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Speaker 1: We're Tom Lorenzo and this is the Pop Style Opinion Fest. Hello, KITT's,

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welcome back to another edition of the p SL. I'm

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the team. You're te Lo Tom Fitzgerald, and I'm here

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with the Loane You t Lo Lorenzo becas my love,

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the husband who's you know what you're dying to say it?

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Speaker 2: Go ahead say birthday to my wonderful husband. It's his

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birthday today. He didn't want to me to mention it,

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but I will, and I think I need to. He's

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a wonderful man. I'm so honored and proud and happy

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to be with you.

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Speaker 1: The same.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, it's his birthday and he's a wonderful person. So

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happy birthday.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that. You were also wonderful person. Much

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to discuss today. We're gonna dive into some Pride stuff

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and oh we're going to have a lot to say

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about the finale Widow's Bay. That'll be in the second

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half of this podcast because we're going to spoil the

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hell out of that one. But we wanted to weigh

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in on the current Pride Night controversy that is hitting

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Major League Baseball. We have thoughts that probably shouldn't surprise you.

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But actually I think our conclusions might surprise you. But

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before we get into that, I kind of have an

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announcement and it's not you know, it's not a happy one,

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but it's not a terrible one. Don't worry.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we just thought that you guys who have been

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following us and following the story needed to do. Yeah.

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We all right.

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Speaker 1: So if you've been listening to us or reading us

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or whatever for any length of time, you might know

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that we have been working with a woman named Rachel

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Harlowe on her biograph. Rachel is a trans woman who

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U fifty years ago. Sixty years ago, she became a

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cause celeb at the can Film Festival, and she went

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off to Hollywood, and then she came back to Philadelphia

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and opened a discotheque. And she had a very colorful life.

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She dated Grace Kelly's brother at one point it was

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a big scandal in the city. A lot of fascinating

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aspects to her life and we, I in particular, have

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been obsessed with her since I was a kid. She

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was a local Philadelphia legend when I was a kid,

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and I was obsessed with her. And then when we

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were researching Legendary Children, our book on the history of

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drag and queer culture. Her story came up and I thought,

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oh God, no one really, you know, when you look

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her up and everything, there just wasn't a lot of

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information about her out there. She had faded in importance,

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and I felt that we had a sort of a

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responsibility to try and get her story back out in

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the world. So after several years of trying to track

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her down, we finally did, and we got her to

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agree to work with us on this book. And we

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spent three years interviewing her, interviewing her friends and colleagues,

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and doing research on the book and pitching it. And

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let me explain a little bit about the world of

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pitching a book. So I've never written novels, so I

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can't even speak to what it's like for when you're

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writing fiction. But when you're writing nonfiction, you normally have

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to submit a proposal for consideration, and that proposal is

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basically a shorter version of the book.

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Speaker 2: It's it.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's more to it than that, but you

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basically have to have every chapter of the book completely

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mapped out and partially written, and you usually have to

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have at least one chapter fully written out. You have

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to have a more marketing plan, you have to have

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you know, you have to talk about what your goals

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and themes and everything for the book is going to be.

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And it's a long process and it's a hard process.

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And speaking as the co authors of two different of

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two published books, you should know that we have gone

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through this process six or seven times. There's you know,

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you throw out proposals, but you don't always get offers.

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But we felt very very strongly about this book, and

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our initial round of pitches were met with some reluctance

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because the publishing industry was feeling this and this was

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last year, was feeling that maybe trans stories were too controversial,

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maybe the public was turning against this sort of thing,

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you know, in the wake of the Trump election and everything.

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So we weren't getting offers. And then we retold it

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and sent it out again this year and we started

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getting a lot of interest with it. Actually, in fact,

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more interest from this proposal than from any other proposal

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we've ever had out there. At one point there were

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four publishers who were expressing interest and our agent was

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thinking about trying to get them into a sort of

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you know, pitching battle or whatever in the end. But

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like I said, it's very difficult right now, nonfiction publishing

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is in free fall. Nobody understands what sells. The only

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things that seem to sell are like celebrity books or

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political books written by political insiders, but you know, everything else.

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And there have been several high profile trands biographies that

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were published in the last couple of years. One was

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Marsha P. Johnson's, one was Candy Darlings, and they did

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they didn't actually sell all that well, so it was

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an uphill battle. At one point I said to Lorenzo,

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was like, I feel like I'm swimming up a waterfall

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trying to get this done. But we believed in it,

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and we and there were there were publishers showing interest,

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so we just kept plugging away and plugging away. This

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was a very hard process for Rachel because everything I

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just said to you about the industry, about the culture,

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about where we are right now, and the difficulties of

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selling a nonfiction book that was kind of falling on

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deaf ears every time I tried to explain it to her,

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because from her perspective, she felt like it was a

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statement on her life, like she was taking the slowness

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of this process somewhat personally. Long story short, we last

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month we fielded two offers from publishers. They were not

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lucrative offers, but they were very you know, the publishers

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were excited, and the fact that we were able to

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get these offers in this market right just insane, insane,

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and we were ready to sign with one of them,

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the one who made the better offer. When Rachel she bounced.

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Basically she found the whole process too, I guess, demoralizing

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in a certain way, like her whole life was put

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on a on a on display, and and and we

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had to pitch it. Like I think in her mind

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she thought people were just going to line up and

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and just throw money at us. And you should understand

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that we in agreement with Rachel that we were splitting

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the advance with her, so she had a financial stake

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in this. She was not happy, She was not happy

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with the author with the offer, and away just walked

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away from it, completely, cut off, cut off contact with us.

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After three years. Yeah, let me you can get your

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I'm not going to cut you off. But I always

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want to say this was painful, beyond painful, and I'm

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I'm not going to bad mouth her, but it was very,

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very disappointing, and I want to reiterate she loved what

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we wrote. This was not a bad her not believing

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in the process. I mean she cried when she read

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the proposal. She cried when she read the piece in

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the Inquirer. So this wasn't about creative differences. It wasn't

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about her walking away from something that she felt wasn't

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in her best interest. She just you know, didn't think

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it was worth her time, so to speak. And we

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felt we needed to tell you because we put ourself.

