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Speaker 2: You are now listening to True Murder, The most Shocking
Speaker 2: Killers in True Crime History and the authors that have
Speaker 2: written about them, Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 2: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 2: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 2: journalist and author Dan Zupansky.
Speaker 5: Good evening. This is your host Dan Zupanski for the
Speaker 5: program True Murder, The most shocking Killers in true crime
Speaker 5: History and the authors that have written about them. What
Speaker 5: goes through the dark minds is notorious killers as Ted Bundy,
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Dahmer, David Berkowitz, Son of Sam, John, Wayne Gacy,
Speaker 5: Dennis Rader, b t K and others. In this chilling book,
Speaker 5: you'll read exactly what they were thinking in their own
Speaker 5: words as they committed horrible crimes, using court transcripts and
Speaker 5: police interviews. Veteran true crime and crime fiction writer Tom
Speaker 5: Philbin has compiled the testimony of twenty infamous serial killers
Speaker 5: nineteen men and one woman. For fans of crime stories
Speaker 5: who look for realism, this book is like no other.
Speaker 5: The descriptions couldn't be more realistic, since in effect, This
Speaker 5: book is written by the serial killers themselves. Their words
Speaker 5: range from the bizarre and weirdly fascinating to the revolting
Speaker 5: and horrific. In each case, Philbin provides a background profile
Speaker 5: to give readers a sense of the context from which
Speaker 5: these monsters emerged. Though they come from different backgrounds, nationalities,
Speaker 5: and generations, their words do reveal certain common elements. Not
Speaker 5: one invinces any sense of compassion or sensitivity in regard
Speaker 5: to their victims. They appear to be unable to control
Speaker 5: the impulses that lead them to kill, and in many
Speaker 5: cases they derive a perverse sexual satisfaction from their deeds.
Speaker 5: Taking true crime reading to a new level of immediacy,
Speaker 5: this disturbing book offers a glimpse into the worst side
Speaker 5: of human nature. The book that we're profiling receiving is
Speaker 5: I Monster serial Killers in their own chilling words by
Speaker 5: Tom Philbin and narrated by yours. Truly, this programmer has
Speaker 5: to have a special warning because, as described in the introduction,
Speaker 5: this is the worst of the worst, and when we
Speaker 5: talk about that they derive a perverse sexual satisfaction from
Speaker 5: their deeds. That's also all mixed up with murder and sex,
Speaker 5: So they're inseparable and disgusting in nature throughout. So if
Speaker 5: your week of the stomach or faint of the heart,
Speaker 5: maybe take a rain check on this program, because I'm
Speaker 5: basically this book is like it's described in the introduction.
Speaker 5: It is a brief synopsis or description or background, a
Speaker 5: background of the killer themselves. And then what is really
Speaker 5: highlighted and showcased or here in this book published is
Speaker 5: the words, the chilling words, the shocking words that the revolting,
Speaker 5: disgusting words of these famous and infamous serial killers. We
Speaker 5: won't cover all of them. And I've got to say
Speaker 5: this book is really very very very interesting. But the
Speaker 5: only drawback I got to say, and it's unfortunate that
Speaker 5: Wesley Allan Dodd has his diaries quite a bit of
Speaker 5: the diaries published in this book in his own handwriting. However,
Speaker 5: it's almost indecipherable even with so Unfortunately, one of the
Speaker 5: worst and one of the most interesting, and one of
Speaker 5: them less famous or less infamous killers is Wesley Allen Dodd.
Speaker 5: And I strained and strained with my little Walmart glasses
Speaker 5: and I could barely read it. So there's no way
Speaker 5: I'm going to be able to narrate it, so I
Speaker 5: don't say I say that he does a great job
Speaker 5: throughout providing it's very, very readable. Unfortunately, that's the only
Speaker 5: little drawback, and I wanted to read something from Wesley
Speaker 5: Allen Dodd, but like I say, it's really kind of
Speaker 5: difficult to read. But an amazing Tom Philben has introduced
Speaker 5: me to Wesley Allen Dodd in terms of a killer
Speaker 5: that I was not as aware of, and now I
Speaker 5: am a little more interested, especially after the straining and
Speaker 5: reading this in his fine book, I'm Monster. So I'm
Speaker 5: going to read a little bit of the introduction, not
Speaker 5: the entire introduction, because I think that would be appropriate
Speaker 5: for me narrating and basically promoting this book on behalf
Speaker 5: of from Atheists Publishing. I got their permission and I said,
Speaker 5: I contacted Tom Philbin, but for whatever reason, he's not
Speaker 5: interested to come on the program. But since I had
Speaker 5: was very interested in the book, I read it from
Speaker 5: cover to cover a couple of times, and I asked
Speaker 5: Frometheus if I could do this program and gave me
Speaker 5: their blessings. So here we are, So without any further ado,
Speaker 5: I'm going to read a little bit of the introduction
Speaker 5: and we'll get into what I have talked about in
Speaker 5: terms of the worst of the worst. This book will
Speaker 5: not be everyone's cup of tea, but for the true
Speaker 5: crime fans who like to take their murder stories straight,
Speaker 5: it would be hard to think of anything more appealing
Speaker 5: because it is written by the serial killers themselves, direct
Speaker 5: quotations from their letters, confessions, trial transcripts, and the like.
Speaker 5: While a good hunk of the material can be fairly
Speaker 5: characterized as a rough ride, not all of it is.
Speaker 5: For example, one thing of a particular interest was the
Speaker 5: questionnaire filled out by John Wayne Gacy, the serial killer
Speaker 5: who murdered more than thirty young boys in a suburb
Speaker 5: outside Chicago. His answers to it are utterly oblivious to
Speaker 5: his homicidal persona, But the words of some killers are horrific,
Speaker 5: straight from hell. For example, what could be more horrific
Speaker 5: than Edmund Kemper describing in his confession to cops how
Speaker 5: he freendedly stabbed a six year old girl to death
Speaker 5: one lovely day in California, experienced a sexual exultation as
Speaker 5: he did. Or Wesley Allen Dodd and the unspeakable things
Speaker 5: he did to a four year old victim or Dennis Rader,
Speaker 5: who wiped out one by one an entire family, described
Speaker 5: the experience with all the interest he might have had
Speaker 5: in blowing his nose. Each of the chapters start with
Speaker 5: a background on the particular killers, so the reader will
Speaker 5: be able to put the killer's utterances and deeds into context. Reason,
Speaker 5: the more you understand the context, the more you'll enjoy.
Speaker 5: If that is the right word the book, unless otherwise noted,
Speaker 5: The killer quotes come from official sources, such as court transcripts,
Speaker 5: pardon me, in interviews with police and district attorneys. The
Speaker 5: advantage of using this kind of material that it is
Speaker 5: more likely to be truthful. When cops and other official
Speaker 5: investigators probe for the truth, they usually get it. And
Speaker 5: though I consider myself a card carrying ghoul with the
Speaker 5: requisite cast iron stomach, when it comes to the subject,
Speaker 5: I had some difficulty making it through some of the material.
Speaker 5: The reason, I think is that while this book is
Speaker 5: about serial killers, it is also about their victims. Never
Speaker 5: before have I grasped what victims go through. Then, when
Speaker 5: researching this book, more than once I had to stop
Speaker 5: reading for a while, and more than once my sense
Speaker 5: of liberalness, my constant quest to understand why went away,
Speaker 5: And all I wanted to do was use my bare
Speaker 5: hands to kill these killers. A great offshoot for this book,
Speaker 5: we think, is that it will provide insight into the
Speaker 5: mind and soul of the serial killer as never before.
