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Speaker 1: Blue Choo for sponsoring this podcast. Hey everyone, welcome to
Speaker 1: the Teamhouse. I'm Jack Murphy here with our guest in
Speaker 1: studio today, Brad Colbert. Brad is a retired Marine served
Speaker 1: in Force Recon. You did a stint with the Royal
Speaker 1: Marines and numerous other things we'll talk about. Your platoon,
Speaker 1: of course, was the inspiration for the book and subsequent
Speaker 1: television show Generation Kill. And you have a podcast called
Speaker 1: the carry On Podcast. I do. Yeah, yeah, I well,
Speaker 1: just right off the bat, you want to tell people
Speaker 1: what that podcast is where they can find it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, carry On Podcast is available either video through YouTube
Speaker 2: or whatever platform they use to consume audio podcasts, Spotify
Speaker 2: or Apple or iHeart. And you know, we do a
Speaker 2: couple of things on the show. We talked to guests, authors,
Speaker 2: policymakers discussing current events, treatments for veterans' health, We talk
Speaker 2: about some fun equipment things, and we also look for
Speaker 2: reconnections with Generation Killed cast members to sort of give
Speaker 2: people aware they now look and maybe some stories that
Speaker 2: weren't originally portrayed in the book or the TV series.
Speaker 2: So you try to interview the Marines you served with
Speaker 2: in the platoon, and do you try to interview the
Speaker 2: actors also that portrayed them. We haven't actually had any
Speaker 2: of the actors yet, but I certainly wouldn't put it
Speaker 2: past them. I do keep in somewhat contact with the
Speaker 2: individual that portrayed me, Alex Garsguard, so maybe I can
Speaker 2: ask him if he wants to come on the show.
Speaker 1: All right, cool, well, pretty cool, we'll get We'll get
Speaker 1: deeper into all of that in a bit, but if
Speaker 1: we're to start at the top, you know, I always
Speaker 1: ask people about their origin story. Tell us a little
Speaker 1: bit about like how you grew up and what was
Speaker 1: that path that took you towards military service.
Speaker 2: Well, I had a pretty rough childhood, not because of
Speaker 2: my parents. I was just I was a pretty shitty kid.
Speaker 2: So and I think my parents would probably agree with
Speaker 2: that if I was to ask them, they may they
Speaker 2: may couch it a little differently. But I was a
Speaker 2: difficult child. I was fiercely independent. I was it's probably
Speaker 2: smarter than my own good for my own good, and
Speaker 2: I got in trouble a lot. In fact, I was
Speaker 2: expelled from every school that I ever went to. I
Speaker 2: was expelled from elementary school, which is pretty hard to do.
Speaker 2: By the way, junior high I was expelled from high school.
Speaker 2: I ended up finishing school at a military academy that
Speaker 2: was in Missouri. All that to say that I was
Speaker 2: very rebellious and I did not handle groups well, and
Speaker 2: I wanted to give myself a challenge. I wanted to
Speaker 2: find a place where I could fit in.
Speaker 3: I wanted to.
Speaker 2: I originally wanted to be and I've told this story before,
Speaker 2: but I wanted to be an astronaut. And in order
Speaker 2: to be an astronaut short all short circuit the story,
Speaker 2: most astronauts were pilots. Pilots come from the military. Okay,
Speaker 2: so I have to be an aviator. Well what do
Speaker 2: I want to fly? I want to fly at eighteen,
Speaker 2: So that's Navy or Marine Corps. And the Navy has
Speaker 2: shitty uniforms. Sorry, guys, uh Marines like that.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: And this is, you know, ten eleven years old, that's
Speaker 2: my path.
Speaker 3: And I just didn't.
Speaker 2: I didn't have the personal discipline to stay in college.
Speaker 2: I tried it for a little while after high school
Speaker 2: and just said, fit, I'm just gonna enlist.
Speaker 1: So I wanted to say, this isn't one of those
Speaker 1: scenarios where like the parents brought the Marine Corps recruiter
Speaker 1: to the home.
Speaker 2: It was like no, fine, No, In fact, it was
Speaker 2: the other way around. And again like I had a
Speaker 2: rough go of it. You know, I had got in
Speaker 2: trouble with the law. I was on unofficial probation, so
Speaker 2: I got in trouble and I had to sort of
Speaker 2: like keep my nose clean for a little while. So
Speaker 2: I went to the recruiter and their criticisy, I can't
Speaker 2: take you.
Speaker 3: You've got this.
Speaker 2: Thing, and I'm like, okay, cool, Well what do we
Speaker 2: have to do to get this thing? You have to
Speaker 2: go in front of a judge. And so I did
Speaker 2: and I got it cleared up. But I was a
Speaker 2: recruiter's wet dream because I marched right in and said
Speaker 2: I want to be you know, three to eleven infantry.
Speaker 3: That's one of those things.
Speaker 2: Where because like I don't know, I'll try to pull
Speaker 2: a few strings.
Speaker 3: We'll see what we can do, you know. You know.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, it's like that's the hardest thing they have to
Speaker 2: get people to do. I did really well in the
Speaker 2: ASVAB and he's like, there's a lot of other jobs.
Speaker 3: So I did. I enlisted. I wanted to be a
Speaker 3: ricon Marine. I knew it.
Speaker 2: If I wasn't gonna fly, that was the only other option.
Speaker 2: It is to this day, I think one of the
Speaker 2: better decisions I've ever made in my life. And it
Speaker 2: has served me well, not just in character development and
Speaker 2: personal growth and interpersonal but you know, I think it's
Speaker 2: good for the soul people who.
Speaker 3: Have done what we've done and warned.
Speaker 2: The uniform service, the sacrifice that comes with it, there
Speaker 2: is nothing else that you get anywhere in our life,
Speaker 2: sure from that experience, and I mean it was it
Speaker 2: was beautiful for me, and I did it for a
Speaker 2: long time and it was it was amazing.
Speaker 1: So what year did you enlist?
Speaker 2: Enlisted in ninety five, October of ninety five and I
Speaker 2: left in October of sixteen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so nineteen nineties Marine Corps.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 2: You know, that was still where a lot of us
Speaker 2: expected it to be, like full metal Jacket or you know,
Speaker 2: that is not what it was like at all, or
Speaker 2: Platoon or a lot of the movies that Hollywood dramaticizes
Speaker 2: Marine Corps boot Camp. I had come from doing several
Speaker 2: years at military school, and that was hard.
Speaker 3: Believe me.
Speaker 2: You know, kids can be very cruel to one another,
Speaker 2: and when you give them implied authority over each other,
Speaker 2: you talk about hazing. The Marine Corps was a walk
Speaker 2: in the park. Like I was hung upside down by
Speaker 2: my ankles the very first day I was at military
Speaker 2: school when I was fifteen years old. Like, boot camp was,
Speaker 2: you want me to stand on these yellow footprints and
Speaker 2: you're gonna scream at me for a little while. So
Speaker 2: it was fine, And I mean I found it actually
Speaker 2: to be easy. And I was also older. I was
Speaker 2: twenty one when I enlisted, in the average age, you know,
Speaker 2: seventeen and a half eighteen years old, So I had
Speaker 2: life experience, I had a little maturity.
Speaker 3: I had some.
Speaker 2: Experiences that a lot of the other recruits didn't. And
Speaker 2: I found it really fairly easy to be. To be
Speaker 2: perfectly honest, I think Marine Corps boot camp, out of
Speaker 2: all of the services, is still the most challenging. It
Speaker 2: is the longest, it has the greatest amount of attrition. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I left knowing that this is what I wanted
Speaker 2: to do. I had no regrets. And a lot of
Speaker 2: people may leave their initial entry training and say, ah.
Speaker 3: This was a mistake. No, I didn't have that, So
Speaker 3: it's good. And you shot iron sights, Yes we did, Yes,
Speaker 3: we did.
Speaker 2: And in fact, really the Marine Corps I want to say, recently,
Speaker 2: within the last couple of years transitioned away from the
Speaker 2: iron sights to using an optic. But you know, all
Speaker 2: the way back from the sixties, Marine Corps shot the
Speaker 2: M sixteen with iron sights at basic training and then
Speaker 2: every year to recall.
Speaker 1: I always bring that up. I can get marines really
Speaker 1: wound up about the iron sites. That was pretty good.
Speaker 1: But I mean to speak to the Marine Corps, I
Speaker 1: mean jokes aside, they do train. What do you shoot
Speaker 1: out the five hundred yards five hundred and basic in
Speaker 1: boot camp? Yeah, that's really good, it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's different positions.
Speaker 2: You know, you start from one hundred and then two
Speaker 2: hundred and three hundred. Each yard line is a different
Speaker 2: body position, so you know, at the shorter distances you're standing,
Speaker 2: and then you're doing kneeling, and then prone at five hundred.
Speaker 2: But make no mistake, shooting a high score on iron
Speaker 2: sights in the prone it's.
Speaker 3: Still it's it's not easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, five hundred you're struggling to see the target.
Speaker 3: You are struggling to see the target.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I mean shooting iron sights again jokes aside, Like,
Speaker 1: it is really good to learn all the fundamentals like that, and.
Speaker 2: The Marine Corps is huge into that. That adage of
Speaker 2: every Marine is a rifle or rifle person, whatever the
Speaker 2: adage is today, I mean, it holds true and I
Speaker 2: think that is something that some of the other services
Speaker 2: are struggling with you when it comes to identity. You know,
Speaker 2: every Marine is a rifleman. So what about the Air Force?
Speaker 2: What do you say, is every.
Speaker 1: They're not a violot?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So the Marine Corps I think nailed it
Speaker 2: pretty early and has kept consistent.
Speaker 3: All this time. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So after you graduate from boot camp, what unit do
Speaker 1: you get assigned to?
Speaker 2: So after boot camp, you you I went to infantry
Speaker 2: school because I didn't list as an three to eleven
Speaker 2: at that time, or the reconnaissance CA community was what
Speaker 2: we would call a secondary MLS right right, yep. You
Speaker 2: couldn't get into recon at the point of enlistment. There
Speaker 2: was a pathway, so you had to be in the
Speaker 2: combat arms, preferably three to eleven, and then you had
Speaker 2: to try out and go to selection and pass selection,
Speaker 2: which I did. I did that at the School of Infantry,
Speaker 2: which was another three months of training at Camp Pendleton,
Speaker 2: and then from there my first unit was a third
Speaker 2: reconnaissance company in Okinawa, Japan.
Speaker 1: Oh cool. I didn't realize that back then you could
Speaker 1: go kind of like straight into the recon community.
Speaker 2: You could, provided that you passed assessment and selection.
Speaker 1: Yep, out there at Paras Island.
Speaker 2: Well, this would have been Camp Pendleton, but they had both.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gotcha, got yah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They had screening teams that would go around and screen people.
Speaker 2: They try to get them as early as possible before
Speaker 2: the unit scoops them up because once they get embedded
Speaker 2: into an infantry unit, those units are very reluctant watching.
Speaker 2: You want to take our best, our highers, our smartest people.
Speaker 2: There was a GT requirement, so there's a general technical
Speaker 2: score that the ASVAB will kick out. So when you
Speaker 2: go to the recruiting office, you have to take a
Speaker 2: test and it assessed to you on all these different things.
Speaker 2: Part of that test is a general technical score which
Speaker 2: rates your aptitude for you know, cognition and a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of other factors. It's a number. Recon needs that
Speaker 2: number to be you know, one fifteen or above, and
Speaker 2: you need to have a high PFT your physical fitness test.
Speaker 2: So if you go to an infantry unit, they're gonna
Speaker 2: probably hide you, like, no, you're not leaving. So they
Speaker 2: go to the school of Infantry where you're not yet
Speaker 2: assigned to a unit, and they screen you there.
Speaker 1: So you get to the recon community and do you
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about like what the
Speaker 1: difference was at that time between recon and force.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really there was a huge cultural difference
Speaker 2: and one that was rigid. It's a lot of people
Speaker 2: at that time would say, you know, the reconnaissance community
Speaker 2: is the JV team and the force reconnaissance community is
Speaker 2: the varsity team. And I would say that's really childish
Speaker 2: to categorize it like that.
Speaker 3: Guys, we both go through the same schools.
Speaker 2: It really comes down to mission sets. The force reconnaissance
Speaker 2: unit typically operates outside of the artillery fan, so we're
Speaker 2: talking you know, close air support range. They support a MEF,
Speaker 2: which is a higher echelon of table of organization. The
Speaker 2: reconnaissance community works within the artillery fan, so up to
Speaker 2: thirty kilometers in most cases and works for the division.
Speaker 2: I mean that doctrinately. That's your difference now.
Speaker 3: Culturally, night and day.
Speaker 2: They didn't like us, We didn't like them. We wanted
Speaker 2: to go over to the forest recon force. Recon felt
Speaker 2: that they were you know, we're we're up here.
Speaker 3: You figure it out.
Speaker 2: And there was another vetting process, you know, you have
Speaker 2: to screen again.
Speaker 3: They usually took you when you were a little senior.
Speaker 2: You know, now you're an E five maybe an E four,
Speaker 2: and they wanted you to have a little experience.
Speaker 3: Under your belt.
Speaker 2: And I looking back, I understand the need for that
Speaker 2: type of progression, but there was a huge difference in culture.
Speaker 2: Now it's a little more homogeneous. Both of those units
Speaker 2: are now organized pretty much under the same house because
Speaker 2: of Mars Sock's creation.
Speaker 3: But you know, in the nineties it was a different
Speaker 3: Marine Corps.
Speaker 2: They also had better equipment in many cases because they
Speaker 2: had access to a little bit more money. And we
Speaker 2: were still coming off of the heels of not really
Speaker 2: understanding what would be over the horizon, right right, Like
Speaker 2: you know, we always trained for the last war, so
Speaker 2: we still did a lot of jungle.
Speaker 3: Tactics, patrol based activities.
Speaker 2: We did a lot of things that we did in
Speaker 2: Southeast Asia that we would not be doing in oif OEF.
Speaker 2: But the forest reconnaissance community still had, you know, the
Speaker 2: Chenniworth dune buggies. They had a lot of the equipment
Speaker 2: that you just we don't use anymore and a mission
Speaker 2: set to go along with it. Not that it's still
Speaker 2: not pertinent, but it's not as pertinent, you know, especially
Speaker 2: modern warfare with drones.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so what did they have you doing in
Speaker 1: recon at that time? Did you end up going to Thailand?
Speaker 1: Anything cool like that?
Speaker 2: Did a lot of cobra golds, did some marine expeditionary
Speaker 2: units if that's when you go on ship. A lot
Speaker 2: of people don't realize that the Marine Corps has an
Speaker 2: infantry battalion up to three at any given time patrolling
Speaker 2: the waters of the ocean, available for immediate dispersion anywhere
Speaker 2: that the president deems they're needed. And Okinawa has a
Speaker 2: MEW and I did that to why I did a
Speaker 2: special purpose MAGTAFF, a Marine Air Ground Task Force to China.
Speaker 2: So we went into China for about a week and
Speaker 2: a half into the port of Quing Down. This was
Speaker 2: the first time that Marines had been to China since
Speaker 2: World War Two.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the Boxer Rebellion.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yep, the China Marines were the last Marines to
Speaker 2: be there, and it was surreal we could.
Speaker 3: We went on Liberty. We worked.
Speaker 2: It was a working port call, but we were allowed
Speaker 2: to leave the ship in groups and we went out
Speaker 2: into the city and I remember, I'm wearing my my well,
Speaker 2: we would call them Charlie's your class C uniform. So
Speaker 2: khaki long sleeve shirt, no, I tell a lie, sorry,
Speaker 2: short sleeve shirts, no tie, green trousers, piss cutter hat. Oh,
Speaker 2: I couldn't say that should It doesn't matter. We're walking
Speaker 2: around and the Chinese had not in many cases seen
Speaker 2: Americans before. They certainly hadn't seen Marines. And I'm walking
Speaker 2: and people would come up to me and they would
Speaker 2: stroke my arm because of the you know, the body hair,
Speaker 2: because they're just not used to seeing that. They were fascinating.
Speaker 2: Strangers were calling us into their homes. They just wanted
Speaker 2: to talk, they wanted to practice their English, they wanted
Speaker 2: to offer us food, and so we couldn't. You we
Speaker 2: wanted to go on Liberty, but you couldn't. Is you're
Speaker 2: just getting mobbed. But it was amazing and it was fascinating.
Speaker 2: And this was ninety seven, and I remember we pulled
Speaker 2: into the port and I'm looking around at their ships
Speaker 2: and their subs or just rusted at the water lines.
Speaker 2: Their surface fleet was not in great shape.
Speaker 1: I was young, but I.
Speaker 3: Was pretty.
Speaker 2: Into military hardware, tables of organizations. So I'm looking around
Speaker 2: and I'm like, these guys are not in great shape.
Speaker 2: Now fast forward, they are arguably ahead of us in
Speaker 2: many of those same categories. They have incredible growth in
Speaker 2: their military industrial conflict. But back then, we toured their ships,
Speaker 2: we did some exchange, and they were not a concern.
Speaker 1: I was gonna yeah, I was gonna say, I mean,
Speaker 1: first off, that's something that would never happen today. There's
Speaker 1: no way that have marines going on Liberty and China. Yeah.
Speaker 3: By then, I mean, just what.
Speaker 1: A couple of years after this, we had that surveillance
Speaker 1: bird yep, go down with Hanan Island.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, yeah, I'm not I'm pretty sure that's
Speaker 2: the name of it. It was a bit of an embarrassment.
