640
<v Speaker 2>he was a real ladies man. So what we decided

428
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:30.559
<v Speaker 2>to do to bring this to a head was that

429
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:33.400
<v Speaker 2>since he always parked this truck in the same place,

430
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:37.720
<v Speaker 2>which was a public, public municipal parking field at the airport,

431
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:42.319
<v Speaker 2>we tried to create a situation where there would be

432
00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:45.599
<v Speaker 2>a female in distress that he could come to our aid.

433
00:24:46.319 --> 00:24:48.759
<v Speaker 2>So we were able to get a rental car parked

434
00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.799
<v Speaker 2>right next to his truck and we disabled that car.

435
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:57.200
<v Speaker 2>There was a just a switch in the trunk that

436
00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:01.119
<v Speaker 2>disabled the gas. I think it's I think it's there.

437
00:25:01.119 --> 00:25:02.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm no car guy, but I think it's if there

438
00:25:02.920 --> 00:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>was ever an accident and impact and it would stop

439
00:25:05.759 --> 00:25:08.079
<v Speaker 2>the gas from flowing and you'd have less chance of

440
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.359
<v Speaker 2>some kind of a fire. But if you just flipped

441
00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:13.079
<v Speaker 2>the switch, it would stop the gas frow. So naturally,

442
00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:15.559
<v Speaker 2>if you'll start trying to start the car, it's not

443
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.720
<v Speaker 2>going to turn over. So we had an undercover. There

444
00:25:18.759 --> 00:25:21.160
<v Speaker 2>was a unit with an IEB that did just add

445
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:25.440
<v Speaker 2>supplied undercovers for investigations, and he had a female undercover

446
00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:28.359
<v Speaker 2>that was wired up so we could we were sitting

447
00:25:28.400 --> 00:25:31.319
<v Speaker 2>maybe one hundred yards away in the lot, we could

448
00:25:31.359 --> 00:25:35.079
<v Speaker 2>hear the conversation going on, and when he returned from

449
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.880
<v Speaker 2>his shift, we were going to have her there trying

450
00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.440
<v Speaker 2>to start the car and unable to start the car

451
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:45.160
<v Speaker 2>and standing with the hood up and looking very confused

452
00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:48.480
<v Speaker 2>and hoping he would actually come to a raid and

453
00:25:48.519 --> 00:25:52.720
<v Speaker 2>then that his instincts would go from there and it worked.

454
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:55.880
<v Speaker 2>It worked a little too well that first night, because

455
00:25:56.519 --> 00:26:01.200
<v Speaker 2>after about five minutes of conversation, he actually offered to

456
00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:03.079
<v Speaker 2>take the car back to his shop. And one of

457
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:05.039
<v Speaker 2>the other things I'm leaving out is she was throwing

458
00:26:05.079 --> 00:26:07.599
<v Speaker 2>in there in the windows, like this car has been

459
00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:09.640
<v Speaker 2>nothing but a money pick for me. I wish I

460
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:12.400
<v Speaker 2>could get rid of it. And he actually offered to

461
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.759
<v Speaker 2>take it back to his shop, and the sergeant that

462
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:18.319
<v Speaker 2>I'm sitting with when we're listening there is like, Okay,

463
00:26:18.519 --> 00:26:20.680
<v Speaker 2>you know it's your call. What are we going to do?

464
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:23.759
<v Speaker 2>Because that's the one thing I hadn't planned on. I

465
00:26:23.799 --> 00:26:26.519
<v Speaker 2>hadn't planned on him offering to take it right there,

466
00:26:26.599 --> 00:26:29.480
<v Speaker 2>because now I have visions of we rented this car,

467
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.160
<v Speaker 2>we don't tell the rental company what we're using it for,

468
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:35.160
<v Speaker 2>and I have visions of now, first off, that he's

469
00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:38.799
<v Speaker 2>going to have to be taking this undercover inside this shop,

470
00:26:39.759 --> 00:26:43.279
<v Speaker 2>and I wasn't comfortable with that. And secondly, now by

471
00:26:43.319 --> 00:26:46.839
<v Speaker 2>the time I got a warrant and got in there,

472
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:50.440
<v Speaker 2>that car could be in a million pieces. And so

473
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.200
<v Speaker 2>we had a thing that worked out where we had

474
00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:57.160
<v Speaker 2>a cell phone with the sergeant calling her up and

475
00:26:57.200 --> 00:27:00.559
<v Speaker 2>playing the role of a brother and saying so she

476
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.480
<v Speaker 2>could say, first off, he was able to tell him, no,

477
00:27:03.799 --> 00:27:06.559
<v Speaker 2>don't go through with this, and tell him that your

478
00:27:06.559 --> 00:27:09.039
<v Speaker 2>brother's coming to pick you up here now, so it's okay.