Speaker 5: As you get to see how these people react with
Speaker 5: their victims, you start to understand that none of them
Speaker 5: has a conscience, none of them cares at all for
Speaker 5: their victims. You understand that when they kill, it is
Speaker 5: a sexual experience. Most will have an erection or experience
Speaker 5: orgasm as their victims die, and most paramount, and for most,
Speaker 5: if not all, you'll come to realize that power and
Speaker 5: control of their victims is paramount. And you'll come to
Speaker 5: understand that they relive the death of their victims by
Speaker 5: handling parts of their victims or pieces of their property.
Speaker 5: And you come to understand that one body isn't enough
Speaker 5: for serial killers. They will never stop killing until someone
Speaker 5: stops them of all the main monsters of the twentieth
Speaker 5: and twenty first centuries will be heard from people like
Speaker 5: Cannibal and child killer Albert fish Green, River killer Gary Ridgeway,
Speaker 5: who killed so many women he couldn't remember how many.
Speaker 5: Ted Mundy, who killed untold numbers of women estimates vary,
Speaker 5: including two in one day. Dennis Raider, the BTK bind
Speaker 5: torture killed murderer from Topeka, Kansas, who in court testimony
Speaker 5: described his stomach churning escapades with a nonchalance as suggested
Speaker 5: above bordering on boredom. And David Parker Ray, who with
Speaker 5: a coven of diseased cohorts in New Mexico tortured kidnapped
Speaker 5: teenagers and young women, raping them thirty to forty two
Speaker 5: times before getting down to serious torture. And two nineteenth
Speaker 5: century killers, Jack the Ripper and H. H. Holmes are quoted.
Speaker 5: In a few instances when the material is particularly nasty,
Speaker 5: we have provided cautionary notes. One of the most famous
Speaker 5: serial killers of all time, but now probably in the
Speaker 5: last ten twenty years, not so much, but a very
Speaker 5: interesting serial killer, David Berkowitz. David Berkowitz who grew up
Speaker 5: to become the infamous serial killer, son of Sam Proud,
Speaker 5: of the streets of New York City, armed with a
Speaker 5: forty four caliber Bulldog Revolver, shooting people at random, mostly
Speaker 5: young women. He was born to two people who were
Speaker 5: married but not to each other. They gave their bastard
Speaker 5: child up for adoption to a nat in Pearl Berkowitz,
Speaker 5: who raised David in the Coop City complex of apartments
Speaker 5: in the Bronx. Now, the exact reason for his development
Speaker 5: into a serial killer are not known, but by the
Speaker 5: age of twenty two, he was, as one cop put
Speaker 5: it later, three courts low, he thought Blood's thirsty demons
Speaker 5: were controlling him, one in particular, named Sam, who was
Speaker 5: embodied in a neighbor's black lab dog.
Speaker 2: A.
Speaker 5: Berkowitz started thinking of himself as a son of Sam,
Speaker 5: the sort of a person who would follow Sam's or
Speaker 5: the Devil's orders exactly, and those orders were to send
Speaker 5: people into the next life. The following our selections from
Speaker 5: official court documents and notes and letters he wrote for
Speaker 5: his conviction. Now an introduction is not really fair. There's
Speaker 5: a little bit of sarcasm in there, but some assess
Speaker 5: of course, there was a defense that no one is
Speaker 5: ever quite sure whether he was faking his insanity or
Speaker 5: was he truly insane, And the courts have never really
Speaker 5: cared too much in terms of giving any credence to
Speaker 5: the insanity plea, especially when you've incited this much terror
Speaker 5: on an entire city, like Son of Sam David Berkowitz
Speaker 5: did this is? Son of Sam, writes to police and
Speaker 5: the press. Dear Captain Joseph Borelli, I am deeply hurt
Speaker 5: by your calling me a woman hater. I am not,
Speaker 5: but I am a monster. I am the son of Sam.
Speaker 5: I am a little brat. When Father Sam gets drunk,
Speaker 5: he gets mean. He beats his family. Sometimes he ties
Speaker 5: me up to the back of the house. Other times
Speaker 5: he locks me in the garage. Sam loves to drink blood.
Speaker 5: Papa Sam keeps me locked in the attic too. I
Speaker 5: can't get out, but I look out the attic window
Speaker 5: and watch the world go by. I feel like an outsider.
Speaker 5: I am on a different wavelength than everybody else. Program
Speaker 5: to kill, however, to stop me, you must kill me.
Speaker 5: Attention all police, shoot me first, shoot to kill or else.
Speaker 5: Keep out of my way, or you will die. Papa
Speaker 5: Sam is old now he needs some blood to preserve
Speaker 5: his youth. He's had too many heart attacks. Too many
Speaker 5: heart attacks. It hurts sunny boy. I miss my pretty
Speaker 5: princess most of all. She's residing in our lady's house.
Speaker 5: But I'll see her soon. I am the monster, Beezelbub,
Speaker 5: the chubby behemoth. Go out and kill commands Father Sam.
Speaker 5: Behind our house. Some rest, mostly young, raped and slaughtered,
Speaker 5: their blood drained, just bones. Now Papasam keeps me locked
Speaker 5: in the attic two, mister Barelli, Sir, I don't want
Speaker 5: to kill anymore, No, sir, no more, but I must
Speaker 5: honor thy father. I want to make love to the world.
Speaker 5: I love people. I don't belong to Earth. Return me
Speaker 5: to yahoos, to the people of Queen's I love you,
Speaker 5: and I want to wish you all a happy Easter.
Speaker 5: May God bless you in this life and the next.
Speaker 5: And for now I say goodbye and goodnight. Please let
Speaker 5: me haunt you with these words. I'll be back. I'll
Speaker 5: be back. To be interrupted as bang bang bang bang
Speaker 5: yours in murder, mister monster. And now he's written a
Speaker 5: letter to Jimmy Breslin, a reporter for the New York
Speaker 5: Daily News. Now this is he's terrorizing the city, and
Speaker 5: he's writing letters to police and to journalists. So that's
Speaker 5: how you get famous, You really get famous. Hello from
Speaker 5: the gutters of New York City, which are filled with
Speaker 5: dog manure. Vomit, stale wine, urine in blood. Hello from
Speaker 5: the sewers of New York City, which swallow up the
Speaker 5: delicacies when they are washed away by the sweeper trucks.
Speaker 5: Hello from the cracks and the sidewalks of New York City,
Speaker 5: and from the ants that dwell in these cracks and
Speaker 5: feed on the dried blood of the dead that has
Speaker 5: seeped into these cracks. I'm just dropping you a line
Speaker 5: to let you know I appreciate your interest in this
Speaker 5: most recent horrendous forty four caliber killings. Also want to
Speaker 5: tell you that I read your column daily and I
Speaker 5: find it quite informative.
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Speaker 5: He wrote, I love to hunt, prowling these streets looking
Speaker 5: for fair game, tasty meat. The women of Queens are
Speaker 5: the prettiest of all. I must be the water they drink.
Speaker 5: I live for the hunt, my life blood for Papa,
Speaker 5: mister Barelli, Sir, I do not want to kill anymore, No, sir,
Speaker 5: no more, but I must honor my father again. To
Speaker 5: the people of Queen's, I love you, and I want
Speaker 5: to wish you all a happy Easter, and God bless
Speaker 5: you in this life. And the next and for now
Speaker 5: I say goodbye and good night yours and murder mister monster.
Speaker 5: So maybe we'll move on from David Berkowitz. Again, that's
Speaker 5: sort of a mix of one of the only ones,
Speaker 5: one of the rare serial killers that went to trial
Speaker 5: with any kind of insanity defense. But as you could
Speaker 5: even almost read in this there's I don't know, it's
Speaker 5: sort of the mix of the lucid and it's very insane,
Speaker 5: So I don't know. There was always question on that
Speaker 5: defense that he got messages from his dog and Satan.
