WEBVTT 1 00:00:23.000 --> 00:00:27.199 We're Tom Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello, KITT's, 2 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.359 welcome back to another edition of the p SL. I'm 3 00:00:29.359 --> 00:00:31.559 the team. You're te Lo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here 4 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:33.320 with the Loane You t Lo Lorenzo becas my love, 5 00:00:33.359 --> 00:00:36.679 the husband who's you know what you're dying to say it? 6 00:00:36.759 --> 00:00:40.039 Go ahead say birthday to my wonderful husband. It's his 7 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:42.000 birthday today. He didn't want to me to mention it, 8 00:00:42.039 --> 00:00:45.000 but I will, and I think I need to. He's 9 00:00:45.079 --> 00:00:49.079 a wonderful man. I'm so honored and proud and happy 10 00:00:49.439 --> 00:00:50.560 to be with you. 11 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:51.960 The same. 12 00:00:54.840 --> 00:00:57.520 Anyway, it's his birthday and he's a wonderful person. So 13 00:00:57.679 --> 00:00:58.359 happy birthday. 14 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:02.439 Thank you for that. You were also wonderful person. Much 15 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:07.480 to discuss today. We're gonna dive into some Pride stuff 16 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:10.120 and oh we're going to have a lot to say 17 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:12.879 about the finale Widow's Bay. That'll be in the second 18 00:01:12.920 --> 00:01:15.280 half of this podcast because we're going to spoil the 19 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.400 hell out of that one. But we wanted to weigh 20 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:23.519 in on the current Pride Night controversy that is hitting 21 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:29.319 Major League Baseball. We have thoughts that probably shouldn't surprise you. 22 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:34.120 But actually I think our conclusions might surprise you. But 23 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:35.879 before we get into that, I kind of have an 24 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:38.760 announcement and it's not you know, it's not a happy one, 25 00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:40.640 but it's not a terrible one. Don't worry. 26 00:01:41.439 --> 00:01:43.519 Oh, we just thought that you guys who have been 27 00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:46.799 following us and following the story needed to do. Yeah. 28 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:47.959 We all right. 29 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.799 So if you've been listening to us or reading us 30 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:53.879 or whatever for any length of time, you might know 31 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:58.000 that we have been working with a woman named Rachel 32 00:01:58.000 --> 00:02:02.879 Harlowe on her biograph. Rachel is a trans woman who 33 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:07.079 U fifty years ago. Sixty years ago, she became a 34 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:10.520 cause celeb at the can Film Festival, and she went 35 00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:13.319 off to Hollywood, and then she came back to Philadelphia 36 00:02:13.360 --> 00:02:17.240 and opened a discotheque. And she had a very colorful life. 37 00:02:17.319 --> 00:02:21.479 She dated Grace Kelly's brother at one point it was 38 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:25.479 a big scandal in the city. A lot of fascinating 39 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:30.840 aspects to her life and we, I in particular, have 40 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:32.639 been obsessed with her since I was a kid. She 41 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:35.599 was a local Philadelphia legend when I was a kid, 42 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.759 and I was obsessed with her. And then when we 43 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:44.520 were researching Legendary Children, our book on the history of 44 00:02:44.599 --> 00:02:50.199 drag and queer culture. Her story came up and I thought, 45 00:02:50.240 --> 00:02:53.240 oh God, no one really, you know, when you look 46 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:55.240 her up and everything, there just wasn't a lot of 47 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:59.080 information about her out there. She had faded in importance, 48 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.000 and I felt that we had a sort of a 49 00:03:03.039 --> 00:03:05.319 responsibility to try and get her story back out in 50 00:03:05.319 --> 00:03:08.520 the world. So after several years of trying to track 51 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:12.479 her down, we finally did, and we got her to 52 00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:14.599 agree to work with us on this book. And we 53 00:03:14.719 --> 00:03:21.360 spent three years interviewing her, interviewing her friends and colleagues, 54 00:03:21.439 --> 00:03:25.520 and doing research on the book and pitching it. And 55 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:29.120 let me explain a little bit about the world of 56 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:34.080 pitching a book. So I've never written novels, so I 57 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:36.000 can't even speak to what it's like for when you're 58 00:03:36.039 --> 00:03:39.599 writing fiction. But when you're writing nonfiction, you normally have 59 