479
00:27:09.119 --> 00:27:13.599
<v Speaker 2>But he took her phone number, and we were hoping

480
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.279
<v Speaker 2>he was gonna call her, and sure enough he did,

481
00:27:17.119 --> 00:27:19.759
<v Speaker 2>so they went out on a date, and that we

482
00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 2>had the whole thing again wired up. We have teams

483
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:25.160
<v Speaker 2>in different restaurants in this area because we told her, look,

484
00:27:25.839 --> 00:27:28.480
<v Speaker 2>if he wants to bounce from one restaurant to another,

485
00:27:28.759 --> 00:27:30.839
<v Speaker 2>make sure that you go from here to here so

486
00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:34.559
<v Speaker 2>we can always keep eyes on you. And she was

487
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:36.880
<v Speaker 2>wired up, and we got a lot of interesting stuff

488
00:27:36.920 --> 00:27:41.440
<v Speaker 2>on the on that on that recording. You know, he

489
00:27:41.480 --> 00:27:44.799
<v Speaker 2>had excuse me that he had he had said that

490
00:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.079
<v Speaker 2>in the there that he had he had did have

491
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 2>some type of an interest in that uh in that

492
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 2>water body shop, and that one of the first week

493
00:27:57.519 --> 00:28:00.640
<v Speaker 2>or two that he was in there, that some guys

494
00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:05.279
<v Speaker 2>came in and said, where your new uh, you know,

495
00:28:06.279 --> 00:28:10.240
<v Speaker 2>waste disposal company, And he said, I don't need a

496
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.640
<v Speaker 2>waste disposal company. I came in and took this over

497
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:15.400
<v Speaker 2>and there's a waste disposal company here, and he said,

498
00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:17.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't think you're reading us where you're a new

499
00:28:17.279 --> 00:28:19.519
<v Speaker 2>waste disposal company. And he said, get out of here.

500
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:22.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't need you. And he said about an hour later,

501
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>he's in the office, it's at night, and all of

502
00:28:24.279 --> 00:28:27.799
<v Speaker 2>a sudden, his front window gets sprayed with automatic gunfire,

503
00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:31.440
<v Speaker 2>machine gun fire, which he's hitting the floor and hoping

504
00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:34.920
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't get hit. You know. So I had a

505
00:28:34.960 --> 00:28:38.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff on on the on the on the

506
00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:43.920
<v Speaker 2>audio recording like that, and you know it was you know,

507
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:46.759
<v Speaker 2>he had a lot of similar statements like that too.

508
00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:51.559
<v Speaker 2>But it ended up where he he wouldn't really commit

509
00:28:51.759 --> 00:28:53.960
<v Speaker 2>to taking the car that night because he was more

510
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:58.119
<v Speaker 2>focused on his date and it was starting to get

511
00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:01.720
<v Speaker 2>She even called from the bathroom once that she's getting uncomfortable.

512
00:29:01.720 --> 00:29:05.000
<v Speaker 2>It's starting to get very physical. So I knew I

513
00:29:05.039 --> 00:29:07.880
<v Speaker 2>had to I had to cut this off and try

514
00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:11.119
<v Speaker 2>to do it another day. And she was able to

515
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.519
<v Speaker 2>get away from him that night without any damage, let's say,

516
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:19.240
<v Speaker 2>but it just never She tried a few times to

517
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:20.799
<v Speaker 2>get an the day, but I don't know what he

518
00:29:20.880 --> 00:29:23.519
<v Speaker 2>was if he was getting raised up or anything, but

519
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:26.319
<v Speaker 2>never got it going. Again to the point where I said,

520
00:29:26.359 --> 00:29:28.279
<v Speaker 2>now it's got to get off the murray ground here.