Speaker 3: We did.
Speaker 2: Get it cleared up diplomatically, but you know, there was
Speaker 2: also there were some other instances as well. There were
Speaker 2: some missile tests that they had done against Taiwan that
Speaker 2: covered the straight We did some GPS jamming that caused
Speaker 2: those missiles to splash into the water. They were horribly
Speaker 2: angry about that. They knew that it was us, but
Speaker 2: you know, neither publicly admitted it because they didn't want
Speaker 2: to save they didn't want egg on their face. So
Speaker 2: there were a couple of things. Yeah, you're right, it
Speaker 2: wouldn't get done today. But what an amazing experience for
Speaker 2: me out of the uniform. We got to go see
Speaker 2: the Great Wall of China, got to go to the
Speaker 2: National Art Gallery, Tanneman Square, the Forbidden City.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: That's so awesome, man.
Speaker 2: I mean, like, that's one of the great things about
Speaker 2: the military, is that those intangibles, those travel opportunities, You can't.
Speaker 3: Get that anywhere else.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of sad that something like that
Speaker 1: wouldn't happen today.
Speaker 3: It is.
Speaker 2: It is because I get that there are adversary, but
Speaker 2: there's a lot of opportunity there as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a culture that's been more or
Speaker 1: less intact for like a thousand years, right, I wouldn't Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: I wouldn't go as a private citizen. I'm afraid of
Speaker 1: you know, it's like.
Speaker 3: Going to Russia.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what's gonna happen. Not gonna do that, Not gonna
Speaker 1: do that. I'm fascinated about, like the history and the culture.
Speaker 1: I think it's super cool.
Speaker 3: It is, it's incredible.
Speaker 2: I mean, they do have and it's there's very similar
Speaker 2: parallels with Japan as well. It's a very rich culture
Speaker 2: with a long history. And you know, China for many
Speaker 2: centuries was the cultural epicenter of the world. They created
Speaker 2: a lot of and as did those in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: you know, and then somewhere along the way, things just
Speaker 2: oh we're going to do communism.
Speaker 3: Okay, cool, cool.
Speaker 1: I so.
Speaker 3: You're in recon.
Speaker 1: When did kind of you get the opportunity to start
Speaker 1: thinking and thinking action about going to force.
Speaker 2: It was actually kind of an accident, really, and I
Speaker 2: didn't spend to be perfectly honest with you, I really
Speaker 2: didn't spend that much time.
Speaker 3: In the force community.
Speaker 2: I I dipped my toe into it because when I
Speaker 2: left the British World Marine Exchange Program in oh.
Speaker 3: Seven, six oh seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was assigned to First Force, but only for
Speaker 2: about six months before.
Speaker 3: MARSK stood up, gotcha?
Speaker 2: And then I found myself back with First Reconnaissance Battalion.
Speaker 2: And then they stood up the Force company in First
Speaker 2: Reconnaissance Battalion because you know, there was MARSOC, so they
Speaker 2: took what was first Force. You're now MARSK. But we
Speaker 2: need a group of you to be the force that job.
Speaker 2: We don't know what we're gonna call it yet, And
Speaker 2: that's what I did. So was I still Force?
Speaker 3: Was I not?
Speaker 2: I guess it's I know it's a matter of semantics.
Speaker 2: But in a very short time I found myself as
Speaker 2: a platoon sergeant going back over to Iraq and seven
Speaker 2: so my stint in Force was fairly short, just because
Speaker 2: of the circumstances. You know, uh, three years in England
Speaker 2: with the commandos right on the heels of the of
Speaker 2: Iraq and then Marsk changing in six so maybe seven
Speaker 2: months with Force, maybe another three at the reconnaissance battalion
Speaker 2: in a forced platoon.
Speaker 3: That was it.
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Speaker 1: you're in ricon. What was sort of like the experience
Speaker 1: like being in recon when nine to eleven happened? That
Speaker 1: was that was.
Speaker 3: Everyone has there. Where were you when nine to eleven happens? Story? Right?
Speaker 2: That is the where were you when Kennedy was assassinated?
Speaker 2: Version of our generation? For me, I was on a
Speaker 2: marine deployment. I was on a Marine expeditionary unit. So
Speaker 2: we were in the coast of Sorry, we were in Darwin,
Speaker 2: Australia when nine to eleven happened. And as one of
Speaker 2: the platoons, I'm trying to think if the Seals, I
Speaker 2: don't remember. If the Seals, I'm sure they were back then, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they were. So we had a force platoon, we had
Speaker 2: a reconnaissance platoon. I'm pretty confident we had a seal
Speaker 2: platoon as well. So I think those three groups were
Speaker 2: pretty confident that we were going to do something, and
Speaker 2: we were right.
Speaker 3: We all did separate things, but.
Speaker 2: I don't think any of us were privy to any
Speaker 2: more intelligence than anyone else was privy to.
Speaker 1: I mean, the world was on CNN.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was pretty much open source and then
Speaker 2: whatever you know, the captain of the ship was being
Speaker 2: told and whatever the battalion commander was being told. It
Speaker 2: was surreal though, being forward deployed when nine to eleven
Speaker 2: happened was surreal.
Speaker 1: And what did you guys end up doing? What was
Speaker 1: the Marine Corps response to it, and those you know
Speaker 1: weeks and months after.
Speaker 3: Well, we immediately pulled, we sailed out of port.
Speaker 2: That it was late when it happened in Darwin, so
Speaker 2: it was probably twenty I want to say twenty three hundred.
Speaker 2: Liberty expired at midnight. They were dragging people back to
Speaker 2: the boat, half drunk. Nobody would say what was taking place.
Speaker 2: They're seeing some things in the news on the bars.
Speaker 2: From what I gathered, bringing the ship's compliment back was
Speaker 2: a nightmare. I was already on the boat. The next
Speaker 2: day we left. We weighed Anchor and we basically went.
Speaker 2: No one knew what had taken place. Was this the
Speaker 2: opening shot of a war? Is this some kind of
Speaker 2: asymmetrical attack that is going to repeat itself? So we
Speaker 2: left and went into the open waters fifty sixty one
Speaker 2: hundred miles off the coast and just cut squares for
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks. Then we went into Eastmoor did
Speaker 2: a humanitarian mission, and then it was in very short
Speaker 2: order apparent that we were going to go into Afghanistan.
Speaker 2: They were the ones responsible.
Speaker 3: So we made an amphibious landing into well.
Speaker 2: We hung out in Pakistan for a while at an
Speaker 2: air base, and then we did an amphibious assault into Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: And it was amphibious assault into Afghanistan. Right.
Speaker 2: The technical amphibious assault was because we departed from ship
Speaker 2: and we landed in Afghanistan, and that by definition is amphibious,
Speaker 2: and it's the longest amphibious assault that's ever.
Speaker 3: Been made in the history of American right.
Speaker 1: Right, So you had to refuel a few times in
Speaker 1: the air on the way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Also one of the scariest flights I've ever had.
Speaker 3: We landed at Camp Rhino, which was.
Speaker 2: A compound in the middle of the desert. It was
Speaker 2: a hunting preserve for some very rich individuals, but it
Speaker 2: had a private runway, unimproved runway. It had a big hangar,
Speaker 2: it had a little mosque, it had all these ancillary buildings,
Speaker 2: and it was surrounded by this wall. And we're like,
Speaker 2: that's it. So see one thirty. I mean we are packed.
Speaker 2: In no doubt you've been on a sea one thirty before.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've done a mass tack, but
Speaker 2: it's that kind of cramped. And I mean you're you
Speaker 2: got your gear, your pack is on your legs, and
Speaker 2: you can't move. And we flew high threat tactics, which
Speaker 2: means you're assuming you're gonna get a lot of ground fire.
Speaker 2: There's also gonna be a surface to air missile threat.
Speaker 2: So you gotta fly basically nap of the earth. So
Speaker 2: see one thirty. We did receive some ground fire, we
Speaker 2: don't know where, but the plane did get shot a
Speaker 2: little bit, But that wasn't the problem. It's you're going
Speaker 2: from this really high altitude and then it goes screaming
Speaker 2: down to like a thousand feet and you're just startined in.
Speaker 3: You can't move, and then the runway is made of
Speaker 3: this moondust.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what I'm talking about, because you've walked that.
Speaker 3: You sink into it. It's up to your ankles.
Speaker 2: But here's a C one thirty, fully loaded, full bag
Speaker 2: of gas and it's coming in on this runway and
Speaker 2: it's not getting purchased and it's just sliding and yawing,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, this is it. This is how
Speaker 2: it's gonna end. The plane is gonna clip the ground,
Speaker 2: it's gonna cartwheel, and I'm wedged in between you know,
Speaker 2: sixty other fuckers.
Speaker 3: I'm done. This is this is it.
Speaker 2: This is my story. It didn't turn out that way.
Speaker 1: I mean, spoil alert. This is basically kind of what
Speaker 1: happened to the UH one thirties in Iran. Yeah, a
Speaker 1: few months ago they got stuck in the dust, essentially
Speaker 1: sunk in because of that whatever.
Speaker 3: It's that certain type of soil, it's unique.
Speaker 2: And then you know, so fast forward. I had a
Speaker 2: guest on the show, Alexander Lemons, and he did some
Speaker 2: research to find that the soil in Iraq is unique
Speaker 2: from all of the soil in the world. I know
Speaker 2: that we're talking about Anastana. There's some property about this
Speaker 2: particular type of sand where it just recirculates due to
Speaker 2: the you know, the the dust storms and stuff that
Speaker 2: does something to grind it down. But yeah, so I
Speaker 2: ran Afghanistan, Iraq, it's all that same type of dirt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was over.
Speaker 1: It didn't turn out though, and so you guys kind
Speaker 1: of spearheaded into Camp Ryno, we did.
Speaker 2: Yes, there was US, and then it turned into like
Speaker 2: the who's who of special Operations forces because it became
Speaker 2: the beachhead for everyone to flow in. So there was
Speaker 2: you know, British Sas, there was Australian, there were French,
Speaker 2: there was German clearly the Marines, UH Navy Special Forces.
Speaker 2: There was I think for a very brief time, I
Speaker 2: want to say, there was an ODA team, but it
Speaker 2: all kind of blends in at this point we're talking
Speaker 2: oh one, and we ran operations out of there. The
Speaker 2: infantry was dug around the perimeter.
Speaker 3: It was just weird. You know.
Speaker 2: It was weird because nobody enlists in the military under
Speaker 2: any illusion that you are not going to potentially go
Speaker 2: to war, right, But I enlisted in ninety five.
Speaker 3: There was no war taking place.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had some people that were concerned, but
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, that's you know, Nicaragua, or that's
Speaker 2: you know, Somali, or that's right. The United States getting
Speaker 2: attacked on its home turf and then retaliating was it
Speaker 2: was unheard of.
Speaker 1: And then finding yourself in like such a third world country,
Speaker 1: what's going on here?
Speaker 3: It was so weird.
Speaker 2: And we didn't have any of the equipment to really
Speaker 2: do this type of thing. You know, you're still wearing
Speaker 2: We had just transitioned. We didn't have them yet, but
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps just transitioned to that new digital pattern.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: We still had the old classic tricolor woodland pattern or
Speaker 2: chocolate chip like ninety one chocolate chip desert storm. So
Speaker 2: that's what we had, and that was our desert uniform.
Speaker 2: And we didn't have vehicles that were really tailored towards
Speaker 2: what we were doing, which was you know, some long
Speaker 2: range desert patrol. We didn't have the we didn't have
Speaker 2: the equipment for it, so I mean we made it work,
Speaker 2: but it was very weird.
Speaker 1: I remember working with Marines and this was a little
Speaker 1: later on. This would have been well two thousand and
Speaker 1: four Marine Infantry, and I mean they had like one
Speaker 1: pair of nods per squad. They didn't have any sort
Speaker 1: of organic or intelligence attached to their battalion. And there's
Speaker 1: again not trying to throw shade on them, it's just
Speaker 1: they didn't have a lot.
Speaker 2: The infantry operates under very austere conditions. They always have
Speaker 2: so much so that it's really a point of pride
Speaker 2: to them at this point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like.
Speaker 2: We can do everything with nothing. And the marine reconnaissance
Speaker 2: came had a lot more.
Speaker 3: It did.
Speaker 2: But now when you compare Marine recon or even the
Speaker 2: force platoon to say a ranger battalion or an ODA
Speaker 2: team or you know CAG oh yeah, like night and day,
Speaker 2: like don't even get it started. But we did have
Speaker 2: more equipment. You know, we had some laser range finders,
Speaker 2: laser designators. Everybody had MVG's, we had M four's, we
Speaker 2: had suppressors, we had a lot more hardware than your
Speaker 2: run of the mill.
Speaker 3: And we had reach back.
Speaker 2: And that was one of the things that reconnaissance is
Speaker 2: able to do in the Marine Corps is you're in
Speaker 2: all of the other services put an officer in charge
Speaker 2: of their smaller SF units.
Speaker 3: The Marine Corps doesn't run that way.
Speaker 2: Now MARSK does, but there was no MARSOC in O one,
Speaker 2: so this was six enlisted marines with an E five
Speaker 2: in charge. You will go out to twenty kilometers and
Speaker 2: get eyes on a target and then we want you
Speaker 2: to talk to that aircraft overhead and lays ordinance on it.
Speaker 2: Can you do that? Yes, I can do that. The
Speaker 2: Marine Corps is the only one that does business that way.
Speaker 2: It's a tremendous responsibility.
Speaker 1: And then we took seriously they're sending you out on
Speaker 1: those kinds of missions. Yeah, oh, what was that like
Speaker 1: going out there and not like now it's for real.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now it's for real, And it was It was
Speaker 2: fun because you're finally getting to play the game you
Speaker 2: have practiced for, right you know, it is that pro
Speaker 2: athlete who never gets off the bench and now finally
Speaker 2: I'm off the bench.
Speaker 3: Let's see what it's about.
Speaker 2: But it's also incredibly naive because you hadn't been shot
Speaker 2: at yet, you didn't understand any of the fog of war.
Speaker 2: It was very sterile in many cases because the desert
Speaker 2: was the only opposition that we had. We did drive
Speaker 2: into a minefield at one point, that was interesting. We
Speaker 2: did call in some ordinance on occasion that was fun,
Speaker 2: but a lot of it was just spent doing what
Speaker 2: reconnaissance marines do, which is quietly getting eyes on and
Speaker 2: just reporting.
Speaker 3: But it was fun.
Speaker 2: It was really a relief to be able to finally
Speaker 2: do what we had always practiced.
Speaker 1: And were you guys inserting on Humvi's like walking, setting
Speaker 1: up an observation post and that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: Humphy, we had a single hum vy for the six
Speaker 2: of us and we would drive it out there, leave it,
Speaker 2: camouflage it, make the rest of the movement on foot,
Speaker 2: establish an observation post, and then monitor and it was
Speaker 2: a lot of monitoring MSRs. You know, we understood Taliban
Speaker 2: at that point, we understood who our enemy was. I'm
Speaker 2: talking strategically, and the infantry battalion had a CIA case
Speaker 2: officer assigned to them when we went in. So we
Speaker 2: were getting intelligence, you know, the larger we from a
Speaker 2: couple of different sources, military intelligence as well as the
Speaker 2: intelligence community at large. And it was early on in one,
Speaker 2: so the sky was just filled. I mean they were
Speaker 2: dropping two thousand pounders off. You could you could see
Speaker 2: the light flashes right, So there was a massive air campaign.
Speaker 2: But overhead you had all kinds of enablers, all kinds.
Speaker 3: I mean we would see.
Speaker 2: The planes overhead and then you could just you could
Speaker 2: pick up the radio and talk to the a wax
Speaker 2: or you know, talk to the command control bird. If
Speaker 2: there was fixed wing aircraft checking in, they would push
Speaker 2: it to you and it was that was pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, any of those operations that kind of got a
Speaker 1: little dicey, I don't think. So.
Speaker 3: There was there was a firefight with the forest platoon.
Speaker 2: They were out and they got into a bit of
Speaker 2: a scrape.
Speaker 3: Should they have is.
Speaker 2: A matter of some disagreement. I know the guys that
Speaker 2: were there at that time, they did exchange, they did
Speaker 2: get into a firefight. But nothing, I don't remember anything
Speaker 2: that was like dicey other than our own our own dangerousness.
Speaker 3: We were I've told this story before.
Speaker 2: We modified the hum vy with a pintle mount to
Speaker 2: hold the beltfit.
Speaker 3: Okay, when I say we.
Speaker 2: Modified it, we took a piece of tubular steel, we
Speaker 2: welded a flat plate on the bottom, and then we
Speaker 2: took the caster off a refrigerator and welded it to
Speaker 2: the top. That allowed for a swivel which the gun
Speaker 2: sat on with a pin through it. You now have
Speaker 2: a pintle mount. Once it's ratchet strapped to the humby
Speaker 2: any machine gunner knows that you have a device under
Speaker 2: the barrel or attached to the weapon in such a
Speaker 2: way called a traverse in elevation, it's a fixed piece
Speaker 2: of metal that keeps the barrel from free flowing.
Speaker 3: We didn't have that.