00:03:39.719 --> 00:03:43.360 to submit a proposal for consideration, and that proposal is 60 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:46.080 basically a shorter version of the book. 61 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:48.000 It's it. 62 00:03:48.560 --> 00:03:50.199 You know, there's more to it than that, but you 63 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:52.639 basically have to have every chapter of the book completely 64 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.439 mapped out and partially written, and you usually have to 65 00:03:55.439 --> 00:03:59.520 have at least one chapter fully written out. You have 66 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:01.439 to have a more marketing plan, you have to have 67 00:04:01.639 --> 00:04:04.120 you know, you have to talk about what your goals 68 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:06.479 and themes and everything for the book is going to be. 69 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:09.319 And it's a long process and it's a hard process. 70 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:13.599 And speaking as the co authors of two different of 71 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:16.720 two published books, you should know that we have gone 72 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:19.399 through this process six or seven times. There's you know, 73 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:22.160 you throw out proposals, but you don't always get offers. 74 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:27.720 But we felt very very strongly about this book, and 75 00:04:28.600 --> 00:04:33.560 our initial round of pitches were met with some reluctance 76 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.879 because the publishing industry was feeling this and this was 77 00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:43.800 last year, was feeling that maybe trans stories were too controversial, 78 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:46.600 maybe the public was turning against this sort of thing, 79 00:04:46.639 --> 00:04:49.000 you know, in the wake of the Trump election and everything. 80 00:04:50.199 --> 00:04:53.839 So we weren't getting offers. And then we retold it 81 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:59.480 and sent it out again this year and we started 82 00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:02.560 getting a lot of interest with it. Actually, in fact, 83 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:05.839 more interest from this proposal than from any other proposal 84 00:05:05.839 --> 00:05:10.120 we've ever had out there. At one point there were 85 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:15.199 four publishers who were expressing interest and our agent was 86 00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:18.040 thinking about trying to get them into a sort of 87 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:23.040 you know, pitching battle or whatever in the end. But 88 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:29.360 like I said, it's very difficult right now, nonfiction publishing 89 00:05:29.439 --> 00:05:32.160 is in free fall. Nobody understands what sells. The only 90 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.160 things that seem to sell are like celebrity books or 91 00:05:35.160 --> 00:05:39.839 political books written by political insiders, but you know, everything else. 92 00:05:39.959 --> 00:05:45.399 And there have been several high profile trands biographies that 93 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:47.600 were published in the last couple of years. One was 94 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.519 Marsha P. Johnson's, one was Candy Darlings, and they did 95 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:53.519 they didn't actually sell all that well, so it was 96 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:55.959 an uphill battle. At one point I said to Lorenzo, 97 00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.319 was like, I feel like I'm swimming up a waterfall 98 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:01.920 trying to get this done. But we believed in it, 99 00:06:02.519 --> 00:06:07.040 and we and there were there were publishers showing interest, 100 00:06:07.079 --> 00:06:09.360 so we just kept plugging away and plugging away. This 101 00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:16.120 was a very hard process for Rachel because everything I 102 00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:18.519 just said to you about the industry, about the culture, 103 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:20.680 about where we are right now, and the difficulties of 104 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:23.600 selling a nonfiction book that was kind of falling on 105 00:06:23.639 --> 00:06:25.680 deaf ears every time I tried to explain it to her, 106 00:06:25.720 --> 00:06:29.319 because from her perspective, she felt like it was a 107 00:06:29.360 --> 00:06:32.360 statement on her life, like she was taking the slowness 108 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:37.199 of this process somewhat personally. Long story short, we last 109 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:40.959 month we fielded two offers from publishers. They were not 110 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:45.040 lucrative offers, but they were very you know, the publishers 111 00:06:45.040 --> 00:06:49.639 were excited, and the fact that we were able to 112 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.199 get these offers in this market right just insane, insane, 113 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:57.600 and we were ready to sign with one of them, 114 00:06:57.639 --> 00:07:01.959 the one who made the better offer. When Rachel she bounced. 