521
00:29:28.359 --> 00:29:32.640
<v Speaker 2>So we closed this by just bringing him in and

522
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:38.920
<v Speaker 2>they called it GEO fifteen, where you officially interrogate the individual,

523
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, for departmental purposes. And I'm also leaving one

524
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:46.599
<v Speaker 2>thing important now, all the surveillances we did at the

525
00:29:46.640 --> 00:29:51.880
<v Speaker 2>airport where we could see him out working hauling bags

526
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.000
<v Speaker 2>on the tarmac, and this was during the summer. It

527
00:29:56.039 --> 00:29:57.839
<v Speaker 2>must have been over one hundred degrees out in that

528
00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.319
<v Speaker 2>tarmac and over the couple of week we did this surveillance,

529
00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.440
<v Speaker 2>he was out sick from the police department at the time,

530
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:10.279
<v Speaker 2>which that's actually a pretty heavy departmental violation where you know,

531
00:30:10.480 --> 00:30:13.200
<v Speaker 2>you're not only are you working a job, the second

532
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:15.759
<v Speaker 2>job that you don't have authorization for where you need

533
00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:17.759
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to work a part time job, you

534
00:30:17.839 --> 00:30:20.799
<v Speaker 2>need to get departmental authorization for it, which he didn't

535
00:30:20.799 --> 00:30:25.920
<v Speaker 2>have and he was outsick working that job. So you know,

536
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:29.039
<v Speaker 2>that was another issue that actually sunk him more because

537
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>when we interrogated him, we did that official interview, I

538
00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:35.160
<v Speaker 2>got to give him credit because he was one of

539
00:30:35.200 --> 00:30:37.599
<v Speaker 2>these guys that was really cool as a cucumber. Like

540
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:42.319
<v Speaker 2>when when I actually played the tape for him where

541
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:46.400
<v Speaker 2>he's talking about the machine gun fire, he just sat

542
00:30:46.440 --> 00:30:49.079
<v Speaker 2>back and he said, Lieutenant, what do you want me

543
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:53.200
<v Speaker 2>to say? You know, I like to impress girls. I

544
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.920
<v Speaker 2>go out with him. Sometimes I tell him I'm a cowboy.

545
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.799
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I tell him I'm a I'm involved with organized crime?

546
00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.359
<v Speaker 2>Is I'm a bullshit artist with the girls. What do

547
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.000
<v Speaker 2>you want me to say? You know? So it was

548
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:06.599
<v Speaker 2>actually it was a pretty good answer actually because he

549
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:09.599
<v Speaker 2>showed up with his attorney too, right, So I mean, yeah, yeah,

550
00:31:09.759 --> 00:31:13.680
<v Speaker 2>union attorney with that. Yeah, but he was in trouble

551
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:17.200
<v Speaker 2>actually departmentally, it was the same thing. He he couldn't

552
00:31:17.720 --> 00:31:19.839
<v Speaker 2>he had no way out of that being out sick,

553
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:22.119
<v Speaker 2>and he ended up also he got fired with that

554
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.400
<v Speaker 2>because that was that was a kind of a heavy

555
00:31:24.440 --> 00:31:27.880
<v Speaker 2>duty thing with being out sick with on an open

556
00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:30.880
<v Speaker 2>working another job for several weeks out sick.

557
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:34.000
<v Speaker 1>With no authorization, right, So I mean, being sick you

558
00:31:34.039 --> 00:31:36.200
<v Speaker 1>have to like fill out forms and things like that.

559
00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:38.839
<v Speaker 2>You actually have to with the police department. You actually

560
00:31:38.839 --> 00:31:41.799
<v Speaker 2>have to stay in your house because since since the

561
00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:44.759
<v Speaker 2>NYPD has unlimited sick you don't have twelve six days,

562
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:47.079
<v Speaker 2>twenty six days. That's the beauty of it. You could

563
00:31:47.079 --> 00:31:49.240
<v Speaker 2>be sick for months and months and you just have

564
00:31:49.359 --> 00:31:52.559
<v Speaker 2>unlimited sick But there are a lot of controls on that.

565
00:31:52.960 --> 00:31:55.799
<v Speaker 2>So when you call out sick, you have to stay

566
00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:58.359
<v Speaker 2>in your primary residence and you have to call a

567
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.880
<v Speaker 2>sick desk to get permission to actually leave, to go

568
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.200
<v Speaker 2>to a drug store to go get some to eat.