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We stuck our necks out. As I said, this is

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like our seventh book proposal. We don't go around telling

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everyone when we're because you don't know if these things

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are going to work out.

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Speaker 2: That's because we believe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not only that, but we felt like we need

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to drum up interest, We need to be out there

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telling people that we're working on this. So we stuck

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our neck out and now this book is not happening,

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even though we did get the offers right. So anyway,

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I thought you needed to know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, writing a book, pitching a TV show

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or a movie or anything it's so much work that

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people don't know. People don't know. That's why sometimes you

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see you producers say, you know, it took us five

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years to get this show. You know, someone to agree on,

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you know, saying yes this show or movie or book.

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If you're not very very famous like Barbara Streis and

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line them Ali for example, or or the show Obama.

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You know, people are not lining up to sign up

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with you for anything. Believe me, you.

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Speaker 1: We never went into this thinging it was you really

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have to, because we.

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Speaker 2: Know how it works and how hard you have to

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work on getting a book published. Again, if you're not

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Michelle Obama is, you really have to work hard. You

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have to convince this people. And when it comes to books,

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books is specifically there's a window there and if you

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miss that window, then it's gone. Uh, they have no

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interest anymore. And sometimes they have slots like like a

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publisher will say, okay, we'll have well, we're gonna publish

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five books this this semester this year, and then they

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you know, if you're not one one of those books

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or or whatever they want to publish that, then they

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pass and then you move on to the next one.

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It's just and then the whole political thing. Also, you know, people.

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Speaker 1: Were scared of looking at LGBTQ stories when we first

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started pitching this in like twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: So when we talk to Rachel about this book, we

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were very clear from the beginning that you know, we're

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here to tell your story.

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Speaker 1: We're not here to make money.

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Speaker 2: We're not here to make money. I want to tell

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you that we're not here to make money. And because

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this is how it works. And the thing is that

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when you get a book published, you might not make

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a lot of money, but there's potential there to have

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that book. You know, I don't know, pitch as a

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TV show, a documentary or something. I mean there's potential

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there after you get the book published. So sometimes you

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publish a book not because of the money, but because

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it's going to be out there published and things can

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happen after that. So anyway, it you know, it's it's

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it's a lot of stress. It's it's it's it's it's

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not a funny, uh a fun process at all. It's

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very stressful. You don't know what's going to happen.

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Speaker 1: You know, you ruin my health this year. I'll be perfect.

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The stress of this really had an effect on my.

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Speaker 2: Thomas specifically has been working on this for three years

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and it's just hard. It's as hard. And when we

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finally and I give him a lot of credit for that,

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because we got two offers, which is a maroquette.

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Speaker 1: You know, I will state for the record that getting

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those offers in this market, yes times, what I'm telling

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this story is honestly one of the greatest professional achievements

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of my life to actually get offers, because it for

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a really long time, it didn't look like it was

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going to happen.

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Speaker 2: So so and I give him a lot of credit,

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and I hope he keeps that in mind that he

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worked trying, He worked really really hard, and we only

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got offers because of him. But then, you know, after

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we got two offers, we were excited about one offer

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and then she decided not to do it anymore.

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Speaker 1: So that was she write no context completely.

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Speaker 2: So it was heartbreaking.

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Speaker 1: So it was heartbreaking.

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Speaker 2: And we want to put this out there because we

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mentioned this book so much for you guys, and you know,

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to give you a little understanding, a little bit of

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you know, how things work. So if you write a book,

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believe me, it's a long process. It's not just writing

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a book. Type in the book and giving to somebody

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and say yes, we're going to publish. It's a lot

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of work. It's trying to convince a whole bunch of

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a whole group of people that that book is worth publishing. Yeah,

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it's a long process and you really have to believe

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in it, which we did. But we were also relying

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on her to be part of it. And when you know,

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you decide not to do it.

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Speaker 1: Just as an explanation, I mean, there was no question

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of us continuing without her. The pitch. Every time a

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publisher came back to us with a question or expressing

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an interest, they all had the same question, how involved

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is Rachel? Because they want they wanted her involvement, they

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wanted and part of the pitch that you know in

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the proposal was that we said that Rachel would be

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available to promote the book, that she would do interviews

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for the book and that sort of thing. But if

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if she's not doing that, then you know, there can

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be no book. Not in the current atmosphere, right, I

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have all this material on Rachel. I have forty hours

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of interviews. I'm not saying there will never be a book.

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But this project is dead for now.

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Speaker 2: The bottom line here is that, and the takeaway here

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for everyone, even if you're not involved in this project obviously,

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is that you know, you take a lot of nose

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before you take a yes, and you just have to

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get used to it right and if you and if

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you're not ready for that, then you fall apart. That's

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what happened with her. You just have to keep going.

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And you know, it's a process. It's a very stressful process.

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You have to work really hard to get that there,

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and you know, we did and then we did it.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, we're working on There was a book proposal put

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aside several years back so that we could work on

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this Rachel book because we thought it was more timely.

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So we're returning to a previous proposal. It is about

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movie costumes, and hopefully someday we'll have an announcement about

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that one. As always, you just pick up the pieces

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and rode on exactly. All right, So let's take a

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short break and we'll be back and we're going to

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talk about the Pride Night controversy.

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Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

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Speaker 1: We're back, and we're going to talk a little bit

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about the Pride Night controversy sleep in the Nation, So

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it became what a surprise, let's start with this. Last year,

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tonight is actually Pride Night for the Phillies. We won't

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be going because we're going out to dinner for my birthday.

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But last year we did go on my birthday for

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Pride Night. It was the first time I had ever

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been at a Pride Night. I've been going to Phillies

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games since I was you know, for as long as

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I can remember, since I was a child, but I'd

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never gone on a Pride Night And it was lovely

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and revelatory because, you know, the the lights in the

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stadium were lit up rainbow, and every time you looked

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at the JumboTron there was some queer person up there.