115 00:07:02.199 --> 00:07:08.439 Basically she found the whole process too, I guess, demoralizing 116 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:10.600 in a certain way, like her whole life was put 117 00:07:10.639 --> 00:07:15.120 on a on a on display, and and and we 118 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.240 had to pitch it. Like I think in her mind 119 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:19.199 she thought people were just going to line up and 120 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:22.920 and just throw money at us. And you should understand 121 00:07:22.959 --> 00:07:24.920 that we in agreement with Rachel that we were splitting 122 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:27.000 the advance with her, so she had a financial stake 123 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:30.720 in this. She was not happy, She was not happy 124 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:35.319 with the author with the offer, and away just walked 125 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:38.360 away from it, completely, cut off, cut off contact with us. 126 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:42.480 After three years. Yeah, let me you can get your 127 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:44.160 I'm not going to cut you off. But I always 128 00:07:44.199 --> 00:07:51.120 want to say this was painful, beyond painful, and I'm 129 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:53.879 I'm not going to bad mouth her, but it was very, 130 00:07:53.959 --> 00:07:58.519 very disappointing, and I want to reiterate she loved what 131 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:02.639 we wrote. This was not a bad her not believing 132 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.879 in the process. I mean she cried when she read 133 00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:07.439 the proposal. She cried when she read the piece in 134 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:11.639 the Inquirer. So this wasn't about creative differences. It wasn't 135 00:08:11.639 --> 00:08:14.199 about her walking away from something that she felt wasn't 136 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:16.360 in her best interest. She just you know, didn't think 137 00:08:16.399 --> 00:08:21.720 it was worth her time, so to speak. And we 138 00:08:21.720 --> 00:08:24.040 felt we needed to tell you because we put ourself. 139 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:27.079 We stuck our necks out. As I said, this is 140 00:08:27.120 --> 00:08:29.360 like our seventh book proposal. We don't go around telling 141 00:08:29.399 --> 00:08:31.399 everyone when we're because you don't know if these things 142 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:32.039 are going to work out. 143 00:08:32.200 --> 00:08:33.320 That's because we believe. 144 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.000 Yeah, not only that, but we felt like we need 145 00:08:37.000 --> 00:08:38.840 to drum up interest, We need to be out there 146 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.240 telling people that we're working on this. So we stuck 147 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:43.320 our neck out and now this book is not happening, 148 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:47.120 even though we did get the offers right. So anyway, 149 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:48.559 I thought you needed to know. 150 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:52.639 Yeah, you know, writing a book, pitching a TV show 151 00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.600 or a movie or anything it's so much work that 152 00:08:56.720 --> 00:08:59.000 people don't know. People don't know. That's why sometimes you 153 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:00.919 see you producers say, you know, it took us five 154 00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:05.000 years to get this show. You know, someone to agree on, 155 00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:08.399 you know, saying yes this show or movie or book. 156 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:12.519 If you're not very very famous like Barbara Streis and 157 00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:15.559 line them Ali for example, or or the show Obama. 158 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:19.360 You know, people are not lining up to sign up 159 00:09:19.399 --> 00:09:21.919 with you for anything. Believe me, you. 160 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.639 We never went into this thinging it was you really 161 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:26.879 have to, because we. 162 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:28.919 Know how it works and how hard you have to 163 00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.360 work on getting a book published. Again, if you're not 164 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.480 Michelle Obama is, you really have to work hard. You 165 00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:38.159 have to convince this people. And when it comes to books, 166 00:09:38.759 --> 00:09:42.120 books is specifically there's a window there and if you 167 00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.639 miss that window, then it's gone. Uh, they have no 168 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:48.840 interest anymore. And sometimes they have slots like like a 169 00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:51.399 publisher will say, okay, we'll have well, we're gonna publish 170 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:54.519 five books this this semester this year, and then they 171 00:09:55.120 --> 00:09:57.879 you know, if you're not one one of those books 172 00:09:57.960 --> 00:10:00.639 or or whatever they want to publish that, then they 173 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:03.159 pass and then you move on to the next one. 174 00:10:03.519 --> 00:10:08.360 It's just and then the whole political thing. Also, you know, people. 