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No, we're just necessary daoidhever Everyboy, Loss, MS, 24 00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:01.280 conditions eating Plus. 25 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.760 You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking 26 00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:14.879 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 27 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:22.239 written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer The Nightstalker VTK Every 28 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:25.959 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 29 00:01:26.040 --> 00:01:30.239 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 30 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.120 host journalist and author Dan Zupanski. 31 00:01:41.280 --> 00:01:41.840 Good Evening. 32 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:46.239 South Dakota's Mathis family murders brought death and deception to 33 00:01:46.319 --> 00:01:49.959 the heartland. It was perhaps the most infamous murder case 34 00:01:50.000 --> 00:01:53.519 in state history. The Donna Mathis was shot twice in 35 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:56.439 the head at point blank range inside the family's metal 36 00:01:56.480 --> 00:02:01.079 shed serving as their makeshift home. Two of her three children, 37 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:04.560 ages two and four, were also shot in the head. 38 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:08.439 The brutality of the killing shocked the state and set 39 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:12.960 off a frenzy of law enforcement activity. Despite its intensity, 40 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:16.800 the investigation never found the murderer or the murder weapon. 41 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:21.439 Though charged with the crime, the husband was acquitted, leaving 42 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:25.000 the door open for endless speculation about what really occurred 43 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:29.319 on that late summer morning of September eighth, nineteen eighty one. 44 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:35.400 With renewed insight from those involved, veterans. South Dakota journalist 45 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:39.479 Noel Hamil explores this cold case of murder and mystery 46 00:02:39.919 --> 00:02:43.759 that still haunts the Mount Rushmore State. The book they 47 00:02:43.800 --> 00:02:48.199 were featuring this evening is South Dakota's Mathist Murders Horror 48 00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:51.400 in the Heartland, with my special guest, journalist and author 49 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:54.800 Noel Hamil. Welcome to the program, and thank you very 50 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:55.800 much for this interview. 51 00:02:56.120 --> 00:02:58.000 Noel Hamil, thank you for having me. 52 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.800 Dan, thank you so much. First off, tell our audience 53 00:03:02.199 --> 00:03:05.360 your connection to this area and to this story. 54 00:03:05.639 --> 00:03:09.639 I practiced journalism in South Dakota most of my career. 55 00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:12.240 I was born and raised here, and although the crime 56 00:03:12.719 --> 00:03:16.520 happened forty years ago, it just haunted me all those 57 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.560 years for two reasons. Primarily, one was never solved. As 58 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:25.599 you mentioned, the husband has acquitted, there were no other 59 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.800 suspects who were detained or arrested. And to the painous 60 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:34.319 nature of the crime, two young children and a farm 61 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:37.599 wife both shot in their sleep point bank in the range. 62 00:03:37.599 --> 00:03:42.000 And I just decided on retirement that I would take 63 00:03:42.000 --> 00:03:43.759 the time and research it and see if I could 64 00:03:43.759 --> 00:03:44.479 pull something together. 65 00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:49.000 Now, tell us about this little community, Mount Vernon, and 66 00:03:49.319 --> 00:03:53.800 also about the Mathis family itself and the circumstances they 67 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:57.080 find themselves in that they're living. As we talked about 68 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.319 in the introduction, in a makeshift home, what are the 69 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.639 reasons for that, and just tell us a little bit 70 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:05.319 about the family itself and its makeup. 71 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:09.680 Well. The Mathis Farm is about eight miles north of 72 00:04:09.680 --> 00:04:13.000 Mount Vernon, which is a small farming community in South Dakota. 