Speaker 2: So there was a gun in the bed of the
Speaker 2: humvee which could pivot to shoot the floor of the
Speaker 2: humvee or between the driver and the a driver. And
Speaker 2: there was a moment where the gun was used and
Speaker 2: it was like, oh my god, you just riddled the
Speaker 2: hood of the hum V and it was between me
Speaker 2: and the a driver of the hum V and I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh God, this is so fucking stupid. That was the
Speaker 2: worst thing I think that took place as far as
Speaker 2: the enemy contact and anything. Now, Now, there were some
Speaker 2: other very surreal moments, like getting into Kandahart Airport and
Speaker 2: we did watch one of the marine infantry step on
Speaker 2: a mine and get blown up. There was a couple
Speaker 2: of other instances as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a period of time, I guess a
Speaker 1: brief period of time when the Tale band was essentially
Speaker 1: defeated or maybe some hold doubts we were still looking
Speaker 1: for and there were really wasn't an ied threat. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yet it was nice because that changed, and it changed
Speaker 2: relatively quick. I mean, any any adversary that is going
Speaker 2: to survive will learn asymmetric warfare against the United States.
Speaker 2: I mean that is the only way that you were
Speaker 2: going to survive. And it's not just unique to the
Speaker 2: American culture. And Ukraine's doing it against Russia right now.
Speaker 2: And yeah, it was a matter of time, but in
Speaker 2: one there was no there was no such animal.
Speaker 3: That was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and tell us about rotating back home from that trip.
Speaker 3: That was great.
Speaker 2: It was so weird too, because I compare my retrograde
Speaker 2: from one and my retrograde from like the Iraq War
Speaker 2: and three complete night and day. I mean when we
Speaker 2: went into Afghanistan, we went in with a full combat load.
Speaker 2: I mean, freaking you name it. It was like shopping cart.
Speaker 2: I want one of those, and I'll take two claymores,
Speaker 2: and I'll take that law rocket. I need seven fragmentation grenades. Nope,
Speaker 2: not enough ammo more. We never downloaded that stuff. Like
Speaker 2: we got out of Afghanistan on a helicopter and then
Speaker 2: leap frog back to Pakistan and from Pakistan back to
Speaker 2: the ship and we've just got our pack is filled
Speaker 2: with stuff like I mean, just stuff, man, and our
Speaker 2: douce gear filled with AMMO and fragmentation grenades and I've
Speaker 2: got two of three rounds. I mean, I just and
Speaker 2: it just all gets dumped into a quad coun and
Speaker 2: that quad con gets closed up, not locked, not secured,
Speaker 2: not like sign here, just hey, go put your gear
Speaker 2: in your team quad con. And then it gets back
Speaker 2: to Pendleton and it's like, you know, that's all full
Speaker 2: of AMMO, right, and explosives and C four and claymores
Speaker 2: and rocket launchers. We should probably turn that into the armory. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: we'll do that. We were the only platoon to see
Speaker 2: any kind of combat any kind and make no illusions.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that we you know, were six months
Speaker 2: constantly getting shot at. It was it was a very
Speaker 2: short period of time, and for all intents and purposes, it.
Speaker 3: Was pretty innocuous. But we were the first platoon to
Speaker 3: see combat.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So you walk back to a unit who is
Speaker 2: operating at a very high level and is itching to
Speaker 2: get some from nine to eleven, and you're treated like
Speaker 2: I don't want to say heroes because that's not what
Speaker 2: I'm saying, but you are definitely like you're the cock
Speaker 2: of the walk right now. Yeah, we want to hear
Speaker 2: what happened. We want to hear your lessons learned. We
Speaker 2: want a pmme. You're going to talk to everybody. What
Speaker 2: did you do, how did you do it? What worked,
Speaker 2: what didn't work? And in the process of articulating all that,
Speaker 2: I started absorbing all of those lessons because I'm now,
Speaker 2: you know, it's an oral story. This is what worked,
Speaker 2: this is what works in the planning process. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: technique right there, Screw that, that doesn't work. So now
Speaker 2: I have this great database of things that we fast
Speaker 2: forward to three and I'm like, okay, this is what
Speaker 2: needs to change. We are going into Iraq. We can't
Speaker 2: do this, but we are going to keep this. This
Speaker 2: needs to change. And that made all the difference in
Speaker 2: the world.
Speaker 1: When you got back home, were you already hearing stuff
Speaker 1: about Iraq a little bit? Yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: There was discussions about Iran while we were still in Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: There was a.
Speaker 2: Lot of talk on the on the high side about
Speaker 2: possibly remaining and just crossing the border into Iran.
Speaker 3: We're going to do the rest of the Middle East.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, let's just let's just get it taken care of.
Speaker 2: And I think, my god, how different would the world
Speaker 2: be today if that had actually come true.
Speaker 1: The Iranians were scared shitless after nine to eleven, not
Speaker 1: because they were involved, but they were afraid We're going
Speaker 1: to catch them with retaliation from this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a lot of blowback and a lot
Speaker 2: of people were, like you said, running scared because we
Speaker 2: were not messing around. The United States was on a
Speaker 2: war footing, and we don't get on war footings very often.
Speaker 2: I mean, we will get into engagements, but as a country,
Speaker 2: we were galvanized. Everybody, I mean, especially this city.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's something about like the American character
Speaker 1: and I mean when you get the entire country pissed off,
Speaker 1: like we'll do scary stuff, We'll do stupid stuff too,
Speaker 1: I mean, and yeah, it's like I have this conversation
Speaker 1: with people sometimes that about Taiwan that people are like, well,
Speaker 1: we're not going to go and fight over like some
Speaker 1: rocks that you can barely see at low tide and
Speaker 1: the south of China seed. It's like, yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: get that, You're right, we wouldn't. But if an American
Speaker 1: aircraft carrier gets sunk in the South China Sea, yes,
Speaker 1: this entire country will go batshit.
Speaker 2: It's five thousand people, that's more than we lost in
Speaker 2: nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people will lose it.
Speaker 2: Yes they will. They absolutely well. And it's a conversation
Speaker 2: that I've had on my show as well with some
Speaker 2: policy experts who are that's their job to talk about
Speaker 2: that subject and not to get you off track. But
Speaker 2: the most likely scenario is China blockade's Taiwan and we
Speaker 2: are forced to somehow try to break that blockade? What
Speaker 2: does that look like in a Berlin style airlift service?
Speaker 2: But their response, their most likely co is probably going
Speaker 2: to be just that, and God help them if they
Speaker 2: sink one of our aircraft carriers. Yeah, that's that is
Speaker 2: a red line that you don't come back from. And
Speaker 2: I talk more about you can theorize what the battle
Speaker 2: is going to look like. That is great, and that's academic.
Speaker 2: I don't care about that. I want to know what
Speaker 2: is the world going to look like after? What does
Speaker 2: this do to the globe? How does it peace out
Speaker 2: different countries? What is the alignmance is going to look like?
Speaker 2: You know, what is six months, nine months, a year
Speaker 2: after Taiwan?
Speaker 1: Do?
Speaker 3: That's what I think is interesting?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean the same question for Iran right now? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, loging that. So talk us through a little bit
Speaker 3: the ramp up for Iraq.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we had a period of time after Afghanistan.
Speaker 3: We get back. We we.
Speaker 2: You know, we do all of the post deployment things
Speaker 2: like put all your gear away, you know, go talk
Speaker 2: to the shrink, take all your welcome back classes, and
Speaker 2: then you need to take some leave, you know, and
Speaker 2: you go on leave and you do all the things
Speaker 2: and then it's business as usual. We went back into
Speaker 2: a training cycle. I went to a couple of schools,
Speaker 2: but we knew that there was something coming and it
Speaker 2: was definitely on the front of everyone's minds, and we formed.
Speaker 2: You know, people rotate in, people rotate out. We formed
Speaker 2: a new platoon with new leadership, and we start preparing
Speaker 2: for ground operations. We start preparing for Iraq. It was
Speaker 2: it was known that we would be that that was
Speaker 2: the target. It wasn't you matriculated down like this is
Speaker 2: the line of departure and this is where we're going
Speaker 2: to stay. But it was like, that's the X, that
Speaker 2: is the target. So we started practicing a lot more
Speaker 2: vehicle ops. We started modifying the vehicles.
Speaker 3: I got my.
Speaker 2: Vehicle prepared to do what I knew based off Iraq
Speaker 2: or Afghanistan it would be needed to do.
Speaker 3: And we practice.
Speaker 2: I mean that's what you do, right, You train vehicle
Speaker 2: operations and contact drills and downdriver and.
Speaker 3: All of the other things.
Speaker 2: And then medicine, I mean lots of medicine. And once
Speaker 2: we had a date for deployment, that really I think
Speaker 2: solidified everybody's resolve because it's like, Okay, it's real.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is not some buzzword.
Speaker 2: It's not something to rally the truth, like, oh, we're
Speaker 2: going and this is the date that we're leaving, and
Speaker 2: I think because it's not just a platoon now, and
Speaker 2: it's not just a potential, it's real, and we're taking everybody.
Speaker 2: The whole battalion is going, you know, a couple one hundred,
Speaker 2: very well trained men are going into with the rest
Speaker 2: of the US military into this little country and we're gonna,
Speaker 2: we're gonna take it over. And I remember, and I
Speaker 2: don't know how your experience was, but I just remember
Speaker 2: the sheer number of body bags they ordered, oh shit,
Speaker 2: because they expected massive casualties. I mean massive casualties was
Speaker 2: expected anticipated not I mean, I'm not talking about for
Speaker 2: the Marine Corps or First Reconnaissance Battalion. I just mean
Speaker 2: the US military. They were expecting a lot of casualties.
Speaker 2: There was anticipation of anthrax, yeah, chemical right, So we
Speaker 2: go before two thousand and three, the full anthrax regime,
Speaker 2: which was an eighteen month shot sequence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was like six or seven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a lot. And I think we had
Speaker 2: two people in the unit that refused and were they
Speaker 2: were out, they were gone because it was non negotiable.
Speaker 2: This isn't COVID like you're gonna be taking anthrax.
Speaker 3: And it's so weird. I mean, just to go down
Speaker 3: a rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: How different everybody's attitudes were towards Anthrax compared to COVID.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no one gave no, one gave second thought.
Speaker 2: No, like completely untested, untried, experimental anthrax. Uh and you
Speaker 2: compared to COVID, which had rigid Anyways, it's not important.
Speaker 1: It was I was so fortunate that I got the
Speaker 1: Anthrax series, and but it wasn't recorded in my records.
Speaker 1: So I got it like one point five times. You know,
Speaker 1: I probably got like twelve instead.
Speaker 2: You're extra inoculated or extra your DNA screwed up?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Probably I'm pretty screwed up. You know, it's a good
Speaker 1: thing I'm registered with VA. I'm probably gonna get something
Speaker 1: weird down the line.
Speaker 2: Like I seem to remember something about you couldn't donate
Speaker 2: blood for a period of time after the anthrax vaccine.
Speaker 1: That was also depending on certain parts of the world
Speaker 1: that they've sent us Tokay, if you were like probably
Speaker 1: Afghanistan and was one of them. But I remember I've
Speaker 1: heard that story. Also, Oh, you've been hanging out in
Speaker 1: Central Africa for six months.
Speaker 3: Like, nah, we're not taking your blood.
Speaker 2: I had so many inoculations though, like from all of
Speaker 2: the different places that I had been to. And that's
Speaker 2: one of the things that blows my mind because again, tangentle,
Speaker 2: I worked in my last job with all former military guys,
Speaker 2: you know, and when the COVID kerfuffle came, everybody starts
Speaker 2: complaining about it. I'm like, really, I know where you
Speaker 2: guys all served. I know what your shot records look like.
Speaker 2: You've had like twenty five vaccinations for stuff that is
Speaker 2: one in a billion chance you're ever going to ge
Speaker 2: like Japanese encephalitis, and god knows.
Speaker 1: What it's I mean, it really is dependent on the
Speaker 1: person's idea, diet and what they're consuming and what they're hearing.
Speaker 1: Because yeah, we went through basic training or boot camp.
Speaker 1: We lined up and they had the sun and they
Speaker 1: injected us with all kinds of shit. I don't know
Speaker 1: what the hell I want, no idea? Yeah, yeah, you
Speaker 1: remember the shot that they put in your ass cheek
Speaker 1: where it's like they're inject like it feels like there's
Speaker 1: a golf ball peanut butter.
Speaker 2: It feels like like somebody is injecting peanut butter into it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't I don't remember what that shot is for.
Speaker 1: We got smallpox too, which Americans don't get except for military.
Speaker 2: Yep, I remember my smallpox vaccinations. Still have the scar
Speaker 2: from it. I'm sure we all do. And so like
Speaker 2: all of that stuff, right, it was all part of
Speaker 2: the work up to that three invasion, and because we
Speaker 2: expected the royal we so many casualties from Kim. A
Speaker 2: lot of people didn't know any better. I don't want
Speaker 2: to say didn't know any better because they were ignorant,
Speaker 2: But I think the assumption is is like, this is
Speaker 2: not Afghanistan, oh one, this is not two thousand and
Speaker 2: one or sorry, nineteen ninety one first Golf War, Like
Speaker 2: we are going to get in a fight, and we
Speaker 2: were prepared for that, and we weren't reticent, we weren't afraid.
Speaker 2: It was just this very pragmatic resolve like some of
Speaker 2: you guys aren't going to come home, right, And that's
Speaker 2: not the way it worked out, at least not in three.
Speaker 2: That is not the military's experience during the duration of
Speaker 2: the conflict over there. But from my battalion, we lost
Speaker 2: no one with only you know, one real casualty.
Speaker 1: When you deployed to I'm assuming kuwait first, what was
Speaker 1: sort of like your concept of what your unit's mission was.
Speaker 3: It was really weird.
Speaker 2: We were supposed to drive through and find a route
Speaker 2: through a very specific trying to think how to describe it.
Speaker 2: There was a sort of like this damn network of levies.
Speaker 3: My job was I was going to be the.
Speaker 2: Lead platoon, lead team, lead platoon for the entire battalion
Speaker 2: that would then lead the division through. So I had
Speaker 2: to And I was looking at you two photographs, you know,
Speaker 2: with a magnifying glass, and just like and I'm charting
Speaker 2: it and rehearsing and rehearsing, And that was supposed to
Speaker 2: be what my team's job was. You're going to go
Speaker 2: through the line of departure. Engineers are going to blow
Speaker 2: the berm, and then you were going to navigate this route,
Speaker 2: proof it, and then everyone's coming.
Speaker 3: In behind you.
Speaker 2: None of that fucking no, And that was what we
Speaker 2: were supposed to do. We worked at the time. In general,
Speaker 2: Mattis was the division commanding rule for first Marine Division,
Speaker 2: of which First Recon fell under. Brilliant strategist. I still
Speaker 2: think he's one of the brightest minds of our generation
Speaker 2: as far as a warrior goes and it ended up
Speaker 2: that that's not how things played out, but that's what
Speaker 2: we were supposed to have been trained to do. We
Speaker 2: must have been to Kuwait. I mean it was over
Speaker 2: a month. I'm sure it goes by very quick. I
Speaker 2: can't remember.
Speaker 1: And so what did they have your team doing in actuality?
Speaker 2: In actuality, the battalion still spearheaded movements, but we did
Speaker 2: not have a lot of infantry or in many cases
Speaker 2: any infantry behind us. We acted as shock troops. We
Speaker 2: did more of what a ranger battalion would do. In
Speaker 2: many ways, that is not what we were trained to do.
Speaker 2: Not to suggest that we weren't capable, but I think
Speaker 2: that's a lot of what the friction was for the unit,
Speaker 2: and really for the lower ranking the rank and file,
Speaker 2: you know, men like myself who are in E five
Speaker 2: at the time, because I'm like, this is not what
Speaker 2: recon marines are supposed to be doing. You know, our
Speaker 2: job is recon poll We're gonna go over here, We're
Speaker 2: going to locate the target, and then you do whatever
Speaker 2: you want to do. If that's infantry, if that's rockets,
Speaker 2: if that's an airstrike. You were using us as shock
Speaker 2: troops were flowing in mass, We're making contact with the enemy,
Speaker 2: we are destroying the enemy, and we are continuing to move.
Speaker 2: And if that's what the general wanted to use us for,
Speaker 2: that's great. Like in retrospect, who the f was I
Speaker 2: to sit there and be like, I'm sorry, I don't
Speaker 2: do windows. You don't say that, but you complain about it,
Speaker 2: and we did and that did not go over well
Speaker 2: at the end of events.
Speaker 1: But was the idea that they want you to sort
Speaker 1: of be like a blocking force, like go out there,
Speaker 1: see what's going on, and kind of like guard the
Speaker 1: flank of the of the movement.
Speaker 2: In many ways, yeah, we were, and we were way
Speaker 2: out front.
Speaker 3: I mean way out front.
Speaker 2: In many cases. And it's not just us, I mean
Speaker 2: the military to a whole, but the Marine Corps specifically
Speaker 2: moved so fast there were several times where they just
Speaker 2: had to say, you guys have to stopped.
Speaker 3: You've outstripped your supply lines. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know
Speaker 3: where you were.
Speaker 1: I wasn't in the invasion, okay. I joined the army in.
Speaker 3: O two, got it, okay, fair enough, fair enough.
Speaker 1: I was in I was actually in ranger selection when
Speaker 1: the invasion happened. God, yeah, Well when when the guys
Speaker 1: came home with like a bunch of broken ankles and
Speaker 1: stuff from that jump, they're like, oh maybe, yes.
Speaker 2: I never jumped a combat jump. And I'm really kind
Speaker 2: of glad, you know, I have a lot of parachute
Speaker 2: jumps to my name.