175 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:12.039 Were scared of looking at LGBTQ stories when we first 176 00:10:12.080 --> 00:10:14.240 started pitching this in like twenty twenty five. 177 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:18.639 So when we talk to Rachel about this book, we 178 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:20.720 were very clear from the beginning that you know, we're 179 00:10:20.759 --> 00:10:21.799 here to tell your story. 180 00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:23.080 We're not here to make money. 181 00:10:23.080 --> 00:10:24.639 We're not here to make money. I want to tell 182 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:26.759 you that we're not here to make money. And because 183 00:10:26.840 --> 00:10:29.879 this is how it works. And the thing is that 184 00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:32.440 when you get a book published, you might not make 185 00:10:32.480 --> 00:10:34.679 a lot of money, but there's potential there to have 186 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.840 that book. You know, I don't know, pitch as a 187 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.840 TV show, a documentary or something. I mean there's potential 188 00:10:40.879 --> 00:10:44.559 there after you get the book published. So sometimes you 189 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:47.480 publish a book not because of the money, but because 190 00:10:47.480 --> 00:10:50.120 it's going to be out there published and things can 191 00:10:50.200 --> 00:10:55.320 happen after that. So anyway, it you know, it's it's 192 00:10:55.360 --> 00:10:58.480 it's a lot of stress. It's it's it's it's it's 193 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:02.960 not a funny, uh a fun process at all. It's 194 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:04.799 very stressful. You don't know what's going to happen. 195 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:07.960 You know, you ruin my health this year. I'll be perfect. 196 00:11:08.480 --> 00:11:10.679 The stress of this really had an effect on my. 197 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:14.000 Thomas specifically has been working on this for three years 198 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:18.120 and it's just hard. It's as hard. And when we 199 00:11:18.279 --> 00:11:20.639 finally and I give him a lot of credit for that, 200 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.919 because we got two offers, which is a maroquette. 201 00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:27.919 You know, I will state for the record that getting 202 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:31.879 those offers in this market, yes times, what I'm telling 203 00:11:31.960 --> 00:11:36.639 this story is honestly one of the greatest professional achievements 204 00:11:36.639 --> 00:11:40.279 of my life to actually get offers, because it for 205 00:11:40.399 --> 00:11:42.240 a really long time, it didn't look like it was 206 00:11:42.279 --> 00:11:42.840 going to happen. 207 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:45.399 So so and I give him a lot of credit, 208 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:47.879 and I hope he keeps that in mind that he 209 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:51.279 worked trying, He worked really really hard, and we only 210 00:11:51.279 --> 00:11:54.840 got offers because of him. But then, you know, after 211 00:11:54.879 --> 00:11:57.519 we got two offers, we were excited about one offer 212 00:11:57.600 --> 00:11:59.799 and then she decided not to do it anymore. 213 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.840 So that was she write no context completely. 214 00:12:03.039 --> 00:12:04.759 So it was heartbreaking. 215 00:12:04.759 --> 00:12:05.759 So it was heartbreaking. 216 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:08.639 And we want to put this out there because we 217 00:12:08.759 --> 00:12:11.120 mentioned this book so much for you guys, and you know, 218 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:13.960 to give you a little understanding, a little bit of 219 00:12:14.360 --> 00:12:17.759 you know, how things work. So if you write a book, 220 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:21.440 believe me, it's a long process. It's not just writing 221 00:12:21.440 --> 00:12:23.440 a book. Type in the book and giving to somebody 222 00:12:23.559 --> 00:12:26.200 and say yes, we're going to publish. It's a lot 223 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:30.720 of work. It's trying to convince a whole bunch of 224 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:34.200 a whole group of people that that book is worth publishing. Yeah, 225 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.440 it's a long process and you really have to believe 226 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.399 in it, which we did. But we were also relying 227 00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:42.360 on her to be part of it. And when you know, 228 00:12:42.600 --> 00:12:43.679 you decide not to do it. 229 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:47.799 Just as an explanation, I mean, there was no question 230 00:12:47.879 --> 00:12:53.600 of us continuing without her. The pitch. Every time a 231 00:12:53.600 --> 00:12:56.200 publisher came back to us with a