Speaker 5: So now I've done a program, But as spoken to
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Dahmer, there are two or three books I believe,
Speaker 5: or at least a couple that we've covered on this
Speaker 5: program in the last three years, but no book specifically
Speaker 5: about Jeffrey Dahmer. Since the books that were written about
Speaker 5: Dahmer were very well covered, and the authors that wrote
Speaker 5: those definitive books about Jeffrey Dahmer, it was such a
Speaker 5: long time ago, thirty years ago plus that there is
Speaker 5: those are the hardest authors to come back on and
Speaker 5: talk about a classic book about their work with Jeffrey Dahmer,
Speaker 5: their experience and the book itself, because they've done numerous,
Speaker 5: numerous interviews and they have either moved on to other
Speaker 5: projects or are currently on busy with other book projects,
Speaker 5: and it's hard to keep back straight, and so there's
Speaker 5: this less desire. Anyway, this book is a great provider
Speaker 5: of information. And let's talk about Jeffrey Dahmer a little bit.
Speaker 5: Jeffrey Dahmer was born in Milwaukee. In nineteen sixty. When
Speaker 5: he was six years oldest family moved to Ohio. There's
Speaker 5: not a great body of evidence to hint about or
Speaker 5: clearly to explain what happened to create Jeffrey Dahmer the killer,
Speaker 5: but is known that as a child he witnesses his
Speaker 5: mother and father's arguments, which of course would be might
Speaker 5: be threatening to a child. There also reports that a
Speaker 5: male neighbor had sexually molested him, nothing really confirmed, whatever
Speaker 5: the confluence of forces. By the age of ten, Jeffrey
Speaker 5: was clearly showing the signs of a future serial killer.
Speaker 5: He delighted in violating the bodies of dead animals, such
Speaker 5: as mounting the head of a dog on a steak,
Speaker 5: decapitating rats and mice, and bleaching chicken bones. In June
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy eight, when he was eighteen years old, he
Speaker 5: murdered his first human being. His mother and father had
Speaker 5: separated by this time, had gone off somewhere on separate journeys,
Speaker 5: and had left him alone in the house. He had
Speaker 5: access to a car, and he picked up a hitchhiker
Speaker 5: named Stephen Hicks. He took Stephen home with him with
Speaker 5: the hopes of having sex with him, but when Hicks
Speaker 5: won to leave, Dahmer prevented him by smashing him in
Speaker 5: the skull with a barbell, and then Dahmer cut him
Speaker 5: up and buried the parts. He just said later he
Speaker 5: didn't want him to leavenineteen eighty two, Dahmer moved in
Speaker 5: with his grandmother in West Alice, Wisconsin. In August of
Speaker 5: that year, he was arrested for exposing himself at a
Speaker 5: state fair. In September nineteen eighty six, he was charged
Speaker 5: again with public exposure after two boys accused him of
Speaker 5: masturbating in public. This time, he was sentenced to a
Speaker 5: year in prison. On September twenty fifth, nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 5: he was arrested for finling a thirteen year old Lowatian
Speaker 5: boy in Milwaukee. On May twenty third, nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 5: Dahmer's lawyer, Gerald Boyle and assistant district Attorney Gail Shelton
Speaker 5: presented their argument to Judge William Gardner. Sheldon won in
Speaker 5: a prison sentence of at least five years. In my judgment,
Speaker 5: is absolutely crystal clear that the prognosis for treatment for
Speaker 5: mister Dahmer within the community is extremely bleak. His perception
Speaker 5: that what he did wrong here was choosing too young
Speaker 5: a victim and that's all he did wrong is part
Speaker 5: of the problem. He appeared to be cooperative and recepted,
Speaker 5: but anything that goes below the surface indicates the deep
Speaker 5: seated anger and deep seated psychological problems that he is
Speaker 5: unwilling or incapable of dealing with. He did have a
Speaker 5: good lawyer in this, Gerald Boyle, and Dahmer was quite
Speaker 5: well spoken at trial and spoke to a judge who
Speaker 5: wanted to lock him up and throw away the key
Speaker 5: because he had served time for sexual offenses previously. In
Speaker 5: the end, he got a year, served ten months in
Speaker 5: a work release camp, and then he convinced the judge
Speaker 5: that he needed therapy. He was released on good behavior
Speaker 5: with five years of probation. Shortly Thereafter, he racked up
Speaker 5: a string of brutal murders, some of which involved cannibalism,
Speaker 5: ending with his nineteen ninety one I want to rest
Speaker 5: this is Jeffrey Dahmer. I think in some way I
Speaker 5: wanted it to end, even if it meant my own destruction,
Speaker 5: to relieve the minds of the parents. I mean, it's
Speaker 5: a small, very small thing, but I don't know what
Speaker 5: else I could do. At least I can do that
Speaker 5: because I created this horror, and it only makes sense
Speaker 5: that I do everything to put an end to it,
Speaker 5: a complete end to it. It's just a nightmare, Let's
Speaker 5: put it that way. It's been a nightmare for a
Speaker 5: long time, even before I was caught. For years now, obviously,
Speaker 5: my mind has been filled with gruesome, horrible thoughts and ideas,
Speaker 5: a nightmare. I couldn't find any meeting in my life
Speaker 5: when I was out there. I'm sure as hell I'm
Speaker 5: not going to find it in here. This is the
Speaker 5: grand finale of my life, poorly spent, and the end
Speaker 5: result is just overwhelmingly depressing. It's just a sick, pathetic, wretched,
Speaker 5: miserable life story. That's all it is. How can it
Speaker 5: help anyone. And I have no idea. I don't even
Speaker 5: know if I have the capacity for normal emotions or not,
Speaker 5: because I haven't cried for a long time. You just
Speaker 5: stifled them for so long that maybe you lose them
Speaker 5: partially at least, I don't know. I don't know why
Speaker 5: it started. I don't have any definitive answers on that myself.
Speaker 5: If I knew the true real answers of why all
Speaker 5: this started before it ever did, I wouldn't probably have
Speaker 5: done any of it. If I'd been thinking rationally, I
Speaker 5: would have stopped. I wasn't thinking rationally because it just
Speaker 5: increased and increased. It was almost like I wanted to
Speaker 5: get to a point where it was out of my
Speaker 5: control and that there was no return. I mean, I
Speaker 5: was very careful for years and years, you know, very careful,
Speaker 5: very careful about making sure that nothing in criminal remain.
Speaker 5: But these last few months they were just nuts. It
Speaker 5: just seemed like it went into a frenzy. This last month,
Speaker 5: everything really came crashing down. The whole thing started falling
Speaker 5: down around my head. That was the last week I
Speaker 5: was going to be in that apartment building. I was
Speaker 5: going to have to move and find somewhere to put
Speaker 5: all my possessions. Should I get a chest and put
Speaker 5: what I wanted to keep in that and get rid
Speaker 5: of the rest? Or should I put an end to this,
Speaker 5: try to stop this and find a better direction for
Speaker 5: my life. That's what was going through my mind that
Speaker 5: last week. One thing I know for sure, it was
Speaker 5: a definite compulsion because I couldn't quit. I tried, but
Speaker 5: after the Ambassador, I couldn't quit. It'd be nice if
Speaker 5: someone could give me the answer on the silver platters,
Speaker 5: the way I did all this and what caused it.
Speaker 5: Because I can't comp up with the answer. I felt
Speaker 5: a complete shock. I just couldn't believe it happened again,
Speaker 5: after all those years when I'd done nothing like this.
Speaker 5: I don't know what was going through my mind. I
Speaker 5: have no memory of it. I tried to dredge it up,
Speaker 5: but I have no memory whatsoever. I didn't want to
Speaker 5: keep killing people and then have nothing left except the skull.
Speaker 5: It's going to sound bad, but should I say it
Speaker 5: I took the drill while he was asleep. Yes, I
Speaker 5: do have remorse, but I'm not even sure myself whether
Speaker 5: it's a profound. It's as profound as it should be.
Speaker 5: I've always wondered myself why I don't feel more remorse.