73 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:17.560 Many many small farming communities. But in July of that year, 74 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:21.040 their house separate an electrical fire. It had started in 75 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:24.639 the basement. It was deemed suspicious, but no charges were 76 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.240 ever brought. Two weeks later, the house again caught fire, 77 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:32.360 this time maybe because of a lightning strike. The house 78 00:04:33.120 --> 00:04:37.480 was uninhabitable and so they decided the family decided to 79 00:04:37.519 --> 00:04:41.600 move into a metal machine shed actually a multipurpose shed 80 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:45.480 just close to the home, and they moved their beds 81 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.000 in there, and they decided to live there until a 82 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:51.639 new house could be built. It was somewhat primitive. They 83 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.879 didn't have plumbing or innure bathrooms, but they decided that 84 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.480 they could live there until the new house was completed. 85 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:02.519 So that's why they were in this makeshift home at 86 00:05:02.560 --> 00:05:03.800 the time of the murders. 87 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.879 And you say that it was a typical farm family. 88 00:05:07.079 --> 00:05:10.639 They were church going and seemingly no enemies. But take 89 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:15.839 us to September eighth, nineteen eighty one, and the deputy 90 00:05:15.839 --> 00:05:19.360 sheriff is a man named Doug Kirkus, and he gets 91 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:23.079 a call at home at three fifty four am from 92 00:05:23.079 --> 00:05:25.560 somebody that he knows that he went to school with 93 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:30.879 John Mathis. What does John Mathis essentially say to him 94 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:36.000 and then tell us about what Sheriff Kirkus encounters when 95 00:05:36.040 --> 00:05:37.920 he arrives at the farm. 96 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.360 Well, as you mentioned, they were actually classmates at Mount 97 00:05:41.439 --> 00:05:44.160 Vernon High School small school twenty seven. In the class 98 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:47.360 they knew each other. Deputy Kurkus lived in Mount Vernon, 99 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:50.160 and when the call came in from John Mathis, John 100 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:54.759 Mathis said something to the effect Doug, come quick, somebody's 101 00:05:55.079 --> 00:06:00.560 shot my family. So Kirkus immediately addresses himself, goes out 102 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:02.839 the door and drives at high speed to the Mathis place. 103 00:06:03.399 --> 00:06:07.399 What he finds there is, you know, a matthis farm. 104 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:11.480 He's a little bit concerned because he doesn't know if 105 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.920 if the murderer is still on site or is lurking 106 00:06:15.959 --> 00:06:18.720 behind the building. Maybe he is still in the machine. Shit. 107 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:22.279 He doesn't know any of this, so he's very cautious, 108 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:26.120 but he quickly discovers that he's not alone. He sees 109 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:32.920 headlights approaching and it's actually John Mathis's father, who is 110 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.319 also arriving at the place, and when he gets out 111 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:39.639 of his vehicle, he sees that the elder Mathis is 112 00:06:39.639 --> 00:06:43.879 carrying a long gun, and so Debbie Kirkis gets out 113 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.360 of his car and they approach the building together. 114 00:06:46.639 --> 00:06:51.839 Now what do they find the conditions of the Mathis family. 115 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.800 Well, they open the door carefully again for the reasons 116 00:06:55.800 --> 00:06:59.199 that I've mentioned, and what they see is John Mathis 117 00:06:59.279 --> 00:07:03.879 kneeling at the bed of one of his children. They 118 00:07:04.519 --> 00:07:09.240 approach him and see that he's wounded. Kirkus sees that 119 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.480 he has sustained a wound to his left arm, and 120 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:15.759 they don't see anything else in the building. But Kirkus 121 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:21.920 then looks at the beds containing Leadonna Mathis and Brian 122 00:07:22.000 --> 00:07:25.839 Mathis and Patrick Mathis, and he sees immediately that they've 123 00:07:25.839 --> 00:07:30.879 been that they've been shot, and he tries to engage 124 00:07:30.959 --> 00:07:35.920 John Mathis, but Mathis himself is injured and seems to 125 00:07:35.959 --> 00:07:42.120 be in some kind of shock. Kirkus administers a bandage 126 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:44.360 to his wound, and by that time, of course, the 127 00:07:45.920 --> 00:07:47.040 other help is on the way. 128 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:53.560 So what is the story that John Mathis relates to authorities. 