Speaker 1: We'll get one of those guys in here. I mean
Speaker 1: they told me the static line was at waist height
Speaker 1: because they're so weighed down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, no, thanks, Yeah, yeah, I'm good.
Speaker 1: Kind of kind of my thought about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, even even jumping a square with
Speaker 2: combat load is not It's not a fun ride. I
Speaker 2: don't know how it was for you. We jump front
Speaker 2: mounted rucks. We don't typically jump back mounted roucks.
Speaker 1: We in free fall we did front mounted okay, front Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's like that beach ball until that is lowered, and
Speaker 2: it's just such a pain in the ass. We trained
Speaker 2: for it. I'm just really glad that I never did it.
Speaker 2: I'd much rather just walk.
Speaker 3: I'd do a free fall jump.
Speaker 1: But like a static line jump into combat, I mean
Speaker 1: sounds pretty cool, you know, band of brothers and all that,
Speaker 1: but in reality, that's scary as hell.
Speaker 2: You've got I did a j RTC at Fort Polk
Speaker 2: years ago, and I say years ago because the C
Speaker 2: one one was still flying, so you know it's years ago.
Speaker 2: And they did a mass attack with like sixteen or
Speaker 2: seventeen over Fort Poke. You could walk across the sky
Speaker 2: from one canopy to the nats, so many jos in
Speaker 2: the sky, and they assume a ten percent combat injury rate,
Speaker 2: and that was legit. And this was a training jump.
Speaker 2: I mean broken ankles. They had a couple of casualties
Speaker 2: and I'm not celebrating that, but combat now, so let's
Speaker 2: take that template. And now you've got guys on the ground.
Speaker 3: Potentially shooting at you. No thanks, I'm good.
Speaker 1: Tell us about uh, you know, the D Day, the
Speaker 1: day of the invasion, pushing across the Berm.
Speaker 3: So cool, I mean it was.
Speaker 2: They did all of these preparatory fires, surface fires and aircraft.
Speaker 2: They did tomahawks, I mean all kinds of soft and
Speaker 2: they did you know, some diversions and try to draw
Speaker 2: the iraq Is to confuse them where we were going.
Speaker 2: And the engineers blew the berm very shortly before we
Speaker 2: crossed the Led and was it night, so everyone's on nods.
Speaker 2: We did so much driver's training on nods and it
Speaker 2: still sucks because these are the old single tubes seven
Speaker 2: broblems ys sevens zero depth perception because there's one tube
Speaker 2: and that takes a lot of practice in order to
Speaker 2: get good at. But it was surreal. It's just like
Speaker 2: you're with your friends and you have trained with these
Speaker 2: guys for a long time. You trust them, you know
Speaker 2: how they're going to react, but it's still not been proven.
Speaker 2: So there was a lot of that anxiety like what's
Speaker 2: gonna happen? Not fog of war because you don't know
Speaker 2: what the enemy is gonna do. But you're there's this
Speaker 2: little like Jimminy cricket on your shoulder.
Speaker 3: Like don't fuck up, hope you go really well. I
Speaker 3: hope you don't die.
Speaker 2: Yeah, don't suck. You just don't know how you're going
Speaker 2: to react. So I think there's a lot of not
Speaker 2: not at the forefront of your mind, but there's that
Speaker 2: little voice like what if I screw up?
Speaker 3: What if I shanic? What if I freeze?
Speaker 2: What if I'm not as competent as I hope I am.
Speaker 3: But it was just weird.
Speaker 2: You know, bombs are going off, there's explosions way off
Speaker 2: in the distance. You can hear gunfire.
Speaker 3: Is it ours? Is it theirs?
Speaker 2: Is it a firefight? Is it misdirection? Like what is
Speaker 2: all that? And you don't know and you're just you're
Speaker 2: just driving. And that's what we did. I mean, we
Speaker 2: left it oh dark thirty and we drove and we
Speaker 2: did not stop driving for a couple of days. But
Speaker 2: like all through the night, we just drove and it
Speaker 2: was very like staccato. You know, you drive for like
Speaker 2: twenty minutes and then for some reason you had to stop.
Speaker 2: Sometimes our vehicles were in front, sometimes we were in
Speaker 2: the back of the convoy. Sometimes we've spread out. Sometimes
Speaker 2: you have to come together. But it was clunky for
Speaker 2: all night, and it's got to yeah, and then it's
Speaker 2: just anticlimatic, and you're like there's nothing going on, there's
Speaker 2: nothing to see. It's all just like just desert, right,
Speaker 2: And it was that way for until the next day.
Speaker 2: And then suddenly it's daytime and the nods you're off
Speaker 2: and you're you know, wiping the crust out of your
Speaker 2: eyes and you're like, oh, this is Iraq.
Speaker 3: Huh, well this is cool. Oh look there's a goat herder.
Speaker 2: And then there's more people, and then you come to
Speaker 2: this little mud hut town and village and people were
Speaker 2: just kind of looking at you.
Speaker 3: Like there's a war on you could it's it was
Speaker 3: just it was weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, unexpected.
Speaker 2: I've never invaded a country. That was my first time,
Speaker 2: so it was a lot of firsts. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And you guys had an embedded journalist, right, we did? Yes?
Speaker 1: What was that? What was he specifically with you?
Speaker 2: He was specifically with my Well, he was assigned to
Speaker 2: First Reconnaissance Battalion and just through this weird twist of fate. Well,
Speaker 2: I consider it to be a twist of fate. I
Speaker 2: have talked to some other people that say, actually, no,
Speaker 2: you were specifically chosen because they wanted him to be
Speaker 2: with your team, or you specifically because they felt you
Speaker 2: would be a good fit, that you could handle it
Speaker 2: and all this stuff. But I felt, and I am
Speaker 2: still that is my position. It was just dumb luck.
Speaker 2: I had an empty seat. We had four humvis. We
Speaker 2: had three teams, so that means one team of six
Speaker 2: is going to have to be split into two groups.
Speaker 2: Humvey has four seats, so if you take six people
Speaker 2: and you have eight seats, you're going to end up
Speaker 2: with an empty seat somewhere. I had an empty seat
Speaker 2: in my HUMV. Reporter, you're riding with him again. There
Speaker 2: is another side to that story, but that is my
Speaker 2: version of events. I wouldn't say that I wasn't crazy
Speaker 2: about having him, but I was not super enthused. He
Speaker 2: grew on me because he's very personable and he's very likable.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, I'm not going to be responsible for
Speaker 2: this guy. You can't give me a civilian and like,
Speaker 2: if we get into a firefight, I'm not dealing with
Speaker 2: this person. You know that, right, And all of that
Speaker 2: was explained like, nope, you do you. He'll look after
Speaker 2: himself if he gets hurt, that's that's on him. But then,
Speaker 2: of course you have this, you have this implied responsibility. Yea, yeah,
Speaker 2: Like I'm not just gonna leave you helpless. So all right,
Speaker 2: let's talk about it. Where's your gas mask, where's your
Speaker 2: mop suit, Let's talk about two pam chloride and atropine.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about, you know, speed drills. Where's your weapon?
Speaker 2: He had no weapon, but we would give him access
Speaker 2: to one from time to time if we felt like, hey,
Speaker 2: I think we're probably going to be in a firefight,
Speaker 2: if one of us gets shot, you need to pick
Speaker 2: up his M four. Let's just make sure you understand
Speaker 2: how to use it. And he was keen across the
Speaker 2: board on all of this. He came with his own mopsuit,
Speaker 2: he had his own body armor, he had his own
Speaker 2: gas mask. I have no idea where he got any
Speaker 2: of this stuff. The corman hooked him up with some
Speaker 2: of the stuff that he basically needs, you know, tourniquits.
Speaker 2: In those days, they were all homemade tourniquits. It was
Speaker 2: a crevass and popsicle sticks to make them win those.
Speaker 2: And they gave him the atropine and the two pam
Speaker 2: chloride for chemi tax and just like all the stuff.
Speaker 2: And he did well. And he was a big dude.
Speaker 2: I don't mean like we're he was a little, but
Speaker 2: not a lot.
Speaker 3: He was just tall. It's like six', four so he
Speaker 3: was not.
Speaker 1: Small it's interesting, that you, know at the time he
Speaker 1: probably didn't even think about, this but like someone had
Speaker 1: once told me That youngllen was not the first person
Speaker 1: to circumvent the, world but he was the first person
Speaker 1: to do it with a historian on the ship that
Speaker 1: wrote about. It, yeah And that's why everyone Remembers. Magellan
Speaker 1: and you, know your your, team your platoon had a
Speaker 1: historian along for the ride we.
Speaker 2: Did, Yeah and another interesting footnote about this is that
Speaker 2: he was the only print journalist in the entire marine.
Speaker 2: Division he, WAS i want to, say he was only
Speaker 2: one of two in the entire. Theater everyone else was
Speaker 2: news OR tv or you, know, film they were all.
Speaker 2: Films he was the only person that was there as
Speaker 2: part of a printed, publication which meant that he wasn't
Speaker 2: in and, out and that changed things. Too it would
Speaker 2: have been very different if it was like an embed
Speaker 2: FROM cnn OR bbc Or Al jazeera or you know,
Speaker 2: whatever because he was going to be there for the
Speaker 2: duration he. Was he was there for three months and
Speaker 2: just hundreds hundreds of, notebooks and he got to know
Speaker 2: all the, guys intimately heard the, stories was witness to,
Speaker 2: everything and we didn't censor, ourselves which bit a lot
Speaker 2: of people in the ass, later, right a. Lot but you,
Speaker 2: know early, on And i've said this before in some other,
Speaker 2: interviews BUT i made its decision very very early.
Speaker 3: ON i could take one of two.
Speaker 2: APPROACHES i could bring the platoon or the team, together
Speaker 2: AND i say all, right, listen, guys we've got a
Speaker 2: reporter with. Us everyone's just gonna have to shut your
Speaker 2: mouth and not say. Anything OR i could just, say
Speaker 2: don't change a thing and just be. Yourself, yeah let
Speaker 2: history be the.
Speaker 3: Judge let history be the.
Speaker 2: Judge because WHAT i didn't want to happen WAS i
Speaker 2: knew what we were getting, into. RIGHT i didn't know
Speaker 2: if somebody was going to, die or if we were
Speaker 2: going to get. SHOT i didn't know if we were
Speaker 2: and get blown up or witnessed. Whatever but the last
Speaker 2: thing THAT i wanted to do was to tell them
Speaker 2: not to process. It and a lot of, people when
Speaker 2: they are, nervous or when they are, scared or when
Speaker 2: they are, whatever you.
Speaker 3: Know they're gonna.
Speaker 1: Verbalize, right that's just how we. Process and there are
Speaker 1: probably some things that they could talk to a reporter
Speaker 1: about that maybe they wouldn't say to like a, teammate you,
Speaker 1: know like you wouldn't tell your teammate, like, MAN i
Speaker 1: was scared, shitless you. Know SO i just felt that
Speaker 1: the easier thing to do between those two linear choices
Speaker 1: would just, be, like just treat them like one of the.
Speaker 1: Guys whatever's gonna happen is going to, happen AND i
Speaker 1: stand by. It, Yeah and so in those subsequent, days
Speaker 1: what was the story that he was? Capturing what was
Speaker 1: it that you guys went out and.
Speaker 2: DID i think everything that you, know The generation killed
Speaker 2: the book And Generation killed the series talks about is you,
Speaker 2: know it's out, there it's the.
Speaker 3: Story it's pretty self.
Speaker 1: Evident but.
Speaker 2: It was all of the you, know the day to.
Speaker 2: Day it was driving from one position to the. Next
Speaker 2: it was interacting with, people it was helping, sometimes it
Speaker 2: was treating, wounded it was collecting, POW's it was uncovering weapons.
Speaker 3: Caches it was.
Speaker 2: Sometimes getting in, firefights sometimes being ambushed or calling in helicopter.
Speaker 2: Strikes it was. War it was all of. It it
Speaker 2: was the, good the, bad the, ugly and he. Was
Speaker 2: he was there for its. Entirety AND i think it
Speaker 2: was really great to have somebody narrate that. HISTORY i, think, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it was absolutely somebody's got to capture those
Speaker 1: stories and capture that. History.
Speaker 2: Yeah you, know we've had so much published On. Vietnam
Speaker 2: there were so many. Journalists it was long campaign and
Speaker 2: it was a bloody, campaign and it was you, know
Speaker 2: somebody said to me the other day that one of
Speaker 2: the generals made a comment recently that The United states
Speaker 2: has been in combat for the last twenty, years but
Speaker 2: we have not been in war for. Decades, Sure AND i,
Speaker 2: said that's that's, brilliant because he's, right we haven't been in.
Speaker 2: War AND i, MEAN i would Argue Southeast. ASIAS i
Speaker 2: would Say vietnam was our Last american war where you
Speaker 2: had an entire generation baptized in. Combat we've had hundreds
Speaker 2: of thousands of men and women over the last twenty
Speaker 2: years be in.
Speaker 3: Combat but it's. Different it's.
Speaker 2: Different and so you had all of these stories come
Speaker 2: out About vietnam on the air, side or the navy,
Speaker 2: side or the ground, side from every walk of, life
Speaker 2: from men and, women old and. Young you didn't have
Speaker 2: that IN oif AND, oef not to the same. Level
Speaker 2: you certainly didn't have anyone writing the type of story
Speaker 2: That Evan wright did at that time and.
Speaker 1: Place, yeah there's my opinion is that there's very little
Speaker 1: coverage of that like, lance corporal, perspective boots on the,
Speaker 1: ground and it sounds like he did that very.
Speaker 2: Well he did, it and that is one of the
Speaker 2: reasons WHY i think so many people identify with the
Speaker 2: story because it is the every man's. Story it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter if you are a you, know An army eleven,
Speaker 2: bravo if you are a, coasty you, Know National guard,
Speaker 2: reservist it doesn't. Matter if you were AN e five
Speaker 2: and below In iraq in two thousand and, three that's your.
Speaker 3: Story, yeah it. Resonates, yeah we all get.
Speaker 2: It the same, food the same, conditions the same fog of,
Speaker 2: war the ambiguity that can like all of. It, yeah
Speaker 2: it's like everybody gets. It if you want to know
Speaker 2: what it's like to be in the, military that's a
Speaker 2: pretty good way to do.
Speaker 1: It. Yeah so it sounds like they kept you incredibly,
Speaker 1: busy like you were kind of like doing it.
Speaker 3: All we were doing it. ALL i wouldn't say THAT
Speaker 3: i was.
Speaker 2: Bored but, combat for anyone who's been in it is
Speaker 2: long periods of boredom interrupted by intense periods of. Violence that's.
Speaker 2: Combat and that was two thousand and. Three there were
Speaker 2: long stretches of just.
Speaker 3: Like, fuck.
Speaker 1: Very flat out.
Speaker 2: Here yeah it's very, flat or like this is. Boring
Speaker 2: we have to wait and you, know you don't know
Speaker 2: where the goalpost.
Speaker 3: Is it's just, like, well what are we gonna do?
Speaker 2: Today, well today we're gonna you, know we're gonna drive
Speaker 2: five miles or five kilometers or whatever the case may.
Speaker 2: Be we're gonna go check out this thing over. Here
Speaker 2: and then, uh we're just gonna wait. Around and there's
Speaker 2: just a lot of, it, Right and it's just day
Speaker 2: after day of that kind of unknown, goal, post unknown.
Speaker 3: Objective and but it's but.
Speaker 1: Busy, yeah and you guys ran into some Like iraqi military.
Speaker 2: Holdouts we ran in to a lot of different. People
Speaker 2: The Iraq war was kind of this bell weather to
Speaker 2: anyone who wanted to Fight.
Speaker 3: American, sure you know it.
Speaker 2: Was we got into some a firefight in. Particular and
Speaker 2: then when we did the post firefight analysis and we
Speaker 2: find passports from Like syria and other countries fighters who
Speaker 2: had crossed.
Speaker 1: That was happening. ALREADY i thought that came out a
Speaker 1: few years down the. Line, yeah that was right then and,
Speaker 1: there right in the right in the, Beginning right in the.
Speaker 2: Beginning we got into a pretty good ambush trying to
Speaker 2: cross a bridge one. Time and then that's that's WHERE
Speaker 2: i fired at two oh. Three that didn't blow up
Speaker 2: because it was too short of an army distance and
Speaker 2: just went right through the chestnel.
Speaker 3: Cavity, yeah it.
Speaker 2: Was i'm, like WELL i didn't didn't know it could do,
Speaker 2: That but then, again well why DIDN'T i know it
Speaker 2: could do?
Speaker 3: That and why HAVEN'T i done that?
Speaker 2: Before but, yeah they Had syrian passports and a couple
Speaker 2: of other foreign fighter passports and it was all.
Speaker 3: Over that Was.
Speaker 2: Iraq anybody who wanted to come in and get their
Speaker 2: jihat on that was the place to do it at
Speaker 2: that time and.
Speaker 3: Place but we.
Speaker 2: Did we we came into contact with a Few iraqi,
Speaker 2: regulars but most of it were militia.
Speaker 3: Fighters that's so. Weird, yeah yeah it, was and.
Speaker 2: You, know tactically now OR i should say not, now
Speaker 2: but like four oh five oh, six that would have
Speaker 2: we would have, stopped and we would have been, like,
Speaker 2: okay let's let's prosecute that whole right back, then it's
Speaker 2: like not our. Problem just keep. Moving we're going to
Speaker 2: shoot as many as you can mitigate the. Threat if
Speaker 2: it's not a, threat or it's a mitigated threat OR
Speaker 2: i should say, reduced we're just gonna keep.