Speaker 5: After the fear and terror of what I had done
Speaker 5: had left, which took about a month or two, I
Speaker 5: started all over again. From then on, it was a craving,
Speaker 5: a hunger. I don't know how to describe it, a compulsion,
Speaker 5: and I was just I just kept doing it, doing it,
Speaker 5: and doing it whenever the opportunity presented itself. I knew
Speaker 5: my Grandma would be waking up, and I still wanted
Speaker 5: to stay with I still wanted him to stay with me,
Speaker 5: so I strangled him and I brought him up to
Speaker 5: the bedroom and pretended he was still alive. That night
Speaker 5: in Ohio, that was one impulsive night. Nothing's been normal
Speaker 5: since then. It taints your whole life. After it happened,
Speaker 5: I thought I'd just try to live as normally as
Speaker 5: possible and bury it. But things like that don't stay buried.
Speaker 5: I didn't think it would, but it does. It taints
Speaker 5: your whole life. At about eleven o'clock at night, when
Speaker 5: everyone was gone and the store was locked up from
Speaker 5: the outside, I went out and undressed a mannequin and
Speaker 5: I had a big sleeping bay cover. I put it
Speaker 5: in that, zipped it up and carried it out of
Speaker 5: the store, which is a pretty dangerous thing to do.
Speaker 5: I never thought of them maybe having security cameras or
Speaker 5: being locked up in the store. But I walked out
Speaker 5: with it and took it back home. I ended up
Speaker 5: getting a taxi and brought it back and kept it
Speaker 5: with me a couple weeks. I just went through various
Speaker 5: sexual fantasies with it, pretending it was a real person,
Speaker 5: pretending I was having sex with it, masturbating and undressing it.
Speaker 5: This is on the murder of Anthony Sears. I took
Speaker 5: the knife from the scalp part off and peeled the
Speaker 5: flesh off the bone and kept the skull and the scalp.
Speaker 5: But I could have kept them longer, all of him,
Speaker 5: I would have. This is he talks about a quote
Speaker 5: about Geraldo Herrera. He just wants to make people feel
Speaker 5: as guilty and lousy as possible. The guy is such
Speaker 5: a prick. This is on the murder of Ernest Miller.
Speaker 5: I separated the joints, the arm joints, the leg joints.
Speaker 5: He had to do two boilings. I think I used
Speaker 5: four boxes of soilex for each one put in the
Speaker 5: upper portion of the body and boiled out for about
Speaker 5: two hours, and then the low were portioned for another
Speaker 5: two hours. The soil actually removes all of the flesh,
Speaker 5: turns it into a jelly like subst and it just
Speaker 5: rinses off. And then I laid the clean bones into
Speaker 5: in a light bleached solution, left them there for a day,
Speaker 5: and spread them out on either newspaper cloth and let
Speaker 5: them drive for about a week in the bedroom. Talks
Speaker 5: about the murders that weighed heaviest on his mind. On
Speaker 5: Steven Hicks, I wish I hadn't done it. On Stephen Tawami,
Speaker 5: I had no intention of doing it in the first place.
Speaker 5: On Jeremiah Weinberger, he was exceptionally affectionate. He was nice
Speaker 5: to be with. Something stronger than my conscience will made
Speaker 5: it happen. I think some higher power got good and
Speaker 5: fed up with my activity and decide to put an
Speaker 5: end to it. I don't really think there was that
Speaker 5: was any coincidence the way it ended, and whether the
Speaker 5: close calls were warning to me or what, I don't know.
Speaker 5: If they were, I sure didn't heed them. If I
Speaker 5: hadn't been caught or lost my job, I'd still be
Speaker 5: doing it. I'm quite sure that I went on doing
Speaker 5: it and doing it, and doing it in spite of
Speaker 5: my anxiety and the lack of lasting satisfaction. How arrogant
Speaker 5: and stupid of me to think I could do something
Speaker 5: like this and just go about my life normally, as
Speaker 5: if nothing ever happened. They say you reap what you sew. Well,
Speaker 5: it's true, you do eventually. I've always wondered from the
Speaker 5: time that I committed the first horrid mistake sin with Hicks,
Speaker 5: where this was sort of predestined and there was no
Speaker 5: way I could have changed it. I wondered just how
Speaker 5: much predestination controls a person's life, and just how much
Speaker 5: control they have over themselves. I was completely swept along
Speaker 5: with my own compulsion. I don't know how else to
Speaker 5: put it. It didn't satisfy me completely, so maybe I
Speaker 5: was thinking another one will, maybe this one will. And
Speaker 5: the numbers started growing and growing and just got out
Speaker 5: of control. As you can see, this is reflections on death.
Speaker 5: It's just like a big chunk of me has been
Speaker 5: ripped out, and I'm not quite whole. I don't think
Speaker 5: I'm over dramatizing it, and I'm certainly deserving of it.
Speaker 5: But the way I feel now, it's just like you're
Speaker 5: talking to someone who is terminally ill and facing death.
Speaker 5: Death would be preferable to what I'm facing. I just
Speaker 5: feel like imploding upon myself, you know, I just want
Speaker 5: to go somewhere and disappear. When you've done the types
Speaker 5: of things I've done, it's easier not to reflect on yourself.
Speaker 5: When I start thinking about how it's affecting the families
Speaker 5: of the people and the family and family and everything,
Speaker 5: it doesn't do me any good. It just gets me upset.
Speaker 5: If I was killed in prison, that would be a
Speaker 5: blessing right now. Well, that was a blessing right now,
Speaker 5: I guess because that's what happened.
Speaker 1: He was.
Speaker 5: Killed in prison. Then again, if I'm not correct, what
Speaker 5: he did is he asked, he did not ask for
Speaker 5: or he wasn't on death row, or he didn't ask
Speaker 5: for protective custody. Anyway, he wasn't on death row, he
Speaker 5: wasn't in any kind of protective custody, and he was
Speaker 5: killed in prison. Now, this is Albert Fish as a
Speaker 5: defense witness for Albert Fish at his trial for murdering
Speaker 5: and cannibalizing ten year old Grace Budd. Doctor Frederick Warholm
Speaker 5: of Bellevue Hospital said the fish had committed literally every
Speaker 5: human perversion that Warreham had ever heard of, including cop profit, corporography,
Speaker 5: eating feces, decorism, striking needles into his body, undinism, being
Speaker 5: urinated on or urinating on someone else, in a wide
Speaker 5: variety of saddle masochistic activities. Probably his favorite for first
Speaker 5: activity was being whipped or imagining someone else being whipped.
Speaker 5: Fish had a hallacious childhood, as the great majority of
Speaker 5: serial murders do. Fish was a child of a thirty
Speaker 5: two year old woman and a seventy five year old
Speaker 5: man who promptly died, leaving his young wife to care
Speaker 5: for the boy. Overwhelmed, she placed him in an orphanage
Speaker 5: and spent his early years learning all the perversions from
Speaker 5: other castaway kids that he was to practice on. As
Speaker 5: he grew into adulthood, Fish often wrote to women trying
Speaker 5: to set up house with him, letters that were so
Speaker 5: crazy that at one point he was prosecuted by the
Speaker 5: Post Office and sent to Bellevue Hospital, the premier New
Speaker 5: York psychiatric hospital. His intense interest in saddle. Masochism and
Speaker 5: corpography was plainly evident in as many of in the
Speaker 5: many of the letters he wrote. These letters became part
Speaker 5: of the record in his trial for the murder of
Speaker 5: ten year old Grace Budd. When writing to various families,
Speaker 5: he did not use his real name, but rather either
Speaker 5: James W. Pell or or Robert Hayden pardon either James W.
Speaker 5: Pell or Robert Hayden, and he posed as an important person.
Speaker 5: Following is a typical missive. He wrote to a woman
Speaker 5: named Grace, using the name Robert Hayden to mention James W.
