Speaker 1: Oh gee is folks, it should die. People say good
Speaker 1: money to see this movie. When they go out to
Speaker 1: a theater, they want cold sodas, hot popcorn in no monsters.
Speaker 1: In the Projection Booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.
Speaker 2: Got it off?
Speaker 1: Hey, folks, Welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Mike Waite. On this episode, I'm talking
Speaker 1: with Catherine cold Iron. We spoke with her a little
Speaker 1: while ago about her book Junk Film Why Bad Movies Matter.
Speaker 1: She is back talking about her latest book, out There
Speaker 1: in the Dark. It is a very interesting mix of
Speaker 1: personal essays with film criticism, and I highly recommend it.
Speaker 1: Make sure you follow Katherine over on the socials. Those
Speaker 1: are all available at our website Kcoldron dot com spelled
Speaker 1: just like it sounds letter k Coldron dot com. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much for listening, and I hope you enjoyed the interview.
Speaker 1: Catherine is great having you back on the show again.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited to talk to you about your new book.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I'm excited to hear what you thought of it.
Speaker 1: It's great. I was just talking with someone recently, de
Speaker 1: Harlan Wilson, about his latest book, which really does that
Speaker 1: thing of mixing more of personal with film studies, and
Speaker 1: I love how you're coming at things as well. How
Speaker 1: did you decide how you're going to write this book
Speaker 1: and the way that these essays were going to be shaped.
Speaker 2: I was in grad school and we read the book
Speaker 2: I Am Not Jackson Pollock by John Haskell, and Haskell
Speaker 2: does this thing where he invents scenes in between the
Speaker 2: scenes of psycho and touch of evil, and as soon
Speaker 2: as I read that, I went, I didn't know you
Speaker 2: could do that. I want to do that. That was
Speaker 2: the beginning of it, was thinking, Okay, what can I
Speaker 2: imagine around some films that I love that is not
Speaker 2: real but interesting to think about. And at the time
Speaker 2: I was already writing hybrid work in terms of like
Speaker 2: metatextual short stories and stuff. A lot of them were
Speaker 2: really terrible. But when I started combining memoir with some
Speaker 2: film or other, when I crashed those things together, the
Speaker 2: sparks that came out of it were really great.
Speaker 1: Some of the stories get really personal. Was there any
Speaker 1: fear in that or was it more of a liberating
Speaker 1: thing to write about stuff?
Speaker 2: It wasn't liberating. It was very normal because I'm not
Speaker 2: at all a private person, and to tell stuff like
Speaker 2: this to the public at large was something I wasn't
Speaker 2: really worried about at the time. Some of the stuff
Speaker 2: that I wrote about I had to think about pretty hard.
Speaker 2: Some of it was already there, and it was just
Speaker 2: unburdening ideas and memories that I had for a long time,
Speaker 2: and a lot of it was just stuff that itched
Speaker 2: at me and I couldn't figure out how to resolve
Speaker 2: it for myself. In my own mind. There's one that
Speaker 2: I still haven't written that's about the Shining, and there
Speaker 2: are memories about something in my life that I haven't
Speaker 2: quite managed to bring up enough to write that essay.
Speaker 2: I know what I want to say, but I don't
Speaker 2: one hundred percent know what to braid it with in
Speaker 2: terms of my own life. A lot of nonfiction writers
Speaker 2: say that writing is a lot like therapy, and I
Speaker 2: think that therapy has helped me be a writer, and
Speaker 2: I think that being a writer has helped me to
Speaker 2: be a person. But I don't think of writing as
Speaker 2: exactly a therapeutic practice. A lot of people do, though.
Speaker 1: Did the movies come first and then the rest of
Speaker 1: it comes later?
Speaker 2: It varies. The other thing is I wrote these a
Speaker 2: really long time ago, Like I spent six years or
Speaker 2: so trying to get this published when writing braided narratives
Speaker 2: and experimental memoi criticism was very new to me, And
Speaker 2: now it just feels like it's been hanging around for
Speaker 2: so long that I don't even remember the craft of it.
Speaker 1: What was it like going back and revisiting these after
Speaker 1: so many years.