Speaker 3: Pushing, yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 1: Weird so when was it that you did find that goal.
Speaker 1: POST i mean that that your unit must have stopped
Speaker 1: you at some.
Speaker 2: Point we stopped at Uh Bakuba. Bakuba i'm probably saying it.
Speaker 2: WRONG i cannot pronounce.
Speaker 1: A lot of these.
Speaker 2: Words the rest Of baka. Buzz, yeah that's as far
Speaker 2: north as we made. It it's on the other side Of.
Speaker 2: Baghdad and then we kind of declared it was game,
Speaker 2: over like not first reconnaissance, batealion but Miss alisssion. ACCOMPLISHMENT
Speaker 2: i think that's When america, Said, okay The saddam regime is.
Speaker 3: Toppled they are.
Speaker 2: Unseated saddam wasn't. Hiding we'd captured the, palaces we'd captured
Speaker 2: some of the family. Members they have no functioning system of.
Speaker 2: Government they can provide no real. Opposition and, truly when
Speaker 2: you're fighting, war that's the measure of success is when
Speaker 2: opposition ceases to. Happen and at least at that time and,
Speaker 2: place it was declared that's.
Speaker 3: It that was the.
Speaker 2: Goalpost so then it was just a matter of, well,
Speaker 2: FUCK i guess we got to drive all the way back.
Speaker 2: South we didn't drive all the way back To. Kuwait
Speaker 2: we drove basically back To. Baghdad we kind of made
Speaker 2: an assembly area there and later slowly retrograded back To
Speaker 2: kuwait and then back To. America should that have been the? Goalpost,
Speaker 2: wow this is a great. Conversation the way that we
Speaker 2: fought that entire WAR i think was probably. MYOPIC, yea
Speaker 2: many people would agree back then in two thousand and,
Speaker 2: three we probably did the best that we.
Speaker 3: Could but, YEAH i think no one would. Disagree if
Speaker 3: we were to do it, again we would do it.
Speaker 1: Differently, WELL i would. Hope it seems sometimes like we're
Speaker 1: The United states Of amnesia and we just do these
Speaker 1: things over and over.
Speaker 3: Again american suffers. THAT i, mean that's just our. Culture
Speaker 3: we are shows short sighted to say the. Least, yeah.
Speaker 1: Tell us about the recept back home this, time because
Speaker 1: you said it was different than very.
Speaker 2: Different it was an Amazing So america still had a
Speaker 2: lot of. Jingoism you come back and there's parades And
Speaker 2: america you, know you could not be more. Patriotic we had,
Speaker 2: vindicated you, know supposedly nine to. Eleven we got chicks fuck, Them, yes,
Speaker 2: yes But Camp pendleton is right outside Of, Oceanside, California
Speaker 2: and you've never seen a more patriotic little town than.
Speaker 2: That And i'm sure it was the case whether it
Speaker 2: was you, Know fayetteville or. Anywhere, yeah, Yeah america was
Speaker 2: grateful we could not get a better. Reception but then
Speaker 2: the magazine article came Out Evan write's. Home he was
Speaker 2: a freelance reporter For Rolling. Stone he was originally commissioned
Speaker 2: to do one article in one issue Of Rolling. Stones
Speaker 2: they end up loving it so much they make it
Speaker 2: a three.
Speaker 3: Part series into three. Articles so the first issue comes.
Speaker 2: Out and then it's, like oh, yeah, yeah they don't like.
Speaker 2: That The Marine corps doesn't like. It General mattis doesn't like.
Speaker 2: It First Reconnaissance battalion leadership doesn't like it because it
Speaker 2: openly criticized a lot of the decisions that the officers.
Speaker 2: Made it openly criticizes the decisions that The Marine corps
Speaker 2: as a whole was. Making whoever wanted to be the
Speaker 2: face of The Marine. Corps it was critical because, again
Speaker 2: you are talking about A e five and below's version of.
Speaker 2: Events and, look if you don't know anything about the,
Speaker 2: military let me tell you one. Thing members of the,
Speaker 2: military especially at that, rank do nothing all day long
Speaker 2: other than. Complain that's what people. Do you will sit
Speaker 2: around and you will find something to complain. About it
Speaker 2: does not matter if you have lobster and steak and
Speaker 2: caviare and all the free views you want.
Speaker 3: On and that's what we.
Speaker 2: Did and now you're not just doing it in peacetime.
Speaker 2: Garrison you're doing it in. Combat and that's you, know
Speaker 2: where everyone is hyper vigilant and you are, stressed you are.
Speaker 2: Scared in some, cases you're, hungry you are a whole
Speaker 2: host of. Emotions, yeah you're gonna, complain and there's a
Speaker 2: guy documenting. Everything, oh this person said That lieutenant so
Speaker 2: and so is A The Marine corps didn't like.
Speaker 3: That it has since been.
Speaker 2: Relooked, at but at that, time you, know you're talking
Speaker 2: what winter of two thousand and, three they didn't want
Speaker 2: to hear that.
Speaker 1: Shit well, yeah and what it is too, IS i
Speaker 1: mean they're worried about their own career. Progression and this
Speaker 1: makes you, know our command look bad and this and that.
Speaker 2: Command is what is this going to do to The
Speaker 2: Marine corps public? Relations and is potentially any of this?
Speaker 2: Actionable did you violate anything in THE?
Speaker 1: Ucmj, yeah, YEAH i was gonna ask what did they
Speaker 1: try to retaliate against any of.
Speaker 3: You SO i Had.
Speaker 2: While In, IRAQ i was nominated for a meritorious, promotion
Speaker 2: a combat meritorious promotion to staff sergeant TO e six
Speaker 2: for the entire. Division so it wasn't in the. Battalion
Speaker 2: they had one meritorious combat slot FOR e, six one
Speaker 2: FOR e, seven one FOR e. EIGHT i competed AGAINST
Speaker 2: i don't know how many people FOR e, six AND i.
Speaker 2: WON i was the first meritorious combat promotion Since.
Speaker 3: Vietnam.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yep so my warrant is a date of rank on
Speaker 2: the second of the month instead of the, first and
Speaker 2: it says in combat should have said that it got taken.
Speaker 2: Away General madis rescinded the promotion warrant in light of
Speaker 2: what had taken place in the. Article NOW i ended
Speaker 2: up getting, it but it was gone for about six. Weeks,
Speaker 2: yeah and it wasn't just. Me there were other people
Speaker 2: in the platoon as. Well and the prevailing attitude of
Speaker 2: the leadership at the time, was, well you should have
Speaker 2: kept your mouth. Shut you Should you didn't have to say.
Speaker 2: Anything i'm, like, okay hold on a. Minute you put
Speaker 2: this person in.
Speaker 3: Our, growth you put a rolling stone reporter in the
Speaker 3: midst of.
Speaker 2: Ye freelance, reporter be that as it. May former publisher
Speaker 2: For Penthouse, Letters New flint personally, like he's got a
Speaker 2: great street. Reputation he was not the Liberal Ivy league
Speaker 2: acts to grind. Democrat, no he was cool as. Fuck
Speaker 2: but come, on, man.
Speaker 1: He was still a.
Speaker 3: Reporter what did you think was gonna?
Speaker 2: Happen that was the first thing THAT i had sort
Speaker 2: of stood on as and then, Secondly i'm, like.
Speaker 3: What was really so? BAD i, mean, REALLY.
Speaker 2: I i had known and had conversations With General Madis.
Speaker 2: PRYOR i spoke to him him many times In afghanistan
Speaker 2: WHEN i was reporting directly to him In. Kandahar i'd
Speaker 2: had a couple of other conversations on other times through
Speaker 2: a weird set of. Circumstances it's not important he knew.
Speaker 2: Me General madis has a great, memory by the, way
Speaker 2: he will meet somebody one time and he will always remember,
Speaker 2: you which is incredible BECAUSE i was a.
Speaker 3: Nobody he knew.
Speaker 2: ME i had a very very, unpleasant one sided conversation
Speaker 2: with The, general and this was the conversation that was
Speaker 2: going to determine whether or NOT i was allowed to
Speaker 2: be promoted to that next. Rank under the circumstances THAT i.
Speaker 3: Was it worked, out but, hmm it was.
Speaker 2: Painful he was, pissed he was, furious he was fucking.
Speaker 2: Furious and, again it was a one sided. Conversation he
Speaker 2: didn't give a shit WHAT i had to. Say he
Speaker 2: was not asking for my version of. Events and, honestly
Speaker 2: it was interesting because the general didn't care.
Speaker 3: What the officers looked.
Speaker 2: Like he didn't care that they were questioned or slandered or.
Speaker 2: Ridiculed he's, LIKE i DON'T i don't want it affecting
Speaker 2: the enlisted. MEN i don't want YOUR i don't remember
Speaker 2: the exact words that he, said but you Know i'm.
Speaker 2: PARAPHRASING i don't want your cancer affecting the enlisted.
Speaker 3: Ranks and it worked out.
Speaker 2: Well but really the only reason it worked out well
Speaker 2: is because he had a sergeant major and his sergeant
Speaker 2: major liked, me and his sergeant major listened to, me
Speaker 2: and he heard my story and he listened to my.
Speaker 2: Argument but he was one of SEVERAL i had to
Speaker 2: go in front of every single sergeant major in the ENTIRE. Mef,
Speaker 2: okay that's a, lot because remember a division is below
Speaker 2: a meth first Free commementalian is below the, division so there's.
Speaker 3: A lot of sergeant.
Speaker 2: Majors there's like eight of these, dudes the, artillery the,
Speaker 2: infantry like they're all in a room and There's Sergeant.
Speaker 2: Colbert And i'm having to explain myself to senior enlisted
Speaker 2: people who don't like recon marines, anyways because we're all
Speaker 2: a bunch of. Cowboys and now here's an uppity little
Speaker 2: sergeant who thinks that he can just say whatever he wants. About,
Speaker 2: yeah it was it was, rough.
Speaker 3: BUT i won the.
Speaker 2: DAY i won the, day AND i got to keep my.
Speaker 2: RANK i got to pick up my next rank and
Speaker 2: my next.
Speaker 3: One and you, know the story has aged.
Speaker 2: WELL i think people will realize, that like, one there
Speaker 2: were a lot worst things to come for.
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah like in the grand scheme of our adventure In,
Speaker 2: Iraq Sergeant colbert's mouth is not the thing that we
Speaker 2: are going to. Blemish so, Yeah.
Speaker 1: And does does this have anything to do with your
Speaker 1: stint with The Royal marines that they're kind of, like
Speaker 1: we need to get this guy out of here for
Speaker 1: a little.
Speaker 2: While, no in, fact quite the. Opposite that is a coveted.
Speaker 2: BILLET i would, think, yeah highly sought. After you are completely.
Speaker 2: Alone you have no higher. Headquarters you are. Isolated like
Speaker 2: WHEN i say you're, embedded it's, like that's.
Speaker 3: It it's.
Speaker 2: YOU i have No american chain of command in the,
Speaker 2: country not. Marine the only marine in the country are
Speaker 2: the embassy folks up In london's, embassy and they have
Speaker 2: no association with. Me my reach back was a, officer
Speaker 2: a major In, quantico and so it was highly sought,
Speaker 2: after AND i was selected and screened and.
Speaker 3: Found to Be, yep it was. Good it was not.
Speaker 2: Universal the angst over The Generation kill magazine articles was not.
Speaker 3: Universal there were a lot of people that were, like, yeah,
Speaker 3: DUDE i get.
Speaker 2: It what could you do? Right you were in a tough.
Speaker 2: SPOT i don't think you did anything that was that.
Speaker 2: Egregious it was really just the upper, echelons.
Speaker 3: You know WHAT i, Mean and it all rolls, downhill
Speaker 3: and it all rolls.
Speaker 2: Downhill so to be selected for The British Exchange, PROGRAM
Speaker 2: i mean it was, great phenomenal. Opportunity really personally and
Speaker 2: professionally it was.
Speaker 1: Great did you have to go through their training?
Speaker 2: COURSE i had the option to go through their training.
Speaker 2: COURSE i started to go through their training. Course there
Speaker 2: were some circumstances that prevented me from finishing The All
Speaker 2: Arms commando. Course one of the unique things about The
Speaker 2: British commandos is the individual Row marine goes through their
Speaker 2: EIGHT i think it's eight month eight enough positive things
Speaker 2: about their, spighting fighting, spirit their, morale their attitudes are
Speaker 2: you just you cannot demoralize this group of. People it
Speaker 2: Is i've never seen anything like. It they can't be miserable.
Speaker 2: Enough they're just really good. Dudes AND i think it
Speaker 2: has a lot to do with the fact that their
Speaker 2: training pipeline is incredibly. Long eight months is a long
Speaker 2: time to be in basic and they go through some
Speaker 2: very arduous physical, courses they go through a lot of,
Speaker 2: schooling and there's not that many you, know thirty five
Speaker 2: hundred and four thousand at any given.
Speaker 3: Time that's.
Speaker 2: Small AND i, MEAN i found them to just be
Speaker 2: an incredible group of. Guys And i've said this. BEFORE
Speaker 2: i think they could do so much better if they
Speaker 2: would un ask more funding for, them if they had
Speaker 2: access to more money to pay for some really top
Speaker 2: tier equipment and get access to some really good.
Speaker 3: Training and their training is. GOOD i don't mean to
Speaker 3: insinuate that it's.
Speaker 2: Not BUT i compare it to, us, right, Right like
Speaker 2: my platoon of twenty four recom marines would typically have
Speaker 2: a range day where the animal lot of it was
Speaker 2: nine ten thousand. Rounds that's pretty average, REALLY i mean flat,
Speaker 2: range maybe a shoot, house you, know maybe you do
Speaker 2: some live fire and, maneuver some immediate action drills ten
Speaker 2: thousand rounds of five to five six and then some
Speaker 2: other associated belt fed and smoke and like that's. Nothing
Speaker 2: that's a lot of ammo for those. Guys, yeah that's a.
Speaker 2: Lot so that's the kind of stuff That i'm talking,
Speaker 2: about not that they're not doing anything, wrong but, like,
Speaker 2: bro if you had you, know the latest cutting edge communications,
Speaker 2: equipment an absolute top, tier like, Amazing what did you.
Speaker 1: Think are the similarities in the differences between them and
Speaker 1: The American Marine.
Speaker 2: Corps, well they're still very much embedded into The. Navy
Speaker 2: one of the really weird things about the The british
Speaker 2: military on a whole is that their pay system is
Speaker 2: not the same across the board like in The american.
Speaker 2: Military if you are An ARMY e one or A
Speaker 2: Marine CORPS e one or An Air FORCE e, one
Speaker 2: you were.
Speaker 3: Getting the same amount of. Money that's not the case over.
Speaker 3: There it's.
Speaker 2: Different Their navy pay is different than Their army pay
Speaker 2: than it's different than Their Marine corps. Pay so that's
Speaker 2: the first thing that's. Weird they also don't have an
Speaker 2: up or out policy like we, do, right so you
Speaker 2: could potentially so they sign up For AND i could
Speaker 2: be getting this wrong because my memory is a little
Speaker 2: fuzzy these, days but you basically sign up for a
Speaker 2: twenty two year enlistment and you can leave after a certain,
Speaker 2: period but that's. It and you don't have to be
Speaker 2: promoted to stay in like you do in The american military.
Speaker 2: System so you could be a corporal of twenty. Years
Speaker 2: you just don't want the responsibility of, leading and you're
Speaker 2: quite happy to be at that. Rank that's a big, difference.
Speaker 3: AND i think that is.
Speaker 2: Very impactful on their leadership because just because you're upwardly
Speaker 2: mobile doesn't mean that you were necessarily ready for that next,
Speaker 2: Right SO i DON'T i don't think that you're promoting
Speaker 2: the right way when you do it like. That i'm
Speaker 2: sure there's reasons beyond WHAT i can see on the surface,
Speaker 2: level but those are some pretty pretty big glaring differences
Speaker 2: between our, military or at least Our Marine corps and.
Speaker 2: Theirs we want everybody to have the mantle of, leadership
Speaker 2: and you are going to do, it and you're probably
Speaker 2: gonna suck at, it but somebody will teach. You they're
Speaker 2: still in The department of The, navy and in almost
Speaker 2: all ways their Their navy controls their budget and their
Speaker 2: manpower and a lot of their other, things whereas in
Speaker 2: THE Us Marine. Corps, yeah we Say department of The,
Speaker 2: navy but that's really just something that's still.
Speaker 3: On the figurehead and the, walls and that's not the.
Speaker 2: CASE i would love to see The british, commander you,
Speaker 2: know The Royal marines sort of separate themselves in more
Speaker 2: ways from their.
Speaker 3: Parent. Service did you end up the point with?
Speaker 1: Them?
Speaker 2: NO i was at a training. Command, Okay so the
Speaker 2: way that the exchange program works is it's one of
Speaker 2: theirs in one of, ours and we. Swap so my
Speaker 2: counterpart went to a unit that was, deployable and he
Speaker 2: did get a chance to. Deploy INTEREST i would have
Speaker 2: loved to have to have gone over To iraq with those,
Speaker 2: folks but now it was a training and education, command
Speaker 2: SO i spent a decent amount of time teaching asymmetric
Speaker 2: warfare amphibious you, know, operations boat, driving, vbsss that kind of.