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There was you know, trans people and lesbians and gay

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people every single time and like gaying it up. You know,

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there were drag queens and everything, and just that they

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had the choir, the Philadelphia Oh yeah, they had the

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Philadelphia Gay Men's Choir. It just it was lovely as

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a Phillies fan and a baseball fan to have that

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moment of community in a space where you never felt

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like you could have that moment of community. And I'll

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say something here that people they never like hearing this,

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But you know, Lorenzo and I are gen X came

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in we are gay men of a certain age, and

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we didn't we didn't come of age. You know, a

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world as accepting of us as it is now. So

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to go to a baseball in a stadium as a

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gay couple on a non pride night means that, yes,

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you are kind of tempering your behavior. You're not gonna, like,

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you know, get all affectionate in the stands unless you're

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sure you're you know, that's just that's just the reality

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of it. I'm sorry. We Lorenzo and I also don't

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walk down the street holding hands. We've never kissed in public.

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Like we're not of that generation and I and very

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much even no matter your generation, a major league sporting

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event is generally not the place for queer expression of

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any kind.

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Speaker 2: And to be honest with you, even when it's Pride day,

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I don't feel that comfortable doing certain things, you know,

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like holding hands or whatever. I mean, that's just see,

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that's me because that's how I grew up, never holding

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hands or never showing any affection. I mean even even

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in the presence of family members. It's sometimes things have changed,

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believe me. But but we are.

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Speaker 1: Of the generation, and like I said, this isn't just

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a generational thing. I think young queer people also don't

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feel like a Major League Baseball game is necessarily a

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place where they can make out with their girlfriend or whatever.

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Not that you know, you should be watching the game

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and cheering the game. It's not. It's not a place

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to make out. But even so, any sort of affection

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or or queerness or expression of yourself you sort of

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have to temper it. You sort of have to make

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sure am I okay here. That's just the reality being

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queer in the world, and even more so in twenty

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twenty six. So I just want to say I loved

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Pride Night, and I I think I felt more of

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a sense of pride and community there than I did

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at the most recent Pride event, you know, Pride Parade

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or whatever that I went to, maybe because because of

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the setting. The setting itself wasn't gay. The setting was,

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if anything, ragingly heteronormative. So to see that sort of

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queerness and that acceptance of queerness, and let's be clear here,

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it's a stadium of forty five thousand people, maybe maybe

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five percent of them were queer, and everybody else just

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had to deal with all that queerness around them and

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there was no problem. I mean, Philly is not the

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most progressive called, you know, socially progressive city in the world,

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but it still is progressive and liberal and there was

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not a problem. So this week San Francisco, and that's

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that this is part of the issue here is because

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San Francisco was like the queer capital of the United States.

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It always has been, right and said, the San Francisco

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Giants had a bride night and the players were given

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caps to where, you know, giants caps that had a

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rainbow logo, you know, had the Giants logo rendered in

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the progressive rainbow flag, and several of the players wound

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up writing over the logo in silver marker referring to

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a Bible quote about the rainbow covenant with God.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the genesis whatever quote quote or whatever

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you yeah, about God creating the rainbow as a sign

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of you know whatever.

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Speaker 1: Covenant with his people. Which, Okay, this is where we're

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going to get into some stuff. For one, Okay, I

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think those players were obnoxious assholes for doing this.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, But.

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Speaker 1: When I read what the verse was, I was like, well,

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you know, honestly, honestly, I think their dicks. But that

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could have been way more offensive, Like they could have

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written a verse about man shall not lie with man,

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or about sodom and gomoor or whatever. But it was

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just about trying, as quote a Christian to reclaim the

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rainbow or to you, you know whatever. I think in

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terms of protest, in terms of Christian based protest, they

358
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could have been a lot worse than what they did.

359
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I'm not excusing it. I am offended by it. I

360
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am hurt by it. I am hurt that Major League

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Baseball cannot bring itself to to to welcome a queer

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fan like me.

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Speaker 2: I feel bad for the queer people who love sports,

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for example, right because one, because you know, you feel

365
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like you have no space, no place, uh and and

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it's just and it's it's it's bad. It's horrible. Actually,

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I feel bad for all the for all these people. Yeah,

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it's a horrible thing. And you know you can't just

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leave it alone. You have to make some sort of

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statement like that that clearly you know you just want

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to offend people. Because that's just to offense.

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Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not suggesting that what they did was

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an offensive. I'm just saying at least at least they

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they sort of took the path of least resistance and

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just did a relatively inoffensive take on the rainbow. Like

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I said, I lived through the eighties and nineties. The

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rhetoric could have gotten a lot uglier than that. They

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really would have called me an abomination before the Lord

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or whatever. Now.

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Speaker 2: Also, I just want to add that it's not just

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these you know, football it's unfolding. Yeah, it's now become

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a thing soccer players in Europe. Here in the United States,

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male and female. My I should dad, you know, just

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not wanting to wear anything pride, you know.

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Speaker 1: Because and there was a minor league gave in York,

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PA last night, York, Pennsylvania where the team wound up

387
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before fitting the game because they refused to wear pride gear.

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So this, this gets into some complicated questions because there

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is a big, big, big, big big part of me

390
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,119
that does not agree with the idea of forcing people

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to wear pride gear.

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Speaker 2: I agree with you.

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Speaker 1: That's that's when you start getting into all right, I'm gonna.

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I just feel as queer people and people on the

395
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left generally, we've never been very good at picking our battles.

396
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And a prime example of this is the the wedding

397
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:17,000
cake battle, right. I remember when that was unfolding and

398
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suing all these bakers, and I was like, this is

399
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only going to anger the right wing more and now

400
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they have a rallying cry, and sure enough they did.