Speaker 2: I was very satisfied with what I'd written, and I
Speaker 2: had worked hard enough on them at the time that
Speaker 2: it wasn't like I went back and said, Oh, I'm
Speaker 2: embarrassed or oh I need to fix this. It was
Speaker 2: just all there, all of a piece from the work
Speaker 2: that I had done and redone and worked on. And
Speaker 2: it also wasn't like I was going back to it. It
Speaker 2: was more as if I was submitting it to a
Speaker 2: press and waiting six months, and then in that six
Speaker 2: months I would send it to a couple other presses,
Speaker 2: and so it was this rolling period of no, no
Speaker 2: one wants this, no one wants this, And so it
Speaker 2: was always on my mind as I was publishing other
Speaker 2: things and writing other things, rather than something that I
Speaker 2: put down and then picked up again. Later.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I was wondering because for me, if I
Speaker 1: write something and I do put it down and come
Speaker 1: back later, sometimes it feels like another person wrote it.
Speaker 2: I found a draft of a novel that I wrote
Speaker 2: many years ago and abandoned that I'm using as paper,
Speaker 2: like I'm using the other side of those pages in
Speaker 2: my printer, and so every time it comes up out
Speaker 2: of the printer, I see this back page of page
Speaker 2: two hundred and sixteen of this novel, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I don't remember this at all. I remember the vague
Speaker 2: outline of it, and I remember writing it, and I
Speaker 2: remember how I felt when it was over. But I'm
Speaker 2: looking at the individual pages and I'm like, what when
Speaker 2: did I write that?
Speaker 1: Like a modern palumpest, I'll just use this other book
Speaker 1: to print my new stuff out on I love it.
Speaker 2: I do that a lot.
Speaker 1: So you're writing other things while you're shipping this out
Speaker 1: and seeing if anybody's going to bite. What other things
Speaker 1: are you writing at the same time.
Speaker 2: I finished this book in I think twenty eight eighteen,
Speaker 2: and between twenty eighteen and twenty twenty five, I wrote
Speaker 2: junk film, and I wrote a couple of the stories
Speaker 2: that are in Wire Mothers, and I published ceremonials in
Speaker 2: Junk Film and Wire Mothers, and I was also working
Speaker 2: on Last year, I finished a novel that I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's ever going to work out, but I
Speaker 2: had been writing that for the last couple of years,
Speaker 2: so mostly during the pandemic is when I wrote that book.
Speaker 2: A lot of this stuff hasn't seen the light of
Speaker 2: day yet, but some of it has in fact been
Speaker 2: published in between.
Speaker 1: Are you just writing all the time?
Speaker 2: No, I have long, long, fallow periods, and then I'll
Speaker 2: write like crazy for a couple of months at a time.
Speaker 1: Have you figured out what triggers you to get back
Speaker 1: to it?
Speaker 2: Oh, my gosh, I've been writing since I was a kid,
Speaker 2: like a ten year old kid. So I wish I knew,
Speaker 2: because then I would just trigger it a bunch, like okay,
Speaker 2: it's it's just right all the time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I figured you could patent that if you knew
Speaker 1: what it was was. So tell me a little bit
Speaker 1: about some of the films that you chose to write
Speaker 1: about with your other stories. Were there particular things that
Speaker 1: were like, oh, this is just a favorite, or this
Speaker 1: holds personal memories to me, Obviously the title of the book,
Speaker 1: out There in the Dark, as a reference to Sunset Boulevard.
Speaker 1: Is that a favorite? Like how does that play into things?
Speaker 2: That is a favorite? And it's a movie that I
Speaker 2: feel talks about celebrity in a way that not a
Speaker 2: lot of movies do, and star studies has always been
Speaker 2: one of the primary things that I'm interested in terms
Speaker 2: of film, and so Sunset Boulevard is great with that.