129 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.879 John Mathis tells Deputy Kirkus that he was awakened at 130 00:07:58.920 --> 00:08:04.439 some point during the by his youngest son, Patrick, who's 131 00:08:04.480 --> 00:08:07.240 two years old, and his son told his dad that 132 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:10.480 he needed to go potty. And as I said, they 133 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:13.360 don't have a bathroom, but they have a bucket over 134 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:17.920 by the door, and so John Matthis helps his son 135 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:21.040 relieve himself in this bucket, puts him back to bed, 136 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:23.759 but decides since he's up, he'll go out and check 137 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:27.839 his livestock. Is he raises hogs, and he wanted to 138 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:31.480 check on some livestock, so he did that, and on 139 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:35.759 his return to the metal building, he told Deputy Kirkus 140 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:39.200 that the door burst open and this man rushes him 141 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:43.120 rushes out of the building, wilding a gun. John Matthis 142 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:45.919 says that he struggled with the man, tried to grab 143 00:08:45.960 --> 00:08:49.559 the gun, did not succeed, the gun goes off, shoots 144 00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:53.360 him in the arm, and he at some point passes 145 00:08:53.399 --> 00:08:57.440 out for twenty or thirty minutes or longer, and he 146 00:08:57.519 --> 00:08:59.600 relates this to the deputy and he said, when he 147 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:03.440 woke up up, he went into the building and called 148 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:07.399 Kurtains and the mask man was I don't I think 149 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:10.519 it was a hood as I recall that may describe 150 00:09:10.519 --> 00:09:11.039 people's work. 151 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:15.000 Now from that account, he's taken to the hospital for 152 00:09:15.200 --> 00:09:19.960 his wounds, yes, But from that account, you say, authorities 153 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:25.840 began a extensive search of the property while people are 154 00:09:25.879 --> 00:09:29.120 also going to the hospital. Authorities are going to the 155 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:34.399 hospital to question mathis so tell us about this search. 156 00:09:34.600 --> 00:09:38.679 Well, one of Kirkus's jobs, or one of the things 157 00:09:38.679 --> 00:09:40.480 that he did when he was alerted, is that he 158 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:46.440 called dispatch, who in turn alerted Sheriff Lyle Swinson and 159 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.279 also the Department of Criminal Investigation, which is based in Pier. 160 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:54.399 But they they had other agents and so investigators from 161 00:09:54.440 --> 00:09:58.120 the DCI arrived on the scene that morning. Sheriff Swainson 162 00:09:58.200 --> 00:10:03.000 arrived and the investigat at the scene begins trying to 163 00:10:03.000 --> 00:10:05.879 find any clues they can who committed the murder and 164 00:10:07.000 --> 00:10:12.600 possibly a murder weapon, anything that investigators could do to 165 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:14.840 try to shed some light on this case. So that 166 00:10:15.000 --> 00:10:20.360 happened right away that morning after John Mathis was taken 167 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:24.519 to the Methodist Hospital in Mitchell so that his arm 168 00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:25.240 could be treated. 169 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:29.159 Tell us about what is found at that crime scene 170 00:10:29.799 --> 00:10:33.120 in terms of in terms of bullets or spent cartridges, 171 00:10:33.480 --> 00:10:36.360 and also tell us what is written on the shed 172 00:10:36.559 --> 00:10:39.320 in gold spray paint. And by the way, the name 173 00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:41.840 a part of them what's written is misspelled. 174 00:10:41.919 --> 00:10:42.679 Tell us about this. 175 00:10:42.840 --> 00:10:47.639 Yeah, an oddity on the large doors to the machine 176 00:10:47.639 --> 00:10:50.759 shed which allows heavy equipment to be moved in and out, 177 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:58.440 someone had spray painted in gold paint. Mathis sucks shit. 178 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:00.759 I hate to say that to yourdience, but that's what 179 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.759 it said. But they misspelled the Mathless name. They spelled 180 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:09.240 it in a phus and so that was spray painted 181 00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:15.600 on the door and investigators saw that. They also found 182 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.799 five spent twenty two caliber cartridges inside the building adjacent 183 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.440 to the crime to where the murders occurred, between the 184 00:11:24.440 --> 00:11:28.480 beds near the beds, and then they not right away, 185 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.159 but later on found a sixth cartridge outside the door. 186 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:38.720 So in all they found six twenty two caliber cartridges 187 00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:39.559 at the seat. 188 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.080 So they don't find anything in the first day of 189 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:46.840 an investigation of searching the property. Despite this extensive search. 