question or expressing 232 00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:58.679 an interest, they all had the same question, how involved 233 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:02.960 is Rachel? Because they want they wanted her involvement, they 234 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:06.320 wanted and part of the pitch that you know in 235 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:09.200 the proposal was that we said that Rachel would be 236 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:11.759 available to promote the book, that she would do interviews 237 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:13.360 for the book and that sort of thing. But if 238 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:16.039 if she's not doing that, then you know, there can 239 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.000 be no book. Not in the current atmosphere, right, I 240 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:22.679 have all this material on Rachel. I have forty hours 241 00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:26.440 of interviews. I'm not saying there will never be a book. 242 00:13:26.759 --> 00:13:29.639 But this project is dead for now. 243 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:34.759 The bottom line here is that, and the takeaway here 244 00:13:34.799 --> 00:13:38.519 for everyone, even if you're not involved in this project obviously, 245 00:13:38.679 --> 00:13:41.240 is that you know, you take a lot of nose 246 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:42.919 before you take a yes, and you just have to 247 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:46.279 get used to it right and if you and if 248 00:13:46.320 --> 00:13:48.919 you're not ready for that, then you fall apart. That's 249 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:52.480 what happened with her. You just have to keep going. 250 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.440 And you know, it's a process. It's a very stressful process. 251 00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:58.360 You have to work really hard to get that there, 252 00:13:59.600 --> 00:14:02.919 and you know, we did and then we did it. 253 00:14:03.039 --> 00:14:06.360 Anyway, we're working on There was a book proposal put 254 00:14:06.399 --> 00:14:09.039 aside several years back so that we could work on 255 00:14:09.080 --> 00:14:11.480 this Rachel book because we thought it was more timely. 256 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.600 So we're returning to a previous proposal. It is about 257 00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:17.960 movie costumes, and hopefully someday we'll have an announcement about 258 00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:20.720 that one. As always, you just pick up the pieces 259 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.360 and rode on exactly. All right, So let's take a 260 00:14:23.399 --> 00:14:24.960 short break and we'll be back and we're going to 261 00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:27.120 talk about the Pride Night controversy. 262 00:14:27.200 --> 00:14:28.000 We'll be right back. 263 00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:32.240 We're back, and we're going to talk a little bit 264 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:36.879 about the Pride Night controversy sleep in the Nation, So 265 00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:40.279 it became what a surprise, let's start with this. Last year, 266 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.600 tonight is actually Pride Night for the Phillies. We won't 267 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:45.559 be going because we're going out to dinner for my birthday. 268 00:14:45.559 --> 00:14:49.200 But last year we did go on my birthday for 269 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:51.120 Pride Night. It was the first time I had ever 270 00:14:51.159 --> 00:14:52.960 been at a Pride Night. I've been going to Phillies 271 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:54.919 games since I was you know, for as long as 272 00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:57.240 I can remember, since I was a child, but I'd 273 00:14:57.279 --> 00:15:01.200 never gone on a Pride Night And it was lovely 274 00:15:01.399 --> 00:15:04.759 and revelatory because, you know, the the lights in the 275 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:09.039 stadium were lit up rainbow, and every time you looked 276 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:11.559 at the JumboTron there was some queer person up there. 277 00:15:11.600 --> 00:15:14.759 There was you know, trans people and lesbians and gay 278 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:18.240 people every single time and like gaying it up. You know, 279 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:21.000 there were drag queens and everything, and just that they 280 00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:23.039 had the choir, the Philadelphia Oh yeah, they had the 281 00:15:23.039 --> 00:15:28.240 Philadelphia Gay Men's Choir. It just it was lovely as 282 00:15:28.279 --> 00:15:32.320 a Phillies fan and a baseball fan to have that 283 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:36.440 moment of community in a space where you never felt 284 00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:39.279 like you could have that moment of community. And I'll 285 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:43.000 say something here that people they never like hearing this, 286 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:47.759 But you know, Lorenzo and I are gen X came 287 00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:49.720 in we are gay men of a certain