Speaker 2: It's great at talking about the faded glory of celebrities
Speaker 2: and then by implication, the still existing glory of celebrities
Speaker 2: you haven't faded away as Norman Desmond has. But it
Speaker 2: also talks about what it's like on that side of
Speaker 2: the screen and what it's like on this side of
Speaker 2: the screen with the audience. Is the point of the title,
Speaker 2: I am right here, out here in the dark. That's
Speaker 2: certainly part of it, Like me being an audience member
Speaker 2: is a through line for the book. The specific movies
Speaker 2: that I picked, I think all of them are good
Speaker 2: except for Alien from La, and most of them are
Speaker 2: well known except for Alien from La. Singing in the
Speaker 2: Rain seemed kind of a natural to talk about my
Speaker 2: teeth because singing in the Rain is one of those
Speaker 2: movies that is so beloved and rightly so, but it's
Speaker 2: also super, super artificial, and there's no way to get
Speaker 2: around that. And thinking about those two things being true
Speaker 2: at the same time was really interesting for me because
Speaker 2: I'm so wrapped up with authenticity. Apocalypse Now was the
Speaker 2: war movie that I wanted to write about above Platoon,
Speaker 2: because I think Apocalypse Now is weirder, and I thought
Speaker 2: about writing about Platoon, but Platoon is so hard, it's
Speaker 2: so difficult to watch, and Apocalypse Now is a lot
Speaker 2: more watchable. I picked the movie because I knew I
Speaker 2: wanted to write about them, but I didn't pick them
Speaker 2: without thought about what other ones I could have written about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the story of your teeth was absolutely fascinating to me,
Speaker 1: and it's something like I never really thought about. But
Speaker 1: they're with you all the time and you have to
Speaker 1: take care of them and maybe they'll take care of you.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, that was tripped down a rabbit hole I
Speaker 1: didn't know that I needed in my life.
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you for saying that. Yeah, people have talked
Speaker 2: to me a lot about that essay, like either you've
Speaker 2: never thought about it, or you have tooth trauma. The
Speaker 2: conversation about dental trauma is huge and it's ongoing, but
Speaker 2: it's very much buried underground because we're Americans and our
Speaker 2: teeth have to be perfect, no matter what the costs.
Speaker 1: Who ended up biting when it came to pudding.
Speaker 2: This out Autofocus is the press that finally said yes,
Speaker 2: and I am so grateful to them. It is a
Speaker 2: small press that was in Florida, now based in Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: and it's pretty much just this one guy, Michael Wheatness
Speaker 2: is and I told him when he said he was
Speaker 2: interested in the book, I said, okay, before we go
Speaker 2: any further, you should know that I'm a monster and
Speaker 2: I don't like to be edited at all. I'm a
Speaker 2: professional copy editor, so my copy's pretty clean, but in
Speaker 2: terms of editorial suggestions, like I wouldn't go down that
Speaker 2: road if I were you, just objectively, I am a
Speaker 2: bad person if someone tries to edit me. And he
Speaker 2: said that was okay. He found two typos and that
Speaker 2: was that.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So that's the story of the book, and I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful to him. I should also say, though Santa fe
Speaker 2: Writer's project flirted with the book for a little bit
Speaker 2: and gave me the idea to write an author's note,
Speaker 2: and I think the book would have been a lot
Speaker 2: less understandable to audiences if I hadn't added that author's note,
Speaker 2: So I'm very grateful for that rejection. I couldn't make
Speaker 2: up my mind whether to put like a disclaimer upfront,
Speaker 2: saying I don't actually know anything about Robert Tavall or
Speaker 2: whether Fred Astaire and Wie Reynolds met on the set
Speaker 2: of Singing in the Rain. I don't know any of this,
Speaker 2: but I thought it was fairly obvious that I'm not
Speaker 2: inside Robert Duvall's hit. No.
Speaker 1: Your authors No definitely helped that with that, and by
Speaker 1: that point in the book, I was used to where
Speaker 1: you're going with things, so I could understand it by
Speaker 1: that point. So, yeah, you do a really good job
Speaker 1: when it comes to the actual structure of the stories
Speaker 1: and walking us through almost like you're upping the stakes
Speaker 1: with each essay.
Speaker 2: One of the most important things I learned in grad
Speaker 2: school was that a story teaches you how to read it,
Speaker 2: and that's true for I think all narrative art. If
Speaker 2: you walk into a movie and it gives you these
Speaker 2: cues of okay, this is a horror movie. This is
Speaker 2: a Western and to put those fine posts in is
Speaker 2: so important and to leave them out is just going
Speaker 2: to make your work unreadable.
Speaker 1: Did you do the layout of the book?