Speaker 5: Pell was Fish who visited the woman and her daughter,
Speaker 5: and he has little exces to denote kiss marks. My
Speaker 5: dearest darling, sweetness, Grace, your dear loving little note at hand,
Speaker 5: we missed a train an act of James W. Pell.
Speaker 5: When I told him we were going to Virginia, he
Speaker 5: said he wanted to go to you, and he spake
Speaker 5: and whipped with rape on his bare asked by you
Speaker 5: and your daughter, pardon me. This is a chat with
Speaker 5: Albert Fish. Though Fish never testified his own trial, he
Speaker 5: was questioned by the New York Police Department, and the
Speaker 5: transcript was read at his trial, Following our transcripts of
Speaker 5: what he told Captain Stein of the New York Police Department,
Speaker 5: chiefly concerning the abduction and murder of Grace Bud, ten
Speaker 5: year old Grace Bud before you went to live with
Speaker 5: your daughter, where were you living with another daughter in Astoria,
Speaker 5: missus Gertrude di Marco? Did you ever live at four
Speaker 5: or nine East one hundredth Street, Manhattan, Yes, when in
Speaker 5: nineteen twenty eight? Yes? What time of the year was that,
Speaker 5: other than from about April until the middle of June.
Speaker 5: Sometime in the month of May nineteen twenty eight. In
Speaker 5: answer to an advertisement that appeared in the World paper,
Speaker 5: did you go to a residence four or six West
Speaker 5: fifteenth Street, Manhattan, the address of the Bud family, Yes, sir.
Speaker 5: Just what was the advertisement that brought you to that address?
Speaker 5: A young boy advertised for a job on a farm,
Speaker 5: any kind of work. And I went to the home
Speaker 5: of the Buds. When was that on Saturday, June nineteen
Speaker 5: twenty eight? And I had spoken in reference to taking
Speaker 5: the boy because it was the boy she thought was
Speaker 5: going to go. When I got to the home, a
Speaker 5: little girl came over and sat in my lap, and
Speaker 5: I sort of had a feeling come across me to
Speaker 5: take the little girl. Now. Fish had left the package
Speaker 5: containing a cleaver saw and knife down by an unoccupied
Speaker 5: news stand before walking to and entering the home of
Speaker 5: the Buds. Now, why did you have that cleaver saw
Speaker 5: and knife? Why did you buy them? I didn't have
Speaker 5: any intention at all of killing the girl, but I
Speaker 5: sort of had. I could not describe it, a sort
Speaker 5: of bloodthirst. The notion got into my head and I
Speaker 5: intended to use those things on her. Brother, What made
Speaker 5: you use them on her? Then? I can never account
Speaker 5: for it. I would have given my life within a
Speaker 5: half hour after I'd done it to restore it to her.
Speaker 5: This little girl you mentioned here, have you since learned?
Speaker 5: Her name was Grace Bud? I knew it. I knew
Speaker 5: it then. They told me at the house her name
Speaker 5: was Grace. The mother told her name was Grace. Yes,
Speaker 5: to the best of your recollection, what time of the
Speaker 5: day was this? Between one and two we had lunch together?
Speaker 5: And what times you'd take Grace Bud from her home?
Speaker 5: Three pm? Fish had been unable to do this, had
Speaker 5: been able to do this with the Grace family because
Speaker 5: he told him they were going to a birthday party
Speaker 5: at his sister's house. Now, missus Bud was reluctant to
Speaker 5: let her go, but mister Bud was confident with mister
Speaker 5: Albert Fish, who was using an alias here when Pelle
Speaker 5: he was, and he convinced her to let Grace go
Speaker 5: to the party. And Albert said there was going to
Speaker 5: be cake, and there was going to be balloons and
Speaker 5: other girls there. And so they trusted this guy immediately
Speaker 5: because they felt that he was a good sign because
Speaker 5: he was there answering an ad trying to employ the sun.
Speaker 5: And then when he saw the daughter. Anyway, this was
Speaker 5: the ruse. Now they questioned him, how did you travel?
Speaker 5: We left the house and I took the elevated train
Speaker 5: on ninth Avenue in fourteenth Street. We went to Segwid
Speaker 5: Segwich Avenue, and I forgot just how we did it,
Speaker 5: but we transferred from there to Van corn And Park.
Speaker 5: Then we took to New York and Putnam Branch four
Speaker 5: three sixth eight New York Central Railroad to Worthington, New York,
Speaker 5: Westchester County. And that makes it that you arrived in
Speaker 5: Worthington about what time while we arrived there. I guess
Speaker 5: about a little after three. Walked all the way in
Speaker 5: from Worthington to Elmsford. There was a trolley car at
Speaker 5: that time running into White Plains. When you got off
Speaker 5: the train at Worthington, you had forgotten the package containing
Speaker 5: the cleaver knife and saw is that correct? Yes? It
Speaker 5: was wrapped up and stood up and striped canvas and
Speaker 5: stood on its end, leaning up against the window side
Speaker 5: of the car. We were both almost out of the train,
Speaker 5: and the girl happened to look back. She said, you
Speaker 5: forgot your package, and she ran back and she got it.
Speaker 5: Did you tell her what was in it? No? Then what?
Speaker 5: We walked up the road to a two family house.
Speaker 5: Was it occupied? No? Empty? It still is empty. Outside
Speaker 5: was a field of wildflowers, and I said, you play
Speaker 5: out here in the yard while I go in. So
Speaker 5: I went in and I opened this package and spread
Speaker 5: it out on the floor. I expected to be spattered
Speaker 5: up with blood, so I took off my clothing and
Speaker 5: put them in the closet. Was she dressed when we
Speaker 5: left her house? She had on a blue coat, light
Speaker 5: pale blue hat. Underneath that was a white dress, underwear,
Speaker 5: shoes and stockings. What kind of shoes did she have on?
Speaker 5: White shoes and stockings, pure white, all the way up
Speaker 5: to her, all the way on the way up to
Speaker 5: her house. Up to the house, it was kind of warm,
Speaker 5: so I said, take off your hat and coat. She did.
Speaker 5: I rolled the hat under the coat and put it
Speaker 5: under a rock. The water had formed an aperture. Running
Speaker 5: down the hill to put the package, to put a
Speaker 5: package there that was on the way up. Then I
Speaker 5: went to the window and called the little girl Grace
Speaker 5: to come in, to come up. When she got to
Speaker 5: the top of the steps one flight up, she appeared
Speaker 5: to be kind of frightened. I was nude, and she
Speaker 5: started to run back. I grabbed her, and she said
Speaker 5: she would she would tell her mamma. So I took
Speaker 5: her into the room and choked her to death, and
Speaker 5: I cut the body up into three pieces. I tried
Speaker 5: to drink the warm blood, but it made me sick.
Speaker 5: What made you kill her? Choke her and kill her?
Speaker 5: I'd been reading a lot of cases of children being kidnapped,
Speaker 5: the Bobby White case. I recalled that in several other
Speaker 5: cases that had that. And then I had a brother
Speaker 5: who served five years in the Navy, United States Navy
Speaker 5: was honorably discharged, and he used to relate to me
Speaker 5: when I was quite small. He was oldest of my
Speaker 5: mother's seven children. Walter H. Fish was his name. He
Speaker 5: had been to China where there was a famine when
Speaker 5: they were using human flesh for blood for food. He
Speaker 5: used to tell us a lot of these things, and
Speaker 5: that really got into my head. Did you commit any
Speaker 5: rape on her? Never entered my head. What tools did
Speaker 5: you use to kill? The knife to cut her throat? Yes?
Speaker 5: And I chopped her with the cleaver. Did you use
Speaker 5: the saw? No? Now, six years after he abducted and
Speaker 5: murdered Grace Bud, the Bud's got a letter from Fish.