190 00:11:47.759 --> 00:11:51.960 So they decide to search further on this property, don't they. 191 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.519 They expanded their search outside the building. This is a 192 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:58.879 pretty typical farmstead. It had a number of outbuildings, nine 193 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:03.879 I believe, and so they began to search each building 194 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.080 and around each building for other clues. What they really 195 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:10.200 want to find, of course, is a murder weapon. They 196 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.840 conduct that search in coming days. One of the things 197 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.799 that they had to do, since this was a hog operation, 198 00:12:18.039 --> 00:12:21.799 they had holding tanks for hog waste. They had to 199 00:12:22.320 --> 00:12:26.279 pump those out. They even had a large we call 200 00:12:26.320 --> 00:12:30.159 it a waste pit underneath the hog building that John 201 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.759 Mathis had visited earlier that morning. They had to pump 202 00:12:33.799 --> 00:12:35.960 it out down to four feet and then they sent 203 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:40.799 to personnel in wetsuits to try to see if there 204 00:12:40.879 --> 00:12:44.200 was a gun that had been thrown into this pit 205 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:47.919 under this building. The search was extensive. They didn't find 206 00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:51.480 anything on the farmstead. They started looking at the road, 207 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:54.519 ditches and land that immediately surrounded the farm. 208 00:12:54.799 --> 00:12:55.440 They walked. 209 00:12:55.720 --> 00:12:58.360 They had a lot of people involved. They rode horseback 210 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.039 in the ditches out as thorough as they thought that 211 00:13:02.080 --> 00:13:03.720 they could be, but they found nothing. 212 00:13:04.120 --> 00:13:07.360 You talk about the two people the two detectives at 213 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:12.519 the hospital questioning Mathis, and his story, as you write, 214 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.559 seems to add detail and somewhat change. Tell us what 215 00:13:17.639 --> 00:13:21.960 he does say to Kirkus and Greeling at the hospital 216 00:13:22.200 --> 00:13:26.200 regarding again hearing a car and other details that he 217 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:27.320 added to his story. 218 00:13:27.399 --> 00:13:31.279 Well, he did say that when he went outside after 219 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:33.879 he had helped his son, he did say that he 220 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:36.799 thought he heard an engine running, but he couldn't determine 221 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:40.879 where it was. And he also said that his dog 222 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.519 was barking, and so he wanted to put his dog 223 00:13:44.600 --> 00:13:48.480 away as well, but he wasn't. I guess those are 224 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.679 the two things that he mentioned. I guess because he he, 225 00:13:51.919 --> 00:13:55.240 you know, again to support the narrative that there was 226 00:13:55.279 --> 00:13:59.879 this this hooded man that committed these murders, but they 227 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:04.240 be The revelation from a law enforcement perspective at the 228 00:14:04.240 --> 00:14:11.159 hospital was that they found a unspent bullet in John 229 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:19.000 Matthis's pocket and he told investigators that, yeah, his son 230 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:22.960 had found that lying in the ground and he brought 231 00:14:23.000 --> 00:14:25.759 it to his dad, and so that's where that bullet 232 00:14:25.759 --> 00:14:30.559 had come from. And so yet another you know, bullet 233 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:35.120 added the mystery of bullets and cartridges at the murdercy. 234 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:40.279 Now, how do police proceed with this investigation regarding this 235 00:14:40.399 --> 00:14:45.639 mass man? How serious do investigators take this assertion that 236 00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:49.360 this mass man? And do they look at any other 237 00:14:49.639 --> 00:14:51.000 potential suspects. 