age, and 288 00:15:49.759 --> 00:15:52.600 we didn't we didn't come of age. You know, a 289 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:55.759 world as accepting of us as it is now. So 290 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:01.799 to go to a baseball in a stadium as a 291 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.720 gay couple on a non pride night means that, yes, 292 00:16:06.879 --> 00:16:10.720 you are kind of tempering your behavior. You're not gonna, like, 293 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:14.440 you know, get all affectionate in the stands unless you're 294 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.559 sure you're you know, that's just that's just the reality 295 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:19.720 of it. I'm sorry. We Lorenzo and I also don't 296 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:22.360 walk down the street holding hands. We've never kissed in public. 297 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:26.720 Like we're not of that generation and I and very 298 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:31.440 much even no matter your generation, a major league sporting 299 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:35.480 event is generally not the place for queer expression of 300 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:36.200 any kind. 301 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:38.639 And to be honest with you, even when it's Pride day, 302 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.080 I don't feel that comfortable doing certain things, you know, 303 00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:43.080 like holding hands or whatever. I mean, that's just see, 304 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.960 that's me because that's how I grew up, never holding 305 00:16:47.000 --> 00:16:49.960 hands or never showing any affection. I mean even even 306 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:54.039 in the presence of family members. It's sometimes things have changed, 307 00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:56.360 believe me. But but we are. 308 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.240 Of the generation, and like I said, this isn't just 309 00:16:58.279 --> 00:17:01.639 a generational thing. I think young queer people also don't 310 00:17:01.679 --> 00:17:05.119 feel like a Major League Baseball game is necessarily a 311 00:17:05.160 --> 00:17:07.880 place where they can make out with their girlfriend or whatever. 312 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.720 Not that you know, you should be watching the game 313 00:17:12.759 --> 00:17:15.119 and cheering the game. It's not. It's not a place 314 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.319 to make out. But even so, any sort of affection 315 00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:23.000 or or queerness or expression of yourself you sort of 316 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:24.359 have to temper it. You sort of have to make 317 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:27.160 sure am I okay here. That's just the reality being 318 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.920 queer in the world, and even more so in twenty 319 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.720 twenty six. So I just want to say I loved 320 00:17:35.759 --> 00:17:41.039 Pride Night, and I I think I felt more of 321 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:45.400 a sense of pride and community there than I did 322 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.400 at the most recent Pride event, you know, Pride Parade 323 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:51.599 or whatever that I went to, maybe because because of 324 00:17:51.640 --> 00:17:54.359 the setting. The setting itself wasn't gay. The setting was, 325 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:59.519 if anything, ragingly heteronormative. So to see that sort of 326 00:17:59.559 --> 00:18:03.119 queerness and that acceptance of queerness, and let's be clear here, 327 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.920 it's a stadium of forty five thousand people, maybe maybe 328 00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.359 five percent of them were queer, and everybody else just 329 00:18:11.400 --> 00:18:13.759 had to deal with all that queerness around them and 330 00:18:13.799 --> 00:18:17.160 there was no problem. I mean, Philly is not the 331 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.759 most progressive called, you know, socially progressive city in the world, 332 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:23.519 but it still is progressive and liberal and there was 333 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:29.240 not a problem. So this week San Francisco, and that's 334 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:31.279 that this is part of the issue here is because 335 00:18:31.319 --> 00:18:34.000 San Francisco was like the queer capital of the United States. 336 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:36.799 It always has been, right and said, the San Francisco 337 00:18:36.839 --> 00:18:41.359 Giants had a bride night and the players were given 338 00:18:43.599 --> 00:18:46.119 caps to where, you know, giants caps that had a 339 00:18:46.200 --> 00:18:49.839 rainbow logo, you know, had the Giants logo rendered in 340 00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:54.359 the progressive rainbow flag, and several of the players wound 341 00:18:54.440 --> 00:19:01.440 up writing over the logo in silver marker referring to 342 00:19:01.559 --> 00:19:05.279 a Bible quote about the rainbow covenant with God. 343 00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.480 Yeah, it was the genesis whatever quote quote or whatever 344 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:14.240 you yeah, about God creating the rainbow as a sign 345 00:19:14.359 --> 00:19:15.559 of you know whatever. 