569
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And there are actually investigators sergeants that go out and visit.

570
00:32:09.599 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 2>They'll knock on a door to make sure the person's home.

571
00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:14.160
<v Speaker 2>So this sick leave is a big thing with the

572
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 2>with the police department.

573
00:32:15.400 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Wow, really interesting, And there's other controls, like you're also

574
00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:22.880
<v Speaker 1>doing these integrity testings to see if these people are

575
00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:26.559
<v Speaker 1>engaging corrupt behavior. Can you talk about some of the

576
00:32:26.839 --> 00:32:29.440
<v Speaker 1>things that you did kind of to see if police

577
00:32:29.480 --> 00:32:30.960
<v Speaker 1>officers remained on the up and up.

578
00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that was that was kind of a There were

579
00:32:34.920 --> 00:32:37.319
<v Speaker 2>a lot there was. I mean, this iab experience for

580
00:32:37.359 --> 00:32:39.519
<v Speaker 2>two years. For me, it was the greatest learning experience

581
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:41.839
<v Speaker 2>I had on the job during the twenty years. But

582
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:44.759
<v Speaker 2>there was some distasteful parts to it, and this integrity

583
00:32:44.799 --> 00:32:48.119
<v Speaker 2>testing was one because the main thing was. It took

584
00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 2>up time from trying to work these cases because you

585
00:32:52.240 --> 00:32:54.640
<v Speaker 2>had to do I forget if it was one a

586
00:32:54.680 --> 00:32:57.440
<v Speaker 2>month or a couple of months, but every team had

587
00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:00.160
<v Speaker 2>to do these integrity tests where you would set up

588
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:04.400
<v Speaker 2>an artificial circumstance to try to see if the cop

589
00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:06.880
<v Speaker 2>would do the right thing or the wrong thing, and

590
00:33:07.559 --> 00:33:10.559
<v Speaker 2>it was sometimes it was very difficult to set things

591
00:33:10.599 --> 00:33:14.119
<v Speaker 2>things up. So we used to do what we called

592
00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:19.400
<v Speaker 2>throwing a bag, where you'd have a lady's pocketbook and

593
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:23.759
<v Speaker 2>we had a lot of different props, and we'd throw

594
00:33:23.960 --> 00:33:27.599
<v Speaker 2>like persons with identification, all kinds of things that would

595
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:31.079
<v Speaker 2>make it look like a lady's active pocketbook, and we'd

596
00:33:31.119 --> 00:33:35.200
<v Speaker 2>throw cash in there. And then we'd either let's say,

597
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:38.359
<v Speaker 2>have a have one of our guys who had rented

598
00:33:38.359 --> 00:33:42.119
<v Speaker 2>a cab that would now pull over, get the attention

599
00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:46.359
<v Speaker 2>of some cops either on patrol or in a vehicle

600
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:48.680
<v Speaker 2>or an R and P and say, hey, a lady

601
00:33:48.759 --> 00:33:50.599
<v Speaker 2>a while back, I just noticed that she left this

602
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:54.839
<v Speaker 2>in the cab, Or call in an anonymous nine one

603
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.279
<v Speaker 2>one call for a very benign very you gotta be

604
00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:00.599
<v Speaker 2>careful with this, couldn't be a serious you couldn't say

605
00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:03.119
<v Speaker 2>there was a robbery in progress or something, but just

606
00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.000
<v Speaker 2>something like it may look like somebody's selling drugs in

607
00:34:06.039 --> 00:34:09.159
<v Speaker 2>a park or something, something that's going to prompt a response,

608
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.599
<v Speaker 2>and then have you know, a bag sitting there. And

609
00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:16.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, the one that I remember is because we

610
00:34:16.840 --> 00:34:20.039
<v Speaker 2>tried to get away from just throwing the bag, because

611
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.079
<v Speaker 2>the CEO at the time was having a problem with that.