Speaker 1: Stuff yeah that's pretty. Cool yeah yeah uh in three
Speaker 1: years almost in THE. Uk, yeah that must have been.
Speaker 2: Fun yeah it. WAS i had a great place to.
Speaker 2: LIVE i had a two bedroom flat right on the.
Speaker 2: Water like you could jump off of my balcony into
Speaker 2: the ocean if you wanted. TO i don't recommend it
Speaker 2: as cold as, fuck but you could do. It and
Speaker 2: then it was right next to. Work SO i got
Speaker 2: up in the morning AND i walked next door to
Speaker 2: the training compound and it was. GREAT i WOULD i
Speaker 2: had two of my motorcycles went with. ME i tmoed
Speaker 2: him over. There SO i would regularly put a motorcycle
Speaker 2: on the ferry and go over To, france you, know
Speaker 2: and drive through the coast Of. Normandy OR i would
Speaker 2: go over To, ireland you, know and ride the motorcycle
Speaker 2: through the countryside Of, ireland and or go up To
Speaker 2: scotland and tore the. Distilleries so a lot of personal. Takeaways, yeah,
Speaker 2: yeah it, was it.
Speaker 1: Was it was.
Speaker 3: GREAT i had a good, time learned a.
Speaker 1: Lot and after that wrapped up and you got sent
Speaker 1: back to the Mother Marine. Corps, yea what was the
Speaker 1: next assignment for? You, well so that's WHEN i went
Speaker 1: To First. FORCE i was there for you, know about six,
Speaker 1: months and there was unfortunately a cabal of people who are, like,
Speaker 1: yeah that whole generation kill, Thing.
Speaker 3: You're not gonna be a good.
Speaker 2: Fit i'm, like you, KNOW i went to school with
Speaker 2: a lot of you, guys like we all went through
Speaker 2: the same. Pipeline we all tried to the same. Ground,
Speaker 2: again don't be a. Dick but, okay if that's your,
Speaker 2: attitude then that's.
Speaker 3: Fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, SO i MEAN i just came back to the Mother,
Speaker 2: SHIP i reintegrated, myself tried to do it whatever was,
Speaker 2: asked whatever was, needed and then in short order found
Speaker 2: myself back At First Reconnaissance battalion getting ready to go
Speaker 2: back To iraq.
Speaker 1: Again how'd that? Go it was a little.
Speaker 2: Rough, yeah it was a little. ROUGH i mean WHEN
Speaker 2: i went To iraq and three it was the Wild.
Speaker 2: WEST i, mean we were in. Combat you. Know now
Speaker 2: it's like we have forward operating bases and there's gate.
Speaker 1: Cards what you're going TO spa.
Speaker 2: Seven So i'm In fallujah in seven and you, know
Speaker 2: this is oh, seven so none of the really horrible
Speaker 2: fighting that was taking place in four oh five six was.
Speaker 2: There it was, well we did combat operations and we
Speaker 2: got into some scrapes and but for the most, part
Speaker 2: it was like it's kind of WHAT i call peacetime,
Speaker 2: combat garrison. Combat it's, bureaucratic it's, administrative it's it's your
Speaker 2: hands are. Tied you, know you can't do, this and
Speaker 2: you can't do. That and we still went out and
Speaker 2: we did a lot of really WHAT i think is
Speaker 2: to be you, know good, work a lot of cordin and,
Speaker 2: clearing a lot of ied, stuff schwacked a lot of,
Speaker 2: dudes putting in roadside bomb and you, know found weapons
Speaker 2: caches and.
Speaker 3: All the stuff that we all. Did but it was
Speaker 3: also horribly.
Speaker 2: Bureaucratic it was you can't do, this you can't do,
Speaker 2: that and we got to ask permission to. This and
Speaker 2: this is this is where we had a zero injury.
Speaker 2: Mentality you, know we started loading these vehicles up that
Speaker 2: were never designed.
Speaker 3: For all of this armory with all this, stuff.
Speaker 2: And, like, oh you can't go, out you need you
Speaker 2: need full, Ppe LIKE i can't run with. This by the, Way,
Speaker 2: okay you put eighty pounds of armor on. Me IF
Speaker 2: i get into a, firefight how AM i supposed to
Speaker 2: maneuver or grab my friend who is shot AND i
Speaker 2: have to maneuver.
Speaker 3: Him this is.
Speaker 2: Stupid but somewhere along the, line we as a country
Speaker 2: decided we will not allow, casualties, like we're not having.
Speaker 3: It you.
Speaker 1: CAN'T i was looking pretty bad in the.
Speaker 3: Press, yeah, YEAH i can't fight a war that.
Speaker 2: Way did anyone not read A Soldier's load and The
Speaker 2: mobility of A? Nation BECAUSE i, did and you. Haven't
Speaker 2: CLEARLY i have that manual here.
Speaker 1: Somewhere actually it's a good.
Speaker 3: Book yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah so the two thousand and seven deployment was very
Speaker 2: different for. ME i was also not a team. LEADER
Speaker 2: i was now a platoon, sergeant so, senior enlisted for
Speaker 2: twenty four, individuals AND i had a pretty shitty platoon.
Speaker 2: Commander yeah, yeah, yeah pretty. Shitty he was a last minute.
Speaker 2: Substitution the original one rotated back to The United states
Speaker 2: because his significant another had cancer and he's, Like i'm, out, okay,
Speaker 2: thanks and they substituted somebody else. In and this guy
Speaker 2: was a, douche a total.
Speaker 1: Douche did he come out of the recon community or,
Speaker 1: no he was, there but he had no reconnaissance and
Speaker 1: the officers typically.
Speaker 2: Don't usually their ground intelligence or aviation intelligence.
Speaker 1: Officers, OH i can see that being an, issue.
Speaker 2: Which for the most, part is not a big, deal
Speaker 2: because they understand the significance of the mission and the
Speaker 2: reconnaissance and they are mature enough for the most part
Speaker 2: to be, like this is your area of. Expertise i'll
Speaker 2: just sort of help muld you and point you in the.
Speaker 2: Direction you, know this guy was straight from the, infantry
Speaker 2: and he had some very didactic and rigid ideas, about you,
Speaker 2: know the way things should be, done like, okay, Okay.
Speaker 1: So how did that relationship end up working? Out not?
Speaker 3: Good not, good not.
Speaker 2: GOOD i also got into it with our first sergeant
Speaker 2: at the time a, lot.
Speaker 3: You, know LIKE i, said we.
Speaker 2: It's not THAT i FORGOT i was in The Marine.
Speaker 2: Corps it was just that the reconnaissance community had always
Speaker 2: been a little to the right of.
Speaker 3: Center you, know you have The.
Speaker 2: Marine corps rank and, file rigid like this is a
Speaker 2: marine and then over here you Have ricon Who i'm
Speaker 2: not saying shouldn't adhere to the, norm but by virtue
Speaker 2: of its.
Speaker 3: Mission, set doesn't they have to adapt a little bit
Speaker 3: a little.
Speaker 2: Bit AND i had a couple of individuals in the
Speaker 2: chain of command that were, Like, nope this is the
Speaker 2: way we do.
Speaker 3: Business that's not how we do.
Speaker 2: It i'll do it that way because all of you outrank,
Speaker 2: me but fuck, you this is not how we do. It, so,
Speaker 2: yeah there was some. Contention we did not get. Along
Speaker 2: we made it. THROUGH i made it through the, deployment,
Speaker 2: clearly but it wasn't. Fun it wasn't. Enjoyable, yeah it felt.
Speaker 3: Hamstrung it sounds, like, YEAH i, WAS i, Was i'm.
Speaker 3: STRONG i was really just ready for it to be.
Speaker 1: Over, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yep how?
Speaker 1: Long how long was that?
Speaker 3: Deployment seven eight?
Speaker 1: Months, yeah it's a long, time.
Speaker 3: It, Is, yeah it.
Speaker 2: Is and again it's It's Camp, fallujah and everything had
Speaker 2: just been like all of the fun of war was
Speaker 2: stripped away because you, know you're living in a pod
Speaker 2: and there's a dining facility and there's all these rules
Speaker 2: about well this.
Speaker 1: Has to be, done and how you can use the,
Speaker 1: shower what you have to have with you when you
Speaker 1: go to the chow, hall and all this weird.
Speaker 2: Stuff i'm like this is not WHAT i remember of
Speaker 2: Three and for me to go from that period and
Speaker 2: really be away from The Marine corps In england while
Speaker 2: all of this other stuff was going on and now
Speaker 2: reintegrated with, IT i haven't got a platoon commander THAT
Speaker 2: i can't, stand And i've got some other people in
Speaker 2: the chain of command that are difficult and prickly to work.
Speaker 3: With was just not a good.
Speaker 1: Experience, YEAH i recall that kind of being difficult because you're,
Speaker 1: like maybe it's a sense of, entitlement but also it's
Speaker 1: just culture shock that you're doing these like combat operations
Speaker 1: and then you come back to THE fob and there's
Speaker 1: like a whole one page print out of the rules
Speaker 1: of how you're allowed to use the coffee. Maker it's,
Speaker 1: like this is feels, weird you, know.
Speaker 2: It, does AND i think somewhere along the way we
Speaker 2: just industrialized the whole process of. Fighting, yeah The Marine
Speaker 2: corps does not do peacekeeping very. Well The army doesn't.
Speaker 2: Either in, Fact i'll go so far as to Say,
Speaker 2: america we just. Don't and that's what we were trying to.
Speaker 2: Do you, know you're fighting this asymmetric warfare at the
Speaker 2: same time we're trying to help the transitional government Of,
Speaker 2: iraq and it was just.
Speaker 1: When the MP's are handing out speeding tickets on the. Fobs,
Speaker 1: yeah it's kind of, like what are we doing, here,
Speaker 1: guys what are we?
Speaker 3: Doing oh in the road, GUARD i don't want to talk.
Speaker 1: About, yeah, yeah fucking road. Guard that was like a huge.
Speaker 1: Preoccupation so, YEAH i mean THAT'S i know exactly what
Speaker 1: you're talking.
Speaker 3: About uh and so what uh.
Speaker 1: Where did you land after That iraq.
Speaker 2: Deployment back At First, RECON I i took over as
Speaker 2: the headquarters And service company, Gunny SO i was the
Speaker 2: company gunny FOR h AND. S i did that for
Speaker 2: a little while and then got another platoon and this
Speaker 2: time we were going to go on. Ship SO i
Speaker 2: was a platoon sergeant for A, mew which coincidentally would
Speaker 2: be my last would be my.
Speaker 1: Last that's pretty. COOL i, mean that's pretty rare to
Speaker 1: get multiple, platoons.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah it is at least multiple deploying. Platoons So
Speaker 2: i've HAD i think total five, mews Five Marine Expeditionary unit,
Speaker 2: deployments which are all you, know on, ship AND i
Speaker 2: during that five held every position that you could, have
Speaker 2: so it book ended it very very.
Speaker 1: Nicely, yeah oh you guys were back in The. Pacific, Yep,
Speaker 1: yeah yeah it.
Speaker 2: Was that was a great deployment AND i did some
Speaker 2: things on that deployment THAT i had never been able
Speaker 2: to do, before didn't even know we.
Speaker 3: Could we went to went To.
Speaker 2: MALAYSIA i spent like a week in the jungle with
Speaker 2: Their malaysian, recons just just living on the land and
Speaker 2: eating monkey and squatting over rice and it was it
Speaker 2: was fucking. Cool, yeah that was really. Cool kuwait and
Speaker 2: did a bunch of other.
Speaker 3: Stuff, yeah it was. Fun we had a lot of. Fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah and eventually they sent you to airborne, school yes for.
Speaker 3: Betting so, okay.
Speaker 2: That decision was made WHILE i was on the way
Speaker 2: home from ship on that. Meal at that, Time Fort
Speaker 2: benning was where you sent the like your ship, birds
Speaker 2: you're the people on the nowhere else to, go like
Speaker 2: four years man as a, marine especially as a recomery
Speaker 2: like oh, Wow SO i called up the, monitor and
Speaker 2: the monitor is the person in The Marine corps who
Speaker 2: sends people to their. Jobs like they have the big
Speaker 2: chess board and they're, like this person's up for. Reassignment
Speaker 2: where DO i need this person And i'm AN e,
Speaker 2: seven So i'm not cannon. Fodder i'm gonna pick UP e.
Speaker 3: Eight so the.
Speaker 2: MONITOR i had a good relationship with the, individual and
Speaker 2: HE i see the orders come across the. Computer i'm
Speaker 2: on ship And i'm, like oh. No so the first
Speaker 2: CHANCE i, GOT i picked up the phone AND i call.
Speaker 2: Him it was a very short, conversation BUT i basically,
Speaker 2: said right off the bat LIKE i know THAT i
Speaker 2: have ruffled, feathers BUT i had no IDEA i was
Speaker 2: this much of a.
Speaker 3: Shipbird and he, said slow.
Speaker 2: DOWN i am not sending you To Fort benning because
Speaker 2: you have done anything, wrong because you have not had
Speaker 2: a good, career because you are not in a.
Speaker 3: FIT i need the, opposite he. Said we have been sending.
Speaker 2: The worst of our worst To Fort benning and we
Speaker 2: cannot do it anymore because it's given The core a,
Speaker 2: bit it's given The corps a bad, name and we
Speaker 2: have not had good mentorship and leadership At Fort. Benning
Speaker 2: so if you don't, know The Marine corps had a
Speaker 2: presence On Fort benning Since World War. Two it is
Speaker 2: an agreement we made with The army way back In
Speaker 2: World War, two which basically, says we will allow The
Speaker 2: Marine corps to go through our parachute, school but in,
Speaker 2: return we want one or two of Your marines to help.
Speaker 2: Teach so the reconnaissance community is really the only people
Speaker 2: that are born that are airborne, qualified so it inevitably
Speaker 2: stands to reason that the instructors would be from that.
Speaker 1: Community one of my ris On benning was a staff
Speaker 1: sergeant in The Marine.
Speaker 2: Corps and it's not just The airborne. School so we
Speaker 2: Have Infantry mortar leaders course. There we Have, pathfinder we
Speaker 2: have Jump, master we Have Ranger. School there are air
Speaker 2: assault schools. There Fort benning has a lot of. Schools
Speaker 2: each one of those schools has a marine on the.
Speaker 2: Staff all of those individuals have to be shepherded by.
Speaker 2: Somebody that's what he was asking me to. Do And i'm, Like,
Speaker 2: OKAY i hate, you BUT i will go do.
Speaker 3: This AND i. Did Fort.
Speaker 2: Benning, well it's an interesting, tour you, know from having worked.
Speaker 2: THERE i was part of The Marine. DETACHMENT i was
Speaker 2: The infantry operations chief for The Marine detachment and it
Speaker 2: was very, small there was only twelve of.
Speaker 3: Us it. Grew there was a.
Speaker 2: Time where The tank school that used to be At
Speaker 2: knox was bracked. Closed they put all of that structure
Speaker 2: At Fort. Benning Fort benning changes from The Maneuver center
Speaker 2: of Our Infantry center Of excellence to The Maneuver center
Speaker 2: Of excellence doesn't. Matter so Now Marine corps tanks are.
Speaker 2: There and we went from a twelve twelve individual mom
Speaker 2: and pop detachment to, oh we have ninety people here
Speaker 2: now and that was.
Speaker 1: Interesting, yeah and how was it providing that, coaching teaching
Speaker 1: and mentoring to young marines marines coming through airborne.
Speaker 2: School SO i spent a year as a static line
Speaker 2: jump master instructor and that was the first thing THAT i.
Speaker 1: Did, okay that's.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah after, THAT i went into the office and was
Speaker 2: just you, know permanently in the office as the.
Speaker 3: Operations chief.
Speaker 2: Essentially so part of the duties and responsibilities would be
Speaker 2: too talk to The marines when they showed up for
Speaker 2: the Basic Airborne school or marines that were showing up
Speaker 2: For Ranger, school or it didn't matter.
Speaker 3: What, LIKE i would be the guy that come. BY
Speaker 3: i was a master.
Speaker 2: SERGEANT i picked Up Master sergeant so e eight halfway
Speaker 2: through that, tour AND i would just be you, know
Speaker 2: let's talk a little bit, there young, sergeant so welcome
Speaker 2: to the. Army you were going to be called. Sergeant
Speaker 2: whether you're AN e five or an.
Speaker 3: Eat they all get called.
Speaker 2: Guy, yeah, yeah, Yeah i'd Make i'd make one correction
Speaker 2: today that was my quota as AN e eight or
Speaker 2: AN e. Seven at that, time a lot of the
Speaker 2: soldiers would refer to me as. Sergeant i'm, like not
Speaker 2: a fucking. Sergeant i'm a gunnery sergeant or a master.
Speaker 2: Surgant but one correction today after, THAT i reached my,
Speaker 2: quota AND i would just like help manage. Expectations there
Speaker 2: were a lot Of marines that would come through the
Speaker 2: schools and uh As. Marines for, example we don't wear
Speaker 2: A pt gear in the mess.
Speaker 3: Hall we just.
Speaker 2: Don't it's horribly. Forbidden nobody would ever think to do.
Speaker 2: That but in the army after, whatever you're gonna go
Speaker 2: eat in. Ptgear and so sometimes you'd have an over
Speaker 2: zealous staff sergeant like everyone's going back to change And
Speaker 2: i'd have to be, listen, dude they can't do. That
Speaker 2: there's a, schedule they don't have time for. That just
Speaker 2: leave the little guys. Alone things like, that or you,
Speaker 2: know there WAS i don't even know IF i should say.