346 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:21.000 Covenant with his people. Which, Okay, this is where we're 347 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.559 going to get into some stuff. For one, Okay, I 348 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:28.119 think those players were obnoxious assholes for doing this. 349 00:19:28.200 --> 00:19:29.759 Oh yeah, But. 350 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.960 When I read what the verse was, I was like, well, 351 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:38.319 you know, honestly, honestly, I think their dicks. But that 352 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.799 could have been way more offensive, Like they could have 353 00:19:40.839 --> 00:19:43.319 written a verse about man shall not lie with man, 354 00:19:43.400 --> 00:19:46.160 or about sodom and gomoor or whatever. But it was 355 00:19:46.440 --> 00:19:51.559 just about trying, as quote a Christian to reclaim the 356 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.440 rainbow or to you, you know whatever. I think in 357 00:19:55.519 --> 00:20:01.240 terms of protest, in terms of Christian based protest, they 358 00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:03.640 could have been a lot worse than what they did. 359 00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:08.240 I'm not excusing it. I am offended by it. I 360 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:10.640 am hurt by it. I am hurt that Major League 361 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:15.480 Baseball cannot bring itself to to to welcome a queer 362 00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:16.160 fan like me. 363 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:21.319 I feel bad for the queer people who love sports, 364 00:20:21.319 --> 00:20:24.920 for example, right because one, because you know, you feel 365 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:28.400 like you have no space, no place, uh and and 366 00:20:28.440 --> 00:20:31.880 it's just and it's it's it's bad. It's horrible. Actually, 367 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.680 I feel bad for all the for all these people. Yeah, 368 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:41.000 it's a horrible thing. And you know you can't just 369 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:43.240 leave it alone. You have to make some sort of 370 00:20:43.240 --> 00:20:45.759 statement like that that clearly you know you just want 371 00:20:45.799 --> 00:20:48.039 to offend people. Because that's just to offense. 372 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:50.640 I'm not I'm not suggesting that what they did was 373 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:54.640 an offensive. I'm just saying at least at least they 374 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:57.000 they sort of took the path of least resistance and 375 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:01.960 just did a relatively inoffensive take on the rainbow. Like 376 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:04.039 I said, I lived through the eighties and nineties. The 377 00:21:04.119 --> 00:21:06.160 rhetoric could have gotten a lot uglier than that. They 378 00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:09.559 really would have called me an abomination before the Lord 379 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.599 or whatever. Now. 380 00:21:13.079 --> 00:21:14.680 Also, I just want to add that it's not just 381 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:17.759 these you know, football it's unfolding. Yeah, it's now become 382 00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:21.519 a thing soccer players in Europe. Here in the United States, 383 00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:25.160 male and female. My I should dad, you know, just 384 00:21:25.359 --> 00:21:29.440 not wanting to wear anything pride, you know. 385 00:21:29.440 --> 00:21:31.400 Because and there was a minor league gave in York, 386 00:21:31.680 --> 00:21:35.240 PA last night, York, Pennsylvania where the team wound up 387 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:38.200 before fitting the game because they refused to wear pride gear. 388 00:21:39.920 --> 00:21:45.160 So this, this gets into some complicated questions because there 389 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:47.559 is a big, big, big, big big part of me 390 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.119 that does not agree with the idea of forcing people 391 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.160 to wear pride gear. 392 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.039 I agree with you. 393 00:21:55.279 --> 00:22:02.119 That's that's when you start getting into all right, I'm gonna. 394 00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.880 I just feel as queer people and people on the 395 00:22:06.039 --> 00:22:09.920 left generally, we've never been very good at picking our battles. 396 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.839 And a prime example of this is the the wedding 397 00:22:13.880 --> 00:22:17.000 cake battle, right. I remember when that was unfolding and 398 00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.000 suing all these bakers, and I was like, this is 399 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:23.640 only going to anger the right wing more and now 400 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:26.240 they have a rallying cry, and sure enough they did. 401 00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.839