401
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And that actually, all of those lawsuits and that crazy

402
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,839
bitch in her corduroy skirts that I can't even remember,

403
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,599
Kim Davis, she wound up becoming a cause celeb on

404
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,279
the right and it helped fuel entire political campaigns. And

405
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:45,359
for what so that a dozen queer couples could force

406
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a baker to make them a cake. I don't think

407
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that was a battle worth fighting. And it became a

408
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national cause celeb and it has it became a stand

409
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in for just queer people being demanding and annoying and

410
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,839
blah blah blah blah blah. And you see the same

411
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:08,079
thing here. Senator Josh Holly came out today. Jd Vance

412
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came out and made a statement about this. It is

413
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only going to grow right and I think major league Baseball,

414
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and I will say Major League Baseball came out and

415
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denounced the Giants for acting this way and made a

416
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:25,720
very firm statement. But again, you were getting into forcing

417
00:23:25,759 --> 00:23:29,720
people to wear rainbows. I mean, how would we feel

418
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if people were forced to wear crucifixes, you know, or

419
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pro life messages or anything like that.

420
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Speaker 2: It's I.

421
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Speaker 1: Don't think this is the path to acceptance. I just don't.

422
00:23:43,279 --> 00:23:46,200
I think you should have pride nights. Absolutely, you should

423
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,079
have Pride nights. I think the team and the organization

424
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should welcome and support any queer people. But forcing team

425
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members to wear that stuff that really does not sit

426
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well with me at all.

427
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Speaker 2: I have a problem with forcing people to to wear something,

428
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000
especially because they're saying, well, it's a uniform policy, you

429
00:24:05,079 --> 00:24:08,400
have to wear it. But again, as you said, I

430
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:12,319
mean a pro life hat or a Chris effects Christian

431
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,079
hat or whatever would you wear it? Would you say

432
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:16,759
yes to it?

433
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Speaker 1: A star of David anybody? I mean, I realized that

434
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queerness isn't a religion.

435
00:24:20,799 --> 00:24:25,279
Speaker 2: But I'm actually I I don't look for acceptance anymore.

436
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,680
I mean I'm always dead. That hasn't happened yet. I yeah,

437
00:24:30,759 --> 00:24:33,319
I gave up on acceptance. I want tolerance. I want

438
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,440
you to I want you, motherfucker to accept that I exist,

439
00:24:36,599 --> 00:24:39,799
that I have the right to exist, and that I

440
00:24:39,839 --> 00:24:41,880
have that I have the right to live my life

441
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,599
the way I feel. Saying motherfucker anyway, anyway, it effects

442
00:24:46,599 --> 00:24:50,279
are rating anyway. My point is that I'm not looking

443
00:24:50,319 --> 00:24:54,640
for your acceptance. I'm looking I want your tolerance. I

444
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,680
want you, just always the case, to understand that I

445
00:24:57,799 --> 00:24:59,839
have the right to live the way I want to

446
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:04,000
my life. So back to Friday at Friday Night or

447
00:25:04,039 --> 00:25:07,640
whatever at a stadium. I accept them to have those events.

448
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:08,960
I think they yeah, right up.

449
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Speaker 1: To rainbow, put up the rainbow flag by in my yard.

450
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Speaker 2: But if you play it doesn't want to wear the hat,

451
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:15,920
then why he should.

452
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Speaker 1: Not be forced to whatever, Because then what you're doing

453
00:25:18,039 --> 00:25:22,400
is you're you're forcing situations like this. Yes where listen,

454
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if those players walked out on the field in basic

455
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,559
San Francisco Giants gear, without the rainbow and without the

456
00:25:28,599 --> 00:25:32,519
Bible messages, people would have noticed, but the queer people

457
00:25:32,559 --> 00:25:35,519
in attendance would not have been hurt or offended by that.

458
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,720
I think so when you force players to do this,

459
00:25:39,279 --> 00:25:42,640
they are in response going to become even more offensive

460
00:25:42,839 --> 00:25:45,839
in their response, and you're hurting queer people.

461
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,799
Speaker 2: That's that's where.

462
00:25:47,599 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 1: I stand on this, and I realized that not a

463
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,319
lot of queer people think that a lot. I mean,

464
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,400
I'm standing sort of in opposition in my community because

465
00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,200
I think the general community line is, well, screw those guys,

466
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,880
they should wear the rainbow and up. And I'm like,

467
00:26:01,319 --> 00:26:03,680
I don't really think that's how it works.

468
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 2: It's complicated because back to the wedding cake thing. I mean,

469
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,440
you saying, all right, well, we shouldn't force these people

470
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,400
to bike a cake for us. But at the same time,

471
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,680
you can't start, you know, adding people to the list

472
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,839
of people you don't want to bake a kate, you

473
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,079
know for. So it's complicated because then you're going to add, what,

474
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,039
I'm not baking a cake for a black person, an

475
00:26:24,039 --> 00:26:27,440
Asian person or whatever. Then you start adding you know so,

476
00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:33,759
and so it's complicated. When do you stop with that?

477
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,079
When do you allow them to do whatever they want

478
00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:36,359
to do.

479
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:40,559
Speaker 1: I think you need to weigh the potential for backlashs

480
00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:44,680
at least somewhat, And again people don't like hearing that.

481
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,200
But my issue with the left in this country with

482
00:26:48,279 --> 00:26:52,759
liberals in this country is that they had this fantasy

483
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,519
of quote unquote winning and all of those people who

484
00:26:57,559 --> 00:27:01,839
exist in opposition, and let's be clear, are here violent,

485
00:27:02,319 --> 00:27:06,519
deep opposition to liberalism exists in this country, and it's growing.

486
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,720
And there's this sense among the left that if we

487
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:14,359
just force those people out or whatever, we will win

488
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:18,559
and social progress will happen. And No, every time you

489
00:27:18,759 --> 00:27:22,759
force those forty million people who voted for Trump, they're

490
00:27:22,799 --> 00:27:26,680
not going away, okay. And my point is not, oh,

491
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,079
you have to learn to live with them, that's not it,

492
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,720
but you have to come up with more effective ways

493
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,359
of countering them. We have a crazy twenty two pound

494
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,880
cat who is rolling around and now he's starting to

495
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,880
bite us on this.