612
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:25.880
<v Speaker 2>Everything everybody was going out, all the teams were going

613
00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 2>out and just using handbags throwing bags. So we did

614
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:32.280
<v Speaker 2>a little variation of it. We got some simulated narcotics

615
00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:34.960
<v Speaker 2>pills in a bag just then we put them in

616
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a brown bag and put it in a next to

617
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:42.599
<v Speaker 2>a trash can in a public park in Cleans and

618
00:34:42.639 --> 00:34:46.400
<v Speaker 2>then called in a job on nine to one one

619
00:34:46.480 --> 00:34:50.199
<v Speaker 2>that you know, suspected drug deal and just we're gonna

620
00:34:50.239 --> 00:34:52.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, sit back. We had a surveillance van that

621
00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>was useless, and sit back and see what happens that

622
00:34:57.119 --> 00:34:59.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, what should happen is the cops show up,

623
00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.000
<v Speaker 2>they take the bag that has the pills and we

624
00:35:02.039 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 2>have cash inside the bag also, they take it back

625
00:35:06.039 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and then a day later we go to the command

626
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:12.360
<v Speaker 2>and there should be what's called a voucher, a property

627
00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:16.000
<v Speaker 2>clerk's invoice that shows that there were simulated narcotics and

628
00:35:16.159 --> 00:35:21.639
<v Speaker 2>x amount of dollars that were vouchered, and in this case,

629
00:35:21.719 --> 00:35:26.880
<v Speaker 2>ultimately that happened. But there was while this call was

630
00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:30.320
<v Speaker 2>out there there were a couple of more serious jobs

631
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:33.199
<v Speaker 2>that went over the air in this sector. A motor

632
00:35:33.280 --> 00:35:36.320
<v Speaker 2>vehicle accident with injuries, which is natural, they're going to

633
00:35:36.400 --> 00:35:39.199
<v Speaker 2>go to that first. So myself and the sergeant that

634
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.920
<v Speaker 2>I was with were in this surveillance van that was

635
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:49.159
<v Speaker 2>insanely hot inside of it and trying to hopefully, you know,

636
00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:52.599
<v Speaker 2>that they were going to show up, you know, sometime soon.

637
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 2>And you know, during the time, he's doing all kinds

638
00:35:57.719 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>of things to keep busy, you know, going back and

639
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:04.320
<v Speaker 2>forth in the van. And there it was in a park.

640
00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:06.239
<v Speaker 2>There was somebody to pull up next to us, and

641
00:36:06.280 --> 00:36:09.559
<v Speaker 2>since the van was sitting up higher, I could actually

642
00:36:09.639 --> 00:36:12.880
<v Speaker 2>see out through this little peephole thing there that the

643
00:36:12.920 --> 00:36:16.199
<v Speaker 2>guy was sitting there, older gentleman was sitting there. Looks

644
00:36:16.199 --> 00:36:20.280
<v Speaker 2>they just reading the paper. But at one point I

645
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.519
<v Speaker 2>also noticed that it looked like he took note of

646
00:36:22.559 --> 00:36:26.159
<v Speaker 2>the fact that the van was brocking back and forth

647
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:29.519
<v Speaker 2>because he was just getting very antsy inside there and

648
00:36:29.599 --> 00:36:34.000
<v Speaker 2>kind of moving back and forth. My partner was so finally,

649
00:36:34.400 --> 00:36:38.280
<v Speaker 2>finally the cops show up. They go to where this

650
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.039
<v Speaker 2>report was for the trash can, they see the bag,

651
00:36:41.079 --> 00:36:43.840
<v Speaker 2>they look inside, they take it, and they leave so

652
00:36:43.920 --> 00:36:47.119
<v Speaker 2>we can finally come out. They opened the door. We're

653
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.679
<v Speaker 2>drenched in sweat, and then as we are standing there,

654
00:36:52.719 --> 00:36:54.519
<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden, this guy that was next to us,

655
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.760
<v Speaker 2>he backs out and goes to leave, and as he's leaving,

656
00:36:58.599 --> 00:37:02.199
<v Speaker 2>he just looks at us and yells, you freaks. And

657
00:37:02.719 --> 00:37:05.159
<v Speaker 2>it took a minute for me to understand what was

658
00:37:05.239 --> 00:37:09.280
<v Speaker 2>going on there, and it was actually the sogeant my partner,

659
00:37:09.280 --> 00:37:12.239
<v Speaker 2>who started cracking up and got it. He said, this

660
00:37:12.320 --> 00:37:15.440
<v Speaker 2>guy just thinks he goes he's sitting there and he's

661
00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:18.840
<v Speaker 2>seeing this van rocking back and forth, and then he

662
00:37:18.960 --> 00:37:23.039
<v Speaker 2>sees two sweatsiak guys compiling out of the side of

663
00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:26.119
<v Speaker 2>the van. He says, he thinks we've been We've been

664
00:37:26.159 --> 00:37:29.960
<v Speaker 2>sitting in this parks parking lot in there, having a

665
00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.039
<v Speaker 2>good time with each other back there.