Speaker 2: No, that's something I'm not skilled at the layout of
Speaker 2: the more unusual as the one where the text is
Speaker 2: offset in certain places. I did make suggestions for that,
Speaker 2: because you can only do so much in Microsoft Word.
Speaker 2: And then Michael took it to in Design and brought
Speaker 2: it back and was like, is this okay? Yeah, this
Speaker 2: is fine. My admonition was like, do your best. I
Speaker 2: know that in Design is not a perfect program, so
Speaker 2: whatever you can do to make it work is good.
Speaker 1: What were some of the biggest challenges with this other
Speaker 1: than just getting the damn thing published?
Speaker 2: Honestly, getting damn thing published was a big challenge. One
Speaker 2: of the challenges was trying to figure out when I
Speaker 2: was saying too much and when I was saying too
Speaker 2: little about basic background of movies. Do I give you
Speaker 2: enough information about who the stars of the Misfits are
Speaker 2: before I start to explain that their movie Startum is
Speaker 2: actually a liability in that film? Did I explain terminology
Speaker 2: of horsemanship enough in that essay to get you to
Speaker 2: figure out where we are and what we're doing with horses.
Speaker 2: And so I did have some help from friends who
Speaker 2: I'd send it to them and be like, is this
Speaker 2: at all comprehensible? Do you have an idea of how
Speaker 2: interesting and odd Montgomery Cliff is in this movie? And
Speaker 2: so that was a challenge. I was really thankful to
Speaker 2: readers for giving me that feedback. Another one was trying
Speaker 2: to figure out when I had gone too far into
Speaker 2: my own brain, whether that was in terms of the
Speaker 2: film criit that's in there or the memoir that's in there,
Speaker 2: and I know how it was, and if I can't
Speaker 2: convey it on the page, then I have failed, And
Speaker 2: success in that mode is really important to me, so
Speaker 2: wanted to make sure that I did that.
Speaker 1: I have to say The Misfits is on my list
Speaker 1: of shame. I still have yet to see it, but
Speaker 1: your essay definitely made me want to.
Speaker 2: So I've talked to people who really like The Misfits.
Speaker 2: I've even talk to people who it's their favorite movie
Speaker 2: and I don't understand. But I also approach that very
Speaker 2: carefully because I don't like I don't want to yuck anyone. ZM.
Speaker 2: And that's not the point of it. I think it's
Speaker 2: a failed movie, but I think the way that it's
Speaker 2: failed is more interesting than I am just covering it
Speaker 2: with shame. That's not what I want to do.
Speaker 1: Sometimes that's the most fascinating thing, Like why is this
Speaker 1: movie a failure? What happened along the way to damage it?
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about that a previe iFly, and
Speaker 2: it is one of the engines of junk film. It's
Speaker 2: what is it in this movie that's so interesting despite
Speaker 2: it not working at all? Yeah, it's a mystery. My
Speaker 2: favorite example actually is Skycaptain in the World of Tomorrow,
Speaker 2: which is the first movie that I saw that I
Speaker 2: was like, this is a failure, but it's an interesting failure.
Speaker 2: And when it was over, my husband and I looked
Speaker 2: at each other and we were like, what the heck, Like,
Speaker 2: why wasn't that better? Yeah? That movie, to me, it's
Speaker 2: not a success and it's a mystery.
Speaker 1: So funny that you say that. I literally just got
Speaker 1: that two days ago from Diabolic DVD because I'm like,
Speaker 1: I haven't seen this in forever, but I really want
Speaker 1: to dig into why this movie is so terrible, because,
Speaker 1: like you, I was like, what's wrong was it that
Speaker 1: it was all computer generated? Bringing back Laurence Olivier was
Speaker 1: pretty audacious, especially at the time. Yeah, it's a fascinating failure.
Speaker 2: Tell me if you think this is it, I think
Speaker 2: that it is trying to do a genre that is expired.
Speaker 2: There aren't many of these. I think about Flash Gordon
Speaker 2: a lot, like sort of corny, cheesy sci fi adventure
Speaker 2: cereal that the world has moved on from that genre.
Speaker 2: It has evolved that genre until it's something else, and
Speaker 2: trying to do it exactly the way it was at
Speaker 2: the time that it was created just won't work anymore.