238 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:55.159 Well, initially they didn't have any reason to be skeptical 239 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:59.759 of John Mathis's story. After all, I mean, here's a man. 240 00:15:00.000 --> 00:15:02.120 Those were his family in the metal building. He's the 241 00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:04.679 one that reported the crime. He said, get out of 242 00:15:04.679 --> 00:15:07.600 here quick. Somebody shot in my family. And so they do. 243 00:15:08.120 --> 00:15:11.879 I guess the first inkling that the law enforcement had 244 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.960 suspicions was that when they investigated the area in front 245 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.720 of the building where this struggle took place between John 246 00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:23.919 Mathis and the hooded man, and where John Mathis said 247 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.080 he was shot, investigators were not able to find any 248 00:15:28.120 --> 00:15:31.120 evidence of a struggle. They didn't find any tracks there, 249 00:15:31.159 --> 00:15:34.440 they didn't find any blood there. And if he was 250 00:15:34.480 --> 00:15:37.600 shot and lying there on the ground for twenty or 251 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:40.360 thirty or more minutes, they thought, well there ought to 252 00:15:40.399 --> 00:15:42.879 be some evidence of that. There ought to be some 253 00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:45.320 bloodstains on the ground. They were not able to find 254 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:48.519 any and so, and that was very early on. And 255 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:53.080 so with that in mind, they became suspicious yes of 256 00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.519 John Mathis. 257 00:15:54.360 --> 00:15:57.840 Can you tell me that Svenson believes that he takes 258 00:15:57.879 --> 00:16:01.480 a call from a psychic door the Allison tell us 259 00:16:01.480 --> 00:16:04.759 about this strange part of the story. 260 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:10.120 Dorothy Allison was a psychic from New Jersey who claimed 261 00:16:10.120 --> 00:16:14.120 to have helped law enforcement solved a number of crimes. 262 00:16:14.519 --> 00:16:17.960 Perhaps the most famous one was the Patty Hirst crime. 263 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.919 So the psychic said that she would be glad to help, 264 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.759 and Swinson was interested. This came a little bit later on, 265 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:29.080 after they were unable to turn up anything on the 266 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.799 place she offered to help. She had enough information about 267 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:39.120 the crime that Swinson thought that maybe she would be valuable, 268 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.240 but the state didn't want to have any part of that. 269 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.960 The state figured that if a psychic was brought in 270 00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:49.120 on the prosecution side that they would be laughed out 271 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:51.759 of town. They just didn't want any thing to do 272 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:55.759 with the psychic, and Swinson never pushed that. But it 273 00:16:55.879 --> 00:16:59.759 was an interesting sidelight to the cakes because they were 274 00:16:59.759 --> 00:17:03.039 having no success in solving the case. They couldn't find 275 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:06.839 any suspects other than the husband, They couldn't find the 276 00:17:06.920 --> 00:17:10.000 murder weapon, and so they were I don't want to 277 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.440 stay desperate, but they were looking for help wherever they 278 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:12.920 could find it. 279 00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.920 You talk about the attorney General, Mark meyer Henry, Yes, 280 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.400 he believed at this point a few weeks in that 281 00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:24.640 despite distalled investigation, somewhat that he had enough evidence to 282 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.599 impanel a grand jury. And so he would hear a 283 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.039 testimony from witnesses connected to the case. Who did he 284 00:17:31.240 --> 00:17:35.599 get to assist him and how do they proceed? 285 00:17:36.039 --> 00:17:40.400 They had a team five or six people involved in 286 00:17:40.440 --> 00:17:45.519 the state prosecution. Meyer Henry was the state's attorney general 287 00:17:45.599 --> 00:17:50.680 at that time, highly regarded experienced. He looked at the 288 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.160 investigation that had been conducted by the DCI and the 289 00:17:54.160 --> 00:17:58.160 Sheriff's office and determined that they did have enough evidence 290 00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:01.400 to ask for a grand jury being paneled, which it was. 291 00:18:01.839 --> 00:18:05.720 They presented their evidence to the grand jury, and very 292 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:10.480 short of the grand jury indicted John Mathis. So you know, 293 00:18:10.599 --> 00:18:15.000 they the I would say that meyer Henry, in consultation 294 00:18:15.160 --> 00:18:18.160 with the investigators, determined that they're just there. Weren't any 295 00:18:18.200 --> 00:18:22.279 other suspects. John Mathis was the only suspect