666
00:37:32.119 --> 00:37:36.599
<v Speaker 1>And it's funny, because you there are these funny moments

667
00:37:36.599 --> 00:37:40.239
<v Speaker 1>all through this book, like you guys make you know,

668
00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:43.119
<v Speaker 1>I have jokes for each other, and you can see

669
00:37:43.159 --> 00:37:46.599
<v Speaker 1>the kind of camaraderie and things to do while you're

670
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:48.679
<v Speaker 1>doing the job. I think that comes through in the book.

671
00:37:48.920 --> 00:37:50.760
<v Speaker 1>There's a lot more in the book too. I mean,

672
00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:54.480
<v Speaker 1>you cover a murder case, shoplifting, all kinds of really

673
00:37:54.719 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 1>different variety of different challenges. It was really interesting.

674
00:37:58.920 --> 00:38:00.960
<v Speaker 2>That was the thing with I why I said it

675
00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:04.639
<v Speaker 2>was the greatest learning experience because you know, just like

676
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:07.519
<v Speaker 2>you have, like I said, at microcosms society, just like

677
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:10.480
<v Speaker 2>you have murders in society. Somewhere in the NYPD with

678
00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:13.840
<v Speaker 2>forty thousand people, you've got a murderer there too, you know.

679
00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:16.920
<v Speaker 2>And so one day, you know, we're working a murder case.

680
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:18.920
<v Speaker 2>The next day we're working a drug case, the next

681
00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:22.159
<v Speaker 2>day we're working a fraud case. It ran the gamut

682
00:38:22.199 --> 00:38:23.960
<v Speaker 2>of all these different investigations.

683
00:38:24.360 --> 00:38:26.840
<v Speaker 1>It's really fascinating. Like you heard the stories about the

684
00:38:26.840 --> 00:38:30.440
<v Speaker 1>internal investigation groups, but this is really the insight. So

685
00:38:30.519 --> 00:38:33.199
<v Speaker 1>I recommend people check this out. Where's the best place

686
00:38:33.320 --> 00:38:34.960
<v Speaker 1>to get this book?

687
00:38:35.039 --> 00:38:40.199
<v Speaker 2>Robert Amazon and go on to my author page and

688
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:44.039
<v Speaker 2>just look up. Look up Robert O'Brien on Amazon and

689
00:38:44.079 --> 00:38:46.000
<v Speaker 2>you'll find that book and my other books.

690
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:48.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, tons of other books too. How many books have

691
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 1>you written at this point.

692
00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:52.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm close to thirty right now. Wow.

693
00:38:52.400 --> 00:38:55.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, either it was a long list. And do you

694
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:58.079
<v Speaker 1>have like social media.

695
00:38:57.559 --> 00:39:03.559
<v Speaker 2>Or h I do have. I have a Facebook page

696
00:39:03.679 --> 00:39:05.920
<v Speaker 2>Robert O'Brien, and I also have a group that I

697
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:10.159
<v Speaker 2>moderate police books. And I do have a website Robert

698
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:11.159
<v Speaker 2>Brian author.

699
00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Robert Brian author. If people want to reach out to you,

700
00:39:13.960 --> 00:39:16.599
<v Speaker 1>they can do it through that website Robert Elbrian dot com.

701
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:20.039
<v Speaker 1>Really interesting book and conversation. Thanks so much for your time. Again,

702
00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.400
<v Speaker 1>the title of the book is CCASE, An Unlikely Journey

703
00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:26.960
<v Speaker 1>from Transit cop to Internal Affairs Bureau Squad Commander by

704
00:39:27.079 --> 00:39:30.039
<v Speaker 1>Robert Lbrian And there's a lot more stories and things

705
00:39:30.079 --> 00:39:32.599
<v Speaker 1>in there, so people take that step and go check

706
00:39:32.599 --> 00:39:34.599
<v Speaker 1>out this book. So thanks so much for your time, Robert,

707
00:39:34.880 --> 00:39:36.679
<v Speaker 1>my pleasure. Thank you for having me. Take care,