Speaker 5: If you can believe this, whom they knew was Frank Howard,
Speaker 5: pardon me, not William pell. It's fair to say that
Speaker 5: it is one of the vilest letters ever penned, and
Speaker 5: it proved to be Fish's undoing because a brilliant, determined
Speaker 5: New York Police Department cop named William King used it
Speaker 5: to help track Fish down. Following is the part of
Speaker 5: the letter that was most relevant to William King. On Sunday,
Speaker 5: June third, nineteen twenty twenty eight. I called you at
Speaker 5: four or six West fifteenth Street. Grace sat in my
Speaker 5: lap and kissed me. I made up my mind to
Speaker 5: eat her on the pretense of taking her to a party.
Speaker 5: You said yes, she could go. I took her to
Speaker 5: an end empty house on Westchester I had already picked out.
Speaker 5: When we got there, I told her to remain outside.
Speaker 5: She picked wild flowers. I went upstairs and stripped all
Speaker 5: my clothes off. I knew if I had did. If
Speaker 5: I did not, I would get blood on them. When
Speaker 5: all was ready, I went to the window and called her,
Speaker 5: then hid in the closet until she was in the room.
Speaker 5: When she saw me all naked, she began to cry
Speaker 5: and tried to run downstairs. I grabbed her, and she
Speaker 5: said she would tell her mamma. First I stripped her naked.
Speaker 5: How she did, kick, bite and scratched. I choked her
Speaker 5: to death and cut her into small pieces so I
Speaker 5: could take my meat to my room, cook and eat it.
Speaker 5: How sweet and tender her little ass was roasting in
Speaker 5: the oven. It took me nine days to eat her
Speaker 5: entire body. I did not fuck her, but I could
Speaker 5: have if I wished. She died of virgin so That's
Speaker 5: why Albert Fish is one of the most famous serial
Speaker 5: killers of all time. Because not even the capable of
Speaker 5: doing what you do. It's we need fiction really now.
Speaker 5: It was quite a bit of interest in the program
Speaker 5: just recently when we did the reissue of Slow Death
Speaker 5: from Jim Fielder, the late great Jim Fielder and with
Speaker 5: Sheila Johnson, Pinnacle author has been on the program with
Speaker 5: her great books, I think three times. And anyway, Sheila
Speaker 5: Johnson writes about some wild, wild cases, and she was
Speaker 5: asked to write a forward and an update on the
Speaker 5: Slow Death book which reissued by Pinnacle involving David Parker
Speaker 5: HRE and his Disciples of Hell Disciples from Hell in
Speaker 5: Outer Space. I guess. Anyway, David Parker Ray for those
Speaker 5: that can't get enough of this guy, because this guy's amazing. Again,
Speaker 5: who needs fiction's tame compared to this David Parker Ray.
Speaker 5: Vernon Gibberth g birth, America's top homicide cop. He's been
Speaker 5: involved in over eight thousand wrongful death investigation believes that
Speaker 5: David Parker Ray was the most vicious serial killer he
Speaker 5: has ever encountered. Clinically, I would describe him as the
Speaker 5: ultimate psychopathic saddist. Investigatively, I would define him as a
Speaker 5: human predator. Spiritually, I would describe him as the devil
Speaker 5: on earth. Now, the author puts, please note the following
Speaker 5: material is especially disturbing, and it's all disturbing. Ray, his
Speaker 5: wife Hendy, their daughter Glenda Jesse, and a friend named
Speaker 5: Roy Yancey, participating the abduction of women usually prostitutes their
Speaker 5: runaways from the streets of New Mexico towns. They would
Speaker 5: then take them to raise compound and inside a windowlows
Speaker 5: trailer called the toy Box, where Ray and the others
Speaker 5: would strip them naked nude, tie them in obscene positions
Speaker 5: in a gynocologist's chair, and then torture them by administering
Speaker 5: electric current serting assortment of large and odd shaped dildos
Speaker 5: into their bodies, slicing them with razors and knives, and
Speaker 5: sexually assaulting them with homemade tortured devices. The pain the
Speaker 5: women endured and their cries and screams provided David Parker
Speaker 5: Ray's sexual stimulation. When women were all used up, as
Speaker 5: it were, Ray would kill them, often by strangulation, and
Speaker 5: dump their bodies. He likely killed thirty or more in
Speaker 5: a twenty five mile lake he had access to. To
Speaker 5: make sure the bodies would surface, he would first gut
Speaker 5: them and packed stones inside. Pardon me, I just there's
Speaker 5: quite a bit on David Parker Ray because he was
Speaker 5: very It's the word he loved to talk and keep
Speaker 5: records and speak about and and this is part of
Speaker 5: his uh signature and his uh hism. It's called background noise.
Speaker 5: David Parker Ray and his cohorts made videotapes and audio tapes.
Speaker 5: These are other tapes Ray may distinguish themselves by being
Speaker 5: interrupted by the screams of slaves being tortured. Following is
Speaker 5: from one such tape where he's talking to a captive.
Speaker 5: I make very special adult videos. Videos sell for about
Speaker 5: one thousand dollars each and they're only sold to a
Speaker 5: very select group of collectors and sadistic So a group
Speaker 5: of collectors of sadistic erotica. I learned over the years
Speaker 5: that there's a hell of a lot of people out
Speaker 5: there with some awful, weird fantasies. I rather enjoy the work.
Speaker 5: The money's great. Our customers want a lot of wide
Speaker 5: angle and close up camera shots of the brass nipples
Speaker 5: and sex organs being abused with a variety of instruments
Speaker 5: in a variety of ways. The action has to be real.
Speaker 5: It can't be faked. We need to actually kidnap a
Speaker 5: woman for the action scenes. Sometimes the movies are shot
Speaker 5: in the woods, sometimes in a boat or in the desert.
Speaker 5: Other times we shoot you in a dungeon type room
Speaker 5: in our house. The shooting of the action scenes usually
Speaker 5: takes three or four days. We videotape a dozen or
Speaker 5: so rapes, several whippings, and several hours of abuse with
Speaker 5: a woman chained in a variety of different positions. And
Speaker 5: if I must say so myself, we put out some
Speaker 5: pretty damn good movies. There's a bright side to this.
Speaker 5: Before I turn you loose, I'm going to give you
Speaker 5: a hundred dollars for your trouble. Thirty forty thirty to
Speaker 5: forty percent of the movie will be where the camera
Speaker 5: zooms in for a close up between your legs. So
Speaker 5: all you have to do is show us what you
Speaker 5: have already probably already shown some other poor sucker who
Speaker 5: had to pay a lot more than a hundred bucks
Speaker 5: to catch a glimpse of the promised land. The pink
Speaker 5: hole fuck flicks or a dime a dozen. You can
Speaker 5: buy them all over the place for eight or nine
Speaker 5: dollars and ninety five cents. Our group of clients wants
Speaker 5: to see a woman actually raped, whipped, and tortured. They'd
Speaker 5: like to see a woman wiggle, squirm, bite the chains,
Speaker 5: and sweat a lot. And if you don't sweat enough,
Speaker 5: we'll put baby oil on you on your body to
Speaker 5: stills simulate it. We strive to please. That's our claim
Speaker 5: to fame. I prefer to use the word abuse because
Speaker 5: I don't think we actually torture a woman in our films.
Speaker 5: Let's get into a few types of abuse. We use
Speaker 5: damn big dildos on your two holes, and they look
Speaker 5: wicked as hell. We're careful when we use them, with restraint.
Speaker 5: That's necessary to create illusion of reality. If our procedures
Speaker 5: don't cause pain, we we wouldn't have to kidnap a
Speaker 5: live woman to make these movies. Since these movies are
Speaker 5: into bondage, it's necessary that we tie up your tits.
Speaker 5: We tach long Nyland chords to each nip. When we
Speaker 5: put on a few drops of super glue to bond
Speaker 5: the chord to the skin, the women's breasts are very
Speaker 5: elastic and they can be stretched upward like two slender cones.