496
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,640
Speaker 2: Day, jacking the equipment.

497
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,680
Speaker 1: Anyway, Do you want to wrap this up or do

498
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:44,720
you have anything more to say?

499
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 2: No? I think as I said, I think those events

500
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,119
should happen. I think Pride Day, Pride night, Pride, whatever, love.

501
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,799
Speaker 1: Yet, dinner bro, the community, they should happen.

502
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,559
Speaker 2: They they in fact, they we should force these those

503
00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:00,759
I think you should forth their absolutely pole to wear

504
00:28:00,799 --> 00:28:04,440
something during those events. No, I say no to that

505
00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:08,519
because I wouldn't be wearing certain hats if I was fortune.

506
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,559
Speaker 1: Like I said, the blowback is now becoming more virulent,

507
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:15,000
and you've got the freaking vice president weighing in on this.

508
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:16,799
Speaker 2: I know you have the Vice president saying, you know,

509
00:28:16,839 --> 00:28:19,240
Trump one, we don't have to do this anymore. Or

510
00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,880
then you have all these right wing public figures say

511
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,000
I'll pay all the fines, you know, let them do

512
00:28:24,079 --> 00:28:26,480
it all right, I'll front the money so that they

513
00:28:26,599 --> 00:28:27,519
keep their hatreds.

514
00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:29,839
Speaker 1: They're not going to go away because you want them to.

515
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,200
They're just not. So you have to figure out effective

516
00:28:34,279 --> 00:28:38,559
ways of countering them and forcing And let's face it,

517
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,000
I will never forget. My brother's a big Phillies fan

518
00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:43,039
and he's also gay too, And you know, you love

519
00:28:43,079 --> 00:28:45,279
your Phillies, you love those boys. And he said, yeah,

520
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:47,759
but have those guys voted MAGA And you just know it.

521
00:28:47,839 --> 00:28:49,759
Speaker 2: I know that's the heart.

522
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: That's the hard part of all major Yeah, that's the

523
00:28:52,279 --> 00:28:54,559
hard part of it, is that you love your boys,

524
00:28:54,599 --> 00:28:58,279
But then you know they're all millionaires and most of

525
00:28:58,319 --> 00:28:59,680
them are concernatives.

526
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:00,359
Speaker 2: Of them gay people.

527
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,119
Speaker 1: So I'm not I don't have illusions about that. But

528
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,559
I think Major League Baseball as an organization should support

529
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:16,799
its queer fans, but they should not expect individual players

530
00:29:16,839 --> 00:29:19,240
to come out and and they should certainly not force

531
00:29:19,319 --> 00:29:22,640
those players to show. Yes, well, that's not support. I

532
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,920
think you're forcing them to wear a rainbow. That's not support, right,

533
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:27,119
that's domination.

534
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:29,799
Speaker 2: I think that's the part that we need to focus

535
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:34,279
on money and gave people have money just like anybody else. Yeah,

536
00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:37,559
so we need to focus on that. Where are we

537
00:29:37,599 --> 00:29:40,640
spending our money? And these organizations know that we have

538
00:29:40,759 --> 00:29:43,039
the money to spend and if they don't want to

539
00:29:43,079 --> 00:29:46,160
support us, then we don't support them. That that I

540
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,680
believe in. I believe in doing that, fighting these companies,

541
00:29:50,799 --> 00:29:55,000
organizations and clubs or whatever uh to force them to

542
00:29:55,039 --> 00:30:00,400
support us. Forcing some jackass who homophobe jack us to

543
00:30:00,799 --> 00:30:03,119
you know, wear a rainbow and hat. No, I'm not

544
00:30:03,119 --> 00:30:03,640
going to do that.

545
00:30:03,799 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: Some guy who only went to Christian College on a scholarship.

546
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:07,279
Speaker 2: Now, I.

547
00:30:09,079 --> 00:30:11,559
Speaker 1: Never saw black people until he played a major League

548
00:30:11,559 --> 00:30:14,920
baseball game. And you can't force someone like that. They're

549
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:19,039
just gonna, well, come on, that's a description.

550
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,079
Speaker 2: There are anyway, yes.

551
00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:26,160
Speaker 1: Hicks in major League baseball. All right, So let's everyone's

552
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:26,759
gonna get mad at me.

553
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: Oh, yes, I don't even care.

554
00:30:28,359 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: I don't care. I'm allowed to be mad at these people.

555
00:30:31,119 --> 00:30:32,519
All right, So let's take a quick break and we're

556
00:30:32,519 --> 00:30:34,839
going to come back and talk all about Widow's Bay.

557
00:30:37,799 --> 00:30:40,160
We're back, and now we're going to spoil the finale

558
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:44,759
of Widows Bay, which we have the show. Yeah, we've

559
00:30:44,759 --> 00:30:47,200
been singing the praises of that show for the past

560
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,000
couple of podcasts, and like a lot of people, I'm

561
00:30:50,079 --> 00:30:52,200
kind of sorry we didn't get in on the ground floor.

562
00:30:52,519 --> 00:30:55,640
I watched the first couple of episodes, but I didn't

563
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,839
really realize until about the fourth episode, where I was like, oh,

564
00:31:00,079 --> 00:31:02,200
this is actually really good, and I kind of wish

565
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,880
we had started in on the on the beginning. Don't

566
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,279
you worry, though, because there will be season two, and

567
00:31:07,359 --> 00:31:10,599
like everybody else who writes about tell or talks about television,

568
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,279
we will be on board when that happens. This show

569
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,720
has exploded, and if you haven't watched it, yeah, it's

570
00:31:18,759 --> 00:31:22,319
my favorite news show of the year, and I will

571
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,240
admit if you haven't watched it. The first two episodes

572
00:31:26,359 --> 00:31:29,279
they're cute and quirky, but they don't necessarily it's really

573
00:31:29,359 --> 00:31:31,839
by the fourth episode, you're like, oh, okay, this is

574
00:31:32,519 --> 00:31:33,440
super inventive.