Speaker 2: And that's what I think is wrong with Sky Captain.
Speaker 2: But I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: It's almost like if the Rocketeers sucked. There reminds me
Speaker 1: a lot of what was that one? Where was the
Speaker 1: Nazis on the Moon movie? Iron Sky? I think it
Speaker 1: was called, and that was also I know this is
Speaker 1: a horrible term, but it was so computer generated. It
Speaker 1: just felt like everybody lived inside of a computer, inside
Speaker 1: of a Sky Captain. And there are other films kind
Speaker 1: of like some of oh god, what is that guy's name?
Speaker 1: Zack Snyder's films like Sucker Punch. It reminded me a
Speaker 1: lot of that.
Speaker 2: I'm a defender of Sucker Punch.
Speaker 1: I have the Blu Ray. That's another one though, where
Speaker 1: I'm just like, why is this the way it is?
Speaker 1: And then to compare the director's cut versus the theatrical cut,
Speaker 1: It's another one of those fascinating movies for me.
Speaker 2: I'm going to shut up because we could talk for
Speaker 2: another two hours about Sucker Punch and Zack Snyder. We
Speaker 2: were talking about Zack Snyder earlier today because we went
Speaker 2: and saw Superman on Monday. The way people are talking
Speaker 2: about this Superman versus Zack Snyder Superman kind of bothers
Speaker 2: me because it's like, the cynical part of me is okay,
Speaker 2: so you just don't want nuance is really the thing.
Speaker 2: American audiences want something that's not in shades of gray.
Speaker 2: They want something that is the good guy punching the
Speaker 2: bad guy full stop. I understand that we're in a
Speaker 2: national moment where that feels a lot better, but also,
Speaker 2: these kids today can't deal with the shades of gray,
Speaker 2: and that's a bummer. I'll be dead in the cold
Speaker 2: ground before I recognize Missuri.
Speaker 1: What is all the sticky notes behind you.
Speaker 2: This is the timeline for the book that I'm writing now,
Speaker 2: because I'm writing a book about a Hollywood death in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two, and so I'm using real people in
Speaker 2: real events, and there's a bunch of stuff that I
Speaker 2: need to keep in mind as i'm writing. So that's
Speaker 2: what that is. It's hundreds and hundreds of different events
Speaker 2: that occurred in the lives of these different people.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, is it fictionalized or pure nonfiction?
Speaker 2: No, it's fictionalized. I'm writing from the perspective of three
Speaker 2: dead people, so you know, I have to imagine what
Speaker 2: their thoughts were. But it's about the death of Paul Byrne,
Speaker 2: who was a producer in early Hollywood. He married Jean
Speaker 2: Harlowe in nineteen thirty two, and two months later he
Speaker 2: was dead. And when I was learning about this, I
Speaker 2: realized that three of the people in his life who
Speaker 2: were closest to him, his friend Jack Gilbert, his boss
Speaker 2: Irving Thalberg, and his wife Jean Harlowe, were all dead
Speaker 2: before the age of forty by nineteen thirty eight. That's
Speaker 2: not suspicious, but it is interesting because it means that
Speaker 2: we'll never really know what happened to him. Everybody who
Speaker 2: knows is dead, and what happened to him was the
Speaker 2: studio said that he committed suicide, but he probably didn't.
Speaker 2: So who killed him? Why? And the answers to those
Speaker 2: questions are really interesting. So I'm writing a book about it.
Speaker 2: It's a book about the unknowable.
Speaker 1: Basically, have you done anything that audacious before? That seems
Speaker 1: like a great project.
Speaker 2: Thank you for saying that. Actually, yes, my last novel
Speaker 2: was even more ambitious, but this one is. Yeah. I'm
Speaker 2: really excited about this project, and I'm really looking forward
Speaker 2: to being done writing about Irving because I don't like him,
Speaker 2: and it's very hard to get in his head because
Speaker 2: I just don't. I don't think he's a good guy.
Speaker 1: Is your last one out? Are reading? Or are we
Speaker 1: still waiting for that one?
Speaker 2: No? The last one is very unlikely to be published.