Speaker 5: You're going to squeal like a stuck pig while I'm
Speaker 5: doing it, but it won't bother me at all. It
Speaker 5: will also be whipped about twenty lashes during each session.
Speaker 5: The whip has to be used hard enough to leave
Speaker 5: some good weltz for the camera. I don't want to
Speaker 5: get you all bloody, so the whip strokes will be
Speaker 5: concentrated on your thighs, your butt, sex organs, belly and tits,
Speaker 5: and even if you're gagged, the microphones will pick up
Speaker 5: the sound. The whip is a great tool for effect.
Speaker 5: It never ceases to amaze me how barbaric some people
Speaker 5: can be. Our customers want to see you getting hurt.
Speaker 5: We use some gigantic dildos to create some special effects.
Speaker 5: We pull the skin around your vagina back and then
Speaker 5: thrust in a dildo four to six inches wide at
Speaker 5: the base. On the viewing screen, it looks pretty terrible.
Speaker 5: It looks like we're tearing you apart. And this we
Speaker 5: want the viewer to think. Our customers think that's exactly
Speaker 5: what we do to a girl when we make these movies,
Speaker 5: but that's not the way it works at all. Abruptly
Speaker 5: voices can be heard in the background. You may be
Speaker 5: tempted to strike out, kick, hurt, bite, try to screw.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't do that if I were you. Now, there's
Speaker 5: still lots of screaming, sighing, and crying in the background.
Speaker 5: Can't you all keep that bitch quiet in there? Put
Speaker 5: a gag in her or something. Fuck, I'm trying to
Speaker 5: make a tape out here. Close that damn playroom door.
Speaker 5: Anything the background screaming ceases. Shit, that's better. Fuck that
Speaker 5: bitch has got a set of lungs in her. My
Speaker 5: friend was forcing the devil's dick up her ash and
Speaker 5: she didn't like it. For shit, that's for sure. Now
Speaker 5: where were we now? Just be careful what you do
Speaker 5: with your hands and feet. If you piss me off,
Speaker 5: things are going to get a hell of a lot rougher.
Speaker 5: A woman scratched me in the face one time and
Speaker 5: I cut her clip off. Another thing I might tell
Speaker 5: you right now is that starts talking to someone in
Speaker 5: the background. What what do you all want? Loud noises
Speaker 5: in the background, All right, damn it, Wait a minute,
Speaker 5: let me turn this damn machine off here, there's a pause.
Speaker 5: Well I'm back. Shit, had laughs. Shit, They're like a
Speaker 5: bunch of little kids in there with a new toy.
Speaker 5: They just wanted me to show them how to use
Speaker 5: the electro shock machine. That little that little content there
Speaker 5: is chained down and she can't be over fifteen or
Speaker 5: sixteen years old. My friend sure giving her a working over. Damn.
Speaker 5: I guess I should have made this tape when it
Speaker 5: was a little bit quieter, But you know how it goes.
Speaker 5: The excitement of the moment and all that shit. Anyhow,
Speaker 5: what I was going to tell you a while ago,
Speaker 5: what there's is absolutely no way in hell that you're
Speaker 5: going to be turned loose until I'm done with you. Hal.
Speaker 5: I even picked up one little bitch seventeen or eighteen
Speaker 5: years old that told me she had a two week
Speaker 5: old baby at home, and I didn't doubt it for
Speaker 5: a minute. After I had her in for a few hours,
Speaker 5: her nipples start leaking, mill constantly made a hell of
Speaker 5: a mess. Even with all her excuses, I still didn't
Speaker 5: turn her loose. And I'm sure as hell I'm not
Speaker 5: going to turn your loose. Loud screaming and cries can
Speaker 5: be heard in the background. Damn, that's carrying right through
Speaker 5: the walls. I don't know what they're doing to her,
Speaker 5: but it must be good. Hang on a minute, and
Speaker 5: I got to look in there, make sure they're not
Speaker 5: killing a little whore. Three verses are heard in the back.
Speaker 5: Are heard in the background, the males and females and
Speaker 5: David Rays. Their words are hard to make out. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm back, laughs, She's okay. One of the girls was
Speaker 5: touching a lit cigarette to her nipples, but I told
Speaker 5: her not to do it anymore. I don't particularly like that,
Speaker 5: not because of the pain, because we're in a business
Speaker 5: of pain, but because cigarette burns kind of mess up
Speaker 5: a woman's appearance. That doesn't turn me on. So I
Speaker 5: apologize for that. There's no way you can read Slow Death,
Speaker 5: read about the trial of David Parker Ray, or even
Speaker 5: understand unless you really understand. So I apologize for that language.
Speaker 5: But that's what jurors got to see or hear read.
Speaker 5: Listen to one of the most fascinating things about the
Speaker 5: Slow Depth story. And if you think, oh jeez, I've
Speaker 5: heard the true murder interview, I've heard some more stuff.
Speaker 5: The books are incredible that's why they become true crime classics.
Speaker 5: That's why they're separated themselves from everything else. Number One,
Speaker 5: The story is incredible. The villains are incredible, the heroes
Speaker 5: are incredible, the victims are memorable and many times incredible.
Speaker 5: The woman, I'll never forget this, it's so vivid. Jim
Speaker 5: Fielder just nailed this description. But again, this is true,
Speaker 5: and this is right out of a horror movie. She
Speaker 5: escapes from her captors with a metal chain around her neck,
Speaker 5: a caller around her neck and chain attached and naked
Speaker 5: and then tortured, the massifated, emaciated in terror. Running through
Speaker 5: a trailer, court, came up to a vehicle in that trailer,
Speaker 5: court tried to get that person's attention. They drove off,
Speaker 5: tried to ignore her, didn't want to be involved. We're afraid,
Speaker 5: who knows. But she finally got up to a bigger trailer.
Speaker 5: A couple was home, an older couple. She ran in
Speaker 5: and this couple helped her. And of course if she
Speaker 5: wouldn't have made it up there just a few minutes behind,
Speaker 5: not far behind, are the villains, the ghouls, the demons,
Speaker 5: the humans, the serial killers in a vehicle looking for her,
Speaker 5: to take her back. And despite what David Parker Ray
Speaker 5: says about, you know, letting these people go, hypnotizing them,
Speaker 5: giving him a drug, you know, so they don't know,
Speaker 5: and washing him clean and letting them go. He killed
Speaker 5: over thirty people or more. David Parker Ray slow death amazing.
Speaker 5: Now there's quite an exchange with Gary Ridgeway that the
Speaker 5: Green River Killer that was officially, I guess officially said
Speaker 5: officially had claimed that or they have claimed that he's
Speaker 5: killed at least forty nine women, went on for years
Speaker 5: and years, finally caught him and there's a famous wow.
Speaker 5: There's been a lot of involvement. He was interrogated by
Speaker 5: at his name, David, I'm going to get the right
Speaker 5: Dave Reichert, yes, at the head of the Green River
Speaker 5: Task Force, who hated Ridgeway so much he brought him
Speaker 5: to tears. And Reichert also partnered Bob Keppel in questioning
Speaker 5: Ted Bundy to gleam insight on how the Green River
Speaker 5: Killer operated. That's again they've taken that and stretched that,
Speaker 5: and of course it's in a lot of movies, and
Speaker 5: it's also in Hannimal and The Criminal Mind. You know,
Speaker 5: he's in a lot of stuff. The true fact that
Speaker 5: Ted Bundy, one of the most prolific, amazing, charismatic and
Speaker 5: evil serial killers of all time, offered, volunteered and was
Speaker 5: enlisted to help authorities the FBI profile Gary Ridgeway in
Speaker 5: the hope of trying to capture Gary Ridgeway, one of
Speaker 5: the worst serial killers ever. And Ted Bundy was right
Speaker 5: about a lot of things. So incredible again this way,
Speaker 5: these stories are classic, and the authors that were chosen
Speaker 5: or chose these subjects either way, seek them out. They're
Speaker 5: all over the place these days and very reasonably priced.