575
00:31:33,519 --> 00:31:35,599
Speaker 2: I think you don't know exactly what the show is

576
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,359
about watching the first and the second, but the writing

577
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,319
it's hilarious from from day one, from like I mean, yeah,

578
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,720
it's just funny. I love how it exploded. I'm on

579
00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:50,079
TikTok as you guys knew, and I love watching and

580
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:52,920
you know, listening to Matthew Reeves talk about how he

581
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:54,039
can't believe how.

582
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,839
Speaker 1: Big the show got. Yeah, and it's just adorable. It's

583
00:31:56,839 --> 00:31:58,880
just adorable. I think it caught them a little bit

584
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,119
off far a little so, all right, let's get into

585
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:07,559
this final episode, which I was correct, but I will

586
00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:10,319
also say it was a very common theory online and

587
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:11,920
I did not come up with it on my own,

588
00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:16,920
which is that Ruth, the secretary at city Hall, is

589
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:22,359
not the final right Westcott Warren line, and that she

590
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,200
had a secret baby and that baby was Tom's wife,

591
00:32:25,279 --> 00:32:28,799
which means Tom's son is the final member of that

592
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:31,119
family line, and if they want to break the curse,

593
00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:32,880
they're going to have to kill Tom's son.

594
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,119
Speaker 2: Well, I would go, well.

595
00:32:35,079 --> 00:32:37,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that's actually clever because they

596
00:32:37,319 --> 00:32:40,960
made that kid so unlikable that you're like, whoa, Oh.

597
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,119
Speaker 2: My god, those three kids, I want to murder them all.

598
00:32:44,279 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're terrible. So let me just say this. I

599
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,640
thought some of the energy went out of the show

600
00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:59,079
in these final two episodes, and they weren't quite on

601
00:32:59,119 --> 00:33:01,359
the level I would have liked for the show. They

602
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,039
weren't quite as funny as previous episodes, and they weren't

603
00:33:04,039 --> 00:33:06,920
really all that scary at all. They were just sort

604
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,680
of mostly just contemplate it. Like it was a lot

605
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,880
of Tom and Ruth sitting on Ruth's couch, and I mean,

606
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,240
some of the stuff Kay Callen was saying in those

607
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,000
scenes was absolutely hilarious. In fact, I think it was

608
00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:24,119
kind of interesting to get the perspective of someone who

609
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,799
grew up on a cursed island. You know, so her

610
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,799
morality is a little off, her view of what life

611
00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:32,440
is supposed to be like is way off, but she's

612
00:33:32,519 --> 00:33:36,079
basically a decent, kind person. She just doesn't realize how

613
00:33:36,079 --> 00:33:36,839
fucked up she is.

614
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,599
Speaker 2: See. I love that, I guess because ever since I

615
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,759
was a little boy, I used to listen to love

616
00:33:41,839 --> 00:33:44,000
to listen to my grandparents talk about their lives, and

617
00:33:44,079 --> 00:33:46,880
you know, their experience and showy pictures. So that whole

618
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,279
episode I loved. I love I love her telling all

619
00:33:49,279 --> 00:33:53,079
those stories, showing the stories were weird, but I love it.

620
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: She dated a guy who got bit by an animal

621
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,039
and he turned into that animal, and uh, it's just

622
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:03,480
fascinating and funny and created. They had her unpacked the

623
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:08,840
whole trolley problem in a way that actually made a

624
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,320
certain amount of sense, even though it would not be

625
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,039
considered the moral choice. But again, I think it's sort

626
00:34:14,039 --> 00:34:16,679
of unpacked. She's a decent person, but your morality is

627
00:34:16,679 --> 00:34:18,519
going to be fucked up if you never got to

628
00:34:18,599 --> 00:34:25,280
leave a cursed island, right, which brings me to I

629
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:30,960
don't want this to sound like criticism, but this is

630
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,039
what has to happen with the story like this. If

631
00:34:33,039 --> 00:34:34,480
you're not going to do it all in one season,

632
00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:38,239
if it's going to become a series, it becomes. And

633
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,519
I think that's what I felt in these final two episodes,

634
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,159
because you know the previous episodes there they would cycle

635
00:34:46,199 --> 00:34:49,199
through these various sort of genres of horror. So there

636
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,079
was like a sea hag, and there was a killer clown,

637
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:57,159
and there was what else was there? There was the

638
00:34:57,159 --> 00:34:59,880
the serial Killer, the you know, the Halloween guy that

639
00:35:00,079 --> 00:35:03,280
Jason Kay. So they would cycle through all of these

640
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,599
different things, but now it feels like they have to

641
00:35:07,719 --> 00:35:14,159
establish lore. And when they got to that bunker or

642
00:35:14,159 --> 00:35:21,079
whatever the shelter, it felt very lost the series TV

643
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:25,039
show Lost, And obviously maybe not, that's not obvious, But

644
00:35:25,079 --> 00:35:26,599
to me, I thought it was obvious that that was

645
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,239
a deliberate homage, just like when they were out on

646
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:31,639
the boat in the middle of the night, they were

647
00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:34,880
clearly homage. It was an homage to Jaws. There's homages

648
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,079
to all kinds of horror films and suspense films and

649
00:35:38,119 --> 00:35:40,800
everything like that. So you know, you go down into

650
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:45,639
this bunker, underground bunker that has secret industrial movies, and

651
00:35:45,679 --> 00:35:49,000
there's all this weird like signage and everything and voices

652
00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:51,480
coming over the speaker that is as lost.

653
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 2: As Lost gets. I thought, what's awesome because we lost? Yeah,

654
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:55,920
and I agree.