Speaker 2: It is a book that I wrote based on the
Speaker 2: movie Casablanca. I wanted to write the story of Ilsa
Speaker 2: because I felt that she was underserved as a character
Speaker 2: in the movie, and so I wrote this novel that
Speaker 2: spans a bunch of European cities from nineteen thirty six
Speaker 2: to nineteen forty one which, as you may imagine, involved
Speaker 2: an awful lot of research into a very turbulent time.
Speaker 2: And so like I went to Norway, I went to Sweden.
Speaker 2: I did all this different stuff. I learned about fashion,
Speaker 2: I learned about war, I learned about the Holocaust. It
Speaker 2: was like two years of work. And I need Warner
Speaker 2: Brothers permission to even pitch the book because they own
Speaker 2: the characters. And no one that I have spoken to
Speaker 2: who could help me with this is interested.
Speaker 1: Maybe her name is actually Milsa.
Speaker 2: Other people have suggested that, but I feel like I
Speaker 2: lose a huge sales hook if I don't stick with
Speaker 2: the characters. If you're going to leave this part in,
Speaker 2: and if any agents are interested, who want to go
Speaker 2: toe to toe with Warner Brothers on a legal issue,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure there's lots of them out there. I
Speaker 2: think it's a great book. I have showed it to
Speaker 2: people who have thought it's a great book, but it's
Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do in the indie world with it.
Speaker 2: Somebody did it in nineteen ninety eight. It was a
Speaker 2: guy who wrote this book called As Time Goes By,
Speaker 2: which is basically a spy thriller and in terms of feminism,
Speaker 2: the exact opposite of what I was trying to do,
Speaker 2: but that was published by Warner Books, which no longer exists.
Speaker 1: Yeah books, Who needs them anymore? Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah? No, certainly not, David Zaslav.
Speaker 1: So what other projects are you working on? Because you
Speaker 1: always have such fascinating things you're doing. It seems like
Speaker 1: the Thalberg thing, but just keep you busy, night and day.
Speaker 2: I've written about two thirds of it, so once I
Speaker 2: finish with the Ballberg part, then I'm going to start
Speaker 2: assembling it. And it's actually going to be a collage
Speaker 2: novel with a lot of quotes from all the books
Speaker 2: that I read to write this, because they all said
Speaker 2: things so much better than I could say them, like
Speaker 2: all the books that I read, and so I wanted
Speaker 2: to give them their moment. I'm also working on a
Speaker 2: series of Western Kutula mythos stories. I'm trying to write
Speaker 2: twelve of them, and I keep running out of ideas,
Speaker 2: but I've written I think four, and they all take
Speaker 2: place in kind of this what will eventually be New
Speaker 2: Mexico Town where there are creatures from HB. Lovecraft's world,
Speaker 2: and it is so much fun to write Western weird fiction.
Speaker 2: It is so much fun. So I'm working on that interminently.
Speaker 2: Next winter, so December twenty sixth, I will have my
Speaker 2: first urban fantasy novel out with castle Bridge, and that
Speaker 2: is going to be the first in a series, and
Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to that because I wrote that
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve Wow, and have been trying to sell
Speaker 2: it ever since.
Speaker 1: That's kind of feel fantastic to finally see something you
Speaker 1: wrote so long ago. Reach Till Light a Day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that one I'm looking forward to because, like I wrote,
Speaker 2: my favorite character I've ever written is the main character
Speaker 2: of this book, so I'm really looking forward to people
Speaker 2: meeting her.
Speaker 1: Do you have the sequels already written or no, not
Speaker 1: written but planned. You are so freaking ambitious. You put
Speaker 1: me to Shane Catherine.
Speaker 2: I don't have a full time job, so.
Speaker 1: I'm sure that helps. Just being independently wealthy from all
Speaker 1: the book publishing, I'm sure.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah. My husband is very reliable as
Speaker 2: a human being and as a source of income, so
Speaker 2: I've been very lucky.
Speaker 1: It is always so good talking with you. I hope
Speaker 1: I can have you back on the show again soon.
Speaker 1: I'd love to talk to you maybe about Skycaptain the
Speaker 1: World of Tomorrow.
Speaker 2: I also love talking to you, so whenever you'd like
Speaker 2: me to come, I will be.
Speaker 1: There, all right. I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Catherine.
Speaker 1: This is great.
Speaker 2: You're welcome.