Speaker 2: This there was a senior enlisted marine who failed the
Speaker 2: physical fitness test for the basic airborne.
Speaker 3: Course, yikes, yeah it was.
Speaker 2: Good he didn't lied to his parent unit and said
Speaker 2: that he didn't, fail that there was an administrative, error
Speaker 2: that he was being recycled to the next. Class SO
Speaker 2: i had the unpleasant conversation with his unit to, say,
Speaker 2: yeah that's that's not what.
Speaker 3: Happened he didn't come.
Speaker 1: Back oddly, ENOUGH i always found The marines going through
Speaker 1: those schools to be pretty squared. AWAY i think it
Speaker 1: might have been the skills that needed adults suit. Provision they,
Speaker 1: did and they stopped going through that sea back.
Speaker 3: In the, day.
Speaker 1: You. REMEMBER i don't know if this was still going,
Speaker 1: On and it sounds so bizarre to say this out.
Speaker 1: Loud people watching this are probably, like what the. Hell
Speaker 1: when we went through airborne, school they would like check
Speaker 1: to make sure that you weren't wearing underwear under your
Speaker 1: pts because they're, like we have to monitor how hot
Speaker 1: or over heat exhaustion or something like, that and so
Speaker 1: they would do these like random underwear spot checks on.
Speaker 1: Guys and one of the seals decided to wear lingerie
Speaker 1: underneath HIS pts one, day so they check. It he's
Speaker 1: wearing like a thong From victoria's secret or.
Speaker 2: SOMETHING i went through The Basic Airborne course as a,
Speaker 2: STUDENT i want to, say in two thousand and. Two
Speaker 2: it was one of the first THINGS i did After,
Speaker 2: afghanistan and then Free fall school the next, year and
Speaker 2: we went through and there were still seals, there and
Speaker 2: it was, LIKE i look back now AND i think to,
Speaker 2: myself what a freaking joke it.
Speaker 3: Must have been for those.
Speaker 2: Guys, yeah absolutely to finish buts and be like, really,
Speaker 2: yeah this and they've proven clearly because they're They're parachute
Speaker 2: school is one week now that it doesn't take three Weeks.
Speaker 3: Yeah to jump out of the. Plane.
Speaker 1: Yeah that really feels like a relic of like The
Speaker 1: World War. Two it so. Does and and there were complaints.
Speaker 1: Too IS i remember as we were getting out of
Speaker 1: the army they were trying to change things because you
Speaker 1: remember to do a, jump a training, jump that's an
Speaker 1: old day. Event, yeah to come in and do your
Speaker 1: sustained airborne, training drop parachutes, jpips go down to the
Speaker 1: hangar rig. Up, yeah it's like a full day. Event it's,
Speaker 1: like doesn't really need to.
Speaker 3: Be it's a lot of.
Speaker 2: Work AND i gotta SAY i still think, tactically well,
Speaker 2: strategically does an airborne unit have?
Speaker 3: Worth? Yes but less and. LESS i, mean if you
Speaker 3: think about.
Speaker 2: What the need for the eighty Second airborne, is AND
Speaker 2: i say that with all due respect to those, individuals
Speaker 2: but can you envision a battlefield where we would need
Speaker 2: to parachute and hold ground and hold in season airfield
Speaker 2: for Fallow on forces in twenty twenty six with what
Speaker 2: we know about taking place In ukraine and the drone
Speaker 2: threat that is permeated. WARFARE i don't, KNOW i don't.
Speaker 2: Know maybe, yeah, WELL i mean this is.
Speaker 1: Sacriligious but you also have to, ask, like do we
Speaker 1: really need all of these guys who are free fall
Speaker 1: and dive? Qualified, Yeah, like you, know the amount of
Speaker 1: people that we qualify on it versus how many combat
Speaker 1: jumps we've done during the. War how many combat dives
Speaker 1: have we done during the?
Speaker 2: WAR i, Mean AND i spent the bulk of my
Speaker 2: time In recon on the dive, team you. Know SO
Speaker 2: i went to dive school in ninety seven AND i
Speaker 2: spent the next god knows how many years diving with
Speaker 2: all manner of equipment and like the same thing that
Speaker 2: you trained me to, do there's now an autonomous system
Speaker 2: that can do better without any. Risk so you're. RIGHT
Speaker 2: i don't know if it's really required. ANYMORE i think
Speaker 2: The Marine corps sees it because they're drastically changing what
Speaker 2: their units are going to look.
Speaker 1: Like. Yeah in somewhere around this, timeframe when is The
Speaker 1: Generation kill was turned INTO hbo.
Speaker 3: Series two thousand and.
Speaker 1: Eight, yeah so it's around this.
Speaker 2: Timeframe did you get kind of hit a second time
Speaker 2: by THE i? DID i did this Time it is
Speaker 2: not as pejorative as it was in three because he
Speaker 2: wrote those three articles and then it was turned into a.
Speaker 2: Book that book was optioned BY. Hbo NOW hbo is producing.
Speaker 2: It So i'm In fallujah IN o seven and the
Speaker 2: series is in production and then comes out IN o.
Speaker 2: Eight SO i come back from that seven deployment almost
Speaker 2: to the first episode being released. ALMOST i helped a
Speaker 2: little bit in post, production did some technical advising on the,
Speaker 2: show you, know made some trips To hollywood And Corror bank,
Speaker 2: actually and did some. Work Met David, simon met who
Speaker 2: at that time was very well or, sorry it was
Speaker 2: Unknown alexander right, like hung out with him for.
Speaker 3: A, while did some press. Stuff BUT.
Speaker 2: I didn't really get hit with the negative. SIDE i
Speaker 2: did get hit with a lot of just the other,
Speaker 2: side the love the show or love the, book or you, know.
Speaker 3: Did this?
Speaker 2: Happen did that? Happen did he really say? This what
Speaker 2: did you think? Of Captain? America and a lot of
Speaker 2: these guys at that time were still, in they were still,
Speaker 2: around and they were, Like i'm not gonna slander or
Speaker 2: bad mouth or say one thing or. Another he's over,
Speaker 2: there you can go ask. HIM i learned my, lesson you,
Speaker 2: know there was a bulk of time between three and
Speaker 2: eight for me to be, like, Yeah i'm, Wiser i'm,
Speaker 2: OLDER i am going to handle this one differently this. Time,
Speaker 2: SO i, mean discretion was definitely the better part Of.
Speaker 1: Valor was it a little surreal seeing those experiences on the? Screen?
Speaker 2: Yes, YES i read the scripts early. On the technical
Speaker 2: advisor on that series was a good friend of. Mine
Speaker 2: he had access to the. Scripts, well the first technical
Speaker 2: advisor he bowed out and another friend of mine ended
Speaker 2: up taking. Over but point, IS i read the scripts
Speaker 2: AND i saw what they were trying to, do AND
Speaker 2: i thought it was pretty, good, right but you don't
Speaker 2: know what it's going to look, like, Right and SO
Speaker 2: i see it AND i, thought, oh, okay WELL i look.
Speaker 2: Good the rest of you GUYS i don't know, about
Speaker 2: but they got this when they nailed, me.
Speaker 3: Clearly it was, very very. Surreal one of.
Speaker 2: The things those, like even Before Generation kill was even a.
Speaker 2: THOUGHT i don't know how it was for your, experiences
Speaker 2: but there were times where when you're just bored and
Speaker 2: sitting around as a platoon or a team or just a,
Speaker 2: couple you would sort of what, if like if this
Speaker 2: was a, movie who would play? You never in a
Speaker 2: million years DID i actually think that would come to.
Speaker 2: Light and it, did and so you, know THERE i.
Speaker 2: Am i'm actually At Evan wright's house In. California i'm,
Speaker 2: there my girlfriend at the time is, there And Alexander
Speaker 2: scarsguard is, there and we're watching it In evan's living.
Speaker 2: Room we're watching a pre like a pre RELEASED dvd
Speaker 2: of the first, episode you, know and it's still got
Speaker 2: the editing code scrolling, through and it was, like, yeah all,
Speaker 2: right this is not. Bad this is not. BAD i
Speaker 2: think this will play. WELL i think it'll do it,
Speaker 2: justice AND i think it.
Speaker 1: Did what do you think has been like the kind
Speaker 1: of legacy of the series because people talk about it
Speaker 1: to this. DAY i, MEAN i think it resonated with
Speaker 1: a lot of.
Speaker 3: Folks you, KNOW i think we kind of hit on it.
Speaker 2: Earlier there has not been a chronology or, capturing an
Speaker 2: oral history or written history about what was it like
Speaker 2: for The american soldier And i'm using that term universally
Speaker 2: to go to. War we just didn't have anything because
Speaker 2: we hadn't had a. War you could argue ninety. One
Speaker 2: but if anyone says jar, Head i'm just gonna punch
Speaker 2: him in the.
Speaker 3: Face that book. Sucks i'm, sorry the book. Sucks the
Speaker 3: movie was Whod Three kings was?
Speaker 2: Good Three Kings actually Three kings is pretty. Good, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: YEAH i like that. Movie but there wasn't. Anything we
Speaker 2: just and this was. It now there has been numerous
Speaker 2: things since, then but you, know Maybe i'm a little.
Speaker 2: BIASED i don't think anything captures just the raw, grit
Speaker 2: the absolute truth of what is it like for a
Speaker 2: young man to go to war in this generation or
Speaker 2: in that. Generation nothing else captures. It AND i think
Speaker 2: it's still to this day fairly representative of what it
Speaker 2: is like for that.
Speaker 1: Generation, yeah and it's important to communicate that to the. Public,
Speaker 1: yes who largely don't serve in the. Military that is
Speaker 1: another interesting.
Speaker 2: Demographic less than POINT i want to, say point one
Speaker 2: point zero one percent of our, population where's the uniform
Speaker 2: at any, time the lowest it's been in the history
Speaker 2: of The United. States and even less of that is
Speaker 2: actually in theater exchanging. Gunfire SO i do feel like
Speaker 2: your point is. Valid this is, transparency this is, empathy
Speaker 2: this is. UNDERSTANDING i have never been one of these
Speaker 2: people to, say you, know the veteran needs a. Handout,
Speaker 2: no but just understand what it's. Like put yourself in
Speaker 2: the shoes of somebody who is, eighteen nineteen years, old
Speaker 2: twenty years, old away from, home maybe for the first,
Speaker 2: time and in a foreign land and they are picking
Speaker 2: up arms against an unknown aggressor and.
Speaker 3: Seeing SO i think it's. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah and for, you what came after your glorious stint
Speaker 1: At Fort, Benning.
Speaker 2: GEORGIA i got another call from the, monitor this time
Speaker 2: the last call THAT i would get from. Him now
Speaker 2: we talked all the. TIME i MEAN i just talked
Speaker 2: to him a couple of months ago and he's long since.
Speaker 2: Retired he basically, said what do you want to. Do do
Speaker 2: you want to stay in The Marine corps or do
Speaker 2: you want to get? Out and, NOW i had never
Speaker 2: intended to serve longer than twenty. Years that was always
Speaker 2: my goal twenty years to the, day And i'm done
Speaker 2: nothing against The Marine. CORPS i just wanted to do something. Else,
Speaker 2: yeah but you got to do your Twenty if once
Speaker 2: you're past, fourteen you're, committed that's sort of that fork
Speaker 2: in the.
Speaker 3: Road and he, says do you want to stay? In
Speaker 3: AND i said.
Speaker 2: No he, says, OKAY i need you to do one
Speaker 2: more thing then THEN i would like you to go To.
Speaker 2: QUANTICO i want you to work At raids And recon
Speaker 2: and if you're not going to get, promoted that's where
Speaker 2: you're going to. Go said, Okay i'll do, that AND
Speaker 2: i did and also very interesting career ender never expected
Speaker 2: to end up. There raids And recon is the group
Speaker 2: that is in charge of acquisitions for the reconnaissance community
Speaker 2: and in some cases The Marine corps as a. Whole
Speaker 2: so if you don't, know The army has a, version
Speaker 2: The navy has a, version The Air force has a.
Speaker 2: Version there is a group of people and it is
Speaker 2: a mix of civilian and active duty whose job it
Speaker 2: is to buy you. Things that uniform that you're, wearing
Speaker 2: that pack that you're, carrying that rifle you're, shooting all
Speaker 2: of those things had to go through some kind of
Speaker 2: a purchase process where there is a need. Identified we
Speaker 2: need a new. Gun, okay tell me about this new.
Speaker 3: Gun what are the?
Speaker 2: Capabilities describe? It what do you want it to? Do
Speaker 2: or maybe there's a there's a training, gap there's who. Knows,
Speaker 2: well you've got to have a group of smart, people you, know, engineers,
Speaker 2: logistitions subject matter experts who, say, oh well they need
Speaker 2: a new gun and it has to fit this. Criteria,
Speaker 2: well then that means it must be you get the.
Speaker 2: Idea so that's WHAT i. DID i was a project
Speaker 2: officer For raids And. RECON i had a PORTFOLIO i
Speaker 2: was in charge of which were boats and, engines breaching,
Speaker 2: equipment and hearst, Equipment hurst, helicopter wrote suspension. Training so
Speaker 2: all of The army's air assault, equipment The Marine corps
Speaker 2: we call it. Hearst so if you're doing, fast if
Speaker 2: you're doing, repelling if you're doing anything like, that that
Speaker 2: suite of equipment we would label AS. HURST i was
Speaker 2: in charge of it. Breaching so if you're doing, explosive, mechanical,
Speaker 2: thermal or ballistic, breaching all of the, tools, techniques, tactics
Speaker 2: and PROCEDURES i would be in charge. Of, so for,
Speaker 2: example it's all about battery powered these. Days the quickie.
Speaker 2: Saw i'm sure you're familiar with. It it was gas.
Speaker 2: Powered those are, great but when you're using it in
Speaker 2: confined spaces like on a, ship that engine that'll fill
Speaker 2: up a space pretty. Quick what about an electric?
Speaker 3: Saw? Oh? Interesting how do we recharge? It what is
Speaker 3: the battery?
Speaker 2: Life does it have enough horsepower to get through a
Speaker 2: bulkhead of a? Ship all that, Stuff but predominantly it was.
Speaker 2: Boats The Marine corps uses an inflatable craft called a.
Speaker 2: Zodiac you guys do, Too everybody uses. It it's kind of old.
Speaker 2: Technology there's new stuff out. There SO i worked on
Speaker 2: trying to bring that to. Market and then a lot
Speaker 2: of parachute. Testing go out To yuma and you, know
Speaker 2: get new data for new glide, data release data for the,
Speaker 2: parachutes or a lot of underwater propulsion, testing a lot
Speaker 2: of diving stuff like, that and then just going out
Speaker 2: to industry and talking to people and going to trade
Speaker 2: shows and finding new.
Speaker 3: Things and that must have.
Speaker 1: Been actually a pretty good gig to help you transition
Speaker 1: into the civilian. WORLD i don't know what you did in,
Speaker 1: retirement BUT.
Speaker 3: I worked after The Marine. Corps do you want to jump? Ahead?
Speaker 1: Yeah, YEAH i, mean unless there's something in between.
Speaker 2: The, two that not REALLY i got out of The
Speaker 2: Marine corps on A, friday and on A, SATURDAY i was.
Speaker 3: Flying to my new. Job.
Speaker 2: Yeah SO i spent the last about ten years in
Speaker 2: the intelligence community after The Marine. CORPS a good friend
Speaker 2: of mine was already doing the. Job and it's kind
Speaker 2: of one of those jobs where it's word of. Mouth
Speaker 2: there's no website you can go, to there's no resume
Speaker 2: you can, send there's no application.
Speaker 3: Process it's just, like, hey you're interested in doing some, Work, yeah,
Speaker 3: sure what's the? Job can't tell?
Speaker 1: You?
Speaker 3: Okay WOULD i like?
Speaker 5: It?
Speaker 3: Yeah, well can you tell me anything about? It? Now
Speaker 3: you want to do? It, okay let's try. It and
Speaker 3: it was like.
Speaker 2: That my name was, dropped a phone call was, made
Speaker 2: interview was, done and then assessment in, selection which is no.
Speaker 2: Joke there's been two schools in my life WHERE i
Speaker 2: THOUGHT i am not going to. Graduate dive school is
Speaker 2: one of. THEM i never unpacked my bag from dive.
Speaker 2: SCHOOL i went From, Okinawa japan in ninety seven To Panama, City,
Speaker 2: florida to The naval Divid salving And Trading unit For
Speaker 2: Marine Combatant. DIVE i loved that school AND i could
Speaker 2: swim like a, fish BUT i could not run to
Speaker 2: save my. Life and they had extremely rigid pet, standards
Speaker 2: And i'm, LIKE i am not going to pass this.
Speaker 2: Course i've unpacked my bag AND i, graduated AND i
Speaker 2: loved it and it was. Great but the other thing
Speaker 2: THAT i thought there's no effing WAY i was going
Speaker 2: to pass was the assessment and selection for my last.
Speaker 2: Job the shooting standards are. INCREDIBLE i, mean there were
Speaker 2: guys from pick a, unit doesn't, matter all the letters
Speaker 2: that you could think, of they had guys there from
Speaker 2: all of. Those you have a seventy eight percent attrition.
Speaker 3: Rate it's.
Speaker 2: Hard And i'm not a, shooter not LIKE i can
Speaker 2: shoot the long, gun but my pistol skills are just
Speaker 2: average and they couldn't be. Average and SO i was
Speaker 2: really worried about, it AND i had about three months to,
Speaker 2: prepare AND i spent a lot of time doing a
Speaker 2: lot of shooting and a lot of things.