655
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: I agree with that because also so many shows have

656
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,400
tried I had to mimic Lost, and they always wound

657
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,079
up as cheap copies. But if there's any show that

658
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,679
almost has earned the right to have a couple loss,

659
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,159
I mean, they are on a cursed island that they

660
00:36:13,199 --> 00:36:18,159
can't leave. I mean, the comparisons are right there. But

661
00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:22,480
and again with Ruth sitting there, paging through her and

662
00:36:22,559 --> 00:36:26,199
just telling stories, and you're getting the sense of this

663
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:31,239
island having lore. What happens with that is and it

664
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:33,719
happens with all these shows that happened with Lost. The

665
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:39,440
lore cannot sustain itself. It cannot hold up. And that's fine,

666
00:36:39,559 --> 00:36:42,639
because I don't think you should look at Widow's Bay

667
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,000
the same way you would look at a show like Lost.

668
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:48,719
It's a comedy horror show. There's a certain lightness to it.

669
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,079
There's a certain sense that you shouldn't take it all

670
00:36:52,119 --> 00:36:58,320
too seriously. But I was sitting there going, Okay, there's

671
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,880
a lot of elderly people in this community. How come

672
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,320
nobody really knows anything about this past where they were

673
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:10,000
evidently sacrificing people to this creature under the island and

674
00:37:10,039 --> 00:37:13,840
it was they they shot movies about it, they built

675
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,920
bunker like obviously it was sort of codified, and it

676
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,920
was something that people knew about. And those films, they

677
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,320
can't be more than sixty years old. And you look

678
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,360
at someone like Ruth, who's like she said she was

679
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:30,239
eighty four, Like, well, the other question is I mean,

680
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,480
like the son Evan, like he literally has never left

681
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,000
the island, and in seventeen years there's you. I mean,

682
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:39,159
how do you explain that?

683
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:40,159
Speaker 2: Right?

684
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 1: How do you explain that? And if everybody on the

685
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:49,599
island over a certain age knows this, I guess if

686
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:51,599
you try and unpack this too much, they're right off

687
00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:53,519
the coast of Massachusetts. And you mean to tell me

688
00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:56,760
there's a whole community of people who cannot leave that island, right,

689
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:01,199
wouldn't that be known or understood? I mean, it's like

690
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,239
a three hundred year old community. You don't like any

691
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:05,079
of this, I could tell you're getting antsy with it.

692
00:38:05,079 --> 00:38:07,639
Speaker 2: It's just that it's trying to make sense out of

693
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,559
something that doesn't have much sense.

694
00:38:10,639 --> 00:38:13,599
Speaker 1: Doesn't make money. If they're going forward, they are going

695
00:38:13,639 --> 00:38:17,079
to have to I mean they are. That's clearly where

696
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:20,199
it's moving towards us that they're going. In fact, Katie Dippold,

697
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:22,400
who is the creator of the show, she said, what

698
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,320
I love is that it's and actually I don't disagree

699
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,880
with this. She said, it's creating like this whole mythology

700
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:30,760
that we can explore. She said, I'd love to do

701
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,280
a mini series just about whatever happened in that inn

702
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,320
or whoever ugly wore tense is. I mean, they have

703
00:38:37,519 --> 00:38:40,880
established that there's a deep lore here, even if they

704
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,239
haven't unpacked it all that much. And now they as

705
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,559
they unpack it, they're going to come up, you know,

706
00:38:47,559 --> 00:38:49,119
they're going to face the issue of how do you

707
00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:50,000
make it all makes.

708
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,920
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll have more episodes like the Betty Gopin one.

709
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:55,840
I'm hoping that they, you know, they go back and

710
00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:59,480
talk about whatever happened in the past on the island, right,

711
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:01,719
they have time now.

712
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 1: To Yeah, I mean there's a lot that they can unpack.

713
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,360
What else, what do you I just want to say.

714
00:39:08,559 --> 00:39:09,960
One of the things I do want to say, Jeff

715
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,880
Hiller I said last week that they're not giving that

716
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,880
guy something to do. And I laughed so hard at

717
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,199
his freak out. It was just so well delivered and

718
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:20,800
the timing and it was so good.

719
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,199
Speaker 2: He's funny.

720
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:28,519
Speaker 1: He is funny. I I don't know. I was surprised

721
00:39:28,519 --> 00:39:31,320
that the sheriff tried to kill Ruth. I actually thought

722
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:32,480
it was going to be wick.

723
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: Right, Well, makes sense, I thought made sense.

724
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: I mean, he's desperate to save his child. I wonder

725
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:45,039
where that's I kind of thought like the episode was

726
00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:46,920
going to end with like him getting his wife on

727
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,760
a boat and just speeding off the island the next morning.

728
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,559
Speaker 2: I just, I just I love the silliness of it,

729
00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:54,400
like I do too, Like when he gives her a

730
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,559
tea with medication, like if she's the one, she's not

731
00:39:57,599 --> 00:40:00,199
gonna die. So it was funny because you think she

732
00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:01,000
she's dead and this.

733
00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:03,559
Speaker 1: She wakes up by now she wakes up.

734
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 2: And it's just hilarious. Yeah, it's just funny, funny, funny.

735
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:08,719
And I didn't make the connection that people were making

736
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,239
it online obviously that when the captain died or whatever,

737
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,159
that guy died, then she's the one now with the

738
00:40:15,519 --> 00:40:18,519
you know that's going to live forever, right, Ruth is

739
00:40:18,559 --> 00:40:22,159
gonna he kind of passed on to her. The whole

740
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:24,239
mortality thing.

741
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,920
Speaker 1: I don't know that that well, yeah, because other family members,

742
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,920
I mean, he had three hundred years of decebit. None

743
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,400
of those people were I guess immortal.

744
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: I don't think.

745
00:40:34,199 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't think his immortality is being granted to anyone.

746
00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:40,679
Speaker 2: Well, she didn't die with with anything, that's true, but

747
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:43,199
I mean she was shot and didn't die. You know,

748
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:45,000
I think.

749
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,599
Speaker 1: That's just he could be right. I mean, I've never

750
00:40:48,679 --> 00:40:52,679
heard this theory, but again, it wouldn't make sense because

751
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,840
uh oh, I see what you're saying now that he's dead.