Speaker 5: And so trust me, it's a slice of history. And
Speaker 5: as much as you think you know, there's a lot
Speaker 5: to know. And there's a lot more to these stories. Anyway,
Speaker 5: this Dave rekerd it's interesting. I kind of laugh, but
Speaker 5: he just hates this guy so much. And Ridgway thinks
Speaker 5: he's telling the truth, or he believes he's telling the truth.
Speaker 5: And it's an interesting exchange. It's not exactly humorous, but
Speaker 5: it's very very very interesting. Gary Ridgeway doesn't admit too much,
Speaker 5: but it's interesting in the exchange. And of course, David Reichert,
Speaker 5: I don't I'm not laughing at him. It's just it's
Speaker 5: interesting how frustrated he is. And of course he gave
Speaker 5: it inexplicably involved with this killer forever and you just
Speaker 5: can't get that experience out of you. Now to close,
Speaker 5: we're gonna and I got to say that there's HH Holmes,
Speaker 5: a little bit on Jack the Ripper BTK, and we
Speaker 5: spoke of Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gacy, some more so
Speaker 5: than others. There is a Swogo from South Africa. So
Speaker 5: this book is jam packed with the worst of the worst.
Speaker 5: And it's you know, almost three hundred pages. It's it
Speaker 5: covers a lot of killers, like I say, H Holmes,
Speaker 5: Jack the Ripper, Shawcross, Albert Fish, wes Le Allen Dodd.
Speaker 5: So it's famous, more famous, but definitely the worst to
Speaker 5: the worst of the serial killers. To the end the program,
Speaker 5: we'll talk about Arthur Shawcross. Arthur Shawcross was born in
Speaker 5: Maine in nineteen forty five, but his family moved to Waterton,
Speaker 5: New York, near the Canadian border. While the real truth
Speaker 5: about his child is uncertain, he spoke of a turbulent
Speaker 5: family life and of being sexually abused by an aunt
Speaker 5: at the age of nine. He had sex with his
Speaker 5: younger sister and had his first homosexual encounter at the
Speaker 5: Lage eleven. In nineteen sixty seven, he joined the army
Speaker 5: and served a one year tour of duty in Vietnam.
Speaker 5: He related horrendous stories of murder and mutilation in the
Speaker 5: jungles and villages. He would claim a combat kill of
Speaker 5: thirty nine enemies, but records showed that his units saw
Speaker 5: little if any combat. Once out of the service, he
Speaker 5: became a serial arsonist and was eventually arrested for trying
Speaker 5: to break into a service station. He would serve two
Speaker 5: years of a five year sentence for this. In May
Speaker 5: of nineteen seventy two, the killing began. His first victim
Speaker 5: was ten year old boy, whom he lured into the
Speaker 5: woods on the promise of going fishing. His second victim
Speaker 5: was an eight year old girl whom he'd lured to
Speaker 5: a deserted area while showing her a new bicycle. Both
Speaker 5: children were strangled and the girl had been sexually assaulted.
Speaker 5: Eyewitness had even seen shot crossed with the children. He
Speaker 5: was arrested. He confessed to both murders, but in a
Speaker 5: plea bargain deal, he was charged with only one count
Speaker 5: of manslaughter. He would serve fourteen and a half years
Speaker 5: of a twenty five year sentence. He was released early
Speaker 5: because he was a model prisoner. Authorities thought he had
Speaker 5: reformed and could safely return to society as productive citizen
Speaker 5: upon his parole, he find it difficult to find a
Speaker 5: permanent residence. When newspapers or townspeople found out what has passed,
Speaker 5: there'd be an uproar and he'd have to move on.
Speaker 5: In an effort to settle him somewhat, the parole board
Speaker 5: made the monumentally but bad decision to cover his trail
Speaker 5: and seal his records from any further investigation. This allowed
Speaker 5: him to finally settle in Rochester, New York, an upstate
Speaker 5: community situated on the Genese River. About a year after
Speaker 5: he got out of prison, the bodies of murdered prostitutes
Speaker 5: began showing up, usually dumped in the Genese Gorge area.
Speaker 5: The women had all been affixiated and sometimes mutilated. As
Speaker 5: a body count kept rising, and the same oh memmo
Speaker 5: was seen over and over, Rochester police realized that they
Speaker 5: were dealing with a serial killer. An intense man hunt began.
Speaker 5: One winter day, the police got a lucky break, a
Speaker 5: helicopter pilot spotted a body splayed on the ice below
Speaker 5: on a river. Chawcross was then seen urinating outside his car,
Speaker 5: which is still parked on the bridge. He was followed
Speaker 5: and questioned. In the face of mounting evidence, Chacross finally
Speaker 5: admitted to ten murders. Arthur Shawcross was in a many
Speaker 5: times with police, psychiatrist and law enform forcement personnel. Here
Speaker 5: was what he had to say about one experience he
Speaker 5: had when he was in the service in Vietnam. Yeah,
Speaker 5: I go out there and came across a woman and
Speaker 5: a girl was putting an AK forty seven on the
Speaker 5: side of a coop, and I shot her, tied gagged her,
Speaker 5: took her up where I had a clear view the area,
Speaker 5: tied her to a tree. I didn't have nothing to
Speaker 5: eat that day, and I took a big chunk of
Speaker 5: the hip of the girl. I took up all the
Speaker 5: skin and took a piece of green bamboo and I
Speaker 5: ran it up inside the bone and roasted it on
Speaker 5: the fire. After it cooked down, it was almost like
Speaker 5: eating coal broiled pork, the consistency of a dry roast beef.
Speaker 5: I was just in the mood that's all. After I
Speaker 5: was done eating it didn't taste that bad. I took
Speaker 5: the body and carried it down through the jungle area
Speaker 5: where I knew there was a big ant hill and
Speaker 5: laid it on the ant hill. Went back to the
Speaker 5: tree and was sitting there sharpening the machete and eating
Speaker 5: that meat. The other girl had sweat running off of her.
Speaker 5: I tied her hands and tied her on the ground
Speaker 5: and raped her and I cut her throat, took her
Speaker 5: head up where the house was and put the head
Speaker 5: on a stick right in front of the house. The
Speaker 5: next one was June. Sierra Shatgrast told one psychiatrist. She
Speaker 5: flagged me down and she was pretty I strung and
Speaker 5: and she got in the car and we were driving
Speaker 5: out thirty one somewhere, and right at that moment, I
Speaker 5: can't think. I can't remember, you know, I just remember
Speaker 5: I put her in. It was snowing and snowplows were
Speaker 5: on the road, and I pulled up by this place,
Speaker 5: this culvert area, just just pushed her out of the
Speaker 5: car and she went out the guard rail, over the guardrail,
Speaker 5: and what clothes that were still in the car I
Speaker 5: put in the Salvation Army Box on manituin one o
Speaker 5: four and I think about two three days went by.
Speaker 5: I went back and I had I'd cut her, cut
Speaker 5: the vagina right out of her bone and bone and
Speaker 5: all of that, and I was driving around with that
Speaker 5: somewhere out there. I ate that too. And that's from
Speaker 5: material from the late great Jack Olson, which I believe
Speaker 5: is the best true crime writer ever. Ah and no,
Speaker 5: no slight to anyone else, material from Jack Olson The
Speaker 5: Misbegotten Son, nineteen ninety three. So that's I Monster by
Speaker 5: Tom Philbin. I hope that the people that do did
Speaker 5: tune in were not offended, as I certainly did warn you,
Speaker 5: and join me next week for Erotophonophilia Investigating Lust Murder
Speaker 5: with my special guest journalist, academic professor Janet McClelland, so
Speaker 5: tune in for that. Good night