that made 296 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:24.640 any sense, and so they were going to They asked 297 00:18:24.640 --> 00:18:25.880 for an indictment and they got it. 298 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:30.240 Now there's a new judge Thomas and Hurst, and then 299 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.480 but Mathis is given bond. But a couple of the 300 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.440 conditions are very interesting. As we were reading the story 301 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:42.640 that he was to not contact a neighbor named Kim Tatum, 302 00:18:42.799 --> 00:18:47.079 which happened to be the family babysitter, and also the 303 00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:50.519 donna's parents, the girl ACKs, who were taking care of 304 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.519 their infant son Matthiss infant son Dwayne during the time 305 00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:57.920 of these murders and during that home renovation. So tell 306 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:01.039 us about Kim Tatum and what she has to say. 307 00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:04.480 Kim Tatum was the neighbor girl who from age thirteen 308 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:07.720 or fourteen had been coming over. They lived directly across 309 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.359 the road from the Matthis place, within walking distance, and 310 00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:14.720 she had been retained by John Matthis to help with 311 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:18.720 chores on the farm since she was thirteen years old. 312 00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:21.279 The reason that he was ordered not to have any 313 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:25.319 contact with her or her family was because he had 314 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:28.640 an interest in Kim Tatum that went beyond just an 315 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.920 employer employee relationship. He was kind of smitten by Kim 316 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:36.079 Tatum even though she was young, and so he was 317 00:19:36.519 --> 00:19:38.400 One of the conditions was that he couldn't have any 318 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:42.680 contact with her or her family, the girlocks Lodonna's parents 319 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.960 who were taken care of the month old Dwayne. He 320 00:19:46.079 --> 00:19:49.480 was also forbidden to talk to them during this during 321 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:53.599 this time as well. So those were two conditions that 322 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:58.759 the court imposed, by the way you mentioned and Hurst 323 00:19:58.839 --> 00:20:03.640 he was the second judge. Judge bog was the judge 324 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:08.039 who ordered the grand jury. And after that indictment, why 325 00:20:08.279 --> 00:20:11.920 John Mathis asked that he recuse himself, which he can 326 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.319 do because he didn't think that he could. Mathis didn't 327 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:18.319 think that he could get a fair trial in Mitchell 328 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:20.640 and wanted a new judge, which was granted. 329 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:24.519 We talk about this grand jury that's impaneled. They learn 330 00:20:24.920 --> 00:20:28.000 a lot of information and of course as a reader, 331 00:20:28.039 --> 00:20:31.319 we learned a lot of information about John Mathis, his 332 00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:35.279 father Vern and his mother Pearl. He was born in 333 00:20:35.359 --> 00:20:38.400 nineteen fifty one, and he had two siblings, Verne Junior 334 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:42.400 and Norma, Gena's sister. And they talk about how LaDonna 335 00:20:42.519 --> 00:20:46.039 Gerlak and John Mathis met. So tell us a little 336 00:20:46.039 --> 00:20:49.400 bit about what's found out about how they met and 337 00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:51.319 when they were soon married. 338 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.359 Well, it's pretty common in small rural communities, you know, 339 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:00.000 to have dances or other public events and John matthis 340 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:04.039 this met Madonna, who was out of high school working 341 00:21:04.079 --> 00:21:08.240 at a bank. Smart girl, attractive. He met her, and 342 00:21:08.400 --> 00:21:14.039 the courtship ensued, and the families were fine with it. 343 00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:17.240 The girl ocks thought that he was an up and 344 00:21:17.279 --> 00:21:22.920 coming young man. He was. The family was successful, and 345 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:28.640 so there was no reason to not endorse that marriage. 346 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:33.440 From the Mathis standpoint, he was looking for a mate, 347 00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:36.839 somebody could help him with the farming operation. Somebody was smart, 348 00:21:36.920 --> 00:21:41.599 and LaDonna Mathis build a bill. So yeah, they met 349 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:43.720 and were married. 