Speaker 3: Wrong and the organization sent me to a school in
Speaker 3: it doesn't.
Speaker 1: Matter like A Mid south or something like. That you,
Speaker 1: said it not.
Speaker 2: Me that changed my entire pistol. Approach if not For Mid,
Speaker 2: south probably wouldn't have. Passed BECAUSE i learned a way
Speaker 2: of shooting THAT i wasn't aware, of and it completely.
Speaker 1: Changed what was that thing that?
Speaker 3: CHANGED i have a tendency to.
Speaker 2: MUZZLE i always have BECAUSE i learned how to shoot
Speaker 2: with very very large caliber. Guns it WAS i never
Speaker 2: really had a proper pistol. Education the long guns are.
Speaker 2: Different SO i learned how to shoot on some guns
Speaker 2: that were just like nobody learns how.
Speaker 3: To shoot with a four to fifty four.
Speaker 2: Casule i'm quoting a movie that Was Harley davidson and
Speaker 2: The Marlborough, man but big, guns and SO i have
Speaker 2: a tendency to muzzle a little. Bit they taught me
Speaker 2: a way to press that support hand palm into the,
Speaker 2: gripswell and it helped so much so THAT i suddenly
Speaker 2: started bringing my grip in, nice AND i JUST i
Speaker 2: naturally offset a little. BIT i, KNOW i shoot low and,
Speaker 2: left SO i offset a little bit. Right AND i
Speaker 2: was consistently making a. Boxes it's all ipsick target for.
Speaker 2: Scoring so Suddenly i'm getting a's were BEFORE i was
Speaker 2: getting B's and, yeah it, cool it Was, yeah it was.
Speaker 2: Great and then the, speeds like you draw from the
Speaker 2: holster and you're talking about two rounds in less than
Speaker 2: two seconds from the, draw and that you have to
Speaker 2: be in THE a.
Speaker 3: BOX i, mean that's.
Speaker 2: Fast AND i just didn't do anything like that. Before
Speaker 2: it wasn't THAT i, couldn't and OBVIOUSLY i did BECAUSE i,
Speaker 2: passed but there was a learning curve.
Speaker 3: There needless to.
Speaker 2: Say it was incredibly it was incredibly. Hard and THEN
Speaker 2: i watched a lot of people wash, out dudes that
Speaker 2: come from communities that we would we always would emulate, like,
Speaker 2: wow you're you know you're from that.
Speaker 3: GROUP i thought for sure You, nope.
Speaker 1: Was there any like additional training you had to go
Speaker 1: through after.
Speaker 2: That there wasn't anything THAT i had to go, through
Speaker 2: BUT i was afforded the opportunity to and some of
Speaker 2: the best, TRAINING i mean, amazing and the people that
Speaker 2: you work with are really fantastic. Individuals and you talked
Speaker 2: about transition and While quantico that last book ended tour
Speaker 2: in The Marine corps was fantastic for helping me transition
Speaker 2: into the private, SECTOR i promise you what really did
Speaker 2: it IS i found myself in an organization of all
Speaker 2: prior military and in a semi military. Environment so, no
Speaker 2: there wasn't a rank, structure but it's, like, oh you
Speaker 2: served here and you served, there AND i remember that,
Speaker 2: part and you remember, this and you know all of
Speaker 2: the services from ALL i, mean pick AN sf unit
Speaker 2: and that's who you're all now. With but you're wearn't
Speaker 2: playing clothes and there's no, rank and you're all doing
Speaker 2: the same job and it's. Fun so there's a little
Speaker 2: bit of measuring, still but not. Much and that's what
Speaker 2: really made the trend positions so.
Speaker 1: Seamless, yeah and you said you did that for ten,
Speaker 1: Years like what Was how did you like the? Job,
Speaker 1: oh it's.
Speaker 2: Fantastic not only were the travel opportunities, incredible but you're
Speaker 2: working with some people who are absolutely at the tip
Speaker 2: of the sphere and you're helping accomplish a mission that
Speaker 2: is really important to national. Security you're helping support real world,
Speaker 2: operations and so there's relevancy a lot of the things
Speaker 2: that we do in The Marine corps.
Speaker 3: Or The navy or The Air.
Speaker 2: Force it doesn't, matter you're not going to see the
Speaker 2: effects of for years to. Come LIKE i have no
Speaker 2: idea in my heart of hearts If iraq is a
Speaker 2: better country today because of two thousand and.
Speaker 3: Three i'd like to think that it, is BUT i
Speaker 3: can't prove. It it's hard to prove a, negative, Right.
Speaker 2: BUT i can emphatically say THAT i have, helped helped
Speaker 2: been a part Of i'm not taking ownership of, it
Speaker 2: BUT i have helped support operations THAT I i know
Speaker 2: had immediate impact to national, security and that's very very, gratifying.
Speaker 1: Was, it, Uh speaking of, transitions was it difficult for
Speaker 1: you to transition from being a recon marine To i'm
Speaker 1: guessing in this case more of like A quindestine will
Speaker 1: visibility sort of.
Speaker 2: Framework it was very easy because it was a lot
Speaker 2: of the stuff THAT i did wearing a uniform or
Speaker 2: sometimes plain, clothes but in the military under title ten
Speaker 2: and now it's a different, title but it's a lot
Speaker 2: of the same mo.
Speaker 3: More so in many.
Speaker 2: Respects one of the things THAT i think it really
Speaker 2: solidified for me is just how much more vulnerable or
Speaker 2: less safe you are the more that you try to
Speaker 2: make yourself, safe, right, right.
Speaker 3: Right the more armor you're sticking on the side of the.
Speaker 2: Vehicles, yeah all of, it the convoy, operations the you,
Speaker 2: know the SOPs raising your.
Speaker 3: Profile you're just raising your.
Speaker 2: Profile and, wow it wasn't a foreign concept to. ME
Speaker 2: i don't THINK i saw it illustrated as much WHEN
Speaker 2: i left The Marine corps and worked in the government
Speaker 2: sector and, went, oh, wow The State department's rolling around
Speaker 2: in five level sevens all in a convoy with toastraps hanging. Out,
Speaker 2: yeah you guys are fucking. Targets that kind of highlighted
Speaker 2: it for.
Speaker 3: Me and so.
Speaker 2: There were a lot of, takeaways a lot of things
Speaker 2: THAT i think the reconnaissance training and all of those
Speaker 2: years in uniform helped me.
Speaker 1: Along the way in.
Speaker 3: That next Walk. Alive, Yeah and, honestly.
Speaker 2: It was really really easy to go from being a
Speaker 2: master surgeon and eight in The Marine corps with all
Speaker 2: of the courtesies and customers and Now i'm Just i'm
Speaker 2: up private, Again, like no, Problem i'll clean that for.
Speaker 2: YOU i will absolutely get you another cup of. Coffee
Speaker 2: dry cleaning me picked.
Speaker 3: Up i'm on.
Speaker 2: It it was, like it was kind of cool again
Speaker 2: to have nothing to worry about and just individual.
Speaker 1: Efforts and you did that for ten. Years what kind
Speaker 1: of convinced you to move on to the next.
Speaker 2: Thing nothing convinced. Me somebody took that away from. Me
Speaker 2: SO i had been working on the training side of
Speaker 2: the house AND i loved, it and it was. Incredible
Speaker 2: probably the best JOB i have ever. HAD i, like
Speaker 2: and that is not. HYPERBOLE i worked in a very
Speaker 2: small group with some amazing, dudes and we had some
Speaker 2: great freedoms and we designed some fantastic. TRAINING i just
Speaker 2: happened to have the misfortune of telling The emperor he
Speaker 2: had no. Clothes there was an individual at my last.
Speaker 2: Job let's, SEE i want to protect the, name so
Speaker 2: we will call this Person. Skyler skyler is a piece of.
Speaker 3: Shit there.
Speaker 2: Was, yeah SO i had a personality conflict AND i
Speaker 2: Was it wasn't. Egregious but when the individual transitioned from
Speaker 2: the position in WHICH i met him to a position of,
Speaker 2: authority he, decided, like your services are no longer.
Speaker 3: REQUIRED i, said, okay no.
Speaker 2: PROBLEM i get, It and in, hindsight it's probably good
Speaker 2: because it afforded me the opportunity to do, this to
Speaker 2: do the Carry on, podcast to have conversations with individuals
Speaker 2: such as yourself about my story about what comes, next
Speaker 2: and then all of the projects and things that Carry
Speaker 2: on allow for BECAUSE i couldn't do it in my last.
Speaker 1: Job yeah. Right they didn't want you being like. Public.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no you would have had to have asked permission
Speaker 2: for each and every you, know podcast ahead of, time
Speaker 2: for each and every all of.
Speaker 3: It but that's actually interesting BECAUSE.
Speaker 1: I also got to see how to phrase. This there's
Speaker 1: a guy that once worked for me and wrote for,
Speaker 1: me AND i think he did the same job you,
Speaker 1: did but the client did not give a shit as
Speaker 1: long as he wasn't writing about the. Client, yeah you're
Speaker 1: writing about The Marine. Corps they're, cool no.
Speaker 3: Problem.
Speaker 2: YEAH i think it's part and. Parcel due to my system's,
Speaker 2: access there's rules for individuals that have access to the
Speaker 2: system and those that. Don't so if you have A
Speaker 2: tssci and you have the ability to log into these classified,
Speaker 2: systems you're under much greater restrictions than if you.
Speaker 3: Don't AND i think that's.
Speaker 1: That could make.
Speaker 3: Sense that's.
Speaker 2: Why, yeah just by virtue of doing the, job you
Speaker 2: are still, restricted but not to the degree that somebody
Speaker 2: who is doing the. Job oh and you can log
Speaker 2: into the. System, yeah they want to make sure that
Speaker 2: you're you, know not talking about things that you, shouldn't
Speaker 2: sharing locations that you. Shouldn't AND i get.
Speaker 3: IT i get.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: Man there's a lot of people that currently hold tsscis
Speaker 2: that SHOULDN'T i, think, yeah one point two, million and
Speaker 2: we've seen through the.
Speaker 3: News, yeah some of you guys don't need.
Speaker 1: It, yeah the military especially hands them out like. Candy they.
Speaker 2: Do and it's funny because WHEN i left The Marine,
Speaker 2: CORPS i had A i had A ts and THEN
Speaker 2: i went to the new job and they're, like have
Speaker 2: you ever held A ts?
Speaker 3: FOUR i said, Yes like who have you had it?
Speaker 2: WITH i, said you. Know The Marine corps is, like
Speaker 2: oh that's so. Cute, yeah we don't fucking care. That
Speaker 2: we don't recognize, That like they don't care at, All
Speaker 2: like we're starting from. Scratch and THEN i GUESS i
Speaker 2: kind of realized, like, oh there's different degrees of like, wow,
Speaker 2: OKAY i get it, Now, well, yeah.
Speaker 1: They don't put military guys through a lifestyle poll is
Speaker 1: one of the big, differences is.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Huge so, yeah when you go through, that you're definitely
Speaker 2: like put through the.
Speaker 3: Ringer.
Speaker 1: YEAH i don't know how most military guys can even pass.
Speaker 3: That, yeah, yeah, ABSOLUTELY i.
Speaker 1: DON'T i.
Speaker 2: DON'T i passed, mind so it can be. Done but, yeah.
Speaker 1: Interesting so since you've left that position behind or helped
Speaker 1: out of that, position what's been consuming your time since? Then,
Speaker 1: WELL i have some side. BUSINESSES i have a distillery cool, yep,
Speaker 1: yep single malt and a. BOURBON i do have a
Speaker 1: small gun business, manufacturing AND i can do modifications and
Speaker 1: then from whole metal ar fifteen's eight. Ks SO i
Speaker 1: do that AND i Always i've had this fabrication.
Speaker 3: Yep oh.
Speaker 2: Wow and Then i'm back in school from a master's,
Speaker 2: degree and that's taking up a lot of my. TIME
Speaker 2: i do have, children they take up a lot of my.
Speaker 2: Time and then the podcast and the story and the.
Speaker 2: Conversation i'm very motivated and passionate to shepherd that and
Speaker 2: grow and continue To, yeah see where it, goes have
Speaker 2: conversations with.
Speaker 1: Folks tell us where people can go to.
Speaker 3: Find the distillery and the gun. Business they both have.
Speaker 2: Websites the distillery is Called Raider. Distilling it is an
Speaker 2: homage to The Marine raiders Of World War. TWO i
Speaker 2: was not creating that title because Of, marsk BUT i
Speaker 2: certainly don't mean any disrespect to The marsk. Folks this the,
Speaker 2: bottle the, website the the the history of the, distillery
Speaker 2: if you. Will it's all goes back To World War
Speaker 2: two and Those marine. Raiders so that's WHY i named
Speaker 2: it WHAT i named, it the gun, business very. Innocuous
Speaker 2: it's It's bravo two to One tactical and it's named
Speaker 2: so because of my platoon In iraq and three it,
Speaker 2: was you, Know Bravo, company Second, Platoon team. One So
Speaker 2: bravo two to One tactical is the, website so folks.
Speaker 3: Can go if they.
Speaker 5: Want, yeah and we spoke about it a little bit
Speaker 5: early on in the, podcast but the Carry on, Podcast,
Speaker 5: yes and tell people again where they can go to find.
Speaker 2: That they can go To Brad coolbert dot. Us, okay
Speaker 2: really easy to. Remember Brad colbert Dot us is the
Speaker 2: splash page for the, website and then from there it
Speaker 2: talks about all of the different styles of interviews or.
Speaker 2: Videos that we, do and there's a variety of things
Speaker 2: that people may identify, with but our bread and butter
Speaker 2: is our weekly sit rep we call. It so we
Speaker 2: talk about some current events about an hour hour and
Speaker 2: a half a discussion with news and stories that are
Speaker 2: relevant to.
Speaker 1: Today you got anything coming up that you're particularly excited
Speaker 1: about that you tease a little.
Speaker 3: Bit, well we were.
Speaker 2: Working our way through The Generation Kill. Platoon we've had
Speaker 2: several individuals come. On we are going to Have Rudy
Speaker 2: reyes next. Month people seem to be very excited About.
Speaker 2: Rudy he is a individual that was portrayed in the.
Speaker 2: Book he actually portrays himself in the. Show he is
Speaker 2: on television. Now he does one of those Special forces Shows,
Speaker 2: cool so he.
Speaker 3: Seems to be very.
Speaker 2: Popular we're gonna have him on next month In, july
Speaker 2: SO i think people will probably be excited about, that
Speaker 2: and we're just going to continue to. Work Nate fick
Speaker 2: is going to come on the. Show he was the
Speaker 2: platoon commander for that. Time and we have a few,
Speaker 2: others all of which are. Forthcoming and we also have authors,
Speaker 2: too regularly have. Authors we've had a couple and they're
Speaker 2: coming up. Soon Jody fletcher has a book. Out Andy
Speaker 2: pritty has a book, out all of which are available
Speaker 2: in future episodes coming.
Speaker 3: Up super. Cool, yeah and.
Speaker 1: We'll have links down the description for people who are
Speaker 1: watching this on YouTube or podcast or. Whatever we'll have
Speaker 1: links to all of these places before we get going. Today,
Speaker 1: brad is there anything that you know you WISH i had,
Speaker 1: Asked ANYTHING i failed to cover here you'd like to
Speaker 1: put out?
Speaker 3: There.
Speaker 2: UH i liked the opportunity to come on the show
Speaker 2: and talk about some of the the you, know the
Speaker 2: history THAT i have been witnessed to and some of
Speaker 2: the stories that have brought me WHERE i. Am but,
Speaker 2: honestly the one thing THAT i Feel i've always tried
Speaker 2: to let people know Is i'm standing on the shoulders of.
Speaker 2: GIANTS i love the fact that people identify with The
Speaker 2: Generation kill. Story they may have been inspired by myself
Speaker 2: or others that are depicted in that, story BUT i
Speaker 2: still look back to the men from you, Know vietnam
Speaker 2: Or World War, two and there's not that many left
Speaker 2: less and less every day and the things that they.
Speaker 2: Did i've been To, Normandy i've seen the, Sand i've
Speaker 2: touched those pill boxes that The American rangers had to
Speaker 2: Cliff assault to get TO.
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything the shores Of Triple The Marine
Speaker 1: corps been around for a.
Speaker 2: While, Yeah i've been to what was The Beroot barracks In.
Speaker 2: Lebanon it's now an. Airport but Like i've seen that.
Speaker 2: Soil i've been to the beaches At. TRIPOLI i have
Speaker 2: touched that. Sand all of these, PLACES i stand on
Speaker 2: the shoulders of. GIANTS i am so humbled to have
Speaker 2: been a part of The Marine corps, story but also
Speaker 2: just the story of all of us who have. Sacrificed
Speaker 2: my hat's off to.
Speaker 1: Them, yeah that's. Great, well best of luck with the
Speaker 1: podcast the. Businesses it sounds like you're doing good.
Speaker 3: STUFF i appreciate, it my. Friend thank you for having
Speaker 3: me on your.
Speaker 1: Show, yeah thanks for making the trip out here To New.
Speaker 3: York it's my. Pleasure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really so thank you everyone who joined us, today
Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys next. Time, hey, GUYS i
Speaker 1: want to take a moment to tell you about The
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Speaker 3: There the link will be down the description