752
00:40:57,519 --> 00:41:01,599
Speaker 2: She bested on to her the whole immortality thing because

753
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,119
you can see, like she goes up the stairs very quick,

754
00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:05,679
and she says, she's doing all these things now, and

755
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:06,519
if you and if you.

756
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good theory. I didn't think that.

757
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,519
Speaker 2: And if you remember the first episode, she's this old

758
00:41:11,599 --> 00:41:14,199
lady who can't remember anything, and now she can remember everything.

759
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:15,880
She can go up and down the stairs, she helps

760
00:41:16,119 --> 00:41:17,400
the neighbor. You know.

761
00:41:17,599 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 1: Like the interesting thing about this is I really thought

762
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,800
they were gonna kill Ruth Off because kay Callen is

763
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,039
ninety years old and it takes like three years to

764
00:41:25,079 --> 00:41:28,920
do these seasons, and are they really relying on her

765
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:30,960
living to then? I mean, I hate to be morbid

766
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,960
about it, but come on, yeah, anyway, I think that's

767
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,360
that's an interesting take.

768
00:41:35,519 --> 00:41:38,159
Speaker 2: I think she carries the whole immortality on.

769
00:41:38,199 --> 00:41:42,119
Speaker 1: Kay Callen being hale and hardy to shoot another season

770
00:41:42,119 --> 00:41:44,840
of this show. And that's the other thing. They have

771
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,079
been greenlit for a second season. But I really hope

772
00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:49,840
they don't do the Apple TV thing where we have

773
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:51,119
to wait three seasons for this.

774
00:41:51,079 --> 00:41:54,079
Speaker 2: Still now, like that the other show I forget the name.

775
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, plor of Us. I mean that show ended like

776
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,960
six eight months ago, and you know they're halfway through

777
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:03,280
writing the second seat.

778
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,199
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, come on, you forget about it.

779
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:09,039
Speaker 1: Yeah, the House of the Dragon comes back this weekend,

780
00:42:09,039 --> 00:42:11,239
and I am going to have to go back. I mean,

781
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,000
I have a general sense of where it ended, but

782
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,400
it's these long ass seasons just.

783
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,159
Speaker 2: You have to go back towatch the whole thing. And yeah,

784
00:42:21,199 --> 00:42:22,679
I hope not. I hope they don't wait that.

785
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: My one request for the next season is to bring

786
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,519
Betty Gilbin back in the present day as the descendant

787
00:42:28,559 --> 00:42:31,440
of Sarah Westcott Warrant. That would be awesome. I mean,

788
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:33,639
just make her a series regular. I want to see

789
00:42:33,679 --> 00:42:36,000
her dealing with Patricia. I want to see her dealing

790
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,800
with Rosemary. Tom needs a love interest. She would be perfect.

791
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,199
She would be absolutely perfect. And if you're not going

792
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,280
to do that, at least do more flashbacks with her.

793
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 2: But Patricia, my god.

794
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: Trician, Rosemary, they are just the MVP.

795
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: I know, I want to go back and watch everything again.

796
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:53,280
Just pay attention to her.

797
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, anything else anymore theories?

798
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 2: Now? I hate the kids and what them all did.

799
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,079
It was. It's interesting that the guy died in a basement.

800
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, they caused his death because they were such assholes.

801
00:43:06,239 --> 00:43:08,559
I guess you could say, Look, if you're sixteen years

802
00:43:08,599 --> 00:43:10,400
old and you've never left that island, yeah, you're going

803
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,400
to be kind of an asshole, a reckless asshole.

804
00:43:12,679 --> 00:43:15,679
Speaker 2: They are, all of them, that's three of them. What else?

805
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,920
I think that that it was just interesting.

806
00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:22,599
Speaker 1: Great cast, really really smart writing, really clever idea, and

807
00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:25,119
it's funny when it needs to be funny and scary

808
00:43:25,159 --> 00:43:28,039
when it needs to be scary, and that combination is

809
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,599
just not easy to pull off. Otherwise we see it

810
00:43:30,639 --> 00:43:31,159
more often.

811
00:43:33,079 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, I just think the writing is very

812
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:39,320
clever and funny and kind of you know, I hate

813
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,360
to put it this way, but kind of real. You know,

814
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,960
like the situations like you you see someone going through

815
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,760
the things they go through, right, if that happened to you,

816
00:43:48,039 --> 00:43:49,400
if that situation happened to you.

817
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:51,559
Speaker 1: What happened to those bitches that I know?

818
00:43:52,159 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 2: You know?

819
00:43:52,519 --> 00:43:55,840
Speaker 1: When they're all dead, don't they are like that, that

820
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,239
is something about the show, and I realized they're packing

821
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,239
all this stuff into it and they don't have time

822
00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:04,159
to let people react to things. But well, yeah, okay,

823
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,440
so Patricia was stalked by the Boogeyman and people knew

824
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,000
about it and it was confirmed and he was cremated

825
00:44:11,039 --> 00:44:14,000
and nobody reacted to that, like, there's no follow up

826
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,079
on that. I thought some of those women were going

827
00:44:16,159 --> 00:44:17,960
to be in the in the bunker or something, but

828
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,559
they just weren't. I don't think he killed them, and

829
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:23,079
nobody said anything about them getting killed.

830
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:24,559
Speaker 2: So yeah, we don't know, we have.

831
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:27,360
Speaker 1: It happened lots of loose ends, but that's why you

832
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:29,800
come back for another season, and that just means they

833
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,639
did a good job setting up their first season.

834
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:33,840
Speaker 2: So I love the show. I am. I'm going to

835
00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:34,159
watch it.

836
00:44:34,159 --> 00:44:38,800
Speaker 1: Again enticed, and I really really hope it's back before

837
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,000
I'm eighty years old, before I look like Ruth. All right,

838
00:44:44,079 --> 00:44:46,400
so that's it for this week. We'll be back next

839
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,800
week with whatever crosses our eyes or crosses our desks.

840
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:50,960
Until then, take care of yourselves, love you mean it,

841
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:51,920
but bye bye,