350 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:48.119 In terms of anything particular about his personality, you talked 351 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:51.039 about that, from all accounts, he was just a hard worker. 352 00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:54.200 They had his best friend talk about how they were 353 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.319 both very, very interested in farming. 354 00:21:56.359 --> 00:21:57.839 Only he didn't play any. 355 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:02.680 Extra extracurricular activities in school whatsoever. He joined a National 356 00:22:02.720 --> 00:22:06.039 Guard after he graduated, and he was considered by everybody 357 00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.880 as quiet, not a fighter, and didn't use drugs or alcohol. 358 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:13.519 Yeah, he was some people might even call him introverted. 359 00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:21.680 His father, by all accounts, Vern wasn't authoritarian type of dad, 360 00:22:21.920 --> 00:22:24.480 and John Mathis grew up in a household where hard 361 00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:31.079 work was expected, actually insisted upon. If John Mathis went 362 00:22:31.119 --> 00:22:34.160 to a dancer or some other activity and got home light. 363 00:22:34.319 --> 00:22:37.240 His dad would make sure that he was up all 364 00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.279 the earlier the next day. Hard work, by all accounts, 365 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:44.440 was what John Mathis was about. He didn't have he 366 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:48.119 didn't have hobbies. He would worked till one two o'clock 367 00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.480 in the morning, his neighbors said, and his family said. 368 00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:56.680 So that's the profile that emerged of John Mathis Madonna. 369 00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.839 It was a good partnership because Madonna was the business 370 00:22:59.839 --> 00:23:02.400 at the operation. She worked in a bank. She was 371 00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:05.880 good with figures. She tried to if John wanted to 372 00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:09.880 buy a piece of expensive equipment or something of land nature, 373 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.720 she would make sure that they looked hard on it 374 00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.680 and maybe didn't make that purchase. And so she was 375 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:19.319 sort of the business end of the operation and John 376 00:23:19.400 --> 00:23:24.039 Mathis was the worker. But he was also fairly creative 377 00:23:24.039 --> 00:23:28.400 and he could fix things, he could renovate things. He 378 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:29.359 ran a good operation. 379 00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.680 Now with this grand jury, there's enough information to inform 380 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:38.680 the prosecutor and that they have enough information enough evidence 381 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.319 pardon me to go to trial. And so that trial 382 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:43.480 is delayed a couple of times, but it's set for 383 00:23:43.720 --> 00:23:49.279 April nineteen eighty two. So tell us who the adversarial 384 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:54.240 team is. You talked about the prosecutor meyer Henry. Who 385 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:59.680 is the defense team set for this historic South Dakota trial. 386 00:24:00.079 --> 00:24:02.799 The more interesting aspects of this case is that Mark 387 00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:06.400 meyer Henry, who'd been elected Attorney General in South Dakota, 388 00:24:07.640 --> 00:24:11.920 was from Gregory, South Dakota, another small community, farming community. 389 00:24:12.279 --> 00:24:17.400 The lead defense attorney, Rick Johnson, was also from Gregory, 390 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.799 and he and Mark meyer Henry were in the same 391 00:24:20.920 --> 00:24:24.799 high school. They played football together. Johnson was a couple 392 00:24:24.799 --> 00:24:27.839 of years ahead of Mark meyer Henry, but they were 393 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:30.319 clatt They were in the same school, and they were 394 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:32.920 actually grew to be good friends. They were both attorneys. 395 00:24:32.960 --> 00:24:34.880 They went to the same law school, the University of 396 00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:38.319 South Dakota, and they were good friends. So when Mathis 397 00:24:38.359 --> 00:24:43.640 needed defense help, he called the Johnson offer, and Rick 398 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:49.200 Johnson and his associate Wally Ecklund, another branch boy from 399 00:24:49.200 --> 00:24:53.640 that area, took on the Mathis defense And so, yeah, 400 00:24:53.680 --> 00:24:55.720 one of the and they were and their wives were 401 00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:59.799